# Failure to complete construction



## Pcinspector1 (Aug 14, 2018)

Curious how you handle the homeowner that attempts to build a garage and fails to do it in 180 days and asked for additional time?

Do you ask that they fill out another permit with the remaining cost estimated to complete?

I'm not sure the county assessor can assess the building for taxes, not that I care but... this is ridiculous.


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## conarb (Aug 14, 2018)

Pcinspector1 said:


> Curious how you handle the homeowner that attempts to build a garage and fails to do it in 180 days and asked for additional time?
> 
> I'm not sure the county assessor can assess the building for taxes, not that I care but... this is ridiculous.



What do you care?  When building new of course you have to get the utilities hooked up but as far as additions/remodles who cares? I had an inspector call me once saying he had 3 jobs of mine in his district that had never been finaled. I told him to go final them, if there is anything wrong let me know.


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## mtlogcabin (Aug 14, 2018)

R105.5 Expiration.
Every permit issued shall become invalid unless the work authorized by such permit is commenced within 180 days after its issuance, or if the work authorized by such permit is suspended or abandoned for a period of 180 days after the time the work is commenced. The building official is authorized to grant, in writing, one or more extensions of time, for periods not more than 180 days each. The extension shall be requested in writing and justifiable cause demonstrated.

We interpret the above section to mean 180 days from the last inspection (pass or failed). We do require a written request for an extension and a reason for the request. However we have never turned one down. Remember not all work authorized by a permit requires an inspection and therein maybe the problem if your revocation of a permit goes to court. Did the owner clean up the site or project? Did he paint, install trim, cabinets, siding or sub-flooring or any other work you normally do not inspect.


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## Pcinspector1 (Aug 14, 2018)

The concern is that OSB can go for about a year with no protection and this roof has exposed OSB.

Ad far as the assessor, not my problem.


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## cda (Aug 14, 2018)

Pcinspector1 said:


> The concern is that OSB can go for about a year with no protection and this roof has exposed OSB.
> 
> Ad far as the assessor, not my problem.




So on commercial projects what do you do about a permit/ project that goes over??


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## my250r11 (Aug 14, 2018)

If OSB is deteriorating write correction to remove and replace, it doesn't meet like new requirements.


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## Pcinspector1 (Aug 14, 2018)

Last inspection, was a slab inspection. 

OSB roof sheeting is grey and walls have not been completely covered.


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## my250r11 (Aug 14, 2018)

mtlogcabin said:


> We interpret the above section to mean 180 days from the last inspection (pass or failed). We do require a written request for an extension and a reason for the request.



Same here.


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## Pcinspector1 (Aug 14, 2018)

I'm not seeing any deterioration to warrant removal.

Was more curious if additional fees are levied for the remaining work?


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## my250r11 (Aug 14, 2018)

OSB isn't an exterior finish system, and requires weather protection. there's a couple of ways to write it up that choice is yours. JMO


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## my250r11 (Aug 14, 2018)

If still in the scope of work and making progress we wouldn't charge any fees, only if it is apparent they abandoned the work and decided to start again. Then 1/2 the original fee, resubmit and new permit.


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## JCraver (Aug 14, 2018)

I believe - and enforce - 180 days from the date the permit was issued.  I'm not keeping track of the actual day you begin construction (and starting the clock on the day of your first/last inspection makes no sense at all) - for the purposes of the code, your construction starts/permit is valid when I sign and date your permit.  If you can't get it built in 6 months, then you owe me a request for an extension.

On day 179, if you come in and sign your name to a paper asking for an extension, you get 90 more days (code says, "not more than" 180, our policy is 90 at a time).  And I'll do that on day 89 of as many 90 day periods as you want, as long as some kind of progress is being made.

If you come in on day 181, you're paying me for a new permit and your 180 starts over from that day.

If I don't see you at all after day 180, then the Property Maintenance code kicks in and you've got a "dangerous" or "unlawful" structure.  If you're half done building and you run out of money, then you better come up with some quick - because the first time a neighbor complains, you're getting a Notice to tear whatever-it-is down.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


How this really works is:  I call you on day 179 or thereabouts and say, "Hey, shoot me an email and ask for a permit extension", then you say "ok", and send me one.  I extend it for 90 and we all live happily ever after.  Seems to work out for the most part..


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## Pcinspector1 (Aug 14, 2018)

JC, what your doin, I like it, I'm just a bit to easy going here and the party is taking advantage of that. Sounds like that could work here.


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## ICE (Aug 14, 2018)

conarb said:


> What do you care?  When building new of course you have to get the utilities hooked up but as far as additions/remodles who cares? I had an inspector call me once saying he had 3 jobs of mine in his district that had never been finaled. *I told him to go final them*, if there is anything wrong let me know.



