# Barn stairs



## Yankee (Mar 21, 2011)

I have an accessory structure to a single family dwelling. It is a large barn with a loft and a second loft. Obviously traditional barns do not have compliant guards and rails on the lofts nor have compliant stairs. For a minute, I thought agricultural buildings were exempt but I can't find that wording. . . . ?


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## steveray (Mar 21, 2011)

Not in this state.....


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## Kearney.200 (Mar 21, 2011)

Appendix C of the 2006 IBC.

not much there though.


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## fatboy (Mar 21, 2011)

another "stair" thread..........opcorn

call it attic access and move on.

JMHO


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## globe trekker (Mar 21, 2011)

What are the lofts being used for?

.


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## north star (Mar 21, 2011)

** * * **



Appendix C in the IBC will not be applicable!......This is a Residential

"accessory" structure....See Section R101.2 in the applicable IRC.



** * * **


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## fatboy (Mar 21, 2011)

"What are the lofts being used for?"

Doesn't matter, as George would like to point out, if that's what they are labeled on the plan.......well, what is a typical use of a loft? Hay, grain, other ag type storage.

Sleeping...well that's a whole nother story...farmer's daughter and all.....haha.

Really, I'd move on, if it were me.


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## fatboy (Mar 23, 2011)

Sorry, somehow I locked this, did not intend to........... really!


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## GHRoberts (Mar 23, 2011)

I do appreciate fatboy's comment.

Barns are really difficult buildings. Especially where residential properties are allowed to have farm animals.

Many barns have a ladder made by nailing 1x3s to a stud wall. People learn to use them.

Real barns are not habitable. They are drafty, unheated, and have minimal lighting. (That might be a guideline.)

If the lofts are labeled for anything other than hay storage (or equivalent), I would ask for compliant access and guards.


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## NH09 (Mar 23, 2011)

I agree that calling it attic access would be a reasonable solution (and one I would probably go with), however Yankee raises a good point - once it becomes a usable storage area the code seems to say a compliant stairway would be required. It would be great if the ICC could work in more exceptions for sheds and agricultural buildings.


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## FredK (Mar 23, 2011)

I think the definition says it all:

AGRICULTURAL, BUILDING. A structure designed and constructed to house farm implements, hay, grain, poultry, livestock or other horticultural products. This structure shall not be a place of human habitation or a place of employment where agricultural products are processed, treated or packaged, nor shall it be a place used by the public.

If it's something other than that then I'd regulate it.


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## brudgers (Mar 23, 2011)

globe trekker said:
			
		

> What are the lofts being used for?.


Lofts are a type of dwelling.

Therefore the barn requires sprinklers.

Since it is a mixed occupancy -

An NFPA 13 system is necessary.


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## Yankee (Mar 23, 2011)

brudgers said:
			
		

> Lofts are a type of dwelling.Therefore the barn requires sprinklers.
> 
> Since it is a mixed occupancy -
> 
> An NFPA 13 system is necessary.


Not only that, but one equine is blind and the other has only three legs.


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## Alias (Mar 23, 2011)

Yankee said:
			
		

> I have an accessory structure to a single family dwelling. It is a large barn with a loft and a second loft. Obviously traditional barns do not have compliant guards and rails on the lofts nor have compliant stairs. For a minute, I thought agricultural buildings were exempt but I can't find that wording. . . . ?


My take on a barn with two lofts -

I live where there are lots of barns, one loft is the norm.  What is the second loft for, human habitation?  If no human habitation, move on without the stairs, guards, railings, etc.

Second option could be that the "loft" will be used for living quarters/bunkhouse/guesthouse as is common in some European countries.

At this point it becomes a mixed use occupancy and all SFR stair, guards, and railings become applicable.


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## globe trekker (Mar 23, 2011)

> "Not only that, but one equine is blind and the other has only three legs."


