# Upcoming rafter repair



## ICE (Oct 9, 2011)

I was inspecting under slab plumbing on the next building when I spotted this.

Shirley, they will ask: "Well what do you want us to do."  My answer will be: "Something other than this."


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## McShan (Oct 9, 2011)

wow, thats about all you can say, besides what were you thinking? I need to come to your area, you make all my builders look like they are the best in the world.


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## MtnArch (Oct 10, 2011)

Gotta ask ... just what did the plans (or truss drawings?) show?


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## Chad Pasquini (Oct 10, 2011)

At least they snapped lines on the sheathing for stud locations


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 10, 2011)

I think they where just trying to score some extra LEED/GREEN points by reducing the waste on the job


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## ICE (Oct 10, 2011)

MtnArch said:
			
		

> Gotta ask ... just what did the plans (or truss drawings?) show?


I was just snooping around and haven't looked at the roof plans.  When I can get away with it, I like to look a building over, alone, with no distractions.

I also spotted this.  I'm not saying it's absolutely wrong yet only because I haven't seen the framing plans.  Both headers stop short at the corner.  There appears to be nothing in the corner which is supporting a floor and roof.


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## TJacobs (Oct 10, 2011)

I feel so inadequate that I can't post pictures like ICE...


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## ICE (Oct 10, 2011)

Chad,

I spent my share of time as a nailer and it was eight hours a day.  We never had lines.  I hit the wall with the gun to find a stud if the hanger didn't give me a nail to go by.  Shiners weren't allowed either.  Now when I tell them to fix the shiners, I get a look like I am crazy.

Now Shirely is going to ask where shiners are mentioned in the code.  They're not.  It's an OSHA thing.  We can't have the electrician that's hustling cable stick himself, and how about the pudgy little insulator, is it OK to impale him just because he's overweight.  Anyway, that's the BS I give them as I write "no shiners."  It's the same for roof sheathing and it's a tall, skinny tin knocker we worry about.

When I see lines I wonder about the experience level of the entire project.  I get a real kick out of it when I see chalk on the drywall.  Especially red chalk.


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## ICE (Oct 10, 2011)

TJacobs said:
			
		

> I feel so inadequate that I can't post pictures like ICE...


  You should get out of the office more and take a camera along.


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## Rio (Oct 10, 2011)

Nothin' wrong with snapping lines to keep on layout; doesn't take long to do and can prevent a lot of re-work, also can prevent shooting through the ply..........


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## ICE (Oct 10, 2011)

Rio said:
			
		

> Nothin' wrong with snapping lines to keep on layout; doesn't take long to do and can prevent a lot of re-work, also can prevent shooting through the ply..........


In production work there is no time for that.  We got along just fine without them.  Nails shouldn't be able to shoot through plywood.  I use a 38 for that.


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## Rio (Oct 11, 2011)

Well, all of my framing was for custom houses and additions but I was originally taught framing by a production framer; he never snapped lines and would usually stay on target but I found it easier to get in the habit of taking a few minutes and snapping the lines.  He also taught that the first thing a framer does is nail up the guard to increase productivity, a technique I used for a bit but gave up.  The nails will go through when you hit a part of the plywood that has a void  while missing the stud, which is another reason to never be anywhere in line with someone using a nail gun...............


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## Min&Max (Oct 11, 2011)

Do-it-yourselfers snap chalk lines. Snapped lines are a waste of time. A few minutes per sheet adds up when doing an entire house.


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## Pcinspector1 (Oct 11, 2011)

When all is said and done they'll have a panoramic view of the forest!

pc1


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## GCtony (Oct 11, 2011)

Let's see... pay two guys for 15 min to snap lines on a floor deck or roof or pay one guy 2 or 3  hours to inspect for and remove misses?  Oh, you're in the attic space, don't forget the fall protection.  When standing up rock, it takes less than 5 seconds to draw two lines with a tape and pencil vs. 5 seconds to remove each screw that missed the stud.


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## GCtony (Oct 11, 2011)

Those corner headers, It looks like they mitered the headers.


