# No framing inspection - what would you do?



## Darren Emery (Sep 30, 2010)

New contractor in town - calls for what we call a "pre-frame" inspection (would you come out and take a look at the framer's job, and make sure there are no glaring mistakes, before the trades get started? ) - calls for plumbing rough...and then nothing.  No sign off on framing, no electrical, no mechanical.

Yesterday we find out the house is complete, and almost time for final.

Question is - how would you handle this?


----------



## texas transplant (Sep 30, 2010)

It means a lot of walls and ceilings get opened up here.  If they don't want to open up the walls etc. for inspection, that means no water, no gas, no electric, no sewer, no occuapancy.


----------



## peach (Sep 30, 2010)

I agree with tex...  in fact, that's pretty much exactly the scenario I'm working on today as well.


----------



## mtlogcabin (Sep 30, 2010)

How well do you know the plumber, electrician and insulator? What are there reputations/track record? Why did they not call for their inspections? I am not as hard as some and try to work with someone the first time but then again I do not have control over the utilities as others do.


----------



## PORTEOUS (Sep 30, 2010)

Same as cabin, no control over utilities, (we should), but if they could have an engineer put thier stamp on it and take on any future liability it would work here, if they did'nt want to remove any rock and uncover.


----------



## Uncle Bob (Sep 30, 2010)

STOP WORK ORDER,

Remove all wall covering and expose all framing, electrical, plumbing, and mechanical.

Have a nice day,

Uncle Bob


----------



## Glennman CBO (Sep 30, 2010)

That's the problem with these sort of laid back "pre, this or that inspections". You go there and look at a few things, point out a few things that might be an issue, then leave without actually writing corrections. I mean, why would you write corrections when it was only a casual "pre" inspection. They weren't ready for a real inspection.

Then you leave. They think thay had a real inspection, cover every thing up, and say the inspector already saw it.

Been there, but only once. Not that I never go and look at anything in this manner anymore. I just make it very clear that this is NOT a frame inspection (or what have you).

They will just need to open up things enough so you can verify what you think you need to see, and go from there.

Like UB said "Have a nice day".


----------



## TimNY (Sep 30, 2010)

I would look at the quality of the work that you can still see to judge what needs to be exposed.  Having missed so many inspections I don't think any amount of quality work being visible is going to completely remove the necessity for removal of wall coverings.

I would only accept the stamp of a RDP if he personally observed the construction and had some reasonable description of what he saw and on what dates.  I would not accept a seal from somebody I suspected was just rubber stamping.

Affidavits from the subs with the wording "False statements made herein are punishable as a Class A misdemeanor" would also be required for any work I chose not to have uncovered.

Luckily I have never had a problem like this.  Good luck.


----------



## GHRoberts (Sep 30, 2010)

So all the trades failed to call in their rough and finish inspections?

Have they ever done it before?

What do they have to say about the issue?

All of sudden this just happened?


----------



## Daddy-0- (Sep 30, 2010)

There are ways around some of it with an engineer. You can still pressure test the DWV, gas and water service. You can make them remove some drywall to get a feel for the electrical work and insulation. There are just too many things that need to be looked at these days. If we go to a job for a site visit we always leave an inspection ticket that says, "Site visit only. Corrections required" or something similar. If it was me they would be removing most of the drywall. This is a hard lesson for that contractor but one he will never try again. I would not approve without remove.


----------



## Rio (Oct 1, 2010)

Try to find out why the screw up occurred.  If the explanation makes sense then go easier on them but stress that it's a one time favor.  Do the pressure testing and selective removal of wall coverings to see if there are any problems.  If there aren't then it's a good indication it was done correctly; if problems show up then it's an indication that someone is sloppy or incompetent and more should have to be opened up for inspection.