I hope that the inspector asked you to coordinate inspections with the owners and get a request for inspection called in.


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## ICE (Aug 14, 2018)

JCraver said:


> I believe - and enforce - 180 days from the date the permit was issued.  I'm not keeping track of the actual day you begin construction (and starting the clock on the day of your first/last inspection makes no sense at all) - for the purposes of the code, your construction starts/permit is valid when I sign and date your permit.  If you can't get it built in 6 months, then you owe me a request for an extension.
> 
> On day 179, if you come in and sign your name to a paper asking for an extension, you get 90 more days (code says, "not more than" 180, our policy is 90 at a time).  And I'll do that on day 89 of as many 90 day periods as you want, as long as some kind of progress is being made.
> 
> ...


We have a similar system with longer time frames.  Fifteen years is doable.  Seen that.  It's still in a stage of construction.


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## conarb (Aug 14, 2018)

ICE said:


> I hope that the inspector asked you to coordinate inspections with the owners and get a request for inspection called in.


Tiger, you must be confusing me with someone else, maybe the man in the skirt? I call when I want an inspection, if they are living in the house I don't need an inspection, you guys call and go see if you want.  Home owners don't want finals because they trigger reassessments, nobody wants to get reassessed and pay more taxes, I even tell them they are going to get hit eventually and the damn county will hit them for an "escaped assessment" including penalties and interest.


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## steveray (Aug 15, 2018)

JCraver said:


> I believe - and enforce - 180 days from the date the permit was issued. I'm not keeping track of the actual day you begin construction (and starting the clock on the day of your first/last inspection makes no sense at all) - for the purposes of the code, your construction starts/permit is valid when I sign and date your permit. If you can't get it built in 6 months, then you owe me a request for an extension.



You will get beat in court if it ever gets there..."is suspended or abandoned for a period of 180 days"...Legally, if I put in one nail, it is not abandoned and the burden of proof would be on you....Why would any of you charge someone for work they have already payed for?


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## JCraver (Aug 15, 2018)

If you want to fight me on a $30 permit fee (the garage in the OP) because I tell you you're expired when you call for an inspection, then I'm happy to go to court with you.  If I lose then maybe we'll change the policy.

Our software here, poor as it is, spits me out a report once a month on open permits.  I call the folks who are close to expiration, and every single time they've sent me an email or come in with a written request for an extension.  Never once has someone told me no when I've asked.  It will sometime happen I'm sure, but this is one of those times where waiting until it does is better for everybody, IMO.


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## FLSTF01 (Aug 15, 2018)

Jcraver:

If your code uses the "commenced within 180 after issuance" language, you are wrong to assume the permit needs an extension within 180 days of you signing the permit.  Commence means to start, it has nothing to do with finishing the project.


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## Pcinspector1 (Aug 15, 2018)

R105.5 Expiration.
Every permit issued shall become invalid unless the work authorized by such permit is commenced within 180 days after its issuance, *or* if the work authorized by such permit is suspended or abandoned for a period of 180 days after the time the work is commenced. The building official is authorized to grant, in writing, one or more extensions of time, for periods not more than 180 days each. The extension shall be requested in writing and justifiable cause demonstrated.

So... Bubba can fire up the Bobcat and start excavation on day 179 and be legal and ask for an extension on day 180.

So... like ICE sez you could have a project that's fifteen years old and not completed.

So... in theory you could have several approved 180 day extensions on a project.


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## cda (Aug 15, 2018)

I love it when a city goes out and tells a person how fast to build thier Building.

We have had a few threads on that.


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## mtlogcabin (Aug 15, 2018)

I had a house that took 4 years and 100's of commercial projects that take a year or more to complete


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## JCraver (Aug 15, 2018)

FLSTF01 said:


> Jcraver:
> 
> If your code uses the "commenced within 180 after issuance" language, you are wrong to assume the permit needs an extension within 180 days of you signing the permit.  Commence means to start, it has nothing to do with finishing the project.



Not the first time I've ever been wrong.

But like I said, I have no method available to me that will allow me to track the actual day you started work, nor the actual day you stopped.  So until someone takes me to court and wins with your argument, your permit is good for 180 days from the day I sign it.  It's even printed on the permit card I give you to post: "Permit expires 180 days from issue date".

And like PC says just below your post - on day 179 I can/will extend your permit, and I'll keep extending it as long as you need me to as long as you're making progress.  That's the method that works, and the method that has so far gained the most compliance.  "If it ain't broke don't fix it", and all that...


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## steveray (Aug 15, 2018)

We have a new law that closes all permits after 9 years....


