# rack storage



## zigmark (Apr 19, 2016)

46,000 SF II-B

F-/S-2 non-separated mixed use building frontage increases

non-sprinkled

2012 IBC/IFC

I have a proposal for rack storage within the space.  The proposal from an Architect states that the storage up to 12'-0" in the racks will be combustible however above that will be noncombustible to a height of 16'-0" so this would not be classified as high piled combustible storage.  I'm struggling I guess... maybe to much cold medicine?  ZIG  Help please.


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## Builder Bob (Apr 19, 2016)

The fire code only addresses combustible storage in high piled racking - however, even if the material being stored is non-combustible, it stills falls into a commodity classification for sprinkler systems due to packaging and the layers of cardboard/wrap around each product which then may be placed into another combustible container/wrap.

i.e alternators for cars would be in a box, stacked with other boxes to create a loaded pallet, which is then wrapped in a clear wrap to bundle the product for shipping.

Also, the letter from the architect is worthless, the owner/operator needs to sign the letter and it should be given tot he fire marshal office along with their insurance company -


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## cda (Apr 19, 2016)

Non com can be high piled per ifc

12 feet of tires is also high piled

Does not need to be on racks for high piled

Suggest get complete plan of what is going on:::

Construction documents.

At the time of building permit application for new structures designed to accommodate high-piled storage or for requesting a change of occupancy/use, and at the time of application for a storage permit, plans and specifications shall be submitted for review and approval. In addition to the information required by the International Building Code, the storage permit submittal shall include the information specified in this section. Following approval of the plans, a copy of the approved plans shall be maintained on the premises in an approved location. The plans shall include the following:

1. Floor plan of the building showing locations and dimensions of high-piled storage areas.

2. Usable storage height for each storage area.

3. Number of tiers within each rack, if applicable.

4. Commodity clearance between top of storage and the sprinkler deflector for each storage arrangement.

5. Aisle dimensions between each storage array.

6. Maximum pile volume for each storage array.

7. Location and classification of commodities in accordance with Section 3203.

8. Location of commodities which are banded or encapsulated.

9. Location of required fire department access doors.

10. Type of fire suppression and fire detection systems.

11. Location of valves controlling the water supply of ceiling and in-rack sprinklers.

12. Type, location and specifications of smoke removal and curtain board systems.

13. Dimension and location of transverse and longitudinal flue spaces.

14. Additional information regarding required design features, commodities, storage arrangement and fire protection features within the high-piled storage area shall be provided at the time of permit, when required by the fire code official.


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## cda (Apr 19, 2016)

Require a technical review from someone you approve, to include any fire protection needed


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## cda (Apr 19, 2016)

How much of the Sq ft is S-2


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## cda (Apr 19, 2016)

You know you have a S-1 and not S-2!!!!!!!


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## FM William Burns (Apr 19, 2016)

Ah yes, remember we are not the only AHJ's insurance companies carry a financial whip that goes beyond minimum standards................ my professional opinion (that also counts) is if they build a racking system over 12' in height that houses combustible commodities, plastic bin boxes, encapsulated etc. sprinkling is on the horizon until the owner and designer modify the array to lower limits.


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## Insurance Engineer (Apr 20, 2016)

Unless that noncombustible stuff is stored on a steel pallet, with no box of any kind, I would agree not a problem.BUT in my 36 years of being an insurance rep, I can count on one hand  when this has occurred. Back in the day when car bumper was made of all metal. Proceed with caution, they are playing games with ya.


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## zigmark (Apr 20, 2016)

Thank you all for the responses.  I do not disagree with anything brought up here.  In our pre-application meeting the issue was addressed and the applicant at the time decided they were going to use all metal pallets in the racks.  Their architect has since decided to attempt the current approach.  IBC Section 311.3 allows non-combustibles to be stored on wood pallets in S-2.  What I am unclear about is the rack storage with the wood pallets and how this does or does not affect this designation.

ZIG


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## zigmark (Apr 20, 2016)

The S-2 space is approximately 30,000 SF in area.

ZIG


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## cda (Apr 20, 2016)

It is a S-1!!!!

I would not approve it as S-2


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## zigmark (Apr 20, 2016)

The products being stored are large steel foundry castings on wood pallets, no boxes or other packaging other than metal banding to keep in place on the pallets.

ZIG


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## cda (Apr 20, 2016)

Buildings in which noncombustible materials are stored are classified as Group S-2, low-hazard storage occupancies (see Figure 311.3). It is acceptable for stored noncombustible products to be packaged in combustible materials as long as the quantity of packaging is kept to an insignificant level.

Not sure how someone defines ""insignificant level"""???

S-1!


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## cda (Apr 20, 2016)

Not sure what S-2 gets them over S-1??

Except seperation requirement ???  Is that why they want S-2???


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## Insurance Engineer (Apr 20, 2016)

NFPA 13 would classify this, metal on a wood pallet a class 1 commodity. The design area is 2000 sq. ft since storage is 16' vs 1500 sq. ft if storage is a max of 12'. Is that 16' to the top of the rack upright OR to top of storage, it makes a difference in the density, or what ever design they use. Details details.....


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## cda (Apr 20, 2016)

> NFPA 13 would classify this' date=' metal on a wood pallet a class 1 commodity. The design area is 2000 sq. ft since storage is 16' vs 1500 sq. ft if storage is a max of 12'. Is that 16' to the top of the rack upright OR to top of storage, it makes a difference in the density, or what ever design they use. Details details.....[/quote']Sounds like a building design issue more than sprinkler


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## Insurance Engineer (Apr 20, 2016)

About 50% of the warehouses I reviewed  the sprinkler protection was not adequate, some building were new and just received the CO. NOT adequate, so they go together, sprinkler design and building code. Can not tell you how many times I would hear, AHJ, signed off on the project said everything was OK. That is why I spent 30 years training AHJ's so they know what the heck they are doing when it comes to sprinkler design.


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## cda (Apr 20, 2016)

> About 50% of the warehouses I reviewed  the sprinkler protection was not adequate' date=' some building were new and just received the CO. NOT adequate, so they go together, sprinkler design and building code. Can not tell you how many times I would hear, AHJ, signed off on the project said everything was OK. That is why I spent 30 years training AHJ's so they know what the heck they are doing when it comes to sprinkler design.[/quote']I totally agree with all your points!! The sprinkler system needs to be designed for the hazard.
> 
> Seen enough sprinkled buildings burn to the ground.
> 
> ...


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