# Is store owner required to maintain parking lot



## ckc189 (Jan 14, 2022)

I can not find any codes that require a parking lot to be maintained. There is a 6" drop off between the asphalt and the gravel where the gravel has eroded and there have been complaints. I am in florida. Any help will be appreciated. This area is not between the handicap parking spot and the entrance to the building, so I dont know what it would fall under. There is a tire pump in the area if it makes a difference. Thanks.


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## classicT (Jan 14, 2022)

Maintenance is up to the lease agreement, not the building codes. You will need to check into what your lease says.


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## ckc189 (Jan 14, 2022)

classicT said:


> Maintenance is up to the lease agreement, not the building codes. You will need to check into what your lease says.


I know there are other references throughout the building code like maintaining the same level of accessibility or means of egress, so I was wondering if there is something similar for a parking lot. I don't think it falls into an accessible area or a means of egress though.


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## classicT (Jan 14, 2022)

ckc189 said:


> I know there are other references throughout the building code like maintaining the same level of accessibility or means of egress, so I was wondering if there is something similar for a parking lot. I don't think it falls into an accessible area or a means of egress though.


Correct, if not a means of egress or an accessible feature, the building code does not prescribe maintenance. If locally adopted, the IPMC may say something.


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## e hilton (Jan 14, 2022)

Sounds like the asphalt is the parking area and the gravel is the driveway.  As long as the parking area is reasonably level and safe, you are going to have a hard time forcing the owner to fix the offset.  Start by calling code enforcement in the town.


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## ckc189 (Jan 14, 2022)

e hilton said:


> Sounds like the asphalt is the parking area and the gravel is the driveway.  As long as the parking area is reasonably level and safe, you are going to have a hard time forcing the owner to fix the offset.  Start by calling code enforcement in the town.


Not really, it separates a gravel parking area in the back from an asphalt parking area in the front. It is a trip hazard in my opinion because they know people are walking by there, I just dont have a code to back it up


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## Joe.B (Jan 14, 2022)

e hilton said:


> Start by calling code enforcement in the town.





classicT said:


> If locally adopted, the IPMC may say something.





ckc189 said:


> references throughout the building code



The building code is really designed to regulate construction. Once a building is complete then it passes to other regulations. Each local municipality has certain codes adopted, and so does each state. If you're not able to get answers from your local jurisdiction the next step is to do some internet research to see what codes are applicable in your area. As mentioned, IPMC 302.3, if your locality has adopted it.


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## jar546 (Jan 14, 2022)

Most local jurisdictions & counties have property maintenance ordinances in Florida.
If this affects accessibility under the ADA then the DOJ comes into play.


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## bill1952 (Jan 14, 2022)

It would seem worth determining if ownership of both is the same or different.

Does anyone using the egress from the building have to walk across that to get to the public way?


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## e hilton (Jan 14, 2022)

ckc189 said:


> Not really, it separates a gravel parking area in the back from an asphalt parking area in the front.


Ok, so part of the parking area is asphalt, the owner is going to tell you that area is for people who need a smooth surface.  The gravel parking area … it really isn’5 any different than parking on the grass at a county fair, or overflow parking at a nascar track.


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## Jean Tessmer-HI (Jan 14, 2022)

ckc189 said:


> I can not find any codes that require a parking lot to be maintained. There is a 6" drop off between the asphalt and the gravel where the gravel has eroded and there have been complaints. I am in florida. Any help will be appreciated. This area is not between the handicap parking spot and the entrance to the building, so I dont know what it would fall under. There is a tire pump in the area if it makes a difference. Thanks.


From the 2010 -DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE-28 CFR Part 36 [CRT Docket No. 106; AG Order No. 3181–2010]
RIN 1190–AA44 Nondiscrimination on the Basis of Disability by Public Accommodations and in Commercial Facilities-AGENCY: Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division.
ACTION: Final rule.
*§ 36.211 Maintenance of accessible features.*
(a) A public accommodation shall maintain in operable working condition those features of facilities and equipment that are required to be readily accessible to and usable by persons with disabilities by the Act or this part.

