# R-3 and attic access through garage ceiling



## codeworks (Feb 10, 2012)

how are you all addressing R-3 with attached garages with attic access through the garage ceiling? a large number of the "custom home builders " here put the attic access in the garage , which effectively kills the separation (1/4" plywood on drop down stairs. ) it has been "practice" if you will, that intumescent paint on this (eeeek!) has "been accepted". i don't like it, however, i'm looking for advise and other opinions. heavy handed ness  " move the access to the inside of the home" doesn't go over well, any ideas? thanks. i'm thinking 1/2 drywall on stair "drop door" with a good seal to minimize  smoke/air movement


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## ccbuilding (Feb 10, 2012)

Along with drywall and seal, we have also accepted 26 ga metal with seal. Paint doesn't do it.


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## gbhammer (Feb 10, 2012)

We ask them to provide a listed rated attic access. There are companies that make 1 hr. rated access stairs. What we do not do is allow them to hang 5/8's type x on the cheap stair, because the added weight will cause it to sag and gap away from the ceiling. In most cases they drop the idea of having access from the garage.


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## pwood (Feb 10, 2012)

screw some hinges to a piece of 5/8 plywood with 5/8 sheetrock attached to it and screw it above the stairway. do you allow 1/2" drywall on the garage ceiling when the attic space communicates freely with the living space attic?


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## gbhammer (Feb 10, 2012)

We amended the IRC to 5/8" type x for all garage separation, so no 1/2".


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## codeworks (Feb 10, 2012)

i agree , 5/8 x is better, ,  we pretty much do "minimum code requirements" not many amendments, however, we're headed into a new code cycle, so maybe we can get some "tighter" stuff in (all depends on city council, builders board of appeals, ) we'll see


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## steveray (Feb 10, 2012)

run the drywall vertically on the common garage/house wall all the way to the roof deck and install 20min door for access.....


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## codeworks (Feb 10, 2012)

yes, i've thought about that. options to note on plan review


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## brudgers (Feb 10, 2012)

gbhammer said:
			
		

> We amended the IRC to 5/8" type x for all garage separation, so no 1/2".


  I'm amazed that you are more concerned about fires in garages than in assembly occupancies such as churches and educational occupancies such as daycares.  One hour attic access in a house, seriously?


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## gbhammer (Feb 10, 2012)

I just enforce what they give me. I don't make code or its amendments. It may be that upon occasion I push for one interpretation or the other, but it is ultimately left up to whomever the appointed CO happens to be. Then the code gets to go in front of a 6 person appointed board where they make their changes. If I interpret something that is disliked they can appeal and it is back in front of another 6 person appointed board.

Believe it or not I only want to do it right not spin my will upon the people.:beatdhrs


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## codeworks (Feb 10, 2012)

it's not that "im more concerned with fires in houses that assembly occupancies" we don't have any assembly occupancy's  going up out here.  i just started recently doing plan review here, which get re-reviewed by the assistant BO, and i'm trying to do the best i can. most (95%) of our construction is residential, we are in the country , not the city. if i had questions about other occupancies, i'd ask them.


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## gbhammer (Feb 10, 2012)

codeworks he is just ornery, and likes to give us plan reviewers on the ropes. He knows so much it gets in the way of what the rest of us know.


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## codeworks (Feb 10, 2012)

i did some research when i was a plans reviewer in vermont,  (1987) where , at the time, there were i believe   3 small jurisdictions doing any kind of residential inspection program at all.  more people die in residential occupancies, than in  fires that occur in public buildings. the reason is, most of our public buildings are occupied during the day, when people are awake and aware. with residential fires (this includes apartments, hotels, motels) there are way more vairables. you may be real careful, your neighbor may be smoking in bed and drinking a half gallon of whiskey, could lead to fire, kids play with matches, votive candles ( i hate those things, the wax burns down, glass breaks, hot wax drips off somewhere, flames follow wax) lots of variables. however, with residential fires, especially  at night, people are sleepy, disoriented, not sure if they smell smoke or are dreaming, why is the dog barking, or the cat acting crazy, while all this plays out in the sleepy dreaming disorientad mind , flashover can occur in another room, now there's trouble . i could give a r@@s *SS if somebody jumps my concern. i've got big shoulders, i can take it and stand up to it.


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## ICE (Feb 10, 2012)

So what's the big deal about residential garages?  It's the cars.  Cars burn like match heads, fast and furious.  There was a smash-up and I saw smoke coming from under a car hood by the side of the freeway.  I took me about 60 seconds to pull over, back up and deploy extinguishers.  I was too late as the flames were 20' tall by then.

Here's a tip if you have an engine fire.  Raise the hood just enough to get the extinguisher nozzle under the hood and pull the trigger.  If you raise the hood all the way, the rush of air can make the fire grow real big, real fast.  Then you're running down the street, on fire.  I hate when that happens.

