# New handout



## ICE (Mar 7, 2017)

This is out there.  I removed the official seal of the AHJ.  Apparently there has been a rash of incorrect work done on kitchens.  To combat that an office manager and an inspector have created a handout.  This is to be provided to the applicants and adhered to by the inspectors.  As wrong as it is I suppose that it could be worse.  







Here is another that was created because of the habit of mounting service panels over the old panel.





This is the back page which shows the hardware.  I was asked about the hardware and said no.


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## chris kennedy (Mar 7, 2017)

ICE said:


> As wrong as it is I suppose that it could be worse.



At first glance the only thing I see wrong with that is wet location connectors are not required in a properly installed listed 3R J-box.

I'm cooking, will take a closer look later.


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## Francis Vineyard (Mar 8, 2017)

tienen un código eléctrico de california ilustrado


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## ICE (Mar 8, 2017)

chris kennedy said:


> At first glance the only thing I see wrong with that is wet location connectors are not required in a properly installed listed 3R J-box.
> 
> I'm cooking, will take a closer look later.


The gaskets will mate up with plaster and are listed to mate with the body of a weather-proof J-box.  The blank cover is not listed for use with a hole and fitting.  The weather-proof extension has nothing to screw to except the mud ring.


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## linnrg (Mar 8, 2017)

210.50 (B) (2) No other outlets

Not sure if the top drawing was to help people calulate loads or to do small appliance circuits correctly.


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## ICE (Mar 8, 2017)

linnrg said:


> 210.50 (B) (2) No other outlets
> 
> Not sure if the top drawing was to help people calculate loads or to do small appliance circuits correctly.


I'm not sure either....I was not aware of the handout until one was put in my hand.


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## Francis Vineyard (Mar 8, 2017)

linnrg said:


> 210.50 (B) (2) No other outlets
> 
> Not sure if the top drawing was to help people calulate loads or to do small appliance circuits correctly.


Concur, often handouts are geared for the inspector or in this case apparently the plan reviewer; not the average layman. The latter 2 are much easier to understand.

They are nice illustrations ICE.


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## linnrg (Mar 8, 2017)

I used to think handouts were helpful.  I would rather that people invest in education without me giving them the answers.


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## ICE (Mar 8, 2017)

Francis Vineyard said:


> They are nice illustrations ICE.



I suppose they are and what do you think of the information?


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## steveray (Mar 9, 2017)

Does Cali amend the required "circuits"?


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## Francis Vineyard (Mar 9, 2017)

ICE said:


> I suppose they are and what do you think of the information?


There's more than one solution to a problem.


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## ICE (Mar 9, 2017)

steveray said:


> Does Cali amend the required "circuits"?


No


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## Pcinspector1 (Mar 9, 2017)

I've provided handouts before and they have been helpful. But what I'd rather do is say we have three deck sizes to choose from and that's it, no modifications unless you get a stamped drawing by a man who draws or engineer. 

Starting to think like an HOA guy.


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## Pcinspector1 (Mar 9, 2017)

Your handout should be a code book or two or three or....


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## ICE (Mar 9, 2017)

The information regarding load calculations is not relevant and is misleading.

Although two 20amp small appliance branch circuits are required, no dedicated circuits are required.

The information on countertop receptacle outlets should include the exception for the space behind sinks and ranges.

The maximum space from a receptacle outlet on a countertop is 24”, not 48”

Islands require a receptacle outlet for each separate space with a long dimension of 24” or greater and a short dimension of 12” or greater, not just one receptacle outlet as is stated.

Peninsulas require a receptacle outlet but it is not required to be placed at the end of the peninsula.

Missing is the description of a peninsula.

Missing is the requirement for AFCI protection for all circuits in a kitchen.

Missing is the requirement for GFCI protection for the dishwasher.

Missing is the wall spacing requirements for receptacle outlets.

Missing is the requirement for tamper resistant receptacles.

Missing is the exception for switched receptacles and refrigeration equipment.

Missing is the maximum height of a receptacle outlet above a counter or floor.

Missing is the exception for listed in-countertop receptacle outlet assemblies

Missing is the requirements for receptacle outlets that are mounted under a counter.

Missing is the energy requirements for light fixtures.  I tossed that in because it is the last bit of code that relates to the electrical work in a kitchen.


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## steveray (Mar 9, 2017)

Thanks ICE...I was catching some of those which is why I asked if you amended. That is part of the issue with handouts, the constant need to update (AFCI and GFCI in this case)

If we produce any, we try to disclaimer the heck out of them in case we miss something.


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## ICE (Mar 9, 2017)

These handouts were created by an office manager and an inspector.  People show up at the office wanting an explanation of corrections and the manager doesn't have an answer.  The handouts are more for the manager than the customer.

These latest examples went to two contract cities as well as my office.  They have the official seal but weren't vetted by the electrical dept.  This might get interesting...or perhaps nobody but me will say anything.  She is quite unpleasant when challenged.


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## linnrg (Mar 9, 2017)

Thanks ICE - I re-read 210.50 (B) (1) through (3) and is seems pretty clear and instead of the handout that the "manager" should simply copy [and understand] article 210. (but that would also require the GFCI , AFCI and tamper resistant sections be copied too!)

I am guilty of misusing the phrase "dedicated" when specifically talking about this subject - thanks for the reminder.


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## chris kennedy (Mar 10, 2017)

A potential problem I see is the refrigerator on a SABC. All the refrigerators, freezers, ice makers, wine coolers ect I run into state 
"Install on a dedicated 15 or 20 amp branch circuit."

I see this wether the appliance draws 1.5A or 12A.
So you would have a violation of NEC 110.3(B) and then the contractor will say 
"That's what your handout shows???"


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## linnrg (Mar 10, 2017)

210.50 (b) (1) exception 2 allows for the refrigeration to be on an individual branch circuit of at least 15 amps


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## chris kennedy (Mar 11, 2017)

linnrg said:


> 210.50 (b) (1) exception 2 allows for the refrigeration to be on an individual branch circuit of at least 15 amps



All well and good, now I challenge you to find a users manual for a piece of household refrigeration equipment that doesn't say this...


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## ICE (Mar 11, 2017)

Well Chris, only top shelf electricians know about that.  I certainly didn't and I have approved a few thousand kitchens with who knows what for the refer....Now I will ask for the dedicated circuit and see what happens.

When I was a kid electricity was referred to as 110 and 220 volt.  Now we say 120 and 240 volt.  When measured it is somewhere between the two.


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## steveray (Mar 13, 2017)

So the violation is on the person who plugs the fridge in...not the electrician. I do not require the fridge to be present for CO and would have no way of knowing...Back to GFCI vending machine arguement...


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