# Doors in series?



## steveray

BathROOM door and stall door (straight ahead from room door) considered doors in series? Pretty sure I know and it is right there in writing, but I get surprised when stuff like this gets submitted by DP's....


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## cda

Not sure if it applies

1008.1.8 Door arrangement. Space between two doors in a series shall be 48 inches (1219 mm) minimum plus the width of a door swinging into the space. Doors in a series shall swing either in the same direction or away from the space between the doors.

Exceptions:

1. The minimum distance between horizontal sliding power-operated doors in a series shall be 48 inches (1219 mm).

2. Storm and screen doors serving individual dwelling units in Groups R-2 and R-3 need not be spaced 48 inches (1219 mm) from the other door.

3. Doors within individual dwelling units in Groups R-2 and R-3 other than within Type A dwelling units.


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## cda

Check page 17 and 18

Appears can be met in three different ways


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## Yikes

I'm going to resurrect this old thread with a follow-up question:  How do you know when doors are intended to be used "in series", versus "just happen to be close to each other"?

Take a look at this illustration of an accessible hotel room from the 2010 ADA standards:







http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/2010ADAStandards/images/plan3b_gst-rm.jpg

It shows the door from the bathroom with clearances overlapping the entry door and what appears to be a second door likely leading to another hotel room or part of a suite.  Also, there's clearly not 48" between them.  How is a determination made whether or not they are "in series"?


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## cda

Looks like a normal hotel room.

Door to get in is just that, normally shut

The one in the wall more than likely does a 180, but normally closed


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## cda

Check 1008.1.8 examples

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/ibc/2009f2cc/icod_ibc_2009f2cc_10_sec008.htm?bu2=undefined


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## mark handler

Good question

imho

private space,  use of one door does not nessisaraly require the entry tthough another door? In a commercial vestibule it does.


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## mark handler

The ADASAD CONFLICTS with the IBC 1008.1.8 Door arrangement examples. The bath and adjoining unit door interferes with the egress out of the unit.


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## ADAguy

See exception 3 in 1008 for R2 & R3. Note: Illustrations indicate vestibules in ICC but not in ADASAD illustration.


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## Yikes

cda - the examples in 1008.1.8 in the link you sent are not able to justify the arrangement shown in the ADA guidelines.

ADAguy - exception #3 is for doors in individual dwelling units that are OTHER THAN adaptable or accessible (type A) dwelling units.

Mark: so what you are saying is, I found an error in the standards and guidelines published on the government's ADA website?

If so, do I get a cash reward, like those hackers that get paid to find security vulnerabilities in government computer networks?


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## cda

> cda - the examples in 1008.1.8 in the link you sent are not able to justify the arrangement shown in the ADA guidelines.ADAguy - exception #3 is for doors in individual dwelling units that are OTHER THAN adaptable or accessible (type A) dwelling units.
> 
> Mark: so what you are saying is, I found an error in the standards and guidelines published on the government's ADA website?
> 
> If so, do I get a cash reward, like those hackers that get paid to find security vulnerabilities in government computer networks?


I was just sending Stevie Ray example of door in series, which I would say is not what is in the hotel room diagram


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## steveray

Standby...I reorganized my pics....

This is what I am talking about Willis....

Better?


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## mark handler

By the way, steve ray, the picture link does not work, for me.


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## cda

Me either

My CIA access level must have expired ??


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## ADAguy

Interesting plan Steve, food for thought.

Brings to mind a 1924 apartment house I surveyed yesterday. 32" doors from the common hallway, would it be seen as a hardship to have to change out the hinges for laybacks, (can't remove the doorstops)  and to replace the knob sets (crystals) with mortise? only for the accessible units and not the rest (10 units per floor, 2 stories, no elevator) ? Wait until a disabled tenant applies and then only their unit (landlord pays for corridor door and tenant pays for accommodations?)

Landlord hit with a suit by a "tester (disabled)" working for a law firm seeking to plow new fields. Used websites and Google maps to identify potential buildings. Filed in Federal but seeking Unrhu damages.


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## Paul Sweet

The doors in the plan Steveray posted would be considered inseries unless there is a turnaround space outside the door swings.

The plan Yikes posted meets the IBC, as long as the bathroom and adjoining room doors swing 180 degrees.  The required corridor width is 36", IBC 1005.7.1 says "Doors, when fully opened, shall not reduce the required width by more than 7 inches (178 mm). Doors in any position shall not reduce the required width by more than one-half."  This requires a 4'-6" wide corridor when a 36" door swings into it.  The minimum to get a 2" frame + 34" door + 18" maneuvering space is also 4'-6".


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## mark handler

Steve,

Shower does no meet code

Is it commercial? Residential?

If SF Residential, series issue NOT Applicable.

Make it a single user Restroom. A case could be made that the user must close the exterior door before opening the interior door. Both could have closers.


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## steveray

Thanks Mark, they came in with this revised plan on Thursday at about 4 for a Friday morning inspection and said "we added a shower"...and I told them it needed to be accessible. It is an office building. I can't get the cocktail napkins to go through the scanner to post a residential plan...


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## Francis Vineyard

An accessible route as part of a circulation path may lead to bathrooms consisting of accessible elements and spaces.

ICC A117.1 401.1 Scope. Accessible routes required by the scoping provisions adopted by the administrative authority shall comply with the applicable provisions of Chapter 4.

IBC 1104.5 Location. Accessible routes shall coincide with or be located in the same area as a general circulation path. Where the circulation path is interior, the accessible route shall also

be interior. Where only one accessible route is provided, the accessible route shall not pass through kitchens, storage rooms, restrooms, closets or similar spaces.

CIRCULATION PATH. An exterior or interior way of passage from one place to another for pedestrians.

Let me know if I missed something.


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## mark handler

> Thanks Mark' date=' they came in with this revised plan on Thursday at about 4 for a Friday morning inspection and said "we added a shower"...and I told them it needed to be accessible. It is an office building. I can't get the cocktail napkins to go through the scanner to post a residential plan...  [/quote']Office building? Is the shower for office workers?
> 
> open to the public?


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## steveray

> Office building? Is the shower for office workers?
> 
> open to the public?


It is accessed by the common corridor...Not sure how the use would be limited. Open to whoever is in the building IMO. 1109.2(?) gives you the partial gimme for "private" bathrooms, but mentions nothing of showers.


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## mark handler

> Open to whoever is in the building .


Must meet accessibility req'mts


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## JPohling

Does anyone have a link to a diagram that shows the correct way to measure the 48" spacing requirement for doors in series when the doors are in a vestibule and they are 90 degrees to each other?  What I am describing is a typical restroom vestibule situation.    All the diagrams I see are for doors where the walls are parallel to each other.


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## mp25

for this section of the code, i've interpreted it as saying that there needs to be enough room for a wheelchair to be located outside of the swing of the doors. In odd shaped vestibules with angled walls, i've showed the arc of doors being open 90 degrees, a 30x48 space outside of those arcs and a turning space (that could overlap the other clearances). I would consider that meeting the intent of the code, as it provides a person in a wheelchair space to be outside of the doors swing with both doors in the open position..


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