# Re-roof permit



## Kevin Turner (Sep 8, 2011)

Just curious about how many jurisdictions there are that require a permit for re-roofing? And if required in your jurisdiction, what kind of inspections are you performing?

Thanks in advance for any feed back


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## Pcinspector1 (Sep 8, 2011)

Our city by ordinance has exempted re-roof permits. We have had two hail storms this year with the phone ringing like crazy. Questions center around the ice sheild requirement, from insurance companies and contractors. The 2006IRC requires the ice sheild but the previous code official did not require it. You will see that the 2012IRC will allow the old ice sheild to remain and allow a second ice sheild to be installed over the existing sheild .

If I had to do the inspections:

A ladder would have to be provided and possibly fall protection by the roofer or my city. Removal down to sheeting required, felt type underlayment required, replacement of rusty metals, shingle manufacture wants the ridge shingles attached properly against the prevailing wind, flashings, clean-up and business license checks, final inspection.

A previous city I worked for required re-roof permits not for the fees it generates but because their elder population was being ripped off by the storm chasers and shotty workmanship!


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## fatboy (Sep 8, 2011)

We do require permits. We do a mid-roof after tear off and felt/flashing installation, then a final inspection.


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## Pcinspector1 (Sep 8, 2011)

fatboy, do you walkabout the roof during the inspections?

pc1


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## Codegeek (Sep 8, 2011)

One of the jurisdictions I worked for required re-roof permits mostly to verify that the materials matched those permitted through the development ordinance, as the list of approved materials was very limited.  The inspectors did a mid-phase inspection, after a complete tear off as multiple layers of anything were not permitted.


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## fatboy (Sep 8, 2011)

5/12's and less..........


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## Pcinspector1 (Sep 8, 2011)

We had a homeowner installing a 3-tab over two 3-tabs and one wood shake roof, Chief said go get'em

No double shingled roofs allowed here, complete tear-off

pc1


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## fatboy (Sep 8, 2011)

We are in the hail zone, so a total tear-off is required on any roof. We also amended the IRC to require drip-edge as in the IBC.


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## ICE (Sep 8, 2011)

I have worked in jurisdictions that require an inspection after the sheathing has been approved and the roofing work has begun.  I was surprised at the violations that were caught at that inspection.

I have a question.  When roofing over an existing asphalt shingle roof, do you require new undelayment, or do you allow the new shingles directly over the old shingles?


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## codeworks (Sep 8, 2011)

i prefer overpament, versus underpayment , which i am currently not (sic) we don't require permits for reroofs ( don't know why, haven't been here long enough to know all the details) i woudnot reroof over existing shingles personnally, it (imho) shortens the life span of the new roof. poor substrate, exessive heat, etc, etc,


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Sep 8, 2011)

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> A previous city I worked for required re-roof permits not for the fees it generates but because their elder population was being ripped off by the storm chasers and shotty workmanship!


This is primarily why we require re-roof permits.  We do not perform inspections, but review the requirements with each applicant, and document the involved parties.  On average, I would say our permits account for about 50% of the re-roofs performed within our AHJ.   Every winter our lines are buzzing with water problems in the walls and ceilings.


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## Pcinspector1 (Sep 8, 2011)

I have a question.  When roofing over an existing asphalt shingle roof, do you require new underpayment, or do you allow the new shingles directly over the old shingles?

ICE, no requirement to install felt between asphalt shingles that I'm aware of. Felt required on the sheeting only. Felt also gives a little weather protection if it was to rain which would protect the sheeting if it's overlapped properly. I don't have a problem with a second layer if you don't let the shingles curl up  and you have a flat surface. Even if the shingle have a little curl I have seen roofer axe them out. I would'nt go over two 3-tab shingled roofs personally. In my AHJ a double roof is not allowed per code IRC2006, but someone on another code like the IRC2003 may be allowed to have a double roof.

pc1


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## Pcinspector1 (Sep 8, 2011)

Papi,

All are good reasons listed to issue permits for re-roofing IMO. Including ice dams.

pc1


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## righter101 (Sep 8, 2011)

Our Jurisdiction

We require permits for commercial re roofing.

Residential are not required if replacing like for like.

Residential required if removing say shake and changing to tile, verify DL adequate.

We are in a low wind zone and have no hail issues though.


