# Permit required?



## Rick Savala (Oct 9, 2019)

Good morning. I am a mechanical inspector in VA. Recently a question has come up regarding necessity for a permit. The contractor is replacing an oil furnace with an air handler. Same location, existing duct system. We require permits to change out  gas/oil equipment like for like, but do not require a permit to remove a furnace to put in an air handler. Just curious to see how this situation is handled in other places.  Thanks.


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## Rick Savala (Oct 9, 2019)

This is a residential application


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## cda (Oct 9, 2019)

Welcome,,

How did you find our humble forum??

Give it a day or two for replies


I am thinking most cities would require a permit, electrical,, and maybe other involved in the change,

Plus it would kick in an inspection requirement.


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## fatboy (Oct 9, 2019)

We would require a permit, N Colorado.


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 9, 2019)

Define air handler?
I assume the "air handler" produces heat to replace the loss of heat from removing the furnace.
Is it fuel by gas or electric. Do you need to run new gas and vents or a new branch circuit for the electric strip heater?

A permit would be required here in Montana and we will combine the electrical into the mechanical permit to keep the fees down provided it is a licensed electrical contractor subbing to the mechanical contractor doing the work.


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## ADAguy (Oct 9, 2019)

Here we go with "regional" semantics again, as above please define air handler?
Also, where is it located: basement, garage, closet, attic?


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## classicT (Oct 9, 2019)

We would require a permit.


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## Paul Sweet (Oct 9, 2019)

Virginia Residential Code 108.1.1(vii) requires a permit for mechanical systems.

https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/VRC2015P2/chapter-1-administration

What is the heat source?  Most air handlers have electric heat, so that would require an electrical permit.


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## Rick Savala (Oct 9, 2019)

Thanks for the replies. They will be replacing an oil furnace with an electric a/h with backup heat strips. They definitely need an electrical permit for the upgraded circuit, but do they need a mechanical permit to remove the furnace?


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## Rick Savala (Oct 9, 2019)

Paul Sweet said:


> Virginia Residential Code 108.1.1(vii) requires a permit for mechanical systems.
> 
> https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/VRC2015P2/chapter-1-administration
> 
> What is the heat source?  Most air handlers have electric heat, so that would require an electrical permit.


Electric


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## Rick Savala (Oct 9, 2019)

ADAguy said:


> Here we go with "regional" semantics again, as above please define air handler?
> Also, where is it located: basement, garage, closet, attic?


Garage


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## Rick Savala (Oct 9, 2019)

mtlogcabin said:


> Define air handler?
> I assume the "air handler" produces heat to replace the loss of heat from removing the furnace.
> Is it fuel by gas or electric. Do you need to run new gas and vents or a new branch circuit for the electric strip heater?
> 
> A permit would be required here in Montana and we will combine the electrical into the mechanical permit to keep the fees down provided it is a licensed electrical contractor subbing to the mechanical contractor doing the work.


New circuit, but no new fuel lines.


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## Rick Savala (Oct 9, 2019)

cda said:


> Welcome,,
> 
> How did you find our humble forum??
> 
> ...


Thanks. I found this forum while searching the web for building codes.


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## steveray (Oct 9, 2019)

Different equipment...Permit here in CT


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 9, 2019)

Rick Savala said:


> but do they need a mechanical permit to remove the furnace?


 No permit required to remove an appliance


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## mark handler (Oct 9, 2019)

We would require a permit, CA.


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## mark handler (Oct 9, 2019)

mtlogcabin said:


> Define air handler?
> .


An _air handler_ is usually a large metal box containing a blower, heating or cooling elements, filter racks or chambers, sound attenuators, and dampers. _Air handlers_ usually connect to a ductwork ventilation system that distributes the conditioned air through the building and returns it to the AHU.


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## mark handler (Oct 9, 2019)

ADAguy said:


> please define air handler?


An _air handler_ is usually a large metal box containing a blower, heating or cooling elements, filter racks or chambers, sound attenuators, and dampers. _Air handlers_ usually connect to a ductwork ventilation system that distributes the conditioned air through the building and returns it to the AHU.


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## ADAguy (Oct 9, 2019)

mtlogcabin said:


> No permit required to remove an appliance



It becomes refuse and may be subject to haz mat disposal requirements.


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 9, 2019)

Being an HVAC guy for 17 years I know an "air handler" can be as simple as a coil and blower that only requires 120 volts or it can also have an electric strip heater requiring 240 volts because the old reverse cycle AC did not work well below 50 degrees and heat pumps need an alternate source when it gets below 25 or 30 degrees.

I should have been more specific and asked what the heat source in the air handler was going to be.


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## ADAguy (Oct 9, 2019)

Your forgiven, bless you.


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## rgrace (Oct 10, 2019)

In my part of Virginia, this would require an electrical and a mechanical permit. Electrical because the load will increase when you add the heat strip and mechanical because this unit's dynamics have changed completely. Is the new blower and heat strip sufficiently sized for the existing load demand of the house? Need an HVAC guy for that. Of course a homeowner is permitted to do the work and pull the permit, but that's a different topic altogether. I would suggest to a homeowner to contract the services of a licensed professional.

Nobody has asked about an outdoor unit. What's happening with that? Is there no outdoor unit, no air conditioning? That would simplify things. I am not an HVAC expert, only a code geek and master electrician, so I will rely on mtlogcabin to provide compatibility requirements* if* there is an existing outdoor unit.

Also, is there a fuel oil tank associated with the project that will be abandoned or removed? A fire permit may be required fo? See this page for more detail (didn't want to spend time deciphering where all this is in the Fire Prevention Code, this was easier)  https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/landdevelopment/fuel-storage-tanks


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## cda (Oct 10, 2019)

Rick Savala said:


> Thanks. I found this forum while searching the web for building codes.




Well Welcome again..

Keep on posting any questions.

And Please post comments on anything


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## Rick18071 (Oct 10, 2019)

In PA you only need a permit if you are doing something structural in a house unless there is a local ordinance.


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## rgrace (Oct 10, 2019)

Rick18071 said:


> In PA you only need a permit if you are doing something structural in a house unless there is a local ordinance.



Wow, really? I think I know where I'm going when I retire


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## Rick18071 (Oct 10, 2019)

Inspected where they had a permit for a beam in a house where they had everything stripped out but the studs and floors. I only inspected the beam.


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## John Callaghan (Jul 22, 2020)

I think we would require a permit with an air handler.


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## ADAguy (Jul 22, 2020)

Energy efficiency concerns in your local code?


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