# This is why we require permits



## mark handler (Jan 29, 2019)

*This is why we check the licenses of contractors and require permits*

Most Texas Lawmakers Won’t Say If They’re Ready To Crack Down On Roofer Fraud
https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/01/28/texas-lawmakers-roofer-fraud/
Texans lose tens of thousands of dollars a year at the hands of fraudulent roofers, but state lawmakers could soon add some long-awaited consumer protections.
Dietitians, barbers and manicurists are all jobs with more oversight than roofers.
Jodi Johnson of Watauga said she had nowhere to turn when a rogue roofer stole her money last fall.
“There was tons of shingles outside of the house, there are still nails,” said Johnson. “It made me really angry because he stole our money.”
She nearly lost $6,000 after a crew removed every single shingle from her roof, then vanished.
“There are holes in the roof, we need a new roof, what are we going to do?” Johnson remembered thinking days before Thanksgiving.
There was only one thing to do: Finish the job herself. Johnson watched YouTube videos, then installed new shingles on her own roof.

Behind The Lens: CBS 11 crew talk about the ‘story behind the story’ while tracking down answers from Texas lawmakers about fraudulent roofers.
“So I was up on the roof, crawling around,” Johnson said. “I had bruises, scratches.”
Johnson had never fixed a roof in her life. Yet, in the eyes of Texas, she was just as qualified as the man who ripped her off.
“Every state in the U.S. should have protection from these people,” Johnson said.
Few, if any, Texas state laws punish fraudulent roofers, who often roll into town after a natural disaster.
The scenario has left thousands of homeowners with shoddy work or no work at all.
“I want money back,” said Vinny Xayasith, of Rockwall. “I want my money back so I can complete my roof.”
When it comes to roofing, Texas is the only Gulf state without protections for consumers.
But this year, during this legislative session in Austin, all that could change.
“We’re allowing people to get ripped off and we don’t have a remedy for them,” said attorney Steven Badger.
Badger has represented dozens of individual homeowners ripped off by shady roofing contractors. He is currently pursuing a class action on behalf of more than 100 North Texas homeowners who had their insurance checks totaling over $500,000 stolen by a single contractor.
Badger is backing a bill that would hold contractors accountable. He said perspective gained after Hurricane Harvey could be the impetus for change.
“There’s more awareness that has gotten people thinking that perhaps it’s time we finally need some regulation,” Badger said
Even the roofing industry is asking for more regulations.
“We’re very cognizant of the fact there are bad actors in our industry,” said Dan Pitts, the former president of the Roofing Contractors Association of Texas.
RCAT is asking for a bill that requires two pieces of information from roofing contractors: Proof of name and address.
From that, the state would create a database where consumers could research contractors in a transparent manner.
“The contractors would want to be on the list so they’re recognized by consumers,” Pitts said.
But while stakeholders and consumers appear to support changes, it’s unclear if Texas legislators do.
The Ones for Justice contacted every incumbent lawmaker ahead of the 2019 legislative session.
Nine percent of those legislators said they support a bill with more regulations, including Rep. Giovanni Capriglione, who authored a bill last session and plans to do so again.
A spokesperson for Rep. Craig Goldman wrote in an email, “This is an absolute priority.”
While only three lawmakers explicitly said they will not support a bill, 60 percent of the legislators CBS 11 contacted never responded.
If that’s surprising, consider this. For the past 10 years, every sizable effort aimed at regulating the roofing industry has died.
“Two chucks in a truck can show up after any hail or windstorm, call themselves a roofer, take people’s insurance checks and disappear,” Badger said.
Johnson knows her money and the roofer are gone. But before the next storm, she said she hopes people like her are protected.
“Who did I have to turn to? No one,” Johnson said.
Rep. Capriglione says he plans on filing the bill soon.


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## mtlogcabin (Jan 29, 2019)

Why do people pay in advance for a contractor to start work?


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## JCraver (Jan 29, 2019)

It is incumbent upon you, as a consumer, to spend your money wisely.  Part of that should be checking out the people you hire to work on your home.

And why are there still people out there who give contractors all (or even most) of the money up front for any job?

This is an education problem.  When in school children should be taught how to function in the grown-up world - how to change a tire, how to make a meal, how to pay bills and balance a checkbook, how to structure and read a basic contract, and how to hire a trade/mechanic/etc.  Instead, we're teaching funny math that no one understands and sending them to college to get degrees in basket weaving.

