# So you're going to allow homeowners to work on their systems



## brudgers (Feb 12, 2010)

How will a homowner comply with:

P2904.7 Instructions and signs. An owner's manual for the fire sprinkler system shall be provided to the owner. A sign or valve tag shall be installed at the main shutoff valve to the water distribution system stating the following: "Warning, the water system for this home supplies fire sprinklers that require certain flows and pressures to fight a fire. Devices that restrict the flow or decrease the pressure or automatically shut off the water to the fire sprinkler system, such as water softeners, filtration systems and automatic shutoff valves, shall not be added to this system without a review of the fire sprinkler system by a fire protection specialist. Do not remove this sign."http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_29_sec004_par030.htm

when performing a renovation or addition?  How does a homeowner become a fire protection specialist?

Is the homeowner required to provide a manual to theirself?

And suppose on a renovation, the manual from the initial system states something along the lines of:  "In case of repairs or additions, the owner shall call XYZ Sprinklers to make all alterations and repairs."  Are you going to enforce that?

Can you enforce the tag at all since the code only states that it must be present?

If a code official reviews homeowner prepared modifications, does the code official become the fire protection specialist?

Like much of the Ick, it's not just bad code but it's poorly written as well.


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## Mule (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: So you're going to allow homeowners to work on their systems

As with any new code there will be problems working through all of the new requirements.

That's why codes are ammended, deleted, added too, and so on!


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## brudgers (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: So you're going to allow homeowners to work on their systems



			
				Mule said:
			
		

> As with any new code there will be problems working through all of the new requirements. That's why codes are ammended, deleted, added too, and so on!


The hard work of sorting out the problems is supposed to be done before the code is modified.

That is why the Ick is such bad code.

There's no patience.

There's no planning.

There's no motivation to get it right.

The hard work of sorting out the problems is supposed to be done before the code is modified.

Instead, it's a half-assed double cluster-flop based on personal agendas, pet peeves, and construction industry lobbying.

The process is irreparable because it's all about winning and losing not creating good public policy.


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## brudgers (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: So you're going to allow homeowners to work on their systems



			
				Mule said:
			
		

> As with any new code there will be problems working through all of the new requirements. That's why codes are ammended, deleted, added too, and so on!


Imagine that same approach applied to construction...sure the column doesn't support the load, but we'll stack some tricycles under it when the beam starts to sag.


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: So you're going to allow homeowners to work on their systems



> So you're going to allow homeowners to work on their systems


Simple answer

Yep


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## brudgers (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: So you're going to allow homeowners to work on their systems



			
				mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> > So you're going to allow homeowners to work on their systems


Simple answer

Yep

So for the purposes of a renovation, every homeowner is a fire protection specialist.


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## High Desert (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: So you're going to allow homeowners to work on their systems

It's special interest groups getting it in the code by any means necessary without any thought to how it will be regulated.


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## Uncle Bob (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: So you're going to allow homeowners to work on their systems

2009 IRC, R102.2 Other Laws.  "The provisions of this code shall not be deemed to nullify any provisions of local, state or federal law."

Most states have laws that reserve certain rights to homeowners.  The code requirement may not nullify those rights.

P2904.7 only applies if you attempt to install "devices that restrict the flow or decrease the pressure or automatically shut off the water to the fire sprinkler system, such as water softeners, filtration systems and automatic shuoff valves, (they) shall not be added to this system without a review of the fire sprinkler system by a fire protection specialist."

Has nothing to do with the installation of fire sprinkler systems where the above devises are not added.

Uncle Bob


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## Mule (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: So you're going to allow homeowners to work on their systems



			
				brudgers said:
			
		

> How will a homowner comply with:P2904.7 Instructions and signs. An owner's manual for the fire sprinkler system shall be provided to the owner. A sign or valve tag shall be installed at the main shutoff valve to the water distribution system stating the following: "Warning, the water system for this home supplies fire sprinklers that require certain flows and pressures to fight a fire. Devices that restrict the flow or decrease the pressure or automatically shut off the water to the fire sprinkler system, such as water softeners, filtration systems and automatic shutoff valves, shall not be added to this system without a review of the fire sprinkler system by a fire protection specialist. Do not remove this sign."http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_29_sec004_par030.htm
> 
> when performing a renovation or addition?  How does a homeowner become a fire protection specialist?
> 
> If a code official reviews homeowner prepared modifications, does the code official become the fire protection specialist?


*Devices that restrict the flow or decrease the pressure or automatically shut off the water to the fire sprinkler system, such as water softeners, filtration systems and automatic shutoff valves, shall not be added *to this system without a review of the fire sprinkler system by a fire protection specialist. Do not remove this sign."

The way I read it is that if the homeowner wants to add one of the devices listed above, then a fire protection specialist must review the fire sprinkler system to ensure that the device added would not affect the fire sprinkler system.


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## Uncle Bob (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: So you're going to allow homeowners to work on their systems

Mule,

We were talking at the same time.   :lol:

Saying, basically the same thing.

Uncle Bob


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## Mule (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: So you're going to allow homeowners to work on their systems

Great minds think alike.........and at the same time!! :ugeek:


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## brudgers (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: So you're going to allow homeowners to work on their systems



			
				Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> 2009 IRC, R102.2 Other Laws.  "The provisions of this code shall not be deemed to nullify any provisions of local, state or federal law."Most states have laws that reserve certain rights to homeowners.  The code requirement may not nullify those rights.
> 
> P2904.7 only applies if you attempt to install "devices that restrict the flow or decrease the pressure or automatically shut off the water to the fire sprinkler system, such as water softeners, filtration systems and automatic shuoff valves, (they) shall not be added to this system without a review of the fire sprinkler system by a fire protection specialist."
> 
> ...


Extending the spinkler piping will do which of them?


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: So you're going to allow homeowners to work on their systems



> So for the purposes of a renovation, every homeowner is a fire protection specialist.


Yep and every homeowner is also a designer, electrician, plumber, HVAC, gas fitter, mason, carpenter, framer, roofer, drywaller, tile setter, steel erector, welder and anything else he/she wants to do on the home they own and reside in.

As UB pointed out



> Most states have laws that reserve certain rights to homeowners. The code requirement may not nullify those rights.


Last I looked Montana reservered those rights to a homeowner.


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