# Permernant stairway to attic.



## Span (Apr 29, 2010)

Hi all, today I've a situation, which a SFR has a permernant stairway leading to attic, and whole attic has been finished rooms with wood floor, drywall, bathroom etc.

The question I have to you all. You must have permernant stairway for 2nd floor, but is there any code stipulate or similar wording prohibit, that unhabitable attic storage room or space not allow to have permernant stairway?

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## bgingras (Apr 29, 2010)

by the sound of it, you no longer have an unhabitable attic to worry about. should have a complaint stair. Sounds like a 3 story SFR now.


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## cboboggs (Apr 30, 2010)

Why the concern about a unfinished attic? bgingras is correct, you now have a 3rd story and must have a compliant stair system.


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## JBI (Apr 30, 2010)

This should get interesting... but yes, you will need a code compliant stairway. And maybe sprinklers? Is this three stories above a basement?


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## rktect 1 (Apr 30, 2010)

You think the stairs is your issue?  Ok.

They need to be code compliant at this point.


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## fatboy (Apr 30, 2010)

I agree with the folks above, habitable space=compliant stairs.


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## JMORRISON (Apr 30, 2010)

Washington State Amendment

R311.1 General. Stairways, ramps, exterior exit balconies, hallways and doors shall comply with this section.

EXCEPTION: Stairs or ladders within an individual dwelling unit used for access to areas of 200 square feet (18.6 m2) or less, and not containing the primary bathroom or kitchen.


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## Yankee (Apr 30, 2010)

John Drobysh said:
			
		

> This should get interesting... but yes, you will need a code compliant stairway. And maybe sprinklers? Is this three stories above a basement?


I think 2009 removes what is now called a "habitable attic" from the story above grade count.


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## FredK (Apr 30, 2010)

I agree it need to comply.


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## Span (Apr 30, 2010)

The situation that I have is a one story SFR with three gable roof, all roof measure from bottom of RB to finish floor have clearance height 7'4", and

slope down to exterior wall with three different height from drywall ceiling to floor 3'5", 4'9" and 5'3".

The house's attic has been converted to recreation rooms with HVAC, restroom and home thearter. I want it converted back to unhabitable attic, but

home owner don't want to remove stairway by chanlenging "show me the code stipulate attic not allow to have a permernabt stairway".

So, My concern is by allowing home owner to keep attic stairway in place will be interpret, that City recognize it as legally habitable space. Is there any code leverage I can applying to this case and legally tell home owner the stairway needs to go.

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## fatboy (Apr 30, 2010)

You can have a compliant stairway to an non-habitable attic, or a habitable attic. You can't "force" him to remove a compliant stairway. If the stair were non-compliant going to a non-habitable attic, that's another discussion. You could force the installation of a compliant stair to a habitable attic. But, a compliant stair can remain.

As far as you forcing the returning it to non-habitable status, that's a battle you'll have to decide if you want to take on. Even if you succeed, there's nothing to prevent the owner then to pull a permit and do it the right way. So what do you really gain?

If it were me, I'd require a permit be pulled for the scope of work done, I'd double permit fee it, then I would start doing inspections. If wallboard needs to be removed to see something you're worried about, so be it. But I would be looking at just getting the space into compliance, and then move on.

JMHO


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## mtlogcabin (Apr 30, 2010)

> I want it converted back to unhabitable attic,


Wrong attitude, What you want is not relevant, is it code compliant? If not can it be made code compliant.

Does the supporting floor meet the required floor loads, can you meet minimum ceiling height requirements.

What are the code sections that this space violates?

My advice is to identify and document all non-code compliant items. It sounds like you might be in for a long battle if you are taking the approach of "tear it out" versuses how can we make this code compliant and safe.


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## Span (Apr 30, 2010)

Thanks all! I'll take your advice, and let structure plan checker to find whatever applicable requirements to this house and call it a day.


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## texas transplant (Apr 30, 2010)

What are the violations, besides work without a permit?  Just because  the ceiling gets lower than 7'-0" in some places, doesn't mean that the ceiling height couldn't be legal in some cases.  Rooms with sloped ceilings have an exception in the 06 IRC, section R305.  A habitable room only needs 70 sq. ft. of area and the 7'-0" ceiling height only has to cover 1/2 of that area, as long as over the required area the ceiling is no lower than 5'-0".


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## rktect 1 (Apr 30, 2010)

Well, that is a horse of a whole nuther color.

Good luck.


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## GHRoberts (Apr 30, 2010)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Wrong attitude, What you want is not relevant, is it code compliant?


There are no non-habitable space code requirements. That is, any habitable space can be classified as non-habitable by the owner.


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## brudgers (May 3, 2010)

What we want is relevant.   Permanent stairs to an attic can cause this:

http://bestuff.com/images/images_of_stuff/210x600/accidentally-seeing-a-very-fat-man-going-upstairs-in-a-thong-67656.jpg


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## mtlogcabin (May 3, 2010)

> That is, any habitable space can be classified as non-habitable by the owner.


Think of the assumptions that statement can lead to.

Non-egress windows because the owner says the bedroom is non-habitable

Remember this space has been



> converted to recreation rooms with HVAC, restroom and home thearter.


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## RJJ (May 4, 2010)

Attic Stairs! One of my favorite issues! Must comply!


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## GHRoberts (May 4, 2010)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Think of the assumptions that statement can lead to.Non-egress windows because the owner says the bedroom is non-habitable
> 
> Remember this space has been ...


Unfortunately the building codes allow the owner/builder/designer to make this type of decision.

If the AHJ wants to do the design work and pay for the cost of the building, I am happy with living in the resulting project.


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## Yankee (May 5, 2010)

The new habital attic in 2009 will cover some of these concerns, if adopted. Otherwise, my recourse has been to keep REALLY GOOD records of what each space is approved as, and jump all over it if I find a space being used in any other manner than approved. After a couple of homes are required to swap out their window for a compliant egress window, most everone hears the message and takes care of it up front. Same for floor framing/loads.


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