# outlets on decks/porches



## Yankee (Jul 26, 2010)

Where did I read or see a discussion for the requirement of multiple outlets on decks and porches (more than the one for > 20s.f. . . . I seem to recall that it addressed really large decks and porches in some manner, but I cannot find it . . .


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## north star (Jul 26, 2010)

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*Commercial or Residential ?*



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## 480sparky (Jul 26, 2010)

I'd say 210.52(E)(3)


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## raider1 (Jul 26, 2010)

480sparky said:
			
		

> I'd say 210.52(E)(3)


Yep, this section is new to the 2008 NEC, it is also located in the 2009 IRC in section E3901.7.

Chris


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## Yankee (Jul 26, 2010)

Can someone give me a quick rundown cause the suspense is killing me and I don't have my books


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## 480sparky (Jul 26, 2010)

210.52(E)(3) Balconies, Decks, and Porches. Balconies, decks, and porches that are accessible from inside the dwelling unit shall have at least one receptacle outlet installed within the perimeter of the balcony, deck, or porch. The receptacle shall not be located more than 2.0 m (6½ ft) above the balcony, deck, or porch surface.

Exception to (3): Balconies, decks, or porches with a usable area of less than 1.86 m² (20 ft²) are not required to have a receptacle installed.

This applies to dwelling units only.


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## Daddy-0- (Jul 26, 2010)

Also if a porch addition contains the existing required exterior outlet they must install a new outlet outside of the porch that is accessible to service equipment etc.


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## 480sparky (Jul 26, 2010)

The porch recep serve that function...... if it's within 25' of the equipment.


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## Yankee (Jul 27, 2010)

Thanks for your replys, I am aware of the sections cited.

For some reason I thought there was language that would require more than one outlet on decks/porches that are of a substantial size (as in, they are overly long or they wrap around two or more sides of the building, change levels, etc).


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## peach (Jul 28, 2010)

Didn't it used to only require one on the ground floor?  Or am I hallucinating again?


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## Daddy-0- (Jul 28, 2010)

480,

If the porch has a door that locks we make them add another outside because the one on the porch may not always be accessible. Is that crazy?


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## peach (Jul 28, 2010)

Daddy.. what do you mean by add another?  If one is required outside, it needs to be a GFCI..  because, well, the code requires exterior receptacles to be that.. and it's at least a damp location.

A living room (for example), probably isn't on a GFCI circuit, so the electric grill, bug zapper and margartia mixer on the deck in the rain would probably not all work .. for very long.. unless you get excercise walking to the breaker panel.


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## 480sparky (Jul 28, 2010)

Daddy-0- said:
			
		

> 480,If the porch has a door that locks we make them add another outside because the one on the porch may not always be accessible. Is that crazy?


Not crazy at all.  But I don't see too many doors on balconies and decks.


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## Mule (Jul 29, 2010)

480sparky said:
			
		

> Not crazy at all.  But I don't see too many doors on balconies and decks.


I bet their heating and cooling bills are horrendous without a door!


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## 480sparky (Jul 29, 2010)

Mule said:
			
		

> I bet their heating and cooling bills are horrendous without a door!


I'll bet there's a door on the house itself, though.


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## peach (Jul 29, 2010)

details.. *sheesh*


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## 480sparky (Jul 29, 2010)

peach said:
			
		

> details.. *sheesh*


*"Details, Bob............ details!"*

..................George Malley (John Travolta) to Dr. Bob Niedorf (Brent Spiner), _Phenomenon_, 1996


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## pwood (Jul 30, 2010)

peach said:
			
		

> Didn't it used to only require one on the ground floor? Or am I hallucinating again?


it used to be only one required and in the 1993 nec it started to require one receptacle in the front and one in the back of the house. i can't help you with the hallucinations other than to say been there,done that! :mrgreen:


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## Plans Approver (Jul 30, 2010)

Besides the receptacle for the deck req'd by 210.52(E)(3) for decks/porches/balconies > 20 sf. You need to look at 210.52(E)(1) which requires the rear (as well as the front) receptacle to be "*accessible while** standing at grade level*". If the receptacle is located near enough to an edge, it might be ok. Otherwise, an additional receptacle may be required depending on location of AC equipment.  Maybe that is causing your hallucinations?


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## peach (Jul 31, 2010)

that might be it Plans... so do we need to require a receptacle on a 10th floor balcony?


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## Yankee (Jul 31, 2010)

Yes, over 20sf, or there isn't anywhere to plug in the lava lamp


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## peach (Jul 31, 2010)

so a semi "Juliet" balcony on the 10th floor, 2' wide by 10' long needs one..  wow..

No room for a lava lamp.. just enough room to squeeze out there to smoke..

What's the tag line... common sense isn't so common.


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## Plans Approver (Jul 31, 2010)

peach said:
			
		

> that might be it Plans... so do we need to require a receptacle on a 10th floor balcony?


 Dang . . Details!

210.52(E)(1) applies to 1 and 2 family dwellings only. So if the 10th floor balcony is part of a 1 or 2 family dwelling and greater than 20 sf, you will 1 receptacle at the balcony and 1 at grade. Not to leave any details out, I will presume that the 10th floor balcony is greater than 6 1/2 feet above grade.  But then it could be a sloping site and the 10th floor is at grade...hmm. I'll leave those details to all a y'all.


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## peach (Jul 31, 2010)

I'm not entirely sure what the NEC provisions are in 05 and 08 for high rise (residential) construction... because I have an electrical inspector to monitor this stuff for me.  Having said that, I've seen some on high balconies in the past months .. maybe the lava lamp lobby ...


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## Daddy-0- (Jul 31, 2010)

480 and Peaches...

I was only talking about a screen porch. Sorry if I was unclear. If a screen porch obviously with a door isolated the required exterior outlet we make them add another exterior outlet outside of the porch that is accessible from grade for servicing equipment etc. Of course this outlet is GFCI protected and wet location where appropriate. If it is a deck where the service man can still get to the existing outlet then it already complies.


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## peach (Jul 31, 2010)

one in front; one in back... one of them needs to be 25' and on the same level of equipment.  I thought the Code said within sight, but can't find it.


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## Pcinspector1 (Aug 11, 2010)

Someone please clarify!

Single & two-Family for each dwelling,

2005NEC one outlet recptacle at front and back at grade, correct?

2009NEC change requires one at a balcony or deck if over 20S.F. and the two required at grade, correct?


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## raider1 (Aug 11, 2010)

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> Someone please clarify!Single & two-Family for each dwelling,
> 
> 2005NEC one outlet recptacle at front and back at grade, correct?


Correct, 210.52(E)



> 2009NEC change requires one at a balcony or deck if over 20S.F. and the two required at grade, correct?


Correct, the 2008 NEC added section 210.52(E)(3) which in addition to the 2 grade level receptacles requires a receptacle on an balcony, deck or porch that is 20' square feet or more in area regardless of proximity to grade.

Chris


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## north star (Aug 11, 2010)

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peach,



The 25 ft. requirement of installing the receptacle is from Art. 210.63.

The "within sight" requirement is referenced from Art. 100 - Definitions.

Also, see Art. 440.14 [ disconnecting means on air conditioning

equipt. ].   The [ max. ] distance of "within sight" is 50 ft.



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