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## Frank (Oct 11, 2011)

ICE said:
			
		

> In production work there is no time for that.  We got along just fine without them.  Nails shouldn't be able to shoot through plywood.  I use a 38 for that.


Nails going through the wood and hitting somebody are responsible for about 3500 ER vists a year out of 25000 nail gun ER visits.

http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia02/os/nailgun.PDF


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## Rio (Oct 11, 2011)

Min&Max said:
			
		

> Do-it-yourselfers snap chalk lines. Snapped lines are a waste of time. A few minutes per sheet adds up when doing an entire house.


Whatever works for you is the right way to go but it's more like a few minutes for the whole wall section, not per sheet.  In my experience with framing and construction in general I've found there's a lot to be said for a steady and measured pace then frenetically hustling around pushing hard the whole time. In the end the time difference is minimal and it makes for a more enjoyable experience.

For example when rolling out roof trusses on a second story, instead of walking the plates we'd take a little more time and set up some simple staging to keep the crew back from the point of maximum danger; as pointed out above, ixnayed the 'let's keep the guard up on the skilsaw' technique, if doing a bunch of repetitive cuts set up saw horses instead of using the foot to elevate the wood, insist on the crew wearing safety glasses, all sorts of fuddy duddy stuff, including snapping guidelines when appropriate that I've been ridiculed for but at the end of the day just about as much was accomplished, it was a safer work environment, the work was more polished, and if it ended up costing us a few hundred bucks by the time the job was done it was considered money well spent.


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## gbhammer (Oct 11, 2011)

TJacobs said:
			
		

> I feel so inadequate that I can't post pictures like ICE...


I just feel bad because I never can see ICE's pics. If someone could give me the secret as to why, and how to fix the problem, I sure would be thankful


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## Chad Pasquini (Oct 11, 2011)

i have done it both ways, with or with out snapping lines and it sure does not take 15 minutes, usually the low man on job is the one using the gun, sure makes it easier for me not to have to go back and look over his shoulder. Much cleaner job.


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## McShan (Oct 11, 2011)

gbhammer, you are missing a lot of great photo's he could publish a book of what not to do.


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## ICE (Oct 11, 2011)

Rio said:
			
		

> Whatever works for you is the right way to go but it's more like a few minutes for the whole wall section, not per sheet.  In my experience with framing and construction in general I've found there's a lot to be said for a steady and measured pace then frenetically hustling around pushing hard the whole time. In the end the time difference is minimal and it makes for a more enjoyable experience.For example when rolling out roof trusses on a second story, instead of walking the plates we'd take a little more time and set up some simple staging to keep the crew back from the point of maximum danger; as pointed out above, ixnayed the 'let's keep the guard up on the skilsaw' technique, if doing a bunch of repetitive cuts set up saw horses instead of using the foot to elevate the wood, insist on the crew wearing safety glasses, all sorts of fuddy duddy stuff, including snapping guidelines when appropriate that I've been ridiculed for but at the end of the day just about as much was accomplished, it was a safer work environment, the work was more polished, and if it ended up costing us a few hundred bucks by the time the job was done it was considered money well spent.


Rio,

I agree with you.  It is just that I don't need the lines to hit a 2"x.  Sure I get a few shiners and I know where they are because I can tell if I missed and I shoot it again.  Then I pop those few shiners.  No big deal.  Listen to me, it's like it was yesterday.

I took on a piece work job wrapping two story houses with 10' 1/2" ply.  I hung and had a nailer following me.  I ran with two sheets.  I cut out the front door and no other openings.  At the end of the day I was on the second house.  The GC showed up and said: "Hey, you've got to cut out the windows and doors."  I said: "No problem" and went inside with a chain saw and let'r rip.  The GC said: " You can't do that."  I said: "Why not."  The GC said: "You're making too much money."


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## ICE (Oct 11, 2011)

GCtony said:
			
		

> Those corner headers, It looks like they mitered the headers.


Could be....but I doubt it.


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## ICE (Oct 11, 2011)

gbhammer said:
			
		

> I just feel bad because I never can see ICE's pics. If someone could give me the secret as to why, and how to fix the problem, I sure would be thankful


What happens when you try to view my pictures?  What computer do you use?  What is the OS?


