# Travel distance with an exterior stair



## Amber (Apr 12, 2017)

I am working on a 3 story multi-family project.  There are 4 units on each floor that exit into an open to air stair that is nestled between the 4 units.  I have a plan, but I don't see the option for uploading images on this forum.  I am wondering when calculating travel distance, do I need to calc the distance from the far corner of the 3rd story unit and include the distance down the open stair?  My understanding is that you can stop your travel distance when you reach a rated enclosure.  I don't believe an exterior stair would count as that.  When I've done open stairs that are interior to the building I've understood that you need to calc your travel distance to include the travel down the open stair to the exterior door.


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## cda (Apr 12, 2017)

Welcome!!!!

So thoughts on living around Salida???


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## cda (Apr 12, 2017)

Paying to be sawhorse level lets you upload stuff,,,,plus helps support this site 

Some take a picture and can link it


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## cda (Apr 12, 2017)

Great article along with others will post answers

RGLA 


http://www.specsandcodes.com/articles/code_corner/The Code Corner No. 29 - Travel Distance.pdf


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## steveray (Apr 12, 2017)

New construction or existing? What codes do you use? You should be able to do 125' from the furthest point in the 3rd floor unit to the bottom of the stairs if that works for you...


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## Amber (Apr 12, 2017)

Thanks.  My stairs look like they qualify as an exterior exit stair per IBC 2012 1026, so looks like I can stop measuring my travel distance when I get to an "exit" which includes an exterior exit stair.  
For the guy that asked about Salida, it's a nice little town.  Can't go wrong with rural Colorado in my opinion!  Although it is a little far from any kind of real civilization.


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## cda (Apr 12, 2017)

Amber said:


> Thanks.  My stairs look like they qualify as an exterior exit stair per IBC 2012 1026, so looks like I can stop measuring my travel distance when I get to an "exit" which includes an exterior exit stair.
> For the guy that asked about Salida, it's a nice little town.  Can't go wrong with rural Colorado in my opinion!  Although it is a little far from any kind of real civilization.



Thanks kind of like to try that


I am thinking you have to make it to the bottom of the stairs


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## mtlogcabin (Apr 12, 2017)

You can stop your travel distance at the top if you can meet the following section's exceptions

Exception 1 does not apply you are over 2 stories
Exception 4 may work if you meet all 5 items

Simple solution rate the walls and doors next to the stairs and no windows with 10 feet of the stairs   


1026.6 Exterior stairway and ramp protection.
Exterior exit stairways and ramps shall be separated from the interior of the building as required in Section 1022.2. Openings shall be limited to those necessary for egress from normally occupied spaces.

Exceptions:

1.    Separation from the interior of the building is not required for occupancies, other than those in Group R-1 or R-2, in buildings that are no more than two stories above grade plane where a level of exit discharge serving such occupancies is the first story above grade plane.

2.    Separation from the interior of the building is not required where the exterior stairway or ramp is served by an exterior ramp or balcony that connects two remote exterior stairways or other approved exits with a perimeter that is not less than 50 percent open. To be considered open, the opening shall be a minimum of 50 percent of the height of the enclosing wall, with the top of the openings no less than 7 feet (2134 mm) above the top of the balcony.

3.    Separation from the interior of the building is not required for an exterior stairway or ramp located in a building or structure that is permitted to have unenclosed exit access stairways in accordance with Section 1009.3.

4.    Separation from the interior of the building is not required for exterior stairways or ramps connected to open-ended corridors, provided that Items 4.1 through 4.5 are met:

4.1.    The building, including corridors, stairways or ramps, shall be equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1 or 903.3.1.2.

4.2.    The open-ended corridors comply with Section 1018.

4.3.    The open-ended corridors are connected on each end to an exterior exit stairway or ramp complying with Section 1026.

4.4.    The exterior walls and openings adjacent to the exterior exit stairway or ramp comply with Section 1022.7.

4.5.    At any location in an open-ended corridor where a change of direction exceeding 45 degrees (0.79 rad) occurs, a clear opening of not less than 35 square feet (3.3 m2) or an exterior stairway or ramp shall be provided. Where clear openings are provided, they shall be located so as to minimize the accumulation of smoke or toxic gases.


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## RLGA (Apr 12, 2017)

If this is the only stairway (meaning you are complying with the requirements for stories with one exit) then, no, it must be measured to the level of exit discharge, since the entire path is a common path of exit travel. If you have two exit stairs, and they fully comply with all of the requirements as previously listed, then yes, travel distance stops at the first riser.


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## mtlogcabin (Apr 13, 2017)

RLGA
Just went through a class that covered this topic and the ICC instructor  explained that if you had a separation between the interior and the exterior stairs as required by 1022 then when you exit the building at any level onto the stairs you are now in the exit discharge and the common path and exit access distance requirements end.

What do you think?


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## cda (Apr 13, 2017)

mtlogcabin said:


> RLGA
> Just went through a class that covered this topic and the ICC instructor  explained that if you had a separation between the interior and the exterior stairs as required by 1022 then when you exit the building at any level onto the stairs you are now in the exit discharge and the common path and exit access distance requirements end.
> 
> What do you think?




Was the instructor talking a rated stairway verses open verses exterior stair ??
Or he said it did not matter?


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## RLGA (Apr 13, 2017)

Either he was mistaken (probably unlikely if he was an ICC instructor), or you misinterpreted what he presented (no offense; as an instructor and professor myself, I've had my difficulties trying to explain concepts to students and other professionals). Yes, the travel distance stops at an exit; however, the common path stops when two separate and distinct paths to two separate exits is reached. In a building with one exit, that is only achieved when an occupant reaches the exit discharge at grade. An exterior exit stairway is an exit for the entire run of stairs, like an enclosed exit stairway, and the exit discharge is the point where the exit ends.


