# Can truncated domes be within path of travel?



## runbird (Mar 9, 2012)

CBC Sec 1107A.1-A, where the path of travel needs to be clear and unobstructed......my interpretation of this is code is that truncated domes cannot be within the path of travel since I consider them to be an obstruction.  Does anyone know if this is a correct interpretation? or can you have truncated domes as part of your path of travel?


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## TheCommish (Mar 9, 2012)

I am not familiar with the cite, however definitions are often the key to codes. In MA where I am we use the term accessible route that has specific criteria which would not consider trunked domes (those on the  ground) rather accessible route would be unobstructed if there were no out of compliance projections, slots, ramps or stairs on the path of travel.


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## mark handler (Mar 9, 2012)

Yes, truncated domes can be within the path of travel.

They are not an obstruction, they are a warning to a hazard.

You want them in the POT.


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## mark handler (Mar 9, 2012)

In CA the DW's need to be full width and full depth of ramp, DSA allow this as an alternate


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## KZQuixote (Mar 9, 2012)

Tactile Warning Devices are only used when a accessible route crosses a vehicular path. Meaning that they're not required at the base of a ramp to a van accessible aisle.

Bill


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## mark handler (Mar 10, 2012)

KZQuixote said:
			
		

> Tactile Warning Devices are only used when a accessible route crosses a vehicular path. Meaning that they're not required at the base of a ramp to a van accessible aisle. Bill


Bill

In CA, see original post, That is not true


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## Codegeek (Aug 15, 2012)

mark handler said:
			
		

> Yes, truncated domes can be within the path of travel. They are not an obstruction, they are a warning to a hazard.
> 
> You want them in the POT.


So, in the photo example, if there is a curb at each end of the area covered in truncated domes and the distance between the curbs is say 1000 feet, is the entire area is considered a curb rank, specifically to California accessibility requirements and therefore must be covered in truncated domes?


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## mjesse (Aug 15, 2012)

FWIW--I'm not entirely sure, but...I was told the 2010 (now in effect) ADAAG has changed to only require domes at roadways, i.e. crosswalks on the road.

The 1000' example would not be required, and In-n-Out burger could get rid of all those mats

mj


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## Codegeek (Aug 15, 2012)

I would agree, except California has different requirements for curb ramps.  The code language says that truncated domes are required at curb ramps for the full width and depth of the curb ramp.  If the ramp is over 1000 feet, as it is on a project I'm working on, we may be looking at putting in over 1000 feet of truncated domes.


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## north star (Aug 17, 2012)

*= =*

Codegeek,

Does the Cal. requirement also state the truncated domes

must be installed over the entire length of the ramp, or

just at the transition point from grade to the ramp itself?

IMO, it sounds as though just the transition point is

where the domes would be required......In the photo posted

above, the area of the installed yellow domes is the point

of transition.

*$ $*


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## Codegeek (Aug 17, 2012)

north star said:
			
		

> *= =*Codegeek,
> 
> Does the Cal. requirement also state the truncated domes
> 
> ...


That's what I'm trying to find out.


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## MtnArch (Aug 17, 2012)

In Cal and you have a curb ramp the TDs must be installed on the entire length and width of the ramp (not on the flares if you have them).  If it's not a curb ramp they are required to be the full width x 36" deep at the transition to a hazardous area/drive aisle along the accessible path of travel.


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## Codegeek (Aug 17, 2012)

MtnArch said:
			
		

> In Cal and you have a curb ramp the TDs must be installed on the entire length and width of the ramp (not on the flares if you have them).  If it's not a curb ramp they are required to be the full width x 36" deep at the transition to a hazardous area/drive aisle along the accessible path of travel.


So, referring to the photo with the yellow truncated domes, if the curb ramp is 1,000 feet in length, then the entire 1,000 feet must have truncated domes?  Why wouldn't the 1,000 feet be a transition area?  It just seems overkill to put in 1,000 feet of truncated domes in when the curb is over 1,000 feet apart.


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## mark handler (Aug 17, 2012)

Codegeek said:
			
		

> That's what I'm trying to find out.


CA does require entire "curb ramp" to be covered, But in PROW areas, not covered by the building code, most municipalities rely on Federal Hwy standards that just have the lower three feet w/DW

Curb ramp

On Private property full width full depth

Public property 3 feet at bottom of ramp

Pedestrian ramps

DW not required

Hazardous transitions, as in the In and Out picture above, 3 feet


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## Codegeek (Aug 17, 2012)

mark handler said:
			
		

> CA does require entire "curb ramp" to be covered, But in PROW areas, not covered by the building code, most municipalities rely on Federal Hwy standards that just have the lower three feet w/DWCurb ramp
> 
> On Private property full width full depth
> 
> ...


It looks like there is a curb ramp towards the back of the transition by the drive-thru.

What I'm dealing with is a retail store with a transition area that measures over 1,000 feet in length.  At each end of the transition is a curb.  So, is this a transition or a curb ramp?


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## mark handler (Aug 17, 2012)

Codegeek said:
			
		

> It looks like there is a curb ramp towards the back of the transition by the drive-thru.  What I'm dealing with is a retail store with a transition area that measures over 1,000 feet in length.  At each end of the transition is a curb.  So, is this a transition or a curb ramp?


If there is a curb ramp towards the back, it should be full width and depth

Is it a ramp or a transition is a curb?

A ramp is clearly defined in the CBC.

A zero curb face "transition", requires the entire length to have DW three feet wide


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## Codegeek (Aug 17, 2012)

It's not a ramp.  The elevation is the same throughout the transition area and the parking lot as well as the entrance into the store.  I'd post an image, but all I have is a pdf file and I don't have the software to convert it to a jpeg, gif or png.


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## mark handler (Aug 17, 2012)

This is not rocket science or brain surgery


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## Codegeek (Aug 17, 2012)

mark handler said:
			
		

> This is not rocket science or brain surgery


I understand that.  The photo didn't come through in the post when I read it first and responded.  Now I see what you're saying.  Thanks for your help Mark.


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## Frank (Aug 17, 2012)

The whole purpose of truncated domes is to keep the blind from walking from a pedestrian way into traffic, a reflecting pond or onto the rails without warning.  Where the sidewalk is flush with the pavement it is needed the whole way.  They are not considered an obstruction.

That said they can give wheelchair users and especially the frail using walkers some difficulties

.


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## pwood (Aug 17, 2012)

how many times have you had something fly out of the shopping cart after rolling over td's? :mrgreen:


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