# Exit sign at Main Entrance



## Inspector 102 (Jan 2, 2013)

Under 2006 IBC, Section 1011.1 allows the exception at the main entrance if clearly an exit. What happens if there is a vestibule in conjunction with the main entrance. Is the vestibule the exception or the "interior" door with the vestibule becoming an extension of the manin entrance?

If the main entrance uses the exception is 1011.1 to eliminate the sign requirement, does that also eliminate the requirment in 1006.3(5) requiring illumination. I am discussing with electrician and he feels the two are together and if one is exempt, the other is too. I say these are two different sections and not to be combined. The building does require 2 exits.


----------



## steveray (Jan 2, 2013)

I have never used the "clearly identifiable" exception due to the fact that I do not want to make that judgement as to what that might be during an emergency for which people....the exit signage and egress lighting are 2 different requirements. He still needs discharge lighting and indoor as well.....


----------



## mark handler (Jan 2, 2013)

There is NO exception for lighting

1006.1 Illumination required. The means of egress, including

the exit discharge, shall be illuminated at all times the building

space served by the means of egress is occupied.

Exceptions:

1. Occupancies in Group U.

2. Aisle accessways in Group A.

3. Dwelling units and sleeping units in Groups R-l, R-2

and R-3.

4. Sleeping units of Group I, R -2.1 and R -4 occupancies.


----------



## mtlogcabin (Jan 2, 2013)

steveray said:
			
		

> I have never used the "clearly identifiable" exception due to the fact that I do not want to make that judgement as to what that might be during an emergency for which people....the exit signage and egress lighting are 2 different requirements. He still needs discharge lighting and indoor as well.....


I agree with steveray. It can be dark around here from 4:45 pm to 8:15 am during December and without sunlight an exit may not be "obvious" let alone "clearly indentifiable"


----------



## Mac (Jan 3, 2013)

Ditto the above - I'm not putting my name on an exemption for something as improtant as an egress component.


----------



## fatboy (Jan 3, 2013)

Agree with all the above......just do it.


----------



## FM William Burns (Jan 3, 2013)

We will allow the exception and 101 perrmits the same.  We will require an illuminated exit sign with secondary power at the access to the Vestibule and the Vestibule must have illumination.  The area within a Vestibule does not meet the intent of clearly identifiable when it comes to a "main exit" because the actual main exit doors may not be visible in route to the Vestibule.


----------



## kilitact (Jan 4, 2013)

Unless your jurisdiction and or state amended this exception out of the code how can you not approved its use short of making up the rules as you go or depending how your feeling on any day. Agree with FM Burns on the signage and illumination.


----------



## steveray (Jan 4, 2013)

Kilitact....

2. Main exterior exit doors or gates which obviously and "clearly are identifiable" as exits need not have exit signs "where approved by the building official".

On a bank of doors, I would not require at each one, at a small vestibule with one way in and one way out, I probably would not require them at both sets of doors, but I have seen architects trying to eliminate them for looks at a large "main exits"....and that I will not approve...The exception IS the exception...not the rule.



			
				kilitact said:
			
		

> Unless your jurisdiction and or state amended this exception out of the code how can you not approved its use short of making up the rules as you go or depending how your feeling on any day. Agree with FM Burns on the signage and illumination.


----------



## kilitact (Jan 4, 2013)

steveray said:
			
		

> Kilitact....2. Main exterior exit doors or gates which obviously and "clearly are identifiable" as exits need not have exit signs "where approved by the building official".
> 
> On a bank of doors, I would not require at each one, at a small vestibule with one way in and one way out, I probably would not require them at both sets of doors, but I have seen architects trying to eliminate them for looks at a large "main exits"....and that I will not approve...The exception IS the exception...not the rule.


If they comply with the the exceptions to the rule, which is the rule, has a code official you should approve.


----------



## mtlogcabin (Jan 4, 2013)

kilitact said:
			
		

> If they comply with the the exceptions to the rule, which is the rule, has a code official you should approve.


So what criteria do you use to determine an exit is obvious and clearly identifiable?


----------



## kilitact (Jan 4, 2013)

1) Exit signs are not required in rooms or areas that require only one exit or exit access.

2) Main exterior exit doors or gates that are obviously and clearly identifiable as exits need not have exit signs where approved by the building official.

3) Exit signs are not required in occupancies in Group U and individual sleeping units or dwelling units in Group R-1, R-2 or R-3.

4) Exit signs are not required in dayrooms, sleeping rooms or dormitories in occupancies in Group I-3.

5) In occupancies in Group A-4 and A-5, exit signs are not required on the seating side of vomitories or openings into seating areas where exit signs are provided in the concourse that are readily apparent from the vomitories. Egress lighting is provided to identify each vomitory or opening within the seating area in an emergency.

This the criteria that should be used, same as any other code section.

What code do you use?


----------



## mtlogcabin (Jan 4, 2013)

2) Main exterior exit doors or gates that are obviously and clearly identifiable as exits need not have exit signs where approved by the building official.

A 5,000 sq ft M occupancy. What criteria would you use to approve exception 2 is what I am interesting in knowing?


----------



## Pcinspector1 (Jan 4, 2013)

The best example I thought of would be you go to the dry cleaners through the main front door, wait for you clothing, a counter prevents you from entering the other parts of the business. You go out the obvious and only exit, the front door. No exit sign would be required unless its part of the overall egress system.

pc1


----------



## mtlogcabin (Jan 4, 2013)

I could agree with that example.


----------



## kilitact (Jan 4, 2013)

Well, how about a two story B occupancy, 20,000 square feet bldg. If the main exterior door (exit) is identifiable in itself and is the main exit exterior door which the occupants enter the building.


----------



## FM William Burns (Jan 4, 2013)

> A 5,000 sq ft M occupancy. What criteria would you use to approve exception 2 is what I am interesting in knowing?


Imagine a large Big Box with (3-4) main exit vestibules. The access points into the vestibule will be required to have exit signs but the area within the vestibule allow the bank of exit doors to be clearly identifiable. This is what the code intends, at least 101's take. There is no need to duplicate signage as long as the "directional" signage got the people to a location where there is a clearly identifiable "main exit". That's how we interpret it.

Regarding the exceptions, if the exception allows it it's code if accepted by the AHJ.


----------



## steveray (Jan 4, 2013)

) In occupancies in Group A-4 and A-5, exit signs are not required on the seating side of vomitories or openings into seating areas where exit signs are provided in the concourse that are readily apparent from the vomitories. Egress lighting is provided to identify each vomitory or opening within the seating area in an emergency.

Anyone here ever inspect a vomitory? What do you use for fresh air requirements? 

   Back to the matter at hand....yes with limited and case by case basis, some exit signs can be eliminated when they are redundant, not because the DP says "well you can see the doors"...And on that note...don't forget your braille signs at each exit discharge door.....1011.3...no exceptions!


----------

