# walk through unconditioned basement to finished work out room in basement



## jail (Mar 6, 2021)

My building inspector told me I can't go down the cellar stairs and walk through a unconditioned basement to a new finished work out room in the other end of the basement.
I can find no code that states this. Also, it would be impossible to condition the whole basement because the stairway is against the basement wall. House is 70 years old.


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## cda (Mar 6, 2021)

Ask the nice inspector for the code section/s 

So you can review them and 

If not provided can’t enforce 

I take it you are remodeling , but have not done it yet??

So does he allow you in the basement pre-remodel?


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## jail (Mar 6, 2021)

I would like to know what the code says about this before I discuss it with him again. This is a remodel and an addition. The addition basement has a walk out with a slider where the new finished room will be. This room will not be used for sleeping or eating. There will not be a bathroom.


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## e hilton (Mar 6, 2021)

jail said:


> I would like to know what the code says about this before I discuss it with him again.


And people in hell want ice water.  Be nice, send him an email, ask for the code section.


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## cda (Mar 6, 2021)

jail said:


> I would like to know what the code says about this before I discuss it with him again. This is a remodel and an addition. The addition basement has a walk out with a slider where the new finished room will be. This room will not be used for sleeping or eating. There will not be a bathroom.




Well problem is if there is not a code section for us to give you,,,,  cannot tell you what to check in the code 

Ask the person that says it is wrong

I get questioned all the time, and I am wrong sometimes.


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## fatboy (Mar 7, 2021)

I hate to be the bearer of potentially bad news, but this is maybe where the Inspector is coming from, 2018 IRC:

R311.1 Means of egress. Dwellings shall be provided with a means of egress in accordance with this section. The means of egress shall provide a continuous and unobstructed path of vertical and horizontal egress travel* from all portions of the dwelling to the required egress door* without requiring travel through a garage. The required egress door shall open directly into a public way or to a yard or court that opens to a public way.

Of course that means a code compliant path.

I think it is a reach, if the only issue is conditioned space.

When you say "cellar" stairs, that threw a flag for me.

Are the stairs compliant?

Is there compliant headroom to  the space?


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## e hilton (Mar 7, 2021)

jail said:


> My building inspector told me I can't go down the cellar stairs and walk through a unconditioned basement


Are you over-simplyfying this?   You make it sound like he won’t let you walk through the space.  Is he actually saying you can’t use that path as your MOE?


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## jail (Mar 7, 2021)

e hilton said:


> Are you over-simplyfying this?   You make it sound like he won’t let you walk through the space.  Is he actually saying you can’t use that path as your MOE?


He is saying I can't finish the room in the basement if I have to walk through unconditioned space to get to it.


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## jail (Mar 7, 2021)

fatboy said:


> I hate to be the bearer of potentially bad news, but this is maybe where the Inspector is coming from, 2018 IRC:
> 
> R311.1 Means of egress. Dwellings shall be provided with a means of egress in accordance with this section. The means of egress shall provide a continuous and unobstructed path of vertical and horizontal egress travel* from all portions of the dwelling to the required egress door* without requiring travel through a garage. The required egress door shall open directly into a public way or to a yard or court that opens to a public way.
> 
> ...


The stairs can be rebuilt to be compliant. I have 7' of headroom. The new room will have an 8' slider to the back yard.


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## ICE (Mar 7, 2021)

jail said:


> He is saying I can't finish the room in the basement if I have to walk through unconditioned space to get to it.


Well that would be a code that I am not familiar with.....but there's plenty that I don't know.....it might be some newfound folly from the energy code....lots of strange code there.


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## e hilton (Mar 7, 2021)

Sounds like miscommunication ... misunderstanding, and the OP got his hackles up and won’t ask for clarification.  Not a good way to do business.


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## jail (Mar 7, 2021)

This building inspector does not like to be questioned. I want to know what I am talking about before I do. I sometimes do work in three hundred year old houses in this town. He could make me replace every piece of wood in a house if he wants to. I tread lightly.


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## cda (Mar 7, 2021)

jail said:


> This building inspector does not like to be questioned. I want to know what I am talking about before I do. I sometimes do work in three hundred year old houses in this town. He could make me replace every piece of wood in a house if he wants to. I tread lightly.




Is this a one horse town?????


As in does he have a boss??

I get questioned all the time,,,,   If need be, since you will continue to work there, call him out!!!!!!  Get this resolved


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## e hilton (Mar 7, 2021)

jail said:


> This building inspector does not like to be questioned.


There is a difference between asking for clarification and additional information ... and being confrontational.  Tell him you are not familiar with that requirement and can he please provide a code section.


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## Darren Emery (Mar 7, 2021)

jail said:


> This building inspector does not like to be questioned. I want to know what I am talking about before I do. I sometimes do work in three hundred year old houses in this town. He could make me replace every piece of wood in a house if he wants to. I tread lightly.


Which codes have been adopted locally?  And are you aware of any amendments?  I have found it always helps to make sure both parties are working out of the correct book...right from the start.


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## ICE (Mar 7, 2021)

jail said:


> This building inspector does not like to be questioned. I want to know what I am talking about before I do. I sometimes do work in three hundred year old houses in this town. He could make me replace every piece of wood in a house if he wants to. I tread lightly.


An inspector can't make you do anything.  An inspector can refuse to approve something.  I do it often.  You can do whatever you want in the face of my refusal to approve it.  If I am wrong, I will be made aware of my mistake.  If I am correct, you can still do whatever you want and I can continue to refuse to approve it.

