# Ship Ladder for exterior 2nd story attached deck.



## MichaelM (May 14, 2019)

I would like to gather your opinions on Ship Ladder (California Residential Code 2016 chapter R311.7.12). The means of egress from deck to egress door are provided through the residence and stairway complying with CRC2016 R311.7. 
In your opinion, is ship ladder allowed to be installed for exterior 2nd story attached deck?
Thank you.

*R311.7.12 Ships ladders*
Ships ladders shall not be used as an element of a means of egress. Ships ladders shall be permitted provided that a required means of egress stairway or ramp serves the same space at each adjoining level or where a means of egress is not required. The clear width at and below the handrails shall be not less than 20 inches.

*R311.1 Means of egress*
Dwellings shall be provided with a means of egress in accordance with this section. The means of egress shall provide a continuous and unobstructed path of vertical and horizontal egress travel from all portions of the dwelling to the required egress door without requiring travel through a garage. The required egress door shall open directly into a public way or to a yard or court that opens to a public way.


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## cda (May 14, 2019)

Seems like Approved

Not part of required means of egress


Call it decoration


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## Sleepy (May 14, 2019)

Code-wise it seems ok if there is an actual means of egress from the deck through the house. 

But I would really think hard about using one for a deck with kids, guests, drunk folks, potentially using it.  It seems to me a bit different than a ships ladder accessing an attic or storage area liability-wise.


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## MichaelM (May 14, 2019)

Thank you for your answers, same thoughts here. Liability may be an issue for owner, maybe home owner's insurance will not like it, but if code allows it  - let him have it.


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## Pcinspector1 (May 14, 2019)

MichaelM said:


> R311.7.12 Ships ladders



Must be a California thing, the 2012 IRC does not have a R311.7.12 Ship Ladders so I can't allow it here, but I'm not on the CBC.

IPO, not a good idea unless your in the Lawyer biz. The IRC try's to protect a child by decreasing the distance between spindles from 6-inches to 4-3/8-inches on guardrails. Hope you don't discriminate against granny, shes got a rhubarb pie for the party on the second deck, I'm sure she can hang on to that ship ladder rail and carry that pie!

Does CBC allow a rope ladder with knots?

I could possible see this if used as a fire escape only, but that's got me worried too.


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## Rick18071 (May 14, 2019)

The 2015 IRC has ship ladders and says the same thing as the CA code.


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## JPohling (May 14, 2019)

If the exiting is code compliant through other means then the ships ladder is perfectly fine.  It could be a slide.


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## Pcinspector1 (May 14, 2019)

What's the 2018 code have? Same thing?


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## mtlogcabin (May 14, 2019)

Add a slide and the ships ladder becomes the ladder for the slide


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## steveray (May 15, 2019)

Opening in a required guard >4"....And the graspable handrail does not make it to the last riser....


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## ADAguy (May 15, 2019)

Interesting points made by all.


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## MichaelM (May 15, 2019)

steveray said:


> Opening in a required guard >4"....And the graspable handrail does not make it to the last riser....



Steve, 
How did you come to conclusion that openings between guards are >4"?


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## my250r11 (May 15, 2019)

His laser eye assumed they appear to be 6".


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## JPohling (May 15, 2019)

It is pretty clear that the space between the bottom of the guard and the stair steps is over 4".  spindles are probably ok


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## Pcinspector1 (May 15, 2019)

MichaelM said:


> Steve,
> How did you come to conclusion that openings between guards are >4"?



I think he hired Muller to investigate it. Waite until he gets his bill.


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## MichaelM (May 15, 2019)

*R312.1.3 Opening limitations*
Required guards shall not have openings from the walking surface to the required guard height that allow passage of a sphere 4 inches (102 mm) in diameter.

*Exceptions:*

The triangular openings at the open side of stair, formed by the riser, tread and bottom rail of a guard, shall not allow passage of a sphere 6 inches (153 mm) in diameter.
Guards on the open side of stairs shall not have openings that allow passage of a sphere 43/8 inches (111 mm) in diameter.


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## Glenn (May 22, 2019)

The code gives you all you need to allow this peacefully.  This is simply a balance of safety and freedom, and that is the root, human element of the IRC.  You have the stairway for safety.  You have ships ladder for freedom.  Overzealous application of the code simply results in you never getting invited back.  Alienate people on the little stuff and you loose their trust for the big stuff.  These are of course just my opinions.  They'll put the ships ladder in after the inspector leaves.


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