# IMPC Unconstitutional and Unbiblical



## Francis Vineyard

More than 100 residents filled the seats and lined the walls at Tuesday's Upper Tyrone supervisors' meeting to voice their concerns about the board adopting the updated 2012 International Property Maintenance Code.

With more than 100 residents attending Tuesday's Upper Tyrone Township meeting to show their disgust for big government -- in particular the International Property Maintenance Code -- supervisors passed a motion to abolish adopting the 2012 edition.

Township resident the Rev. Dennis Kletzing began the meeting telling supervisors the code was not only unconstitutional, but unbiblical.

"This right to private property is so ingrained in the Word of God that two out of 10 commandments deal with private property," Kletzing said, adding that there are three amendments in the Bill of Rights that deal with private property.

"We're here tonight because we feel this ordinance restricts our right to do with our private property as we please," he said. "They are unconstitutional and they violate the law of God."

Many individuals were concerned with not being able to do on or with their property as they please.

That concern came after reading advertisements in the newspaper warning residents that with the IPMC the township could fine a resident if they did not have screens in their windows, if the bedrooms in their home were too small or even if the temperature inside their house was too low.

Several residents said the township does not need to be involved in any way with something that is international. Many felt there should be no ordinance at all dealing with codes or private property.

Supervisor Bill Edwards said the property maintenance codes were in place for safety

Read more: Upper Tyrone residents upset with property maintenance rules - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/dailycourier/s_786428.html#ixzz1pDhkOhWA

Francis
​


----------



## gbhammer

First time I've heard that the adoption of a building ordinance is unbiblical.


----------



## gbhammer

We AHJ's may be able to say the :devil made us do it. Half the time I'm either Hitler, or a communist; the other half I'm either a republican or a democrat. The Devil would be new.


----------



## Darren Emery

Very interesting... this is a topic that I come back to time and time again.  Where does protection of the property values and safety of the general public stop, and infringment of my personal rights start?


----------



## BSSTG

Greetings

Well I have to agree to a certain extent. The flip side is I don't think that it's really intended to deal with folks in their homesteads. Rental properties are a different story. I'm dealing with a slum lord right now that used to be mayor. For years pretty much did what he wanted to do until I came along. He flew off on me the other day yelling and cursing. Gotta love it. Lots of witnesses etc. Dealing with his type is what drives me. They want to argue code they found the right guy.

BS


----------



## mtlogcabin

Darren Emery said:
			
		

> Very interesting... this is a topic that I come back to time and time again. Where does protection of the property values and safety of the general public stop, and infringment of my personal rights start?


The general public stops at my property line

The IPMC is a good tool however like most codes once a juridiction adopts them then they are oblicated to enforece them and that is a job I do not want.


----------



## brudgers

Darren Emery said:
			
		

> Very interesting... this is a topic that I come back to time and time again.  Where does protection of the property values and safety of the general public stop, and infringment of my personal rights start?


    They start where they stop.  Where overwhelming firepower says they do.


----------



## fatboy

"They start where they stop.

  Where overwhelming firepower says they do."

Not sure where you are going with that............but.....

We have adopted the IPMC, and I grudgingly try to enforce it. But some things are so obvious that even I can see the line. 60 cats, confined in a home, 16 dogs, trash and waste piled up in a home knee deep, on top of the animal hoarding, just waiting for a few days in the 90's to get the scent out, and it does. I believe in a mans home is his castle, but when you are infringing on another persons right to enjoyment of their castle, then someone has to step in.  Part of the reason I live out in the sticks.......


----------



## Builder Bob

You better be sure to know the 4th admendment and the 6th admendment are followed to a "T"..... otherwise I smell lawsuits.

(Search and seizure, Due Process)

Mixed emotions on this as well.......

Some things are better left to private individuals such as Home owner Associations than having Big Brother step in........ Case Law will tell you that governemnt entities are held to a higher standard than private entities....


----------



## Alias

I have to agree with fatboy.  A man's home is his castle until his neighbors health and well being are threatened.  Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are fine but it also pertains to the neighbors.  They have the right to BBQ in their backyard too.


