# Attic Light or Ordinary hazard?



## mtlogcabin (Apr 23, 2010)

Blazemaster is being installed in a Restaraunt. The kitchen area is schdule 10 steel the attic area above the kitchen area is Blazemaster PVC glycol system.

Is this attic area a Light Hazard which would permit the installation of a PVC fire sprinkler system?


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## Coug Dad (Apr 23, 2010)

Is the attic combustible or non combustible.  Attics are generally light hazard, but there are other issues I will look into regarding the use of Blazemaster in that application.


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## mtlogcabin (Apr 23, 2010)

Combustible wood, frame and trusses V-B construction. No mechanical equipment in the attic


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## Coug Dad (Apr 23, 2010)

For one, you can not use Glycol with Blazemaster CPVC.  They have to use glycerin/water solutions.  Since it is not flat construction, they would have to use one of the Listed attic type sprinklers.

here is a link to the approved Blazemaster installation guide

http://www.harvelsprinklerpipe.com/design_installation/pdf/installation-instructions.pdf


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## cda (Apr 23, 2010)

agree with coug need to read the listing for the plastic.

It does not appear you can feed the heads protecting the attic with plastic.

I would call the maker, because they are always updating the listing and where it can be used.

http://www.harvelsprinklerpipe.com/specifications/index.asp

CPVC is not approved for use in combustible concealed spaces where sprinklers are required to protect these areas as defined by NFPA 13, unless certain specific application sprinklers are installed per their listing. Refer to Harvel’s current Installation Instructions for additional information.

Combustible Attic Spaces with

Specific Use Sprinklers

In accordance with the UL Listing, Harvel® CPVC Fire Sprinkler Products

may be installed within the attic space provided the attic space is protected

with UL Listed Tyco Fire Products Specific Application Attic Sprinklers.

Specific Application Attic Sprinklers are sprinklers designed to provide

protection of specific light hazard combustible, as well as non-combustible,

attic spaces requiring sprinkler protection.

Installation Requirements

When using the Specific Application Attic Sprinklers, Harvel CPVC Fire

Sprinkler Products may be installed to feed the wet system sprinklers

below the ceiling and exposed to feed wet system specific application

attic sprinklers provided the system is installed in accordance with the

Tyco Fire Products’ Technical Data Sheet TFP610 (dated October 2005)

for Specific Application Attic Sprinklers.


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## cda (Apr 23, 2010)

you might also call blazemaster and ask the question::

http://www.lubrizol.com/buildingsolutions/support.html


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## Gene Boecker (Apr 23, 2010)

And here I thought the question had to do with a 60 Watt or 100 Watt "attic light."


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## Coug Dad (Apr 23, 2010)

I am waiting for the discussion to veer into the stairs that serve the attic


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## Gene Boecker (Apr 23, 2010)

Well, if there's no light there won't BE any "stares" in the attic.


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## brudgers (Apr 24, 2010)

Thanks for the illuminating post, Gene.


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## Builder Bob (Apr 26, 2010)

Somebody has aluded to a issue not being discussed...... Is the attic going to be used for file storage? IBC 413


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## brudgers (Apr 26, 2010)

If it's used for storage, it's occupied space.

No longer an attic.

It's an attic story or mezzanine.


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## Builder Bob (Apr 26, 2010)

Not neccessarily, An attic used for storage (paper files in boxes etc.) does not have to meet the 7 foot height clearance requirements of occupiable space...... therefore isn't a mezzinine, nor would I call it a story since it dosen't have the two required means of egress that would be required per chapter 10 for a story.


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## brudgers (Apr 26, 2010)

If it's used for storage, it's occupied.


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## Gene Boecker (Apr 26, 2010)

brudgers said:
			
		

> If it's used for storage, it's occupied.


No.  It's not.

By definition:

*OCCUPIABLE SPACE. *_A room or enclosed space designed for human occupancy in which individuals congregate for amusement, educational or similar purposes or in which occupants are engaged at labor, and which is equipped with means of egress and light and ventilation facilities meeting the requirements of this code._
​

Unless the storage space is one in which people "congregate for amusement, educational or similar purposes" or are "engaged in labor" it is not an occupiable space.


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## peach (May 2, 2010)

I say ordinary, not light hazard..  too many questions.


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## brudgers (May 3, 2010)

Gene Boecker said:
			
		

> No.  It's not.By definition:
> 
> *OCCUPIABLE SPACE. *_A room or enclosed space designed for human occupancy in which individuals congregate for amusement, educational or similar purposes or in which occupants are engaged at labor, and which is equipped with means of egress and light and ventilation facilities meeting the requirements of this code._
> ​
> ...


Storing and retrieving materials from the attic requires persons laboring (unless it's being done by machines).


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## AegisFPE (May 3, 2010)

> ...engaged at labor, *and* which is equipped with means of egress and light and ventilation facilities meeting the requirements of this code.


Appears that if the means of egress, or light, and/or ventilation does not meet the requirements of the code, that the attic could be outside the definition of occupiable space.


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## mtlogcabin (May 3, 2010)

Interesting how a post can morph into other areas. This attic is just that an attic, no storage, no lights, no ventilation, no mechanical equipment. Blazemaster agreed it would be light hazard


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## cda (May 3, 2010)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Interesting how a post can morph into other areas. This attic is just that an attic, no storage, no lights, no ventilation, no mechanical equipment. Blazemaster agreed it would be light hazard


what did blazemaster say about using plastic pipe to feed heads protecting the acutal attic area??


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## mtlogcabin (May 3, 2010)

> what did blazemaster say about using plastic pipe to feed heads protecting the acutal attic area??


cda he said it was ok but we are going to call them again because what I  am reading in their installation instructions it would not be ok. This is a 5,000 sq ft attic with a 6/12 pitch roof


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## cda (May 3, 2010)

that is my read also

you can run plastic in the attic to feed the floor below, if you sprinkler the attic using steel pipe

but they keep adding listed uses all the time, so hard to keep up


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## FM William Burns (May 4, 2010)

Little late in the game but can it be used with specific heads per it's listing since I didn't read through all the various manuals except the one that indicated it could be used if specific heads were used.


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## mtlogcabin (May 5, 2010)

FM is correct Blazemaster said it is ok to be exposed in the attic because of the specific heads and spacing.

 The installer reffered to the heads as BB1 & BB2 heads (not sure what they are will need more info) spaced at 4 ft centers


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## cda (May 5, 2010)

tyco attic heads

there is about four pages of don'ts so get the complete install instructions

and also check the hydrualics very closely.

also, if there is storage in the attic, the heads are not listed for that.

http://www.tyco-fire.com/index.php?P=show&id=TFP610_05_2008&B=&BK=product&SB=S6

pretty bad when there are 28 pages of how to's


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## FM William Burns (May 5, 2010)

MT,

Double check the submittals for the BB1 and BB2's since there were some recalls on them a year or so ago......so much to remember and the older I get the more I forget : (


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