# Building Collapse in Surfside, Miami-Dade County



## jar546

Very sad day in the Miami area with this collapse.  I am sure we will learn a lot more in the coming days.









						Surfside building collapse: At least 3 dead, 99 others missing
					

At least three people are dead and 99 others are unaccounted for after a 12-story residential building partially collapsed in southern Florida's Miami-Dade County.




					abcnews.go.com


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## jar546

From experience I can tell you that the NE corners of the buildings on the ocean are always in worse shape when it comes to concrete restoration projects as part of maintenance and upkeep of these buildings, many post-tension.


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## chris kennedy

That building doesn't appear to be post tension.


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## cda

“””The town of Surfside requires commercial and multi-family buildings to be recertified every 40 years. The process involves electrical and structural inspections for a report to be filed with the town. It was underway for the building but had not yet been completed, town officials said Thursday.”””

I wonder who keeps track when a building is due???   Seems like people would come and go/ retire a few times!!


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## jar546

Just read a report that this building was sinking since the 90's and it was documented.


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## jar546

chris kennedy said:


> That building doesn't appear to be post tension.


I did not see that it was.  Most post-tension buildings need more concrete restoration work than your average concrete building and we are finding deteriorated tendons.  Regardless of post-tension or not, the NE corners always have the most structural damage when a building is located on the ocean.


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## ICE

jar546 said:


> Just read a report that this building was sinking since the 90's and it was documented.


Makes ya wonder don't it


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## mark handler

Maybe they need to revise the 40 years to twenty years.....


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## mtlogcabin

2 mm a year since 1990 is 2.35 inches. I am not an engineer but that does not seem to be a lot if it was I would think who ever did the report would recommended the building is unsafe and be evacuated.


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## jar546

mark handler said:


> Maybe they need to revise the 40 years to twenty years.....


It is at 40 then every 10 after that.  I don't have that in my county.  Broward and Miami-Dade are the next counties below me and they have it.


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## Msradell

mtlogcabin said:


> 2 mm a year since 1990 is 2.35 inches. I am not an engineer but that does not seem to be a lot if it was I would think who ever did the report would recommended the building is unsafe and be evacuated.


The report I read said that the 2mm was documented from 1990-1999 but nothing had been documented since then. It didn't state however if it had quit sinking or if they had just stopped documenting it.


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## Mark K

Some continued settlement early in the life of the building is not necessarily uncommon or disturbing from a safety perspective.  How much settlement did the geotechnical report predict?  

If the settlement was uniform across the building it may cause problems with the entry and the plumbing but not likely the cause of the disaster. We have a building in SF with much more settlement that is being  retrofitted to reduce the rate of settlement but the building is understood to be safe.

I suspect that the problem will be found to be related to the choice of the structural system and some deterioration of key elements of the building.   But this is speculation until the engineers look into the cause.

Is the recertification with respect to the code upon which the building was permitted or the current code.  If the latter  maybe they should just say tear the building down after 40 years.

In California we do not require buildings to be recertified and we do not have this problem.  The recertification is also likely incompatible with the owners vested property rights.  The solution is not to reduce the recertification period.  

We should not jump to conclusions.  Let us give the engineers and the city a chance to identify the likely cause of the  failure.


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## Msradell

If any of you would like to read some of the technical discussion regarding this collapse here's a good discussion of it in an engineering forum: Miami Beach Champlain Towers collapse


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## cda

Champlain Towers South - 3D model by McClatchy - Sketchfab
					






					sketchfab.com
				







			https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252396233.html


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## ADAguy

Renzo Piano just completed a building next to the site, wonder what his geo recommended and what structural system he used. Also I have yet to see mention of the A & E who designed this building. 
Also wonder the columns were supported on piles or a mat?


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## rktect 1

Tragic and now it seems the CBO of surfside gave a good report after the engineers report of structural damage in 2018.  Not going to end well for this guy.


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## ADAguy

3 years after the fact?


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## jar546

rktect 1 said:


> Tragic and now it seems the CBO of surfside gave a good report after the engineers report of structural damage in 2018.  Not going to end well for this guy.


Where did you read that?


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## rktect 1

jar546 said:


> Where did you read that?





			https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252394393.html
		


Surfside official was sent disturbing report. He told board condo was ‘in good shape’​


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## rktect 1

*Surfside official was sent disturbing report. He told board condo was ‘in good shape’*

A month after an engineer’s report flagged “major structural damage” at Champlain Towers South, the *chief building official* for the town of Surfside told residents the condominium was “in very good shape,” according to minutes from a November 2018 board meeting obtained by the Miami Herald.

