# God  Awful  ADA



## conarb (Dec 7, 2017)

Today I made reservations for Christmas dinner for my family in a restaurant named Vic Stewart's named after a dining car built in 1901, it will be the last time since the restaurant is closing after the first of the year because of the God Awful ADA, the dining car is incorporated within the restaurant and it's pretty hard to get wheelchairs into dining cars.

This is all part of what's now known as the "cultural Marxist" agenda of egalitarianism that you guys enforce as code requirements, at least other manifestations of cultural Marxism, like black rights, Anti-fa, feminist rights, etc. etc. etc. ad infinitem are not enforced by gestapo like code tactics, makes you want to push them out of their stinking wheelchairs, yet it's not their fault, they are being used by the egalitarian cultural Marxists to achieve their one-world agenda, RIP the Vic Stewart:


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## steveray (Dec 8, 2017)

And I am sure they have not made enough money since 1901 to improve their facility.....Lame excuse.... that being said, it sounds like the dining car is not the only dining area? In that case I doubt the ADA would require access to the car area, I would think under reasonable accommodation that other areas would fit the bill....But I am not an expert.


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## mark handler (Dec 8, 2017)

steveray said:


> And I am sure they have not made enough money since 1901 to improve their facility.....Lame excuse.... that being said, it sounds like the dining car is not the only dining area? In that case I doubt the ADA would require access to the car area, I would think under reasonable accommodation that other areas would fit the bill....But I am not an expert.


*Not that old, not deemed historic.* 

http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/10/24/walnut-creek-depot-poised-to-go-from-steaks-to-retail-shops/
Plans to partially demolish, rebuild and expand the existing 6,936-square-foot former train station, ...
The depot was first built in 1891 near where the railroad tracks...
The building was acquired by the city, which sold it to Herrington, who moved it a short distance south. 
Vic Stewart’s steakhouse opened there in 1989; it is still open today, but will close sometime early next year, Herrington said.
The additions to the building would be in keeping with its railroad theme, which has survived seven remodeling projects.
The “Victor B Stewart,” a century-old rail passenger car that is essentially *an addition to the east side of the old depot building* that serves as a private dining room, will likely be removed from the property as part of the remodel. Herrington said the car, used as a dining room, is not Americans With Disabilities Act-compliant.
*The city didn’t want the old car....*


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 8, 2017)

God had nothing to do with the ADA and your complaint so why do you want him to condemn the ADA


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## JPohling (Dec 8, 2017)

Weak excuse.  I am sure they can make that area of the dining room accessible with enough effort.


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## conarb (Dec 8, 2017)

Mark said:
			
		

> The “Victor B Stewart,” a century-old rail passenger car that is essentially *an addition to the east side of the old depot building* that serves as a private dining room, will likely be removed from the property as part of the remodel. Herrington said the car, used as a dining room, is not Americans With Disabilities Act-compliant.
> *The city didn’t want the old car....*


*
*
Of course the city didn't want it, what would they do with it, not make it a restaurant that people could enjoy a dining experience within, the best they could do is spend taxpayers' money to get it declared historic and make a museum out of it.   As it is people (like me) pay money to dine in it so it's a piece of history that is self-supporting, or maybe even profitable.  

Erasing history for political purposes is repugnant, in my school they are taking portraits down from the walls to bury the fact that all prior honored professors were white.



			
				Stanford Magazine said:
			
		

> Still, I failed to _notice_ the racial uniformity of the portraits when I passed them by. But I suspect their whiteness was all too visible to generations of students of color who gazed with some unease at those images when they walked to and from class. The thought “I don’t belong here” must have gripped many of them for a moment at least.
> 
> I am happy to say that the photographs have now come down. No one with a sense of proportion could think that the pictures’ removal was a big victory in creating a more welcoming environment for students of color in the Graduate School of Education. But I’ll take small successes whenever I can find them. The faculty can find another and better way to honor their predecessors.
> 
> Eamonn Callan_ is the Pigott Family School of Education Professor in the Graduate School of Education and, by courtesy, a professor of philosophy._



And my point here is the force of this discriminating law is being enforced by the codes and building departments, as well as the fear of an outrageous lawsuit that could bankrupt any business.  You don't help disabled people by harming able bodied people, you don't help students of color by harming white people, we are living in a time where books are being banned, statues torn down, and names are coming off buildings all in the name of egalatarianism and cultural Marxism.


