# City not allowing electric baseboard heater for bedroom



## pathanay (Jun 13, 2019)

I'm converting existing space to a bedroom and was planning on adding a hardwired electric baseboard heat to satisfy California residential code requirements:



> *R303.9 Required heating*
> 
> Where the winter design temperature in Table R301.2(1) is below 60°F (16°C), every dwelling unit shall be provided with heating facilities capable of maintaining a room temperature of not less than 68°F (20°C) at a point 3 feet (914 mm) above the floor and 2 feet (610 mm) from exterior walls in habitable rooms at the design temperature. The installation of one or more portable space heaters shall not be used to achieve compliance with this section.



The people at the city's permit center informed me that an electric baseboard heater will not be allowed. I can't find any city document that says so.

I don't have any central heat and may install a single head mini-split for the living room in the future. We have mild winters.

Is there a way to get around this, besides arguing with the inspector?


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## conarb (Jun 13, 2019)

He's probably basing in on what's called "Title 24", but is the energy  conservation part of Title 24.  You can get a Title 24 consultant to do an analysis and probably make it work, it's all bull **** and trade offs.  Title 24 consultants usually do not advertise, try calling a couple of architects' offices and ask them for the name of a Title 24 consultant in your area, or maybe ask the building department why and if they say Energy Code ask them for the name of a good Title 24 Consultant.


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## cda (Jun 13, 2019)

Would start with the city and ask where the requirement comes from

Get a copy from them, if not on line 

And see how it reads.


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## cda (Jun 13, 2019)

One read

https://www.heatizon.com/news-media...r-warming-radiant-heating-california-title-24


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## Mark K (Jun 14, 2019)

You either argue with the inspector, hire a consultant to argue with the inspector or give in.  If you are not willing to push back you will loose.


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## Rick18071 (Jun 14, 2019)

Ask for the section and code that this comes from.


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## mark handler (Jun 14, 2019)

2016 RESIDENTIAL COMPLIANCE MANUAL - California Energy Commission
4.2.2 Prescriptive Requirements
Under the performance compliance method, a small credit is available for electric  Electric resistance and electric radiant heating installation are allowed as the primary heating system only when using the performance compliance method systems relative to electric baseboard systems is used.
https://www.energy.ca.gov/2015publications/CEC-400-2015-032/CEC-400-2015-032-CMF.pdf


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## ADAguy (Jun 14, 2019)

mark handler said:


> 2016 RESIDENTIAL COMPLIANCE MANUAL - California Energy Commission
> 4.2.2 Prescriptive Requirements
> Under the performance compliance method, a small credit is available for electric  Electric resistance and electric radiant heating installation are allowed as the primary heating system only when using the performance compliance method systems relative to electric baseboard systems is used.
> https://www.energy.ca.gov/2015publications/CEC-400-2015-032/CEC-400-2015-032-CMF.pdf



You the "Man" MH!


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## pathanay (Jun 14, 2019)

Thanks all. I guess I might need to install central heat...

I don't know if I can get into the performance compliance calculations. It's an older home and I have no idea about insulation (if any!) R values, fenestration SHGCs, etc.


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## Robert (Jun 17, 2019)

Mark got it right. An energy consultant can make it work for $500 +/- using a performance approach. He/she will need to know floor area, glazing area (and what direction it faces), roofing type and existing insulation if any. You will probably have to add more insulation somewhere else (as a trade-off) to allow the electric heat (hence, the "performance" approach). This will still probably be cheaper then adding a FAU, though will be expensive to run. 

I always thought in CA that a new home could not rely solely on electric heat, but I just finished an ADU with only electric heat, thanks to a performance approach by an energy consultant.



pathanay said:


> Thanks all. I guess I might need to install central heat...
> 
> I don't know if I can get into the performance compliance calculations. It's an older home and I have no idea about insulation (if any!) R values, fenestration SHGCs, etc.


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## mark handler (Jun 17, 2019)

Robert said:


> ... An energy consultant can make it work for $500 +/- ...


Economy Title 24
6055 E. Washington Blvd. Ste. 445
Commerce CA 90040
Office: 626-549-1379
Fax: 323-890-9055
E-mail: economytitle24@yahoo.com
1 to 3,000 Square Feet $125.00
3,001 to 6,000 Square Feet $150.00
6,001 to 10,000 Square Feet $175.00


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## mark handler (Jun 17, 2019)

*Use a mini-split for the space*





pathanay said:


> Thanks all. I guess I might need to install central heat...
> 
> I don't know if I can get into the performance compliance calculations. It's an older home and I have no idea about insulation (if any!) R values, fenestration SHGCs, etc.


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## pathanay (Jul 8, 2019)

I like mini-splits except that the cost of multiple units really adds up. Would it ok (code-wise) to have a mini-split in the main living area, and a "thru wall transfer" vent to heat the bedroom?

I see a couple of products like:
https://www.tjernlund.com/airshare_ventilation.htm
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Suncourt-Thru-Wall-Fan-Hardwired-Variable-Speed-TW208P/202950610

but I don't know if they are Title 24 compliant.

I understand it's not ideal for noise and privacy, but I'm on a tight budget.

Thanks.


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## Robert (Jul 20, 2019)

I've used one of those and it was approved. Another option is to use a min-duct mini-split model. The one posted above is a ductless one, but you can get a mini-duct model from the same company. mount the blower in a closet/attic with return air, and run a couple small ducts to the rooms you want heat in. The ducts can fit into a wall or joist bay. or hide them in a soffit. Nice way to go because you don't have to see the unit.


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## ICE (Jul 20, 2019)

pathanay said:


> I like mini-splits except that the cost of multiple units really adds up. Would it ok (code-wise) to have a mini-split in the main living area, and a "thru wall transfer" vent to heat the bedroom?
> 
> I see a couple of products like:
> https://www.tjernlund.com/airshare_ventilation.htm
> ...


I don't think there will be any Title 24 issues.


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## ADAguy (Jul 31, 2019)

Other than power consumption and you could off set that with solar panels, almost free AC.


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## mark handler (Jul 31, 2019)

ADAguy said:


> Other than power consumption and you could off set that with solar panels, almost free AC.


with solar storage


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