# Purpose of the goosneck



## YFD797 (Jun 11, 2015)

What is the purpose of the goose neck on a fire escape?  Please add the code sections? I appreciate it.


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## steveray (Jun 11, 2015)

I don't have it for fire escapes per se, but I imagine it is the same for equipment ladders.....

306.5 Equipment and appliances on roofs or elevated structures. Where equipment requiring access and appliances are installed on roofs or elevated structures at a height exceeding 16 feet (4877 mm), such access shall be provided by a permanent approved means of access, the extent of which shall be from grade or floor level to the equipment and appliances' level service space. Such access shall not require climbing over obstructions greater than 30 inches (762 mm) high or walking on roofs having a slope greater than four units vertical in 12 units horizontal (33-percent slope). Where access involves climbing over parapet walls, the height shall be measured to the top of the parapet wall.

 Permanent ladders installed to provide the required access shall comply with the following minimum design criteria:

1. The side railing shall extend above the parapet or roof edge not less than 30 inches (762 mm).

The purpose would be to have something to hang onto as you transition on or off the ladder...I don't see anything in the IFC that actually requires it....


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## cda (Jun 11, 2015)

Ok my code book does not have a goose neck section

Can someone define and give an example of the goose neck


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## ICE (Jun 11, 2015)

cda said:
			
		

> Ok my code book does not have a goose neck sectionCan someone define and give an example of the goose neck


Try a cookbook.


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## mark handler (Jun 11, 2015)

cda said:
			
		

> Ok my code book does not have a goose neck sectionCan someone define and give an example of the goose neck


Ladder extensions


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## mark handler (Jun 11, 2015)

California Department of Industrial Relations

Subchapter 7. General Industry Safety Orders

Ladder Extensions. The side rails of through or side-step ladder extensions shall extend 3 1/2 feet above parapets and landings. For through ladder extensions, the rungs shall be omitted from the extension and shall have not less than 18 nor more than 24 inches clearance between rails (Figure 2). For side-step or offset fixed ladder sections, at landings, the side rails and rungs shall be carried to the next regular rung beyond or above the 3 1/2 feet minimum (Figure 3). https://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/3277.html


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## cda (Jun 11, 2015)

YFD797 said:
			
		

> What is the purpose of the goose neck on a fire escape?  Please add the code sections? I appreciate it.


Not sure about the code stuff

But just for safety during trying to get on and off a roof.

Have not seen a new exterior fire escape in a very long time

Also firefighters are instructed to extend a ladder pass the roof line,

So you can step down onto the roof


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## ICE (Jun 11, 2015)

There appears to be plenty of rules except the one that's missing.  I see these made from 3/16" x 1.5" bar stock.  They are tough one my hands and too flexible to suit me.

The safe type has a cage at the top.  The dangerous type top a parapet and there is a tall drop to negotiate.

The picture that Mark posted is not a goose neck.  A goose neck resembles a P but it will have square corners.


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## mark handler (Jun 11, 2015)

ICE said:
			
		

> The picture that Mark posted is not a goose neck.  A goose neck resembles a P but it will have square corners.


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## cda (Jun 12, 2015)

ICE said:
			
		

> There appears to be plenty of rules except the one that's missing.  I see these made from 3/16" x 1.5" bar stock.  They are tough one my hands and too flexible to suit me.The safe type has a cage at the top.  The dangerous type top a parapet and there is a tall drop to negotiate.
> 
> The picture that Mark posted is not a goose neck.  A goose neck resembles a P but it will have square corners.


Like this Canadian goose neck;;;;

https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/show_picture.pl?l=english&rais=https%3A%2F%2Fs3-eu5.ixquick.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fserveimage%3Furl%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.panelbuilt.com%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F252.jpg%26sp%3Da994b8264982da76f43e2a5fcac29572


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## cda (Jun 12, 2015)

Plus don't see to many "fire escapes" that go up to the roof, most come down to the street


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## mark handler (Jun 12, 2015)

cda said:
			
		

> Like this Canadian goose neck;;;;


I also have not seen one on a fire escape, but the purpose is the same, safety.


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## YFD797 (Jun 12, 2015)

Not what Im looking for. A very smart CEO challenged me to find out what the purpose is backed by the code section. I will post the answer when he tells me.


