# No Exhaust Hood Required for UL710B



## Tony120

According to IMC 2015, Section 507 Commercial Kitchen Hoods Exceptions No.2:

_2. *Factory-built commercial cooking recirculating systems that are listed and labeled in accordance with UL 710B*, and installed in accordance with Section 304.1, shall not be required to comply with Sections 507.1.5, 507.2.3, 507.2.5, 507.2.8, 507.3.1, 507.3.3, 507.4 and 507.5. Spaces in which such systems are located shall be considered to be kitchens and shall be ventilated in accordance with Table 403.3.1.1. For the purpose of determining the floor area required to be ventilated, each individual appliance shall be considered as occupying not less than 100 square feet (9.3 m2)._


Now i have an electric oven and ventless system already comply to:
*Standard for Commercial Electric Cooking Appliances, UL 197
Standard for Recirculating Systems, UL710B
Standard for Commercial Cooking Appliances, CSA C22.2 No. 109-M1981 *


So, no any Type I or Type II exhaust hood is required for this set up?

Thank you!


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## cda

Welcome 

Where are you located??


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## cda

Not sure your question

Is it you have an oven only, and need to know if it needs to be under a hood??

Gas or electric ??

I am going to say it needs typ II hood.


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## Francis Vineyard

"Factory-built commercial cooking recirculating systems consist of an electric cooking appliance and an integral or matched packaged hood assembly. The hood assembly consists of a fan, collection hood, grease filter, fire damper, fire-extinguishing system and air filter such as an electrostatic precipitator. Recirculating systems are not used with fuel-fired appliances because the filtering systems do not remove products of combustion.

A concern with using such a system is that they are tested to prevent particulate matter from being redistributed into the space, but they do not completely remove all contaminants and odors. For this reason, a space where one of the appliances is installed must be considered as a kitchen for the purpose of applying Table 403.3"

excerpt 2012 commentary exception 2, 710B


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## Tony120

thank you guys!

So we have an electrical combination oven in a pastry kitchen inside a 5 star hotel.
And i would like to know if type I / type II exhaust hood is required with this oven is equip with such ventless hood system (the *Recirculating Systems, UL710B)*

There is a UL lab test report saying the grease-laden effluents collected was 1.45 mg/m³ , so i am guessing type I hood is not required but i am not quite sure about the heat issue.


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## cda

Tony120 said:


> thank you guys!
> 
> So we have an electrical combination oven in a pastry kitchen inside a 5 star hotel.
> And i would like to know if type I / type II exhaust hood is required with this oven is equip with such ventless hood system (the *Recirculating Systems, UL710B)*
> 
> There is a UL lab test report saying the grease-laden effluents collected was 1.45 mg/m³ , so i am guessing type I hood is not required but i am not quite sure about the heat issue.




I think you are mixing tuna and octopus ,,,,

""""the *Recirculating Systems, UL710B)""""       *This I have only seen in a portable deep fat fryer, all self contained.  and very few:::


https://www.katom.com/110-GEF400VH....mam=29342707&zmas=1&zmac=26&zmap=110-GEF400VH



I think you are asking about a regular oven. That needs to be under a type II hood, and leave it at that. Do not worry if it is vented or not.


Once again I take it is an electric oven??????   or is it natural gas?


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## Tony120

cda said:


> I think you are mixing tuna and octopus ,,,,
> 
> """"the *Recirculating Systems, UL710B)""""       *This I have only seen in a portable deep fat fryer, all self contained.  and very few:::
> 
> 
> https://www.katom.com/110-GEF400VH....mam=29342707&zmas=1&zmac=26&zmap=110-GEF400VH
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are asking about a regular oven. That needs to be under a type II hood, and leave it at that. Do not worry if it is vented or not.
> 
> 
> Once again I take it is an electric oven??????   or is it natural gas?




Its an electric oven,  and it got all the certificates and I will upload it later. 

So in your case,  is any exhaust Hood required for that fryer?


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## cda

Tony120 said:


> Its an electric oven,  and it got all the certificates and I will upload it later.
> 
> So in your case,  is any exhaust Hood required for that fryer?




