# Can I force the landlord install a RAMP in front of the building (Brooklyn, NY)



## Mystiky2021 (Oct 25, 2021)

I am writing here as I know there are many experts here.

My mom is not wheel-chair bound, but she has a very hard time with her walker entering her building, which is a 6-story private apartment building located nearby to Maimonides Hospital, located in Boro Park, Brooklyn.   There are approximately 70 apartments in the building and it is rent stabilized.

I am attaching three photos to show how "narrow" the current concrete platform is.  Please go here to see them:

https://imageshack.com/a/1g4w7/1

The exact measurements are:

Concrete Platform (in front of the outside doors) is 80 inches long and only 19.8 inches wide.  The standard walker is 24 inches long, meaning that there is not enough space for the walker to complete be flat on it.  So she has to somehow to push the door far enough, and she does not have the strength to do it.

The doors are each 40 inches wide, but only the right side opens to the inside.  Once inside, there is another same set of doors, of which the right side one needs to be opened with a security key.  There is ample space to operate in front of the second (internal door), as there is about 5 feet between them.

There is NO ramp anywhere to enter the building.

After seeing the photos and reading the above, can someone please advise me if a either 1) a ramp extension can be built to help ease the situation OR 2) the current Concrete Platform has be extended to le say 30 inches (at least).

Any and all opinions are very much appreciated.


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## north star (Oct 25, 2021)

*$ ~ $ ~ $*
*
Mystiky2021,

Welcome to The Building Codes Forum !

Yes, the existing concrete step could be altered to
provide a ramp..........Who do you believe should
pay for the alteration ?*

*IMO, ...you "could" certainly ask the bldg. owner to
alter it  [  i.e. -  ask in writing  ]..........Does the City
of Brooklyn provide any type of ADA enforcement
or assistance ?

What legal rights, if any, are there for a "Rent
Stabilized Property" ?*

*Is it possible for you to find another "more user friendly"
place for your mom to live ?*

*$ ~ $ ~ $*


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## Mystiky2021 (Oct 26, 2021)

north star said:


> *$ ~ $ ~ $*
> 
> *Mystiky2021,
> 
> ...



Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I would hope that the DOB would require the apartment building landlord to implement these changes.   My mom has lived there for 40+ years and moving is not an option.  There are plenty of other older folks who live there.

This is exactly why I wrote in this forum to find out if there are ADA-mandated requirements that I can use to make it happen.  I have seen a few links out there like:



			https://www.landlordsny.com/blog/does-landlord-have-to-install-a-ramp-for-a-tenant-s-disabled-guest
		










						Installing an ADA-Compliant Ramp
					

An article detailing what goes into building wheelchair ramps that comply with the American with Disabilities Act.




					randpc.com
				




Again, all help is appreciated.


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## e hilton (Oct 26, 2021)

You may have to get a lawyer involved to threaten a civil lawsuit to get the LL to take action.  And expect the LL to fight back.  You could get the newspapers and tv stations involved, but i suspect in nyc nobody will care.


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## steveray (Oct 26, 2021)

Find out who the enforcer is in NY or call the DOJ....


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## Beniah Naylor (Oct 26, 2021)

An apartment building, maybe the Fair Housing Act applies?


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## Mystiky2021 (Oct 26, 2021)

I was hoping that there is an architect here who can tell me if this concrete step is too narrow by the code of NY City.  If that is the case (meaning has to be a minimum of let say 32 inches) then I can go directly to the landlord and tell him "Sir, either fix it (expand it), or I am going to the Department of Buildings and filing a complaint.

That's the kind of info I am looking for.  And if you tell me, please quote the law page number, or code.  THANK YOU!


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## redeyedfly (Oct 26, 2021)

ADA does not apply to a private apartment building.  The building is only required to meet the code at the time it was built or a particular element modified; very unlikely to help you in this case.  The Fair Housing act does apply and you can force the landlord to make a reasonable accommodation (a ramp to the entrance would certainly qualify) but your mother would have to pay for the ramp.


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 26, 2021)

Then again if your mother falls because of the narrow landing she may own the building when she is done suing the owner.
I think ADA would apply to the common areas of the apartment building


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## redeyedfly (Oct 26, 2021)

mtlogcabin said:


> Then again if your mother falls because of the narrow landing she may own the building when she is done suing the owner.
> I think ADA would apply to the common areas of the apartment building


You may think that ADA applies, but it doesn't unless they are for public accommodation, which means used by people who are not residents or guests of residents.


