# Walk-in Closets in Multifamily



## nealderidder (Feb 7, 2022)

For a multifamily project in CA. No public funding, these are market rate rentals with private financing. Since it's CA all units are considered "covered" in this hypothetical four story building with elevator. This question is about the interior of units, not community spaces. 

When it comes to a walk-in closet, what's driving the minimum interior dimensions? The CBC doesn't mention closets but does mention (some paraphrasing):

_1130A.1 ...accessible route shall be provided through all rooms and spaces of the dwelling unit...shall connect with required clear floor spaces at kitchen appliances, bathroom fixtures.

1132A.5.1 ...Maneuvering clearances at interior doors shall provide a minimum length on both sides of the door of at least 42" at a right angle to the door in its closed position...

 1132A.5.2 ...width of clear area on the side to which the door swings shall extend 18" past the strike edge for all doors. _

Attached are several walk-in options.

A: What would be a decent walk-in for a small apartment with a 2' door. 
B: Same as "A" with a 3' door. 48" push side clearance shown. 
C: Same as "B" but with push side clearance moved outside the theoretical location of hanging clothes. 
D: Closet with 5' turnaround.
E: Closet with 5' turnaround outside theoretical location of hanging clothes.

So boiling down a few questions:

1. In CA, in a private, rental, multifamily apartment (new build) does a walk-in closet require a 5' turnaround?
2. Would said turnaround (or door clearance) be measure to closet walls? theoretical location of hanging clothes? Clothes rods?
3. Which of the attached would you consider compliant with the CBC under the circumstances described?

Thanks for any insight!

Regarding #1 above - note that a 5' turnaround isn't required within the bathroom of the same dwelling unit...


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## mark handler (Feb 8, 2022)

*IMPO*
A: What would be a decent walk-in for a small apartment with a 2' door.
* If you want accessibility, cannot be "walk-in"*​B: Same as "A" with a 3' door. 48" push side clearance shown.
*Closet can be as large as you want, roll-in back out. (C,D, and E)*​C: Same as "B" but with push side clearance moved outside the theoretical location of hanging clothes.
*Closet can be as large as you want, roll-in back out.*​D: Closet with 5' turnaround.
*Closet can be as large as you want.*​E: Closet with 5' turnaround outside theoretical location of hanging clothes.
*Closet can be as large as you want.*​
So boiling down a few questions:

1. In CA, in a private, rental, multifamily apartment (new build) does a walk-in closet require a 5' turnaround? 
*No; roll-in back out.*​2. Would said turnaround (or door clearance) be measure to closet walls? theoretical location of hanging clothes? Clothes rods?
*Measure to obstruction, including clothing*​3. Which of the attached would you consider compliant with the CBC under the circumstances described
*C,D, and E*​


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## nealderidder (Feb 9, 2022)

mark handler said:


> *IMPO*
> A: What would be a decent walk-in for a small apartment with a 2' door.
> * If you want accessibility, cannot be "walk-in"*​B: Same as "A" with a 3' door. 48" push side clearance shown.
> *Closet can be as large as you want, roll-in back out. (C,D, and E)*​C: Same as "B" but with push side clearance moved outside the theoretical location of hanging clothes.
> ...


Thank you for the detailed response Mark. I'm curious about the "roll-in back out" phrase. What in the code would lead me to reach the conclusion that such a thing is compliant in this circumstance?


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## mark handler (Feb 10, 2022)

nealderidder said:


> Thank you for the detailed response Mark. I'm curious about the "roll-in back out" phrase. What in the code would lead me to reach the conclusion that such a thing is compliant in this circumstance?


Just like the ADASAD for Commercial work spaces, they have access.


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## Yikes (Feb 10, 2022)

mark handler said:


> Just like the ADASAD for Commercial work spaces, they have access.


Mark, post #1 said it was privately funded. Instead of comparing to ADASAD, is there a comparable reference in CBC 11A and/or FHA?


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## mark handler (Feb 10, 2022)

Yikes said:


> Mark, post #1 said it was privately funded. Instead of comparing to ADASAD, is there a comparable reference in CBC 11A and/or FHA?


