# Toilet compartment depth vs maneuvering space in front of toilet



## huumla (Jun 4, 2020)

This may be Specific to California Accessibility...
ABA: Figure 604.8.1.1  provides minimum dimensions for toilet compartment of 60" wide by 59" deep for end opening door. This is easy to understand.

Calfornia section of this code, 604.8.1.1.3, confirms this depth, but then also has a requirement, "
In a wheelchair accessible compartment with a door located in the front wall or partition (facing the water closet), either in-swinging or out-swinging, a minimum 60 inches (1524 mm) wide and 48 inches (1219 mm) deep maneuvering space shall be provided in front of the water closet." 

Anyone else familiar with this? Do i read it correctly that the 48" maneuvering space in front prevails and whatever toilet depth is becomes the compartment depth(standard floor toilet around 27" from the back wall? this would make this depth minimally 75", 16" greater than federal requirement?

thanks.


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## ADAguy (Jun 5, 2020)

We "do" what we do in CA after consulting with members of the disabled community. We, as you, are free to exceed ADA and often do.
A similar dimensional issue is the width of ambulatory stalls only being 36" and no mention of a disabled height WC.
There is a minimum weight support requirement for grab bars but not for wall mounted WC's.


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## Jamie Holmes (Dec 18, 2020)

ADAguy said:


> We "do" what we do in CA after consulting with members of the disabled community. We, as you, are free to exceed ADA and often do.
> A similar dimensional issue is the width of ambulatory stalls only being 36" and no mention of a disabled height WC.
> There is a minimum weight support requirement for grab bars but not for wall mounted WC's.


I had never noticed the lack of ADA WC height in the ambulatory compartment section of code. Thanks for that ADA Guy.

I have a question to you on the subject of wheelchair accessible toilet compartments. Specifically 11B-604.8.1.2 and the 4" maximum requirement with regard to the door opening location. 
11B-604.8.1.2 Doors. ~ yadda yadda then... 
Where located in the front partition, the door opening shall be *4 inches *(102 mm) maximum from the side wall or partition farthest from the water closet. Where located in the side wall or partition, the door opening shall be* 4 inches* (102 mm) maximum from the front partition. 
Followed by more yadda yadda ~ .

What is the purpose of this 4" maximum? There is no mention of it having to be to the hinge side of the door opening, but every depiction shows it to the hinge side. Does it have to be to the hinge side of the door opening? The verbiage states "side wall or partition" but the depictions only show partition to partition.
I am unable to find commentary, California commentary that is, for the 4" maximum requirement and why it is there. I found it in ICC A117.1-2009 version, but building officials in California don't appreciate and won't recognize it as valid for code reference for variance or alternative methods discussions. I have also looked in the 2020 CalDAG and the 2019 California Access Compliance Advisory Reference Manual and found no commentary for the 4" requirement. 
We have a plan with a wheel chair accessible compartment that is 60" in width and the length is 12'6". It's a huge stall I know, but it's what the customer wants. This compartment is surrounded on 3 sides by structural walls. The partition then is 12'6" long with a door in it for a side entry into the stall. Perpendicular to the 12'6" partition on one end is a row of lavatories and on the other end is a row of standard toilet compartments. The door is located approximately 20" off the wall for approach clear of the lavatories. I received plan review back from the 3rd party requiring the 4" maximum to the door opening from the side wall which puts the lavatories in my required door approach. I was hoping the code intention may be that it was required if you could only meet the minimum fixture space requirement and that leniancy would be allowed if the compartment was much larger as the ICC version does. Can you offer some direction or guide me to DSA interpretation on this 4" requirement?


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## steveray (Dec 19, 2020)

It's to allow door approach maneuvering in the compartment


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## Jamie Holmes (Dec 21, 2020)

Yes, Thank you Steveray. Now all I need is to find documented clarification from CA DSA that says if I have an oversized compartment with more than the minimum door approach maneuvering space within it, the 4" maximum is not required.


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## Paul Sweet (Dec 21, 2020)

I think this requirement is based on a "typical" 5 ft. x 5 ft. stall with the door facing the WC to allow an approach next to the WC for a diagonal transfer.  You should meet the intent of ADA as long as there is adequate maneuvering space between the door and WC.  California might be a different matter.

ADASAD 604.4 requires accessible WC seats to be 17" to 19" high.  ANSI, and hopefully California, should be the same.  604.8.2 applies to the *compartment.*


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## ADAguy (Dec 21, 2020)

You may want to check the 2021 code cycle draft from the Building Standards Commission. I believe they they have addressed this.


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## Jamie Holmes (Dec 21, 2020)

ADAguy said:


> You may want to check the 2021 code cycle draft from the Building Standards Commission. I believe they they have addressed this.


ADAguy, Where would I find the proposed draft? I can't seem to locate it on CA.gov.


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## ADAguy (Dec 22, 2020)

visit the California Building Standards Commission website


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