The self contained???   No


As for your oven you only need type II


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## cda

*Imc 


507.3 Type II hoods. *
Type II hoods shall be installed above dishwashers and appliances that produce heat or moisture and do not produce grease or smoke as a result of the cooking process, except where the heat and moisture loads from such appliances are incorporated into the HVAC system design or into the design of a separate removal system. Type II hoods shall be installed above all appliances that produce products of combustion and do not produce grease or smoke as a result of the cooking process. Spaces containing cooking appliances that do not require Type II hoods shall be provided with exhaust at a rate of 0.70 cfm per square foot (0.00033 m3/s).For the purpose of determining the floor area required to be exhausted, each individual appliance that is not required to be installed under a Type II hood shall be considered as occupying not less than 100 square feet (9.3 m2). Such additional square footage shall be provided with exhaust at a rate of 0.70 cfm per square foot [.00356 m3/(s × m2)].


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## Tony120

our target is to get rid of any type I or type II hoods by using this Rational Ultra Vent







Here is the link to the UL about the grease-laden effluentsis is 1.45 mg/m³. (which is below 5 mg/m³)

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/...n=versionless&parent_id=1073989152&sequence=1


And here is the UL certificate of compliance and the spec sheet:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-PZXvj46HD3MkxXVHg1c3JIcDg

My idea is that: electric oven with this Ultra Vent ( UL710B Recirculating Ventilation Systems) plus general exhaust to take away the heat 

(some document says that "A minimum of 450 cubic feet per minute (CFM) of air must be provided through the facility’s heating, ventilation, and cooling system for each heating and cooking appliance equipped with an integral or under a nonintegral recirculating system in order to maintain acceptable working conditions.")


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## cda

Interesting

Have not seen a self contained oven


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## cda

Do you have a link to the oven itself and specs ?


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## cda

Any install guide??


https://www.rational-online.com/en_...?category=6721&locale=en_gb&lastSelectionBox=


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## cda

Ok after going around the world and trying to remember the German language,,,,

"Bitte ein Bit"


If it meets 710B, than good to be used with no hood.
As someone pointed out still need to comply with 403


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## rgrace

You're totally barking up the wrong tree here. Look at IMC 507.2.1, exception. This cooking appliance complies with this exception. Type I hood not required. You will have to come up with your own interpretation of 507.2.2 whether a Type II hood would be required, but I would lean toward only requiring general exhaust as outlined in the latter part of that code section.


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## cda

rgrace said:


> You're totally barking up the wrong tree here. Look at IMC 507.2.1, exception. This cooking appliance complies with this exception. Type I hood not required. You will have to come up with your own interpretation of 507.2.2 whether a Type II hood would be required, but I would lean toward only requiring general exhaust as outlined in the latter part of that code section.




Not sure if I will say this right

If it were to require a type I hood,

And it is listed so a type I hood is not required

Seems like they are exceeding the code by providing more than a type II hood


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## cda

Or in offical building code lingo,,,,


They are meeting the intent of the code for type II hood


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## Tony120

So whats the point of Recirculating Hood Systems UL710B if it still need a type II hood?

Then its not any kind of "ductless"  at all.


About UL Recirculating System:
http://www.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/ul_RecirculatingHoodSystems.pdf


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## cda

Tony120 said:


> So whats the point of Recirculating Hood Systems UL710B if it still need a type II hood?
> 
> Then its not any kind of "ductless"  at all.
> 
> 
> About UL Recirculating System:
> http://www.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/ul_RecirculatingHoodSystems.pdf




I am down to with the oven set up you show 

No hood needed.


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## Tony120

thank you !

After reading numerous document, can i conclude the followings for ductless cooking set up that fulfill IBC / IMC:

1. First category (KNKG), all-in-one including UL710B hood, cooking appliance and integrated Ansul
- Sample: http://www.wellsbloomfield.com/olds...ELLS/WELLS PRODUCTS/ventless/ProdVentless.htm

2. Second category (YZCT), UL710B hood with built-in Ansul, with separated UL197 cooking appliance underneath
- Sample: http://www.gfsequipment.com/p/99788/gvh-cgvh-f

Moreover, do i need general exhaust for the heat produce from such set ups?


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## cda

Agree with #1

#2 would be cae by case 

I think the answer on the last one is no, room air ventilation would have to meet code


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## rgrace

Tony, in post #10 you have a link that references a piece of equipment (manufacturer is Rational) that complies with IMC 507.2.1, exception. In post #20, you have two links that reference two different manufacturers, Wells and Giles. The Wells equipment complies with IMC 507.1, exception 2, and the Giles complies with 507.2.1, exception. The Wells is considered a factory-built recirculating system that complies with all of UL 710B. The Rational and Giles are not considered factory-build recirculating systems per 507.1, exception 2 because they comply only with Section 17 of UL 710B. These are two different things entirely, and you appear to be mixing them together. If you want to install the Rational or Giles, you comply with 507.2.1, exception that states a Type I hood is not required, but does not state that a Type II hood is not required (thus you have to make the AHJ call for section 507.2.2). If you want to install the Wells, you comply with 507.1, exception 2 that states you do not need to comply with certain hood requirement sections because this piece of equipment has a Type I hood integral to it.


