# ADA bath rooms?



## RJJ (Feb 16, 2010)

I have a space that has altered both M&L bath rooms. No walls have been mover and no plumbing pipes have been relocated. However, the bath rooms are less compliant then the original. Also work was done without permits. Electrical lights & switches changed,Ice make relocated etc. A2 occ.

Now for back ground the original restaurant was approved in 1988 by me and the state under L&I.

The baths at that time would not have complied to the full bore of ada under present code. But, grab bars and reach ranges did happen to be in line as well as approach to the sink. Thoughts on this please. I have a few photos that I will load later.


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## MarkRandall (Feb 16, 2010)

Re: ADA bath rooms?

Is the rim of the lav at the correct height?

It looks as though clear floor space under the lav may not meet requirements, but I have to give them one thumb up for their attempt at making the toilet room look good. They got close to getting clear spaces correct. Grab bars of course need to be added back in.

What brought you in to check it out? Permit for something else or just happened to be there on your own time?


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## Big Mac (Feb 16, 2010)

Re: ADA bath rooms?

Can't make it less accessible.


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## Heaven (Feb 16, 2010)

Re: ADA bath rooms?

Can't mix those materials, someone is gonna puke.


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## High Desert (Feb 16, 2010)

Re: ADA bath rooms?

What are those yellow things sticking out from behind the lav base? Almost looks like they left someone behind there with yellow gloves on and they're trying to get out.


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## vegas paul (Feb 16, 2010)

Re: ADA bath rooms?

Comment completely unrelated to any code issues...  The funny thing is that those materials cost a fair amount of money, and somebody actually spent money to make that restroom look so awful!  It couldn't have been much worse before they did the (unpermitted) work!


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## D a v e W (Feb 17, 2010)

Re: ADA bath rooms?

Get the required permits, and go from there on enforcement/corrections. Or of course do not worry about it as it is a DOJ enforcement issue. You said you had inspected it originally and it was correct. End of story, let DOJ deal with it.


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## Rick18071 (Feb 17, 2010)

Re: ADA bath rooms?

Any thing that is new only must be to code


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## BayPointArchitect (Feb 18, 2010)

Re: ADA bath rooms?



			
				Heaven said:
			
		

> Can't mix those materials, someone is gonna puke.


Unless walls and fixtures were relocated, I would not have required a building permit if someone described the work as being cosmetic.

If you don't like the materials and want to get rid of them, let me know.  They would look even better in my bathroom at home.  Although, I would hide the yellow rubber gloves.

---------------------------------

AIA, NCARB, ICC, NCOA, CSI

ICC Plans Examiner


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## peach (Feb 21, 2010)

Re: ADA bath rooms?

It doesn't appear that the bathroom is accessible at all.  How does someone in a wheelchair transfer onto the toilet?  Fixture clearances, etc...


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## Gene Boecker (Feb 22, 2010)

Re: ADA bath rooms?

There seem to be two issues:

1) There was work done without a permit.  Like Dave says, have them pull the right permits and review it from that standpoint.

- and -

2) The feds require these types of facilities to participate in on-going barrier removal.  That means that if they can add grab bars or change materials or add an elevated toilet seat, they must do so.

Since you don't enforce the fed's requirements, I noted it only to give you the added ammunition to push for a "proper" permit and design/installation.  Ask them if they'd rather hassle with you or the US Department of Justice.


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## RJJ (Feb 23, 2010)

Re: ADA bath rooms?

We have been fighting this for over a year. We have been to court and won for no permits etc. Still have no compliance. Their Attorney is trying to make a federal case out of this for civil rights violations.

During thier fix up period I had sited them for obstruction of a  horizontal exist enclosure. It took about two weeks to get it cleared. Next began the fight over permits. Electrical, Plumbing and alteration to the bath rooms. These bath rooms did not comply fully with ada if one were to look at A117, but they had been constructed under 1987 /88 regulations that were in place in PA. The alteration have left them less usable then what I had approved in 88.

Not sure how this will play out in the local courts! :roll:


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## Gene Boecker (Feb 23, 2010)

Re: ADA bath rooms?

If they're making it a civil rights issue, then they go to the "barrier removal" requirements of the ADA and I don't think they'll be happy with the result.  Anyway, THAT would take it out of your hands anyway.

Assuming that this is under the 2006 IBC, the text in 3409.3 if pretty clear in that second sentence:

_"Alterations shall not reduce or have the effect of reducing accessibility of a building, portion of a building or facility."_

If they did, they can't.


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## RJJ (Feb 25, 2010)

Re: ADA bath rooms?

Gene: I knew the concept just didn't see the words. Excellent pick up. This will be of help when I get back to court.


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