# virtual inspections



## ICE

I have been asked to come up with the pros and cons of virtual inspections.  Your help with that would be appreciated.  Thanks


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## cda

Residential or commercial??


I could see use on some inspections

I would want video though


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## e hilton

Should work well, as long as you had 2-way commo with the the person on site, and they pointed the camera at what you wanted to see.  Travel time would drop to zero, but time “on site” would probably increase by 50%.


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## cda

1. What medium would be used or accepted

2. How would it get from contractor to city

3. How will the city store it

4. Does the city have the storage capability

5. Quality of product


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## TheCommish

video is not being there, how much do you see just walking up to the site, what is outside of the field of view of the video feed


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## Pcinspector1

ICE, One issue is that the person doing the video has to stay back a bit or the video can be used over and over from job to job to try to fool you. So communication when doing the video would be important I would think. 

TheCommish has a good point, "they" would only show you what "they" want you to see, not so much as what you want to see. 

Could you look at a breaker panel and make the inspection? We see them posted here, but we would want to see the grounding also.


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## steveray

I did two res remodels the other day....Basic master bed/ bath....2.5 hours......Not efficient....I could see it for HVAC swaps and services in the future though...


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## Keystone

-all inspections shall be scheduled as any other inspection. 

-all inspections shall be in real-time.

-all inspections shall include copy and video proof of approved plans onsite. 

-all inspections shall include responsible person in charge through entirety of inspection. 

-emergencies shall be handled on a case by case basis with no guarantee of an inspection. 

-bad wireless connections shall be rescheduled. 

Many other great ideas posted above.


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## Keystone

Virtual inspections for following load paths would seem to be difficult as with other multi floor level inspections.


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## Pcinspector1

Virtual inspections for footings may be problematic? 

Good luck on a rough-in can't see lumber grading when I'm there!


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## e hilton

Pcinspector1 said:


> Good luck on a rough-in can't see lumber grading when I'm there!


So if you can’t see it live, what do you do?  

Good points from several people.  But as long as you have live video and voice with the person on site, it can be done.  Just have him (or her) keep moving the camera to show you want you want to see.  If he doesn’t cooperate, terminate the call and fail the inspection.


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## linnrg

Years of inspecting has made me see lots of things the contractor never sees.  I posted a pipe penetration that was made in the labeled fire wall (see average day thread), at the time of that inspection there were 4 of the general contractors people in that large boiler room.  None of those people had even noticed. But i saw it in just a few seconds.

Yesterday the contractor was wanting me to approve some wallls at the hospital.  The GC said he was hoping to install the large cabinets to him I said have you checked the cabinet layout versus the location of the required existing rated access door to the fire damper?  Sure enough it was a conflict. I have so many times seen things that good contractors miss because I have been trained to look at all details.  I am currently trying to get some fire sprinkler obstructions taken care of that I am sure I was the only one to  notice.

So if the camera operator was very helpful and willing to act completely at my command - maybe.  I would have to say this might work for minor things but for me the camera must roll from the address proving front door on into the project.

I am not seeing this as a viable option.

For what it is worth. In a short while I will be doing a foundation inspection and it would sure be nice to not walk in the mud. The contractor is very good and very experienced but the crew he had there the other day were mostly new to me.
Typing on this GD tablet is driving me nuts!!!


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## ADAguy

Only for simple installs: Residential Hot water heaters, dishwasher's, others?
LA County trying this during virus.


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## my250r11

linnrg said:


> Typing on this GD tablet is driving me nuts!!!



Isn't that the truth.


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## Pcinspector1

e hilton said:


> So if you can’t see it live, what do you do?



Get a ladder!


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## steveray

If anyone needs/ wants, one of my good buddies put together a great remote video guideline...PM me


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## cda

Piling on

How many inspectors will be assigned to watch the video games

How many will be trained 


Will there be a que line for contractors to send video


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## e hilton

Pcinspector1 said:


> Get a ladder!


My point exactly.  If you would get a ladder, them make the person with the camera get on a ladder.  

I think this is a great idea.  Might not work for all inspections or all sites, but it will work for some.


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## cda

I keep trying to get my boss to let me inspect by drone.

Gos the job site

launch

it gets there

fly around, hover where needed

can do top to bottom


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## ADAguy

For certain instances as in above ladder height, drones are great.


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## fatboy

One of my guys did a basement rough-in inspection via FaceTime yesterday, he felt good about it, but the HO had professionals doing the plumbing and electrical. HO themselves might be challenging. I did not ask him how much time it took. We are launching as we can Monday. PM me if you want to see our protocol.


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## FM William Burns

I have been doing FaceTime inspections for two weeks now. Before asking, there is an app for android users or request an iPhone on site if they want the inspection. Yes, its is limiting to some extent but you can still get the majority of an inspection detail completed.

We have a disclaimer associated to C-19 and the responsibilities on owner/rdp/contractor with potential jail/fines etc. the disclaimer also allows us to come back anytime after the C-19 situation is over to verify compliance.

