# Grease Vapor Measurements



## CrepeMan (Aug 8, 2013)

Hi

I am starting a crepe shop. The crepes will be cooked on electric griddles. Specifically, griddles made by Equinox.

Our recipe for the crepe batter does not include butter but it does include vegetable oil, about 1/5 a teaspoon per crepe. Would the milk in the recipe produce grease? We put things like butter and nutella on the crepe after it is mostly cooked and has been flipped.

My question is:

How can I get an idea of how much grease vapor this will produce? My local inspector said that a new guideline came out this year that might allow me to not have to get a hood. That guideline states:

4.1.1.1- Cooking equipment that has been listed in accordance with ANSI/UL 197 or an equivalent standard for reduced emissions shall not be required to be provided with an exhaust system

4.1.1.2- The listing evaluation of cooking equipment covered by 4.1.1.1 shall demonstrate that the grease discharge at the exhaust duct of a test hood placed over the appliance shall not exceed 5mg/m3 (0.00018 oz/ft3) when operated with a total airflow of 0.236m3/s (500 cfm).

Can anyone tell me how to get an idea as to why I might fall in relation to this guideline??

Thank you very, very much in advance, for any insight you can provide


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## cda (Aug 8, 2013)

Well welcome

Now you know we have to do some field evaluation of this.

I like apples with mine.

Have not heard how the evaluation is done. I have seen crepes cooked before, and not sure if I would require a type I hood.

How many griddles were you planning on having??

Keep checking and you should get some good answers


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## cda (Aug 8, 2013)

Can't be much worse than a waffle maker at la quinta


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## cda (Aug 8, 2013)

UL. Looks like will test to you

But more than likely it will cost more than a hood

http://www.merrychef.com/asset/?id=qieav


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## cda (Aug 8, 2013)

maybe this will give you and the inspector some help as far as guidance::

check "procedures" and "standards" at the bottom and look at "standards item # 3"

http://www.ccdeh.com/document/doc_view/140-cooking-equipment-exhaust-ventilation-exemption-guide

also::

http://www.ccdeh.com/document/doc_view/128-recommended-formulas-for-mechanical-ventilation-for-specific-equipment


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## cda (Aug 8, 2013)

one crepe disscussion

http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/commercial-mechanical-codes/842-type-i-type-ii-commercial-kitchen-hoods.html


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## Rick18071 (Aug 8, 2013)

What's to stop you from cooking hamburgers?


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## cda (Aug 8, 2013)

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> What's to stop you from cooking hamburgers?


On a crepe cooker?


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## tmurray (Aug 8, 2013)

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> What's to stop you from cooking hamburgers?


I usually only evaluate to what the designer tells me is going on. Continuous compliance inspection is handled through the fire marshal who would require compliance as violations arise.

This statement starts you down a slippery slope and usually ends with you in the mayors office being questioned as to why you are stifling development.


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## mark handler (Aug 8, 2013)

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> What's to stop you from cooking hamburgers?


Annual health department inspection as well as Annual fire inspection....


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## Frank (Aug 8, 2013)

The sections you are referencing are intended for certain listed appliances with built in hoods and filters, eletrostatic preciptators etc and would not apply in your situation.

It is an interesting question from the 2009 code--

507.2 Where required. A Type I or Type II hood shall be installed at or above all commercial cooking appliances in accordance with Sections 507.2.1 and 507.2.2. Where any cooking appliance under a single hood requires a Type I hood, a Type I hood shall be installed. Where a Type II hood is required, a Type I or Type II hood shall be installed.

507.2.1 Type I hoods. Type I hoods shall be installed where cooking appliances produce grease or smoke. Type I hoods shall be installed over medium-duty, heavy-duty and extra-heavy-duty cooking appliances. Type I hoods shall be installed over light-duty cooking appliances that produce grease or smoke.

