# Garage common wall penetrations



## Daddy-0- (Mar 10, 2012)

New construction house has an attached garage with finished space above. The first floor 1/2 bath rear wall backs up to the garage common wall. Customer wanted a pedestal sink but it needed an AAV for the plumbing vent. They installed the AAV high in the wall and put in the plastic grill on the GARAGE side of the wall. It is not a penetration per se because it only penetrates the garage side drywall not the bathroom side. I have issues with the fact that the AAV will draw gas fumes and CO2 and whatever else into the building envelope even though theoretically the plumbing system is a closed loop. I am also concerned with the fact that a fire in the garage would melt the exposed PVC pipe and get into the wall. Can I enforce this. Need a code section. Thanks


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## ICE (Mar 10, 2012)

"*R302.4.2 Membrane penetrations. *Membrane penetrations shall comply with Section R302.4.1. Where walls are required to have a fire-resistance rating, recessed fixtures shall be installed so that the required fire-resistance rating will not be reduced."

The condition is not a through penetration but is a membrane penetration.  The statement, "Where walls are required to have a fire-resistance rating," indicates that a membrane can be present whether there is a rated wall or not and I would be comfortable referring to the required drywall as a membrane.

This may be a stretch but it would be a bigger stretch to think that there are no requirements.

As an aside, we do not allow AAVs and please don't ask me why.


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## Daddy-0- (Mar 10, 2012)

ICE......why? LOL


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## ICE (Mar 10, 2012)

I guess please doesn't count for much around here......the answer Shirley, would get Heckle and Jeckle stirred up.


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## Daddy-0- (Mar 22, 2012)

And please don't call me Shirley!!


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## mark handler (Mar 22, 2012)

Can the move the AAV into the attic?


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## KZQuixote (Mar 22, 2012)

ICE said:
			
		

> "*R302.4.2 Membrane penetrations. *Membrane penetrations shall comply with Section R302.4.1. Where walls are required to have a fire-resistance rating, recessed fixtures shall be installed so that the required fire-resistance rating will not be reduced."The condition is not a through penetration but is a membrane penetration.  The statement, "Where walls are required to have a fire-resistance rating," indicates that a membrane can be present whether there is a rated wall or not and I would be comfortable referring to the required drywall as a membrane.
> 
> This may be a stretch but it would be a bigger stretch to think that there are no requirements.
> 
> As an aside, we do not allow AAVs and please don't ask me why.


Hey Ice,

Don't see no fire resistance ratings required. Course I have yet to receive my personally autographed copy of the Intergalactic Ice Code. Can you give me the tracking number?

Foggy


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## ICE (Mar 22, 2012)

KZQuixote said:
			
		

> Hey Ice, Don't see no fire resistance ratings required. Course I have yet to receive my personally autographed copy of the Intergalactic Ice Code. Can you give me the tracking number?
> 
> Foggy


Is there a reason that you feel compelled to insult me?


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## KZQuixote (Mar 22, 2012)

ICE said:
			
		

> Is there a reason that you feel compelled to insult me?


It's not my intention to insult you. I'm wondering if you can quote a code section that specifies a fire resistance rating for the wall between a residence and an attached garage.

Foggy


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## Francis Vineyard (Mar 23, 2012)

As a reminder it is a fire separation not a fire-resistant rated assembly.

The code sections that apply would also include chapter 11 and as applicable in the manner of prescriptive or performance allowance for minimum R-value or lack thereof in these type of spaces.

JMO it would simplify to bring the AAV out of the wall as full penetration into the garage. I doubt this would subject the AAV to freezing per manufacturer's installation.

*R302.5.3 Other penetrations. *Penetrations through the separation required in :Next('./icod_irc_2009_3_sec002_par017.htm')'>Section R302.6 shall be protected as required by :Next('./icod_irc_2009_3_sec002_par031.htm')'>Section R302.11, Item 4.



4. At openings around vents, pipes, ducts, cables and wires at ceiling and floor level, with an _approved_ material to resist the free passage of flame and products of combustion. The material filling this annular space shall not be required to meet the ASTM E 136 requirements.



*N1102.4.1 Building thermal envelope. *The _building thermal envelope _shall be durably sealed to limit infiltration. The sealing methods between dissimilar materials shall allow for differential expansion and contraction. The following shall be caulked, gasketed, weatherstripped or otherwise sealed with an air barrier material, suitable film or solid material.



