# Stop the madness



## ICE (May 24, 2016)

I'm sorry to say that this thread has been corrupted.  The pictures have been deleted at Flickr so they are gone from here.

The largest solar outfit in CA has a terrible habit of leaving energized equipment wide open and unattended.  An employee will have four and five inspections scheduled every day.  He races around opening the equipment and leaning ladders.  I show up and nobody is there.  What troubles me is the obvious.
All of the pictures are from the street.
















These are from today.  I have stopped giving them inspections and they get a re-inspection fee instead.


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## steveray (May 25, 2016)

How does CalOSHA feel about that? We are getting a strong push here now on ARC Flash and things like that where we will no longer be opening the panels for residential and Shirley not commercial and I have not figured out how to inspect switchgear that exceeds max PPE requirements....


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## jdfruit (May 27, 2016)

It is understandable why a contractor wants to minimize labor, but not at the risk of someone getting seriously hurt or killed.
Can the electric utility in the area add some weight to not having panels wide open & unattended by "qualified" personnel?


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## ICE (Jun 12, 2016)

My office manager waives any re-inspection fees and tells me that I can't withhold an inspection.  I am told that it is none of my business if the contractor creates a dangerous condition.  "We are not there to police the world."  

It has spread to all but a few solar installation companies.  I find them sitting in the truck or not there at all and the service is in the backyard....wide open.  As you can see from the pictures, these services are sometimes in the front yard where any curious kid is at risk.  They can wait until I get there and remove a single screw to remove the dead front but don't.  I just don't get it.

CALOSHA tells me that they only have jurisdiction over employer/employee issues.  Edison responsibility stops at the weather-head.  The fire dept. says to call the building dept.  The CSLB says the same.  The Building Dept. says to lay off....to the point that if I persist I will be banned from inspecting solar.  I can't wait.


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## ICE (Aug 12, 2016)

It has happened many times since I started this thread.  Each time I get the same story.  Inspectors chew them out if the panel isn't open when they get there.  XYY City requires this.

So I called XYZ City and asked the random inspector that got the phone call... I assumed the persona of a contractor.  I asked him if he wanted the service open with the dead-front removed before he arrives.  He said yes... especially if there will not be someone there to meet him because he doesn't carry a screwdriver.  I told him that I would gladly give him Ruben's screwdriver.

Then I called the BO of XYZ City and asked him.  He said Oh Hell no...somebody could get killed.

Inspectors that allow this practice should not be inspectors.


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## conarb (Aug 12, 2016)

Tiger:

Back in the 50s I became friends with various inspectors, they all told me that it's a sign of respect that the contractor pulling the permit show up at all inspectors, when riding with one I noticed he always had a white shirt and tie hanging in his back seat, I asked why and he responded that he had to testify in court a few times per week and it was a show of respect to the courts to wear a tie.  Once I had to run off and I told my foreman to apologize but I had to go and would be back later, when I did get back he was pouring concrete on a warehouse and I said: "I see Warren signed you off."  He said: "No he didn't but he said to go ahead and pour but tell Dick I'll be back at 12:00 noon for lunch at Art's Buffet.  

When I was doing expert work for the Contractors' License Board I insisted that the contractor of record meet with me, tract builders were the worst, they'd send the Subcontractor they thought responsible, I'd refuse to meet and tell them to make another appoint when the contractor whose name was on the permit could be present.  I'll tell you why, I once had a case where 8' french doors weren't closing properly allowing air in across the tops, they sent the finish carpentry contractor who set the doors, I met with him and he blamed the framing contractor for the walls being out of plumb, my first impression was that they were just poor quality doors that had no protection from the weather and were warping, so the true responsibility was the general contractor who supplied the doors, neither the contractor who framed the building (it was actually within industry tolerances), nor the contractor who installed the doors, the doors were warping.  

