# 1 or two accessible entrance?



## Rick18071 (Feb 6, 2013)

Change of occupancy M to B in an exsiting building with apartment upstairs. They are planing to build a ramp at the front door entrance but leaving steps at rear entrance. Also complete alteration of layout; store to denest office. 2012 IBC & 2009 ANSI

3411.4.2 complete change of occupancy: 1. at least one accessible entrance

But this isn't a complete change of occupancy because nothing is being changed with the apartment upstairs.

3411.4.1 Partial change in occupancy; sends you to 3411.6 (Alterations) which tells you do go by chapter 11. 1105.1 tells you that 60% of entrances are required to be accessible. So do does the rear entrance need to be accessible.

What am I missing? Whay would a complete change in occupancy need only one accessble entrance but a partial need 60%. Seems backwards to me.


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 6, 2013)

Is the rear entrance a "public entrance" or is it restricted to employees, deliveries or is it just a required 2nd exit?

PUBLIC ENTRANCE. An entrance that is not a service entrance or a restricted entrance


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## Codegeek (Feb 6, 2013)

Is the rear entrance considered to be a public entrance?  If not, then I believe that only the front entrance must be accessible.


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## steveray (Feb 6, 2013)

Don't forget the details if they are not going to be 100%

SECTION 1110 SIGNAGE

1110.1 Signs.

Required accessible elements shall be identified by the International Symbol of Accessibility at the following locations:

1. Accessible parking spaces required by Section 1106.1 except where the total number of parking spaces provided is four or less.

2. Accessible passenger loading zones.

3. Accessible areas of refuge required by Section 1007.6.

4. Accessible rooms where multiple single-user toilet or bathing rooms are clustered at a single location.

5. Accessible entrances where not all entrances are accessible.

6. Accessible check-out aisles where not all aisles are accessible. The sign, where provided, shall be above the check-out aisle in the same location as the check-out aisle number or type of check-out identification.

7. Unisex toilet and bathing rooms.

8. Accessible dressing, fitting and locker rooms where not all such rooms are accessible.

1110.2 Directional signage.

Directional signage indicating the route to the nearest like accessible element shall be provided at the following locations. These directional signs shall include the International Symbol of Accessibility:

1. Inaccessible building entrances.

2. Inaccessible public toilets and bathing facilities.

3. Elevators not serving an accessible route.

4. At each separate-sex toilet and bathing room indicating the location of the nearest unisex toilet or bathing room where provided in accordance with Section 1109.2.1.

5. At exits and elevators serving a required accessible space, but not providing an approved accessible means of egress, signage shall be provided in accordance with Section 1007.7.


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## Rick18071 (Feb 7, 2013)

The rear entrance will be a public entrance


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## mark handler (Feb 7, 2013)

Where it is technically infeasible to comply with the new construction standards for any of the requirements ... shall conform to the requirements to the maximum extent technically feasible. 3411.4.2 IBC 2009


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## mark handler (Feb 7, 2013)

According to the DOJ, The fact that adding accessibility features during an alteration may increase costs does not mean compliance is technically infeasible. Cost is not to be considered.


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## Rick18071 (Feb 7, 2013)

The rear door could be made accessible very easily. So since it is a partial change of occupancy both doors need to be accessible (3411.4.1). But since this is full change in occupancy it wouldonly need one accessible entrance acording to 3411.4.2

What am I missing? Whay would a complete change in occupancy need only one accessble entrance but a partial need 60%. Seems backwards to me.


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## mark handler (Feb 7, 2013)

60% is greater than one. Make both accessible.


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 7, 2013)

Who uses the rear entrance? The general public the upstairs tenants? If it is an easy fix to eliminate the staep then just do it if not then change it from public to restricted.

RESTRICTED ENTRANCE. An entrance that is made available for common use on a controlled basis, but not public use, and that is not a service entrance


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## mark handler (Feb 7, 2013)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Who uses the rear entrance?


A disabled person in a fire.....

A person coming in from the rear parking lot.


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## steveray (Feb 7, 2013)

Apparently the code does not care about disabled people in a fire.....in "existing" construction....



			
				mark handler said:
			
		

> A disabled person in a fire.....A person coming in from the rear parking lot.


3409.5 Alterations.

A building, facility or element that is altered shall comply with the applicable provisions in Chapter 11 and ICC A117.1, unless technically infeasible. Where compliance with this section is technically infeasible, the alteration shall provide access to the maximum extent technically feasible.

Exceptions:

1. The altered element or space is not required to be on an accessible route, unless required by Section 3409.6.

2. Accessible means of egress required by Chapter 10 are not required to be provided in existing buildings and facilities.

