# Re-roofing, do you require attic ventilation?



## MikeC (Mar 31, 2014)

The title pretty much says it all.

For those of you who require permits for re-roofing, do you require attic ventilation meet the standards in R806?

I recently found someone who does and it seems like a good idea for maximum life of the roofing material & future homeowner costs.


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## steveray (Mar 31, 2014)

If not plainly spelled out in the code, I am sure manuf. install instructions call for it....S that would be a way to get there..


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## ICE (Mar 31, 2014)

We do not.


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## fatboy (Mar 31, 2014)

We recomend it.......but when some of the roof framing is over 100 yrs old, it is hard to say with a straight face that it is needed.


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## conarb (Mar 31, 2014)

fatboy said:
			
		

> We recomend it.......but when some of the roof framing is over 100 yrs old, it is hard to say with a straight face that it is needed.


You do really need it, when the 100 year-old house was built it probably had cedar shingles or shakes on it, I can remember as a kid looking up in the attic in the summer and seeing a thousand points of light coming through, the attics breathed through all the gaps in the shingles, when the rains started the shingles would swell up sealing all the gaps.  When someone comes along and reroofs with asphalt shingles they seal up the natural ventilation so ventilation should be required, if they reroof with cedar shingles there is no need for ventilation.


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 31, 2014)

You can require it through

R102.7.1 Additions, alterations or repairs.

Additions , alterations or repairs to any structure shall conform to the requirements for a new structure without requiring the existing structure to comply with all of the requirements of this code, unless otherwise stated. Additions , alterations or repairs shall not cause an existing structure to become unsafe or adversely affect the performance of the building.

We typically see ridge vent installed with 95% of all re-roofs plus most older homes have gable vents

No we don't require the venting and we don't require re-roof permits for residential homes.


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## Glenn (Mar 31, 2014)

I believe it is a stretch to require it.  The construction proposed is a replacement of the roof covering.  Attic ventilation is a completely different animal that just happens to terminate through penetrations of the roof covering.  You can require new flashing at those penetrations if they are corroded.  If pushing attic ventilation on the shingle replacement job you would need to see if there is a vapor retarder on the ceiling and free airflow between the overframed areas.  Would you have them add additional soffit vents?  It is a stretch to say the least.

Yes...you "could" use the reference to the manufacturer's installation instructions for the shingles, I know, I know...  but where do you stop these falling dominoes?

Would you require current code provisions on the dryer exhaust duct, the cat IV furnace vent, or the crawlspace ventilation when someone replaces their siding (wall covering)?  These are systems that penetrate the siding...no different than the attic system that penetrates the roofing.

It's a good idea to address it, but the code doesn't always require good ideas (I think we can all agree on that).  This is a time for the owner to put on their big boy pants and make wise decisions for their home.  In the same way that's its a wise idea to replace your water pump when your doing your timing chain.

My jurisdiction follows this train of thought and does not require it.  If the conversation comes up, I certainly encourage it.


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## mjesse (Apr 1, 2014)

Glenn said:
			
		

> If pushing attic ventilation on the shingle replacement job you would need to see if there is a vapor retarder on the ceiling and free airflow between the overframed areas.  Would you have them add additional soffit vents?


Not something we require, because of this^


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## ICE (Apr 1, 2014)

Around here, the heat will kill a roof.  The manufactures make sufficient ventilation a condition of their warranty. Not that anybody pays any attention to that.

I do know of a few roofers that will sell up.


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## MikeC (Apr 1, 2014)

I have to agree with ICE on the heat killing asphalt shingles.  I have seen it.  Additionally, ice build up at the eaves of older houses is also partially due to inadequate attic ventilation. I am in Zone 6.  The NRCA states that while no verified information exists about attic ventilation in relation to surface temperatures of the asphalt shingles, "Based on research conducted to date, the strongest case for ventilating asphalt shingle roof assemblies with outside air exists for residences located in cold climates and where snow accumulations persist on roofs for extended periods of time. Under those sets of conditions, ventilation has been shown to be a valuable strategy for removing excess moisture from attics, thus preventing condensation that can damage roof sheathing and preventing ice dam formation."

