# We may be making a difference



## Uncle Bob (Jul 30, 2010)

Decided to read the ICC New; they e-mail me, for a change.

Read about new fiancial assitance regulations for voting;

http://www.iccsafe.org/Membership/Pages/2010FinancialAssistance.aspx

This is an example of why the "old" ICC Forum was usefull and important. We spent a serious amount of posts and time, on their Bulletin Board; discussing the Mini-Soda fiasco; and, our efforts paid off.

Uncle Bob


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## RJJ (Jul 30, 2010)

I will take a look!


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## FM William Burns (Jul 30, 2010)

Shoot...I deleted that too today. I'm going to have to get back to reading them. I'll dig it out in my recovery tool.


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## Coug Dad (Jul 30, 2010)

Let me know if you cannot recover it and I will forward it on to you.


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## FM William Burns (Jul 30, 2010)

Thanks CD...just saw it in Code Admin from ConArb.


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## texas transplant (Jul 30, 2010)

UB,

It is just more lip service in my opinion.   That rule will be followed by the honest folks and disregarded by the others, and it will be next to impossible for the ICC to ever get the proof to throw out a vote.

Or maybe I am just grumpy and cynical today.


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## Uncle Bob (Jul 30, 2010)

FM,

Your getting as old and senile as me; you can just click on it in the OP.

Ya'll remember; it's about the voting impropriety; or paying for votes; regardless of the reason.

Uncle Bob


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## Uncle Bob (Jul 30, 2010)

Texas T,

"it will be next to impossible for the ICC to ever get the proof to throw out a vote."

I believe it was because of the research and investigations of members of the old ICC BB; that found the evidence and posted it to the forum, that brought the Mini-Soda Fiasco to the attention of the ICC.

Probably one of the reasons we lost the forum too; but, that's a shame on the ICC.

We found the evidence before; and that's why they had to address it; and we can do it again.

Uncle Bob


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## texas transplant (Jul 30, 2010)

UB,

Guess I am of the opinion that until they go back to the Code Officials of governmental agencies and maybe a couple of other reps from a City depending on size etc. are the only ones getting to vote we are not going to see any reform.   When they opened it up so anyone with the price of a membership and the price of admission to the show could vote, they were asking for it.

But there again, all it takes to become President of the ICC is to give out the coolest t-shirts, gifts and most drinks the night before the election.   The old BOCA organization that I cut my teeth on wasn't perfect in anyway, but I find myself longing for the good old days at times.


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## RJJ (Jul 30, 2010)

ok! I forced myself to read this and spit a mouth full of good coffee on the floor! " Transparent and accountable process" Humbug I say. Humbug!

They don't see the elephant in the room! They don't want to see it and nothing has changed. Is it a step in the right dirrection? I don't think so. Did they hear us? Not really. JMDHO!


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## Min&Max (Jul 30, 2010)

I find it incredible that code officials would vote against their conscience regardless of who paid for them to be at a code hearing. I have attended code hearings in which NAHB provided funds for my attendance but I certainly did not vote their "line". They did not ask my position nor did I volunteer my opinion prior to attending the hearings. I would agree however that we have lost control of our organization and the BUILDING code is not so much a building code anymore. We opened the door to others and we are becoming little more than bystanders enforcing others rules.


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## FM William Burns (Jul 30, 2010)

Increased Font for UB  

We’ve been down this road before and while being appalled by what I observed in MN and MD by my own profession, I realize that there are many ways to manipulate the system and it will be done…..regardless of our efforts......it's the machine and the way things are done throughout all regulatory and legislative processions. (JMHO)

UB,

Much truth in what you said to TT if one reads between the lines and understands the interest associations. As for us, well sometimes my fingers operate faster than the mind these days..... 

Oh....BTW...the Tigers are winning a game finally!


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## north star (Jul 30, 2010)

** * **

RJJ,

 Have you become cynical over the ' continuing '  ICC Drama... ?       I seem

to recall [ not so long ago ] that you were our cheerleader.    What

happened to change your viewpoint?

I've said it before and I will say it again... ICC is not going to get any

better!    The old days and the old ways are gone forever!

We still have to purchase their code books, ...take their certification

tests and attempt to have some resemblance of actual, worthwhile

input into the various committees.      Until they actually decide to

"get out of bed with the Feds."   &   the other powers-that-be,   and

demonstrate some sort of independent backbone, we can continue to

hash this subject out and not get much accomplished.

Let's face it...  we are all dancing to their tune,  and that tune is not

in our favor!

