# Expired Permits



## Papio Bldg Dept (Sep 6, 2011)

We are currently re-examining our permit expiration and extension policies.  I am interested in hearing how other AHJs handle permits that span over several years, sometimes pushing, if not exceeding, the limits of the 180 days without work (2006 IBC 105.5 Expiration).  Please let me know if you handle residential and commercial differently.

As an example, A single family residence is in the process of having addition and remodel work performed by the home-owner.  The home-owner has been working with a limited budget and in their spare time.  As such, work has progressed slowly, with inspections often spanning outside of 180 days, for more than three years.  Concerns over exposed material degradation have been addressed, and required to be replaced.  For the most part, the homeowners have a basic understanding of construction methods required to finish the job, and appear competent.  Several formal extension requests have been granted, as the family has experienced financial and personal family setbacks, however, local residents have filed several code complaints during the process.

How would your AHJ handle a similar situation?


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## mjesse (Sep 6, 2011)

We've got one of these too. Project was permitted almost 5 years ago, and it looks like he is nearing the half-way point.

We have since enacted a 12 month expiration policy with extensions granted at the BO's discretion, only if a letter explaining the circumstances for extension is provided.

The dawdler in question is not subject to the new rules, so as long as he continues to make "progress" (not defined) he remains legal.

If you want details of the new expiration policy, I can PM them to you.

mj


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## Codegeek (Sep 6, 2011)

The jurisdiction for which I served as building official allowed for new building permits to be valid for one year, with the ability to receive one extension for up to 180 days.  After that time frame had expired, they could re-instate their permit for up to 50% of the original permit fee, which would give them essentially another 1 1/2 years to complete the project.  Very seldom did we have a circumstance in which a project lasted over 2-3 years and the average house in the jurisdiction was over 6,000 square feet.

If it was a remodel or room addition project, they had 180 days, plus the ability to extend the permit for an additional 180 days.  After that time had expired, they could re-instate the permit for additional time.


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## mtlogcabin (Sep 6, 2011)

> or if the work authorized by such permit is suspended or abandoned for a period of 180 days after the time the work is commenced.


We lost a court case about 15 years ago. The owner made a structural change to the SFR from the original plans. City gave him a stop work order at the foundation stage and required engineered drawings for the change. After 6 months the city expired the permit. 90 days after that the city was sued. The judge ruled the project was never abandoned or suspended because he was working with an engineer to produce the required drawings, He had to resubmit for the construction loan and he maintained a clean construction sight.

It is very vauge wording, unless you have a local ordinances requiring passing an inspection every xx days I would not expire a permit based on the 180 day time frame.


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## NH09 (Sep 6, 2011)

Our building permits are good for one year, and we allow two one year renewals ($25 per renewal). This gives the applicant three years to complete a project. If they go past three years, they must submit a new building permit application, pay the applicable fees, and all work that was not previously inspected and approved must meet the requirements of the code in effect at the time of reapplication.


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## brudgers (Sep 6, 2011)

Papio Bldg Dept said:
			
		

> How would your AHJ handle a similar situation?


  My advice would be, by the book. Constituent complaints are typically not part of the permitting process.


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## beach (Sep 6, 2011)

What mt said.....the local ordinance requiring an inspection after a certain number of days is a great idea because that code section IS vague. Proving abandonment or suspension can be very difficult if not impossible.


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## Mr Softy (Sep 6, 2011)

the Building Permit, once issued, is open ended so long as work is progressing.  as there is no strict definition of that, the loosest interpretation is that someone on site driving a nail would be the work progressing.  we generally don't make a fuss over the length of time a project takes.

we used the 180 day rule once to kill a project.  Owner got a permit to build a 42-unit building, with no intention of ever building the building, just selling the lot with a permit-to-build attached.  days before the permit expired (and he was given notice the permit was expiring) he went onsite and dug a trench and poured concrete into it.  Voila! - footings -  he had started his project.

except that the trench and footings had absolutely no relation to the plans for the building submitted for review.  he lost at the Appeals hearing, with him , his architect, and his code consultant all looking ridiculous.

there was a case a few years ago with a homeowner taking forever (years) to finish his house.  the city wanted his house done, took him to court, where the judge threw the guy in jail.   so he couldn't finish his house.   go figure.


