# Flooring options for (covered) outdoor shower in California



## hardroadz (Jul 11, 2022)

I made the mistake of buying a bunch of Trex Composite flooring from Lowes for the outdoor shower I am building only to research and find it is not a viable option, because it cannot seal water tight.

I am looking into waterproof vynl flooring options that I could put on top of a subfloor in the shower.   I have been looking at Deco Hydrostop product in particular.  Does anyone know if the vynl option is viable for codes in CA?  I really want to avoid having to pour a concrete floor or laying tile.

Thanks, all~Robert


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## ICE (Jul 11, 2022)

This is your description of the shower from another thread:
_“Can I use 2x6" as my floor joists for the shower structure? (Note: Structure is 56" x 72" x 8' H”_

That sounds more like an addition than an outdoor shower.  Your questions about the shower floor lead me to believe that you need professional help.


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## hardroadz (Jul 11, 2022)

ICE said:


> This is your description of the shower from another thread:
> _“Can I use 2x6" as my floor joists for the shower structure? (Note: Structure is 56" x 72" x 8' H”_
> 
> That sounds more like an addition than an outdoor shower.  Your questions about the shower floor lead me to believe that you need professional help.


I have fixed up a house before in Nashville, TN   However, that was not going through codes.   I have the skills, just need to understand the codes.    They are not entirely clear or easy to find on the web for California.


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## hardroadz (Jul 11, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> I have fixed up a house before in Nashville, TN   However, that was not going through codes.   I have the skills, just need to understand the codes.    They are not entirely clear or easy to find on the web for California.


Also, this is an independent structure from the house, not an addition.


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## e hilton (Jul 12, 2022)

Why don’t you buy a fiberglass shower pan and do it right.


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## hardroadz (Jul 12, 2022)

e hilton said:


> Why don’t you buy a fiberglass shower pan and do it right.


56" by 72".    That's a lot of fiberglass.   So, I take it you are stating that vynl flooring will not pass CA codes?  

By the way, I am not interested in "right" and "wrong", just what will pass building codes and what will not...    Thank you, in advance for your insight.


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## north star (Jul 12, 2022)

*( = ) + ( = )*

*hardroadz,*

*From the 2019 California Residential Code:*
*R307.2 Bathtub and Shower Spaces*
Bathtub and shower floors and walls above bathtubs with installed shower heads
and in shower compartments shall be finished with a nonabsorbent surface.
Such wall surfaces shall extend to a height of not less than 6 feet (1829 mm)
above the floor.
*
Can you please provide a Link to the specifications of the Deco Hydrostop
product that you are considering ?*

*( = ) + ( = )*


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## hardroadz (Jul 12, 2022)

north star said:


> *( = ) + ( = )*
> 
> *hardroadz,*
> 
> ...


Thanks, North Star!

I am considering the following, the first link is from Deco products Hydrostop and the second is from SmartCore.   Both boast being 100% waterproof material that can be soaked in water for days and not expand or get damaged at all.



			https://www.lowes.com/pd/Deco-Products-Hydro-Stop-Miami-Waves-Floor-and-Wall-DIY-7-2-in-x-48-in-Rigid-Core-SPC-Click-Floating-Vinyl-Plank-24-00sq-ft-Case/1002621842?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-flr-_-ggl-_-PLA_FLR_229_Vinyl-Flooring-_-1002621842-_-online-_-0-_-0&ds_rl=1286981&gclid=CjwKCAjwt7SWBhAnEiwAx8ZLaivJukF1DXDy26dAipd_YIBN8CgVYrSATnKeisQE1R6aWH16gJVuexoCQ0MQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
		




			https://www.lowes.com/pd/SMARTCORE-Ultra-Ultra-Palmer-Street-Pine-5-91-in-x-48-03-in-Waterproof-Interlocking-Luxury-Vinyl-Plank-Flooring-15-76-sq-ft/5001940269
		



Again, thanks for posting that code snippet and for your info!~Robert


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## ICE (Jul 12, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> By the way, I am not interested in "right" and "wrong", just what will pass building codes and what will not


I've seen a lot of wrong that passed an inspection.  Oddly enough, that includes shower stalls.


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## hardroadz (Jul 12, 2022)

ICE said:


> I've seen a lot of wrong that passed an inspection.  Oddly enough, that includes shower stalls.




According to the code that North Star, the Code mentions a non-absorbant surface.    The Luxuray waterproof vinyl tiles boast being 100% waterproof and non-absorbant.   What am I missing?   Have you seen these new vinyl tiles, ICE?


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## hardroadz (Jul 12, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> According to the code that North Star, the Code mentions a non-absorbant surface.    The Luxuray waterproof vinyl tiles boast being 100% waterproof and non-absorbant.   What am I missing?   Have you seen these new vinyl tiles, ICE?


 Here is a quote:


100% Waterproof - won't swell, crack or peel when exposed to water


If I have to replace it in 3 years, I don't care.   It is still much more cost effective than paying thousands for tile, concrete, fiberglass, or acrylic.


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## bill1952 (Jul 12, 2022)

At camp its just stones or a slab or wood deck and drains to the ground. Not much different than washing your car on the lawn.  I'm serious, I'd like to understand why something that has been so simple is now so complicated. I'm sure this would be a non issue here, probably not require a permit.


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## e hilton (Jul 12, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> Thanks, North Star!
> 
> I am considering the following, the first link is from Deco products Hydrostop and the second is from SmartCore.   Both boast being 100% waterproof material that can be soaked in water for days and not expand or get damaged at all.


You’re missing a very key detail on those products.  IMHO … you are so fixated on doing it your way that you can’t see the forest for the trees.  Yes, those products are listed as waterproof … but they are talking about the tiles, the planks … they can get wet and not degrade.  What you're missing is ... the installed planks do NOT create a waterproof membrane … water is going to leak through the joints in the planks.  

But maybe that’s what you want.


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## hardroadz (Jul 12, 2022)

e hilton said:


> You’re missing a very key detail on those products.  IMHO … you are so fixated on doing it your way that you can’t see the forest for the trees.  Yes, those products are listed as waterproof … but they are talking about the tiles, the planks … they can get wet and not degrade.  What you're missing is ... the installed planks do NOT create a waterproof membrane … water is going to leak through the joints in the planks.
> 
> But maybe that’s what you want.


Are you basing this on experience or assumption?   Have you seen a walk-in shower with this flooring material?


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## ICE (Jul 12, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> Have you seen a walk-in shower with this flooring material?


Probably never will .... well of course you could be the first and provide pictures.

Before you pick out the floor finish material ....well then, here's the rest of the story.



408.7 Lining for Showers and Receptors. Shower receptors built on-site shall be watertight and shall be constructed from approved-type dense, nonabsorbent, and noncorrosive materials. Each such receptor shall be adequately reinforced, shall be provided with an approved flanged floor drain designed to make a watertight joint in the floor, and shall have smooth, impervious, and durable surfaces.

