# What do you guy's go with cheap 24 inch pools?



## MikeC (May 25, 2012)

I really get sick of being the "fun police".

IRC R105.2 states the following exemption: Prefabricated swimming pools that are LESS THAN 24 inches (610 mm) deep.  This is echoed by the Pennsylvania Uniform Construction Code

So, a 24 inch pool requires a building permit, right?

In Pennsylvania, our politicians elected to adopt only Appendix G from the IRC (2009 currently).  That defines a pool as: Any structure intended for swimming or recreational bathing that contains water OVER 24 inches (610 mm) deep.

Are you starting to see my problem?  Less than 24" is exempt.  More than 24" is a pool.  Guess what the most common depth of pool sold at the local department store is ..... you got it, exactly 24 inches.  These pools seem to require a permit, but I have no regulations or standards to follow.


----------



## ICE (May 25, 2012)

If they are exactly 24" deep then they are not over 24" deep and therefor are not a swimming pool in Pennsylvania.


----------



## MikeC (May 25, 2012)

ICE said:
			
		

> If they are exactly 24" deep then they are not over 24" deep and therefor are not a swimming pool in Pennsylvania.


PA Uniform Const. Code section 403.42 - Permit requirements and exemptions.

© A permit is not required for the exceptions listed in § 403.1(b) (relating to scope) and the following construction as long as the work does not violate a law or ordinance:

(viii) Prefabricated swimming pools accessory to a Group R-3 occupancy which are less than 24 inches deep, do not exceed 5,000 gallons and are installed entirely aboveground.

They have to be LESS THAN 24" deep to be exempted, but there are no codes to follow until they are MORE THAN 24", which leaves the most common Wally World pool in a grey area.  I guess what I need is an answer from another PA code official.

I realize I am probably splitting hairs here, but I am very new to this and recently had a city of 8,000 people thrown into my lap, which includes enforcement of the IPMC.  The previous guys were good guys, but lacked in the area of adminstration and any paper trails.  Inspections were never documented and permits were never closed.  I took over 2 weeks after one had retired and 2 days before the other one retired. Up until then, I was a firefighter who didn't know or care what ICC stood for.  The only ICC certs under my belt at that time were accessability and property maintenance.


----------



## Daddy-0- (May 25, 2012)

Mike C... welcome. Our administrator JAR is from Pennsyltucky. He should see this soon. Don't make too much work for yourself with the blow up pools. It is impossible to convince the owner of a $50 pool to put up a $3000.00 fence. These pools are very dangerous but by the time you get the owner to court....summer is over and the pool magically disappears. Compliance is next to impossible.

Sounds like you have your hands full with the new job. Good luck .


----------



## mtlogcabin (May 25, 2012)

Just tell them to keep the water below 24 inches as required by the statel


----------



## Papio Bldg Dept (May 29, 2012)

Welcome MikeC!  I hear your pain, and it is shared.  We have neighborhoods where they set even larger ones up in driveways and use them as neighborhood pools...unless we get a complaint we don't take action.  Even if we did catch them in non-compliance, our process is effectively giving them a seasonal variance, as it is taken down well before we can take action.  Our zoning recently lowered the cut-off height to 18 inches in an attempt to resolve the issue you are discussing.  It hasn't helped.


----------



## mjesse (May 29, 2012)

We've got this in our Village Code:

5-5-12: PROHIBITED POOLS: Inflatable pools and other portable or aboveground pools

holding water to a depth of over one foot (1') are prohibited. (Ord. 73-305-20)

mj


----------



## GBrackins (May 29, 2012)

mjesse said:
			
		

> We've got this in our Village Code:5-5-12: PROHIBITED POOLS: Inflatable pools and other portable or aboveground pools
> 
> holding water to a depth of over one foot (1') are prohibited. (Ord. 73-305-20)
> 
> mj


what is the definition of a pool? does that include hot tubs?


----------



## jj1289 (May 29, 2012)

We have also had people say they will not install more than 24 inches of water, but our state has ruled what is the pool capable of holding which would be to the top of the pool itself.  Section 105 states a permit is not required for pools less than 24 inches deep, it does not say the depth of the water but the depth of the pool which would be measured from the top of the ring down to the ground.

These pools are nothing but headaches and can be purchased for less than $100.

We have several residence leave the pools up year round, even though the instructions say to take them down.  Several years ago I sent a notice to a property owner for the installation of a pool without a permit and no safety barrier.  He got a hold of the media and when the media did their research they ended up turning the story around in a positive light, because of the number of drownings and near drownings.  So the media worked in our favor in this instance.


