# PA 2015 IRC - Outlet locations



## tbz (Feb 27, 2021)

OK, you are looking at a main living area, 

open concept, the wall on the right is bookcases wall to wall and 80" tall,
in front of the bookcase is a stair fight to the lower level with a glass guard around the opening,
there is one of the European style Round wood stoves going in, though it says future,
Question is about wall outlets, *were I marked out in blue, are floor outlets required? * 
The bookcases are 19'-0" wide
The cove at the top in front of the bookcases is 66" and the return on the glass guard is 44"
The long section of glass guard is 10'-0"
The wood stove area is 48" square


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## e hilton (Feb 27, 2021)

Yes.  Granny is going to put her rocking chair on the back side of the stove, and needs a place to plug in her electric blanket.


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## fatboy (Feb 27, 2021)

I would agree, not so much about granny.

But yes, I believe a receptacle outlet would be required along the glazed guard, obviously a floor mounted type. 

If I had a NEC in front of me a would cite an article section, but I don't.


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## tbz (Feb 27, 2021)

That's what I thought, thanks


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## ICE (Feb 27, 2021)

The wood stove and the glass guard might not get along well.

No to the receptacles.


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## fatboy (Feb 27, 2021)

"No to the receptacles."

So, you don't think (3) applies?


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## ICE (Feb 27, 2021)

fatboy said:


> "No to the receptacles."
> 
> So, you don't think (3) applies?
> 
> ...


No.  The glass guard is not a wall space.  Neither is the bookcase.


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## fatboy (Feb 27, 2021)

Agreed on the bookcase.

But "*free-standing* bar-type counters _*or railings*_." ? 

I think that pretty much describes the guard. 

JAR, Chris, opinion? 

Not wanting to argue for arguments sake, I have made this call in the field before, would like to know if I am off-base with it.


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## e hilton (Feb 27, 2021)

ICE said:


> No.  The glass guard is not a wall space.  Neither is the bookcase.


Respectfully disagree, based on my interpretation of the reason for the requirement.  Somebody is going to put an end table there with a lamp, or need to plug in a cell phone charger, or a vacuum cleaner, and you don’t want electrical cords strung across the floor.


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## ICE (Feb 28, 2021)

fatboy said:


> Agreed on the bookcase.
> 
> But "*free-standing* bar-type counters _*or railings*_." ?
> 
> ...


The guard is not a “fixed room divider” ......as is the counter/railing that you refer to.


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## fatboy (Feb 28, 2021)

ICE said:


> The guard is not a “fixed room divider” ......as is the counter/railing that you refer to.


I think it pretty much divides the room from the open stairway.

We've heard from one that is of the same mind as me, let's see what others say.


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## tbz (Feb 28, 2021)

ICE said:


> The wood stove and the glass guard might not get along well.
> 
> No to the receptacles.


ICE - the Wood Stove Wont be an Issue with the glass railing





Very low profile and minimal wall clearances - aprox 20,000 BTU's

Product Manual

they have unique room only units, here is another style.






This unit is about 17,000 BTU's


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## ICE (Mar 1, 2021)

tbz said:


> ICE - the Wood Stove Wont be an Issue with the glass railing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The bed is unmade because the coroner seldom tidies up.


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## chris kennedy (Mar 2, 2021)

It's clear to me the blue high lighted areas are wall space.


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## Rick18071 (Mar 2, 2021)

I say yes. The glass panel is definitely a "railing" and the bookcase is definitely in on or in front of a "wall".


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## tbz (Mar 3, 2021)

OK, so the majority are leaning yes, not an issue, the question is would you call it out on a plan review, rough-in or final?


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## Rick18071 (Mar 3, 2021)

all


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## e hilton (Mar 3, 2021)

Plan review.  Give them the opportunity to amend the plans before the project gets too far.  
“You should have said something sooner, its too late to do it now”.  
“But the approved plans don’t show the outlets, why are you changing your mind now?”


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## steveray (Mar 3, 2021)

If we did a residential electrical plan review we would call it then....But certainly at roughs...


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## rogerpa (Mar 3, 2021)

It doesn't matter if plan review calls it or if the inspector missed it. The permit applicant is responsible for meeting the code.
One (floor) receptacle strategically placed along the guard required.

PA residential code
*R105.4 Validity of Permit*
The issuance or granting of a _permit_ shall not be construed to be a _ permit_ for, or an _approval_ of, any violation of any of the provisions of this code or of any other ordinance of the _jurisdiction_. _Permits_ presuming to give authority to violate or cancel the provisions of this code or other ordinances of the _jurisdiction_ shall not be valid. The issuance of a _permit_ based on _construction documents_ and other data shall not prevent the _building official_ from requiring the correction of errors in the _construction documents_ and other data. The _building official_ is authorized to prevent occupancy or use of a structure where in violation of this code or of any other ordinances of this _jurisdiction_.

*E3901.2.1 Spacing*
Receptacles shall be installed so that no point measured horizontally along the floor line of any wall space is more than 6 feet (1829 mm), from a receptacle outlet. [210.52(A)(1)]

*E3901.2.2 Wall Space*
As used in this section, a wall space *shall include* the following: [210.52(A)(2)] 

Any space that is* 2 feet (610 mm) or more in width, *including space measured around corners, and that is unbroken along the floor line by doorways and similar openings, fireplaces, and fixed cabinets.
The space occupied by fixed panels in exterior walls, excluding sliding panels.
The space created by* fixed room dividers such as railings *and freestanding bar-type counters.
*E3901.2.3 Floor Receptacles*
Receptacle outlets in floors shall not be counted as part of the required number of receptacle outlets *except where located within 18 inches (457 mm) of the wall*. [210.52(A)(3)]


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## e hilton (Mar 3, 2021)

rogerpa said:


> It doesn't matter if plan review calls it or if the inspector missed it. The permit applicant is responsible for meeting the code.


I know that, and i have been the recipient of that bad news more than once.  Even though its correct, it causes bad feelings.


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## tbz (Mar 4, 2021)

Thanks everyone,


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## Teeshot (Mar 4, 2021)

Receptacle is required based on (3). Electrical cords that may be strung along the floor, can take place in nearly any code compliant receptacle location and is not the responsibility of the building department.


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## fatboy (Mar 4, 2021)

Teeshot said:


> Receptacle is required based on (3). Electrical cords that may be strung along the floor, can take place in nearly any code compliant receptacle location and is not the responsibility of the building department.


Maybe it is just me, but I am confused about what you are trying to say with that reply.  ????


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## Teeshot (Mar 8, 2021)

fatboy said:


> Maybe it is just me, but I am confused about what you are trying to say with that reply.  ????


I was just adding my .02 regarding the comment made by hilton regarding cords along the floor.


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## e hilton (Mar 8, 2021)

Teeshot said:


> I was just adding my .02 regarding the comment made by hilton regarding cords along the floor.


2 cents?   Hey ... if you can’t add at least a nickle, don’t bother.


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## redeyedfly (Mar 11, 2021)

Teeshot said:


> I was just adding my .02 regarding the comment made by hilton regarding cords along the floor.


I think he is referring to the reasoning behind the 6' code requirement.  6' is not a random number, it is consistent with typical cord lengths on UL appliances, e.g. lamp cords.  The code is attempting to avoid extension cords and cords run across areas you would normally walk.


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## e hilton (Mar 12, 2021)

I agree.   I was being sarcastic ... 2 cents is so passe ... surely inflation has run it up by now.


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## Pcinspector1 (Mar 12, 2021)

tbz, I would agree that receptacles would be required. I believe E3901.2.2 requires receptacle(s) along the *railing*.


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