# What are the Results!? New Homes Built in last 10 years.



## Uncle Bob (Jan 26, 2010)

Think the codes have improved the quality of homes over the past 10 years?

If you do; please, please have the courage to listen to those who bought them;

(scroll down and read the left and right side for links and reports from homeowners)

http://www.exposingnewhomebuilders.com/ ... index.html

The above website has many links to numerous other websites; including HADD and HOBB; that were not established by professional corporations; but, by despairing homeowners who have had their lives ruined, their families health jeopardized;  and, either have lost or are losing their "new built" homes because the homes are making their family sick, or falling down around them.

And the list of newly built, defective homes keeps growing,

Uncle Bob


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## Mule (Jan 26, 2010)

Re: What are the Results!? New Homes Built in last 10 years.

You know, this kind of stuff really gets me bumfuzzled! I feel like we, as an inspection department, do a pretty darn good job and to see homes out there like this makes me wonder what kind of inspectors are out there.

Is it really the codes that are at fault? I don't think so. I think it's the lack of knowledge of inspectors. But how do we fix that?

You've got administrators running cities that don't know a thing about construction and then they hire someone who may be good at one trade and expect them to inspect all trades. Or as they may even hire old Bubba because they owe someone a favor.

I think it's time to educate the council members, administrators and people that actually make the decisions for AHJ's so they better understand the urgency of the building department and what it means to the public. That way maybe, just maybe the elected officials understand exactly what's going on and try to "better" the department by providing a budget that will allow the building department to become a real department and not the one at the bottom of the list.

I hope I got my point across because I'm just a country boy that grew up in the construction industry and don't know how to put a lot of those big words together to make it sound like I'm smart!


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## cda (Jan 26, 2010)

Re: What are the Results!? New Homes Built in last 10 years.

well remember talking minimum standards to keep the house up

and, if a board is nailed together even though it does not look pertty it may still meet code

and the old arguement about the rafter staple plates

sounds like the codes may need a little tweek, put then you get back to oh it is going to cost ane extra BAgillion dollars to add a few more nails in each house.


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## Min&Max (Jan 26, 2010)

Re: What are the Results!? New Homes Built in last 10 years.

It never ceases to amaze me how people continue to buy tract homes and then be utterly shocked when problems with the home arise. This stuff has been going on for decades--post WWII for sure. Same game just different players and more attorneys looking to make a buck.


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## conarb (Jan 26, 2010)

Re: What are the Results!? New Homes Built in last 10 years.



			
				Yahoo said:
			
		

> Gaping crevices, some 15 feet deep, cut across several yards as dirt cascaded into a towering stone retaining wall that nearly split in half. Fences crumpled like accordions as crews packed dirt under one home and around its exterior after part of its foundation was exposed.
> 
> One soil expert said the cause of the landslide appeared to be the result of poor retaining wall design, and a city official said the nearly 1,000-foot-long wall in the upper-middle class neighborhood of sprawling two-story homes was built without a permit.
> 
> ...


¹ http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_soil_shift_evacuation


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## mjesse (Jan 26, 2010)

Re: What are the Results!? New Homes Built in last 10 years.

It's not the codes, it's the market.

Greedy consumers demanding to have a bigger house than their neighbor, with flashier finishes.

That want it all, and they want it CHEAP, (which is still more than they can afford but the lenders make the loan and we all lose) I digress

Big corporate builders move in and provide a flashy product with the highest profit margin possible, resulting in an "inferior" product.

Greedy buyers expect too much

Greedy builders expect too much

Greedy bankers lent to them both

The code officials watch it all go down while upholding the "minimum" codes

It's chicken or the egg.

and the "shocked and outraged" buyers want someone to blame besides themselves.

Whew! rant over.

mj


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## High Desert (Jan 26, 2010)

Re: What are the Results!? New Homes Built in last 10 years.

As a code official, we really only visually inspect a small portion of the code. How many inspectors actually look at roof nailing, roofing application, flashing, siding installation, etc. If a homebuilder actually built a house with the intent on meeting every provision of the code, you would end up with a pretty darn good home. The code has to have a minimum standard or else you would end of with a performance based code. If you want to talk about watered down codes, just look at the first CABO codes. Oregon first adopted the CABO code on May 1, 1983 but it wasn't until April 1, 1990 that we actually used it as a result of pressure by the state HBA. We managed to make it a more adequate code after a few code cycles, but the first editions were woefully lacking. the minimum standards back then were, in some cases, far less than the IRC is today.

