# Reach range coffee pump



## jar546 (May 16, 2011)

Higher than 48" and approximately 26" back off the counter edge.  The one on the upper section in the back.

What say thee?


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## mark handler (May 16, 2011)

ANSI 117- 2003 308.3 Side Reach.

308.3.1 Unobstructed. Where a clear floor space allows a parallel approach to an element and the side reach is unobstructed, the high side reach shall be 48 inches (1220 mm) maximum and the low side reach shall be 15 inches (380 mm) minimum above the floor.

EXCEPTION: Existing elements shall be permitted at 54 inches (1370 mm) maximum above the floor.

* By the way, it's the same in the ANSI 117-98*


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## jeharrarch (May 17, 2011)

Does a coffee carafe count as an "architectural or mechanical component" of the building? It clearly isn't fixed to the counter... and an existing condition - Is there an attendant/cashier that can assist the disabled user? And why would anyone want Decaf, anyway?? If we're dinging the coffee carafe, then what about the electrical outlet - it's certainly further out of reach.

How does one (a) regulate getting to and (b) functionally reach grocery items on the top shelves of prototypical supermarket shelving? They are significantly beyond the 48" maximum height limit. (is it ADA 225.2.2? which is not required to comply with 308?)


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## Papio Bldg Dept (May 17, 2011)

Per 602.4.1 of the ANSI A117.1-2003, the lower carafes are for wheelchair access, while the higher carafe is for standing persons.


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## brudgers (May 17, 2011)

jar546 said:
			
		

> What say thee?


Not covered by the building code.

Is an architectural barrier, under ADAAG.


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## mtlogcabin (May 17, 2011)

agree with brudgers, not a built in fixture.


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## RJJ (May 17, 2011)

I agree, but it also looks like the front one makes the grade.


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## rshuey (May 17, 2011)

Looks like someone's on the Jared Diet.


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## Papio Bldg Dept (May 17, 2011)

brudgers said:
			
		

> Not covered by the building code.Is an architectural barrier, under ADAAG.


...and 1109.8.2 in the 2006 IBC confirms it:  Such shelving and display units shall not be required to comply with reach-range provisions.


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## pwood (May 17, 2011)

jeharrarch said:
			
		

> Does a coffee carafe count as an "architectural or mechanical component" of the building? It clearly isn't fixed to the counter... and an existing condition - Is there an attendant/cashier that can assist the disabled user? And why would anyone want Decaf, anyway?? If we're dinging the coffee carafe, then what about the electrical outlet - it's certainly further out of reach. How does one (a) regulate getting to and (b) functionally reach grocery items on the top shelves of prototypical supermarket shelving? They are significantly beyond the 48" maximum height limit. (is it ADA 225.2.2? which is not required to comply with 308?)


next time you go to a walmart or costco look for a sign that says they will assist anyone with a disability that needs help.


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## jar546 (May 17, 2011)

Each coffee is a different flavor so the access to each is not the same


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## High Desert (May 18, 2011)

jar546 said:
			
		

> Each coffee is a different flavor so the access to each is not the same


Huh? So in a grocery store we would regulate which food items have to be within the reach ranges so every type of color and flavor was accessible?

I don't think you can regulate portable items like coffee carafes.


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## mtlogcabin (May 18, 2011)

mark handler said:
			
		

> ANSI 117- 2003 308.3 Side Reach.
> 
> 308.3.1 Unobstructed. Where a clear floor space allows a parallel approach to an element and the side reach is unobstructed, the high side reach shall be 48 inches (1220 mm) maximum and the low side reach shall be 15 inches (380 mm) minimum above the floor.
> 
> ...


This section does not tell you what is required to be within the reach range requirements. Granted a selve serve coffee carafe and a selve serve fountain soda dispenser provide products to a customer but one is a built in fixture with water, electric and a drain connected to the dispenser. A coffee carafe is not connected to the building and therefore not a building code issue


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## jar546 (May 18, 2011)

High Desert said:
			
		

> Huh? So in a grocery store we would regulate which food items have to be within the reach ranges so every type of color and flavor was accessible?I don't think you can regulate portable items like coffee carafes.


Nope, I am just putting this all out there for discussion and debate.


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## Papio Bldg Dept (May 18, 2011)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> This section does not tell you what is required to be within the reach range requirements. Granted a selve serve coffee carafe and a selve serve fountain soda dispenser provide products to a customer but one is a built in fixture with water, electric and a drain connected to the dispenser. A coffee carafe is not connected to the building and therefore not a building code issue


One more time for good measure in case anybody missed it before:  The ANSI A117.1 is not a scoping mechanism.  Chapter 11 of the IBC is your scoping mechanism and determines what is regulated and not...and 1109.8.2 in the 2006 IBC confirms it: Such shelving and display units shall not be required to comply with reach-range provisions.


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## David Henderson (May 18, 2011)

You have to like the way Jar the mind working, and see how we do it thru out the good OLE USA.


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## mtlogcabin (May 18, 2011)

> Chapter 11 of the IBC is your scoping mechanism and determines what is regulated and not...


You have to use the referenced standard in the back of the IBC to find what portions of which Chapters are applicable;

Example ramps only refer to use the ICC/ANSI A117.1 standard in three sections,  1010.1, 1010.6.5, 1010.9,

You also would not look at ANSI 505 for handrail requirements, they are covered under IBC Section 1012

Some times as code officials we jump to the standard instead of looking for the charging lanquage to send us to where we want to go.


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## Rick18071 (May 20, 2011)

*IBC 1109.12 *controls, operating mechanisms and hardware intended for the operation by the occupant .....in accessible spaces, along accessible routes, or parts of assessable elements *shall *be accessible. With some exceptions but not for this.

Sometimes the hot water spigot on the coffee machine for tea is to high.

I make them lower all of them.

Items on shelves in markets are not controls, etc.

What section says it's OK if they have a sign?


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## mtlogcabin (May 20, 2011)

> controls, operating mechanisms and hardware


I disagree, the words controls, operating mechanisms and hardware refer to items that operate amenities within the building such as thermostats, drop down screens, lights, fans, appliances would be controls. Operating mechanisms would be window cranks, how blinds and window shade are operated and door knobs. Hardware would include window and door locks, latches and other similar devices.

I agree with others 1109.8.2 covers this and the commentary seems to agree.

" The intent of this section is that persons who utilize wheelchairs can see items on shelves in stores and libraries, but someone may be required to assist them in reaching the items."


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## mark handler (May 20, 2011)

If self-service condiments, utensils, or tableware are provided, then they should be located no higher than 54 inches if a side reach is possible or 48 inches for a forward reach (see Section 4.2 of the ADA Standards for Accessible Design).

*If it is not readily achievable to provide these items in an accessible location, a business can provide staff assistance, if doing so is readily achievable.*

Sales items may be located at any height but sales staff should be available, on request, to reach items for customers

It is not necessary to locate all merchandise within reach of people who use wheelchairs. Items can be placed at any height but staff should be available to assist customers who may have difficulty reaching or viewing items.

http://www.ada.gov/smbusgd.pdf


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