A license for a roofer isn't going to fix anything.


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## steveray (Jan 29, 2019)

Why do people pay in advance for a contractor to start work?

Because that is sadly how it works these days....


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## mark handler (Jan 29, 2019)

JCraver said:


> It is incumbent upon you, as a consumer, to spend your money wisely.  Part of that should be checking out the people you hire to work on your home.
> 
> And why are there still people out there who give contractors all (or even most) of the money up front for any job?
> 
> ...


People are stupid
And, counter to your statement, requiring licensed individuals reduces fraud. We have a code enforcement team that stops work without permits and notifies the state




*CSLB Cites Sixteen Workers for Illegal Contracting in Los Angeles County *

_To avoid financial risks, property owners should always "Check a License" or use CSLB's "Find My Licensed Contractor" tools _

*SACRAMENTO* – On January 16-17, the Contractors State License Board (CSLB) went undercover in the Sunland area to catch and cite alleged unlicensed contractors for placing illegally high bids on home improvement work.

CSLB's Statewide Investigative Fraud Team (SWIFT) partnered with the Los Angeles City Attorney's office and the Los Angeles Police Department and went undercover posing as the property owner of a four-unit apartment building near the Angles National Golf Club.

Investigators contacted suspected unlicensed contractors based on their online and business card advertisements. Sixteen suspects came to the building at scheduled times to bid on general building services, fencing, painting, pouring concrete, flooring, landscaping, and tree maintenance.

Of the group, one person gave a high bid of $14,000 for tree removal, stump grinding, and pouring concrete; the lowest bid was just over $1,300 to install new flooring in the units. All suspects were found to be violating state contracting law by placing bids well over the legal threshold for contracting without a license.

In California, it's illegal for an unlicensed person to perform any contracting work on a project valued at $500 or more in combined labor and material costs. As a result, the suspects could now face a misdemeanor charge of contracting without a license (Business and Professions Code (BPC) §7028(b)). First-conviction penalties include up to six months in jail and/or up to $5,000 in fines.

"There's no telling if someone who is unlicensed has the skills, insurance, or trade knowledge to do the work and to do it right," said David Fogt, CSLB Registrar. "By using CSLB's free online tools like Find My Licensed Contractor or Check a License, homeowners can find a licensed contractor in their area and avoid the headache of hiring someone who could potentially take advantage of them."

The sixteen suspects could face an additional misdemeanor charge for illegal advertising. Licensed contractors must display their license number in all advertisements and unlicensed contractors must state in all ads that they do not have a license (BPC §7027.1). The penalty for violating the advertising rules for unlicensed contractors is a fine of $700 to $1,000.

All suspects were ordered to appear in court at the Clara Shortridge Folz Criminal Center, 210 West Temple Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012.

*NOTE: All suspects are presumed innocent until their case is resolved.*


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## JCraver (Jan 29, 2019)

mark handler said:


> "There's *no telling* if someone who is unlicensed has the skills, insurance, or trade knowledge to do the work and to do it right," said David Fogt, CSLB Registrar. "By using CSLB's free online tools like Find My Licensed Contractor or Check a License, homeowners can find a licensed contractor in their area and avoid the headache of hiring someone who could *potentially* take advantage of them."



Feelings.  That law is all about feelings.  You can't legislate those.

People take advantage of people, no doubt.  But if you get taken advantage of because you're dumb enough to give anybody their full bid amount before they complete any work, well then, maybe that's a lesson you needed to learn.  It's definitely not a reason to punish the 99% of contractors who don't do that kind of crap.


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## mark handler (Jan 29, 2019)

JCraver said:


> Feelings.  That law is all about feelings.  You can't legislate those.
> 
> People take advantage of people, no doubt.  But if you get taken advantage of because you're dumb enough to give anybody their full bid amount before they complete any work, well then, maybe that's a lesson you needed to learn.  It's definitely not a reason to punish the 99% of contractors who don't do that kind of crap.


"Feelings"???
We check them out.


