# Fines?



## LGreene (Jan 21, 2011)

St. Catharines, Ontario has recently had 3 big apartment fires within a month.  The first article I read stated that the fire chief said that the door to the apartment where the fire originated did not close completely.  I asked the fire chief what exactly was wrong with the door but he couldn't tell me much because there would be charges filed against the owner/property manager.

I saw this article today:  http://www.610cktb.com/news/local/story.aspx?ID=1349975, and it says that the property manager was fined $63,000 for not maintaining smoke alarms and "proper fire door closure devices."  I'm not sure this is the same apartment building because the street name is different, but regardless...

My question for any AHJs out there is this:  Do you issue fines for fire doors that aren't properly maintained?

The reason I'm asking is because I'd like to have some data to support the premise that an annual fire door inspection (as required by NFPA 80 2007 & 2010) and performing the necessary repairs is less expensive than paying a fine, or in this case, paying a fine and having several hundred thousand dollars in property damage.


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## cda (Jan 22, 2011)

We fine as last resort, if we cannot get compliance within reasonable time

Our citation is up to $ 2000 per ticket and if we can get the judge to accept it we have threatened issuing a ticket a day till we get compliance

99% of the time we get compliance


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## FM William Burns (Jan 24, 2011)

Our citations are for violation of the code in which not having fire separation intact or maintained would be citable. Our's go 100.00, 250.00 and 500.00 per occurance and if it got to the point of 63,000....well I would be out of a job.


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## jpranch (Jan 24, 2011)

Our local fire marshal does not have any authority to issue citations or fines. Very sad.


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## LGreene (Jan 24, 2011)

This is interesting.  The $63,000 fine was for deficiencies which affected a fire that had already occurred, and obviously a lot larger than the fines you guys mentioned.  Maybe because it's in Canada??


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## Builder Bob (Jan 25, 2011)

When problems arise and people have more than 10 employees, OSHA has the same requirements within --- a complaint form to OSHA always seems to work better than the threat of a fine...Just my $0.02 worth.

OSHA has a way of looking beyond the scope of the filed complaint...


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## permitguy (Jan 25, 2011)

We have 7 cities and 2 counties in our fire district.  Each is a little different, but they generally fine several hundred for a violation, and each day is a seperate violation.  It is only imposed to this extent at the discretion of the prosecutor.  They have to blatantly ignore our violation notices for some time before it gets to that point.  As a department, we're only in court about once per quarter.

I wonder if these were previously identified violations which had gone uncorrected . . .


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## FM William Burns (Jan 25, 2011)

Just an FYI..........personally I can't stand writing tickets and have only written < 10 in my career.

They just love my pleasant way of explaining their shortfall and comply.


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## cda (Jan 25, 2011)

Yea I hit my quota of one a year, then quit


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## permitguy (Jan 25, 2011)

I'm with you.  I don't think once per quarter for 7 full time compliance inspectors is too bad.  Educate, educate, educate!


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