# Fire Sprinkler Permit for Renovation



## jar546 (Nov 13, 2019)

In the course of remodeling a dwelling unit within a high-rise, a sprinkler company pulls a permit to relocate sprinklers for the interior renovation. If you are doing an inspection and no one is present and you see this, would that violate any of your local ordinances or codes? It is obvious that the system is turned off to this particular unit at the least


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## steveray (Nov 13, 2019)

Is the building occupied?


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## cda (Nov 13, 2019)

Is that the only question

Would we say something about the system being off?


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## e hilton (Nov 13, 2019)

Looks odd.  Typically we will only have the system valved off while workers are present, and only for short periods.  Might cap off one head for a couple of days, but the rest of the system stays active.  I have posted a fire watch in some cases.


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## jar546 (Nov 13, 2019)

The entire building is occupied


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## mtlogcabin (Nov 13, 2019)

Did you follow the sprinkler pipe to see if it is connected to the existing supply? Is there an isolation valve installed that would isolate this unit from the rest of the building to allow the rest of the building to have sprinkler coverage during this remodel?
A picture might be worth a thousand words however a single picture does not provide enough information


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## cda (Nov 13, 2019)

1. Being a high rise, there is more than likely a floor control valve. Which lets you just shut down the floor you are working on, leaving the rest of the building live.

2. We are not seeing all the piping. What is shown may not be tied in down the line, yet.

3. Or this entire floor is not occupied.

4. Plus a few more possible variables


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## Builder Bob (Nov 13, 2019)

should be a fire watch or a fire sprinkler impairment which should have the fire marshal/ building official notified that the fire sprinkler system is out of service and where, IFC 901.7 and who is the impairment coordinator


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## jar546 (Nov 13, 2019)

OK, as described in the original post,  this is inside a dwelling unit of a high rise.  The dwelling unit is under construction being completely renovated.  It is obvious that the sprinkler system, at least in this dwelling unit is not working as there is no head and no water coming out either.  Yes it is one photo.  Let me simplify this question a little bit more.

Is it OK the have the sprinkler system turned off inside a dwelling unit of an occupied high rise structure without any contingency plans. fire-watch, etc?


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## cda (Nov 13, 2019)

No


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## classicT (Nov 13, 2019)

Considering that CPVC pipe is shown, is the entire building protected by an NFPA 13R/13D system?

Per the OP, it is a high rise.


jar546 said:


> remodeling a dwelling unit within a high-rise



NFPA 13D is only for one and two family dwellings. Per IBC 903.3.1.2, a 13R system is not permitted in Group R occupancies greater than 4-stories or exceeding 60-ft. So...why is CPVC used?

*903.3.1.2 NFPA 13R Sprinkler Systems*
_Automatic sprinkler systems _in Group R occupancies up to and including four stories in height in buildings not exceeding 60 feet (18 288 mm) in height above grade plane shall be permitted to be installed throughout in accordance with NFPA 13R.

The number of stories of Group R occupancies constructed in accordance with Sections 510.2 and 510.4 shall be measured from the horizontal assembly creating separate buildings.

​So, I guess my question is if the sprinkler system is even installed legally?


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## classicT (Nov 13, 2019)

Upon more research, looks like Viking's CPVC "BlazeMaster" pipe may be used in NFPA 13 systems for *light hazard occupancies only.*

From their _Installation Manual (linked)_

*Light Hazard Occupancies*
Viking Plastics BlazeMaster® CPVC fire sprinkler products are UL and C-UL Listed for use in: Light Hazard Occupancies as defined in the National Fire Protection Association Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems, NFPA 13. In accordance with NFPA 13, section 6.3.6.2 (2002, 2007, 2010) and section 3-3.5 (1999), pipe or tube listed for light hazard occupancies shall be permitted to be installed in ordinary hazard rooms of otherwise light hazard occupancies where the room does not exceed 400 square feet. _NOTICE: Local jurisdictions must approve of this application._

*Residential Occupancies* 
Viking Plastics BlazeMaster® CPVC fire sprinkler products are UL and C-UL Listed for use in: Residential occupancies as defined in the National Fire Protection Association Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems in Residential Occupancies Up to and Including Four Stories in Height, NFPA 13R, and residential occupancies as defined in the National Fire Protection Association Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems in One- and Two-Family Dwellings and Manufactured Homes, NFPA 13D.​

So.... does the building qualify as a light hazard occupancy? Per the Residential Occupancies section (above, bold), it does not read as though the product is listed for a full NFPA 13 installation in residential occupancies. Note that this section only references 13R and 13D systems.

Per NFPA 13

*3.3.134.3 Light Hazard Occupancies.*
Occupancies or portions of other occupancies where the quantity and/or combustibility of contents is low and fires with relatively low rates of heat release are expected.​


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## cda (Nov 13, 2019)

Ty J. said:


> Considering that CPVC pipe is shown, is the entire building protected by an NFPA 13R/13D system?
> 
> Per the OP, it is a high rise.
> 
> ...





cvpc can be used in a NFPA 13 system


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## Rick18071 (Nov 14, 2019)

cda said:


> Is that the only question
> 
> Would we say something about the system being off?



Not in my area because they never adopted the IFC just the other ICC codes.


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## steveray (Nov 14, 2019)

System required for occupancy.....No occupancy w/o alternatives and I am not sure how I could get comfortable with that...

3302.1 Alterations, repairs and additions. Required exits,
existing structural elements, fire protection devices and sanitary
safeguards shall be maintained at all times during alterations,
repairs or additions to any building or structure.

3302.3 Fire safety during construction. Fire safety during
construction shall comply with the applicable requirements of
this code and the applicable provisions of Chapter 33 of the
International Fire Code.


