# Another Deck Question.....



## Alias (Oct 20, 2010)

Okay, I was called for an inspection on a deck/covered porch.  I went out today to do a roof sheathing inspection and the whole thing is almost done.  As this is a deck/covered porch, I also did the framing inspection while there.

When I looked at how the ledger was attached to the house is when I got concerned.  The contractor used 3" Hilti pins to attach the ledger to the filled CMU foundation wall of the house.  This is a new contractor here in town and I have not seen the ledger attached in this fashion before.  Is this okay?

Sue, who will be checking the board after work.........


----------



## Mark K (Oct 20, 2010)

The pins would then be 1.5 inches into the concrete.  The capacity would be no more than that of a similiar diameter nail in wood and possibly less if limited by the CMU.  I would doubt that it would work.

I assume that the IRC does not address this situation which would mean that it does not comply unless it can be justified by engineering calculations.


----------



## Alias (Oct 20, 2010)

Mark -

Thanks for the quick response.  We're under the 2007 CBC but am looking for all opinions.

Sue, welcome to CA..........argh!


----------



## mtlogcabin (Oct 20, 2010)

Agree they will not work, but these should.

http://www.simpsonanchors.com/catalog/mechanical/titen-hd/index.html

1604.8.3 Decks.

Where supported by attachment to an exterior wall, decks shall be positively anchored to the primary structure and designed for both vertical and lateral loads as applicable. Such attachment shall not be accomplished by the use of toenails or nails subject to withdrawal. Where positive connection to the primary building structure cannot be verified during inspection, decks shall be self-supporting. For decks with cantilevered framing members, connections to exterior walls or other framing members shall be designed and constructed to resist uplift resulting from the full live load specified in Table 1607.1 acting on the cantilevered portion of the deck.


----------



## Jobsaver (Oct 20, 2010)

mt: Recommended for permanent dry, interior non-corrosive environments or temporary outdoor applications.


----------



## RJJ (Oct 20, 2010)

Agree with MT! No Nails other then to hang the ledger for temporary leveling. Then bolt it. See link above on MT's post.


----------



## mtlogcabin (Oct 20, 2010)

Jobsaver nice catch.

I know these are only a 1/4" but depending on the loads they might work.

http://www.simpsonanchors.com/pdf/catalogs/C-SAS-2009/C-SAS-2009-p166.pdf


----------



## fatboy (Oct 20, 2010)

Or, you require the permit applicant to submit a design that you can approve?


----------



## beach (Oct 20, 2010)

We typically see 1/2" chemical anchors or Hilti bolts around 24" O.C. into CMU for decks, patio covers, etc ....but people tend to overbuild around here


----------



## JBI (Oct 20, 2010)

Not sure how hilti pins can overcome the 'not subject to withdrawl' language.

For concrete or solid/filled block, I would bolt through, but that's not the only solution.


----------



## Daddy-0- (Oct 20, 2010)

Agree with JBI above or make the deck freestanding.


----------



## Alias (Oct 21, 2010)

Thanks for all the responses.  I will be calling the contractor today to let him know that this is not acceptable.  When we originally discussed thie project, I told him that the ledger has to be bolted to the wall or he could build it as a freestanding structure.  Obviously, he didn't follow directions too well.

Sue, sunny with a chance of snow on Friday...........


----------



## tbz (Oct 21, 2010)

Sue,

These would work from Hilti for Solid CMU, we use them all the time, the cost is min. and they are an easy application for adding to this type of installation with "TEMPORARY FASTENERS"  already installed.

http://www.hilti.com/holcom/page/module/product/prca_catnavigation.jsf;jsessionid=955FDAAFDA3A433267847A4913C83976.node3?lang=en&nodeId=-11213


----------



## peach (Oct 21, 2010)

tell him to prove that it works.. (which means he gets to hire an engineer)... OR just do what the code says to do.


----------



## Alias (Nov 4, 2010)

I sent a letter to the contractor as he did not return my phone call. He came in this AM with the box of fasteners and the driver. Gee, it is what I thought it was, your basic redhead. I have now tracked down and printed the ES Report and will be calling him with my answer.

Fix it before I will final it.

Sue, tired of stupid...............;-)


----------



## FredK (Nov 4, 2010)

Alias said:
			
		

> ....Sue, tired of stupid...............;-)


Aren't we all, but it's what keeps us in a job.


----------



## fatboy (Nov 4, 2010)

"Fix it before I will final it.

Sue, tired of stupid...............:wink: "

yup.........aint it the truth...........sigh........


----------



## globe trekker (Nov 4, 2010)

Alias,

You mean they actually call for "Finals"? Hmmmmm.... That's a new concept! 

.


----------

