# Butane used in the oil-extraction process



## cda (May 19, 2020)

Bbutane used in the oil-extraction process can ignite from heat, a spark or an open flame.

So does anyone know about how big the containers are, that this comes in??


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## Enri Code (May 19, 2020)

Butane for oil extraction process tells me this is a cannabis operation. CBD oil? Butane tanks/ canisters for this are usually 20 or 120 pounds each.
I wonder how many were stored and if there were any extenuating factors that also could have made it a lot worse... say a gas line getting affected...
I just couldn't imagine that a regular sized CBD operation would store enough butane to cause such a massive explosion.
I am hoping no one got hurt.


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## ADAguy (May 19, 2020)

Enri Code said:


> Butane for oil extraction process tells me this is a cannabis operation. CBD oil? Butane tanks for this are usually 20 or 120 pounds.
> I wonder how many were stored and if there were any extenuating factors that also could have made it a lot worse... say a gas line getting affected...
> I just couldn't imagine that a regular sized CBD operation would store enough butane to cause such a massive explosion.
> I am hoping no one got hurt.


10 fireman were injured/burned. Should there not have been signs indicating hazardous materials inside?


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## cda (May 19, 2020)

ADAguy said:


> 10 fireman were injured/burned. Should there not have been signs indicating hazardous materials inside?




The process supposedly is not allowed anywhere in California??

Guess does not meet calif. Standards

Does not have the California state fire marshal seal of approval


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## FM William Burns (May 19, 2020)

First and foremost my prayers are lifted for our colleagues at LAFD.   Butane is a pretty common hydrocarbon used for cannabis oil extraction. With that, the use of it and other (ane’s) are strongly regulated in the industry in accordance with NFPA 1 and IFC and referenced codes and standards. Quantities of storage and control areas all are applicable as is the use and protection of such use within structures. The codes are specific as to where and how it is used in this industry as they are In identifying locations where it is used including building exteriors. 

NFPA 1 requires all operations to have equipment designers or 3rd party engineering approvals of equipment layouts and configuration prior to use. Operators must have equipment manufacturer’s training and approval and continued education and training maintained. Transfilling is not permitted inside buildings and safety measures are also regulated for post-oil processing.

I would never speculate as to what caused this incident but can say with extreme confidence that illegal activity, non-compliant processes, equipment and activity coupled with human error is a leading contributive factor with hazardous incidents within these facilities.


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## cda (May 19, 2020)

FM William Burns said:


> First and foremost my prayers are lifted for our colleagues at LAFD.   Butane is a pretty common hydrocarbon used for cannabis oil extraction. With that, the use of it and other (ane’s) are strongly regulated in the industry in accordance with NFPA 1 and IFC and referenced codes and standards. Quantities of storage and control areas all are applicable as is the use and protection of such use within structures. The codes are specific as to where and how it is used in this industry as they are In identifying locations where it is used including building exteriors.
> 
> NFPA 1 requires all operations to have equipment designers or 3rd party engineering approvals of equipment layouts and configuration prior to use. Operators must have equipment manufacturer’s training and approval and continued education and training maintained. Transfilling is not permitted inside buildings and safety measures are also regulated for post-oil processing.
> 
> I would never speculate as to what caused this incident but can say with extreme confidence that illegal activity, non-compliant processes, equipment and activity coupled with human error is a leading contributive factor with hazardous incidents within these facilities.



So what is the normal size butane container you see??

And at on facility average quantity on hand ?


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## Enri Code (May 20, 2020)

ADAguy said:


> 10 fireman were injured/burned. Should there not have been signs indicating hazardous materials inside?



The firemen getting hurt is just awful. I'm just now catching up with the news coverage about it. Some things that jumped out at me about the news reports are the mentions that butane tanks/ canisters were seen at the exterior and that cannabis oil extraction - though legal in the state - is not allowed to be done in an urban core and is supposed to be done in industrial zones. An investigation is ongoing as it should be and I hope valuable lessons are generated from that.


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## Enri Code (May 20, 2020)

FM William Burns said:


> I would never speculate as to what caused this incident but can say with extreme confidence that illegal activity, non-compliant processes, equipment and activity coupled with human error is a leading contributive factor with hazardous incidents within these facilities.



My thoughts as well.

I do expect that there should still be a review of current codes and standards that will probably need to happen because of incidents like this just because the cannabis oil industry is relatively in its infancy and I'm sure we still have lots to learn especially as we resolve the ideal and prescriptive versus what that industry is actually practicing as a whole.


