# Condominium without common roof access to A/C units is a problem



## tww (Sep 14, 2015)

I am a board member of a condominium unit owners association. The 4-story property was built in Virginia in 2006. All of the air conditioner units are on the roof and the building has no common roof access---only access through decks on about 1/3 of the privately owned units. UOA board members with balconies have so far been kind enough to give A/C technicians access to the roof, however this year the need for access has become frequent and spontaneous enough that the lack of common roof access is now a real problem.

I have spoken with the city's building inspector who tells me that the building meets code because it has roof access one way or another, and that common access isn't required by the code. Is he correct? Does Virginia condominium law address this at all?


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## steveray (Sep 14, 2015)

From the 2006 IMC....and it reads very similar in earlier editions....

306.5 Equipment and appliances on roofs or elevated structures.

Where equipment and appliances requiring access are installed on roofs or elevated structures at a height exceeding 16 feet (4877 mm), such access shall be provided by a permanent approved means of access, the extent of which shall be from grade or floor level to the equipment and appliances’ level service space. Such access shall not require climbing over obstructions greater than 30 inches (762 mm) high or walking on roofs having a slope greater than 4 units vertical in 12 units horizontal (33-percent slope).


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## tww (Sep 14, 2015)

Access from one (and only one) of the private unit's deck to the A/C units probably doesn't exceed the 30 inch climb but more than a foot or two. I could see where a building inspector might have let them get away with that...at the time the building was given it's occupancy permit the builder still owned and occupied that particular unit. ... I wonder what our recourse is this many years later?


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## mtlogcabin (Sep 14, 2015)

What is the slope of the roof?

* 1009.16 Stairway to roof.*

*In buildings **four or more stories above grade plane**, one stairway shall extend to the roof surface, **unless the roof has a slope steeper than four units vertical in 12 units horizonta**l (33-percent slope). In buildings without an occupied roof, access to the roof from the top story shall be permitted to be by an alternating tread device.*

* 1009.16.1  Roof access.*

*Where a stairway is provided to a roof, access to the roof shall be provided through a penthouse complying with Section 1509.2 of the International Building Code.*

*Exception: In buildings without an occupied roof, access to the roof shall be permitted to be a roof hatch or trap door not less than 16 square feet (1.5 m2) in area and having a minimum dimension of 2 feet (610 mm).*


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## tww (Sep 14, 2015)

Otherwise does "obstructions greater than 30 inches" include locked privately owned front doors?


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## tww (Sep 14, 2015)

The roof is 3 separate flat areas, one highest flat area, and another flat area about 9 feet lower on two sides of the building, where decks line one of those and one deck + the A/C units line the other.


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## cda (Sep 14, 2015)

Have the a/c people buy a longer ladder!!!!!

http://www.northsidetoolrental.com/ladders/extension-ladders/60-ft-aluminum/


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## cda (Sep 14, 2015)

wonder what building code it was built under


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## tww (Sep 14, 2015)

So far the HVAC companies have been unwilling to bring and/or climb a 30 foot ladder. ... We are looking at a 30 foot portable lift which would reach the roof from the building from the front. The building is twice as high from the back and inaccessible from the sides where there are other buildings. The management company has liability concerns about a ladder/lift and I would like to know if we might be able to have the builder pay for it.


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## mark handler (Sep 14, 2015)

As a board member you may want to do you due diligence and find out the cost of providing a permanent roof access.

Who is responsible if some one or something were injured or damaged climbing over the deck or balcony to acess the equipment?

Talk with the homeowners liability insurer. .....


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## cda (Sep 14, 2015)

it sounds like it met code when it was built????


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## mark handler (Sep 14, 2015)

cda said:
			
		

> it sounds like it met code when it was built????


Does not make it save, nor does it remove liability, there is a known issue.


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## tww (Sep 14, 2015)

The current building inspector has told me that it met code when it was built because it has roof access through a private unit--that the code doesn't say the access has to be in the common area. However whether or not that is an accurate interpretation of the code is one of my questions.

We are looking into options for permanent roof access. Technicians have told us they would not climb a ladder (even caged) if it were on the back of the building, which is a full 4 stories tall. A ladder on the front probably would not be permitted by City façade rules (although I haven't confirmed that). We could not install interior access without penetrating a private unit.


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## cda (Sep 14, 2015)

Bucket truck

Any other condos around you with similar set up?

So has the place been re roofed? If so how did they get up there


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## RLGA (Sep 14, 2015)

Is there a janitorial, storage, or other utility space on the 4th story that you can install a roof hatch and a permanent ladder?  You might be able to do it in one of the stairways, too.


