# You picked the wrong house to screw up in



## jar546 (Dec 27, 2020)

What are the chances that the townhouse that I moved into almost a year ago had a mechanical permit pulled two years ago, there was a new air handler installed in the attic that was done incorrectly and not discovered until the very first time I tried to turn the heat on?  What are the chances that the chief mechanical inspector just happens to be my friend and I notified him that this is an open permit that did not have any inspections performed?  It's not going to be a good Monday morning for the contractor.

All of the issues are electrical from the installation.


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## cda (Dec 27, 2020)

Heaters in Florida?

Like having air conditioning in Alaska?

Boy, someone is going to decide not to work in your town anymore.


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## fatboy (Dec 28, 2020)

RUT-ROH.........

"Rainy days and Mondays always get me down"

Some of the more senior members will get that!


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## chris kennedy (Dec 28, 2020)

How did you find out there is an open permit?

10,000/240=41.67


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## jar546 (Dec 28, 2020)

chris kennedy said:


> How did you find out there is an open permit?
> 
> 10,000/240=41.67


Delray Beach has an online permit system for searching.  Most towns do now.


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## jar546 (Dec 28, 2020)

chris kennedy said:


> How did you find out there is an open permit?
> 
> 10,000/240=41.67



7.68kW for this one, plus the 7A for the fan, MCA 49, MOC 50 on the label for that heater pack.


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## jar546 (Dec 28, 2020)

cda said:


> Heaters in Florida?
> 
> Like having air conditioning in Alaska?
> 
> Boy, someone is going to decide not to work in your town anymore.



Hey, it gets down into the 40's a few nights a year even in south Florida.


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## e hilton (Dec 28, 2020)

Delray Beach ... nice town.  I did a project there about 3 years ago.


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## chris kennedy (Dec 28, 2020)

jar546 said:


> Hey, it gets down into the 40's a few nights a year even in south Florida.


With high humidity and stiff breeze 40 will cut right through you here.


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## Mark K (Dec 28, 2020)

Who will pay to correct the deficiencies?

The building department regulates what is built but does not regulate the contractor, thus the building owner is responsible for correcting the problem.  The building department cannot take legal action against the contractor so the building owner will have  to take any legal action against the contractor but this could be  difficult if property had been sold or if too much time had passed.

Even if the building owner can force the contractor to correct the deficiencies, if this requires the use of a lawyer the building owner may find that it would be cheaper to hire another contractor to do the work.

Now I could be  wrong and the contractor may decide to  fix the problem out of the goodness of his heart but how likely is that given that he has already been paid for the work?


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## cda (Dec 28, 2020)

Future inspections might get a more eagle eye or may be the last one of the day

Just saying


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## jar546 (Dec 28, 2020)

Mark K said:


> Who will pay to correct the deficiencies?
> 
> The building department regulates what is built but does not regulate the contractor, thus the building owner is responsible for correcting the problem.  The building department cannot take legal action against the contractor so the building owner will have  to take any legal action against the contractor but this could be  difficult if property had been sold or if too much time had passed.
> 
> ...


In Florida, the contractor are licensed by the State.  In this case the contractor pulled a permit and failed to call for an inspection then let the permit expire.  Under the FBC they are in violation of the law and subject to disciplinary actions against their license.  The qualifier of the construction company is the liable party.  This is not California.  There are many routes to hold the contractor accountable in this case, not just one.


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## Mark K (Dec 29, 2020)

In California the contractor licensing board could also take action against the Contractor's license.  The Contractor is also required to have a bond which could be used to pay.

Still it may take several months, maybe several years, until the licensing board acts.  In   the mean time there is a non conformance that the building owner must resolve.  I doubt that the building department will give the owner enough time to resolve the issue with the licensing board.  So the Owner still needs to pay to have the discrepancy resolved and hope that he can get enough money from the bond to pay for the work.

