# Fire apparatus access road dead end/turn around



## beach (Sep 25, 2013)

IFC Section 503.2.5 Dead ends. states that dead end fire access roads in excess of 150' are required to have an approved turn around area, the 2006 Code and Commentary gives a pretty good explanation as to why (backing out large vehicles, etc.) My question is where did the 150' number come from?

My gut feeling is:

1. Slower response due to emergency vehicle making wrong turn and having to back out. (150' is a reasonable distance to back in a timely manner?)

We are in the process of finishing up our local amendments and the Chief posed the question as to where they came up with 150 feet max. length.

any input is appreciated


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## cda (Sep 25, 2013)

lets see what the rabbit comes with when we pull it out of the hat


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## cda (Sep 25, 2013)

maybe 150 preconnect?

as in reach all portions of a building with 150

503.1.1 2009 ifc

so if you set on the street you can strech the preconnect and still reach all portions, otherwise give me a fire lane


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## beach (Sep 25, 2013)

> maybe 150 preconnect?


That was my first guess, but it was shot down.... it still makes sense to me, though

Thanks!


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## cda (Sep 25, 2013)

well i read the commentary just now and that is what it says and even shows a pretty picture of the idea


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## beach (Sep 25, 2013)

When I brought up the pre-connect theory, I was asked this: "Lets say we have a public street with a 300' dead end, and there are no buildings on this street. Is a turn around required?"

My answer was yes, because the code requires a turn around when the dead end is over 150' feet, it doesn't mention if the street has buildings around or in the vicinity of it.

Then I was asked where the 150' distance came from.....why not 100' or 200'?

So..... my next best guess so far is that the apparatus would have to back out if it mistakenly went into that dead end on an emergency call, which would affect response time because it would have to back out.... and possibly anything over 150' was not reasonable

I think access to buildings/facilities and dead end turnarounds are two different things


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## cda (Sep 25, 2013)

Ok now the chief is talking monkeys and uncles

Most cities have regulations for public street design, and should include turnaround, dead end provisions

Let heffe know that the streets are not only for the big red trucks but other traffic such as trash trucks tractor trailers etc

Where there are private streets or shopping centers or such non public streets I take it the fire code more applies

And once again the road yes is designed for ease of firefighters but also other vehicles


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## beach (Sep 25, 2013)

Good point!


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## cda (Sep 25, 2013)

beach said:
			
		

> Good point!


Hay the clock hits twelve every so often

Good luck

So what does heffe want to push it to?

This is why fire prevention should be a mandated position for three or four years before you are a heffe

And I guess he does not have to pull hose anymore


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## Francis Vineyard (Sep 25, 2013)

cda topic revisit from 2003; Dead End Access Roads (902.2.2.4)

Francis


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## cda (Sep 25, 2013)

Francis Vineyard said:
			
		

> cda topic revisit from 2003; Dead End Access Roads (902.2.2.4)Francis


Slow today did I miss the bus?


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