Shower receptors shall have the subfloor and rough side of walls to a height of not less than 3 inches (76 mm) above the top of the finished dam or threshold shall be first lined with sheet plastic, lead, or copper, or shall be lined with other durable and watertight materials. Showers that are provided with a built in place, permanent seat or seating area that is located within the shower enclosure, shall be first lined with sheet plastic, lead, copper, or shall be lined with other durable and watertight materials that extend not less than 3 inches (76 mm) above horizontal surfaces of the seat or the seating area.

Lining materials shall be pitched 1⁄4 inch per foot (20.8 mm/m) to weep holes in the subdrain of a smooth and solidly formed subbase. Such lining materials shall extend upward on the rough jambs of the shower opening to a point not less than 3 inches (76 mm) above the horizontal surfaces of the seat or the seating area, the top of the finished dam or threshold and shall extend outward over the top of the permanent seat, permanent seating area, or rough threshold and be turned over and fastened on the outside face of both the permanent seat, permanent seating area, or rough threshold and the jambs.

Nonmetallic shower subpans or linings shall be permitted to be built up on the job site of not less than three layers of standard grade 15 pound (6.8 kg) asphalt-impregnated roofing felt. The bottom layer shall be fitted to the formed subbase and each succeeding layer thoroughly hot-mopped to that below. Corners shall be carefully fitted and shall be made strong and watertight by folding or lapping, and each corner shall be reinforced with suitable webbing hot-mopped in place.

Folds, laps, and reinforcing webbing shall extend not less than 4 inches (102 mm) in all directions from the corner, and webbing shall be of approved type and mesh, producing a tensile strength of not less than 50 lb/ft2 (244 kg/m2) in either direction. Nonmetallic shower subpans or linings shall be permitted to consist of multilayers of other approved equivalent materials suitably reinforced and carefully fitted in place on the job site as elsewhere required in this section.

Linings shall be properly recessed and fastened to approved backing so as not to occupy the space required for the wall covering, and shall not be nailed or perforated at a point that is less than 1 inch (25.4 mm) above the finished dam or threshold. An approved-type subdrain shall be installed with a shower subpan or lining. Each such subdrain shall be of the type that sets flush with the subbase and shall be equipped with a clamping ring or other device to make a tight connection between the lining and the drain. The subdrain shall have weep holes into the waste line. The weep holes located in the subdrain clamping ring shall be protected from clogging.

Shower lining materials shall comply with approved standards acceptable to the Authority Having Jurisdiction. Lead and copper subpans or linings shall be insulated from conducting substances other than their connecting drain by 15 pound (6.8 kg) asphalt felt or its equivalent, and no lead pan or liner shall be constructed of material weighing less than 4 lb/ft2 (19 kg/m2). Copper pans or liners shall be not less than No. 24 B & S Gauge (0.02 inches) (0.51 mm). Joints in lead pans or liners shall be burned. Joints in copper pans or liners shall be soldered or brazed. Plastic pans shall not be coated with asphalt-based materials.

408.7.1 Tests for Shower Receptors. Shower receptors shall be tested for watertightness by filling with water to the level of the rough threshold. The test plug shall be so placed that both upper and under sides of the subpan shall be subjected to the test at the point where it is clamped to the drain.

And then there is this, and remeber that YouTube is your friend:









						Showers | Schluter
					

Tiled showers and bathtub surrounds add luxury and value to your home. Protect your investment with proper water management measures.




					www.schluter.com


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## e hilton (Jul 12, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> Are you basing this on experience or assumption?   Have you seen a walk-in shower with this flooring material?




I clicked the link you provided for the Lowes product, and read the very poorly worded marketing BS.  It reads like a bad translation from a third world country, but i didn’t let that color my opinion. 

It’s a click-lock product.  It doesn’t call for any glue or caulk in the joints.  What, pray tell, is going to seal the joints?   And all of the verbiage talks about the water resistance of the planks, nowhere does it talk about creating a watertight membrane.


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## north star (Jul 13, 2022)

*& = & = &*

*hardroadz ( Robert ),

Respectfully, while the planks themselves seem to be
waterproof, what is your idea of completely sealing
between them when installing [  to comply with the
Codes ] ?

Thanks !*

*& = & = &*


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## e hilton (Jul 13, 2022)

Thanks to admin for the edit.  It was tacky.


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## ICE (Jul 13, 2022)

e hilton said:


> Thanks to admin for the edit.  It was tacky.


You're welcome.


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## hardroadz (Jul 14, 2022)

north star said:


> *& = & = &*
> 
> *hardroadz ( Robert ),
> 
> ...


North Star:

I intend to lay planks over 3 layers of standard grade asphalt-impregnated roofing felt per code.    Then I will fill in any gaps between planks with plumbers caulk, wipe and let dry for 24hrs.   Then I will apply 2 layers of Vinyl Floor on to of the flooring.   This will make the floor look glossy, but I don't mind.   Again, if this configuration lasts me 2-3 years, this will be a victory.

My hope is that my slope of about .3 " per foot will make it so water heads to the drain and doesn't sit around long enough to fall between cracks between planks.   As you all know, even tile shower floors have this vulnerability, as water can seep through grout.

My goal is really to pass codes so I can get this thing built for my wife and boys.   However, I think with some care,  I can get this configuration to last for a long time.   The key will be to direct the roofing felt to the weep holes of the sub drain.


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## hardroadz (Jul 14, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> North Star:
> 
> I intend to lay planks over 3 layers of standard grade asphalt-impregnated roofing felt per code.    Then I will fill in any gaps between planks with plumbers caulk, wipe and let dry for 24hrs.   Then I will apply 2 layers of Vinyl Floor on to of the flooring.   This will make the floor look glossy, but I don't mind.   Again, if this configuration lasts me 2-3 years, this will be a victory.
> 
> ...


Assuming I have to hire a pro to built a hot mop pan, spending this $400 bucks is still cheaper than a tile acrylic or concrete job.


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## e hilton (Jul 14, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> North Star:
> 
> I intend to lay planks over 3 layers of standard grade asphalt-impregnated roofing felt per code.    Then I will fill in any gaps between planks with plumbers caulk, wipe and let dry for 24hrs.   Then I will apply 2 layers of Vinyl Floor on to of the flooring.


Rather than 3 layers of tar paper, why not one layer of peel & stick ice & water shield?   
Plumbers caulk … you mean plumbers putty?   Or caulk in a tube?   Can you give an example of a brand name.  
What is vinyl floor?


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## Pcinspector1 (Jul 14, 2022)

From the net!
Ipe (pronounced EE-pay) is the finest quality wood decking material available. From the Atlantic City Boardwalk, to Las Vegas' Treasure Island Resort, to your own backyard, nothing keeps its integrity or lasts as long as Advantage Ipe Decking™. Ipe is an exotic hardwood that is *naturally resistant to rot and decay*, is 8 times harder than California Redwood, and is guaranteed for 20 years without preservatives!  

Maybe a solution?