Home buyers are just expecting more and are more nitpicky than they used to be, and attorney's and lawsuits aren't helping the matter. It used to be a great accomplishment just to own your own home and be thankful that you did. Now the average home buyer is expecting a perfect home without any defects, which in my opinion, is an unrealistic expectation.


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## conarb (Jan 26, 2010)

Re: What are the Results!? New Homes Built in last 10 years.

High:

Was Oregon on the UBC prior to 1983 and CABO adopted as a residential code?  During the 1983 to 1990 time frame did you enforce the UBC on residential?


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## High Desert (Jan 26, 2010)

Re: What are the Results!? New Homes Built in last 10 years.

conarb: Yes, we used the UBC prior to it and the UBC from 1983 to 1990.


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## RJJ (Jan 26, 2010)

Re: What are the Results!? New Homes Built in last 10 years.

There exists many issues at the base of this thread. It ticks me off when I see and hear of some of the issues out across the country. When I was building homes it was not possible to watch every nail or block. Especially when you have 3 or 4 crews running at one time in different places. If you have pride in your work you try. At the end of the day you stand behind what you sold. The game has changed. People to day don't even get a side walk guarantee. (ie) meaning when you hit the black top your on your own.

As caring professional inspectors most all here do the best they can do. Will you see everything? No. But we try. However, there are many just putting in time. Not doing proper inspections, with limited knowledge of the codes or construction. That stinks. There is a great difference between being certified and QUALIFIED!


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## mjesse (Jan 26, 2010)

Re: What are the Results!? New Homes Built in last 10 years.

It's a complex issue for sure, and I've dealt with many of the outraged homeowners myself.

It angers me as well, but I don't know how to change it. The auto industry is a fine example of legislators forcing manufacturers to continually improve products, seatbelts, airbags, etc. etc. Yet some cars are still crap.

Folks are buying Yugos, advertised as Bentleys, and priced like Cadillacs. And they may have grounds when they complain about the quality.

Caveat Emptor--Let the buyer beware. Buyers can be better educated, but they still seem to want "more" for "less"

mj


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## FredK (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: What are the Results!? New Homes Built in last 10 years.

Minimum is minimum.  Leave out one nail will it fall down?

I can't see everything on the job and there is no one willing yet to have privately hire me on the job site 24/7 to check every little detail.  Seen custom homes with more problems than the tract ones.  Gone into tract homes for vent pipe inspection and see water running everywhere yet no plumber/super around.

Until the few get a louder vice I don't see anything changing.  More places are getting codes adopted and the change is going to come.  Think the earthquake showed what happens without even a minimum code in place.

Here in AZ last week it snowed more in the upper elevations and guess what roof damage carports down, etc....  some never get inspected.

Just my 2 cents.


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## JBI (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: What are the Results!? New Homes Built in last 10 years.

In this area the problems are not as severe. I have seen and heard of some problems, but for the most part the builders and the inspectors are pretty good. The homes are not killing their occupants in large numbers (or even small numbers    ). Many of these problems could be solved, but there are properties that are just too wet and provide the wrong climate for buildings. I don't know what to do about all the off-gassing. If I ever build another house, it'll be stone and/or log.


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## inspecterbake (Jan 28, 2010)

Re: What are the Results!? New Homes Built in last 10 years.

There are builders and then there's carpenters. If you want a home you hire a carpenter,plumber,electrican. If you want a house you hire a builder who uses subs that work for next to nothing so they can say they own there own buisiness. Today everything has to be done yesterday so instead of taking pride in your work you see if you can do it faster,cheaper and better than the next lowest guy. I have a builder that charges 50 an hour that brags about his work and I have a carpenter that charges 25 an hour that stands behind his work. The average home owner only hears what they want to not what they need to.

