# Backfilling without supporting foundation wall?



## RyanBuilder (Apr 9, 2018)

Building a home in New Hampshire and the inspector is insisting that I either install the 1st floor deck or support the foundation walls before backfilling.  These are 10" walls with 2 bars up top and 1 in the middle.  I've installed foundations in 20 different cities/towns in the New Hampshire and Massachusetts and the only person who had reservations was a structural engineer because there was no rebar in that one and he was half joking about the wall not being able to hold back the fill.    

We are going to have 6' of unbalanced fill on a 16' long, 8' tall wall that will slope down quickly.  The rest are stepped to 5' panels that will only have 3' of unbalanced fill at the most.  I've never had or have heard of a foundation failing because of this before framing.

Can anyone educate me on this? or show me where it's listed in the code?  Thanks for any help.  This is my first post here.


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## fatboy (Apr 9, 2018)

The inspector is overstepping his bounds.....nothing in the building code addresses when is the appropriate time to backfill. This is the contractors responsibility, and liability.

Welcome!


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## north star (Apr 9, 2018)

*@ ~ @*

RyanBuilder,

Also, ...Welcome to The Building Codes Forum !  

Is it possible for you to politely \ respectfully request that the
Inspector please cite the applicable Code sections, so that
you can learn more about backfilling ?.......If not the Inspector,
what about the Building Official ?......You are trying to learn
what is compliant in that particular jurisdiction, and on and on
and on, etc., etc., etc.

*@ ~ @*


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## mtlogcabin (Apr 9, 2018)

2012 IRC Table R404.1.2(4) 
MINIMUM VERTICAL REINFORCEMENT FOR 10-INCH NOMINAL FLAT CONCRETE BASEMENT WALLS b, c, d, e, f, h, i
MAXIMUM UNBALANCED
BACKFILL HEIGHTg
(feet)
g.    Where walls will retain 4 feet or more of unbalanced backfill, they shall be laterally supported at the top and bottom before backfilling.

Check the 404 tables they are all different


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## fatboy (Apr 9, 2018)

IMHO, the tables that refer to unbalanced backfill are in regards to a sustained load. Timeline on backfill, to framed floor is usually within 1-30 days. Again, contractor choice and responsibility/liability.


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## fatboy (Apr 9, 2018)

fatboy said:


> IMHO, the tables that refer to unbalanced backfill are in regards to a sustained load. Timeline on backfill, to framed floor is usually within 1-30 days. Again, contractor choice and responsibility/liability.



OK, cardinal sin, replied without really reading the post. Need to go check quoted section....my bad.

Was ready to delete my reply.


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## fatboy (Apr 9, 2018)

I'll go with north star, based on mtlogcabin's reference, too many variables........politely ask the inspector.

MT, thanks, had not ever noticed the footnote.


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## RyanBuilder (Apr 10, 2018)

Thank you Fatboy, MT, and North Star.  We only have 12' feet of wall on each side where we will have 6'-4' of backfill.  I will politely ask the inspector what he'd like to see here.  Thanks again!


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## tmurray (Apr 10, 2018)

We have never had the first floor framing installed when backfilling here and have never seen a problem.


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## Francis Vineyard (Apr 10, 2018)

Isn't odd that footnote is not in Tables for masonry foundation walls?
*
R404.1.7 Backfill placement*. Backfill shall not be placed against the wall until the wall has sufficient strength and has been anchored to the floor above, or has been sufficiently braced to prevent damage by the backfill.
*Exception:* Bracing is not required for walls supporting less than 4 feet of unbalanced backfill.


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## FLSTF01 (Apr 10, 2018)

R404.1.7 applies here.  That being said, back when I was building, we always backfilled before framing the deck and never had a failure.  A 40 foot long wall can bow in some (without cracking) from the pressure, but I seriously doubt a few 1/2 inch bolts, through a 3/4 hole in a soaking wet 2x6 sill plate would have prevented that anyway.  Backfill gingerly with good material.


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## Paul Sweet (Apr 10, 2018)

I found out the hard way not to let the bulldozer run close along the wall to compact the soil, unless you want a wall like the one in Francis's post.

It's the contractor's risk.  If there's a deluge before the floor framing is in, and the wall fails, he gets to clean up the mess and start over.


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## JCraver (Apr 11, 2018)

I wasn't ever any kind of "big time" builder, but I have built a fair amount of houses - not one single time did I backfill, or let anybody else backfill, before the floor was on and the basement walls were framed.  There's plenty of things to worry about when you're trying to make money building houses - no need to buy any extra when you don't need to.  IMO, of course.


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## ADAguy (Apr 23, 2018)

It appears that in your situation there is no geologist involved? If there were there would be directions provided by him.


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## Mark K (Apr 23, 2018)

There is a difference between what is in the codes and what you should do.  I am not sure that this issue should be in the building code since it is likely covered by OSHA and if this is the case local jurisdictions are precluded from regulating..

Just because you dodged the bullet on previous projects does not mean you should continue to do it.  This is like surviving a round of Russian roulette and then trying it again with the same gun.

If you backfill a basement wall before the floor is in place and the plywood is nailed off you should consult with a civil engineer.


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