# An average day



## ICE

I spotted an extension ladder sticking out of the ground.  I could only see a few inches of the ladder because it was behind a lumber stack.  Right away I thought: Well I better have a look and I might get a picture out of this because there's bound to be some scary thing happening.  They are looking for the sewer lateral.  The hole is 5'x7' at the top and 9' deep.  There is a tunnel that extends 5'.  They were digging another hole 15' from this hole and if they didn't find it there, the plan was to connect the holes with the tunnel.  They are convinced that the lateral is around eight feet deep so the tunnel at 7' to 9' deep should intersect the lateral.  The soil is sandy silt and they dug it all with shovels.  An angel must have said: Would somebody go get a Tiger.




The first 39 pages have pictures with a PhotoBucket logo.  After that the pictures are clear.  Many pictures and posts have been deleted due being corrupted during server changes. The total number of views is also wrong as 188k were lost during a change.


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## Keystone

Now I understand all the great pics, your gonna make a bad contractors picture book,

"Bad Contracting For Dummies, Picture Version".


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## brudgers

What have you got against people striving for the Darwin award?


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## Mac

Keep at it Icy, there's no way to tell how many stu... I mean  innocent lives you are saving.


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## TJacobs

They dug 2 holes connected by a tunnel so that if one hole collapsed they could escape to the other hole...

:roll:


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## JMORRISON

Practice for Cartel employment?


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## Coug Dad

Any pics from inside the tunnel???????   Right this way meeeester inspector!


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## Alias

Looks like someone's been swimming in the shallow end of the gene pool!   

CalOSHA would've had a field day with this one........................:devil

Sue


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## ICE

Alias said:
			
		

> Looks like someone's been swimming in the shallow end of the gene pool!    CalOSHA would've had a field day with this one........................:devil
> 
> Sue


As soon as I left the site yesterday, the workman stopped filling the hole and continued digging the next hole.  I went there this morning and there were the holes.  The workman called the contractor.  I told the contractor that I would call OSHA.  The contractor called my office.  My supervisor called me and said that I should drop it because I put it in writing yesterday and I was not to call OSHA.  Apparently, a written notice from me renders the site safe.

OSHA doesn't answer the phone on Fridays.

Tiger


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## fatboy

Me thinks an anonymous tip to OSHA on Monday would be in order...........


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## Daddy-0-

I agree with Brudgers as scary as that is!


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## ICE

fatboy said:
			
		

> Me thinks an anonymous tip to OSHA on Monday would be in order...........


By Friday afternoon the holes were filled.  The contractor took pictures to the office.  I guess the thought of an OSHA fine scared him into action.



In the first six months of my career I walked into a 600 sq. ft. room addition and nearly passed out.  The contractor had painted every wood surface with Cuprinol wood preservative.  The studs and plates, ceiling joists, rafters, even the inside of the wall and underside of the roof sheathings.  There were puddles on the slab.  I got all the way to the part of passing out where I lost contact with my body.  I wanted to shout for help and nothing came out.  I didn't go all the way out but for a moment, I was laying on the lawn unable to move.   My exposer lasted less than 10 seconds.

I didn't have to think about what to do and told the contractor that he would have to tear it down and start over.

Naturally the contractor went to the top of my department and he enlisted the homeowner to present an argument to keep it.  The Superintendent of Building decided that once the drywall is installed, the framing could be considered to be outdoors and therefor the skull and crossbones warning is moot.  More Cuprinol was applied to the outside of the wall and roof sheathing.

I was new and this ruling came from the top.  I performed the rest of the inspections looking through the windows.

Four years later, on a cold winter day, I went there to inspect a water heater replacement.  The lady of the house answered the door wearing an overcoat with a hood.  She looked at me with tears in her eyes and said: "You let them ruin my home."

All of the windows in the entire house were open and had been open since the day the Cuprinol was applied.  I could still smell the chemical.  She explained that if the windows are closed, the smell overwhelms them in a few hours.

When it happened, I consulted the manufacturer, EPA and few others that I can't remember.  All said that the wood must be removed and maybe the concrete slab.  I presented my findings to the SOB.

It is eleven years later and a chilly morning; I bet the windows are open at that house.

So back to the holes.  As soon as I got off the phone with my supervisor, I called CalOSHA and left a detailed message.  By the time I returned to the office, the manager had gotten wind of the situation and asked me what I was doing about it.  I told him and he said to stay on top of this contractor and do whatever I think is necessary.  As I was leaving his office, he said that he appreciates my willingness to buck the system.

I might add that the manager and his brother were building a house many years ago and have first hand experience.  The trench sloped to a depth of 13'.  As the brother was walking out of the trench, it collapsed at the 8' depth and trapped him up to his armpits.  He was dug out to his nuts by the time the FD arrived but it was a close call.

And the lady?  She was correct in her accusation.  I did indeed let them ruin her home and most likely, her health.

Tiger


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## GCtony

I have a unrelated question but didn't want to start another thread.

We have an out of town project, a large retail store. The building inspector has been a "little over the top" with some of his interpertations of the code. We've played nice and done what he's asked. But today one of the things he failed us for on a final was "install 6" cove base in the restrooms"  We'll go ahead and change out the 4" to 6" like he asked but I spent an hour looking in the IBC and can't find any requirement for 6" base.  Does this exist or is this something he just likes to see?

Thanks in advance.


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## Codegeek

The 2006 IBC requires a 6 inch base.  It changes to 4 inches in the 2009 and stays 4 inches in the 2012 in Section 1210.2.1.


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## Coug Dad

1210.1 (2009) is 4 inches

Codegeek is too quick on the draw


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## righter101

GCtony said:
			
		

> I have a unrelated question but didn't want to start another thread.  We have an out of town project, a large retail store. The building inspector has been a "little over the top" with some of his interpertations of the code. We've played nice and done what he's asked. But today one of the things he failed us for on a final was "install 6" cove base in the restrooms"  We'll go ahead and change out the 4" to 6" like he asked but I spent an hour looking in the IBC and can't find any requirement for 6" base.  Does this exist or is this something he just likes to see?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


IBC Chapter 12 (2009 edition) would support your position

SECTION 1210

SURROUNDING MATERIALS

1210.1 Floors and wall base finish materials. In other than

dwelling units, toilet, bathing and shower room floor finish

materials shall have a smooth, hard, nonabsorbent surface. The

intersections of such floors with walls shall have a smooth,

hard, nonabsorbent vertical base that extends upward onto the

walls at least 4 inches (102 mm).

This is a change from 2006 codes which had it at 6".

If you are under the 2006 codes, technically he is correct.

In our jurisidction, we do look to codes that are coming up for adoption and will consider those code changes when considering a request for modification.

If this was my jurisdiction, and you were permitted under the 2006 codes, on a minor (IMHO) issue such as this, we would allow compliance with the newer code.

What code were you permitted under?

One option you always have is to request, in writing, a modification from the building official.  You are supposed to provide the compelling evidence that your alternative is equal in safety and such.

Using a code change to a slightly lesser requirement, IMHO, would qualify.

Worth a shot.

Also, I always feel there is nothing wrong with asking inspectors and plans examiners what section of the code is being violated when they issue a notice of correction.  Coming from the side of the enforcers of the code, I feel this is an entirely reasonable request.  I have instructed my inspetors to, if unable to quote chapter and verse on the spot, inform the contractor that we will provide them a code citation later that day or the following day at the least..

Part of our job as code officers involves education to the public and I fully support that.

Have a nice day.  Good luck.


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## righter101

Yeah he is quick.

I could have beat him but I was sipping coffee and typing.


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## mjesse

GCtony said:
			
		

> I have a unrelated question but didn't want to start another thread.  We have an out of town project, a large retail store. The building inspector has been a "little over the top" with some of his interpertations of the code. We've played nice and done what he's asked. But today one of the things he failed us for on a final was "install 6" cove base in the restrooms"  We'll go ahead and change out the 4" to 6" like he asked but I spent an hour looking in the IBC and can't find any requirement for 6" base.  Does this exist or is this something he just likes to see?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Feel free to start a new thread anytime.

Although this isn't a great place, see *2006 IBC* *1210.1 Floors. *

*In other than dwelling units, toilet and bathing room floors shall have a smooth, hard, nonabsorbent surface that extends upward onto the walls at least 6 inches (152 mm).*

mj


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## GCtony

Well son of a gun!   What the heck is it doing in the accessability chapter? I guess Chaper 8, finishes would make too much sense.  You know how many restrooms I've built that don't meet 1210?  Learn something new every day. Thanks!

I'm wondering if other juristictions inturpert "smooth, hard, nonabsorbent surfaces" as painted drywall?


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## mtlogcabin

> One option you always have is to request, in writing, a modification from the building official. You are supposed to provide the compelling evidence that your alternative is equal in safety and such.Using a code change to a slightly lesser requirement, IMHO, would qualify


Agree 100%.

In defense of the inspetor most can barely keep up with the current adopted codes and will not even look at the newer editions till they are being adopted.


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## mtlogcabin

> I'm wondering if other juristictions inturpert "smooth, hard, nonabsorbent surfaces" as painted drywall?


Nope not here


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## steveray

Tony....No on the drywall....isn't Chapter 11 Accessibility? 12 might b interior environment? No book at this time....


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## GCtony

Righter,

We're using 2009

We don't usally play that game of code modifications or going over someone head unless it's costing someone big money.  It doesn't make for a good working relationship. I learned at a very young age that paybacks can be a B*** .  Most are willing to help you do your job better but sometimes you run into the not so helpful people.  I guess they don't realize they more they educate us, the easier they jobs should become.

Our field staff is instructed to always ask for code referances.   This was done in this case and the inspector just handed him the ticket and walked away. The guy's either an jerk or someone peed in his frosted flakes this morning.


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## GCtony

steveray said:
			
		

> Tony....No on the drywall....isn't Chapter 11 Accessibility? 12 might b interior environment? No book at this time....


peMy bad (feeling foolish)   Chapter 12 is interior environment.


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## rktect 1

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Nope not here


Explain to me how paint on drywall is a smooth hard non absorbant surface, then I'll tell you how it isn't.

Now how did we manage to segwe onto this topic from a picture of a big deep hole in the ground?


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## ICE

rktect 1 said:
			
		

> Explain to me how paint on drywall is a smooth hard non absorbant surface, then I'll tell you how it isn't.*Now how did we manage to segwe onto this topic *from a picture of a big deep hole in the ground?


It must be the thread title.  That's a wide open door to talk about anything.


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## GCtony

yes Ice, didn't want to start another thread. I figured it's just another average day.

"Explain to me how paint on drywall is a smooth hard non absorbant surface, then I'll tell you how it isn't."

I'll have a go at it:

Commercial Kitchen, 5/8" MR GWB on the walls, with epoxy paint. Smooth? Very. Hard, In my opinion yes but difficult to define hard. Non Absorbant?  For sure.  Easier to clean than textured FRP or tile (grout)   Was submitted and aproved by BO and Health Dept.  Now flat latex paint over regular GWB, a differnt story. The floor was poured epoxy with a 6" cove up the wall over cement board.


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## rktect 1

GCtony said:
			
		

> yes Ice, didn't want to start another thread. I figured it's just another average day."Explain to me how paint on drywall is a smooth hard non absorbant surface, then I'll tell you how it isn't."
> 
> I'll have a go at it:
> 
> Commercial Kitchen, 5/8" MR GWB on the walls, with epoxy paint. Smooth? Very. Hard, In my opinion yes but difficult to define hard. Non Absorbant?  For sure.  Easier to clean than textured FRP or tile (grout)   Was submitted and aproved by BO and Health Dept.  Now flat latex paint over regular GWB, a differnt story. The floor was poured epoxy with a 6" cove up the wall over cement board.


I think you have confused hard with solid.  Diamonds are solid and so is pudding but only one of them is hard.  In your opinion drywall is hard but to me it is only solid.  CMU is hard.  If I punched a CMU wall, it wouldn't budge but if I punched drywall, I'd put a hole in it.  You have to ask why they would even make such a statement about the hardness.  What wall surfaces, used in construction typically for bathrooms, do you know of that would NOT comply with being hard?  The answer is none.  ICC knows we usually use drywall, if not something MORE solid and hard like CMU in bathrooms.  If that is the case, and we typically use drywall in most bathrooms throughout, ICC surely meant that drywall is not a hard surface, only solid.  They even went so far as to state it only has to be this way at a certain location within the bathroom, not the entire bathroom.  Painting drywall with epoxy does not make it hard although it may make it non abosrbant and smooth.

  I like what they added at the end of 1210.2".....the materials used in such walls shall be of a type that is not adversely affected by moisture. "


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## pwood

never have allowed drywall with epoxy paint as an acceptable finish in commercial bathrooms per 1210.2. 30 miles to the north in Oregon they allow it!


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## GCtony

rktect,

Yep, hard is fairly subjective. So in this case vinyl cove base meets 1210.1. Drywall with epoxy meets everything except hard makes me think that ICC looks at vinyl cove base as being harder than drywall.

1210.1 Floors and wall base finish materials. In other than

dwelling units, toilet, bathing and shower room floor finish

materials shall have a smooth, hard, nonabsorbent surface. The

intersections of such floors with walls shall have a smooth,

hard, nonabsorbent vertical base that extends upward onto the

walls at least 4 inches (102 mm).

What's kind of strange about this; the inspector has us changing out the 4" base for the required 6" base. But didn't say anything about 1210.2.  (smooth, hard, non absorbant to 4' around urinals and WC's)  The walls are drywall painted with semigloss.


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## rktect 1

Does it meet exception #2.

I have also been to bathrooms in various villages that do allow paint.  But just because one city or another city does allow paint does not make something code compliant.  I have heard the excuse for many things that are required by code go something like this.  "But they don't make me do that in these other cities."


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## KZQuixote

rktect 1 said:
			
		

> Explain to me how paint on drywall is a smooth hard non absorbant surface, then I'll tell you how it isn't.Now how did we manage to segwe onto this topic from a picture of a big deep hole in the ground?


Not sure but it seems to be getting deeper.

IIRC the correction notice was only for the height of the base. If I were the inspector you wouldn't find me enforcing that code section knowing that a later version was relaxed no matter when the job was permitted.

Bill


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## mtlogcabin

Go into any public restroom and the majority of the walls will have been defaced, people gouge them, scratch them and poke holes in them.

Be carful with CMU as most of that is very porous and is a breeding ground for germs and bacteria.


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## brudgers

rktect 1 said:
			
		

> Does it meet exception #2.  I have also been to bathrooms in various villages that do allow paint.  But just because one city or another city does allow paint does not make something code compliant.  I have heard the excuse for many things that are required by code go something like this.  "But they don't make me do that in these other cities."


  Substrate and finish are two separate things.  When talking about finishes, Gypsum board usually is a substrate not a finish.

  It is the surface which is required to be smooth, hard, and non absorbent.

  A particular finish may or may not provide such a surface regardless of the substrate, e.g. an aluminum panel on sound deadening foam.

  The language in the code is bad - what is the Mohs hardness required?

  But if the intent was to require tile, then it would have said "tile."


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## rktect 1

I can understand where you are coming from on the finish vs/ substrate but, when you remove the substrate portion of the wall or partition and focus on smooth, hard and non-absorbant, there is no way ANY paint is hard.  And making it a thin layer of epoxy just made it brittle at best.

Have you ever been inside a multiple stall bathroom?

Usually made of metal panels, right?

What finish is on the metal stall panels?

Paint not epoxy.  Yet it is still a smooth hard non absorbant surface, right?

Point being that it met the code criteria through an assembly method, not one single material.


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## Frank

Smooth, hard and nonabsorbant--some thoughts

Smooth

CMU, clay hollow tileblocks, grouted ceramic tile, stone--marble granite tile-- not smooth at the grout and mortar joints

Hard--harder than what? Harder than carpet?  Vinyl floor tile or sheet goods? Is marble hard enough? Vinyl cove base? Semi gloss painted dyrwall is about as hard as the vinyl cove base.  How about HDPE partitions of high density polyethlene?  What about FRP panels on the walls?

Nonabsorbant--to what extent?  Again an issue with grout and mortar joints in ceramic or clay tile.  Painted CMU or concrete is about as non-absorbant as similarly painted drywall.  Stone and unglazed ceramic tile and their grout joints are more absorbant than the vinyl sheet goods or HDPE.

Powder coated metal panels are smooth, except at the joints and hardness varies--does the ability to dent count as not hard?

Terrazo has some absorbancy--for floors slip resistance when wet is also an issue.

What are we going to require?

Stainless steel with welded and ground joints like on commercial kitchen tables?

These code provisions are intended to provide washable surfaces in restrooms.

Drywall painted with gloss or semigloss paint provides a washable surface.

This section is intended to keep out bare wood, paper wallpaper and carpet.


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## Frank

rktect 1 said:
			
		

> I can understand where you are coming from on the finish vs/ substrate but, when you remove the substrate portion of the wall or partition and focus on smooth, hard and non-absorbant, there is no way ANY paint is hard.  And making it a thin layer of epoxy just made it brittle at best.  Have you ever been inside a multiple stall bathroom?
> 
> Usually made of metal panels, right?
> 
> What finish is on the metal stall panels?
> 
> Paint not epoxy.  Yet it is still a smooth hard non absorbant surface, right?
> 
> Point being that it met the code criteria through an assembly method, not one single material.


Panels are now typically metal, solid plastic, plastic laminate or traditionally cut stone panels.

Metal panels, other than stainless steel, are typically powder coated not painted.

http://www.allpartitions.com/


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## brudgers

rktect 1 said:
			
		

> I can understand where you are coming from on the finish vs/ substrate but, when you remove the substrate portion of the wall or partition and focus on smooth, hard and non-absorbant, there is no way ANY paint is hard.  And making it a thin layer of epoxy just made it brittle at best.    Have you ever been inside a multiple stall bathroom?    Usually made of metal panels, right?    What finish is on the metal stall panels?  Paint not epoxy.  Yet it is still a smooth hard non absorbant surface, right?  Point being that it met the code criteria through an assembly method, not one single material.


  No. Those items met the Owner's requirements which often exceed code minimums.  Sheet vinyl is hygienic enough to be used for hospital floors.

  Vinyl wall covering is hygienic enough to be used for hospital walls - as is painted drywall.

  And you're going to prohibit both in a single hole office bathroom?


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## mtlogcabin

> And you're going to prohibit both in a single hole office bathroom?


Nope

2009 IBC

1210.2 Walls and partitions.

Walls and partitions within 2 feet (610 mm) of urinals and water closets shall have a smooth, hard, nonabsorbent surface, to a height of 4 feet (1219 mm) above the floor, and except for structural elements, the materials used in such walls shall be of a type that is not adversely affected by moisture.

Exceptions:

1. Dwelling units and sleeping units .

2. Toilet rooms that are not accessible to the public and which have not more than one water closet.


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## codeworks

cmu painted with block fille, then painted with a finish paint. wgats wrong with that. seen it in lots of schools, melamine panels over drywall is great, just not "painted drywall", though i've been told to accept that


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## Papio Bldg Dept

brudgers said:
			
		

> No. Those items met the Owner's requirements which often exceed code minimums.


I don't see many owner's requirements that cross my desk that meet the code minimums...at least the first time around.  That being said, (working in the 2006 editions), we enforce the code as mtlogcabin posted it.  If that restroom is for public use (which we in part define as shared and per IPC requirements), then yes, something other than painted drywall needs to be used there.  There are many other wall assemblies that will meet this requirement and that are not cost prohibitive to the project.


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## Papio Bldg Dept

Is that the new 'white-strip roof-membrane' I have been hearing about...it's supposed to wick away heat and water from a buckling unvented roof?


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## ICE

Papio Bldg Dept said:
			
		

> Is that the new 'white-strip roof-membrane' I have been hearing about...it's supposed to wick away heat and water from a buckling unvented roof?


Actually the subject of the picture is electrical.So are the next two.  The job is a 200 amp meter main with a sub-panel.  The work was done under a permit obtained by a general contractor.  Correction #14 said to send in a licensed electrical contractor to obtain a permit.  
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 769








These two are of a dead-front from an old panel-board enclosure that has become a junction box.  Sheet metal and tape.


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## pwood

i am surprised that you did not try to educate and work with the wanna be lectrician on this one. you are a discredit to your occupation, no patience! :mrgreen:


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## ICE

pwood said:
			
		

> i am surprised that you did not try to educate and work with the wanna be lectrician on this one. you are a discredit to your occupation, no patience! :mrgreen:


There is 450' of skinned up 3/0 THHN in conduit on the roof that is damaged.

This guy got 14 corrections but I stopped short and there were another five or so waiting to be written.  He called me this morning and wanted to discuss the corrections.  His first question was "What does AIC mean?"  Before I could reply I heard, "And GEC, what does GEC mean?"  I told him that the only correction that was written for him is #14.

This next picture is a homeowner project.  It's part of a service upgrade.  The lady said that she told her husband that this just doesn't look right and maybe he should let the inspector see it before he plasters it.  Nine corrections in all and here I will be teaching.  It is a bit aggravating in that I will teach this guy and he will never do it again.  It would almost be easier if I just did it for him.  Perhaps I will start teaching with bags on.  That could be fun.  I could spit and use swear words.  I better get a first aid kit; well just in case I damage a helper.


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## ICE

I saw a dumpster on the street so I asked the workman what was going on.  He said that there was nothing more than termite repairs being done.


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## codeworks

inspecting a panel the other day in a new retail space in a strip mall. guts in panel boarrd are upside down.  what they got was a bottom feed mlo, so the just flopped it " to save wire" i won't give em power because there are breakers that are supposed to be "in the vertical position, up being on, down being off". contractors first question " when can i get power" my answer " how soon can you fix this" "what ?" "where's you're electrician ? " electricican actually asked the same question.  simple, pull it out, flip the guts, pull conductors back to j-box, make proper splices, pull it back in, install bonding bushings this time, call me for reinspect. how do they get licensed, that's what i want to know. oh yeah, "can i splice in the panel board ?" 3-2/0 and a ground, no, panel board is not rated as junction box. and i'm the bad guy


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## ICE

codeworks said:
			
		

> inspecting a panel the other day in a new retail space in a strip mall. guts in panel boarrd are upside down.  what they got was a bottom feed mlo, so the just flopped it " to save wire" i won't give em power because there are breakers that are supposed to be "in the vertical position, up being on, down being off". contractors first question " when can i get power" my answer " how soon can you fix this" "what ?" "where's you're electrician ? " electricican actually asked the same question.  simple, pull it out, flip the guts, pull conductors back to j-box, make proper splices, pull it back in, install bonding bushings this time, call me for reinspect. how do they get licensed, that's what i want to know. oh yeah, "can i splice in the panel board ?" 3-2/0 and a ground, no, *panel board is not rated as junction box*. and i'm the bad guy


If there is sufficient space, splices are OK.


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## ICE

The Home Depot crew and you aren't really roofers.


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## ICE

Sometimes I wonder how I can keep a straight face when I am presented with things like this.  And the contractor was there to meet me.  This is all the proof I need that a license is easy to get.


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## codeworks

ok iceman, they are feeders, not service entrance conductors. they run from the disconnect outside adjacent the meter to a MLO panel in the building. I dont recall the conductior size off the top of my head, but they would have been yugly in the panel, taken up too much space, contractor wanted to use polaris type, i suggested butt splice with cold shrink, he liked polaris, so the splices are in j box out side the tenant space, which is all part of the original pipe run install for power to this little establishment.


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## ICE

codeworks said:
			
		

> ok iceman, *they are feeders*, not service entrance conductors. they run from the disconnect outside adjacent the meter to a MLO panel in the building. I dont recall the conductior size off the top of my head, but they would have been yugly in the panel, taken up too much space, contractor wanted to use polaris type, i suggested butt splice with cold shrink, he liked polaris, so the splices are in j box out side the tenant space, which is all part of the original pipe run install for power to this little establishment.


I thought that that might be the case because you mentioned the ground.  I didn't know what polaris type meant so now I've learned something today.  I mentioned service entrance conductors because of the size you gave for the conductors.

http://www.fastmaxsupply.com/Insulated-Electrical-Connectors/Insulated-Electrical-Connectors.asp?gclid=CN2U8LTYt64CFQ8yhwodzjAyqA


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## KZQuixote

Yep, any real roofer knows you gotta roll it out and let it relax before you nail it down, proally means someone underbid the job.

Bill



			
				ICE said:
			
		

> The Home Depot crew and you aren't really roofers.


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## ICE

Sometimes it's the simplest of concepts that escape them.











The correction said: Secure the vent to the draft hood with three sheet metal screws.


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## ICE




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## ICE

"The plywood was in great condition so we got a head start.  You aren't going to make us tear it off are you?  How about if we open up a small area so that you can see some plywood?"


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## imhotep

ICE said:
			
		

> "The plywood was in great condition so we got a head start.  You aren't going to make us tear it off are you?  How about if we open up a small area so that you can see some plywood?"


Tell 'em they can leave it on, but they have to increase the roof pitch to 2/12 and install a second layer of underlayment.


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## ICE

Not only does it look like Hell, it would have been easier to replace the shingles.  So what if the color is off a little bit.


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## gbhammer

Do contractors ever get paid in your area?


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## ICE

gbhammer said:
			
		

> Do contractors ever get paid in your area?


Not by me.  Most have gotten all of the money long before I show up.  They leave obvious things out and then make it an extra to fix their violations.  I have had owners cringe when I come back to inspect corrections because they don't want to pay the contractor to show up yet again.


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## ICE

Why would a contractor wait for me to tell him that a temp power pole needs to be installed?  The job stops until a temp power pole goes in so what is the advantage to not doing it first?  Is the few grand it's going to cost worth risking your life?  How about the men working for you, are they not worth protecting?  This was last Wednesday and I had another today.


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## ICE

The contractor replaced the furnace but not the coil.  When I suggested that the condensate drain pipes should be supported, he objected because that wasn't part of his scope of work.  Such a simple thing to ask for with such a drastic outcome if the drain pipe snaps and he said no.






He couldn't say no to replacing the vent.


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## GCtony

The construction gig isn't as fun as it used to be so I'm looking for a new career.  I want to go work with ICE. Lots of jokes and laughs working in your area.  Oh, so the jokes and laughs only last a few days?


----------



## ICE

There is a major overhaul going on here without any permits.  The usual stuff like a furnace and A/C, el service upgrade, water heater, window change out, two new bathrooms and a kitchen.  The second floor addition in the picture is old.  The posts and 4"x4" beam are new.


----------



## ICE

The post bases have edge distance issues but the porch isn't big enough for that to be an exciting problem.  The post to beam and beam to beam connections rely on a few toenails.  I will be finding out if that's good enough for uplift.

Not long ago, I sent them to their engineer because they stuck extra windows in braced wall lines.  The engineer's response was "Add nails".  He didn't say where or how many, just add nails.  The plans called for 6" on center edges and they were already at 4" on center at the edges so now it was 2".  Then I added.....well I better not tell you what I added because some of you get upset when I do stuff like that.


----------



## ICE

Earth's rotation is more than these vents can handle.


----------



## danhiman

That trench is nuckin futs. When I was 17 I unfortunately participated in a dig similar to that pictured. After we trenched it out, it rained and completely filled in. Luckily nobody was injured. Later on with my employment with the same "contractor" I was sent to spray coppergreen in the crawl space of several large apartment complexes, with nothing but a pump sprayer, a home made space incandescent light and a paper mask. After the first building I was seeing colors and vomiting. I was told by the contractor that he has been spraying this stuff for years and has never had any problems. I was young, I should have gone to the hospital. That was my last day of employment with that "contractor".


----------



## danhiman

Thanks for the pictures ICE, this site is becoming a great source of entertainment.


----------



## fireguy

ICE said:
			
		

> Not by me.  Most have gotten all of the money long before I show up.  They leave obvious things out and then make it an extra to fix their violations.  I have had owners cringe when I come back to inspect corrections because they don't want to pay the contractor to show up yet again.


When we have to return to fix something, whether found by me or the inspector, it is done at no charge to the customer.   I thought that was the way it was supposed to be.


----------



## ICE

fireguy said:
			
		

> When we have to return to fix something, whether found by me or the inspector, it is done at no charge to the customer.   I thought that was the way it was supposed to be.


It goes both ways.  There are plumbers out there that will not install anything that's not on the original water heater.  If there is no T&P drain pipe on the existing W/H, then they leave it off the new one.  When I write it up, it becomes an extra.  Smitty pans are a favorite because that's a lot of work.  Many times I have a H/O that asks me if it was proper for the contractor to charge them to do the corrections.  I want to say, "Well somebody has to pay for his education."

Another statement I hear from owners is that the contractor claims that I am asking for things not required by the code so he will not pay for it.  That's not true.....Well not often anyway.    (That's for you fatboy.)


----------



## ICE

This is a re-pipe of an apartment complex.  All of the pipe is on the outside of the building.  That's a good thing too.  The best part is that it's not in my jurisdiction.  The city next door called and asked me to do a damage assessment inspection because their inspector was out sick and the plumber lit a building on fire.  If you think it looks bad now, imagine what it will look like in a few years when the insulation rots away from UV damage.

As I was getting ready to leave I looked at the plumber and said: "Just out of curiosity, did you ream any of the pipe?"  He had no clue as to what I was talking about.

I guess I shouldn't refer to him as a plumber.  Change plumber to "the guy doing the plumbing."


----------



## GBrackins

Well depending how close the abutting building is, this could easily function as a "water curtain" in the event of a fire ...   in Massachusetts it certainly would produce some nice "icicles" in winter!


----------



## danhiman

Are you in Mexico ICE?


----------



## ICE

danhiman said:
			
		

> Are you in Mexico ICE?



I don't think plumbing would be done this way in Mexico unless one is willing to replace it every so often.  We'll see how long it lasts here.


----------



## ICE

The contractor asked me to take a look and give him advice.  I told him to make the trip to OZ and ask the Wizard for a brain.


----------



## ICE

At least it is small.


----------



## danhiman

Google has a good translator app. For some languages you can speak and translate.


----------



## ICE

danhiman said:
			
		

> Google has a good translator app. For some languages you can speak and translate.


I will tell them about that.  Everybody understands "Google it"


----------



## danhiman

LOL. Everybody and their grandma has a iphone or some android driven device.


----------



## ICE

The other day I saw an obviously homeless man talking to himself.  When I got closer I saw the earbud.


----------



## danhiman

Its a little better then the Hoover Dam scaffolding.  No A35 clips in the first pic, Shear nailing with shiners and no stamp, nice "outriggers" Sheetrock blocking? Shouldn't postups for sheer be every 4'?  Nice Light weight strap. A little early for the electrical, heck the wires a water resistant.


----------



## MtnArch

ICE said:
			
		

> At least it is small.


But doubles as a chin-up bar!


----------



## High Desert

ICE, you ever run into a good contractor? :banghd


----------



## ICE

High Desert said:
			
		

> ICE, you ever run into a good contractor? :banghd


Not so much lately but it does happen.  The area I have doesn't support good contractors.  The usual is a paper contractor and a Home Depot crew.  Guys with good help can't compete with a shyster.  And then I show up.


----------



## danhiman

LOL nice. They should put a bird bath on that.


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:
			
		

> It doesn't get much worse than this.


*See the PDF*

Figure 4. R-Values for Compressed Fiberglass Batts

http://www.flashandfoil.com/pdf/Foam-with-compressed-batt.pdf


----------



## danhiman

Hahahaha, nice work. I hope they at least had some netting under all that.


----------



## KZQuixote

ICE said:
			
		

> This sets the tone of the inspection.  You guys are pigs.  This will be a restaurant some day and you think it is acceptable to leave dirt in the track and we're talking everywhere.


Cite It and write it! Course, "dirt in the track" seems a bit evasive.

Bill


----------



## pwood

ICE said:
			
		

> This sets the tone of the inspection. You guys are pigs. This will be a restaurant some day and you think it is acceptable to leave dirt in the track and we're talking everywhere.


ice,

  You obviously are not a structural engineer. i know an engineer (George Roberts) that would say that the rocks take the place of shot pins or anchors. Yeah, He could make that work!


----------



## ICE

The occasion is an electrical service upgrade.  The NEC requires all pipe that could possibly be energized to be bonded to the grounding electrode system.  The NEC allows the equipment grounding conductor of an appliance that is attached to gas pipe to serve as the bonding jumper for the gas pipe.

That works fine on paper but in practice there is a flaw.  How is an inspector to know the condition in all cases?  So many times the owner isn't there and there is no access to find out if there is an appliance.

As a result, i ask for a bonding jumper at the water heater.   The water heater is usually installed outside so it's not much of a big deal because there is a jumper that must be installed between the hot and cold water pipes and extending it to the gas pipe hurts little.  If the there is access to the dwelling and there is a gas furnace, I wouldn't ask for the jumper and if you already did it (happens a lot) oh well, a clamp and three feet of wire got wasted.

In this case the gas hard pipe stops behind the water heater so the electrician connected the jumper to the water heater control valve body.  You can see why the plumbing code requires a 4" gap between the control and the seismic strap.  And how about that strap? Other than the clearance, is it installed correctly?


----------



## ICE

4-4-12

New 100 amp service panel with the old service entrance conduit and conductors.  That's a length of iron pipe that the drop is attached to.  The contractor swears that the poco has seen this and is waiting for our release to hook it up.


----------



## ICE

4-4-12

Residential re-pipe.  I asked the plumber to cut out a section of pipe with a fitting.  He asked why.  I said I want to see if the pipe has been reamed.  He asked what reamed meant.  I explained and he said that he didn't do that.  I told him not to bother cutting out the section and to do the work over.  Upon reviewing the pictures, I am puzzled by the lack of any visible flux.  I better ask more questions tomorrow before he starts doing the work over.  He hadn't heard about wiping the joints either. 

He's gonna learn another use of the word reamed when he tells the GC what he's done.


----------



## ICE

4-5-12

The contractor called for foundation inspection.  He called me in the morning and asked me if I would make his job my last stop.  I asked if he was ready for inspection and he said yes except for some steel and anchor bolts.  I arrived around 2:00pm.

On the face of it, it looks like it was a wasted trip when it was actually a blessing in disguise.  The excavation is too shallow by 10" and the center footing in the wrong place.  Had I not shown up, the forms and steel would have been placed and all for naught.


----------



## ICE

4-5-12

This looks worse than it is.  A few A-35s will fix it right up.


----------



## GBrackins

what the ......


----------



## ICE

4-5-12

Wall furnace inspection.  The contractor didn't provide a ladder to inspect the vent in the attic.....he never does......if the H/O doesn't have a ladder I must request a ladder and do the inspection at a later date.

I waited 7 minutes while the H/O dug this ladder out of his garage.  When I told him that the ladder is too short he said he had a taller one.  It only took 5 minutes to retrieve that one.


----------



## ICE

4-6-12





 in the jungle.  It was 8:02 this Friday when the man called.  He wanted the inspector that left a notice on his door the previous day.  The notice was regarding an illegal garage conversion and that inspector had this day off.  I took down his name, address and phone number and told him that the inspector would call him on Monday.

He didn't like that idea and said that he wanted me to deal with him now, as in right now.  I explained that I already had a days worth of work planned and the other inspector does most of the code enforcement work.  He shouted, "That's not good enough"......"I called now and I want a resolution now."  I told him that I could not drop what I was doing and rush right over just because he wants that.  He shouted that I am being sarcastic and as a city employee, I am not allowed to be sarcastic.   As the tirade continued, I informed him that I don't work for a city and ended the call.

There he was bellowing the rules of my employment as he, my employer, sees them.  What he doesn't know is that my employer knowingly sends a Tiger to herd rabbits.....it's expected that some fur will fly.

The rodent bought the property nine months ago and obviously he isn't a good fit with the neighborhood.  It takes a certain level of rancor to spur a neighbor into calling the building dept. and quite often the crux of the matter has nothing to do with a code violation.

When that is the case,  I swoop in and the perceived duty is to exact revenge for an unknown, unrelated offense.  The complaint may be about a garage conversion and the matter could be anything from a teenage boy leering at a teenage girl to taking up too many parking spaces on the street.  Both sides see my involvement for what it is, superior brinkmanship.  The unintended consequences can be anything from negligible to catastrophic yet they drop the bomb not knowing if it's a dud or a weapon of mass destruction.


----------



## ICE

4-9-12

He didn't see anything wrong with using a 4"x10" to span 20.5' with a 4"x4" header to hold it up.






The beam sticks past the roof plane so each end has a ridiculous dormer.


----------



## ICE

4-9-12

Is this what they mean by doing it on the down low?


----------



## GBrackins

well if he puts in enough interior load bearing walls to reduce the load, the 4x10 will work .....


----------



## steveray

I love your pictures!.....the Coors light cap explains the water heater pic...although I could probably do better work than most of that after a bottle of Jaeger......


----------



## ICE

4-10-12

I wonder if this huge antenna is compatible with current technology.







It's hard telling what might be living in the Chia tree house.


----------



## ICE

4-10-12

An existing retaining wall was removed without a thought about safety.  Can they be that fearless?


----------



## ICE

4-10-12

Those of you that are well grounded in the electrical trade will spot the oddity.


----------



## fireguy

ICE said:
			
		

> 4-10-12Those of you that are well grounded in the electrical trade will spot the oddity.


Is that a grounding wire secured to the plastic box with an approved clip?


----------



## beach

..Or are you just happy to see me


----------



## ICE

fireguy said:
			
		

> Is that a grounding wire secured to the plastic box with an approved clip?


Yes it is.  The contractor swears that an inspector required it.


----------



## pwood

ICE said:
			
		

> Yes it is. The contractor swears that an inspector required it.


 idiot inspector, sheesh,pffft! every inspector worth his salt knows you're allowed to ground the device with the faceplate screw!


----------



## TheCommish

if we went bak to metal boxes and metal romex clamps we could go back to wraping the ground arond the  sheith and capturing it in the clamp


----------



## ICE

4-11-12

Electrical service upgrade.  The contractor was there to meet me.  I asked him why he didn't put the vent back together.  He said that he found it this way.  I asked him if that was a statement of fact or was that the reason why he didn't put the vent back together.


----------



## ICE

4-11-12

This is a variation of the "I found it that way" slog through life, mutt work.  The job is a furnace replacement.....the A/C coil is existing.  The primary and secondary condensate drains are tied together at the unit and there is a sag in the drain pipe.  I asked the technician if he noticed the sag and he said that the drain pipe is not part of his scope of work.  I revised the scope of work to include the sag in the drain pipe.

Then I gave him a doozy.






It is no small feat to install a furnace in an attic yet it didn't occur to them to secure the vent.


----------



## ICE

4-11-12

The doozy.

Duct strapping is required to be 1.5" wide.  The web stuff that was used collapses.


----------



## ICE

4-11-12

Imagine having this next door.






Four stages.


----------



## Papio Bldg Dept

Had one 20' taller like that in my old neighborhood...every few days the residents would walk out and make adjustments to "thing" ... with tin foil on their heads.


----------



## globe trekker

That antennae array looks like a remote installation for NORAD!


----------



## Papio Bldg Dept

Hey ICE, read a book lately that reminded me of your post last thursday.  One of the main characters was a code enforcement officer, nicknamed the Tiger of Thailand!  He didn't back down to anyone...a potential WMD in code enforcement.


----------



## Alias

That antenne must look real purty at Christmas time when it's all decked out with lights and ornaments. :razz:


----------



## GBrackins

they probably use it to track Santa ...


----------



## ICE

4-12-12

Could've moved the j-box before the platform was nailed down.  Now the NMC will get cut off at the clamp and a new outlet box will be installed.  At least they will be forced to fix the other violation at the j-box.


----------



## ICE

Papio Bldg Dept said:
			
		

> Hey ICE, read a book lately that reminded me of your post last thursday.  One of the main characters was a code enforcement officer, nicknamed the Tiger of Thailand!  He didn't back down to anyone...a potential WMD in code enforcement.


Please tell me the name of the book.


----------



## gbhammer

yeah what's the name of the book?


----------



## Papio Bldg Dept

ICE said:
			
		

> Please tell me the name of the book.


The Read this before finishing the book, and still was suprised by the way the book ended.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Windup_Girl

The Windup Girl by Paolo Bacigalupi

Beginning Summary on the Tiger of Bangkok:

Jaidee Rojjanasukchai, an upright and courageous captain of the white shirts (the armed, enforcement wing of the Environment Ministry), intercepts the dirigible containing, among other things, Anderson's much needed spare tanks, and destroys the contraband. This raises the hackles of the white, foreign trading community in Thailand and they pressure Akkarat to make Jaidee back off. To 'persuade' Jaidee, known as the Tiger of Bangkok for his muay thai skills and courage, and an icon among the white shirts, they kidnap his wife.


----------



## ICE

4-13-12

The work was as big a mess as the plans.  21 corrections without looking at the plans.  I thought of a few more as I was driving away and I'm finding more as I look at the pictures.


----------



## ICE

4-13-12

Furnace replacement.

The contractor is not a small outfit and I think they must go through lots of technicians.  The metal vent extends a few inches into the Transite.  The vent isn't secure because, "Why would such a short vent need to be secured."


----------



## ICE

4-13-12

The correction said to remove the bathtub and install anchor bolts.  I also mentioned that drywall backing is required around the perimeter.  Now I am looking at the picture and I see that there are no studs in the corner.  In my defense, it was a blow and go type of inspection.  Nobody met me, the plans were in a pile, I was up to near 15 when I wrote the tub.  I'll be thorough the next time I'm there and we're at 26 now.


----------



## ICE

4-13-12

I haven't looked at the plans but since there is OSB on the wall with a 4X4 at each end, my assumption is that there is a braced wall happening here.  The foundation has been severed for the building drain and a whole bunch of other stuff.  They can sure make it difficult to help them.

And how about that ABS?  Would you let it be smothered in concrete?  Vent for the water closet?  I haven't a clue as to how the bathtub drains.


----------



## Papio Bldg Dept

go get'em tiger!


----------



## ICE

Wall furnace installation.

When you get done with a job you should always take a quick look around to see if anything is out of the ordinary.


----------



## ICE

4-16-12

I sure get a lot of jacked up wall furnaces.






I bet I've written "Carpet is not permitted beneath the wall furnace" 300 times for this contractor and that's not an exaggeration.  It happened a couple of times last week and now this.  The H/O didn't like the metal floor and I told him that it wasn't necessary, which p!$$ed him off.  I couldn't help but think that I could have been more than just a building inspector.


----------



## ICE

4-17-12

The installer claims that the Safe-T switch is on the secondary condensate but there were no installation instructions on-site to verify that.  It is on the lower port so I do wonder about this.  I wasn't able to get into the attic and had to take the picture from 20' away.


----------



## ICE

4-18-12

The camera fits in my pocket.






18x optical zoom.

The plumbers tape tells me that there's nothing to be concerned about.


----------



## ICE

4-18-12

This is adjustable B vent.  I haven't seen it before today so I asked the installer for the listing info and installation instructions.  He couldn't produce that so he is changing it to regular B vent.  If anybody has info on this, I'd like to hear about it.


----------



## ICE

4-18-12

I wouldn't think it necessary to tell a contractor that he can't reuse this sheet metal.


----------



## ICE

A block and a couple screws will fix this right up.


----------



## KZQuixote

ICE said:
			
		

> 4-18-12I wouldn't think it necessary to tell a contractor that he can't reuse this sheet metal.


Can you quote any section that would prevent use of seemingly fine roof flashings? You could measure the gauge of the sheet metal and dispute the level of galvanization, or you could just move on to to find the next perpetrator.

Foggy


----------



## ICE

KZQuixote said:
			
		

> Can you quote any section that would prevent use of seemingly fine roof flashings? You could measure the gauge of the sheet metal and dispute the level of galvanization, or you could just move on to to find the next prevaricator.Foggy


You know that we do not get along yet you stick your beak where it's not welcome.  I am doing my best to not be mean to you, so please just stay away from me.


----------



## tmurray

KZQuixote said:
			
		

> Can you quote any section that would prevent use of seemingly fine roof flashings? You could measure the gauge of the sheet metal and dispute the level of galvanization, or you could just move on to to find the next prevaricator.Foggy


Some jurisdictions require new materials only. Our By-Laws stipulate new materials for sewerage, water and storm laterals.


----------



## mtlogcabin

ICE said:
			
		

> You know that we do not get along yet you stick your beak where it's not welcome. I am doing my best to not be mean to you, so please just stay away from me.


It was a legit question

104.9.1 Used materials and equipment.

The use of used materials which meet the requirements of this code for new materials is permitted. Used equipment and devices shall not be reused unless approved by the building official .

If used materials are not permitted in your jurisdiction tell us why.  We are on this forum to learn and if a jurisdiction has had a problem with what is allowed by code then please share it so we can address it in our areas if needed.


----------



## brudgers

KZQuixote said:
			
		

> Can you quote any section that would prevent use of seemingly fine roof flashings? You could measure the gauge of the sheet metal and dispute the level of galvanization, or you could just move on to to find the next perpetrator.   Foggy


  I doubt there is a test report per 1506.3


----------



## KZQuixote

brudgers said:
			
		

> I doubt there is a test report per 1506.3


1506.3 Material specifications and physical characteristics. "Roof-covering materials..."

We're talking about four roof jacks and a few stepped shingles that have already outlasted at least one roof and are still in serviceable condition.

How much GREENER can you get?

Foggy Ted


----------



## gbhammer

KZQuixote said:
			
		

> 1506.3 Material specifications and physical characteristics. "Roof-covering materials..."We're talking about four roof jacks and a few stepped shingles that have already outlasted at least one roof and are still in serviceable condition.
> 
> How much GREENER can you get?
> 
> Foggy Ted


http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/daily_living/text/Turf_Houses.htm


----------



## GBrackins

gbhammer said:
			
		

> http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/daily_living/text/Turf_Houses.htm


now you're talking G R E E N!


----------



## brudgers

KZQuixote said:
			
		

> How much GREENER can you get?


  A tar paper shack?


----------



## tmurray

gbhammer said:
			
		

> http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/daily_living/text/Turf_Houses.htm


I've actually been to the one in Newfoudland. It was pretty cool to see, but kind of smoky as they had a fire going in the center of the building, but no chimney, just a hole in the roof for smoke to escape.


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> It was a legit question


A legit question with an answer that is staring him in that blind one eye.

He has insulted me often enough that I try to ignore him.  All I ask is that he stay away from me.

I take exception to being called names up to and including a son of a b!tch.

There is a limit to the crap I will put up with.

There is no limit imposed at this forum.  Well not unless I swing back.....then it becomes a flame war in need of modification.....singular nasty ***** can lay there in perpetuity.

Of late I have assiduously avoided confrontation. That hasn't worked ...... now others call on me to treat him as well as I would a normal person.....  I'll have none of that, thank you.



> "If used materials are not permitted in your jurisdiction tell us why. We are on this forum to learn and if a jurisdiction has had a problem with what is allowed by code then please share it so we can address it in our areas if needed."


I don't owe you anything do I?  You're the one in search of an education.  Let's do it my way.  You show me where in the code that it says that you can use beat and bent step shingles and vent boots that have been mangled with tin snips.

It is especially confounding that you misunderstand such a straightforward example of what not to do and then have the balls to turn it on me.


----------



## ICE

There is a building permit for an addition and new permits for expired (1991) mechanical-electrical-plumbing permits.  The addition was started in 2010 without permit or any inspections. The MEP permits are for a furnace and A/C, water heater and electrical service upgrade.

I was met by a lady. She explained that the first contractor bailed in 2010 and she now had more money.  I am not sure why she has decided to obtain permits.  She intends to hire workman and she wants me to tell her what to tell them to do.  The building permit includes a 500sq.ft. addition and patio cover that are yet to be started.

I didn't want to tell her that I am not the superintendent and she is convinced that one of the benefits of a permit is that the inspector takes over. If you knew what the permits set her back, you might agree with her.  I advised her that she needs to hire a contractor or a corner crew that know what to do.  She told me that she has someone in mind but they need to know where I want them to start.  I told her to put that person in front of me and I will assess what can be accomplished.  Well she's not going along with that and respectfully insisted that I get her started.

The addition appears to be built in an acceptable fashion.  Some floor sheathing is to be removed and destructive investigation of the foundation will take place.

The expired permits were taken out by contractors and I didn't have time to look at any of that but there's bound to be some expense with those.  If nothing else, the electrical was done many code cycles ago.
















Been like this since 1991.






Knowing that this was done by an unlicensed bandit, I am surprised that there is an extension of the wall to the rafters.  The windows will be in-filled and bracing will occur.  It would have been so much better with solid blocking and the roof sheathing nailed to the blocking.  I don't think there is a rafter tie, the stucco is done so I have no clue if the windows are installed correctly, braced walls weren't inspected, anchor bolts and HDs are unknown.


----------



## KZQuixote

ICE said:
			
		

> A legit question with an answer that is staring him in that blind one eye.  He has insulted me often enough that I try to ignore him.  All I ask is that he stay away from me.
> 
> I take exception to being called names up to and including a son of a b!tch.
> 
> There is a limit to the crap I will put up with.
> 
> There is no limit imposed at this forum.  Well not unless I swing back.....then it becomes a flame war in need of modification.....singular nasty ***** can lay there in perpetuity.
> 
> Of late I have assiduously avoided confrontation. (And no Fatboy, that doesn't mean that he is gay)  That hasn't worked ...... now others call on me to treat him as well as I would a normal person.....  I'll have none of that, thank you.
> 
> I don't owe you anything do I?  You're the one in search of an education.  Let's do it my way.  You show me where in the code that it says that you can use beat and bent step shingles and vent boots that have been mangled with tin snips.
> 
> It is especially confounding that you misunderstand such a straightforward example of what not to do and then have the balls to turn it on me.


Ice said: "I take exception to being called names up to and including a son of a b!tch."

Ice,

I only call you when you start on this Interglactic Ice Code Stuff ( your title not mine ).

All of my posts are here as well are the reposted personal messages that you chose to make public before you shut them down. You will never find "son of a bitch" in anything I've posted or sent your way by PM.

TBO and I have been disparaged several times in your misogynist  rants.

Regarding the mangled vent boots: its not like they're going to be mangled once again. They're going to be fitted back onto the same pipes they've protected for many years.

Grow up, and try to refrain from requiring the citizenry to dance to your pipe.

Foggy


----------



## ICE

KZQuixote said:
			
		

> Ice said: "I take exception to being called names up to and including a son of a b!tch."Ice,
> 
> I only call you when you start on this Interglactic Ice Code Stuff ( your title not mine ).
> 
> All of my posts are here as well are the reposted personal messages that you chose to make public before you shut them down. You will never find "son of a bitch" in anything I've posted or sent your way by PM.
> 
> TBO and I have been disparaged several times in your misogynist  rants.
> 
> Regarding the mangled vent boots: its not like they're going to be mangled once again. They're going to be fitted back onto the same pipes they've protected for many years.
> 
> Grow up, and try to refrain from requiring the citizenry to dance to your pipe.
> 
> Foggy


Here you are,



> Actually I've been exchanging with the SOB (slightly different acronym) all along.Bill/Foghorn


What is it that drives you to provoke me?  If I knew the answer, perhaps I could find a way to eliminate the trigger.  I am willing to work with you on this and it makes sense that we stay away from each other.  That's not asking for too much.  You'll notice that I never post in a thread that you started nor do I comment on anything you say in other threads.  I stay away from you.  Please afford me the same.

I don't like participating in rancorous discussion.  The people that read what we do here deserve better than that.  Please stay away from me.


----------



## ICE

http://www.wimp.com/batinfestation/

http://www.wimp.com/snowtrain/

http://www.wimp.com/insanebuilding/

http://www.wimp.com/manbefriends/

http://www.wimp.com/xiongear/

http://www.wimp.com/viewworld/

http://www.wimp.com/bandsawmagic/


----------



## ICE

"But that's where it was before and an inspector approved it"


----------



## ICE

If a water heater is installed outside, is a vent a waste of material?


























It was a long time ago that I noticed this.  I stopped and left a notice on the door to call me.  The owner did call and I asked him to change this because I thought it is a fire hazard.  I must worry too much because it's not been changed and the building hasn't burned.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Keep up the good work ICE, I enjoy the pics, and information you provide. I have not mastered the picture sharing that you provide us yet.

Thanks

pc1


----------



## ICE

The opposite of value engineering.


----------



## Alias

ICE -

Do you give out ribbons for the most innovative way to install an exterior water heater and vent?  If so, I think #5 deserves the blue ribbon!  :mrgreen:


----------



## globe trekker

ICE,

Enjoy the pics.!   Keep `em coming!


----------



## brudgers

Alias said:
			
		

> ICE -  Do you give out ribbons for the most innovative way to install an exterior water heater and vent?  If so, I think #5 deserves the blue ribbon!  :mrgreen:


  The highest award is a red tag.


----------



## mmmarvel

Good Lord ICE - you DO have a creative bunch in your jurisdiction.  And just when you think you've seen it all, bang, they come up with another one.  Absolutely love the pictures, always have, thanks for the extra learning (and ooohs and ahhhhs) on your 'dime'.  Others can say what they will, I enjoy and appreciate your pictures and knowledge.


----------



## GBrackins

I agree with mmmarvel, great photos. of course I've hurt my neck a time or two from shaking my head and wondering "what were they thinking???????" thank you for your posts no matter what others may say


----------



## ICE

There are eight of these on a school.  Tough neighborhood.


----------



## ICE

I don't know what life form carried this junk into the enclosure.

Every electrician should have a vacuum cleaner.

It should be worth a re-inspection fee if it's there for me to find.


----------



## ICE

There's a lot of it on this roof.

They used drywall screws.

The pattern of the replaced wood gave the appearance of selling up.


----------



## brudgers

ICE said:
			
		

> There's a lot of it on this roof.   They used drywall screws.   The pattern of the replaced wood gave the appearance of selling up.


  The white paint makes it green...or is that drywall held down by the drywall screws?


----------



## fireguy

ICE said:
			
		

> There are eight of these on a school.  Tough neighborhood.


Are the cages to keep the children in or out?


----------



## Frank

fireguy said:
			
		

> Are the cages to keep the children in or out?


Looks like it meets the locking caps for the refrigerent requirement.


----------



## ICE

The contractor requested a lath inspection.  He and his two man crew waited half of the day for my inspection.  The windows are set with drywall screws.....the window flashing is not correct.....there is no weep screed........the paper isn't caulked to the ABS.......and there is no lath.  There they sat when I drove up......I thought that it's too bad that they have to lose a half days work waiting for me.






The next day.


----------



## ICE

At the footing inspection I wrote a correction to remove the overhang extension.  I guess they didn't think I was serious.


----------



## ICE

A well known contractor produced this.


----------



## ICE

If you are ever in need of a circus act, Home Depot is the place to go.


----------



## ICE

The contractor saw my smile and asked what was wrong.

I told him that I would tell him at the end of the inspection unless he figured it out first.






I had to tell him.

That's kinda sad huh.


----------



## MtnArch

"Cirque de Home Depot"?


----------



## ICE

Detached six car garage.


----------



## TheCommish

i am not an electrican nor do I do electrical inspections, but it seems to me the white taped conductor should be where the blue one is.


----------



## ICE

TheCommish said:
			
		

> i am not an electrican nor do I do electrical inspections, but it seems to me the white taped conductor should be where the blue one is.


The blue labeled conductor should be where the white is now and the white should be on an isolated bus bar.  An equipment ground should have been pulled with the feeder.


----------



## pwood

you make everything so complicated. just change the colors of the tape! sheesh


----------



## ICE

Well they finally got a lath inspection with the lath installed.


----------



## ICE

No Thanks.


----------



## ICE

A contractor has built a carport without a permit.  He called it a termite repair.  He won't be eager to do that again.


----------



## ICE

It's a good thing that I got there early so I could get them started in the right direction.


----------



## pwood

paper facing down?


----------



## GBrackins

looks like unfaced


----------



## globe trekker

What's going to hold the insulation in place for years, ..eeerrr, hours,  to come?


----------



## KZQuixote

globe trekker said:
			
		

> What's going to hold the insulation in place for years, ..eeerrr, hours,  to come?


I'd bet they strung the bottom of the joists before they started laying the insulation.

Foggy


----------



## ICE

Yesterday was slow.  I had 6 inspections and a carnival.  One of the inspections was a residential fire job.  The inspection request said framing and all the roughs.  The work wasn't ready for inspection but the foreman asked me to take a look around and give him a heads up if a see any corrections.

Violations flowed like corn through a duck.  When I hit 28 I decided to stop or it might look like I unloaded on him.

The contractor called this morning to ask about #11.  It said "That's a big NO to the water heater shed."


----------



## ICE

The contractor called me this morning to request an inspection of a gas pipe that he replaced without a permit.  There is no permit because it was an emergency repair.  He said he would be in the office within the hour to get a permit.  I told him that I would do the inspection.

The pipe is 8" deep and the occupant tells me that there hasn't been gas service for 8 months.


----------



## ICE

They are needlessly stringing this job along.


----------



## KZQuixote

ICE said:
			
		

> They are needlessly stringing this job along.


While strings may work well for insulation, they ain't much for plumbing. Are you suggesting that the plumber was satisfied with the temporary strings?

Foggy


----------



## ICE

Carnival inspection.  The slide is covered with Plexiglas that is coming apart.  The hole is a perfect size and shape to remove a hand.


----------



## brudgers

ICE said:
			
		

> Carnival inspection.  The slide is covered with Plexiglas that is coming apart.  The hole is a perfect size and shape to remove a hand.


  Did you say "rotating knives?"


----------



## ICE

5-7-12

The man on top is beating the overhang apart with a sledge hammer.


----------



## GBrackins

ICE said:
			
		

> The man on top is beating the overhang apart with a sledge hammer.


I think I saw that once in a movie ....


----------



## pwood

GBrackins said:
			
		

> I think I saw that once in a movie ....


  i saw it in a bugs bunny cartoon or was it the roadrunner and wiley coyote?


----------



## steveray

Back to the water heater....besides B-vent clearance, the PVC discharge pipe, and maybe combustion air (although I can't imagine it being built that tight...)....What else is wrong?


----------



## ICE

steveray said:
			
		

> Back to the water heater....besides B-vent clearance, the PVC discharge pipe, and maybe combustion air (although I can't imagine it being built that tight...)....What else is wrong?


The enclosure is attached to the building.  As such, it must be built just like any other addition.


----------



## ICE

5-8-12

Never trust anyone else for your safety.


----------



## ICE




----------



## brudgers

pwood said:
			
		

> i saw it in a bugs bunny cartoon or was it the roadrunner and wiley coyote?


  Three Stooges.  See photo.


----------



## ICE




----------



## MtnArch

Now that's just twisted!


----------



## ICE

You have all eaten in one of this chains 35,000 restaurants.


----------



## ICE

Do you ask for a papered edge on the drywall and a 1/4" gap.


----------



## ICE

This is in a nice neighborhood and nobody has complained.


----------



## ICE

The person that called me complained that the street was blocked for a few hours last Saturday by a crane.  The crane was used to set this 12'x16' Tuff shed in the front yard.

The property owner inherited the shed.  He said it was to be used a play house for his grandchildren.  He suspects that a neighbor called the building dept.  He asked me what he should do and I suggested a bigger crane that can reach the back yard.  In the long run, that free shed will cost more than it's worth.


----------



## fireguy

ICE said:
			
		

> You have all eaten in one of this chains 35,000 restaurants.


Fryers look different when they are tipped over, don't they?  Looks like the work of a clown.


----------



## Mule

ICE said:
			
		

> The person that called me complained that the street was blocked for a few hours last Saturday by a crane.  The crane was used to set this 12'x16' Tuff shed in the front yard.The property owner inherited the shed.  He said it was to be used a play house for his grandchildren.  He suspects that a neighbor called the building dept.  He asked me what he should do and I suggested a bigger crane that can reach the back yard.  In the long run, that free shed will cost more than it's worth.


If it's behind the building line is it still a problem? It looks to be even with the front of the house? Also... is it excempt from permits? Under 200 sq. ft.


----------



## ICE

Mule said:
			
		

> If it's behind the building line is it still a problem? It looks to be even with the front of the house? Also... is it excempt from permits? Under 200 sq. ft.


It looks great huh.  So planning has a say in that.  120 square feet is our cut-off for a permit.  With this guy's luck, he'll have to dig up the sewer too.


----------



## pwood

our front setbacks are 20' or 60' for unattached accessory buildings. attach the thing to the house and problem goes away.


----------



## ICE

Engineers can make the impossible possible.


----------



## ICE

8" thick slab, #4 bar 6"oc., 4000psi concrete.  All that for an electrical equipment pad at a cellular tower site.

They failed for lack of impalement protection and no ufer.


----------



## pyrguy

You do OSHA inspections too?? I didn't think the codes said anything about caps on re-bar.

If the verticals are tied into the grid why could you not bond there?

Great pictures keep them coming. I've a lot of things in my career but some of your pictures blow me away with the 'creativity' of some people.


----------



## ICE

pyrguy said:
			
		

> You do OSHA inspections too?? I didn't think the codes said anything about caps on re-bar. If the verticals are tied into the grid why could you not bond there?


It has to be safe enough for me to be there.  I have met too many people that have been impaled.  And yes we do enforce OSHA regs to the extent that we have been trained.  That includes excavations, ladders, scaffolding, electrical and a few more.  While the focus is on our own safety, I am concerned about the safety of others and it shows.  Any time anyone questions my authority to enforce OSHA regs I tell them to ask OSHA about that. I even offer to call OSHA from the job site.  So far, nobody has taken me up on my offer.

The vertical steel that you see is inside a CMU wall and not long enough in the footing.


----------



## imhotep

ICE said:
			
		

> 8" thick slab, #4 bar 6"oc., 4000psi concrete.  All that for an electrical equipment pad at a cellular tower site.They failed for lack of impalement protection and no uffer.


Is a ufer required in your jurisdiction?  It would seem so, but thought I'd ask anyway.


----------



## ICE

imhotep said:
			
		

> Is a ufer required in your jurisdiction?  It would seem so, but thought I'd ask anyway.


If it is available, per the NEC, it must be used.


----------



## ICE

This is a temporary restroom at a Wal-Mart during a remodel.

I figured that the odds of getting sued for lack of ADA was less than the likelihood of getting sued for indecent exposure.  There is no latch on the door and the urinal is right there in a kid's face.


----------



## ICE

The home owner didn't like the noise the furnace made so several years ago, he got busy with some sheet metal.  The contractor that installed the replacement furnace didn't remove the sheet metal because he knows that there shall be a separation of the return air and combustion air.  What he didn't do is provide a source of combustion air.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Darren Emery

ICE said:
			
		

> The vertical steel that you see is inside a CMU wall and not long enough in the footing.


It looks like those uprights are tied to the footing steel.  If so - now you have plenty of bar in the footing.  There's nothing that I know of that says the bar that comes up has to be a certain length in the footing - just connected to at least 20'.


----------



## ICE

Darren,

All of that steel will be in the walls and not available for a ufer.

The bottom leg on the verts is usually short enough to fit in the trench (8" to 12") and that limits its connection to the longitudinal steel to two points.  I ask for a 20' stick to start with that is tied to the footing steel.  Where a configuration does not allow a 20' stick, whatever will fit and tie to the bottom footing steel is what we get.


----------



## steveray

If it is 20' of rebar....it's a ufer...I have been calling that alot this season....



			
				ICE said:
			
		

> If it is available, per the NEC, it must be used.


----------



## steveray

Is that crazy foam? or gorilla glue with the CSST? Can you use that instead of the hardened steel plates?


----------



## ICE

This is ridiculous but oh so true.  An inspection was requested even though no permit is required.


























The glaring mistake here is a waste of sono tube.  There should be a foot of tube at the top and that's it.  The holes are much bigger than the tube so the result will be a concrete shaft in non-compacted soil.  The fix is to fill the annular space between the tube and the hole with concrete.


----------



## ICE

All three windows are required to be tempered but they aren't.  The H/O said, "No problem, my contractor is Home Depot."


----------



## ICE

Do you require epoxy to secure dowels?






OOPS! Why did you wait for me to find it.


----------



## ICE

This job is going to be difficult.  The building foundation is 1.5 feet wider than the plans show and now the addition is large enough to require school fees.  Pictures really don't do it justice.  It's a mess.





















None of the interior footings are on the plans.  That was the last correction and when he saw it he said, "Those footings are on the other set of plans."






However this addition turns out, it's bound to be an improvement on what's there now.


----------



## ICE

This beam has been exposed for two weeks.  When I pointed it out, the contractor acted surprised.






one end






the other end


----------



## ICE

As soon as I hit the roof I new the osb sagged too much.  Contractors will wait for the inspector to write a correction so as to make the sale for them.  What if I had been a lazy inspector that doesn't climb ladders?  I suppose someone would have a messed up roof huh.


----------



## Mac

For a project that doesn't need a permit, it looks better than most of the pics you post!

Keep 'em coming!


----------



## Mac

OOops I meant the sonotube pour!


----------



## steveray

Well.....if that is the way the engineer drew it......... 



			
				ICE said:
			
		

> This beam has been exposed for two weeks.  When I pointed it out, the contractor acted surprised.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> one end
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the other end


----------



## mtlogcabin

> Do you require epoxy to secure dowels?


Not in a non-structural slab

The rebar is only there to control cracking and is not required by code (might be required in CA)


----------



## ICE

Skinny ladders bother me.






But thankfully, they were bothered too so they tied the ladder with lamp cord.






And after climbing that skinny ladder, this is a sample of what I found.






There was too much of this.






There is a realtor's key box so I assume that a bank or a flipper owns the property.  The only permit is for the re-roof and there is at least two bathrooms and a kitchen's worth of crap in the back yard.  There were people inside but they wouldn't answer the door.


----------



## ICE

It is a grand old home with a service upgrade.


----------



## ICE

In the basement of a restaurant.  Water lines and waste pipes over the 800 amp service.


----------



## pwood

looks like they are 5 hoops short of complying with the drawing in post #240. Do you write a correction notice for a non-permitted,not required inspection? do you reinspect it?


----------



## ICE

No pwood, I didn't write corrections.  I did suggest that he scrap the plan.  Instead of embedding a 4"x4" he will install post bases.


----------



## ICE

The plumber got upset when I asked him to expose the pipe for under-slab inspection.


----------



## ICE

Is this what "workman like manner" is all about.  It looks like automotive fuel line has been used for water pipe.  I am curious about the ground clamp too.


----------



## ICE

The water heater has been moved about a foot.  The vent passes through a concrete floor/ceiling.  The vent was mangled when it was taken apart.  Now what?

I am being told that the ABS, copper and foam were all in contact with the vent for many years.  I don't think so.


----------



## Alias

ICE said:
			
		

> A well known contractor produced this.


Gee, and the topiary matches.  Isn't that special!  :mrgreen:

Sue


----------



## Alias

Tiger -

Thanks for the great pictures, keep 'em coming.

Sue


----------



## ICE

A poor mans' tar pot.  Considering that roofing tar must be 550 degrees, these guys are taking a chance.


----------



## ICE

I find it hard to believe that this retaining wall was constructed without a barrier on the top.












The other side of the wall.


----------



## ICE

I always require that the BW vent info be visible at the time of inspection of a wall furnace.  Many contractors have complained about that and claim that I am being ridiculous because B vent is no longer manufactured.

I found this today.


----------



## ICE

First time that I've seen this on a re-roof.

Bit of an odd arrangement with the vents too.


----------



## ICE

Alias said:
			
		

> Gee, and the topiary matches.  Isn't that special!  :mrgreen:Sue


Sue,

This picture was supposed to be there too.  Something happened to the file and it has been deleted from the thread.






Here's something extra, http://www.wimp.com/insanechance/


----------



## ICE

This building is on a nature preserve that is owned by the state.  The problem is that it was built by a neighbor without permission.  The state sued the neighbor to remove it.  The neighbor counter-sued the state claiming adverse possession.  I was asked to inspect the structure to determine if it is a hazard.











And to think that I used to eat these tick magnets.


----------



## ICE

Never seen black copper pipe before.


----------



## mtlogcabin

I noticed all  the drain wastes vent piping in your pics are ABS and no PVC is that a California thing or just a contractors preference?


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> I noticed all  the drain wastes vent piping in your pics are ABS and no PVC is that a California thing or just a contractors preference?


Our code allows PVC dwv so I guess it's the contractors choice.

I do see PVC dwv now and then.

There was a tract a few years ago that used PVC on about 40 houses.

I checked the prices on the Internet and PVC is less expensive.

It was a surprise to see how much fittings cost.

That explains the missing trap on the clothes washer standpipe.

It's kinda funny that they would bother to install a vent but no trap.


----------



## ICE

I bet that the ceiling cost as much as the rest of the construction.


----------



## ICE

I pointed out this sag and missing supports a week before this happened.











It's a small leak and there was a lot of water on the floor.






Here's a food related video:  http://www.wimp.com/vegetablemarket/


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:
			
		

>


OK, it is supposed to be shoring or formwork?  It's about as bad no matter which one it is supposed to be!


----------



## ICE

Msradell said:
			
		

> OK, it is supposed to be shoring or formwork?  It's about as bad no matter which one it is supposed to be!


Shoring in a shallow trench.


----------



## pwood

ICE said:
			
		

> I bet that the ceiling cost as much as the rest of the construction.


looks like the carpenter lost his head on the table saw. a great picture showing why you leave the guard on!


----------



## TheCommish

Ice,

How do you gey the full size photed into your posts, please and thank you


----------



## Mac

I have seen the black copper pipes in homes with exreme sulfur water. The sulfur fumes cause copper to turn black, and the copper can degrade and become paper thin, then leak.


----------



## ICE

TheCommish said:
			
		

> Ice,How do you gey the full size photed into your posts, please and thank you


I use photobucket.  It's easy to create a free account and easy enough to use.  I have over 700 pictures there so far and I don't know what the limit might be.  There is a scary down side....If photobucket crashes, all of the pictures here will go away.....and I'm not gonna start over.

Each day produces pictures.  I am surprised that pictures never caught on here.


----------



## ICE

The way this is set up, there will be a slab with an 8" curb around the entire addition.  The plans show a conventional slab with no curb.  If this is what they want, I say OK but get it on a set of plans.  The curb will be 6" wide so all the walls will now be 2"x6" or there will be a big fat lip.


----------



## ICE

I see bent nails on windows a lot.  I don't know what the advantage might be.  I always ask for the correct nails.






I always hear, "Why does it matter?"  If I look hard enough I have the answer for them.


----------



## ICE

This was a sewer inspection.  The pipe is buried except at the fittings.  The correction said, "Remove the dirt for inspection and prepare to place slurry where the sewer is adjacent to the building's foundation."


----------



## KZQuixote

ICE said:
			
		

> I see bent nails on windows a lot.  I don't know what the advantage might be.  I always ask for the correct nails.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look closely you'll see the large headed nails that are meant to hold the window. The bent over nails are a crude attempt to anchor the stucco patch.
> 
> Foggy


----------



## ICE

KZQuixote said:
			
		

> ICE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see bent nails on windows a lot.  I don't know what the advantage might be.  I always ask for the correct nails.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look closely you'll see the large headed nails that are meant to hold the window. The bent over nails are a crude attempt to anchor the stucco patch.
> 
> Foggy
Click to expand...

I made them add the roofing nails.  Holding the stucco with bent nails?????  The lath is coming soon.  Have you ever "Gotten it"?


----------



## brudgers

ICE said:
			
		

> I use photobucket.  It's easy to create a free account and easy enough to use.  I have over 700 pictures there so far and I don't know what the limit might be.  There is a scary down side....If photobucket crashes, all of the pictures here will go away.....and I'm not gonna start over.  Each day produces pictures.  I am surprised that pictures never caught on here.


  There was an inspector, I think by the name of Shirley, who I hear got in trouble for posting photos from his job.


----------



## Paul Sweet

Mac said:
			
		

> I have seen the black copper pipes in homes with exreme sulfur water. The sulfur fumes cause copper to turn black, and the copper can degrade and become paper thin, then leak.


Chinese drywall is just as effective!


----------



## ICE

brudgers said:
			
		

> There was an inspector, I think by the name of Shirley, who I hear got in trouble for posting photos from his job.


I hadn't heard about that.  Prudance tells me that I should stop refering to Shirley.


----------



## ICE

Off in the distance I saw something unusual.  I took a picture but couldn't make out what it is until I got home and loaded the picture into my computer.  The stuff is miscellaneous car parts (mostly radiators) and a whole bunch of windshields.


----------



## ICE

A&B are both hot from the POCO but one is just sitting there with a layer of tape over the end.


----------



## ICE

A week ago, a correction was left that said that shingles aren't allowed on a roof that's pitched below 2" in 12".  The contractor didn't contact us and did call for re-inspection today.  When I arrived, the contractor first made the argument that since he tore off a shingle roof, he is allowed to replace it with a shingle roof.  When that didn't work he said that the roof is over 2" pitch and his level is on the roof if I need proof.






He didn't know that I had a better level in my back pocket.


----------



## ICE

Wide open and live.


----------



## ICE

We might be making it too easy to get a permit.  This isn't in our jurisdiction and they were disappointed that I wouldn't sign the card.  Then they got angry at me because they went to the wrong office to obtain a permit.

I had to drive over there because nobody answered the phone and I was berated for the effort.


----------



## TheCommish

ICE said:
			
		

> I use photobucket.  It's easy to create a free account and easy enough to use.  I have over 700 pictures there so far and I don't know what the limit might be.  There is a scary down side....If photobucket crashes, all of the pictures here will go away.....and I'm not gonna start over.Each day produces pictures.  I am surprised that pictures never caught on here.


ICE more help please, set up the photobucke account, now need to understand how you insert photo that is not a link, thank you again


----------



## ICE

A few oddities here.


----------



## ICE

Some fancy carpentry here.  The roof has a 4" dip.  The other side is just as bad.






This is a sample of the framing.  Note that the wall intersection isn't nailed because there is no channel stud and the top plate breaks are next to each other.  None of the corners are nailed together.  I stopped at 18 corrections without looking at the plans.


----------



## ICE

Does it matter that the nail hasn't engaged the washer?


----------



## ICE

The stuff I have to tell them.


----------



## ICE

The permit says "Repair pool and add a spa.  There was a pre-gunite inspection done by another inspector.  The owner met me today for a pre-plaster inspection.  I commented that the pool is new, not repaired.  He said yes, the old pool was demolished and this is all new.  It is the same with the Patio cover which has no permit.

Then the pool contractor showed up.  He swears up and down that the pool was always there and all that he added was the spa.  He also doesn't understand why a patio cover repair would require a permit.

Then I brought up the fence and gate requirements.  Oh my gosh!   The owner went ballistic.  The entire property needs new fence and gates.  So the contractor knew all along that the fence is illegal and when I cite it I get screamed at.  Wait until they find out how wrong the patio cover is.


----------



## ICE

I was looking for a drain pipe so I stuck the camera in the crawl hole.  Hard telling what this is.


----------



## ICE

The piece of wood under the floor joist is there to hold the wire away from the copper pipe.  The wire is the only thing holding the piece of wood in place.  There are about a dozen of these.  And this is a contractor's work.


----------



## GBrackins

ICE said:
			
		

> I was looking for a drain pipe so I stuck the camera in the crawl hole.  Hard telling what this is.


telephone jack?


----------



## mmmarvel

ICE said:
			
		

> This was a sewer inspection.  The pipe is buried except at the fittings.  The correction said, "Remove the dirt for inspection and prepare to place slurry where the sewer is adjacent to the building's foundation."


Depends on what the meaning of "Remove the dirt ..." is.  Hey if Clinton and Edwards can play that game, so can the contractor.


----------



## brudgers

ICE said:
			
		

> I was looking for a drain pipe so I stuck the camera in the crawl hole.  Hard telling what this is.


  Obviously a shrine for worship of the Flying Spaghetti Monster replete with icon.  May you be touched by His Noodlie Appendage.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:
			
		

> I was looking for a drain pipe so I stuck the camera in the crawl hole.  Hard telling what this is.


Ma Bell at her finest!


----------



## ICE

I almost climbed this ladder.  It came apart when I tried to extend it.


----------



## ICE

This 2"x4" is the only thing keeping this from falling away from the building.  Well there is the weight of the ladder.






It's not nailed.


----------



## ICE

I get the feeling that the hole in the ledger is too big.


----------



## ICE

The J-box is inside the BBQ island.  If you want to open the J-box, you will be inside the BBQ island.  That's not a code violation.....Just rude


----------



## danhiman

ICE you might know this, I remember reading in the IBC or IRC regarding insulating before the roof and exterior sheeting is in progress, but can't seem to find it now. Is it in the Appendix?


----------



## TheCommish

ICE said:
			
		

> I almost climbed this ladder.  It came apart when I tried to extend it.


why would you want to clime that ladder to get to that crappy staging?


----------



## ICE

danhiman said:
			
		

> ICE you might know this, I remember reading in the IBC or IRC regarding insulating before the roof and exterior sheeting is in progress, but can't seem to find it now. Is it in the Appendix?


I don't recall seeing that in any code.  It makes sense.  Much like "no stucco prior to drywall" but that's not in the code either.


----------



## ICE

TheCommish said:
			
		

> why would you want to climb that ladder to get to that crappy staging?


Different ladder.


----------



## pwood

danhiman said:
			
		

> ICE you might know this, I remember reading in the IBC or IRC regarding insulating before the roof and exterior sheeting is in progress, but can't seem to find it now. Is it in the Appendix?


section R109.1.4 would cover that. can't install romex in a wet location would also cover that shirley.


----------



## Kevin Turner

ICE you might know this, I remember reading in the IBC or IRC regarding insulating before the roof and exterior sheeting is in progress, but can't seem to find it now. Is it in the Appendix?

2003 IRC R701.2 and for drywall 2003 IBC 2508.2.1


----------



## codeworks

why would one insulate before you could insure that it wouldn't get wet.  you could refer to/use  R109.`1.5  IRC " other inspections" fill in the blanks, and 109.3.8 IBC (2006 here) again, fill in the blanks, `105.2 of the energy code, just a few


----------



## globe trekker

Looks like "ICE" is going to be employed for a very, very long time to come!   :inspctr


----------



## TheCommish

ICE said:
			
		

> Different ladder.


ah yes you are correct, looks to be the same model ladder leanig against a roof


----------



## ICE

We've come a long way when it comes to anchor bolts.  The washers are all off center so I assume that the pin was shot through the washer.  Must have taken a musket.


----------



## ICE

I find the GEC stapled to the wall quite often.  It always gets done over because it interrupts the stucco.  There is a connection to a ufer behind the mud ring.


----------



## ICE

The Green Code encourages recycling but it just won't work with retrofit windows.


----------



## ICE

Fire job:

I see purlins braced like this a lot.  How could they not understand such a basic principle as this?






Another thing I see a lot is no blocking where ceiling joists bear on wall plates.  How is it that we lost our understanding of this principle?


----------



## ICE

The lady from post#166 on page five got some of the floor sheathing removed.  The prints call for post and girder.  The room is 14' wide with 2"x8" floor joist with this in the middle.


----------



## ICE

This is plumbed with gas for a decorative fire pit.  When I explained that it is not legal to burn gas he said that he would remove the gas and burn wood.  There again, I suspect that the Air Quality Management District would say no, but I'm not sure about that.

I do wonder if burning wood in this pit will result in an explosion of the bricks and or mortar due to trapped moisture.


----------



## ICE

Now that's a rain gutter you can clean with a push broom.


----------



## ICE

Kevin Turner said:
			
		

> ICE you might know this, I remember reading in the IBC or IRC regarding insulating before the roof and exterior sheeting is in progress, but can't seem to find it now. Is it in the Appendix? 2003 IRC R701.2 and for drywall 2003 IBC 2508.2.1


Well guys, I've led you astray.  When I said no stucco prior to drywall I meant only the plaster and not the lath.  If there is green plaster on the walls it's not a good idea to be banging on the inside of the walls whilst hanging drywall.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

The project is an addition that joins the dwelling and the garage to create an office.

The plans specified 5/8" Titan anchors with 5" into concrete at 8" on center.  The contractor opted for 3/4" with 7.5" into concrete.  The concrete can't handle it and broke out.  After the fourth Titan was installed, somebody noticed the spalling and they stopped.  Now there will be epoxy bolts.


----------



## ICE

Once a week I've got to say no to a wall furnace.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

The permit said "Hydrogen collection system" so I was expecting something fancy.  This is over a battery charging area for the forklifts.  Their insurance company required the collection system.  There were four fans with two as backup. These fans are not listed for a classified location.  There is no hydrogen to collect.  Everything was removed when they found out what a real hydrogen collection system would cost.  I did give them the option to void the permit and take out a new permit for exhaust fans.


----------



## ICE

This was on the wall next to the job card on a re-roof final inspection. It is a self declaration that there are smoke detectors installed per the code.  I am being asked to accept this in lieu of seeing the detectors because it's a hassle for the owner to arrange an inspection.


----------



## ICE

I was in the office when the call came in.  The requester wanted a pre-saturation inspection.  The clerk put the contractor on hold and asked me if we do such an inspection.  I said no we don't but it sounds like I better go see what they're up to.






The confusion arose because the plans have a note that says soil shall be saturated and they haven't a clue as to what that means.  So when in doubt, request an inspection.  Well it turned out to be their lucky day.  Now they know what saturation is all about and they also found out that the footing is going to be 6" deeper before they finished the form-work.


----------



## ICE

Here we go again.  No permit.....no plans.....no engineering.....no idea what OSHA approved means.  It is a good sign that they did place the wrong re-bar caps.


----------



## ICE

I happened upon this house being remodeled.  I walked into the kitchen when the workman told me that the owner gave him instructions that if a building inspector shows up, he is to tell the inspector that he is not allowed on the property.











I just couldn't get comfortable swimming in a pool right under power lines.






The garage used to be a carport.  The conversion appears to be bootlegged so I tossed that in for good measure.


----------



## ICE

This was first mentioned in post #277.  The plans show a conventional slab.  I asked for an approved plan showing the curb.  It is more about making sure that everybody knows what is going on.






And there it is .... your typical garage/living room.


----------



## mtlogcabin

> I walked into the kitchen when the workman told me that the owner gave him instructions that if a building inspector shows up, he is to tell the inspector that he is not allowed on the property.


And you went in anyway? Sounds like trespass, I believe the code is pretty specific about what an inspector is to do when refused entry.

Maybe California is different


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> And you went in anyway? Sounds like trespass, I believe the code is pretty specific about what an inspector is to do when refused entry.Maybe California is different


As soon as he said it, I stopped and went back the way I came.  You mention the code "what to do" when this happens but I have never done that.  I'm sorry but I can't tell you how I handle that because...well then anybody could do it and you really shouldn't try it at home.

I don't know about California being different but I'm pretty sure that I am.....different that is.


----------



## ICE

Getting this job through the foundation was no small feat.

I spent ten minutes trying to explain a ufer when the owner showed up.

So I had to start over and explain it to her so that she could explain it to them.

I was 15 minutes into it when one of the men asked if they could install the ufer after they pour the concrete.

I said that the language barrier is proving to be a problem.

She said "You are the problem"...."If you would just keep on driving and leave us alone it will go a lot faster"

They asked for raised floor framing today.  The joists are waaaaay out of square to the foundation.






This job should produce some great pictures.  We are in-store for mistakes that none of us have ever seen.


----------



## ICE

The pool has no permits.  The company that built it seldom gets a permit.  I am but one inspector and I've run into their mistakes a half dozen times.  They shout at me when I call them.  The home owners are sometimes left on their own to deal with problems like electrical service drops too close to the pool, safety glazing in windows that are too close to the pool, etc.  They don't give a thought to a barrier and won't even discuss it with the owners.


----------



## fireguy

Does your jurisdiction have a process for revoking the contractor's license?  Oregon does, and the resultes are posted on the Construction Contractor Board.


----------



## ICE

fireguy,

California does have a process but to get it started with a company of this size, the company would have to first, screw the Governor.


----------



## mark handler

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> And you went in anyway? Sounds like trespass, I believe the code is pretty specific about what an inspector is to do when refused entry.Maybe California is different


California Code of Civil Procedure Section

RIGHT OF ENTRY FOR INSPECTION

".........whenever there is reasonable cause to believe there exists a state or municipal code violation in any building or upon any premises within the jurisdiction of the city, any authorized official of the city may, upon presentation of proper credentials, enter such building or premises at all reasonable times to inspect the same or to perform any duty imposed upon him or her by ordinance....."

http://www.codepublishing.com/ca/chulavista/html/chulavista01/ChulaVista0116.html


----------



## ICE

I think I screwed up.  The job is a re-roof with asphalt shingles.  The rolls are a product named Therma Sheet.  It is a foil adhered to a closed cell foam.  It is a radiant barrier.  I questioned having a soft substrate over the plywood.  The contractor assured me (from his office) that he has a document from the shingle manufacturer allowing the material under their shingles.  I gave him a proceed at your own risk approval pending the proof of acceptance by the shingle manufacturer.

When I got home I checked out Therma Sheet on the net and found that it is made for metal and tile roofs but there is no mention of asphalt shingles.


----------



## ICE

mark handler said:
			
		

> California Code of Civil Procedure Section RIGHT OF ENTRY FOR INSPECTION
> 
> ".........whenever there is reasonable cause to believe there exists a state or municipal code violation in any building or upon any premises within the jurisdiction of the city, any authorized official of the city may, upon presentation of proper credentials, enter such building or premises at all reasonable times to inspect the same or to perform any duty imposed upon him or her by ordinance....."
> 
> http://www.codepublishing.com/ca/chulavista/html/chulavista01/ChulaVista0116.html


When people tell me to get off of the property, I do.  They are usually pretty wound up and I want out of there anyway.  After they settle down and understand that they can't win, I get in.  Now and then it takes a little coaxing like shutting off the electricity and I haven't been to see a judge yet.


----------



## pete_t

[quote name=

When I got home I checked out Therma Sheet on the net and found that it is made for metal and tile roofs but there is no mention of asphalt shingles.

Looks like a couple of manufacturers accept it under comp shingles.

http://www.energysavingsolutions.us/pdf/Therma%20Sheet%20News.pdf


----------



## ICE

Thanks Pete,

I noticed that the Owens Corning letter that you provided says that Therma Sheet can be used in place of 15# felt.  The info I found at Therma Sheet's web site "recommends" that Therma Sheet  be used in addition to underlayment.


----------



## ICE

I was there to inspect a water heater replacement.  It is located in a closet which is located in a hallway.  The hallway also includes this wall furnace.  The hallway can be closed off by doors.


----------



## ICE

One stubborn plumber.


----------



## ICE

There ya go.  Design an addition around this.


----------



## KZQuixote

ICE said:
			
		

> fireguy,California does have a process but to get it started with a company of this size, the company would have to first, screw the Governor.


Hey Tiger,

What's the difference? You've been there a thousand times before, perhaps you've even had to step in to share the workload! Not advocating, just speculating about your endurance.

Foggy


----------



## ICE

Placebo effect.  The owner thought that the floor was too springy so a 4"x6" was added.


----------



## fireguy

And if they cut the 4 x 6 a bit longer than needed, the spongy floor would be pushed down.  No more spongy, problem fixed.  And if they cut a hole in the floor, floor sweepings and mop water would disappear into the crawl space.  The contractor should get points for creativity.  But, NO.  You pesky inspectors will just find some other minor thing to complain about.


----------



## ICE

How could it be that the contractor didn't know that this equipment was meant for an indoor installation, as in, all the way indoors.  The chain-link gate can't close because the boiler is larger than the trash enclosure.


----------



## ICE

This was set up by the contractor.

I had no idea until I showed up at the door.

I don't know about the rest of you but I don't enter an occupied property without the occupant or designated adult present.

Several times a week I need a ladder that's not there to access an attic.

Invariably the occupant will say "Wait here, I have a ladder in the garage."

I say, "I'll wait outside, let me know when the ladder is set up."

It may occur to some of you that I should accompany the occupant to fetch the ladder.

Well if it's a little old lady, I do the fetching.

Otherwise, I respect the fact that most people do not want me traipsing through their domicile.


----------



## ICE

The two 2x that hold up the top of the stair stringers didn't get a hanger.






Everywhere that there was hardware, the bolts were too short and these look to be the wrong diameter.  It's gonna take some work to hide all of this metal with drywall.


----------



## ICE

If I didn't know better I'd think I make up a lot of this stuff.











The superintendent on this job is only half there.


----------



## Mac

Structural tape! He's a genius!


----------



## mmmarvel

"The plans specified 5/8" Titan anchors with 5" into concrete at 8" on center. The contractor opted for 3/4" with 7.5" into concrete."

That's because we all know that more and bigger is better ... now if we could just convince the concrete of that ... hmmmm.


----------



## mmmarvel

"This was on the wall next to the job card on a re-roof final inspection. It is a self declaration that there are smoke detectors installed per the code.  I am being asked to accept this in lieu of seeing the detectors because it's a hassle for the owner to arrange an inspection."

Wow, what an easy job you have, now just teach ALL the construction folks to leave a nice letter like this and you should be able to breeze through what, 50 or 100 inspections a day.  Now we know, all those photos are either staged or photoshopped.


----------



## mtlogcabin

mark handler said:
			
		

> California Code of Civil Procedure Section RIGHT OF ENTRY FOR INSPECTION
> 
> ".........whenever there is reasonable cause to believe there exists a state or municipal code violation in any building or upon any premises within the jurisdiction of the city, any authorized official of the city may, upon presentation of proper credentials, enter such building or premises at all reasonable times to inspect the same or to perform any duty imposed upon him or her by ordinance....."
> 
> http://www.codepublishing.com/ca/chulavista/html/chulavista01/ChulaVista0116.html


I was thinking more along the lines of the rest of the section

In the event the owner and/or occupant refuses entry after such request has been made, the official is hereby empowered to seek assistance from any court of competent jurisdiction in obtaining an inspection warrant for such entry. It is a misdemeanor to willfully refuse access after an inspection warrant has been duly issued. (California Code of Civil Procedure Section 1822.57). The


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

Re-roof inspection.

This is the best looking side.






They won't miss the chimney at all.






Electricity is something they'll miss for sure.


----------



## KZQuixote

ICE said:
			
		

> Re-roof inspection.  This is the best looking side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They won't miss the chimney at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Electricity is something they'll miss for sure.


Make a suggestion and move on.

Foggy


----------



## brudgers

ICE said:
			
		

>


  The nails are just temporary....until the load bearing veneer can support it properly.


----------



## pwood

brudgers said:
			
		

> The nails are just temporary....until the load bearing veneer can support it properly.


Brudgers,

 you are obviously not from california or familiar with seismic requirements. the nail is there to hold the beam until the elmers wood glue dries!


----------



## ICE

Electrical service upgrade.  There's the jumper from hot to cold water pies.


----------



## ICE

Carport re-roof.  There was a crew of two on the roof.  The structure swayed 2" when they moved about.


----------



## ICE

One end of the loop(GEC) goes to the water main at the front of the dwelling and the other end goes to two driven rods.  The loop is 60' long and unbroken.  Then there is the jumper from the loop to the ground bus.


----------



## steveray

Sheet metal screw holding that ground bus?...250.8..... 250.64© might allow something like this....but not that......



			
				ICE said:
			
		

> One end of the loop(GEC) goes to the water main at the front of the dwelling and the other end goes to two driven rods.  The loop is 60' long and unbroken.  Then there is the jumper from the loop to the ground bus.


----------



## ICE

steveray said:
			
		

> Sheet metal screw holding that ground bus?...250.8..... 250.64© might allow something like this....but not that......


It is all factory hardware.


----------



## steveray

What factory?.......Tinkertoys?....


----------



## ICE

How would you know that it is a sheet metal screw without removing the screw?


----------



## ICE

Final mechanical inspection.

Suffering from Short Ladder Syndrome.


----------



## TheCommish

do the holiday lights dance and chase around the building?


----------



## steveray

ICE said:
			
		

> How would you know that it is a sheet metal screw without removing the screw?


Usually you can see the threads on the side......I was guessing by the head...and that is why I put the question mark.....


----------



## ICE

steveray said:
			
		

> Usually you can see the threads on the side......I was guessing by the head...and that is why I put the question mark.....


----------



## David Henderson

I guess they wanted you to jump to the other roof from the garage, i guess you could tie the harness off to the line running across both roofs in case you fell.


----------



## MtnArch

It **is** only a hop, skip and drop!


----------



## ICE

I think I missed this at electrical rough.


----------



## ICE

There is plenty of condensate coming from the pipe.  My first thought was that this is a secondary condensate drain.  After all, who would drain a primary condensate over the entry area and this place, except for being ugly, makes sense for a secondary drain.

I was there to inspect a water heater and the owner was home so I explained that he may want to check out the A/C and determine if the primary is plugged.  Well crap, that led to 15 minutes of explaining.  Despite my best effort, I don't think he has a clue.


----------



## ICE

Nine unit apartment building. Copper re-pipe.  Back door to unit #3.


----------



## ICE

I find a half dozen of these every year.


----------



## ICE

The black pipe is csst and this is an exterior wall.  There is no protection at the top plates.  Because it is an exterior wall at the rear of the house, I asked for striker plates on each side of the wall.  At the exterior lath inspection the contractor agreed to install the plates and take pictures of the exterior striker plate before installing the plaster.

The next time I was there I asked for the pictures and the contractor handed me the csst installation instructions that show *no* striker plates on the exterior side of wall plate penetrations.  I thought for a moment and decided that there should be protection.  There is too much of a likelihood that someone will install a patio cover ledger and pierce the csst with a lag bolt.






Today I found this.  It is the wrong striker plate because it should protect the pipe both above the plates as well as below the plates.  I explained this several times and he still got it wrong.


----------



## ICE

The roof has been raised so the vent must be extended.  The plan is to plant the metal B-vent on top of the Transite vent.  I'm not 100% sure but I don't think that there is a way to do that.

When I asked where the access to the new attic will be located, he said "Next to that outlet box."












Transite vent isn't available for purchase so I assume that the entire vent must be changed to B-vent.  I don't know if B-vent can be installed on a 60s era wall furnace.  The existing vent looks like it was cobbled together to begin with.

Shirley there's a lot that I don't know.


----------



## ICE

It's not a code violation if the door swings out but security hinges are a good idea.


----------



## ICE

Solar panels.   Nobody there but me.  I'm supposed to lean the ladder against the gutters and then get on the high roof with the next ladder.


----------



## ICE




----------



## TheCommish

Be thankfull,  this time the ladders extends 3 rungs above the roof


----------



## High Desert

ICE said:
			
		

> It's not a code violation if the door swings out but security hinges are a good idea.


Do you amend your code? I didn't think a door could swing over a step.


----------



## ICE

TheCommish said:
			
		

> Be thankfull,  this time the ladders extends 3 rungs above the roof


The next time you encounter a Little Giant ladder, set it up like this and try to climb it.  The lower roof ladder shall be set up and tied or someone there to hold it because gutter is slippery and easily damaged.

I didn't matter all that much anyway because I couldn't get to the equipment in the back yard.


----------



## ICE

High Desert said:
			
		

> I didn't think a door could swing over a step.


It's not that hard to do.  Think screen door.  Do you see a step?  I don't see a step.  Is there a step?  Watch out for the step!


----------



## High Desert

It's not a screen door though.


----------



## steveray

High Desert said:
			
		

> It's not a screen door though.


R311.4.3 Landings at doors.

There shall be a floor or landing on each side of each exterior door.

Exception: Where a stairway of two or fewer risers is located on the exterior side of a door, other than the required exit door, a landing is not required for the exterior side of the door.


----------



## High Desert

What code are you using? This is the 2009 IRC. Where does it allow other than a storm or screen door to swing over a step?

R311.3.2 Floor elevations for other exterior doors. Doors other than the required egress door shall be provided with landings or floors not more than 73/4 inches (196 mm) below the top of the threshold.

Exception:A landing is not required where a stairway of two or fewer risers is located on the exterior side of the door, provided the door does not swing over the stairway.

R311.3.3 Storm and screen doors. Storm and screen doors  shall be permitted to swing over all exterior stairs and landings.


----------



## pwood

ICE said:
			
		

> It's not a code violation if the door swings out but security hinges are a good idea.


 that threshold is going to work out real good!


----------



## ICE

It can be the smallest thing that sets them apart.  This guy has the anchors installed so all he need do is apply plaster and he's done.  Well that's what he thought.


----------



## ICE

First inspection.






Second inspection.


----------



## ICE

Temp power pole inspection.  The house burned long ago.  I think it was before I came to this office.  The dwelling el service is still energized with the cables cut off.


----------



## KZQuixote

pwood said:
			
		

> that threshold is going to work out real good!


"that threshold is going to work out real good!" Don't unnerstand yer thinkin.

That threshold is non-compliant.

Bill


----------



## ICE

Exhaust fan and light in a shower stall.  Why? comes to mind.


----------



## pwood

That threshold is non-compliant.

Bill

exactly! forgot this :mrgreen: ,didn't think it was necessary.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

The job is a kitchen remodel.  The j-box is near the middle of the room and the contractor says he will place an access panel.


----------



## ICE

ICE said:
			
		

> This was on the wall next to the job card on a re-roof final inspection. It is a self declaration that there are smoke detectors installed per the code.  I am being asked to accept this in lieu of seeing the detectors because it's a hassle for the owner to arrange an inspection.


I got in today and there is no CO detector.  This is the second time that I have encountered the declaration in lieu of an inspection and detectors were missing both times.


----------



## ICE

The permit states: Re-roof and all new windows.  It appears as though the stucco was removed in as much as the roll-off bin is full of stucco and there is green stucco on the building.  The contractor claims that the stucco in the trash bin came from another job and this house got a top coat of plaster.


----------



## ICE

Is it still broken?


----------



## ICE

Still not fixed?


----------



## ICE

Still broke down?


----------



## ICE

The new forum software has opened this thread again.

Tank-less water heater.  In the kitchen.  The handle of the T&P valve is painted blue because that's the color of the trim and the handle is up against the trim.  I was there to inspect the furnace, not the water heater.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Alias

ICE said:
			
		

>


Amazing................I'm speechless...........   :mrgreen:

Sue


----------



## ICE

The hard part was getting all this stuff on the roof without damaging the shingles.


----------



## ICE

Condensing furnace vent.

Makes me wonder how they got this far.

Notice the daylight around the pipe.


----------



## ICE

This is a front porch on a house that's for sale.  Asking price is $425K.  I guess they haven't heard about the great recession.

Besides the nails sticking through the sheathing, carriage bolts at the ends of the rafters, undersized lumber and goofy electrical, there is a mistake that almost all of you have never seen before now.  I know that I haven't and I've seen just about everything.


----------



## pyrguy

Other than the bad fix on the far end I think I see a common clip used in a novel way.  I have never seen anything like it either.


----------



## Francis Vineyard

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Agree 100%.In defense of the inspetor most can barely keep up with the current adopted codes and will not even look at the newer editions till they are being adopted.


In Virginia the 2009 edition became effective March 1st, 2011; unless the permit application was approved before that date with a written request to be reviewed under the 2006.

Francis


----------



## steveray

Plywood run the wrong way.....but at least they knew they needed edge support......


----------



## mtlogcabin

> Besides the nails sticking through the sheathing,


No mistake in most residential construction

R905.2.5 Fasteners.

Fasteners for asphalt shingles shall be galvanized steel, stainless steel, aluminum or copper roofing nails, minimum 12 gage [0.105 inch (3 mm)] shank with a minimum 3/8-inch (10 mm) diameter head, ASTM F 1667, of a length to penetrate through the roofing materials and a minimum of 3/4 inch (19 mm) into the roof sheathing. Where the roof sheathing is less than 3/4 inch (19 mm) thick, the fasteners shall penetrate through the sheathing. Fasteners shall comply with ASTM F 1667.


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> No mistake in most residential constructionR905.2.5 Fasteners.
> 
> Where the roof sheathing is less than 3/4 inch (19 mm) thick, the fasteners shall penetrate through the sheathing.


That's the arguement I get from lousy contractors.  There is also a code section that states that work shall be done in a workmanlike manner.  Well there used to be such a section but it may not be in the IRC.  When I see nails blasted through the overhang I tell the owner that this may not be what they paid for.  I tell the contractor to do the work in a workmanlike manner and this ain't it.


----------



## mtlogcabin

ICE said:
			
		

> That's the arguement I get from lousy contractors.  There is also a code section that states that work shall be done in a workmanlike manner.  Well there used to be such a section but it may not be in the IRC.  When I see nails blasted through the overhang I tell the owner that this may not be what they paid for.  I tell the contractor to do the work in a workmanlike manner and this ain't it.


It is not an aurgument it is a code requirement. Unless you can require a minimum 3/4" roof sheathing the contractor is correct. The code does not address if the underside of the sheathing will be exposed or not


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> It is not an aurgument it is a code requirement. Unless you can require a minimum 3/4" roof sheathing the contractor is correct. The code does not address if the underside of the sheathing will be exposed or not


I advocate for the owner and don't allow the code to be a scapegoat for the contractor.

I am pretty sure that if this were anybody but me, this wouldn't be an issue for you.

At least, for your sake, I hope that's the case.


----------



## mtlogcabin

ICE

I am not intending this to be personal. I am just pointing out the code requires fasteners to be a minimum 3/4" in length and it permits them to penetrate sheathing that is less than 3/4" thick. I don't like the look either but what is the alternative?


----------



## kilitact

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> ICEI am not intending this to be personal. I am just pointing out the code requires fasteners to be a minimum 3/4" in length and it permits them to penetrate sheathing that is less than 3/4" thick. I don't like the look either but what is the alternative?


I would agree. Cosmetic, perhap your planning department would disapprove it.


----------



## ICE

To each his own.  I hope nobody from the planning department sees this.  They meddle with our stuff enough as it is.


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> ICEI am not intending this to be personal. I am just pointing out the code requires fasteners to be a minimum 3/4" in length and it permits them to penetrate sheathing that is less than 3/4" thick. I don't like the look either but what is the alternative?





> R905.2.5  of a length to penetrate through the roofing materials and a minimum of 3/4 inch (19 mm) into the roof sheathing. Where the roof sheathing is less than 3/4 inch (19mm)thick, the fasteners shall penetrate through the sheathing.


 Then if nails aren't sticking through the plywood sheathing there exists a code violation.  Obviously the answer is for the nails to be showing.  Even with V-Rustic which is 3/4" thick because the code says "a minimum of 3/4 inch (19 mm) into the roof sheathing".

It may be just my way of thinking but this is a stupid code when it comes to overhangs.  Hardly ever does someone let the nails show.  Almost always a short nail is used.  I have never heard of overhang shingles blowing off a roof where field shingles didn't blow off the roof.

Then again, if the overhang shingles don't start peeling away in the wind, the entire roof may stay intact.  Who knows.  I do know what we have been doing forever and a clean roof job done by a professional will not have nails showing.


----------



## mtlogcabin

You have a history of shorter nails working in your area. What is your wind speed? Perhaps the fastener length should be determined by the wind speed.


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> You have a history of shorter nails working in your area. What is your wind speed? Perhaps the fastener length should be determined by the wind speed.


For most of my career, the wind speed that we built to was 80mph.  I think that with the adoption of the IRC, we went to 100mph.  I don't think it has exceeded 45mph except at the coast and mountain passes.

We have done it this way ever since shingles were invented.

What are people doing in other parts of the country?


----------



## ICE




----------



## Mac

That looks pretty stout!


----------



## Frank

ICE said:
			
		

> Then if nails aren't sticking through the plywood sheathing there exists a code violation.  Obviously the answer is for the nails to be showing.  Even with V-Rustic which is 3/4" thick because the code says "a minimum of 3/4 inch (19 mm) into the roof sheathing".  It may be just my way of thinking but this is a stupid code when it comes to overhangs.  Hardly ever does someone let the nails show.  Almost always a short nail is used.  I have never heard of overhang shingles blowing off a roof where field shingles didn't blow off the roof.
> 
> Then again, if the overhang shingles don't start peeling away in the wind, the entire roof may stay intact.  Who knows.  I do know what we have been doing forever and a clean roof job done by a professional will not have nails showing.


If it is 1/2 inch sheathing and the nails don't penetrate then there is a code violation and a reduced strength of hold--the tapered end of the nail does not hold as well as the shank and with shallow penetration will tend to push the nail back out.

Roof failures typically start at corners and edges where the wind uplift force can be up to 2-1/2 times greater than in the field area.  Many standards require extra fasterers in these areas in high wind areas.

http://www.fmglobal.com/shamrock/P0283.pdf


----------



## ICE

> That looks pretty stout!


Ah but it's Chinese steel from the days of Mao Zedong and the other side is attached to fascia.


----------



## ICE

Frank said:
			
		

> will tend to push the nail back out.


The real danger is when the lawnmower spits out those short nails.


----------



## ICE

This is an AC disconnect for a solar installation.  It is the make and model that's specified on the plans.  It is mounted on the back wall of the house near the service panel.  There is no dead-front protection.  That doesn't sound safe at all.  I will challenge this.






Instead of utilizing the hole that the panel manufacturer provided for mounting a grounding lug, the installer drilled a hole and put the lug there.  There are no WEEB clips under the lugs.  The ground path is relying on a star lock washer.






This is all over the installation.






The bus is rated 200 amps....the mains are 200 amps....split bus panelboard will not allow a 20% increase....there is no room for the 40 amp solar contribution.


----------



## kilitact

ICE said:
			
		

> The real danger is when the lawnmower spits out those short nails.


Or when the "inspectors" start making up their own rules.


----------



## ICE

kilitact said:
			
		

> Or when the "inspectors" start making up their own rules.


You guys will grab at the slimmest of straws; all the while convinced that your indignation matters.  The whole wide world except you knows how to deal with shingles on an overhang.  Walk outside and look at your roof...here's hoping that you have asphalt shingles and splintered wood.


----------



## ICE

These 4' shear walls must be OK because an engineer approved them with his structural observation.






This one I'm not so sure about.:devil






I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it for myself.  These walls are dual side shear walls at the front of a commercial building.

A structural observation is a testament that a structure exists where there was none before....and


----------



## GBrackins

me either ....


----------



## ICE

This is an existing purlin that is shown on a set of plans for a solar array.  The contractor got upset when I told him that this is not a legitimate purlin.  Of course I wouldn't expect a not a legitimate electrical contractor to understand about purlins.






They don't understand a lot about what they are doing.  I don't either but I am getting stronger every day.






There's not much buzz about solar here at the forum.


----------



## ICE

That's not a good place to park.


----------



## Mac

Air ball!!!!


----------



## ICE

The plans have nothing regarding the diameter or length of the anchor bolts so they installed 24" J-bolts.


----------



## ICE

There is a roof jack in front of each unit that is there to take the condensate drains to lavatory tailpieces.  These condensate drains all go to roof drains because the building is just a shell and there are no bathrooms.  This is the first inspection that I've done and it was for the mechanical equipment only.

I know that many of you allow condensate drains to hit a roof drain but we don't.


----------



## ICE

It's a code enforcement case.  The guest house attic has been converted and a permit issued to convert the attic back to it's original condition.  The owner requested an inspection claiming that he was done.


----------



## ICE

As much work went into this as the rest of the project and wow does it look strange.  There's a $3000 window on it's way.


----------



## ICE

They had all the room they needed and this is the result.


----------



## steveray

That is so you can hold the door closed while you are on the toilet.....DUH.....No nail plates, is that a PVC to ABS joint? Looks like white pipe on the bottom....


----------



## ICE

steveray said:
			
		

> is that a PVC to ABS joint? Looks like white pipe on the bottom....


It is styrofoam wrapping the pipe so that termites have a way in.


----------



## pwood

ICE said:
			
		

> It's a code enforcement case. The guest house attic has been converted and a permit issued to convert the attic back to it's original condition. The owner requested an inspection claiming that he was done.


 boaring!!!!


----------



## ICE

Brudgers was wondering what happened to Texasbo.


----------



## ICE

An addition was built at the back of a garage without permit or a sufficient foundation.  So now a slot cut footing is being placed under the inadequate foundation.






There is no connection between the first footing and the footing that's being added.






I realize that it is just a garage but why bother with a new footing with four bars and not connect them.  I figured that to be a mistake so I fixed it with horseshoe dowels 36" OC.

They plan to mix the concrete in wheelbarrows.  I can't imagine what the advantage over a ready-mix truck might be.  I've got to wonder if it is proper to let a foundation get mixed in a wheelbarrow  There's no control and probably a bunch of cold joints but I don't know of a code for that specific method of making concrete.


----------



## ICE

This is rude.  Mosquitoes are killing people and I have to tell flipper to clean up.  Oh wait a minute....where's that in the code....it's not you say....I should call the health dept you say....that's because you don't want to do anything that you don't have to do....that called being lazy with a bad attitude....reminds me of the discussions we have about safety.


----------



## TimNY

ice said:
			
		

> this is rude.  Mosquitoes are killing people and i have to tell flipper to clean up.  Oh wait a minute....where's that in the code....it's not you say....i should call the health dept you say....that's because you don't want to do anything that you don't have to do....that called being lazy with a bad attitude....reminds me of the discussions we have about safety.


pmc 303.1...


----------



## ICE

TimNY said:
			
		

> pmc 303.1...


That's a code we don't have.  What we do have is vector control.  VC would come out and put fish in the pond.  Where's the animal rights people with that one?


----------



## Darren Emery

ICE said:
			
		

> I realize that it is just a garage but why bother with a new footing with four bars and not connect them.  I figured that to be a mistake so I fixed it with horseshoe dowels 36" OC.


YOU fixed it?


----------



## ICE

Darren Emery said:
			
		

> YOU fixed it?


Took you long enough.

You see that pencil on the left.

It's been known to do outrageous things.

Lead poisoning may have affected it's judgment.


----------



## Darren Emery

ICE said:
			
		

> Took you long enough.


I'm slipping a bit in my old age...


----------



## ICE

A new house is on it's way.  Plate and detail is ahead of the game.


----------



## ICE

This was built with a permit in 1981.






Some time later a few changes were made.






There is now a permit to change the roof from shed to gable.  They requested an inspection to see if I will ask them to tear out the walls too.


----------



## ICE

One more guy has decided to field wrap 50' of gas pipe.  He will be the first guy that gets to keep it.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

Quick, get some stucco on that wall before anybody notices.  The things that I've had to tell these people during the course of this job....it shouldn't be this way.


----------



## ICE

The scope of work per the permit and plans is to replace rafters that burned off years ago.

These two don't look all that thrilled to be there.

I should have asked them to take a picture of me.






We are taught to recognize danger signs.  This kid wants to break something.


----------



## ICE

Ten minutes to quitting time and I am asked to go do an electrical inspection.  The people bought a house without el. service and Edison was waiting to hear from me before they hook them up.

Too many loose electrical ends for that.


----------



## Glenn

Is this a train wreck thread?  Can I play too...Tell them they need to provide an EERO for the basement...and you get a lovely retaining wall.  Complete with custom hooks for hanging garbage bags.
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 1481
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Tried to delete post since I messed up the photo uploads.  No such option.  Sorry for the lack of embedded photos.  Their still funny though.

View attachment 613


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View attachment 613


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/monthly_2012_11/572953c51f4bd_basementstairs_comic.jpg.2cfc9ffd31dbdcef713b563f3dba2ee3.jpg

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----------



## ICE

This is the thread for that.  The pictures did come through.  Kinda small and you have to open a link but they are there.  So let's see how bad it can be in Glenn's world.


----------



## ICE

Probably nothing out of the ordinary for most of the country but a real faux pas here.  What's troubling is that this is right in the middle of town on a busy street and nobody is complaining.


----------



## ICE

Just because I have wings doesn't mean that I can fly.


----------



## Glenn

I can't seem to get photos show up in the post.  You got a video that can show me how, ICE...hee, hee, hee...


----------



## ICE

Glenn said:
			
		

> I can't seem to get photos show up in the post.  You got a video that can show me how, ICE...hee, hee, hee...


Ya but it ain't free.

Use photobucket....oh so simple and you can copy a full size picture right there and paste it right here for free....I've been waiting for someone with a camera to come along.  Most of the people here still have to get up to change the channel.  Fatboy waits until he needs to pee.

After the picture is loaded go to albums.  Below the picture are choices....pick *share*....the next window is all of the ways to share.....pick *get link code *.....now there is a page with six choices....the second from the bottom says *full size*....put the cursor there and right click....*select all*.....right click again and *copy*.....come here and paste.

Now if none of this is possible it is because photobucket is trying out a new version.  They did that to me but I found a button that said go back to the old version of photobucket...which I did because the new version sucks.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

If the IRC had a plumbing code...






Hold on, the IRC does have a plumbing code.


----------



## jar546

An average day

Love the revision clouds reference

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## TheCommish

ICE said:
			
		

>


you need the drawing that goes with the hole ICE


----------



## ICE

Would you ask them to replace the bottom plate?


----------



## ICE

The company that did this is notorious for installing an inverted sewer liner without telling us. [we don't allow them]  They take out a permit for a few feet of pipe.  I became suspicious so I asked for a camera run and sure enough there's the liner.  Now they get the pipe inspected before they install the liner.  I approve the pipe [not this one] and then they install the liner after we are done.  I've tripped them up a few times by asking the owner questions.  I can't trust the owners either.


----------



## ICE

oops


----------



## TheCommish

ICE said:
			
		

> oops


forgot to tell the site guy they were using mirroed plans


----------



## TheCommish

no the plate justs hold the wall together while they were building it the PDU are doing all the work



			
				ICE said:
			
		

> Would you ask them to replace the bottom plate?


----------



## ICE

My office manager saw the picture and had a strong reaction to the split plate.  Although it would have been better had they replaced it, I'm not inclined to make them do it now.  What I don't like is the narrow space between the HDs.


----------



## Builder Bob

I would say that the concern should be with the proximity of the plate anchor bolts to the anchor bolts with proximity to edge of slab.... but I am not an engineer even thought I plays with trains...


----------



## ICE

The plate is 3"x6"...if that helps


----------



## ICE

Do you approve these wire insulation stays?


----------



## TheCommish

yes

however the vapor barrier s is on the wrong side for New England



			
				ICE said:
			
		

> Do you approve these wire insulation stays?


----------



## ICE

California too.  They called for underfloor framing inspection.  When someone goes back, there will be no insulation and wire will be strung under the joists to support the insulation.


----------



## ICE

I was there for a re-roof final inspection.  The roof in the front has a steep pitch so I didn't go up the ladder.  The lady asked me if I looked at the area where the roof was raised. and, of course I hadn't.  To the back yard we went.  There is a den at the rear with a cathedral ceiling.  The contractor stacked these 2"x12" and raised the roof.  The reason for this is to provide a space for insulation.

There is no permit or insulation.







I don't know why there is a missing section of barge rafter but judging by the paint on the inside, it may be permanent.


----------



## kyhowey

Yes.  Insulation is upside down though.  Paper goes to warm side.  Plus paper probably has a warning "Facing will burn.  Do not leave exposed.  Cover with approved building material in contact with facing."
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 1492


View attachment 615


View attachment 615


/monthly_2012_11/572953c524cb5_unfinished3.jpg.473bdfa1d3310cdef644197cdf85e8ca.jpg


----------



## ICE

Cozy installation instructions:



> Due to high temperatures, *the appliance should be located out of traffic* and away from furniture and draperies.Children and adults should be alerted to the hazards of high surface temperature and should stay away to avoid burns or clothing ignition.
> 
> Young children should be carefully supervised when they are in the same room as the appliance.


Obviously the instructions aren't getting through to this contractor


----------



## ICE

The entire house was rewired from J-boxes that have been buried.  Every receptacle, light fixture and switch has been replaced.  There is new HVAC, dishwasher and disposal.  The kitchen is new as are three bathrooms.  Walls have been removed and french doors installed.  The roof is new too.  All of this bootleg work and they left this crap panel.











The inside is much improved with more to come.  Mainly a replacement of the service.  Had I not discovered the work being done without any permits, I get the feeling that the panel would still be a wasp nesting site.











This is a view through a hole in a wall at the top of the stairs.  The hole has been patched and there is no access to the attic space.  They can fix that.

They thought that they were home free because I wrote the initial stop work/get permits and another inspector took the job once permits were obtained.  Well that inspector went on vacation and the contractor called for final inspection and I showed up.  He says, "What attic space....what J-boxes?"  I said, "Hold on, I've got pictures."


----------



## MtnArch

Was the worker sealed up in there too?


----------



## ICE

An inspector gets hung out to dry for not going on the roof.

Some jurisdictions do not allow inspectors to go on a roof.

LA City requires a permit for a re-roof but the contractors inspect their own work.

Largo homeowner: How can inspector approve roof from sidewalk? | TBO.com


----------



## pyrguy

Was fall protection, ladders, and other safety equipment on the site for the inspector's use?   

Just twisting tails. Our inspectors are usually not allowed on roofs due to liability issues. Both from a fall or damage to the clay tile roof which is the norm here.


----------



## ICE

My AHJ is considering a ban on going on roofs.  My AHJ considers things for years and then does nothing.  I see a lot from roofs.


----------



## ICE

deleted duplicate


----------



## mmmarvel

pyrguy said:
			
		

> Was fall protection, ladders, and other safety equipment on the site for the inspector's use?    Just twisting tails. Our inspectors are usually not allowed on roofs due to liability issues. Both from a fall or damage to the clay tile roof which is the norm here.


Then how ARE roofs checked?  In Houston, on commercial roofs, there is a certification (I believe it is a statewide cert) for roof inspector.  I've talked with some of the inspectors from testing labs, it's not an easy cert to get, a fair amount of classroom time, I believe there might be some on-the-job time required and a test.  I'm toying with the idea of getting it, just to have another feather in my cap.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

Three story wood stick frame university dormitory.

3x framing and this is the nail that was used.  The engineer's structural observation report didn't mention that the nails are too short.  Gotta love these engineers and their observations.






The structural observation before this one was for the foundation.  There are hundreds of anchor bolts.  The plans call for 3/4" and 5/8" were installed.  I could see that from twenty feet away.  The engineer missed it.  The contractor threw the plans into the air.  The wind was blowing....hard.  I didn't even get out of my truck.


----------



## ICE

Illegal construction

Blight Of Bay Ridge – Update » BeehiveHairdresser.com

http://www.yalibnan.com/tag/illegal-construction/


----------



## pyrguy

I am talking about residential roofs. Commercial are a different story, no pun intended.


----------



## ICE

It was a lot of work to get it wrong.


----------



## ICE

Yet another way to mount solar panels on a roof.  These fit between the the panels and the teeth bite into the panel frame to serve as the equipment bonding means.  I was there before I left for vacation so I don't know if they came up with a listing but I doubt it.  I took three weeks off so this job should be history when I return.

There are a bunch of these compared to a support system that utilizes rails.  A rail system might have 6 roof penetrations to this systems'  24.


----------



## pyrguy

Had some of those show up here. They just got their letter from UL. Should be able to provide documentation.


----------



## ICE

I have mentioned these towers in Chino Ca previously.  Recently, I was able to get a picture of the base which must be 10 to 12 feet wide.  The 200' tower rests on jamb nuts.  If Edison ever gets to use them, they will carry 500KV.


----------



## Builder Bob

Already here in South Carolina... my how towers travel...


----------



## ICE

The locals want to send these back to China.

I would like to have observed the foundation work.

I've seen foundations 6' diameter and 40' deep for a cell tower.

The soil in Chino must not be all that great because they require a soils report for everything (even patio covers).

It must have been some machine that excavated the holes.

How deep are the holes?

It's odd that nobody noticed thousands of yards of concrete being dumped into the Earth.

And the cranes it must have taken....wow.

30 big rigs show up in your back yard, yet a bitch isn't pitched until it's Shirley too little, too late?

There is, after all, a 75' wide easement.

Edison should have told them that the top arm will support gondolas....that reach Disneyland.

If the people are upset now, wait until the microwave oven starts running without them.


----------



## mmmarvel

ICE said:
			
		

> Three story wood stick frame university dormitory.3x framing and this is the nail that was used.  The engineer's structural observation report didn't mention that the nails are too short.  Gotta love these engineers and their observations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The structural observation before this one was for the foundation.  There are hundreds of anchor bolts.  The plans call for 3/4" and 5/8" were installed.  I could see that from twenty feet away.  The engineer missed it.  The contractor threw the plans into the air.  The wind was blowing....hard.  I didn't even get out of my truck.


Hmmm, interesting and I've been hearing talk about changes that will allow/enable engineers to do inspections.  The talk was for the state of Oregon and specifically for engineers to be able to do 'special inspections' - things like masonry, concrete, structural bolting, I don't know about steel; not too many engineers I've ever run across would qualify as CWI let alone a decent concrete inspector.


----------



## ICE

mmmarvel said:
			
		

> Hmmm, interesting and I've been hearing talk about changes that will allow/enable engineers to do inspections.  The talk was for the state of Oregon and specifically for engineers to be able to do 'special inspections' - things like masonry, concrete, structural bolting, I don't know about steel; not too many engineers I've ever run across would qualify as CWI let alone a decent concrete inspector.


I don't mind if they start doing what ever.  The more eyes, the better.  I wouldn't refer to it as an inspection without duress.

I'm not happy with anyone that points to a structural observation as an authority above my inspection.

The statement: "The engineer didn't say anything about that" implies and is meant to be a trump card to corrections that I come up with.

I have posted many stories here about some serious deficiency that was missed by an engineer.

There has never been a time when I had no corrections despite a structural observation that blessed the work.


----------



## mmmarvel

ICE said:
			
		

> I don't mind if they start doing what ever.  The more eyes, the better.  I wouldn't refer to it as an inspection without duress. I'm not happy with anyone that points to a structural observation as an authority above my inspection.
> 
> The statement: "The engineer didn't say anything about that" implies and is meant to be a trump card to corrections that I come up with.
> 
> I have posted many stories here about some serious deficiency that was missed by an engineer.
> 
> There has never been a time when I had no corrections despite a structural observation that blessed the work.


Reminds me of the time I went for a concrete inspection and as I got out of my truck and started approaching the wall, I could see steel missing (the top of the steel sticking out over the top of the form).  I saw it (and that was my job) but the superintendent, the engineer and someone who had been hired as the QC person had all missed it.  Not that I was/am, all that great, just an experienced set of eyes looking at the project from a fresh perspective not having my vision clouded by looking at the same thing day after day, hour after hour.  Also when an engineer trumped me, at a minimum the conversation was noted in my report/notes, best bet was to get something in writting from the engineer (sometimes that request got the engineer to look at it a second or third time).


----------



## Alias

mmmarvel said:
			
		

> Hmmm, interesting and I've been hearing talk about changes that will allow/enable engineers to do inspections.  The talk was for the state of Oregon and specifically for engineers to be able to do 'special inspections' - things like masonry, concrete, structural bolting, I don't know about steel; not too many engineers I've ever run across would qualify as CWI let alone a decent concrete inspector.


I have engineers here who are certified and do 3rd party testing within their expertise.

Most of the firms I deal with have someone/company that they use for the special inspections.  And, as happened a couple of weeks ago, I did the bolt & hold down inspection for a commercial retrofit because the engineer was off hunting. :inspctr

Sue


----------



## ICE

A bunch of work was done to this house including a second story addition.  No permits.  I have not been inside.





















This type of work makes me leery of all the work.


----------



## Wayne

Re: An average day

Enough caulking will fix anything.


----------



## ICE

That's just great...a crazy person has moved into the neighborhood and he brought along the favorite color of institutionalized people.


----------



## TheCommish

almost looks like the yellow building was photo shopped into a black and white photo,. maybe this will spur the neighbor to move out of Smallville


----------



## rktect 1

I've got a lime green house with orange trim and brown brick facade that beats that home anyday.  Luckily they moved in oe block away from me but WOW.

I have a picture of it hanging in my office to remind me whay we have an appearance review.  Unfortunatly, the next owner can paint it anything they want to.


----------



## Wayne

Re: An average day

Here's one that is one neighborhood over from mine.


----------



## brudgers

ICE said:
			
		

> That's just great...a crazy person has moved into the neighborhood and he brought along the favorite color of institutionalized people.


  Beige is over-rated.


----------



## brudgers

Wayne said:
			
		

> Here's one that is one neighborhood over from mine.


  Two neighborhoods? Soulless beige spreads like a cancer.


----------



## Wayne

Re: An average day



			
				brudgers said:
			
		

> Two neighborhoods? Soulless beige spreads like a cancer.


Two neighborhoods in the sense they are divided by geographic names.


----------



## codeworks

"and they all lived in ticky tack, and all looked just the same" maybe i'm showing my age, and leftwingedness, but color, really, you've got to be kidding


----------



## Francis Vineyard

brudgers said:
			
		

> Beige is over-rated.


No doubt: Urban Dictionary: beige

Francis


----------



## codeworks

nice one! i like your style, and the def's fit the bill.


----------



## Papio Bldg Dept

codeworks said:
			
		

> "and they all lived in ticky tack, and all looked just the same" maybe i'm showing my age, and leftwingedness, but color, really, you've got to be kidding


Malvina Reynolds version of little boxes is still my favorite version.


----------



## ICE

The permit was 1/2 hr. electrical inspection.  The contractor's objective was to release Edison to install a new meter.  Not going to happen.











The main breaker is open and Edison did not cut the power because Edison's lines are untouched by the fire.

The panelboard took a beating.  I don't have a clue if it is still suitable for use.  I do know that it was hot enough to melt the meter some and Verizon gave up early.

It looks normal enough.  I removed the deadfront and it looks OK on the inside.  No melted insulation.  The problem is that I don't know how hot is too hot or how hot it got but hot it was.


----------



## ICE

The inspection is a el service upgrade.  There is another permit to install 24 solar panels on the roof.  The panel is a center tap rated at 200 amp.  The main breakers are 200 amp so this new panel will not allow the addition of solar at any amps.

The mistake in the picture tells me a little about the person that did the work.






This picture is for fatboy.  I don't want him to feel left out.


----------



## ICE

This is a vent for a tank-less water heater.  Well known contractor.







Pigs may never fly but here's proof that cows do.


----------



## Wayne

Re: An average day

Did they use the whole bucket?


----------



## ICE




----------



## 97catintenn

Somebody is definitely missing with you


----------



## ICE

They turn in opposite directions too.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Wayne

Re: An average day



			
				ICE said:
			
		

> They turn in opposite directions too.


It's like a combination lock.


----------



## Alias

ICE said:
			
		

>


Two house numbers for the same property......or, did someone park granny in the converted garage........?

Sue


----------



## ICE

Raising the roof....twice.











Each post is three pieces....with scabs


----------



## ICE

The inspection is a foundation for a 25 square foot addition of a closet.  My first thought was really? a permit for 25 sq. ft. ...and it's a closet....located where it can't be seen from the street.

Well they didn't place the anchor bolts and they have 1/2" where 5/8" are required.  They showed me on the plans where it says 1/2" anchor bolts.  I crossed that out and penned in 5/8".


----------



## ICE

There's a Winnebago out there that's missing a door.


----------



## ICE

The inspection request said "Fire suppression system"....that's the Fire dept, not me....so I inspected the water heater.....some electrical too.  They got ten corrections and I wasn't supposed to be there.


----------



## tmurray

ICE said:
			
		

> The inspection is a foundation for a 25 square foot addition of a closet.  My first thought was really? a permit for 25 sq. ft. ...and it's a closet....located where it can't be seen from the street.


We got one not too long ago for a 22 sq. ft. addition to a dining room. It had a 4 foot frost wall and engineered trusses.


----------



## fireguy

was the flex gas hose passing through the sheet metal one of the 10?

What is the cylinder in the hall?  A nitrogen or oxygen cylinder?


----------



## ICE

fireguy said:
			
		

> was the flex gas hose passing through the sheet metal one of the 10?  What is the cylinder in the hall?  A nitrogen or oxygen cylinder?


Yes it was...along with being too small in diameter and connected to a valve that lacks a handle.

This is a restaurant so my guess on the tank is CO2.  Whatever it is, it should be secured in place.


----------



## rktect 1

ICE said:
			
		

> There's a Winnebago out there that's missing a door.


YOU issued a permit for that?


----------



## ICE

rktect 1 said:
			
		

> YOU issued a permit for that?


Not yet.  I saw it yesterday for the first time.  I left a notice to obtain a permit.  It might take ten years but they will remove it.


----------



## Rider Rick

Why would it take 10 years?


----------



## codeworks

i wish i could see the pictures!


----------



## ICE

Rider Rick said:
			
		

> Why would it take 10 years?


The outfit that I work for is a toothless, paper tiger.


----------



## Rider Rick

That might be, but you are the Tiger with teeth.


----------



## ICE

Wall furnace rough mechanical inspection.


----------



## fireguy

They deserve a Green Award for the reuse of the kindling.


----------



## ICE

What's above your desk?


----------



## kyhowey

This was my Friday. How could I tell there was a new, unpermitted garage addition?  What's that inside the new garage?  Oh, that's just your egress window from the bonus room bedroom.  This is a sunroom company deciding they can build garages now.  Hope they learned something the first time, because they get to do it again.  This time out of the easement.

View attachment 624


View attachment 625


View attachment 624


View attachment 625


/monthly_2012_12/1214121149b.jpg.9fcb2d374070995af200853216d1a113.jpg

/monthly_2012_12/1214121151c.jpg.cead18433089ae2bb1b12488b58989e6.jpg


----------



## kyhowey

This was my Monday.  They had a permit for an interior re-model.  That doesn't include an addition to the kitchen.  Or enclosing the gas meter inside your new addition.  Another person gets to start again from scratch.

View attachment 626


View attachment 627


View attachment 626


View attachment 627


/monthly_2012_12/1217121339b.jpg.56bd72214653655b044b0f6ba5697ea1.jpg

/monthly_2012_12/1217121339a.jpg.2879a0d21ff0e36c500a9a5b2c2dc1ae.jpg


----------



## ICE

Let us know how Tuesday turns out.

I'm glad to see someone else using a camera.


----------



## ICE

First inspection.






And then we both had to go back.


----------



## kyhowey

I'm actually taking Tuesday off to go Christmas shopping. Not sure if that's better or not.


----------



## 97catintenn

Well, here is what I found today.  The panel cover cannot be installed until the wires are rerouted, and about the wood door that it is housed in...FAIL
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







View attachment 630


View attachment 631


View attachment 630


View attachment 631


/monthly_2012_12/panel1.jpg.13d5e5f41a377651804c9c3e65d2add2.jpg

/monthly_2012_12/panel2.jpg.2c6a43540aa88882bdb5dfcd036f5d73.jpg


----------



## ICE

What a wild mess.  There's probably every possible mistake taking place in one panel.  The transformer is a real hoot.

That rivals anything I've posted here.


----------



## ICE

The look of guilt.


----------



## steveray

All that and Federal Pacific too.....Surprised it has not burned yet!



			
				97catintenn said:
			
		

> Well, here is what I found today.  The panel cover cannot be installed until the wires are rerouted, and about the wood door that it is housed in...FAIL


----------



## Pcinspector1

It least they labeled the panel box. Circuit #23 is for the "Toaster" for sure.

pc1


----------



## Alias

200 Amp GE Panel - Missing two breakers, cover not attached to box

View attachment 632


Gee, missing breakers are in the bottom of the panel box
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 633


Never seen a piece of copper (lower left) like this in a box before
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 634


I found this while investigating a complaint on the rental.  Main complaint was for the Monitor heater that is spewing CO and landlord won't fix it.  Electrical problems are secondary.Temps have been down to 8 degrees/night, 20's-30's/day.   Sue, just another snowy day in paradise.   
View attachment 632


View attachment 633


View attachment 634


/monthly_2012_12/11.jpg.8e605b0049aec7e3c58e2c647b092ef6.jpg

/monthly_2012_12/21.jpg.39b885b02855f83f403314661f791d14.jpg

/monthly_2012_12/31.jpg.2cb346467746e297b98db56a572966c7.jpg


----------



## ICE

In 2003 a permit was obtained for an electrical service upgrade.  No inspection was done and the permit expired.  New owner obtained new permit to finalize the 2003 permit.  There's a laundry in the way.  The new owner is unhappy.  He can't understand why I can't just do the inspection and leave him alone.


----------



## Wayne

Re: An average day

That's one heck of a laundry setup.


----------



## ICE

Two service drops are laying on the roof.  One is for this house and the other serves the neighbor.  The structure is a room addition that was approved ten years ago.


----------



## ICE

The major frame is steel and the smaller members that hold the glazing are aluminum.  The contractor claims to have built many such rooms and has never heard of an equipotential bonding grid.  I explained as much as I know about it during a foundation inspection.  I did that again over the phone while I was on vacation.  The bonding was tricky because everything is painted and it bolts together.






I guess that I have failed because this wall is a staging door that opens the entire wall.  The doors and track are not bonded.


----------



## ICE

My turn to find a transformer inside a panel cabinet.  Of course it was a solar company that did this so I can't say that an electrician screwed up.


----------



## ICE

This happens 9 times out of 10.


----------



## ICE

This hardy ever happens.  The end of the armor that is inside the EMT is not bonded and the end of the EMT is not bonded.  It looks clean.


----------



## ICE

The contractor told me that the steel will float to the top as the concrete fills the excavation so there is no need to tie it in place.


----------



## steveray

NICE!.....I had a contractor tell me the other day that he couldn't pressure test his CSST (that he wanted to direct bury) until it was buried because it would burst.....


----------



## steveray

Is the steel made of Ivory soap? Perhaps it is air entrained and that causes it to float?



			
				ICE said:
			
		

> The contractor told me that the steel will float to the top as the concrete fills the excavation so there is no need to tie it in place.


----------



## fiddler

Alias said:
			
		

> 200 Amp GE Panel - Missing two breakers, cover not attached to box
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 1523
> 
> 
> Gee, missing breakers are in the bottom of the panel box
> 
> View attachment 1524
> 
> 
> Never seen a piece of copper (lower left) like this in a box before
> 
> View attachment 1525
> 
> 
> I found this while investigating a complaint on the rental.  Main complaint was for the Monitor heater that is spewing CO and landlord won't fix it.  Electrical problems are secondary.
> 
> Temps have been down to 8 degrees/night, 20's-30's/day.
> 
> Sue, just another snowy day in paradise.


Alias the copper in the bottom picture looks like it might be your panel bond.


----------



## ICE

This might be somebody's' Christmas present.






The last thing that was added is the 2"x4" post in the middle..... because...it was falling down.






They do deserve credit for creativity.


----------



## rktect 1

I want to know more about this floating steel rebar.


----------



## ICE

Not really my cup of tea but this is one of the best that I've seen.  The guy that did it has an artist's eye.






The guy that built the stairs might be blind in one eye.






The guy that placed the equipment less than five feet away from the property line can't see at all.


----------



## brudgers

You inspect tea cups?


----------



## ICE

Twice each year.





http://cheezburger.com/6854357760


----------



## brudgers

The red one is yours?


----------



## codeworks

i had an "electrician" ask me this morning if he could put 6, 12 -2 mc's into 3 ganged 2x3x3-1/2 inch device boxes. i asked him if he had a code book so i could look it up. he said " you can't get a box deeper than that". that was not my question,. do you have a code book/  "no", ok  i've got one in my truck i'll be right back. "well it's only a remodel" well, you're still supposed to comply with the code, regardless of it being a remodel on residence or a 5 story commercial building. he does not own a code book.  he did not know about 314.16, or how to size a device box. this guy is actually licensed as a journeyman, has no clue where to look in the code book for device box sizing, how do they get the license.


----------



## ICE

The plan shows a wall that is retaining 5'6" with no surcharge.  The wall will be retaining 7' to 8' and then there is the fence built on caissons.


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for new windows.  The woman that answered the door is elderly.  She was caring for her mother in another bedroom.






I told her about the fifty.  She was surprised and said she thought she had sent that to her sister.

I do not enter occupied dwellings without a responsible adult present.  This points out that I shouldn't enter rooms without a responsible person present.


----------



## ICE

This job will produce some interesting mistakes....every time I go there.


----------



## Mac

"...joists shall be supprted by not less than 1.5 inches of bearing on..."

Those boots are holding up well.


----------



## ICE

Mac said:
			
		

> "...joists shall be supprted by not less than 1.5 inches of bearing on..."Those boots are holding up well.


I still haven't replaced the laces.


----------



## ICE

The lady said a friend told her that the contractor neglected to install a platform.






I obscured the light bulb for your viewing pleasure.


----------



## tmurray

ICE said:
			
		

> I still haven't replaced the laces.


That's what I thought when I saw the picture.


----------



## GBrackins

Ice,

on post #576 did they use the joists as forms for placing concrete? guess they'd get green points for that one ....


----------



## ICE

GBrackins said:
			
		

> Ice,on post #576 did they use the joists as forms for placing concrete? guess they'd get green points for that one ....


Yes they did.


----------



## ICE

GBrackins said:
			
		

> Ice,on post #576 did they use the joists as forms for placing concrete? guess they'd get green points for that one ....


Most of the short joists and unusual laps are of little consequence.  Well unless the joists are shown as doubled on the plans.  Even with that there may not be a reason for both joists to be bearing as long as they are sufficiently nailed together.  It looks like they didn't want to use a saw so they nailed it together running everything long for no apparent reason.

What's somewhat troubling is that they did it at all.  This is the job where they left many form boards stuck in the concrete.  They have the ability to build square, tight, level and plumb but they might be prone to fatal mistakes.


----------



## ICE

It's a pretty good chance that some of the signs are stolen.







The fence is covered in license plates.
















Vacation souvenirs?


----------



## MtnArch

Add a few more and it will be a metal fence!   ;-)


----------



## north star

*= = =*

Tag fetish ?

In Post # 561, ...please cite the violations inside the panel!

In Post # 569, ...do you require the purple primer on all / some

/ any pvc ?  



*= = =*


----------



## ICE

I don't know....if you ask me, that garage door looks out of place.






This colorful 7 bedroom 3 bath 2500 sq. ft. Chino Hills beauty, built in 2003, can be yours for a mere $289,900.00


----------



## Wayne

Re: An average day

Someone likes turrets.


----------



## GBrackins

I like them too, especially on top of a M1 Abrams


----------



## brudgers

Wayne said:
			
		

> Someone likes turrets.


  If you had tur ****!!! rets  you'ld know no ****!!!! body likes it.


----------



## ICE

That was a good one brudgers.


----------



## Mac

Oooohh I had one on a 551 Sheridan - fun at the night range!


----------



## Alias

Agree with you ICE, garage doors look misplaced.

Sue


----------



## ICE

In this case it was a solar contractor that overlooked this open box.  By overlooked, I don't mean that it wasn't fixed.  It is that the fact that nothing was said to the owner and if I don't bring it up, it will not be fixed.  It kinda makes the contractor look like a dummy because the owner wonders what sort of workmen did he get that didn't notice this.  And such an easy repair as this...the cover is probably laying in the attic...not far from the box.

In fairness to the solar contractor...he didn't know that this is a problem


----------



## ICE

Not even three feet of pipe and they paid $3092.00


----------



## ICE

I didn't want to climb the wood ladder






So they set up the Little Giant ladder....just for me.











Gosh, the things I am asked to do.


----------



## ICE

They figured that they were in the clear because they can still get an SUV into the bedroom/garage.


----------



## 97catintenn

I'm amazed at what you see when you inspect.  I would understand one or two a month, but you are getting hit on a daily basis.


----------



## TheCommish

how far can they extend the wooden ladder?

It seems to me that the sliding glass door is a code violation in a garage


----------



## ICE

The wood ladder will go as high as your wallet will allow.

I think the SUV in the bedroom/nursery is a bigger problem.


----------



## JPohling

thats a really nice soffit they have constructed in that garage


----------



## ICE

This is how they left it.  Nobody there and wide open.


----------



## ICE

I pointed out that the duct has collapsed at the bend.  The contractor kept asking me what radius is required by the code.


----------



## ICE

The service panel was installed four years ago without a permit.  Edison decided that they were going to shut it off if they didn't get an inspection by me.  To prepare for that inspection, they installed a pair of ground rods and a bonding jumper to a water pipe.  I wonder what got Edison so excited.


----------



## ICE

north star said:
			
		

> *= = =*Tag fetish ?
> 
> In Post # 561, ...please cite the violations inside the panel!
> 
> In Post # 569, ...do you require the purple primer on all / some
> 
> / any pvc ?
> 
> 
> 
> *= = =*


I apologize North Star, I just noticed your questions.

#561

It is that the lock rings are not tight.  A lock ring should bite into the metal.  There are variations of the defect such as crooked conduit and rings that are upside down or too small for the hole.

It should look like this.






#562

The The plumbing that you see there is process pipe.  As such, I do not inspect it other than in the shell of the pool. Pool contractors don't know that and always call for an inspection of the pipe before they backfill trenches.  And yes, they always have 20 psi air pressure.  Pool contractors make me nervous.  Pool contractors are to all the building trades as solar contractors are to the electrical trade.

The pvc that I do inspect does have purple primer.  I recall that subject has come up several times regarding an invisible primer...now there's a stupid idea.  I don't see PVC or CVPVC often.  The usual is copper or PEX.  PEX seems to be holding up well but the fittings do not impress me.


----------



## ICE

Never seen this before.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Ideal "Greenie Grounding connector






Brent.


----------



## TheCommish

we use them in the east all the time


----------



## ICE

24 times


----------



## TheCommish

did they run out of tie wire?


----------



## ICE

None of my pictures made the cut.


----------



## ICE

The building is 800K sq.ft.  A mezzanine of 90Ksq.ft. is being built.  There are column footings galore.

The footings adjacent to the K brace have been dug.






Visible in the first hole is a portion of the block of concrete that secures the brace.











The plan show 8" dowels with 4" exposed at all of the footings.  The dowels are a slip fit.






In the past, I have inspected K brace footings that also had special reinforcement in the slab around the brace footings.  I asked that question and nobody had an answer.  Three days later, their engineer came to the office to confer with our engineer.  The conclusion is that this K brace did not require slab reinforcement, and it never hurts to ask.


----------



## mtlogcabin

This in in the new addition to the hospital


----------



## ICE

The building is over a quarter mile long.  There are exit doors with exit signs directly over the doors.  The doors and signs are hidden by product.  A mezzanine is being built so before it's done, I will get exit signs placed where they can be seen.

I wonder what the Fire Dept. has to say about this.


----------



## Wayne

Re: An average day



			
				mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> This in in the new addition to the hospital


K Brace buried in the wall?


----------



## TheCommish

ICE any sprinkler in the wearhouse?


----------



## ICE

TheCommish said:
			
		

> ICE any sprinkler in the wearhouse?


Yes and high pile storage


----------



## mtlogcabin

> K Brace buried in the wall?


Exactly

It does not need to be there it just provides a shorter way for maitenance to access the existing portion of the hospital.


----------



## ICE

Three guys showed up at the counter this morning.  One did the talking.  He explained that he was the contractor doing a re-roof that was up for inspection today.  His question was what is the nail pattern for sheathing.  He wanted to make sure that they got it right because "Every city is different"

The ladder was too short....there's sawdust on a steep roof....and nails sticking out of the roof, everywhere.


----------



## ICE

The water heater was in a laundry room.  The room has a gas clothes dryer, an exhaust fan and no combustion air openings so they moved the water heater to the outside.

The rubber on the handle might melt but I doubt that it will ignite.


----------



## ICE

Solar contractor installed a service panel upgrade.


----------



## ICE

A complaint came in that work is being done before 7:00AM.  The description of the work said "Re-roofing without a building permit"


----------



## kyhowey

At least you can't say the complaint was inaccurate.  It does indeed look like it will get a new roof.  Or house completely demo'd.  Looks like a pretty clean jobsite.


----------



## ICE

The offset is too low so the vent will not fit the attic shield.  So they ruined the attic shield and called for inspection.  They get away with this lousy work because many inspectors never look in the attic.

If you are one of the inspectors that doesn't bother to look....you need to look


----------



## ICE

http://www.wimp.com/simulatedearthquake/


----------



## ICE

Contractor thought the TV antenna could substitute for straps.


----------



## hlfireinspector

Six Cabinet signs running off the power pulled for the orginal sign in the center that burned. The photo cell burned up about 8 months age and an electrican came out and replaced it. Guess where the fire started.

View attachment 675


View attachment 675


/monthly_2013_02/P2130001.JPG.0793eba4a89523060d5959fd27fd5cae.JPG


----------



## ICE

Family May Be Forced to Demolish Secret Castle They Call Home | Trending Now - Yahoo! News


----------



## 97catintenn

guess he never had electricity either...or phone...or a mailing address...

Should have left the hay bales and blue tarp up, buddy


----------



## ICE

There's a clothes dryer on the other side of the wall that's behind the water heater.


----------



## 97catintenn

That looks like a _heavy weight_ water heater, ice.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:
			
		

> Family May Be Forced to Demolish Secret Castle They Call Home | Trending Now - Yahoo! News


The law where you can keep something if they don't notice it for 4 years, is rather interesting to say the least. It would certainly help with some of the problems we see with modifications that have been done years previously without permit by grandfathering them in. Of course, it would also be another can of worms by people trying to conceal projects for 4 years, like was done in this case. The story doesn't state whether they still have to meet the existing code, even if they bypassed the permit process. If they still had to meet code, I really don't see anything wrong with that system.


----------



## Alias

ICE said:
			
		

> Family May Be Forced to Demolish Secret Castle They Call Home | Trending Now - Yahoo! News


Treehouse.....  oh, boy.....

100-Foot-Tall Tree House Shut Down Until Up to Code | Trending Now - Yahoo! News

Sue


----------



## ICE

There's enough yard for two pools and they managed to place this one under 12,000 volt power lines.






Edison gets excited if you dig within 5' of a pole.  That's because a 50' pole is in the dirt 6'.  Edison's guideline for depth is 10% of the length plus 1'.


----------



## 97catintenn

It looks like they have the clearance they need if it's a 50' pole.  25' clearance from the water level and 17' from the observation deck (if that's what the semi circle there is).

