# GFCI protection at a bar where there is no sink?



## Pcinspector1 (Jun 28, 2019)

Would the code require GFCI protection on or at a commercial business with a bar where there is no sink? There will be blenders in use. Three bay sink is beyond 6-ft of bar.

I think it's part of the kitchen area and would require the GFCI protection.


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## linnrg (Jun 28, 2019)

if the area is the commercial kitchen then yes.  Just did one of this type where all of the sinks were in another adjacent room but the bar areas/countertops were in the area where all of the cooking occurred.


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## Pcinspector1 (Jun 28, 2019)

That's kinda what's going on here.. I was also concerned with wet hands from the use of melted ice in the process of making drinks. Existing tenant space, business owners doing the remodel on the cheap....


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## linnrg (Jun 28, 2019)

Pcinspector1 said:


> That's kinda what's going on here.. I was also concerned with wet hands from the use of melted ice in the process of making drinks. Existing tenant space, business owners doing the remodel on the cheap....



That last sentence says it all.  The one I just did had a lady owner that was upset with me and cried because of the costs associated with the TI.


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## jar546 (Jun 28, 2019)

linnrg said:


> if the area is the commercial kitchen then yes.  Just did one of this type where all of the sinks were in another adjacent room but the bar areas/countertops were in the area where all of the cooking occurred.



There we go.  The preparation of food.  GFCI


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## Glenn (Jun 29, 2019)

References:
2017 NEC
210.8:  GFCI protection required and readily accessible
(6) "kitchens - where receptacles are installed to serve the countertop"

100: definitions: kitchen
An area with a sink and permanent provisions for food preparation and cooking.


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## mark handler (Jun 29, 2019)

IMO Yes to GFCI protection. *GFCIs*  prevent bodily harm from electrical faults that could cause electricity to flow through you to ground. You no not need plumbing for that, just like in the garage. The fault is in the appliance, i.e. blender. (or drill/saw motor in garage)
Will also need Health Department Inspection.....


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## Rick18071 (Jul 1, 2019)

Glenn said:


> References:
> 2017 NEC
> 210.8:  GFCI protection required and readily accessible
> (6) "kitchens - where receptacles are installed to serve the countertop"
> ...



So the definition requires a kitchen to have a (1) sink, (2) food preparations and (3) cooking.
If the area/room only has a sink or just used for food preparations or only has cooking or just two of these things it's not a kitchen?
In other words does it need all three to be a kitchen?


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## ADAguy (Jul 1, 2019)

Rick18071 said:


> So the definition requires a kitchen to have a (1) sink, (2) food preparations and (3) cooking.
> If the area/room only has a sink or just used for food preparations or only has cooking or just two of these things it's not a kitchen?
> In other words does it need all three to be a kitchen?


My question too, though it would be best practice to do so. Consider if using a blender or mixer on the counter without a sink, an appliance (with a short) could fall into the bowl.


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## Pcinspector1 (Jul 1, 2019)

I agree with Glenn's NEC reference 210.8 (6) food prep. area. 

A sink is perpendicular to the end of the bar counter on another with a receptacle beyond 6-ft but the counter is within 6-ft, but still a prep area.


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## HForester (Jul 1, 2019)

Fighting the extra cost of one GFCI receptacle is complete stupidity.  Where these "wet bar" counter tops are not within "the kitchen", don't make the mistake of calling it a kitchen because  a "kitchen" requires two 20 amp counter top receptacle circuits. A wert bar does not make a kitchen (unless it meets all three of the items in the kitchen definition).  There the next question usually is, what if there microwave?  Is that a cooking appliance? Does the microwave need a separate circuit?


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## jar546 (Jul 1, 2019)

Rick18071 said:


> So the definition requires a kitchen to have a (1) sink, (2) food preparations and (3) cooking.
> If the area/room only has a sink or just used for food preparations or only has cooking or just two of these things it's not a kitchen?
> In other words does it need all three to be a kitchen?



Your reference to 210.8 is for residential and not commercial.  That would be from 210.8(B) and not the verbiage you used from 210.8(A)


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## Pcinspector1 (Jul 1, 2019)

HF, that's why I have posted the Q, drinks and food prep, but not a full blown kitchen. Health Dept. made them change out the ceiling tiles to scrub type CT's in the same area above the counter. I think when handling ice and having wet hands it should be considered at least a wet area requiring GFCI protection.

You know they tell you just drinks then they add the other aspects to the business. I know that's the "Crystal Ball Theory" and I try to stay away from that but that's burned me a couple times. The business goes out of business and here comes the next restaurant king modifying the bar and selling sushi!


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## ADAguy (Jul 1, 2019)

Ever served "dry" Margaritas?


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## HForester (Jul 2, 2019)

I knew there was a backstory to the question....


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## Pcinspector1 (Jul 2, 2019)

Counter protected by GFCI receptacle! 

Veni, vidi, vici


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## Glenn (Jul 2, 2019)

Glenn said:


> References:
> 2017 NEC
> 210.8:  GFCI protection required and readily accessible
> (6) "kitchens - where receptacles are installed to serve the countertop"
> ...



I posted the sections just for reference for anyone visiting this thread, and then Jar546 pointed out I did a poor job of that.  Good teamwork.  Here is the correct reference for a commercial kitchen.

2017 NEC
210.8(B)(2) "kitchens"

The reference to "serving countertops" is only for dwellings.


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## ADAguy (Jul 2, 2019)

back bar mixing counter vs a kitchen?


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