# Dead End?



## steveray (Oct 18, 2016)

New auto parts store, would you folks call this a dead end for egress purposes? I believe it is bounded by exterior wall on one side and full storage racks on the other up to a soffit (think those gravity feed oil container racks) with no real openness....Thanks!


----------



## ADAguy (Oct 18, 2016)

A storage room, how many feet from back wall to hose nozzel?


----------



## cda (Oct 18, 2016)

I vote NO

Would help to see more floor plan


----------



## steveray (Oct 18, 2016)

I assume those are radiator hoses and the like on the South "wall" of oil containers...No hose nozzle...I don't think I can call it a room if it is 4' wide..


----------



## Francis Vineyard (Oct 18, 2016)

No; IMO it's an occupiable space (storage area) with an exit access whereas dead end apply to corridors that are enclosed exit access components that serves an occupant load.


----------



## Francis Vineyard (Oct 18, 2016)

There are no edit features and this time; add to the last sentence "from a space"


----------



## ADAguy (Oct 18, 2016)

Is the space sprinklered?


----------



## Paul Sweet (Oct 19, 2016)

Wouldn't common path of travel be the thing to check?


----------



## steveray (Oct 19, 2016)

No sprinklers, CPET is <75, so that is OK. I some people view corridors as strictly traditional walls, but I am not sure I agree with that approach...

CORRIDOR. An enclosed exit access component that defines and provides a path of egress travel to an exit.


----------



## Keystone (Oct 19, 2016)

IMO the sticking point with the definition of Corridor, "an enclosed exit". However the remainder of the definition would fit as proposed


----------



## Francis Vineyard (Oct 19, 2016)

Generally for other than dwellings there are no minimum dimensions for rooms as long it provides for the minimum egress width and accessible route.


----------



## Francis Vineyard (Oct 19, 2016)

Still no edit feature


----------



## Examiner (Oct 19, 2016)

I agree it is a common path of travel requirement first.  If the common path of travel from the remote point of the room to a point where two different means of egress can be taken is exceeded then the back room will require another means of egress from the backroom.  If it is under the common path of travel distance then there is no problem.  Also if from the remote point of the room the travel distance to an exit is in compliance; then the larger space would need two means of egress because at some point out of the back room the common path of travel going into the larger space will be exceeded and two means of egress will be required.


----------



## JBI (Oct 20, 2016)

*1020.4 Dead ens. *Where more than one_ exit _or _exit access doorway_ is required...

First question I have is 'how many exit or exit access doorways are *required*?'


----------



## steveray (Oct 20, 2016)

JBI said:


> *1020.4 Dead ens. *Where more than one_ exit _or _exit access doorway_ is required...
> 
> First question I have is 'how many exit or exit access doorways are *required*?'



From the building, 3......From that spot, 1. But if that was the intent you would never have a dead end because you would always have to meet CPET? and why would dead ends be a lesser distance than CPET?


----------



## steveray (Oct 20, 2016)

Francis Vineyard said:


> No; IMO it's an occupiable space (storage area) with an exit access whereas dead end apply to corridors that are enclosed exit access components that serves an occupant load.



Don't you calc storage spaces at 300 gross? How can you say no OL?


----------



## cda (Oct 20, 2016)

steveray said:


> From the building, 3......From that spot, 1. But if that was the intent you would never have a dead end because you would always have to meet CPET? and why would dead ends be a lesser distance than CPET?




Because once you hit the dead end

You have to back track 

Adding time and distance to getting out


----------



## ADAguy (Oct 20, 2016)

on a parrallel note, are the racks tied down for seismic?


----------



## JBI (Oct 21, 2016)

Dead ends are a lesser distance than CPET because CPET includes the distance from wherever you are in a building, while 'dead ends' are specific to corridors and not sending people in a direction they can't egress from. Calling a long narrow storage room a 'corridor' is, at best, a stretch of the imagination. 
From the remainder of the occupancy, are there exit signs directing anyone to egress through the storage room?
If so then you have a dead end. 
If not you only have CPET and travel distance to look at.


----------



## steveray (Oct 21, 2016)

I think I am probably going to concede on this one, although I don't like the concept of a 75' long 4' wide storage room full of rubber and oil, non sprinklered with one way out.


----------



## tmurray (Oct 21, 2016)

Under our code, corridors serve occupancies. This would be permitted under our code as well. 

I agree it's certainly not ideal. I would certainly make sure proper exiting signs and lighting are provided


----------



## Francis Vineyard (Oct 21, 2016)

Hope this illustration help clarify how dead ends are in relations to the exit access pathway within the corridors


----------



## fatboy (Oct 21, 2016)

steveray said:


> I think I am probably going to concede on this one, although I don't like the concept of a 75' long 4' wide storage room full of rubber and oil, non sprinklered with one way out.



Me neither...........


----------



## JBI (Oct 21, 2016)

If it makes you feel any better, there are a lot of things in the Codes that I don't particularly like.


----------



## Paul Sweet (Oct 21, 2016)

A long narrow room might look like a corridor but it isn't one.  A corridor takes you from a room to an exit.  Dead end limits only apply to corridors.


----------



## steveray (Oct 21, 2016)

So I can put a chair in any corridor and call it a room because there is a chair in it....Dumb....Maybe it is a nonissue because of some other code requirements, but it just feels wrong.


----------



## ADAguy (Oct 27, 2016)

No, a chair is a "movable" obstruction but if it were a projecting obstruction such as a DF or a desk and chair with a receptionist, then we have an issue as to use of the circulation space (corridor).

Also don't fire hose lengths and hose streams still come into play or are they obsolete?


----------



## cda (Oct 27, 2016)

ADAguy said:


> No, a chair is a "movable" obstruction but if it were a projecting obstruction such as a DF or a desk and chair with a receptionist, then we have an issue as to use of the circulation space (corridor).
> 
> Also don't fire hose lengths and hose streams still come into play or are they obsolete?



Used by firefighters or occupants??


----------



## mark handler (Oct 27, 2016)

High pile combustible storage?


----------



## cda (Oct 27, 2016)

mark handler said:


> High pile combustible storage?




Boy are we going down a dead end.

Yes, if hoses are required, they would have to be spaced per code.


----------



## Paul Sweet (Oct 27, 2016)

"So I can put a chair in any corridor and call it a room because there is a chair in it....Dumb"

 NO!  Read the definition in IBC chapter 2.  A corridor is "an enclosed exit access component that defines and provides a path of egress travel."  A corridor is subject to dead end restrictions, even if it has chairs in it.


----------



## steveray (Oct 28, 2016)

Paul Sweet said:


> "So I can put a chair in any corridor and call it a room because there is a chair in it....Dumb"
> 
> NO!  Read the definition in IBC chapter 2.  A corridor is "an enclosed exit access component that defines and provides a path of egress travel."  A corridor is subject to dead end restrictions, even if it has chairs in it.



But not if it has stock on the walls...Where is the line...It's a narrow waiting room for one person!


----------



## cda (Oct 28, 2016)

steveray said:


> But not if it has stock on the walls...Where is the line...It's a narrow waiting room for one person!




It is not a corridor 


How do you get one hour rating from stock


----------



## mark handler (Oct 28, 2016)

"stock room", same occupancy as store, no fire rating.


----------