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## rgrace

Oh, and either way, you have to comply with IMC Table 403.3 and provide a minimum of 0.7 cfm of exhaust per square foot. That can be accomplished in a variety of ways, but not by the HVAC system.


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## Tony120

rgrace said:


> Tony, in post #10 you have a link that references a piece of equipment (manufacturer is Rational) that complies with IMC 507.2.1, exception. In post #20, you have two links that reference two different manufacturers, Wells and Giles. The Wells equipment complies with IMC 507.1, exception 2, and the Giles complies with 507.2.1, exception. The Wells is considered a factory-built recirculating system that complies with all of UL 710B. The Rational and Giles are not considered factory-build recirculating systems per 507.1, exception 2 because they comply only with Section 17 of UL 710B. These are two different things entirely, and you appear to be mixing them together. If you want to install the Rational or Giles, you comply with 507.2.1, exception that states a Type I hood is not required, but does not state that a Type II hood is not required (thus you have to make the AHJ call for section 507.2.2). If you want to install the Wells, you comply with 507.1, exception 2 that states you do not need to comply with certain hood requirement sections because this piece of equipment has a Type I hood integral to it.



Thanks for your reply!
Yes they are different cases and i am just wondering how far the "ductless" idea can go within IMC requirement with those different scenarios. 

I thought any UL710B recirculating system complies to IMC without any type I or type II hood.
You mean that the Wells is good without any type I or type II hood (as it got type I hood integral) , while the Rational / Giles require type II hood  (despite it has its UL710B recirculating system) ?

What makes it different for the UL710B recirculating system between the Wells and Rational as i think they are same scenario.


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## Rick18071

Saw one in a Kiosk in a mall that made cinnabuns.


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## cda

Tony120 said:


> Thanks for your reply!
> Yes they are different cases and i am just wondering how far the "ductless" idea can go within IMC requirement with those different scenarios.
> 
> I thought any UL710B recirculating system complies to IMC without any type I or type II hood.
> You mean that the Wells is good without any type I or type II hood (as it got type I hood integral) , while the Rational / Giles require type II hood  (despite it has its UL710B recirculating system) ?
> 
> What makes it different for the UL710B recirculating system between the Wells and Rational as i think they are same scenario.




I am thinking the listing and manufacture have limits on say size of equipment, fuel type and maybe a few other limiters


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## Tony120

cda said:


> I am thinking the listing and manufacture have limits on say size of equipment, fuel type and maybe a few other limiters



Yes the UL710B only allow UL 197 electrical cooking equipment to be used , gas fuel is not allowed


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## rgrace

One refers to complying with all the applicable requirements of UL 710B, the other does not. Here's an example: the following link is a product (no preference, just selected one) that also complies with 507.2.1, exception, but does not comply with 507.1, exception 2. Simply put, the Rational and Giles products have not been through any further testing or listing than this product has. All three are equal when it comes to testing, listing and labeling. If you put this product next to one of the Wells products that comply with 507.1, exception 2, you will see a huge difference. Copy and paste the link into your browser.

http://www.jesrestaurantequipment.com/assets/spec-sheets/2002/ALTXL300A.pdf


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## rgrace

Little history .... UL 197SB changed to UL 710B


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## rgrace

Compare this to post #10

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/...n=versionless&parent_id=1073989152&sequence=1


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## Tony120

rgrace said:


> Compare this to post #10
> 
> http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/...n=versionless&parent_id=1073989152&sequence=1



This is for the rational, its also that "KNLZ",  is it the same?

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/...n=versionless&parent_id=1073989152&sequence=1


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## rgrace

Yes, the listing, labeling and testing is the same for the Rational as it is for the Alto-Shaam. The listing, labeling and testing for a true UL 710B factory-built commercial cooking recirculation system is far more intense, and has a completely different UL category listing.


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## ADAguy

Voice of last resort, have you spoken with your local fire authority for a buy in?


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