Recently I had a case with a new inspector, the inspectors had been rotated, I couldn't reach him by phone since I didn't know who his name yet, it was just a roof nailing inspection so I left the approved plans with my foreman and explained the multiple plans and cards, the AHJ issued new permits every time I made changes, I tried to explain how it all went together to my foreman, the next morning I asked the foreman if the inspector signed off the roof nailing and he told me no to call for another inspection.  When the new guy showed up I explained all the multiple plans and permit cards and he asked me where to sign, I showed him and then asked my men to bring a long ladder for him, he said not to bother, he wasn't allowed to climb ladders.  Obviously if he wasn't going on the roof there was no need to be there but he was just showing me who was the boss, we became friends and in the end he told me it was a pleasure working with me and he hoped I'd build another home in his jurisdiction.


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## ICE (Aug 15, 2016)

8/15/16
It's the start of a new week and this is the first job that I refused to inspect because the service was like this with nobody there.  Well in all fairness the guy that met me was in his truck.....out front and the service is in the rear.


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## ICE (Aug 31, 2016)

This guy was waiting elswhere with the live parts exposed.  I'm not convinced that he can see the danger.




If I could just get them all in a room together.

http://www.wimp.com/hidden-camera-experiment-proves-how-easily-people-are-influenced/


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## my250r11 (Sep 1, 2016)

ICE said:


> http://www.wimp.com/hidden-camera-experiment-proves-how-easily-people-are-influenced/



Monkey see monkey do LOL


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## Pcinspector1 (Sep 1, 2016)

ICE, all due respect, that guy looks more like a plumber. 

Office manager here does not have the authority to waive permits or fees, I'd check that out. I'd persist..persist and persist some more if I could get out of solar inspections, but your the best man they got! 

The suns always behind you when taken pictures! ....Just watch out for that boot!


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## ICE (Oct 5, 2017)

One of my best friends has left my AHJ and gone to work in another jurisdiction.  That municipality is way more strict in enforcing code.  However he has discovered that it is expected that electric service panels will be left with dead-fronts removed and unattended exposed live parts.  The contractor is not required to be onsite. 

The lack of concern for this abominable practice dumbfounds me.    

This thread has gotten scant attention while there is a time bomb waiting to go off.  I am convinced that I am alone on this issue in Southern California.


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## cda (Oct 5, 2017)

Media??

They always need a story filler.


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 5, 2017)

Why not have them close the cover and install a plastic tie strap to secure the cover in the closed position. That will prevent someone from just opening the cover and accessing the energized parts. You cut the tie strap open the cover and install a new one when you are done.
Saves contractor time and money and makes it safer at the same time


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## JCraver (Oct 9, 2017)

Why do your jurisdictions let contractors get away with not being present for inspections?  This is the bigger travesty to me, and would solve your problem with the fronts being off as well.

You're supposed to explain to Mrs. Suzy Homemaker what you want her contractor to do, and she's expected to remember enough of what you told her, AND be smart enough to relay it all correctly to her contractor?  What kind of nonsense is that?


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## steveray (Oct 9, 2017)

JCraver said:


> Why do your jurisdictions let contractors get away with not being present for inspections?  This is the bigger travesty to me, and would solve your problem with the fronts being off as well.
> 
> You're supposed to explain to Mrs. Suzy Homemaker what you want her contractor to do, and she's expected to remember enough of what you told her, AND be smart enough to relay it all correctly to her contractor?  What kind of nonsense is that?



Where we are, that would not necessarily be customer friendly...I just tell the contractors that if they don't mind me telling their customers all of their mistakes they don't have to be there....But even that is failing to motivate them these days. They are so bad that they don't understand how bad it is to be that bad at your job....


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 9, 2017)

JCraver said:


> You're supposed to explain to Mrs. Suzy Homemaker what you want her contractor to do,


No you are suppose to write the corrections out (document) and post them where everyone can read them and then charge the re-inspection fee.
Sometimes it is good to have the contractor onsite and sometimes it is better if he is nowhere to be found during the inspection. 

We have no problem removing the dead fronts as part of an inspection.