NEC 680.8 and Table 680.8


----------



## ICE

97catintenn said:
			
		

> It looks like they have the clearance they need if it's a 50' pole.  25' clearance from the water level and 17' from the observation deck (if that's what the semi circle there is).NEC 680.8 and Table 680.8


Here in California, the utility company sets the rules.  For example, a triplex service drop can be as low as 12' above a pool.

Edison has a five foot easement on each side of power poles and enforcement is lax.  In this case, the 12,000 volt lines are easily more than 25 above the pool but Edison's rule is that the pool shall not be below the lines at any measurement.

The pool excavation is 3.5' from the pole so I have requested an encroachment permit from Edison.  Edison charges $400.00 for a permit.

The circle is a spa.


----------



## mtlogcabin

> I have requested an encroachment permit from Edison.  Edison charges $400.00 for a permit


Will they give you a "finders fee" AKA kickback for your due diligence  

Seriously Good Call


----------



## ICE

The return air grill is the top of the furnace.






We started allowing cord and plug disconnects years ago.  Most of the time, that's OK.  They'll need tools for this one.






The A/C disconnect is readily accessible.






The sub-panel is merely accessible.


----------



## ICE

Don't give up early


----------



## ICE

This is a fire pit that's fed with natural gas.  It is lined with glass chips.  The owner says that it changes color and is way cool.  I wonder about the concrete rocks and how they will react to the heat.  I wonder if it fills with rainwater.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> This is a fire pit that's fed with natural gas.  It is lined with glass chips.  The owner says that it changes color and is way cool.  I wonder about the concrete rocks and how they will react to the heat.  I wonder if it fills with rainwater.


Just my personal experience, but they have, or rather are _supposed_ to have, a drain in the bottom. And they don't ever really seem to get hot enough for any other problems. Not any worse than a wood fire. The glass, however, is an unknown material to me as far as what I have seen in firepits.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

The really bad spots got a patch.


----------



## ICE

I wrote this up last September during a re-roof inspection.  A final inspection was requested for today.  The homeowner tells me that he is a commercial electrician.  That's good because that indicates that he should understand a ten day notice.


----------



## ICE

I was asked to get a picture of this house because of the motor home that's parked at the side yard.  Apparently, there is a zoning violation.  Somebody is looking to pile grief on these folks because they were also reported for having a converted garage.  The only difference between these folks and the rest of the block is that they have been reported.






This is the house directly across the street.


----------



## Alias

Did you write up the parking lot?     

Sue


----------



## mtlogcabin

I was amazed at how wiring was done way before I was born, then I found how the current electricians connect to the existing wiring.


----------



## TheCommish

can't say much

with my other hat I responded to a fire the other night, the crew had a bunch of question for me about building code issues

i can convert this stove






listing from who






the blower should keep the tape cool






the pipes getting hot, some fiberglass insulation should help






proper clearance to vinyl, not a problem


----------



## ICE

They never remove the carpet before I write the correction.


----------



## MtnArch

I'm surprised they didn't use the outlet for their power supply!


----------



## ICE

The installation instructions say that the furnace gets hot enough to light you on fire.  The workmen just don't understand what they are doing.  Imagine some housewife grabbing a melted attachment plug.  She gets burned right before the shock.  I told them to refer to the installation instructions regarding the receptacle but I doubt that they will find any mention of such a thing.  I suppose it will come down to "Tell us what you want"  I'm thinking that a foot aught to do it.


----------



## fireguy

ICE said:
			
		

> I suppose it will come down to "Tell us what you want"  I'm thinking that a foot aught to do it.


What if your foot gets stuck?


----------



## ICE

A new concrete tent that can be erected quickly. [VIDEO]

http://www.wimp.com/balancemaster/


----------



## Mac

Cool, but not an award winning appearance.


----------



## Alias

ICE said:
			
		

> A new concrete tent that can be erected quickly. [VIDEO]A master of balance. [VIDEO]


Interesting concept that.

Sue


----------



## ICE




----------



## pyrguy

Excuse me but WHAT THE H377????


----------



## steveray

What????...They can't use a trap primer?...You are soooooo mean!


----------



## ICE

http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/gravity-defying-video-illusion-goes-flow-183609014.html


----------



## TheCommish

the local home store has may fittings and adapters, so you can do anything with enough time


----------



## ICE

The cabinet belongs to Sprint.  It is on the roof of a five story building.  It's bigger than it appears in the picture.






Everything about this installation is heavy duty.






Right up until you get to the grate that it is bolted to.






I could have torn it down with my bare hands.  They said that they would have the engineer that designed it take another look.  I was surprised that an engineer designed it.  Most likely an electrical engineer.

The white cabinets contain radio equipment.  Sprint can talk to the installation.

The vent serves a 200 gallon water heater.

The contractor became upset when I told him that the vent must be raised above the parapet.  He felt better when I told him that he didn't have to do it.  Then he felt bad again when I told him that I wouldn't final his work until the vent is raised.  He told me that the heat from the vent wouldn't have an adverse effect on the radio equipment.  I told him that the radio equipment has an adverse effect on the vent.


----------



## ICE

If I were the HO, I would be dismayed to learn that the people that installed my wall furnace are that damned stupid.


----------



## TheCommish

Ice, I don't inspect gas, so is the issue the flex pipe or the poorly positioned shutoff , or something else?


----------



## ICE

TheCommish said:
			
		

> Ice, I don't inspect gas, so is the issue the flex pipe or the poorly positioned shutoff , or something else?


It's the valve.  It can't be reached.  The furnace will have to be removed to correct this mistake.  On the other hand, the young men that install these may try to remove the valve body and not the furnace.  But then again, the company may not allow them to get that technical....at least I hope not.


----------



## ICE

The a/c condenser is new and so is the disconnect.  The disconnect is in the same spot as the previous disconnect.  The window a/c is bolted to the wall.  The contractor is upset because I asked him to move the disconnect.


----------



## ICE

I was a long way (1500') away and driving at the time.  The pipe is at least 12" diameter.


----------



## TheCommish

expanstion loop


----------



## MtnArch

Seismic expansion joint?


----------



## ICE

I have seen many that were parallel to Earth but never standing up like this.....and 20' tall


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:
			
		

> I have seen many that were parallel to Earth but never standing up like this.....and 20' tall


The only reason I can think of doing an expansion joint like that Would be because of space limitations.  Maybe they didn't want to buy right away?


----------



## TheCommish

How about expansion joint and cattle crossing at the same time


----------



## ICE

Two in one week.  My AHJ has been studying the concept of inspectors not going on roofs at all....ever.  The study has lasted a year or more.

What is that on the right hand side?  It is in front of the cable with the open air splices that reaches out to the detached garage.

Inspectors should have side cutters and a license to use them.

Then we could graduate to sledge hammers and chainsaws.






This one really didn't matter as the house is a single story....I just thought it was goofy enough for a picture.






http://www.wimp.com/snowmobilejump/


----------



## ICE

The cable that's in the conduit was an afterthought.  The cables that enter through the back leave the building through a hole in the stucco.


----------



## ICE

I've not seen it done like this before.....there is a bunch of it too.


----------



## Alias

ICE said:
			
		

> I've not seen it done like this before.....there is a bunch of it too.


Is that string/rope/twine?

I've installed insulation and have used netting and metal rods to hold in the insulation.  I have never seen anything like this picture.

Sue


----------



## ICE

That is wire.  Usually the wire runs perpendicular to the floor joist only.  The metal rods that you mentioned are prone to falling out.  I do not accept them.


----------



## ICE

A solar contractor has installed a service panel upgrade.  At the first inspection, I wrote a correction about the NMC in a conduit located in a wet location.  That was one of 13 corrections and they didn't fix it because they didn't know what I was talking about.  They didn't fix it the last four times that I have been there and I am always met by a different workman.  Well today they dug out the other end of the conduit and it stops two inches below grade and the cable goes who knows where.  Of course I am told that this is not their fault because it was existing.


----------



## ICE

There was a message waiting for me when I returned to the office.  The contractor wanted to know what "graham cracker plywood" means.  He understood "crap ladder".


----------



## pwood

ICE said:
			
		

> A solar contractor has installed a service panel upgrade. At the first inspection, I wrote a correction about the NMC in a conduit located in a wet location. That was one of 13 corrections and they didn't fix it because they didn't know what I was talking about. They didn't fix it the last four times that I have been there and I am always met by a different workman. Well today they dug out the other end of the conduit and it stops two inches below grade and the cable goes who knows where. Of course I am told that this is not their fault because it was existing.


looks like uf cable to me ?


----------



## steveray

pwood said:
			
		

> looks like uf cable to me ?


I agree....but Ialso agree that the rest of the work looks like crap.....


----------



## Alias

ICE said:
			
		

> That is wire.  Usually the wire runs perpendicular to the floor joist only.  The metal rods that you mentioned are prone to falling out.  I do not accept them.


Never seen wire like that either.  Metal rods were used when installing insulation underfloor in late 80's by Community Action Agency.

I see mostly netting here.

Sue


----------



## ICE

The job is a new duplex.  This is the garage side of the wall between the house and the garage.  The plan is to eliminate the 1/2" drywall and apply stucco.  That doesn't sound like a terrible idea but the stucco step is too much to consider.







There is a wood framed step under the lath.


----------



## Wayne

Re: An average day

That step will quickly disintegrate.


----------



## mark handler

Wayne said:
			
		

> That step will quickly disintegrate.


Tile???????


----------



## Wayne

Re: An average day

Why would they lath it to only tile it?


----------



## mark handler

Fire rated assembly? I would have used expanded lath....


----------



## ICE

The job is a room addition and the owner is an electrical contractor.  He wasn't sure that I had seen the UFFER so he drove a rod.






Is the access there just so that you can see the connection or do we want to be able to use tools once we are there?


----------



## ICE

pwood said:
			
		

> looks like uf cable to me ?


It turns out that it is UF cable.  Now the violation becomes it's only 2" into the dirt.  It went to an equipment pad for a swimming pool that is not there anymore and now it's gone.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

"Is the access there just so that you can see the connection or do we want to be able to use tools once we are there? "

That's standard issue on every production home I can remember. I would ask when and why you would ever need to work on it? What situation would that be?

Brent.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE




----------



## TheCommish

if I was asked what was neat and workman like, the proceding 2 photos would not be an example


----------



## ICE

I don't think that I would be out of line if I referred this to code enforcement for trash, junk and debris visible from the street.  That is what it's built out of.


----------



## ICE




----------



## steveray

I see your trash pile and raise you pallet storage over 8'.....


----------



## steveray

Does crazy foam count as securing the wires?



			
				ICE said:
			
		

>


----------



## ICE

Somehow, this looks wrong.


----------



## ICE

Somebody built this in their backyard without being noticed.






By the look of the lath, I'm in for some new experience.






This is in the backyard of the roof I was standing on when I spotted the new counstruction.  These look like a $1000 a month....maybe more


----------



## ICE

The owner insists that this is nothing more than a storage shed.  I said, "OK by me but it's too close to the property lines so move it"  The owner says, "I can't move it"  I said,"Sure you can, just not in one piece"


----------



## mark handler

storage shed with a doggie door and an AC unit, nice


----------



## MtnArch

Gotta keep the doggie cool somehow!


----------



## GCtony

ICE, what's up with the rated foam at the boxes?  Did the EC give an explaination why he did this?



			
				ICE said:
			
		

>


----------



## ICE

GCtony said:
			
		

> ICE, what's up with the rated foam at the boxes?  Did the EC give an explaination why he did this?


There's no electrical contractor.


----------



## brudgers

There's Enough Snow in BC, but not enough ICE

Somewhere, a village is missing its idiot:  Build to Fail, Fail to Build. What is this I don't even..........


----------



## ICE

Granted it's only one stud but it is galling to hear the contractor say that he found it that way.






I asked him to open the spigot so that I would know that the water pipe still part of the plumbing system.  The valve is frozen shut so he broke the stem trying.  He then declared that it is not live so he will bond the pipe elsewhere.  He thinks that he faked me out and I don't know that he broke it.


----------



## ICE

The job is a bathroom remodel a block from a park full of kids.  The workmen are having lunch at a burger joint.  How can they be so dumb?






It's plugged in.


----------



## ICE

This is the contractor's brother.  He met me at an inspection for a 200 amp panel.  The sum total of his electrical knowledge is that a toaster must be plugged in if you want toast.  I think that he arrived by skateboard.






The conductors are either service entrance or feeder.  I don't know because I didn't look for the other end.  The end that I can see is where the smaller conductors hit a 200 amp 3 phase panel and then there's a transformer and finally a 200 amp panel.

Both panels are new and the transformer is left over from a bootleg 600 amp system that powered a pot grower's indoor garden.


----------



## ICE

New roof on a carport.


----------



## jar546

Remind me to never buy property in your jurisdiction.  I think that you have generations of non compliance that you are fighting.


----------



## ICE

Service upgrade

Both conduits are clamped to a floating piece of wood.  They are clamped several feet outside of the picture.  And yes, it was existing so the contractor didn't do any better.  Notice the structural strap that he screwed to the top plates.  This electrician is not much of a builder.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

A flipper took out a permit for a re-roof.  The file has a correction notice that was written in 1998.  The notice states "inspector recommends that a new electrical service be installed"...and that's all.

I find this:





I don't "recommend" stuff so I wrote a correction to obtain a permit and install a new electric service.

They did this:













The goose neck is on the far right in the shadows from the tree and the SEC runs through the attic....it's been like that for 64 years.





The wire is as old as the goose and the insulation is shot so they taped it.





Now here's the good part.  They are way pi$$ed off and blame me for not telling their licensed electrician:

1. Get Edison to spot the meter.

2. The SEC can't run through the attic.

3. Install a grounding electrode system.

4. Bond the water pipe.

5. And a bunch of other stuff.

So I broke one of my own rules and "recommended" that they find a different licensed electrician.

Update:

The office manager saw this and said that this doesn't qualify as a service upgrade because the meter section has not been replaced.  As a result, Edison doesn't need to be involved and the only thing that I am inspecting is the new panel.  Anything above the off-set above the panel can remain.

Well you could've fooled me.


----------



## Alias

ICE said:
			
		

> A flipper took out a permit for a re-roof.  The file has a correction notice that was written in 1998.  The notice states "inspector recommends that a new electrical service be installed"...and that's all.  Now here's the good part.  They are way pi$$ed off and blame me for not telling their licensed electrician:
> 
> 1. Get Edison to spot the meter.
> 
> 2. The SEC can't run through the attic.
> 
> 3. Install a grounding electrode system.
> 
> 4. Bond the water pipe.
> 
> 5. And a bunch of other stuff.
> 
> So I broke one of my own rules and "recommended" that they find a different licensed electrician.
> 
> Update:
> 
> The office manager saw this and said that this doesn't qualify as a service upgrade because the meter section has not been replaced.  As a result, Edison doesn't need to be involved and the only thing that I am inspecting is the new panel.  Anything above the off-set above the panel can remain.
> 
> Well you could've fooled me.


Wow, reminds me of some of the services I have here!  I am luckier than you ICE in the fact that the local power company, PP&L, insists that SEC and meter set meet their current specs, not whatever was okay in 1930.  Homeowner is required to upgrade everything when installing a new panel.

Sue


----------



## ICE

Well Sue, the customer has no clue and I wrote corrections which included getting a meter spot from Edison.  I don't like the idea of not telling the customer that the manager has overridden my correction but I still have questions.  For example, should we allow a main breaker that is larger than the original?  And did it even have a main breaker when Thomas Edison hooked it to the grid?  How can I not require the old service entrance conductors to be replaced?


----------



## Arcal

If the wires at the weather-head, or any other location, are in disrepair and in your opinion consider unsafe, can't you use Section 17920 of the California Health and Safety Code which say, "Any building or portion thereof including any dwelling unit, guestroom or suite of rooms, or the premises on which the same is located, in which there exists any of the following listed conditions to an extent that endangers the life, limb, health, property, safety, or welfare of the public or the occupants thereof shall be deemed and hereby is declared to be a substandard building." "(17920.3d) All wiring, except that which conformed with all applicable laws in effect at the time of installation if it is currently in good and safe condition and working properly." Or even Section 1001.5 of the Uniform Housing Code, to to require the repairs (replacement) be made?


----------



## ICE

Arcal,

I don't have any knowledge of the California Health and Safety Code or the Uniform Housing Code.  The electrical code has all that I need as long as I am allowed to use it.

I can't tell the office manager that he can't approve whatever he decides that he will approve.  I have had further conversation with him and he might see it my way.


----------



## ICE

Rooming house.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Alias

ICE said:
			
		

> Arcal,I don't have any knowledge of the California Health and Safety Code or the Uniform Housing Code.  The electrical code has all that I need as long as I am allowed to use it.
> 
> I can't tell the office manager that he can't approve whatever he decides that he will approve.  I have had further conversation with him and he might see it my way.


ICE,

I agree with Arcal.  I use H&S code when dealing with existing buildings.  It covers a myriad of substandard issues.  I also have used the 1997 Uniform Code for the Abatement of Dangerous Buildings and now the International Property Maintenance Code.  All useful resources for dealing with problems and existing buildings.

Sue, soon to be twiddling my thumbs.............


----------



## ICE

I wrote a correction that there can't be exposed carpet below the furnace.  So there it is....sheet steel laying on the carpet.  My guess is that the contractor has never gotten that correction before now.  Well I said no and he will most likely screw the steel to the floor and request another inspection.  I'll say no again and the stumblebum will try something else.


----------



## ICE

How many times have you heard a contractor say, "We're not roofing that area"?  Then if I didn't make an issue about the illegal construction, they replace the roof.





How often does a contractor wait for you to tell him that a cricket is needed?


----------



## ICE

It's a large garage.





I noticed that all of the monkey paws are upside-down but not to worry, the string is the finish floor level.


----------



## ICE

That's a big no









Solar contractors are the worst.


----------



## Mac

The extend-o-ladder! I hate those things!


----------



## ICE

The posts are 4x8 & 4x10





The rafters are 2x6....and then there's the 2x2s


----------



## ICE

It wasn't moved far.





Considering the vent length, I question the consequence of adding 4' of vent connector.  The gasses must now heat that pipe which robs heat that's needed to heat the vent through the roof.  The tight bends of the connector, although legal, aren't helping.





Ya the bollard is a dead giveaway.  Well I wasn't there to inspect the water heater as the AHJ.

this is weird

http://screen.yahoo.com/sucky-water-pressure-153000165.html

so is this

http://screen.yahoo.com/coke-water-filter-184458454.html


----------



## ICE

http://www.wimp.com/howyou/

http://www.wimp.com/badhabit/


----------



## ICE

There is a complaint that the garage has been converted to a dwelling with a kitchen and bathroom.  It looks like the garage and dwelling were two buildings at one time.





I think that there is a metal patio cover that is buried in stucco.


----------



## ICE

This idiot is doing 55 on the 91.  The load jumps up and down with every bump.


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:
			
		

> The posts are 4x8 & 4x10
> 
> 
> 
> The rafters are 2x6....and then there's the 2x2s


And the water drains over the pl?


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:
			
		

> This idiot is doing 55 on the 91.  The load jumps up and down with every bump.


And your driving behind it?


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:
			
		

> It wasn't moved far.
> 
> 
> 
> Considering the vent length, I question the consequence of adding 4' of vent connector.  The gasses must now heat that pipe which robs heat that's needed to heat the vent through the roof.  The tight bends of the connector, although legal, aren't helping.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya the bollard is a dead giveaway.  Well I wasn't there to inspect the water heater as the AHJ.
> 
> this is weird
> 
> http://screen.yahoo.com/sucky-water-pressure-153000165.html
> 
> so is this
> 
> Coke to Water Filter | Watch the video - Yahoo! Screen


I like the combustible storage in front of the WH


----------



## ICE

mark handler said:
			
		

> And your driving behind it?


LOL my camera will zoom 18X....that's why it's blurry....but I have done dangerous stuff to get a picture.


----------



## ICE

The job involves straps across the ridge from rater to rafter.  The shingles were removed but I can't see the straps from the ground.  I was expected to climb the step ladder.  I said no. The man in the picture is the owners father and he volunteered to go on the roof and tell me the spacing and take pictures of the straps.  I held the ladder for him.

Afterwards, I thought that perhaps I screwed up.  Had the old fart fallen, it would somehow be my fault and Shirley, I don't need that.


----------



## rktect 1

mark handler said:
			
		

> And your driving behind it?


while taking a photograph at 55 mph


----------



## ICE

ICE said:
			
		

> They never remove the carpet before I write the correction.


They fixed it.

The original outlet is now a j-box with a paper cover.





Uh Oh I tore the paper.


----------



## MtnArch

At least they didn't use the correction notice for the cover!


----------



## ICE

I wonder if Wal-Mart has heard about this.


----------



## ICE

That's as wide open as that door gets.





The second solar inspection of the day.


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:
			
		

> That's as wide open as that door gets.


They are trying to get you down


----------



## ICE

My employer gave us all a book titled Spanish in a Pinch.  It came with inserts.  Here is an example.


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for a furnace and A/C.  I was stood up.  The appliance vent on the right is for the water heater. .......... Your other right.  The four through the roof...I don't know yet.


----------



## ICE

No, no, don't tell me....I can get this....OK, it's pex, cable and csst....something must be wrong 'cause he took a picture.


----------



## ICE

Again with the drywall screws.





At least it wasn't a contractor.  Twenty-one corrections.  Nineteen of which were related to the service upgrade.  A new furnace and a/c were installed without permits and I didn't inspect that work.  When I gave the corrections to the owner she said that the guy was coming back anyway because the a/c does not work.  I thought, well with any luck at all, the furnace won't work when he gets done.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

What kind of retardation is that on the bus above the main?


----------



## ICE

If you are talking about this:





I don't know.  It is not a back-feed because the service drop is tied in already.


----------



## steveray

At least the plating on the CSST is wrong.....


----------



## ICE

New solar and it feeds this panel.  That's as wide as the door opens.


----------



## TheCommish

basements you need basement for the panels, water heater, washing machines and all that stuff that gets cobber onto the outside, then the problems will dissipate


----------



## ICE

There's a bunch of them.





It's been on the roof for about a month.  That's a TV antenna that shades the module.  It gives the pigeons a place to sit while they sh⚕t.


----------



## JPohling

The bathroom addition is very classy too!


----------



## ICE

It is a new house being built by a licensed contractor.





This is some unlicensed HD contractor doing a service upgrade.  That's the water pipe bond.


----------



## beach

I'm guessing the vents are just spotted and not connected so the roofers can dry in


----------



## ICE

Oh no sir.  They are ready for inspection.  The guy standing next to me when I took the photo said, "We can straighten them out before we call for inspection"


----------



## MASSDRIVER

A well thought out ant-aircraft battery.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

The patio cover spans the entire house and wouldn't pass inspection by a long shot.  It has been there for a long time.





They added this little bit to the end of it and somebody complained.





As far as violations go, they racked up a bunch of them.













According to them, the trailer is not, and never has been occupied while being stored on the property.


----------



## TheCommish

My contribution to silliness

View attachment 737


View attachment 737


/monthly_2013_07/WP_004684.jpg.d15122ad0154d493bbd9da31673d306e.jpg


----------



## jar546

TheCommish said:
			
		

> My contribution to silliness
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 1734


Yeah, silly.  Very silly.   Actually pathetic.


----------



## jar546

ICE said:
			
		

> They added this little bit to the end of it and somebody complained.


Looks like it is now too close to the lot line/property line and fire protection/rating is required.


----------



## ICE

14' deep.  They are going to place two grease interceptors for one car wash.....if they live through this.





There's a head in that hard hat....or maybe not

A little green fingernail polish and I might have missed it.


----------



## jar546

Nice catch on the sill plate


----------



## ICE

ICE said:
			
		

> 14' deep.  They are going to place two grease interceptors for one car wash.....if they live through this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 784
> 
> 
> There's a head in that hard hat....or maybe not


I was wrong, it is four.  This car wash is costing upwards of 3.2 million dollars to build.  I can't see people paying much more than eight dollars to run their car through the tunnel.  That means that it will take 400,000 washes to break even.


----------



## jar546

Maybe it is a front for money laundering


----------



## MASSDRIVER

I was watching the 30 for 30 documentary "Broke", on the way pro athletes blow through money and wind up in bankruptcy a large percentage of the time. One of the bad investments discussed were carwashes.

Seems there is a racket going to sell people of means but not much brains on the carwash deal. It would take over 100 washes a day for 10 years just to cover the construction of the one ICE is showing. Just construction.

Brent.


----------



## cda

Who is "bigtee"


----------



## ICE

cda said:
			
		

> Who is "bigtee"


why ya asking?


----------



## Span

I believe it also need to have insulation wrap around storage tank.


----------



## Msradell

Span said:
			
		

> I believe it also need to have insulation wrap around storage tank.


Whether this is required or not depends on the insulation value of the insulation provided with the heater.


----------



## ICE

What you see here is a heat exchanger.

FVIR water heaters are not supposed to have external insulation because it may cover the combustion air intake.

Most new water heaters are FVIR.

Most new water heaters have plenty of insulation.

Mine keeps my garage warm.  I have a large garage.


----------



## pwood

What's a few spent shells anyway?


----------



## ICE

pwood said:
			
		

> What's a few spent shells anyway?


It's the live amo that gets them going.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> It's the live amo that gets them going.


When I was a kid framing with my weed-challenged cousin, he enjoyed taking the duds and hammering them into the windows sills. Well, enjoyed it until one blew his hammer head off and broke his nose.

Brent.


----------



## TheCommish

Made my day when I saw this, do know if I would want it on the back of my company truck though


----------



## peach

Not here either..

The beauty of my current job is this: I can totally ignore other jobsites; if we haven't been hired to inspect them, we have no authority/responsibility for them.


----------



## TheCommish

they are not done yet, the to small room will be built around the HVAC later


----------



## TheCommish

I think there are 90 degree fitting and hole saws avaiable


----------



## Rick18071

must bond the gas line


----------



## pwood

Egress window?


----------



## Darren Emery

On the tread picture - is that a friction set screw???


----------



## ICE

Darren Emery said:
			
		

> On the tread picture - is that a friction set screw???


That was my guess as well.  It's like it is set up waiting for the welder.  It has been there for years.

Does anyone know why the pictures are small?  They were full size when I posted them.


----------



## ICE

I am still looking for a house to buy and came across this:

View attachment 835


The picture is from Redfin.  It appears that there is no guard rail at the second floor.  I sent a copy of the picture to the local building dept.
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 835


/monthly_2013_08/IV13147052_6_0_zps0b1898b6.jpg.8e67c8a067bf396178ea1f4e71821356.jpg


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:
			
		

> I am still looking for a house to buy and came across this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 1953
> 
> 
> The picture is from Redfin.  It appears that there is no guard rail At the second floor.  I sent a copy of the picture to the local building dept.


That's a beautiful stairway!  Won't be nearly as pretty after they make it code compliant.


----------



## MtnArch

So, ICE, did you put an offer in on it?


----------



## ICE

MtnArch said:
			
		

> So, ICE, did you put an offer in on it?


No Alan I didn't.  It is next to impossible to sell a house to a building inspector.


----------



## mtlogcabin

Got to love the home owner contractor





He was told to install joist hanger and this is what he did. I think he might be a CA transplant


----------



## Msradell

Not unless NASA designed it!


----------



## fireguy

Isn't the first step to be considered a landing?  As a landing,  isn't there a minimum depth?


----------



## ICE

fireguy said:
			
		

> Isn't the first step to be considered a landing?  As a landing,  isn't there a minimum depth?


This is not the required egress door so if there are two or fewer risers and the door does not swing over the stairs, no landing is required.

The bottom riser is 8.5" and the top riser is 9.5".  The treads are way different from each other.  Two additions and five outbuildings (all occupied by renters) were demolished by order of a code enforcement inspector.  I was on the property to inspect an el. service upgrade and that all of the demo work has been completed.  The stairs have been there for a long time (20 maybe 30 years}.  I was told to ignore it.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:
			
		

> An attic storage/playroom space has been created in garage.  The floor joists are 2x6.  The span is 29'5".  I could not find a splice in the floor joists.  It would take a 30' 2x6 to pull that off.  I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it myself.


I've never seen a 2x6 even close to that long!  You should have asked him where in the world, he found such an animal.  Not that it really matters, considering there so many other problems, but...


----------



## steveray

There needs to be a "Warning! Floor may collapse at any time!" sign in that mess of signs....



			
				ICE said:
			
		

> An attic storage/playroom space has been created in garage.  The floor joists are 2x6.  The span is 29'5".  I could not find a splice in the floor joists.  It would take a 30' 2x6 to pull that off.  I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2017
> 
> 
> In the attic space there is a 2x hung from the ridge.  The 2x is then nailed to the vertical 2x.  The vertical 2x is toe nailed to a flat 2x that rests on the top of the 2x6 floor joists.  The flat 2x is face nailed to the top of the floor joists.  This took place at the mid-span of the floor joists.
> 
> View attachment 2018
> 
> 
> View attachment 2019
> 
> 
> The attic is accessed by a drop down stairs.  I was told that the kids use it during the winter when it cools down.  The owner is a fireman.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:
			
		

> This was a first for me.  Everything is painted black so it was difficult to see but I looked closely and didn't see any splice. A splice wouldn't hold up anyway.The lumber had to be special order and expensive.  The flat black paint is odd as well.  The weight of the new carpet is nearly enough to undo the entire construction.
> 
> I didn't want to go up the stairs to get the pictures but I just had to know what was holding it up.  The realtor (it was an open house) must have thought that I'm strange.
> 
> Here's another house with a walk-through closet.
> 
> View attachment 2020
> 
> 
> A doorway was cut in the back of the closet and a walk-in closet was created.  Make a right turn and there is an ironing board and a flat screen tv.
> 
> View attachment 2021


I envy you and all the knee construction techniques you run into!  It must keep life very interesting to say the least.


----------



## steveray

Is the T&P required to be insulated but not the Hydrogen Hydroxide lines?


----------



## ICE

It looks like he is directing traffic.  He is holding a water hose and is spraying down the solar modules.  The building is a public library under construction.


----------



## ICE

When I see something like this, it tends to put a dark cloud over everything that you do.


----------



## ICE

The T&P drain wraps around the water heater, goes into the wall and pops out again at the floor.


----------



## ICE

If you know what this is, you know why it is wrong.


----------



## ICE

It looks like it is coming in for a landing.


----------



## mmmarvel

Paul Sweet said:
			
		

> Your photo in post #818 reminded me of this great installation I saw a couple years ago.


Installation or insulation???  Wow, you take on a project like this if your bored OR if you live in Alaska.  Wow, talk about overkill.


----------



## tmurray

Paul Sweet said:
			
		

> Your photo in post #818 reminded me of this great installation I saw a couple years ago.


Person who owned the building do the work?


----------



## ICE

It is a liner pool in the making.  No plans on site and I'm alone.  My guess is that there will be a cmu wall 3 or four feet tall with a pool in the middle.




There's no permit for a retaining wall.  The shadow, while not the actual power line, reflects the path a 12,000 volt Edison line follows directly over the excavation.  And speaking of excavations, this one is wide open to the street.  And here we go again with the punji stick re-bar.







 

The no power line over the pool is an Edison rule.  Edison's easement usually follows a property line and so do the power lines but not in this case.  So Edison might have a problem here.

This section of the pool barrier looks a little iffy to me.






 

The owner took out the permit and hired a contractor.  There are a lot of corrections.


----------



## ICE

This car wash is nearing completion.  Yesterday they requested an el inspection of the 800 amp service.  There's better than 50 various lugs, bolts and screws with torque settings but they didn't have a torque wrench.  Today they had three...all new.  They admitted that all of the lugs, bolts and screws were loose.  That has happened many times.  They are always surprised at how loose the connections were.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

I like how they proactively moved the wheelbarrow so they would not have to dig it out later.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

Open Casting For 'Catch A Contractor,' Apply Now! | Catch A Contractor | SPIKE

It has gone from Catch a Predator to Catch a Contractor.


----------



## TheCommish

Ice, how may field inspectors in your area? Do they have similar finds daily?


----------



## ICE

In my area there are two inspectors.  The AHJ has 70 or so.  As far as what we find goes, my experience is somewhat unique, or so I'm told.


----------



## ICE

Cellular phone companies are run by nervous people.  This generator has battery backup and there is a plug for another generator to backup the batteries.

There's probably an OSHA rule that requires an emergency shutoff.  So they put it behind a steel door with $50.00 padlocks.




The sign says that you have to log in before opening the door or an alarm will go off.  Just one more password to forget...I don't know about the rest of you but gosh I hate passwords.  And what if the alarm goes off?  Who shows up for that?


----------



## ICE

[/URL]


----------



## MASSDRIVER

That's Dr Suess's house.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

If there's anything left after the fire, the fire dept. can change that up for you.


----------



## ICE

I am continually confronted with lay-in lugs that are installed wrong.  Here they drilled their own hole because the designated hole is on the underside of the module.


----------



## ICE

Flipper got carried away.


----------



## ICE

I was curious about the discoloration on the copper and I was told that was the result of using a Skilsaw to cut the wire.


----------



## ICE

This is a mistake that I just don't get.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

That's an OLD holdover. Haven't seen the bent nail in a long time.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

I couldn't see it without a ladder but I could get a picture.


----------



## ICE

Residential service.


----------



## ICE

I have worked with guys that could break a bowling ball but I've really got to wonder how they ruined this ladder.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> I have worked with guys that could break a bowling ball but I've really got to wonder how they ruined this ladder.


By finding it on the freeway.

Brent.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Alias

ICE said:
			
		

>


Atrocious spelling.  Scary, scary, scary........

Sue


----------



## ICE

Alias said:
			
		

> Atrocious spelling.  Scary, scary, scary........Sue


Shirley they could've fooled me.


----------



## Darren Emery

looks like a stage set to me.  Are they planning an open air drama in their front yard?


----------



## fireguy

Ice, your posts are worth the price of admission.


----------



## ICE

I suppose it's not all that strange to find a garden hose in an attic....but wrapped around a collar tie?


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:
			
		

> I suppose it's not all that strange to find a garden hose in an attic....but wrapped around a collar tie?


I like the trap they created with the flexible hose on the right!


----------



## TheCommish

so how do you put a insect screen and damper on a 4" vertical pipe?


----------



## Mech

It looks like the flex duct on the right is no longer connected to the vent pipe going through the roof.


----------



## TimNY

Is insulation optional in your state?


----------



## ICE

TimNY said:
			
		

> Is insulation optional in your state?


Well not the entire state.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

TheCommish said:
			
		

> so how do you put a insect screen and damper on a 4" vertical pipe?


The damper is integral to the fan unit typically. The pipe never has a screen. The screen would be integral to the roof cap or hood, although I have never seen a screen on a vent hood.

Brent.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE




----------



## MASSDRIVER

An average day







One of many. I love attics

Brent

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MASSDRIVER

An average day






My brand new sure fire hot wire tester.

$64.00 out the door.

These are so good I caught them crawling on floor headed for a wall outlet.

For that kind of money they should arc pretty good.

Brent

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ICE

Burn it just right and you made a wire stripper.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> Burn it just right and you made a wire stripper.


That takes the skill of an expert electrician. I mean one of those _real_ Prima donnas.

Brent


----------



## ICE

It appears to be a condensate drain.  The house is a single story and the coil is in a closet with a condensate pump.




The property is for sale and the HOA fee is low at $46 per month.  The community pool is right next door.




The owner is a handyman.  He installed a service upgrade and a water heater too.





Edison will read the meter forever without hooking it up.


----------



## Alias

fireguy said:
			
		

> Ice, your posts are worth the price of admission.


Ditto what fireguy said.  They are also very educational and a good example of what not to do.

Sue


----------



## ICE

Thanks Sue

I was in this house doing an inspection of the new furnace.  I appreciate quality woodwork.


----------



## steveray

Maybe the wood was green and still growing?


----------



## kyhowey

The incredible shrinking staircase.


----------



## Wayne

Re: An average day

One of those optical illusions.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

It's the staircase of diminishing returns.

Brent.


----------



## Msradell

That sure would be fun to go up and down if you were drunk!


----------



## ICE

Everywhere that they placed sheet metal, they could see through the roof.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Heard at a solar installation job: "Sorry ma'am, but in good conscience we can't install this true wonder of nature and savior of human kind. You will need to have a roof installed before we can proceed."........

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!

Not in this lifetime.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

Actually Brent, that has happened a few times.  A few companies are not installing on shot roofs....or metal roofs.  Then there's the bandits that will be out of business in a few years.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> Actually Brent, that has happened a few times.  A few companies are not installing on shot roofs....or metal roofs.  Then there's the bandits that will be out of business in a few years.


Those dudes should get  free Big Macs or something for doing the right thing.

Brent.


----------



## pwood

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> Those dudes should get free Big Macs or something for doing the right thing. Brent.


Really!!! I'd sooner have a Tabasco sauce enema than eat a Big Mac!


----------



## MASSDRIVER

pwood said:
			
		

> Really!!! I'd sooner have a Tabasco sauce enema than eat a Big Mac!


You have strange tastes.

The enema should be mandatory for the bandits.

Brent


----------



## steveray

pwood said:
			
		

> Really!!! I'd sooner have a Tabasco sauce enema than eat a Big Mac!


Lemme tell you about a time I was cutting up habeneros and then went to the bathroom without washing my hands FIRST........You must really hate MCD...


----------



## TimNY

ICE said:
			
		

> Everywhere that they placed sheet metal, they could see through the roof.


I'm not sure if I am supposed to be looking at the ridge cap or the primary lines going over the pool in the first photo.  The pole is adjacent to the white fence, the white fence is 16' South of the wood fence.. the pool looks like it is closer than that to the wood fence.

What is up with that ridge cap.. never seen anything quite like that, expecially when the rest of the roof looks ok.  I would suspect the contractors, but every piece of cap looks like that.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

TimNY said:
			
		

> I'm not sure if I am supposed to be looking at the ridge cap or the primary lines going over the pool in the first photo.  The pole is adjacent to the white fence, the white fence is 16' South of the wood fence.. the pool looks like it is closer than that to the wood fence.What is up with that ridge cap.. never seen anything quite like that, expecially when the rest of the roof looks ok.  I would suspect the contractors, but every piece of cap looks like that.


We just reroofed a house with that same condition. Roof was still intact but every ridge was shot. I think the folded dimensional stuff must move more with the weather and deteriorates it faster.

Brent


----------



## steveray

Maybe more heat transfer if the sheathing is open at the ridge with no vent?


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

The long





And the short.


----------



## ICE

When this is completed the water heater will be hidden in a kitchen cabinet.  The contractor elevated the water heater because he thinks that is a code requirement and didn't install a smitty pan because he thinks that's an option.


----------



## TheCommish

shaking head side to side


----------



## ICE

I can't see the valve and I hate sticking my hand into the unknown.  The handle hits the wall so I'm not positive that it shuts off the gas.





I am positive that the valve will not fully open.


----------



## ICE

Such a trifling mistake.  The permit says that you are from Fontana. I guess it can wait until you have another job in the area, but wait a minute, you want to get paid huh.  You can make the trip in 45 minutes if traffic isn't too bad.


----------



## Msradell

Just wondering, why do we have 2 different Average Day threads?  It's much easier to just go to one to view all the stupid mistakes that inspectors have found for a given day instead of having to go to to threads.  I can't see any logical reason for having 2 different ones.  It also caused the problem if you want to go back and find something posted previously because you don't the which one to look at.


----------



## ICE

There was a time that the original average day thread froze up.  It wouldn't allow any more posts.  So I started another thread which is average day too.  Then one day months or years later the original thread opened up anew.  So I used it again.  I was curious to see how many views It would grow to before it went off to dead thread land.

Between the two of them, there must be a couple thousand pictures.  Imagine all of the thread titles I would have to come up with for that.  Most of it isn't worth a thread of it's own.  So I do it this way to stay out of some people's way and make it easy on myself.  I'm lazy that way.  Anyway things have slowed down and I haven't done much lately,


----------



## ICE

Here's a good example Msradell.  What title would you give this? Is it worth a thread of it's own? Hardly.





The contractor thinks that the straps are for decoration.





He became angry when I told him that a 120 volt receptacle must be installed on the roof.  It seems that he has been doing this for 20 years and never installed an outlet on a roof.

Later that day I met the owner.  She is 87 years old.  There is a lot of work going on.  New roof, service upgrade, package unit on the roof and get this, a 16 module PV system.  She has paid them $67,000.00 to date with $21,000.00 owed.  And that's just from the checkbook that she could find....there's another one somewhere and she can't remember how much she paid them with that checkbook. 

I checked out the contractor at the license board website and found that he has been sanctioned for ripping of another octogenarian for $213,000.00.  The violation is listed as pending and the license board lets him continue stealing.  The whole bunch of them will flee back to Israel soon enough.

I never would have come across this if another inspector hadn't called in sick.

Damn, this is starting to look like it would have been worth it's own thread.


----------



## Msradell

I fully agree that having a catchall thread is great.  Actually, I think it's easier than having each item in a different thread.  I would however rather see one closed and a new one started with the date it started included in the title.  Maybe do one for each year or something like that.  Several times I've wanted to go back and look at something and new within the Average Day Thread but didn't know which one of the 2 to look at.


----------



## ICE

https://www2.cslb.ca.gov/OnlineServices/Accusations/N2012-209/N2012-209-20130508-Accusation.pdf

The report states that the owner overpaid by $139k because the work was worth $74K.  The truth is that she overpaid by $214K because she was induced to contract for work she didn't want or need.

This ripoff occurred in 2009 and is still pending?  The CSLB is a worthless paper tiger.

I am but one inspector and I ran into this by accident.  I wonder how many victims there have been since 2009?  What the Hell is wrong with our government that they allow this to continue?

This is the service upgrade that was approved by another inspector.  When I got there for a final electrical inspection, the workman immediately opened the enclosure.  There was no approval signature on the permit so I commenced to write corrections.






One of the corrections had to do with the NM in conduit.





So he stripped the NM outer sheath back to the LB.





Look at the mess he made of the underfloor vent.




I explained why this will not be allowed. Then I proceeded to educate him on de-rating factors for heat and more than three conductors in a conduit.  I did that in an effort to prevent further mistakes when he finally installs a j-box and the correct wire.  This was before I knew about the ripoff.  I'm not telling him another thing and he will do it over as many times as it takes to get it right.

The next time I deal with him I want to give him advice on how to improve a thief's game.  You see, a good thief gets the job done without any hiccups.  It is important to be in and out before anyone catches on.  Had the work passed inspection the first time, (well it did, but that was not me) I would have been moving on and perhaps never known what really went down. 

That is what I want to do....big trouble if I do.  This is far from the first time I have run onto this behavior.  The bandits threaten to sue me and the dept.  I end up in front of bosses who are peassed off because I did anything at all, much less went to the DA's office.


----------



## ICE

> Later that day I met the owner. She is 87 years old. There is a lot of work going on. New roof, service upgrade, package unit on the roof and get this, a 16 module PV system. She has paid them $67,000.00 to date with $21,000.00 owed. And that's just from the checkbook that she could find....there's another one somewhere and she can't remember how much she paid them with that checkbook.


She found another check in the amount of $36,000.00 for a preliminary total of $103,000.00.  The contractor showed up while I was there today.  He had another contract that she has signed.  The scope of work is a sub-panel in a two room dwelling.  The price is $29,000.00

She also paid them $32,000.00 for work done to a bathroom at her daughter in-law's home.  I haven't found out what that entails yet.

I spent 20 minutes on the phone with adult protective services.

The contractor promised to have me fired for looking at contracts.  He swears that the last time an inspector got in his way, the inspector (LA City) was fired.  I told him that I was growing tired of this job anyway and I've heard that there's an opening at LA City.

I apprised my supervisor.  I saw instant anger....directed at me.  It was fleeting and morphed into resignation.  I was told to expect a decision from above as to whether I should get involved with deals like this..


----------



## steveray

Good for you! I have had mostly the same luck with our Consumer Protection type people.....Always disappointing....


----------



## kyhowey

I have ran across a couple "suspect" contractors, but nothing on the level of this.  I was talking to one of our other inspectors about how we would deal with a rip-off situation like this and it's a slippery slope.  I would be interested in talking to my boss and the city attorney to get their opinion.  But, at some point, a decision would have to be made by me.  Would I be willing to lose my job over an elderly person being ripped off?  I don't think I could live with myself if I let it pass.  I have a moral obligation as a Christian and a human being to protect those who can't protect themselves.  If that led to me losing my job, I would be okay with that.


----------



## ICE

kyhowey said:
			
		

> I have a moral obligation as a Christian and a human being to protect those who can't protect themselves.  If that led to me losing my job, I would be okay with that.


I feel the same way.  I have civil service protection so they couldn't pry me out of here with a stick.  Not to mention the stink that would get on them if they tried to fire me for protecting a little old lady.

This has happened a dozen times and I get the same BS response each time.  I am told that it isn't my job to deal with this stuff.  My answer is always, "no problem, tell me who's job it is and I will alert them".  I never get an answer.


----------



## Frank

There are some provisions, varies by state, for a judge to break an unconsionable contract.  But first Adult protective services or a family member needs to intervene and then get attorneys involved.


----------



## JPohling

ICE those crooks!


----------



## Alias

Frank said:
			
		

> There are some provisions, varies by state, for a judge to break an unconsionable contract.  But first Adult protective services or a family member needs to intervene and then get attorneys involved.


Ditto what Frank said.  Family, APS, local conservator.

Sue


----------



## ICE

Today I was contacted by the stepson and niece of the elderly lady.  I met them earlier so I do know that they are legitimate.  I was told that they are concerned for her health and the stress of all this is too much for her.  They requested that I stop all proceedings with the license board and Adult Protective Services.

They thanked me for stopping the ripoff at $136,000.00 because it could have easily grown larger.  Then they told me that they hired another contractor to complete the project.

Not only does the bandit get to keep all of the loot, he doesn't even have to finish the work.  He's thinking, "America, what a wonderful place"


----------



## ICE

Every ripoff case that I have witnessed started out with a minor project/problem.  The latest case started with a roof replacement of 600 square feet.

http://digg.com/video/the-art-of-persuasion-explained-in-59-seconds


----------



## ICE

I've never been a fan of indoor-outdoor carpet.  Why is it named that anyway?  Have you ever seen it used indoors?


----------



## ICE

I was on the property to investigate a complaint of an illegally converted garage.  It appears that this house was built without permits.  It is located at the back of a one acre lot and hidden from the street.  It was built in 2006 by the now deceased father of the current owner.


----------



## kyhowey

How does a house get built without permit/inspections and then hooked into utilities?  I guess utility companies could care less about inspections.


----------



## ICE

I was there for a re-roof.  The contractor called me this morning and asked for a same day inspection.  When I reached the roof I saw the rest of the story.  He said that he forgot to mention that he needed an inspection for a service upgrade.


----------



## Msradell

Glad to see you back ICE, I've certainly missed my daily laughs from your pictures!


----------



## ICE

Thanks Lady,

I've been on vacation and when I'm working, I'm not doing that many inspections.


----------



## ICE

A Klingon family lives there.


----------



## mmmarvel

Yeah and I know why you're not doing that many inspections.  The ones you do take time, lots of time.  The old 1 hour inspection doesn't seem to happen to you.  Sheesh.



			
				ICE said:
			
		

> Thanks Lady,I've been on vacation and when I'm working, I'm not doing that many inspections.
> 
> 
> 
> https://flic.kr/p/ngzh15  [/URL]


----------



## ICE

If you have this door it disappears.   





If you have this door $20,000.00, disappears.

If you have this door, this is your view.


----------



## TheCommish

time for a new pool guy or girl


----------



## Chad Pasquini

Looks like the landing exceeds minimum slope


----------



## Msradell

TheCommish said:
			
		

> time for a new pool guy or girl


That's just the way pools look when you do the new approach to pool maintenance! :lol:


----------



## ICE

That's as open as it gets.




The door has been notched to get it open this far.  It hits a bonding bushing that's there because this was done by a solar company.


----------



## Alias

Yeah, maintenance is per the "green code".  :mrgreen:

Sue



			
				Msradell said:
			
		

> That's just the way pools look when you do the new approach to pool maintenance! :lol:


----------



## Frank

Alias said:
			
		

> Yeah, maintenance is per the "green code".  :mrgreen:Sue


Natural pools are living organisms that do not use toxic chemicals for maintenance instead they use natural processes in harmony with nature.  It can be used for innovation points in LEED.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/natural-swimming-pool-zmaz02aszgoe.aspx#axzz32G7uDuuj


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

Our office has a new plan checker.




This is it for a framing plan.


----------



## Mac

"Dimer switch" - does it go up to 10?


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Good lord.

Brent.


----------



## JPohling

cant wait to see the roof plan for that!


----------



## Rick18071

If this is the worst you got your lucky. Once I got a deck plan, all it was was a square on a bank paper.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> If this is the worst you got your lucky. Once I got a deck plan, all it was was a square on a bank paper.


I could probably build that.

Brent


----------



## MASSDRIVER

On a tangent, I was always impressed that Gehry so closely matched this sketch...





With the final product:





Brent.


----------



## MtnArch

Ohh ... I'm sorry Brent - I mis-read what you typed.  At first I thought you said that Gehry so closely MESSED up the sketch!  ;-)


----------



## ICE

He is upset because a board pierced his living room ceiling.

The inspection request was for roof sheathing on a re-roof. 

There is a correction in the picture.


----------



## mtlogcabin

So what code section did you cite? Was this a direct-vent appliance?



The return air plenum is under the furnace and the grille is cut in the door.









The separation from the plenum and the furnace compartment is a rubber gasket that doesn't touch the door.

















Last edited by ICE; March 1st, 2014 at 19:17.









*Blog this Post* *Thanks*


----------



## ICE

It is not a direct vent.  We require a 10' separation between the return air grill and any opening into the furnace closet.  The concern is that the return air suction might overcome the furnace vent.  Code section I don't have.  It could be that nobody does.


----------



## mtlogcabin

I agree with the concern of back-drafting the appliance if the grille in the door did not provide the correct amont of net free area and the space did not provide adequate combustion air. It looks like the dirt marks across the door indicates a pretty snug fit. Lets see 1/8" gap X 32" door width = 2 sq inches of opening. I know we like to err on the side of caution when dealing with gas appliances but unless the combustion make-up air was questionable I don't think requiring the gasket to make contact with the the door would make a difference if the appliance backdrafted or not.


----------



## ICE

We ask for weather strip around the door when it is within 10' of the return air grille.  I see your point but I am not willing to take a chance with CO.

You left this picture out of your reply.  It is the only combustion air opening that I could find.  It's a good 12' from the attic access and there is maybe 24" headroom.  I can't see any daylight coming into the small attic so this will require a ducted combustion air opening from the exterior.  I find it aggravating that contractors don't know about this, or don't care.




When I returned for a re-inspection, I found that the door had been cut into two pieces so that the return air grille was not in the door.  The door was sealed properly and the combustion air opening was still plugged up with debris.  There were other corrections but this was over a month ago and I can't remember all of the details.


----------



## High Desert

ICE said:
			
		

> https://flic.kr/p/nzaXaA  [/URL]He is upset because a board pierced his living room ceiling.
> 
> The inspection request was for roof sheathing on a re-roof.
> 
> There is a correction in the picture.


sheathing not nailed to roof members? Mismatched tire on his car?


----------



## steveray

Looks like only 1 nail in sheathing board....R602.3(1) for 1x6 sheathing 2 8d's face nail per bearing


----------



## ICE

High Desert said:
			
		

> sheathing not nailed to roof members? Mismatched tire on his car?


There's a couple hundred feet of replaced sheathing that has one nail at every other rafter.


----------



## High Desert

ICE, loolks like they want another re-roof really, really soon after this one fails.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

First floor of a two story apartment building.  There was a fire.  This corner was found to be rotten.


----------



## ICE

This is a walk-in bathtub.  The access to the disconnect is through a plastic cover.  I hate those covers because I worry that I will break it trying to open it.



	

		
			
		

		
	
   [/URL]

From the outside, you can see the edge of a disconnect.





This is a rat's view:





This is the sub-panel that feeds the disconnect.


----------



## jar546

ICE said:
			
		

> This is a walk-in bathtub.  The access to the disconnect is through a plastic cover.  I hate those covers because I worry that I will break it trying to open it.  From the outside, you can see the edge of a disconnect.
> 
> This is a rat's view:
> 
> This is the sub-panel that feeds the disconnect.


I have seen that before inside kitchen cabinets.


----------



## ICE

Chris found a big one buried in a kitchen wall.  After seeing that, I realized that nothing is impossible.


----------



## ICE

There's going to be a patio cover.  It will be made from aluminum.  It is not large.




This is the footing.  43" square and 3' deep.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Is it attached to a Chinook Helicopter?

Brent.


----------



## ICE

[/URL]

Well in his defense, he is a roofing contractor.  The Sun messes them up.


----------



## ICE

[/URL]

Waste not, want not.


----------



## ICE

Retro-fit windows are a bargain.  Especially used.  There are a bunch of them at this house.  To bad they didn't understand the concept.



	

		
			
		

		
	
  [/URL]



/url]

The shim was omitted to clear hardware and daylight shows through.  One would think that if daylight shows through here, water will get in.


----------



## ICE

Here at the access, reaching the furnace is easy.




It's a different story with the other one.  Not a big house either.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> Here at the access, reaching the furnace is easy.It's a different story with the other one.  Not a big house either.


Getting some frosty winters in L.A. lately?

Brent.


----------



## TheCommish

Run,  it is a flex monster


----------



## ICE

I'll take a dozen dobbies with that steel, thank you.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

The owner arrived at the same time as I.  The permit was taken out by the owner.  I said, "An Owner Builder permit is only allowed if the owner lives at the property"  He said that he plans to live there.  I said, "I'm going with the for rent sign"


----------



## mmmarvel

ICE said:
			
		

> The owner arrived at the same time as I.  The permit was taken out by the owner.  I said, "An Owner Builder permit is only allowed if the owner lives at the property"  He said that he plans to live there.  I said, "I'm going with the for rent sign"


Would you believe ... I'm going to rent it to myself???


----------



## e hilton

Two thoughts.  Some people just don't think about the clues they leave lying around.  And I'm impressed with the clarity of your pictures.  What do you use for a camera.


----------



## ICE

The camera is a Nikon coolpix S9500


----------



## ICE

Simpson Strong Wall


----------



## ICE

The bottom steel is in the dirt.


----------



## TheCommish

Another do over. I never understand why we can afford to fix it, but not do it correctly the first time


----------



## ICE

TheCommish said:
			
		

> Another do over. I never understand why we can afford to fix it, but not do it correctly the first time


Unfortunately it was approved by another inspector the day before I observed it.  I have been instructed to not write corrections on work that has been approved because that makes the department look bad.

I was filling in for that inspector and the inspection request slip said "footing".  As it turned out, that footing was at a different location on the same property. I didn't know that because the other inspector didn't sign the permit for this work.  So I started to make comments.  That's when a job  card was produced with the approval signature and the contractor canceled my inspection.

There were three people there, the owner, the owners designer, and the contractor.  As I was walking away, the designer asked me if the contractor will have to fix the things that I pointed out.

There was no footing steel across the top of the footing at the garage door openings. The steel is in the dirt at the bottom.  The forms are crooked and flimsy.  The HD anchors are against the dirt.  There are no sill splice bolts.  There is a stem without an anchor bolt.  None of the dowels are set in epoxy.  The steel is under the dirt at the slab.  There is an interior footing with no anchor bolts.   There is waste pipe with no protective wrap.  The steel isn't tied.  The overlaps are too short or not at all.  The slab hasn't been thickened where the new slab meets the existing.  The Strong Wall templates aren't there and this will result in a void under the plywood that holds the bolts.

I was there for less than three minutes....didn't look at the plans....didn't get close enough to the work and could have written at least 14 corrections.

But hey now, the department is looking really good......and I like a short inspection.

I am certain that there are people that will see this and be offended by my cavalier attitude.  I have tried to work within the system towards a solution.  There is no cooperation.  It's not my problem to solve.


----------



## jwilly3879

We Do It Nice construction. Because we do it twice.

I'm fortunate to have good contractors working in my jurisdiction, except for sanitary tees, the plumbers can't seem to get that correct. I even gave them pictures of where they can be used. Most just don't get it. I think after cutting up his work the latest on might remember.


----------



## Phil

Ice,

When the designer asked if the contractor will have to fix these things, did you ask the designer what do the contract documents require?


----------



## Chad Pasquini

Ice, do you have contact with the other inspectors in your office? or are you completely on your own, this project looks like a real good learning opportunity for the Other Inspector.


----------



## ICE

Chad Pasquini said:
			
		

> Ice, do you have contact with the other inspectors in your office? or are you completely on your own, this project looks like a real good learning opportunity for the Other Inspector.


Chad,

His desk is five feet from mine.  He knows what is right but doesn't seem to care.  I don't say anything...to him or anyone else....well there's you and the folks that see this but here in the office I pretty much keep to myself.  If I do bring it up, I am branded as a trouble maker.


----------



## Chad Pasquini

Well at least you can take solace in the fact that from what I have seen on this board, you do your job to the best of your ability, I have learned a great deal from your posts. Keep up the good fight


----------



## Rick18071

I'm curios, if the plans don't show any rebar but it was put in but not right would you make them fix it?


----------



## e hilton

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> I'm curios, if the plans don't show any rebar but it was put in but not right would you make them fix it?


Architects are famous for a couple of notes on plans.  "verify in field"  "by others"  "contractor to coordinate"  and applicable to your question: "all work shall be in compliance with local codes".


----------



## ICE

Rick,

I would start with why the plans don't show any steel. Beyond that, if the steel is not required and that's why it's not on the plans, how could it be wrong?

The only mistake worth fixing that comes to mind would be if the steel was susceptible to rusting. And only because rusting steel can crack concrete.

I wonder if your's was a trick question.


----------



## fireguy

ICE said:
			
		

> Rick,  The only mistake worth fixing that comes to mind would be if the steel was susceptible to rusting. And only because rusting steel can crack concrete.QUOTE]
> 
> I used steel in the foundation of my garage because that is what the B/O said to do.  I did not coat, wrap, paint or tar the steel.  Do I need to worry about my foundation cracking?  I saw steel laid into the freeway this summer, before the concrete was poured.   I did not see any protection of the steel.  Will the concrete crack?


----------



## steveray

FG....there are minimum cover requirements for concrete over rebar....ASCE 318 I think it is....depending on the application, 1.5 to 3"ish....


----------



## jaycee

There are various government projects going on in state of Hawaii due to spalling. Most of the deficiencies I've noticed was because the reinforcing steel had lack of concrete coverage. The state of Hawaii is paying big for the "minor" mistakes that the contractor/inspector missed. Keep up the good work gentlemen, and require that the minimum concrete coverage of reinforcing steel is met.

ALOHA


----------



## JCraver

steveray said:
			
		

> FG....there are minimum cover requirements for concrete over rebar....ASCE 318 I think it is....depending on the application, 1.5 to 3"ish....


_*ACI*_ 318, from the American Concrete Institute.

I'm rather strict about cover requirements here - too strict probably if you were to ask the contractors....  Rusty rebar will indeed bust the crap out of concrete though, so I'm gonna' continue to enforce it like I do.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

A little rust coating won't hurt "normal" flat work or slabs. It will sometimes get a light coat and stop there. The problem is around generally salty water conditions, like near a coast line. Then it burrows into the steel and causes flaking which expands the steel.

Brent


----------



## ICE

I don't know but I've been told that rust enhances the bond between steel and concrete. It's only if there is a loss of cross sectional area that is a cause to reject the steel.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> I don't know but I've been told that rust enhances the bond between steel and concrete. It's only if there is a loss of cross sectional area that is a cause to reject the steel.


Makes you wonder who would use bar so degraded that material has been lost to oxidation. That would be some real crap. I don't think I have ever seen something like that used, but I'm sure some have.

Brent.


----------



## Msradell

fireguy said:
			
		

> ICE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw steel laid into the freeway this summer, before the concrete was poured.   I did not see any protection of the steel.  Will the concrete crack?
Click to expand...

I'm betting that the steel you saw blade for the expressway was green in color.  If it was that's an epoxy coating and what's normally specified for highway construction.


----------



## ICE

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> Makes you wonder who would use bar so degraded that material has been lost to oxidation. That would be some real crap. I don't think I have ever seen something like that used, but I'm sure some have.Brent.


I've never seen it either but that's the code.  I know a guy that used bed frames....hundreds of them....he owned a second hand furniture store/auction.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> I've never seen it either but that's the code.  I know a guy that used bed frames....hundreds of them....he owned a second hand furniture store/auction.


Now see here!

I was sure I owned the "crap I've seen" title, when my dad and I did a block grant rehab house lift, and found out the entire sewer system was done in firehose, and garden hose for the supply.

Then you shell me like the Bismark drilling the Hood with bed frame rebar.

I got nothin'.

All is not lost though. I'm working in Hillbilly country up in Forestville so I still have a chance to redeem myself.

Brent.


----------



## Phil

The Concrete Reinforcing Steel Institute, CRSI, has a free tech note, Field Guide for Rust on Reinforcing Bars. See the link to CRSI 's free downloadable documents at http://www.crsi.org/index.cfm/landing/engineer


----------



## JBI

The folks who make it promote the heck out of it. The main 'issues' seem to be potential for damage to the coating that is not addressed at time of installation which can cause excessive localized corrosion and diminished bonding of the steel to the concrete. The comments I've seen relative to these concerns also recognize that concrete quality, proper re-bar placement, and excessive use of salts (I live in the northeast, so salt used for snow/ice on bridges/roads is an issue).


----------



## mmmarvel

Being a special inspector (for a testing lab - in my past life) I've done thousands of inspections of rebar for concrete.  Roads, sidewalks, driveways, building foundations (one of the most interesting was the rebar mats, 4 of them, that were put on the bottom side of a jewelry store vault).  Anyways, typically (90% of the time) a bit of rust on rebar is fine.  I did a rehab on a parking garage recently where it was specified that the rebar be epoxy coated.  Yes, proper coverage with concrete is the key element.


----------



## Frank

mmmarvel said:
			
		

> Being a special inspector (for a testing lab - in my past life) I've done thousands of inspections of rebar for concrete.  Roads, sidewalks, driveways, building foundations (one of the most interesting was the rebar mats, 4 of them, that were put on the bottom side of a jewelry store vault).  Anyways, typically (90% of the time) a bit of rust on rebar is fine.  I did a rehab on a parking garage recently where it was specified that the rebar be epoxy coated.  Yes, proper coverage with concrete is the key element.


Parking garages are always an issue with corrosion due to deicing salts carried in on the vehicles


----------



## e hilton

mmmarvel said:
			
		

> one of the most interesting was the rebar mats, 4 of them, that were put on the bottom side of a jewelry store vault).


I build a lot of banks, and the spec for the slab under the vault is 18" of concrete with minimum 4 layers of #6 bar 6" OC both ways.  The concrete sub has to be careful about using the vibrator propery to get the concrete to fill all the gaps between the rebar.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:
			
		

> Thanks for that.  How about the walls.....and the ceiling.....what can you tell me about those?


----------



## High Desert

Nice try ICE. I've reviewed a number of banks and they don't like to give out the details of the bank vault, for obvious reasons.


----------



## ICE

Ya, I was surprised when he told us what the floor has in it.  You've got to remember that Brent sees this.

If he's quick, he can become a sawhorse and edit his post.  Or maybe fatboy and his pudgy little orange fingers can do it for him.

We have an ordinance regarding who can see plans....banks and ice cream parlors are off limits.  The ice cream parlors I can understand but when was the last time anybody dug there way into a bank vault.  Those enterprising sort of criminal are a thing of the past.

Nowadays the real crooks have the combination to the vault so it's just another box.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

3 Banks jobs in my time. (Construction ICE, CON-STRUC-TION).

Same grid as before, extended 3 feet out on all sides past the vault line, something like 2 feet deep. Steel and concrete layered wall and roof panels, like composite armor. All welded at the seams. The vault door and jambs were impressive.

I heard the good stuff is in the casinos though.

Thinking about pulling The Italian Job, but in Orange County. Gonna use a murdered-out 68 Camaro for the geteway.

You in?

Brent.


----------



## mmmarvel

e hilton said:
			
		

> I build a lot of banks, and the spec for the slab under the vault is 18" of concrete with minimum 4 layers of #6 bar 6" OC both ways.  The concrete sub has to be careful about using the vibrator propery to get the concrete to fill all the gaps between the rebar.


The mats need to be off-set from each other so that someone trying to drill in from the bottom will encounter rebar, followed by rebar, followed by rebar.  It was the only vault that I did, but I found it very interesting.


----------



## mtlogcabin

ICE said:
			
		

> e hilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for that.  How about the walls.....and the ceiling.....what can you tell me about those?
Click to expand...

[h=2]The Future[/h]Bank vault technology changed rapidly in the 1980s and 1990s with the development of improved concrete material. Bank burglaries are also no longer the substantial problem they were in the late nineteenth century up through the 1930s, but vault makers continue to alter their products to counter new break-in methods.

At issue in the twenty-first century is a powerful tool called a "burning bar" or "thermic torch." Burning liquid oxygen ignited by a oxyacetylene torch, this bar burns much hotter than an acetylene torch, getting up to 6,602-8,006°F (3,650-4,430°C). The torch makes a series of small holes that can eventually be linked to form a gap. In the future, the vault manufacturing industry will likely come up with a means to combat the burning bar. Then perhaps criminals will find a more powerful tool, and the industry will change its products again. Vault manufacturers work closely with the banking industry and law enforcement in order to keep up with these advances in burglary.

Read more: http://www.madehow.com/Volume-7/Bank-Vault.html#ixzz38Odb00Yi

http://www.madehow.com/Volume-7/Bank-Vault.html

Here you go ICE. My advise is find an older bank


----------



## ICE

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> 3 Banks jobs in my time. (Construction ICE, CON-STRUC-TION).Same grid as before, extended 3 feet out on all sides past the vault line, something like 2 feet deep. Steel and concrete layered wall and roof panels, like composite armor. All welded at the seams. The vault door and jambs were impressive.
> 
> I heard the good stuff is in the casinos though.
> 
> Thinking about pulling The Italian Job, but in Orange County. Gonna use a murdered-out 68 Camaro for the geteway.
> 
> You in?
> 
> Brent.


You need to rethink that.  Go with a white Camry.


----------



## e hilton

There's nothing secret about bank vault construction.  We use reasonable measures to keep the good people honest.

Modern vaults now have modular walls and ceiling, precast sections of very high strength concrete in sections about 2 ft x 8 ft or the height of the vault.  Cast in place walls are a thing of the past.  There are pieces of angle iron around the perimeter that is used to weld one section to the next.  Typical walls are 9" thick, and the vendor is careful to include all necessary conduits when casting them, the word is that they are almost impossibble to drill when cured.

But the real security is cameras and alarms.  We spend a ton on cameras, and the images are crystal clear, nothing like what you see on the news about the perps that stick up the local c-store, where you're lucky to tell if they are even looking at the camera.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:
			
		

> the word is that they are almost impossibble to drill when cured.


I love a challenge Brent.


----------



## ICE

7-24-14

8.5 feet deep




Brent, I got the phone # of the kid that dug the hole...can you speak Spanish?


----------



## ICE

7-24-14

A serious lack of motivation.


----------



## ICE

7-24-14

It went from this:




to this:




I can't decide which one is worse.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> I love a challenge Brent.


He said "almost".

Brent.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> 7-24-14It went from this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't decide which one is worse.


Dude, you gotta stop.

That made me blow boogers on my keyboard.

I wanna say they are just cheap, but damm, That's 100 bucks of gorilla snot.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

Service upgrade

The contractor was really old the last time I saw him and that was ten years ago.

He used to do passable work.

He must have sold his company.

He packed the abandoned roof jack with tar.  By the looks of it, that tar never gets hard.  So eventually it will dribble inside the wall.












This is a new one on me.  If it were done correctly it might not be a bad idea.  I wrote a correction that said: "Automotive wire splices are not allowed"


----------



## ICE

Another inspector sent this to me with a question about the handrail.  I would have been laughing too hard to take a picture.


----------



## TheCommish

ICE do you pass anything and have photo to prove it?


----------



## ICE

TheCommish said:
			
		

> ICE do you pass anything and have photo to prove it?


Eventually everything passes.  Well maybe not everything.  Now and then a contractor will bail and the owner is left with a mess and not enough money to make it right.

The same thing happens with owner builders.  They become overwhelmed and give up.

The electrical job just before this post is a good example.  There were a dozen corrections and one of them was that the cabinet can't be over the old flush mount cabinet.  Knowing that he will have to start over may push him over the edge.  He's probably collected a down payment that's large enough to cover the material and figures it's not worth working for minimum wage.  And away he goes....but not before convincing the owner that the installation is safe and the problem is the inspector.

If nobody asked Edison to spot the meter, they are in the clear until they try to get a permit for something else. If they did ask Edison for a meter spot, Edison will send them a letter telling them that the service will be stopped unless the Building Dept. approves a hookup.

I've seen plenty of those Edison letters but I'm not aware of anyone actually being shut off.  Edison's usual approach is to never shut off anyone's power unless they quit paying the bill or are stealing electricity.  You know, electricity is energy.  Energy can't be destroyed.  So how can they call it stealing?

A couple times a year I get a call from an Edison planner asking me to inspect a property because they think that it's dangerous and want to shut it off.  Guaranteed it's one step from being on fire.


----------



## ICE

I am curious to know what Edison will do with this one.


----------



## Msradell

Well they can't complain about it being too close to the roof!


----------



## TheCommish

Maybe some #10 to the vent stack will solve the physics problem


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:
			
		

> 7-24-14A serious lack of motivation.


What is that stuff on the roof?  Looks like busted open sandbags.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:
			
		

> What is that stuff on the roof?  Looks like busted open sandbags.


That is correct.  The sand bags held down the blue tarp.  All have rotted.  I can't remember the last time we got a good soaking.


----------



## ICE

7-29-14

Final inspection for a re-roof


----------



## ICE

7-29-14

Service panel upgrade.  The contractor was there to meet me.  This is the old service enclosure that is now a j-box.  This was the only thing wrong.


----------



## ICE

7-29-14

This job had been lathed without a framing inspection.  I asked them to remove the lath.




So then I asked them to go a little further and remove the flashing.


----------



## ICE

7-29-14

The foundation plan sends you to detail #9 on page A5.




Detail #9 has two sections.  A PLAN and B DETAIL.

A plan has this:




B DETAIL has this:




Well they thought that they had a choice ....and picked the wrong one.


----------



## ICE

7-29-14

The contractor works for HD.

I wrote a correction to raise the vent two feet above the adjacent roof.  I wasn't sure if two feet is the right number....I still don't know.




This is the result.




I wrote a correction to raise the heater 3" above the adjacent dirt.  That number I am sure of.




This is the result.




Not only is it styrofoam, it's only 1.5"


----------



## ICE

7-29-14

They must do this in other places.  Perhaps this is a milestone that gets them a draw.


----------



## ICE

Thats a pipe wrapped in black tape.  I almost missed it.  I will always ask in the future.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> 7-29-14It's not like they are slouches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...what we've got here is failure to communicate.


Those forms don't stand a chance. No wedge ties for one thing. If you no got wedgies, you want heap big stakes.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> Those forms don't stand a chance. No wedge ties for one thing. If you no got wedgies, you want heap big stakes.Brent.


It does look a little weak.  I didn't get that feeling when I was there and the crew has experience but I'll pass it along to the inspector that has that area.

This one of the features of this forum that serves us well.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

It's embarrassing when concrete puddles at your feet. Especially when you want it to be a stem wall.

Ask me how I know.

Brent.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:
			
		

> 7-29-14 This was the only thing wrong.


What's wrong?  That the old panel is now a j-box?  Or that the ground wire under the set screw is still insulated?


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:
			
		

> 7Detail #9 has two sections.  A PLAN and B DETAIL.


How can you blame the grunts in the field?  The plan view shows an 18x18x 12" thk footing, but the detail shows the footing min 26" thick.  Archy screwed up.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:
			
		

> 7I wrote a correction to raise the vent two feet above the adjacent roof.  I wasn't sure if two feet is the right number....I still don't know.


Except that the horizontal run of pipe is not sloped, I commend their solution.  Not only is the pipe higher than the adjacent roof like The Man asked for, but it's also well supported.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

e hilton said:
			
		

> Except that the horizontal run of pipe is not sloped, I commend their solution.  Not only is the pipe higher than the adjacent roof like The Man asked for, but it's also well supported.


It's about 85 bucks of home depot crap.

There is no defending that, so please don't.

Brent.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

You have to know boilerplate when you see it.

Everyone I drink with knows it's details first, plan second.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:
			
		

> What's wrong? Or that the ground wire under the set screw is still insulated?


That's it.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:
			
		

> Except that the horizontal run of pipe is not sloped, I commend their solution.  Not only is the pipe higher than the adjacent roof like The Man asked for, but it's also well supported.


Actually, the support is not good at all.  A gravity vent is not allowed to have more than one 60 degree bend and the rest at 45 degrees.  There is no need for any bends.


----------



## e hilton

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> It's about 85 bucks of home depot crap. There is no defending that, so please don't.
> 
> Brent.


Oh, so now you are concerned with cost?  When did that become part of your domain?


----------



## e hilton

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> You have to know boilerplate when you see it. Everyone I drink with knows it's details first, plan second.
> 
> Brent.


Then you're drinking with the wrong crowd.  The overall plan should come first, then the appropriate details are selected to suit the conditions.  That's how the archy earns his fee.


----------



## e hilton

I did not know those details, so i CONCEDE.  hOWEVER, i SUSPECT THE INSTALLER WAS CONCERNED THAT RAISING THE PIPE AS HIGH AS YOU WANTED, USING THE SKILLS AND MATERIALS AT HIS DISPOSAL, THE (damn caps lock.  sorry)  pipe was going to be unsupported.  He's wrong, but he did try to make the installation sturdy.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:
			
		

> I did not know those details, so i CONCEDE.  hOWEVER, i SUSPECT THE INSTALLER WAS CONCERNED THAT RAISING THE PIPE AS HIGH AS YOU WANTED, USING THE SKILLS AND MATERIALS AT HIS DISPOSAL, THE (damn caps lock.  sorry)  pipe was going to be unsupported.  He's wrong, but he did try to make the installation sturdy.


Oh $h!t kid, he's a plumber.  He doesn't know anything about sturdy.  It's not sturdy. It is flimsy.  And beyond ugly.

Before I hear that ugly is not in the code....I know that and that's what I told the owner....ugly is up to him and he has a right to get a not ugly job.


----------



## ICE

The job is a service upgrade done by a past owner.  The new owner took out a permit.

Notice that the hinge pins are missing.




The pins are missing because the door will not swing open.  It takes a hammer.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

e hilton said:
			
		

> Oh, so now you are concerned with cost?  When did that become part of your domain?


Really? That's your reply?

Well, I'm a magnanimous bastard and will give you another try. So try harder.

Brent.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

e hilton said:
			
		

> Then you're drinking with the wrong crowd.  The overall plan should come first, then the appropriate details are selected to suit the conditions.  That's how the archy earns his fee.


You are 180 degrees out of phase friend. You bore down into detail sheets to EXPLAIN the overall plans. Otherwise you would not know about specific connections or dimensions.

Plans say "shear wall 2". You go to the details and schedules to find out what that is, nailing, spacing, frame component size, anchoring hardware specs.

I'm not calling you dumb, but if that is the way you read plans, you should find a mentor or something. Details before plans resolution is basic and industry wide. That's not even arguable.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

There is a misalignment going on here.  Doesn't look all that bad.

I used my bionic arm to take the picture.




Until you see the big picture.  It is 6" pipe so the plumber told me it was no big deal because the pipe will never be under pressure.  I can't leak if there's no pressure he says.




I told him that I was putting him under pressure because I want to see a CAL-OSHA trench permit.

Does anybody care about being dead in a trench?

I don't know the stats on how many people suffocate in a trench cave-in every year but it happens too often in SoCal.

That is the topic that started this thread.  Damn, I've been yammering on for better than two years and it all looks the same.


----------



## e hilton

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> You are 180 degrees out of phase friend.


Apparently we are speaking different languages, I can't believe you and I are this far out of phase.  Here's what I'm talking about, with regard to the design of the project.  the archy starts with the overall concept, starts with the basic floor plan on sheet A-1 and then the elevations on sheet A-2, then goes into the details.  Somewhere along the way there is a foundation sheet that is based on the architectural floor plan, and as part of the foundation plan the archy selects the correct details from his cad files of details and pastes them on the sheet.  I really doubt that the archy (or engineer) says "I think on this job i will use a bunch of S-3 footings, I wonder what kind of building I can put over them".  The details are a very important and integral part of the design, it's what separates a professional set of plans from the house plans you can order from the back of Southern Living magazine.


----------



## ICE

The drawing that got you guys to talking was a plan in a can.  That is evidenced by the conflicting information.  Had the reference to the details found on the foundation plan said  9/SD5(A) or (B) there would most likely not been such a mistake.  There's always a bunch of details that don't apply.  I've had single story buildings with full on elevator details.

I used to plan check...and I asked that all the BS sizzle be replaced with steak.


----------



## ICE

I will point to a neighbors house and say, "There you are Sir, that's what it is supposed to look like."

That didn't work today.


----------



## steveray

ICE said:
			
		

> That's it.


Are you sure it wasn't conductive insulation?....Did you check the listing?.....


----------



## ICE

The person that did this was suckered into building a tiny room addition on piece work by a contractor that doesn't give a rats :butt what it looks like.  The entire mess is 225 sq ft. and I have been there 15 times....with another six to come.  It is a bedroom extension, bathroom and walk-in closet.  I have written 29 corrections.  Most of the time, the work isn't ready, yet it was ten days since the corrections were written.  It took four attempts to get the windows flashed correctly even though I explained it in detail each time.

The guy knows nearly nothing about construction.....but he does know how to complain to the office manager.  That started when I made him remove the work from the top plates up.  Why my office manager pays any attention to this idiot is beyond me.

The midget is in his early twenties....English is a second language and every eighth word is discernible....He has crude tattoos and calls me Boss....I have been expecting to hear "Permission to pee Boss"....He has an abundance of attitude and knows his rights.  He thinks that one of his rights is to have me reprimanded and replaced.







The office manager listens to him shout what an expert builder he is.  Then I hear "I'll make sure that you get the first inspection tomorrow/ yada yada yada.  I expect the manager to tell him that he's an idiot and get the Hell out of my office.  When I suggest such a reply, I'm told that any complaint from anyone must be treated like all other complaints.  In other words we must take them all seriously and treat all complainants with the utmost respect.

What a bunch of crap that is.

The idiot needs to be told that he's an idiot.  How else is it going to get through to him that he's an idiot.  Legitimizing his complaint takes legitimacy away from a legitimate complaint.

We will be these people soon enough http://www.wimp.com/indiapakistan/


----------



## ICE

8-6-14

Do you see a fatal flaw?




Does this help you?


----------



## ICE

The valleys were created by an addition done long ago.  I wrote a correction to install crickets.  Within an hour I received a call from the office because the roofer wanted me back there to inspect the crickets that he says are now installed.  When I declined, he asked if I would accept pictures and let him finish roofing.

Look at the garage in the background.




If he knew the code, he could potentially whip me on this one.



> R907.1 General. Materials and methods of application used for re-covering or replacing an existing roof covering shall comply with the requirements of Chapter 9.
> 
> Exception: Reroofing shall not be required to meet the minimum design slope requirement of one-quarter unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent slope) in Section R905 for roofs that provide positive roof drainage.


There are enough oddities about the addition to the house and garage that I do believe that they are bootleg.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> 8-6-14Do you see a fatal flaw?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does this help you?


Cap connection not meant for 6x6 post.

Brent


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:
			
		

> 8-6-14Do you see a fatal flaw?
> 
> Does this help you?


No elevated post base on the slab?  Not fatal.

6x6 post notched to 4x4 just below the beam?

Goofy splice plate in the beam?

King post not aligned over the 6x6?  But I think it's close enough for load transfer.

Ridge beam twisted from vertical?

Top of windows not aligned with top of door.

The section of solid wall on the far right of the porch ... is that part of the seismic requirtement?


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:
			
		

> I wrote a correction to install crickets.  Look at the garage in the background.


Looking at the garage in the background, it looks like there is a flat section in the valley from end to end.  Is that what you are calling a cricket?  If so that must be a regional thing, on the right coast a cricket is a diverter on the high side of a chimney to help guide the water around the chimney.

Can you explain the 1/4" per foot comment.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:
			
		

> Ridge beam twisted from vertical?


There ya go.  The twist will continue with nothing to restrain it.  It's a fatal design flaw.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:
			
		

> Looking at the garage in the background, it looks like there is a flat section in the valley from end to end.  Is that what you are calling a cricket?  If so that must be a regional thing, on the right coast a cricket is a diverter on the high side of a chimney to help guide the water around the chimney.Can you explain the 1/4" per foot comment.


Around here, a cricket is what keeps me awake at night....or is it a frog?  It can be hard to tell them apart.


----------



## Phil

ICE said:
			
		

> There ya go.  The twist will continue with nothing to restrain it.  It's a fatal design flaw.


Do the rafters have a birdsmouth at the top so they sit flat (or have a couple inches of bearing) on the ridge beam?


----------



## pyrguy

Rafers should have a plumb cut so the end fully bears against the ridge


----------



## ICE

ICE said:
			
		

> The valleys were created by an addition done long ago.  I wrote a correction to install crickets.  Within an hour I received a call from the office because the roofer wanted me back there to inspect the crickets that he says are now installed.  When I declined, he asked if I would accept pictures and let him finish roofing.Look at the garage in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If he knew the code, he could potentially whip me on this one.
> 
> There are enough oddities about the addition to the house and garage that I do believe that they are bootleg.


It's the next day.  This is what the picture would have looked like had I said yes.


----------



## ICE

Phil said:
			
		

> Do the rafters have a birdsmouth at the top so they sit flat (or have a couple inches of bearing) on the ridge beam?


Phil,

Click on the picture and it takes you to Flickr.  Then right click on the picture.  Now there is a window that lets you pick the size of the picture, click on original.  You then have a picture that won't fit the screen because it is too large.  But you can scroll to the beam and see a birds-mouth.  It is small but there.  I had to do all of that to answer your question because I didn't pay attention to that while I was there.  I was filling in for another inspector and only looking at the lath.


----------



## ICE

8-8-14

Day three.  There are crickets.  Little things that fit right in with the jungle.


----------



## Paul Sweet

The mini-cricket might work for southern California rains and lack of snow if they install a strip of peel & stick.  I wouldn't trust it for Virginia rains and snow.

On the 8-6-14 photo is there a strap behind the beam between the lower & upper posts for uplift?


----------



## ICE

Paul Sweet said:
			
		

> The mini-cricket might work for southern California rains and lack of snow if they install a strip of peel & stick.  I wouldn't trust it for Virginia rains and snow.On the 8-6-14 photo is there a strap behind the beam between the lower & upper posts for uplift?


You have a good eye Paul. No, there isn't a strap.

The bottom of the 6x post isn't attached at all.  I asked about that and was told that a steel post is on order.  Since the framing and roughs were approved I didn't have a reason to go there.  I did ask them to install a receptacle for the patio area.


----------



## ICE

I hear about inspectors that never go on a roof.  I know inspectors that never go on a roof.  I like to get on the roof.

https://flic.kr/p/oBPefd

I've even heard of inspectors that don't go in attics....I know a few of them too.




This was done by a contractor that never called for an inspection.  I expired the permit and left a notice on the front door.  The owner acquired a new permit and called for inspection.  So then a year after the fact, a contractor gets corrections...14 of them.


----------



## ICE

What do you say to crap work like this?   They must have used a Swingline 747.




I wasn't the inspector for the raised floor framing.  When I inspected the roughs, I told them to cut out underfloor vent holes.  Sometime after that I told them to clear the insulation from the vent holes.  The piece worker said "I know that and you aren't here for that".  At the final inspection, I will tell him again because, well then of course, I will be there for that.

They left a broken screen because they just don't care.


----------



## Paul Sweet

Going back a couple pages: "How can you blame the grunts in the field? The plan view shows an 18x18x 12" thk footing, but the detail shows the footing min 26" thick. Archy screwed up."

IRC requires foundations to be at least 12" below undisturbed ground, and untreated wood posts to be at least 8" above grade.

Most sets of drawings and/or specs. have notes saying that larger scale details take precedence over smaller scale plans or details, and to contact the architect if a conflict is discovered.  When I was in private practice I always asked contractors to let me know when they found a conflict or mistake on drawings I had done, so I would know better in the future, and not make the same mistake again.  Unfortunately, I went on to make new mistakes more often than not.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Paul Sweet said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, I went on to make new mistakes more often than not.


We are members of a very large, non-exclusive club.

Brent


----------



## conarb

Tiger:

The biggest problem is that that vent isn't flashed at all, those cuts in the corner of the lath paper are going to leak and rot out the joists.


----------



## ICE

conarb said:
			
		

> Tiger:The biggest problem is that that vent isn't flashed at all, those cuts in the corner of the lath paper are going to leak and rot out the joists.


   It will look better when they get done caulking the the paper to the penetrations.  That's what the correction always says, "Caulk the paper to the penetrations".  The result can be a whole nother problem.

Years ago the HR dept. (it was a big company) came to me and complained that there are no women working in the construction dept.  Well women never applied.  The HR dept hired a woman and told me to put her to work.  I gave her a caulking gun.  Her job was to caulk between the lap siding and the trim.  There's not many jobs that a woman can do on a construction site.   At the end of the first day she was covered in caulk.  It was everywhere.  She  needed scissors to get it out of her hair.  She hung with it for a week before quiting.  By then, she was kinda hard to look at.


----------



## ICE

The job is solar on a roof.  The lug was installed wrong so they had to remove the wire and do it over.  To further complicate the issue is the bend in the wire.  90º bends are to be avoided.  That's true with all wire but more-so with grounding.

The reason is that as the hole that was occupied by an electron makes it's way around the circuit, a frenzy of electron activity can develop if the the voltage is high.  For example, a 12,000 line falls on a 240 volt line..... it's your turn to get hit by lightning.  When those frenzied electrons hit the corners, they act like teenage girls on the 405 and pile up in a wreck.

The solar contractors have enough of a bad time with me. To start writing that correction would push them over the top.


----------



## ICE

A wall furnace was replaced with a furnace in the attic.  Final inspection was requested.  The abandoned vent has been left in place so that bugs have a way out.  The vent isn't that old because the wall furnace wasn't old.  It must have been a bootleg.




The wall furnace was replaced because there is a concern that it might be





.
	

		
			
		

		
	




The return air grill is directly above, in a hallway that leads to two bedrooms and the bathroom.  The hallway has a door that blocks it off from the rest of the house.  There is 30 sq.ft of floor space.  I wrote a correction that told them to provide return air from a space => 25% of the conditioned floor space.

That was #4 of four corrections.  Another inspection was requested and nothing was done about #4.  The lady HO told me that they didn't understand #4.  So I gave them options to work with.

1. Remove the door and case out the opening.

2. Install a transfer duct from another room to the hallway.

3. Undercut the three doors 2".

4. #4 was suggested by the owner.  Place a transfer grill above each door.

The contractor called my office manager asking why I am requiring a return air grill in every room.  This contractor isn't a newcomer to the business.  The guy that called my office must be.  At least I hope that's true....this company installs better than 100 furnaces per month.

I write the insufficient return air correction at least twice a month and I inspect around 20.

It has been my experience that you are more likely have a better outcome with a small shop than you will with the big splashy ad contractor.


----------



## ICE

Now that's some screwed form work.



I wondered why that is wet...then I spotted the dog Shirley, that's the answer.


----------



## ICE

A flipper bought this house and stopped work two years ago.  The drought has helped preserve the property from overgrowth and decay.




The neighborhood deserves better.




Go Green and plant drought resistant foliage.


----------



## ICE

The contractor has a B license {general building contractor}  There are two permits.  One is for an electrical service upgrade and the other is for a hose bibb.

This junction box is where the previous service enclosure was located.




I asked the contractor's employee to ruin a keyhole saw in a failed attempt to remove the cover of the type 1 j-box.  As luck would have it, he had one.




You may be wondering why there is a plumbing permit to install a hose bibb.  Well that's because California contractors law won't allow a B license to obtain a single permit for a specialty trade.  The law will allow a B license to obtain two permits for two specialty trades as long as they are not related to the same scope of work.

For example, a B license could not obtain just a mechanical permit for a furnace and a plumbing permit for a gas pipe that supplies that furnace.  Clearly a service panel and a hose bibb are not related to each other in any sense of the word.  So it is legal for a B license to obtain an electrical permit for a service upgrade and a plumbing permit for a hose bibb.

This is a common practice to circumvent the law.  The contractor will replace a 30 year old hose bibb with a one year old hose bibb and everybody is satisfied......did I say everybody......that should read almost everybody.

Here's the thing that trips them up when I am the inspector.  Replacing a hose bibb does not require a permit.  If I am presented with a plumbing permit for a hose bibb, I understand that to mean that a hose bibb will be installed, at a location of the owners choosing, where none existed previously.

In this particular case, the lady was pleased to find out that she would be getting a new hose bibb.  I opined that the detached garage would be a handy place to have one.  Then somehow the conversation drifted to Workmans Comp Insurance and how this contractor has none.

Now some of you would say that I am being mean to a hard working, self employed person that's doing their best to earn a living.  Like I said, this is a common practice that works everywhere except under my nose.  My answer is, "Let them take their keyhole saws and work in your jurisdiction"


----------



## chris kennedy

Pics of inside your NEMA 1 outdoor box?


----------



## ICE

There is a building permit to legalize a bathroom that was created where there had been a closet.




Right away, this one seemed odd.  The former closet was in the living room next to the front door and large in comparison to the rest of the house.




Stepping outside I could see where there was a large window in that former closet.




Then I saw this conduit.





We get a lot of after the fact permits.  The illegal construction is usually well seasoned. There is always an implied hope that we will be able to approve the work with the least amount of destruction possible.  There's going to be dashed dreams aplenty.


----------



## ICE

This is where Edison spotted the meter.  The contractor said that he asked about working space clearance and was told that this is safe enough for the Edison workers.  A jog in the retaining wall won't be a big deal but a better spot was around the corner and it would have been safe for more than just the Edison workers.


----------



## ICE

chris kennedy said:
			
		

> Pics of inside your NEMA 1 outdoor box?


He couldn't get the cover off.  My screwdriver was in the truck.  I try to not touch their work.  I really should have loaned him a tool because a picture was what I wanted when I asked him to open it.  I wrote a correction to replace the J-box with a 3R.  Since I didn't see inside the J-box, I didn't see that they didn't use wet location wire nuts.  I'll bring tools next time.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:
			
		

> [uThis is where Edison spotted the meter.


How does that work.  The HO or gc calls the electric company and asks them to mark where the new meter location will be, they mark it, and everyone accepts it and works from there?  Does Edison ever make a mistake?

Looks like this might not have been the best place.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:
			
		

> Does Edison ever make a mistake?


According to Edison, that would be NO.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:
			
		

> According to Edison, that would be NO.


As my wife would tell my toddlers ... use your words.  Can you explain a little more for those of use not from the land of fruit and nuts.  Obviously the poco is not goping to admit being wrong, but you implied that's not the best location.  Is there ever any negotiating with them?  Does their location choice always meet building code?


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:
			
		

> There is a building permit to legalize a bathroom that was created where there had been a closet.  .


Can you explain a little nmore why you were suspicious.  Looks like nice quality work.  What about the large window made you suspicious?  The overhead conduit doesn't look properly supported.  Did the conduit lead you to suspect a garage conversion to living space?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:
			
		

> Can you explain a little more why you were suspicious.


I wake up that way.


----------



## mtlogcabin

> Being a curious sort, I asked to see inside the garage.


What would you have done if the refused to let you see inside the garage?


----------



## ICE

For starters I wouldn't have written a correction to obtain a building permit to convert the garage back to it's original condition as a garage....yet.  Beyond that, nothing else would change.  I was already convinced that the construction is all new.

The EMT is cause enough to ask for an electrical permit, so I would have been in the garage sooner or later.


----------



## ICE

Well crap...here we go again.

I spotted a half unit of T1-11 in the driveway and figured there must be an addition being built.  The contractor was out front and he said that there a "Little bitty patio cover going up".




Too bad that he doesn't have a little bitty permit.


----------



## ICE

The job is underpinning the existing foundation.  There are other details with steel size and dimensions.  There is a contractor.




The major drawback here is that there is no existing foundation.




You can see the shoring that they planned on leaving in place.




I don't know how thick the slab is.  I don't know why they thought the form work was going to work.


----------



## ICE

I can't fit my hand between the furnace and the framing.  I can't see the gas valve or the furnace disconnect.  The contractor was waiting for me.


----------



## TheCommish

Here in New England

View attachment 1089


View attachment 1089


/monthly_2014_08/WP_007840.jpg.596185339833f9cfa04d74b3c85d423b.jpg


----------



## Rick18071

Don't think that roof will hold the New England snow.


----------



## ICE

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> Don't think that roof will hold the New England snow.


There shouldn't be much snow on that roof.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Plans state: Excavation: Using the A-B-C method, please explain?

pc1


----------



## Wayne

Re: An average day



			
				Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> Plans state: Excavation: Using the A-B-C method, please explain?pc1


Divide up the area to be excavated in slots of ABC in repetition so you don't undermine all of the footing at one time then you only dig out all of the "A's".  Then come back and do the "B's" and so on.


----------



## ICE

In post 1080 we met a keyhole saw electrician.  He was told to install a hose bibb in a location of the owners choosing.

I don't know for sure but I'm guessing that he didn't do that.




I voided the permits on the grounds that he obtained them illegally.

I will be told by management that I must let it go.....you know we did issue the permits so....yada yada yada blah blah blah  Then I will hear that the clerks will be told to stop allowing that.

What a bunch of bull shlt.  As soon as a contractor gives the clerks a hard time, they will roll over and issue the permit.  They don't get paid enough to take shlt from contractors.  If they hand them over to the office manager, the manager will take shlt for just so long and then tell them "We'll do it this one time but don't try this again"......  for the hundredth time.....this year.

I will lose the battle....again.  But I will make him get another plumbing permit..... he installed two hose bibbs and has permit for just one.

I almost forgot about the electrical corrections.  I was right, he didn't use the correct wire nuts but he did install a 3R J-box.  One of the previous corrections had to do with correction factors for heat and number of wires in a conduit.  They are clueless.

The kid with the saw was the person that met me today.  He asked me to tell him what to do about correction factors.  I told him to ask his employer.

The contractor will complain about that too.  I will hear that I refused to explain the corrections.

Well there are options when dealing with correction factors.  So now do you want to figure out what wire would work with that conduit?  Do you want to figure out how many conduits it would take with that wire?  Can you drop the breakers down to 15 amp?  Am I supposed to explain all of the options?

How's he going to do any of that with a keyhole saw.

Management doesn't get the fact that when they allow these crap contractors to have permits, inspectors have to deal with the mess.


----------



## e hilton

_As soon as a contractor gives the clerks a hard time, they will roll over and issue the permit._

That's not my experience.  If you show soem respect to the clerk you get respect back.  If you step on their toes your permit gets misplaced for a day or two.


----------



## mmmarvel

e hilton said:
			
		

> _As soon as a contractor gives the clerks a hard time, they will roll over and issue the permit._That's not my experience.  If you show soem respect to the clerk you get respect back.  If you step on their toes your permit gets misplaced for a day or two.


It depends on how the department works/backs each other up.  In some departments, give a clerk a hard time and suddenly everything on your plans gets looked at VERY closely.  Ditto the inspector, suddenly your work gets looked at with exacting detail.  As I put it (not to the contractor but to my BO) every "I" will be dotted and every "t" will be crossed.  He will follow the letter (and measurements) of the plan.

Now if you have a BO that is holding to the mayor or one that wants to become the mayor ... might be time to look for another job.


----------



## Frank

e hilton said:
			
		

> _As soon as a contractor gives the clerks a hard time, they will roll over and issue the permit._


You upset my clerks you upset me.  Upsetting clerks will NOT expedite your permits.  Fuss at me if you need to but don't upset the clerks.


----------



## TheCommish

I did not know where to put this thread seem the best. tToday on an insulation inspection the sat in the kitchen, I know the board hangers make a mess but the snow blower as a clean up tool??

View attachment 1090


View attachment 1090


/monthly_2014_08/WP_008385.jpg.c6ae20f2db7e7976716491d592851b4d.jpg


----------



## steveray

TheCommish said:
			
		

> I did not know where to put this thread seem the best. tToday on an insulation inspection the sat in the kitchen, I know the board hangers make a mess but the snow blower as a clean up tool??
> 
> View attachment 2444


They are missing the plate +2" nail plate on the HW line....


----------



## ICE

The other side of the wall is some guy's back yard.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

^^^Do you ever just get insulted?

Brent


----------



## TheCommish

steveray said:
			
		

> They are missing the plate +2" nail plate on the HW line....


yep cited that


----------



## ICE

TheCommish said:
			
		

> look like they lost a phase


That's what I was told.  It's a HO permit.  The voltage measures normal until there is a load and then it drops to near zero.  I asked them what Edison told them and they said that Edison wouldn't look at it unless they replace the service and get a release from the building dept.  Well the service has been replaced but the release is on hold.  I intend to call Edison.  I also plan on e-mailing these pictures.  Edison should know better than to ignore a dead phase.  I am hoping that the HO got his wires crossed and Edison didn't really tell him that he is on his own.


----------



## ICE

http://digg.com/video/watch-what-a-magnitude-6-earthquake-does-in-china-vs-the-u-s

The difference in the outcome of similar earthquakes in China and the USA


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:
			
		

> http://digg.com/video/watch-what-a-magnitude-6-earthquake-does-in-china-vs-the-u-sThe difference in the outcome of similar earthquakes in China and the USA


Yet we still get flack from contactors and owners that think the code is overkill.

Everyday I get:  "but I don't have to do that in Texas...."

And I tell them to go back to Texas....


----------



## e hilton

TheCommish said:
			
		

> look like they lost a phase


And all the blank plates.

Why would you need 2 x 20A breakers for outlets in closets?


----------



## steveray

^^^^^^ That is awesome.....Does it actually work?.....Where do they meter?


----------



## ICE

The meter is next to the street.  I didn't turn the valve but the owner says that's the valve that shuts off the water to the house.


----------



## steveray

That is so nice that you got the sealtite smiling back at you!


----------



## Paul Sweet

It's a good thing that "It Never Rains in Southern California"

I don't know how you can keep a 30x zoom steady, I can hardly keep it steady at 10x.


----------



## Inspector Gift

Hey, at least they installed "seismic straps" on that AC unit.  And they did it without being asked.


----------



## mmmarvel

ICE said:
			
		

> Is it just me or does it look like something is missing?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh I get it.....there should be one of these......only different than this.


It's just you - the small rock wall looks fine -


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:
			
		

> Solar contractor doing a service upgrade.


Let me guess.   the solar contractors proposal says "vinyl siding work by others".


----------



## ICE

The electrical work was done by a subcontractor.  He explained that the wall will be put back together by another subcontractor.  Evidently, the solar contractor has a scheduling problem.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Rick18071

I give up. Does he need seismic straps?


----------



## TheCommish

maybe a safety harness and  lanyard to a approve tie off


----------



## ICE

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> I give up. Does he need seismic straps?


A cup of coffee.


----------



## mmmarvel

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> I give up. Does he need seismic straps?


A job as a roofing inspector???  (Granted, I'm stretching a bit).


----------



## ICE

There's lots of this:


----------



## ICE

It was left open and energized....waiting for inspection.




I removed half of the company's name because we aren't supposed to identify anyone....I can tell that it rhymes with ti***....darn it, I can't say that either.


----------



## ICE

They insulated the T&P drain pipe.....because they just did a similar job in the city of Norwalk and they are quite certain that the Norwalk inspector insisted that they do this.

So I wonder if anybody else requires this and if so, why?


----------



## ICE

This is a mistake that hurts and there is a bunch of it.


----------



## ICE

It's odd that I wouldn't have given it a second thought back when I actually worked for a living.


----------



## ICE

When the plumber installs a window.




When that same plumber does a service.


----------



## ICE

Raised floor framing inspection.  Not enough wire is strung and they are ready to insulate.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> It's odd that I wouldn't have given it a second thought back when I actually worked for a living.


Wuss





Brent


----------



## fatboy

Yeah, I shudder when I think of some of the means I used to get elevated to do the work...........


----------



## ICE

I used to spot for a crane.  Sometimes there was only one way to reach a perch where I could see the operator and the load.  I would straddle the headache ball and get a ride.  Getting off was easy, getting back on could be scary.


----------



## fireguy

fatboy said:
			
		

> Yeah, I shudder when I think of some of the means I used to get elevated to do the work...........


I took on a job cleaning an exhaust system on a 2 story hotel.  I did not know it was built with 12 foot ceilings on the first floor and 10 foot ceilings on the 2nd floor.  My ladder is not that tall, and I do not have a way to transport a ladder that tall.  The customer  parked his pickup on the sidewalk, I extended his ladder full length.  I barely could reach the railing around the fan and pulled myself up to the work platform.  I usually take the wand and hose with me, that day I took a rope with me.  I had tied the rope on the wand and pulled the hose and wand up.  I cleaned the fan and duct, and lowered my equipment to the ground.  Usually I go down the ladder, change the pick-up tube to fresh water and return to the roof and rinse off the fan.  Not that day, one trip was enough.  After I got down, I looked at the grease I blasted off the fan, it landed on his freshly primered pick-up.  Two boys were washing cars across the street. I gave them $5.00 bucks and told them to do their best.  They got some grease off.

About 5 years and 2 or 3 owners later, I got a phone call to fix the fan.  I declined.


----------



## ICE

The drop is long.




The conduit laid over.  The garbage man spotted it before he snagged it with his truck.  Edison came to the scene and did a temporary repair.




The crease in the conduit is visible above the jack.




According to the contractor, Edison's records show an emergency repair over a year ago.


----------



## ICE

It's Sunday morning and I had to go to work because a car ran into a AM/PM convenience store.  The fire dept. made the store close. There is no electrical or plumbing involved and hardly any damage to the store.  The other side of the wall is behind the counter area.  Not worth the four hours overtime and driving 65 miles.  It isn't even in my area so I wonder why I got the call.




I did notice the propane storage cabinet has been ripped from it's anchors.  A car hit that too....a month ago.  There are no bollards protecting it.  It's not really my call since I don't work for the fire dept. but I told the owner to put in a couple bollards and anchor the cabinet.  He was so happy that I told him to reopen his store that he just said no problem.


----------



## ICE

I received a call from a solar contractor.  He wanted to know at what stage do we require a rough inspection.  I explained that the inspection should take place after everything but the panels is installed.  That's when he described the mounting feet.  He told me that according to the approved plans there is a three part system of mesh and tar that seals the roof.  i told him to use a tar that will harden and sprinkle granules into the tar before it sets up.




That tar will never become solid....that's a good thing


----------



## Wayne

If that's a granule, what's a boulder?


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Somewhere there is a railroad missing some ballast.

Brent.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Landscaping rock thievery going on, in the hood?

pc1


----------



## ICE

It looks like a #3 roofing rock.


----------



## Pcinspector1

I get my #3 sky hooks and my #3 roofing rocks confused, which one is certified by ASME?

pc1


----------



## ICE

The job is a re-roof.  The carport is a bootleg.  2x6 rafters span 20'.  You talk about spongy...this one is.




The light fixture gets it's power from lamp cord.







He gets to keep the carport but after dark, he's in the dark.


----------



## ICE

1:30 PM in the jungle.




This is the the service panel.  The two new breakers at the bottom are the PV connection.


----------



## Msradell

I'm sure that she did roof will really help generate a lot of electricity from those solar panels!


----------



## MASSDRIVER

I've never seen breakers like that.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> I've never seen breakers like that.Brent.


Those predate electricity.


----------



## TheCommish

I still have them in my town hall and old school built 1949


----------



## Pcinspector1

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> I've never seen breakers like that.Brent.


Surfs up, dude. Get your board!


----------



## Pcinspector1

Aha... Pushmatic panel, should replace with a FPE or Zinco to get with the times!  

Just had a rusty ol Pushmatic panel replaced here, had two 75amp main shut off breakers. You could actually shut off one 75 and the other side of the residence would still be energized, not good!

pc1


----------



## ICE

The job is a service upgrade to accommodate PV.  This is the old cabinet.  You can see that it is a surface mount with KOs missing in the back.




This is the new cabinet.  As you can see, it is also a surface mount and it's quite a bit longer than the old cabinet.




This is where the old cabinet was mounted over an old recessed cabinet.  The plan was to place the new cabinet over the recessed cabinet/hole.




This method is practiced, mostly unimpeded, on a large scale.  I turn it down every time.  And every time, I hear "You've got to be kidding.  I've done it this way for years and you're the first inspector to say no".  I don't think that they are lying about that.

The contractors that do this are not all hacks and bandits either.  I have inspected many jobs with clean, correct work...except for this one fatal flaw.  The disappointment on their faces tells me that they don't see anything wrong with this.

In as much as this happens so often and I am convinced that I stand alone with this correction, I am thinking that I might just lay off.  You know, what the Hell, houses aren't burning down....so many are past their expiration date anyway....why should I keep pi$$ing these people off?


----------



## north star

*~ & ~ & ~*





> "In as much as this happens so often and I am convinced that I stand  alone with thiscorrection, I am thinking that I might just lay off.   You know, what the Hell, houses aren't
> 
> burning down....so many are past  their expiration date anyway....why should I keep pi$$ing
> 
> these people   off?"


Shirley you are not not considering "laying off" !  :-o......I thought that you wereon a mission.........You have already created an atmosphere of wanting things done

correctly.......If you are "standing alone", that makes you a very, very valuable

Code Sheriff !.............Besides, who is going to [ at least ] attempt to try to keep

the contractors somewhat honest & compliant ?

Also, ...in looking at all of your posted photos & commentaries, ...you;  my Forum

friend, are in your element !...........I would say that your present position is your

ministry [  i.e. -  trying to make a positive difference in your community   ].

I say, ...keep on fighting mediocrity, whenever and wherever you can.

We appreciate all of your efforts on here.



*~ & ~ & ~*


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE,

The code ministry is calling, please change your handle to "GOD of CODES" or "CODE GOD!" or like Northstar suggested "Code Sheriff". ICE sounds like some kind of new drug name.

First photo of the old box has the Zinco breakers, the home inspectors here tell the homeowners they need to be replaced.

pc1


----------



## MASSDRIVER

The title of "Code God" has already been self ascribed by a member on this forum,as well as all it's implied forms and iterations.

Brent


----------



## mtlogcabin

Ice

We will be taking over electrical from the state so I have been using your photos and discussing them with my inspector who will be doing the electrical inspections. He agrees with you it is wrong because the recessed box becomes an inaccessible junction box when the new surface panel is installed over it. His suggestion was install an outside weather resistant gutter box to use as the junction and then install the new panel above it.

He did mention the state has allowed this practice for past 15 years he has been doing electrical work. So it is not uncommon


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> the recessed box becomes an inaccessible junction box when the new surface panel is installed over it.


There is a requirement for an accessible J-box, however I would not call the old cabinet a J-box.


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> the state has allowed this practice for past 15 years he has been doing electrical work. So it is not uncommon


The first time I turned this down was the first time that I encountered it.  I was a new inspector with a large organization.  I didn't know that I was going to be alone on this.  Of course I heard the whine that I am the only inspector that does this but I get that a lot and most of the time it is BS. After more than a few of these, the contractors went over my head to the Electrical Section head engineer.  That still happens after all these years.  My correction stands.  But if you think about it, the engineer couldn't say otherwise.

Several times I have asked the head engineer to send a bulletin to each district office and every inspector explaining the problem and the correct way to deal with it.  I was told to prepare a draft with pictures, which I did.  Nothing has been sent.  I quit asking.

So I still turn it down....not just because it is wrong.  I do it because it can be so wrong.

Here's a good example that I have posted previously.  The cabinet is mounted over 16 gauge sheet steel which has been placed over the existing recessed cabinet.  I was assured that the sheet steel was caulked to the building and water can't get in.  It seems that any time silicone caulk is used, leaks are an impossibility.




They swore up and down that there were no splices in the wall.  I said show me...so they did by cutting through a bedroom wall.




They were somehow convinced that if they opened the wall and there were no splices, I would have to approve the work.

If service cabinets are allowed over existing recessed cabinets and holes, nobody is looking at what's in the wall.

This is the kind of stuff that is left in walls when nobody is looking.




The correction isn't a small thing.  The entire job must be done over.  Too often the cabinet won't work and must be replaced.  The contractor loses the customer's confidence.  And probably any referrals.  That could hurt in a small jurisdiction.

Well then mtlogcabin, you are a levelheaded guy that "gets it" and I would like to know how you handle this when it's your turn at bat.


----------



## ICE

There's about 30 of these.







There's about 40 of these.  I probably shouldn't inspect these when it's raining but it beats sitting around an office.

There's a couple dozen of these.




They always act like I am crazy when I require a torque wrench..  They never have one.  They always say that the company has only one and it is on another job.

The kid told me that he didn't crank them too tight and the lugs are made that way.  I asked him to remove one and kept it.




He and I were standing on the roof when his phone rang.  It was his boss.  The kid told the boss that they didn't pass inspection by a long shot.  Then I heard him say, "Oh by the way, I left the gate open and the customers dog took off".  I guess the boss didn't like hearing that....The last I saw of the kid, he was running down the middle of the street.  I left the correction slips on his windshield.


----------



## mmmarvel

They always act like I am crazy when I require a torque wrench..  They never have one.  They always say that the company has only one and it is on another job.

You really want to see them go nuts??  Ask when the last time the torque wrench was calibrated?  Ask for the paperwork on it.  The look on their faces is priceless.


----------



## ICE

I was there for a rough inspection on roof-top PV.  I always ask to see the service at the rough inspection.

The cord and plug is there in case they want to power the house with a generator.




That attachment plug is filled with water....and is energized.




The panel dead-front is missing but the owner says "not to worry, it's in the back yard somewhere".


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:
			
		

> T
> 
> 
> 
> .


Is there something visibly wrong in the picture?


----------



## TheCommish

to me either the conductor is to small for the fitting of the screw is at an angle that may prohibit proper tightening to the conductor


----------



## Phil

e Hilton

It looks like the screw was over tightened and this bent the lug. (Notice the tilted screw)


----------



## TheCommish

no stress marks on this one



			
				ICE said:
			
		

> The kid told me that he didn't crank them too tight and the lugs are made that way.  I asked him to remove one and kept it.


----------



## ICE

No stress marks but obviously bent.


----------



## TheCommish

Hmm, how did they bend it with a small conductor?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Is that type of grounding clamp required to have a (UL) stamping?

pc1


----------



## Mech

Manufacturing process defect?


----------



## ICE

TheCommish said:
			
		

> Hmm, how did they bend it with a small conductor?


It was bent with a screw driver.  I removed the setscrew and tried to thread it in upside down.  It will not work because the screwdriver forced apart the sides of the slot.  Force applied to the setscrew is what bent the body of the lug.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> Is that type of grounding clamp required to have a (UL) stamping?pc1






To be used for grounding PV panels and rack, the lugs must be listed to Standard #2703.  This is an Ilsco product.


----------



## TheCommish

gorilla electricians



			
				ICE said:
			
		

> It was bent with a screw driver.  I removed the setscrew and tried to thread it in upside down.  It will not work because the screwdriver forced apart the sides of the slot.  Force applied to the setscrew is what bent the body of the lug.


----------



## e hilton

TheCommish said:
			
		

> gorilla electricians


Or maybe they set the screw with an impact driver and didn't let go of the trigger soon enough.  Remember ... they only have one torque wrench and it's on another job.


----------



## ICE

We don't get a lot of lightning but it's not like it's unheard of.  This is Edison at work and it rained most of the day.


----------



## ICE

When it is temporary power, a lot of contractors think that whatever they do is good enough.







The gas station is open for business.


----------



## ICE

There was nobody there and this is all there was for a plan.  Our stamp is not on this plan.  I didn't have a magnifying glass so I couldn't read it.




The orange rebar caps should all be in a straight line with the first and the last.




When I pushed the rebar to a vertical position the bottom steel ended up against the dirt.




And all of the dobies are on the wrong bar.


----------



## ICE

The caller was frantic.  It seems that his neighbor has removed two huge pine trees as well as tons of dirt.  There is now a cliff where there once was a hill.  He is worried that the gardener might fall to his death.  Who can help him?, he asks.  Where is the property line/....he needs to know.  Should he start with a lawyer and then come to the Building Dept.?  Or is it the other way around?  Oh Please Mr. Building Inspector, Help Me, Help Me.


----------



## ICE

The contractor is the owner/flipper.  He changed 14 windows.  Initially he installed retrofit windows in rough framed openings.  That won't work so he replaced them with new construction windows.  (windows with a nail flange)  He is a general building contractor that only does commercial work.  Even so you would think that they could figure out lath and windows.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:
			
		

> A house flipper hired this guy to perform a bunch of work.  The work racked up over twenty corrections and I didn't inspect the furnace or el service upgrade because those items were done without a permit.    So since they have an approved plan


Is that the contractor wearing a Ferrari shirt?

If the furnace andf electrical were upgraded without the required permit, why couldn't you have red tagged the project?

I have bee on the re3ceiving end of the approved plans and then the field inspector finds something that was missed.  Really sucks, and I can understand why they want a free pass.  Considering how much the permit and plan review fees have been increasing, and the awfully long time it takes to get plans back from plan review, it's a bit hard to understand why something like that was missed.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:
			
		

> Is that the contractor wearing a Ferrari shirt?  If the furnace andf electrical were upgraded without the required permit, why couldn't you have red tagged the project?
> 
> I have bee on the re3ceiving end of the approved plans and then the field inspector finds something that was missed.  Really sucks, and I can understand why they want a free pass.  Considering how much the permit and plan review fees have been increasing, and the awfully long time it takes to get plans back from plan review, it's a bit hard to understand why something like that was missed.


The plan for a window change out is one sheet and is plan checked over the counter.  Sill height is seldom shown on the plan.  It's up to the applicant to know basic codes.


----------



## e hilton

_ is one sheet and is plan checked over the counter. _

Even more reason to not miss it.  One sheet ... can't be a whole lot to check.

_ Sill height is seldom shown on the plan. _

But if it's clear that windows are being changed, and complying with egress codes is mandatory, maybe that's something that needs to be required on the plans.

_ It's up to the applicant to know basic codes._  True.  But mistakes happen.  The drawer of the plans probably knew that and simply forgot to add the note, one would think the contractor would know the requirement but most simply build to the plans ... sometimes.

Sidebar:  we're building out space on the first floor of a 5 story mixed use building, brand new, we're the first occupant.  Developer's architect did not think through the need for freion lines to the roof, or exhaust fan chases.  There are shafts dedicated to the freon lines, but no way to access the shafts except at the ceiling of the first floor and the roof.  We're fighting the base building architect about the need to secure the freon lines at the proper intervals (every 10 ft, i think).  Problem is the shafts pass through apartments on the upper floors, the walls are complete and painted and the developer doesn't want us to cut holes in the shaft walls to anchor the lines.  Apartments are not occupied yet.  After much cussin & discussin we simply cut holes in the shafts as needed, it was delaying our work.

So now we're negotiating how to repair the access holes.  Base building architect says to add an access door.  We say fine, tell us what model.  He says use anything.  We point out that 1: he is the architect of record, if it's done wrong it's on his stamp, 2: the shafts are UL rated, shouldn't the access doors also be properly rated?  He finally saw the issue.  Then we point out that the UL wall type on the oplans calls for 1" shaft liner on the shaft side, then a gap for the studs, filled with insulation, then 2 layers of 5/8 rock ... and by the way mr architect of record, there is no insulation in the cavity and only one layer of rock ... maybe you better have a converssation with the GC.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

If you don't have a xxx- by 3-6 window, you probably don't have an egress window. One of those red flag things that everybody in the pipeline should know.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:
			
		

> _ is one sheet and is plan checked over the counter. _Even more reason to not miss it.  One sheet ... can't be a whole lot to check.
> 
> _ Sill height is seldom shown on the plan. _
> 
> But if it's clear that windows are being changed, and complying with egress codes is mandatory, maybe that's something that needs to be required on the plans.
> 
> _ It's up to the applicant to know basic codes._  True.  But mistakes happen.  The drawer of the plans probably knew that and simply forgot to add the note, one would think the contractor would know the requirement but most simply build to the plans ... sometimes.


I agree with you about providing information to applicants.  We are after all, nothing more than the purveyors of information.

There are a number of common mistakes that could be addressed by handouts.  The handout could be stapled to the permit and plans.  The reasons that we don't do that are many.

Where does it stop?  How much instruction is enough?  How much is too much?  If we show them one way to accomplish something are we obligated to show them all of the other ways to reach the same result?  What liability do we take on?  We've been doing it this way ever since the creation of the building code.  That's more work than plan checkers are willing to do.  Let the inspectors deal with it.

There have been more than a few instances where I started to give advice at the counter and was rudely rebuffed.  Some people take it as an insult.  So unless I am asked for advice, I assume that folks know what they are doing.

Sill height on an egress window is a no-brainer....along with safety glazing where required....a catch the child guard if the sill is below 24"....and what's so difficult about light and ventilation minimums.... well Hell, we can just eliminate most of the windows....etc.


----------



## ICE

At the previous inspection I told them to cut out the underfloor vents.  I also told them to place a flat 2x6 block.




This time around it was, the word vents is plural and here's a tip on installing the blocks.




In the long run these guys could do okay.  The work is cut tight and true so as long as there's no fatal flaws this could be an easy job for me.  I'm even gonna tell them about black paint ....after they cut in the rest of the vents.


----------



## ICE

It's a day later and they are looking more inept than I figured.


----------



## ICE

The job is a remodel of an expensive house to accommodate adult day care.  It is unusual to say the least.  I was there to verify that the FD has signed off on the sprinklers.  The regular inspector is on vacation.  The contractor told me that he had a verbal okay to drywall if the FD signed off.  I said well then you can square it with the inspector when he returns.


----------



## ICE

I was in the neighborhood so I took another look.




Another issue I had with this job is that there is no dam for this shower stall.  The top of the drain is about level with the floor.  At best it will be 1/2" lower than the floor. The reason that they left out the dam is that the toilet is about 15" away from the pan and a dam will be too damn close.


----------



## mtlogcabin

> Sill height is seldom shown on the plan. It's up to the applicant to know basic codes.


So will you tell them the 2012 edition changed and the maximum height is now measured to the window opening.

This is now consistant with the building code way of measuring the maximum distance from the floor to egress windows


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> So will you tell them the 2012 edition changed and the maximum height is now measured to the window opening. This is now consistant with the building code way of measuring the maximum distance from the floor to egress windows


I have always measured to the net free opening.  I didn't know that there was another way until you brought it up.


----------



## steveray

ICE said:
			
		

> I have always measured to the net free opening.  I didn't know that there was another way until you brought it up.


Me too....ahead of the curve I guess....


----------



## mtlogcabin

2009 IRC

R310.1 Emergency escape and rescue required.

Basements, habitable attics and every sleeping room shall have at least one operable emergency escape and rescue opening. Where basements contain one or more sleeping rooms, emergency egress and rescue openings shall be required in each sleeping room. Where emergency escape and rescue openings are provided they shall have a sill height of not more than 44 inches (1118 mm) above the floor.

2012

 Where emergency escape and rescue openings are provided they shall have a sill height of not more than 44 inches (1118 mm) measured from the finished floor to the bottom of the clear opening.

IBC

1029.3 Maximum height from floor.

Emergency escape and rescue openings shall have the bottom of the clear opening not greater than 44 inches (1118 mm) measured from the floor.

the IRC language is still screwed up with referring to "sill height" and "clear opening" since they are rarely the same height.


----------



## ICE

Yes sir, there's that J-box....just like you said it was.




The work is being done by the owner.  This is the second inspection.  At the first inspection all he had completed was mounting the new cabinet.  It has been a week or more and he has no power.  He is angry with me because I won't release the power until all of the work is done and passes inspection.  He laments that he may never have power again....he might be right.


----------



## ICE

This started in post #1188.  That day I met a workman and his 12 year old son.  I wrote a bunch of corrections.  It was difficult because I felt sorry for the son what with him witnessing his father's failure.  Today was the next inspection.  Well actually it's the third time for him and the second for me.  On his second inspection he gave us the wrong address.  It might be a dyslectic issue because the numbers were mostly reversed.  As it turned out we had a permit for that address too.  So I went there instead...late in the day.  Of course they had no clue as to why I was there.  Our inspection request slip had a name and number on it.  Jose was his name.  And wouldn't you know it, the guy doing the job at the wrong address is named Jose....I mean what are the odds.

Today I met the father and son.  I'm thankful that I never had to witness my father be embarrassed.  There came a point that I wanted to tell the kid to go wait in the truck, but of course I couldn't do that.







There is a pool and the equipment was moved and replaced along with an electric service upgrade.  One of the corrections that I wrote was to provide GFCI protection for the pumps and light.  He did this.




This guy works for a contractor who in turn is working for Flipper.  Somehow it falls on me to get it done correctly.  You should see what he did about the equipotential bonding grid.

They waited most of the day and when I got there it was, "This is wrong, that's wrong, you missed half of the corrections"  I was running late because I had 14 stops today and all of them convoluted.  So I bailed.  I just said be here tomorrow at 9:30.  Part of me wants to fire the guy.  But then there's the boy.  I'm stuck with him.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

The problem is the flipper.

If you seem him, kick him in the nuts.

If it's a woman, kick her in the nuts as well.

Brent.


----------



## TheCommish

it is bad when someone can look at the picture and say this doesn't look right, without have to open a book


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE Quote: He laments that he may never have power again....he might be right.

So... he was lamentable! New word for the day, was this word used on O'Reilly last week?

You have to look it up!

Thanks ICE!

pc1


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE Quote: I'm thankful that I never had to witness my father be embarrassed.

My daughter has witnessed me being embarrassed every time I try to use my I-phone 6.

I live with this every day, on this form too!

pc1


----------



## Pcinspector1

Has anyone actually calculated the potential inspection violations when installing a GAS water heater.

I will get a call "Do you require a permit on a water heater change out?"

YES. There's at a minimum of 10 things I'm looking for and we don't even require the seismic strap here.

pc1


----------



## ICE

Service entrance conduit.




Grounding electrode conductor,


----------



## steveray

I missed the answer on the insulation one I guess...Installed and existing circa 1985 when these were built...


----------



## fireguy

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> Quote: What will keep the insulation in place? IECC 303.1.2 R-value mark should be readily observable upon inspection. IECC 303.2 materials to be installed by the manufacture's instructions or IBC
> 
> I used Kraft faced insulation with the R-value marked on the paper side and stapled the side flap to the FJ.
> 
> There use to be some wires, about a No. 9 gauge that was used to hold un-faced insulation in place, try finding those at the box store.
> 
> Use strappin!


We have an annual sprinkler inspection next week.   A couple of weeks ago, we did some sprinkler repair work in the building.  I noticed some insulation above the ceiling was not fitting inside the framing of the roof, and the foil covering was gone.  Also a piece of insulation batting was not secured. It is now obstructing the sprinkler head.    We are going to fix the insulation so our sprinkler pipes do not freeze, again.  Is the strapping code?  What size is to be used?  What thickness and what fasteners are to be used?  10 x 3/4 screws OK?


----------



## Pcinspector1

fireguy,

The strappin I was making reference too is the nylon strap material used to hold three bundles of insulation together and some times used to hold a pallet of boxes together.

A spool of light wire, (bailing wire), might do the trick if you Zig-Zag the wire and staple to the bottom of the FJ. If your in a crawl space try to find galvanized wire.

There is flat metal strapping used in wall bracing but that will cost you $$$

pc1


----------



## steveray

Simpson makes insulation support wires....http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/IS.asp?source=misccat#


----------



## Pcinspector1

fireguy,

In you scenario with the sprinkler heads I would think you would not use nylon strappin due to the melting issue and would use some type of metal to hold the insulation in place, just sayin!

As far as code, not aware of one requiring any of these to be used? Anyone else know where its at in the code??

pc1


----------



## Pcinspector1

Thanks steveray,

14ga. And no code listing with the Simpson wire supports.

pc1


----------



## steveray

No specific code or listing, just whatever holds the insulation in place, as long as you are not creating dual vapor barriers and meeting interior finish requirements (FS/SD)


----------



## ICE

steveray said:
			
		

> Simpson makes insulation support wires....http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/IS.asp?source=misccat#


I've encountered this material a few times.  After the floor is sheathed, too much of the insulation will be in the dirt.  The wind pressure from a sheet of plywood easily overcomes the metal stays. My preferred method is piano wire.  Spaced 6" from any obstruction and 12" on center elsewhere.


----------



## ICE

This job got too many corrections.


----------



## ICE

He's doing lawn care....




until business picks up.




I parked on the side of the road to empty my lunch pail.  This guy fires up a weed-eater.  So I see him and figure this shouldn't take long at all.

Just my luck, he's either Superman or an alien and he was still going when I left.

Years ago it was 6:00am with a serious hangover.  Both of us.  Her probably more than me.  So anyway, we lived on a steep Nevada City hill.  A kid started flying down that hill in a red wagon...at 6:00 am.  Dawn told me to go out there and stop him.  I knew who the kid was.  I didn't much like him...or his father....or the rest of the family.....or anybody they hung out with.  If ya know what I mean.

The noise from that wagon....in our alley....was something else.  Dawn was pi$$ed.  What I wanted to do was throw up out the bedroom window screaming at the little ***k....but I didn't.  I just told Dawn to relax and give it a minute.

After that morning she thought that there might be something wrong with me.  She darn near cried when it happened.

The kid was much improved...well he didn't have a wagon anymore so maybe that was it huh.

I miss Dawn but I couldn't handle the hangovers.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

steveray said:
			
		

> Simpson makes insulation support wires....http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/IS.asp?source=misccat#


FYI. Those suck.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

The 4" corrugated pipe is a yard drain.  It passes under the slab and is on the plans as ABS.  The Visqueen is two layers.  The contractor told me that Home Depot was out of 6mil so he bought one 3mil and one 4mil.  He did the math for me and pointed out that 3+4= 7 which is better than 6.  I guess sand was on short supply also.  So he placed 8" of what looks like road base.


----------



## ICE

It's a couple feet deep in places.  There is CSST out there....somewhere.  I asked them to expose the gas pipe for inspection.  I wonder if that big a$$ machine that blows it in can suck it out.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

This person did a service upgrade.  The first inspection resulted in six corrections.  He didn't do too bad....you know considering his obvious handicap.


----------



## ICE

I knew right away that this job would present a challenge.  The description on the building permit said replace 9 windows and two doors, drywall as needed.  The valuation is $16,000.00.









The framing is plumb.  The window frame is tight to the header and sill.  What happened here is that the opening isn't tall enough so they had to bend the window into a parallelogram.




They have a job card with no signatures.  They are adamant that the other inspector has been there several times and the original job card was lost.  It wasn't clear to me why I was there but they wanted to insulate.  They have rocked lids in several rooms.  The entire house has been gutted.  A complete rewire and new service.

Ain't it a beauty.


----------



## ICE

The former owner is a tweaker.


----------



## ICE

Hold on while I get my tape measure....this could be a little too close to the property line.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

That stucco actually got me laughing. You know, that surprise laugh snort. Awesome.

Can you even have that panel that close to the window? Well, not THAT panel of course.

I bet that place was loaded with tweaker shlt. They collect random garbage and just keep it around for that fantasy day at the flea market.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

The job is a furnace and A/C condenser.  They insisted that none of the duct was replaced and they reused the existing line set.  The furnace is in a closet but I wanted to see in the attic.  Well when I asked they said that they didn't bring a step ladder.  So one of the corrections was to provide attic access.   As it turns out, there isn't an access other than this.




Should I tell Flipper that he needs running boards?  I wonder how that translates into Spanish.


----------



## ICE

How could the same guy do both of these?  Most days he's found on a street corner at Home Depot....that's how.  This guy did a service upgrade and new HVAC.  He got 16 corrections the first time around and only four this time.  The owner saved a bundle.  The system will be safe and will work for a long time.  I don't mind writing all of those corrections.  What the Hell, I get paid to be there.

Multiply that by 100.  That's a realistic number of the same jobs that take place every day here in the concrete jungle.  Better than half of them lack a permit or inspection.  While they might not be all that safe or last as long, the owner did save a bundle.  Now isn't that really what matters?

Each time that I am involved with these jobs, the worker comes away from it with a bunch of knew knowledge.  Thousands of the street corner guys have been through one of my inspections.  In my career I have written somewhere close to a half million corrections.  If just 1% of those corrections stuck with the guy, that's 5000 mistakes that didn't happen.




Who am I kidding?  What I do is for naught.  I am a fly in the ointment.  One and all resent everything that I do.  None take it to heart.  That's okay with me....after all I do get paid to be there.


----------



## ICE

Something doesn't look right with that garage.




And I was right, those lath nails are way too far apart.


----------



## ICE

Engineer's ladder?


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> Engineer's ladder?


You hugged it didn't you ?

Brent.


----------



## ICE

The job: install new A/C coil and condenser. There is a condensate pump in the return air plenum.




That pump is plugged into a receptacle that has been pulled out of the wall.




And this was done by a licensed contractor.


----------



## fireguy

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> FYI. Those suck.Brent.


Now you tell me!  I just bought a box of those to hold up the insulation that fell when the sprinkler head froze and broke.  But the wire has got to be better than the baling twine I was going to use.


----------



## steveray

ICE said:
			
		

> The job is a furnace and A/C condenser.  They insisted that none of the duct was replaced and they reused the existing line set.  The furnace is in a closet but I wanted to see in the attic.  Well when I asked they said that they didn't bring a step ladder.  So one of the corrections was to provide attic access.   As it turns out, there isn't an access other than this.
> 
> 
> 
> Should I tell Flipper that he needs running boards?  I wonder how that translates into Spanish.


Did they caulk the joints on their T-111 or are they just in the middle of painting?...


----------



## Pcinspector1

"what lath nails?"

Is the queen bee home?

Wonder if they use that ladder with the built in bubble to determine a ramp slope before they pour?

pc1


----------



## Pcinspector1

I've seen those $40.00 boots before!

pc1


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> I've seen those $40.00 boots before!pc1


Gosh, if they're worth that much I better get out the polish.


----------



## ICE

When we go out there and don't mention the fact that you got a little carried away with the bootlegged patio cover we send a message that may not be appropriate.  But that's the way we are, especially with solar.  It's like, "get it on the roof no matter what".  If the building isn't on fire it qualifies for solar.


----------



## ICE

They filled these gas cans and drove out without securing them.  They're just sitting in the back and these two are hoping all goes well.  There's eight or ten of them.


----------



## ICE

Did you now that every section of rail is required to have two supports?  So far it doesn't matter who's racking it is because all that I have seen have that requirement.  You will find it in the manual at rail splicing.  It says that there shall be a minimum of two supports on each side of a splice.


----------



## jdfruit

ICE;

The cantilever looks a bit too long as well.

Fill me in on those rack rail connectors to (hopefully) structure below, waterproofing looks a bit dodgy.


----------



## Chad Pasquini

Ice don't leave us hanging, what happened with the gas cans


----------



## mmmarvel

ICE said:
			
		

> They filled these gas cans and drove out without securing them.  They're just sitting in the back and these two are hoping all goes well.  There's eight or ten of them.


What could possibilly go wrong???


----------



## ICE

I didn't recall seeing any elephants in this neighborhood....maybe that's why these guys were surprised when I told them to get the elephant shlt out of the street.


----------



## ICE

That house is worth at least $800K .. as is

At first glance the pipe looks like the Sun killed it.  Then I noticed the runs in the paint.  The shingles look like a can of paint exploded.


----------



## ICE

The superintendent asked me to write a correction on the drains.  Obviously they will create a puddle before the aqua gets in.  He thinks that they should be flush.







Here's my thinking.  These curb cuts allow the water to flow into a percolation area.  So if the drain is set flush the aqua will hit the street instead of the percolation area.

So I did write a correction. It said, "Set the parking lot drains to an elevation that works".  That should make everybody happy.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Is it a drain for the concrete, or a landscaping outlet?

If it's an outlet you want it higher, then it bubbles out and flows down the curb.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> Is it a drain for the concrete, or a landscaping outlet?If it's an outlet you want it higher, then it bubbles out and flows down the curb.
> 
> Brent.


I'll be finding out when the right person gets the correction notice.


----------



## Fort

That is called "low impact development" LID for short, funny business in CA.


----------



## Pcinspector1

FV,

Pretty interesting stairway pic's while you were on vacation in a third world somewhere I bet?

pc1


----------



## ICE

Telling them to rip it out and start over is a hard sell when it has lasted ten years.


----------



## Francis Vineyard

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> FV,Pretty interesting stairway pic's while you were on vacation in a third world somewhere I bet?
> 
> pc1


Some days it feels like we're on an island.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

The CSST had been in the wall in a straight line where the Dottie plates are located.  A previous inspector said Shirley that's not a good idea and they moved it.  The me. el. and pl. roughs had been signed off and they had written permission to insulate.  I was there to inspect the insulation.




The rafter span is 20'.  The header is a 2"x4" with support by whatever is between the windows at 36" on center.




I don't know what you guys require but I always ask them to rock the lid in the chimney chase.











The insulation looked okay.  I wrote 18 corrections.  The contractor didn't say one word about me writing corrections after the work has been approved.  He said Sir a lot.

The kicker here is that I broke the rule that says "Thou shalt not make us look bad".  I am supposed to approve the insulation and move on without even a whimper. That's right, you read this correctly.  I am not allowed to write corrections on top of other inspector's approvals.  I have been told this repeatedly.  It will not come back to bite me if another inspector's signature is on the permit.  I counter with the fact that my writing corrections is not what makes us look bad.  It merely points out the fact that we are bad.

This contractor may eventually complain because I asked him to get an engineer to bless the 2x4 headers and the glass shear transfer.  My name will go back to the top of the bad list....where it belongs.


----------



## mtlogcabin

> I don't know what you guys require but I always ask them to rock the lid in the chimney chase.


We do the same and also require an insulation collar to keep the insulation 1" away from the vent.


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> We do the same and also require an insulation collar to keep the insulation 1" away from the vent.


I see evidence of the collar in the last picture.  They're going to need two.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

You're doing the Lords work.

Except I'm an atheist.

Maybe you're doing Lourde's work.

Either way, welcome to the Circle of A55holes.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

They thought that I was gonna climb that.  I told them that I didn't want to disappoint Brent so I'll have to decline.


----------



## ICE

I am curious about what happened here.....but not so much that I was willing to touch anything.  I asked for a permit so somebody else will have to open it up for inspection.




It might be anodized aluminum...who knows....but it's definitely not rubber.  It's a Flipper so Shirley anything is possible.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> They thought that I was gonna climb that.  I told them that I didn't want to disappoint Brent so I'll have to decline.


I think they're just effing with you now.

Brent


----------



## MtnArch

ICE said:
			
		

> They thought that I was gonna climb that.  I told them that I didn't want to disappoint Brent so I'll have to decline.


9-person toboggan?


----------



## ICE

> 9-person toboggan?


fatboy and eight regular size people.

It's a ramp that they use between the house and detached garages.....and a good example of why roofers pay high workers comp premiums.  Roofers are the only contractors that are required to maintain a workman's comp insurance policy whether they have employees or not.  How that makes sense escapes me.


----------



## ICE

Shirley this may not be a good idea.




There's always something off in the distance.


----------



## ICE

Please read this and pay attention to what I have written.

http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16148


----------



## ICE

We should get a clue and stop issuing service upgrade permits to anyone that also does solar installations.







Do you ask for flashing under the nail flange?




They know that I'm a stickler for top plate straps.  They just don't understand why.


----------



## JCraver

A licensed plumber did this


----------



## Pcinspector1

Another use for a drywall bucket!

Missing purple primer to boot!

New green code?

pc1


----------



## Chad Pasquini

So there is a hole in the bottom of the bucket that drains to a floor drain?


----------



## Mech

I think the bucket is an indirect waste receptor whose drain to the ejector pump is clogged.  Also, the required air gap is missing.


----------



## ICE

Today's c-crimps.




One of the wires slid out easy like corn through a duck.


----------



## ICE

The code enforcement dept. Ordered that three windows be removed from an illegally enclosed patio cover.  They complied.  They even cased out the openings.




It is actually a patio cover with a patio cover.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

The gas pipe is a foot deep.  The contractor upon hearing that 18" is required said, "No problem, we will be raising the dirt six inches anyway".  I said, "No problem, just make sure you include the dirt under the foundation".




Notice that the gas pipe is separated from the water pipe by a shelf.  They thought that a 12" separation in elevation is required and that's why the gas pipe is shallow.  They also used black iron for the riser.

Ultimately it will all be for naught because it is supposed to supply a laundry in the garage.  They don't have a permit for that and the garage is too small to allow a laundry.  I did suggest that they place a conduit just in case that phantom laundry needs electricity.  I think the plan was to drain the clothes washer on the lawn in the back yard.  Gray water systems are legal here and no permit is required.


----------



## ICE

It's a solar company.  I wish I knew what it was that I said that caused them to do this.  The housewife was so wound up I bet they had to tie her up while they were installing it.  I waited until I was in my truck and then called her on the phone.  When she heard that a smoke detector isn't required on the front door I could see the windows bulging out.




This was failure to communicate.  The company is run by a pair of Ukrainian immigrants.  All of the workers are Hispanic.  They have a crazy guy installing the detectors.  And then they ran into me and somehow there is a smoke detector on the front door.  Oh was that lady angry.  I don't care who you are, I wouldn't eat anything in that house for a month....dogs included.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Maybe they just figured there wasn't quite enough crap on the front door.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

I know what I said that caused them to do this.




I say it every time.  This is the first time that it turned out like this.




The lady that lives there asked me if this is right.  She wondered why she's never seen anything like this.  I couldn't help it and started laughing.


----------



## ICE

The pool contractor placed the equipment blocking the A/C fused disconnect.  You talk about misplaced....you would never figure this back yard was ripe for a pool.




He got the correction slip and called me up....all clueless.  It took a while to get through to him.  That's because he hired a licensed electrical contractor to wire the equipment. Well I can tell that he almost understood me.  Another ten minute session on the phone should do it.


----------



## Wayne

How does the condenser draw air with the pool filter that close?


----------



## ICE

That's the best part of the story.  It is shot.  Hasn't worked in years.  But there is power to the disconnect.  Installation instructions allow one side to be almost smothered.  Since the filter is round there isn't that much of it that is too close....if it worked at all.  How's that for splitting hairs.

But you are correct.  If they ever replace the condenser they might set it right.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE,

Adding to my list, "a Bad Inspector!"

9) Refuses to explain why.

10) Uses his authority with a heavy hand.

11) "Never laughs at a lady that has had V-flashing installed on her roof!"

Adding to my list, "Good Inspectors!"

12) Be like ICE!

pc1


----------



## fireguy

ICE said:
			
		

> I know what I said that caused them to do this.
> 
> 
> 
> I say it every time.  This is the first time that it turned out like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The lady that lives there asked me if this is right.  She wondered why she's never seen anything like this.  I couldn't help it and started laughing.


We see those at higher elevations.  It is a snow splitter, so the snow does not fall on the A/C unit.   Apparantly the roof was designed for higher elevations.


----------



## tmurray

fireguy said:
			
		

> We see those at higher elevations.  It is a snow splitter, so the snow does not fall on the A/C unit.   Apparantly the roof was designed for higher elevations.


..and colder...much, much colder...


----------



## steveray

ICE...What do you say that made them do that?


----------



## ICE

steveray said:
			
		

> ICE...What do you say that made them do that?


I ask for a rain diverter on the roof over the condenser.  For many years that was found in installation instructions.  The reason is to keep stuff from the roof washing off the roof and into the top of the condenser.  I haven't found that in the installation instructions for about the last five years.  It was a good idea then so why wouldn't it be a good idea now?


----------



## ICE

At the first inspection the perforated drain pipe stopped short by about 12'.....is 3" and the plans call for 4", does not daylight.




Today the pipe was buried by the stone.  There was a shovel so I dug up the pipe to see if it was 4".  It is...... 4" round x 16" long.







This had nothing to do with anything that I said but everything to do with a conference the contractor had with the office manager.  It seems that he was told to slope the pipe towards the weep holes that are at 32" on center.  I am leaving for two weeks vacation in the morning so how this will play out is anybody's guess.  I just left a correction to glue the segments together......or if he's a thinker he might stay away from my office manager, get new 4" perforated pipe and daylight it.


----------



## Wayne

The Grace product isn't installed correctly either.  I've inspected miles of it in my day.


----------



## steveray

ICE said:
			
		

> I ask for a rain diverter on the roof over the condenser.  For many years that was found in installation instructions.  The reason is to keep stuff from the roof washing off the roof and into the top of the condenser.  I haven't found that in the installation instructions for about the last five years.  It was a good idea then so why wouldn't it be a good idea now?


They realized they can sell more equipment if it fails?....


----------



## steveray

That is just like how the used to install the short clay pipe segments here years ago....I have not dug up one that was not packed solid...


----------



## ICE

Wayne said:
			
		

> The Grace product isn't installed correctly either.  I've inspected miles of it in my day.


Please tell me what is wrong with it.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Not primed for one thing. Should be run down under the gravel, and sealed around the inlets. Whoever put it on was a wrinkle monkey, and it's also a good idea to use silt filter. But that's just me.

Probably more.

Brent.


----------



## Wayne

An average day

Brent hit most of mine but I'll add sealed with liquid membrane at the edges and ends and greater overlap at the seams.  Grace has a really good pdf install book online for free.


----------



## Wayne

I forgot to add that protection board or hydroduct is required between it and anything else.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Wayne said:
			
		

> I forgot to add that protection board or hydroduct is required between it and anything else.


Thanks. I forgot what it was called. The landscaping fabric does not qualify.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

Thanks gentlemen.  As I recall, plans call for "waterproofing" occasionally but not always.  I'm away on vacation so I can't say what this one called out.  I'll look for the Grace PDF.


----------



## Wayne

Re: An average day



			
				ICE said:
			
		

> Thanks gentlemen.  As I recall, plans call for "waterproofing" occasionally but not always.  I'm away on vacation so I can't say what this on called out.  I'll look for the Grace PDF.


 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=ze7gVN_AK8TGsQTS1IGIDA&url=https://grace.com/construction/en-us/Documents/13GR_059%2520Bituthene%2520HB%2520Web.pdf&ved=0CB8QFjAA&usg=AFQjCNED0kuDXNuLT4xMGbah83PUGJvulA&sig2=_EKxyD1HTt4fiMryCTVhPA

Hopefully this works.


----------



## ICE

Wayne said:
			
		

> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=ze7gVN_AK8TGsQTS1IGIDA&url=https://grace.com/construction/en-us/Documents/13GR_059%2520Bituthene%2520HB%2520Web.pdf&ved=0CB8QFjAA&usg=AFQjCNED0kuDXNuLT4xMGbah83PUGJvulA&sig2=_EKxyD1HTt4fiMryCTVhPA Hopefully this works.


No luck trying to use the link.


----------



## Wayne

You can find it via Google search with these terms

grace bituthene installation instructions


----------



## ICE

I did find the installation instructions.  I'm thinking that a deputy inspector is a good idea. 

The crews around here stop reading at "Sticky side in"


----------



## MASSDRIVER

An average day







Weatherproof. Not direct burial.

Brent.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MASSDRIVER

An average day






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ICE

Four separate head tests.  For a toilet, shower and two lavs.




Now if they can get it a foot underground it might turn out okay.


----------



## ICE

The panel on the right is the original GE ?amp.  It apparently had a bunch of breakers with no main disconnect.  A solar contractor has installed the panel on the left.  It is fed by the 50 amp in the original panel.  The solar contribution from an inverter passes through the new panel and lands on the 20 amp breakers in the old panel.




I have no clue as to the rating of this bus.  The backfed breaker is right next to the point of connection from the utility.


----------



## jdfruit

starting with 1975 NEC, min 100A for service equipment on new single family homes. Double check the meter feed bar (insulated) to buss bars; looks like the connector machine screw is missing the head.


----------



## ICE

It is a bootlegged 400 square foot bedroom addition with a full bath.  Flipper requested a foundation inspection.  He also exposed framing because....well that's what my office told him to do.




We forgot to tell him to disconnect the wiring.  Of course he swore that it is dead.....and other than 120 volts it is..dead or is it deadly?




And that foundation?  He was relieved to discover that there is one....or at least half of one.  Okay so maybe there isn't any steel....who knows?  He offered to cut it open and take a closer look.  He did that without any prompting from me.  He was trying his best to demonstrate how cooperative he is.




Then a good thing happened.  Flipper asked me for my opinion of what he should do.


----------



## ICE

It's solar.  Need I say more?  The knucklehead got testy.  Wants a code section.







Today was the fourth time that inspection was requested and nothing has changed.  I got a little testy and want a re-inspection fee.


----------



## jdfruit

You want code sections? give me your code book & C10 contractor's ID pocket card. OH, you don't have either, well when you do, let's talk. (paraphrasing someone else's snarky post on another thread)


----------



## ICE

jdfruit said:
			
		

> starting with 1975 NEC, min 100A for service equipment on new single family homes. Double check the meter feed bar (insulated) to buss bars; looks like the connector machine screw is missing the head.


