# Fire safe home



## beach (May 27, 2010)

http://www.firesafehome.org/incentives-for-installing-residential-sprinklers/


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## FM William Burns (May 27, 2010)

Nice source, thanks Beach


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## beach (May 27, 2010)

And this: http://www.firesafehome.org/answers-for-home-builders/


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## peach (May 29, 2010)

Maybe I like residential fire sprinklers now... fire the firemen and sell the fire stations.  Thanks NFPA!


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## beach (Jun 1, 2010)

Yeah, because that's all that firefighters do.........


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## peach (Jun 1, 2010)

hey, rescuing kitties from the trees isn't in any fire budget anymore..

I believe some jurisdictions will look at fire sprinklers in every building as a good way to reduce operating costs.. just sayin'


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## beach (Jun 2, 2010)

Let's see....... we've required res. sprinklers for over twenty years, we added another new station and training center four years ago, we are in the process of hiring eight new firefighters as we speak...... when you or your family visits our town and get injured, our medics will help you, if you get caught in a riptide, our lifeguards will save you (they are a part of our fire dept.). When you are old, disabled or ill, we will transport you.

As far as rescuing cats from trees....... have you ever seen a cat skeleton in a tree????

Ahhhhh, the uninformed........ jus' sayin'

Did I mention that we have required  res. fire sprinklers for over twenty years?


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## FM William Burns (Jun 2, 2010)

LMAO Who's the first called in an emergency............
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 317

	

		
			
		

		
	
 Yep, call us we'll come  

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## beach (Jun 2, 2010)

"Yep, call us we'll come"

Pick up the phone, push the nine and then the one and then the one again, and we'll be there in 5 - 8 minutes!!!!!!


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## peach (Jun 2, 2010)

5-8 minutes?  won't the residential fire sprinkler put the fire out by then?

Worked for a building department that got pulled under the fire department (mostly political)... I'm not as uninformed as you think, beach.


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## beach (Jun 2, 2010)

You missed the point....... 5-8 minutes for a call, ANY call, not just for fires. You are of the mind that firefighters sit in a lounge chair waiting only for fires when not retrieving cats from trees , hence the "uninformed" comment. If you were better informed, I'm certain you would not have made such a comment. Your point and opinion was that with res. fire sprinklers, the fire dept. would then reduce operating costs. As I stated before, we have required res. fire sprinklers for AT LEAST 20 years here, as well as neighboring cities. The empirical evidense shows that your statement is unfounded/uninformed. Working for a building dept. that "got pulled under" by the fire dept. does not automatically make a person informed regarding the emergency operations and manning of a fire dept.

As FM pointed out, whenever there is an emergency, the first thing people do is dial 911, regardless if there is a fire or not.


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## FM William Burns (Jun 2, 2010)

Kudos brother........I use to love the calls back on the beach I worked that we called "Life Saver" calls.  The old 92 year old woman who was lonely and called 911 complaining of SOB.  We use to carry packs of life saver candies to give them when we arrived and realized what was going on.  We would sit with them and talk and in time they would even bake us cookies etc.  Also loved the one where a older man use salt instead of suger........   I fondly remember those debates on RFS.  Yep, we just wait for the big one.  We (fire service) invented customer service way before Big Al from Phoenix started talking/teaching it in the early 90's.  I still love your grandfather's comment about those who wished they were......


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## beach (Jun 2, 2010)

We still get those calls FM! I like the term "lifesaver" calls! Funny, my grandfather's comment still stands..........obviously. As you said, customer service is the best!


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## peach (Jun 5, 2010)

I certainly understand the need for the fire service; however, if the paid firefighters are being paid to visit the elderly citizens it sounds like you need a VFD instead of a paid one.

It's a wonderful thing firefighters do, however not necessarily a good use of increasingly tight budget money...

Just sayin'


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## FM William Burns (Jun 5, 2010)

Since you continue and historically fail to see what the "fire service" is about and what functions “WE” perform, I’ll simply disagree. When you are old and misuse the emergency service system like thousands of elderly do it’s just part of our customer service just like gas odors or hoarders. 

