# 0n 1-1-2014 we adopt the 2011 NEC



## ICE (Nov 16, 2013)

There are still some things to hash out.  For example, there is ARC fault protection.



> (4) Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.Where a receptacle outlet is supplied by a branch circuit that requires arc-fault circuit interrupter protection as specified elsewhere in this Code,
> 
> a replacement receptacle at this outlet shall be one of the following:
> 
> (_And then there are the choices of ARC fault protection_)


What exactly is meant by that?

Well lets start with what exactly has been said.

"as specified elsewhere in this Code"

So somewhere in the code, that branch circuit is required to be ARC fault protected.  There's no ambiguity associated with that statement.

Where is that code section?  Remember that this is an existing branch circuit that was approved when installed some years ago.

I understand the ARC fault protection that's required if this were a new installation of a branch circuit under the 2011 NEC.

This is not a new circuit...not a theoretical circuit...this is an existing approved circuit.

What I can't find is a code section that would require an existing branch circuit to be retrofitted with ARC fault protection.

If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit.


----------



## MASSDRIVER (Nov 17, 2013)

It's under the code for lobbyists working for Arc fault device manufactures.

Brent.


----------



## Fort (Nov 17, 2013)

Well, CA adopts the 2013 CA Electric Code, based on the 2011 NEC.

I would say only if the curcuit in question is being altered would it need to upgraded to Arc Fault device.


----------



## ICE (Nov 17, 2013)

http://store.leviton.com/AFCI-Home-Electrical-Media/b/7146586011?ie=UTF8&title=AFCI

http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/97806/LEV-AFTR1T.html?utm_source=SmartFeedPriceGrabber&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_term=LEVAFTR1T&utm_content=ElectricalReceptaclesAFCIReceptacles&utm_campaign=SmartFeedPriceGrabber&thissku=LEV777dash777AFTR1T&site=pricegrabber.com

The prices are ten times the cost of a regular receptacle.


----------



## mark handler (Nov 17, 2013)

ICE said:
			
		

> http://store.leviton.com/AFCI-Home-Electrical-Media/b/7146586011?ie=UTF8&title=AFCIhttp://www.1000bulbs.com/product/97806/LEV-AFTR1T.html?utm_source=SmartFeedPriceGrabber&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_term=LEVAFTR1T&utm_content=ElectricalReceptaclesAFCIReceptacles&utm_campaign=SmartFeedPriceGrabber&thissku=LEV777dash777AFTR1T&site=pricegrabber.com
> 
> The prices are ten times the cost of a regular receptacle.


There are Some good Mike Holt videos...on youtube explaining Arc faults


----------



## Dennis (Nov 18, 2013)

There is nowhere in the NEC that requires an existing circuit to be retrofitted with afci unless that circuit has been modified as discussed in 210.12(B), The exception allows for a panel replacement without having to add afci.  Thus if the wires don't reach and you need to add up to 6' to get to the panel then no afci is required as long as no outlet is added in between.

The purpose of 210.12(A)(4) is to allow nm to the first outlet as long as the run is not over 50' for 14 awg or 70' for 12 awg and their is a listed afci receptacle at the first outlet.  I believe they feel the impedance of the 14 wire will handle a fault successfully up to 50' and 70' for 12 without afci protection.  After that distance the impedance is too great????


----------



## electriclese (Nov 20, 2013)

0n 1-1-2014 we adopt the 2011 NEC

Love that part.  LoL


----------



## Gregg Harris (Nov 20, 2013)

ICE said:
			
		

> There are still some things to hash out.  For example, there is ARC fault protection.406.4 General Installation Requirements
> 
> (4) Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection. Where a receptacle outlet is supplied by a branch circuit that requires arc-fault circuit interrupter protection as specified elsewhere in this Code, a replacement receptacle at this outlet shall be one of the following: See related ROP
> 
> ...


406.4 General Installation Requirements

(4) Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection. Where a receptacle outlet is supplied by a branch circuit that requires arc-fault circuit interrupter protection as specified elsewhere in this Code, a replacement receptacle at this outlet shall be one of the following: See related ROP

Changed From 2008

 406.4(D)(4): Added new requirement covering replacement of a receptacle at a location where arc-fault circuit interruption protection of the branch circuit is required.

(1) A listed outlet branch circuit type arc-fault circuit interrupter receptacle

(2) A receptacle protected by a listed outlet branch circuit type arc-fault circuit interrupter type receptacle

(3) A receptacle protected by a listed combination type arc-fault circuit interrupter type circuit breaker

This requirement becomes effective January 1, 2014.


----------



## ICE (Nov 20, 2013)

I just got off the phone with the chief electrical engineer.  His determination is that if a receptacle is replaced on a circuit that would require AFCI, if that circuit were installed today or ten years ago, it will have AFCI protection.


----------



## fatboy (Nov 20, 2013)

"I just got off the phone with the chief electrical engineer.  His determination is that if a receptacle is replaced on a circuit that would require AFCI, if that circuit were installed today or ten years ago, it will have AFCI protection."

I think that takes a huge leap to get to that opinion, replacement is just that, replacement, not upgrading. But that is JMHO.    :wink:


----------



## Dennis (Nov 20, 2013)

fatboy said:
			
		

> "I just got off the phone with the chief electrical engineer.  His determination is that if a receptacle is replaced on a circuit that would require AFCI, if that circuit were installed today or ten years ago, it will have AFCI protection."I think that takes a huge leap to get to that opinion, replacement is just that, replacement, not upgrading. But that is JMHO.    :wink:


I think that is very clear and IMO an afci would be required


----------



## fatboy (Nov 20, 2013)

My bad...........did not read through the section. Sheesh..........


----------

