# Please check my "version 2" ADA restroom layout



## Michael.L (May 22, 2018)

As stated in my first ADA restroom layout thread, I'm trying to design a single-occupancy ADA-compliant restroom for a small cafe. The restroom must be as compact as possible, especially in width.

Differences between the design in the first thread and this version are:

1. This design adds a urinal.

2. Instead of using generic fixture symbols from the drafting software's shapes library, I have drawn my own symbols using the actual dimensions from the Toto fixtures I intend to have installed. This allows me to accurately determine the required clear floor space (CFS) between the fixtures.

3. The entry door is now 36" and opens outward. Note, that I've based the inside CFS for a door with a deadbolt and a closer. (Or, for a latch and no closer.)

4. I've increased the space from the centerline of the lavatory to the side wall to 18", even though this is not required.

5. My original design was to the exact minimums (with the intent of later adding some extra space for building tolerances). This design shows the extra space already incorporated (the light gray dashed lines around the T-shaped turning space and to the front and left side of the water closet's CFS.

6. This version shows the location and CFS for each of the in-wall dispensers, plus a surface-mounted baby changing station.






Note that the walls will be finished with tile. All dimensions between the walls, or referenced from the walls, are based off the finished tile face of each wall. I've added an extra 2" inch margin to the CFS in front of, and to the left of, the water closet CFS. I've added an extra 1" margin around the entire perimeter of the T-shaped turning space. These margins give a buffer of at least 2" over all minimum required CFS dimensions. I know this is less than what is _preferred_, but it certainly meets what is _required_. It should allow for reasonable construction deviations and it should be enough to prevent lawsuits. Realize that we're working with a small leased space and this ADA restroom will consume almost 10% of our interior. Increasing its size will eat into the space we must have for our commercial kitchen.

Feedback welcomed. Thanks!


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## RLGA (May 22, 2018)

Clear floor space for urinal cannot overlap the fixture. The T-shaped turning space overlaps the urinal.


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## Michael.L (May 22, 2018)

RLGA said:


> Clear floor space for urinal cannot overlap the fixture.


_DOJ 2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design:_
*603.2.2 Overlap.* Required clear floor spaces, clearance at fixtures, and turning space shall be
permitted to overlap.​
I should point out that, even though I've drawn CFS for the urinal, I will be installing it at standard height (not ADA height). So the urinal will actually not be an ADA fixture, thus the urinal CFS is moot.
​


RLGA said:


> The T-shaped turning space overlaps the urinal.


*304.3.2 T-Shaped Space.* The turning space shall be a T-shaped space within a 60 inch (1525 mm)
square minimum with arms and base 36 inches (915 mm) wide minimum. Each arm of the T shall be
clear of obstructions 12 inches (305 mm) minimum in each direction and the base shall be clear of 
obstructions 24 inches (610 mm) minimum. _The space shall be permitted to include knee and toe
clearance complying with 306 only at the end of either the base or one arm._​
However, I do see a problem now because I have the urinal overlapping one arm and the baby changing table overlapping the opposite arm. I thought this was acceptable, but now I see I can only overlap one arm. I will move the urinal closer to the lavatory so that it's not overlapping the arm of the T-shaped turning space.


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## Michael.L (May 22, 2018)

Michael.L said:


> I should point out that, even though I've drawn CFS for the urinal, I will be installing it at standard height (not ADA height). So the urinal will actually not be an ADA fixture, thus the urinal CFS is moot.


Here is the authority for not making the urinal accessible:

From the DOJ's _"Guidance on the 2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design"_ dated September 15, 2010:
*Urinals.* Men’s toilet rooms with only one urinal will no longer be required to provide an accessible urinal under the 2010 Standards. Such toilet rooms will still be required to provide an accessible toilet compartment.​


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## RLGA (May 22, 2018)

Michael.L said:


> _DOJ 2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design:_
> *603.2.2 Overlap.* Required clear floor spaces, clearance at fixtures, and turning space shall be
> permitted to overlap.​


​Only these elements (in blue) can overlap--it does not mention the fixtures themselves. If a urinal is provided, it must be ADA compliant.


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## Michael.L (May 22, 2018)

RLGA said:


> ​Only these elements (in blue) can overlap--it does not mention the fixtures themselves. If a urinal is provided, it must be ADA compliant.


