# Egress from Fenced Enclosure



## LGreene (Dec 21, 2010)

I wrote a couple of blog posts about egress from a rooftop garden (http://idighardware.com/2010/10/rooftop-garden/) and egress from an enclosed courtyard (http://idighardware.com/2010/11/courtyards/), and someone asked me a follow-up question about egress from a fenced enclosure like a day care center playground, for example.

This was his exact question:  _"Would a tall fenced-in playground with no other exit except through the building count as a courtyard? Up to now, there’s been a lockset on this door at a kindergarten and a teacher accidentally got locked out. Even though this concerned them a bit, they seem more concerned about someone getting over the fence and having access to the school."_

Can you guys point me in the right direction on this one?  I usually start with the 2009 IBC and work backwards looking for changes, but I'll take any guidance you can give me.


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 21, 2010)

> _"Would a tall fenced-in playground with no other exit except through the building count as a courtyard?_





> _there’s been a lockset on this door at a kindergarten and a teacher accidentally got locked out_


No not with the lockset on the door

1004.8 Outdoor areas.

Yards, patios, courts and similar outdoor areas accessible to and usable by the building occupants shall be provided with means of egress as required by this chapter. The occupant load of such outdoor areas shall be assigned by the building official in accordance with the anticipated use. Where outdoor areas are to be used by persons in addition to the occupants of the building, and the path of egress travel from the outdoor areas passes through the building, means of egress requirements for the building shall be based on the sum of the occupant loads of the building plus the outdoor areas.

Exceptions:

1. Outdoor areas used exclusively for service of the building need only have one means of egress .

1027.1 General.

Exits shall discharge directly to the exterior of the building. The exit discharge shall be at grade or shall provide direct access to grade. The exit discharge shall not reenter a building.

1027.6 Access to a public way.

The exit discharge shall provide a direct and unobstructed access to a public way .

Exception: Where access to a public way cannot be provided, a safe dispersal area shall be provided where all of the following are met:

1. The area shall be of a size to accommodate at least 5 square feet (0.46 m2) for each person.

2. The area shall be located on the same lot at least 50 feet (15 240 mm) away from the building requiring egress.

3. The area shall be permanently maintained and identified as a safe dispersal area.

4. The area shall be provided with a safe and unobstructed path of travel from the building.


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## Rick18071 (Dec 27, 2010)

So if you are entering the building once to exit from the yard you are not reentering?


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## mark handler (Dec 27, 2010)

I have done several "daycare" facilities, and have been required by the AHJ to put in panic devices in the fenced-in playground. This prevents the kids from reentering the burning building to exit


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## jpranch (Dec 27, 2010)

mark handler said:
			
		

> I have done several "daycare" facilities, and have been required by the AHJ to put in panic devices in the fenced-in playground. This prevents the kids from reentering the burning building to exit


mark, I have required the same. Recently done some high occupancy assembly buildings with associated daycare. One building had a leasure pool (with a "lazy river). That single area of the building had a occupant load of 350. Two of the required exits (there was a travel distance issue as well) discharged into a fenced area. There were 2 gates. I required both gates to have panic hardware.

Note: The facility was 186,000 sq. ft. with a total occupant load of 1,600.


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## LGreene (Dec 28, 2010)

Thanks everyone!


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## Rick18071 (Dec 28, 2010)

Does a balcony need it's own exit? Had a very large deck for a bar last year with the only exit through the building. It was only two feet above grade with a 8' wall around it. They called it a balcony and it fits the definition of a balcony. Should it have it's own exit?


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## texasbo (Dec 28, 2010)

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> Does a balcony need it's own exit? Had a very large deck for a bar last year with the only exit through the building. It was only two feet above grade with a 8' wall around it. They called it a balcony and it fits the definition of a balcony. Should it have it's own exit?


Absolutely. However, there is nothing wrong with the balcony exiting through an adjoining space as part of the egress path. You must simply provide exits for it as if it was another room. Number of exits, door swing, hardware, width, all must be considered.

This is the same with the daycare situation. There is nothing that would prohibit using the building as an adjoining space as part of the egress path. In daycare situations it is often easier to make the playground large enough to be a "safe dispersal area", as posted above, Then the playground does not need gates in the fence with panic hardware. Gates are typically not desired by the owner/operator.


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## TimNY (Dec 28, 2010)

Panic hardware on gates from the fenced area to the right-of-way, unless the fence extends a certain amount from the building.. I think it was 200'.  This may be a NYSED thing, been a while since I dealt with it.  Absolutely cannot re-enter building.