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## cda (May 20, 2020)

Ok, maybe it is legal:::


https://www.pe.com/2016/10/15/marijuana-honey-oil-labs-ok-under-new-california-law/


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## Enri Code (May 20, 2020)

cda said:


> Ok, maybe it is legal:::
> 
> 
> https://www.pe.com/2016/10/15/marijuana-honey-oil-labs-ok-under-new-california-law/



https://abc7.com/downtown-los-angeles-fire-firefighters-hurt-explosion-injured/6192977/

Excerpts from the article specifically to this incident (highlights are mine to summarize): 

_*Adam Spiker, executive director of the cannabis industry group Southern California Coalition*, said *he didn't know what activities were taking place inside the building*. However, *if the business was using butane in cannabis extraction it would be illegal because the city has never issued a license for that type of operation*.

*Because of safety concerns, such businesses are typically restricted to industrial areas and kept away from urban centers*.

"*If they were doing volatile extraction with butane ... they couldn't be legal in the city of LA to do those types of activities*," Spiker said.

He said *the coalition was unaware of the business having any type of license* and "*something about this doesn't pass the smell test*."

Information so far "*puts up a lot of alarm bells*," Spiker said._


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## ADAguy (May 20, 2020)

Enri Code said:


> https://abc7.com/downtown-los-angeles-fire-firefighters-hurt-explosion-injured/6192977/
> 
> Another example of an unintended consequence of the rush to legalize a product.
> 
> ...


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## Enri Code (May 20, 2020)

Yes, sadly, follow the money trail... regulations are still pretty fragmented per state based on what I see. Things really started picking up in 2016 and was a mad scramble. 
NFPA 1 did add a chapter on these types of facilities in 2018 to 2019 I think so adoption or awareness of it may not be widespread yet and may still need to mature.


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## FM William Burns (May 20, 2020)

cda said:


> So what is the normal size butane container you see??
> 
> And at on facility average quantity on hand ?


Typically 25-50 lb with limits of 300 lbs per control areas x 2 max.


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## cda (May 20, 2020)

FM William Burns said:


> Typically 25-50 lb with limits of 300 lbs per control areas x 2 max.



In a code compliant setting!

I know just one Bbq propane tank can do a lot of damage. 

Thank you


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## FM William Burns (May 20, 2020)

Met some guys from LA when I spoke in Denver last October. Regulating this industry is challenging and often referred to as “building the plane while flying it” but still the most fun I’ve had in my fire service career.

All LPG operations are required to be done in a C1D1 room/booth with emergency power, interlocked detection, ventilation and lighting, non-sparking tools, bonding/grounding and fire suppression etc.


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## JPohling (May 20, 2020)

More energy in butane correct?


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## ICE (May 20, 2020)

The fire didn’t have explosions as one would expect with butane tanks.

I had a case where a guy had a tortilla factory in his backyard.  No enclosure and a 100 gallon propane tank for cooking.  The tank leaked and filled his backyard to the height of an open flame at about four feet.  The explosion blew all of the glazing out of the house, knocked one garage wall into the garage, showered burning debris on the neighborhood and killed the cook.....not right away


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## cda (May 20, 2020)

FM William Burns said:


> Met some guys from LA when I spoke in Denver last October. Regulating this industry is challenging and often referred to as “building the plane while flying it” but still the most fun I’ve had in my fire service career.
> 
> All LPG operations are required to be done in a C1D1 room/booth with emergency power, interlocked detection, ventilation and lighting, non-sparking tools, bonding/grounding and fire suppression etc.




Yep seen a few build a plane. And have seen some interesting designs. 

I am trying to learn radio booster systems now


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## cda (May 20, 2020)

ICE said:


> The fire didn’t have explosions as one would expect with butane tanks.



But If you look at the flames, appears to me to be a gaseous fire.


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## ICE (May 20, 2020)

cda said:


> But If you look at the flames, appears to me to be a gaseous fire.


I agree but butane would have been all at once.  The match head effect that I saw looked like oil or some similar chemical..


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## cda (May 20, 2020)

ICE said:


> I agree but butane would have been all at once.  The match head effect that I saw looked like oil or some similar chemical..





 It’ all a question of quantum physics, molecular attraction, and timing,

Plus fuel, heat and oxygen in the right mixture


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## cda (May 20, 2020)

ICE said:


> I agree but butane would have been all at once.  The match head effect that I saw looked like oil or some similar chemical..




Check starting at 1:18

look similar to include color


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## ADAguy (May 21, 2020)

See todays LA Times article, as I suspected, a bootleg wholesaler of products to unlicensed processors. That is why it had no HAZMat sign on the exterior. Area is known for this type of butane canister (by the case) sales.


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