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Gender Neutral Restrooms

Discussion in 'Commercial Building Codes' started by aston414, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. aston414

    aston414 Registered User

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    Lately there has been a big shift toward gender-neutrality in regards to restroom design, but building codes thus far (for the most part), have only incorporated gender neutral signage requirements, and many codes still have requirements for separate toilet facilities for individual sexes. Is anyone aware of precedents for truly gender neutral restroom designs (similar to what has been proposed by Joel Sanders "Stalled" project)? I am beginning to work on a new office/higher-education building, and the client has expressed a desire for gender neutral restrooms. However, the Michigan Building Code/Michigan Plumbing Code outlines that separate facilities must be provided for each sex (2015 MPC, 403.2.). If anyone is aware of similar installations, specifically in Michigan, please share. I would like to know if there have been any installations that have been successfully installed through the Alternative Methods provisions in the code.
     
  2. MichaelM

    MichaelM Registered User

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    California passed bill AB1732 which took effect on March 1, 2017,
    All new/remodeled/altered single user restrooms in businesses, government buildings and places of public accommodation shall be available to everyone and labeled as All Gender. Multi user restrooms are still labeled as men and women restrooms.
     
  3. aston414

    aston414 Registered User

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    Thanks for the information. Yeah, specifically I'm looking at multi-user restrooms. It's still a very new idea so I'm curious to know if there are actual installations of gender-neutral multi-user restrooms.
     
  4. MichaelM

    MichaelM Registered User

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    No, not in California. Single user only.
     
  5. JPohling

    JPohling Sawhorse

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    I have no experience with Michigan.
    But in that instance we would typically provide multi user mens and womens toilet rooms with a separate single occupancy gender neutral / family restroom.

    No no such thing as Gender Neutral multi occupancy restrooms. kinky
     
  6. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

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    I believe they are beginning to appear in Las Vegas.
     
  7. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

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    We have permitted multiple single user gender neutral restrooms in place of gang gender assigned restrooms, but not any gender neutral gang restrooms.
     
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  8. mtlogcabin

    mtlogcabin Sawhorse

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    Forget the social crap going on out there. The code language would be "unisex" or "single user". Design and build the facilities as required by the code, add a couple of "single user" restrooms if your client wants to provide something in addition to the code requirements. As for who uses what facility based on what they feel or think about themselves is not a code issue it is a social issue. The codes are not there to address social issues.

    2018 IBC
    [A] 101.3 Intent.
    The purpose of this code is to establish the minimum requirements to provide a reasonable level of safety, public health and general welfare through structural strength, means of egress facilities, stability, sanitation, adequate light and ventilation, energy conservation, and safety to life and property from fire, explosion and other hazards, and to provide a reasonable level of safety to fire fighters and emergency responders during emergency operations.
     
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  9. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

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    Back off mt! The folks on this forum are experienced enough to understand where this is coming from (ACLU?).
    Though not yet in the code it should be seen as a legally acceptable alternate methods and means.
     
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  10. mtlogcabin

    mtlogcabin Sawhorse

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    No I won't back off on a scientific fact. There are only two scientific sexes and those promoting anything else are foolish individuals. Last time I checked the ACLU did not write the codes.
     
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  11. Sol

    Sol Member

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    I am doing a review on this matter too. The city of Portland Oregon and Edmond WA have allowed this concept in schools. Full height walls and doors are required for each water closet. Each water closet has to have its own ventilation. The door has to have an indicator if in use. Basically each water closet is separated from each other.
     
  12. JPohling

    JPohling Sawhorse

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    your gonna want to stay in your cabin and read this.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5824932/
     
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  13. mtlogcabin

    mtlogcabin Sawhorse

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    Tolerance does not mean acceptance. I can choose to tolerate someone without accepting what they believe or how they behave.
    Everybody is entitled to their own opinions. However they are not entitled to their own facts
    As pointed out in the article sex and gender are not interchangeable terms for humans. The definition of gender is dynamic (constantly changing) but is based on self prsentation

    Self presentation is how people present themselves in order to control or shape how others view them. self presentation normally involves expressing oneself and behaving in ways that create a desired impression.


    Are sex and gender interchangeable terms? In classical biology, both are sometimes but not always used on an equal basis for some groups of animals. However, for our own species the Homo sapiens, they are not

    There is no generally accepted definition of gender,
    because the concept itself is not static but dynamic [20]. According to Weed [21] the meaning of gender depends on who uses the word, in what context, and for what ends. A few examples of definitions as used in medicine or in the humanities, in particular in sociology are:

    • • Gender: the behavioural, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex (Merriam-Webster Medical dictionary)
    • • Gender: is a constitutive element of social relationships based upon perceived differences between the sexes and gender is a primary way of signifying relationships of power (historian Joan Wallach Scott [22]).
    • • Gender: is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between masculinity and femininity. Depending on the context, these characteristics may include biological sex (i.e. the state of being male, female or an intersex variation which may complicate sex assignment), sex-based social structures (including gender roles and other social roles), or gender identity [23]).
    • Since 2011, the FDA [24] started using sex as the biological classification and gender as a person's self-presentation as male or female, or how a person is responded to by social institutions based on the individual's gender presentation.
    • • To my knowledge, no specific definition of gender emerged from basic studies in animal physiology and development.
    These definitions illustrate that a triplet of basic elements is taken into account, namely biological sex, psychological gender, and social gender role. Gender is wider than sex. To date gender is mainly used in a human sociological context, with a considerable input from feminist theory and with little reference to basic principles of fundamental biology

    With respect to Jeff and this forum I believe I have said enough on this non-building code subject and will not comment any further


     
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  14. tmurray

    tmurray Sawhorse

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    Speak directly to the AHJ and see if they are interested in accepting your proposal.

    The code requires a minimum number of washrooms for the health of building occupants. As long as the minimum number of washrooms are provided, how they are provided is completely irrelevant to me. That is a business decision that the government and codes are, at best, ill equipped to dictate to each individual business given the spectrum of needs for each different business. I'm all for the free market devising how to allocate their washrooms, provided the minimum number and accessibility are met.

    Whether or not there are 2 or more genders is completely irrelevant to me. I have more important things on my mind than how other people are living their life where it does not negatively affect anyone else.
     
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  15. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

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    In todays society, in the US, you will not see gender-neutral multi-user restrooms, in the codes.
    Europe, maybe, unlikely.
     
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  16. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

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    Not yet, but it is coming Mark. Think amusement Parks, stadiums, Las Vegas, etc.
    Granted the military does not take kindly to this as of yesterday's DOJ amicas brief.
     
  17. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    I am thinking about identifying as 70 so I can retire......
     
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  18. georgia plans exam

    georgia plans exam Silver Member

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    This is a non-issue. The code is clear, "separate facilities shall be provided for each sex." Not separate fixtures, separate "facilities." (2012 IPC Section 403.2)

    GPE
     
  19. JPohling

    JPohling Sawhorse

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    I do not believe even then you will have multi occupancy gender neutral rooms with traditional toilet partitions. You will have multi occupancy rooms that have individual rooms that are completely private with toilets in some and urinals in others. We have these now in many places. The signage on the doors say: "sit", "stand" or if a urinal and toilet are in one it says "sit/stand". then there are common sink areas for everyone to enjoy.
     
  20. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    I believe there are already proposals to require full height partitions for "shy bladder" people and maybe there will be a tie in with this "issue"...
     

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