I guess it’s sort of like that “buzz phrase” borrowed from “US” (first preventers) by the building inspector/departments and how they would like to see themselves as (people who can work with people despite the situation). 

If you care to fully understand how and why so many people respect and would like to be like us, please take the time to visit a “professional” or “combination” department and see what we actually do daily for what you taxpayers expect and demand of us.  It's not a bash on VFD  or getting into a VFD v. Paid since as you fail to also understand, expectations are far more different.  Look up Troy, MI or Sunrise, FL and see what services their "volunteer" departments provide and you'll see your "just sayin" statement holds no value.

If the opinion is based on an associate who is or was a volunteer or volunteers for some department and drives a PV with lightbars etc. you will continue to be mis-informed and comical on matters associated to fire prevention, science and operations.


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## peach (Jun 5, 2010)

Hey FM Burns..

My best fire inspector is and has been a volunteer fire fighter/driver/engineer.. and I've lived in areas that had ONLY VFD's. I absolutely see the value of the fire service.. Yes, I consider Volunteers as professional fire service as well.

There is a clear line between the building inspector function and the fire service function. I get it. We (the *professional* construction inspectors) look for initial minimum code compliance.. it's up to the fire inspector to make sure the provisions stay intact.. I get it.

On ALL commercial base buildings I inspect, I encourage the contractor and owner to get the first responding fire company involved during construction, so they understand the building... where the fire control room is.. where all the exits are.. how to manuever around the building.. every shift.. at least twice (once kind of at rough in.. and certainly at the final). We have found this particularly helpful if/when the fire marshal comes in and "*wants* this or that"... if the fire company is cool with the building, they'll tell the FM to back off. Seen it.. and the building owner is happy that I made that suggestion... I get it.

I don't want to run into a burning building; I'd much rather see passive measures in place (even in homes) to prevent/contain fires and alert the occupants to get the hell out, so the fire fighters can do their job.

Having said that, I still believe responding to a lonely senior is better served by Meals on Wheels VOLUNTEERS or other social workers, than having them abuse the emergency service.

I get it


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## peach (Jun 5, 2010)

Going back to the original article.. it says there's a reduced requirement for the number of responders and equipment.. and that one of the benefits to the property owner is a longer distance between fire stations... i.e.  Less need for the fire department.. (fewer personnel, less equipment, stations spaced further apart).

I question the lower insurance premium... last house I built, there would have been no reduction in premium to spend the extra money (of course, I was also on a well, so I would have needed a generator and ATS installed).. which drove the cost to the point I couldn't have afforded to build.. I passed.


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## FM William Burns (Jun 5, 2010)

Yes peach.........



> Peach says………. There is a clear line between the building inspector function and the fire service function. I get it.





> We have found this particularly helpful if/when the fire marshal comes in and "*wants* this or that"... if the fire company is cool with the building, they'll tell the FM to back off.


The fire marshal’s office and the inspectors within that office are or should be part of the construction acceptance process. Thankfully this is the case in our’s and many jurisdictions throughout the country where the jurisdiction values a pro-active approach in customer service. By saying that, these jurisdictions have historically seen lapses in fire prevenative minimum code requirements and subsequent suprises created by *SOME* professional construction/building inspector lapses with properly seeing the bigger picture and having a solid understanding of fire science applied to a specific structure. This coupled with the FD’s (the division of the FD in charge) obligation to retroactively require *MINNIMUM CODE REQUIRED* measures to address lapses creates the stereotypical impression offered above. If the fire prevention bureau is good they will never have a situation where any suppression personnel will *EVER* tell them to “back off.” 



> happy that I made that suggestion... I get it.


Not yet…………..since good FD’s with their (fire prevention divisions) and their *hopeful* partnerships with building inspection divisions can look at their involvment and responsibilities as exampled:

(1) Prevent the fire's occurrence or spread through quality inspection and evaluation practices.

(2) Assuring the capability of the public to escape an emergency event in all venues and facilities.

(3) Assuring responder's abilities to manage an incident with available resources.

(4) Assuring responders safe return from service to their communities. 

just to mention a few and since fire suppression is a failure in prevention especially during the building development, inspection and acceptance phases. 

