# The Word is “de minimis“



## cda (Jul 27, 2018)

The "_de minimis_" worktime concept is a common-sense, court-recognized notion dating from the federal Fair Labor Standards Act's earliest days. It has been articulated by the U.S. Labor Department this way:

In recording working time...,insubstantial or insignificant periods of time beyond the scheduled working hours, which cannot as a practical administrative matter be precisely recorded for payroll purposes, may be disregarded. * * * This rule applies only where there are uncertain and indefinite periods of time involved of a few seconds or minutes duration, and where the failure to count such time is due to considerations justified by industrial realities. An employer may not arbitrarily fail to count as hours worked any part, however small, of the employee's fixed or regular working time or practically ascertainable period of time he is regularly required to spend on duties assigned to him.


https://www.fisherphillips.com/Wage-and-Hour-Laws/The-Death-of-De-Minimis-Is-Greatly-Exaggerated


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## conarb (Jul 27, 2018)

CDA:

I don't see the relevance fo that here but ironically the California Supreme Court just came down against _"de minimus"_ yesterday:



			
				East Bay Times said:
			
		

> SAN FRANCISCO — Starbucks and other employers in California must pay workers for minutes they routinely spend off the clock on tasks such as locking up or setting the store alarm, the state Supreme Court ruled Thursday.
> 
> Troester said he activated the store alarm, locked the front door and walked co-workers to their cars — tasks that required him to work for four to 10 additional minutes a day.
> 
> ...



What we've always done by union policy is to make the carpenters get to work before 8:00 am and "roll out" to start work at 8:00 am, in return we give the carpenters time to stop work early enough to "roll up" and leave the site by 4:30 pm. 


¹ https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2018/07/26/california-court-workers-must-be-paid-for-off-clock-tasks/


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## ICE (Jul 27, 2018)

What a bunch of weenies.  Everybody that I know who has a job spends plenty of free time at work.  I lose an hour a day.


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## RJJ (Jul 28, 2018)

As an employer! And how much time did he/she/ other spend on their iPhone surfing the web while on the clock?


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## ICE (Jul 28, 2018)

conarb said:


> CDA:
> 
> I don't see the relevance fo that here but ironically the California Supreme Court just came down against _"de minimus"_ yesterday:
> 
> ...


We never started at 8:00 am.   Daybreak is more like it.


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## tmurray (Aug 3, 2018)

As a manager, the way I always look at is if I as their supervisor asked them to do something I pay them for it. In the Starbucks example, once you stop paying an employee they are under no obligation to perform work related duties, so they could just walk out the door. Not set the alarm or lock it. If I'm not paying them to do that, how can I fire someone for not doing it?


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