# Violation of R302.5.1 ????



## righter101 (Oct 25, 2013)

"Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted."

Garage attached to a living room/kitchen area w/door that opens (20 minute or solid core).  Stairs go from lower floor to upper floor bedroom area.  Entire upper floor is considered the bedroom above.  No door on bedroom.

Is this "direct" opening, or does the downstairs room constitue a break or intervention?

Egress is down the stairs, through the living room (only room on the lower floor, this place is small) and out another door, other than through the garage.

Thoughts.

I have seen it enforced a certain way but i am not sure i agree.

Thanks.

Time to re-up my sawhorsey membership too. Will do this weekend.

Hope everyone is doing well.


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## High Desert (Oct 25, 2013)

I have always applied it as having a room between the bedroom and the garage with (2) doors.


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## Fort (Oct 26, 2013)

This does not appear to be a violation to me.

As you said the door opens into the living room/ kitchen area.

Although there is no door between the living room/kitchen and the upstairs bedroom,

the garage door does not open directly into the sleeping room.

No where do we have a definition that a room must have a door to be a "room."

It is a matter than needs to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis based on the AHJ's judgement.


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## Gregg Harris (Oct 26, 2013)

Fort said:
			
		

> This does not appear to be a violation to me.As you said the door opens into the living room/ kitchen area.
> 
> Although there is no door between the living room/kitchen and the upstairs bedroom,
> 
> ...


The biggest issue for 302.5.1 is to prevent carbon monoxide from entering the bedroom. With direct communication to the upstairs "where the CO will rise to" would only exserbate the the potential for poisoning.


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## chris kennedy (Oct 26, 2013)

Fort said:
			
		

> No where do we have a definition that a room must have a door to be a "room."


Worth repeating.


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## ICE (Oct 26, 2013)

Gregg Harris said:
			
		

> The biggest issue for 302.5.1 is to prevent carbon monoxide from entering the bedroom. With direct communication to the upstairs "where the CO will rise to" would only exserbate the the potential for poisoning.


Carbon monoxide may have neutral buoyancy in air.  Could it be more about fire than CO?


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## MikeC (Oct 26, 2013)

Does the door open "DIRECTLY" into a room used for sleeping purposes?  Sounds like the answer to this question is no.  Compliant design.


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## Gregg Harris (Oct 26, 2013)

ICE said:
			
		

> Carbon monoxide may have neutral buoyancy in air.  Could it be more about fire than CO?


Going back to commentary; "Openings to sleeping rooms from garages are not allowed,since a person might not wake up in time if there was a hazard from carbon monoxide fumes  or smoke from the garage."  I leaned more on the side of a car running in the garage and a negative pressure created inside the house from duct leakage, but if there was a fire there is probably CO with it also.


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## TJacobs (Oct 26, 2013)

If the garage is on fire, I would want a door to close while I waited on the FD for rescue...but that's just the fire guy in me.


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## jar546 (Oct 26, 2013)

righter101 said:
			
		

> "Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted."Garage attached to a living room/kitchen area w/door that opens (20 minute or solid core).  Stairs go from lower floor to upper floor bedroom area.  Entire upper floor is considered the bedroom above.  No door on bedroom.
> 
> Is this "direct" opening, or does the downstairs room constitue a break or intervention?
> 
> ...


My opinion is that this is a compliant design.


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## righter101 (Oct 31, 2013)

Thanks for the opinions.  Much appreciated.

Happy Halloween to everyone.


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## fatboy (Nov 1, 2013)

Compliant...........


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## cboboggs (Nov 1, 2013)

Sounds like a compliant design to me.


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## ICE (Nov 1, 2013)

With no door to the bedroom at the top or bottom of the stairs, I say no way.  Fire and smoke rise and the stairway could become a chimney.


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## Gregg Harris (Nov 1, 2013)

ICE said:
			
		

> With no door to the bedroom at the top or bottom of the stairs, I say no way.  Fire and smoke rise and the stairway could become a chimney.


I agree. The intent is to prevent smoke and CO from entering the sleeping area.


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## Min&Max (Nov 1, 2013)

"Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted." You may not like it but the design is compliant. This code section gives little room for individual interpretation. Cite the code section that requires interior doors.


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## ICE (Nov 1, 2013)

Let's try this.  Instead of a two story with stairs it's a single story and the garage opens into a hallway.  There is a bedroom off that hallway.  There is no door between the hallway and the bedroom.  What now?


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## ICE (Nov 1, 2013)

Let's try this.  Instead of a two story with stairs it's a single story and the garage opens into a hallway.  There is a bedroom off that hallway.  There is no door between the hallway and the bedroom.  What now?

I forgot to mention that it's a Tuesday in Phoenix AZ.


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## Rider Rick (Nov 1, 2013)

ICE said:
			
		

> Let's try this.  Instead of a two story with stairs it's a single story and the garage opens into a hallway.  There is a bedroom off that hallway.  There is no door between the hallway and the bedroom.  What now?


ICE,

You die!


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## Mac (Nov 1, 2013)

"Let's try this. Instead of a two story with stairs it's a single story and the garage opens into a hallway. There is a bedroom off that hallway. There is no door between the hallway and the bedroom. What now?"

The design is compliant because the door to the garage opens into a hallway, not a sleeping room.


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## Forest (Nov 1, 2013)

Ice I'm with you on the "no way".Why do you call them opening protectives?(doors)


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## Rider Rick (Nov 1, 2013)

Install a door on the bedroom to the hall way.


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## tmurray (Nov 1, 2013)

ICE said:
			
		

> Let's try this.  Instead of a two story with stairs it's a single story and the garage opens into a hallway.  There is a bedroom off that hallway.  There is no door between the hallway and the bedroom.  What now?


That's compliant. The way I've interpreted this requirement (we have the same on in Canada, so it must be a good idea if our codes agree on it) is that if I am standing in the garage and step through the door what room am I in? If the answer is not "bedroom" you have a compliant installation. If we want to take it to extremes then why would you allow it to open into a living room? People fall asleep on their living room couches all the time. We are not the safety police, we have to be reasonable.


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## Min&Max (Nov 1, 2013)

Again, cite the code section requiring interior doors---to any room. I only mention this again because a long time ago it was a topic on this forum and I do not believe anyone could identify language in the IRC that required any interior doors.


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## ICE (Nov 2, 2013)

> R302.5.1 Opening protection. Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted. Other openings between the garage and
> 
> residence shall be equipped with solid wood doors not less than 13/8 inches in thickness, solid or honeycomb core steel doors not less than 13/8 inches thick, or 20-minute fire-rated doors. Doors shall be self-closing and self-latching.
> 
> ...


It comes down to one's interpretation of the word directly.  Fire and the products of combustion are the concern and the effort is dedicated to impeding the transfer of fire and gases from one space to another.  In righter's example there is nothing to impede fire and gases from entering the sleeping room.

Which layout serves the intent of the code?  The stairway and no door to the bedroom or the stairway and a door to the bedroom?  The stairway without the door or as in my example, the hallway without the door are no different than a door into the bedroom.

Now back to the word directly.  Is it supposed to mean that I step through the door immediately into the bedroom?  If that's the case, I can be creative and interrupt the path with a flight of stairs.  That clearly goes against the intent.

Perhaps the code is written poorly but there's no mistaking whats at stake.


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