# Restroom = Occupiable Space???



## Mech

2009 IMC

Per the mechanical code's definition of occupiable space, is a restroom occupiable space?

*OCCUPIABLE SPACE. *An  enclosed space intended for human activities, excluding those spaces  intended primarily for other purposes, such as storage rooms and _equipment_ rooms, that are only intended to be occupied occasionally and for short periods of time.

Thanks!


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## Gregg Harris

Mech said:
			
		

> 2009 IMCPer the mechanical code's definition of occupiable space, is a restroom occupiable space?
> 
> *OCCUPIABLE SPACE. *An  enclosed space intended for human activities, excluding those spaces  intended primarily for other purposes, such as storage rooms and _equipment_ rooms, that are only intended to be occupied occasionally and for short periods of time.
> 
> Thanks!


I would say no.


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## klarenbeek

I would disagree and say yes.  A storage or equipment room will usually be occupied infrequently, possibly not being entered for several days, and the primary purpose of these spaces is for things to be in.  A restroom will usually be used frequently throughout a day, and the primary purpose of a restroom definitely involves human activities.  Also, restrooms are required to have ventilation in the ventilation tables in chapter 4 of the IMC. Storerooms and equipment rooms are not.


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## Pcinspector1

IBC definition: A little different,

OCCUPIABLE SPACE. A room or enclosed space designed for human occupancy in which individuals congregate for amusement, educational or similar purposes or in which occupants are engaged at labor, and which is equipped with means of egress and light and ventilation facilities meeting the requirements of this code.

I vote not occupiable, based on the IBC comentary, i regards to: toilet rooms, mechanical rooms and closets!

pc1


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## Gregg Harris

The only 2  places in the IMC that I am aware of that the new term "occupiable space" is used is in 403.2 Outdoor air required. The minimum outdoor airflow rate shall be determined in accordance with section 403.3. Ventilation supply systems shall be designed to deliver the required rate of outdoor airflow to the breathing zone within each "occupiable space".

The second location is 403.3.1.1 Breathing zone outdoor airflow. The outdoor airflow rate required in the breathing zone (Vbz) of the "occupiable space" in a zone shall be determined in accordance with equation 4-1  (Rp) people outdoor air rate: the outdoor airflow rate required per person from table 403.3

(Ra) Area outdoor air rate: the outdoor airflow rate required per unit area from table 403.3

Looking at table 403.3 under bathrooms the (Ra) and (Rp) are  -0-


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## cda

I hope it is an occupiable space and I do labor in it!!!

How about these mega seater bathrooms????


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## Gregg Harris

cda said:
			
		

> I hope it is an occupiable space and I do labor in it!!!How about these mega seater bathrooms????


There is medication for that.


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## Mech

100% outside air is supplied to the space just to be exhausted, there are no heaters in the room, and the restrooms do not have any exterior walls.

Here is the ultimate goal of this thread: Can 30 degree air be used as make up air (intermittently when the restroom is used) as far as the mechanical code is concerned?  If a restroom in not occupiable, can 30 degree air be supplied provided it does drop the temperature of the surrounding occupiable rooms?  I am not proposing this situation nor would I.  Someone else may.

IMC Section 309.1

*Space-heating systems.*  Interior spaces intended for human occupancy shall be provided with  active or passive space-heating systems capable of maintaining a minimum  indoor temperature of 68°F (20°C) at a point 3 feet (914 mm) above  floor on the design heating day. The installation of portable space  heaters shall not be used to achieve compliance with this section.


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## codeworks

let me think about this, if i'm not occupying the restroom when i'm actually on the throne, who is ? some of this stuff makes no sense whatsoever


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## Gregg Harris

Mech said:
			
		

> 100% outside air is supplied to the space just to be exhausted, there are no heaters in the room, and the restrooms do not have any exterior walls.Here is the ultimate goal of this thread: Can 30 degree air be used as make up air (intermittently when the restroom is used) as far as the mechanical code is concerned?  If a restroom in not occupiable, can 30 degree air be supplied provided it does drop the temperature of the surrounding occupiable rooms?  I am not proposing this situation nor would I.  Someone else may.
> 
> IMC Section 309.1
> 
> *Space-heating systems.*  Interior spaces intended for human occupancy shall be provided with  active or passive space-heating systems capable of maintaining a minimum  indoor temperature of 68°F (20°C) at a point 3 feet (914 mm) above  floor on the design heating day. The installation of portable space  heaters shall not be used to achieve compliance with this section.


*I would think the air would need to be tempered in some way to prevent plumbing from freezing.*


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## Mech

Gregg Harris said:
			
		

> I would think the air would need to be tempered in some way to prevent plumbing from freezing.


It is tempered - up from around 0.  Maybe if we add some heat tracing???


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## Keystone

Can't speak to the IMC but... IPC 305.6 (protection against freezing) & IECC 502 (envelope)...


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## ICE

I've seen many bathroom doors that have a little tiny sign near the lock that says occupied when it's occupied.