As a governmental service, to violate orders to stay home is not a problem since it is beyond my control. I request the customer to “stop” and I take a snapshot for anything I need to CYA on or for future documentation photo on non-compliance verification purposes (as needed). So as always, I try to find a win-win and get the project done.  It’s working as best as it can and we are making our way through a tough situation.  Note to self though (after my first FT inspection) wear a (company, department or official) shirt and not the “U” tee I wore...... lol.   Be safe all!!!!


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## e hilton

I read a story 20-something years ago about mary kay sales reps.  This is back before the internet.  They were told if they were going to sit home and makes sales calls, they should completely dress above the waist and do full makeup and hair etc, so when they were looking in the mirror on the desk and talking to the customer they saw themselves in a professional image.


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## cda

https://community.nfpa.org/communit...tions-rvi-when-access-to-buildings-is-limited


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## Pcinspector1

e hilton said:


> They were told if they were going to sit home and makes sales calls, they should completely dress above the waist and do full makeup and hair etc, so when they were looking in the mirror on the desk and talking to the customer they saw themselves in a professional image.



So I shouldn't be wearing my "Stones shirt", interesting


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## cda

Pcinspector1 said:


> So I shouldn't be wearing my "Stones shirt", interesting




And do not forget your make up


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## Pcinspector1

The hair needs to be cut for sure! Back to the 60's


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## ICE

I have been doing virtual inspections for a week.  Not that bad but it takes plenty of time.


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## classicT

ICE said:


> Another inspector sent this:
> 
> https://vimeo.com/user46533997/review/403802800/
> 
> I have been doing virtual inspections for a week.  Not that bad but it takes plenty of time.


FYI, broken link.


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## ICE

Ty J. said:


> FYI, broken link.



That’s a shame.....it’s a hoot. 

I’ve never had luck posting video.


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## FM William Burns

CDA, great info for those who have not begun the remote inspections and closing with the (wave, thumbs up or shaka motions). 

Even in these trying times we need to remember the importance of providing  good customer service. Three weeks into this virtual world, the inspections are pretty easy on the majority of occupancies we cover.

Our team has agreed to use our authority (if necessary) to conclude or suspend inspections when we encounter situations on equipment clarity or just feel a physical inspection is warranted due to the hazardous nature of an operation. In that event we just have to wait until this is over to get back to it. 

We still have to remember that we have no control over facility, operations or personnel in hazardous areas or facilities when we sign off.  

The nice thing in all this, I only have to shave on inspection(s) days and yard work is almost done........be safe all.


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## Pcinspector1

FM William Burns said:


> The nice thing in all this, I only have to shave on inspection(s) days



I actually didn't feel the need to shave, then was asked: "Are you going to shave?" Yes, I'm gonna shave today!

Those guys on the Hallmark channel can get away with a "two" or "three" no shave day, I for one can't pull that off!

Happy inspecting!


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## Sifu

We are doing them for limited, simple homeowner permits like water heaters, HVAC installs, basement finishes.  We haven't figured out the electrical final yet as far as I know, I think we are just deferring those until inspectors can go back in the house.  Seem to be working well.  We use whatever program is available; skype, whatsapp, I-phone (not sure what its called).


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## e hilton

iPhone is face time.   Cannot be done with androids unfortunately.


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## fatboy

There are several platforms for androids also.........


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## ICE

The inspection was for a water heater replacement.  Contractors are never present for water heater inspections.  The owner answered the phone.  I introduced myself and asked him if he was capable of facilitating a virtual inspection.  He said yes but he has never done anything similar to that.  He has an Android phone so ten minutes later we almost had Zoom installed on his Pixel phone.  Almost isn’t good enough so I decided that pictures would have to be the answer.  Ten minutes later he was almost able to take a picture and send it to my email.

Ten minutes is a long time to spend inspecting a water heater.....three is sufficient. Years ago a boy about six years old answered the door.  I asked if his parents were home and he said his mother was  and then he shut the door.  After a long five minutes I rang the door bell and the kid opened the door.  I asked about his mother and he said, “She’s in the bathroom putting on her makeup and she ain’t coming out until she’s done.”

Back to the virtual water heater inspection.  Three hours later a stream of twenty-two emails landed in my inbox. I answered with a request for more....several times.  Twenty-eight did the trick.

I heard from an inspector that spent near three hours inspecting an ADU for a final.  There were over twenty corrections and he wasn’t done.


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## e hilton

fatboy said:


> There are several platforms for androids also.........


Like Ice explains in the next post, android and iphone can do it with zoom, but it needs to be set up as a conference call.  Two iphones can instantly do facetime.


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## Keystone

Here’s a link for NFPA’s guidance on video inspection, it’s a generic baseline to put processes in order. 

https://community.nfpa.org/communit...tions-rvi-when-access-to-buildings-is-limited


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## Sifu

Lots of ways to skin that cat, some very simple...even with android, but all of them require some level of competent interaction on the other end.  These are trying times, and I applaud those AHJ's that are at least trying this.  If the homeowner can't get it done then they should get the contractor to do it.  If the contractor can't get it done then they wait out the apocalypse.


