1. ATTENTION returning members. If you are coming here from the old forum for the first time, you will need to reset you password. However, we had an email problem getting password reset links set out to a lot of the email addresses. That problem is temporarily rectified but IF you still have an issue, email me direct at info@thebuildingcodeforum.com and I will give you a temporary password.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by clicking here: Upgrades
    Dismiss Notice

Townhome Fire Separation

Discussion in 'Residential Fire Codes' started by Joe Torre, Mar 25, 2019.

  1. Joe Torre

    Joe Torre Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2019
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello
    I have a set of 4-2 story town homes, each unit's first floor has a "loggia" or "porch" area that is adjacent to the next units finished 1st floor (at the property line). The second floor covers the whole first floor including the loggia. The 2nd floor walls at the prop. line we are showing UL#373 2-hr wall. My question is the fire separation at the 1st floor level where the loggias meet the finished 1st floor. Since the loggia does not have a wall that abbuts the other first floor, what kind of separation is needed? We were showing a 1-hr (UL#305) but the city's reviewer has kicked back the drawings. See attached drawings.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    https://ibb.co/7gH5M3m
    https://ibb.co/QH8mt2B
    https://ibb.co/D1yzhxw

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. cda

    cda Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    15,608
    Likes Received:
    950
    Welcome

    There are more knowledgeable people that will answer your question

    You might be running into the ,,, no opening within it’s either four or five feet of a firewall
     
  3. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    327
    Likes Received:
    142
    What was the exact verbiage of the correction the plans examiner provided? Will help point you in the direction your examiner wants you to fix this.

    From my perspective, I see several issues:
    1. Opening within 3-ft of lot line
    2. 1st floor wall should be a 2-hr rated wall all the way up
    3. How are you going to run kitchen hood out? Cannot go through rated walls
     
    DuaneW likes this.
  4. Joe Torre

    Joe Torre Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2019
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you for replying. The reviewer has been a pain to work with, I went and met with in person and he DID NOT want to show me where we were not in compliance, he said "you have a code book" - I wanted to kick him lol.....his email said the following:

    1. Please see Table R302.1(1) and address the fire-resistance rating for projects greater than or equal to 2 feet to less than 5 feet from the property line (as shown on the updated architectural site plans) as per R302.1(1) and its associated tables of the 2012 IRC with Georgia Amendments
     
  5. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    327
    Likes Received:
    142
    Ok....he has kept it vague, most likely because he is not sure of your design. But he is correct, you do have several issues.

    Are you just unsure how to make the necessary corrections?
     
  6. Joe Torre

    Joe Torre Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2019
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, I guess what we are unsure is if that demising wall needed to be 2-hr since the upstairs above the loggia is supported by 2 posts and no wall....>Thx
     
  7. mtlogcabin

    mtlogcabin Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2009
    Messages:
    7,108
    Likes Received:
    745
    Your loggia is projecting into the required fire separations and therefore needs to be 1-hour rated from the underside in accordance with Table 302.1(1)
    Maybe the plans examiner will accept the 2-hour wall in lieu of providing 1-hour under the loggia and the supporting construction

    R302.2.1 Continuity.
    The fire-resistance-rated wall or assembly separating townhouses shall be continuous from the foundation to the underside of the roof sheathing, deck or slab. The fire-resistance rating shall extend the full length of the wall or assembly, including wall extensions through and separating attached enclosed accessory structures.your loggia
     
  8. Joe Torre

    Joe Torre Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2019
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the reply. We are showing a 1-hr fire rating at the loggia ceiling with Type "X" gypsum and dense packed cellulose to fill full ht of floor system.
     
  9. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    327
    Likes Received:
    142
    I'd start by looking at this differently. Different view, but gets the same (nearly) result.

    Consider, if you will, these as SFD w/ 0-ft offset from property line. Each is structurally independent, rated for 1-hr exposure from interior and exterior, etc. The stairwell that leads from the loggia to the 2nd level is within 3-ft, which is not permitted.

    If the 2nd level over the loggia is supported by the two posts, the posts similarly have to be 1-hr rated.

    The other option, if this is all on one lot, is to use a 2-hr wall from foundation to roof that supports both units.
     
  10. Joe Torre

    Joe Torre Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2019
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0

    Thanks for all your input, it has been very helpful! The steps you see is a concrete stair that leads to the front yard (lower).
     
  11. Joe Torre

    Joe Torre Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2019
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have been searching code regarding the firerating requirement of walls that are perpendicular to Property Lines....is there such a thing in the code book?
     
  12. cda

    cda Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    15,608
    Likes Received:
    950
    this IBC, but similar should be in IRC


    https://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/threads/fire-walls-and-horizontal-projecting-elements.24585/#post-191606

    Start the research at R302.1 and go on?
     
  13. cda

    cda Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    15,608
    Likes Received:
    950
  14. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    267
    Worth a thousand words, thank you.
     

Share This Page