# Grain Silo for Brewery - Fire Rated!?



## jpowell (Nov 9, 2015)

Hi All,

Need a little help here.  What is your opinion on needing 2-HR rated exterior walls on this grain silo.  It seems silly, because it is a silo - it is made of metal and there is no good way to create a rated wall.

Here is the situation.  Small local brewery is doing a small expansion.  As part of this they want to install a small grain silo.  S-1.  It is a separate structure, but is close to the lot line and the new/existing structure.  Areas are small enough that they can consider the whole site as one building and don't need fire separation between the structures.

Where I need opinions is the distance to the lot line.  The silo is about 1' from the lot line.  Per 602 this would require 2-HR exterior walls within 5'.  (2012 IBC)  Also possibly relevant is a 16' access easement from the property line, so no structures will be built closer than that.

Silo stats:

10' diameter

79 sf

26' tall

2042 cf

Thanks for any thoughts!


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## jpowell (Nov 9, 2015)

Edit: I believe I am going to approach this silo as a piece of equipment.  It is being purchased from a brewery equipment supply, and is financed by the bank as equipment.


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## fatboy (Nov 9, 2015)

Good idea...........


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## mark handler (Nov 9, 2015)

jpowell said:
			
		

> What is your opinion on needing 2-HR rated exterior walls on this grain silo.  It seems silly, because it is a silo - it is


Silly? Dust fires....Dust explosions are a frequent hazard in ...in grain elevators, and silos....


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## mark handler (Nov 9, 2015)

Work with the local fire department. Can you come up with a way to control the "dust" in a partially full, or partially empty (depending on which way you look at it) Silo.

With mitigation they may allow it to be less than 2 hour..


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## BSSTG (Nov 9, 2015)

Greetings,

I recall back in the 80's there being several really bad silo explosions. Remember too that there are specific NEC requirements for Class III locations for the electric install.

BSSTG


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## ICE (Nov 9, 2015)

It is a building for an S1 occupancy.


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## mtlogcabin (Nov 9, 2015)

> It is being purchased from a brewery equipment supply,


 Then the concerns Mark has raised should be addressed by the manufacturer. I agree the FD should be involved. 





> Also possibly relevant is a 16' access easement from the property line,


On an adjacent property? What type of easement and who is it for. A utility easement that may require excavations in the future could undermine the silo foundation.. You have a few unanswered questions that should be addressed.


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## jpowell (Nov 9, 2015)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> You have a few unanswered questions that should be addressed.


Agreed.

Thanks everyone for the quick input.  I will be speaking with the fire department soon.


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## cda (Nov 9, 2015)

well they stick them in some of the bars I have been in??

There has been disscussion here on brew bars before, maybe do a search


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## cda (Nov 9, 2015)

http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/search.php?searchid=625023


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## Pcinspector1 (Nov 9, 2015)

Zoning usually requires a set back from the PL, your 1-ft from the PL with a structure? Do you have zoning requirements?


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## ADAguy (Nov 10, 2015)

Could also be seen as hazardous material storage in light of the potential for explosion.


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## JPohling (Nov 11, 2015)

Breweries would typically be S-2 unless they are distilling or making very high gravity beers.  I see this as equipment.  Would need to respect setbacks.


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## north star (Nov 12, 2015)

*+ & + & +*

What is considered to the higher hazard in this application ?

A piece of equipment that will contain xxx amount of product,

or a structure that contains xxx amount of product.



*+ & + & +*


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## Pcinspector1 (Nov 13, 2015)

jpowell said:
			
		

> Edit: I believe I am going to approach this silo as a piece of equipment.  It is being purchased from a brewery equipment supply, and is financed by the bank as equipment.


If it's now classified as equipment it would not be subject to the county taxation. If it was considered to be a structure, I don't see how it can be allowed to be 1-ft from the PL unless you have a zero lot lines in your zoning?

Will a sprinkler system allow it to be closer to the PL?


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## mtlogcabin (Nov 18, 2015)

Okay I will have an existing one relocating to the edge of town and this can go a number of different ways. It will be within a new railpark along with the regional offices next to it. Do not know the final size yet. What do we classify the a stand alone silo and what about a grain elevator?

A stand alone silo would probably be a "U" occupancy

AGRICULTURAL BUILDING. A structure designed and constructed to house farm implements, hay, grain, poultry, livestock or other horticultural products. This structure shall not be a place of human habitation or a place of employment where agricultural products are processed, treated or packaged, nor shall it be a place used by the public.

312.1 General.

Buildings and structures of an accessory character and miscellaneous structures not classified in any specific occupancy shall be constructed, equipped and maintained to conform to the requirements of this code commensurate with the fire and life hazard incidental to their occupancy. Group U shall include, but not be limited to, the following:

Agricultural buildings

No fire suppression regardless of size

Now processing is an H-2 according to 415.8

[F] 415.8.1 Combustible dusts, grain processing and storage.

The provisions of Sections 415.8.1.1 through 415.8.1.6 shall apply to buildings in which materials that produce combustible dusts are stored or handled. Buildings that store or handle combustible dusts shall comply with the applicable provisions of NFPA 61, NFPA 85, NFPA 120, NFPA 484, NFPA 654, NFPA 655 and NFPA 664, and the International Fire Code.