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## e hilton

Sifu said:


> If the homeowner can't get it done then they should get the contractor to do it.


Good point.  Why not require the contractor to be present for the video inspection.  After the first one or two, their skill level would be up, making them go better.  And if you asked for a specific view of the work, they would understand what you were asking for.


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## Sifu

I just talked to our inspections manager.  He said 90% are facetime.  The rest have mostly been google duo.  They start at the front door with permit and address, then walk to the inspection and/or plans as needed.  I seem to remember a few AHJ's that were already doing this, San Bernardino CA comes to mind.  They were doing it for geographic distancing, not social distancing.  I think if this is successful it could carry on to some extent after the apocalypse.  JUST LIKE ME WORKING FROM HOME!


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## ICE

I had four today.  A roof sheathing that went fine.  Next was a el service upgrade and solar.  The solar had not been commenced so it became just the panel.  It took an hour when an in-person inspection would likely take ten minutes to write the corrections and twenty minutes to explain the corrections.  The newly installed sub-panel had no permit and was mounted over a hole in the exterior wall with NM exiting the back.  The feeder for the panel was in a raceway traversing the roof.  2" above the roof, 1/0 aluminum wire on a 100 amp circuit.  Swimming pool with no GFCI protection for the equipment.  So you see there were run off the mill corrections, those and more which I can blast through when I am standing there but it takes a lot longer through a phone on his end.

The next two didn't happen because the contact person did not have Zoom or an iPhone or simply wasn't onsite.....that after I called him at 7:30 AM and told him I would do the inspection at 11:00AM.

Forty-five minutes worth of work took three hours.


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## FM William Burns

You can also have multiple people in FaceTime using the add + person feature. The biggest problems are connectivity lagging. Someone (typically the inspector) needs to direct the customer through the inspection and tell them when to stop, move camera left/right and hold still when you try to take a snapshot. If it’s a household have the parent get a 10 year or older child or teenager for assistance


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## fatboy

I have the caveat in my web posting about virtual that the inspector has the right to suspend the inspection at any point in time. I would expect my guys to pull the plug at 30 mins max.


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## e hilton

fatboy said:


> to pull the plug at 30 mins max.


So i have two conflicting thoughts on that.  1. In 30 min Ice is just getting warmed up.   2. In 3 min Ice has done a complete visual inspection and is formulating his rejection card quoting chapter and verse, and sarcastic comments.


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## MtnArch

I wouldn't characterize Ice's comments as "sarcastic."

"Snarky" does come to mind, though!

;-)


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## ICE

MtnArch said:


> I wouldn't characterize Ice's comments as "sarcastic."
> 
> "Snarky" does come to mind, though!
> 
> ;-)



You guys....you guys.....If only you knew how much I hold back.

I am starting to appreciate virtual inspections.  We have a committee that was formed to point us in the right direction for conducting virtual inspections.  
We also have a committee that was formed to decide if we should get saddles for the horses.  I think that they meet in secret because not many people know about that....actually it's only the people that I tell but they all shake their head in agreement.

Where I used to be done with ten inspections by one o'clock, four virtual inspections might run until noon.  It starts with a call between 7 and 8 am.  I get an email address and send them a guide explaining the need to help with this. They are half of the process so I need them to be somewhat educated.

From how to hold a camera phone to noise control, it’s there.  The guide outlines a request for a group of pictures that are tailored to the work at hand.  I ask them to send me the pictures beforehand.  That way I can get much of the legwork out of the way.

I can see where the temperature/pressure relief valve terminates and I don't have to ask someone on their end to find it during a virtual inspection.  Much of every inspection involves taking me there and show me .... pictures give me a quiet, uninterrupted moment to see clearly.

I can respond with a great deal of information.  This picture is an example.  The inspection was for a tankless water heater.  The owner handled the inspection and he pointed out that the contractor installed a sediment trap.  He was ever so slightly incredulous....like he was asking me if it was required.  Well not really....yes I know that it is in the code but the gas company is blase about it and it goes either way...but anyway it is done wrong....just about as wrong as it can be.  Now if I were there I would be explaining.....and explaining some more......but since I am not there I sent him pictures of what it should look like.





I have made guides for about eight types of project from solar to rewires.  I am working on more.  I guess I am a committee of one.  Well I do have another inspector that uses the guides.  They work great for some jobs and roofers love it but some people will not be able to help. And some inspectors will not be able to help.....that's just the way it is.

We do not give the applicant a guide for Virtual Inspections when they obtain a permit.  We don't even tell them that they might get a virtual inspection.  Many inspectors are doing physical inspections.  We are waiting on the committee and I get the feeling that the committee is going to kill virtual inspections.  That’s why I went my own way.  I was thrust into virtual inspections and want it to succeed for as long as I am doing it.  And I am selfish.

If we did give the applicant a guide they would not be surprised when I call them with the news.  They wouldn't be telling me that they don't have the ZOOM app loaded in their phone.  When they finally succeed in loading ZOOM I wouldn't have to teach them how to use it.  The dogs would be put away...saws and nailguns would stop...somebody that is familiar with construction and this particular job will be onsite...I don't always get the last one and depending on how bad it's going, the inspection might not take place.