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## JCraver (Oct 10, 2017)

We document everything.  But when I give the contractors' copy to Mrs. Suzy Homemaker, she has no idea what the words on that little paper mean - she just assumes that either her contractor is incompetent and that she has to find another one, or that I'm an a$$hole and don't want her to have her new whatever and that the City just _has_ to make _everything_ harder for people. 

Thankfully, we're not a very big town and all of our regular contractors know I expect them to be there for an inspection.  It seems to work out better for everybody that way.

And I'm not removing _anything_ for an inspection.  I carry a tape, a couple levels, and a few different testers, but no other tools.  If something needs removed, you're taking it off - I'm not touching it.


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## JCraver (Oct 10, 2017)

I guess I just can't get my head around "big city" inspections and the scheduling nonsense which leads to ICE's kind of problems.  "Call by 4:00 to get an inspection between Noon and 5:00 tomorrow", and all that.  In my little office, someone calls me and I go do their inspection.  In the very worst case, they call me at 5 till 5:00 and I make them wait until the next morning...


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## fatboy (Oct 10, 2017)

We are not a "big city" by definition, but when you have an average of 12-15 stops a day each for 5 inspectors, you need some time assign and research.


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## ICE (Oct 10, 2017)

I remove dead fronts but that is against policy.  I understand why we aren't supposed to remove them and many of the inspectors probably shouldn't touch tools.

The open, exposed, live parts is all about being lazy, arrogant jerks. The inspector thinks he is so important that to wait thirty seconds for the contractor to remove a screw is an insult.  The contractor can't be bothered with showing up for an inspection because he has better things to do.  They don't mind risking the death of a stranger.  When it happens everybody will cry foul....and carry on being jerks risking the next one.

I just don't get it.  Oh I understand that "customer service" is more important than the inspection.  I know that anything that will upset or delay a contractor will not be tolerated.  I thought that killing citizens was over that line that we shouldn't cross.  Apparently I thought wrong.

Everyone sees this issue for what it is.  Everyone understands the danger.  Hell's bells, my mother said I must be kidding. Then again, I am not aware of anyone having been electrocuted so perhaps I should shut up until there is an honest to goodness, stupendous electrocution.


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## Pcinspector1 (Oct 11, 2017)

A mobile home gets set in a city mobile home park where there was no requirements for inspections on the electrical hook up. Then later there's a mobile home engulfed in flames and a little girl dies. The City Councils then requires that the mobile homes get inspected before occupancy. First one I inspect had undersized service wires, no grounding system and Mr. Lincoln is found under a fuse in the box. On another inspection the electrical box had a piece of copper plumbing pipe used in place of a cartridge fuse. I don't claim to know everything about doing electrical inspections but I'm asked to enforce a family of I-codes and the electrician is typically only required to do one code. 

Yes customer service is important and time is money, but asking that the dead front be off and the contractor's representative be present when doing an inspection is not to much to ask for IMO especially on an electrical inspection. If management would support the inspector's request, it is possible the re-inspection would be eliminated saving the entity $$ for sending out the inspector for second inspection. 

My 2¢


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## ICE (Oct 11, 2017)

Pcinspector1 said:


> A mobile home gets set in a city mobile home park where there was no requirements for inspections on the electrical hook up. Then later there's a mobile home engulfed in flames and a little girl dies. The City Councils then requires that the mobile homes get inspected before occupancy. First one I inspect had undersized service wires, no grounding system and Mr. Lincoln is found under a fuse in the box. On another inspection the electrical box had a piece of copper plumbing pipe used in place of a cartridge fuse. I don't claim to know everything about doing electrical inspections but I'm asked to enforce a family of I-codes and the electrician is typically only required to do one code.
> 
> Yes customer service is important and time is money, but asking that the dead front be off and the contractor's representative be present when doing an inspection is not to much to ask for IMO especially on an electrical inspection. If management would support the inspector's request, it is possible the re-inspection would be eliminated saving the entity $$ for sending out the inspector for second inspection.
> 
> My 2¢



I don't want any covers removed prior to my arrival.  It takes less than minute to remove a dead front.  I hear stories about inspectors complaining if the dead front isn't already off.  I hear stories about inspectors that never look inside the enclosure.  Whatever...if I walk on and find the live parts exposed and the worker is not standing next to it I want to walk off.  It is a travesty that there should be a need to bitch about this.  What has become of all the electricians?  And more on point, where are all of the electrical inspectors?

