# Rafter seat cut



## TimNY (Jul 31, 2011)




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## Mac (Aug 1, 2011)

OWch! Overnotched!


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## ICE (Aug 1, 2011)

What is coming in from the other side?


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## RJJ (Aug 1, 2011)

Need more info! How this ties together. What is the pitch and ridge assembly? Not sure I have a big problem with the cut. I am guessing the rafters are 2x10's so what is the span?


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## pwood (Aug 1, 2011)

put a 1 1/2"  level cut on the bottom of the rafter and install a joist hanger nailed to the double plates to carry the load.


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## RJJ (Aug 1, 2011)

I have more problems with the rafter going out the back??? the nailing of the studs is big ? and miss nails on plywood. Plus the plywood is butt tight.


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## Big Mac (Aug 1, 2011)

Pwood has a fairly simple and reasonable fix for the overnotched situation


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## TimNY (Aug 1, 2011)

ICE said:
			
		

> What is coming in from the other side?


Those form an eave on the outside, about 12" wide.



			
				RJJ said:
			
		

> Need more info! How this ties together. What is the pitch and ridge assembly? Not sure I have a big problem with the cut. I am guessing the rafters are 2x10's so what is the span?


I don't think it will work, I believe it brought the rafter down to about a 2x4.  I don't remember the span off hand.  The stamped plans called for 2x10 rafters.  It could work, but clearly this is not what the arch had in mind.



			
				pwood said:
			
		

> put a 1 1/2"  level cut on the bottom of the rafter and install a joist hanger nailed to the double plates to carry the load.


That is exactly what I recommended.  Actually, a little more than 1-1/2" so the drywall will clear the ledger.  They said they were going to do that.  I wondered if Simpson made a hanger for this?


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## pyrguy (Aug 1, 2011)

As my Grandson would say, "That not work."


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## ICE (Aug 1, 2011)

I don't think much of the way the overhang is attached.  How about a connection from the roof diaphragm and the wall?


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## TimNY (Aug 1, 2011)

ICE said:
			
		

> I don't think much of the way the overhang is attached.  How about a connection from the roof diaphragm and the wall?


Honestly, I'll have to take a better look at that.  It didn't send up any flags when I was there.  But I could have been distracted.  I'll let you know what I find.


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## Architect1281 (Aug 1, 2011)

saw one like that saturday with Timber Lok Screws through to the plates

still does not cocomply as 2x8 becomes whats left 2x4 maybe?

flat cut and attached ledger is probable depends on what rafter is supposed to be


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## fatboy (Aug 1, 2011)

I've bought pwoods solution in the past, they can float the wall board past the added heel cut to make the asthetics work.


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## TimNY (Aug 2, 2011)

Architect1281 said:
			
		

> saw one like that saturday with Timber Lok Screws through to the platesstill does not cocomply as 2x8 becomes whats left 2x4 maybe?
> 
> flat cut and attached ledger is probable depends on what rafter is supposed to be


Timberlock screws aren't structural connectors.  Good for fastening railroad ties in your garden, tho


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## RJJ (Aug 2, 2011)

Fatboy: I agree! If the pitch is 12/12 or greater there is room for the over cut. The tail is left for drywall intersection. Yes it need up lift clips and Tim they do make them.

The studs seem to be toe nailed and can't determine the size of the nail? I have more issues with the wall the rafters are siting on.


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## Architect1281 (Aug 2, 2011)

Did not mean to indicate acceptable or correct in any way - shear in screw is not a substitute for flush bearing capacity,

quite the oposite


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## mmmarvel (Aug 3, 2011)

TimNY said:
			
		

> Honestly, I'll have to take a better look at that.  It didn't send up any flags when I was there.  But I could have been distracted.  I'll let you know what I find.


Yeah, sometimes when a big red flag like this one comes up, it keeps hitting you in the face and distracts from being able to really see other problems.  As for pwoods solution - good idea, it would probably work, but as an inspector I'm not going to mention it.  While I like to help, way too often the idea gets twisted to a "Well, the building inspector TOLD me to do it this way."  Nasty can of worms.


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## DRP (Aug 3, 2011)

TimNY said:
			
		

> Timberlock screws aren't structural connectors.  Good for fastening railroad ties in your garden, tho


http://www.icc-es.org/reports/pdf_files/ICC-ES/ESR-1078.pdf


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## TimNY (Aug 4, 2011)

DRP said:
			
		

> http://www.icc-es.org/reports/pdf_files/ICC-ES/ESR-1078.pdf


For dowel-type connections.  Not sure what that entails, but the onus would be on the contractor to substantiate it.  The ESR doesn't even reference a code section.

A hardened screw would not be a substitue for a common nail in any of the scenarios I run through my head.

I would like to know what a "dowel connection" is, though.  I picture a post-and-beam scenario where the screw could be used to secure the tenon.


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## DRP (Aug 4, 2011)

From the chapter heading in the NDS;

"Dowel type Fasteners (Bolts, Lag Screws, Wood Screws, Nails/Spikes, Drift Bolts, and Drift Pins)"

These may or may not be appropriate for this situation, my only reason was to show that these are structural connections. They have higher withdrawal and shear values than common nails.


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## TimNY (Aug 4, 2011)

Thanks, DRP, I stand corrected.  I looked at the link and it appears as long as the fastening is engineered, they could be used.

I thought there was some issue with the screws being brittle due to the hardening.


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## Dawgbark (Aug 7, 2011)

If by chance this is on a corn crib, time will make it fail after about 100 yrs of neglect.                   If this has an Architect or Engineer involved in it have them address the many issues in the picture, if it is being built off a type 5 sheet have them seek professional help. Every shinner (exposed fastener) left exposed is a future leak be it on the roof or through the weather tight exterior membrane. How is the roof diaphragm nailing being transferred from the roof ridge into the top cords to the foundation hardware? However without seeing the complete area it is really hard to judge exactly what else could/is happening.


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## RJJ (Aug 8, 2011)

Dawgbark: Unless I missed a photo no shingles here! However, I agree many things are not shown!


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## Supermanglide (Aug 11, 2011)

I have even more issues using the rafter on the way out the back??? the nailing using the studs is large ?? and overlook nails on plywood.


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## Dawgbark (Aug 12, 2011)

RJJ said:
			
		

> Dawgbark: Unless I missed a photo no shingles here! However, I agree many things are not shown!


  Did not Claim there were shingles, ? , where did you see I said anything about shingles? I stated " Every shinner (exposed fastener) left exposed is a future leak be it on the roof or through the weather tight exterior membrane."


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