# Restrooms not allowed to be outside building?



## BayPointArchitect (May 2, 2013)

This bed and breakfast owner has a large house with five legitimate toilet fixtures.

Handicap accessibility is okay.

Now he also has a 100 year old barn that he is wantint to convert into an assembly use.

He wants to preserve the old character of the barn... etcetera.

Our plumbing inspector will not give him any credit for having the five toilets located within 90 feet of this barn but requires new restrooms to be built within the same building.

Question:

Where is it located within the Uniform Plumbing Code (2009 UPC) that requires toilet fixtures to be located within the same building?

I would like to say that if they restrooms are located within 150 (+/-), then we are okay.  But this is not my area of authority.

Thanks in advance for your answer.


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## mark handler (May 2, 2013)

TheUPC does not address A occupancy travel distance only B and M


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## globe trekker (May 2, 2013)

Will the existing 5 toilets be sufficient enough in number to accomodate the additional

occupant loading in the "new" A?

.


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## Mech (May 2, 2013)

I do not have a copy of the UPC, but you probably need to know the Assembly and R-1(?) occupant loads to determine the number of required plumbing fixtures.


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## mtlogcabin (May 2, 2013)

IBC    1104.2 Within a site.

At least one accessible route shall connect accessible buildings, accessible facilities, accessible elements and accessible spaces that are on the same site .                                                             I believe it is permissible provide you have the correct fixture count.


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## jeffc (May 2, 2013)

We have allowed many small coffee stands to have a shared bathroom agreement with a detached building on the same site.


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## mark handler (May 2, 2013)

jeffc said:
			
		

> we have allowed many small coffee stands to have a shared bathroom agreement with a detached building on the same site.


A coffee stand is an M not A


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## BayPointArchitect (May 3, 2013)

After talking with IAPMO's UPC Answers & Analysis (909) 472-4109 (Matt Sigler), the 500 feet between B & M occupancies (and anything else typically found within a covered shopping mall) is intended for those public restrooms to be located within a covered shopping mall.

There is nothing specific within the UPC that requires each occupancy type and/or each separate building to provide restroom facilities within that same building envelope.  It is only implied and subject to interpretation by the local AHJ.  The required location of restrooms is difficult to answer unless they are within the context of a covered mall.

Aside from the fact that the location of toilet fixtures is ambiguous and subjective, it is critical to start this discussion by looking at Table 4-1 which requires 3 toilets for 50 women, 1 toilet and 1 urinal for 50 men.  Otherwise the only answer I get is "Table 4-1".  Okay, now that we have answered that question about the number of plumbing fixtures required...

In this particular instance, the AHJ has already determined that the new handicap accessible restrooms within the Bed and Breakfast located 150 feet away will not suffice - regardless of Table 4-1.  Because those fixtures are not located in the barn, then there needs to be an additional 3 W.C. for women plus 1 W.C. and urinal for the men built within the 100 year old barn.  Unless the Board of Appeals can overturn the decision by the chief plumbing inspector.


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## ICE (May 3, 2013)

Build a covered walkway from the barn to the bed and breakfast and make it one building.  It would be a drag to walk 90' in a downpour.


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## north star (May 3, 2013)

*= : =*





> "Build a covered walkway from the barn to the bed and breakfast and make it one building.It would be a drag to walk 90' in a downpour."





> "He wants to preserve the old character of the barn... etcetera."


Don't believe a covered breezeway will _"preserve the old__character of the barn"._

*: = :*


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## Alias (May 3, 2013)

How about a separate building to house the WCs close to the barn?  They do this for historical parks, playgrounds, campgrounds, etc.

Sue


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## mark handler (May 3, 2013)

If you are under the IBC chapter 29

2902.5 Location of employee toilet facilities in mercantile and assembly occupancies.

Employees shall be provided with toilet facilities in building and tenant spaces utilized as restaurants, nightclubs, places of public assembly and mercantile occupancies. The employee facilities shall be either separate facilities or combined employee and public facilities. The required toilet facilities shall be located not more than one story above or below the employees’ work area and the path of travel to such facilities, in other than covered malls, shall not exceed a distance of 500 feet (152 m). The path of travel to required facilities in covered malls shall not exceed a distance of 300 feet (91 m).

Exception: Employee toilet facilities shall not be required in tenant spaces where the travel distance from the main entrance of the tenant spaces to a central toilet area does not exceed 300 feet (91 m) and such central toilet facilities are located not more than one story above or below the tenant space.


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## Mech (May 3, 2013)

> Don't believe a covered breezeway will _"preserve the old__character of the barn"._


Build the covered breezeway from barn beams and barn board.

Can they build an addition for the restrooms that opens into the barn?  Match the addition's exterior with the barn's exterior.  Perhaps they can use a concrete floor and plaster walls (plaster over stone foundation walls) to match that in use of other barns that age.  Make the sinks from slate or other type of stone.  Build wooden boxes around and above the toilets to replicate an outhouse seat.


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## pwood (May 9, 2013)

Mech said:
			
		

> Build the covered breezeway from barn beams and barn board.. Build wooden boxes around and above the toilets to replicate an outhouse seat.


those will smell real good real quick. The code has rules regarding what type of materials are use around toilets and urinals for a reason.


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## Pcinspector1 (May 13, 2013)

Hey sister can I borrow some TP, "Sorry, not a square to spare!"

Kinda hard to operate a wheelchair in 6" of snow but does'nt look like its required in the "A-occupancy!"

pc1


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## mark handler (May 13, 2013)

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> Hey sister can I borrow some TP, "Sorry, not a square to spare!"Kinda hard to operate a wheelchair in 6" of snow but does'nt look like its required in the "A-occupancy!"
> 
> pc1


Not required, in, any occupancy, that i know of


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## BSSTG (Aug 14, 2013)

OK so what was the end result here?

BSSTG


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## cda (Aug 14, 2013)

Depends????

http://www.totalhomecaresupplies.com/CategoryDetail.aspx?CategoryName=_z_Brand_Depend


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## mjesse (Aug 14, 2013)

BSSTG said:
			
		

> OK so what was the end result here?BSSTG





			
				cda said:
			
		

> Depends????Depend Diapers | Incontinence Supplies | TotalHomeCareSupplies


Have you two comedians been working on this since the last post in May??

Good one.


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## Pcinspector1 (Aug 19, 2013)

mark handler said:
			
		

> A coffee stand is an M not A


I'm still scratch'n about a coffee stand being a "M" occupancy, not an "A-2" occupancy? Is the key word "stand" like a fruit stand or fireworks stand like you would see along a Califorina highway?

Is a Starbucks a "M" occupancy? In some cases a coffee stand could be a "B" occupancy if occupant load is less than 50 and its in a building or tenant space.

pc1


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## mark handler (Aug 19, 2013)

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> I'm still scratch'n about a coffee stand being a "M" occupancy, not an "A-2" occupancy? Is the key word "stand" like a fruit stand or fireworks stand like you would see along a Califorina highway? Is a Starbucks a "M" occupancy? In some cases a coffee stand could be a "B" occupancy if occupant load is less than 50 and its in a building or tenant space.
> 
> pc1


You are right


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