# Who's the plumber?



## ICE

Your general building contractor license means that you can pull a permit to install a water heater but I think the theory is that you have an actual plumber do the work.  You put an 18" high stand under it because it's in a laundry room and didn't install an emergency drain pan.  You reused a 50 year old gas shut off valve that has no handle.  You flattened the flexible water line, didn't secure the vent connector to the draft hood because, well there was no draft hood, and the total length of the vent is 3.5 feet.  You put it in a room that is 60 sq. ft., blocked off by doors and has no combustion air openings.

All of these mistakes are understandable.  By that I mean that you not being a plumber is excuse enough for making these mistakes.  Well now comes the mistake shown in the picture.  You installed a valve that can't close because the handle hits the water heater.

Odds are pretty good that you will call and ask me if you can shorten the handle.  Oh Hell No!  Remove the 18" stand when you install the smitty pan and then the water heater will clear the valve and the vent length will be back to 5'.  If I must teach you how to do this you will do a fine job of it.  That means that if you don't call and ask about shortening the handle, then shorten the handle, it's not too late to do the work over, it never is.

A few salient facts.  The contractor pulled a permit for a re-roof.  He didn't know that there would be a reason for me to meet the owner and go inside to verify detectors.  I did that and as I was leaving, the owner asked me if I wanted to see the water heater or the receptacles. Shirley I do, said I.  I Shirley want you to, said he.  And yes we have no permits.

The contractor walked on as I was leaving.  I gave him the notice and he scanned tit.  His only comment was "Permits? Are you sure?"  I had my chance when he flagged me down to tell me that he installed GFCI receptacles.  I told him to Google tamper resistant.


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## mark handler

Wasn't Joe the plumber?


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## fireguy

How about I just make the dent in the tank bigger? Will it pass then?


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## ICE

fireguy said:
			
		

> How about I just make the dent in the tank bigger? Will it pass then?


Would you be willing to use your forehead?


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## mtlogcabin

A little more offset in the handle and it will work just fine.


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## globe trekker

...or just cut the handle off, ..say about half way, and the "con"-tractor is off to his next victim.

.


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## Frank

Between flex in tank shell and handle bend is should work.

You just did not pull hard enough on it.


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## Francis Vineyard

Window shopping at my local plumbing store and notice ball valves with "wing" handles and then I found this


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## Pcinspector1

Nice Francis, real nice!!

"See it all comes out clean in the wash", problem solved!

pc1


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## GCtony

I don't keep up with this residential stuff but; why is a permit required for changing a water heater but no permit required to change out a split sytem AC unit?


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## Francis Vineyard

GCtony said:
			
		

> I don't keep up with this residential stuff but; why is a permit required for changing a water heater but no permit required to change out a split sytem AC unit?


Required for fuel gas appliance because of venting and combustion air.


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## GCtony

Francis Vineyard said:
			
		

> Required for fuel gas appliance because of venting and combustion air.


As Homer would say..."Doh"  (smacking myself on the farhead) Thank you sir.


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## GCtony

So I wonder how many gas water heaters get replaced vs. how may permits are pulled to replace them?


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## Francis Vineyard

GCtony said:
			
		

> I don't keep up with this residential stuff but; why is a permit required for changing a water heater but no permit required to change out a split sytem AC unit?


Get this question all the time. Owing to changes in new equipment have found existing breakers, disconnects and conductors in violation for the new outside unit during an inspection for the replacement furnace, I've encouraged home owners to have the AC units inspected though a permit is not normally required.



			
				GCtony said:
			
		

> So I wonder how many gas water heaters get replaced vs. how may permits are pulled to replace them?


Seeing new energy saver water heaters are taller installed without changes made to the vent to correct the slope; inspecting boilers lacking adequate combustion air in basements that have since been finished and the pictures from our colleague on this forum ICE; scary thought.

Francis


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## steveray

Had a contractor in my office yesterday insisting that he didn't need a permit in X town to change a furnace because it was less than $5000.....and then it was in a tiny closet with insufficent combustion air when I got there.....


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## ICE

GCtony said:
			
		

> I don't keep up with this residential stuff but; why is a permit required for changing a water heater but no permit required to change out a* split sytem AC unit*?


I suspect that few jurisdictions do not require a permit.


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## ICE

GCtony said:
			
		

> So I wonder how many gas water heaters get replaced vs. how may permits are pulled to replace them?


50 to 1 sounds about right.


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## Frank

GCtony said:
			
		

> I don't keep up with this residential stuff but; why is a permit required for changing a water heater but no permit required to change out a split sytem AC unit?


In Virginia the rules are quirky in that permits are required for residential water heater and furnace replacements only when fueled by gas or oil.

Solid fueled replacements are exempt from permits!?!

The reasoning is that replacement of electric units is low risk but gas and oil unit's are higher risk particularly CO posioning risk if improperly vented.


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## GCtony

Frank, How about replacement of roof top gas package units on commercial?

All these houses built in the last 15 years that have undersized split systems that will get replaced with correct sized units. I wonder how many get correct breaker and wire upgrades?  In my house, I just replaced a 20 yr old 5 ton with a new "high efficency" 5 ton.  Had to change wire and breakers to 50A.  (no permit) Now that I'm thinking about it; I don't have a service outlet within 25' of the outdoor unit.  Funny thing is; my "top notch" HVAC contractor or electrician (I use on all my commercial projects) never said a word.


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