Well that's the way it was at the beginning.  Now I send them instructions and tell them to stand by after they send the first batch of pictures.  I don't spend anymore time with them than I need.  I have plans on a big screen.  It is so much nicer and I didn't sit in a truck for three hours today.  I have worn out three new pickups...the latest one is the last one.

We require smoke and CO alarms with every permit.  No matter what you did, you will have them.  That has been a huge pain because contractors ignore the requirement and when we try to final a permit we are stuck with the owner explaining the law.  We have to make another (or three more) trip for the alarms.  Not anymore.  It is right there in the guide.  It takes a video starting from the street....well here I'll show you...

Smoke and CO Alarm Video
Start the video from the street.  Find the smoke and CO alarm in the hallway and any room with a door to a bedroom. Proceed to each bedroom and show the smoke alarm. Smoke and CO alarms are required on every level.  Show the interior of bedrooms to determine if there is a fireplace or fuel fired appliance such as a wall furnace, both of which require a CO alarm in that bedroom.

If that video isn't with the original batch of pictures.... sorry about that but it was clear when it said no video no inspection.  There! solved a huge problem....of course I don't get to go on roofs and that was a favorite for me....and hardly any pictures for the forum.....but this too shall pass and I won't have to do any of it soon enough.


I would like to add that in three months I haven’t had more than a few failures and nobody has complained.  The lack of complaints might be a result of the coronavirus and people not wanting visitors but many people have been enthusiastic.


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## ICE

One of the comments that I have heard from our VRI committee is that we can't do a thorough inspection and we will miss too much.  The following list is from an inspection that I performed today.  The inspection that was requested was for Framing and meps.  I haven't created a VRI guide for this type of inspection (yet) so it was somewhat herky jerky.  It was done with face time and the video was blurry and the signal was poor.  The connection dropped four times.  I was tempted to call it off but didn't.  At the next inspection I will request a ZOOM video and hope that it is clear. 

I may have missed some corrections....I am sure that I missed corrections....that happens whether I am there in person or not.  Had the meps work been completed the correction list would have been twice as long.  

The contractor didn't have a tape measure so I had to pretty much eyeball everything.  The kicker is that had I been doing an in person inspection I( probably would have cut it off at a dozen corrections....or not done it at all considering how much wasn't ready.  

The job is a 1200 sq.ft. detached ADU.


The shear wall that is designated #2 has not been constructed per plan.  The bottom plate and framing with edge nailing shall be 3"X.  

The anchor bolts at a #2 shear wall shall be spaced at a maximum, 24" apart.
Provide a special inspection report for the shear wall that is designated as a #2.

The electrical service panel has been let into a shear wall segment.  Relocate the panel or provide an engineered fix.
Detail #3 specifies a Simpson CB44 at the base of support posts at four locations.  The CB44 has been replaced with HD hardware.  Provide an engineered detail for the substitution.  Provide a special inspection report for the all-thread that was installed for the HD hardware.
The bottom plate has been interrupted where an underground feeder conduit enters the building.  Place anchor bolts on both side within 12" and no closer than 5".
Place anchor bolts at exterior walls within 12" and no closer than 5" from sill ends.
Detail #18 depicts the confluence of a 4"X ridge, 4"X hip and a 4"X valley with 4 5/8" lag bolts.  That has not been done.
Detail #6 depicts H2.5 hardware on each side of the rafters as they cross over the wall top plate.  That has not been done.
Detail #7 depicts the outriggers laying on top of the gable wall top plate rather than let in.  The first rafter is supposed to be doubled.  That was not done.

Detail #17 depicts 10 16d nails on each side of top plate splices.  That has not been done.
Seal top plate penetrations with an approved fireblock material.
Protect plumbing as it passes through framing with metal plates that extend a minimum 1.5" past each side of the pipe.
Install the windows for a framing inspection.
Install an exterior 120 volt receptacle outlet at the front and rear of the building
AFCI shall be required per the CEC.
GFCI shall be required per the CEC.

The trench for the feeder conduit that has undermined the existing house footing shall be filled with flow-able fill (slurry).
The plumbing, mechanical and electrical work has not been completed Ie. The water heater is not installed, five proposed mini-splits have not been installed, bathroom fans are not installed, much electrical work has not been completed.
Provide a structural observation report.
Provide a copy of the job card.
Thanks,
Tiger


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## e hilton

21 comments, several of which are show stoppers.  Was he really expecting to pass?   No tape measure should have been on the list.  
Can an afci and gfci be done by one device?


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## ICE

e hilton said:


> 21 comments, several of which are show stoppers.  Was he really expecting to pass?   No tape measure should have been on the list.
> Can an afci and gfci be done by one device?


This guy didn't get a VRI Guide for the inspection but you would think that a tape measure.......
AFCI and GFCI can both exist in a circuit breaker.