You might be right but it looks sorta like a rivet.  The one on the right is barely visible and looks like it is the same diameter.  I asked them to start over with a service upgrade.  They complain a lot so I'll probably have to return before they do the work.  If so I'll get a better picture.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Do you have a pic of a properly crimped connection?

Brent.


----------



## jdfruit

Brent, WTF? look at where ICE works and the general disquality of his so called contractors. Well maybe he does, what say ICE?


----------



## ICE

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> Do you have a pic of a properly crimped connection?Brent.


It is possible.  I'll look for one.  There's about a bunch of wrong crimps on this job and at some point they will be done correctly...I can get a picture of that.


----------



## ICE

These are pay stations for a tunnel car-wash.  Initially there were no bollards.  I was with the owner and the contractor for the car-wash equipment.  The plans show an island with nothing on it.  I asked the contractor if he forgot bollards and he said that bollards are an option.  A few months ago I asked for a plan that showed the pay stations.  Everybody, including my office manager said that it wasn't necessary.  Why put them through the expense was what I heard.

Each pay station cost $70,000.00....that's just for the blue box....no concrete or labor.   I asked the contractor what he showed the owner as part of the sales pitch.  Is there a picture of a pretty girl standing next to the blue box.....with bollards?  I told him to exercise the option.

So here they are coring the concrete to install bollards.  These are bollards that I can't require because there is no code that would back me up.  And there is no plan showing bollards.






I guess they figure on being busy 'cause they bought two pay stations.  I also figure that they don't drive cars 'cause they bought two bollards.




Here's something I always ask for.  Years ago I opened one of these vaults and found it full of water.  It was at a cemetery.

This is how I found this one.




This is how it looks now.  The empty conduits are spares.




There's only one circuit at 120 volts and the rest is low voltage control wiring.


----------



## ICE

"Mommy, why does it smell funny in my bedroom?"  "Mommy, I think Billy has been pooping in his closet again."  Oh Billy, they're gonna remember that for a lifetime. If you hated those shoes that much, you should have said something.


----------



## ICE

The contractor left me a ladder.  Somewhere on that roof there is a condenser needing inspection.


----------



## Pcinspector1

"Condenser needing inspected"? Maybe the contractors next door, getting a massage? 

pc1


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> "Condenser needing inspected"? Maybe the contractors next door, getting a massage?  I didn't run into him.


----------



## ICE

There was a note on my desk this morning from a contractor wanting to know if they could stucco around a service upgrade.  I hadn't done an inspection yet so the answer would be no.  Around 8:30 a woman called wanting a time that I would get to the inspection because her plaster guy is standing by to finish the job.  I told her that I would be there between 10:00 and 1:00.  She didn't like that.  She said that she had him there at 6:30 am to install the lath and he can't wait all day to plaster.  I told her that the lath would have to come off for inspection.  She liked that even less.

Ten minutes later a man called and said I was off base because he called my office yesterday and was told that it would be okay to lath before inspection.  I said, "No you didn't"  He says that his work always passes inspection and he has never had to get it inspected prior to lath.  I said, "Sir, I apologize for the inconvenience but the lath must be removed".  I went so far as offering to cancel the inspection in case he needed more time to think about it.

Five minutes later the lather called.  He just wanted me to know that I am ridiculous.




This is from the old service and doesn't reach the new panel.  What do you bet that they will try to fool me.  So they will wrap around the house to get here.




It is hard to tell from the picture but the service entrance conduit has no hub.  I think that it is just stuck through a KO.




Of course the job is a solar project.


----------



## ICE

Another solar contractor doing a service upgrade.  This is one I have never seen before.




Here's the other end of the conduit.




As luck would have it, they did another thing that I have never encountered.  The white and red wires pass in front of the bus through an area normally occupied by breakers.

I didn't know if this is a violation so I wrote a correction saying that you can't do that.  It won't matter much as these people always get plenty of corrections.




For the uninitiated I will point out that the two green wires in one terminal is not legal.  The lug is not listed for two wires and if it were, the wires must be the same gauge.

Quite often there are a multitude of violations shown in these pictures and it is a concern that people might see this as okay other than what I have mentioned.


----------



## ICE

I wonder if anyone has made it all the way through this thread.


----------



## TheCommish

i have been following it from the beginning, Ii fiend  it interesting, being form the east coast, w you do a lot differently  on the the west coast starting wiht combined inspectors


----------



## steveray

As have I, and it just keeps getting awesomer...and sadder at the same time ironically...


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Not only to the end, but the future as well. Wait till you guys see the elect panel next Wednesday.

Brent.


----------



## Pcinspector1

post #1341, looks like the wall cavity is open to the attic lacking a fire stop.

third pic, that's a good catch, you have to stand on your tippy-toes to see that one, no hubby!

fourth pic, have't seen that one, looks like dog crap!, that contractor's cousin will most likely will be in my neck of the woods soon with the gooberments solar initiative.

sixth pic, I've seen that were hardly any breakers were installed prior to rough-in inspection but have't seen that before, saved dollar I bet in materials by cutting across the breaker area.

#1343, when I got bored one day, I look through all the threads,

NOT!

pc1


----------



## Darren Emery

Have followed this one from the beginning, and subscribed early on.  I don't miss a single post.  Keep 'em coming, ICE!


----------



## steveray

ICE, I sent the LB to meter transition picture to a great electrical guy here and he thought there was no way that could be real....I told him about all of the stuff you post and that it is just par for the course...


----------



## ICE

P



			
				Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> post #1341, looks like the wall cavity is open to the attic lacking a fire stop


Wouldn't you know, I didn't write that correction when I was there.  I saw it in the picture and had to call the contractor.  Thankfully they had gone for the day and I left a message.  They have another request in for today.


----------



## JPohling

I always start my morning with this thread...................the day cant help but get better from there.


----------



## JBI

I only check it occasionally myself, but always good for a chuckle. Far and away the longest continually updated thread on the board (possibly in the world?). LOL


----------



## Wayne

An average day

I read it every time you update it but unfortunately I'm not that electrical savy so I'm left guessing most of the time on the code issues.  I'm trying and learning.


----------



## jdfruit

I joined the site just last month. When I found this thread I really enjoyed it, reminded me of my days in the field dealing with dipstick people trying to build things, made me feel better about the effort I put in those years ago. Once into it, I went to the beginning, spent most of one evening browsing the whole thread. I will post to the thread once in a while when I get something good enough to compete. ICE, thanks for all your effort, keep it coming.


----------



## ICE

The job is PV on the roof and a service upgrade done by a B license contractor.  One of the worst I've come across.  What would you suppose caused the wire to be twisted like a pig's tail?


----------



## ICE

On this job, I was filling in for another inspector.  The inspection request was for drywall and lath.  The bedroom windows open 21" high.  There is a 3.5" plastic stop at the top that can be removed which will allow the window to open 24".  Flipper was there and he removed the blocks and shoved the window wide open.




Then there was a load sound and this metal didn't retract with the window.




There's a piece of vinyl stuck on the end.

Here's the thing with that block.  When it is taken out the window will open further but it will not stay open that far unless you hold it open.  If you are trying to crawl out of the window you're not going to hold it open.  You will have 21" no matter what.


----------



## ICE

This one started a few posts back.




The electrician called me this morning and asked for a detailed explanation of what he needed to do for each correction.  He was polite and attentive.  Thirty minutes later, his boss called.  He asked me what they had done to me that caused me to attack his company.  No kidding he said "attack".  In all the years that he's been an electrical contractor he has never been given any of the corrections that I wrote.  Not even one.  Then he tells me that I must go there late today and approve the work so that they can lath and stucco before the rain hits this weekend.

This is what I found.  It is sort of an improvement and sorta not.




So I hung in there with the kid until he got it looking like this.  It's really not what I would have done but there was no going back with what he had done already.


----------



## ICE

There was this clamp at the water pipe that I said didn't reach the panel.  I was wrong and it did reach the panel.




So the kid put a new clamp on the pipe..........................................................................and then he took it off.




Here he is sanding the paint off of the pipe.  He tried scraping it with a pocket knife and the owner offered him some sandpaper.  It's like he has never done that before.




Sometimes I have to take over and supervise the work.


----------



## ICE

They said that the plan is to move the service to the back wall as soon as it is erected.  That makes sense.  The problem I have with that plan is experience.  I have allowed such a plan several times in the past and found that the addition was framed up with the drop stuck through the roof sheathing.  There have been other jacked up messes where they did move the service.  I can't openly condone moving the service anyway.  If I said okay and somebody got hurt, I would be on the hook.  Not to mention that it would bother me a great deal.

So quit asking and get a temporary power pole.  I know you get raped by Edison but that's not my doing.

Another shock to the wallet is that most of the existing dwelling circuits will require ARC fault protection.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Post #1355, I guess the pig-tail wiring came from MC cable? other than that I have never seen that before!

Was the bonding wire installed too short, why did they need that crimp?

Post #1357, pic #3, a little dab will do ya!, "there, the draft has been stopped?"

pc1


----------



## TheCommish

So just before I went to the great concrete jungle for vacation, I was out for a scheduled solar array final. There was no answer at the accessible door and the permit was snug behind the snow and glass. I missed you tag left and on my way. By the time I got back to the office the owner had called, they had stepped out for a bit, can I come back, well has the electric inspection been done, oh no. Call the contractor and leave a message, get the electrical inspection done then reschedule, then maybe we will give you the signed interconnect agreement.Ice the white stuff is snow.

View attachment 1143


View attachment 1143


/monthly_2015_03/WP_000394.jpg.259a07b4dde4f7e30b2b54d03f9274bc.jpg


----------



## TheCommish

Foundation inspection in the on the east coast, getting better at least this time the foundation is started, last time just the footings were in and they were unloading the forms, just one more side now and we will have something to inspect. also anther $50.00 re-inspection fee.

View attachment 1144


View attachment 1144


/monthly_2015_03/WP_000242.jpg.7be7ae1e68f81949785f4a822c1dfdf5.jpg


----------



## steveray

TheCommish said:
			
		

> So just before I went to the great concrete jungle for vacation, I was out for a scheduled solar array final. There was no answer at the accessible door and the permit was snug behind the snow and glass. I missed you tag left and on my way. By the time I got back to the office the owner had called, they had stepped out for a bit, can I come back, well has the electric inspection been done, oh no. Call the contractor and leave a message, get the electrical inspection done then reschedule, then maybe we will give you the signed interconnect agreement.Ice the white stuff is snow.
> 
> View attachment 2544


So much for the required egress door...


----------



## TheCommish

steveray said:
			
		

> So much for the required egress door...


there is so much snow around here  I would guess %50 of the front walks are not shoveled, not a problem  if you don't have a storm door. Here in Massachusetts we require 2 egress doors, the second can be 32 inch clear and sliding. The trade off is the EERO from a bedroom with a double hung windows  are allowed to be 3.3 square feet


----------



## steveray

Needs a plumber.....I didn't get pictures, but the other day I finally went to a job where I said "the plumber needs to meet me here with his license" for the first time...Flip house and the flipper pulled the permits but cannot "legally or in reality" do the work


----------



## ICE

The first lug on the left is an Ilsco as it comes from the factory.  It is a GBL-4DBT and is listed UL 2703.   The installer didn't like the bolt that came with the lug so they drilled the hole large enough for a 1/4" bolt.  Next, they replaced the set screw with a bolt.  The threads are different so the bolt cut new threads as it was forced in.

Here is how it turned out.  Notice that the lug is mounted over a channel.  That was done in an effort to keep the lug as low as possible for holding the copper wire away from the aluminum.  There's not more than 30 done this way.




The crew was four men.  They have a big company van.  They have been installing solar systems for quite a long time.  They didn't know anything about a WEEB ban.  They didn't know anything about keeping the copper away from aluminum.  We gave them a cut sheet that shows how to install Ilsco lugs....and they did this.


----------



## TheCommish

please help me understand these directions

View attachment 1150


View attachment 1150


/monthly_2015_03/WP_000487.jpg.4b60249e83d88a4fc76076fa2c8d3405.jpg


----------



## ICE

"But we didn't do that".  I heard you the first time.  I didn't say that you did it.  What I said was, "This needs to be fixed".




Just Like I didn't say that the tear-off crew threw away the rest of this.  What I did say was, "This needs to be fixed".


----------



## jar546

Always entertaining


----------



## Pcinspector1

That was existing, We did'nt bid that?


----------



## ICE

This thing sitting on the plenum.  It rocks around easily.  Look at the flashing.  And I had to explain why it's wrong.  He also did a re-roof yet he didn't get what was wrong with the flashing.

He is a general contractor that does it all.  He is equally poor in all of the trades.


----------



## ICE

This was done by a genuine mechanical contractor.




I guess that he never got to play in the dirt when he was a kid.  There were a few kids like that as I was growing up.  Their mothers were worried about germs.


----------



## ICE

Well that took care of that problem.


----------



## ICE

This is a service drop that was rubbing the corner of a patio cover roof.  It it energized.


----------



## steveray

We don't get too many residential RTU's....On commercial jobs I always grill the designer on the connection to the curb....They usually start with "What do you mean?"


----------



## ICE

This insulation came from an illegal addition that was torn down.  That addition was from the 90's.  Now a new addition has been built and they want to use the insulation again.  It hasn't been wet.  Would you allow them to reuse the insulation?


----------



## ICE

The C-Tap is allowed to have two wires....and no more than two.  The splice block terminal is allowed to have one wire and no more than one.  The C-Tap violation is moot in this case.

The fact that the wires were stripped and a C-Tap is installed points out that when inspecting solar one should expect the unexpected.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:
			
		

> This insulation came from an illegal addition that was torn down.  That addition was from the 90's.  Now a new addition has been built and they want to use the insulation again.  It hasn't been wet.  Would you allow them to reuse the insulation?


To start with it doesn't look like it's thick enough to be compliant with today's insulation standards.  If it does meet current code I don't see any way that you can actually deny him the ability to use it.  I just make sure that each piece had markings that show the R-value of it.  If it isn't marked it can't be used!


----------



## ICE

Msradell said:
			
		

> I don't see any way that you can actually deny him the ability to use it.


To be honest, I couldn't think of a reason either.....so I didn't offer one.....and he didn't ask for one.

It's just musty and smashed...looks a little moldy and smells....reason enough for me.


----------



## ICE

It's not upside down so it's not 100% wrong.


----------



## tmurray

ICE said:
			
		

> This insulation came from an illegal addition that was torn down.  That addition was from the 90's.  Now a new addition has been built and they want to use the insulation again.  It hasn't been wet.  Would you allow them to reuse the insulation?


Sure they can...provided they can prove it is tested to the correct standards in the building code.


----------



## ICE

The carpenter, being smarter than the designer, realized that shooting a short block won't work.  So he glued it instead.




This vent is inside out and is not for use with stucco.




But hold on....we can make it worse.


----------



## ICE

Installing hangers is not such a big deal.....providing an air gap isn't going to be easy.  Well at least it only happened four times.

Make that three times.



Notice the blocking.  There are four rows of blocks and they missed the girders.


----------



## steveray

Around here we tell them with short posts to lay them down (maybe 2' long) and rip them to the right size or they will be standing toothpicks in short order....


----------



## ICE

This is after I explained, with drawings, how to install a window.  Several times on different days.




There's about 900 sqft of addition and they called for insulation inspection.  That one piece of insulation with the face showing is the only piece of insulation with the face showing.  It's near the door and as soon as I saw it I said, "Well the insulation is inside out."  He said, "Give me a second and I'll have Martin switch it."


----------



## mtlogcabin

> "Well the insulation is inside out."


Depends on the climate zone you are in. CA is a 3 or Marine 4.

Typically the vapor barrier (Kraft Faced) is in stalled on the "warm" side of the wall which is the inside in the upper climate zones.

However I don't know if it really matters according to this link

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/building-science/should-paper-facing-batt-insulation-face-inside-or-outside

R702.7 Vapor retarders.

Class I or II vapor retarders are required on the interior side of frame walls in Climate Zones 5, 6, 7, 8 and Marine 4.


----------



## tmurray

ICE said:
			
		

>


This might be the worst insulation install job I've ever seen.


----------



## jdfruit

ICE is in the desert, CA climate zone 14 & 16 per CA energy code map/zones. Per CA amended R702.7 that uses the CA defined climate zones, vapor barrier goes to inside.


----------



## mtlogcabin

> ICE is in the desert,


That explains why he never post a picture of a cloudy day or mud in the bottom of a footing


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Depends on the climate zone you are in. CA is a 3 or Marine 4.Typically the vapor barrier (Kraft Faced) is in stalled on the "warm" side of the wall which is the inside in the upper climate zones.
> 
> However I don't know if it really matters according to this link
> 
> http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/building-science/should-paper-facing-batt-insulation-face-inside-or-outside
> 
> R702.7 Vapor retarders.
> 
> Class I or II vapor retarders are required on the interior side of frame walls in Climate Zones 5, 6, 7, 8 and Marine 4.


I'm in zone 9....  It just looks like zone Twilight.


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> That explains why he never post a picture of a cloudy day or mud in the bottom of a footing


I spend those days at the beach.


----------



## Pcinspector1

IBC and IRC 104.9.1 would allow the AHJ the right to permit the reuse of that insulation.

IMHO it would NOT be allowed if it has been WET and if it does'nt meet a newer IEEC code that has been adopted for proper thickness required.

Might want to find the proper owner of the insulation before its reused, call in ICE-T to investigate!

pc1


----------



## ICE

Did I hit a nerve?


----------



## ICE

Helluva place for a window.  Tempered or not it has got to go.  I could show you scars from tempered glass.


----------



## steveray

I couldn't enforce that one....I would agree that it is a bad idea....


----------



## Pcinspector1

Considered hazardous location, IRC20012, R308.4.6, Glazing adjacent stairs and ramps, unless a guardrail is installed. Check stair riser heights, are they maximum 7-3/4"?

A stair is listed as a walking surface in this section.

pc1


----------



## fw.

"I can show you scars from tempered glass."

Can you show me a code section too?


----------



## jdfruit

This is what ICE is trying to enforce:

R30S.4.6 Glazing adjacent stairs and ramps. Glazing

where the bottom exposed edge of the glazing is less than

36 inches (914 mm) above the plane of the adjacent walking

surface of stairways, landings between flights of stairs

and ramps shall be considered a hazardous location.

Exceptions:

1. When a rail is installed on the accessible side(s)

of the glazing 34 to 38 inches (864 to 965 mm)

above the walking surface. The rail shall be capable

of withstanding a horizontal load of 50

pounds per linear foot (730 N/m) without contacting

the glass and be a minimum of 11/2 inches

(38 mm) in cross sectional height.

2. Glazing 36 inches (914 mm) or more measured

horizontally from the walking surface .


----------



## fw.

I understand that it's a hazardous location; my question is why he won't allow tempered glass?

SECTION R308

GLAZING

R308.1 Identification. Except as indicated in Section

R308.1.1 each pane of glazing installed in hazardous locations

as defined in Section R308.4 shall be provided with a

manufacturer’s designation specifying who applied the designation,

designating the type of glass and the safety glazing

standard with which it complies, which is visible in the final

installation. The designation shall be acid etched, sandblasted,

ceramic-fired, laser etched, embossed, or be of a type

which once applied cannot be removed without being

destroyed. A label shall be permitted in lieu of the manufacturer’s

designation.

Exceptions:

1. For other than tempered glass, manufacturer’s designations

are not required provided the building official

approves the use of a certificate, affidavit or

other evidence confirming compliance with this

code.

2. Tempered spandrel glass is permitted to be identified

by the manufacturer with a removable paper

designation


----------



## ICE

fw. said:
			
		

> I understand that it's a hazardous location; my question is why he won't allow tempered glass?


When the window is broken the glass will shatter into small pieces.  Most of it will fall out of the frame.  The perimeter gasket will hold a rim of jagged glass.  So I can envision an arm or leg stuck through the window frame and being cut by that ring of tempered glass that didn't fall out of the frame.

Well you say, "That is always the case".....  And you are correct and yet I allow tempered glazing in most locations.  In fact all locations up until now.  This just looks like a horrible accident waiting to happen.

Not everything is addressed by a code.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

An average day

No comprende




Brent

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## georgia plans exam

Ice said "Tempered or not it has got to go." and "Not everything is addressed by a code." The location of the window is addressed by code and tempered glazing is allowed. Sorry Ice but, I have to disagree with you here.    GPE


----------



## ICE

georgia plans exam said:
			
		

> Ice said "Tempered or not it has got to go." and "Not everything is addressed by a code." The location of the window is addressed by code and tempered glazing is allowed. Sorry Ice but, I have to disagree with you here.    GPE


I'm okay with that.  Really I am.  I go outside the code now and then.  I realize that by the strict letter of the law I could be overturned with no argument.   However, sometimes there are circumstances that beg for intervention.  Stuff like this window makes my skin crawl.  Beyond that, it looks so stupid that they are not questioning that correction.....nor are they asking about the other 27 corrections.

This window is at a job that I posted earlier.  They have 950 sq. ft of addition that they roofed and insulated without rough inspections first.  The engineer did a structural observation and they figured that if an engineer is good with it, a mere inspector can't be saying anything about it.  The engineers report said as much.  When I then told them to remove the roofing and insulation for inspection they went to the top elected official and pitched a bitch.  Well I was on the carpet and had to convince the official that a mere inspector can trump an engineer.

They did remove the roofing and insulation.  It took me one hour and thirty four minutes to come, write and go.  One of their complaints was that I wasn't helpful.  This job is a raised foundation and that work generated a bunch of corrections too.  This time I explained every last detail of every correction.




The roof to wall transition came in a bucket.  Same for the boots for the plumbing vents.




Somehow I don't think that moving that window is such a big deal for them.

A year ago this owner, did I mention that the owner took out the permits and hired his brother who is a contractor to oversee the work.  Yes the brother sets up mobile homes.  Is that a legitimate contractor classification?

Where was I?  Oh ya the owner, last year he had solar installed on the roof.  He had just completed a bootleg service upgrade.  There was a Type 1R panel outside for the service and the solar contractor landed his solar right there without batting an eye.  Okay, Okay, so it's a 1R that was so completely effed up that I wouldn't let him and his brother touch it.  The solar company tossed in the towel and had to be replaced with an outfit that has tools.

Now these same neophytes are tackling a two story addition.  I end up in trouble because they went to see some guy that's on TV once a month.  When I think about that I get an itch to make them move the stairs instead of the window.


----------



## jdfruit

for pic in post #1405:

1. Line & load conductors scrambled

2. 2 black cables going out of fuse disconnect box through bottom hole, red/black through the back of the box; need color match on conductors.

3. "Smurf tube" ring out box back does not close the knockout opening around the cable and does not clamp the cable to the box.

4. Lock ring on bottom conduit not seated to box.

5. Neutral (white) cut off end not capped.

6. 4 wire cable in with 3 wire circuit out; if power in (line) originates in subpanel, then 4 wire out required unless the appliance has zero 115v use (need verified by product info)

7. Fuse disconnect may need neutral bar isolated from case if power in cable originates from subpanel.

8. May be others, can't see the fuse rating and fuse types for match to wire size and load.


----------



## ICE

Flipper owns this one.  The scope of work was a kitchen remodel and new light fixtures, switches and receptacles.  At a previous inspection I explained the arc fault requirements.  Today they called for a final inspection.

This a a panel that was installed because as you will see, the other panel was too full and the other other panel was too old.  The breakers are energized but when I tripped them nothing inside the building went dead.  They are labeled bedroom lights and receptacles but apparently have no effect on anything inside and I tried all of it.




Here it is with two of the other panels.  All of it is energized.And this isn't all of it as there is another panel at the meter.




Here we are at the meter.




The wire with the missing insulation is fed from a 50 amp breaker.




The contractor wanted me to write up all of the violations so that he could present the list to Flipper and get more work.  I told him that I'm not near good enough to spot all of the violations....so they are going to have to start from scratch.


----------



## ICE

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> No comprende
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brent
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The code requires that anyplace that 220 volt power is taken, a neutral must be brought along in case 120 volt power is desired in the future.  At least that could be what happened here.  Don't quote me on the rule because it might not exist.  We don't enforce it if it does exist.

Then again it might just be a cable that had a white wire to go with the black and red.  Seems more likely than providing a neutral on purpose.

Either way it should be capped with a wire nut, folded over and taped.  It could have been a little longer too.

Somebody that knows the code should be along anytime now and tell you the rest of the story.

Oh and Brent, you are so spot on about electricians.  I went on an electricians forum a few days ago.  It's gonna take weeks to get rid of the nasty taste.  Gosh what prima-donnas they are....almost delicate.


----------



## ICE

This was a service upgrade mounted over a hole in the wall with the conductors brought through the back.  Well I wrote a correction about that so he did this.




The guy doing the work called me before he did this.  He tried to talk me outa the correction.  It seems that he is the neighborhood handyman.  A jack of all trades.  I thought that I explained in sufficient detail but evidently I fell short.

For a brief moment I felt a tinge of empathy.  If you stand back and look at the work it looks like the person is pretty good with tools but doesn't know what to do with them.  Then I noticed that the cover on this LB isn't screwed shut.  It's buried in plaster and not screwed shut.




I had to give the new corrections (5) to the lady that lives there.  I could see the disgust in her eyes.  She thinks that I am the problem.  She asked me if there will be new corrections every time I show up.  I said yes.


----------



## ICE

We had NPDES training today.  Then I came across a municipal crew doing their best.  Yellow vest became quite upset because I took his picture.  I said, "Oh my, are you in the witness protection program too?"  "My Handler is a gal named Chelsea, how about you?"


----------



## north star

*+ **: :** +** : :** +*

What is NPDES Training ?

*+** : :** + **: :** +*


----------



## mark handler

National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES)


----------



## Mech

NPDES - keep the soil on your site and out of the waterways, yes / no?


----------



## ICE

Mech said:
			
		

> NPDES - keep the soil on your site and out of the waterways, yes / no?


That's the idea behind it.  And not just soil.  Trash junk and debris also.


----------



## Chad Pasquini

Ice, that looks like the nicest neighbor hood you have been to in a while?


----------



## MASSDRIVER

north star said:
			
		

> *+ **: :** +** : :** +*What is NPDES Training ?
> 
> *+** : :** + **: :** +*


A bunch of bullshlt.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> A bunch of bullshlt. Brent.


It's worse than that.  We make every job jump through hoops and turn a blind eye to the real polluters.

The worst offender that I have encountered is a cemetery. They have a SWPPP permit and do extensive grading without permit from us.  Hells Bells, they built a lake without us being involved.  There was a river of mud flowing off the property which must be several thousand acres.  I tried to stop them.  I tried to get them to plan ahead and control the runoff. I was ignored so I contacted the State.

The State inspector, the cemetery owner, my supervisors and I were standing on a bluff overlooking the new lake.  I said that there had been a huge amount of grading done to change the landscape and the owner denied that.  He said that I am making up a story.  I pointed to a bush and said how about that bush.  He said so what about that bush.  I said that's not a bush, it's the top of a 30' tall tree and here's a before and after pair of pictures.  That was the end of that meeting....and the last time I was there.

A Catholic Cardinal named Mahoney went to the top of my AHJ.  This was before he got spanked over the pedophile issue.

I was ordered to never set foot on that property again.....unless I was dead...in which case they would love to have me.


----------



## ICE

I see the contractors do things that make no sense simply because that's what is on the erosion control plans.  I had a six acre site that had sandbags all the way around the entire site.  Well over half of the bags were a waste because water couldn't enter or leave the site from the uphill side.  Before they did that we had a pre-grade meeting when I told them to do what makes sense, not dumb things that a draftsman put on the plan.  A State inspector showed up and demanded that everything that's on the plans be implemented.  I told them to call me next time and I will trump the State inspector.


----------



## ICE

Earlier I wrote a correction that required a CO detector in the hallway.  They complied.


----------



## ICE

This guy had an Erector Set when he was a kid...and he never learned to be patient.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Looks like he took out his frustrations on that "door".

Brent.


----------



## ICE

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> Looks like he took out his frustrations on that "door".Brent.


Those doors are junk.  The entire enclosure is junk.  I've ruined a few.  I've watched homeowners destroy a few.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> Those doors are junk.  The entire enclosure is junk.  I've ruined a few.  I've watched homeowners destroy a few.


Those must be a regional thing for you. I've never seen one in the wild. Is it a UL rated something or other?

To do one right you must be a master craftsman genius savant to actually get it plumb, square and intact.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> get it plumb, square and intact.


Well now that's asking for a lot.



> Is it a UL rated something or other?


I don't think so.  Some cities won't allow them.  Some cities require that they be painted to match the house.  We don't care what it looks like.

Wow! $152.00


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> Well now that's asking for a lot.  We don't care what it looks like.
> 
> Wow! $152.00


Apparently not  

Brent.


----------



## ICE

The job is a complete rewire and a service upgrade.  The contractor hasn't been there for a while.  The request for inspection stated rough electrical.  They came up way short on the number of receptacles per the spacing rules.  I wish there was a way to stop them from leaving energized equipment wide open for days on end.


----------



## ICE

A solar contractor is doing a service upgrade.  Now I can understand the tall mast.....Edison might not replace the drop so it may be for naught.  What I don't get is there is no flashing.  The roofer told me that he will cut the boot to fit it around the conduit.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> The job is a complete rewire and a service upgrade.  The contractor hasn't been there for a while.  The request for inspection stated rough electrical.  They came up way short on the number of receptacles per the spacing rules.  I wish there was a way to stop them from leaving energized equipment wide open for days on end.


They're lost.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

I was on the property to inspect a carnival when I was asked about this.  I know that there is a permit for a tower repair and that's all that I know.







I do know that I'm not looking forward to climbing scaffold that's held together with baling wire.


----------



## jdfruit

"I do know that I'm not looking forward to climbing scaffold that's held together with baling wire."

And apparently cloth strip bow ties too.


----------



## ICE

Flipper is at it again.  There is a service upgrade mounted over a hole in the wall.




The workman swears up and down that there's nothing to see in the hole.




I asked him why the wire is taped and he told me that the sheath stops there because that cable used to be in a recessed enclosure and since I wrote a correction about them bringing power through the back of the panel, they had to go to the junction box.  Okay, so why are the conductors taped, I ask.  He says that the insulation on those wires is so brittle and busted up that they had to tape it.  So I said "Well there you go.  There's more to see in that hole than you realized."



Flipper hired this contractor to doll up the house.  They replaced all of the receptacles but didn't provide arc fault protection.  There were four messed up panels.

Flipper called the office manager to complain about me.  I was there at the time.  I told him that the deficiencies were a result of his business decision, not a fault of mine.  His big problem was that I waited until the end to tell him that he must have AFCI.  I pointed out that we have not spoken previously....ever....and I told his so-called contractor at the first inspection.  Of course he will go over the top when he finds out that the panel must be moved.....and I explained that to the contractor before he did that work too.

When I found out that they mounted this enclosure over a hole I wrote the usual correction, so they did this.  The wires don't come through the back but the hole is still there.  The contractor said that he will talk to Flipper and let him know that the price just went up.  He said it in a way that was a warning to me that I am costing Flipper more money and he will pitch a bitch.

I plugged in a GFCI tester in the kitchen and when I tried to remove it the outlet box came out of the wall.  Of course that's another delayed correction which is my fault.  Flipper is watching his dollars fly away and he wants to take it out on me.

The contractor blamed Flipper for the deficiencies.  He told me that he know electricity inside and out but Flipper makes him cut corners.  Every time he does any work there are more cut corners.  Like flipper told him not to use wet location wire nuts in the j-box or put a bonding bushing on the close nipple.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

This is what you get when solar contractors do a service upgrade.  I made them remove the lath so that I could know what they did to bond the service entrance conduit.  And sure enough it's bonded to a knockout ring.

When I see the sawdust and wood I think, "You guys are slugs".  I know it is due to my upbringing and I should tolerate the trash better than I do.


----------



## ICE

The bedsheets are hiding a toilet.










I'm not sure what happened here.  There is no header plate and it looks like they might have taken a part from an old wall furnace.


----------



## ICE

The complaint says, "Unsafe structure being built."  It is 116 square feet.  At a bible school campus.  It covers half of a city block.  There was nobody there.




They've already hung the door.


----------



## ICE

This is a contractor's work.  At least he didn't deny that there's a hole in the wall.


----------



## ICE

This was presented by a General contractor.  He originally took out an electrical permit for a service upgrade and a plumbing permit to replace a hose bibb.  The plumbing permit is a sham permit because we will not issue single electrical, plumbing or mechanical permits to  General contractor.  We will issue any two as long as they are not related to the same scope of work.  For example a mechanical permit for a furnace and an electrical permit for a disconnect for that furnace will not be allowed.  However a permit for a furnace and an electrical permit for a service upgrade is legal.

The BS comes into this when there is a permit for something that we do not require permit for such as a replacing a hose bibb. When this contractor called for a time frame for his first inspection, I told him to get a licensed contractor to pull an electrical permit for the service upgrade before calling for inspection.  Instaed of doing that he came in the next day and pulled a permit for a water heater replacement.  I was there at the time.







They are truly dumb enough to think that I will not notice that the water heater is twenty years old.


----------



## ICE

This here's a double no shlt footing/slab inspection.


----------



## ICE

Flipper got ahead of himself on this one.  There was no shower liner inspection.  He pointed out the fact that "Well it's there....you can see it at the drain".




I have never understood putting a light and a fan in a shower stall.  I don't think these guys did either.


----------



## pyrguy

It was nailed down to make sure it would not float away.


----------



## ICE

The best part was when they asked me what was wrong.  There is a building permit to drywall a bathroom....and they gutted the house.  Re-plumbed, re-wired, new duct-furnace-A/C.  The drywall is all hung without any rough inspections.  And they asked me what was wrong.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> This here's a double no shlt footing/slab inspection.


You probably missed it cause it's kinda hard to see, but there's a gas meter in the middle of the formwork.

Don't feel bad. After a few years of experience you will learn to pick up some of the less than obvious violations.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> You probably missed it cause it's kinda hard to see, but there's a gas meter in the middle of the formwork. Don't feel bad. After a few years of experience you will learn to pick up some of the less than obvious violations.
> 
> Brent.


In my defense, I did catch the electric panel.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> This is a contractor's work.  At least he didn't deny that there's a hole in the wall.


There WAS a hole in the wall.

It's much better now.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

The lath was installed at the first inspection.  I asked them to remove the lath.  They acted like I was off base.  I can't get a good picture because of the narrow space but you can see that the service is next to a window.




There's two studs next to the window so I assume they are a trimmer and king.  They are spaced a little wide but there are no other studs to the left of these two for at least eight inches.




Here is what's left of the studs.  I stuck my hand behind the stucco and it's nothing but air.




I should really be sticking somebody else's hand behind the stucco huh.

Toy


----------



## ICE

We hired a contractor.  We don't need a permit.


----------



## ICE

Some people shouldn't have a dog.  At least he's getting enough to eat.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> Some people shouldn't have a dog.  At least he's getting enough to eat.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you remember the video of the bulldog that would take skateboards away from kids and skate on down the boulevard?
> 
> Another guy in a dress.  And probably just as nuts as the one we have here.
> 
> http://www.wimp.com/places-planet/


Although some of us may very well be nuts, that dude is demonstrably sane and well adjusted, proven by his affinity for kilts, bagpipes, Star Wars (duh) and FIRE.

Rock on kilted pyro, rock on.

Brent


----------



## ICE

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> Although some of us may very well be nuts


I'll admit to it if you will.

You really gotta wonder how he pulled off the fire thing.


----------



## TheCommish

ICE said:
			
		

> I'll admit to it if you will.You really gotta wonder how he pulled off the fire thing.


container on his back and switch on his belt watch his right arm


----------



## ICE

ICE said:
			
		

> This was presented by a General contractor.  He originally took out an electrical permit for a service upgrade and a plumbing permit to replace a hose bibb.  The plumbing permit is a sham permit because we will not issue single electrical, plumbing or mechanical permits to  General contractor.  We will issue any two as long as they are not related to the same scope of work.  For example a mechanical permit for a furnace and an electrical permit for a disconnect for that furnace will not be allowed.  However a permit for a furnace and an electrical permit for a service upgrade is legal.The BS comes into this when there is a permit for something that we do not require permit for such as a replacing a hose bibb. When this contractor called for a time frame for his first inspection, I told him to get a licensed contractor to pull an electrical permit for the service upgrade before calling for inspection.  Instaed of doing that he came in the next day and pulled a permit for a water heater replacement.  I was there at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are truly dumb enough to think that I will not notice that the water heater is twenty years old.


Well the new water heater is here.  One of the previous corrections stated that the single wall vent must be a minimum 6" from combustibles.


----------



## ICE

Here is a perfect example of why I have a terrible reputation.




I am such a prick that I am going to make them fix this conduit.




They will have to remove the furnace that they just got done installing.

There is the nuclear option.  They can go to the office and tell the manager that I am rude, I won't listen to them, I am not helpful and they want me replaced......with an inspector that will not make them fix the conduit.  Their biggest complaint will be that the conduit was broken before they slammed a furnace into it.  My office manager will be eager to please and agree wholeheartedly....you do need another inspector....one that can tell the difference between an existing condition and new damage to that conduit.  Gosh I'm sorry he put you through this Sir, I'll have a talk with him.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Plus it has to be accessible, right?

Brent

ETA: Have you ever thought about saving a step and just bring the other inspector along that will pass this crap?

You could get to be buddies.


----------



## ICE

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> Plus it has to be accessible, right?


You're getting pretty good at this Brent.  If there are splices then it's a j-box and yes it must be accessible.  I wasn't planning on going there. But you do have a point. Would this be considered accessible?  The cover can removed but I doubt much could be done beyond that.  I figured that if I got all of the conductors within a raceway it would be a winner.  But you know I could be a wiener.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> If there are splices then it's a j-box and yes it must be accessible.  I wasn't planning on going there. But you do have a point. Would this be considered accessible?  The cover can removed but I doubt much could be done beyond that.


That's why debates are fun.

"You need to fix that."

"You're unreasonable. We can't get to it."

"It need's to be accessible. Are you sure you cant get to it? You have to be able to get to it. Maybe move it over. Can't cover it with a furnace."

"What if we were to just fix the conduit?"

" Hey, there ya go. What if you just fix the conduit?"

Brent.


----------



## conarb

I thought accessible meant accessible by people in wheelchairs, blind people, retarded people, etc., you mean to tell me we now have to make J Boxes accessible?


----------



## TheCommish

I would consider the thought, I have 8000 pages of code at my disposal, do you want me to got their? or can we make the installation reasonably safe?


----------



## ICE

I was there for a final inspection of the solar installation.  There's no permit for a patio cover.  I left a notice to obtain a permit.  I was back in the office at 3:00 when the owner called.  I told him about planning dept. approval, permit and a drawing. I didn't even get to the part about no footing when he said, "How about if I just remove it"  I said okay by me and that's for free.  Then he said, "Cool, I bought the material last Saturday so I'll return it to Home Depot this Saturday"




That's the first time I have seen lifeguard chairs at a residence and these folks have two.

I should probably take a closer look at this water heater....but you know that there's no permit for the water heater.  People get riled up when you start piling on.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:
			
		

> That's the first time I have seen lifeguard chairs at a residence and these folks have two.


They actually make pretty good diving boards!  Nice place to do a high dive from.


----------



## ICE

This stuff should come in smaller containers.  The electrical contractor that did this will do it one time.  Well not unless he does another service upgrade in my area.  So he had to buy a can of the foam that will be wasted.


----------



## ICE

It is surprising how often I encounter a cantilevered girder.




Then they smothered that little chunk of post with hardware but it's not attached to the block of concrete.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Modified the hardware.

Cain't do that Tater.

Brent.


----------



## steveray

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> Modified the hardware. Cain't do that Tater.
> 
> Brent.


Not to mention that it already looks like it is split in half....


----------



## kyhowey

That cracks me up!  All that money on hardware and they forgot the "big picture".


----------



## MASSDRIVER

What really cracks me up is that pier blocks are acceptable and the block they use is usually split and held in the concrete by the tips of two 8d nails.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

steveray said:
			
		

> Not to mention that it already looks like it is split in half....


I don't think the post is split. The line that looks like a spli is a surface crack.


----------



## ICE

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> What really cracks me up is that pier blocks are acceptable and the block they use is usually split and held in the concrete by the tips of two 8d nails. Brent.


We haven't allowed those for a long time.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Do ya have to attach the FJ to the beam in CA?  Toe nailed with three nails or simpsonize it!

Just pretending to be an inspector, on weed patrol!

pc1


----------



## ICE

This furnace has been replaced by a wall furnace.  It has been left in the attic because that's the cheapest way to go.  The vent has been removed because it is easy to remove and they will probably try to use it.  What they didn't do was seal the old roof jack so the rain is getting in.  There is a puddle below the hole.  It's not a big puddle and we did get a lot of rain last night and this morning.


----------



## ICE

Here's another contractor that's into recycling.







This was inspected today because I left a notice on the door telling the HO that HVAC permits were about to expire due to no inspection on a year old permit.  I wrote nine corrections.  So a year later the contractor will get a call from the HO.  It will be an all day affair too.

There's a bunch of this.




Well thankfully, this usually only happens once per job.


----------



## ICE

It occurred to me that some people may not know what I meant by recycling in the post above.  Transite vent is not allowed to be used with contemporary furnaces.  The installation instructions for most if not all will not allow it's reuse.  If there is no mention of Transite in the installation instructions a phone call to the manufacturer is warranted and they will tell you not to reuse it.  The reason is that it takes too long to heat up and create a draw of the flue gasses.  In fact, it may never get hot enough to aid in the rise of flue gasses.  It worked in the past because half the heat produced by the furnace went up the stack.  The efficiency has improved to the point that not much heat is lost to the stack.

The next question is did the contractor reuse the Transite as a vent or is it being used as a sleeve for a metal vent?  I don't know but I suspect that is not the case.


----------



## ICE

The first time out it looked like this.  The old service enclosure has been left in the wall and the new enclosure is mounted over it.



Holes were punched in the cover of the old enclosure and the back of the new enclosure.  Chase nipples were installed and pigtails were brought from the old service enclosure into the new enclosure.




I wrote the usual corrections.  The contractor requested inspection for today.  He called me this morning to get an idea of what time I would be there for a lath inspection.  I was expecting a rough inspection and told him to remove the lath.

Here is the owner and the mess.  The contractor did remove the lath.




The panel is energized.  The owner has no power in the house.
You can see the caulk where the lath was against the nipple.




The owner called,the contractor while I was there.  The contractor was upset because the original correction notice said that he can't mount the new service enclosure over the old enclosure and he has removed the old enclosure.  He wants a code section regarding splices in air.  Then he said that if I find such a code he wants a section regarding J-boxes being accessible.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

That's how you start a fire without matches right there. Guy must be a survivalist.

Brent.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

So, not shlt, today I had the roofing torn off an addition, about 8 square, and ALL the dimensional shingles were installed upside down, meaning tabs up. Addition was permitted 5 years ago, roof inspection row signed off.

I purposely took no pictures as I thought it beneficial to society as a whole if there was no evidence of the a55hatery, on any level.

Brent.


----------



## Msradell

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> So, not shlt, today I had the roofing torn off an addition, about 8 square, and ALL the dimensional shingles were installed upside down, meaning tabs up. Addition was permitted 5 years ago, roof inspection row signed off.I purposely took no pictures as I thought it beneficial to society as a whole if there was no evidence of the a55hatery, on any level.
> 
> Brent.


I hope this was a homeowner DIY project and wasn't done by a contractor!  We all really would have appreciated pictures of that one however.


----------



## steveray

Boiler drain for hose bibb? No backflow? Thought you guys would be more protective of your water supply with it being scarce and all....


----------



## ICE

There was a slight breeze and it was shaking.


----------



## ICE

steveray said:
			
		

> Boiler drain for hose bibb? No backflow? Thought you guys would be more protective of your water supply with it being scarce and all....


Do you really make people ruin their hose bibb with an anti back-flow gizmo?


----------



## ICE




----------



## jdfruit

in post #1488, what the eff is the candy cane tube function?


----------



## ICE

jdfruit said:
			
		

> in post #1488, what the eff is the candy cane tube function?


Not sure..


----------



## steveray

608.13.6 Atmospheric-type vacuum breakers.

Pipe-applied atmospheric-type vacuum breakers shall conform to ASSE 1001 or CAN/CSA-B64.1.1. Hose-connection vacuum breakers shall conform to ASSE 1011, ASSE 1019, ASSE 1035, ASSE 1052, CAN/CSA-B64.2, CAN/CSA-B64.2.2 or CSA B64.7. These devices shall operate under normal atmospheric pressure when the critical level is installed at the required height.


----------



## ICE

steveray said:
			
		

> 608.13.6 Atmospheric-type vacuum breakers.  Pipe-applied atmospheric-type vacuum breakers shall conform to ASSE 1001 or CAN/CSA-B64.1.1. Hose-connection vacuum breakers shall conform to ASSE 1011, ASSE 1019, ASSE 1035, ASSE 1052, CAN/CSA-B64.2, CAN/CSA-B64.2.2 or CSA B64.7. These devices shall operate under normal atmospheric pressure when the critical level is installed at the required height.


Yes and they install with a set screw that ruins the threads on the hose Bibb.  i owned a house that came with them.  Unles the hose was open I had to wipe off my glasses every time I closed the valve.  A really asinine piece of crap hardware that I have never asked for.  I bet that they cost $20 too.


----------



## steveray

They do come built in some of the new fangled technology you know.....


----------



## MASSDRIVER

jdfruit said:
			
		

> in post #1488, what the eff is the candy cane tube function?


Somebodies bright idea of a fart fan duct.

Brent.


----------



## mtlogcabin

View attachment 1185


View attachment 1185


/monthly_2015_05/snake.png.2396ecc32dbd09787d123cdce5f7d4ab.png


----------



## jdfruit

mt; your pic caption got cut off.

There must be a story on this pic; what is it?


----------



## mtlogcabin

Just wanted to see what electrical code violation ice might notice

It was sent to my inspector from someones facebook page.

Just another reason to plug all the knock out holes in a box.


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Just wanted to see what electrical code violation ice might notice It was sent to my inspector from someones facebook page.
> 
> Just another reason to plug all the knock out holes in a box.


That KO looks plenty plugged to me.


----------



## ICE

I was there for the final inspection.  Three bathrooms were remodeled.  Three fart fans were installed.  This picture is the roof over one of the bathrooms.  There is no sign of an exhaust fan termination above the roof.  There is no signature for rough mechanical.




I wrote a correction to duct the fans to the exterior.  I also asked them to remove the ceiling drywall because there is no way to reach that attic above the bathrooms without a long crawl.

The contractor complained bitterly about the ceilings.  So I figured I would do him a favor and told him to provide a ladder and I will see if there is air coming out of the vent.  The black box is the vent.




Here you can see another one of the black box vents.....and the ladder he provided for me to get on the roof.




Well I did manage to access the roof and there is no air coming from the vent terminals.  So the Ahole put dummy vent terminals on the roof and figured that I wouldn't risk climbing the ladder.  I did not climb that ladder.  I made the contractor provide an extension ladder.  Then I gave him a notice to pay a re-inspection fee.  He said to me, "Maybe they hooked it up to one of the other pipes, did you check them too"?  And he is a licensed contractor.  Then I thought "You know, it's altogether possible that they did just that"..


----------



## ICE

The scope of work is to rebuild this bell tower.  It states that deteriorated wood is to be removed and replaced as needed.  The tower is taller than it appears because we are seeing it from atop a hill and the tower is below the hill.  It is at least 75' tall.






So instead of rebuilding it in place, they took it off with a crane.




As rotten as this thing is I'm surprised that it held together.




Here is the new one.  It is 24' tall.


----------



## ICE

We really should require a license to install gas pipe.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

An average day

Thank you foam monkeys.

Every exterior outlet.









Brent

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for a furnace and coil in an attic.  Today was the fourth attempt.  The first time out there was no ladder.  The scuttle was in the bedroom and about 10"x10".  I wrote corrections on the A/C condenser, asked for a ladder to access the attic and a scuttle 22"x30" somewhere other than the bedroom.

At the second visit there was a ladder but the scuttle had not changed.  I could get my head in the attic and that was it.  They also had missed a few of the A/C condenser corrections.  I could see part of the condensate line and noticed that it had no slope so I wrote that correction.

The third trip was all about the owner complaining about the attic scuttle.  He told me that the contractor assures him that there is no place to locate it other than in the living room.  I told him that is BS and to put it in the hallway.

Now I was there today for trip four.  There is a 22"x30" scuttle in the hallway and I was able to get in the attic.

Here are the primary and secondary condensate drain pipes.




There's 25' of extra gas pipe in the attic.  Not a code violation but odd.

The primary extends to an exterior gable end.  The secondary stops here at the return air register....in the hallway.







There is no P-trap in the primary and neither the primary or the secondary drain pipes have any slope.  The only way to get slope is to raise the equipment and it is already against rafters on one side so that means moving it.

The lady was angry with me a few inspections ago.  You know, "Are you going to write corrections every time you come here".  She almost lost it today.  If she goes to the office to complain, should I sign off the permit and be done with them?


----------



## ICE

This is a service upgrade.  It is back-fed from the existing service in order to maintain power to the dwelling.



This is the old service and the red and black are the feeder to the new service.  The service drop is still hooked up at the old goose-neck.  They want me to release it to Edison to switch the drop to the new goose-neck.  I tried to explain that if I allow Edison to do that they will make the connection and the existing service will then be back-fed right up and out of the old goose-neck.



I am surprised that more people aren't getting killed.


----------



## ICE

They are sticking a room addition on the front of this house right in front of the electric service.  Several weeks ago I asked them to get a temporary power pole because the service drop would be in the middle of the building.




And it's a contractor no less.


----------



## jdfruit

Appears to be a jumpered & uncovered existing main meter socket with hot cut leads on the roof and unprotected feed cables coming out the back of temp main box.


----------



## ICE

Thankfully the electrician won't have to feel bad about coming back for just this.


----------



## ICE

I don't think that I would be willing to stack a unit of OSB in one spot on an old building.


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for the replacement of three antennas at the top of this tower.




I wasn't in the mood to climb that scaffold.




As luck would have it, I could see everything just fine from the seat of my truck.


----------



## TheCommish

that is one ugly tree


----------



## ICE

You know they paid a load for that tower.





Cell towers are all over the place....but not at fire stations.

http://smartgridawareness.org/2015/03/22/la-county-fire-fighters-fighting-cell-towers/


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:
			
		

> Cell towers are all over the place....but not fire stations.
> 
> http://smartgridawareness.org/2015/03/22/la-county-fire-fighters-fighting-cell-towers/


I saw a similar study published elsewhere a few years ago.  The funny part about it was that in the study some of the cell towers that were part of the study weren't even turned on yet people living around them said they had symptoms!  Maybe a bigger part of the problem with psychological then it is physical?


----------



## steveray

We get cellquoia's around here...Not the palm variety....


----------



## tmurray

Msradell said:
			
		

> I saw a similar study published elsewhere a few years ago.  The funny part about it was that in the study some of the cell towers that were part of the study weren't even turned on yet people living around them said they had symptoms!  Maybe a bigger part of the problem with psychological then it is physical?


That's the placebo effect. Give people a sugar pill and tell them it'll alleviate their symptoms and about 50% of a typical group of people will report fewer symptoms.


----------



## ICE

This enclosure came off of the wall.




The original enclosure was recessed and a surface mount was placed over it.  Along came the solar contractor.  He removed enclosures #1 and #2 and put #3 over the hole.  All of the wires were spliced in the wall.

We're headed in the right direction with #4.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Maybe they didn't know they couldn't do that.





Wait for it.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> Maybe they didn't know they couldn't do that.


You might have a point.  They are not electricians.  They are not construction workers.  They come from all walks of life.  They have had no exposure to any training.  They didn't even have a shop class in school.  It's not logical to assume that they know what to do.  In fact it's makes sense to assume that they don't.

So that was the case with this bunch.  They are all from Iran.  Nice guys that can use tools but just don't know what to do with the tools.  All to often I get the same results from actual licensed electricians.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> They are all from Iran.  Nice guys that can use tools but just don't know what to do with the tools.


Probably nuclear reactor technicians.

Brent.

p.s. Who hires these people?


----------



## ICE

The owner told me that he hired a licensed electrical contractor.  Somehow I knew better.


----------



## ICE

The solar contractor moved the mains because they were in the way of the conduit entry at the bottom rear.




I didn't notice it right away.  The owner was with me when I said that solar can't be introduced to this panel because it is center fed and maxed out.  He said that he noticed that 3" long pieces of the big red and black wire was laying on the ground and he wondered why.  Well there you go, they had to trim the wire to get it back into the breakers.

There was a lot wrong with this job and the contractor has bailed.  The contractor talked the owner into getting the permit for the service upgrade, lied to the owner about the solar having passed a final inspection and got all of the money.  This is the first time I have been there.


----------



## ICE

This job is HVAC.  The electrician opened the wall behind this service enclosure to get to power for the A/C.







That is a splice in the service entrance conductors.


----------



## ICE

I got there too early.  There was a young lady on the roof making up the bonding splices.




That c-crimp twisted right off.  She has a crimping tool but she doesn't have enough strength in her hands to finish it off.  The crimp with the three wires is from before she got there.  I pointed this out at the last inspection several weeks ago.  She asked me how she is supposed to remove it.  I wanted to tell her to use dykes but I held back.  The worst part of this is the fact that they have had weeks to fix all of this.  There are four J-boxes to work on and she was on the first one.  I get the feeling that they expected me to do the work.

I interrupted her as she was about to crimp this to a solid #6.


----------



## jar546

These photos are beyond awesome yet sad at the same time.  Unfortunately this is very common.


----------



## TheCommish

there is a knife on the roof and the tradesman had to work real hard to cut the strands with that blade? or did he abuse his diagonal cutters?


----------



## ICE

TheCommish said:
			
		

> there is a knife on the roof and the tradesman had to work real hard to cut the strands with that blade? or did he abuse his diagonal cutters?


She was using 10" lineman pliers and twisting it around another wire when I walked up.  If you look at the insulation you can see that it is torn rather than cut.  There's broken strands on the other side as well. Yesterday was trip 12 for that job.  They are down to sending women to do the work.  Pretty soon it will be just me and a pile of tools.


----------



## Mech

Is there a conflict of interest if you inspect your own work?  Or are inspections not needed because you know you did it correctly from the beginning?


----------



## ICE

Mech said:
			
		

> Is there a conflict of interest if you inspect your own work?  Or are inspections not needed because you know you did it correctly from the beginning?


I hope they don't figure out that I don't pull permits.


----------



## ICE

This is an owner builder.  The job is a kitchen remodel. They stripped the front wall and installed a window.  The stuff that looks like mayonnaise, is slippery and might be mayonnaise.




The screws that look like drywall screws are drywall screws.

There is no flashing under the side flange.  The flashing is the sticky rubber style.  It will not stick to the flange because of the mayonnaise.

The owner is a woman in her sixties that thinks I should meet the workman and show them how to install a window....and while you're at it please explain the electrical work.


----------



## ICE

I guess I got all complicated on them when I asked for a rain diverter on the roof over the condenser.







Now here's a short guy that understands the principle of diverting rain water.


----------



## ICE

One or both is/are bootleg.


----------



## ICE

The house has been re-plumbed with Pex.  This little bit of copper is new.  The electric service is not the original equipment and I can't find where there was a water pipe bond or any grounding electrodes.  The extra hole may have something to do with that.


----------



## ICE

In post # 1531 I neglected to mention that there is no code for a rain diverter.  It used to be in a manufacturers installation instructions but I haven't seen that in years.  Thankfully it's in ICE Code 301.  Chapter three is the mechanical section.


----------



## steveray

Is that a water service or irrigation system? Whats the T&P blowoff for?


----------



## ICE

It is water service.  The T&P is an extra.


----------



## steveray

Must be all that water you guys have bumping up the pressure....Or all that sunshine making it hot I guess.....


----------



## Darren Emery

ICE said:
			
		

> In post # 1531 I neglected to mention that there is no code for a rain diverter.  It used to be in a manufacturers installation instructions but I haven't seen that in years.  Thankfully it's in ICE Code 301.  Chapter three is the mechanical section.


The ICE code is a suggested code, right?  You're not enforcing personal preference....


----------



## ICE

Darren Emery said:
			
		

> The ICE code is a suggested code, right?  You're not enforcing personal preference....


Well sorta..not really..maybe a little bit..the lines do get blurred.  I have always said that nobody should do what I do.  That includes me too but I just can't help it.

Every now and then a contractor will ask for a code section that says that he should take measures to keep the crap from the roof out of the condenser.  It's usually coming from some guy that is upset because he got a :buttload of corrections and he is used to getting none.  I ignore them.

Oh no, did I say "ignore them".  I'm not supposed to do that either.  The louder they are, the easier it is to ignore them.


----------



## ICE

This job is a patio cover.  I was there for footing and now the final, not the frame.  It is large and overbuilt.  The owner (a policeman) and his father-in-law (a retired OSHPOD inspector) did the work.  The inspector is the one that met me.




Those wrinkles move around.

The fascia has been removed because the patio roof is about an inch below the drip edge metal.  There was only a six foot step ladder so I couldn't get to the bat roost.




The retired inspector told me that they removed and replaced the starter board from the house overhang in order to nail the sheathing and install the rolled roofing.

What they didn't do was use a hard setting mastic to adhere the rolled roofing.




It doesn't show in the picture but there is a layer of felt under the rolled roofing and it isn't stuck to the plywood either.

He got kinda testy when I told him what went wrong.  After giving me a glimpse of his storied career he said that he will take it to the head engineer.

I excused myself and imagined a head that was an engineer.  One where people could put a quarter in a slot and the engineer's head would give then an answer.  I get strange thoughts now and then.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

An average day







Time to blast neighbors.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ICE

This is a wall furnace vent.




The label says that it is type BU when installed with the usual.  I've never heard of BU vent.


----------



## ICE

Before I said anything, the contractor says, "I stopped at the brick because I didn't know what you wanted me to do".  So I drew him a detail.  Since the brick is flat, the flashing will have to lip over and have a slope as well.  The flashing I drew isn't available at HD so it will have to be made....and it will look awful.


----------



## ICE

You wouldn't think that the guy that did the framing would do this to the framing... that is the case here.




If you look at the backing around the tub you might get the idea that he's a better plumber than he is a carpenter.




Almost there.




He used that gray plastic strap to anchor the mixing valve and there is still missing backing at the tub.


----------



## ICE

The wires are so low that this guy at 5'5" can touch them.




They are laying on the patio roof and then disappear into the attic.




I was there to inspect a solar install that included an electric service upgrade.  I left a notice to eliminate the hazardous condition.  There were other corrections and a few days later an inspection was requested.  The morning of the inspection, the contractor called for a time of my arrival.

I asked him if he got rid of the wires feeding the garage and he said no.  He stated that he didn't have anything to do with the garage and the owner refuses to let him touch it.  I asked him if, as part of a service upgrade, he checks to know exactly what it is that he is energizing.  He said no...the code only applies to the work that he is doing.  He asked me if I require other current code items like required outlets, circuits, etc.  I canceled the inspection and told him to do the correction as written.


----------



## ICE

The single satellite dish owner turned in three dish for building without a permit.  I haven't been up close yet but it appears as though the open patio area has been enclosed.  Well ya, you shouldn't do that without a permit and uno dish is within his rights to complain about tres dish.  But why wait until it is completed?


----------



## e hilton

Looks like the 66T in you march 17 picture is fastened tothe 4x6 with sheetrock screws.


----------



## ICE

It is.  That's just to hold it while holes are drilled.


----------



## Francis Vineyard

*MUST SEE . . . *

Check out this new, break-through technology for drywall cutting…









(photos courtesy of Charlottesville Building Inspector F.M.)


----------



## ICE

If he used a chainsaw he wouldn't have to bend over.


----------



## ICE

The neighbors are quarreling.




The pipe at the base of the tree is about three feet long.




Neighbor :butt is flooding out neighbor B by sticking a hose in the pipe and letting it run for twenty-four hours at a time.

The topography has a mild slope towards B and the underfloor area at B is a muddy mess.  :butt works for the area water purveyor.  B wants the building department to put a stop to :butt's malicious behavior.

The stuccoed structure appears to be under 120 sg. ft. and is exempt from permit but it is too close to the property line per planning department regulations.  Nobody is aware of that except me.


----------



## tmurray

Francis Vineyard said:
			
		

> *MUST SEE . . . *Check out this new, break-through technology for drywall cutting…
> 
> (photos courtesy of Charlottesville Building Inspector F.M.)


...I wonder how long his saws last with all that dust in the motor...


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Wouldn't take me long to stuff a bag of insulation and pour a big bottle of pvc glue down than twatwaffle's pipe.

Brent.


----------



## Mech

Make a photocopy of the building code section about building set back lines and anonymously drop it off at neighbor B's house so he can call the building department and make a building code complaint.


----------



## ICE

Mech said:
			
		

> Make a photocopy of the building code section about building set back lines and anonymously drop it off at neighbor B's house so he can call the building department and make a building code complaint.


OOOOHHHHH No.

Since :butt works for the water company and we are in a severe drought I suggested that B start there.  That would be my advice no matter where :butt worked.

B is a nonstop talker.  B wants a sit down with the office manager.  I look forward to that .... mainly because I won't be there.  It shouldn't take more than an hour or two, what with the videos and all.


----------



## tmurray

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> Wouldn't take me long to stuff a bag of insulation and pour a big bottle of pvc glue down than twatwaffle's pipe. Brent.


Maybe some of this...


----------



## MASSDRIVER

tmurray said:
			
		

> Maybe some of this...


Lord have mercy.

Brent.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> OOOOHHHHH No.B wants a sit down with the office manager.  I look forward to that .... mainly because I won't be there.  It shouldn't take more than an hour or two, what with the videos and all.


Proper thinking for a Sith.

I am intrigued by your philosophy and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Brent.


----------



## e hilton

That bri gs back memories.  About a hunnert years ago, my first house, washing machine was in the garage, pipes in the uninsulated exterior wall, north Texas.  They froze and burst.  I figured i could fix them, just needed access to them.  Never had cut sheetrock before... how do you cut something as  tough as plywood?  No internet back then, dont need to ask for help, i can do anything.  You would be amazed at the amount of white dust a circular saw creates in a small garage cutting gypsum. Ok, maybe you wouldnt be surprised, but i was.


----------



## ICE

Flipper has washed up on my beach again.













He has been to the office to complain about me.  He says that I don't know what I am doing and shouldn't be inspecting electrical work.


----------



## JPohling

I see lots of corrections in his future!


----------



## ICE

JPohling said:
			
		

> I see lots of corrections in his future!


On that day I wrote 28.  And not a picayune correction in the bunch.  They have not wired the dwelling and it is still gutted.  There are two missing bathrooms and the kitchen is gone.  There is a busted up swimming pool and a junky illegal addition that houses a bootlegged laundry.







This is the second go around for the windows.  As luck would have it they replaced all of the windows before they bothered with getting a permit.  I stopped the work and told them to R&R the windows.  They gave me attitude when I started to explain how to install a window so I stepped back and let them do as they please.  I can write "R&R the windows" forever.


----------



## e hilton

In the picture with the pretty new fence boards in the foreground and the nasty pool in the background ... whats the deal with the sqhare column?  Looks like stacked cmu on the bottom and leaning decorative blocks on top.  Doesnt look stable.


----------



## TheCommish

Today funny papers submittal

View attachment 1209


View attachment 1209


/monthly_2015_07/572953d7d6b70_Burntplans.jpg.82435e42817a89b893c677348e3a69f9.jpg


----------



## steveray

Tell him to get a MA license.....He submits garbage stuff for the solar companies as well....


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:
			
		

> In the picture with the pretty new fence boards in the foreground and the nasty pool in the background ... whats the deal with the sqhare column?  Looks like stacked cmu on the bottom and leaning decorative blocks on top.  Doesnt look stable.


It is all bootleg and will be demolished.


----------



## ICE

I wrote a correction because the gas pipe was swinging.  There will be a gas valve on the end of it.

They added the plumbers tape.




Pay attention to the furnace power cord.  It has an attachment plug.


----------



## ICE

Solar **** did another service upgrade.




You can see the paint line of where the old cabinet was mounted.




They need to get smart about hiring subs to do the upgrades.  The low bidder is not always the best choice.  I suppose ***** City doesn't care how many times the sub has to do it over but too many inspectors don't care and would approve shlt work like this.  Then a few years down the road there's a mold problem.  And I suppose *o*l*r *i*y doesn't care about that either.


----------



## ICE

I was out for a month with busted ribs.  This job got to drywall and lath without me.  It is a kitchen remodel on the other side of the wall.







I can only wonder about the rough plumbing and electrical.  But hey now, an inspector signed those off.


----------



## ICE

They should never stucco before inspection.




I should not have to break into it.




But I did.




He must be an old guy.


----------



## ICE

I tugged on a conduit LB on the outside and it pulled out.  So I found the underfloor access in a bedroom closet and got this picture.




Sure enough the conduit is floating free.

Then looking at the picture I saw this.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> I was out for a month with busted ribs.


Puss *E*.

Gotta work it off.

But ain't it fun? Doctor tells you he can wrap 'em, or not wrap 'em. "What's the difference?" you ask. "Nothing." he retorts. "OK, they why bother?" you querry. "Looking at a new Rolex Submariner" says he. "So you want 'em wrapped?"

Hope you had a wonderful time laughing, crying, sneezing, walking, taking a dump, sleeping, eating and breathing.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

Hiccups were terrible and burping was a drag.  I'm feeling much better now and only laying down is difficult.


----------



## steveray

Cracked some ribs in a motorcycle wreck a bunch of years back...First time I sneezed, I almost cried....


----------



## ICE

The permit is for a guest house.  A new guest house.  There is a guest house in the way.  I was asked to allow them to keep this based on a set of plans for a guest house.  They filled a dumpster with the roof and decided that demolishing this building is a lot of work so let's try to keep it.




One inch anchor bolts 48" OC.


----------



## ICE

I was on the property to inspect the conversion of the garage back to it's original condition as a garage.  At least that's what the permit stated.

They haven't gotten to the bathroom yet.  Then there's the drywall on the ceiling and misc. electrical problems.





I couldn't help but notice that the open patio cover has been enclosed in a strange way with drywall.




I peered inside and saw a sliding glass door.  I asked the owner what was on the other side of the slider and he said that it is the dining room.  I said well then, let's have a look.


It actually was a dining room before he built this wall and closet to separate the living room from the bed.  That's what a bold faced liar looks like.




The water heater was in the kitchen when he bought the house.


----------



## ICE

If you don't ask them to remove the tunnel under the service entrance conduit.....




this is what you are missing......




Removing the tunnel is dangerous because it is over the entrance conductor terminals....so stand back while the kid, that has no clue but works for a solar contractor, risks his life.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Wayne

An average day

Like a bull in a china shop.


----------



## Msradell

Looks like they had some really hungry termites in there.  I'm sure it made getting the holes through the framing much easier!


----------



## ICE

I always require a structural strap across over-bored top plates.  The typical strap is a ST62xx with xx being what ever length it takes to place 10 nails on each side of the damage.  This case will take a MST that may be quite long.  I am not sure how long I can let this get to before they need an engineer.

Did I mention that this is a solar company.  The stucco repair will turn out better than anyone would expect.


----------



## ICE

I have been marginalized.  A new inspector has been assigned to the district office that I report to and he was given a chunk of my territory.  He got most of the good stuff and I have been left with re-roofs and water heaters....and not many to look at.  I have averaged 4 to 7 inspections a day since the new guy showed up.

This roof is newer and pretty big.




I'd say that he's a bit rude and he didn't get a permit.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Professional bass fisherman.

No, no. No need to thank me. I'm an idea man.

Brent.


----------



## mmmarvel

ICE said:
			
		

> I have been marginalized.  A new inspector has been assigned to the district office that I report to and he was given a chunk of my territory.  He got most of the good stuff and I have been left with re-roofs and water heaters....and not many to look at.  I have averaged 4 to 7 inspections a day since the new guy showed up.I can't take too much more of this.  I need to find another way to make a living.


I just posted a boatload of jobs in CA - go for it.


----------



## conarb

\ said:
			
		

> I can't take too much more of this. I need to find another way to make a living.


Tiger:

With all the knowledge you've gained as an inspector come over to the bright side and become a contractor, if you're good enough Brent may even make you a member of the clan and then you will have the privilege of wearing the kilt.


----------



## ICE

Oh my gosh conarb....I'm way too picky for that....I would drive subcontractors crazy....nobody would do a second job....well they would do the first one a few times but never again....that and finding competent help drove me away from construction.

Unless you are in the tall cotton the help you get isn't much help.  People who know how to use tools and are willing to work for a decent paycheck died out a generation ago.  Now they want what they want when they want it.


----------



## ICE

Well he is a little guy with no engineering knowledge.




This is awful to watch.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

The slackline would bother me.

The 2x4 bridge, not so much. Better than jumping or hopping up and down a ladder.

Used to have fun when I was cutting those big ranch style roofs by leaning the rafters against the plate and scrambling up the angle like an orangutan.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> like an orangutan.


Well I didn't want to say anything about that but now that the cat is out of the bag.......


----------



## conarb

Alone on a cloudy day a man decides to take a hike up a mountain trail.  As he nears the top of the mountain he is deep in thought. Not aware of  his surroundings the man slips off a cliff and starts to slide down the  face of the mountain. After falling nearly 100 feet he is able to grab  on to a small branch growing out of the side of the mountain to stop his  fall. He looks down and estimates a sheer 1000 foot drop to the ground  below.

Not knowing what else to do he starts shouting "God, God please help  me". As he is shouting out to God the clouds start to part and as an  opening appears a ray of light beams down upon the man.

The man cries out, "God please help me!!!".

A voice from above asks, "My son, do you believe?"

The man replies, "Yes, I believe."

The voice says, "Then let go of the branch."

Incredulous, the man replies, "If I let go of the branch I'll fall 1000 ft to my death."

Once again the voice says, "Do you believe?"

Again the man replies, "Yes, I believe."

The voice says, "Then let go of the branch."

The man cries and admits, "God, I'm scared to let go of the branch."

The voice with much tenderness and compassion says, "Let go of the branch."

Hearing the tenderness and compassion in the voice the man says, "Okay God, I'm going to let go of the branch."

He lets go of the branch and starts to fall, he continues to fall until he hits the ground and dies instantly.

Once he is dead, the ray of light disappears and as the opening in the clouds start to close shut, the voice says...

"I hate inspectors."


----------



## ICE

conarb said:
			
		

> The voice says, "Then let go of the branch."


I quit listening to the voice long ago.


----------



## ICE

there used to be a wall furnace.  It was replaced with new HVAC.  16 corrections.


----------



## e hilton

Sorry, i find that offensive and in poor taste.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:
			
		

> Sorry, i find that offensive and in poor taste.


No need to apologize..I agree wholeheartedly.  But at the same time I thought it was funny,,,,I mean he named his prized sheep Martha.

Let me make it up to you with this one


----------



## conarb

Hey Brent, you are needed in New York,


----------



## MASSDRIVER

I love the gunfighter video, and I don't even have a sheep.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

I love the gunfighter video, and I don't even have a sheep.

Brent.

ewe


----------



## ICE

I always check to see what the roofer did to the service drop.




With this house, the drop should be attached right here.




It ended up draped across the house next door.




The re-roof permit was taken out by the owner.  The neighbor didn't have a clue about the energized service drop laying on their roof and the owner of the house being roofed wasn't there.  I called Edison and they said they would be right over.  Five hours later nothing had changed.  The way the thing is snagged on the iron vent pipe indicates that it was placed that way on purpose.  When I told the neighbor about it, she wasn't upset until I told her to stay away from the plumbing in her house.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Brent,

Have you heard the "Red Hot Chili Pipers!" you'd like them, kinda like Steely Dan on roids!

pc1


----------



## conarb

Tiger:

You think you have some bad "average days", just think what you would see if you were up here in out pot patches.  *This is from a real estate appraiser's average day*, this guy is located in Hopland, that's near Brent, maybe Brent could take over inspecting these "facilities".


----------



## e hilton

Your recent pictures look like you are in a better neighborhood.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:
			
		

> Your recent pictures look like you are in a better neighborhood.


Here let me fix that:




Might be a dentist that lives here.  But nope, that's not a bullet hole and even a dentist wouldn't shoot a bovine in the forehead with an arrow.


----------



## north star

*% = + = %*





> I can't take too much more of this.  I need to find another way to make a living."


Have you considered opening up an Inspection & Plans Review businessfor yourself ?..........Albeit, you will probably have to do it away from

where you have been inspecting all of these years........There is a

definite need all over the "Oh No Peoples Republic of the U.S" for

competent inspections & plan reviewing........Just ask Jeff and some

others on here........You might as well get paid [ well ] for your efforts.

Also, moving in to a new area might give you a fresher outlook on the

"Oh So Corrupt Construction Industry".

FWIW, ...stay away from working with that dude in a skirt [ kilt ],

and toting a combat [ i.e. - Rambo style ] knife.......He'll get you in

to more trouble.     

*% = + = %*


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE,

Take all those photo's unless Jeff has the copyrights and do a Roofing "Not" 101 book or a "Wiring for Dumber Dummies book!"

pc1


----------



## ICE

Flipper asked me what I would do with  this pool.







I figured that ten guys with wheelbarrows and a whacker should fix it up in two weeks.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> ICE,Take all those photo's unless Jeff has the copyrights and do a Roofing "Not" 101 book or a "Wiring for Dumber Dummies book!"
> 
> pc1


Well there's a question.  How would Jeff have copyright to a picture that I took?  Since the picture is here, I would suppose that there is no copyright.  Pictures that Jeff posts always have his name on them.  That is an indication that they are copyrighted.

It has been my hope that the rest of the folks here would see the benefit of posting pictures.  I figured that pictures would drive enrollment.  Of course at some point it would mean that entry to see the pictures would be pay to play.  It didn't happen.  I am the only one to post pictures on a regular basis and it has had no effect on enrollment.

Every now and then I hear from someone that found these pictures to be informative.  The target audience is so small and mostly uninterested that trying to capitalize on this is not feasible.  It's all here for free and Jeff struggles to get help with maintaining it.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:
			
		

> It has been my hope that the rest of the folks here would see the benefit of posting pictures.  I figured that pictures would drive enrollment.  Of course at some point it would mean that entry to see the pictures would be pay to play.  It didn't happen.  I am the only one to post pictures on a regular basis and it has had no effect on enrollment.
> 
> Every now and then I hear from someone that found these pictures to be informative.  The target audience is so small and mostly uninterested that trying to capitalize on this is not feasible.  It's all here for free and Jeff struggles to get help with maintaining it.


Those of us who visit here regularly (and are paying members) certainly appreciate your photos!  They certainly show what problems and experiences members of the profession have in certain areas of the country.  It certainly very different than what many experience.  Whether it helps enrollment or not it's certainly an open question but I certainly hope that you feel your work is appreciated.


----------



## ICE

Well thanks Msradell.  I know several members get a kick out of the pictures but pc1 was talking about making it into a book and that takes more than entertainment value to succeed.  When I first started posting pictures I did see an uptick in enrollment but that leveled off long ago and I quit paying attention.  I see that we are up to 6,888 members now.  It was near 1,300 when I started.  The number is meaningless because 97.46% of those people were here the day they enrolled and haven't returned since.

One indication of the popularity of pictures is the number of views this thread has garnered.  175 people have racked up 140,000 views.


----------



## Mech

I subscribed to this thread for the amusement.


----------



## north star

*& = &*

*****Mech***,

May I also encourage you to become a "paid subscription"

member [  i.e. -  Sawhorse  ]............You can increase your

amusement & enjoyment levels substantially with just the

pictures.   :grin:

*& = &*


----------



## Mech

Northstar - I believe I am, it's just that the website does not indicate.

I sent a check to Jeff's office back in December which I am sure got cashed.  I just never got motivated to contact him and ask his office administrator to look through the books and "credit" me here on the site.  I figured I would not bother him with all the other stuff he has going on.  So this December, I'll consider using paypal or a credit card so I automatically get the sawhorse status.

The $35/year is definitely worth the free advice and code interpretations.  That is about half an hour's worth of a paid consultant's time.


----------



## e hilton

[quote=Mech;149323

The $35/year is definitely worth the free advice and code interpretations.  That is about half an hour's worth of a paid consultant's time.

I wish k had your consultants.  Mine are in the $150/hr range, and last month i got a proposal from one for $2,500/day billed in full day increments.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE,

I thought you said the new guys getting all the gravy inspections?

Question is does it work and is it to code?

pc1


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> ICE,I thought you said the new guys getting all the gravy inspections?
> 
> Question is does it work and is it to code?
> 
> pc1


The new guy got screwed 11 days ago and found that out yesterday.  He was sitting in his truck under a shade tree looking at his map, had the motor running and his radio and A/C blasting away.  He sat there for a few minutes and when he pulled away he noticed that a little white parking enforcement jeep was sitting behind him.  He didn't give it a second thought until the ticket arrived in the mail.  These parking police are over the top rude.  How they can ticket a car with a person in the car and no sweeper in sight is beyond me.

So I know the head parking enforcement officer and me and the NFG went to see her.  Didn't matter says she because there is a private company that collects the fines and it is out of her hands.  She made it clear that if he had brought her the ticket on the same day that it was issued she could have wiped it clean but since it's at a private blood sucking enterprise, he will have to write them a story and ask them to refund the ticket that he must pay before he can appeal.  I didn't want to tell the blister what I thought about how he was ticketed....she is after all, the head officer and I might need the head later.

Years ago I turned a corner and the street was flooded.  I mean flooded.  I drove up the block and found where it was coming down a driveway.  I parked and walked up the driveway and discovered that there was a ruptured municipal water tank on a hill behind the house.  Probably a few million gallons.  When I got back to my truck there was a parking ticket because it was street sweeping day.  That Vampira has got to be sooooo stupid that she must get lost daily.  They are dumb enough to ticket cars with a stiff behind the wheel....three and four times.  There were enough flies to get it airborne and they were still writing tickets. Once they spotted the vultures professional courtesy took over and they stayed away.

The plumbing is ..... I don't have a clue.  Since I have no clue, I wouldn't know what code to apply.  It isn't leaking and it's been there for a long time.

Today I went to a house for a re-roof inspection and the owner came out to greet me.  All 350 lbs. of her.  She said that she remembers me from years ago when she built a patio cover.  She insisted that I forced her to remove an open air shower from her back yard.  One comeback after another floated around in my head.  I realized that I should leave as soon as possible.


----------



## conarb

\ said:
			
		

> All 350 lbs. of her. She said that she remembers me from years ago when she built a patio cover. She insisted that I forced her to remove an open air shower from her back yard.


You were only doing a public service, the sight of a naked 350 pound woman taking a shower could cause death or injury, did she come out riding one of those motorized scooters we see the women of Wal Mart riding?


----------



## MtnArch

ICE said:
			
		

>


A 'Kalifornia' meth still?


----------



## ICE

It didn't start out strong.




It didn't finish strong.


----------



## conarb

Tiger:

You gotta get out of there.


----------



## Pcinspector1

I don't know ICE, that garage door angle steel is pretty stout!

pc1


----------



## ICE

The owner is a high school shop teacher.  I was surprised by that....I thought shop class went the same way as PE.  They should bring back Home Economics classes.  Pretty soon the only people that know how to do laundry will work at a dry cleaners.


----------



## ICE

Another one bites the dust.  The contractor came to the office and he was spitting mad.


----------



## ICE

The job is a conversion from two bedrooms to a bathroom and larger bedroom.  I wrote a few corrections at the rough inspection.  One of which was to set the outlets so that they will be flush with the drywall.  Some other inspector came back for the inspection of the rough inspection corrections.  I heard the contractor say, "But the other inspector approved it".  I said, "He must have been having a bad day.  That happens to all of us".

Today it's his turn.  There's not more than a dozen to fix and I hope he learns a lesson.


----------



## conarb

Tell me something Tiger, yesterday I went to see the owner of a home I built in the 70s, he's selling and having a new home built in Nevada, he claims that he's planning to sell some commercial real estate and by being a Nevada resident he'll save a million dollars alone not having to pay California capital gains taxes.  A home inspection required GFIs in the garage, there are no washers and dryers in this garage, it's just a garage, since when are GFIs required in garages, or is this just another stupid home inspector?


----------



## ICE

conarb said:
			
		

> A home inspection required GFIs in the garage, there are no washers and dryers in this garage, it's just a garage, since when are GFIs required in garages, or is this just another stupid home inspector?


It has been in the code for quite a while.  Even receptacles that are located in the ceiling.  I have been told that the next code cycle will exempt the ceiling receptacle.  I think there will be an exception for receptacles located over five feet from the floor.  I can't say for sure and it's not here yet.


----------



## conarb

Common Tiger, fess up, you have been bootlegging *as the inspector* on this one for the last 61 years.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Post #1624, should have got em for over cutting the box and leaving that gap!

pc1


----------



## ICE

At the first attempt to pass inspection for a service upgrade, another inspector wrote one correction.  The correction stated that a bonding fitting is needed where the GEC enters the enclosure.  I went there for the next inspection and wrote more corrections.  Six more and that included label the circuit breakers.

So this morning I get a phone call and the guy asked for the other inspector.  When He found out that the other inspector is not working today he asked for a different inspector....only to find out that the inspector has been transferred.  Then he thought: "Oh crap I have to deal with this inspector".

He starts out with, "I need clarification on some corrections"  Okay I said.  He says, "How come you wrote corrections on top of the other inspector's write up?"  "Can you even do that?"  I said, "I thought you wanted clarification of corrections but apparently you want validation of corrections".  Do you question whether the corrections are valid?"  "Yes" he says.  "I've never heard of bonding every end of the cable armor that protects the GEC."  "In all these years, I've never had to do that"




One of the corrections was to get rid of this jumper from the old service to this new service.  He told me that Edison told him to do this and he correctly named the Edison planner for this area.  He asked me how to keep power to the house without this jumper.

He knows the other inspectors.....he knows the Edison planner.....that tells me that he has been working as an unlicensed electrical contractor for too long.

I put him on hold and pulled the file.  The owner took out the permit.  I then asked this guy if he is a licensed electrical contractor.  He said that he is the brother in-law of the owner.  I asked him again if he was a licensed contractor and again he said that he is the brother in-law of the owner.

I told him to do the corrections as they are written and call for inspection and then said goodbye.


----------



## ICE

Just something that I noticed.




It's a restaurant.




I don't eat there.....but I don't suppose that matters.


----------



## ICE

This is a condensate draining into a riser for a cleanout.


----------



## ICE

I was filling in for another inspector today.  A Starbucks TI contractor called for final inspection.  They came out of the existing service to a 400 amp panel and also fed a 200 amp panel.  The T-bar ceiling is done and there is furniture in the store.










I wonder what they will do with the truss.

The other inspector won't be back until next Wednesday, and maybe not then.  The contractor asked me if he gets my list of corrections done, would I let him stock the store.  I'm not willing to sign anything on this one.  I didn't even sign the correction slip.

This is worth repeating.  I always ask for a disconnect on the outside of these fans.  It is rare that anyone complains about that.


----------



## mmmarvel

ICE - you've convinced me.  I once thought I wanted to be a building inspector, never quite made it.  Became a heck of a good (at least I thought I was good) special inspector for concrete, masonry, anchors, roofing, etc.  But when that job went away, I just knew I wanted to be a building inspector - after all, I had tons of certs, I had built up a pretty good way of dealing with contractors - but no, I ended up working at an airport where I busted contractor's chops over things like concrete slump, anchors, stuff I had done before.  That job ended up with me moving to facilities inspector, an area that I had 16 years of experience.  Bottom line, your pictures and reading about the crony nonsense that (sometimes) does go on - yeah, I'll keep looking up jobs for y'all, but I'll finish my days as a facilities inspector.


----------



## north star

*% = + = %*



Heck, ...I'm wondering when someone from liberal Bollywood is

going to contact the Tiger to see about a new "Really Reality T.V. Show."

Mike Holmes has got a new T.V. show on...

Them T.V. folks could really stir some piles of  %$@*&  with a "new"

Reality Show about construction........Heck, they have one for everything

else on the planet.

Now, ...for a name for this Reality T.V. Show \ Series........Let's see,

how `bout: *(1)*  The Adventures of the Tiger, ...*(2)*  The ICE Man Cometh,

...*(3)*  Are Construction Inspectors Really Needed,  ...*(4)*  Have Codes,

Will Travel,  ...*(5)*  So You Think You Know Construction Huh ?,  ...*(6)*  Who

Do I Need To Call,  ...*(7)*  Dancing With the Contractors [ he said with

tongue-in-cheek  ],  ...*(8)* Inspectors Am Us,  others.

What about it ICE, ...are you interested in a T.V. Reality Show \ Series ?

FWIW, ...you could include a reference to **The Brentster**  as a

Contractor out on the fringes...     :grin:

In Post # 1624, ...they could install junction box extenders and be

good to go !











*% = + = %*


----------



## conarb

I don't think the Tiger would want to get the butt implants, or get a sex change operation.


----------



## Paul Sweet

North Star, how about "Are You a Better Builder than a Fifth Grader"?


----------



## north star

*$ + $ + $*



Paul,

In the words of Jethro Bodine [ i.e. - of The Beverly Hillbillies fame  ],

..."Why heck yeah !"

Everything is on the `ol design table right now.......We just gotta

get The Tiger on board with this idea.







> "conarb stated:I don't think the Tiger would want to get the butt implants, or get a sex change operation."


Whoaa there **conarb**,  ...we don't wanna scare off any potentialinvestors or supporters just yet........That level of freakery

"may" be considered once the show \ series gets off the ground

and is well established in the various media markets.

Besides, ...the Tiger could always refer to **The Brentster**

as a level of freakery.........That danged skirt of his is going to get

him in trouble yet !





*$ * $ * $*


----------



## ICE

mmmarvel said:
			
		

> Bottom line, your pictures and reading about the crony nonsense that (sometimes) does go on - yeah, I'll keep looking up jobs for y'all, but I'll finish my days as a facilities inspector.


mmmarvel,  The fact that there are so many shoddy contractors out there is largely the fault of inspectors.  If inspectors hammered the bandit contractor's nuts every time they showed up, they would slowly fall away.  If the homeowners realized that the inspectors will make them keep doing it over until they get it right, they will not be looking for the cheapest, snot nosed, sniveler out there.

They will never do it correctly because they came to Jesus.  They will only do it the right way if we force them.  I don't care if they like me or what I do.  I don't care if they understand why I am making them do it over.  All I want out of it is my paycheck and I figure to give them their money's worth.

If the general public understood what they are getting for their permit fee there would be an uproar.  I see it daily.  It's not so completely messed up in some AHJs and there are some good people in the field but it's mostly a cruel hoax.  From the simple to the complex it all gets overlooked.


----------



## conarb

Tiger:

You are totally missing the whole point of building inspection, making money for the AHJ.


----------



## ICE

conarb said:
			
		

> Tiger:You are totally missing the whole point of building inspection, making money for the AHJ.


I don't think that I have met an AHJ employee that is looking to make money for the AHJ. Every AHJ employee I have met is looking to make money for themselves. That includes me. It is human nature and it's true of any job or profession. Unless your job title is fundraiser, you are your first priority.

Politicians and government administrators loathe building departments. We get in the way of their grand scheme. We create disgruntled constituents. We don't bring in enough money to offset the grief. Many building departments operate at a deficit.


----------



## ICE

Here's an example of contractor that earned a lump.  A big fat goose egg.  The site plan shows the carport at ten feet from the dwelling.  This is just under five feet.  There is no mention of the retaining wall.  I asked the contractor why he didn't follow the site plan and he said that the owner insisted that he put it here.


----------



## ICE




----------



## mmmarvel

ICE said:
			
		

> If inspectors hammered the bandit contractor's nuts every time they showed up, they would slowly fall away.


And THAT is why I'm pretty happy working as a Facilities Inspector at my airport.  I DO hammer on contractors each and every day (when they are doing it wrong).  Just fulfill your contract that's all I ask.  So why does that seem so hard??  Anyway, I absolutely LOVE your pictures, I love the way you merely present the facts and let the chips fall where they may.  I admire the integrity with which you do your job.  You are a true asset to the trade/craft - that said, don't let it go to your head.  Thanks for all you do both in the field and on this board.


----------



## ICE

mmmarvel said:
			
		

> don't let it go to your head.


Not to worry mmmarvel, Brent would notice that right away.


----------



## ICE

This job started out as the addition of an open room.  After the footing and slab was approved the work stopped...ten years ago.  Now there is a new permit and there will be two bedrooms with a bearing wall in the center.  It is also a braced wall and there was no footing.  The floor was cut open for the new footing.




They got lucky and missed all of the re-bar.


----------



## ICE




----------



## MASSDRIVER

mmmarvel said:
			
		

> Annoying sucking sound.


Just what the arrogant bastard needed.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> Just what the arrogant bastard needed. Brent.


Ya I knew you wouldn't be far behind.

I came across this arrogant bastard yesterday.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

That's just dirty pool right there.

Brent.


----------



## conarb

ICE said:
			
		

> Ya I knew you wouldn't be far behind.I came across this arrogant bastard yesterday.


But he's recycling just like the masters say, BTW, what's with the gimp slot in a residential neighborhood?  I haven't seen that before.


----------



## ICE

conarb said:
			
		

> But he's recycling just like the masters say, BTW, what's with the gimp slot in a residential neighborhood?  I haven't seen that before.


I have no clue how this person justified doing this.  I'm not going to ask either.  It probably keeps people from parking in front of the house.  My fathers answer to that is fire hydrants.  He bought two, one for each side of the house.  They are massive antiques from San Francisco.  Nobody parks in front of them....well I do.


----------



## conarb

ICE said:
			
		

> I have no clue how this person justified doing this.  I'm not going to ask either.  It probably keeps people from parking in front of the house.  My fathers answer to that is fire hydrants.  He bought two, one for each side of the house.  They are massive antiques from San Francisco.  Nobody parks in front of them....well I do.


Tiger:Actually those gimp slots are for idiots, imbeciles, and morons, there is plenty of room there to park their cars depending upon their mental stage, if you look at the chart below you can pretty much gauge where contractors and building inspectors fall.


Down at the bottom you will note idiot and low grade imbecile, they usually can't even pass the test to drive cars so they don't need gimp slots, those are the people you see riding around on bicycles.  I'm sure you recognize all these types during your daily rounds.

​
View attachment 1227


View attachment 1227


/monthly_2015_09/imbecile.jpg.709e516d307fb118663c95629cca35af.jpg


----------



## mmmarvel

ICE said:
			
		

> This job started out as the addition of an open room.  After the footing and slab was approved the work stopped...ten years ago.  Now there is a new permit and there will be two bedrooms with a bearing wall in the center.  It is also a braced wall and there was no footing.  The floor was cut open for the new footing.
> 
> 
> 
> They got lucky and missed all of the re-bar.


But it looks like the concrete missed the rebar too.  I mean is that one of the things you are showing?  Uh, the rebar is suppose to be in the concrete, not sitting below the concrete and I'm flipping confused.


----------



## steveray

Concrete didn't miss the rebar, landed squarely on top of it....DUH......


----------



## mtlogcabin

ICE said:
			
		

> Ya I knew you wouldn't be far behind.I came across this arrogant bastard yesterday.


We have 2 or 3 of these spot around our city, Council approved them for the individual residents because they no longer have access from the alley to their property and there is not enough room for a parking space in the front. Basically non conforming lots that where subdivide in the 20's and 30's through no fault of the current residents.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Inspector wrote up "Needs chairs" and the sap got a folding lawn chair and an ice tea and watched the pour!

You gotta be more specific when writing up your correction reports.

Pic #1648, I've seen it all now! Wheres the $500.00 fine sign?

pc1


----------



## ICE

mmmarvel said:
			
		

> But it looks like the concrete missed the rebar too. * I mean is that one of the things you are showing?*  Uh, the rebar is suppose to be in the concrete, not sitting below the concrete and I'm flipping confused.


Yes that was the point of the post.


----------



## conarb

I wonder if these planks *have grade stamps?*


----------



## Msradell

conarb said:
			
		

> I wonder if these planks *have grade stamps?*


I've seen the video before and I'm amazed every time I watch it!  The question I have is how in the world did they make the turn to get lined up with those planks?


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE must be preparing for the code hearings in Long Beach, gonna tear em a new one I suspect?  

pc1


----------



## ICE

I spent last week at the Solar Power International show at the Anaheim convention center.

Many dollars were wasted on drinking fountians.  Nobody uses them and there was an expectation that there would be a herd of people using wheelchairs.




The carpet is Brent proof.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Nothing is really Brent proof. Maybe somewhat Brent resistant.

That's mostly just camouflage.

Brent.


----------



## conarb

Come to think of it I haven't see a water drinking fountain in years, I thought they went away with low flush toilets and low  flow faucets.


----------



## Msradell

conarb said:
			
		

> Come to think of it I haven't see a water drinking fountain in years, I thought they went away with low flush toilets and low  flow faucets.


That's because you guys in California keep expanding in an area that doesn't have any water!  You try to steal it from everybody in the Southwest and they are finally fighting back.  Some of us in other parts of the country have abundant sources of water.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Msradell said:
			
		

> That's because you guys in California keep expanding in an area that doesn't have any water!  You try to steal it from everybody in the Southwest and they are finally fighting back.  Some of us in other parts of the country have abundant sources of water.


Not really.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_in_California

Brent.


----------



## Francis Vineyard

This was submitted by an inspector here;


----------



## Msradell

Francis Vineyard said:
			
		

> This was submitted by an inspector here;


That picture was posted on DSL Reports a couple of weeks ago.  It got some really funny comments.


----------



## TheCommish

I hope they know to use very short screws, the surprised look  on their face  if a 3" was used is call ark flash


----------



## steveray

ICE said:
			
		

> I spent last week at the Solar Power International show at the Anaheim convention center.Many dollars were wasted on drinking fountians.  Nobody uses them and there was an expectation that there would be a herd of people using wheelchairs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The carpet is Brent proof.


All of those are a violation....Have them rip em out....

1003.3.3 Horizontal projections.

Structural elements, fixtures or furnishings shall not project horizontally from either side more than 4 inches (102 mm) over any walking surface between the heights of 27 inches (686 mm) and 80 inches (2032 mm) above the walking surface.

Exception: Handrails are permitted to protrude 41/2 inches (114 mm) from the wall.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Steveray is right, a blind person could run into to those, that's why we usually see them inset!

Someone got big bucks for doing that review and is probably retired and suck'in down a retirement pension.

Good catch!


----------



## Pcinspector1

Pic #1666, new electrical Shark-bite" I suspect?

pc1


----------



## Francis Vineyard

We've allow the installation of partitions (barriers) or rails (guards) that projects from the wall or floor beyond and on both sides of the drinking fountains as detectable warnings; see 307.4 for details in accordance with section 103.


----------



## ICE

He is a contractor and Flipper is his name.  The permit is for a bathroom remodel and taking part of the living room to enlarge the master bedroom.  I was there for the final and noticed that all of the lights, switches and receptacles have been replaced....without a permit.

Well I went looking for the ARC fault protection at the service panel.  Oh my what a mess that is.




The box on the right is a disconnect for the HVAC that is on the roof.  It won't open because the door hits the service front cover.  There is #6 wire coming from a 100 amp breaker in the service panel.



There is no dead front cover and even if there were, the #12 GEC is in the way.







Any bets out there that they will claim that it was all done under a permit.


----------



## ICE

I hate to see this.  What else can they do?  The shingles are old and so brittle that getting under them is out of the question...but that's not what bothers me.




The kid doing the work is doing okay considering what he has to work with.


----------



## ICE

Too much of a good thing.


----------



## ICE

Another flipper tells me that this water heater was there when he purchased the house.  He swears that there is a permit on file for a water heater.  I told him that is entirely possible but it's just not this water heater.




conarb said: [URL='https://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/goto/post?id=199140#post-199140']↑
A few years ago, I believe it was in Marin County, an inspector was on a roof and a contractor happened to drive by and see him, he turned him into CalOSHA and it made all the papers. If it was me I wouldn't have done that, I would have taken a picture with my cell phone, the next time Tiger came by one of my jobs and wrote my up I'd whip out my cell phone, show him the picture, and say: "Now Tiger you don't really want to write me up do you?"[/URL]

They installed a flush beam which opened up the living room to the kitchen ....without a permit.  They also dry-walled all of the lids.  The permit that they have now obtained is for a kitchen remodel.  I made them remove a 12'x4' section of the lid so that I can see what's been done.  All along they have claimed that the only electrical work is in the kitchen.




That elephant's trunk worth of Romex in the background is a bunch of cut ends and is abandoned wiring.  I was told that, oh there was some electrical work done after all...as in a complete rewire.

The guy that I am dealing with is a sleazy, smarmy azzhole.  He keeps calling me boss.  "Yes sir boss"  "What can we do next boss".  That is such a tell that he has done some serious cell time.  I want to...well you know.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Post #1673,

What...."grounding to the water spigot", that's how it's done in Esparto,

ask Brent!


----------



## Mech

Post #1673

A little above and behind the service head - is that conduit and three wires cut flush with the side of the house?


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> Post #1673, What...."grounding to the water spigot", that's how it's done in Esparto,
> 
> ask Brent!


There's no duct tape on it, and that's not baling wire.

Must be some fancy uptown electrical contractor puttin' on airs, showin' off and whatnot.

Brent.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:
			
		

> I was there for the final and noticed that all of the lights, switches and receptacles have been replaced....without a permit.


Do you guys really require a permit to replace lights, switches and receptacles?  I understand that they should be required for installation of new recessed lights or possibly even a replacement but for other lighting, switches and receptacles it certainly sounds like an overkill and a rule that I would never follow!


----------



## ICE

Msradell said:
			
		

> Do you guys really require a permit to replace lights, switches and receptacles?  I understand that they should be required for installation of new recessed lights or possibly even a replacement but for other lighting, switches and receptacles it certainly sounds like an overkill and a rule that I would never follow!


Shirley you will see the light.  The receptacles will require ARC fault protection and the lights must meet the energy code.  The switches will end up being replaced with dimmer switches for most rooms.  So of course they wouldn't know any of that if they didn't get a permit.  And even then, they wouldn't know any of that until they get an inspection.

Sad but true.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:
			
		

> Shirley you will see the light.  The receptacles will require ARC fault protection and the lights must meet the energy code.  The switches will end up being replaced with dimmer switches for most rooms.  So of course they wouldn't know any of that if they didn't get a permit.  And even then, they wouldn't know any of that until they get an inspection.Sad but true.


While the items that you brought up would apply during a complete retrofit of a home they wouldn't apply for general replacement of receptacles, switches and many light fixtures would it?  If it does no matter what its intent is it's a stupid requirement.


----------



## e hilton

Do you require the goofy tamper proof receptacles?  And the comment about dimmers ... are you saying the switches need to be replaced with dimmers?


----------



## MASSDRIVER

TR receptacles are now required.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

The dimwits will install dimmers because they didn't install high efficacy fixtures.


----------



## ICE

A guy called this morning to find out what time I would be showing up for an inspection.  I gave him a two hour window and he asked me if he had to be there.  The job is solar with a service upgrade so I said that he must be there to open everything.  Normally, I will remove deadfronts but solar companies are a little to scary even for me.

I get there and the contractor's employee isn't there.  An elderly woman answered the door.  I explained that the only part of the inspection that will be done today is the smoke and co alarms.  She said "Ruben had to be at another job so he showed me which screws to remove and gave me a screwdriver".

I have Ruben's screwdriver.


----------



## ICE

This will be a difficult job from start to finish.  There's going to be 500 square feet of kitchen, bathroom and bedroom.  They called for under-slab plumbing inspection.  They misunderstood the concept of "under-slab" and everything finishes out under the finish floor.




I asked him where the building drain that I can see connects to the rest of the building drain.  He said that the connection is at the front of the house.  I couldn't get him to explain how that was accomplished but I did ask that all of the waste pipe be exposed for inspection.

There is a service panel right in the middle of it.  It was placed where there was a window.  There is Romex popping out of the wall.  Before the start of the work there was an enclosed patio that has been removed.  So the Romex was not exposed to the weather.




I gave a notice to install a temporary power pole.




What I should have done is make them move to Motel Six.


----------



## ICE

The overhang is being replaced because it fell off of the building.  The ledgers had only nails holding them to the building.  Now there are lag bolts.




They can't tell me what these ducts are serving and there is no means to ventilate the space.


----------



## ICE

The Strong Wall is lagged to the shim.


----------



## Pcinspector1

I've heard of "Rubic's cube" but not "Ruben's screwdriver!

Pc1


----------



## ICE

Yes we have no permit.




This guy got camera shy.


----------



## ICE

This is the first time that I have seen these dampers on a residential furnace




I'm not so sure that hanging the equipment from the top piece of sheet metal is a good idea.


----------



## JPohling

Nice work shoes!  on the guy on the roof!


----------



## ICE

This is a few house away from the re-roof.




I'm going to try to get one of those T-shirts for Brent....what do you say there Brent....size 16 to 18....what color matches your dress?




The truck load is the roof structure of an addition that they decided to remove and replace and whatever was between the kitchen and living room.



The owner was shocked to learn that permits are required.  He said that the addition was permitted years ago and shouldn't need another permit to replace it.

I probably should have asked if the furnace has been replaced.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE, What are you doing inspecting in Esparto...arn't you out of your jurisdiction?

And it's not a skirt....it's a framing kilt!


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICC,

I'm pretty sure the furnace support is required below the furnace by strut or angle iron, might want to check with RUDD install instructions.

Never seen it done that way, but the local HVAC guys would't have pulled a permit anyway.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE, Sorry for calling you ICC, typing issue on my part.

pc1


----------



## ICE

The original correction said that a 12 awg wire can't be on a 40 amp circuit.  It was also a cable in a wet location.  So they switched it out for this.







The owner was surprised that they don't know what they don't know.

This is the owner's patio cover.




That post has a slight lean.


----------



## e hilton

Whats wrong with the electric panel?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:
			
		

> Whats wrong with the electric panel?


The white wire that has been used for an equipment ground is a violation.  Equipment grounds can be bare, green, or yellow with a green stripe.  White is for neutral conductors and only neutral conductors however, not all neutral conductors are white.  The wire is also a waste of copper in that it is not required to be larger than #10, but that's not a code violation.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Would or could you allow the white wire if it had green tape at the ends?....cricket sounds?...

pc1


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> Would or could you allow the white wire if it had green tape at the ends?....cricket sounds?...pc1


Wire smaller than #4 shall not be re-identified.  If it were a solid wire I would not be opposed to stripping the insulation for the entire exposed length.


----------



## ICE

There is a service upgrade with the Edison drop running across the neighbors garage roof.  It is less than 3' above the garage roof.  Edison spotted the meter where it is so apparently Edison has no concern about the proximity to the neighbors roof.  I wrote a correction that the drop has to be 8' above the garage roof.




At some point, an Edison crew will be making a hook-up.  The next picture is the neighbor's service.  I will wait to see if Edison has anything to say about that.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE, I think you made the right call, the roof looks less than 4/12p in the picture. Greater than 4/12p could allow the drop to be 3ft.

The mast will look like dog dodo when it's all said and done, but that's the code.

pc1


----------



## ICE

The right side of the tower could have been a little cricket.

At least there's not a bunch of scaffold waiting to collapse.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Some poor sap actually got up on that. Shortly to be followed by more saps.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

This is just north of Chico, Ca.  They must not be in a recognized seismic zone.  There have been earthquakes in the area.




I would have a hard time working in an area that doesn't have earthquakes....things look like they are incomplete.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

We should go to Sierra Nevada brewery and get smashed and tell lies about how good we are.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> We should go to Sierra Nevada brewery and get smashed and tell lies about how good we are. Brent.


I am back home in southern Ca.  I used to put away plenty of beer with a guy named Brent when I worked in Chico. Nowadays it's more like a chocolate shake at Denny's.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> I am back home in southern Ca.  I used to put away plenty of beer with a guy named Brent when I worked in Chico. Nowadays it's more like a chocolate shake at Denny's.


The world is a cruel place.

Brent. (The other one).


----------



## ICE

This is my fault.  I should have caught this at rough inspection.  There is no way to place the laundry equipment without the dryer sitting in front of the panel.  I wrote a slew of corrections on this job.  The owner tried to have me replaced...more than once.  And now this.  I told him that I made the mistake and I'm not going to make him correct it.  That's awful huh.  The damned thing won't be dangerous until someone has to work on the inside of the panel but that's no excuse for missing it.  I just looked at the file...45 corrections have been written so far.


----------



## JCraver

ICE said:
			
		

> I just looked at the file...45 corrections have been written so far.


Was one of them that guardrail in the background?


----------



## ICE

JCraver said:
			
		

> Was one of them that guardrail in the background?


That didn't take long at all.  And yes it is at 28" high at the nose of the tread.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:
			
		

> That didn't take long at all.  And yes it is at 28" high at The nose of the tread.


The spacing of the spindles also looks to be too wide.


----------



## ICE

Msradell said:
			
		

> The spacing of the spindles also looks to be too wide.


----------



## ICE

Okay, so you're there for a sheathing inspection....what catches your attention?


----------



## ICE

I almost always have to dig through crap to see the work.  Sometimes it's like I'm on an alien planet.

When there are slotted washers there shall be a cut washer under the nut.


----------



## ICE

There's a lot of paint on that pipe.




This guy had it fixed in no time.  Now had he been a kilt aficionado, and that's not what you are thinking fatboy, well I would have said get it fixed and call me back.  But no....this guy was almost in pants so I stuck around while he fixed it.   It was a little bit nerve wracking when a helicopter started circling.


----------



## mtlogcabin

> Okay, so you're there for a sheathing inspection....what catches your attention?


Is that black soot, or burnt galvanize around the "B" vent opening?


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Is that black soot, or burnt galvanize around the "B" vent opening?


You're pretty darn good for an desk jockey.  It is from soot.  I brought the lady outside and showed it to her.  She said that it is from two years ago when the wall furnace malfunctioned and was repaired.  I couldn't get close to it because the roof is too steep for me to walk.

The lady was different than most.  She reminded me of a someone from my past.

Years ago I owned a Union 76.  I had three bays of mechanics working 24 hours a day.  One day a lady pulled up to the full serve island.  I worked that island quite often and she was as white as Conarb.  She had jet black hair, too much red lipstick and oh my gosh was she wrinkled.  Well she looked like a poorly prepared corpse.  Turns out that she became a regular customer.  I gave her the knickname Dead Lady.

One winter day she drove up and asked if we could do a brake job on her car.  I went into the shop and said, "Can any of you mechanics do a brake job on the Dead Lady's car.  A few of them turned and looked at me but nobody said anything.  From behind me I heard her say, "The Dead Lady?"


----------



## JPohling

No, that was Dear Lady...................not Dead Lady....................


----------



## ICE




----------



## MASSDRIVER

/\  People just can't seem to get that one right.

Brent.


----------



## mmmarvel

ICE said:
			
		

>


Um, wow, you just keep making me realize how NICE my cushy job as a facilities inspector at an airport is - thanks for the reminder.


----------



## cda

View attachment 1237


I told you we were to close to the utility easement!!!
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 1237


/monthly_2015_10/572953d883b24_wires.JPG.c0aae64e3eaca9bf14e957cd11e7790d.JPG


----------



## cda

wire 2............

View attachment 1238


View attachment 1238


/monthly_2015_10/wires2.JPG.599457f6c906ab555ec624d3bc6545d4.JPG


----------



## steveray

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> /\  People just can't seem to get that one right.Brent.


Looks like a CC sinker.....maybe if they had used a common nail....?


----------



## ICE

My day for water heaters.  I had an inspection request for a water heater inspection at an apartment complex but the permit and the inspection request slip do not have a unit number.  So I went looking.  I found the three boilers agua caliente. But the one I needed was in an apartment.




A friendly tenant took me around the each apartment until a lady said, Si Senior I have boiler agua caliente new.  It is this one.


----------



## ICE

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> /\  People just can't seem to get that one right.Brent.


This is the hanger that is called out on the plans.




Obviously that would not work so I suggested that additional pier and posts would solve the problem.  But they left out the 18"x18"x18" footing which they have on all of the other posts.


----------



## ICE

When they say that I am picky, they might be right.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE, I prefer the one that was called out on the plans!

Your new design just does't quite do it for me.


----------



## jdfruit

In post 1731, it appears to be a neutral bar, and if so ICE has a valid reason to be picky about the installation shown.


----------



## ICE

jdfruit,

I'm pleased that you were able to retire but I miss being able to learn a thing or two when you came around the forum.

This is me being picky again.


----------



## linnrg

Existing!!!!!  Pretty much covers that old pesky labeling of the panel thing!


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE really needs to either throttle back pictures of the crapgasms, or put some sort of warning in the header.

If I inhale another damn cocktail olive out of my exquisite Tito's vodka (shaken to death, with tasty ice cap) from the visual shock I'm gonna strait die from hypoxia.

Brent.


----------



## conarb

What the Tiger doesn't seem to get is that the public just doesn't care about those things he shows us, a recent Chapman University study shows that American's are most afraid of Government Corruption by a long shot, here is a list :



			
				\ said:
			
		

> Corruption of Government Officials    Government    58.0%Cyber-terrorism    Technology    44.8%
> 
> Corporate Tracking of Personal Information    Technology    44.6%
> 
> Terrorist Attacks    Man-Made Disasters    44.4%
> 
> Government Tracking of Personal Information    Technology    41.4%
> 
> Bio-Warfare    Man-Made Disasters    40.9%
> 
> Identity Theft    Crime    39.6%
> 
> Economic Collapse    Man-Made Disasters    39.2%
> 
> Running of out Money in the Future    Personal Future    37.4%
> 
> Credit Card Fraud    Crime    36.9%
> 
> Items that ranked above climate change included corruption, mass surveillance, cyber-terrorism, bio-warfare, identity theft, running out of money, economic collapse, credit card fraud, Obamacare, illness, nuclear attack, meltdowns and civil unrest and tornadoes.¹


Our esteemed emperor has now stated that Climate Change was his biggest fear, note that the public fears Obamacare more than it does illness with good reason when over 400,000 people die in America every year from medical malpractice. Also note that the public doesn't even care about the risk of buildings collapsing or burning down, but with 58% of us our biggest fear is government corruption.

¹ http://boingboing.net/2015/10/25/americans-are-pretty-mellow-ab.html


----------



## MtnArch

ICE said:
			
		

>


Are there spinning neon lights that go behind the plastic face when the power is on?


----------



## ICE

jdfruit said:
			
		

> In post 1731, it appears to be a neutral bar, and if so ICE has a valid reason to be picky about the installation shown.


What I was picking on is that the wire isn't showing on both sides of the lug.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Post #1734, That plastic blank should be labeled "Future"


----------



## jdfruit

ICE said:
			
		

> What I was picking on is that the wire isn't showing on both sides of the lug.


Exactly what I was concerned with. Now, is it a neutral or equipment ground bar? If neutral, then bare wire not allowed.


----------



## ICE

jdfruit said:
			
		

> Exactly what I was concerned with. Now, is it a neutral or equipment ground bar? If neutral, then bare wire not allowed.


There you go! I did not know that.  What code section applies....or just the general area and I will find it....maybe.  It's amazing what I don't know.  Well at least I know that I don't know.







Who would drive a ground rod right next to a gas pipe.....one little slip and goodbye gas pipe.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

A little cross threading goes a long way.

Brent.


----------



## steveray

200.6 maybe ICE.....?


----------



## Mech

> It's amazing what I don't know.  Well at least I know that I don't know.


Well, to go along with what you said: I know what I know.  I know what I don't know.  But I don't know what I don't know.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

I know you don't know what I know I don't know.

Know what I mean?

Brent


----------



## ICE

There was a new inspector on-board that was not sure of himself.  That was for good reason because he had no construction experience.  He had been selling windows and doors prior to becoming certified in three categories and getting the job as a building inspector.

An inspection in his assigned area had him spooked.  I don't recall what it was about but he asked the office manager what he should do.  He was told, and this is absolute truth, he was told to look serious, peruse the plans, walk the job and then sign the job card.

About four years later that inspector was "seasoned" and qualified for a senior position at a different AHJ.  He lasted only a few months at that job because they don't check plans for anything and he was at a loss.  So he was off to another AHJ where he fell off a roof.  Last I heard, he was selling doors and windows.

Not to alarm the public that might see this, but this is probably not all that unusual.  Yes folks it is sad but true.....most window salesmen have a limp.

The stark reality is that the logo for plenty of government agencies should be:


----------



## MASSDRIVER

To bad for the guy. I've tried to think objectively about what makes a good inspector. Oddly enough I don't include experience in the trades, and here is why; It is a common refrain amongst contractors, if they have problems they just say the inspector is young, or has no experience, or doesn't understand. This is usually because they were not allowed to get away with something, usually something difficult to do, so they just skated it. Sometimes they rely on some Good 'ol Boy former broke dick contractor/tradesman to "understand", you know, things ain't what they used to be.

I worked with an inspector in Sacramento, a guy named Richard Leaker. That's right. DickLeaker. This was when I was a construction manager for Lennar. Sometimes we would get caught on an item real close to an H.O. closing, and things would turn into a furball. I might do some whining and groveling to get my way, but Dickleaker would just say "Level of difficulty is not my concern. Are you a pro or a pretender?"

I loved that dude. I wanted to stab him in the throat a few times, but he was cool and taught me a lot. He liked to tell me to go sit in his truck with the codebook and if I could find the code that would let me do what I wanted to do, he would pass whatever it was. I think I got him maybe twice.

But to the point, he was experienced, but didn't really "understand" your plight. Some guys are a little weak on that. That's why I think it's more important they the inspector be well educated. They need to know their shlt. Not just be certified. I mean be educated.

The times I can think of where it experience is an advantage is when some detail is basically impossible to do, so you have to do a workaround. It's not deficient, not crap work, but just different than the detail. Then it's good to have a guy that can look at your work and either approve it or not based on experience or common sense, not some black far off stare and a retarded "you can't do that".

Also to ICE's point, just because you have some tangent connection to building does not mean you have the slightest business at all either building, or inspecting someone else's work. Sales is it's own thing. Stay with it.

Brent.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:
			
		

> Yes folks it is sad but true.....most window salesmen have a limp


That pretty funny right there!


----------



## ICE

I agree with much of what you said Brent but nothing beats experience for "understanding your plight".  Experience sees that purple thumbnail and knows the feeling. Experience knows if a piddling correction is worth the trouble when a bunch of shear wall has to come off.  Experience knows better than to write an impossible correction and walk away.

Education is certainly of utmost importance.  After all, if the inspector doesn't recognize a violation, what good is he?  I do know smart, educated inspectors that have no construction experience.  They are every bit as good at spotting violations as the guys that have construction experience.  It's just that I am biased because I've had my share of purple thumbs.


----------



## rogerpa

> It's just that I am biased because I've had my share of purple thumbs.


ICE, hold your hammer with both hands. Problem solved.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

I don't think that they teach Science at that school.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

They are dangerously close to being taught science.

Brent.


----------



## conarb

Since when did you take a job in Mexico?  Surely those pictures are not in the USSA/


----------



## mtlogcabin

Inspector went back east to visit his elderly parents and this is what he found when the dryer took forever to dry the laundry.
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 1240


View attachment 1241


View attachment 1240


View attachment 1241


/monthly_2015_11/572953d88cd00_dryerduct.jpg.c549d9404bd0b5041ac37a1e396b0955.jpg

/monthly_2015_11/572953d88ff1b_Dryerduct2.jpg.780e051b6ee6f31e75f2e9674c7a36cd.jpg


----------



## ICE

That is awful.  I guess I will have to move my dryer and have a look.  At least it is the dryer and not the washer.  I better do it when I am home alone or I will be doing it once a month.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

I get my yearly carbon monoxide poisoning by taking the leaf blower upstairs and blasting that sucker to the outside. Works like a charm, and I can usually start breathing again after a couple of days. No biggie.

I get a 5 gallon bucket of lint just about every time.

Brent


----------



## Pcinspector1

How do you get lint from a leather kilt?


----------



## ICE

You know it was some guy that did this.  Now if was only him that could get killed, I'm not so sure that I would be against letting him keep it.




I was there to approve the application of a roof covering over an existing single layer of roof covering.




But uh oh there's more than one.  I can usually tell from the ground but this one looked great.  Walking on it was a clue that there were more than one layer.


----------



## mtlogcabin

Sill plate bolted down then add shim and set prefab wall on top. Do you think something might be wrong with this method in a seismic zone "D"?
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 1244


View attachment 1244


/monthly_2015_11/572953d898a2f_treelineshear.jpg.78f977ced2c8e14b41bf48ed1b0ee034.jpg


----------



## TheCommish

after they retro the appropriate  epoxy bolts,  plates and washers on the inside it will be fine


----------



## ICE

What if the full sheet of osb reached the bottom plate?  The Barricade is a bit short as well.


----------



## mtlogcabin

ICE said:
			
		

> What if the full sheet of osb reached the bottom plate?  The Barricade is a bit short as well.


That is what is called out on the drawings and what we typically see. This is a 3 story apartment. The engineer is working on a fix. It is always a challenge when new contractors/framers come in from out of the area. They never seem to follow the details on the plans.


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> That is what is called out on the drawings and what we typically see. This is a 3 story apartment. The engineer is working on a fix. It is always a challenge when new contractors/framers come in from out of the area. They never seem to follow the details on the plans.


There is also the shim to consider.  It looks like the shim is not continuous.  It may be missing only at the anchor bolts and that wouldn't be a big deal. If it is more than that it should be installed.  Drilling and installing epoxy anchors is simple enough but I always wonder if the top row of re-bar is being damaged.  How did they get by with 2x plate on a three story building?  The edge distance on the osb nails is a little close too.


----------



## mtlogcabin

> How did they get by with 2x plate on a three story building?


2304.3.1 Bottom plates.

Studs shall have full bearing on a 2-inch-thick (actual 11/2-inch, 38 mm) or larger plate or sill having a width at least equal to the width of the studs.


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> 2304.3.1 Bottom plates.Studs shall have full bearing on a 2-inch-thick (actual 11/2-inch, 38 mm) or larger plate or sill having a width at least equal to the width of the studs.


The structure is engineered from foundation up so if the numbers work it is doable.  However, I have never seen a three story with less than 3x plates and typically, all of the first floor wall framing is 3x.  After a certain shear loading per lineal foot, or if it is sheathed on both sides a shear wall has 3x plate.  Shirley it seems odd.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

The shim is probably there to clear the nut and washer. That's why it's intermitant. Just a guess.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

Retrofit windows in a new framed wall.  I will be hearing from the office manager.  There were no plans available and I didn't do the framing inspection so I'm not sure about the entire wall being an opening.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Last few times I did that there were moment frames involved.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

I suspect that there have been unauthorized alterations.




The tracer wire starts out wrapped around the pipe and then it meanders.  The trench is 12" deep so finding the pipe would be easy enough.





I've not seen this before now.


----------



## ICE

They couldn't find the installation instructions so I wrote a correction that said one inch isn't enough.





One inch is enough for B-vent and 18" works for single wall.  And how about that P-trap.  Oh and you forgot to do something with the secondary condensate drain.


----------



## Phil

Did they use the single wall vent to heat the PVC pipe to make the trap


----------



## ICE

The contractor cussed at me over the phone because he wasn't getting an inspection time that suited him.  Unfortunately, this valley is cut from the wrong side so I will have to deal with him some more.


----------



## fatboy

aaaa, how is it that the valley is cut in the wrong direction? Code section?


----------



## ICE

fatboy said:
			
		

> aaaa, how is it that the valley is cut in the wrong direction? Code section?


Installation instructions.  The valley shall be cut from the high side or largest expanse.


----------



## tmurray

That very well be the worst roof shingle job I've ever seen. Those shingles aren't even close to lining up...


----------



## JCraver

That's a common correction from me, and a common leak if I don't catch it.  At some point I'm confident that all the roofers will finally get this figured out...  :lol:


----------



## Pcinspector1

Post #1774

ICE, Make sure those ridge shingles aren't facing towards the prevailing wind!

pc1


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Valley flashing. It's the right way.

Brent.


----------



## Paul Sweet

Valley flashing isn't always the right way.

View attachment 1251


View attachment 1251


/monthly_2015_11/572953d964725_ValleyFlashing.jpg.ba0974d1f25ea10c2b0a8ca945dc9778.jpg


----------



## Msradell

Paul Sweet said:
			
		

> Valley flashing isn't always the right way.


At least they didn't forget to install Valley flashing!


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Paul Sweet said:
			
		

> Valley flashing isn't always the right way.


It's always funny when they just don't understand the concept.

Brent


----------



## ICE

Here's another contractor that can't conceptualize.  I should put that on the correction notice.  I could tell them that Brent made me do it.




The all-thread is supposed to be an HD anchor.




I worked on a Marriott hotel in Sacramento.  It is multistory wood.  There are huge anchors near the elevators.  They are 6' long and 1.5" in diameter with large steel plates and jamb nuts.  Well they came up short by several inches so the contractor un-threaded them....right out of those big steel plates and jamb nuts.


----------



## ICE

Now this guy understood the concept.....he just didn't know what to do about it.


----------



## ICE

Yet again there is an illegal ecosystem.  Although it is not within my purview, I wrote a correction to get the muck outta here.  The owner called to complain.  He said that it has been like that for years and the Health Dept. knows about it because they come by every few months and restock those mosquito eating fish.


----------



## ICE

A flush beam has been installed.  The plans call for a 4"x10" beam over the window.  I really doubt that there is a 4"x10" over the window and the contractor didn't bother to find out.


----------



## ICE

The permit is for a new cleanout.  I knew there was more to the story so In asked for a camera run.  They requested inspection twice more without a camera.  Here we are on the fourth inspection and they didn't ream the fused joint of the liner that they installed.







I was going to wait for the correction to be completed so that you could tell the difference....but I don't think that they will do the correction.


----------



## conarb

I've never seen an inspector look at a sewer line (of course I've never seen an inspector who goes by the name "Tiger" either), at least around here that comes under the purview of the sewer district, doesn't your jurisdiction end 5' beyond the home? When we are building on spetic tanks, and there is no sewer district, then the inspection comes under the septic tank permit, under some county department, the last one was inspected by "The Department of Environmental Health".


----------



## ICE

Our jurisdiction stops at the property line.


----------



## conarb

ICE said:
			
		

> Our jurisdiction stops at the property line.


While that's true the jurisdiction of the building code you are enforcing stops 5' from the permitted structure.  In your AHJ don't you have a different department that inspects septic tanks?  Don't you have a sanitary district that inspects sewers?


----------



## tmurray

We inspect sewer, storm, and water connections here. They're usually done at either our pre-footing inspection or our pre-backfill inspection, so it saves on having someone from utilities do it.

Our plumbing code extends to the property line, but we inspect based on requirements of the municipality (mostly just materials connected to the right place)


----------



## ICE

conarb said:
			
		

> While that's true the jurisdiction of the building code you are enforcing stops 5' from the permitted structure.  In your AHJ don't you have a different department that inspects septic tanks?  Don't you have a sanitary district that inspects sewers?


I didn't know about the five feet from the building.

We do inspect septic systems...but I have looked at only a few.

We do have a Sewer District but the building sewer is ours and it goes all the way to the property line.


----------



## conarb

I don't know where I get the 5' from, it's what we've always done, extend the sewer out 5" and cap it, then do rough plumbing testing with a 10' head.  After the inspector has signed off the rough we have the sewer contractor trench, remove the cap, and hook up the sewer in the middle of the street. The sewage district inspects everything and the plumbing inspector doesn't look back, they are the ones who run the TV cameras through the sewer, the AHJ doesn't own own TV cameras.  Another thing, at the 5' point we used to install an aluminum domed vent, this could be taken off and either a camera or a snake could be inserted from there, I haven't seen those domed vents for years, were they a code requirement or a sewage district requirement?


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:
			
		

> Here's another contractor that can't conceptualize.  I should put that on the correction notice.  I could tell them that Brent made me do it.
> 
> 
> 
> The all-thread is supposed to be an HD anchor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I worked on a Marriott hotel in Sacramento.  It is multistory wood.  There are huge anchors near the elevators.  They are 6' long and 1.5" in diameter with large steel plates and jamb nuts.  Well they came up short by several inches so the contractor un-threaded them....right out of those big steel plates and jamb nuts.


Am I my looking at those wrong or other form boards put up as if he is going to pour the entire backyard as a slab since the taller side of the forms are towards the hole?  I guess I'm missing what he's trying to do.


----------



## ICE

Msradell said:
			
		

> Am I my looking at those wrong or other form boards put up as if he is going to pour the entire backyard as a slab since the taller side of the forms are towards the hole?  I guess I'm missing what he's trying to do.


Yes Ma'am, you are looking at it wrong.  It will be a raised foundation.


----------



## ICE

It is difficult to believe that a licensed contractor did this.

There was a wall.  It was a bearing wall supporting ceiling joists from two rooms.




There is now a pair of 2"x8" sitting on top of the spot where there was a wall.








The kickers are attached to the ceiling joist.  The purlin brace might be all that holds up the 2"x8"s.

About half of a messed up furnace install is sitting on the joists.


----------



## ICE

There's quite a bit of work here.  It looks pretty good.  It's too damned bad that it has to come out.  You see, they didn't see the detail that shows the footing 24" into undisturbed soul.  So they are 16' to 18" deep.

I have encountered this hundreds of times.  Yes I said hundreds.  It is because the detail is small and the writing is tiny and the info is nowhere else on the plans.  Hell, sometimes I have to search for it.  I have asked that there be a big warning on the foundation page.  Apparently that would be too much trouble, but doing all of this work over is no big deal.


----------



## JCraver

ICE said:
			
		

> It is difficult to believe that a licensed contractor did this.There was a wall.  It was a bearing wall supporting ceiling joists from two rooms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is now a pair of 2"x8" sitting on top of the spot where there was a wall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The kickers are attached to the ceiling joist.  The purlin brace might be all that holds up the 2"x8"s.
> 
> About half of a messed up furnace install is sitting on the joists.


At least he was smart enough to know there should be a beam there.  Right idea, ****-poor execution.


----------



## conarb

\ said:
			
		

> There's quite a bit of work here. It looks pretty good. It's too damned bad that it has to come out. You see, they didn't see the detail that shows the footing 24" into undisturbed soul. So they are 16' to 18" deep.I have encountered this hundreds of times. Yes I said hundreds. It is because the detail is small and the writing is tiny and the info is nowhere else on the plans. Hell, sometimes I have to search for it. I have asked that there be a big warning on the foundation page. Apparently that would be too much trouble, but doing all of this work over is no big deal.


You know what gets me about your pictures Tiger is that we are both in California, since the advent of the 1998 CBC we can't get a building department to approve anything without an engineer's stamp, all engineers want drilled pier and grade beam foundations, those piers go down a minimum of 5'.  About that time I had to build an addition on a home and as usual the engineer designed a pier and grade beam foundation, I went to him making the argument that since the house was a "T Foundation" the addition should be the same because of differential settlement, I lost the argument because the engineer maintained that the T foundation under the home had been there for over 30 years and was done settling, you don't want to use a T under the addition since it will settle.

Just do as they do here and demand an engineer's stamp, arguing that they always pull the code sections R301.1.3 and R301.1.3.3.1, and anything other than a square box they call irregular.  You're just too easy.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Maybe there's a steel fletch plate sandwiched between the 2x's...nah..I don't thank so.

Stand on it and jump up and down, maybe they crowned the beam and there's no deflection?? He..He...He  

Does Simpson make #5 sky hooks anymore?


----------



## ICE

ICE said:
			
		

> Retrofit windows in a new framed wall.  I will be hearing from the office manager.  There were no plans available and I didn't do the framing inspection so I'm not sure about the entire wall being an opening.


Ok then.  New construction windows were installed.  Trouble is they've only ever installed retrofit windows and have never done lath before now.  The guy that is the boss is a Dandy.  He makes it sound like he's been in business forever.


----------



## ICE

Sometimes I just don't want to say no.

But they force me.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Screw missing or the bundling of wires?

Is the spare allowed to be taped off or do you require wire nuts?

Pretty


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> Screw missing or the bundling of wires?Is the spare allowed to be taped off or do you require wire nuts?
> 
> Pretty


Mounted over a hole in the exterior wall.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ooooh! yes that is a problem, apparently the old panel was smaller and recessed in the wall, your good at this, I don't care what that kilt wearing straw boss sez about you!

Still it's pretty work, maybe you can work with him and turn him into a prodigy!


----------



## ICE

I was convinced that there is a re-roof in progress......the owner says not so and I am welcome to go on the roof to see for myself.




And yes Pc1, there is some HVAC work being done by an amigo in chaps.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Maybe it's HVAC work by a dude in chaps?


----------



## MtnArch

Nah ... they're just changing the indoor/outdoor carpeting!


----------



## ICE

I hate when this happens.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

is that because the neutral is connected to ground?


----------



## ICE

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> is that because the neutral is connected to ground?


I'm not sure what's up.  This happened one other time with a roof mounted condenser.  It has never happened with a ground mounted condenser.  It might be a false reading.  The last time that it happened I had the installer, who was no slouch, check it out front to back.  I was there and nothing was found wrong.

I recall that somebody commented that since I am not standing on Earth, the tester is not reliable.  Somebody also mentioned capacitance causing the alert.  If I knew what that was it might make a difference but I haven't found the time to study and understand it.

The last time was with a different brand tester and I had to touch the metal with the tester to get it to signal.  This time the tester is singing inches away from the metal.


----------



## ICE

The service drop was laying on the roof so they propped it up.




The roof pitch is 7/8" so the last roof was a hot mop.  That roofer didn't prop the drop before throwing hot tar.  It's hard to know what that did to the insulation.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

So what's the solution to that? a 12' braced mast?

Brent.


----------



## ICE

Edison tells me that 2' above the roof is all that's required.  The conduit isn't long enough for that and trying to shorten the drop wil be a hard thing to pull off without bending the conduit.  The planner that I talked to said that they would replace the drop because of the tar and see what they can do about raising it.


----------



## Msradell

Wouldn't it be the HO's responsibility to provide a method for raising it at the roofline instead of the Power Company's?  That's certainly how it works most places.


----------



## ICE

Edison owns the drop.  Edison will give the owner a correction notice.  Edison may choose to bring the drop in from another direction.  However it turns out, it's not my problem.  Perhaps I shouldn't have said anything about it.


----------



## Pcinspector1

POST #1813,

I can't find where 2-ft above the roof is allowed by the NEC. POCO has its own rules?

I see NEC 230.24 clearances (A) No. 3 (Not more than 6-ft of conductor should be allowed over the roof if flat.) Photo taken looks beyond 6-ft IMO.

It appears that the service was from another direction at one time, and may have been compliant?


----------



## ICE




----------



## Paul Sweet

It's going to be fun putting those tiles back in.  I hope that fan is well supported.  Do the troffers have secondary support wires, or are they clipped to the grid?


----------



## Pcinspector1

#1819, Start over!

pc1


----------



## steveray

Paul Sweet said:
			
		

> It's going to be fun putting those tiles back in.  I hope that fan is well supported.  Do the troffers have secondary support wires, or are they clipped to the grid?


The fan is hung off of the flex duct...It's a seismic thing....


----------



## ICE

In order to maintain their license to steal, the utilities are required to give back to the communities that they steal from.  That engenders programs that give stuff away.  From refrigerators to attic insulation with wall furnaces in there too.  Because the stuff is free, not much respect is shown by the recipients or the contractors that spread the largess.  More often than not I am stood up for the first inspection.  The contractor doesn't care and the occupant may have seen me walking up to the door and then hid in a closet.




You can't even see the valve to shut off the gas.  And look at that ridiculous sediment trap.

This is the hallway wall that backs up to the furnace.  Now since there wasn't enough money for two studs, I'm guessing that an access panel is out of the question.




I do not like the way the gas pipe stops short of coming through the bottom plate.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Are flex GAS lines allowed to connect inside the furnace or does there need to be a solid gas line extension through the side?

Code section?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> Are flex GAS lines allowed to connect inside the furnace or does there need to be a solid gas line extension through the side? Code section?


Flexible connector is not allowed to pass through the sheet metal wall of a furnace.  Hard pipe must be used for that.  I don't know the code section.


----------



## Pcinspector1

IRC G2422.1.2.3 and IFGC 411


----------



## ICE

The conduit is quite crooked.  I couldn't get far enough away for a good picture.




I was certain that it is cross threaded and wrote the correction....but looking at this picture, I don't think it is.


----------



## ICE

This job is a 500 sqft addition.  I wrote 16 corrections.  # 17 said that I was stopping and there will be more.  Then I went into the bathroom.  #18 said, "The shower pan is completely wrong".  The contractor was waiting for me at the office this afternoon.  He wanted me to be specific about what was wrong with the shower pan. I told him that the big blunder was not hiring somebody to do a hot mop pan.  And that was good enough for him.




He had a structural observation report from the engineer that said the framing is up to snuff.  There is a long beam that is carrying a fair amount of load.  The plans specify a 7"wide 12" tall PSL.  What we got is a 5"x9.5" glulam.  There are a dozen more glaring mistakes.  Well the engineer didn't disappoint.


----------



## e hilton

I guess its too much to hope there is pan liner hidden behindthe tar paper.  Nah, i didnt think so.  And if the plans specified a certain size beam, why would you substitute something smaller on a permitted job?


----------



## conarb

\ said:
			
		

> The plans specify a 7"wide 12" tall PSL. What we got is a 5"x9.5" glulam.


I'd take the gluelam any day over the PSL, those things deteriorate when exposed to any moisture.  Whenever I've had PSLs specified I go to the engineer and have them change them to glulams or steel.


----------



## mtlogcabin

> why would you substitute something smaller on a permitted job?


When it comes to engineered products, smaller does not automatically equate to inadequate.


----------



## ICE

2"x8" ceiling joist spanning 16'.  There's a pull down stair that gets you to the attic.


----------



## ICE

This is no way to treat a shear wall.


----------



## ICE

They had just reached their stride when they hit the wall.


----------



## ICE

There was a time when the code stated that top plate splices can't be within 4' of each other.  I think that has changed.  To what I'm not sure but 1" isn't going to work with the top chord of a shear wall.  They didn't block the edges of the OSB.




At least they didn't waste fire caulk on the Romex considering that it has to come out to install the blocking.  I asked for 4"x4".  I probably aught to ask for A35s too.  But hey now, that's engineering and I'm only allowed to inspect.

If someone could tell me what the code is for the plate breaks, I would appreciate that.


----------



## ICE

The conduit is quite crooked.  I couldn't get far enough away for a good picture.





I was certain that it is cross threaded and wrote the correction....




I was wrong and it wasn't cross threaded.  They straightened it out and installed the correct strap incorrectly.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE,

R602.3.2 Top Plate: End joints of top plates shall be offset at least 24". Joints not required to be over a stud on double top plates.

#2 2x8 @ 16" on-center, (DF-larch), L240 with (20 live and 10 dead) will span 16'6" AWC calc. and 16'3" according to IRC 2012 table R802.4 (2) with limited storage.

Please verify, your results may be different depending on how you roll.

pc1


----------



## e hilton

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> When it comes to engineered products, smaller does not automatically equate to inadequate.


Might be correct, but that's what engineers are paid for, the contractor can't make the substitution.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:
			
		

> I asked for 4"x4".  .


You asked for 4x4 blocking at the osb joints?  Why?  Do you allow vertical sheathing joints to fall on a single 2x4 stud?


----------



## conarb

e hilton said:
			
		

> You asked for 4x4 blocking at the osb joints?  Why?  Do you allow vertical sheathing joints to fall on a single 2x4 stud?


All shear panel breaks require a minimum of 3x studs and blocking, 3xs are becoming so common that I see truck and trailer loads of nothing but 3x material going down the freeways.  This may be only in our seismic zones but it is a good requirement since nailing schedules require 10d common or .148 gun nails.  Back before this requirement I was splitting studs and blocking with all the nails, I've had 2" o.c. specified in some nailing schedules, but even at 4" o.c. two of them going into 1-1/2" studs splits the studs.


----------



## tmurray

conarb said:
			
		

> I'd take the gluelam any day over the PSL, those things deteriorate when exposed to any moisture.  Whenever I've had PSLs specified I go to the engineer and have them change them to glulams or steel.


My father runs a farm store and had someone design a front canopy for the store to make it look less industrial. They specified all PSL columns and beams. Now, these were going to be wrapped with aluminum, but otherwise exposed to weather. He asked for my comments on it and I told him his building was going to melt. When I asked why they didn't just use regular dimensional lumber he said the architect said they liked PSL better. the architect was trying to make the store look overly commercial, which is not great for a farm store where your clients usually come in directly from the barn to grab something. He had me re-draw the plans and I tried to make it look more like a barn, exposed roof rafter, exposed beams and columns. Also cut the estimated cost of the project by a third. I still find it surprising when certain products get specified by a "professional" where they really shouldn't be.


----------



## HForester

GCtony said:
			
		

> Well son of a gun!   What the heck is it doing in the accessability chapter? I guess Chaper 8, finishes would make too much sense.  You know how many restrooms I've built that don't meet 1210?  Learn something new every day. Thanks!


Chapter 12 of the IBC is *Interior Environment. Chapter 11 is Accessibility*


----------



## HForester

GCtony said:
			
		

> I guess Chaper 8, finishes would make too much sense.


Chapter 9 of the IBC is Interior Finishes, specifically, the_ material _of  those finishes. See Section 801.1. If a _plastic _cove base is being installed (which I suspect that this thread's originator is talking about), you would need to look in this Chapter for compliance of that material to the code.


----------



## mtlogcabin

conarb said:
			
		

> All shear panel breaks require a minimum of 3x studs and blocking, 3xs are becoming so common that I see truck and trailer loads of nothing but 3x material going down the freeways.  This may be only in our seismic zones but it is a good requirement since nailing schedules require 10d common or .148 gun nails.  Back before this requirement I was splitting studs and blocking with all the nails, I've had 2" o.c. specified in some nailing schedules, but even at 4" o.c. two of them going into 1-1/2" studs splits the studs.


Must be a CA thing left over from the UBC days

IRC requires

R602.10.10 Panel joints.

All vertical joints of panel sheathing shall occur over, and be fastened to, common studs. Horizontal joints in braced wall panels shall occur over, and be fastened to, common blocking of a minimum 11/2 inch (38 mm) thickness.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Depends on the wall. Some no, some yes.

Brent.


----------



## conarb

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> Depends on the wall. Some no, some yes. Brent.


  If it's a shear wall it doesn't, if it's not a shear wall it doesn't.  In our seismic zone the prescriptive code is out, everything requires engineering.  They all use the irregular shape requirement to require engineering since the 1998 UBC, examples 1)  I tried to permit a simple dormer on the roof, CBO says get an engineer loads may not go all the way straight into the ground, he was correct, when the engineer crawled under the house there was a 3" offset under the first floor.  Example  2) On a home I built 30 years earlier the owner asked me to remodel the kitchen, I tried to get by without engineering by just changing cabinets, during the work the wife asked me to raise a doorway from 6'8" to 8', bearing in mind what the CBO had told me I tried to disguise what I was doing, used same header, old studs cut for new cripples, straightened and used old nails. etc.  When I called for an inspection on electrical and plumbing the field inspector came into the house looking for anything structural, he saw the header change and shut me down, I told him I was going in to argue it with the CBO, he said get an engineer, $700 and three weeks later I brought the engineering in, he didn't even look at it, just shoved it into the file and said:  "Now aren't you happy? We now have engineering to protect both of us in case anything ever happens."  It's  liability thing, AHJs want everything engineered so there is no way they can be liable.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

It must be case by case.

I just finished a frame with 3x on 2 walls, and just 2x on 2 others. Go figure. Perimeter nailing and blocking.

I prefer to block out with 3x anyway as it just makes things easier.

Brent.


----------



## conarb

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> It must be case by case. I just finished a frame with 3x on 2 walls, and just 2x on 2 others. Go figure. Perimeter nailing and blocking.
> 
> I prefer to block out with 3x anyway as it just makes things easier.
> 
> Brent.


Particularly if you split the 2x studs and blocks, the engineer or inspector may make you replace them with hundreds of 10d nails in them.


----------



## mtlogcabin

Here as an IRC perscriptive example for a portal opening. Notice the 2X is not flat across the panel edge but one is installed for each panel edge. I can see where a 3X would be easier and quicker to install and impossible for the unskilled to screw it up.
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 1264


View attachment 1264


/monthly_2015_12/572953d9a8d1f_garageportal.JPG.902076d3c3310986409ab7e6f83a8100.JPG


----------



## ICE

The top clamp has the GEC.




The bottom clamp has a wire that skirts the service panel and tucks under the eave.




The wire turns the corner and lands on this gas pipe.




Of course the service is mounted over a hole.


----------



## Pcinspector1

I've never seen the GAS regulator installed flat like that, is that kosher?

pc1


----------



## conarb

\ said:
			
		

> Here as an IRC perscriptive example for a portal opening. Notice the 2X is not flat across the panel edge but one is installed for each panel edge. I can see where a 3X would be easier and quicker to install and impossible for the unskilled to screw it up.





			
				\ said:
			
		

> *R301.1.3.1 California licensed architect or engineer.*When any portion of any structure deviates from substantial compliance with conventional framing requirements for woodframe construction found in this code, the building official shall require the construction documents to be approved and stamped by a California licensed architect or engineer for that irregular or nonconforming portion of work. Notwithstanding other sections of law, the law establishing these provisions is found in Business and Professions Code Sections 5537 and 6737.1.





			
				\ said:
			
		

> *R301.2.2.2.S Irregular buildings.* The seismic provisions of this code shall not be used for irregular structures located in Seismic Design Categories C, Do, D I and D2• Irregular portions of structures shall be designed in accordance with accepted engineering practice to the extent the irregular features affect the performance of the remaining structural system. When the forces associated with the irregularity are resisted by a structural system designed in accordance with accepted engineering practice, design of the remainder of the building shall be permitted using the provisions of this code. A building or portion of a building shall be considered to be irregular when one or more of the following conditions occur:1. When exterior shear wall lines or braced wall panels are not in one plane vertically from the foundation to the uppermost story in which they are required.


There are some exceptions here that you can look up, but generally our CBOs are requiring everything be engineered unless it's a square doghouse.

Your flat blocking is a question that has bothered me, back in the days when the grain of plywood had to run perpendicular to the studs we used flat blocking without an problems, the plywood manufacturers started making "cross-grained plywood" to solve the problem, then that requirement went away in the 60s and they stopped making it, now our engineers are all specifying 3x material but I don't know why they don't allow flat blocking as an alternative.

As a builder I hated what they did to us with the 1998 CBC (1997 UBC), but as soon as I got familiar with it I liked it better since all questions were resolved, everything we did was what the architects and engineers told us to do, all questions disappeared, and the additional costs just became part of our bid and all bidders were figuring the same thing, and the more something costs the more we make since we all operate on a percentage of costs.


----------



## ICE

The job is furnace and A/C replacement.  This is the view from the attic access.




Can't see much from here and can't go anywhere from here to get a better view.

So I stuck the camera in as far as I could reach.  It looks like they beat the furnace up some getting it in here.  Had to cut a few truss webs too.




They had to bang on the vent and the plenum is split open.

I'm probably going to hear that the piece of condensate drain that's been snapped off is just trash from the previous installation.




They are trying to turn this one into trash before it's time.

The lady asked me if I was wondering how they got it in there.  I said, "No Ma'am I was wondering how they will get it out".  This is a condo building with one tiny space behind each condo.  There's a wood fence on each end.  They removed six wood fences to get this condenser from the street to her little space.




They got one side clearance with no possibility of getting the other three even close to correct.

This is a licensed contractor and not a small outfit either.  That's a good thing because they can afford to lose a few thousand on this one.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

Mini split would have been soo much easier.

Brent


----------



## e hilton

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> Mini split would have been soo much easier.Brent


Even a mini split requires a condensing unit.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

e hilton said:
			
		

> Even a mini split requires a condensing unit.


The unit itself is smaller, and the clearances to the unit is smaller, and generally in a single axis perpendicular to the fan axle. The design lends itself to limited space applications.

Brent.


----------



## ICE

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> The unit itself is smaller, and the clearances to the unit is smaller, and generally in a single axis perpendicular to the fan axle. The design lends itself to limited space applications.Brent.


And they could have brought it through the front door.  Not to mention that I suspect that all of the equipment is oversized for the conditioned space.


----------



## ICE

Crack prevention.




I doubt that a few cracks would be noticed.


----------



## ICE

The plans call for ceiling joist.  The owner changed his mind and the contractor says that he had to please his customer.


----------



## Phil

Ice,

What's up with all of the plywood connections? Does the contractor think (2) stacked  2x4s = (1) 2x8??? Or, is the extra board suppose to somehow make up for the missing ceiling joists?


----------



## ICE

Those are stacked 2"x6"s and they did it to accomodate R30 insulation.  There are other issues such as no ventilation and the radiant barrier is installed wrong.  I sent them back through plan check and so far I haven't heard from anyone.


----------



## e hilton

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> The unit itself is smaller, and the clearances to the unit is smaller, and generally in a single axis perpendicular to the fan axle. The design lends itself to limited space applications.Brent.


Depends on the brand, but you are correct that some have a suitcase-size condensing unit.  They probably sold the HO what they had in stock.


----------



## ICE

They raised the roof from 1" pitch to this.  There's quite a bit more beyond the garage.




Nobody thought about calling for an inspection before they sheathed the roof.