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## jwilly3879 (Sep 8, 2011)

NY Residential Enegry code requires the insulation to be checked if the sheathing is exposed and if required insulated above or below the sheathing. No one wants to do a tear off anymore.


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## ICE (Sep 8, 2011)

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> ICE, no requirement to install felt between asphalt shingles that I'm aware of. Felt required on the sheeting only. Felt also gives a little weather protection if it was to rain which would protect the sheeting if it's overlapped properly.
> 
> pc1


Pc1,

I have heard reasons for and against installing underlayment.  Manufactures reps. aren't consistent.  Some have said that underlayment is always required and some not.  When asked if a lack of underlayment could void a warranty, they reply that it depends on the subject defect.  I have seen manufactures installation guidelines that show a method called "nesting shingles" if underlayment is to be omitted, with the proviso that local codes may not allow it.

Those same manufacturers produce expensive underlayment that is required, per their product warranty, on high end shingles.

2009IRC:

Section R905 REQUIREMNETS FOR ROOF COVERINGS.

R905.1 ROOF COVERING APPLICATION.

Roof coverings shall be applied in accordance with the applicable provisions of this section and the manufacturers installation instructions.

R905.2 ASPHALT SHINGLES.

The installation of asphalt shingles shall comply with the provisions of this section.

R905.2.2 SLOPE

For roof slopes trom 2" up to 4" pitch, double underlayment is req in accordance with Section R 905.2.7.

R905.2.3 UNDERLAYMENT.

Unless otherwise noted, *required* underlayment shall conform to ASTM........

R905.2.7  UNDERLAYMENT APPLICATION.

For roof slopes 2" up to 4" pitch, underlayment shall be two layers applied in the following manner........

For roof slopes of 4" pitch and up, underlayment shall be one layer applied in the following manner........

SECTION R907 REROOFING.

R907.1 GENERAL.

Materials and methods of application used in *re-covering* or replacing an existing roof covering shall comply with the requirements of Chapter 9.

Definitions:

Roof recover.  The process of installing an additional *roof covering* over a prepared existing roof covering without removing the existing roof covering.

A "recover" is the installation of a "roof covering".  Apparently, a roof covering is required to have underlayment.  Where is the loophole?


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## mn joe (Sep 8, 2011)

We are in a hail zone so we require a tearoff.  With the ice barrier, I have found that it will often destroy the roof deck if you try to remove it so I allow it to remain.  If it is dinged up then the contractor can go over it.  For inspections I require digital pictures of the roof at tear off and showing the ice barrier.  Usually I get way more pics than I need.  The pictures is a common practice in this area.  I DO NOT go up on the roof except in special instances.  I also do a final inspection.  We have had a lot of hail storms this summer.  We did 255 re-roof permits in August just in the rural areas of the county.  The cities in the county did way more than that.

Joe


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## Kevin Turner (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks to all that posted. We are trying to figure out if we should, or should not require a permit. And the level of inspections. Thanks again.


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## steveray (Sep 12, 2011)

We do....up a ladder or on the roof if needed at "roof start"  see I&W, nailing and underlayment...amazing what guys don't know...It is no guarantee that the roof will be done perfectly, but hopefully eliminates a bunch of issues....  saw a kid the other day nailing his architectural shingles about 2" down from the top!!! How hard is it to read the package, and who the heck did he learn that from?????

We have a town nearby that makes contractors strip the bottom 3' on a recover to put I&W on at that point....!!!!!


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## TJacobs (Sep 12, 2011)

We do what mn joe does except tear-off only required at 3rd layer.  We require I&WS on tear-offs (if not existing) and new construction only.


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## BSSTG (Sep 13, 2011)

Greetings,

What I've found to be spooky is when these guys reroof and knock the gas flue pipes loose and are no longer terminated in the roof jack. Lo and behold they don't get fixed and there ya go, combustion gases in the attic.

BS


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## David Henderson (Sep 16, 2011)

We require permits. Three inspections required. tear-off to look at condition of decking requiring repair as needed, in progress, underlayment,flashing etc. and a final


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## Alias (Sep 19, 2011)

Permit required if changing type of roofing and tearing-off two layers.

Like for like for second layer, no permit required.

I do a pre-inspection, mid-inspection, and a final.  Yes, I do get up on the roof if under 5 and 12.  It's amazing some of the nailing patterns that I have seen.


