# Water damage from bad construction destroys homes and dreams



## mark handler (Nov 15, 2018)

http://www2.philly.com/real-estate/...ll-cutler-stucco-20181115.html?outputType=amp


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## conarb (Nov 15, 2018)

Philadelphia Enquirer said:
			
		

> It is not unusual for new homes to have small defects. But the sudden avalanche of waterlogged houses originally puzzled observers: How could so many homes built by so many different builders be experiencing the exact same problem at once?
> 
> According to Lstiburek, the answer was simple: It was “a perfect storm” — a combination that attorneys now allege came from pressure to build faster, an industrywide switch to lower-cost building materials, and little government and builder oversight. Add to that a climate like Pennsylvania’s, where the average annual rainfall is around 41 inches — and the potential for water damage was that much greater.
> 
> ...



The problem is energy efficiency and Green Code, these new homes are sealed up so they can't "breathe" to dry out and cheap materials like plastic housewraps and Flakeboard are actually required in many cases.


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## Keystone (Nov 16, 2018)

conarb said:


> The problem is energy efficiency and Green Code, these new homes are sealed up so they can't "breathe" to dry out and cheap materials like plastic housewraps and Flakeboard are actually required in many cases.



I view the issue as an outside in not an inside out, meaning the article stated stucco layers to thin, untrained low paid workers, etc... From my experience working with Toll they at least on the sites that I've been involved with do not build to a green building code. I do not see that as a Toll model unless it can financially substantiate and generate great monetary value.


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## Keystone (Nov 16, 2018)

I like a stucco structure but in this regard I'm old school and feel it belongs coated over masonry, not wood framing despite some of the great drainage planes available in the market.

I did enjoy the attorney calling out the lack of adequate building code that is to blame and to the attorneys point they are correct but when your company has staff architects and engineers I feel that argument becomes mute, those are the individuals called design professionals.

Although I was unaware of the 12 year period throughout Pa.  Good to know...


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## steveray (Nov 16, 2018)

conarb said:


> The problem is energy efficiency and Green Code, these new homes are sealed up so they can't "breathe" to dry out and cheap materials like plastic housewraps and Flakeboard are actually required in many cases.



OSB and plastic housewraps are NEVER required.....But people want to build cheaply and don't understand how to build or use the products they are using....See it every day...Unfortunately most Tons do not have the time to do a "progress" inspection for roofing or siding. We only do a final and what can you really see there...


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## conarb (Nov 16, 2018)

steveray said:


> OSB and plastic housewraps are NEVER required.....But people want to build cheaply and don't understand how to build or use the products they are using....See it every day...Unfortunately most Tons do not have the time to do a "progress" inspection for roofing or siding. We only do a final and what can you really see there...



Steve:

They can be required here in the Green Code, plastic wrap to air seal the building and flakeboard to "save the forests" since it's made by scraping up junk from the forest floor and grinding it up saving trees.  If you don't have a Green Code fight it with all you're worth if they try to adopt it. 

I understand the time issue, maybe it's time to require special Inspections on lath and flashing, this is an important issue and you guys are too busy with unimportant issues.


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## ICE (Nov 16, 2018)

There’s not a lot to inspect with lath. There can be a large area on the outside of a building but the opportunities to write corrections are limited by the small number of possible mistakes.  With tract work I might find just a few.  Others may start over.

At this time I am inspecting a small group of 27 dwellings.  The general contractor has quality control employees that tune up the operation continuously.  I’ve learned a thing or two and so have they.

As cocientous as they were, value engineering was right up there in importance.

It has been a long time since I worked in the civilian sector.  I do not recall “quality inspector” being a job title.  The last tract that I dealt with as an inspector didn’t have any. And they did get plenty of corrections.  I like the idea and every large builder should have two of me.  If for nothing else it would cut down the injury rate.


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## conarb (Nov 16, 2018)

ICE said:


> There’s not a lot to inspect with lath. T.



The "Vancouver Leaking Condo Crisis" cost over a billion dollars the last I heard, now we have buildings falling apart nationwide and there is nothing you can do about it?   Codes made us seal up buildings, so codes should be responsible for the costs of fixing them.