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## CityKin (Apr 13, 2017)

RLGA is exactly right IMO.  Common Path extends down the stair if there is only one stair.


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## mtlogcabin (Apr 13, 2017)

1021 never mentions CPOT it only talks about exit access distance. I know the numbers are the same as CPOT however the language does not refer to it. 
He explained the exit access travel distance ends at an exterior stair that was protected as required by 1022. You are now at an exit as defined by code. He is a good instructor who has been around a long time. The class was on exterior wall protection not exiting specifically although he teaches classes on that also.

I just wonder if I misunderstood his logic or maybe he stumbled across another inconsistency with in the codes that should be ignored because it is contrary to the intent of 1021.2

1016.3 Measurement.
Exit access travel distance shall be measured from the most remote point within a story along the natural and unobstructed path of horizontal and vertical egress travel to the entrance to an exit.


EXIT. That portion of a means of egress system between the exit access and the exit discharge or public way. Exit components include exterior exit doors at the level of exit discharge, interior exit stairways, interior exit ramps, exit passageways, exterior exit stairways and exterior exit ramps and horizontal exits.


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## JBI (Apr 13, 2017)

Common path of travel ends at an 'exit', not an 'exit discharge'. 
The exterior stair is an 'exit' component, partly because you have the exterior wall between you and the danger. 
'Exit discharge' begins when you are at grade.


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## cda (Apr 13, 2017)

mtlogcabin said:


> 1021 never mentions CPOT it only talks about exit access distance. I know the numbers are the same as CPOT however the language does not refer to it.
> He explained the exit access travel distance ends at an exterior stair that was protected as required by 1022. You are now at an exit as defined by code. He is a good instructor who has been around a long time. The class was on exterior wall protection not exiting specifically although he teaches classes on that also.
> 
> I just wonder if I misunderstood his logic or maybe he stumbled across another inconsistency with in the codes that should be ignored because it is contrary to the intent of 1021.2
> ...




I take an exterior stair to mean that, you walk thru a door and you are outside on the stairway

Vs

Walking down a breezeway and going down stairs 


Will have to look at the definition


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## RLGA (Apr 13, 2017)

The mention of "Maximum *Exit Access* Travel Distance" in Tables 1021.2(1) and (2) has proven to be problematic. The 2015 IBC has changed the wording to read "Maximum *Common Path of Egress Travel *Distance," which is more specific and clearly explains the intent. IMHO, even if the table states "Exit Access" as indicated in the 2012 IBC, the CPET trumps.


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## mtlogcabin (Apr 13, 2017)

Thanks
We are still on the 2012 
Good change in the 2015


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## JBI (Apr 13, 2017)

RLGA said:


> The mention of "Maximum *Exit Access* Travel Distance" in Tables 1021.2(1) and (2) has proven to be problematic. The 2015 IBC has changed the wording to read "Maximum *Common Path of Egress Travel *Distance," which is more specific and clearly explains the intent. IMHO, even if the table states "Exit Access" as indicated in the 2012 IBC, the CPET trumps.



_Common Path of Egress Travel_ is a defined term... "That portion of the _exit access _travel distance..."
CPET is a part of exit access, or in some cases all of exit access, but still ends at an 'exit' component.

The table (only one table, not two) in the 2015 IBC at Section 1017, Exit Access Travel Distance, is titled 'EXIT ACCESS TRAVEL DISTANCE' in both the first and third printings.

Then there is Table 1006.2.1, Spaces With One Exit or Exit Access Doorway, which has a portion titled 'MAXIMUM COMMON PATH OF EGRESS TRAVEL DISTANCE (feet)' that provides different distances based on either occupant load (where not sprinklered) or longer distances where sprinklered.


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## RLGA (Apr 13, 2017)

JBI, that seems to be logical and I think you guys have convinced me; but if that is the intent, then I think the code still requires further modification to make that intent clearer.


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## cda (Apr 13, 2017)

Check the handbook


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## JBI (Apr 13, 2017)

Ron, That's one reason defined terms are in parentheses, so we remember to apply them as intended/defined.

(Not parentheses... _italics! D'OH!_. Thanks Ron)


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## RLGA (Apr 13, 2017)

I assume you mean italics, but you're correct. I guess the limitation in number of stories is meant to limit the required travel down the stairs; thus, it is all starting to make more sense now. However, if the exterior stairs do not comply with with the requirements for exterior exit stairways, then they would be considered part of the exit access and CPET would apply. I guess it was my years of experience seeing apartments with exterior stairs without the "exit" protection clouding my viewpoint.


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## steveray (Apr 13, 2017)

Knowing what the OP can do would be a help...And if there are second stairs...

Ron.....MT spoke of protecting the Ext stairs in post #8


mtlogcabin said:


> Simple solution rate the walls and doors next to the stairs and no windows with 10 feet of the stairs



If the OP can't do that then it is back to square one ...


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## Yikes (Apr 14, 2017)

Amber, I know this isn't the original question you asked, but it sounds like you are trying to send the entire occupant load of 4 upper-story apartments down a single exterior exit stair, and that stair is the only stair serving those 4 apartments.
I think the IBC limits the upper story R-1 apartment area served by single stair to 10 occupants (Table 1006.2.1), which is max. 2000 SF of aggregate apartment space (Table 1004.1.2).  
In other words, if your 4 apartments average greater than 500 SF of area , then a single exit stair won't meet code (regardless of travel distance issues).


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