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## LGreene

We had a related discussion a while ago in regard to egress from a bathroom:  http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/commercial-building-codes/2354-egress-door.html.  The answer I got from the ICC is that a toilet room isn't occupiable based on the definition in the IBC.


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## Francis Vineyard

Mech said:
			
		

> 100% outside air is supplied to the space just to be exhausted, there are no heaters in the room, and the restrooms do not have any exterior walls.Here is the ultimate goal of this thread: Can 30 degree air be used as make up air (intermittently when the restroom is used) as far as the mechanical code is concerned? If a restroom in not occupiable, can 30 degree air be supplied provided it does drop the temperature of the surrounding occupiable rooms? I am not proposing this situation nor would I. Someone else may.
> 
> IMC Section 309.1
> 
> *Space-heating systems.* Interior spaces intended for human occupancy shall be provided with active or passive space-heating systems capable of maintaining a minimum indoor temperature of 68°F (20°C) at a point 3 feet (914 mm) above floor on the design heating day. The installation of portable space heaters shall not be used to achieve compliance with this section.


*Don't know how the IMC speaks to this but that is exactly the setup we have with smoking allowed in restaurants to provide separate permanent space heaters and natural ventilation in the rest rooms.*

*What about restrooms in restaurants? Do they have to be smoke free?*



*Yes. The law prohibits smoking in all restrooms in a restaurant.*



*Can the restrooms be located adjacent to or in the smoking area of a restaurant? If so, does the owner have to provide a “smoke-free path” from the non-smoking area to the restrooms? *



*Yes, the restrooms can be located adjacent to or in the smoking area of a restaurant but smoking in the restrooms is prohibited. The smoking area must be physically separated from the restrooms and must be vented separately from the restrooms. However, the law does not require a smoke-free path from the non-smoking area of a restaurant to the restrooms so a patron from the non-smoking area of the restaurant may have to travel through the smoking area to get to the restrooms. Restaurant owners and proprietors are encouraged to consider placing restrooms in non-smoking areas or creating smoke-free paths from the non-smoking area to the restrooms.*

*Restaurants and smoking in Virginia FAQS*

*Francis*


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## globe trekker

I vote not occupiable based upon the definition in the 2009 IBC. Also, according to

Section 201.3 (also, in the 2009 IBC), ..*201.3 = Terms defined in other codes.*

Where terms are not defined in this code and are defined in the _International Fuel_

_Gas Code, International Fire Code_, _International Mechanical Code_ or _International_

_Plumbing Code,_ such terms shall have the meanings ascribed to them as in those

codes.

By default, the IBC provides the definition in which to call a restroom occupiable

or not, and not the IMC!

.


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## Mech

globe trekker said:
			
		

> Also, according toSection 201.3 (also, in the 2009 IBC), ..*201.3 = Terms defined in other codes.*
> 
> Where terms are not defined in this code and are defined in the _International Fuel_
> 
> _Gas Code, International Fire Code_, _International Mechanical Code_ or _International_
> 
> _Plumbing Code,_ such terms shall have the meanings ascribed to them as in those
> 
> codes.
> 
> By default, the IBC provides the definition in which to call a restroom occupiable
> 
> or not, and not the IMC!


Both the IBC and the IMC have definitions for occupiable space.  The problem is they are different.

I would think the Mechanical Code's definition trumps the Building Code's definition in regard to applying the Mechanical Code


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## globe trekker

> I would think the Mechanical Code's definition trumps the Building Code's definition in regard toapplying the Mechanical Code


The IBC defines the use of a space/room/area. Once that is accomplished, then the

other codes apply in how to construct that space/room/area, or at least, that is how

I have been taught.

If a definition were not available in the IBC, then the other code definitions would

apply.

.


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## rleibowitz

Great discussion but I'm temped to ask what differance does it make. What does it have to do with? Why is it important, How did it come up, "Where's the beef"


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## tmurray

rleibowitz said:
			
		

> Great discussion but I'm temped to ask what differance does it make. What does it have to do with? Why is it important, How did it come up, "Where's the beef"


Agreed. It sounds like you should be looking at the intent of the code provision rather than mincing words.


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## Mech

> Can 30 degree air be used as  make up air (intermittently when the restroom is used) as far as the  mechanical code is concerned? If a restroom in not occupiable, can 30  degree air be supplied provided it does drop the temperature of the  surrounding occupiable rooms?


Here are the minimum 10 characters required so the website will allow this posting.


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## Gregg Harris

Mech said:
			
		

> Here are the minimum 10 characters required so the website will allow this posting.


Start with 403.4 Exhaust ventilation. The bathrooms require exhaust, interment or continuous according to 406.3 based on fixtures.


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## Mech

350 cfm exhaust

350 cfm dedicated supply

Once the outside temps drop too low, the electric resistance duct heater will not be able to keep the air warm.


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## mtlogcabin

309.1 is a requirement for human occupancy not human activities.

I would defer to the IBC that a rest room is not intended for "human occupancy" and agree heated make up air is not required.


