# Processing Electronic Construction Documents



## jar546 (Jul 10, 2020)

Now that we have been 100% online for a few months and no one steps foot inside the building department, informative, eductional documents like this are appreciated.  This one was a collaborative effort between the AIA-Florida and BOAF (Building Officials Association of Florida).  It is relevant for anywhere but some of the particulars based on your design professional's state statutes may vary.  Enjoy!


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## steveray (Jul 10, 2020)

Thank You Sir!


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## jj1289 (Jul 10, 2020)

Good write-up and it definitely can be used anywhere.


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## ADAguy (Jul 10, 2020)

jj1289 said:


> Good write-up and it definitely can be used anywhere.



The "key" to successfully transitioning to electronic is shared platforms such as "Bluebeam" and Teams. We ( CA - state architect) transitioned last August, it takes some adjustment and continues to have tweaking required but what doesn't?
Timing allowed for teleworking (ahead of the virus) but you need high speed data to your homes to do so. Staff holds periodic Team meetings for lessons learned and sharing of issues as they arise.
The future is here.


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## Rick18071 (Jul 10, 2020)

Did the state or local need to pass a law to require all documents to be electronic? We still have a lot of (elder) architects that only do plans by pencil and not every thing needs to be done by an architect. Know one that doesn't own a computer! I think here in PA I'll be long gone before anything happens like this.


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## mark handler (Jul 10, 2020)

Thank You


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## mark handler (Jul 10, 2020)

Rick18071 said:


> Did the state or local need to pass a law to require all documents to be electronic? We still have a lot of (elder) architects that only do plans by pencil and not every thing needs to be done by an architect. Know one that doesn't own a computer! I think here in PA I'll be long gone before anything happens like this.


They can go to the reprographics company and have PDFs made, cheaper than prints.


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## jar546 (Jul 10, 2020)

Rick18071 said:


> Did the state or local need to pass a law to require all documents to be electronic? We still have a lot of (elder) architects that only do plans by pencil and not every thing needs to be done by an architect. Know one that doesn't own a computer! I think here in PA I'll be long gone before anything happens like this.



It is up to you if you choose to take the route of electronic submission only at which point either the municipalities and/or your employer would have to get with the 20th century and get a permitting software up and running.  There is no state law that mandates it but under the circumstances with COVID we mandated that it be 100% online submissions.  If we have older architects then they have to go with the times and modernize.  Without a wet stamp or electronic stamp, we have no way to verify the drawings and since we don't take wet stamps, they have to learn to get with the times.


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## tmurray (Jul 13, 2020)

We have gone electronic, but have not forced others to submit electronically. We are well into our recovery phase from COVID here (1 active case in our province right now), but when we were in the middle of our shut down, most of the items we received were electronic. If someone wanted to submit a physical copy, they could do that through a mail slot, which was left for a full week to reduce the viability of any contaminants on the paper, we then scanned in all the documents and destroyed them immediately, sanitized ourselves and all equipment. 

We were clear that physical submission added 1 week to review time, which caused a lot of people to re-think their submission method.


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## Sifu (Jul 13, 2020)

I did a lot of research in figuring out how to transition to electronic application and submittals.  Mostly I found the exact same information in several different documents and put it together in a very similar fashion.  One thing I found unworkable for our system was the requirement that all plan pages be a separate PDF file.  I require all plan pages, A's, S's, MEP's be combined into a single set by the applicant.  When I stamp a plan I include a water-mark with the file name on every page that identifies it as having been reviewed.  I flatten all mark-ups and stamps so they can't be manipulated or deleted and secure the document so it can't be manipulated to add or remove pages.  If that occurs it has to come in a revision, which I treat the same way except for the naming convention.

My biggest lack of understanding is still the electronic signatures and seals.  When those are applied I can't seem to work with the documents, and often they disappear.  I am still trying to work those kinks out.  I assume most people apply stamps then flatten them somehow before sending to me because this isn't a common problem.

Great document, wish I had that when I started the process.


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## Pcinspector1 (Jul 13, 2020)

jar546 said:


> If we have older architects then they have to go with the times and modernize.


In the movie Death-wish 2000, I think you get 50 points for running over an old Architect!



jar546 said:


> There is no state law that mandates it but under the circumstances with COVID *we* mandated that it be 100% online submissions.



Who's we? your department?


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## Pcinspector1 (Jul 13, 2020)

Rick18071 said:


> We still have a lot of (elder) architects that only do plans by pencil and not every thing needs to be done by an architect.



I've seen drawing submitted with crayons and they don't have as many cut and paste errors as an electronic submission!


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## mark handler (Jul 14, 2020)

Here is the process i set up


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## Sifu (Jul 15, 2020)

Mark H, I like your process, it spells things out in a little friendlier, common language.  The two points that stand out most ore the splitting of documents and the "pre-screen".  

Our system has a file upload capability, and the max is moving target, but usually around 70mb.  Before I came on board I was seeing submittals with several, sometimes dozens of documents.  Some would even submit an entire plan set, with one page per pdf file.  They were combining the pages in-house then sending them back as a complete set, or broken up in their own way.  I had serious concerns about this.  What if we missed a page?  What if we combined the wrong pages in the wrong order?  My solution was to require a full set-no matter what.  If they had to use a drop-box, so be it.  If they had to use a thumb drive, that is fine too.  The reality is, if they format their document properly by following our guidelines, it is very rare a file exceeds our systems capability.  The docs need to be optimized, have layers removed and flattened.  I did a 536 pg. plan set earlier this year, it ended up right at 100mb, and our system took it.  This is an on-going battle, our system limitations are a problem, but it is pretty rare it is a problem now that we provide them with the methods for reducing their file size.