Ross Prieto, who left the post last year, had reviewed the engineer’s report, the minutes say. Records show condo board member Mara Chouela forwarded a copy to him two days earlier.

An email posted on the town’s website shows that Chouela sent Prieto two reports: the “structural field survey report” by engineer Frank Morabito of Morabito Consultants detailing the building’s structural deficiencies, and a mechanical and electrical engineering report by Thomas E. Henz. P.E. And it was Chouela who introduced Prieto at the meeting with five of the seven board members, along with property manager Alexandria Santamaria, condo board lawyer Marilyn Perez and interested residents who had gathered in the building’s recreation room.

But this past Saturday, Prieto told the Herald he didn’t remember getting the report.

He said he didn’t recall the email from Chouela, who had also shared cost estimates for the repair work. Prieto said he wasn’t aware that the town had received the report, which detailed “abundant cracking” in concrete columns, beams and walls.

“I don’t know anything about it,” he said. “That’s 2018.”

Asked Sunday about the November 2018 board meeting, Prieto declined to comment, citing the advice of an attorney.


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## jar546

As a Building Official, I don't like the way this is worded.









						40-Year Recertification Program
					

The Town of Surfside is a beautiful pedestrian-friendly oceanfront community located in South Florida's subtropical paradise. Surfside is home to nearly 6,000 residents and has an attractive residential neighborhood featuring multi-family condominium and apartment buildings, and a charming...




					www.townofsurfsidefl.gov


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## classicT

jar546 said:


> As a Building Official, I don't like the way this is worded.
> 
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> 40-Year Recertification Program
> 
> 
> The Town of Surfside is a beautiful pedestrian-friendly oceanfront community located in South Florida's subtropical paradise. Surfside is home to nearly 6,000 residents and has an attractive residential neighborhood featuring multi-family condominium and apartment buildings, and a charming...
> 
> 
> 
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> www.townofsurfsidefl.gov


I agree Jar. Puts the onus on the BO, and not the property owner.

"...must be recertified by the Building Official..."
"...the Building Department will send a notice..."


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## chris kennedy

chris kennedy said:


> That building doesn't appear to be post tension.



Appears I stand corrected. This is 20 mins long but worth the watch.


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## Mark K

The recertification form/program has multiple problems from the perspective of the engineer performing the inspections.

Engineers do not certify buildings,  rather they express professional opinions.  Certifications have great impact on professional liability insurance premiums. and increase liability exposure.  This does not prevent the engineer from identifying likely problem areas and making recommendations.

The document does not include any objective criteria as to what is structurally safe thus making it difficult for the engineer to make a statement regarding  structural safety.  Structural safety is often times very subjective.  Note that the building code does not require a statement that the building is structurally safe.

The discussion following the form can more appropriately be characterized a a rambling collection of random thoughts. 

The form does not give any indication of the criteria the building official will use in evaluating the report.  What constitutes good, fair, or poor condition when filling out the report form.


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## chris kennedy

This is an interesting pic. Note the slab punch through on the column. I may be just an electrician but I have installed so much conduit in these type of structures that the amount of reinforcing steel sticking out of this column just seems to be less than what I'm used to working around.


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## jar546

Perspective and discussion:


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## jar546

More information to digest and evaluate.  We may wait months for the official report on the cause of the collapse, but in the meantime, a healthy, professional discussion can take place.



			https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252421658.html


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## e hilton

L I


jar546 said:


> As a Building Official, I don't like the way this is worded.
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> 40-Year Recertification Program
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> The Town of Surfside is a beautiful pedestrian-friendly oceanfront community located in South Florida's subtropical paradise. Surfside is home to nearly 6,000 residents and has an attractive residential neighborhood featuring multi-family condominium and apartment buildings, and a charming...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.townofsurfsidefl.gov


I don’t see the issue.  The city sends a notice; the owner engages an architect/engineer; the engineer inspects the building using guidelines from Miami Dade county; if the inspection is not done in time or if the results don’t meet M-D guidelines the BO can declare it to be unsafe and pass it to the M-D County Unsafe Structures Board.  I would bet there would be a huge percentage of referrals to the county.  
.
That web page has horrible grammar.


