# break room stove exhaust



## Rick18071 (Sep 4, 2013)

2009 IMC 505 says domestic stoves only in dwelling units need exhaust. Doesn't a domestic stove in a B use break room need exhaust?


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## Gregg Harris (Sep 4, 2013)

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> 2009 IMC 505 says domestic stoves only in dwelling units need exhaust. Doesn't a domestic stove in a B use break room need exhaust?


Jump over to 507.2.3 Domestic Cooking Appliances used for commercial purposes


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## Rick18071 (Sep 6, 2013)

This domestic stove isn't being used for commercial purposes. It's in a break room just to make tea or warm up soup.


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## mark handler (Sep 6, 2013)

Gregg Harris said:
			
		

> Jump over to 507.2.3 Domestic Cooking Appliances used for commercial purposes


*There is a  difference between Domestic cooking appliances used in commercial buildings and Domestic cooking appliances used for commercial purposes.*

*These guys have nicely defined it*

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDUQFjAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sanantonio.gov%2Fsafd%2FFPForms%2FCI2008006.pdf&ei=xS0pUqvqHqi2igLdwYGADQ&usg=AFQjCNGSZ_Hf-kqzLzFMwM5aVcUs50H4Fw&sig2=Gz6QJhXjmSjfQo1P034crA&bvm=bv.51773540,d.cGE

*Yes in my opinion you need an exhaust. but not a type I or type II hood*


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## cda (Sep 6, 2013)

Electric or gas


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## Rick18071 (Sep 6, 2013)

Just found it in the cometary under IMC 505. Domestic stoves that are made for dwelling units but being used in comercal buildings but not for comercal use does not need a type 1 or type 2 system.

This code section is realy written bad. It should not say only in "dwelling units".


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## steveray (Sep 6, 2013)

When in doubt....go to the definitions....

COMMERCIAL COOKING APPLIANCES. Appliances used in a commercial food service establishment for heating or cooking food and which produce grease vapors, steam, fumes, smoke or odors that are required to be removed through a local exhaust ventilation system. Such appliances include deep fat fryers; upright broilers; griddles; broilers; steam-jacketed kettles; hot-top ranges; under-fired broilers (charbroilers); ovens; barbecues; rotisseries; and similar appliances.

******For the purpose of this definition, a food service establishment shall include any building or a portion thereof used for the preparation and serving of food.******

Are they preparing or serving food? I believe they always are....Unless they are just making shrinky dinks...


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## mark handler (Sep 6, 2013)

When in doubt....go to the definitions....

*COMMERCIAL COOKING APPLIANCES.* not Residential Appliances used in a commercial building

You guys are blowing this thing why out of proportion.

What is the hazard?

I have Never in the almost thirty years of dealing with codes and building departments has any building or fire official required a Type l or type ll hood in a office break room, that is just dumb.


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## cda (Sep 6, 2013)

mark handler said:
			
		

> When in doubt....go to the definitions....*COMMERCIAL COOKING APPLIANCES.* not Residential Appliances used in a commercial building
> 
> You guys are blowing this thing why out of proportion.
> 
> ...


I like that code section " that is just dumb"


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## steveray (Sep 6, 2013)

I don't have time to write it Mark....I just enforce it as written best I can.....Obviously not enough people are complaining to drive a code change....or clarification.....

That section could go right up there with "nearest the point of entrance" for service conductors.....no one wants to nail it down hard...


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## north star (Sep 6, 2013)

*~ ~ : ~ ~ : ~ ~*

Rick18071,

Does your stove application have the heating elements / grates on top,

or is this just a stove ?

In this jurisdiction, the FCO has & will not allow the top elements or

grates without an approved type of exhaust hood and suppression

system.....Yes, a suppression system !.......In the past, a Residential

grade fire suppression system has been installed for the stoves

that actually have the top elements.....*REASON:* Cooking fires are

the number one cause of fire events, whether they are at a

Residence or at a place of business.

*~ ~ : ~ ~ : ~ ~*


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## Gregg Harris (Sep 6, 2013)

mark handler said:
			
		

> *There is a  difference between Domestic cooking appliances used in commercial buildings and Domestic cooking appliances used for commercial purposes.**These guys have nicely defined it*
> 
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDUQFjAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sanantonio.gov%2Fsafd%2FFPForms%2FCI2008006.pdf&ei=xS0pUqvqHqi2igLdwYGADQ&usg=AFQjCNGSZ_Hf-kqzLzFMwM5aVcUs50H4Fw&sig2=Gz6QJhXjmSjfQo1P034crA&bvm=bv.51773540,d.cGE
> 
> *Yes in my opinion you need an exhaust. but not a type I or type II hood*


I agree completely on both counts Mark, I was only pointing out what is written


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## mark handler (Sep 6, 2013)

cda said:
			
		

> I like that code section " that is just dumb"


The code is not dumb, it is how it has been interpreted


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## steveray (Sep 6, 2013)

There is no interpretation Mark...

