# ​Dayton Mall requests dismissal of bus stop lawsuit



## mark handler (Mar 19, 2016)

Dayton Mall requests dismissal of bus stop lawsuit

http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/news/news/crime-law/dayton-mall-requests-dismissal-of-bus-stop-lawsuit/nqn6m/

Attorneys for the Dayton Mall have asked the courts to dismiss a lawsuit filed by a group that wants bus stops there located closer to mall entrances.

The current bus stop is located nearly two-football fields away from the mall’s entrance in the rear parking lot of Macy’s near Sears.

Ellis Jacobs is representing a group of individuals with disabilities and two organizations for people with disabilities, Advocates for Basic Legal Equality Inc., and Disability Rights Ohio. Jacobs said the location of the bus stop makes it difficult for some people to get to the mall.

“For people who have a hard time walking, or are in a wheelchair, 600 feet up a slight uphill grade is a real barrier to getting somewhere,” Jacobs said.

This news organization contacted WP Glimcher, the owner of the Dayton Mall, about to the lawsuit and the motion to dismiss. They declined an interview, citing ongoing court action.

“We do not comment on pending litigation,” said Karen Bailey, vice president of communication and marketing for WP Glimcher.

Attorneys for the Dayton Mall argue that the Americans with Disabilities Act does not obligate the mall to install bus stops, even if it is for people who are disabled, according to court documents.

Mark Theobald, 56, of Kettering said the bus stop makes him feel alienated because he has difficulties walking after a stroke.

“It takes away from the shopping experience,” Theobald said. “It feels like a barrier to entry.”

The lawsuit states the mall allowed buses to drop off shoppers at the mall entrances until it was moved in 2003. Dayton Mall representatives said moving the bus stop was not done to discriminate against shoppers.

In the motion to dismiss, Dayton Mall attorneys said: “Our clients are not unsympathetic to the shoppers and have taken other steps within the letter and spirit of the law to accommodate them, as well as mall employees with disabilities.”


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## Msradell (Mar 20, 2016)

see the post below


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## Msradell (Mar 20, 2016)

Sometimes I think a lot of these lawsuits are frivolous and ridiculous. In this case I think the lawsuit is very valid and I don't understand why the mall is opposed to moving the bus stop to make access easier for those with disabilities. It's not as if moving it to a more convenient location will harm them all in any way.  It really does seem like they are trying to discourage those with disabilities from visiting their mall.


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## conarb (Mar 20, 2016)

What about costing them money?


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 20, 2016)

It is a pain in the but for a buss to navigate most shopping centers/malls. It also cuts time out of the bus schedule. They can put in all the bus stops they want it does not mean the bus transportation company has to serve them.


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## Msradell (Mar 20, 2016)

> What about costing them money?


I'm not really sure how it would cost them anything to move the bus stop other than maybe $100 for the labor to move it! I would think the goodwill would be worth a lot more.


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## Msradell (Mar 20, 2016)

> It is a pain in the but for a buss to navigate most shopping centers/malls. It also cuts time out of the bus schedule. They can put in all the bus stops they want it does not mean the bus transportation company has to serve them.


I don't know the traffic layout in that mall but in most malls there is normally main access road that goes directly to the main entrance and that would be very easy to navigate. The question also comes down to who initially moved the bus stop, the mall or the bus company?


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 21, 2016)

A pet store on the left and Sears on the right which are the easiest drop of points for the bus driver



> Mark Theobald, 56, of Kettering said the bus stop makes him feel alienated because he has difficulties walking after a stroke.


How can he "feel" alienated when he uses the same bus stop as everyone else.Why do the Eagles keep popping up in my head? http://www.songlyrics.com/eagles/get-over-it-lyrics/
View attachment 2188


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## mark handler (Mar 21, 2016)

Path of travel


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## Paul Sweet (Mar 21, 2016)

I think that most bus companies stay on public roads.  They would probably be opening themselves up to a lot of potential liability by driving through a parking lot.


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## mark handler (Mar 21, 2016)

> I think that most bus companies stay on public roads. They would probably be opening themselves up to a lot of potential liability by driving through a parking lot.


"The lawsuit states the mall allowed buses to drop off shoppers at the mall entrances until it was moved in 2003"

They have taken away something that they once had.


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## conarb (Mar 21, 2016)

> "The lawsuit states the mall allowed buses to drop off shoppers at the mall entrances until it was moved in 2003"
> 
> They have taken away something that they once had.


Who's decision was that, the mall's, the bus companies', the insurance companies"?  I haven't been inside any malls lately but I've never seen buses in the parking lots around the malls, in fact there is a large mall down the street that I go by and the bus stops are all out on the street, probably the length of two football fields away from the mall (600 feet).


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## tmurray (Mar 21, 2016)

Does the mall have the ability to restore bus service? Our municipal transit does serve the malls directly, but I can't imagine the mall owners dictating this as a requirement. This is more based on serving the bus patrons' needs.


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 21, 2016)

Why doesn't RTA provide door to door service at the Dayton Mall?





  Dayton Mall is private property and has not given approval to RTA to provide service to the door of the mall because of the size of our fixed route buses. RTA has offered Capital Improvement funds for access improvements including benches and shelters. Dayton Mall officials have not approved our request to date.

http://www.i-riderta.org/doing-business/faq#faq-293df75b-e5e4-4649-af48-46aa31590d32

Sounds like the Mall is concerned with safety. If the mall accepts government funds for the Capital Improvements it may open up a big can of worms for them in other areas. The access improvements may trigger a parking lot redesign or on site storm water retention or any number of new regulations that have been adopted since the mall was built  in 1970. The benches and shelters who maintains them? Who liability insurance covers them? The Mall or the transit authority.  





> They have taken away something that they once had.


They where not entitled to a bus stop no more than they where entitled to have an ice cream store located in the mall. It was a service that was discontinued.


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