# Door swing / exterior doors other than egress / landing/stair



## righter101 (Sep 23, 2011)

2009 IRC 311.3.2

R311.3.2 Floor elevations for other exterior doors. Doors

other than the required egress door shall be provided with

landings or floors not more than 7 3/4 inches  below

the top of the threshold.

Exception:A landing is not required where a stairway of

two or fewer risers is located on the exterior side of the

door, provided the door does not swing over the stairway.

Just curious how others are interpreting this section??

The 2003 seemed to make it pretty clear that you can not have a 7.75" drop on the outside of a door if the door swings over it.

The 2006 reworded the language quite a bit, but the intent and end result still seems to be there, if you have a door swinging out, you need a landing within 1.5 inches.  Basically, you can not have a door swing over a 7.75" drop.

When I read the 2009, it seems to confuse the issue.  Has the intent changed, to allow doors (not the required egress) to swing over a 7.75" drop??

Is it reasonable for me to intepret this section using the exception, that a drop of 7.75" would constitute a "stairway of two or fewer risers", thus not allowing the door to swing over it??

I looked through the thread archives and didn't find this one.

I think the intent of the code is, if you have a 7.75" drop out side a door, the door should not swing over it.

Thoughts, opinions, comments, criticisms, even off topic jokes are welcome.

Thanks


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## fatboy (Sep 23, 2011)

Yes, you are correct, the door may not swing over whatever is there, be it a step or landing.


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## righter101 (Sep 23, 2011)

Thanks Fatboy,

Does my logic seem sound in arriving at it??

As devil's advocate, it seems ambigious enough that you could argue the other way.

Do you have a quick sentence on how you can justify it?

Using the exception and the prohibition of swinging over by the door specifically mentioned??

thanks.


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## fatboy (Sep 23, 2011)

Yes, you either use the exception for landings 7 3/4 below, that tells you the door can't swing over, or the stair exception that repeats it.


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## mtlogcabin (Sep 23, 2011)

Exception:A landing is not required where a stairway of

two or fewer risers is located on the exterior side of the

door, provided the door does not swing over the stairway

The exception places the landing at no more than two risers below the door.

Now the question (sorry about hijacking your thread) for discussion is how do you count the risers?

Some instructors teach that the change in elevation between a landing and floor is not considered a riser. What do you think?

STAIR. A change in elevation, consisting of one or more risers.


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## High Desert (Sep 23, 2011)

I think that some instructors are teaching the code wrong.


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## mark handler (Sep 23, 2011)

High Desert said:
			
		

> I think that some instructors are teaching the code wrong.


Does that suprise you?


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## fatboy (Sep 23, 2011)

"I think that some instructors are teaching the code wrong."

Ditto.....a rise, is a rise, period.


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## righter101 (Sep 23, 2011)

Hope you all have a great weekend.....

Thanks again for all the feedback, I am very greatful for this forumn and will send in another donation.  It is the members that make it what it is....

We are getting a seriously nice weekend here in the San Juan Islands. Beautiful first day of fall...

Catch you soon....


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## fatboy (Sep 23, 2011)

Enjoy, we are also getting an awesome weekend in Northern Colorado, going to get a scooter ride in, watch the local University play their homecoming.....can't get better than that, right?

Enjoy all!


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## Rio (Sep 24, 2011)

Never allow a door to swing over a step, it's a sure way to have someone break their neck...............


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## Architect1281 (Sep 24, 2011)

wrong code


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## fatboy (Sep 24, 2011)

huh.........your point?


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## tbz (Sep 24, 2011)

> Some instructors teach that the change in elevation between a landing and floor is not considered a riser. What do you think? STAIR. A change in elevation, consisting of one or more risers.


Hum, I have not seen this ever argued, however I have had many debates over the drop being less than 4" and thus not being a compliant riser for minimum and thus being argued it is not a riser.

May be that is the direction the instructor was taking?


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## ICE (Sep 24, 2011)

*R311.3 Floors and landings at exterior doors. There shall be a landing or floor on each side of each exterior door.*

*R311.3.1 Floor elevations at required egress doors.  *

*Landings or floors at required egress doors shall not be more than 1.5" lower than the top of the threshold.*

*    Exception: The exterior landing or floor shall not be more than 7.75" below the top of the threshold provided the door does not swing over the landing or floor. *

*R311.3.2 Floor elevations for other exterior doors.  *

*Doors other than the required egress door shall be provided with landings or floors not more than 7.75" below the top of the threshold.*

*    Exception: A landing is not required where a stairway of two or fewer risers is located and the door does not swing over the stairway.*



Door swing is only mentioned in the exceptions.  The exceptions allow an expanded elevation change in the case of the required egress door and the acceptance of a stairway of two or fewer risers with other doors.

Required egress doors may swing over a required landing or floor that is not more than 1.5" below the top of the threshold.

Other exterior doors may swing over a landing or floor that is not more than 7.75" below the top of the threshold but not over a stairway.

Stairs have risers and only stairs have risers. A stairway has stairs and only a stairway has stairs.  Landings may or may not include a change in elevation but that change in elevation is not a riser or a stair.  If the change in elevation at a landing were construed to be riser, as in a stair riser, by default, there would be a stairway present.  A stairway is is not permitted at a required egress door.

Change in elevation is measured from the top of the threshold.  If any change in elevation is a riser{there is no minimum height of a riser}, any door with a threshold would have a stairway on both sides no matter what.

The definition of a stair as "a change in elevation, consisting of one or more risers" is an unfortunate mistake in the code.

All stairs are a change in elevation but not all changes in elevation are stairs. To think otherwise is too literal an interpretation and creates a mess.


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## fatboy (Sep 24, 2011)

"STAIR. A change in elevation, consisting of one or more risers."

Call it what you want, but if it has a rise, the door can't swing over it.


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## peach (Sep 30, 2011)

Fat.. that's not really what the code says now... it says stairway, not stair (or step).  Stairway is one or more flights of stairs.


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## fatboy (Oct 1, 2011)

So you would approve a door swinging over a single rise? Sorry, I'l call it all day, every day. Take it to the BOA, I think we all know the intent here. I know you like to take the devils advocate peach..........


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## ICE (Oct 10, 2011)

fatboy said:
			
		

> So you would approve a door swinging over a single rise? Sorry, I'l call it all day, every day. Take it to the BOA, I think we all know the intent here. I know you like to take the devils advocate peach..........


Here you go fatboy.  The Devil will let you say no to this one.


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## Pcinspector1 (Oct 10, 2011)

Good one ICE!

"now that's pridy funny, right there!"

pc1


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## righter101 (Oct 11, 2011)

Just needs a handrail.


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