Yes see attached


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## mark handler (Feb 10, 2022)

mark handler said:


> Yes see attached


Chapter 11A CALIFORNIA BUILDING CODE

1127A.11.1 General
If fixed storage facilities such as cabinets, shelves, *closets* or drawers are provided where access is required by Sections 1.8.2.1.2 and 1102A, at least one of each type of facility provided shall comply with this section. Additional storage may be provided outside of the reach ranges specified in Section 1138A.3.
1127A.11.2 Clear Floor Space
A clear floor space at least 30 inches by 48 inches complying with Section 1138A.1.4 that allows either a forward or parallel approach by a person using a wheelchair shall be provided at accessible storage facilities.


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## Yikes (Feb 11, 2022)

So the key issue is: when is the 30"x48" clear forward or parallel approach required to go either partway or else completely INSIDE of the closet, instead of staying outside of the closet (located completely in the room where the closet is located)?

Here's some options:

1) EVERY square inch of the closet footprint must be within reach.  In that case, the closet must not exceed 24" depth, unless you are able to roll in.

2)  Only those storage components in the closet that  require reaching need to be within reach.  For example, a 32" deep closet could have (a) a hanging rod within 24" depth, could have (b) shelf where with a ledge in within 24" depth, and could have (c) a floor with a ledge at the rear.  For items (b) and (c), the ledge would prevent the stored items (shoes, etc.) from getting pushed further back than the 24" reach range.

3) No limits to rear depths of any storage element (rods, shelves, floor space) as long as the front edges of shelves and the full diameter of rad is within 24" reach.

What do you all think?

***

Regarding whether or not a closet is so deep that a turnaround is required, here's where it gets unclear in the CBC:
CBC 1130A.1 says "*an accessible route shall be provided THROUGH all rooms and SPACES of the dwelling unit*".

Question #1:  at what dimension does a closet become a "room" or a "space" requiring an accessible route?

Question #2:  assuming for the moment that a closet IS a space, then what does the word "through" imply, especially if the closet is a dead-end?
Does the word "through" imply only a forward motion, and thus compel a turnaround? 
Or can you go "through" a space by going in forward, then backing out in reverse?


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## mark5211 (Feb 11, 2022)

nealderidder said:


> For a multifamily project in CA. No public funding, these are market rate rentals with private financing. Since it's CA all units are considered "covered" in this hypothetical four story building with elevator. This question is about the interior of units, not community spaces.
> 
> When it comes to a walk-in closet, what's driving the minimum interior dimensions? The CBC doesn't mention closets but does mention (some paraphrasing):
> 
> ...


I believe door maneuvering clearances are setting minimum size of WIC's under CBC chapter 11A. Suggest accommodating 60" turning circle nonetheless. Then it will be easier to reuse the unit outside of Cali for an ANSI type A. Also suggest a couple of inches of wiggle room, so 62" clear. I don't factor in the hanging clothes [as knee and toe can extend under] but AHJ may have a different interpretation.


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## Yikes (Feb 11, 2022)

mark5211 said:


> I believe door maneuvering clearances are setting minimum size of WIC's under CBC chapter 11A. Suggest accommodating 60" turning circle nonetheless. Then it will be easier to reuse the unit outside of Cali for an ANSI type A. Also suggest a couple of inches of wiggle room, so 62" clear. I don't factor in the hanging clothes [as knee and toe can extend under] but AHJ may have a different interpretation.


Per CBC 1132A.5.1 (exception) and 1132A.5.2, those door clearances inside a closet in a private dwelling unit could be as little as 34" wide x 39" deep, depending on the door swing:


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## mark5211 (Feb 11, 2022)

If you actually want to put any clothes on the wall opposite the door, you'll need to add another 20" to the depth, and then you're at 59", and you might as well make it meet 60" clear for the turning circle. Just my 2 cents.


