# Two questions regarding garage installations of furnaces.



## EricWatkins (Dec 8, 2015)

The IFGC (2009) states that an appliance with an ignition source must be elevated such that the source of ignition is 18" above the floor when installed in a garage (I'm speaking of residential garages).  I had let some slide in the past that were 90%+ efficient when they were using a two pipe system for 100% fresh combustion air from outside and were in an adjacent closet in the garage.  Upon further reading today, I see that ignition source can also be any kind of electrical switching device.  This pretty much makes me want to do a 180 on this as pretty much all furnaces have their relays (fan, draft inducer, ignitor) on the circuit board in the blower cabinet.  Thought? What is everyone else doing?  To me it seems like a no-brainer, but upon mentioning it to middle-management, my boss kind of immediately freaked out and is worried about killing business (sigh....yes, I'm serious)

Secondly:  I just inspected an old repair garage that had it's furnace replaced.  The original installation had the furnace installed basically right inside the repair area with no walls or anything.  Of course, this may have been legal at the time it was originally installed in the 80s, but now it is all kinds of wrong according to the IFGC which requires it to be in a separate room with a 1-hour separation.  So I'm looking at IFGC 2009 section 102.4 and trying to figure out if that is good enough reasoning to let this installation be legal.  I know it's not the way I want it, but I also know the political climate of my city government and I don't want to make any bigger of a splash than necessary.  I'd love to hear your input on this. Thanks everyone!


----------



## mtlogcabin (Dec 8, 2015)

> my boss kind of immediately freaked out and is worried about killing business


How freaked out would he look on the 6:00 news report about a garage explosion killing a soccer mom and two kids?

You are right on what the code calls in "ignition source"



> the IFGC which requires it to be in a separate room with a 1-hour separation.


What code section? I can't find it.


----------



## BSSTG (Dec 8, 2015)

Greetings,

New equipment need be brought up to snuff regarding elevations, separations and whatever else is required. I don't believe 102.4 is applicable for new equipment install but would be applicable for repair of existing equipment only.

That said, good luck. Where I used to work my above thought might have been shot down. But then, I don't work there anymore.

BSSTG


----------



## EricWatkins (Dec 8, 2015)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> what code section? I can't find it.


ifgc 2009 305.10


----------



## Pcinspector1 (Dec 8, 2015)

IFGC 2012 305.10 requires 1-hr seperation


----------



## EricWatkins (Dec 8, 2015)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> How freaked out would he look on the 6:00 news report about a garage explosion killing a soccer mom and two kids?


I couldn't agree more.


----------



## cda (Dec 8, 2015)

EricWatkins said:
			
		

> I couldn't agree more.


I have learned the hard way

I found it is better to educate each other

Ask the boss to come look at say the heater and see if both agree it is far enough off the ground.

Take the code book and if disagreement try to figure out why the disagreement.

If you fell it is way out of code and boss says no problem

Ask him nicely to sign the approval

But it is good to educate each other so on the same page.


----------



## EricWatkins (Dec 8, 2015)

cda said:
			
		

> I have learned the hard wayI found it is better to educate each other
> 
> Ask the boss to come look at say the heater and see if both agree it is far enough off the ground.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Yes, actually, this is exactly what is happening right now.  I left him the IFGC with relevant areas bookmarked to read.  We will probably meet at the job tomorrow to see what can be done.


----------



## JBI (Dec 8, 2015)

Gas fired appliances that are 'resistant to flammable vapor ignition' are the exception to the 18" elevation rule. Many newer gas appliances seem to have a more enclosed burner than the old fashioned models where you saw the flame as soon as the cover plate was removed. The problem in a commercial repair garage is that the flammable vapors are all over the place compared to a residential garage, not to mention the additional occupants and such that go along with a commercial operation. I would also agree that a replacement and a repair are two different things. At a minimum elevating the new unit, except as permitted by code, would be in order. Enclosure I would need to carefully consider the text of the code before requiring. I think the enclosure may not be required in every case...

*[A] 102.2 Existing installations.*

 Except as otherwise provided for in this chapter, a provision in this code shall not require the removal, _alteration _or abandonment of, nor prevent the continued utilization and maintenance of, existing installations lawfully in existence at the time of the adoption of this code. *[A] 102.2.1 Existing buildings.* 

Additions, alterations, renovations or repairs related to building or structural issues shall be regulated by the _International Building Code. _

*[A] 102.3 Maintenance.* 

Installations, both existing and new, and parts thereof shall be maintained in proper operating condition in accordance with the original design and in a safe condition. Devices or safeguards which are required by this code shall be maintained in compliance with the code edition under which they were installed. The owner or the owner’s designated agent shall be responsible for maintenance of installations. To determine compliance with this provision, the code official shall have the authority to require an installation to be reinspected.

*[A] 102.4 Additions, alterations or repairs.* 

Additions, alterations, renovations or repairs to installations shall conform to that required for new installations without requiring the existing installation to comply with all of the requirements of this code. Additions, alterations or repairs shall not cause an existing installation to become unsafe, hazardous or overloaded.

 Minor additions, alterations, renovations and repairs to existing installations shall meet the provisions for new construction, unless such work is done in the same manner and arrangement as was in the existing system, is not hazardous and is _approved._


----------



## cda (Dec 8, 2015)

Is it a "repair garage"?

If so does it meet an exception

305.10 (IFGS) Repair garages. Appliances installed in repair garages shall be installed in a detached building or room, separated from repair areas by walls or partitions, floors or floor-ceiling assemblies that are constructed so as to prohibit the transmission of vapors and having a fire-resistance rating of not less than 1 hour, and that have no openings in the wall separating the repair area within 8 feet (2438 mm) of the floor. Wall penetrations shall be firestopped. Air for combustion purposes shall be obtained from the outdoors. The appliance room shall not be used for the storage of combustible materials.

Exceptions:

1. Overhead heaters where installed not less than 8 feet (2438 mm) above the floor shall be permitted.

2. Heating appliances for vehicle repair areas where there is no dispensing or transferring of Class I or II flammable or combustible liquids or liquefied petroleum gas shall be installed in accordance with NFPA 30A.


----------



## mtlogcabin (Dec 8, 2015)

A brake shop, muffler repair, front end alignment, transmission shop and even major engine rebuilds may or may not be dispensing or transferring Class I or II flammable, combustible liquids or LPG. You need to look at the operation and make a decision based on the hazards and the code requirements.

You will probably find exception 2 will apply for a majority of what a majority or people would call a repair shop.

Thanks for the code section.

Ask the fire guy to go with you to help identify the chemicals in use


----------