----------



## Coug Dad (May 29, 2012)

mjesse said:
			
		

> We've got this in our Village Code:5-5-12: PROHIBITED POOLS: Inflatable pools and other portable or aboveground pools
> 
> holding water to a depth of over one foot (1') are prohibited. (Ord. 73-305-20)
> 
> mj


That's harsh!


----------



## mjesse (May 29, 2012)

GBrackins said:
			
		

> what is the definition of a pool? does that include hot tubs?


_SWIMMING POOL (Pool) A receptacle for water, or an artificial pool of water having_

_a depth at any point of more than two feet (2'), intended for_

_the purpose of immersion or partial immersion therein of_

_human beings, and including all appurtenant equipment,_

_constructed, installed and maintained in or above the ground_

_inside or outside of a building._

Hot-tubs/spas are separate



			
				Coug Dad said:
			
		

> That's harsh!


Yeah, Take your fun somewhere else!


----------



## rshuey (May 29, 2012)

I was taught in a class once that all you need are 3 very important things to deal with property maintenance code issues :

1. A good camera

2. A rubber rat

3. A BB gun

One of those 3 will take care of your inflatable pool issues.


----------



## Kearney.200 (May 29, 2012)

Just got the 2012 ISPSC international swimming pool and spa code in the mail the other day ther is a chapter on these himeroid  pools


----------



## Francis Vineyard (May 29, 2012)

How big is 5000 gallons? There are 7.48 gallons of water in a cubic foot. A 12’ x 24’ pool 3’ deep holds about 6,500 gallons of water.

For round pools:

DEPTH    DIAMETER    GALLONS

3 Ft.         17 Ft.    ~    5100

3.5 Ft.     15.5 Ft.  ~    5000

4 Ft.        14.5 Ft.  ~    5100

4.5 Ft.     14 Ft.     ~    5200

Francis


----------



## MikeC (Jun 2, 2012)

How big is 5000 gallons?  It really doesn't matter if the pool is 24 inches or deeper.  In the event that you get a pool under 24 inches deep, it will need to be more than 20 feet in diameter to exceed the permit requirement threshold.  I am assuming that any pool this large would be professionally installed and proabably permanent.  In this case, it will probably be some sort of an engineered design.

Anyway, to get back to the 24 inch deep pools - I have decided that I will have to use the manufacturers installation instructions.  Not a big deal as most of these pools are owned by people who I regularly deal with for property maintenance issues.  A simple notice posted on the house to remove the pool or go apply for a permit usually gets the job done.


----------



## GCtony (Jun 13, 2012)

SWIMMING POOL (Pool) A receptacle for water, or an artificial pool of water having

a depth at any point of more than two feet (2'), intended for

the purpose of immersion or partial immersion therein of

human beings, and including all appurtenant equipment,

constructed, installed and maintained in or above the ground

inside or outside of a building.

Hot-tubs/spas are separate

"I ain't a swimmin' pool... it's intended for my dog."


----------



## mjesse (Jun 13, 2012)

GCtony said:
			
		

> SWIMMING POOL (Pool) A receptacle for water, or an artificial pool of water havinga depth at any point of more than two feet (2'), intended for
> 
> the purpose of immersion or partial immersion therein of
> 
> ...


 

Just make sure you post a "NO human beings allowed" sign


----------



## Dennis (Jun 13, 2012)

I think the NEC is a bit archaic with it's definition of whether the pool is storable which does not require anything much for wiring or permanent.  Why is a poll that is above ground and 42" deep or less considered a storable pool.  Have you ever seen anyone store a 42" above ground pool.  Ridiculous-- Now if the pool is above ground and store more than 42" it is subject to the same code requirements of a permanent pool unless the pool is a nonmetallic, molded polymeric walls, or inflatable fabric walls.


----------



## Dennis (Jun 13, 2012)

It is hard enough for us as trades people and inspectors to know when permits may be required but how is the basic homeowner going to know.


----------



## mtlogcabin (Jun 13, 2012)

650 gallon stock tank 24" x 96" works pretty well in Montana. Now add a wood fired pool heater http://www.instructables.com/id/Wood-Burning-Pool-Heater/ and you are good to go. Just make sure you have it accessible to the livestock. What swimming pool? :cowboy


----------



## Big Mac (Jun 21, 2012)

We have determined that the word "POOL" means the pol of water and not th ephysical characteristics of the structure.  Therefore if a pool of water is less than 24" deep and has a total capcity of less than 5,000 gallons.  No permit required.  Even if the sides of the pool are 24" high, what are the odds that the surface onwhich it is placed is perfectly flat?  If it is not, then the pool of water still does not average a 24" depth if filled to capacity.


----------

