# Appliance height



## Sifu (Jul 7, 2020)

304.6 Public garages. Appliances located in public garages,
motor fueling-dispensing facilities, repair garages *or other
areas frequented by motor vehicles*, shall be installed a minimum
of 8 feet (2438 mm) above the floor. *Where motor vehicles
are capable of passing under an appliance, the appliance
shall be installed at the clearances required by the appliance
manufacturer and not less than 1 foot (305 mm) higher than
the tallest vehicle garage door opening.*
Exception: The requirements of this section shall not
apply where the appliances are *protected from motor vehicle
impact* and installed in accordance with Section 304.3
and NFPA 30A.

I have a fast food canopy over a drive through.  It has gas heaters and electric fans installed at 8' above the drive surface under the canopy roof.  There is no garage door, just an open canopy.  They do show "removable magnetic delineators" to keep vehicles from passing underneath the appliances.  Would you consider this "protection from vehicle impact"?  What about a height restriction bar hanging over the entrance?


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## cda (Jul 7, 2020)

Sifu said:


> 304.6 Public garages. Appliances located in public garages,
> motor fueling-dispensing facilities, repair garages *or other
> areas frequented by motor vehicles*, shall be installed a minimum
> of 8 feet (2438 mm) above the floor. *Where motor vehicles
> ...




C.F.A????


Is it a Public garage???

if not, section does not apply


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## classicT (Jul 7, 2020)

cda said:


> C.F.A????
> 
> 
> Is it a Public garage???
> ...


Why not? Did you read the first sentence in full, or just stop at the section title?



Sifu said:


> Appliances located in public garages, motor fueling-dispensing facilities, repair garages *or other areas frequented by motor vehicles*



I would accept a height restriction bar as an acceptable form of protection.

But the bigger question I have, is are they locating the heaters under a canopy that is open to the outside? If so, how does that work with your local energy code?


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## cda (Jul 7, 2020)

Ty J. said:


> Why not? Did you read the first sentence in full, or just stop at the section title?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It’s to keep workers warmer or cooler.


I am guessing they will have the head knocker sign, so the big wheel truck does not drive thru


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## classicT (Jul 7, 2020)

cda said:


> It’s to keep workers warmer or cooler.
> 
> 
> I am guessing they will have the head knocker sign, so the big wheel truck does not drive thru


Our energy code would not permit this. If that is the intent, then an air curtain unit can be installed over the serving window opening.

Still curious as to why you indicated that this section does not apply?


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## cda (Jul 7, 2020)

Ty J. said:


> Our energy code would not permit this. If that is the intent, then an air curtain unit can be installed over the serving window opening.
> 
> Still curious as to why you indicated that this section does not apply?




It is not in a building.

It is just weather protection for the poor employees that have to stand outside, and take an order


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## cda (Jul 7, 2020)

Since it is not top secret


http://youarecurrent.com/2019/09/24/chick-fil-a-requesting-canopies-for-outdoor-working-employees/


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## klarenbeek (Jul 7, 2020)

From the picture, those look like infrared radiant heaters. IFGC 303.4 (and IMC 303.4) requires protection from vehicle impact anywhere where vehicles can hit them, not just in garages.  You don't want a truck hitting the heater and busting the gas line.  No different than protecting an AC sitting in a parking lot. 

Also, infrared heaters will have required clearances around them, including below and to the side.  The clearances below can range anywhere from two to seven feet depending on the manufacturer's requirements.  They usually specifically include vehicles in their clearance requirements.  They can get surfaces below them hot very quickly, and can actually cause the paint on cars to bubble up if they are too close.


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## cda (Jul 7, 2020)

Ok protect them

Can it be by a sign normally seen, no vehicle taller than this high??? Mainly trying to protect the structure 

Or appears the height of them gives them the protection, as in the picture::

http://youarecurrent.com/2019/09/24/chick-fil-a-requesting-canopies-for-outdoor-working-employees/



*303.4 Protection From Damage


Appliances shall not be installed in a location where subject to mechanical damage unless protected by approved barriers.
*


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## TheCommish (Jul 7, 2020)

Going down another path is the building sprinklered? If so, the exception for  noncombustible overhang omitting sprinklers does not apply if there  are heating devices under  the  overhang


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## Sifu (Jul 8, 2020)

All good comments.  CDA nailed it, that is the applicant.  I think the section does apply.  I don't think the proposed "magnetic removable delineators" would meet the condition that a vehicle couldn't pass under them.  They don't show a head knocker, which I think is a more effective deterrent, though still not sure it would meet that standard.  The canopy is separated from the building.  I will need to consider the energy implications, frankly I didn't think about that, and am not too concerned.  I will look more into the clearance requirements, as well as the sprinkler question.  They also just revised the design to not include them.


