# Through penetration made of wood



## michaelj (Sep 23, 2011)

How does one protect a through penetration made of wood? All the fire stop systems I have found list PVC, metal, copper, cables, steel, but do not list a penetration made of wood.  Situation is a 1 hour rated seperation, from floor to underside of roof deck, wood truss. wall running perpendicular to trusses so the bottom cord of the truss would be a through penetration. how would this be protected?


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## Codegeek (Sep 23, 2011)

Do you not have a rated floor/ceiling assembly that would address the protection of the truss with the rated wall terminating at the bottom of the floor/ceiling assembly?


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## Kevin Turner (Sep 23, 2011)

I have seen truss rocked with Type X GB both sides and capped on end with with Type X GB 4' from the face of the firewall, same theory as 4' horizontal protection for the roof protection.


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## AegisFPE (Sep 23, 2011)

Framing into fire-resistive construction in wood-frame buildings is challenging.

Firestopping manufacturers may be able to assist with engineering judgments if you can tell them where you need protection.

A Fire Protection Engineer may be able to assist in developing an approach to demonstrate the appropriate level of protection, and assist in guiding and evaluating the manufacturer's engineering judgment.


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## Buelligan (Sep 28, 2011)

Similar situation.

I have a CMU fire wall from the floor to the underside of roof deck. The wall will be perpendicular for about 12 feet so six trusses will penetrate the wall from bottom chord to the top. I also have trouble finding anything pertaining to this situation. Any guidance would be appreciated. Would the trusses need to be protected for 4 feet on both sides or is fire caulk at the wall enough as per the plan?


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## AegisFPE (Sep 28, 2011)

One item to clarify is the term "fire wall."

With a truss web running through the wall, it may be a "fire barrier" but not likely a "fire wall" due to the requirements for structural stability of the building on each side of the wall.

A first step to determining if the proposed fire caulk is adequate, or how it should be applied in this unique situation, could be to ask the fire caulk manufacturer for an engineering judgment.

They may be unable to provide such information, in which case you should consult a Fire Protection Engineer.


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## steveray (Sep 28, 2011)

Big difference between "fire wall" and "fire rated wall"....see Chapter 7 IBC


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## Buelligan (Sep 29, 2011)

The building is 7500 sqft and to separate it, they want this wall between the S1 storage and B office space. The wall will meet the definition of fire wall - self supporting after collapse on either side. But it is labeled as only a "fire rated wall" on the plans. So I assume it is ok, but just would like to be clear on it. Thanks again.


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## imhotep (Sep 29, 2011)

7,500 VB building w/ S-1 & B occupancy, 1 story.  Non-sprinkled?

S-1 max area 9,000 SF, 1 story.  Table 503

B max area 9,000 SF, 2 story.  Table 503

Building complies in terms of Height and area.

Building complies for non-separated mixed-use occupancy per 508.3.

Even so....

S-1 to B - No separation required. Table 508.4

Fire Wall is not required.

Fire Barrier not required.

RDP is calling out block wall with fire caulk or foam where wood truss web penetrates CMU.  I don't see that the RDP is calling out rated construction.

Looks like the wall section is being driven by something other than code.

Am I missing something?


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## gbhammer (Sep 29, 2011)

imhotep is right. not required as described.


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## Buelligan (Sep 29, 2011)

903.2.9 *Group S-1* An _automatic sprinkler system_ shall be provided throughout all buildings containing a Group S-1 occupancy where one of the following conditions exist:

4. A Group S-1 _fire area_ used for the storage of commercial trucks or buses where the _fire area_ exceeds 5,000 sqft.

This is a volunteer fire house and the state fire marshal amended this to allow 6000 sqft. But either way I assumed this applied.

iamhotep - the fire rated wall is labeled on another sheet in the set.


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## gbhammer (Sep 29, 2011)

Buelligan said:
			
		

> 903.2.9 *Group S-1* An _automatic sprinkler system_ shall be provided throughout all buildings containing a Group S-1 occupancy where one of the following conditions exist:4. A Group S-1 _fire area_ used for the storage of commercial trucks or buses where the _fire area_ exceeds 5,000 sqft.
> 
> This is a volunteer fire house and the state fire marshal amended this to allow 6000 sqft. But either way I assumed this applied.
> 
> iamhotep - the fire rated wall is labeled on another sheet in the set.


Ah now the picture becomes more clear.

Do they have bunks?

If they have beds they have an R use and your back to sprinklers all over again.


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## Buelligan (Sep 29, 2011)

Nope No bunks! LOL


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## gbhammer (Sep 29, 2011)

We have a lot of Ambulance/Fire houses and they all have sleeping quarters. I almost lost my job when the county executive started getting complaints about me from the leaders of the community. They all asked who in the **** I thought I was telling the RDP that sprinklers were required in a non-separated R/B/S2 mixed use group, oh and half of them wanted to have an assembly space for community meetings so throw in some A3. That was about a year after we adopted the 2003.


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## Buelligan (Sep 29, 2011)

I'll bet that was fun. The last volunteer house we had was sort of the same as this one and they were not happy about separation. They said something like "are you kidding me, we are a fire house! If we burn down something is not right! Why do we need to do all this?" They basically felt that since they were a fire house that fire codes did not apply to them. I understand the volunteer houses work with very limited funds but code is code. We have three counties in the panhandle and I'm pretty sure there is only 1 paid fire company with ALL others being volunteer. We have 6 in this county and none are paid!


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## gbhammer (Sep 29, 2011)

Buelligan said:
			
		

> I'll bet that was fun. The last volunteer house we had was sort of the same as this one and they were not happy about separation. They said something like "are you kidding me, we are a fire house! If we burn down something is not right! Why do we need to do all this?" They basically felt that since they were a fire house that fire codes did not apply to them. I understand the volunteer houses work with very limited funds but code is code. We have three counties in the panhandle and I'm pretty sure there is only 1 paid fire company with ALL others being volunteer. We have 6 in this county and none are paid!


We have 13 fire districts and some refuse to permit their buildings. We are not allowed to touch them, even if they are in direct violation of any of our ordinances. Most have come around and work great with us. There are a few hold outs, but I have faith that they'll join the bandwagon, their all good people just missguided.


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## peach (Sep 30, 2011)

well, it's not a very good design - it's better to create the fire rated partition first, then set the trusses (maybe on a ledger - but I'm not a designer).  Around here, we see alot of intumescent paint on wood members particularly on historic structures.. I'm not convinced it meets the intent of the code, but it's accepted.


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