You know, there's a few mistakes that serve as "tells".  You making those mistakes tells me a lot about you.....electrician or inspector.
Leaving exposed live metal says so much more than you suspect.  I really don't want to have much to do with you after that.  I don't want to explain corrections.....forget me telling you the story of the twins and the beagle.  I just want to send you back to the moment in time when you figured to become an electrician or inspector and then talk you out of it.


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## ICE (Mar 18, 2018)

I have been battling the practice of leaving exposed live parts....to no avail.  Last week I lost the war against this ignorance.  An official policy directive has arrived that condones the practice.  A service panel or any other equipment with the dead-front removed is deemed to not be a hazard as long as the contractor's representative is "on the premises".

I have never been a party to the discussion.  One of the parameters to be worked out involved the definition of "on the premises".  Sitting in a vehicle on the street has been accepted as "on the premises".....but how far down the street seems to matter.  That will be a judgement call by the inspector.

Somehow, this is not a hazard as long as the workman is sleeping within three addressees of the address where I found it.





There's nothing to worry about here as long as the contractor can hear the screaming.







This, well this is altogether different.  When this happens the inspectors are to contact a supervisor for further instruction.





The permit copy is tucked behind the service entrance conductors, awaiting my signature.








The consensus is that it is not the AHJ's problem to address....it is the contractor's problem and building departments do not police the industry.  I have heard it said that the contractor's have insurance.....which of course makes all the difference.

No other authority has an interest in stopping this practice.  That includes the Fire Dept., the Contractors License Board, and CalOSHA.

Being just an inspector, and fallible, I might be tilting at windmills.......or.......It happens all over Southern California.  One dead child from now, the policy will change.


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## tmurray (Mar 19, 2018)

To me, on the premises, would indicate that the contractor is on the property. Why not just leave a single screw in the panel? That secures the panel, but reduces the time it takes to open it for the inspector. I can understand how some inspectors might be impatient, but a single screw does not take long to remove.


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## ICE (Mar 19, 2018)

tmurray said:


> To me, on the premises, would indicate that the contractor is on the property. Why not just leave a single screw in the panel? That secures the panel, but reduces the time it takes to open it for the inspector. I can understand how some inspectors might be impatient, but a single screw does not take long to remove.


On the premises means that the equipment can be open with the workers anywhere on the premises other than with the open equipment.  Or in our case, in a vehicle within sight of the premises. 

There is usually just one screw to remove.  They usually have a screwdriver bit in a drill motor.  By the time you can say drill motor, the screw is removed.


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## tmurray (Mar 19, 2018)

Yeah, the whole, they're on the premises, but not on the actual property thing doesn't fly with me either. 

prem·is·es
ˈpreməsəz/
_noun_

a house or building, together with its land and outbuildings, occupied by a business or considered in an official context.
"business premises"
synonyms: building(s), property, site, office
"he was asked to leave the premises"


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## steveray (Mar 20, 2018)

Do they have the proper arc flash gear on when they open the panel? Will OSHA pursue that?


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## conarb (Mar 20, 2018)

ICE said:


> I have been battling the practice of leaving exposed live parts....to no avail.  Last week I lost the war against this ignorance.  An official policy directive has arrived that condones the practice.  A service panel or any other equipment with the dead-front removed is deemed to not be a hazard as long as the contractor's representative is "on the premises".
> 
> I have never been a party to the discussion.  One of the parameters to be worked out involved the definition of "on the premises".  Sitting in a vehicle on the street has been accepted as "on the premises".....but how far down the street seems to matter.  That will be a judgement call by the inspector.
> 
> ...



