# Exhaust Location for Enclosed



## David Lin (Aug 30, 2016)

*Where is a potential exhaust outlet location for an enclosed parking garage under a residential building at NYC? (backyard/sidewalk/front not allowed)*
In NYC, I have a residential building with tenants on the first floor and one owner with a backyard terrace. The first floor sits on top of an enclosed parking garage with a louver at the entrance for air intake and a current existing fan. Where may I put a new exhaust location so it won’t exit to the backyard.


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## cda (Aug 30, 2016)

Welcome ....


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## cda (Aug 30, 2016)

Maybe duct it if needed.

Little hard without a floor plan

Where is the current one exhausted to??

Not enough or going to add or remodel???


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## David Lin (Aug 30, 2016)

Thank you for the welcome, cda!

Currently it exhausts to  the backyard on the first floor. Looking to move the exhaust out of the backyard and to another location; sides of builidng are connected to adjacent building, so no dice there. The roof is a long, far way away.

No floor plans at the moment, but attached is what I sketched up:https://www.dropbox.com/s/nylzveu2etk43pq/sketch.pdf?dl=0


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## cda (Aug 30, 2016)

Sounds like only choices are backyard, front of building, duct it upwards,

Dig a trench and exhaust somewhere in the backyard??

How are you connected with this? Owner, contractor, city,,??!!!


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## David Lin (Aug 30, 2016)

anyone with a backyard I can just dump lovely CO into?

front is most likely unavailable because of those windows (operable I am assuming):

501.2.1 Location of exhaust outlets.
The termination point of exhaust outlets and ducts discharging to the outdoors shall be located
within the following minimum distances:
1.
For ducts conveying noxious, toxic, explosive or flammable vapors, fumes or dusts (including but not limited to exhaust
form dry cleaning establishments and spray booths): 30 feet (9144 mm) from property lines; 10 feet (3048 mm) from
operable openings into buildings; 6 feet (1829 mm) from exterior walls and roofs; 30 feet (9144 mm) from combustible
walls and operable openings into buildings which are in the direction of the exhaust discharge; 10 feet (3048 mm) above
adjoining grade. Additional requirements may apply to Hazardous Exhaust Systems; see Section 510.
2.
For other product-conveying outlets: 10 feet (3048 mm) from the property lines; 3 feet (914 mm) from exterior walls and
roofs; 10 feet (3048 mm) from operable openings into buildings; 10 feet (3048 mm) above adjoining grade; 10 feet from
any exterior fire escape, stair, or balcony.
3.
For all environmental air exhaust outlets: 3 feet (914 mm) from property lines; 3 feet (914 mm) from operable openings
into buildings for all occupancies other than Group U, and 10 feet (3048 mm) from mechanical air intakes. Such exhaust 
outlets shall not be considered hazardous or noxious

Backyard is the point of the exercise: to remove from backyard and meet the 0.75 cfm/sf requirement MC 404.2. Has anyone seen an exhaust through the garage door perhaps? As in a 1000-3000 cfm duct going through the door and operating when shut?

I'm a PE, mechanical consultant taking a look at it for the owner.


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## cda (Aug 30, 2016)

Oh

Ok is this only for one or two cars?? Like someone's garage

Or parking for most of the complex??


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## David Lin (Aug 30, 2016)

Yeah, complicated!

The entire complex. About 1500 sf and twenty parking spots for residents.


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## cda (Aug 30, 2016)

Seems like there should be a couple spots to exhaust from.

How enclosed is the garage??

Is the exhaust required??


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## north star (Aug 30, 2016)

*& 0 & 0 &*


David Lin,

Also, ...Welcome to The Building Codes Forum !

IMO, I agree with ***cda*** in that it sounds as though you
may have to duct the exhausts upward, either from the
existing location, or somewhere else.

An exhaust duct upward could be encased in an
architectural stone enclosure, ...something similar to
a fireplace chimney.









*& 0 & 0 &*


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## David Lin (Aug 31, 2016)

Thank you for the kind welcome, north star.

In resposnse to your questions:
1. The garage is completely enclosed; a ramp from the ground level to an underground parking lot that has only a door to a corridor as an exit.