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 26, 2021)

redeyedfly said:


> which means used by people who are not residents or guests of residents.


So the front entrance to a 70 unit apartment building will never have a guest in any apartment or a delivery person ever deliver goods or food. 
Just because it has a secured entrance does not determine a guest or other non-resident will not enter the building


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## redeyedfly (Oct 26, 2021)

mtlogcabin said:


> So the front entrance to a 70 unit apartment building will never have a guest in any apartment or a delivery person ever deliver goods or food.
> Just because it has a secured entrance does not determine a guest or other non-resident will not enter the building


I'm sorry that you don't understand the scope of the ADA but no, none of the things you listed would trigger the ADA for an apartment building.  Delivery people are guests of the residents.  
ADA typically only applies to apartments which have a leasing office (and only the office itself and the route leading to it) or facilities (such as a banquet room) which can be rented by non-residents.  We have the FHA that covers apartment buildings, they are not the same thing.


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## Paul Sweet (Oct 26, 2021)

2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design section 36.403 Alterations: Path of Travel requires alterations made after Jan. 26, 1992 to include spending up to 20% of the alteration cost to make the path of travel accessible.  However, I don't see where it requires alterations to be made specifically for accessibility.

The Fair Housing Amendments only apply to multi-family housing built for first occupancy after March 13, 1991.


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## redeyedfly (Oct 26, 2021)

Paul Sweet said:


> 2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design section 36.403 Alterations: Path of Travel requires alterations made after Jan. 26, 1992 to include spending up to 20% of the alteration cost to make the path of travel accessible.  However, I don't see where it requires alterations to be made specifically for accessiblity.
> 
> The Fair Housing Amendments only apply to multifamily housing built for first occupancy after March 13, 1991.


Reasonable accommodations under FHA apply to all multifamily housing no matter when it was built.


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## Mystiky2021 (Oct 26, 2021)

Thank you again everyone on the input.  I guess I will write the landlord an email, letting him know of the situation and if my mom falls again (she has twice, dealing with this problem but luckily, she did not get hurt), he will be on the hook for a lawsuit.


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## north star (Oct 27, 2021)

*@ ~ @ ~ @*
*
Mystiky2021,

Thank you for coming to this Forum for your issue \
questions.

We want to help you, and others, but we are limited
on our "first hand knowledge" of all the facts and
conditions.

The LL may or may not respond to such an e-mail.
I would suppose "most likely not" !........They would
not want to formally acknowledge the conditions
present  [  i.e. - claimed ignorance  ].

Are you willing to pay for the alterations to the door
landing ?.....What about other non-ADA compliant
conditions [  i.e. - correct door width, ...correct door
hardware, ...exterior & interior lighting amounts,
...correct door opening psi amount, ...Signage, etc.  ] ?

As a recommendation, you may want to write to the
Department of Justice, or find a local ADA Compliance
organization that can provide you with the legalities
of what you are wanting to get accomplished.

May I also request that you please come back on
here to let us know how things turn out ?    
*
*@ ~ @ ~ @*


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## Pcinspector1 (Oct 27, 2021)

I'm guessing here, I suspect that the building owner cannot raise the rent when the lease is up to make upgrades becuse of the rent stabalization agreement? So a entrance upgrade would be out of pocket for the LL? 

Does the rent stablization agreement require a private apartment building meet ADA?

I was on the impression that aprtment buildings have to have a %  of apartment to meet ADA. At that point access to the building would be required to be ADA compliant. 

Qusetion, is there other entrances that meet the ADA access requirement into the building or is this a prefered exit by the tenent?


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## redeyedfly (Oct 27, 2021)

It's hard for me to believe that a forum dedicated to building codes does not understand at all where the ADA applies.


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 27, 2021)

Perhaps you can provide the language from the ADA that would clarify this and thus educate us on this board since that is one of the main purposes of this forum is to gain knowledge and make corrections where we are wrong in our application of the codes to specific facilities.
I admit I reference ADA when I should be stating FHA or Hud or ANSI


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## redeyedfly (Oct 27, 2021)

mtlogcabin said:


> Perhaps you can provide the language from the ADA that would clarify this and thus educate us on this board since that is one of the main purposes of this forum is to gain knowledge and make corrections where we are wrong in our application of the codes to specific facilities.
> I admit I reference ADA when I should be stating FHA or Hud or ANSI