They called for a framing inspection.  When I got there I pointed out that I can't see any of the framing.  That's when I was told that I wasn't there for that.....nope, they told me that I was there to decide if they really, really need to replace the dimensional garage door header with the parallam that the plans call for.

Well then today I got a call from the contractor.  He forgot to request an inspection of the pad footings for the parallam.  I told him that I could do the inspection.


----------



## e hilton

Was the roof re-frame under a permit?   And is it safe to assume you told them to build the header like the plans?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:
			
		

> Was the roof re-frame under a permit?   And is it safe to assume you told them to build the header like the plans?


Yes and yes.


----------



## ICE

I was helping out at a nearby city.  Their inspector was sent to a class and they didn't make plans for his inspections so it was dumped in my lap.  Well anyway, this inspection request said framing.  Right away I told them that the window is all wrong and must be replaced with a new construction window.  That's when they told me that the only inspection they wanted was for the new front door.  They said that the regular inspector has seen the window several times and hasn't found any problems with it.  I was then asked,"When will he be back?"  Oddly enough there is a separate building permit for just the front door.  So I said, "Have it your way".   You see, I was dealing with the homeowner so if it leaks it's on him.  However I think I planted a seed and he may confront the contractor.   He got a curious look on his face when I asked him what was going to stop the stucco.


----------



## ICE

At least there wasn't a lot of it.


----------



## Msradell

I have to ask the question, "a lot of what"?


----------



## ICE

The lath is inside out.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

I am constantly in awe of the new and inventive ways people come up with to screw up stucco.

Brent.


----------



## mtlogcabin

ESR2376 states there should be 2 layers unless it is GMCraft 60 minute paper.

http://www.icc-es.org/reports/pdf_files//ESR-2376.pdf


----------



## Paul Sweet

The ESR mentioned 10, 30 & 60 minute ratings.  10 minutes doesn't sound much more water resistive than a paper towel!


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:
			
		

> The lath is inside out.


We don't see stucco done much around here! I think it's one of those California things that you guys have to put up with.


----------



## ICE

This is the roof from post 1864. Notice the corner.




Here's a closer look.




Here they are a day later...doing it over.




They will fix this next.




I'm guessing that there are a few of you out there that would argue that these problems are not code violations.  Look at post #1876 and see what he did next.


----------



## ICE

The house has a fireplace. It was installed in 1952, or so I'm told.




Now that the roof has been raised, the chimney is too short. Chimney was added.




As luck would have it, the contractor had fireplace parts left over from several jobs. They weren't the same diameter and didn't actually fit together so he used tape. He said that it is heat tape. When I said that he can't just tape the outside of a chimney pipe he said , "I know better than that, we taped the inside too"......... No shlt, he said that. I know, I know.....I couldn't believe it either. If there was ever a case where I should be allowed to ask to see his license and then light it on fire.....this is it.

The new vent in no way mates up with the old opening so he heat taped that too. Inside and out.





There are tabs that the cap rested on. There was no vent section above the opening that the new vent sits on. The gasses and soot ended up in the box at the top of the chimney.


----------



## ICE

That's the dryer vent.




Because he's fairly certain that this place will be on fire, he installed a firewall.


----------



## jar546

Always very interesting as usual.  Still hard to believe this stuff just keeps happening.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

That's good evidence of a deep misunderstanding of what he's doing.

Brent.


----------



## e hilton

> The lath is inside out.


Doesnt look like enough staples either.


----------



## ICE

> ESR2376 states there should be 2 layers unless it is GMCraft 60 minute paper.http://www.icc-es.org/reports/pdf_files//ESR-2376.pdf





> R703.6.3 Water-resistive barriers. Water-resistive barriersshall be installed as required in Section R703.2 and,
> 
> where applied over wood-based sheathing, shall include a
> 
> water-resistive vapor-permeable barrier with a performance
> 
> at least equivalent to two layers of Grade D paper.
> 
> The individual layers shall be installed independently such
> 
> that each layer provides a separate continuous plane and
> 
> any flashing (installed in accordance with Section R703.8)
> 
> intended to drain to the water-resistive barrier is directed
> 
> between the layers.
> 
> *Exception:* Where the water-resistive barrier that is
> 
> applied over wood-based sheathing has a water resistance
> 
> equal to or greater than that of 60-minute Grade
> 
> D paper *and is separated from the stucco by an intervening,*
> 
> *substantially nonwater-absorbing layer *or
> 
> designed drainage space.


I'm not sure what this means: "*intervening, substantially nonwater-absorbing layer." *It sounds like another layer of Grade D.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

> I'm not sure what this means: "*intervening, substantially nonwater-absorbing layer." *It sounds like another layer of Grade D.


Styrofoam.

Brent


----------



## ICE

> Styrofoam.
> 
> Brent


Could be huh.  Or tinfoil.  Or old raincoats.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

> Could be huh. Or tinfoil. Or old raincoats.


Both of which are preferable to styrofoam.

Brent


----------



## ICE

Homeowner called to ask me to fax a service release to Edison for his house. I asked him if we have done an inspection and approved the work. He said that we did that on 1-16-2008 but we didn't send the release to Edison. There has been a temporary hookup for eight years and recently it started to fall apart. He noticed that stuff was acting strange so he called Edison. Edison came out and fixed the loose neutral connection. Edison also told him that he must get a release from the Building Dept so that they can change the open wire drop to a triplex.

In 2008 an inspector signed the final inspection for a bedroom and master bath addition with a service upgrade. That inspector has since retired. Now they want me to release the power. I said that I would only do that after an inspection.

Oh no! The breakers aren't labeled.




Gas and water pipe didn't get bonded.




There's two #4 in that lug. And wouldn't you know it, that's all 14 awg NM on 20 amp breakers.

I don't see any arc fault breakers for that new bedroom.

I hope that he understands that the other stuff is for his own safety.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ARC's were required by the IRC2006 not sure before that if they were required by the 2003?

Just visited CA, stayed in Arcadia, went to the Rose Bowl parade, I did't see you there! Heard you were in that Bernie Sanders march at the end of the parade!


----------



## ICE

> ARC's were required by the IRC2006 not sure before that if they were required by the 2003?Just visited CA, stayed in Arcadia, went to the Rose Bowl parade, I did't see you there! Heard you were in that Bernie Sanders march at the end of the parade!


We didn't use the IRC in 2008. We still don't use the electrical portion of the IRC.  This job fell l under the 2005 NEC. That code required ARC fault protection for all circuits in a bedroom. That shouldn't be a big problem to fix here because it appears as though each circuit has it's own neutral.

Who is Bernie Sanders. Is he related to the Colonel?


----------



## Pcinspector1

> Who is Bernie Sanders. Is he related to the Colonel?


I think he has the same colored hair as the colonel?


----------



## ICE

All of the windows have been replaced.




Drywall screws.




The contractor insisted that drywall screws are okay. He told me that he has used drywall screws on windows for years without a hitch in his giddy up. I believe him.... because he seems like an honest guy...but mostly because this is his residence. He missed a safety glazing requirement next to the front door.....Been getting that wrong for years too.


----------



## jar546

Testing Tapatalk

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ICE

This guy is trying really hard to do a good job. With a little bit of advice it should turn out okay. He speaks English so that helps. A service upgrade is next.




He told me that on the last job of his that I inspected I made him add staples....so he got out ahead of me on this one. Now I'm making him remove staples. He must think I'm a little crazy. That's alright, lots of people do.

It's easy to see that they used the correct length staple for the lath....the entire job is like this.  The lath has no furring at all so adding another layer of wire with furring nails should do the trick.


----------



## ICE

The plumber and electrician hacked the frame on this job and the framer complained about it as we walked the framing inspection.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

The correction said, "Install a structural strap (ST62XX) across the over-bored wall top plates.  Place 10 #10 nails or screws 1.5" long on each side of the damage."  Now electricians are generally a bit smarter than most other trades.  They have to be.  While a plumber can get you killed, an electrician can get himself dead right along with you.


----------



## Pcinspector1

I'm not seeing the top plate??

Why does that strap have to be installed in that location?

Is it being used as a stud guard?

PC1 is confussed :dejection:


----------



## MASSDRIVER

> I'm not seeing the top plate??Why does that strap have to be installed in that location?
> 
> Is it being used as a stud guard?
> 
> PC1 is confussed :dejection:


So is the guy that installed it.

Brent


----------



## ICE

> Why does that strap have to be installed in that location?


R602.6.1 Drilling and notching of top plate. When piping

or ductwork is placed in or partly in an exterior wall or

interior load-bearing wall, necessitating cutting, drilling or

notching of the top plate by more than 50 percent of its

width, a galvanized metal tie not less than 0.054 inch thick

(1.37 mm) (16 ga) and 11/2 inches (38 mm) wide shall be

fastened across and to the plate at each side of the opening

with not less than eight 10d (0.148 inch diameter) having a

minimum length of 11/2 inches (38 mm) at each side or

equivalent. The metal tie must extend a minimum of 6

inches past the opening. See Figure R602.6.1.

Exception: When the entire side of the wall with the

notch or cut is covered by wood structural panel sheathing.


----------



## ICE

The homeowner said that Lowes installed the water heater.  So I told him to take the correction slip to the Lowes store.




There's something not right about this.




I think that the previous water heater had a T&P valve located on the top.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE,

The whirlybird vent looks like it's installed correctly, the rest of the flashing an't pretty or done correctly.

Watch out, there's a big zombie behind you!:cower:


----------



## my250r11

LOL that's what happens when the sheet metal guy does roofing! :shame:


----------



## ICE

Flipper is at it again with retrofit windows.


----------



## ICE

I hate seeing the flimsy fart fan duct.




This duct is much better.


----------



## ICE

Flipper told me that I can't write a correction about this because another inspector has approved the electrical. He was already upset about the windows so I didn't let on that I think he's a bandit. I stopped at 17 corrections and didn't get to the attic to inspect the furnace. He will be crestfallen when he finds out that the entire house now requires arc fault protection. I held back on that one because there is no electrical permit for the rewire and the supervisors are always telling me to not write so many corrections at one time.  They prefer that I prolong the dread.


----------



## ICE

There is a building permit for an addition of 83 sqft to a bedroom, a porch roof and a carport that is yet to be built. That is the only permit. They requested a framing and roughs inspection.






They told me that upon commencing the window install they discovered dry rot and termite damage. So they removed darned near everything except the roof and ceiling joists. Much of the plates, both top and bottom were left intact. Logically, they had to save the top plates in order to save the roof and ceiling joists. Understandably this is no small feat.




This mistake makes me wonder what these guys do for a living.




There are no rafter ties anywhere and much of the ceiling joist are 2"x4".


----------



## ICE

I pretty much blew them off and told them to get all of the required permits before I will start writing corrections. They did get some permits. There is now an additional building permit for six windows. I wrote a description of the work for them to present when getting the permits and it comes out "six windows". It is unfortunate what will happen to these people but it needs to be.




They're going to learn a few things about manners too.




If I told them that their work is garbage, would they have the right to be offended?  Considering the cost of the permits, these folks are gonna get true value for the dollar in corrections.


----------



## Msradell

Look at the bright side, they at least had drawings! Of course having drawings makes me wonder if I didn't plan to do all they are doing initially and just didn't want to worry about the permits.


----------



## ICE

> Look at the bright side, they at least had drawings! Of course having drawings makes me wonder if I didn't plan to do all they are doing initially and just didn't want to worry about the permits.


Well little Lady, I didn't look at the plans. I told them to get the proper permit and present approved plans that are fastened together in the correct order. Inspecting this mess will take several hours and on this one I'm not going to stop once I get going. I already have a bunch of corrections from the pictures. On the day that I inspect this I will look at the plans when I get to the office in the morning. I usually arrive early so it will be just me and the plans for a half hour. I will know the job inside out and turn it upside down. I really have no choice in the matter.

When it comes to corrections, the plans are not that important. I know some of you will think ill of me for saying that.  I bet I find over thirty corrections and no more than three will stem from the plans.

Something about these ceiling joists seems odd.


----------



## ICE

There is a two story addition under the tarp and they called for all the roughs.







The electrician must have been there by himself when he did this to that shear wall. The plumber butchered stuff too.




The dimensional header is 4"x14". The mistake is way obvious.




That is a second story balcony. The floor is dead flat. I should pitch 1/4" per foot. A big fat lip is on the way.


----------



## Msradell

>


He at least should get some extra credit for neatness. That some of the need is cable running up everything in a residential installation.


----------



## ICE

> He at least should get some extra credit for neatness. That some of the need is cable running up everything in a residential installation.


Yes it is neat.  We call it bundled wire.


----------



## ICE

I had to investigate a complaint today.  I don't like doing that.  The complainer said that the garage has been converted and is a rental unit.  As it turned out, the entire 1300 sqft dwelling has been chopped up.  There are ten tenants.  And a lot of doors.




There's the proud owner and a cardboard partition wall.




There's a person living in there.  He said that he pays $550 per month.  I spoke to two other people and they said that they pay $550 per month.  This was before the owner showed up.  Each of the tenants is mentally challenged.  They are probably all on some form of government assistance.




He claimed that nobody lives in this hole.




I was surprised that there isn't a vacancy sign out front.


----------



## JCraver

So what do you do with that, where you are?  Is that an illegal dwelling, and you kick them all out?  Condemn it?  Or just give him a book full of violations and ___ days to get it fixed?

I've got some pretty crappy landlords here, but nobody has tried to stuff 10 people into 1300 sf yet..


----------



## steveray

That is awesome....amazing what you can get away with in a good climate!


----------



## Pcinspector1

Wonder if the rooms have EEO's?


----------



## ICE

> So what do you do with that, where you are? Is that an illegal dwelling, and you kick them all out? Condemn it? Or just give him a book full of violations and ___ days to get it fixed?I've got some pretty crappy landlords here, but nobody has tried to stuff 10 people into 1300 sf yet..


There's nothing much that I can do about it.  Our policy is to throw a bunch of paperwork on it.  Then we secure a lien on the property for around $1200.  Then we do nothing.....usually.  In this case the code enforcement dept has sent this for prosecution.  That is extremely rare.

As far as kicking the people out....that's not going to happen.  Where would we kick them to?  The streets?


----------



## steveray

> There's nothing much that I can do about it. Our policy is to through a bunch of paperwork on it. Then we secure a lien on the property for around $1200. Then we do nothing.....usually. In this case the code enforcement dept has sent this for prosecution. That is extremely rare.
> 
> As far as kicking the people out....that's not going to happen. Where would we kick them to? The streets?


The problem we have here is, once we know there is a "safety violation", if we do nothing we are liable and the town is. Here, if we put them out (for ANYTHING) we put them up, it's an ugly concept. If your code enforcement people are on it, maybe you are all set, if there is a fire tomorrow and no one gets out because there are no EERO's....Here a decent lawyer would get millions per person as the "town knew about the issues and did nothing to save those people"...Negligence....


----------



## ICE

I guess the word awful would best describe this back yard. The only redeeming feature is that it is behind a house.







The inspector for this job retired last week. I was off on Monday so another inspector was brought in to help out. That inspector went to this job for a final inspection. He wrote two corrections; one said "Install an alarm on the door" and another that said "Make the stairs safe". I was curious about the stairs.

Here we go. The contractor explained that there was no guard rail and the inspector told him to install a guard rail that will not let a 4" sphere pass through. He said that he tried to convince the inspector that the stairs were not required to meet any code but the best he could get was a compromise to place these steel pipes as we see it.



What's worse is that I had to write corrections. There's no GFCI on the pump motors...he couldn't find the ground ring on the back side...there's no water bond. The last correction said to bond the guard rail pipes or remove them. He was not happy. I apologized for my department. I encouraged him to raise a big stink. He won't do that for fear of reprisal from the inspector. So it will continue to happen.

Now some would say that it is my responsibility to raise that stink. I have done that in the past and nothing is done about it. Well I shouldn't say that nothing gets done....I get labeled as a trouble maker and that's something.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE,

I'm concerned that nothing in your area ever gets reviewed?


----------



## ICE

> ICE,I'm concerned that nothing in your area ever gets reviewed?


So "review" you say.....not in this lifetime.


----------



## e hilton

Ice, saw an article in the paper about two guys who were arrested in So Cal for drawing illegal house plans for a couple of years.  Any of that in your area?


----------



## e hilton

Like this ...  http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/09/hundreds-california-homes-buildings-used-plans-drafted-by-2-phony-engineers-say-authorities.html?intcmp=hpbt4


----------



## JCraver

> There's nothing much that I can do about it. Our policy is to through a bunch of paperwork on it. Then we secure a lien on the property for around $1200. Then we do nothing.....usually. In this case the code enforcement dept has sent this for prosecution. That is extremely rare.
> 
> As far as kicking the people out....that's not going to happen. Where would we kick them to? The streets?


Really?  No offense meant, but you need better bosses.  Tell them I said that if you like..

What could/do you lien it for, and how does that work?

IMO, letting people stay there is worse than kicking them out.  If they end up sleeping in their car, at least they'll be alive when that place burns down.


----------



## cda

> I had to investigate a complaint today.  I don't like doing that.  The complainer said that the garage has been converted and is a rental unit.  As it turned out, the entire 1300 sqft dwelling has been chopped up.  There are ten tenants.  And a lot of doors.
> 
> 
> 
> There's the proud owner and a cardboard partition wall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a person living in there.  He said that he pays $550 per month.  I spoke to two other people and they said that they pay $550 per month.  This was before the owner showed up.  Each of the tenants is mentally challenged.  They are probably all on some form of government assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He claimed that nobody lives in this hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was surprised that there isn't a vacancy sign out front.


Any adult protective service or mhmr that will investigate???


----------



## ICE

> Any adult protective service or mhmr that will investigate???


Since this has gone to the district attorney's office, if that's a possibility I'm sure that they are looking at it.


----------



## ICE

The contractor brought the GEC from the back of the house to the front.




He managed to miss the water main.


----------



## ICE

On this job the GEC starts here.




It hits a rod and then on to the water main at the front of the house.




And here we are at the water main.


----------



## ICE

This could catch on.


----------



## steveray

Not in my part of the world thank God.....But hey they have solar, so it is all good....


----------



## linnrg

nothing like a shower after a hard day of scooping up dog poop


----------



## ICE

> nothing like a shower after a hard day of scooping up dog poop


Actually, they have two Basset Hounds.


----------



## ICE

Service entrance conduit.


----------



## ICE

He said, "It wouldn't fit because the enclosure is too small" I said, "Well you understand this completely so why should I write a correction".


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE, You put your left foot in and take your left foot out and shake all around! That's how you do the ICE-a-Pokie!

"Put your Wolverines back on!"


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

At the first inspection of the wall furnace the stud bay had not been opened up. When I told the contractor that the wall finish had to be removed he wanted to know why. One of the things that I mentioned was the plate spacer strap.




And this is a single story house.

Is he right and it's my fault that he has to do more work and lose another day waiting for yet another inspection?  But Sir, I had no idea that you had no clue.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE, Flue appears to be installed to code now with the plate spacer! An no sheet metal screws through the plumbers strap is a good thing.


----------



## ICE

The contractor must be a real jerk.  The lady that lives there was tickled to find out that he will have to do the lath over.


----------



## ICE

Secondary condensate drain.  This is old work.


----------



## ICE

As soon as I saw this I told them that a dielectric union is required.




They removed dielectric unions and installed these which they claim are bronze.  They cost $11 each.

Here is what they removed.


----------



## ICE

There are valves behind this access door for the hot and cold water. The gas shutoff is behind the appliances. I screwed up and told them to make the gas shutoff valve accessible without moving the appliances. I'll have to call them tomorrow and take that back. The no combustion air is still a problem and as I recall, a laundry room is required to have an exhaust fan.....or maybe not. Either way that won't happen.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 Well I thought about it some more and haven't made up my mind about the gas valve.  The only way to make it accessible is an access panel in the exterior wall behind the dryer.  The reason that I figured that I screwed up is that the gas valve is always accessible behind a dryer.  All you have to do is move the dryer and there it is.  Now how would that work with this setup. The connector would have to be 12' long to pull the stack out and get behind it.  If just the dryer came out and then the washer it would have to be even longer.  There used to be a code about a connector being limited to 3'.

I haven't called them yet and I was hoping to get feedback here.


----------



## ICE

Everywhere you look there's a blob of foam.




I could see the nail shank behind the blob that was here. So now I am going to ask them to remove all of the foam so I can look for more nails. There plenty of shiners and it is strange that the sheathing was nailed after the electrical was done.

I changed up the correction.  It is now "Start over and leave the existing cable in place".




There is a service upgrade located on the addition and this is the old location. This mess is energized and the service has been connected by Edison. The service has been signed off on the job card.




The rods are just over 4" apart.


----------



## ICE

Sometimes there is a tell.


----------



## ICE

I used to plaster pools.  If I showed up to a mess like this it was an early day.







This runt fence is 4' tall.




They made it soooo much better with zip ties and lath.


----------



## ICE

We won't allow a concrete truck to clean up in the street.







This is why I never park on driveways.




Doggone it there's gonna be a cold joint 'cause there's nowhere near enough sand. Should've added gravel I guess. Well there's always next time.


----------



## mark handler

We don't allow that much concrete in the front yard.


----------



## ICE

This valve was left in a crawl space where it had served a floor furnace for 56 years.  The gas pipe was extended to the attic for a new furnace.  The gas valve was closed for the pressure test.  The correction said to provide a picture of the pipe with the valve in place and a picture of the pipe with the valve removed.  I also asked for the valve.




The key to this valve is grease.  Grease makes the seal.  56 year old grease.


----------



## ICE

> We don't allow that much concrete in the front yard.


Well they're safe there.....it's not concrete.....it's sand and cement.


----------



## conarb

\ said:
			
		

> This valve was left in a crawl space where it had served a floor furnace for 56 years. The gas pipe was extended to the attic for a new furnace. The gas valve was closed for the pressure test. The correction said to provide a picture of the pipe with the valve in place and a picture of the pipe with the valve removed. I also asked for the valve.


What gives you the authority for that?


----------



## ICE

> What gives you the authority for that?


A tool is required to operate the valve. A valve shall be accessible. There is no listing for the valve. I usurp authority.  I'm going with the last one....that way I don't have to come up with a code section.


----------



## mark handler

> Well they're safe there.....it's not concrete.....it's sand and cement.


Still won't fly....We require landscape not hardscape


----------



## Mark K

If you cannot come up with a code section you are abusing your authority.

Were listings required for valves 56 years ago?


----------



## ICE

> If you cannot come up with a code section you are abusing your authority.Were listings required for valves 56 years ago?


That's the beauty of abusing authority and I don't know what the codes were in 1960.


----------



## conarb

> That's the beauty of abusing authority and I don't know what the codes were in 1960.


Don't you have the historic codes?  ICC sold a CD with historic codes on it last time I was in their store.


----------



## ICE

> Don't you have the historic codes? ICC sold a CD with historic codes on it last time I was in their store.


We have the code books so I could find out. Whatever the code was in 1960 has no relevance to the reuse of a valve today. Mark K has confused cannot with will not.


----------



## ICE

> This valve was left in a crawl space where it had served a floor furnace for 56 years. The gas pipe was extended to the attic for a new furnace. The gas valve was closed for the pressure test. The correction said to provide a picture of the pipe with the valve in place and a picture of the pipe with the valve removed. I also asked for the valve.
> 
> 
> 
> The key to this valve is grease. Grease makes the seal. 56 year old grease.


Here is the latest valve for my collection. To my surprise there is a connector attached. It hadn't occur to me that they were utilizing connectors as a part of the gas system in the underfloor area.




I can guarantee that there are many valves and connectors under the floors of houses. I also know that I have not heard of any problems related to that. So all of you inspectors may want to consider the source and ignore the condition.

After all, this is what you are presented with at the typical wall furnace install and I don't see any ancient valves or connectors in that picture.  If the new furnace is in the attic you don't even see this because the wall is patched.


----------



## ICE

The corner of the platform is 4'-9" from the fence. Figuring that the fence is the property line, that's 3" short of the minimum 5' per the planning dept. 3" isn't worth a correction however, the clearance required from the wall to the equipment is 10". The contractor is miffed because I saved him from installing a mistake. But then he would be downright plssed off if I hadn't.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Pcinspector1

Post #1955, I had three of those type gas valves fail a recent gas pressure test, all of them leaked by the furnace. Contract was glad we tested the line.

Post #1957, 1) How come I'm not getting all my dish channels? 2) Electrical mast flashing a bit high and no 3-ft clearance from dish and chimney! 3) Does that chimney have a flew?

pc1


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

This was a service panel ten years ago. The service panel that fed this panel has been replaced. I was not able to access this panel at the first inspection of the new service so out of an abundance of caution I wrote the correction to make sure that the sub-panel has an isolated neutral.


----------



## ICE

> This runt fence is 4' tall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They made it soooo much better with zip ties and lath.


The contractor requested another pre-plaster inspection. Since the pool is filled with water the same day that it is plastered, all the requirements for a final inspection shall be met. The contractor has sunk to a new low with this rental fence.


----------



## ICE

The bricks are dislodged because everything on the property is moving towards the middle of the street.


----------



## conarb

What are you going to do, cite the house for moving and condemn it?


----------



## Msradell

> The bricks are dislodged because everything on the property is moving towards the middle of the street.


Is there any major damage to the property or mostly cosmetic damage like this? Is the house on a hillside that's moving, if not what's the cause of the movement?


----------



## ICE

The house across the street was just brought back to level. It was jacked up and a new footing was placed under the existing footing. The slab was replaced as well. In 30 feet it was tilted 12". It had been like that for twenty years. The explanation I was given was is that there is a band of poor soil that runs with the street and all of the houses are sliding towards the poor soil.


----------



## steveray

For the valves...

*R104.9.1 Used materials and equipment. *Used materials, _equipment _and devices shall not be reused unless _approved _by the _building official._


----------



## ICE

> What are you going to do' date=' cite the house for moving and condemn it?[/quote']It takes a police officer to write a moving violation.  In few years there will be an illegal lane change.


----------



## ICE

The second to the last step is installing the hinges. I wonder what the HO thought about this.




It is the next day.  The dead front is off and the hinges have been removed.  When you release the latch at the bottom is when you find out that the hinges have been removed.  The owner came out and I asked him if the contractor left this open.  He said that he did it because the contractor called to tell him that he would not be able to show up today and the contractor asked the owner to take it apart.

There's 25 current carrying conductors in the conduit.


----------



## ICE

I shouldn't have to tell a contractor that this will not be okay.


----------



## ICE

The seismic strap company could save a buck or two. If the straps are long enough to do this, material is being wasted.


----------



## ICE

I expect them to ARC fault the glugs but they went overboard with the kitchen/bath and laundry lights.


----------



## ICE

The contractor didn't think that I would crawl around under the house....and he was right about that.


----------



## conarb

> I expect them to ARC fault the glugs but they went overboard with the kitchen/bath and laundry lights.


I wish I could get an electrician to label his panels like that, the heck with the spelling, it's better labeling that I've ever got.


----------



## Msradell

> I expect them to ARC fault the glugs but they went overboard with the kitchen/bath and laundry lights.


Where is the 2nd kitchen outlet circuit??


----------



## TheCommish

ICE, how is this job?


----------



## TheCommish

ICE now this screen shot


----------



## Pcinspector1

>


At first glance I thought "Down goes Frazier!" Down goes Fraizer!" Then I thought, I wish I could afford a new pair of boots!:confusion:


----------



## Builder Bob

> Where is the 2nd kitchen outlet circuit??


I am more worried about having GLUGS installed....... is this the sound of beverages they were drinking while making the labels>


----------



## ICE

Besides the obvious corrections, and there's plenty of them, what say you about dumping the secondary condensate drain into the emergency drain pan?


----------



## Msradell

Well, I've certainly seem worse things done with the secondary condensate drain. It's also certainly a minor issue compared to some of the others that are visible. If everything else was corrected satisfactorily I'd probably let it go.


----------



## steveray

Everything talks about supplemental or auxiliary so I would say: Nay Nay....

*M1411.3 Condensate disposal.* Condensate from all cooling coils or evaporators shall be conveyed from the drain pan outlet to an _approved_ place of disposal. Such piping shall maintain a minimum horizontal slope in the direction of discharge of not less than 1/8 unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (1-percent slope). Condensate shall not discharge into a street, alley or other areas where it would cause a nuisance.

*M1411.3.1 Auxiliary and secondary drain systems.* In addition to the requirements of Section M1411.3, a secondary drain or auxiliary drain pan shall be required for each cooling or evaporator coil where damage to any building components will occur as a result of overflow from the _equipment_ drain pan or stoppage in the condensate drain piping. Such piping shall maintain a minimum horizontal slope in the direction of discharge of not less than 1/8 unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (1-percent slope). Drain piping shall be a minimum of 3/4-inch (19 mm) nominal pipe size.

One of the following methods shall be used:

1. An auxiliary drain pan with a separate drain shall be installed under the coils on which condensation will occur. The auxiliary pan drain shall discharge to a conspicuous point of disposal to alert occupants in the event of a stoppage of the primary drain. The pan shall have a minimum depth of 1.5 inches (38 mm), shall not be less than 3 inches (76 mm) larger than the unit or the coil dimensions in width and length and shall be constructed of corrosion-resistant material. Galvanized sheet steel pans shall have a minimum thickness of not less than 0.0236-inch (0.6010 mm) (No. 24 Gage). Nonmetallic pans shall have a minimum thickness of not less than 0.0625 inch (1.6 mm).

2. A separate overflow drain line shall be connected to the drain pan installed with the _equipment_. This overflow drain shall discharge to a conspicuous point of disposal to alert occupants in the event of a stoppage of the primary drain. The overflow drain line shall connect to the drain pan at a higher level than the primary drain connection.

3. An auxiliary drain pan without a separate drain line shall be installed under the coils on which condensation will occur. This pan shall be equipped with a water level detection device conforming to UL 508 that will shut off the _equipment_ served prior to overflow of the pan. The pan shall be equipped with a fitting to allow for drainage. The auxiliary drain pan shall be constructed in accordance with Item 1 of this section.

4. A water level detection device conforming to UL 508 shall be installed that will shut off the _equipment_ served in the event that the primary drain is blocked. The device shall be installed in the primary drain line, the overflow drain line or the _equipment_-supplied drain pan, located at a point higher than the primary drain line connection and below the overflow rim of such pan.


----------



## ICE

I have allowed it many times. I ask the question because of the potential for crap to build up in the pan and if the secondary opens the crap will clog the drain hole. Recently I encountered a pan that was filled with blown-in insulation.


----------



## Paul Sweet

M1411.3.1 requires a secondary drain OR auxiliary drain pan.  An auxiliary drain pan wouldn't be required if the secondary drain went directly outside.


----------



## mtlogcabin

Would you purchase this house?


----------



## my250r11

Some peoples children, lol:indecisiveness:


----------



## jdfruit

post #1985: give me a big enough price reduction and I might be interested.


----------



## Msradell

> Would you purchase this house?


Somebody didn't quite read the plans right!


----------



## jdfruit

Post #1989: brings back memories when I would tell the offending homeowner to pull it out, start over, don't glue it just dry fit, will look again before allowed to glue up & test. If you don't get it right in 3 more tries, then hire a licensed plumber. Gunshot wouldn't beat the phone call back to the office. Glad I'm retired now, but have one more client to get finished and doing the "dry fit" routine with the owner/builder right now.


----------



## conarb

JD:

How's the hot rod shop going?  You have land up north to do it, where?  Are you really going to build hot rods like we did in the 40s?  Are there customers willing and able?  I notice that some are being sold in *classic car showrooms*  for pretty good money.


----------



## jdfruit

Conarb - still fixing up house to sell so no mortgage payment when I relocate. My wife of 44+ years retires this June. I like the 40's 50's & 60's style hot rods. Not worried about customers, will build what I like.


----------



## conarb

> Conarb - still fixing up house to sell so no mortgage payment when I relocate. My wife of 44+ years retires this June. I like the 40's 50's & 60's style hot rods. Not worried about customers' date=' will build what I like. [/quote']You're a newly wed by my standards, today is my wife's 82nd birthday so I took her and the kid to the new *Diller Scofidio + Renfro Berkeley Art Museum*, I don't like it nearly as much as the older *Mario Ciampi Brutalist museum*, even though they have reinforced the Ciampi museum with lots of ugly steel they still have abandoned it because of seismic concerns. We are so concerned about safety today that we are destroying beautiful architecture and cars, after 2017 FCA is discontinuing the Viper even though the new ACR has broken the record on every track it has run on, but because of a government mandate for side airbags that they say they can't meet they are discontinuing the car, they could continue it with a roadster/targa exception but the guys who race want a coupe.  Whether it's buildings, cars, airplanes, or anything else too much safety destroys the quality of life.


----------



## jdfruit

It's a matter of acceptable risk and a majority of people today don't want to risk something they don't understand; like cars. I have talked to and seen people with the most unrealistic expectations for cars, houses, appliances, and other every day items. A lot of them will be good candidates for fully automatic self driving cars, and thankfully they will not be in control on the roadway. We have lost what used to be known as common sense and respect for the physics involved with our every day things. I think the culprit is changing society, parents don't usually have enough time to teach the kids about things like cars, they send them to a driving school, then wonder why the kid has to call three A because the dash panel is telling them a tire is low.


----------



## ICE

No permit of any sort.






I don't have permission to be here....so if anybody asks, I'm not there but this is where the dirt pile is going.







The soil does not look like any soil in this area. It looks like sand with a fair amount if silt and clay. It should compact really well. They are half way to leveling out the back yard....all they need now is a retaining wall to hold it in.

A few days later:


----------



## ICE

The neighbor has a discharge problem.




By the looks of the splatter pattern, it comes out with some force.




I can't tell what it is but it's green and that's a good sign...right?


----------



## ICE

I have never seen a girder splice done like this.


----------



## steveray

I have seen that splice a year ago or so...Maybe HD is doing a timber frame class now?


----------



## my250r11

I would have to say ?ell NO! :hororr:


----------



## ICE

They requested a framing inspection. This was the first thing that I noticed.







The other end of the rafters defies description....and that is what the correction notice says.




The guy that met me is just a guy that meets people. He called the "contractor". That would be a contractor that has the owner pull the permits. When I asked him if he was the contractor he said nope "I am the job superintendent". He wanted to know what was wrong. Well there's enough wrong that I told him that it would have to come down and start over. For example there is a 20' opening with a 4"x10" that supports ceiling joists from two sides and rafters from two sides. The plans call for a MicroLam LVL.

The owner was within hearing distance and wanted to know why I let them install the wrong beam.... wrong headers, wrong hardware, wrong king posts, etc.  I was asked if we missed an inspection of the material before it is installed.  All I could think of was, "You picked the wrong crew."


----------



## steveray

Less than 3 pitch?

*R802.2 Design and construction. *The framing details required in Section R802 apply to roofs having a minimum slope of three units vertical in 12 units horizontal (25-percent slope) or greater.

Where the roof pitch is less than three units vertical in 12 units horizontal (25-percent slope), structural members that support rafters and ceiling joists, such as ridge beams, hips and valleys, shall be designed as beams.

The funny thing is it tells you you cannot use 802, but it does not say what to use...


----------



## ICE

Jeff,
The first 12 posts of this thread got messed up during the forum swap.  They don't make sense without the correct picture.  I can't edit so do me a favor and delete the first 12 posts.

Thanks


----------



## ICE

This is a disconnect for a roof mounted package unit.  The outlet box to the right has a receptacle.  It won't be a deadly receptacle until something is plugged in and turned on.

It's not that easy to pack so many violations in such a small space.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

What's wrong with this picture?




Well that would be this:


----------



## jar546

ICE said:


> Jeff,
> The first 12 posts of this thread got messed up during the forum swap.  They don't make sense without the correct picture.  I can't edit so do me a favor and delete the first 12 posts.
> 
> Thanks


I'm out of town, I'll help you correct it when I get back.  Make sure you have the correct pictures


----------



## jar546

OK Ice, now a moderator, edit away.


----------



## ICE

Thanks for that Jeff.  I was able to fix the first post.  Not all that easy because I have to go to an old computer and look through 4,110 pictures.  I found this picture near the front of the file but some of the others may never be found.


----------



## ICE

As people find threads with missing or wrong pictures....if you tell me about it I may be able to fix it.


----------



## ICE

The inspection was related to a bathroom remodel.  I wasn't afraid because there's a padlock on the door.



And the light is on.



I couldn't take pictures once I was inside but oh my what a place it is.  There's not a square inch that isn't covered by some knickknack.


----------



## ICE

In post #1996 there was a dirt pile that caught my attention.  I wrote a correction slip that asked the owner to contact me.  I also advised that the fence was not a retaining wall and to not pile dirt against it.
Here is before:



This is after:



I don't like it when I am ignored...but I can't let it bother me because it happens a lot.  I am not convinced that the 20" of dirt that has been added is a big deal.  Worth noting is that the other properties that abut the alley have a fence a little bit West of this guy.  H'm, I wonder if he has crossed the property line.  Like I said, I don't like it when I am ignored.


----------



## ICE

The mechanical contractor called me at 8:15 am and asked me what time I was going to arrive for his inspection.  I told him that it would happen between 9 and noon.  He asked me to delay as long as I could so that he can round up a ladder.

I got there around 2:00pm.

Obviously I was too early.




It appears that the plenum is the support for the package unit.  He told me that it is a new way doing it and he will come up with the installation instructions that show this.  I wonder if the instructions show the unit tilted to follow the roof pitch.


----------



## MtnArch

ICE said:


> I wonder if the instructions show the unit tilted to follow the roof pitch.



It makes the rain water run off the top easier!


----------



## ICE

I think that it might be tough on the bearing when the fan is tilted.  Really just a guess on my part.


----------



## my250r11

He didn't really want you to inspect it by the looks of the ladder!


----------



## ICE

The electrician said that he didn't knock the vent loose.  What a slug.  Either way, he's an idiot that doesn't know any better.


----------



## ICE

General contractor doing the electrical work.




17 staples in less than 4 feet.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> General contractor doing the electrical work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 17 staples in less than 4 feet.


You can't say that is not supported!


----------



## conarb

Are too many staples a violation of the Tiger Code?


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> Are too many staples a violation of the Tiger Code?


Yes. I'll get a picture after it is corrected.







And check it out conarb, when there is a violation of the Tiger Code there is almost always a load of California Code violations as well.  How many do you see here?


----------



## conarb

When you write up a Tiger code violation what do you cite, for instance here?


----------



## ICE

Never do I write a code section.  In this case the correction said to place a block 8" above the outlet and staple the cable individually and flat, a minimum 1/2" apart. I was talking with the contractor so I explained what bundled wire is all about so he's going to avoid that too.  That will fix the four or five code violations present.

When it comes to ceiling joist over bearing walls the correction says: "Place full depth blocking between the ceiling joist."


----------



## conarb

Tiger said:
			
		

> When it comes to ceiling joist over bearing walls the correction says: "Place full depth blocking between the ceiling joist."



What size are those ceiling joists than you are going to make him block?


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> What size are those ceiling joists?



Well of course that would be the size that he installed.  You know conarb, nobody has balked at doing it.  Even tract builders.  They always get  a sheepish look and say, "We missed that"?  Generally, that correction is in a pile of corrections so that should tell you something about the builder.  If for no other reason that to thwart warping and cupping it is a solid idea.

Keep in mind that the code is the bare minimum.  Contractors that want to do more for their customer field block as well.  You can't deny that field blocks add strength to a ceiling and especially a floor.  I have seen it done with rafters.  I can remember doing that myself.  I see blocking in 8' stud walls....blocks do have a place.

I should start a Blocking thread.


----------



## conarb

But you can't do that, all you can enforce is the minimum code, we are already way over-regulated, doesn't make sense that you drive costs up even higher than code drives them up.  Did you see the article I posted about the governor agreeing with a proposal to suspend codes for affordable housing?  If that works maybe codes could be suspended for all work if there are architects and engineers inspecting their work.


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> But you can't do that



Few people involved with construction have any code knowledge.  They learn by corrections.  A few times a year a contractor will tell me that he has learned more from me that all the other inspectors he has dealt with.  So now and then I give them a little extra.


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> Did you see the article I posted about the governor agreeing with a proposal to suspend codes for affordable housing?  If that works maybe codes could be suspended for all work if there are architects and engineers inspecting their work.



You can't be serious.  Architects and engineers know less about residential building codes than do the builders.  And the Governor and his cronies .... look at what they've done to the solar industry.  PV has become a free for all, wild west, slam the crap on as many roofs as possible before anyone figures out what a boondoggle it is.  Inspectors were mostly removed from the process and it shows.


----------



## ICE

The permit states "remove siding, stucco, install rock veneer.  This is the first inspection.








Round 2.




They omitted nail plates at round one and they still haven't flashed the windows.  The only window that's a real problem is the last on the right.  The others are under a five foot overhang.  There are three bottom plates for most of it and the first two are shot.


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> You can't be serious.  Architects and engineers know less about residential building codes than do the builders.  And the Governor and his cronies .... look at what they've done to the solar industry.  PV has become a free for all, wild west, slam the crap on as many roofs as possible before anyone figures out what a boondoggle it is.  Inspectors were mostly removed from the process and it shows.


Did you read the article?   It's one thing enforcing codes that drive prices up, but when it comes to affordable housing "poor" people get special privileges just like all members of suspect classes, even though, like bicyclists, poor people get privileges without being listed as a suspect class.  

have no idea how it's going to work out, maybe the AHJs will still plan check and inspect and waive fees.  While making contractors block ceiling joists doesn't sound like a big deal, it still slows things down and does add costs.


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> it still slows things down and does add costs.



As does everything that I do.


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> As does everything that I do.


I guess that's the reason for the proposals to eliminate inspections in affordable housing.


----------



## ICE

Affordable housing with no codes is what is found in the third world.


----------



## ICE

So you know what it should look like.




So you don't know what it should look like.


----------



## ICE

Signs of indecision.



	

		
			
		

		
	
 [


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> So you know what it should look like.


Okay, I give up, do you know what they are doing with this contraption inside? It has to be a classic!


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> .
> 
> 
> So you don't know what it should look like.


They certainly laid it very straight! What is it down in the trenches? It looks like conduit wrapped with something but I'm not sure what it would be wrapped with.


----------



## Wayne

It looks like it's wrapped with ten mil tape. They make products to protect copper pipe which is what I assume it to be.


----------



## steveray

*TABLE 706.3 FITTINGS FOR CHANGE IN DIRECTION*

*TYPE OF FITTING PATTERN* *CHANGE IN DIRECTION
Horizontal to vertical* *Vertical to horizontal* *Horizontal to horizontal*
Sixteenth bend  X X X
Eighth bend  X X X
Sixth bend  X X X
Quarter bend  X Xa Xa
Short sweep  X Xa,b Xa
Long sweep  X X X
Sanitary tee  Xc — —......Sanitary tees not allowed on horizontal for drainage....
Wye  X X X
Combination wye
and eighth bend  X X X

And probably...*905.3 Vent connection to drainage system.* Every dry vent connecting to a horizontal drain shall connect above the centerline of the horizontal drain pipe.


----------



## ICE

Msradell said:


> Okay, I give up, do you know what they are doing with this contraption inside? It has to be a classic!



The conduit on the left is an existing service entrance riser that was cut off.  The new service is around the corner from the original which has become a junction box.  So the circuits have been extended through the old riser, across the roof for a foot and down to the top of the new service.


----------



## ICE

Msradell said:


> They certainly laid it very straight! What is it down in the trenches? It looks like conduit wrapped with something but I'm not sure what it would be wrapped with.



That is fletcher coated gas pipe that has been field wrapped for it's entire length.


----------



## steveray

Fletcher coated?


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> And probably...*905.3 Vent connection to drainage system.* Every dry vent connecting to a horizontal drain shall connect above the centerline of the horizontal drain pipe.



Then there is the short sweep downstream of the san-tee.  The vent should be rolled but doing so would put it out of the floor.


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> Fletcher coated?



Well I knew what it meant.


----------



## mtlogcabin

Fletcher Coating is a powder coating company for underground piping,
That looks more a protective wrap


----------



## ICE

Working right along without a permit.




The hapless homeowner hired a Home Depot parking lot crew.




That's the garage and of course they denied roofing it.




I screwed up when I stopped.


----------



## ICE

Today was the third trip and not much progress has been made.  The last time there was supposed to be a pressure test....the gauge read zero PSI.  Today there was another attempt at a pressure test.  The gauge reads maxed out but there is no pressure in the pipe.  I always release a bit of air to see if the gauge works.  As you can see they don't know how to treat CSST.




I called the contractor.  A receptionist transfered me to "one of the Installation Managers".  That guy did not know what CSST is.  I told him that the CSST must be removed and hard pipe installed.  He said that I can't do that if they are able to install the CSST correctly.  So I scared the homeowner with the truth....she will demand that the CSST be removed.


----------



## ICE

What do you think about trimmers installed like this?


----------



## conarb

But look at all the trees they saved. I read an article once by the eminent building scientist Joe Lstiburek that recommended some thing like that, I decided to check our Green Code and see if his recommendations made it in but they didn't:



			
				2013 California Gren Code said:
			
		

> *SECTION A5.404
> EFFICIENT FRAMING TECHNIQUES
> AS.404.1 Wood framing. *Employ advanced wood framing
> techniques or OVE, as recommended by the U.S. Department
> of Energy's Office of Building Technology, State and Community
> Programs and as permitted by the enforcing agency.
> 
> *AS.404.1.1 Structural or fire-resistance integrity.* The
> OVE selected shall not conflict with structural framing
> methods or fire-rated assemblies required by the _California
> Building Code._
> 
> *AS.404.1.2 Framing specifications. *Advanced framing
> techniques include the following:
> 1. Building design using 2-foot modules;
> 
> 2. Spacing wall studs up to 24 inches on center;
> 
> 3. Spacing floor and roof framing members up to 24
> inches on center;
> 
> 4. Using 2-stud comer framing and drywall clips or
> scrap lumber for drywall backing;
> 
> 5. Eliminating solid headers in non-load-bearing walls;
> 
> 6. Using in-line framing, aligning floor, wall and roof
> framing members vertically for direct transfer of
> loads; and
> 
> 7. Using single lumber headers and top plates where
> appropriate.
> 
> *Note:* Additional information can be obtained from the
> U.S. DOE Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy
> (EERE) website.



While I'm in the Green Code I'm posting other things a good Tiger would check for:



			
				2013 California Green Code said:
			
		

> *AS.40S.2.2 Rapidly renewable materials.* Use materials
> made from plants harvested within a ten-year cycle for at
> least 2.5 percent of total materials value, based on estimated
> cost.
> 
> *AS.40S.3 Reused materials*. Use salvaged, refurbished, refinished
> or reused materials for a minimum of 5 percent of the
> total value, based on estimated cost of materials on the project.
> Provide documentation as to the respective values.
> 
> *Note:* Sources of some reused materials can be found at
> CalRecycle. See also Appendix A5, Division A5.I, Section
> A5.105.1 for on-site materials reuse.



I might point out that much of these requirements are "Voluntary Measures", at least in this cycle; however you better start checking for it because it may be a portion of Green Code compliance.


----------



## TheCommish

I like it, the is no reason to waste all the wood we put in to frames, split  jacks carry the load just fine, the small opening (Less the 8 feet)  with double jacks, king stud and a  jack under the sill is a waste. BTY why do they put double sills, the is no need for that either there is no need for piles of studs at intersections, move the window to take advantage of the lay out, leave the extra stud out gives better insulation coverage


----------



## ICE

This is an email that I received after I left a notice at the front door regarding a plumbing permit for a water heater that is about to expire. 

"You left a notice at the above address regarding a plumbing permit that's about to expire.  If it's related to the A/C Installation I did there more than 5 years ago, you inspected this installation.  You might remember I had the pressure gauge in the hole where the old floor furnace was and I pressurized with 60 psi of nitrogen (I told you it hadn't moved in 2 days).  You bled down to 15 psi and passed it.  I remember telling you that LIQUID nitrogen at 70 degrees produces 10,000 psi of pressure.  Do you remember this?  Does this resolve the open permit?"


----------



## Paul Sweet

My main concern with the trimmers in #2047 is all the cross-grain lumber will shrink more than the full stud next to them, so the full studs will end up taking all the load.  That's OK for the narrow windows, but could be a problem on the wider windows if there is a floor above.


----------



## ICE

There's been an anonymous complaint about "a carport built to the property line without a permit".




There is a permit from the dawn of time for a house and no separate permit for a carport.  It appears as though the carport came with the house.




Now if the person that complained knew how to play the game they would have said, "Excuse me but I see something.  This guy built a patio cover without a permit"


----------



## ICE




----------



## steveray

ICE...The first pic in 2045, is it mainly the nailing about 2" down from the top of the shingle that is the issue or is there something else I am not seeing right now?


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> ICE...The first pic in 2045, is it mainly the nailing about 2" down from the top of the shingle that is the issue or is there something else I am not seeing right now?


The first picture shows the paper under the valley flashing....the next picture shows that they forgot it.


----------



## ICE

The house bends but the roof doesn't.


----------



## tmurray

wow...just...wow


----------



## steveray

ICE said:


> The first picture shows the paper under the valley flashing....the next picture shows that they forgot it.


*The paper under is not required....no? And the parallel runs are over.....

R905.2.8.2 Valleys.* Valley linings shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's installation instructions before applying shingles. Valley linings of the following types shall be permitted:
1. For open valleys (valley lining exposed) lined with metal, the valley lining shall be at least 24 inches (610 mm) wide and of any of the corrosion-resistant metals in Table R905.2.8.2.


----------



## ICE

6-23-16
Good Afternoon Mr. ######,

I am the homeowner at 9484 ******** Avenue in #######.  You recently inspected the roof on June 20. You wrote that singles may not be put on the house because the pitch is too small (1.5 inches). 

I am in the middle of a refi with this house and want/need to get the roof done by the appraisal date (July 1).  Therefore, I had some questions.

1)  Is there an adjustment I can make to the roof that would allow me to use shingles?  I see numerous homes in my neighborhood with the same roof as me.  They all have shingles so I am wondering what changes were made to pass inspection.

2)  Rolled roofing is, well, very unattractive and I fear it would lower the value or appeal of this home should I choose to sell in the future.  Could extra layers of felt be used before putting on shingles?

Respectfully,

******* *******

6-24-16
Mr. ********,

Unfortunately, shingles are not permitted below a 2” in 12” pitch.  The fact that there are dwellings with a low pitch that have shingles may be due to a lack of a permit or a mistake made by all parties involved.

Rolled roofing is not the only option as a rock roof would be allowed.

##### #######


6-24-16
Thank you for your response Mr. ######.
With all due respect, all of the homes in the area are shingled.  Having a rock roof would make my house stick out like a sore thumb.  It is not aesthetically pleasing.  Furthermore, it releases harmful fumes when being put on, and, having a son with asthma who is sensitive to air quality, I have concerns about that. When I bought the house it had a new roof that was shingled.  All I want to do is the same thing as all of the homes in my neighborhood.  If every other home is allowed to have shingles, including mine before the tear-off, even with a pitch that is 1/2 inch too low, I really don't understand why this is a problem if I do that.  I understand your point about building codes, but if I am being held to that standard then shouldn't everyone else?  Also, it escaped the city's attention that so many homes were shingled and shouldn't have been?  I am trying to do right here by pulling permits and doing everything out in the open, yet I am now on my 10th day without a roof and all of the material is sitting on top of my house.  That just isn't right.
Respectfully,
******* *******

6-29-16
Nothing to report.


----------



## steveray

Amazing how willing people are to do it wrong....


----------



## tmurray

Rip some 2Xs on an angle. throw some plywood sheathing on top.  Congratulations, you can now use shingles. Don't want to do that? Well, don't use shingles then. I often wonder how hard life is for stupid people. It must be horrible.


----------



## mtlogcabin

Most banks will not accept rolled roofing as an approved material for financing purposes

Instead of installing 2 layers of 15# felt as an under-layment for asphalt shingles as required by the code the homeowner could use self adhering ice and water shield as an under-layment for the entire roof prior to installing shingles. Wind driven rain is the problem with low slope roofs and asphalt shingles and the fact there is no warranty on a roof with less than a 2/12 pitch


----------



## my250r11

Could use a metal roof, but that costs more but many poeple think it looks nicer and less maintainance.


----------



## conarb

What I don't understand about the inspector's suggestions is why he didn't suggest something we've done forever, usually on 4:12 pitch homes that have porches where the pitch flattens out. namely install roll roofing and apply the shingles on top of the roll roofing.  It is mandatory now to install a light-colored roll roofing under tile roofing of all pitches, apparently an energy code thingy to reflect heat up to save the planet.


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> What I don't understand about the inspector's suggestions is why he didn't suggest something we've done forever, usually on 4:12 pitch homes that have porches where the pitch flattens out. namely install roll roofing and apply the shingles on top of the roll roofing.  It is mandatory now to install a light-colored roll roofing under tile roofing of all pitches, apparently an energy code thingy to reflect heat up to save the planet.



Quoting Tommy, the oldest Henderson boy, "here's the thing about that".  We're not dealing with a porch.

By the way, when shingles are applied on a pitch below 2" the warranty is void.  If shingles are applied over roll roofing, two warranties are void.


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> Quoting Tommy, the oldest Henderson boy, "here's the thing about that".  We're not dealing with a porch.
> 
> By the way, when shingles are applied on a pitch below 2" the warranty is void.  If shingles are applied over roll roofing, two warranties are void.


I never pay any attention to warranties, getting a manufacturer of construction products to honor a warranty costs more than just paying to fix it yourself.  An example, most caulking has a warranty of 50 years written on each tube, read the mall print, you have to provide a copy of the receipt for each tube, you also have to provide the actual computer code cut  from each tube, if you succeed they limit their liability to the cost of each tub and specifically reject any consequential damages, so you get $4.95 from the manufacturer and can have millions of dollars in mold damages..

  Another example, I was doing ADA work on a large Catholic church, other things came up like leaks in copper flashings, looking at them it became obvious that large areas of the clay tile were deteriorating badly, the roof was within the 20 year warranty, I contacted the original contractors and they had no documentation of the purchase of the tile 20 years earlier, each tile had the name of the manufacturer stamped into the tile, the manufacturer declined to honor the warranty based on the lack of documentation, unbelievably the architect for the archdiocese wanted to reroof the church with the same tile even though they had just declined the warranty so they paid all over again (the architect determined that the failure was due to some bad clay from a bad pit) .

Another example, I never put caulking behind window fins even though flashing and window manufacturers all require it, the reason is my experience has shown that caulking lasts an average of 7 years on the weather side in this area (longer on other elevations), I water test all windows before any siding or stucco goes on (but after the lath), caulking will temporarily seal the window, if there are any leaks I want to know now, not 9 years later, plus good contractors never use caulking (I started in this business before caulking was invented), so none of my buildings have warrantied windows.


----------



## ICE

I don't think that it's called ADA work when it takes place at a church.


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> I don't think that it's called ADA work when it takes place at a church.


It was, it was voluntary, but there is another reason, if a church rents out space to others it is considered a public accommodation and must be ADA compliant, I can't rent any car and smoke my cigars in it because California has ruled that car rentals are public accommodations, my voting place changed about 5 years ago to a local Episcopal church, a voting place certainty has to be ADA compliant. BTW, permit fees were double normal residential permit fees, I asked why and the CBO told me churches are considered commercial enterprises and pay the higher commercial permit fees.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

Service entrance conduit.


----------



## ICE

It costs a lot to look that cheap.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

They must think that the drought is going to last forever.


----------



## ICE

Burt, where's the correction notice?  I don't know Ernie, I thought that you had it.  I don't have it Burt, can you remember what it said to do at the water heater?  Sure thing Ernie, it said to jumper cold to cold to gas pipes.


----------



## ICE

Solar contractor.

Grounding electrode:

https://flic.kr/p/JPswUg


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

I haven't seen one of these before now and I think it might not be installed quite like the instructions specify.  It might make a difference...could be a big difference considering that this is a tract of 100 houses.....well it's not my tract to deal with and I was there for under-slab plumbing.  Actually, it never rains in Southern California and there's only four of these on each house.....two dozen houses are done and it hasn't been a problem so far.




And would you look at that....the instructions are right there on the front....with a picture.




I don't know about you guys but I prefer that there not be any foam wrap at the under-slab plumbing inspection.

I am also not a fan of re-bar against the ABS.


----------



## my250r11

ICE said:


>


Dumb people engineering has always amazed me!!


----------



## ICE

The poor man might be sicker than he realizes.  We didn't have an agreement and we are not in Los Angeles.


----------



## ICE

Twice this week I had to refuse an inspection because the equipment was left open and unattended.


----------



## ICE

A lady called to complain that a new roof went on her house and the painting contractor has refused to paint the overhang because there is rotten wood.  She want's to know why I would approve such a thing.  I said, "Who Me?"


----------



## ICE

Another aluminum patio cover under a service drop.




The contractor thinks that one lag bolt into the end-grain of rafter tails 2' apart is a solid connection.



Apparently they ran out of the correct material.


----------



## ICE

The job is an 800 sqft addition and a new roof structure on the remaining 1200 sqft.
All of the sheathing suffers from countersunk nails.  The worst I have encountered.



The usual scenario is some of the nails are over-driven.  In this case it is every nail.


----------



## my250r11

Never seems they can get it right the first time, even worse they are there and only do some, one or none.Would been more cost effective to do right the first time.


----------



## ICE

The arc is a sign.



People buy this stuff.


----------



## steveray

The building or the crap? Oh, wait...it's the same.....


----------



## Pcinspector1

Somewhere on this forum, I've seen that brown felt hat on someones nugget!


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

I was there to inspect the roof sheathing for a re-roof.  I really don't want to mess with this.  But gosh it's so close to the neighbors house.  It must be a Helluva racket when it rains.


----------



## ICE

A talented woodworker.


----------



## steveray

If they would only make that carport out of magnesium, it could be a little worse for the neighbor...


----------



## Pcinspector1

Must have misread the setback requirements, 8-ft was changed to 8-inches. At least the carport is non combustible for what that's worth.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE, post #2089, not sure what I'm seeing on that roof, support for a gas pipe?


----------



## ICE

Bootlegged patio covers are problem.  Planning dept. approval is required and then a permit.  An easy $1000 tossed down a rat hole.  So I understand why they build without us.  I am actually surprised that we have to regulate them.  What we should do is publish the setbacks and plans for a variety of patio covers.  And then stay out of it.  If and when we find a crap patio cover that did not follow our simple rules it gets torn down.









If it gives up it's in the pool.


----------



## conarb

Pcinspector1 said:


> Somewhere on this forum, I've seen that brown felt hat on someones nugget!


I think you saw that hat on our one and only Uncle Bob, I miss the old guy.  I like your AT6 avatar, I've got a few hours in one.


----------



## steveray

Won't be a pool at that point it will be a hot tub.....


----------



## conarb

steveray said:


> Won't be a pool at that point it will be a hot tub.....


Scientists keep telling us that we have a massive overpopulation problem, this pool should help alleviate that problem.


----------



## Pcinspector1

conarb, Amazing plane, still love to hear that prop cut the air!


----------



## ICE

Service upgrade by a solar contractor.  The bottom 50 amp breakers are labeled "spare".




Each breaker has a #6 landed so I asked the contractor where the other end of the wires are terminated.  He said that he doesn't know.  From here they go to the previous service enclosure which is now a j-box.  There they splice and disappear into the wall.  He assured me that everything works with the breakers in the open position so they are obviously spares.


----------



## Msradell

I'd love to hear the answer if he was asked why he bothered connecting it if it was a spare?


----------



## JCraver

ICE said:


> Service upgrade by a solar contractor.  The bottom 50 amp breakers are labeled "spare".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Each breaker has a #6 landed so I asked the contractor where the other end of the wires are terminated.  He said that he doesn't know.  From here they go to the previous service enclosure which is now a j-box.  There they splice and disappear into the wall.  He assured me that everything works with the breakers in the open position so they are obviously spares.





Why no arc-faults?

.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Is there a range in this house and what size breaker is being used? Is the double fitty going to a sub?


----------



## ICE

Msradell said:


> I'd love to hear the answer if he was asked why he bothered connecting it if it was a spare?


I did ask and got no answer.


----------



## ICE

JCraver said:


> Why no arc-faults?
> 
> .


The circuit were extended about 3' in EMT on the outside of the building.  Under those circumstances we do not require ARC fault protection.


----------



## ICE

Side view:


----------



## ICE




----------



## steveray

I don't know that I can call a violation on either of those grounding pics, except for the metal raceway for the GEC has to be bonded at both ends....? Or maybe the pipe wasn't clean? Or the first one if they trimmed to fit...


----------



## ICE

It is the number of strands under the set screw.....should be seven.


----------



## steveray

7....3...5....They are all prime numbers...Geez! you are sooooo picky....


----------



## ICE

15' away is this mess on the neighbor's house.


----------



## steveray

Monkey see....monkey do....do.....

And paint the gas pipe to prevent corrosion...


----------



## Paul Sweet

Must be nice to not have to worry about freezing.


----------



## ICE

The neighbor is upset because it is too close to the property line.  I'm not upset because he didn't get a permit.


----------



## steveray

What?...It is not a patio cover! It's a plant shelf that just happens to be over a patio!....


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE, I can't find that patio bracket in the Simpson catalog and if it is it will have at least twenty more holes in it!


----------



## ICE

Check the Ikea catalog.


----------



## ICE

The contractor that did this became indignant and demanded a code section for each correction that I wrote.


----------



## ICE

Twice this week I encountered a service panel left open and unattended.  In both cases the contractor's rep was waiting in their car.  In both cases I refused to do an inspection.

The first guy was the contractor that did the work.  I went back on that job today.  He thanked me for burning him and said that there is no excuse for being so dangerous.





The second guy told me that I am crazy.


----------



## ICE

When you can't miss that footing....


----------



## ICE

Years ago I wrote a correction for a roofer to clean the gutter.  Well there is no code for that.  I was on the hot seat for doing that.  I get the feeling that many contractors were raised by wolves.


----------



## ICE

The conduit is 1.5" above the roof for about 30'.  I wrote a correction to de-rate the amperage capacity of the wire because of heat.  The contractor keeps telling me that there aren't too many wires in the conduit.  I keep saying that is true but....I'm not getting through to him.


----------



## tmurray

I have a mantra for dealing with certain contractors and designers who are ... liberal ... with their interpretation of the code: It's not necessary that they agree, only that they comply.

Most people want to do good work and build good buildings, so I can just explain how building it to code is better than what they had done. They see the advantage and build that way from then on. Other folks need a little more "motivation" so I save this for them.


----------



## ICE

Well Flipper had to remove a bunch of drywall on a bootlegged addition.  Here is a good example of why we make them do it.


----------



## ICE

It might have been windy that day.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Sheeting needs more fasteners (nails) and the plywood gap should not exceed 1/8". Roofing nails being used to install roof sheeting from the size of those nail heads I suspect, can't tell from the photo's.

Need confirmation.


----------



## Pcinspector1

post #2124
Dislodged vent line, possible dissimilar metal issue, GFCI receptacle box could have been legally installed if studs and drywall were installed prior to electrical work but if not, MC cable should have been attached to stud and not loose in the wall, metal studs maybe over cut.

Ice, please confirm code violations


----------



## JBI

On the dirty gutters... 2 points of attack:
1 - The Code requires work to be done in a workmanlike manner.
   Leaving the mess behind is not workmanlike
2 - The contract for the job (probably) requires the contractor to leave the work area 'broom clean' at the end of the project (or each day in many cases). 
   The gutter is not 'broom clean'.


----------



## conarb

My average day, I went to lunch at a hot dog place yesterday, I got up to go to the bathroom setting my drink on top of my newspaper so someone wouldn't think I had left and take my newspaper, newspapers cost $1.50 now.  When I came back the paper was gone, a good looking redhead sitting nearby pointed to a heavyset guy reading the paper telling me that he had taken it.  I went over to him and said: "Hey that's my paper, buy your own damn paper."  He sheepishly gave me the paper.  When he was done he went outside and lit a cigarette standing there, when he was done he threw the cigarette in the lot and climbed into a little white hybrid car and drove off, on the door of the car it had our county logo with the words "Department of Conservation and Development" under the logo.  That's what they call the building department now, a building inspector had stolen my newspaper!


----------



## Pcinspector1

conarb,

Was it a LA Times in large print? if so, no big loss, I'd talk to the redhead instead!


----------



## conarb

Pcinspector1 said:


> conarb,
> 
> Was it a LA Times in large print? if so, no big loss, I'd talk to the redhead instead!



PC Inspector, you may be right, building inspectors are usually good guys, not thieves, I've seen her before, she may have put him up to it to try to start a conversation and pick me up, we have to watch those redheads, especially if they think you have money.  More interesting than Tiger's average day though.


----------



## my250r11

I don't know its close lol, I see some weird crap on my inspections but ICE gets some REALLY weird ones. I only do building, my elec, and plbg,mech not to good yet so seeing his stuff does help. But some of those I dont always see all the violations.


----------



## ICE

From the rod it goes to a water main at the front.  HVAC contractors are not the best when it comes to service upgrades.


----------



## ICE

These are on the front of a house.  I do not know what they are for.  Do you?





The one on the left is dripping water.


----------



## conarb

my250r11 said:


> I don't know its close lol, I see some weird crap on my inspections but ICE gets some REALLY weird ones. I only do building, my elec, and plbg,mech not to good yet so seeing his stuff does help. But some of those I dont always see all the violations.



That's becasue Tiger seems to just inspect the work of a bankrupt solar company, no matter how much tax payer money goes to them they can't afford to hire compeant people to work for them.



			
				Mercury News said:
			
		

> SAN MATEO -- Facing mounting losses, SolarCity on Wednesday announced a corporate restructuring, including layoffs and slashed executive pay.
> 
> The San Mateo solar panel installer is setting aside $3 million to $5 million for restructuring, primarily to pay for severance payments, the company told regulators. Most of the buyout packages will be paid this year. The company also cut the salaries of co-founders Lyndon and Peter Rive from $275,000 to $1.
> 
> SolarCity, the largest residential solar installer in the United States, employs about 13,000 workers. It serves 285,000 customers in about 20 states and the District of Columbia.
> 
> SolarCity spokeswoman Kady Cooper said the company would not release details about the cuts. While sales have improved, she said, the company still fell short of expectations for the first half of the year. SolarCity revenues grew 80 percent during the most recent quarter, but it still had net losses of $55 million in the second quarter. The company has yet to turn a profit.¹



Maybe they'll blame the building inspectors in bankruptcy court for their failures. 

¹ http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_30259072/solarcity-laying-off-workers-restructuring


----------



## ICE

I haven't seen many Solar City installations lately.  They threatened to boycott my area several times in the past few years....so maybe they did it.

One cost that they could avoid is permit fees on jobs that get canceled.  I expire a dozen or, more each year.  I called them a few years ago and asked them if they want to apply for a refund but so far they haven't.  Country wide that could be a lot of money.


----------



## Wayne

ICE said:


> These are on the front of a house.  I do not know what they are for.  Do you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The one on the left is dripping water.


Zurn wall hydrant in a weird place.  Don't normally see them on houses and two together is strange.  I put them in restroom walls for the custodians to use


----------



## Builder Bob

http://www.jrsmith.com/uploads/fileLibrary/JR_HydrantBroch.SPM2147-1411.pdf

Wayne beat me to it...


----------



## steveray

Hot and cold for washing their cars?


----------



## conarb

Tiger:

You may have a problem with those, I don't know where it is in the codes but on a home I built in Moraga in 2003 I had one write-up at final, no backflow devices on the hose bibs.  

What have I done, given Tiger another reason to fail contractors?


----------



## ICE

I have never written a violation for a missing back-flow device on a hose bib.   Ya I know how terrible I am for that.


----------



## Pcinspector1

conarb, 
"Don't poke the Tiger" he'll find some more violation on his own!


----------



## Pcinspector1

They appear to have an Anti-siphon on the back side. Curious how you attach a hose to them?


----------



## my250r11

Wayne said:


> Zurn wall hydrant in a weird place.  Don't normally see them on houses and two together is strange.  I put them in restroom walls for the custodians to use



See them alot for commercial and schools to keep people and kids from turning or using water.  Granted can use pliers but most of the time that is too much effort for pranksters.


----------



## ICE

This was being fed from a new service upgrade.  I wrote a correction to replace it because it is indoor equipment outdoors.




It's an improvement but they used the wrong raceway.  Well they are a solar company so when I say that it's an improvement I mean it.


----------



## steveray

Simpson says you should never see these in a joist hanger....






So Shirley you should never see these...


----------



## linnrg

ICE said:


> These are on the front of a house.  I do not know what they are for.  Do you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The one on the left is dripping water.


outside hose bib that turn on with a special key (if n thread then a quick connect) - found on commercial work keep people from borrowing water


----------



## my250r11

See what I mean, crazy stuff, don't know how the home owner hasn't done something. Blind maybe?


----------



## ICE

Some guys insist on wasting a gallon of tar.  They do this to brand new roof jacks.


----------



## ICE

There should be a picture of this in the NEC.  It seems that nobody understands these connectors.




Here's another one that eludes all but the brainiacs.


----------



## linnrg

post 2148
WOW    WOW   WOW!
the question is what all did you write up and did you be sure to mention the wire colors were no longer bright enough!


----------



## Paul Sweet

It wouldn't surprise me if the white wire was hot, and the neutral was the blue or red one.


----------



## mtlogcabin

https://video.search.yahoo.com/sear...=814005aa2e0026015569ae873f08f31b&action=view


----------



## ICE

HVAC contractor did an electric service upgrade.  The company has a C-10 license.







This is proof positive that a license doesn't mean much these days.


----------



## ICE

The correction stated that pucker is not allowed.





Sometimes pucker can't be helped.


----------



## ICE

The electrical contractor gave me a picture of the structural strap that he installed.  It seems that the HO was all over him to get the stucco patched.


----------



## steveray

Cut the green wire!


----------



## Pcinspector1

I thought McGyver always cuts the Red?


----------



## Pcinspector1

What's "pucker",  Is this real electrical talk or a west coast term?


----------



## steveray

Part of me would be puckering if I was cutting that service drop!.....But I believe it would refer to the buckling of the insulation on the inside of the bend that is too tight. No code section though...It exists, I just don't have it...


----------



## mtlogcabin

Pcinspector1 said:


> What's "pucker",  Is this real electrical talk or a west coast term?



*pucker factor*

The tightening to various degrees of the anal sphincter as a result of engaging in various acts of terror or daring. Often the use of a scale from 1 to 10 is applied to the term. A value of 1 is low and a value of 10 usually requires death or extreme disfigurement.
The “Pucker Factor” (PF) is a scale that seeks to measure fear by the force of contraction exerted on the sphincter muscles surrounding the anus during a given situation of danger. The scale is from 1 to 10.

1 is the normal level, while a 10 Pucker, or PF10, is an anal contraction so strong that it’s audible within a 2 meter radius. It is said to sound like a door being slammed. A 10 Pucker is also said to cause a popping in the ears because of the sudden change of internal pressure within the body. Depending upon the danger stimulus encountered, a Pucker condition can persist for hours, days or even weeks, causing constipation, irritation and other symptoms that vary by subject. A permanent state of 10 Pucker is known to exist in certain people. They are commonly referred to in the military as “Tight Asses,” and in spite of their chronic condition, are afforded little sympathy.


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> Part of me would be puckering if I was cutting that service drop!.....But I believe it would refer to the buckling of the insulation on the inside of the bend that is too tight. No code section though...It exists, I just don't have it...



300.34 Conductor Bending Radius. The conductor shall
not be bent to a radius less than 8 times the overall
diameter for nonshielded conductors or 12 times the
overall diameter for shielded or lead-covered conductors
during or after installation. For multiconductor or
multiplexed single-conductor cables having individually
shielded conductors, the minimum bending radius is 12
times the diameter of the individually shielded conductors
or 7 times the overall diameter, whichever is greater.


----------



## Pcinspector1

mtlogcabin, Just as I thought it's a west coast thing!

I hope you get lot's of snow!


----------



## my250r11

So much for concealed spaces being sealed


----------



## my250r11

This is in the garage of the apartments. They got one out of 6 right. The other 5 look like this at the last bay before entering the apartment. This is unconditioned space so the insulation needs to be below the sprinkler line like the rest of the garage.


----------



## my250r11

This is above where the post 2165 was taken and I can see down into the garage. Needless to say a re- inspection is required.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE, where's the commentary? Looks like you maybe on a ladder looking at an HVAC job with a drain pan that's been cut out for a GAS line. Maybe it's a meth lab operation?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> ICE, where's the commentary? Looks like you maybe on a ladder looking at an HVAC job with a drain pan that's been cut out for a GAS line. Maybe it's a meth lab operation?


I'd go with the first one.


----------



## steveray

It's just a steel to steel joint....Would you rather them use pipe dope?


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

If you fall off the roof, I guess you are screwed.


----------



## ICE

Alrighty then....it's a j-box.  The trouble with that is the conduit has to be removed to access the inside of the j-box.


----------



## steveray

250......I am pretty sure that the fireblock foam may be an issue with CPVC so watch out there....Look at blazemaster or Lubrizol's website (or flowguard) they are pretty specific as to what can touch CPVC...


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> 250......I am pretty sure that the fireblock foam may be an issue with CPVC so watch out there....Look at blazemaster or Lubrizol's website (or flowguard) they are pretty specific as to what can touch CPVC...


Okay so you are pretty sure that it may be a problem.  Now we need to know absolutely, positively for sure


----------



## Pcinspector1

post #2174, Good catch ICE!

How is the conduit or LB connected to your J-box? you can't get a lock nut on it!

If it looks wrong, probably is wrong.


----------



## my250r11

Steveray looks like your right, but the sprinklers are in the floor assembly and attic and where they penetrate the draftstopping they are fire taped on both sides, good catch tho I will keep that in mind.


----------



## steveray

Fire tape is OK for draftstopping IMO, but if the CPVC penetrates a rated assembly,  then it would need a listed penetration detail (probably with intumescent caulk)....And I would have to look again at fireblocking...


----------



## ICE

09/01/2016 was like every other average day.








I was there to inspect the insulation.  This was the first time that I have been on this job.  The contractor immediately tried to be a tall dog.  He tells me, "Hey man I don't mean to be a jerk but the other inspector approved the framing and all of the roughs".  So i'm thinking "Ya you are a jerk".  Then he says, "Sealing the plates is part of the framing inspection and comes before insulation so that the inspector can see the plates".  To which I replied, "We can discuss that in a moment but right now I need to write corrections".  And he lamented, Correctionssss".





The HVAC contractor couldn't resist destroying a couple studs.




By the time I was done, he was happy......that I was done.


----------



## steveray

In the last pic, is that some kind of hip beam ridiculously cut?....Other than that, improper nail plates, fireblocking, stud and possibly plate repair is all I got...


----------



## ICE

Checking to see if the electrician put in the jumper (cold , hot to gas) on a service upgrade can impact my opinion of the electrician.










It's a quick skid to the bottom when they tell me that they found it like this.


----------



## ICE

There is usually a rubber gasket associated with this flashing and for some reason this one is turned sideways.


----------



## ICE

The roofer explained that the owner wants him to dam up the end of this so that the rain water will enter the drain.  The drain is connected to the building sewer.


----------



## ICE

It was an easy enough day.  I did 13 inspections and only wrote 32 corrections.  Some days I can get near 32 on one inspection.

This inspection was for the condenser and coil.  I wrote a correction about the clear space required in front of the fused disconnect.




The fence is part of a dog pen.  I stepped in a pile of dog shlt on my way to her condo.  Every other condo has a similar pen with a barking dog.  Her's is a boxer.  A white boxer.  That's just wrong.  Boxers are supposed to be mostly brown.

Well I couldn't get to the coil because the contractor did not provide a ladder and the furnace is in an attic.  I was able to see the electrical panel.


----------



## ICE

This inspection is for a final on a re-roof.  The owner wants me to write a correction because the contractor didn't replace the plaster that covered the counter flashing prior to tearing off the old roofing.  He said that his wife is upset because they paid over $20,000.00 for a $6,000.00 roofing job.  Well he doesn't know that it's a $6,000.00 roof and I didn't let on.  He does know that he got screwed big time.


----------



## ICE

This job is a service upgrade.  The contractor called me this morning to ask when I would arrive at his inspection.  I told him that I planned on being there between 9 and 11.  That set him off.....he wanted as late as possible.  I agreed to delay until pm.  He wasn't there so what difference did it make.  I like it when jerks are not there.

He got ahead of himself with the stucco.  Gave it a little too much too and the door will not close.







Bulging is not good.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

I was there for a service upgrade.






I'm pretty sure that the condenser is just sitting on the roof.


----------



## ICE

The furnace and A/C were replaced.  I asked the owner what the cord and plug is for.  He told me that there is an attic vent with a fan.  Sorry about the picture but there is an ancient attachment plug hanging from a lamp cord which is most likely 16 AWG.




He got lucky with the knot holes.  There are two spots with open air splices.  But he did use wire nuts.




The furnace is in a closet directly below the vent.  The upper combustion air opening is under the towel.....wrapped around the vent.  The correction says "Provide code compliant combustion air opening".  I want the contractor to call me and ask what I want.




Paranite sounds like some dangerous stuff that could burn down the house.


----------



## ICE

Plumber did a water main.  I asked to see the electrical service so I can determine if the plumber eliminated an electrode.  The people are on vacation and we can't enter the back yard...... the plumber wants a final approval so he installed a ground rod and asked for re-inspection.


----------



## Msradell

Any idea what the valve that is dead headed just above ground level is for?


----------



## ICE

Well 


Msradell said:


> Any idea what the valve that is dead headed just above ground level is for?


Well no I don't know that or why there are four clamps when two would suffice......if any of it made sense.


----------



## ICE

Not even 15' of sill and they missed 5 anchor bolts.







I said no to that j-box too.


----------



## ICE

This job started in 2006 and expired in 2009.  When it actually stopped is unknown.  The scope is adding a bedroom and bath, extending a bedroom and living room, add a laundry.  The second floor is an addition.  There is also an expired permit for a second unit which is over a detached garage.

It was like this for five years before I arrived.  I have placed notices for the owner to contact me several times.  I have turned it over to code enforcement several times.  As I was passing by today it occurred to me that if another winter passes I will have to condemn the wiring because the lath is too porous.  That's when I noticed the water heater and PV.

I hate these messes.




The electrical supply for the tank-less water heater is a power cord through a window.....the window that is right there ....next to the water heater.  Vents are not their thing.



And wouldn't you know it, there's PV on the roof.


----------



## ICE

The job is a complete re-pipe with PEX.  I found this but no ground rods or uffer.


----------



## steveray

Are you talking about the ground clamp to nothing or the PVC connected to the potable water supply with no backflow?


----------



## ICE

It's the ground clamp....I never would've thought about the PVC on the potable without a back flow device.  The sprinkler control valves have anti-back flow.

The code says...or used to say, I never know for sure....that the valve shall be 6" above the highest sprinkler head. Some of mine are below....from 4' to 24' so they dribble for a good five minutes after they close and whistle for 30 seconds when they open.  So I need to install a dirt cheap back flow device times five.

People used to get a plumbing permit for irrigation sprinkler systems but I haven't seen one in years.


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


> These are on the front of a house.  I do not know what they are for.  Do you?


RV hook up


----------



## ICE

It's just a freeway sign.



A really big freeway sign.



https://flic.kr/p/MgXErv


----------



## ICE

The corrections came to me faster than I could write them down.




# 16 should have said secure the NM at 4.5 ft. intervals max....but alas and alack I forgot to write it.




The CSST mates up with the refrigerant lines and goes...where I don't know.




As I handed the lady homeowner the corrections, she asked me if any of them were the responsibility of the owner and not the contractor.  She has experienced a number of my inspections related to an addition so she is used to hearing, "It's the inspector's whim and you will have to pay for it".  So I showed her this picture and said "only one".  When she heard the words molten copper I could see a google icon in her eye.


----------



## ICE

You would think that if they are intelligent enough to complete an electrical service upgrade that they would recognize this for what it is.


----------



## ICE

They didn't try hard enough...Shirley they could have made it look worse than this.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> They didn't try hard enough...Shirley they could have made it look worse than this.


They just wanted to make sure that the roof had sufficient slope. I didn't know which way to make it so they compromise and went both ways with it.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> The corrections came to me faster than I could write them down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> # 16 should have said secure the NM at 4.5 ft. intervals max....but alas and alak I forgot to write it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The CSST mates up with the refrigerant lines and goes...where I don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I handed the lady homeowner the corretions, she asked me if any of them were the responsibility of the owner and not the contractor.  She has experienced a number of my inspections related to an addition so she is used to hearing, "It's the inspector's whim and you will have to pay for it".  So I showed her this picture and said "only one".  When she heard the words molten copper I could see a google icon in her eye.


1) Rafter ties at 48" missing
2) Ceiling Insulation missing
3) Flue clearance to combustibles
4) Flue support missing
5) Furnace power supply by plug in cord
6) Electrical connections in last photo?
What else?


----------



## conarb

Pcinspector1 said:


> 1) Rafter ties at 48" missing
> 2) Ceiling Insulation missing
> 3) Flue clearance to combustibles
> 4) Flue support missing
> 5) Furnace power supply by plug in cord
> 6) Electrical connections in last photo?
> What else?


Tiger doesn't say but I assume the permit is to change out an attic furnace, can permittees really be forced to add insulation when getting a permit to change out a furnace?


----------



## Pcinspector1

conarb,

Probably not, the homeowner probably exclaimed "That was existing!" Same with the rafter ties, existing.

Believe it or not there were a lot of contractors not installing insulation in garage attics here. Who looked in the attic anyway? They were more goggle eyed  and sidetracked about that $2,500.00 front door that the Architect put on the house plans and the contractor installed! 

I use Tiger's photos to improve my Inspectors eye, hope others are doing the same!


----------



## my250r11

The insulation is on the ceiling not the the roof, and just guessing but if the unit is in the garage then that is not conditioned space did not need insulation when the home was built.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Post #2201, photo #2 shows no attic insulation on the Ceiling drywall. Is the photo over a garage or conditioned space?


----------



## my250r11

my250r11 said:


> The insulation is on the ceiling not the the roof, and just guessing but if the unit is in the garage then that is not conditioned space did not need insulation when the home was built.


That's what i was assuming.


----------



## Rick18071

Why do you need rafter ties if the ceiling joists are attached to the rafters?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Rick you are correct, the CJ's complete the tie but what is the 2x6 in the picture that's midway up? it's not a rafter tie unless its in the lower third of the attic space. And it's not a collar tie.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Rick you are correct, the CJ's complete the tie but what is the 2x6 in the picture that's midway up? it's not a rafter tie unless its in the lower third of the attic space. And it's not a collar tie.


I see the ties at that location quite often.  All those years ago, that was the way they did it.  What, if any, value they provide is not for me to consider.  When they are removed I ask for a replacement.  In this case there is room above the furnace that will be close to the original location.

Many times there is no way to replace the tie.  So it does not get replaced.




Nine times out of ten I find a duct draped over the 3/4" wide board.


----------



## ICE

As to the question of insulation.  There is none.  None was required when the house was built.  And none is required now.  
Some of the wealth redistribution programs that hand out money for such things as new windows and HVAC equipment require that the attic be insulated.  And then they blow it in 30" (R30") deep burying all of the eave vents, junction boxes, (whether they are open or not) combustion air openings, ceiling light fixtures, a spaghetti mess of old, rotten wiring, etc.


----------



## ICE

Front loaders are too expensive to be treated this way.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> Front loaders are too expensive to be treated this way.


Are those shingles on the roof of the house next door? If so, the extended roof with almost flat and shingles certainly are not allowed there.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Don't see very many washer and dryers out side, do the electrical connections need to be weatherproof? Yellow house behind the power pole. Maybe that's just an extra set?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Don't see very many washer and dryers out side, do the electrical connections need to be weatherproof? Yellow house behind the power pole. Maybe that's just an extra set?


Outdoor receptacles must be equipped with an in use cover....laundry appliances are not listed for use in a wet location.


----------



## ICE

The job is replacing the mansard looking architectural feature.




The scuttle has been relocated.



The plan was to place roofing tiles on the front, a metal cap and leave the back side open as you see it.....painted of course.



There is no architect or engineer involved and the owner produced the original construction documents.  It was to be a like for like replacement.



The rub is that they installed OSB instead of exterior rated plywood.


----------



## ICE

Flipper did a lot to this house.

The water heater was in a closet that was accessed from the outside.  It has been moved outside and they got some corrections.  Oh they did an electrical service upgrade too....over a hole in the wall.




The combustion air screen is still in the wall and the abandoned vent is still sticking out of the roof.


----------



## mtlogcabin

Does not matter how much or what kind of paint the use that OSB will be gone in 5 to years. The moisture coming from the car wash will play a big role in it.


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:


> Does not matter how much or what kind of paint the use that OSB will be gone in 5 to years. The moisture coming from the car wash will play a big role in it.


They were doing the work without a permit and another inspector gave them a stop work order.  It was done when I saw it for the first time.  The owner asked me what I want him to do.  I told him to follow the plan.


----------



## ICE

It doesn't get much simpler than this:










Come to think of it, the label could be on the front instead of the side and that would be simpler now wouldn't it.


----------



## ICE

It's not like it had to be on the front porch.


----------



## ICE

Service upgrade inspection.






The flex that pokes through the stucco has two hots and a neutral that are landing on a breaker that is labeled sub-panel.  Quite naturally I asked where the sub-panel is located.  They didn't have an answer.  So along with a bunch of other corrections I asked them to find the sub-panel.  I noticed that the stucco to the right of the upgrade panel has been patched and after the third inspection with no results I told them to open the wall.  They resisted but finally did as told.

This mess was inside the wall.  The panel that was on the wall is now laying on the grass.


They have started over with a recessed panel.



This is what it looked like the last time I was there.  Because I did not sign off the final, a Sub Contractor Coordinator for a solar company wrote a scathing email to the office manager.  Apparently they never fail inspection unless I am the inspector.


----------



## ICE

There's not a lot of fuel for a fire in one of these.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Pets depot dog guard I suspect?


----------



## ICE

Electrical service upgrade.


----------



## ICE

I was at the house on the right to inspect a condenser replacement.









My first take on this was wondering how the guy on the right feels when he has to look at his neighbors lack of respect.  Then I wondered why he did what he did, knowing what was at his doorstep.


----------



## ICE

There is no permit for this patio cover other than a demo permit.  So I am cleaning out the file and here sits a demo permit from last year.




Meetings are held here.

This plays a role.




That and dinner.




There's a myriad of power cords strung all over the property for string lights and flood lamps.  This yard might be visible from the space station.  And there is this too.  And it is live.


----------



## ICE

The correction said that the wrong ARC fault breakers were installed.  The mistake that I made was pointing out that the dead front wouldn't fit.  Well it almost fits now.


----------



## ICE

I see plenty of dangerous stuff but some of it is egregious.  It's not so much the fault of the people as it is our education system.  We used to have shop classes where boys learned how to use tools and make things.  Life and death lessons were taught by Mr. Skoglund.  Like the time Dick McGinnis went running by on fire.  That period we learned that mohair sweaters and welding are incompatible.

Maybe we should bring back the public service announcements.  The landscape is no longer littered with blasting caps but there's lots of things the people need to be warned about.


----------



## ICE

Twice this week I had to ask Edison to roll up a drop.














In both cases the dwelling is not occupied so I didn't go through the office manager.  I'll probably get chewed out ....I've been chewed out before.


----------



## Pcinspector1

That last photo, is that the POCO's assumed 200-amp service connected to a cable connected to a box and receptacle with no over current protection?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> That last photo, is that the POCO's assumed 200-amp service connected to a cable connected to a box and receptacle with no over current protection?


Why yes, yes it is.


----------



## Pcinspector1

I'd let em chew, chew and chew all they want, no reason to have codes if you can't enforce them. Let the office manager explain what happen after the fire!


----------



## my250r11

Holly crap batman!! people are nuts. I'm not an electrical inspector but if I seen that I'd cut the power!!!!


----------



## steveray

California must have it's own definition of "upgrade".....


----------



## ICE

I wrote a correction that said that the appliance can't be a stucco stop.




I have been there several times and done my best to explain the correction.  The contractor has not been much help.  They are on the cusp of understanding.


----------



## ICE

The mechanical contractor removed rafter ties And I wrote a correction to replace the ties.  He had this example to follow:



This is the result:


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for under-slab plumbing.  The contractor stated that he will straighten the vent with a 22˚ elbow.
The correction said to remove the foam wrap for inspection and redo the vent so that it is plumb.




I wonder how a 22˚ elbow would have looked.


----------



## ICE

House flippers can be difficult to deal with.  This particular mammal has me doing quality control.  The inspection is for the lath.


I have done soooo many inspections for corrections and I wanted to say yes....but couldn't.







What I found to be strange was that there was someone there to meet me at every inspection.  They would wait for hours and I assume that they were being paid.


----------



## e hilton

The first pic in post 2240 about replacing the rafter ties, in the lower right there is some kind of 2x4 brace.  Not sure i have ever seen a brace cut like that.


----------



## ICE

The new roof was done just in time for a rain storm.  When does a roof pond become an issue worth the effort to correct it?  What depth?  What size?  these folks are sure to complain.  I would not have known it without the rain.







I wrote a correction about the ponds.


----------



## ICE

The framer did a relatively competent job of it.




The person that did the pluming did a job that, in relative terms,...stinks.




About a minute into the inspection I said, "The last time I was here I wrote a correction about sealing top and bottom plate penetrations. That has not been done".  The man with the clipboard and roll of plans said "What are top plates?"  After I showed him the plates he asked me what are penetrations. ....I didn't bother asking any questions.

I was busy today with 15 inspections so I pretty much screwed the pooch on this one.  Tomorrow shouldn't be as busy so I plan to revisit the scene.




The nail plates are the result of a correction that I wrote.   I was explicit: "protect cable if the edge of the hole or the cable is secured within 1-1/4"of the face of framing" and blah,blah,blah for plumbing.  Somewhere near the third or fourth inspection, the correction was still not done.. He figured out that I was unhappy with his performance and put plates everywhere.  Today he said that they used 140 plates....this is only a 700 sqft addition.  The framing in the picture is 2"x6".  There is one cable that needs protection.
I told them to get the framer back to fix the mess.  He seems to have experience.  They will tell him that I made them put all that steel on the wall.  The drywall crew is going to think I'm *crazy*. 




The 4"x6" blocks are for structural strap over the plywood.  Makes you wonder don't it?
The copper doesn't look bad at all.  It's life that there will be a few tradespeople and a slew of no-nothings on a job that will cost as much or more as a legitimate builder.


----------



## steveray

I am sure the rolled roofing has a minimum pitch that you could cite...


----------



## mmmarvel

What are top plates??  What are penetrations??  Oh my, I don't envy your job.


----------



## e hilton

I guess i missed an announcement.  What happened to the Adventures of Ice?


----------



## Fort

e hilton said:


> I guess i missed an announcement.  What happened to the Adventures of Ice?



I miss Ice too, hope all is well. You are an inspiration.


----------



## conarb

You mean the Tiger has fled the scene?  Strange, first the man in the dress, then the Tiger, you don't suppose?  No.


----------



## fatboy

Nah..........he's still around...........


----------



## conarb

Fatboy, maybe he got married and isn't allowed to post anymore?


----------



## ICE

I took a 36 day vacation.  Today was my first day back.  I had to use my ipad to find the office.  The other inspectors are gone this week.  I am having to follow up on their inspections.  It is truly a shame.  I was screamed at.....threatened with contractors running to the office......a HO was distraught because I had to write 8 corrections on top of the two that they already had......now they can't hang the drywall in the kitchen/dining room......"and dammmit it's just not fair"


----------



## MtnArch

What I tell my kids ... "Life's not fair - if anyone told you differently ... they lied."


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE, I was afraid you'd retired. 

And from the looks of the inspector jobs that mmmarvel's been posting I got worried


----------



## ICE

This is a room addition that included a water heater.  I was there for the first and hopefully, last time today.  The request was for a gas pipe pressure test.  That passed.  As I recall it was 60PSI on a 100PSI gauge.  Couldn't ask for better than that.

The room addition starts at the electrical panel.  The responsible party asked me if everything passed.  Well no not everything....in fact only the gas test.....that's it nothing more.....









I said well there's the el panel and he said "What's wrong with it?"  For starters it is energized.  I told him to point it out to the regular inspector when he returns.


----------



## ICE

I am there for a roof inspection.  Here I am standing in the driveway facing what used to be an attached garage.




To the left is a garage opening in an extension of the original garage.  There is no driveway or approach.  The owner asked me who he should see about getting a new driveway approach.


----------



## linnrg

little tiny cars would have no problem with that very big plant (what kind is it)


----------



## tmurray

someone's gunna have to change that smiley face on the tree to a sad face for them to get the approach.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Where's the house numbers? Can't find it on goggle


----------



## ICE




----------



## Pcinspector1

Meth lab?


----------



## linnrg

extend it once then extend it again?  Wish I could send southern Cal some of our snow load.


----------



## ICE

There's a fair amount of water and the stain indicates that there was more.




The service entrance conduit is cross-threaded and not far into the hub.  Do you think that it could leak enough to be the source of the water?  The service was rained on for days.


----------



## steveray

Sure....We know you are unfamiliar with rain, so we will help you out...

If it is cross threaded and in only that far it would have to leak.


----------



## fatboy

I agree, the connection (or lack thereof) is the culprit..........


----------



## ICE

The job is a covered patio.  It is 18'x38'.  When I asked why the steel stopped short I was told that the concrete beyond the post is sidewalk and not patio slab.  The contractor is aware that sidewalk on private property is exempt from permit and/or steel.




There is sidewalk on both sides.  There used to be a pair of A/C condensers sitting next to the house.  The water heater will be replaced when the slab is there.




The condensers were placed next to the property line  There is no electrical or mechanical permit.  The conduit and refrigerant lines that are buried were not inspected.


----------



## Msradell

I've never seen a condenser unit(s) located that far away from the house itself. It seems like you would do some efficiency in long runs like that unless you upsize the tubing.


----------



## ICE

There's bound to be some unusual considerations.  The tube will need protection.


----------



## ICE

Mosquito larvae swim in a counterclockwise direction.
                                                   The picture is an action packed video.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Norcal

ICE said:


> There's a fair amount of water and the stain indicates that there was more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The service entrance conduit is cross-threaded and not far into the hub.  Do you think that it could leak enough to be the source of the water?  The service was rained on for days.


Replaced a service for a manufactured home although prefer to call them "trailers", that whoever did the job failed to use a gasket on the hub & the water intrusion took it's toll on the aluminum bus to the point it lost a leg. Had nothing but bad things to say about them.


----------



## steveray

Maybe that service drop will fall into the rain barrell and solve both problems....


----------



## steveray

Todays deck plan submittal....
	

		
			
		

		
	




I am not sure who Joyce is, but I hope she is strong!


----------



## linnrg

you reject it since the carpenter pencil used to draw it was not sharp enough (or something was not sharp enough)


----------



## TheCommish

that scrap would get turned away at the  intake, it is so bad it would not make it to our wall of unaccepteble


----------



## Pcinspector1

A little crude, can't see the scratching's but as long as it has the information needed to issue a permit and you have a copy machine at the office, it would be acceptable IMO. 

Would be kinda hard to file.


----------



## ICE




----------



## steveray

I don't get any wall furnaces here, is it just the carpet or the framing?


----------



## ICE

It is set inside the wall.  It is a dual sided unit and the other side is in an alcove.


----------



## ICE

The work was far from ready for inspection.  It was11:30 on a Friday and they wanted to roof the house over the weekend.  The site was at the far end of my territory so I wasn't coming back later.






This gave me the confidence that they wouldn't cut any corners. I approved the sheathing, as is.


----------



## conarb

You approve flakeboard?  Isn't that a Class II violation of the Tiger Code?


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE, your so clever! That's a pretty little corner installed.

Is that guy in the background actually using a hammer instead of a gun nailer?


----------



## steveray

Are those a dead roofers legs (under the skip sheathing) in the first pic? Is that how they get rid of the dead?


----------



## tmurray

steveray said:


> Are those a dead roofers legs (under the skip sheathing) in the first pic? Is that how they get rid of the dead?



Insulated ductwork I think...


----------



## ICE

Now and then a job turns to sh_t.







The job is solar.  The el. service is bootlegged.  There's bound to be plenty of corrections.  My guess is that not far into this, they will demand a different inspector.


----------



## tmurray

ICE said:


> My guess is that not far into this, they will demand a different inspector.



I'm always surprised to hear this. We do not allow contractors to dictate which inspector is assigned to their jobs. If we receive a complaint we certainly review the violation and the code to confirm it is in fact a violation.


----------



## steveray

110.26...foreign system (hose) in dedicated equipment space/ working clearance...


----------



## JCraver

tmurray said:


> I'm always surprised to hear this. We do not allow contractors to dictate which inspector is assigned to their jobs. If we receive a complaint we certainly review the violation and the code to confirm it is in fact a violation.



That's a benefit of being the only guy here - they're stuck with me.  They can appeal to my board of adjustment, but unless I really screw up then all that's doing is wasting everybody's time.


----------



## ICE

tmurray said:


> I'm always surprised to hear this. We do not allow contractors to dictate which inspector is assigned to their jobs. If we receive a complaint we certainly review the violation and the code to confirm it is in fact a violation.


It happens to me a lot.  They say that I am rude.  The office manager tells me that, true or not, she must take them at their word and replace me.  I am always assured that the corrections that I've written will be enforced.  I have ample proof to the contrary.


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> 110.26...foreign system (hose) in dedicated equipment space/ working clearance...


I don't cite hose bibbs


----------



## tmurray

ICE said:


> It happens to me a lot.  They say that I am rude.  The office manager tells me that, true or not, she must take them at their word and replace me.  I am always assured that the corrections that I've written will be enforced.  I have ample proof to the contrary.



I can understand how they would want you to try to be less rude. But this is not a "customer is always right" environment. Being rude doesn't mean you are not doing your job. It certainly helps get voluntary compliance if you are helpful as an official, but I'd have a hard time taking over when the only complaint is rude. Even complaints to our municipal council do not usually find traction.

Again, your work environment blows me away.


----------



## ICE

if a contractor seldom gets any corrections he thinks I am rude when I write a bunch of corrections.  I understand that.  What difference does it make if the corrections are done or not.  Knowing that they have made the same mistake a few hundred times convinces them that I am crazy when I write corrections.  That's the rude......When they send out a crew that gets 15+ corrections and I want the contractor to explain the corrections to his employees.....That's the rude.  I don't shake hands.....now that's rude.


----------



## steveray

Had a plumber and homeowner call me about an inspector that called the plumber on his T&P discharge being >6" off the floor saying that it was unreasonable. The time I took explaining, I could have gone there and fixed it...


----------



## mtlogcabin

ICE said:


> It happens to me a lot. They say that I am rude.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> They say that I am rude.  The office manager tells me that, true or not, she must take them at their word and replace me.



Office manager doesn't deal with all the aspects of being an inspector, there's a lot of Einsteins out there: 

Phase one of my career; I've been called rude, brass, snotty, blunt, a$$hole, buddy, dude, crude and only see things in black & white, no grey. That's when you enforce the code.

Phase two, the Carnegie years, where you learn to keep your hands at your side and listen before you speak, it's not bad but it takes longer to do inspections. Cuz all they do is tell you how smart they are and I can't stop thinking his wife must be a drinker, I'd like to meet her, I bet she's hot! What was that question again sir?

Phase three, I don't really give a crap, I found this so called job when I found it, and according to mmarvel there's more low paying inspector jobs out there now than ever before.

Phase four: Training the new buck. Grab those sky hooks out of the trunk for me, will ya! Hold the dumb end of that tape measure


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE, Have you ever been followed by a homeowner with his I-pad and found out he'd been videoing you while doing your inspection. 

That's just creepy!

I made sure that I picked my nose and did some "scratchin", Probally on youtube.

Is Videoing a word?


----------



## tmurray

What was he hoping to catch you doing?


----------



## Pcinspector1

tmurray,
Doing nothing I guess? I don't really know, I caught the residents plumbing contractor on a backhoe digging in the right-of-way without a permit, no plumbing permit and no business license. While trying to talk to the contractor he came out into the street where I was discussing the city requirements and then he later told the mayor I ignored him. I first thought his sugar was off?

After I issued the permits he was real nice but followed me around with his I-pad. Kinda gave me a weird feeling like when you do a rough-in inspection and the contractor follows you around with his bibs open and mustard on his beard from lunch.

It's rough out here, I can't believe ICE gets on roofs without fall protection.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> ICE, Have you ever been followed by a homeowner with his I-pad and found out he'd been videoing you while doing your inspection.


I tell them that I am in the federal witness protection program.  That's the end of that. Me and Whitey hiding in plain sight.  it makes them nervous because they don't know what crime I committed to end up as their inspector.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> It's rough out here, I can't believe ICE gets on roofs without fall protection.



Better than 20,000 times.


----------



## linnrg

you should smile and tell them that the ipad will really help write up and document the unusual long list of code violations the place has - would you mind taking this all down?  Also drop the old line of how will you ever sell a place like this when you have first hand knowledge about all of that crappy work done by fly by night contractors.  Ask them on camera how it came about that they found and hired those kinds of contractors.  Well the Ipad will at least have it documented!

I can bet it would not take long for that Ipad to disappear.


----------



## ICE

S-trap  and it took a santee to pull it off.


----------



## steveray

NICE!..P3005.1 at a house....And are they going to fireblock anything or will they be using the insulation?


----------



## ICE

You'll be needing bandages before this is over.




The inspection request said "Lath". I had never been there before.  The lath was signed off the previous day.  I didn't ask questions.

He looks confident.  He must know something that I don't.


----------



## TheCommish

Go-go Gadget  ratchet arms


----------



## Pcinspector1

That guy will need to go on weight watchers if he's slappin the mud!


----------



## ICE

11' deep.



There is a dinky excavator onsite.  You can see where a shovel took over


When I asked about shoring they pointed to this:


----------



## ICE

The job is a remodel.  The steel beam is shown as "existing header" on the plans.  The rafters on both sides are new, as is the header in the distance.  The I-beam is 6"x6"x16'.  The engineer has approved this work via a Structural Observation form.  I asked the contractor if the engineer performed calculations on the I-beam and he said yes but he lacked proof.  I asked that the engineer do it again.




I mentioned the strap and was told that the engineer required it because the top plates do not overlap.  That was easy to accept but asking for 36 nails on each side of CS20 seems odd.


----------



## ICE

Here's another unusual strap.  The building is a pool house.


----------



## MtnArch

I had an engineer once show (and calc!) a continuous roll strap that started 10' outside of the building (in the patio slab), continued up the exterior wall, over the entire roof to the opposite wall, then down that exterior wall, then out an additional 10' in another patio slab.  He was dead serious about it, since the numbers in his calcs showed that it worked.  This engineer also regularly showed in the calcs that an A35 worked as a holddown.  Luckily the owner's nixed that project and downsized it to something reasonable!


----------



## Wayne

ICE said:


> 11' deep.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a dinky excavator onsite.  You can see where a shovel took over.
> 
> 
> When I asked about shoring they pointed to this:


On any real construction project, the contractor would have an engineer design the shoring system or determine if shoring is even needed.


----------



## Msradell

Wayne said:


> On any real construction project, the contractor would have an engineer design the shoring system or determine if shoring is even needed.


in reality very seldom does a contractor have an engineer design the shoring system. That only happens in very rare circumstances where something is out of the norm. Most contractors have a person trained for shoring design or train themselves. This is allowed under OSHA standards and is what the normal procedure is in most areas. Contractors don't have time to wait around for an engineer to design shoring which is only temporary in nature.


----------



## ICE

Before:




After:



The job is remove existing siding and install new siding.  The before picture was before any inspections.  The walls were insulated and sheathed with osb.  None of the wiring or plumbing was protected prior to sheathing and they had great pictures of the insulation.  The insulation was inside out.

The after picture is after the sheathing was removed and the insulation was corrected.  They still had not protected wiring or plumbing.  They will.


----------



## sergoodo

ICE said:


> The job is a remodel.  The steel beam is shown as "existing header" on the plans.  The rafters on both sides are new, as is the header in the distance.  The I-beam is 6"x6"x16'.  The engineer has approved this work via a Structural Observation form.  I asked the contractor if the engineer performed calculations on the I-beam and he said yes but he lacked proof.  I asked that the engineer do it again.
> 
> 
> I mentioned the strap and was told that the engineer required it because the top plates do not overlap.  That was easy to accept but asking for 36 nails on each side of CS20 seems odd.



when the strap fails between the first 4 nails it is a failure due to strap says the engineer


----------



## ICE

These are corrections that I encountered and I am curious to know where to find these in the California codes.

1. *"Attic light shall be equipped with a vacancy sensor."*.....maybe in the Green Code but I wouldn't want one myself.

2.  *"Identify on the garbage disposal which plug is for the garbage disposal"*.  This might be about multi-wire branch circuits that serve a single outlet.  So far two inspectors have written the correction.

3.  *"Install 4" back splash at bathroom sinks."  *

4.  *"Identify the switch for the garbage disposal."  *I almost forgot this one.


----------



## steveray

None of those corrections make any sense to me....You need the tied breaker for sharing the neutral on D/W and disposal if you can even do that anymore, but identifying plugs and switches?


----------



## tmurray

ICE said:


> I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place; what do I do about my own mistakes?   When I find something that I missed am I allowed to write that correction after the fact?....I think not.
> 
> ...
> 
> I blew it again last week when I found a sub-panel in a bathroom at the final of a new dwelling.  Wait a minute here....that might be deadly....or not....I suppose it's a matter of how loud the contractor gets with the manager.  He was plenty loud with me: "You are the fifth inspector to see it and none of the others said anything".



I've found things I should have caught on a previous inspection. It's a real humble pie moment when I have to explain to a contractor I made a mistake and missed it. They always fix it though...

The contractor should complain about the quality of inspections given by the other 5 inspectors and what else you are going to find. Apparently, they aren't doing their jobs.


----------



## ICE

tmurray said:


> I've found things I should have caught on a previous inspection. It's a real humble pie moment when I have to explain to a contractor I made a mistake and missed it. They always fix it though...




I take pictures of almost everything I see.  I also write a lot of corrections.  I am always in a hurry because of the workload.  When I get home I download the pictures to my computer to see if any qualify for my website.  A few times each week I will find a correction that I didn't write.  Either I missed it or I forgot to write it. (sometimes corrections come to me faster than I can write them down)

As an example, a recent el. service upgrade and complete rewire of a 4500 sq.ft. house got 17 corrections.  In looking at the pictures I realized that I forgot to verify that the smoke alarms are hardwired and interlocked.  So I called the contractor, who by the way, thinks that I am picking on him.  I understand his frustration but detest his willingness to perform shoddy work and then bitch about the inspector.  

As far as the taste of humble pie goes....I love it....every time it happens I realize that I haven't lost my edge.  I mean really now, 17 corrections, and all of them worth the ink....who does that?


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


> Here's another unusual strap.  The building is a pool house.


BiG Drag


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


> to find these in the California codes.
> 1. *"Attic light shall be equipped with a vacancy sensor."*.....


2016 CA energy code §150.0(k)7 Residential Compliance Manual=6.6.4
1. High efficacy, *or 2. Controlled by a vacancy sensor*, or  3. Controlled by a dimmer See section 6.2 for residential lighting control requirements.


----------



## ICE

Well there you go Mark.  An attic is an "other room".  Thanks for that.  I think I'll ask for dimmers.

Could you shoot me a link for the commercial manual?  I'd like to add that to my website as well.


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


> Well there you go Mark.  An attic is an "other room".  Thanks for that.  I think I'll ask for dimmers.
> 
> Could you shoot me a link for the commercial manual.  I'd like to add that to my website as well.


Res and Non-Res link
http://www.energy.ca.gov/title24/2016standards/


----------



## ICE

Thanks


----------



## JCraver

ICE-  I may have said this before but I'm amazed at the work you do.  I keep expecting to log on here someday and hear that you quit altogether, and took a job in a different trade.  I hope that doesn't happen, but I'm astounded by your side of the story and the amount of BS you put up with from your "superiors". 

You're a better man than I - because you stay, and because you try.  I'd have been fired many times over were I you - your tolerance for stupidity with bosses (let alone contractors) is mind-boggling.


----------



## ICE

I have so much invested in this job that to toss it would be painful. 

At the end of July all contract workers are to be eliminated.  That's a lot of people and there are few people to fill those positions.  Many of the contractors have been offered a job but at a substantial cut in pay.  Government and all.....start at the bottom ... maybe step two of five steps.  The good ones will not take that cut.  I will be on vacation the first two weeks of August.  I might not recognize the place upon my return.


----------



## steveray

ICE said:


> This could ruin the department for decades. Well who am I kidding, the dept is on the skids and has been for a long time. Those same inspectors that will be hired have been at it for years.



I think this is true most places...I blame it on poor staffing/ funding around here...No one sees the effects of the cuts for years, so it is not a problem...


----------



## Rick18071

ICE I feel your frustration. I work for a 3rd party inspection agency. Where I work 3rd party electrical inspectors from other companies can be used or in one township must be used even though I am a certified electrical inspector. I see a lot of electrical work that I would not pass but I am not allowed to say anything about it if it is passed by the other 3rd party inspector. In the municipal where other 3rd party electrical inspectors are required I am required to pass footing inspections with rebar in them with no electrical inspection for the grounding of the rebar. I was told to just look for the rough and final electrical inspection sticker and act like I don't know anything about electrical codes. So if a house has an electrical update I need blinders and just check the sticker and test the smoke alarms.


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> I think this is true most places...I blame it on poor staffing/ funding around here...No one sees the effects of the cuts for years, so it is not a problem...


Money is not an issue.  Not even close.


----------



## ICE

Rick18071 said:


> ICE I feel your frustration. I work for a 3rd party inspection agency. Where I work 3rd party electrical inspectors from other companies can be used or in one township must be used even though I am a certified electrical inspector. I see a lot of electrical work that I would not pass but I am not allowed to say anything about it if it is passed by the other 3rd party inspector. In the municipal where other 3rd party electrical inspectors are required I am required to pass footing inspections with rebar in them with no electrical inspection for the grounding of the rebar. I was told to just look for the rough and final electrical inspection sticker and act like I don't know anything about electrical codes. So if a house has an electrical update I need blinders and just check the sticker and test the smoke alarms.


I enjoy certain protections.  Such as civil service rules and a union.


----------



## watchdog

I am curious about the level of responsibility required of inspectors.  Who is responsible for design & construction to code requirements?  Is it the designer/engineer/contractor or the AHJ?
When something is not noticed in an early stage of inspection, that doesn't give a builder "a pass" on that item.
However, I suspect that an AHJ is also not in the business of full blown project management with quality control.
It seems that good contractors should appreciate the extra set of eyes provided by well-meaning and supportive inspectors who are interested in projects moving forward without nitpicking or searching out imperfection.  For inspectors, I would hope that they are verifying conformance to approved plans with deferrence to plan reviewers when conflicts arise between proposed and actual construction.


----------



## JCraver

watchdog said:


> I am curious about the level of responsibility required of inspectors.  Who is responsible for design & construction to code requirements?  Is it the designer/engineer/contractor or the AHJ?
> When something is not noticed in an early stage of inspection, that doesn't give a builder "a pass" on that item.
> However, I suspect that an AHJ is also not in the business of full blown project management with quality control.
> It seems that good contractors should appreciate the extra set of eyes provided by well-meaning and supportive inspectors who are interested in projects moving forward without nitpicking or searching out imperfection.  For inspectors, I would hope that they are verifying conformance to approved plans with deferrence to plan reviewers when conflicts arise between proposed and actual construction.




I think this may be jurisdiction dependent?  For example - I'm the only one in my office.  If I miss something on an inspection, and I see it the next time I'm there, I explain that I missed it and then make them / ask them to fix it.  90% of the contractors I deal with are regulars, and we know each other, so this has not yet been a problem.  In an AHJ like ICE's and some of these other guys, where there are numerous inspectors and numerous contractors and they don't all know one another, I can see this as being a little more difficult to navigate.  If I'm a contractor and have had 2, 3, 4 different inspectors on the job and all has went well, and then Number 5 shows up and starts nitpicking, I can understand how that can be a little hard to swallow.

In the end though, the code wins.  If Number 5 can cite a code section for what he's writing up, there's not really any very good argument to be made for the contractor not to fix it.


----------



## tmurray

watchdog said:


> I am curious about the level of responsibility required of inspectors.  Who is responsible for design & construction to code requirements?  Is it the designer/engineer/contractor or the AHJ?
> When something is not noticed in an early stage of inspection, that doesn't give a builder "a pass" on that item.
> However, I suspect that an AHJ is also not in the business of full blown project management with quality control.
> It seems that good contractors should appreciate the extra set of eyes provided by well-meaning and supportive inspectors who are interested in projects moving forward without nitpicking or searching out imperfection.  For inspectors, I would hope that they are verifying conformance to approved plans with deferrence to plan reviewers when conflicts arise between proposed and actual construction.


Ultimately code compliance is up to the designer, engineer, contractor and owner.

Here in Canada, the AHJ is required to have a reasonable inspection scheme to inspect critical components of the building and to detect obvious defects of construction at these stages. The AHJ is not required to detect defects between the inspections or to detect every minor violation, only those that can have a significant impact on life safety, thus the AHJ does not become the "insurer" of the work. Neither is every defect detected required to be corrected. The official must take into account the gravity of harm, likelihood of the harm and the cost to remedy the deficiency.

Two quick points:
1. It is completely expected that during construction even the most diligent contractor will violate the code, it is for this reason that building officials exist.
2. Building officials are not expected to be code enforcement robots and must use their discretion in enforcement of the code.

Both of those things were said (I'm paraphrasing) in decisions from the Supreme Court of Canada.


----------



## ICE

watchdog said:


> I am curious about the level of responsibility required of inspectors.  Who is responsible for design & construction to code requirements?  Is it the designer/engineer/contractor or the AHJ?
> When something is not noticed in an early stage of inspection, that doesn't give a builder "a pass" on that item.
> However, I suspect that an AHJ is also not in the business of full blown project management with quality control.
> It seems that good contractors should appreciate the extra set of eyes provided by well-meaning and supportive inspectors who are interested in projects moving forward without nitpicking or searching out imperfection.  For inspectors, I would hope that they are verifying conformance to approved plans with deferrence to plan reviewers when conflicts arise between proposed and actual construction.



Inspectors are responsible for assuring that construction meets code.  The design and construction are done by the designer/engineer/contractor.  What with them doing it I reckon they are responsible for code compliance as they go along.  The AHJ will, hopefully, catch deviations from code as they go along.

_"When something is not noticed in an early stage of inspection, that doesn't give a builder "a pass" on that item.
However, I suspect that an AHJ is also not in the business of full blown project management with quality control."_

I don't see how those two sentences relate to each other.  Obviously a mistake is a mistake whether it is found on Monday or Friday.  Some mistakes need to be rectified no matter when they are found.  Other mistakes may be trifling compared to the difficulty or expense created by a late call.

Some projects do require "full blown project management".  It is naïve to think that inspectors sit back and observe in all cases.  The last office that I worked in was had poor to middle income residents.  The people and contractors are less sophisticated by a wide margin.  There were more HO builders than there were contractors.  Home Depot crews were the norm.  If they don't know a damned thing about it, who do you suppose taught them.  It's that or let them build crap.

Quality control is not my bag.  If the windows are out of square the owner needs to squawk.  There's a thread here about variation in a floor surface.  I don't test the floors with a bowling ball....well not since the accident anyway.

_"It seems that good contractors should appreciate the extra set of eyes provided by well-meaning and supportive inspectors who are interested in projects moving forward without nitpicking or searching out imperfection"
_
One in a hundred contractors tell me that they appreciate my diligence.  The other 99 don't even try to feed me that BS.  You mention nitpicking.  I went back to the electrical job that I mentioned earlier and took a critical look at the corrections that I wrote.  There's no nitpicking.  The least of the corrections was "Staple the cable 4.5 ft on center in the attic and within 12" etc.  Searching out imperfections is what I do.

Here's a picture:



And by the way, I could have gotten nitpicking with it. I like #11....as it was, the door would not close because of the stucco.


_"For inspectors, I would hope that they are verifying conformance to approved plans with deferrence to plan reviewers when conflicts arise between proposed and actual construction"
_
So you are a plan checker hey.  That's okay...When conflicts arise between the construction and the approved plans, I almost always ask that the two match.


----------



## steveray

tmurray said:


> Two quick points:
> 1. It is completely expected that during construction even the most diligent contractor will violate the code, it is for this reason that building officials exist.
> 2. Building officials are not expected to be code enforcement robots and must use their discretion in enforcement of the code.



I go to jail here if I use my discretion and something happens and someone can prove it....


----------



## linnrg

well the code is now thicker than before - more things to look for and more to be aware of as we walk thru on inspection.  A wire is stapled to the stud but it is 15" away from the box - does it still work yes.  If it is not stapled at all does it work? Well yes.
When to be lenient and when to not.  When it is unsafe hit them with the write up - if real unsafe shut it down.

As an inspector I am probably less strict than ICE some due to  my clients and I have worked together for a long time.

Ice sees those low slope roofs with improper shingles and he hits them with a no go then his boss pushes it away.

Like JCraver I too work with "regulars".  I've been here long enough to have seen good construction and seen bad construction.  The other day a house had one anchor bolt without the nut screwed down - I did not write it down but went to the site supervisor and told him he had to start the whole house over - he looked at me with great surprise and as soon as I told him he told his laborer where the wrench was and sent him there directly.  The site supervisor and I have know each other 15 years.  Many years ago another contractor who was a very hard working man got me as his inspector because I was filling in for a private inspector and at that house  every bolt did not have a nut and washer - I saw it and really laughed.  This was late about 7:00 in the evening and that guy was still working on a house next door.  I walked over and said I could not pass his house - his response was "that's my fault" and he asked if I could stay long enough to pass the inspection and he dragged a tired body up to the site and finished it on the spot.  I happily gave him the go ahead.  I have way more of those stories than the struggles that ICE has.

I have had builders that absolutely did not like me.  I have had some clients who ask to talk to my boss.  For me those both have been rare.

I don't know what advice to give you ICE except to tell you your photos have been valuable.


----------



## linnrg

A commercial building here in town built in the 1970's had some water damage at windows and the owner wanted my opinion of what could be done. Upon inspection I discovered that there was no anchor bolts in the entire building.  To think of how many earthquakes this has gone through.  I told him he might want to invest in a structural engineer but also told him I did not think I could force him to remedy it.  Similarly, I have a motel in my areas that was supposed to be sprinklered (missed at the original plan review [actually at the state level at that time]) when it was built but have no ordinance that can force it to be installed.
Both to me represent serious potential for "why was this not code compliant".


----------



## mmmarvel

Ice, can I get a link to your website??


----------



## Rick18071

The inspector can't be responsible. Who knows what they do in the walls after the inspector leaves and the drywall goes up. The inspector would have to be in every room and every job 24 hours 7 days a week.


----------



## ICE

mmmarvel said:


> Ice, can I get a link to your website??


Sure....it is my signiture ⬇️


----------



## watchdog

ICE said:


> Inspectors are responsible for assuring that construction meets code.  The design and construction are done by the designer/engineer/contractor.  What with them doing it I reckon they are responsible for code compliance as they go along.  The AHJ will, hopefully, catch deviations from code as they go along.
> 
> _"When something is not noticed in an early stage of inspection, that doesn't give a builder "a pass" on that item.
> However, I suspect that an AHJ is also not in the business of full blown project management with quality control."_
> 
> I don't see how those two sentences relate to each other.  Obviously a mistake is a mistake whether it is found on Monday or Friday.  Some mistakes need to be rectified no matter when they are found.  Other mistakes may be trifling compared to the difficulty or expense created by a late call.
> 
> Some projects do require "full blown project management".  It is naïve to think that inspectors sit back and observe in all cases.  The last office that I worked in was had poor to middle income residents.  The people and contractors are less sophisticated by a wide margin.  There were more HO builders than there were contractors.  Home Depot crews were the norm.  If they don't know a damned thing about it, who do you suppose taught them.  It's that or let them build crap.
> 
> Quality control is not my bag.  If the windows are out of square the owner needs to squawk.  There's a thread here about variation in a floor surface.  I don't test the floors with a bowling ball....well not since the accident anyway.
> 
> _"It seems that good contractors should appreciate the extra set of eyes provided by well-meaning and supportive inspectors who are interested in projects moving forward without nitpicking or searching out imperfection"
> _
> One in a hundred contractors tell me that they appreciate my diligence.  The other 99 don't even try to feed me that BS.  You mention nitpicking.  I went back to the electrical job that I mentioned earlier and took a critical look at the corrections that I wrote.  There's no nitpicking.  The least of the corrections was "Staple the cable 4.5 ft on center in the attic and within 12" etc.  Searching out imperfections is what I do.
> 
> Here's a picture:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And by the way, I could have gotten nitpicking with it. I like #11....as it was, the door would not close because of the stucco.
> 
> 
> _"For inspectors, I would hope that they are verifying conformance to approved plans with deferrence to plan reviewers when conflicts arise between proposed and actual construction"
> _
> So you are a plan checker hey.  That's okay...When conflicts arise between the construction and the approved plans, I almost always ask that the two match.



Actually, my experience is in construction defect cases & forensic investigation.  I find it interesting and helpful to get insight into the process that occurs during design & construction.


----------



## cda

watchdog said:


> I am curious about the level of responsibility required of inspectors.  Who is responsible for design & construction to code requirements?  Is it the designer/engineer/contractor or the AHJ?
> When something is not noticed in an early stage of inspection, that doesn't give a builder "a pass" on that item.
> However, I suspect that an AHJ is also not in the business of full blown project management with quality control.
> It seems that good contractors should appreciate the extra set of eyes provided by well-meaning and supportive inspectors who are interested in projects moving forward without nitpicking or searching out imperfection.  For inspectors, I would hope that they are verifying conformance to approved plans with deferrence to plan reviewers when conflicts arise between proposed and actual construction.




Welcome
I know a few after action inspectors such as yourself.

I believe everyone up and down the line is responsible for making sure a building meets minimum code.


""" For inspectors, I would hope that they are verifying conformance to approved plans with deferrence to plan reviewers when conflicts arise between proposed and actual construction""


I disagree here, if the inspector is calling something out, hopefully they know a code section to back it up, yes some time a conference with other workers is needed or a few minutes researching also.


----------



## ICE

watchdog said:


> Actually, my experience is in construction defect cases & forensic investigation.  I find it interesting and helpful to get insight into the process that occurs during design & construction.



I have stories. 
While I was still in college a woman showed up looking for help from the people that taught the inspection program.  She had gotten involved with a city redevelopment program and contractors pretty much ruined her home.  The instructors asked me to look into it.  In the end, the city bought the property and paid another her $50k for the grief. I got a nice chunk too.  That was 20 years ago.  I had to use a movie camera and Snapper to make a good looking 60 page report.  On top of that, I didn't know what I didn't know.  I even represented her with the city's risk management team.  I enjoyed doing it.


----------



## conarb

So the city hired the contractors who screwed up the woman's home?


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> So the city hired the contractors who screwed up the woman's home?


Yes


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> Yes


So why didn't she sue the city?


----------



## steveray

We have one just like that now that we are trying to remedy....


----------



## tmurray

conarb said:


> So why didn't she sue the city?


Sounds like they did just that:



ICE said:


> ... In the end, the city bought the property and paid another her $50k for the grief...


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> So why didn't she sue the city?


Didn't have to sue.....the city caved early.


----------



## steveray

We might be spending $50 grand to fix a $5000 roof....


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> So why didn't she sue the city?


The woman approached the city looking for help with a busted furnace.  The Redevelopment Agency loaned her $42,000 for work that the city controlled.  The city picked the contractor.  The city controlled the purse.  The city inspected the work.  I found a similar case where Wells Fargo did the same and was judged to be the contractor.  Wells lost and so did the city.  The ridiculous mess that the contractor created is what tripped  up the city....that and my penchant for writing corrections.  I also found a bunch of irregularities in the way they went about it.  Big government gives little government money to blow but it comes with rules on how it is blown.  They didn't follow the rules.  I'm pretty sure that they gave up rather than have a bad day in court.  They wrote off the $42,000 and bought the house at fair market as if the work had been done correctly.  The extra $50K was a jolt.

I lived near there.  In the beginning I was described as a "building inspector wannabe" by the building official.  It must have hurt his feelinfgs to done in by a wannabe inspector.

One of the lawyers that I asked to take the case offered to put me through law school if I would agree to work for him for a minimum of five years after becoming a lawyer.  I had just completed a year of school and gotten all of the certs....the lawyer was a sleaze....but you knew that.....so here I am.

I enjoyed working for the woman.


----------



## ICE

The plans are rather vague but it is clear that there will not be any support from the floor for the cantilevered portion of the landing.  There is not room for anything but a car hood.




Note the HD that is screwed to a 4"x post.





The post with the HD attached has been severed to let in the beam.





The structural observation report stated that no deficiencies were found.  The plate washers on the anchor bolts are too small.

Perhaps the engineer was upset at the mess that he had to wade through to observe the construction.


----------



## steveray

ICE said:


> Perhaps the engineer was upset at the mess that he had to wade through to observe the construction.



Drive-by inspection for the engineer....Anti-gravity paint on the landing will fix that...


----------



## Pcinspector1

Could be cabled from above if engineered, but I bet that's not on the plans. How does that get through review?

Plate washers on the anchor bolts too small? Look's like the anchor bolts are not set deep enough or over sized.

I think the anti-gravity paint, was recalled last month.... steveray, could you check that?


----------



## ICE

The washers are suppose to be 3"x3"x1/4"....I didn't put a tape on it.  The correction said "too small"  The correction for the landing said,"I'm not convinced that this is a good idea".  The contractor reminded me that his engineer said it was fine.


----------



## ICE

Is there a limit to how high dry-pack can be?


----------



## steveray

Not with an engineers approval......


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE,


ICE said:


> The washers are suppose to be 3"x3"x1/4"....I didn't put a tape on it.  The correction said "too small"  The correction for the landing said,"I'm not convinced that this is a good idea".  The contractor reminded me that his engineer said it was fine.



That engineer will give his stamped letter on that for the file right?

I have never seen the 3x3-1/4 inch washers used in this area, they use old concrete foundation spreader pieces and regular 1/2-inch washers here. I think I'll do some surfing for those washers my friend.


----------



## Pcinspector1

What is that sole plate material? It looks huge, over 2-inches?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> ICE,
> 
> 
> That engineer will give his stamped letter on that for the file right?



He did that.  We have a standard form and the engineer fills it out.


----------



## mark handler

Pcinspector1 said:


> What is that sole plate material? It looks huge, over 2-inches?


3x plates required based on seismic zones,
Most of CA is in SZ D,E, F


----------



## conarb

We use all 3x plates and 3x3 plate washers, we have since the 1998 CBC (1997 UBC based), not only mudsills but also plates setting on subfloors, coming to you in the near future.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Please excuse my ignorance, 
Is the 3x actually a product that is sold in your area? Who makes this product?


----------



## mark handler

Pcinspector1 said:


> Please excuse my ignorance,
> Is the 3x actually a product that is sold in your area? Who makes this product?


Sold in all lumber yards, including Home Desperate
Multiple manuf's

The* 3x plate* requirements can be found in section IBC section *2305*


----------



## linnrg

an electrician who was not paying attention


----------



## steveray

I'll take derating and overboring for $1000 Chuck!


----------



## linnrg

the electrician did not see that there was excess wire caught on the attic access edge when he was pulling the home runs.

As far as derating - some say that since this is not bundled for more than 24" then no derating - some say if those holes are filled with firecaulk or expanding foam then derating occurs.


----------



## ICE

The holes shall be filled.


----------



## ICE

According to the contractor, this short section of trenchless sewer pipe was cut out because when it was installed the smaller diameter pipe was not connected.  The smaller pipe serves a clothes washer.  I have a hard time believing anybody anymore.




The required procedure for the installation of trenchless sewer pipe includes a camera run done before the work commences; with the inspector present.  That should avert such mistakes as eliminating a lateral.  I have never witnessed the "before" camera run.  The contractor always has an excuse for why it wasn't done.....it was an emergency repair.....we didn't know about the procedure.....their office didn't give them the instructions that BS stapled to the permit.

In this case, no permit was obtained for the trenchless and it was done over a year ago.  Well that's all according to the latest contractor.


----------



## north star

** * * & * * ** 



> *" I enjoyed working for the lady "*


Sounds like you have a golden opportunity calling you.
Is it possible for you to start a Residential & Commercial
construction forensics company in addition to your current
Inspector job ?.......This is similar to what the Forum owner
did.......Plus, it would give you control over the level of
inspection, and "piles and piles of cash", and you COULD
make a significant difference in hiring & training the next
generation of qualified Inspectors.

Hell's bells Shirley, it might just give you some satisfaction
to be a Game Changer in your area.   

** * * & * * **


----------



## ICE

My certifications expire for the eighth time next January.  I'm hoping that the only license that I will need after that is a fishing license.....oh and I might kill some deer.


----------



## ICE

On April 2-17 I was told that our department would accept the fact that unattended, exposed, energized metal presents an immediate life safety hazard.  Four months and some days later I find it everywhere.  I have had dozens in the last two months.  Here is today:




The contractor's employee was in a vehicle across the street.  The equipment is in the backyard......with the little girl and her chicken.




The worker was contrite, apologetic, defensive and just not someone that I would trust with electricity.  He told me all about the inspectors that walk away from an inspection if the equipment isn't wide open.  Those inspectors are us.

A conservative estimate of the number of times that this has transpired in this jurisdiction over four months is 2000.  Well for sure the number with little girls is hard to estimate and forget about counting chickens.


----------



## steveray

By "immediate hazard", do you cut the power to the house?


----------



## mmmarvel

ICE said:


> The washers are suppose to be 3"x3"x1/4"....I didn't put a tape on it. The correction said "too small" The correction for the landing said,"I'm not convinced that this is a good idea". The contractor reminded me that his engineer said it was fine.



So did you call the engineer??  I've done that more than once - like the time I was suppose to verify some lag bolts going into the wall ... the problem was the wall didn't exist.  I mean the rest of the dimensions, the rest of the walls, everything else was there, but this pony wall wasn't there (anymore).  Don't know what happened to it, evidently someone demolished it but I had the hardest time convincing the engineer that the wall just flat didn't exist anymore.  In the end I won, but it was only because I told him I couldn't sign off on something that I couldn't verify.


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> By "immediate hazard", do you cut the power to the house?


Well actually no, we don't do anything.


----------



## ICE

mmmarvel said:


> So did you call the engineer??  I've done that more than once - like the time I was suppose to verify some lag bolts going into the wall ... the problem was the wall didn't exist.  I mean the rest of the dimensions, the rest of the walls, everything else was there, but this pony wall wasn't there (anymore).  Don't know what happened to it, evidently someone demolished it but I had the hardest time convincing the engineer that the wall just flat didn't exist anymore.  In the end I won, but it was only because I told him I couldn't sign off on something that I couldn't verify.


The job is in another inspectors area and I was there while he was on vacation.  I haven't been back so I don't know the outcome.  I did not call the engineer.


----------



## ICE

A flipper created a laundry room without a dryer vent.  I asked for a dryer vent.  I also asked for a cap on the gas valve.  This is their best effort.







I've got to wonder what kind of fool that they think I am.


----------



## ICE

Flipper didn't have a ladder to access the roof at the first inspection.  There wasn't much doubt that once there I might find some issues.




The condenser is not attached to the building.

I wasn't able to remove the fuse holder for fear of ripping the disconnect off the condenser.




As luck would have it, there is an existing roof jack that they were able to utilize.


----------



## ICE

On that first inspection I wrote 18 corrections without getting on the roof and sad to say that I didn't inspect the water heater either.  In my defense, it was a busy day and 18 is plenty.  I was in a hot attic, the corrections were goofy stuff that indicated that the contractor was sub-par.  The icing on that cake is that the contractor didn't show up for the inspection and the clueless flipper wanted explanation times 18.

Then I see the water heater vent.









While not a record number of corrections for the scope of work, it is a ridiculous outcome.


----------



## steveray

How hard can you bend an appliance connector?  Don't you get a zero clearance reduction for vents in free air? Some days I feel like I have your job Tiger.....Flickr working well for you? I have to do something about the PB disaster at some point....


----------



## ICE

Steve,
Flickr works great.  Photo Bucket doesn't work at all.


----------



## ICE

A little goes a long way.  More may not be an improvement.


----------



## ICE

It looks like it is cross threaded.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Post # 2372, I do not require the seismic straps here, just curious what are they
fastened to?  The cabinet is fastened to the house, yes?   And the straps to the
cabinet, maybe?

Gas line looks a bit kinky and the PRV line will not work installed that way.

ICE, I was in SLO last week looking for you, over a 100°  for three days!   Had
a steak dinner at Jocko's in Nipomo and did some surf fishing at Oso Flaco. The
locals where very friendly, I might say!


----------



## ICE

I would like to write a simple correction that says "fix the obvious" prior to requesting inspection.


----------



## steveray

What? The unsupported hip rafters?


----------



## ICE

4" pipe in four places.


----------



## ICE

Roll in showers are popular.  No damned dam.    The black area on the floor is the spot that has water  for a pan test.  The contractor pointed out the the bathroom could never flood with this one.


----------



## ICE

Is it just me or does all of that venting and equipment on the roof ruin the aesthetic.  I guess that nobody was paying attention to the plumber as this progressed.


----------



## ICE

I like a huge glass wall....well not facing the sun.  Hence the massive blinds.




How about the chimney in the middle?  There are operable panes top and bottom but the blinds aren't helping air flow.  There are two wall jacks over the windows....I don't know what they are there for.  Kinda look like dryer vents but the location suggests roof drains which I doubt.  Perhaps there is a space between the ceiling and the roof and they are vents.  I suppose that they fit right in with the chimney.


----------



## steveray

ICE said:


> Is it just me or does all of that venting and equipment on the roof ruin the aesthetic.  I guess that nobody was paying attention to the plumber as this progressed.



Whatever takes away from the rest of the ugliness...


----------



## MtnArch

In response to #2380: Homemade Whack-A-Mole?


----------



## ICE

The correction asked for a four inch overlap of intact lath paper and a two inch overlap of the reinforcing wire.




While I was writing the correction I pointed out the exposed framing.




This is the outcome. I wasn't like I didn't explain the correction because I did.....


----------



## ICE

The code requires a 2/0 wire bend to have a minimum 4" radius.  Too many workers don't know that or they confuse radius with diameter.
This person went both ways.





I met this worker.  When I told him what was required he exclaimed that Edison wont allow a big loop that reaches near the bottom.  According to him Edison wants the space open in case they decide to feed underground and therefor the existing 2/0 wires would be in the way.  No kidding.....that's exactly what he said.




I have been asked why this matters.....many times.  I don't have a good answer so I made one up. Here goes: electricity is a phenomenon that takes place on an atomic scale.  It is the movement of electrons.

So the electrons are moving along a straight wire, well actually it's the hole where an electron was that's moving along the wire but that's not important here. Now the electrons hit a curve in the road. When the copper conductor is bent too tight, the atoms of copper are compressed together on one side and stretched apart on the other side. The electrons...er holes... have to slow down....but they can't and that generates heat in the wire.  Heat causes more turmoil in the atomic world and that causes more resistance.

As always, there are caveats.  For example if all of the available free electrons are just one color....blue is a good example.  All blue electrons is one way to overcome the compounding heat effect.  Blue is not known as a cool color for nothing.


----------



## ICE

Island sink


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


>



I have so many questions about that one I don't know where to start!


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> The code requires a 2/0 wire bend to have a minimum 4" radius.  Too many workers don't know that or they confuse radius with diameter.
> This person went both ways.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I met this worker.  When I told him what was required he exclaimed that Edison wont allow a big loop that reaches near the bottom.  According to him Edison wants the space open in case they decide to feed underground and therefor the existing 2/0 wires would be in the way.  No kidding.....that's exactly what he said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have been asked why this matters.....many times.  I don't have a good answer so I made one up. Here goes: electricity is a phenomenon that takes place on an atomic scale.  It is the movement of electrons.
> 
> So the electrons are moving along a straight wire, well actually it's the hole where an electron was that's moving along the wire but that's not important here. Now the electrons hit a curve in the road. When the copper conductor is bent too tight, the atoms of copper are compressed together on one side and stretched apart on the other side. The electrons...er holes... have to slow down....but they can't and that generates heat in the wire.  Heat causes more turmoil in the atomic world and that causes more resistance.
> 
> As always, there are caveats.  For example if all of the available free electrons are just one color....blue is a good example.  All blue electrons is one way to overcome the compounding heat effect.  Blue is not known as a cool color for nothing.


Tiger:

You forgot to add that those electrons have to flow down from the solar panels unimpeded and up into that huge storage pond so they can flow back down easily and power all the electric cars and scooters that the fat people drive.  I know, I saw it myself, I went to Costco yesterday, I'm going to buy some shin guards, I haven't seen anything like this since bumper cars in Playland.


----------



## ICE

It is usually not so obvious that there is a hole behind the enclosure.




The contractor tried to convince me that the five separate entries are raceway to a j-box that is located in a crawl space. He is adamant that the wall is sealed around each raceway.....caulking that is.




He left this hole but was scrupulous about sealing around his conduits?




There is a witness.




Dead birds sing no songs.


----------



## steveray

Ahhhh....The rarely seen bottle opener vent....



ICE said:


> Island sink


----------



## mmmarvel

ICE said:


> Island sink



Just had an artistic moment and had to let it out - wow.


----------



## ICE

The job is a new nearly flat roof structure on a garage.




You can see by the plan that it's not a complicated project.  It seems a bit odd what with the 4x blocking and strap.....but hey now an engineer came up with this.




There is the strap.





There is a detail that calls for a 3/8" thick steel angle on each side of the 4x10 where it bears on the sill.  Somehow it morphed into this.  There are 88 angles.




If there weren't 4x10s this would have failed for the weight.


----------



## Msradell

Can we say OVERKILL?


----------



## TheCommish

if all the  framers did such nice work we would be better  off


----------



## Pcinspector1

Roof Diaphragm: Plans call for 15/32 OSB? Looks like YP plywood, a little better than CDX grade I think?


----------



## conarb

Maybe it's designed for those big motorized wheelchairs?  Watch out, it will be in the codes next.


----------



## ICE

The form boards are seven deep on the outside.....just as they are on the inside.




I informed the contractor that all of the form-work must be removed after the placing of concrete.  He thought for a moment and said that he would dig a trench all the way around the perimeter.


----------



## TheCommish

Ice, 2 questions;
does the contractor think the forms without ties are not going to blow out?
are the bolts sticking through for a floor ledger?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Does the wall perimeter get drain tile and gravel? Will it drain to daylight?


----------



## ICE

One way to ruin a house.


----------



## ICE

The fire truck was parked in my driveway. Most every driveway had a fire truck.   That was last Monday.  My neighbors had to evacuate until midday Wednesday.  Today is Sunday, six days later, and there are still many fire trucks in the area.  At the height of the fire there was 272 engines on the streets.  DC10s were bombing the hillsides and dozens of Sikorskys were working day and night.

---------------------------------------------------------------VIDEO---------------------------------------------------------------





The spots are burning embers.  It was raining fire.  Coyotes were running down the street.




Ominous looking a few hours before the fire arrived.




As the fire got close the tankers started to worry me.


----------



## steveray

ICE said:


> Coyotes were running down the street.



Were they smuggling people back to Mexico?

Hope you make it out unscathed...


----------



## conarb

Looks like you have a tile roof and stucco walls on your house, hopefully you have fire-dampened vents as well.


----------



## steveray

If you cover your house in ivy, will that make it less likely to burn? Maybe that is what they were going for in the "green building" above...


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> If you cover your house in ivy, will that make it less likely to burn? Maybe that is what they were going for in the "green building" above...


I think the plant will burn....especially if it dies and dries out.  The stucco is ruined and bugs live in it.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Does the wall perimeter get drain tile and gravel? Will it drain to daylight?


The job is in another inspector's area so I am not sure what the plan is.  That inspector had requested a drainage plan prior to my inspection but they didn't produce one.  The person in charge apparently lacks knowledge regarding construction practices and the plans show a flat lot.


----------



## ICE

There's a lot of wood involved with the form-work.







The plan is to reuse the 2"x in the addition. So they lined the inside of the forms with Visqueen.




I thought that was a great idea....and would have worked had it been 6mil instead of 2mil.  They also missed the second top bar.


----------



## conarb

Those forms and steel work don't look like they are in the California I know, where are the engineers?


----------



## ICE

The inspection request stated "bathroom remodel".  It was the first inspection requested for the project.  The only permit is for the bathroom remodel.
I was met by the couple that own the house and two men that said that they represent the bank that is lending the money for the remodel.  I was asked repeatedly for my opinion of the quality of the work.




The kitchen is gone.




A wall was removed and a beam installed.  Then part of the wall was replaced.




A window has been installed in a bedroom.





So there is a permit for a bathroom remodel and that's it.  The kitchen is gone....bedroom closets have been created....a bearing wall has been removed with a beam installed to replace the wall....much of the exterior cladding has been removed and the entire house has been rewired.  All of that and the two guys from the bank are concerned about the quality of the work.

I made it clear to them that quality is not my responsibility and I do not render opinions.


----------



## JCraver

ICE-  Is it common out there for contractors to reuse their form boards in the construction?  Or to use 2x material as forms in general?  I realize you very rarely ever show us any "good" work, but I just can't get around the idea of those forms.  'Round here the locals would get a great big good belly laugh at a guy who tried something like that.

Last time I rented forms I think they were ~$3.00/foot.  Maybe your prices out there are a lot higher?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Wonder what the bankers paid for, labor? Any receipts?


----------



## ICE

JCraver said:


> ICE-  Is it common out there for contractors to reuse their form boards in the construction?  Or to use 2x material as forms in general?  I realize you very rarely ever show us any "good" work, but I just can't get around the idea of those forms.  'Round here the locals would get a great big good belly laugh at a guy who tried something like that.
> 
> Last time I rented forms I think they were ~$3.00/foot.  Maybe your prices out there are a lot higher?



2"x forms are the norm around here.  We don't build basements so Simplex forms aren't used here.  Reuse of the forms in the construction does happen.  Exposure to the wet concrete isn't a problem and as long as the boards were not coated with diesel, I can't think of a reason to say no.  Shirley you folks will correct me if I am missing something.


----------



## Msradell

JCraver said:


> ICE-  Is it common out there for contractors to reuse their form boards in the construction?  Or to use 2x material as forms in general?  I realize you very rarely ever show us any "good" work, but I just can't get around the idea of those forms.  'Round here the locals would get a great big good belly laugh at a guy who tried something like that.
> 
> Last time I rented forms I think they were ~$3.00/foot.  Maybe your prices out there are a lot higher?


It's that way around here, I can't even think of the last time I saw 2x used for forms. Contractors if the rent forms or a few of the larger ones have their own. This applies to both residential work commercial work.


----------



## steveray

I wouldn't be surprised if the next time you went there the taper was hanging from that register in the ceiling....


----------



## ICE

The request slip said "foundation inspection".  I wrote plumbing corrections and then in passing mentioned the rebar running in two directions.  The worker said that it does run in two directions, East and West just like ther plans state.




There's no arguing with the plans.




Just in case you were wondering, he thought that E.W. meant East and West.  So I showed him with my trusty iPhone that he was off by 35°.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE, I'd writ em up , I think he's got them going N to S, the suns on his paints. Can't see any moss to be for sure?


----------



## Norcal

ICE said:


> The code requires a 2/0 wire bend to have a minimum 4" radius.  Too many workers don't know that or they confuse radius with diameter.
> This person went both ways.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I met this worker.  When I told him what was required he exclaimed that Edison wont allow a big loop that reaches near the bottom.  According to him Edison wants the space open in case they decide to feed underground and therefor the existing 2/0 wires would be in the way.  No kidding.....that's exactly what he said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have been asked why this matters.....many times.  I don't have a good answer so I made one up. Here goes: electricity is a phenomenon that takes place on an atomic scale.  It is the movement of electrons.
> 
> So the electrons are moving along a straight wire, well actually it's the hole where an electron was that's moving along the wire but that's not important here. Now the electrons hit a curve in the road. When the copper conductor is bent too tight, the atoms of copper are compressed together on one side and stretched apart on the other side. The electrons...er holes... have to slow down....but they can't and that generates heat in the wire.  Heat causes more turmoil in the atomic world and that causes more resistance.
> 
> As always, there are caveats.  For example if all of the available free electrons are just one color....blue is a good example.  All blue electrons is one way to overcome the compounding heat effect.  Blue is not known as a cool color for nothing.



All doofy needs to do is move the lugs to the top bus bars, as copper is not cheap it would save some money too ,it's one nice feature of a panel suitable for either overhead, or underground feeds.


----------



## my250r11

ICE said:


> East and West just like ther plans state.



That is freaking hilarious!!!! Hadn't heard that one before. Wonder what he thought O.C. meant.


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for an electrical service upgrade.  The panel is in the backyard.  The workman asked me if I was okay with loose dogs.  I said that depends on the dogs.  It was spaniels.  Shlt covered spaniels.  While I was fending off one, the other pissed on my foot. 




I'm not sure what the white stuff is......could be a special type of mold.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Msradell

> I'm not sure what the white stuff is......could be a special type of mold.



Looks like they mugged a toy of some kind or tore a pillow or furniture apart, it looks like stuffing to me.


