# Acoustic Panels on Ceiling w/ Sprinklers



## fork

I'm trying to confirm the fire code regulations with respect to mounting acoustic panels on a ceiling, in proximity of a ceiling sprinkler head.  This is a 6-story residential building in Bellevue, WA.

I'd like to increase the current size of the black panel from 6x6' to 8x8'.  The method of mounting consists of two 4x8' sheets of 1/4" plywood to the ceiling, then mounting the panels to the plywood (the thickness with the plywood is just under 2").  The panels use fire rated materials and I don't know if there's any issue with using plywood on the ceiling, but if there may be I'd like to know.

An 8x8' panel would leave 6-7" between the edge of the panel and the center of the sprinkler head.  Someone from our local fire department suggested I need to look into the "Beam Rule" of the NFPA; a post on this site suggested that according to the Beam Rule, a 2" thick panel must be at least 12" from the head (I assume that's from the center of the head).

I appreciate any feedback you can offer about whether the 12" interpretation is correct and whether I can use standard 1/4" plywood.










https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6vYbX1pB8ixY2pzRFp3OENIU0JqMVdZZ3o2WEctb1plYjNB
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6vYbX1pB8ixeVRfOHI3WnBYTVE


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## cda

So are you going to just do the black one as in the picture

Or also the blue??

welcome


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## fork

cda said:


> So are you going to just do the black one as in the picture
> 
> Or also the blue??
> 
> welcome



Yes, I thought the question might get complicated if I asked  about the blue panels, but please feel free to offer any advice about those, mounted in the same 45 degree orientation.


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## cda

Best advice

Get with building owner management 

See which fire sprinkler company they use.

Contact them, talk to thier design person.

Best thing to do is have that person come look at what you want to do.

Your question has to many variables for an answer here.


And there is no one Rule to go by, that can be given you.


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## fork

cda said:


> Best advice
> Get with building owner management
> See which fire sprinkler company they use.
> Contact them, talk to thier design person.
> Best thing to do is have that person come look at what you want to do.
> Your question has to many variables for an answer here.
> And there is no one Rule to go by, that can be given you.



That's not an option in this case.  I've reviewed the terms of my lease agreement and confirmed this project is not in violation of the agreement.  I've been in this building for 8 years and the manager is a good guy; officially he doesn't want to know what I'm up to.  However, there's no chance I could go through official channels and get that kind of cooperation (it would open up a can of worms with things other tenants might want to do in their unit), which is why I'm having to figure this out on my own..

I can provide more info about the fire system, a close-up pic of the head, etc, if that would be helpful.


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## fork

cda said:


> So are you going to just do the black one as in the picture
> 
> Or also the blue??



On second thought, I think not.  I'm just going to focus on the black panels for now.  Maybe the blue later.


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## cda

fork said:


> On second thought, I think not.  I'm just going to focus on the black panels for now.  Maybe the blue later.




Call another sprinkler company on your own.
Have them come by and advise you.

You do not want it done wrong, and have a fire


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## JBI

Any Fire Protection Engineer worth his degree could give you sage advice, and will likely be needed to prepare plans anyway.


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## Pcinspector1

Will the sprinkler heads be hidden behind the panels? 

Are the heads up-rights type?

If the heads discharge will the panels change the spray protection pattern?

Would this be treated the same as hanging curtains on a wall?


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## fork

Pcinspector1 said:


> Will the sprinkler heads be hidden behind the panels?  Are the heads up-rights type?  If the heads discharge will the panels change the spray protection pattern?



This is regarding only the black panels (flat on the ceiling) not the blue panels.

Here's a picture of the head, which measures 1.25" from the ceiling and the panel is 1.75" from the ceiling.  The room is 16x13' and 17' tall, with 2 heads, 9' apart.

I don't know the spray radius of this particular head.  According to this diagram image the spray pattern shown would reach 1.75" at a distance of 4.7".


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## ICE

I don't know about everybody else but I didn't get the picture.  Can't you add an inch or two to the sprinkler pipe?  I mean not you....but you know what I mean.


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## fork

ICE said:


> I don't know about everybody else but I didn't get the picture.