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## jar546 (Dec 8, 2017)

This initial post is so blown out of proportion it is not even funny.  The language of the header and the misleading agenda is rather pathetic and quite frankly, I'm surprised.  There are always options and just one mentioning of the ADA does not mean this was the driving force.  You took a mole hill and tried to make a mountain out of it with your spinnerama move.  This is total BS.  The city did not want the car and whoever owns the property is trying to make more money by developing it to fit modern times.  
Boo hoo.


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## ADAguy (Dec 8, 2017)

Hope when I reach 80 I am not as bitter as the old man.
Turned 70 today and am more concerned about "T" and the Holy Land then some old parlor car.
ADA benefits us all but then most of you know that.


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## conarb (Dec 8, 2017)

Bottom line, because a gimp can't get into the dining car I can't get in either.


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## fatboy (Dec 8, 2017)

wow...........


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## jar546 (Dec 8, 2017)

conarb said:


> Bottom line, because a gimp can't get into the dining car I can't get in either.



You really let out who you are as a person.  Do you always have to find something to be angry about?  Did you have to twist the real story and post what you did without factual information?  I know you are outspoken against ADA but this...... this was a surprise.  I thought more highly of you than this.


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## Msradell (Dec 8, 2017)

conarb said:


> Bottom line, because a gimp can't get into the dining car I can't get in either.


Just Wait to you are that gimp and can't get someplace!! You then will be on the other side of the coin complaining why everyplace doesn't comply with the ADA. It sounds like in this case the owner is just using that as an excuse during his remodeling project. Probably very difficult for servers etc. going up and down into that car anyway. The problem for accessibility could be very easily solved with minimal effort if he really wanted to.


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## conarb (Dec 8, 2017)

jar546 said:


> You really let out who you are as a person.  Do you always have to find something to be angry about?  Did you have to twist the real story and post what you did without factual information?  I know you are outspoken against ADA but this...... this was a surprise.  I thought more highly of you than this.


 I have not twisted the story, I was going to post the whole story but since the picture of the dining car was in a Flash program I had to wait a long time and click to allow it, knowing that a lot of computers do not allow Flsh anymore I decided to take a picture of the dining car as it passed by so you could see it.

Where have I twisted the story?  I know the owner, he has been high up in Republican politics here, in fact, Chairman of the Republican Central Committee for many years.   I haven't talked to him in several years and it could be that he wants to move in another direction, but the fact is that the ADA compliance is forcing the issue. 



> Just Wait to you are that gimp and can't get someplace!! You then will be on the other side of the coin complaining why everyplace doesn't comply with the ADA. It sounds like in this case the owner is just using that as an excuse during his remodeling project. Probably very difficult for servers etc. going up and down into that car anyway. The problem for accessibility could be very easily solved with minimal effort if he really wanted to.



At my age that day may well come, in fact I've talked to many friends in wheelchairs, walkers, and using canes, none of them like it either, one said the curb cuts were fine but the rest of it wasn't worth the hatred they get, I don't even agree with the curb cuts being fine, having pushed friends in wheelchairs I find it no burden to turn around and pull the chair up over the curb.   I have never in my life asked for special consideration, I've always paid my own way and proud of it, I can remember going to college when friends went to Cal because it was free, I went to Stanford and worked my way through because I was too proud to take from the government.  Between the years 1901 when the car was built and 1990 when the ADA was passed how did disabled people manage to get on trains, ride in them, and dine in dining cars? I've had that experience having traversed the country by train in 1939 and 1945, I remember the dining cars well, neither my wife nor my son have ever ridden on a train, or dined in a dining car, so this will be their last chance to get a small taste of the experience, future generations willl never have this opportunity as we erase history in the name of political correctness.  There are several steak houses in Walnut Creek where the disabled can go, why do they have to go in this one?


