# 2015 IECC/IRC Mandatory Blower Door Testing



## Coder (Dec 15, 2016)

Not sure how well received this requirement is going to be in my jurisdiction. Looking at adding to the first sentence of 2015 IECC Section R402.4.1.2 and 2015 IRC Section 1102.4.1.2 "Where required by the code official. Any thoughts? Thanks, Coder


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## JBI (Dec 15, 2016)

How can a visual bypass inspection insure 3 ach or less?


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## Rick18071 (Dec 15, 2016)

I would be fired if I required it.


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 15, 2016)

N1102.4.1.2 (R402.4.1.2) Testing.
The building or dwelling unit shall be tested and verified as having an air leakage rate of not exceeding 5 air changes per hour in Zones 1 and 2, and 3 air changes per hour in Zones 3 through 8. Testing shall be conducted with a blower door at a pressure of 0.2 inches w.g. (50 Pascals). Where required by the building official, testing shall be conducted by an approved third party. A written report of the results of the test shall be signed by the party conducting the test and provided to the building official. Testing shall be performed at any time after creation of all penetrations of the building thermal envelope.

I do not require a third party nor do I require a written report. The state requires an "Energy Sticker" be affixed to the electrical panel which has that information to be filled in. That is all we look for.

Scroll down to pg 14 for sticker
http://deq.mt.gov/Portals/112/Energ...NERGY NOTES_RESID_AUGUST 2016 w NEEA logo.pdf


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## conarb (Dec 15, 2016)

Mountain Man, what do you think of Zinke as Secretary of the Interior?  Will this change the way you are required to do things?



			
				Gizmodo said:
			
		

> As Secretary of the Interior, Zinke would be responsible for managing the country’s federal land and resources. He’d also be in charge of the National Park Service and the Bureau of Land Management, among other agencies. If confirmed, he would wield the power to reverse many of the previous administration’s environmentally friendly policies, like blocking oil and gas drilling on public land.
> 
> 
> Zinke received a 3 percent lifetime score from the League of Conservation Voters, a pro-environmental advocacy group. He opposed the EPA’s Clean Water Rule and Clean Power Plan, and voted against myriad environmental protection proposals. He’s also a supporter of the Keystone XL pipeline. ¹




¹ http://gizmodo.com/who-the-hell-is-ryan-zinke-trumps-pick-for-secretary-o-1790143483


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## JBI (Dec 15, 2016)

mtlogcabin, you emphasized the wrong part of the section. Third party is optional, testing is not.
"The building or dwelling unit *shall be tested and verified*..."
Are you suggesting that the AHJ should buy the equipment and conduct the tests?


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## CityKin (Dec 15, 2016)

I would make it optional if I could.  We've been requiring the duct-tightness test and blower door test for a couple of years here now.  There are several companies that have sprouted up that make a report to be submitted with the permit and conduct the tests.  I'm not sure how much it adds to the cost of each house, but if you are in an area where none of these companies exist, it would definitely be a hardship.


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## jwilly3879 (Dec 15, 2016)

Most of the contractors around here have never even heard of a blower door test. Just issued the first permit that will require the blower door test and the owner and contractor were not happy, especially when I suggested they test after the ceilings were in and before everything was closed up to find the major leaks before the final.


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## cda (Dec 15, 2016)

jwilly3879 said:


> Most of the contractors around here have never even heard of a blower door test. Just issued the first permit that will require the blower door test and the owner and contractor were not happy, especially when I suggested they test after the ceilings were in and before everything was closed up to find the major leaks before the final.




They sale code books where you work?? Don't they or they can look at one of yours


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## conarb (Dec 15, 2016)

If you do that you should do a ASHRAE 62.2 test as well with your blower doors.


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 15, 2016)

JBI said:


> mtlogcabin, you emphasized the wrong part of the section. Third party is optional, testing is not.
> "The building or dwelling unit *shall be tested and verified*..."
> Are you suggesting that the AHJ should buy the equipment and conduct the tests?



No I tell the contractors I do not want copies of the test just put the numbers on the required sticker.

