# "Push N Go" automatic door operator?



## JPohling (Jul 24, 2017)

I have a owner of a commercial office building where the main glass entry doors require more than 5lbs to operate.  He is proposing using an automatic door operator on one of the doors of a pair.  This is a pair of doors but a single door would provide the necessary clearance width for a wheelchair.

The concern I have is that they are proposing a "Push n Go" type of operation.  There is no button for operation, but the door senses that it is being opened and then the automatic operator takes over to open the door.

I have not seen this before, but it seems like it should be acceptable if the door can be moved enough for this sensing device to work with just 5 lbs applied.

What do you folks think?  ever seen this application before?  Code concerns?


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## cda (Jul 24, 2017)

ask the guru about the push type

http://idighardware.com/about-2/


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## tmurray (Jul 24, 2017)

Provided it operates at the desired force, it should be fine.


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## JPohling (Jul 24, 2017)

cda said:


> ask the guru about the push type
> 
> http://idighardware.com/about-2/


Thanks, I just sent the same question to Lori


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## Francis Vineyard (Jul 24, 2017)

If these main entry doors are exterior doors then they are exempted from the 5 lbs max. force "because air pressure differentials and strong winds may prevent doors from being fully automatically closed."

"Once unlatched, a maximum force of 30 pounds is applied to the latch side of the leaf to start the door in motion by overcoming its stationary inertia. Once in motion, it must not take more than 15 pounds of force to keep the door in motion until it reaches its full open position and the required clear width is available."

For assisted power operated doors the code commentary "_Low-energy power-operated doors _are required to comply with BHMA A56.19. These doors are always swinging doors which open automatically upon an action by a person such as pressing a push plate or waving a hand in front of a sensor. Additionally, these doors close automatically and operate with decreased forces and decreased speeds (compared to _power-operated doors_). Least common are _power assisted doors_, which are required to comply with BHMA A156.19. These doors are swinging doors which open by reduced pushing or pulling force on the door-operating hardware, close automatically after the pushing or pulling force is released and function with decreased forces."

As a reminder add directional signage that one of the doors is not accessible and the other is accessible.


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## JPohling (Jul 24, 2017)

Francis,  Where are you seeing this exemption language?  This is not a rated door so I have been applying the 5lb maximum force to keep door in motion.


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## JPohling (Jul 24, 2017)

Francis Vineyard said:


> If these main entry doors are exterior doors then they are exempted from the 5 lbs max. force "because air pressure differentials and strong winds may prevent doors from being fully automatically closed."
> 
> "Once unlatched, a maximum force of 30 pounds is applied to the latch side of the leaf to start the door in motion by overcoming its stationary inertia. Once in motion, it must not take more than 15 pounds of force to keep the door in motion until it reaches its full open position and the required clear width is available."
> 
> ...



Francis,  Where are you seeing this exemption language?  This is not a rated door so I have been applying the 5lb maximum force to keep door in motion.  This is also California.


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## Francis Vineyard (Jul 24, 2017)

JPohling, don't know about California and ADA. Perhaps there's an equivalent.

*ICC/ANSI
404.2.8 Door-Opening Force.* Fire doors shall have the minimum opening force allowable by the appropriate administrative authority. The force for pushing or pulling open doors other than fire doors shall be as follows:

1. Interior hinged door: 5.0 pounds maximum

2. Sliding or folding door: 5.0 pounds maximum

These forces do not apply to the force required to retract latch bolts or disengage other devices that hold the door in a closed position.

*2012 IBC 1008.1.3 Door opening force. *The force for pushing or pulling open interior swinging egress doors, other than _fire doors_, shall not exceed 5 pounds. *For other swinging doors*, as well as sliding and folding doors, the door latch shall release when subjected to a 15-pound force. The door shall be set in motion when subjected to a 30-pound force. The door shall swing to a full open position when subjected to a 15-pound force.

*1008.1.3.1 Location of applied forces. *Forces shall be applied to the latch side of the door.

*2015 IBC 1010.1.3 Door opening force. *The force for pushing or pulling open interior swinging egress doors, other than fire doors, shall not exceed 5 pounds. These forces do not apply to the force required to retract latch bolts or disengage other devices that hold the door in a closed position. *For other swinging doors*, as well as sliding and folding doors, the door latch shall release when subjected to a 15-pound force. The door shall be set in motion when subjected to a 30-pound force. The door shall swing to a full-open position when subjected to a 15-pound force.


