# Regarding building code for apartments built in 1985



## BuildingGuyTx (Sep 12, 2018)

Was it building code in 1985 for a commercial apartment that was built in 1985 to have the following two things:

1. Firewalls from attic floor to attic roof for walk in attics?
2. Functional bathroom ventilation that vents air from bathroom to either attic or outside if no window present?


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## fatboy (Sep 12, 2018)

I would check with your local AHJ and find out what was adopted in 1985, probably was not the 1985 edition of codes.


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## fatboy (Sep 12, 2018)

Welcome!


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## BuildingGuyTx (Sep 12, 2018)

fatboy said:


> I would check with your local AHJ and find out what was adopted in 1985, probably was not the 1985 edition of codes.



Thanks for the welcome

I called the local city bldg inspections and they said the answer would be in the Uniform building codes 1979 edition. They told me I could look this up on Google.

I searched for this document on Google and found it. I see some stuff in there but I am no expert and is a bit confusing to me. So, I am reaching out for assistance. I see something in the 1979.pdf edition regarding "draft stops" on page 207 and 491 but do not know if it is the same thing.

In the same "Uniform building codes 1979 edition, page 86 - section 1205, it looks like a functional (not just cosmetic or not just an air recirculator that passes over a small filter) bathroom ventilation system/fan is required if no windows are present. 

Perhaps I am not reading the code wrong and I am not understanding the section about draft stops. Would an expert or person knowledgeable please clarify. 

1. Are firewalls from attic floor to attic roof for walk in attics required?
2. Is a functional bathroom ventilation system that vents air from bathroom to either attic or outside required if no window present?

Thank you


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## cda (Sep 12, 2018)

Welcome!!!


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## cda (Sep 12, 2018)

Is said apartment , when built, in

Incorporated city limits of a Texas city

Or

County area?? 

May matter


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## cda (Sep 12, 2018)

A draft stop

Is not a rated firewall


It is a slow down wall


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## ADAguy (Sep 12, 2018)

Recirculating fans with filters are allowed in bathrooms with no windows but must not discharge into attics.


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## BuildingGuyTx (Sep 12, 2018)

cda said:


> Is said apartment , when built, in
> 
> Incorporated city limits of a Texas city
> 
> ...



Built in San Antonio Texas within city limits


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## BuildingGuyTx (Sep 12, 2018)

cda said:


> A draft stop
> 
> Is not a rated firewall
> 
> ...



The 1979 code says both draft stop and fire stop (page 207). 

Should the apartment built in 1985 have firestops/firewalls dividing each of the apartments on the top floor. As of right now, one could walk to another apartment via the attic by going through the attic entrance and down someone elses attic entrance.


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## BuildingGuyTx (Sep 12, 2018)

ADAguy said:


> Recirculating fans with filters are allowed in bathrooms with no windows but must not discharge into attics.



On page 86 of the UBC 1979 edition, it says "All bathrooms.... shall be provided with natural ventilation by means of operable exterior openings" and .... "In bathrooms.... a mechanical ventilation system connected directly to the outside, capable of providing five air changes per hour, shall be provided. 

Based on the above and after reading the Uniform Building Code 1979 - 
Is a functional bathroom ventilation system that vents air from the bathroom outside of the bathroom required if no window or any other means of natural or mechanical ventilation is present?

The current bathroom has no windows, no "natural ventilation by means of operable exterior openings" and no "mechanical ventilation system connected directly to the outside". Is it out of code?


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## cda (Sep 12, 2018)

BuildingGuyTx said:


> Built in San Antonio Texas within city limits




Yep they did have a building code, not sure which one, four years, before I worked there.


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## cda (Sep 12, 2018)

BuildingGuyTx said:


> The 1979 code says both draft stop and fire stop (page 207).
> 
> Should the apartment built in 1985 have firestops/firewalls dividing each of the apartments on the top floor. As of right now, one could walk to another apartment via the attic by going through the attic entrance and down someone elses attic entrance.





If built in 85 not sure they were under the 1979


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## cda (Sep 12, 2018)

BuildingGuyTx said:


> On page 86 of the UBC 1979 edition, it says "All bathrooms.... shall be provided with natural ventilation by means of operable exterior openings" and .... "In bathrooms.... a mechanical ventilation system connected directly to the outside, capable of providing five air changes per hour, shall be provided.
> 
> Based on the above and after reading the Uniform Building Code 1979 -
> Is a functional bathroom ventilation system that vents air from the bathroom outside of the bathroom required if no window or any other means of natural or mechanical ventilation is present?
> ...