I have no idea if a test is done or the numbers are real. I know the state does not enforce any portion of the energy code for residential homes so I will not require a blower door test if the state will not require one.




conarb said:


> Mountain Man, what do you think of Zinke as Secretary of the Interior?  Will this change the way you are required to do things?
> 
> ¹ http://gizmodo.com/who-the-hell-is-ryan-zinke-trumps-pick-for-secretary-o-1790143483



I think he would be a good pick. I do not believe he will just willy nilly reverse rules that are in place. He seems like the kind of guy who is methodical and analytical to resolving issues based on facts.


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## ICE (Dec 15, 2016)

https://resaveguide.lbl.gov/ashrae-standard-62-2

We're over the top with regulations.  Have been for too long.


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## conarb (Dec 15, 2016)

You're right Tiger, we have to do two blower door tests, one before frame inspection to be sure the building is sealed up and then the 62.2 test at completion to be sure enough air leaks in for humans to survive.  I guess the final work-around is to hard wire all fans full high until after final then the electrician comes back and revises the wiring.


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## Coder (Dec 16, 2016)

Good to hear I am not the only one that thinks that mandatory blower door test need not be mandatory. I can see it being a useful in some instances though.


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## JCraver (Dec 19, 2016)

Coder said:


> *Good to hear I am not the only one that thinks that mandatory blower door test need not be mandatory.* I can see it being a useful in some instances though.



Unless you're in IL - our State energy code doesn't give you any outs, you HAVE to have a blower door test done. 

My builders hate it.  Closest outfit to me that does them is an ~hr. away.  So not only are they paying too much for the ridiculous test, they're also paying for the guy to drive over here and back to do it.  Good stuff...


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## steveray (Dec 19, 2016)

The test is mandatory, how you verify the test is up to you....


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## Coder (Dec 20, 2016)

Should i say where or when? required by the code official.


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## cda (Dec 20, 2016)

I think I found a retirement job!!!


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## cda (Dec 20, 2016)

I can get equipment for $ 3000

What is the normal charge for the test???


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## JBI (Dec 20, 2016)

cda said:


> I can get equipment for $ 3000
> 
> What is the normal charge for the test???



Varies by location... probably well worth the investment in your area.


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 20, 2016)

A number of local building association's bought the equipment and offered 8 hour training classes @ $125.00 per person. Now the contractors can do their own testing.
Local guys who had invested into this "easy money" code required testing are a little pissed because I do not require third party inspections. Other local jurisdictions do


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## cda (Dec 20, 2016)

Darn under cutters


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## Coder (Dec 20, 2016)

cda said:


> I think I found a retirement job!!!


Funny I was thinking the same thing. Gravy train for someone around here if adopted as a mandatory requirement. Pretty sure is about a $300 deal for a couple hours of actual work.


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## tmurray (Dec 21, 2016)

I was an energy advisor certified by the provincial and federal government. I performed blower door tests as part of the energy audit. We usually ran 2.5 hours including a full inspection of the insulation levels of the home, measuring geometry and recording mechanical systems. Blower door tests take about 15 minutes and maybe 5 to run the numbers for ACH. I've done hundreds of them, so maybe I'm a little faster than most, but I doubt that it would take much longer than than that for most people.


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## conarb (Dec 21, 2016)

tmurray said:


> I was an energy advisor certified by the provincial and federal government. I performed blower door tests as part of the energy audit. We usually ran 2.5 hours including a full inspection of the insulation levels of the home, measuring geometry and recording mechanical systems. Blower door tests take about 15 minutes and maybe 5 to run the numbers for ACH. I've done hundreds of them, so maybe I'm a little faster than most, but I doubt that it would take much longer than than that for most people.


TMurray:

ASHRAE is a global organization, do you Canuks comply with ASHRAE and it's §62.2?  If you do blower door tests to be sure the building is sealed up how do you comply with 62.2 without a second blower door test? 