The forum image tool may not be working.  Here are the links:

*Sprinkler*
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6vYbX1pB8ixUnBqbGsxVVY1dFF3NEk0UXZoSFlDSkhpWGhZ

*Diagram*
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6vYbX1pB8ixRDF2R2RCZDVkcjg


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## cda

fork said:


> The forum image tool may not be working.  Here are the links:
> 
> *Sprinkler*
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6vYbX1pB8ixUnBqbGsxVVY1dFF3NEk0UXZoSFlDSkhpWGhZ
> 
> *Diagram*
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6vYbX1pB8ixRDF2R2RCZDVkcjg




I am highly guessing the second picture is wrong, for the sprinkler head you have installed.

There are WAY to many variables for an Internet answer.

Call a fire sprinkler company to have them look at it and advise.


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## fork

cda said:


> I am highly guessing the second picture is wrong, for the sprinkler head you have installed.
> 
> There are WAY to many variables for an Internet answer.
> 
> Call a fire sprinkler company to have them look at it and advise.



If I'm not mistaken, I gather that there are specific laws for the minimum distance from the head for objects of a specific height, but that distance may be reduced for a head that has a more broad than usual dispersion pattern.

Also, that the key is for an inspector to identify the manufacturer and model of the head and review the specs, to render an accurate opinion.  If they can identify it from a picture, it would not be critical for them to look at the head in person.

Am I missing anything?  thanks


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## JBI

Technically 'codes' not 'laws', but yes there are specific standards involved. NFPA 13 is the standard for commercial sprinklers. 
I stand by my original comment... talk to a Fire Protection Engineer.


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## cda

fork said:


> If I'm not mistaken, I gather that there are specific laws for the minimum distance from the head for objects of a specific height, but that distance may be reduced for a head that has a more broad than usual dispersion pattern.
> 
> Also, that the key is for an inspector to identify the manufacturer and model of the head and review the specs, to render an accurate opinion.  If they can identify it from a picture, it would not be critical for them to look at the head in person.
> 
> Am I missing anything?  thanks



Yes


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## cda

A head used in residential has a different spray pattern than in a commercial setting.

Plus there are different obstruction rules between commercial and residential,

Plus the obstruction rules apply to closeness to the head also

Need to see it in person or on a detailed scaled plan


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## steveray

If the black panels are at about the same elevation as the heads, it should not be an obstruction, but NFPA 13 will have that answer.. I would be more concerned about the finish ratings and the blue panels...


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## cda

High Possibly 13R

Rules change


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## tmurray

cda said:


> High Possibly 13R
> 
> Rules change



OP said 6 stories.

CDA is right, there are too many variables to take into account to give the proper answer. How far would the panels be below the sprinkler deflector?


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## fork

tmurray said:


> OP said 6 stories.
> 
> CDA is right, there are too many variables to take into account to give the proper answer. How far would the panels be below the sprinkler deflector?



Yes, the building is 6 stories.  The panel measures 1/2" below the deflector.


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## tmurray

Assuming NFPA 13 and that these are residential sprinkler heads, a minimum of 1'-6" would need to be provided between the head and any obstruction up to one inch below the head. There is no obstruction allowed below the deflector any closer than this. Again, this is very general information and without knowing more information about the system it's impossible to say for sure.


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## fork

tmurray said:


> Assuming NFPA 13 and that these are residential sprinkler heads, a minimum of 1'-6" would need to be provided between the head and any obstruction up to one inch below the head. There is no obstruction allowed below the deflector any closer than this. Again, this is very general information and without knowing more information about the system it's impossible to say for sure.



Thank you for the info TMurray.  Is this what's referred to as the Beam Rule and do you happen to know the section of 13 where this is located?


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## tmurray

fork said:


> Thank you for the info TMurray.  Is this what's referred to as the Beam Rule and do you happen to know the section of 13 where this is located?



Yes, it's commonly called the beam rule. NFPA 13, 2007 ed. 8.10.6.1.2.


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## cda

Seek professional local help


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## FM William Burns

13R not applicable this would have to be a 13 system and if the poster puts combustible material up to obstruct the existing protection scheme (hopefully complaint) there will be issues with concealed combustible space and obstruction issues.  This poster should hire the sprinkler firm of record redesign the area but that would probably not be feasible.  Therefore, liability is a mother and I would strongly recommend having the owner sign off on any renovation that will affect the fire protection system required for the building.  Bad things happen and if the alteration is not to code, a guy like me will have a field day with a loss and non-complaint system.


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