# Non-IC or IC Recessed Lights in Soffit area



## bozobozo (Jun 22, 2012)

This is new construction.  

We are considering using 4" rececessed lights in the kitchen/bath soffits  in order to avoid putting recessed lights in the ceiling and adding the potential air leaks.



My question is, can we use both IC and non-IC lights in the soffit.  The soffit will be totally sealed (front, back, top bottom) and no insullation in the soffit itself.  The attic area above the soffit will be R60 cellulose


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## TheCommish (Jun 22, 2012)

doe the manufacutr have any ventlation  or  free air space requirements? I  see no reason to needed IC rated fixture as you describe


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## codeworks (Jun 22, 2012)

either one will work, so long as you follow 410.116 (2008) nec.  basically, for non ic cans, maintain 1/2 inch from combustibles, minimum clearance from thermal insulation is 3". if you've got that, you're good to go.


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## fatboy (Jun 22, 2012)

Ditto to above, have manufacturers spec's on hand.


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## Gregg Harris (Jun 22, 2012)

bozobozo said:
			
		

> This is new construction.  We are considering using 4" rececessed lights in the kitchen/bath soffits  in order to avoid putting recessed lights in the ceiling and adding the potential air leaks.
> 
> 
> 
> My question is, can we use both IC and non-IC lights in the soffit.  The soffit will be totally sealed (front, back, top bottom) and no insullation in the soffit itself.  The attic area above the soffit will be R60 cellulose


Pay close attention to 410.115 and look at 410.116 B  even though there is no insulation in the soffit to be in contact with the light the R 60 above the drywall will still contain the heat within the soffit. I would contend the lights should be  type IC.


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## Dennis (Jun 22, 2012)

The NEC allows the non IC in any ceiling where it is not in contact with the insulation.


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## Pcinspector1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Agree with Gregg Harris, if the soffit has no way to provide air ciculation and can trap heat it should be an IC fixture even if there is no insulation contact with the can light.

pc1


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## Pcinspector1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Bozobozo did say the soffit will be totally sealed!

pc1


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## Dennis (Jun 27, 2012)

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> Bozobozo did say the soffit will be totally sealed!pc1


So if a house is built such that the insulation is in the roof rafters and the attic space is sealed (an envelope), would you also require IC cans???


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## pwood (Jun 27, 2012)

automatic  thermal shutdown feature is handy for cans.


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## Dennis (Jun 27, 2012)

pwood said:
			
		

> automatic  thermal shutdown feature is handy for cans.


  I totally agree but non IC cans also have thermal protection they are just set a little higher.


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## Gregg Harris (Jun 28, 2012)

Sort of off topic to the OP 2009 Energy Code 402.4.5 Recessed Lighting

Recessed luminaires installed in the buildings thermal envelope, shall be sealed to limit the air leakage between conditioned spaces and unconditioned spaces.

All recessed luminairs shall be IC rated and labeled as meeting ASTME 283 when tested at 1.57 psf or (75 pascals) pressure differential, with no more than 2.0 cfm(0.944L/s)of air movement from the conditioned space to the ceiling cavity.

All recessed luminaires shall be sealed with a gasket or caulked between the housing and the interior wall or ceiling.


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## Paul Sweet (Jun 29, 2012)

Gregg,  the lights in the OP are not in the "building thermal envelope".

2005 NEC 410.66(B) says that thermal insulation shall not be installed above a recessed fixture or within 3" of the enclosure, wiring compartment, or ballast, unless the fixture is IC rated.  If you read the code literally, fixtures several stories below an insulated roof would still have to be IC rated.  Is there any guidance on how far above a non-IC fixture thermal insulation should be kept?


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## Gregg Harris (Jun 29, 2012)

I understand the OP stated inside a confined sealed soffit that was inside of the envelope with no way to ventilate. The beginning sentence in 2009 NEC 410.116 B "Thermal insulation shall not be installed above a recessed luminaire" or within 3 inches of the recessed luminaire's enclosure, wiring compartment, or ballast unless it is identified for contact with insulation, Type IC

I believe the intent is clear that the luminaire must be able to dissipate the heat that is produced when energized to prevent damage to the fixture wiring and the potential for fire. I do not believe anyone would take it literally and require IC through out.

In the OP's situation the lights will generate heat when energized, and in the sealed space there will be no way of dissipating it.


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