			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> The *leaky condo crisis*, also known as the *leaky condo syndrome* and *rotten condo crisis*, is an ongoing construction, financial, and legal crisis in Canada. It primarily involves multi-unit condominium (or _strata_) buildings damaged by rainwater infiltration in the Lower Mainland and Vancouver Island regions of coastal British Columbia (B.C.). In B.C. alone an estimated $4 billion in damage has occurred to over 900 buildings and 31,000 individual housing units built between the late 1980s and early 2000s, establishing it as the most extensive and most costly reconstruction of housing stock in Canadian history.
> 
> Similar infiltration problems have been reported in highrise buildings and schools, as well as in other climatic zones in Ontario and Nova Scotia, in the United States, and New Zealand. Since the start of the crisis it has been commonplace to see occupied buildings draped in scaffolding and protective tarps as the problems were assessed and repaired. The crisis has caused, as a major public inquiry concluded: "a litany of horrific experiences, personal tragedies, and dashed dreams" endured by homeowners¹




¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaky_condo_crisis


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## Sifu (Nov 16, 2018)

We conduct a wrap inspection and a flashing inspection.  But even with those, there are still many instances where the nature of a water shedding, overlapping, shingle type system must be installed at times and stages where it is just not practical to see.  Add to that the numerous places where flashing/sealing must occur, at best we look at a representative sample-and hope it is representative.


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## Paul Sweet (Nov 16, 2018)

Architectural designs have gotten so complicated with way too many cross gables, valleys, dormers, etc.  It's a wonder there aren't more problems.


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## Mark K (Nov 16, 2018)

If you believe that enough inspections can solve all problems you are living in a dream world

Quality construction requires that all parties share a common understanding of what should be and are motivated to making it a reality.  Without that you are playing a game of whack a mole.

At a certain point if those doing the work believe that the inspections are getting in the way they will actively conspire to defeat the inspectors.


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## ADAguy (Nov 16, 2018)

It comes down to:
1. profit
2. lack of "continous" supervision
3. Lack of adequate QC/QA
4. CM/Multiple Prime project delivery
5. Lack of experience
6. Lack of "pride"


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## Sifu (Nov 16, 2018)

Some of the most severe water infiltration problems I have seen were from missing kick-out flashing.  I can say I have personally called it out on hundreds of inspections (roof).  And the reason I look for it, aside from code and good practice, is because one of the houses I built back in the day was missing one and I had to tear down an entire two-story natural adhered stone wall from the outside in after only a few months.  I prided myself on my quality control but I missed it, but I never missed another one.  It would have been great if the roof contractor, gutter contractor, siding contractor, stone mason or even the inspector would have caught it, but they didn't, and it would be dishonest to blame any one of them more than myself.  This 2 dollar mistake became a 10,000 dollar mistake and as bad as I wanted to point fingers it was my responsibility.  I gotta say, it never even entered my mind to blame the inspector or the code.


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## my250r11 (Nov 16, 2018)

I did not see any of the window openings flashed properly in the time lapse or pictures.


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## Keystone (Nov 16, 2018)

Quality control, Toll does have QA rep's. I believe they cover a vast area and complete site visits as able to. Whatever homes in the development that are under whatever phase of construction they may be in are the homes that are viewed. I have noticed subtle differences over time such as the placement of rubber membrane or ice and water at corners of roof rakes and valley/hip overframing.


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## ICE (Nov 16, 2018)

I guess we have lost track of the past history of water damage. Thirty-five years ago a builder set up a test at an apartment complex being built in Elk Grove, Ca.  The arrangement was a tent that was taped to the building.  It held a powerful fan and water nozzles.  Water was pushed at a window in the building, for days and more days.  The goal was to prove that a given setup would keep out water.

T1-11 was installed with a 12" wide strip of building paper stapled to the back at the laps.  No other paper, Tyvek, Barricade was installed.  You can bet that some of the 12" wide paper never made it to the building.  The T1-11 was to be shot full of 8d at 4" apart at the seams.  So in reality it was 3".  I wonder how the building held up.  Thousands were built just like that.

T1-11 is awful.  I taped the thumb and forefinger om my left hand with duct tape.  I would layout the T1-11 the same way as drywall.  Much faster than a square and chalk line.  Got some nasty slivers. 

Another hack was shear.  Notice that I already said hack.  Everybody cuts out the doors and windows as they go.  No need for that.  Place full sheets....covering all but one door opening.  Then I go inside with a chain saw.  You'll want to make sure that trimmer nails are set or the chain might catch them.....rips them right out, it does.

That was so fast that I made piece work deals that the general regretted.  I had one tell me that I couldn't do that because an inspector would turn it down.....


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