# ATTIC OR STORY



## Rick18071 (Mar 9, 2010)

In a on going construction of a new building they added a stairway from the 2nd story to a large attic/story that was not on the plans. They told me that they want to finish the attic/story. I told them I need new plans showing the stairs and attic/story.

2006 IBC, two story 5B, use B, 1,500 sq. ft. area

Is this an attic or a third story? I can't find an answer in the IBC.


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## MarkRandall (Mar 9, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY

Yes,

if it has finish floor surface, it is a story.


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## High Desert (Mar 9, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY

See the definition for "Story". If it has a finished floor surface it will most likely be a story. It also may qualify for a mezzanine if it meets all the criteria in 505.


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## Mac (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY

Excellent!

(Mac settles in with coffee and waits.....)


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## Pcinspector1 (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY

Rick,

Not having all the info,

Q. Does the existing ceiling joist spans allow for a change to floor joist spans? are they using 2x6, 2x8, 2x10's? Also will you have the correct ceiling heights in the new attic area?


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## JBI (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY

Mac - Pour me a cup too, this could be a long one...   :roll:


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## texasbo (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY

Lovely...

Light fuse, stand clear. texasbo ducks and covers.


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## Coug Dad (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY

Just curious.         Would the stairway requirements be different if it is an attic or occupied space?   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :twisted:


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## brudgers (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY



			
				Coug Dad said:
			
		

> Just curious.         Would the stairway requirements be different if it is an attic or occupied space?   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :twisted:


The attic can use a ladder.


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## Gene Boecker (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY

*sips coffee and clicks away on the keyboard*

Huh?!  Wah!?

Oh, it's a story.

(and I'm sticking to it!)


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## Rick18071 (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY

I don't understand why the floor needs to have a finish to be a story. Why can't it just be plywood. Don't see anything about a finished floor in the definiton. What if there is a finshed floor but only a 6' ceiling?

I would think it would have to meet the mimimum room width and height for a habitable space (IBC 1208) to be a story, but it doesn't say this in the IBC.

I worried that the stair way that was already built (not on plans) to the attic/3rd story might not meet travel distance, the accessible means of egress, and might be required to have an accessable route. I will go over this when I get new plans.


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY

A 3 story V-B construction B occupancy exceeds the height limit in Table 503 unless it is sprinklered

Be careful with this one. Some might be trying to pull a fast one over on you :shock:


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## FredK (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY

Getting some popcorn ready.  Anyone else want some?


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## MarkRandall (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY

Hand me the popcorn...Plywood could certainly be the finish floor. There's nothing in the code saying carpet is required over a plywood floor.

A few have brought up other questions. Yes there's a little more to it, but I would assume the question wouldn't come up if the space didn't have adequate head room, etc.


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## Gene Boecker (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY

*stretches and sips another cup of coffee*

YOW! that's hot!

*Do I smell popcorn?*


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## Mule (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORYFrom the 2006 IBC CommentaryATTIC. The space between the ceiling beams of the top story and the roof rafters. • The definition of "Attic" identifies the specific portion of a building or structure for the purposes of determining the applicability of requirements that are specific to at¬tics, such as ventilation (see Section 1202) and draftstopping (see Section 716). Additionally, the code has access requirements (see Section 1208) and uni¬formly distributed live load requirements (see Table 1607.1) for attics. An attic is considered the space or area located immediately below the roof sheathing within the roof framing system of a building. Pitched roof systems, such as gabled, hip, sawtoothed or curved roofs, all create spaces between the roof sheathing and ceiling membrane, which are consid¬ered attics.STORY. That portion of a building included between the upper surface of a floor and the upper surface of the floor or roof next above (also see "Mezzanine" and Section 502.1). It is mea¬sured as the vertical distance from top to top of two successive tiers of beams or finished floor surfaces and, for the topmost story, from the top of the floor finish to the top of the ceiling joists or, where there is not a ceiling, to the top of the roof raf¬ters. .:. All levels in a building that conform to this description are stories, including basements. A mezzanine is con¬sidered part of the story in which it is located. See Chapter 5 for code requirements regarding limitations on the number of stories in a building as a function of the type of construction. See Section 1617 for limits on story drift from earthquake effects. STORY ABOVE GRADE PLANE. Any story having its fin¬ished floor surface entirely above grade plane, except that a basement shall be considered as a story above grade plane where the finished surface of the floor above the basement is: 1.	More than 6 feet (1829 mm) above grade plane; or 2.	More than 12 feet (3658 mm) above the finished ground level at any point. • :. The determination of a story above grade is important because it contributes to the height of a building for the purpose of applying the allowable building height in stories from Tables 503 and 1018.2. Every story with the finished floor entirely above grade (finished ground level) is a story above grade; however, a story with any portion of the finished floor level below grade is by definition a basement, and must be evaluated in conformance to the two criteria for story above grade. These two criteria are intended to deal with unusual grading of ground adjacent to exterior walls. Without such a consideration, the resulting building height can be reduced because of a berm or other landscaping technique that may be artificially created to reduce the apparent building height. The specific criteria establish the point at which a basement extends far enough above ground that it contributes to the regulated height of the building in number of stories. And from the 2009 IRC...I know this in an IBC issue but there is a good diagram of Grade Plane

View attachment 86


View attachment 86


/monthly_2010_07/GradePlane.jpg.151cc83d55a43ece43a1215bb8b8cdea.jpg


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## north star (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY

*- - An incorrect posting used to be here!  - -*


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY

From the OP



> In a on going construction of a new building


Chapter 34 is not applicable


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## north star (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY

*Oooooppps!   My mistake!    * 

*I'll go back and remove my incorrect posting.*

*And thanks for catching my mistake!*


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## peach (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY

2009 IRC adds a "habitable attic" which is not counted as a story.  (actually, it's attic, habitable)..

You can now have technically, 5 habitable levels in a SFD..


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## FM William Burns (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY

Peach,

Yea, that’s a genius idea, but already commented my rant about that one.


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## peach (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY

guess I missed your rant...

I can only think that the ICC code making body was assuming new (sprinklered) construction only.. and not vertical additions..


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## Rick18071 (Mar 11, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY

Thanks guys. Looks like a story. Still waiting for new plans. Might be awhile, job started in '08


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## FM William Burns (Mar 11, 2010)

Re: ATTIC OR STORY

Peach,

It was in off topic thread UB started on the code changes and specifically the one allowing "habitable attic"


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