# Reclaimed water for hydrants, etc.....



## beach (Jan 11, 2011)

We have inherited a methane gas recovery plant, the site is situated on a hill surrounded by 10' walls and is accessed by a single lane road. The plant wants to supply the hydrants and cooling tower with reclaimed water.... we really don't want to contaminate our apparatus with reclaimed water but we're getting pressure from above to allow it, upon visiting the site it was found that the site is already using potable water for the cooliing tower as shown in the "current configuration" single line, their proposed configuration is shown also, the configurations show only four hydrants where there are actually six, from the attached photo you can see the location of the hydrants I'm not sure of the required fire flow, but realistically, we would never send any apparatus to hydrants #3, #4, #5, and number 6 to be boxed in...... The question asked is "Can hydrants #3,#4, #5, and number 6 be safely removed from the loop?" (The water dept. is working with us on the proposals....)

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## mark handler (Jan 11, 2011)

You may not send in the apparatus, but would your guys carry in hoses to any of those hydrants?


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## beach (Jan 11, 2011)

Not without a pumper


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## AegisFPE (Jan 11, 2011)

Does not look like the SW corner can be accessed within 400' of the first hydrant if measuring around the buildings (ref. IFC 5.07.5.1).

While IFC 901.8 does allow the FCO to approve the removal of a hydrant, it would seem prudent to only make such approval where other code provisions were not compromised; in the absence of approved alternative compliance per IFC 104.9.


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## AegisFPE (Jan 11, 2011)

Does not look like the SW corner can be accessed within 400' of the first hydrant if measuring around the buildings (ref. IFC 5.07.5.1).

While IFC 901.8 does allow the FCO to approve the removal of a hydrant, it would seem prudent to only make such approval where other code provisions were not compromised; in the absence of approved alternative compliance per IFC 104.9.


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## Insurance Engineer (Jan 11, 2011)

beach said:
			
		

> Not without a pumper


Depending on the size of the fire pump connected to the water supply, it may the same size or bigger then the FD pumper, why not use it? Also why remove the hydrants, theyt provide the FD options if one is not operational etc.more is always better!


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## beach (Jan 11, 2011)

Does anyone see any problems using reclaimed (Grey) water besides being out of service while having to decontaminate after use? This is a wildland area, if we connected to grey water at the plant, we wouldn't be able to reconnect to a potable hydrant nearby without decontaminating.


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## beach (Jan 11, 2011)

> Originally Posted by *beach*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you referring to a proposed greywater booster pump? I don't believe there is an existing fire pump on the existing potable system.


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## peach (Jan 11, 2011)

beach said:
			
		

> Does anyone see any problems using reclaimed (Grey) water besides being out of service while having to decontaminate after use? This is a wildland area, if we connected to grey water at the plant, we wouldn't be able to reconnect to a potable hydrant nearby without decontaminating.


that would be my point... actually more along the line of protecting the whole rest of the potable water system.  Grey water isn't an unlimited source.. even with industrial occupancies.


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## Insurance Engineer (Jan 11, 2011)

If the fire protection system is going to supply fire hydrants then it must conform to NFPA .i.e. the pump must meet NFPA 20, the underground and hydrants NFPA 24, the care an maintenance of all equipment to NFPA 25, etc. IF you are saying nothing meets NFPA then you have a bigger problem then gray water


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## beach (Jan 11, 2011)

Wouldn't you use a dry standpipe in those areas not accessible by a pumper and pump from an accessible hydrant to supply the standpipe? The other question is what is the min. required fireflow for the plant? This area is pretty new to me.......


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## Insurance Engineer (Jan 12, 2011)

Beach,

See this thread for a lot of info on water supplies

http://www.inspectpa.com/phpbb/showthread.php?3729-bucket-test-for-13-system

I think you need to get more info for us to help you. This is what I would ask, I am sure others will have other suggestions.

1. Do they have a UL or FM fire pump? If so what is the rating, a placard should be on the pump to give you the info. Look for max psi  (this is churn), 100% rating psi @ gpm (ie 1000 gpm @ 125 psi) and 150% rating psi.

2. Do they have any flow tests conducted on the fire pump? If so get a copy for the last 3 years. Find out how often they are running the fire pump, should be weekly.

3. What is the size of the underground water main? Look at the discharge pipe on the fire pump.

4. Have they done any flow tests on the fire hydrant system? If so get the results, if not get them to do the test. If they have sectional control valves on the loop, have them do a test with all valve open and then with only 1 side of the loop open. This will give you worse case and best case on the water supply. Let us know what the static psi, residual psi and gpm flowed. Have they maintained the system as per NFPA 25, if not make them do it. A nonworking hydrant is no good to anyone.

5. How many gallons of gray water does the water supply have?

6. Do any of the building have fire proteciton or detection? If so are they connected to a central station?

This place maybe new to you, BUT someone has to insure this facility and they will or have asked for this info.  Just because it is in a rural area does not mean the fire proteciton is not good. We insure stuff like this all the time. I am not saying they are all bad, just you need to ask more questions when the facility is not connected to public water supply.


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## beach (Jan 12, 2011)

Thanks IE, I'll check it out...... I haven't been on site yet, this just came up.


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