Tiger:

What code section do you cite?  It is none of your business, better that you enforce federal immigration laws, that way you would rid yourself of incompetent electricians.  California is a Sanctuiary State, which violates Federal law, I heard yesterday that the mayor of Los Alamitos is not going to enforce California's law.



			
				San Diego Union said:
			
		

> ith about 12,000 residents spread across a few miles of suburban Southern California, Los Alamitos is better known for its good schools and small-town charms than political activism.
> 
> But the city now finds itself at the center of a rebellion against California’s “sanctuary” policies, which aim to protect immigrants here illegally as President Trump vows to ramp up deportations.
> 
> ...



We are no-longer a nation of laws, who cares if something minor like electical panels are left open. 


¹ http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/california/la-me-sanctuary-state-flght-20180319-story.html


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## Rick18071 (Mar 20, 2018)

Odd, in this area the immigrants do a better job than the locals. Maybe because they don't want to be noticed?


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## conarb (Mar 20, 2018)

Rick18071 said:


> Odd, in this area the immigrants do a better job than the locals. Maybe because they don't want to be noticed?


It's still none of the inspector's business and just another item to increase the cost of construction, in California's proposals for new laws to make affordable construction more affordable I read the other day that codes, zoning and building, increased the costs of construction by 30%, adding zoning in this area increases the costs one Hell of a lot more than that.  There are proposals in Sacramento to force AHJs to eliminate zoning codes to allow more affordable housing, maybe they should eliminate building codes as well?


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## ICE (Mar 21, 2018)

It is everybody's business.  Any right thinking individual from any walk of life should recognize the danger and speak up.  I am surprised that the lawyer in you misses the point of it all.


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## tmurray (Mar 21, 2018)

Rick18071 said:


> Odd, in this area the immigrants do a better job than the locals. Maybe because they don't want to be noticed?


I've read some studies that indicate that crime and illegal drug usage is lower in these neighborhoods as well. They hypothesized it was for the same reason.


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## tmurray (Mar 21, 2018)

ICE said:


> It is everybody's business.  Any right thinking individual from any walk of life should recognize the danger and speak up.  I am surprised that the lawyer in you misses the point of it all.


It would be negligent of you to notice a potentially dangerous situation and do nothing to mitigate the danger.


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## mark handler (Mar 21, 2018)

*Not our concern, He's Hispanic and maybe a dreamer... 
BUT, Not our concern, government overreach to require permits. Oh wait, he maybe a citizen, should we care then?

While playing ball, the boy touched a fence coursing with electricity. He died days later*
http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article176780736.html
A 12-year-old Fresno boy has died of electrocution in a case police say is a tragic accident.
Adrian Antunez Perez died 2:17 p.m. Monday at Community Regional Medical Center, according a family friend.
His organs are being donated.
Police were called to Villa Margaritas apartments at 1235 N. Recreation Ave., near Olive and Chestnut avenues, just after 6 p.m. Thursday for a report of a boy stuck in an electrified fence, Lt. Stephen Viveros said. Police and paramedics found him unconscious between a cinder-block wall and a chain-link fence.
Adrian and other children were throwing a football when it fell between the wall and fence, which are one to two feet apart. Adrian had gone to retrieve it, Viveros said.
Adrian jumped down between the two fences to get the ball when a jolt of electricity caused him to fall, Viveros said. He got up, fell again and became unconscious.
When police first tried to grab the boy, they received an electric shock, he said. They got him out and called PG&E to turn off power.
An investigation showed a bare wire had come into contact with a metal conduit that touched the fence. Viveros said the wire and conduit had recently been put there to power video surveillance cameras. “It’s just a tragic accident,” he said.
However, city officials said the wiring was improperly done.
City spokesman Mark Standriff said “there was illegal wiring to power some video surveillance cameras.” The wiring was installed without a permit or inspection, Standriff said. The city’s code enforcement division Monday issued a citation to the property manager, who must remove the wiring by Friday or face a fine.
The property is owned by JMY Properties LLC in Rolling Hills. Attempts to reach the company for comment were unsuccessful.
Energetic, smart
Adrian was a student at Scandinavian Middle School. Fresno Unified School District has psychologists and counselors available at Scandinavian and Ewing Elementary School, where Adrian’s siblings and other friends attend.
“We've been working close with the family and the school to provide information to parents and staff and to provide substitutes to teachers who are affected,” district spokeswoman Jessica Peres Baird said.
“He was very well loved,” Baird said. “A lot of people know his family.”
Karen Jones, a former teacher of Adrian’s mother Victoria, said as a small child Adrian was a happy, energetic, mischievious and smart child. She said a friend of Adrian’s told her, “Adrian just makes everything so much more fun.”
Diana Benate, 18, lives in the apartment building, and said Adrian was like a member of the family.
“He was such an active boy,” she said. “It’s hard for me to believe.”
She said she ran to Adrian when she heard he was in trouble behind the two fences.
“We were screaming ‘Adrian!’ ” she said. “He wouldn’t even answer us anymore.”
A candlelight vigil was planned for 7 Tuesday night in front Villa Margaritas Apartments, 1235 N. Recreation Ave.
Lewis Griswold: 559-441-6104, @fb_LewGriswold


