# Detectable warning needed?



## Yikes (Jan 13, 2011)

Scenario: an existing (California) warehouse converted to an office.

Planning code requires no parking, but an accessible van stall is being provided anyway.

Site area for this parking is so limited that the 8'x18' blue-striped "no parking" access aisle of this accessible stall is right up against the (inswinging) entry door to the building.  In other words, this paved area is doing double-duty as the 5'x5' door landing and the 8'x18' access aisle.  This same space is also adjacent to the public sidewalk.

So, when I step out of the office and into the access aisle, do I need a tactile warning strip on the pavement to let me know I'm entering a vehicle area?  If so, do I glue it down within the blue striped access aisle, or do I put a ring of it outside the aisle (at which point I'm already in a drive aisle)?

Or, is it possible that the front door itself is the "detectable warning", i.e., everyone knows that once you step out the door, you are in a vehicle area?


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## beach (Jan 13, 2011)

I think I'd put it in the blue striped access aisle....... Assuming no curb, it has a wheel stop, etc? I wouldn't assume everyone knows that once you step out a door, you're in a vehicle area because that's not always the case


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## mark handler (Jan 13, 2011)

Doing double-duty does not meet the CBC. There can be no obstructions in the loading zone, a door/door swing is an obstuction.

In CA,  anytime thereis no seperation between the pedestrian area and the vehicle area you must provide detectable warnings.

The "loading zone" is not concidered a vehicle area so the detectable warnings in this case should be in the vehicle aisle side. Where you need to print the "no parking".

Remember this is for the blind.


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## Yikes (Jan 13, 2011)

Mark, I mentioned that it is an in-swinging entry door, into the building.  Therefore, it does _not_ swing outside over the blue striped area, and therefore it is not an obstruction.  The only double-duty is the exterior (push-side) 5'x5' level and clear, max. 2% slope also happens to be the same space as the 8'x18' van access aisle.

As a practical consideration, if I put the detectable warning bumps where the "no parking" paint goes, wouldn't it get bumpy if this is the same area as the wheelchair is loading/unloaded into the van?


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## beach (Jan 13, 2011)

I don't see how an inswinging door could be an obstruction. From what I understand from the post, there is no pedestrian route between the the front of the parked vehicles and the building, assuming there is no curb, a detectable warning would be required at the building entrance/exit which happens to be the disabled loading/unloading area...... although unconventional, it appears that it would meet the intent of the code.


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## beach (Jan 13, 2011)

This is how I am picturing it:

View attachment 341


View attachment 341


/monthly_2011_01/572953bd13de7_HCparking.jpg.c0e83c41e0bf3d3c650c320c78468945.jpg


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## pwood (Jan 13, 2011)

with the domes where beach wants them it is not much of a level landing anymore! more like a landing with extreme acne or speed bumps.  i don't like that location.


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## beach (Jan 13, 2011)

But it IS level...... and regardless of where the HC parking is, a wheelchair or a visually impaired person would still have to roll or walk over them, because they are required to be in that location anyway.... in the picture, they just happen to be in the loading/unloading area. I.e, remove the HC parking and the truncated domes would still be required unless you raised the door and installed a raised landing and curb along with a ramp.

(they do rattle shopping carts though.....)


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## Yikes (Jan 13, 2011)

beach and pwood, you described the conditions exactly.

When I see persons in wheelchairs actually loading into a vehicle, they are often turning/rotating the chair... same for angling to open a door.

The turning / rotating can be hard to accomplish on truncated domes.

On the plus side, beach's sketch means that the truncated domes will be an awesome welcome mat!


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## Yankee (Jan 13, 2011)

And the vehicle lift is immediately across the path of the required egress (albeit already to the "public way")? . . . with in-swing, the OL can't be very high (or is it non-conforming?)


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## beach (Jan 13, 2011)

Without relocating the accessible parking, I don't see an alternative..... In regard to turning while loading, they typically load from the sliding door area or the back, I don't think the domes would be in the way, but if they were, the wheelchair loading ramp would cover the domes. You have a good point regarding angling to open the door, but with an inswing door, you wouldn't need to angle..... push straight in with the footrest. Even if you had to angle, it shouldn't be that bad.


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## Yikes (Jan 13, 2011)

beach, you are right!  Thanks.


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## mark handler (Jan 13, 2011)

You may want to give the DSA a call

Putting the DW outside the door maybe mistaken as a floor mat, BAD Design

Contact the Division of the State Architect

Aaron Noble, Sr. Architect, Division of the State Architect

aaron.noble@dgs.ca.gov


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## beach (Jan 13, 2011)

> Putting the DW outside the door maybe mistaken as a floor mat, BAD Design


A blind person mistaking it for a floor mat??? Calling DSA is probably a good idea if you don't feel comfortable


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## pwood (Jan 13, 2011)

Call a casp certified expert, that is what they are for!


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## mark handler (Jan 13, 2011)

pwood said:
			
		

> call a casp certified expert, that is what they are for!


now that's silly


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## pwood (Jan 14, 2011)

mark handler said:
			
		

> now that's silly


maniac,

    that's me being me:mrgreen:


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## Examiner (Jan 14, 2011)

Knowing that every AHJ has different requirements for Detectable Devices; the new 2010 ADA Standards has removed these items from curb ramps.  They are now under the Department of Transportation I was told which only requires them at Right of Way conditions.  They are still required at platform edges at rail stations.


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## mark handler (Jan 14, 2011)

examiner said:
			
		

> knowing that every ahj has different requirements for detectable devices; the new 2010 ada standards has removed these items from curb ramps.  They are now under the department of transportation i was told which only requires them at right of way conditions.  They are still required at platform edges at rail stations.


California requires them, in CA, the  AHJ cannot wave them. When they think they can we end up with lawsuits.  A AHJ "waving" the requirement is no legal defense


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