# Fresh 80 Vent vs window



## retire09 (Aug 6, 2013)

What does a fresh 80 vent do that an openable window cannot do?

What is the need or advantage for the fresh 80 style vents in houses?


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## north star (Aug 6, 2013)

*= = **~** = =*

Here's the Spec. Sheet on the Fresh 80 vent:

*http://www.thermastor.com/Residential-Ventilation-Products/Fresh-80-100-Spec.pdf*



*= = **~** = =*


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## retire09 (Aug 6, 2013)

Windows are always there(required by code for natural light and ventilation), double or triple pane insulated and sealed. The fresh 80 is a 3" diameter hole in both your insulation and air/vapor barrier. The vent cannot replace the window by code so why would you choose to have both?

How is this ever an advantage from an energy conservation standpoint?


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## north star (Aug 6, 2013)

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retire09,

I would not consider the Fresh 80 a compliant alternative to opening

the [ openable ] windows, and introducing fresh air in to the habitable

spaces.....Just more Snake Oil being pimped !

Is someone proposing to install one of these in your location ?

*= = **~** = =*


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## Builder Bob (Aug 6, 2013)

Don't forget the emergency rescue windows required in bedrooms....don't see how this could be compliant


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## retire09 (Aug 6, 2013)

Here in Alaska these are being installed in every room in the house in some cases. They are part of the state energy conservation program.

It sounds crazy to me but they want these due to the fact that the homes are sealed and insulated so tight that ventilation air must be provided. I agree the houses are tight but why mandate an openable vent right next to an openable window?


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## north star (Aug 6, 2013)

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retire09,

I recommend that you challenge; in writing, this requirement from

the state, in that it clearly violates a number of [ IRC ] code provisions.

In my AHJ,  ...this state mandates a lot of things without the funding to

achieve them.......It seems to be another Dog & Pony Show to the voters.

[ *EX:* The elected polla-tishun: Why yessir, Mr. & Mrs. Voter, I, and my

staff are working vigorously to reduce energy consumption in this state

and to promote a healthier environment in your homes.  ].

Yeah, ...right !

*= = **~** = =*


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## retire09 (Aug 6, 2013)

I see this only as an unnecessary waste of money to install and a waste of energy into the future.

What IRC provisions do you feel are being violated?


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## north star (Aug 6, 2013)

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Thermal insulation,  ...vapor barrier to mention two........I did not

find any warranty info, or an ES Report or U.L. listing either !

*= = **~** = =*


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## Sifu (Aug 6, 2013)

I have never heard of this so excuse my ignorance.  I do believe houses can be made too tight, case in point is the requirement for make-up air when a hood exhausts more than 400cfm.  So with that being said does this vent have a mechanism that keeps it closed when intake air is not required?  Like a flap?  In other words could a vent like this be used as the make-up air for that requirement?

SEE.....if you read the thread about the usefulness of this forum, this is exactly what I was talking about.  I did not know this thing existed, and now I do!  Just cuz I wanted to see what others were talking about.


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## mtlogcabin (Aug 6, 2013)

I never heard of it either.


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## north star (Aug 6, 2013)

*= = **~ **= =*

In reading the manufacturer' Spec. Sheet, ...it [ supposedly  ] has a

thermally insulated flap built in to it.

*= = **~** = =*


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## retire09 (Aug 6, 2013)

These units do have a plastic back draft damper to close when not in use.

But when it is 30 below these are a constant source of cold air infiltration.


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## conarb (Aug 7, 2013)

I've been told that similar units have been used in Europe for centuries, usually located near the tops of windows, the advent of the European style tilt/turn window made them obsolete.

i'm now hearing stories that with Green Code mandated blower door testing the operator is making the builders cut holes in the walls to pass 62.2 mandated fresh air requirements, then seal them up after he leaves.  This is only going to get worse as ASHRAE 62.2 is scheduled to increase air flow by triple in some cases.  There had been a fight going on between  LBL's Max Sherman and Joe Lstiburek, Sherman has won.


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## Uncle Bob (Aug 11, 2013)

I have an idea that is proven to work for hundreds of years.  Allows fresh air to flow through the home without undue loss of energy, allows any water leaks to dry up and prevents mold due to moisture being trapped, allows radon and other toxics from building up in the home.  *Quit sealing the dam house up you idiots!*    (definition of idiot - An *idiot*, dolt, or dullard is a mentally deficient person, or *someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way*.)  Uncle Bob


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## conarb (Aug 11, 2013)

Well said Uncle Bob.


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## MASSDRIVER (Aug 13, 2013)

retire09 said:
			
		

> What does a fresh 80 vent do that an openable window cannot do?What is the need or advantage for the fresh 80 style vents in houses?


One thing that comes to mind is security. You can keep everything locked and still get ventilation.

Brent.


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## Fort (Aug 13, 2013)

A good opportunity to brush up on ASHRAE 62.2, which has a new 2013 update.

This is the standard for residential fresh air ventilation. It is required at least here in CA.

Usually we see the"exhaust only" method used, where a bath fan is equipped with a special timer switch like the SmartExhaust by Air Cycler. But to do it right there are some calcs and other considerations that need to be addressed.

I do not think I would ever recommend that hole in the wall that is being discussed.

Get the standard here: http://http://www.techstreet.com/products/1855284

You can "preview" much of the document (some of the most important pages anyway) here for free:

http://www.techstreet.com/products/preview/1855284


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## jeffc (Aug 13, 2013)

I think idiots, dolt, and dullards are way under represented on this forum so here I go my two bits: Natural house ventilation needs wind or a temperature difference to move air. Without one or both, you have no air movement. Plus, you have very little control over the amount of natural ventilation. With mechanical ventilation, the occupant can close off the fresh air 80 or window vents in unused rooms and control the amount of ventilation to each area. I've used fresh air 80s when a couple of windows arrived with no vents cut into them. The problem with mechanical ventilated systems is that nobody gets trained on how to use them. These houses are smarter than the occupants. Uncle Bob mentioned that we just need to, "Allows fresh air to flow through the home without undue loss of energy." How do we naturally ventilate without a higher energy bill? Air leakage accounts for 10 - 50% of the heat loss from a house. This ventilation/heatloss would occur when the weather is the hottest or the coldest outside when we least need the ventilation.


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## tmurray (Aug 14, 2013)

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> I have an idea that is proven to work for hundreds of years.  Allows fresh air to flow through the home without undue loss of energy, allows any water leaks to dry up and prevents mold due to moisture being trapped, allows radon and other toxics from building up in the home.  *Quit sealing the dam house up you idiots!*    (definition of idiot - An *idiot*, dolt, or dullard is a mentally deficient person, or *someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way*.)  Uncle Bob


Pulling air through the building envelope will pick up contaminants from the building envelope components. Studies are showing that fiberglass may be connected to cancer, so you could be endangering the life of the occupants by doing this. I don't know about you folks in the south, but here up north I don't think I have ever seen someone who was happy with their drafty house come winter time. In fact most people complain about it. Mechanical ventilation is the way to go. You get distributed ventilation throughout the building, you can provide source contaminant removal and you are not relying on stack effect or depressurization of the house. relying on leaks means that if the house is the same temperature as the exterior and there is no wind then there is no ventilation. Open all the windows you want, the air won't move. These "fresh 80" vents sound even worse. Alaska should require an HRV if they want to mandate ventilation.


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