# Coffee Bar Height for ADA



## jar546

A coffee bar where the customer is expected to add sugar, milk, etc, grab lids.

Would this be considered a sales and service counter or workstation?

I say workstation because it requires you to perform a task.


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## ADAguy

Service counter, no more than 34" AFF. Why would you prefer it to be a workstation, you are self performing the addition of your supplements to the drink. "Convience station? Change the name, it is still a horizontal surface for the purpose of preparing something isn't it? Approachable parrallel of perpendicular? If prependicular then provide knee space. Performance and prescriptive requirements.

Starbucks is in the midddle of a big class action over the heights of their service counters (34") vs their transfer counters (+42") where they hand over/down hot drinks to customers. A standard design used nationally until the suit.


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## Mech

At first I thought workstation was correct as the customer is performing a task at the horizontal coffee cup supporter.

But what about section 904.5.1?  This may be more appropriate.  (Listed sections are from 2009 A117.1; 2010 ADA is very similar, almost identical.)

*904.5 Food Service Lines.* Counters in food service lines shall comply with Section 904.5.

*904.5.1 Self-Service Shelves and Dispensing Devices. *Self-service shelves and dispensing devices for tableware, dishware, condiments, food and beverages shall comply with Section 308.

*904.5.2 Tray Slides.* The tops of tray slides shall be 28 inches (710 mm) minimum and 34 inches (865 mm) maximum above the floor.

Section 308 Reach Ranges does not appear to require knee space.


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## steveray

Service counter does not specify full or self service....


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## JPohling

I go with 34" max


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## nitramnaed

I do a lot of these throughout the country.  34" max but look out for the reach range.  The coffee shop we worked with brought in a condiment dispenser stand that sat up to high and compromised the High Side Reach.  308.3.2 which is lower than the original regulation.

:roll:


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## khsmith55

A bit confused here. ANSI A117.1-2003 (same as 2010 ADA design standards) Section 904.3 references "service counters" and that they shall comply with Sections 904.3.1 and 904.3.2 which appear to permit a 36" high counter? Where is the 34" requirement referenced for service counters.


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## Francis Vineyard

Mech said:
			
		

> At first I thought workstation was correct as the customer is performing a task at the horizontal coffee rcup supporter.http://www.malawforum.com/content/attractive-nuisance-and-injury-minors-maBut what about section 904.5.1? This may be more appropriate. (Listed sections are from 2009 A117.1; 2010 ADA is very similar, almost identical.)
> 
> *904.5 Food Service Lines.* Counters in food service lines shall comply with Section 904.5.
> 
> *904.5.1 Self-Service Shelves and Dispensing Devices. *Self-service shelves and dispensing devices for tableware, dishware, condiments, food and beverages shall comply with Section 308.
> 
> *904.5.2 Tray Slides.* The tops of tray slides shall be 28 inches (710 mm) minimum and 34 inches (865 mm) maximum above the floor.
> 
> Section 308 Reach Ranges does not appear to require knee space.


*904.5.1 Self-Service Shelves and Dispensing Devices. *

Self-service shelves and dispensing devices for tableware, dishware, condiments, food and beverages shall comply with Section 308.





[TR]
Self service counter
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Areas where condiments, napkins and tableware are provided are found in many fast food restaurants and cafeterias. When customers get their own drinks, this area must also be accessible, including the drink machine, cups, lids and straws. The reference to Section 308 requires everything to be within the 15 inch to 48 inch 380 to 1220 mm) reach range (see commentary Figure C904.5.1).
[/TD]
[/TR]







​


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## ADAguy

note: shown is parrallel approach, not always available.


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## Rick18071

Coffee Bar Height for ADA

I always went with the food service line. I would not call it a work or service counter.  The important thing is to get every thing for the public In the reach range. The hot water for tea is usually the highest thing.


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## Francis Vineyard

The applicable code section;

*1109.12.4 Food service lines.* Food service lines shall be accessible. Where self-service shelves are provided, at least 50 percent, but not less than one, of each type provided shall be accessible.