----------



## cboboggs (Oct 1, 2010)

I have learned the hard way not to do the "one time favor" it only comes back to bite you in the **s. Here they would be removing drywall or providing and RDP's letter (stating that they personally observed the construction) or there would be no utilities. We also try not to do "pre" inspections. They too have found a way to bite. We also don't do framing before we do the other trade's.


----------



## vegas paul (Oct 1, 2010)

Darren - I feel your pain!  When you said it was a new contractor, I assume he was licensed in Manhattan?  Have you taken any steps with your license disciplinary process?  Did he pull the combo permit for all trades, or did they pull their own individually?  Ultimately the permit holder is responsible for calling in the inspections, which is why I ask.

I agree that a representative sampling of uncovering/opening for framing and trades inspection is required.  Most likely, an RDP was NOT involved in the house, so theres not one to take liability anyway.


----------



## Mule (Oct 1, 2010)

No good deed goes unpunished!


----------



## Darren Emery (Oct 1, 2010)

Some additional info - and thanks for the responses so far.

The contractor is licensed, and did pull a building permit, which covers all trade work.  I spoke to the contractor today - he was under the impression that the trades had called in all of the rough-ins, and that the "preframe" was all he really needed, since he expected the inspector to "just sign off" on the rest of it when he came out to do the trade inspections. This is a hold-over from the days, not all that long ago, when we were a small enough jurisdiction that the inspector (single inspector covered the entire town) _would_ come back and take a look at the project as a whole, when the next inspection was called in.

Growin' up is hard to do...sometimes.

We will follow up with some form of license discipline, and _may_ require some drywall to come down - this has not been decided yet.

I did get the feeling that this was more of an oversight, than a blatant disregard for our inspection process.


----------



## pwood (Oct 1, 2010)

the guy is an incompetant boob for putting you in this position. do what makes you feel comfortable with what is happening now and what might happen in the future based on your decision!


----------



## fatboy (Oct 1, 2010)

I guess you must not have a sign-off card on site? We have one that pretty much goes in chrono order as the construction does. At the bottom of each section is the comment;

"Do not proceed or cover until inspections above are signed off."

If they blow and go with us, then they are at the mercy of the field inspector, whatever he is not comfortable with..........remove rock.

For your situation, you can tell a lot from plug checking and recept placement on the electrical side. you could always ask for letters from the subs attesting all work was done in accordance with applicable codes..... I don't like them, but at least you have something to hold them to.


----------



## Darren Emery (Oct 1, 2010)

Oh yeah - we have an inspection card on site.  I checked it today before I called the builder.  We have made it as straight forward as possible.  All inspections are in order of construction, and after all the trades and frame, there are two lines:

Approved to Insulate

Approved to Drywall

Both lines were absent the required date and intials...  The builder had no idea he was supposed to actually LOOK at the card...


----------



## fatboy (Oct 4, 2010)

sigh...........I'm afraid I wouldn't be to lenient on this one.......make sure it is done right. If this builder can't flippen read.......that's not your problem. I can't imaginge the powers that be wouldn't support you.


----------



## Bootleg (Oct 4, 2010)

Remove the rock (on one side interior walls) and insulation and call for inspection.


----------



## Robert Ellenberg (Oct 4, 2010)

I believe the fact that he did not make enough of an effort to determine what was required, particularly not reading the card, would be a basis to assume he doesn't know if the house is constructed to code and therefore if needs to be properly inspected.


----------



## That Inspector Guy (Oct 7, 2010)

This is one of the reasons why I have stopped doing all these "Pre" inspections. I used to get framers calling me all the time asking for an inspection. Between all the administrative problems it creates, plus having to go out four times (framing, RE, RP, RM) it became a PITA. So I finally put the brakes to it. I now tell everyone I do it all at once, and if any of the inspections fail, I just don't issue approval to insulate until they all pass.

As for this predicament, if your instinct is telling you that it was an administrative blunder on his part, maybe make him open up some drywall here and there, or go with the engineering option.

If you think he was being a douche, out comes all of the drywall.


----------