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## Msradell

chris kennedy said:


> This is an interesting pic. Note the slab punch through on the column. I may be just an electrician but I have installed so much conduit in these type of structures that the amount of reinforcing steel sticking out of this column just seems to be less than what I'm used to working around.
> 
> View attachment 8022


I'm having a hard time picturing what that rebar was doing. I initially thought it supporters the deck but then the overall view shows that it wasn't. They certainly didn't pop out of that column and I'm sure the column have much more rebar in it than that based on some of the drawings we've seen elsewhere.


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## chris kennedy

I was right the first time. Not PT. Conventional double mat slabs.


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## rktect 1

Msradell said:


> I'm having a hard time picturing what that rebar was doing. I initially thought it supporters the deck but then the overall view shows that it wasn't. They certainly didn't pop out of that column and I'm sure the column have much more rebar in it than that based on some of the drawings we've seen elsewhere.


The columns look to be intact at 72/73.  I think that rebar is just pulled out from the parking slab that dropped four or five feet leaving the rebar looking like it is part of the column.


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## jar546

Mark K said:


> The recertification form/program has multiple problems from the perspective of the engineer performing the inspections.
> 
> Engineers do not certify buildings,  rather they express professional opinions.  Certifications have great impact on professional liability insurance premiums. and increase liability exposure.  This does not prevent the engineer from identifying likely problem areas and making recommendations.
> 
> The document does not include any objective criteria as to what is structurally safe thus making it difficult for the engineer to make a statement regarding  structural safety.  Structural safety is often times very subjective.  Note that the building code does not require a statement that the building is structurally safe.
> 
> The discussion following the form can more appropriately be characterized a a rambling collection of random thoughts.
> 
> The form does not give any indication of the criteria the building official will use in evaluating the report.  What constitutes good, fair, or poor condition when filling out the report form.


I may be able to shed some light on this process.  First, this program has been in place since the 70's in Miami -Dade and since 2005 in Broward County.  There is no shortage of large, experienced engineering firms that provide this recertification process.  Even without the recertification requirement, most buildings understand they require concrete restoration on a regular basis.  The initial findings give a base price and it typically grows in cost and complexity as the project starts and more is uncovered.  It is not uncommon to see a $1.2M bid to begin restoration and a G701 form at the end with a cost of $3.6M.  In one case the condition of the building was significantly worse as they started peeling back the layers and the restoration that started at $850K based on initial findings ended up at $9M when it was discovered that all of the railings had to be replaced along with most of the glazing.

With the recertification process, it is started by the engineering firm which often stays on the specify the work and the purpose of the Building Official is to ensure that the work discovered by engineering was performed through the permit process.  The municipality is there to enforce the requirements.


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## Pcinspector1

rktect 1 said:


> The columns look to be intact at 72/73. I think that rebar is just pulled out from the parking slab that dropped four or five feet leaving the rebar looking like it is part of the column.


Is it possible that the rebar from the column's attached to the floor slabs by tie wires? (guessing here) is not an adequate way to connect the slab to the post if they can pull away like this. The rebar looks like they have been stripped clean by the slab drop.


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## ADAguy

Fess up man!


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## ADAguy

jar546 said:


> Perspective and discussion:
> View attachment 8023
> View attachment 8024
> View attachment 8025
> View attachment 8026


 Good observation on the punch through. Column size and spacing seems light for 12 stories?


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## cda

Collateral damage,,,

Guess the city did not want to take the heat

Ex-Surfside building official who gave OK to tower in 2018 placed on leave​Rosendo "Ross'' Prieto, the former Surfside building official who found no significant issues with the Champlain Towers South structure less than three years ago, has been placed on leave from his current job as temporary building official for the Miami suburb of Doral, Florida, the Miami Herald and Wall Street Journal reported Tuesday


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## jar546

I guess your decisions follow you.


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## tmurray

Our job trades on public trust. If the public has no trust in us, we become meaningless to the public.


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## rktect 1

Being CBO is serious business. a lot of people don’t really understand this. you need to make big decisions and hopefully have the backing of your leaders.


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## Pcinspector1

Making someone cut their weeds is a higher priority in some communities, making sure rebar is installed to meet the plans before concrete is poured. not so much.

The blame game begins!


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## Sifu

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around how this happened without some sort of external catastrophic event.  Nothing I have read (of course I haven't read it all) seems like it would cause the collapse without significant warnings.  I think one of the engineers who evaluated it even said the same thing about the defects he saw.  My first thought was sink-hole, but I have seen nothing to indicate that.  It is telling that the apparent garage deck punch through occurred adjacent to the sections that collapsed but didn't have any apparent issues from above that level.  Maybe it was a result of the stress from the adjacent collapse.  I sincerely hope valid warnings were not ignored....by anybody.