Punishing the contractor for poor work may be the easy part.  This still leaves us  with the question of who pays to correct the work.  The building department may be concerned with revenge and punishment but the owner just wants the problem to go away.  Then there are the people living  in the building, who may  not own it who may not  be able to use certain parts of their  house.  These people just want the problem to  go away,


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## Rick18071 (Dec 29, 2020)

It's much simpler in PA. Contractors are not licensed so all reasonability is the owners. The owners of course can sue the contractors. Much easier for building department than finding all the subcontractors the owner may has hired that may have vanished. But we do have the following fairly toothless law which the building departments are not allowed to enforce and has no fines. It's only for work on existing houses, not new houses or any commercial work. It is made for little old ladies that get ripped off for roofs and siding that was not done or inadequate work. It's only a way to keep info on contractors information so a owner can find them to fix the problem or take them to court, if the contractor did register. It's basically the owners job to make sure the contractor is registered but most people don't know about it.

On July 1, 2009, the Home Improvement Consumer Protection Act (Senate Bill 100) took effect. This law requires most home improvement contractors to register with the Pennsylvania Attorney General’s Office. Additionally, these contractors must maintain minimum insurance coverage and utilize contracts that comply with a number of consumer protection requirements specified in this law. The Attorney General’s Bureau of Consumer Protection is responsible for enforcement of these requirements.


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## e hilton (Dec 29, 2020)

cda said:


> Future inspections might get a more eagle eye or may be the last one of the day
> 
> Just saying


Mr Ice could visit the area for a couple of weeks to show them how it’s done on the left coast.


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## Pcinspector1 (Dec 29, 2020)

Jar Eastwood: 
You picked the wrong house to screw up in​Uh uh. I know what you're thinking. "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well to tell you the truth in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself.


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## cda (Jan 14, 2021)

jar546 said:


> What are the chances that the townhouse that I moved into almost a year ago had a mechanical permit pulled two years ago, there was a new air handler installed in the attic that was done incorrectly and not discovered until the very first time I tried to turn the heat on?  What are the chances that the chief mechanical inspector just happens to be my friend and I notified him that this is an open permit that did not have any inspections performed?  It's not going to be a good Monday morning for the contractor.
> 
> All of the issues are electrical from the installation.




So what is the update


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## steveray (Jan 14, 2021)

What real estate agent is getting sued for selling a house with open permits?


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## mtlogcabin (Jan 14, 2021)

jar546 said:


> Hey, it gets down into the 40's a few nights a year even in south Florida.


I have seen it spit snow 2 times in the 40 years I lived in Fort Lauderdale


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## cda (Jan 14, 2021)

mtlogcabin said:


> I have seen it spit snow 2 times in the 40 years I lived in Fort Lauderdale




Some people when they get Old, need more heat.


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## Min&Max (Jan 14, 2021)

jar546 said:


> What are the chances that the townhouse that I moved into almost a year ago had a mechanical permit pulled two years ago, there was a new air handler installed in the attic that was done incorrectly and not discovered until the very first time I tried to turn the heat on?  What are the chances that the chief mechanical inspector just happens to be my friend and I notified him that this is an open permit that did not have any inspections performed?  It's not going to be a good Monday morning for the contractor.
> 
> All of the issues are electrical from the installation.


So the one thing I have learned about being a building official is that anytime I buy a property I check with the jurisdiction to check on past permits and thoroughly inspect myself prior to purchase. Foundation walls are first and then roof, windows, electrical, HVAC and plumbing in that order. Drives the realtors crazy.


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## jar546 (Jan 14, 2021)

Min&Max said:


> So the one thing I have learned about being a building official is that anytime I buy a property I check with the jurisdiction to check on past permits and thoroughly inspect myself prior to purchase. Foundation walls are first and then roof, windows, electrical, HVAC and plumbing in that order. Drives the realtors crazy.


Agree.  In this County, you can't close on a house if there are open permits or rather unless they are closed.  Expired permits are not closed.  I lease this property so this did not apply.


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## classicT (Jan 14, 2021)

Min&Max said:


> So the one thing I have learned about being a building official is that anytime I buy a property I check with the jurisdiction to check on past permits and thoroughly inspect myself prior to purchase. Foundation walls are first and then roof, windows, electrical, HVAC and plumbing in that order. Drives the realtors crazy.


I just purchased a new home and had to correct my real estate agent on what actually constitutes a bedroom.

For any realtors out there, just because it has a closet, does not make it a bed room. And vise versa, it doesn't have to have a closet to be a bedroom either.


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