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Pavilion Occupancy....sprinklers?

Discussion in 'Commercial Fire Codes' started by Truck3capt, Apr 9, 2019.

  1. JPohling

    JPohling Sawhorse

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    Completely agree with My250!
     
    #21 JPohling, Apr 10, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  2. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    If they are already existing it doesn't matter. If they are new it depends on the sq. ft., egress and the occupancy load if sprinklers are required..
     
  3. JCraver

    JCraver Sawhorse

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    Code Commentary: ( http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&ved=2ahUKEwiQoqn6qsbhAhVCKKwKHRcDCcEQFjAOegQIBxAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.campusfiresafety.org%2FLinkClick.aspx%3Ffileticket%3DSlAWz_Xut_Y%253D%26tabid%3D96%26portalid%3D0%26mid%3D504%26forcedownload%3Dtrue&usg=AOvVaw3rsf3ALT9T7jyMYV74ur5m )

    Occupancies of Group A are characterized by a significant number of people who are not familiar with their surroundings. The requirement for a suppression system reflects the additional time needed for egress. The ex-tent of protection is also intended to extend to the occupants of the assembly group from unobserved fires in other building areas located between the floor level containing the assembly occupancy and the level of exit dis-charge serving such occupancies. The only exception to the coverage is for Group A-5 occupancies that are open to the atmosphere. Such occupancies require only certain aspects to be sprinklered, such as concession stands (see commentary, Section 903.2.1.5).
    The requirement for sprinklers is based on the location and function of the space. It is not dependent on whether or not the area is provided with exterior walls. IFC Committee Interpretation No. 25-05 to this section discusses this issue and states, in part, that "where no surrounding exterior walls are provided along the perimeter of the building, the building area is used to identify and determine applicable fire area." Outdoor areas, such as pavilions and patios, may have no walls but will have an occupant load and other factors that identify the assembly occupancy as such. If any of the thresholds are reached requiring sprinkler protection, then sprinkler protection must be provided whether there are exterior walls or not.


    .

    The commentary tries too hard to support the committee interp. The reasoning in the first paragraph "The requirement for a suppression system reflects the additional time needed for egress." has no relation to the whole second paragraph in regards to unenclosed structures. By their very nature, there is an impossibility of "additional time needed for egress" because there. are. no. walls. It makes no sense.

    I understand asking the question, because the code really is that bad. But there's very little chance I could ever get convinced to require something like this to be sprinkled. If it's submitted as a U, there's no reason to fight it unless you're just being a ____.
     
  4. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    For some reason we still amend to 300 unless it is a bar/nightclub....o_O
     
  5. my250r11

    my250r11 Sawhorse

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  6. north star

    north star Sawhorse

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    @ ~ @ ~ @

    FWIW, ...I would classify it as a U !.......Classifying this as
    an A use doesn't make sense to me.

    Although the real potential for some type of fire event to
    occur in this structure, and adding to it the mix of alcohol
    to "liquored up" people, ...distracting loud music and the
    basic human condition of "Me Always First" [ MAF ], ...this
    thing not having any walls is the key........Immediate egress
    in multiple directions !


    One thought on this is: "IF \ When", the powers-that-be decide
    to enclose \ expand \ add onto this pavilion, have documentation
    signed, recorded & retrievable; for whatever the heck that will
    be worth, ...that full sprinkling of the whole structure Shall Be
    required !......Did ya get that, ...SHALL BE ! :)

    I'm going back down in to my "below grade" bunker now...

    % * % * %
     
  7. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    On what grounds? That would be a level 2 alteration which would not require it (sprinkler upgrade)....Maybe if you were to call it a change of use at that point (which I would argue.) If you have the authority to exempt sprinklers in open structures, great, but my code wouldn't let me...
     
  8. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    Even if it was a U there is still no separation to the other building
     
    steveray likes this.
  9. Builder Bob

    Builder Bob Sawhorse

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    Remember, fire sprinklers can serve one of two purposes - Prolonging tendable conditions in the room or area of fire origin for up to ten minutes after a fire starts (residential) or property protection (Commercial). Both fire sprinkler systems can do a little of both.

    My question is if the restroom building or concession stand catches on fire, what guarantee can you make that these fires won't damage the overhead pavilion? Remember the codes are a minimum and are also supposed to protect our first responders.... I have been in a building collapse - and suffered some injuries from that.
     

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