I remember a building in South Korea that suffered a punch-through collapse.  The cause of that one is pretty easy to see.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampoong_Department_Store_collapse


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## jar546

In the news

Meanwhile, Surfside officials and engineers are concerned that recent construction of a nearby residential building may have contributed to instability at the Champlain Towers South and, according to one expert, could have potentially been “the straw that broke the camel’s back.”

“Construction of a neighboring building can certainly impact the conditions, particularly the foundation for an existing building,” Ben Schafer, a structural engineering professor and director of the Ralph S. O’Connor Sustainable Energy Institute at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, told ABC News on Tuesday. “A critical flaw or damage must have already existed in the Champlain Towers, but neighboring new construction could be the ‘straw that broke the camel’s back’ in terms of a precipitating event.”


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## ADAguy

Depends on who controls the gold in your community.


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## ADAguy

Sifu said:


> I am having a hard time wrapping my head around how this happened without some sort of external catastrophic event.  Nothing I have read (of course I haven't read it all) seems like it would cause the collapse without significant warnings.  I think one of the engineers who evaluated it even said the same thing about the defects he saw.  My first thought was sink-hole, but I have seen nothing to indicate that.  It is telling that the apparent garage deck punch through occurred adjacent to the sections that collapsed but didn't have any apparent issues from above that level.  Maybe it was a result of the stress from the adjacent collapse.  I sincerely hope valid warnings were not ignored....by anybody.
> 
> I remember a building in South Korea that suffered a punch-through collapse.  The cause of that one is pretty easy to see.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampoong_Department_Store_collapse


 How did I miss that one?


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## cda

I like the garage failed theory , than pulling down the building


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## jar546

cda said:


> I like the garage failed theory , than pulling down the building


So if I were to speculate based on news reports which included interviews and photographs, I would concur.  Column failures in the garage near and/or below the building.  Years of neglect and salt water intrusion.  Again, this is speculation and we know it will be months before a report is released.


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## jar546

Comment from engineering forum that really hits the mark when you see the amount of rebar that just pulled out of the concrete:



> The complete degloving of rebar is very concerning and makes me question the ductility of older reinforced concrete structures. There could be many reasons for this degloving; I don’t know how much how quickly a load is applied effects this, significant rust or millscale on the rebar, etc.


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## jar546

If you want to see the plans for the construction of Champlain Towers, here they are.



			https://www.townofsurfsidefl.gov/docs/default-source/default-document-library/town-clerk-documents/champlain-towers-south-public-records/8777-collins-ave-1979-plans.pdf?sfvrsn=bd2a1194_2


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## jar546

Part of the column schedule to take a look at .


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## jar546

Added penthouse same location as collapse.   Thoughts?


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## jar546

More food for thought by surviving eye-witness.

The initial failure was under Unit 111. Gabriel Nir, Unit 111's testimony:

_When part of a beachfront condominium building collapsed in Surfside, Gabriel Nir and his family escaped what would have been certain death.
"The first collapse happened, and me and my mom and sister went out," Nir told NBC 6 just hours after Champlain Towers South partially collapsed Thursday morning. "We see the collapse happening on the poolside and I saw a bunch of cars going inside the car garage, so I panicked, my mom panicked, everyone panicked."
Nir's first-floor apartment, unit #111, was above a planter and underground garage entrance ramp that engineers years earlier singled out as the most serious flaw in the building.
Proximity to that apparent failure point likely saved his and others’ lives.
"It was at that moment I saw the ground shaking. I felt something was happening," Nir said. "At that time, I had to run out. I told my mom, my sister, 'everyone, start running,' and so that happened. Everything started, out of nowhere, like cement, dust, sand coming out."
*The first signs of collapse minutes later, appearing right at this unit. Nir estimates perhaps two minutes after he reacted to the thunderclap of a beam or column likely falling beneath his unit.*
While that may sound like a delayed collapse to a layman, engineer Jason Borden says it’s an instant in engineering terms.
"It sounded like an immediate or spontaneous failure, which is unusual in a modern structure which is built with ductility, durability and redundancy in mind," Borden said. "So the fact that it failed as abruptly, as immediately as it did leads us to believe there had to be more than one thing going on there."
The time for warning and escape are built into designs, but there wasn’t much warning here.
"A freak accident, if you will, once in a lifetime for sure. I think possibly it was a collective of things, deterioration in the structure," said Yaniv Levi of Coast to Coast General Contractors. "It's very unfortunate and this is the first time I’ve ever seen this in my industry, ever."_


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## cda

The Washington Post reported that Stratton was on her fourth-floor balcony when she felt a tremor and saw the pool deck cave in


A woman missing in the deadly Florida condo building collapse called her husband as the tragedy unfolded — and said she saw a sinkhole where the pool used to be before the line went dead, according to a new report. 