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## Alias (Sep 19, 2011)

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> We had a homeowner installing a 3-tab over two 3-tabs and one wood shake roof, Chief said go get'emNo double shingled roofs allowed here, complete tear-off
> 
> pc1


Had one with 4 layers - 1 wood shake, 1 wood shingle, topped with two layers of comp.  I could hear the house sigh with relief when they did the tear-off.


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## beach (Sep 19, 2011)

Sheathing/material inspection (material loaded at time of inspection...... we had a roof collapse when they loaded it with tile, permit showed comp.), core required if going over existing to verify number of layers.....

Contractor has to provide ladder for all inspections

final inspection when complete, usually don't go on roof if tiled due to possible breakage liability


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## TimNY (Sep 19, 2011)

jwilly3879 said:
			
		

> NY Residential Enegry code requires the insulation to be checked if the sheathing is exposed and if required insulated above or below the sheathing. No one wants to do a tear off anymore.


What section is this?

TIA,

Tim


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## mtlogcabin (Sep 20, 2011)

No re-roof permits for 1&2 family dwellings unless more than 10% of the sheathing needs replaced

Re-roof permits on all commercial. Include a roof plan showing existing equipment and a materials list identifing the roof classification. If adding more insulation an engineer may be needed to determine the roof snow load on older buildings. Some older building where designed to allow the heat to melt the snow thereby reducing the designed roof snow load an increase in insulation will increase the snow loading. The roof plan is required to determine if guards should be installed next to mechanical equipment since getting this done during a re-roof would be more cost effective then when a mechanical unit is changed out.


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## inspectorgadget (May 2, 2013)

we allow 2 layers only, but what do you do when you have to do any repair on a roof with 2 layers ? would you allow them to repair or would you make them do a complete tear off ? homeowner had some wind damage that ripped off a section of shingles  ( less than a 4x8 section ) homeowner would like a tear off but the insurance co. wants to repair ( imagine that ) I can't find anything in the IRC .


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## globe trekker (May 2, 2013)

My AHJ is in the midst of a "roofers swarm" due to a recent hail (weather) event!

Baseball sized and larger hailstones were present!

We have had a departmental policy change to now require roofing permits. We do

not have the manpower to perform inspections, but DO register the various

contractors to get some sort of minimum compliance.

We have been perfoming random, "drive by", visual inspections (yes, ..I know!) on

the multiple neighborhoods where roofing activity is going on, ..pretty much AHJ

wide! We would not perform any type of actual "on-the-roof" inspections, because

of liability/insurance restraints.

If the roofing contractors do not have a permit card from our department, then we

stop in and have a chat with them.

Lots of shoddy workmanship, ..high pressure sales pitches, ..selling extras that

aren't needed to the masses. In at least one project; less than 2 weeks old,

the roof is already leaking after the roofing contractor has packed up and

moved on to the next victim.

*Request To You All:* In your circles of influence, ..please, ..please, ..please

inform every person that you come in to contact with; and will actually listen

to you, to research thoroughly, every single contractor that they potentially

want to hire for any type of project. In my experience, it is not just the roofers

that are preying on people!

.


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## jar546 (May 7, 2013)

One of the biggest issues that I see with re-roofing, especially when there is a tear off is the re-use of existing, damaged or incorrect flashing on sidewalls or chimneys.  I always see on the job site the pre made flashing that is only about 3x3 or 2-1/2x2-1/2.  This and whenever I see tar around a chimney in lieu of counter flashing.

Some times, in order to do a proper roof install, you have to remove the lower part of the siding which many contractors refuse to do.  I personally did do that going back into the 80's when I first started doing re-roofs.


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## chuck Miller (May 7, 2013)

I recently inspected a roof where the owner was so proud that they had their roof redone. It was an old house that had gable vent at each end. But the roofer sold them on a ridge vent. It was not a bad job just not very good. Instead of re doing chimney flashing they cut strips of ice shield and stuck it on. In the attic I saw that they only cut one side of the ridge open so that about a 1/4 to half inch of air spacewas open. Since there was already gable vents the lower half of rafters and sheathing got no circulation and the wood was driping wet. Of couse the bath vent only made it to the top of insulation. The owner was not happy when I left.


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## fatboy (May 7, 2013)

Yikes!

Welcome to the forum, and major kudos to you for being a sawhorse at your first post!

Hopefully you will find this to be an incredibly worthwhile investment, as we have, please continue to share.


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