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## bill1952 (Jul 14, 2022)

Pcinspector1 said:


> From the net!
> Ipe (pronounced EE-pay) is the finest quality wood decking material available. From the Atlantic City Boardwalk, to Las Vegas' Treasure Island Resort, to your own backyard, nothing keeps its integrity or lasts as long as Advantage Ipe Decking™. Ipe is an exotic hardwood that is *naturally resistant to rot and decay*, is 8 times harder than California Redwood, and is guaranteed for 20 years without preservatives!
> 
> Maybe a solution?


No disagreement, but doesn't seem to solve the membrane requirement.


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## JPohling (Jul 14, 2022)

Of all the nutty proposed work that I have seen over the years this one takes the cake.  Let's take something ultimately simple and complicate it to the point of failure and increased costs while actively trying to do the opposite.................


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## e hilton (Jul 14, 2022)

Maybe he’s going to post it on his tiktok influencer page as a revolutionary new design.


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## hardroadz (Jul 14, 2022)

ok, how about this:

--plywood subfloor with pan sides built in.
--2-3 layers liquid membrane
--mortar and glazed ceramic matte tile on top


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## hardroadz (Jul 14, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> ok, how about this:
> 
> --plywood subfloor with pan sides built in.
> --2-3 layers liquid membrane
> --mortar and glazed ceramic matte tile on top


Also my slope is pre built into the joists.


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## hardroadz (Jul 14, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> Also my slope is pre built into the joists.


let me revise:

--Floor joists pre-sloped with .25" drop every foot to drain
--Plywood sublfoor with 3" or great side pan edges.
--.5" layer concrete backer board.
--2-3 layers liquid membrane.
--mortal and glazed ceramic tile.
--grout.


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## JPohling (Jul 14, 2022)

How about a prefab fiberglass pan with a nice ipe or teak wood slat infill. done


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## hardroadz (Jul 14, 2022)

JPohling said:


> How about a prefab fiberglass pan with a nice ipe or teak wood slat infill. done


I happen to love Ipe.  In fact built a deck of it at my old house in Nashville.  If we did not live in such a regulated state, I would probably build a shower out of ipe and let a fraction of the water slip through the planks.  No big deal..

But in CA, they are going to say water could get between the wood slats, and thus this would not pass codes, right? They want every drop of the gray water back.


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## JPohling (Jul 14, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> I happen to love Ipe.  In fact built a deck of it at my old house in Nashville.  If we did not live in such a regulated state, I would probably build a shower out of ipe and let a fraction of the water slip through the planks.  No big deal..
> 
> But in CA, they are going to say water could get between the wood slats, and thus this would not pass codes, right? They want every drop of the gray water back.


so what is the issue you have with a fiberglass pan below the wood slats shower floor?  The intent is for the water to pass thru to a shower receptor with drain using time tested materials and methods.


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## hardroadz (Jul 14, 2022)

JPohling said:


> so what is the issue you have with a fiberglass pan below the wood slats shower floor?  The intent is for the water to pass thru to a shower receptor with drain using time tested materials and methods.


a fiberglass pan 56" by 72" inch would cost a fortune.    What is wrong with glazed ceramic tile now??


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## e hilton (Jul 14, 2022)

Plywood floor, couple of coats of redguard, tile and thinset.  That will last a couple of years.  1/4” slope is almost too much in a shower, go for 1/8” it will still drain well.


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## ICE (Jul 14, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> If we did not live in such a regulated state


Good luck getting a permit from the city of Roseville for a detached shower.  The engineered plans will set you back $3,500.  Probably going to need a soils report.


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## Joe.B (Jul 14, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> They want every drop of the gray water back.


Is this a local ordinance possibly? Have you had conversations with your AHJ, that would be your building inspector or their boss, the building official. Most of the responses you're going to get here are based off of some model code that might not be specifically what is in effect in your jurisdiction. All of CA is required to follow Title 24, California Building Standards Code. Title 24, Part 5 is the CA Plumbing Code, which @ICE quoted some sections of for you. you can view that at:






						Searchable platform for building codes
					

Explore a searchable database of US construction and building code. Code regulations are consolidated by state and city for easier navigation.




					up.codes
				




Most likely no one here is going to be familiar with any specific local ordinances, modifications, zoning codes, etc. which is why I was asking if you've had conversations with your local AHJ. Your desire to "pass code" typically means "pass inspection" and that is going to be up to your local inspector. Start there if you haven't already.


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## hardroadz (Jul 14, 2022)

ICE said:


> Good luck getting a permit from the city of Roseville for a detached shower.  The engineered plans will set you back $3,500.  Probably going to need a soils report.


Ice,

Thanks for looking after me.  Application in process and about to get the permit.   Just need to upgrade from Romex 6-3 to 4-3 for the tankless electric water heater.


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## ICE (Jul 15, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> Ice,
> 
> Thanks for looking after me.


You’re welcome.  And welcome to the forum.


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## hardroadz (Jul 15, 2022)

ICE said:


> You’re welcome.  And welcome to the forum.


Thanks, 

I took this pictures this evening:  Now Pergola, but Future Outdoor Shower

The quarter panel wood paneling that you see on the inside will also be installed on inside,  following which I am going to lightly sand it and water proof the heck out of it.   There will be a gap from the side of the shower pan to the walls of the shower which will be just over a foot.  Also, there will be a 4th base wall at the front of the structure to match the other 3 walls.   The reason I have not put that in yet is to facilitate the digging of the drain trench.

No water has been hooked up as of yet, just a rough for shower fixture hookups,  and beginning of the trench for the drain.  As of right now it is just a free-standing pergola, under 120sq ft and under 10 feet.  Once I get permit I will build floor joists and beginning building plumbing rough, which will run about 110ft around the house to sewer main which is at front lawn.  I am hiring a professional to dig the trench and hook this plumbing.   We are using Schedule 40 4 inch due to the better water flow rate of only needing to drop 1/8" per 10ft.

The structure will be painted a light gray on everything except for the inside paneling which I will keep the natural wood color and cover it with many layers of Polyurethane.   

I have given up on the idea of waterproof vinyl tiles, as everyone including my handyman has said it is a bad idea.  I get it.    I am settling for 12" by" 24" matte ceramic tiles.   The one I am buying literally showed it laid in a walk in shower, so I think it is legit:  MSI Napa Gray Ceramic tile.

Despite a couple of negative comments, I have gained some valuable insight on this threads, particular the links to the codes.

Thank you~Robert


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## hardroadz (Jul 15, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> Now Pergola, but Future Outdoor Shower


Here is a link that works:  link


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## e hilton (Jul 15, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> I am settling for 12" by" 24" matte ceramic tiles.   The one I am buying literally showed it laid in a walk in shower, so I think it is legit:


Essentially any tile would work for a shower, water won’t affect them.  Except Glossy tile could be a slippery issue.  Your problem is waterproofing the floor structure that the tile sits on.


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## ICE (Jul 15, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> We are using Schedule 40 4 inch due to the better water flow rate of only needing to drop 1/8" per 10ft.


The minimum slope required for 4" 1/4" per 1ft.  The code allows 4" to have a slope of 1/8" per 1ft. but the code also requires that you get an approval from the AHJ prior to doing the work.  I can tell you I have never been asked for approval to slope less than 1/4" per ft. prior to an inspection.....But you never know how an inspector will react.