COMMERCIAL COOKING APPLIANCES. Appliances used in a commercial food service establishment

For the purpose of this definition, a food service establishment shall include any building or a portion thereof used for the preparation and serving of food

    It doesn't say for sale or for public consumption or any way to quantify it at all....I may not agree with it, I may even think it is dumb, but until someone changes the sections.....


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## mark handler (Sep 6, 2013)

steveray said:
			
		

> There is no interpretation Mark...COMMERCIAL COOKING APPLIANCES. Appliances used in a commercial food service establishment
> 
> For the purpose of this definition, a food service establishment shall include any building or a portion thereof used for the preparation and serving of food
> 
> It doesn't say for sale or for public consumption or any way to quantify it at all....I may not agree with it, I may even think it is dumb, but until someone changes the sections.....


*commercial food service establishment*

This is the same as smoke detectors in the den or living room, because you may fall asleep there... just dumb


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## mark handler (Sep 7, 2013)

Now I know another reason why California and many western states did not adopt the IMC

The stupidity does not appear in the UMC


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## peach (Sep 8, 2013)

When in doubt.. install a microwave instead.


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## mark handler (Sep 8, 2013)

peach said:
			
		

> When in doubt.. install a microwave instead.


You are assuming the microwave will not heat or cook food and which produce grease vapors, steam, fumes, smoke or odors ....

Oh wait, it does....hood required, per some on this board...


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## Rick18071 (Sep 8, 2013)

If they just took out "dwelling units" out of this section there would not be a probem.


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## mark handler (Sep 8, 2013)

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> If they just took out "dwelling units" out of this section there would not be a probem.


Some of us, do not have a problem now.....



			
				Rick18071 said:
			
		

> Just found it in the commentary under IMC 505. Domestic stoves that are made for dwelling units but being used in commercial buildings but not for commercial use does not need a type 1 or type 2 system. This code section is really written bad. It should not say only in "dwelling units".


As you posted "... does not need a type 1 or type 2 system...."

All they are doing is defining "domestic"


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## mark handler (Sep 8, 2013)

We all know the code is poorly written, always has been

We also know it is poorly interpreted, always has been. Can be fixed with education,but not with closed minds.....


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## BSSTG (Sep 9, 2013)

Greetings,

I want to know how we are requiring domestic use ovens to have exhaust hoods out of this section 505 no matter where they are used? Looks to me like the section is dealing specifically with downdraft exhaust.

SECTION 505 DOMESTIC KITCHEN EXHAUST EQUIPMENT

505.1 Domestic systems. Where domestic range hoods and domestic appliances equipped with downdraft exhaust are located within dwelling units, such hoods and appliances shall discharge to the outdoors through sheet metal ducts constructed of galvanized steel, stainless steel, aluminum or copper. Such ducts shall have smooth inner walls and shall be air tight and equipped with a backdraft damper.

BSSTG


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## mark handler (Sep 9, 2013)

BSSTG said:
			
		

> Greetings,I want to know how we are requiring domestic use ovens to have exhaust hoods out of this section 505 no matter where they are used? Looks to me like the section is dealing specifically with downdraft exhaust.
> 
> SECTION 505 DOMESTIC KITCHEN EXHAUST EQUIPMENT
> 
> ...


Which code? IMC? UMC?

What year?


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## Gregg Harris (Sep 9, 2013)

mark handler said:
			
		

> Which code? IMC? UMC?What year?


2003 IMC

Current verbiage for 2012 added a sentence at the end; "and shall be independent of all other exhaust systems."


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## cda (Sep 9, 2013)

BSSTG said:
			
		

> Greetings,I want to know how we are requiring domestic use ovens to have exhaust hoods out of this section 505 no matter where they are used? Looks to me like the section is dealing specifically with downdraft exhaust.
> 
> SECTION 505 DOMESTIC KITCHEN EXHAUST EQUIPMENT
> 
> ...


Yes section applies to downdraft appliances


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## Rick18071 (Sep 9, 2013)

break room stove exhaust

It says domestic range hoods AND domestic appliances with down draft exhaust.


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## BSSTG (Sep 9, 2013)

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> It says domestic range hoods AND domestic appliances with down draft exhaust.


Greetings

It doesn't say anywhere in the 09 IMC that a domestic range hood is required over domestic cooking equipment that I can find. It does say that if it is installed it shall meet the requirements of sheet metal ducts etc. The 09 IRC reads similarly. Now there is a section that requires exhaust to the outside for open top broilers which are common around here. Seems like most of those units are equipped to be downdrafted. Open type broilers are required to vent to the outside in M1505.1 09 IRC.

BSSTG


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## Gregg Harris (Sep 10, 2013)

BSSTG said:
			
		

> GreetingsIt doesn't say anywhere in the 09 IMC that a domestic range hood is required over domestic cooking equipment that I can find. It does say that if it is installed it shall meet the requirements of sheet metal ducts etc. The 09 IRC reads similarly. Now there is a section that requires exhaust to the outside for open top broilers which are common around here. Seems like most of those units are equipped to be downdrafted. Open type broilers are required to vent to the outside in M1505.1 09 IRC.
> 
> BSSTG


He posted down draft equipment.


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