# Stair Code Violation?



## 4thorns (Nov 3, 2011)

Due to space restrictions on the first floor, the wall with the basement door in it has to be moved back, creating a small "Landing" if you will on the outside (basement side) of the door. In thisscenario there are no other options. I've looked through the IRC to try to find applicable codes for this situation but to no avail. Is this projection of the floor considered a landing, a stair tread or something else? What code would it fall under and is there a limit to it's size?See Attached.
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 1116

	

		
			
		

		
	
Thanks,Doug

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/monthly_2011_11/572953e43756a_BasementStairs.JPG.27c47e1a39294e85384f6572dd779c3a.JPG


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## fatboy (Nov 3, 2011)

I've seen it before, I've always just figured once the door is open, it is part of the floor space leading to the stair. Curious to see other answers though.


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## 4thorns (Nov 3, 2011)

Thanks for the reply Fatboy. Pretty much my thought too. My reason for asking is that I'm worried about that one fool that doesn't look before he steps down. Assuming that he knows it's a basement door his first instinct

might be that there is no floor there. Most stairs that I've seen, protected by a door start at about midway of the door itself. If he's expecting a drop it could throw off his balance and send him for a ride! I was just wondering if the codes actually cover this situation.


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## brudgers (Nov 3, 2011)

4thorns said:
			
		

> I'm worried about that one fool


  No code can eliminate stupidity.


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## 4thorns (Nov 3, 2011)

> No code can eliminate stupidity.


Agree 100%. Just trying to make sure that the homeowner doesn't get sued because some idiot wasn't paying attention.


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## jeharrarch (Nov 3, 2011)

There is no landing - as a landing is defined as 36" min. in length and as wide as the stair it serves; however, the situation complies precisely with the exception to R311.7.5 (at least under the Virginia Code...). The only way to prevent fools from falling down stairs is to prohibit stairs, period.


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## High Desert (Nov 3, 2011)

I have approved that exact scenario a couple of times. I required the stairs and bottom landing to be covered in 4 inches of foam padding in case someone fell down.


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## Francis Vineyard (Nov 3, 2011)

"A floor or landing is not required at the top of an interior flight of stairs, including stairs in an enclosed garage, provided a door does not swing over the stairs."

There is no minimum size for mentioned for a floor nor is there one required. At the end of the day the door is not required.

High Desert my bother use to slam the door when I ran up the stairs; padding didn't help!


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## Yankee (Nov 3, 2011)

4thorns said:
			
		

> Most stairs that I've seen, protected by a door start at about midway of the door itself. If he's expecting a drop it could throw off his balance and send him for a ride! I was just wondering if the codes actually cover this situation.


I don't understand what you mean by "midway of the door itself"? . . . In any case, what you have is fine IMHO


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## 4thorns (Nov 3, 2011)

[



> I don't understand what you mean by "midway of the door itself"?


Most details I've seen show the stair connection like the attached.ATTACH]1119[/ATTACH]
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 491


View attachment 491


/monthly_2011_11/572953c1791e5_TopStep.JPG.e4341a51bfd8dacd498d3e4804c4d2aa.JPG


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## 4thorns (Nov 3, 2011)

> "A floor or landing is not required at the top of an interior flight of stairs, including stairs in an enclosed garage, provided a door does not swing over the stairs."


That should put it to rest. Thanks


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## Yankee (Nov 3, 2011)

4thorns said:
			
		

> [Most details I've seen show the stair connection like the attached.
> 
> ATTACH]1119[/ATTACH]


 That is an incorrect detail, in any case. Doors don't really hang over the threshold.


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## Min&Max (Nov 3, 2011)

4thorns,

I have never seen a door installed at the top of a stairway like that. The jamb and trim must look nasty.


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## KZQuixote (Nov 4, 2011)

4thorns said:
			
		

> Agree 100%. Just trying to make sure that the homeowner doesn't get sued because some idiot wasn't paying attention.


Not your concern! Built a number of identical stairways. Never been any questions.

Bill


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## DRP (Nov 4, 2011)

If we've put that end of the stair to bed, I have another situation. The door is immediately at the bottom. It'll take an 88" door IMO, is there any other objection?


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## Yankee (Nov 4, 2011)

I've allowed that situation with the suggestion that they raise the doorknob : )


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## 4thorns (Nov 4, 2011)

> I have never seen a door installed at the top of a stairway like that. The jamb and trim must look nasty.


For an unfinished basement you just make sure that the side facing into the house is pretty. For a finished look on the basement side it gets a little tricky but I've done it and it turned out pretty nice.


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## jeharrarch (Nov 4, 2011)

DRP - the exception to R311.7.5 only applies to landings at the top of a stair. You have to have a landing at the bottom - a door immediately at the bottom of the stair intrudes into the minimum required width (the width of the stairway) and would not comply (as I read the code). You can have a door _near_ the bottom of the stairs, but it needs to be clear of the minimum required landing depth.


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## NH09 (Nov 21, 2011)

jeharrarch said:
			
		

> DRP - the exception to R311.7.5 only applies to landings at the top of a stair. You have to have a landing at the bottom - a door immediately at the bottom of the stair intrudes into the minimum required width (the width of the stairway) and would not comply (as I read the code). You can have a door _near_ the bottom of the stairs, but it needs to be clear of the minimum required landing depth.


Agreed, that is how we handle it. A lot of basements are unfinished when a house is sold, so having the door at the top of the stairs complies with code and is not an issue. Later, when the basement is finished we require the 36" landing not just because it is in the code, but reaching down to operate the doorknob from the first or second step up is awkward (for some reason less awkward than having to reach higher when the door is at the top of the stairs).


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## Pcinspector1 (Nov 21, 2011)

This design has been allowed for years, trac housing comes to mind. I have seen the space at the top with multiple widths but common to see it the 1/2 width of a doors split jamb or soild jamb. The wreck happens when there's mutilple stair rise heights or the jacks get overcut and the framer gets all bent out of shape when the stairs have to be redone. IMO

pc1


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## peach (Nov 22, 2011)

looks like a riser onto a landing to me


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## Daddy-0- (Dec 18, 2011)

I see no violation with the picture posted. Not great design but that is nothing new.


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