# CSST training from Gastite



## jar546 (Nov 14, 2009)

After being on the list for over a year, the local plumbing supply house finally had the factory rep come in and provide CSST certification.

I have been familiar with the basics of installation and general requirments for bonding, terminations, etc.  I did, however learn a ton from this class that I can apply towards enforcement.  These guys are being taught the right way but now that I look back at the installations that I have seen, not many were installed IAW manufacturer's requirments.

Anyway, this class is recommended.  I was the only inspector in the class.


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## pyrguy (Nov 14, 2009)

Re: CSST training from Gastite

I was one of th first inspectors certified in the Atlanta metro area back when this stuff first came out.

Just like most stuff if it is installed right it's great. If not not so much. There is not a lot of room between right and not.


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## D a v e W (Nov 14, 2009)

Re: CSST training from Gastite

I agree, however have you ever asked to the installers certification? It is amazing that supply houses will sell this to unlicensed installers. It is classic, that is the look on there face because they do not have one. It's almost as red as the tag I leave! :mrgreen: The same applies for PEX piping as well, try it some time. Its priceless!


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##  (Nov 14, 2009)

Re: CSST training from Gastite

I always ask for a copy of the installers cert and a picture ID that matches.  On several occasions the contractor has opted to replace the CSST with iron pipe and not just because of the cert.  The required striker plates can be a real mess to install in an existing house.


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## RJJ (Nov 15, 2009)

Re: CSST training from Gastite

I would be interested in this training for my area! I had a contractor a short time back that indicated  that all his men had been to class and certified. When asked how they were bonding the gas a blank look came over him. He said that no mention of bonding was discussed in the training.

Education, Education, Education!


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## D a v e W (Nov 15, 2009)

Re: CSST training from Gastite

And we continue to move forward with education, thanks to inspector that actually look work done and ask simple questions.  :roll:


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##  (Nov 16, 2009)

Re: CSST training from Gastite

RJJ I would like to know what you require for gas pipe bonding.  Where I work, the AHJ has determined that the equipment ground of the circuit serving an appliance [FAU or clothes dryer] is allowed to be utilized as the means of bonding gas pipe.  This is permitted by the NEC but the NEC does not elaborate on how this shall be accomplished.  Currently, the connection of gas pipe to the appliance that is case grounded is all that is required with no individual bonding jumper.

I have never thought this was a good Idea but none of my arguments have convinced the powers that be to do otherwise.  We also allow a cord and plug to serve as the disconnect for a FAU.


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## cda (Nov 16, 2009)

Re: CSST training from Gastite

so who and what number do you call to attend the class or arrange it????


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## brat (Nov 16, 2009)

Re: CSST training from Gastite

We arranged it here through the local rep.  They actually flew two guys up from California for the training and it was all at no cost.  Heres; some contact info from the material:

website:  www.gastite.com

e-mail:  gastite@titeflex.com

phone:  800-662-0208


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## mtlogcabin (Nov 16, 2009)

Re: CSST training from Gastite

tiger do a google search of "csst gas bonding" and will get a real education on the why and how. It is a manufactures requirement as a result of a class action law suit.

Gas pipe (hard pipe) bonding is a different animal


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## RJJ (Nov 16, 2009)

Re: CSST training from Gastite

Tiger: I believe Mtlogcabin answered the question! Look at the new revised manufacturers instructions. I also believe that the 09 gas code has tried to address this. I have a copy some place and just took the class, but most was on the 06. I will see if I can find the section.


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##  (Nov 16, 2009)

Re: CSST training from Gastite

mtlogcabin,

Thanks.  I enjoy a day that teaches me something.


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## georgia plans exam (Nov 17, 2009)

Re: CSST training from Gastite

TracPipe Co. by Omega Flex makes a csst product that, according to thier installation manual, requires no additional bonding other than what would be required for rigid metal piping in NEC Section 250.104. It is called CounterStrike. See page 54.

http://www.tracpipe.com/trac/technical/ ... a_Flex.pdf

Hope the link works.

GPE


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##  (Nov 18, 2009)

Re: CSST training from Gastite

On a recent tract inspection I was handed an instruction booklet for the installation of CSST from a brand I hadn't been familiar with.  It was lacking in detail regarding protection of the pipe and the contractor had used generic dottie plates, the wrong clamps, kinked the pipe, etc.  I called the company and found that they have gone out of business and been taken over by Omega Flex.  So I called Omega Flex who assured me that their listing covered the pipe and we could use their installation booklet.  The contractor is certified by Omega Flex but since he had a crap set of instructions for the pipe he used, he threw it in like it was garden hose.  I'm not sure if he is evil or just dumb but I'm not happy with his company.


