# Plat of Survey



## rktect 1 (Apr 27, 2010)

Recently an inspector called me and told me of a problem.  A fence was installed on the wrong side of the property line.  So we checked the plat of survey that was used for the permit application.  Basically we just have the owner draw little X's on a current/up to date plat of survey showing where they are going to place the fence.  On this plat of survey was a dimension of 7.20' from the house to the property line.  The inspector measured 7.35' to the fence which places the fence on the neighbors yard.  Failed inspection.  The inspector measured from the foundation line.  The homeowner contacted the surveyor and he called me to let me know that the problem was because his survey measured to the exterior/siding of the house and not to the foundation.

So I suppose my questions are:

Is that standard practice?

Shouldn't it be written on the plat of survey exactly to what you are measuring to if not the foundation?


----------



## fatboy (Apr 27, 2010)

I find it odd that he would measure to an exterior finish that could change, vs. a foundation that would remain unchanged. And yes, it would seem that since the structure was serving as some sort of benchmark, that the reference point should be noted somehow.

Not a surveyor.........JMHO


----------



## brudgers (Apr 27, 2010)

What do you expect if you're going to require a permit for a fence?


----------



## Mule (Apr 27, 2010)

We require permits for fences because of zoning restrictions regulating location to front building line, height etc.

We require a site plan showing the location of the fence. We leave it up to the applicant to erect the fence where they have stated the fence will be.

When they call in for a final, we verify that it is where they say it will be but not to an extent that it may be on the city row a couple of inches or on the adjacent property owners property. If they have erected the fence in between properties and the adjacent property owner complains that the fence is on "his" property, it's a civil matter. We have a permit specifying that the owner is erecting the fence on his property. We are not surveyors. If the adjacent property owner thinks it on his property...let them tear it down! We'll let the judge sort it out!

Any surveyor can gain several inches either way on a survey. It all depends on which benchmark they use.


----------



## rktect 1 (Apr 27, 2010)

I don't get to make up what this village requires permits for.  I only get to make the determination if there are violations to codes and ordinances.


----------



## Inspector 102 (Apr 27, 2010)

Because I am not licensed as a surveyor, our community does not verify or challenge property line locations. We do regulate the height, style and stability of fences by our permits. I would say that this comes down to a civil matter between property owners on property line location. I not in the file indicating the measured location might be in order.


----------



## mtlogcabin (Apr 27, 2010)

We do not issue fence permits either. We do check setbacks for projects and it is the responsibility of the owner or contractor to identify the property corners and string between them. If they can't locate the pins call the surveyor.



> I only get to make the determination if there are violations to codes and ordinances.


Without being a surveyor you can not determine if a fence is on the correct property or encroaches onto another.



> Shouldn't it be written on the plat of survey exactly to what you are measuring to if not the foundation?


Where the property pins identified and located that is what would determine the property line. The house and property line may not be parrallel so where on the house would you measure from


----------



## cboboggs (Apr 27, 2010)

We issue fence permits for free. The only things we verify are 1) Is the fence shown on the site plan and 2) does the fence conform to our zoning codes. At inspection we verify that the fence is put where they said they were going to put it and that the finished side is facing out (wood privacy fences). We do make sure that the site plan is signed and sealed and that it is a true site plan not a "Surveyor's Real Property Report". That is all. If a dispute breaks out, it is a civil matter. Like Mule stated, a surveyor can gain inches by using different bench marks.


----------



## FredK (Apr 27, 2010)

I agree with mtlogcabin.

Only fence we check is over 6 ft in height (commercial only)  and it would requires a permit.  Even then they would have to string PL and show where they intend to place fence.  Many times the fence would need a different drawing to maintain the footing setback (L shape instead of a upside down T shape) in order to be right on the PL.  Most owners split the difference and share costs.

Had one commercial property owner change his design and did his own thing and it wasn't approved.  Led to a lawsuit threat by the other owner and 9 months of wrangling before he decided to pull it down and do what was on the print (design by engineer), get inspections and get it done and get a building final.


----------



## rktect 1 (Apr 27, 2010)

cboboggs said:
			
		

> We issue fence permits for free. The only things we verify are 1) Is the fence shown on the site plan and 2) does the fence conform to our zoning codes. At inspection we verify that the fence is put where they said they were going to put it and that the finished side is facing out (wood privacy fences).


So, okay.  If the survey says 7.20 feet, where do you, as an inspector, measure from?  Foundation or siding?  According to the Plat of Survey it says 7.20 feet.  The surveyor is saying that is from the siding but nowhere on the plat does it say to measure from either the foundation or the siding.  The Plat is 4 years old.


----------



## fatboy (Apr 27, 2010)

We don't issue permits for fences unless they or over 6'. In my reply, I was just throwning out a couple comments in regards to the surveyors methods.

EDIT: As I said, I would measure from foundation.