Suppression “companies” typically look at structures from a operational standpoint and the prevention divisions typically look at the structure’s bigger picture including operations and initiate *MINIMUM CODE REQUIREMENTS* as applicable.



> Having said that, I still believe responding to a lonely senior is better served by Meals on Wheels VOLUN





> TEERS or other social workers, than having them abuse the emergency service. I get it


Not really………. But I do agree with you here but that just isn’t the real world at least in the regions of the country I’ve worked. Just like the hypothetical cat in a tree. It’s part of the job and we respond to situations ranging from emergency to babysitting abandoned children left outside our bay doors.

Previously mentioned rationale in statements relating to the publication and the potentials are flawed since the intent and potentials will not eliminate existing firefighters/fire service or change their status. In applicable areas, future personnel numbers and station coverage will remain providing all existing services as present and more as historically demonstrated. In simple terms, the initiatives will allow less infrastructure/stations with PUD’s thus saving those taxpayers some increases. Regarding the insurance preminums………it’s 6 to 12% here with some companies and if we (fire service) can get our national politicians to finally pass the Sprinkler Incentive Act it will lower the pay back to five years instrad of the 20 it currently is in both residential and commercial applications.

BTW…..I have 17 multi state and national ceritifcations including “professional” FF/Driver/Officer/Inpsector/Investigator/Instructor; Expired NICET III and hopefully within the year CFPS. I also served as a principle TC member for NFPA LSC and 5000 for years. Please express my sincere thanks to your inspector for his/her service to the community served. 

*Beach..............sorry for jumping in but had to get a few things off my chest.*


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## beach (Jun 7, 2010)

Thanks Fm! You put things much more eloquently than I am capable of. What Peach doesn't realize, is that at one time, I was also a building inspector, so I'm aware of both sides of the unfortunate "fence"..... while I prefer the fire service as my chosen profession, I understand the building inspector side also. When I eventually worked my way in the fire service to Fire Prevention, I was amazed by the knowledge and professionalism of my peers in the bureau and the knowledge gleened from my previous life as a building inspector has helped me greatly. Ops telling the FM to "Back off"????? that's absurd! Fire inspectors, around here, inspect (and plan check) new construction too!

And Peach, here is a list of my ICC certs, if you want my fire certs.... I can post those too!

Building Inspector

Building Inspector CBC

Building Inspector UBC

Combination Inspector

Combination Inspector - California Codes

Combination Inspector - Legacy

Electrical Inspector

Electrical Inspector CEC

Fire Inspector II

Mechanical Inspector

Mechanical Inspector CMC

Mechanical Inspector UMC

Plumbing Inspector

Plumbing Inspector CPC

Plumbing Inspector UPC


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## mtlogcabin (Jun 7, 2010)

> As far as rescuing cats from trees.......


Its not a cat but the guys did help out with getting this one out of the tree. This was in Missoula Mt a couple of years ago

http://www.firerescue1.com/rescue/videos/501836-firefighters-help-bring-bear-down/

Relax and have a laugh its Monday


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## FM William Burns (Jun 7, 2010)

Yea, don't think a can of tuna would work for that........but you never know with Bears.

Your right about relaxing........ our "teamwork" responsibilities are stressful enough and I dislike Monday's especially after tornados, HS graduation and dealing with fire alarm issues at tenant buildouts. No dis-respect was ever intended on any party or profession but I've worked statewide and nationally to develop partnerships amongst code officials to better our collective customer service to those we work for and the separation thing just keeps working it's way back into discussions (at times). We all have vital duties and responsibilities and need to work together to better our respective professions and consistancy with code applications regardless. Thanks for the reminder, I'll just get back to drawing and coloring with crayons (inside the lines) since that relaxes me.


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## beach (Jun 7, 2010)

I saw that on the news a while back! Good one!


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## Alias (Jun 7, 2010)

peach said:
			
		

> hey, rescuing kitties from the trees isn't in any fire budget anymore..


We call Fish & Game to rescue the "kitties in trees" here.   

relax, it's Monday.........

Sue, sunny & 65, finally!


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## beach (Jun 7, 2010)

Are they big kitties?


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