# Can you do this?



## jar546 (Mar 12, 2019)

Here is a drawing submitted for approval.  What is wrong with this?  What information would you need to know in order to approve this permit?


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## LCBob (Mar 12, 2019)

More than one service disconnect is permitted, NEC 230.71; however an indoor and an outdoor service disconnect does not meet the grouping requirements of NEC 230.72.


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## jar546 (Mar 12, 2019)

LCBob said:


> More than one service disconnect is permitted, NEC 230.71; however an indoor and an outdoor service disconnect does not meet the grouping requirements of NEC 230.72.



Bingo!  That is one of a few issues I sent back and the main issue too.
Unless, of course he wants to feed the 60A from the interior panel through the meter base at which point we have another issue.....


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## LCBob (Mar 12, 2019)

Another issue...yes, as service conductors and feeders are not permitted in the same raceway. 

Also, I think a set of load calculations are in order as there may be over 100 amps of load being carried on service conductors rated at 100 amps.


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## jar546 (Mar 13, 2019)

LCBob said:


> Another issue...yes, as service conductors and feeders are not permitted in the same raceway.
> 
> Also, I think a set of load calculations are in order as there may be over 100 amps of load being carried on service conductors rated at 100 amps.



Yes, yet another issue that they need to show


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## chris kennedy (Mar 13, 2019)

LCBob said:


> I think a set of load calculations are in order as there may be over 100 amps of load being carried on service conductors rated at 100 amps.



#4 good for 85A @ 75°C


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## LCBob (Mar 14, 2019)

Yes, #4 is good for 85 amps. But without knowing what the connected loads are, the conductors on the line side of the meter can exceed 120 amps and is not permitted.


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## ICE (Mar 14, 2019)

Is this residential or commercial?  The 100 amp label on the meter cabinet stands for what exactly?


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## jar546 (Mar 14, 2019)

ICE said:


> Is this residential or commercial?  The 100 amp label on the meter cabinet stands for what exactly?



It is implying that the meter can is rated for 100A


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## ICE (Mar 14, 2019)

Residential?


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## LCBob (Mar 14, 2019)

I hope the answer is residential.
I assumed it was residential. 
If not residential, my previous posts are embarrassing.


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## jar546 (Mar 15, 2019)

LCBob said:


> I hope the answer is residential.
> I assumed it was residential.
> If not residential, my previous posts are embarrassing.



Residential, sorry for the delay.


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## ICE (Mar 15, 2019)

jar546 said:


> It is implying that the meter can is rated for 100A


What is the ampere rating of the proposed service?


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## ICE (Mar 16, 2019)

This is a thread with a lot going on but it isn't getting enough attention.


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## jar546 (Mar 16, 2019)

ICE said:


> This is a thread with a lot going on but it isn't getting enough attention.



Agree


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## jar546 (Mar 16, 2019)

ICE said:


> What is the ampere rating of the proposed service?



I will have to assume 100A since the meter base is rated at 100A


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## ICE (Mar 17, 2019)

Alrighty then....in your best estimate, is 100 amps sufficient?

Out of idle curiosity, do you normally receive such drawings for approval with residential services?


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## jar546 (Mar 17, 2019)

ICE said:


> Alrighty then....in your best estimate, is 100 amps sufficient?
> 
> Out of idle curiosity, do you normally receive such drawings for approval with residential services?



Most of the time we do but missing was the load calc for the dwelling, panel schedules and a drawing that had more detailed info.


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## ICE (Mar 17, 2019)

jar546 said:


> Most of the time we do but missing was the load calc for the dwelling, panel schedules and a drawing that had more detailed info.


We never get drawings or load calcs.  What we get is a permit for a 200 amp panel.  Now and then there's a 400 amp panel.  Upon  site visit, an inspector might request load calcs.

And that 100 amp service in your drawing.....is it too small based on the two main disconnects and that's why you want load calcs?

Getting information out of you is not that easy.  You can have a lawyer present during this questioning.


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## jar546 (Mar 17, 2019)

ICE said:


> We never get drawings or load calcs.  What we get is a permit for a 200 amp panel.  Now and then there's a 400 amp panel.  Upon  site visit, an inspector might request load calcs.
> 
> And that 100 amp service in your drawing.....is it too small based on the two main disconnects and that's why you want load calcs?
> 
> Getting information out of you is not that easy.  You can have a lawyer present during this questioning.



It is simple, we require it and we get it or no permit.  The service has to be the right size and we want to make sure it is.  It is not uncommon for the load calc to result in a service upgrade.


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## ICE (Mar 17, 2019)

Let us know how it turns out.


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