# Permit Types Issued per Project



## jar546 (Jul 7, 2020)

How do you issue permits for projects?  Let's use and example of a residential renovation project that has a GC, EC, Plumber & Mech contractor.

Do you:
1) Issue one permit and have the subs registered for that permit.
i.e. 20-0001

2) Issue a permit for the GC and separate permits for the Subs?
20-0001B
20-0001E
20-0001P
20-0001M

3) Some other procedure?


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## ICE (Jul 7, 2020)

Depending on the scope, for residential we require a building permit, electrical permit, plumbing permit, mechanical permit, sewer permit, grading permit, swimming pool/spa permit.

A general contractor can take out all of them.  An owner that resides there can take out all of them.  Specialty contractors can take out single permits within their specialty.

A general contractor is restricted to a building permit and any others or no building permit and two or more others that must be unrelated.  For example a general can take out a building permit for a patio cover and an electrical permit for a paddle fan.  Or the general contractor could take out a mechanical permit for a wall furnace and an electrical permit for a a service upgrade.  

This system results in bogus permit such as an electrical permit for a service upgrade and a plumbing permit to replace a hose bib.  The usual favorite was a re-roof and a installing a GFCI receptacle in the kitchen.  The contractors would point to a GFCI receptacle at the kitchen counter like they installed it.  Some would say, "Wouldn't you know, they already had one."  But the code changed and now that bogus receptacle requires AFCI so they don't do that anymore.

I had a general contractor take out a specialty permit for a re-roof and he didn't pay attention when he filled out the plumbing permit.  He checked the box for a water closet.  So at the frinal inspecdtion I rang the door bell and asked the elderly lady if I could see the toilet.  It was an ancient pink toilet.  I said, "Well Maam this is an old toilet." She said, "You can't use an old toilet?"  That's a job the roofer will remember till the day he dies.


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## TheCommish (Jul 7, 2020)

Building permit and associated submittals; structural, HVAC, energy code,   fire alarm, fire sprinkler. Separate trade permit for electrical, plumbing, gas, separate permit for sewage onsite or municipal, well or water hook up, possibly a driveway permit.

Oh, and separate permit for  propane storage, hazardous process permitting, elevator permit, porta-potty permit


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## ICE (Jul 7, 2020)

TheCommish said:


> Building permit and associated submittals; structural, HVAC, energy code,   fire alarm, fire sprinkler. Separate trade permit for electrical, plumbing, gas, separate permit for sewage onsite or municipal, well or water hook up, possibly a driveway permit.
> 
> Oh, and separate permit for  propane storage, hazardous process permitting, elevator permit, porta-potty permit


You make them get a permit for a Blue Room?


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## tmurray (Jul 8, 2020)

We do multiple permits here too, but we align the work flow so that the applicant makes one submittal and receives all their permits at the end. The building inspection department manages all the permits that are reviewed by other departments (engineering, utilities, etc.). A little bit of extra work on our end up front, but a lot less work overall checking to see what permits have been issued, where they are in the process, etc.

We hear a lot of complaints when they work in another jurisdiction and has to run around and secure all the different permits themselves.


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## TheCommish (Jul 8, 2020)

ICE said:


> You make them get a permit for a Blue Room?


Board of health does


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## TheCommish (Jul 8, 2020)

tmurray said:


> We do multiple permits here too, but we align the work flow so that the applicant makes one submittal and receives all their permits at the end. The building inspection department manages all the permits that are reviewed by other departments (engineering, utilities, etc.). A little bit of extra work on our end up front, but a lot less work overall checking to see what permits have been issued, where they are in the process, etc.
> 
> We hear a lot of complaints when they work in another jurisdiction and has to run around and secure all the different permits themselves.



Somewhat similar here, electrical, plumbing/gas are separate trades with separate commonwealth agency that licenses each and promulgate regulations outside of the building code. The first thing  the BBRS (building code) promulgation agency has to do for adoption of ICC code is strike out almost all electrical, plumbing/gas and refer to an separate regulations.


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## JCraver (Jul 8, 2020)

On a remodel, we issue one permit.  The owner or GC is responsible for whatever subs there are, and I don't even really care who they are unless they're a state-licensed plumber or roofer (no other state trade licenses here for residential).  The owner or GC is responsible for calling for inspections, or for making sure their subs do.  If you're remodeling a kitchen, or a whole house, it's one permit.  More than one permit for a single job makes no sense to me at all.

If you're doing an individual task and not a whole remodel like putting in a driveway, replacing the electrical service, re-roof, new water service or re-plumbing, etc., we issue individual permits per task.


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## steveray (Jul 8, 2020)

We do separate permits for all trades, just because it's the way we have always done it.....Doesn't matter for much other than we can gear the individual applications to the work and maybe get info on the app so that we don't need plans....


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## Pcinspector1 (Jul 8, 2020)

Prefer one permit issued to the GC if cost valuation includes every aspect, MEP etc., subs work under the GC's permit. 