			
				Lawrence Berkeley Laboratories said:
			
		

> Is ASHRAE Standard 62.2 current best practice for ventilation? In a word, no. ASHRAE 62.2 is a standard that national experts could agree upon that sets a minimum standard for ventilation — not best practice, which would further customize ventilation rates based on factors such as number of occupants in a dwelling and strength of pollutant sources.
> 
> Meeting the ventilation requirements for ASHRAE Standard 62.2 will not always provide enough ventilation for a home. In these circumstances, ventilation rates need to be increased beyond the Standard.
> 
> ...




¹ https://resaveguide.lbl.gov/ashrae-standard-62-2


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## tmurray (Jan 3, 2017)

conarb said:


> TMurray:
> 
> ASHRAE is a global organization, do you Canuks comply with ASHRAE and it's §62.2?  If you do blower door tests to be sure the building is sealed up how do you comply with 62.2 without a second blower door test?
> 
> ...


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## conarb (Jan 3, 2017)

TMurray, so answer the question, or we'll send The Donald up there to straighten out Treudeau Jr.


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## tmurray (Jan 3, 2017)

conarb said:


> TMurray, so answer the question, or we'll send The Donald up there to straighten out Treudeau Jr.


 Oops, I answered in the quote tags, so it didn't show up correctly;

No, we use CAN/CSA F326-M or there is a prescriptive path under the code they can use. They can use ASHRAE 62 (not 62.2) if they want, but I've never seen it. We don't even blower door test under energy efficiency requirements. We have prescriptive air sealing requirements.

Important to keep in mind that air testing negatively penalizes complicated buildings. These types of buildings are more likely to have complicated air sealing problems.


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## conarb (Jan 3, 2017)

Thanks T Murray, if The Donald does come up there how about you going to him and saying: "Donald, after participating in The Building Codes Forums I've come to see how screwed up your building codes are, if you really want 'to make America great again' here is a copy of our codes, I grant you full permission to adopt them without copyright restriction"?  Then present him a book of all your codes.  If they work in a country still in The Ice Age they will certainly work here.


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## Coder (Feb 16, 2017)

Still in the process of adopting blower door testing or not. I had a discussion with a builder that owns one and he suggested I require it. But, if the test fails, instead of requiring the builder to go around and fix every leak, make it more of a learning experience for them so that they can gradually do a better job on the next building. If they want to fix the leaks that were identified it is up to them.  My thought is if the insulation and air sealing inspection is thorough enough, the blower door test is a waste of time and money.


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## steveray (Feb 17, 2017)

"We" don't have time to check everything on the sealing list....so we end up with the test....


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## Coder (Feb 17, 2017)

Cant adopt the mechanical ventilation requirements in the 2015 IRC/IECC without the blower door requirement. That is my conundrum.
Not unless i just assume that every house has less than 5ACH


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## Coder (Aug 1, 2017)

Had our first blower door test the other day. Contractor didn't do anything to the place that he hadn't already been doing. 1.9 ACH. The house was so tight that if you farted the toilet would flush.


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## my250r11 (Aug 1, 2017)

Coder said:


> Had our first blower door test the other day. Contractor didn't do anything to the place that he hadn't already been doing. 1.9 ACH. The house was so tight that if you farted the toilet would flush.



LMAO


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## linnrg (Aug 1, 2017)

if a fart causes that to happen the water utility folks are going to love that result!


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## linnrg (Aug 1, 2017)

I spent 4.5 years at a place called Shemya Alaska - the winds there are hurricane force - 100 MPH was moderate.
When the winds blew the water in toilet bowls swirled.  Every time I had R&R I would come back to dry traps that had been siphoned empty.
Trap Primers could not keep up so we had buildings that had sewer gas problems.
Go live somewhere where wind is that constant and you will discover all kinds of building problems.  for example air hoods need long downward facing entrances to keep from drawing in the moisture.  A wide open window during the wind might (given wind direction variations) not have water inside the building but a small crack will cause a flood (pressure).  Caulking is only good for a year or two.  Every roof no matter the material will not make it to its warranty period without leaks.
Oh - and flying in and out of there was an adventure every time.
I did not mean to sidetrack the thread.


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## tmurray (Aug 3, 2017)

Coder said:


> Had our first blower door test the other day. Contractor didn't do anything to the place that he hadn't already been doing. 1.9 ACH. The house was so tight that if you farted the toilet would flush.


