# drain piping in exterior walls



## DWM

i typically try to discourage piping in exterior walls ( per the IL plbg code, energy code & IRC ) recently with certain bldrs it is becomming more common- does anyone else have similar concerns? when it is installed, I push for stack testing (siding nails penetrating the pipe has been an issue) any thoughts? i am new to this type of forum & BB environment

thanx!!


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## Durant

DWM,

Welcome to the forum.

I just make sure they wrap the water lines "individually" with insulation pipe wrap and any p-traps in exterior walls (like for clothes washer drains).  But, you have more severe winters than we do in Oklahoma and Texas.

Please stay and become part of the forum.

Durant


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## codeworks

where in the irc does it say about  prohibiting  plumbing in exterior walls ? i've always been of the mind set that "plumbing walls" were built for exterior OR interior plumbing .  what do you in commercial construction with sprinkler piping, make them go only to interior as well. doesn't make sense to me. not looking to start a arguement, but please explain your position.


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## north star

*= = =*

**DWM**,

Welcome to The Building Codes Forum! 

The bldrs. in your area are going to do whatever they want

to until you apply the codes and various inspections.

Installing the plbg. in the exterior walls in some locations

is not much of a problem, ...in others, because of the

weather it might be more problematic if thermal insulation

is not installed or installed inproperly......Approved type

nail guards are required to protect the piping from the

penetrations you mentioned.

While the testing of all dwv piping is required, ...you may

have a tough fight on your hands on this one......I have been

trying to require testing of all dwv for years now and I

keep getting the same excuses, and my boss gets the

telephone calls, so I have to "pick my battles".....You may

have to also!

Good luck and keep on posting your questions on here.

This Forum is waaaaaaaaaaayyyyy cool!

*# # #*


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## tmurray

I always enjoy walking into a framing inspections where the plumber has run a supply pipe along an exterior wall and someone has written beside the pipe; "This pipe will freeze!!!". Generally we only see waste and vent piping in exterior walls due to freezing, but I'm in Canada.


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## steveray

P2603.6 Freezing.

In localities having a winter design temperature of 32°F (0°C) or lower as shown in Table R301.2(1) of this code, a water, soil or waste pipe shall not be installed outside of a building, in exterior walls, in attics or crawl spaces, or in any other place subjected to freezing temperature unless adequate provision is made to protect it from freezing by insulation or heat or both. Water-service pipe shall be installed not less than 12 inches (305 mm) deep or less than 6 inches (152 mm) below the frost line.

There is nothing for protecting pipes where they are not passing through a stud or plate......But you could probably require the siding be on for rough inspections as a matter of policy....


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## DWM

in builder freindly communities most battles are difficult. the code requires testing but even that becomes difficult to enforce. we have settled for just filling the tubs, letting them all go at the same time as that is the most water that typ. enter the system. we have 160 new homes so far this year. ive been here 8 yrs and this is the slowest we have been. now we require radon, sprinklers and the energy code for residential so i see the numbers dropping a bit for a while. we also have a new building official ( so this forum will be a huge asset) Thanx!


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## David Henderson

What kind of excuses do you all get to not plug it off and fill it thru the roof/ never had anyone balk here.


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## steveray

No water supply or freezing in winter unless they blow out the traps......You did say "excuses"....not reasons..... 



			
				David Henderson said:
			
		

> What kind of excuses do you all get to not plug it off and fill it thru the roof/ never had anyone balk here.


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## codeworks

p2603.6 "unless adequate protection is taken" . i'm from an area where tradesman JUST DO IT, because thats the way we were brought up in the trades, here they cry to the point of pi$$ing themselves, when they get written up for simple code violations that shouldn't even be an issue if they knew what they were doing. however, because they are not true trades persons, they cry and complain. i see way to many "armchair contractors"  Read hack(salesmen) ! they buy a truck, busines cards, and hire whoever to do whatever, and have zip for skill and knowledge.


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## north star

*- - - =*





> "What kind of excuses do you all get to not plug it off and fill it thru the roof / never had anyone balk here."


In this AHJ, most of the excuses involve laziness, ...the `ol"we been doin' it this way for 30 yrs. and I ain't never had

to do it before", and "they don't make me do it over in XYZ

location" and just plain ignorance of the requirement.......Most

of the plumbers know about it, ...but they also know that they

can cry and complain about it and not have to do it if they

cry to the right people.:banghd

Me thinks that the players on this here "Code Playing Field"

ain't all playing by the same rules...

*= - - -*


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## Durant

I'm in a "good ole boy" State; and I mean the whole State.  Sometimes it makes you want to hire Packsaddle's Vigilanties to come in round'em up and move'em out.  Most of these plumbers have never seen an properly installed island vent and bring a 3" drain up in the middle of the cabinet floor under the sink and cap it and trap the two compartments seperately; you can't set a pop bottle under the sink.  Cleanout plugs are neoprene caps with clamps.  They build ponds called "lagoons" and dump sewage directly into them.  I don't drink the water anywhere in this State.  Just a few examples.

So, when you get frustrated just be greatful that your not a building official or inspector in Oklahoma


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## Msradell

Actually it doesn't sound like you have much to inspect!  What code requirements do you use?


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## pwood

Msradell said:
			
		

> Actually it doesn't sound like you have much to inspect! What code requirements do you use?


 the code of silence, don't ask don't tell!  Durant has my sympathies for the daily battle he faces. Been there done that ,still mopping up after 11 years of battling here.


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## codeworks

is it the nature of our business that even though we have all these boks, and rules that basically become laws once adopted, the hypocrisy is such that when trying to enforce them, " we don't ask for that" or "we've never looked at it that way here" exists. what the h is up with that. if the ahj i came to work for adopted these codes, i should be able to require it, request it and get it without a huge fight or with out loosing my legs below the knees if a higher up decides not to fully back my call.  but it doesn't seem to work that way. i call it "tee pee talk" where one gets "bits and pieces of how it's been done in the past and how we'll do it now", but it isn't written down as a policy.


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## Builder Bob

The energy code may be the best answer for this application  -


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## codeworks

hahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahah


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## lunatick

What is the framing like.

Would you permit a second wall built up against the first?

What is your opinion of filling a third of the 2x6 cavity with spray foam and requiring an inch or two of continuous rigid on the exterior and having all plumbing installed tight to the interior?


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## Durant

I don't suppose reading the code and following it is an option?

Could be fun to start up a nationwide organization and have that organization start filling lawsuits against municipalities that don't enforce the codes they adopt.  How about Citizen Environment Protection League, lol.  Would give us anonimity and some teeth to protect the public with.

While I have a few peaceful moments this morning I'll post under Code Administration a local city's ridiculous attemt at code adoption.


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## mtlogcabin

> P2603.6 Freezing. In localities having a winter design temperature of 32°F (0°C) or lower as shown in Table R301.2(1) of this code


If you want to find the winter design temps for your area go to Appendix D in the IPC

With the exception of Hawai every state has an area with a winter design temp of 32 degrees or less.

We have many older homes where the drain and waste vents are installed in un-insulated crawlspaces exterior walls and even on the exterior of the hous and never freeze as long as there isn't a trap there hasn't been a problem.

Water lines definately need lots of insulation and never install in an exterior wall. Heck the will freeze in a cabinet next to an exterior wall.


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## codeworks

dude, don't make waves, you last long.


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