# Inspection fines



## CBOGUY (Feb 26, 2019)

Officials/Inspectors,

How do you address fines as it relates to demolishing homes without a permit?

Do you *double fine* them for the building permit or do you double fine them for the demo permit?

Generally- How have you address these issues within your jurisdiction?

Thanks


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## classicT (Feb 26, 2019)

Demo only. Any fees or fines would be limited to the permit that should have been pulled.

If demo occurs and new work begins, then both.


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## ICE (Feb 26, 2019)

We wouldn't levy a fine.


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## JCraver (Feb 27, 2019)

We wouldn't either.  We'd tell you you messed up, make you get the permit you should have gotten in the first place, and roll on.

I don't know if that's the "right" way or not, but it's how my bosses want it done...


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## tmurray (Feb 27, 2019)

It depends... If is someone who knows they should have gotten a permit then we double the fees for the permit they didn't get. If someone appears to legitimately not know they were supposed to get a permit we don't double the fees.


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## Rick18071 (Feb 27, 2019)

Usually here the demo is part of the building permit if they are building right away. We would double the fee.


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 27, 2019)

No demo permits here
No double permit fees here an no fines for anything unless it goes to court


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## fatboy (Feb 27, 2019)

I operate like tmurray, if I know that they know they should have, double the demo permit fee. If it was a genuine mistake by a rookie, then I will let it slide.


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## tmurray (Feb 28, 2019)

The important thing to remember is that our job is not enforcement. Our job is always compliance. Sometimes we need to do enforcement to get compliance, but I have found, and I feel most on here would agree, that working with contractors gains compliance easier and faster than simply being an enforcement body. Ultimately, it is our responsibility to achieve compliance in the most cost effective way. The formula is likely a little different from one place to the next, but I would be surprised if it was drastically different.


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## CBOGUY (Mar 4, 2019)

Thanks everyone for the information, Tmurray example is what I normally do.


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## Pcinspector1 (Mar 5, 2019)

Just a little more to add, if your entity chooses to "Double the permit fee" it should be backed by an ordinance unless the code you adopted has a section that allows it. Other than that, a summons to court with what ever violation they have committed is usually the enforcement path. But I think most people know there's a permit for demolition the issue maybe their perspective of what demolition means? Is pulling off paneling demo work requiring a permit?

Example: A house flipper working after hours might need a demo permit, might not?


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## fatboy (Mar 5, 2019)

Pcinspector1 said:


> Just a little more to add, if your entity chooses to "Double the permit fee" it should be backed by an ordinance unless the code you adopted has a section that allows it. Other than that, a summons to court with what ever violation they have committed is usually the enforcement path. But I think most people know there's a permit for demolition the issue maybe their perspective of what demolition means? Is pulling off paneling demo work requiring a permit?
> 
> Example: A house flipper working after hours might need a demo permit, might not?



Yes, my right to levy the double fee is amended into the IBC, IFC and IRC, surprisingly it is already in most of the other codes.


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## my250r11 (Mar 5, 2019)

JCraver said:


> We wouldn't either. We'd tell you you messed up, make you get the permit you should have gotten in the first place, and roll on.
> 
> I don't know if that's the "right" way or not, but it's how my bosses want it done...



This is our policy with demos. Mostly glad to get them done by owners than us having to do them as our budget is limited for this. Doubling is what we do for other permits. By the way our demo permits are only $5, we want them to get rid of the old dilapidated structures.


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## tmurray (Mar 6, 2019)

We also may need to be careful about calling the doubled fees a "fine". Here, I cannot fine someone without also providing them with a court date.


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## ADAguy (Apr 4, 2019)

tmurray said:


> The important thing to remember is that our job is not enforcement. Our job is always compliance. Sometimes we need to do enforcement to get compliance, but I have found, and I feel most on here would agree, that working with contractors gains compliance easier and faster than simply being an enforcement body. Ultimately, it is our responsibility to achieve compliance in the most cost effective way. The formula is likely a little different from one place to the next, but I would be surprised if it was drastically different.


Yes "but" as contractors they are suppose to "know" that a permit is required and not to begin work without one (in a perfect world).
If it "exists" then it must be permitted to remove it, failure to do so can lead to all sorts of issues.


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## chris kennedy (Apr 4, 2019)

Should be a heavy fine IMO.
Lead and asbestos gets airborne.


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## ICE (Apr 4, 2019)

chris kennedy said:


> Lead and asbestos gets airborne.



A permit isn’t going to change that.


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## mtlogcabin (Apr 4, 2019)

A lot of states exempt homeowners from abatement requirements when doing the work themselves


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## tmurray (Apr 8, 2019)

ADAguy said:


> Yes "but" as contractors they are suppose to "know" that a permit is required and not to begin work without one (in a perfect world).
> If it "exists" then it must be permitted to remove it, failure to do so can lead to all sorts of issues.


If it is a contractor. What if it is someone throwing an old shed in the back of their truck to run to the dump on a Saturday? They didn't even think to look to see if they needed a permit. Even if they did, most people can't interpret legal documents.


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## my250r11 (Apr 8, 2019)

tmurray said:


> What if it is someone throwing an old shed in the back of their truck to run to the dump on a Saturday?



Less than 200sf I don't care lol


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## jar546 (Apr 8, 2019)

Just about every municipality charges 4x the permit fee if caught working without a permit.  It certainly curbs trying to get away without one.


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