Other references in the 2010 ADA Standard.  
*Advisory 407.1 General. *The ADA and other Federal civil rights laws require that accessible features be maintained in working order so that they are accessible to and usable by those people they are intended to benefit. Building owners should note that the ASME Safety Code for Elevators and Escalators requires routine maintenance and inspections. Isolated or temporary interruptions in service due to maintenance or repairs may be unavoidable; however, failure to take prompt action to effect repairs could constitute a violation of Federal laws and these requirements.
*Advisory 1008.2.6 Ground Surfaces.* Ground surfaces must be inspected and maintained regularly to ensure continued compliance with the ASTM F 1951 standard. The type of surface material selected and play area use levels will determine the frequency of inspection and maintenance activities.
*405.8 Handrails. *Ramp runs with a rise greater than 6 inches (150 mm) shall have handrails complying with 505.EXCEPTION: Within employee work areas, handrails shall not be required where ramps that are part of common use circulation paths are designed to permit the installation of handrails complying with 505. Ramps not subject to the exception to 405.5 shall be designed to maintain a 36 inch (915 mm) minimum clear width when handrails are installed.
*From Page 55 Guidance on the 2010 Standard DOJ* - 
In those cases, it may be the case that the facility has an obligation to meet the alterations or barrier removal requirements
or to* maintain accessible features.*


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## Jean Tessmer-HI (Jan 14, 2022)

FYI -* 36.211 Maintenance of accessible features* is from the-Title III Regulations Revised Final Title III Regulation with Integrated Text


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## ADAguy (Jan 18, 2022)

Jean Tessmer-HI said:


> From the 2010 -DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE-28 CFR Part 36 [CRT Docket No. 106; AG Order No. 3181–2010]
> RIN 1190–AA44 Nondiscrimination on the Basis of Disability by Public Accommodations and in Commercial Facilities-AGENCY: Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division.
> ACTION: Final rule.
> *§ 36.211 Maintenance of accessible features.*
> ...


Spot on!  Jean


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## ckc189 (Feb 2, 2022)

Jean Tessmer-HI said:


> From the 2010 -DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE-28 CFR Part 36 [CRT Docket No. 106; AG Order No. 3181–2010]
> RIN 1190–AA44 Nondiscrimination on the Basis of Disability by Public Accommodations and in Commercial Facilities-AGENCY: Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division.
> ACTION: Final rule.
> *§ 36.211 Maintenance of accessible features.*
> ...


This is great Jean, thanks! 

Do you know whether an air pump (tire pump) would be required to be readily accessible?


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## Pcinspector1 (Feb 2, 2022)

ckc189 said:


> Do you know whether an air pump (tire pump) would be required to be readily accessible?


If provided for public use, I'd think s it would need to be accessible.


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## e hilton (Feb 2, 2022)

ckc189 said:


> This is great Jean, thanks!
> 
> Do you know whether an air pump (tire pump) would be required to be readily accessible?


If i was the landlord and you demanded that they make the tire pump accessible, after you complained about a gravel road, i would remove the pump completely.


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## ckc189 (Feb 2, 2022)

e hilton said:


> If i was the landlord and you demanded that they make the tire pump accessible, after you complained about a gravel road, i would remove the pump completely.


Lol not what I'm doing! Someone got injured on a big change in level that was by the air pump, and I'm just trying to do some research on it


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## e hilton (Feb 3, 2022)

ckc189 said:


> Lol not what I'm doing! Someone got injured on a big change in level that was by the air pump, and I'm just trying to do some research on it


What is your role?  Are you a relative of the injured party?  Are you involved with the ownership or maintenance of the property?


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## mark handler (Feb 3, 2022)

*Very Clear In CA
*
11B-108 Maintenance of Accessible Features
A public accommodation shall maintain in operable working condition those features of facilities and equipment that are required to be accessible to and useable by persons with disabilities. Isolated or temporary interruptions in service or accessibility due to maintenance or repairs shall be permitt
11B-1008.2.6.1 Accessibility
Ground surfaces shall comply with ASTM F1951. Ground surfaces shall be inspected and maintained regularly and frequently to ensure continued compliance with ASTM F1951.


