# Brain Tease: Fire hatch between floors



## jar546 (Feb 1, 2011)

There is a maintenance hatch between floors which are a fire rated assembly.  The hatch is in the normally open position for routine maintenance and will close via a fusible link.

The architect specified this fusible link.

http://globetechnologies.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15&products_id=84

Is this link acceptable?


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## Coug Dad (Feb 1, 2011)

How  many floors are connected?


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## FM William Burns (Feb 1, 2011)

Are there detection/acuation links on both sides of the assembly?


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## jar546 (Feb 1, 2011)

Coug Dad said:
			
		

> How  many floors are connected?


Not relevant for the answer.


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## jar546 (Feb 1, 2011)

FM William Burns said:
			
		

> Are there detection/acuation links on both sides of the assembly?


Yes but that still won't affect the answer


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## Coug Dad (Feb 1, 2011)

Sorry, the number of floors connected is relavent to the question!  As is the construction type of the building


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## jar546 (Feb 1, 2011)

Coug Dad said:
			
		

> Sorry, the number of floors connected is relavent to the question!  As is the construction type of the building


It is a rated assembly that is required with an opening that is required to close via a fusible link.

I think you are going in the wrong direction with this one...................


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## Coug Dad (Feb 1, 2011)

If it only connects two floors, then neither the hatch nor the links could not even be required.  The fact that the hatch and link are there does not mean it is required.


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## jar546 (Feb 1, 2011)

Coug Dad said:
			
		

> If it only connects two floors, then neither the hatch nor the links could not even be required.  The fact that the hatch and link are there does not mean it is required.


You are definitely going in the wrong direction.  We are telling you that hypothetically it is required to be there and it is required to close.  The answer is based on that.......

I will even go as far as telling you that it is an existing installation with fusible links


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## Coug Dad (Feb 1, 2011)

Why it is there, the number of floors connected, the construction type of the building, and possibly even the occupancy, all may contribute to the requirements as to how the hatch closes.


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## High Desert (Feb 1, 2011)

Okay, I'll bite. I looks fine to me.


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## cda (Feb 1, 2011)

if it is in a rated assembly

then the opening protection would have to be Listed for it

and if already listed should already have fusible link or other apporved closing device as part of the tested assembly

Would not approve someone buying a fusible link off the shelf and retro fitting to an opening protection!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## cda (Feb 1, 2011)

never mind found it under doors

I give up under which drop down to the left of the link you provided did they dig this link up under???????????

Restaurant & Industrial Fire Protection Systems

Model A Fusible LinkModel K Fusible LinkModel ML Fusible LinkSee All Models

Fire Doors & Windows

Model B Fusible LinkModel D Fusible LinkModel EA Fusible LinkModel K Fusible LinkSee All Models

Fire Dampers

Model EA Fusible LinkModel G Fusible LinkModel GS Fusible LinkModel J Fusible LinkModel JS Fusible LinkSee All Models

Fire & Smoke Dampers

Flow RestrictorModel EFL Fusible LinkModel PFV Fusible ValveSee All Models

Parts Washers &

Dipping Tanks

Fusible ChainFusible LoopFusible Copper TubeModel G Fusible LinkModel J Fusible LinkSee All Models

Sign Hanger

Model CS Fusible Link

AC & Refrigeration Systems

Fusible Plug

Fire Safety Valves

Model A Fusible LinkModel B Fusible LinkModel EA Fusible LinkModel K Fusible LinkSee All Models

Hydraulic & Electrical Automatic Shut Down


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## jar546 (Feb 1, 2011)

OK we are going in the wrong direction.

Did anyone read IFC 704.2 ?


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## cda (Feb 1, 2011)

of course not  does it say no fusible links??


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## Coug Dad (Feb 1, 2011)

704.2 takes it lead from Table 704.1 which addresses occupancy and number of floors connected.


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## jar546 (Feb 1, 2011)

Yeah I know that but that was not part of the question.  I was telling you that the protective opening was required to be there.  No reason to even go in that direction as the info was already provided.  Nevermind.............

Us code geeks always have to read into everything don't we??


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 1, 2011)

If this is a new building IFC 704.2 does not apply. See the scoping provisions of IFC chapter 7 "New buildings shall comply with the International Building Code ".

2009 IBC

712.1 General.

Floor and roof assemblies required to have a fire-resistance rating shall comply with this section.

712.3.2 Access doors.

Access doors shall be permitted in ceilings of fire-resistance-rated floor/ceiling and roof/ceiling assemblies provided such doors are tested in accordance with ASTM E 119 or UL 263 as horizontal assemblies and labeled by an approved agency for such purpose.