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## gbhammer (Oct 12, 2011)

Dell - windows 7


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## gbhammer (Oct 12, 2011)

ICE there simply is no picture, no link to a picture, nothing below the text.


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## imhotep (Oct 12, 2011)

gbhammer said:
			
		

> I just feel bad because I never can see ICE's pics. If someone could give me the secret as to why, and how to fix the problem, I sure would be thankful


Do you have 'Show Images' checked under 'General Settings' in the 'My Settings' options?  Check it out.


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## rktect 1 (Oct 12, 2011)

gbhammer said:
			
		

> ICE there simply is no picture, no link to a picture, nothing below the text.


Cuz you're RESTRICTED. j/k


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## Darren Emery (Oct 12, 2011)

gbhammer said:
			
		

> ICE there simply is no picture, no link to a picture, nothing below the text.


Try this:  Go to thread tools at the top of the page, select printable version.  See if you get links then.  Click on the link - see what happens - should open the image in a new window.  My guess is you have a internet filter system blocking access to Photobucket.

For comparison - check to see if you can open the image on this thread:  http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/showthread.php?6513-Would-this-concern-you


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## gbhammer (Oct 12, 2011)

Darren Emery said:
			
		

> Try this:  Go to thread tools at the top of the page, select printable version.  See if you get links then.  Click on the link - see what happens - should open the image in a new window.  My guess is you have a internet filter system blocking access to Photobucket. For comparison - check to see if you can open the image on this thread:  http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/showthread.php?6513-Would-this-concern-you


I can open that link with no problem.

I do have show pictures on, and I have reset my security setting to be very tolerant.

Very aggravating.


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## tmurray (Oct 12, 2011)

Are you at work or home? Your workplace firewall may be preventing you from viewing pictures.


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## gbhammer (Oct 12, 2011)

I'm at work, but why just Ice's pics everyone else comes threw at least I think the rest do.


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## ICE (Oct 12, 2011)

gbhammer said:
			
		

> I'm at work, but why just Ice's pics everyone else comes threw at least I think the rest do.


$50 and I'll unblock you.  Try it at home.  Try a smart phone.  You better hurry because I'm getting ready to roll out the good ones.


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## tmurray (Oct 13, 2011)

gbhammer said:
			
		

> I'm at work, but why just Ice's pics everyone else comes threw at least I think the rest do.


It depends on how your firewall is set up. Some firewalls block some picture sites, but not others. I'd try it from an outside computer and see if I still have the same problem.


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## Mule (Oct 13, 2011)

I've told this story before but it seems appropriate to tell it again here!

Framing houses in the 70's.... hired a gopher.. you know go fer this go fer that!!! Anyway we were finishing up framing a house and we just finished laying the decking down on the roof, told the new hire to go up there and nail off the roof and to be sure that he nailed the joints between the the sheathing really good! We were doing some punch out items and I here the new hire rat a tat tat rat a tat tat.. man he was tearing it UP!!! I'm thinking.. MAN!! I hired me a GOOD one this time.

One of my more experienced men came to me and said "Boss... you gotta come see this!" Okaaaay. what is it? Walked inside looked up at the sheathing and there were about a milion staples showing through!! The new hire had done exactly what I had said.. nail the joints really good. Only problem was is that instead of going up and down the rafters.. he was going left and right along the 8' direction of the sheathing...... CRAP!!!!


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 13, 2011)

He was a gopher not a framer. You got what you paid for


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## north star (Oct 13, 2011)

** * * **

Mule,

It's your fault anyway....Poor supervision of a "new hire !" :devil

You know how it is on here...  we abuse our own!

** * * **


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## Mule (Oct 13, 2011)

Yep!! Both of you guys nailed me to the wall.... uhhhhh sheathing!


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## gbhammer (Oct 13, 2011)

I used to love watching the new guys with their brooms. Never failed first week there they'd have clean up duty, and sure enough they hover all over the guy with the saw. Like a fly on .... You could hardly get them to do anything else they were so worried that the saw dust might pile up.


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