# Ladder to hatch with HVAC in attics.



## Rick18071 (Oct 30, 2020)

2015 IMC. Inspecting a 4'x4' hatch on a roof on 2 story apartment building 12' from roof edge. They will use it to crane new HVAC units in the attic. I think the building was built around the civil war in a army base in PA. The roof hatch will be the only access to the attic. They will build a compliant ladder to the roof. From the vertical ladder to the roof hatch they want to have a ladder on the 3/12 sloped steel roof. Since the roof slope is less the required ladder for a 4/12 sloped roof does the ladder on top of the roof need to follow IMC 306.5 requirements for ladders? Section 306.5.1 for Sloped roofs only reference equipment actually on the roof.

306.5 Equipment and appliances on roofs or elevated
structures. Where equipment requiring access or appliances
are located on an elevated structure or the roof of a building
such that personnel will have to climb higher than 16 feet
4877 mm) above grade to access such equipment or appliances,
an interior or exterior means of access shall be provided.
Such access shall not require climbing over
obstructions greater than 30 inches (762 mm) in height or
walking on roofs having a slope greater than 4 units vertical
in 12 units horizontal (33-percent slope). Such access shall
not require the use of portable ladders. Where access involves
climbing over parapet walls, the height shall be measured to
the top of the parapet wall.
shall comply with the following minimum design criteria:
1. The side railing shall extend above the parapet or roof
edge not less than 30 inches (762 mm).
2. Ladders shall have rung spacing not to exceed 14
inches (356 mm) on center. The uppermost rung shall
be not greater than 24 inches (610 mm) below the
upper edge of the roof hatch, roof or parapet, as applicable.
3. Ladders shall have a toe spacing not less than 6 inches
(152 mm) deep.
4. There shall be not less than 18 inches (457 mm)
between rails.
5. Rungs shall have a diameter not less than 0.75-inch
(19 mm) and be capable of withstanding a 300-pound
(136.1 kg) load.
6. Ladders over 30 feet (9144 mm) in height shall be
provided with offset sections and landings capable of
withstanding 100 pounds per square foot (488.2 kg/
m2). Landing dimensions shall be not less than 18
inches (457 mm) and not less than the width of the
ladder served. A guard rail shall be provided on all
open sides of the landing.
7. Climbing clearance. The distance from the centerline
of the rungs to the nearest permanent object on the
climbing side of the ladder shall be not less than 30
inches (762 mm) measured perpendicular to the
rungs. This distance shall be maintained from the
point of ladder access to the bottom of the roof hatch.
A minimum clear width of 15 inches (381 mm) shall
be provided on both sides of the ladder measured
from the midpoint of and parallel with the rungs
except where cages or wells are installed.
8. Landing required. The ladder shall be provided with
a clear and unobstructed bottom landing area having a
minimum dimension of 30 inches (762 mm) by 30
inches (762 mm) centered in front of the ladder.
9. Ladders shall be protected against corrosion by
approved means.
10. Access to ladders shall be provided at all times.
Catwalks installed to provide the required access shall be
not less than 24 inches (610 mm) wide and shall have railings
as required for service platforms.
Exception: This section shall not apply to Group R-3
occupancies.


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## steveray (Oct 30, 2020)

If I understand correctly....No....It is an aid to walking on the 3/12 roof


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## ICE (Oct 30, 2020)

If I understand correctly....it is an impediment to walking on a 3/12 roof.  

If you are on a roof you should be standing....no sitting.....no crawling....if standing does not work for you, you shouldn't be on that roof.


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## ADAguy (Oct 30, 2020)

also check OSHA for tie-off requirements


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## klarenbeek (Nov 2, 2020)

I would say no  because the bare roof right next to it _is_ code compliant. My question would be do they have a code compliant access to the roof from the ground?


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## klarenbeek (Nov 2, 2020)

Sorry, re-read the OP and missed the compliant ladder to the roof


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## ADAguy (Nov 3, 2020)

Key here seems to be that the equipment is "within the attic", "not" on the roof.


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## Rick18071 (Nov 3, 2020)

i am asking because I always herd things had to be to code even if they are not required to be there per code.

Another problem is the new roof hatch may be to far from the units. Normally since the units are being replaced with the same the distance from any hatch should not be a problem The problem is the roof hatch is new. I was told that the attic is 50" from the top of the ceiling joists to the under the peak of the roof rafters and the existing units are over 20' from the new hatch. I was just told that there are other openings from inside to the attic but none are big enough to bring in the new units. Will the hatch need to comply with the following?

*306.3 Appliances in attics. *Attics containing appliances

shall be provided with an opening and unobstructed passageway

large enough to allow removal of the largest _appliance_.