I posted the list of corrections because people from my department keep tabs on what I do here.     The problem I face is that just because I can make VRI work doesn't mean that other inspectors can pull it off.


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## e hilton

ICE said:


> The problem I face is that just because I can make VRI work doesn't mean that other inspectors can pull it off.


(start sarcastic font) If you can do it ... surely anyone can!


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## ICE

e hilton said:


> (start sarcastic font) If you can do it ... surely anyone can!



We have around 100.  Just for the Hell of it I'll demonstrate with examples from two of our better inspectors.  Shirley you'll understand.




It looks like he was parachuting at the time.






And people think that I make this stuff up.  Well I did tell a lie...only one of these two is any good.


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## tmurray

When I went to tech school to get my certificate in engineering technology, I spent almost the full year learning how to do lettering. There I was at 21, someone teaching me how to properly write the number 8. Two circles independent circles, one over the other one. There is no other "proper" way to write an 8. Of course we all complained how foolish it was. They taught us to print, then cursive, now back to printing, but all the printing they taught us the first time around was wrong. Then I got out of school and started having to try to read stuff written by engineers. They must take the same writing course that doctors do. I now definitely see the value in learning to print properly.


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## Keystone

Legible writing is one half of a very important component, the other half is forming a proper thought. Reading ICE’s top field correction notice clearly demonstrates the lack of clear thought or ones ability to convey that thought to paper.


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## mtlogcabin

In 1965 I spent 5th grade in summer school just to learn to properly print and cursive write.
Today some schools don't teach cursive and some don't care if a student can spell correctly.
During our interview process we have some paperwork we have interviewees fill out just to get an example of their handwriting and spelling abilities


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## mtlogcabin

Keystone
You could actually read that mess


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## Keystone

mtlogcabin said:


> Keystone
> You could actually read that mess



It’s sew mucth gooder thenan myne.


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## steveray

I'm pretty good at chicken scratch and that was a little tough to read...The "no joints in gas" was even tougher to read....But Hey!...Maybe they were all unions instead of couplings? I wasn't there for the inspection...LOL


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## ICE

steveray said:


> I'm pretty good at chicken scratch and that was a little tough to read...The "no joints in gas" was even tougher to read....But Hey!...Maybe they were all unions instead of couplings? I wasn't there for the inspection...LOL



It was a residential addition.  By the way, I would not allow ground joint unions....even behind access panels.


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## ICE

mtlogcabin said:


> Keystone
> You could actually read that mess



On several occasions In have been presented with a correction slip with the question, "What does this say?" I have had to say, "You're going to have to help me help you, what was the inspection for?"

This guy is not the worst that I've worked with. I have had to tell them to ask the guy that did it.


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## ADAguy

cda said:


> 1. What medium would be used or accepted
> 
> 2. How would it get from contractor to city
> 
> 3. How will the city store it
> 
> 4. Does the city have the storage capability
> 
> 5. Quality of product



"Bluebeam" maybe the answer.


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## ICE

The request slip said drywall.

Under normal circumstances there would be a possibility to inspect from pictures.  However the job has two permits.  Plumbing for a pex repipe and building for drywall.  That sounds a lot like a B license but the drywall mentioned on the permit made it sound like a lot happened.  There is a bunch of drywall replaced in the garage on the walls and the ceiling.  So I thought it would be a good idea to see for myself.  The contractor had no clue if the PEX passed inspection and then there's the grounding.

So the contractor says that he can't be there until after 2:00 but the owner can do a face time call.  I called the owner and yes he said that he was prepared for a face time call. I tried and failed with the ipad, failed with the iphone and failed with the macbook. So I called the owner again and found out that he doesn't have an iphone.

I explained the situation to the owner and asked him to rely on the contractor for the inspection.  Then I get a call from the contractor and I explain it to him.

So I commenced inspections with the rest of my customers.  That involved several lengthy inspections during which the clueless contractor initiated 5 Face Time calls, 13 phone calls and a load of text messages.

At around 11:30 I answered the thirteenth call and told the contractor that I was in the middle of an inspection and would call him when I got done.  At around noon I initiated a Face Time call.  The contractor was driving down the street.  He then tells me that the owners daughter has an Iphone.

I blocked his phone number.  I wanted to do that sooner but I was in one inspection after another.

I contacted the owner and did the face time on his daughter's iphone.   Primarily because the contractor had mentioned that the water heater was removed for the drywall work and I figured, correctly, that the occupants have no hot water.  Reason # 49 why you should never hire a restoration company.


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## ICE

I have been performing virtual inspections for six months.  Nobody had a template.  There was no training.  The AHJ had nothing to offer.  I had to figure it out while doing it. In the beginning I was skeptical.  I now know that I should have done this years ago.

I do not have confidence that VRI will grow legs in the AHJ where I work. For the near term I will be able to continue but when the pandemic is over we will revert to the Flintstones. It will be difficult to return to duty when that happens. For starters, I’ll need a new wardrobe and a smaller steering wheel.