_708.1 General. Horizontal drainage piping shall be run in practical alignment and a uniform slope of not less than 1⁄4 inch per foot (20.8 mm/m) or 2 percent toward the point of disposal provided that, where it is impractical due to the depth of the street sewer, to the structural features, or to the arrangement of a building or structure to obtain a slope of 1⁄4 inch per foot (20.8 mm/m) or 2 percent, such pipe or piping 4 inches (100 mm) or larger in diameter shall be permitted to have a slope of not less than 1⁄8 inch per foot (10.4 mm/m) or 1 percent, where *first approved* by the Authority Havinng Jurisdiction._


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## hardroadz (Jul 15, 2022)

e hilton said:


> Essentially any tile would work for a shower, water won’t affect them.  Except Glossy tile could be a slippery issue.  Your problem is waterproofing the floor structure that the tile sits on.


Understood, going to paint on at least 3 layers of Waterproof membrane.   Then will do a flood test of the shower pan basin after stopping drain with a test plug.


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## Inspector Gadget (Jul 15, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> North Star:
> 
> I intend to lay planks over 3 layers of standard grade asphalt-impregnated roofing felt per code.    Then I will fill in any gaps between planks with plumbers caulk, wipe and let dry for 24hrs.   Then I will apply 2 layers of Vinyl Floor on to of the flooring.   This will make the floor look glossy, but I don't mind.   Again, if this configuration lasts me 2-3 years, this will be a victory.



Speaking not so much as a building inspector, but as a guy who did a lot of shower floors, tubs and other waterproofy things in his construction days.

I can summarize what you wrote about in one word.

"Disaster."

With the relative affordability of waterproofing membranes (Schleuter, etc), I have no idea why you would go to all the effort of the above when the same (or less) energy would create a water*proof* assembly that, once tiled, will last to long after I am compost. 

Speaking now as a building inspector, your post is a perfect example of why Codes and code officials are a necessity: because some folks just don't want to do things the right way.


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## Yikes (Jul 15, 2022)

It's worth pointing out that on other previous threads we discussed the distinction between a shower for bathing purposes vs a shower for rinse-off purposes, such as at the deck of a pool.
See also this old thread: https://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/threads/outdoor-bathing-irc-2009.27313/

Here's a few other references regarding how different cities approach the idea of rinse-off showers:
Newport Beach: https://www.newportbeachca.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/2921/635682493202100000
Sonoma: https://permitsonoma.org/divisions/...ins/p-052020residentialoutdoorshowersandsinks


Lastly, at an outdoor location near Dunsmuir, Doug Ewing Architects won a 2017 AIA award for an outdoor shower on a cedar deck.  You may want to call and ask Doug about how it got approval, and how it's holding up.

https://caltrout.org/news/trout-camps-trout-house-wins-architectural-design-award


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## bill1952 (Jul 15, 2022)

Thanks Yikes.  Very interesting.


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## hardroadz (Jul 15, 2022)

Yikes said:


> It's worth pointing out that on other previous threads we discussed the distinction between a shower for bathing purposes vs a shower for rinse-off purposes, such as at the deck of a pool.
> See also this old thread: https://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/threads/outdoor-bathing-irc-2009.27313/
> 
> Here's a few other references regarding how different cities approach the idea of rinse-off showers:
> ...


My shower will be full shower with hot and cold, not just rinse-off.

Impressive outdoor shower Doug built indeed.    Thanks for posting it.


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## ADAguy (Jul 18, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> I have fixed up a house before in Nashville, TN   However, that was not going through codes.   I have the skills, just need to understand the codes.    They are not entirely clear or easy to find on the web for California.


very easy! Google CBC 2019


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## hardroadz (Jul 21, 2022)

e hilton said:


> Plywood floor, couple of coats of redguard, tile and thinset.  That will last a couple of years.  1/4” slope is almost too much in a shower, go for 1/8” it will still drain well.


e Hilton:

Thanks for this.   I would much prefer going with 1/8" per foot.    I am nervous though, because all references I find on Internet specify .25" per foot.   Are you confident that 1/8" is legit in CA?   Many Thanks~Robert


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## e hilton (Jul 21, 2022)

_Are you confident that 1/8" is legit in CA?_

I am not a design profession, i am not a code official, and i don't live in calif. The only thing i am confident of is the sun rises in the east and my wife is always right.  

Clean water with no solids will flow to a drain with a 1/8” slope.  I’m thinking of standing in soapy water and bare feet on a 1/4” floor.


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## hardroadz (Jul 21, 2022)

e hilton said:


> _Are you confident that 1/8" is legit in CA?_
> 
> I am not a design profession, i am not a code official, and i don't live in calif. The only thing i am confident of is the sun rises in the east and my wife is always right.
> 
> Clean water with no solids will flow to a drain with a 1/8” slope.  I’m thinking of standing in soapy water and bare feet on a 1/4” floor.


Excellent.   Agreed that 1/4" could potentially be a slip hazard, especially pool-soaked, slick feet.   Thanks again~Robert


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## JPohling (Jul 21, 2022)

1/4" per foot is the minimum slope for the liner or pan in California.   2019 CPC 408.7.  
1/4" per foot is not much of a pitch, certainly not something you would slide down......


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## hardroadz (Jul 21, 2022)

JPohling said:


> 1/4" per foot is the minimum slope for the liner or pan in California.   2019 CPC 408.7.
> 1/4" per foot is not much of a pitch, certainly not something you would slide down......


Hi Jpohling,

You are correct in that 2019 CPC 408.7 clearly states 1/4" per foot; however, here link--Placer County is a link for Placer County shower pan requirements which states that minimum is 1/8 inch.    Thus part of frustration with codes and standards is that there is not always consistency.


----------



## ICE (Jul 21, 2022)

The pan is not what you will be standing on.  1/4" per foot in the minimum slope for a pan no matter what Placer County has published.  The shower floor is what you will stand on and there is no minimum slope for a private shower finished floor surface.


----------



## e hilton (Jul 21, 2022)

All the more reason to stop putzing around with this youtube concept and construct a proper shower.


----------



## hardroadz (Jul 21, 2022)

e hilton said:


> All the more reason to stop putzing around with this youtube concept and construct a proper shower.




I am not putzing around.   In fact, my plan which involves liquid membrane was a approved by City of Roseville this morning for a whopping $125.97 for the cost of the permit.  (not excess of S3,500 for Soil studies and engineering plans as ICE speculated)

Switching gears, eHilton, you were right the first time:   In the .pdf for Placer County it states the following:  _The pan liner shall maintain a uniform slope of ⅛” – ½” per foot.  _link


----------



## ICE (Jul 21, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> In the .pdf for Placer County it states the following:  _The pan liner shall maintain a uniform slope of ⅛” – ½” per foot.  _link


You could be a responsible citizen and alert Placer County of their typo.


----------



## hardroadz (Jul 21, 2022)

ICE said:


> You could be a responsible citizen and alert Placer County of their typo.


