# ADA Compliant Restaurant Bathrooms



## fiasco (Jan 29, 2020)

I am doing autocad for a building expansion of my restaurant/bar.  I am wanting to have open vestibules and I'm basing the design off of the following PDF.

https://www.bobrick.com/wp-content/uploads/PlanningGuide.pdf

For the open vestibules I am looking at diagram Fig 3c Open Vestibule on page 5 which lists a 32" minimum entry opening into the vestibule and 42" minimum width for the first turn.  I am at a 42" entry opening and 48" for the first turn.


I have linked my preliminary autocad drawing below.   Yellow dashed rectangles/circles represent clear floorspace requirements (circle 60" turn radius, rectangle 30"x48" clear floor space).   ADA required grab bars/ect are not on the print.

I am open to suggestions or corrections!


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## e hilton (Jan 29, 2020)

Are the red rectangles ... baby changers?   In the womens room i would pull the sinks forward about 2 ft so the are not recessed so far.


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## fiasco (Jan 29, 2020)

Yes the red rect's are baby changers.


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## north star (Jan 29, 2020)

*@ ~ @ ~@ ~ @*

Nice CAD drawing !.....Easily understandable............For
"agreed upon compliancy", ...I would include a compliant
Turning Radius in each of the Accessible toilet stalls.

Is one of the Urinals ADA compliant ?.......In the Women's
Restroom, the Lav's seem "boxed in", while the Men's Lav's
have more maneuverability.......Do the Women's Lav's provide
sufficient Accessibility space.......*REASON:*  Typically,
women tend to spend more time at the Lav's & Mirrors.

Just sayin'...

*@ ~ @ ~ @ ~ @*


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## fiasco (Jan 29, 2020)

e hilton said:


> Are the red rectangles ... baby changers?   In the womens room i would pull the sinks forward about 2 ft so the are not recessed so far.



This is actually a very good idea as it gives me a good place for an HVAC/Mechanical Chase.   Done

https://i.imgur.com/GgZMM8z.jpg


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## fiasco (Jan 29, 2020)




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## fiasco (Jan 29, 2020)

north star said:


> *@ ~ @ ~@ ~ @*
> 
> Nice CAD drawing !.....Easily understandable............For
> "agreed upon compliancy", ...I would include a compliant
> ...



There is more than enough space in the ADA stalls for a free 60" turn radius.  30" x 48" free clear floor space is required by ADA and is represented by the dashed boxes around the lav's and the urinals.


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## e hilton (Jan 30, 2020)

If you need another small chase, you could chamfer the corners of the vestibule.  Like the upper left corner of the womens room.


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## ADAguy (Jan 30, 2020)

be wary of urinal center lines adjacent to side walls longer than 24", 18" min. req'd; same with lavs.

Don't forget to address accessory mounting heights and locations.
Note that all dimensions are to "face of finishes", what is your wall finish to be?
Must be smooth, hard and non-absorbent (as in water resistant) adjacent to urinals, lavs, & WC's.


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## JPohling (Jan 30, 2020)

ADAguy said:


> be wary of urinal center lines adjacent to side walls longer than 24", 18" min. req'd; same with lavs.
> 
> .


Both side walls greater than 24"  single side wall not a problem, at least that's my take.


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## Builder Bob (Jan 31, 2020)

What ICC ANSI is adopted in your region? SC required 67" turning radius - FYI
Also different size water closet clearances are required for floor mount or wall mount water closets - use the larger clear space required and this won't ever be an issue.


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## Yikes (Jan 31, 2020)

It is important to state what jurisdiction you are located in, and to make sure you are following all applicable codes, not just ADA.  For example, in California we have added this requirement onto the usual ADA standards:


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## JPohling (Jan 31, 2020)

Yikes said:


> It is important to state what jurisdiction you are located in, and to make sure you are following all applicable codes, not just ADA.  For example, in California we have added this requirement onto the usual ADA standards:
> View attachment 6400


Fully agree with the stipulation that the jurisdiction is extremely important to understand,  but not sure what you mean about the CBC added requirement for 18" to CL from sidewall, as that has been in Chapter 11 for over 10 years.


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## Yikes (Jan 31, 2020)

JPohling said:


> Fully agree with the stipulation that the jurisdiction is extremely important to understand,  but not sure what you mean about the CBC added requirement for 18" to CL from sidewall, as that has been in Chapter 11 for over 10 years.



I mean that it is shown in italics in the CBC, which means it was modified (added) beyond what normally appears in the same section in ADAS.

