# Trace wire conundrum



## MASSDRIVER (Sep 27, 2013)

You fellers may find this interesting.

On a remodel I framed a new water service was run in PVC. Inspection was today and the GC asked me to pull off what I was doing and stand the service inspection. We failed because there was no trace wire on the pipe. No big deal, Inspectigator says the code requirement is relatively new and commonly missed. Then he says the technical requirement is an 18 ga. wire minimum IIRC, it has to be blue, and rated for direct burial. Then he tells me don't bother looking for that because it does not exist. I asked if grey is close enough to blue. After a laugh and his story about bringing this up at a round table with his mafia, ...I mean peers, he said regular blue sheathed wire would suffice.

Laughed too as the requirement for yellow wire for gas is no longer a color requirement.

Any thoughts?

Brent.


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## Rider Rick (Sep 27, 2013)

Brent,

You want to be able to locate the water service at a later date. So anything that would make that job easier would work.

Tracer tape also works.


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## MASSDRIVER (Sep 27, 2013)

Rider Rick said:
			
		

> Brent,You want to be able to locate the water service at a later date. So anything that would make that job easier would work.
> 
> Tracer tape also works.


Do you happen to know what the actual code requirement is? Apparently, according to the inspector, it calls for a blue direct burial wire, something that does not exist.

Brent.


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## ICE (Sep 27, 2013)

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> Inspectigator says the code requirement is relatively new and commonly missed.


It's so new that I've never heard this before now.

604.8 Approved plastic materials shall be permitted to be used

in water service piping, provided that where metal water service

piping is used for electrical grounding purposes, replacement

piping therefore shall be of like materials.

Exception: Where a grounding system acceptable to the Authority

Having Jurisdiction is installed, inspected, and approved,

metallic pipe shall be permitted to be replaced with

nonmetallic pipe. Plastic materials for water service piping outside

underground *shall have a blue insulated copper tracer wire*

or other approved conductor installed adjacent to the piping.

Access shall be provided to the tracer wire or the tracer wire

shall terminate above ground at each end of the nonmetallic

piping. The tracer wire size shall be not less than 18AWG and

the insulation type shall be suitable for direct burial.

Brent,

Do me a favor and ask that inspector what else I have been missing.  Better yet get him to join the forum.


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## mark handler (Sep 27, 2013)

Blue Trace wire

16 Gauge PVC Blue with Red Trace Wire (Sold By The Foot)


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## MASSDRIVER (Sep 27, 2013)

mark handler said:
			
		

> Blue Trace wire16 Gauge PVC Blue with Red Trace Wire (Sold By The Foot)


Would you accept that as direct burial? It's not really conducting anything until a trace current is put on it after all, but if an official wanted to die on that mountain I wonder if they would be correct technically.I'm only familiar with UF.

Brent.


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## mark handler (Sep 27, 2013)

2010 CALIFORNIA PLUMBING CODE

604.8 Approved plastic materials shall be permitted to be used

in water service piping, provided that where metal water service

piping is used for electrical grounding purposes, replacement

piping therefore shall be of like materials.

Exception: Where a grounding system acceptable to the Authority

Having Jurisdiction is installed, inspected, and approved,

metallic pipe shall be permitted to be replaced with

nonmetallic pipe. Plastic materials for water service piping outside

underground shall have a* blue insulated copper tracer wire*

or other approved conductor installed adjacent to the piping.

Access shall be provided to the tracer wire or the tracer wire

shall terminate above ground at each end of the nonmetallic

piping. The tracer wire size shall be not less than 18 AWG and

the insulation type shall be suitable for direct burial.


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## Rider Rick (Sep 27, 2013)

The wonderful world of the web.


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## mark handler (Sep 27, 2013)

*tracer wire color chart*


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## MASSDRIVER (Sep 27, 2013)

mark handler said:
			
		

> 2010 CALIFORNIA PLUMBING CODE604.8 Approved plastic materials shall be permitted to be used
> 
> in water service piping, provided that where metal water service
> 
> ...


It's that last sentence that's the crux. Could you not make the argument that if PVC coated wire were suitable for direct burial as a tracer, it would be suitable outside the confines of conduit in any use?

Brent.


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## Rider Rick (Sep 27, 2013)

I would think reclaimed water would be purple?


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## MASSDRIVER (Sep 27, 2013)

Do's and Don'ts of Tracer Wire Systems - WaterWorld

This article says PVC coatings may deteriorate within 2 years.

Brent.


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## Gregg Harris (Sep 28, 2013)

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> Do's and Don'ts of Tracer Wire Systems - WaterWorldThis article says PVC coatings may deteriorate within 2 years.
> 
> Brent.


Here is a link to UL Marking and Application Guide

Wire and Cable

There are several different wires tested for direct burial. I see no reason for not being able to use any wire listed for direct burial including phone wire and paralleling two or more conductors to equal or exceed # 18

www.ul.com/global/documents/.../W&CMG_April2007_Final.pdf‎

 Her is your gas pipe tracer requirement

IFGC 2012

404.17.3 Tracer. A yellow insulated copper tracer wire or other approved conductor shall be installed adjacent to underground nonmetallic piping. Access shall be provided to the tracer wire or the tracer wire shall terminate above ground at each end of the nonmetallic piping. The tracer wire size shall not be less than 18 AWG and the insulation type shall be suitable for direct burial.


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## MASSDRIVER (Sep 28, 2013)

That link is broken or may require membership.

Brent


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## mark handler (Sep 28, 2013)

http://www.ul.com/global/documents/offerings/perspectives/regulators/electrical/newsletters/W&CMG_April2007_Final.pdf


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## MASSDRIVER (Sep 28, 2013)

So now, knowing what we know, what will you inspectigators accept should you run across this? Specific to Greg Harris, what premise are you getting to for 2 wire equality? Strength, surface area?

Brent.


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## Gregg Harris (Sep 30, 2013)

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> So now, knowing what we know, what will you inspectigators accept should you run across this? Specific to Greg Harris, what premise are you getting to for 2 wire equality? Strength, surface area?Brent.


Both strength and area.

If underground phone cable was available in #24 or 22, I do not see any reason that the wires could not be doubled or tripled to meet the minimum #18. It will be in bundle cable of various numbers such as 24/6 or 22/6. If two of the # 22 are used in parallel it would almost equal a # 16.


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