# Include outdoor space in total occupant load



## HauckArch (Jun 30, 2021)

2019 California Fire Code §907.2.1


Should the occupant of an outdoor patio space be added to the indoor occupant load when determining the 300 occupant threshold requiring a manual fire alarm system with occupant notification if the patio has it's own two exits that lead directly to a public way and do not exit through the building? The code section above does not specifically mention "building", "structure" or anything else that would suggest outdoor space can be excluded from that threshold.
When determining the occupancy threshold for the same, should only the Group A occupancies be included, and other occupancies be excluded, ie. kitchens, restrooms, and accessory spaces?


----------



## cda (Jun 30, 2021)

Welcome 

Visiting cloudy SD right now


----------



## cda (Jun 30, 2021)

Me

If same business I would include the patio in the total occupant load,,, for fire alarm purposes

Is it enclosed in anyway?

Is there a large overhang attached to the main building?

Fire sprinkler system??

Answer # 2 I normally combine all


----------



## cda (Jun 30, 2021)

Of course calif plays by their own rules


shall be installed in Group A occupancies where the occupant load due to the assembly occupancy is 300 or more



. Group A occupancies not separated from one another in accordance with Section 707.3.10 of the _California Building Code_ shall be considered as a single occupancy for the purposes of applying this section.


----------



## cda (Jul 1, 2021)

Bump 
For other answers


----------



## Paul Sweet (Jul 1, 2021)

Could the outdoor patio be considered a separate fire area?


----------



## DuaneW (Jul 26, 2021)

I see it as a separate fire area as long as the doors or windows have not been removed.
but I have no Idea on what CA codes are.


----------



## mtlogcabin (Jul 26, 2021)

cda said:


> Visiting cloudy SD right now


 It is not clouds but smoke you are probably seeing from the fires in Montana and Wyoming. If you can see the sun and it is orange it is smoke



			https://data.argusleader.com/fires/
		










						South Dakota Wildfire Map - Current South Dakota Wildfires, Forest Fires, and Lightning Strikes | Fire, Weather & Avalanche Center
					

Interactive real-time wildfire and forest fire map for South Dakota. See current wildfires and wildfire perimeters in South Dakota using the Fire, Weather & Avalanche Center Wildfire Map.




					www.fireweatheravalanche.org


----------



## steveray (Jul 26, 2021)

FIRE AREA. The aggregate floor area enclosed and
bounded by fire walls, fire barriers, exterior walls or horizontal
assemblies of a building. Areas of the building not provided
with surrounding walls shall be included in the fire area
if such areas are included within the horizontal projection of
the roof or floor next above.

If it does not have a roof then I would not call it part of the cumulative fire area in this situation...


----------