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## Francis Vineyard

Gregg Harris said:
			
		

> Start with 403.4 Exhaust ventilation. The bathrooms require exhaust, interment or continuous according to 406.3 based on fixtures.





			
				mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> 309.1 is a requirement for human occupancy not human activities.I would defer to the IBC that a rest room is not intended for "human occupancy" and agree heated make up air is not required.


Second!

*401.2 Ventilation required.* Every occupied space shall be ventilated by natural means in accordance with Section 402 or by mechanical means in accordance with Section 403. 



402 allow a window to provide the minimum amount of fresh air; it can be total outside air IMO.

403 list exhaust & ventilation for public toilet or restrooms including minimum outdoor air.

Whether you want to use the IBC or IMC the heating requirements are the same;  temperature measurement taken at a point 3 ft. above the floor from a wall heater:

*309.1 Space-heating systems.* Interior spaces intended for human occupancy shall be provided with active or passive space-heating systems capable of maintaining a minimum indoor temperature of 68°F (20°C) at a point 3 feet (914 mm) above floor on the design heating day.

*1204.1 Equipment and systems.* Interior spaces intended for human occupancy shall be provided with active or passive space-heating systems capable of maintaining a minimum indoor temperature of 68°F (20°C) at a point 3 feet (914 mm) above the floor on the design heating day.

Francis


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## lunatick

I think we need Bill Clinton to clear this up.

For it depends upon your definition of what the word is is?

It should not counts toward occupant load, but it does need to be ventilated.


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## Fritz

Better question.

Does a Toilet Room, WC and hand lav. only, require exhaust ventilation?

IBC 1203.4.2.1 2012

Just seems like I am missing somthing here.

Fritz


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## klarenbeek

Fritz said:
			
		

> Better question.Does a Toilet Room, WC and hand lav. only, require exhaust ventilation?
> 
> IBC 1203.4.2.1 2012
> 
> Just seems like I am missing somthing here.
> 
> Fritz


Yes it does. IMC section 403.3. Table 403.3 specifically lists toilet rooms as requiring exhaust


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## Yankee

I contend that a bathroom IS occupiable space. It IS NOT habitable space.


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## jar546

Yankee said:
			
		

> I contend that a bathroom IS occupiable space. It IS NOT habitable space.


i agree.  The more restrictive would apply and I believe the intent is to provide a controlled temperature inside the thermal envelope.


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## Fritz

I do understand the mechanical code table.  I am just use to the building code driving when something is required.

it then directs you to which ever code (IMC) addresses the design, how and where to install the equipment.

The building code, by lack of inclusion, does not address ventilation requirements for just a toilet room.

OK, who would want one that way?  The designer who proposes the recirculating fan.  Which no longer

has a valid research report.


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## klarenbeek

Just because one code does not address an item does not mean it can be ignored in another code that is adopted.  There are other discrepancies between the IMC and the IBC as well.  Drywall is not considered a combustible in the IBC, but it is in the IMC.  BTW, this is coming from the point of view of someone who enforces the IMC/IFGC only.


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## Francis Vineyard

Fritz said:
			
		

> I do understand the mechanical code table. I am just use to the building code driving when something is required.it then directs you to which ever code (IMC) addresses the design, how and where to install the equipment.
> 
> The building code, by lack of inclusion, does not address ventilation requirements for just a toilet room.
> 
> OK, who would want one that way? The designer who proposes the recirculating fan. Which no longer
> 
> has a valid research report.


I had not ever consider this would be an issue and did not realized until Fritz mentioned this that Chapter 28 refers to IMC.

I took for granted that it was because Virginia included the Table and the heating requirements in Chapter 28; what a surprise!


Add Section 2801.1.2 to the IBC to read:


​

*2801.1.2 Required heating in nonresidential structures. *
​


Heating facilities shall be required in every enclose doccupied space in nonresidential structures. The heating facilities shall be capable of producing sufficient heat during the period from October 1 to May 15 to maintain a temperature of not less than 65°F (18°C) during all working hours. The required room temperature shall be measured at a point three feet (914 mm) above the floor and three feet (914mm) from the exterior walls. 

Processing, storage and operation areas that require cooling or special temperature conditions and areas in which persons are primarily engaged in vigorous physical activities are exempt from these requirements.



Francis
​


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## Yikes

I'm going to resurrect this thread, from a slightly different approach.  I've seen public restrooms and shower rooms at the beach, at campgrounds, and in kiosks in urban settings that do not have space heating.

IBC 1204. mentions "human occupancy", and we've debated that.  But is also has exception #1 that does nto require heating:  "Interior spaces where the primary purpose is not associated with human comfort".

In one sense, you could say that a toilet is all about human comfort.  But for public toilets and showers, they're really all about sanitation.  In fact, the municipalities seem to be working hard to make the toilets NOT relaxing or comfortable, so people who are homeless won't use them as shelters.

Why Portland's Public Toilets Succeeded Where Others Failed - John Metcalfe - The Atlantic Cities

I currently have a client who is providing toilets and showers for their homeless population.  They DON'T want the rooms to be a hang-out place.  They would prefer not to heat the rooms at all, except to keep pipes from freezing (a rare occurence - - this is metropolitan Los Angeles).

What say you?


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