We recently had one do 0.5 here.


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## conarb (Aug 3, 2017)

Just to show you the problems we builders encounter with this sealed-up house problem.  I build a home recently with expensive German windows that Tilt/Turn, I also put disappearing screens on them, I instructed the owner, a mechanical engineer by education to keep windows open, by code his house was sealed-up.  A year or so he called complaining that mosquitoes were biting his girls, they were getting through the screens so he wasn't going to open his windows, I told him that he had to get air in his house to call the county Vector Control, they would poison the mosquitoes in the creek on his property, not wanting chemicals on his property he refused, I then checked and Vector Control will put mosquito eating fish in his stream if he requested, he didn't want to do that so he's been living in a sealed-up house.

Recently he took a shower at 9:00 and got up at 12:20 and took picture water still beaded on his floor after running his 120 CFM "fart fan" for three hours. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





He then allowed the fan to run all night and took another picture at 8:00 in the morning:






I told him the only thing I could think to do was remove the little "fart fan" and install a 1,250 CFM remote kitchen fan on the roof, he doesn't want the noise and air movement of that even though the remote fan on the roof wouldn't be that bad.

At this point I have a tile setter coming over to clean the limestone with a surface-tension-breaking compound so the water won't bead up.  He has also bought two small dehumidifiers that are sitting on vanity counters but I don't think they are big enough to remove the humidity from sealed-up baths.

BTW, in almost all of my houses, including my own, I put electrically openable skylights over the showers or bath tubs and leave them open 24/7 to allow the humidity to escape and ventilate the houses, they have rain sensors that automatically close them if it rains, if that fails or any rain gets by I keep them over tubs or showers so no damage is done, after the rain is over I turn the switch to open them again to keep ventilation in the house 24/7.  I've done several expert reports on sick people in sealed-up "green" houses, sealing up houses in moderate climates is insane given all the chemicals we use in construction today.

Just think of us poor builders, I keep my cell phone by my bed so I am in contact 24 hours a day, I'm awakened by an email at 12:20 and get to look at the first picture, then the second comes in at 8:00 in the morning as I'm trying to eat breakfast, all because of crazy code requirements, while you code enforcers are sleeping away comfortably.


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## tmurray (Aug 4, 2017)

Is the only mechanical ventilation localized exhaust? If so, I'm surprised that you don't see more problems. I see an HRV in every new home build.

Being that this individual is a mechanical engineer, I'm quite surprised they doesn't understand psychometrics.

Also, if this is this person's biggest problem...what a blessed life they lead. I was recently the staff representative to one of our town's planning advisory committee meeting. This was a particularly difficult meeting regarding a fence to be located closer to the property line than otherwise permitted. It was opposed to by some "not in my back yard" people. After the public left, the members of the committee stayed to express their frustration with the meeting. One of the members looked at me and said: "small minds have small problems".


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## conarb (Aug 4, 2017)

T Murray said:
			
		

> Is the only mechanical ventilation localized exhaust? If so, I'm surprised that you don't see more problems. I see an HRV in every new home build.



T Murray:

About 17 years ago I went to a Building Standards meeting in Sacramento on an arbitration issue, while I was waiting my turn the subject of sealing-up homes came up and Panasonic was there with several people arguing that people didn't open windows anymore so ventilation systems should be required.  I had to think at the time: "Panasonic is spending all this effort and money to push fans, what do fans cost $75?"  Little did I know that they were laying the groundwork for requiring several thousand dollar HRV or ERV systems  in every home built.  If you see HRV systems up in the frozen wastelands what do these systems cost?  

BTW, on the way home I looked both in Sacramento as I left town and back in my town when I turned off the freeway and had to agree with them, I didn't see one window open in one residential home.  

As to my owner's problem humidity is a problem, I see that the silvering is already starting to come off the bottoms of the very expensive Robern medicine cabinets, each at $1,900 with three mirrors two behind flanking light assemblies, and I've got 6 of those medicine cabinets in this house.