----------



## tmurray

ICE said:


>



Do you have a photo from the inside? I'm wondering at what point they figured out the beam was going to protrude out the roof. A nice little gable would cover it nicely, but they probably could have buried it with a little more work...Looks like a "not my job" decision.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Maybe there setting it up for a clay roof?


----------



## ICE

There are institutions that everyday people must deal with.  Library.  DMV.  Hospital.  Police and Firemen.  Postal Service.  Then there's the rest of life with family, coworkers, waitresses, store clerks, dry cleaner and that person walking their dog. During each interaction with the aforementioned, most people can be treated as genuine.  Now enter the Building Dept. Zone.  Lying is de rigueur.  Most people don't habitually lie because they embarrass themselves but more importantly they prefer to think that telling the truth is expected of you too.  So why is it that when in the BDZ lies roll past lips like a mint julep or ice cream on chocolate cake or a strawberry tart?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Some of us are this?


----------



## ICE

Solar company did a service upgrade....or as they like to call it, an MPU.




My guess is that they poured a bunch of it in the gap.


----------



## MtnArch

MPU ... "Mostly Pucked Up"?


----------



## my250r11

I have roofing contractors that do about the same.


----------



## ICE

I wonder what that stuff is.  I didn't get close enough to touch it.  The guy that meets me never knows much about anything.


----------



## ICE

This one could have been tragic.  The job is a foyer / grand entry.  Killer front door if metal is your thing.  That and an addition to a storage room of about 150 sqft.  The house is 4500 sqft with a family.  I don't know how many make a family but I met mom and son while dad walked the dog.  A nice home.

These panels are in the storage room and I found them while performing a final inspection.  It was my first time there and I was concerned that I would get chewed out for being an hour early.  Well not to worry, the lady was okay with it and I found the husband a few blocks away as I left the scene of the crime.

These panels have been dangerous for several months.  The lady said that her architect suggested an inspection so as to "find out what's not done".  Lucky me....she was in a hurry cleaning and preparing for a throng celebrating Thanksgiving at her home.  I showed her that it is deadly with a tester that has lights and sounds.














Yet again I was told that the covers were only open today and because I was early I got there before they had a chance to close them.  They couldn't fit covers because of the drywall and look at the pile of dust.




There was no need to lie.


----------



## TheCommish

can you say fire hazzard?


----------



## FLSTF01

It's a little hard to tell in the picture, but in the sub panel, the 20 amp cheater breaker on the bottom left, second from the bottom, seems to have both the red and black conductors of a shared neutral circuit connected to it.  This would allow 40 amps total to return on the shared neutral.  

I also don't see a separate equipment grounding conductor going to the ground bar of the sub panel.  Is there a conduit nipple connecting the two panels that serves to bond the two cabinets together?

Of course those are just a few of the obvious issues.  It never ceases to amaze me how bad unsafe some installations can be.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Would be a bit alarmed about the two wires under one lug, wires being different size, wiring being dissimilar metals ..ooh and the correct torque requirement can't be correct. This would never pass in Santa Ana!


----------



## ICE

The panels are existing.  It was an accident that I saw them without covers.  There’s a service panel somewhere. I wonder how bad this can all become.  The owner claims that everything has been permitted and approved. I think that the  house was rewired.  They are probably not up for spending thousands more.

I’ll make a supervisor aware and recommend taking action.


----------



## ICE

The job is a PEX re-pipe.  Cutting open the walls and ceiling exposes stuff.









The tub plumber hacked the frame .... the re-pipe plumber chose a bad location for more holes.




Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that threaded waste fittings must remain accessible.  But ya know, that may be me being.....well me.....just as wrong as can be.

In the past I have run into threaded fittings that were glued.  One guy that did that said he too understood that threaded fittings shall remain accessible and he couldn't do that.  There was no way to install glued fittings.


----------



## ICE

A contractor did this.




Flipper met me for the inspection.  He wanted me to explain what was wrong....which I did.  All of the windows are like this....sliders too.




PL400 sub-floor adhesive.  The windows will come out in pieces.




You could toss that house off a cliff and the windows ain't coming out.


----------



## Msradell

Well, the contract said "install new windows", that's what the contractor did!


----------



## MtnArch

"It's the way I've always done it!"


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

The job is a bathroom remodel.  The window was raised and the stucco is not attached to the framing.  "Well" says the contractor, "The wall framing was rotten"......Therefor, the existing stucco was not attached to the framing so why should he do any different.


----------



## fatboy

ICE said:


>



OH MY.............that got a full blown, belly.....LOL..........Serious?


----------



## ICE

This is as much as most inspectors ever see.





This is what they are missing.




It is always like this to one degree or another.  This damage calls for a 5' structural strap wrapped around a corner.  How often have you asked for that correction?  How about the integrity of a fireblock?


----------



## ICE

The job is a kitchen remodel.  I was there for a final inspection.  The three receptacles in the picture are all that's there.  Two are missing....on both sides of the sink....missing not by inches, but by feet.




There is a receptacle where it can't be....under a counter with an 8" overhang.


----------



## ICE

There's three posts that must be done over.  You've got to wonder how it got this far.


----------



## steveray

The receptacle CAN be there....Just not if it is the required countertop receptacle....

Those rafters are awesome! Remember FB, they don't get any snow there....HA!


----------



## tmurray

I'm not familiar with those post bases. Is there supposed to be that space below them?

I've never seen someone try to block up a column with plywood...


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> The receptacle CAN be there....Just not if it is the required countertop receptacle....
> QUOTE]
> 
> I see your point.


----------



## mark handler

tmurray said:


> I'm not familiar with those post bases. Is there supposed to be that space below them?


*Stand off post base, no the concrete is required. 




*


----------



## tmurray

mark handler said:


> *Stand off post base, no the concrete is required.
> 
> 
> 
> *


Thanks Mark!

I think they might be missing some of that side cover as well.


----------



## linnrg

spell check is needed


----------



## mark handler

linnrg said:


> spell check is needed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2711


they are re-mold-ins
I hope it is not _Stachybotrys or "toxic black mold"_


----------



## ICE

The contractor went to the office to complain about me.  He demanded a code section for each correction.  The job is just one room and he only got eleven corrections so I don't understand why he is so upset.


----------



## ICE

mark handler said:


> *Stand off post base, no the concrete is required.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


That is similar.  The ones used require 3" edge distance.  I also noticed that they are not supposed to be used for freestanding structures like carports....they do not resist rotation.


----------



## steveray

Shim shiminy, Shim shiminy, Shim shiminy, Shimroo..... I would have to look at door manufacturer instructions on that....Most of the Simpson post bases do have a set distance to edge of pier, very rarely do the contractors know that...


----------



## Pcinspector1

Post # 2446

That's a real "pickle" can't find a solution with any Simpson products, they require additional side cover or more base, looks like a job for "super engineer!"


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Post # 2446
> 
> That's a real "pickle" can't find a solution with any Simpson products, they require additional side cover or more base, looks like a job for "super engineer!"



The correction notice said to provide an engineered fix.  A lady came to the counter and asked me how I want her to fix the problem.  She was quick to point out that the hardware is called out on the plans....."so if you guys missed something here".....it's causing Harshness to be unleashed.


----------



## ICE

This is 13'8" of braced wall.


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


> This is 13'8" of braced wall.


And my head I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain


----------



## tmurray

ICE said:


>



Our code requires the studs are continuous for the entire storey to prevent a hinge wall effect. Is that also required in the US?


----------



## Pcinspector1

tmurray, could you post that part of your code, I like to see how that's worded? 

There's a limit to the height a stud can be, table R602.3.1.


----------



## tmurray

9.23.10.4. Continuity of Studs
1) Wall studs shall be continuous for the full storey height except at openings
and shall not be spliced except by fingerjoining with a structural adhesive. (See
Note A-9.23.10.4.(1).)

A-9.23.1 0.4.(1) Fingerjoined Lumber. NLGA 2014, "Standard Grading Rules for Canadian Lumber,"
referenced in Article 9.3.2.1., refers to two special product standards, SPS-1, "Fingerjoined Structural Lumber,"
and SPS-3, "Fingerjoined "Vertical Stud Use Only" Lumber," produced by NLGA. Material identified as
conforming to these standards is considered to meet the requirements in this Sentence for joining with a
structural adhesive. Lumber fingerjoined in accordance with SPS-3 should be used as a vertical end-loaded
member in compression only, where sustained bending or tension-loading conditions are not present, and
where the moisture content of the wood will not exceed 19%. Fingerjoined lumber may not be visually
regraded or remanufactured into a higher stress grade even if the quality of the lumber containing fingerjoints
would otherwise warrant such regrading.

From the intent statement:
*Intent 1:*
To limit the probability of discontinuity, which could lead to member instability, which could lead to an inability to resist expected gravity or lateral loads, which could lead to excessive deflection or failure.

This is to limit the probability of compromised structural integrity, which could lead to:


the structural collapse of wood-frame construction, or
where wood-frame construction supports or is part of an environmental separator, the excessive deformation, displacement or failure of required environmental separation elements, which could lead to deterioration, which could lead to further compromised structural integrity.


This is to limit the probability of harm to persons.


----------



## MtnArch

Never seen blue and red anchor bolts like those ... something new from Simpson?


----------



## ICE

tmurray said:


> 9.23.10.4. Continuity of Studs
> 1) Wall studs shall be continuous for the full storey height except at openings
> and shall not be spliced except by fingerjoining with a structural adhesive. (See
> Note A-9.23.10.4.(1).)
> 
> A-9.23.1 0.4.(1) Fingerjoined Lumber. NLGA 2014, "Standard Grading Rules for Canadian Lumber,"
> referenced in Article 9.3.2.1., refers to two special product standards, SPS-1, "Fingerjoined Structural Lumber,"
> and SPS-3, "Fingerjoined "Vertical Stud Use Only" Lumber," produced by NLGA. Material identified as
> conforming to these standards is considered to meet the requirements in this Sentence for joining with a
> structural adhesive. Lumber fingerjoined in accordance with SPS-3 should be used as a vertical end-loaded
> member in compression only, where sustained bending or tension-loading conditions are not present, and
> where the moisture content of the wood will not exceed 19%. Fingerjoined lumber may not be visually
> regraded or remanufactured into a higher stress grade even if the quality of the lumber containing fingerjoints
> would otherwise warrant such regrading.
> 
> From the intent statement:
> *Intent 1:*
> To limit the probability of discontinuity, which could lead to member instability, which could lead to an inability to resist expected gravity or lateral loads, which could lead to excessive deflection or failure.
> 
> This is to limit the probability of compromised structural integrity, which could lead to:
> 
> 
> the structural collapse of wood-frame construction, or
> where wood-frame construction supports or is part of an environmental separator, the excessive deformation, displacement or failure of required environmental separation elements, which could lead to deterioration, which could lead to further compromised structural integrity.
> 
> 
> This is to limit the probability of harm to persons.



The wall in the picture is not a bearing wall so the hinge is not a concern.


----------



## mark handler

MtnArch said:


> Never seen blue and red anchor bolts like those ... something new from Simpson?


Not Simpson, hot and cold water plastic sleeves for embedded pipe


----------



## Paul Sweet

Why are all the pipes running down into the slab and looping right back up?  Did somebody think that they're what is bracing the wall?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Protecting that copper from the concrete I suspect. 

Is that a building sewer 10-ft head of water test for 15 minutes?

I've done 4 of those in another city and three failed, that's a PITA, always gotta go back!


----------



## Phil

ICE said:


> The wall in the picture is not a bearing wall so the hinge is not a concern.



Dead and live loads aren't the problem. It is the wind and seismic loads. The wall will have a tendency to fold at the hinge with wind or seismic.


----------



## Msradell

Paul Sweet said:


> Why are all the pipes running down into the slab and looping right back up?  Did somebody think that they're what is bracing the wall?


I'm not sure my legs didn't run the pipes from point-to-point inside the wall but I'm sure those loops are so they don't have to have any joints in the piping under the floor. It certainly would have been easier to just come up once and then run through the wall. Another option which is used quite often is to run home runs for each point of use from a central manifold. It takes more pipe but offers several advantages.


----------



## ICE

Phil said:


> Dead and live loads aren't the problem. It is the wind and seismic loads. The wall will have a tendency to fold at the hinge with wind or seismic.



Some would say that the wall is a bearing wall by default because it is an exterior wall.  The ceiling is vaulted.  The wall above the top plate is 8” tall at the left end and 28” tall at the right.  The rafters and joists run parallel to the wall.  Balloon framing would have been stronger.....


----------



## MtnArch

mark handler said:


> Not Simpson, hot and cold water plastic sleeves for embedded pipe


I know, Mark!  Just tryin' to make a funny!!

(yup ... would starve as a stand-up comic!)


----------



## fatboy

ICE said:


> Some would say that the wall is a bearing wall by default because it is an exterior wall.  The ceiling is vaulted.  The wall above the top plate is 8” tall at the left end and 28” tall at the right.  The rafters and joists run parallel to the wall.  Balloon framing would have been stronger.....



I missed one just like that, non-bearing, but had the hinge pretty tall, maybe 20', 30' long (long time ago). Got a call from the owner, another city employee, (cop no less) on morning after a windy northern CO night. He swore the thing was flexing six inches at the plate. He had an engineer evaluate it, he ended up removing all the WB on the interior of that wall, so that he could install and attach 6 full length studs in the middle of the wall. Then install 3/4" cdx, prior to re-installing the WB and finishing. A little overkill on the engineers part I think, but given the circumstance, I'm sure it was a CYA.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

They complain when I tell them to remove the stucco patch all the way around the enclosure for inspection.
We let just about anybody obtain a permit for just about anything as long as the word solar is in the description of work.


----------



## ICE

This doesn't happen often.


----------



## ICE

Just a wild guess on my part but I doubt that there's a permit to ruin the look of this property.


----------



## JCraver

ICE said:


> This doesn't happen often.





Do you guys out there ever permit your contractors to "float" the anchor bolts in as they pour, or do they all have to have them set like that pre-pour?  I've only seen that a couple times around here - even on big commercial jobs, most everybody floats them in.


----------



## ICE

As far as I know, we have never allowed wet setting anchors.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Their floaters here! and if they forget their drillers!


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> This doesn't happen often.



A little grassy and the quarry was closed.


----------



## JCraver

ICE said:


> As far as I know, we have never allowed wet setting anchors.



Interesting.


----------



## ICE

JCraver said:


> Interesting.


I spent twenty minute this morning looking for a code for that.  I didn't find it in the Residential Code or the Building Code.  Oh well....I'll pencil it in.


----------



## Msradell

I'm not sure if code really prevents wet setting anchors but that's certainly a poor method of doing it.  It's hit or miss whether you get them in the correct locations or not and you certainly risk the integrity of the footings.  It may not be against code but it certainly isn't good practice.  I haven't seen wet set in a long time around here.


----------



## ICE

At footing inspections  I almost always find missing anchor bolts.  If they don’t get installed a special inspector is required for drilled anchors.  That’s $250 or more just for the inspector.  If I let them stick them in wet concrete a deputy inspector would be sent to every job.  Besides that, there’s a code or ACI rule against it.  I just haven’t found it.


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


> I spent twenty minute this morning looking for a code for that.  I didn't find it in the Residential Code or the Building Code.  Oh well....I'll pencil it in.


SECTION R506
CONCRETE FLOORS (ON GROUND)
R506.1 General. Concrete slab-on-ground floors shall be
designed and constructed in accordance with the provisions
of this section or ACI 332. Floors shall be a minimum 31/2
inches (89 mm) thick (for expansive soils, see Section
R403.1.8). The specified compressive strength of concrete
shall be as set forth in Section R402.2.
R506.2 Site preparation. The area within the foundation walls
shall have *all vegetation, top soil and foreign material removed.*
R506.2.1 Fill. *Fill material shall be free of vegetation and
foreign material.* The fill shall be compacted to ensure uniform
support of the slab, and except where approved, the
fill depths shall not exceed 24 inches (610 mm) for clean
sand or gravel and 8 inches (203 mm) for earth.


----------



## ICE

Thanks for that Mark.  How about a code for the anchor bolts and wet setting.


----------



## steveray

I would say ACI 318, but I can't afford that here....


----------



## steveray

Some info although its IBC and reinforcing, not bolts....

1810.3.9.3 Placement of reinforcement. Reinforcement
where required shall be assembled and tied together and shall
be placed in the deep foundation element as a unit before the
reinforced portion of the element is filled with concrete.
Exceptions:
1. Steel dowels embedded 5 feet (1524 mm) or less
shall be permitted to be placed after concreting,
while the concrete is still in a semifluid state.
2. For deep foundation elements installed with a hollow-
stem auger, tied reinforcement shall be placed
after elements are concreted, while the concrete is
still in a semifluid state. Longitudinal reinforcement
without lateral ties shall be placed either through the
hollow stem of the auger prior to concreting or after
concreting, while the concrete is still in a semifluid
state.
3. For Group R-3 and U occupancies not exceeding
two stories of light-frame construction, reinforcement
is permitted to be placed after concreting,
while the concrete is still in a semifluid state, and the
concrete cover requirement is permitted to be
reduced to 2 inches (51 mm), provided the construction
method can be demonstrated to the satisfaction
of the building official.


----------



## steveray

strength design of anchors installed in concrete for purposes
of transmitting structural loads from one connected element
to the other. Headed bolts, headed studs and hooked (J- or L-)
bolts cast in concrete and expansion anchors and undercut
anchors installed in hardened concrete shall be designed in
accordance with Appendix D of ACI 318 as modified by Sections
1905.1.9 and 1905.1.10, provided they are within the
scope of Appendix D.
The strength design of anchors that are not within the
scope of Appendix D of ACI 318, and as amended in Sections
1905.1.9 and 1905.1.10, shall be in accordance with an
approved procedure.


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


> Thanks for that Mark.  How about a code for the anchor bolts and wet setting.


*Nothing in the code but this is from the web *

http://kimballeng.blogspot.com/2009/11/wet-setting-anchor-boltsholdowns.html

"....vertical reinforcement and other items that are to be embedded in the concrete are often "wet-set" or "wet-stabbed" in addition to anchor bolts and holdowns. This tends to occur more often in residential construction, rather than commercial, as special inspections are often required in commercial construction for these elements. 

So why should these elements be tied in place prior to the concrete pour? The Structural Engineer's Association of Utah (SEAU) recently published a letter addressed to building officials addressing this issue. The following text is taken directlly from that letter and includes specific code references and SEAU's explanation as to why wet-setting should not be allowed. 

IBC Section 1912 states that anchors shall be designed per Appendix D of ACI 318, where even the preliminary “Definitions” section calls out an “Anchor” as either being “cast into concrete” or “post-installed into hardened concrete”, and not listing “wet setting” as an option. Even more clear is the definition of “Cast-in Anchor” in the same section, where it states “installed before placing concrete” (italics added). IBC Table 1704.4 calls specifically for the periodic inspection of “reinforcing steel, including … placement”, but calls for continuous inspection for “bolts to be installed in concrete prior to and during placement”. IBC 1704.13 also states that unusual “Materials and systems required to be installed in accordance with additional manufacturer’s instructions that prescribe requirements not contained in this code” shall require special inspection. Section 109.3.1 calls out that “any required reinforcing steel is in place” prior to foundation inspections, and section 109.3.2 states that “other ancillary equipment items are in place … before any concrete is placed” below slabs. While none of this states “anchor bolts” or “holdown straps” tied into place, the intent seems obvious.


The IBC does have exceptions to the special inspection requirements in section 1704, primarily for “minor” work or for “Group R-3” residential construction. But even in the IRC, Section R109.1.1, it again requires that “any required reinforcing steel is in place and supported prior to the placing of concrete”. If the reinforcing is required to be in place prior to inspection, it only seems a natural extension that the IRC also intends for anchorages that rely upon the strength of this adjacent reinforcing to also be in place prior to inspection and placing of concrete.


As interpreted from the code, SEAU recommends that all embedded anchors and other hardware for IBC governed construction be firmly supported and tied into place prior to pouring of concrete, or that the placement of these anchors is continuously special inspected as they are being “wet set”. We also recommend this same interpretation be used for embedded light gage straps and other undefined anchors. Light gage holdown straps and other similar anchors are no longer considered “unusual”, but they certainly do carry with them “additional manufacturer’s instructions” for careful installation, and are normally a part of the seismic force resisting system. The action of tying all anchors into place before pouring, rather than allowing “wet setting” of anchors during pouring, helps to insure proper consolidation of concrete around the anchor and thus proper structural action of the anchor as it takes structural loads. Most Engineers, as well as most Building Officials, have seen the voids often left to one side or the other of a “wet set” bolt or dowel or strap – sometimes obviously reducing it’s structural capacity and increasing liability to the Engineer, Building Official, Owner and Contractor. When embedded dowels, bolts and straps are “wet set” we would recommend that a randomly selected portion of these embedded hardware are pull tested to full rated capacity prior to acceptance by the Engineer or Building Official.


----------



## JCraver

It's all interpretation, which is why I "let" them do it here.  Until the code says "anchor bolts must be tied in place prior to placement of concrete" or some such, we're stretching (IMO) to tell them they can't.

Commercial is a little different, and I almost buy that you can stretch it enough to get there.  But it's still a stretch.  Thankfully, most plans have a note that covers it.


----------



## Inspector Gift

Simpson StrongTie's requirement for anchors, state they are to be installed "before the concrete pour".  All proprietary anchors are to be installed per the manufacturer's listing and per the engineering.

Special Inspection for anchors cast in concrete is required per IBC TABLE 1705.3 and ACI 318.17.82.


----------



## conarb

Mark Handler said:
			
		

> Most Engineers, as well as most Building Officials, have seen the voids often left to one side or the other of a “wet set” bolt or dowel or strap – sometimes obviously reducing it’s structural capacity and increasing liability to the Engineer, Building Official, Owner and Contractor. When embedded dowels, bolts and straps are “wet set” we would recommend that a randomly selected portion of these embedded hardware are pull tested to full rated capacity prior to acceptance by the Engineer or Building Official.



I disagree, I come from an era where all foundation bolts were wet-set and tried to continue to do so until retirement, what I do is have the mudsills drilled with the bolts in the holes and lying on the forms for the inspector to see, I say "try to continue to do so" because most foundations are now formed and poured by cement masons and not carpenters.  We get a much better embedment and seal between the concrete and the mudsill when we wet-set, my procedure is to set the mudsills/bolts on the wet concrete having a man on the forms with a sledgehammer and a surveyors' rod, I try to be on the transit myself and tell the guy with the sledgehammer and rod when to stop pounding the mudsill down into the concrete.  If the bolt is cast in the concrete you have to set the mudsill on dry concrete and it's impossible to get complete embedment and a good seal, to do it right you have to grout under all mudsills, a long labor-intensive procedure, I remember an old inspector who checked the embedment of the mudsill in the concrete with a cigarette paper. 

Where this all broke down was when the unions lost control, in the union days a cement finisher couldn't build forms higher than 12", carpenters built the forms and set the mudsills, cement finishers were confined to flat work, or nothing above curb height and don't have the ability to set mudsills. 

Were I an inspector today, which I would never be, if the bolts were hung to be poured in I would require a grouting inspection because most are just going to set the mudsills without grouting them in.


----------



## linnrg

for plates with nelson studs or other structural embedments, or large diameter anchor group for columns they are usually template arranged and attached to the forms (accuracy).  All small j bolts are typically wet set hereabouts.  I have a ACI 318-08 Appendix D does not state anything against wetset.


----------



## mark handler

Some Problems with wet setting bolts

Many installers push the aggregate out of the way and the steel is then covered by just the cream, sometimes with a void over it, with few or no rocks to really hook it down, it's easier to pull an anchor back out.

Second, the hand set bolts are commonly, *NOT ALWAYS,* misplaced and is it is almost impossible to maintain the min 3" of cover from the outside of the concrete so the steel is much more subject to corrosion from moisture and oxygen. Rust is much bigger than the original steel. Steel rusting and swelling is every bit as powerful as wood swelling, it'll bust concrete as it rusts.

The verticality is, many times, compromised and the framer has to oversize the plate holes.


*The inspector allows wet set bolts... We can save money....Nice bolt withdrawal *


----------



## JCraver

mark handler said:


> Some Problems with wet setting bolts
> 
> Many installers push the aggregate out of the way and the steel is then covered by just the cream, sometimes with a void over it, with few or no rocks to really hook it down, it's easier to pull an anchor back out.
> 
> Second, the hand set bolts are commonly, *NOT ALWAYS,* misplaced and is it is almost impossible to maintain the min 3" of cover from the outside of the concrete so the steel is much more subject to corrosion from moisture and oxygen. Rust is much bigger than the original steel. Steel rusting and swelling is every bit as powerful as wood swelling, it'll bust concrete as it rusts.
> 
> The verticality is, many times, compromised and the framer has to oversize the plate holes.
> 
> 
> *The inspector allows wet set bolts... We can save money....Nice bolt withdrawal *
> View attachment 2717




The difference in your pic is that you're on a commercial job there, and I'd bet a $100 bill that there was a note on the plans about the anchor bolts.  You're not going to have the potential for that type of lever situation in 99.99999999% of residential wood-framed jobs.


----------



## JCraver

conarb said:


> I disagree, I come from an era where all foundation bolts were wet-set and tried to continue to do so until retirement, what I do is have the mudsills drilled with the bolts in the holes and lying on the forms for the inspector to see, I say "try to continue to do so" because most foundations are now formed and poured by cement masons and not carpenters.  We get a much better embedment and seal between the concrete and the mudsill when we wet-set, *my procedure is to set the mudsills/bolts on the wet concrete having a man on the forms with a sledgehammer and a surveyors' rod, I try to be on the transit myself and tell the guy with the sledgehammer and rod when to stop pounding the mudsill down into the concrete*.  If the bolt is cast in the concrete you have to set the mudsill on dry concrete and it's impossible to get complete embedment and a good seal, to do it right you have to grout under all mudsills, a long labor-intensive procedure, I remember an old inspector who checked the embedment of the mudsill in the concrete with a cigarette paper.
> 
> Where this all broke down was when the unions lost control, in the union days a cement finisher couldn't build forms higher than 12", carpenters built the forms and set the mudsills, cement finishers were confined to flat work, or nothing above curb height and don't have the ability to set mudsills.
> 
> Were I an inspector today, which I would never be, if the bolts were hung to be poured in I would require a grouting inspection because most are just going to set the mudsills without grouting them in.




I don't think I've ever seen an embedded plate.  Our old, old houses are all on brick, block or stone foundations, but even on the newer old houses, when these farmers started forming basement walls with 2x's, they didn't embed the plates.  Maybe those union concrete guys should have poured your walls level so you didn't have to do all that nonsense...


----------



## mark handler

JCraver said:


> The difference in your pic is that you're on a commercial job there, and I'd bet a $100 bill that there was a note on the plans about the anchor bolts.  You're not going to have the potential for that type of lever situation in 99.99999999% of residential wood-framed jobs.


You dont know that.
we use steel all the time in high seismic zones.


----------



## ICE

Years ago when I lived in Manitou Springs I built many foundations.  The sill was nailed to the inside of the forms.  The anchor bolts hung through the sill.  The concrete was placed up to the underside of the sill.  Hard to get that wrong.


----------



## conarb

mark handler said:


> Some Problems with wet setting bolts
> 
> Many installers push the aggregate out of the way and the steel is then covered by just the cream, sometimes with a void over it, with few or no rocks to really hook it down, it's easier to pull an anchor back out.
> 
> Second, the hand set bolts are commonly, *NOT ALWAYS,* misplaced and is it is almost impossible to maintain the min 3" of cover from the outside of the concrete so the steel is much more subject to corrosion from moisture and oxygen. Rust is much bigger than the original steel. Steel rusting and swelling is every bit as powerful as wood swelling, it'll bust concrete as it rusts.
> 
> The verticality is, many times, compromised and the framer has to oversize the plate holes.
> 
> 
> *The inspector allows wet set bolts... We can save money....Nice bolt withdrawal *
> View attachment 2717



First of all you appear to be taking a random shot posting it to make your point, we see no evidence of what's under those bolts, are they MB or JB?  This came up referencing wood mudsills, take a look at this picture: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





This is a recent picture of some templates holding bolts in a remodel job, note the already installed bolts in the upper right corner, also note that we have removed the steel template plate and made a plywood plate for easier nail attachment to the adjacent forms, also note in the lower right there are some templates with J Bolts instead of those steel plates designed for higher loads.  These bolts and their templates are for steel column bases like you showed above, how do you know whether the engineer calculated something like this in the picture you posted?  In the same job there are both embeded 3x8 redwood mudsills and 3x8 redwood mudsills that I hung the bolts from Simpson bolt hangers.  

BTW, all jobs with steel columns like you posted require special Inspection, your picture shows a failure in either engineering or special inspection and has nothing to do with the point here about mudsill bolts being hung in place for inspection vs mudsills with bolts hanging from them to be embedded in wet concrete.


----------



## mark handler

Unless the inspector is on site observing the bolt insertion,  there is no way to determine the proper embedment is being done.are they using the proper length bolts.

When I practiced Architecture,  I had a note on the plans that All embedments, shall be wired in place prior to placement of the concrete.

In a housing tract,  1/2"×8"s vs 1/2"×12"s saves a lot of money.


----------



## ICE

There is no legitimate argument that condones wet setting anchors.  Sure there's practitioners here that make the claim that it's no big deal....only because that has been their habit.  As an inspector I need a consistent, proven method.  Wet setting is haphazard.  Wet setting requires a level of trust that nobody deserves.


----------



## ICE

_"also note that we have removed the steel template plate and made a plywood plate for easier nail attachment to the adjacent forms"
_
So you guys didn't have a drill motor?


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> There is no legitimate argument that condones wet setting anchors.  Sure there's practitioners here that make the claim that it's no big deal....only because that has been their habit.  As an inspector I need a consistent, proven method.  Wet setting is haphazard.  Wet setting requires a level of trust that nobody deserves.



Wet-setting has been done forever when we had real carpenters building the forms and pouring the concrete and I never had any problems, the secret is a good guy on the vibrator. 



			
				Tiger said:
			
		

> So you guys didn't have a drill motor?



I had concrete finishers building the forms and pouring, that's just the way they preferred to do it, I've argued this with them before, were I to build anymore I'd cut up a lot of plywood and bring it to the steel contractor's shop and have them use it for templates to begin with, doesn't make sense to have the steel fabricator build them with steel templates then to change them on the jobsite to wood templates.


----------



## mark handler

The issue of the voids or just "concrete cream" is usually only an issue with dynamic loading, earthquakes and wind. The anchor bolts transfer the dynamic forces into the foundation. the bolts are useless if there is a void or lack of bonding to the concrete. And when it occurs, like it did in the Northridge and the Loma Prieta Earthquake, the contractors do not look for the reason something failed. How can we patch it up and move to the next piggy bank.

Forensic Engineers and Architects *Did* look for the reasons. Undersized and improper bolt placement failures were observed, time after time.

The existing retrofit guidelines, such as the very dated Appendix chapter A3 of the International Existing Building Code, does not incorporate modern developments in wood frame retrofit construction, new hardware developments, or earthquake retrofit engineering knowledge gained from the Northridge and Loma Prieta Earthquakes.  It also neglect to address the variety of framing configurations found under old houses are not even addressed by these guidelines.


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> Wet-setting has been done forever when we had real carpenters building the forms and pouring the concrete and I never had any problems, the secret is a good guy on the vibrator.



There’s few real carpenters left and any procedure that relies on a secret is doomed.


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> There’s few real carpenters left and any procedure that relies on a secret is doomed.


When we hang the bolts in under columns, like I showed above, we grout under the steel column bases, I'd say if you hange the bolts then install the mudsills after the concrete is dry you should grout them as well.  As a carpenter I always used the business card test, if the mudsill isn't embedded in the concrete may be able to stick a business card between the mudsill and the concrete, actually when I was an apparentice they used a cigarette paper to test if the mudsill was tight to the concrete, almost impossible unless you grout the  mudsills in.  

Do you guys who require the bolts be hung in place also require grouting the mudsills?  You certainly require grouting under the column bases.


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> Do you guys who require the bolts be hung in place also require grouting the mudsills?  You certainly require grouting under the column bases.



Well no...the energy code requires caulk.


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> Well no...the energy code requires caulk.



I always wondered why the enrgy code required caulk, a properly seated mudsill doesn't allow air to pass.  If we have a mudsill that is not properly seated, either embedded or grouted, where is the support between bolts, I've seen bolts at 7' centers, you would allow an unsupported wall for 7'?  We have special inspection on everything we do here because of steel columns, I doubt that any special inspector is going to allow ungrouted mudsills if he can see under them, it also violates my construction standards if, as I said above, I can slip a business card under any mudsills or column bases, time to put that in the Tiger Code.


----------



## linnrg

well maybe one of those earthquake or wind test places could test the wet set versus tied in place - I would bet the results would be either or is just as effective.  Otherwise Me thinks there would be such a definitive statement(s) in the ACI book


----------



## JCraver

mark handler said:


> You dont know that.
> we use steel all the time in high seismic zones.



You're right.  I did leave in a 00000001% chance I was wrong...


----------



## classicT

As a present building inspector and former special inspector, I always want to see AB's in place. ACI 318 requires reinforcement to be in place, although Appendix D does not stipulate beyond definitions (*Cast-in Anchor - A headed bolt, headed stud, or hooked bolt installed before placing concrete*).

Per the definition, which fits our typical installation of hooked bolts for residential plate attachment to foundation wall, anchors shall be installed before the placement of concrete.

Now, in reality, I don't get what I always want - for residential, the plate anchors are 90% wet-set. As a jurisdiction, we have decided to accept wet-set anchors for plate attachment - all hold-downs or embedded bolts (for steel frames) are required to be in place prior to placement.

For commercial construction, everything to be in place prior to placement with special inspection.


----------



## conarb

JCraver said:


> You're right.  I did leave in a 00000001% chance I was wrong...


Where in Slobovia do you live?  When a SE plan checker finally relented and stamped my plans she said: "This house should have been all steel."  I said: "It's got a full steel frame."  She said: "But look at all the wood you are using, do you know how many trees will die so you can build this house?


----------



## ICE

Ty J. said:


> As a present building inspector and former special inspector, I always want to see AB's in place. ACI 318 requires reinforcement to be in place, although Appendix D does not stipulate beyond definitions (*Cast-in Anchor - A headed bolt, headed stud, or hooked bolt installed before placing concrete*).
> 
> Per the definition, which fits our typical installation of hooked bolts for residential plate attachment to foundation wall, anchors shall be installed before the placement of concrete.
> 
> Now, in reality, I don't get what I always want - for residential, the plate anchors are 90% wet-set. As a jurisdiction, we have decided to accept wet-set anchors for plate attachment - all hold-downs or embedded bolts (for steel frames) are required to be in place prior to placement.
> 
> For commercial construction, everything to be in place prior to placement with special inspection.


I don't agree with the premise that the definition of a cast in place anchor serves to ban wet set anchors.  At a framing inspection do you regularly find missing and misplaced anchors?


----------



## tmurray

ICE said:


> Years ago when I lived in Manitou Springs I built many foundations.  The sill was nailed to the inside of the forms.  The anchor bolts hung through the sill.  The concrete was placed up to the underside of the sill.  Hard to get that wrong.



Thats all I see.


----------



## tmurray

conarb said:


> Where in Slobovia do you live?  When a SE plan checker finally relented and stamped my plans she said: "This house should have been all steel."  I said: "It's got a full steel frame."  She said: "But look at all the wood you are using, do you know how many trees will die so you can build this house?



Did you not know it does not take any natural resources to make steel? Joking aside, trees soak up carbon like people do. When people are teenagers they eat a lot. When trees are at this point of their development they sequester a ton of carbon. A prominent environmentalist once said that if Canada wanted to really help curb world carbon releases, we would cut down all the trees. Store the lumber in salt mines so it can be used later and plant new trees. They estimated the carbon offset would set carbon releases back by a decade. That included carbon releases from harvesting and replanting.


----------



## classicT

No, we do not regularly find any - hence why we allow the exception for residential.

What I was stating was related to the definition - *Cast-in Anchor - A headed bolt, headed stud, or hooked bolt installed before placing concrete*

The definition states installed *before* placing concrete. Wet-setting is after placement, prior to initial set.


----------



## ICE

It's in a new house.  Every outlet is set back a


----------



## Norcal

ICE said:


> It's in a new house.  Every outlet is set back a 1/2".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if I've seen a worse example.  The outside is just as bad.



You going make them fix it? That is one of my pet peeves that nobody seems to be able to set boxes so the devices do not float & unless there is some mean of support they shatter standard wall plates when a plug is inserted or removed.


----------



## conarb

They still make steel plaster rings that can be screwed to the box to screw the outlets/fixtures to.


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> You going make them fix it? That is one of my pet peeves that nobody seems to be able to set boxes so the devices do not float & unless there is some mean of support they shatter standard wall plates when a plug is inserted or removed.


This inspection was for a service panel and it was my first time at this job.  This mistake should have been caught at the rough electrical inspection but alas and alack, that was approved by another person.
I don't make people fix anything.....I refuse to approve the work and they have options......one of which is fixing the mistake.

Conarb suggested metal mud rings.  Metal mud rings do not mate with these plastic boxes.  Furthermore, the random nature of the mistake rules out mud rings.  Next on the list is box extensions.  That solution relies on the extension mating with a solid surface and drywall/mud does not qualify as it can crumble over time.  That is especially true with tamper resistant receptacles because it takes greater pressure to insert an attachment plug.  The only fix is to start over.  Something that I learned early on is that it is never too late to start over.

Speaking of starting over.....it happened twice that day.  The job was a new house.
The worker was installing the copper pipe at a second floor bathroom.  Just about done, he was.  I saw that he was fixing to insert and solder the six inch piece in the picture.  What I didn't see him do was ream the pipe.  I summoned an English proficient translator and asked the worker if he reamed any of the pipe.  The workman immediately started to ream the pipe with a razor knife.  As it turned out the workman stated that he did not ream any of the pipe.  The copper pipe was nearly completed and I wrote a correction to start over.  I expect a pail of fittings and I will be cutting out a random spot or two.  I took these for proof of the violation.






Back to the outlet boxes.  I was met by a man whom I assumed to be the contractor.  The electric service was not ready for inspection as none of the conductors have been landed.  I first noticed the outlets for lights and receptacles on the outside.  The plaster is an inch thick before you hit the plastic box.  I saw the A/C line-set poking through the wall with no jack.....the clean-out set back.  It is emblematic of a less than stellar performance by so many.  I took a picture.




So in the house I go.  It is going to be a splendid home.  The ceilings are 12' high.  The rooms are large.  The paint scheme is tasteful and the walls are without imperfection.  That's gonna change up.  The guy that I thought was the contractor owns a concrete pump and also this house.  He hired contractors that he knew from his work.  I made it clear to him that If I am tasked with the final inspection for his house I will not approve the electrical even though it has been signed off previously.

The likely outcome is that I will be banned from that job.  Maybe the job with the pipe too.....could I be that lucky?


----------



## conarb

Tiger said:
			
		

> Conarb suggested metal mud rings. Metal mud rings do not mate with these plastic boxes. Furthermore, the random nature of the mistake rules out mud rings. Next on the list is box extensions. That solution relies on the extension mating with a solid surface and drywall/mud does not qualify as it can crumble over time.



I've never run into this since I've never used plastic boxes, but is there a code cite stating that you can't mate steel with plastic?


----------



## Norcal

conarb said:


> I've never run into this since I've never used plastic boxes, but is there a code cite stating that you can't mate steel with plastic?




How are you going to bond the metallic ring to the EGC?   Otherwise as soon as the device is removed the connection is lost, sounds like Bozo the "electrician" is going to need to buy some Smart Boxes® if they don't wish to do a lot of patching.


----------



## conarb

Norcal said:


> How are you going to bond the metallic ring to the EGC?   Otherwise as soon as the device is removed the connection is lost, sounds like Bozo the "electrician" is going to need to buy some Smart Boxes® if they don't wish to do a lot of patching.



I'm out of my element here not being an electrician, I leave it to them, but as I understand it with a metal box the entire box is grounded so there is no problem with a plaster ring, with a plastic box a lug-nut is bonded and the outlets/fixtures are wired to the lug-nuts, so how does adding a plaster ring change anything with a plastic box?


----------



## Norcal

conarb said:


> I'm out of my element here not being an electrician, I leave it to them, but as I understand it with a metal box the entire box is grounded so there is no problem with a plaster ring, with a plastic box a lug-nut is bonded and the outlets/fixtures are wired to the lug-nuts, so how does adding a plaster ring change anything with a plastic box?



All metallic parts need to be bonded together, relying on the device to bond metallic parts is no good, the fixture mounting straps when used w/ a NM box have a ground screw so that is taken care of, my opinion is use non-metallic rings w/ NM boxes, & metal rings with metal boxes, but that is not going to help the lousy install in the earlier photos, as plaster rings do not mate w/ the boxes used.  I used to be a fan of plastic boxes but a 4 square box, AKA a "1900 box" & a plaster ring 1/8" deeper then the finish material, 5/8" for 1/2", & 3/4" for 5/8" drywall, makes for a nice clean install.


----------



## ICE

Flipper here.  The job included a service panel upgrade and rewire the house.  The garage was not part of the scope of work.  It is now.


----------



## steveray

Are they relying on the gypsum for ground?


----------



## mtlogcabin

Norcal said:


> That is one of my pet peeves that nobody seems to be able to set boxes so the devices do not float & unless there is some mean of support they shatter standard wall plates when a plug is inserted or removed.





ICE said:


> Next on the list is box extensions. That solution relies on the extension mating with a solid surface and drywall/mud does not qualify as it can crumble over time. That is especially true with tamper resistant receptacles because it takes greater pressure to insert an attachment plug. The only fix is to start over.



Metal cover plates might work


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> Are they relying on the gypsum for ground?



Gosh....I hope not.


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:


> Metal cover plates might work



And they might not.


----------



## ICE

200 amp residential lateral

\


----------



## ICE

75mph


----------



## Norcal

ICE said:


> 200 amp residential lateral


That looks like a poorly done bootleg service change.


----------



## ICE

The job was a pex re-pipe.  I took this picture because there is a swimming pool that is accessed by the gate.




Today I noticed the vent.


----------



## ICE

A level headed guy might have done it differently.





The piece of 2"x4" is not flat on the CMU


----------



## ICE

As long as it sheds water....it can get pretty wild.







The vent caught them by surprise.
They nailed a strap tp the barge rafter....and split it.  How did they get this far into it without getting fired?




Worse that splitting the trim is leaving it that way.


----------



## ICE

Hard hat territory....like it would do you a whole Helluva lot of good.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE,
Post #2538, They could use "Brent the Kilted Warrior" on that job!


----------



## conarb

Pcinspector1 said:


> ICE,
> Post #2538, They could use "Brent the Kilted Warrior" on that job!



Naw, Brent is too smart a guy to use OSB.  I want to know how Tiger  gets up there to take these pictures?  Around here inspectors are not allowed on roofs, maybe you are firing up the old T-6 and flying him over to take thse pictures?


----------



## Pcinspector1

"Inspecting the Hood!" with your host "Mr. ICE!"


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> I want to know how Tiger  gets up there to take these pictures?



Usually by ladder.  I crawl through windows. Climb trees.  if you leave me alone, I will come down on my own.  I sense a drone in my future.


----------



## conarb

Pcinspector1 said:


> "Inspecting the Hood!" with your host "Mr. ICE!"


How about making a banner to tow around neighborhoods saying that?  Although most banner planes are PT-17s, slower.


----------



## ICE

An inspector wrote a correction to replace the cord and plug the served a furnace with a disconnect switch.  The contractor did this.  Both the inspector and contractor are wrong.  We have allowed a 20 amp rated cord and attachment plug to serve as the disconnect for a furnace.....for years.




I was there for a follow-up inspection.  I wrote a correction to restore the receptacle and cord....along with six other new corrections.  The next day there was a note on my desk to call the contractor.  The next day was too soon to call him.  He might need a week to calm down.


----------



## ICE

The job is replace the slider ... remove wood siding ... install lath and stucco.  They called for a lath inspection.  They haven't replaced the slider because.....well I'm not sure why.  They expected me to access the balcony from the step ladder.


----------



## ICE

If you click on the picture you get a video.  A solar contractor pulled a permit for a service upgrade. There is no disconnect  or over-current protection until the conductors from the meter reach a panel that is located at the end of the video.




The next picture shows a rectangle that was cut out of the side of the enclosure to accomodate a bunch of NM.


----------



## ICE

I am always curious when I see solar on a roof.


----------



## ICE

There should be a farm system similar to baseball.  That way I could send contractors back to the minors when they need more training.

This should generate a fine and suspension with a stint in training camp of at least six months.


----------



## Norcal

Too bad you could not give them a swift kick in the keester while wearing steel toed boots.   But that would bring out comments about jack booted thugs....


----------



## ICE

They fixed it.


----------



## Msradell

I guess that neatness doesn't count?


----------



## ICE

Msradell said:


> I guess that neatness doesn't count?


I asked them to remove it all and start over.


----------



## conarb

Hey Tiger, maybe you should go inspect these since these people can't afford code compliant homes,


----------



## Rick18071

The only violation I see is an extension cord across the bike path.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Near Anaheim..hun 
Why such a concentration of folks there?  I noticed there's a lot of decent looking two story buildings behind the tents, are those owners putting any pressure on the City Government or Governor Jerry Brown?


----------



## conarb

Pcinspector1 said:


> Near Anaheim..hun
> Why such a concentration of folks there?  I noticed there's a lot of decent looking two story buildings behind the tents, are those owners putting any pressure on the City Government or Governor Jerry Brown?


PC:

For years cities tried clearing them out, even finding housing for them but they keep coming back, the poor come here for the welfare benefits, but the cost of housing is so high that at this point even Google engineers are living on the streets, $125,000 a year doesn't cut it if minimum apartment rents are $3,000 a month.  With combined tax rates as high as 55% people don't end up with enough to live, let's say a $125,000 a year engineer nets probably about $90,000 after taxes, rent alone is only going to leave him about $50,000, start deducting the costs of transportation, food, etc., there is not much left.  I read an article about affordable housing being finally approved in the "Iron Triangle" district of Richmond after years of applications, hearings etc., the net cost of construction looks to be about $1,000 a square foot, I was amazed myself since the last high-quality home I built came in at $1,000 a foot, how the Hell could affordable housing cost so much?  I read that in the print edition of the paper and when I got home tried to find it in their online edition to post it here but still can't find it, BTW the Iron Triangle is a black ghetto with the constant sounds of gunshots.


----------



## conarb

Rick18071 said:


> The only violation I see is an extension cord across the bike path.



Rick:

I guess those tents would be considered single family so ADA wouldn't apply, unless the city has adopted "visitability" requirements.  But they were obviously built without permits because they can't comply with zoning regulations, I'm sure Tiger could find a lot to write up.


----------



## Rick18071

I only know you don't need any permit to put up a tent around here.


----------



## conarb

Rick18071 said:


> I only know you don't need any permit to put up a tent around here.



Maybe we should permit tents then since that's where people are living, it's now too expensive to build houses except for the wealthy, and they have archtiects, engineers, special inspectors, and qualified bonded contractors so they don't neeed inspection anyway.  



			
				Mercury News said:
			
		

> Back in September, a modest ranch house sold in Sunnyvale for $782,000 over its asking price, signaling that the Bay Area housing market was even crazier than it seemed.
> 
> That sale was extreme: The buyer paid $2,470,000 for a four-bedroom, two-bath house — less than 2,000 square feet — that had listed for $1,688,000. But the deal turns out to have been an over-the-top version of what has become the new normal in the Bay Area, where home buyers are more likely to pay over-asking prices than anywhere else in the nation, according to a report from Zillow.
> 
> The analysis shows that 68.5 percent of the homes sold last year in the San Jose metropolitan area went for over the asking price. The median amount paid over list price was $62,000, which translates as 6.8 percent above list. Those were the highest numbers in the country.¹



I read an interview with a married couple living in a camper parked on a street, they were living on the streets in order to save up the $80,000 they needed to make a downpayment on a decent home.  



¹ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/11/bay-area-housing-over-asking-bids-are-the-new-normal/


----------



## steveray

That's what they get and what they will put up with to live in beatiful Cali....


----------



## tmurray

conarb said:


> ... and they have architects, engineers, special inspectors, and qualified bonded contractors so they don't need inspection anyway.



Yours must be better than ours. Most of ours are pretty good. Just the odd thing here and there. But some of them... I'm surprised they can figure out how to put pants on every day.


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> it's now too expensive to build houses except for the wealthy, and they have archtiects, engineers, special inspectors, and qualified bonded contractors so they don't need inspection anyway.



Wealthy people are not immune to mistakes.  Just yesterday I inspected the footing for a enough space to house a dozen stallions.  The owner obviously has the wherewithal to maintain a herd of horses. Lit up he was when he found out about missing bonding jumpers for an equipotential plane.

He became angry and loud as he asked me why the people involved from the Planning Dept. to the contractors didn't tell him about that.  "Are you sure about this?"  "Why is an inspector telling me?"

Well then conarb, that project would have sailed on to completion without an inspector.  The entire structure will be made from steel.  There will be solar on the roof.  Could of been a bunch of sick horses too.  I guess he should have asked his veterinarian, trainer and jockey what they know about horse barns.  I mean, what the heck is all that money for anyway?


----------



## ICE

Here's another example from yesterday.  The owner is wealthy in the high billions.

The first inspection resulted in no inspection for the obvious reason.




The next time out, they have fixed the obvious.
Take a look at the work.







This is from the approved set of plans.




It is mislabeled as a tank anchorage.  The footing shall be 12" into undisturbed soil.  The re-bar shall be 3" away from soil.  On this page the wall is maxed out at 9'6". Another page has 10"2".  I doubt that 8" is a big deal....it's sloppy.

The footing is 12" deep from the middle of the slab on one side and 0" deep on the other side.  The re-bar is supported on the wrong bar.


----------



## conarb

But is it worth it if "the common people" are living on the streets? When we came here in the late 30s we had codes but nobody bothered with them, the "Oakies" showed up, homesteaded land and built tar paper shacks, everybody survived and had a roof over their heads, there was a time when codes were good, but now we have Green Codes, Energy Codes, and disability codes that do no good at all, all they do is prommote the New World Order agenda and make things too expensive for anyone but the wealthy. In San Francisco and even Oakland they are building high-rises, cranes all over the place, the higher up you go the more expensive the units are, meanwhile on the streets below you have to stumble over drunks and druggies.

Berkeley inspectors have to *stumble through this* to go to work in the monring.


----------



## ICE

The job is a large room addition.  The hole in the floor is a sewer cleanout.  It is inside the front entry.




The contractor stated that an inspector required the cleanout when inspecting the under-slab plumbing.    That seems like a lousy excuse.


----------



## ICE

A licensed contractor did this el. service upgrade for a solar contractor.  We won't let a solar contractor install a service upgrade because they are not qualified.  So they hire the contractor with the lowest bid.  I can't fault them for that.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> The job is a large room addition.  The hole in the floor is a sewer cleanout.  It is inside the front entry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The contractor stated that an inspector required the cleanout when inspecting the under-slab plumbing.    That seems like a lousy excuse.


Atleast they won't have any trouble finding it when they need it!


----------



## mtlogcabin

ICE said:


> The footing is 12" deep from the middle of the slab on one side and 0" deep on the other side. The re-bar is supported on the wrong bar.


The plans also indicate 4 rebar in the footing and the picture only shows 3


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:


> The plans also indicate 4 rebar in the footing and the picture only shows 3



The plans call for a #4 on each side.  The rebar in the middle is an extra on the drawing.  Looking at the rebar in the wall there is supposed to be a horizontal rebar every 32” but the drawing places rebar about 12” apart.


----------



## Phil

ICE,
On the "day tank anchorage" detail (CMU wall), do you ever inspect the keyway between the foundation and the wall? Having the keyway is more work for the contractor. With #5 @ 24" vert passing through the joint, the keyway is probably a waste of time. But, it is shown on the approved plans. Is the keyway dimensioned on a typical detail or note?


----------



## ICE

Phil said:


> ICE,
> On the "day tank anchorage" detail (CMU wall), do you ever inspect the keyway between the foundation and the wall? Having the keyway is more work for the contractor. With #5 @ 24" vert passing through the joint, the keyway is probably a waste of time. But, it is shown on the approved plans. Is the keyway dimensioned on a typical detail or note?



I asked for printed pictures of the keyway and allowed them to erect 4’ of wall before the next inspection.  The #5 rebar are spaced 16” apart.  There is no dimension for the keyway.  They will use a 2”x4” block.


----------



## ICE

I have come across this several times in the last month.




It can't be used with armor protection for the GEC.


----------



## ICE

\\








Many of the screws managed to cut all the way through the vinyl. I'm not so sure that my explanation of window flashing got through to them.


----------



## tmurray

Wow, they used a screw designed to go through cement board and were surprised when it tore that soft vinyl the shreds? Who'd have thought?


----------



## ICE




----------



## fatboy

Oh lordy.....I love that we don't have attic installations here in the front range.........


----------



## steveray

tmurray said:


> Wow, they used a screw designed to go through cement board and were surprised when it tore that soft vinyl the shreds? Who'd have thought?



Some one said screw those windows up......They did.....


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

What do you do when you encounter such a lame, stupid, dangerous condition?  Me?  Well I do what you probably wouldn't.


----------



## ICE

TI of a fast food restaurant.  There was no plan to replace any duct.




I had a duct removed from a plenum.




I gave them options.  They could obtain a permit to replace everything or I would ask the Health Dept. to have a look.  They got the permit.  I am flabbergasted that I had to influence the decision.


----------



## ICE

I was there to inspect the sheathing for a re-roof.  I went to the back yard to see another building that was not mentioned on the permit and found all of the solar array equipment.  Had I not gone to the back yard, I might not have been aware that solar was removed.  The roofers told me that the company that they work for re-installs solar quite often.  Apparently without permit or inspection.


----------



## ICE

Upon entering the bedroom you first notice the low ceiling.  It stretches for two thirds of the room and the rest is a high vaulted ceiling.




It is a floor/ceiling for a loft.




The access is through the closet.


----------



## ICE

I have said no to cloth web used to support flexible duct because it tends to fold and become narrower than the 1.5" wide as required by code.  Now a contractor has asked the office manager for a code section to back that up.  The manager has asked me to find that.  I replied that there is only the 1.5" wide code. This material fails, which the picture documents.  Actual real world evidence is not good enough to satisfy the contractor and or manager. I am now asked to research the listing (if it exists) for the cloth web and the duct in an effort to find an approval or prohibition for use of the cloth web.

My take on this is that any approval is moot because the stuff fails to perform.  I have found the failure dozens of times.  Every other time, all of the web was replaced without hesitation.  So I will give the manager another shot at the picture and tell him to make up my mind for me.


----------



## mark handler

ADC Flexible Duct Performance & Installation Standards
http://www.flexibleduct.org/ADC_Pubs.asp
The supports need to be at the manufacturer's recommended spacing, but no longer than 4' maximum. The straps that hold up the flex duct need to be no less than 1.5" wide.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> What do you do when you encounter such a lame, stupid, dangerous condition?  Me?  Well I do what you probably wouldn't.


What the heck size bar is that? It looks like it's #3 which according to ACI's data be used for structural purposes.


----------



## steveray

Require an engineer?


----------



## mtlogcabin

We always installed saddles under the strap back in the 70's we made them out of sheetmetal but now you can buy them

http://www.thermopan.com/saddles


----------



## ICE




----------



## steveray

The screws touching the back bar will bond it...it's fine......


----------



## ICE




----------



## JCraver

Did they share a purpose for that nonsense with you?  Seems like you'd wake up every morning with a homeless guy in the little foyer there.  And he'll have his own bathroom too, looks like - that hollow door sure isn't gonna' keep anybody out..


----------



## MtnArch

What was built doesn't match what was drawn (more space to strike side of door to bathroom than shown, window in different location, etc.).  Also, shouldn't the light switches and outlets in the alcove be weatherproof?  No different than being under a patio cover, right?


----------



## steveray

Wouldn't see that where it snows...


----------



## mtlogcabin

It is the bathroom that will be used by the people sleeping in their cars that pay for a parking spot


----------



## ICE

There will be a door there.


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> There will be a door there.


What code sections are you going to cite?  The only thing I see are weatherproof outlets.


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> What code sections are you going to cite?  The only thing I see are weatherproof outlets.



And a switch all mounted in a sheetrock covered wall.  ...... nobody there asked for a code section.

I gave them options.....they chose the door option.


----------



## Phil

mtlogcabin said:


> It is the bathroom that will be used by the people sleeping in their cars that pay for a parking spot


I was thinking they may have tents in the backyard listed on Airbnb https://www.airbnb.com/s/Los-Angeles--CA?listing_types[]=34


----------



## ICE

I was out on a ledge to get this picture.


----------



## ICE




----------



## steveray

What?????....It's sealed.......Maybe that is some new kind of damper to restrict the flow or a trap to catch condensate...


----------



## steveray

Is the service drop over the pool as well as the house? Whatever you do, don't head flash your windows....


----------



## ICE

It takes a contractor to come up with something this lame.


----------



## conarb

Tiger, you really don't like us do you?

I drive a Hummer as my every day car, when I built in Silicon Valley I had to do a 150 mile per day commute, mostly on I-680, Hummers have vertical windshields, CalTrans uses sweepers on 680 on almost a daily basis, the Hummer is now 14 years old and I've gone through 9 windshields, almost all from rocks thrown by those stupid sweepers, they run trucks ahead and behind the sweeping truck setting out and picking up cones as they go, this slows traffic to a crawl making it impossible for me to get over into the slow lane, I guess every time a rock hits and breaks my windshield I should take a picture, post it here, and say: "It takes a government employee to come up with something this lame."


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> Tiger, you really don't like us do you?



Am I that obvious? 
The contractor in the picture is an A license.  Apparently they dribble crap on the roadway and hate paying for windshields.  Hence a ridiculous sign.  Would it occur to them to knock the loose stuff off the truck before it leaves a site?  I bet that they did think of that and decided that it's just too much to ask for.

I have fielded complaints about busted windshields due to rocks on the road near work-sites.  The people tell me that they have approached the contractor and been told to pound sand.  That can result in an unexpected delay for inspection.


----------



## conarb

Tiger:

Explain to the troops the far left lane beyond the double yellow stripes.


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> Tiger:
> 
> Explain to the troops the far left lane beyond the double yellow stripes.



That's for carpools, electric powered cars and scofflaws. I seldom carpool and don't have an electric ride.


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


> It takes a contractor to come up with something this lame.


Sign won't protect him in court
He also appears to be missing his mud flaps on the left....


----------



## conarb

mark handler said:


> Sign won't protect him in court
> He also appears to be missing his mud flaps on the left....



I just had two windshields replaced last month, the Hummer cost $330, the Viper $586, they came out to my house and did both in about 3 hours.  If that truck caused the problem they would have  udcoubtedly refused to pay on the basis that I was on notice to stay 200 feet away and tell me that I would have to prove that I was 200 feet behind the truck, as well as prove that a rock from that truck caused the damage.  To sue for that amount I would have to go to Small Claims Court, if the owner of the truck was a corportation I would have to call the state and find out who the agent for service was (that is easily available), then I'd have to serve the agent, most agents make themselves 'unavailable', once served I would have to argue the case in Small Clams Court, it's always just less expensive to call the windshield replacement company and pay yourself. 

A woman in a new car with paper plates rear-ended me at a stop light a year ago, she fumbled around in her purse and couldn't find anything, finally she found a checkbook and tore out a deposit slip and handed it to me, I saw she lived in a nice retirement community so told her we were blocking traffic and would call her later that day, when I got home I discovered there was no phone number on the slip so I wrote her a letter including copies of my insurance and license, she wrote "Return to Sender" across the face so I made a claim on my insurance, the bill was $1,700, $1,200 was covered by my collision insurance and $500 by my uninsured motorist insurance.  I called and asked if they were going after her, I was told no they don't go after women since they are a protected class.


----------



## JCraver

Unless it's part of an unsecured load (example: a 2x4 falling out of a stack in the bed of a pickup, or a ladder falling off a ladder rack), I doubt any court would rule the owner of the truck to be at fault.  Your insurance is going to pay for the rock that cracks your windshield, not his.

Anecdote:  In another life, I (briefly) drove an over-the-road truck for a living. I was on I-20 in Georgia in the wintertime and a sheet of ice half as big as the trailer I was pulling flew off the top and smacked a lady in an SUV square in the windshield.  Hit her hard enough that it bent the A pillars.  Thankfully she didn't crash and wasn't hurt, and just pulled over.  I saw it fly off the truck in the mirror and pulled over as well.  Called the police, did a report, the whole deal.  Cop did not write me a ticket.  Her insurance paid for her SUV and nothing went on my record.


----------



## tmurray

JCraver said:


> Unless it's part of an unsecured load (example: a 2x4 falling out of a stack in the bed of a pickup, or a ladder falling off a ladder rack), I doubt any court would rule the owner of the truck to be at fault.  Your insurance is going to pay for the rock that cracks your windshield, not his.
> 
> Anecdote:  In another life, I (briefly) drove an over-the-road truck for a living. I was on I-20 in Georgia in the wintertime and a sheet of ice half as big as the trailer I was pulling flew off the top and smacked a lady in an SUV square in the windshield.  Hit her hard enough that it bent the A pillars.  Thankfully she didn't crash and wasn't hurt, and just pulled over.  I saw it fly off the truck in the mirror and pulled over as well.  Called the police, did a report, the whole deal.  Cop did not write me a ticket.  Her insurance paid for her SUV and nothing went on my record.



Local police here have been writing tickets for "unsecured load" for snow/ice buildup that flies off vehicles and strikes another. Now anytime I've heard of it, it has always been someone in an SUV/van where the owner was just too lazy to clean off the top of their vehicles. We have catwalks that commercial trucks can pull under to clean off the tops of the vehicles and trailers. Most are very good about doing it.


----------



## JCraver

How does that work?  It's not a "load" if I didn't put it on the truck.  I'm (thankfully) not aware of any laws like that here in the States. 

In my incident above, I was continuously driving:  Left Augusta, GA in an ice storm, got almost to Alabama and it was bright and shiny = ice melted and flew off.  I was supposed to know there was ice up there, and was also supposed to stop, climb 13'6" to the top of the trailer, and scrape it all off?  That seems kind of, silly.


----------



## conarb

We have a Vehicle Code law that makes us tarp our loads, when trucks go through truck stops to get weighed the Highway Patrol checks the tarps, as far as rocks leaking out of tailgates I believe that's a civil matter.


----------



## tmurray

JCraver said:


> How does that work?  It's not a "load" if I didn't put it on the truck.  I'm (thankfully) not aware of any laws like that here in the States.
> 
> In my incident above, I was continuously driving:  Left Augusta, GA in an ice storm, got almost to Alabama and it was bright and shiny = ice melted and flew off.  I was supposed to know there was ice up there, and was also supposed to stop, climb 13'6" to the top of the trailer, and scrape it all off?  That seems kind of, silly.


 I think that is likely the difference. In any situation I'm aware of, the driver looked at the 6-8 inches of snow and ice on top of their vehicle and made a conscious decision not to clean it off. The hunk of snow/ice flies off their vehicle at highway speeds and punches through the windshield of the person behind them, severely injuring the driver and any passenger in the front seat.


----------



## fatboy

Again....the litmus test is, should a reasonable person be able to discern between right or wrong.........JMHO


----------



## steveray

JCraver said:


> How does that work?  It's not a "load" if I didn't put it on the truck.  I'm (thankfully) not aware of any laws like that here in the States.



We have that law here in CT.....


----------



## jwilly3879

I recently managed to evade a huge piece of ice coming off an SUV. Fortunately the lane to my right was empty but it hit my door mirror. It was probably 2' x 3' and made a big dent in the driver door.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

This is located in an expensive neighborhood and is visible from the street.




There is this too.


----------



## ICE

There was a building where there will be a building.  They saved as much as they needed.


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


> There was a building where there will be a building.  They saved as much as they needed.


Is it still Grounded?


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


>


Major Shear wall? Nice boring....
a little fall....


----------



## ICE

mark handler said:


> Major Shear wall? Nice boring....
> a little fall....



It is all shear wall.  The general contractor met me for the inspection.  He didn't know what a shear wall is.  No fooling, ..clueless he was.  At one point he stepped on a pipe and ended up on his back.

He didn't know what was wrong with this either.


----------



## ICE

mark handler said:


> Is it still Grounded?




It is still connected to the original ground rod.




Other than tools, it was only used for powering the refrigerator.


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


> It is all shear wall.  The general contractor met me for the inspection.  He didn't know what a shear wall is.  No shlt....clueless he was.  At one point he stepped on a pipe and ended up on his back.
> 
> He didn't know what was wrong with this either.


Did he drive any nails into the pipe?


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


> It is all shear wall.  The general contractor met me for the inspection.  He didn't know what a shear wall is.  No shlt....clueless he was.  At one point he stepped on a pipe and ended up on his back.
> 
> He didn't know what was wrong with this either.


Couldn't get that pipe in the wall with the other pipe?


----------



## ICE

That's a lot of chickens.  Years ago such a structure caught fire.  It was full of roosters used for fighting.  The coop was subdivided and rented out to rooster owners.  Many dozens of the stalls were still intact and the rooster owners were allowed to claim their fighters.


----------



## ICE

mark handler said:


> Couldn't get that pipe in the wall with the other pipe?




I saw that before I went inside.  I was told that it couldn't be in the wall because of the drain pipe. I was immediately curious.


----------



## ICE

mark handler said:


> Did he drive any nails into the pipe?


  That's a good question.  It's all coming out so I'll try to find out about that.


----------



## steveray

At least they used wyes and eighth bends instead of the tees I see here from licensed plumbers.


----------



## ICE

Living on the edge.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


>


Definitely not a good climbing tree!


----------



## steveray

Saw those in Mexico....Cool stuff, I guess they grow thorns to "protect" themselves, they respond to animal contact and grow thorns in those areas to protect themselves from physical damage...If we could just get NM cable to do that...


----------



## ICE

Service entrance conductors.




The contractor became agitated and shouted that I am the only inspector that gives him a hard time.  "Hard Time" stands for corrections.

This happens every time that I inspect his work.  He was wound up enough that I stopped the inspection and hit the road.


----------



## ICE

The cord powers the furnace.




The condensate pump is powered from somewhere inside the furnace.


----------



## steveray

Bonding I assume on the SEC conduit? Failed a 400A 480V service for that Thursday..


----------



## Pcinspector1

Wow, 45,000 views, that's gotta be some kinda record, congratulations ICE!

I ran into a small water heater with a cord and plug the other day but it was allowed by code due to the small voltage. This furnace set up would be a violation with cord and plug. 

Louvered door for combustion air?


----------



## ICE

The counter was over 188,000 when Jeff changed up the forum.  It dropped to around 10,000 and since then there has been another 35,000.  It should show 220,000 .... but who's counting.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Louvered door for combustion air?



No. There is an opening in the ceiling.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> The counter was over 188,000 when Jeff changed up the forum.  It dropped to around 10,000 and since then there has been another 35,000.  It should show 220,000 .... but who's counting.



Jeff's just like Subway, doing away with the stamps after you've collected a gillion!


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Jeff's just like Subway, doing away with the stamps after you've collected a gillion!


I mentioned it to him but....


----------



## ICE

Sewer inspection.  It's the drag through the clay pipe sewer.  No contractor onsite.

This kind of sewer is expensive.  On the other bid....two guys with shovels and one guy with an electric spade.....dug, plumbed and back-filled in six hours.  No more, no less...$1,500.00




This is the hole by the street.




It was a quick and easy inspection with just one correction.  I haven't seen many of those lately.

I didn't look in the hole by the house.  Whatever's wrong falls under "not ready for inspection"  Whatever's not a word.


----------



## conarb

Interesting, our inspectors don't inspect sewers, they are inspected by the Sanitary District who pulls TV cameras through the sewer laterals and mains.


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> Interesting, our inspectors don't inspect sewers, they are inspected by the Sanitary District who pulls TV cameras through the sewer laterals and mains.


My mistake, I should have written “building sewer” which places it on private property.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE,
I do the same thing, call it a sewer line when I meant to say building sewer.


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> My mistake, I should have written “building sewer” which places it on private property.



Maybe terminology is different but here the sewers are in the streets and the connections between the waste lines in the buildings and the sewers are called "sewer laterals", or just "laterals", but still the Sanitary District inspects the laterals, especially today when they have TV equipment to look inside them, I'm sure you don't have that?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Conarb, Do they allow storm water in the sewer laterals or is that taboo in your area! 

We do not want storm water infiltration into or sanitary sewer lines here.


----------



## tmurray

I inspect utility laterals as well. Water, storm, and sewer before back-fill.


----------



## conarb

Pcinspector1 said:


> Conarb, Do they allow storm water in the sewer laterals or is that taboo in your area!
> 
> We do not want storm water infiltration into or sanitary sewer lines here.



No place that I know of other than the City of San Francisco, and they have all kinds of problems during storms as their sewers overflow, but the cost of digging up the entire city to install a secondary system is too much they say.


----------



## JCraver

tmurray said:


> I inspect utility laterals as well. Water, storm, and sewer before back-fill.



So do I.  I make more utility contractors dig stuff back up than I do homeowners.


----------



## ICE

This is how I found it.  The worker was out front in a truck waiting for me.  This was the fourth time this week that a panel was left like this and there's one more day to go.




I couldn't see the top because I'm old and crippled as you can see me there with my canes.  So I took a picture.  There isn't a hub but it looks normal enough.


Whenever there is no hub I want to see inside.




And there it is.....an intact KO.





Update:  Friday was a new day and it happened twice. Six times for one inspector in one week.  There is at least 500 inspectors in socal.  I'll be conservative and estimate that they each encountered this once in the last week.  500 chances to kill someone....every week.
It is an embarrassment of epic proportion.

The guy that left this open was in the company van.  I’m not good at hiding disdain for the guy that left this open.  Six times a week...it gets tiresome to rant with no reaction from officials or the industry.  No informed person, there are many, denies the danger.  It persists.  I can’t get away from it.  Sometimes I ignore it comepletely.  There it is....open wide and the guy that left this open and went back to sleep is right there with me and I don’t even mention it.  He just thinks I’m the meanist inspector he’s ever encountered.  Sure he’s heard stories, but now it’s him


----------



## ICE

The offset has straight threads and the hub has tapered threads.  It is obvious by the damage that it was forced.  I have done an experiment and found that water gets though readily.




Beyond that, I'm not convinced that this hub is listed for use in a wet location.  If anyone has knowledge regarding that please share.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> Beyond that, I'm not convinced that this hub is listed for use in a wet location.  If anyone has knowledge regarding that please share.


If that hub is the type I'm thinking it is it isn't approved for outdoor usage.  There is no means for sealing it to the box it is mounted on.  It's just flat on the bottom, even if you put some type of sealant between the 2 flat surfaces it probably wouldn't seal well.  They are only approved for interior usage and I believe some area study would approve them for that.


----------



## ICE

The first visit must have been rushed 'cause I missed the oval vent.




I first noticed  it while sitting in my garage looking at the photos for the day.




I was there today for corrections....one of which was replacing the refrigerant line insulation that is torn or missing.....so they had to come back again anyway and I just called the contractor to let him know ....he was nice about it


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

Wall furnace vent.  They had to move the furnace and didn't want to make another hole in the roof.


----------



## tmurray

Looks like a long run for what is likely to be a higher efficiency appliance... I would have back-drafting and combustion spillage concerns


----------



## ICE

I didn’t approve that.  It was eliminated and the vent is straight up now.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


>


----------



## Pcinspector1

Roof vent flashing jacks, don't they have an arrow pointing up on them?


----------



## my250r11

Some times the guys installing them need arrows so they know they are standing up!! LOL


----------



## Pcinspector1

Hope they know how to install these roof jacks!


----------



## ICE

I was there for a PV inspection.




I saw signs.


----------



## ICE

It's not easy to bend 3/0 wire that tight.


----------



## steveray

Is the receptacle in the side of that service normal?


----------



## mark handler

steveray said:


> Is the receptacle in the side of that service normal?


Does Not appear to be watertight, no cover, no GFCI observable.(not usable)


----------



## Pcinspector1

steveray said:


> Is the receptacle in the side of that service normal?



I have never seen that done like that, could that be a knock-out opening in that location being used for the single receptacle? Seen many a handy box attached to a panel in a basement. Seen a electrical panel dead front cutout and rigged with a duplex receptacle which was nicely done.

Agree with mark's opinion, not usable and not meeting code for lack of GFCI including wet location cover. Could it ever have been a legal install? I think no!


----------



## conarb

Tiger:

You should make it clear that these terrible electrical installations are done by Solar Contractors, not licensed electricians, California gives them huge advantages so they can use illegal labor and even gives them permit priority pushing legitimate contractors behind them even further. After all, they are "saving the planet".


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> Is the receptacle in the side of that service normal?


In my area it wouldn't be called abnormal.


----------



## north star

*& = & = &*



> *" Tiger:  You should make it clear that these terrible electrical*
> *installations are done by Solar Contractors, not licensed electricians "*


He already does, and has been for quite some time.
*& = & = &*


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> I have never seen that done like that, could that be a knock-out opening in that location being used for the single receptacle? Seen many a handy box attached to a panel in a basement. Seen a electrical panel dead front cutout and rigged with a duplex receptacle which was nicely done.
> 
> Agree with mark's opinion, not usable and not meeting code for lack of GFCI including wet location cover. Could it ever have been a legal install? I think no!


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


>


is that a nail holding the grounding wires?


----------



## ICE

A permit and a few inspections would have been a good idea. All of that re-bar standing up is one way to ruin your day.


----------



## ICE

mark handler said:


> is that a nail holding the grounding wires?


Nope, it's a mounting screw.  I pretty much condemned it all.

Solar companies will attempt to energize darn near anything and then play dumb when I say no.


----------



## mark handler

thanks Ice


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> Nope, it's a mounting screw.  I pretty much condemned it all.
> 
> Solar companies will attempt to energize darn near anything and then play dumb when I say no.



Thanks for that Tiger, you're a good man.  I see this as a license board problem, they never should have allowed solar contractors to do electrical work, I saw a neighbor recently putting larger breakers into his panel, I asked why?  He said that ever since the solar panels went on the mains kept blowing so he needed larger breakers, I guess that makes sense, there is a street between us so It shouldn't affect me, other than a lot of soot on my house and yard.


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> I saw a neighbor recently putting larger breakers into his panel, I asked why?  He said that ever since the solar panels went on the mains kept blowing so he needed larger breakers


Increasing the amperage rating of the mains may be a violation. Did the neighbor increase the load? Was it done by a real electrician?   We require a permit for that.....and for good reason.


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> Increasing the amperage rating of the mains may be a violation. Did the neighbor increase the load? Was it done by a real electrician?   We require a permit for that.....and for good reason.


I don't think he even knows, a subcontractor of Solar City did it, the fuses started going so he was installing bigger breakers himself.


----------



## ICE

The average home owner isn’t capable of changing main breakers.  Apparently your neighbor knows a thing or two about electrical work.  Here’s hoping he doesn’t burn down the house.


----------



## steveray

mark handler said:


> is that a nail holding the grounding wires?



I think a roofing nail is listed for 2 #12 conductors......


----------



## Paul Sweet

Are some of those walls in #2661 running at a diagonal, or are they just way out of level?


----------



## ICE

I too wondered about that.  Walls 6, 7 and 8 are different than the first five.  I took the picture from my ride and didn’t get a side view.  I tried to return and drop a violation notice but it’s a gated community and now my gate code has ceased to function. Oh well, there are other jobs going on in the neighborhood and I’ll get in soon or later.  By the look of it, too late may have come and gone.


----------



## Msradell

Paul Sweet said:


> Are some of those walls in #2661 running at a diagonal, or are they just way out of level?


I thought the same thing when I 1st looked at it but looking at it again it looks like the same amount of the block in the layer above shows for each layer. Maybe it's because of shadows or dampness in the blocks?


----------



## ICE

I've not seen this type of wall before.  It looks like interlocking blocks of concrete.  Shirley there must be more to the


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> I've not seen this type of wall before.  It looks like interlocking blocks of concrete.  Shirley there must be more to the story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tall and vertical.


We have those all over the place around here in Kentucky. Almost any retaining wall associated with a Interstate has that type of wall. I have yet to see 1 of them bulging or leaning at all so they must be very stable.

Here's a website talking about their use: http://www.trulinecivil.com/projects/?product_id=30


----------



## ICE

The office called and asked me to swing by this house and drop a stop work due to no permit.  They're gonna need a lot more than a permit.


----------



## ICE

The job is an addition of a dwelling unit.  It will be attached to the existing dwelling.  An inspector wrote a correction to install a "construction fence", provide a portable toilet, and implement BMPs per the Health and Safety Code.  BMPs are best management practices.  That includes sandbags.  Well they almost did all of that.





All of the construction is at the right of the dwelling and the fence stops at each side of the driveway.  Obviously they have not been given those corrections before now.  I'm not convinced that they should have gotten the corrections this time.  But hey now, the inspector that wrote the correction has way more experience that myself.



I like the toilet...around 10:30 the third cup of coffee is looking for a new home.  Then I can get down to the business of inspecting. I noticed the crooked form work from my truck but I stopped for the toilet.  So the garage wall will be straight because they had a blue room.


----------



## ICE

I can now say I have seen every possible mistake on a service upgrade.


----------



## Norcal

That is scary! Considering the fact there is no overcurrent protection on the SE conductors it's a recipe for disaster, & most panels are be used for either OH & UG service.

The panel is now in my opinion scrap metal there is no proper repair, only replacement since turning it to the proper orientation still won't fix it because of the hack shown in the photo.


----------



## mark handler

Is the panel upside down or is it the picture?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Mark, panel is upside down, green wire at the top right exiting upside down panel.

SE, jacket has been abused.

Also look there's the torque settings listed in the back of the panel.

I think moisture can enter through the top at the knock-out.


----------



## mark handler

Pcinspector1 said:


> Mark, panel is upside down, green wire at the top right exiting upside down panel.
> 
> SE, jacket has been abused.
> 
> Also look there's the torque settings listed in the back of the panel.
> 
> I think moisture can enter through the top at the knock-out.


*I saw the damage*, i did not know if picture was flipped or if panel is upside down.


----------



## Norcal

The panel is upside down, the rain shields have been rendered useless making the NEMA  type 3R panel into a handy hacked NEMA type 1 enclosure installed outdoors.


----------



## ICE

The contractor used 3X6 plate for the exterior.  He ripped 3x6 down to 3x4 for the interior walls.  I am not concerned with the grade of the lumber being altered.

The lumber has been pressure treated.  The best I ever see when it comes to penetration of the preservative is 1/4”.  That is why the code requires that cut ends of PT be painted with preservative.

In this case you can see that the preservative appears to be superficial and the cut edge has no treatment at all.  This occurs at interior walls only.  Painting the bare wood with preservative is not an option due to the long term odor.  Trust me on that.  So indoors and not subject to water…..what do you think.
As a side note, the lack of any apparent penetration of preservative causes me to wonder if this sampling is suspect.


----------



## conarb

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that pressure treated wood is worthless, every variant, and there have been several, has had it's problems, I refuse to use it and use clear heart redwood, foundation grade is no-longer milled and it's a shame to use beautiful clear heart redwood when nobody will ever see it.  You are right, just painting perservative on the ends or sides is useless, water sill seep in and rot it out.


----------



## steveray

I do remember your Cuprinol or whatever it was story...Field treatment just made it into our code last year....Can they slip plastic under it?

3. Sills and sleepers on a concrete or masonry slab that is
in direct contact with the ground unless separated from
such slab by an impervious moisture barrier.


----------



## my250r11

If is an interior plate does not need to be treated, IMO


----------



## ICE

my250r11 said:


> If is an interior plate does not need to be treated, IMO


Code would allow untreated lumber if there is an impervious moisture barrier between the slab and wood.  In this case there is a treated side against the concrete and I have concluded that code does not require the other sides to be treated as would be the case if a moisture barrier was installed.  R317.1(3)

Besides that, termites gotta eat too.


----------



## ICE

R317.3.1 Exception (3)

Here we are told that fasteners used with zinc borate and sbx/dot preservatives need not be corrosion resistant if the location is dry interior.  So is a mud sill a dry interior location?  Theroreticly there should not be water present and the location is behind cladding of some sort.


----------



## ICE

The job is an electrical service upgrade and this is the service entrance conduit.  Sun glare prevented me from seeing clearly.  It appears as though there is no roof jack.  So I wrote a correction to install a roof jack.  Shirley seeing clearly in a picture makes a difference.
So now the correction will change to “install the roof jack correctly”.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE, What is that roof product? 

Does not look like the seams line up. Are you using some kinda special camera lens to enhance your photo's?


----------



## ICE

The roofing is concrete tile.  Nothing special about the camera.


----------



## conarb

Pcinspector1 said:


> ICE, What is that roof product?
> 
> Does not look like the seams line up. Are you using some kinda special camera lens to enhance your photo's?


Concrete tile is now our most common roof covering here because of fire protection, tile joints must be staggered.


----------



## Pcinspector1

conarb, What's the guesstimated weight per SF on that product in the photo? 

Meant to say the seams are crooked, I'm aware you would not want the seams lined up.


----------



## mark handler

Pcinspector1 said:


> What's the guesstimated weight per SF on that product in the photo?
> Meant to say the seams are crooked, I'm aware you would not want the seams lined up.


Std concrete roof tiles generally weigh between 9 1/2 to 12 pounds per square foot —
Flat Lightweight roof tiles generally weigh 7.2 lbs pounds per square foot — 720 lbs/Sq.


----------



## Pcinspector1

That's some weight to account for. Architectural shingles are in the 150-250-lb range per sq.


----------



## conarb

Everything here has to be engineered, after the Oakland Hills Fire cities started outlawing wood roofs, what you call "architectural shingles" we call tarpaper roofs, tile roof manufacturers came out with lightweight tile to work on most roofs, but lightweight trusses aren't engineered in most instances to carry even lightweight tile, another problem with lightweight tile is that the average person, including plumbers and other tradesmsn, can't walk on them without breaking them, you have to call a roofer experienced on where to step on a tile roof.


----------



## ICE

mark handler said:


> Std concrete roof tiles generally weigh between 9 1/2 to 12 pounds per square foot —
> Flat Lightweight roof tiles generally weigh 7.2 lbs pounds per square foot — 720 lbs/Sq.



I think that we stop at 5.7 lbs. for a light weight classification.


----------



## north star

*$ ~ $ ~ $*


> *"3. Sills and sleepers on a concrete or masonry slab that is*
> *in direct contact with the ground unless separated* from
> such slab by an impervious moisture barrier."


Isn't the whole concrete slab separated from the ground with a plastic 6 mil barrier ?
Also, even if an approved type of plastic barrier were to be used, an inspection
would need to performed to visually verify that the plastic barrier was in good
condition before being concealed under the various plates.

*ICE*, ...do you want to visually inspect every piece of plastic or other type of
approved barrier before it is concealed under the sole plates, on every project ? 

*$ ~ $ ~ $*


----------



## ICE

north star said:


> *$ ~ $ ~ $*
> Isn't the whole concrete slab separated from the ground with a plastic 6 mil barrier ?
> Also, even if an approved type of plastic barrier were to be used, an inspection
> would need to performed to visually verify that the plastic barrier was in good
> condition before being concealed under the various plates.
> 
> *ICE*, ...do you want to visually inspect every piece of plastic or other type of
> approved barrier before it is concealed under the sole plates, on every project ?
> 
> *$ ~ $ ~ $*


The visqueen under the slab doesn’t count for this code section.  Nobody has ever tried the impervious barrier between the slab and bottom plate as an alternative to PT lumber ..... I doubt that anyone ever will.


----------



## ICE

Post #2687 has unanswered questions.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> R317.3.1 Exception (3)
> 
> Here we are told that fasteners used with zinc borate and sbx/dot preservatives need not be corrosion resistant if the location is dry interior.  So is a mud sill a dry interior location?  Theroreticly there should not be water present and the location is behind cladding of some sort.


I've always considered a Mud Sill a wet location, probably better definition would be "damp". Not really sure why except I guess the word mud kind of leads you to think it could get wet at one time or another.


----------



## ICE

The wrong nails are used nearly every time.
_R317.3.1 Fasteners for preservative-treated wood. Fasteners, including nuts and washers, for preservative- treated wood shall be of *hot-dipped*, zinc-coated galvanized steel, stainless steel, silicon bronze or copper. Coating types and weights for connectors in contact with preservative-treated wood shall be in accordance with the connector manufacturer’s recommendations. In the absence of manufacturer’s recommendations, a minimum of ASTM A653 type G185 zinc-coated galvanized steel, or equivalent, shall be used. _


When I wrote the correction I suggested that he add a staggered row of nails that is higher than the original nails.  That would have worked because this is the job with the 3x plate.
He chose to remove the wrong nails and add nails.


----------



## ICE

It's a three bedroom house with thirteen alarms.  (three were existing but in the wrong location)


----------



## ICE

This is a site built temporary power pole.  The electrician might be the wrong guy for a new 12,000 square foot house.









This electrician is well grounded.


----------



## ICE

I came around the corner to find this.  Now I'm not a combat veteran but it seems to me that not everybody in this picture has had situational awareness training.


----------



## ICE




----------



## conarb

Tiger, it looks like they caught someone parked in a handicap space.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> It's a three bedroom house with thirteen alarms.  (three were existing but in the wrong location)


 ICE, what's the problem, they're "Worry-Free" alarms! Quit your worrying!


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> I came around the corner to find this.  Now I'm not a combat veteran but it seems to me that not everybody in this picture has had situational awareness training.


 You've got a badge, don't you? Where's their cowboy hats at?


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> The visqueen under the slab doesn’t count for this code section. Nobody has ever tried the impervious barrier between the slab and bottom plate as an alternative to PT lumber ..... I doubt that anyone ever will.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> The visqueen under the slab doesn’t count for this code section. Nobody has ever tried the impervious barrier between the slab and bottom plate as an alternative to PT lumber ..... I doubt that anyone ever will.



WE did. The construction company I work for once used foam sill sealer that had a barrier layer under an SPF bottom plate in a basement finish and it worked just fine until the building inspector came along an said he wouldn't approve it. We responded "read the Code!" Instead of arguing with the BO we removed it, we still had 20 or so lots to build on. We could have appealed his decision but chose not too.  

In a basement here the floor will raise up and down a bit (expansive clay soils) we always held the top plate down a fraction for the heave.


----------



## ICE

I can now say I have seen every possible mistake on a service upgrade.





With some people life will be a struggle no matter what they do.  The next picture is the aftermath of my initial inspection.  It was an owner builder permit.  I asked the owner to hire a real electrical contractor ..... have that contractor obtain a permit.....and get the job done right.  Well he did the first part but the contractor didn't show up for the inspection and now the lath and plaster has to be removed.

Twice now I have been tempted to open it up.  Twice now I have fought that temptation.  I don't think that I can hold out a third time.


----------



## ICE

After working with the same solar contractor for several years I have been able to educate a few employees on what to look for.  I didn't tell them about this...... because......... who woulda thought.


----------



## ICE

He did say that he would hold the ladder.


----------



## steveray

Did you tell him you were brave, not stupid...?


----------



## ICE

The inspection is for an aluminum patio cover.  The outlet is for an existing (50 years) porch light.  The plan was to have ceiling fans and lights under the new patio cover and that power would come from the outlet via emt.


----------



## ICE

Directly across the street.


----------



## steveray

That's fantcy!


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> Directly across the street.


 ICE, You've got TWINS, name them Danny and Arnold


----------



## ICE

ICE said:


> With some people life will be a struggle no matter what they do.  The next picture is the aftermath of my initial inspection.  It was an owner builder permit.  I asked the owner to hire a real electrical contractor ..... have that contractor obtain a permit.....and get the job done right.  Well he did the first part but the contractor didn't show up for the inspection and now the lath and plaster has to be removed.
> 
> Twice now I have been tempted to open it up.  Twice now I have fought that temptation.  I don't think that I can hold out a third time.



This time the contractor was there to meet me.  He used a 5# sledgehammer to open the wall.  The wall deflected an alarming distance.




He is a polite Asian fellow.  Communication is not splendid.  Smiles a lot and bows his head.  It would have been easier to be nice to him if he didn't perform sloppy work.





I could tell by the look on his face that he knew the box must be grounded.  I'm pretty sure that he could tell what I was thinking too.


----------



## ICE

Licensed contractor. Service upgrade and re-wire a dwelling.  The first inspection garnered 12 corrections.  One of which was that the new service enclosure was surface mounted over a hole in the stucco wall.  The previous service was recessed in the wall and now it is an empty box with the new service over it.

The hole in the sheathing is there for the service riser that is gone because the panel is now recessed in the wall where it should have been in the first place.  I inspected that work two weeks ago and wrote a correction to install a structural strap across the over-bored wall top plates.  A week later at another inspection they had installed unistrut to studs.  So I drew a picture of a strap over top plates and they did this.  The correction stated "Install ST62 strap across over-bored top plates with 10 #10 1.5" long on each side of the damage". "Seal top plate penetrations with approved fireblock material".

This is am MST48" and they sealed the nails but not the top plate penetrations.




The drawing that I made for them should have have a note that says "not to scale".  32 nails on each side of the conduit is probably enough.


----------



## ICE

The job is a pex re-pipe.  The plumber exposed the splices that have been there for forty+ years.


----------



## ICE

The plan calls for a two pour system with #4 dowels.  The dotted line is the cold joint between the footing and the slab.  We refer to it as a "shovel off".  Dowels are usually bent 90°.  Dowels must be tied in place.




Ok so there's no dowels.  The first question is how would the concrete be piled 22" above the grade beam  not to mention the lack of rebar at the top of the footing.








The form board sits on the #3 ties.  The Strong Wall may not be all that strong.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> The plan calls for a two pour system with #4 dowels.  The dotted line is the cold joint between the footing and the slab.  We refer to it as a "shovel off".  Dowels are usually bent 90°.  Dowels must be tied in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so there's no dowels.  The first question is how would the concrete be piled 22" above the grade beam  not to mention the lack of rebar at the top of the footing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The form board sits on the #3 ties.  The Strong Wall may not be all that strong.


That drawing is very confusing.  To me it looks like what they are calling #4 Dwls @ 16" look like rebar in the slab.  The bar at an angle that I call out to be 12" minimum looks very strange and as you said it doesn't look like there's any way to tie it in.
Around here I've never seen a cold joint place like that either, they are normally flat across at the top of the grade beam.  Were you seeing a need to have concrete 22" above the grade beam?  It looks like it's just 8" to the sill plates.


----------



## ICE

The way it is set up there would be a 22” space between the grade beam and the top of the slab.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> The plan calls for a two pour system with #4 dowels.  The dotted line is the cold joint between the footing and the slab.  We refer to it as a "shovel off".  Dowels are usually bent 90°.  Dowels must be tied in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so there's no dowels.  The first question is how would the concrete be piled 22" above the grade beam  not to mention the lack of rebar at the top of the footing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The form board sits on the #3 ties.  The Strong Wall may not be all that strong.


 Odd design...So is there rebar exiting the first pour through the "cold joint" into the second pour-slab? Looks like there's a horizontal bar, would that be tie to the slab mat before the slab pouring? 

Wheres conarb?...conarb stat!


----------



## ICE

I usually don't pay attention to roof work unless I am there for a reason.  Passing by is not a reason.





This is two doors away from an inspection that turned into a non-inspection.  That contractor started with a re-roof permit for the house but not the garage.  I left a correction that asked him to obtain the permit for the garage.  I also noted that there is a shiny new furnace vent poking out the roof so perhaps he needs a mechanical permit ...and just for the sake of wasting ink I included,"And anything else that has been done without a required permit".  The house was vacant and locked.  There was plywood covering the windows and locked gates kept me in the front yard.

Another inspector followed up when the contractor requested a final inspection of the roof.  That inspector was able to get into the house.  He wrote a correction to obtain permit for a kitchen remodel.

My second visit was today.  I was there for another attempt at a final inspection.  Sure enough, there's a new kitchen....along with the rest of the house.

I wrote correction to obtain permits for two bathrooms remodeled, all windows replaced, all new lights, receptacles and switches.  I am pretty sure that the building was re-wired but I haven't been in the attic.
Can lights must have been on sale.


Back to that bootleg roof:
Ya roofing is better left alone....but sometimes I go off the deep end and stick my nose,  well you know what I mean.......don't you.


----------



## conarb

Pcinspector1 said:


> Odd design...So is there rebar exiting the first pour through the "cold joint" into the second pour-slab? Looks like there's a horizontal bar, would that be tie to the slab mat before the slab pouring?
> 
> Wheres conarb?...conarb stat!


 I see what they are trying to do, they are trying to build a standard foundation like a monolithic pour without pouring the slab at the same time, I've thought about it and don't see anything wrong with it, the 22" gap between the top of the cage and the top of the pour is highly unusual, but again I don't see anything wrong with it, I guess Tiger can request a structural observation from the DPoR since it's at variance with the plans, maybe he would request vertical dowels, or maybe he would sign it off.


----------



## steveray

I didn't think the wire nuts had the "wings" 40 yrs ago.....?



ICE said:


> The job is a pex re-pipe.  The plumber exposed the splices that have been there for forty+ years.


----------



## TheCommish

keen observation ICE, flowing  on, it think 40 years all wire nuts came in any color of black you wanted


----------



## ICE

Well I don't know about wings and color from forty years ago.   I do see small wire spliced with big wire so as you guys are suggesting, there is more to the story.


----------



## ICE

The next two service upgrades were done by licensed contractors.  They give as good as they get.  Apparently they didn't get enough to do good.

This enclosure is held to the wall with one screw.  The guy said,"Well it went all the way through the stucco".




You can see the cable going out the rear.  He didn't attempt to disguise the hole in the wall.....or a patch of any sort.




The next panel has a bigger hole so he tried to mitigate that.




You can see the cable at the bottom.  The hole is all the way to the top.




Now that was a big hole....it looks like part of the previous service cabinet is still there.

This outcome is typical.   Once upon a time it was a clean well-kept neighborhood that deserves better.


----------



## steveray

Almost everyone deserves better these days.....Except those that deserve worse...


----------



## ICE

I inspected the under-slab plumbing.




I guess I wasn't paying attention at that time.

This is the detail called out on the plans.




Pull back the flashing and what do you find?


----------



## TheCommish

ICE, if a metal plate was placed over the old service panel hole before the new  surface mountepanelle was installed woud that be allowed?


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

Granted there won't be a lot of water getting in....but still......


----------



## ICE

TheCommish said:


> ICE, if a metal plate was placed over the old service panel hole before the new  surface mountepanelle was installed woud that be allowed?


If the arrangement kept water out of the wall and there were no splices behind that plate and no holes in the back of the panel enclosure....well then.....probably not.


----------



## tmurray

ICE said:


>



Cellulose?


----------



## ICE

Yes it is insulation.

I found this on a roof today.  Darned cat.


----------



## ICE

As I was leaving the contractor asked for my name....twice....looking at me sideways he was. I wondered if he can read.


----------



## ICE

At least one of the people involved had clean fingers.  Lead flashing won't do that.  Lead flashing probably causes environmental damage.  How about copper....can you get it in copper.....for under $300.


----------



## ICE

These are dryer vents.  One for each condo located on each side of the wall.  The ducts enter the slab floor.  The nearest exterior wall is 20 ft. away....I didn't find a termination there or anywhere else.  The contractor couldn't find it either.




The wall between the laundry rooms is being rebuilt due to fire damage.  The electric dryer in unit A burst into flames.
This is the inside of the dryer vent.



One of the garages is full of insulation.  The second story  attic suffered smoke damage.  There's no fireblocking or draftstops.


----------



## north star

*$ ~ $*

The "copper colored" metal flashings around the vertical vent
pipes isn't copper at all......True copper would have oxidized
by now.........That appears to be some type of manufactured,
colored flashing to match tile roofing.

*$ ~ $*


----------



## ICE

north star said:


> *$ ~ $*
> 
> The "copper colored" metal flashings around the vertical vent
> pipes isn't copper at all......True copper would have oxidized
> by now.........That appears to be some type of manufactured,
> colored flashing to match tile roofing.
> 
> *$ ~ $*


The flashing is galvanized steel painted to match.  The tile looks newer than the flashing.


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> At least one of the people involved had clean fingers.  Lead flashing won't do that.  Lead flashing probably causes environmental damage.  How about copper....can you get it in copper.....for under $300.



That's just sprayed GSM, I still use lead flashings, they allow it because kids have to eat or breathe it to do any damage, interestingly some cities, like Palo Alto, are banning copper flashing becuase water runs off it and kills the fish, I don't understand why it kills the fish when we drink water through copper pipes and it doesn't kill us.


----------



## ICE

ICE said:


> This time the contractor was there to meet me.  He used a 5# sledgehammer to open the wall.  The wall deflected an alarming distance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is a polite Asian fellow.  Communication is not splendid.  Smiles a lot and bows his head.  It would have been easier to be nice to him if he didn't perform sloppy work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could tell by the look on his face that he knew the box must be grounded.  I'm pretty sure that he could tell what I was thinking too.




Six inspections got it to this:


----------



## ICE

The job is a trench-less sewer installation.  I was, what they figured, early.  The contractor wasn't there and the owner repeatedly said that I was early.  The job requires a camera run after the pipe is filled and then water released so that I can make sure that it drains properly.  Well the contractor had no clue about that and it takes a while to set that up.  Considering that there is no test wye at the low end or clean-out at the upper end, it's going to be hours before they are ready.

The owner wanted me to wait for the contractor because I was early.  Okay I was early by about an hour.  It was !!:00 am and my route slip had it as a PM stop....but I was stood up three times in the morning soooo, ready or not.....I'm here.

The contractor called the office to pitch a bitch because I was early.  In the future my route slips will not have AM, AM/PM, or PM time blocks.

The excavation is 7 feet deep and next to a public sidewalk......


----------



## ICE

That was Tuesday.  A supervisor called the contractor and informed him of the danger.  It is now Friday and another inspection was requested.  The hole has 4'x4' plywood and two traffic cones for a cover.  Before I left I asked the workman to place dirt on the plywood to make it difficult for a child to lift it off and fall in the hole.  He did this.




The kid that met me had a camera snake and a bad attitude.  It got worse when I told him that the pipe has to be filled with water.  Since there is no way to plug the pipe and fill it with water I couldn't perform an inspection.  There is no video of the sewer pipe before the work was done because, "The owner didn't ask for one".

Today's corrections included "Provide shoring".

Like every government agency, Cal/OSHA has no interest in a hole.......unless it is 7’ deep and has no shoring.
I got the feeling that OSHA might sit on the job next Monday.....waiting for a kid to drop into the hole.

I gave this company an opportunity to do the right thing. Well I'll see if they continue to ignore me.

The job I do no longer has any respect.
Here's why:
Yesterday I met a twenty something cartoon character of a workman on a solar job.  It took several tries and a diagram to explain how to install a smoke alarm.  The guy was covered in tats including his neck.  He had half-dollar size hoops cut into his earlobes.  His tank-top said Italian thug.  His pants stopped a foot above his thongs and six inches short of covering his shorts.

All excited he was...waiting to greet me with a smile from ruined ear to ruined ear.  He told me that this was his last day working for a solar company.  I asked him where he was headed and he said that he was going to be me at San Bernardino County.  That's right....he has been hired as a building inspector.

It's quickly getting to the point where I won't respect me either.


----------



## ICE

I went from that job to this.  No impalement caps.  The plans state that the slope is a 3 to 1 and they didn't mention the tree.


----------



## conarb

Tiger;

Where do you derive the authority to inspect a sewer?  In my neck of the woods the sanitary districts always inspect the sewers with thier own  cameras.  Since you think you have the right to inspect them, what authority do you have to make the contractor/subcontractor supply and operate the equipment?  

Where do you get the authority to enforce CalOSHA requirements?  As far as I can see your only authority is to drop a dime and ceases there. 

As to the tree didn't your jurisdiction require a survey?  If so the tree would have been on the plans.


----------



## ICE

conarb I have answered those questions plenty of times. What authority I lack, I usurp.

The only new question is the one about a survey.  So that’s what it’s called.  We got a site plan that didn’t show any trees.


----------



## conarb

So you are still usurping authority no matter what I say.  Most AHJs that I deal with require surveys as part of the approved plans if there are going to be any new structures, or additions to existing structures, then I hold the tape from property lines to the structures for the field inspector to ensure setback compliance.


----------



## ICE

Seldom is there a survey.  Considering the expense there must be a compelling reason to cause someone to spend thousands of dollars for a survey.  If I have unanswered questions about property lines it's likely that the owner will move the structure a few feet and convince me that setbacks are met.  In an urban area such as where I work, figuring out where property lines are located is usually not a problem.  

The tree should have been addressed by the engineer that designed the retaining wall.  The contractor didn't give the engineer the correct information but inspectors know the difference between a 3 to 1slope and what you see in the picture.  Had the slope been 3 to 1 the tree wouldn't be an issue as it would not surcharge the retaining wall.  Inspectors know about that too.

It is not uncommon that the slope behind a wall is misrepresented on the plans.  Trees and buildings are missing now and then.  However it is smarter to catch that when the inspector gets there than to require everybody to pay for a survey.


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> Seldom is there a survey.  Considering the expense there must be a compelling reason to cause someone to spend thousands of dollars for a survey.  If I have unanswered questions about property lines it's likely that the owner will move the structure a few feet and convince me that setbacks are met.  In an urban area such as where I work, figuring out where property lines are located is usually not a problem.



There sure is a difference between The Bay Area and Southern California, I've been getting surveys on everything I do as far back as I can remember, since surveyors usually stake the corners only I have to run stringlines from the curb-cut to the rear corner stake so we can hold a tape on the string and show the inspector that our setbacks are correct.

  Another issue is drainage plans, I was planning to put an addition on my own house, got a survey and found the sideline was 5' off drom the curb-cut,  the surveryor reasearched it and found a mistake had been made years ago and everyone kept following it, then the city civil engineer demanded a drainage plan, of course the survey was the basis of the drainage plan that was overlayed.  The cost of the drainage that my civil engineer designed was as much as the addition and I cancelled plans to do it.  One of the reasons an engineered drainage plan is required is required is they no-longer want water falling on the property to go to the city storm drainage system, now they want the property to absorb as much as possible and charge a fee for all hard surface, in my case above I was building a second garage with a long driveway so would have had to pay a several thousand dollar hard surface fee, it's something like 50¢ a square foot here, in some areas like, Napa county, so they don't allow driveways or sidewalks at all, they make you do them in rock or sand so water can go directly into the water table.


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> There sure is a difference between The Bay Area and Southern California, I've been getting surveys on everything I do as far back as I can remember, since surveyors usually stake the corners only I have to run stringlines from the curb-cut to the rear corner stake so we can hold a tape on the string and show the inspector that our setbacks are correct.
> 
> Another issue is drainage plans, I was planning to put an addition on my own house, got a survey and found the sideline was 5' off drom the curb-cut,  the surveryor reasearched it and found a mistake had been made years ago and everyone kept following it, then the city civil engineer demanded a drainage plan, of course the survey was the basis of the drainage plan that was overlayed.  The cost of the drainage that my civil engineer designed was as much as the addition and I cancelled plans to do it.



99% of what goes on in my area is nowhere near the value of what you have done.  The doors on your projects cost more than the projects I see.  Sometimes that's just the front door.
Million dollar room additions can absorb $5000 surveys.  It sticks out like a sore thumb on a $40,000 master bed and bath built on the rear of a $400,000 house.

You know conarb, it has been many times that you complain about me overstepping my authority.  You are right, about that, but not right to criticize.  I am always in possession of my faculties.  I see a danger and react as any competent adult should.  The conditions here are rife with perils that will devastate and destroy people after a small misstep.  Those people are mostly young Hispanics that hardly understand English.  They do understand that $50 a day is a lot more than $5.  So they follow orders.  Orders from a hefe whom cares not a wit about them.  I step in the middle of that several times a month.  

I suppose my thirty years in construction hardened my heart towards contractors that risk the health and well-being of the workmen.  Beyond that, the public deserve to be protected as well.  If a kid fell in that hole I would feel bad.  I recognize that as a threat to me....not just the public.  How awful would I feel if I say nothing and it happens.  I saw it....I knew it....I let it happen....then it is my fault.


----------



## Mark K

It is always proper to criticize a building inspector that oversteps his authority.

Yes there are problems but neither the building official or the inspector has the authority to impose his personal solution.  Their job is to fairly enforce the adopted regulations.

When a building inspector acts illegally he no longer has legal immunity for his actions.


----------



## ICE

Mark K said:


> It is always proper to criticize a building inspector that oversteps his authority.
> 
> Yes there are problems but neither the building official or the inspector has the authority to impose his personal solution.  Their job is to fairly enforce the adopted regulations.
> 
> When a building inspector acts illegally he no longer has legal immunity for his actions.



It’s a problem that’s bigger than just an inspector. It’s an assault on the rule of law.  Every time I do it the moral fabric of the universe is torn just a little bit.  If I keep it up long enough contractors will fall through the holes into a netherworld of screaming housewives demanding change orders for free.

Your usual refrain that I lose immunity if I act illegally has no meaning here.  I called CalOSHA.  Anybody can call CalOSHA.  Furthermore, I can come up with just about anything and still enjoy immunity unless it is proven that I came up with that anything with malice aforethought.  In other words I can be as dumb as a stump and require outlandish measures that have no basis in code because ....well it's not illegal to be stupid.  Add mean to stupid and there could be cause for concern.

And by the way, knowing the facts as presented yet calling for a stand-down by the inspector is mean.


----------



## conarb

Tiger said:
			
		

> You know conarb, it has been many times that you complain about me overstepping my authority. You are right, about that, but not right to criticize. I am always in possession of my faculties. I see a danger and react as any competent adult should. The conditions here are rife with perils that will devastate and destroy people after a small misstep. Those people are mostly young Hispanics that hardly understand English. They do understand that $50 a day is a lot more than $5. So they follow orders. Orders from a hefe whom cares not a wit about them. I step in the middle of that several times a month.



Then why aren't you turning them in?


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> Then why aren't you turning them in?


Turning them in has little effect.  CalOSHA responds by sending the contractor a letter.  When I contacted CalOSHA this time I was asked, “Does the contractor have an OSHA excavation permit”? I’ve never seen an excavation permit....and never will.

This'll probably cause a ruckus.  I might get chewed out.  I’ve been chewed out before.


----------



## Mark K

So the answer is to impose illegal authoritarian rule by a building inspector.  This is in conflict with our Constitution and our ideas of democracy.

Do you have the integrity to let your supervisors know that you are exceeding your authority and that you intend to continue to exceed your authority?


----------



## ICE

Mark K said:


> So the answer is to impose illegal authoritarian rule by a building inspector.  This is in conflict with our Constitution and our ideas of democracy.
> 
> Do you have the integrity to let your supervisors know that you are exceeding your authority and that you intend to continue to exceed your authority?


What illegal authoritarian rule are you referring to?  Is it conarb's misunderstanding of sewer pipe on private land being the responsibility of the building dept?  Is it me calling CalOSHA?  What exactly is it that has you convinced I'm a scofflaw in conflict with the constitution, a threat to democracy?

You wonder about my integrity on one hand and expect me to surrender it on the other.  Supervisors know what I am about.  Some bemoan while some champion.  I can't please them all so I try to do what I consider to be the right thing.  Hammering dangerous contractors is the right thing to do.  Turning away is unconscionable.

There will never come a day when tragedy visits a job that I am inspecting that I will feel guilty about that if I saw it coming.  And that's because I will have done the right thing.  I may not have prevented it but I tried.  There has been dozens of situations that I changed up.  Some make one wonder how anybody could be so reckless.  Yet there it was in front of me.  I didn't stop to consider if I had the authority to order them out of the tunnel or off the roof.  I just did it.  Several of the outrageous examples resulted in me being on the hot seat; having to explain, with wide eyed wonderment, to people like you, why I did what had to be done.


----------



## north star

*$ ~ $ ~ $ ~ $*

So, ...who is the dude is your latest Avatar ? 

*$ ~ $ ~ $ ~ $*


----------



## ICE

That was me.  This is not.


----------



## steveray

Maybe Tiger is requiring these things to feel safe inspecting this subpar work...Thereby within his full authority and obligation.....?


----------



## mtlogcabin

I am with Ice on most of what he said. We will advise contractors of potential hazards, take photos and make it part of the inspections record and let them know we have done this. While doing this we repeatedly tell them this is not a building code issue and we have no authority to make them do anything but if someone does get hurt we will be able to provide documentation to the injured party which will aid them in seeking damages in their lawsuit.   Usually gets them to take care of the issue


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> What illegal authoritarian rule are you referring to?  Is it conarb's misunderstanding of sewer pipe on private land being the responsibility of the building dept?  Is it me calling CalOSHA?  What exactly is it that has you convinced I'm a scofflaw in conflict with the constitution, a threat to democracy?



Tiger:

Wherein does the code allow you to make a contractor TV a sewer lateral?


----------



## mtlogcabin

UPC 103.5.8 Other Inspections


----------



## Pcinspector1

IPC 104.3 Inspections. Can request expert opinion as deemed necessary on unusual technical issues. Boring and pipe bursting would IMO be unusual due to no way of visual inspection unless a camera was used. Without a camera, fall to the sewer main can not be determined. 

IRC 104.4 request for inspection reports


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> Tiger:
> 
> Wherein does the code allow you to make a contractor TV a sewer lateral?


It's not the lateral.  It is the building sewer.  We are supposed to be onsite for a camera run prior to doing the work to make sure that there is no major offset or sewer connections that will be eliminated.  That camera run never happens.  We then have the pipe filled and dump the water to see if it drains properly.


----------



## tmurray

If any individual notes that there are violations from the adopted safety regulations and does not attempt to have the deficiencies remedied, including contacting workplace health and safety officers, they can be held partially liable for any injuries here. We also have the right to refuse any work that is unsafe. ICE would be well within his rights here and actually performing his due diligence as an inspector in that regard.

I am in the same boat as I also inspect the building connection to the municipal sewer. The vast majority of connections have the full length of the connection open for inspection. Those that do not require a video inspection, provided by the owner. Again, would be just doing his job here.

Everyone seems to have gotten very excited for what looks to me like someone just doing their job.


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> It's not the lateral.  It is the building sewer.  We are supposed to be onsite for a camera run prior to doing the work to make sure that there is no major offset or sewer connections that will be eliminated.  That never happens.  We then have the pipe filled and dump the water to see if it drains properly.



Okay, tell me the difference, we normally have sewers in the streets, these systems are privately installed but inspected by the sanitary districts (and I believe take title to them).  Then when we build a building we install a sewer lateral from 3' outside the building connecting to the sanitary district's sewer in the street.  The pumbing/building inpsector inspects the building system to 3' outside the building, the sanitary district comes out and TVs the lateral, the average contractor doesn't own TV equipment, and I don't believe you can make them buy/or rent it. I believe your jurisdiction ends 3' outside the structure.


----------



## steveray

The sewer authority does not own the laterals here......Nor water...


----------



## Pcinspector1

conarb, If the jurisdictions authority ends 3-ft from the building wheres the utility easement start? Does CA allow the utility to work on private property outside of a UE? 

Here I inspect from the building to the sanitary stub or main connection.


----------



## conarb

Pcinspector1 said:


> conarb, If the jurisdictions authority ends 3-ft from the building wheres the utility easement start? Does CA allow the utility to work on private property outside of a UE?
> 
> Here I inspect from the building to the sanitary stub or main connection.



It's apparent that different areas have differeing policies.  We do not put sewer laterals in utility easements, utility easements are for the use of the sanitary districts if they choose/need to run their mains across private property (typically down side yards to reach streets/property below).  The lateral is owned by the property it is installed within, the sanitary district has to inspect the connection between the lateral and their main so they run their TV down the lateral when there. Frankly I've never looked into the legalities of this, sanitary districts just do what they do and they are all different to some extent, we just accept what they do and go with the flow (pun intended).  Why would a building inspector want to go beyond the scope of the structure?  

About 1980 I built a home on top of a hill with no sewer, I could run the lateral down the hill behind the house to a road below, the problem was there was a creek by the road and the sewer was only 5' deep in the road, I proposed to the sanitary district that I bridge the creek with steel to hit the sewer, they decided they didn't want that and would prefer that I install a sewer pump on the side of the creek and pump the effluent up to the road.  The building department got involved in none of this, sewer, pump, pump enclosure, electrical, all installed to sanitary district specifications and inspected by them.  When they issued the sanitary district permit there were pages of specifications stamped by their engineers.  I had another case in 1976 where I had no sewer, I wanted to install a septic tank but the sanitary district refused, I finally installed a pump house outside the main house and pumped the effluent about a 1,000 feet uphill to their sewer, all permited and inspected by the sanitary district.   I doubt Tiger has all those specifications to give me to do that compliant with sanitary district regulations. 

We've had many discussions over the years as to where your authority ends, walks, patios, etc., same with sewer laterals.


----------



## my250r11

tmurray said:


> Everyone seems to have gotten very excited for what looks to me like someone just doing their job.



I agree. Here state law allows us to abate unsafe or life threatening situations either with corrections, red tag, or pull a utility weather it is code or OSHA has no difference, unsafe is unsafe to me or to pubic.

As for sewer lines on private property to the property line we inspect. Outside a licensed contractor has to make taps and repairs and that is inspected buy us as well, for residential and most commercial taps. The City is the water and sewer utility. New line in subdivision are inspected by the appropriate dept.


----------



## ICE

conarb,

Not only do we have different policies, we have different terminology.  

The lowest waste pipe within the building is labeled building drain.  That extends to 2' beyond the wall of the building.  From that point to the property line the waste pipe is labeled building sewer.  Beyond the property line it is called a sewer lateral.  I inspect building drains and building sewers.  A different dept. inspects laterals along with the tap & saddle.


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> conarb,
> 
> Not only do we have different policies, we have different terminology.
> 
> The lowest waste pipe within the building is labeled building drain.  That extends to 2' beyond the wall of the building.  From that point to the property line the waste pipe is labeled building sewer.  Beyond the property line it is called a sewer lateral.  I inspect building drains and building sewers.  A different dept. inspects laterals along with the tap & saddle.



Tiger:

Makes it hard to discuss these things since we are talking in differing languages, another thing is that if we have a septic tank  the whole system from the building stub through the tank itself is inspected by the County Environmental Health Department, even if the building is located within a city.


----------



## steveray

The terminology in the IPC is as Tiger describes...I am struggling with this currently and trying to have the designers show the point of utility connection on the site plans so that I know where my authority/ responsibility ends...


----------



## Pcinspector1

Sing it with me.....

The DWV is connected to the - building drain
The building drain is connected to the -  building sewer 
The building sewer is connected to the the city sewer main.

Now when you try to save water by passing and enforcing new legislation, 

The property owner will need a contractor -
The contractor will need a permit - 
The back-hoe operator will dig up the sewer 
cuz there's not enough water in the line!

I bet San Fran dumps storm in that sewer line.

Thanks for singing!


----------



## ICE

It is Tuesday and there is shoring.




The pipe was plugged off and filled with water.  The plumber dumped the water and stuck in the camera.  The water kept coming.  The plumber speculated that the occupant was taking a shower.  He knocked on the door but got no answer.  I went to my next inspection and returned in about twenty minutes.  Now the owner was out front with the plumber.  The owner stated that he has not used any water and was not in the shower.  The water was still running through the building sewer.  I went inside and verified that no water is being released into a drain.  I checked the water meter and there is no movement.  The building is a slab on grade.  The water was running when I left and had not slowed.

There are no other buildings on the property.  The building is a slab on grade.  When the plumber blocked the sewer so that he could fill the pipe, it sat filled up to a cleanout in the front yard.  So why did it not overflow from the water we see running out now?  The water is not under pressure at it's source.  Where could the water come from without enough pressure to climb out of a cleanout?


----------



## conarb

I see this as a sanitary district problem, if the water isn't coming from the building it could be an underground spring or a high water table at some point, this means the sanitary district is taking on and treating all kinds of effluent that it isn't getting paid for. You not only don't have cameras, you don't have any kind of leak detection equipment, you are in over your head.


----------



## cda

conarb said:


> I see this as a sanitary district problem, if the water isn't coming from the building it could be an underground spring or a high water table at some point, this means the sanitary district is taking on and treating all kinds of effluent that it isn't getting paid for. You not only don't have cameras, you don't have any kind of leak detection equipment, you are in over your head.




Conarb

Did you vote for the "top two" candidate law in calif??

Seems like that could get a little slanted, in some races???


----------



## conarb

t





cda said:


> Conarb
> 
> Did you vote for the "top two" candidate law in calif??
> 
> Seems like that could get a little slanted, in some races???



CDA:

We already have it, the top two candidates from today's election will that appear on the November election ballot.  You're right, it is a disaster, a few of the candidates propose getting rid of it if they are elected.   The  big proposition here was a proposal to require a vote to premit virtually any new building, the city is on the right side here and put a competing measure on the ballot so votes on permits would only occur if someone proposed permiting a building on designated open space or parks.  Lots of the measures are as confusing as building codes, yes becomes no.   For instance, the state is raking in a fortune in these carbon credits, a proposition portends to limit that money to transportation, in reality it sends it to bicycle trails, the governor's stupid train to nowhere, and more new BART cars, the reality is that they have removed most seating from the new cars to make room for more bicycles and wheelchairs with only a couple of seats in each car.


----------



## cda

conarb said:


> t
> 
> CDA:
> 
> We already have it, the top two candidates from today's election will that appear on the November election ballot.  You're right, it is a disaster, a few of the candidates propose getting rid of it if they are elected.   The  big proposition here was a proposal to require a vote to premit virtually any new building, the city is on the right side here and put a competing measure on the ballot so votes on permits would only occur if someone proposed permiting a building on designated open space or parks.  Lots of the measures are as confusing as building codes, yes becomes no.   For instance, the state is raking in a fortune in these carbon credits, a proposition portends to limit that money to transportation, in reality it sends it to bicycle trails, the governor's stupid train to nowhere, and more new BART cars, the reality is that they have removed most seating from the new cars to make room for more bicycles and wheelchairs with only a couple of seats in each car.




WHAT ,,,no more Moon Beam??

Did the illegal space aliens call thier leader home???


----------



## classicT

ICE said:


> conarb,
> 
> Not only do we have different policies, we have different terminology.
> 
> The lowest waste pipe within the building is labeled building drain.  That extends to 2' beyond the wall of the building.  From that point to the property line the waste pipe is labeled building sewer.  Beyond the property line it is called a sewer lateral.  I inspect building drains and building sewers.  A different dept. inspects laterals along with the tap & saddle.


This is how it is properly defined in the IRC, IPC, and UPC.


----------



## conarb

cda said:


> WHAT ,,,no more Moon Beam??
> 
> Did the illegal space aliens call thier leader home???



He's termed out again, in the 70s he did a lot of damage in his two terms, he came back and is ending his second two term stint.  I read this morning that Cox the Republican that Trump endorsed did make it to the final two in November.  

There was an op/ed article Monday in the wall Street Journal that addressed the fact that global warming was nothing but the social justice agenda mentioning that both Moombeam and Al Gore were Divinity School dropouts.



			
				Wall Street Journal said:
			
		

> *Climate Change Has Run Its Course*
> *Its descent into social-justice identity politics is the last gasp of a cause that has lost its vitality.*
> By
> Steven F. Hayward
> June 4, 2018 6:54 p.m. ET
> 
> Climate change is over. No, I’m not saying the climate will not change in the future, or that human influence on the climate is negligible. I mean simply that climate change is no longer a pre-eminent policy issue. All that remains is boilerplate rhetoric from the political class, frivolous nuisance lawsuits, and bureaucratic mandates on behalf of special-interest,,,,
> 
> *A good indicator of why climate change as an issue is over can be found early in the text of the Paris Agreement.* The “*nonbinding*” pact declares that climate action must include concern for “gender equality, empowerment of women, and intergenerational equity” as well as “the importance for some of the concept of ‘climate justice.’ ” Another is Sarah Myhre’s address at the most recent meeting of the American Geophysical Union, in which she proclaimed that climate change cannot fully be addressed without also grappling with the misogyny and social injustice that have perpetuated the problem for decades.
> 
> _*The descent of climate change into the abyss of social-justice identity politics represents the last gasp of a cause that has lost its vitality. Climate alarm is like a car alarm – a blaring noise people are tuning out.
> 
> The second stage typically includes a large amount of euphoric enthusiasm – you might call it the “dopamine” stage—as activists conceive the issue in terms of global peril and salvation. This tendency explains the fanaticism with which divinity-school dropouts Al Gore and Jerry Brown have warned of climate change.¹*_


_*
*_
Now can we get social justice out of our codes?  That includes energy, green, and ADA, in the end it's all religion propogated by religious nuts like Brown and Gore, they can't call it religion since we have fredom from religion so thye call it something else.  


¹ https://www.wsj.com/articles/climate-change-has-run-its-course-1528152876


----------



## Rick18071

*Steven F. Hayward* is not a scientist he is just an American author, political commentator, and policy scholar, who argues for libertarian and conservative view points in his writings.


----------



## conarb

Rick18071 said:


> *Steven F. Hayward* is not a scientist he is just an American author, political commentator, and policy scholar, who argues for libertarian and conservative view points in his writings.



That's true, I checked him out before I posted, but notice I said it had made it to the op/ed page in The Wall Street Journal.  He brings up the point that the American Geophysical Union (which are scientists) said: "Another is Sarah Myhre’s address at the most recent meeting of the American Geophysical Union, in which she proclaimed that climate change cannot fully be addressed without also grappling with the misogyny and social injustice that have perpetuated the problem for decades."  What does misogny and social injustice have to do with science?

If you want science, go to the House Committee on Science, Space, and Technology:



> *Former NOAA Scientist Confirms Colleagues Manipulated Climate Records*
> Feb 5, 2017
> Press Release
> WASHINGTON – U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Science, Space, and Technology members today responded to reports about the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s (NOAA) 2015 climate change study (“the Karl study”). According to Dr. John Bates, the recently retired principal scientist at NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center, the Karl study was used “to discredit the notion of a global warming hiatus and rush to time the publication of the paper to influence national and international deliberations on climate policy.”
> 
> *Background*
> 
> In the summer of 2015, NOAA scientists published the Karl study, which retroactively altered historical climate change data and resulted in the elimination of a well-known climate phenomenon known as the “climate change hiatus.”  The hiatus was a period between 1998 and 2013 during which the rate of global temperature growth slowed.  This fact has always been a thorn in the side of climate change alarmists, as it became difficult to disprove the slowdown in warming.
> 
> The Karl study refuted the hiatus and rewrote climate change history to claim that warming had in fact been occurring.  The committee heard from scientists who raised concerns about the study’s methodologies, readiness, and politicization.  In response, the committee conducted oversight and sent NOAA inquiries to investigate the circumstances surrounding the Karl study.
> 
> Over the course of the committee’s oversight, NOAA refused to comply with the inquiries, baselessly arguing that Congress is not authorized to request communications from federal scientists.  This culminated in the issuance of a congressional subpoena, with which NOAA also failed to comply.  During the course of the investigation, the committee heard from whistleblowers who confirmed that, among other flaws in the study, it was rushed for publication to support President Obama’s climate change agenda.
> 
> For a complete timeline of the Science Committee’s oversight of NOAA’s 2015 climate change study, click here.
> 
> 115th Congress ¹



Just for the record, no Chinese or Russian scientists believe in global warming, they believe we are going into a global cooling period called a *Maunder Minimum*.  



¹ https://science.house.gov/news/pres...nfirms-colleagues-manipulated-climate-records


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> Where could the water come from without enough pressure to climb out of a cleanout?



ICE, have you determined the water source? Is there a swimming pool in the area? Neighboring property issue?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> ICE, have you determined the water source? Is there a swimming pool in the area? Neighboring property issue?


I haven't heard from the contractor.  I wrote a correction asking them to determine where the water was coming from and stop the flow.  I also stated that a camera run is not any good with water running so another inspection with the camera will be required.  I passed by there today and took this picture.  Apparently they know something that I don't..


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for footing location.  He found out that the excavation is too shallow by 12 inches and therefor the re-bar ties are too small.





He found out that friction fit does not apply to reinforcement,




He attended a class on doweling steel....a free course of course.




I may have ruined any prospect of a good evaluation when I told him about temporary power poles.




The gentleman is Chinese and not so good with English.  It took a long time to explain the problems.....a really long time and I'm not positive that I got through to him.  Luckily, this is in another inspector's territory and I was there for just one day.  I might have to take the job anyway for the pictures.


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for a water heater.  The T&P drains to the pan.  I wrote a correction to extend the T&P to the exterior.  It isn't far or difficult and will be hidden by foliage.  The lady said that the contractor had mentioned that I might require that.  He was even nice enough to give her a $600.00 estimate. for two sticks of pipe, four elbows and an hours work if he takes a thirty minute break.




The company is large and services Home Depot customers.  They sell an expansion tank with nearly every water heater.  Now and then a homeowner will ask me if the code really requires the expansion tank.  And wouldn't ya know it, the tanks are $600.00.  They must work on commission.


The biggest plumbing contractor around here has hundreds of trucks that are manned with one to two workmen.  At the end of the shift the truck is returned to a warehouse.  Everything in the truck is counted.  Anything that is missing must show up as sold on a work order.  If not, the workmen must pay for it.
The radio/internet ad gets the company on your property because your sewer is backed up or there's a water leak.  Now they work you over.  If the truck doesn't sell $20,000.00 every week the company will send the workmen to a sales school.  If that fails well perhaps thievery just isn't a good fit.


----------



## linnrg

ICE - if you have recirculated hot water systems the expansion tank should be installed,  I wonder sometimes if the contractors bother to study the principles/logic behind some of the code language.  Here in cold country the rule that is interpreted that a T&P must go to the exterior is ignored with approval.
On a past commercial project I found a water heater installed in a closet where the T&P was dripping to one of those little 1/8 hp condensate capture pump and a small hose to a drain receptor  Everything in that closet was covered by layers of dust.  The leaking T&P had been sending wasted hot water to the sanitary for years.  Because the (Outside of the building sewer) line had a sag in it and was shallow when the leak was fixed by an expansion tank properly installed (and T&P replaced) on that circulated hot water line the building sewer froze up!  The previous tenants had moved out they were medical offices - needles to say the new tenants pay somewhat less to the gas utility.  The building owner had at least saved from having to dig up his sagging sewer line for years!


----------



## ICE

linnrg,
I had not thought about re-circulation systems.  That makes sense.  I see several in a year.

The contractor relies on code that requires the expansion tank if the system is a closed loop.  They claim that a pressure regulator creates a closed loop.  My AHJ has never taken that position with SFR.  Some apartment buildings have enough pipe in a hot attic that an expansion tank is warranted.  Commercial properties generally have a check valve on the potable water system and therefor the expansion tank is required.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> Commercial properties generally have a check valve on the potable water system and therefor the expansion tank is required.



Here, the residential properties are required to have a check-valve on the potable water service line requiring a pressure controlling devise, like an expansion tank. P2903.4.2 

Also there are numerous expansion tanks available for under $100.00. 

We will NOT allow PVC pipe (unless rated) or PEX (insert fittings make it smaller than 3/4-inch).


----------



## classicT

ICE said:


> Now and then a homeowner will ask me if the code really requires the expansion tank.



As stated above, generally in a SFD, an expansion tank is unnecessary; commercial always. Exceptions would include re-circulation systems, a PRV, a booster pump, or a water meter with integral backflow preventer. Each of the aforementioned systems prevent the release of pressure within a system. Locally, 2 cities use water meters with a integral backflow preventer (and properly require an expansion tank), and 1 does not unless warranted.


----------



## Rick18071

*No Data Manipulation at NOAA*


By Vanessa Schipani

Posted on February 9, 2017 | Updated on September 25, 2017

press release — “Former NOAA Scientist Confirms Colleagues Manipulated Climate Records” — as part of an ongoing dispute over the validity of a paper published in the journal _Science_ in June 2015 by NOAA scientists.



The NOAA study was one of several peer-reviewed studies published in recent years that found the so-called global warming “slowdown” did not occur. The studies countered the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s 2013 assessment report, which suggested a slowdown in global warming had occurred.

The Republican press release was issued a day after John Bates, a former NOAA scientist not involved with the study, published a blog post that accused the paper’s lead author, Thomas R. Karl, former director of NOAA’s National Centers for Environmental Information, of having “his ‘thumb on the scale’— in the documentation, scientific choices, and release of datasets—in an effort to discredit the notion of a global warming hiatus.”

Prompted by Bates’ blog post, the press release issued by Republicans accused Karl and his co-authors of data manipulation. “I applaud Dr. Bates’s efforts in uncovering the truth of this data manipulation,” Illinois Rep. Darin LaHood, chairman of the oversight subcommittee, said in the press release.

The committee also repeatedly tweeted about the incident, citing a misleading articlepublished in the British tabloid the _Daily Mail _that made the same accusations, and retweeted similarly misleading articles by Fox News and the _National Review_ (see update below).

But in interviews with the Associated Press and E&E, an online energy and environmental news outlet, Bates said he had not accused his colleagues of data manipulation.

Bates told the AP on Feb. 6 that there was “no data tampering, no data changing, nothing malicious” involved with his colleagues’ study. “It’s not trumped up data in any way shape or form,” he said.

Read more at https://www.factcheck.org/2017/02/no-data-manipulation-at-noaa/


----------



## linnrg

my days are the opposite average of ICE's.

Yesterday while doing a Final Inspection, the client (a State Trooper) was walking the home with me.  His nice wife walked up behind us and said "I am going to the store - do you need me to get anything?"  I quickly said "yes get beer!"  Lots of laughs (they have know me for quite a few years).  I think it was last year while I was writing a check to get my fishing & hunting license when this voice from behind me said "I WOULD not take a check from that guy!" - the very young clerk looked up at me with genuine concern.  I turned around and said to the clerk - " don't mind him he is just a state trooper".


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> The T&P drains to the pan.  I wrote a correction to extend the T&P to the exterior.  It isn't far or difficult and will be hidden by foliage.



Would you allow that copper discharge pipe to be that close to the FF? 6-inch rule?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Would you allow that copper discharge pipe to be that close to the FF? 6-inch rule?


No.  Never in a pan and between 6” to 20” above grade .....outside.


----------



## ICE

ICE said:


> The job is an electrical service upgrade and this is the service entrance conduit.  Sun glare prevented me from seeing clearly.  It appears as though there is no roof jack.  So I wrote a correction to install a roof jack.  Shirley seeing clearly in a picture makes a difference.
> So now the correction will change to “install the roof jack correctly”.






Several more inspections were requested and nothing new took place.  I finally asked for a re-inspection fee which was paid and another inspection requested.  As before, the contractor insisted that the flashing is installed correctly and is over the lower tile.  A piece of tile was removed to show me.

I asked to see a little more. Another piece of tile was removed.  Now I can see that sheet metal has been added to make it look like the flashing runs over the lower tile....which was an effort to make it look less wrong but not right..




There was but one tile to go.  And there I find exposed wood.




The work was done by a sub-contractor to a solar contractor.  Both contractors have mounted a campaign to have me banned from inspecting their work.  I reckon that they deserve each other and if it wasn't for the owner I would agree.

What I don’t understand is how they stay in business.  Granted, most of the corrections that I hand them are electrical in nature and nobody sees them but me and a few other inspectors.  So in the long run, those corrections don’t make much difference but the damage they do to roofs is out there for all to see.


----------



## ICE

The job is solar install.  The inverter is at the right of the door.  There is a disconnect to the left of the door.  It is 4' from the water's edge.  

The switch, receptacle and nmc is energized.  The extension between the meter and the socket is where a line side tap occurred.  It has Edison's lock and tag.  The installer had to move the hanging switch out of the way to complete the work.  The service drop is 10' above the pool.

The Governor wants to do this to a million homes.  He must not like homeowners.  Considering the property tax the state hauls in you'd think he would show a little more respect.


----------



## ICE

Here’s two ways to get it wrong.




It isn't a code violation but I did mention it.  I'll be on vacation for the next two weeks so I will never know if it was fixed.


----------



## ICE

Owner builder wanted to know if this is okay.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Is this okay?

Not if it's a bearing wall and the Cripples and header are missing? 
Return air if that's a heat run, wall receptacles meeting the 12-ft rule? Light switches?


----------



## cda

conarb said:


> t
> 
> CDA:
> 
> We already have it, the top two candidates from today's election will that appear on the November election ballot.  You're right, it is a disaster, a few of the candidates propose getting rid of it if they are elected.   The  big proposition here was a proposal to require a vote to premit virtually any new building, the city is on the right side here and put a competing measure on the ballot so votes on permits would only occur if someone proposed permiting a building on designated open space or parks.  Lots of the measures are as confusing as building codes, yes becomes no.   For instance, the state is raking in a fortune in these carbon credits, a proposition portends to limit that money to transportation, in reality it sends it to bicycle trails, the governor's stupid train to nowhere, and more new BART cars, the reality is that they have removed most seating from the new cars to make room for more bicycles and wheelchairs with only a couple of seats in each car.





Poor Oakland

In the news again. Maybe they should let another city take them over 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...eless-mans-camp-lake-merritt-video/694005002/


----------



## conarb

It does look like junk, but I'm sure the guy will be arrested for throwing it into the lake.  I've built a lot in Oakland, even apartments that rented for under $100 a month in the 50s and 60s, but nothing with codes and regulations like they have now.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

A couple times each year I will be called out for a plumbing inspection where the pipe is not glued.


----------



## ICE

2/0 wire





The contractor kept referring to the guy that did this as his electrician.




When I got to the closet he told me that his electrician assured him that this is legal as long as they agree to not use the closet.

There's a kitchen and two bathroom remodel going on.   I wrote 29 corrections and thought of two more while looking at the pictures.  The so-called electrician won’t be back.




Another inspector wrote a correction to expose the underfloor plumbing that was installed and covered without inspection.  So they removed the floor sheathing.  The plumbing is smothered in concrete.  The rest of the house is raised floor framing.


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for windows.  I knocked on the door and nobody but a pack of dogs answered.  I rang the doorbell.  Still nothing.  I started to write a slip when the doorbell said, "Can I help you?"  I introduced myself.  The doorbell said, "Hold on, I'll call my husband".  Three minutes later the doorbell barked to life with, "I have been trying to call your office to find out when you will be there.  I'm only twenty minutes away.  I'll leave right now."
The barker said that I can see the windows from the outside If I will just go in the back yard.  So I did that.




I wrote a correction or two.  I put it at the front door.  I was ten feet away when the doorbell said, "Hey! I'm still here.  What happened"?
The doorbell has an eye as well as a mouth.
I started with there is no flashing when the doorbell cut me off........
"Not the window, the framing is what you are inspecting".

Perhaps I'm selfish but I just didn't want to explain corrections to an angry doorbell.


----------



## ICE

The permit states "Replace the forced air furnace located in the garage".  This is the front door.





This is the furnace:


----------



## ICE

It has looked like this for a long time.  There is a building permit from early 2016 for a room addition.  I was there for a requested framing inspection.




At first glance the place looks vacant.  But as soon as you enter through the hole for the front door you find the original house.




The room addition enveloped the entire original house.




This pile of debris has been there for two years......and nobody has complained.  I was here for the first and only time about eight months ago.  I told them to clean their site then.  There is no excuse. I'm convinced that they ran out of money and can't finish the construction.  The latest inspection request was an effort to keep the permits alive.  I'm in no rush to expire the permits but there is no excusing the trash pile.


----------



## ICE

I had no part in this but gosh I felt sad.

_R311.3.2 Floor elevations for other exterior doors. 


Doors other than the required egress door shall be provided with landings or floors not more than 73/4 inches (196 mm) below the top of the threshold. 


Exception: A top landing is not required where a stairway of not more than two risers is located on the exterior side of the door, provided that the door does not swing over the stairway. _


----------



## ICE

The dwelling burned.  The inside was gutted.  I was there six months ago for a framing inspection.  I did not go back because the address is in another inspectors area.  I was there today for the final inspection.

The island has two receptacles.  One at each end under a counter that protrudes 13".  Six inches being the limit, I wrote a correction.  The contractor already had an inspection the day before and had a few corrections so he was upset that I was writing more corrections.  He was adamant that the entire island counter was existing.  It survived the fire unscathed.  I told him that I was in this house long ago and I know that's not the case.  He would not give up.  I finally said existing or not you have a correction to deal with.  The nerve of some people.


----------



## my250r11

ICE said:


> when I confront them they tell me that they did it wrong again because the didn't know that I was the inspector.



, so keep doing it wrong until its for you I hate that.  Construction industry changes all the time. Don't believe any of us do things the same as we did 30 years ago, I know I don't. It's hard to keep up with the new materials, fasteners, systems etc.!!!


----------



## ICE

Somebody thought that I would scurry up that ladder.  And that's asphalt shingles with air temp. of 116°.  The ladder is probably too hot to touch.  The bed cover on my truck could fry pork chops and eggs. 

On a calm, soothing, winter day you're gonna need a crane to show me the top roof of that house.


----------



## conarb

You see why none of our inspectors are allowed to climb, were I your CBO I'd fire you and send yout to work for MH, you'd spend the rest of your working life measuring the heights of handicap signs.


----------



## Glenn

ICE said:


> Owner builder wanted to know if this is okay.


I'll take a stab at it.
1) It's a bearing wall, based on clue from the header to the right, and direction of tape on ceiling.
2) There used to be a wall across this opening, based on clue of marking on floor of old plate.
3) There used to be a door to this room on the right from the hallway, based on clue from stud height and drywall above infill studs.
4) The wide header...hmmm...that is weird.  I'm going to say that it was a pocket door to the hallway.
Thanks for the game, did I win! ha!


----------



## ICE

The contractor is a Mechanical contractor (C-20).  The job is a new furnace, a/c and electrical service upgrade.
The panel is 4' 4" from the pool.  The minimum requirement is 5’.  There was a flush mount panel located at the same spot previously.  The enclosure is mounted over a hole in the wall.  I requested that a licensed Electrical contractor take out the electrical permit.


----------



## Rick18071

Never saw a pool so close to a house. Would you make them bond the rain gutter and window frame to the pool bonding system now or only when the pool or rain gutter or window is new?


----------



## ICE

Rick18071 said:


> Never saw a pool so close to a house. Would you make them bond the rain gutter and window frame to the pool bonding system now or only when the pool or rain gutter or window is new?



It would be a hard sell to ask for bonding the windows, weep screed, and gutter after the fact.  The new service panel will be relocated.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

Could somebody please tell us what is wrong here?  A code section would be great.


----------



## ICE

The contractor told the lady that this might be a problem.  "Let's see what happens with the inspector".


----------



## ICE

Same pool, different clamps.


----------



## linnrg

#2826
t&p to a drain
washer to piping that does not have a trap (is that some form of an
extension threaded pipe drainage?) possible undersize of a vent.
Where does the condensate pump discharge to?  Outlet is not
GFCI.

Appliances are elevated, so must be a garage.  Do you require
the other appliances to be elevated as well (I see gas piping, so
I assume gas dryer).  We have had some differing opinions about
that.


----------



## Rick18071

Looks like a basement to me.
The P&T relief valve does not comply with IRC P2803.6.1:
1. Not to be connected to drainage system
2. Discharge through a air gap
7. Discharge in a termination point that is readily observable
8. Not be trapped


----------



## ICE

linnrg said:


> Do you require the other appliances to be elevated as well (I see gas piping so I assume gas dryer).  We have had to differing opinions about that.



I suppose the code would support raising a gas clothes dryer.  I don't enforce it that way.  I'll ask around and see what other inspectors are doing.  My feeling is that I can approve what I inspect and the laundry equip is not part of that.  Well heck...maybe it is....part of that I mean.  I'll find out....if I don't forget.  What was I talking about just now?

Garage doors work like an explosion vent.  I had a case where a father and son turned the two car garage into a spray booth.  By the look of the laundry sink, I think it lasted a long time.  But one day it blew up.  Junior had just stepped out the man door when it went.  The door flattened him and the blast knocked the walls off the footing.  When they built it back I made them demo the laundry sink.  They had been draining paint and who knows what for years.  Funny thing is that the neighbors didn't complain and I found over-spray in a lot of spots.


----------



## ICE

Some jurisdictions accept a document in lieu of inspecting smoke and CO alarms.  And by the way, they are not detectors.....don't say smoke detector or Co detector.  A detector isn't going to wake you up.  Well anyway, I have seen a few of the documents stapled to a job card like I will inspect whatever and not need to go inside.  I have said no because I detected dishonesty and found no alarms.  I just wanted to use the word detected in a sentence.  I would never accept a document.  I've even see them with a Notary seal.  It's only been a handful of times and each time there was no detectors....or alarms either.

Today was a good example of the level of competence found in the solar industry.  The guy handed me this with all the confidence in the world that I would just move on.


----------



## conarb

Tiger:

So the solar contractors are giving the owners these forms telling their customers to fill them out and attach them to the permit cards to avoid liability?


----------



## classicT

Form looks super official as the first word is missing the first letter. Starts off well....

Aside from the fact that this should never be accepted, the form documents a non-compliant installation - 3 floors yet only 2 alarms?


----------



## fatboy

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
My thoughts exactly!


----------



## ICE

The plan was to remove the screw to show me that the pipe is filled with water.  He said that it's just a vent so a dab of glue will fix it.


----------



## ICE

Now that's a rodent problem.


----------



## ICE

A lot of mistakes in a small space.  The worst of which was not bringing along a neutral conductor.










The owner said that the contractor chose this spot to place the unit because there was a plumbing vent close by.




I'm not so sure that the label behind the disconnect is all that important but the panel that it is mounted to is meant to come off for access to the innards.







The contractor is a large outfit.  They have salespeople at Costco. An affiliation with a big box store is a red flag.  As soon as the owner says that ***** or **** ***** is the contractor I know that a recent parolee might have been doing the work.  You know, there's training available in the penal system.  Ok so I exaggerate.  I doubt that many are parolee's....work release is more likely.

It was 105° in the shade and hotter on that roof.  I should have not gone up there....nope, I should have said, "The disconnect is located in the wrong spot.  Move it and call for inspection".

Next time out, when I got to the top of the ladder it should have been, "You can't use a plumbing vent for a condensate disposal. Do that over and call for inspection".

The next time out it could have been, "That's the wrong screw for the dead front"....and on it goes.

Perhaps that would teach them to not send inexperienced workers to do the work.  But obviously I can't do that so I write a dozen stupid corrections.  They can't even install a lock ring correctly.

Yes I know that it's my job and I am paid to do this.  So who am I to complain?  The issue for me is the knowledge that slipshod work passes inspection in most cases.  That's not because the work was done correctly.  It is because the inspector didn't know or didn't look or didn't care.

I don't make such a statement lightly.  I have first hand experience.  I have witnessed that many times.  It is getting worse.


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


>


Second unit?


----------



## ICE

mark handler said:


> Second unit?


Not sure as I didn't get that close.  Of course the rules have been watered down to accommodate converted garages so if it is a second unit a permit will fix that.


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


> Some jurisdictions accept a document in lieu of inspecting smoke and CO alarms.  And by the way, they are not detectors.....don't say smoke detector or Co detector.  A detector isn't going to wake you up.  Well anyway, I have seen a few of the documents stapled to a job card like I will inspect whatever and not need to go inside.  I have said no because I detected dishonesty and found no alarms.  I just wanted to use the word detected in a sentence.  I would never accept a document.  I've even see them with a Notary seal.  It's only been a handful of times and each time there was no detectors....or alarms either.
> 
> Today was a good example of the level of competence found in the solar industry.  The guy handed me this with all the confidence in the world that I would just move on.


2013? codes
Spelling

yes the forms are given to the owners. Yes there is liability.


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


> Not sure as I didn't get that close.  Of course the rules have been watered down to accommodate converted garages so if it is a second unit a permit will fix that.


Even with the CA ADU Guidelines, there is still setback requirements, not met. Lateral,  Stair construction, stairs in "fire in rated areas", fire rating of construction and openings, zoning. some requirements are not exempt.


----------



## ICE

mark handler said:


> Even with the CA ADU Guidelines, there is still setback requirements, not met. Lateral,  Stair construction, stairs in "fire in rated areas", fire rating of construction and openings, zoning. some requirements are not exempt.


All that and you haven't been inside.  If the sheet metal roof is any indication, there's bound to be issues.


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


> All that and you haven't been inside.  If the sheet metal roof is any indication, there's bound to be issues.


You can see issues...


----------



## ICE

This is a service entrance conduit.  I asked the workman to back off the lock ring in order to see if there was an intact KO.  There is not but I did see that the lock ring that is listed for grounding does not penetrate the paint.

It was tight and it took a hammer and screw driver to turn it.

I am considering whether to allow these for grounding in the future.


----------



## classicT

Do-it-yourselfers be warned

Permit pulled for new gas line to service gas cooktop. Downdraft vent has been “capped” and new exhaust run via the microwave unit.




Microwave is set to recirculate air, so no air is being forced through the duct seen below. Although, with duck tape that has fallen off, who knows. Plot thickens, wondering where this duct goes...




....to the garage, above the workbench. 




Yeah... your going to need to pull another permit and provide a properly exhausted kitchen fan. Thanks


----------



## ICE

If this was done in a fashion that mimics the Roofing Institute's installation guide, the gap would not be so wide...the cut lines would not be parallel....the gap would be wider at the bottom than it is at the top by about two inches.  And it might not be quite so ugly.  However, does it meet the intent of the code?  Could I pass this work?  Would you even if you could?