Heres another tip: One extinguisher is never enough.

The IRC watered down the requirements.  I will allow as big a hole as you want.  All that is required is an assembly that's listed for the purpose.  For guidance one can consult the Mechanical Code which provides details for an access to a furnace through a bedroom.  Ya I know, there is no reference to the Mechanical code in the Building code but it works to control the spread of smoke and fire.  Don't forget about self closing and self latching, which kills the drop-down stair.

The first time a read the IRC requirement for only 1/2" drywall on the wall between a dwelling and an attached garage I thought "Shirley, I'm the only one that knows this."  So far that's been the case.  Not one contractor or civilian has challenged 5/8" type X.  If anyone does challenge me, I'm going to tell them that that's a "back East" code and we don't do that here.


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## Francis Vineyard (Feb 10, 2012)

codeworks said:
			
		

> i'm thinking 1/2 drywall on stair "drop door" with a good seal to minimize smoke/air movement


That's it!

Francis


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## Architect1281 (Feb 11, 2012)

Why would it be any different than a door from the garage to the house.

there are commercially available access doors that fill the bill


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## ICE (Feb 11, 2012)

Architect1281 said:
			
		

> Why would it be any different than a door from the garage to the house.there are commercially available access doors that fill the bill


And boy oh boy do they fill a bill.  The access can cost more than the entire ceiling.


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## fatboy (Feb 11, 2012)

If attaching the appropriate ceiling cover over the door does not cause it to "sag" so that it does in fact seal, just as any other drop in access cover, there is no reason not to accept it. JMHO


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## Yankee (Feb 11, 2012)

The attic isn't living space, the type x doesn't need to be on the garage ceiling at all. The type x goes on the garage/house wall all the way to the roof and that's the end of it.


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## GBrackins (Apr 11, 2012)

ICE said:
			
		

> Here's a tip if you have an engine fire.  Raise the hood just enough to get the extinguisher nozzle under the hood and pull the trigger.  If you raise the hood all the way, the rush of air can make the fire grow real big, real fast.  Then you're running down the street, on fire.  I hate when that happens.  Heres another tip: One extinguisher is never enough.
> 
> 
> 
> > or go into the bed of your truck, open your igloo cooler, pull out a can of beer and shake it up. next open the hood enough for a can of beer to fit, pop the top, toss it into the engine compartment and close the hood. instant fire extinguisher!


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## ICE (Apr 11, 2012)

GBrackins said:
			
		

> ICE said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## GBrackins (Apr 11, 2012)

well you're not suppose to drink and drive ...... better the stop and drink, then drive ya know


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## BSSTG (Apr 12, 2012)

Greetings all,

Yea we have had 2 house fires in the last year or so that started in the garage, spread into the attic thereby pretty much destroying everything. Interestingly, at both fires there were folks at home and awake and yet still damage was significant. Older homes though. I don't think either had a solid 20 minute separation.

BS


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## David Henderson (Apr 12, 2012)

GB couldn't do that it would be alcoho abuse!


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## GBrackins (Apr 12, 2012)

DH do you mean using beer to put out a fire would be alcohol abuse, or abuse of alcohol?


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## gbhammer (Apr 12, 2012)

From one GB to another - the only fire my beer will be putting out is in my belly.


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## GBrackins (Apr 12, 2012)

I hear ya GB


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## GBrackins (Apr 12, 2012)

I actually had to do that one day when I pulled up to an intersection and a guy's Eddie Bauer Explorer had smoke coming from under the hood. The guys on duty where surprised when they pulled up and found I had put the fire out, and especially what I had used. Talk about a bunch of disappointment fellows, they were looking forward to do some forcible entry.


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## pwood (Apr 12, 2012)

GBrackins said:
			
		

> DH do you mean using beer to put out a fire would be alcohol abuse, or abuse of alcohol?


around these parts we call that Brewicide! a beer is a terrible thing to waste as they say.


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## righter101 (Apr 12, 2012)

ICE said:
			
		

> Here's a tip if you have an engine fire.  Raise the hood just enough to get the extinguisher nozzle under the hood and pull the trigger.  If you raise the hood all the way, the rush of air can make the fire grow real big, real fast.  Then you're running down the street, on fire.  I hate when that happens.


And to quote the late Richard Pryor..... "If you set yourself on fire and go running down the street, people will get the #$@& out of your way!"


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## GBrackins (Apr 12, 2012)

I know I'd certainly get out of their way. fire is inspirational ya know


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## Builder Bob (Apr 12, 2012)

Be careful aboout allowing sheetrock to be applied over an attic access stairway, het in hte summer can cause the springs to expand and allow the door to sag in the summer ---- It may be fine in the winter but with attic temps here appraoching 110 to 120 degrees in the summer, the springs have a hard enought time keeping the door closed in the summer without extra sheet rock weight. We usually suggect a positive locking action that the homeowner can unlock for access when needed -


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