# Solar



## Keystone (Jun 30, 2017)

So I was at a seminar regarding the installation of solar energy, from digesting the conversations the solar industry appears to be making attempts to standardize installation without an RDP. I was perplexed at how many authorities having jurisdiction allowed panel installation with structural analysis by an RDP. So I have to question, how many out there allow panel installation without an RDP?

Not having an RDP may possibly work if the home was constructed within the adoption of the IRC and IRC agrees to reference and or standards but that's not here yet so we're sticking with our requirement of an RDP.

The average panel weight per square foot is minimal however there's variables of unequal loading, the existing materials, condition, etc...


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## tmurray (Jun 30, 2017)

We require a sealed design here.


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## Keystone (Jul 3, 2017)

Must not be a worthwhile topic?


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## steveray (Jul 3, 2017)

Holiday delay....engineers letter here. Even then they try to stick as much wiggle room as possible in so that they can get off when the roof collapses.  Rarely do I see an existing roof that I could approve under IRC and that is the issue, we need some standard to inspect the roof to. We did not have a statewide code until 1971 and before that it was whatever the town wanted or didn't want...They use the 3psf crap argument and neglect to address that it is a series of point loads, not uniform.


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## ADAguy (Jul 3, 2017)

What about wind uplift?


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## conarb (Jul 3, 2017)

What about the fires, shouldn't roof surfaces be fireproofed prior to the installation of solar panels?  Australia's problems:



			
				Brisbane Times said:
			
		

> More than 200 fires have started in Queensland as a direct result of solar PV installations.
> 
> The startling figure, tracing fires between September 210 and June 2015, shows almost one fire a week is prompted by faulty inverters, wiring connectors or dc isolators.¹



Or maybe England's problems:



			
				Daily Mail said:
			
		

> A large blaze broke at a brand new block of flats in East London this afternoon with witnesses claiming the building's solar panels appeared to have caught fire.
> 
> The roof of Bow Wharf was engulfed by flames leaving it partially collapsed at the scene which was between Bethnal Green and Mile End. Other floors were also damaged.
> 
> ...




¹ http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...-spark-a-fire-every-week-20150617-ghqt0t.html

² http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4658696/Large-blaze-brand-new-block-flats-East-London.html


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## JCraver (Jul 5, 2017)

I require an engineer letter also - not sure how else you'd do it.  Most of the time it comes from the/a truss company, and contains the bare minimum of what I need.


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## ICE (Jul 5, 2017)

A solar array takes the place of a live load.  The array weight is low.  The array racking has a fire rating that must match or exceed the roofing material.  In most cases the roofing is class C whereas the racking and panel combo comes in at A.

In twenty years it will all be headed to landfills.  Solar should have a dump fee attached.


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## conarb (Jul 5, 2017)

ICE said:


> In twenty years it will all be headed to landfills.  Solar should have a dump fee attached.



Tiger:

Appraisers are discussing now how much to devalue homes with solar, one of their major concerns is disposal costs because of the rare earth metals in them.


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## ICE (Jul 5, 2017)

conarb said:


> Tiger:
> 
> Appraisers are discussing now how much to devalue homes with solar, one of their major concerns is disposal costs because of the rare earth metals in them.



When I was house hunting I rejected  any house that had solar.  Because of the neighborhoods that I wanted to live in, only tile roofing is available.  The installation methods do not impress me and the damage done to the roof bothered me.  I don't walk on tile roofs at all.  So I really don't know how bad it is but sending a bunch of car salesmen on the roof equates to a mess.  Seeing what they do to asphalt shingles is an eyeopener.

Ten years from now a broken panel will not be replaced because that panel hasn't been produced for five years.  Mix and match does not work with this stuff.  How about those shot roofs?  The solar has to come off and be reinstalled.  The solar goes in a garage and the inspector is none the wiser.  The re-roof gets a final and the roofer puts the solar back on the roof.  The last time the roofer installed solar was never.  What could go wrong?  More to the point, what could go right?

Because Elon Musk bought Solar City people that I have talked with are confident that PV is a bright spot in an otherwise tepid economy.  Mr. Musk has plenty of experience owning companies that operate in the red.  I don't discount his intellect and accomplishments but he is perhaps too smart for our own good.  He wants to put people in a tube and blast them between LA and Frisco at 800 MPH.  He plans on populating Mars.  Quirky fits.  So he bought Solar City for a captive market for the batteries that he must also produce for Tesla.

Any industry that can't survive without the government floating their boat is doomed.  It is a matter of time and technology catching up.  Sooner or later people will wake to the reality that by the time the solar is paid for, it is worn out.  Year fifteen will produce a third of the energy that it did when new.  New technology can wipe out the old in a heartbeat.  Solar City has developed a roofing tile that will replace panels. I expect Solar City to abandon the residential panel market and pursue small commercial panel systems.

Solar workers are cobblers.  They cobble the pieces together.  It is the wild west out there.  Do you people pay attention to the pictures I bring you?  I wouldn't let them on my roof for any reason.

Knowing all of that I wonder how the huge solar farms penciled out.  Betting on a power source that struggles is okay for Humboldt County pot growers....the rest of us can strike a deal with a power company.  And what about the power companies?  How can they survive if every customer is out to break them?   Some jurisdictions require solar on all new houses.

Do you know anyone with PV that cleans the panels?  I know exactly one and he is an electrical engineer.  Did you know that "periodically" the array must be inspected for "loose or corroded parts, which if found must be immediately replaced".  Oh you weren't told that.  UL2703 requires that.  It also requires that the entire system be erected using a torque wrench on each fastener.  That never happens.  So much of what is required never happens.  Hell's Bells, the racking isn't even labeled so good luck finding parts.

I was invited to join the standard making panel for UL2703.  The industry rules there.  After about a year of it an office manager banned me from further participation.  I was less than impressed.  There is too much money about.  The NRTLs are for profit.  That sums it up

Had the government sat this one out the landscape would look entirely different


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## mtlogcabin (Jul 5, 2017)

Solar is just starting to pop up in our region. The 1 that came into our jurisdiction we required an engineer to look at the roof live loads that will accumulate from the snow drift build up on the back side of the panels. In order to maximum exposure they 20 to 45 degrees from vertical. In others they act as a wall installed on top of a roof for the snow to build up behind.
http://solarelectricityhandbook.com/solar-angle-calculator.html


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