# Panelboard in a closet



## Robert Ellenberg (Nov 20, 2010)

IRC says it cannot be located in a bathroom or a clothes closet.  I just had a lengthy discussion with a GC this afternoon concering one in a closet that was not a clothes closet and did have the required minimum working space.  I don't see anyting in the IRC that prohibits this.  Does the NEC?


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## Jobsaver (Nov 20, 2010)

Locating a panel in a closet is not prohibited by the 2008 NEC.


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## 480sparky (Nov 20, 2010)

Working space is the only NEC issue.  If you have the space, it's allowed.


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## Uncle Bob (Nov 21, 2010)

Don't have my IRC with me right now; but, there are requirements in the IRC concering locations and application of electrical equipment, that may or may not be in the NEC. They are code requirements and must be adhered to.

Ok, you made me go to the truck and dig out the 2006 IRC;

"E3305.4 Required working space shall not be designated for storage. Panelboards and overcurrent protection devices shall not be located in clothes closets or bathrooms."

Uncle Bob


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## peach (Nov 21, 2010)

What kind of closet, if it's not a clothes closet?  I don't think I've ever seen a "utility" closet that has proper working clearance.


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## Uncle Bob (Nov 21, 2010)

Robert,

"one in a closet that was not a clothes closet and did have the required minimum working space".

If youl have an empty room that is used for storage; it must comply with;

2005 NEC, 110.26 (B) "Clear space required by this section *shall not be used for storage!" *

*If contractors would spend 1/4 the time they spend trying not to comply with MINIMUM CODE REQUIREMENTS; trying to comply with them; what a wonderful world this would be.*

PS. The contractor's opinion, interpretation, or "I've been doing this way for 27 years; and never had a problem" is not applicable to code requirements; and is not an amendment to the codes.

Sorry, caught me in a bad mood; had a ten foot 6 X 6 fall on my head friday; and I think it had help.

Uncle Bob


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## Uncle Bob (Nov 21, 2010)

And, as shown in the post below; there are requirements in the NEC that are not in the IRC.

Uncle Bob


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## Yankee (Nov 21, 2010)

If it meets the clear working space required inside of a walled enclosure then I allow it as a mechanical closet. Said mechanical closet shall be labeled NO STORAGE and not have a hanging rod or shelving etc. . .


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## peach (Nov 21, 2010)

the working clearance can't for example have the washer and dryer underneath it...

sorry about your head, UB.. at least it's so hard, you probably broke the lumber.  

27 years?  It's usually 30.. the trades are getting younger... (finally)

You're right.. I don't see it in the 2006


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## GHRoberts (Nov 21, 2010)

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> 2005 NEC, 110.26 (B) "Clear space required by this section *shall not be used for storage!" *


That is an inspection time requirement. As long as the plans and inspection do not show that area is used for storage, the occupant can use the area for storage.

---

The panel in my house has a bunch of junk piled in front of it. The panel in my shop has a 55gal barrel and a paper shredder in front of it. I don't expect these practices to affect my electrical power usage.


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## peach (Nov 21, 2010)

Very true GH... the house I grew up in.. the fuse box was in my Dad's bedroom closet...   and they never had a fire.

You can't control maintenance...  BUT if it looks like a closet (including a mud room closet)... don't let them put the panel there.  Saves alot of questions in the future.


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## Uncle Bob (Nov 21, 2010)

Peach,

For years; whenever I was looking for a breaker panel; I always went straight to the bedroom closet.  Wonder when they stoped it (according to the codes).

I think it was more of a convenience for the elctrician than a fire hazard.

And, yes George; we should remove all code requirements because people like you will always find ways to "do it anyway".  Sometimes after reading your posts; I wish they never required an Engineer's License; and see what kind of a living you would have made; with people doing what they pleased without having to hire you.

Uncle Bob


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## peach (Nov 21, 2010)

The panel needs to have the required working clearance.. which you probably aren't going to get in a closet of any kind...  you need to go to the NEC, not the IRC for the restriction, I think.


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## 480sparky (Nov 21, 2010)

peach said:
			
		

> The panel needs to have the required working clearance.. which you probably aren't going to get in a closet of any kind...  you need to go to the NEC, not the IRC for the restriction, I think.


I've been in some houses that have closets bigger than my living room







I wouldn't hesitate to put a panel behind the door in this closet:


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## Jobsaver (Nov 21, 2010)

I know this is a stupid question, but why doesn't the NEC just say, "shall not locate in closet" if that is what it means?

This thread reminds me of the labeling as bedrooms those rooms having closets threads. Is it, "don't put a panel in a closet because a closet can be used for storage"? Or is it, "If you put the panel in a closet, you cannot use the required working space about the panel for storage".


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## RJJ (Nov 21, 2010)

Yes! Not storage that conflicts with the working space.


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## 480sparky (Nov 21, 2010)

Jobsaver said:
			
		

> I know this is a stupid question, but why doesn't the NEC just say, "shall not locate in closet" if that is what it means? ............


Make a proposal if you feel that strongly about it.


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## Jobsaver (Nov 21, 2010)

Yankee has the right idea. He already has a proposal worked out.



			
				Yankee said:
			
		

> If it meets the clear working space required inside of a walled enclosure then I allow it as a mechanical closet. Said mechanical closet shall be labeled NO STORAGE and not have a hanging rod or shelving etc. . .


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## Uncle Bob (Nov 21, 2010)

Hey Ya'll it's a house. lmao

Uncle Bob


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## chris kennedy (Nov 21, 2010)

Jobsaver said:
			
		

> Locating a panel in a closet is not prohibited by the 2008 NEC.


I think it is, aren't all closets packed with boxes and crap? Clothes closet is just one example.



> 240.24(D) Not in Vicinity of Easily Ignitible Material. Overcurrent devices shall not be located in the vicinity of easily ignitible material, such as in clothes closets.


Maybe not this type of closet, but don't really know what this means, people store mud for future use???





			
				peach said:
			
		

> BUT if it looks like a closet (including a mud room closet)...


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## Jobsaver (Nov 21, 2010)

Thanks Chris. I am learning quite a bit interacting in these threads.

After a careful re-reading of articles 408 *and 240*, I think you are right that overcurrent protection devices are not allowed in closets.

Still, a panelboard of the required noncombustible material having the required deadfront will isolate the conductors from the ignitable material. I wonder if some of the language reflects the intent of the authors considering the evolution of residential overcurrent protection from glass-fuse enclosures to modern breaker panelboards.


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## Yankee (Nov 22, 2010)

A room is defined as a minimum space of 70 square feet with the smallest dimension of not less than 7 feet. those "closets" below are rooms, not closets, and therefore I would allow a panel (with proper spacing) in those "closet rooms"


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## jim baird (Nov 22, 2010)

Chris,

I think in the Miami area it might be called a "sand room".  My grasp of mudroom is the place where you take off your muddy shoes/boots prior to entering the house.


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## chris kennedy (Nov 22, 2010)

jim baird said:
			
		

> Chris,I think in the Miami area it might be called a "sand room".  My grasp of mudroom is the place where you take off your muddy shoes/boots prior to entering the house.


I see, also the place to hang your snow covered jacket.


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## Jobsaver (Nov 22, 2010)

Just don't set your boots or hang your jacket in close proximity to the panelboard!


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## 480sparky (Nov 22, 2010)

chris kennedy said:
			
		

> I see, also the place to hang your snow covered jacket.


Is that what you tell the DEA agents after they bust down your door?


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