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## MtnArch (Dec 9, 2017)

The Napa Valley Wine Train (which utilizes vintage rail cars) addresses how they accommodate disabled passengers/customers here:
http://winetrain.com/faq/#Wheelchair


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## mark handler (Dec 9, 2017)

MtnArch said:


> The Napa Valley Wine Train (which utilizes vintage rail cars) addresses how they accommodate disabled passengers/customers here:
> http://winetrain.com/faq/#Wheelchair


Those that do not believe In the value of something for themselves will find any and all excuses not to do it, blame it, or to criticize it.


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## conarb (Dec 9, 2017)

MtnArch said:


> The Napa Valley Wine Train (which utilizes vintage rail cars) addresses how they accommodate disabled passengers/customers here:
> http://winetrain.com/faq/#Wheelchair



What is nice about that train is that they have made reasonable accommodations that are apparently acceptable, but it is a train and not part of a building, just a few: 



			
				Napa WIne Train said:
			
		

> There is no way to access the Vista Dome car without climbing stairs. Inside the Vista Dome car there are seven steps, each 8 inches tall. There is a handrail on the right side only.
> Moving in a wheelchair while the train is in motion is difficult, and guests who require a wheelchair should move only when advised to do so by our staff.
> If a guest with a mobility preference wishes to move about the train, they must be assisted by a member of their party.
> At this time we cannot accommodate guests with mobility preferences on any of our tours.
> ...



The Vic Stewart has been around for 117 years for people to use and enjoy, but now it is leaving us because of tyrannical codes and laws, we could have done as Canada has done and only apply handicapped standards to new construction where it would harm virtually no one. 



			
				Mark Handler said:
			
		

> Those that do not believe In the value of something for themselves will find any and all excuses not to do it, blame it, or to criticize it.



And then there are those who delight in telling others what to do and how to live their lives.


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## mark handler (Dec 9, 2017)

Haters Gonna Hate


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## ICE (Dec 9, 2017)

The point behind what conarb said is overshadowed and lost because of the words he chose.  But hey now, there is no surprise Jeff.....it's conarb.....he has all of the English language at his fingertips, yet he uses inflammatory rhetoric.   Nothing new about that.

The issue of ADA has more than one side but if one is on the side that rejects ADA, castigation and ridicule go with that.  That's too bad in that there are obvious flaws with the tact that society has followed.  Rather than embrace technology which would aid the disabled in superior fashion, we went down a rabbit hole.

There is more to the ADA code than us mere mortals can digest....it takes a Casp.  A recent new market/gas station had the Casp dude nail them for $3k.  If he was slow it was a $500 per hour payday.

I have witnessed projects that were eliminated by the ADA code.....be it the cost, the aesthetic, or physical impossibility, The ADA shot it down.

There are awful ramps aplenty.  Ramps that cost as much as the TI that brought them.  I witnessed a 300k sq.ft warehouse with a TI of 600 sqft in a back corner result in 100' of ramp.  It was done for coder geeks that made it all happen for a gamer company.  Oh and there is a long ramp at the entrance as well but the ADA demanded a ramp for the three coders and their Segways.

There isn't a healthy balance of the ADA sides.  It's all or nothing.  No room for a divergent view.

Had society used a trifling of what's been spent on ADA compliance on R&D, wheelchairs could fly.


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## mark handler (Dec 9, 2017)

ICE said:


> .... It's all or nothing.  No room for a divergent view.


And that is not true, Ice have you read CBC Section 11B-202.4?
I grant hardships ever week based on CBC Section 11B-202.4.

We get BS as to how long Vic Stewarts has been open in the train station see
http://www.vicstewarts.com/walnut_creek_history.php
Dec 1993 not the BS of when the rail car was built
and they have other locations
and they chose to close and not to relocate this Particular Restarant


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## ICE (Dec 9, 2017)

"There isn't a healthy balance of the ADA sides. It's all or nothing. No room for a divergent view."

That has to do with the argument....not the actual code.  Notice the use of the word "hater".