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## mtlogcabin (Nov 14, 2019)

jar546 said:


> Is it OK the have the sprinkler system turned off inside a dwelling unit of an occupied high rise structure without any contingency plans. fire-watch, etc?



No there should be an isolation valve as required by IFC (floor or dwelling unit) that would make the system active at the end of each work day

3314.2 Operation of valves.
Operation of sprinkler control valves shall be allowed only by properly authorized personnel and shall be accompanied by notification of duly designated parties. Where the sprinkler protection is being regularly turned off and on to facilitate connection of newly completed segments, the sprinkler control valves shall be checked at the end of each work period to ascertain that protection is in service.


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## classicT (Nov 14, 2019)

cda said:


> cvpc can be used in a NFPA 13 system


Got a reference on that?

Per my posts above, the manufacturer states that it can only be used in light hazard occupancies. Furthermore, it specifies that for residential applications, their UL listings are for NFPA 13R and 13D systems only.

Being that this is a high rise, it is required to be a full NFPA 13 system. 13R and 13D systems are not permitted for the declared use.


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## mtlogcabin (Nov 14, 2019)

https://www.nfpa.org/assets/gallery/firewise/operationWater/step1_3.htm

Occupancies in this class are considered LIGHT hazard occupancies, where quantity and combustibility of contents are low. Any fire would tend to develop at a relatively low rate and have relatively low rates of heat release. 

Examples:


Apartments
Dwellings
Fire stations
Hospitals
Hotels and motels
Libraries (except with large stockroom areas)
Museums
Nursing homes
Offices
Prisons
Schools


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## cda (Nov 14, 2019)

Ty J. said:


> Got a reference on that?
> 
> Per my posts above, the manufacturer states that it can only be used in light hazard occupancies. Furthermore, it specifies that for residential applications, their UL listings are for NFPA 13R and 13D systems only.
> 
> Being that this is a high rise, it is required to be a full NFPA 13 system. 13R and 13D systems are not permitted for the declared use.




As some sayings go


You can have a residential system in a high rise,

But you can’t have a high rise residential in a NFPA 13R/D.


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## cda (Nov 14, 2019)

Will look pretty sure CVPC is in NFPA 13,,,

As an approved pipe


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## cda (Nov 14, 2019)

Yep in NFPA 13 and it’s use is expanding:::



https://sprinklerage.com/nfpa-13-2019-and-cpvc/


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## classicT (Nov 14, 2019)

cda said:


> Yep in NFPA 13 and it’s use is expanding:::
> https://sprinklerage.com/nfpa-13-2019-and-cpvc/


From the article that you referenced, it is still limited to 400sf. 

“Section 16.3.9.6 Nonmetallic pipe listed for light hazard occupancies shall be permitted to be installed in ordinary hazard rooms of otherwise light hazard occupancies *where the room does not exceed 400 ft2 *(37 m2).”​


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## cda (Nov 14, 2019)

Ty J. said:


> From the article that you referenced, it is still limited to 400sf.
> 
> “Section 16.3.9.6 Nonmetallic pipe listed for light hazard occupancies shall be permitted to be installed in ordinary hazard rooms of otherwise light hazard occupancies *where the room does not exceed 400 ft2 *(37 m2).”​




That is a new add, to pick up garages


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## cda (Nov 14, 2019)

It has been allowed in multi story, more than four stories, hotels for at least 25 years.



https://www.blazemaster.com/en-us/building-types/commercial-facilities

This is a 2004 article::


https://www.pmengineer.com/articles/88410-cpvc-design-considerations-for-high-rise-buildings



Last one:

https://www.reminetwork.com/articles/cpvc-fire-sprinkler-retrofits-can-save-buildings/


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## mtlogcabin (Nov 14, 2019)

Ty J. said:


> From the article that you referenced, it is still limited to 400sf.
> 
> “Section 16.3.9.6 Nonmetallic pipe listed for light hazard occupancies shall be permitted to be installed in ordinary hazard rooms of otherwise light hazard occupancies *where the room does not exceed 400 ft2 *(37 m2).”



No, read it again the 400 sq ft limit is for ordinary hazard rooms within a light hazard occupancy 


*Ordinary Hazard (Group 1)* — This classification applies to spaces in which the combustibility of materials present is low and the quantity is moderate, with no stockpiles of combustible material exceeding 8 feet (2.4 meters). Examples of spaces with this classification might include mechanical plants, laundries, food processing facilities or other manufacturing operations in which a fire would release moderate rates of heat.
*Ordinary Hazard (Group 2)* — This classification applies to spaces where the quantity and combustibility of contents are moderate to high, and which may have stockpiles of materials up to 12 feet high (3.7 meters) that could release moderate rates of heat release if ignited. Examples of this occupancy include distilleries, barns and stables, dry cleaners, libraries, machine rooms, and auto repair shops.


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## Builder Bob (Nov 15, 2019)

Blaze Master Piping is allowed per NFPA 13 for light hazards, it is not approved for risers between floors but certainly may be used as depicted- However local amendments/interpretations may eliminate the use of PVC in buildings over X number of stories.


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## cda (Nov 15, 2019)

Builder Bob said:


> Blaze Master Piping is allowed per NFPA 13 for light hazards, it is not approved for risers between floors but certainly may be used as depicted- However local amendments/interpretations may eliminate the use of PVC in buildings over X number of stories.


 

It is approved for risers between floors, as long as installed per manufacture listing


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## Builder Bob (Nov 16, 2019)

Must have changed over the years --- Find out your self with this

https://www.tyco-fire.com/e-catalog/Tyco-CPVC-BlazeMaster-Installation/#p=21


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