# Residential new home build question.



## Seth_Thomas (Apr 26, 2017)

Sorry, not a residential build expert by any means and new to the forum.

Friend of mine is having a home built.  Took a bunch of photos and he was concerned about this issue.  Since I've not seen the plans, but always skeptical of home builders (sorry...bad experiences personally), not sure what the code requires and if this seems acceptable.

It is a new home in Pasco County, FL.


Basically looks like 3-2x18" sandwiched together that spans from the concrete block the width of a 2 car garage, and then just rest next to the block on the other side on top of a basic wall with a strap?

Thoughts? 

Thx


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## cda (Apr 26, 2017)

Welcome

Will let the experts type

But straps might be for hurricane


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## Seth_Thomas (Apr 26, 2017)

Usually straps are attached to the concrete block in FL and why there is a contiguous concrete header poured around the top and in columns to the foundation/slab.

Guess his question really is.  Why is this huge 3x apparent support beam sitting right on top of this pathetic looking standard wall that is non-load bearing?  The question seems to be in my mind, why isn't this thing moved over and sitting on top of the concrete block since it appears to be such a beefy load bearing configuration?  The rear of the house, which I have photos of if needed.  Does this exactly.  It spans across a doorway that is jacked/beefed up with a load bearing setup, and spans to the concrete block to rest/support the rear portion of the 2nd story.

Thanks


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## my250r11 (Apr 26, 2017)

Without all the details placement is dependent on several things but can tell you that if that is where it goes it will need studs under it to have a continuous load path to the footing. The strap also will need more blocking to be able to install ALL the required fasteners.


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## tmurray (Apr 26, 2017)

Big questions, why is there a 3 ply LVL there? I would assume it is to carry a point load. In that case, it does not have proper end bearing and there should be posts to continue the load to the foundation. This *should* be identified on the plans and the sealed design of the beam. Now, do you have a picture showing the strap, like a diagonal photo? I've never seen it, so assuming it is being used properly, my guess would be hold-down. Again, the use should be identified on the sealed design for the beam.


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## Seth_Thomas (Apr 26, 2017)

Seems illogical that it wouldn't be moved slightly over and sit on the concrete block.  And the fact there is no other studs/beefed up section under to support it, where in the back, over a doorway, they did this with 2x4s tripled up to support the span of a slightly longer distance...certainly makes you go hmmm...

For fun...here is a photos of the front of the house and the corner.

Then, a few photos of the back where they went concrete block, over a beefed up door, to the corner of the concrete block and looks more reasonable.


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## Seth_Thomas (Apr 26, 2017)

Additionally, I told my buddy to hire a local structural engineer, pay up the several hundred bucks, have them visit the site and get the plans from the project manager, and let them look it over and determine if that front section makes any sense.  I know it isn't technically complete the framing until the end of next week he said.  But, where that thing is sitting now is the wall of the second story in that room.  If it is moved over, then the bedroom sq.ft. just shrunk about 10-15 sq.ft.

Probably worth the money I told him to have a 3rd party now look at this, because maybe it turns out to be a big deal, and now they have some serious issues with all the structure on top of it needing to be torn down/rebuilt, or some type of modification to the plans to support that section if it doesn't change.  And the sq.footage thing if that is reality..broken sq.ft. promise, but apparently the home builders contract gives them the ability to change the sq.ft. and they are just estimates...haha.

Thanks


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## Seth_Thomas (Apr 26, 2017)

tmurray said:


> Big questions, why is there a 3 ply LVL there? I would assume it is to carry a point load. In that case, it does not have proper end bearing and there should be posts to continue the load to the foundation. This *should* be identified on the plans and the sealed design of the beam. Now, do you have a picture showing the strap, like a diagonal photo? I've never seen it, so assuming it is being used properly, my guess would be hold-down. Again, the use should be identified on the sealed design for the beam.



Well, exactly.  I don't think it takes a structural engineer to know that basic physics, and watching HGTV enough you can determine that it appears to be some load bearing structure/beam.  Yet is sitting on top of a ridiculous looking normal wall 2x4.  The length are all over the place.  Seems like it should sit a foot over on the actual concrete block and attached/fastened per normal code/hurricane strap spec that is required.

Again, I told him to talk to his project manager, and why not just hire a 3rd party structural engineer/inspector and get the plans in his hands who is qualified and make sure it is drawn up that way.  Who knows, since this is on the second home ever built like this by this builder, the structural engineer could be wrong, or they didn't follow the plans?!?!

Logical, reason and physics tell me something isn't right with this picture...pun intended.

