# Compact Storage



## cpo (Aug 3, 2017)

I've received a comment from a LA reviewer regarding mobile shelving.  The comment states we need to show compliance with the NFPA 13 area limitations for this hazard group and the comment states this area is 1500 SF for This is approximately 200 SF of 10' tall mobile shelving so Ordinary Hazard Group 2. I can not find anything in NFPA 13 that tells me what is required to define this area or even the 1500 SF number the plan checker is citing. What am I missing?  Are we required to have an actual wall?  Rated?  Or just no more than 1500 SF?


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## cda (Aug 3, 2017)

Welcome


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## cda (Aug 3, 2017)

Restate the question?

Are you talking fire sprinkler plan review or a building plan?

Is the building built?

Remodel?


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## cda (Aug 3, 2017)

The other thing to do is ask the nice plan reviewer to cite the section and edition,

Where the comment came from

So you can review the correct section

Especially dealing with 13


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## cpo (Aug 3, 2017)

Thanks for the response.  

The review is actually just for the shelving.  This is for a prototypical retail tenant improvement project in an existing shell and we always have the shelving vendor go in for a separate permit.  I agree the best approach is to ask the reviewer for the code reference but I usually like to review the code before I have a conversation so just hoping someone might know where they're coming from.

To restate the question where in NFPA 13 does it state what is required to enclose mobile shelving which is defined as compact storage?  Do I need a physical barrier, a draft curtain or is it just the area limitation?


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## Insurance Engineer (Aug 3, 2017)

I do not have the 2016 Ed of 13, but I know the 2013 ed does not provide sprinkler density requirements for compact storage. 
See FM Data Sheet 8-33 CAROUSEL STORAGE AND RETRIEVAL SYSTEMS 
They are free from FM.

For sprinkler protection, for storage over 5' they require in-rack sprinklers and design area of 1500-2000 sq. ft with ceiling density of.15-.30 depending on commodity classification. Also the carousel must stop at water flow.


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## cda (Aug 3, 2017)

Retail tenant as in someone that is going to sale to the public
As in like a target store but smaller ?!

I am thinking 13 does not normally dictate

""required to enclose mobile shelving which is defined as compact storage? Do I need a physical barrier, a draft curtain or is it just the area limitation?""

To me you cannot respond to a code section you are not certain they are asking about


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## cda (Aug 3, 2017)

Do you have a link to an example of the storage ??


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## cda (Aug 3, 2017)

????



http://www.sfpe.org/?page=FPE_ET_Issue_34

8) Compact Storage. Compact storage modules consist of record storage shelves or bins on movable rails where there is only one aisle. The shelves or bins are moved on their rails to create the aisle where it is needed to get to any particular record. Full scale fire tests conducted with the Fire Protection Research Foundation2 led to the development of criteria under which these filing systems could be used with light hazard fire sprinkler systems. In order to be used with light hazard, the files cannot exceed 8 ft (2.4 m) in height, only paper records can be stored (up to 5% plastic are allowed for file tabs and other miscellaneous items) and the 18 inch (0.5 m) clearance needs to be maintained for the sprinkler deflector over the top of the storage unit. Additional rules also concern the construction and size of the compact storage modules, which need to be provided with metal longitudinal and transverse barriers and cannot exceed 250 sq ft (23 m2) in area in order to use the light hazard rules. Section 20.6 of NFPA 13 provides all of the specific rules.


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## cda (Aug 5, 2017)

Cpo

Any answers to some of the questions posted


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## PJC89 (Aug 6, 2017)

1,500 square feet is typically the design area which is used for determining the system requirements.  He may be referring to this in order to determine what hazard you are designing to in the 1,500 square foot area.  The Annex in NFPA 13 gives very detailed examples of the different type of use classification.  I would suggest referring to this to ensure that the correct hazard classification is used for the 1,500 square foot design area.  Use the following link to determine what edition of NFPA 13 is applicable and then the second link to gain access to the Annex to make sure you have the correct classification.

https://up.codes/codes/general#2015 

http://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-stand...-and-standards/detail?code=13&tab=nextedition


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## Truck3capt (Aug 6, 2017)

cda said:


> Do you have a link to an example of the storage ??


Is this what he's installing?


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## cda (Aug 6, 2017)

Truck3capt said:


> Is this what he's installing?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Not sure the entire question needs clarification


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## tmurray (Aug 9, 2017)

cpo said:


> I've received a comment from a LA reviewer regarding mobile shelving.  The comment states we need to show compliance with the NFPA 13 area limitations for this hazard group and the comment states this area is 1500 SF for This is approximately 200 SF of 10' tall mobile shelving so Ordinary Hazard Group 2. I can not find anything in NFPA 13 that tells me what is required to define this area or even the 1500 SF number the plan checker is citing. What am I missing?  Are we required to have an actual wall?  Rated?  Or just no more than 1500 SF?



The 1500 sq ft is from the density design method (11.2.3). Basically, if you have an OH2 occupancy, even if it is only 200 sq ft, your sprinkler demand must be designed for 1500 sq ft at that density (0.20 gpm/ft^2). So your GPM demand is 300 +hose stream allowances. It sounds like they are just concerned about water demand...


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## DuaneW (Aug 10, 2017)

Well if they are worried about water damage they could look at a dry chemical or temperature system


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## hazmatpoobah (Aug 20, 2017)

It appears the plan review comment is only specifying that the sprinkler density in the area housing the storage unit be increased to NFPA13 OH Group 1. In your scenario, either a simple calculation or shop drawings with hydraulic calculations would need to be presented to the plan reviewer/engineer demonstrating that a discharge density of 0.15 GPM/Sq.Ft. can be delivered to protect the hazard. I'm also assuming "LA" means Louisiana because if it's LA = Los Angeles, that's a California question which means you need to check the local amendments.

Fun fact: I have a LA Fitness near my house and once a year I go in and ask them if LA means Louisiana Fitness and does that mean we get to eat gumbo, drink Abita beer and lift weights, and make out with our cousins. They still won't let me be a member.


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## cda (Aug 20, 2017)

hazmatpoobah said:


> It appears the plan review comment is only specifying that the sprinkler density in the area housing the storage unit be increased to NFPA13 OH Group 1. In your scenario, either a simple calculation or shop drawings with hydraulic calculations would need to be presented to the plan reviewer/engineer demonstrating that a discharge density of 0.15 GPM/Sq.Ft. can be delivered to protect the hazard. I'm also assuming "LA" means Louisiana because if it's LA = Los Angeles, that's a California question which means you need to check the local amendments.
> 
> Fun fact: I have a LA Fitness near my house and once a year I go in and ask them if LA means Louisiana Fitness and does that mean we get to eat gumbo, drink Abita beer and lift weights, and make out with our cousins. They still won't let me be a member.





Welcome back S.S.!!!

Been awhile


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## Paul Sweet (Aug 25, 2017)

I vaguely remember an article in an engineering magazine 10 or more years ago about a federal archives building with a whole lot of compact storage for valuable documents.  The fire protection engineer ran large scale tests of different strategies, and ended up using quick-response sprinklers and having the shelves open up to a few inches between them so more water could get to the documents, because it was easier to restore a water-damaged document than a burned document.  A side benefit of opening the shelves after hours was the increased air circulation reduced mold and other deterioration.


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## cda (Aug 25, 2017)

I think CPO gave up on us


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