"It was 1:30 a.m., I’ll never, never forget that," Mike Stratton, husband of Cassie Stratton, 40, told the Miami Herald.


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## Mark K

By focusing on the technical cause of the collapse I suggest that we are missing the bigger picture.

Yes there was deterioration but the ultimate cause of the collapse was that the building management/owners, even after being told that there were problems, failed to do anything to address the problems .

Stupidity is a fatal disease.


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## jar546

Mark K said:


> By focusing on the technical cause of the collapse I suggest that we are missing the bigger picture.
> 
> Yes there was deterioration but the ultimate cause of the collapse was that the building management/owners, even after being told that there were problems, failed to do anything to address the problems .
> 
> Stupidity is a fatal disease.



I could not agree more.  Would they have made the repairs sooner if they were not under a 40 year recertification which was coming up in 3 years?  Part of me thinks they would have ignored it and the other part thinks they delayed to buy time since they technically did not have to do anything until the 40 year cert was due.  They were already behind that schedule anyway.


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## cda

Well

There may have been a slight money issue.

One reason I am not into being part of a HOA, or condo type setting.

Each owner has to pay a portion, normally, and they may not have the money.


Champlain Towers South. Property owners were preparing to contribute their part in more than $9 million in projects.

I keep hearing different total units, from 136 up.

9 million dollars divided by 136….   Do the math.

Some people may not have the money


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## ICE

LA County has a similar problem with condo towers at Marina Del Rey









						Exclusive: County Orders Inspection Of Marina City Club Towers In Marina Del Rey After Tragic Florida Condo Collapse
					

Los Angeles County officials have ordered an inspection of the Marina City Club Towers, a condominium complex with three buildings in Marina Del Rey, after the tragic Champlain Tower collapse in Florida last week.




					losangeles.cbslocal.com


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## ICE

cda said:


> Well
> 
> There may have been a slight money issue.
> 
> One reason I am not into being part of a HOA, or condo type setting.
> 
> Each owner has to pay a portion, normally, and they may not have the money.
> 
> 
> Champlain Towers South. Property owners were preparing to contribute their part in more than $9 million in projects.
> 
> I keep hearing different total units, from 136 up.
> 
> 9 million dollars divided by 136….   Do the math.
> 
> Some people may not have the money


If the foundation is rotten I fail to understand how that could be repaired without starting over.


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## cda

ICE said:


> LA County has a similar problem with condo towers at Marina Del Rey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exclusive: County Orders Inspection Of Marina City Club Towers In Marina Del Rey After Tragic Florida Condo Collapse
> 
> 
> Los Angeles County officials have ordered an inspection of the Marina City Club Towers, a condominium complex with three buildings in Marina Del Rey, after the tragic Champlain Tower collapse in Florida last week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> losangeles.cbslocal.com



And San Francisco


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## e hilton

Sifu said:


> I remember a building in South Korea that suffered a punch-through collapse.  The cause of that one is pretty easy to see.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampoong_Department_Store_collapse


Interesting read.  The owner/builder modified the design, and fired the contractors who refused to build it his way.  When cracks started appearing he refused to close the store because he wanted the revenue from the shoppers … but he and his executives did evacuate.


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## Mark K

Just because there are foundation issues, and there is no proof that they were the cause at the towers, you do not need to tear the building down.  This is why you need engineers.

We will need to balance the heightened concern with the real risk.  Why are people only concerned with condominiums?  Why not rental properties?  Why not office buildings?  Why not tear down all buildings over 40 years old?

Yes there are issues but we should not  respond in a hysterical manner.


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## e hilton

Mark K said:


> Why not rental properties?  Why not office buildings?


Theoretically, rents reflect the cost of operating the buildings.  When a tenant leaves the new tenant pays the higher rent.  Also, commercial building usually have a CAM clause, and the building manager is not shy about effecting repairs to preserve the owners asset.  At least for commercial buildings that stay in desirable condition.


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## Sifu

Th
	

		
			
		

		
	






I walked by this building at lunch.  It is two years old, a 4 over 2 podium.  These cracks with obvious water intrusion are every 8', some over control joints, some not.  The exposed rebar occurs about every 4'.  This area is a cantilevered walkway on the podium level outside the parking garage.  What will this look like after 40 years?