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> If this was done in a fashion that mimics the Roofing Institute's installation guide, the gap would not be so wide...the cut lines would not be parallel....the gap would be wider at the bottom than it is at the top by about two inches.  And it might not be quite so ugly.  However, does it meet the intent of the code?  Could I pass this work?  Would you even if you could.?


Tiger:

I don't know what you are talking about, the valley metal has to be under the shingles, not on top.  I guess an argument could be made that the shingles are woven under the metal and the metal is merely redundant, if they want to make that argument they should remove the valley metal so you can inspect the way they are woven.


----------



## my250r11

ICE said:


> If this was done in a fashion that mimics the Roofing Institute's installation guide, the gap would not be so wide...the cut lines would not be parallel....the gap would be wider at the bottom than it is at the top by about two inches.  And it might not be quite so ugly.  However, does it meet the intent of the code?  Could I pass this work?  Would you even if you could.?



Appears the valley liner is under the shingle, most manu. specs. require a 4" to 6" min. overlap of the valley and sealed edges. If this is the case then it meets code and would have to pass, EVEN THO IT LOOKS LIKE CRAP! We don't have the luxury of what it looks like. In these situation I general inform the owner they have more power than me on the looks as long as they haven't paid them.


----------



## linnrg

I prefer the metal valleys versus the woven thru shingles.  Mostly because that is what we used to do way back when.  It was not hard to get clean lines out of it.  We also used double tar paper in the valleys under the metal.  I also used to work with T lock shingles versus the three tab because most of the areas were subject to high winds.

The picture clearly shows bad workmanship.  Like Ice says inform the owner and hope they have power over the bad contractor.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Looks like the valley metal overlaps done right. Hows it attached?


----------



## ICE

linnrg said:


> The picture clearly shows bad workmanship.  Like Ice says inform the owner and hope they have power over the bad contractor.



No ..... that was not me that said that.  I wrote a correction to do it over.  I get that it meets the code....well sorta meets the code.  Just not well enough to suit me.

It might look better next time out.....and it might not.....sooner or later it will look great.


----------



## ICE

This is a California Additional Dwelling Unit.  That's code for illegal construction being legalized because it got so far out of hand that the government tossed in the towel.













It is in my area but the contractor calls every time there is an inspection scheduled to find out who the inspector will be.  If it is me he stands me up.....five times so far.  If it is another inspector he shows up.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

The service entrance conduit is leaning.




I had the meter removed to expose the lock ring.  I wanted to verify that it mated correctly.  I also find the ring upside down now and then.




It did engage the can.  I also found the neutral conductor hard against a sharp edge.


----------



## ICE

"But it's temporary.  We'll move it when the addition is built."


----------



## MtnArch

Gotta luv that seismic bracing!  (wait .. isn't it supposed to be installed at 1/3 points?!?!)


----------



## ICE

The permits state "kitchen remodel".  The inspection requested was for MEPs.









The only work done is the copper line for a refrigerator.  The worker that was waiting form me called the contractor and put him on speaker phone.  He asked me to write electrical corrections.  I told him that no electrical work has been done.  Then he says that the project is an insurance job due to a water leak.  He wanted me to cause the house to be rewired as well as condemn the service panel.  He wasn't able to explain the steel pipe with the jim cap.

I did write an electrical correction regarding two small appliance circuits and the spacing of required receptacles.  The contractor said that there is no counter layout as there is no plans.


----------



## ICE

The permits are for replacing all of the duct work and R-30 insulation in the attic.

Here I am directly above a furnace that's in a closet.  





There was an upper combustion air opening to the furnace closet.  I can see a postage stamp sized portion.





I probably shouldn't remove the obstruction....


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

I tried to explain why this probably won't work.  The contractor is a dolt and insisted that he can squeeze 4"x4" framing in the space.  He argued every correction.  The owner was an observer.  I wrote a correction that outlines all the places an anchor bolt or HD is required.  I then explained that if the anchors or HDs are wrong at the framing inspection....this correction covers that.


----------



## ICE

The service upgrade was done by a solar contractor.  The location is the same as the previous panel.  Do you write the correction?





This is a sub-panel associated with the main.  None of the breakers at the main are labeled "sub-panel".




I found it in the garage when looking for the jumper (cold to hot to gas pipes) at the water heater.  Some make the argument that the scope of work and therefor the corrections is limited to the main service upgrade.  I am not one of them.

The main panel enclosure had this Myers hub.  It didn't fit.  The only way this could be accomplished is to screw the hub into the lock-ring. I wrote a correction that asks it to be replaced.  Unless they use a hammer and a chisel, the hub must be unscrewed from the lock-ring.  I should be able to tell by the scars or lack thereof.


----------



## ICE

This is at a chain drugstore.  And they wonder why they get sued?


----------



## Pcinspector1

What, cuz the TP's on the tank lid blocking the grab bar or that's there no reading material. 

You know George Costanza couldn't return a book because it was in the bathroom, it was flagged!


----------



## conarb

What's worse, that or this?


> A state audit of California Department of Motor Vehicles operations has found obscene levels of waste and inefficiency_—_unfortunately nothing really surprising when dealing with state or federal bureaucracy_—_however, the level of absurdity in terms of government ineptitude and abuse is aptly demonstrated in a section of the audit report now going viral, which details that *DMV supervisors knew an employee slept three hours a day on the job for nearly four years*.
> 
> The report found that from February 2014 through December 2017, *the DMV employee slept through a total of 2,200 hours’ worth of work, costing California taxpayers more than $40,000*, and true to form that is the 'high bar' of exceptional performance that is the typical DMV, the employee was never fired or so much as given a formal reprimand.
> 
> The unnamed snoozing employee is a data admin clerk that oversees updating address changes and vehicle ownership forms, a job that according the audit averages 560 processed documents per day, but the worker produced only 200 error-filled documents.
> 
> While fully aware of the poor performance and daily siestas, supervisors *"failed to take disciplinary or medical action against the employee after initial efforts to address her conduct proved unsuccessful,"* the audit said.
> 
> Perhaps most revealing of the innate ineptitude of state bureaucracy is the section that details why disciplinary action was not pursued: DMV officials told the state auditors that they couldn't do anything *for lack of a properly documented track record of bad behaviors*. So the sleeping employee could ultimately *continue taking naps on the California taxpayer's dime with impunity*.
> 
> The audit recorded other similar instances in parallel agencies, according to the report's highlight summary of findings:
> 
> 
> _Four employees at several agencies misused state time and cost the State approximately $160,000._
> _Two employees either took *extended breaks or left the premises over a five‑year period*._
> _One employee *regularly left early from work over two years.*_
> _One employee *slept at her desk for extended periods of time during work hours.*_
> 
> Auditors found the latter example so glaring that they gave the instance its own summary section on the first page of the report:
> 
> A key data operator at the Department of Motor Vehicles failed to perform her essential duties over a period of nearly four years because she slept at her desk for extended periods of time during work hours. From February 2014 through December 2017, the employee misused more than 2,200 hours of work time as a result of sleeping on the job, costing the State more than $40,000.
> 
> And further according to the report human resources didn't have "appropriate language necessary for such disciplinary action" _— _*meaning nothing could be done because there was no paper trail*. ¹



This has been all over the news, a doctor speculated that she has either narcolepsy or sleep apnea, they are not publishing who she is but leaks have said she is an obese black woman disabled by the illness.  That makes her at least a "three-fer".  

Don't get me wrong, nobody is accusing Tiger of sleeping on the job, but my point is lazy, inept government employees are a thousand times worse than a roll of toilet paper.  


¹ https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-26/california-dmv-worker-slept-3-years-job-audit-finds


----------



## Pcinspector1

Were so anal, pun intended, I'd rather have TP when on the throne than not, and could care less if the paper dispenses at the precise measurement from the floor based off some funded government research paper from a CA university or where ever the measurements come from.

ICE's wide angle lens makes the horizontal grab bar look like it's about six foot long and wheres the vertical bar at?

Not in the pic, but I bet the paper cowboy hats are at the proper height!

This must be a men's bathroom.


----------



## Mech

The TP dispenser is within 1 1/2" of the grab bar.

(The toilet brush in the corner violates the clear floor space requirement.)


----------



## Inspector Gift

Where is the 18" vertical grab bar?


----------



## conarb

Mech said:


> The TP dispenser is within 1 1/2" of the grab bar.
> 
> (The toilet brush in the corner violates the clear floor space requirement.)


I was in two medical offices today here in California, both had normal recessed toilet paper dispensers recessed directly behind the grab bar, and no verticals.

BTW, are you guys going to go around making sure people don't put toilet brushes on the floor?  People need them you know with our stupid low-flow toilets, or just leave crap all over the handicap toilets, serve them right.


----------



## ICE

Gosh conarb you are such a curmudgeon.  Every large enterprise has some lousy employees.  I have seen carpenters sleeping like a baby.  In ran an outfit with 150 workers.  Ten wouldn't show up... Ten were always late....another ten I wished would just go away.  Ten talked more than they worked.  Ten made enough mistakes to keep ten busy fixing them.  The remaining ninety got a lot of work done.

What makes you think that anyplace else is so much better than that?


----------



## conarb

c





ICE said:


> Gosh conarb you are such a curmudgeon.  Every large enterprise has some lousy employees.  I have seen carpenters sleeping like a baby.  In ran an outfit with 150 workers.  Ten wouldn't show up... Ten were always late....another ten I wished would just go away.  Ten talked more than they worked.  Ten made enough mistakes to keep ten busy fixing them.  The remaining ninety got a lot of work done.
> 
> What makes you think that anyplace else is so much better than that?


Tiger I can fire anybody who fails to perform, or just not hire them, if it's DMV or a building inspection I have to hire government employees, I have to license my cars at DMV and have to get my plans approved and buldings inspected by government employees, like it or not.   

There is an old saying: "For a happy, healthy life, don't deal with doctors, lawyers, or government employees".


----------



## MtnArch

Inspector Gift said:


> Where is the 18" vertical grab bar?


Not required in California.


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> c
> Tiger I can fire anybody who fails to perform, or just not hire them, if it's DMV or a building inspection I have to hire government employees, I have to license my cars at DMV and have to get my plans approved and buldings inspected by government employees, like it or not.
> 
> There is an old saying: "For a happy, healthy life, don't deal with doctors, lawyers, or government employees".


There’s a difference between people that work for me and people that work with me.  Those people worked with me.


----------



## mark handler

Pcinspector1 said:


> Were so anal, pun intended, I'd rather have TP when on the throne than not, and could care less if the paper dispenses at the precise measurement from the floor based off some funded government research paper from a CA university or where ever the measurements come from.
> ICE's wide angle lens makes the horizontal grab bar look like it's about six foot long and wheres the vertical bar at?
> Not in the pic, but I bet the paper cowboy hats are at the proper height!
> This must be a men's bathroom.



Location of TP is based on reach distance.

Vertical Bar Not required in CA.


----------



## conarb

> There’s a difference between people that work for me and people that work with me. Those people worked with me.



Then you should have quit or stayed and been a whistleblower, that's why I've always owned my own business so I can control what goes on.  I've told you before about a building inspector getting rotated out of the district where I was building, he warned m about the nit-picker I might get by telling me their names.  

I say there's nothing wrong with that installation you picture above, did you write it up and if so which section did you cite?


----------



## Pcinspector1

How did CA get out of requiring the 18-inch vertical grab bar?

Does CA allow the horizontal grab bar to be continuous around the back corner of the wall?

This TP is for the inspectors that conarb runs into!


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


> This is at a chain drugstore.  And they wonder why they get sued?


ANSI 117.1 and CBC
Spacing.  The space between the wall and the grab bar shall be 1-1/2 inches.  The space between the grab bar and *projecting objects* below and at the ends shall be 1- 1/2 inches minimum.  The space between the grab bar and projecting objects above shall be 12 inches minimum.

IN this case there needs to be a 1-1/2 inch space between the TP holder and the rail
Some need to grab the bar and slide along it.


----------



## mark handler

Pcinspector1 said:


> How did CA get out of requiring the 18-inch vertical grab bar?
> Does CA allow the horizontal grab bar to be continuous around the back corner of the wall?
> This TP is for the inspectors that conarb runs into!


Some in CA felt the 18-inch vertical grab bar, could be a hazard with wet hands.
It may come in the future.

Some in CA allow the continuous rail. Not prohibited by CA code, but not really code compliant. ​


----------



## Pcinspector1

Mark, thanks for putting up with me, you a wealth of information, appreciate the info. 

I knew what ICE was citing, the 1.5-inch spacing between the rail and the TP dispenser top.


----------



## conarb

Pcinspector1 said:


> I knew what ICE was citing, the 1.5-inch spacing between the rail and the TP dispenser top.



Isn't that nit-picking?


----------



## tmurray

conarb said:


> Isn't that nit-picking?



I've been told that I am nit-picking when I require foam insulation to be covered. When I require a handrail on stairs. When I require a sprinkler head to be moved or another head added due to an obstruction. And yes, when I require the pipes serving a lavatory in an accessible washroom to be covered.

Apparently I've become quite good at picking nits.


----------



## Pcinspector1

It's not really nit-picking, it comes to an inspector naturally. Your given an ADA cut and paste set of measurements from the Architects plans, that he stole from another set of plans that has been around from the Johnson administration, I think.

When you go out to do an inspection everything meets code except that TP dispenser, now what do you do? In ICE's concrete jungle, some "ol" boy's gonna sit on that pot and when he gets up he'll slip because he can't get his size 18 ring fingers around that pipe, now the lawyers go to town, but that's CA. The attorney's are gonna ask for those there inspection reports and ICE did his job "nit picking" or we call it "inspickin!" 

Why does the Architect go to all that trouble "cuttin" and "pastin" that ADA stuff on the plans if know one can read em but us inspeckers? Okay he caught the dude, the problem I see, he can't close that permit out and he's gotta go back and do a re-inspeckin, which would chap me. And probably chaps ICE, except I think ICE is a camera buff. I think he's doin a documentary when he retires.

By the way I got here and there was only five outstanding permits in the file which leads me to thinking, the previous inspecker closed em out without doin a re-inspeckin. We had an apartment fire here and that lawyer was asking me what the other inspeckers report said. I looked down at my Attorney's new Italian loafers and said looks like it sez, "Okie dokie" to me, I exclaimed can't you read Inspecker print?

Spit! 
ting!

conarb, you asked!


----------



## Rick18071

conarb said:


> Isn't that nit-picking?



I could get in trouble if the PA state auditor checked it. Possible lost of state inspection certification.

Don't let the ADAguy find out about no vertical grab bar in CA.


----------



## linnrg

well I am only offended because someone called that thing a cowboy hat


----------



## conarb

Pcinspector1 said:


> Spit!
> ting!
> 
> conarb, you asked!



 And people keep asking me: "How come it costs so much to build?"  I've read of two low income housing projects that are costing $1,000 a foot to build, and that's apparently in addition to land costs, I tell them about apartment projects I built in the 50s and 60s for $6 a square foot and they are still standing, I also paid union wages with full benefits. RIchmond's mayor is Tom Butt, Tom is a FAIA so he knows what things cost:



> RICHMOND — Richmond mayor Tom Butt is calling on the city’s biggest companies to foot the bill for a city-sanctioned homeless encampment akin to those in Oakland and Berkeley.
> 
> Over the weekend, Butt sent out the request to the companies with the largest amount of employees in Richmond, including Chevron Corporation, Kaiser Permanente, Blue Apron and Costco Wholesale. He asked each of the 10 companies to donate at least $154,000 to establish and operate a managed homeless camp that will serve at least 100 people.
> 
> By Monday, he hadn’t gotten any bites, Butt said.
> 
> Plans for a city-managed homeless encampment are in the very beginning stages, he said. The idea hasn’t gone before the City Council, and Butt is working to secure the funding first before working out all of the logistics and find a location.
> 
> “I’m not saying (the companies) should be paying for it; I’m just saying this is a purely philanthropic thing they can do. It’s not a tax; I’m not trying to compel them to do it, I’m just saying there’s a major problem in the community, and here’s a chance to be part o the solution,” Butt said.
> 
> His suggestion for the encampment is to have it be in a place that is “visually isolated from main streets,” but close to transportation and other services, he said in a blog post. A two-acre site could handle at least 100 people, he said.
> 
> The site would include water, toilets, hand-washing stations and trash disposal, he said, as well as a “day-room” for dining and one or more cargo containers for storage.
> 
> *He suggested tents or recreational vehicles be used to house people on the site. Any other structure, he said, would be subject to California Building codes and housing laws.¹*



So a FAIA says the only way to house the poor is tents that won't be subject to California Building Codes and Housing Laws.



¹ https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2018/08/02/richmond-mayor-asks-companies-to-pay-for-city-homeless-camp/


----------



## Paul Sweet

ADA doesn't require the vertical bar, and older editions of ANSI didn't require it.  I don't believe there is any requirement in ANSI to retrofit it.


----------



## mark handler

Paul Sweet said:


> ADA doesn't require the vertical bar, and older editions of ANSI didn't require it.  I don't believe there is any requirement in ANSI to retrofit it.


Just wait, they "maybe-a-coming"  in future additions


----------



## ICE

Dead flat and no drain.  But hey now! it holds water.





The same crew did this.




The point of this picture is the TWO bollards.  Nobody installs two.


----------



## conarb

mark handler said:


> Just wait, they "maybe-a-coming"  in future additions


Shouldn't we be fighting this so even more cost-increasing regulations aren't passed? If this does pass even more multi-family buildings will become non-compliant costing more money to build or remodel  driving more people into the streets.


----------



## Msradell

MtnArch said:


> Not required in California.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> Dead flat and no drain.  But hey now! it holds water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The same crew did this.



Plumbing items?
Cut a hole in the 1-hr wall above the WH tank? 
Tank is elevated 18-inches and has bollard protection unless those yellow things are PVC? 
CA strappin is on and PRV to outside is allowed if no freezing issue.
GAS- flex line?

Other issues:
Is the door solid core or metal? Does the door have self closing hinges? 
Assume the wall with no drywall or insulation is an outside wall.


----------



## my250r11

In post 2287, ICE, Are they going to be doing a 2 or 3 coat plaster in the shower, or tile? We don't see plaster in showers here, and use hardie backer board for tile.


----------



## mtlogcabin

The refrigerator is an appliance and an ignition source (by definition) within the garage and should be elevated 18 inches above the garage floor

M1307.3 Elevation of ignition source.
Appliances having an ignition source shall be elevated such that the source of ignition is not less than 18 inches (457 mm) above the floor in garages. For the purpose of this section, rooms or spaces that are not part of the living space of a dwelling unit and that communicate with a private garage through openings shall be considered to be part of the garage.

APPLIANCE. A device or apparatus that is manufactured and designed to utilize energy and for which this code provides specific requirements.


IGNITION SOURCE. A flame, spark or hot surface capable of igniting flammable vapors or fumes. Such sources include appliance burners, burner ignitions and electrical switching devices.


----------



## Pcinspector1

mtlogcabin said:


> The refrigerator is an appliance and an ignition source (by definition) within the garage and should be elevated 18 inches above the garage floor.



I was not aware of this, can't say I see this issue on new inspections but could see it on a remodel inspection . Some refrigerator power cords exit the unit above the 18" mark but they have the compressor typically sitting at the floor level, so is there a chance that's where a spark could happen or is that all sealed?

Not sure I've ever seen a refrigerator of chest freezer up 18" off the floor but the gas appliance would have to be there also.

Hummm


----------



## ICE

Edison has been changing service drops from worn out three wire drops to triplex drops.  They have seen both of these.

This looks like it could fall sideways with little force.




It was about 100° at the time so that wire is probably as long as it will get.


----------



## Pcinspector1

*Which appliances caused the most fires?*

14% washing machines (1,723)
12% tumble dryers (1,456)
11% dishwashers (1,324)
9% cookers (1,080)
7% fridges / freezers (861)
5% central heating (606)
4% toasters / grills (495)
4% microwaves (427)
1% vibrators (101)
Found this on net, not sure where that stats come from, but still interesting


----------



## conarb

Vibrators causing fires?  Some like it hot I guess.

We need a code change for a dedicated circuit behind every bed, and of course we'll need to inspect them to make sure they are working properly, Tiger is going to have a field day inspecting bedrooms.  I understand the real reason for emergency egress windows is an escape path in case a husband comes home.


----------



## mtlogcabin

It would depend on the location of the starting relay and overload relay and their location to the garage floor.
see diagram below


----------



## Pcinspector1

I have to confess, I doctored that list a bit, don't want anyone to get hot and bothered by it!


----------



## JCraver

Doesn't anyone have a Grandmother?  Mine was 5 foot nothing.  How was she supposed to get to the stuff in the bottom of the deep freeze if it's another foot and a half above the floor?  When she was still here, I'd have dared any man alive to tell her she had to raise it so she couldn't reach it - it wouldn't have gone well for him..

I 100% disagree that an electric appliance that does not have a heating coil in a garage must be elevated.  

This is bad code, and "capable of producing a spark" is ridiculous terminology - *everything* electrical is capable of producing a spark.  So all outlets in a garage have to be higher than 18" off the floor - after all, the plug on a cord-and-plug appliance is your "ignition source", right?  Then if there is a plugged in charger for a cordless tool battery on the floor when you go do your inspection then they fail?  What about a water softener?  A wine cabinet?  Even a box fan? 

Requiring someone to raise non-heating-element electric appliances is poor interpretation, and application, of the code.  IMO.


----------



## mtlogcabin

Growing up in Ft Lauderdale all the homes in my neighborhood originally had carports with a enclosed storage room at the rear over time the carports where enclosed making them single car garages. A couple of blocks over the son  filled the lawnmower with gas and set the can back inside the closed garage without putting the cap back on the can and closed the door.  About 20 minutes later there was an explosion that blew the garage door out. The only ignition source in the garage was a freezer which ignited the fumes from the gas can

My life experience have seen the results of it happening


----------



## JCraver

I don't disagree that it could happen, or even has happened.  I'm just saying that I don't think that's what the code means, and that if it does, it's bad code.  Lots of things _could_ happen.  Adding the "1 in a millions" to the code is bad for everyone.

And I'm still not going to make Grandma move her freezer.


----------



## ICE

This is the drain for a clothes washer that is located in a detached garage.




Coming out of the garage:




Entering the house:




I was there to inspect an electric service upgrade.  I was tempted to tell the owner that ABS can't be exposed to the Sun.


----------



## ICE

The job is a TI changing from medical offices to business offices.  The inspection request stated "T-Bar".  That means the grid and everything that is above the grid such as electrical, duct and plumbing.

The tiles are installed so I can't do an inspection.  When I asked why the tiles were installed I was told they had to do that in order to keep the grid from distorting.  Apparently, the tiles stiffen things up.








The next two pictures are from an area where new T-Bar was not installed.


----------



## conarb

Pcinspector1 said:


> I have to confess, I doctored that list a bit, don't want anyone to get hot and bothered by it!



PC, somebody better call our Tiger, I hear he's booking vibrator inspections as we speak, of course Mark Handler is salvating at the prospect of condemning all grab bars he's currently passing to comply with the 18" turnup.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Awh...conarbs having a good day!

I'd rather to be an Hawaiian Tropic bikini inspector myself. Low pay but good benefits, I think.


----------



## conarb

Pcinspector1 said:


> Awh...conarbs having a good day!
> 
> I'd rather to be an Hawaiian Tropic bikini inspector myself. Low pay but good benefits, I think.


They say some people work for money, others work for power, I'll take the money myself.


----------



## ICE

The permit is an electrical service upgrade.  There was plenty wrong at the first inspection.  The first picture is the water valve at the main line.  The contractor did not bond at the main..  There was only one ground rod and the enclosure was mounted over a hole in the stucco with cable leaving the back.  Other mistakes resulted in about eight corrections.




An improvement:




Here is the GEC secured to the front wall:




Here's the drywall screws that he used to secure the GEC:




The owner mentioned that the contractor was quite angry with the first list of corrections and he lives far away.  Poor guy needs to tune up his act if he's gonna take it on the road.


----------



## ICE

These are parking-lot light pole foundations.  The hole is 8' deep and there's another 3' of 24" diameter tube.  The plan is to fill the hole and tube with concrete.....then cut the wires that suspend the re-bar cage.  Now the anchor bolts will be pushed into the wet concrete.  The reason for this is that the template that holds the anchor bolts pretty much covers the hole.  The anchor bolts are 48" long and 1.25" diameter.  The only plans available were on an ipad screen.  No stamp.  The anchor bolts in the ipad plan are 12" long with unknown diameter.

The anchor bolts might be left over from a CalTrans job.  I think that I'll say yes and then show up for the pour.












I got through to them:


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> These are parking-lot light pole foundations.  The hole is 8' deep and there's another 3' of 24" diameter tube.  The plan is to fill the hole and tube with concrete.....then cut the wires that suspend the re-bar cage.  Now the anchor bolts will be pushed into the wet concrete.  The reason fof this is that the template that holds the anchor bolts pretty much covers the hole.  The anchor bolts are 48" long and 1" diameter.  The only plans available were on an ipad screen.  No stamp.  The anchor bolts in the ipad plan are 12" long with unknown diameter.
> 
> The anchor bolts might be left over from a CalTrans job.  I think that I'll say yes and then show up for the pour.


Take a video and post it if you can that should be amusing


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

Another crap strap job.  The last time that I said no to this material, I was overruled.   The manager that overruled me is gone so I took another shot at it.


----------



## steveray

Flex duct is soooo abused around here too....We usually make them provide the manufacturers instructions as that is all we can go by. I have seen some that are pretty good (steer towards the SMACNA stuff in IMC commentary)...and some that don't say much at all.


----------



## Pcinspector1

I've never seen flex duct split like that before, not sure that's allowed and would have a concern that the duct is over spanned? And then there's the reduced air flow due to the strapppin!

Does the energy code require the PEX to be insulated or is there a frost warning tonight?


----------



## Rick18071

Do you make them have ground bars even it they use the metal water pipe as ground?


----------



## steveray

E3608.1.1.2 Installation. Continuity of the grounding
path or the bonding connection to interior piping shall
not rely on water meters, filtering devices and similar
equipment. A metal underground water pipe shall be
supplemented by an additional electrode of a type specified
in Sections E3608.1.2 through E3608.1.6.


----------



## ICE

This was the first inspection.  The job is a bathroom under a patio cover associated with a swimming pool.  The panel is not made to be embedded in plaster so I said no.  I explained, several times, that a cabinet that fits between the studs or a cabinet that is installed after the stucco is the way to go.





That's not what they heard.   I gave the next inspection to another inspector.  That inspector has been there before and did in fact, approve the rough electrical.  I got a picture on my phone from that inspector because the contractor insists that I told him to do it this way.








This was never mentioned.  I explained the situation to two workers and then the hefe when he showed up.  How they got this from what I told them escapes me.....I think that I am done explaining stuff to this bunch.


----------



## my250r11

Must rain from the ground up there.... lmao


----------



## mark handler

my250r11 said:


> Must rain from the ground up there.... lmao


Picture upside down?


----------



## my250r11

The first pic seems the trees are right, but their flashing, if you can call it that is wrong


----------



## Pcinspector1

Instead of putting their name on it and the ASTM crap, they should put a picture on the tape showing how to install it!

The tape doesn't have much stick-em for moisture protection.

Looked like a pretty day in CA!, no smoke.


----------



## ICE

At the first inspection of this electrical service upgrade I couldn't get the dead-front out without bending it.  I suppose I could have used a screwdriver as a pry-bar and finessed it out but hey now, I'm not allowed to take anything apart.  So I wrote a correction asking the contractor to be there to open it up.  He removed the dead-front and left it like this for a week before I returned for a second inspection.




I have a question regarding the lateral service conductors.  They were too short so the contractor spliced with Polaris blocks.  I wonder if Edison will remove the Polaris blocks and use an inline splice.  One of the corrections that I wrote is the bending radius is too small but if Edison will remove this the correction is moot.


----------



## Pcinspector1

my250r11 said:


> Must rain from the ground up there.



One day it started *raining*, and it didn't quit for four months. We been through every kind of *rain* there is. Little bitty stingin' *rain*, and big ol' fat *rain*, *rain* that flew in sideways, and sometimes *rain* even seemed to come straight up from underneath...._Forrest Gump._


----------



## Rick18071

steveray said:


> E3608.1.1.2 Installation. Continuity of the grounding
> path or the bonding connection to interior piping shall
> not rely on water meters, filtering devices and similar
> equipment. A metal underground water pipe shall be
> supplemented by an additional electrode of a type specified
> in Sections E3608.1.2 through E3608.1.6.



Sorry, I could of sworn the photo shown an exterior pipe.


----------



## ICE

The yard has been built up.




Just a little too much.




They already had the dirt.




What they lack is a permit.


----------



## ICE

Here's another job without permits.  Well that was before they got caught.  Now that there's permits they requested an inspection.







I was met by a contractor.  Twenty-seven years in the business and he said that since he merely replaced the showers, he didn't think a permit was required.

This is in the back yard.  It looks like a garage but it is too close to the house to maneuver a car through the opening.




I was curious about the change in the floor elevation.  I found out that the higher slab is a cap over an abandoned swimming pool.  There is no permit for the building nor is there a permit to demo a pool.

It is common th encounter bootlegged construction. There is always a price to pay.  This one will be painful.


----------



## conarb

I vote for bonus points for a neat clean jobsite.


----------



## ICE

Tract work.


----------



## ICE

Licensed contractor leaves the panel apart and open with energized metal parts that can kill.




The previous service enclosure has been turned into a J-box.  He didn't bother to remove the stuff that an animal left in the cabinet.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Tract, drywall work, no points allotted!

Go into penalty phase, someone's gotta be deported or sent back to work release.


----------



## ICE

Each column is topped off with a container of water.  The containers are secured with wire.




The containers are there because the chickens were hopping up and out.  There's a lot of chickens.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> Each column is toped off with a container of water.  The containers are secured with wire.
> 
> The containers are there because the chickens were hopping up and out.  There's a lot of chickens.


Are Chickens permitted in this area or that a code violation also?


----------



## ICE

An unlimited number of chickens is allowed. Atrocious fences too.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Which came first the "chicken" or the "hacienda?"

Maybe the chickens are a existing non-conforming use?


_Which day of the week do chickens hate most?

Fry-day!_


----------



## ICE

The first inspection was for the service upgrade. It went from something to 225 amp.  The first trip resulted in about six corrections, one of which was to remove the lath.  That correction included "install ST62 strap across the ......"




I didn't pay much attention to the solar part of the project other than to say that the LB can't displace all of the plaster.




Apparently they are familiar with my inspections, not just because of the loop but also because they call the office and complain....a lot.









There's the ST62.  The code calls for eight #10 1.5" long on each side of the gash.  I ask for ten and seal the fireblock.  The top plate is a fireblock and the code states that the integrity of fireblocks be maintained.  I wish I had a stamp for that correction.  A gap this wide should have a substantial repair and an ST62 is not that.  While it may perform in tension it will bend easily in compression.

I didn't write a correction for the weak strap.  That would play too heavily in their complaint that I am the first to write such corrections.  Everybody from contractors, homeowners and my department are convinced that I write too many corrections.   They're not willing to pick the ones that I shouldn't have written.  Perhaps I should always give them a break such as, "OK you got too many.  Pick any correction and toss it out".

This company got hammered and once the lath is removed there's bound to be more.  It is typical of many of their jobs.  The owner was not there at either inspection so I haven't been able to see the water heater or smoke and CO alarms.

Once I see the alarms and point out that they are missing or installed wrong the owners become agitated and the solar guy says, "I have some on the truck.  Give me a minute to install them".   The upset owner wants me to hang around while the alarms are corrected.  If I have the time and it's likely to not be more that ten minutes I'll do that.  Now if it's a scatter brained bunch I'm gone. None of the contractors for any project deals with alarms before I show up.  Apparently there is no legal path that would put the responsibility for alarms on the contractor.


----------



## ICE

The job is an owner builder permit.  A scad of mistakes it was.  When I see these results I want to stop and tell them to hire a licensed electrician.  I can't do that.  I am supposed to explain the mistakes and provide a correct way to do the work.  That could pan out if I were standing next to them as the work is performed.











The root cause for this is a lack of respect for the electrical trade.  With few exceptions I find the service panel wide open with the deadfront removed and the worker out front in a vehicle.  From Home Depot crews to legitimate, longtime electrical contractors, there is no respect. I used to fight this with a resolve to stop it.  The practice then became codified as acceptable.  Such lack of respect for electricity is dangerous.  Knowing that it legal is akin to finding out that Disney has alligators in the wading pond.  The possibilities are endless..


----------



## ICE

For some reason, the valley collects debris and holds it until it decomposes.  The tree isn’t directly over the house. It must be air currents.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Rick18071

I know CA has a lot of regulations on saving water but this is ridiculous.


----------



## mtlogcabin

ICE said:


> For some reason, the valley collects debris and holds it until it decomposes. The tree isn’t directly over the house. It must be air currents.


 If you had minimum 4/12 pitch metal roofs and some rain every now and then it would not collect like that


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


>



Dryer vent through a garage has to be hard pipe, is that flex attached to galvanized pipe? I don't believe the WH seismic straps are installed properly, not required here, but still might work when you have a _shaker!_


----------



## ICE

Four bedrooms and there is a receptacle behind every door.  They did this because of a correction that stated: "No wall space 2" or greater in width shall be more than 6' away from a receptacle".  I write that correction at the beginning of any job where that code would apply.  I also include kitchen counter layout if it applies.

I wouldn't expect to find a receptacle behind a door.

But hey now, I had breakfast with a couple of inspectors this morning and they chastised me for being lax.  The receptacle is there for a vacuum cleaner.   Well that’s what they said and it was two against one so I stand corrected.


----------



## ICE

The first one was found during a re-roof inspection so I sent pictures to Edison.  The second job will require Edison to energize the service upgrade so there is no need to alert Edison.


----------



## ICE

Three times this week I encountered too many wires in a raceway.  This picture is from the second inspection.  Nothing changed because the "Company engineer verified that the conduit is not too small for 32 wires".  The breakers aren't arc fault because, "That won't work with shared neutrals."





This contractor did make a change or two.  All of the circuits now have arc fault protection.....whether they need it or not.
Originally there was 16 current carrying conductors in a raceway.  Now it's 6 and ten in two raceways.  The six are all 12awg and the ten are all 14awg.  This is after I explained the concept at the first inspection.





This job has an additional element of heat.  22 conductors.






Same day different job. Every time that I write the correction I have to spend time explaining the code.  This time the contractor played dumb for the longest time.  He kept going back to the size of the conduit.  Then five minutes into it he says, "Which temperature column can I use?" So he was playing me like a cheap guitar the entire time.


----------



## ICE

This contractor has been given a correction to seal top plate penetrations on several inspections.  They tried to comply with this job as you can see the gray stuff around the raceways.  When I asked about the cable I was told that the cable is "existing" and as such, it is not the contractors responsibility to seal that penetration.


----------



## ICE

This one is funny.  I pulled up to a Mechanical inspection.  The permit stated "split system" so I surmised that it's what you see on the front of the house.  I commenced writing corrections....fourteen corrections.  I even asked for a licensed electrical contractor to obtain an electrical permit.

Then I knocked on the front door.  A woman that does not speak English opened the door and then shut the door.  I could hear her speaking in Spanish so I waited for a bit and the door opened again.  She held a phone and the Asian lady on the the other end explained that the woman in front of me is the housekeeper.  She said that the A/C is in the backyard and the furnace is in the attic.  I asked about the mini-splits and was told that they are a year old and just didn't do the job of cooling the house so they had a central system installed.





The wiring method is drop cord in conduit.  With a fused neutral.




Apparently they only had three fuses so this one is done differently.


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for under-slab plumbing.  There is no head test......but it is filled with air.




A lot of air.


----------



## ICE

This is the first time that I have found a blue room on a re-roof.  The roofer hauls it from job to job.

I have to admit that contractors that provide one get just a bit more respect.


----------



## ICE

This is in the common area of a condo complex of around 120 condos.  Imagine this thing scorching hot right next to the sidewalk that leads to the carports.


----------



## MtnArch

ICE said:


> This is the first time that I have found a blue room on a re-roof.  The roofer hauls it from job to job.
> 
> I have to admit that contractors that provide one get just a bit more respect.



Around here most GC's provide them - even when they're only laying pavers in a small backyard!


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> The inspection was for under-slab plumbing.  There is no head test......but it is filled with air.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of air.



We don't test with air anymore here, when the sap releases that fernco type cap, better not have his face over it!

2018 I-code reduced the head test pipe from 10-ft to 5-ft so you don't fall off your ladder.


----------



## ICE

The job is a TI for a Chinese restaurant.  The vegetables are decoration.  I wonder if the Health Dept. will have a problem with this.   I wonder if I'm going to have a problem with this.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> We don't test with air anymore here, when the sap releases that fernco type cap, better not have his face over it!
> 
> 2018 I-code reduced the head test pipe from 10-ft to 5-ft so you don't fall off your ladder.


Air test on plastic pipe is not allowed here.


----------



## JCraver

ICE said:


> The job is a TI for a Chinese restaurant.  The vegetables are decoration.  I wonder if the Health Dept. will have a problem with this.   I wonder if I'm going to have a problem with this.




You don't have gourds in California?  Those things were _everywhere_ here in the Midwest when I was a kid - don't see as many nowadays, but I don't hang out in the same places I did when I was a kid, either.

If they're dried and kept inside they'll last forever.  I remember dozens of them in my older family members' houses - I'm certain some were decades old.  All painted up and "artsy".  On the practical side, Grandpa always had a couple wired to fence posts as bird houses, too.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Looks like any decoration you would see in a bar or restaurant, but it's interesting. 

A bar in Kansas City has several 100 or more football helmets hanging from the ceiling with other sporting stuff, kinda cool, not sure if it's got those sprinkler thingy's or not? It's kinda of a shrine.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> I wonder if the Health Dept. will have a problem with this.



There will be dust all over them in a year, Health Department wouldn't care about dust. HD more concerned with what shelf the eggs are placed on. No see no sprinkler heads in your photo.


----------



## ICE

This mistake undoubtedly occurred at the end of the project.




I would be surprised to if they didn't know that they must start at the beginning to fix this mistake.




That indicates that they just gave up.


----------



## jar546

Water in the attic is not affected by gravity.  I'm surprised you don't know that by now.


----------



## TheCommish

With all that flex duct, they could raise the unit  up and the pan to allow gravity to work properly


----------



## ICE

TheCommish said:


> With all that flex duct, they could raise the unit  up and the pan to allow gravity to work properly


Yes Sir, and they will.


----------



## ICE

JCraver said:


> You don't have gourds in California?  Those things were _everywhere_ here in the Midwest when I was a kid - don't see as many nowadays, but I don't hang out in the same places I did when I was a kid, either.
> 
> If they're dried and kept inside they'll last forever.  I remember dozens of them in my older family members' houses - I'm certain some were decades old.  All painted up and "artsy".  On the practical side, Grandpa always had a couple wired to fence posts as bird houses, too.


I don't know if they are dried and lightweight.  I was told that in times past, and perhaps today as well, the gourds were/are used to store alcoholic beverages.  I have had a Chinese wine that is delicious.   This being a Chinese restaurant, the patrons will understand.


----------



## ICE

The job is an attempt to legalize an enclosed patio cover that was not permitted or inspected.




The vent pops out under another illegal patio cover that will be legalized.


----------



## steveray

jar546 said:


> Water in the attic is not affected by gravity. I'm surprised you don't know that by now.



I thought it was just so hot in the Cali attics that it turns to steam and had to be pitched up?


----------



## JCraver

ICE said:


> The job is an attempt to legalize an enclosed patio cover that was not permitted or inspected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The vent pops out under another illegal patio cover that will be legalized.




I might fail it just for that horrible crown they didn't know how to install...


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> This mistake undoubtedly occurred at the end of the project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would be surprised to if they didn't know that they must start at the beginning to fix this mistake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That indicates that they just gave up.


 Yep, last thing they did so they could get back to the shop or it's overtime.

Has the pan been sealed at the corners?

The absolute worse place to put a furnace or air conditioner is in the attic. I thought California was the leader in energy saving and now requiring solar on all new house construction.

Bring the drain down through the ceiling joist and take to an air gap, wait I'm not suppose to design it, I'm just suppose to inspect it.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> The job is an attempt to legalize an enclosed patio cover that was not permitted or inspected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The vent pops out under another illegal patio cover that will be legalized.



ICE, is that a gas or electric heater? Flue clearances?


----------



## Mech

In #2955, are those plants, parrots, and snake sitting on a grille that is now under a roof?


----------



## ICE

Mech said:


> In #2955, are those plants, parrots, and snake sitting on a grille that is now under a roof?


Three snakes.


----------



## ICE

The job is an electrical service upgrade.  We ask for a jumper at the water heater from the cold to hot to gas pipes.  This is done to ensure that the hot water pipe and the gas pipe are bonded.  Yes I know that the gas pipe can be legitimately bonded by virtue of an electrified gas appliance such as a furnace.  As Tommy, the oldest Henderson boy says, "Here's the thing about that".  We don't have the time nor inclination to determine what the source of heat may be.  It is so much easier to get another three feet of wire and a clamp because they will be placing a jumper from the cold pipe to the hot pipe no matter what.

This is one of two water heaters at this residence.  The other water heater has the correct configuration of jumper.




I wrote a correction to place the jumper on this water heater.  I suspect that the workmen that installed the service panel may not have known about the existence of the second water heater.  If they were aware of the second water heater they must have thought that I would not find it.  In any event, the jumper was installed.

There is two clamps on the gas pipe and one clamp on the T&P drain pipe.


----------



## ICE

The job is an electrical service upgrade with PV.  I wrote a correction regarding the fitting being too small and the cable sheath not making it 1/4" into the cabinet.




I am not supposed to add corrections that I spot from looking at pictures.  Well I didn't see the skinned wire while I was performing the inspection.




Since they will be doing work installing another fitting and moving the cable I guess that I can wait for the followup inspection to write that correction.... that seems inappropriate to me.....but hey now, what do I know about tactics.  Is it that I should not write the correction....ever....because I missed it the first time?


----------



## ICE

A licensed contractor has done a lot of work on this house.  It might be a flipper.  Yesterday was the only time that I have been there.  The inspection was for the water heater.




I wanted to see inside the el. service cabinet but, alas and alack, it's been approved already.


----------



## ICE

The job is an electrical service upgrade and PV.  It is not unusual that nobody is there to meet me.




I find notes.




If the occupant happens to be home I am sometimes told, "He went to Home Depot.  He should be back soon.  He left everything open."

Yesterday I made the sixth inspection for a PV only job.  I was stood up on the first three trips.

On the fourth inspection I wrote corrections and the occupant was not home so I couldn't get in to verify the smoke and co alarms.

At the fifth inspection, corrections were not done.  But as a bonus, the occupant was home so I could get the alarms out of the way....But hold on.....

When I asked the kid that represents the contractor if the owner was there he said yes. Then he said, "Are smoke detectors required in bedrooms?  There aren't any in the bedrooms.  Most inspectors will pass it anyway if I promise to go to Home Depot and get smoke detectors."

On the sixth inspection I walked down the long driveway.  There were several cars with nobody in them, or so I thought.  I went to the door and the lady that lives there let me in.  She does not speak English but she knew why I was there and led me to the hallway and bedrooms.  Alarms were installed....wrong.  I wrote a correction explaining how to install the errant alarms and left the way I came.

It is exasperating considering that I gave the worker a sheet of paper with a drawing and explanation of how to install the alarms.  We staple that sheet to the permit.  I stuck several on the gate whenever I was stood up at the first three inspections.  That sheet arrives with the alarms.

Consider the irony....they are entrusted to install PV....service upgrades.....but can't figure out how to install smoke alarms.  Did I say exasperating?  I think I meant ******* dumbfounded.....Ya that's it.

So now I'm a hundred feet away, walking down that long driveway when I hear, "Hey! I'm here".  It was the worker and apparently he was asleep in one of the cars.......  He wants to start the inspection.

I average a couple PV inspections per day.  There's always at least one and sometimes five.  I get stood up a lot.  The mistakes are always numerous.  Toss in a service upgrade and the mistakes become voluminous.

The truth be told, it's shocking what goes on out there.  Few people are aware of just how bad it is and few of them bother to care.  That is a sad reality that doesn't need to exist.  It is not too difficult to get it done right.  If only the jurisdictions had the will to see it through.


----------



## ICE

A lot of work was done in remodeling this house.  All of it without permits or inspections.  The attic access is 12"x12".  I could only get pictures and wouldn't you know it, they used plumber's tape to suspend the HVAC duct.


----------



## Rick18071

Don't you charge for reinspections?


----------



## ICE

Rick18071 said:


> Don't you charge for reinspections?


I can ask for a one hour inspection fee.  It pretty much assures me that they will complain....I will be labeled rude.....obnoxious and disrespectful. Hardly worth the $110.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> I can ask for a one hour inspection fee. It pretty much assures me that they will complain....I will be labeled rude.....obnoxious and disrespectful. Hardly worth the $110.



And I thought that was just me, I've been called in twice on the rude one! Good to know I'm doing my job and they just got caught not doing theirs!


----------



## linnrg

ICE,
I am curious, with all of the technology you may have can you email or text the actual owner/applicant that the inspection failed and a re-inspection fee will be applied for each extra inspections?  Me thinks if the Owners find out they are failing they may seek damages or delays from the contractors.  Oh and by the way include in it a note to call a certain phone number that when answered says - please be patient your call will be answered in the order it was received - you are caller number 99 and your approximate wait time is 8 hours and 45 minutes!

With all of the stuff your warm climate area puts into an attic I am surprised to hear of such a small access. Do you allow the removal of a properly sized gable end vent for the attic access?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> And I thought that was just me, I've been called in twice on the rude one! Good to know I'm doing my job and they just got caught not doing theirs!


Twice!!!!!  That would be a good day for me. LOL Oh my gosh, he said twice.  Seriously,  it's in the hundreds for me.

I have been at it for a long time.  Take a look at my picture.  That screams rude.  I don't have to say anything.  

A contractor complained that he didn't like the way I walk.  90% of the time it's all about the corrections....they got too many....they never get any....they got corrections that they have never gotten before....they don't understand the corrections.  So there they sit all flummoxed....thinking, "I know, we'll say that he was rude and get a different inspector.

The last 10% were such jerks that all I had left in me was rude.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> A lot of work was done in remodeling this house.



What a mess!


----------



## Rick18071

I use reinspection fees on contractors that constantly fail. It seems to work well.

Had a developer that would have 4 houses ready for roughs at a time, but they wouldn't really be ready. Made them pay a reinspection for building, plumbing, mechanical and electrical for 4 houses that weren't ready one day. After that they were always ready.


----------



## ICE

This detail is called out on the foundation plan for a kitchen/dining room addition.  There is no garage being built.  The designer hit the wrong button.





So they formed it with the curb.  I tried to convince them that this is not a good idea but contractors are loathe to do work over.


----------



## JCraver

The wife is going to be pissed when she realizes she has a curb in her kitchen.....


----------



## ICE

JCraver said:


> The wife is going to be pissed when she realizes she has a curb in her kitchen.....


They may frame the walls with 2”x6”.  That will hide the curb.  Baseboard can be glued.  Thresholds will need special attention.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> This detail is called out on the foundation plan for a kitchen/dining room addition.  There is no garage being built.  The designer hit the wrong button.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So they formed it with the curb.  I tried to convince them that this is not a good idea but contractors are loathe to do work over.


 I noticed that the "Man who draws" shows the 6-mil poly extending down the inside part of the footing, I have never seen that done here, usually it stops at the wall above gravel instead of sand here.


----------



## conarb

Pcinspector1 said:


> I noticed that the "Man who draws" shows the 6-mil poly extending down the inside part of the footing, I have never seen that done here, usually it stops at the wall above gravel instead of sand here.



That's been a bone of contention for some years around here, as a practical matter placing the concrete always scatters the sand, as a theoretical matter the sand is supposed to hold moisture and release it back into the slab gradually for more even drying, others say it's a waste.  BTW, I've never seen the poly turned down either, by the time we are done pouring it's all torn up anyway.


----------



## mtlogcabin

Back in the early 90's the 6-mil poly went under the footings and came up the on the inside of the form board. The poly kept the sand in Fl from quickly pulling the moisture out of the concrete. We dealt with "Hot Weather" so retaining moisture in the concrete was a real concern on slabs


----------



## JCraver

Nobody pours on sand here anymore.  All the pads that got poured ~20 years ago and more on sand are all failing, and when you bust them up the sand is gone and all that's left is a big void.  Water gets under there and freezes = replacing the pad. 

I can't believe anybody ever thought that was a good idea anyway.


----------



## conarb

mtlogcabin said:


> Back in the early 90's the 6-mil poly went under the footings and came up the on the inside of the form board. The poly kept the sand in Fl from quickly pulling the moisture out of the concrete. We dealt with "Hot Weather" so retaining moisture in the concrete was a real concern on slabs


So is the sand there to supposedly retain moisture in the concrete or to get the moisture out of the concrete?  I get differing answers from architects and engineers.


----------



## mtlogcabin

This is how we did it in Florida in the 90's






This is why you do not put sand between poly and concrete slabs

https://buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-003-concrete-floor-problems

hope the link works


----------



## Pcinspector1

3/4-inch clean gravel would give you some voids below the slab. Some here don't want to use the poly.

But like conarb stated, the poly does get a few holes and rips.


----------



## ICE

We have been placing sand on the dirt.....then Visqueen on the sand.....then sand on the Visqueen......for decades.....without any adverse consequences that I am aware of.  Other places, like Florida for example, have different conditions and perhaps our method is not appropriate there.


----------



## JCraver

We're predominately clay subsoil here.  Scrape off the sod, place sand, and pour a pad, then remove pad in 3+ years and all the sand is gone.  The clay just eats it, and then you're left with voids under your concrete.  99.9% of pads I see now are poured on top of CA6.


----------



## rogerpa

The concept of crushed aggregate topped by sand over poly was promoted by ACI over 20 years ago to prevent/reduce edge curl in concrete slab on grade floors due to uneven moisture dissipation.


----------



## ICE

That is a path to a PV array that is located on the other side of the roof.  It was provided because there's no access on the other side....I can't see the array from the other side.  After 1:00 pm the array will be shaded.


----------



## ICE

The contractor has the appearance of success.  Nice truck outfitted with a bunch of tools and ladders....emblazoned with name and address.

He was all excited to see me.  The work was "done".  He's never been given the corrections that I gave him.  He was incredulous about starting over.


----------



## jwilly3879

Probably proud of the nice job he did.


----------



## ICE

According to the contractor he is only responsible for the "electrical" work.  Fixing the stucco is on the owner.  Now it becomes a conflict between the contractor and the owner.  He may have met his obligation in the contract but the corrections belong to him. 

Doing the work over is expensive.  He could be doing it wrong somewhere else for good money instead of doing this job a second time for free.  But like I indicated earlier, this contractor is slick.  The slick ones have a way of using corrections to sell up.


----------



## e hilton

Did you see the news article about the 6 YO girl who was badly shocked at the MGM casino in Maryland?  Cause was bad electrical work. The third party inspector says he was pressured into approving bad work.
FYI ... in northern Va, Md and DC it is typical for the owner to hire a third party inspector.  The local jurisdiction will rarely send an inspector to the site, except the fire marshall always shows up for final  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...a2ef74bd6d6_story.html?utm_term=.9484b7e5dbb7


----------



## ICE

The job is a re-roof.  There is a ladder but I seldom, if ever, walk on a tile roof.




The owner pointed out what appears to be a missing tile.




So I ventured beyond the ladder and found a paper saddle.  It's almost difficult to believe that a licensed contractor would do this.

\
	

		
			
		

		
	




And now I'm thinking that I should be walking on tile roofs.


----------



## Pcinspector1

That's a good catch, I admit, I have never done a tile roof inspection, Should the seams of the tiles be offset like an asphalt shingled roof? Your second pic looks like the tile overlap is over the next course of tile and that overlap. Just asking?


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> The job is a re-roof.  There is a ladder but I seldom, if ever, walk on a tile roof.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The owner pointed out what appears to be a missing tile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I ventured beyond the ladder and found a paper saddle.  It's almost difficult to believe that a licensed contractor would do this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now I'm thinking that I should be walking on tile roofs.



That's a "crickett", I prefer to do them in copper but I don't think there is a code requirement, you walk on tile roofs you pay for broken tiles, that appears to be lightweight tile that breaks easily.


----------



## ICE

The job is an addition.




By definition, an addition is attached and so is this .....just not the way one would expect.




At the foundation inspection I tried to convince them that this will be quite odd.  As it turns out, that's the look they were going for.....quite odd that is.


----------



## ICE

Ten minutes into the inspection the contractor asked me what an anchor bolt is.   I pointed to an anchor bolt and said, "It's these things Sir, all of these things that are here under Edison's distribution lines".


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> That's a "crickett", I prefer to do them in copper but I don't think there is a code requirement, you walk on tile roofs you pay for broken tiles, that appears to be lightweight tile that breaks easily.


It's a cricket with a paper saddle.  It will be a cricket with a sheet metal saddle.  I can't say that I've seen any made from copper.  The next time that I have to write the correction I'll ask for tungsten and see what happens....they'll probably be happy to get a copper saddle after that.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Curious how you attach a solar array to a tile roof if you can't work on them, how you gonna install them and do the inspection? I missing something here.


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> It's a cricket with a paper saddle.  It will be a cricket with a sheet metal saddle.  I can't say that I've seen any made from copper.  The next time that I have to write the correction I'll ask for tungsten and see what happens....they'll probably be happy to get a copper saddle after that.


Tiger:

I have to apologize to you, apparently they are using the words interchangeably now,  in the old days if it was built from metal it was a saddle, if built with wood by the carpenters it was a cricket.  *if you look at these two pictures* the bottom one would have a sheetmetal saddle all the way around it, the top one has a cricket.  

On new construction Title 24 is requiring a 90# white granular cap sheet under all tile to "reflect" the sunlight back to the heavens, you can thank Obama's Steven Chu for this when he tried to require all roofs be painted white, so that "unprotected" area on top of the cricket would be protected by #90, I still say you can't cite a code section saying you have to protect the roofing paper.



			
				PC inspector said:
			
		

> Curious how you attach a solar array to a tile roof if you can't work on them, how you gonna install them and do the inspection? I missing something here.



They haven't figured that out yet, they installed solar panels on a tile roof down the street a few years ago, last year they pulled them all up and hot mopped under them.   I have the same tile on my own home and won't walk on them, I have two roofers who have men I will let walk on them, you have to step on exactly the right spot, and even though I know where it is I always end up breaking a few tile.


----------



## Pcinspector1

I though Jerry Brown and the legislators passed a law, your all gonna have solar in CA.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Curious how you attach a solar array to a tile roof if you can't work on them, how you gonna install them and do the inspection? I missing something here.


Most solar companies have racking that will work with tile roof coverings.  It involves specialized hooks or cutting a hole through a tile.  Here lately the method preferred by many is to remove the tiles that will be under the array and place an asphalt roof.  The tiles are then installed around the perimeter of the array.  Most of the time I can't see any of it without walking on tile and I won't do that for more reasons than just breaking the tiles.  Then if there is a way to see it, there's not much to see.

That leaves me at a disadvantage.  I must rely on pictures on a cell phone.  Long ago we did an in-progress inspection.  I found plenty of corrections.  Then the state took away our right to perform more than one inspection....naturally that one inspection is the final inspection.....when we can't see much of anything.


----------



## Rick18071

no roofs like that here. How do they do repairs? with a cherry picker?


----------



## ADAguy

ICE said:


> Not only does it look like Hell, it would have been easier to replace the shingles.  So what if the color is off a little bit.


Ice,

Your killing me with these! Hee! Hee! Can't catch my breath and to think we get paid to see these.

Do they happen at night under a full moon?


----------



## ADAguy

ICE said:


> Earth's rotation is more than these vents can handle.


Maybe they need a wind mill to capture all that air?


----------



## ADAguy

ICE said:


> It goes both ways.  There are plumbers out there that will not install anything that's not on the original water heater.  If there is no T&P drain pipe on the existing W/H, then they leave it off the new one.  When I write it up, it becomes an extra.  Smitty pans are a favorite because that's a lot of work.  Many times I have a H/O that asks me if it was proper for the contractor to charge them to do the corrections.  I want to say, "Well somebody has to pay for his education."
> 
> Another statement I hear from owners is that the contractor claims that I am asking for things not required by the code so he will not pay for it.  That's not true.....Well not often anyway.    (That's for you fatboy.)



As usual they don't have "current" copies of the code in their trucks and don't have a continuing ed requirement for their renewals like some of us do.


----------



## ADAguy

ICE said:


> 4-6-12
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in the jungle.  It was 8:02 this Friday when the man called.  He wanted the inspector that left a notice on his door the previous day.  The notice was regarding an illegal garage conversion and that inspector had this day off.  I took down his name, address and phone number and told him that the inspector would call him on Monday.
> 
> He didn't like that idea and said that he wanted me to deal with him now, as in right now.  I explained that I already had a days worth of work planned and the other inspector does most of the code enforcement work.  He shouted, "That's not good enough"......"I called now and I want a resolution now."  I told him that I could not drop what I was doing and rush right over just because he wants that.  He shouted that I am being sarcastic and as a city employee, I am not allowed to be sarcastic.   As the tirade continued, I informed him that I don't work for a city and ended the call.
> 
> There he was bellowing the rules of my employment as he, my employer, sees them.  What he doesn't know is that my employer knowingly sends a Tiger to herd rabbits.....it's expected that some fur will fly.
> 
> The rodent bought the property nine months ago and obviously he isn't a good fit with the neighborhood.  It takes a certain level of rancor to spur a neighbor into calling the building dept. and quite often the crux of the matter has nothing to do with a code violation.
> 
> When that is the case,  I swoop in and the perceived duty is to exact revenge for an unknown, unrelated offense.  The complaint may be about a garage conversion and the matter could be anything from a teenage boy leering at a teenage girl to taking up too many parking spaces on the street.  Both sides see my involvement for what it is, superior brinkmanship.  The unintended consequences can be anything from negligible to catastrophic yet they drop the bomb not knowing if it's a dud or a weapon of mass destruction.



No different then when a group home or Air B N B moves into a neighborhood unannounced (smiling).


----------



## ADAguy

ICE said:


> 4-11-12
> 
> This is a variation of the "I found it that way" slog through life, mutt work.  The job is a furnace replacement.....the A/C coil is existing.  The primary and secondary condensate drains are tied together at the unit and there is a sag in the drain pipe.  I asked the technician if he noticed the sag and he said that the drain pipe is not part of his scope of work.  I revised the scope of work to include the sag in the drain pipe.
> 
> Then I gave him a doozy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is no small feat to install a furnace in an attic yet it didn't occur to them to secure the vent.



Not a California installation?


----------



## ICE

ADAguy said:


> Not a California installation?


Why do you ask that question?


----------



## ICE

With a roll of paper towels.




Without the roll of paper towels.




You don't suppose that he was trying to fool me do you?




He did this twice on the same building.  He was shouting at me as I left the scene of the crime.


----------



## jar546

Oh such a nice story.  At that point, every single inspection for this contractor would be meticulous as hell because the trust level is now in the negative and he will be trying to get even with you.    Is that a subfeed?  Looking for the bonding screw........don't see one.  Why the main disconnect on the panel?


----------



## Rick18071

They were just trying to be nice and give you something to clean your hands before you write up the failed report.


----------



## Pcinspector1

jar546 said:


> Is that a subfeed?


----------



## ICE

This is a development near my home.  I went nosing around on Saturday.  The subject of the picture is the garage slab.




There's four three inch pipes sticking out of the floor....for what, I don't know.  One might be a cleanout but the other three??


----------



## Msradell

Really strange and they're located so they would be between 2 vehicles, they look like they are about in the middle of 1 of the 2 bays.  It will be interesting to see what they end up being, hope you are putting in keeping us informed.


----------



## jeffc

Perhaps the house will be used as a model home and the pipes are for a barrier free bathroom.


----------



## Mech

What is the purpose of the blue flexible hoses?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Could the pipes be covering copper lines to trick the copper pirates? Back-flow devises maybe?

Got me scratching!


----------



## ADAguy

"Think" Tesla charger!


----------



## Pcinspector1

Suspended garage slab with venting for below?

Whats odd is they maybe in the vehicle tracks.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Whats up with that road, is that a city approved road with now sidewalks or curbing?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Whats up with that road, is that a city approved road with now sidewalks or curbing?


Bike path.


----------



## twoply

As a trainee electrical inspector, I ask what is wrong with this ground connection? 
Thanks in advance!



ICE said:


>


----------



## Rick18071

wire is on wrong side of acorn. Should not be under bolt


----------



## Pcinspector1

My guess is that the grounding electrode conductor (GEC) is under the set screw which should be making contact with the ground rod. The GEC should be on the other side of the clamp and bent over. Reason I think is that the GEC could loosen up the way its done in the photo under the set screw, IMO.


----------



## ICE

Add to what rick said: Every end of the armor that protects the GEG shall be bonded.  The wrong clamp has been installed.  The armor is too short to reach a proper clamp.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Is this the correct clamp to use?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Is this the correct clamp to use?


It would require two.  There is another version that has a bonding strap on both sides.


----------



## ICE

The job is a furnace and A/C replacement.  A well known contractor.  You can bet that he's gonna say, "That's the way it was"


----------



## ICE

There's an elementary school across the street.  I was in a hurry so I didn't stop.  I should have time to knock it over tomorrow.


----------



## ICE

The job is a heat pump on the roof of a house.....All I saw was the top of it. The lady that met me has a story to tell.  The work was done several years ago without a permit.  The heat pump has been unreliable and several workmen have pointed out issues to her.  Apparently the condensate drained to a gutter that becomes clogged with leaves so it runs tea colored water on the wall.  The support is rotted wood. The contractor lied because not only is he not a Trane specialist, Trane has never heard of him.

So another company has obtained a permit and the lady met me for the inspection.  I should mention that English is her third language.....after the first ten minutes I started to decipher what she was saying.

Then she said that she wanted me here because I am an expert.  She told me that her new contractor left a ladder for me to get on the roof.




She was quite upset when I told her that I would not use that ladder to access the roof.  Her lip curled when she asked me if this means another appointment.  Then she asked me if I would be the one to come next time because it takes a long time to tell her story and she doesn't want to do it a second time.


----------



## ICE




----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


>


Is that the special green epoxy that solves all problems?
I have been on the other side of that situation, where we had to abandon a properly embedded anchor bolt and drill in a new one.  The inspector required a pull test to a certain load to prove it was acceptable.


----------



## classicT

ICE said:


>



Life is easier when the right system is used. 

https://www.strongtie.com/foundatio...nchors/urfp-frfp_productgroup_wcc/p/urfp.frfp


----------



## ICE




----------



## steveray

They are just making sure it has enough movement for your high seismic zone...


----------



## e hilton

I can understand not taking the time to cut the form boards tight to the steps, but that's a bit excessive.  Going to be fun trying to control the seepage, especially with the too-wet mix they are sure to pour.  Ice ... is there any control over the concrete psi?   Anything in the code, or do you let them pour whats spec'd on the plans?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> I can understand not taking the time to cut the form boards tight to the steps, but that's a bit excessive.  Going to be fun trying to control the seepage, especially with the too-wet mix they are sure to pour.  Ice ... is there any control over the concrete psi?   Anything in the code, or do you let them pour whats spec'd on the plans?



Table R402.4 calls for a minimum 2500psi.


----------



## ICE

The job is a new furnace and A/c condenser.  The vent is new up to the Y.












It was the first sunny day in eons here in dreary So Cal.  The house is on a hilly street....hilly is a silly word.  The owner is a middle aged Korean lady.  She answered the door with a can of 7-Up in one hand and a bottle of Kirkland water in the other.  I remember that I wondered if I have seen her at Costco.  I took the water before she offered it.  I know, a bit impulsive huh.

Her son was there and on crutches.  He was wearing a jersey and had a football to go with a football injury.  They have not one, not two but three dogs and they look like triplets.  The one called Peter was so excited he peed.  Been like that ever since they brought him home.  There's another one that must be named barf but that's not important here.

I was met with astonishment at the prospect of entering bedrooms to inspect the smoke alarms.  So much so that I couldn't help but think that they are hiding some evil thing.  There' more to tell but too much information might cloud the topic of the thread.

Well what corrections do you see here?
I'll start it off with: There is no bollard per:
507.13.1 Physical Damage. Appliances installed in garages, warehouses, or other areas subject to mechanical damage shall be guarded against such damage by being installed behind protective barriers or by being elevated or located out of the normal path of vehicles.

Of course you folks can't see that in the picture so I helped you out 'cause I reckon you'd never get that one....alrighty then, without paying too much attention to the details give it a go.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Isn't that ACPRO tape for flex duct? UL 181.B-FX or should it be UL-181A-P? for metal? 

Just curious if anybody checks the sealing tapes. I saw a job the other day that had no markings so I did a little detective work. Seems the HVAC dudes use what ever the boss buys on the cheap.


----------



## Rick18071

ICE said:


> The job is a furnace and A/C replacement.  A well known contractor.  You can bet that he's gonna say, "That's the way it was"


My conpany was contracted to do mechanical inspection a jurisdiction. I do electrical inspections elsewhere. A new heat pump was set like this in front of a swimming pool timer like this. I didn't like it but I could only recommend to the owner to have it changed but I passed the mechanical inspection.


----------



## ICE

The HVAC contractor had this made because there isn't enough clearance from the top to the building.


----------



## Msradell

I've never seen a baffle like that on top of an outside unit. I also don't ever recall seeing anything in the code that allows it! Has anybody ever seen this before and is it acceptable?


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> The HVAC contractor had this made because there isn't enough clearance from the top to the building.



Looks like a neat job to me, what code section does it violate?


----------



## ICE

Well it certainly voids the listing and probably any factory warranty.  The listing is my territory and I have nothing to say about the warranty.  Simply voiding the listing isn't sufficient to cite this.  I have seen many condensers in tighter confines than this that have been operating for years.  The additional resistance to airflow that this creates does not concern me.  

I posted the pictures just because it is unique.


----------



## ICE

I was there to inspect a PV system.  The A/C condenser looks to be a few years old.  The condensate drain could be primary or secondary.  My guess is primary.


----------



## conarb

> I was there to inspect a PV system.



It appears to be a quality home, sand finish stucco instead of cheap texture, real wood casement windows, and real tile on the roof draining into copper gutters, now don't tell us that they fugged it all up with solar panels on that tile?


----------



## ICE

The arrays are on a smaller two story that is identical to the main house.  I am constantly amazed at the tile roofs that solar companies abuse.


----------



## ICE

As soon as I was on the roof I said that valley is flat.




They insisted that since the bubble is not exactly centered, there is absolutely a slope.




I drove it home with a digital level.




The reality is that any slope is good enough.  My level would not register any slope.

_R908.1 General. Materials and methods of application used for re-covering or replacing an existing roof covering shall comply with the requirements of Chapter 9. 
Exceptions: 
1. Reroofing shall not be required to meet the minimum design slope requirement of one-quarter unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent slope) in Section R905 for roofs that provide positive roof drainage. _


----------



## Paul Sweet

re: post #3042 - I detailed baffles for outdoor units a couple times.  Most manufacturers had minimum clearances above units and recommendations for baffles where you couldn't get the needed clearance.  This was back when sales reps actually called on A/E's to keep them up to date and help out with technical issues.  The baffle had to be the full size of the unit and be curved or have turning vanes.  The baffle in the photos looks the right size, but the turning vanes don't look right.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Where's the


----------



## ICE

Paul Sweet said:


> re: post #3042 - I detailed baffles for outdoor units a couple times.  Most manufacturers had minimum clearances above units and recommendations for baffles where you couldn't get the needed clearance.  This was back when sales reps actually called on A/E's to keep them up to date and help out with technical issues.  The baffle had to be the full size of the unit and be curved or have turning vanes.  The baffle in the photos looks the right size, but the turning vanes don't look right.



Thanks Paul,
Could you be specific as to what the vanes should be .


----------



## mtlogcabin

I would have radius-ed the heel of the elbow fitting and dropped down the throat of the elbow and left the vanes out. The picture may be an optical illusion but the opening does not look as large as the top of the unit.


----------



## Paul Sweet

Turning vanes should always be curved.  These are straight.  Airfoil (double) turning vanes usually create less noise than single vanes, but noise wouldn't be an issue in this application.
A radiused throat is still better, but there might not be enough room to get the recommended radius equal to the depth of the duct.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Roof cricket!


----------



## ICE




----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> View attachment 3400


I'm sure that the balcony was designed to hold that much weight! "NOT"


----------



## steveray

That balcony is not in Berkeley is it?


----------



## Pcinspector1

No exterior balcony receptacle for his electric radio I suspect?


----------



## ICE

HVAC contractor.  I was surprised that he was surprised when I asked to see in the attic.


----------



## Rick18071

ICE said:


> View attachment 3400



A Way-above ground pool!


----------



## ICE

If only they could read.  .


----------



## TheCommish

isn't under a big overhang the same as indoor in California?


----------



## Pcinspector1

With gas lines and electric involved, I would assume that the permitting office knows it's an outside application?
Did they just get the wrong tank-less WH?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Did they just get the wrong tank-less WH?



It could be the wrong house.


----------



## steveray

It does say indoor OR mobile home installation, so if they screw it to outside of a mobile home, they are good....


----------



## Pcinspector1

I agree, It's the wrong house.


----------



## ICE

Photovoltaic array on a roof:











This picture is from today.  You know, I don't walk on tile roofs, steep roofs, high roofs, so I don't see the inside of a lot of junction boxes except for a picture.  I can't tell if a c-tap has been installed correctly from a picture....I can't pulll the c-tap off the wires and put it in my pocket.  I have quite a collection.

I have come to the conclusion that even if the correct size c-tap is installed with the correct crimp tool, I will still be able to remove the c-tap with my bare hands.  That hardly qualifies as an irreversible connection as is required by code.

I'm telling you that these c-taps are junk.  I have had them fall off without me touching them and too many inspectors are not aware of the problem and some do not bother to look.


----------



## steveray

That looks like someone was gnawing on it.....I usually tug on everyone is see....That being said, we don't go on the roofs....


----------



## ICE

I went to the wrong house today.  The inspection was for an electrical service upgrade.  I noticed this while I was waiting for someone to answer the door.  The lady said that they didn't get a new el service and by the way, you're at the wrong house.  So I gave her a correction slip and off I went.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

This was first inspected on 12-19-18.  It is now 1-9-19 and nothing has changed.  At the first inspection it was just me and the owner.  I made it clear to him that he must get the contractor to fix this.  The cabinet is mounted over a hole and I left correction to start over and do not leave exposed energized metal.  The electrician was there today....I fired him.


----------



## my250r11

ICE said:


> View attachment 3733
> 
> 
> View attachment 3734



Is that structural plumbing pipe? 
Don't know where they find help these days.


----------



## Pcinspector1

MC with a bonding jumper, haven't seen that one, is that the GC?

Never seen the Hots coiled like that, you okay with that?


----------



## ICE

I asked him why the tape was there.  He apologized for not doing it correctly.  He said that he has more tape and can fix this while we wait.  I asked him again why the tape is there.  He said that was to separate the clamp from the armor because of dissimilar metal corrosion.




He is a genuine electrical contractor that has been at it for more than a few years.  He assured me that he has done this hundreds of times and never has anyone asked the question.  I believe him....


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

The job is an patio cover.  The correction stated "Bond the metal that is within five feet of the water's edge."  The guy that met me was happy to see me.  He does clean work.  A tad bit wrong but clean.  He's as old as I am and we taught each other few things today.  I like when that happens.










The paint interrupts the bond.  The clamp could be below the level of the concrete.


----------



## ICE

I might have been able to do some good here.


----------



## TheCommish

ICE said:


> View attachment 3733
> 
> 
> View attachment 3734



so the plumbing contractor missed the coordination meeting?


----------



## ICE

The house is vacant.  The new owner was there for inspection of a PV system and an electrical service upgrade.  The water heater has corrections and no permit.  I had to tell her to not use it..  She wanted me to explain why the real estate "home" inspector didn't mention the water heater deficiencies.


----------



## fatboy

ICE said:


> The house is vacant.  The new owner was there for inspection of a PV system and an electrical service upgrade.  The water heater has corrections and no permit.  I had to tell her to not use it..  She wanted me to explain why the real estate "home" inspector didn't mention the water heater deficiencies.
> 
> View attachment 3772


Oh my....


----------



## steveray

That's one of those new "powerCOpoisoningvent" setups?


----------



## ICE

The job is a spot repair of a sewer.  This is how they left it.  The hole was dug three days prior to my visit.  How they can be that darned stupid and still be employed escapes me.


----------



## jar546

High tensile strength caution tape?


----------



## ICE

A solar contractor....gosh I hate calling them contractors....I think I'll change it up and call them Solar Entrepreneurs.  This SE has a C-10 license so they are allowed to install electric service upgrades.  That happened on this job.

I found this at the first inspection:




I wrote a correction that stated that the SE can't add any power to this arrangement and Edison will be be told that they can't continue to supply power either.  That resulted in a permit to upgrade the service panel.  Edison spotted the meter about 50' from the original and that required a meter main with a sub-panel at the original location.

I have been there six times for inspection as the SE stumbled through the forest of codes getting to the last set of corrections.  There is a spacious attic and you can see a cable that is a feeder from the main to the sub-panel.




The next picture shows where the cable enters a conduit.  It pokes through the wall and drops four feet to a panel cabinet.  The sheath was removed before it entered the enclosure.




The cable disappears beyond duct work and the same violation is repeated at the other end.

On the way it put a load on a duct.




This sixth visit was the first time that I had access to the inside of the dwelling.  The house is vacant and now I met the new owner.  The water heater from post 3048 was also found here.  I could tell that she was feeling betrayed by the realtors and previous owners....even the inspector that she hired.

The attic is accessed by a pull down stair.  She pulled it down.  It made an awful noise as the mechanism malfunctioned.  Long steel parts bent and twisted.  She assumed that this was how it was supposed to operate and forced it to the floor.  I was not in the hallway when she did it so I didn't mention the incident.  There will be no closing that stair.

This being trip six I was somewhat dismayed with the SE's "chief electrical employee".  I have explained all of the defects in detail at five inspections to five not the chief electrical employees..  This time the correction says "NMC is not allowed in a wet location".  The SE's CEE asked me what NMC means.  I just shook my head and said that the clue is in the wet location part of the correction.

The thing that any of the uninformed public should take away from seeing this is not that it happened.  No....the thing to realize is that this happens on a regular basis.  This type of work is typical.  Did you get that Maam....I said typical and worse.  Spend some time in this thread.  Look at the dates.  It is almost daily.  That's because I find this stuff every day that I work.  Now ask yourself, what are the odds that the work done on my solar was any different?

Scary huh!  Ohhhh! the horror of shoddy work.  Fear not hapless homeowner, for the systems aren't failing and burning down the house.  Thousands of these outcomes go unnoticed by inspectors but there seems to be no consequence.   By the time that the physical degradation of solar components could become dangerous, the panels will be weakened such that they won’t produce enough electricity to matter.

The elephants in the room are the solar manufacturers.  From panels to the racking, the least amount of everything has been sought out.
The metal is aluminum.  It is exposed to the elements and the Sun.  Take a close look at a twenty year old Winnebago that spent it's existence in the desert.

Aluminum expands and contracts and all of the parts rely on an intimate connection to achieve an electrical bond.  The installation instructions point out that fact with specific torque values for each bit of hardware.  Every nut, bolt and screw.  Nobody pays attention to that......they never use a torque wrench or driver.  They do not have any.

C-taps are used everywhere they can.  C-taps should be banned.  I pull them off with one hand.

Numbers 8 and 6 bare copper wire is used to bond panels and racking here and there.  The bare copper is in direct contact with aluminum components such as panel frames.  It will take a few years for the copper to melt it's way into the panel but it will happen.  When it does there may not be enough current flow due to poor bonding to trip a breaker.  It might wait for a person to complete a circuit.

In twenty years there will be a new genera of Solar Entrepeneur   They will be in the business of removing PV and safe disposal.  They will be busy.


----------



## jar546

Do you inspect in Bangladesh?  Sure looks like it.


----------



## ICE




----------



## TheCommish

I can fix, where is my roll of aluminum tape?


----------



## Mech

Those Safe-T-Switches and blue wire nut look familiar.  Is that the same furnace from post #3037?


----------



## ICE

Mech said:


> Those Safe-T-Switches and blue wire nut look familiar.  Is that the same furnace from post #3037?


Yes it is the same furnace...and I must say that I am surprised that you remembered the first picture.  People can do some amazing things.

At the initial inspection I wrote a correction asking for a single wall to B vent adapter.  It looked like B vent was sticking out of the ceiling and naturally a single wall vent would not be legitimate concealed in a wall.  However, a closer look at the picture has me wondering if the vent at the ceiling is B vent after all.

I am going to contact the company and suggest that they have someone present for the next inspection so we can get to the bottom of this.

Here is what I am talking about.  Obviously it is the original venting but it just seems wrong enough to get it corrected.


----------



## ICE

This is the second time that a car took out the bollards....hit the wall and brought the gas station to a standstill.  It will be a month getting back to selling fuel.  The bollards are worthless because there is a bank of conduits in the way of a footing.


----------



## ICE

Straps across a ridge are not unusual.



https://flic.kr/p/Si6pyu



I have never encountered MST48 straps across a ridge....that's what the plans specified.


----------



## classicT

ICE said:


> Straps across a ridge are not unusual.


They may be required per 802.3.1 given certain methods of traditional stick framing. Also see Figure R802.5.1.


----------



## ICE

The tiles were removed on the plane of roof that has PV.  Rolled roofing has been applied.  The pv has been installed and the tiles around the perimeter have been placed.  There’s no tiles under the array. This is a common approach to mounting PV.




The bird stop has been left in place.  The bird stop has small weep holes.  That's because tile roofs might get some moisture under the tiles.  Some moisture is way different than a flow which is what can be expected with the new setup.  Eventually all of the flow will find a way out.....that is unless the weep holes get plugged with trash, junk and debris.  Even as an open weep hole, a few hours of steady rain will overburden the weep holes and water might do what water does.




I have mentioned this to several solar companies but they continue....I'm pretty sure they know something that I don't.


----------



## steveray

ICE said:


> The tiles were removed on the plane of roof that has PV. Rolled roofing has been applied. The pv has been installed and the tiles around the perimeter have been placed. There’s no tiles under the array. This is a common approach to mounting PV.



WHAT?.....They don't waterproof the roof for the sake of PV? I don't imagine there is a good waterproofing transition detail from roll roof to tile....


----------



## Pcinspector1

How do you go from tile roof to roll roofing and back to tile roof? Need to see that design.

Has this system been tested? ICE you have some ligament concerns with the weeps.


----------



## Pcinspector1

legitimate concerns!

Dang it!


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> Straps across a ridge are not unusual.
> 
> View attachment 3821
> 
> View attachment 3822
> 
> 
> I have never encountered MST48 straps across a ridge....that's what the plans specified.
> 
> View attachment 3823
> 
> View attachment 3824


What's the purpose of the strap across the ridge?  It would be nice if
the nails were properly set before installing the shingles.


----------



## e hilton

I would think the tile to roll roofing would be ok, if the tile laps far enough ovef the start of the roll material.  On the down hill side, one would hope the roll material goes all the way to the drip edge, and the tiles are just decoration.  Probably not.  The bird stop on the bottom ... you suppose they added some at the new intermediate tile openings?  Just kidding.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Whats the purpose of the strap across the ridge?  It would be nice if the nails were oroperly set before installing the shingles.


Well I reckon that strap keeps the rafters held against the ridge board.  Maybe it gives the roof diaphragm a bit more omf.  I really don't know exactly.  The roof covering will be tile so they won't show through and the usual strap is an ST 24 which is smaller than an MST48.

The building is small.....hardly big enough to have bothered...it’s not more than eight feet wide with a strong wall at the gable end. So that MST strap almost seemed okay.

Mighty small or is it small but mighty.  It’s a two bed, two bath ADU.  The main house is seven bedrooms with six bathrooms.  This is in a 70s tract of 2000 sq ft homes.  The owner can’t understand why the neighbors are upset.


----------



## e hilton

9 Br / 8 Ba ... multifamily?  Extended family?  Air bnb?   Where are they gping to park all the cars.  Are there zoning restrictions on maximum structure per sf of land?


----------



## classicT

ICE said:


> Well I reckon that strap keeps the rafters held against the ridge board.  Maybe it gives the roof diaphragm a bit more omf.  I really don't know exactly.  The roof covering will be tile so they won't show through and the usual strap is an ST 24 which is smaller than an MST48.
> 
> The building is small.....hardly big enough to have bothered...it’s not more than eight feet wide with a strong wall at the gable end. So that MST strap almost seemed okay.
> 
> Mighty small or is it small but mighty.  It’s a two bed, two bath ADU.  The main house is seven bedrooms with six bathrooms.  This is in a 70s tract of 2000 sq ft homes.  The owner can’t understand why the neighbors are upset.





Ty J. said:


> They may be required per 802.3.1 given certain methods of traditional stick framing. Also see Figure R802.5.1.


----------



## ICE

https://ktla.com/2019/01/31/palmdal...t-wiring-that-could-shock-people-in-the-rain/


----------



## Keystone

ICE said:


> https://ktla.com/2019/01/31/palmdal...t-wiring-that-could-shock-people-in-the-rain/



I recall this same issue in Philadelphia, Pa.  

It's electric 
Boogie Oogie Oogie.


----------



## ICE

Keystone said:


> I recall this same issue in Philadelphia, Pa.
> 
> It's electric
> Boogie Oogie Oogie.



It seems odd that the electricity wasn't turned off.    "Don't touch our poles 'cause that might kill you".   A Public Service Announcement makes you look fat.


----------



## Pcinspector1

I also see this issue on signage, but that typically on private property.


----------



## JPohling

A man was killed in San Diego in 1999 by wiring issues on a bus stop enclosure.  was not pretty


----------



## ICE

I was there for a PV inspection and while checking the smoke and co alarms I found this.




This is the finished product and has been this way for a long time.  The craftsmanship is quite good.


----------



## fatboy

Impressive..........look at the smokes and CO's, and move on.

Maybe on the DL, advise that the installation is not compliant, for future use.


----------



## Sleepy

Some people pay too much attention to the architect-y design magazines.


----------



## tmurray

fatboy said:


> Impressive..........look at the smokes and CO's, and move on.
> 
> Maybe on the DL, advise that the installation is not compliant, for future use.


We would advise the owner/occupant that it does not meet code and what the safety risk is. We would also be very clear that we cannot force them to do anything, but if they choose to fix the problem, what the code would require.


----------



## mtlogcabin

tmurray said:


> We would also be very clear that we cannot force them to do anything


You sure can make them correct it under the IRC or IBC so what prohibits you from getting it corrected in Canada?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Maybe the railings are at the fabricators? Would anyone allow temporary 2x4's to be installed if that's the case?


----------



## steveray

mtlogcabin said:


> You sure can make them correct it under the IRC or IBC so what prohibits you from getting it corrected in Canada?



(Amd) R102.7 Existing structures. The legal occupancy of any building or structure existing on
the date of adoption of this code shall be permitted to continue without change, except as
specifically covered in this code.

We would have to prove when it was built or modified to even begin to cite a violation...


----------



## Inspector Gift

*The building has been altered and now has one or more serious life/safety violations.  Now that the life/safety violation has become known, it is the duty of the building official to take action. 

R102.7.1 Additions, alterations or repairs. *Additions,
alterations or repairs to any structure shall conform to the
requirements for a new structure without requiring the
existing structure to comply with the requirements of this
code, unless otherwise stated. Additions, alterations,
repairs and relocations shall not cause an existing structure
to become unsafe or adversely affect the performance of
the building.


*R110.5 Revocation. *The building official shall, in writing,
suspend or revoke a certificate of occupancy issued under the
provisions of this code wherever the certificate is issued in
error, or on the basis of incorrect information supplied, or
where it is determined that the building or structure or portion
thereof is in violation of any ordinance or regulation or any of
the provisions of this code.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Permit for remodeling?


----------



## tmurray

mtlogcabin said:


> You sure can make them correct it under the IRC or IBC so what prohibits you from getting it corrected in Canada?



It is a violation of that resident's charter rights. Unreasonable Search and Seizure. I am not there to inspect the whole house. I am there to inspect an element that has been required based on upgrades to the house. However, I would be negligent if I noted a glaring safety hazard and did not inform the occupant, so I must inform them.


----------



## ICE

There are no permits for anything after the original house was built except a 15'x20' family room, swimming pool and the recent service panel upgrade.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Rise. run and nosing meet code? 
As far as carpet and tile you could say exempted from code requirements if that's all they have done. But if they did framing, electrical, HVAC and drywall work without permits and inspection.

Guardrails, railings and handrail big safety issues. This is where you guys that have your CBO certificates, (legal aspects of the code) should chime in and tell us what liability the inspector has in this situation when code violation(s) are noticed. Stair accidents are high on the list of residential safety issues and are up there with enforcing GFCI, AFCI and SD's.

This is always a problem for the inspector when everything's covered up. I feel for the inspector not the homeowner on a issue like this.


----------



## mtlogcabin

R101.3 Intent.
The purpose of this code is to establish minimum requirements to safeguard the public safety,_ (invited guest into the home)_ health and general welfare through affordability, structural strength, means of egress facilities, stability, sanitation, light and ventilation, energy conservation and safety to life and property from fire and other hazards attributed to the built environment and to provide safety to fire fighters and emergency responders during emergency operations. 

R110.5 Revocation.
The building official shall, in writing, suspend or revoke a certificate of occupancy issued under the provisions of this code wherever the certificate is issued in error, or on the basis of incorrect information supplied, or where it is determined that the building or structure or portion thereof is in violation of any ordinance or regulation or any of the provisions of this code.

It is very easy to determine when a home was constructed and if a building code was adopted at the time of construction.


----------



## tmurray

mtlogcabin said:


> R101.3 Intent.
> The purpose of this code is to establish minimum requirements to safeguard the public safety,_ (invited guest into the home)_ health and general welfare through affordability, structural strength, means of egress facilities, stability, sanitation, light and ventilation, energy conservation and safety to life and property from fire and other hazards attributed to the built environment and to provide safety to fire fighters and emergency responders during emergency operations.
> 
> R110.5 Revocation.
> The building official shall, in writing, suspend or revoke a certificate of occupancy issued under the provisions of this code wherever the certificate is issued in error, or on the basis of incorrect information supplied, or where it is determined that the building or structure or portion thereof is in violation of any ordinance or regulation or any of the provisions of this code.
> 
> It is very easy to determine when a home was constructed and if a building code was adopted at the time of construction.


The key is looking at charging legislation to see what gives you the authority to enter into a private residence, where there would be a reasonable expectation of privacy, and inspect the building as a whole. Our legislation indicates that I am unable to inspect any other areas of the home, other than the upgrades required as part of the permit. The was termed as "piggy backing" in a superior court ruling and deemed a violation of the individual's charter rights. Your fourth amendment actually provides stronger protection from this than our charter rights.


----------



## steveray

If I didn't hate the metric system so much, I would move to Canada! LOL


----------



## Pcinspector1

Let's say you got to this location to do a PV inspection and there was no premise address, could you right that up or would that be considered a piggy back violation? Just curious on how far an inspector can go?


----------



## mtlogcabin

Some items like the address posting you can just "educated" the occupant as to the importance of posting the address and you are done. The photo of the stairs and not putting the owner on written notice and following up to make sure it gets corrected depending on the state you live could cost you and your jurisdiction a lot of money if someone got hurt.


----------



## tmurray

Pcinspector1 said:


> Let's say you got to this location to do a PV inspection and there was no premise address, could you right that up or would that be considered a piggy back violation? Just curious on how far an inspector can go?



Civic numbering is typically under a municipal by-law or provincial act here. The key is that the number must be visible from the public right of way. There is no expectation of privacy of things visible from the public right of way.


----------



## tmurray

mtlogcabin said:


> Some items like the address posting you can just "educated" the occupant as to the importance of posting the address and you are done. The photo of the stairs and not putting the owner on written notice and following up to make sure it gets corrected depending on the state you live could cost you and your jurisdiction a lot of money if someone got hurt.



Provided the owner doesn't later claim you violated their constitutional rights by searching a portion of their home you had no authorization to perform a search on.


----------



## classicT

tmurray said:


> Provided the owner doesn't later claim you violated their constitutional rights by searching a portion of their home you had no authorization to perform a search on.


But once you are invited in, I do not believe that is an illegal search.

As an example, police will regularly ask for permission to search a car/house/backpack/etc.. If one says no, then a warrant is required; if one grants permission and something is found, it would be admissible and would not be constituted as an illegal search.


----------



## tmurray

Ty J. said:


> But once you are invited in, I do not believe that is an illegal search.
> 
> As an example, police will regularly ask for permission to search a car/house/backpack/etc.. If one says no, then a warrant is required; if one grants permission and something is found, it would be admissible and would not be constituted as an illegal search.



Only if the owner gives you explicit permission to search the entire building.
The courts will ask if it is reasonable to assume that you have the owner's permission to search their entire house without their expressed permission. When a building permit is completed, an administrative search is naturally required to verify compliance with all the various codes and legislation. That person is essentially giving us prior authorization to search that portion of the building that is impacted by the construction and that portion only.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Ty J. said:


> But once you are invited in, I do not believe that is an illegal search.



I believe we are talking about the "Plain View Doctrine" at least here in the states. Not sure about Canadian law.


----------



## mtlogcabin

Exactly I am there check smoke/CO detector installation and function and I have to use those stairs to get to the upper level. No "searching" required they are in plain view

Now if I was doing an exterior siding inspection and observed the missing guards through the window then I would verbally tell the owner they need too install the guard when the finish the flooring and note it on the inspection.
FYI we would not require a permit for installing laminate  of wood flooring


----------



## ICE

Here’s the rest of the story: I talked to the owner today. Six months ago the carpet was removed from the staircase and second floor. Handrail and guardrail was removed and the owner is slow to replace the handrail and guardrail. I gave him a notice to obtain a building permit to install handrail and guardrail.

The legality of what I did takes a back seat to common sense. I suppose a judge could rule against me.  I’d rather have a judge get excited about that as opposed to me being held accountable if someone fell to their death. I would find that to be quite unsettling.


----------



## e hilton

rather have a judge get excited about that as opposed to me being held accountable if someone fell to their death. I would find that to be quite unsettling.
Good for you. Much better attitude than that of the BI at the casino in MD where the girl got electrocuted at the handrail


----------



## ICE

The job is a PV system with the array on a roof.  This compression splice was the reason that I had to get on the roof.  The problem is that the crimp is listed for a maximum #8 wire and this has 1 #6 solid.  The junction box and conduit were not labeled.




There was a service upgrade as well as the PV and that resulted in around ten inspections.  They had 32 current carrying conductors in a conduit and had no clue about de-rating.  The service was moved ten feet and ARC fault protection really tripped them up.

I was there last week and the person that met me drove a Prius.  There was no ladder and he was surprised to learn that I had to get to the roof.  Today there was another person who drove a RAM....there was a ladder.




I have met at least five of the company employees.  They have trucks and uniforms, tools and attitudes.  It's like they have never done this before.


----------



## ICE

An overhang was removed to accommodate the ledger for the patio cover.  Every other lag bolt is screwed into the end grain of a rafter tail.


----------



## tmurray

Pcinspector1 said:


> I believe we are talking about the "Plain View Doctrine" at least here in the states. Not sure about Canadian law.



We have it here, but it has been reserved for when receiving a warrant would place an unreasonable hardship on the officer. Such as when the contraband can be easily destroyed, or removed from the officer's jurisdiction (vehicles). The only other situation I've heard of it being used in is if the crimes are "abhorrent" (child porn) and the officer was operating in good faith.


----------



## mtlogcabin

If that is a seismic strap at the bottom of the post is it not installed on the wrong side to resists lateral loads?


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> View attachment 3887
> 
> 
> View attachment 3888
> 
> 
> An overhang was removed to accommodate the ledger for the patio cover.  Every other lag bolt is screwed into the end grain of a rafter tail.



I've never seen that before, lagging into the rafter tails, almost always a 2x fascia. If every other one is lagged, whats the other lag going into?


mtlogcabin said:


> If that is a seismic strap at the bottom of the post is it not installed on the wrong side to resists lateral loads?



mtnlog, 
I'm not in a seismic area, not sure why the application isn't compliant. Could have an issue screwing into the post end grain with some lumber?


----------



## linnrg

yes the truck is parked under these!


----------



## linnrg

just in case you are tired of seeing all those California sunshine pictures.  This is serious ice damming


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:


> If that is a seismic strap at the bottom of the post is it not installed on the wrong side to resists lateral loads?


That is a post base.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> the owner is slow to replace the handrail and guardrail. I gave him a notice to obtain a building permit to install handrail and guardrail..



Can you explain that please.  Why do they need a building permit to replace the handrail?  Theoretically they are reinstalling the same handrail that was code compliant when thehouse was built.  Or when they removed it to change thecarpet, did that trigger the requirement to meet current codes?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Can you explain that please.  Why do they need a building permit to replace the handrail?  Theoretically they are reinstalling the same handrail that was code compliant when the house was built.  Or when they removed it to change the carpet, did that trigger the requirement to meet current codes?



The trigger is the fact that the handrail/guardrail has been missing for six months.  The owner needs a kick in the pants to git-er-done.   When I saw the stairs I was surprised....when I reached the second floor I knew what I must do.

There might be a code that applies....there might not.  Until I am told to lay off by somebody with clout, the correction stands.    The steps and floor have a slippery faux wood tile and it is dumb luck that there hasn't been a awful accident.  I have already admitted that I may have overstepped my bounds .... certainly not the first time....probably not the last.

Consider that the owner could ignore me.  It happens often.  I am not likely to get a court order.  Now if his stupidity gets someone hurt, they won't be pointing a finger at me.  Had I just made a suggestion that there should be a handrail/guardrail I would have no defense.


----------



## Pcinspector1

I probably would not require a permit but would provide an Inspection report with date of Re-inspection. It gives the owner a check list and my ETA to do the re-inspection, works pretty good here.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> I probably would not require a permit but would provide an Inspection report with date of Re-inspection. It gives the owner a check list and my ETA to do the re-inspection, works pretty good here.


The only thing we will do for free is tell you how much we charge for everything else.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> The owner needs a kick in the pants to git-er-done.  .



Thats a good reason.


----------



## Rick18071

I don't understand why any inspection would be done for free anywhere. Most areas near me use 3rd party inspection companies but even if they don't I don't think the tax payers should pay for someones inspection.


----------



## Inspector Gift

FYI:  All Inspections are paid 100% by permit fees in Oregon.  Not taxes.


----------



## ICE

I was there for a re-roof.




Some guys never figure out how to think upside down and backwards.




Just a guess.....but it must have been his last day.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Do you get this "old house" out there? Silvia wouldn't have don it that way!

An engineer can probably tell you it's no big deal, shim it and cover it with cedar fascia.

Needs paint!


----------



## jar546

In Conarb's world permit fees start at $5000 for a bathroom remodel and require signoffs from 3 different engineers plus another 2 architects with 3D drawings and moving a sink in a kitchen requires a approval by the governor of California along with a $50,000 fee to DEP for in impact analysis to the sewer system.  The permit would take 5 years for approval and during construction everyone's property taxes would be raised $10,000 per year to cover the costs of the building department.  This, along with the fact that a $1,000,000 permit fee for a new single family residence with a value of $275,000 being the norm makes his world only for the elite.


----------



## e hilton

Thats bizarre.  Looks like a nice neighbirhood.  Not only is the fascia board scabbed together right there, but they have stacked a pair of 1x boards on top of the beam.  I hope the hidden rafters are continuous and only the fascia is in pieces.   Nice paint job too.


----------



## e hilton

Inspector Gift said:


> FYI:  All Inspections are paid 100% by permit fees in Oregon.  Not taxes.


I was the PM for a project in Portland, the permit fees were a bit high but not unresaonable.  The nice thing was, once we started the process the city assigned one person to the project, and he did everything from initial plan review all the way to final inspection.


----------



## fatboy

jar546 said:


> In Conarb's world permit fees start at $5000 for a bathroom remodel and require signoffs from 3 different engineers plus another 2 architects with 3D drawings and moving a sink in a kitchen requires a approval by the governor of California along with a $50,000 fee to DEP for in impact analysis to the sewer system.  The permit would take 5 years for approval and during construction everyone's property taxes would be raised $10,000 per year to cover the costs of the building department.  This, along with the fact that a $1,000,000 permit fee for a new single family residence with a value of $275,000 being the norm makes his world only for the elite.



Oh, this is AWESOME!


----------



## ICE

There is a battery backup to a PV system that has been installed.  Every circuit except the A/C passes through this space on it's way to a panel-board. I wrote a correction that stated that the space holding the splices is too full.  Now I understand that "too full" is an arbitrary term.  What might be too full for me may not be too full for the next person.  The question was asked, "What should we do?" I answered that a bigger space is required.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Where do the SE cables go at the bottom of the box? Do they make a 90 degree turn into the house or is it an allusion?

I don't know ICE looks like the circuit wiring fit from here, Did you do a count? Does the face plate shut?


----------



## ICE

The SE is in a conduit that emerges below grade.  The code mentions space provided by the manufacturer for splices.  I don’t think that the manufacturer would approve this.....of course I could be wrong about that.


----------



## ICE

It is a service panel upgrade.





The firsrt time out there were corrections.  That included "install a bonding bushing at oversize washers". 





The worker lamented that the conductors must be removed to install a bonding bushing to which I replied "Maybe not".  I then explained the two piece arrangement that you see here.  These save the day.


----------



## steveray

Ahhhh....the old "pelican mouth"......


ICE said:


> I was there for a re-roof.
> 
> View attachment 3909
> 
> 
> Some guys never figure out how to think upside down and backwards.
> 
> View attachment 3910
> 
> 
> Just a guess.....but it must have been his last day.


----------



## e hilton

As very kind of you to show him a time saving solution.  You must he getting soft in your old age. 
I assume the set screw on the clamp is that new special model that makes contact by osmosis through the green tape and insulation ...


----------



## jar546

ICE said:


> It is a service panel upgrade.
> 
> The firsrt time out there were corrections.  That included "install a bonding bushing at oversize washers".
> 
> The worker lamented that the conductors must be removed to install a bonding bushing to which I replied "Maybe not".  I then explained the two piece arrangement that you see here.  These save the day.



Wow, you just can't make that **** up


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> As very kind of you to show him a time saving solution.  You must he getting soft in your old age.



I just couldn't take the crying any more.  A whimper I can put up with but out and out sobbing....well I didn't get soft but I had to get gone.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Are you sure you don't want the lock nut removed with a _Sawzall?_


----------



## e hilton

Bolt cutters would take care of the old lock ring easier than sawing.  Is the lock ring causing a problem?


----------



## Pcinspector1

No it's not causing any problem. With that fix, the lock rings always gonna be there.

Using a sawzall was me trying to be funny.


----------



## Norcal

It's a die cast locknut, a pair of dykes should shatter it or be enough to score it a bit to enable it to break if held with a couple of pairs of pliers, IMO, it should not stay in place.


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> It's a die cast locknut, a pair of dykes should shatter it or be enough to score it a bit to enable it to break if held with a couple of pairs of pliers, IMO, it should not stay in place.


The guy offered to remove it.  He said that he had a bolt cutter.  His use of tools is sketchy enough that I declined. I was satisfied to get it to this point with no one getting hurt and didn’t want to push his luck.


----------



## ICE

A solar contractor placed this service panel upgrade in the garage wall with 29" from the face of the deadfront to the face of the block wall.




Part of the concrete block had to be removed to clear the cover.




The contractor was wound up.  He wanted to know how I trump Edison.  "Edison spotted the meter right there." "Are you telling me that you know more than Edison?"


----------



## Pcinspector1

That's humorous


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> Part of the concrete block had to be removed to clear the cover.
> 
> h"



Thats a nice way if saying they used a BFH to correct a problem.  
So if Edison marked thd meter location, how much / how far can the electrician move tye service point?


----------



## ICE

The electrician should have asked Edison for a code compliant meter spot.


----------



## ICE

Major hack work.








The job is a simple, small balcony.  The sheathing was called out as plywood on the plans and OSB was used.  I have asked for an ICC ESR for the walking surface coating....several times....they used a Premium product.




The work didn't pass a framing inspection and now the contractor asked for a final inspection.  The owner is livid.  Naturally, I am the bad guy in all of this.

It's now the next day and cooler heads have prevailed....they have discovered that it is never to late to start over.


----------



## e hilton

Back to the meter thats way too close to the wall ... why does the contractor havd to ask edison to put it in a compliant lication?  Why would edison think its ok to put it in a non compliant location?   Seems like negligence on their part.  But the electrician should have had enough sense to not install it there.  
On the handrail ... whats the shiny pipe in the first picture?


----------



## linnrg

post 3165.  ICE wouldn't that wall also be a rated wall due to distance to property line?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Back to the meter thats way too close to the wall ... why does the contractor havd to ask edison to put it in a compliant lication?  Why would edison think its ok to put it in a non compliant location?   Seems like negligence on their part.  But the electrician should have had enough sense to not install it there.
> On the handrail ... whats the shiny pipe in the first picture?


Chimney.


----------



## ICE

linnrg said:


> post 3165.  ICE wouldn't that wall also be a rated wall due to distance to property line?


Good point...


----------



## ICE

This equipment doesn't really fall into any code other than the electrical ...... we don't regulate it.  So I wrote a correction to support the plastic pipe.




The monkey made me do it.


----------



## ICE

The damnedest things happen with water heaters.  The transite vent is so long that spillage must go on for a long time before it heats up enough to draw.  There is no visible means of support.


----------



## linnrg

and lean the combustibles up to a fuel fired appliance!


----------



## ICE

The job is a pex repipe. This is the view under the kitchen sink.




This is an odd place for a ground clamp.....and what about the aluminum wire that sticks into the scene from who knows where.  I didn't notice the aluminum wire until I was preparing the picture for the forum.


----------



## jeffc

Someone should take away the plumbers double bit axe he used to make a hole in the drywall.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> The damnedest things happen with water heaters.  The transite vent is so long that spillage must go on for a long time before it heats up enough to draw.  There is no visible means of support.



New WH insulating blanket mandated by the State!


----------



## BLangley

ICE said:


> The damnedest things happen with water heaters.  The transite vent is so long that spillage must go on for a long time before it heats up enough to draw.  There is no visible means of support.



Looks like the water heater is supporting it to me 

Back when I was an HVAC installer, we were in this house that had what I guess was a transite vent in the middle of the house. We pull the furnace and a little while later while setting the new one the pipe came down and whacked a guy on the head. Probably concussed him, but in the 90s we didnt care.

We went up in the attic and there was nothing holding the pipe up but friction through the roof collar. We didn't need ICE to tell us to make it right


----------



## e hilton

I am not familiar with the term transite so i looked it up (thank you google).  Asbestos lined.  From my experience in commercial construction i know that non friable acm can remain if it doeznt get disturbed, and/or is encapsulated.  But they had to disturb the pipe to replace the WH and probably dusturbed the acm at the same time. So ehy is it allowed to remain?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> So why is it allowed to remain?



No permit.


----------



## ICE

The job is a new 200 amp 3 phase service....with a transformer.  The electrical contractor does not know what A.I.C. stands for and series rating is out of the question.





The bollard is directly in front of the cabinet and 36" from the pole.





This lug is no way installed correctly.




The contractor didn't know what it means to isolate the neutral.  I need to get rid of this contractor.


----------



## ICE

The correction stated "Self-tapping sheet metal screws do not create a bond for the service entrance conduit and hub".

They didn't change anything because "You used the wrong grammar".  Naturally I was curious about that so I asked what grammar would be better suited for the occasion.  Apparently the correct grammar would have included specific instructions on how to bond the conduit.  I thought of some other grammar that I considered using.....but I haven't been in real trouble for weeks so I held back.


----------



## jar546

ICE said:


> The correction stated "Self-tapping sheet metal screws do not create a bond for the service entrance conduit and hub".
> 
> They didn't change anything because "You used the wrong grammar".  Naturally I was curious about that so I asked what grammar would be better suited for the occasion.  Apparently the correct grammar would have included specific instructions on how to bond the conduit.  I thought of some other grammar that I considered using.....but I haven't been in real trouble for weeks so I held back.



yeah, they will be replacing that panel altogether.


----------



## ICE

jar546 said:


> yeah, they will be replacing that panel altogether.


This is the second panel that they have installed.  The first panel was too close to a swimming pool.  It is still there as they are waiting for me to approve the new panel.  The service entrance conduit is inside the wall.  So I have asked them to bond the conduit with a clamp and solid #4 to the ground bus.
I realize that the cabinet listing has been rendered void by the way the hub was mounted.  I am convinced that the fix is good enough.  Actually, the fix with a clamp provides a more robust ground path than would a myers hub or conduit and lock ring.  So, no harm, no foul.

This is not the first time that this has happened......you know, these solar contractors are not all that sharp.

Here is the first panel that is too close to the pool:


----------



## jar546

Holy crap.  My girlfriend is from France and knows nothing about building codes.  She was just looking over my shoulder as I brought this picture up and without any prodding whatsoever, she says to "Can I ask you a question?"  She then points to the panel near the pool in the post above and says "Is it normal that it is so close to the water?"  Even a layperson with zero code experience from another country knows this is a problem.  Wow, I'm floored.


----------



## ICE

My girlfriend....wait a minute, I married her...is from China and she wouldn't have a clue.  Most of the folks on planet Earth have a misplaced trust in the people that are supposed professionals.  I grimace when I hear owners say "I am glad that this is being inspected".  I am on the inside looking out.


----------



## ICE

Double the trouble.  The disconnects have fuses so working space is required.

The junction box needs help.




I had permits for one furnace and one condenser.  There's two of each.  The owner told me that the same company installed them both.....one set six months ago and the other set six weeks ago.  I wrote a bunch of corrections and put Xs2 after each one.


----------



## ICE

The job was raising the footing.  The hardware is a pile driven until there is a given amount of resistance.  I think that it is more likely stabilizing the footing as opposed to raising it.  I asked for a compaction report for the soil that is going back into the trench.  I was overruled.


----------



## MtnArch

ICE - can you explain why you requested a compaction report?  If the hardware was already driven into the subgrade the backfill would be non-structural, wouldn't it?  I understand that if they don't compact it, eventually it will settle and create ponds or a trench.  Just trying to learn here.


----------



## ICE

MtnArch said:


> ICE - can you explain why you requested a compaction report?



Our standard footing is required to be 24" into undisturbed earth.  The excavation has removed all of the dirt to the side and from underneath the footing.  The building is now supported on the piles that are spaced fairly far apart.  There is a square steel tube spanning between piles but it is small in comparison to the footing.  Having no support other than loose dirt under the majority of the footing seems wrong.  I suggested a slurry (in Florida it's called "flowable fill") to be placed under the footing with compacted soil for the balance of the trench.  Nothing is deemed compacted without a compaction report so I asked for a compaction report.

Our office manager decided that none of that is necessary.  Beyond that the entire scope of work is a voluntary retrofit which is exempt from permit.  A permit is obtained to satisfy an insurance company.  I tend to overbuild everything and that's not a welcome trait for a building inspector.


----------



## jar546

I don't understand how you get a compaction test performed on soil that is not placed yet.  I am also not understanding how the backfill is of such concern since the hardware installed is what's keeping the footer secure.  I am assuming the job as engineered, even if by the company that manufacturers the pile driven hardware.


----------



## ICE

The compaction report was to be done after the soil is put back.  There is an engineer as well as a special inspector.  Apparently I am the only one that's involved that thinks compacted soil under and around the footing is warranted. The consensus is that the piles mitigate all concerns.  I just figured that since the soil is going back in the trench it would be a nice touch to provide 90% compaction.  ...I get it now....the proof in the pudding is that there's no need for any back-fill at all.....piles of piles.


----------



## classicT

ICE said:


> The compaction report was to be done after the soil is put back.  There is an engineer as well as a special inspector.  Apparently I am the only one that's involved that thinks compacted soil under and around the footing is warranted. The consensus is that the piles mitigate all concerns.  I just figured that since the soil is going back in the trench it would be a nice touch to provide 90% compaction.  ...I get it now....the proof in the pudding is that there's no need for any back-fill at all.....piles of piles.


Compacted fill is definitely a decent idea, although I would tend to agree, not warranted.

Aside from that, being a former tester, there is absolutely no way to test the compaction in that trench accurately.


----------



## ICE

Ty J. said:


> Compacted fill is definitely a decent idea, although I would tend to agree, not warranted.
> 
> Aside from that, being a former tester, there is absolutely no way to test the compaction in that trench accurately.


Please tell me why it is not possible to perform a soil density test after the soil goes back in.

Thanks


----------



## classicT

ICE said:


> Please tell me why it is not possible to perform a soil density test after the soil goes back in.
> 
> Thanks


Most conventional way of testing is a nuclear densometer - process is drive a pin vertically into the ground, set gauge over hole, drop arm with rad source into hole, measure resistance, correlate to density.

How do you do this with a footing sitting on top of the backfill?

Here is a conceptual image


----------



## ICE

I suggested two sack concrete under the footing and the rest would be compacted soil.  It would be cheap redundancy if the piles don’t perform as expected......that and it didn’t occur to me that the soil is window dressing..


----------



## ICE

The last time that I saw this panel it faced the hallway that is on the other side of the wall.




When this panel is replaced it will face the hallway.


----------



## tmurray

ICE said:


> View attachment 3989
> 
> 
> View attachment 3990
> 
> 
> The job was raising the footing.  The hardware is a pile driven until there is a given amount of resistance.  I think that it is more likely stabilizing the footing as opposed to raising it.  I asked for a compaction report for the soil that is going back into the trench.  I was overruled.



We recently had someone undertake a similar repair due to a footing being undermined from flooding last spring. In researching the product, the piles take the full load of the foundation. So, in this case, the manager made the right call in my opinion.


----------



## mtlogcabin

2012 IBC
1804.2 Placement of backfill.
The excavation outside the foundation shall be backfilled with soil that is free of organic material, construction debris, cobbles and boulders or with a controlled low-strength material (CLSM). The backfill shall be placed in lifts and compacted in a manner that does not damage the foundation or the waterproofing or dampproofing material.
Exception: CLSM need not be compacted.


----------



## classicT

mtlogcabin said:


> 2012 IBC
> 1804.2 Placement of backfill.
> The excavation outside the foundation shall be backfilled with soil that is free of organic material, construction debris, cobbles and boulders or with a controlled low-strength material (CLSM). The backfill shall be placed in lifts and compacted in a manner that does not damage the foundation or the waterproofing or dampproofing material.
> Exception: CLSM need not be compacted.


Compacted is different than requiring compaction testing.

Compacted is an arbitrary standard understood by most to mean firm and unyielding.
Compaction testing requires development of a 100% value by means of a proctor (commonly D1557 or D698). Testing would be extreme overkill for a foot of foundation wall backfill. Especially when next week the home owner could plant shrubbery throughout.


----------



## ICE

It’s closer to three feet. The point of it all is to arrest a subsiding foundation. The piles have been forced into earth until the friction reaches a point that is deemed sufficient to support the structure.  What are the conditions that effect the sufficiency of that friction?  Are those conditions fluid?  Has this pile system never failed?
So I asked for support under the foundation in the form of slurry and compacted soil for the balance.  The two guys with shovels said that they usually just toss the dirt.  I wanted to be sure that the soil was compacted so I asked for a compaction report.  

I guess I question an incomplete engineered process.


----------



## e hilton

View attachment 3991


When this panel is replaced it will face the hallway.

View attachment 3992

	

		
			
		

		
	
[/QUOTE]
Are you saying you are going to make them put it back into ths hall?   Good for you.  What about cleaning out the spray paint?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> View attachment 3991
> 
> 
> When this panel is replaced it will face the hallway.
> 
> View attachment 3992


Are you saying you are going to make them put it back into ths hall?   Good for you.  What about cleaning out the spray paint?[/QUOTE]


The panel will be replaced......as in a new panel facing into the hallway.


----------



## MtnArch

ICE said:


> Our standard footing is required to be 24" into undisturbed earth.  The excavation has removed all of the dirt to the side and from underneath the footing.  The building is now supported on the piles that are spaced fairly far apart.  There is a square steel tube spanning between piles but it is small in comparison to the footing.  Having no support other than loose dirt under the majority of the footing seems wrong.  I suggested a slurry (in Florida it's called "flowable fill") to be placed under the footing with compacted soil for the balance of the trench.  Nothing is deemed compacted without a compaction report so I asked for a compaction report.
> 
> Our office manager decided that none of that is necessary.  Beyond that the entire scope of work is a voluntary retrofit which is exempt from permit.  A permit is obtained to satisfy an insurance company.  I tend to overbuild everything and that's not a welcome trait for a building inspector.



ICE - Thanks for the explanation - that makes more sense now, however my question would now be that if you do have piles wouldn't the continuous footings have been designed as grade beams that should (theoretically) span from pier to pier without support?  If you so, why would you need a compaction report to be generated?

I really appreciate seeing and hearing your (and others) experience from the other side of the fence.  It's so easy for we DP's to focus on our black and white drawings and totally ignore the reality of what really goes on in the field that you IP's ('Inspection Professionals') have to deal with.


----------



## ICE

Alan,
It is not likely that the footing was designed as a grade beam.  The engineer that put this together placed a square steel tube under the footing.  I assume that is because there is no way to know the strength of the footing.

I believe that compaction is important.  I am mostly alone in that belief.  The plans and specifications do not mention compaction so I stand on firm ground approving the work without compaction or a report.  The owner, contractor, engineer and insurance company are pleased with the outcome....who am I to rock the boat?


----------



## MtnArch

I guess I have never been involved in a project that had piers that didn't have grade beams designed as a part of the foundation.  Thanks for the explanation!


----------



## mtlogcabin

ICE
I might be over thinking the need for compact from a different need
Considering the seismic zone you are in I would think compaction should be required for this repair to prevent a lateral shift of the house in a seismic event the week after the job is complete


----------



## tmurray

mtlogcabin said:


> ICE
> I might be over thinking the need for compact from a different need
> Considering the seismic zone you are in I would think compaction should be required for this repair to prevent a lateral shift of the house in a seismic event the week after the job is complete


That should have been taken into account by the engineer of record. Not a bad thing to ask and make sure of though.


----------



## fatboy

ICE said:


> This equipment doesn't really fall into any code other than the electrical ...... we don't regulate it.  So I wrote a correction to support the plastic pipe.
> 
> View attachment 3976
> 
> 
> The monkey made me do it.


Are you enforcing the Pool and Spa Code...are there requirements for support there? Otherwise....you are out of bounds.........non-pot, re-circ water, unless you have local amendments, you have no jurisdiction. My neck of the woods........


----------



## ICE

Well no fatboy we don't enforce the Pool and Spa Code.  So I don't know if there is a code for pipe support there.

Take a look at the pipe.  Do you see how easy it would be for a rambunctious kid or bichon frise to snap the pipe?





You are correct....I am out of bounds. But hey now, somebody had to pay for a permit....am I to be faulted for giving them a little extra?


----------



## ICE

The job is an addition of a kitchen, dining room and master bedroom and bathroom.

Cracks in stucco do not show well in photographs.  At least not the photos I take.




This stucco is about three months old and cracked all over the place.




The contractor has repeatedly refused to discuss this with the owner.  He says that stucco cracks and there's no fault on his part.




A crack in stucco is not usually cause for a correction notice.  Many an owner has pointed out a hairline crack and asked me to make the contractor fix it.  It hardly ever happens that I write a correction.  I did this time and suggested that the owner contact the CSLB.


----------



## e hilton

Those cracks look excessive.  Maybe not a code issue, but certainly not done with quality in mind.  
You said the permit was to add a kitchen, bedfoom and bath ... is it becoming multi-family?  Is the old kitchen remainjng?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Those cracks look excessive.  Maybe not a code issue, but certainly not done with quality in mind.
> You said the permit was to add a kitchen, bedfoom and bath ... is it becoming multi-family?  Is the old kitchen remainjng?


The new kitchen is the only kitchen.


----------



## ICE




----------



## e hilton

Oh good.  Now the kids can stand on the pipes to look over the fence.


----------



## MtnArch

ICE said:


>


Did you require compaction reports?  (sorry ICE .. couldn't resist!!)   ;-)


----------



## ICE

MtnArch said:


> Did you require compaction reports?  (sorry ICE .. couldn't resist!!)   ;-)


Ya know I don't don't want to get a bad reputation.  With that in mind I figured it might be a bit too much to ask for a compaction report.  Then I noticed that the supports sit on concrete....that made me feel much better.


----------



## ICE

The label states that the clearance from the top to a "ceiling" is 12".  After repeated cycles of heating the framing the wood will dry out and become easier to ignite.  It appears that the soffit is getting plenty hot.

Well I was there for an electrical service upgrade and had to see the jumper between the hot and cold water pipes at the water heater.  The work was performed by a solar contractor that became visibly upset when I declined an opportunity to approve the work.

There was an issue with the electrical.




Recently there was some discussion regarding T&P relief valves for tank-less water heaters.  This unit has an entire paragraph on the label devoted to pressure relief valves.  No mention of temperature relief valves.




An odd feature of this label is that the verbiage regarding clearances indicates that the heater is allowed indoors.  However there is a statement that it is for outdoors only.


----------



## ICE

The switch is a disconnect for the tank-less water heater.


----------



## fatboy

I am always amazed at the $hit you find.......wow


----------



## jar546

The switch location is no good but the switch may be labeled for the use.


----------



## ICE

There’s nothing wrong with the switch location and it’s the same switch that I have throughout my home....indoors


----------



## chris kennedy

jar546 said:


> the switch may be labeled for the use.



I don't think so Mr. Inspector. 404.7

Has to say on/off.

Consider your chops busted.


----------



## jar546

chris kennedy said:


> I don't think so Mr. Inspector. 404.7
> 
> Has to say on/off.
> 
> Consider your chops busted.



Darn you Kennedy!


----------



## jar546

ICE said:


> What about the use outdoors.  The switch is a generic indoor switch.  Does an in use cover allow an outdoor use?  That doesn’t work for a receptacle unless it’s rated WR so I have always assumed that a cover doesn’t change the location where such a switch can be used.



406.4 & 406.9 are specific to receptacles and not switches.  So other than 404.7 which requires marking of on and off, as reminded by Chris Kennedy, that is not a problem.  Switches are used legally on roofs and all over the exterior on a regular basis in a code compliant method.


----------



## ICE

A living room light switch is ok outdoors......as long as there is a cover?  The time before this was for a swimming pool light but you’re saying that isn’t a violation?
I haven’t looked for it but Shirley the words indoor use only are on the switch.

As far as location...we’ve had that discussion before and 110.26(A) still doesn’t apply.


----------



## jar546

ICE said:


> A living room light switch is ok outdoors......as long as there is a cover?  The time before this was for a swimming pool light but you’re saying that isn’t a violation?
> I haven’t looked for it but Shirley the words indoor use only are on the switch.
> 
> As far as location...we’ve had that discussion before and 110.26(A) still doesn’t apply. The



There are tens if not hundreds of thousands of single pole switches inside weather covers on roofs for commercial buildings and in other places.  Not a code problem.


----------



## ICE

It must  be an East coast thing.  I see plenty of switches outdoors and they never look like this switch.....if they do, they get replaced.

Sunlight might kill it before it gets wet.  Come to think of it, I have a couple in my garage that are still in the package.  I’ll look for them when I get home.  If they aren’t stamped “indoor use only” I’ll contact ETL and let them know what was missed.


----------



## jar546

ICE said:


> It must  be an East coast thing.  I see plenty of switches outdoors and they never look like this switch.....if they do, they get replaced.


The decora is in your picture is wrong because it is not labeled ON and OFF, otherwise it is fine.


----------



## Pcinspector1

That's actually a good point, it would be nice to know if it's on or off, get a UV rated sharpie out.


----------



## ICE

They are in the end stage of building a house.  They drained the pool and went on a two week vacation.  Swimming  pools float.


----------



## TheCommish

aw sh*t


----------



## my250r11

TheCommish said:


> aw sh*t



What he said!!


----------



## ICE

There is no tile roof under the array.  The tile roofing was removed and replaced with asphalt shingles.  Then the tiles are placed around the perimeter so that you can't see the asphalt shingles.


----------



## ICE

The floor is porcelain.  The sheets measure 5'x10'.


----------



## fatboy

How do they deal with the seams, grout, silicone? Looks nice. Notching around partitions could be a PITA...


----------



## ICE

fatboy said:


> How do they deal with the seams, grout, silicone? Looks nice. Notching around partitions could be a PITA...


I didn't ask about the grout.  The gaps are narrow, uniform and straight.  The guy that did this had not done a tile floor before now.  He is from England and came to the USA to build a huge home for his sister.  He is Chinese with a thick English accent.  His wife is also Chinese with a French accent.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> There is no tile roof under the array.  The tile roofing was removed and replaced with asphalt shingles.  Then the tiles are placed around the perimeter so that you can't see the asphalt shingles.


[QUOTE="aw sh*t[/QUOTE]


----------



## MtnArch

And hope that the slab doesn't crack or move!


----------



## ICE

Bonding a fence to a swimming pool equipotential bonding grid.







There's a lay-in lug on the way.  I'll get a picture.


----------



## e hilton

I have used those huge porcelain sheets in commercial construction, but as wall panels.  They are thin and surprisingly strong, but not unbreakable.  Because they are porcelain, no sealer is needed.  They install just like small tiles (with thinset) but of course they require a lot more attention to proper details.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> View attachment 4183


I can't see anything wrong with that installation, it does have the required clearance in front of the panel!


----------



## my250r11

Not an electrical inspector but not sure how they are going to address the giant holes in the wall with the panels in the way.


----------



## ICE

my250r11 said:


> Not an electrical inspector but not sure how they are going to address the giant holes in the wall with the panels in the way.


I’ll ask the building inspector......oh wait a minute that’s me.  When they build the stairs the wall will be patched.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Stairs? 

I don't start drinking until after five!


----------



## Mech

Is a guard / fall protection required due to the height of the wall and the proximity of the HVAC & electrical equipment to the wall?


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for conduit.  There will be a fence with a bunch of lights.




At each location there are four upright rebar....next to the sidewalk.








I don't understand how people can be blind to the danger.


----------



## ICE

_R908.1 General. Materials and methods of application used for re-covering or replacing an existing roof covering shall comply with the requirements of Chapter 9. 
Exceptions: 
1. Reroofing shall not be required to meet the minimum design slope requirement of one-quarter unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent slope) in Section R905 for roofs that provide positive roof drainage._

A dead flat roof will drain and I suppose that's positive roof drainage. The flat area slopes towards the pitched roof but is otherwise flat.




The roof that I am on is pretty much identical.  Note the flat spot on the rolled roofing.  It was stored with one end on the pitched roof so it now has a flat spot on each end.  I don't think that I would store it that way but what do I know.


----------



## ICE

It is easy to forget that southern California is a desert.


----------



## JCraver

Mech said:


> Is a guard / fall protection required due to the height of the wall and the proximity of the HVAC & electrical equipment to the wall?



No


----------



## ICE

There's a furnace in there but I can't get to it.




I am at the access which is a hole in a closet ceiling.  You can see the cover on the right.  This would lead to the back side of the furnace .... if it were not blocked off with duct.


----------



## classicT

ICE said:


> There's a furnace in there but I can't get to it.
> 
> View attachment 4218
> 
> 
> I am at the access which is a hole in a closet ceiling.  You can see the cover on the right.  This would lead to the back side of the furnace .... if it were not blocked off with duct.
> 
> View attachment 4219


What is with all the dryer transition duct?


----------



## ICE

Ty J. said:


> What is with all the dryer transition duct?



Could be a bathroom exhaust fan.


----------



## classicT

Of all the things that you write up, is that one that you let go?

ANSI/UL 2158A is pretty specific that these transition ducts  "...are intended to connect a clothes dryer to an existing permanent duct provided as a part of the building structure. The duct is intended to vent lint and humid air from drying clothes."

UL Listing link for reference: https://iq.ulprospector.com/en/profile?e=208972


----------



## Inspector Gift

In the 2nd pic, it looks like a bathroom fan is missing ducting.


----------



## mtlogcabin

Thermofin duct is UL-A100-U and is not listed as a transition duct (UL 2158A) and it does not meet the requirement as "smooth" to be used as a dryer duct. 
Hopefully it is a bathroom exhaust


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> There's a furnace in there but I can't get to it.
> 
> View attachment 4218
> 
> 
> I am at the access which is a hole in a closet ceiling.  You can see the cover on the right.  This would lead to the back side of the furnace .... if it were not blocked off with duct.
> 
> View attachment 4219



Looks like a planned inspection diversion to keep you from finding their weed operation!


----------



## Pcinspector1

You got your UL approved 1599B flexible duct tape it must okay! 

Do you make them staple the 12/2 w/g or is that the least of your worries on this inspection? 

That one flex duct in the first photo is kinda crimped not giving the customer the maximum air flow, it's mess'n with the air vortex.


----------



## ICE

The first inspection was done by another inspector.  There was a few corrections but no mention of doing it over.  I went for the second inspection.   I wrote six corrections. I told the contractor that access to the firebox side is required. The contractor completed four corrections and then requested an inspection. 

The contractor is a large company.  I’m not telling them something that they don’t know. This mistake is about as dumb as it gets. There’s no cutting in a new access.  The furnace must be turned 90°.  I was told that they did it like this so that the existing roof jack can be used for the vent.  The roof covering is Spanish tile ...... breaks easy.  He was trying to talk me out of the “do it over” correction.  Imagine that.


----------



## ICE

Inspector Gift said:


> In the 2nd pic, it looks like a bathroom fan is missing ducting.


Thanks.  Now if you could be so kind as to remind me later.


----------



## Inspector Gift

ICE said:


> Thanks.  Now if you could be so kind as to remind me later.


ICE, as James Taylor said, "Just call out my name, and you know I will be there!"


----------



## ICE

Every bit of the roofing that was on the house made it across two sheets of OSB on the way to a roll-off bin parked in the driveway.


----------



## ICE

I am not aware of any complaints.


----------



## my250r11

ICE said:


> View attachment 4225
> 
> 
> I am not aware of any complaints.
> 
> View attachment 4226



Now it looks like my neck of the woods! lmao


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> View attachment 4225



Paint booth, garage or shed structure, what ever they claim, doesn't pass the zoning code test in front of the building line set back. needs to be removed, dog can stay, guarding the appliance.


----------



## steveray

It's not missing...It is in the first picture.....


----------



## Pcinspector1

And it's in the second picture too!


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Paint booth, garage or shed structure, what ever they claim, doesn't pass the zoning code test in front of the building line set back. needs to be removed, dog can stay, guarding the appliance.



This is not patently dangerous....unless of course it is a paint booth, but I doubt that it is.  There's no need to poke a hornets nest until someone is complaining.  I see plenty of what we would call illegal.  By plenty I mean a ton of it.  I keep my mouth shut if I don't see danger.  This is such an eyesore that I am surprised that nobody has pitched a bitch.  The neighborhood is decent so perhaps the occupant is a nut case and everybody is afraid of him.  That would be reason enough to look away young man, look away.


----------



## ICE

A father and son came to the counter this morning.  The son is late 50s and the father is late really old.  The father had an under slab leak.  A copper pipe developed a pin hole. A wood floor warped.  An insurance company sent a contractor.  The contractor removed a 4'x16" stretch of slab and replaced 3' of copper pipe with PEX.  The slab was patched and the wood floor is being replaced.  No permit has been obtained.

The owner is concerned about the PEX and he is not sure if it is legal.  The PEX was not sleeved and Shark Bite fittings were used.  So I know that the PEX shall be sleeved. A sleeve would need to be sealed or emerge from the earth at both ends.  I am not sure about the Shark Bite fittings located under a slab.




I found this on the internet:
_Underground *burial* of *SharkBite* brass *fittings* requires that the fitting be wrapped in an impermeable material to protect the connection from ground contaminants. Stretches up to 300% for easy use and creates a watertight and airtight seal.
_
Alrighty then, it can be buried.  But what about buried under a slab?


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> But what about buried under a slab?



I'm seeing it here buried below the basement floor slab, most of the time it's not PEX brand, usually Blue Crestline 200 psi. If going through a footer it's being sleeved and I haven't seen it through a foundation wall in a coons age.


----------



## jar546

Now you have an insulated break in the continuity of the required copper water pipe bonding.  Violation #1


----------



## ICE

jar546 said:


> Now you have an insulated break in the continuity of the required copper water pipe bonding.  Violation #1


Thanks, I hadn’t thought of that.  I told the owner that a permit was required and the PEX shall be replaced with copper.....and brazed fittings.


----------



## ICE

I haven't gotten through to them with regards to bonding.  They keep saying that bonding doesn't get any better than a Myers hub.


----------



## e hilton

If you go to the trouble of cutting a decent size hole in the slab, why not make the repair the right way?  At least when they go back next week to replace it the concrete will still be green.


----------



## ICE

The original panel was repurposed as a J-box years ago.  A surface mount service panel was placed next the original service cabinet.  The hole has been there for all these years.  It is still the method of choice in most of southern California.  I do not approve such an installation but I see it done this way so often that I am convinced that it is approved in a lot of jurisdictions.


----------



## ICE

Proof yet again that men will not be bothered with reading the installation instructions.







This was next door to the job that I was inspecting so I don't have to deliver the bad news.  One day the wife will lament, "Ya know' that thing doesn't seem to be worth what you paid for it".


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> This was next door to the job that I was inspecting so I don't have to deliver the bad news.  One day the wife will lament, "Ya know' that thing doesn't seem worth what you paid for it".



That means she'll cut him off until he has it fixed, see no inspectors necessary.


----------



## ICE

When I mentioned this to the superintendent I said that I know people that have been impaled.  He said that he has witnessed it in person.




This was later on that day:


----------



## steveray

"Green building" with the reuse of those water bottles...Cali allows those? And I don't mean for that purpose, just in general....LOL


----------



## steveray

jar546 said:


> Now you have an insulated break in the continuity of the required copper water pipe bonding.  Violation #1



The water will bond it....like a pool.....


----------



## classicT

steveray said:


> The water will bond it....like a pool.....


----------



## ICE

My local Costco.  The bathrooms are being renovated.  I've seen better stairs with carnival rides.


----------



## my250r11

Just another failed roof inspection!


----------



## ICE

my250r11 said:


> Just another failed roof inspection!
> View attachment 4347



That's way more than Just another failed roof.  The vent is a hoot.


----------



## ICE

The job is creating a bathroom between two second floor bedrooms.  Back to back closets have been eliminated to provide the space for the bathroom.



The first inspection was for the plumbing.







Not long into it I noticed that the joist under the missing wall is 5-- 2"x10"s.  I couldn't help but wonder why.  The contractor was no help......until I asked him to remove an area of drywall from the lid.  That's where I found this:


----------



## ICE

First inspection:





Second inspection:


----------



## e hilton

my250r11 said:


> Just another failed roof inspection!



Lovely.  So is that multiple layers ofcomposition shingles over wood shakes?   Whats with the foam?


----------



## e hilton

Good catch on the no-longer-structural beam. 
Is there enough slope for the drain lines to perform properly?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Good catch on the no-longer-structural beam.
> Is there enough slope for the drain lines to perform properly?


There is sufficient slope.  There are several san-tee on the horizontal.


----------



## linnrg

the whole plumbing run needs to be redone


----------



## JPohling

And the beam integrity needs to be addressed


----------



## ICE

A correction was written to label the circuits.






https://flic.kr/p/2emCbdF



The only way to read the label is to take a picture.


----------



## my250r11

e hilton said:


> So is that multiple layers of composition shingles over wood shakes?



Some of the roof was removed in some places. The Valley between the 2 roofs has wood shingle under it. One of the roofs still had 2 layers under it, think one 3 tab, one composite.



e hilton said:


> Whats with the foam?



Good question, was worried someone might be eating it with the fork laying there.  no drip edge installed there either


----------



## e hilton

.


ICE said:


> There is sufficient slope.  There are several san-tee on the horizontal.



Color me dumb, but what does the presence of sanitary tees have to do with slope?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> .
> 
> 
> Color me dumb, but what does the presence of sanitary tees have to do with slope?



They are not allowed for horiz. to horiz. drainage.


----------



## jwilly3879

ICE said:


> They are not allowed for horiz. to horiz. drainage.


This is probably the most common violation I see.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> They are not allowed for horiz. to horiz. drainage.



Ok, so you were pointing out another fault, i thought you were trying to say the t's improvrd drainage.  
So if they ars not allowed, how do you tie in a second fixture to a run?  
Wait ... is a Y different than a san-t?


----------



## Mech

e hilton said:


> Wait ... is a Y different than a san-t?


Yup


----------



## classicT

45 wye to be used with a 1/8th...............................Combo wye/1/8 (long sweep)




Sanitary T - only to be installed vertically as shown


----------



## e hilton

Ty J. said:


> .............Combo wye/1/8 (long sweep)



Got it.  Two things: without saying "because its code" can someone explain why the T is not allowed.  Dorsnt appear to be a whole lot of difference.  Yes i see the physical diff, but not the functional diff. 
2.  I think your pic of the combo y is actually 1/4 not 1/8 ... it turns a full 90.


----------



## Mech

Because Ice said so.

I assume it is because the T forces the sewage to make an abrupt 90 degree change in direction and will lose flow velocity (clog potential) while the San Y provides a smoother transition from vertical to horizontal, retains flow velocity, and keeps the debris moving down the pipe.


----------



## classicT

e hilton said:


> Got it.  Two things: without saying "because its code" can someone explain why the T is not allowed.  Dorsnt appear to be a whole lot of difference.  Yes i see the physical diff, but not the functional diff.
> 2.  I think your pic of the combo y is actually 1/4 not 1/8 ... it turns a full 90.


It is a combination, as in constructed as one piece, wye and a 1/8 fitting. In total, the fitting is equal to a 1/4, but not described as such.

Problem with sanitary T on their side or back is that they clog. Flow is disturbed at the intersection and solids build up on the fitting.


----------



## ICE

Ty J. said:


> Problem with sanitary T on their side or back is that they clog. Flow is disturbed at the intersection and solids build up on the fitting.



That and because I said so.


----------



## linnrg

also the san tee on its back makes it difficult to snake thru


----------



## ICE

Solar company:


----------



## ICE

Here you can see the drilled holes in the footing.......the dowels.......and the epoxy.




Here you can see the special inspectors report that the work has been completed.  The special inspector had been gone from the site for an hour.




The contractor told me that the special inspector assured him that it was okay to not be there during the work.....and here's his report to prove it.

I'm probably not the inspector to treat that way.


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> Here you can see the drilled holes in the footing.......the dowels.......and the epoxy.
> 
> Here you can see the special inspectors report that the work has been completed.  The special inspector had been gone from the site for an hour.
> 
> The contractor told me that the special inspector assured him that it was okay to not be there during the work.....and here's his report to prove it.
> 
> I'm probably not the inspector to treat that way.



What do you care?  You have the Special Inspector's signed certificate, that's all you need for your file.  I do that all the time, drill the holes, have the compressor sitting there with a nozzle on the end of the hose, the epoxy tubes in the gun, and even the stupid brass brush sitting there, I've never had a Special Inspector turn me down.  If a city inspector came by and complained you better bet I'd be on my way to City Hall giving the CBO Hell for having a nit-picker driving prices up.  Is this all you care bout doing exercising your power to drive prices up?


----------



## e hilton

Sorry conarb, i have to agree with Ice on this one.  The inspectors report indicates that he saw the dowels epoxied in place ... but they were not.  An unethical contractor could save the epoxy and dowels for another job. 
I was managing a project, gc was incompetent and unethical, the special inspector was lazy.  Inspector could not / would not make the concrete pours and allowed the gc to submit false delivery inspecyion reports, and the PE in the inspectors office would sign off on them.   I saw reports where the slump was recorded as one inch, and the air temp as one degree F. Should have said n/a or not observed.  As a result, all break strength psi reports were suspect.


----------



## ICE

A dishonest inspector and a crooked contractor walked into a bar........



conarb said:


> What do you care?  You have the Special Inspector's signed certificate, that's all you need for your file.  I do that all the time, drill the holes, have the compressor sitting there with a nozzle on the end of the hose, the epoxy tubes in the gun, and even the stupid brass brush sitting there, I've never had a Special Inspector turn me down.  If a city inspector came by and complained you better bet I'd be on my way to City Hall giving the CBO Hell for having a nit-picker driving prices up.  Is this all you care bout doing exercising your power to drive prices up?



Considering the simplicity of epoxy bolts I doubt that special inspectors are there to help the contractors get it done correctly.  There may be a few that would benefit from a functioning brain but again, it's pretty straight forward.  So why then do we require a special inspector?  It comes down to trust.  You see, we must have faith that the epoxy bolt will be there when it's needed.  As you have demonstrated.....well I'm sure that you understand.

Knowing that it's all about the money I am curious if the savings of hiring a special inspector that will lie is significant.  And if not, what's the motivation?  I don't think I would be willing to pay big money for a piece of paper.  Perhaps it's, Here's $10, send over a fax.  Now that's a savings.  Did a bulk purchase ever come up?  

You ask, What do you care? You and I are far apart as human beings.


----------



## tmurray

conarb said:


> What do you care?  You have the Special Inspector's signed certificate, that's all you need for your file.  I do that all the time, drill the holes, have the compressor sitting there with a nozzle on the end of the hose, the epoxy tubes in the gun, and even the stupid brass brush sitting there, I've never had a Special Inspector turn me down.  If a city inspector came by and complained you better bet I'd be on my way to City Hall giving the CBO Hell for having a nit-picker driving prices up.  Is this all you care bout doing exercising your power to drive prices up?



If he is approving something based on a report from a consultant that is obviously false, he now introduces liability for the municipality he represents. The report did not say they were in the process of installing it. It said it was installed. How can I rely on a report that is completely fabricated? I'm sure my tax payers wouldn't like me gambling with their money like that.

The reality is that the contractor paid this third party inspection agency for services that they are not receiving.


----------



## classicT

conarb said:


> What do you care?  You have the Special Inspector's signed certificate, that's all you need for your file.  I do that all the time, drill the holes, have the compressor sitting there with a nozzle on the end of the hose, the epoxy tubes in the gun, and even the stupid brass brush sitting there, I've never had a Special Inspector turn me down.  If a city inspector came by and complained you better bet I'd be on my way to City Hall giving the CBO Hell for having a nit-picker driving prices up.  Is this all you care bout doing exercising your power to drive prices up?


Because it is a falsified report. 

The report is not accurate, whether created by SI firm or by the contractor, it does not matter. Might as well have no SI report. And the SI, if turned in, would be stripped of his/her ICC SI Certifications for this.

(FYI, I'm familiar. Did SI for 5yrs before joining an AHJ and have the MSI tag)


----------



## e hilton

tmurray said:


> The reality is that the contractor paid this third party inspection agency for services that they are not receiving.



Maybe they are receiving what they paid for.


----------



## conarb

First of all the ICC, in it's wisdom, has assigned epoxy bolting to the special inspector, not to both the special inspector and the field inspector.  The AHJ does have the right and responsibility to approve the special inspector, the way I read Chapter 17 is that Tiger doesn't have the right to second guess the special inspector, but he does have the right to disqualify the special inspector.  I'm now quoting from the 2013 CBC (I'm retired and don't now if changes have been made, but be aware that the code shows that many changes have been made to the IBC by the CBC, but of course Tiger is in California):

*1704A.2 Special inspections.* Where application is made for construction as described in this section, the owner shall employ one or more approved agencies to perform inspections during construction on the types of work listed under Section 1705A. These inspections are in addition to the inspections identified in Section 110.
*Exception:* Special inspections are not required for construction of a minor nature or as warranted by conditions in the jurisdiction, as approved by the building official.​
One of the biggest complaints I get from owners is the  additional cost of Special Inspections, as one guy asked: "Why all these multi-layers of inspection?"  The way I read it is Tiger either accepts the special inspection reports, or goes the the CBO and reports the special inspection firm suggesting their approval be withdrawn. I would call this "minor" and Tiger could try to get the SI's approval pulled and do the inspection himself. 
​


----------



## classicT

conarb said:


> First of all the ICC, in it's wisdom, has assigned epoxy bolting to the special inspector, not to both the special inspector and the field inspector.  The AHJ does have the right and responsibility to approve the special inspector, the way I read Chapter 17 is that Tiger doesn't have the right to second guess the special inspector, but he does have the right to disqualify the special inspector.  I'm now quoting from the 2013 CBC (I'm retired and don't now if changes have been made, but be aware that the code shows that many changes have been made to the IBC by the CBC, but of course Tiger is in California):
> 
> *1704A.2 Special inspections.* Where application is made for construction as described in this section, the owner shall employ one or more approved agencies to perform inspections during construction on the types of work listed under Section 1705A. These inspections are in addition to the inspections identified in Section 110.
> *Exception:* Special inspections are not required for construction of a minor nature or as warranted by conditions in the jurisdiction, as approved by the building official.​
> One of the biggest complaints I get from owners is the  additional cost of Special Inspections, as one guy asked: "Why all these multi-layers of inspection?"  The way I read it is Tiger either accepts the special inspection reports, or goes the the CBO and reports the special inspection firm suggesting their approval be withdrawn. I would call this "minor" and Tiger could try to get the SI's approval pulled and do the inspection himself.
> ​


The report was falsified.... an unethical situation has occurred. The code does not provide direction for everything.

If this were my job, this would be close to enough justification for a red-tag and stop-work order. At minimum a failed inspection and call to the SI firm with a firm notice that the inspector will be reported.


----------



## ICE

The solar industry has become more competitive.  As a result, the workforce has become less capable.




There is a junction box at the upper right hand corner.  It is in a place that is difficult to reach.  It appears to have no support.




There's a bunch of these clamping devices.  Clamping devices are what it's all about for a solar racking system.  The clamping devices serve to secure the module as well as provide a low impedance ground path.  I'm not convinced that they are aware of that.


----------



## ICE

Is there anybody else out there that would vote c-taps off the island.


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for a Tesla battery system that was added to an existing solar system.  I asked the person that met me to "Walk me through the system".  He pointed at the battery and said, "That's the battery".  I said, "What's the rest of it all about".  He said that this is the first inspection that he has ever been on and he knows nothing about anything that's electrical.




Correction number two had to do with a clearance issue.  There's little doubt that the solar company will call the manager to complain about correction number one.


----------



## mark handler

Also signage (labels)?


----------



## ICE

At the first inspection I found that the stucco had been completed.  I asked for the stucco to be removed for inspection.  At the second inspection I found that the stuuco patch had been removed but the lath had been reinstalled.  This is the third inspection. The extruded lath has been removed and the paper has been reinstalled.  Well it is a solar contractor doing their best.







I was finally able to get to the j-box on the roof.


----------



## Norcal

Is the meter height OK? Picture makes it look high, and those offset nipples are ugly at best.


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> Is the meter height OK? Picture makes it look high, and those offset nipples are ugly at best.


The height is okay.  The raceway through an intact ko is not okay.


----------



## ICE

I couldn't go on the property with a level or tape but from a picture I was able to determine that the fascia and the bottom of the door are mostly parallel.


----------



## ICE

I saw this and called the office to find out if there is a permit for solar.  There is and I haven't inspected it yet.   Shirley somebody's gonna tell me that this is alright.





It's hard to tell from the street but that looks like felt and not that old.  I can see a shadow of another line that seems to be another layer.  It might be an asphalt roof covering under the tile.  I can't get any closer than this.  I need a drone.




Update: There is a permit to remove the tile from the footprint of the array and install asphalt shingles.  Actually there are two permits for that work by different contractors.  After the solar is installed someone infills the tiles around the array.


----------



## Pcinspector1

The birds are gonna love that install, the occupants not so much.


----------



## Pcinspector1

I like that they took the time to paint the conduit. There is different colored conduit on the market, but probably not that color?


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> Is there anybody else out there that would vote c-taps off the island.
> 
> View attachment 4368



Question ... is the problem that they are using the wrong size?  Doesnt look like it wraps far enough around the smaller wire.  And i assume they are allowed by code, otherwise you would have (reluctantly) issued a citation.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> I couldn't go on the property with a level or tape but from a picture I was able to determine that the fascia and the bottom of the door are mostly parallel.



Not sure i agree.  Look at the raised panels in the top row ... the one on the left touches the header, the one on the right has a gap at the top.


----------



## linnrg

e hilton said:


> Not sure i agree.  Look at the raised panels in the top row ... the one on the left touches the header, the one on the right has a gap at the top.



That picture is just funny as hell I almost get dizzy just looking at it.  Up here I have seen many of these issues due to frost heave.  When I was a young guy I saw structural damage due to bentonite clay.  Many of the builder's in my area used to bury trees and stumps on the lots which forever settle - so I have responded to lots of structural damage because of these bury pits.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Question ... is the problem that they are using the wrong size?  Doesnt look like it wraps far enough around the smaller wire.  And i assume they are allowed by code, otherwise you would have (reluctantly) issued a citation.


The c-tap is too small.  There is a specific tool that’s required for the crimping of the c-tap.  That tool will emboss a number where it engages the copper.  The number corresponds to a particular die for the specific c-tap.  That didn’t happen and almost never does.  Beyond all of that, this is a bare copper grounding electrode conductor to ground rods.....in a planter .....that requires protection from physical damage.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Not sure i agree.  Look at the raised panels in the top row ... the one on the left touches the header, the one on the right has a gap at the top.