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## ICE (Mar 21, 2018)

tmurray said:


> It would be negligent of you to notice a potentially dangerous situation and do nothing to mitigate the danger.


The building dept. that I work for agrees with Conarb.  My hands are tied.  Or so they think.


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## conarb (Mar 21, 2018)

ICE said:


> The building dept. that I work for agrees with Conarb.  My hands are tied.  Or so they think.


I don't know what to say, I guess the Tiger Code rules, if your own employer can't control you I guess nobody can.  BTW, those appear to be solar panel installations, I've always encouraged you to give them Hell.


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## ICE (Mar 21, 2018)

Four times in as many days.  Wide open and the worker was in a vehicle on the street.  The service is dangerous beyond measure.  The service would have to be on fire to be any more dangerous. I am one of a thousand inspectors here in so. ca.  It's a given that people have been shocked but I haven't heard of a fatality.  Dumb luck I suppose.

The state of the electrical trade here is nothing to be proud about.  When I tell the person that did this how sad I am and I see the wonderment in their expression.....well then, Shirley the horse is dead and I don't have time for another beating.

















Many inspectors share the blame.  I am sorry about that but it's true.  AHJ's sanction this behavior.  I ask myself how that can be... then remember that Disney World has alligators in their wading pool.


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## conarb (Mar 21, 2018)

Tiger:

You've gone crazy on this issue, I'm going strictly from memory because I've never paid that much attention, but all panels are left wide open during construction, for final they button everything up and the inspectors all carry screw drivers and open them up and then put the screws back in, the reason I get involved is that I have one Hell of a time getting the electricians to neatly label the circuits, another reason I look is hardwood floor guys go to the sub-panels and hot-wire their 220 floor sanders, in large homes that can be several subpanels.  Another reason I get involved is on new homes we jump our power-pole service to the house main panel to energize the entire house before final so they can "ring-out" the house, in some cases I've even let the owners move in before final while jumped from my power pole, if the inspector says anything I point out that he still has control over the gas service, not long ago one pointed out that since I was on propane he had no control, I pointed out that on remodels people live in them all the time with both gas and electric hooked up.  

Funny, you'll walk on roofs but won't unscrew a panel, most of our inspectors aren't allowed on a roof but carry screw drivers to open and close panels, just like they open and close many light fixtures to check UL labels. You must have a screw driver to open up fixtures don't you?  Or do you make the contractor open and close light frixtures too?


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## tmurray (Mar 22, 2018)

Our laws would prohibit us from uncovering work for an inspection. We would have to order it uncovered by the contractor/owner. I'm wondering if you have similar laws.


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## ICE (Mar 22, 2018)

Conarb, you missed the point.  So much time in rarefied air has skewed your view of reality.  

I have removed a few thousand dead-fronts.  My AHJ pretty much insists that inspectors not remove dead-fronts.  So perhaps you are right and I am out of control.  However, that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.  What you have done in the past and advocate for today is wrong.  