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## steveray (Jun 12, 2015)

Code section:   101.3 Intent. The purpose of this code is to ESTABLISH the minimum requirements to safeguard the public health, SAFETY and general welfare through structural strength, means of egress facilities, STABILITY, sanitation, adequate light and ventilation, energy conservation, and safety to life and property from fire and other hazards attributed to the built environment and to provide safety to fire fighters and emergency responders during emergency operations.

What do I win?


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## Builder Bob (Jun 12, 2015)

Ladder termination at roofs for fire escapes are not currently allowed by the fire codes.... See section 1104.16 Fire escape stairs.

Fire escape stairs shall comply with Sections 1104.16.1 through 1104.16.7.  ( section 1104.16.3, 1104.16.4, and especially 1104.16.6 should kill it)

1104.16.1 Existing means of egress.

 Fire escape stairs shall be permitted in existing buildings but shall not constitute more than 50 percent of the required exit capacity. 1104.16.2 Protection of openings.

 Openings within 10 feet (3048 mm) of fire escape stairs shall be protected by opening protectives having a minimum 3/4-hour fire  protection rating.

Exception: In buildings equipped throughout with an approved automatic sprinkler system, opening protection is not required.

*****1104.16.3 Dimensions.

 Fire escape stairs shall meet the minimum width, capacity, riser height and tread depth as specified in Section 1104.10.

*****1104.16.4 Access.

 Access to a fire escape stair from a corridor shall not be through an intervening room. Access to a fire escape stair shall be from a door or window meeting the criteria of Section 1005.1. Access to a fire escape stair shall be directly to a balcony, landing or platform. These shall be no higher than the floor or window sill level and no lower than 8 inches (203 mm) below the floor level or 18 inches (457 mm) below the window sill.

1104.16.5 Materials and strength.

 Components of fire escape stairs shall be constructed of noncombustible materials. Fire escape stairs and balconies shall support the dead load plus a live load of not less than 100 pounds per square foot (4.78 kN/m2). Fire escape stairs and balconies shall be provided with a top and intermediate handrail on each side. 1104.16.5.1 Examination.

 Fire escape stairs and balconies shall be examined for structural adequacy and safety in accordance with Section 1104.16.5 by a registered design professional or others acceptable to the fire code official every five years, or as required by the fire code official. An inspection report shall be submitted to the fire code official after such examination.

****1104.16.6 Termination.

 The lowest balcony shall not be more than 18 feet (5486 mm) from the ground. Fire escape stairs shall extend to the ground or be provided with counterbalanced stairs reaching the ground.

Exception: For fire escape stairs serving 10 or fewer occupants, an approved fire escape ladder is allowed to serve as the termination.

1104.16.7 Maintenance.

 Fire escapes shall be kept clear and unobstructed at all times and shall be maintained in good working order.


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## mtlogcabin (Jun 12, 2015)

The IBC and the IEBC permit them under limited conditions on existing buildings. Nothing mentioned about roof access or "goose necks"

Not permitted under new construction

FIRE ESCAPES

3406.1 Where permitted.

Fire escapes shall be permitted only as provided for in Sections 3406.1.1 through 3406.1.4.

3406.1.1 New buildings.

Fire escapes shall not constitute any part of the required means of egress in new buildings.

3406.1.2 Existing fire escapes.

Existing fire escapes shall be continued to be accepted as a component in the means of egress in existing buildings only.

3406.1.3 New fire escapes.

New fire escapes for existing buildings shall be permitted only where exterior stairs cannot be utilized due to lot lines limiting stair size or due to the sidewalks, alleys or roads at grade level. New fire escapes shall not incorporate ladders or access by windows.

3406.1.4 Limitations.

Fire escapes shall comply with this section and shall not constitute more than 50 percent of the required number of exits nor more than 50 percent of the required exit capacity.

3406.2 Location.

Where located on the front of the building and where projecting beyond the building line, the lowest landing shall not be less than 7 feet (2134 mm) or more than 12 feet (3658 mm) above grade, and shall be equipped with a counterbalanced stairway to the street. In alleyways and thoroughfares less than 30 feet (9144 mm) wide, the clearance under the lowest landing shall not be less than 12 feet (3658 mm).

