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Self-Certification Program??

Discussion in 'Code Administration' started by Joker, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. Pcinspector1

    Pcinspector1 Platinum Member

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    Start of soap box]

    I suspect most clients here the dirty word " Fire Sprinkler System!" and go into a convolutions. So the "Man who Draws" work's wee into the night trying to get around the FSS provisions.

    And then to add to the displeasure, we as a group at Code Hearings change the next code cycle and reduce the square footage in a occupancy increasing the dependencies of said FSS.

    I just did a review on an existing structure with mixed occupancy and about wore out the pages flipping back and forth. My code book has tabs, yellow, orange high lighter and red pencil marks all over it. The code has now become so complicated to do a review I'd like to farm it out. With pressures from the DP's client, I can see why some of us doing plan review have to provide a list of questions over and over to DP, and they stamped it, dated it and signed it prior to review.

    I'm with a minimal education and bad grhammer to boot providing a list of code issues to correct. What's wrong with this picture, how does anything stay upright and not fall down, catch on fire or insult a millennial?

    I ask who's fault is it?

    End of soap box]
     
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  2. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    So if the architect approves their own plans what happens when the inspector fails an inspection for something major like when sprinklers are required and none are installed or an elevator is required and none are on the plans. Does the architect pay for their own mistakes?

    I know around here if the architect screws up and does not have required sprinklers on the plans or something else is missing they charge the owner to pay for the new plans.
     
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  3. Builder Bob

    Builder Bob Sawhorse

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    Prior to 1997, a contractor could apply for a permit and receive the certificate of occupancy the same day by affidavit......It is amazing how the call volume of area fire departments has shifted from structure fires to medical in the last two decades. Just saying from past experiences, self certification is only as good as the profit that can be made at other people expense....
     
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  4. Builder Bob

    Builder Bob Sawhorse

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    Prior to 1997, a contractor could apply for a permit and receive the certificate of occupancy the same day by affidavit......It is amazing how the call volume of area fire departments has shifted from structure fires to medical in the last two decades. Just saying from past experiences, self certification is only as good as the profit that can be made at other people expense....
     
  5. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    In San Bernardino county plans are not checked if stamped by an architect or engineer. Well that was some years ago and I don’t know if that’s changed. I knew an inspector that went to work there and couldn’t handle dealing with the messed up plans. He didn’t last an entire year. Last year I met an individual that said his last day as a solar company representative was that day. He had been hired as an inspector for SB County. He was clueless about anything electrical.
     
    #25 ICE, Mar 9, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
  6. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

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    And their E & O Carriers will continue to insure them? "Duh" So no more inspectors too?
    Is this a residual effect of the rise of the CM's?
     
  7. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    We welcome your perspective noob!....It's hard to give someone else's opinion. I think that we are just of the opinion that the code knowledge on the design side is not where we would like it to be to where we think it might be a good idea. And the complications that could or would arise during inspections would be vast and expensive. For example, I met with a contractor the other day (plans prepared by a RDP) with a commercial vehicle garage that was over 5000 ft with no sprinklers planned. If that permit got issued and was caught on inspection that building might never get finished because of that giant change order and who is footing that bill?
     
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  8. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    Had a project of my own a few years ago and hired a certified architect to meet me at the job site. He was an older guy. He asked me what book I was holding, I said the IBC. He said "let me see it, I never saw one of those".
    Architects are not required to take update classes here. We are going from the 2009 to the 2015 codes and the residential architects are clueless about the changes and it is not my job to teach them.
     
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  9. mtlogcabin

    mtlogcabin Sawhorse

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    In my office it is our job to "teach" everyone the code. We do it very day through plan review and inspections. If the goal of the building department is to have safe code compliant buildings when you issue the CO then the entire building department staff needs to be part of the "team" that is designing and building the building. Sure it gets frustrating to see the same guys making the same mistakes 4, 5, maybe even 6 times before they start to do it correctly but once they do every building after that gets easier and easier to achieve compliance. I am fortunate to work in a small jurisdiction and therefore 80% of our projects are built by the same DP's and contractors.

    We are not an "enforcement" arm of government, we are a "compliance" arm of government. Our goal as a department is to work with a DP and/or contractor to help and guide them into achieving compliance with the codes starting with the design through construction phase until the project is complete. The process is sometimes a long educational one and sometimes it is an easy review and inspections because all the parties involved in the project have been "taught" the code and what is expected.
     
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  10. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    I get paid to do plan reviews not to teach the code even if I had time. I could "teach" them something wrong by mistake. I only need to say "plans do not comply with section XXXXX". Then maybe they will buy a new code book and tech themselfs.
     
  11. JBI

    JBI Sawhorse

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    Until quite recently Architects and Engineers were not introduced to the 'Codes' in college/university. Some schools are now transitioning to either electives or curriculum requirements for Code specific courses.
    Historically they studied the various Referenced Standards (like ASCE7).
    They all know that exits must be provided, but the standards don't really discuss how many, how wide, or how far apart the exits must be.
    That's what the Codes do, they fill in the blanks.
    I see an increasing number of DP's taking Codes classes, and in my home state those courses are accepted as CEU's for the DP's.
     
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  12. Sifu

    Sifu Gold Member

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    Briefly saw a news story following up on the Boeing Max 8 investigation last night, all I heard as I walked by was "in the past, airline manufacturers have largely been allowed to self-certify their airplanes"..............................
     
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  13. Pcinspector1

    Pcinspector1 Platinum Member

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    [​IMG]
    Rick, I hope you didn't shown him your Building Code Scrolls"
     

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