Thx


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## my250r11 (Apr 26, 2017)

Seth_Thomas said:


> But, where that thing is sitting now is the wall of the second story in that room



I can not tell you if some one messed up but the beam is under the the exterior wall like it needs to be, won't guess as to if the wall is in the right place, but if it is it needs to be supported.


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## cda (Apr 26, 2017)

Now a days it seems to make a lot of sense to have a third party inspect a home. I would if I was having a house built.

The other thing, I guess this went through city building plan review?? And hopefully they looked at the structural component closely??


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## steveray (Apr 26, 2017)

The real question will be if the inspector catches it.....What do the plans show?


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## Seth_Thomas (Apr 26, 2017)

Time will tell.  My buddy just emailed me saying he talked with the contruction manager..he sent him the same photos he sent me.  He is going to look at the plans and the photos and go onsite and get with the engineer to determine what is going on.

He said also in the email the construction manager said they have a real "tough" inspector that would catch something really wrong if it isn't supposed to be this way. (famous like words).

Again, until there are plans to see, maybe it is how it is drawn up, and then the support should be beefed up under to the footing...it is an enigma.

Makes for good fodder though huh?

Still told him to pay for a independent structural engineer and don't take their word for it.  They all work for him in the end, he is going to pay the big mortgage and price for the completed home and has to live in it with his wife/kids.  So don't feel bad if this is all for not and a good explanation exists and it is going to work itself out magically over the next week without intervention. 

I told him my personal experiences 15yrs with a home builder, I had a 3rd party come out...uh oh!!!  5 month delay later, hand framing was done when it wasn't supposed to be, plans drawn up and engineered and resubmitted to the county, the house finally got built correctly.  Had it not been for my $300 investment, God only knows if the roof may have fallen in one day.

Thanks.


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## Seth_Thomas (Apr 26, 2017)

cda said:


> Now a days it seems to make a lot of sense to have a third party inspect a home. I would if I was having a house built.
> 
> The other thing, I guess this went through city building plan review?? And hopefully they looked at the structural component closely??



So they say.  It is what I keep telling my buddy.  I hired a structural engineer during my last home build.  Think 15yrs ago like $300 for about 2hrs of the guys time, caught all sorts of nonsense.

The country is so bombarded with the massive home building going on, they are likely rubber stamping it...seriously.  I have no faith in the "system" and County catching it. Again, this is the second home built like this one ever in the World.  Who knows what happened with the first.  He is doing the right thing just bringing these things up and I told him I would post it up on a forum and get some feedback.

Really, need the plans.  Inspection...and a 3rd party inspection independent.  Piece of mind.  Due diligence never hurts anybody.


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## Pcinspector1 (Apr 26, 2017)

Header-wall framing looks incomplete on 2nd pic, post #6.

Post #1, would check 3-ply LVL for proper nailing pattern.


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## tmurray (Apr 27, 2017)

Has the building inspector performed an inspection of the framing?


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## Seth_Thomas (Apr 27, 2017)

^ Not yet.  Think he said end of next week the framing should be "complete." Exact time/day for inspection is another thing. Not to knock the inspectors, but they are swamped with home building in this area.  The volume of homes they are likely trying to "inspect", I told him to assume it might not be the most thorough inspection that is provided.  Get his own inspection done as well to be sure.

We will see..I'll update the thread if/when I hear back with more information.  The construction manager is supposedly getting "on the issues raised".  Whatever that means.  Is he getting an engineer out there to review the plans and work done?  IDK...haha  

Thx


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## cda (Apr 27, 2017)

Seth_Thomas said:


> ^ Not yet.  Think he said end of next week the framing should be "complete." Exact time/day for inspection is another thing. Not to knock the inspectors, but they are swamped with home building in this area.  The volume of homes they are likely trying to "inspect", I told him to assume it might not be the most thorough inspection that is provided.  Get his own inspection done as well to be sure.
> 
> We will see..I'll update the thread if/when I hear back with more information.  The construction manager is supposedly getting "on the issues raised".  Whatever that means.  Is he getting an engineer out there to review the plans and work done?  IDK...haha
> 
> Thx





Suggest you and your friend shadow the city inspector.

They like committee inspections!!!!!


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## ICE (Apr 27, 2017)

Well then Seth, it's too bad that you have such lousy inspectors in your area that you would resort to hiring an engineer to perform inspections.

We have the same problem but we don't throw money at engineers.  Most people are just as happy as if they had good sense; a signature on a job card is all that they want.  Hell's bells, the inspector doesn't even have to look at the work as long as he signs the card.


