# Alcohol based handrubs



## 1910 (Oct 3, 2018)

In the 2012 NC Fire Code alcohol based hand rub dispensers are restricted to certain locations, sizes, etc.. My question is, is this code section applied to existing buildings or just when this was adopted in the code book. The section is 3405.5 & 3405.5.1. I understand the requirements and that it was in the 2009 NC Fire Code just didn't know if this should be applied to an existing occupancies before this as I had a disagreement with a person and I am not 100 percent sure.

Sorry if this is a dumb question but wasn't sure on it.

Thanks for any help,


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## mark handler (Oct 3, 2018)

When does a dispenser exceed the exempt Quantities set forth in the code?
when have you seen a dispenser explode? catch fire?


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## cda (Oct 3, 2018)

Will have to look at newer codes and also the feds

I think rules have been relaxed??


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## cda (Oct 3, 2018)

I think it applies to existing


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## Sifu (Oct 3, 2018)

The requirements were enforced on existing health care occupancies, based on size an location back when that was part of my job.  But, where I was that came from NFPA 101, not the NC fire code.  The IFC has similar provisions as the NFPA.  The NFPA section is specifically for existing facilities (health care) and the IFC and as far as I know the NCFC are both maintenance codes, so they can apply to existing buildings.  NC was an easy state to get interpretations from when I was there, so you might ask them.


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## Sifu (Oct 3, 2018)

mark handler said:


> When does a dispenser exceed the exempt Quantities set forth in the code?
> when have you seen a dispenser explode? catch fire?


Though rare (very), they have been linked to fires.  I haven't had to deal with this for several years, but I think a lot of facilities have moved to hand rubs that are not regulated due to the alcohol content.  The biggest problem we saw was a retrofit over an electrical switch or outlet.


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## mark handler (Oct 3, 2018)

Alcohol Based Hand Rubs (ABHRs)
How much ABHR product can be stored in a control area? 
Storage of quantities greater than 5 gallons in a single smoke compartment will need to meet the requirements of NFPA 30 Flammable and Combustible Liquid Code.
The maximum allowable quantity per control area is 120 gallons. 
The quantity shall be increased by 100% in buildings equipped with an approved automatic sprinkler system. 
Quantity shall be increased by 100% when stored in an approved storage cabinet.
Placement What is the total amount of ABHR product that can be used in any one area?  
No more than 10 gallons of ABHR shall be in use in a single smoke compartment.
How close can the ABHR dispensers be to each other? 
Dispensers shall be separated from each other by horizontal spacing of not less than 48 inches (1220 mm).
How close can the ABHR dispenser be to an electrical outlet? 
Dispensers should not be installed directly adjacent to, directly above, or below an electrical receptacle, switch, appliance, device, or other ignition source.


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## Mark K (Oct 4, 2018)

So  alcohol based hand rubs in a dispenser attached to the building is limited while if an individuals were to place the same hand rubs on the individuals desk this would be acceptable?


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## JCraver (Oct 4, 2018)

This is ridiculous code.  Reason number 4,000,001 people don't like codes and/or inspectors.

Hand sanitizer?  Really?  I wish I'd been at the hearings when this got introduced.


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## Sifu (Oct 4, 2018)

Mark K said:


> So  alcohol based hand rubs in a dispenser attached to the building is limited while if an individuals were to place the same hand rubs on the individuals desk this would be acceptable?


I think quantity plays a role in the regulations, regardless of whether they are on a deck or a wall.


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## Builder Bob (Oct 4, 2018)

The issue is that the sanitizer hand cleaner is flammable and if large quantities are available, the looney tune visiting the ER can take it and start a fire in a hospital or institutional setting........... as ridiculous as it may seem, I am sure that somewhere in america an idiot has either burned himself;others; or started a fire with hand sanitizer...... so moral of the story, don't smoke and use hand sanitizer while holding an open flame.

Codes are generally reactive to a problem that has happened somewhere in somebody's life.


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## JCraver (Oct 4, 2018)

Builder Bob said:


> The issue is that the sanitizer hand cleaner is flammable and if large quantities are available, the looney tune visiting the ER can take it and start a fire in a hospital or institutional setting........... as ridiculous as it may seem, I am sure that somewhere in america an idiot has either burned himself;others; or started a fire with hand sanitizer...... so moral of the story, don't smoke and use hand sanitizer while holding an open flame.
> 
> Codes are generally reactive to a problem that has happened somewhere in somebody's life.



I don't disagree.  But we can't cover every dumb thing every dumb person is ever going to do in the building codes.  And we shouldn't.


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 4, 2018)

Basically the same as Sterno 
60% to 80% alcohol


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## Builder Bob (Oct 4, 2018)

True, I also agree JC,,,, but in looney bins where craziness reigns, I think it would be best to limit available quantities for consumption and or acts of arson or acts of violence against others -  In the Fire Service, I have seen fist fights, knife fights, and crazy people running amuck all at the local ER as we were transporting a patient into the ER....... and we want to let them have handy access to a flammable liquid?  No thank you.

FYI, just for fun, take one of the liquid plastic bags used in the dispenser, squeeze the bag and prick a pin hole into the nozzle so a thin stream squirts about 10 to 15 feet..... take a lighter and place it into the finer mist of the stream..... viola- a portable flamethrower.


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## JCraver (Oct 4, 2018)

Right.  But you can do that with any aerosol can, too.

Or you could create quite a fire with the reams of paperwork they make you fill out before you even get to the waiting room nowadays.  I sprained my foot pretty bad ~6 weeks ago on the farm, and went to the hospital to get an x-ray to see if it was broken.  JUST an x-ray, everything else was handled at my regular Dr.'s office.  I left the hospital with *11* sheets of paper (and not one of them was the dang x-ray I went there to get).  

Those, a Bic lighter, and one of those fabric chairs in the lobby could have been a heck of a blaze..


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## 1910 (Oct 5, 2018)

No reason to bash me! I never said I seen it catch fire or that the codes are perfect. Some codes I think are a little crazy and some I think are a little relaxed, but I did not make the codes or have any input on what the codes shall be. They all are in the code book for some reason in this crazy world though. Its in the new 2018 NC fire Code cycle as well as the old so I figured id ask if it was requirement for existing buildings. As I had a disagreement with an inspector about it so I figured I would ask.


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## Rick18071 (Oct 5, 2018)

Kids found a way to make sanitizer hand cleaner dangerous.


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## JCraver (Oct 5, 2018)

1910 said:


> No reason to bash me! I never said I seen it catch fire or that the codes are perfect. Some codes I think are a little crazy and some I think are a little relaxed, but I did not make the codes or have any input on what the codes shall be. They all are in the code book for some reason in this crazy world though. Its in the new 2018 NC fire Code cycle as well as the old so I figured id ask if it was requirement for existing buildings. As I had a disagreement with an inspector about it so I figured I would ask.




No bashing intended of you or the post was intended, sorry if that was misunderstood.  I'm all about bashing absurd codes - and this one definitely qualifies.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.


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