It is silly to have an argument with anyone about such a stupid practice.  I am done with it.....until the inevitable happens.


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## Pcinspector1 (Mar 22, 2018)

My parents gave me a "toaster" and an "electric radio" to play with as bath toys! Rodney Dangerfield


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## tmurray (Mar 22, 2018)

Pcinspector1 said:


> My parents gave me a "toaster" and an "electric radio" to play with as bath toys! Rodney Dangerfield


Were they bath toys?


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## Pcinspector1 (Mar 22, 2018)

Why, yes the were!


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## conarb (Mar 22, 2018)

tmurray said:


> Our laws would prohibit us from uncovering work for an inspection. We would have to order it uncovered by the contractor/owner. I'm wondering if you have similar laws.


T Murray:

How do you check for UL lables in fixtures?  Do you walk on roofs?  How about smokes 30' in the air, do you go up long ladders to check them?


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## tmurray (Mar 22, 2018)

I don't inspect electrical, but the electrical inspector checks most at rough in, and the rest there is the documentation on site. 

Walking on a roof or testing a smoke alarm doesn't require me to remove any of the construction...


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## conarb (Mar 22, 2018)

tmurray said:


> I don't inspect electrical, but the electrical inspector checks most at rough in, and the rest there is the documentation on site.
> 
> Walking on a roof or testing a smoke alarm doesn't require me to remove any of the construction...



I just mentioned it since Tiger does walk roofs, our inspectors aren't allaowed to walk roofs or climb ladders, yet our inspectors have no problems with opening fixtures and/or panels. 

I'm sure you guys remember me saying that we contractors and inspectors were always friends, I'd go to their retirement parties and take them to my Home Builders' meetings, there is an interesting article in today's paper about a former customer of mine, *Andy Mousalimas*, Andy had a well-known bar called the Kings X, he originated Trivia Contests and sports fantasy leagues.  Bar/resturant owners drove me nuts refusing to close down while remodeling them, one day Andy came to me with a cocktail glass in his hands caressing it, he said: "You are never here, you aren't showing any love for my bar, when I make a drink for a man I make it with love."  The next day a building inspector friend stopped by, I introduced him to Andy saying: "Any time Warren comes by give him anything he wants to drink".  From then on Warren stopped by for a couple of hours per day supervising my men with a bottle of beer in hand, Andy was happy, I was really showing love for his bar by putting a building inspector to work on it.  See we can all be friends.


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## my250r11 (Mar 23, 2018)

Last AHJ we required contractor to provide ladder. This one is much larger so we do roofs as we have time. Not sure how you can give a respectable inspection on a roof with out climbing it. You can only see so much from the ground. If you don't inspect it it is more of a tax than a fee and shouldn't require the permit at all. MHO.


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## conarb (Mar 23, 2018)

my250r11 said:


> Last AHJ we required contractor to provide ladder. This one is much larger so we do roofs as we have time. Not sure how you can give a respectable inspection on a roof with out climbing it. You can only see so much from the ground. If you don't inspect it it is more of a tax than a fee and shouldn't require the permit at all. MHO.


To walk on the roof you have to be tied-off according to OSHA and CalOSHA, so be prepared to buy that climbing gear, *OSHA*, we've become a nation of kittens.


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## my250r11 (Mar 23, 2018)

conarb said:


> To walk on the roof you have to be tied-off according to OSHA and CalOSHA, so be prepared to buy that climbing gear, *OSHA*, we've become a nation of kittens.



Not on the planet Cali. here, lol


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## Pcinspector1 (Mar 23, 2018)




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## ICE (Apr 25, 2018)

Still happening.  Now that we have a written, published policy that states that an energized electrical panel can have live metal exposed and be left unattended, there is nothing left to do but wait.


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## Pcinspector1 (Apr 26, 2018)

Mr. Inspector: 
Please put dead front cover back on when done inspecting! 
"Their having a Two for One margarita special at 4-pm today!" can't make it back in time to close up.