Are you you saying this tongue and cheek?   I think they meant to write that because it is mentioned twice in the same document, once for the final floor slope and once for the shower pan.


----------



## JPohling (Jul 22, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> Are you you saying this tongue and cheek?   I think they meant to write that because it is mentioned twice in the same document, once for the final floor slope and once for the shower pan.


nope absolutely serious.  That is an error in two places.  It is not code compliant and they did not amend the code section or not adopt it.


----------



## hardroadz (Jul 22, 2022)

e hilton said:


> All the more reason to stop putzing around with this youtube concept and construct a proper shower.


So far, I have found at least 3 people that think 1/8" per foot is ok.   The guy who wrote the document for Placer County, eHilton, and my father.  I wonder if there are any others out there?


----------



## Joe.B (Jul 22, 2022)

JPohling said:


> 1/4" per foot is the minimum slope for the liner or pan in California. *  2019 CPC 408.7. *





hardroadz said:


> So far, I have found at least 3 people that think 1/8" per foot is ok.



It really doesn't matter what anybody thinks if the discussion is about code requirements. California law requires that new construction adhere to the current code requirements adopted by the state. The current code has been referenced and ways for you to read the code have been shared. 

There is a process that local jurisdictions can use to make amendments and it's easy to search and see if a local AHJ has made an amendment. They haven't so that's why it's being pointed out that the pdf you are referencing is wrong.


----------



## e hilton (Jul 22, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> So far, I have found at least 3 people that think 1/8" per foot is ok.   The guy who wrote the document for Placer County, eHilton, and my father.  I wonder if there are any others out there?


You can’t be serious.  Actually, after reading this entire discussion i know you’re delusional and a card short of a full deck.  What i think, and what your father thinks, are totally irrelevant.  Written code governs.


----------



## ICE (Jul 22, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> So far, I have found at least 3 people that think 1/8" per foot is ok.   The guy who wrote the document for Placer County, eHilton, and my father.  I wonder if there are any others out there?


I only trust the opinions of professionals....I put a call in to my dentist.....my wife, the CFO of an aerospace company, is undecided.  Our landscaper charges like he's a professional but he doesn't speak English.

When all of the opinions are recorded a decision must be made...a decision to adhere to the written code or what Eduardo pointed to.


----------



## hardroadz (Jul 23, 2022)

e hilton said:


> You can’t be serious.  Actually, after reading this entire discussion i know you’re delusional and a card short of a full deck.  What i think, and what your father thinks, are totally irrelevant.  Written code governs.


e Hilton:   This is what you wrote a few days ago:  _1/4” slope is almost too much in a shower, go for 1/8” it will still drain well._


----------



## e hilton (Jul 23, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> e Hilton:   This is what you wrote a few days ago:  _1/4” slope is almost too much in a shower, go for 1/8” it will still drain well._


I know what i wrote.   I also know that was my OPINION based on personal experience.  Since your state has thoughtfully published building codes, and they have the ability to enforce those codes, you should follow them.


----------



## hardroadz (Jul 25, 2022)

e hilton said:


> I know what i wrote.   I also know that was my OPINION based on personal experience.  Since your state has thoughtfully published building codes, and they have the ability to enforce those codes, you should follow them.


I spoke with Justin from City of Roseville who confirmed that the document referenced is accurate and current.   1/8" per foot is minimum slope in Placer County.  You were right the first time before you second guessed yourself.


----------



## ICE (Jul 25, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> I spoke with Justin from City of Roseville who confirmed that the document referenced is accurate and current.   1/8" per foot is minimum slope in Placer County.  You were right the first time before you second guessed yourself.


Justin meant to say that the document is inaccurate and current.  Water that makes it to the liner has to flow through mortar to get to a drain.  That is a slow migration at 1/4” slope and half assed at 1/8” slope.   The shower is outdoors so mold is probably inevitable because the sides are open and you will need to block the drain when not in use …..which means that rain water will sit….and soak.


----------



## hardroadz (Jul 25, 2022)

ICE said:


> Justin meant to say that the document is inaccurate and current.  Water that makes it to the liner has to flow through mortar to get to a drain.  That is a slow migration at 1/4” slope and half assed at 1/8” slope.   The shower is outdoors so mold is probably inevitable because the sides are open and you will need to block the drain when not in use …..which means that rain water will sit….and soak.






ICE said:


> Justin meant to say that the document is inaccurate and current.  Water that makes it to the liner has to flow through mortar to get to a drain.  That is a slow migration at 1/4” slope and half assed at 1/8” slope.   The shower is outdoors so mold is probably inevitable because the sides are open and you will need to block the drain when not in use …..which means that rain water will sit….and soak.


Some of you old timers need to get a grip... There were 2 officials from City of Roseville on this call and confirmed the document is accurate and current.


----------



## ICE (Jul 25, 2022)

“Some of you old timers need to get a grip... There were 2 officials from City of Roseville on this call and confirmed the document is accurate and current”

Have it your way….it is of no consequence to me.


----------



## ADAguy (Jul 29, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> Hi Jpohling,
> 
> You are correct in that 2019 CPC 408.7 clearly states 1/4" per foot; however, here link--Placer County is a link for Placer County shower pan requirements which states that minimum is 1/8 inch.    Thus part of frustration with codes and standards is that there is not always consistency.


Is that 2% max (as in ADA)?


----------



## tmurray (Jul 29, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> Some of you old timers need to get a grip... There were 2 officials from City of Roseville on this call and confirmed the document is accurate and current.


The issue is that they are wrong. California has a state code and the local jurisdiction has no ability to amend or change it.

I guess the only good news is that if they think they are right, you should be able to get away with it at that slope.

The only risk would be if a diligent home inspector or insurance adjuster (heaven forbid you need this) come across it. It may be in your best interest to heed the advice of the diligent professionals on this forum who referenced the actual code. 

Also, your use of ad hominem in your argument undermines the entirety of it. Arguments are stronger when you can eliminate any logical fallacies.


----------



## hardroadz (Jul 30, 2022)

tmurray said:


> The issue is that they are wrong. California has a state code and the local jurisdiction has no ability to amend or change it.
> 
> I guess the only good news is that if they think they are right, you should be able to get away with it at that slope.
> 
> ...



My planned pan slope will end up being between 1/8" and 1/4" per foot.   In a couple of weeks I will have a plumbing rough inspection, and I will present the planned slope to the inspector at that time, along with the County of Placer document which 2 officials from City of Roseville Codes (the inspector's colleagues) have already giving their approval on.   If by chance the inspector agrees with you all (except early eHilton's opinion),  it will be an easy change to increase if to 1/4" per foot.

I don't recall using ad hominem in my argument, just presenting a published document from my county.


