# No paved parking = no accessible parking?



## steveray (May 18, 2011)

I have a new building (towing garage) that somehow made it through P&Z with a gravel parking lot....I am sure this will not meet the building code, but wanted to get some input on this one.....(alternatives/ exemptions......Did I mention the applicant is on the Town Council.....wanna make sure I have all of my ducks in a row on this one!!!!

Thanks in advance!


----------



## fatboy (May 18, 2011)

wow, on Town Council, eek. I thought we had a thread that really kicked this around but the only thing I found was this;

http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/showthread.php?2711-accessible-route&highlight=accessible+parking

Not very definitive. I would be leary of it. But having said that, if it is stable and compacted on final inspection, document it, maybe note that this now becomes a maintenance issue to keep it compacted, then walk away. JMHO


----------



## mtlogcabin (May 18, 2011)

502.5 Floor Surfaces.

Parking spaces and access aisles shall comply with Section 302 and have surface slopes not steeper than 1:48. Access aisles shall be at the same level as the parking spaces they serve.

302.1 General.

Floor surfaces shall be stable, firm, and slip resistant, and shall comply with Section 302. Changes in level in floor surfaces shall comply with Section 303

Good luck with trying to require paved, concrete, pavers or whatever. I see the I-Codes lacking with regards to parking lot surfaces


----------



## Examiner (May 18, 2011)

All ground floors have to be accessible.

At least one parking stall must be VAN accessible and properly marked with access aisle.

Gravel for surface may not necessarily mean wheelchair issues.  There are other surfaces other than asphalt or concrete that can be used for accessible movement.

Town Council member may need to be educated on accessibility issues in IBC and you can mention ADA lawsuites could happen.  Tread lightly.  Politics and Code enforcement do not mix well in my area.  Good Ole Boy Politics.


----------



## rshuey (May 18, 2011)

2A will compact like concrete AND can be properly striped.


----------



## FredK (May 18, 2011)

I guess you could, but I never had someone fail to pave a parking and unloading area yet after they asked how they were going to maintain it.  Here's an example: http://www.arrowheadtrails.com/literature/crushedstone.html


----------



## steveray (May 19, 2011)

Thanks all!

The striping is more my concern....I am sure I am gonna get looked at like I have 2 heads when I tell him to paint his gravel...

Examiner...I do bring up the ADA lawsuits as much as possible, if nothing else to get people thinking and to know that there is more out there than what we are looking at...

Rshuey....I will try to nudge them towards 2A

   I know my boss will back me up, so I don't worry too much about politics (as long as my code is dead on) but I will not let him (or anyone else) outright cheat the code....but I do like to give options or info that can help solve problems...


----------



## mark handler (May 19, 2011)

TECHNICAL BULLETIN: GROUND AND FLOOR SURFACES

U N I T E D   S T A T E S   A C C E S S   B O A R D

http://www.access-board.gov/adaag/about/bulletins/surfaces.htm

*Materials such as gravel, wood chips, or sand, often used for outdoor walkways, are neither firm nor stable, nor can they generally be considered slip-resistant. *Thus, walks surfaced in these materials could not constitute an accessible route. However, some natural surfaces, such as compacted earth, soil treated with consolidants, or materials stabilized and retained by permanent or temporary geotextiles, gridforms, or similar construction may perform satisfactorily for persons using wheelchairs and walking aids.

Wheelchairs can be propelled most easily on surfaces that are hard, stable, and regular. Soft loose sand or gravel, wet clay, and irregular surfaces such as cobblestones can significantly impede wheelchair movement.


----------



## north star (May 19, 2011)

*# # # #*

steveray,

Does the Towing Garage facility "parking area / access road" have adequate

strength for any fire apparatus?.....This AHJ has an apparatus weighing in

at around 80k lbs.

From the `06 IFC, Section 503.2.3: *Surface.*

Fire apparatus access roads shall be designed and maintained to

support the imposed loads of fire apparatus and shall be surfaced

so as to provide all-weather driving capabilities.

rshuey ( and others ),

Please help educate me, ...what is " 2A "?.....Thanks!

*# # # #*


----------



## steveray (May 20, 2011)

NS....If the FM does not have a problem w/ it...I am OK...they have an existing body shop next door that has an adjacent towns truck in it right now seems to be ok....and we had all the boys down there when the building that is being replaced fell down under the snow this winter.....

Thanks Mark!....I imagine that I will be able to get them to hard surface at least one spot, if not only to comply w/ striping...couple more yards of concrete when they are pouring the floor maybe?


----------



## FredK (May 20, 2011)

steveray said:
			
		

> NS....If the FM does not have a problem w/ it...I am OK...they have an existing body shop next door that has an adjacent towns truck in it right now seems to be ok....and we had all the boys down there when the building that is being replaced fell down under the snow this winter.....Thanks Mark!....I imagine that I will be able to get them to hard surface at least one spot, if not only to comply w/ striping...couple more yards of concrete when they are pouring the floor maybe?


Shouldn't that be two since a van is the required first space and it requires an unloading area.


----------



## Rick18071 (May 20, 2011)

I let them use modified gravel that is tamped down. The striping never lasts long. One time after failing a final for some other reason after it was striped they had to strip it again a month later for the reinspect. As long as it is OK when I do the final my job is done.


----------



## Yikes (May 20, 2011)

Is the parking lot in question intended to be used by the public / visitors?  Or is is an impound / storage yard, to be used only by the tow truck drivers?

In any event, gravel CAN be made accessible, but as mark mentioned it usually involves some stabilization grid, as in these examples:

http://www.invisiblestructures.com/white_papers/Gravelpave2ADAF1951-99.pdf

http://www.invisiblestructures.com/brochures/GPGV_brochure.pdf


----------