Shop was out of dem little red stickers! If you have any, be a peach and put em on?

Thank's buddy!


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## conarb (Apr 26, 2018)

Well Tiger, I'll say it again, if our Calfiornia inspectors can carry screwdrivers why can't you?


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## Pcinspector1 (Apr 26, 2018)

Conarb, My screwdriver broke


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## conarb (Apr 26, 2018)

Pcinspector1 said:


> Conarb, My screwdriver broke



PC:  You put the long skinny thing in the big hole in the bottom of the red thing and screw away.  Tiger thinks he can abuse the solar guys because they are illegal, I've got news for him, California has motor/voter now so the illegals can vote, we'll see how they vote as *the inspectors' pension funds collapse*.


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## tmurray (Apr 27, 2018)

conarb said:


> Well Tiger, I'll say it again, if our Calfiornia inspectors can carry screwdrivers why can't you?



They might do it, but is it legal? I can order invasive testing and items uncovered under our legislation, but it does not say I can do it myself.


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## conarb (Apr 27, 2018)

tmurray said:


> They might do it, but is it legal? I can order invasive testing and items uncovered under our legislation, but it does not say I can do it myself.



I guess you should ask your city attorney/county counsel, here they have determined that the liability for inspectors climbing ladders/walking roofs isn't worth the risk, since Tiger has some new rules maybe his jurisdiction has new rules that will keep him off roofs, and maybe they don't want the liability of open panels so they will let Mr. Inspector carry a screw driver.


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## ICE (Apr 27, 2018)

I have removed deadfronts for as long as I have been an inspector.  For all of these years I am not allowed to remove deadfronts.  I prefer doing it myself because that means that the contractor isn't there.  However, the advent of the solar industry has changed things up.  I don't touch the work done by the solar contractors.  Beyond that is the fact that the AHJ has hired a bunch of people that probably shouldn't have a screwdriver unless it comes with a coaster. I am trying to fit in.  That's not going well.


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## conarb (Apr 27, 2018)

ICE said:


> I have removed deadfronts for as long as I have been an inspector.  For all of these years I am not allowed to remove deadfronts.  I prefer doing it myself because that means that the contractor isn't there.  However, the advent of the solar industry has changed things up.  I don't touch the work done by the solar contractors.  Beyond that is the fact that the AHJ has hired a bunch of people that probably shouldn't have a screwdriver unless it comes with a coaster. I am trying to fit in.  That's not going well.


 Poor Tiger is in a tough situation, as you know I've encouraged you to give these solar contractors Hell because of the fraud they are perpetrating on the general public, I can see your point, if you touch their panel and there is a fire you could be blamed.  Interesting that when the sprinkler mandate came in California immediately passed laws requiring all sprinkler fitters have a apprenticeship certificate, in effect requiring all sprinkler systems be installed by union workers, yet when they licensed solar contracators there are no training requirements for the installers, bad sprinkler systems may drench buildings and people, but bad electrical can burn down buildings and kill people.


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## ICE (Jun 29, 2018)

Wide open and waiting for me.  The occupants are there.  The solar employee was sitting in the truck.


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## conarb (Jun 30, 2018)

Looks like Tiger's one-man crusade has worked, *Solar City is shutting down most locations*, the Commies aren't going to like youTiger.


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## ICE (May 1, 2019)

The housewife led me to the side yard.  She opened the cover for the service panel and reached in to retrieve the paperwork.  She said that the nice young man left everything open for me.  I wrote a correction slip that stated that it is unlawful to leave energized equipment unattended with the dead-front removed.  She had a puzzled expression so I said, "It's called dead-front for a reason."


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## ICE (Aug 18, 2019)

It still happens daily.  This is how I found it ....Wide open and energized.  This back yard had a ten year old girl on roller skates playing near the the deadly equipment.  I found the worker playing too.  Playing on his phone out front in a car.  I have no idea if he cares but I can guarantee that he won't forget me. 

The solar industry is a cruel hoax.


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