# Steel Beams in garage, wrap with gyp?



## Yankee (Mar 23, 2013)

Attached garage, when requiring gyp protection of framing members due to living space above, do you require steel beans to also be wrapped?


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## ICE (Mar 23, 2013)

Yes and probably several layers.


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## Yankee (Mar 23, 2013)

ICE said:
			
		

> Yes and probably several layers.


Code calls for one 5/8" type X on structural members supporting space above. How do you get several layers?


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## ICE (Mar 23, 2013)

Yankee said:
			
		

> Code calls for one 5/8" type X on structural members supporting space above. How do you get several layers?


I ask for it.


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## fatboy (Mar 23, 2013)

Yes, structural members must be protected, one layer 5/8" Type X here.


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## mark handler (Mar 23, 2013)

Some departments are still requiring one hour separation/protection in garages.

One layer of 1/2" or 5/8" does not provide that


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## Rider Rick (Mar 23, 2013)

The city I worked for required 5/8" type X on the bottom of the beam and 1/2" on the sides.


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## Yankee (Mar 23, 2013)

mark handler said:
			
		

> Some departments are still requiring one hour separation/protection in garages.One layer of 1/2" or 5/8" does not provide that


Was it called out in code as one hour separation, , , ever?


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## Yankee (Mar 23, 2013)

ICE said:
			
		

> I ask for it.


I'm sure you say "please" also : )


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## mark handler (Mar 23, 2013)

Yankee said:
			
		

> Was it called out in code as one hour separation, , , ever?


Yes under the old [1997] UBC, minimum 5/8-inch Type X gypsum board on walls and two layers on lid


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## fatboy (Mar 23, 2013)

Really? I don't recollect the two layers on lids. Was that a CA amendment to the UBC? I don't have my 97 UBC at home........


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## mark handler (Mar 23, 2013)

fatboy said:
			
		

> Really? I don't recollect the two layers on lids. Was that a CA amendment to the UBC? I don't have my 97 UBC at home........


As I remember it, you needed a one hour separation between between Group R, Division 3 and Group U. there was an exception that allowed the wall to have the 5/8" gyp to be applied to only to the garage side wall. But one layer on a horizontal plane does not provide one hour, thus you needed two layers on the horizontal plane [lid].


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## Rider Rick (Mar 23, 2013)

Mark,

Was it two layers of 5/8" Type X on the lid?


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## Yankee (Mar 23, 2013)

I thought fire ratings were only applicable to assemblies? Wouldn't the rest of the floor structure need to be called out as part of the assembly to have a rated floor system of 1 hour?


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## mark handler (Mar 23, 2013)

there are one hour floor ceiling assemblies

http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/fire-links/7301-ga-600-2009-fire-resistance-design-manual.html

GA FILE NO. FC 5406


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## mark handler (Mar 23, 2013)

Rider Rick said:
			
		

> Mark,Was it two layers of 5/8" Type X on the lid?


yes, when habitable space was above


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## mark handler (Mar 23, 2013)

One hour unrestrained beam

GA FILE NO. BM 1137 PROPRIETARY

http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/fire-links/7301-ga-600-2009-fire-resistance-design-manual.html

But the current RESIDENTIAL CODE TABLE R302.6 allows for

Not less than 1/2-inch gypsum board or equivalent


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## Yankee (Mar 23, 2013)

mark handler said:
			
		

> there are one hour floor ceiling assemblieshttp://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/fire-links/7301-ga-600-2009-fire-resistance-design-manual.html
> 
> GA FILE NO. FC 5406


. . . . yes, I know, thanks for the link. Did the previous code call for a "one hour floor/ceiling assembly", or for "two layers of gyp"?


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## mark handler (Mar 23, 2013)

Yankee said:
			
		

> . . . . yes, I know, thanks for the link. Did the previous code call for a "one hour floor/ceiling assembly", or for "two layers of gyp"?


As I posted before It called for a one hour separation, you cannot achieve that with one layer.


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## pete_t (Mar 23, 2013)

Only one layer of 5/8 was required on the garage side.

