# Rooftop Terrace



## Jordan (Mar 27, 2017)

I need some help. 

Here is the scenario:

2009 IBC - A2 occupancy 1 story VB construction. There is currently a small flat roof area between two gable roofs. Is it possible to provide a single exterior stair to access the rooftop as an exterior dining area? Occupant load would be around 25. Outdoor dining would be provided elsewhere for accessibility requirements.

I am concerned that this would trigger the need for a sprinkler system 903.2.1.2-3.

Also, is there anywhere that specifically addresses occupying a roof for reasons other that maintenance/mechanical?

Anyone have any ideas?


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## cda (Mar 27, 2017)

Welcome!!

Pa is great state to visit


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## cda (Mar 27, 2017)

How many sq ft on first floor

And what do you figure the ol is on the first floor


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## steveray (Mar 27, 2017)

If it doesn't have a roof over it, then it is not a fire area...

FIRE AREA. The aggregate floor area enclosed and
bounded by fire walls, fire barriers, exterior walls or horizontal
assemblies of a building. Areas of the building not provided
with surrounding walls shall be included in the fire area
if such areas are included within the horizontal projection of
the roof or floor next above.


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## steveray (Mar 27, 2017)

There will be some debate as far as "outdoor dining provided elsewhere" as acceptable for accessibility...


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## Jordan (Mar 27, 2017)

cda said:


> How many sq ft on first floor
> 
> And what do you figure the ol is on the first floor


What are you referring to with "ol"? I am not familiar.


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## Jordan (Mar 27, 2017)

steveray said:


> If it doesn't have a roof over it, then it is not a fire area...
> 
> FIRE AREA. The aggregate floor area enclosed and
> bounded by fire walls, fire barriers, exterior walls or horizontal
> ...


This is a good point. I read some references that indicated occupancy of a roof should be treated as an additional floor in terms of loads/exiting.


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## Jordan (Mar 27, 2017)

steveray said:


> There will be some debate as far as "outdoor dining provided elsewhere" as acceptable for accessibility...


Yeah, I figure this will be an uphill battle. the owner really wants to see what it will take to make this happen.


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## Jordan (Mar 27, 2017)

cda said:


> How many sq ft on first floor
> 
> And what do you figure the ol is on the first floor



The SF of the first floor is around 4000. There are two fire areas- 2500 SF for main dining and kitchen. Again, the fire area is to keep the occupant load below 100 to avoid the need for a sprinkler.


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## cda (Mar 27, 2017)

Ol= occupant load

Not sure how with 4000 you are keeping it under 100??

Can you take a picture of the floor plan and post it??


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## Jordan (Mar 27, 2017)

cda said:


> Ol= occupant load
> 
> Not sure how with 4000 you are keeping it under 100??
> 
> Can you take a picture of the floor plan and post it??


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## Jordan (Mar 27, 2017)

Jordan said:


>


https://goo.gl/photos/tLsARUpMgZBKM7UN8


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## Jordan (Mar 27, 2017)

cda said:


> Ol= occupant load
> 
> Not sure how with 4000 you are keeping it under 100??
> 
> ...


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## cda (Mar 27, 2017)

Jordan said:


>





Sometimes if you are not a " full paying sawhorse". You do not have full privalages, such as not having trouble posting stuff.

Plus it helps continue the best code forum in the world

And you get cheap advice!!


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## cda (Mar 27, 2017)

Jordan said:


> https://goo.gl/photos/tLsARUpMgZBKM7UN8




If you can get that "ol" cyphering blessed by the ahj, than you are good to go.

I see you are over 100


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## Yikes (Mar 27, 2017)

Jordan, I think the issue is that you are calling it A2 occupancy, which in Type VB is normally limited to one story per IBC Table 504.4.  You can put A-2 on a second story if the building is sprinklered.

If you are trying to avoid sprinklering:
1.  See if you can call the rooftop space a "B" Occupancy via IBC 303.1.1 or 303.1.2.
2.  For the occupant load reduction to 25 max, see IBC 1004.1.2 (exception).
3.  Check Table 1006.3 for maximum travel distance (75' for B occupancy, I believe).

I did a rooftop deck in City of LA a few years ago.  The city had me break it up into 2 smaller deck areas that were each less than 750 SF.  The areas were separated by planters that were spaced max 4' apart.  the whole thing qualified as a B occupancy.  We posted max occupant loads in each space.  There was a trellis,l but no solid roof over the patio, otherwise the roof would have been treated as an additional "story" per zoning code, and we would also have had to sprinkler the covered spaces.
This roof top also had the following rooms: the top of the staircase, the elevator shaft and elevator lobby, and the mechanical penthouse (solar hot water storage tank).  The city determined these were unoccupied spaces, but we did have to sprinkler them (because the whole building was being sprinklered anyway, for other code reasons).


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## Francis Vineyard (Mar 28, 2017)

One contentious issue for us was limiting umbrellas to be readily collapsible over the table. Not clearly stated in Chapter 31 membrane structures on roofs (buildings, balconies, decks, etc.) shall be regulated as permanent structures for building heights and areas.

Yikes provided good information but his sections are apparently from the 2015.

*2009
1021.1 Exits from stories. *All spaces within each _story _shall have access to the minimum number of _approved _independent _exits _as specified in Table 1021.1 based on the _occupant load _of the _story_. For the purposes of this chapter, occupied roofs shall be provided with _exits _as required for stories.

*TABLE 1021.2
STORIES WITH ONE EXIT*
Second story
(Group B) 29 occupants and 75 feet travel distance

*1004.1.1 Areas without fixed seating.*


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## Yikes (Mar 28, 2017)

Francis - sorry, I missed the 2009 reference!


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## Francis Vineyard (Mar 28, 2017)

Yikes said:


> Francis - sorry, I missed the 2009 reference!


All is well; we are all here to help Get-R-Done right.


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