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## Jean Tessmer-HI (Feb 3, 2022)

According to the US Access Board the vehicle Air and Water conveniece components  "Since these are provided for public use, they would need to comply as operable parts (309), like the gas pumps."  "section 309.4 of the 2010 Standards exempts gas pump nozzles, but only from the technical requirement for activating force."  More...from this link-https://www.ada.gov/gasbrief.htm

The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) requires gas stations to provide equal access for their customers with disabilities. If necessary to provide access, stations must —





> Provide refueling assistance upon the request of an individual with a disability. A service station or convenience store is not required to provide such service at any time that it is operating on a remote control basis with a single employee, but is encouraged to do so, if feasible.





> Let customers know (e.g., using signs or notification on or near pumps) that individuals with disabilities can obtain refueling assistance by honking their horn or otherwise signaling an employee). Some stations provide a call button.





> *A pump may have a button to notify the attendant that assistance is needed.*





> Provide the refueling assistance without any charge beyond the self-serve price, if the customer wants only fuel. The attendant may provide assistance at a self-service pump or at a full-service pump. In either case, the customer must be charged the self-service price.











If you have additional questions concerning the ADA and gas stations, please call the Department of Justice’s ADA Information Line at (800) 514-0301 (voice) or (800) 514-0383 (TTY) or visit the ADA Business Connection on the ADA web site at ada.gov.

Duplication is encouraged. June 2002



>


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## Jean Tessmer-HI (Feb 3, 2022)

e hilton said:


> If i was the landlord and you demanded that they make the tire pump accessible, after you complained about a gravel road, i would remove the pump completely.


Probably should have started a completely different thread for this question.  sorry I did not.


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## Jean Tessmer-HI (Feb 3, 2022)

Since the Access board is saying that gas nozzle operations is what you would use for vehicle Air and Water dispensing see this link: https://www.access-board.gov/ada/guides/chapter-3-operable-parts/ - Fuel dispensers have an exemption and can *be 54" AFF.*
Side Reach​
[§308.3]

The range for side reach, like forward reach is 15″ to 48″ if unobstructed. The maximum reach depth for this range is 10″ measured from the available clear floor space.






Fuel Dispensers​

The operable parts of fuel dispensers located on existing curbs can be up t*o 54″ high.*


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## ADAguy (Feb 3, 2022)

The issue seems to be a trip and fall no?
As noted and depending on the lease language, the land lord may be responsible for grounds and the tenant for the interior, however as a service station the service offered involves the patrons driving across the exterior surfaces so it may be a negotiable issue.


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## e hilton (Feb 4, 2022)

ADAguy said:


> the service offered involves the patrons driving across the exterior surfaces so it may be a negotiable issue.


I think we are now assuming it is a gas station, i don’t think that was ever noted by the OP.  

But … going back to the beginning, i think the issue is not the area immediately around the gas pumps (assuming that's what they are) but rather there seems to be a gravel drive that leads to a concrete pad, and the transition from gravel to concrete is rough.  Unfortunately, it seems to me the OP is withholding details, trying to phrase the questions in his favor.  I think he has a beef with the owner of the property and he is digging deep to find backup for his position.


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## Genduct (Feb 5, 2022)

Jean Tessmer-HI said:


> Probably should have started a completely different thread for this question.  sorry I did not.


Seems like 2 questions
#1 Should the area be maintained for safe use as per Codes?  Well Of Course,  Yes!
#2 Who is the responsible PArty  Tenant or Landlord?  That has to do withthe Lease And the Code Official needs to get both of them together so the AHJ can cite the Responsible Party


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## bill1952 (Feb 5, 2022)

Even if it's the tenant who is responsible by terms of the lease agreement, isn't it up to owner to enforce those terms? Does the building official or ahj enforce the terms of the lease?  And is there any way to place a lien on a tenant? I may have missed it in reading codes but it seems "owner or the owner’s authorized agent" was responsible for the building.  Was surprised and just trying to understand.  Probably why building officials/ahjs seem to have a lawyer available.