----------



## cboboggs (Apr 27, 2010)

I forgot, I too would measure from the foundation.

rktect 1 -  I assume by plat you are talking about a site plan or boundary type survey, not the actual subdivision plat.  As stated above, I would measure from the foundation wall. My inspectors measure from the foundation wall. I was taught by a surveyor friend of mine to always measure from the foundation wall.


----------



## Mule (Apr 27, 2010)

You're only talking about 1 3/4 of an inch. You could get that much my measuring from the foundation wall and then stringing the outside edge of the property pins!

Measure from the wall of the foundation and you are close enough....

Anybody want to complain......civil matter!


----------



## rktect 1 (Apr 27, 2010)

I have a plat of survey.  From a licensed surveyor.  Signed and sealed.  Nothing on it to indicate it was drawn up as a real estate survey.


----------



## Mule (Apr 27, 2010)

See above! You posted as I was posting so you may not see my response!


----------



## rktect 1 (Apr 27, 2010)

Mule said:
			
		

> You're only talking about 1 3/4 of an inch. You could get that much my measuring from the foundation wall and then stringing the outside edge of the property pins!Measure from the wall of the foundation and you are close enough....
> 
> Anybody want to complain......civil matter!


Mule,

I don't have a problem.  I agree with you.  We are talking about 1.5 inches on a fence where nobody in his right mind is going to bother paying a surveyor $400 to figure out.  But the inspector noted it.  Now it has failed and the homeowner is freaked out.  Personally I think we have the surveyors word that it was measured from the siding.  Done and good.  Verify that it is within 7.20 from siding, end of day.  That is what I will tell my inspector when he comes in.

Still I am a bit put off that any surveyor would actually freakin measure from siding.  That is really poor workmanship.  SO I wanted to see if this was normal or not.


----------



## DAYWALKER (Apr 28, 2010)

We issue fence permits for all fences. The adopted regulations state that the fence must be at least 3 inches in from the property line. Get this,

we also do post hole inspections......36" deep for an open fence......42" deep for a privacy fence. That 3 inches would have saved alot of grief on the project in question.......we always measure from the foundation. As a side note.....every surveyor could come up with a slightly differant dimension to the property line.


----------



## texasbo (Apr 28, 2010)

rktect: does your ordinance specifically prohibit a private fence from being built across a property line onto another private property? I would be willing to bet it doesn't. Furthermore, as others have said, neither you nor your inspector know where the propert line actually is. It's a non issue. Approve it and move on.


----------



## TimNY (Apr 28, 2010)

For most fences we do the same thing-- draw on the survey where it is going and you get a permit.  I don't measure anything.  If a neighbor complains it's on their property (and can substantiate that) I will talk to  both parties and try and work it out amicably.  Failing that it is a civil matter.

One exception is when the fence is part of a pool enclosure.  Then we require a surveyor to plot the fence on the survey after installation.


----------



## Alias (Apr 30, 2010)

As to the original question, I would measure from the edge of the foundation wall, not the exterior wall coverings.

I don't require fence permits, it is up to the property owner to determine their lot line.  If there are questions about where the exact lie is, I tell them they need to hire a surveyor.  I do give them the information on how high fences and hedges can be per city code.

I had someone in last week who was asking me if they needed to put their fence a foot or so inside their property line.  Their neighbor said they needed to build it with room to access the fence in case of repair.  I informed them that I had no knowledge of this requirement.

Sue; it's spring, let the fence wars begin!


----------



## rktect 1 (Apr 30, 2010)

Alias said:
			
		

> As to the original question, I would measure from the edge of the foundation wall, not the exterior wall coverings.I don't require fence permits, it is up to the property owner to determine their lot line.  If there are questions about where the exact lie is, I tell them they need to hire a surveyor.  I do give them the information on how high fences and hedges can be per city code.
> 
> I had someone in last week who was asking me if they needed to put their fence a foot or so inside their property line.  Their neighbor said they needed to build it with room to access the fence in case of repair.  I informed them that I had no knowledge of this requirement.
> 
> Sue; it's spring, let the fence wars begin!


I think last year I had a discussion with my dad who was also under the impression the fence needed clearence for repiar. work.  He said 3 feet though.  Must be some throw back to when people actually had larger sized lots measured in acres.


----------



## Alias (Apr 30, 2010)

rktect 1 said:
			
		

> I think last year I had a discussion with my dad who was also under the impression the fence needed clearence for repiar. work. He said 3 feet though. Must be some throw back to when people actually had larger sized lots measured in acres.


My 'lot' is a good example, it's 3.98 acres.  I can lose 6" or so and not miss it.   

The folks in quoting me about clearances for repair have a lot that extends through to the next street.  The neighbor on the 'backyard side' is the one that isn't happy as the 6' high wood fence will extend past the front of their house.  Oh well, it's the guy's backyard and city ordinance doesn't cover this anomoly for this type of lot.

Sue, suck it up cupcake........


----------

