# Garage / House wall



## Alan (Dec 7, 2010)

Can an electrical panel be installed in a garage/house wall opening to the garage side? Doesn't this create a fire breach?  I was told it is a fire breach - can't verify it in the code book(s).  Any advice is helpful.

Thanks!

~A


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## pwood (Dec 7, 2010)

alan,

  go for it ! it is not a true firewall that limits openings or requires opening protection.


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 7, 2010)

Agree go for it

Doors

R309.1 Opening protection.

Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted. Other openings between the garage and residence shall be equipped with solid wood doors not less than 13/8 inches (35 mm) in thickness, solid or honeycomb core steel doors not less than 13/8 inches (35 mm) thick, or 20-minute fire-rated doors.

Ducts

R309.1.1 Duct penetration.

Ducts in the garage and ducts penetrating the walls or ceilings separating the dwelling from the garage shall be constructed of a minimum No. 26 gage (0.48 mm) sheet steel or other approved material and shall have no openings into the garage.

and everything else

R309.1.2 Other penetrations.

Penetrations through the separation required in Section R309.2 shall be protected by filling the opening around the penetrating item with approved material to resist the free passage of flame and products of combustion.


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## brudgers (Dec 7, 2010)

pwood said:
			
		

> alan,  go for it ! it is not a true firewall that limits openings or requires opening protection.


Not only is it not a *firewall* it's not even a rated wall.


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## ewenme (Dec 7, 2010)

Depends on whether or not your jurisdiction modifies the code requirements. The 1997 UBC allowed a 'modified one-hour wall separating the house/garage' and required 5/8" Type X drywall, with self-closing tight-fitting door. We have kept those provisions throughout the I-code adoptions and will continue to do that. Sometimes old is better! We have a Building Code Advisory Committee made up of volunteers from the trades and suppliers, and they have voted unanimously to keep those provisions since the 2000 I-codes came to town. The City Council takes their recommendations seriously. I wonder how many other jurisdictions have such a review committee and citizen involvement in their code adoptions.


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## fatboy (Dec 7, 2010)

We have also ewenme (yes we have an advisory board also), but we only substitued 5/8 for 1/2 in the Table. So nothing to prevent the panel from be installed in the wall.


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## KZQuixote (Dec 7, 2010)

Please Delete

Thanks

Bill


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## Daddy-0- (Dec 9, 2010)

Just don't put it over the steps or you will likely violate the provisions for clear working space....and welcome to the forum.


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## TimNY (Dec 10, 2010)

What about thermal envelope?


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## peach (Dec 11, 2010)

you darn energy nuts..  

everything else... refers to a thru penetration, not membrane penetration.. I don't know that I'd put a panel in the garage, particularly if the main disconnect is in the panel and not on the outside of the structure.. but that's just me... not a violation


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## fatboy (Dec 12, 2010)

We have a local amendment that requires the main disconnect be on the exterior of the structure. So, we see the panel on the garage/house wall frequently.  I don't get out in the field much, had not thought of the thermal envelope. I know the guys are looking at vent pipes and such, will have to check on the panel issue though.


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## Codegeek (Sep 29, 2011)

I have a situation where a homeowner is renovating a house built back in the 50's.  On one side of the wall separating the garage from the dwelling unit, the homeowner has installed 5/8 inch Type X sheetrock (living side).  The garage side of the wall has plywood to which he has attached an electrical panel.  The jurisdiction that his home is in has asked him to put sheetrock on top of the plywood then fire tape the joint between the sheetrock and the electrical panel.

I think he's met the intent of the code with the type x on the interior, at least for a house of this age.  Thought on this?


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## imhotep (Sep 29, 2011)

Codegeek said:
			
		

> I have a situation where a homeowner is renovating a house built back in the 50's.  On one side of the wall separating the garage from the dwelling unit, the homeowner has installed 5/8 inch Type X sheetrock (living side).  The garage side of the wall has plywood to which he has attached an electrical panel.  The jurisdiction that his home is in has asked him to put sheetrock on top of the plywood then fire tape the joint between the sheetrock and the electrical panel. I think he's met the intent of the code with the type x on the interior, at least for a house of this age.  Thought on this?


The fire risk is from the garage to the dwelling.  As a homeowner I would want to have the FR membrane on the garage side.  Per IBC 721.6 plywood is given 5 to 15 minutes.  IRC 302.6 requires 1/2" gypsum or equivalent.  721.6 gives 25 minutes to 1/2" gypsum.  If IRC 302.6 applies then the proposed section does not comply.  The time rating is from the garage side.


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## Codegeek (Sep 29, 2011)

imhotep said:
			
		

> The fire risk is from the garage to the dwelling.  As a homeowner I would want to have the FR membrane on the garage side.  Per IBC 721.6 plywood is given 5 to 15 minutes.  IRC 302.6 requires 1/2" gypsum or equivalent.  721.6 gives 25 minutes to 1/2" gypsum.  If IRC 302.6 applies then the proposed section does not comply.  The time rating is from the garage side.


I understand that.  This is an existing condition for which he's remodeling the interior of the house.  He's putting in an electrical panel in the garage and in order to provide a base for the electrical panel, he removed a section of the existing garage finish wall and installed plywood.  The entire garage does not comply with today's code, but it complied with what was in effect at the time the house was built, or one has to assume as much given the age of the house.

He's at least provided an increased level of protection, albeit on the interior of the garage.


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## mtlogcabin (Sep 29, 2011)

1/2-inch gypsum wallboard   15 min

1/2-inch Type X gypsum wallboard   25 min

TABLE R302.6 Not less than 1/2-inch gypsum board or equivalent applied to the garage side

15 minutes is all it has to be

 19/32-inch wood structural panel bonded with exterior glue is a 15 minute equivalent. IBC 721.6


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## imhotep (Sep 29, 2011)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> 1/2-inch gypsum wallboard   15 min1/2-inch Type X gypsum wallboard   25 min
> 
> TABLE R302.6 Not less than 1/2-inch gypsum board or equivalent applied to the garage side
> 
> ...


Nice catch MT


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## Codegeek (Sep 29, 2011)

Thank you mt and imhotep!


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## georgia plans exam (Sep 30, 2011)

Codegeek,

If the permit is for an interior remodel, not including the garage, and all he is doing is installing a panel on the garage side, I would not require the garage side to comply with today's code.

GPE


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## Pcinspector1 (Oct 1, 2011)

Not considered a firewall, but panel box should be tight fitting. The distance to the utility meter may come into play. Some AHJ only allow the SE to be 10' or less from the panel to the utility meter without a disconnect. Adding conduit or a disconnect may make a person reconsider the placement of the panel in the garage/house wall due to cost?

pc1


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## RJJ (Oct 2, 2011)

Agree with MT! If the install meets that requirement then let it go. Poor code on the 1/2" separation.


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## GCtony (Oct 3, 2011)

For a summer job back in high school, (the 80's) I worked as a helper for an electrician that was also an electrical inspector doing large high end homes. When panels were on the garage/house wall we always surface mounted the panel over a sheet of 5/8 rock.  We piped everything from the panel up to the structure above. (no exposed NM)Sometimes we would come back for the finish and we would find that a chase was built around the panel and pipe.  The only time we recessed panels is when they were in interior partitions.  An issue you may have today with the surface mount and pipe is some electrical inspectors wont let you strip off the outer jacket of the "romex" and let you run it that short distance in pipe. Even though I understand the insulation on the romex wires are THHN/THWN, they are not labled, therfore not rated to be installed in pipe. (I'm not smart enough to keep up with the NEC, please correct me if I'm misinformed)


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