# Bank, ATM, Work Surface and Required Clearance



## jar546 (Oct 7, 2010)

When the ATM is put into place, it will project approximately 16" out from the angled wall and will therefore encroach into the workspace.  The drawings did not reflect this protrusion.  There will be a glass top placed on that work surface to make it a work surface.







There is, in addition to the work space, 1 teller position that is labeled as ADA:

Under ANSI 117.1 would this photo be a violation of 904.3?


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## jar546 (Oct 7, 2010)

20 views, 0 replies.  Where did all of the accessibility gurus go to?


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## mark handler (Oct 7, 2010)

May we can't quite understand your query

Cant see the violation for the ATM

The lowered counter appears to comply. The lowered counter is for the customer, not the teller.


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## Forest (Oct 8, 2010)

The way I see section 904.3 it is a no go.Not the entire width of the counter.


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## syarn (Oct 8, 2010)

agree with forest.

The accessible portion of the countertop

shall extend the same depth as the sales and service

countertop.


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## SBerg (Oct 8, 2010)

Disagree, 904.3 states the accessible portion of the counter shall extend the same depth of the sales and service counter.

Appears to me the depth of the accessible counter is identical to the service counter. Maybe ANSI meant to say the counter depth shall be continuous to the opposite edge.


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## peach (Oct 9, 2010)

the lower counter is for the customer to write, for example... the obstructed high forward reach is 44"; obstructed high side reach if 46".  This looks like a side reach situation.


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## Mech (Oct 19, 2010)

Can't comment on the ATM.

Teller location: I've always read this as "the minimum accessible portion length (measured from water bottle to water bottle in the picture) must be 36 inches for a parallel approach."  I do not read it as "part of a 36 inch long counter must be made accessible."  The code does not state whether the work surface must be a constant height or not.  I do read the code as saying the counter must meet height & width requirements from the customer side to the employee side of the counter.  I just spec out a constant height work surface.


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## Francis Vineyard (Oct 19, 2010)

The ATM protrusion will block the clear floor space and reach to the transaction slips of the built in ‘accessible’ counter.  The service counter needs to be full depth and minimum 36 inches wide to comply.

Providing there is a clear route and space for the ATM, the other issues can be solved with a service desk and directional signage.


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## jar546 (Oct 19, 2010)

ATM will protrude into the clear floor space of the work space used for filling out slips and writing checks.

The counter is not full depth but we don't have a consensus on this.  why?


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## Francis Vineyard (Oct 19, 2010)

My understanding for the full depth is two-fold; one is the person in the wheel chair will be in plain sight to the person behind the counter and vice versa.  Second and more importantly the transactions or manner of exchange should be done with the same respect as everyone else.

An argument can be made that the teller can reach over the counter though perhaps awkwardly, but I think the intent is to at least comply with section 308 for reach.

Edit; retract my earlier suggestion having and alternate service desk; this is something you need to get in writing from the area ADA representative or coordinator.  We have been able to do this in the past, but it appears this envelope is being pushed.

http://www.roanoke.com/business/wb/154358

http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=accessibility+exception+security+bank+teller+counter&d=4848885067942231&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=e3d6bc5,6d75343d


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## jar546 (Oct 20, 2010)

In this case, in addition to the ADA requirements that i have ZERO jurisdiction over, the ANSI 117.1 2003 applies in our state which I am responsible for.

I cannot see how this complies.


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## Mech (Oct 20, 2010)

Would the counter height be compliant if the entire accessible area were either lowered to the customer side height or raised to the employee side height?


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## JBI (Oct 20, 2010)

The counter needs to be accessible from BOTH sides. What if the bank hires a teller in a wheelchair? No comment on the ATM at this time...


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## jar546 (Oct 20, 2010)

Great, just came back from vacation and found out that one of my employee inspectors signed off on the final.  Now I have to go back and be the bad guy.

Yeah!!!


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## JBI (Oct 20, 2010)

Oooops! Sucks to be you... been there, done that. You'll live, your inspector will learn. Just give them time to make the modifications... Had a bank branch in WalMart install a compliant section of counter - they wanted to use a desk seperate from the regular service counter. Told them they couldn't do that by State Code or ADAAG (no, I wasn't enforcing ADAAG, both had the same requirement). Less than a month after I changed jobs to a new jurisdiction, the counter was altered to remove the accessible portion. Not my problem anymore...


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## jar546 (Oct 20, 2010)

Wow, weird.  This is a bank in a new walmart.


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## JBI (Oct 21, 2010)

As long as it's not FNBJ... THAT would be funny!


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## jar546 (Oct 27, 2010)

Fixed:






Not Fixed:


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## Mech (Oct 27, 2010)

In the "not fixed" pictures, does this really need to be fixed?  As long as there is another area to fill out deposit / withdrawal slips that is accessible, this pictured area would not need to be accessible.  One could argue that the accessible teller position could be used, but then there will be people waiting in line thinking "why doesn't this person have their paperwork filled out before they get in line?"


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## jar546 (Oct 27, 2010)

There are 2 desks, one for the manager and one for another employee.  They will not be performing teller duties but the desks could probably be used.  This area was specifically lowered for ADA then they angled the ATM and it projected out more than the flush mount shown on the prints causing this problem.  They have already been flagged on this before elsewhere and I suppose were betting on the fact that I may not catch it.

When I found out about this situation before they set the ATM I was told that they would have another one in the bank which they have not supplied yet.


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