# Third party certification of plug in equipment



## Joker (Aug 31, 2015)

A watch making company is opening up an approx. 2000 SF facility in our area. They have a bunch of plug in equipment(sewing machines, leather cutting machines etc.) from Italy that is only CE(not acceptable here) rated. My inspector asks for third party certification and of course we get the "It's only plug in equipment" and "There 5 other facilities that opened in the last __years elsewhere in the US and we talked to those facilities and bought the same equipment and no one has asked for this type of scrutiny."

Thoughts??


----------



## ICE (Aug 31, 2015)

The certification would cost more than the equipment.  Is a permit required for the equipment or just the receptacle that it plugs into?

I have run into my share of equipment that wasn't listed but each time, the equipment was hard wired.

Please let us know how this plays out.


----------



## steveray (Aug 31, 2015)

ICE said:
			
		

> The certification would cost more than the equipment.  Is a permit required for the equipment or just the receptacle that it plugs into?I have run into my share of equipment that wasn't listed but each time, the equipment was hard wired.
> 
> Please let us know how this plays out.


Like when they cut the plugs off of the hair dryers at the health club lockers rooms and hard wire them?


----------



## north star (Aug 31, 2015)

*% ~ % ~ %*

Joker,

Is the non-US listed "plug in equipment" the only discrepancy

for this proposed business,  or is it just one more straw on

the `ol wagon of discrepancies ?

FWIW, ...whenever I hear the `ol lament of *"well we've done*

*this elsewhere, ...for xxx years and no one has ever asked*

*for this requirement before"* statement, ...that is an immediate

"Red Flag" with me..........I am not saying it is a deal killer for me,

but that type of mentality right from the get go does not set well

with me.



*% ~ % ~ %*


----------



## mark handler (Aug 31, 2015)

So we should no longer inspect any Plug in appliances and fixtures like:

garbage disposers, exhaust hoods/fans, cooktops and ranges, Trash Compactors, Etcetera

Anything with a plug.....


----------



## conarb (Aug 31, 2015)

mark handler said:
			
		

> So we should no longer inspect any Plug in appliances and fixtures like: garbage disposers, exhaust hoods/fans, cooktops and ranges, Trash Compactors, Etcetera
> 
> Anything with a plug.....


When those "built-in" appliances first came out they were all hardwired, my understanding is that someone decided that for ease of removal and service to put plugs on them, if you start requiring certifications on them maybe you better require all furnishings be in a building so you can check lamps, radios, televisions, etc.  You have to draw the line somewhere, the connection between the structure and the appliance seems like the logical place.


----------



## mark handler (Aug 31, 2015)

Viking Range Expands Dishwasher Recall Due to Fire Hazard

http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2015/Viking-Range-Expands-Dishwasher-Recall/

Name of product: Dishwashers

Hazard: An electrical component in the dishwasher can overheat, posing a fire hazard.

Oh wow CE approved....


----------



## Msradell (Aug 31, 2015)

On the same basis when you inspect many homes they don't have appliances like refrigerators, stoves, etc. installed yet.  This is especially true in the case of spec homes were many times such appliances are not installed until the home is purchased so they can be picked up by the purchaser.  In cases like this the home is inspected and a CofO is issued in no inspection of the appliances to ensure that they were UL approved has occurred.  It seemed like it should be the same in a case like this, the building is inspected and all receptacles etc. meet the code, after that the owner/user of the facility can bring in whatever he wants.  We certainly don't go around checking computers, televisions, etc. so why should we go around checking sewing machines and other such items?


----------



## mark handler (Aug 31, 2015)

Cooper Lighting Recalls Fluorescent Lighting Fixtures Due to Fire Hazard

http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2015/Cooper-Lighting-Recalls-Fluorescent-Lighting-Fixtures/

Recall Summary

Cooper Lighting, Portfolio and Utilitech fluorescent lighting fixtures

Hazard: The socket can overheat, arc and melt, posing a fire hazard.

Oh wow, CE  and UL labled...


----------



## ICE (Aug 31, 2015)

mark handler said:
			
		

> So we should no longer inspect any Plug in appliances and fixtures like: garbage disposers, exhaust hoods/fans, cooktops and ranges, Trash Compactors, Etcetera
> 
> Anything with a plug.....


If they are fixed in place they get inspected....how about clothes washers and dryers..the answer is no.


----------



## conarb (Aug 31, 2015)

ICE said:
			
		

> If they are fixed in place they get inspected....how about clothes washers and dryers..the answer is no.


I've read that dryers cause more fires than all other appliances put together.


----------



## Joker (Aug 31, 2015)

North Star

That's the only problem. Thanks for weighing in.


----------



## Joker (Aug 31, 2015)

Ice, Northstar, conarb, Mark, Msradel, Steveray, thank you all for the input. I've also got a call into NFPA/NEC to get their take on it. The section of the NEC  my inspector cited was 110 (Electrical installations).  I personally think it's shaky due to that fact that it wasn't installed. I even looked for the definition of "installation" in the NEC and IBC  just in case.  Nothing. I  would not be surprised if they don't require it.


----------



## north star (Sep 1, 2015)

*& = &*

Joker,

The Articles in the NEC [  I'm looking in my `08 NEC  ] that you

"could" use are Article 110.2 - provides you with the authority,

...110.3(A) - provides the things to look for & consider  &  110.3(B)

- provides you with the enforcing language "listed & labeled

equipment shall be installed and used"...

If Article 110.3(B) is the section that your Inspector cited,

then I believe that they are correct.

If in citing this NEC Section, ...is this your established, adopted

& published departmental policy,  or is this the first occurrence ?

*& = &*


----------



## steveray (Sep 1, 2015)

conarb said:
			
		

> I've read that dryers cause more fires than all other appliances put together.


Typically the people cause the fire....the dryer gets blamed because it is not self cleaning...Poor dryer....


----------



## mark handler (Sep 1, 2015)

CAUSES OF HOME FIRES

http://www.nfpa.org/safety-information/for-consumers/causes

Candles The top three days for home candle fires are Christmas, New Year's Day and Christmas Eve.

Cooking Includes general cooking safety info, as well as tips for microwaves, cooking oil and turkey fryers.

Electrical Safety in the home with circuit interrupters

Heating The peak months for home heating fires are December, January and February.

Smoking Smoking materials (i.e., cigarettes, cigars, pipes, etc.) are the leading cause of fire deaths in the United States.

Dryers and washing machines The leading cause of home clothes dryer and washer fires is failure to clean them.

Medical oxygen Portable medical oxygen in the home has grown over the past decade.

Portable generators The most common dangers with portable generators are carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning, electrical shock, and fire hazards.

Scalds Scald burns can be caused by any hot liquid, fluid, or vapor, including hot tap water, overheated beverages, steam, and hot oil.

Portable fireplaces The fuel, device and open flame from these products can be dangerous.


----------



## Msradell (Sep 1, 2015)

Probably in



			
				north star said:
			
		

> *& = &*Joker,
> 
> "listed & labeled
> 
> ...


The point that I made and I think several others are making is that equipment in question really isn't installed.  If just portable equipment it happens to be plugged into outlets in the facility.  As I said earlier if the facility was inspected before the equipment was brought in there would be no question about it passing the inspection.  In that case the inspector wouldn't have any idea what was being used in the facility which should be how the facility is inspected.


----------



## mtlogcabin (Sep 2, 2015)

I believe you would need to go to the definitions section of the code the equipment/appliance would be applicable to. In the case of a sewing machine the electrical code is all that would be applicable. If it is not regulated by the adopted code then you can not enforce a regulation you did not adopt.


----------