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## cda (Jul 24, 2017)

http://idighardware.com/2012/05/decoded-opening-force-and-closing-speed/



http://idighardware.com/2016/11/egress-requirements-for-door-openings/
:::::

The force to open a manual door in a means of egress is limited to 5 pounds for interior, non-fire-rated doors. Other manual doors are limited to opening forces of 15 pounds to release the latch, 30 pounds to set the door in motion, and 15 pounds to swing the door to a fully-open position.  These forces are applied at the latch side of the door.  Power-operated doors are limited to the same forces except that it is allowable for an automatic door to take up to 50 pounds to set the door in motion.  Power-operated doors are required to meet the ANSI/BHMA A156.10 standard, or ANSI/BHMA A156.19 for power-assist or low-energy automatic doors.


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## JPohling (Jul 24, 2017)

I am not aware of any language in the ADA that would allow a non rated exterior door to allow 15 lbs opening force?  Am I missing something?


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## Francis Vineyard (Jul 25, 2017)

Is this applicable in California?

ADA illustrated guidline: https://www.access-board.gov/attachments/article/1752/entrances.pdf


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## JPohling (Jul 25, 2017)

Francis,  Sorry I mispoke,  I ment the CBC, not ADA.  The ADA has seemingly exempted exterior hinged doors.  The CBC has specifically included exterior hinged doors at a 5lb maximum operating force.


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## mark handler (Jul 25, 2017)

Francis Vineyard said:


> Is this applicable in California?
> ADA illustrated guidline: https://www.access-board.gov/attachments/article/1752/entrances.pdf


No, CA limits it to 8.5 pounds CBC 2016  11B-404.2.9


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## JPohling (Jul 25, 2017)

mark handler said:


> No, CA limits it to 8.5 pounds CBC 2016  11B-404.2.9


Mark,  Has there been an amendment?  My 2016 CBC at 11B-404.2.9  #4 specifies  Exterior hinged doors: 5 lbs maximum.?

Ok, I see what your referring too.  That is for other doors when you have a powered door at that location.  Thats not gonna help in this instance.


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## mark handler (Jul 25, 2017)

JPohling said:


> Mark,  Has there been an amendment?  My 2016 CBC at 11B-404.2.9  #4 specifies  Exterior hinged doors: 5 lbs maximum.?
> 
> Ok, I see what your referring too.  That is for other doors when you have a powered door at that location.  Thats not gonna help in this instance.


I was refering to Francis's post


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## teej (Oct 1, 2021)

But,,, does it end there so cleanly?
Do all new construction, accessible path, FIRE DOORS at between 5-15 lbs still require an automatic door opener? by default? Imagine fire-rated corridor with daily POT usage.
Since 5 lbs has been determined to be the maximum ability for individuals to operate independently, 15 lbs force or 30 lbs initial inertial are practically moot and not really very helpful except for fire marshals and door mfrs. Right?? ADA 404.2.9 clearly states that AHJ can allow the door to be a gazillion lbs opening force if they want. Is that because they know anything over 5 lbs must have auto opener anyway? California is a little more strict, but same default position exists regardless. The fire door "exception" is not an exemption from the code or accessible path req's. (?)
Keep in mind, (I think NFPA 80 says) auto openers must have disconnect coordinated with fire alarm and positive latching (hence the 15 lb exception), so a person without 15 lb ability could be in danger in the event of an actual fire or false alarm (if they are not already in the corridor).
I recall reading an official caveat (it may have been technical guidance or interpretive standard) about ADA not intended to solve every condition in the world and that at some point some assistance is expected and relied upon, (like the condition of areas of refuge where risk factors and alternatives are evaluated). Any one recall that kind of text?


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## ADAguy (Oct 28, 2021)

Unique situations require defenseable alternatives, submit and take your chances with documentation. ADA is not one size fits all.


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## Yikes (Nov 9, 2021)

teej said:


> But,,, does it end there so cleanly?
> Do all new construction, accessible path, FIRE DOORS at between 5-15 lbs still require an automatic door opener?


No, CBC 11B-404.2.9 exc. #3 allows required fire (interior)  fire doors to have 15 lb. opening force, all day long, no power assist or automatic opening required.

CBC 11B-404.2.9 exc. #3 would also allow an exterior hinged door that is required to be fire rated to have max. 15 lb. opening force.  
One example of an exterior swinging door that requires a fire protection rating is a door located in an exit court less than 10' wide.

Note that "required" is the operative word.  If your entry doors do not require a fire rating, you can't just install a fire rated door for the purposes of circumventing the 5 lb max requirement.
In the desert areas of so Cal, there areas with high winds where maintenance crews will sometimes crank up the closing force higher than 5 lb. on the adjustable closer, in order to help a nonrated entry door close against the wind.   That tweak is not allowed.


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