# Determining the Cost of a Project



## Mule (Dec 7, 2009)

We have a Walmart that is going to be built within our AHJ. We usually get the cost of construction from the general contractor and if the cost is close to what the BVD (Building Valuation Data chart) that ICC puts out, we go with that cost.

However the contractors says his cost is $7.7 million. I'm thinking......this seems way to low for one of their super centers. So I give the contractor a call and ask "is this including everything." He says "Everything that we supply!" Umm what do you mean. He says Walmart buys all the concrete blocks, electrical componants and things like that! Ohhhhh.

So I go to the BVD chart, plug in the amount per square foot and get $20.9 million. Just a bit of difference! This makes the $17,000 permit fee go up to $78,000.

I am posting this just in case you have a big box come into your area, there may be more to it than you think!


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## Alias (Dec 7, 2009)

Re: Determining the Cost of a Project

Thanks for the heads up Mule.

I don't think we'll be getting a WallyWorld anytime soon but it looks like we're getting a new addition to an Indian Health clinic.

Sue


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## jar546 (Dec 7, 2009)

Re: Determining the Cost of a Project

I am suppose to have one of those supercenters coming here too but a small but loud group of residents are fighting it.  It has been held up for over a year and Walmart has not backed down yet.  I would not want to tell you what the permit fee would be in our town.  They are telling us this will be $11-$13 million when it goes.

What building construction type are they claiming down there in Tx?


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## Uncle Bob (Dec 7, 2009)

Re: Determining the Cost of a Project

You might call some of the Building officials in surrounding citys that already have the same size WalMart building; and ask how much they  allowed and what they charged.

If you can't do that; in Texas you can always drop by some of the cities with an "Open Records Request" and find out what they accepted and what was paid.

WalMart is moving in on small towns now.  They had a small Walmart in Sulphur, Oklahoma - population 4794; and they closed it and built a new Super Walmart.  Them and the other big box stores are going to wipe out all other business' in the U. S..

Uncle Bob


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## Mac (Dec 8, 2009)

Re: Determining the Cost of a Project

My permit application requirements, spelled out in the local law, include a bid award or acceptance letter with a real total cost of  construction.

Or I can use a per square foot multiplier that kind of favors the village.

So I usually get the letter.


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## FM William Burns (Dec 8, 2009)

Re: Determining the Cost of a Project

Back in 2000 we had the first one in our state come in.  The permit fee was $37, 624 for their stated 7.5 million.  We also had a Distribution Center come in at 2.6 million s.f. and their fee was higher.

You'll love working with Bentonville  :lol: and watch closly their travel distances and fire protection schemes since they can't meet the TD and can get pretty creative.


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## Mule (Dec 8, 2009)

Re: Determining the Cost of a Project



			
				jar546 said:
			
		

> What building construction type are they claiming down there in Tx?


That's the Type V, I posted on early in the life of this BB. I used the Building Valuation Data chart with ICC and figured I classified it as a Type IIB and Mercantile.

We have an ordinance that we can use the BVD and use the higher amount, just for these type of situations and when we know that the contractor isn't quite telling us the whole truth about the cost!


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 8, 2009)

Re: Determining the Cost of a Project

Mule

If the Arch classified it as a Type V and it is code compliant why would you reclassify it to a Type II  :?: Seems contrary to 602.1.1

602.1.1 Minimum requirements.

A building or portion thereof shall not be required to conform to the details of a type of construction higher than that type, which meets the minimum requirements based on occupancy even though certain features of such a building actually conform to a higher type of construction.

Watch the mechanical permit valuation because they do the same thing Wal-mart purchases all the HVAC equipment and the contractors price will be mostly for labor. We use the Architects estimates and compare them to the contractors price.


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## jj1289 (Dec 8, 2009)

Re: Determining the Cost of a Project

This is a common practice for most national chains.  They usually provide equipment and supplies and have the local contractors perform the work.

Some companies are fair in what they state.  Home Depot gave us the construction value for a new store that looked very reasonable.  During the course of construction we notified the project manager not to start any mechanical work, since we did not have an application for that work yet.  Well guess what, they started the work and in that jurisdiction, performing work without a permit the fee is doubled.  The mechanical contractor complained that his contract was $x and home depot supplied all of the equipment.  Our response HD gave us the construction value that was used to calculate the permit fee.

Lets say he was not a happy camper.


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## fatboy (Dec 8, 2009)

Re: Determining the Cost of a Project

I have it in ordinance that the valuation shall be the higher of either the BVD table or reported cost. When they squack about the BVD value, we tell them that's what we will use for permitting, but if they want to sit down for an audit after the project is complete, they are more than welcome to do so. Haven't had a taker on the audit yet.   

You really have to watch all of them, had a three-story, VB construction, that was initially reported at around $53.00/SF.............right, sheesh.  :roll:


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## Mule (Dec 8, 2009)

Re: Determining the Cost of a Project



			
				mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> MuleIf the Arch classified it as a Type V and it is code compliant why would you reclassify it to a Type II  :?: Seems contrary to 602.1.1
> 
> 602.1.1 Minimum requirements.
> 
> ...


I'm not requiring them to construct the building to a higher classification. The building, as submitted, is being constructed as a Type IIB which meets that classification by the way it is being constructed.

I only used this classification to establish an estimation of construction cost because of the way Walmart does it's construction costs, and your comment about the HVAC fits right in with the scheme of things to come. If they want to appeal the cost of the permit I will use;

Section 108.3Building permit valuations. The applicant for a permit

shall provide an estimated permit value at time of application.

Permit valuations shall include total value of work, including

materials and labor, for which the permit is being issued, such

as electrical, gas, mechanical, plumbing equipment and permanent

systems. If, in the opinion of the building official, the valuation

is underestimated on the application, the permit shall be

denied, unless the applicant can show detailed estimates to

meet the approval of the building official. Final building permit

valuation shall be set by the building official.

Also thanks for the tip on the HVAC. I bet the plumbing and electrical will be that way also.


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 8, 2009)

Re: Determining the Cost of a Project



> I only used this classification to establish an estimation of construction cost because of the way Walmart does it's construction costs


That makes sense.


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## Mule (Dec 9, 2009)

Re: Determining the Cost of a Project

I found this very interesting. I received an email from the Wal-Mart Senior Construction Manager.

This makes just a little bit of difference in the permit fees!

Garden Center 16,645

Electrical Dist Center 257,840

Automatic Doors 7,134

Make Up Air 116,597

Novar Equipment 57,610

FRP 117,496

Alarm Locks 16,400

Novar Installation 55,085

HVAC Units 509,033

Structural Steel 160,410

Joist/Deck Cost 383,148

Floor Tile 29,103

Interior Lighting 175,520

Refrigeration Equipment 576,649

Fixtures 1,640,000

Total =$4,118,671


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## TJacobs (Dec 9, 2009)

Re: Determining the Cost of a Project

We would use only the BVD that is in our fee schedule.  Type of construction would be as determined by what is declared on the plans (as verified during plan review), not whatever they want it to be to reduce the permit fee.


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