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## mark handler (Dec 10, 2017)

ICE said:


> "There isn't a healthy balance of the ADA sides. It's all or nothing. No room for a divergent view."
> 
> That has to do with the argument....not the actual code.  Notice the use of the word "hater".


It Is all or nothing  for some, Just like any topic
Look at today's politics
They are not the main stream.
Most people understand compromise.


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## ICE (Dec 10, 2017)

ADA should not be enforced by a building dept.  While a building dept seems like a logical candidate, as you say Mark, most people understand compromise.  Along with understanding compromise comes an expectation that they will experience compromise.  There is scant room in ADA for compromise.

With all of the code that I enforce, I can point to a reason for each individual code.  There is a benefit that's recognizable which the builders and owners can understand.  They are the beneficiary so in the long run I can convince most of them that my enforcement is for their benefit.  It's not like that at all with ADA.  They see it as a transfer of their wealth to the disabled community.  There is no payback other than the minuscule wealth that returns.  They are getting screwed and they know it. 

And not just the cost of construction......lawyers finagled a way to cash in and others.......The business I mentioned earlier is a flat lot, big wide doors and huge bathrooms.  Why on Earth would there be a need for a CAsp report.  Well that's because there's a thousand things to measure and if any one of them is off by an inch a shyster can find a teat to suckle.


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## conarb (Dec 10, 2017)

ICE said:


> ADA should not be enforced by a building dept.  While a building dept seems like a logical candidate, as you say Mark, most people understand compromise.  Along with understanding compromise comes an expectation that they will experience compromise.  There is scant room in ADA for compromise.



Number One the private right of enforcement must go, and all of it must go, it legalizes extortion. Friday I was at my mechanic's shop and he was telling me that the tire shop in front of him was hit by that attorney from Sacramento in a wheelchair for non-compliant bathrooms, now he's holding his breath, he asked me if the landlord shouldn't be responsible?  I told him the law is unclear, both landlord and tenant end up being responsible.  There are several automotive businesses there, each business is allocated so many parking spaces, each has hired a line painting company to identify their spaces, now the question becomes which ADA labeled spaces belong to which businesses?  Some have too many, some none or not enough, so he asked me if disabled people can use any handicapped space they find?  All I could think to say was "Probably yes, for one business to complain that customers of another business are using their handicapped spaces is highly unlikely, every business is scared to death of this law."   Then of course he asked: "But what about that "so and so" in the wheelchair from Sacramento?"


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## north star (Dec 10, 2017)

*@ ~ @ ~ @*

There is absolutely no need whatsoever to use inappropriate
language on the Topic Heading, or in other parts of the responses.
I changed it to be less offensive.

C`mon ***conarb***, ...please watch your language !

This *IS* a quality and respected Forum.......Please do not diminish
Jeff's and others efforts with vulgar and inappropriate language.

*@ ~ @ ~ @*


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## Msradell (Dec 10, 2017)

conarb said:


> I can't do that right
> At my age that day may well come, in fact I've talked to many friends in wheelchairs, walkers, and using canes, none of them like it either, one said the curb cuts were fine but the rest of it wasn't worth the hatred they get, I don't even agree with the curb cuts being fine, having pushed friends in wheelchairs I find it no burden to turn around and pull the chair up over the curb.   I have never in my life asked for special consideration,



You are correct, you don't need a curb cut if you have a manual wheelchair with somebody help you but, if you are in a power wheelchair there is no other way to get up on the sidewalk without a curb cut. Some of us have no other option than to use a power wheelchair because of our disability. Like you I never ask for anything in my life and always was a giver but when I became disabled because of a severe illness I certainly learned to appreciate small things that made my life easier. Curb cuts, ramps etc. may seem silly and a wasteful expense to you but when you are at the point in life that you need them they are wonderful!



conarb said:


> Number One the private right of enforcement must go, and all of it must go, it legalizes extortion.