----------



## Ed Cooke (Aug 2, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> I have fixed up a house before in Nashville, TN   However, that was not going through codes.   I have the skills, just need to understand the codes.    They are not entirely clear or easy to find on the web for California.


hardroadz, they are at this URL. 2019 version is still applicable. https://www.dgs.ca.gov/BSC/Codes


----------



## hardroadz (Sep 3, 2022)

Ed Cooke said:


> hardroadz, they are at this URL. 2019 version is still applicable. https://www.dgs.ca.gov/BSC/Codes


As promised, I wanted to give an update on how the first inspection went.   

Inspector said that the 2" cleanout was sufficient for the first 100 ft.   Therefore I will be placing just 1 additional 4" cleanout approximately at 65 ft marker of the total 105 ft run.   I know I only needed a 3" cleanout for the 4" ABS, but connection parts end up being cheaper and easier to keep it a 4" cleanout.

As for the shower, slope, inspector said, I am not going to measure the grade, but just want to see water fall to the shower drain.

Inspector was a stickler about making sure I had proper pipe material for both the 2" drain plumbing in the shower (using Schedule 40 pvc) and the rest of the 4" ABS.

Inspector also asked me to raise the plumbing vent from the current 7' or so to 10'.   That's a supper easy change.

So far everything on track.  I will keep you updated on how the shower pan test goes after the liquid membrane is installed.   Thanks, all.~Robert


----------



## hardroadz (Sep 3, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> As promised, I wanted to give an update on how the first inspection went.
> 
> Inspector said that the 2" cleanout was sufficient for the first 100 ft.   Therefore I will be placing just 1 additional 4" cleanout approximately at 65 ft marker of the total 105 ft run.   I know I only needed a 3" cleanout for the 4" ABS, but connection parts end up being cheaper and easier to keep it a 4" cleanout.
> 
> ...


To be clear the inspector was happy with me using 2 45 turns separated by about 4' in place of just 1 90 elbow.


----------



## hardroadz (Sep 3, 2022)

Also, inspector seemed fine with me using copper green paint in place of using pressure treated lumber, which would have cost double the price.  shower so far


----------



## hardroadz (Sep 3, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> Also, inspector seemed fine with me using copper green paint in place of using pressure treated lumber, which would have cost double the price.  shower so far


We are going to go with the light gray color that you see on the far right for the final color.


----------



## ICE (Sep 3, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> By the way,* I am not interested in "right" and "wrong"*, just what will pass building codes and what will not.





hardroadz said:


> Also, inspector seemed fine with me using copper green paint in place of using pressure treated lumber, which would have cost double the price.





hardroadz said:


> Inspector said that the 2" cleanout was sufficient for the first 100 ft.


You should have gone with what is right ..... the inspector seems to be clueless as to what is right and what code allows....but then, if the inspector approves the work it will "pass building codes" and that's your objective...so Bravo … carry on.


----------



## hardroadz (Sep 3, 2022)

Thanks, Ice.  I will take it under advisement.


----------



## north star (Sep 4, 2022)

*% % ( ) % %

hardroadz, ...thanks for the updates & the pictures.*

*% % ( ) % %*


----------



## hardroadz (Sep 6, 2022)

north star said:


> *% % ( ) % %
> 
> hardroadz, ...thanks for the updates & the pictures.
> 
> % % ( ) % %*


You bet.  thanks~Robert


----------



## steveray (Sep 6, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> As promised, I wanted to give an update on how the first inspection went.
> 
> Inspector said that the 2" cleanout was sufficient for the first 100 ft.   Therefore I will be placing just 1 additional 4" cleanout approximately at 65 ft marker of the total 105 ft run.   I know I only needed a 3" cleanout for the 4" ABS, but connection parts end up being cheaper and easier to keep it a 4" cleanout.
> 
> ...


How did you connect the PVC to ABS?


----------



## ICE (Sep 6, 2022)

steveray said:


> How did you connect the PVC to ABS?


----------



## Pcinspector1 (Sep 6, 2022)

steveray said:


> How did you connect the PVC to ABS?


Oatley makes a transition glue for PVC to ABS, do you allow it?


----------



## hardroadz (Sep 6, 2022)

Pcinspector1 said:


> Oatley makes a transition glue for PVC to ABS, do you allow it?


Yes, that is exactly what I used.


----------



## steveray (Sep 6, 2022)

Pcinspector1 said:


> Oatley makes a transition glue for PVC to ABS, do you allow it?


Nope....not in CT....


----------



## Pcinspector1 (Sep 6, 2022)

steveray, Not approved in CT?

Oatey® ABS to PVC Transition Medium Bodied Green Cement is recommended for DWV-sewer applications. The green color easily identifies application to pipe surface. Its medium body has excellent gap filling properties and is easy to apply with included in-lid dauber. This low VOC, fast set cement can be used to join ABS to PVC in non-pressure transition joints up to 6 in. diameter. Oatey products have earned the trust of plumbing professionals for over 100 years.

*Code-approved Green cement solvent welds ABS to PVC*
For ABS-plumbed structures with PVC-plumbed local sewer systems
Medium viscosity easily fills gaps and provides more working time
Can be used to join ABS to PVC in non-pressure transition joints up to 6 in. diameter
Recommended application temperature of 40°F to 110°F (4°C to 43°C)
All Oatey solvent cement and primer products are certified to UL Greenguard Gold
Low VOC solvent cement that meets California South Coast Air Quality Management Districts (SCAQMD) 1168/316A or BAAQMD Method 40 requirements
Meets *ASTM Standard D3138* and complies with NSF/ANSI 61 health effects requirements
Please refer to the Oatey Limited Warranty for warranty details


----------



## steveray (Sep 6, 2022)

Does it meet both standards? 2015 BTW...

705.2 ABS plastic. Joints between ABS plastic pipe or fittings
shall comply with Sections 705.2.1 through 705.2.3.

705.2.2 Solvent cementing. Joint surfaces shall be clean
and free from moisture. Solvent cement that conforms to
ASTM D 2235 or CSA B181.1 shall be applied to all joint
surfaces. The joint shall be made while the cement is wet.
Joints shall be made in accordance with ASTM D 2235,
ASTM D 2661, ASTM F 628 or CSA B181.1. Solvent cement
joints shall be permitted above or below ground.

705.11.2 Solvent cementing. Joint surfaces shall be clean
and free from moisture. A purple primer that conforms to
ASTM F 656 shall be applied. Solvent cement not purple
in color and conforming to ASTM D 2564, CSA B137.3,
CSA B181.2 or CSA B182.1 shall be applied to all joint
surfaces. The joint shall be made while the cement is wet
and shall be in accordance with ASTM D 2855. Solventcement
joints shall be permitted above or below ground.


----------



## hardroadz (Sep 23, 2022)

Passed 009 Ground Rough inspection this morning.  I will send updated pictures on Sunday.


----------



## hardroadz (Sep 24, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> Passed 009 Ground Rough inspection this morning.  I will send updated pictures on Sunday.


Correction:  Correct Inspection Type coding is  330 Ground/ Underfloor Plumbing....


----------



## hardroadz (Sep 24, 2022)

On to shower pan inspection.  I will let you know how that goes in about 2 weeks.   Thanks, all on this forum for your support!~Robert


----------



## hardroadz (Oct 7, 2022)

As promised, I am providing updated photos of the project.  

