# Detectable warning at parking stall access aisle?



## Yikes (Nov 17, 2009)

I understand the Calif. Bldg Code and ADA require detectable warning (truncated domes) between a walkway and a vehicle roadway or parking aisle.

In a parking structure that has 5 accessible stalls, are the domes also required between the path-of-travel and the 8' wide accessible aisle for the van parking stall, and also each 5' aisle for the other accessible stalls?

I had an inspector tell me that a blind person might wander out of the elevator, go left across the blue-striped P.O.T., through the 8' van accessible aisle, and meander into the vehicle aisle.


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## JBI (Nov 19, 2009)

Re: Detectable warning at parking stall access aisle?

It'll probably be faster and cheaper to appease him than to debate it.   

I would agree that somewhere between the elevator and the vehicle roadway or parking aisle there should be a detectable warning, but if you have a blind person navigating a *parking structure*without being accompanied by a sighted person you may have a bigger problem than truncated domes (or the lack thereof)...


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## mtlogcabin (Nov 19, 2009)

Re: Detectable warning at parking stall access aisle?



> I had an inspector tell me that a blind person might wander out of the elevator, go left across the blue-striped P.O.T., through the 8' van accessible aisle, and meander into the vehicle aisle.


How did the blind person get into the elevator of a parking structure :?:  Did he drive to an upper level and park :lol:

Johns probably right cheaper to appease in CA


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## Gene Boecker (Nov 19, 2009)

Re: Detectable warning at parking stall access aisle?

The California regs are a lot more expansive that the ADAAG on this issue.  That being said, there isn't any specific requirement for the truncated domes at that location.

I have to go along with my esteemed colleagues - appeasement is the answer.

Maybe a solution would be to put the detectable warnings at the elevator opening.   :lol:


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##  (Nov 19, 2009)

Re: Detectable warning at parking stall access aisle?

Mtlogcabin,

It could happen.  I encounter blind people on the freeway almost every day.  Oddly enough, a lot of them are deaf too.


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## mtlogcabin (Nov 20, 2009)

Re: Detectable warning at parking stall access aisle?

Tigerloose, Can the deaf read your sign languaqe


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## JBI (Nov 20, 2009)

Re: Detectable warning at parking stall access aisle?

C'mon guys, the congenetally stupid may appear to be deaf and blind, but let's not insult the blind community...  :lol:


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## Mule (Nov 20, 2009)

Re: Detectable warning at parking stall access aisle?



			
				John Drobysh said:
			
		

> C'mon guys, the congenetally stupid may appear to be deaf and blind, but let's not insult the blind community...  :lol:


Ummmm, if one insults the blind community on here, how are they going to know it? Unless someone tells them!

Lord! I apologize for that!


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## JBI (Nov 20, 2009)

Re: Detectable warning at parking stall access aisle?

Mule - No you don't...  :lol:


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## rktect 1 (Nov 20, 2009)

Re: Detectable warning at parking stall access aisle?

Anybody else waiting for the crack of thunder and a bright flash.  :lol:


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## Gene Boecker (Nov 20, 2009)

Re: Detectable warning at parking stall access aisle?

Seriously?

There are reader programs that will read the text on the screen - turning text into audible sound.

That's how.

 :geek:


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## Yikes (Nov 20, 2009)

Re: Detectable warning at parking stall access aisle?

Back to the subject at hand:

I have no doubt it will be easier to comply than to argue.  However, this may be a (small) change order, and this is the kind of institutional client who tracks the "Errors and Omissions" for the sake of determining which architects they want to work with in the future.  So, since they're keeping score, I want to know who's right.


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## Examiner (Nov 20, 2009)

Re: Detectable warning at parking stall access aisle?

