# Distance between Island and Refrigerator Enclosure Cabinet



## gskataria1 (Jun 23, 2015)

We are building a house in Texas and are 1 week away from completion and closing of the house. We realized that our space between the kitchen island and cabinet enclosing refrigerator is very small. On further research it is only 33 inches, While other houses on the street (same plan) are about 39 inches.

I researched the ICC code and found this -

From 2009 IRC CODE --

R311.6 Hallways. The minimum width of a hallway shall be not less than 3 feet (914 mm).

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2009/icod_irc_2009_3_par142.htm?bu2=undefined

From 2009 International Property Maintenance Code-

404.2 Minimum room widths. A habitable room, other than a kitchen, shall not be less than 7 feet (2134 mm) in any plan dimension. Kitchens shall have a clear passageway of not less than 3 feet (914 mm) between counterfronts and appliances or counterfronts and walls.

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/ipmc/2009/icod_ipmc_2009_4_par013.htm

Most of the French door refrigerators are around 36 inch wide, so i cannot even buy them as they have to pass through this space to get it installed. Even the counter depth ones, the space will be very congested when i open the bottom drawers.

What can I do at this point? Can i force the builder to move the island (which at this point will be very expensive and time consuming for the builder) and will push our moving date further?

Does builder has to follow these codes in Fort Bend county, Texas?


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## cda (Jun 23, 2015)

do you Know the population of the county??

Has there been any city or county building inspectors on the job??

OK, big question is this a cookie cutter desing, or did you help with the layout???

On the plans are the dimensions of the finished project the same as on the plans???


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## Sifu (Jun 23, 2015)

Not sure the residential code has a requirement for this.  PM code must but I don't think that is enforceable on new construction prior to CO.  Just looked at mine, 28" from door handle to island.  Be great to have more but it is completely functional.


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## MASSDRIVER (Jun 23, 2015)

Somebody put the in slab plumbing on the wrong side of the line, and somebody else put the wall or cabinet where the plumbing is. Did you find this on your orientation walk thru?

Note it as a correction before acceptance.

Brent.


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## Msradell (Jun 23, 2015)

Sifu said:
			
		

> Not sure the residential code has a requirement for this.  PM code must but I don't think that is enforceable on new construction prior to CO.  Just looked at mine, 28" from door handle to island.  Be great to have more but it is completely functional.


You mean that there is 28" between the front of the refrigerator and the island?  If that's the case how did you even get the refrigerator into its location?

Can you and the OP provide some sketches of the floor plan in the area in question?


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## Builder Bob (Jun 24, 2015)

Interesting that the space requirement is in the property maintenance code but not in the IRC.  I know the 36 inch clear is in the IBC...... but does not apply to 1 &2 family dwellings and townhomes.


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## steveray (Jun 24, 2015)

Call the county and see what codes they use....If they use the IPMC you have a chance for correction under code, IRC, not so much. Or as a customer, you have the right to not like it and not buy it I would think...


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## MASSDRIVER (Jun 24, 2015)

Is there a model home? You cAn go by that standard. There are ways.

Brent.


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## gskataria1 (Jun 24, 2015)

Thanks for your responses. The builder is building 20 new houses on the street. I visited 3 other houses which are exactly the same plan and all of them have 39 inch clearance.

Population of county is around 700,000. It is a cookie cutter design from the builder. I had no input in the layout.  On the blue print that i saw, it clearly states the distance should be 39 inches but on the finished product distance is 33 inches.

Our orientation walk thru is on friday. I try to visit the house every other day so I can inform the builder of any issues on time, so they can be fixed. About a week ago when the cabinets were installed i found out the issue. I informed the builder right away, Instead of fixing the issue, they want ahead and put granite on top of it the next day and sink few days later. Now fixing gets lot more complicated.

Attached is the image

http://i60.tinypic.com/jgi2l3.png[/img]"]


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## Sifu (Jun 24, 2015)

No problems getting the very old normal size frig out and a new counter depth one in.  Slid it in sideways on a blanket and then rolled it back.  And like I said it is perfectly functional, though it could be better as always.  The 33" in the OP would be nice.  Don't think codes will help in this case.  The power is in the pocket-book.


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## cda (Jun 24, 2015)

gskataria1 said:
			
		

> Thanks for your responses. The builder is building 20 new houses on the street. I visited 3 other houses which are exactly the same plan and all of them have 39 inch clearance. Population of county is around 700,000. It is a cookie cutter design from the builder. I had no input in the layout.  On the blue print that i saw, it clearly states the distance should be 39 inches but on the finished product distance is 33 inches.
> 
> Our orientation walk thru is on friday. I try to visit the house every other day so I can inform the builder of any issues on time, so they can be fixed. About a week ago when the cabinets were installed i found out the issue. I informed the builder right away, Instead of fixing the issue, they want ahead and put granite on top of it the next day and sink few days later. Now fixing gets lot more complicated.
> 
> ...


