# Pocket Door at top of Stairway



## bozobozo (Jan 21, 2012)

Greetings,I'm new to this website so pls bear with any breach of protocol.I'm in the final stages of building preparing the drawings for a new home, in Bethel Township, Lebanon Count PA.  Once I'm done they will be reviewed and sealed by a licensed structural engineer. His review does not cover code issues.Once he approves the plans I can apply for a building permit.  This is the first time the plans will be reviewed for code issues.  I have tried numerous times to ask the township inspectors questions in order to ensuremy plans will be as clean as possible come time to apply for the permit.  However they tell me each time, they cannot answer any questions with seeing the plans as a whole.  To some degree I can understand that but in some cases,the topic is pretty black and white, I just can't find it in the code.This is one example.  I would like to use a 36" pocket door at the top of the stairway to the basement.  This will eliminate a swinging door issue.  There will be a fire rated door off the bottom landing of the stairway.  The way I read the code as long as the door at the top of the stairs does not open into the stairway, I don't need a landing.  Am I correct?   I have attached a segment of my drawing to illustrate the question.  The quality is not great due to the attachment size limitation.Thanks - I just found this site and I'll have plenty of other questions. Pls bear with me.jeo
	

		
			
		

		
	

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## cda (Jan 21, 2012)

welcome, glad you are interested in  doing it right.

What code is this being build under????

I know some departments do not have enough personal, but should be able to answer a short specific question.

Hate to say but more than likely you will get a few comments, and as long as you are not in a hury sometimes it is a good idea to submit the plans,

and I am not saying submit junk plans so an ahj can do the design


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## cda (Jan 21, 2012)

keep checking and you will get an answer

not a building person but this may be the answer::

SECTION R311 MEANS OF EGRESS

R311.1 General.

Stairways, ramps, exterior exit balconies, hallways and doors shall comply with this section

R311.4.3 Landings at doors.

There shall be a floor or landing on each side of each exterior door.

Exception: Where a stairway of two or fewer risers is located on the exterior side of a door, other than the required exit door, a landing is not required for the exterior side of the door.

The floor or landing at the exit door required by Section R311.4.1 shall not be more than 1.5 inches (38 mm) lower than the top of the threshold. The floor or landing at exterior doors other than the exit door required by Section R311.4.1 shall not be required to comply with this requirement but shall have a rise no greater than that permitted in Section R311.5.3.

Exception: The landing at an exterior doorway shall not be more than 7¾ inches (196 mm) below the top of the threshold, provided the door, other than an exterior storm or screen door does not swing over the landing.

The width of each landing shall not be less than the door served. Every landing shall have a minimum dimension of 36 inches (914 mm) measured in the direction of travel.


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## pyrguy (Jan 21, 2012)

Check this section:

*R311.5.4 Landings for stairways.  *

There shall be a floor or landing at the top and bottom of  each stairway. A flight of stairs shall not have a vertical rise larger  than 12 feet (3658 mm) between floor levels or landings. The width of  each landing shall not be less than the width of the stairway served.  Every landing shall have a minimum dimension of 36 inches (914 mm)  measured in the direction of travel.

*Exception: *A floor or landing is not required at the top  of an interior flight of stairs, including stairs in an enclosed garage,  provided that a door does not swing over the stairs.

No door swing over the stairs, no landing required.


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## cda (Jan 21, 2012)

Missed by one section

Thanks pyr


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## imhotep (Jan 21, 2012)

pyrguy said:
			
		

> Check this section:*R311.5.4 Landings for stairways.  *
> 
> There shall be a floor or landing at the top and bottom of  each stairway. A flight of stairs shall not have a vertical rise larger  than 12 feet (3658 mm) between floor levels or landings. The width of  each landing shall not be less than the width of the stairway served.  Every landing shall have a minimum dimension of 36 inches (914 mm)  measured in the direction of travel.
> 
> ...


Agreed, no landing required provided that the door does not swing over the stairs.


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## imhotep (Jan 21, 2012)

cda said:
			
		

> welcome, glad you are interested in  doing it right.What code is this being build under????
> 
> I know some departments do not have enough personal, but should be able to answer a short specific question.
> 
> ...


Looks like the 2009 IRC is being used.


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## Yankee (Jan 21, 2012)

If the stair and door are the means of egress FROM the basement, a sliding door is not permitted.


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## imhotep (Jan 21, 2012)

Yankee said:
			
		

> If the stair and door are the means of egress FROM the basement, a sliding door is not permitted.


Code citation?


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## Yankee (Jan 21, 2012)

Retracted, i was thinking of this section. *R311.2 Egress door. *


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## fatboy (Jan 22, 2012)

Pocket door would be compliant.

Welcome to the forum.


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## jar546 (Jan 22, 2012)

Will the basement be part of the thermal envelope?  Are there pocket doors that will comply with the energy code?


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## fatboy (Jan 22, 2012)

Good points, around here basements are always part of the thermal envelope, but I forget how all parts of the country do not view basements they way we do.


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## peach (Jan 22, 2012)

one can use a pocket door almost everywhere in a house; as long as the door doesn't swing over the basement stairs, no landing required.


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## Pcinspector1 (Jan 22, 2012)

Why do you need a door anyway,  can't it be open to the basement? Spiral stairs? Split entry? Railing looking over a stairway from a living room?

Agree door can't swing over the stairs!

pc1


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## jar546 (Jan 22, 2012)

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> Why do you need a door anyway,  can't it be open to the basement? Spiral stairs? Split entry? Railing looking over a stairway from a living room?Agree door can't swing over the stairs!
> 
> pc1


Because it may violate the energy code if the basement is not part of the thermal envelope


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## bozobozo (Jan 23, 2012)

Not sure I understand the question - The basement will be a conditioned space.


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## jar546 (Jan 23, 2012)

Will the basement walls be insulated?


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## jar546 (Jan 23, 2012)

Let me help you a bit more.

If you don't insulate your walls to the minimum for your area, you cannot condition your basement.  So if your walls are not insulated but the ceiling of your basement is, then the basement is not part of the thermal envelope.  You have a choice.  If you have Superior Walls that are precast with DOW foam insulation, then it more than likely can be considered part of the thermal envelope.  If your walls are concrete block or poured concrete then it is not part of the thermal envelope.


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## Francis Vineyard (Jan 23, 2012)

Could you install a patio sliding door inside the wall?

They do make an inset flat track barn door with weather-strip. I've seen these in a house that an architect designed for himself, they are heavy, cumbersome and take up alot of space along the wall.

Francis


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## jar546 (Jan 23, 2012)

It is actually less expensive to bring the basement into the thermal envelope, eliminating the requirement for the ceiling to be insulated and the basement stairwell from the interior.  It also allows a reduction in the R-Value of the duct work which also saves money.

You don't have to frame the basement walls as there are several products that meet the criteria for insulation, including some rigid foam board that is approved for use on basement walls.


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## bozobozo (Jan 23, 2012)

jar546 said:
			
		

> Will the basement walls be insulated?


Yes, the basement walls and floor will be insulated.


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## righter101 (Jan 23, 2012)

I agree with pyrguy, using the cited code sections.


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## jar546 (Jan 23, 2012)

Why are you insulating the walls and ceiling of the basement?  It can be one or the other.  Will this be finished space?


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