----------



## ewenme

I use the IPMC on a regular basis. There are slum lords who think it's okay to rent out sub-standard apartments/houses to 'students' when there are dangerous conditions, health issues, lack of heat, broken windows, faulty wiring...and the list could go on. I use the IPMC to bring the standard of housing up to the code minimum: which isn't any Taj Mahal or High-roller penthouse.  I also use the IPMC when it's time to condemn a dwelling; usually on the invite of the police who want the best for the tenant/owner who no longer has his/her faculties and needs help. When the bathtub is full of feces/urine, the toilet is full, there is no running water, no heat, no power, it's time for someone to step in and do what's right for the person living in such a hell. If relatives don't step up to help, then it falls to society to help. If we are not community oriented, then why are we doing what we do?

As a property owner I enjoy my rights and don't want someone else telling me what I can/can't do, but when I become a doddering old woman who can no longer manage my life's affairs, then I would hope someone else would see the situation and act. If not family, then who?


----------



## jpranch

I have mixed feelings about all this too. Here there are no regulations at all and has a result you can just imagine what some of the rental properties are like. There is only one rule, If you don't like it go live somewhere else.

Post Script: I would rather staple unspecified body parts to a tree then have to enforce the IPMC!


----------



## Coug Dad

ewenme,

When you are known as the Vandals, what conditon do you expect college housing to be in?


----------



## ewenme

Funny Coug Dad... do the Cougs wreak as much havoc? My daughter was a Coug and some of the rental housing over there was deplorable before the Rental Inspection program.


----------



## Coug Dad

My daughter lived in four different rentals in Pullman.  They were OK.  Good enough for a college student.  Cougs are just cute little pussy cats, not rascally vandals!


----------



## gbhammer

jpranch said:
			
		

> I have mixed feelings about all this too. Here there are no regulations at all and has a result you can just imagine what some of the rental properties are like. There is only one rule, If you don't like it go live somewhere else.Post Script: I would rather staple unspecified body parts to a tree then have to enforce the IPMC!


Better hope they never adopt the IPMC some one might site you for violation

302.9 Defacement of property. No person shall willfully or

wantonly damage, *mutilate or deface any exterior surface *of

any structure or building on any private or public property by

placing thereon any marking, carving or graffiti.

It shall be the responsibility of the owner to restore said surface

to an approved state of maintenance and repair.


----------



## Architect1281

As I was teaching the newly adopted 09 IMPC (heavily modified in RI due to merger of 2 existing state laws) when I got to the right of entry and explained thet there was none that consent was always required the lesson sidetracked for some time as the "Minimum Housing Inspectors" were sure the could just walk in and around a property cause they always did it. well the blood was in the water and it ended as I convinced them they were lucky that they never entered my property without an order from a judge


----------



## Architect1281

Even Lil Wayne agrees

http://entertainment.verizon.com/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CD9TIGC1G0%40news.ap.org%3E&ps=1016


----------



## Mark K

I am struck by the contrast between this discussion and other discussions related to inspectors imposing requirements that were not legally adopted.  In both cases it is important that those enforcing the requirements exercise care to not exceed their authority.


----------



## incognito

So don't adopt it. Within 1 year they will be begging you to adopt it because of the slum lord properties. Until then start educating the citizens as to what the IPMC actually is and does. It appears you are dealing with uneducated dolts who have been fed a plate of BS by landlords.


----------



## Frank

Alot of the search and seizure issues are avoided by doing enforcement on a complaint basis --typical interior complaint is my landlord won't fix this and won't let me out of the lease--tenant gives consent for entry.

Exterior complaints typically come from neighbor battles, real estate agents selling adjacent properties, and developers when the property owner won't sell so he can subdivide and replace one house on the nice old 5 acre lot with 20 on postage stamps.

Proactive enforcement by neighborhood, even just exterior from the street gets alot of howles of protest.


----------



## jim baird

Rights of property ownership have to be balanced by responsibilities of ownership.

We messed up when we violated that Universal Apple Maintenance Ordinance and got busted.


----------



## fatboy

Spot on Frank, that's the way it happens around here.


----------



## Papio Bldg Dept

same as frank's and fatboy's.


----------



## Alias

Papio Bldg Dept said:
			
		

> same as frank's and fatboy's.


I act only when a tenant complains in writing.


----------



## Papio Bldg Dept

Alias said:
			
		

> I act only when a tenant complains in writing.


We respond to phone calls, but they are documented in a shared access system and then routed to the CEO for follow-up.  I wish we only responded to written complaints.


----------

