# Woodstove Installation.....and Unhappy Homeowner



## Alias (May 3, 2011)

The homeowner lives out of town and hired a local contractor to repair some fire damage caused by a flue fire in the fireplace.  There are tenants living in the home currently.  The job was started in January and never finished.  I was contacted last week by the homeowner to see what permits had been issued.  There weren't any permits ever issued and I informed the homeowner.  I went over today and looked at the work that had been done and here are a couple of pictures of what I found, the last is the outlet for the fan on the woodstove:
	

		
			
		

		
	

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Original fireplace and chimney have been removed.  Wood stove is installed on OSB, walls are sheetrocked, no documentation on who made the woodstove.  Back plate on stove has clearances and the stove does meet the clearances.  Pictures #1, 2, & 3 are taken from behind the woodstove looking up at the roof sheathing, ceiling has not been continued across opening to seal air infiltration from outside.  The new electrical outlet isn't attached to anything, sheetrock missing at outlet, and no junction box.   Needless to say, homeowner is upset.  The job was supposedly complete and has been paid for.  I am working with the homeowner to get the repairs permitted and done to code.  Do you see anything that I missed?

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## Jobsaver (May 3, 2011)

Missing thimble for ceiling. Also, most woodstove manufacturers these days offer a set list of chimney component manufacturers allowed with their units. I might do a little internet research and obtain some manufacturer's installation literature before I would sign off on this installation.


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## Pcinspector1 (May 3, 2011)

Agree with Jobsaver, find the manufactures install requirements. I would check the clearance on the flue pipe next to the OSB, should have a sticker on the pipe that should show a 1" clearance or be embosed on the double wall pipe.

pc1


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## pwood (May 3, 2011)

need the stove installation instructions  instructions for the alcove install. Need to verify the stove meets the EPA requirements. Installed on osb without floor protection? big NO. Tear the whole thing out and have a licensed guy install it. wonder what it looks like above the roof?


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## Alias (May 3, 2011)

pwood said:
			
		

> need the stove installation instructions instructions for the alcove install. Need to verify the stove meets the EPA requirements. Installed on osb without floor protection? big NO. Tear the whole thing out and have a licensed guy install it. wonder what it looks like above the roof?


I'll post that picture later, after I resize the picture. It is not a pretty installation, stove pipe lists to the right and no bracing. Homeowner got a call from the direct weatherization folks that they would not weatherize the house until it was fixed.


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## Alias (May 3, 2011)

Jobsaver said:
			
		

> Missing thimble for ceiling. Also, most woodstove manufacturers these days offer a set list of chimney component manufacturers allowed with their units. I might do a little internet research and obtain some manufacturer's installation literature before I would sign off on this installation.


Good catch on the thimble!  I noted that also.

There is no permit on the installation, so, nothing for me to sign off on.  Homeower hired a contractor to do the work and this is what she found when she came to visit and check on the job.  Tenants were complaining that stove didn't heat the home and that it was always cold.  Contractor left no literature for the woodstove and did not install the one the homeowner specified.  I went around rear of stove, found the plate with the clearances but no company name.  EPA registration on plate says 1990.  Homeowner is trying to get stove info from contractor.  My take is that he installed one he removed/bought/obtained from another home.


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## Frank (May 3, 2011)

Alias said:
			
		

> The homeowner lives out of town and hired a local contractor to repair some fire damage caused by a flue fire in the fireplace.  Original fireplace and chimney have been removed.  Wood stove is installed on OSB, walls are sheetrocked, no documentation on who made the woodstove.  Back plate on stove has clearances and the stove does meet the clearances.  Pictures #1, 2, & 3 are taken from behind the woodstove looking up at the roof sheathing, ceiling has not been continued across opening to seal air infiltration from outside.  The new electrical outlet isn't attached to anything, sheetrock missing at outlet, and no junction box.   Needless to say, homeowner is upset.  The job was supposedly complete and has been paid for.  I am working with the homeowner to get the repairs permitted and done to code.
> 
> Do you see anything that I missed?


Looks like they are getting ready for the next fire.

The TV above the stove is not a good idea from a durabillity of the electronics.


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## fatboy (May 3, 2011)

Yeah, well, I don't feel to much pain for the owner. Should have found a reputable contractor, had a contract, confirmed the presence of a permit, not paid the contractor until a final inspection was performed and passed.

But no, they are out of town and now want the building department to take the heat (pun intended) for the owners lack of taking responsibility.