2001 CBC

*302.4 Fire Ratings for Occupancy Separations*. Occupancy

separations shall be provided between the various groups and di

visions of occupancies as set forth in Table 3-B. For required sep

aration of specific uses in Group I, Division 1 hospitals and

nursing homes, see Table 3-C. See also Section 504.6.1.

*Exceptions:*

	3.	 In the one-hour occupancy separation between Group R, Divi-

sions _[for SFM] 2.1, 2.2, 2.2.1_ and 3 and Group U Occupancies, the

separation *may be limited to the installation of materials approved for*

*one -hour fire-resistive construction on the garage side *and a self-clos

ing, tightfitting solid-wood door 1⅜ inches (35 mm) in thickness, or

a self-closing, tight fining door having a fire-protection rating of not

less than 20 minutes when rested in accordance with Part II of UBC

Standard 7-2, which is a part of this code, is permitted in lieu of a one-

hour fire assembly. Fire dampers need not be installed in air ducts

passing th rough the wall, floor or ceiling separating a Group R, Divi

sions _[sFM] 2.1, 2.2, 2.2.1_ and 3 Occupancy from a Group U Occu-

pancy, provided such ducts within the Group U Occupancy are

constructed of steel having a thickness not less than 0.019 inch (0.48

mm) (No. 26 galvanized sheet gage) and have no openings into the

Group U Occupancy.


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## mark handler (Mar 24, 2013)

pete_t said:
			
		

> Only one layer of 5/8 was required on the garage side. 2001 CBC
> 
> *302.4  See also Section 504.6.1.*
> 
> ...


*2001 CBC based on the 1997 UBC  *

*And You cannot achieve a one hour horizontal separation with one layer*

*Unless you can show an approved assembly that allows one layer, I do not know of one*

*It's a moot issues because the code now allows 1/2", done deal.*


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## mark handler (Mar 24, 2013)

U.S. Home Structure Fires

U.S. Fire Administration’s National Fire Incident Reporting System show that in 2006-2010:

Cooking equipment was the leading cause of home structure fires  and home fire injuries.

Smoking was the leading cause of civilian home fire deaths.

Heating equipment was the second most common cause of home fire fatalities.

*less than 5% of all fires in one- and two-family residences originated in the garage.*

Home fires:

Cooking equipment

Heating equipment

Intentional

Electrical distribution and lighting equipment

Smoking materials

Clothes dryer or washer

garage

*with less than 5% of all fires in one- and two-family residences originated in the garage, Money is better spent elsewhere*


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## Rick18071 (Mar 24, 2013)

doen't CA have a residental code or is the CBC for everything?


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## Daddy-0- (Mar 24, 2013)

We require 5/8 underside and 1/2 sidewalls but only if garage has living space above.


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## mark handler (Mar 24, 2013)

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> doen't CA have a residental code or is the CBC for everything?


As of 2011, the State has the CA Residential Code which is a "Modified" 2009 IRC

That's why I said the issue of "one hour" is Moot.

"moot"......of little or no practical value or meaning; purely academic.


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## Yankee (Mar 24, 2013)

mark handler said:
			
		

> As of 2011, the State has the CA Residential Code which is a "Modified" 2009 IRCThat's why I said the issue of "one hour" is Moot.
> 
> "moot"......of little or no practical value or meaning; purely academic.


It is moot for this discussion, but what is not "moot" (for many who may be reading this), is that a "fire rating" is not given to ONE material a "fire rating" is only given to an "assembly" (i.e. a floor/ceiling assembly with all the components, a wall assembly with all the components). The term "thermal barrier" when used with for instance gyp "1/2" gyp has a 15 minute thermal barrier) is NOT a "fire rating". And one must be clear as to what constitutes a fire rating or some other requirement such as a thermal barrier.


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## mark handler (Mar 25, 2013)

Yankee said:
			
		

> It is moot for this discussion, but what is not "moot" (for many who may be reading this), is that a "fire rating" is not given to ONE material a "fire rating" is only given to an "assembly" (i.e. a floor/ceiling assembly with all the components, a wall assembly with all the components). The term "thermal barrier" when used with for instance gyp "1/2" gyp has a 15 minute thermal barrier) is NOT a "fire rating". And one must be clear as to what constitutes a fire rating or some other requirement such as a thermal barrier.


