# Pizza Vents and other vents in NYC



## giyad (May 16, 2013)

Can anyone explain to me how venting works in regards to the health and fire department. I'm in NYC, and I saw a store that has what they call a "pizza vent" even though they are using gas ovens to bake their pizzas.  The way I understand it is that if you have an open flame, you need to have a type 1 venting system.  So how come these guys just have a vent that goes from the oven to the outside street?  They don't have a hood or ansel system.  I'm trying to open a concept similar to pizza in that it is a baked flatbread, but in my location search venting seems to be the biggest factor and I don't know how to find out what exactly I need.  Can someone answer this or point me in the right direction?

Thanks!


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## cda (May 16, 2013)

Welcome

Your subject is a heated discussion around here.

First need to know exactly what type of pizza cooker you are looking to use.

some can be direct vented

some need just a commercial vent a hood, basicaly a hood with an exhaust fan

and some require a vent a hood with an extinguishing system

best advice is to do the same pick out two or three pizza cookers get the paperwork on them, go to your local building department set down and say I want to install one of these, what do you require???


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## fatboy (May 16, 2013)

Welcome to the Forum!

Get a hold of your local building deparment, the Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ). The will have the final say on what type of hood/ventilation they will require on pizza ovens. Asking us is an exercise in futility. We all have opinions, but that is what they are, and will have no import on your situation.

Feel free to come back and fill us in on your progress!

BTW, here, in my jurisdiction, it would be a Type I, with protection. Pizza is greasy, and it will produce smoke.

Dang cda, beat me to the punch again....here's some reading for you though......

http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/commercial-fire-codes/10190-pizza-ovens-need-assistance-type-1-type-2-a.html?highlight=pizza

http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/commercial-mechanical-codes/10462-hood-required-wood-fired-pizza-oven.html?highlight=pizza


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## cda (May 16, 2013)

fatboy said:
			
		

> Welcome to the Forum!Get a hold of your local building deparment, the Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ). The will have the final say on what type of hood/ventilation they will require on pizza ovens. Asking us is an exercise in futility. We all have opinions, but that is what they are, and will have no import on your situation.
> 
> Feel free to come back and fill us in on your progress!
> 
> ...


how about a fully enclosed electric  pizza oven??

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00nSAQGtlFAfcC/Electric-Pizza-Oven-YCD-.jpg


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## giyad (May 16, 2013)

Thanks for the advice!  I was just very surprised to see this pizza place with a direct vent, as I've been told in NY you are required to have a Type I hood and vent for gas equipment.  I'm not sure the model of his oven, I'll see if I can get that and post back here, but he's operating, I don't know if it was ever inspected by the DOB though... and @fatboy, I think in NY you're referring to the DOB right?  There doesn't seem to be any result for AHJ in nyc when I searched.


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## fatboy (May 17, 2013)

Goes by many terms all over the country, asuming DOB=Department of Building(s), then sounds like a good start. We are Building Inspection Division, under Community Development Department.


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## cda (May 17, 2013)

giyad said:
			
		

> Thanks for the advice!  I was just very surprised to see this pizza place with a direct vent, as I've been told in NY you are required to have a Type I hood and vent for gas equipment.  I'm not sure the model of his oven, I'll see if I can get that and post back here, but he's operating, I don't know if it was ever inspected by the DOB though... and @fatboy, I think in NY you're referring to the DOB right?  There doesn't seem to be any result for AHJ in nyc when I searched.


Are you trying to do a pizza place

Or more concerned a out the other guy??

Trying to find out what pizza cooker you want to use


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## giyad (May 17, 2013)

I'm trying to open something similar to pizza.  Its mediterannean, called manousheh, its a flatbread served as a sandwhich.  There are two items that could be greasy, one has ground beef, and the other has bacon.  If need be I can scratch them off the menu, but I'm trying to figure out how this whole venting thing works because the pizza place I'm speaking about is asking for key money and I might take it.  He has double deck bakers pride oven in there, I haven't been able to get the model number yet.  He just has a direct exhaust, there doesn't seem to be an air intake.

On another note in case I don't take that place, I have these 3 ovens (Bakers pride I, Bakers pride II, Zesto) that I may purchase and would like to know what type of venting is required.  I went to the DOB today, they couldn't give me an answer, but they gave me the number for the Office of Technical Certification and Research.  The guy at the DOB said that we have to first figure out if these ovens are approved to be used in NYC, and the OTCR can tell me that, so I'm going to give them a call asap and see what they say about those ovens I linked.


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## giyad (May 17, 2013)

I found his ovens details.  Its a Bakers Pride double deck, model number 152, MEA 207-83, 90K BTU


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## giyad (May 20, 2013)

Ok, I found some good info to answer my question  

From the NBAT website regarding the installation, alteration, or removal of any piping for commercial cooking equipment.

"Once plans have been approved, a licensed Master Plumber and licensed Fire Suppression Piping Contractor must be hired to install the gas piping, equipment, and Ansul system so that FDNY can inspect it. Note: Pizza ovens do not require an Ansul system. FDNY will also inspect the required portable fire extinguishers at this time."

So now my only question is, how can I cook or acquire bacon for my menu without needing to install a full hood and ansul system?