I agree, private enforcement is a curse and should be eliminated. However, the only way to eliminate it is to have some kind of public enforcement. Otherwise, everybody will just totally ignore the ADA everyplace. They already ignore it here in Kentucky because there is no means of private enforcement and government and code officials just look the other way! There should be a enforcement method implemented in all parts of the country so that everything is on an equal playing field.


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## conarb (Dec 10, 2017)

Msradell said:


> You are correct, you don't need a curb cut if you have a manual wheelchair with somebody help you but, if you are in a power wheelchair there is no other way to get up on the sidewalk without a curb cut. Some of us have no other option than to use a power wheelchair because of our disability. Like you I never ask for anything in my life and always was a giver but when I became disabled because of a severe illness I certainly learned to appreciate small things that made my life easier. Curb cuts, ramps etc. may seem silly and a wasteful expense to you but when you are at the point in life that you need them they are wonderful!
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, private enforcement is a curse and should be eliminated. However, the only way to eliminate it is to have some kind of public enforcement. Otherwise, everybody will just totally ignore the ADA everyplace. They already ignore it here in Kentucky because there is no means of private enforcement and government and code officials just look the other way! There should be a enforcement method implemented in all parts of the country so that everything is on an equal playing field.



Now we are getting somewhere, get rid of private enforcement, grandfather existing businesses in like Canada does, this generation of handicapped people will suffer inconveniences just like all prior generations of handicapped people, but life will be better and/or easier for future generations.

Another issue here, I know the owner John Herrington, he is another Stanford guy (we stick together) he is also a developer and I am frankly surprised that he has held on to that restaurant as long as he has, I suspect that he wants to hold on to that leased site and redevelop it into something more profitable, but we are surrounded by Democrats and as soon as he made application to redevelop that property there would be demonstrations and pickets all over the place screaming "Save  the Rail Car", "Save Vic Stewart", so he can use the ADA as an excuse to redevelope the property into something more profitable.    This is mere speculation on my part, but people use bad law to their advantage, and if I am wrong I apologize to John.



			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> In the Reagan Administration, Herrington served as Assistant Secretary of the Navy (Manpower and Reserve Affairs) from 1981 to 1983, deputy assistant for presidential personnel from 1983 to 1985, and Secretary of Energy from 1985 to 1989.
> 
> After government service, Herrington was the Chairman of Harcourt, Brace, Jovanovich, Inc. Herrington remains active in politics in his home state, having served for a time as Chairman of the California Republican Party. He currently owns Vic Stewart's, a nationally recognized steakhouse, with locations in Contra Costa County: Walnut Creek and Brentwood. He also develops real estate, and acts as an advisor to numerous corporations.¹




¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S._Herrington


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## tmurray (Dec 11, 2017)

conarb said:


> ... I don't even agree with the curb cuts being fine, having pushed friends in wheelchairs I find it no burden to turn around and pull the chair up over the curb.   I have never in my life asked for special consideration...



What happens when the wheelchair user has no friend to pull them up over the curb? The intention of most of these codes is to allow people with impairments to be as independent as possible. 

Here is our barrier free regulation: http://laws.gnb.ca/en/ShowPdf/cr/2011-61.pdf

It still has lots of measurements. it's long at 32 pages...we'll 16 I guess, since half of it is in French...


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## mark handler (Dec 11, 2017)

tmurray said:


> What happens when the wheelchair user has no friend to pull them up over the curb? The intention of most of these codes is to allow people with impairments to be as independent as possible.
> Here is our barrier free regulation: http://laws.gnb.ca/en/ShowPdf/cr/2011-61.pdf
> It still has lots of measurements. it's long at 32 pages...we'll 16 I guess, since half of it is in French...


",,,If alterations are made to an existing building, universal toilet rooms conforming to Article 3.8.3.12. are permitted to be provided in lieu of facilities for persons with physical disabilities in washrooms used by the general public..."

",,,where alterations on the entrance level are made to add a sleeping unit to a tourist home, the alterations shall include
a) one sleeping unit conforming to Article 3.8.3.18.,
b) a barrier-free entrance designed in accordance with Article 3.8.3.3.,
c) a barrier-free path of travel conforming to Article 3.8.1.3., and
d) one parking stall for each required sleeping unit under this Sentence conforming with Sentence 3.8.2.2.(5)...."


