# Public Observation Tower



## ClermontCodeGuy (May 27, 2016)

Our city is wanting to build a 3 story observation tower overlooking a marsh and lake area. My question to the group is: Am I the only municipal Building Official that would require this tower to be accessible to the public. Based on the 5th Edition of the Florida Building Code it seems quite clear to me that accessibility is required, however the resistance is pretty heavy from the other side.


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## cda (May 27, 2016)

So are they ready for the lawsuit on opening day??


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## JPohling (May 27, 2016)

It will be a lot less expensive to provide access now, rather than after the lawsuit.

I think you mean accessible to the disabled, it is clearly intended to be accessible to the public


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## cda (May 27, 2016)

guess they do not want to install an elevator?


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## ClermontCodeGuy (May 27, 2016)

I stand corrected, yes open to the public and accessible to all.
Elevator maybe not, I was leaning towards a ramp system from deck to deck.


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## JPohling (May 27, 2016)

I think those ramp lengths are going to be prohibitively long to go three levels up.


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## ClermontCodeGuy (May 27, 2016)

Agreed, a lot of ramps would be required. However in the past I visited a state park that had a similar structure with ramps built around the outer perimeter of the tower. It looked good and made the climb seem easier than steps.


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## steveray (May 27, 2016)

*Closest thing to an exemption I could find in a hurry....

1103.2.5 Utility buildings.* Occupancies in Group U are exempt from the requirements of this chapter other than the following:
1. In agricultural buildings, access is required to paved work areas and areas open to the general public.
2. Private garages or carports that contain required _accessible _parking


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## JPohling (May 27, 2016)

The ramps actually become the observation platforms, no need for a tower.................


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## ADAguy (May 27, 2016)

Good point but imagine if they did a corkscrew ramp? Skateboarders heaven (smiling).


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## cda (May 27, 2016)

https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/sh...wer15.jpg&sp=3345e466710801b0a87e2bbdb63d24f6


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## mark handler (May 27, 2016)

Contact the Florida building commission
Www.floridabuilding.org


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## Msradell (May 28, 2016)

steveray said:


> *Closest thing to an exemption I could find in a hurry....
> 
> 1103.2.5 Utility buildings.* Occupancies in Group U are exempt from the requirements of this chapter other than the following:
> 1. In agricultural buildings, access is required to paved work areas and areas open to the general public.
> 2. Private garages or carports that contain required _accessible _parking


If those are the closest you can find that it seemed quite obvious that the tower would need to be accessible. Which I was thinking anyway.



ClermontCodeGuy said:


> Agreed, a lot of ramps would be required. However in the past I visited a state park that had a similar structure with ramps built around the outer perimeter of the tower. It looked good and made the climb seem easier than steps.


Here in Louisville that took an old railroad bridge across the river and made it a walking bridge to go from Indiana to Kentucky. Great project but I did all kinds of shenanigans for accessibility. They built ramps on both sides because the bridge is almost 50 feet above the surrounding area. However, they built a ramp at 4.95% slope so they didn't have to put resting places along the way! It seems that 5% slope is the magic number in which you have to start putting resting places in. By being less than 5% you can just have a continuous ramp for any length you want. I have a power chair so it's not a major problem but with somebody in the manual wheelchair it could be a major obstacle!


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## Builder Bob (May 31, 2016)

IF government funds are being expended.... it has to be accessible  Title II ADA


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## MASSDRIVER (Jun 1, 2016)

With wheelchairs


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## cda (Jun 1, 2016)

MASSDRIVER said:


> With wheelchairs
> 
> View attachment 2295




Six flags over Texas


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## steveray (Jun 2, 2016)

Msradell said:


> It seems that 5% slope is the magic number in which you have to start putting resting places in. By being less than 5% you can just have a continuous ramp for any length you want. I have a power chair so it's not a major problem but with somebody in the manual wheelchair it could be a major obstacle!




Yep....1 in 20 is a sloped walking surface...not a ramp....


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## mark handler (Jun 2, 2016)

Eagle Tower Repairs Could Push $1 Million
http://www.doorcountydailynews.com/...cle_a125a7e6-2840-11e6-9e3f-0be794b5446f.html







The price tag for a repaired Eagle Tower could potentially reach $1 million depending on Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) compliance requirements. A specific plan for repairing and re-opening the Peninsula State Park landmark including fundraising initiatives will be discussed at a meeting next week. Door Property Owners Vice-President Kathie Vavra says the structure will be first assessed to see how much of it can be saved before it is dismantled

Eagle Tower has been closed to the public since last spring when it was deemed unsafe. The newly formed Eagle Tower Fund Committee will host their meeting June 9 at Old Town Hall in Fish Creek beginning at 7 p.m


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## mtlogcabin (Jun 2, 2016)

Built in 1932, ADA should only be a very small amount of any repair cost


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## Msradell (Jun 2, 2016)

steveray said:


> Yep....1 in 20 is a sloped walking surface...not a ramp....


Very true but in a case like this when it's done intentionally to avoid having to comply with the ADA it should be illegal! In this case the "walking surface" is over 1000' long! The original plan for the project was to have an elevator to go from grade level to the bridge surface but instead they made the spiral ramp.



mtlogcabin said:


> Built in 1932, ADA should only be a very small amount of any repair cost


While it certainly seems like the 20% rule should apply in this case it seems like the only alternative they are looking at for the rebuild is complete compliance. Maybe it's because they have to spend the 20% (minimum) on ADA improvements and there is nothing else to improve except making the top platform accessible?

I would understand recording 100% accessibility if they were completely new tower but just repairing existing one seems like it should come under a different set of rules.


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## JBI (Jun 3, 2016)

I'm not sure a spiral sloped walking surface would be feasible given the limited dimensions of the structure. At a 1:20 slope they will only rise 2 feet for 40 feet of length. Assuming, based on the photo, that the widest portion at the base is maybe 30' at most (being generous with that estimate), that would be a 6' change in elevation for a complete lap around the structure at the base. Allowing for depth of sloped walkway structure that leaves less than 6' of headroom. And it gets narrower as you go up.
Perhaps a series of lifts? Go up one level, transfer to a different lift and go up one level, etc.
Or an elevator from top to bottom. 
I'm just not seeing the math for a sloped walkway. But I do see the potential for an ADA lawsuit if they try 3 stories with no level areas along the way.


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## steveray (Jun 3, 2016)

Msradell said:


> Very true but in a case like this when it's done intentionally to avoid having to comply with the ADA it should be illegal! In this case the "walking surface" is over 1000' long!



Not that I claim to be an ADA expert, but I believe it would comply with ADA. just like any other public sidewalk that was 1000' long and 1:20. Not the most user friendly thing, but it is a minimum standard....


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## ADAguy (Jun 5, 2016)

Financial resources are the key to hardship, I believe they lack this key.


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