I put a ruler on the picture and they are too close to say otherwise.  I saw the different reveal and wondered if it’s just the door.....everything looks like the day it was built but something is way off.


----------



## ICE

A new circuit for an EV charger.


----------



## my250r11




----------



## Pcinspector1

If it's a #6 AWG GEC and free from physical damage the GEC can be run along the building surface without protection if secured. If not it would need protection, preferably in conduit.


I don't know the GEC size but assume that the GEC is a #6 AWG:

Question: Would you classify this install free from physical damage?



ICE said:


> Beyond all of that, this is a bare copper grounding electrode conductor to ground rods.....in a planter .....that requires protection from physical damage.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Question: Would you classify this install free from physical damage?



No.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE, I already knew your answer, and concur with your opinion!


----------



## ICE

Underground service entrance with metallic conduit.


----------



## ICE

Condenser replacement:


----------



## ICE

Replacement furnace in a closet.  It goes with the condenser above.




The previous vent has been cut with tin snips.  A section of single wall has been pushed inside and a flexible B-Vent is in the single wall.

\


----------



## jar546

Your photos are amazing.  I am going to assume that in order to get a license to do electrical work, you just need a business card?


----------



## ICE

A California contractors license is no indication of competence. There are businesses that prepare people to take the test for a license. It’s the same for inspector certifications.


----------



## TheCommish

OMW, I am not an electrical  inspector  and I can tell that is wrong


----------



## ICE

I hear inspectors saying that they do not go on roofs for inspections.  The contractor for this job must have figured I was one of them as I had to ask for a ladder.









I'm no legal scholar but it seems to me that if a licensed contractor walked away from this he would bear a legal responsibility if it fell into the back yard.  What the Hell, it's not attached at all.


----------



## conarb

Tiger:

Who ties you off when you go onto roofs, do you carry your own gear?  You wouldn't want to violate CalOSHA would you?


----------



## Inspector Gift

conarb said:


> Tiger:
> 
> Who ties you off when you go onto roofs, do you carry your own gear?  You wouldn't want to violate CalOSHA would you?


  Give Tiger a break, Conarb.   As you well know, the first guy up is never tied off.


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> Tiger:
> 
> Who ties you off when you go onto roofs, do you carry your own gear?  You wouldn't want to violate CalOSHA would you?


The only time that I have been tied off was in the delivery room.


----------



## conarb

Inspector Gift said:


> Give Tiger a break, Conarb.   As you well know, the first guy up is never tied off.


 A few years ago, I believe it was in Marin County, an inspector was on a roof and a contractor happened to drive by and see him, he turned him into CalOSHA and it made all the papers.  If it was me I wouldn't have done that, I would have taken a picture with my cell phone, the next time Tiger came by one of my jobs and wrote my up I'd whip out my cell phone, show him the picture, and say: "Now Tiger you don't really want to write me up do you?"


----------



## ICE

I brought you this picture earlier.  A correction was written to, "Provide 30"wide by 36" deep working space in front of the A/C disconnect.





I was there today for the corrections.  The condenser has been rotated 90°.  The guy said that is what I told them to do.





I was dealing with a legitimate, licensed mechanical contractor.  They have trucks and uniforms but not much else.  I finally pointed out the service panel within reach of the condenser.  I resisted doing that.  I didn't want to do it....really I didn't.  I was miffed that they can be so clueless yet take on these jobs.  I gave in because they'll never get it if we don't teach them.  That's a jacked up system.


----------



## conarb

Tiger, I don't know, isn't there a requirement that a condenser must be a certain distance from a window?  Looks like the hot air is going to blow right back through that window.


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> Tiger, I don't know, isn't there a requirement that a condenser must be a certain distance from a window?  Looks like the hot air is going to blow right back through that window.


That’s common sense.  If they have common sense the window will be closed when the A/C is running.  The window to stay away from is a bedroom window.


----------



## ICE

Before:





After:


----------



## e hilton

Lovely. They have created required clearance but have also caused an unacceptable condition.


----------



## Msradell

e hilton said:


> Lovely. They have created required clearance but have also caused an unacceptable condition.


It's certainly an unmanageable condition but I'm not sure what's unacceptable about it. Would you please elaborate on what's unacceptable.


----------



## e hilton

If i was the homeowner i woupd refuse to pay until the retaining was was finished.  You cant leave a 2 ft high section of dirt with no support, and rough block ends.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> What the Hell, it's not attached at all.



Ice ... i think the rotted lumber is an issue, but not the non-attachment to ths roof.   I think all the lateral forces are being handled by the multiple rows of posts into the ground, all thats happening on the roof ends is that the roof is carrying the downward force.  They have not penetrated the roof membrane, so no potential leaks, and the ... pergola? ... is free to shift a little when the wind blows.  But ... i'm not sure the rafter ends are properly landed on the shingles, seems like any movement is going to scrape off the granules pretty quickly, and then start wearing a hole in the shingle.


----------



## Norcal

ICE said:


> A new circuit for an EV charger.]



The EMT connector on the inside of the panel is a nice touch, goes with the Sawzall hack on the dead front. 
You ask for paperwork showing Siemens breakers being UL classified for Bryant* panels?

*Bryant/Westinghouse/Cutler-Hammer/Eaton, BR, I just call em "Zinsco II".


----------



## Norcal

Norcal said:


> The EMT connector on the inside of the panel is a nice touch, goes with the Sawzall hack on the dead front.
> You ask for paperwork showing Siemens breakers being UL classified for Bryant* panels?
> 
> *Bryant/Westinghouse/Cutler-Hammer/Eaton, BR, I just call em "Zinsco II".


Edit, the cuts look more like a Dremel was used.


----------



## tmurray

conarb said:


> A few years ago, I believe it was in Marin County, an inspector was on a roof and a contractor happened to drive by and see him, he turned him into CalOSHA and it made all the papers.  If it was me I wouldn't have done that, I would have taken a picture with my cell phone, the next time Tiger came by one of my jobs and wrote my up I'd whip out my cell phone, show him the picture, and say: "Now Tiger you don't really want to write me up do you?"


Ah. Blackmail. There's some integrity.


----------



## ICE

tmurray said:


> Ah. Blackmail. There's some integrity.


He wouldn't try it twice.


----------



## ICE

It is dead flat.  I'm not sure what it is but I was told that the roofer did it.


----------



## Msradell

It looks like somebody's trying to make a shower.


----------



## ICE

Msradell said:


> It looks like somebody's trying to make a shower.



Yes they are and they have an idea of what it should look like.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> Yes they are and they have an idea of what it should look like.


 Have y'all looked at the tile forum johnbridge.com?  They have extensive pictures of bad tile jobs, predominantly showers, that have gone bad. Some are frighttenly stupid, makes you wonder if its their first time.


----------



## ICE

New swimming pool.  The equipment is in the shed.



https://flic.kr/p/2g6ri5W


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Have y'all looked at the tile forum johnbridge.com?  They have extensive pictures of bad tile jobs, predominantly showers, that have gone bad. Some are frighttenly stupid, makes you wonder if its their first time.


Thanks for the link.


----------



## ICE

I have not been here before today.  Another inspector has inherited this job and I had to fill in for a day.




The house is mostly gone and there is an addition being built at the back.  The contractor requested a footing inspection.











This panel was in the original building.  There is framing from that building still attached to this panel.  I was told that this job has languished for several years and there is now a new contractor taking over.  So he calls for an inspection without paying attention to the work.  For starters, I refused to give him an inspection.  Then I made it clear that he has ten days to erect a temporary power pole and if he fails Edison will cut off the power.

The contractor went straight to the office to complain.  He claims that I am not being helpful.


----------



## ICE

It is a large house.



https://flic.kr/p/2g6s9Bf



That's disconnects for six condensers.  I didn't walk to the other side but there's probably a group of tankless water heaters.


----------



## ICE

Speaking of tankless water heaters, I see them done wrong more often than done right.




I think they push them up high to protect it. The clearances are right there in front of them.

But nobody tells them to keep it 4' from a window opening.  This one is 30".




Another thing that nobody explains to them is the remote control.  It's on a long wire for a reason.


----------



## e hilton

_Speaking of tankless water heaters, I see them done wrong more often than done right_.

Should there be insulation on the hot water line?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> _Speaking of tankless water heaters, I see them done wrong more often than done right_.
> 
> Should there be insulation on the hot water line?


Well I suppose it wouldn’t hurt but I think there’s not much benefit.


----------



## ICE

I was there for a re-roof final inspection.  I have not been on this property before today.  The contractor was thoughtful enough to provide a ladder.




I couldn't get on the roof so I asked the renter to let me inspect the smoke and co alarms.  I was informed that there are disabled people living there.  It was explained that under the American with Disabilities Act I am bared from entry because that would deny the disabled people their right to privacy.


----------



## ICE

This is a tank-less water heater.  The vent looks oh so suspicious.








Here it is passing through an attic.







Continues in the next thread....because I can post only four pictures in a thread:


----------



## ICE

The label states that this water heater requires a special vent and that information will be found in the installation instructions, which they didn't have.  The venting looks like Fred Sanford put it together.




They also did a PEX re-pipe.




There's an engineer out there that's thinking, "Gotta love inspectors."


----------



## Pcinspector1

e hilton said:


> Have y'all looked at the tile forum johnbridge.com?  They have extensive pictures of bad tile jobs, predominantly showers, that have gone bad. Some are frighttenly stupid, makes you wonder if its their first time.



We just wait for ICE to post something!


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> But nobody tells them to keep it 4' from a window opening. This one is 30".


or the top within 3-ft to an overhang


----------



## ICE

A licensed electrical contractor did this.  The correction stated, "The roof jack is a mess.  Hire a roofer."


----------



## Mech

What are the four reddish orange roof tiles on the right in the first photo - previously capped pipes / conduit?


----------



## ICE

Mech said:


> What are the four reddish orange roof tiles on the right in the first photo - previously capped pipes / conduit?



Plumbing vents and exhaust fans.


----------



## ICE

This is all new construction.  There is a balcony above where I was standing.  The dark lines are evidence of water intrusion.




Long ago I wrote a correction to "Provide an ICC ESR for the balcony walking surface material."  The contractor ignored me and finished the work.  ......Well he thinks that he is finished.


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> This is all new construction.  There is a balcony above where I was standing.  The dark lines are evidence of water intrusion.
> 
> Long ago I wrote a correction to "Provide an ICC ESR for the balcony walking surface material."  The contractor ignored me and finished the work.  ......Well he thinks that he is finished.



Tiger:

You have stumbled into a real problem, over the years several things have happened, in 1978 the EPA banned lead in solder, the result is few flashing joints are (or remain) waterproof, sealant in flashing seldom lasts more than a few years.  In the past the best waterproofing for decks was hot mopped asphalt, the environmental wackos have made hot mopping almost impossible.  My old roofer had 15 kettles and a large tanker truck, he ended up scrapping them all, they are still allowed in Texas but it was't worth sending them down there so he sent everything to scrap yards. What they are using now is what they call "liquid applied membranes", in the trade we call them "paint-ons".  I met a guy who leased roofs, most large warehouses and buildings now lease their "liquid applied" roofs since maintenance is constant, others are using "torch downs" but insurance is impossible with several buildings burning down by roofers with torches, another is Bituthene, that's what they used in the infamous Berkeley balcony collapse when 5 PEOPLE were killed. It's not illegal but if they fire up a kettle all kinds of eco-freaks will call and complain about the smoke and smell, they used to tow them home at night but now they are inundated with phone calls, after all, asphalt is made from the dreaded "fossil fuels".


----------



## ICE

It was not "five drunken Irishmen" killed.  It was six.  They were not all men and there's no indication, other than being from Ireland, that they were drunk.  Seven more lived through a five story plummet to the ground.  The root cause is a greedy contractor.  A sleezy, no good son of a bitch with a license to kill.

Well then Conarb, You had something to say about decks, asphalt and Texas but that went out the window when I read drunken Irishmen.  Six kids getting ready to start a fruitful journey.  Seven more slammed to the ground in a life altering blow.

It's one thing to not show respect for others.  Your need to show disrespect is getting in the way.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> This is all new construction.  There is a balcony above where I was standing.  The dark lines are evidence of water intrusion.
> .


 Does it look like the water is running down the face of the wall, or inside the wall?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Does it look like the water is running down the face of the wall, or inside the wall?


The water was inside the wall.  There is mold at the baseboard.


----------



## ICE

There was a recent discussion of wrapping wire around a screw.  The awful mess roof jack electrician did this.


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> It was not "five drunken Irishmen" killed.  It was six.  They were not all men and there's no indication, other than being from Ireland, that they were drunk.  Seven more lived through a five story plummet to the ground.  The root cause is a greedy contractor.  A sleezy, no good son of a bitch with a license to kill.
> 
> Well then Conarb, You had something to say about decks, asphalt and Texas but that went out the window when I read drunken Irishmen.  Six were kids getting ready to start a fruitful journey.  Seven were slammed to the ground and handed a life altering blow.
> 
> It's one thing to not show respect for others.  Your need to show disrespect is getting in the way.



Tiger:

They were drinking, the evidence didn't go into whether they were drunk or not, but they were from Ireland, the expert reports were that the cause was the "greedy" contractor substituting OSB for plywood, OSB is a code compliant material, I'm sure that had the specified plywood been used the balcony wouldn't have failed that night, killing those people, but it would have eventually failed, it failed because of leaks in the flashings and/or Bituthene membrane.  My point is that had the metal flashing been soldered with real lead-based solder, and/or the membrane been hot mopped it would not have happened.

I also might say that had the city inspectors inspected the flashing and membrane installation maybe it wouldn't have failed, of course inspectors don't inspect things like that, I have never had an inspector inspect solder joints or felt plies in a membrane.


----------



## ICE

I would have no problem jailing architects, engineers, contractors and inspectors on that job.  I could probably lose my temper and burn the roach coach.


----------



## ICE




----------



## tmurray

conarb said:


> Tiger:
> 
> They were drinking, the evidence didn't go into whether they were drunk or not, but they were from Ireland, the expert reports were that the cause was the "greedy" contractor substituting OSB for plywood, OSB is a code compliant material, I'm sure that had the specified plywood been used the balcony wouldn't have failed that night, killing those people, but it would have eventually failed, it failed because of leaks in the flashings and/or Bituthene membrane.  My point is that had the metal flashing been soldered with real lead-based solder, and/or the membrane been hot mopped it would not have happened.
> 
> I also might say that had the city inspectors inspected the flashing and membrane installation maybe it wouldn't have failed, of course inspectors don't inspect things like that, I have never had an inspector inspect solder joints or felt plies in a membrane.



Just because it is code compliant does not mean it can be readily substituted one for another. As I'm sure you know, OSB and plywood have no where near the same performance when it comes to an environment where it will be exposed to moisture. Would plywood have failed eventually? Absolutely. So would everything. Things must be maintained. Material selection drives the maintenance schedule.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> A licensed electrical contractor did this.  The correction stated, "The roof jack is a mess.  Hire a roofer."
> 
> 
> View attachment 5362
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5363



That's pretty bad...and still might work. If called into court what will be the code violation? R903.3 Flashing? CBC?


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> View attachment 5451


Is that a furnace vent or a vent fan for a bathroom? In either case it's a mess but if it's a furnace vent it's a complete disaster and probably very dangerous.


----------



## ICE

Msradell said:


> Is that a furnace vent or a vent fan for a bathroom? In either case it's a mess but if it's a furnace vent it's a complete disaster and probably very dangerous.


It is a furnace vent.  They reused an existing portion of vent through the roof for a new furnace.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> That's pretty bad...and still might work. If called into court what will be the code violation? R903.3 Flashing? CBC?


A picture is worth a thousand codes.


----------



## ICE

I inspected a carnival yesterday.




This is on the fence for this ride:




They forgot Astronaut Training.


----------



## ICE

The job is a PEX re-pipe.  This is located in a closet that is under the stairs to the second floor.  The plumber exposed it so he gets to fix it.


----------



## ICE




----------



## mtlogcabin

If that is gas piping where is the sediment trap?


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> I inspected a carnival yesterday.
> 
> This is on the fence for this ride:
> 
> View attachment 5494
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



The information on that sign is similar to my job description requirements.


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:


> If that is gas piping where is the sediment trap?


I guess I'm not that vigilant when it comes to sediment traps.  For one, they are never and I mean never installed correctly and the Gas Company says that the gas is clean enough to not need them. The problem with this gas pipe is the three vertical feet that is not secured to anything.


----------



## ICE

Would you ask them to remove the pieces that are separated by cracks? I encounter this often enough that I wonder if it's just me. Perhaps it covers up well and stays put for a long time.


----------



## ICE

A solar contractor took the responsibility of getting a permit for a bootlegged panel.  They figured it was going to be a walk in the park.  There's 32" clearance from the wall to the panel.




When I asked about the grounding electrode system I was shown this pipe at the water heater.




The stroll in the park turned into a mugging.  The first correction was to relocate the panel .....the next seven were really just a learning opportunity.


----------



## steveray

The sediment trap and/or drip is usually required in the manufacturers installation instructions and NFPA 54.....


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> I guess I'm not that vigilant when it comes to sediment traps.  For one, they are never and I mean never installed correctly and the Gas Company says that the gas is clean enough to not need them. The problem with this gas pipe is the three vertical feet that is not secured to anything.
> 
> View attachment 5496



On an attic furnace install, where do they (the installer) typically leave the install instructions? In the attic?


----------



## Paul Sweet

"On an attic furnace install, where do they (the installer) typically leave the install instructions? In the attic?"

More likely in the trash or the back of the truck.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> On an attic furnace install, where do they (the installer) typically leave the install instructions? In the attic?


It varies. Sometimes the owner has a copy.  Sometimes that copy is for a different model furnace.  That happens with contractors too....and not just a different model....different manufacturer.....I’ve heard, “They are all the same.”


----------



## ICE

The apartment was on fire.




Most of the wall finish was heavily damaged.



The fire department might have forgotten one of their ladders.


Except the only bedroom.  Apparently the door was closed and it didn't burn through.


----------



## ICE

The HDs and the all-thread are on the plans.  A little different than this.  The HD on the right is supposed to be mounted on the othe side of the wall that is set at a right angle to the all-thread.  Inside the other room as it were.  The reason that it didn't happen that way has to do with the post cap with a beam saddle that is in the way.  They figured that it was too difficult to drill through the saddle...

Well this is not in my area and I was there helping out ....for roof sheathing only.  I mentioned it to the responsible inspector.


----------



## e hilton

What ard the HD's supposed to be doing?  Tieing together a couple of joists ... but in this example whats on the other side of the wall?  
I can see that drilling through the saddle could be difficult, and might compromise the saddle.  Is this going go pass?  
On the fire ... what is your role?   To determine if the building is safe?  Interesting that the bedroom apparently did not have any smoke damage either.


----------



## my250r11

Has been mentioned several times on this forum, and i have seen it personally many times, any door being closed will slow or stop the fire.


----------



## ICE

The blocking between the joists is doubled.  There is a nail on strap on the floor above that spans the entire room.  There is a similar arrangement on the other side of the beam.  The HDs and all-thread are meant to drag one floor diaphragm to the other.

I am sent to buildings that have been damaged by whatever...fire, flood, earthquake, car crash.  That’s if the Fire dept. calls it in.

 Not long ago SWAT tore up a house because a man was shooting at the neighbors.  Every last window was busted out and many of the window frames were ripped apart. There’s dents aplenty where tear gas rounds missed the hole.

The home owner insurance is paying to repair the house and part of the scope is replacing receptacles, switches and light fixtures because of the exposure to tear gas.


----------



## JPohling

I wonder what the limits of the insurance company repairs are for something like this when self inflicted.
I could use an electrical upgrade!


----------



## ICE

The shooter was the owner’s son.  Every electrical item from alarm clocks to the refrigerator is being replaced by the insurance company.  Not the wiring or service panel which is on the outside.


----------



## ICE

None of the pipe in the first picture has been glued together.
The next picture is why the pipe in the first picture is not glued together.




They have progressed beyond the under-slab plumbing and have attempted a pair of shower pans.








I used to be surprised at the balls to the wall inexperience......this is a good example of the "We are educators and are duty bound to explain the details of the defects and solutions."  I went as far as to write "Hire a shower pan installer for a built-up pan."  I did not tell them why.

Today I went on the third inspection for smoke and CO alarms on a re-roof job.  They failed again....this is after two explanations with handouts.  The only thing that I said today was, "Not yet."  The owner says that he takes time off work to meet me.  I wondered what his employer thinks about this.


----------



## mark handler

*https://www.oatey.com/ASSETS/DOCUMENTS/ITEMS/EN/showerpanliner.pdf*









https://www.pascospecialty.com/catalog/Shower_Pan_Liner.pdf
https://www.cityofpaloalto.org/civicax/filebank/documents/17795
https://www.ipscorp.com/pdf/watertite/Watertite_ShowerPanLiner_InstallInst_Sep09.pdf


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> None of the pipe in the first picture has been glued together.
> The next picture is why the pipe in the first picture is not glued together.



Ok, just so im clear ... they glued the pipe together wrong the first time, so the second time its cut and installed but not glued ... just in case?  What did you tell them?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> What did you tell them?


“One more time should do it.”

The truth about plumbing is that .....well how to say this without offending plumbers.....you really have to work at screwing it up before it is a legitimate problem.  The office I work in generally has the same inspectors for years at a time.  There was an addition recently and this new inspector writes lots of plumbing corrections.  He's a genuine plumbing code guru.  A ninja with a faucet.  He will be here for a while and when he's gone we will be back to, "Plumbing never killed anybody.  If the water drains out; it's all good."


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> I inspected a carnival yesterday.



Can we go back to the carnival?  How do you inspect a carnival?   You can look for obvious things ... bad electrical connections, egress routes etc ... but do you inspect the rides for safety?  Seems like that would be a real specialty.  Unfortunately every time someone gets hurt on a ride at a shopping center carnival, the newpaper is certain to include the sentence "the rides were inspected last week and passed"


----------



## ICE

I can't say that I know how to inspect a carnival.  I have done it about thirty times.  I have not had any training for inspecting carnivals.  The only information that has ever been provided is the address and a site plan.

I look for the obvious safety issues that you mentioned....and a whole lot more.  Every restraint, braking mechanisms, clearances to trees - wires - fences - other rides.  I operate the ride and check the RPMs to make sure that it is within the manufacture’s guidelines.  Then there's the State sticker that tells me that Cal/OSHA has inspected and approved the ride.

The list of corrections that I have written includes the wrong size cotter key to no emergency lighting in the Gravitron.

Here is a picture of a Gravitron.  It is a sealed ride that spins.  Once at speed (24 rpm) the occupant is suspended and plastered against the wall (3 Gs) with no contact with the floor.  If the electricity is cut the door will not open until someone from outside the ride pulls it down.  The first time I encountered this ride I asked about emergency lighting while the occupants wait to exit (in total darkness).  I was told that it didn't come from the factory with emergency lighting and I can't make them alter a ride.  Besides that, it had a State sticker.  I've run into several of these and they always leave town with emergency lighting.




If you have to inspect one of these be aware that the slide that the occupant is on should have intact feet protection plates behind the slide.  If they are missing a persons legs can be caught and broken when the ride cycles down.  For that reason you must make them lift every slide.  The slides are heavy, it's hot inside that can and there's 48. I have found missing plates.


The next ride is a Dragon Wagon kids roller coaster.  There are several versions that differ in the method of propulsion.  Some have a chain drive and others have an electric motor behind the seat in the last car.  A week before I encountered my first Dragon Wagon I watched a 20/20 episode on a carnival accident where a girl was scalped when her long hair was caught in the electric motor.  She lost her entire scalp and it was not reattached.  So now I have that same ride with no protection of the motor.  As horrific as that accident was, the carnival operator resisted fabricating a shroud over the motor.  I was disappointed, he was disappointed and the ride now has a shroud over the motor.




Another thing to look for with the Dragon Wagon is the rails that it rides on.  These machines are old.  The rail will have repairs.  The welds are sometimes amateurish.  I have found cracks in welds.  I always require that the part be taken to an LA City certified welding facility for repair.  I have posted carnival pictures here at the forum....I think that's one of them.

There was a large ride that has swing seats on long chains.  It was fast and as it rotated it would tilt back and forth producing one Hell of a ride. When it got up to speed I noticed that that at each revolution there was a loud sound  .......  like someone hitting an empty garbage can with an ax handle.  I asked, "What's up with that?" He shrugged as he said, "It started happening last weekend in West Covina".

It didn't take much effort to remove this seat belt strap.








In the thirty or so that I have inspected I guess the average carnival results in twenty corrections.....some more some less.  One year the carnival operators banded together and threatened to boycott the city I was working in unless a different inspector took over.  The city declined ... preferring instead to have a safe carnival.  I really shouldn't say safe carnival.

It takes hours to do it right.  I never leave with a good feeling that I caught everything.


----------



## ICE

I am the person that has to sign the permit which allows the carnival to operate.  No education, training or background for such a thing.  I don't know why anybody would think that this is a good plan Stan.  Shirley I know better.

The Tilt-a-Whirl ride in the picture has individual cars for the thrill seekers delight.  Each car has a brake that holds the car in position while the people enter and exit the ride.  There's usually one or two cars with a faulty brake.  You must operate the ride, stop the ride and then push on each car to find the bad ones.

And then there is the booths and their electrical.  The food court with ovens, fryers, bbqs and not enough fire extinguishers.







One year to the next...it's been done like this a thousand times.  In the early days they would look at me like I was loony.  Nowadays they shake their head and say, "Ya, that's not right."





When cribbing is supporting a large ride the rule is that it shall be toe-nailed together.  For a reason that escapes me I get extra push-back on that.


----------



## mark handler

*Is this the ticket taker?*


----------



## e hilton

mark handler said:


> *Is this the ticket taker?*



Or the safety officer.


----------



## ICE

Some installation instructions state that Transite vent pipe can't be incorporated in the new vent.  I have had contractors tell me that they can't remove it because it contains asbestos.


----------



## ICE

This was the service entrance conduit.  It was behind drywall.  The drywall was removed and the conduit was cut open to expose the service entrance conductors.  The conductors were tapped to bypass the meter and there was an illegal marijuana grow in the house.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> The drywall was removed and the conduit was cut open to expose the service entrance conductors.



Im sure they pulled the meter before cutting into the conduit full of live wires.  Thats desparate.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Im sure they pulled the meter before cutting into the conduit full of live wires.  Thats desparate.


The wires are before the meter and live with or without a meter installed.


----------



## ICE

Patio covers are simple projects.  Aluminum patio covers are easy to build.  The method is spelled out in no uncertain terms.  The profits can be enormous. This patio cover is 25'x21'.


----------



## ICE

There was a service panel upgrade associated with a solar project.  I had to verify a jumper between the hot, cold, and gas pipes at the water heater.  I found this:




There was no doubt that it was dangerous so I made the owner move it ....or so I thought.  Instead of moving the tankless water heater he replaced it with a storage tank water heater.  The water heater is now too close to a property line.




I just don't understand why people don't give these things room to breath.


----------



## ICE

It was left like this for hours with the workman sitting in a van at the street.  He couldn't see it.  Not only are the covers off but the door is open wide.  There are small to medium size children living there.  The workman told me that he alerted the housewife of the danger.  He said that inspectors become upset if the covers aren't removed before they arrive. I'd like to be there for that.  The damnable thing about this is that he was telling the truth about inspectors.  If you are one of those inspectors, you shouldn't be....an inspector.  A broom handle is the closest you should get to real construction.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Ice, Do the installers typically sticker or label the conduits going to the sunny boy's?


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> It was left like this for hours with the workman sitting in a van at the street.  He couldn't see it.  Not only are the covers off but the door is open wide.  There are small to medium size children living there.  The workman told me that he alerted the housewife of the danger.  He said that inspectors become upset if the covers aren't removed before they arrive. I'd like to be there for that.  The damnable thing about this is that he was telling the truth about inspectors.  If you are one of those inspectors, you shouldn't be....an inspector.  A broom handle is the closest you should get to real construction.



Well Tiger here you go again, it's none of your business if the face's are left off the panels, as I've said before here most inspectors take a screw driver and remove them themselves, in many instances I tell them to forget about putting them back in, I'll have the electrician do it, and these are inspectors not allowed to walk roofs.  Frankly I'd be more worried about those Tesla Power Packs blowing up.


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> Well Tiger were you go again, it's none of your business if the face's are left off the panels, as I've said before here most inspectors take a screw driver and remove them themselves, in many instances I tell them to forget about putting them back in, I'll have the electrician do it, and these are inspectors not allowed to walk roofs.  Frankly I'd be more worried about those Tesla Power Packs blowing up.


Who’s business is it?  Help me out with this. Tell me who I should contact. Or are you saying that I should ignore the danger?


----------



## conarb

ICE said:


> Who’s business is it?  Help me out with this. Tell me who I should contact. Or are you saying that I should ignore the danger?



To begin with it's none of your business, do like they do around here, open and close it yourself.  Every hardwood floor layer I've ever had opens the main and attaches his alligator clips to run his sanders and polishers, they stay open for about one week in the average large new home.  I asked one once why he didn't get pigtails that would plug into 30 amp dryer outlets or 50 amp range outlets, he said no that they always do it that way. 

If you want to go beyond code enforcement in the interests of safety get a gun and handcuffs and arrest all of the illegals you find on jobsites.


----------



## e hilton

conarb said:


> it's none of your business if the face's are left off the panels



Actually it is.  You could argue that the inspector should be opening their own panels, but safety is everyones business.  Especially here, where you know small kids are around and the contractor is out of sight of the unsecured panels.   
Lets take it to the next step.  Kid finds the panel open, gets shocked.  Parents sue everyone in sight including Ice, because he knew it was unsafe and did not take reasonable action to prevent the accident.  It wasnt his fault the panels were left open, but once he knew they were not safe he becomes an accomplice by staying silent.  And then i would go after the experienced professionals on the internet who said it was ok to leave them open.


----------



## conarb

I don't know exactly where Tiger works but it's somewhere in the Los Angles basin, codes have driven housing costs so high that people are living on the streets, it's no reached crisis level and Tiger is concerned about panel faces,



> The city of Los Angeles is quickly descending into a cesspool of decay and disease.  With bubonic plague now likely present amongst residents, the city and the state of California are on the verge of becoming a third-world hellscape.  Some say that that’s already happened…
> 
> California’s burgeoning homeless camps are not the most hygienic places to live, obviously.  And with the homeless population growing daily, the encampments are becoming more dangerous when it comes to crime and disease. Dr. Drew Pinsky said this month that there has been a total and complete breakdown of services in the city that has placed the population at risk of infection and other health-related issues.
> 
> “We have a complete breakdown of the basic needs of civilization in Los Angeles right now,” Pinsky told _Fox News_ host Laura Ingraham. “We have the three prongs of airborne disease, tuberculosis is exploding, rodent-borne. We are one of the only cities in the country that doesn’t have a rodent control program, and sanitation has broken down.” Pinsky said bubonic plague, which is also known as the “Black Death,” a pandemic that killed off millions in the 14th century, is “likely” already present in Los Angeles. The plague is spread by infected fleas and exposure to bodily fluids from a dead plague-infected animal, with the bacteria entering through the skin and traveling to lymph nodes.
> 
> “*This is unbelievable. I can’t believe I live in a city where this is not Third World. This is medieval*,” Pinsky said, according to _Fox News_. *“Third World countries are insulted if they are accused of being like this. No city on Earth tolerates this. The entire population is at risk.”*¹



I read an article the other day about city fees driving costs up:



> *Allow me to explain another mechanism of rampant inflation triggered by local government.* Cities and counties discovered a new revenue source in the late 20th century: real estate development fees. Building permits that once cost a few hundred dollars now cost thousands of dollars, and a host of new fees are now standard: sewer hookup fees, plan review fees, and development fees.
> Then there are transfer fees for every sale of real estate, and mandated subsidized housing requirements for new apartment buildings: a percentage of the new apartments must be made available at below-market rents for qualified tenants. The cost of the subsidized units are borne by the owner/developer, not the taxpayer, so the subsidy in effect raises the market rents.
> *Partly as a result of these local government fees, the cost of building new apartments is very high.* As a result, rents are also higher. If demand is strong, some desperate (or rich) tenants will pay the much higher rent.
> The owners of existing buildings look at the high rents and their natural response is to raise their rents accordingly: the new market price for a one-bedroom apartment has been set by the high-cost new building, and rents throughout the city ratchet higher.
> *The same dynamic pushes commercial rents higher, too.* The ground-floor commercial space in the new complex is rented out at sky-high rates to a corporate chain, and suddenly that insanely high rent is the new baseline for every equivalent space in the city.
> *When an old building is demolished to make way for a new apartment complex with ground-floor commercial spaces, the old tenants never return: they can no longer afford the rent.* As I've discussed here before, this gentrification drives out diversity, leaving the city's commercial districts a homogenized, lifeless cluster of Corporate America outlets.
> 
> *One reason the economy is so much more precarious than advertised is inflation has pushed households and small businesses to the edge--and one engine of that inflation is local government.* This is not to dump on local government, which is facing essentially unlimited demands from the public for more services while mandated cost increases in government union employee wages and benefits ratchet higher.
> Since personnel costs are 70+% of city and county budgets, those ever-increasing payroll, pension and benefits costs are the key driver of budgets expanding.
> *But local governments' ability to increase revenues are also essentially unlimited.* There are all sorts of fees that can be created or increased if outright tax increases have been voted down by the public.
> What amounts to blackmail is generally effective, however: _if you want the giant potholes filled in your streets, you have to pass this municipal bond--or else_.²





¹ https://www.shtfplan.com/headline-n...erge-of-becoming-a-third-world-state_06262019

² http://charleshughsmith.blogspot.com/2019/06/local-government-is-engine-of-inflation.html


----------



## fatboy

Another thread spinning out of control........give it a rest CA!


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> To begin with it's none of your business, do like they do around here, open and close it yourself.  Every hardwood floor layer I've ever had opens the main and attaches his alligator clips to run his sanders and polishers, they stay open for about one week in the average large new home.  I asked one once why he didn't get pigtails that would plug into 30 amp dryer outlets or 50 amp range outlets, he said no that they always do it that way.
> 
> If you want to go beyond code enforcement in the interests of safety get a gun and handcuffs and arrest all of the illegals you find on jobsites.



I don’t expect everyone to understand.

I used to remove deadfront covers.  I would rather not have the contractor present during the inspection.  The problem with that is the dept. policy which has always been that we don’t remove anything. There are many new people performing inspections that shouldn’t remove covers. It is not fair to those people or contractors if I continue to remove deadfronts.  So a couple years ago I quit doing it.


----------



## fatboy

Not wanting to start anything, but I am confused, yes normal state of mind. 

You can't remove covers due to policy...... you don't want the covers off before you get there, for safety........ but you don't want the contractor there when you are inspecting? How is this supposed to work? Please clarify.


----------



## ICE

I used to remove the covers and the contractor was seldom there.  That’s the way I like it.  The way it is now, the contractor is there...sitting in a truck with the covers removed.  That means that as I write the corrections I get a running diatribe complaining about the corrections.  That takes time.....I don’t want to waste time.  Especially with some worker that didn’t do the work and doesn’t understand the work.  It is his job to be there and argue about everything.


----------



## ICE

Me:  "The condensate pump can't be in the return air plenum"
Contractor:  "It's not in the plenum"
Me:  "Where is it"
Contractor:  "That's not a condensate pump"
Me:  "Alrighty then, what is it"
Contractor:  "I don't know but it's not a pump in a plenum; that's not allowed"
Me:  "This is going to require a semicolon"


----------



## ADAguy

Why should they? Its the contractors responsibility to correct their "mistakes" (failure to comply) not yours.


----------



## Rick18071

I asked my inspection company for PPE safety equipment and their answer is don't look at anything live.

ICE, do you use PPE safety equipment when inspection live parts?


----------



## ICE

Rick18071 said:


> ICE, do you use PPE safety equipment when inspection live parts?


No. I rarely get beyond 240 volt equipment.  There have been a few 12,000 volt installations but I do not recall any inspections of live equipment and I wouldn't get within 20' of 12,000 volt, exposed live parts.  Just looking at the insulation on a 12,000 volt conductor is evidence enough to stay far away from it.


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for a water heater replacement.  The owner stated that the work was done three weeks ago.


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for a new furnace and A/C.  Many corrections.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> The inspection was for a water heater replacement.  The owner stated that the work was done three weeks ago.



How is this install possible? Looks like a new water heater with old discharge piping? How did they get that attached to the pop-off?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> How did they get that attached to the pop-off?



In the front yard.


----------



## Pcinspector1

That makes sense, threaded the whole assembly then dragged the tank inside to install.


----------



## ADAguy

Condensate drain to where?


----------



## ICE

ADAguy said:


> Condensate drain to where?


Well it has no slope so saying that it drains is incorrect.  As dust builds up we can say that it stagnates.


----------



## ICE

Owner builder permit for a re-roof.  There's four of these.




The owner hired a crew from the Home Depot parking lot.  The owner has not been on the roof.


----------



## steveray

We are responsible for arc flash gear if we remove panel covers....We do not....


----------



## steveray

8# dead load is a little light on the roof...Amazed it goes up to 50LL....


----------



## ICE

Contractor requested a sheathing inspection.  The plan is to replace only the underlay and reuse everything else.














I am not sure what the tile looked like when it was new.  I suspect it was red with a glaze.  Now it is weathered and falling apart.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> Now it is weathered and falling apart.



I dont think there is anything wrong with the tiles.   They were cast a little rough, and even the parts that were covered by the next higher tile are the same color. 
What does concern me is the concentrated load of all the tiles stacked up there.  Looks like another Lucky Casino waitng to happen.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> I dont think there is anything wrong with the tiles.   They were cast a little rough, and even the parts that were covered by the next higher tile are the same color.
> What does concern me is the concentrated load of all the tiles stacked up there.  Looks like another Lucky Casino waitng to happen.


I don't think that the pictures do it justice.


----------



## Norcal

ICE said:


> The wires are before the meter and live with or without a meter installed.



And there is NO overcurrent protection ahead of the main breaker/ fusible switch if there is one. That is what makes those photos of steel conduits being cut to steal power so scary.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> I don't think that the pictures do it justice.



Clearly that's the photographers fault.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Clearly that's the photographers fault.


Give me an address and I’ll send you a tile.


----------



## ICE

The site plan shows two 600 gallon tanks.  There's no description of the tanks or any details. I found the leaders and drain pipe.  The idea is to take the water from roof drains and put it in the tanks.






Neither tank has been placed per plan.  That's because they would have been in/under the driveway and there's already water pipe, building sewer pipe, gas pipe and conduit under the driveway.

The six inch schedule 40 has no cleanouts and none are shown on the plan.  There is no provision for draining the tanks once they are full except for the fact that the inlet and outlet are at the same level.  The purpose of the tank is for irrigation.  The tanks will fill with rain water and then in the summer the water can be used for irrigation.

The main house is 12,000 sq.ft.  There are two other houses....one for the pool and one for whatever.  An artisan was brought from Hawaii to decorate the bottom of the pool.  There is extensive landscape planned with irrigation.  ......and somebody thought it was a good idea to make them install these tanks that couldn't be used if they wanted to.


----------



## Mech

The tanks are upside down and below grade.


----------



## TheCommish

A pump through the large hole center top can drain the tank


----------



## ICE

TheCommish said:


> A pump through the large hole center top can drain the tank


The first time that they open the lid on one of those tanks will be the last time.


----------



## ADAguy

ICE said:


> I can't say that I know how to inspect a carnival.  I have done it about thirty times.  I have not had any training for inspecting carnivals.  The only information that has ever been provided is the address and a site plan.
> 
> You "D" man Ice, good stuff, thank you.
> 
> I look for the obvious safety issues that you mentioned....and a whole lot more.  Every restraint, braking mechanisms, clearances to trees - wires - fences - other rides.  I operate the ride and check the RPMs to make sure that it is within the manufacture’s guidelines.  Then there's the State sticker that tells me that Cal/OSHA has inspected and approved the ride.
> 
> The list of corrections that I have written includes the wrong size cotter key to no emergency lighting in the Gravitron.
> 
> Here is a picture of a Gravitron.  It is a sealed ride that spins.  Once at speed (24 rpm) the occupant is suspended and plastered against the wall (3 Gs) with no contact with the floor.  If the electricity is cut the door will not open until someone from outside the ride pulls it down.  The first time I encountered this ride I asked about emergency lighting while the occupants wait to exit (in total darkness).  I was told that it didn't come from the factory with emergency lighting and I can't make them alter a ride.  Besides that, it had a State sticker.  I've run into several of these and they always leave town with emergency lighting.
> 
> View attachment 5523
> 
> 
> If you have to inspect one of these be aware that the slide that the occupant is on should have intact feet protection plates behind the slide.  If they are missing a persons legs can be caught and broken when the ride cycles down.  For that reason you must make them lift every slide.  The slides are heavy, it's hot inside that can and there's 48. I have found missing plates.
> 
> 
> The next ride is a Dragon Wagon kids roller coaster.  There are several versions that differ in the method of propulsion.  Some have a chain drive and others have an electric motor behind the seat in the last car.  A week before I encountered my first Dragon Wagon I watched a 20/20 episode on a carnival accident where a girl was scalped when her long hair was caught in the electric motor.  She lost her entire scalp and it was not reattached.  So now I have that same ride with no protection of the motor.  As horrific as that accident was, the carnival operator resisted fabricating a shroud over the motor.  I was disappointed, he was disappointed and the ride now has a shroud over the motor.
> 
> View attachment 5524
> 
> 
> Another thing to look for with the Dragon Wagon is the rails that it rides on.  These machines are old.  The rail will have repairs.  The welds are sometimes amateurish.  I have found cracks in welds.  I always require that the part be taken to an LA City certified welding facility for repair.  I have posted carnival pictures here at the forum....I think that's one of them.
> 
> There was a large ride that has swing seats on long chains.  It was fast and as it rotated it would tilt back and forth producing one Hell of a ride. When it got up to speed I noticed that that at each revolution there was a loud sound  .......  like someone hitting an empty garbage can with an ax handle.  I asked, "What's up with that?" He shrugged as he said, "It started happening last weekend in West Covina".
> 
> It didn't take much effort to remove this seat belt strap.
> 
> View attachment 5525
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5526
> 
> 
> In the thirty or so that I have inspected I guess the average carnival results in twenty corrections.....some more some less.  One year the carnival operators banded together and threatened to boycott the city I was working in unless a different inspector took over.  The city declined ... preferring instead to have a safe carnival.  I really shouldn't say safe carnival.
> 
> It takes hours to do it right.  I never leave with a good feeling that I caught everything.


----------



## ICE

The enclosure is a surface mount that is sealed to the wall.




It was done like this because the old flush enclosure is still in the wall.  The cable has either been stripped or spliced.




The GEC runs down the wall, under the rocks and hits a rod.




The service was done by the same company that installed solar on the roof.  The roofing is tile so I have to rely on pictures of the array.




They requested a final inspection without bothering to label the circuit breakers.  This is oh so typical of the solar industry.  As bad as they are, houses aren't burning and people aren't getting electrocuted.


----------



## ICE

I wrote a correction which stated that shingles are not allowed on a roof that is pitched below 2" in 12".  This roof happens to be 1.5".  A worker called the contractor.




The contractor asked me to write a correction requiring plywood over the insulation panels because the insulation will not hold nails.  I told him that there won't be any nails in as much as there won't be any shingles.  He said that sure there will but he needs to have plywood and two layers of underlay.




Had the pitch allowed shingles, the contractor was trying to use me against the owner.


Update: Inspection was requested four days later.  The contractor has tried nailing base sheet for torch down.......directly to the insulation.  I still didn't leave a correction requiring plywood.  The contractor called and asked me why.  I told him that a sprinkle mop is an option si I couldn't require plywood.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> The service was done by the same company that installed solar on the roof.  The roofing is tile so I have to rely on pictures of the array.
> .



Is the ground wire clamp correct?  Looks like the green wire is not under the screw very well.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Is the ground wire clamp correct?  Looks like the green wire is not under the screw very well.


There can’t be more than one wire in that lay-in lug.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> View attachment 5604
> 
> 
> 
> The site plan shows two 600 gallon tanks.  There's no description of the tanks or any details. I found the leaders and drain pipe.  The idea is to take the water from roof drains and put it in the tanks.
> 
> 
> View attachment 5603
> 
> 
> 
> Neither tank has been placed per plan.  That's because they would have been in/under the driveway and there's already water pipe, building sewer pipe, gas pipe and conduit under the driveway.
> 
> The six inch schedule 40 has no cleanouts and none are shown on the plan.  There is no provision for draining the tanks once they are full except for the fact that the inlet and outlet are at the same level.  The purpose of the tank is for irrigation.  The tanks will fill with rain water and then in the summer the water can be used for irrigation.
> 
> The main house is 12,000 sq.ft.  There are two other houses....one for the pool and one for whatever.  An artisan was brought from Hawaii to decorate the bottom of the pool.  There is extensive landscape planned with irrigation.  ......and somebody thought it was a good idea to make them install these tanks that couldn't be used if they wanted to.
> 
> View attachment 5605
> 
> 
> View attachment 5606



Wouldn't the tanks need straps to prevent floating up?


----------



## Norcal

Did you allow the Siemens breaker in the Eaton BR, "Zinsco II" panel, going into UL listed, vs classified quagmire, not seen anything allowing Siemens QP, or it's lookalike cousin Murray MP, to be installed in any competitive panel.


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> Did you allow the Siemens breaker in the Eaton BR, "Zinsco II" panel, going into UL listed, vs classified quagmire, not seen anything allowing Siemens QP, or it's lookalike cousin Murray MP, to be installed in any competitive panel.


That would not be legal.

https://www.npeinc.com/are-eaton-westinghouse-square-d-and-cutler-hammer-breakers-compatible


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Wouldn't the tanks need straps to prevent floating up?


No


----------



## ICE

A bunch of work was done without permits.  Now I have to be the bad guy.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Box depth and gap around the e-box, ...not good! 

Do you think they used glue on the drywall or can they just back the screws out?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Box depth and gap around the e-box, ...not good!
> 
> Do you think they used glue on the drywall or can they just back the screws out?


They didn't use glue.  I recommended that they remove entire sheets rather than cut open the the areas that have electrical.  They decided to cut open rather than remove.


----------



## ICE




----------



## linnrg

who would have approved that design a 3'6" can side support an 8' wall!  Maybe they fully reinforce masonry fences in California?  Footing for existing wall looks to be a sloping footing never seen that with masonry.


----------



## conarb

linnrg said:


> who would have approved that design a 3'6" can side support an 8' wall!  Maybe they fully reinforce masonry fences in California?  Footing for existing wall looks to be a sloping footing never seen that with masonry.



I've been building in California all of my life and have never seen anything like that, of course Southern California has always been known as Hicksville or Tinseltown.


----------



## Msradell

Other than the "escape tunnel" that wasn't noted on the drawings it looks like a pretty good plan. I actually cutting off one side of the existing footing or was it originally formed off-center like that? If I had done the design I probably would've used 8" instead of 6" CMU and probably would have used #5 verticals (especially if I'm with using 6" CMU).  I'm assuming the drawings are stamped by an engineer of record?


----------



## jar546

ICE said:


> The first time that they open the lid on one of those tanks will be the last time.



They make risers for those tanks to bring them to grade once they are buried.  This is nothing new


----------



## jar546

ICE said:


> A bunch of work was done without permits.  Now I have to be the bad guy.




NEC 312.4 right off the bat


----------



## ICE

jar546 said:


> They make risers for those tanks to bring them to grade once they are buried.  This is nothing new


It'll be new to them.  A riser alone will not drain the tank.


----------



## DMartin

Well the plans states there is an existing footing where obviously there is not because there I a pipe where there should be what appears to be calling out a continuous footing. Cant quit tell if that is a footing above the pipe or not. Either way that is a wall collapse waiting to happen.


----------



## ADAguy

"Gol ee"! Ice!


----------



## linnrg

DMartin said:


> Well the plans states there is an existing footing where obviously there is not because there I a pipe where there should be what appears to be calling out a continuous footing. Cant quit tell if that is a footing above the pipe or not. Either way that is a wall collapse waiting to happen.



and the person that gets hurt is the mason?

so if this fence is on the property line what does the neighbor have to say?


----------



## ICE

A contractor built an addition of two bedrooms and two bathrooms.  They did a nice job and it only took 1.5 months, which is fast around here.  The owner decided to do a service panel upgrade on his own.


----------



## ICE

linnrg said:


> what does the neighbor have to say?



Plenty. He was washing his car when I arrived. He told me that I took his parking place. I found that to be odd enough but then he said that I better not let his wall get damaged.  I hadn’t seen the wall. I’ll park on the other side of the street from now on.  If the wall makes it through the construction...wait a few years for it to find the angle of repose for CMUs.


----------



## ICE

For obvious reasons, California contractor license laws stipulate that a general contractor (B) shall not have a contract for single trades such as roofing (C-39) unless there are two other trades as well.  This supposedly protects the other license classifications from the B contractor in that the idea is for the B contractor to hire the other contractors for specialty work.  

Well we never figured that out.  So we issue permits to anybody with a license as long as they take out permits for other work.  

The situation in this case is a re-roof (building permit), two receptacles (electrical permit). two hose bibs (plumbing permit).  The B contractors' plan was to replace two receptacles and the washers in two hose bib faucets.  I explained that those items do not require permits and since he has permits it must mean that new receptacles and new hose bibs will be installed where the owner wants them.

Here is a receptacle:





The outlet box is not secured to the wall.  It didn't fall off so I assume there is Romex holding it.  My non-contact tester did not detect voltage.





So the guy that did this called to complain about the corrections that I left at the site.  He was especially upset about the AFCI requirement.  He commenced to shout and demand and state that he has never done any of my corrections before.  In a stern tone I told him that he will now.  He asked for a manager.  Next was a trip to the woodshed because I was "rude".  When will they understand that I suffer fools poorly and I don't much care what they think about that.


----------



## jar546

Why would AFCI be required outside?


----------



## Rick18071

At least your state has contractor license laws. But I wonder too if contractor license laws really make a difference.


----------



## jar546

Rick18071 said:


> At least your state has contractor license laws. But I wonder too if contractor license laws really make a difference.



As someone who has worked in PA where there is no licensing and Florida where there is strict licensing, yes, there is a difference in many ways but not in all ways.  Whenever you have good quality building code enforcement, you have better contractors.  Whenever you have weak code enforcement such as multi-discipline inspectors or simple ignorance, then you still have many of the same problems.  When your state license is highly valued and difficult to attain, you are more likely to protect it by making sure your work is done right.  In PA, however, you just move on to the next town when you are a bad contractor.  There are a lot of guys that live in WB or Scranton and never worked in those cities because they have actual competency based licensing.


----------



## ICE

jar546 said:


> Why would AFCI be required outside?


A circuit that requires AFCI elsewhere in the code has been modified with an additional device.


----------



## ICE

jar546 said:


> As someone who has worked in PA where there is no licensing and Florida where there is strict licensing, yes, there is a difference in many ways but not in all ways.  Whenever you have good quality building code enforcement, you have better contractors.  Whenever you have weak code enforcement such as multi-discipline inspectors or simple ignorance, then you still have many of the same problems.  When your state license is highly valued and difficult to attain, you are more likely to protect it by making sure your work is done right.  In PA, however, you just move on to the next town when you are a bad contractor.  There are a lot of guys that live in WB or Scranton and never worked in those cities because they have actual competency based licensing.


I take umbrage with your characterization of multiple-discipline inspectors as not qualified.  I am one.  I work with several.  While I lack the breadth of electrical code knowledge that you possess, I can hold my own for what I am called to accomplish.  You’re in the wrong forum to be throwing stones at inspectors.


----------



## mtlogcabin

ICE said:


> You’re in the wrong forum to be throwing stones at inspectors.


Ice
Did you forget he owns the forum.
Seriously though he is correct that sometimes multi-disciplined inspectors will get in over their heads in a field they could use more knowledge or training in.
Even within the building code discipline I have one who's framing code knowledge far superior to the others and another who's expertise is concrete and masonry. Each one do both types of inspections however when one is getting in over his head they will call on the other to ride along and it becomes a training inspection.
One of the benefits of a smaller department with adequate staff and a small geographic area to cover.


----------



## jar546

ICE said:


> A circuit that requires AFCI elsewhere in the code has been modified with an additional device.



Yes, agree.  So this was the extension of a branch circuit that serves the interior of the home and the addition of a device outside on said circuit, therefore not meeting the exception?


----------



## jar546

ICE said:


> I take umbrage with you characterization of multiple-discipline inspectors as not qualified.  I am one.  I work with several.  While I lack the breadth of electrical code knowledge that you possess, I can hold my own for what I am called to accomplish.  You’re in the wrong forum to be throwing stones at inspectors.



You can take umbrage all you want.  By your own admission and my own professional experience, we are not as competent in all disciplines as someone who is a specialist in that field.  OK, for single family homes, a multi-discipline inspector can certainly "hold their own" but still not to the level of a specialist that only does one discipline.  No way, no how.  
I personally hold 16 certification with the ICC and have since 2009.  Big deal, I am good at taking tests and know how to use a book.  Yes, I have experience in construction with framing and remodeling and especially electrical, but not plumbing or mechanical and when you get into residential generators, more complicated services and commercial or industrial projects, that is where the difference starts to take place.

I have extensive electrical experience as an electrician from the most basic residential to the more complex industrial motor controls and large 14,400 transformers and switchgear.  When I had to do it all as a multi-discipline inspector I lost my edge with electrical and knew I was limited with mechanical because I never had experience doing the job.  When you arrive do to a plumbing, mechanical, electrical and structural inspection on one jobsite, how do you not get sidetracked?

I am a much, much better electrical inspector now that I am only doing electrical.  The problem with multi-discipline inspectors is that they don't know what they don't know and tend to focus only on what they are familiar with.  Electrical, for example can be extremely complicated at times, especially since not every single thing the electrician is going to do is in the approved plans.  So yeah, you might be a great multi-discipline inspector or 'jack of all trades' but maybe only a 'master of one'


----------



## jar546

mtlogcabin said:


> Ice
> Did you forget he owns the forum.
> Seriously though he is correct that sometimes multi-disciplined inspectors will get in over their heads in a field they could use more knowledge or training in.
> Even within the building code discipline I have one who's framing code knowledge far superior to the others and another who's expertise is concrete and masonry. Each one do both types of inspections however when one is getting in over his head they will call on the other to ride along and it becomes a training inspection.
> One of the benefits of a smaller department with adequate staff and a small geographic area to cover.



Whether or not I run this forum has no relevance to my opinion.  I should be held to the same standard as everyone else when I post.  In this case, I don't believe I did anything but point out the uncomfortable and honest truth about what I myself had to do in the past, do it all.  Yes, I did it well but not as good as I should have or could have if I were a specialist in just 1 trade, maybe 2 at the most.


----------



## jar546

Let me take this one step further with a personal experience on the job.  I follow behind a multi discipline inspector on occasion and have to perform reinspections from his previous inspections.  Here is one example.  I was there to do a final on a generator install for a SFR.  The previous write up was for not having glue on a pvc fitting where the conduit went from the meter to the new ATS.  I could have looked at that and walked away but since my name will be on the final, I took a closer look and this is what I wrote up that he missed:
1) The conduit he wrote up was above the level of live parts and had no sealing rings or sealing locknuts.
2) The neutral and grounds were tied together at the generator.
3) He made them add a ground rod for the generator.  Not required by code nor the installation instructions.
4) The generator was undersized for the load calculations and lacked load shedding.
5) The installation did not match the approved plans.

I have a lot more stories but I'll leave it at that.


----------



## ICE

jar546 said:


> *OK, for single family homes, a multi-discipline inspector can certainly "hold their own" but still not to the level of a specialist that only does one discipline. *
> 
> 
> *When I had to do it all as a multi-discipline inspector I lost my edge with electrical and knew I was limited with mechanical because I never had experience doing the job.  When you arrive do to a plumbing, mechanical, electrical and structural inspection on one jobsite, how do you not get sidetracked?*
> 
> *So yeah, you might be a great multi-discipline inspector or 'jack of all trades' but maybe only a 'master of one'*



It is a mistake to think that you are at the top of the pile and if you struggled Shirley must we all.


----------



## jar546

ICE said:


> It is a mistake to think that you are at the top of the pile and if you struggled Shirley must we all.



No, not at the top of the pile but I and many of us have seen it time and time again.  There are a few smaller areas that have a BO which is allowed to do all the inspection if they have a population <50,000.  It is not just me or my opinion, we have all seen the result of the one man show, one stop shop.  It is not as good as you think and I was not as good as I thought for the almost 10 years I did it.  Think what you want, specialists have more knowledge than your average multi discipline inspector.  Broward County, for example will not allow multi-discipline inspectors....period.  You can only inspect the trade you were licensed in as a contractor.


----------



## jar546

No one is saying you are not doing a good job, especially if you are sticking with one family dwellings but if it is your jurisdiction and you have a hospital with 3 generators and emergency systems with 2 separate services, you are in over your head.  Residential is like the kindergarten of electrical and I mean that no matter how it may sound.  It is the truth.


----------



## ICE

You’re just one well meaning insult after another.


----------



## tmurray

It might be important to understand that most communities cannot afford inspectors dedicated to a single trade and that multi-discipline inspectors, as flawed as they may be, are better than nothing. Most of us know this, but it needs repeated.

Sometimes I question if contractors are using inspectors as a crutch. I've heard: "how do you want this done" many times. When I respond with code complaint, I usually get: "well when I work in <geographical area>, they always tell me how they want it done". It's not that I don't like helping people. I really do. When a contractor gets stuck, I usually tell them how I've seen it done other places. Add in some positives and negatives and the contractor can pick whatever way works best for them. but, I've literally had a contractor ask me how I wanted the house built. 

It should be the contractor's responsibility to seek out education. Not to blindly keep doing things until someone stops them because it is too dangerous. 

If I waited for someone to tell me what I was missing in my inspections, I'd be seeing the inside of a courtroom a lot.


----------



## ADAguy

No apologies necessary  Jar, "we" are all in this together.


----------



## my250r11

I will admit that I have wrote corrections and upon reinspection found things i missed the first time due to my focus on the correction that jumped out on my first look. Also have missed things on framing due to contractor complaining about the corrections and upon return find them. I will also say that most of the time the most noticeable ones are the most dangerous.

We are all human and by no means perfect, if I do a plbg. or mech RI for the other inspector I may miss something, hopefully not to major.


----------



## Pcinspector1

I recently noticed while doing a rough-in inspection that the contractor did not strap the top plates on both sides and install some "X"-bracing per approved plans. 

On the re-inspection I noticed that only one stud was supporting that double top plate, when I looked further, two floor joist were bearing on the same double plate. The contractor had no problem at all adding additional studs below the double plate. 

Went back to re-re-inspect the work in that area, and requested that they put additional nails in the "X" bracing. 

On the re-re-re-inspection I signed off. 

While doing the multiple trade inspections It happens




jar546 said:


> Residential is like the kindergarten of electrical



I carry big red and black crayons!


----------



## jar546

We all miss things, even when we are specialized.  Yes, I realize that sometimes this is a budgetary issue and things simple "are what they are."  I by no means am dissing anyone, just being honest and pointing out the obvious that everyone knows but don't not like to talk about.  We all do the best we can with the knowledge and certifications that we have.  It is always much easier when you only have one discipline to look at.  I think the real issue is knowing when you are in over your head and asking for help vs just passing something because you just don't know any better and it looks good.


----------



## jar546

I am not sure this would be an acceptable method for the protection of wiring.  Technically there is no notching or boring but we all know what the trimmer is going to do on this ceiling to wall intersection.


----------



## e hilton

Other than the fact that the large one on the right is not covered ... looks like a half-a$$ attempt to satisfy the inspector.  It has Fail written all over it.


----------



## conarb

Structural problems aside, I didn't know you had to protect BX, nails can't go through it.


----------



## e hilton

Con ... i assume you mean MC not BX ... and i think 330.17 requires it to be protected or recessed a certain distance.


----------



## Paul Sweet

The old BX (The NEC calls it AC) usually had galvanized steel armor.  MC is more common now, and most that I have seen has an aluminum jacket which isn't much heavier gauge than a beer can, so it wouldn't offer much more resistance to a nail than NM.


----------



## conarb

Hmmm, I'm an old guy, *this is what we call BX*, if it's not tough enough to withstand a nail, why bother?


----------



## e hilton

Im an old guy too, and i still call it BX ... my electrician rolls his eyes every time.  And i still talk about iinstalling VAT on the floor.  I think what killed BX was the lack of a ground wire.  And the new stuff has to be cheaper or t wont sell.


----------



## Msradell

Back in the 70s they made BX with an internal ground wire. I installed quite a bit of it in various places.


----------



## conarb

Msradell said:


> Back in the 70s they made BX with an internal ground wire. I installed quite a bit of it in various places.



And the reason we spent the extra money for BX over Romex was so that it wouldn't be injured by nails, screws etc.


----------



## Paul Sweet

I have been told that the old BX used the armor for grounding.  The armor would build up a lot of resistance as it aged and rusted, and a lot of people got shocked because there was no grounding conductor.  AC now has to have a metal bonding strip in continuous contact with the armor, and MC usually has a separate grounding conductor.


----------



## Pcinspector1

I felt like I inspected some kindergartner work today doing a residential inspection.

Darn....My big red crayon broke and I just bought it.


----------



## jar546

conarb said:


> Hmmm, I'm an old guy, *this is what we call BX*, if it's not tough enough to withstand a nail, why bother?



Uh, BX, AC & MC cable can all be penetrated by nails without a problem.  Old BX from when you were a youthful carpenter to today's MC/AC cable.  I can shoot nails right through it.  Always have been able to do.  That was probably an old wive's tale you heard about BX.


----------



## jar546

conarb said:


> Structural problems aside, I didn't know you had to protect BX, nails can't go through it.



No structural problems.  You are looking at nailers.


----------



## mtlogcabin

Pcinspector1 said:


> I felt like I inspected some kindergartner work today doing a residential inspection.
> 
> Darn....My big red crayon broke and I just bought it.



We have stamp that we would love to put on some plan submittals but we don't dare

I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME OR CRAYONS TO EXPLAIN WHAT IS WRONG


----------



## e hilton

mtlogcabin said:


> I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME OR CRAYONS TO EXPLAIN WHAT IS WRONG



Back when everything was done on paper, i had an architect who would stamp shop drawings and submittals “Build It Like The Plans”.


----------



## conarb

jar546 said:


> Uh, BX, AC & MC cable can all be penetrated by nails without a problem.  Old BX from when you were a youthful carpenter to today's MC/AC cable.  I can shoot nails right through it.  Always have been able to do.  That was probably an old wive's tale you heard about BX.


If it wouldn't withstand nails why did they even make it?


----------



## jar546

conarb said:


> If it wouldn't withstand nails why did they even make it?



You will have to ask those that invented in the late 1800s and started selling it in 1903.  It was just the way they made things back then.  NM Cable, aka Romex was just a cheaper version of house wiring to lower housing costs since it is cheaper to make.


----------



## jar546

This is a complete failure to properly flash the replacement windows and will result in lots of water going behind the crappy vinyl siding.


----------



## e hilton

Remember the Danny Devito movie from 20 yrs ago ... Tin Men ... looks like thats where they learned.


----------



## JCraver

jar546 said:


> This is a complete failure to properly flash the replacement windows and will result in lots of water going behind the crappy vinyl siding.
> 
> View attachment 5679
> View attachment 5680



99 times out of a hundred those joints are so full of caulk when I see them that you wouldn't know if there was flashing there or not


----------



## e hilton

Caulk and paint ... makes a carpenter what he ain’t.   
(Apologizes to mrs johnson ... i did pay attention in grammar class).


----------



## jar546

Getting caught without a permit.
Just in the 2 photos provided, how many IRC violations do you see?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Spindle spacing on stair rail, handrail missing, risers to prevent a 4" sphere missing, piers, post connection to pier, stair landing pad, stair rise, stair nose. Top step may not be the same rise, can't see ledger connections an flashing. Stringer connection hardware. Stair lighting and stair tread width? 

That's about all I got to say about that!


----------



## jar546

Pcinspector1 said:


> Spindle spacing on stair rail, handrail missing, risers to prevent a 4" sphere missing, piers, post connection to pier, stair landing pad, stair rise, stair nose. Top step may not be the same rise, can't see ledger connections an flashing. Stringer connection hardware. Stair lighting and stair tread width?  That's about all I got to say about that!



Now that is one hell of a list.


----------



## e hilton

Pcinspector1 said:


> That's about all I got to say about that!


How can you tell the step rise is wrong?  Other than the first one.  
There is probably a label on the underside of the stones that says they are code compliant for footers ...


----------



## e hilton

Zooming in ... looks like they might have notched the stringer too deep.  
Did a nice job chamfering the front edge of the handrail.


----------



## mtlogcabin

Siding missing


----------



## Pcinspector1

e hilton said:


> How can you tell the step rise is wrong? Other than the first one.



That's a *"may"* disclaimer, cuz I can't tell for sure, but it does look like the bottom and the top risers are a bit different from the main run risers. IMO, they look higher than 7-3/4-inches to me? Could be wrong.

I think more deck builders have issues with stairs than anything else on the deck project, would anybody agree with that? For instance the handrail between (34-38-inches), I'm lucky to even get a handrail, usually I get a flat 2x6, and the framer sez, "That is the handrail, so and so city allows that!" Man your being a D...Debbie Downer!

Now lets say the deck dude makes a new set of stairs, and meets 90 percent of the code requirements. I'll almost guarantee the handrail will be out of the (34-38-inch) range because they will not have the stair guardrail high enough for the handrail and bracket which will put the handrail in conflict with that 2x6 top cap. I have seen a handrail bracket used upside down trying to be compliant. After you have done two final deck inspections with corrections, the percentage of compliance and the final inspection becomes harder to achieve. So I think some items are overlooked by inspectors to get that final inspection over with. 

Also you better go up and check the decking screws, I had a crew put one screw through the decking into each FJ in a "W" pattern and claim they have less decking issues, "come on dude!" Now I got to come back and re-inspect to make sure the homeowner is getting what they paid for! Same crew left the vinyl siding off, said they don't do vinyl siding work!

I can't give enough information out to get a compliant deck unless it's a professional deck builder. It starts with a poorly filled out application and no plans submitted, then it morphs into guiding the applicant to a building supplier for some free plans. I'm at the point that I would like to have only two or three decks plans designed with material list including install instructions stamped by a RDP that we will allow unless the applicant brings in a deck plan designed by a RDP. But then there's the stairs and the different deck heights that screws that idea up..

Jar, Thanks for the pics! I'm sure you have more.


----------



## Rick18071

Just had a bad deck inspection. Many things wrong but the worst was the deck was attached to a house cantilever rim board. The approved plans did not show the cantilever on the house. When I went back they just added two 4x4 posts under the 16' long single 2x12 ledger board. I said I will not inspect again until they gave me a new plan. Then failed the new plan. They finally got someone that knows something and another new plan showed a (2) 2x12 new beam and (3) 6x6 posts and piers for the house end of the deck which complies with code.


----------



## jar546

Pcinspector1 said:


> Jar, Thanks for the pics! I'm sure you have more.



Yes I do.  I figure I might as well keep adding this until ICE's (Tigerloose) hiatus is over, unless he decided to make it permanent.  I'm surprised no one has commented on that yet.  Still waiting.


----------



## e hilton

Pcinspector1 said:


> That's a *"may"* disclaimer, cuz I can't tell for sure, but it does look like the bottom and the top risers are a bit different from the main run risers. .


Zooming in ... bad angle ... looks like the top “step” is about 4” lower than the deck surface.


----------



## e hilton

jar546 said:


> Yes I do.  I figure I might as well keep adding this until ICE's (Tigerloose) hiatus is over, unless he decided to make it permanent.  I'm surprised no one has commented on that yet.  Still waiting.


I don’t pay much attention to his posting schedule, i look at it like he is doing a novella.   Sure hope he comes back, he has a fascinating outlook on inspections.


----------



## Pcinspector1

I bet he got promoted and doesn't have time to post or he's working on a new avatar!


----------



## classicT

jar546 said:


> Yes I do.  I figure I might as well keep adding this until ICE's (Tigerloose) hiatus is over, unless he decided to make it permanent.  I'm surprised no one has commented on that yet.  Still waiting.


New role as the Chief Inspector for the State? Busy re-writing the mess of code that CA has...


----------



## my250r11

My correction is easy, remove and hire someone who knows what they are doing.


----------



## jar546

They were all like this.  Useless.  Gotta love Pennsylvania where there is no state licensing of contractors.


----------



## rogerpa

Looks like a staírway to nowhere.


----------



## e hilton

Shoulda used fender washers.


----------



## Rick18071

jar546 said:


> They were all like this.  Useless.  Gotta love Pennsylvania where there is no state licensing of contractors.
> View attachment 5700



I did work one area where I required a sill plate inspection before any framing was done and it was great. I can no longer require it where I am now and can not crawl around crawlspaces with my old bad knees. How do other senior inspectors do it?


----------



## mtlogcabin

Rick18071 said:


> How do other senior inspectors do it?


I send the young guys down into the crawl space


----------



## Rick18071

mtlogcabin said:


> I send the young guys down into the crawl space



I'm the only one here.


----------



## Pcinspector1

I was trying to find a solution: Could the required 3-inch washer be used to grab some of the plate or an engineered design? 

You've got the anchoring the foundation know how can it be tied to a sill plate. Could a piece of 16ga or thicker steel be fabricated to catch the sill plate similar to a Simpson Strong Tie DJT?


----------



## jar546

Rick18071 said:


> I did work one area where I required a sill plate inspection before any framing was done and it was great. I can no longer require it where I am now and can not crawl around crawlspaces with my old bad knees. How do other senior inspectors do it?



Employer ADA discrimination.  They can easily require a sill plate inspection on all foundations.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Fat fingers!


----------



## jar546

Pcinspector1 said:


> I was trying to find a solution: Could the required 3-inch washer be used to grab some of the plate or an engineered design?
> 
> You've got the anchoring the foundation know how can it be tied to a sill plate. Could a piece of 16ga or thicker steel be fabricated to catch the sill plate similar to a Simpson Strong Tie DJT?



No you cannot.  Read Chapter 4 of the IRC and you will see a lot of specifics on sill plate anchoring.


----------



## classicT

Pcinspector1 said:


> I was trying to find a solution: Could the required 3-inch washer be used to grab some of the plate or an engineered design?
> 
> You've got the anchoring the foundation know how can it be tied to a sill plate. Could a piece of 16ga or thicker steel be fabricated to catch the sill plate similar to a Simpson Strong Tie DJT?


NO!

Use a post installed anchor like a Simpson Titen HD or a retrofit foundation plate such as the Simpson URFP


----------



## mtlogcabin

We see these on foundation repair/replacement under existing homes

https://www.strongtie.com/foundatio...nchors/urfp-frfp_productgroup_wcc/p/urfp.frfp


----------



## Pcinspector1

Mtlogcabin, your "Great American!", I thought there was something from Strongtie!


----------



## e hilton

This is a new word to me:  as well as fixity to both


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:


> We see these on foundation repair/replacement under existing homes
> 
> https://www.strongtie.com/foundatio...nchors/urfp-frfp_productgroup_wcc/p/urfp.frfp




They are popular here but I rarely see them.


----------



## classicT

jar546 said:


> Yes I do.  I figure I might as well keep adding this until ICE's (Tigerloose) hiatus is over, unless he decided to make it permanent.  I'm surprised no one has commented on that yet.  Still waiting.





ICE said:


> They are popular here but I rarely see them.



Ok, was a fairly short hiatus...._confusion sets in_. Whats up Jeff?


----------



## Pcinspector1

I have a fever for some more cow bell, I need more cow bell!

I'd settle for some more concrete jungle pics


----------



## ADAguy

Ledger lacks flashing?
Aren't treds suppose to be of PT material?
Is this a SF or a MF bld'g?


----------



## Rick18071

Post #3472 shows the the guard 4x4 is notched where connected to the stringer.  When notched these posts and are not any better than a 2x4 and start to split up the middle and become even weaker.  I always make them install a metal "L" bracket to the tread or decking when they do that. Or a lag from under the tread or deck floor into the post. How do others handle this?


----------



## e hilton

ADAguy said:


> Aren't treds suppose to be of PT material??


Why?   Not in contact with the ground, and actually at least 6” off the ground.  
I suspect most builders use th3 same material as the deck, for convenience, maybe even using up scraps, but really no need for it.


----------



## jar546

Time for a Restart


----------



## ADAguy

Pcinspector1 said:


> I was trying to find a solution: Could the required 3-inch washer be used to grab some of the plate or an engineered design?
> 
> You've got the anchoring the foundation know how can it be tied to a sill plate. Could a piece of 16ga or thicker steel be fabricated to catch the sill plate similar to a Simpson Strong Tie DJT?



only if it is "engineered"


----------



## ADAguy

e hilton said:


> Why?   Not in contact with the ground, and actually at least 6” off the ground.
> I suspect most builders use th3 same material as the deck, for convenience, maybe even using up scraps, but really no need for it.



What of long term durability? Not a "best/profitable" practice?


----------



## Pcinspector1

ADAguy said:


> What of long term durability? Not a "best/profitable" practice?



Maybe the lurker could start a new thread and call it *"An above average day!"* or *"A not so average day!"* something like that or come back and run this thread thing! 

176 pages, got to be a record!

I'm limited in my forum abilities


----------



## jar546

Maybe this is an exception under Open Air Conductors?


----------



## north star

*@ ~ @ ~ @*


> * " I'm limited in my forum abilities * "


I highly recommend that you that you "Upgrade" your account
and be welcomed in to the corral of Sawhorsies  !  

*@ ~ @ ~ @*


----------



## ICE

A product called Low-E Therma Sheet has been in the marketplace for several years.  It has an ICC ESR #3652  as an underlayment https://www.icc-es.org/wp-content/uploads/report-directory/ESR-3652.pdf

The following came from the ESR:

ESP Low-E® Therma-Sheet 4LMPX 1/8 inch and ESP Low-E® Therma-Sheet 4LFPX 7/32 inch roofing underlayments are used as alternatives to the ASTM D226, Type I and Type II, roofing underlayments specified in IBC Chapter 15 and IRC Chapter 9.

3.2 ESP Low-E® Therma-Sheet 4LFPX 7/32 inch: consists of a 7/32-inch-thick (5.6 mm) *polyethylene core* with a 5 x 5 scrim-reinforced aluminum foil top surface and a 2 x 2

Minimum roof slope is 2:12 (17 percent). For roof slopes from 2:12 (17 percent) up to but not including 4:12 (33 percent), where the roof is covered with asphalt shingles, underlayment * must be two layers* and must be applied in accordance with IBC Section 1507.2.8, 2015 IRC Sections R905.1.1 and R905.2.3 [2012 IRC Section R905.2.7]. As an alternative, when the roof is covered with asphalt shingles, one layer of ESP Low-E® Therma-Sheet underlayment and one layer of underlayment conforming to either ASTM D226, Type I, ASTM D4869, Type I or ASTM D6757 may be installed in accordance with IBC Section 1507.2.8, 2015 IRC Sections R905.1.1 and R905.2.3

Beginning at the lower edge of the roof, the first course of underlayment must be laid horizontally (parallel to the eave), *with 4-inch (102 mm) horizontal and 6-inch (152 mm) vertical laps.

5.5 Installation is limited to roofs with ventilated attic spaces.

5.6 Installation is limited to use with nonclassified roof coverings or as a component of a classified roofing assembly when specifically recognized as such in a listing approved by the code official.

*
Well there you have it*.  *The material is a legitimate underlayment for use with asphalt shingles.....even at two layers.








Squeezing it produces a sound like popping bubble wrap.  It is foam.  A 7/16" thick layer of polyethylene foam under an asphalt shingle seems wrong.  I contacted ICC with questions.  I was informed that ICC tested and approved the material as an underlayment.  That none of the shingle manufacturers objected.  That there have been no reports of any problems with the use.  That it is not a "radiant barrier".

I contacted Malarkey, GAF, and Owens Corning.  GAF technical service dept. stated that the LOW-E is not allowed under GAF shingles.  Malarkey said no.  Owens Corning said that the use of LOW-E underlayment will not void the warranty.

I found the material on a roof with GAF shingles:




I wrote a correction stating that GAF will not allow this.  The contractor had a GAF representative call and email an approval for the use of LOW-E Therma Sheet underlayment and as usual "It will not void the warranty."

My department has told me that we can not disallow the use.  I was told to check roofs at final (looking for nails that tore through the shingle).  That's from a person sitting at a desk.  I try to avoid walking on new shingles much less damaging tabs looking for damage.


----------



## jar546

Great info, thank you.  Vented attic only.  Hmmmmm


----------



## ICE

Or a classified roof.  We have a lot of high fire zone areas which require a class A roof. 

Florida, and only Florida, received extra attention:
The purpose of this evaluation report supplement is to indicate that the ESP Low-E® Therma-Sheet 4LMPX 1/8 inch and ESP Low-E® Therma-Sheet 4LFPX 7/32 inch roofing underlayments, recognized in ICC-ES master report ESR-3652, have also been evaluated for compliance with the codes noted below.
Applicable code editions:
 2017 Florida Building Code—Building
 2017 Florida Building Code—Residential


----------



## ICE

Somebody had to know.


----------



## jar546

ICE said:


> Or a classified roof.  We have a lot of high fire zone areas which require a class A roof.
> 
> Florida, and only Florida, received extra attention:
> The purpose of this evaluation report supplement is to indicate that the ESP Low-E® Therma-Sheet 4LMPX 1/8 inch and ESP Low-E® Therma-Sheet 4LFPX 7/32 inch roofing underlayments, recognized in ICC-ES master report ESR-3652, have also been evaluated for compliance with the codes noted below.
> Applicable code editions:
>  2017 Florida Building Code—Building
>  2017 Florida Building Code—Residential



Yep, I found it.  NOA #FL17296-R2


----------



## ICE

The job is a tank-less water heater.  It is a high efficiency appliance with a plastic tube for venting.




The tube can be threaded through the existing vent with a cap on top.


----------



## ICE

It went downhill down hill from there.


----------



## ICE

Bare copper wire shall not be in contact with aluminum.


----------



## ICE

New furnace.




A work in progress?


----------



## ICE

Solar racking doesn't look like much when it's laying on the ground.  This equipment is sixteen months old.  It came off the roof because the tile roof covering is being replaced.  The reason that it is corroded has to do with a watering system that's meant to clean the face of the modules.


----------



## mtlogcabin

jar546 said:


> Yep, I found it. NOA #FL17296-R2


I can't open your link but it is not been evaluated for high velocity wind zones according to the conclusion of the ES report


----------



## ICE

I was there because code enforcement cited the property for an illegal garage conversion.


----------



## ICE

We allow a cord and attachment plug for a furnace but it shall be a minimum 12 awg.  At the first inspection the cord was 16 awg and not secured to the furnace.  I wrote a correction to install a 12 awg cord and secure it.


----------



## ICE




----------



## jar546

I love your third-world country photos.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> A product called Low-E Therma Sheet has been in the marketplace for several years.  It has an ICC ESR #3652  as an underlayment https://www.icc-es.org/wp-content/uploads/report-directory/ESR-3652.pdf
> 
> The following came from the ESR:
> 
> ESP Low-E® Therma-Sheet 4LMPX 1/8 inch and ESP Low-E® Therma-Sheet 4LFPX 7/32 inch roofing underlayments are used as alternatives to the ASTM D226, Type I and Type II, roofing underlayments specified in IBC Chapter 15 and IRC Chapter 9.
> 
> 3.2 ESP Low-E® Therma-Sheet 4LFPX 7/32 inch: consists of a 7/32-inch-thick (5.6 mm) *polyethylene core* with a 5 x 5 scrim-reinforced aluminum foil top surface and a 2 x 2
> 
> Minimum roof slope is 2:12 (17 percent). For roof slopes from 2:12 (17 percent) up to but not including 4:12 (33 percent), where the roof is covered with asphalt shingles, underlayment * must be two layers* and must be applied in accordance with IBC Section 1507.2.8, 2015 IRC Sections R905.1.1 and R905.2.3 [2012 IRC Section R905.2.7]. As an alternative, when the roof is covered with asphalt shingles, one layer of ESP Low-E® Therma-Sheet underlayment and one layer of underlayment conforming to either ASTM D226, Type I, ASTM D4869, Type I or ASTM D6757 may be installed in accordance with IBC Section 1507.2.8, 2015 IRC Sections R905.1.1 and R905.2.3
> 
> Beginning at the lower edge of the roof, the first course of underlayment must be laid horizontally (parallel to the eave), *with 4-inch (102 mm) horizontal and 6-inch (152 mm) vertical laps.
> 
> 5.5 Installation is limited to roofs with ventilated attic spaces.
> 
> 5.6 Installation is limited to use with nonclassified roof coverings or as a component of a classified roofing assembly when specifically recognized as such in a listing approved by the code official.
> 
> *
> Well there you have it*.  *The material is a legitimate underlayment for use with asphalt shingles.....even at two layers.
> 
> View attachment 5741
> 
> 
> View attachment 5742
> 
> 
> 
> Squeezing it produces a sound like popping bubble wrap.  It is foam.  A 7/16" thick layer of polyethylene foam under an asphalt shingle seems wrong.  I contacted ICC with questions.  I was informed that ICC tested and approved the material as an underlayment.  That none of the shingle manufacturers objected.  That there have been no reports of any problems with the use.  That it is not a "radiant barrier".
> 
> I contacted Malarkey, GAF, and Owens Corning.  GAF technical service dept. stated that the LOW-E is not allowed under GAF shingles.  Malarkey said no.  Owens Corning said that the use of LOW-E underlayment will not void the warranty.
> 
> I found the material on a roof with GAF shingles:
> 
> View attachment 5743
> 
> 
> I wrote a correction stating that GAF will not allow this.  The contractor had a GAF representative call and email an approval for the use of LOW-E Therma Sheet underlayment and as usual "It will not void the warranty."
> 
> My department has told me that we can not disallow the use.  I was told to check roofs at final (looking for nails that tore through the shingle).  That's from a person sitting at a desk.  I try to avoid walking on new shingles much less damaging tabs looking for damage.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Ice, this is good information, I have not seen the Low-e product used in this area, but I'm sure it's coming soon.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> View attachment 5759
> 
> 
> View attachment 5760



Operator, we have a ba......d connection! Not good, not got. 

I'm seeing the venture duct tape being used a lot but some of its not approved for metal!


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Ice, this is good information, I have not seen the Low-e product used in this area, but I'm sure it's coming soon.



California has a requirement for a "cool roof".  The color of the roofing is one indicator of a cool roof.  The installation of a radiant barrier is one exception to the requirement.  That applies to much of the state but not in my jurisdiction as we changed it up some.  So the company that manufactures Low-E touts it as a radiant blocker.....not a radiant barrier.....ICC is quick to point out that Therma Sheet has not been tested or approved as a radiant barrier.

It looks like a radiant barrier what with the aluminum foil and all......but it's not.  A legitimate radiant barrier requires a minimum one inch air gap.  I see OSB with radiant barrier being installed over 1"x sheathing because the people doing it lack an understanding of how it works. 

While the energy requirements are sorta important the bigger concern is the up to 7/16" layer of foam rubber under an asphalt shingle.  Even if they go with one layer of Therma Sheet and one layer of felt, there's the lap splices.

It's one of those things that a right thinking person recognizes as foolish but there's nothing that can be done about it.


----------



## ICE

While I'm sure that this has been a topic previously, this one is different from the others.  The job is a bathroom remodel which included a new, as in replacement, exhaust fan.  At the rough inspection there was no duct for the exhaust fan.  I noted that with the other corrections. 

At the first attempt for final inspection there was no duct for the fan.  The fan made an odd sound for about two seconds as it was turned on.  I wrote a correction to replace the fan and install a duct.

Now at the next final inspection I find the duct ending near an opening in the roof.  As I have done countless times I wrote a correction to terminate the fan duct to the exterior.  The lady called the contractor.  The contractor stated that the previous exhaust fan lacked any duct.  He stated that he is not responsible for that which was not there to begin with and since he is not responsible, I can't write any corrections related to the duct.

The troubling aspect of this is that he believes his position to be correct......or he hopes that I am just that stupid.


----------



## jar546

ICE said:


> While I'm sure that this has been a topic previously, this one is different from the others.  The job is a bathroom remodel which included a new, as in replacement, exhaust fan.  At the rough inspection there was no duct for the exhaust fan.  I noted that with the other corrections.
> 
> At the first attempt for final inspection there was no duct for the fan.  The fan made an odd sound for about two seconds as it was turned on.  I wrote a correction to replace the fan and install a duct.
> 
> Now at the next final inspection I find the duct ending near an opening in the roof.  As I have done countless times I wrote a correction to terminate the fan duct to the exterior.  The lady called the contractor.  The contractor stated that the previous exhaust fan lacked any duct.  He stated that he is not responsible for that which was not there to begin with and since he is not responsible, I can't write any corrections related to the duct.
> 
> The troubling aspect of this is that he believes his position to be correct......or he hopes that I am just that stupid.



He needs to look at the job, including the attic before he bids it.  It has to be corrected.


----------



## ICE

I found this today.  The lumber had mold.  The owner assured me that the chemical is not toxic.  The smell is not overpowering but it's a small portion of a 9000 square foot house.  I will know more when I find out what was used.


----------



## jar546

I use to spray a similar, if not the same product on homes that acted to treat against rot and provide termite treatment at the same time.  It was made for all areas close to the soil.  It is called Bora-Care or that is the product that I used and mixed it in hot water with a marking dye, greenish blue in color.  The stuff works great.


----------



## ICE

jar546 said:


> I use to spray a similar, if not the same product on homes that acted to treat against rot and provide termite treatment at the same time.  It was made for all areas close to the soil.  It is called Bora-Care or that is the product that I used and mixed it in hot water with a marking dye, greenish blue in color.  The stuff works great.



The internet says that Bora Care is not toxic to humans or pets.  I hope that's what was used.


----------



## steveray

jar546 said:


> Getting caught without a permit.
> Just in the 2 photos provided, how many IRC violations do you see?



All of them...That correction notice would be something like "issues to numerous to write, please start over"


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> The reason that it is corroded has to do with a watering system that's meant to clean the face of the modules.]


Do you make them clean the corrosion off the connectors when it is reassembled?  Use anti-ox goop on the connections?


----------



## ICE

This was done by a large mechanical contractor.  This company produces some outlandish results.  I suspect that their advertising sells work faster than they can hire competent workmen.




The clearance is 31" top, 5" side, 5" rear and not enough between them.







I didn't open a disconnect but it's a good bet that there are fuses.  That would qualify the disconnects for a working space violation.  Yes that's right, no fuses, no breakers means no working space required.  You must understand that when Lewis and Clark made the trip they brought along a can-do spirit that has lasted even to this day.


----------



## Norcal

I just have to shake my head at the photos being posted by ICE, have any of good workmanship?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Train wrecks result in posts,  if photos of perfect construction were to appear, not much to comment on. Nothing to see here, please walk on by!

But I know what you mean Norcal, there's a lot of bad to learn from.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> This was done by a large mechanical contractor.
> 
> View attachment 5778
> 
> 
> View attachment 5779
> 
> 
> View attachment 5780
> 
> 
> I didn't open a disconnect but it's a good bet that there are fuses.



I would think that the units would need to be turned a half turn to expose more coil openings? Yes?


----------



## ICE

The exposed side is an access panel.


----------



## steveray

e hilton said:


> Shoulda used fender washers.



That would be Offender washers....


----------



## classicT

ICE said:


> This was done by a large mechanical contractor.  This company produces some outlandish results.  I suspect that their advertising sells work faster than they can hire competent workmen.
> 
> View attachment 5778
> 
> 
> The clearance is 31" top, 5" side, 5" rear and not enough between them.
> 
> View attachment 5779
> 
> 
> View attachment 5780
> 
> 
> I didn't open a disconnect but it's a good bet that there are fuses.  That would qualify the disconnects for a working space violation.  Yes that's right, no fuses, no breakers means no working space required.  You must understand that when Lewis and Clark made the trip they brought along a can-do spirit that has lasted even to this day.


I'd be shocked if those units last more than 2-years with the lack of airflow.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Ty J. said:


> I'd be shocked if those units last more than 2-years with the lack of airflow.



My worries too!

Just the cotton wood fibers here require the units to be rinsed about twice a year. Not sure what's floating around in the air in CA to clog the fins. There's a Phil Collins song in there somewhere!


----------



## steveray

Did they paint the attic white to keep it cooler?


----------



## ICE

I was there to inspect a new electric service.  I had to find the water heater to verify a jumper between the hot and cold water pipes.  The gas is included with that unless I find evidence of a gas fired furnace.

The slider is probably not legal in as much as it is in the back wall of a converted garage (Media room).  Or depending on how you roll, big screen TV and couch storage room.  The water heater and A/C lack permits.....so there's a furnace too.




On top of everything else is a new bootleg roof.


----------



## ICE

The gap will allow the roof diaphragm to move independently of the wall diaphragm. That is not allowed during an earthquake. The structure can't have weak points that grant motion in the connections from one diaphragm to another and then to the foundation.  That explains why anchor bolts are in a hole that's only 1/16" larger in diameter than the bolt.


----------



## steveray

How do you ventilate the roofs?


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> How do you ventilate the roofs?


Typical vents.


----------



## ADAguy

Keep them coming, great stuff, scary too.


----------



## classicT

ICE said:


> The gap will allow the roof diaphragm to move independently of the wall diaphragm. That is not allowed during an earthquake. The structure can't have weak points that grant motion in the connections from one diaphragm to another and then to the foundation.  That explains why anchor bolts are in a hole that's only 1/16" larger in diameter than the bolt.


Ya sure about that ICE?

May want to check out R602.10.8.2 #2 (below) and the associated Figure R602.10.8.2(1).

For Seismic Design Categories D0, D1 and D2, where the distance from the top of the braced wall panel to the top of the rafters or roof trusses is 151/4 inches (387 mm) or less, blocking between rafters or roof trusses shall be provided above the braced wall panel in accordance with Figure R602.10.8.2(1).​






Note, in the figure it clearly details that 2-in max open space is permitted.


----------



## Inspector Gift

Ty, 
The roof diaphragm edge nailing is achieved by the 2x blocking (shown).  8d @ 6"o.c. is required per Table 602.3(1).


----------



## mtlogcabin

I believe the section was new in the 2012 edition
Remember ICE is in CA and that section may not have been adopted there.


----------



## classicT

Inspector Gift said:


> Ty,
> The roof diaphragm edge nailing is achieved by the 2x blocking (shown).  8d @ 6"o.c. is required per Table 602.3(1).


That is not the edge of the diaphragm. This is a huge misconception that I have seen spread wide and far. The edge, is the actual edge of the sheathing - the rim board at the edge of the eave. If in a SDC 'C', the truss/rafter blocking is not even required.

Check out the following - https://www.sbcindustry.com/system/...am/node/pdf/1185/educationpptheelblocking.pdf


----------



## ICE

Ty J. said:


> That is not the edge of the diaphragm. This is a huge misconception that I have seen spread wide and far. The edge, is the actual edge of the sheathing - the rim board at the edge of the eave. If in a SDC 'C', the truss/rafter blocking is not even required.
> 
> Check out the following - https://www.sbcindustry.com/system/...am/node/pdf/1185/educationpptheelblocking.pdf



The edge of the diaphragm is where the boundary nailing occurs.  In our case that's over the eave blocks so that a transfer to the wall can be accomplished.  The 602 diagram that you posted is in fact in our residential code.

The following detail is what we apply:


----------



## classicT

ICE said:


> The edge of the diaphragm is where the boundary nailing occurs.  In our case that's over the eave blocks so that a transfer to the wall can be accomplished.  The 602 diagram that you posted is inn fact in our residential code.
> 
> The following detail is what we apply:
> 
> View attachment 5788


Ok, so your jurisdiction has a local amendment that requires something other than the IRC.

That's great, but the IRC does not require what you were illustrating.


----------



## ICE

Ty J. said:


> Ok, so your jurisdiction has a local amendment that requires something other than the IRC.
> 
> That's great, but the IRC does not require what you were illustrating.



I didn't realize that I was out there in left field. I do try to refrain from leading the masses astray.  For all that see this please understand that what I post or do has little relevance beyond where I work.....and you don't.  As Chevy Chase would say, "I'm tigerloose and you're not"


----------



## conarb

I recently built a home that I specifically asked the engineer to design it without bird blocking so I could get full airflow from the soffit vents up through the cathedral ceiling,


----------



## jar546

This was just getting good


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> I recently built a home that I specifically asked the engineer to design it without bird blocking so I could get full airflow from the soffit vents up through the cathedral ceiling,



The roof diaphragm can provide a little or a lot of resistance.  It depends on the building that’s under it.  My engineer explained that a recent roof was built with the capacity for 260 lbs. per lineal foot but only 60 lbs. was required.

The subject came up because an inspector disallowed roof sheathing that was fastened with staples instead of nails.  As it turns out staples are about 80% as efficient as nails.  Then another engineer said that staples allow movement greater than that which a nail would allow.

It is worth noting that plans almost always specify common nails and common nails are almost alwys replaced with sinkers.  A 20% reduction for sinkers is about right.

As an aside; try ripping stapled plywood from framing.....  It ain't coming off.
When I worked as a carpenter I used a finish nail gun for things like handrail backing and fireblocks.  The nail gun is smaller which is a plus and the block wouldn't move when I shot it.  Other carpenters scoffed until they tried to pull a block out.


----------



## mtlogcabin

FIGURE R602.10.8.2(2)
BRACED WALL PANEL CONNECTION OPTION TO PERPENDICULAR RAFTERS OR ROOF TRUSSES

Is an alternate which uses the eave and then transfer the load using soffit sheathing back to the braced wall panel.


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:


> FIGURE R602.10.8.2(2)
> BRACED WALL PANEL CONNECTION OPTION TO PERPENDICULAR RAFTERS OR ROOF TRUSSES
> 
> Is an alternate which uses the eave and then transfer the load using soffit sheathing back to the braced wall panel.


----------



## ICE

This is what a C-tap looks like when it was crimped with bolt cutters.


----------



## Norcal

ICE said:


> This is what a C-tap looks like when it was crimped with bolt cutters.
> 
> View attachment 5796



Did you write a correction for it?


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> Did you write a correction for it?


Absolutely. Beyond that, only two wires are allowed in a C-tap.


----------



## ICE

The second story addition is legal.







This was approved too.




Needs paint.


----------



## ICE

A well advertised contractor asked me to approve a furnace and A/C.  They just don't even try to get it right.


----------



## ICE

They sell the work faster than they can hire competent people to perform the work.




https://flic.kr/p/2h83tr3


https://flic.kr/p/2hfJ4Zk


----------



## steveray

Hey....But they know they need the 181B tape.....


----------



## ADAguy

ICE said:


> California has a requirement for a "cool roof".  The color of the roofing is one indicator of a cool roof.  The installation of a radiant barrier is one exception to the requirement.  That applies to much of the state but not in my jurisdiction as we changed it up some.  So the company that manufactures Low-E touts it as a radiant blocker.....not a radiant barrier.....ICC is quick to point out that Therma Sheet has not been tested or approved as a radiant barrier.
> 
> It looks like a radiant barrier what with the aluminum foil and all......but it's not.  A legitimate radiant barrier requires a minimum one inch air gap.  I see OSB with radiant barrier being installed over 1"x sheathing because the people doing it lack an understanding of how it works.
> 
> While the energy requirements are sorta important the bigger concern is the up to 7/16" layer of foam rubber under an asphalt shingle.  Even if they go with one layer of Therma Sheet and one layer of felt, there's the lap splices.
> 
> It's one of those things that a right thinking person recognizes as foolish but there's nothing that can be done about it.



Won't foam rubber break down from heat over time?


----------



## ICE

ADAguy said:


> Won't foam rubber break down from heat over time?


Maybe but I don't think it would matter.


----------



## tmurray

ICE said:


> Maybe but I don't think it would matter.



No, it won't matter. Everyone will be dead from carbon monoxide poisoning well before it breaks down.


----------



## ICE




----------



## e hilton

“How do i cite thee ... let me count the ways”


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> View attachment 5869
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5870
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 5871


Just Wondering, what is it supposed to become?


----------



## ICE

Msradell said:


> Just Wondering, what is it supposed to become?


This will be a basement of a 9000 sq.ft. house.


----------



## steveray

Until the surcharge from that retaining wall/ hill makes it a 0000 ft house....


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> This will be a basement of a 9000 sq.ft. house.


Okay, I get it, it's a low budget project. There must be one heck of a view or else you would think they could've found a much better lot.


----------



## ICE

Wait till you see the pool.


----------



## linnrg

I need to have the side by side fridge so I can keep my stuff on my side.  This was in a local hostel type place


----------



## linnrg

Lady calls me quite upset because she says her contractor won't turn on the heat and she wanted to know why I had not yet give the go ahead - I sent her this picture of the missing gas meters!


----------



## linnrg

that beam with its monokote is somewhat less than 80" - the stairway is the receive a hard lid


----------



## e hilton

How much did the beam miss by?   And how do you make a mistake like that in commercial work?


----------



## Pcinspector1

I like his hat!

Needs some orange mushrooms!


----------



## linnrg

bottom of beam corner is at 80" without the monokote


----------



## classicT

linnrg said:


> that beam with its monokote is somewhat less than 80" - the stairway is the receive a hard lid


Please tell me that those are temporary handrails too....


----------



## ICE

The job is a fitness center.  The copper pipe was not de-burred.  The copper on the floor is what was replaced.  There's a bunch of it.  I expected a great deal of push-back from the contractors but they didn't say anything and worked Saturday and Sunday.


----------



## ICE

linnrg said:


> I need to have the side by side fridge so I can keep my stuff on my side.  This was in a local hostel type place


Actually, a Privat is an animal prized by the indigenous people of the upper Amazon rain forest.  Illegal logging threatens the habitat of the tasty, nocturnal rodent.


----------



## e hilton

How do you know it was not deburred?  Cant tell once the fitting is soldered in place.


----------



## fatboy

e hilton said:


> How do you know it was not deburred?  Cant tell once the fitting is soldered in place.



You require the contractor to expose one joint........if it fails.....we keep moving on.........till we say....do over.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> How do you know it was not deburred?  Cant tell once the fitting is soldered in place.


I always ask for a fitting to be removed. If it has not been reamed I ask for another one. Two was enough on this job.  The plumber thanked me today.  He appreciated the education.


----------



## e hilton

So they have to un-solder a joint?   Seems that would be a great incentive to get it right the first time.


----------



## Norcal

ICE said:


> I always ask for a fitting to be removed. If it has not been reamed I ask for another one. Two was enough on this job.  The plumber thanked me today.  He appreciated the education.



Lot easier to ream as the pipe is being fitted, as opposed to after sweating it.


----------



## Rick18071

ICE said:


> I always ask for a fitting to be removed. If it has not been reamed I ask for another one. Two was enough on this job.  The plumber thanked me today.  He appreciated the education.



Interesting. How many inspectors do that?


----------



## Inspector Gift

We've never done that.  We would have to have solid reason to justify such an action.  And even if we did, a complaint is sure to go to the State Building Codes Division, who would over-ride our actions and tell us to focus on the more important items, such as cross-contamination, and back-flow prevention.


----------



## Rick18071

Just wondering if you also make them take apart PVC joints to see that burrs where removed per manufacturers installation instructions?


----------



## JCraver

Illinois' plumbing code sucks.  But if the plumbing code you're working under is causing you or your inspectors to make a contractor take pipes apart to inspect them for burrs, then it's way, way worse.

I don't inspect plumbing, because my State has determined they're smarter than me and their guys should do it (guys who I have never even heard of asking for a plumber to unsolder a connection as part of an inspection, btw..).  So I don't have a dog in this particular fight, and really don't care what happens in wherever else jurisdiction.  But - you're overstepping if you're asking for this, and you're not doing anything good for the impression the trades and the public have for the rest of us.  So knock it off.


----------



## classicT

JCraver said:


> Illinois' plumbing code sucks.  But if the plumbing code you're working under is causing you or your inspectors to make a contractor take pipes apart to inspect them for burrs, then it's way, way worse.
> 
> I don't inspect plumbing, because my State has determined they're smarter than me and their guys should do it (guys who I have never even heard of asking for a plumber to unsolder a connection as part of an inspection, btw..).  So I don't have a dog in this particular fight, and really don't care what happens in wherever else jurisdiction.  But - you're overstepping if you're asking for this, and you're not doing anything good for the impression the trades and the public have for the rest of us.  So knock it off.


I agree....

This is means and methods. Yes, the contractor is req'd and should be aware that this is necessary, but where in the IPC/UPC does it support destructive examination. Seeing it ongoing and requiring demonstration is one thing I suppose, but regularly requiring destructive examination seems extremely excessive.


----------



## linnrg

was on a job recently where the plumber was still putting fittings together prior to the rough in inspection  and I watched him do one without deburring (I smilingly let him finish his solder).  Then at my request  I stood there and watched him unsolder the joint and watched him deburr  - he was not happy and less so when I asked for more.  That's the only time I have ever asked for it (two more showed that he had been deburring).  I joked at the time that maybe I should routinely ask for a joint to be taken apart for proof.  Lately we see very little copper except on the commercial projects.  Now I am not advocating the destruction proof but guess that the deburring is routinely not done.


----------



## ICE

You naysayers don’t know what you are talking about.  You don’t inspect plumbing but you’ll tell me how to do it?  Somehow I’m making you look bad?  It’s good that you don’t inspect plumbing.

Plumbing systems have failed because the pipe was not reamed.  It’s not a huge deal to cut out a fitting.  It is a huge deal if the pipes develop pinholes.  I have seen it happen.  An apartment complex had so many failures that the owner repiped the entire complex.

I’ve heard old plumbers say “I haven’t had to do this for many years......the younger inspectors don’t know any better.”

And by the way, this isn’t new....I posted the same thing years ago......it was a Mosque and a bunch of plumbing.


----------



## ICE

Rick18071 said:


> Just wondering if you also make them take apart PVC joints to see that burrs where removed per manufacturers installation instructions?


We don’t allow PVC for potable water inside a building.  The scouring action that turbulence performs wears copper away but I have not heard that as a problem for CPVC.  It doesn’t seem likely but I haven’t had anyone plumb inside with CPVC.

Go ahead and ask me about ABS dwv.


----------



## JCraver

ICE said:


> You naysayers don’t know what you are talking about.  You don’t inspect plumbing but you’ll tell me how to do it?  Somehow I’m making you look bad?  It’s good that you don’t inspect plumbing.
> 
> Plumbing systems have failed because the pipe was not reamed.  It’s not a huge deal to cut out a fitting.  It is a huge deal if the pipes develop pinholes.  I have seen it happen.  An apartment complex had so many failures that the owner repiped the entire complex.
> 
> I’ve heard old plumbers say “I haven’t had to do this for many years......the younger inspectors don’t know any better.”
> 
> And by the way, this isn’t new....I posted the same thing years ago......it was a Mosque and a bunch of plumbing.




You might be right.  I don't inspect plumbing (except for every residential job because the State guys are too busy and can't get here, but I'm not supposed to talk about that...  Don't tell anyone.).  But I'm pretty firmly in the camp that says asking a plumber to disassemble his completed work is a crappy thing to do. It doesn't bother you, so you keep doin' it how you do it.  I'm pretty ok with agreeing to disagree.


----------



## Inspector Gift

ICE, yesterday I shared your deburring story with a local plumber.   (He deburrs the copper.)   And he agreed that it is very important to deburr the copper pipe.  He then shared his own personal story of having had to replace a section of 3/4" pipe that had failed due to the high volume and high pressure of the water thru a single section of pipe that had caused a vortex action and "drilled thru" the next 90 degree elbow.  
But this plumber also agreed that not one inspector in his 30+ year career has ever asked him to take apart his work to show that the pipes ends were deburred.


----------



## JPohling

Keep it up Ice!  We need more inspectors like you out there.


----------



## ICE

JCraver said:


> I'm pretty ok with agreeing to disagree.



Ok with me.


----------



## mtlogcabin

Do you make the HVAC guys open up their hydronic systems since it is a re-circulation system which will have water running 24/7 and fuel oil pipe systems and verify they have reamed the cut pipe ends as required by the IMC?
I am not saying you are wrong in verifying compliance. However it is usually better to observe the worker and educate them as to the reason for a code requirement than to punish them with a correction.

*Copper*

Pinhole leaks are small leaks that come about from the process of "pitting corrosion" on the inside of the pipe; this is one of the most common causes of leaks in copper pipes. While the exact causes can be difficult to pin down, they're often related to water chemistry. The corrosion can be a result of well water, acidic water (pH <7), hard water, excessively soft water, and even chemicals added by the water provider. Once a leak actually appears (usually in a horizontal run of pipe), it's likely there's already plenty more interior corrosion to be found.
Standing water in a copper line can not only begin to corrode the pipe (if the water is particularly aggressive, or contains microorganisms), but in a new pipe it can inhibit the formation of the protective oxide layer mentioned above. The remaining "bare" areas of the pipe's interior are left vulnerable to corrosive water once it starts to flow. This phenomenon has been observed with new homes and apartment complexes whose water was turned on, but were left uninhabited for some time.
Debris isn't good to have in any pipe (or stuck in screens/aerators), but it poses a particular threat inside copper. Like the standing water mentioned above, things like debris from installation/repair, iron deposits from a rusting water heater, and sediment in the supply can prevent uniform formation of the oxide layer inside the pipe, making those areas more vulnerable to corrosion.
Joining copper requires the use of flux and solder: the former for cleaning and priming, the latter for the actual joining. With older systems, when too much flux was applied to the pipe, it could run down the interior. Because acids are a key component of flux, this could lead to corrosion in those areas. Code now requires the use of water-soluble flux to prevent this from occurring.
Before it's ever soldered, pipe has to be cut. A bad cut, failure to ream (deburr) the pipe afterward, or too much solder (which can remain inside the pipe) will lead to excessive turbulence in the area - think of a boulder in a rushing stream - that ends in a process called "erosion corrosion". If you've ever seen horseshoe-looking pits inside a corroded pipe, this was the cause. The increase in the water's velocity inside the pipe can also lead to water hammer.
Some older homes have their electrical system grounded to their copper plumbing system. When this is done incorrectly, stray current can run through copper pipe, hastening external corrosion. It's also possible for DC current from an outside source (like some mass-transit systems) to find its way to a residential copper system; the resulting electrolysis will likewise eat at the copper. Luckily, such electrical-related issues are rare.
Soil quality can promote exterior corrosion in buried copper pipes. Soil that's high in sulfates, chlorides and other chemicals can attack copper in the right circumstances, as can soil having a low pH. External corrosion that can't be traced to electrical issues may be the result of such soils.
IMC
1203.2 Preparation of pipe ends.
Pipe shall be cut square, reamed and chamfered, and shall be free of burrs and obstructions. Pipe ends shall have full-bore openings and shall not be undercut.
1303.2 Preparation of pipe ends.
All pipe shall be cut square, reamed and chamfered and be free of all burrs and obstructions. Pipe ends shall have full-bore openings and shall not be undercut.


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:


> Do you make the HVAC guys open up their hydronic systems since it is a re-circulation system which will have water running 24/7 and fuel oil pipe systems and verify they have reamed the cut pipe ends as required by the IMC?
> I am not saying you are wrong in verifying compliance. However it is usually better to observe the worker and educate them as to the reason for a code requirement than to punish them with a correction.



The only hydronic system that I have inspected was for heating a warehouse slab as the warehouse was a freezer.  Fuel oil pipe has never crossed my path.  

For sure catching the mistake as it is being made is superior to after the fact....I have done that...... but even with red hands a bunch of plumbing is usually done over.

I have never felt like I am meeting out punishment.  I take no pleasure in writing corrections.  I admit to being pleased that I didn't miss that which I caught but I generally wish that it had not happened at all.  When I wrote this latest plumber's nightmare I understood that the cost would be large.  The material came to $3,000. I was with the plumbing and general superintendents....The look on their face was sad to see.  Mistakes like these can cost people their job.  I left there thinking, "Dammit, why didn't they ream the pipe."

As to this practice of cutting out a few fittings being too much to bear; what about the fact that the pipe was not reamed and I found that out?  I can't really use, "It was too much to ask for" as an excuse if the pipe fails.

What to do....what to do.  Damned if I do and damned if I don't.  Keeping in mind that this has occurred a dozen times....better to have contractors hating me than a ruined building with my name on the permit.


----------



## north star

*# ~ # ~ # ~ #*

FWIW, *...from the `15 IPC, Section 605.13.3 - Solder joints:*
"Solder joints shall be made in accordance with ASTM B 828....Cut
tube end *shall be reamed* to the full inside diameter of the tube
end".

Also, pvc piping is not an approved type of piping for water
distribution inside a building.........To a building, ...Yes !.......Inside a
building , ...No !

*& - & - & - & - &*


----------



## steveray

Ty J. said:


> I agree....
> 
> This is means and methods. Yes, the contractor is req'd and should be aware that this is necessary, but where in the IPC/UPC does it support destructive examination. Seeing it ongoing and requiring demonstration is one thing I suppose, but regularly requiring destructive examination seems extremely excessive.



If you want to go down that road...Where in the IPC does it say that the inspector needs to witness the test that we all require?

[A] 107.2 Required inspections and testing. The code official,
upon notification from the permit holder or the permit
holder’s agent, shall make the following inspections and such
other inspections as necessary, and shall either release that
portion of the construction or shall notify the permit holder or
an agent of any violations that must be corrected. The holder
of the permit shall be responsible for the scheduling of such
inspections.
1. Underground inspection shall be made after trenches or
ditches are excavated and bedded, piping installed, and
before any backfill is put in place.
2. Rough-in inspection shall be made after the roof, framing,
fireblocking, firestopping, draftstopping and bracing
is in place and all sanitary, storm and water
distribution piping is roughed-in, and prior to the installation
of wall or ceiling membranes.
3. Final inspection shall be made after the building is
complete, all plumbing fixtures are in place and properly
connected, and the structure is ready for occupancy.

     While I agree that it is not the norm, I would think that once word got around, there would be some really good plumbing in ICE's area....I would love to be able to do this, but the local/State push-back would be huge. I don't think that taking apart one joint is excessive, "as necessary" supports requiring witness to the test and the exposing of one joints....IMO....Education is expensive and they learn alot from ICE...


----------



## ICE

The job is an enclosed patio cover.  It has an ICC ESR#.  The question I have has to do with drainage.  The concrete slab was existing and has some slope to drain to the street.  Now the enclosure will be in the way of that.  The concrete slopes to the enclosure on all three sides.
I find that to be a problem.  The argument that has been presented is that this is just a patio cover and as such there is no requirement to drain away from the structure.  There is caulk between the bottom track and the concrete.

I am interested in opinions.







In the last picture there is a stain that might indicate were water flows.  The slab slopes towards the track but the picture makes it look steeper than it actually is.


----------



## MtnArch

Although it just doesn't seem right, without a specific code section to cite I'm not sure there is anything you could do other than suggest that the Owner consider how to drain it when it DOES get water in it (or they want to wash it out).


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> .  The argument that has been presented is that this is just a patio cover
> View attachment 5902


I disagree with the definition / excuse presented.  A patio “cover” would be several support posts and a roof of some kind.  Once you add walls and a sill it becomes something else.


----------



## ICE

California Residential Code:
PATIO COVER. A structure with open or glazed walls that is used for recreational, outdoor living purposes associated with a dwelling unit.


----------



## classicT

Are any of the materials used in construction of the patio cover susceptible to water damage?

If aluminum and galvanized tek screws, what's the concern?


----------



## e hilton

The concern is ponding water, that cannot drain because the wall is in the way.


----------



## steveray

R403.1.7.3 Foundation elevation. On graded sites, the
top of any exterior foundation shall extend above the
elevation of the street gutter at point of discharge or the
inlet of an approved drainage device a minimum of 12
inches (305 mm) plus 2 percent. Alternate elevations
are permitted subject to the approval of the building
official, provided it can be demonstrated that required
drainage to the point of discharge and away from the
structure is provided at all locations on the site.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

The job is a replacement furnace and A/C with an electric service upgrade.  The original service was located where the wall is patched.  I don't know what the prior service equipment was.  The new service was placed over a hole in the wall where the original service panel was located.  That is not allowed and the new service was under four feet away from the pool.  I wrote a correction to relocate the service and not over a hole in the wall.





There is a 4"x4" box in the wall.





It was moved around a corner......over a hole in the wall.









The contractor is upset because "I am the only inspector that writes corrections on their work."  He said that he is considering refusing work in my area.  He thinks that it would matter because he does a lot of Sears installations.  I remember when Sears had a good reputation.


----------



## e hilton

Service calls are going to be expensive on that roof to unit.  

re: relocating the service ... whats the issue with locating the panel over a hole?   Why is that not allowed?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Service calls are going to be expensive on that roof to unit.
> 
> re: relocating the service ... whats the issue with locating the panel over a hole?   Why is that not allowed?


CEC 312.2
CRC R703.1

I am at work and can't copy and paste the code language….


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE, 
Pic #3619 does that set-up have a main disconnect below the meter socket? 

We don't have those here, just curious. I'll look the panel up if I don't here from someone.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> ICE,
> Pic #3619 does that set-up have a main disconnect below the meter socket?
> 
> We don't have those here, just curious. I'll look the panel up if I don't here from someone.


There is a 100 amp main breaker.


----------



## ADAguy

steveray said:


> R403.1.7.3 Foundation elevation. On graded sites, the
> top of any exterior foundation shall extend above the
> elevation of the street gutter at point of discharge or the
> inlet of an approved drainage device a minimum of 12
> inches (305 mm) plus 2 percent. Alternate elevations
> are permitted subject to the approval of the building
> official, provided it can be demonstrated that required
> drainage to the point of discharge and away from the
> structure is provided at all locations on the site.



Only applies to "permanent" structures or patio covers too?


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> I am at work and can't copy and paste the code language….


i would  prefer your personal explanation rather than code text.


----------



## steveray

ADAguy said:


> Only applies to "permanent" structures or patio covers too?



Everything with a "foundation" under the IRC.....Everything is permanent other than a tent......


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> i would  prefer your personal explanation rather than code text.


I will do that when I have time..... with pictures.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> i would  prefer your personal explanation rather than code text.



312.2 Damp and Wet Locations. In damp or wet locations, surface-type enclosures within the scope of this article shall be placed or equipped so as to prevent moisture or water from entering and accumulating within the cabinet or cutout box, and shall be mounted so there is at least 6- mm (o-in.) airspace between the enclosure and the wall or other supporting surface. Enclosures installed in wet locations shall be weatherproof. For enclosures in wet locations, raceways or cables entering above the level of uninsulated live parts shall use fittings listed for wet locations.

R703.1 General. Exterior walls shall provide the building with a weather-resistant exterior wall envelope.

The cabinet can't be sealed to the wall.  Water will get behind the cabinet and enter the wall cavity as well as the cabinet.  Conductors are spliced without benefit of a junction box.  Some would say that punching holes here and there violates the cabinet listing.




The claim was made that there are no splices in the wall.


----------



## ICE

The request for inspection was under-slab plumbing and footing and slab.  They were upset when I asked them to expose the plumbing.




A day later they were happy because I got there early.



Here they are doing their best to make me happy by correcting 1/8" negative slope.


----------



## e hilton

I understand the part anout no splices in the wall.  But if you install a panel over an old hole, and there are no penetrations in the cabinet at the hole ... ?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> I understand the part anout no splices in the wall.  But if you install a panel over an old hole, and there are no penetrations in the cabinet at the hole ... ?


The hole is an opening in the exterior wall.  The 1/4” gap between the cabinet and the wall will let water and bugs into the wall cavity.


----------



## e hilton

Fair enough.  
Now ... does the 1/4” gap mean the panels cannot be recessed?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Fair enough.
> Now ... does the 1/4” gap mean the panels cannot be recessed?


It depends on the panel.  Some are approved to be flush some are not.  Some can be surface mount or semi-flush.


----------



## steveray

ICE said:


> 312.2 Damp and Wet Locations. In damp or wet locations, surface-type enclosures within the scope of this article shall be placed or equipped so as to prevent moisture or water from entering and accumulating within the cabinet or cutout box, and shall be mounted so there is at least 6- mm (o-in.) airspace between the enclosure and the wall or other supporting surface. Enclosures installed in wet locations shall be weatherproof. For enclosures in wet locations, raceways or cables entering above the level of uninsulated live parts shall use fittings listed for wet locations.



Would you guys cite someone for vinyl siding tight around a meter can? Or just strictly the gap behind? Asking for a friend....


----------



## ADAguy

steveray said:


> Everything with a "foundation" under the IRC.....Everything is permanent other than a tent......



Is a patio "slab" a foundation?


----------



## conarb

As you can see from the picture that panel has no flange for a waterproof mounting, as far as I recall I've never seen a panel with a flange for waterproofed mounting.  About 15 years ago I remodeled a few homes I had built in the 70s, there was a common failure in all of them, all of the shower wall penetrations for valves were leaking, nobody makes a shower valve with a flange for a waterproof installation (like a shower drain).  I went so far as to call Moen and Delta but they wouldn't talk to me about the problem, they had their code approval so they didn't care whether they leaked or not, especially 30 years later.

Years ago I was talking to a construction defects attorney and asked him about having a building inspector testify about something, his response was that building inspectors never deal with the important stuff (this is the guy who got $19 million for leaking windows set in sealant per mafs specifications so to code), I think the problem here is Tiger is beginning to confuse building well and building to code, two entirely different things, maybe we all ought to all kick in some money and stage an intervention for him.


----------



## Rick18071

steveray said:


> Would you guys cite someone for vinyl siding tight around a meter can? Or just strictly the gap behind? Asking for a friend....


I would like to know the proper way too. We have very few stucco walls here, almost all are vinyl siding.The electrician always mounts the meter panel over a piece of house rap before the siding crew comes in.


----------



## steveray

ADAguy said:


> Is a patio "slab" a foundation?



IMO...If you build walls on it....yes. Everything gets built on a "foundation", it is just usually frost protection that is in debate...

R401.2 Requirements. Foundation construction shall be
capable of accommodating all loads in accordance with Section
R301 and of transmitting the resulting loads to the supporting
soil. Fill soils that support footings and foundations
shall be designed, installed and tested in accordance with
accepted engineering practice. Gravel fill used as footings for
wood and precast concrete foundations shall comply with
Section R403.


----------



## my250r11

Rick18071 said:


> We have very few stucco walls here, almost all are vinyl siding.The electrician always mounts the meter panel over a piece of house rap before the siding crew comes in.



So you are okay with any rain, snow, moisture getting directly in the wall?

I'm in the dessert and we don't allow it. Stucco, vinyl, brick, etc. As stated earlier, most exterior boxes are not listed to be in stucco,brick, etc. Here we have the install WRB then cement board and mount the box to that and stucco to the cement board. If vinyl, usually installed on top of uni-strut after vinyl. Same with brick, box installed after brick. These areas are usually done first so the box can be set to get rough-in.


----------



## tmurray

my250r11 said:


> So you are okay with any rain, snow, moisture getting directly in the wall?
> 
> I'm in the dessert and we don't allow it. Stucco, vinyl, brick, etc. As stated earlier, most exterior boxes are not listed to be in stucco,brick, etc. Here we have the install WRB then cement board and mount the box to that and stucco to the cement board. If vinyl, usually installed on top of uni-strut after vinyl. Same with brick, box installed after brick. These areas are usually done first so the box can be set to get rough-in.



Siding does not protect against rain, snow, or moisture. That is the weather resistant barrier's job. Siding's job is to protect the weather resistant barrier and to look pretty. In high moisture areas, like where I am, we even add a secondary plane of protection to fight capillary action.


----------



## my250r11

tmurray said:


> That is the weather resistant barrier's job. Siding's job is to protect the weather resistant barrier



I agree. The areas between the meters and panels is not protected if not installed first. Here that means the sun will destroy the WRB in a very short amount of time and then you will have a direct opening in the WRB to the wall behind it. We don't get much rain but when we do it is in large amount at once. 6" in 2 days last week.


----------



## tmurray

my250r11 said:


> I agree. The areas between the meters and panels is not protected if not installed first. Here that means the sun will destroy the WRB in a very short amount of time and then you will have a direct opening in the WRB to the wall behind it. We don't get much rain but when we do it is in large amount at once. 6" in 2 days last week.


Very true. The degradation is usually related to UV damage, so here int he Great White North, we can wait around for that kind of thing.


----------



## ICE

This solar array will produce at peak performance for about an hour each day.  A major PV company did this.  They also installed a 200 amp electric service and have stood me up three times in a row.


----------



## MtnArch

Gotta be something in their contract .. "homeowner to trim all vegetation to below roof" ..


----------



## e hilton

Dont know what the orientation is, but it looks like the roof on the left could support some panels.  At the time the picture was taken, they would be replacing the ones on the right that are shaded.


----------



## ADAguy

Would that be East facing, if so, duh!


----------



## ICE

ADAguy said:


> Would that be East facing, if so, duh!


yes


----------



## ICE

EMT is permitted to be used as an equivalent to an equipment grounding conductor.  I have a poor opinion of that practice.  Here we see the lock ring at a sub-panel.  I can see approximately eight of eighty feet of EMT.  The contractor is serious about his reluctance to provide a wire for the EGC.






The feeder involved shall be #2 awg.  The contractor points to the -2 after THWN as proof that this is in fact #2.  Even if the lock ring was tight I am pretty sure that I wouldn't approve the EMT as a grounding path.  Well in fairness I should point out that there were a bunch more mistakes made.




He acted surprised when I asked for the dead front to be removed from a sub-panel.  The job is a service panel upgrade ........which had him wondering why I want to see inside..... he pointed out that there are no breakers in the sub-panel...."What are you looking for?"  Once the dead front was removed I said, "That, I was looking for that."


----------



## ICE

A major HVAC contractor that can't hire competent help or supervise the help they have.  The picture is taken from the attic access.




I can count on them to never have a sloped condensate drain.


----------



## ICE

The job is a service upgrade.  The person that met me was quick to point out that he drove 75 miles to be there.  When they tell me that up front it is taken as a plea to go easy on them.....you know.....no minor corrections.  I always take that into consideration and if there's a minor correction I might allow a picture of the correction completed to final the permit.  However, more often that not I find major and minor corrections.

The existing ground rod was reused.







There's more that they don't get about grounding.


----------



## e hilton

And holes in the bottom of the can.


----------



## ICE

One of the corrections dealt with the single wall vent connector being too close to wood.




This was done as a result of the correction.











The guy has a mechanical contractors license.  I don't have near enough power.


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## ICE

After all we have been through together, they actually thought that I would walk the planks.  And oh did they sag when the kid crossed over.




It wasn't a month ago that I advised them on impalement protection.  I guess they will need a live demonstration before it sinks in.


----------



## ICE

Alrighty then...  we're back to inspecting your job


----------



## e hilton

Not osha compliant ... no toe board.  Handrail ends on the left not attached to posts.


----------



## ICE

The next four were done by a licensed contractor.


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## e hilton

Was he a licensed plumber?


----------



## ADAguy

What has become of "pride" of workmanship?


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## fatboy

ADAguy said:


> What has become of "pride" of workmanship?



Not much left these days...…..


----------



## ICE




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## e hilton

I don’t see the problem. Everyone knows if the ends of the wires are not more than 1/3” from the connection ... the lectrizity jumps the gap.   I saw that on angies list, must be true.


----------



## steveray

fatboy said:


> Not much left these days...…..



Still some pride left....Usually a group of lions......Thank you very much, I'll be in Vegas all week, don't forget to tip your wait staff!


----------



## Pcinspector1

#3660, That's pretty bad ICE. I looked at the first picture an thought that wire looks like its to large for the lug , then I saw the second picture and confirmed my suspicion.


----------



## fatboy

steveray said:


> Still some pride left....Usually a group of lions......Thank you very much, I'll be in Vegas all week, don't forget to tip your wait staff!



Maybe I'll see you there!


----------



## BLangley

The beatings are effective. I saw the problem before getting to the zoomed in pic


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## ICE

This might be difficult to fix.  It is the power to a kitchen island with a slab on grade.  The contractor said, "But it is in a conduit."


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## ICE

The job is a kitchen remodel.  I was there for the final inspection.  There are corrections.  When I asked to see the service panel the owner asked me if I would tell Edison to hook up the power.  I told her that I don't tell Edison to energize .....only de-energize.  So I took a look at the service drop and sure enough, Edison didn't hook it up.  As it turns out the service was replaced about four years ago and it was never released to Edison.  This took place on a Friday so I haven't looked at the address file to know if a permit was issued.  I hope so.....and not just issued, but with a final approval as well.







I see couple each month.


----------



## ICE




----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> This might be difficult to fix.  It is the power to a kitchen island with a slab on grade.  The contractor said, "But it is in a conduit."


I dont understand what you’re showing.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> As it turns out the service was replaced about four years ago and it was never released to Edison.


Does that mean they have not had power for 4 years?


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## ICE

e hilton said:


> Does that mean they have not had power for 4 years?


The pictures show temporary connections of Edison’s service drop to the service entrance conductors.  That is a technical code violation.....the service equipment is not supposed to be energized until  it is approved.  People can’t be without power while waiting for inspection and then waiting for Edison to hook it up.  The practice makes it easy to spot bootleg panels.

The same technicality applies to water heaters and a furnace/air conditioner.  Those are always in use before I perform an inspection and sometimes not after.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> I dont understand what you’re showing.


The picture is NMC in a conduit that is buried under a slab.  Conduit underground is a wet location.  NMC is not allowed in a wet location.  Pulling NMC into a conduit is difficult so I would imagine that pulling it out of a conduit is equally difficult.  Such a mistake makes me leery of the entire installation.  That's not welcome ....especially with a 9,000 square foot main house, guest house and pool house.  The project has taken five years and I came in after it was mostly completed.


----------



## ICE

At the third or fourth inspection I made a correction to thicken the slab where it meets the existing.  I say third or fourth because the first was just a hole.
And so he did that.....better than anyone has ever done.




Then I noticed that the Visqeen seemed to be self supporting.




The work is being done by the owner.  The owner is a computer engineer.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> The picture is NMC in a conduit that is buried under a slab. .


Thats what I thought, just wanted to be sure.  So could they run individual THHN conductors?  
I was managing a commercial project, gc was ... of questionable ethics ... the electrician ran an orange extension cord to a couple of in-slab outlets.   He cut off the plug and socket, thought i wouldn't notice.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> So could they run individual THHN conductors?



THHN No. A conductor that is listed for a wet location is required.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> THHN No. A conductor that is listed for a wet location is required.


Learn sumtin eberyday aroun hear.   But you made me look it up, you old goat.   The wire needs “w” in the name to be in a wet location.  THWN would work.


----------



## Norcal

Most THHN is dual rated as THHN /THWN just have to look at the info printed on the conductors.


----------



## ICE

Here’s a violation that is missed often.  Underground conduit shall be sealed where it enters a building.  I never find that done.


_300.50 Underground Installations. 
(F) Raceway Seal. Where a raceway enters from an underground system, the end within the building shall be sealed with an identified compound so as to prevent the entrance of moisture or gases, or it shall be so arranged to prevent moisture from contacting live parts. 
_
This part may get in the way of asking the contractor to seal the conduit in this case: _"or it shall be so arranged to prevent moisture from contacting live parts." 
_
I have heard electricians claim that if a conduit is underground it will have water in it.  I know of one building that was damaged when water made it in through a conduit.


----------



## linnrg

Duct tape is not a seal.  Here in this country the unsealed conduit will be froze broken.


----------



## ICE

The manager of the district office that I report to has informed me that slab dowels are not required by code.  He stated that dowels serve an aesthetic purpose in that they keep the floor tied together but they are not required unless they are specified on the plans.




With that fresh in my mind I encountered a bathroom remodel.  This is what I found for an under slab plumbing inspection.  I wrote a correction to expose the pipe.




This is what I found at the followup inspection.




It is a relief to know that I won't have to argue with them about doweling the concrete.


----------



## Pcinspector1

I've got a concrete guy that doesn't want to dowel the slab back together over a pipe trench! Gonna be sorry when the floor tile cracks,  the home owner will most likely be upset. I would document "No trench doweling observed!" on my inspection report. It's a CYA moment.

We usually see the poly over the aggregate here, is this an engineers design? Is that slab over an existing slab? We also get insulation board on the inside edge of the footing if the wall is on the exterior. Depends on the energy code adopted I suspect.


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## mtlogcabin

New shoes or just a good polishing job on the old ones?


----------



## Pcinspector1

I thought his old pair were still okay, they have a good shine on em!


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## tmurray

Pcinspector1 said:


> We usually see the poly over the aggregate here, is this an engineers design?



It's a California thing. It dries the concrete out faster so that they can work it faster, however; it dries the concrete out faster making it more likely to crack, spall, etc.


----------



## ADAguy

East LA project?


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## ICE

ADAguy said:


> East LA project?


No.


----------



## ICE

I can detect subtle color changes.  That's important for a professional driver.







Did you think that I wouldn't look around the corner?



-------- I can multitask but my aim is off.

I guess that I'm not old enough to have seen much of this type NM




A licensed electrical contractor did this work.  It comes as no surprise that the panel was open and energized with the dead front removed and the slug that met me was sitting in his Prius playing with a phone.   I stopped chewing him out when he said, "I told the owner that I was here."

In defense of Sluggo, he's just not smart.....God made him that way.....so it's unhealthy for me to wish that I could break his fingers.

In defense of me, at least I know that.

It was the second time that it happened that day.    The things I find and the people doing it are becoming a load to carry.

The industry has morphed into cruel joke.  I just don't have a mindset for this anymore.  Who deserves what I have for them?

Tigerloose,


----------



## ICE

At the first inspection I found two appliance connectors.  We allow one and it is to be used as an appliance connector.  I wrote a correction to replace the second flex connector with hard pipe.  The contractor installed CSST instead of hard pipe.  Now he gets to intall a solid #6 bonding jumper from the hard pipe to the grounding electrode system.


----------



## e hilton

Appliance connector is the yellow flex pipe?  Or the black bendable pipe?   Either way, could you have one each for the gas furnace and the gas water heater?


----------



## ICE

The yellow pipe is an appliance connector.  More than one at a building is allowed but not as anything other than an appliance connector.


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## ICE

The T&P drain pipe prevents the door from closing.  The owner is okay with that.  When the plumber tells him the cost to extend the T&P drain pipe to the exterior the owner will learn to despise me.


----------



## ICE

The job is an electric service upgrade.  The son-in-law of the 91 year old owner called to tell me that he was having trouble with the contractor.  There was an inspection set for that day and he was concerned because the electric dryer wasn't working.  The contractor didn't show up.




Well there's your problem.




Yet another service mounted over the old location with the conductors leaving through the back of the cabinet.  It's a good thing that I'm a combination inspector 'cause I can write more than electrical code violations.


----------



## jar546

ICE said:


> The job is an electric service upgrade.  The son-in-law of the 91 year old owner called to tell me that he was having trouble with the contractor.  There was an inspection set for that day and he was concerned because the electric dryer wasn't working.  The contractor didn't show up.
> 
> Well there's your problem.
> 
> Yet another service mounted over the old location with the conductors leaving through the back of the cabinet.  It's a good thing that I'm a combination inspector 'cause I can write more than electrical code violations.



I guess the temporary connection waiting for the utility company fell apart....... or was never made.


----------



## ICE

Wide open waiting to kill.  This is the normal condition that I find with every solar installation.  The worker is sitting in a vehicle and the deadly condition does not register with him or anyone else.




I tried to put a stop to this practice.....to no avail.  I used to refuse to perform the inspection.  The contractors would call my office and if they got through they would get an immediate replacement inspector.  I tried to levy a re-inspection fee.....it was waived for the asking.  I petitioned my department to institute a policy banning this practice......didn't happen.

So years later nobody has been shocked....at least not that I am aware of.....so what's the point in concerning myself with this?


----------



## e hilton

Thats an impressive number of coax cables on the left of the main panel.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> At the first inspection I found two appliance connectors.  We allow one and it is to be used as an appliance connector.  I wrote a correction to replace the second flex connector with hard pipe.  The contractor installed CSST instead of hard pipe.  Now he gets to intall a solid #6 bonding jumper from the hard pipe to the grounding electrode system.
> 
> View attachment 5981



GAS shut off valves? (not in picture)
WH pan drain?
Combustion air for GAS appliances, high/low vent? (not in picture)
Black CSST may not need the bonding wire, check manufactures install instructions. Yellow has the appliance tag and would not be required.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Black CSST may not need the bonding wire, check manufactures install instructions.



There is a manufacturer that claims that their CSST does not require a bonding jumper.   The code does require the jumper.....we do too.


----------



## ADAguy

The "joys" of being an inspector, Keep it up Ice.


----------



## ICE

The job was a PEX re-pipe.  Included was some new copper pipe at the main shut-off.  On re-pipe jobs I always look fo the electric service grounding.  Many times there was a GEC that was eliminated.  If I can't find a suitable connection to an electrode, I ask for a pair of ground rods a minimum six feet apart.

On this job a rod was placed below the service cabinet.  Fifty feet away from that rod I found another rod.  Forty feet from the second rod I found the water main connection.  The armor is bonded at both rods but not at the water main.  Now yes I know that the water main should be the primary electrode but I'm dealing with plumbers so when there is no interior pipe that must be bonded I go for two rods.  My bad but you should see the crazy things they will do if I ask them to go to the front.

In this case, the lady told me that the plumbing contractor hired an electrical contractor to provide the grounding.


----------



## ICE

Partly shaded at 10:30 am.  Mostly sunny by 11:30 am.  Mostly not by 1:30 pm.


----------



## ICE

C-Taps are great except for the fact that one in a hundred is installed correctly.




The guy that met me called his hefe.  He had a smug attitude....like boy you're in trouble now.  The hefe shouted at his phone.  With the unemployment rate near 3% I'm surprised that the hefe is a hefe.


----------



## linnrg

I am surprised that you have ever meet the Hefe given the items you find that are done by the untrained.


----------



## e hilton

Looks like the screw holding the bracket to the wall could use a washer to better cover the slot.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Looks like the screw holding the bracket to the wall could use a washer to better cover the slot.


Thanks


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> Thanks


You’re welcome.  Just call me Frost.  One day i might be Ice ...


----------



## ICE

The basement will be a wine cellar.  There is a sewage ejector.




I asked about the electrical.....The person that met me is the plumber.

He pointed to the pipe closest to me and said that it is the electrical conduit.


----------



## ADAguy

Point being? How many panels did you "sell" today?


----------



## ICE

There's lots of issues here but I don't have all day.

Suffice it to say that at one point I told the contractor to place OSHA approved impalement protection.  I even told him that only the flat version is OSHA approved.







It's right there on the top..."warning!! not to be used for impalement protection."




For you folks that will tell me that it is none of my business...well then, I know a good use for the mushrooms.


----------



## conarb

And people wonder why government employees *are the most hated people around*.


----------



## ICE

conarb said:


> And people wonder why government employees *are the most hated people around*.


What makes you think that people wonder why.


----------



## e hilton

So heres my opinion on the mushroom heads.  Is it right?  No.  Is it a good faith effort in a situation where no one is at an elevated position and likely to fall on the rebar?   Yes.  So ignore it, maybe mention to the contractor that it doesn’t meed osha, and go look for another problem.


----------



## ICE

At the first inspection there was about a dozen #4 bars sticking a foot out of the ground for alignment string.  They thought that the work was ready for the first phase of a two pour footing and slab.  I pointed out that there were no dowels and an engineered detail is required.  The contractor told me that the plan is to wet set the dowels.  We do not allow that and dowels shall be in prior to placing concrete.  I also mentioned the rebar missing caps.




They did get a detail and it is for a typical garage ..... they didn't even attempt to make it look like they would follow the detail.




e hilton,
While I agree with your assessment as to the relative danger, clearly these people are yanking my chain.


----------



## tmurray

conarb said:


> And people wonder why government employees *are the most hated people around*.


A safe work environment is everyone's responsibility.


----------



## ADAguy

tmurray said:


> A safe work environment is everyone's responsibility.



So true and yet if you speak up you don't have the power to shut the job down (but you can inform OSHA - (smiling).


----------



## ICE

ADAguy said:


> So true and yet if you speak up you don't have the power to shut the job down (but you can inform OSHA - (smiling).



You are right, I can't shut a job down for most safety issues....I has to involve the public's safety before I can shut it down.  However, I can refuse to get near it and by extension, refuse to inspect the work.  The result is nearly the same....one just takes longer than the other.


----------



## ICE

This one should get conarb wound up tight.

I was there for a sewer inspection.  I noticed that the service panel has been upgraded from the original and it looked suspicious.  The owner is a retired Sheriff.  He assured me that the panel was done by an electrical contractor with a permit.

I had no choice but to note deficiencies.








I talked him into GFCI for the pool pump.  It's a guess which circuit that might be because the pair of breakers that were labeled "Pool" are 70 amp.  I didn’t remove the dead front.




Solar has been installed and presumably, inspected by others.


----------



## ICE

It is all schedule 40.  The feeder is already in the conduit.  The objective is to supply a 200 amp sub-panel.  Do you ask them to correct the violation?


----------



## mtlogcabin

What options will you give them to correct the problem?


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> Do you ask them to correct the violation?


Not ask ... require.  Sometimes the surroundings make it difficult to do work ... not in this case.   No reason they couldn’t have done it right.


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:


> What options will you give them to correct the problem?


Paint.


----------



## ADAguy

Ice, "you" are De Man. Bet the sheriff's uniform was tidier than this job site.
Did you check the permit files after your visit?


----------



## ICE

ADAguy said:


> Did you check the permit files after your visit?



No.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> I was there for a sewer inspection. I noticed that the service panel has been upgraded from the original and it looked suspicious. The owner is a retired Sheriff. He assured me that the panel was done by an electrical contractor with a permit.



Did the retired Sheriff take his cigar out of his mouth, spit and show you his badge? and say: _"What we have here is a failure to communicate!"  "What's your name son?"_


----------



## ICE

The tile were replaced with asphalt shingles under the array.









I wonder what's draped over the tile.  The color match is remarkable.




This method is not uncommon....well except for what's draped over the tile.  It is usually done near the eave with the shingles going to the drip edge.


----------



## Norcal

What do you about trenches cut so close to the footing?


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> What do you about trenches cut so close to the footing?


Compacted dirt is the answer.  There have been cases where the trench was much deeper and I asked for slurry.


----------



## ICE

300.4(G) Insulated Fittings. Where raceways contain 4 AWG or larger insulated circuit conductors, and these conductors enter a cabinet, a box, an enclosure, or a raceway, the conductors shall be protected by an identified fitting providing a smoothly rounded insulating surface, unless the conductors are separated from the fitting or raceway by identified insulating material that is securely fastened in place.


----------



## e hilton

Sharp edge of the plastic LB does a great job of stripping insulation.  Not sure i understand why smaller sizes are exempt from sharp edge protection.  

In the first picture, the hole is to give surplus solar electrons an escape route so pressure doesn’t build up.


----------



## Mech

I think the pressure built up too high for that escape hole as evidenced by the oblong cover bulging out.


----------



## e hilton

You don’t think Mr Sparky bulged it on purpose so it wouldn’t short out the wires?  

Seriously ... he or she had to see the stripped insulation as the cover was being installed.  That person needs some serious attitude adjustment.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Sharp edge of the plastic LB does a great job of stripping insulation.  Not sure i understand why smaller sizes are exempt from sharp edge protection.
> 
> In the first picture, the hole is to give surplus solar electrons an escape route so pressure doesn’t build up.



I'm not sure that this is plastic.  I got this from another inspector so I can't verify the details.  I may get to visit the site next week.


----------



## e hilton

Looks like <gasp> you might be right, looks like metal.  But it still has nice sharp edges.


----------



## ICE

The awkward lean is bad enough.....




The roof jack fits in with the rest of it....




I was there for a service upgrade.  The company is a solar contractor.  I asked about the huge disconnect to the left ....the workman shrugged and said, "There's solar on the roof."   Well the house is large but that disconnect could handle the entire neighborhood.

There is a bus bar.







It is there because the enclosure is too high.


The guy that met me had a tad bit of attitude when he asked if there is a problem.  I told him that this work doesn't deserve an inspection.


----------



## e hilton

Maybe they got it from the Habitat Restore.  
I like the outlet under the panel ... the one with the s-bend in the too-long conduit.


----------



## ICE

The job is a service upgrade.  At the first inspection I wrote a correction to connect a GEC to the water main at the front of the house.  The service panel is located at the back of the house.  At a second inspection today I found this:




While not impossible I was curious how this was accomplished.  The worker assured me that the GEC is unbroken from the service panel to this water main.....several times.




I asked the worker to loosen the clamp and pull it back.  He did that and tried to fake a pull on the clamp.  I then took the clamp apart and pulled out the wire.


----------



## ICE

About fifteen years ago we gave up on hard wiring furnaces.  We allow a cord and plug.  That cord shall be a minimum 12awg.  Almost without fail I hear the contractors telling me that they can't find 12awg appliance cords.  They have plenty of 22' extension cords.


----------



## ICE

Viega ProPress fittings.....no solder involved.


----------



## ICE

Siding is rare here and it shows.  The plan is for plaster below and siding above a flat ledge with no flashing.


----------



## e hilton

On the right coast we would call that a water table.


----------



## e hilton

Ice ... the picture with the ground wire stuffed into the wall ... that would sure make me put that company on a list to ride hard in the future.


----------



## ICE

Since they are not electricians it is no surprise that schedule 40 conduit was used.  This is how I found it.....wide open ......worker sitting in a car out front.




The first try had the new enclosure over this hole.  The correction stated that this is not allowed.

They moved the enclosure but they don't know why.


----------



## steveray

Torch for cutting but not soldering.....Priceless....


----------



## TheCommish

At least they did not cover the old hole with the new panel


----------



## ICE

Here's the vent through the roof.  It is close to the wall which if less than 8' requires it to be 2' higher than any portion of the building that is within 10'.  It is also missing a storm collar.




Apparently I have upset the owner.  That upset has to do with CO alarms.  The house has a smoke alarm within each of four bedrooms, at each hallway, the dining, living and tv rooms, the laundry room and garage.  But there are no CO alarms.  I explained the requirement several times.  The owner expressed an interest in placing Nest alarms for the CO required adjacent to the bedrooms.  I assured him the two CO alarms is all that he needs.  He said that he likes new tech and the Nest will call his phone. I wished him well and went on my way.

Hours later the owner went to my office and met with the manager.  He complained that I didn't take enough time to educate him about CO alarms.  He pointed out the fact that he is a college level educator and well situated to judge my performance.  At best I got a D-

I wonder if the corrections had anything to do with my grade.  Sometimes the petty bullshit calls into question the belief that building inspection is an actual profession.  The servant part of public servant overshadows what we do.  Servants are dismissed with the wave of a hand.

I wrote eight corrections on a furnace that I had to crawl to reach.  I inspected it while laying on my side in a dusty attic.  I had to wait while the owner moved a lot of tool cabinets just to access the attic through a hole in the wall between the house and garage.  A hole that I ignored because it's been there since the beginning.  A hole to a catwalk with less than 30" headroom.  I ignored that too.....only because the furnace was replaced at the same location so some other inspector blessed this years ago.  I'll have to do it again....the crawl that is.

And this professor has the temerity to pitch a bitch.  When I return there may be a sh!t storm blowing in his direction.


----------



## ICE

The job is an ADU.  The garage is being converted and I took over well after the slab was placed.  The slab is not 2.5" thick.  The slab is 7" thick.


----------



## e hilton

I missed your point.  The detail is for the topping slab, not the entire slab.  The new concrete is only 2-1/2” think, the entire assembly is 7”.  None of the notes are intended to apply to “E. slab”.


----------



## ICE

The topping slab is 7" thick.


----------



## ICE

I was still in the street when I first heard the dog growl...it was more of a snarl than a growl...kinda like he was choking on a work boot....it definitely has a sour attitude.


----------



## steveray

Did they feed him the pine-sol?


----------



## ICE

The job is a water heater replacement.


----------



## e hilton

Looks like a shortage of insulation.  Or they insulated the new piping, not the existing.  Strange.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Looks like a shortage of insulation.  Or they insulated the new piping, not the existing.  Strange.


The existing pipe is tight to the wall.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> The existing pipe is tight to the wall.


Ok.  So ... does calif code require insulation on piping and a thermal jacket on the WH?  If yes, does it exempt piping against a wall?


----------



## steveray

It should exempt existing pipe, but it shouldn't allow them to burn the building down...


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Ok.  So ... does calif code require insulation on piping and a thermal jacket on the WH?  If yes, does it exempt piping against a wall?



There’s no official exception for existing pipe that’s against a wall. The water heater has internal insulation.


----------



## steveray

"New" code only applies to "new" stuff correct? 

R102.7.1 Additions, alterations or repairs. Additions,
alterations or repairs to any structure shall conform to the
requirements for a new structure without requiring the
existing structure to comply with the requirements of this
code, unless otherwise stated. Additions, alterations,
repairs and relocations shall not cause an existing structure
to become unsafe or adversely affect the performance of
the building.


----------



## Inspector Gift

Where is the Temperature Pressure Relief pipe?


----------



## conarb

Inspector Gift said:


> Where is the Temperature Pressure Relief pipe?


 I just had the exact same Rheem water heater installed, the pressure relief valve is inside that black insulation to the right of the Rheem emblem,


----------



## classicT

PRV at the arrow. No visible piping.


