# integration of fire alarm system with security alarm system



## geokser (Jan 11, 2012)

Does the fire code in California permit integration of fire alarm system with security alarm system? or use of combination security and fire alarm.

gs


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## Builder Bob (Jan 11, 2012)

I know of a few (very) alarm panels that are listed that are for commercial use as a fire alarm and security panel.

If you do a search, you will see alot of different opinions about this issue and really will be an AHJ call ---


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## cda (Jan 11, 2012)

What are you actualy trying to do or looking at???

And I take it this is commercial setting??

The answer can be yes and no

Radionics panels use to carry both listings


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## cda (Jan 11, 2012)

geokser

where are our manners, oh yea we do not have any!!

welcome to the forum/ party

how did you find us??????????????


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## Coug Dad (Jan 11, 2012)

Welcome.  My opinion that mixing a fire alarm with any other system (BMS, Security) is a bad idea.  There are always problems down the road as one of the systems ages and needs to be replaced.


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## FM William Burns (Jan 11, 2012)

We only permit a combination system where as permitted in NFPA 72 and the system is partitioned for separate alarm, supervisory and control functions.  The fire system *SHALL* comply with all provisions of 72 for power supply etc..................


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## crothemi (Jan 13, 2012)

IMO I would suggest keeping the systems seperate.

Both systems have features that are unique to themselves and you tend to lose those advanced features in a combination systems.

I have been an system installer / tech for 15 years and have seen both and have always had happier customers with seperate systems.


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## cda (Jan 13, 2012)

He has not said what he is trying to do

1. Use one panel to run the whole building?

2. Use the fire alarm to release the mag locks on the high security bathroom??

3. Some other security thing that involves the fire alarm system working WITH the security system???


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## geokser (Mar 21, 2012)

apology



			
				cda said:
			
		

> He has not said what he is trying to do1. Use one panel to run the whole building?
> 
> 2. Use the fire alarm to release the mag locks on the high security bathroom??
> 
> 3. Some other security thing that involves the fire alarm system working WITH the security system???


My apology. Have not been able to log into the net due to some glitches and was caught up with other matters.

Yes, it is in a commercial setting.

My concern is - without integration, would the fire alarm be drowned out by burglary alarm or would a burgler raises the fire alarm when he accidentally triggered off the burglary alarm to confuse the owner? There are many combination system available in the market but was told by builder that the combination system is prohibited in California but could not locate the specific clause that stipulates this requirement.

I do note some cities are clearly requiring this separation in residential single family homes but silent on multiple family homes.

Any help to point the way would be appreciated.


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## Big Mac (Mar 21, 2012)

The fire alarm should always tak presidence.  The alarms should be substantially different enough that one is not confused with the other.


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## cda (Mar 21, 2012)

Not in the burgling business, but I see most burglar alarms on commercial as silent alarms that report to a monitoring company, and maybe have one horn and flashing light.

Not to much can drown out a fire alarm system

in most nfpa 72 fire alarm systems the panel has to be listed for commercial fire alarm, yes there are panels out there the carry both fire and burglar, just have not seen one in many moons

3.3.92* Fire Alarm Control Unit. (FACU)   A component of the fire alarm system, provided with primary and secondary power sources, which receives signals from initiating devices or other fire alarm control units, and processes these signals to determine part or all of the required fire alarm system output function(s). (SIG-PRO)

A.3.3.92 Fire Alarm Control Unit. (FACU) In addition to the functions identified in the definition, a fire alarm control unit might have an integral operator interface, supply power to detection devices, notification appliances, transponder(s), or off-premises transmitter(s) or any combination of these. The control unit might also provide transfer of condition to relay or devices connected to the control unit. There can be multiple fire alarm control units in a fire alarm system.

3.2.5* Listed.   Equipment, materials, or services included in a list published by an organization that is acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction and concerned with evaluation of products or services, that maintains periodic inspection of production of listed equipment or materials or periodic evaluation of services, and whose listing states that either the equipment, material, or service meets appropriate designated standards or has been tested and found suitable for a specified purpose.

10.3 Equipment.

10.3.1    Equipment constructed and installed in conformity with this Code shall be listed for the purpose for which it is used.

10.3.2    System components shall be installed, tested, and maintained in accordance with the manufacturer’s published instructions and this Code.

10.3.3*   All devices and appliances that receive their power from the initiating device circuit or signaling line circuit of a control unit shall be listed for use with the control unit.

sorry as to your original question yes there are fire and burglar listed panels out ther, will calif. allow them, do not know, and may be by city


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## cda (Mar 22, 2012)

for a fire alarm panel it should carry a UL 864 lisiting just for the "fire" I do not know what the listing is for burglar  possibly UL 681

http://ulstandardsinfonet.ul.com/scopes/scopes.asp?fn=0864.html

for example:::

Compliances;

NFPA 72, UL Commercial Fire, UL864 9th Ed., SIA CP01, UL985. UL household & commercial burg.: UL1610, UL609, UL365, UL1023. NYC FD; CSFM (fire).

http://www.napcosecurity.com/napcspecs.htm


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## peach (Mar 24, 2012)

mag locks are the problem... they need to release on fire alarm.... for fire department ingress, not egress from the suite.


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## cda (Mar 24, 2012)

Peach

I read the question can they use one panel for both fire and security


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## jame (Jul 28, 2012)

HI,According to my personal view the security cameras ,security alarms and other anti theft alarms have the become the necessity of the day,because we are living in such country where the materialistic things are more valuable than an person's life.so I think every body should install such cameras and alarms for saving our lives and property.


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## jame (Jul 28, 2012)

HI,According to my personal view the security cameras ,security alarms and other anti theft alarms have the become the necessity of the day,because we are living in such country where the materialistic things are more valuable than an person's life.so I think every body should install such cameras and alarms for saving our lives and property.

home alarm Brisbane


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