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## north star (May 20, 2013)

*: - :*

giyad,

Did you mention / discuss the desire to have "very greasy" menu

items with the DOB / OTCR / NBAT / others ?......IMO, ...bacon,

and other high grease producing menu items, would require a

Type 1 hood & suppression system.

*: - :*


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## Rick18071 (May 20, 2013)

use bacon bits


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## cda (May 20, 2013)

Cook it in the oven


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## JPohling (May 20, 2013)

I love microwaved bacon


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## giyad (May 20, 2013)

north star said:
			
		

> *: - :*giyad,
> 
> Did you mention / discuss the desire to have "very greasy" menu
> 
> ...





			
				north star said:
			
		

> *: - :*giyad,
> 
> Did you mention / discuss the desire to have "very greasy" menu
> 
> ...


No I didn't, because I know that very greasy items will require a Type I hood, so I'm trying to look for a work-around with the bacon, there is only one item on my menu that has bacon, and I really don't want to scratch that one off because its soooo good.  I think what I might have to do is buy cooked bacon or as Rick suggested below, bacon bits.



			
				Rick18071 said:
			
		

> use bacon bits


Might have to resort to this, can you recommend any?



			
				cda said:
			
		

> Cook it in the oven


I'd love to do that, but wouldn't that then make my oven require a Type I hood?  Also, I've never made bacon in the oven before, but I've read that you have to start from a cold oven and not let it reach smoke point which is 370F, my ovens will be running all the time from 500-650F



			
				JPohling said:
			
		

> I love microwaved bacon


Seriously?  Never even heard of that one before... they don't come out soggy?  That might be my best bet because what I could do is precook it in the microwave and then stick it on the item i bake in the oven so it cooks to perfection... interesting!


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## hlfireinspector (May 20, 2013)

Direct vent not allowed with CE listing. No UL listing???



			
				giyad said:
			
		

> I found his ovens details.  Its a Bakers Pride double deck, model number 152, MEA 207-83, 90K BTU


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## cda (May 20, 2013)

I'd love to do that, but wouldn't that then make my oven require a Type I hood? Also, I've never made bacon in the oven before, but I've read that you have to start from a cold oven and not let it reach smoke point which is 370F, my ovens will be running all the time from 500-650

Restaurants do it all the time just not at that temp

No if in oven type I not required by me


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## cda (May 20, 2013)

Get a small convection oven to cook it in


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## giyad (May 21, 2013)

hlfireinspector said:
			
		

> Direct vent not allowed with CE listing. No UL listing???


I'm sorry I don't understand the question.



			
				cda said:
			
		

> Get a small convection oven to cook it in


Would that oven not require a hood?  Its still grease...  I think this would be the best solution if a hood is not required, otherwise the microwave option might have to do.


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## cda (May 21, 2013)

Put it under the same type II hood used for the pizza oven


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## jar546 (May 21, 2013)

We don't have a very active or large population from NYC when it comes to their building codes so I am thrilled with this post and interaction.  I just wish we had more people who are directly involved with the NYC code process here to answer questions.


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## giyad (May 21, 2013)

cda said:
			
		

> Put it under the same type II hood used for the pizza oven


You seem to have misunderstood me.  There is no hood at all right now, its a direct vent to the outside from the oven.  So I guess unless I can attach another vent to that one, it wouldn't be easy for me to just add another oven right?


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## cda (May 21, 2013)

giyad said:
			
		

> You seem to have misunderstood me.  There is no hood at all right now, its a direct vent to the outside from the oven.  So I guess unless I can attach another vent to that one, it wouldn't be easy for me to just add another oven right?


need to talk to New York on what thier policy is. and if they will let you direct vent the oven you want to use.

I can say what I would do, but may not fly in NY


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## globe trekker (May 21, 2013)

> ..as I've been told in NY you are required to have a Type I hood and vent for gas equipment.


It sounds as though you have already obtained your answer, ..yes?

.


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## giyad (May 21, 2013)

cda said:
			
		

> need to talk to New York on what thier policy is. and if they will let you direct vent the oven you want to use. I can say what I would do, but may not fly in NY


Thanks, yeah I'm going to continue asking around and I'll post my findings!



			
				globe trekker said:
			
		

> It sounds as though you have already obtained your answer, ..yes?.


haha, i wish.  No if you read through the thread, I got some info that pizza ovens (gas or electric) do not require a hood or ansul system, they can be direct vented.


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## globe trekker (May 21, 2013)

> haha, i wish. No if you read through the thread, I got some info that pizza ovens (gas or electric) do not require a hood or ansul system, they can be direct vented.


That may be true, however, what does NYC about your selected method of cooking?    Have they

approved your equipment & design?

.


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## fatboy (May 21, 2013)

Sounds to me like it's a point and shoot, you tell them what you are proposing, they will either approve or deny, denial means back to go, start over again.


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## giyad (May 21, 2013)

Well I'm trying to get in touch with the office of technical certification and research, but they don't answer the phone!  I'm going to go over to them tomorrow hopefully theres someone in the office...

Basically, in NY, any equipment that is to be installed must have an MEA # (Materials and Equipment Acceptance).  If it does, then they will be able to tell me whether or not it needs a hood (and what type).  If it does not have an MEA #, I will have to apply for one, or leave it alone and choose a piece of equipment that has been approved for use in NY.


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