# How to run PVC DWV within a Load Bearing Wall



## jar546

Separating the garage from the house is a 2x6 load bearing wall.  This is how we run pipes in it in Pennsyltucky.Is there a violation here?

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## Sifu

R602.6, Hole bored closer than 5/8 from edge! Maximum bore exceeded


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## north star

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I do not see any purple primer..........Did they use any ?

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## steveray

Studs and plate violated.....


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## mtlogcabin

Next question how would you tell them to correct it?


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## steveray

Unbore the studs of course...maybe take them out and show them a good time..  ...Stud shoes should work and the structural strap/ nailplate for the top plate...Or an engineer....Where is GR?


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## Paul Sweet

I think that holes are limited to 40% of the stud width.  Could they nail a 2x4 perpendicular to the overdrilled studs?


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## mtlogcabin

I don't know if you can get a stud shoe for a 3" PVC pipe



> Could they nail a 2x4 perpendicular to the overdrilled studs?


That would be a simple solution I can agree with


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## Mark K

Supports my contention that electricians and plumbers should not be allowed any cutting tool larger than nail clippers.


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## Francis Vineyard

They make stud shoes for 1.5, 2 and 3 inch.  Make sure they use the correct shoe with the screws that come with the shoes.





BTW are those the end nails bent over at the underside of the top plate next to the studs?


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## ICE

What requires 3" vent?


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## tmurray

ICE said:
			
		

> What requires 3" vent?


We require a 4" vent through roof in Canada...


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## steveray

R602.6.1 Drilling and notching of top plate. When piping or ductwork is placed in or partly in an exterior wall or interior load-bearing wall, necessitating cutting, drilling or notching of the top plate by more than 50 percent of its width, a galvanized metal tie not less than 0.054 inch thick (1.37 mm) (16 ga) and 11/2 inches (38 mm) wide shall be fastened across and to the plate at each side of the opening with not less than eight 10d (0.148 inch diameter) having a minimum length of 11/2 inches (38 mm) at each side or equivalent. The metal tie must extend a minimum of 6 inches past the opening. See Figure R602.6.1.


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## Francis Vineyard

. . . . . .


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## mtlogcabin

ICE said:
			
		

> What requires 3" vent?


Why do you think it is a vent?


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## Phil

An excerpt from Simpson's ESR-2608 for stud shoes:

"When the size of the cut, notch, or drill hole exceeds the maximum specified in the code, The Simpson Strong Tie stud shoes may be used provided an engineered design is submitted in accordance with Section 2301.2 of the IBC or Section R301.1.3 of the IRC as applicable."

If it were an exterior wall subject to wind loads, a stud shoe alone might not work.


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## steveray

There it is FV....Do you make them do it both sides or was that their choice?


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## Sifu

I see it as requiring both sides in a wall without sheathing.


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## mtlogcabin

Since it is a bearing wall I believe the I-Joist require blocking at all bearing points. I can't tell if they are there or not.


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## Pcinspector1

Northstar, I think purple primer may not be a requirement in the next code cycle.

Might want to check into that, you may want to amend it as a requirement in your jurisdiction.

If its a vent, could have been a 2-inch with a change to 3-inch in the attic but I think it's a water closet, oops new code term "toilet" drain line.

pc1


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## steveray

Sifu said:
			
		

> I see it as requiring both sides in a wall without sheathing.


Exception: When the entire side of the wall with the notch or cut is covered by wood structural panel sheathing.

Sheathing is only required on one side which effectively makes this a nonissue in exterior walls....except for the plating....


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## ICE

If sheathing is required for a braced wall, the top plate are a chord. Technically speaking, if the chord is cut it takes an engineered fix.


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## steveray

ICE said:
			
		

> If sheathing is required for a braced wall, the top plate are a chord. Technically speaking, if the chord is cut it takes an engineered fix.


Where in the IRC are there different requirements for boring for braced wall elements? Maybe in Ca.....


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## Sifu

To me the code isn't entirely clear (go figure) on whether the boring of a plate more than 50% requires the tie on one or both sides. (The exception refers to a notch or cut, not a bore) And without knowing whether the code is designed to resist an imposed load that is intended for tension, gravity or lateral I have assumed the code intended for both sides to be protected from failure.  The sheathing would eliminate the need for a tie on the side that is sheathed but would do little to strengthen the side without sheathing and if the force is from the outside pushing in, say from wind, you end up with essentially nothing to resist that force where the code intends a plate (or double plate) to resist that force.  That is my assumption and maybe it is an overly cautious reaction, but for the cost and time involved it seems reasonable until I am shown the error of my thinking.  I don't have the commentary with me but I will check again.


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## Francis Vineyard

If the interpretation were a problem think it might have been address at one time or another?