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## Sifu (Jul 8, 2020)

Here is a snippet.


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## ADAguy (Jul 8, 2020)

No limit to the interesting (often overlooked) conditions described on the forum.
Is it possible to make available a subject matrix we could access of prior topics?


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## cda (Jul 8, 2020)

Sifu said:


> All good comments.  CDA nailed it, that is the applicant.  I think the section does apply.  I don't think the proposed "magnetic removable delineators" would meet the condition that a vehicle couldn't pass under them.  They don't show a head knocker, which I think is a more effective deterrent, though still not sure it would meet that standard.  The canopy is separated from the building.  I will need to consider the energy implications, frankly I didn't think about that, and am not too concerned.  I will look more into the clearance requirements, as well as the sprinkler question.  They also just revised the design to not include them.





How high is the drive thru, clearance for vehicles??

Patios have heaters all the time!!

If the canopy is not connected to the building, no fire sprinkler protection required.


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## Sifu (Jul 8, 2020)

10'2" total height.  7'5 to the bottom of the fan, 8' to the bottom of the heater, per the drawings.  My truck with the rack would take them both out if I didn't see the "delineator", or if they provided a head knocker and I ignored it.  I also wonder how planning will take this, the lines at these places are already causing traffic back-ups.


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## cda (Jul 8, 2020)

Sifu said:


> 10'2" total height.  7'5 to the bottom of the fan, 8' to the bottom of the heater, per the drawings.  My truck with the rack would take them both out if I didn't see the "delineator", or if they provided a head knocker and I ignored it.  I also wonder how planning will take this, the lines at these places are already causing traffic back-ups.



Yep

We are in the wrong business


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## Sifu (Jul 8, 2020)

I researched the heater and found a minimum clearance to combustibles is 9', also says 9' is minimum "recommended" for comfort.  Diagrams show the minimum clearance to combustibles is the floor to ceiling distance, with no mention of clearance to objects sitting on the floor, such as a combustible table, car, or fast food worker.


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## steveray (Jul 8, 2020)

You are allowed to heat the outdoors as long as it is radiant...The occ sensors are newish...

C403.2.13 Heating outside a building. Systems installed to
provide heat outside a building shall be radiant systems.
Such heating systems shall be controlled by an occupancy
sensing device or a timer switch, so that the system is automatically
deenergized when no occupants are present.


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## Sifu (Jul 8, 2020)

Thank you STEVERAY, I was headed into that book next, you saved me some searching.


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## cda (Jul 28, 2020)

Just happen to drive by neighbor ahj


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## ICE (Jul 28, 2020)

cda said:


> Just happen to drive by neighbor ahj
> 
> 
> View attachment 6810
> ...


I am not sure why there is a heater over a car in a drive-thru. And ditto the fans.  The fans appear to have come with an attachment plug on a long power cord.


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## cda (Jul 28, 2020)

ICE said:


> I am not sure why there is a heater over a car in a drive-thru. And ditto the fans.  The fans appear to have come with an attachment plug on a long power cord.




To keep the Cow warm in winter and cool in summer


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## classicT (Jul 28, 2020)

cda said:


> Just happen to drive by neighbor ahj
> 
> 
> View attachment 6810
> ...


Appears that the heaters are in-line with the columns supporting the canopy. This would provide impact protection in my opinion.


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## steveray (Jul 29, 2020)

ICE said:


> I am not sure why there is a heater over a car in a drive-thru. And ditto the fans.  The fans appear to have come with an attachment plug on a long power cord.



Maybe 6'...


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## ADAguy (Jul 29, 2020)

Amazing! as to why.


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## Sifu (Jul 30, 2020)

Ty J. said:


> Appears that the heaters are in-line with the columns supporting the canopy. This would provide impact protection in my opinion.


My drawings don't really show them in line with the columns like this.  They are providing head-knockers too.  Otherwise this is the exact setup only mine isn't a dual lane, which might help with traffic.  Not sure if planning approved them or not.


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