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## tmurray (Dec 11, 2017)

Yes sir, If you are doing a tenant improvement, we will make sure it complies as much as possible with our regulations.


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## JCraver (Dec 11, 2017)

Heated on both sides.  These ADA discussions always are.  Until the .gov changes the law, we'll be right here where we are.

IMO I think the legislation was flawed from the beginning.  Kinda' like Obamacare.  Takes some creative reading to justify either as being constitutional when applied to private business/individuals - the law / forced compliance should only apply to government/public entities. 

But it doesn't, and my opinion doesn't matter - we're stuck with it, so just enforce it the best you can and roll on.  Much like the rest of the codes - hard to be impartial when we let our opinions get involved.


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## ADAguy (Dec 11, 2017)

1. ADA "is not" a code, it is a law.
2. The "code" (intended to mimic to a degree the ADA) is enforceable by AHJ's
3. Ramps are not the only means of rising 100"'s
4. Many benefits take time to be achieved, yes 27 years is a long time.
    Attorneys only seek "legal opportunities" which was the unintended result of Unrhu. Bottom feeders exist in
    many forms but so do those who seek to sidestep their "legal" responsibilities. 
5. This tread gives much "food" for thought but much is poison (smiling).
6. As the late Ed Kemper would say, "we chair users cannot hide or like some others cannot change the colors of our skin". Does this mean we should stay indoors so as not incur the wrath of those whose us as different?
7. Lastly, if as Conarb would prefer there were no codes, would he be willing to be bound by Hamurabi and give up his son if one of his projects collapsed?


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## tmurray (Dec 11, 2017)

ADAguy said:


> 7. Lastly, if as Conard would prefer there were no codes, would he be willing to be bound by Hamarabi and give up his son if one of his projects collapsed?


I really don't think that he want's no code, just the ones he feels are reasonable. Unfortunately, we all have a different measuring stick to what is and is not reasonable based on our past experiences. He is relatively blessed to not have experienced the discrimination that many people experience daily and as such cannot comprehend how this affects someone. 

My father was the same way, but for a very different reason. He managed a store that was fully accessible. He didn't want it to be required so that idiots would build things that are not accessible and then customers would prefer to come to his store, as they could navigate it and shop independently. He said he has a lot of people with mobility impairments mention how easy to navigate his store is. I was surprised to find that a respectable percentage of a farm supply store's clientele had an impairment.


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## ADAguy (Dec 11, 2017)

Thank you TM.  Farming is a profession prone to many disabling injuries. Imagine designing an accessible dairy visited by school kids.


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## Sifu (Dec 11, 2017)

As an ideology, I would like to think the free market would influence compliance with accessibility codes.  As tmurry points out, his father had an accessible location BECAUSE IT WAS GOOD BUSINESS.  In theory, patrons who needed an accessible location would frequent his store, thereby increasing his business, and encouraging other businesses to follow his model to get their share of the business.  
Unfortunately, that idea probably doesn't work in the real world.  The percentage of people who need accessibility provisions is just too small to make most businesses spend a lot of money on accessible modifications.  That's why the government had to step in and act on their behalf, something I agree with.
I think (hope) most businesses want to provide reasonable accessibility. The problem is in who decides what is reasonable.  Right now, it appears that the legal system is playing a large part in that, via the plethora of lawsuits using the laws to make money, and not to address problems with accessibility (at least not directly or even as a prime motivation).  Add to that, a hodgepodge of who and how the regulations are enforced.  This creates mistrust of the law-makers and push-back by those most affected by the laws, which is also creating resentment against the community these laws are designed to help.  This appears to be a cascading problem, with people on both sides digging in their heels.  It doesn't help when someone "_can use the ADA as an excuse to redevelope the property into something more profitable_."  That seems a little hypocritical.
This has and will continue to be a hotly debated but important topic, and as diplomatic as I am trying to be, I probably just ticked somebody off.  That's the nature of the debate. But maybe through these debates, we can find common ground.