Title III Public Accommodations and Commercial Facilities
§ 36.102 Application. (a) General. This part applies to any – (1) Public accommodation; (2) Commercial facility; or (3) Private entity that offers examinations or courses related to applications, licensing, certification, or credentialing for secondary or postsecondary education, professional, or trade purposes. (b) Public accommodations. (1) The requirements of this part applicable to public accommodations are set forth in subparts B, C, and D of this part. (2) The requirements of subparts B and C of this part obligate a public accommodation only with respect to the operations of a place of public accommodation. (3) The requirements of subpart D of this part obligate a public accommodation only with respect to – (i) A facility used as, or designed or constructed for use as, a place of public accommodation; or (ii) A facility used as, or designed and constructed for use as, a commercial facility. (c) Commercial facilities. The requirements of this part applicable to commercial facilities are set forth in subpart D of this part. (d) Examinations and courses. The requirements of this part applicable to private entities that offer examinations or courses as specified in paragraph (a) of this section are set forth in § 36.309. (e) Exemptions and exclusions. This part does not apply to any private club (except to the extent that the facilities of the private club are made available to customers or patrons of a place of public accommodation), or to any religious entity or public entity.

Not apartments.


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## Pcinspector1 (Oct 27, 2021)

redeyedfly said:


> Public Accommodations and Commercial Facilities


Does this apartment qualify as public accommodations or commercial facility?


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## Paul Sweet (Oct 27, 2021)

"Reasonable accommodations under FHA apply to all multifamily housing no matter when it was built."

What section of FHA says this?  I'm not challenging you, but I'm not as familiar with FHA as I am with ADA.


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## redeyedfly (Oct 27, 2021)

Pcinspector1 said:


> Does this apartment qualify as public accommodations or commercial faclity?


No.

It may have requirements to comply with ADA because of governmental funding sources, but typical private apartment buildings are not public accommodations.


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## redeyedfly (Oct 27, 2021)

Paul Sweet said:


> "Reasonable accommodations under FHA apply to all multifamily housing no matter when it was built."
> 
> What section of FHA says this?  I'm not challenging you, but I'm not as familiar with FHA as I am with ADA.


All of the Act.  The design and construction requirements apply to new construction started after 1991 but the rest of it applies to nearly all housing (they have enumerated exceptions).


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## ICE (Oct 27, 2021)

Can I force the landlord install a RAMP in front of the building​
In reading the OPs' posts I see a pugnacious attitude.  It started with the title. 

An entity that has the wherewithal to own a seventy unit apartment building will not be easy to force to do anything.

Given that the mother has fallen twice pretty much wipes away any prospect of filing a lawsuit.

Threatening to involve the government is a cheap shot that might cost the mother a great deal.

The idea that one can rent an apartment and then force the landlord to modify the entrance is ridiculous.  If you want a different entrance, rent a different apartment.


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## classicT (Oct 27, 2021)

redeyedfly said:


> It's hard for me to believe that a forum dedicated to building codes does not understand at all where the ADA applies.


This is why I am adamant that I do not do ADA.

In WA, and in most AHJ outside of CA, TX, and few other states, the IBC will reference the ICC A117.1 standard. This is what AHJ should enforce. IBC Ch. 11 and A117.1 standard, as a safe haven document for the ADA, will typically meet or exceed the requirements from the ADA.

The discussion herein is a classic example. Per redeyedfly, the ADA may not apply to an apartment building. However, per IBC Section 1107.6.2.2, there are definitive requirements for accessible features to be provided in apartment buildings.

So, in conclusion, when speaking about accessibility, it is a fundamental need to understand which code is at play, and to call it by the proper reference. Not all accessibility requirements are "ADA". Some come from FHA or other federal standards. But in the end, unless your state directs enforcement of these federal standards, the AHJ should stick to the building codes adopted (i.e. typically the IBC and ICC A117.1 standard).


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## redeyedfly (Oct 27, 2021)

classicT said:


> This is why I am adamant that I do not do ADA.
> 
> In WA, and in most AHJ outside of CA, TX, and few other states, the IBC will reference the ICC A117.1 standard. This is what AHJ should enforce. IBC Ch. 11 and A117.1 standard, as a safe haven document for the ADA, will typically meet or exceed the requirements from the ADA.
> 
> ...


Amen.

One caveat that the FHA is a national requirement.  You must use the more restrictive of FHA or the local accessibility code in apartments nationwide.  But the local AHJ is not the enforcement official, FHA is enforced by the DOJ.


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## classicT (Oct 27, 2021)

redeyedfly said:


> Amen.
> 
> One caveat that the FHA is a national requirement.  You must use the more restrictive of FHA or the local accessibility code in apartments nationwide.  But the local AHJ is not the enforcement official, FHA is enforced by the DOJ.


