# Misuse of NM



## jar546 (Mar 2, 2011)

Type IIB construction.  Apartments above this future business/mercantile space (tbd).  This will be the drop ceiling area when the space gets a fit out.

Just love seeing this.  I believe there was a 1 hour separation for this. (did plan review 2 years ago)

Anyway.  Nice when people are caught.


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## Pcinspector1 (Mar 2, 2011)

Jar,

Agree current NM is in violation, and if a drop ceiling is installed then the NM would still be a NEC code violation correct?

Is that a fire rated foam or insulation?

pc1


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## KZQuixote (Mar 2, 2011)

"Just love seeing this."

Who did the plan review for the apartment permit? I realize that you're not responsible, but did you flag the separation?

Bill


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## 480sparky (Mar 2, 2011)

Interesting.   Hopefully they're not 'phased' with the tape because they're paralleled.


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## Darren Emery (Mar 3, 2011)

Just curious - anyone else unable to view Jar's photos becuase of an IT deparment block on photobucket?  I'm bummed that I cannot check out the latest photos!


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## 480sparky (Mar 3, 2011)

Try right-clicking on the 'image', then choose "Show Image" or "View Image".


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## Francis Vineyard (Mar 3, 2011)

The foam sealant used here is most likely for draftstopping not rated ASTM E 814 or UL 1479. 



Though not electrical related it appears below the rated ceiling are steel beams of supporting construction. And what’s that a wood block at the plumbing penetration? And does anyone have a problem with metal hanger supporting PVC?


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## Darren Emery (Mar 3, 2011)

Unfortunately - that doesn't work either.  Photobucket is a blocked site - can't view anything from there at work...


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## Pcinspector1 (Mar 3, 2011)

Ya, Francis, why is'nt that beam covered?

The pipes should be sealed with fire stop caulking or other approved item unless there is a fire foam out on the market? Anyone know of such a product thats approved?


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## raider1 (Mar 3, 2011)

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> Jar,Agree current NM is in violation,* and if a drop ceiling is installed then the NM would still be a NEC code violation correct?*
> 
> Is that a fire rated foam or insulation?
> 
> pc1


Yes, NM cable is not permitted to be installed above a dropped ceiling in other than dwelling units. Check out 334.12(A)(2).

Chris


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## fatboy (Mar 3, 2011)

Same thing here Darren.........it sucks.


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## 480sparky (Mar 3, 2011)

Darren Emery said:
			
		

> Unfortunately - that doesn't work either.  Photobucket is a blocked site - can't view anything from there at work...





			
				fatboy said:
			
		

> Same thing here Darren.........it sucks.


I hope the OP doesn't mind my copying it to my web server so you can (hopefully) see it:


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## fatboy (Mar 3, 2011)

Hey thanks 480sparky!

What a mess!


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## TimNY (Mar 3, 2011)

I believe that foam is only rated for sealing around piping as required by the IRC.  In a rated assembly they need a rated penetration.  Not to say there isn't some UL assembly out there with foam.. But I doubt it.


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 3, 2011)

Recognized as an Alternate Fireblocking material for residential construction. Tested according to ASTM E84, ASTM E814 (modified), UL 1715.

http://greatstuff.dow.com/products/fireblock/

It is not a FIRESTOP


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## TimNY (Mar 3, 2011)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Recognized as an Alternate Fireblocking material for residential construction. Tested according to ASTM E84, ASTM E814 (modified), UL 1715.http://greatstuff.dow.com/products/fireblock/
> 
> It is not a FIRESTOP


It's not a fireblocking, either.

ESR-1961 "to fill cracks and voids in construction and to fill the annular space created by the penetration of wood fireblocking by pipes and conduits"

"limited to use in nonfire-resistance-rated partitions where combustible fireblocking is... permitted..."


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## bgingras (Mar 3, 2011)

That stuff burns pretty well. I was out ona  frame inspection last year and the electrican was playing with pieces of it with a lighter, burned pretty quick. I can see where it will stop a draft...until it melts or burns!


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 3, 2011)

Did not check the ESR report.Thanks for keeping me straight

So is that a false or misleading claim on their part ?


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## peach (Mar 5, 2011)

Everything burns (or melts)  if subjected to sustained to enough fire long enough (look at the world trade center).   Request and read the manufacturer's literature.  A quick way to check is take a chunk.. light it.. and remove the flame.. if it doesn't sustain combustion, it may be ok.. if your fingers get singed because the product continue to burn.. don't allow it.   Having said that, there may be other issues (including the fall of the drain lines and PVC being used without a sleeve).. but who am I?


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## Frank (Mar 7, 2011)

The NM cable is also inadequately supported

The administrative question is, can you reject it now as there is no drop ceiling at this time, reference the sprinkler head locations, and therefore it is not currently a violation.  Who knows, the tenant may go with an exposed ceiling.

As others have said the 1 hour separation is not properly protected at the ceiling penetration for the PVC pipe.

For metallic pipe the foam might be ok as a membrane penetration per 2009 IBC 713.4.1.2 exception 1 as the foam would prevent the "free passage of flame and products of combustion."


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## raider1 (Mar 7, 2011)

Frank said:
			
		

> The NM cable is also inadequately supportedThe administrative question is, can you reject it now as there is no drop ceiling at this time, reference the sprinkler head locations, and therefore it is not currently a violation.  Who knows, the tenant may go with an exposed ceiling.
> 
> As others have said the 1 hour separation is not properly protected at the ceiling penetration for the PVC pipe.
> 
> For metallic pipe the foam might be ok as a membrane penetration per 2009 IBC 713.4.1.2 exception 1 as the foam would prevent the "free passage of flame and products of combustion."


Exposed NM cable is not permitted in non-dwelling unit applications.

The space where this NM cable is located is a B or M occupancy and therefore no exposed NM cable.

Chris


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## Francis Vineyard (Mar 7, 2011)

This foam is not permitted in noncombustible assemblies either; materials used to fill the annular space must meet ASTM E 119; complimentary to ASTM E 814. An ASTM E 84 class rating means the material is combustible; would be okay within wood construction.


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