Not really

It was not built to the plans

Require it built per plans, put it to them in writing/// not your problem

Any county or city building inspector involved in the inspections??


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## fatboy (Jun 24, 2015)

Looks like you have the evidence in your hands that it is their mistake.....hold the builders feet to the fire to make it right.

Welcome to the forum


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## ICE (Jun 24, 2015)

I agree with fatboy.


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## retire09 (Jun 24, 2015)

Where is this addressed in the IBC?


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## gskataria1 (Jun 24, 2015)

thank you for all your responses

i checked other houses on the street with the builder with the same plan and all are atleast 39 inches wide...6 inches more than mine. Orientation walk thru scheduled for friday and closing scheduled for Tuesday so far.

The plan was by the builder and i had no input on it.


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## JBI (Jun 24, 2015)

gskataria1 - Wear rubber boots to the walkthrough... I see a pi$$ing match in your near future.


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## mtlogcabin (Jun 24, 2015)

> We realized that our space between the kitchen island and cabinet enclosing refrigerator is very small.


So will any future buyer you try to sell the house to.


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## north star (Jun 24, 2015)

*& ~ & ~ &*





gskataria1,

ABSOLUTELY do not accept your house until it is like you want

it EXACTLY !........There is a lot of money involved, and the

builder has not got paid yet.........Right now, you have leverage.

Please use it to your advantage.

Is this "clearance issue" the only thing wrong in the house ?

Have you had any inspections performed on this house ?

What codes \ standards are in-place in Fort Bend County, Texas ?

As an aside, if there has not been any inspections performed;

and maybe even if there has been, ...you might consider having

an independent 3rd Party Inspection Agency, to thoroughly inspect

the whole house & property.

One week away from completion, and you still have leverage to

find out exactly the condition of what you are purchasing.

Oh, and BTW, ...Welcome to The Building Codes Forum !  

*& ~ & ~ &*


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## JPohling (Jun 24, 2015)

do not accept the house until this issue is resolved to your satisfaction.  Like Brent said they roughed the plumbing on the wrong side and just kept going.  perhaps your the only one who has noticed.


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## fatboy (Jun 24, 2015)

retire09 said:
			
		

> Where is this addressed in the IBC?


It is under the IRC and it is addressed R106.4;

R106.4 Amended Construction Documents. Work shall be installed in accordance with the approved construction documents, and any changes made during construction that are not in compliance with the approved construction documents shall be resubmitted for approval as an amended set of construction documents.


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## MASSDRIVER (Jun 24, 2015)

When I was with Lennar I learned about consistancy. What is represented in the model homes have to be continued to the buyers home.

Orientation is your chance to do corrections. Of course when I was a construction manager if I found you walking around that house I would have booted your a55 right on out. I reveled in it. Got the nickname Bulldog.

Remember it's not your house, it is the builders house until it officially is signed to you.

So on orientation you point that out, let them know the model or other homes are different, and watch the shltstorm as it gets corrected. You would be surprised what can be done in 5 days. You don't have to be combative. Calmness and being resolute will get er done.

I can tell stories.  

Brent.


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## gskataria1 (Jun 24, 2015)

I am having the house inspected by an independent inspector tomorrow. I talked to the builder as well and told them I wont be closing it until this issue is fixed. Other issues so far I found are pretty minor. I have searched online regarding fort bend county and also called their office but have not had any luck so far in getting response. Builder really wanted to close on time and told me they will fix it after the closing. But i told them I would not close until it is fixed. Hopefully it can be fixed within 7 days, otherwise my interest rate lock for mortgage would expire and would cost me to extend or get the new higher rate.


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## cda (Jun 24, 2015)

Is this you??

https://engr3pin.co.fort-bend.tx.us/(S(ce5jrhal04i12c45bsj3xxzj))/files/FAQ.pdf

Residential Building Code Inspection Notification System

Our Residential Building Code Inspection Notification System allows a residential builder or a third party inspector to give notice to Fort Bend County after final inspection.


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## ICE (Jun 24, 2015)

I'm no lawyer but I have offered to bail out Brent in the past.  There must be a legal way to close on the purchase and still have the builder locked into moving the island.

There's no need to know the code on this as the building dept isn't going to get involved.  An inspector wouldn't be likely to discover the mistake until the final inspection....if at all.


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## mtlogcabin (Jun 24, 2015)

> Hopefully it can be fixed within 7 days, otherwise my interest rate lock for mortgage would expire and would cost me to extend or get the new higher rate.


Contact the mortgage lender and inquire about the possibility of holding monies out from the contractor into an escrow if the items are not corrected by the closing date. Usually 10 to 15% of the loan amount will motivate them to complete the work ASAP.


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## fatboy (Jun 24, 2015)

MT has my suggestion also, have them escrow an amount that would easily cover the cost, then tack on another 15-20-25% as a motivator.


