# ICC ANSI A117.1 -2017 edition



## Builder Bob

It appears that the State of South Carolina has formally moved into the new age of accessibility -- significant changes are larger turning radius 67", larger bathroom stalls, longer door approaches for forward approach. larger wheel chair spaces, significant civil site issues for accessibility, larger t turn radius, etc. It is initiated  by the SC accessibility law without any requirements for public notice or adoption. Therefore no notice was given to the public or regulated by LLR - contractors,architects, engineers, etc.

8-700 Regulations 
(A) With the exception of one and two family detached dwellings and other residential buildings to be offered for sale as individual dwelling units, every building or structure shall have all levels and areas made accessible to disabled persons in accordance with the latest edition of the International Code Council/American National Standards Institute, Inc. (ICC/ANSI) document A117.1, and the requirements of this section.


----------



## steveray

Retroactive and mandatory?


----------



## mark handler

steveray said:


> Retroactive and mandatory?


Nothing in the sections, say "retroactive"...
But does say "....agency is* required* to adopt the latest edition..." so is "*mandatory"...*
http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t10c005.php


----------



## steveray

"every building or structure shall have all levels and areas made accessible"...Without knowing the scoping of the regulation, that says all and mandatory to me...


----------



## Pcinspector1

What's the estimate cost per square foot for commercial space gone up too in S. Carolina?

The 67" radius was brought up at the Kansas City code hearings has been voted on? Approved?

Mark?


----------



## mark handler

Pcinspector1 said:


> What's the estimate cost per square foot for commercial space gone up too in S. Carolina?
> The 67" radius was brought up at the Kansas City code hearings has been voted on? Approved?
> Mark?


No idea....


----------



## steveray

The ugly part of this will be the existing building upgrades when you CO something and then a year later you have to spend the 20% because nothing complies anymore...


----------



## Rick18071

Builder Bob said:


> 8-700 Regulations
> (A) With the exception of one and two family detached dwellings and other residential buildings to be *offered for sale as individual dwelling units*, every building or structure shall have all levels and areas made accessible to disabled persons in accordance with the latest edition of the International Code Council/American National Standards Institute, Inc. (ICC/ANSI) document A117.1, and the requirements of this section.



Interesting, condos don't need accessibility even though they are R-2?


----------



## HForester

FYI: The 2018 I-Codes are not referencing the 2017 edition of ICC A117.1. Only the 2009 edition.  Therefore, SC will be forging new ground with their use of the 2017 edition.


----------



## jpranch

HForester is correct. The 2018 codes reference the 2009 edition because the A117.1 was not completed in time. We are looking at it now and we are not sure if we will adopt the 2017 or not? I have not looked at Title 3 of ADA for quite a long time. Does anybody know if the current version of ADA has made similar changes?


----------



## fatboy

Well.......... hello JP!


----------



## jpranch

Oh I'm still around lurking in the background. Started working on our adoption ordinance for the 2018 codes. Looks like the state will adopt around the 1st or 2nd week in April. We are shooting for the 1st of July. The 2017 NEC goes into effect here in Gillette on January 1. Merry Christmas fatboy!


----------



## mark handler

jpranch said:


> HForester is correct. The 2018 codes reference the 2009 edition because the A117.1 was not completed in time. We are looking at it now and we are not sure if we will adopt the 2017 or not? I have not looked at Title 3 of ADA for quite a long time. Does anybody know if the current version of ADA has made similar changes?


The current ADA, 2010 Standard, refers to the *ICC/ANSI A117.1-2003*


----------



## Builder Bob

The ADA has not upgraded to keep tempo with the 2017 ICC ANSI..... 

SteveRay - the 2017 ICC ANSI is a strange animal.... It has provisions for new construction (larger areas required ) and for existing buildings which reflect current requirements. 

The twist comes with bathroom renovations in an existing building where the entire restroom is demolished for construction - do you have the meet the 67" turning radius or can you reconstruct to the 60 Inch turning radius.

The twist is for new areas in existing structures.

Also for added flavor, the accessibility law in SC does not allow for the exceptions for accessibility as allowed in Chapter 11 of the building code..... thus employee work areas are required to be accessible...this is the interpretation from a state agency that oversees public school construction.


----------



## steveray

I would say you have to meet the 67"...Not only that, but 3411.7 or 507.2 ( IEBC maybe) would require you to upgrade (20%) your existing 60" bathrooms the next time you remodel...


----------



## Yikes

http://www.iccsafe.org/wp-content/uploads/asc_a117/C03.doc

"In examining what design features were driving the space to be so large it became apparent that lack of differential steering in scooters and some power chairs was a major factor.  Differential steering, as found in manual wheelchairs and center wheel power wheelchairs, is the ability to drive one drive wheel forward while the other goes backward.  Where both wheels are driven by a common motor or direct drive transmission both wheels must go in the same direction, hence the turning radia are much larger. 
...This observation raises the question – *should the built environment be changed to accommodate poorly designed wmds *[wheelchair mobility devices]* or ought those choosing poorly designed wmds be informed that their vehicle may not be well accommodated?*  The analogy is the parking lot at the grocery store.  If you choose to drive a stretch limo, RV, bus, or other vehicle that is bigger than a typical parking space you are welcome to shop, but don't expect a parking space near the entry.  _Ultimately this is a political and not a technical question._
...The Committee recognized that increasing the base dimensions of the circular turning space and the clear floor space have space and therefore cost implications throughout a building design and the design of site features,  Specifically mentioned during the debate were dwelling units, kitchens and single occupant toilet/bathrooms."


----------



## Builder Bob

Yikes.... My thoughts exactly....


----------



## ADAguy

Thank you Yikes, another dollar driven decision. Products change overtime just as the size of people due and with them the need for larger dimensions.
It won't be long before 8' ceiling heights and 6'-8 doors are raised to 9' and 7' (smiling).


----------



## linnrg

mark handler said:


> The current ADA, 2010 Standard, refers to the *ICC/ANSI A117.1-2003*



So the above quote might be an argument coming from the source that is more legally binding?  Mark where is this noted in the 2010 ADA (Page or area) I have not seen that?
Secondly, if as others have stated that the versions of the IBC are actually referencing the A117.1 2009 edition and no longer applying the 2003 (as Mark said above) then all remodeled restrooms must now include Diaper Changing Tables per 603.5 (a 2009 change) - is that what others are interpreting too?

Coming back from lunch today there was a person in one of the larger powered wheel chair and I thought to myself that the style of the chair and the way she was tilted back that it would take up maximum turning space.  The chair had 3 wheels per side with the larger powered wheels in the middle.  Our streets and sidewalks  are ice covered and very rough right now due to some snow then rain - but that chair was performing well.


----------



## mark handler

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/2010ADAStandards/Guidance2010ADAstandards.htm
In the guidance document


----------



## mtlogcabin

ICC/ANSI A117.1 2009 603.5 does not require diaper changing stations. However if installed they have to meet certain requirements


----------



## my250r11

linnrg said:


> (Page or area) I have not seen that?



Page 612 in 2015 IBC, Chapter 35 Referenced Standards,


ICC International Code Council, Inc.
500 New Jersey Ave, NW
6th Floor
Washington, DC 20001
Standard Referenced
reference in code
number Title section number
ICC A117.1—09 Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .202, 907.5.2.3.3, 1009.8.2, 1009.9,
1009.11, 1010.1.9.7, 1012.1, 1012.6.5,
1012.10, 1013.4, 1023.9, 1101.2, 1111.2,
1111.3, 1111.4, 1111.4.2


----------

