# EERO Location



## TheCommish (Apr 12, 2021)

Is it acceptable to access the EERO through the attached 12x20 walk in closet?


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## cda (Apr 12, 2021)

My vote,, for 98 reasons,,,,   NO


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## classicT (Apr 12, 2021)

No.. the closet becomes a separate room at that point; therefore, the EERO is not located in the sleeping room.


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## Rick18071 (Apr 12, 2021)

What classicT said


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## fatboy (Apr 13, 2021)

No to the enth.......


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## No Soup for you (Apr 13, 2021)

I would agree on the no, 

but does the "walk in closet" have a door? or is it a trimmed opening


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## Yikes (Apr 13, 2021)

What NSFY said.  If no door on the closet, then it is merely an alcove, and it's all in the same room.


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## cda (Apr 13, 2021)

SO window allowed in the master bathroom?

So window allowed in the safe room?

So window allowed in the attached den?

So window allowed in the attached setting area?


Where does it end?



And there are no other windows in this bedroom??


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## Glenn (Apr 13, 2021)

Yeah, I too would expect to see the EERO in the bedroom, but just for fun, let's be daring...  Let's think this through outside of the book.

I'm in my bedroom.  I'm pretty familiar with it, including the window in the big arse closet.  I wake to smoke alarms.  I head to the bedroom door and am blocked by fire/smoke.  So, I go back in the bedroom.  Then I go out the window in my attached closet.  The fire that was blocking my bedroom door is not also in my closet.  I get out.  All is good.

I'm in my bedroom.  I wake to smoke alarms.  Smoke and fire is coming out of my closet.  I leave the room through the bedroom door and head to the egress door of the dwelling.

I'm in the large finished basement with no sleeping rooms.  I pass out on the couch.  I wake to fire at the top of the basement stairs.  I have to go through the rec room, down the hall past the wet bar, through a door to the unfinished portion, turn the corner, pass the furnace and I escape through the only required and compliant EERO for the basement.

I'm going to need help understanding why (outside of the book) it would be too risky for the EERO to be in the closet.

I would preface that with saying the closet has no other door to another part of the house. I'm assuming the closet is bound by walls and is only accessed by the bedroom.

What about if the EERO in the closet was a full size door with stairs to grade, but an EERO in the bedroom would be a minimum size window 3 stories above grade.  Hmmm... I'm thinking I'd take the door from my closet over the window...

Come on guys...  Dare to close the book and talk this one through with me.  I'm sure I'm missing something.


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## cda (Apr 13, 2021)

Glenn said:


> Yeah, I too would expect to see the EERO in the bedroom, but just for fun, let's be daring...  Let's think this through outside of the book.
> 
> I'm in my bedroom.  I'm pretty familiar with it, including the window in the big ass closet.  I wake to smoke alarms.  I head to the bedroom door and am blocked by fire/smoke.  So, I go back in the bedroom.  Then I go out the window in my attached closet.  The fire that was blocking my bedroom door is not also in my closet.  I get out.  All is good.
> 
> ...




You stumble over the 1000 pairs of men's shoe on the floor, hit your head, pass out, they drag your almost lifeless body out.

You decide the closet is not big enough, so you sell it, at closing they want a code compliant window actually in the bedroom.


And once again,,,,, NO windows in the bedroom, or are they full height fixed???


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## No Soup for you (Apr 13, 2021)

just to be devils advocate....

you are asleep in the bedroom, but are a guest and you have no idea the EERO is in the closet.

HEY CDA.......

What MAN has that many shoes to trip over


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## cda (Apr 13, 2021)

No Soup for you said:


> just to be devils advocate....
> 
> you are asleep in the bedroom, but are a guest and you have no idea the EERO is in the closet.
> 
> ...



Gene Simmons


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## Glenn (Apr 13, 2021)

No Soup for you said:


> just to be devils advocate....
> 
> you are asleep in the bedroom, but are a guest and you have no idea the EERO is in the closet.
> 
> ...


Okay...  You are a guest in the basement sleeping on the couch.  You have no clue the only EERO is in the bedroom with the closed door where the teenager lives.  Perfectly compliant and acceptable risk.

When I am faced with something not perfectly spelled out in the code, I first do a risk assessment.  Then I see if that risk is tolerated elsewhere in the code.  If it is, then I include that in my analysis.

If it is reasonable that an entire finished basement with no sleeping rooms has only one EERO (not even required in the finished area), then I believe we assume that the risk of shoes on the floor or the homeowners crap where ever is a non-discussion.  The argument of "non-familiarity" is a tough one that the IRC doesn't really support.  This is why I focused on the occurrence of fire, where is it, and what are the occupants choices.