2. There is exhaust required: 
403.5 Exhaust ventilation.
Exhaust airflow rate shall be provided in accordance with the requirements in Table 403.3. Exhaust
makeup air shall be permitted to be any comb
ination of outdoor air, recirculated air and transfer air, except as limited in accordance
with Section 403.2.

3. I do not believe we have such that luxury of space for a chimney in a NYC residential building. Imagine something like this:
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Best,
David


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## steveray (Aug 31, 2016)

I think this is what CDA was talking about.....
406.3.12 Ventilation. Ventilation, other than the percentage
of openings specified in Section 406.3.3.1, shall not be required.

Is mechanical ventilation required....I take it can not be considered open?


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## David Lin (Aug 31, 2016)

Hi steveray, 

There are openings, such as the ramp leading outside. However, I do not believe the 406.3.12 section is in the NYC mechanical code, which we would have to abide by. 

Thanks,
David


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## cda (Aug 31, 2016)

So why not duct it, blow out where the cars come in???


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## David Lin (Aug 31, 2016)

Yes, that was suggested and the most sensical option. However, there is a clearance issue; there is only a 1' clearance to the window above even if we move the existing inlet elsewhere. We require at least 3' if environmental air, 10' if ducts conveying toxic, noxious gas.

501.2.1
1.
For ducts conveying noxious, toxic, explosive or flammable vapors, fumes or dusts (including but not limited to exhaust
form dry cleaning establishments and spray booths): 30 feet (9144 mm) from property lines; 10 feet (3048 mm) from
operable openings into buildings; 6 feet (1829 mm) from exterior walls and roofs; 30 feet (9144 mm) from combustible
walls and operable openings into buildings which are in the direction of the exhaust discharge; 10 feet (3048 mm) above
adjoining grade. Additional requirements may apply to Hazardous Exhaust Systems; see Section 510.
2.
For other product-conveying outlets: 10 feet (3048 mm) from the property lines; 3 feet (914 mm) from exterior walls and
roofs; 10 feet (3048 mm) from operable openings into buildings; 10 feet (3048 mm) above adjoining grade; 10 feet from
any exterior fire escape, stair, or balcony.
3.
For all environmental air exhaust outlets: 3 feet (914 mm) from property lines; 3 feet (914 mm) from operable openings
into buildings for all occupancies other than Group U, and 10 feet (3048 mm) from mechanical air intakes. Such exhaust 
outlets shall not be considered hazardous or noxious


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## cda (Aug 31, 2016)

Duct it down to ground or underground level?

Hay the cars exhaust in and out of there 

I have seen just unducted exhaust fans as you come into the entrance ??


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## cda (Aug 31, 2016)

Find an existing chase and run through that to the roof ???


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## north star (Aug 31, 2016)

*@ = = =*


David Lin,

I offered the stone chimney as a representation only.
Stone is not the only material that could surround the
ducting.

It sounds as though you may have to install some sort
of ducting to above the roof line, because of restrictions
to the various intake openings.

A ducting assembly could be installed on the exterior
of the building veneer, and then be "dressed up" to hide
the ducting inside.


*= = = @*


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## David Lin (Aug 31, 2016)

Thanks everyone for your input, I believe we will merely replace the fan, which does not even meet code now, or move to a discreet place in the corner of the backyard. There are neither chases to combine to nor space to duct up individually. Finally, ducting the exhaust below the basement where the garage is, out the entrance where the intake is without ducting and requesting the cars pipe their exhaust themselves are not possible according to the owner.


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## cda (Aug 31, 2016)

Humm


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## steveray (Aug 31, 2016)

David Lin said:


> Hi steveray,
> 
> There are openings, such as the ramp leading outside. However, I do not believe the 406.3.12 section is in the NYC mechanical code, which we would have to abide by.
> 
> ...



The ventilation can be natural or mechanical (depending) and the section I posted came out of the building code....


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## JBI (Sep 1, 2016)

steveray, NYC has its own Building Code...


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## Pcinspector1 (Sep 1, 2016)

Sorry, giving my cat a bath



David Lin said:


> However, there is a clearance issue; there is only a 1' clearance to the window above even if we move the existing inlet elsewhere. We require at least 3' if environmental air, 10' if ducts conveying toxic, noxious gas.



Is the window a required window, could it be eliminated to meet venting clearances?? 

pc1


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## Pcinspector1 (Sep 1, 2016)

Man I hate it when cat hair sticks to your tongue!


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