# Time to get EPA certified --



## conarb (Apr 12, 2010)

And buy your Tyvek suits and booties, or don't inspect any pre-1978 buildings. 
	

		
			
		

		
	

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> As the RRP draws closer (April 22nd, next Thursday), every week seems to reveal  additional considerations for remodelers and other industry  stakeholders, including homeowners, inspectors, and local governments.*Inspector Eye-Openers*





> Last week, for instance, I attended a meeting of the  Massachusetts Federation of Building Inspectors. Three EPA officials  from the Boston area were there, as were two representatives from the  Massachusetts Department of Occupational Safety. James Bryson, EPA’s RRP  coordinator for Region 1, gave a brief overview of the rule, and it was  clear that many of the building inspectors in attendance were hearing  about the rule for the first time. They seemed taken back by its  realities and likely impact on their jobs as inspectors and their  budgets. So then I gave the inspectors something else to think  about.  How, I asked, would they handle on-site inspections  while projects are in containment and potentially hot with lead? Would  they be willing to put on the white suits and booties before entering  the posted work areas, and would they Hepa-Vac themselves clean before  they left? And did they know that they would need to bring their own  white suits and booties, as remodelers wouldn’t want to risk providing  them due to the potential for liability in the case of “costume  failure”? Quite a buzz of conversation followed. Most  inspectors indicated they would not enter a contained area and would  likely require proof of cleaning and cleaning verification prior to  inspecting pre-1978 properties going forward.   If this ends up being the case, remodelers, plan to  beef up your estimates (and adjust your schedules) to include multiple  clean-up and containment setups.¹


Your employer must also be certified, as of course you will, contractors nationwide are going nuts over this, there is not enough training for most to comply, it will slow work way down. Can't we just see Uncle Bob having a "wardrobe malfunction" on the jobsite?  The fine is $35,000 per incident, and there could be multiple incidents on a jobsite. ¹  http://www.remodeling.hw.net/blogs/postdetails.aspx?BlogId=shawnmccadden&PostId=93759




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## JBI (Apr 12, 2010)

I have a brother-in-law who worked as a bridge painter. They still use lead-based paint on bridges. At every job they set up (among other things) a portable 'shower' to clean off at the end of the day. Theory being that we don't want to contaminate the River below with any lead. Next time you see a bridge repair/maintenance project that involves painting, take a look for the shower. Once you've identified it... look for the waste line discharge.

It'll be the open ended two or three inch line pointing directly at the river below.

Wait until they decide to tell everyone that fiberglass is just as dangerous as asbestos, that ought to be fun.


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## Bryan Holland (Apr 12, 2010)

Here's my issues with the whole matter:

1. There is no enforcement provision.  The EPA has no inspectors.  The local building departments have no funding or special mandate reuqiring them to enforce the federal law.  The local housing authority may have some interest in this, but have not received any guidelines from the feds, state, or any other authority.

2. There are too many loop-holes.  Especially the "size of the disturbed area" aspect.  It appers that you can disturb as many areas of the home's walls and ceilings as you would like as long as no one wall or ceiling exceeds the square foot threshold.

3.  There has not been adequate training opportunities provided and those that were available cost as much as $350 per person.

I am all for protecting the general public, homeowners, and workers, but this new law is dumb.


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## conarb (Apr 12, 2010)

Here is how I see it playing out (if it isn't postponed prior to the 22nd).  Only EPA certified contractors can work on pre 1978 homes, all employees and subcontractors in the "hot areas" must be certified.  The contractor calls for inspection, the city must be certified and send out a certified inspector equipped with protective equipment, the contractor can't allow an uncertified inspector into the hot areas. If the AHJ isn't certified and/or doesn't have a certified inspector to send out, then after 72 hours the contractor can proceed without inspection.  No inspections means no finals, no finals means the values of the improvements don't go onto the assessors' roles, the AHJs get less taxes. 

Let's say the AHJ does get certified along with one or more of ti's inspectors, the inspector shows up and dons his wardrobe, as he leaves each hot area the contractor vacuums him down, and that will mean several times on the average job.  I want both Peach and Alias to inspect my pre 1978 jobs, I'll personally vacuum them down, several times, and no giggling.  Uncle Bob stay home, it won't be any fun vacuuming you down.


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## jim baird (Apr 12, 2010)

As a consultant inspecting and writing CDBG funded housing rehab a few yrs ago I was paid to get certified as a lead inspector and "risk assessor".

