# LP Gas cylinder exchange cage



## Mac (May 24, 2013)

Admin may move to a more relevant topic

A retail store wants to place a cylinder exchange cage for tanks up to 20lb. on the site. You may have seen these little cages, mostly for residential gas grills.

NFPA 58 requires protection from vehicle damage "in accordance with good engineering practice". The vendor uses precast concrete "jersey barriers" in other installations, with (of course) no question from local codes. Personally, I would prefer a couple of concrete filled pipe bollards but am not qualified to practice engineering, good bad or otherwise.

What's common in your area?


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## rshuey (May 24, 2013)

Concrete filled pipe bollards here. They are required by the local gas co for in front of the meters, so they are pretty standard to see here. Usually no complaints.


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## hlfireinspector (May 24, 2013)

Same here. It's in the code see vehicle impact protection in IFC .*312.1 General. *Vehicle impact protection required by this

code shall be provided by posts that comply with Section 312.2

or by other approved physical barriers that comply with Section

312.3.

*312.2 Posts. *Guard posts shall comply with all of the following

requirements:

1. Constructed of steel not less than 4 inches (102 mm) in

diameter and concrete filled.

2. Spaced not more than 4 feet (1219 mm) between posts on

center.

3. Set not less than 3 feet (914 mm) deep in a concrete footing

of not less than a 15-inch (381 mm) diameter.

4. Set with the top of the posts not less than 3 feet (914 mm)

above ground.

5. Located not less than 3 feet (914 mm) from the protected

object.

*312.3 Other barriers. *Physical barriers shall be a minimum of

36 inches (914 mm) in height and shall resist a force of 12,000

pounds (53 375 N) applied 36 inches (914 mm) above the adjacent

ground surface.


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## globe trekker (May 24, 2013)

Mac,

In this AHJ, we have seen the concrete pipe bollards used; as well as,  the concrete

parking bumpers installed at the front of the parking space closest to the store.

.


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## Mac (May 24, 2013)

Yeah that's what I'm talking about - I replied that if the jersey barriers can be shown to comply with 312.3 they will be OK.

After a Site Plan Review by the planning board that is.


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## jar546 (May 24, 2013)

Anyone have any ideas on where this should be move to, if at all?


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## fatboy (May 24, 2013)

Here is good as any, could be in commercial, fire, fuel gas, probably get more looks here.


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## rshuey (May 24, 2013)

Commercial Fire Codes.


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## Pcinspector1 (May 29, 2013)

Ummm... 2006IFC 3809.13 sez vehicular protection of the LP containers shall be provided as required by the fire code official. 312.1 provides more information as to the protection.

Does the cage and a curb stop not provide some protection from a vehicle?

pc1


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## Mac (May 29, 2013)

"Does the cage and a curb stop not provide some protection from a vehicle?'

I have been involved with several 'car into building' incidents. Somebody hits the gas instead of the brake and whooeee I was surprised at how far into a bank branch the car went.


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## steveray (May 29, 2013)

Ditto.....



			
				Mac said:
			
		

> "Does the cage and a curb stop not provide some protection from a vehicle?'I have been involved with several 'car into building' incidents. Somebody hits the gas instead of the brake and whooeee I was surprised at how far into a bank branch the car went.


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## Builder Bob (May 29, 2013)

Looks like the curb stopped this one.....





Look at the propane rack to the right of the car.........


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## north star (May 29, 2013)

*' = = '*

IMO, ...the bollards will provide something very minimal

at best.....The curb stops, ...same thing !

I'm thinking that somewhere along the line, vehicles

have crashed in to a variety of bldgs., ...appliances,

cages and everything in between......When the vehicle

owners got sued for damaging what they crashed in to

and won the case, because nothing was provided to

stop them, ...then insurance companies started

mandating something as a barrier.....Now, the vehicle

owners could be held liable for their actions.

*' = = '*


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## Pcinspector1 (Jun 3, 2013)

Not seeing bollards installed  around caged LP exchange cabinets in my area, (Not my jursdiction). Most are meeting the clearance to the exit egress and most are installed on the buildings sidewalk in front of the stores.

BB, I had to take somex last night becuse of you.......and your picture! I'm a worrier not a warrior!

pc1


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