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## georgia plans exam (Nov 18, 2009)

Re: CSST training from Gastite

We had a guy from TracPipe at a recent meeting of our local inspectors association, the North West Georgia Inspectors Association. The guy put on an excellent presentation.

However, I wouldn't put a lot of faith in certification. At the end of the class, we took a 10 question test, of which the answers were given, and received our certification cards.

Very similar to a class I took last year from GasTite.

So, I have certificates of training in TracPipe and GasTite and have never installed a gas line in my life.

I know the installers are supposed to be certified, I'm just saying that that does not guarantee a good installation.

GPE


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##  (Nov 18, 2009)

Re: CSST training from Gastite

GPE,

I agree and have the certs also.  But at least there is the expectation that they have the booklet and can read.


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## georgia plans exam (Nov 19, 2009)

Re: CSST training from Gastite

Tiger,

Agreed.

GPE


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## beach (Nov 19, 2009)

Re: CSST training from Gastite

Funny, after reading this thread, I dug out my Gastite "Qualified Gastite Installer" card from 1998. The instructors came to our office and trained all the inspectors, good class.


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## Hearthman (Nov 26, 2009)

Re: CSST certification and proper installation

I have been certified in both Gastite and Trac Pipe for about 10 yrs now and have installed about a mile combined. I had to take a 3 hour training class to get my Gastite card, which was required to buy the product. About a yr. later, I took the self test from Omegaflex (Trac Pipe) and get certified through the mail. I had to present my card at the counter every time to buy flex or couplings. A few supply houses maintain this practice. Of course, when you're in there often enough, they remember you.

Sure there has been abuse and misuse with this product class----just as there is every day with black iron and copper. Properly applied, there is no increased incidence rate with this product than any other. Soft copper blows out from lightning, too. It's just not easy to identifiy the mfr. and it is an unlisted *material* compared to a listed product. Think of copper much like lumber or mortar. It has an ASTM std. for its mfr. but is not tested or listed as a *system*. It often does not carry readily identifiable markings so that precludes any litigation, esp. class action.

As to the bonding issue, this is an example of knee-jerk politics. The ASSumption is that installing a #6 AWG copper wire bonding directly to the point of entry will create equipotential voltage and that this does so better than the steel pipe the CSST may be connected to. This is all theoretical unproven technology. What's more, there has been No research into insulating these lines in proximity to grounding electrodes where arcing could occur. Suppose you required insulated standoffs at any point where CSST crosses a steel beam? This would very likely solve the problem. We have to install grommets where CSST penetrates an appliance cabinet so this would be just an extension of that philosophy.

It all boils down to proving what is sufficient by actual field experience and monitoring of loss data and the analysis of that data and findings compared to prerequisite testing of *anticipated* conditions prior to the product being placed in the stream of commerce. Some of this is driven by codes and stds. while some is driven by product liability litigation. As a mfr. you have a duty to make the product *reasonably* safe from hazards that are *reasonably* expected under the normal conditions of use. That does not mean Mil-Spec or NASA grade--it just means what can reasonably be anticipated. If a mfrs. buries their head in the sand over a field condition any fool could see, he is opening the door for litigation under the theory of Strict Liability.

Look, I agree there have been problems with this product. I investigated one such incident where lightning was determined to enter a factory built chimney attached to a factory built woodburning fireplace with listed vented gas logs attached directly to CSST. The load traveled about 30 ft. before it arced at the point the CSST crossed over a steel I-beam in the open basement. However, fire had ignited in the corner wall cavity about 8 ft. from the fireplace presumably by arcing from electrical cables that were routed through the Fp chase. The kid reported the fire in the wall first so they evacuated and waited on the Fire Dept. Right as the fire dept arrived, the leaking NG in the basement iginted a small fireball and burned briskly for a few mintues as the gas was shutoff and small handlines extinguished the blaze. The point is, there was ignition of the house first--the gas leaking exacerbated a pre-existing fire. The pin hole in the CSST was NOT the origin of the fire. Heck, there are a lot of accelerants stored in people's homes that can make what would have been a simple fire much more complex to control--I've been there as a fire fighter. I'm just asking for calm and reason instead of witch hunting.

The inescapable truths in all this mess are the need for better training, better trained inspectors that are allocated the time to properly inspect ALL gas piping and testing both for leaks and ground potential.

Off my soapbox,

Happy Thanksgiving,

Hearthman


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## jar546 (Dec 6, 2009)

Re: CSST training from Gastite

http://www.icc-es.org/reports/pdf_files/ICC-ES/ESR-1031.pdf


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## karmann33 (Dec 18, 2009)

Re: CSST training from Gastite

Our local plumbing supply house gave a class 2 months ago and I was the only inspector in that class.


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