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## north star (Sep 14, 2015)

*& ~ & ~ &*





tww,

As others have offered, ...are you absolutely sure that there

are no interior spaces [ i.e. - non-tenant spaces ] that can be

altered to provide a permanent roof access ?

If not, then for an exterior access, ...there are motorized "man

lifts" that can reach that height.......Also, there are cranes.

If neither of those options are appealing, ...what about having

an elevator system constructed for the roof access.....Either

one that attaches to the building, or one that is self supported.

[  ThyssenKrupp elevator systems is one that comes to mind ]

Something similar to the types of elevators used on construction

sites for high rise projects.



*& ~ & ~ &*


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## Msradell (Sep 14, 2015)

north star said:
			
		

> *& ~ & ~ &*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


While lifts like you are talking about here would certainly work they are extremely expensive and something that wouldn't make much sense for an area that only needs to be accessed a few times a year.  They also are not very aesthetically pleasing to be left permanently and if they weren't permanent you couldn't do emergency repairs and the equipment.


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## north star (Sep 15, 2015)

*% + %*

Msradell,

I do not disagree that some type of exterior elevator system, or

even a non-MOE stairway system would be expensive, ...just

throwing options out there.

**tww** seems to be very limited on some type of interior access

in his application........I would be looking at the motorized "man lifts"

in the short term, until a permanent solution can be provided.

Also, ...I would most certainly NOT want to attempt navigating a

30+ ft. ladder either !



*% + %*


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## tww (Sep 15, 2015)

We have had the roof re-sealed; they brought the material up with a crane. There is also roof access through 1/3 of the private units' decks, which is fine for pre-scheduled work. It is the spontaneous calls that board members get from technicians who show up wanting to know where our roof access is that is driving us to address the issue. There is an elevator to the 3rd floor; the 4th floor is 100% occupied by lofts belonging to 3rd floor units which they access by stairs in those units. There is nowhere on the 4th floor that we can add a roof access door without penetrating a private unit.

This lift would probably work to access the roof from the sidewalk on the front of the building, and appears to retail for about $13,500.

http://www.ballymore.com/products/lifts/mobile-vertical-lift

I am researching with our insurance provider about any liability concerns, with the two or three A/C vendors who have been coming to provide service, and seeking legal advice on whether or not we would have any basis to ask the builder to contribute to its cost.


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## cda (Sep 15, 2015)

tww said:
			
		

> We have had the roof re-sealed; they brought the material up with a crane. There is also roof access through 1/3 of the private units' decks, which is fine for pre-scheduled work. It is the spontaneous calls that board members get from technicians who show up wanting to know where our roof access is that is driving us to address the issue. There is an elevator to the 3rd floor; the 4th floor is 100% occupied by lofts belonging to 3rd floor units which they access by stairs in those units. There is nowhere on the 4th floor that we can add a roof access door without penetrating a private unit.This lift would probably work to access the roof from the sidewalk on the front of the building, and appears to retail for about $13,500.
> 
> http://www.ballymore.com/products/lifts/mobile-vertical-lift
> 
> I am researching with our insurance provider about any liability concerns, with the two or three A/C vendors who have been coming to provide service, and seeking legal advice on whether or not we would have any basis to ask the builder to contribute to its cost.


Only an Internet attorney, but

Building was built to code

Builder should not have any concern about having to pay now.

Let all tenants / owners know about the access problem and try to give as much advance notice as possible for a/c work.

See if the tenants that have patio/ roof access would trust someone with a key if emergency roof access is needed .

Or

Move the units to ground level


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## tww (Sep 15, 2015)

cda said:
			
		

> Only an Internet attorney, butBuilding was built to code
> 
> Builder should not have any concern about having to pay now.
> 
> ...


Moving the A/C units to ground level would not be an option.

Most of the owners know about the access problem but when their A/C fails they want it serviced. I have often wondered \what happens if the unit owners with roof access refused to provide access. I have personally left my office to let technicians in many times, and have started providing key access to certain techs. However after having done this on average more than once a week this summer, there needs to be a permanent solution.


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## cda (Sep 15, 2015)

Hire the a/c comapnies run by fireman.

They like to climb ladders

Your place can't be the only one where they have high roofs to get on!!!


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## north star (Sep 15, 2015)

*& >*



> " Hire the a/c comapnies run by fireman.They like to climb ladders "


Attempting to navigate a 30+ ft. ladder with a replacement compressor,or a canister of freon & tools, simply won't do !    

*< &*


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## cda (Sep 15, 2015)

Ropes and cranes.

This cannot be the first building witha high roof and no good access.

From the repsonses, options sound like somehow get permanent access,   but it sounds like it is needed in more than one place,

Or provide alternative means ladder/ bucket truck, etc.

Buy the next fourth floor unit that is up for sale, and make roof access through it!!


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