3409.3 Change of occupancy.

Existing buildings, or portions thereof, that undergo a change of group or occupancy shall have all of the following accessible features:

1. At least one accessible building entrance.

2. At least one accessible route from an accessible building entrance to primary function areas.

3. Signage complying with Section 1110.

4. Accessible parking, where parking is being provided.

5. At least one accessible passenger loading zone, when loading zones are provided.

6. At least one accessible route connecting accessible parking and accessible passenger loading zones to an accessible entrance.

Where it is technically infeasible to comply with the new construction standards for any of these requirements for a change of group or occupancy, the above items shall conform to the requirements to the maximum extent technically feasible. Change of group or occupancy that incorporates any alterations or additions shall comply with this section and Sections 3409.4, 3409.5, 3409.6 and 3409.7.

3409.4 Additions.


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## mark handler (Feb 7, 2013)

steveray said:
			
		

> ... Where compliance with this section is technically infeasible, the alteration shall provide access to the maximum extent technically feasible.
> 
> ...Where it is technically infeasible to comply with the new construction standards for any of these requirements for a change of group or occupancy, the above items shall conform to the requirements to the maximum extent technically feasible. Change of group or occupancy that incorporates any alterations or additions shall comply with this section and Sections 3409.4, 3409.5, 3409.6 and 3409.7.
> 
> 3409.4 Additions.


.....    ,,


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## steveray (Feb 7, 2013)

2. Accessible means of egress required by Chapter 10 are not required to be provided in existing buildings and facilities.

And MOE is not covered in the 6 requirements for COO.......I don't agree...but it is what it says....


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## Rick18071 (Feb 7, 2013)

So it this was full change of occupancy would only need the front door to be accessible?

Rear door goes to parking lot that has one van accessible space. There is an accessible route around building to front door on the sidewalk. This building is on a corner city block with street parking also.


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## lunatick (Mar 5, 2013)

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> So it this was full change of occupancy would only need the front door to be accessible?Rear door goes to parking lot that has one van accessible space. There is an accessible route around building to front door on the sidewalk. This building is on a corner city block with street parking also.


Before this post I had one question. That is changed a bit by this.

Do all of the spaces contained have access to the front door?

If yes, then it is possible second door does not have to be made accessible by ramp. It could be done via accessible stairs. Not all have to be accessible.

If no, then it would be hard to exempt this.

Now this post. typically these need to be located close to the accessible entrances. I think there is a travel distance requirement etc.

So is the rear entrance serving all areas of the building?

Is there opportunity for parking in the front or closer to the front?


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## Rick18071 (Apr 24, 2013)

1 or two accessible entrance?

I'm only talking about entrances. Accessible stairs are for egress. Existing buildings don't need accessible egress.

Both entrances go into B. Upstairs apartment has separate entrance.

Don't know if there is street parking.

Again, why does a partial change need 60% accessible entrances but a full change only needs one?


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## Francis Vineyard (Jun 18, 2013)

A partial change of occupancy does not mandate an entrance be made accessible; it is alterations effecting areas containing primary functions that applies towards an increase in accessibility as applicable. Accessible entrance shall be provided when a complete change of occupancy takes place and 60% comes into play with alterations.

*3411.4.1 Partial change in occupancy.*

Where a portion of the building is changed to a new occupancy classification, any _alterations _shall comply with :Next('./icod_ibc_2012_34_par056.htm')'>Sections 3411.6, :Next('./icod_ibc_2012_34_par057.htm')'>3411.7 and :Next('./icod_ibc_2012_34_par058.htm')'>3411.8.

*3411.4.2 Complete change of occupancy.*

Where an entire building undergoes a change of occupancy, it shall comply with Section 3411.4.1 and shall have all of the following _accessible _features:

1. At least one _accessible _building entrance.

*3411.8 Scoping for alterations.*

The provisions of :Next('./icod_ibc_2012_34_par059.htm')'>Sections 3411.8.1 through :Next('./icod_ibc_2012_34_par072.htm')'>3411.8.14 shall apply to _alterations _to existing buildings and facilities.

*3411.8.1 Entrances.*

_Accessible _entrances shall be provided in accordance with :Next('./icod_ibc_2012_11_par029.htm')'>Section 1105.

*Exception: *Where an _alteration _includes alterations to an entrance, and the _facility _has an _accessible _entrance, the altered entrance is not required to be _accessible_, unless required by :Next('./icod_ibc_2012_34_par057.htm')'>Section 3411.7. Signs complying with :Next('./icod_ibc_2012_11_par169.htm')'>Section 1110 shall be provided.

Commentary: "The exception allows for nonaccessible entrances to remain as such unless the entrance serves as the accessible route to the primary function space. The building has both accessible and nonaccessible entrances, appropriate signage must be provided so that people using mobility aids know where they can enter."

Francis


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