# Live/work units



## Rick18071 (Nov 8, 2012)

Never did a plan review for a live/work unit before. Hoping someone can help me. Have a plan where a beauty salon will be put in an one story old twin house. It looks over 80 years old at least.

419.1 says its a dwelling or sleeping unit......that is operated by the tenant. I don't see anything wrong with it being in a twin house that has 2 dwelling units.

419.2 changes the unit to R-2 from R-3. Or does it change the whole building to R-2 (both sides of the twin house)?

419.5 sends you directly to 903.2.8, sprinklers..this says R-2 needs sprinklers for the work/live unit. What about the other unit

of the twin?

419.6 floor loading. Again for just the one unit or both? Or is just for the area that will be the salon?

419.7 accessibility shall be designed in accordance with chapter 11. Notice it sends you directly to chapter 11 so you can't use accessibility requirements in existing buildings chapter 34. Does this mean everything in the live/work unit including things that are not being changed, like switches and windows?

1107.6.2.2group R-2 other than apartment houses, monasteries and convents has 1107.6.2.2.1 Accessible units which sends you to table 1107.6.1.1. This table says you must have an accessible unit. Does this mean the living area of the live/work area now must be changed to an accessible dwelling?

This does not seem right to me to do all of these changes especially making the living area fully accessible when no changes are being done to the living area. There will need to be a lot of work to do this, moving walls to make bathroom bigger, etc. Am I missing an exception somewhere?

There are two existing entrances into the area that will be the salon. They want to make one accessible which is ok in chapter 34 but you need to go directly to chapter 11 which requires 60% of entrances need to be accessible?


----------



## Builder Bob (Nov 8, 2012)

One, it is a change of occupancy. Any new work or changes in occupancy require it to comply with current code.

Chapter 34 used to state that in existing buildings, areas not affected by the work are not required to be brought up to current code.

Research the chapter for existing buildings and see what truly applies instead of using the first 33 chapters........otherwise you will be running in loops like you posted.

Also see if the building is on the hysterical society listing, the BO has the right to remove or alleviate certain portions of the code if in his opinion it does not create a fire or life safety issue........ with the low volume of proposed traffic(public) and the fact that the other unit was already a residential unit............. Installation of smoke detectors throughout the building may be an acceptable alternative if the building is historical in nature as deemed by the AHJ


----------



## kilitact (Nov 8, 2012)

A live work unit is one unit, that you live in and work in. Here you have two separate units. One unit, the live work unit, would be R-2 and the other R-3. Can you use nonseparate use?


----------



## Rick18071 (Nov 8, 2012)

Live/work units

Good question kilo tact. There is a commercial large building connected to the second unit also. The building is not histrionic but I think this architect is in the hysterical society.


----------



## mtlogcabin (Nov 8, 2012)

> Does this mean everything in the live/work unit including things that are not being changed, like switches and windows?


1103.2.13 Live/work units.

In live/work units constructed in accordance with Section 419, the portion of the unit utilized for nonresidential use is required to be accessible . The residential portion of the live/work unit is required to be evaluated separately in accordance with Sections 1107.6.2 and 1107.7.

Personally I would start with Chapter 34 or the existing building code because a live work unit in one portion of a townhouse or two family dwelling unit requires the entire fire area of a Group R occupancy to be sprinklered (903.2.8). This is not leagaly possible if the units are owned by different people. A major oversight by the adoption committee IMHO

I would only use 419 during original construction, after that it is an existing building.


----------



## kilitact (Nov 8, 2012)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> 1103.2.13 Live/work units.
> 
> In live/work units constructed in accordance with Section 419, the portion of the unit utilized for nonresidential use is required to be accessible . The residential portion of the live/work unit is required to be evaluated separately in accordance with Sections 1107.6.2 and 1107.7.
> 
> ...


Or party wall and design as live work on one side only.


----------



## Rick18071 (Nov 9, 2012)

Live/work units

Where did this section 103.2.13 come from. We use 2009 here on PA. And we don't use chapter one at all.

I did start with 3508.1 which sends me to 419 live/work units. 419.2 specify says no separation requirements are required.