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## jar546

Mark K said:


> Just because there are foundation issues, and there is no proof that they were the cause at the towers, you do not need to tear the building down.  This is why you need engineers.
> 
> We will need to balance the heightened concern with the real risk.  Why are people only concerned with condominiums?  Why not rental properties?  Why not office buildings?  Why not tear down all buildings over 40 years old?
> 
> Yes there are issues but we should not  respond in a hysterical manner.


I think it is obvious that engineers will be the ones to make the call when a building is structurally unsound unless it is already obvious such as a partial collapse and then engineers will be needed to determine if a building can be shored up and then repaired or needs to be razed.  I have had this situation multiple times and each time I called out an engineering firm for an evaluation and guidance as I am not an expert.

The 40 year recertification in Miami and Broward Counties are for all buildings other than single family and duplexes, townhouses, etc that are above a certain square footage regardless of the number of stories.  This would include office buildings, and much much more.


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## Pcinspector1

From some of your posted photos, I'm not so sure there should be humans staging where they are under other areas of the condo. If there was a possibility of movement, additional areas may need secured? I understand you have to get in there and move material, but without knowing the reason for the collapse, caution should prevail in some areas I would think.


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## Joe.B

Pcinspector1 said:


> From some of your posted photos, I'm not so sure there should be humans staging where they are under other areas of the condo. If there was a possibility of movement, additional areas may need secured? I understand you have to get in there and move material, but without knowing the reason for the collapse, caution should prevail in some areas I would think.


Just heard this morning that they suspended all search and rescue operations because of concern that there may be additional collapse.


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## Msradell

Joe.B said:


> Just heard this morning that they suspended all search and rescue operations because of concern that there may be additional collapse.


Yes, they quit recovery efforts for about 15 hours after they discovered that 1 of the columns that have not yet collapsed and shifted between 6 and 12 inches. Work resumed this afternoon however.


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## ADAguy

Is the firm or its principles still around, no word from any of them or the builder yet?


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## ADAguy

What does this say for the future of all the super highrises under construction and the switch to concrete vs steel.
Remember the Tower of Babel? There are material limits. Hammarabi said if it fails " you know the rest"


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## Msradell

ADAguy said:


> Is the firm or its principles still around, no word from any of them or the builder yet?


I read elsewhere that the builder is no longer in existence but I'm not sure about the firm or the principles.


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## cda

So there was another building official, after the last one that moved on,,,

Who was on the roof before the collapse.


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## ICE

Joe.B said:


> Just heard this morning that they suspended all search and rescue operations because of concern that there may be additional collapse.


I wondered about from the beginning.


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## Msradell

The latest is that CDI is going to demolish is still standing part of the building as soon as possible.  Possibly as soon as Sunday morning.


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## ICE

There is an article making the rounds that claims that the reinforcement between the slabs and the columns is less than what the plans specify.  I saw pictures that made me wonder about that but having not seen the plans I couldn’t be sure.….It just looked like there wasn’t enough rebar.


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## Msradell

According to a recent press conference the demolition is going to take place between 10 PM this evening and 3 AM tomorrow.


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## jar546

Msradell said:


> According to a recent press conference the demolition is going to take place between 10 PM this evening and 3 AM tomorrow.


Wow, a nighttime demolition?


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## cda

jar546 said:


> Wow, a nighttime demolition?



Done

Probably to get it done as soon and as safely to do it.

Plus maybe to keep crowd level way down.


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## jar546

Surfside demo complete.  They can continue recovery efforts.  I don't see how this can still be considered rescue as sad as that may be.


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## jar546

I believe she is the right woman for this job.  Why this is not a "recovery" just yet.


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## fatboy

Tough job, handling it as well as she can.


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## jar546

This is typical of an older building with a wrap around balcony when restoration is being performed.  The balconies are the most restored component as the are also the most vulnerable to moisture from the salty, sea air.  While many maintenance personnel just patch spalling, this is the true method of repair.


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## mtlogcabin

Architect Suspended Prior to Designing Surfside Condo
					

Years before William Friedman designed the Surfside condo, the architect was suspended over “negligently” designing another building’s sign pylons that toppled.




					therealdeal.com


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## jar546

mtlogcabin said:


> Architect Suspended Prior to Designing Surfside Condo
> 
> 
> Years before William Friedman designed the Surfside condo, the architect was suspended over “negligently” designing another building’s sign pylons that toppled.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> therealdeal.com


Did architects do structural engineering back then?


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