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## Coug Dad (May 3, 2011)

fatboy said:
			
		

> Yeah, well, I don't feel to much pain for the owner. Should have found a reputable contractor, had a contract, confirmed the presence of a permit, not paid the contractor until a final inspection was performed and passed. But no, they are out of town and now want the building department to take the heat (pun intended) for the owners lack of taking responsibility.


The OP never says the owner is mad at or blaming the code official.  Pretty hard to determine reputation when you are miles away.  Just a sad story all around but at least the owner is trying to do the right thing.


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## fatboy (May 3, 2011)

"Needless to say, homeowner is upset. The job was supposedly complete and has been paid for. I am working with the homeowner to get the repairs permitted and done to code."

The fact that now the code official is asked to get involved, lead me to believe the "upset" is being directed at the code official. Seems to me if you have a property that you are miles away from, you do your due diligence to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen. Yeah, it's great the owner wants to do the right thing now.......

Sorry, been in this position to many times, illegal construction that the property owner needs to make right, and now it's the building departments problem.

JMHO


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## Alias (May 3, 2011)

fatboy said:
			
		

> Yeah, well, I don't feel to much pain for the owner. Should have found a reputable contractor, had a contract, confirmed the presence of a permit, not paid the contractor until a final inspection was performed and passed. But no, they are out of town and now want the building department to take the heat (pun intended) for the owners lack of taking responsibility.


fatboy -

Sorry I wasn't very clear.

Fortunately, the owner is not mad at me. The contractor she contacted presented himself as being aboveboard. The homeowner is a middle-aged lady who has never had to hire a contractor until the fire in the rental, her family home. The work was started in January and is still incomplete.

She called me originally to see if a permit had been pulled to do the work.  This was after she talked to the attorney at legal aid. The contractor had assured her he had gotten a permit but my records show that he never had.  She wants to get a permit and have the work done under the permit.

It is just a very sad case like Coug Dad said and will be ending in small claims court.


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## Alias (May 3, 2011)

delete delete


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## Alias (May 3, 2011)

Frank said:
			
		

> Looks like they are getting ready for the next fire.The TV above the stove is not a good idea from a durabillity of the electronics.


Picture #5 shows the outlet where the power strip is plugged in that runs the blower on the stove and the TV et al.  Picture #4 shows the wiring, love the cable box placement.


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## FredK (May 3, 2011)

MHO is to start over.  Permit, installation instructions and a better contractor.

Placing a 1990's stove in the place screams of what's maybe a bigger problem down the road.


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## fatboy (May 3, 2011)

Sorry for jumping to conclussions. It has been my experience for the most part, that no matter what, it's the building officials fault, somehow, someway.......


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## righter101 (May 3, 2011)

Check with DOE

I don't know about other states, but the state of Washington Department of Ecology has an approved list of wood stove & pellet stoves that meet their emissions requirement.  If it is not on the list, it is not allowed to be installed.

JMHO & $0.02


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## klarenbeek (May 4, 2011)

Make sure it is UL 737 (fireplace stoves) or UL 1482 (solid fuel room heaters) listed. One of the big box stores here sells an unlisted woodstove.  It comes with installation instructions, clearance requirements, what type of venting to use and how to vent it, but no UL listing.  Had a homeowner who did the right thing and got his permits like he was supposed to, but he had to pull the stove out.  He actually didn't mind, though. he wanted to get a slightly more expensive (and properly listed) stove, but his wife talked him into "saving some money" and getting the cheaper one.


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## cda (May 4, 2011)

not a chimmney person

but have you checked the vent all the way through the roof?? and is the vent pipe itself any good, and connected together correctly???


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## Alias (May 4, 2011)

FredK said:
			
		

> MHO is to start over.  Permit, installation instructions and a better contractor.  Placing a 1990's stove in the place screams of what's maybe a bigger problem down the road.


It will be a 'do-over' per the owner, she wants it done right.  One fire in the family manse was enough for her.  I did track down the stove, it is made by a company in Morton Grove, IL, and was purchased at Tractor Supply new, tenant has the book.  I'm sure the vent pipe isn't drawing right and is causing the smoked glass and soot around the vent cap.


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## Alias (May 4, 2011)

klarenbleek -

It has a UL 1482 listing.  When someone comes in for a permit, I request to see the installation manual and/or manufacturers specs.  I make a copy of the info and it goes into the file with the permit record.


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## Alias (May 4, 2011)

righter101 said:
			
		

> I don't know about other states, but the state of Washington Department of Ecology has an approved list of wood stove & pellet stoves that meet their emissions requirement.  If it is not on the list, it is not allowed to be installed.JMHO & $0.02


I'm in CA, and like WA, EPA, CalGreen, and CEC rules and codes must be met.


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