# Water Closet Serves As Cleanout



## Francis Vineyard (Feb 13, 2015)

Pun not intended!

2015 Section P3005.2.3 the cleanout for the building drain sewer junction; "For the requirements of this section, removal of a water closet shall not be required to provide cleanout access."

Does that mean the water closet shall not serve as the cleanout for this section?


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 13, 2015)

Yes.........


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## Francis Vineyard (Feb 13, 2015)

Would you know the reasoning behind that rule?


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## north star (Feb 13, 2015)

*= + = + =*



IMO, ..."shall not be required" means that the water closet is not

required to be a clean out, but can be if needed........Also, in my

experience, ...accessing the "building drain & sewer" location

would require a little more wiggle room for personnel & equipment

at and around the clean out fitting.

*& % & % &*


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## jdfruit (Feb 13, 2015)

Francis Vineyard said:
			
		

> Would you know the reasoning behind that rule?


I grew up in a construction family, worked for my Uncle's plumbing shop doing jobbing/repairs. Had numerous tract homes with building drain aligned through the water closet routed out the back with sewer lateral to sewer main in the alley. The required cleanout was placed in the wall, turned to inside so weather/water proofing was not impacted at exterior. Once in while just removing the tank would let me use a snake, but most times had to remove tank/bowl so snake could be run through cleanout. IMHO, requiring unnecessary work for repair/maintenance and potential for damaging otherwise usable fixtures is not serving the public well.


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 13, 2015)

CLEANOUT. An accessible opening in the drainage system used for the removal of possible obstruction.

P3005.2.5 Accessibility.

Cleanouts shall be accessible. Minimum clearance in front of cleanouts shall be 18 inches (457 mm) on 3-inch (76 mm) and larger pipes, and 12 inches (305 mm) on smaller pipes. Concealed cleanouts shall be provided with access of sufficient size to permit removal of the cleanout plug and rodding of the system. Cleanout plugs shall not be concealed by permanent finishing material.

ACCESSIBLE. Signifies access that requires the removal of an access panel or similar removable obstruction.

Removal of a water closet is not similar to removal of a panel


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## Francis Vineyard (Feb 13, 2015)

Indulge me on another point.

Is this statement correct; the 2009 & 2012 requires a cleanout at the base of soil stack which can be a watercloset upstream of the stack that could also serve as the cleanout for the drain/sewer junction within 10 ft?


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## Francis Vineyard (Feb 13, 2015)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> CLEANOUT. An accessible opening in the drainage system used for the removal of possible obstruction.P3005.2.5 Accessibility.
> 
> Cleanouts shall be accessible. Minimum clearance in front of cleanouts shall be 18 inches (457 mm) on 3-inch (76 mm) and larger pipes, and 12 inches (305 mm) on smaller pipes. Concealed cleanouts shall be provided with access of sufficient size to permit removal of the cleanout plug and rodding of the system. Cleanout plugs shall not be concealed by permanent finishing material.
> 
> ...


2012 but couldn't find this in the 2015;



*P3005.2.10 Cleanout equivalent. *A fixture trap or a fixture with integral trap, readily removable without disturbing concealed piping shall be acceptableas a cleanout equivalent.


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 13, 2015)

Commentary P3005.2.10

This section allows for the removal of a trap or a fixture with an integral trap (such as a water closet) to provide for drain cleaning access. It recognizes that the trap is often the first place to look for blockage when a fixture fails to drain properly. When this is the case, either the trap or the fixture needs to be removed.............

A clean-out fitting is not required in addition to the access provided at the trap connection.

All of this to tell you a clean out is not required for sinks and water-closets in a one and two family dwelling


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## north star (Feb 13, 2015)

** - * - * - **





> "Indulge me on another point:Is this statement correct; the 2009 & 2012 requires a cleanout at  the base of soil stack which can be a water closet upstream of the stack  that could also serve as the cleanout for the drain/sewer junction  within 10 ft ?"


While the code section is correct, it is not very practical Francis..........The base ofa soil stack could have quite a large amount of wastes in the stack itself if there is

a clog downstream...................When removing the water closet being used as a clean

out, there is a potential to have a large amount of wastes discharge in to that water

closet area.........Not a very hygienic proposition.......Also, using a water closet as a

clean out "could" potentially disrupt customers, if that particular water closet is

located in a Guest' room..........A better design would be to have the soil stack clean

out located in a location with lots of access, ...say, outside at grade level, or inside

a Mechanical Room [ <------  weather consideration ].

** - * - * - **


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