# All or none need to be up to code?



## SOG NJ (May 7, 2018)

I have an attic in NJ (and the house to go with it).  It currently has a pulldown staircase that is totally up to code.  I would like to add a 2nd staircase, without altering the original.  Due to lack of space, I want the 2nd staircase to have a rise larger than allowed by local code.  I understand this would be a violation if it were the only staircase, but since I have the one up to code, does the 2nd one matter at all?  Can I just not call it a staircase (since legally it isnt one).

Talked to 3 builders in town, and got 3 different answers (yes, no, and maybe).

Thanks


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## TheCommish (May 7, 2018)

Pull down stairs are for  occasional access, if you want  to make the attic a room, besides meeting the room requirements, the stairs have to meet current  code


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## steveray (May 7, 2018)

If it is just "attic" access, do whatever you want, if it is habitable space (room), the stairs will have to meet egress requirements...


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## mark handler (May 7, 2018)

YES
ALL stairs shall meet egress requirements.


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## SOG NJ (May 7, 2018)

mark handler said:


> YES
> ALL stairs shall meet egress requirements.



Yes, this is why I am asking, BUT if the area is just storage, are there any egress requirements?


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## steveray (May 7, 2018)

ATTIC. The unfinished space between the ceiling assembly
of the top story and the roof assembly.

Is it an ATTIC or not?


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## SOG NJ (May 7, 2018)

Yes, it is an ATTIC as stated in the original question.  I am confused why you are asking.


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## steveray (May 7, 2018)

Call it a ladder then, not a stair and play through....


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## JBI (May 7, 2018)

If you build a fixed stairway it must meet all code requirements for stairs.
If you add another pull down stair it will be up to the local Code Official to determine what is required. 
Contractors can only offer opinions that are not binding on the jurisdiction.
Always ask the regulatOR not the regulatED.


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## Pcinspector1 (May 7, 2018)

Does the new location meet the headroom requirement of 30-inches of vertical height? 
*See IRC R807.

As a BO I want you to climb the correct code compliant stairs and whoever else goes up that stairway. 

A firefight may have to enter that attic, will you have a sticker that sez: "Hey firefighter use the code compliant attic access stairway down the hall!


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## mark handler (May 7, 2018)

Per the Residential Code
There is no code exemption for attic stairs.
If you build it, it shall comply.


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## Francis Vineyard (May 7, 2018)

The requirement for attic floor Live Load increases to 30 psf provided with fixed stairs in accordance to Section (Table) R301.5


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## mtlogcabin (May 7, 2018)

steveray said:


> ATTIC. The unfinished space between the ceiling assembly
> of the top story and the roof assembly.
> 
> Is it an ATTIC or not?




2018 IRC

[RB] ATTIC. The unfinished space between the ceiling assembly and the roof assembly.

[RB] ATTIC, HABITABLE. A finished or unfinished habitable space within an attic.


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## SOG NJ (May 7, 2018)

I agree that stairs have to be up to code, but if I build something that is not up to "stairs code" are they still stairs?


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## JBI (May 7, 2018)

SOG NJ said:


> I agree that stairs have to be up to code, but if I build something that is not up to "stairs code" are they still stairs?



If you build something that does not meet Code it is simply a violation. (at least that's what I'd call it if it were in my jurisdiction...)


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## Pcinspector1 (May 7, 2018)

SOG NJ said:


> I agree that stairs have to be up to code, but if I build something that is not up to "stairs code" are they still stairs?



No, that would be called a "possible liability!" more injury's happen on stairs than any place else in the home.


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## steveray (May 7, 2018)

Call it a ladder and play through....


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## ADAguy (May 7, 2018)

Ever heard of a "ships ladder"? That is what a "pull-down stair" is.


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## mark handler (May 8, 2018)

ADAguy said:


> That is what a "pull-down stair" is.


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## mark handler (May 8, 2018)

ADAguy said:


> Ever heard of a "ships ladder"?


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## JCraver (May 8, 2018)

steveray said:


> Call it a ladder then, not a stair and play through....





steveray said:


> Call it a ladder and play through....




Steve has the correct answer here.  He even gave it to you twice!!


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## mark handler (May 8, 2018)

IRC 311.7 Treads of Ships Ladders
Ships ladders shall have a minimum tread depth of 5 inches.
The tread shall be projected such that the total of the tread depth plus the nosing projection is not less than 8 1/2 inches.
The maximum riser height shall be 9 1/2 inches.


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## rogerpa (May 8, 2018)

Pcinspector1 said:


> No, that would be called a "possible liability!" more injury's happen on stairs than any place else in the home.



Not exactly.
If you combine injuries on floors and rugs you get more injuries than stairs despite the fact that stair statistics include such injuries as: the young boy jumped down the last several steps and injuried his ankle upon landing on the floor; or the house guest that got up in the night without turning on the light and mistook the basement door for the bathroom door. The irony in the numbers is that as code compliant stairs increased so did stair injuries.
http://rogers-codecorner.blogspot.com/2018/05/stair-injuries_8.html


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## Francis Vineyard (May 8, 2018)

JCraver said:


> Steve has the correct answer here.  He even gave it to you twice!!


Add a slide if they are still not convinced:


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## ADAguy (May 8, 2018)

Love it, in spite of the omitted handrails and lack of a level landing


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## JBI (May 8, 2018)

Francis Vineyard said:


> Add a slide if they are still not convinced:
> View attachment 2858
> 
> View attachment 2859


And this is why we can't have nice things... LOL


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## Francis Vineyard (May 8, 2018)

JBI, and it's worth it


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## fatboy (May 8, 2018)

Sorry, I'm with the "call it a ladder" folks.......if it were habitable space...different story.


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## Rick18071 (May 10, 2018)

just put some plants on it and call it a plant stand.


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