# When is a turnaround NOT needed?  OK to back out?



## Yikes (Jun 28, 2018)

I was looking at a city standard detail for an accessible 2-bin exterior trash enclosure (CMU walls, and a 3' wide pedestrian opening.  Once inside, it has a 4' wide pathway adjacent to the bins.  There is no turnaround space, so ostensibly a wheelchair user must roll backwards for about 12 feet to get out of the enclosure.  Does this route meet ADA?

Another person said this dead end is technically an "alcove", and alcoves can't be longer than 48" without providing a turnaround.  I can't find that in the code. 

****
Here's the only times in the CBC/ADA that I find a turnaround is required - - tell me if I'm wrong:

·        11B-403.5.3 for passing spaces every 200' maximum on a POT.

·        T11B-407.4.1 accessible elevator cabs

·        11B-603.2.1 inside a toilet room

·        11B-612.3 inside a sauna or steam room

·        11B-803.2 dressing, fitting or locker rooms

·        11B-805.4.3 medical exam, diagnostic and treatment rooms

·        11B-806.2.6 transient lodging guest rooms

·        11B-808.2 courtroom areas

·        11B-809.2 all rooms inside an accessible dwelling unit

·        11B-1002.3 amusement ride loading and unloading areas

·        11B-1005.1 fishing piers and platforms

·        11B-1008.2.1 play areas with a route longer than 30 feet, and 44" wide

·        11B-1008.4.1 adjacent to swings and play components


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## ADAguy (Jul 3, 2018)

Point? Is a trash enclosure to be seen as an employee work station?
A trash enclosure should be accessible to and useable by those with disabilities and can be accessed by means other than as you describe. How would you lift objects over the rim of bins?


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## mark handler (Jul 3, 2018)

https://www.riversideca.gov/planning/pdf/trash-enclosures.pdf


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## ADAguy (Jul 3, 2018)

"Spot on Mark"!


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## JPohling (Jul 3, 2018)

That ramp isn't getting you up much..............


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## mark handler (Jul 3, 2018)

JPohling said:


> That ramp isn't getting you up much..............


Just high enough to get the trash In the bin


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## ADAguy (Jul 5, 2018)

There is an assumption that whoever uses the ramp can tip the trash into the bin.


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## MtnArch (Jul 7, 2018)

It appears that the ramp starts at the gate - shouldn't there be a flat landing on the inside of the gate before the ramp?  It also appears that this assumes that the lift lids on the trash bins are always pointed towards the rear/side where the accessible space is.  Are the solid waste companies training their drivers to make sure that they are put back in the proper way?  Not trying to start an argument, just feel that there are more issues that should be looked at along with this.


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## ADAguy (Jul 9, 2018)

You are correct in your analysis, dimensions are just the beginning, operations are also part of the equation.


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## Yikes (Jul 10, 2018)

In the Riverside link Mark provided, NONE of the plans show a 5' turning circle or T-turn in the trash enclosure area.
In other words, a person in a wheelchair will need to roll in, dump the trash, then back up to get out.  Does this meet ADA and CBC?  Or must a turnaround be provided?

Thank you for the comments about trash bin height etc., but my question is specifically addressing turnaround issues.


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## ADAguy (Jul 10, 2018)

Nice catch, what say you Mark?


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