# Risers to an exterior sliding glass door



## sch1223

I have built several homes in three code enforcement areas where in the lower level I put two or three interior risers to the exterior sliding glass door to the rear patio.  The steps to the sliding door are beneficial because it creates the walk-out lower level scenario and allows for adequate fall in the back yard.  In another community I am told I need a landing even though there is no door swinging over steps, and even though there is only 1 exterior riser down to the patio.  I feel a landing would take up a lot of space and look a bit intrusive.  In looking into this, two building code enforcement agencies are interpreting R311.3.2 differently.  Even though it gives an exception where 'a landing is not required where a stairway of two or fewer risers is located on the exterior side of the door, providing the door does not swing over the stairway'.  There is also a difference of opinion where R102.1 General.  This states where there is a conflict between a general and a specific requirement, the specific shall be applicable.  My interpretation is that includes specific exceptions.

I welcome feedback to this matter.


----------



## steveray

From the 2009....What code are you on?....

R311.3 Floors and landings at exterior doors. There shall be a landing or floor on each side of each exterior door. The width of each landing shall not be less than the door served. Every landing shall have a minimum dimension of 36 inches (914 mm) measured in the direction of travel. Exterior landings shall be permitted to have a slope not to exceed 1/4 unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent).

Exception: Exterior balconies less than 60 square feet (5.6 m2) and only accessible from a door are permitted to have a landing less than 36 inches (914 mm) measured in the direction of travel.

It is pretty specific and that is what I would go with....


----------



## Rick18071

I agree, no landing required


----------



## sch1223

Thank you for your response.  R311.3.2 is a sub-paragragh to R311.3, wouldn't that be a more specific ruling and especially its exception paragraph stating 'A landing is not required where the stairway of two or fewer risers is located on the exterior side of the door, provided the door does not swing over the stairway'?


----------



## mjesse

sch1223 said:
			
		

> R311.3.2 ... exception where "a landing is not required where a stairway of two or fewer risers is located on the exterior side of the door, providing the door does not swing over the stairway".


That says it all for me.

One exterior riser from door to patio = no landing required.

Welcome to the forum

mj


----------



## ICE

An odd thing with that code section is that the top of the threshold can be as much as 7.75" above the floor or step/landing on both sides of the door.


----------



## mjesse

ICE said:
			
		

> An odd thing with that code section is that the top of the threshold can be as much as 7.75" above the floor or step/landing on both sides of the door.


I've seen that set-up in some condo and hotel balconies


----------



## ICE

I first encountered this with a retro-fit slider.  The threshold was a tad over three inches.  The owner was an elderly lady and she was afraid she that she would trip and fall.  Of course I wrote a correction and found out how wrong I was.


----------



## steveray

What landing is the AHJ calling you on? Inside or out?


----------



## sch1223

steveray said:
			
		

> What landing is the AHJ calling you on? Inside or out?


  They are calling for a landing on the inside.  Thank you.


----------



## sch1223

steveray said:
			
		

> From the 2009....What code are you on?....R311.3 Floors and landings at exterior doors. There shall be a landing or floor on each side of each exterior door. The width of each landing shall not be less than the door served. Every landing shall have a minimum dimension of 36 inches (914 mm) measured in the direction of travel. Exterior landings shall be permitted to have a slope not to exceed 1/4 unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent).
> 
> Exception: Exterior balconies less than 60 square feet (5.6 m2) and only accessible from a door are permitted to have a landing less than 36 inches (914 mm) measured in the direction of travel.
> 
> It is pretty specific and that is what I would go with....


  Thank you for your response.  We are in the 2009 code however I believe the wording is the same on this particular topic.  R311.3.2 is a sub-paragraph to R311.3.  Wouldn't that be a more specific ruling and especially its exception paragraph stating 'A landing is not required where the stairway of two or fewer risers is located on the exterior side of the door, provided the door does not swing over the stairway'?


----------



## mtlogcabin

sch1223 said:
			
		

> They are calling for a landing on the inside.  Thank you.


Then this section may help you out

R311.7.5 Landings for stairways.

There shall be a floor or landing at the top and bottom of each stairway.

Exception: A floor or landing is not required at the top of an interior flight of stairs, including stairs in an enclosed garage, provided a door does not swing over the stairs. A flight of stairs shall not have a vertical rise larger than 12 feet (3658 mm) between floor levels or landings. The width of each landing shall not be less than the width of the stairway served. Every landing shall have a minimum dimension of 36 inches (914 mm) measured in the direction of travel.


----------



## sch1223

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Then this section may help you outR311.7.5 Landings for stairways.
> 
> There shall be a floor or landing at the top and bottom of each stairway.
> 
> Exception: A floor or landing is not required at the top of an interior flight of stairs, including stairs in an enclosed garage, provided a door does not swing over the stairs. A flight of stairs shall not have a vertical rise larger than 12 feet (3658 mm) between floor levels or landings. The width of each landing shall not be less than the width of the stairway served. Every landing shall have a minimum dimension of 36 inches (914 mm) measured in the direction of travel.


 Thank you.  Personally I agree.  One item they said was they are considering these interior steps to the slider leading to the patio exterior steps due to the fact that it leads to an exterior door.  I mentioned that to the head of another region and he said but it's in the inside of the home.  So this is why I'm seeking experienced feedback.


