# Two Miami condos sue over sprinkler pipes



## mark handler (Dec 6, 2015)

Two Miami condominium associations filed a class-action lawsuit against manufacturers and distributors of pipes for*fire sprinkler systems that*allegedly are defective. The lawsuit filed by associations for the Wind condominium and Latitude on the River was assigned to U.S. District Judge Jose E. Martinez in Miami. Plaintiffs attorney Ervin A. Gonzalez, a partner of Colson Hicks Eidson, told the Daily Business Review, “This is probably one of the biggest construction defect cases in history. It will be larger than the Chinese drywall problem.” The suit charges that CPVC pipes for fire sprinkler systems leak due to reactions between resin in the pipes and antimicrobial and anticorrosion chemicals used in construction and in metal pipes. Repairs stemming from CPVC pipe failures in sprinkler systems will cost as much as $70 million at both Wind and Latitude on the River. Wind, located at 305 South Miami Avenue, has 41 stories and 489 units and was built in 2008. Latitude on the River, completed in 2011, is a 44-story, 454-unit condo at 185 Southwest 7 Street along the Miami River. Gonzalez said the chief chemist of Lubrizol Advanced Materials of Ohio, one of the defendants in the case, realized in 2007 that CPVC resin failed in contact with chemicals commonly used in construction, but the company did not disclose the problem. [Daily Business Review] *—*Mike Seemuth - See more at: http://therealdeal.com/miami/blog/2015/12/05/two-miami-condos-sue-over-sprinkler-pipes/#sthash.m1hdApo7.dpuf


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## cda (Dec 6, 2015)

Wish it had more details

Is it the exterior portion of the  pipe, touching common construction materials???

Or is it the metal fitting for the sprinkler head failing??

I cannot remember when the warnings on certain construction materials, in contact with the exterior pipe came out.


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## conarb (Dec 6, 2015)

This picture in the article is unclear so I blew it up in Photoshop, as much as I hate plastic pipe this picture doesn't look like plastic pipe to me.




Remember when we had those fights back on our old ICC Bulletin Board the arguments were always based upon the cheap cost of plastic systems, eventually I built a home that I thought might require sprinklers and got bids on a copper system, it cost $200,000 or $50 a square foot, fortunately for me and the owner I was able to beat the requirement.  Wonder if those attorneys know about all the fraud involved in making sprinklers mandatory?

View attachment 1258


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## cda (Dec 6, 2015)

Metal metal metal


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## conarb (Dec 6, 2015)

cda said:
			
		

> Metal metal metal


I agree, apparently the newspaper used a stock picture of a leaking pipe flange.


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## ICE (Dec 6, 2015)

I don't know who these people are or whether they can be trusted. http://www.ppfahome.org/cpvc/

By looking at the list of things not to do, I get the feeling that there are things about CPVC that are as yet, unknown.



> DON'T DO's FOR ALL CONSTRUCTION    Do not use petroleum or solvent based sealants, lubricants, or fire stop materials.
> 
> Do not use edible oils, such as Crisco, for a lubricant.
> 
> ...


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## MASSDRIVER (Dec 6, 2015)

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/research/research-foundation/symposia/2014-supdet/2014-papers/supdet2014pfaendtner.pdf?la=en

The materials in the plastic corrode the metal.

Brent.


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## cda (Dec 6, 2015)

Have not seen that report;;;

Take away

All materials have their own vulnerabilities, and therefore their own application issues.

• No component is immune to failure.

• A variety of failure modes are operable in fire

protection systems.

• Failures can occur in all stages of life of the system.

• Failure prevention involves good system design, material choice, good installation & maintenance

taking local environments into account


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## conarb (Dec 6, 2015)

cda said:
			
		

> Have not seen that report;;;Take away
> 
> All materials have their own vulnerabilities, and therefore their own application issues.
> 
> ...


So who should pay the $70 million?


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## cda (Dec 6, 2015)

conarb said:
			
		

> So who should pay the $70 million?


Well no details supplied from the fourth estate


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## Msradell (Dec 6, 2015)

I don't know about anybody else but even if the pipe can be proven to be defective the cost they are suing for sounds excessive.  It amounts to over $70,000 per unit in the buildings.  Granted they are probably fancy buildings but even then it sounds like maybe they lawyers are looking for a quick settlement for a much lower cost?


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## ICE (Dec 6, 2015)

The occupants will have to relocate for months.  There will be walls and ceilings torn open.  All of the pipe has to be replaced.  The lawyers expect a windfall and the owners deserve compensation for the agrivation.  $70K isn't enough.


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## Msradell (Dec 7, 2015)

ICE said:
			
		

> The occupants will have to relocate for months.  There will be walls and ceilings torn open.  All of the pipe has to be replaced.  The lawyers expect a windfall and the owners deserve compensation for the agrivation.  $70K isn't enough.


I didn't know that you worked for lawyers as a consultant!  Any lawyer would be proud of your price estimate.  Just have a fire watch in place and there's no need for the occupants to relocate.  After that everything just falls into place.  While I agree it would certainly be expensive it wouldn't cost anywhere near that much.


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## ICE (Dec 8, 2015)

A fire watch is not appropriate for a 41 story, 489 unit residential building.


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## Msradell (Dec 8, 2015)

ICE said:
			
		

> A fire watch is not appropriate for a 41 story, 489 unit residential building.


I've seen it done where they do the work in sections during the day and have the entire system back in service at night. This could certainly be done as long as they have sufficient space to run new main distribution lines before the existing ones are removed


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## ICE (Dec 8, 2015)

Msradell said:
			
		

> I've seen it done where they do the work in sections during the day and have the entire system back in service at night. This could certainly be done as long as they have sufficient space to run new main distribution lines before the existing ones are removed


I've never seen anything even remotely close to that so I'll trust that you have first hand experience and would know better than I.


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## cda (Dec 8, 2015)

I have seen it,,, but on a 41 and 44 story scale

Would add a lot of cost

Major problem they have to open a lot of sheet rock,,,

In occupied units.


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## FM William Burns (Dec 9, 2015)

Simple subrogation matter and the suits will weed it out with the hiring of experts like metallurgists, fire protection system specialists etc. way too much speculation now like historical arguments of the past..............


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