An Accessibility pun I am assuming!    What, no bovines, ...canines, ...felines, or swines?We are lacking and Jones-ing for some more information regarding the "lofts". I agree that

most accessory use structures [ "barns" ] with lofts are ( typically ) used for storage of hay,

grains, livestock feed, old furniture, etc., etc., etc. However, they could meet the definition

of the "new", trendy Residential marketing literature of a "loft bedroom, or loft study, or

loft anything but storage". The submitted plans should indicate the "on paper" use type.

.


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## Daddy-0- (Mar 23, 2011)

Ag buildings are exempt from permits in Va. They are supposed to still meet code but they are not inspected. The problem we have is that people build winery buildings under the exempti


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## Daddy-0- (Mar 23, 2011)

Ag buildings are exempt from permits in Va. They are supposed to still meet code but they are not inspected. The problem we have is that people build winery buildings under the exemption and then use them for tasting parties. Occupation limitations be damned. I would not worry about the loft in your case.


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## Mac (Mar 24, 2011)

"Loft" has several meanings - in NYC it could be a funky cool apartment; in a barn might be more like a haymow.

Yank has a barn with a loft above a loft. How big is the upper loft (could it be a third story)?

Anyway NY has an exemption for ag buildings, but must be a real farm, with qualifications, and not a playhouse in the suburbs.


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## Yankee (Mar 24, 2011)

: ) thanks for the replies , , ,  the upper "loft" is truly a hay loft, it is supported by the upper beams of the bents, the higher beams above the second floor beams. so the upper loft is only above the center isle and the lower loft(s) are over the stall areas on either side of the center isle. It truly IS an agricultural barn. I only began having heartburn about the stairs and guards when the owner mentioned looking forward to his grandchildren visiting, , , running loose and maybe unattended in the barn . . . . I think, , I think it isn't my issue even so.


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## Frank (Mar 24, 2011)

Daddy-0- said:
			
		

> Ag buildings are exempt from permits in Va. They are supposed to still meet code but they are not inspected. The problem we have is that people build winery buildings under the exemption and then use them for tasting parties. Occupation limitations be damned. I would not worry about the loft in your case.


No actually they are exempt from the code except for flood and mudslide provisions unless they are licensed as a restaraunt.  The restaraunt exception to the exemption is aimed at banquet facilities at winerys.  There is an old TRB interp that a 3 story office building was exempt under these provisions.  They are also exempt from fire and maintenance codes to the extent we could not order the demolition of an old abandoned silo in a bean field next to a subdivision that the adjoining one had collapsed killing a kid that was playing around it.

"102.3 Exemptions. The following are exempt from this code:

6. Farm buildings and structures, except for a building or a portion of a building located on a farm that is operated as

a restaurant as defined in Section 35.1-1 of the Code of Virginia and licensed as such by the Virginia Board of

Health pursuant to Chapter 2 (Section 35.1-11 et seq.) of Title 35.1 of the Code of Virginia. However, farm

buildings and structures lying within a flood plain or in a mudslide-prone area shall be subject to flood-proofing

regulations or mudslide regulations, as applicable."


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## brudgers (Mar 24, 2011)

Yankee said:
			
		

> I only began having heartburn about the stairs and guards when the owner mentioned looking forward to his grandchildren visiting, , , running loose and maybe unattended in the barn . . . . .


Did you have a treehouse as a kid?


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## Daddy-0- (Mar 27, 2011)

The bigger problem is how to get all that hay up there.

Frank....is that from the 2009 USBC? I don't recall that exact language from the 2006 and have not yet really jumped into the 2009.


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## Yankee (May 2, 2011)

brudgers said:
			
		

> Did you have a treehouse as a kid?


Yup, fell out of it and broke my arm : ) , , , fondly recall the "ladder" which was 2x4's attached to the trunk with one nail in the middle of each. Kinda wobbly.


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## Frank (May 2, 2011)

I was Quoting 2009 but 2006 is same language.

Farm buildings, excluding residences, have been exempt from the VA USBC since the 1973 inception of the USBC.

In the 2003 USBC farm buildings licensed as restaraunts came under code jurisdiction in response to some issues with winerys having receptions etc.


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