# ICC opinion on spiral stair



## BSSTG (Apr 3, 2012)

Greetings to all,

Some bitter things have were said and as a result the thread was closed in the fire section. I hope everybody has gotten over it.

Anyway, here is the opinion that I received back from ICC on the stair question today.

April 3, 2012

Questions: Should the requirements in this section apply to all spiral stairs even if the spirals are not required for a means of egress? To put it another way, a compliant stairway is provided for the required egress from a second story. Should an additional spiral stair, if installed, be required to meet the requirements of 311.7.9.1?

Answer: Spiral stairways, whether intended as egress stairways or supplementary stairways, shall comply with Section R311.7.9.1.

Philip Hahn, RA | Senior Staff Architect | Architectural & Engineering Services

International Code Council, Inc. | 4051 W. Flossmoor Rd., Country Club Hills, IL 60478

Code opinions issued by ICC staff are based on ICC published codes and do not include local, state or federal codes, policies or amendments. This opinion is based on the information which you have provided. We have made no independent effort to verify the accuracy of this information nor have we conducted a review beyond the scope of your question. This opinion does not imply approval of an equivalency, specific product, specific design, or specific installation and cannot be published in any form implying such approval by the International Code Council. As this opinion is only advisory, the final decision is the responsibility of the designated authority charged with the administration and enforcement of this code.

Have a Blessed Day!

BS


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## gbhammer (Apr 3, 2012)

AH sweet redemption.


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## cda (Apr 3, 2012)

read the disclaimer


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## gbhammer (Apr 3, 2012)

So BSSTG as the AHJ are you for taking the ex-mayor to the mattresses or letting him be.


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## BSSTG (Apr 3, 2012)

Greetings again,

At this point all I'm doing is passing the info onto the powers that be since there is an ongoing variance request. I've shaken the tree enough already. I know the disclaimer states only "advisory", so they can do whatever. I do think the ICC needs to address this though.

BS


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## gbhammer (Apr 3, 2012)

The disclaimer means little or nothing as the entire code is subject to interpretation and every jurisdiction will treat each section differently depending on the BO in charge. That is the way of the world.


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## north star (Apr 3, 2012)

*= & =*





> "The disclaimer means little or nothing as the entire code is subject to interpretation and everyjurisdiction will treat each section differently depending on the BO in charge. That is the way of the
> 
> world."


As it should be " gb "!......Each jurisdiction should be allowed tointerpret / administer the codes as they see fit.

*= & =*


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## DRP (Apr 3, 2012)

Replace the word codes above with the word laws and run that by me again.


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Apr 3, 2012)

Thanks BSSTG!  I wish the actual code, or commentary actually said that.  Seems so easy.  Must have hit their word maximum with the printers.


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## codeworks (Apr 3, 2012)

in reponse to DRP:  well, that's how it happens in lawsuits, right. but generally only when it comes to "failure to exercise good judgement" or being negligent in ones duties as a building code inspector. why is not that way (sic)  when we're doing our inspections and reviews. which is why documentation and consistency and holding to the letter and intent is so important. and yes, the icc publishes the codes, but they don't run all building departments everywhere. it's an "official opinion", just like the bo gives an "official interpretation" i agree with the icc on this issue, sans the disclaimer


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## north star (Apr 3, 2012)

*=*

DRP,

No disrespect intended, but do you believe that it is not that

way now? ...and, would you want allow me to govern your

jurisdiction by what I think / believe / desire instead of

what you believe is best for yours?

*=*


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## mtlogcabin (Apr 3, 2012)

The posted speed limit is the law but the officer and department policy will determine if you get a ticket/warning at 1, 5 or 10 MPH over that posted speed limit law


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## ICE (Apr 3, 2012)

Did you give them a fake name?


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## imhotep (Apr 3, 2012)

gbhammer said:
			
		

> AH sweet redemption.


http://theberry.com/2010/07/08/try-not-to-trip-and-fall-on-these-crazy-stairs-14-photos/


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Apr 3, 2012)

imhotep said:
			
		

> http://theberry.com/2010/07/08/try-not-to-trip-and-fall-on-these-crazy-stairs-14-photos/


Dag-nabbit, I was hoping to see more stairs...most of those were just book-cases.  They certainly meet Renee Magritte's definition of not-a-stair.

If memory serves me correctly, the first stair is actually in California.


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## jim baird (Apr 3, 2012)

...so anything that claims to be, or is represented as a duck must look, waddle, and quack to make muster.

Recently the local AHJ had the lawyer draft a "nuisance" ordinance so they could go after some abandoned properties in a very direct way...the lawyer left the question of what penalties or fines should be assesed toward violators.  He told Council it was up to them...they were flatfooted, like deer in the headlights.  I piped up from the p-nut gallery and suggested that was why we have a judge....to make that kind of decision.  I don't think I was well heard, and I don't know yet if they ever decided.

Only times I ever called ICC or SBCCI re opinions they always dumped the onus back on local authority...which is the most democratic thing to do (as in local control of affairs).


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## imhotep (Apr 3, 2012)

Papio Bldg Dept said:
			
		

> Dag-nabbit, I was hoping to see more stairs...most of those were just book-cases.  They certainly meet Renee Magritte's definition of not-a-stair.If memory serves me correctly, the first stair is actually in California.


More non-complying thingy's.  Apply MOE provisions and move on.

http://chippep.blogspot.com/2010/10/stairs-as-art.html


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## Architect1281 (Apr 5, 2012)

Or Nautilus Book shelf plant stands?

How many award winning home designs do you see with unique (oops - questionably compliant) designs.


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## BSSTG (Apr 5, 2012)

Greetings

Well after a long session with the city atrorney today on any number of subjects, the spiral did come up again. He told me that he defended my actions to a local judge who happened to be related to the "stair installer". He reassured the judge that I was doing exactly what they hired me to do, render opinions and take action if need be. Furthermore, the property owner is doing just what he should do, go for a legal variance if he so desires. It's the system and it is working.

All said, those are some pretty cool pics on this thread. I had no idea. Funny too, I ran into another spiral in a business today that is even worse than the last one and it is supposed to be the primary egress from the second floor. I had to really laugh at that. The dude renting the building most of though I'm nuts. Maybe that's the case!

BS


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## brudgers (Apr 6, 2012)

The ICC's interpretation would require handrails on the red stair in Eisenman's House VI.


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