The argument of "where does it stop" is simple.  Would you allow the installation of an exhaust fan over a tub without ensuring that it is GFCI protected and vented to the outside?  In many cases, attic ventilation is simple and reasonably cheap. A 900 sq. foot attic would only require 6 sq. feet of vents if roof and soffit vents aren't used.  The use of roof and soffit vents would reduce that to 3 sq. feet.  Does a type 1 gas appliance get installed without ensuring there is adequate combustion air and make-up air?  I believe that attic ventilation, when possible, is part of the roof system.

I had never even considered it prior to finding it on another municipality's website.  That is why I came here to find out if the concept was way out of the ordinary, which I am beginning to think that it is.


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## mark handler (Apr 1, 2014)

ICE said:
			
		

> Around here, the heat will kill a roof.


You bet'ya


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## ICE (Apr 1, 2014)

MikeC said:
			
		

> Does a type 1 gas appliance get installed without ensuring there is adequate combustion air


It's not unusual that a furnace is installed in an attic that has no ventilation. If I turn off tha light and see no daylight, I ask for a roof vent.


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## Glenn (Apr 1, 2014)

That looks like a pretty old roof, Mark H... they don't last forever...

Mike I understand the argument related to the shingle warranty/performance from lack of ventilation, and I don't doubt that it should be considered.  I just think that's a can of worms to open from the code administration standpoint.

If I start pointing about where they have to put ventilation without a full evaluation of the attic interior, I'm making myself a little more responsible for the performance of their home as a partially informed designer.  Slippery slope.  I'm also probably scaring off a lot of their neighbors from getting permits and inspections.  There's balance to be had to catch the big stuff.  We run about two to three weeks behind on roof inspections as is.

Good thread.  This is definitely subject that will probably have two camps.


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## jar546 (Apr 1, 2014)

For simple roof covering permits, we do not require that the attic ventilation be brought up to code.  We have enough of an issue getting them to stop using pre-fab flashing no more than 3" in height (just because they sell it does not mean it's legal).

Most roofing contractors address this issue the best way they know how, often with a ridge vent, even though it is useless without intake vents at the soffit, therefore, we look at the requirements for covering replacement only and no further.


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## Keystone (Apr 1, 2014)

In the three municipalities that have proper ordinances requiring re-roof permits, the paperwork states - "it is the installers responsibility to follow the manufactures installation instructions and recommendations". Ridge venting always in place during inspection.


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## jar546 (Apr 1, 2014)

Keystone said:
			
		

> In the three municipalities that have proper ordinances requiring re-roof permits, the paperwork states - "it is the installers responsibility to follow the manufactures installation instructions and recommendations". Ridge venting always in place during inspection.


I think this is where it gets a bit confusing.

In three manufacturers, for example, GAF, Certainteed and Owens Corning, no where does the installation instructions require code compliant ventilation as a requirement for installation.  The warranty can be another story, however.  I do not believe that we are the enforcers for warranties, just installation.  Yes, I have let homeowners know that warranties can be voided based on installation but no where does the installation instructions (which we do enforce) require ventilation.  I am sure, however that someone can find a manufacturer out there that does require it on some of their products.

How many of you follow the manufacturer's installation requirements of 5" step flashing?  The 2009 code requires 4" but many manufacturers require 5".  Are we selectively enforcing?


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## Keystone (Apr 2, 2014)

Confusion it is indeed. The municipalities desire to retain the inspection overruled our conversation of mii, code & warranty. The langauge was suggested by a solicitor and carried over to other municipalities. The thought process is that the installer should have a strong knowledge of his/her product being installed. Yeah I know what is next, if they have a strong knowledge than why require a permit. If we could recieve a straight answer, well we would be shocked.

Anyone climbing onto the roof to check installation? We use binoculars, insurance... A bit odd to require roof permit and inspect from the ground.

How about smoke detectors due to an issued permit, requiring and checking for this? We do.


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## fatboy (Apr 2, 2014)

We do both, depending on the pitch of the roof.........


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## ICE (Apr 2, 2014)

I get a lot of great pictures while standing on a roof.  We require the detectors but don't do it right.  We allow battery operated detectors even if there is an accessible attic.


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## fatboy (Apr 2, 2014)

"How about smoke detectors due to an issued permit, requiring and checking for this? We do."

We have an amendment that excludes exterior permitted projects from the SD/CO detector requirements................


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## mark handler (Apr 2, 2014)

fatboy said:
			
		

> "how about smoke detectors due to an issued permit, requiring and checking for this? We do."we have an amendment that excludes exterior permitted projects from the sd/co detector requirements................


visual or owner certification


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