What the previous UBC code called for aq one hour occupancy separation.

Are you happy?,

does it change anything?

No, It is MOOT.


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## steveray (Mar 25, 2013)

If you want to see people really look at you like you are an idiot......tell them they have to wrap the lally columns in that garage also......


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## Yankee (Mar 25, 2013)

steveray said:
			
		

> If you want to see people really look at you like you are an idiot......tell them they have to wrap the lally columns in that garage also......


I haven't seen a lally column in a garage in forever, all are clearspan here, one way or the other.So, do you have them wrap steel supporting structure such as beams and lally columns?


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## Yankee (Mar 25, 2013)

mark handler said:
			
		

> What the previous UBC code called for aq one hour occupancy separation. Are you happy?,
> 
> does it change anything?
> 
> No, It is MOOT.


Interesting the language previously posted, if read carefully, does make my point

2001 CBC 

*302.4 Fire Ratings for Occupancy Separations. Occupancy*

*separations shall be provided between the various groups and di*

*visions of occupancies as set forth in Table 3-B. For required sep*

*aration of specific uses in Group I, Division 1 hospitals and*

*nursing homes, see Table 3-C. See also Section 504.6.1.*

*Exceptions:*

*3.	 In the one-hour occupancy separation between Group R, Divi-*

*sions **[for SFM] 2.1, 2.2, 2.2.1 and 3 and Group U Occupancies, the*

*separation may be limited to the installation of materials approved for*

*one -hour fire-resistive construction on the garage side and a self-clos*

*ing, tightfitting solid-wood door 1⅜ inches (35 mm) in thickness, or*

*a self-closing, tight fining door having a fire-protection rating of not*

*less than 20 minutes when rested in accordance with Part II of UBC*

*Standard 7-2, which is a part of this code, is permitted in lieu of a one-*

*hour fire assembly. Fire dampers need not be installed in air ducts*

*passing th rough the wall, floor or ceiling separating a Group R, Divi*

*sions **[sFM] 2.1, 2.2, 2.2.1 and 3 Occupancy from a Group U Occu-*

*pancy, provided such ducts within the Group U Occupancy are*

*constructed of steel having a thickness not less than 0.019 inch (0.48*

*mm) (No. 26 galvanized sheet gage) and have no openings into the*

*Group U Occupancy.*



"in lieu of a fire-rated assembly" you may build  "one-hour fire-resistive construction on garage side"

Now, I am happy.


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## ICE (Mar 25, 2013)

All that verbiage and the thinking that goes with it gets you where?  You point at a steel beam and proclaim that it shall be protected.  You are asked what you expect for protection.  Two layers of 5/8" type X little lady and Shirley we're off to races.


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## steveray (Mar 25, 2013)

Yankee said:
			
		

> I haven't seen a lally column in a garage in forever, all are clearspan here, one way or the other.So, do you have them wrap steel supporting structure such as beams and lally columns?


I have to......


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## conarb (Mar 25, 2013)

I Actually had this happen recently, if you look at this picture you'll see where the engineer had one Valley hanging under another valley at the back of the forklift, that's in the garage wall, the W8x24 is capped with a ¼" plate but sticks by the little post over it by about 2". when the rockers covered the wall with 5/8" sheetrock they left that 2" sticking through, I told them to "Double up the 5/8 to cover it", they took that to mean "double the sheetrock" ignoring the cover part.  When the inspector arrived for

View attachment 684


the sheetrock nailing inspection I apologized, told him what happened and asked him to sign me off and he could check it on the next inspection, he told me that there was no need to cover it, just let it stick out.  When the rockers came back to do other things I had them put three more layers on it to get one layer to cover it up for aesthetic reasons, the garage is getting 5/8" all over and then  plastered with diamond coat.
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 684


/monthly_2013_03/2342.jpg.af7f463987139741cb3bdfb5fcb65939.jpg


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## Yankee (Mar 26, 2013)

ICE said:
			
		

> All that verbiage and the thinking that goes with it gets you where?  You point at a steel beam and proclaim that it shall be protected.  You are asked what you expect for protection.  Two layers of 5/8" type X little lady and Shirley we're off to races.


Like they used to say in engineering school, RTFQ before trying to answer it ICE.


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