# Fire alarm existing hotel



## 1910 (Apr 27, 2016)

Hey I am new to inspections and had a question on a hotel that was built back in 1965. The old inspector retired when I got hired. It seems as though he didn't require annual inspections on the manual fire alarms for hotels. Being a lot of the manual fire alarms at the older hotels were not working and seemed to be not working for a while. When I started addressing this situation, hotel owners wanted to start pulling the manual fire alarms off the building. I seem to have got all of them straightened out but can not find an answer for this 1965 hotel which is 2 stories and has about 40 rooms. No interior corridor as all rooms are on the outside, as in couple stairways and balconies for egress for upstairs. This one hotel did pull the fire alarm off the building and I know in the building code before 1965 they did not require a manual fire alarm and NC has no adoption of codes for fire alarms for existing hotels. I tried to look back in general statues to see if they ever required a manual fire alarm for this type of occupancy, but having no luck. I maybe be thinking too much on situation but was thinking hotel probably just didn't put a fire alarm on building to just put one up, that they maybe required at one time to have it.  Any help on this would be greatly appreciated, thanks.


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## cda (Apr 27, 2016)

Hay welcome!!!


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## cda (Apr 27, 2016)

1st problem is what building/fire code and edition was adopted when the building was built.

There could have been some trade offs and one might have been an agreement to install a fire alarm system.

My normal position is maintain what was installed.

Some times I have the business prove it was not required.


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## Builder Bob (Apr 27, 2016)

I would bet :

a. The fire alarm system is a 120 volt system and has never been updated to a low voltage fire alarm with battery back -up

b. To reset the fire alarm, you turn a breaker off, reset the pull station, then restore power

c. The insurance company probably required the manual fire alarm system because smoke detectors were not in the code or normally found because electronic microchip  industry was in its infancy.

d. the system did not call anybody, it had an alarm/bell signal that rang.

I would gladly accept: smoke detection as per current code -  stand alone are fine as long as all smokes are interconnected inside the sleeping units. (better option)


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## ADAguy (Apr 29, 2016)

Hate to bring this up but has the system been updated to provide strobes with the horns?

Does the building have any accessible rooms, with alarms?


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## code2driver (May 9, 2016)

According to 2012 IFC, you would not need a manual system in the building because of Exception 1 of 907.2.8.1 (if there were 1-hour fire partitions between sleeping units and public areas and attic spaces, which is a big if now that I look at it).

I agree that you should require single- or multiple-station smoke alarms as per current code.


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## 1910 (Jun 1, 2016)

Sorry took so long to answer back.  The hotel was built back using the 1958 building code from what I can tell.  Nothing seems to require it under that code the 1958.  Just didn't know if I was missing something since they did have a manual fire alarm on the building (maybe they just put up a fire alarm and wasn't required but most want to save money not spend in putting alarm on building). They took the fire alarm off the building saying that the building code didn't require them to have it at the time it was built (this was before I could go talk to them).  The only thing the hotel has is smoke detectors/co2 in the rooms but are not interconnected.  It is 2 story with no interior hallways. Didn't know if general statue or past code would require them to have it in NC. As far as I can see no NC code requires existing hotels and having trouble finding any statues in the past.  Thanks, just would like to know what route yall would go or if you think they are fine with having no system.


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## FM William Burns (Jun 6, 2016)

2 story with all doors opening to exterior exit access and stairs with single station smoke alarms and CO detectors would be compliant even today.  Speculation.....but the rooms are probably only large enough for single detector/alarm coverage.  Personally I would recommend the facility use the 10 year tamper free smoke alarms though.


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## cda (Jun 6, 2016)

1910 said:


> Hey I am new to inspections and had a question on a hotel that was built back in 1965. The old inspector retired when I got hired. It seems as though he didn't require annual inspections on the manual fire alarms for hotels. Being a lot of the manual fire alarms at the older hotels were not working and seemed to be not working for a while. When I started addressing this situation, hotel owners wanted to start pulling the manual fire alarms off the building. I seem to have got all of them straightened out but can not find an answer for this 1965 hotel which is 2 stories and has about 40 rooms. No interior corridor as all rooms are on the outside, as in couple stairways and balconies for egress for upstairs. This one hotel did pull the fire alarm off the building and I know in the building code before 1965 they did not require a manual fire alarm and NC has no adoption of codes for fire alarms for existing hotels. I tried to look back in general statues to see if they ever required a manual fire alarm for this type of occupancy, but having no luck. I maybe be thinking too much on situation but was thinking hotel probably just didn't put a fire alarm on building to just put one up, that they maybe required at one time to have it.  Any help on this would be greatly appreciated, thanks.





Is there a possibility they were required when built, for whatever reason.

Or a trade off made

I thinking maintain them and do not pull them


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## 1910 (Jun 7, 2016)

If not mistaken this wouldn't be to code today being the individual rooms would have to exit directly to grade not down egress balcony to stairs that go to grade level. So it wouldn't be compliant if built today. It states directly to public way, court, or yard which the commentary states rooms opening to egress balcony with stairs that serves 2nd floor does not apply to this exception. I think I am reading that correctly?

They have already pulled them because the alarm was not working.  I was just trying to make sure I wasn't missing anything that would require them seeing the code didn't require much of anything at that time. Looks like they started requiring manual alarms at the next code cycle and this look like it had to be built using the 58 year code if memory serves right.  I guess they would be to code unless they had built on after it was built, etc...


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## cda (Jun 7, 2016)

You just need to decide what your line in the sand is.

Stick to that and do not change your decision each time the same code item comes up.


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## FM William Burns (Jun 7, 2016)

Have no travel distance info to evaluate except a 40 room assuming 20 up and 20 down with a balcony exit access leading to stair on both ends or center stair meeting a 75 TD.  It surly would have met code in "65".My initial reference was IBC 1019...............


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## Builder Bob (Jun 8, 2016)

That design met code back in the day and may still meet the code -

1019,1026,1016.2.1


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