The original poster only mentioned a Bobrick pdf and the ADA as possible sources of design standards.  In that context, if his project was in California the 18" to CL would be an added requirement to his current sources for design standards.


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## ADAguy (Jan 31, 2020)

it says 17 - 18" in CA, not 18"


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## Yikes (Feb 3, 2020)

ADAguy said:


> it says 17 - 18" in CA, not 18"


Please read the actual CBC excerpt for lavatories, shown in post #12.


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## JPohling (Feb 3, 2020)

ADAguy said:


> it says 17 - 18" in CA, not 18"


Lav's not WC


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## Yikes (Feb 3, 2020)

JPohling said:


> Lav's not WC


Which is exactly my original point.  The OP showed 5' for 2 lavs, and it graphically showed them evenly spaced with a 30"x48" space at the lav, such that both lavs were 15" from CL of wall.  But if this were in CA, he would need 18" from CL of at least one lav, which is analogous to a 33"x48 chair space.


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## fiasco (Apr 5, 2020)

State is Illinois

The existing bathrooms are gutted.  New addition excavated and footings poured.   We were also able to squeeze an additional 16" of depth on the foundation for the new addition that will hold the bathrooms.

Toilets in the bathrooms are wall mounted.  Added void between bathrooms for the back to back toilet wall mounting brackets.  Auto flushers are flush mounted in walls above toilets


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## JPohling (Apr 6, 2020)

not an Illinois guy but here in CA the accessible toilet compartment panel that has the hinge on it can be no wider than 4"


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## e hilton (Apr 6, 2020)

JPohling said:


> can be no wider than 4"


What’s the logic for that?   
Do the urinals need partitions?


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## JPohling (Apr 6, 2020)

e hilton said:


> What’s the logic for that?
> Do the urinals need partitions?


Well logic?  is that in the code?  The real logic is for end opening stalls so that the door is diagonally opposite the WC.  That is how they control that the stall door is tight to one side.
For side opening stalls the code requirement still stands but it is "not logical".  We have had very long stalls with side entry and would like to use a larger panel like the one shown in the plan but it is not code compliant per CBC figure 11B-604.8.1.2.


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## fiasco (Apr 6, 2020)

Trivial fix, i will update my autocad


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## fiasco (Apr 8, 2020)




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## JPohling (Apr 8, 2020)

Do you account for finishes on the walls in the accessible 5'-0" wide compartments?  give yourself some play.
Urinal screens?
I would rotate the baby changer in the men's.
And check code for baby changer in women's, seems as if the wheelchair space is blocking access to rest of RR
Also door D1 outside does not appear to have 12" push side if door has latch and closer.


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## e hilton (Apr 8, 2020)

Looking at you floor plan remind me of a pet peeve of mine.  And nothing can be done about it.  For the non-accessible terlet stalls, the doos swing in ... where is a body supposed to stand to allow the door to swing?   And if you’re in an airport, where do you put your bag?


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## classicT (Apr 8, 2020)

e hilton said:


> Looking at you floor plan remind me of a pet peeve of mine.  And nothing can be done about it.  For the non-accessible terlet stalls, the doos swing in ... where is a body supposed to stand to allow the door to swing?   And if you’re in an airport, where do you put your bag?


I agree, this is bad practice... but it also the most common configuration and it's permitted.


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## mark handler (Apr 9, 2020)

e hilton said:


> Do the urinals need partitions?


IPC 2015 Section 405.3.5 Urinal partitions.
Each urinal utilized by the public or employees shall occupy a separate area with walls or partitions to provide privacy. The walls or partitions shall begin at a height not greater than 12 inches (305 mm) from and extend not less than 60 inches (1524 mm) above the finished floor surface. The walls or partitions shall extend from the wall surface at each side of the urinal not less than 18 inches (457 mm) or to a point not less than 6 inches (152 mm) beyond the outermost front lip of the urinal measured from the finished backwall surface, whichever is greater.

_By the way, the clear measurement is from face of material not centerline of partition_


_And if project is under UPC, like California, partitions not required by code_


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## mark handler (Apr 9, 2020)

And be carful some states have potty parity codes:
"The total number of required water closets for females shall be not less than the total number of required water closets and urinals for males."

*Note:
Says  required, not provided*


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## e hilton (Apr 9, 2020)

mark handler said:


> *Note:
> Says  required, not provided*


Why wouldn’t it be the same number?  