Accessible parking must have a safe accessible route.  A person who is deemed disable can go behind their own car to access a safe accessible route but no others.  Most parking structures I have been in do not even have a safe accessible route from the accessible parking stall.  Something that seems to be overlooked is the safe accessible route.  It amazes me that for some reason it is assumed to be permissible to traverse down the vehicular way to the accessible curb ramp or other route entry.  Without a drawing to review, it would be hard to advise where the detectable devices are to be located.  Does California require the guidance devices in the crosswalk as well?


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## Yikes (Nov 20, 2009)

Re: Detectable warning at parking stall access aisle?

Examiner - each stall is a safe, accessible route for the person using the stall.  For example, the route from the garage elevator is about a 20' path, away from any vehicle traffic, directly to the 8' aisle on the passenger side of the van accessible stall.  However, at no point on this route does a person walk over a detectable warning surface.

The inspector is wondering if a blind person could accidentally wander into the 8' aisle, and thence into the vehcile aisle.


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## JBI (Nov 20, 2009)

Re: Detectable warning at parking stall access aisle?

Blind means unable to see, not unable to reason.  :roll: Obviously, if they just travelled from a walkway, between two (or next to one) motor vehicles, in a parking structure, the only logical thing that would come next is moving vehicles :!: which they would HEAR     ... even a blind and deaf person could figure that out.  :idea:

I'm still trying to figure what a blind person is doing in a parking structure without a sighted person. :?:


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## Yikes (Nov 21, 2009)

Re: Detectable warning at parking stall access aisle?

John - the parking is subterranean, underneath the occupied space above.  The premise of the inspector is that a blind person might accidentally go downstairs (or down the elevator) to the parking level.


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##  (Nov 21, 2009)

Re: Detectable warning at parking stall access aisle?

Yikes,

In light of what you have just posted, I do see a valid concern.  The gasoline fumes and vehicle odors will tip off a blind person that they have entered a space with vehicles.  Truncated domes in the path leading from the elevator and entry door do seem logical.


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## mark handler (Nov 22, 2009)

Re: Detectable warning at parking stall access aisle?

You might look at this conversation

http://bcodes.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/t ... #623106023

and this

http://bcodes.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/t ... 8810957441

and this

http://bcodes.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/t ... 9610511641


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## JBI (Nov 23, 2009)

Re: Detectable warning at parking stall access aisle?

Yikes - Does the elevator keypad have braille (as required)?

I agree that some detectable warning is probably in order somewhere, I just think the BO is reaching on his request.

Does he require detectable at the access aisles in surface lots?

If so, then he is being consistent and that's OK (whether we agree with his interp or not).

If not, he's being arbitrary/capricious and that's NOT OK...  :roll:


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## Yikes (Nov 23, 2009)

Re: Detectable warning at parking stall access aisle?

We do have detectable warnings at the space between the stairs+ elevators and the drive aisle.  Keep in mind that the building official (the state architect) has reviewed and approved this.  It is the owner's independent ADA / Title 24 consultant (hired to help them avoid ADA suits) who has advised them that there is a (very circuitous, about 4 turns in 50') path that leads from the elevators, through an accessible parking stall aisle, and then eventually to a drive aisle, without crossing a detectable warning strip.


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## Gene Boecker (Nov 23, 2009)

Re: Detectable warning at parking stall access aisle?

The detectable warning would not be required outside of California.  The Access Board and Department of Justice both consider parking lots as other than hazardous vehicular paths.  Therefore, it isn't required in the "other 49."

That being said, I know that California requires detectable warnings at all parking lot crossings - regardless of where that is.  I've seen a Wal-Mart with a "yellow brick road" across the entire front of the store because a person could cross the parking lot at any location.  Without knowing the exact configuration of this particular elevator landing and parking stall configuration it's difficult to offer an opinion.  But I'd suggest bucking up and putting it in around the perimeter of the area leading to the parking drive and on the sides to the parking stalls.  Surround the elevator with yellow bumps.

(If he hired who I think he hired, it's no surprise that the recommendation is to install the strips.)     :|


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