The second: "pre-screen" process.  That is an every day struggle.  For me, it is the most important step in the process.  Unfortunately, most of our people are either unwilling or incapable of even a little critical thinking.  Our system lets applicants apply for anything and upload anything.  If they don't pre-screen it to verify the application and submittals, we get absolute junk.  This problem is a combination of poor personnel, poor software program, and really poor use of the program.  I deal with this literally every day.

I think the rush to online everything didn't consider the loss of the human interface.  Before, if applicant brought in a plan that wasn't adequate, they were turned away with clear instructions on how to submit immediately.  The permit tech could easily explain the problems and offer solutions in real time.  Now, an applicant uploads something in the middle of the night, probably applies for the wrong permit type and then assumes it is all good.  It is only several days later (or worst case, not until a plans examiner gets to it) that they receive a poorly worded, confusing email from a generic address saying their submittal is incomplete and can't be reviewed.  Basically, we are allowing them to submit junk, and they seem to be gladly taking us up on it.  If junk gets to me I usually pick up the phone and re-introduce the human element.  I explain what i need, the response is usually "I wish somebody would have just told me that 2 weeks ago", or something along those lines.  Better submittals would help, better screening and communication would help.  I imagine many departments have both of those qualities.  Mine does not.

The struggle continues.


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## steveray (Jul 15, 2020)

Even with a great permit tech, people will still fight to submit junk....I tell her to fight as much as she wants and then send them to me or just send a denial herself..."Your permit has been denied at this time...." Tends to get peoples attention a little better...


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## mark handler (Jul 15, 2020)

Sifu said:


> Mark H, I like your process, it spells things out in a little friendlier, common language.  The two points that stand out most ore the splitting of documents and the "pre-screen".
> 
> Our system has a file upload capability, and the max is moving target, but usually around 70mb.  Before I came on board I was seeing submittals with several, sometimes dozens of documents.  Some would even submit an entire plan set, with one page per pdf file.  They were combining the pages in-house then sending them back as a complete set, or broken up in their own way.  I had serious concerns about this.  What if we missed a page?  What if we combined the wrong pages in the wrong order?  My solution was to require a full set-no matter what.  If they had to use a drop-box, so be it.  If they had to use a thumb drive, that is fine too.  The reality is, if they format their document properly by following our guidelines, it is very rare a file exceeds our systems capability.  The docs need to be optimized, have layers removed and flattened.  I did a 536 pg. plan set earlier this year, it ended up right at 100mb, and our system took it.  This is an on-going battle, our system limitations are a problem, but it is pretty rare it is a problem now that we provide them with the methods for reducing their file size.
> 
> ...


the large file issue can be resolved with cloud based  storage. I have used, for my architectural practice, before tuning to the dark side, dropbox. They offer free and paying storage. it also allows you to control who has access to the files.


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## Sifu (Jul 16, 2020)

I am new to the cloud storage concept, but recently did some outside work and created a dropbox account.  So far it works very well, I was able to upload 12 plans with no issues and invite the client in to get them.  I haven't received any feedback yet so there still may be some hiccups but so far so good.  On the other side, on the few occasions I have had to ask submitters to send me large files it has worked well.  I am a little frustrated with permit software that has file size limitations.  You would think that for the a amount of money these things cost they could overcome that, but I barely keep my head above water with technology so maybe it is just an inherent problem.


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## jar546 (Jul 16, 2020)

Sifu said:


> I am new to the cloud storage concept, but recently did some outside work and created a dropbox account.  So far it works very well, I was able to upload 12 plans with no issues and invite the client in to get them.  I haven't received any feedback yet so there still may be some hiccups but so far so good.  On the other side, on the few occasions I have had to ask submitters to send me large files it has worked well.  I am a little frustrated with permit software that has file size limitations.  You would think that for the a amount of money these things cost they could overcome that, but I barely keep my head above water with technology so maybe it is just an inherent problem.



One of the things that we all have to keep in mind is that all electronic records are subject to state records retention laws.  We use Laserfiche which is compliant with our state records retention law.  When we get our new program up and running in the next few months, it will actually integrate with Laserfiche automatically when applicants upload documents.


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## mark handler (Jul 16, 2020)

I am not advocating Storage on the web, The comment on cloud based programs allows for transfer of large files. we download all permanent  files to our secure on site servers.


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## tmurray (Jul 16, 2020)

We have Laserfiche and use the Laserfiche mobile app to access all of our documents on our mobile devices. Nothing more impressive than pulling up a building permit from 1970 while you are standing on the owner's property.


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## Sifu (Jul 16, 2020)

I have heard talk over the last year about integrating with laserfiche but that is beyond my feeble brain.  I do know that the way our system is set up, when a document comes in it is probably reproduced anywhere from 3 to 10 times and save on the servers permanently.   We save everything multiple times, server space and retention policies be damned!


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