I remember way back in the dark ages ... ‘60s ... high school soccer team on a road trip.  Ate at a small restaurant, potty stop on the way out.  The partitions at the urinal were so close together both elbows were touching.


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## ADAguy (Apr 9, 2020)

Ty J. said:


> I agree, this is bad practice... but it also the most common configuration and it's permitted.


May be permitted but bad practice. People are bigger every year (smiling).


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## ADAguy (Apr 9, 2020)

mark handler said:


> IPC 2015 Section 405.3.5 Urinal partitions.
> Each urinal utilized by the public or employees shall occupy a separate area with walls or partitions to provide privacy. The walls or partitions shall begin at a height not greater than 12 inches (305 mm) from and extend not less than 60 inches (1524 mm) above the finished floor surface. The walls or partitions shall extend from the wall surface at each side of the urinal not less than 18 inches (457 mm) or to a point not less than 6 inches (152 mm) beyond the outermost front lip of the urinal measured from the finished backwall surface, whichever is greater.
> 
> _By the way, the clear measurement is from face of material not centerline of partition_
> ...


Yes Mark and the wall surfaces are to be of impact and water resistant finishes


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## mark handler (Apr 9, 2020)

e hilton said:


> Why wouldn’t it be the same number?
> 
> I remember way back in the dark ages ... ‘60s ... high school soccer team on a road trip.  Ate at a small restaurant, potty stop on the way out.  The partitions at the urinal were so close together both elbows were touching.


Required is not always what occurs in the field. sometimes additional facilities and additional fixtures are provided.


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## mark handler (Apr 9, 2020)

ADAguy said:


> Yes Mark and the wall surfaces are to be of impact and water resistant finishes


Says whom? Should? per book specs? or Code?


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## ADAguy (Apr 10, 2020)

mark handler said:


> Says whom? Should? per book specs? or Code?


Yes Mr Code, its in CBC


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## e hilton (Apr 10, 2020)

mark handler said:


> sometimes additional facilities and additional fixtures are provided.


Ahh.  I was reading it the other way, assuming they provided only what was required.  

Wait a minute!    You mean some people actually build beyond code?


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## mark handler (Apr 11, 2020)

ADAguy said:


> Yes Mr Code, its in CBC


I know CBC chapter 12 talks of moisture-resistant, but where is *impact-resistant?*
CBC 1607.15 Interior walls and partitions that exceed 6 feet...not that one....


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## mp25 (Apr 12, 2020)

The Illinois accessibility code requires that the partition provide a toe clearance at the side partition of 9" in high, and 6" deep beyond the compartment side face exclusive of the partition support members (unless the width of the compartment is increased to 66"). So just make sure that your partition does not go all the way to the floor.


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## JPohling (Apr 13, 2020)

mp25 said:


> The Illinois accessibility code requires that the partition provide a toe clearance at the side partition of 9" in high, and 6" deep beyond the compartment side face exclusive of the partition support members (unless the width of the compartment is increased to 66"). So just make sure that your partition does not go all the way to the floor.


MP that is also in the California Building Code as well


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## fiasco (May 13, 2020)

When I first posted this topic back in January I was formulating my plan for an addition to our building at some point in the not to distant future (two years or so).   As news starting spreading out of China, at the start of February I began warning my employees that they should cut their unnecessary spending and save money.   By mid February I was telling my employees that our industry would be the very first impacted by Sars-Cov-2 and that I believed the federal or state government would shut us down.   Mid March we were shut down.

Late February I started trying to accelerate the planning of the addition and mobilize for construction.   Tough to do when your local government starts shutting down during the process.   Late March we started construction.   At this point, the basement is poured,  joists and subfloor are in, walls set, trusses set and they have just started to install substrate panels for the roof on the trusses.

The drawing below accurately shows the as built locations of all the bathroom stud walls.

Kitchen hood, Exhaust and Return curbs, and 4 RTU bases ship on the 15th.  Once they arrive, roofing steel will start being isntalled and I should be water tight and ready to start laying tile in the bathrooms relatively quickly.

The exact model/unit toilets, sinks, urinals have not been spec'd yet but everything is wall hung.

If there's an issue with my rough framing now's the time to point it out!


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## fiasco (May 13, 2020)

Here is a PDF which would be more legible.

http://pumphousebar.com/bathrooms 5-13-20.pdf


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## ADAguy (May 13, 2020)

Ty J. said:


> I agree, this is bad practice... but it also the most common configuration and it's permitted.



bigger stalls would be better practice, given todays larger users (smiling)


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