When the GC wants a TCO, the subs work is somewhat controlled by the GC. If they all have their own permits, the TCO  is difficult to issue. All trades are required to be licensed and have workers comp insurance. On large jobs we have a form that the Architect or Engineer fills out for Chapter 17 special inspections and who will preform these inspections.


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## Rick18071 (Jul 8, 2020)

I worked for a few different 3rd party inspection companies with many different jurisdictions and they were all different. I don't do anything outside of the building codes (sewer, roads, storm water retention,  etc). Usually houses are just one permit under the general contractor . Some places we had sub-permits (building, mechanical, plumbing, electrical). But a commercial job could have more than one permit ether under the general contractor or subs.. Like sometimes the fire alarm is included or on a different permit. Sometimes it depends if we get everything at one time or get it piecemeal. I think we make a little more money by issuing multiple permits rather then everything under one permit. Some large jobs with multiple buildings, parts of buildings, or tenant fit-outs have different permits so we can C. O. and they can start using the projects that are finished.

Trades are not required to be licensed in most jurisdictions in PA. It's funny that some near Philly only require the plumber to have license.

We don't usually need a permit for a upgrade or repair on a service because the state does not require a permit for houses unless they are doing something structural but the utility requires an inspection.

Right now I'm inspecting a warehouse that has 13 permits and may continue to need more:

Core and shell (building, mechanical, plumbing, electrical)
fire alarm
retaining wall
sound wall
core and shell fire sprinklers
guard shack (building, mechanical, plumbing, electrical)
tenant fit out phase 1 (building, mechanical, plumbing, electrical)
tenant fit out phase 2 (building, mechanical, plumbing, electrical)
Sprinklers for phase 1 and 2 tenant fit outs
High rack system
door lock card reader system
low voltage/data system
camera system


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## jar546 (Jul 8, 2020)

We will be changing the way we do things when we swap over to a new software program.  Since all trades must be licensed, a new permit that includes all trades will look like this:

*GC pulls the master permit for the "project"  ex:  PB20-0100
*Each trade pulls its own permit under the project.  ex: PE20-0100 or it might have a different number to keep count of permits for each trade ex: PE20-0022 BUT they are for the same parcel, same "project"

Right now we issue one permit number but take sub applications under the GC.  If the GC gets fired, all the subs are off the job too since they are permitted under the GC.  If the GC is replaced, they can bring in their own subs or agree to continue with the same subs.

Under the new system, if the GC is replaced by the owner, the subs are still solid with their own permits.

If the GC decides to include the price for all trades then the permit fee is on the main building permit and the subs have no valuation.  If they GC separates the fees then the individual trades pay their portion of the permit fee.


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## Pcinspector1 (Jul 8, 2020)

I have done it both ways, some issues arise with multiple permits, like who's doing the inspection scheduling and keeping up with the paperwork. I'd try to be flexible and not make it a hardcore policy one way or the other. i ware a few more hats than some of you so it works better for me to have less permits on the job. 

Nice to here the different ways. 

How does the BVD work with multiple permits on a job?


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## JCraver (Jul 8, 2020)

Who cares who the subs are?  "Is your plumbing / roofing license valid?  Yes?  Does the state website agree?  Good, then let's go look at what you did and see if it meets the code". 

I get on my kids all the time about making a task they're doing harder than it ought to be.  More than one permit for the same job is the same thing.


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## mark handler (Jul 8, 2020)

*This numbering system was set up long before I started working on the Dark side*

10020-0001   Business Occupancy Inspections
20020-0001   Truth in Sales Inspections
3          not used at this time
4          not used at this time
50020-0001   Building Permits
60020-0001   Plumbing Permits
70020-0001   Electrical Permits
80020-0001   Mechanical Permits
90020-0001   Civil Work

C-000001      Code Enforcement


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## ICE (Jul 8, 2020)

TheCommish said:


> Board of health does


There's nothing healthy about a Blue Room.

In my youth I was working on tracts at Colorado Springs.  We were making basements.  One day the foreman dropped an M80 down the vent while a worker was sitting on the seat.  Months later that workman ran over a blue room with the foreman sitting on the seat.  What a mess.


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## Darren Emery (Jul 9, 2020)

One permit for all work - building permit covers everything.    Much easier record keeping, IMO.


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## jj1289 (Jul 10, 2020)

In a jurisdiction I worked in for 10 years we issued a single permit for what was submitted.  If they submitted documentation for the MEP's, then the permit included them, but if it was going to be a deferred submittal or was not included, it would be a separate permit.

Got more important things to do than chase people.


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## Keystone (Jul 10, 2020)

I work with a 3rd Party. The bulk of our municipalities are set up to issue one permit but if a project prefers to have separate trade permits we will gladly accommodate.  

Personally it’s a bit more on the admin side but I prefer to see separate permits for each trade. It eliminates unknown element/layers of people in scheduling, inspection status reports, deferred submissions.


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## rktect 1 (Jul 10, 2020)

All in one permit.  Simple.


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