# Gas Pipe Under Pool Deck Adjacent to Foundation



## Mule (May 7, 2012)

I know the IRC talks about gas lines run under buildings are require to be sleeved but I have a question about a gas line under a swimming pool deck.

The gas line runs from the meter on the side of the house adjacent to the foundation and then turns the corner at the back of the house goes about thirty feet and then turns up for a BBQ grill. The pool deck is going to cover up the gas line and there will not be any way for the gas to escape for around thirty feet or so in any direction if the gas pipe were to start leaking because the SP deck is going to be poured adjacent to the back patio.

I hope I explained this good enough.....

What do you guys think? The gas line isn't really under the building... but there's no way to open air?????

Thanks for your responses.


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## Kevin Turner (May 7, 2012)

Mule,

The IFGC section 404.11 states the same about gas lines under a building. But I don't think we could consider a pool deck a building either. Same as if were running under the driveway, uncovered patio or sidewalks.JMO


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## Mule (May 7, 2012)

Thanks Kevin,

It just don't seem right that a deck can be right up against the building with a gas line running under it and be okay but if I move it over two inches then it would be in violation.....


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## ICE (May 7, 2012)

Is it metal and within five feet of the pool?


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## Dennis (May 7, 2012)

I am confused- help me out here.  I have gas pipe in my basement so how is this any different.  Are you saying the IRC won't allow gas pipe to be run in a crawl space without being sleeved?


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## Dennis (May 7, 2012)

ICE said:
			
		

> Is it metal and within five feet of the pool?


  Where are you going with this--- the NEC requirement to bond all metal within 5'????  If so exception 1 in 680.26(B)(7) would allow that.


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## Gregg Harris (May 7, 2012)

Dennis said:
			
		

> I am confused- help me out here.  I have gas pipe in my basement so how is this any different.  Are you saying the IRC won't allow gas pipe to be run in a crawl space without being sleeved?


Dennis, it can be run in crawl space IFGC 404.11 prohibits under ground under buildings unless sleaved, 2009 has major changes to entry of building for gas lines.


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## north star (May 7, 2012)

*= = =*

Thanks " mjesse ".

From the `06 IRC, *Section G2415.11 (404.11) - Piping underground*

*beneath buildings.*

Piping installed underground beneath buildings is prohibited except where

the piping is encased in a conduit of wrought iron, plastic pipe, or steel

pipe designed to withstand the superimposed loads.........Such conduit

shall extend into an occupiable portion of the building and, at the point

where the conduit terminates in the building, the space between the

conduit and the gas piping shall be sealed to prevent the possible entrance

of any gas leakage..........If the end sealing is capable of withstanding the

full pressure of the gas pipe, the conduit shall be designed for the same

pressure as the pipe. Such conduit shall extend not less than 4 inches

(102 mm) outside the building, shall be vented above grade to the outdoors,

and shall be installed so as prevent the entrance of water and insects.

The conduit shall be protected from corrosion in accordance with Section

G2415.8.



This section does not forbid the installation of gas piping underneath

buildings, ...just that imposed loads have to be considered & addressed

when doing so.......Also, the [ proposed ] gas piping could be installed

along the edge of the pool deck, for access of any fittings.

*= = =*


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## ICE (May 7, 2012)

Dennis said:
			
		

> Where are you going with this--- the NEC requirement to bond all metal within 5'????  If so exception 1 in 680.26(B)(7) would allow that.


That is an interesting interpretation.  I'm not sure that I agree.


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## Mule (May 7, 2012)

ICE said:
			
		

> Is it metal and within five feet of the pool?


No and no.........


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## Gregg Harris (May 7, 2012)

Mule said:
			
		

> No and no.........


No to the metal?


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## Gregg Harris (May 7, 2012)

Gregg Harris said:
			
		

> No to the metal?


If the answer is no to the metal that would leave plastic, look at IFGC 404.14.1 Limitations Plastic pipe shall be installed outside underground only. Plastic pipe shall not be used within or under any building or slab etc...


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## Gregg Harris (May 7, 2012)

Gregg Harris said:
			
		

> No to the metal?