7. Walls and ceilings separating the garage from _conditioned spaces._

_Francis_


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## steveray (Mar 23, 2012)

If a duct is required to be 26 ga and no openings, how can you allow an open plastic vent?......The "intent" is a drywall barrier as continuous as possible....if there were a few plastic penetrations and the "professional" used some intumescent product within the scope of it's listing, would I have any heartburn with it?.... No, but to say that they can go ahead and perforate that membrane however they want is just asinine...IMHO

I would have brought it over into a closet...or maybe the attic.....

ICE...Mass. does not allow AAV's either....

R309.1.1 Duct penetration.

Ducts in the garage and ducts penetrating the walls or ceilings separating the dwelling from the garage shall be constructed of a minimum No. 26 gage (0.48 mm) sheet steel or other approved material and shall have no openings into the garage.


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## Francis Vineyard (Mar 23, 2012)

steveray my opinion is ducts have the inherited risk in the transport of environmental air through direct openings to the interior whereas PVC used for plumbing and mechanical have applications to seal of noxious gases and outside air infiltrations.

The IRC is different when it comes to dwelling/garage separations than the IBC.  

Francis


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## Big Mac (Mar 23, 2012)

R302 = Fire-resistant Construction

R302.5 (Still under fire-resistant construction) Dwelling Garage Opening/penetration protection.

R302.6 = Dwelling/garage fire-separation (still under the section heading of Fire-resistant construction).

I agree it is a membrane penetration of a required fire-separation.


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## Dennis (Mar 23, 2012)

This issue has come up in reference to panels mounted in the common wall.  Some felt that a panel box would have to be rated to be used in the wall.  Not sure it was ever resolved but it is often done.


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 23, 2012)

Although this path takes you to the fire blocking requirements we interpet it to require an intumesenct collar be installed aroud penetrating plastic pipes.

Not 100% sure we are correct but perfer to err on the safety side.

R302.5.3 Other penetrations.

Penetrations through the separation required in Section R309.2 shall be protected as required by Section R302.11, Item 4.

4. At openings around vents, pipes, ducts, cables and wires at ceiling and floor level, with an approved material to resist the free passage of flame and products of combustion. The material filling this annular space shall not be required to meet the ASTM E 136 requirements.


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## Paul Sweet (Mar 23, 2012)

KZQuixote, I believe rated garage walls are a California modification, not IIC.


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 23, 2012)

ICE

The UPC does not permit AAV because for what ever reason IAPMO has not approved them.


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## steveray (Mar 23, 2012)

Dennis said:
			
		

> This issue has come up in reference to panels mounted in the common wall.  Some felt that a panel box would have to be rated to be used in the wall.  Not sure it was ever resolved but it is often done.


Drywall behind the panel......


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## KZQuixote (Mar 23, 2012)

Paul Sweet said:
			
		

> KZQuixote, I believe rated garage walls are a California modification, not IIC.


Hi Paul,

 The California Residential Code  Title 24 Part 2.5 Section 302.6 Dwelling/Garage and or carport fire separation. Refers to Table R302.6

*Separation.* *Material.*

From the residence and attics.                       1/2" gypsum board garage side

From all habitable rooms above the garage.       5/8" Type V gypsum board

Structures supporting floor ceiling assemblies.   1/2" gypsum board

Garages located less that 3' from a dwelling.      1/2" gypsum board.

It's a little different format but identical requirements to ICC.

Section 302.5.3 Other Penetrations. Sends you to R302.11 FireBlocking, Item 4.

Which states:

At openings around vents, pipes, ducts, cables and wires at ceiling and floor level, with an approved material to resist the free passage of flame and products of combustion. The material filling the annular space shall not be required to meet ASTM E 136 requirements.

Bill


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## Dennis (Mar 23, 2012)

steveray said:
			
		

> Drywall behind the panel......


Yes, on one side.


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## north star (Mar 23, 2012)

*=*

Daddy-O,

FWIW, me thinks that ICE is simply using a play on words, using

" Shirley " instead of saying " surely ".......I could be wrong, but

I do not perceive any malice or slighting in his use of the term

"Shirley".........Hope that you are not offended! 

*=*


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