Agreed. But I do believe the DOJ has endorsed the last several cycles of the IBC (and A117.1 by proxy) as a safe haven document for the FHA.


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## steveray (Oct 27, 2021)

Here are the three most common misconceptions regarding accessibility in apartment housing settings.

There must be ADA apartment units​The ADA applies only to public accommodations, such as hotel rooms, restaurants and convention centers. Therefore, the ADA applies to the public spaces of apartment communities (leasing offices, parking areas), but it does not cover the actual units.

Section 504 applies to all government-subsidized properties​The design requirements of Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 went into effect for newly constructed Rural Development properties in 1982 and for HUD properties in 1988. Properties built before these dates do not have to have 5 percent of units fully accessible and 2 percent of units compliant for the hearing and visually impaired. If these older apartment communities are substantially rehabilitated, however, they are encouraged to meet those percentages.

In addition, common areas for these older properties do not need to be fully accessible; however, fair housing laws require owners to make reasonable modifications if requested by a resident.

Adaptable units that are not currently accessible are not in compliance with the FHAA​The Fair Housing Amendments Act of 1988 (FHAA) requires that buildings built after March 13, 1991, have seven specific design features that allow an owner to quickly adapt a unit if someone with a physical disability needs accessible features. For these buildings, all ground-floor units must be adaptable, all units in elevator buildings must be adaptable and all common areas must be completely accessible. If these units are adaptable—even if they are not currently accessible—then the property is in compliance with the FHAA.


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## ADAguy (Nov 5, 2021)

redeyedfly said:


> ADA does not apply to a private apartment building.  The building is only required to meet the code at the time it was built or a particular element modified; very unlikely to help you in this case.  The Fair Housing act does apply and you can force the landlord to make a reasonable accommodation (a ramp to the entrance would certainly qualify) but your mother would have to pay for the ramp.


He knows of what he has written. File your complaint with local HUD office.


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## Jean Tessmer-HI (Jan 3, 2022)

Mystiky2021 said:


> I am writing here as I know there are many experts here.
> 
> My mom is not wheel-chair bound, but she has a very hard time with her walker entering her building, which is a 6-story private apartment building located nearby to Maimonides Hospital, located in Boro Park, Brooklyn.   There are approximately 70 apartments in the building and it is rent stabilized.
> 
> ...


You can request a reasonable accommodation under the fair housing act.  The landlord is required by law to comply with a reasonable accommodation request regardless of the status of the housing be it private, public housing, apartments, multifiamily, condominiums, townhouses, they are all covered by this DOJ and HUD.  You may also have a HUD funded civil rights group in your county and you can file the complaint with them at no charge.   I have worked on a number of these cases including a woman over 90 years old whole could no longer use the steps.  If they deny you then they will end up paying for the ramp.  Usually the cost is borne by the requestor. However, you are not required to remove and restore a publicly used accommodation built outside.

The Department of Justice (“DOJ”) and the Department of Housing and Urban Development (“HUD”) are jointly responsible for enforcing the federal Fair Housing Act1 (the “Act”), which* prohibits discrimination in housing on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, familial status, and disability*.2 One type of disability discrimination prohibited by the Act is a refusal to permit, at the expense of the person with a disability, reasonable modifications of existing premises occupied or to be occupied by such person if such modifications may be necessary to afford such person full enjoyment of the premises.3 HUD and DOJ frequently respond to complaints alleging that housing providers have violated the Act by refusing reasonable modifications to persons with disabilities. This Statement provides technical assistance regarding the rights and obligations of persons with disabilities and housing providers under the Act relating to reasonable modifications.  Here is the link - https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/huddojstatement.pdf


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## No Soup for you (Jan 4, 2022)

I do not recall seeing anywhere that the original poster was "willing to pay" for any accommodations.

Looks to me like the OP is looking for the owner to foot the bill.

If your mom is having that hard of a time and it is that much of a concern to the OP then (if it were me) mom would be moving in w/me or getting a new place.

The landlord has no "legal" obligation here that I see.


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## Jean Tessmer-HI (Jan 4, 2022)

He did not say he was willing to pay and by the request I don't know either way.  Wanted to make sure he realized he would have to execute and pay for the accommodation.  Adding too that, the landlord is required by law to allow the requested accommodation.


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## Jean Tessmer-HI (Jan 4, 2022)

redeyedfly said:


> It's hard for me to believe that a forum dedicated to building codes does not understand at all where the ADA applies.


Thank you.


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