3406.3 Construction.

The fire escape shall be designed to support a live load of 100 pounds per square foot (4788 Pa) and shall be constructed of steel or other approved noncombustible materials. Fire escapes constructed of wood not less than nominal 2 inches (51 mm) thick are permitted on buildings of Type V construction. Walkways and railings located over or supported by combustible roofs in buildings of Type III and IV construction are permitted to be of wood not less than nominal 2 inches (51 mm) thick.

3406.4 Dimensions.

Stairs shall be at least 22 inches (559 mm) wide with risers not more than, and treads not less than, 8 inches (203 mm) and landings at the foot of stairs not less than 40 inches (1016 mm) wide by 36 inches (914 mm) long, located not more than 8 inches (203 mm) below the door.

3406.5 Opening protectives.

Doors and windows along the fire escape shall be protected with 3/4-hour opening protectives.


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## cda (Jun 12, 2015)

YFD797 said:
			
		

> Not what Im looking for. A very smart CEO challenged me to find out what the purpose is backed by the code section. I will post the answer when he tells me.


Ceo might want to restate the question

Or did he specify the ibc ??

I keep saying the idea is you step down from the ladder onto the roof.

They are to hang on to ??


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## mtlogcabin (Jun 15, 2015)

I believe you are looking at either an OSHA requirement for a fixed roof access ladder/stair or perhaps the IBC guard and handrail requirements for a stair and would apply it to a fire escape


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## cda (Jun 15, 2015)

I keep wondering if this is even a fire escape

Kind of like "fire exit ""     Still trying to find that one in the code


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## ADAguy (Jun 16, 2015)

Steveray, definition for stability vs structural strength, (lateral strength vs spans and point loads?)


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## FM William Burns (Jun 16, 2015)

> A very smart CEO challenged me to find out what the purpose is backed by the code section.


Chief Flynn I presume


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## cda (Jul 13, 2015)

YFD

So what is your answer????


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## ADAguy (Jul 17, 2015)

History: 1916 - ‎Building laws of New York

Definitions. Article 2. Sec. 2, Subd. 1 to 12 2 ... Fire Escape, Inside Stairs, Fire Tower New Tenements 15 Yard to Street New Tenements 23 Roof, Gooseneck Ladder New Tenements 17, 18 Fire Escapes. Additional Egress All Tenements 16,  ...

See New York City 1 RCNY §15-10 CHAPTER 15 FIRE PROTECTION

When fire-escapes are at the front no gooseneck ladder shall be required.

(v) Gooseneck ladder. The top balcony of every fire-escape shall be provided with a stair or with a gooseneck ladder leading from said balcony to and above the roof, except that no such stairs or gooseneck ladders will be required in the following locations or under the following conditions:

(1) On multiple dwellings with peak roofs having a pitch of more than twenty (20) degrees.

(2) Where fire-escapes are located on the fronts or in street courts of multiple dwellings facing upon the street.

Where a multiple dwelling does not face upon the street, such as a multiple dwelling located at the rear of a lot upon which there is another building, every fire-escape on such multiple dwelling shall be provided with a stair or gooseneck ladder as required above, except where the roof of such building has a pitch more than twenty (20) degrees as stated in exception (1) above. Except as provided in exceptions (1) and (2) above, every fire-escape on every hereafter erected or converted multiple dwelling, and every new fire-escape hereafter provided on every existing multiple dwelling shall be provided with a regulation stairway from the top balcony to the roof when such buildings exceed four (4) stories in height. In such multiple dwellings exceeding four (4) stories in height when due to special structural conditions which would not permit the erection of a stair from the top balcony to the roof or where the height from the top balcony to the roof may [sic] be such as to make the installation of a stair impractical, the Department of Buildings may accept a gooseneck ladder in lieu of a regulation stairway.

The top balcony of a fire-escape on every multiple dwelling not exceeding four (4) stories in height may be equipped with a gooseneck ladder.

Gooseneck Ladders

A gooseneck ladder is attached to the topmost fire escape landing, which extends straight up to the roof, over the roof line, and then bends down (like a gooseneck) and attaches to the roof structure. Normally, the ends of the ladder are lagged into the roof joist and are covered with the roof tar. In some instances, the neck of the ladder can also have two metal support arms, which are also tied into the roof joist or parapet for added support. Climbing a gooseneck ladder can be very dangerous. It is difficult when carrying a tool and almost impossible when carrying a saw. So, use a strap on the saw.

Here is Pate for you?


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