# Type I or Type II Hood??



## Big Mac (Sep 10, 2012)

Back to the age old question, but maybe we are getting closer with a code answer.  Looking for clarification from anyone in the know.

I am told the 2012 IMC has made the latest attempt at clarity as to when a Type I or Type II cooking hoods is required, by providing a new exception in 507.2.1 which references Sec 17 of UL 710B-appliance effluent in an electric cooking appliance that generate 5mg/ or less of grease.

Second part of this question, according to my information the exception only applies to electric cooking appliances.  Anybody able to share any more particulars about this subject.  As of now, we do not have the 2012 IMC in house.  May not be much help to me in this particular circumstance if it is limited to electric cooking appliances but would still like to hear more particulars if anyone has them.


----------



## Big Mac (Sep 10, 2012)

FYI - Just found this additional information.

Just came across something interesting.  As codes evolve, they sometimes provide some clarity as to what was actually intended by previous code but had been confusing for some applicant and code officials.  This appears to be the case with at least one section of the 2012 International Mechanical Code.  The following is a quote from the 2012 International Mechanical Code, Section 507.2.1 and the exception thereto:

“Type I hoods shall be installed where cooking appliances produce grease or smoke as a result of the cooking process.  Type I hoods shall be installed over Medium-Duty, Heavy-Duty and Extra-Heavy-Duty cooking appliances.  Type I hoods shall be installed over Light-Duty cooking appliances that produce grease or smoke.

               Exception:  A Type I hood shall not be required for an electric cooking appliance where an approved testing agency provides documentation that the appliance effluent contains 5mg/m3 ( that should read m squared but apparently that function doesn't transfer to this forum)  or less of grease when tested at an exhaust flow rate of 500cfm in accordance with Section 17 of UL 710B.

As you can see, it only applies to electric appliances, not gas fired appliances.

I lied, apparently there was a 2012 IMC hiding here.


----------



## cda (Sep 10, 2012)

read about page 46

http://www.iccsafe.org/cs/codes/documents/2009-10cycle/faa/imc.pdf

maybe the george foreman rule???


----------



## Gregg Harris (Sep 10, 2012)

Big Mac said:
			
		

> FYI - Just found this additional information.Just came across something interesting.  As codes evolve, they sometimes provide some clarity as to what was actually intended by previous code but had been confusing for some applicant and code officials.  This appears to be the case with at least one section of the 2012 International Mechanical Code.  The following is a quote from the 2012 International Mechanical Code, Section 507.2.1 and the exception thereto:
> 
> “Type I hoods shall be installed where cooking appliances produce grease or smoke as a result of the cooking process.  Type I hoods shall be installed over Medium-Duty, Heavy-Duty and Extra-Heavy-Duty cooking appliances.  Type I hoods shall be installed over Light-Duty cooking appliances that produce grease or smoke.
> 
> ...


Would not the volume of grease as a constituent of the effluent depend on what was being cooked?


----------



## klarenbeek (Sep 10, 2012)

My guess is this is meant to apply to appliances like Turbo Chef ovens. Subway uses them to toast subs, but I also see them used a lot by convenience stores for cooking pizzas, precooked sandwiches, etc. Some of them in their listing even allow for cooking some raw meats (you have to check the listing of each appliance to see what it was tested with) without a type I hood. They only meet part of the 710B requirements, not sure what part (I'm guessing section 17?). IMC never gave an exception for these before, so I'm guessing this is it. These appliances do not emit much, if any, grease.


----------



## cda (Sep 10, 2012)

looks like this number came form NFPA 710b       """" appliance effluent contains 5mg/m3 """" because the air returned to the kitchen is not suppose to exceed that.

So if you are not creating above that level, guess they figure if you can breath it, it is not dngerous????????????