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## tmurray (Aug 4, 2017)

conarb said:


> T Murray:
> 
> About 17 years ago I went to a Building Standards meeting in Sacramento on an arbitration issue, while I was waiting my turn the subject of sealing-up homes came up and Panasonic was there with several people arguing that people didn't open windows anymore so ventilation systems should be required.  I had to think at the time: "Panasonic is spending all this effort and money to push fans, what do fans cost $75?"  Little did I know that they were laying the groundwork for requiring several thousand dollar HRV or ERV systems  in every home built.  If you see HRV systems up in the frozen wastelands what do these systems cost?
> 
> ...



The homes you typically build would be in the 3 to 4 thousand range based on the increased labour and ductwork. I just installed one in my home a couple years ago for a thousand dollars. 2600 sq ft 2 storey. I did all the work myself, so that's only material costs.

The big thing installers need to understand is that even though houses are getting bigger, families aren't. The same ventilation for 4 people is needed regardless of the size of the building. The only thing that changes is the ductwork and labour to install it. 

The downside with HRVs and ERVs is the same as any mechanical system: they work great until you turn them off. People don't understand them and think they are a waste of money and then turn them off. I've been to a couple houses with indoor air quality issues and the first thing I noticed in them is that the owner turned off the ventilation system to save money.


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## conarb (Aug 4, 2017)

tmurray said:


> The downside with HRVs and ERVs is the same as any mechanical system: they work great until you turn them off. People don't understand them and think they are a waste of money and then turn them off. I've been to a couple houses with indoor air quality issues and the first thing I noticed in them is that the owner turned off the ventilation system to save money.



Yeah, a mechanical contractor I know told me that a tract builder installed them and he had disabled most of them in the entire tract, people paid him a couple of hundred a house to disable them because they were so expensive to run, so what's the purpose of sealing-up homes if it costs more to operate them than normal homes?  I remember Panasonic arguing that with volume that the price would come down, so early adopters would pay more but later they would become more economical, kind of like the arguments for solar panels today


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## mtlogcabin (Aug 4, 2017)

conarb said:


> If you see HRV systems up in the frozen wastelands what do these systems cost?



1200 sq ft home about $800.00 for a cheap one $2,000.00 for a good one plus installation is what the HVAC contractors tell us. Then again we are building homes for $85.00 per sq ft and up


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## conarb (Aug 4, 2017)

It just shows that like fire sprinklers a manufacturers' coalition can get their products required in the codes whether they work or not.  What's wrong with opening windows?  This customer with his mosquito problem is the first I've had to refuse to open windows, he didn't want to pay or listen to a 1,250 CFM roof mounted fan to extract the moisture, he sure wouldn't want to pay for a several thousand dollar ERV, I guess you guys use HRVs in cold climates and ERVs in hot climates? Where do you draw the line?  I was talking to another contractor and he said before his customers move in he tells them: "For Christ's sake, keep you windows open, this is a sealed-up house."  

I think my mechanical engineer customer proved that little "fart fans" are worthless, getting up in the middle of the night to take pictures and then taking pictures again in the morning.


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## tmurray (Aug 4, 2017)

conarb said:


> Yeah, a mechanical contractor I know told me that a tract builder installed them and he had disabled most of them in the entire tract, people paid him a couple of hundred a house to disable them because they were so expensive to run, so what's the purpose of sealing-up homes if it costs more to operate them than normal homes?  I remember Panasonic arguing that with volume that the price would come down, so early adopters would pay more but later they would become more economical, kind of like the arguments for solar panels today



Costs about $42 a year if they are on constantly. Most would be less than $20 a year. It's more about how wasteful the old air exchangers were and people not understanding the difference.


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## tmurray (Aug 4, 2017)

mtlogcabin said:


> 1200 sq ft home about $800.00 for a cheap one $2,000.00 for a good one plus installation is what the HVAC contractors tell us. Then again we are building homes for $85.00 per sq ft and up


http://www.kent.ca/kbs/en/product.j...=jump&navId=1770&prdId=7180032&catalogId=1770, 829 Canadian. But then again, we do use a lot of them and they building them just over in Quebec.