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## north star

*$ = $*

ICE Man,

I think that the Scam-Demic or some affects of it will be a long term
condition...…...It won't be so bad reverting back to the stone age,
afterall, Fred & Barney both had hotty wives ( Wilma & Betty ) and
all of the brontosaurus burgers & ribs that they could eat.

*$ = $*


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## ICE

north star said:


> *$ = $*
> 
> ICE Man,
> 
> I think that the Scam-Demic or some affects of it will be a long term
> condition...…...It won't be so bad reverting back to the stone age,
> afterall, Fred & Barney both had hotty wives ( Wilma & Betty ) and
> all of the brontosaurus burgers & ribs that they could eat.
> 
> *$ = $*


That's where the term " She's a Betty" came from


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## ICE

The AHJ that employs me has determined that virtual inspections are winding down.  All inspectors will be required to repopulate the office and perform in-person inspections.

I have nineteen months of strictly virtual inspections.  Here is some of what I know so far:

1.  There is a place for virtual inspection (VI).  That place has boundaries.  Some work should always be inspected remotely while other work might never qualify for a virtual inspection.  Roofing should always be a VI.  Framing and  rough MEPs seldom make sense for a VI.  Smoke and CO alarm inspection should always be a video or live stream and I could write a paragraph on that benefit.  Oh mygoodness do inspectors loathe alarm inspections.  That's good for two to five trips.

2.  The entire concept relies on the performance of the constituent. HVAC and water heater replacement inspections are universally the responsibility of the occupant.  They answer the door and the inspector takes it from there.  With a VI that same occupant is now the inspector.  We get to see as much as the occupant can show us. That can be so disjointed, blurry and shaky as to be no inspection.  Hence #4

4.  Pictures are welcome for all VI and mandatory for some VI.  A furnace requires pictures.  Solar and electric panels as well as storage batteries require pictures.  I speak from the experience of attempting to inspect these with just a live stream with a camera phone.  Anything other than quality photos that allow me to study the work is foolish.
Therein lies a deal breaker for many. VI is limited by outside forces.

5.  The long term viability of VI is contingent upon forewarning the constituent.  At the time of permit issuance there must be exposure to the concept.  If people understood the many benefits of VI, more would opt in.  The tedious facets would evaporate.

Tedious facets?  I have to call the requestor and ask them if VI would be possible.  They are caught unaware.  That takes explanation which they need to consider.  They might have to contact a coworker before committing.  They might need to learn how to operate a camera phone.  Downloading pictures to a cloud file…and on it goes.  Had they been exposed to this a month ago the chore would not be tiresome.  Not to mention the lost time.

The people that were expecting a virtual inspection had no expectation of what is required.  When I contact them on the day of the inspection it is the first time that they hear about taking pictures.  Then conversation takes place on the details of cloud storage because email can’t handle the files.
Sadly, we have never figured any of this out.  It's not like I haven't told anyone.  


7.  I approached VI as I do with the rest of the job.  I created thirty-three handouts for everything from a service panel upgrade to a swimming pool demo but none of it caught on with anyone but me.  I will be done with it before it emerges from beta testing.


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## e hilton

You skipped items 3 & 6.    :}

My doctor does virtual visits for some followup stuff.  Works ok, except they can’t even do things as simple as BP, pulse and temp.  “So how is you cough?  Still bothering you?”   Hmm … maybe you should use a stethoscope to listen to my breathing. Oh yeah ... not possible.  

Anyway,when i have a virtual call, there are at least 2 pre-calls with some assisant who has to test my connection and abilities.  I don’t see the benefit.  Now what i do like ... my doctors practice has a website where i can send messages and get a reply in a day.  Prescription renewals.  Test results.  Hey, my back still hurts, do you want me to come in or change the medicine?


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## ICE

e hilton said:


> You skipped items 3 & 6.    :}


#3 reflected poorly on the AHJ and #6 was downright mean and like I said, this is just some of what I know…..


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## Rick18071

I wish I could do virtual inspections. Sometimes i need to drive 4 hours round trip for a simple 100 Amp re-connection service inspection. But the utility companies require me to put a sticker on the meter. 
I'm a 3rd party electrical party inspector in 5 counties where the in house building inspector requires to see my sticker at the rough and final inspections. On a good day I can fit 3 inspections in 8 hours.
Over 100 townships and boroughs, and 3 electrical companies would have to change their ways for me to do virtual inspections.


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## ICE

For a bunch of reasons, I have soured on the concept of Remote Virtual Inspections.  Yesterday I attended a webinar related to RVI.  There’s an elephant in the room.  I might create a YouTube video and give the elephant a name.


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## patrickjames

ICC   Recommended Practices for Remote Virtual Inspections (RVI)


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## ICE

patrickjames said:


> ICC   Recommended Practices for Remote Virtual Inspections (RVI)


ICC hosted the webinar that I mentioned.  The purpose was to demonstrate the RVI software that is sold by Inspected.Com which is a Florida based company. There are a few such companies with slick software.  The programs will schedule inspections, record pictures and video and keep track of the results.  You can even take over the phone that is being used to show the work....you can zoom in and turn on the flashlight. Geotagging is built in so you can verify the location.