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## Jean Tessmer-HI (Feb 5, 2022)

Jean Tessmer-HI said:


> From the 2010 -DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE-28 CFR Part 36 [CRT Docket No. 106; AG Order No. 3181–2010]
> RIN 1190–AA44 Nondiscrimination on the Basis of Disability by Public Accommodations and in Commercial Facilities-AGENCY: Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division.
> ACTION: Final rule.
> *§ 36.211 Maintenance of accessible features.*
> ...


Hi Richard,
How are you doing! Jean T.


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## e hilton (Feb 5, 2022)

bill1952 said:


> , isn't it up to owner to enforce those terms? And is there any way to place a lien on a tenant?


Assume the ahj issues a citation for unsafe condition, and issues it to the owner.  If the lease says the tenant shall maintain etc, then the owner sends a formal notice to the tenant that they are in default of the terms of the lease, and per paragraph xx.yy you have 30 days to correct or else the owner shall exercise all provisions in the lease to clear the citation.  Which could include locking the doors on day 31.


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## bill1952 (Feb 5, 2022)

e hilton said:


> Assume the ahj issues a citation for unsafe condition, and issues it to the owner.  If the lease says the tenant shall maintain etc, then the owner sends a formal notice to the tenant that they are in default of the terms of the lease, and per paragraph xx.yy you have 30 days to correct or else the owner shall exercise all provisions in the lease to clear the citation.  Which could include locking the doors on day 31.


That's what I would think, at least the concept of not the timing, and was confused by


Genduct said:


> That has to do withthe Lease And the Code Official needs to get both of them together so the AHJ can cite the Responsible Party


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## Genduct (Feb 5, 2022)

bill1952 said:


> Even if it's the tenant who is responsible by terms of the lease agreement, isn't it up to owner to enforce those terms? Does the building official or ahj enforce the terms of the lease?  And is there any way to place a lien on a tenant? I may have missed it in reading codes but it seems "owner or the owner’s authorized agent" was responsible for the building.  Was surprised and just trying to understand.  Probably why building officials/ahjs seem to have a lawyer available.


I believe Code Officials have a responibility to cite the RESPONSIBLE PARTY,  Not just the Convient Party


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## e hilton (Feb 6, 2022)

bill1952 said:


> That's what I would think, at least the concept of not the timing, and was confused by


_“ That has to do withthe Lease And the Code Official needs to get both of them together so the AHJ can cite the Responsible Party”_

It’s not the code officials responsibility to track down the tenant and review the lease.  His role stops when he cites the property owner, or the person pulling the permit if there is one.


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## Genduct (Feb 6, 2022)

"
It’s not the code officials responsibility to track down the tenant and review the lease. His role stops when he cites the property owner, or the person pulling the permit if there is one.


e hilton is correct BUT I don't think we should be getting ourselves in the middle of Civil Matters.

Also imediatly citing the Owner, although convient, does nothing to enhance our staus as Safety people,  only someone who is contributing to the Tax base with Fines to whoever isconvient

So, would it really hurt to go the extra step and prove it is safety and not revenue we are after?


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## ADAguy (Feb 9, 2022)

here the line in the sand is irregular, it "depends" on who the issue is raised by and their authority to resolve it.


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## Genduct (Feb 9, 2022)

I just re read the original message and the thoughtful remarks by others

Seems like I was fixed on the "Issue A Violation remark.  It seems like it would be a little heavy handed to issue a violation, it does seem that a formal note (if not a notice) that the height difference of the Blacktop with the gravel base might be a trip hazard and the ENCOURAGE the owner to address it would strike the right balance.

My favorite line is we need to Apply and Not Inflict the Code.  The Public's opinion of our Job should be important to us.  We should be seen as the Public Safety People that we are

IMHO,  Mike


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