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## cboboggs (Sep 6, 2011)

Our building permits expire 180 days after issuance or the last "passed" inspection (local amendment). However, I am and will continue to be generous with extensions, so long as one is requested in writing. We also send out notifications to all permit holders whose permits are about to expire. If a permit is allowed to expire, we require the submission of a new permit application and new fees based on the cost of completion of the project. Like others have stated all work that has not been inspected is required to comply with the latest adopted building code.


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## fatboy (Sep 6, 2011)

We send letters out at 5 months since last logged inspection, advising the permit is about to expire, due to inactivity. Send another at six months. We will verify that some level of activity has occured, and log a progress inspection, starting the clock all over again. If we don't get some contact after the six month letter we will make a site visit, to try and eliminate, roofs, water heaters, HVAC changeout, simple stuff. We've had good luck with this system. Yes, we've had basement finishes that took a few years to finish, but at least they did finish and were inspected along the way.


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## ewenme (Sep 6, 2011)

When I was BO for the County, we instituted a maximum of five extensions. The permit was good for 180-days, which ran from the initial permit date or the last legitimate inspection. So, work had to be really slow to require a request for extenstion. We tracked the number of extensions and every time we issued a new one, it had a number on it. With number 5, the notice was given that it was the extension, and at 180-days from the last inspection, they would have to take out a new permit for the work that remained to be finished. Worked very well. Here in the City, we give extensions, but they have to be for good reason, and I have cut people off after two years. I'm thinking of proposing the limited number to City attorney and see what his take will be on it. I hate open permits that two code cycles back... :-(


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## peach (Sep 6, 2011)

Most places I've worked in judged progress by an "inspection".. pass or fail.  Once you get into the practice of extending (and extending.. and extending) permits, it's hard to suddenly stop doing it (for the same property owner.. or any other).  Whatever you do, the ordinance needs to be specific (particularly getting an addition closed in from the weather) and STICK TO IT.  Once the addition looks like it's sorta kinda done (roofing, siding, windows)... expire the permit and require new.


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## beach (Sep 6, 2011)

Around here, the interior finish can take over a year to complete (without a required inspection).... we have to be very careful about expiring permits, because they are actually progressing.....just on the inside, where it's not as noticable.


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## mtlogcabin (Sep 6, 2011)

Expiring a permit and requiring a new one can be looked upon as just a revenue source if abused. Just extended them for a small admin fee after all completion of the project with inspections is the goal.


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## ICE (Sep 6, 2011)

I had a guy call for footing.  I get there and he had used flour to draw an outline in the yard, where the footing will be.  The first thing he says is: I'm good for another 180 days, right?  Then he says that the first item on the job card is "Location/Setbacks."  I pointed out that it's the location of the form-work and not an artist's rendering that I am to inspect.  He started to get flustered so I said: "See you in 180 days.  Perhaps we can shoot for the uffer next time out."


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## Mr Softy (Sep 6, 2011)

beach said:
			
		

> Around here, the interior finish can take over a year to complete (without a required inspection).... we have to be very careful about expiring permits, because they are actually progressing.....just on the inside, where it's not as noticable.


this.

i have one residential project ongoing that is at least a year away from completion.

and it's probably been 8 months since i signed off on an inspection.  there's been 20 workers on site every day since.  that permit is still very much alive, according to the code in effect when it was issued.  no renewal necessary, no additional fee required.


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## righter101 (Sep 13, 2011)

We have an annual renewal fee.  If work has not been "abandonded" for more than 180 days, they could renew indefinately.  We have some permits where the applicant has paid more in renewals than the original permit.

We have a lot of DIY building vacation or retirement homes, taking 10 years to do.

If they have exposed sheeting for more than a season, it seems reasonable to ask for an RDP approval, things of that nature.


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