# Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls



## Mule (Feb 9, 2010)

There has been another discussion about derating wires when two or more cables are passing through a top plate.

What about an electrician stapleing four cables under one staple. This makes a bundle of four cables about eight feet in length on one stud.

Is this allowed by code?


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## raider1 (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls



			
				Mule said:
			
		

> There has been another discussion about derating wires when two or more cables are passing through a top plate.What about an electrician stapleing four cables under one staple. This makes a bundle of four cables about eight feet in length on one stud.
> 
> Is this allowed by code?


Yes, there is no NEC prohibition to bunding cables, just if you do you must adjust the ampacity in accordance with 310.15(B)(2)(a).

As for 4 NM cables together that would be 8 current carrying conductors and the math works out that provided there are no more than 9 CCC in NM cable bundled together the final adjusted ampacity is still above the ampacity listed for the 60 degree column of Table 310.16.

Chris


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## chris kennedy (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls

Read the info on the box of staples. Should say something like "1 or 2 12/2 or 10/2'. Yet to see a staple good for 4 NM's, but I don't do many dwellings.


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## D a v e W (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls

I agree I have never seen a staple actually for more two NM under it. We have all seen three, two flat and one no edge. The edge one being a no-no.


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## dcspector (Feb 10, 2010)

Re: Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls

Four cables under one staple :shock:  That is why we used "3M Stackers" and or CJ's. Also, they keep the cables out from stud edge......great invention.


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## D a v e W (Feb 10, 2010)

Re: Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls

DC, I remember when it was like pulling teeth to get them to start using them....


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## jar546 (Feb 10, 2010)

Re: Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls

3m stackers are my favorite.  I have used them for installations and find they make life much easier.  Staples make it difficult to comply with the code when you have to secure multiple cables on a 2x4 stud.


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## dcspector (Feb 10, 2010)

Re: Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls



			
				D a v e W said:
			
		

> DC, I remember when it was like pulling teeth to get them to start using them....


I do as well. All I see here is CJ's for MC and NMB........"Colorado Jim" is a rich man...wish I had invented them...


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## peach (Feb 10, 2010)

Re: Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls

Lot's of things I wish I invented.. (hind sight is such a great thing)...

DC is right.. all we see (even with most SFD) is CJ's.  Makes it so much easier for us!


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## dcspector (Feb 10, 2010)

Re: Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls



			
				jar546 said:
			
		

> 3m stackers are my favorite.  I have used them for installations and find they make life much easier.  Staples make it difficult to comply with the code when you have to secure multiple cables on a 2x4 stud.


I agree Jeff. They are far more expensive than those nasty staples but what you save on labor cost it all weighs out in the end. Also, we had less AFCI troubleshooting as well.......you know, that helper that beats the staples in to far  :x


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## dcspector (Feb 10, 2010)

Re: Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls

Peach did I tell you about one I had in G-"Hoya"-town? The EC tried to secure 4/0 SER using CJ6's. He gave up after bending them beyond recognition. I showed him the installation instructions. Duuuuh


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## globe trekker (Feb 10, 2010)

Re: Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls

Greg,

For those of us who don't know what a ' CJ '  or a  ' 3M Stacker ' is, could you please post a link to the manufacturer' site, or some pics.?   Thanks!    

.


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## dcspector (Feb 10, 2010)

Re: Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls

Globster I am Computer stupid...... I don't know how  Try erico.com and look for the CJ6 (Colorado Jim) They are a Caddy product.


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## globe trekker (Feb 10, 2010)

Re: Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls

Thanks for the info!  Check out the links for some pictures of these animals.    



*http://www.erico.com/products/CADDYcfcC ... eSpprt.asp*



and

*http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/e ... GP4DVB14gl*



.


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## Mule (Feb 10, 2010)

Re: Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls

CJ6


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## peach (Feb 10, 2010)

Re: Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls

It's a great product...  I've seen all kinds of convulations of ways to secure MC cable...


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## GHRoberts (Feb 11, 2010)

Re: Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls

I was looking at the stackers.They claim to eliminate the heat issues.

We had the photo of NM cables in fire stopped holes. And of course we have the issue of NM cables in conduit.

So I am thinking can we use the stackers in fires topped holes or in conduits and eliminate the derating.

We might have to do some design work to make the stackers fit into the holes or conduit, but that seems easy enough to do.


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## globe trekker (Mar 16, 2010)

Re: Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls

D a v e W mentioned that attaching conductors on their sides is a "no no", ...that

they should be attached / fastened only on the face of the conductor.

Can someone on here please provide a section in the IRC or the NEC to verify

this installation requirement?      We are on the `06 I-codes and the `08 NEC.

Thanks!    

.


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## north star (Mar 16, 2010)

Re: Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls



*globe trekker,*



*See Article 334.80 in the 2008 NEC and Table E3702.1, Note " i " in the 2006 IRC.*



*HTH *


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## Kevin Turner (Mar 16, 2010)

Re: Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls

globe trekker: The 2006 IRC Tabe E3702.1 foot note i prohibits flat cables and I don't have a NEC 08 however in the 05 edition Article 334.30 states the same thing.

Should be the same in the 08.

Hope this helps.


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## Kevin Turner (Mar 16, 2010)

Re: Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls

Sorry ment to say prohibits secured on edge   

KT


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## globe trekker (Mar 16, 2010)

Re: Securing Wires 10 Ft Walls

Kevin Turner [ KT ],

Welcome to the codes forum!     

north star,

Much thanks for your quick response!

.


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