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## north star (Jun 24, 2015)

*% ~ % ~ %*

gsakataria1,

Hold to your requirement to have the island relocated.

If the builder will not be able to fix it before the closing date,

...ask him \ her to lower the cost of the sale of the house

to accommodate the costs of relocating your island to

a compliant location [ *EX:* If it will cost say around $3,000.00

to relocate the island, simply lower the house purchase amount

by at least $3,000.00, ...possibly add a little more for the

inconvenience of fixing their mistake.  ]........Just sayin'...

Just curious, but do you have a good attorney representing

you in this purchase ?..........It sounds as though you are going

to need them.

*% ~ % ~ %*


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## ICE (Jun 24, 2015)

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> Got the nickname Bulldog.


I gotta tell you Brent, maybe it's just the dress but I'm picturing something completely different.





That was a special day for you huh.


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## MASSDRIVER (Jun 24, 2015)

It's not unheard of to tackle something like that after close. If they are a large builder it will be handled. When things were ripping along there was another buyer, or ten, in line for that house. As I said its not yours yet. They can just move right along. See. It happen on other communities. We had more than 20 qc milestones so it was fairly improbable for something like that to get by.

Just be aware. I had one real gem of a buyer that wanted the whole house retextured. She got to pound sand. We closed it with someone else a week later.

Brent.


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## ICE (Jun 24, 2015)

fatboy said:
			
		

> It is under the IRC and it is addressed R106.4;R106.4 Amended Construction Documents. Work shall be installed in accordance with the approved construction documents, and any changes made during construction that are not in compliance with the approved construction documents shall be resubmitted for approval as an amended set of construction documents.


That's not going to fly with an island counter that's off by 6".  First of all it's too late in the game for that.  Secondly, that code section wouldn't be applied unless there was another underlying issue like a window moved into a braced wall or something similar.

I have had numerous cases where an owner decided that she wanted an island and there wasn't one on the plans.  I inspected the island that wasn't on the plans.


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## ICE (Jun 24, 2015)

north star said:
			
		

> *% ~ % ~ %*gsakataria1,
> 
> Hold to your requirement to have the island relocated.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't take money in lieu of moving the island.  If you do that you may not get around to fixing it.  The people that you hire to do the work might make a mess of it.  The likelihood of getting low-balled is great.  The original contractor is already there and will do what is necessary to please their customer.


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## Builder Bob (Jun 25, 2015)

retire09 said:
			
		

> Where is this addressed in the IBC?


1208.1 Minimum room widths.

Habitable spaces, other than a kitchen, shall be not less than 7 feet (2134 mm) in any plan dimension. Kitchens shall have a clear passageway of not less than 3 feet (914 mm) between counter fronts and appliances or counter fronts and walls.

Sorry about the delay in responding...... moving slow these days


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## jwilly3879 (Jun 25, 2015)

1208.1 would only work if the house was built under the IBC.


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## gskataria1 (Jul 8, 2015)

I just want to thank everyone again for their input. The island was moved by the builder. Now i have 39 inches. Closing was delayed a little bit but we are closing this Friday. My interest rate lock expires on Friday at 4 p.m so able to get it done right on time.


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## cda (Jul 8, 2015)

All you have to do is ask

                                 Tell!!


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## fatboy (Jul 9, 2015)

Glad it worked out for you!


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## Joe Engel (Jul 10, 2015)

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> When I was with Lennar I learned about consistancy. What is represented in the model homes have to be continued to the buyers home. Orientation is your chance to do corrections. ...Remember it's not your house, it is the builders house until it officially is signed to you.
> 
> So on orientation you point that out, let them know the model or other homes are different, and watch the shltstorm as it gets corrected. You would be surprised what can be done in 5 days. You don't have to be combative. Calmness and being resolute will get er done.
> 
> Brent.


Brent is absolutely correct, builder will fuss and **** and moan and cuss. Bottom line is he will do most a-n-y thing to get your to close.


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## BSSTG (Jul 10, 2015)

FYI

Texas mandates use of the IRC and IBC statewide now. Been in effect since 2005 as I recall. This applied to all areas of the state unless amended by any of the political subdivisions.

Sec. 214.212.  INTERNATIONAL RESIDENTIAL CODE.  (a)  To protect the public health, safety, and welfare, the International Residential Code, as it existed on May 1, 2001, is adopted as a municipal residential building code in this state.

(b)  The International Residential Code applies to all construction, alteration, remodeling, enlargement, and repair of residential structures in a municipality.

©  A municipality may establish procedures:

(1)  to adopt local amendments to the International Residential Code;  and

(2)  for the administration and enforcement of the International Residential Code.

(d)  A municipality may review and consider amendments made by the International Code Council to the International Residential Code after May 1, 2001.

Other sections of Local Government Code 214 require the IBC and NEC.

BS


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