----------



## Papio Bldg Dept (Sep 11, 2012)

This is my latest journey down the rabbit hole on the domestic appliance versus commercial appliance Type I Hood question for an apartment complex clubhouse kitchen where they have yet to give me the same answer twice on how the kitchen will be used (e.g., open house events, etc.):

_We will review the frequency, or duration, of use and the quantities of grease-laden vapors, or smoke, produced by the cooking operations performed on the domestic/residential appliance.  In evaluating the use, we want to document the worst case conditions, in this case the highest frequency of use, or operations that would produce the greatest amounts of grease laden vapors, and make an appropriate and reasonable assessment.  The primary purpose of a Type I hood is to control or limit a potential fire hazard associated with grease, and for a Type II hood to limit waste and moisture burdens on HVAC systems and prevent unhealthy environmental conditions such as mold.  I have quoted Section 507.2.3 of the 2006 IMC below for your reference._

_*507.2.3 Domestic cooking appliances used for commercial purposes.*__Domestic cooking appliances utilized for commercial purposes shall be provided with Type I or Type II hoods as required for the type of appliances and processes in accordance with Sections 507.2, 507.2.1 and 507.2.2._

_Under normal circumstances, I would tend to agree with your proposal, and from review of the limited information provided, find a downdraft system to be a reasonable and compliant design solution in most circumstances.  However, being that the owner’s letter specifically noted that this kitchen area will not be used as a catering kitchen (in our AHJ, a catering kitchen is typically defined as a limited use kitchen used only for warming, baking and serving, with most food preparations occurring off-site.), and the use of the kitchen area can be rented out for special events, suggests revenue generating conditions may create prolonged use and increases in grease-laden vapors.  As such, we are simply attempting to clarify the expected conditions and document that the design meets the intent.  In addition, we rely on the professional license of the designer, in this case the mechanical engineer, to provide a compliant design that mitigates potential hazards and is in compliance with the intent of the applicable codes._


----------



## Papio Bldg Dept (Sep 11, 2012)

Gregg Harris said:
			
		

> Would not the volume of grease as a constituent of the effluent depend on what was being cooked?


if the state fairs of this great land have taught us anything, it is that anything and everything can be fried.


----------



## Big Mac (Sep 12, 2012)

Let's see if we can take this discussion one step further.

Proposed: Conveyor Pizza Oven with gas fuel.  Defined as a medium-duty cooking appliance.  Medium-duty cooking appliances are required to have Type I hoods over.  I have often heard the argument that a Type I hood is not required because the amount of grease vapors generated is small.  This new provision would seem to quell that argument once and for all for gas fueled appliances.


----------



## fatboy (Sep 12, 2012)

And having hustled pizzas from a major chain, there is plenty of grease left, can't help but belive there is grease-laden vapors even in a conveyor oven.


----------



## globe trekker (Sep 12, 2012)

So, is a small counter-top type oven less of a potential fire

hazard than the traditional "assembled-components-and-into

-the-gas fired-large-oven" because of the 5mg/cm3 amount

(or less) of grease? Over time, and without attentiveness to

cleaning, what is the potential risk for fire?

IMO, not too many food serving establishments are

regularly cleaning completely the cooking appliances /

equipment.

.


----------



## Coder (Sep 18, 2012)

Sorry for the thread hijack but, I think this thread is a perfect place to see if anyone else has been faced with my latest scenario. Small 6' x12' burrito, burger and hot dog trailers that are set up to cook, grill, bake (no frying yet) and whether or not do they require Type I hoods with fire suppression. The 2009 IMC & Commentary, Section 507.2.1, Last paragraph of the commentary says " This chapter does not require exhaust hoods for cooking equipment or appliances installed outdoors where the grease-laden vapors, etc., discharge directly to the outside atmosphere, nor does this chapter intend to regulate cooking appliances installed in vehicles or towed trailers (see definition of Commercial cooking appliances) So my question is do I require them to have a Type I hood with fire suppression because they are grilling burgs and dogs and frying bacon? Any input would be appreciated. Eric


----------



## cda (Sep 18, 2012)

Not unless you can do it under a health permit, or have admened the code to include vehicles


----------



## Coder (Sep 18, 2012)

Those were my thoughts as well. Anybody else run into this scenario?


----------



## pwood (Sep 18, 2012)

i don't eat at or enforce the codes for anything on wheels.


----------



## mtlogcabin (Sep 18, 2012)

Health department regulated. Units are pretty small they are constantly attended when in use and not a great loss if a fire occurs. The one or two people can exit the door or over the counter.