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## mtlogcabin (Jan 29, 2019)

mark handler said:


> People are stupid


You can't fix stupid
Should certain trades be licensed to proof competency and proof of insurance? Sure, will it deter the ripoff people? Most will just tell the homeowner to pull the permit to save them money and the contractor time.
One of the best things government can do after a natural disaster is a heavy public awareness campaign warning homeowners of the deceptive practices of "contractors" used during this time to scam people.
 Insurance company's could take a more proactive approach by putting the money in a local bank's escrow account of the homeowners choice that would oversee the draws required to do the repairs.


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## mark handler (Jan 30, 2019)




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## rktect 1 (Jan 30, 2019)

steveray said:


> Why do people pay in advance for a contractor to start work?
> 
> Because that is sadly how it works these days....


Probably did not want to be thought of as a racist.


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## Rick18071 (Jan 30, 2019)

PA does not require contractors to have license, but some local jurisdictions do. 

But to help home owners from being ripped off anyone that does home repairs are required to be registered with the state, carry insurance and comply with a few rules in dealing with consumers. 

This is only for home repairs not for commercial and not required to build a new house or addition.


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## Pcinspector1 (Jan 30, 2019)

mark handler said:


> Investigators contacted suspected unlicensed contractors based on their online and business card advertisements. Sixteen suspects came to the building at scheduled times to bid on general building services, fencing, painting, pouring concrete, flooring, landscaping, and tree maintenance.


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## Pcinspector1 (Jan 30, 2019)

Title:* This is why we require permits*
Sounds more like "Business License" enforcement? And I think when your team calls them, your baiting them. 

*2012 IBC-105.2 Work exempt from permit*
2. Fences not over 7-ft high
7. Painting, flooring
6. Driveways not over 30-inches
Landscaping and tree maintenance? No permit required that I'm aware of?

Is there a permit for erecting a swing set or are those illegal acts?


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## mark handler (Jan 30, 2019)

Pcinspector1 said:


> Title:* This is why we require permits*
> Sounds more like "Business License" enforcement? And I think when your team calls them, your baiting them.
> 
> *2012 IBC-105.2 Work exempt from permit*
> ...


We do require, Back flow devices for Landscaping Irrigation.


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## Mark K (Jan 30, 2019)

In California it is not the role of the building department to enforce the contractor licensing laws.  Building departments have not been given authority to enforce those laws.  This is not to say that there are not problems with contractors.

The reason building departments check contractors is summarized in Morris vs County of Marin.


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## Rick18071 (Feb 1, 2019)

Rick18071 said:


> But to help home owners from being ripped off anyone that does home repairs are required to be registered with the state, carry insurance and comply with a few rules in dealing with consumers.



We cannot enforce this as code officials


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## linnrg (Feb 1, 2019)

Areas hit with big storm damages often have people scrambling to get contractors.  The current news up here has been warning people to vet their contractors before hiring them to fix earthquake damage.


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## steveray (Feb 4, 2019)

Our insurance lobby pushed in taping the plywood seams now....One more inspection I can't do that I am "responsible for"...

(Amd) R905.1.1 Underlayment. Underlayment for asphalt shingles, clay and concrete tile, metal
roof shingles, mineral-surfaced roll roofing, slate and slate-type shingles, wood shingles, wood
shakes and metal roof panels shall conform to the applicable standards listed in this chapter.
Underlayment materials required to comply with ASTM D 226, D 1970, D 4869 and D 6757 shall
bear a label indicating compliance to the standard designation and, if applicable, type
classification indicated in Table R905.1.1(1). A minimum 4-inch-wide (102 mm) strip of selfadhering
polymer-modified bitumen membrane complying with ASTM D 1970, installed in
accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions for the deck material, shall be applied over all
joints in the roof decking. Underlayment shall be applied over the entire roof and over the 4-inchwide
(102 mm) membrane strips and shall be applied in accordance with Table R905.1.1(2).
Underlayment shall be attached in accordance with Table R905.1.1(3).
Exceptions:
1. As an alternative, self-adhering polymer-modified bitumen underlayment complying with
ASTM D 1970 installed in accordance with both the underlayment manufacturer’s and roof
covering manufacturer’s instructions for the deck material, roof ventilation configuration
and climate exposure for the roof covering to be installed, shall be permitted.
2. The 4-inch-wide (102 mm) strips of self-adhering polymer-modified-bitumen membrane
are not required for roofs sheathed with lumber having a nominal width of less than 3 feet
(914 mm).


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