# elevator access doors



## Dave L. (Jul 14, 2017)

I have a set of plans that show 2 man doors in a bathroom leading to the elevator shaft of a 2 story B occupacy building. Basically, on the back side of the elevator shaft on the 1st floor. I have not seen this before and reached out to the design professional. I reference *§BC713.7.1 Prohibited openings *Openings other than those necessary for the purpose of the shaft shall  not be permitted in shaft enclosures.

They responded back that the doors leading to the back side of the shaft through the men's room are necessary for service and maintenace and will have the same fire rating as the shaft. In addition the doors will be connected to the alarm system and you will not be able to pen them, other than service personell.

This sounds reasonable and does not appear to be a violation.


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## cda (Jul 14, 2017)

Welcome!!!

How did you find this wonderful site???


Canandaigua, guess they could not figure out if they were in US or Canada?


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## cda (Jul 14, 2017)

Dave L. said:


> I have a set of plans that show 2 man doors in a bathroom leading to the elevator shaft of a 2 story B occupacy building. Basically, on the back side of the elevator shaft on the 1st floor. I have not seen this before and reached out to the design professional. I reference *§BC713.7.1 Prohibited openings *Openings other than those necessary for the purpose of the shaft shall  not be permitted in shaft enclosures.
> 
> They responded back that the doors leading to the back side of the shaft through the men's room are necessary for service and maintenace and will have the same fire rating as the shaft. In addition the doors will be connected to the alarm system and you will not be able to pen them, other than service personell.
> 
> This sounds reasonable and does not appear to be a violation.





Interesting!

What is there to service, that can be accessed normally? I think that is a question also.
Not sure how the alarm system is keeping the doors secure??

See what replies you get


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## steveray (Jul 14, 2017)

Maybe an elevator with no pit?


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## Francis Vineyard (Jul 14, 2017)

Dave L. is the connection to the fire alarm the automatic closing smoke detection device?

*2015 IBC
713.7 Openings. *Openings in a shaft enclosure shall be protected in accordance with Section 716 as required for _fire barriers_. Doors shall be self- or automatic-closing by smoke detection in accordance with Section 716.5.9.3.

Commentary: The integrity of the shaft enclosures must be maintained with approved opening protectives (see Section 716). An example of a protected opening is illustrated in Commentary Figure 713.7. Doors provided into shafts shall be self-closing or, if automatic closing must be smoke activated in accordance with Section 716.5.9.3. Table 716.5 provides the fire protection rating required. There is no requirement for the doors to meet the smoke and draft control assembly testing, unless the shaft door also serves as an opening into a corridor or through a smoke barrier.




*713.7.1 Prohibited openings. *Openings other than those necessary for the purpose of the shaft shall not be permitted in shaft enclosures.

Commentary: In fire barrier walls forming shaft enclosures, openings are limited to only those necessary for the shaft to serve its intended purpose.


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## Francis Vineyard (Jul 14, 2017)

*716.5.9.3 Smoke-activated doors. *Automatic-closing doors installed in the following locations shall be automatic-closing by the actuation of smoke detectors installed in accordance with Section 907.3 or by loss of power to the smoke detector or hold-open device. Doors that are automatic-closing by smoke detection shall not have more than a 10-second delay before the door starts to close after the smoke detector is actuated:

8. Doors installed in shaft enclosures in accordance with Section 713.7.

Commentary: . . . The automatic closer is also to activate upon loss of power to the smoke detector and to the hold-open device. NFPA 72, as referenced in Chapter 9, contains criteria relative to the number and location of detectors necessary for door release service. NFPA 80 also provides criteria for closing devices required for a fire door.


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## cda (Jul 14, 2017)

It may just be monitored closed

Or have a mag lock on it with cypher pad to open??


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## Paul Sweet (Jul 17, 2017)

In addition to that high first step, how is the door prevented from being opened if the elevator isn't shut off?  It wouldn't be pretty getting pinched by a moving elevator.


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## tmurray (Jul 17, 2017)

cda said:


> Welcome!!!
> 
> How did you find this wonderful site???
> 
> ...


Sure hope it's US since he's quoting IBC not NBCC


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## ADAguy (Jul 21, 2017)

As they say, "it takes all kinds" to find a contray application.


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## PJC89 (Jul 31, 2017)

Agreed, provided that there is an opening protective in accordance with Section 716.

https://up.codes/viewer/general/int...hapter/7/fire-and-smoke-protection-features#7


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