TGIF  almost :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:


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## mjesse (Jan 28, 2010)

Re: What are the Results!? New Homes Built in last 10 years.



			
				inspecterbake said:
			
		

> There are builders and then there's carpenters. If you want a home you hire a carpenter,plumber,electrican. If you want a house you hire a builder who uses subs that work for next to nothing so they can say they own there own buisiness. Today everything has to be done yesterday so instead of taking pride in your work you see if you can do it faster,cheaper and better than the next lowest guy. I have a builder that charges 50 an hour that brags about his work and I have a carpenter that charges 25 an hour that stands behind his work. The average home owner only hears what they want to not what they need to. TGIF  almost :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:


well said


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## texas transplant (Jan 28, 2010)

Re: What are the Results!? New Homes Built in last 10 years.

Agree with the posts above.

Another problem I think is a new product comes out and we don't know what the down side is of that product for 5 years, 10 years or more.   How many products off gas toxic fumes into the home, etc.   How many are the greatest new structural items and then we see that after 20 years they start falling apart.

Then we have the new products like the EIFIS systems, not really a bad product if installed according to the manufacturers instructions, but entire neighborhoods around the country had installers cutting corners and filling wall cavities up with water, then causing mold etc.

Not against progress, but it is hard to know how some of these products are going to act in real installations.

And some of these products would be ok, but the installers have no training or don't care about the proper way to handle the products.   You continually run into framers that treat a bundle of trusses just like they do a bundle of 2 by 4's,  just cut them loose and get them up. So what if your handling pulls out the nail plates, just knock them back in.  Or the truck driver that just backs up and dumps in order to get the trusses of his truck and you drive up just in time to see the 4 or 5 foot bow in the trusses just before they hit the ground with a thud, then you have to listen to the trucker, his boss, the contractor etc. complain when you tell them to load them up, get a new bunch and try again.

Sorry to rant a little, just drove up to see the unloading of some trusses this morning and told them to get some new ones and try again.  (By the way they only broke about 40% of them and the builder said no problem he knows how to fix them)


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## Uncle Bob (Jan 28, 2010)

Re: What are the Results!? New Homes Built in last 10 years.

TTP,

And, the choir said "Amen";

And then the inspector comes along; who has absolutely zero training, and, doesn't even look at the trusses on the framing inspection.

I like to drive around new residential construction sites; and observe how different AHJs and builders are keeping up with the codes.  On more than one occasion; I've had the opportunity to meet an inspector on site; and ask them why the the bottom of the truss was toenailed to the non-loadbearing walls.  Most answered by saying "They have to do that to keep the sheetrock from seperating at the ceiling."

One inspector; who gave me the above answer; asked me why I was interested; and I told him that I saw there was an opening for a Building inspector and was considering applying.  He told me to get more training before I put in for a job in his department.

I went back to my truck and looked for a bottle of Old Grandad; and then remembered that I don't drink.   

Uncle Bob


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## RJJ (Jan 28, 2010)

Re: What are the Results!? New Homes Built in last 10 years.

UB: You funny guy! :lol:

You should have told him you had been hired as a special inspector. Got his name and badge # and watched him crap his pants on the way back to the office. :lol:  :lol:


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## High Desert (Jan 28, 2010)

Re: What are the Results!? New Homes Built in last 10 years.

When I first started in codes in 1985, I had an older inspector tell me he could just look at a beam and tell whether it would support the load on it or not. My response was, "all those engineers are going to be pissed when they find out they wasted all their money on engineering school." He didn't get it........and he didn't get the basics of construction either.

I agree with the comments on the newer materilas in construction and not knowing the longevity or the hazards associated with them. BTW, Oregon doesn't allow EIFS systems on anything except concrete, masonry and existing systems because of the problems we've had with it.

http://www.cbs.state.or.us/bcd/whatsnew ... notice.pdf


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## texas transplant (Jan 29, 2010)

Re: What are the Results!? New Homes Built in last 10 years.

UB,

How in the world did you survive in the inspection business so long and not drink.   Since I don't like pills, I self medicate with bourbon on a regular basis.   :lol:

Amen again on the inspector with no clue.  Cities train policemen, firemen, etc. but sometimes think anybody can inspector (its not that hard you know   :shock: .)  Last city I was at would spend 15 to 20 thousand a year to send the recreation department to training (four people) and the building department got 1500 to keep the certs up for 5 people.   I guess its priorities.

It all goes to a saying you use to use in your signature line "Inspectors the less you know about your job the easier it is"


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