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## JCraver (Aug 15, 2018)

I hate making up codes, or enforcing things that aren't in the book, or anything that is harder on the residents than it should be - I'm always on the side of the permittee before I'm on the side of the code.  So this thread has me re-thinking how we do this, and digging through our ordinances to see if this is something the City did on purpose (they've been doing it the way I described since long before my time) and I find this:

§ 150.02  BUILDING PERMIT FEES.
   (A)   The city’s building permit fee schedule is set out in §38.01 of this code of ordinances.
   (B)   No permit is necessary for new siding, painting, new kitchen cabinets and/or counters, carpeting or similar finish work.
* (C)   Permits are good for six months.
*
We also have the standard language that says "if one code is stricter than the other than the stricter one applies".

So forget everything I said in this thread.  Permits here are good for six months.


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## mtlogcabin (Aug 15, 2018)

180 days = 6 months give or take a few days


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## Pcinspector1 (Aug 15, 2018)

So.. if the plans were reviewed under, let say the 2000 IRC, and a permit was issued and the project's 15-years and still going, it would have to meet those codes and the ADA codes that were adopted at that time, even if you have allowed an extension?


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## linnrg (Aug 15, 2018)

cold and frozen up here sometimes more than 180 days - we have never worried about the 180 days.  I just got off of the phone with a guy who started his house over 3 years ago.  I do not know the origin of the 180 day requirement but feel that it is not something that the code should be interested in at ALL.  Will a house or other built project always be better if it is done in 180 days or less?  This seems like a requirement that was in place to control office paperwork possibly to track projects and to have leverage to get builders/owners to follow through.  I find that there can be real reasons why projects get stalled.  One that I have is because the fellas wife underwent kidney replacement, on another the elderly applicant died and his elderly wife has to try and finish it out.  Most are owner builders that are trying to keep it all out of pocket without a mortgage (who can argue with the investment smarts of that?).  One routine bust of the 180 days in particular is the program called RuralCap where self help programs are built by way of the federal program - they are so slow I call it "livin on ruralcap time" (yes the tune of "livin on Tulsa time" is playing out in my head).

I have projects that have gone on for over ten years.  Outside my jurisdiction where there are no requirements for permits I call it "Alaska land of the unfinished where tyvek and blue tarps are for life!"


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## cda (Aug 15, 2018)

Pcinspector1 said:


> So.. if the plans were reviewed under, let say the 2000 IRC, and a permit was issued and the project's 15-years and still going, it would have to meet those codes and the ADA codes that were adopted at that time, even if you have allowed an extension?




Yep

Unless Ceaser or your city wrote something else:::

“So let it be written, so let it be done"


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## JCraver (Aug 16, 2018)

Pcinspector1 said:


> So.. if the plans were reviewed under, let say the 2000 IRC, and a permit was issued and the project's 15-years and still going, it would have to meet those codes and the ADA codes that were adopted at that time, even if you have allowed an extension?



You'd have to have *very* good records on the entirety of the time though, right, especially for the ADA?  I think for the building code you're correct, but on the ADA side, maybe not so much.  I'd bet solid money that IL would say they have to meet the current accessibility code.  IF you could prove that the construction was steadily ongoing and that every extension required had been granted/processed properly then _maybe_ they'd let it through - but if anywhere in there you miss one T or forget to dot one i, my guess is you're going to be on the current code according to the state.

Good question.


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## Pcinspector1 (Aug 16, 2018)

Reason I mention this is there have been changes to the electrical code sections in regards to GFCI's that would come into play if you had issued a permit prior to 2000. One is if you have power too a detached garage you have to provide a minimum of one GFCI receptacle. If you have additional receptacles they would have to be GFCI protected as well.

There  have been additional building code changes that may need to be looked at, like wind load on the garage doors have changed recently requiring additional bracing and there's additional portal bracing that may have not been in previous code years.


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## Rick18071 (Aug 16, 2018)

Here a permit is good for 5 years. The problem here is when the pool is filled and no fence yet and there is no state or local law to make them have a fence before the pool is filled.


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## JCraver (Aug 16, 2018)

Pcinspector1 said:


> Reason I mention this is there have been changes to the electrical code sections in regards to GFCI's that would come into play if you had issued a permit prior to 2000. One is if you have power too a detached garage you have to provide a minimum of one GFCI receptacle. If you have additional receptacles they would have to be GFCI protected as well.
> 
> There  have been additional building code changes that may need to be looked at, like wind load on the garage doors have changed recently requiring additional bracing and there's additional portal bracing that may have not been in previous code years.



Also AFCI's, tamper-proof receptacles, bonding, grounding, etc etc.  Just in the electrical codes there have been tremendous changes since '00.


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