# Protruding Objects



## Rick18071 (Oct 4, 2013)

2003 A117.1 307.  Objects with leading edges more than 27" and not more than 80" above the floor shall protrude 4" max horizontally into circulation path.

We go by 2009 A117.1 now in PA but I don't have it with me now. I don't think this part has not changed.

I get confused with this.

Circulation Path. An exterior or interior way of passage provided for pedestrian travel, including but not limited to, walks, hallways, courtyards, elevators, platform lifts, ramps, stairways, and landings.

1. Can a bank lobby be part of the circulation path. The whole room or only part of it? You need to go through the lobby to get to offices, rest rooms, teller stations, etc.

2. There is a counter in the middle of the lobby to write out deposit slips. the counter only protrudes only 4" on the sides. You need to walk pass the sides to get to the teller stations and there is pleanty of room around the counters. But the counter protrudes 12" out the front and rear. Is this a violation?

3. There are two double teller stations. The tellers need to go by these to get to the work area behind them. The counters on the teller stations protrude over 4" out the sides. Is this a violation?

4. The work area behind the teller stations is less than 200 sq. ft. So they don't need an accessible route to get to this work area.

But is it still a cirulation path?

5. 2012 IBC chapter 11 (tells you what needs to be accessible) never mentions "circulation paths". But it does tell you where you need "accessible routes". Chapter 4 in the 2003 A117.1 tells you how to make an accessble route. "402.2 Components. Accessible routes consist of one or more of the following components: Walking surfaces with a slope not steeper than 1:20, doors and dorways, ramps, crub ramps, elevators, and platform lifts". Nothing here about "circulation paths". Nothing about protruding objects or circulation paths in this section or chapter 4. If this is so should I even be concerned about protruding objects?


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## mark handler (Oct 4, 2013)

1. Can a bank lobby be part of the circulation path. The whole room or only part of it? You need to go through the lobby to get to offices, rest rooms, teller stations, etc.

* Yes, An Entire room or a part of the room can be a POT*

 2. There is a counter in the middle of the lobby to write out deposit slips. the counter only protrudes only 4" on the sides. You need to walk pass the sides to get to the teller stations and there is pleanty of room around the counters. But the counter protrudes 12" out the front and rear. Is this a violation?

* Yes, If the protrusion is in the POT, remember the protrusion is for the blind, they my not be able to see your POT*

 3. There are two double teller stations. The tellers need to go by these to get to the work area behind them. The counters on the teller stations protrude over 4" out the sides. Is this a violation?

* Is the protrusion in the POT for the public? If yes, it is a violation, if No, then No. Then the protrusion is in a "workspace" and "reasonable accommodations" will need to be made for the "sight impaired" bank teller. If this is the case let me know where the "sight impaired" bank teller works so I can open an account*

 4. The work area behind the teller stations is less than 200 sq. ft. So they don't need an accessible route to get to this work area.

 But is it still a cirulation path?

*"reasonable accommodations" will need to be made for the "sight impaired" bank teller.*

 5. 2012 IBC chapter 11 (tells you what needs to be accessible) never mentions "circulation paths". But it does tell you where you need "accessible routes". Chapter 4 in the 2003 A117.1 tells you how to make an accessble route. "402.2 Components. Accessible routes consist of one or more of the following components: Walking surfaces with a slope not steeper than 1:20, doors and dorways, ramps, crub ramps, elevators, and platform lifts". Nothing here about "circulation paths". Nothing about protruding objects or circulation paths in this section or chapter 4. If this is so should I even be concerned about protruding objects?

*"reasonable accommodations" will need to be made for the "sight impaired" bank teller. But only for" sight impaired" if there are none then there is no issue. *


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## Rick18071 (Oct 5, 2013)

Mark, what is a POT? Please give me code references on your comments.


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## jar546 (Oct 5, 2013)

Path Of Travel


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## Rick18071 (Oct 5, 2013)

I can only use terms in the ICC code books.

I do need to enforce means of egress:

1003.1 Applicability. The general requirements specified in Sections 1003 through 1013 shall apply to all three elements of the means of egress system, in addition to those specific requirements for the exit access, the exit and the exit discharge detailed elsewhere in this chapter.

MEANS OF EGRESS. A continuous and unobstructed path of vertical and horizontal egress travel from any occupied portion of a building or structure to a public way. A means of egress consists of three separate and distinct parts: the exit access, the exit and the exit discharge.

1003.3 Protruding objects. Protruding objects shall comply with the requirements of Sections 1003.3.1 through 1003.3.4.

1003.3.3 Horizontal projections. Structural elements, fixtures or furnishings shall not project horizontally from either side more than 4 inches (102 mm) over any walking surface between the heights of 27 inches (686 mm) and 80 inches (2032 mm) above the walking surface.