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## texasbo (Dec 28, 2010)

Tim - are you thinking the 200' or not using the building as egress path (or both) is a NY thing? 1004.8 specifically allows the outdoor space to use the building as egress path. 1027.6 only requires 50' from building for a safe dispersal area.


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## TimNY (Dec 28, 2010)

texasbo said:
			
		

> Tim - are you thinking the 200' or not using the building as egress path (or both) is a NY thing? 1004.8 specifically allows the outdoor space to use the building as egress path. 1027.6 only requires 50' from building for a safe dispersal area.


texasbo-

I guess it must be a NYSED thing or when I had to deal with this it was a  different code (not sure if there have been changes to the IBC), but I  distinctly remember that they could not re-enter the school.  I would  add this was a pre-existing school (no sprinklers, manual fire alarm  only), so I am probably muddying this thread with irrelevant banter.

To address the OP, if we are going to use the building as part of the means of egress, the door from the yard to the building:

1.  Must be readily operable from the egress side, so the door cannot be locked at any time.  The could alarm the door to alert them of entry.

2.  Number of exits from the yard must comply based on occupancy load.  Is there a number for this? 1 per 15? 1 per 5? 1 per 50?

3.  Common path of egress travel cannot exceed 75 feet (or 100 feet if  the building is sprinklered), so a 50x50 (unsprinklered) yard would need  two remotely located exits through the building or a gate

4.  Exit access from the most remote point of the yard to the exit is  limited to 200' (250' sprinklered), which may or may not be an issue.   Could run into a required exit enclosure if exiting through the building

(btw texasbo, thanks for posting the sections, makes discussion much easier!)


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 28, 2010)

_"Would a tall fenced-in playground with no other exit except through the building count as a courtyard?_

_there’s been a lockset on this door at a kindergarten and a teacher accidentally got locked out_

No not with the lockset on the door

1004.8 Outdoor areas.

Yards, patios, courts and similar outdoor areas accessible to and usable by the building occupants shall be provided with means of egress as required by this chapter. The occupant load of such outdoor areas shall be assigned by the building official in accordance with the anticipated use. Where outdoor areas are to be used by persons in addition to the occupants of the building, and the path of egress travel from the outdoor areas passes through the building, means of egress requirements for the building shall be based on the sum of the occupant loads of the building plus the outdoor areas.

Exceptions:

1. Outdoor areas used exclusively for service of the building need only have one means of egress .

I forgot to point this out in my first post. A play area for a kindergarden or daycare would be an exclusive service for that building or portion thereof and only one exit from that area is required. If the door leading back into the school from the playground is an exit discharge for the building or a room then you can not re-enter that door as an exit from the outdoor playground. Another exit must be provided. 

TimNY

1. Agree

2. See 1004.8 exception #1

3. See 1004.8 exception #1

4. Does not apply to outdoor areas


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## TimNY (Dec 28, 2010)

#2, #3 I would interpret "outdoor areas for service of the building" to mean the space is only utilized to service/maintain the building, as opposed to use by occupants of the building.  I believe if it meant otherwise, there would be no point in the exception, as everything would be exempt; put differently, if this includes use of the yard by the occupants, I don't know what _wouldn't_ be covered by the exception.

#4, upon reading the definition of exit access, I would agree with you; exit access would apply once you stepped into the building, but it should already be compliant!


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 28, 2010)

See your point will have to rethink my position.

If a playground/outdoor area can meet the requirements of a "safe dispersal area" then no exits would be required through the fence/wall correct?


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## TimNY (Dec 28, 2010)

_If a playground/outdoor area can meet the requirements of a "safe dispersal area" then no exits would be required through the fence/wall correct?_

I agree.


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## texasbo (Dec 28, 2010)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> See your point will have to rethink my position.If a playground/outdoor area can meet the requirements of a "safe dispersal area" then no exits would be required through the fence/wall correct?


Correct, and with daycares, it's usually easy. I agree with everything you've said, except like Tim, I don't think it would meet outdoor areas for service of building.


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 28, 2010)

The commentary states "the exception describe conditions where the combination of occupant loads is not a concern"

Not very helpfull :-(


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## LGreene (Dec 28, 2010)

Have I told you all how helpful you are??  Thank you so much for your help!


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## peach (Dec 28, 2010)

There are exterior panic devices that work just fine..


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## TimNY (Dec 28, 2010)

peach said:
			
		

> There are exterior panic devices that work just fine..


In my situation that is exactly what was installed.


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