# Outlet receptacles above grid system?



## Pcinspector1 (Mar 22, 2011)

While conducting an above ceiling inspection I noticed several double duplex outlets just above the ceiling grid, I 'm not sure if this is allowed? It appears they could be used for window neon lights with the plug above the ceiling tile which I believe is a violation.

I can not fine this section of the code, anyone?


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## raider1 (Mar 22, 2011)

The receptacles are OK, you just can't plug in a flexible cord. 

The code section is 400.8(2) & (5).

Chris


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## fatboy (Mar 22, 2011)

"The receptacles are OK, you just can't plug in a flexible cord.:smile:"

Now that's a good one.......


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## Pcinspector1 (Mar 22, 2011)

fatboy,

I agree with the raider, outlets are ok but you can't run a flexible cord with plug through the ceiling tile. When I checked, the outlets on the plans submitted where below the grid, electrican mistake.

Electrican 0 code official 1 with an assist to raider. Architect was on his game and took his ball home!

wierd, that you can have outlets with limited use above a grid system!

pc1


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## chris kennedy (Mar 22, 2011)

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> I agree with the raider, outlets are ok but you can't run a flexible cord with plug through the ceiling tile.


Lets say you have an access control panel mounted above the grid. If the panel is supplied with a flexible cord listed in T400.4, even thought it does not pass through the ceiling, still a violation of 400.8(5).



> wierd, that you can have outlets with limited use above a grid system!


The same access control panel mentioned above could be powered by a class 2 wall wart with external secondary terminals and a class 2 wiring method and be legal. Also I believe 210.63 requires me to install a receptacle outlet above drop ceilings for servicing HVAC equipment installed there.


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## raider1 (Mar 22, 2011)

Chris Kennedy said:
			
		

> Also I believe 210.63 requires me to install a receptacle outlet above drop ceilings for servicing HVAC equipment installed there.


I don't see where 210.63 would require the service receptacle to be installed above the suspended ceiling. The term "On the same level" could be debated but I don't see that requiring the receptacle to be located above the suspended ceiling if the HVAC equipment was located above the ceiling.

Chris


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## chris kennedy (Mar 22, 2011)

raider1 said:
			
		

> The term "On the same level"


Time to get back to the books sir. The definition of 'same level' appears just before the def of 'severe physical damage' in art 100.


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## raider1 (Mar 22, 2011)

chris kennedy said:
			
		

> Time to get back to the books sir. The definition of 'same level' appears just before the def of 'severe physical damage' in art 100.


You have got to love ambiguity.   

Chris


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## earshavewalls (Mar 23, 2011)

I sure hope the above ceiling space is not being used as a plenum for return air.....especially if they used plastic faceplates...........I really wish the the CMPs would accept the amendments submitted to simply state that receptacles are not permitted above suspended ceilings, and get it over with!!!


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## raider1 (Mar 23, 2011)

earshavewalls said:
			
		

> I sure hope the above ceiling space is not being used as a plenum for return air.....especially if they used plastic faceplates...........I really wish the the CMPs would accept the amendments submitted to simply state that receptacles are not permitted above suspended ceilings, and get it over with!!!


Why should receptacles be banned above suspended ceilings? The receptacle itself is not a danger, it is the use of flexible cord that is the issue.

Chris


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## earshavewalls (Mar 24, 2011)

How would you use them........legally, that is? It only stands to reason that if you can't use flexible cord above a ceiling, and the only wiring method that you can install a plug on IS flexible cord........well, that's all I have to say about that.......(Gump).


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## Mule (Mar 24, 2011)

Could you use them as a maintenance item. You need to use a drill or screw gun and you actually have an electric drill...plug it in and use the drill for a few minutes and be done. Or would thst violate the code? I guess it wouldn't if you didn't get caught!


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## TimNY (Mar 24, 2011)

I can picture wifi hot spots plugged into them...


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## raider1 (Mar 24, 2011)

earshavewalls said:
			
		

> How would you use them........legally, that is? It only stands to reason that if you can't use flexible cord above a ceiling, and the only wiring method that you can install a plug on IS flexible cord........well, that's all I have to say about that.......(Gump).





			
				TimNY said:
			
		

> I can picture wifi hot spots plugged into them...


As Tim pointed out "Wall Warts" are low voltage power supplies for Wifi systems and they do not have any flexible cord as listed in Article 400 so they are not prohibited from being installed on a receptacle above a suspended ceiling.

Chris


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## peach (Mar 26, 2011)

I'm kind of thinking condensate pumps here.. the pump needs to be above the grid sometimes.. are we suggesting that the EC take the cord off, re-wire the assembly and hard wire it into a J box.. and that's it's somehow safer?

thanks


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## raider1 (Mar 28, 2011)

peach said:
			
		

> I'm kind of thinking condensate pumps here.. the pump needs to be above the grid sometimes.. are we suggesting that the EC take the cord off, re-wire the assembly and hard wire it into a J box.. and that's it's somehow safer?thanks


Peach, there are condensate pumps that do not come with a cord and are designed for hard wiring with a Chapter 3 wiring method. Don't let someone cut off a cord on a condensate pump as that will void the UL listing.

Chris


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