RB172-06/07

R602.6.1

Proposed Change as Submitted:

Proponent: Randall Shackelford, Simpson Strong-Tie Co

Revise as follows:

R602.6.1 Drilling and notching of top plate. When piping or ductwork is placed in or partly in an exterior wall or

interior load-bearing wall, necessitating cutting, drilling or notching of the top plate by more than 50 percent of its

width, a galvanized metal tie of not less than 0.054 inch thick (1.37 mm) (16 ga) and 1 1/2 inches (38 mm) wide

shall be fastened across and to the plate at each side of the opening with not less than eight 16d 10d (0.148”

diameter) nails having a minimum length of 1 1/2 inches (38 mm) at each side or equivalent. See Figure

R602.6.1.

*DELETE *Exception: When the entire side of the wall with the notch or cut is covered by wood structural panel

sheathing.

Reason: To revise code requirements.

0.148” by 1½” nails are common nails used to install metal ties (connectors). 16d nails tend to split the top plates, while 10d nails do not.

A recent interpretation from ICC Staff indicates that the 16d nails currently specified could be 16d box nails. 10d nails have an equivalent or

greater calculated capacity as 16d nails.

Table 11P of the 2005 NDS, standard reference number NDS–05 in the codes, provides allowable shear loads of a 16d box nail through a 16

gauge steel plate. They are:

• 88 pounds into Spruce-Pine-Fir

• 102 pounds into Douglas Fir-Larch

• 111 pounds into Southern Pine

Table 11P combined with footnote 3 provides allowable shear loads of a 10d common nail 1½ inches long (0.148” x 1.50”) through a 16 gauge

steel plate. They are:

• 97 pounds into Spruce-Pine-Fir

• 112 pounds into Douglas Fir-Larch

• 122 pounds into Southern Pine

Based on the allowable loads in the NDS, a 10d nail 1½ inches long exceeds the shear capacity of a 16d box nail in this application. The

Exception is stricken because the wood structural panel sheathing does not provide equivalent capacity as the strap. There is no way to tell

where the joint in the sheathing will be located. If it is located near the cut top plate, it will transfer very little load across the plate. Even if the

panel were located exactly centered over the cut in the plates, there will only be four 6d common nails on each side of the cut.

Cost Impact: The code change proposal will only increase the cost of construction if sheathing is being used to splice cuts in plates

Committee Action: Approved as Modified

Modify proposal as follows:

R602.6.1 Drilling and notching of top plate. When piping or ductwork is placed in or partly in an exterior wall or interior load-bearing wall,

necessitating cutting, drilling or notching of the top plate by more than 50 percent of its width, a galvanized metal tie of not less than 0.054 inch

thick (1.37 mm) (16 ga) and 1 1/2 inches (38 mm) wide shall be fastened across and to the plate at each side of the opening with not less than

eight 10d (0.148” diameter) nails having a minimum length of 1 1/2 inches (38 mm) at each side or equivalent. See Figure R602.6.1.

Exception: When the entire side of the wall with the notch or cut is covered by wood structural panel sheathing.

Committee Reason: This change eliminates the potential of splitting the top plate by reducing the nail size. The modification retains the

exception that will provide an alternative to the metal strap.

Assembly Action: None

Individual Consideration Agenda

This item is on the agenda for individual consideration because a public comment was submitted.

Public Comment:

Scott Dornfeld, City of Delano, MN, representing the Association of Minnesota Building Officials, requests

Approval as Modified by this Public Comment.

2007 ICC FINAL ACTION AGENDA 451

Further modify proposal as follows:

R602.6.1 Drilling and notching of top plates. When piping or ductwork is placed in or partly in an exterior wall or interior load-bearing wall,

necessitating cutting, drilling or notching of the top plate by more than 50 percent of its width, a galvanized metal tie of not less than 0.054 inch

thick (1.37 mm) (16 ga.) and 1 ½ inches (38mm) wide shall be fastened across and to the plate at each side of the opening with not less than

eight 10d (0.148” diameter) nails having a minimum length of 1 ½ inches (38mm) at each side or equivalent. The metal tie must extend a

minimum of 6 inches past the opening. See figure R602.6.1

Exception: When the entire side of the wall with the notch or cut is covered by wood structural panel sheathing.

Commenter=s Reason: This change will help maintain the top and tie plates as solid members, by extending the metal strap past each of

those plates that are cut or notch.

http://www.iccsafe.org/cs/codes/documents/2006-07cycle/faa/irc-be2.pdf


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## steveray

Now imagine it is notched 98% (from the outside) and sheathed on the outside...Is it compliant without a strap on the inside?...Not good wording, although I have never heard of a failure from this and most of the guys down here were not doing this before I started....


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## Francis Vineyard

Not familiar with design for high wind and seismec areas I never considered what is "the entire side of the wall . . . is covered by wood structural sheathing"?

Can it have openings such as doors and windows?  Required only for the portion not a braced wall panel?

Agree with what steveray said; never heard of a failure . . . No pun meant by being deaf and HOH


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