Unless the arch can provide a listed access door that was tested in the normaly open position (similar to horizontal fire damper or a radient ceiling damper) then I would not approve a homemade installation.


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## cda (Feb 1, 2011)

So what is the answer?????


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## High Desert (Feb 1, 2011)

jar's answer is it's not permitted because it exceeds the 135 degree temp rating.


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## Coug Dad (Feb 1, 2011)

jar, your mailbox is full!


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## cda (Feb 1, 2011)

if new work the fusable link should not be permitted?????????????????


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## High Desert (Feb 1, 2011)

Here's the answer. Jar's fusible link exceeded the 135 degrees.

704.2 Opening protectives. When openings are required to be

protected, opening protectives shall be maintained self-closing

or automatic-closing by smoke detection. Existing fusible-

link-type automatic door-closing devices are permitted if

the *fusible link rating does not exceed 135ºF (57ºC).*


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## jar546 (Feb 1, 2011)

High Desert said:
			
		

> Here's the answer. Jar's fusible link exceeded the 135 degrees.704.2 Opening protectives. When openings are required to be
> 
> protected, opening protectives shall be maintained self-closing
> 
> ...


Thank you, it's what I was shooting for


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## cda (Feb 1, 2011)

""""There is a maintenance hatch between floors which are a fire rated assembly. The hatch is in the normally open position for routine maintenance and will close via a fusible link.

The architect specified this fusible link.

http://globetechnologies.com/catalog...products_id=84

Is this link acceptable? """"""""

if an architect is invovled I kind of take it as new construction, so is a fusable link door allowed in new construction????????


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 1, 2011)

704.2 *Opening protectives. *When openings are required to beprotected, opening protectives_shall _be maintained self-closing or automatic-closing by smoke detection. Existing fus­ible-link-type automatic door-closing devices are permittedif the fusible link rating does not exceed 135°F (57°C).

Commentary

•:•This section requires that fire door assemblies pro­vided for protection of openings in vertical enclosures be self-closing or automatic-closing in order to main­tain the integrity of the vertical opening enclosure. This section also recognizes that some opening protectives in existing buildings may already be equipped with heat-actuated closing devices rather than the smoke-detector-actuated devices otherwise required by the section. Such devices are allowed to continue in service, provided that the temperature rating of their fusible element _is as low as __is _available [i.e., 135°F (57°C)] to provide the fastest possible operation in the event of a fire. In the event that an existing fusible link on an opening protective is rated higher than the maxi­mum 135°F (57°C) allowed by this section, it would need to be removed and the door maintained as self-closing or be replaced with a smoke-detector-ac­tuated closer in accordance with this section. New opening protectives must comply with Section 715 of the IBC and closing devices with Section 715.4.8 of the IBC. See the commentary to those sections for further information.

Like I said IFC 704.2 is not for new construction



> if an architect is invovled I kind of take it as new construction, so is a fusable link door allowed in new construction????????


I thought he was refering to new construction that is why I posted the way I did. NO a fusible link is not allowed unless it is part of the listing for the access door


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## fireguy (Feb 2, 2011)

https://www.globetechnologies.com/model-b-fusible-link.php

A 135°F link is available, but is not FM listed.   Is FM listing needed for this application?  My concern is using a 165°F link with 155°F sprinklers.  What is the temp of the installed sprinklers, assuming there are sprinklers.

https://www.globetechnologies.com/fusible-links.php  The model K & ML are also listed for 135°F temps and are much more readily available.  The k and ML links are the same length as the B link. However, the K & ML links have higher weight limitations.

Have you contacted the architect?


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## jar546 (Feb 2, 2011)

fireguy said:
			
		

> https://www.globetechnologies.com/model-b-fusible-link.phpA 135°F link is available, but is not FM listed.   Is FM listing needed for this application?  My concern is using a 165°F link with 155°F sprinklers.  What is the temp of the installed sprinklers, assuming there are sprinklers.
> 
> https://www.globetechnologies.com/fusible-links.php  The model K & ML are also listed for 135°F temps and are much more readily available.  The k and ML links are the same length as the B link. However, the K & ML links have higher weight limitations.
> 
> Have you contacted the architect?


This is an exercise for the forum, not an actual situation.  Thank you for the research and input.


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## FM William Burns (Feb 2, 2011)

Doah............ now I'll perform better the next teaser............. Jeu guiese, pretty


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