The "training" was contracted to a fly-by-nite trainer in a strip mall.  "Training" amounted to watching VHS on a TV, plus "hands on" instruction in how to scoop up soil into a little glass vial and how to scrape a paint sample off a window casing.  It was an insult.

The most valuable lesson of the week's training was that lead poisoning is best avoided for ALL of us by washing our hands.

The stipulations attached to those CDBG funds pretty much made the local admin throw up its hands and quit.  Program stopped.

BTW one fun tidbit I learned was that federal money in 60's required contractors to use lead paint because it is the best.


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## conarb (Apr 12, 2010)

\ said:
			
		

> BTW one fun tidbit I learned was that federal money in 60's required  contractors to use lead paint because it is the best.


Jim:

As I remember on custom homes the painters used lead based paint on the trim and exterior and oil based on the interor walls. So any HUD job required all lead based paint?  Wow, I never paid much attention to what the painters were using but I built a few FHA homes in the 50s so they must have had lead based paint too.


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## jj1289 (Apr 12, 2010)

I agree with Bryan,  Their is no mandate that the building department enforce this new regulation nor do we have to be certified.


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## conarb (Apr 12, 2010)

From the article:





> I attended a meeting of the Massachusetts Federation of Building  Inspectors. Three EPA officials from the Boston area were there, as were  two representatives from the Massachusetts Department of Occupational  Safety. James Bryson, EPA’s RRP coordinator for Region 1, gave a brief  overview of the rule, and* it was clear that many of the building  inspectors in attendance were hearing about the rule for the first time.  They seemed taken back by its realities and likely impact on their jobs  as inspectors and their budgets.*


Federal law supersedes state statutes and municipal ordinances, if you were to violate federal law by entering a "hot area" uncertified you could be arrested and prosecuted. It is the certified contractor's responsibility to maintain the integrity of that area and not allow uncertified people inside the hot zone. All agree that this is absolutely insane, but the EPA stands for the Environmental Protection Agency, they were sued by the Sierra Club, the most visible of the environmental groups, and ordered to do this.   You are not enforcing this, although you will be enforcing the Green Codes, but you are subject to the laws regulating this. Here is information on settlement of the Sierra Club lawsuit.



This does bring up a huge subject that I'll ask those going to certification training to present, namely what to do about a municipal inspector who refuses to obey the Federal law, make a citizens arrest and take him, to the local FBI office?


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## jim baird (Apr 13, 2010)

conarb,

my knowledge is way less than encyclopedic here, so I don't know about houses or FHA.

more fun facts:

"Dutch boy" brand was derived form weird fact that lead paint's origin was as a spinoff from leather tanning in Holland, where the process involved huge vats for chemical baths for the leather products.  The vats' inner surfaces would accrete over time a gooey film.  To remove the film "little Dutch boys" were sent inside to scrape the goo into buckets.  Goo was a lead compund that tanners discovered mixed with other stuff to make excellent paint.  Data on little Dutch boys' life spans is not known but I bet it was shorter than others'.


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## mjesse (Apr 19, 2010)

I posed a question to the EPA regarding the local building departments responsibility. Here is their response;

Subject

What is the responsibility of the local Building Department (if any) for comp...

 Discussion Thread

 Response (Toxics) 04/17/2010 02:44 PM

Good afternoon

Thank you for contacting the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA) Assistance

Information Service Hotline.

Local building Departments could enforce the EPA RRP (Renovation, Repair, and Painting) Rule in States authorized by EPA to administer their own RRP programs. As of 4/17/10, these States include Wisconsin, Iowa, North Carolina, and Mississippi.

For information on the RRP Rule, please goto http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/toolkits.htm

For further information, please go to www.epa/gov/oppt.

If you have further questions feel free to contact us at 202-554-1404.

Sincerely,

Dan

EPA Shift Manager

TSCA Assistance Information Service (T.A.I.S) Hotline

Operated under contract with ABVI-Goodwill

mj


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## Bryan Holland (Apr 19, 2010)

That response settles it for me.  I won't give the matter another thought...


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## fatboy (Apr 19, 2010)

I hadn't given it a thought in months. All of my staff is certifed, but not because we will be enforcing this federal mandate, it is due to the assistance we provide to our urban renewal department. All my office is doing is advising contractors and homeowners of the new rules. End of story..........


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