# Detectable Warning Alternatives - California



## JPohling (Feb 21, 2013)

I have a retail client that has locations throughout California.  Several locations are pad buildings that have about 8 feet or so from the front entry doors to the parking lot (vehicular way).  In several instances this transition to the parking lot is a flush curb condition that would require detectable warnings be installed.

This client is very reluctant to install the "ugly bumpy things" and is hoping that there is an alternative solution.   I have seen a couple ideas proposed that I am wondering if anyone has had any success in having approved as an alternative method to the detectable dots.  The first idea that I have seen proposed is to install bollards at the transition spaced a maximum of 36" between bollards to allow the visually impaired to detect the bollards with a cane sweep.  Seems like a decent concept to me, we could alter the paving a bit as well so there is an acoustical difference as well perhaps.

The other idea is the concept that traffic moving at 5 MPH or less does not require detectable warnings.  I cannot remember where I had read this, but it seems to be the reason why there are not detectable warnings required along sidewalks whenever they cross a driveway.  So if that is acceptable could 5 MPH speed limit signs be installed near this entry,  or speed bumps be placed accross the drive aisles adjacent to the entry that would slow the traffic down?

Comments, concerns, or ideas appreciated!


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## Jasper (Feb 22, 2013)

As a practical matter, most drivers do not obey 5 MPH speed limit signs.  For one thing, many cars' spedometers compress the range from 0 - 10 MPH.  This means that even if drivers try to stay below 5 MPH, they probably cannot.

Could a bas relief artwork possibly satisfy both the client's taste and the alleged requirement?


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## mark handler (Feb 23, 2013)

The only option is to isolate the pedestrian walkway from the traffic. If the pedestrians must cross the path of car traffic there are no options


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## martinpgrant (Feb 28, 2013)

They come in lots of colors!

Example:  ADA Solutions | Manufacturers of Detectable Warning Systems


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## mark handler (Feb 28, 2013)

martinpgrant said:
			
		

> They come in lots of colors! Example:  ADA Solutions | Manufacturers of Detectable Warning Systems


They must contrast the adjoining material


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## JPohling (Feb 28, 2013)

Thanks for the link,  we prefer to use the concrete pavers as its a more finished look.  The issue that I have with the detectable warning dots really is not the look, but they seem to cause way mare falls and injuries than they prevent.  people with walkers and canes have a difficult time with them.  I have seen many folks that do not quite pick up their feet like the rest of us have difficult times negotiating them.  And with the preponderance of the curb cuts being installed as a single curb cut on the corner I have personally rescued two blind people that are walking diagonally across the intersections.  So we have warned the visually impaired that they are about to enter a vehicular way, but we have set them up to walk diagonally across the intersection right into harms way.  WTH!


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## mark handler (Feb 28, 2013)

JPohling said:
			
		

> but they seem to cause way mare falls and injuries than they prevent.


Please provide info on this.


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## mark handler (Feb 28, 2013)

> allegations mentioned by some commenters that properly installed detectable  warnings cause safety problems (e.g., for persons using crutches or walkers, or  pedestrians wearing high heels) are not supported by any evidence of these  problems actually having occurred.


FTA - Americans with Disabilities Act - Transportation for Individuals with Disabilities --Detectable Warnings, Standees on Lifts, Equivalent Facilitation, Priority Seating, Rail Car Acquisition



> Raised tactile surfaces have been shown to be very effective in actual application.BART in the San Francisco Bay Area and METRO DADE transit in Miami have used raised tactile surfaces as systemwide warnings on platform edges since 1989 and have documented no instances of rider dissatisfaction with truncated dome surfaces (Figure 4-30). In contrast, the overall incidence of trips, slips, and falls at platform edges has been significantly reduced. In addition, BART riders exhibit an increased sense of drop-off awareness by tending to "stand farther from the platform edge than MUNI (San Francisco) riders standing at different tracks in the same stations but lacking detectable warnings" (Bentzen, Nolin, and Easton, 1994).


Chapter 4 - Sidewalk Design Guidelines and Existing Practices - Sidewalks - Publications - Bicycle & Pedestrian - Environment - FHWA


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## JPohling (Feb 28, 2013)

I do not have any links to studies, that is why I said "seem to"  because its completely based upon my observations of people actually falling and constantly seeing people having difficulty negotiating the curb ramps with detectable warnings.  My office overlooks a high pedestrian traffic intersection and its fairly common for people in walkers to actually  move to the side and raise the walker up and step over the curb rather than fighting the dots.  its a little easier now that we can line the dots up in the direction of travel.  They certainly have their place in transit.   Rescuing blind folks from the center of the intersection because they thought they were crossing perpendicular to the street, but because the curb ramp was on the corner had them going off at a diagonal really made me think they could use the audible cue from the signal they have at some intersections when the ramp is on the corner.


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## mychaelp (Mar 6, 2013)

I would go ahead and do the domes. Over at Irvine Spectrum in Orange County they blend in rather well. They poured a strip of concrete gray color about 6" wide all around the 30" or so wide of domes. They used dark gray for the domes themselves. It looks top notch to me. Don't go with the 5mph in my opinion. My old office building did this to get the building official to allow it and not only did the 5mph paint wear off fast, but someone complained to the City about it not being compliant with ADA and they came after us. So we installed the "stick-on" types. These types I don't recommend as they do not last well in harsh sun. At least ours didn't. 3 years or so.

here's an article about the domes and various options/photos:

Truncated Domes - ADA Guidelines


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## mark handler (Mar 6, 2013)

Welcome to the board mychaelp


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## Msradell (Mar 6, 2013)

mychaelp said:
			
		

> I would go ahead and do the domes. Over at Irvine Spectrum in Orange County they blend in rather well. They poured a strip of concrete gray color about 6" wide all around the 30" or so wide of domes. They used dark gray for the domes themselves. It looks top notch to me. Don't go with the 5mph in my opinion. My old office building did this to get the building official to allow it and not only did the 5mph paint wear off fast, but someone complained to the City about it not being compliant with ADA and they came after us. So we installed the "stick-on" types. These types I don't recommend as they do not last well in harsh sun. At least ours didn't. 3 years or so.here's an article about the domes and various options/photos:
> 
> Truncated Domes - ADA Guidelines


This sounds that it looks very nice, but the section with domes is supposed to have a stark contrast visually according to the codes.  It doesn't sound like having the gray concrete around the dark gray dome section will create this visual distinction very well.


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