507.2.2 Type II hoods. Type II hoods shall be installed above dishwashers and light-duty appliances that produce heat or moisture and do not produce grease or smoke, except where the heat and moisture loads from such appliances are incorporated into the HVAC system design or into the design of a separate removal system. Type II hoods shall be installed above all light-duty appliances that produce products of combustion and do not produce grease or smoke. Spaces containing cooking appliances that do not require Type II hoods shall be ventilated in accordance with Section 403.3. For the purpose of determining the floor area required to be ventilated, each individual appliance that is not required to be installed under a Type II hood shall be considered as occupying not less than 100 square feet (9.3 m2).

The electric crepe griddle would generally be considered a medium duty appliance.

The question under 507.2.1 becomes do the electric crepe griddles produce grease or smoke in significant amounts and how usable are they for say frying bacon.

If they are the round with little or no lip type crepe griddles I see online the use for bacon etc is unlikely as grease would run all over.

In retrospect it is easy to determine if producing grease laden vapors in existing situations by using the finger swipe test--swipe finger on the wall behind or counter bside and do you feel grease?


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## mark handler (Aug 8, 2013)

cda said:
			
		

> maybe this will give you and the inspector some help as far as guidance::check "procedures" and "standards" at the bottom and look at "standards item # 3"
> 
> http://www.ccdeh.com/document/doc_view/140-cooking-equipment-exhaust-ventilation-exemption-guide
> 
> ...


California does not use the IMC the comments are UMC


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## cda (Aug 8, 2013)

Frank said:
			
		

> The sections you are referencing are intended for certain listed appliances with built in hoods and filters, eletrostatic preciptators etc and would not apply in your situation. It is an interesting question from the 2009 code--
> 
> 507.2 Where required. A Type I or Type II hood shall be installed at or above all commercial cooking appliances in accordance with Sections 507.2.1 and 507.2.2. Where any cooking appliance under a single hood requires a Type I hood, a Type I hood shall be installed. Where a Type II hood is required, a Type I or Type II hood shall be installed.
> 
> ...


Is that for sure ?

Appears to me that if you wanted an appliance and certain cooking method you can pay for the test??

http://www.merrychef.com/asset/?id=qieav


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## CrepeMan (Aug 9, 2013)

Thank you all for your replies and information.

It appears that some people think the code says if you have grease vapors, you need a type I hood. It also seems that some people agree that if you have a very insignificant amount of grease, it can potentially not need a hood.

To me, the code I mentioned in my original post (see top of thread), referencing UL 197 and the cubic measurements of grease, seems to imply that the code doesn't mean to force hoods upon people cooking things that don't produce a material amount of grease. I agree with this analysis. I disagree with those who said that every appliance should require a hood. I don't think a sandwich shop with a panini press requires one. I don't think a waffle maker requires one. I don't see towns forcing people with such appliances to install hoods and I think if they did, it would be excessive.

*My question, at this point, is how do I test the grease level produced? Or has crepe cooking been tested by someone where the results are publicly available, where I could reference typical grease vapor levels? I live in New Hampshire, is there any local place that can conduct this test for me?*

For those referencing the need for a menu, the crepe recipe is in my original post. As for toppings, it would be things like nutella, cinnamon and sugar, bananas, ham & cheese, and maybe sliced tomatoes in there too. However, these toppings don't need to be cooked. Maybe we could even get a warming plate to move the crepe to and then spread the toppings on at that point? No bacon or sausage (or hamburgers!) would be cooked on the griddles. None of the ingredients, besides the crepe mix, would generally come into direct contact with the griddle top anyhow.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts. It was great to have so many responses to read through and consider.


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## cda (Aug 9, 2013)

Two things

More than likely testing is going to cost a lot of money. Appears underwriters lab does testing and there has to be other labs that do also.

I think try to set down with the city and start with the inspector and go up the chain. Try to convince them what you do is no worse than a waffle maker or the like. Even demo what you do.

Before that you might hit hotels that let guest make there own waffles

And check like ice cream shops that make waffle cones on site or any other cooking place you can think of that does not have a vent a hood but cooks

Even the gas stations that have the hit dog cooker rollers

Take pictures and show them to city officials of examples where cooking is allowed with out a hood

Even if you have to use their appeals process


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