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## mark handler

Francis Vineyard said:
			
		

> *904.5.1 Self-Service Shelves and Dispensing Devices. *Self-service shelves and dispensing devices for tableware, dishware, condiments, food and beverages shall comply with Section 308.
> 
> 
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> 
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> [TR]
> Self service counter
> [TD=bgcolor: #e9e9e9]
> Areas where condiments, napkins and tableware are provided are found in many fast food restaurants and cafeterias. When customers get their own drinks, this area must also be accessible, including the drink machine, cups, lids and straws. The reference to Section 308 requires everything to be within the 15 inch to 48 inch 380 to 1220 mm) reach range (see commentary Figure C904.5.1).
> [/TD][/TR]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


The right answer.......


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## High Desert

I agree with Mark and Francis


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## Fort

I agree with Francis' post in most cases, but I believe a coffee station is a little different.

One must set down their hot cup of coffee in order to add condiments, replace the lid, etc.

There is more too it than just grabbing a napkin, it requires a counter surface that I would require to be at 34" max.


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## ADAguy

Remember McDonalds and temperaures, "ouch",

So what is a driveup window seen as?

Car to transfer ledge height difference? Usually high to low.


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## kenotten

I have inspected thousands of quick service restaurants and convenience stores in the last decade.  Every one of them have counters that match the ones in this discussion: counters with napkins, condiments, straws, cups, cup holders, etc., counters with coffee dispensers, ice cream, prepared food, etc.  They are a type of service counter because they fall under Section 904, although the section does not require that they comply with the counter height requirements for service counters; they indeed function as a work surface (as some have noted) because customers must often place items on a food service counter and perform some activity (mustard on a hotdog; cream in a coffee etc.), but they do not appear to be considered a work surface by the Access Board or the Standards (and if they were, they would require front approach and knee clearance, which would be untenable in most food service lines).

While the previous version of ADAAG included a blanket requirement specifically for counters, the new standards do not.  There are requirements for specific types of counters (Sales & Service Counters) and surfaces that may include counters (Dining and Work Surfaces), but not for counters in general.  The question here is: "What do the Standards require for counters in food service lines?"

In a typical food service line there are a number of elements: display cases, tray slides, self-service shelves and dispensing devices, and counters.  Counters are actually referred to in the Standards at 904.5: "Food Service Lines. Counters in food service lines shall comply with 904.5."

Only problem is, no specific requirements are delineated in the referenced sections for the counters themselves, except by implication.  904.5.1 states that self-service shelves and dispensing devices must be located within accessible reach ranges, which usually implies accessible side reach, and 904.5.2 regards the height of tray slides.  When side reach is over a counter, that counter becomes an obstruction and must comply with the limitation for reach ranges over an obstruction.

I believe this is by design.  If there are fixed or built-in elements on the counters (including dispensing devices attached to 220 outlets, water, or gas), they must comply with reach range requirements over an obstruction (the counter) which limits the height of the counter to 34 inches AFF.  The obstruction does not have a depth threshold so any distance over which one must reach (even 1/8") might be considered an obstruction, making it virtually impossible for the counter to not be an obstruction.

If the counters or the elements on the counters are not fixed or built-in, they are not subject to the design and construction Standards, but they are still subject to the ADA's equal access and nondiscrimination provisions, which gives opportunity for a lawsuit or enforcement action by the feds should an element not be readily accessible and usable to a person in a wheelchair. Whether the ADA Standards determine this for freestanding objects is debatable as there have been no cases that I know of adjudicating the issue, however I counsel my clients to use the design Standards as a guide whenever practical to be safe.

Finally, while Safe Harbor may allow existing elements to be 54" AFF for side approach, the obstruction height is the same - 34".

Ken


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## mark handler

Section 227 of the 2010 Standards clarifies the requirements for food service lines. Queues and waiting lines serving counters or check-out aisles, including those for food service, must be accessible to individuals with disabilities. It clearly states self-service shelves shall comply with 308 reach ranges. The counter height will vary based on side reach vs forward reach.

http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/2010ADAStandards/2010ADAstandards.htm#pgfId-1008283


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