# Elevator vs. Lift



## DwightB (Oct 23, 2013)

IBC 1109.6 and 1109.7 define where elevators and lifts can be used.  What is the line between these two products?  There are lifts that will travel up to 17'.  There are lifts with walls and ceiling.  The only thing I can find that differentiates them is that a lift uses "press to operate" controls.

A rep at Garaventa says a lift is to be used by wheelchair users and assistant.  Does that mean a person with a walker or cane can't use it?  How about a healthy person who simply doesn't want to climb a 12' stairway?

I have a client who is adding 10,000 sf to a church (6,600 sf main level, 3,400 sf new lower level with stair and grade-level access) and wants to limit spending for wheelchair access to the lower floor to the price of a lift ($30K) instead of an elevator ($50-60K).  The lower level will include classrooms and restrooms.

I think 1109.7 won't allow a chair lift in this instance.


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## Coug Dad (Oct 23, 2013)

There are elevators, LULA's and lifts.  Lifts and LULA's are limited to where they can be used.


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## Msradell (Oct 24, 2013)

I don't have the information directly in front of me but I believe that Lifts and LULA's are not allowed in commercial applications.  That being said churches are exempt from ADA requirements anyway.


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## Rick18071 (Oct 24, 2013)

An elevator is in a shaft. If you need fire separation between the floors you will need a shaft. If you need fire separation for a vertical exit you need a shaft. Never saw a lift used to go a whole story. How many wheel chairs can you put on a lift if they need to get out quickly.

Churches may be exempt from ADA but not ICC-A117.1


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## DwightB (Oct 24, 2013)

IBC 1104.4 Multilevel buildings and facilities. At least one accessible route shall connect each accessible level, including mezzanines, in multilevel buildings and facilities.  This has nothing to do with ADA.  Yes, it is a church and it is ADA-exempt, but 1104.4 demands and accessible route connecting levels.  Rick, that's why a ramp would be better in any situation, no "cargo capacity" all wheelchairs could use it all the time, without electricity.  It just takes 'way to much space to go 12' vertical.


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## Msradell (Oct 25, 2013)

By reading your original post it sounds like both levels have outside access so each one of them has an accessible route as an emergency exit without using the elevator/lift.


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## Builder Bob (Oct 25, 2013)

Msradell said:
			
		

> By reading your original post it sounds like both levels have outside access so each one of them has an accessible route as an emergency exit without using the elevator/lift.


This is still being discriminatory to people with disabilities..... the only way this would not be discriminatory is if everybody has to go outside to walk around the building to go to the second floor.


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## ADAguy (Oct 25, 2013)

I haven't heard anyone mention the gurney requirement?


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## Msradell (Oct 26, 2013)

Builder Bob said:
			
		

> This is still being discriminatory to people with disabilities..... the only way this would not be discriminatory is if everybody has to go outside to walk around the building to go to the second floor.


I was only bringing that up in regards to accessible exit routes in the possible need for multiple people to be in the elevator/lift at one time!  Being disabled I certainly agree inside route between the 2 floors is required but it doesn't necessarily be in accessible exit route.


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## Francis Vineyard (Oct 26, 2013)

Where (accessible means of egress) interior stairs are provided the lift is the required interior accessible route to and from a private educational facility not opened to the general public.

The new addition shall have an accessible means of egress in accordpance with section 1007. Chapter 10 - Means of Egress

*1109.7 Lifts.* Platform (wheelchair) lifts are permitted to be a part of a required _accessible route_ in new construction where indicated in Items 1 through 10. Platform (wheelchair) lifts shall be installed in accordance with ASME A18.1.

1. An _accessible route_ to a performing area and speaker platforms in Group A occupancies.

2. An _accessible route_ to _wheelchair spaces_ required to comply with the _wheelchair space_ dispersion requirements of :Next('./icod_ibc_2009_11_par114.htm')'>Sections 1108.2.2 through :Next('./icod_ibc_2009_11_par122.htm')'>1108.2.6.

3. An _accessible route_ to spaces that are not open to the general public with an _occupant load_ of not more than five.

4. An _accessible route_ within a _dwelling_ or _sleeping unit_.

5. An _accessible route_ to wheelchair seating spaces located in outdoor dining terraces in Group A-5 occupancies where the _means of egress_ from the dining terraces to a _public way_ are open to the outdoors.

6. An _accessible route_ to jury boxes and witness stands; raised courtroom stations including judges' benches, clerks' stations, bailiffs' stations, deputy clerks' stations and court reporters' stations; and to depressed areas such as the well of the court.

7. An _accessible route_ to load and unload areas serving amusement rides.

8. An _accessible route_ to play components or soft contained play structures.

9. An _accessible route_ to team or player seating areas serving areas of sport activity.


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## Francis Vineyard (Oct 28, 2013)

Edit; broken link above:

Commentary Chapter 10: http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/ibc/2009f2cc/icod_ibc_2009f2cc_10_sec007.htm

"Item 3 specifies that a platform lift may be used to provide access to a nonpublic area with five or less occupants, such as a projection booth.

Note that a platform lift that was not part of the required accessible route could be used to facilitate access to any space. The governing factor in those situations would be the limitations of the product itself for capacity and travel distance."

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/ibc/2009f2cc/icod_ibc_2009f2cc_11_sec009.htm


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## DwightB (Oct 28, 2013)

ADAguy: Where is the "gurney requirement"?  This is a church.


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## mark handler (Oct 28, 2013)

IBC 2009

3002.4 Elevator car to accommodate ambulance stretcher. Where elevators are provided in buildings four or more stories above, or four or more stories below, grade plane, at least one elevator shall be provided for fire department emergency access to all floors. The elevator car shall be of such a size and arrangement to accommodate an ambulance stretcher 24 inches by 84 inches with not less than 5-inch radius corners, in the horizontal, open position and shall be identified by the international symbol for emergency medical services (star of life). The symbol shall not be less than 3 inches high and shall be placed inside on both sides of the hoistway door frame.

*Different in CA*

3002.4a General Stretcher Requirements. All buildings and structures with one or more passenger service elevators shall be provided with not less than one medical emergency service elevator to all landings meeting the provisions of Section 3002.4a.


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## DwightB (Oct 28, 2013)

Ok, this is an AR project, so 2 floors doesn't trigger this requirement.


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## mark handler (Oct 28, 2013)

DwightB said:
			
		

> Ok, this is an AR project, so 2 floors doesn't trigger this requirement.


That's why I listed Both....


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