----------



## Rick18071 (Nov 9, 2012)

Live/work units

Big news. I just found out that this building has 3 stories and a basement. Both units in this twin use the upper floors and basement too. 419.7 says to use chapter 11 and 419.2 calls it a R-2.  1107.6.2.2 R-2 other than apartments sends you to table 1107.6.1.1 says the unit needs to be fully accessible. 1107.7 only gives exceptions to type a& b units. Does this mean that this live/work unit needs to be fully accessible including the living area upper floors?


----------



## SAT (Nov 9, 2012)

What code edition? I will use 2012 IBC for reply.

If I read your post correctly we have the one side residential and will remain residential the other side is residential changing use to hair salon Group B.

Address the proposed hair salon space as any change in use accessibility, egress, etc.  Keep in mind that they are changing the primary function of the space and they are going to do some alterations.  For your entrance question I think only one entrance will be required see Section 3411.7 and Section 3411.8.

No requirements for the residential units or residential portion until we go to Chapter 9 an automatic sprinkler system shall be provided throughout all buildings with a Group R fire area (unless amended by your AHJ).

If we have a commercial building and they add a Group R we would require sprinkler system would we require automatic sprinkler in this case ???

If they are going to be a live/work unit I would address all areas that will be associated with the hair salon as a change in use (including the restroom used by the customers).


----------



## mtlogcabin (Nov 9, 2012)

> Where did this section 103.2.13 come from. We use 2009 here on PA. And we don't use chapter one at all.


That is a problem then


----------



## Paul Sweet (Nov 9, 2012)

"Where did this section 103.2.13 come from. We use 2009 here on PA. And we don't use chapter one at all."

Does Pennsylvania replace Chapter 1 with a state law or regulation?  That's what Virginia does to make the code conform to state laws.


----------



## Rick18071 (Nov 9, 2012)

Live/work units

Yes that is what PA is doing. Also no sprinklers for R-3.


----------



## Rick18071 (Nov 9, 2012)

Live/work units

Did anyone here ever have to deal with a live/work unit? I would like to know what you did.


----------



## Architect1281 (Nov 10, 2012)

The ICC and its chohorts decided to go in and mess with everyones Zoning Use classes in relation to who could do what in a dwelling (Residential Use) so the smart states like RI said as we have a state zoning enabling that lets the municipality say what Use (Zoning) goes where and theis idiotic exception to residential will severly conflict lts eliminate it like this.

Under 101.2 Scope (where the Live/work offense occurs)

Exception: Existing one and two family buildings undergoing a change of use shall comply with the provisions

of the State Building Code SBC-1 (IBC 2009 ammensded)  or State Rehabilitation Code SRC-1 (The IEBC ICC co-opted) as applicable.

for the fire supression issue keep in mind that residential in the IBC is a Throughout regardless of fire area! - so in RI not so much an issue


----------



## gjmaia (Nov 12, 2012)

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> Did anyone here ever have to deal with a live/work unit? I would like to know what you did.


I just completed a live/work unit design in PA,........there is no seperation, and the building is sprinkled under the IBC............as all R occupancies under the IBC are sprinkled in PA, while one and two unit buildings under the IRC are exempt under certain conditions,.......


----------



## Rick18071 (Nov 14, 2012)

Live/work units

Does not seem right to put in sprinklers with no separation needed between this unit and its connected unit and buildings


----------



## Rick18071 (Nov 14, 2012)

Live/work units

Gjmaia is, is the living part accessible?


----------



## gjmaia (Nov 15, 2012)

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> Gjmaia is, is the living part accessible?


yes it is under the plan approval, however, we are seeking a varience for the kitchen and bathroom, with the request being to leave them as existing conditions,.........


----------



## Rick18071 (Nov 20, 2012)

Now the architect wants to call the hair salon "B" and build a 2 hour separation between it and the rest of this old twin house. The owner owns both halfs and plans to make the unit above the salon into a rental and fix up the other half for themselfs to live in.

Wouldn't this make the residential part into a change in occupancy since it would no longer meet the definition of a one or two residential house? R2?

If so would it require sprinklers and one accessible unit?


----------



## hlfireinspector (Nov 21, 2012)

My questions are:

1. Must have sprinklers ???

2. NFPA 13 , NFPA 13R, NFPA 13D????????????????????????????

3. Only home based bussiness allowed after I adopt 2012 will be a <10% office without falling under Live/Work ??????


----------

