# Indoor Furniture Used on Outdoor Porches/Patios



## Hammer (Jul 7, 2017)

We frequently run into situations where people will take old indoor furniture (stuffed chairs, sofas, etc,) and place them outside on a front porch or patio (not enclosed, may have a roof over top). We routinely write violations for "rubbish" in these situations as well as "rodent harborage". We view these articles of furniture as made for indoor use and not designed for outdoor use. We have a person who is planning to appeal a violation for this scenario. Does anyone else have any experience with this type of situation? How do you handle this scenario?


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## mtlogcabin (Jul 7, 2017)

Hammer said:


> How do you handle this scenario?


With blinders. 
No violations in my book. As far as "rodent harborage" I find pack rats under the hood of my vehicles at least 4 times a year. Nope not going there at all.


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## cda (Jul 7, 2017)

Welcome


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## cda (Jul 7, 2017)

1. Are you able to post or link to the ordinance you are using

So we can see how it reads

2. Why does it matter if it is indoor or outdoor furniture being used? And how do you know the difference

3. Are enforcing this the same? If I drive a few blocks and take pictures will I see some porches with furniture that have not been issued a notice


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## Paul Sweet (Jul 7, 2017)

You're lucky he's not appealing it with a shotgun!


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## steveray (Jul 7, 2017)

As unsightly as it might be, I don't think you can cite rodents unless you see rodents (or proof of)....Furniture on a porch would be hard to fight as garbage also as there is a pretty specific definition in the IPMC....I imagine he is going to beat you depending on who makes up the appeals board...


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## fatboy (Jul 7, 2017)

That's why I could never do Code Enforcement!

I don't get rats under the hood, had mice in the ventilation ducts of vehicles though.......


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## JCraver (Jul 7, 2017)

Welcome, Hammer.  I don't mean to come off as an a$$ on your first post but...

No matter how you stretch it, nor how badly your City Manager and/or Mayor want it to be, furniture on a porch is not a violation of the IPMC.  Either write a specific ordinance into your City codes or next time, drive on by.

The IPMC is already the 2nd worst of the I-codes - no need to make it even more despicable by manufacturing reasons to apply it.


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## steveray (Jul 7, 2017)

What's first? Green?


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## JCraver (Jul 7, 2017)

steveray said:


> What's first? Green?



Energy.  We don't do the green code here, yet (and not ever, if I can help it).


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## north star (Jul 8, 2017)

*@ = @ = @*

Also, ...Welcome Hammer to the Building Codes Forum !  

Please keep on posting your input & questions. 

*@ = @ = @*


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## ICE (Jul 8, 2017)

My un


mtlogcabin said:


> With blinders.
> No violations in my book. As far as "rodent harborage" I find pack rats under the hood of my vehicles at least 4 times a year. Nope not going there at all.


An uncle had a cat that liked it under the hood in winter.....the operative word is had.


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## ADAguy (Jul 24, 2017)

Does you carb foul often?
Snakes, cats, etc; they all like warm places.
A bigger issue would be dead load from over stuffed furniture getting wet or collecting snow and ice


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## emy (Aug 3, 2017)

fatboy said:


> That's why I could never do Code Enforcement!
> 
> I don't get rats under the hood, had mice in the ventilation ducts of vehicles though.......


Same here


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## James Farrow (Feb 9, 2020)

Hammer said:


> We frequently run into situations where people will take old indoor furniture (stuffed chairs, sofas, etc,) and place them outside on a front porch or patio (not enclosed, may have a roof over top). We routinely write violations for "rubbish" in these situations as well as "rodent harborage". We view these articles of furniture as made for indoor use and not designed for outdoor use. We have a person who is planning to appeal a violation for this scenario. Does anyone else have any experience with this type of situation? How do you handle this scenario?



In my city we have an exterior property maintence ordinance (in addition to the adopted codes, 2012 IPMC, 2012 IRC).

"Any objects, debris, rubbish, and unsafe trees cannot be on the front yard, side yard, front porch, driveway, carport and backyard (if not screened)"  

Debris and rubbish is self-explanatory. 
Objects are any item with the exception of outdoor children's toys during approved use and outdoor furniture (furniture not approved as outdoor furniture is an object and must be removed from the grounds).  

Unsafe trees are trees that are dead, or declared by a city arborist to pose a danger in some way, in which case the property owner must remove them within 10 days.  



Essentially, outdoor furniture, approved outdoor lawn decor (which is fairly discretionary), and toys in use are the only thing that can be outside or on porches.  Everything must be stored inside.  This keeps lawns and porches looking clean. 

We do not generally fine, but will contractors out the removal or the debris/objects and bill the property owner (after going through the proper channels of legal notice and postings).  (though the inflated bill of city contractors is often worse than a fine).  


We do not cite for rodents unless we physically observe them.  But the "objects" provision of one of our ordinances (discussed above) covers indoor furniture placed or stored improperly (not inside).


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## tbz (Jun 11, 2021)

Yep,

I knew I didn't like city living for a reason, rats, rodents and the MP inspections on how high the grass is.

nothing like not seeing your neighbors,

My question is, how can you tell without looking at the tag if it is rated for interior or exterior, and as thus, under what right are you entering private property to check at tag for compliance?    

I see furniture on the front porch, looks to nice or bad to be rated for exterior use, but I need to check the tag to see if it is rated for exterior use?

And what if it not your taste, but is rated for exterior use, does your department also cover the window dressings?

Is this a historic zone within the city limits?  Or is this an HOA?


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## Rick18071 (Jun 11, 2021)

I see what you mean. This don't look very outdoorsy but it is.


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## Darren Emery (Jun 11, 2021)

We handle this with specific language in our IPMC adoption ordinance:

Sec. 21-12. - Illustrative enumeration.


The maintaining, using, placing, depositing, leaving or permitting to be or remain on any public or private property of any of the following items, conditions or actions are hereby declared to be and constitute a nuisance; provided, however, this enumeration shall not be deemed or construed to be conclusive, limiting or restrictive:
(1)
Noxious weeds as designated by the State of Kansas and other rank vegetation when such growth reaches 12 inches in height;
(2)
Accumulation of garbage, rubbish, trash, refuse, junk and other abandoned materials, appliances, bedding, bottles, boxes, broken glass, cans, cardboard, cartons, _furniture_ manufactured for _indoor_ use only*,* household appliances, jars, lumber and building supply materials that are not neatly stacked, machine parts, motor vehicles parts, pallets, paper, plumbing fixtures, rags, scrap metal, tire rims, tires, water heaters or other things which creates an unsightly appearance;


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