----------



## Coder (Sep 18, 2012)

pwood said:
			
		

> i don't eat at or enforce the codes for anything on wheels.


:lol: I like that mantra! Can i use it?



			
				mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Health department regulated. Units are pretty small they are constantly attended when in use and not a great loss if a fire occurs. The one or two people can exit the door or over the counter.


Can I use this too?  Thanks for the input gents. It is nice to know I am not alone in this world of code controlled chaos. :cheers I'll be back soon with something else to discuss I'm sure.


----------



## codeworks (Sep 24, 2012)

if it's in a trailer (food prep trailer) or mobile kitchen unit, it ain't outside. here, if it produces grease, it's got to have a type 1 hood with suppression. covered by health and fire


----------



## peach (Sep 30, 2012)

how does the hood know if it's over an electric cooking appliance or a gas fired one?  Does the fire know if it's an electric or gas cooking appliance?  I'm guessing no.


----------



## Charlie Radich (Feb 16, 2018)

Has anyone run into this issue pertaining to UL 710B? My Church puts on a Greek Festival once a year. We have been doing this for over 30 years. The Festival lasts 2 days for eight hours each day. It takes place in a concrete building. Precast conc. ceiling height is approx. 25'. We rent this building for two days. One of our food booths uses 2 fryers where we make Loukamathes, (fried donut holes). We fry these at approx. 375 degrees F. We keep portable fire extinguishers near these in the event of a grease fire. Last year the fire marshal told us after 30 years, we will need to install a hood over these fryers. This would not be practical since we don't own the building and we don't make a lot of money on this booth to pay for a commercial hood. The fire marshal did reference 2015 IFC section 609.2, exception. We would not have to provide a Type 1 hood if we can provide documentation that the appliance effluent contains 5 mg/m^3 or less of grease when tested at an exhaust flow rate of 500 cfm per U.L. 710B. Is there a test performed on a electric fryer by someone that can give this data? We checked with the fryer manufacturer and they said they don't do this kind of test on their appliances. Is there a specific cooking oil required to achieve this? Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## cda (Feb 16, 2018)

Wyoming??

Welcome


----------



## cda (Feb 16, 2018)

Charlie Radich said:


> Has anyone run into this issue pertaining to UL 710B? My Church puts on a Greek Festival once a year. We have been doing this for over 30 years. The Festival lasts 2 days for eight hours each day. It takes place in a concrete building. Precast conc. ceiling height is approx. 25'. We rent this building for two days. One of our food booths uses 2 fryers where we make Loukamathes, (fried donut holes). We fry these at approx. 375 degrees F. We keep portable fire extinguishers near these in the event of a grease fire. Last year the fire marshal told us after 30 years, we will need to install a hood over these fryers. This would not be practical since we don't own the building and we don't make a lot of money on this booth to pay for a commercial hood. The fire marshal did reference 2015 IFC section 609.2, exception. We would not have to provide a Type 1 hood if we can provide documentation that the appliance effluent contains 5 mg/m^3 or less of grease when tested at an exhaust flow rate of 500 cfm per U.L. 710B. Is there a test performed on a electric fryer by someone that can give this data? We checked with the fryer manufacturer and they said they don't do this kind of test on their appliances. Is there a specific cooking oil required to achieve this? Any help would be appreciated.




Cook outside the building, simplest fix.

More than likely you will not find the test.

It has to be done on the spefic brand and model you are using.


----------



## Charlie Radich (Feb 16, 2018)

cda said:


> Cook outside the building, simplest fix.
> 
> More than likely you will not find the test.
> 
> It has to be done on the spefic brand and model you are using.


 We've talked about that. Problem is that our Festival is in September and in Cheyenne, Wyo. September can mean wind, snow and cold temperatures.


----------



## cda (Feb 16, 2018)

Charlie Radich said:


> We've talked about that. Problem is that our Festival is in September and in Cheyenne, Wyo. September can mean wind, snow and cold temperatures.




Borrow a food trailer

Three sided tent with heater 

Ummmmm

Cook hot dogs??