----------



## tmurray

sch1223 said:
			
		

> Thank you.  Personally I agree.  One item they said was they are considering these interior steps to the slider leading to the patio exterior steps due to the fact that it leads to an exterior door.  I mentioned that to the head of another region and he said but it's in the inside of the home.  So this is why I'm seeking experienced feedback.


Sounds like they made a bad call and are now trying to justify it by misinterpreting the sentence rather than admit their mistake.


----------



## steveray

Big conflict between R311.7.5 and R311.3 I think they could call it either way and be right....Welcome to codeland!


----------



## ndaniels

Is this the only door that meets the egress door requirements?  If not I think the exception would apply.


----------



## mtlogcabin

I don't see a conflict

R311.3.2 Floor elevations for other exterior doors.Doors other than the required egress door shall be provided with landings or floors not more than 73/4 inches (196 mm) below the top of the threshold.

Exception: A landing is not required where a stairway of two or fewer risers is located on the exterior side of the door, provided the door does not swing over the stairway.

A sliding door can't be a required exit door.

R311.7.5 is for any interior stairway

STAIR. A change in elevation, consisting of one or more risers.

STAIRWAY. One or more flights of stairs, either interior or exterior, with the necessary landings and platforms connecting them to form a continuous and uninterrupted passage from one level to another within or attached to a building, porch or deck.


----------



## steveray

Other than MOE door....2 landings required....exception for exterior...interior not exempted, 1 required....interior required for door purposes, but not stair purposes.  Neither is really more specific, but interior being required would be more stringent


----------



## mtlogcabin

R311.3 is a general requirement requiring landings on both sides of all exterior doors

R311.3.1 is specific  for required egress doors

R311.3.2 is for all other exterior doors which is applicable to the OP

R311.7 is a general requirement for stairs

R311.7.5 is a general requirement for all stairs

The Exception is specific to interior stairs. It does not specify what the door serves or where the stairs lead to.

Exterior stairs located on the exterior side of a door where already addressed in R311.3.2


----------



## sch1223

tmurray said:
			
		

> Sounds like they made a bad call and are now trying to justify it by misinterpreting the sentence rather than admit their mistake.


Your response confuses me a bit.  I am a builder where I believe 2-3 interior rises to an exterior sliding door with only 1 exterior rise down to the patio absolutely is within the code.  I do believe the building department in which I am applying is misinterpreting.  Not mine, but their side is the interior steps are considered exterior steps because it leads to an exterior door.  I don't agree with that and neither does three other building departments.


----------



## sch1223

ndaniels said:
			
		

> Is this the only door that meets the egress door requirements?  If not I think the exception would apply.


There are other doors that meet the egress requirement.   Thank you.


----------



## steveray

R311.3 Floors and landings at exterior doors. There shall be a landing or floor on each side of each exterior door.

R311.3.2 (which by the way is not listed on publicecodes) gets you out of the exterior landing....

What gets you out of the interior landing for the door? R311.7 gets you out of the interior landing for the stairs, not the door.....That is all I'm saying...


----------



## tmurray

sch1223 said:
			
		

> Your response confuses me a bit.  I am a builder where I believe 2-3 interior rises to an exterior sliding door with only 1 exterior rise down to the patio absolutely is within the code.  I do believe the building department in which I am applying is misinterpreting.  Not mine, but their side is the interior steps are considered exterior steps because it leads to an exterior door.  I don't agree with that and neither does three other building departments.


I was agreeing with you, sorry if that wasn't clear. I've just found that some inspectors will twist the word of the code to make it say whatever they want instead of admit to a contractor that they made a mistake. Personally, I think if  I can point out mistakes made and a contractor is supposed to fix them, they should be able to point out mistakes I make and I should fix them.


----------



## jpowell

Good discussion.  I agree with Steveray.  My two cents.

1. The sliding door is not considered the required egress door.  R311.2

2. The sliding door is an exterior door, thus 311.3.2 applies.  Must have landings on each side, except at the exterior where there is a stair of 2 or fewer risers.  This seems to require the interior landing.

3. Stairs R311.7.5 does exempt you from the landing at the top of the stairs, however the landing required by R311.3.2 supersedes that exemption.

I believe you are required to have that interior landing.


----------



## ICE

jpowell,

I understand your reasoning but I have questions.  The code will allow a step with no landing on the outside.  Why is a step with no landing any greater a hazard if it is on the inside?  Is the problem that there could be a step on both sides of the door?  If that's the case, why not allow a step on the inside if there is a landing on the outside?

Is a stairway that terminates at an exterior door not an interior stairway?

R311.7.5 Landings for stairways. There shall be a floor or

landing at the top and bottom of each stairway.

Exception: A floor or landing is not required at the top of

an *interior flight of stairs*, including stairs in an enclosed

garage, provided a door does not swing over the stairs. A

flight of stairs shall not have a vertical rise larger than 12

feet (3658 mm) between floor levels or landings. The

width of each landing shall not be less than the width of the

stairway served. Every landing shall have a minimum

dimension of 36 inches (914 mm) measured in the direction

of travel.


----------



## steveray

ICE....It does not meet any of the exceptions for the exterior door without a landing on both sides....Not sure on the intent, maybe I can get to the commentary some day, We agree that it meets 311.7.5, but it does not meet 311.3.2...I do not know if one or the other should prevail.....

Maybe the exception for 311.7.5 should add " or at other locations exempted by this code" or something like that...


----------



## markw

The slider does not swing inside,no landing required. It also does not swing outside, no landing unless over 2 steps on the exterior. I think i read its not the egress door.


----------

