# code vrs manufacturors guidelines



## BSSTG (Jul 8, 2013)

Greetings all,

I hope everyone had a great 4th weekend. I spent time with the grandkids and it was great!

Back to work. On July 3rd on my way home I stopped by a bowling alley we have that's being refurbished. They are trying to open this week. Since it is a remodel I didn't ever get a detail of the kitchen equipment submitted and I stamped the dwgs "subject to field correction". Most of it looking good until I looked at the pizza oven. Conveyor type electric. Thus it is considered a medium duty appliance and requires a type I hood per 09 IMC.

The hood guy calls me this am and is questioning what I said. I tell him no problem, send me an email and I will copy code references that he can sink his teeth into and return the email. OK fine, no problem. However, he says that manufacturors specs on the oven don't require that a type I be installed. I said ok bring them to me and we can talk about it and left if it that.

So, if the oven specs are requiring something less stringent can we do that even though it might be contrary to Code?

I'm still a capitalist even though I work amidst bureaurocrats, I want to save folks money as much as possible without getting into hot water otherwise.

thanksabunch

BSSTG


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## Mac (Jul 8, 2013)

Pizzas don't produce grease laden vapors anymore?


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## mjesse (Jul 8, 2013)

Depending on the equipment...

*2009 IMC - 507.1 **Exceptions: *

*2. Factory-built commercial cooking recirculating systems which are tested in accordance with UL 710B, **listed**, **labeled** and installed in accordance with Section 304.1 shall not be required to comply with Sections 507.4, 507.5, 507.7, 507.12, 507.13, 507.14 and 507.15. Spaces in which such systems are located shall be considered to be kitchens and shall be ventilated in accordance with Table 403.3. For the purpose of determining the floor area required to be ventilated, each individual **appliance** shall be considered as occupying not less than 100 square feet (9.3 m**2**).*

*Otherwise, gotta have it.*

*mj*


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## cda (Jul 8, 2013)

Code normally trumps manufacture and in this case I would say yes type I vent a hood, and only because code says so


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## Mark K (Jul 8, 2013)

If the manufacturer could trump the code it would result in a lot of games played to make their product "competitive".  This is part of the problem that I have with code provisions that require compliance with manufacturers recommendations.


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## BSSTG (Jul 8, 2013)

cda said:
			
		

> Code normally trumps manufacture and in this case I would say yes type I vent a hood, and only because code says so


Yessir I tend to agree. It's just one of those requirements I have an issue with to some extent. Oh well. I find myself reminding folks that I don't make up the rules, but I do have to enforce them, even the ones I am at odds with.

 thanks

BS


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## cda (Jul 8, 2013)

BSSTG said:
			
		

> Yessir I tend to agree. It's just one of those requirements I have an issue with to some extent. Oh well. I find myself reminding folks that I don't make up the rules, but I do have to enforce them, even the ones I am at odds with. thanks
> 
> BS


that about sums it up,

of course you can always propose code change, we will be right behind you chanting in the gallery no more pizza, no more pizza, no more pizza!!!!!!

free our pizza, free our pizza,!!!!!


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## globe trekker (Jul 8, 2013)

> Code normally trumps manufacture and in this case I would say yes type I vent a hood, and only because code says so


Is there a code section that states this "trumping" of the manufacturer, ..in any of the I-codes?

Which code section sets this precedence, ..please?

.


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## mtlogcabin (Jul 8, 2013)

2009 IMC

102.8 Referenced codes and standards.

The codes and standards referenced herein shall be those that are listed in Chapter 15 and such codes and standards shall be considered as part of the requirements of this code to the prescribed extent of each such reference. Where differences occur between provisions of this code and the referenced standards, the provisions of this code shall apply.

Exception: Where enforcement of a code provision would violate the conditions of the listing of the equipment or appliance , the conditions of the listing and the manufacturer's installation instructions shall apply.

304.2 Conflicts.

Where conflicts between this code and the conditions of listing or the manufacturer's installation instructions occur, the provisions of this code shall apply.

Exception: Where a code provision is less restrictive than the conditions of the listing of the equipment or appliance or the manufacturer's installation instructions, the conditions of the listing and the manufacturer's installation instructions shall apply.


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## klarenbeek (Jul 8, 2013)

New in the 2012 IMC:

507.2.1 Type I hoods. Type I hoods shall be installed where cooking appliances produce grease or smoke as a result of the cooking process. Type I hoods shall be

installed over medium-duty, heavy-duty and extra-heavy duty cooking appliances. Type I hoods shall be installed over light-duty cooking appliances that produce grease or

smoke.

Exception: A Type I hood shall not be required for an electric cooking appliance where an approved testing agency provides documentation that the appliance

effluent contains 5 mg/m3 or less of grease when tested at an exhaust flow rate of 500 cfm (0.236 m3/s) in accordance with Section 17 of UL 710B.

One of the other inspectors here has seen an electric conveyor oven that met this exception. You have to be careful what they actually cook in it though.  It was tested with pepperoni pizza, so UL said it would work for any type of pizza.  It was never tested for raw meats like chicken wings though. He approved the oven for use with pizza only.

I think the manufacturer was turbo chef, but I could be wrong.  Without meeting the exception, definitely a Type I though. It's a code requirement that doesn't void the listing of the appliance.


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## BSSTG (Jul 8, 2013)

Greetings all,

Ok. So we are going to have a conveyor pizza oven under a type I hood. It is the only equipment under this hood. How should the suppression system be designed for this? I know of some ovens that have built in suppression systems but this oven does not. Is the retardant to be sprayed over the entire oven or just entry and exit points? I know it would help if we have oven specs. I have not seen them. The oven was bought second hand and the specs may be difficult to find. I will not know till in the am.

BSSTG


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## peach (Jul 14, 2013)

manufacturer's installation instructions pretty much fall into the performance provisions allowed in the Code rather than the prescriptive approach.  Much of what we enforce in the code started out as manufacturer's guidelines.


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## spector51 (Nov 1, 2013)

It's going to be hard for you to convince me that a large peperoni pizza doesn't make grease!

especially when the grease is still swimming within the curled up edges of the slice.  The fake stuff they call cheese now (who knows what animal fat product they are processing into cheese these days), I am sure makes grease vapors.  I require type 1 hoods.


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## peach (Nov 2, 2013)

I agree.. if you can support with the Code it's a better option.


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## ICE (Nov 3, 2013)

I see that some of you have decided that if it is in the manufacture's installation instructions, it supersedes code.

Be careful about what you accept.

If there is a blatant code violation, further consideration is warranted.

It hasn't happened often but I have challenged a few listings and been upheld.  It's the same with installation instructions.

It's not like those folks never make a mistake.


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## peach (Nov 3, 2013)

The Codes are a minimum and, as I've learned over the years, far from completely inclusive of everything we see, and lagging technology.


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