# Existing Ceiling Heights Not Code Compliant



## fj80 (Dec 23, 2016)

I'm designing the renovation of an existing apartment building leasing center and fitness center that has some very low ceiling heights, the lowest at 6'-1". 

2012 IBC and 2012 IEBC. 

Since 2012 IBC 1208.2 requires minimum 7'-6" ceiling heights, if we're renovating these areas do we have to raise the ceilings to meet code?

Or is there any part of the Existing Building Code that says you can keep existing ceiling heights as they are? (This will qualify as a Level 2 Alteration.)


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## steveray (Dec 23, 2016)

When was the building built? Any codes at that time?


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## fj80 (Dec 23, 2016)

It was built in the 70's, in Washington DC. Don't know what the codes were then.


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## ICE (Dec 24, 2016)

Code or no code.....6'1" is ridiculous.


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## cda (Dec 24, 2016)

It's DC,   It will get a pardon.


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## Francis Vineyard (Dec 24, 2016)

For the work area method it can stay as is; alterations shall not lower the degree of safety in accordance with IEBC Section 701.2
The ceiling height could be 7 ft. in "new construction" to existing buildings; Ref. IEBC * 1103.1 & 801.3 exception 4*


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## steveray (Dec 27, 2016)

I would think DC would have  had a code in the 70's...That is what you really need to determine. If it was bootlegged, there is no such thing as grandfathered. It ALWAYS needs to comply with the code it was constructed to or better...


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## Francis Vineyard (Dec 27, 2016)

Property Maintenance Code if adopted and enforced (unamended);

*404.3 Minimum ceiling heights. *_Habitable spaces_, hallways, corridors, laundry areas, _bathrooms_, _toilet rooms _and habitable _basement _areas shall have a minimum clear ceiling height of 7 ft.
*Exceptions:*

1. In one- and two-family dwellings, beams or girders spaced a minimum of 4 ft. on center and projecting a maximum of 6 in. below the required ceiling height.

2. _Basement _rooms in one- and two-family dwellings occupied exclusively for laundry, study or recreation purposes, having a minimum ceiling height of 6 ft. 8 in. with a minimum clear height of 6 ft. 4 in.  under beams, girders, ducts and similar obstructions.

3. Rooms occupied exclusively for sleeping, study or similar purposes and having a sloped ceiling over all or part of the room, with a minimum clear ceiling height of 7 ft. over a minimum of one third of the required minimum floor area. In calculating the floor area of such rooms, only those portions of the floor area with a minimum clear ceiling height of 5 ft. shall be included.


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## fj80 (Dec 27, 2016)

Francis Vineyard said:


> For the work area method it can stay as is; alterations shall not lower the degree of safety in accordance with IEBC Section 701.2
> The ceiling height could be 7 ft. in "new construction" to existing buildings; Ref. IEBC * 1103.1 & 801.3 exception 4*


This is a Level 2 Alteration so I believe IEBC 701.2 does not apply because it's for Level 1 Alternations. IEBC 801.3 exception 4 says the minimum ceiling height shall be 7 feet. But I'm still wondering if there's any exception to that if we don't make any changes to the ceiling. Although I doubt it. Obviously raising the ceilings will be better, I'm just going to need to show the owner where the code requires it and that there are no exceptions that grandfather in the existing ceilings.


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## Francis Vineyard (Dec 27, 2016)

fj80 said:


> This is a Level 2 Alteration so I believe IEBC 701.2 does not apply because it's for Level 1 Alternations. IEBC 801.3 exception 4 says the minimum ceiling height shall be 7 feet. But I'm still wondering if there's any exception to that if we don't make any changes to the ceiling. Although I doubt it. Obviously raising the ceilings will be better, I'm just going to need to show the owner where the code requires it and that there are no exceptions that grandfather in the existing ceilings.



*801.2 Alteration Level 1 compliance. *In addition to the requirements of this chapter, all work shall comply with the requirements of Chapter 7.

"The code drafting committee decided to make reference to these chapters rather than repeat all such provisions again."

Note you don't go to the IBC unless the IEBC sends your there.


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## fj80 (Dec 27, 2016)

If Chapter 7 and Chapter 8 both apply for Level 2 Alternations, and 701.2 says you can leave the existing condition as it is, but 801.3 exception 4 says the minimum ceiling height of newly created spaces shall be 7 feet, then it would seem like the Chapter 8 requirement is more restrictive and therefore you'd need to adhere to the more restrictive of the two.


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## steveray (Dec 27, 2016)

fj80 said:


> If Chapter 7 and Chapter 8 both apply for Level 2 Alternations, and 701.2 says you can leave the existing condition as it is, but 801.3 exception 4 says the minimum ceiling height of newly created spaces shall be 7 feet, then it would seem like the Chapter 8 requirement is more restrictive and therefore you'd need to adhere to the more restrictive of the two.



Correct....The IEBC goes backwards. You do everything in the higher chapter and the lower chapter....


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## Francis Vineyard (Dec 27, 2016)

fj80, don't know the exent of your alterations however Section 801.3 applies only to "newly created habitable and occupiable spaces" inside of existing buildings for the ceiling height to be lower.

As a reminder the IBC Section 1208.2 has exceptions for lower ceiling heights (Ref. 701.2).


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## ADAguy (Dec 29, 2016)

Note AHJ for DC is the Senate last I checked. They have a lot of "short" members. Even Paul Reveres home in Boston has ceilings higher than 6'-6". Is this in a basement? Height is an ADA discrimination for "tall" empolyee's.
What of insurance claims? Local Fire allow low ceiling?


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## fj80 (Jan 3, 2017)

Francis Vineyard said:


> fj80, don't know the exent of your alterations however Section 801.3 applies only to "newly created habitable and occupiable spaces" inside of existing buildings for the ceiling height to be lower.
> 
> As a reminder the IBC Section 1208.2 has exceptions for lower ceiling heights (Ref. 701.2).


So if I'm renovating an existing space that means Section 801.3 doesn't apply? I wasn't sure if "newly created" meant a brand new addition to a building, or a new renovation to an existing space inside the building. My project is the latter.


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## Francis Vineyard (Jan 3, 2017)

fj80 said:


> So if I'm renovating an existing space that means Section 801.3 doesn't apply? I wasn't sure if "newly created" meant a brand new addition to a building, or a new renovation to an existing space inside the building. My project is the latter.



Correct; my interpretation of the exception to 801.3 is if converting a non-habitable or non-occupiable space to one of the two AND alterations (new construction) is being done to the ceiling for such conversion.

Note a (partial) change of occupancy usually does not require alterations unless the means of egress is to a higher degree of relative hazard in accordance to Section 1012.4

As a reminder the client is welcome to go above the minimum.

Edited misspellings


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