Be aware that the last word is never the inspector's.  That's not to say that it is yours.  It's just to say that inspectors are paper tigers. Like wizards from Oz, some rely on bluff and bluster.


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## cda (Mar 7, 2021)

ICE said:


> An inspector can't make you do anything.  An inspector can refuse to approve something.  I do it often.  You can do whatever you want in the face of my refusal to approve it.  If I am wrong, I will be made aware of my mistake.  If I am correct, you can still do whatever you want and I can continue to refuse to approve it.
> 
> Be aware that the last word is never the inspector's.  That's not to say that it is yours.  It's just to say that inspectors are paper tigers. Like wizards from Oz, some rely on bluff and bluster.




Plus,, there is the categories of

Jerk

Because I told you

I don't know the code

Or mine,  been doing it to long, and trying to enforce the 1977 UBC


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## Rick18071 (Mar 8, 2021)

Isn't there a egress door on the first floor? Are you allowed to go out that door and walk around the outside of the house to the basement door to get in that room? I don't know of any code section that would not allow to walk through a unconditioned area to a conditioned area. If that was true you won't be allowed to have a breezeway between a house and a heated garage.


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## steveray (Mar 8, 2021)

I believe your inspector is mistaken unless there is a weird local amendment....Do you mind saying the Town? I know some NH guys....


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## tmurray (Mar 8, 2021)

I find it strange that there would be a reference made to unconditioned space. I can't imagine any amendment that would require all conditioned space to be accessible without passing through an unconditioned area. As long as the two conditioned areas meet the requirements of the code, why does the building official care if you have to walk through an unconditioned area?

Sounds like an unregulated design decision to me.


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## Jimmy T (Mar 25, 2021)

On anything that might be questioned I try to include the code reference on the inspection form, this prevents this type of situation. You have the code reference, now explain to me why you think I am wrong, if I am wrong it will not be the first time, and likely not the last. I am in a one horse town, I am the sole inspector/ building official for city and county. I was an electrical contractor for 15 years before I took this job so I have seen a lot of inspectors that only have one code reference, " because I said so". I strive every day to not be like these guys, I do not want to be labeled as having the "ten pound badge syndrome".


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## fatboy (Mar 25, 2021)

Keep up the good work Jimmy T!


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## Jboren (Mar 25, 2021)

jail said:


> My building inspector told me I can't go down the cellar stairs and walk through a unconditioned basement to a new finished work out room in the other end of the basement.
> I can find no code that states this. Also, it would be impossible to condition the whole basement because the stairway is against the basement wall. House is 70 years old.


IBC 2015 - Section 1209 - Access to unoccupied Spaces


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## cda (Mar 25, 2021)

Jboren said:


> IBC 2015 - Section 1209 - Access to unoccupied Spaces




it is a house


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## Jboren (Mar 25, 2021)

cda said:


> it is a house


I understand, but not sure why it matters?


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## ADAguy (Mar 25, 2021)

Rick18071 said:


> Isn't there a egress door on the first floor? Are you allowed to go out that door and walk around the outside of the house to the basement door to get in that room? I don't know of any code section that would not allow to walk through a unconditioned area to a conditioned area. If that was true you won't be allowed to have a breezeway between a house and a heated garage.


Could his be semantics? He means to say rated area as opposed to open studs?


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## Paul Sweet (Mar 25, 2021)

I would expect the IRC (International Residential Code) to apply, unless your state doesn't use it.

IBC 1209 just says how large the access panel  to an unoccupied space needs to be.

If the inspector wants to stick with the IBC, you can try 1204.1 Exception 1:

"1204.1Equipment and systems.​Interior spaces intended for human occupancy shall be provided with active or passive space heating systems capable of maintaining an indoor temperature of not less than 68°F (20°C) at a point 3 feet (914 mm) above the floor on the design heating day.
Exceptions: Space heating systems are not required for:

Interior spaces where the primary purpose of the space is not associated with human comfort.
Group F, H, S or U occupancies."


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## Jenks (Mar 25, 2021)

cda said:


> Ask the nice inspector for the code section/s
> 
> So you can review them and
> 
> ...


Tell him it’s separate from the house like a garage with room over it.


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## Jenks (Mar 25, 2021)

This is so god damn ridiculous. What is wrong with everyone?  why are these inspectors telling us what we can and can not do without an explanation ?  PLEASE Don’t say because it’s code.


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## Rick18071 (Mar 25, 2021)

Jboren said:


> I understand, but not sure why it matters?


IBC is for commercial buildings. IRC is for houses.


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## klarenbeek (Mar 25, 2021)

Jenks said:


> This is so god damn ridiculous. What is wrong with everyone?  why are these inspectors telling us what we can and can not do without an explanation ?  PLEASE Don’t say because it’s code.


Like most on this thread have been saying, ask for a code section.  If the inspector can't provide it, he can't enforce it. 

BTW this is coming from one of "these inspectors".  I have no problem giving a code section when asked for it, or an explanation if it is an interpretation thing.  I use it as an educational opportunity when these situations arise, including for myself when I've made the mistake or when someone else gives a different interpretation.


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## rktect 1 (Mar 25, 2021)

Ever seen a breezeway?


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## ADAguy (Mar 25, 2021)

Does he have a super? If so ask him/her.


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