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## cda (Apr 13, 2021)

Glenn said:


> Okay...  You are a guest in the basement sleeping on the couch.  You have no clue the only EERO is in the bedroom with the closed door where the teenager lives.  Perfectly compliant and acceptable risk.
> 
> When I am faced with something not perfectly spelled out in the code, I first do a risk assessment.  Then I see if that risk is tolerated elsewhere in the code.  If it is, then I include that in my analysis.
> 
> If it is reasonable that an entire finished basement with no sleeping rooms has only one EERO (not even required in the finished area), then I believe we assume that the risk of shoes on the floor or the homeowners crap where ever is a non-discussion.  The argument of "non-familiarity" is a tough one that the IRC doesn't really support.  This is why I focused on the occurrence of fire, where is it, and what are the occupants choices.




The argument of "non-familiarity" is a tough one that the IRC doesn't really support.


Code does use “Special Knowledge”


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## ICE (Apr 13, 2021)

Glenn,
I understand the logic you wish to apply i.e. the EERO in a closet is no worse than the basement example that you provided, I can't agree with the premise.  While the one does not seem worse than the other, when the word "worse" is involved I tend to wonder why we allow the first "worse" ....much less endorse another "worse".


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## redeyedfly (Apr 13, 2021)

Label the closet a bedroom and the bedroom a closet on the plan.  No code against accessing a bedroom through a closet. No code against putting closet hardware on the walls of a bedroom.


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## Glenn (Apr 13, 2021)

ICE said:


> Glenn,
> I understand the logic you wish to apply i.e. the EERO in a closet is no worse than the basement example that you provided, I can't agree with the premise.  While the one does not seem worse than the other, when the word "worse" is involved I tend to wonder why we allow the first "worse" ....much less endorse another "worse".


I just like code discussions that get to the heart of the matters.  I have for many editions considered submitting an IRC proposal to require the EERO for a finished basement with no sleeping room to be in the finished part.  But I stop at "why"?  I usually happens anyway.


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## Glenn (Apr 13, 2021)

cda said:


> The argument of "non-familiarity" is a tough one that the IRC doesn't really support.
> 
> 
> Code does use “Special Knowledge”


Yeah, but that's more about familiarity with hardware or a product, not a house design.  Like hot having to be on the left... sure that's familiarity, but a little different.  On another note, "special knowledge" was struck from window operation and window well covers in the 2021 IRC.  I didn't support the removal and spoke against it at the hearings.  But... well...


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## fatboy (Apr 13, 2021)

You are just a trouble maker Glenn.....  

Oh, and no.

If, ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we all would have a merry christmas!


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## TheCommish (Apr 14, 2021)

Shows you thinking Glen, I agree the code requires a EERO in the sleeping area, the plans clearly label the WIC as such. 
Sometimes make sense of the code and real life are opposing forces

This is an addition without the rest of the house shown, which is reported to have an EEOR in the sleeping area, once the complete plan is presented we will see.

I was preparing for the discussion if it needed to happen.

Thanks to all


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## Rick18071 (Apr 14, 2021)

What if the "required outside of the sleeping room smoke alarm" is in the bedroom closet too? It would comply to what the code says.

Let's not forget the 'Rescue" part of the EERO. If any fireman can tell us if there would be a problem with entering a closet rather then directly into the bedroom.


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## JCraver (Apr 14, 2021)

Yikes said:


> What NSFY said.  If no door on the closet, then it is merely an alcove, and it's all in the same room.





redeyedfly said:


> Label the closet a bedroom and the bedroom a closet on the plan.  No code against accessing a bedroom through a closet. No code against putting closet hardware on the walls of a bedroom.



Either one of those is the right answer.  I'd approve either one, because they pay me to enforce the code and the code doesn't prohibit either.


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## Pcinspector1 (Apr 14, 2021)

I would also say NO and question if the bedroom meets the natural light requirement?


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## Yikes (Apr 14, 2021)

Pcinspector1 said:


> I would also say NO and question if the bedroom meets the natural light requirement?



If you equip the bedroom with artificial light, then there is no natural light requirement.


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## Yikes (Apr 14, 2021)

redeyedfly said:


> Label the closet a bedroom and the bedroom a closet on the plan.  No code against accessing a bedroom through a closet. No code against putting closet hardware on the walls of a bedroom.


That will work if the walk-in closet is also big enough to meet minimum habitable room dimensions.


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## cda (Apr 14, 2021)

Approve

What meets code or intent

What you can sleep with at night 

What you can justify live at five or in front of Judge Judy.


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## redeyedfly (Apr 14, 2021)

Yikes said:


> That will work if the walk-in closet is also big enough to meet minimum habitable room dimensions.
> View attachment 7748
> 
> 
> ...


12x20 in the OP


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## Yikes (Apr 14, 2021)

redeyedfly said:


> 12x20 in the OP


Agreed.  Just need to confirm a 7'-6" ceiling height to call it a bedroom.


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