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## mark handler (Feb 12, 2022)

As stated before, not all spaces need to be accessible, not all the space in the closet need to be accessible, additional storage may be provided outside of the reach ranges


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## Yikes (Feb 14, 2022)

mark handler said:


> As stated before, not all spaces need to be accessible, not all the space in the closet need to be accessible, additional storage may be provided outside of the reach ranges


Mark, help me understand this.  In your post #7, you quoted 1127A.11.1 for closets, but 1127A is specifically for "Common Use Facilities".


The original post #1 said _"This question is about the interior of units, not community spaces."_

1128A-1136A addresses Div. IV "Dwelling Unit Features".  Where do you find dwelling unit storage (other than kitchen cabinets) addressed in Div. IV ?
I can't find it, except that 1130A.1 addresses an accessible route through "all rooms and spaces", without defining what constitutes a "space", or whether a closet can be considered a "room" or "space".
It does provide one exception for a route from a basement or garage, but I don't see other exceptions for closet reach in 11A covered multifamily dwellings.


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## mark handler (Feb 16, 2022)

Yikes said:


> Mark, help me understand this.  In your post #7, you quoted 1127A.11.1 for closets, but 1127A is specifically for "Common Use Facilities".
> View attachment 8575
> 
> The original post #1 said _"This question is about the interior of units, not community spaces."_
> ...


you are right


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## Yikes (Feb 16, 2022)

mark handler said:


> you are right


I was hoping I was wrong, because I'm still left with more questions than answers.  See end of post #8.


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## mark handler (Feb 17, 2022)

Yikes said:


> I was hoping I was wrong, because I'm still left with more questions than answers.  See end of post #8.


Refer to Sections R304 and R305 for Minimum Room Areas

*SPACE.* A definable area, such as, a room, toilet room, hall, assembly area, entrance, storage room, alcove, courtyard, or lobby.
Is the area in a cupboard a space? yes. can it be occupied, yes.

You need to assume the intent is  *ACCESSIBLE SPACE. [DSA-AC & HCD 1-AC]* A space that complies with the accessibility provisions of this code.


*And you need to common sense*


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## Yikes (Feb 17, 2022)

Mark, I agree 100%... except that my clients expect that our designs will be prescriptively lawsuit-proof, in a society where people make a living out of finding new ways to declare they've been discriminated against.  Common sense does not prevail in that kind of world.

Again, can the 11A code prescriptively tell us when a closet needs (1) an accessible route going "through" it, and (2) when the word "through" implies a turnaround, or whether travelling in reverse qualifies as travelling "through"?


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## mark handler (Feb 17, 2022)

Yikes said:


> Again, can the 11A code prescriptively tell us when a closet needs (1) an accessible route going "through" it, and (2) when the word "through" implies a turnaround, or whether travelling in reverse qualifies as travelling "through"?


No


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## womide (Feb 18, 2022)

mark handler said:


> *IMPO*
> A: What would be a decent walk-in for a small apartment with a 2' door.
> * If you want accessibility, cannot be "walk-in"*​B: Same as "A" with a 3' door. 48" push side clearance shown.
> *Closet can be as large as you want, roll-in back out. (C,D, and E)*​C: Same as "B" but with push side clearance moved outside the theoretical location of hanging clothes.
> ...


Such detailed information. Thanks a lot mark.


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## nealderidder (Feb 18, 2022)

Yikes said:


> Mark, I agree 100%... except that my clients expect that our designs will be prescriptively lawsuit-proof, in a society where people make a living out of finding new ways to declare they've been discriminated against.  Common sense does not prevail in that kind of world.
> 
> Again, can the 11A code prescriptively tell us when a closet needs (1) an accessible route going "through" it, and (2) when the word "through" implies a turnaround, or whether travelling in reverse qualifies as travelling "through"?


Agreed Yikes, just make the requirement clear. In the absence of clarity we're at the whim of the AHJ and then our clients say - "why didn't you know that?"


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## nealderidder (Feb 18, 2022)

mark handler said:


> Yes see attached


There it is. Certainly seems like something I could hang my hat on. That tells me I can do a 5' x 5' walk in closet. Thanks all for the great input.


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