# WTF Missouri



## jar546 (Feb 12, 2010)

Just had a preliminary meeting for a $4.5M renovation project on a commercial structure which will be a multi-use facility.  Major renovations, adding stairwells, B, R1 & more.

The company is from Missouri and was expecting the permit fee which includes all plan review and all inspections for all disciplines to be under $2,000 because that is what they would have paid back home.

WTF!!


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## Mule (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

I just had the plumber for Walmart question his $2100 permit fee for $500,000 worth of work. He stated that they never paid more than $200 to $300 for a permit before.


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## Coug Dad (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

The City of Seattle has an online fee calculator so you can have a comparison.

http://www.seattle.gov/dpd/about/Fees/DPD_2010%20Fee%20Estimator.xls


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## Coug Dad (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

Here is the link for Omaha, Nebraska.  It looks like plumbing starts at $8.00 per fixture and electrical starts at $2.00 per circuit.

http://www.cityofomaha.org/planning/permits/applications


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## Mule (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

We don't do fixture count for commercial jobs. It's based on cost of contruction. We decided we spend a lot more time on commercial jobs doing partial inspections, meeting with contractors blah blah blah.


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## jpranch (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

Ok, I'll take some heat on this one. 180,000 sq ft recreation center. Total permit fees: $5399.00. We are cheap!!!


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## cboboggs (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

We have two different fee schedules. One based on square footage for new construction. One based on construction cost for remodels. Plus we charge a whopping $5 per required inspection. We are cheap.


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## Mule (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri



			
				jpranch said:
			
		

> Ok, I'll take some heat on this one. 180,000 sq ft recreation center. Total permit fees: $5399.00. We are cheap!!!


Just the building permit would run you around $8,025...........


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## TJacobs (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

Our building permit base fee would be $33,750.00, no MEP or plan review included...


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## Mule (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri



			
				TJacobs said:
			
		

> Our building permit base fee would be $33,750.00, no MEP or plan review included...


What is the valuation for the building??????????? WOW $33,750 :shock: How can you justify that type of fee???

I bet you guys don't get very many recreation center applications do you! :?


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## Coug Dad (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

It would be very interesting if there is a ranking list of permit fees and then evaluate how well the area is doing economically :?:


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

4.5 million

Building permit fee $23,677.35 Building only

Plan review fee        $ 15,390.28 includes mech, plumbing, fire sprinkler and alarms.

About 1% of the project valve


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## knockadse (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

JAR,

     What part of MO? In my AHJ 2,000 wouldn't even cover permit fees and a water tap for a single family dwelling. State law here prohibits most counties (3rd and 4th class) from enforcing building codes, so where the codes are enforced permit fees need to cover a good portion of department costs.

Conclusion...I think they are pulling your leg.


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## RJJ (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

I would have told them this ain't Missouri! And don't forget the 4.00 for the Governor! :lol:


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## jar546 (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri



			
				knockadse said:
			
		

> JAR,      What part of MO? In my AHJ 2,000 wouldn't even cover permit fees and a water tap for a single family dwelling. State law here prohibits most counties (3rd and 4th class) from enforcing building codes, so where the codes are enforced permit fees need to cover a good portion of department costs.
> 
> Conclusion...I think they are pulling your leg.


Springfield area so they say


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## Coug Dad (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

my mistake. wrong occupancy.


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## pwood (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri



			
				RJJ said:
			
		

> I would have told them this ain't Missouri! And don't forget the 4.00 for the Governor! :lol:


RJJ= the voice of reason :mrgreen:


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## pyrguy (Feb 12, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

The AHJ i used to work for would of been about $35000 plus MEP and LV fees.

They have since gone up on fees.


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## fatboy (Feb 13, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

$4.5M = $20,472 permit (all trades included) $7,165 plan review, $25,637 total.

Jeff get that all the time, had a basement permit a couple weeks ago,  that a contractor swore the neighboring jurisdiction was so much cheaper. I walk over to the computer and pulled their fees up, and they also were still using the 97 UBC table. Kinda shut them up......... :lol:


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## RJJ (Feb 13, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

How many sf and how many floors?


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## Gene Boecker (Feb 15, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

Hey Jeff!

Just out of curiosity, was the "firm" of the arkitekt or corntractor variety?


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## TJacobs (Feb 15, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri



			
				Mule said:
			
		

> TJacobs said:
> 
> 
> 
> > Our building permit base fee would be $33,750.00, no MEP or plan review included...


What is the valuation for the building??????????? WOW $33,750 :shock: How can you justify that type of fee???

I bet you guys don't get very many recreation center applications do you! :?

For alterations and remodeling the building permit fee is (0.0075 x project cost) as stated on the permit application by the applicant.

For a new building it is (0.0075 x building valuation) as determined using the BVD chart from ICC as amended by us.

http://www.algonquin.org/egov/docs/1228849277_350830.pdf


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## Kearney.200 (Feb 19, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

In my JHA it is .40 x sf for building permit and yes I am in the mighty MO

then there would be metter set and sewer connect and all trades to add to that


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## Big Mac (Mar 3, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

Do you folks not use the building valuation table provided by ICC as a basis for your fee schedule.  You do know they publish a suggested valuation table based on "type of construction and occupancy" twice a year right?


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## georgia plans exam (Mar 3, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

We use the ICC building valuation table but, we have been using the same one since 2003.

GPE


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## cboboggs (Mar 3, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

We are far from being an enterprise system. Our fee schedule for new construction is based on square footage under roof using a value from 1963 (can't convince the governing body to raise them. Our remodel and addition fees are a little more modern with an average of $3 per $1000 estimated construction cost ( I do use the ICC valuation if I think we are being lowballed.) We do charge a whopping $5 per required inspection.


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## Mule (Mar 3, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

cboboggs, I had that same problem until I finally convinced the council it was not politically correct to "tax" the citizens that do not use the service ie. building permits. I convinced them it is a user fee and that the citizens using the service should pay the fees and not place a burden on the other taxpayers to pay for someone elses project.


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## cboboggs (Mar 4, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

I'm glad that worked for you. I have tried that and every other tactic I could think of. Still no luck. :evil:


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## Mac (Mar 4, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

I verify the cost of commercial construction by requiring a bid award letter or other verification of cost.

Permit fee here would be $5,532.


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## doyt (Mar 16, 2010)

Re: WTF Missouri

Gee a 180,000 sq ft recreation center would be a city project right?   We would charge nothing for the permits as long as it was a city project.  Now if the YMCA were to build the recreation center then the Building Permit would be based on square footage (180,000 square feet)x($500 plus $12/100 square feet)= $22,100 +3% State Surcharge (and we are just a small burg).  This would be in addition to a Plan Review Fee, Zoning Fee, Sanitary Sewer Tap In Fee, street opening permit, curb cuts, plus the mechanical permits.  When all is said and done the permit fees would total in excess of $46,000.

Can you send one or more of these rec centers our way?


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