If the answer is no to the metal that would leave plastic, look at IFGC 404.14.1 Limitations Plastic pipe shall be installed outside underground only. Plastic pipe shall not be used within or under any building or slab etc...


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## Mule (May 7, 2012)

Yes it's plastic. I was just thinking that since the gas line was under concrete and the concrete was abutting the foundation, if the line were to start leaking that there would be a possibility that gas pockets could form under the house. But the code is pretty clear on this one!!!


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## Dennis (May 7, 2012)

Gregg Harris said:
			
		

> Dennis, it can be run in crawl space IFGC 404.11 prohibits *under ground* under buildings unless sleaved, 2009 has major changes to entry of building for gas lines.


That is what I thought he meant but I kept reading under the building and not "underground under the building.  Thanks


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## Dennis (May 7, 2012)

ICE said:
			
		

> That is an interesting interpretation.  I'm not sure that I agree.


 I don't see how you can read it differently.  The exception states that if there is a permanent barrier that prevents contact by a person then the bonding is not required.  I am talking about the bonding of all metal parts together that are within 5' of pools not bonding gas pipe in general.Do you not see the deck as a permanent barrier???  This is common throughout art. 680 in reference to lights, recep. etc.  If there is a barrier not all the rules apply


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## Gregg Harris (May 7, 2012)

Mule said:
			
		

> Yes it's plastic. I was just thinking that since the gas line was under concrete and the concrete was abutting the foundation, if the line were to start leaking that there would be a possibility that gas pockets could form under the house. But the code is pretty clear on this one!!!


2009 IRC G24.15.15.1 gives an exception to outside decks/slabs.


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## ICE (May 7, 2012)

Dennis said:
			
		

> I don't see how you can read it differently.  The exception states that if there is a permanent barrier that prevents contact by a person then the bonding is not required.  I am talking about the bonding of all metal parts together that are within 5' of pools not bonding gas pipe in general.Do you not see the deck as a permanent barrier???  This is common throughout art. 680 in reference to lights, recep. etc.  If there is a barrier not all the rules apply


The same can be said of the steel reinforcement in the pool shell and decks yet that steel is identified as part of the bonding grid.  When the code says "permanent barrier", the common meaning has been a wall.  I see your point but the code doesn't say prevents contact by a person.


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## Dennis (May 7, 2012)

ICE said:
			
		

> .  I see your point but the code doesn't say prevents contact by a person.


I does now----Check out the 2011-- it clarifies the intent.



> (7) Fixed Metal Parts. All fixed metal parts shall be bonded including, but not limited to, metal-sheathed cables and raceways, metal piping, metal awnings, metal fences, and metal door and window frames.Exception No. 1: Those separated from the pool by a permanent barrier *that prevents contact by a person* shall not be required to be bonded.
> 
> Exception No. 2: Those greater than 1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally of the inside walls of the pool shall not be required to be bonded.
> 
> Exception No. 3: Those greater than 3.7 m (12 ft) measured vertically above the maximum water level of the pool, or as measured vertically above any observation stands, towers, or platforms, or any diving structures, shall not be required to be bonded.


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## ICE (May 7, 2012)

Dennis said:
			
		

> I does now----Check out the 2011-- it clarifies the intent.


I can see that the code is leaning towards your interpretation.  Heretofore, a wall was sufficient as a permanent barrier but the 2011 code requires that the item can't be touched so it would have to be inside the wall.  I suppose it comes down to what is considered to be a permanent barrier.  Is a slab permanent?  How about simply buried in dirt?

Per the NEC, a concrete pool shell is conductive and shall be bonded to the grid.  So now a barrier (a concrete slab) that supposedly prevents contact with a pipe is itself conductive.

My comment about the reinforcement is wrong because 680.26 (7) is specific to Metal Wiring Methods and Equipment. "Metal sheathed cables and raceways, metal piping, and all fixed metal parts"....There is no mention of the reinforcement in item #7.

Obviously I am not convinced yet


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## skipharper (May 9, 2012)

Mule, in response to your original question in thread number 1--no violation.


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