# use group B (university)



## 19firekiller75 (Mar 14, 2012)

Business (university) Classes, Offices, & Theater within building

300,000+ sq. ft  -  6 floors

Partially sprinklered (a 1/4 of 4th floor is sprinklered and 1/4 of 5th floor)

Existing horns for notification/Existing Pulls

Minimum Smokes (only elevators recall and door holders)

I’ve looked this up and don’t believe what I’m finding or rather not finding. Maybe I’m reading code wrong or just reading the wrong stuff.  After my research, it seems that smokes are only an option and not required for this huge freakin building with specs above, or am I missing something.

So my question is do I have to go full smoke detection because there’s no sprinklers and no existing smokes, and if so can I skip the areas on 4th & 5th floors with sprinklers.

Thanks for any help in advance.


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## Coug Dad (Mar 14, 2012)

Welcome to the board.  Is this new or existing?  What codes?


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## 19firekiller75 (Mar 14, 2012)

thanks. existing building 1931.  NFPA 72 2010, ohio bldg code 2011


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## Coug Dad (Mar 14, 2012)

If it was new construction, it would probably require automatic sprinkler protection throughout.  As an existing building, it depends upon what your adopted codes require.  NFPA 72 is a "how done" code and not a "when required" code.  If your "when required" code (OBBC) does not require detection, then the "how done" code (NFPA 72) does not apply.


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## mark handler (Mar 14, 2012)

19firekiller75 said:
			
		

> Business (university) Classes, Offices, & Theater within building300,000+ sq. ft  -  6 floors
> 
> Partially sprinklered (a 1/4 of 4th floor is sprinklered and 1/4 of 5th floor)
> 
> ...


Theater within building?

How big?

You may have mixed use building B/A


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## cda (Mar 14, 2012)

welcome also

So are you just looking at the building and questioning why?

Or is there some remodeling going on??


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## 19firekiller75 (Mar 14, 2012)

thanks coug dad.

m handler the theater is within the building and it is 9000 sq. ft.

cda, there is no remodeling, but the fire alarm system is getting upgraded from horns to speakers and mass notification is being added.


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## 19firekiller75 (Mar 14, 2012)

i've read the obbc before i posted, maybe i'm not understanding.  My conclusion is smokes are not required.  This is the only thing that i've found in the code under fire alarm systems for use group B.

907.2.2

A manual fire alarm system shall be installed in Group B occupancies having an occupant load of 500 or more persons or more than 100 persons above or below the lowest level of exit discharge.

*Exception*: Manual fire alarm boxes are not required where the building is equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system and the alarm notification appliances will activate upon sprinkler water flow.


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## mark handler (Mar 14, 2012)

19firekiller75 said:
			
		

> thanks coug dad.m handler the theater is within the building and it is 9000 sq. ft.
> 
> cda, there is no remodeling, but the fire alarm system is getting upgraded from horns to speakers and mass notification is being added.


9000 sq. ft. You have more than 50 people therefore the building is a mixed occupancy building.

Theater is an A not B.

How many seats are in the theater?

[F] 907.2.1 Group A. A manual fire alarm system that activates the occupant notification system in accordance with Section 907.5 shall be installed in Group A occupancies having an occupant load of 300 or more.


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## cda (Mar 14, 2012)

You can always ask for smoke detection through out, because the entire building does not have a fire sprinkler system, or get them to budget in a fire sprinkler system!!!! in the future

does not hurt to ask, because you never know they may say YES


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## Big Mac (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree, the theater sounds like an Assembly occupancy.

Theater of 9,000 square feet - you could easily have an occupant load in excess of 1,000.  if so,don't forget the voice evacuation requirements.


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## 19firekiller75 (Mar 14, 2012)

thanx for assistance everyone. No smokes unless owner wants it, maybe i'll ask the owner to talk to his insurance person about it.  Also the theater is use group A-1, so I'll follow the A-1 code for that space.  There are about 500 seats by the way mark handler.


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## cda (Mar 14, 2012)

19fire

Do you mind saying what you do for a living??


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## permitguy (Mar 14, 2012)

Has Ohio adopted any of the IFC's existing building provisions?  Several of them would apply to the structure you describe (not alarms, though).  See Ch. 46 of the '09 IFC for more information.


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## 19firekiller75 (Mar 14, 2012)

cda - i'm an elec designer

permitguy - ohio only recognizes the OBC.


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## 19firekiller75 (Mar 14, 2012)

since i'm new here just wanted to know how you become a sawhorse.  i see that several of you have that under your username and i keep seeing this yellow box harassing me about it.  but i did what they said and donated but i'm still just a member.


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## Codegeek (Mar 14, 2012)

The Ohio Fire Code is modeled after the IFC, but their most recent edition does not include Chapter 46 of the IFC.


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## Codegeek (Mar 14, 2012)

19firekiller75 said:
			
		

> since i'm new here just wanted to know how you become a sawhorse.  i see that several of you have that under your username and i keep seeing this yellow box harassing me about it.  but i did what they said and donated but i'm still just a member.


You may want to PM Jeff (jar546) to see if he's had a chance to update your member status.  He may not have had a chance to do so yet.


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