# Pop up drains



## DAYWALKER (Nov 4, 2011)

My plumbing inspector is questioning if an ada lav is allowed to have a pop up drain....he encountered 2 of them at a final inspection last night of a new commercial office building.

He does'nt think they are legal........are they?


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## Examiner (Nov 4, 2011)

I was told if a device can be operated with a closed fist it complies.  Good question I will have to try opening and closing a pop up drain.  I will email the post to my ADA contact and see what the Access Board has to say.


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## DAYWALKER (Nov 4, 2011)

Examiner.......thanks!!!!!!


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## fatboy (Nov 4, 2011)

I don't think a pop up drain is a requirement, or if it is provided, must be an accessable element.


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## Examiner (Nov 7, 2011)

_309.4 Operation.  Operable parts shall be operable with one hand and shall not require tight grasping, pinching, or twisting of the wrist.  The force required to activate operable parts shall be 5 pounds (22.2 N) maximum. _

Access Board stated that control devices must comply with 309.  However, the Guidelines do not specifically call out a pop-up drain.  It is therefore, assumed as I see it an operable part for an accessible fixture.


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## iggentleman (Nov 7, 2011)

If it is the type operated by a plunder (push down for open, pull up for closed) how do you pull it up without tight grasping?


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## globe trekker (Nov 7, 2011)

> "If it is the type operated by a plunder (push down for open, pull up for closed) how do youpull it up without tight grasping?"


I would not want to be physically challenged to find out. Isn't there typically a plunger that ispart of the lav hardware that raises or lowers the drain it self?

.


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## fatboy (Nov 7, 2011)

Typically, we don't see them at all in a commercial application, and my response was in the frame of mind that they aren't required. But, others are correct, they would not be accessible, so therefor, you can't have them. A little backwards logic in my opinion, but it is, what it is.


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## mark handler (Nov 7, 2011)

I would tend to say they are ADA Compliant.

There is nothing prohibiting them

You can raise and lower most of them with a fist.

They are not usually provided in commercial applications but are in hotels.


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## iggentleman (Nov 7, 2011)

This is the one in my office. Can't be lifted without grasping.

View attachment 495


View attachment 495


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## mark handler (Nov 7, 2011)

And rather than being the Lavatory Faucet "ADA Compliance officer", tell the contractor to get the Manufacture verify the ADA Compliance, which you put in the file.


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## mark handler (Nov 7, 2011)

iggentleman said:
			
		

> This is the one in my office. Can't be lifted without grasping.


Put your fist on the side and lift, it will.


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## Examiner (Nov 7, 2011)

iggentleman, why is there a grab bar over the lav?  I do not think it is suppose to do that.


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## iggentleman (Nov 7, 2011)

mark handler said:
			
		

> Put your fist on the side and lift, it will.


Might be possible, with difficulty, but you need a smaller hand than mine.



			
				Examiner said:
			
		

> iggentleman, why is there a grab bar over the lav?  I do not think it is suppose to do that.


Agree, it's not correct. The lav and wc are too close.

In 1997 we took over the space "as is" (carpet and paint only, so no building permit needed). The last work on the space that needed a permit was around 1989. Grab bars were added after that as an accommodation, and they fit it in best they could.

In two weeks we move to a new building, so it will be the next tenant's problem.


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## Paul Sweet (Nov 8, 2011)

A pop-up drain that is properly installed and adjusted will open with your fingers spread slightly apart.  It doesn't take a tight grip.  If it takes more than 5 pounds force to open, then it's overtightened and doesn't comply.

A closed fist is an easy test for control accessibility, but not everything that can't be operated with a closed fist is noncompliant.


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