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## JCraver (Apr 27, 2017)

I think this question might be a bit premature if the framing is not complete yet.  It could just be that the carpy is supposed to / is planning on going back and adding the studs he needs in that wall..


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## steveray (Apr 27, 2017)

Let it fall down and sue the town....


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## north star (Apr 27, 2017)

*# ~ # ~ #*

In the OP,  ...the strap does not appear to be nailed in yet.
Typically, those "hold down" straps are installed to prevent
rotation & to hold that framed element in a specific location.
In this case, to carry the "point loads" from above.

If you will notice in the pic., ...the 2" x 6" top plates it is
setting on is already deflecting from the weight.......I would
be almost certain that there will be additional 2" x 6" studs
installed underneath at that location.

*# ~ # ~ #*


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## Mark K (Apr 27, 2017)

Real problems maybe with both original design and construction, poor inspection not helping.   This sort of problems suggests developer does not have his act together or does not really care.

Hire an independent structural engineer to document problems.  Hire a lawyer.  I assume this house is being bought from a developer.  Work with lawyer to break the contract and walk away.

Will this developer hire similar quality of subs for other work.  You do not need the long term grief.


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## Seth_Thomas (Apr 28, 2017)

steveray said:


> Let it fall down and sue the town....



Buddy got back to me with an update from the guy.  Said they are aware of it.  The LVL Beam is placed correctly it just gets a 2x6 wall at the wall adjoining area with 2x6 nailed and strapped underneath. Framer is aware of this area .

They said after they get it dried in and completed, they will go back and do the punch items.

So maybe premature...but if improperly placed...way too late and would be a disaster.

Since that is on the 2nd home in the country built like his floorplan/elevation, it is a concern anything that looks unusual to him.

Prudence never hurt anyone, except the builder's ego.

Thanks


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## Seth_Thomas (Apr 28, 2017)

north star said:


> *# ~ # ~ #*
> 
> In the OP,  ...the strap does not appear to be nailed in yet.
> Typically, those "hold down" straps are installed to prevent
> ...




As I posted above, that is basically correct what you typed and their response.  Me thinks their response is an "ooops" (maybe not), one due to the fact it was just kind of vague with a few specifics like "oh yeah, we know about this already....no biggie, we will get that on the punch list and make sure it is done properly."  haha

Structural engineer to inspect in the works by 3rd party he has lined up now.

As I stated also, apparently this floor plan of home is unique to this development, it is only the 2nd home built exactly like it ever.  The model home is the original. Who knows how that was built.  So in reality, there apparently has been a bunch of things and lack of answers for certain options they are doing.  Like, My buddies/wife's question when choosing finishes for things like bathroom: "We want to put quartz in this bathroom for the vanity."  Their response:  "we need to get our pricing guy who handles all the finishes and options to come up with pricing, because we haven't done a house like this before except the model."   3-4 days later..."the optional quartz for the countertop in that bathroom is $350".  rofl.

Him: "We want to put tile on the floor under the stairs."  Them: "Hmmmm...we need to get our guy to calcuate the sq.ft. and give us a price to do that in lieu of carpet, it isn't on our pricing sheet for the home.  There are a bunch of items we just don't know or have pricing for because we haven't done a house like this except the model."

Hence...now they are building it, he is flipping out about everything.  Like being told a free standing tub on the second floor requires a 2x4 raised support base to provide the proper support.  It goes on and on....not saying this isn't accurate.  But the code and knowing the tub, doing some math and understanding what spacing/wood etc used for the floor it will sit on will tell you exactly.  Instead the construction manager told him, we just need to do this because I said so basically.

Can't say this type of thing isn't typical for a lot of builders.


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## cda (Apr 28, 2017)

Not into house building but

Hopefully your guy is keeping back money till the house hits certain stages and passes those inspections


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## Seth_Thomas (Apr 28, 2017)

cda said:


> Not into house building but
> 
> Hopefully your guy is keeping back money till the house hits certain stages and passes those inspections



Yes, indeed.  Builder is basically taking the entire cost of the home on their shoulder with a small down payment like most large home builders.  They could walk away at any time and only lose the deposit they left, unless there is some issue of great impact, such as not passing inspections and other terms of the contract.  Then they could get the deposit back.  Most contracts are really written in favor of the builders these days sadly.  Thx


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## tmurray (Apr 28, 2017)

Reading between the lines here, are you saying most builders there build certain model homes, not custom? We are actually the other way around; most builders are doing custom homes.


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## JCraver (Apr 28, 2017)

Very few specs around here either, 99.9% are customs.  I'm not sure we even have a local builder who has his own models of homes - most of the time, the h.o. takes a plan to the contractor and they build what's on the paper.


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