----------



## mtlogcabin (Feb 16, 2018)

He is trying to require a code provision for a permanent installation to a temporary 2 day event which is not the intent for the requirement of Type I hoods.
He needs to look further into the fire code and work with you and not against you. It already sounds like a non-combustible building with extremely high ceilings would be a positive for this event. A doughnut fryer fire can easily be extinguished by replacing or dropping the lid. Is the lid attached to the fryer or can it be completely removed during the cooking operation? 
A Type I hood has to purposes to remove grease and provide an extinguishing system in the event of a cooking fire. I do not believe grease will be an issue during this 2 day event. There are numerous ways to extinguish a grease fire manually and automatically.  

He has the tools available to use to make your event safe without requiring a hood with an exhaust and suppression system

[A] 104.8 Modifications.
Whenever there are practical difficulties involved in carrying out the provisions of this code, the fire code official shall have the authority to grant modifications for individual cases, provided the fire code official shall first find that special individual reason makes the strict letter of this code impractical and the modification is in compliance with the intent and purpose of this code and that such modification does not lessen health, life and fire safety requirements. The details of action granting modifications shall be recorded and entered in the files of the department of fire prevention.


SECTION 403
PUBLIC ASSEMBLAGES AND EVENTS

403.1 Fire watch personnel.
When, in the opinion of the fire code official, it is essential for public safety in a place of assembly or any other place where people congregate, because of the number of persons, or the nature of the performance, exhibition, display, contest or activity, the owner, agent or lessee shall provide one or more fire watch personnel, as required and approved, to remain on duty during the times such places are open to the public, or when such activity is being conducted.


403.1.1 Duties.
Fire watch personnel shall keep diligent watch for fires, obstructions to means of egress and other hazards during the time such place is open to the public or such activity is being conducted and take prompt measures for remediation of hazards, extinguishment of fires that occur and assist in the evacuation of the public from the structures.

403.2 Public safety plan.
In other than Group A or E occupancies, where the fire code official determines that an indoor or outdoor gathering of persons has an adverse impact on public safety through diminished access to buildings, structures, fire hydrants and fire apparatus access roads or where such gatherings adversely affect public safety services of any kind, the fire code official shall have the authority to order the development of, or prescribe a plan for, the provision of an approved level of public safety.

403.2.1 Contents.
The public safety plan, where required by Section 403.2, shall address such items as emergency vehicle ingress and egress, fire protection, emergency egress or escape routes, emergency medical services, public assembly areas and the directing of both attendees and vehicles (including the parking of vehicles), vendor and food concession distribution, and the need for the presence of law enforcement, and fire and emergency medical services personnel at the event.

403.3 Crowd managers.
Trained crowd managers shall be provided for facilities or events where more than 1,000 persons congregate. The minimum number of crowd managers shall be established at a ratio of one crowd manager to every 250 persons. Where approved by the fire code official, the ratio of crowd managers shall be permitted to be reduced where the facility is equipped throughout with an approved automatic sprinkler system or based upon the nature of the event.


----------



## cda (Feb 16, 2018)

Can someone copy and paste

3106.5.2 of the 2018 IFC


https://codes.iccsafe.org/public/do...VENT-STRUCTURES-AND-OTHER-MEMBRANE-STRUCTURES


----------



## fatboy (Feb 16, 2018)

3106.5.2 Protection. Cooking equipment using combustible
oils or solids shall meet the following:

1. A noncombustible lid shall be immediately available.
The lid shall be of sufficient size to cover the
cooking well completely.

2. The equipment shall be placed on a noncombustible
surface.

3. An approved portable fire extinguisher for protection
from cooking grease fires shall be provided at a
location approved by the fire code official.


----------



## cda (Feb 17, 2018)

Or maybe to make him fell better, some how fashion something metal above the doughnut fryers and get a few of these and stick to it::


https://stovetopfirestop.com/


Just watch any flame, because they work.


----------



## north star (Feb 17, 2018)

*@ ~ @ ~ @ ~ @*

Or they could recommend having the Festival earlier in the summer...  

*@ ~ @ ~ @ ~ @*


----------



## Builder Bob (Feb 19, 2018)

Charlie, afraid not much help is coming fortwright on this..... Maybe a cart outside with fryers and food runners in would be an acceptable solution with Fire Marshal especially being temporary in nature.


----------

