# Cable rail in Michigan



## Decksbyvets (Mar 18, 2021)

Does anyone know if cable railings are still good to install on decks. Heard that code was going to change not allowing them.


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## Rick18071 (Mar 19, 2021)

Don't know what code you are using to but I know it's OK for the 2015 IRC.


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## steveray (Mar 19, 2021)

Reach out to the local or Glenn here....He's the dexpert.....


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## fatboy (Mar 19, 2021)

There is no prescriptive prohibition in the code.


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## tbz (Mar 19, 2021)

Decksbyvets said:


> Does anyone know if cable railings are still good to install on decks. Heard that code was going to change not allowing them.


I will assume this is for a residential deck, a quick glance at the ICC website has the 2015 IRC adopted, this might be outdated, but there is no wording that I see that would prevent you, other than a local authority adopting additional restrictions.

The only place to truly know is to contact your local building department, in the jurisdiction were the deck will be built.

Here is the link from the ICC website for R312.1.3 Openings


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## ADAguy (Apr 2, 2021)

If allowed, they must be maintained, as in stressed to limit deflection of cables.


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## tbz (Apr 2, 2021)

ADAguy said:


> If allowed, they must be maintained, as in stressed to limit deflection of cables.


Please explain "Must be Maintained"

Were in the Michigan residential code does it say specifically that "Cable infill must be Maintained"


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## ADAguy (Apr 2, 2021)

Space between cables cannot exceed 4", cable is subject to stretching over time if tension not maintained.


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## tbz (Apr 5, 2021)

ADAguy said:


> Space between cables cannot exceed 4", cable is subject to stretching over time if tension not maintained.


That is an assumption about the stretching, though accurate for poorly fabricated cable railings and cheep cables being used.

I have been designing, fabricating and installing cable railings going on 25 plus years now, and when properly built, limiting the run distance between termination posts and using posts that are structurally able to hold tension deflection, unless the structure is poorly built, requiring re-tensioning is rare.

If the cables are coming that loose they require review for tension, either the cables are the wrong grade, fittings are poorly built or the termination posts and structure are not proper for supporting the tension.  

But the point I am still trying to grasp is the statement "Must be Maintained", what code section?


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## ADAguy (Apr 9, 2021)

ADA requires all "accessible" features to be maintained. In CA that would be a minimum requirement to be complied with.


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## tbz (Apr 10, 2021)

ADAguy said:


> ADA requires all "accessible" features to be maintained. In CA that would be a minimum requirement to be complied with.



Title of subject post clearly states project is in Michigan, not California
Were in any ADA does it apply to a private residential deck being built under the IRC?
I am curious how you get here?

Were in ADA does it extend any jurisdiction to "GUARDS", are you saying if the guard is in an accessible route, even though it is not required, regulated or mentioned within the ADA LAW, that "ADA" now requires the "Guard" to be under a property maintenance inspection for cable tension?  
ADAguy, I am not picking on you here, though it might seem that way, cable infill on guards whether the guard is required or not, gets a very bad rep for absolutely no reason at all.  And I express no reason, as there are no data of any injury happening because of this type of infill being inplace within a guard system.

If a product was able to sue over a civil rights violation of being stereotyped with a bad rep, cable infill would be at the top spot to claim a violation on it's civil right to exist within a building structure.

I am just finding it hard that your emoji title is ADAguy, yet you openly stereotype a product with a post that is over reaching at best.

After personally spending over 15 years researching and defending infill requirements prior to and through the ICC-CTC review of Climbable Guards, I get a little hot under the collar when products have over reaching statements made about them, yes like "Must Be Maintained".

Sorry if this gets some of you a little ruffled, Regards Tom


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## ADAguy (Apr 11, 2021)

If adopted in your jurisdiction; SF as a B n B or other use?

*ADA - Sec.36.211 Maintenance of accessible features.*

(a) A public accommodation (*as in for rent?*) shall maintain in operable working condition those features of facilities and equipment that are required to be readily accessible to and usable by persons with disabilities by the Act or this part.

*18.14.040 - General maintenance requirements.

SHARE LINK TO SECTIONPRINT SECTIONDOWNLOAD (DOCX) OF SECTIONSEMAIL SECTIONCOMPARE VERSIONS



Chapter 18.14 - PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE[17]


Footnotes:*

_--- (*17*) ---_

*Editor's note—*_ Ord. No. 5337 , §§ 2, 17, adopted July 28, 2020, repealed Ch. 18.14, §§ 18.14.010—18.14.090, and enacted a new Ch. 18.14 to read as set out herein. Former Ch. 18.14 pertained to similar subject matter and derived from Ord. No. 5286, § 17, adopted April 18, 2017._

A. General. The provisions of this Chapter *shall govern the minimum conditions and the responsibilities *of persons *for maintenance of structures,* equipment and exterior property. The owner of the premises shall maintain the structures and exterior property in compliance with these requirements, except as otherwise provided for in this Chapter. All vacant structures and premises thereof or vacant land *shall be maintained in a clean, safe,* secure and sanitary *condition* as provided herein *so as not to* cause a blighting problem or *adversely affect the public health or safety.



C. Exterior Structure.* The exterior of a structure shall be maintained in good repair, structurally sound and sanitary *so as not to pose a threat to* the *public health, safety *or welfare including but *not limited to the following: ……….*

9. Stairways, Decks, Porches and *Balconies.* Every exterior stairway, deck, porch and balcony, and all appurtenances attached thereto*, shall be maintained structurally sound, in good repair, with proper anchorage and capable of supporting the imposed loads.*


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## Mark K (Apr 11, 2021)

The building code specifies certain characteristics of the guard rail assembly.  These can be satisfied by the use of cable.  Typically the controlling criteria has to do  with the space preventing a certain size object to pass through the assembly.  When cabling is used the spacing of the cables will be controlled by the tension in  the cabling.  If the tension is low it is easier to spread the cables.

Do not expect to find any proscriptive provisions for cable  railing in the iRC.  The required tension can be calculated but accurate calculations can be tricky

If there is a question the test would be to attempt to pass the test object between the cables.  If the object passes between the  cables either you tighten the cables or install the cables closer together.  I would expect that you could install a mesh or some other objects to the cables that would address the safety issue.

Some places have not adopted the ICC property maintenance code.


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## ADAguy (Apr 12, 2021)

Correct response, thank you


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