In the layout, no fixture is overlapping the CFS of another fixture. Only the CFS of the urinal is overlapping the CFS of the water closet, which is permitted.

I already addressed the fact that the urinal does not need to be ADA compliant in the post above.


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## RLGA (May 22, 2018)

Michael.L said:


> Here is the authority for not making the urinal accessible:
> 
> From the DOJ's _"Guidance on the 2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design"_ dated September 15, 2010:
> *Urinals.* Men’s toilet rooms with only one urinal will no longer be required to provide an accessible urinal under the 2010 Standards. Such toilet rooms will still be required to provide an accessible toilet compartment.​


You are correct. The IBC also has an exception that states that.


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## RLGA (May 22, 2018)

Michael.L said:


> In the layout, no fixture is overlapping the CFS of another fixture. Only the CFS of the urinal is overlapping the CFS of the water closet, which is permitted.
> 
> I already addressed the fact that the urinal does not need to be ADA compliant in the post above.


Even though the urinal is not required to be accessible, if it were accessible, the clear floor space _*for the urinal*_ cannot overlap the urinal. Only where the ADA/ANSI state that an overlap is permitted can the clear floor space overlap the fixture (i.e., water closets and lavatories).


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## Michael.L (May 22, 2018)

RLGA said:


> Even though the urinal is not required to be accessible, if it were accessible, the clear floor space _*for the urinal*_ cannot overlap the urinal. Only where the ADA/ANSI state that an overlap is permitted can the clear floor space overlap the fixture (i.e., water closets and lavatories).


Oh, I see what you're talking about now. I thought you were saying that it was overlapping the water closet CFS. I apologize for my misunderstanding.

_If I were to install the urinal as an accessible fixture_, there is room to move the CFS back until it bumped up against the baby-changing table. That would still leave 1.75" of CFS overlapping under the front edge of the urinal. But I believe this would be permitted as toe space. There is at least 8" of toe space (laterally from front-to-back) under that Toto urinal if it were mounted at ADA height.


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## Michael.L (May 22, 2018)

Michael.L said:


> However, I do see a problem now because I have the urinal overlapping one arm and the baby changing table overlapping the opposite arm. I thought this was acceptable, but now I see I can only overlap one arm. I will move the urinal closer to the lavatory so that it's not overlapping the arm of the T-shaped turning space.


I also see that the lavatory is overlapping the base of the T-shaped turning space. So I will have to move the lavatory farther down the wall too. That's unfortunate. There goes the 18" spacing.


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## Michael.L (May 22, 2018)

Ok, here's the revision. I moved the urinal and lavatory out of the T-shaped turning space. Now only the baby-changing station overlaps one arm of the T-shaped space, as permitted.

I also deleted the outline for CFS in front of the non-accessible urinal to minimize confusion.


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## mtlogcabin (May 22, 2018)




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## my250r11 (May 23, 2018)

Sure hope that's a residential restroom mtlogcabin, I see way to many violation for an ADA complaint restroom.


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## ADAguy (May 29, 2018)

What of the push side clearance required for the door?
You say a noncompliant urinal is ok per ADA but you also said a toilet partition is required?


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## Michael.L (May 30, 2018)

ADAguy said:


> What of the push side clearance required for the door?


The door has a deadbolt and a closer. The deadbolt is not a latch (see this thread). Therefore, push side clearance need only be the width of the door extending back 48 inches.

If the AHJ refuses to accept that a deadbolt is not a latch, then I would replace the deadbolt with a locking latch and remove the closer (if that's permitted in my locale).



ADAguy said:


> You say a noncompliant urinal is ok per ADA but you also said a toilet partition is required?


I never mentioned a toilet partition in any of my restroom layouts. Perhaps you're thinking of another thread?


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## ADAguy (May 30, 2018)

From the DOJ's _"Guidance on the 2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design"_ dated September 15, 2010:
*Urinals.* Men’s toilet rooms with only one urinal will no longer be required to provide an accessible urinal under the 2010 Standards. Such toilet rooms will still be required to *provide an accessible toilet compartment. 