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## Sifu (Dec 11, 2017)

tmurray said:


> I was surprised to find that a respectable percentage of a farm supply store's clientele had an impairment.


Both my father in law and a friend of mine lost their hand/arm in a corn picker.  Many times they have gotten looks from other farmers, with a knowing nod of the head.


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## conarb (Dec 11, 2017)

On signing the measure, George H. W. Bush said:



> I know there may have been concerns that the ADA may be too vague or too costly, or may lead endlessly to litigation. But I want to reassure you right now that my administration and the United States Congress have carefully crafted this Act. We've all been determined to ensure that it gives flexibility, particularly in terms of the timetable of implementation; and we've been committed to containing the costs that may be incurred.... Let the shameful wall of exclusion finally come tumbling down.



We old people have seen our freedoms lost, the Bill of Rights was designed to protect people from the government and limit the government's power, and not give the government more power over us:

The First Amendment  gives us the right of free speech, and the freedom of association, if a crippled person can't get into the Vic Stewart, we would be able to say too bad gimp.
The Fourteenth Amendment (passed after the Bill of Rights) says all people have to be treated equally, that means no special treatment for some.
California's Unruh Act was promoted by Big Daddy Unruh, a horrible corrupt Democratic politician who was known for giving bribes as a lobbyist and taking them as a politician, he must have weighed 500 lbs, hence the name Big Daddy, but his concerns were his problems as a fat person (he did slim down later in life and was known for an affair with the movie actress Raquel Welch, since affiars by politicians are in the news today).
My hope was that a new administration would clean house in the Department of Justice and reform the ADA and California would follow suit, as it's turned out the DOJ is loaded with corruption itself, almost daily reports are coming out about corruption in the FBI, Special Council, and the Attorney General's office itself, the new Attorney General is doing nothing so there is no hope the the DOJ can be reformed, and the ADA is far down the list of corrpuption, at this point in time all government from the top down is corrupt.   All I can say is be reasonable in your administration, be sure that your enforcement doesn't harm anyone or cost other's money, maybe use Bush's signing statement as your guideline and be flexible and reasonable.

So far this has cost society unknown trillions of dollars, whether Herrington is using it as fear of ADA or is using it as a way to get out and make more money by redeveloping the leased land is irrelevant, cities use it all the time as an excuse to get new city halls, police stations, and especially parks, it is bad legislation, capable of being used and abused, it takes from some and gives to others.


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## ADAguy (Dec 11, 2017)

Well stated Sifu, thank you.


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## ADAguy (Dec 11, 2017)

Where do you come up with these statements ConArb?! New facilities in many cities and counties are the result of local growth, need to expand services and obsolescence of existing facilities, not the result of the ADA; it is only a component of the new/altered facilities along with FLS and structural.


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## VillageInspector (Dec 12, 2017)

conarb said:


> On signing the measure, George H. W. Bush said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




William J Clinton signed this act into law not G Bush 41


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 12, 2017)

In 1986, the National Council on Disability had recommended enactment of an Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and drafted the first version of the bill which was introduced in the House and Senate in 1988. The final version of the bill was signed into law on July 26, 1990, by President George H. W. Bush. It was later amended in 2008 and signed by President George W. Bush with changes effective as of January 1, 2009.[3]


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## mark handler (Dec 13, 2017)

Dup


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## mark handler (Dec 13, 2017)

Senate votes in  1990:YEAs76 NAYs8  Not Voting16
Bipartisan support
Surprised they are not blaming the black guy

One outspoken supporter, former republican senater, Bob Dole


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## VillageInspector (Dec 13, 2017)

I stand corrected.


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## mark handler (Jan 2, 2018)

mark handler said:


> Senate votes in  1990:YEAs76 NAYs8  Not Voting16
> Bipartisan support
> Surprised they are not blaming the black guy
> 
> One outspoken supporter, former republican senater, Bob Dole


Another strong supporter of the ADA, Sen. Orrin Hatch will retire at the end of his term

Sen. Orrin Hatch, a Republican, helped with it's passage.


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