FWIW, I too received the Survey request at my e-mail address on

this forum.   I quickly erased it!    So, "yes", they are monitoring

this site.

Also, and again...  *"MUCH THANKS"*  to Jeff!  

** * **


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## Uncle Bob (Jul 30, 2010)

FM,

Amazingly, I haven't had to wear reading glass in the last year; and, can even read the footnotes below the tables in the code books.  The big font is just an old habit now.

But thanks,

Uncle Bob


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## peach (Jul 31, 2010)

I agree with Tex.. voting members are either going to be honest or not.

I cut my teeth in SBCCI... travel costs were less since I wasn't required to get to Reno or Minneapolis to attend.  (Miami, Asheville, Myrtle Beach.. dang I miss those days).

Voting members should be allowed to vote via the webcast.  Register to do so in advance and then really participate; even call in comments or text messages to the hearings should be heard.

The days of a huge physical presence are pretty much over; all of us are watching pennies, not dollars right now.


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## RJJ (Jul 31, 2010)

North Star: I am still a cheer leader. For the right issues. The difference is I have witnessed it first hand. Minneapolis was just a mess. FM and I have seen it first hand. We Voted different, but we both saw the elephant in the room. In Baltimore the elephant dumped on him. I can't accept that this is how it is done or should be done. Sorry Just not right. I also, don't see the ground swell that is need to bring change.

North Star give me something to cheer about and I will be out in front. For now, I know which hill to die on ,so I can move on. My problem is that silver tongued fools don't impress me. Gene B. gave me once some great advice regarding learning how to work the system. I believe frustration has just got the upper hand.

UB: I don't think they have listen to us. They turned off the lights to get negative talk off thier web site. So in one aspect they have silence the drum. Now what they have lost is the professional dialogue that flourished on that BB daily. so in one aspect they have won.  Just what, remains to be seen.


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## peach (Jul 31, 2010)

ICC is still "our" professional organization.. while we broke away from the COI on their website, and somewhat the prodigal children.. they are still our organization and we need to continue to participate in the code change hearings as we all can.  Otherwise, we have no say in what ends up in the Code for us to enforce.

I believe ICC was as flabergasted at what happened in Minneapolis as the rest of us.

We all have a moral compass which dictates what we do (and don't do).  If the elected officials demand we vote one way or the other at the hearings, it's up to us to vote for what we believe is right not necessarily what may be politically popular.


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## RJJ (Jul 31, 2010)

Well Peach! As always you are with both feet on the ground. I don't disagree regarding the professional part or our need to continue to vote. I believe that this is the same direction given to me from Gene B. in regards to working the system.


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## peach (Jul 31, 2010)

Not even working the system... unless we are going to strike out and write a new set of codes... (like we have the time to do that).. then try to gain the credibility of ICBO, BOCA, SBCCI and their successor, ICC.

SBCCI held out for awhile.. because we told Bill Tanyge to hold out... and lost a lot of good old SBCCI language... (like the old 2 risers and a tread stair geometry)... of course I'm kidding about that one.. but marking a fire rated wall above the ceiling was there... and I don't believe has finally found a home in the IBC.


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## Uncle Bob (Jul 31, 2010)

With SBCCI; you didn't have to adopt the CABO One and Two Family Dwelling Code and many municipalities didn't.  We had an office in Austin, Tx; and every year SBCCI would have a one week seminar at Texas A&M; where you took the course of your choice and could take the exam before you left.  The "Experts" on the phone were knowledgeable, friendly and helpful; and, they knew the codes and their application.

Those days are gone,

Uncle Bob


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## RJJ (Jul 31, 2010)

UB: Yes the times have changed! Peach: working the system is not so much starting a new one, but learning the system well enough to have it work for the right changes. In principal I think ICC is a good structure. No system is perfect nor will one ever be. Perfection is just a bench mark strive for. We are just like kids on a merry go round. Not quite big enough to reach the brass ring. In time, maybe we will grow smart enough and larger enough to to  grasp the ring. The silver tongue that says step right up is the problem, but if your are not on the merry go round you don/t have a chance. Boy I do love code talk!


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## peach (Jul 31, 2010)

SBCCI was really the best, UB (in my opinion) .. many of their staff have become ICC staff... and that's a good thing. I can't speak to BOCA training, but Brent Snyder (from ICBO) used to come to Michigan and do chapter training.  (Not quite the same as the SBCCI training.. especially if you were lucky enough to have Richard Beck as the trainer).


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