# Other issues during inspections



## jar546 (Jan 11, 2010)

You are here for a non-related issue.  As you are inspecting a rough wire for a finished basement you just happen to see this on the older original fuse box.

What would you do?

What are you required to do?


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## raider1 (Jan 12, 2010)

Re: Other issues during inspections

I would make the homeowner aware of the violation and the danger and recommend that they consult a qualified electrician and have the problem fixed.

Chris


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## JBI (Jan 12, 2010)

Re: Other issues during inspections

What I _would_ do, is what raider suggests.   

What I am _required_ to do is fairly debateable.  :roll:

Oddly, that simple 'observation' could be ruled an unwarranted invasion of privacy/illegal search in a court of law.     Sadly, the same attorney that makes _that_ motion would be calling it _'non-feasance'_ if you remain silent and there is a catstrophe.   

'Catch 22', 'Damned if you do, damned if you don't', pick your clichee.

Opinions will vary...


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## 480sparky (Jan 12, 2010)

Re: Other issues during inspections

I am not required to do anything about it.

I would bring it to the attention of the homeowner and give them my opinion.  If they decide to not repair it, I ask them to sign an Unsafe Electrical Deferral form.


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## jim baird (Jan 12, 2010)

Re: Other issues during inspections

ditto sparky


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## EPrice (Jan 12, 2010)

Re: Other issues during inspections

I'm not an attorney, but I have attended a couple of classes conducted by an attorney concerning legal aspects of inspection.  Here's how I understand the privacy thing.  If I'm walking down a public sidewalk and I happen to see something at a private home that is a code violation, I have not violated that homeowner's privacy rights.  If, however, I lean a ladder up against his fence and look over the fence to see the code violation, then I have violated his privacy.  If I have been called to his property to perform an inspection and in the course of that inspection I notice a code violation not directly related to that inspection, without going out of my way to do so, I have not violated his privacy.  If I were to go into a room or open an enclosure not required to perform my inspection, and I notice a code violation, then I have violated his privacy.  I suppose the legal interpretation of this would vary from state to state.

If I notice a code violation during an inspection that is not directly related to the inspection that I am performing, but it has real potential to be a safety hazard, I believe I am ethically obligated to call it out and I have done so in the past.  I think the double lugging of copper and aluminum conductors along with the apparent lack of over current protection for the smaller conductors would constitute such a safety hazard.

Now, I agree with 480sparky from the perspective of an electrician.  If it is outside the scope of his permit, it is not his obligation to fix it.  It becomes the responsibility of the home owner to have the code violation fixed.  The home owner would probably come out ahead to negotiate a price to have the electrician who is there doing work anyway, fix the problem.


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## Architect1281 (Jan 13, 2010)

Re: Other issues during inspections

In most jurisdictions I would assume that the enabling legislation for the code the official and the protection of public safety

will address what is generally reffered to a "UNSAFE CONDITIONS" .

In RI it is Article 124 in the enabling legislation and what I refer to as "THE DIRTY DOZEN"

Unsafe items 1 through 12 that panel would be at least 2 of the items.

Items which are always "EYES OPEN" on any inspection

A notice of unsfe conditions MUST BE ISSUED with the recipient then having 30 days to correct or appeal.

The option is available for iminent dangers to be immediatly corrected or disconnected.

seeing conditions such as that and leaving them there is unconsionable ?? sp?


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## D a v e W (Jan 13, 2010)

Re: Other issues during inspections

Eprice..... my understanding as well...... I'll go one step further, again after listening to attorney's speak to us. Once you have the knowledge and see a violation other than what you are inspecting at the time, you do have a responsibility to bring it to the owners attention. That's the minimum for liability reasons. Again that's any attorney's citing 4 yeears ago in Colorado law regarding this specific question, he also stated most all other states have the same requireements.      Do not shoot the messenger  :roll:


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## Mac (Jan 14, 2010)

Re: Other issues during inspections

My responsibility is to inform the owner of the condition, offer a brief explanation, and write it into the basement wiring inspection report. I can't pretend I didn't see it, which creates an obligation to call it out. The chances of this ever involving lawyers & judges is quite slim IMHO.

If something bad happens, my jurisdiction has a defensible position.


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## Mango (Jan 14, 2010)

Re: Other issues during inspections

Bring it to the homeowner's attention in the form of a violation notice or include it on the failed inspection report. The homeowner or previous homeowner was most likely the one who installed it. You are not violating anyone's privacy, you are potentially saving someone's life!

Mango


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## jar546 (Jan 14, 2010)

Re: Other issues during inspections

My humble opinion and my practice whenever I legally see something while I am there for another reason:

Bring it to the owner's attention & the contractor's attention IN WRITING on the inspection report that I am there for.

Explain to the owner that this is an unsafe condition and I am obligated to report it to you.

Give them a time frame to fix the problem because I require that it be fixed.

Never had a problem.  The owner's appreciate bringing it to their attention (delivery and explanation is everything) although some gripe that they can't afford it.  The contractors appreciate getting the additional work.

Here is a real life example:

Went out for a service inspection on a change from a 100A 2 gang to a 200A 2 gang.  Outside looked great.  EC took me inside the basement to see the new main panel, new disco to an existing panel.  The cover was off the panel that was a subfeed off the new disco.  I noticed that only 3 wires were leaving the disco and there were only 3 wires coming into the sub-feed in the other room of the basement.  It was impossible for me to sign off on a new installation since he was reconnecting old wiring that was not code compliant.

I required that they run a new 4 wire and properly set up the sub-feed as such.  Owner whined but the job got done and the home was safer than it was.


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