# Adding fourth unit to Apartment house



## Gary Holiday (Oct 17, 2019)

I live in Michigan and my city follows the *2015 Michigan Building Code*

I currently own a house that is split into three apartments. One of the units has a basement attachment that I want to split into a new unit. However, my house was grandfathered in and currently does not require a sprinkler system. When talking with the zoning department in my city, he said adding another unit would require me to add a sprinkler system in the entire house.


Do I really need to add an entire sprinkler system because I split a unit? (Basement unit has an egress window).
If a sprinkler system is required, is there anything alternative I can do? It is basically impossible to add a sprinkler system throughout the entire house.


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## jar546 (Oct 17, 2019)

1) Yes
2) Not impossible, just expensive.


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## cda (Oct 17, 2019)

Gary Holiday said:


> I live in Michigan and my city follows the *2015 Michigan Building Code*
> 
> I currently own a house that is split into three apartments. One of the units has a basement attachment that I want to split into a new unit. However, my house was grandfathered in and currently does not require a sprinkler system. When talking with the zoning department in my city, he said adding another unit would require me to add a sprinkler system in the entire house.
> 
> ...




Yes if the city says it is required


Call about three companies to give you bids.

You may find out it is easier than you think.!!!



This is the price of doing business.

Also check with your insurance company to see if they give you a reduction on insurance.


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## steveray (Oct 17, 2019)

CT has exceptions for up to 4 units in an existing building non-sprinklered....Check you local code, talk to your building/ fire departments.


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## e hilton (Oct 17, 2019)

Would that trigger anything else, like addition parking spaces?


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## Rick18071 (Oct 17, 2019)

e hilton said:


> Would that trigger anything else, like addition parking spaces?



Not in the building code. This is a local zoning issue.


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## fatboy (Oct 17, 2019)

jar has it right, around my neck of the woods anyway.


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## e hilton (Oct 17, 2019)

Rick ... i wasn’t specifically referring to the building code, but sometimes there are additional scope creep items that pop up.   Just wanted to throw out one possibility.


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## Gary Holiday (Oct 18, 2019)

e hilton said:


> Rick ... i wasn’t specifically referring to the building code, but sometimes there are additional scope creep items that pop up.   Just wanted to throw out one possibility.


It would increase parking requirements, but I have more than enough space for parking. The only thing stopping it would be the sprinkler system. I guess I am going to look into that cost.

Thanks everyone.


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## cda (Oct 18, 2019)

Gary Holiday said:


> It would increase parking requirements, but I have more than enough space for parking. The only thing stopping it would be the sprinkler system. I guess I am going to look into that cost.
> 
> Thanks everyone.




Please let us know ballpark figures you get for a system

Plus if any water tap or water meter fees

They do make small water tanks and pumps, that will feed your system, and take up about the size of a closet


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## e hilton (Oct 18, 2019)

cda said:


> Plus if any water tap or water meter fees


Thats stupid.  Remember 10-ish years ago when there was a fire in a furniture store in charleston, killed several firefighters, they said sprinklers would have stopped it.  Huge brouhaha about the city not requiring sprinklers.  My sister in law owns a small building in chas, she looked into getting sprinklers after that.  City had a huge fee on top of the cost of the system, made it financially impractical.   Im sure there were many businesses in the same situation.  
I had a thought: city should waive all meter and tap fees for sprinklers, require them to have a separate meter.  Then once a year or so someone reads the meter, if it shows more gallons used than amount required for testing or drips, send a huge bill.  But otherwise no cost to the owner, and in return they avoid another disaster.


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## cda (Oct 18, 2019)

e hilton said:


> Thats stupid.  Remember 10-ish years ago when there was a fire in a furniture store in charleston, killed several firefighters, they said sprinklers would have stopped it.  Huge brouhaha about the city not requiring sprinklers.  My sister in law owns a small building in chas, she looked into getting sprinklers after that.  City had a huge fee on top of the cost of the system, made it financially impractical.   Im sure there were many businesses in the same situation.
> I had a thought: city should waive all meter and tap fees for sprinklers, require them to have a separate meter.  Then once a year or so someone reads the meter, if it shows more gallons used than amount required for testing or drips, send a huge bill.  But otherwise no cost to the owner, and in return they avoid another disaster.




We do not charge, except for a electric transmitter, that water dept can drive by and check for usage


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## fatboy (Oct 18, 2019)

We only charge the tapping fee, about $400...…...


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## Rick18071 (Oct 18, 2019)

e hilton said:


> I had a thought: city should waive all meter and tap fees for sprinklers, require them to have a separate meter.



So who should pay for it, tax payers or other water service customers?


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## cda (Oct 18, 2019)

Rick18071 said:


> So who should pay for it, tax payers or other water service customers?




Maybe if the city is doing the tap, the building owner

If the owner is doing the tap the owner

We have the owner pay for an electric transmitter

But as for the water just setting there, why should there be much more money involved???


Saves the city on firefighting costs in the long run.


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## e hilton (Oct 18, 2019)

fatboy said:


> We only charge the tapping fee, about $400...…...


If i recall ... getting up in years ... sis said the city fee (not the installation cost) was around $10k.  
I can see the property owner paying the actual labor charge, but what they were asking was way above that.  And for a city that made national news because of the deaths of the firemen, you would think they would be looking for solutions.


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## e hilton (Oct 18, 2019)

Found it on the city site.  Cost is a function if size.  For a 2” meter, the actual tap fee is $2,200 but on top of that is an “impact fee” of $16,000.  

That really encourages building owners to add a huge safety factor to their property.


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## cda (Oct 18, 2019)

e hilton said:


> Found it on the city site.  Cost is a function if size.  For a 2” meter, the actual tap fee is $2,200 but on top of that is an “impact fee” of $16,000.
> 
> That really encourages building owners to add a huge safety factor to their property.




For water that just sets there most of the time.

Guess just have to educate the city, just like educating them that not every sprinkler goes off, Hollywood and politics great promoters.


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## Paul Sweet (Oct 22, 2019)

Some jurisdictions allow the next larger meter size for the same price on a sprinklered residence.  Unfortunately, most don't.  Availability, impact, or similar fees can vary wildly, and some can be outrageous.


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## e hilton (Oct 22, 2019)

Paul Sweet said:


> Some jurisdictions allow the next larger meter size for the same price on a sprinklered residence. .


That might not be a good deal.  When i lived in south texas we had 2 meters, one for domestic use and one for landscape irrigation.  Cost of water was the same, but the irrigation use didn’t get the sewer surcharge.


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## John Callaghan (Nov 4, 2020)

Yes, you need to add a sprinkler system.


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## ADAguy (Nov 4, 2020)

Missed this early on, as an addition you now have crossed the line of 4 units. A ground floor unit must be accessible (from the sidewalk/street to its entrance) and adaptable per FHA/HUD & code.


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## ADAguy (Nov 6, 2020)

Seems we have lost him?


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## ADAguy (Nov 9, 2020)

Still lost him? Doesn't like our answers?


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## ADAguy (Nov 12, 2020)

ADAguy said:


> Still lost him? Doesn't like our answers?


Guess he is still in mourning or wants to bootleg it?


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## ADAguy (Nov 23, 2020)

Still on "holiday"? Not concerned about FHA/HUD in your state?


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