Sounds like it


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## cda (Sep 12, 2018)

BuildingGuyTx said:


> The 1979 code says both draft stop and fire stop (page 207).
> 
> Should the apartment built in 1985 have firestops/firewalls dividing each of the apartments on the top floor. As of right now, one could walk to another apartment via the attic by going through the attic entrance and down someone elses attic entrance.





Ok draft stop is one thing

Fire stop is another and is not a fire wall


Draft stops normally are required when an attic area exceeds a certain square feet.


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## cda (Sep 12, 2018)

https://www.askthebuilder.com/fire-stop-construction/


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## TheCommish (Sep 12, 2018)

was this area in the corporate  limits at the time it was built? if it was outside of the limit there may not have been a code requirements


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## BuildingGuyTx (Sep 12, 2018)

TheCommish said:


> was this area in the corporate  limits at the time it was built? if it was outside of the limit there may not have been a code requirements



I am unsure what "corporate limits" means.


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## cda (Sep 12, 2018)

BuildingGuyTx said:


> I am unsure what "corporate limits" means.



Inside the City of San Antonio city limits


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## TheCommish (Sep 13, 2018)

BuildingGuyTx said:


> I am unsure what "corporate limits" means.



 as in "Incorporated city limits of a Texas city"

many areas of incorporation expand over time by annexing unincorporated areas that provisory had  no or differ building codes


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## sergoodo (Sep 14, 2018)

There was a Forensic Files episode about this San Antonio apartment building where this guy crawled up in the attic dropped into adjacent apt thru the closet scutlle and killed his neighbor.

Sounds like this building may get fixed.


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## BuildingGuyTx (Sep 18, 2018)

TheCommish said:


> as in "Incorporated city limits of a Texas city"
> 
> many areas of incorporation expand over time by annexing unincorporated areas that provisory had  no or differ building codes



Yes, apartment is within city limits


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## cda (Sep 18, 2018)

Still looking for my book to see what code SA. was under.

Anyway

Why the questions???   Sometimes that helps with answers


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## JBI (Sep 19, 2018)

A 'fire wall' begins at the lowest portion of a building (typically basement slab) and continues to or through the roof deck without interruption - continuous wall, top to bottom. Historically it terminated above the roof deck with a parapet, but by the mid-80's allowances were added to the Codes to allow termination at the roof deck if the roof deck has fire resistance.
Draft stop, as noted earlier, break up large horizontal spaces (like above drop ceilings, or in open web joist floors, or attics) to limit the spread of smoke and toxic fumes horizontally.
Fire stopping and fire blocking are added in walls to limit vertical rise of fire and smoke in a building and to seal off floor and wall cavities to limit fire spread.
Depending on the size, number of apartments and/or construction type one or all may have been required in 1985.
Bathroom ventilation is generally required, as you've already noted. Being from NYS and having a much different climate the rules I'm used to may be different than what Texas and San Antonio have had.


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## Glenn (Sep 20, 2018)

I have a 1979 UBC.  Draftstopping under that code is different than today.  Under the old code attics just had to be divided to areas not greater than 1000 square feet, but unlike today's code, there is no mention of multiple units being under the same 1000 sq feet portion.
I'd be more worried about all these attic accesses in general.  In a multifamily building you really don't have any reason to give each unit an access, especially if its to the same draftstopped area as another.  I'd recommend the minimum amount of accesses and then be sure they are rated the same as the (likely rated) ceiling membrane.  Self closing devices.  Etc.  Attic accesses are notorious locations for fire breach.  Keep the tenants out of there.


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## cda (Nov 30, 2018)

BuildingGuyTx said:


> Was it building code in 1985 for a commercial apartment that was built in 1985 to have the following two things:
> 
> 1. Firewalls from attic floor to attic roof for walk in attics?
> 2. Functional bathroom ventilation that vents air from bathroom to either attic or outside if no window present?




Sorry for the time lag,

So finally dug up what I was looking for.

I want to say May of 1982 San Antonio was under the 1979 UBC'

The next adopted code was the 1985 UBC,,   adopted not sure  maybe 90 or earlier?


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## ADAguy (Nov 30, 2018)

Common attics are a major source of fire spread in apartrnent fires.  Major risk management consideration to separate tenant attics, may reduce fire insurance rate.


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