# Fire Alarm System Required?????



## That Inspector Guy (Oct 29, 2010)

Lads,

Building is well over 100 years old. 3 stories w/ full basement. Basement, 1 and 2 are used as an A2 Restaurant/Bar (basement being for food prep/storage only.) Recently did a fire inspection. Has not had an inspection recently (Jurisdiction recently started fire inspections.) There is an existing manual pull station (non monitored) system, however it is not functioning, completely dead. The official occupancy load is not yet known, we are working on that but if it's not 300 it's gotta be close.

Using the IFC, 907 basically says 907.2 will be for new bldgs, 907.3 for existing bldgs. That being said, 907.2.1 says for occupant load of 300 or more, a manual pull station (non monitored) shall be installed.

Going to 4603.6 and using table 4603.1, I cannot find where a system would be required for an existing A occupancy. The table itself skips from 4603.5 to 4603.6.1......Which is where I would expect to see (using the "A" use column) that the system would be required for an A use. Then, in reading, it does not even mention A uses....4603.6.1 goes right to discussion of E uses and on....

We want them to repair the existing system, but apparently it is so antiquated that it would cost them an arm and leg. So I am trying to determine if it is even required, if not I'll have them yank it out. Maybe I am just tired today, but I can't for the life of me find where an existing A use with 300+ occupants would require the system......

Thoughts??????


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## Paul Sweet (Oct 29, 2010)

Try to find out when it was first used as a restaurant, and what code (if any) was adopted at that time.


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## cda (Oct 29, 2010)

Same as above it was put in for some reason

So has to be maintained

Are there pulls at all exits??

A/vs through out??

Fire sprinkler system??


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## That Inspector Guy (Oct 29, 2010)

cda said:
			
		

> Same as above it was put in for some reasonSo has to be maintained
> 
> Are there pulls at all exits??
> 
> ...


-I wonder if it was installed under the I say so codes under a previous fire chief here (wouldnt surprise me....)

-In lieu of maintaining it, I will give them the option of removal, as long as it is not required

-Pulls at all exits and A/V's throughout.

-No sprinkler system


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## Forest (Oct 29, 2010)

Being in Pa, was it built under The Fire and Panic Act.What if any local codes was in affect at time of construction or remodel.If the manual system is present taking it out because of not working,would not be a good idea.That would be making the present building less safe.


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## rshuey (Oct 29, 2010)

I agree with Forest. It was most likely required under the Fire & Panic Act, so it must be maintained.


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## tbz (Oct 29, 2010)

This will seem a little funny coming from a guard guy, but I spent 14 years right out of High school doing higher end fire alarms.

With a straight manual pull station system to panel if it was installed to what I would call normal comercial specs the first time, the change over and upgrade should take no more than a day with 2 men.

The problem in lies with the original installation of the wire and equipment.  If they used an old burg system with non-compliant wiring, then it would be a complete new installation, wire and all.

However, if wired correctly though the equipment might be a bit pricey now, I can't see the arm & leg unless the service company is looking to nstall a point id system which would be totally over kill.

I see your noted location is the LV, if I remember right LV has had a Low Voltage LIC. for contractors since the 80's or less, being wired wrong would be the only high cost item I see.

Then again a candy bar in the 80's was still 30 cents.:???:


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## FredK (Oct 29, 2010)

My 2 cents because I'm haven't been in the Fire Code in ages is to deal with the 903 section only.  Otherwise your mixing and matching and getting a salad.

Sure would be great if everyone applied the codes from day 1 but I haven't found that yet in the years I been here.  Saying do this or that and another group is/was/might of done a follow up inspection doesn't really happen in the real world.

It's in and should be working so get it fixed is MHO.  Want to do something different that meets the current code bring in your proposal and we'll check it and approve/deny it is the other option I leave them.


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