# Urinal required in a single occupancy toilet for "B" occupancy?



## JPohling (Oct 2, 2018)

We have a plan checker that is insisting that because the California Plumbing Code table 422.1 indicates that a urinal is required for 1-100 men for a B occupancy that even when a single room occupancy toilet room is allowed to serve both employees and customers that this room also is required to have a urinal.

I cannot find any language or exception to this.

What do you good people think?


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## mark handler (Oct 2, 2018)

The closest thing to a waver is Footnote # 3, but it is for A and E occupancies. OL< 50


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 2, 2018)

I believe he is correct when reviewing the entire table there are occupancies that do not require urinals and occupancies that have different ratios.
Look at footnote 4 where it clarifies urinals are not a substitute for water closets they are in addition to  

The IPC puts WC and urinals in the same column and then refers you to this section
419.2 Substitution for water closets.
In each bathroom or toilet room, urinals shall not be substituted for more than 67 percent of the required water closets in assembly and educational occupancies. Urinals shall not be substituted for more than 50 percent of the required water closets in all other occupancies.


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## ADAguy (Oct 2, 2018)

Are troughs still legal?


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## JPohling (Oct 2, 2018)

I guess I see no real advantage to having a urinal in a single occupancy toilet room in terms of fixture count.  Only using one at a time.  
Never had this "requirement" enforced before.


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## north star (Oct 2, 2018)

** = * = **



> *" Are troughs still legal? "*


I do not believe that they are, because of privacy issues, plus
there aren't any ADA compliant troughs.......Available, Yes !
Legal, No !

** = * = **


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## JPohling (Oct 3, 2018)

How is it that we need to label the single occupancy room gender neutral then
place a gender specific fixture within the room?

Seems like everyone is in agreement that a urinal is a requirement for a single
occupancy toilet room in a B occupancy?  It specifically states "one toilet facility".
 It does not say "one toilet and a urinal facility".


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## north star (Oct 3, 2018)

*& = &*

JPohling,

IMO, ...the Codes are not [ yet ] synonymous with the current cultural
environment.......In the real world, there is no Gender Neutral
designation !.......Either you is, or you ain't.

*& = &*


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## ADAguy (Oct 4, 2018)

But "if" you are, then what?


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## north star (Oct 5, 2018)

*# ~ #*

Are what ?.........Are a "man", or are a "woman" ?

*# ~ #*


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## ADAguy (Oct 5, 2018)

some are "both" with "dual" fixtures (smiling)


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## JPohling (Oct 5, 2018)

The real question is who believes that the definition of a "single toilet facility"  contains a urinal.  Other than Palo Alto that is................


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## north star (Oct 5, 2018)

*! = ! = !*

ADAguy,

I am going to have to pull the "I don't know about this stuff" card on you.

If some are both with dual fixtures, *(1)* Are both sets of [ plbg. ] fixtures
fully operational & capable of fulfilling their intended, ORIGINAL birthed
design, or* (2)* Are some of the dual fixtures for marketing \ confusion
purposes, or other ?  

*! = ! = !*


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## mark handler (Oct 5, 2018)

JPohling said:


> The real question is who believes that the definition of a "single toilet facility"  contains a urinal.  Other than Palo Alto that is................


The term "single toilet facility" is not defined in the codes, But IMPO a "single toilet facility", that is designed for use by no more than one person at a time, can contain a toilet and urinal. it is just used by one person at a time.


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 5, 2018)

Our state amended that table and only requires the urinal in single user toilet facilities where food and drink are served.


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## Yikes (Oct 5, 2018)

California identifies a single-user facility as a "toilet facility with no more than one water closet and one urinal with a locking mechanism controlled by the user".
https://www.documents.dgs.ca.gov/dsa/bulletins/BU_17-01-01.pdf
Therefore, it is not useful to argue that the presence of both toilet and urinal negates the purpose of a gender neutral single user facility.


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## ADAguy (Oct 7, 2018)

Convenience vs plumbing? Kilt vs zipper? Depends on you individual plumbing.


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## Pcinspector1 (Oct 8, 2018)

So if you were wanting to remove this requirement, what would change and how could you word it? 

Whats the reasoning for this? This is goofy.

A toilet takes care of most users I would think?


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 8, 2018)

Pcinspector1 said:


> Whats the reasoning for this?


Sanitation would be my first guess Saving water would be my 2nd guess


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## ADAguy (Oct 8, 2018)

HMMMM? both make sense but a urinal could be waterless vs a toilet.


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## JPohling (Oct 8, 2018)

We have already added the urinal, I was just wondering if it is legit.


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## ADAguy (Oct 8, 2018)

What is the use of this facility, a place where alcohol is served? If so local health ordinance may require both.


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## JPohling (Oct 9, 2018)

It is a bank branch


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## Blazer (Nov 18, 2020)

JPohling said:


> The real question is who believes that the definition of a "single toilet facility"  contains a urinal.  Other than Palo Alto that is................


ADA states that a single-use or family toilet room contains no more than two water closets or one water closet and one urinal. (2010 ADA *213.2.1*)


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## JPohling (Nov 18, 2020)

Blazer said:


> ADA states that a single-use or family toilet room contains no more than two water closets or one water closet and one urinal. (2010 ADA *213.2.1*)


ADA is not code.  The CPC definition of a "single toilet facility" is one WC and one Lav.


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