What the programs can't do is control the conditions on the other end.....can't teach the English language....or how to follow simple commands....can't ensure a decent wifi connection or a compatible phone....can't tech someone the basics of Skype, Zoom, Google Duo, FaceTime, etc....can't be sure that everything that should be seen was seen....can't .. can't .. can't....there's lots of downside and probably the biggest can't is that you are forced to have a level of trust in the result that just isn't realistic.

During the webinar a RVI inspection was performed.  The inspection was a UFER connection to a rebar.  They showed the clamp and since the wire was 1/0 they also showed the marking on the insulation.  They did not show the length of the bar.  That was it....just the UFER connetion.  They mentioed that it would take ten times longer to get there than it did to perform the inspection.  Then the contractor pointed out that the footing and slab inspection would be inspected in-person as it too complicated for RVI.  Now I don't know about you, but I would expect to look at the UFER when I was inspecting the footing.....but hey now, they needed an example RVI and it was that.

There are quite a few YouTube videos showing jurisdictions hosting RVIs.  All are staged like Pawn Stars. I think that they don't know what they don't know.

One from my experience:
The RVI was for the drywall of a new SFD.  I had not done any inspections there before the drywall.  The job card was signed with approvals for framing and rough meps.  There was three bedrooms and four closets.  I missed an electric panel located in a bedroom closet.  Not only was it in a closet, but there was two feet clearance in front of the panel.  The violation was caught at the final inspection by another inspector during an in-person inspection.  That inspector had not done any inspections at that property prior to the final inspection.

I can't say for sure why I missed the panel.  The signed job card is no excuse because I always pay attention for such things as this.  Perhaps I saw enough drywall to be complacent about the rest of it or could it be that the contractor hid the fact, which I doubt.  Needless to say, the owner was upset and blamed the inspectors, including me.


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## patrickjames

While I was out because my family had a cold , i used RVI for insulation inspections and some emergency no power inspections with contractors i felt comfortable with. 

It should be up to the inspector to decide if they will accept and what they will not accept doing the RVI.


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## patrickjames

ICE said:


> For a bunch of reasons, I have soured on the concept of Remote Virtual Inspections.  Yesterday I attended a webinar related to RVI.  There’s an elephant in the room.  I might create a YouTube video and give the elephant a name.


I would watch.


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## ICE

patrickjames said:


> I would watch.


My last day as an employed inspector is a few weeks away.  After that I plan to make a few videos.  I’ll let you know when that happens.


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## e hilton

ICE said:


> My last day as an employed inspector is a few weeks away.


Whoa.  Did i miss an announcement?   Voluntary retirement i hope.


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## ICE

e hilton said:


> Whoa.  Did i miss an announcement?   Voluntary retirement i hope.


The decision was mine alone and the reasons are many but voluntary hardly fits.  I am an old dog that likes to learn new tricks so I might reinvent myself ....or if the world gets back to normal I could return to old habits in a new pen.


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## steveray

ICE said:


> The decision was mine alone and the reasons are many but voluntary hardly fits.  I am an old dog that likes to learn new tricks so I might reinvent myself ....or if the world gets back to normal I could return to old habits in a new pen.


As long as you stay here, we are good and grateful for what you do...


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## Katy.Kjelvik

north star said:


> *$ = $*
> 
> ICE Man,
> 
> I think that the Scam-Demic or some affects of it will be a long term
> condition...…...It won't be so bad reverting back to the stone age,
> afterall, Fred & Barney both had hotty wives ( Wilma & Betty ) and
> all of the brontosaurus burgers & ribs that they could eat.
> 
> *$ = $*


The one thing I hate about my profession - men like you. I do NOT appreciate the verbiage & the remarks made.  "both had hotty wives" Really?! Is it 1950?


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## ICE

Katy.Kjelvik said:


> The one thing I hate about my profession - men like you. I do NOT appreciate the verbiage & the remarks made.  "both had hotty wives" Really?! Is it 1950?


One thing that you will not find on a job site is a female construction worker.  I have met a few women contractors and solar companies have hired women to sit for inspections…..but wearing bags and handling a worm drive….doesn’t happen.

A woman looking in at men at work would benefit from thick skin.  I am an unrepentant misogynistic Luddite and I must say, Shirley this forum has been remarkably respectful towards the fairer sex.


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## tmurray

Katy.Kjelvik said:


> The one thing I hate about my profession - men like you. I do NOT appreciate the verbiage & the remarks made.  "both had hotty wives" Really?! Is it 1950?


Men...? I think you just assumed someone's gender. 

A couple of months ago I was performing an inspection when a contractor asked me where "sugar tits" was. He was referring to my female assistant building inspector. What followed was a very uncomfortable conversation for him where I informed him how idiotic it was to call a building inspector that and how it would damage his business in our town. He now calls her by her name.


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## e hilton

Katy.Kjelvik said:


> The one thing I hate about my profession - men like you. I do NOT appreciate the verbiage & the remarks made.  "both had hotty wives" Really?! Is it 1950?