Exception: Handrails are permitted to protrude 41/2 inches (114 mm) from the wall.

But notice here they are only talking about projections into the means of egress (see definition). Not a cirulation path.

Nothing in section 1007 (accessible means of egress) about cirulation paths.

Nothing in Chapter 11 (Accessiblity) about cirulation paths.

Chapter 11 send you to A117.1 chapter 4 for accessible routes.

Chapter 2 is Building Blocks. This is the only place where there is a section about protuding objects in cirulation paths.

Sections in chapter 3 reference sections in chapter 3, for instance:

403.1 Changes of level. Changes of level shall comply with section 303

407.2.1.3 Elevator landing space complying with section 305 shall be provided at call controls.

There is no reference in chapter 4 to section 307(protruding objects on circulation paths).

Therefore there is no reason for me to enforce section 307.

I only have to enforce IBC 1003.3 (protuding objects into a means of egress)

Right or wrong?


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## mark handler (Oct 6, 2013)

Nothing in Chapter 11 (Accessiblity) about cirulation paths.* NOT True*

Try reading the code, everyone is looking for the easy way.

We need to use our brain.

*IBC 2012 SECTION 1102 *

*ACCESSIBLE ROUTE. A continuous, unobstructed path that complies with this chapter*

*CIRCULATION PATH. An exterior or interior way of passage from one place to another for  pedestrians.*

*COMMON USE. Interior or exterior circulation paths, rooms, spaces or elements that  nare not for public use and are made available for the shared use of two or more people. *

*1104.3.1 Employee work areas. *

*Common use circulation paths within employee work areas shall be accessible routes. *

*Exceptions:*

*1. Common use circulation paths, located within employee work areas that are less than 1,000 square feet (93 m2) in size and defined by permanently installed partitions, counters, casework or furnishings, shall not be required to be accessible routes.*

*2. Common use circulation paths, located within employee work areas, that are an integral component of equipment, shall not be required to be accessible routes.*

*3. Common use circulation paths, located within exterior employee work areas that are fully exposed to the weather, shall not be required to be accessible routes.*

*1104.5 Location. *

*Accessible routes shall coincide with or be located in the same area as a general circulation path. Where the circulation path is interior, the accessible route shall also be interior. Where only one accessible route is provided, the accessible route shall not pass through kitchens, storage rooms, restrooms, closets or similar spaces. *



1. Can a bank lobby be part of the circulation path. The whole room or only part of it? You need to go through the lobby to get to offices, rest rooms, teller stations, etc.

Yes, An Entire room or a part of the room can be a *circulation path/Accessible route*

*2. There is a counter in the middle of the lobby to write out deposit slips. the counter only protrudes only 4" on the sides. You need to walk pass the sides to get to the teller stations and there is pleanty of room around the counters. But the counter protrudes 12" out the front and rear. Is this a violation?*

*Yes, If the protrusion is in the **circulation path/Accessible route, **remember the protrusion is for the blind, they my not be able to see your **circulation path/Accessible route*

*3. There are two double teller stations. The tellers need to go by these to get to the work area behind them. The counters on the teller stations protrude over 4" out the sides. Is this a violation?*

*Is the protrusion in the circulation path/Accessible route for the public? If yes, it is a violation, if No, then No. Then the protrusion is in a "workspace" and "reasonable accommodations" will need to be made for the "sight impaired" bank teller. If this is the case let me know where the "sight impaired" bank teller works so I can open an account Workspaces and** circulation path/Accessible routes** in employee areas less than 1,000 sf do not need accessible circulation path/Accessible routes*

*4. The work area behind the teller stations is less than 200 sq. ft. So they don't need an accessible route to get to this work area.*

*But is it still a cirulation path?*

*"reasonable accommodations" will need to be made for the "sight impaired" bank teller.**ADA and EEOC *

*5. 2012 IBC chapter 11 (tells you what needs to be accessible) never mentions "circulation paths". But it does tell you where you need "accessible routes". Chapter 4 in the 2003 A117.1 tells you how to make an accessble route. "402.2 Components. Accessible routes consist of one or more of the following components: Walking surfaces with a slope not steeper than 1:20, doors and dorways, ramps, crub ramps, elevators, and platform lifts". Nothing here about "circulation paths". Nothing about protruding objects or circulation paths in this section or chapter 4. If this is so should I even be concerned about protruding objects? *

*"reasonable accommodations" will need to be made for the "sight impaired" bank teller. But only for" sight impaired" if there are none then there is no issue.**ADA and EEOC *


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## mark handler (Oct 6, 2013)

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> I only have to enforce IBC 1003.3 (protruding objects into a means of egress)
> 
> Right or wrong?


You already know the answer to that

You need to enforce all codes not exempted, including protruding objects.


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