The passageway shall be not less than 30 inches (762 mm)

high and 22 inches (559 mm) wide and *not more than 20 feet

(6096 mm) in length measured along the centerline of the

passageway from the opening to the appliance.* The passageway

shall have continuous solid flooring not less than 24

inches (610 mm) wide. A level service space not less than 30

inches (762 mm) deep and 30 inches (762 mm) wide shall be

present at the front or service side of the _appliance_. The clear

access opening dimensions shall be not less than 20 inches by

30 inches (508 mm by 762 mm), and large enough to allow

removal of the largest _appliance_.

*Exceptions:*

1. The passageway and level service space are not

required where the _appliance _is capable of being

serviced and removed through the required opening.

2. *Where the passageway is unobstructed and not less

than 6 feet (1829 mm) high and 22 inches (559 mm)

wide for its entire length, the passageway shall be

not greater than 50 feet (15 250 mm) in length.*


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## ADAguy (Nov 4, 2020)

Why wouldn't you?


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## Paul Sweet (Nov 4, 2020)

Can they use the existing opening(s) for service, and use the new roof hatch only for installation?


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## ADAguy (Nov 4, 2020)

Does existing service opening allow for access to the new units as required?


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## klarenbeek (Nov 4, 2020)

Is this replacement of existing units previously located in the attic or is it new appliances where there were none located before?  
If it is just replacements, the existing building code may apply if your jurisdiction has adopted it.  The IMC service access sections don't apply under the existing building code if this is a replacement in basically the same location.  
If there were previously no appliances in the attic or you don't have the existing building code, access must meet current code requirements.  I've always allowed a little leeway on old buildings for service access, but it has to be at least reasonably close.  They would probably have to add more attic access here as building structure allows.  Those distance requirements aren't just to make it easier for the tech, they are there so he can get out quickly in an emergency.


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## Rick18071 (Nov 5, 2020)

I haven't been the building yet. Since it is on a army base we can't require a permit or plan review. The contract just requires inspections to the 2015 ICC. I was just shown the roof hatch from the ground at this time and will go into the attic after the units are installed.  I was just told that this new roof hatch will be the access to the new HVAC units. I can only assume that the new units will be where the old ones are at this time. I am not concerned right now with the location of the units, only the location of the new roof hatch location complying to code since it is new. I am also assuming that if there is any access from the inside to the attic that it does not comply to code to allow removal of the new units. I don't know how the existing units were installed.
Does it matter where the inside access is if it does not comply to the size requirements?


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## steveray (Nov 5, 2020)

Nothing in the code requires the attic access to be interior:

306.3 Appliances in attics. Attics containing appliances
shall be provided with an opening and unobstructed passageway
large enough to allow removal of the largest appliance.
The passageway shall be not less than 30 inches (762 mm)
high and 22 inches (559 mm) wide and not more than 20 feet
(6096 mm) in length measured along the centerline of the
passageway from the opening to the appliance. The passageway
shall have continuous solid flooring not less than 24
inches (610 mm) wide. A level service space not less than 30
inches (762 mm) deep and 30 inches (762 mm) wide shall be
present at the front or service side of the appliance. The clear
access opening dimensions shall be not less than 20 inches by
30 inches (508 mm by 762 mm), and large enough to allow
removal of the largest appliance.


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## Rick18071 (Nov 5, 2020)

Steveray your right. But I am concerned about the distance from the new roof hatch, which is the only access that complies to code because of it's size, complying to the 20' maximum distance to the HVAC units.


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## ADAguy (Nov 5, 2020)

Military bases are always fun, aren't they?


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## klarenbeek (Nov 5, 2020)

Dealing with an old building like this is one of those situations where I look at what the intent of the code is.  With the roof hatch they have provided a permanent opening to replace the units.  The other intent is to provide safe access for service techs.  This is a case where if they are only a couple feet over the 20' distance I would probably let it go, or if they can't quite get the code mandated opening size without messing with structural framing but can provide an opening large enough for a person to get through without too much struggle I would be OK with it.  New construction would be another matter.


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## Rick18071 (Nov 6, 2020)

klarenbeek said:


> Dealing with an old building like this is one of those situations where I look at what the intent of the code is.  With the roof hatch they have provided a permanent opening to replace the units.  The other intent is to provide safe access for service techs.  This is a case where if they are only a couple feet over the 20' distance I would probably let it go, or if they can't quite get the code mandated opening size without messing with structural framing but can provide an opening large enough for a person to get through without too much struggle I would be OK with it.  New construction would be another matter.



This sounds reasonable. My next inspection should see how far the units are from the roof hatch.


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