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## tmurray (Aug 4, 2017)

conarb said:


> It just shows that like fire sprinklers a manufacturers' coalition can get their products required in the codes whether they work or not.  What's wrong with opening windows?  This customer with his mosquito problem is the first I've had to refuse to open windows, he didn't want to pay or listen to a 1,250 CFM roof mounted fan to extract the moisture, he sure wouldn't want to pay for a several thousand dollar ERV, I guess you guys use HRVs in cold climates and ERVs in hot climates? Where do you draw the line?  I was talking to another contractor and he said before his customers move in he tells them: "For Christ's sake, keep you windows open, this is a sealed-up house."
> 
> I think my mechanical engineer customer proved that little "fart fans" are worthless, getting up in the middle of the night to take pictures and then taking pictures again in the morning.


There's nothing wrong with opening windows. I completely agree with you there. The issue is that people don't do it.


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## conarb (Aug 4, 2017)

tmurray said:


> http://www.kent.ca/kbs/en/product.j...=jump&navId=1770&prdId=7180032&catalogId=1770, 829 Canadian. But then again, we do use a lot of them and they building them just over in Quebec.


Link doesn't work.


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## tmurray (Aug 4, 2017)

conarb said:


> Link doesn't work.


Strange it works for me...https://www.venmar.ca/91-air-exchangers-evo5-500-hrv.html


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## conarb (Aug 4, 2017)

That worked, that's a HRV, what it it's 100° outside?  How does an ERV work and when do you use that?  In moderate climates do you install both a HRF and an ERV? 

A lot of commercial buildings from the 70s have no openable windows and constant blowing air, I have an engineer located in one of those and I hate to spend time with him with the constant air blowing, I once belonged to  gym and they had three of those large 3' diameter fans behind the stairmaster section, women were constantly turning them on and men were constantly turning them off, one guy announced that he was quitting and joining another gym, I asked him why and he said: "One word, fans", I understood.


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## tmurray (Aug 4, 2017)

HRVs just recover sensible heat - the heat that shows up on a thermometer - ERVs will recover both sensible and latent heat - basically humidity. Generally you guys would be looking at ERVs there and we keep our HRVs up here. The house here that recently blew a .5 ACH has a unit that is on most of the time. It is a low velocity unit that you cannot hear (I'm only 31, my hearings still fairly good) and cannot feel a draft. it's a lot more expensive that the unit I showed your, but even those units aren't really noisy. When I'm doing a final inspection I can turn one on and you can hear it if you try to. As far as a draft, you won't feel one unless you hold your hand within a couple inches of it.


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## tmurray (Aug 4, 2017)

As far as where the line is...I don't know. Someone who is much smarter than me will probably dream up some way of figuring that out, but it's probably the same line where you switch the vapour barrier from the inside of the house to the outside.


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## Paul Sweet (Aug 8, 2017)

How many HRVs & ERVs will last the life of the house?  Anything mechanical fails after a while, and few will be repaired when they do.


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## tmurray (Aug 8, 2017)

We have companies that just do that. We aren't a large population area by any means, about 20000 people. He have a contractor with a couple employees who just do replacements.


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## conarb (Aug 8, 2017)

Paul Sweet said:


> How many HRVs & ERVs will last the life of the house?  Anything mechanical fails after a while, and few will be repaired when they do.



It appears that most of these energy and green requirements drive maintenance costs up, insulated homes rot out a lot faster than uninsulated homes, multi-pane windows have to be replaced an average of every 20 years, I had a friend tell me that he was spending an average of $6,000 a year replacing the IG units in his 20 year-old home, he asked if they were saving that much energy?  I had to tell him no, that multi-pane windows don't save money, he is spending money to "save the planet".


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## tmurray (Aug 9, 2017)

That's really easy to say when you don't live somewhere that when people buy one of the uninsulated homes, they have to choose between being hungry or cold.


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## steveray (Aug 9, 2017)

tmurray said:


> That's really easy to say when you don't live somewhere that when people buy one of the uninsulated homes, they have to choose between being hungry or cold.



Don't buy the uninsulated home?.....The biggest part of the energy code I agree with is the posting of the predominant R values....At least that way people can shop apples to apples...


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