# ICC ANSI - forward approach to urinal



## Builder Bob (Jan 22, 2018)

I have another question concerning accessibility - an on site inspection by a state ran agency has stated the following code section in regards to a Men's group restroom with two urinals.  Alcove - ICC ANSI 305.7





The inspection has identified the following restroom as being non-compliant.




If this is the case, why would you ever replace a water closet with an Urinal?

Have any of you ever been cited for this application of an Alcove as outlined in ICC ANSI Clear Floor


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## steveray (Jan 23, 2018)

I have cited that section where the urinal screen is >24".......Also on drinking fountains and lavs....305.7.2 is required at the urinal as I don't believe you can do parallel on that one...


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## mark handler (Jan 23, 2018)

based on the drawing there is not 18" clear at the screen. The screen appears to be inside the clear area.


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## ADAguy (Jan 23, 2018)

are the dimensions indicated "FoF" (face of finish), or centerline?


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## Builder Bob (Jan 24, 2018)

The issue at hand is the standard floor plan is for 30" face to face of partition walls..... according to the ICC Ansi alcove, it states teh following:



The item of discussion is the fact that the urinal partition is not over 24" in depth, therefore the alcove created by the partitions is not deeper than 24" in depth.


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## steveray (Jan 25, 2018)

Correct.....Then it only needs to be 30 clear....And no closer than 15 to either side...


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## ADAguy (Jan 25, 2018)

That may be the "minimum" but in practice it is not "best practice" to do so as it leaves no room for less than perpendicular approach.
If a number  of side by side with waterless urinals, note the floor below the urinals or your shoes (smiling).


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## steveray (Jan 26, 2018)

While we are here....If only one side is greater than 24" and one less, does it still apply? Is that what the "on all or part of three sides" comes from or means?


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## ADAguy (Jan 26, 2018)

There you go, splitting hairs; if the wall on the left is the room wall >24" then 18" applies, if on the right is <24" that side can be 15".


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## mark handler (Jan 27, 2018)

ADAguy said:


> There you go, splitting hairs; if the wall on the left is the room wall >24" then 18" applies, if on the right is <24" that side can be 15".


And as you know, splitting hairs, is precisely how you get in or out of the lawsuits.


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## JPohling (Feb 1, 2018)

If one side is less than 24"  I go with 30" clear,  both sides greater than 24" then 36" required


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## Builder Bob (Feb 6, 2018)

Interesting, interpretation from ADA Access Board 

As noted in the disclaimer below, this is informal assistance.  We do not enforce the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), nor do we interpret ANSI A117.9. 


In terms of the ADA and the 2010 ADA Standards, in our online guide, on Chapter 3: Building Blocks, Clear Floor or Ground Space …, we say in the section titled *Approach and Maneuvering Clearance [§305.6 and §305.7]:  *Where the space is obstructed on both sides for more than half the depth, additional clearance is required for maneuvering.  Accessible routes must connect to the unobstructed side of the space.


Since both sides of your 30” by 48” are not obstructed more than 24”, the width is not required to be increased to 36”.


Link to online guides:  https://www.access-board.gov/guidel...-the-ada-standards/guide-to-the-ada-standards

Link to combined ADA Standards (including the 2010): https://www.access-board.gov/guidel...d-sites/about-the-ada-standards/ada-standards


Paul Beatty


Disclaimer: Technical assistance provided in this email is intended solely as informal guidance; it is neither a determination of your legal rights or responsibilities, nor a statement of the official views of the U.S. Access Board or any other federal agency.  Any links to non-federal websites are provided as a courtesy and do not represent an endorsement of the linked information, products, or services.


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## steveray (Feb 7, 2018)

Thanks BB!....Out of curiosity, where did that Paul Beatty name come from? We have a State guy here with that name....


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## Builder Bob (Feb 7, 2018)

That was the person who responded to our request for their interpretation.


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