Your prior justification for no urinal, I don't see a "compartment" in the room.*


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## RLGA (May 30, 2018)

ADAguy said:


> From the DOJ's _"Guidance on the 2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design"_ dated September 15, 2010:
> *Urinals.* Men’s toilet rooms with only one urinal will no longer be required to provide an accessible urinal under the 2010 Standards. Such toilet rooms will still be required to *provide an accessible toilet compartment.
> 
> Your prior justification for no urinal, I don't see a "compartment" in the room.*


This can be considered a single-use, family, or assisted-use toilet facility (unisex per ADA), which allows a urinal along with a water closet--a toilet compartment is not required.


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## Sleepy (May 30, 2018)

ADAguy,  It's unfortunate, but the official "guidance" isn't always correct, or can be misleading, we designers always should look at the actual code or standard being enforced.  I think RLGA is correct.  There is no requirement to have compartments per ADA, even for multi-use toilet rooms.  ADA-2010 2.13.3.1 says "Where toilet compartments are provided, at least one..." My reading of that is that you don't actually have to have one, but if you do one must be accessible, with more requirements for multiples.  Also ADA-2010 is clear that urinals don't need to be accessible until you have more than one, see 213.3.3 "Where more than one urinal is provided, at least one shall comply with 605." 

Of course, other applicable codes, such as IBC, may require partitions.  IBC-2015 1210.3.1 does require toilet partitions except in single occupant rooms with lockable doors and other limited situations.


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## Rick18071 (May 30, 2018)

IPC 310.4 Each water closet utilized by public or employees shall occupy a separate compartment with walls or partitions and a door enclosing the fixture to ensure privacy.
Exception: Water closet compartments shall not be required in a single-occupant toilet room with a lockable door.

This section does not require toilet compartments no matter how many toilets or urinals are in the room if there is a lockable door.


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## north star (May 30, 2018)

*& = &*

Possibly a narrower Lavatory to increase dimensional space ?

*& = &*


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## ADAguy (May 30, 2018)

Thank you for the clarifications, especially "if only one urinal is provided".

Consider if you will however in many small cafes with existing single occupant RR's that acquire a liquor license, Health Dept's in CA require both a urinal and a WC. If space is available wouldn't the urinal have to be accessible or would the accessible WC be seen as an acceptable alternative? If space is not available for both fixtures HD may chose to wave the urinal requirement.


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## Michael.L (May 30, 2018)

north star said:


> Possibly a narrower Lavatory to increase dimensional space ?


I had also thought that the Toto seemed a bit too wide. But then I compared comparable commercial wall-mounted lavatories from Kohler and American Standard and they are all about 21" in width.


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## Michael.L (May 30, 2018)

ADAguy said:


> Consider if you will however in many small cafes with existing single occupant RR's that acquire a liquor license, Health Dept's in CA require both a urinal and a WC. If space is available wouldn't the urinal have to be accessible or would the accessible WC be seen as an acceptable alternative? If space is not available for both fixtures HD may chose to wave the urinal requirement.


I must admit I find it humorous that CA requires a urinal with a liquor license. Does that mean "progressive" California has codified gender differentiation?

In any case, our shop will not be serving liquor, so the point is moot. But to address your question, my reading of the standards is that the accessible WC is an acceptable alternative to an accessible urinal when only one urinal exists.


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## Sleepy (May 30, 2018)

Well, you never really buy beer, you just rent it.


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## Michael.L (May 30, 2018)

FYI, I found a recessed baby changing station that I can use in lieu of the surface-mounted one shown in my drawing. Using the recessed model would allow me to move the urinal back to the position I had in the first image, thus providing greater separation between the urinal and the lavatory (which, IMO, would improve the customer's experience, especially for ladies).

The downside is that the recessed baby changing station is $290 more than the surface-mounted one ($502 vs $212). I'll have to see if I can fit that in the budget.


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## ADAguy (May 30, 2018)

How many dougnuts to make up the difference (smiling)?


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## RLGA (May 30, 2018)

Dougnuts? I hope "Doug" is protecting his family jewels.


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## Michael.L (May 30, 2018)

ADAguy said:


> How many dougnuts to make up the difference (smiling)?


I guess that depends on the value Doug places on his nuts. 

Seriously though, $290 is not a lot of money (in cash or in donuts). But it all adds up when you're trying to get a business launched.


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