# 32" wide stairway



## NH09 (Sep 15, 2010)

I have a contractor in town who built two 32" wide stairways off a new deck. I believe the code (2009 IRC) is clear that they need to be 36" wide min. Is anyone out there aware of any exceptions?


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## fatboy (Sep 15, 2010)

Nope, 36" minimum.


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## cboboggs (Sep 15, 2010)

Like fatboy said, 36" minimum


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## NH09 (Sep 15, 2010)

That's what I thought too, looks like they'll have to rebuild the stairs - thanks for the replies


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## Robert Ellenberg (Sep 15, 2010)

Where are you measuring the 32"?  R311.5 indicates the handrails can encroach on the 36" down to 31.5" with a hand rail on one side and 27" if installed on both sides and the width can be that from the hand rail down.  If this is a deck access I would assume it has 36"+ above the handrails.

I'm a builder, not an inspector so please correct me if I'm not reading this right.


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## fatboy (Sep 15, 2010)

Good point R.E., if the handrail(s) provided serves as the top of the guard, then you get down to 27" below the handrails.


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## Pcinspector1 (Sep 15, 2010)

How far from grade? May not need handrail!

pc1


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## peach (Sep 15, 2010)

Thanks fat.. I agree.. the treads only have to be 27".  the 36" is measured at handrail height.

Won't work, of course, in an enclosed stairway, but outside.. probably good.. (unless you have really thick smog).


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## NH09 (Sep 15, 2010)

Excellent points, I'm going to check R311.5 again - if I remember correctly the example they use is an interior stairway. This is a vinyl post to post system and the 32" is measured in between the handrail/baluster assemblys. Tread width is about 32" and it is open above the handrails (no smog but lots of mosquitos).


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## NH09 (Sep 16, 2010)

Just an update here, I researched figure R311.7.1 (09' IRC Code and Commentary) and it does appear show an area under the handrail that can be reduced as far as 27". However there are differing opinions here in the department and further discussion will be necessary. In the interest of moving things along it was decided that the contractor can barricade the stairways and provide a letter to the town stating the stairways are ornamental and will not be used for egress. The unit already has egress in another part of the building so the access off the deck is not required. I am starting to really see the value of using this board, thanks to all those who replied.


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## Mule (Sep 16, 2010)

I have had trouble in the past getting others to understand that some stairs are not required to be 36" wide. Glad to see others are recognizing it too.

NH09....told you you would love it! Glad to see you are seeing the value of our group.

Pass the word to others....


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## jwilly3879 (Oct 4, 2010)

"Stairway" is the area above the required handrail height and below the required ceiling height. A set of stairs from a deck have an unlimited stairway width.


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## fatboy (Oct 5, 2010)

Welcome aboard jwilly......


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## NH09 (Oct 5, 2010)

I would still think that you would want to keep that 27" minimum width.. otherwise the stairway starts to get very narrow-


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## DRP (Oct 5, 2010)

I've told this before I believe, but it gave me pause. I rebuilt a deck and stairs some years ago for an old disabled WWII vet. The ledger of the old deck let go while I was on it working, luckily my helper could have been named Sampson. Anyway, the stairs were narrow. He could stiffarm his way down them pretty well. When we replaced them with a new compliant set, complete with rain cover, midheight landing, and hell for stout by comparison, he never used them again.


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## Robert Ellenberg (Oct 5, 2010)

NH09--" However there are differing opinions here in the department and further discussion will be necessary."  Please share with us what those contrary opinions are and the basis for them.


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## JBI (Oct 5, 2010)

DRP - I remember that story, but it was much longer the last time...


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## JBI (Oct 5, 2010)

*When in doubt, quote the code:*

*R311.7 Stairways.*

*R311.7.1 Width.* Stairways shall not be less than 36 inches (914 mm) in clear width at all points above the permitted handrail height and below the required headroom height. Handrails shall not project more than 4.5 inches (114 mm) on either side of the stairway *and the minimum clear width of the stairway at and below the handrail height, including treads and landings, shall not be less than 311/2 inches (787 mm) where a handrail is installed on one side and 27 inches (698 mm) where handrails are provided on both sides. *(emphasis added for dramatic effect. For the record, I don't like it but it is what it is...)


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## DRP (Oct 5, 2010)

JBI,

Sorry for the lapse, the next rendition of an old coon hunting story will require both sides of a big chief pad   .


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## Glennman CBO (Oct 6, 2010)

How can anyone have a different opinion on JBI's code quote. It is extremely clear.

Also, the "effect" was very dramatic...very dramatic!


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## mark handler (Oct 6, 2010)

Does the "new deck" require stairs?


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## NH09 (Oct 6, 2010)

Robert Ellenberg said:
			
		

> NH09--" However there are differing opinions here in the department and further discussion will be necessary."  Please share with us what those contrary opinions are and the basis for them.


Initially it was interpreted that the stairway width, both below and above the handrail needed to be 36" minimum, with the exception that the handrails could protrude into that space. After consulting others on this forum, as well as revisiting the code section the answer is clear, and no further discussion is necessary.


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## JBI (Oct 6, 2010)

Did I mention that I don't always _like_ what the Codes say?


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## peach (Oct 9, 2010)

I worked for a jurisdiction where an inspector made the contractor rip out a set of stairs because of the width (measured at the treads).. it was a huge hardship for the owner and contractor and wasn't necessary... the same inspector tried to get me in trouble because I approved an exterior set of stairs "because they were too narrow" .. 32" treads.. 2 handrails.. air above...  No issue.. until he tried to make an issue.


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## allis_ch (Oct 26, 2010)

Are both stairways required?  I would vote that the required one is required to be 36" except handrail width as noted above.


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