# Requesting Variance for Sprinklers



## Chuck B (Mar 17, 2020)

We own a construction company and we currently have a Steel Building the size is 80 x 200. Occupancy class is S-1 and Construction type is 2-B.  Before construction we were told property taxes would be approx. $4,000.  Not the case they are $17,000 instead. We decided to utilize 80 x 140 of the building into an events venue.  We are all flat ground level.  Consisting of Metal walls and roof and 8 inch thick concrete floors with in floor heat.   There are (4) man doors (9)  16 x 16 garage doors and (2) 12 x 14 garage doors.  All the man doors and garage doors go right out to the parking lot ground level.  We installed 2 handicap accessible bathrooms which is approx. 600 square feet.  Nothing in this building can burn except the bathrooms which are small.  I am asking for Occupancy of at least 600 people because of the size of the building.  The Code Enforcement Officer/ township/ UCC Board are saying I need a sprinkler system.  Is there anything I can say to no have sprinklers in a building that cant burn?  Anyone that can help me would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance.


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## classicT (Mar 17, 2020)

NO!

Put them in!


**EDIT**Sorry for the blunt response....but we should not give credence to such a request by providing any indication of alternatives. The AHJ has indicated what they require; any further elaboration is not ours to make.


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## cda (Mar 17, 2020)

Well when you turned it into a place of assembly, that is what really kicked in a fire sprinkler system.


Building may not burn

But contents put in do

And six hundred people also burn 

Sorry figure out another business use, that would not require sprinklers


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## e hilton (Mar 17, 2020)

Just think of all the other options that would open up if you sprinkled the building.


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## Pcinspector1 (Mar 17, 2020)

Can the municipality provide the required flow rate for the sprinklers?


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## TheCommish (Mar 17, 2020)

Why the difference in property taxes, incorrect information provided or incorrect assessment? what did the building cost to build, what is it valued at, what would it cost to replace, is this value near the assessed value? Or is the tax include personal property stored in the building?
A construction company that was going to store what in the building? commercial motor vehicles, lumber?
event venue meaning what, raves, bar, night club or banquet hall?


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## cda (Mar 17, 2020)

Pennsylvania


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## jar546 (Mar 18, 2020)

This is another example of the mentality of the State of Pennsylvania.  Summit Township or Butler, Pennsylvania does not have the right to amend the code, even with a UCC appeals board but they just might overstep their boundaries and approved something like this even though it is not the purpose of the appeals board.  Here we have another hit and run with a contractor asking an absurd question with one post, never to be seen again.  
I had to do an inspection in PA one time for a Township that needed help while someone was on vacation.  It was for a summer camp and they added another building as sleeping quarters for attendees of the camp.  The camp was for children coming from the NYC area.  They did not want to sprinkler the new building so they filed an appeal to the official's decision that sprinklers were needed and the board approved them adding smoke detectors in the place of sprinklers.  The board had no authority to do such a thing.  Now we have an excavating company acting as a GC that wants to put 600 people in a tin box and not sprinkler it due to their own ignorance.


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 18, 2020)

A 16,000 sq ft fire area  S-1 occupancy would still be required to have a fire suppression system. So it was a screw up from the beginning


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## Kearney.200 (Mar 18, 2020)

Just to add to it overhead garage doors are not exits


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## steveray (Mar 18, 2020)

I was thinking the same as MT....


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## my250r11 (Mar 18, 2020)

mtlogcabin said:


> A 16,000 sq ft fire area S-1 occupancy would still be required to have a fire suppression system. So it was a screw up from the beginning



Ditto!!!


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## Builder Bob (Mar 18, 2020)

Now now, he can claim the overhead door as an exit if the total allowable occupant load for the building is under 10........... Meanwhile, I am getting popcorn to watch this. Also just for thought, main exit has to be sufficient to handle 50% capacity of assembly......along with other issues ---- just out of curiosity, the two bathrooms are only 600 SF of the building , I believe plumbing fixtures would have to be added as well.


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## steveray (Mar 18, 2020)

Builder Bob said:


> 50% capacity of assembly......along with other issues



2/3 in CT...We take that one pretty seriously...


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## Pcinspector1 (Mar 18, 2020)

Can we get an exemption the mop sink and water fountain!


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## steveray (Mar 18, 2020)

Pcinspector1 said:


> Can we get an exemption the mop sink and water fountain!



Yes...for less than 15OL...


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## Rick18071 (Mar 19, 2020)

I had a easy time appealing sprinklers in PA once. This is true! Before I was inspecting I had a 2 story 90 year old building, R-2 on second floor and B on first. I wanted to build 2 apartments on first floor. This was a old coal mining town with connected houses with just wood walls between them and 1/2" water lines coming in with little pressure. Plan reviewer wanted sprinklers for first floor. I went to appeal but the borough said they had no UCC appeals board. I told them they had to per state law. I was told to make one myself. So I got 4 other landwards and we voted to approve the appeal. It was all done legally with the towns solicitor. I did not vote since I did not think it was ethical. I quit the board after that.


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## VillageInspector (Mar 24, 2020)

It never ceases to frustrate the hell out of me when people put money before human lives. You want to put 600 people in this oversized tin shed but don't want to pay to protect them. Even if it were not required, which by the way from where I sit it is required to be sprinkled , human decency has to come into the equation at some point I would hope.


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## e hilton (Mar 24, 2020)

If there was some way to guarantee that at least half the overhead doors were open during events, it might fly.  But there’s no guarantee, and in cold or rainy weather you know every door will be closed.


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## fatboy (Mar 24, 2020)

Well Chuck B, I think you have seen the response of the professionals on this forum. This is the same response you would hear from an appeals board. They can't, it is code, not an interpretation. Put the system in.


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## jar546 (Mar 24, 2020)

VillageInspector said:


> It never ceases to frustrate the hell out of me when people put money before human lives. You want to put 600 people in this oversized tin shed but don't want to pay to protect them. Even if it were not required, which by the way from where I sit it is required to be sprinkled , human decency has to come into the equation at some point I would hope.



I could not have said it better


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## ADAguy (Mar 25, 2020)

jar546 said:


> I could not have said it better



Obviously he can't or doesn't read newspapers, think Ghost Ship Oakland and nightclub fires.
Ask your insurance company if they will insure it without them.


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