--final pic of floor joists prior to 1 layer of .75" plywood subfloor.
--pic after 2 layers of Blue Max Liquid membrane to server as shower pan membrane.   1-2 more coats to follow.
--shower painted with 2 layers Sherman Williams exterior primer.

Shower pan inspection estimated for mid to late next week.  I will keep you all updated on successes vs. "follies".   Best Regards~Robert.


----------



## hardroadz (Oct 7, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> As promised, I am providing updated photos of the project.
> 
> --final pic of floor joists prior to 1 layer of .75" plywood subfloor.
> --pic after 2 layers of Blue Max Liquid membrane to server as shower pan membrane.   1-2 more coats to follow.
> ...


Here is link to updated pics.  link


----------



## hardroadz (Oct 7, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> Here is link to updated pics.  link


Sorry forgot to mention that after the plywood subfloor there was layer of .5" Durock cement board.


----------



## hardroadz (Oct 7, 2022)

I have been having some technical issues with Shutterfly.  Let me know if you can see the images below.   Thanks, all, and to the few of you who have messaged me personally for your support!~Robert


----------



## mark handler (Oct 8, 2022)




----------



## ICE (Oct 8, 2022)

mark handler said:


> View attachment 9631


I wonder what sort of nasty builds up under the slats?


----------



## hardroadz (Oct 9, 2022)

ICE said:


> I wonder what sort of nasty builds up under the slats?


I'm scratching my head to understand the context of the previous reply.   To be clear, my flooring surface is going to be ceramic tile, for which I will get a prof. mason.

I briefly considered a waterproof planks, but after the the input from several experts including a few on this forum, I abandoned that idea, and will do tiles.

I am sticking, however, with using Blue Max liquid membrane.  Ames Research developed the Blue Max material for NASA several years ago.   Although it is still a new technology, hundreds of successful proof of concepts in California.  I will let you all know how it goes.  thank you~Robert


----------



## mark handler (Oct 11, 2022)

ICE said:


> I wonder what sort of nasty builds up under the slats?


That's why it is removable


----------



## ICE (Oct 11, 2022)

mark handler said:


> That's why it is removable


Only married men would be aware of that.


----------



## ameliasolis (Nov 15, 2022)

ICE said:


> Probably never will .... well of course you could be the first and provide pictures.
> 
> Before you pick out the floor finish material ....well then, here's the rest of the story.
> 
> ...


I haven't heard of an Airstream outdoor shower before (thanks to Jack for providing a pic of it on the new Safari 30'), but I think it's a great idea. I'd like to see Airstream put this shower unit next to the entrance so we can quickly wash our sandy feet (or dog's muddy feet) before leaping back into the coach. (I think the shower is located streetside on the 30' Safari) But why limit it to just the Safari 30'? Wouldn't this be a good feature for all of the Airstreams?


----------



## Ed Cooke (Nov 15, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> I made the mistake of buying a bunch of Trex Composite flooring from Lowes for the outdoor shower I am building only to research and find it is not a viable option, because it cannot seal water tight.
> 
> I am looking into waterproof vynl flooring options that I could put on top of a subfloor in the shower.   I have been looking at Deco Hydrostop product in particular.  Does anyone know if the vynl option is viable for codes in CA?  I really want to avoid having to pour a concrete floor or laying tile.
> 
> Thanks, all~Robert


The current 2019 California Plumbing Code provides linings for showers and receptors in section 408.7. Please go online to: https://www.dgs.ca.gov/BSC/Codes
which will get you to Part 5. See for yourself all the allowable methods for a shower.


----------



## hardroadz (Nov 20, 2022)

Ed Cooke said:


> The current 2019 California Plumbing Code provides linings for showers and receptors in section 408.7. Please go online to: https://www.dgs.ca.gov/BSC/Codes
> which will get you to Part 5. See for yourself all the allowable methods for a shower.


Ed, first of all I can't state enough how much I appreciate your thoughtful and respectful response.   My aim as well was to go with a water tight vinyl flooring.   The problem is from my research there is not material certified that would be shower certified.     So bottom line is that I am biting the bullet and following the advice of Paris Hilton and ICE just going to complete a proper ceramic tile shower floor.


----------



## ameliasolis (Dec 6, 2022)

@Ed Cooke thank you so much for your suggestion


----------



## hardroadz (Dec 22, 2022)

ameliasolis said:


> @Ed Cooke thank you so much for your suggestion


Passed shower pan inspection today.     Used Ames Blue Max Tile and Floor Liquid rubber for membrane, 4 coats.    Zero leakage.

Tomorrow will start ceramic floor.  Thanks, all for your support and Happy Holidays.~Robert


----------



## hardroadz (Dec 23, 2022)

hardroadz said:


> Passed shower pan inspection today.     Used Ames Blue Max Tile and Floor Liquid rubber for membrane, 4 coats.    Zero leakage.
> 
> Tomorrow will start ceramic floor.  Thanks, all for your support and Happy Holidays.~Robert





hardroadz said:


> Passed shower pan inspection today.     Used Ames Blue Max Tile and Floor Liquid rubber for membrane, 4 coats.    Zero leakage.
> 
> Tomorrow will start ceramic floor.  Thanks, all for your support and Happy Holidays.~Robert


----------



## hardroadz (Dec 23, 2022)




----------



## No Soup for you (Dec 30, 2022)

Great... only took six months to get that far


----------



## steveray (Dec 30, 2022)

No Soup for you said:


> Great... only took six months to get that far


It is California and a homeowner project....


----------



## ICE (Dec 30, 2022)

I'm not sure that posting your address is a good idea.


----------



## hardroadz (Jan 4, 2023)

steveray said:


> It is California and a homeowner project....


Thank you all good friends on this forum for your continued support.  I could not have gotten even this far without your support.   I will keep you posted on the impending jaws of success, as slow as they appear to be arriving from your perception.   Many Thanks, and Happy New Year.~Robert


----------



## hardroadz (Jan 4, 2023)

hardroadz said:


> Thank you all good friends on this forum for your continued support.  I could not have gotten even this far without your support.   I will keep you posted on the impending jaws of success, as slow as they appear to be arriving from your perception.   Many Thanks, and Happy New Year.~Robert


On a separate note, I think it might be time for some of yall old schoolers to start taking a serious look at liquid rubber membrane.  It's now UPC approved and not going away.  Many of you all probably had similar reservations when they switched away from knob and tube electrical wiring.


----------



## hardroadz (Jan 5, 2023)

ICE said:


> I'm not sure that posting your address is a good idea.


Bring it.


----------



## ICE (Jan 5, 2023)

hardroadz said:


> Bring it.


?


----------



## hardroadz (Jan 5, 2023)

ICE said:


> ?


Sorry, Ice.  Let me elaborate.

I have nothing to hide.   As far as my home address goes, we pretty much have all the cliché things going for us, Rings, a dobie, firearms, and redneck neighbors. 

The best thing I have going for me is that I always aim to be respectful, not flippant, and not sarcastic.  This is in contrast to some posters.