[F] 415.8.1.1 Type of construction and height exceptions.

Buildings shall be constructed in compliance with the height and area limitations of Table 503 for Group H-2; except that where erected of Type I or II construction, the heights and areas of grain elevators and similar structures shall be unlimited, and where of Type IV construction, the maximum building height shall be 65 feet (19 812 mm) and except further that, in isolated areas, the maximum building height of Type IV structures shall be increased to 85 feet (25 908 mm).

[F] 415.8.1.2 Grinding rooms.

Every room or space occupied for grinding or other operations that produce combustible dusts shall be enclosed with fire barriers constructed in accordance with Section 707 or horizontal assemblies constructed in accordance with Section 711, or both. The fire-resistance rating of the enclosure shall be not less than 2 hours where the area is not more than 3,000 square feet (279 m2), and not less than 4 hours where the area is greater than 3,000 square feet (279 m2).

[F] 415.8.1.3 Conveyors.

Conveyors, chutes, piping and similar equipment passing through the enclosures of rooms or spaces shall be constructed dirt tight and vapor tight, and be of approved noncombustible materials complying with Chapter 30.

[F] 415.8.1.4 Explosion control.

Explosion control shall be provided as specified in the International Fire Code, or spaces shall be equipped with the equivalent mechanical ventilation complying with the International Mechanical Code.

[F] 415.8.1.5 Grain elevators.

Grain elevators, malt houses and buildings for similar occupancies shall not be located within 30 feet (9144 mm) of interior lot lines or structures on the same lot, except where erected along a railroad right-of-way.

The regional manager is asking what we want because normally corporate has placed these facilities in the middle of wide open spaces and they are not looked at very closely. I am thinking an FPE may need to get on board to advise the design staff based on the intended operation now and future


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## cda (Nov 18, 2015)

If a brew bar pub

Accessory or part of the occupancy


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## cda (Nov 18, 2015)

https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/show_picture.pl?l=english&rais=1&oiu=https%3A%2F%2Fbonjourparis.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F05%2Fimg_471.gif&sp=30f22067ae9d9c65d2218354e454cd7b


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## mtlogcabin (Nov 18, 2015)

It is a farm and feed store with regional corporate offices located on the same site. The ywill be load various locally grown grains and shipping them by rail for processing. This is the current site not including the regional offices
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







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## cda (Nov 18, 2015)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> It is a farm and feed store with regional corporate offices located on the same site. The ywill be load various locally grown grains and shipping them by rail for processing. This is the current site not including the regional offices
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The buildings themselves what ever occupancy they fall under.

The silos appear to be "U",,,

But have to meet other provisions required for the hazard and

Group U occupancies are subject to the same structural loadings such as snow loads as other occupancies. Section 312.1 establishes that occupancies classified as utility and miscellaneous structures shall be constructed, equipped and maintained to conform to the code requirements that are commensurate with the fire and life hazards incidental to their occupancy. The structural design requirements for roofs are the minimum deemed necessary to withstand such elements. Allowing construction of a building with an accessory occupancy that could reasonably be expected to collapse under the snow loads known to prevail in a certain area is not in the best interest of public safety.


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## ICE (Nov 18, 2015)

When I was a kid and stuck in Illinois, we referred to these as grain elevators.  A silo was on a farm and held sillage. Sillage stinks but animals gobble it up.  Every so often a grain elevator would disappear in a cloud of dust.


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## JCraver (Nov 19, 2015)

I'm still in Illannoys, and that's still a grain elevator...

mt:  If it's just grain storage, I wouldn't get too carried away as long as they meet the prescriptive req's that you already posted.  If they're grinding grain, then I'd look a little closer (that's where you get explosive dust).  Where most of these facilities create trouble for themselves is when they build wooden "buildings" adjacent to or attached to the grain bins - a place for trucks to pull through and load/unload, roofs to keep electric controls and/or employees out of the rain, etc.  Those are the places the dust will collect, and then a farmer tosses a smoke out the window of the grain truck and BOOM.

A steel bin, by itself, on a concrete foundation, is almost zero hazard.


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## north star (Nov 19, 2015)

*$ * $ * $*

Does the product \ sillage inside those Grain Silos;

whether they are in a concrete or metal type container,

go thru any type of exothermic heating process ?

*$  *  $  *  $*


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## ADAguy (Nov 19, 2015)

A picture may generate a thousand questions (smiling) Yodda.

Note location of crosswalk button?


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## cda (Nov 19, 2015)

are they going to put this in the middle of the city????


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## mtlogcabin (Nov 19, 2015)

cda said:
			
		

> are they going to put this in the middle of the city????


No it is in the middle of the city now. It will be relocating to a new rail park which is an old rock quarry/concrete plant. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


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## cda (Nov 19, 2015)

Goooood !!!!!!


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## Pcinspector1 (Nov 19, 2015)

Where talking some serious stuff out hear, "I think would should get candle sticks, they make a great gift".

Why u all ignoring zoning set backs. A silo 1-ft off the PL doesn't fly unless you have zero lot line zones!


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## chris kennedy (Nov 19, 2015)

ADAguy said:
			
		

> Note location of crosswalk button?


No one uses it, no side walks.


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