# Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops



## Mule (Feb 9, 2010)

This is a 2X4 on a vaulted ceiling. Just a bit deep!

Sure it'll work!


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## Coug Dad (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

For some reason, I cannot see the photos that you post Mule.  Both on this topic and others you have posted.  Anyone have an idea about what needs to be done so all can view?


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## north star (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

*Mule,*

*I am like Coug Dad in that I too cannot view your submitted pics.    Are you utilizing the ' picturetrail '  site to host your pics.?*

*On the same subject, Jeff seems to be able to host some clear pics. on a regular basis, as did tigerloose when s/he was posting.      What site(s) are they using to host the pics., ...does anyone know?*


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## Mule (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

I'm using Picture Trail to post them. I wonder what the problem is???? I'll try something else.....

Here's a link...does this work?

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL148/1822929/21448713/382467310.jpg

or






or


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## steveray (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

I have no problem seeeing them, but that is an amputation! Not a cut! :shock:


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## Mule (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....OooopsI just saw something on the bottom of "Post Reply"This is an attachment.Does this show up for you guys????Notch in Heel of Rafter.jpg[/attachment:2i3in0uc]

View attachment 63


View attachment 63


/monthly_2010_05/572953b531fb6_NotchinHeelofRafter.jpg.8208c396c65df412bd0c16d081e64dc4.jpg


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## Coug Dad (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

I can see it now.  Thanks.


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## GHRoberts (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

mule ---

I can see the pictures. I can see the overcuts on the bird mouths.

I can also see the stud wall that extends above the plates. It appears that the rafters may not be load bearing.


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## north star (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

*Mule,*

*That last pic. that you posted DID come through!   I CAN see that one.   Thanks for the extra effort.   * 

*In regard to the picture, is it a load bearing element or some type of supporting member*

*[ not necessarily ' load bearing ' ]?    Also, how would the viewing audience repair this?*

*Some type of Simpson-Strongtie brackets... ?*


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## steveray (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

Looks like a "trayed" ceiling or some other type of decorative framing, but will still be "bearing" the dead load of the finish materials. Just because there is no live load, does not mean it is not load bearing. 2X4's are cheap, DO OVER!


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## pyrguy (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

Yep, do over.


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## JBI (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

'Decorative' or not, I agree it must still support the dead load of the ceiling finish (and possibly some insulation?). Is there enough wood left behind the overcuts to support anything? I've seen 13 year olds do a better job with a tree fort than this...     Even without a hand saw, it is possible to make those cuts properly, or at least better than this. I also agree that 2x4's are cheap - cetainly cheaper than replacing everything after the GWB weight brings the ceiling crashing down.


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## brudgers (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

A 16d toenail will support more than 100 lbs.

I doubt the dead load of the tray ceiling approaches that...but you could have them put in two or three just to be sure.

In my opinion, making someone reframe this is asinine.

It's friggn' furring.


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## Mule (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

Keep the comments coming!!!

I'll tell ya what I had them do after a few more comments.


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## TJacobs (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

If this is "just a ceiling" they could probably get by with plywood gussets to strengthen the birdsmouth.


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## north star (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

*Mule,*

*I would look for some type of bracket to address the overcuts,  AND possibly,  install*

*some type of joist hanger thingy at the bottom.*


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## Heaven (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

'ard to say what these might be supposing to support, but if it is only the sidewalls of a tray ceiling I'd leave it be.


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## steveray (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

It's not the connection capacity that is the issue, it's the fact that the 2X's are going to split by tuesday at noon!  :shock:

 That's kinda like saying " if they drywall the ceiling first, then the walls, the wall drywall will hold it up!" It probably would, but it doesn't make it right.


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## Mule (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

I had them put in pressure blocks between the rafters and nail the blocks to the top plate and then nail through the sides of the rafters into the blocks.

Sort-of like we framers did in the old days when we didn't know what joist hangers were!


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## jim baird (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

Sounds like a good, practical solution that doesn't involve the humiliation of tear-out.


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## RJJ (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

In the old days they didn't have joist hangers! They had carpenters.

Oh ya I see them just fine!


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## GHRoberts (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

"I had them ..."

As an AHJ it is poor practice to dictate how a problem needs to be fixed.

But it is always good when both the builder and AHJ agree.


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## Mule (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

Maybe I should have said "We discussed the repair and this is what we came up with!" Because I did discuss it with them..........


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## Mango (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

put a couple of nails in it and move on.


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## peach (Feb 19, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

If you let the framer get away with this without some kind of repair, they'll keep over cutting the rafters, joists.. studs..

make them fix it once, and they'll be more careful.

Insulation and drywall aren't that light.. the overcuts will fail with time (maybe a different homeowner)... but now that it's in the public domain.. have them fix.


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## mmmarvel (Feb 25, 2010)

Re: Heel Cut on Interior Bedroom Ceiling.....Oooops

Mule -

As I looked at the pictures it looked like the rafters behind the one in the picture also had all the overcuts.  While it was a more than adequate fix, what you had them do, sometimes having them do it right helps prevent the problem in future projects.  Sometimes when we give them/allow them the fix, the contractor just figures that we (the inspector) will come up with a fix for sloppy work in the future.  I'm not so sure I'd have allowed the fix; however I know that we all consider circumstances.


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