Best Regards,
Robert


----------



## hardroadz (Jan 5, 2023)

hardroadz said:


> Sorry, Ice.  Let me elaborate.
> 
> I have nothing to hide.   As far as my home address goes, we pretty much have all the cliché things going for us, Rings, a dobie, firearms, and redneck neighbors.
> 
> ...


One other point, is that City of Roseville building inspections are public domain, which means anyone who has access to a computer and Internet can access this information.  I would have thought that a lot of former building inspectors would know this.~Robert


----------



## hardroadz (Jan 5, 2023)

hardroadz said:


> One other point, is that City of Roseville building inspections are public domain, which means anyone who has access to a computer and Internet can access this information.  I would have thought that a lot of former building inspectors would know this.~Robert


Here is the link to City of Roseville's daily inspections, which is public domain:
https://permitsonline.roseville.ca....ule=&reportID=684&reportType=LINK_REPORT_LIST


----------



## ICE (Jan 5, 2023)

hardroadz said:


> Here is the link to City of Roseville's daily inspections, which is public domain:
> https://permitsonline.roseville.ca....ule=&reportID=684&reportType=LINK_REPORT_LIST


Of the twelve city inspectors three have a single Residential Building certification and one guy has more.  None have a plumbing certification.  So I guess you know as much as they do.


----------



## Joe.B (Jan 5, 2023)

ICE said:


> Of the twelve city inspectors three have a single Residential Building certification and one guy has more.  None have a plumbing certification.  So I guess you know as much as they do.


How'd you gather that? There's a few inspectors from neighboring jurisdictions who I suspect have no certs...


----------



## hardroadz (Jan 5, 2023)

Also in public domain is:

17643 Chase st
Northridge, CA  91325









						Google Maps
					

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




					www.google.com
				





ICE said:


> Of the twelve city inspectors three have a single Residential Building certification and one guy has more.  None have a plumbing certification.  So I guess you know as much as they do.


Ice:

I implore you to not be disrespectful, flippant, or sarcastic in your forum dealings.   As far as you have travelled in long time, this will further broaden your horizons and time in this world.  So, from this standpoint, you do have something to learn from me.  `Robert


----------



## hardroadz (Jan 5, 2023)

ICE said:


> Of the twelve city inspectors three have a single Residential Building certification and one guy has more.  None have a plumbing certification.  So I guess you know as much as they do.


Truth be told, ICE.

What you mentioned about the 12 inspectors credentials, was in fact insider knowledge, not public domain.   You have now made that knowledge public.............


----------



## ICE (Jan 5, 2023)

Joe.B said:


> How'd you gather that? There's a few inspectors from neighboring jurisdictions who I suspect have no certs...


ICC website


----------



## ICE (Jan 5, 2023)

hardroadz said:


> Truth be told, ICE.
> 
> What you mentioned about the 12 inspectors credentials, was in fact insider knowledge, not public domain.   You have now made that knowledge public.............


It has been public domain forever.  I can tell you how much they are paid in a year.


----------



## hardroadz (Jan 5, 2023)

hardroadz said:


> Truth be told, ICE.
> 
> What you mentioned about the 12 inspectors credentials, was in fact insider knowledge, not public domain.   You have now made that knowledge public.............




The beauty about a


----------



## hardroadz (Jan 5, 2023)

ICE:  Maybe you can start a new state with even more stringent building codes and California, and everyone will move there because they will feel more safe??........................


----------



## hardroadz (Jan 5, 2023)

hardroadz said:


> ICE:  Maybe you can start a new state with even more stringent building codes and California, and everyone will move there because they will feel more safe??........


----------



## hardroadz (Jan 5, 2023)

Sorry meant to state:   


hardroadz said:


> ICE:  Maybe you can start a new state with even more stringent building codes than California, and everyone will move there because they will feel more safe??...........


----------



## ICE (Jan 5, 2023)

So Robert is your brain rattled or is it just your fingers?


----------



## ICE (Jan 5, 2023)

hardroadz said:


> Also in public domain is:
> 
> 17643 Chase st
> Northridge, CA  91325
> ...


So who lives in that little house?


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## hardroadz (Jan 5, 2023)

ICE said:


> So Robert is your brain rattled or is it just your fingers?



ICE: To be clear, if passing inspections in California is not sufficient by your standards, then you should start your own state, provence or county, at which time people will flock to you, because they will feel safer than the casual California building codes.

Short of that it is time for you to own up to some pwndership.


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## hardroadz (Jan 5, 2023)

Also, naming my project a folly will prove to be one your biggest, in time.


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## ICE (Jan 5, 2023)

hardroadz said:


> ICE: To be clear, if passing inspections in California is not sufficient by your standards, then you should start your own state, provence or county, at which time people will flock to you, because they will feel safer than the casual California building codes.
> 
> Short of that it is time for you to own up to some pwndership.


Robert, All that matters is that the good citizens of Roseville are well served by the inspection staff.  Something to be aware of is that a great many California cities have inspectors that lack certifications.  While lacking certifications doesn't automatically mean that they are not competant, it doesn't indicate that they are and then there's a State requirement but that's another issue.

I don't begrudge you the signature on a permit that attests to the code compliance of your outdoor shower.  Even if it is completely wrong ....Shirley it's not going to matter....it's just a shower.....and not even in the building.  
A permit and inspections by people with no requisite qualifications is a cruel hoax but hardly a crime.  

As a matter of fact following your suggestion that I start my own state....your outdoor shower would be exempt and I would consider conferring inspector status on anyone named Robert.

You and most of the population are just as happy as if you had good sense.....so who am I to harsh your gig?


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## hardroadz (Jan 5, 2023)

ICE said:


> Robert, All that matters is that the good citizens of Roseville are well served by the inspection staff.  Something to be aware of is that a great many California cities have inspectors that lack certifications.  While lacking certifications doesn't automatically mean that they are not competant, it doesn't indicate that they are and then there's a State requirement but that's another issue.
> 
> I don't begrudge you the signature on a permit that attests to the code compliance of your outdoor shower.  Even if it is completely wrong ....Shirley it's not going to matter....it's just a shower.....and not even in the building.
> A permit and inspections by people with no requisite qualifications is a cruel hoax but hardly a crime.
> ...


Ice: 

I appreciate the sincere response.

My story is simple.

I was a student in Nashville, TN over 2 decades ago.   I talked my father into lending me money to buy a fixer upper house 2 blocks East of Vanderbilt in 2002.  Through the help of my other father (stepfather), I was mentored on the skills of home improvement.

Thus, when I approached buildingcodefurum.com


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## hardroadz (Jan 5, 2023)

hardroadz said:


> Ice:
> 
> I appreciate the sincere response.
> 
> ...


Sorry, my own post got cut off.  In short,  i know geometry and mechanical physics, which are both essential in everyday construction.  What I lack is knowledge of differences of codes from one jurisdiction to another.  That is what I approached this forum for.  

All of the responses and banter, both positive and negative have been invaluable me and have helped me shape my project.   For this I am thankful.


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