And one thing i hate is (usually) attractive women who wear too-short-for-business skirts or low cleavage blouses, and manage to strike provocative poses around men.  Don’t dress like saturday night when you want to be treated like a business person and be respected for your skills.


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## mtlogcabin

ICE said:


> One thing that you will not find on a job site is a female construction worker


You need to visit Montana and I will introduce you to a few laborer's, drywall finishers, painters, and lay in ceilings installers who are women and do an excellent job.


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## ICE

mtlogcabin said:


> You need to visit Montana and I will introduce you to a few laborer's, drywall finishers, painters, and lay in ceilings installers who are women and do an excellent job.


Thanks but I'm a married man.

In a state with way less people than most state capitols I am not surprised.

I ran a construction company located at Chico Ca.  The HR dept. came to me and said that we have a problem in that there are no females on the construction crew.  I told her that women do not come around looking for work.  I said bring a woman and I will put her to work.  I suggested that they find a minority woman as we didn't have any minorities either.

Well sure enough up pops a girl.  We had a lot of butt to siding so I gave her a caulk gun and set her to work.  She went home with a tube of caulk on her clothes and one in her hair.  One day was all it took.


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## ICE

e hilton said:


> And one thing i hate is (usually) attractive women who wear too-short-for-business skirts or low cleavage blouses, and manage to strike provocative poses around men.  Don’t dress like saturday night when you want to be treated like a business person and be respected for your skills.


I had a contractor on the hook for working without a permit.  The fee was doubled for that mistake.  The contractor sent a doll to obtain the permit.  She was flirtations and her chest was like "Here ya go, have one"  Several times she implored me to waive the double fee.  When I was getting close to finalizing the transaction she laid it on thick...well actually on the counter.  I told her that I couldn't waive the fee but I could give her a note for her boss telling him how much I appreciated the effort.


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## steveray

Betcha this is the last time Northstar makes a comment about a cartoon character....Be careful about what you say about bugs bunny wearing a dress...


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## ICE

steveray said:


> Betcha this is the last time Northstar makes a comment about a cartoon character....Be careful about what you say about bugs bunny wearing a dress...


Pepe La Pew is a candidate. Also banned in our woke society.


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## Keystone

I’ve used & still occasionally use GotoAssist, I share some of ICE’s sentiment on the end user, connection and English. The speed and accuracy of the inspection can be controlled and if it can’t then they reschedule when better conditions or schedule an onsite inspection.

I’ve also participated in ICC’s partner company presentation, they completed a mock HVAC change out. The features are great but again it comes down to end user concerns.  

Maybe 5G will magically cure all the connection issues


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## ICE

Keystone said:


> I’ve used & still occasionally use GotoAssist, I share some of ICE’s sentiment on the end user, connection and English. The speed and accuracy of the inspection can be controlled and if it can’t then they reschedule when better conditions or schedule an onsite inspection.
> 
> I’ve also participated in ICC’s partner company presentation, they completed a mock HVAC change out. The features are great but again it comes down to end user concerns.
> 
> Maybe 5G will magically cure all the connection issues


I haven't viewed an ICC presentation for HVAC replacement.  Was it A/C and a furnace?  I consitantly find corrections for HVAC so it would be interesting to see the presentation, do you have a link?


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## Keystone

It was just the condenser and it was live when they initially promoted hard, not recorded. It was absolutely a cherry picked presentation to promote the product not so much about the actuals an inspection we would perform.


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## Keystone

ICE said:


> I haven't viewed an ICC presentation for HVAC replacement.  Was it A/C and a furnace?  I consitantly find corrections for HVAC so it would be interesting to see the presentation, do you have a link?


It was just the condenser and it was live when they initially promoted hard, not recorded. It was absolutely a cherry picked presentation to promote the product not so much about the actuals an inspection we would perform.


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## e hilton

Katy.Kjelvik said:


> I do hope you leave the profession. You are giving it a bad name.


Do you find it tiring to be so righteous all the time?


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## Katy.Kjelvik

tmurray said:


> Men...? I think you just assumed someone's gender.
> 
> A couple of months ago I was performing an inspection when a contractor asked me where "sugar tits" was. He was referring to my female assistant building inspector. What followed was a very uncomfortable conversation for him where I informed him how idiotic it was to call a building inspector that and how it would damage his business in our town. He now calls her by her name.


THANK YOU!!!


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## Katy.Kjelvik

e hilton said:


> Do you find it tiring to be so righteous all the time?


I find it exuberating to call it as I see it.


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## Katy.Kjelvik

e hilton said:


> And one thing i hate is (usually) attractive women who wear too-short-for-business skirts or low cleavage blouses, and manage to strike provocative poses around men.  Don’t dress like saturday night when you want to be treated like a business person and be respected for your skills.


Wow.


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## ICE

Katy, 
Personal attack is not tolerated.  

Thanks,
ICE


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## Katy.Kjelvik




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## jar546

This has gone way off topic so I will be locking out this thread after a few private messages pointing this out to me.  Sorry but we are done here folks.


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