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> "New" code only applies to "new" stuff correct?
> 
> R102.7.1 Additions, alterations or repairs. Additions,
> alterations or repairs to any structure shall conform to the
> requirements for a new structure without requiring the
> existing structure to comply with the requirements of this
> code, unless otherwise stated. Additions, alterations,
> repairs and relocations shall not cause an existing structure
> to become unsafe or adversely affect the performance of
> the building.





Inspector Gift said:


> Where is the Temperature Pressure Relief pipe?



It is there.  It enters the wall and ends up outside.  I once had a T&P enter a wall and I couldn't find a termination.  After I left, the determined owner opened the valve.  The T&P drain pipe stopped in the wall.  Water filled the stud bay and finally removed the drywall.


I've not given it any thought before but rotating the valve is probably not a great idea.


----------



## ICE

So how about listing the four violations seen in the picture.....don't bother with code sections....I never do.....insulation is not one of them.


----------



## ICE

This T&P terminates way too high.


----------



## e hilton

And the 2x4 seismic support looks a little suspicious.


----------



## Rick18071

If I am not mistaken it looks like the vent is PVC and nothing is supporting it.


----------



## ICE

Rick18071 said:


> If I am not mistaken it looks like the vent is PVC and nothing is supporting it.


The vent is the existing transite.....and you are right about the "no support".  One down, three to go.

There's actually five violations but one would be moot by the correction of another.  One is unique to me...trust me I doubt anyone but me writes that one.  Maybe two....ya there's two in that category.  Hell's bells there might be more.


----------



## Mech

No fall protection for equipment requiring servicing within 10 ft of the roof edge?

Is a dented water heater OK to install?

No support for gas piping?

No thermal expansion tank?

No rain cap for exhaust flue?

No protective caps on rebar?

Electrical box left open / no cover?

What is the purpose of aluminum foil material on the sanitary pipes?  UV light protection?

Water heater / electrical components not listed for exterior installation?


----------



## my250r11

ICE said:


> he vent is the existing transite.


That was going to be my question. I was pretty sure it was transite from the pic. Darn heavy not to have any support, surprised the pipe collar is holding it.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> This T&P terminates way too high.




"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men like ICE, who's gonna do it? You want ICE on that wall, you need ICE on that wall!!"

Something like that!


----------



## BLangley

Pcinspector1 said:


> "Son, we live in a world that has *codes*, and those *codes *have to be guarded by men like ICE, who's gonna do it? You want ICE on that *code*, you need ICE on that *code*!!"
> 
> Something like that!



I think that is what you meant


----------



## e hilton

I did my job, and I’d do it again.  This is not a popularity contest, pilgrim.


----------



## jeffc

If they installed a vacuum relief valve, I'd call this install good


----------



## Inspector Gift

Thanks for the reply, ICE.  We see it now!    FYI:  We don't approve TPR drain piping that has a reverse slope.   The pipe must be sized properly, secured and have minimum slope to an approved drainage location.


----------



## ADAguy

ICE said:


> The topping slab is 7" thick.





Inspector Gift said:


> Thanks for the reply, ICE.  We see it now!    FYI:  We don't approve TPR drain piping that has a reverse slope.   The pipe must be sized properly, secured and have minimum slope to an approved drainage location.



Keep these coming ICE, ever teach a class? So much to see, to know, to record in limited time to do so.

Would that be a garage slab?


----------



## ICE

ADAguy said:


> Would that be a garage slab?



It is a garage slab.  The garage is being converted to a dwelling unit (ADU).  It is getting a topping slab because the garage slab slopes towards the street.  By the way, that is not a requirement and I've seen plenty that now have an ADU with a sloped floor.  We do require a sealer such as Red Guard but that's it.


----------



## ADAguy

I don't see plate separation from the adjacent outside grade indicated.


----------



## linnrg

ICE
Picture 3750 shows a potable water tank/heater with an expansion tank.  I see expansion tanks on hot water boilers but not water heaters.  Is this a California requirement?


----------



## ICE

linnrg said:


> ICE
> Picture 3750 shows a potable water tank/heater with an expansion tank.  I see expansion tanks on hot water boilers but not water heaters.  Is this a California requirement?




_608.3 Expansion Tanks, and Combination Temperature and Pressure-Relief Valves. A water system provided with a check valve, backflow preventer, or other normally closed device that prevents dissipation of building pressure back into the water main, independent of the type of water heater used, shall be provided with an approved, listed, and adequately sized expansion tank or other approved device hav- ing a similar function to control thermal expansion. Such expansion tank or other approved device shall be installed on the building side of the check valve, backflow preventer, or other device and shall be sized and installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s installation instructions. 
_
Most residential water heaters do not require an expansion tank.  Some argue that a pressure regulator acts as a check valve and therefore the expansion tank is required.  My AHJ has not made that determination.  There are a few plumbing contractors that upsell the customer and convince them that the plumbing code requires the tank.  Notice that the tank is supported only by the pipe that is connected to it.  That is a violation.  Two more to go.


----------



## ICE

Wrong teflon tape.  This tape is not listed for any use....at least it lacks any markings....  It's an awful mistake on 135' of 2" pipe.  There is some pipe dope visible here and there along with the tape used in the same coupling.


----------



## ICE

It is a slab over a basement.  About 1000 sq. ft. 12" thick.  No support except the perimeter.  The form is 1/2" plywood with posts and beams holding it up.  I asked the young man that's in charge where the design of the shoring came from....turns out that it was the crew that's tying steel.  140,000 lbs. of wet concrete will be held up by the best guess of the crew.

I asked for an engineered plan to be submitted for review.  Then a structural observation by the engineer.  I wouldn't bet on 1/2" plywood making it through the process....but who knows.


----------



## ICE

It's a cold winter day.  I am there for a roof final inspection.  The Edison drop is 1/2" above the roof.  On a hot summer day it would be on the roof.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> It is a slab over a basement.  About 1000 sq. ft. 12" thick.  No support except the perimeter.  The form is 1/2" plywood with posts and beams holding it up.  I asked the young man that's in charge where the design of the shoring came from....turns out that it was the crew that's tying steel.  140,000 lbs. of wet concrete will be held up by the best guess of the crew.
> 
> I asked for an engineered plan to be submitted for review.  Then a structural observation by the engineer.  I wouldn't bet on 1/2" plywood making it through the process....but who knows.
> 
> View attachment 6218


keep us informed on how the pour goes!


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> where the design of the shoring came from....turns out that it was the crew that's tying steel.]


Did they just come off a project in new orleans?


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> ...at least it lacks any markings....


I have not seen any tape with markings on the tape itself.  Did you see a spool?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> I have not seen any tape with markings on the tape itself.  Did you see a spool?


The spool is embossed  “PIPE TAPE” and nothing more.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> Wrong teflon tape.  This tape is not listed for any use....at least it lacks any markings....  It's an awful mistake on 135' of 2" pipe.  There is some pipe dope visible here and there along with the tape used in the same coupling.
> 
> View attachment 6217



2012IFGC, 403.9.3 Thread joint compounds. 

Shall be resistant to the action of liquefied petroleum gas or to any other chemicals.

*Seen the blue tape used and have seen the recto-seal white compound used. If it passes the pressure test, its getting approved.


----------



## linnrg

why I hate my metal roof - Oh and I wanted to show the contrast from the picture ICE put on saying it was "winter".  I did not take a picture of it by my service drop actually has about 2" of snow on it - all of our power lines are sagging under this storm.


----------



## mark handler

linnrg said:


> why I hate my metal roof - Oh and I wanted to show the contrast from the picture ICE put on saying it was "winter".  I did not take a picture of it by my service drop actually has about 2" of snow on it - all of our power lines are sagging under this storm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 6223


http://www.comfortradiant.net/TuffCableRoof.php


----------



## mtlogcabin

ICE said:


> I've not given it any thought before but rotating the valve is probably not a great idea.


look at UPC 608.5 (5) and your picture is an incorrect installation


----------



## steveray

mark handler said:


> http://www.comfortradiant.net/TuffCableRoof.php



Love that energy code...


----------



## Pcinspector1

Not UPC

Water Heater discharge
IPC504.6  (9) should be installed as to flow by gravity.

Have not seen corrugated piping used for PRV discharge.


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:


> look at UPC 608.5 (5) and your picture is an incorrect installation



I have a couple hundred pictures of water heaters...but only one with the tpr valve rotated.  The reason for that picture is the uphill drain pipe.


----------



## ICE

It has rained for about ten hours....hard at times.




So the cable and fixture are soaked.  Beyond that I am curious as to how the junction box that came with the fixture will remain accessible.


----------



## ICE

ICE said:


> Wrong teflon tape.  This tape is not listed for any use....at least it lacks any markings....  It's an awful mistake on 135' of 2" pipe.  There is some pipe dope visible here and there along with the tape used in the same coupling.
> 
> View attachment 6217



A mechanical engineer that I trust contacted IAPMO.  He knows a person there that has intimate knowledge of listing procedures.  He explained that the seal is the steel threads being in tight metal to metal contact and the pipe dope and or teflon tape is not required.  The pipe dope and teflon tape serve to lubricate the joint as it goes together.  That makes it easier to get it tighter.  I was assured that I can approve the installation "as is".


----------



## steveray

I got an email once from some NFPA CMP guy that works at Southwire I think that said it was fine if the MC got soaked as long as the final location was not a wet location.....Needless to say they put the roof on the building before they pulled the cable.....


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> Beyond that I am curious as to how the junction box that came with the fixture will remain accessible.


Can the fixture be lifted up and accessed through the hole?   Seems very awkward.


----------



## mark handler

e hilton said:


> Can the fixture be lifted up and accessed through the hole?   Seems very awkward.


I will bet the fixture is face nailed to the blocking.
Wrong fixture for that application, go back to engineer. or provide access panels at each fixture.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Agree with mh, fixture appears to be wrong for the application. 

Not sure I've seen combustible wood between the fixture housing and the light fixture finished trim piece.


----------



## mark handler

Plus How is that wall insulated?
What is the Light illuminating? 
Is there a Lighting Niche?


----------



## ADAguy

ICE said:


> It is a slab over a basement.  About 1000 sq. ft. 12" thick.  No support except the perimeter.  The form is 1/2" plywood with posts and beams holding it up.  I asked the young man that's in charge where the design of the shoring came from....turns out that it was the crew that's tying steel.  140,000 lbs. of wet concrete will be held up by the best guess of the crew.
> 
> I asked for an engineered plan to be submitted for review.  Then a structural observation by the engineer.  I wouldn't bet on 1/2" plywood making it through the process....but who knows.
> 
> View attachment 6218



Not post tensioned? A lot of steel, what is the design load?


----------



## ICE

The inspection request is for lath and insulation.  It is a contractor's permit.







It's the first time that I have been there so I took a look around.  Here is the attic space.....there is no attic access framed in.  Two are required due to a shear transfer to the roof diaphragm.




Here is the shear extension that is missing the solid blocking between the rafters.




I wrote about ten corrections and asked for the insulation to be removed so that a thorough inspection of the framing and meps can be performed.


----------



## e hilton

Looks like chicken wire, not stucco wire.  And I don’t see any flashing around the window.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Looks like chicken wire, not stucco wire.  And I don’t see any flashing around the window.


It is lath wire and the bottom window flashing should be on top of the lath paper.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> It is lath wire .


The wire i have seen has large dimples or bumps every so often to keep it pushed off the plane of the wall.  The stuff in the picture looks flat.


----------



## ICE

Self-furring lath has red stripes where the bent wire should be stapled.  This wire has that but the bend in the wire is slight and much of the staples are not in the red zone.


----------



## ICE

While we're on the topic of lath, I encountered this that same day.  It is a contractor's best effort.  Well I do hope that they always try their best.

The correction said, "The window is installed wrong."




I was at this job a few months ago when I was filling in for the inspector who's area this property was in.  The inspection was for under-slab plumbing.  They did some strange thing which I can't recall. (and I'm not going to search for a picture)  The owner called to complain and request a different inspector.  That was easy enough in that it wasn't my area.

Our areas have been rotated and now it is in my area.

This is my first time back.  The inspection request was for insulation.  I do see some insulation.  What I don't see is any signatures on the job card or permits for rough framing, plumbing or mechanical.  Rough electrical and a service upgrade were signed off....that's a problem.





I expect the contractor to enlist the owner to ask for my removal....again.  If given the opportunity I will assure the owner that I will never return.  And in passing I will remark, "By the way, you should not enter the swimming pool."


----------



## e hilton

Back to the chicken wire.  I did a little research ... what you have is 20 ga wire which is intended for one-coat stucco.  I am used to 17 ga wire for 3 coat stucco.  Looks very different.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Back to the chicken wire.  I did a little research ... what you have is 20 ga wire which is intended for one-coat stucco.  I am used to 17 ga wire for 3 coat stucco.  Looks very different.



https://thestuccoguy.com/the-different-types-of-wire-found-in-lath/


----------



## ICE

A well known plumbing contractor that specializes in re-pipe.  They love PEX.










There's a bunch of shear wall that got hacked.  1 square foot to 6 square feet.


----------



## steveray

Sad part is those holes might even be allowed in the TJI's....


----------



## Pcinspector1

Did you write them up for the DOUBLE top-plate being end butted, and not overlapping properly or missing a stud below the splice? I know you did.

Wonder how many nails were used to attach the rafter to the top plate, that's always a problem getting up there to check and I don't see a rafter notch?


----------



## linnrg

plumbers should not have sawzalls.  what a butcher job to the Joists


----------



## mtlogcabin

I have seen them use chain saws in my part of the country on glu-lams and logs


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:


> I have seen them use chain saws in my part of the country on glu-lams and logs


I have done both.  I started cutting glu-lams for a shopping center with a chainsaw but the superintendent couldn’t accept that.  

I took a piecework job sheathing two story houses with 1/2 cdx.  I didn’t cut out windows or any doors except one.  Then I went inside and zipped out the openings with a chain saw.  The contractor had a bad case of buyers remorse.  I completed two houses before he caught on.  He didn’t let me continue.  I made killer money and I’ve never seen anyone but me doing it.


----------



## ICE

An ADU is being built and an inspection was requested for the under-slab plumbing.  A driveway has been cut for a new garage.




The structure will be close to a front property line retaining wall.




When I pointed out that the retaining wall is in failure mode I was assured that there is a plan to replace it when the retaining walls for each side of the driveway go in.




The footing for the retaining wall can,t be on public property so it will be on the right side.  Engineered for 6' with a surcharge is a substantial footing.  A substantial footing requires room that is not there if a house is built before the wall.


----------



## ICE

The job is a master bathroom remodel.  The only time that I have been there was for a final inspection.  I looked at everything except the drain pipe under the counter.  As I handed the contractor a correction slip the owner asked me if the plumbing under the sink looks okay.  For a fleeting moment I experienced embarrassment.  That's not an emotion that I tolerate well. I apologized and wrote another correction.




My wife tells me that it's not fair to have me to answer to.  Somehow the screw up is always worse when I own it.  Fair or not I'm not sure about.....difficult for sure.


----------



## e hilton

I dont see a shutoff on the cold water line.


----------



## ICE

I haven't put the picture on the forum server yet ...so click on the picture and go to a Flickr picture which you can zoom and see the handle for the valve.


----------



## e hilton

Ahh.  A real small “handle” that probably requires a tool to turn.


----------



## ICE

This house is close to a million dollar property.  I wonder if they got a deal on the HVAC.


----------



## ICE

The permit states "pool remodel, add spa".  That did happen under suspicious circumstances.  I am not yet convinced that any inspections took place until I was sent for a "foundation" inspection.

The foundation turned out to be a concrete slab in the back yard surrounding the pool/spa. The only purview that I have over such flat-work has to do with the equipotential bonding grid.  It was Greek to him too.

I was handed a deputy inspection report for the doweling of the slab steel into the house footing.  First of all, we don't inspect or usually require permit for such work, and secondly, we don't require a deputy inspection of rebar dowels.  I did not mention that but I did ask how he came to the conclusion that a deputy inspection was called for.

I should mention that this is an owner builder permit and I was dealing with the owner....well he explained that the workers told him that epoxy work always requires deputy inspection.









I pointed out the fact that the retaining wall has no footing to which he replied, "That is an existing wall and was approved years ago."  I assured him that he could keep it but that I recommend a retrofit.  I then asked about the next two walls.  He said that the upper wall was existing and the middle wall was built recently.  I asked about plans, permit and inspections and he said that he had nothing.  I asked him why he built the 8' retaining wall without us ......he said that the workers told him he didn't need any of that.

He then told me that he has many pictures of the progress of the construction.  My immediate thought is ...you knew.  That's always an unspoken assumption.  Unspoken because just the presence of pictures does not prove guilt.  Then he said that the pictures have a tape measure showing width, depth, clearances etc.

Been there done that.  The managers will look at the pictures and if there are no visible corrections worth pursuing, approve the work.  So as to making assumptions, I figure that the guy has done this previously and gotten away with it to one degree or another. Perhaps he skated completely or he had to get permits after the fact.  Whichever, he did come out ahead of the game.

I am not aware of his background.  He might be a contractor, architect. engineer or porpoise.  I should put the word slippery in front of those choices.

The man has the wherewithal to do this and suffered an awful lapse in judgement.  The deeper i dig into this the more likely it will cause a lengthy delay....might be swimming by this time next year.


----------



## ICE

This overhang is at the entrance to a restaurant.  I was on the roof of another building far away.  I didn't understand what I was seeing until I got the picture into a computer.  I doubt that there was an inspection of the sign.




I could recommend improvements.


----------



## ICE

We used to require a furnace to be hard wired with a disconnect.  That was in the old days.  I suppose the Admin. tired of hearing the complaints from the HVAC contractors that installed a cord and attachment plug because the policy was changed to allow that.  Yes I know that the furnace was not Listed with a cord and plug, but hey now, so does the Admin.

Ok so we allow it, but it shall be 12 AWG conductor or larger.  I hear from contractors that such cord and plug whips are not available.  Well just because they are not on your truck doesn't mean that they can't be found.

This guy had this stuff available:


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> I doubt that there was an inspection of the sign.


How about the open knockout in the receptacle box in the foreground.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> How about the open knockout in the receptacle box in the foreground.


It depends on which end you start from.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> It depends on which end you start from.


What?


----------



## ICE

It depends on which direction you are facing.  Had I been on the other side there would be no missing KO.  Odds are  50-50 that even if I were performing an inspection I would miss the missing KO.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Does an outlet with a metal box and metal face plate have to meet the same requirements as a switch, 404.9 (b)?

I'm starting to run into this plug instead of a disconnecting switch here, I'm being told it's in case the power goes off they can plug the furnace into a portable generator by way of an extension cord.  Are you letting them install it with a duplex receptacle?

Hopefully it a 12/g or larger extension cord.


----------



## e hilton

Plugging into a generator is a good idea, had not thought of that.  But shouldn’t it have a proper faceplate?


----------



## Msradell

e hilton said:


> Plugging into a generator is a good idea, had not thought of that.  But shouldn’t it have a proper faceplate?


That's just a minor detail LOL, hopefully they just put the tape on as a temporary measure.


----------



## e hilton

Msradell said:


> That's just a minor detail LOL, hopefully they just put the tape on as a temporary measure.


Right ... it’s on the punch list and will be corrected after the check clears.


----------



## ICE

The stairs are temporary but this is supposed to be the final location of the stairs.  I asked the owner why the window is where it is.  She said that the window is per plan.  I said that it's a poor location and she said that she wanted to move it around the corner but the inspector wouldn't allow that unless the plans were redrawn along with new engineering.  The expense and time delay convinced her to grin and bear it.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Bad window placement or stair placement!

Shouldn't the OSB sheeting go over the rim as a full sheet and not be pieced in?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Bad window placement or stair placement!
> 
> Shouldn't the OSB sheeting go over the rim as a full sheet and not be pieced in?



LPT and MST48 make the transfer.


----------



## e hilton

Hope thats not an egress window.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Hope thats not an egress window.


It's not.  It will be around the corner soon.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Does an outlet with a metal box and metal face plate have to meet the same requirements as a switch, 404.9 (b)?
> 
> I'm starting to run into this plug instead of a disconnecting switch here, I'm being told it's in case the power goes off they can plug the furnace into a portable generator by way of an extension cord.  Are you letting them install it with a duplex receptacle?
> 
> Hopefully it a 12/g or larger extension cord.


The metal box does need to be grounded.  The generator and furnace story is a new excuse.  Is there a reason to disallow a duplex receptacle?


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> Is there a reason to disallow a duplex receptacle?


Yes, but maybe does not apply here.  If you have two appliances close together, and each requires a dedicated circuit, if its a duplex outlet its possible both could be plugged into the same circuit.  With two single outlets theres a better chance of correct connection.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Yes, but maybe does not apply here.  If you have two appliances close together, and each requires a dedicated circuit, if its a duplex outlet its possible both could be plugged into the same circuit.  With two single outlets theres a better chance of correct connection.


These are small closets with a furnace and  maybe a condensate pump but nothing more.


----------



## conarb

Now you are nit-picking again, the penalty for nit-picking should be loss of pension.


----------



## fatboy

I wish I knew where I could apply for this pension you continue to mention, thirty years with the same outfit......shirley I would qualify.......


----------



## e hilton

Shirley would qualify, but you don’t.


----------



## ICE

I had to tell the contractor to use the water main as an electrode.




Then I had to tell him how..


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> Then I had to tell him how..
> ]


You should go into elementary education.  Special ed.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> I had to tell the contractor to use the water main as an electrode.
> 
> View attachment 6316
> 
> 
> Then I had to tell him how..
> 
> View attachment 6317



Do you have them scratch off the paint to get a better bond?


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> These are small closets with a furnace and  maybe a condensate pump but nothing more.


----------



## Pcinspector1

They why I posted the question, if not dedicated the duplex could and most likely be used for somrthin else in the closet like a condensation pump or dehumidifier on the furnace?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Do you have them scratch off the paint to get a better bond?


Yes, all the way around ....the width of the clamp.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> They why I posted the question, if not dedicated the duplex could and most likely be used for somrthin else in the closet like a condensation pump or dehumidifier on the furnace?



I don't recall any problems with a furnace and a condensate pump plugged into a duplex receptacle.


----------



## ICE




----------



## my250r11

No window flashing & window not nailed per manu. specs.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Looks like there using the lath nail to secure the window?


----------



## ICE

my250r11 said:


> No window flashing & window not nailed per manu. specs.


I didn’t see it but the contractor says that there is a nail flange and flashing under the lath paper.  He insists that an inspector told him to do it like this..  I assured him tha the previous inspector will return for the next inspection.


----------



## ICE

There's a lot going on with this roof.  I was there for a grease hood fan.
















Now I have to track down the business that owns this.  It's small so they shouldn't miss it too much.

Update:  The next day I found the restaurant that owns this.  It is for an ice machine.  The manager called the mechanical contractor.  I told him to email pictures of a repaired/replaced unit within 24 hours or the restaurant will have to import ice.

This is an example of where a drone would come in handy.


----------



## ICE

A man called this morning.  He owns a house in my territory.  He explained that the tile roofing was removed and reinstalled after the underlay was replaced.  It was done without a permit (which is required) because the roofer told him that it would be less expensive without a permit.  He noticed that there is now one less row of tiles.  He suspects that the head lap was shortened because there were broken tiles to make up for.

The tile manufacturer recommends between 3" and 5" of head-lap and the tiles are overlapped 2.5".  He is concerned that the short lap will be a problem.  He wants to obtain a permit and he wants me to make the roofer do it over with a 3" lap.  Some people!    I explained that he knowingly broke the law ..... ended up with a shlt storm and now he wants to invite me in.  I told him to forget that idea.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE I feel it, it's like when your driving to a job site and you see a roofing contractor working with no permit. Then later part of the roof blows off and they all of a sudden need your assistance getting the roofer back, can't help you buddy. 

Half the roofers don' t follow the instructions on the shingle wrapper. Roof ridge shingles are suppose to be shingled where they can't catch the prevailing wind, (what?) small detail but very few pay attention too it. Curious if any insurance companies care?


----------



## BLangley

ICE said:


> Now I have to track down the business that owns this.  It's small so they shouldn't miss it too much.



This is amazing. I shared with fellow condo managers in the office this morning and we are cackling.

Clever, I guess, and one of the most absurd things I've seen.


----------



## e hilton

BLangley said:


> This is amazing. I shared with fellow condo managers in the office this morning and we are cackling.
> 
> Clever, I guess, and one of the most absurd things I've seen.


I’m going to offer a partial defense for that picture.  It’s admittedly a stretch.   Couple of years ago i was visiting my brother in Ark in the summer.  Hot.  Its was sunday afternoon and the ac started acting up, not cooling.  We determined the problem was the fan on the condensing unit was not coming on, so we fastened a box fan to the outside of the unit to blow some air across the coils.  That worked for the rest of the day, and he called for service on monday.  
But ... looking at the picture ... that’s not a one day solution.


----------



## ADAguy

ICE said:


> This house is close to a million dollar property.  I wonder if they got a deal on the HVAC.
> 
> View attachment 6278
> 
> 
> View attachment 6279
> 
> 
> View attachment 6280



Million dollar detail!


----------



## ADAguy

BLangley said:


> This is amazing. I shared with fellow condo managers in the office this morning and we are cackling.
> 
> Clever, I guess, and one of the most absurd things I've seen.



Also no quakes locally?


----------



## linnrg

roofs seem to be the discussion of the day


----------



## steveray

When they are both frozen it is a real problem....But the would be a good one to give a heads up to the building owner on.....


----------



## Pcinspector1

Post #3860

Why would one lambs tongue ice up and not the other? I can't say I've ever seen that!


----------



## classicT

Pcinspector1 said:


> Post #3860
> 
> Why would one lambs tongue ice up and not the other? I can't say I've ever seen that!


I think, purely speculation, that one is the primary and the other is the secondary drain. Melt has not backed up to the roof yet, so no flow through the secondary drain.

This is a great example why roof drain leaders should be run on the warm side of a wall. Also, having the primary drain run interior, through the SOG, and out the foundation below frost line and connected to on-site storm, is a much better configuration.


----------



## e hilton

I disagree on having the drain go through the slab to a direct connection.  Roof maintenance is usually a low priority item, so when the drain leader clogs with leaves and trash you won’t know until the problem gets serious.


----------



## classicT

e hilton said:


> I disagree on having the drain go through the slab to a direct connection.  Roof maintenance is usually a low priority item, so when the drain leader clogs with leaves and trash you won’t know until the problem gets serious.


And that is why the secondary drain shall discharge via a lambs tongue in an apparent location.


----------



## steveray

Also a good argument to label them.....I almost walked into my HD and then I saw the secondary drains gushing water.....Went to lowes instead....


----------



## classicT

steveray said:


> Also a good argument to label them.....I almost walked into my HD and then I saw the secondary drains gushing water.....Went to lowes instead....


Can't count how many times I've told one place or another that the flow from the secondary drain was a warning of a significant issue.

Unfortunately, a blank stare and a "we'll get right on that" answer follow.


----------



## linnrg

turns out the frozen one is actually the secondary drainage - the roof has enough icing under the snow that often the secondary becomes used and of course they did no add heat trace.

One another project the engineer intends to combine all of the roof drainage both primary and secondary into one pipe and discharge to an area well in a rear yard area.  Prior to it leaving the building they intend to have a overflow "cows tongue".  I think the design is bad what say you - sorry it is in pdf could not figure how to insert this like a picture.

BTW - I have seen lots of things stuck up into the tongue's and made inoperable because of such.


----------



## classicT

linnrg said:


> turns out the frozen one is actually the secondary drainage - the roof has enough icing under the snow that often the secondary becomes used and of course they did no add heat trace.
> 
> One another project the engineer intends to combine all of the roof drainage both primary and secondary into one pipe and discharge to an area well in a rear yard area.  Prior to it leaving the building they intend to have a overflow "cows tongue".  I think the design is bad what say you - sorry it is in pdf could not figure how to insert this like a picture.
> 
> BTW - I have seen lots of things stuck up into the tongue's and made inoperable because of such.


Ok, no clue here.... never seen a design like this.

If the drain line is below the footing, it should be below frost depth. If it is backed up due to some other clog, what happened to the screen on the inlet to the drain?

And why would one ever install an overflow inside the building that comes off the buried drain. A manhole or storm grate should be the evident point to indicate that the storm system is overfilled.


----------



## linnrg

Ty J. said:


> And that is why the secondary drain shall discharge via a lambs tongue in an apparent location.



If I could I would like that the be "an apparent location and at a location that would not cause hazards  - discharge onto any means of egress shall be prohibited".

The picture I posted is about three feet from a required exit. the building has a similar problem at a rear loading dock (and I have heard that there was a fall injury).  Luckily the maintenance staff is equipped with salt but then they get to clean up all the salt that is tracked into the building.

We are under the Uniform Plumbing code and it does allow the combining of the primary and secondary piping but requires the piping to handle double the rainfall.  I rejected the design because they did not calculate or note the rainfall.  Then I sent them the picture.

Steveray was right in #3866 to chose another building - I have seen enough collapse/structural failure due to poor roof design and water or snow loading.


----------



## Pcinspector1

linnrg said:


> The picture I posted is about three feet from a required exit. the building has a similar problem at a rear loading dock (and I have heard that there was a fall injury).



I saw the door and that potential fall hazard in the reflection of the glass! Pretty icy.


----------



## Mech

EDIT:  I am too slow at typing.  The following does not apply for UPC.

linnrg: That engineer's design misses the intent of the code.  Occupants would only know if the storm sewer backed up, not if the main roof drain system has a problem.

2015 IPC 1108.2 Separate systems required.  Secondary roof drain systems shall have the end point of discharge separate from the primary system.  Discharge shall be above grade, in a location that would normally be observed by the building occupants or maintenance personnel.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Mech said:


> Discharge shall be above grade, in a location that would *normally be observed by the building occupants or maintenance personnel.[*/QUOTE]
> 
> You got that!


----------



## ICE

400 kcmil




They think that it's fixed.


----------



## ADAguy

Workmanship lack of pride!


----------



## ICE

I was there for a final inspection of a re-roof.  The owner didn't answer the door at 9:40 am.  At 1:00pm I got a call from the office telling me that I didn't go there yet.  I went back.  The owner thanked me for coming back.  He said that he ran out to the middle of the street this morning in an effort to flag me down but I  was turning the corner at the end of the block.

He then led me to the ladder.  He said that against the chimney is the only place that a ladder can be leaned because he had new gutters installed.


----------



## e hilton

Well at least the feet of the ladder aren’t  going to kick out.


----------



## VillageInspector

If you get a running start you might be able to hop on the fourth rung


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE, Can't use that ladder to look in the other guys yard for violations! Don't do it!


----------



## ICE

I found this at a final inspection on a job that I have not been involved with.  It is a sub-panel in a residential garage.




The panel is about 60' of conductor away from the service panel.  It has the appearance of being a cable and there is no equipment ground brought with it.




Unfortunately there are other mistakes that should have been caught way before the final inspection.


----------



## e hilton

Interesting way of connecting the ground wires.  
The yellow scotchlock on the right ... is it tying together a black and a white?  Or optical illusion. I’m having a problem counting 7 whites turning the upper right corner.


----------



## mark handler

Pcinspector1 said:


> ICE, Can't use that ladder to look in the other guys yard for violations! Don't do it!


Says who? if you are on the roof legally....?


----------



## ICE

I was there to perform an inspection because Edison Co. has ceased service and will not resume service until I say OK.  The owner would not tell me why Edison cut the power.  He said that a tenant had upset Edison and all he wants me to do is email a release to Edison.  I was met by a new renter who also had no information to share.




A crude modification of the panel has thrown them a curve ball.




I was able to talk to an Edison representative.  The house had been converted to a marijuana growing operation.


----------



## ICE

This is a service upgrade from 100 amp to 200 amp.




This is the water main being utilized as an electrode.  The wire has white paint on it so obviously it is the original G.E.C.




This is the uffer.  It too is obviously the original.  Neither of the wires show up at the panel and wouldn’t pass inspection if they did.



https://flic.kr/p/2ihKN8v


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> This is a service upgrade from 100 amp to 200 amp.



Im not an electrician ... but the second break pair from the bottom on the left ... they landed a black and a white wire.  Shouldn’t the white have a strip of colored tape to show its a hot, or be a different color?  Looks like the bottom breaker has red and black.  

And you mention an existing ufer.  I thought ufers were only intended to be used where it was not possible to drive a ground rod.


----------



## Rick18071

e hilton said:


> Im not an electrician ... but the second break pair from the bottom on the left ... they landed a black and a white wire. Shouldn’t the white have a strip of colored tape to show its a hot, or be a different color? Looks like the bottom breaker has red and black.
> 
> There is no pair there, only single breakers, and there is more larger problem than that wrong.
> 
> And you mention an existing ufer. I thought ufers were only intended to be used where it was not possible to drive a ground rod.



wrong


----------



## e hilton

Rick18071 said:


> wrong


Rick ... was that “wrong” directed at me?   I looked again,sure looks like a lot of the breakers are tied together.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Im not an electrician ... but the second break pair from the bottom on the left ... they landed a black and a white wire.  Shouldn’t the white have a strip of colored tape to show its a hot, or be a different color?  Looks like the bottom breaker has red and black.
> 
> And you mention an existing ufer.  I thought ufers were only intended to be used where it was not possible to drive a ground rod.


The black and white wires are a 240 volt circuit.  The breakers are handle tied.  Wire smaller than #4 can't be re-identified unless it is part of a cable, which this is.  The white wire shall be re-identified for it's entire exposed length at the panel and anywhere else that it is accessible.

If a uffer is available it shall be utilized as a grounding electrode.  If a buried metal water pipe exists, it too shall be utilized as a grounding electrode.  When there is a buried metal water pipe serving as an electrode a supplemental electrode is required.  The supplemental electrode can be rods but a uffer can also satisfy the requirement. 

In the example for this post there is a uffer so it shall be utilized.  There is a rod which can be ignored.  However, if the rod is to be utilized it will be done in a code compliant fashion with the exception of the usual second rod.

With new construction that includes a footing there is a code that requires a uffer to be provided.  That gets missed a lot.


----------



## ICE




----------



## steveray

Bowl....Box....Whatever it takes...



ICE said:


>


----------



## ICE

The job is a pex re-pipe.  The workers were last there three days ago.  It's in a garage.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Does it draw?


----------



## classicT

ICE said:


> The job is a pex re-pipe.  The workers were last there three days ago.  It's in a garage.


Too bad you can't revoke their license. This can kill.


----------



## ICE

I shut off the gas and called the company.  There's a bedroom above and holes in the drywall.  I've seen worse but it is aggravating to know that this was ignored.  Okay, it might have fallen apart after the workers left but the fitting is wrong and some worker did that too.  I’ve told hundreds of contractors to strap the vent.  Such a simple thing ..... makes you wonder.


----------



## ICE

There is water in the trench and much of the pipe is wet.  The 180° change of direction will be eliminated along with the leak.


----------



## tmurray

Are they placing the slab on the top soil? 

It's so weird to see construction there. So different from here with our 4' frost depth.


----------



## ADAguy

No cover too?


----------



## ICE

The job is a re-roof.  I was there or the final inspection.  So I have to verify the smoke and CO alarms.




The dwelling is occupied but nobody was there.  I called the phone number on the note to tell him that I do not enter occupied buildings without an escort.   No answer....turns out to be the contractor's voice mail.


----------



## ICE

tmurray said:


> Are they placing the slab on the top soil?
> 
> It's so weird to see construction there. So different from here with our 4' frost depth.


The grass will be removed for the footing inspection. 

2' deep here is the norm.


----------



## ICE

I probably should have said no thanks.


----------



## ICE

On a service upgrade do you always require GFCI protection for the pool pump motor?


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> I probably should have said no thanks.



How's that solar array meet Calfire perimeter requirement for rake to panel clearance?


----------



## ICE

I didn’t inspect that installation.  I’ve seen more than a few carports that have an array for a roof.  Would firemen get on the roof of a burning carport?


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> On a service upgrade do you always require GFCI protection for the pool pump motor?


Can you ... or someone ... explain whats going on with the breakers in that picture.  Looks like groups of 4 ganged together.


----------



## ICE

I am more curious about the 30 amp circuits.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> Would firemen get on the roof of a burning carport?



Probably not! No reason to be on a carport roof.

Wasn't sure what type of structure it was.


----------



## mark handler

Pcinspector1 said:


> How's that solar array meet Calfire perimeter requirement for rake to panel clearance?


*We cannot see the entire roof, sometimes panels to edge are permittable*
*Cal Fire Solar Photovoltaic Installation Guideline*
https://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/education/southeast_training_network/Background on CA PV Installation Guide.pdf


----------



## Pcinspector1

Thanks Mark for the information!


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


> On a service upgrade do you always require GFCI protection for the pool pump motor?


*Pool pump motors* require *GFCI protection*. ... According to 680.22(B), so yes i would hope my inspectors would catch that.


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


> On a service upgrade do you always require GFCI protection for the pool pump motor?


*Does that Labling Meet Current Code?*


----------



## ICE

mark handler said:


> *Pool pump motors* require *GFCI protection*. ... According to 680.22(B), so yes i would hope my inspectors would catch that.



In as much as I have to write that correction every time there is a pool with a service upgrade....I'm certain that few inspectors require the GFCI.

I am not exaggerating about the "every time".


----------



## ICE

The job is a service upgrade.  This is the water main.  The contractor is an engineering firm that has a C-10 license.  For everybody not in California, a C-10 is an electrical contractor and please stay where you are.  Thanks for that.




Notice the clamp that secures the jumper to the wall.  The work is completely wrong and completely right.





Why do they think that the armor can be in the dirt?




These pictures were taken on the same day....so I had at least three service upgrades on that day.  I am just one of more than 1000 California inspectors.  Hundreds are done every day and dozens are done by professional electricians.


----------



## ICE

The plumbing company is tied in with a couple of retailers so they do plenty of water heaters.  They almost always up-sell with the expansion tank.  It's a real money maker.




The installation instructions: (http://backstop.net/pdfdocs/BackStop Instructions.pdf) state that the tank should be 18" away from the heater with the tank vertical and the pipe that it's attached to, supported.  There is a an air valve on the bottom for checking the charge.  Or as in this case, not.




This is a rarity.
This is confusing in that the reason it is rare has to do with the placement of the valve which is usually attached to the end of the hard pipe with the connector screwed to it.  The sediment trap is installed correctly and that is not so rare.  I'd say about 50/50 on the trap.


----------



## jar546

At least they have a deep sediment trap


----------



## ICE

This is typical:




Look at the vertical segment of pipe.  It seems to me that it should be secured from acting as a lever and either tightening or loosening the upstream pipe fittings.  And that's what I told them.  What is bothersome is that I had to tell them at all.  This type of error tells me that the worker had no training on gas pipe.  None. This mistake has got to be on the first page.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Post #3912 
Pic #1, No anti-siphon device on the sillcock requirement in CA? Is it possible that the valve was installed prior to code requirement?

Pic #2, Ground rod sticking up grade, preferred it be below grade at inspection but visible. If the armor wasn't touching the earth would you consider that a daisy chain grounding system and allow?

Pic #3, I think the code allows the ground wire below the sidings edge without conduit protection. Here in the mid-west, a house service waterline can't be exposed like that because of freezing.

Post 3913
Pic #2, Flue pipe needs 6-inch clearance from combustibles and flue fasteners?

Post 3915, That sediment trap makes no sense in that location, would it make sense to replace the lower elbow with a tee and install the leg at that location? You got your pipe dope for sure!


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

Post #3912
Pic #1, No anti-siphon device on the sillcock requirement in CA? Is it possible that the valve was installed prior to code requirement?
Answer 1.  Ca does require an anti siphon device.  I have never written the correction.

Pic #2, Ground rod sticking up grade, preferred it be below grade at inspection but visible. If the armor wasn't touching the earth would you consider that a daisy chain grounding system and allow?
Answer 2.  10' rod....or so they say.  6" from 8' is not worth the grief.  I don't know what you mean by daisy chain.  

Pic #3, I think the code allows the ground wire below the sidings edge without conduit protection. Here in the mid-west, a house service waterline can't be exposed like that because of freezing.
Answer 3.  That is true enough but when the conductor spans between the house and the rod it is exposed to physical damage.  Beyond that, it is a west coast thing to always have cable armor protecting the GEC.  


Post 3913
Pic #2, Flue pipe needs 6-inch clearance from combustibles and flue fasteners?
Answer post 3913.  Yes.

Post 3915, That sediment trap makes no sense in that location, would it make sense to replace the lower elbow with a tee and install the leg at that location? You got your pipe dope for sure!
Answer post 3915.  So now you expect things to make sense?  Do you have a code section for that?


----------



## mtlogcabin

ICE said:


> Do you have a code section for that?


IFGC
408.4 Sediment trap.
Where a sediment trap is not incorporated as part of the appliance, a sediment trap shall be installed downstream of the appliance shutoff valve as close to the inlet of the appliance as practical. The sediment trap shall be either a tee fitting having a capped nipple of any length installed vertically in the bottommost opening of the tee as illustrated in Figure 408.4 or other device approved as an effective sediment trap. Illuminating appliances, ranges, clothes dryers, decorative vented appliances for installation in vented fireplaces, gas fireplaces and outdoor grills need not be so equipped.

UPC has same language under 1212.9 Sediment trap


----------



## Mech

ICE said:


> Answer post 3915. So now you expect things to make sense? Do you have a code section for that?



I thought ICE wanted a code section for things to make sense.


----------



## Pcinspector1

When he retires and takes all of these photos and makes a book then he'll make some cents! $$

Name of the book: "_All I wanted was a code section for things to make sense!" or 
"I hate solar!" or 
"I hate people with bird avatars that think their funny!"_


----------



## mtlogcabin

ICE said:


> I don't know what you mean by daisy chain.



In electrical and electronic engineering a *daisy chain* is a wiring scheme in which multiple devices are wired together in sequence or in a ring,[1] similar to a garland of daisy flowers. Other than a full, single loop, systems which contain internal loops cannot be called daisy chains.

Daisy chains may be used for power, analog signals, digital data, or a combination thereof.

The term daisy chain may refer either to large scale devices connected in series, such as a series of power strips plugged into each other to form a single long line of strips, or to the wiring patterns embedded inside of devices. Other examples of devices which can be used to form daisy chains are those based on USB, FireWire, Thunderbolt and Ethernet cables.


----------



## Pcinspector1

We have been loosing the metallic water service pipe ground due to plastic pipe use and an alternative grounding system used here is TWO ground rods no closer than 6-ft with the grounding conductor wire un-broken to each ground rod fastened with a (UL) approved clamp on both rods, hence: (Daisy-chain).


----------



## Norcal

Pcinspector1 said:


> We have been loosing the metallic water service pipe ground due to plastic pipe use and an alternative grounding system used here is TWO ground rods no closer than 6-ft with the grounding conductor wire un-broken to each ground rod fastened with a* (UL) approved *clamp on both rods, hence: (Daisy-chain).



UL approved? They do not approve anything, they list it. Reminds me of some GFCI receptacles at Harbor Freight, the package said it was "UL Approved", considered it the first clue it was counterfeit merchandise.


----------



## Pcinspector1

*Thomas & Betts1/0 to 8 (Solid) AWG Compatible Single-Nut Rod Clamp
Copper Alloy, 2-13/64" OAL, CSA Certified, RoHS Compliant, UL Listed




*

Yes (UL) listed


----------



## ADAguy

ICE said:


> I was there to perform an inspection because Edison Co. has ceased service and will not resume service until I say OK.  The owner would not tell me why Edison cut the power.  He said that a tenant had upset Edison and all he wants me to do is email a release to Edison.  I was met by a new renter who also had no information to share.
> 
> View attachment 6412
> 
> 
> A crude modification of the panel has thrown them a curve ball.
> 
> View attachment 6413
> 
> 
> I was able to talk to an Edison representative.  The house had been converted to a marijuana growing operation.



How did I suspect that (smiling).


----------



## ICE

A structural observation has been performed by a registered civil engineer.  "No deficiencies noted"

Well there is one mistake.  The rafters do not have a seat cut.  So the engineer provided a fix.......with a drawing.







Sometimes I get close to becoming angry.


----------



## JPohling

ridiculous.


----------



## ICE

The job is a swimming pool.  The pool is an in-ground liner type pool.....done with the least possible expense.  When I got there I found a solid #8 wire surrounding the pool.  It is placed 36"to 48" away from the wall of the pool.  I commenced to write a correction stating that the wire shall be within 18 to 24" away.

The owners were there and they became upset.  Apparently the wire had been 18" away when another inspector made them move it to where it is now.  Within short order they were shouting at me.  I tried to leave but they were insistent that I inspect the equipment wiring.  By the time that I got done with that they were screaming at me and ordering me off the property.  I hate to say it but I think that they deserve the inspector that they want.  We will give them that.


----------



## ADAguy

GCtony said:


> Well son of a gun!   What the heck is it doing in the accessability chapter? I guess Chaper 8, finishes would make too much sense.  You know how many restrooms I've built that don't meet 1210?  Learn something new every day. Thanks!
> 
> I'm wondering if other juristictions inturpert "smooth, hard, nonabsorbent surfaces" as painted drywall?



Not allowed, not impact resistant.


----------



## steveray

NM outdoors ...Love it!....It's probably the structural foam that makes it good. Not to mention that where the wiring enters the boxes is closer than 1.25" to the edge of the stud, so there is that...


----------



## ADAguy

I "do" so love these posts. We need to publish a book of these beauties.


----------



## ICE

The job is a 1200 sq.ft. addition.  An engineer performed a structural observation and the work has no deficiencies.

This is a braced wall:




This is another braced wall:




The plan here is to install retrofit windows.




This is the second time that I have been there.  The first trip was for roof sheathing but there was no ladder to access the roof.  He assured me that the plumbing and electrical was inspected before placing the concrete.  Some of the concrete is a patch so the empty pipe on the left was an afterthought.  That pipe is a sleeve for pex that is yet to be installed.


----------



## Keystone

ICE said:


> The job is a swimming pool.  The pool is an in-ground liner type pool.....done with the least possible expense.  When I got there I found a solid #8 wire surrounding the pool.  It is placed 36"to 48" away from the wall of the pool.  I commenced to write a correction stating that the wire shall be within 18 to 24" away.
> 
> The owners were there and they became upset.  Apparently the wire had been 18" away when another inspector made them move it to where it is now.  Within short order they were shouting at me.  I tried to leave but they were insistent that I inspect the equipment wiring.  By the time that I got done with that they were screaming at me and ordering me off the property.  I hate to say it but I think that they deserve the inspector that they want.  We will give them that.


So when another inspector comes out before you and fails a job do you not have a way to view his/her previous failed comments?


----------



## Pcinspector1

I think the wall bracing has been a learning curve for most of us even engineers. The inset electrical panel is a violation of the BWP, a small hole of 7/8" for wiring would be permitted but not that inset breaker panel also the PWB appears to be lacking in the required fasteners. 

Pic #3933, is that temporary ABS plumbing? Will that vent system be raised inside the cabinet later? Nearest vent stack?


----------



## my250r11

ADAguy said:


> I "do" so love these posts. We need to publish a book of these beauties.



We can name it "Construction 101, What not to do!"


----------



## ICE

ADAguy said:


> I "do" so love these posts. We need to publish a book of these beauties.


The audience is way too small.


----------



## Inspector Gift

ICE said:


> The audience is way too small.



...and cheap.


----------



## ICE

Keystone said:


> So when another inspector comes out before you and fails a job do you not have a way to view his/her previous failed comments?


Our correction slips are a two part form so we do have a copy of written corrections....if I can find the file.  In this case I could not find the file.  There is usually a job card on site that we sign for our approvals.  

I was presented with a job card and a copy of one correction slip.  The job card was signed all the way through drywall.  The framing, electrical, plumbing and mechanical have all been approved for roughs.  That's because there is two additions....one in front and one at the rear of the dwelling.  At least that is what I think happened. I recently acquired this job due to a reorganization of our areas and some of what I am finding is lamentable.  

The contractor had his copy of just one correction slip.  On that slip were two items related to a footing inspection.  He assured me that those were the only corrections that he has received. I have no reason to doubt that.  When I look at the work I have a reason to doubt that it should have happened.


----------



## ICE

This job has required epoxy bolts and dowels.  A deputy inspector was hired and he generated a report.  The number of missing anchors far exceeds the number that were installed.









The plans call for using the existing slab because the footprint is where there was an enclosed patio cover.  That slab is 2" thick and has many cracks.




When a deputy inspector shows up at a site he/she expects to be paid.  And rightly so.  Apparently they watch the train wreck without sounding any warning.


----------



## e hilton

Shouldn’t the shorter anchor bolts have larger washers?   And the concrete looks too thin for the size of the rebar doweled into the edge.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Shouldn’t the shorter anchor bolts have larger washers?   And the concrete looks too thin for the size of the rebar doweled into the edge.



The slab on the plans is noted as existing. There is no description of the slab. An existing slab defaults to 3.5” thick.  Had the slab been 3.5” thick it would have failed due to cracks.  Worth noting is that a moisture barrier is not required. 

The shorter anchor bolts are existing, rusted, 60 year old hardware.  They do not count as anchor bolts located within a shear wall.


----------



## ICE




----------



## e hilton

Why?  And I wonder if the coiled wire will generate some kind of magnetic field.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Never seen SE coiled like that before, and one jacket looks like it's been nicked!


----------



## ICE

The conductors are feeders and I've never seen such a thing before.  It wasn't easy to do and it won't be easy to undo.  This is emblematic of the dismal state of the electrical trade in California.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Yes, feeder not SE (service entrance).


----------



## JPohling

ICE said:


> The conductors are feeders and I've never seen such a thing before.  It wasn't easy to do and it won't be easy to undo.  This is emblematic of the dismal state of the electrical trade in California.


Is there actually a code section that would prohibit that?


----------



## ICE

JPohling said:


> Is there actually a code section that would prohibit that?



_300.34 Conductor Bending Radius. The conductor shall not be bent to a radius less than 8 times the overall diameter for nonshielded conductors or 12 times the overall diameter for shielded or lead-covered conductors during or after installation. For multiconductor or multiplexed single-conductor cables having individually shielded conductors, the minimum bending radius is 12 times the diameter of the individually shielded conductors or 7 times the overall diameter, whichever is greater. _


----------



## Pcinspector1

It's not a good practice to be coiling up the wire and I can see no reason to do so.


----------



## linnrg

ICE said:


> The conductors are feeders and I've never seen such a thing before.  It wasn't easy to do and it won't be easy to undo.  This is emblematic of the dismal state of the electrical trade in California.



Wow this coiled up stuff!
wire from table 5A (examples)
#4 of various types has a diameter of 0.335 so 8x =2.68"
#2 of various types has a diameter of 0.39 so 8x =3.12"
1/0 of various types has a diameter of 0.5 so 8x =4"

So to follow up please - did you share with the utility company to not serve the property?  I wonder what would actually occur under a full load?


----------



## ICE

It won’t be energized until the coils are removed.


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for windows.  The apartments are being remodeled. The last inspection (another inspector) resulted in a correction asking that the drywall be removed so a mep inspection can be performed.  Thankfully, I was there only for windows.







I asked the contractor if the window flashing, attachment and lath was inspected before the plaster was applied and he said no.  Then he told me that it was done two years ago and it has been through two rainy seasons without any leaks.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> This is emblematic of the dismal state of the electrical trade in California.


But you know what ... that electrician tried to put some pride in his work, make it look neat.  He obviously wasn’t in a hurry to get’er done and on to the next one.   I hope you let him down easy.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> But you know what ... that electrician tried to put some pride in his work, make it look neat.  He obviously wasn’t in a hurry to get’er done and on to the next one.   I hope you let him down easy.



I didn't let him down at all.  I was there for a drywall inspection.  It was my first and last visit to that site.  Other inspectors have seen this and the rough electrical has been approved.  I am taking a month long vacation so that job should be completed before I return.....if not, well then I will have to deal with it.


----------



## Pcinspector1

A month long vacation! 

The way these kids operate now, when you get back your office will be in the basement back by the breaker panels!

Enjoy your vacation, go see jar in FL!


----------



## e hilton

Ok ... not part of Ice’s work, but i didnt want to start a new discussion.  

I take part in a tile forum.  Very knowledgeable folks when it comes to tile, not so much for other things.  One guy posted about damage from a leaking shower wall, showed a picture of the wall with sheetrock removed.  2x4 wood framing, stucco exterior.  There was a let-in 1x4 diagonal brace on the exterior side of the studs that had suffered badly, he had cut off about a 24” piece right where it crossed a stud.  He was asking if he could cut a piece to fit and slip it in place.  

I pointed out that the 1x4 needed to be continuous from top plate to sill for structural integrity, and suggested that he either chip away the stucco and replace it completely, or add a metal strap on the inside, again from top to bottom.  His response: too much trouble.


----------



## classicT

e hilton said:


> Ok ... not part of Ice’s work, but i didnt want to start a new discussion.
> 
> I take part in a tile forum.  Very knowledgeable folks when it comes to tile, not so much for other things.  One guy posted about damage from a leaking shower wall, showed a picture of the wall with sheetrock removed.  2x4 wood framing, stucco exterior.  There was a let-in 1x4 diagonal brace on the exterior side of the studs that had suffered badly, he had cut off about a 24” piece right where it crossed a stud.  He was asking if he could cut a piece to fit and slip it in place.
> 
> I pointed out that the 1x4 needed to be continuous from top plate to sill for structural integrity, and suggested that he either chip away the stucco and replace it completely, or add a metal strap on the inside, again from top to bottom.  His response: too much trouble.


Yeah.... let-in bracing is a portion of the lateral resistance for wind and seismic forces. This is a problem that should be fixed. Hopefully a permit has been pulled and someone like ICE does an inspection and points out the heartache this wannabe has caused.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Ok ... not part of Ice’s work, but i didnt want to start a new discussion.
> 
> I take part in a tile forum.  Very knowledgeable folks when it comes to tile, not so much for other things.  One guy posted about damage from a leaking shower wall, showed a picture of the wall with sheetrock removed.  2x4 wood framing, stucco exterior.  There was a let-in 1x4 diagonal brace on the exterior side of the studs that had suffered badly, he had cut off about a 24” piece right where it crossed a stud.  He was asking if he could cut a piece to fit and slip it in place.
> 
> I pointed out that the 1x4 needed to be continuous from top plate to sill for structural integrity, and suggested that he either chip away the stucco and replace it completely, or add a metal strap on the inside, again from top to bottom.  His response: too much trouble.



A rotten 24" section of 1"x4" brace is no better than a missing section of brace.  Had the brace not been removed, I would not have an issue with it.  Now that the 24 inches of brace has been removed, I would not have an issue with that either. 

This being a shower wall the rot may not be spread out but once you start removing stucco you may find rot here, there and everywhere.  There's houses out there that are being held up by the stucco.


----------



## ADAguy

ICE said:


> View attachment 6493
> 
> 
> View attachment 6494
> 
> 
> A structural observation has been performed by a registered civil engineer.  "No deficiencies noted"
> 
> Well there is one mistake.  The rafters do not have a seat cut.  So the engineer provided a fix.......with a drawing.
> 
> View attachment 6495
> 
> 
> View attachment 6496
> 
> 
> Sometimes I get close to becoming angry.



Stamp expired?


----------



## JPohling

e hilton said:


> Ok ... not part of Ice’s work, but i didnt want to start a new discussion.
> 
> I take part in a tile forum.  Very knowledgeable folks when it comes to tile, not so much for other things.  One guy posted about damage from a leaking shower wall, showed a picture of the wall with sheetrock removed.  2x4 wood framing, stucco exterior.  There was a let-in 1x4 diagonal brace on the exterior side of the studs that had suffered badly, he had cut off about a 24” piece right where it crossed a stud.  He was asking if he could cut a piece to fit and slip it in place.
> 
> I pointed out that the 1x4 needed to be continuous from top plate to sill for structural integrity, and suggested that he either chip away the stucco and replace it completely, or add a metal strap on the inside, again from top to bottom.  His response: too much trouble.


HAHA!  I am on that forum and saw that post..............crazy response.......but he is there to fix the tile issue, who needs lateral bracing


----------



## ICE

ADAguy said:


> Stamp expired?


no....but should be taken away.


----------



## linnrg

a month from now when ICE gets off his vacation this thread will pass 200 pages - what a thread this is


----------



## e hilton

linnrg said:


> a month from now when ICE get off has vacation this thread will pass 200 pages - what a thread this is


I was hoping he would get bored about the first day, and start posting things he was too busy to post while working.


----------



## ICE

Building owners should invest in private inspections.










One way to kill the bearings on a fan is to tilt it.  When the bearings go things get hot.  When that overheating fan is on a roof nobody hears the screeching. The redeeming feature of a roof mount is that passersby will see the flames.


----------



## ICE

The job is extending the rear of the house 12'.  That includes the kitchen and two bedrooms.  Permits were pulled in 2002 and we are now trying to final the job with a new permit.  I was there for the first time trying to perform a final inspection.  Several other inspectors have been there before me and have approved the framing, electrical and plumbing.

I had not gone inside yet as I started with the water heater.  I wanted to see the water heater vent so I stood on a block wall for a planter.




That's when I noticed the service drop.




The panel is above a couch in the living room.




The cover will not close and there is no deadfront.


----------



## TheCommish

and the customer accepted this


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> Building owners should invest in private inspections.


Absentee landlord/investor, and the property manager doesn’t make site visits.  Probably cancelled the preventative maintenance contracts to improve the monthly bottom line.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> The panel is above a couch in the living room.


Thats probably the original outside wall, but why is the meter facing in?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Thats probably the original outside wall, but why is the meter facing in?



The occupants do not speak English and I don't speak Chinese.  The work was done nearly twenty years ago and there has undoubtedly been several owners during the gap.  I will not be able to determine who did what, when.  My best guess is that there was bootleg construction prior to the work to extend the rear of the dwelling 12'.  

I gave the office managers the correction slips and pictures before I left for vacation.  My decision was a that a ten day notice to cut Edison was the way to go.


----------



## Norcal

How long has SCE used smart meters? If that mess has been there a while, a meter reader would have still had to read the cash register prior to the switch.


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> How long has SCE used smart meters? If that mess has been there a while, a meter reader would have still had to read the cash register prior to the switch.



The internet says:
_The first smart meter in the Edison SmartConnect program was installed in September 2009 in Downey. Installations will continue through 2012 to a total of nearly 5 million SCE residential and small-business customers in the utility's 50,000-square-mile service territory.
_
In the early years I asked an Edison supervisor why I find dangerous services that meter readers have seen many times.  He said that the meter readers have no clue.


----------



## ICE

This is a 400 amp service on a new dwelling.  There is a ground rod because the uffer was covered over and the electrician is not sure where it is.  He will find it.


----------



## TheCommish

a few more inches of dirt may have fixed (hidden) one the violations


----------



## ICE

TheCommish said:


> a few more inches of dirt may have fixed (hidden) one the violations



The owner got lucky that day.  I found many violations.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> There is a ground rod because the uffer was covered over and the electrician is not sure where it is.  He will find it.


Would you prefer to have an ufer than a ground rid?  
400a is pretty good size.  Is it multi family?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Would you prefer to have an ufer than a ground rid?
> 400a is pretty good size.  Is it multi family?


I don't have a preference.  A uffer is required.  When the foundation form-work was inspected a uffer was in place.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Post #3966,

Noticed what service drop? There isn't one!


----------



## ADAguy

ICE said:


> Building owners should invest in private inspections.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One way to kill the bearings on a fan is to tilt it.  When the bearings go things get hot.  When that overheating fan is on a roof nobody hears the screeching. The redeeming feature of a roof mount is that passersby will see the flames.



Pride of ownership gives one cause to wonder. Maybe he has exceeded his depritiation years?


----------



## mark handler

ADAguy said:


> Pride of ownership gives one cause to wonder. Maybe he has exceeded his depritiation years?


Pride of ownership? All they care about is money.


----------



## ICE

mark handler said:


> Pride of ownership? All they care about is money.



It is the tenant that installs equipment on the roof.  It would be the tenant that is on the hook for repair/replacement.  There is no excuse for an owner not being aware of what's being done to the building.  Aware means informed by a reliable source.  I am surprised that insurance companies are not requiring inspections a couple times a year.


----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


> It is the tenant that installs equipment on the roof.  It would be the tenant that is on the hook for repair/replacement.  There is no excuse for an owner not being aware of what's being done to the building.  Aware means informed by a reliable source.  I am surprised that insurance companies are not requiring inspections a couple times a year.


Once again, Tenant or Property Owners; it's all about the cash.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> It is the tenant that installs equipment on the roof.  It would be the tenant that is on the hook for repair or replacement.


It’s all negotiable.  I have been involved with retail leases where the equipment is by the landlord.


----------



## my250r11

ICE said:


> The internet says:
> _The first smart meter in the Edison SmartConnect program was installed in September 2009 in Downey. Installations will continue through 2012 to a total of nearly 5 million SCE residential and small-business customers in the utility's 50,000-square-mile service territory.
> _
> In the early years I asked an Edison supervisor why I find dangerous services that meter readers have seen many times.  He said that the meter readers have no clue. OR DON'T CARE!!


----------



## ICE

That looks suspicious.


----------



## linnrg

I told the Contractor that the picture I was taking would likely go viral - yes that is the sprinkler line!


----------



## steveray

Is there a damper in that louver?


----------



## linnrg

steveray said:


> Is there a damper in that louver?



Yes


----------



## steveray

What are the large pipes? Plastic?


----------



## e hilton

steveray said:


> What are the large pipes? Plastic?


Probably fiberglass insulated steel pipes for chilled water.


----------



## linnrg

Glycol supply and return, Chilled Water, Hot Water


----------



## steveray

What is the pipe material? Plastic that large Shirley needs a collar?


----------



## Norcal

ICE said:


> The internet says:
> _The first smart meter in the Edison SmartConnect program was installed in September 2009 in Downey. Installations will continue through 2012 to a total of nearly 5 million SCE residential and small-business customers in the utility's 50,000-square-mile service territory.
> _
> In the early years I asked an Edison supervisor why I find dangerous services that meter readers have seen many times.  He said that the meter readers have no clue.



Amazing how much equipment with NEMA type 1 enclosures I see installed outdoors & has been there for years. 

Then there is this  submersible pump 





The property has a shop w/ a 200A 480Y/277V service, that NEMA 1 disco is 480V 3Ø, the shop also has a bootleg MIL unit, and is the only place I have ever seen with 277V lighting in a residence, since removed (the lights), my County for years did not require inspections on AG until it was determined by the County attorney to be contrary to State law, other then that shop, the rest of the property is residential.


----------



## linnrg

WELL they did not pass the final inspection.  I called the electrician and he said "dang invisible ink"


----------



## ICE




----------



## e hilton

What are “existing”?


----------



## TheCommish

same as I do not know


----------



## jar546

e hilton said:


> What are “existing”?



Existing is for the circuit that goes to the watchamacallit near that thing.  Why don't you know that?


----------



## ICE

The correction said, “Not ready for inspection.”  In all honesty, it wouldn’t be difficult to fool me.......who among us verifies that all of the circuits are labeled correctly? ..... Allow me to restate that... not counting  Jeff, who among us......


----------



## fatboy

ICE said:


> The correction said, “Not ready for inspection.”  In all honesty, it wouldn’t be difficult to fool me.......who among us verifies that all of the circuits are labeled correctly? ..... Allow me to restate that... not counting Jeff, who among us......



Not me..........


----------



## ICE

Since I am working from home the pictures have dried up.  Then the guy across the street started making up for the loss.  He is a retired doctor....his wife is too.  You would think that a pair of doctors would have better sense than this.





So I have watched him build a scaffold over the course of a week.




Here he is on the job.




The entire thing is put together with screws.  Four screws are all that holds the scaffold against the building.




Today he is busy taking the rotten overhang apart.  Depending on what type of doctor he was, there might be structural repairs or just a face lift.  My wife is upset because I won't stop him.  It's not my nature to interfere.  I probably shouldn't have said, "This is how killer yard sales are born."  She didn't see the humor in that.


----------



## ICE

The only 2"x material is the posts and the ladder.  He has a circular saw but by the sound of it the blade may be mounted backwards.




The rope gets tied around his waist....with just enough slack to leave him hanging below the platform.  I bet that he's climbed that ladder 100 times or more.




This is why the only wood that's exposed on my house is the doors.  It took a long time to find a house with that requirement.....no wood trim.....not even fascia.


----------



## fatboy

Darwin's theory could apply..........


----------



## ICE

fatboy said:


> Darwin's theory could apply..........



He used to wear scrubs so I don't think he's a Doctor of Sociology.


----------



## e hilton

Wow, nice house.  They don’t mind your mobile home across the street?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Wow, nice house.  They don’t mind your mobile home across the street?


Ours is a double wide.


----------



## TheCommish

probably has an over roof


----------



## Norcal

e hilton said:


> Wow, nice house.  They don’t mind your mobile home across the street?



You can call them manufactured homes, mobile homes, or factory built homes, but a trailer is still a trailer.


----------



## ICE

Now he has rain to deal with.


----------



## ICE

Here's a picture of our house....it's the one with the firetruck in the driveway.  Within minutes there was a firetruck in every driveway.  Green ones, red ones and yellow too.....they came from as far away as San Diego.

From where I took the picture is as far as we went.  Once the firemen had the hoses strung to the back yard we went back into the house.  I should have sent my wife to the shelter because it was damned near impossible to get any sleep with her there.  But I was going to need a driver in the morning.

I was having a tough night before the fire.  Halfway into a gallon of magnesium citrate there was pounding on the door.  A policeman said that we had to evacuate.  I said, "Well sir you've caught me at a bad time."

The next morning as we returned from the hospital that same policeman stopped us a mile from home and said that we couldn't go any further.  I had to walk home and my wife spent the next three days at a shelter.  I couldn't even get a pizza delivered and she got Happy Meals.  One of the things I love about her is that she seldom gets upset about stuff happening. Oh she was scared alright, really scared, dare I say scared shltless when, in the long run, I was the shltless one.


----------



## jar546

ICE said:


> The correction said, “Not ready for inspection.”  In all honesty, it wouldn’t be difficult to fool me.......who among us verifies that all of the circuits are labeled correctly? ..... Allow me to restate that... not counting  Jeff, who among us......



Oh I don't but I come close in dwelling units.....


----------



## Inspector Gift

ICE said:


> Here's a picture of our house....it's the one with the firetruck in the driveway.  Within minutes there was a firetruck in every driveway.  Green ones, red ones and yellow too.....they came from as far away as San Diego.
> 
> From where I took the picture is as far as we went.  Once the firemen had the hoses strung to the back yard we went back into the house.  I should have sent my wife to the shelter because it was damned near impossible to get any sleep with her there.  But I was going to need a driver in the morning.
> 
> I was having a tough night before the fire.  Halfway into a gallon of magnesium citrate there was pounding on the door.  A policeman said that we had to evacuate.  I said, "Well sir you've caught me at a bad time."
> 
> The next morning as we returned from the hospital that same policeman stopped us a mile from home and said that we couldn't go any further.  I had to walk home and my wife spent the next three days at a shelter.  I couldn't even get a pizza delivered and she got Happy Meals.  One of the things I love about her is that she seldom gets upset about stuff happening. Oh she was scared alright, really scared, dare I say scared shltless when, in the long run, I was the shltless one.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 6582


Great story!   And thanks for posting the pics of your neighbor's repair job!  I always enjoy looking at your pics.


----------



## jeffc

If your neighbor survives his rot repair project, perhaps he could help out with this trenching project? Looks less dangerous than a fall while repairing rot.


----------



## classicT

jeffc said:


> If your neighbor survives his rot repair project, perhaps he could help out with this trenching project? Looks less dangerous than a fall while repairing rot.


Hey...where it all began.


----------



## tmurray

I did a trenching safety course a couple years ago and showed that picture to the trainer. He asked what the hole at the bottom was for. 

He said he had seen people do some stupid things before, but that was next level stupid.


----------



## e hilton

Its only 7 steps down on the ladder ... 4 ft?   Maybe the hole is the escape route.   Looks like pretty cohesive soil too.  Still a dumb move.


----------



## classicT

e hilton said:


> Its only 7 steps down on the ladder ... 4 ft?   Maybe the hole is the escape route.   Looks like pretty cohesive soil too.  Still a dumb move.


Per OSHA requirements, ladder rungs have to be spaced 10-14-inches.

So it's more like 7-feet.


----------



## ICE

_"What are we looking for ICE?

Unsecured ladder, questionable flashing material (looks like foil tape?), the what appears to be excessive cantilever at the right wall, windows that are not vertically aligned (bad design, but not a violation if headers account for load transfer), the shear-walls with straps for force transfer around openings (missing at corner window's outside edge)?

Inquisitive minds wanna know what you saw." _

Ty J.,
This is not a job that I am involved with.  An inspector found this during a virtual inspection.  The coil strap may or may not be on the plans but the strap didn't extend far enough at the ends.  The strap is either under the window nail flange or over the flange either of which is not a good idea.   Generally when strap is called out on plans, there is strap under the window opening as well as the top.... but that' s generally and I've seen it both ways.

The window flashing at the side and top is a self-adhering flashing that is not made for this application.  Additionally, the side flashing should be under the window flange.  Oh and the stuff is too narrow as well.

The belly band is, how should I say this in a not unkind manner, ridiculous.  And the color!  What's this place going to look like?

The windows seem to lineup okay.  Now if any are bedroom egress they are, like the flashing, too narrow.

I notice a lack of eave vents.

The fascia is nailed with sinkers.

And the ladder?  They're just storing the ladder.

I can't zoom in on the picture ....oh wait a minute, I bet I can with the iPad.  Ya but the iPad is upstairs.......yes it zooms on the iPad but gets blurry fast....but I found eave vents.

What do you think about the lighting outlets?


----------



## classicT

ICE said:


>


What are we looking for ICE?

Unsecured ladder, questionable flashing material (looks like foil tape?), the what appears to be excessive cantilever at the right wall, windows that are not vertically aligned (bad design, but not a violation if headers account for load transfer), the shear-walls with straps for force transfer around openings (missing at corner window's outside edge)?

Inquisitive minds wanna know what you saw.


----------



## e hilton

Ty J. said:


> Per OSHA requirements, ladder rungs have to be spaced 10-14-inches.
> 
> So it's more like 7-feet.


Yeah, after i posted that I realized my 6 ft step ladder has 6 rungs.


----------



## ICE

jeffc said:


> If your neighbor survives his rot repair project, perhaps he could help out with this trenching project? Looks less dangerous than a fall while repairing rot.


Nine years ago.


----------



## linnrg

got to love this - from a local middle school


----------



## fatboy

linnrg said:


> got to love this - from a local middle school
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 6595


Glad I understand where the hands are..........today's youth are screwed..........


----------



## ICE

The sewer is ABS.  The gas pipe is polypropylene.  The water pipe is unknown by me.  This is the correrction that I found.


----------



## e hilton

18 ga trace wire seems very small.


----------



## Pcinspector1

603.2 *Separation of water service and building sewer.*
Water service pipe and the building sewer shall be separated by not less than 5 feet (1524 mm) of undisturbed or compacted earth.

Exceptions:

1.    The required separation distance shall not apply where the bottom of the water service pipe within 5 feet (1524 mm) of the sewer is not less than *12 inches* (305 mm) above the top of the highest point of the sewer and the pipe materials conform to Table 702.3.


G2415.17.3 (404.17.3) Tracer.
A *yellow insulated copper tracer wire* *or other approved conductor shall be installed adjacent to underground nonmetallic piping*. Access shall be provided to the tracer wire or the tracer wire shall terminate above ground at each end of the nonmetallic piping. The tracer wire size shall not be less than *18 AWG* and the insulation type shall be suitable for direct burial.

*Green* copperhead approved here.


----------



## ICE

There is no separation required between ABS sewer and any water pipe of any material.  There is no separation required between gas pipe and sewer or water pipes.  DWV is inside the building.

If clay sewer were involved the code is not "18” below water pipe."


----------



## Pcinspector1

Gas line is required to be separated from electrical


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Gas line is required to be separated from electrical


The utility company might have a requirement but I don’t.


----------



## steveray

Gas separated from electric....Just like in your furnace....


----------



## ICE

From a recent virtual inspection done by another inspector.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Looks a tad bit full.

Let me count the wires, over thirty but no yokes in that box, can't determine the size of the JB from a virtual inspection  

Guessing 13 (romex) x 3 wires = 39 Some may be  12g and some 14g

I'll guess the box as a 4.25 x 4.25 but can't determine the depth of the box?


----------



## TheCommish

the hole in the wall is big enough for the correct size  J box


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Looks a tad bit full.
> 
> Let me count the wires, over thirty but no yokes in that box, can't determine the size of the JB from a virtual inspection
> 
> Guessing 13 (romex) x 3 wires = 39 Some may be  12g and some 14g
> 
> I'll guess the box as a 4.25 x 4.25 but can't determine the depth of the box?


Guessing 17 romex.


----------



## ICE




----------



## linnrg

no conduit in walls?????  Man we been making mistakes for years - oh my oh my!


----------



## e hilton

linnrg said:


> no conduit in walls?????  Man we been making mistakes for years - oh my oh my!


Electricians in chicago are going to go ballistic.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


>


Is This Code? What section is this called out in.


----------



## classicT

ICE said:


>


So any info on who wrote this? Colleague?


----------



## JPohling

I have a feeling he was trying to write "connections" and wrote "conduits"  maybe.......


----------



## ICE

JPohling said:


> I have a feeling he was trying to write "connections" and wrote "conduits"  maybe.......


Nope, it's meant just like it reads.


----------



## linnrg

ICE said:


> Nope, it's meant just like it reads.



too bad you can't put his name and phone number on here so we could all call him and tell him he is a dumba#@.  And you wonder why some of the clients do not like inspectors.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> This person has 30 ICC certifications.


Did he buy them from Walmart?  Or angies list?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Agree with JP!

Should probably re-write the report and switch the "be" and the "not", then it would make since?


----------



## JPohling

Pcinspector1 said:


> Agree with JP!
> 
> Should probably re-write the report and switch the "be" and the "not", then it would make since?


Actually your word switch makes more sense.


----------



## linnrg

oh the good maintenance that is out there.  And please tell me what you think it is.  I am thinking 220V 20 amp


----------



## e hilton

It looks like a smiley face that sucked a lemon.  And collects bread wrapper tags.


----------



## Mech

That smiley face may have lost an eye.


----------



## ADAguy

ICE said:


> There is no separation required between ABS sewer and any water pipe of any material.  There is no separation required between gas pipe and sewer or water pipes.  DWV is inside the building.
> 
> If clay sewer were involved the code is not "18” below water pipe."



Good practice, no? to prevent potential cross connections by leaking sewer pipes.


----------



## ICE

ADAguy said:


> Good practice, no? to prevent potential cross connections by leaking sewer pipes.


Not at all.  Just unnecessary digging.  I wondered about the code if it is clay sewer pipe.  The clay would have to fail and also the water pipe.  Then there would have to be a loss of pressure in the water pipe.


----------



## ICE

There is a furnace in the closet.  It was powered by an 16awg power cord.  I wrote a correction to install a 12awg power cord.  Before you start asking questions about that, it's just something that we do.







The furnace was plugged into the receptacle and is now hard wired.  The old looking romex at the top of the outlet is a question.....was it there all along?


----------



## ICE

I didn't want to hijack the thread about return air ...so I put it here.  Reading the thread led me to look at the code and I found this:

_311.3 (6) exception (3)(c)
Return-air inlets shall not be located within 10 feet (3048 mm) from an appliance firebox or draft diverter in the same enclosed room or confined space._

Here is a furnace in a closet with a return air grill located directly under the door to the closet.  We have always treated this as a violation (less than 10' away from a firebox) unless the door to the closet has a gasket that seals it from the hallway.




Here you can see the gasket material.




I have always been skeptical of this code.  In reading it I see that it says, "firebox or draft diverter in the same enclosed room or confined space" and that is not the case once the door is shut.

I am looking for opinions.


----------



## TheCommish

There are no townships in Massachusetts where I work and  I think  the may be a spelling error


----------



## ICE

The job is an ADU.  The owner wanted the ADU to have a separate electric service, hence the meter socket.  I asked them what the plan is and I was told that they will bring a service entrance conduit in at the top of the meter enclosure...well actually they didn't call it a service entrance conduit.

Then they said that the feeder from the ADU that is currently emerging under the service enclosure will be brought in at the bottom of the meter enclosure.  Well they didn't actually call it a feeder.

This was not the first time that we discussed this.  A week earlier they told me about the desire for a separate service; I asked them what the plan was.  They pointed to the cover below the existing meter and said that they would place a meter there.  I was assured that they are good at metal fabrication.  At that time I told the general contractor to hire a real electrician

I performed several inspections in person over three months ago for under-slab plumbing.  That was akin to dragging a treble hook through a urethra.  That one surprised even me.  As it turns out, the plumber was also the electrician...was



Speaking of plumbing.....the water heater is ready for inspection.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> The job is an ADU.   As it turns out, the plumber was also the electrician...was
> 
> Speaking of plumbing.....the water heater is ready for inspection.


Plumbing ... electrical ... it’s all pipes.  
On the extra long gas line ... i have heard that if you make the gas go through a spiral it increases the btu content.  That’s what they say ...


----------



## Mech

I guess the spiral will act as a nice sediment trap too.


----------



## ICE

They requested a footing inspection.  I did not make this up.


----------



## steveray

Wood comes from "vegetation" right? They are just cutting out the middle man....Jeez....


----------



## e hilton

I’d say thats about 5 foots wide by 18 foots long ... close enough?


----------



## TheCommish

There are not townships in Massachusetts where I work and spelling?


----------



## ICE

The RVI Guide Re-roof that I created advises the roofer that a chimney wider than 30" requires a saddle or cricket.

This is the picture that was presented at the sheathing inspection.





This is the picture at the final inspection.





This side of the chimney is visible from the roof and only from the roof.


----------



## steveray

Handsome....Is the wire lath there to slow the water down?


----------



## Paul Sweet

I hope the cricket shingles aren't lapping over the main roof shingles.  It might be tough to keep this watertight unless there's an ice & water shield underlayment.


----------



## ICE

Paul Sweet said:


> I hope the cricket shingles aren't lapping over the main roof shingles.  It might be tough to keep this watertight unless there's an ice & water shield underlayment.


Ya it's bucking water.  The pitch is low and the cricket is small.


----------



## jeffc

Hopefully the caulking at the reglet/wall flashing will not leak until you have completed your inspection. The metal expands and contracts at a different rate than the stone so the caulking is just going to pull away soon.


----------



## ICE

jeffc said:


> Hopefully the caulking at the reglet/wall flashing will not leak until you have completed your inspection. The metal expands and contracts at a different rate than the stone so the caulking is just going to pull away soon.


They went to a lot of trouble to do it wrong.


----------



## ICE

Patio cover roof meets a wall.  Considering that the window is at the second story, a roof six inches lower would have been okay.  At what stage of the construction did they realize that this will not work?  I'm guessing ledger.  The cover is 40' long and window is near one end.  The people that put up the ledger had to know....and did it anyway.  They weren't starting over with thirty feet of ledger already screwed to the wall.




Three skylights.




It's a mess created by a licensed contractor.


----------



## ICE

Do you check the hole diameter at anchor bolts?  This anchor bolt had a 3"x3" plate washer installed and a hole as a witness next to it.  I have always restricted the diameter to 11/16" for a 5/8" bolt.  That's the way I was taught oh so long ago.  Back then it was a 9/16" hole for a 1/2" bolt.  Looking for that in the code book ....well I'm not much good with a code book and I can't find it.  So if you know where it is please point it out.  If it is not in the code book, I would like to know that too.....but I'm pretty sure that it is....at least in mine.


----------



## ICE

I find this on almost every plan.  I enforce it on new houses.  Not so much on room additions.  How about you guys and gals.  Is it an affront to say gals?  Are there any looking in?


----------



## jar546

Someone does not know what flashing is, do they?  Those installations are an embarrassment.


----------



## jeffc

As for anchor bolt hole sizing, the National Design Standard for wood construction gives you 1/32" to 1/16" per side for the hole size. The Simpson hardware book at one time made a reference to the NDS standard. I max I have seen is a 2" hole for 1/2" anchor bolts. I should have taken his drill and drill bits to prevent future occurrences.


----------



## linnrg




----------



## ICE

Detail 7 is called out.


This is detail 7.





The detail does not fit well with the location of a slab to footing interface.  I mentioned that to the contractor and he wanted to know why I thought that.  I explained that the usual detail for that location shows a thickened slab however the code would not require a thickened slab.  I surmised that the designer might have thought he was getting a thickened slab by virtue of where he placed the detail call out on the foundation plan.

Then I got a revised plan:





The revision is unique in several respects and they did this as a result of the revision:


----------



## ICE

I am not sure why but the gas water heater is sitting in the garage with no vent.  Been that way for months.  I noticed that the occupants each had a nosebleed.





Alrighty then, I lied about the nosebleeds.


----------



## steveray

Handsome!


----------



## Mech

Why are there two cold water lines on the water heater?  Or did the contractor run out of red PEX?


----------



## linnrg

More wrong than just the vent. surprised you could get a picture of a water heater in seismically active California without straps,  T&P valve and pipe.  Heck of a platform!


----------



## Pcinspector1

Hielo,
Make sure you check the gas line for an approved tag, that looks like an homemade CSST gas line that's missing the bonding.

Where's the floor drain?


----------



## ICE

linnrg said:


> More wrong than just the vent. surprised you could get a picture of a water heater in seismically active California without straps,  T&P valve and pipe.  Heck of a platform!


As wrong as this, it’s the “platform” that stands out.


----------



## ICE

The owner took out a permit.  The lady that lives there sent me a few pictures of the work that was done by a friend of theirs.  Right away I knew that the friend does mostly commercial work.  I have not seen much of the work yet but I expect it to be tidy....and well...commercial not residential.


----------



## ICE

The job is a 400 amp residential service upgrade.  The contractor knows that we require a bonding jumper between the cold, hot and gas pipes at the water heater....so he did this:


----------



## ICE

Looks ugly but it's through an overhang and there's no getting the shingles apart.






They called for the final and left this undone.  I suppose they plan on making a mess and thought I would turn a blind eye.


----------



## ICE

Pool contractor placed an aluminum pole for a mesh fence too close to the water.  About 20 times.  So he installed lugs and a solid #8 wire.  The contractor was told to consult with the inspector prior to doing anything.  He didn't do that.  I haven't seen a closeup view, but I suspect that the lugs are not listed for outdoor use and most likely do not mate up with the pole.  Oh well, it's not my job to inspect so I won't be dealing with the contractor.


----------



## ICE

You know how some jobs seem familiar.......    I think I might have seen this before.





This is on the same panel:


----------



## ICE

Enjoying the world of virtual inspections.  The job is solar and a service upgrade.  They send good pictures.

 I was curious about the individual wires making it into the panel and the three KO plugs caught my attention.


----------



## ICE

The plan is to convert this panel from a main panel to a sub-panel, hence the conduit with the fat wire to the 100 amp back-fed breakers.  The contractor can't seem to understand why the inspector turned it down.  His lament that it is existing and therefor off limits speaks volumes about the contractor.


----------



## steveray

Is it the rotten enclosure or that the backfed breaker isn't fastened or the re-identified green wire?


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> Is it the rotten enclosure or that the backfed breaker isn't fastened or the re-identified green wire?


There were corrections.  Even with no corrections this contractor had no problem trying to use a rotten enclosure.


----------



## ICE

This so looks wrong yet they do it anyway.  





This is another bad habit.  The attachment plug has been removed from the cord for the condensate pump.  The cord enters the furnace via a cable connector and gets power from inside the furnace.





Of course I got the, "We have never been written up for this before."  The company is large....large enough that I have written the same corrections dozens of times.  Many dozens.


----------



## Norcal

ICE said:


> The plan is to convert this panel from a main panel to a sub-panel, hence the conduit with the fat wire to the 100 amp back-fed breakers.  The contractor can't seem to understand why the inspector turned it down.  His lament that it is existing and therefor off limits speaks volumes about the contractor.
> 
> View attachment 6813



How can a panel with a permanently bonded neutral be converted to a subpanel? That is a question to be asked, plus the corrosion means a no go to me.


----------



## Norcal

ICE said:


> The owner took out a permit.  The lady that lives there sent me a few pictures of the work that was done by a friend of theirs.  Right away I knew that the friend does mostly commercial work.  I have not seen much of the work yet but I expect it to be tidy....and well...commercial not residential.
> 
> View attachment 6755



The concrete looks new, plus it looks like they poured it directly against the siding. The EMT looks much better then the armored ground normally used.


----------



## e hilton

_This so looks wrong yet they do it anyway._
Is it actually wrong, or does it just look wrong?  

Condensate pump ... do you require a shut down float switch in case the pump fails?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> _This so looks wrong yet they do it anyway._
> Is it actually wrong, or does it just look wrong?
> 
> Condensate pump ... do you require a shut down float switch in case the pump fails?



It’s single wall vent stuffed into double wall vent and secured with screws.

The secondary condensate drain has a float switch.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> The secondary condensate drain has a float switch.


The float switch will turn on the pump when condensate fill the reservoir.  My question was ... if the pump fails is there anything to shut down the system?  Or maybe I’m not clear on your answer.


----------



## mtlogcabin

2018 IMC
307.3 Condensate pumps.
Condensate pumps located in uninhabitable spaces, such as attics and crawl spaces, *shall be connected to the appliance or equipment served such that when the pump fails, the appliance or equipment will be prevented from operating. *Pumps shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturers’ instructions.


----------



## ICE

This is how screws cut through insulation.


----------



## ICE

Had they measured to the correct point there would be just under or over 60".  But I don't measure from the wall so they lose six inches.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> Had they measured to the correct point there would be just under or over 60".  But I don't measure from the wall so they lose six inches.


“Yes ma’am we have the lowest prices in town for solar systems, but the change orders are going to be whoppers”.


----------



## Rick18071

Isn't the meter box considered an outlet?

2014 NEC 680.22 (D) other outlets shall not be less then 10' from the inside walls of the pool


----------



## steveray

I think that would be a stretch for outlet...


----------



## ICE

Rick18071 said:


> Isn't the meter box considered an outlet?
> 
> 2014 NEC 680.22 (D) other outlets shall not be less then 10' from the inside walls of the pool



An outlet is where electricity will be “utilized” such as a receptacle or a light.  The service has switching devices.


----------



## ICE

For those that want the details....here's one worth noting:  When measuring to the pool, it is not to the edge of the coping.  The measurement it taken from the inside wall of the pool.

_(C) Switching Devices. Switching devices shall be located at least (5 ft) horizontally from the *inside walls of a pool *unless separated from the pool by a solid fence, wall, or other permanent barrier. Alternatively, a switch that is listed as being acceptable for use within (5 ft) shall be permitted. _


----------



## Rick18071

ICE said:


> An outlet is where electricity will be “utilized” such as a receptacle or a light.  The service has switching devices.



Just wondering if the meter socket isn't much different than a light bulb socket. Doesn't a electrical meter use electricity to work?


----------



## fatboy

Rick18071 said:


> Just wondering if the meter socket isn't much different than a light bulb socket. Doesn't a electrical meter use electricity to work?



I think that is a stretch........


----------



## ICE

Rick18071 said:


> Just wondering if the meter socket isn't much different than a light bulb socket. Doesn't a electrical meter use electricity to work?



_Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment. 
_
Utilization equipment uses power to perform work.  Does a meter do that?

Actually there’s a definition that I’ll post tomorrow. .


----------



## ICE




----------



## e hilton

Not enough paint cleaned off.  Why would you put the wire under the clamp ... it’s deforming the pipe.


----------



## steveray

e hilton said:


> Not enough paint cleaned off.  Why would you put the wire under the clamp ... it’s deforming the pipe.



Double bonding...Only the best electricians do it....


----------



## Pcinspector1

I've seen that done once before and questioned if it met the code, my thought was, "It's bonded!"

As far as this install, I question if enough paint has been removed, is it safe, is there enough protection from damage, is it before the first fitting and I would still question if it meets the manufactures installation requirements which I believe it does not.


----------



## ICE

I frequently encounter an electrician that got ahead of himself with the stucco lath.  Many times the patchwork is done.  The reason for removing lath for an inspection is exemplified in this case.  Since I an performing virtual inspections I rely on pictures.  The contractors think that their work is going to pass inspection so they take pictures and continue with the work.




The clamps are not listed for "as many as you can get in" and they are supposed to be grabbing the cable "snugly".  Snugly might not be in your code.




The picture is blurry but you can see that the cable is against the screw.  I have seen the screw chew through insulation and short. Note that one screw is bottomed out and the other is not due to the cable being pinched





This next picture puts it over the top.


----------



## ICE

The CSST is connected to  T that is on the end of iron pipe.  The bonding jumper is connected to the T.  I tried to explain why this is wrong to the plumber and the general contractor.  I really did try but they just weren't having it.  Then the plumber raised his voice in anger.


----------



## e hilton

Can you explain to a non-plumber why thats wrong.  And when he raised his voice ... was the inspection over?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Can you explain to a non-plumber why thats wrong.  And when he raised his voice ... was the inspection over?




This is the picture that was provided:




Notice that the bonding jumper follows the CSST and is close to the CSST.  CSST is supposed to be kept away from metal...especially grounded metal.  Initially, I didn't notice that there appears to be two improperly placed pipe clamps.  Improperly placed on a not round pipe but a faceted surface of a tee.  Why there are two leads of solid #6 wire was never explained.

The inspection was over before the plumber arrived.  The job is a whole house remodel with a relocated kitchen, flush beams and a different floor plan.  When I called the general contractor to initiate the ZOOM virtual inspection he said all the trade people were there except the plumber.  I said OH well  here we go.  I sent him the ZOOM request and he did not respond.  I waited a while with nothing and then called him.  He said that he hadn't received the email.  I said look again and in two minutes I am off to another inspection.  Miracles happen and all of a sudden we were connected with a ZOOM inspection.

Just as we were getting done the plumber shows up.  His part of the inspection was just corrections from a previous inspection.  But he wants to do his inspection again.  The CSST bonding was installed because of a correction.  When I brought that up at the first inspection the plumber all but called me an idiot...."I have never been given that correction before."  "You can't make stuff up just to screw with me."  "Where is that in the code?"

All of my corrections a delivered via email so I get detailed with it.  I told him to place the bonding jumper on the hard pipe before the introduction of the CSST.  I guess I wasn't detailed enough.  It's like a Colorado Electrical Inspector....you have to do it for them.

When the plumber lost his cool this time, I didn't hang around for the insults.


----------



## Norcal

Gimme black iron pipe, I loath CSST.  But then don't care for PEX either, nobody has given me a satisfactory answer about rodents & PEX. But both of those materials require less skill & labor to install so that what is used, but will have to acknowledge in a repipe where the existing plumbing has failed PEX is much easier.


----------



## fatboy

"It's like a Colorado Electrical Inspector....you have to do it for them."

Not in my jurisdiction.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Some *black* jacketed CSST does not require bonding, like Wardflex, there's probably other black jacked CSST that also does not require bonding. I don't get to worried until I see the yellow jacket CSST with no bonding.

What CSST gas pipe is this?

Also I've been watching for CSST being bent more than 90°, refer to manufactures install directions on what ever brand pipe is being used.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Some *black* jacketed CSST does not require bonding, like Wardflex, there's probably other black jacked CSST that also does not require bonding. I don't get to worried until I see the yellow jacket CSST with no bonding.
> 
> What CSST gas pipe is this?
> 
> Also I've been watching for CSST being bent more than 90°, refer to manufactures install directions on what ever brand pipe is being used.


I have heard that and I found it in the manufactures literature.  I do not recall which company and I paid no attention to the claim.  The code requires the bonding jumper.

Close to 100% of the CSST installed is not bonded.  I have never encountered CSST that was bonded and I always hear, “Nobody has ever made us do that.”


----------



## Rick18071

We are not allowed to inspect anything to do with propane gas in PA. The installers inspect themselves per law. Had a yellow line put in my house a few years ago. No bonding was done.



Norcal said:


> Gimme black iron pipe, I loath CSST.  But then don't care for PEX either, nobody has given me a satisfactory answer about rodents & PEX. But both of those materials require less skill & labor to install so that what is used, but will have to acknowledge in a repipe where the existing plumbing has failed PEX is much easier.



Do you feel the same with romex vs. conduit?


----------



## steveray

"Black CSST" still has to be bonded, it is just allowed to use the EGC for the equipment it is connected to and requires no additional bonding just like steel pipe. Per install instructions. NFPA 54 is catching up with this now too...


----------



## Pcinspector1

WARDFlex:
Piping systems incorporating *black coated* WARDFlex® MAX CSST have no additional bonding requirements imposed by the manufacturer. WARDFlex® MAX may be bonded in accordance with the National Electrical Code NFPA 70 Article 250.104 in the same manner as rigid metallic piping systems. In the event that additional bonding of black coated WARDFlex® MAX is required by local code, the same requirements stated in this section for the direct bonding of yellow coated WARDFlex® shall be followed. It is the responsibility of the trained installer to verify all local code compliance.

2018 IFGC 310.3 Arc-resistant CSST


----------



## e hilton

I had to look it up on their website.  Turns out the black coating is conductive.  

And ... if you go to wardmfg.com and click on wardflex, they have a nice video about quality control testing.


----------



## ICE

I am never bothered about telling them remove the dirt to expose the pipe.  The foam wrap is different.  Especially when they did a nice job of it.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> I had to look it up on their website.  Turns out the black coating is conductive.
> 
> And ... if you go to wardmfg.com and click on wardflex, they have a nice video about quality control testing.



I went to the installation instructions and found the grounding on page 44.  The yellow jacketed tubing has a definite requirement from the manufacturer whereas the black jacketed tubing does not.  However it goes on to say that the code will require bonding.  

"Piping systems incorporating black coated WARDFlex® MAX CSST have no additional bonding requirements imposed by the manufacturer."

https://www.wardmfg.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/DesignInstallationGuide_January2019FINAL.pdf

CSST is a real boon for the plumbers...well except for 47 pages of instruction compared to iron pipe and it's....well it's iron pipe and that's about all you need to know.


----------



## linnrg

in the first picture was that the old outside cleanout?  Also look at the straps holding the pipe to the form - that would be a good tug on those pipes when removing the forms. Do you look in the top of the 10' pipe to see if there are any leaks because there is no good place to set up a ladder there.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Torpedo level, I've seen some plumbers use them.

What's that in the lower right corner of the first pic? Is that some cast iron pipe? Abandoned in place? 

Testing with water or air?


----------



## ICE

This cabinet was mounted over a hole in the stucco wall with a cluster of Romex through the back.  Another inspector wrote the correction disallowing that and I was given the followup inspection.  The guy butchered the bottom of the cabinet and tossed in some extra sheetmetal.  The white blob is caulk.











This is a sub-panel.  The circuit breakers hide the ground bus.  I wrote a correction that disallows hiding the ground bus.  I asked for a copy of the label that is on the door which should list what breakers are allowed.  The contractor and the other inspector think that I am being punitive. Altogether there were 13 corrections.  So what do you think about the obscured ground bus?  Am I over the top?


----------



## tmurray

The next person to work on this panel certainly won't love them for it.


----------



## steveray

Do they need to be accessible? Or readily accessible?


----------



## e hilton

Not an inspector, however i would: accept the square “washer” on the bottom, ask for a same-gauge sheet metal patch in place of the blob, hold firm onthe hidden ground bus.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> The foam wrap is different.  Especially when they did a nice job of it.


Should the foam wrap be on the entire length of pipe, or just where it touches concrete.   If you say where it touches, then there are a lot of places where the pipe is exposed and will either need dirt backfill, or foam.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Should the foam wrap be on the entire length of pipe, or just where it touches concrete.   If you say where it touches, then there are a lot of places where the pipe is exposed and will either need dirt backfill, or foam.


The foam is meant to protect the pipe from concrete.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Not an inspector, however i would: accept the square “washer” on the bottom, ask for a same-gauge sheet metal patch in place of the blob, hold firm onthe hidden ground bus.


The only problem I will have in making the contractor replace the panel is the supervisor that will override me.


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> Do they need to be accessible? Or readily accessible?



I am not sure but I do know that I can't inspect what I can't see.

This was done by a general contractor that fancies himself as an electrician.  He gets plenty of work in our area. Most of the work is done his crew and subcontractors.  The job that this is on is a large addition.  He screws up the electrical every time. 

The core issue with this is the general lack of competent inspection that abounds here in southern California.  In other words, he gets away with it most everywhere so there is no incentive to improve. 

An example of the shoddy work is the feeder he reused from the main to a new sub-panel.  It is aluminum and too small for 100 amps and there is no equipment ground with the conductors.  He spugged caulk to fill one missing ko and didn't bother to fill three more.


----------



## Pcinspector1

SQ-D panel:
If the bus was added, do you have to verify that the paint was scratched off under the bus before it is attached? If original to the panel are the breakers the correct type. Breakers have to be removed to get to the buss does not seam right. Either way something's a miss IMO.

Eaton panel:
I would be okay with the square washer if tight, not sure what else they can do with out using a plug and using another punch out if available on the panel.

Not okay with caulk filling the hole, would like to see metal used to cover the hole.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Torpedo level, I've seen some plumbers use them.
> 
> What's that in the lower right corner of the first pic? Is that some cast iron pipe? Abandoned in place?
> 
> Testing with water or air?



I didn't notice the extra pipe until you brought it up.  It is not legal to test ABS with air.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> It is aluminum and too small for 100 amps and there is no equipment ground with the conductors. .


Are you making him replace it?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Are you making him replace it?


Maybe.  I haven't seen the outside yet.  The smaller sub-panel might go as well.  I understand that some members think that the hack at the bottom is ok as long as there is sheet-metal. That sheet metal is not bonded to the can.  What about the person that paid the contractor thousands of dollars for a new, damage free, installation?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> SQ-D panel:
> If the bus was added, do you have to verify that the paint was scratched off under the bus before it is attached?



If a bus is added it shall be a bus with a part# showing on the label.  There should be no need to remove paint if the correct bus is installed as bonding has been addressed...most likely with two screws.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> If a bus is added it shall be a bus with a part# showing on the label. There should be no need to remove paint if the correct bus is installed as bonding has been addressed...most likely with two screws.



As per 250.12 of the 2011 NEC, “Nonconductive coatings (such as paint, lacquer, and enamel) on equipment to be grounded shall be removed from threads and other contact surfaces to ensure good electrical continuity *or be connected by means of fittings designed so as to make such removal unnecessary.*

Two screws, I'm okay with that.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> What about the person that paid the contractor thousands of dollars for a new, damage free, installation?


Stay focused mr ice.  You are there to check code, not quality.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Stay focused mr ice.  You are there to check code, not quality.


One drives the other.  I work for the owner.

As it turns out, the service panel will not be replaced.  Since the aluminum wire feeder is too small the contractor will install a larger conduit out the bottom for a new feeder to power the sub-panel.  That will result in removing sufficient ko to get around the hack job he created.

The owner will not know what I did for him....the contractor will.  The next job this contractor does might have an inspector with a different priority. 

You know, he is not telling a lie when he says that he doesn't get written up elsewhere.  I tend to think that these guys that screw up so completely didn't save up a bunch of crap work just for me.  No not at all.  The thing is that they mostly get away with it.

So yes, I would have made him replace the damaged panel.  They can get away with sloppy work in too many places. 

And just to be clear, there's always a code section to back up what I do..  Dare I say almost always. Many of the guys that do the crap work don't know the difference.  I've tested that theory.


----------



## steveray

If they don't know well enough to not do what they do, they definitely don't know even where to find what is actually required...


----------



## my250r11

ICE said:


> What about the person that paid the contractor thousands of dollars for a new, damage free, installation?



I have gotten some flack when I make roofers replace damaged shingles. Customer paid for new undamaged shingles. Sometimes they damage the new ones more than the old ones. The BO will back me on this to, so they get replaced.


----------



## ICE

Everyday I am asked to provide an email to the office manager and his assistant with the result of an inspection.  I usually do that.  Here is an example:

_"Contact was made.  Respondent stated that he received a call from B/S yesterday and was informed that an email would be sent with instructions for the inspection.  He stated that he is not in receipt of said email.  I explained, in a soft measured tone, that I was not the B/S person that called him previously.  I offered to send the instructional material at that time if he would please provide me with his email address.  Respondent became angry and retorted with a loud voice, "I did that yesterday."  

Knowing that some people's lives are, shall we say, complicated, I immediately offered to wait for the arrival of the original, missing, email from B/S.  Respondent agreed and I bid him farewell."_


----------



## Pcinspector1

Yesterday I was told by the home builder to "Quit playing project manager and stick to the code!" "What's it to you that there are metal screws missing on the garage eyebrow!" and "Don't leave the inspection report in the house anymore, everybody can see what's not done!"

Buyer beware!


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Yesterday I was told by the home builder to "Quit planing project manager and stick to the code!", "what's it to you that there are metal screws missing on the garage eyebrow!" and "Don't leave the inspection report in the house anymore, everybody can see whats not done!"
> 
> Buyer beware!


What is the garage eyebrow?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Roof eyebrow


----------



## steveray

Hell of an eyebrow...Looks like Mike Dukakis....Nice car hole...


----------



## Pcinspector1

steveray,

That's an internet photo but it describes the design feature used, and the slang used in the field. The eyebrow feature here had screws along the front edge and they neglected to finish out attaching the metal on one end with the same screws. So I put it on the final inspection report.  Guess design
features are exempt from code requirements and I was called out for being a project manager.

Looks more like a uni-brow doesn't it?


----------



## e hilton

Ohhh ... that is ... lacking drive-up appeal.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Do you all think ICE will be able to navigate this new forum?

It's over 4,150 posts.  Hate to lose the kitty cat!   I mean Tiger!


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Do you all think ICE will be able to navigate this new forum?
> 
> It's over 4,150 posts.  Hate to lose the kitty cat! I mean Tiger!


I'm not an old dog....cat..I'm an old cat.

The counter shows 171,000 views when in fact it is 347,000.  188,000 dropped to 12,000 during an update.  Had that not happened this would be a record.


----------



## ICE

The job is a pex re-pipe.  A correction was written to insulate the hot pipe and seal all of the wall top plate penetrations.  Pictures were sent and there is a hole that was not sealed.  The contractor stated that the hole was where an existing pipe was removed.




At the water main 3M fire caulk was used to seal around the pipe.  The smaller hole on the left is too small for a pipe.  A correction had been written regarding a grounding electrode and the contractor has no idea what was in the hole.


----------



## Rick18071

I'm not allowed to say an inspection failed. Usually there is something right about it so I need to
say the inspection has  "partial passed".   Like a drywall inspection where they used the right
drywall and the right screws, but the wrong screw spacing.


----------



## steveray

We have to tell them they failed:

(Add) 110.6.1 Notification of inspection results. Notification as to passage or failure, in whole
or in part, of any required inspection shall be made in writing by the building official or his duly
authorized representative and shall be left at the job site or delivered to the permit holder. It shall
be the duty of the permit holder to ascertain the results of required inspections.

No snowflake results here...If they use 1/2" instead of 5/8" is that a partial pass, they just have to add another 1/8" to it?...LOL


----------



## ICE

Rick18071 said:


> I'm not allowed to say an inspection failed. Usually there is something right about it so I need to say the inspection has  "partial passed". Like a drywall inspection where they used the right drywall and the right screws but the wrong screw spacing.



I used to send the email that said that %%%%^^&&&&n failed inspection on *-*-2020.  The office manager thought that was too harsh.  I changed it to #$%^&*() was inspected on ##-&&-2020
with the following result:  and then I give them the corrections.   Sometimes I want to say,
"Really?..... You're kidding me right?"  ....."What were you thinking?"


----------



## TheCommish

they never fail there are deficienticies in code compliance


----------



## ICE

TheCommish said:


> they never fail there are deficienticies in code compliance


And everybody gets a trophy.


----------



## north star

*$ ~ $ ~ $*

The world, and especially the U.S., is replete with "everybody
getting a trophy"........No one fails at anything anymore......It
is not culturally correct !    

*$ ~ $ ~ $*


----------



## tmurray

People are so afraid of failure, but not willing to put in the work for success...


----------



## linnrg

I was able to create my own inspection form.  On it I have three choices:
1) Code Compliant
2) Corrections essential as explained below
3) do not conceal until re-inspected


----------



## e hilton

So for item 2, they can make corrections and proceed with covering?


----------



## linnrg

When writing below I usually note what can and can not continue


----------



## ICE

I wrote a correction regarding a lack of support for the rafters.  I pointed out the detail that is part of the plans.




They did this instead:


----------



## Pcinspector1

There's something a miss here!

Has anyone seen the gun nailer or my hammer?


----------



## e hilton

The detail on the plans isn’t clear.  Reading the notes, they show a “2x laid flat” etc that appears to keep the rafter from sliding down the roof.  Then there is something, the hatching (single diagonal line) would indicate to me that it’s a 1x board, and it bridges across the supporting rafters to spread the load of the superimposed rafters.  But it’s not clearly called out.  
What they did doesn’t look right.


----------



## MtnArch

The single diagonal line would indicate a block between the rafters.  Not sure I understand why the 2x continuous is shown where it is - I don't think the fill rafters would slide that way ...


----------



## steveray

Hope it is SoCal roof framing....That will fall down with some snow.....


----------



## e hilton

MtnArch said:


> The single diagonal line would indicate a block between the rafters.


I’ll buy that.  Not a very well annotated detail.  I wonder if there is a plan view detail somewhere else on the page.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> I’ll buy that.  Not a very well annotated detail.  I wonder if there is a plan view detail somewhere else on the page.


Nope...what you see is all there is.  Any framer would not need a detail.  After giving him a correction and explaining *his* detail to *him* he misunderstood.


----------



## ICE

Not so green of them.


----------



## ICE

So that's what that big round hole is for.




We have inspectors that will not allow an old meter enclosure to be converted to a junction box.  I am usually ok with it if the meter blank is metal.  This job has more issues than this, starting with the number of current carrying conductors in the raceway.


----------



## linnrg

#4171
2 kitchen circuits with handle tie? and 30 amp too?


----------



## ICE

The job is a 200 amp service panel upgrade.  I called the contractor at 8:10 am to give him a heads up about the virtual inspection.  He tells me that he had Edison pull the power at 8:00 am and he wants me there at 1:30 pm.  He says that Edison will be there at 2:00pm and will not energize unless I approve that.

So I provide the contractor with a link to BOX where there is a file waiting for his pictures.  After reviewing the pictures I will do a Face Time inspection.  I told him to send a text as soon as the pictures are there because BOX does not notify me.

I also told him to "git er done" because if there are corrections I will not release the power.  That upset him.  He explained that he has two Ca. Certified journeyman electricians that came from San Francisco and they never get corrections.  I was surprised that the journeymen electricians left San Francisco.

At 1:44 PM i got the text and it said, "I uploaded the pictures and I need the release by 2:00 pm."  I called him in order to do a face time inspection and I asked him why there were no pictures of the panel.  He said that there are no breakers to show because they haven't gotten that far yet.




I mentioned that there was no picture of any grounding to which he said that there is an existing uffer with a silid #8.  We were of to the races.  Me telling his workmen what was wrong and the contractor complaining to my office and Edison. Edison agreed to hang out until 4:00.  But the corrections were still flowing like the uffer:




Well I discovered that they do things differently in San Francisco.  Appaerntly they don't even provide GFCI protection for swimming pool equipment,,,,,and they don't mind putting the customer up for the night in a hotel bummer huh.  Had I been the customer the Hilton room service bill would have broken the bank


----------



## ICE

linnrg said:


> #4171
> 2 kitchen circuits with handle tie? and 30 amp too?


And the always popular SPY YARD. They sent pictures and when I called them for the virtual inspection there was no answer so I have questions and no answers.


----------



## e hilton

What is a “spy yard”.   And the 4 pole breaker?  Only the neutral conductor has colored tape ... is that ok?   
the close-up of the cables in the clamps ... too many per clamp?  And looks like the clamp screw is biting into the jacket.  But the clamps are not snug.


----------



## ICE

4 pole is the main.  Only the neutral is ever identified. Spy yard is an English is a second language thing.  That explains the bedliv outlets too.


----------



## Norcal

e hilton said:


> What is a “spy yard”.   And the 4 pole breaker?  Only the neutral conductor has colored tape ... is that ok?
> the close-up of the cables in the clamps ... too many per clamp?  And looks like the clamp screw is biting into the jacket.  But the clamps are not snug.



That is not a 4 pole breaker, it's 2 pole that uses 4 pole spaces. ITE Imperial Corp., a predecessor of the company Siemens bought was the first to introduce those mains way back in the 1970's, Cutler-Hammer, & GE, followed in doing so.


----------



## ICE

Probably forty times.


----------



## e hilton

Is that supposed to be an anchor bolt?   Don’t see threads.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Is that supposed to be an anchor bolt?   Don’t see threads.


Yes they are.


----------



## ICE

There shouldn’t be daylight showing.


----------



## e hilton

Very nice clear picture.  Is that what you are seeing on your video inspections?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Very nice clear picture.  Is that what you are seeing on your video inspections?


Some are good, some are great, most are middling and then there’s the worthless.


----------



## Norcal

No daylight showing, or taping 6 AWG or smaller green, or white, either, has to be 4 AWG or larger to be kosher.


----------



## ICE

That is daylight.  The claim is that the re-identified white wire is a #4 and the others are # 1.  I have asked for pictures of the markings.


----------



## e hilton

Whats the deal about daylight?


----------



## classicT

e hilton said:


> Whats the deal about daylight?


If daylight can get through, so can water.


----------



## steveray

It doesn't rain in SoCal....


----------



## ICE

About a size 9.


----------



## linnrg

Darn  if you ever see size 11.5 you will have answered my question!


----------



## Pcinspector1

I was told you can walk on them when they submitted plans without access to some roof skylights? hummm

ICE, you'll have to advise us, should we let the solar installers do visual inspections, just got a sheet telling me how to set that up!  

Not gonna do it...not gonna do it!


----------



## ICE

No panel manufacturer allows walking on the panels.  I have witnessed it hundreds of times.  When solar was in it's infancy a shaded or damaged panel would kill the entire array.  Now there is technology that would isolate a shaded or damaged panel.  The array will still generate power but at a lessor amount.  So if walking on the panels causes damage, it is less likely to be found out.

I have been performing virtual solar inspections for six months.


----------



## Kearney.200

steveray said:


> It doesn't rain in SoCal....


Is'n there a song about that ?


----------



## TheCommish

can you hum a few bars to see if remember the tune?


----------



## ICE

This is what it looks like when conductors are fed through the stucco wall from a surface mount panel.







This is what it looks like if the didn't restore the wall.


----------



## ICE

The setup prior to the solar contractor messing with it had two circuit breakers that powered a swimming pool.  Being at the end of the busbar, they had to be relocated.  
	

		
			
		

		
	




The problem that I have with it is there is no pair of breakers labeled swimming pool.  The solar breaker took the place of the swimming pool breakers and the guy that handled the virtual inspection is clueless.  The correction states that GFCI protection is required.

This how I wrote that correction:
The previous circuit labeling had two breaker slots identified as "Swimming" "Pool".  Those slots are at the bottom of the busbar.  The solar breakers have been placed at the bottom and there is no pair of breakers labeled swimming pool.  Please explain this and label the circuits correctly.  
Furthermore, I must assume that the missing swimming pool breakers were GFCI.  And therefore will be replaced with GFCI.  I could also assume that the previous breakers were not GFCI.  In that case, because they were removed from the busbar they shall not be reused and GFCI protection is required.

I bet that I hear about this one.


----------



## Mech

What does it mean when the red warning sticker in the above photo states the solar electric circuit breaker is backfired?  Is that the same as back fed?  Or does that mean the installation was not done properly?


----------



## ICE

Good catch Mech.  I didn't notice that.


----------



## fatboy




----------



## ICE

I wrote a correction stating that a sleeve crimp is not allowed.  The contractor stated that he used a c-tap.  I said that this absolutely looks like a crimp sleeve. He explained that it is one half of a c-tap.  When asked why he did that he said that it's just the way he has always done it.





This is another thing that I've never seen done before.  That solid copper wire is a GEC to an auxiliary grounding electrode.  Rather than run it across the roof and down the side of the house he took it into the attic and out to the rod.


----------



## TheCommish

That is a leak ready to happen. 
Second is that roof attachment listed/designed to be used that way?


----------



## ICE

TheCommish said:


> That is a leak ready to happen.
> Second is that roof attachment listed/designed to be used that way?


The penetration is slathered with mastic.

The roof attachment is a Pegasus L-foot with a Pegasus comp roof flashing.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Mr. ICE, 
I have a solar project that's using that same *Pegasus* *comp roof flashing* and the documents the solar company provided me does not show the flashing under a shingle like plumbing pipe flashing's. No word of mastic being used. Didn't see a manufactures installation recommendation either way.

Are you seeing the flashing both ways and okay with it?


----------



## ICE

Pegasus Solar - A Better Day on the Job
					






					www.pegasussolar.com
				




There is only one way.


----------



## Paul Sweet

Looks slick.  My main concern is whether the uplift capacity is adequate if it doesn't fall over a rafter or truss.


----------



## ICE

Paul Sweet said:


> Looks slick.  My main concern is whether the uplift capacity is adequate if it doesn't fall over a rafter or truss.


They might find out if they missed a framing member and then again, maybe not.  If a few miss it shouldn't be that big of a deal.  At least around here. Go where the wind howls and it becomes an issue.


----------



## ICE

I get a kick out of it when they insulate the T&P drain pipe....all the way to the pan.  And then there's the use of flex connectors.  No permits....I was there for jumper from cold to hot to gas as part of a service upgrade.










There’s a STOP sign on the water heater that says “Do not return this water heater to the place of purchase.”. I guess it happened one too many times.


----------



## e hilton

Are you allowed to comment on items other than the jumper?  And can the yellow flex pipe be inside the wall?


----------



## ICE

As to what I am not allowed to do....I never know until I do it.....and my memory is not great.

The yellow flex can’t be in the wall or in the furnace.


----------



## tmurray

Assuming the T & P pipe is copper, insulating it is not that bad of an idea. Heat is not just lost when water flows through the pipe. The copper pipe is essentially a heat sink because it is such a good conductor.

Now, why they did not insulate the inlet and outlet piping...That's a good question...


----------



## e hilton

tmurray said:


> Now, why they did not insulate the inlet and outlet piping...


Because home depot only sells straight pieces of pipe insulation.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Are you allowed to comment on items other than the jumper?



A while back I had a final inspection that was associated with an ADU. It was so completely messed up that I wrote this correction:

_Your company has a history of unusual and egregious errors with the electrical trade. You strain the abilities of inspectors.  Do the electrical work over with different personnel. Understand that I stopped the inspection of the electrical because it is so completely wrong that it shall be done over._

The contractor complained.  An office assistant manager became upset...I want to say very upset but I don't use the word very.  He said that I was completely unprofessional...had no right to "insult" the electrician.

The job consisted of a rewire of the dwelling, an ADU, a main service panel and three sub-panels.  Much of the job was done with white wire.....because the electrician is a commercial guy and he had wire left over from another job.  This was about the tenth messed up job that I had with this contractor.

I was banned from inspecting their work.  This happened on June 10, 2020 and the job has still not passed a final inspection.  I am pleased as punch that I won't have to put up with the crap work anymore.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> _Your company has a history of unusual and egregious errors with the electrical trade. You strain the abilities of inspectors.  Do the electrical work over with different personnel. Understand that I stopped the inspection of the electrical because it is so completely wrong that it shall be done over._


Speaking from painful personal experience, usually adding just one more sentence to an email to make a point, that was probably not the best statement to write.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Speaking from painful personal experience, usually adding just one more sentence to an email to make a point, that was probably not the best statement to write.


Sometimes I just can't help myself.....and trust me on this... what I wrote was mild by comparison ....the difference was that it was in writing. 

The same contractor had a a different ADU inspected by a different inspector today.  No hand rail on the stairs, which is the same correction that I gave them three months ago and there is a 1R panel on the exterior of the building.  The best statement to make would be to the State Contractors License Board.


----------



## ICE

Apparently it is legal but this just seems wrong.


----------



## ICE

This is serving an attached garage that was converted to an ADU.  I was asked to perform a final inspection about a month ago.  When I asked to see the circuit breakers for the ADU that I assumed were in the main panel I was shown a pair of 50 amp breakers that were old and labeled "garage".  Today was another attempt at a final inspection.  Apparently there has been a sub-panel installed somewhere that serves the ADU. 

I asked for a load calculation and a new sub-panel.   ... for starters.


----------



## TheCommish

The wire on the main lugs look a bit small to the non  electrician


----------



## e hilton

I don’t know what I’m talking about ... I see 6 whites going out the top, 6 whites on the bus above the breakers, and 9 blacks on the bottom of the breakers.  3 blacks on the 15 amp.


----------



## Norcal

With the spray texture all over the panel interior, any inspector is well within their rights to require replacement of it,110.11, not the only thing wrong either.


----------



## e hilton

Norcal ... doesn’t the spray texture help as insulation where they forgot the plastic bushings?


----------



## Norcal

e hilton said:


> Norcal ... doesn’t the spray texture help as insulation where they forgot the plastic bushings?


----------



## ICE




----------



## mark handler

ICE said:


> View attachment 6967


LOOKS LIKE WE ARE DEALING WITH THE SAME CONTRACTORS....


----------



## ICE

The void under the flashing must be filled.  If not, debris can collect which would hold water.  Besides that, the flashing installation instructions require that.

Something for California inspectors to remember is that state law took away our right to ask for more than one inspection.  That came with a few rules for the contractor.  One of which is that they are required to provide sufficient pictures or a video of the installation as it comes together.  Now had we still been able to perform an in-progress inspection the voids under the flashing would not be there. Now all of the modules have to come off.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Why can't you just shove a piece of shingle up in there with some "Oh Henry plastic roof cement?" and call it good. 

Have to take all the modules off?


----------



## e hilton

Pcinspector1 said:


> Why can't you just shove a piece of shingle up in there with some "Oh Henry plastic roof cement?" and call it good.
> 
> Have to take all the modules off?


i suspect that it’s an array with more than one row of panels, so flashing in the middle of the array that can’t be reached without removing the panels.


----------



## ICE

I ask for specific pictures in order to perform a virtual inspection.  With a furnace in a closet I ask to see the combustion air openings.  You would think that they would at least clean the screens.


----------



## TheCommish

We change the furnace.  Not my job to clean the vents.


----------



## ICE

Bonding a fence to the swimming pool equipotential bonding grid.


----------



## ICE

View attachment 6978


----------



## ICE




----------



## Pcinspector1

#4232 photo. Is there a violation? Is the chicken wire going the correct way?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> #4232 photo. Is there a violation? Is the chicken wire going the correct way?


yes and yes


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> yes and yes


You talk too much.


----------



## Pcinspector1

A man of many words and photos!


----------



## e hilton

Point being ... has anyone found the violation?


----------



## ICE

There is a weep screed and it should be 2" above the concrete.  The lath is self furring but they managed to overcome that feature with staples at 6" on center.


----------



## ICE

This is a correction written during a water heater inspection.  Does a water heater have a tail piece?


----------



## ICE

This correction was written during an inspection of a room addition.  There is no mechanical or electrical plan and the inspector has told them to submit plan revisions to the plan check engineer.  Asking for installation instructions for mounting mini-splits?


----------



## steveray

Doesn't it have to be seismic in Cali?...They say you are tough.....I wouldn't be too critical of the word tailpiece, plans for residential? or commercial job?


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> Doesn't it have to be seismic in Cali?...They say you are tough.....I wouldn't be too critical of the word tailpiece, plans for residential? or commercial job?


When an inspector doesn't know the terminology it is no surprise that the correction states that the T&P + the smitty pan
shall have a drain that terminates no more than 6" above grade.

The compressor is a skinny little mini-split at a residence.  There was no mechanical plan to revise, and who the Heck would ask
for a plan check review of the anchorage to a plastic platform sitting in the yard.


----------



## steveray

Skipped right over the pan drain....LOL


----------



## Pcinspector1

Ahhhh... the weep screed, "Does your weep screed weep?"

Thanks for the lesson, ICE!


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> Skipped right over the pan drain....LOL


And the T&P drain pipe?     6" or less?


----------



## steveray

IPC T&P termination

10. Terminate not more than 6 inches (152 mm) above
and not less than two times the discharge pipe diameter
above the floor or flood level rim of the waste
receptor.

Pan drain

504.7.2 Pan drain termination. The pan drain shall
extend full size and terminate over a suitably located indirect
waste receptor or floor drain or extend to the exterior
of the building and terminate not less than 6 inches (152
mm) and not more than 24 inches


----------



## ICE

608.5 Discharge Piping. The discharge piping serving a temperature relief valve, pressure relief valve, or combination of both shall have no valves, obstructions, or means of isolation and be provided with the following:

(3)  Discharge pipe shall discharge independently by gravity through an air gap into the drainage system or outside of the building with the end of the pipe not exceeding 2 feet (610 mm) and not less than 6 inches (152 mm) above the ground and pointing downwards.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE, Post 4,248, any back story on this? Need more information before I scrutinize the caption.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> ICE, Post 4,248, any back story on this? Need more information before I scrutinize the caption.


The intent is to provide power to an ADU.


----------



## steveray

ICE said:


> The intent is to provide power to an ADU.


So.....SER underground......


----------



## Pcinspector1

So.. what column and method from table 300.5 would address this application?

Ridged nonmetallic raceway below a sidewalk? 

Service to ADU size?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> So.. what column and method from table 300.5 would address this application?
> 
> Ridged nonmetallic raceway below a sidewalk?
> 
> Service to ADU size?


Column 3 ....under minimum 4" thick concrete slab....so it is deep enough.....however it is NMC that is not allowed in a wet location......the conduit is schedule 40 and shall be schedule 80 where it is above ground...the conduit is too small in diameter for the eventual conductors.....the pull box is too small and shall be inset into the wall.


----------



## ICE

This was installed on the main dwelling to support a detached adu.  The contractor said that the Zinsco was there all along with a meter next to it on the left.  He said that he can't reach the breakers.

The panel is at the detached ADU.

This was a virtual inspection.  He kept repeating that inspector &*$%#@ approved what we see.  In as much as this was my first exposure to this mess I told him that I will not have anything to do with this job.


----------



## steveray

Sooooooo.....no grounding whatsoever....? Or am I missing it...


----------



## Norcal

All I see is a big cluster____  that Zinsco looks like it was cut off the bottom of a semi-flush underground panel, removing the underground pull box, metering section, and don't ever see a way to use them (of any make) as anything other then service equipment because of the permanently bonded neutral usually found in them, in addition the site mod/hack of the Zinsco panel.


----------



## Pcinspector1

200amp panel also has a #10 and a #12 neutral wire under the same lug and three grounding wires under the same lug, both would need to be verified that the panel allows that, should be a sticker in the panel.

Walk this way!.. walk this way!....


----------



## my250r11

NOT AN ELECTRICAL INSPECTOR BUT LEARN A LITTLE THRU OSMOSIS. DON'T SEE ANY FASTENERS IN THE THE PROVIDE SPOTS AND THE PANEL CAN'T BE RESESSSED IN THE THE WALL.


----------



## ICE

We are told by supervisors that when the scope of work is a service panel upgrade and nothing more than that.....it means exactly that and we are not allowed to ask about anything else....such as a sub-panel.  In keeping with their wishes I always ask/inspect sub-panels.  This is in a garage.  There is a 60 amp breaker on the other end of that power cord. 

The same supervisors have an issue with requiring GFCI protection for pool pump motors when a service is replaced.  As recently as today I heard them say "Why isn't the GFCI recptacle at the pool equipment protection enough"  






The job was done by a solar company.  They reused an abandoned roof jack.


----------



## ICE




----------



## north star

*- - - >*

There are quite a few anchor bolts missing from the existing
sole plates........The tripled floor joists appear to be fully
un-attached \ un-supported  [ i.e. - the wrong type of joist
hanger  ].......Have the drain lines been pressure tested for
leaks ?

*< - - -*


----------



## ICE

Well there's nuts and washers.  The anchor bolts are at the mud sill.


----------



## Pcinspector1

That's what they all say!


----------



## jeffc

Is that strap on the beam there to help support the mid span splice?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Do they be installing a vapor barrier below the FJ's? Is that required in CA?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Do they be installing a vapor barrier below the FJ's? Is that required in CA?


No


----------



## ICE

jeffc said:


> Is that strap on the beam there to help support the mid span splice?


The mid-span splice was the reason that I posted the picture.  The work is being done by an electrical contractor that owns the property.  He said that the girders came in 16' lengths.... he didn't want to buy extra so he didn't cut them.


----------



## e hilton

_The mid-span splice was the reason that I posted the picture._

Depending on the distance to the next pier, he might have the lap backwards.  Looks like the closest pier is to the right, and the right side beam laps over the left one.   (Judging by grain pattern in the wood).  

What is the depressed area for?  Roll-in shower?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> _The mid-span splice was the reason that I posted the picture._
> 
> Depending on the distance to the next pier, he might have the lap backwards.  Looks like the closest pier is to the right, and the right side beam laps over the left one.   (Judging by grain pattern in the wood).
> 
> What is the depressed area for?  Roll-in shower?


A lap splice in the girder requires an engineers approval....same for the cantilever at the ends.

The depressed area is a shower on the plans.


----------



## my250r11

Add another pier, no engineer needed.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Is this a virtual inspection?

Is the depressed area, is it within 18-inches of grade?

Also I can't see any grade stamps from the picture, all the grade stamps are perfectly in line and must be facing the other way? looks like #2 and better?


----------



## e hilton

Pcinspector1 said:


> Is the depressed area, is it within 18-inches of grade?
> 
> Also I can't see any grade stamps from the picture, all the grade stamps are perfectly in line and must be facing the other way? looks like #2 and better?


What does 18” have to do with the framing?  
I zoomed in to both pictures ... interesting ... I didn’t see any grade stamps.  Would have expected to see at least one.


----------



## classicT

e hilton said:


> What does 18” have to do with the framing?
> I zoomed in to both pictures ... interesting ... I didn’t see any grade stamps.  Would have expected to see at least one.


Because joists closer than 18" to the ground have to be pressure treated.

*R317.1 Location Required*
Protection of wood and wood-based products from decay shall be provided in the following locations by the use of naturally durable wood or wood that is preservative-treated in accordance with AWPA U1 for the species, product, preservative and end use. Preservatives shall be listed in Section 4 of AWPA U1.

Wood joists or the bottom of a wood structural floor when closer than 18 inches (457 mm) or wood girders when closer than 12 inches (305 mm) to the exposed ground in crawl spaces or unexcavated area located within the periphery of the building foundation.
....


----------



## ICE

my250r11 said:


> Add another pier, no engineer needed.


I think that they will need five.


----------



## steveray

5 Engineers is a lot....


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> 5 Engineers is a lot....


There's no light bulbs involved so I would tend to agree.


----------



## ICE

The project is a fire repair.  The inspection request was for:
Drywall nailing in the garage and a bedroom.
Furnace and AC as well as new ducting.
Water heater.
Electrical service panel and limited rewire.

I have not been exposed to this job previously.  I sent PDF files that are guides on what pictures to provide for each trade.  I received 51 pictures and there will be another 25 after they get with the program.  I got to 44 corrections without much of any pictures for the electrical.  I didn't say anything about the corrections. I did ask for the rest of the pictures.

You just know that they are going to complain about losing the door.  The risers look almost equal.


----------



## e hilton

Self-closing hinge on the door ... nice, but is one enough?   
Thank goodness the risers match, almost makes up for the tread depth. 
I like the fancy elbow setup on the black pipe. 
T&P out the back wall ... ? 
Whats the power cord coming out of the hole in the wall? 
An extra tap on the gas pipe.  If i was a kid i would be using that to fill balloons.


----------



## north star

** * = = * **

Drip Leg on the gas piping ?
Drain line for the Water Heater pan ?
Bonding the hot & cold piping ?

** * = = * **


----------



## Pcinspector1

Wonder why the door lock is backwards?

Are they pulling combustion are from the garage to the furnace room?


----------



## e hilton

Pcinspector1 said:


> Wonder why the door lock is backwards?


Probably because the door used to swing in and they blindly reversed the who assembly.


----------



## ICE

north star said:


> ** * = = * **
> 
> Drip Leg on the gas piping ?
> Drain line for the Water Heater pan ?
> Bonding the hot & cold piping ?
> 
> ** * = = * **


optical illusion ....no drain pan


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Wonder why the door lock is backwards?
> 
> Are they pulling combustion are from the garage to the furnace room?


The combustion air openings lead to the outdoors.  This water heater is in a garage and they provided the openings.  Should I tell them that the combustion air openings are misplaced......you know, commence within 12" blah blah blah.  I didn't know that vent caps can come with built-in storm collars.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE, You sure find so interesting stuff in the field!

Do you think they have 1-inch clearance on the Type-B through the ceiling?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> ICE, You sure find so interesting stuff in the field!
> 
> Do you think they have 1-inch clearance on the Type-B through the ceiling?


I am in my garage   .....I can see through storm collars....they do not have clearance.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

Electrical service panel upgrade.


----------



## ICE

200 AMP service.






Almost hid the fact that it's aluminum.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> Almost hid the fact that it's aluminum.
> 
> View attachment 7069


? Isn't aluminum wire the normal thing for POCO feeders out your way?


----------



## ICE

Msradell said:


> ? Isn't aluminum wire the normal thing for POCO feeders out your way?


I seldom see aluminum wire. 166 amps requires 4/0 Aluminum conductor. 

_300.34 Conductor Bending Radius. The conductor shall not be bent to a radius less than 8 times the overall diameter....4/0 wire is 5/8"....5/8" x 8 x2 = 10" diameter circle._


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> I seldom see aluminum wire. 166 amps requires 4/0 Aluminum conductor.
> 
> _300.34 Conductor Bending Radius. The conductor shall not be bent to a radius less than 8 times the overall diameter....4/0 wire is 5/8"....5/8" x 8 x2 = 10" diameter circle._


Around here it's very rare to see copper feeders.


----------



## ICE

Msradell said:


> Around here it's very rare to see copper feeders.


If this was aluminum feeder it would potentially be 200 amp and 250 kcmil.


----------



## Mark K

While I have adopted creative interpretations of the code there are limits.  The building official cannot modify the building code if it is not workable. 

Baring backup data showing lesser restrictive provisions in future codes provide comparable safety, lesser restrictive provisions in future codes cannot be automatically be allowed.

Of course if strict compliance is really not feasible you could always consider IBC Section 104.10.  

Has ICC ever considered that their model codes have problems?


----------



## Norcal

Those meter/main panels are convertible from UG to OH feed, all the installers has to do is move the lugs since the factory default is underground feed.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Norcal

How are they going to take being turned down for failure to follow manufacturers instructions? 110.3(B).


----------



## ICE

Now don't be telling me that pigs can't fly.


----------



## ICE

Some pigs have a contractor's license.


----------



## TheCommish

Black goop, the wrong answer to many  problems


----------



## ICE

Now and then I run into a job that defies virtual inspection.


----------



## ICE

They were headed in the right direction.


----------



## ICE

Lipstick and a pig?


----------



## ICE

Look for clues.


----------



## ICE

The chicken or the egg?


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

He knew that a bonding bushing is required in the panal but he didn't know why.


----------



## ICE

This guy caulked a bunch of holes in the lath paper but apparently he ran out of both.


----------



## ICE

I'm guessing that I asked this guy to strap a top plate at some previous job.






Ya it had to be me.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> Look for clues.
> 
> View attachment 7105


If you're talking about the device in the foreground it's a control valve for an irrigation system. If you're talking about the ground connection that is something else entirely.


----------



## ICE

They wrapped around a house with an armored #4 to get to a plastic water main.  Such a thing as that makes one leery of everything they've done.


----------



## e hilton

It was painted ... how were they supposed to know it was plastic.


----------



## Norcal

e hilton said:


> It was painted ... how were they supposed to know it was plastic.



Scrape the paint???


----------



## TheCommish

The plastic pipe behind the sill cock is probably for the  lawn sprinkler goes  to the combined backflow preventer and sprinkler control valve in the foreground, the bond appears toe be on the metal  pipe going into the building and hopefully the metal water main.


----------



## ICE

TheCommish said:


> The plastic pipe behind the sill cock is probably for the  lawn sprinkler goes  to the combined backflow preventer and sprinkler control valve in the foreground, the bond appears toe be on the metal  pipe going into the building and hopefully the metal water main.


That's the problem with virtual inspection.  According to the contractor this is the water main.  It it at the front of the dwelling and far away from the service panel.  I thought that the sprinkler valve was tapped into the main before the main shutoff.  But as usual, what do I know?  I think a shovel is needed.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> It was painted ... how were they supposed to know it was plastic.


The paint came after the clamp and the white pipe is visible.


----------



## e hilton

Now that I’ve had my coffee ... looks like the clamp behind the valve is to a metal pipe, but the pipe in the ground is plastic. Makes me wonder if this is the supply line to the house.  But then they run a short bx cable to a true ground rospd, and then a long bx around the house to the back.  Surely there was a hose bibb off a metal pipe somewher in back that would have a shorter bx run.


----------



## ICE

This was found during a review of pictures for a PEX re-pipe virtual inspection.  There's a sheet metal something below it....any ideas what that might be.  The yellow and black cable looks like it may be a whip.


----------



## classicT

ICE said:


> This was found during a review of pictures for a PEX re-pipe virtual inspection.  There's a sheet metal something below it....any ideas what that might be.  The yellow and black cable looks like it may be a whip.
> 
> View attachment 7118


Looks like an exhaust fan housing. Wiring looks like it splits power for a fan and light.


----------



## steveray

Two yellow NM taped together....for 220 wiring?


----------



## classicT

steveray said:


> Two yellow NM taped together....for 220 wiring?


I agree on the two NM taped together. But my thought is that each is an independent circuit. One for the light, the other for a fan.


----------



## rogerpa

Junction box??


----------



## steveray

classicT said:


> I agree on the two NM taped together. But my thought is that each is an independent circuit. One for the light, the other for a fan.


Why 20A then?...This will be interesting to see how it works out....


----------



## my250r11

rogerpa said:


> Junction box??


What Mr. Inspector? The attic space can't be used as a junction box?


----------



## Norcal

steveray said:


> Two yellow NM taped together....for 220 wiring?



220 volts is not offered by any California PoCo, only 208 or 240V,  220V used extensively in the 50 hertz world though.


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> 220 volts is not offered by any California PoCo, only 208 or 240V,  220V used extensively in the 50 hertz world though.


Not that long ago we referred to 110 and 220.  It had more to do with what you actually had and that was closer to 110 and 220.  I haven't checked recently but apparently we are getting more for the money these days.


----------



## steveray

ICE said:


> Not that long ago we referred to 110 and 220.


220...221...whatever it takes.....Ahh...the habit of "old" terminology.....


----------



## Norcal

ICE said:


> Not that long ago we referred to 110 and 220.  It had more to do with what you actually had and that was closer to 110 and 220.  I haven't checked recently but apparently we are getting more for the money these days.



110,220 are pre WWII voltages, around that time it would have been 115/230V until it was raised to the normal 120/240V, 220 is  DIY lingo.   If we are talking 220 volts, the color code would be blue for the neutral, and brown for the hot/ungrounded, because it it the line to neutral voltage of a 380Y/220V system, the UK does use 110V "site transformers" for 110V jobsite power tools, each leg is 55V, stepped down from the normal 240V 50HZ, EU harmonized voltage of 230V, as some countries were 220V, some 240V so they harmonized it at 230V, nothing changed other then the voltage range.


415/240V is simpler but by the time the rest of the world started electrifying Edison's 110V was already a legacy voltage here.


----------



## Paul Sweet

Nice insulation job on the HW.  Almost as good as the electrical work.


----------



## ICE

Unless there's a scalpel involved it's DIY for me and mine.  I have to pay attention to what my wife is up to. 

One day she walked through the TV room on her way to the garage.  She had Scotch tape and scissors.  I asked her what was up and she said she was going to fix something and it was no big deal.  I pressed for more info and found out that the something was the passenger side mirror on her car.  We had a tandem garage and eight feet is just about eight feet too narrow for her to navigate.  The mirror was hanging by a cable.  I cautioned her on hitting the building to which she replied, It doesn't happen often.


----------



## JPohling

ICE said:


> Unless there's a scalpel involved it's DIY for me and mine.  I have to pay attention to what my wife is up to.
> 
> One day she walked through the TV room on her way to the garage.  She had Scotch tape and scissors.  I asked her what was up and she said she was going to fix something and it was no big deal.  I pressed for more info and found out that the something was the passenger side mirror on her car.  We had a tandem garage and eight feet is just about eight feet too narrow for her to navigate.  The mirror was hanging by the a cable.  I cautioned her on hitting the building to which she replied, It doesn't happen often.


did ya find her the duct tape


----------



## ICE

JPohling said:


> did ya find her the duct tape


I ordered a mirror and it was delivered.  I came home and she had it mostly installed.  Trouble with that is she didn't take it apart so she didn't know how to put it back together.

Every now and then I have to ask her about projects she has completed or contemplated.  One day she replaced a light bulb that is low at the stairs and behind a grill.  It is a 40 watt fixture and she installed a 115 watt bulb.   She considers it an affront that I want her to clear everything with me.  She taught college in China.  She came from China on her own.  Didn't speak English.  Got a degree in accounting from the University of Houston.  She runs the office for a manufacturing company.  And it takes me to change a light bulb.  I don't tell her that.  I just keep an eye on her when she has tools in hand.


----------



## Inspector Gift

ICE said:


> I ordered a mirror and it was delivered.  I came home and she had it mostly installed.  Trouble with that is she didn't take it apart so she didn't know how to put it back together.
> 
> Every now and then I have to ask her about projects she has completed or contemplated.  One day she replaced a light bulb that is low at the stairs and behind a grill.  It is a 40 watt fixture and she installed a 115 watt bulb.   She considers it an affront that I want her to clear everything with me.  She taught college in China.  She came from China on her own.  Didn't speak English.  Got a degree in accounting from the University of Houston.  She runs the office for a manufacturing company.  And it takes me to change a light bulb.  I don't tell her that.  I just keep an eye on her when she has tools in hand.


Sir, You are a wise man, and a good husband!


----------



## JPohling

ICE said:


> I ordered a mirror and it was delivered.  I came home and she had it mostly installed.  Trouble with that is she didn't take it apart so she didn't know how to put it back together.


The attempted installation is impressive!  I would have been handed the box.


----------



## ICE

Multiple violations yet he tried so hard.


----------



## classicT

ICE said:


> View attachment 7122


Looks like someone only had a grinding wheel on the truck. A bit overkill on the paint removal.


----------



## my250r11

JPohling said:


> The attempted installation is impressive!  I would have been handed the box.


ME TOO!!! LOL


----------



## ICE

Proper lighting enhances security.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

While doing virtual inspections I usually look at the property with Google Earth.  This job is an electrical service upgrade.  I am looking to see if there is a swimming pool.  There is almost never GFCI protection provided for the pool equipment when an upgrade is done. 

So when I brought up this property I noticed that the house and garage have been joined with an addition.  While that is not an issue that I would pursue on it's own merit, it is worth knowing.  The entire back yard is covered and that's something that the Planning Dept. could not abide.




It seems pretty straight forward that the white roof did not come with the original house.

Now look at the neighborhood.




I see four more and the last guy got carried away with it.


----------



## ICE




----------



## e hilton

Looks like the i-beam may be overspanned.


----------



## steveray

WOW!....Good thing it never rains where you are...


----------



## Pcinspector1

Hope there's some plans and an engineer involved.

What do they call that plywood sandwich below the exterior wall running the length of the steel I-beam? Is that designed out or is that one of those "We always do that!", things?


----------



## linnrg

What I get to see on my way to inspections


----------



## linnrg

Why my City rig (POS1) is starting to act up


----------



## ICE

I don't recall having ever seen this arrangement before.  Women are not going to be pleased with this.
It’s part of a restaurant TI.  Since the business is shut down it’s good time to remodel.


----------



## classicT

ICE said:


> I don't recall having ever seen this arrangement before.  Women are not going to be pleased with this.
> 
> View attachment 7137


I've seen it done on a few projects. Not a fan, but not something I can throw a code section down against either.

Just know that every soul who touches that door, has not washed their hands.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Hope there's some plans and an engineer involved.
> 
> What do they call that plywood sandwich below the exterior wall running the length of the steel I-beam? Is that designed out or is that one of those "We always do that!", things?


This was sent to me by a fellow inspector.  Not my project so I have no info.


classicT said:


> I've seen it done on a few projects. Not a fan, but not something I can throw a code section down against either.
> 
> Just know that every soul who touches that door, has not washed their hands.


I always wash my hands before I pee.....you never know where those hands have been.


----------



## classicT

ICE said:


> I always wash my hands before I pee.....you never know where those hands have been.


I've always said that my hands are dirtier then my...


----------



## TheCommish

ICE said:


> I don't recall having ever seen this arrangement before.  Women are not going to be pleased with this.
> 
> View attachment 7137


are there enough lavatories for the number of occupants in the building


----------



## Norcal

ICE said:


> I don't recall having ever seen this arrangement before.  Women are not going to be pleased with this.
> 
> View attachment 7137


I thought that single occupancy restrooms in California had be all gender.


----------



## steveray

405.3.2 Public lavatories. In employee and public toilet rooms, the required lavatory shall be located in the same room as the required water closet.

This will get weird when the shy bladder people win out and all of the W/C and urinals have to be in their own "room"....


----------



## e hilton

Norcal said:


> I thought that single occupancy restrooms in California had be all gender.


With 2 fixtures per room, why do you call them single occupancy?


----------



## e hilton

I look at strange details sometimes.  Looks like round floor drains under the lavs and the urinal, and either no drain or a square one in the women’s room.  Why the disparity?


----------



## Mech

I'm gonna say no drain with a square TP dispenser in the women's room.


----------



## e hilton

Mech said:


> I'm gonna say no drain with a square TP dispenser in the women's room.


Ok, i would agree with that.  So what now ... no overflows in the womens room?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Ok, i would agree with that.  So what now ... no overflows in the womens room?


The presence of a urinal triggers the requirement for a floor drain.  Apparently women don’t pee on the floor......as much as men.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> The presence of a urinal triggers the requirement for a floor drain.  Apparently women don’t pee on the floor......as much as men.


I had a friend who was between jobs and he hired on as a maintenance guy at a walmart.  He said the nastiest place to clean up was always the womens restroom.


----------



## ICE

A friend worked at a stadium where a hockey team was based.  He said that the women trashed their bathrooms.


----------



## ICE




----------



## my250r11

I will assume that the sealant is on tears or fasteners going thru the felt?


----------



## ICE

my250r11 said:


> I will assume that the sealant is on tears or fasteners going thru the felt?


Staples.  I would assume that the bent portion of the wire that creates a standoff would be the place for a staple.


----------



## linnrg

ICE said:


> Staples.  I would assume that the bent portion of the wire that creates a standoff would be the place for a staple.


I was wondering about that - the standoff wire looks to be a heavier gauge though?  We don't have plaster up here very much.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE,
Is that three coat stucco wire of two coat and a jacket stucco wire?

I've never seen that product


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

The guy on the phone claims to have a license.  He said that this is new technology.  I heard him say "Do you understand that there is a wire in the armor?"


----------



## JPohling

ICE said:


> The guy on the phone claims to have a license.  He said that this is new technology.  I heard him say "Do you understand that there is a wire in the armor?"
> 
> View attachment 7153
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 7154


Perhaps a drivers license?


----------



## classicT

"New Technology"

How old is this guy? UL published the first edition of UL 4 – Standard for Armored Cable in 1917.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> The guy on the phone claims to have a license.  He said that this is new technology.  I heard him say "Do you understand that there is a wire in the armor?"
> 
> View attachment 7153
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 7154



ICE, Can't say I've ever seen that before? 

Did they use a wire brush on the pipe below the approved clamp?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Who is this guy?

Can you find his book on line, new technology?

Does he know Eustance Soares?


----------



## steveray

ICE said:


> The guy on the phone claims to have a license.  He said that this is new technology.  I heard him say "Do you understand that there is a wire in the armor?"
> 
> View attachment 7153
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 7154


I think if you torque it till the screw head snaps off it works...You have to read all the way to the bottom of the listing of the clamp....I think it is UL467.5.....


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> I think if you torque it till the screw head snaps off it works...You have to read all the way to the bottom of the listing of the clamp....I think it is UL467.5.....


UL467 is for indoors


----------



## ICE

The job is a residential solar array.  The contractor has removed Edison's seal, removed a cover and installed a device that monitors the current.  The installer (a national corp.) claims that this is a common practice.  I turned it down.

I also determined that the service panel was installed without a permit.  That was not done recently.


----------



## classicT

Ok, I've seen something similar pop up on advertisements before (see https://sense.com/). I've always been suspicious because I figured that they would be measuring at either the feeders coming into the meter or the back side of the panel. Both seem to be big no-no's, and I don't see that it has a UL or equiv. listing.

https://sense.com/installation


----------



## ICE

This is a service panel upgrade.  The conduits are packed with the old cable.  Because there are no knockouts and the installer didn't want to punch a bunch he opted for conduit.  And yes I noticed that the hub is screwed.....or not as it were.







I haven't gotten to the bottom of what's up with the service entrance conductors.  The first guy that I was dealing with said,  "I can tell that you are a little frustrated with me."




"Licensed Contractor" used to mean something.  I know the difference.  I see what the trade has become and shake my head in disgust.


----------



## e hilton

classicT said:


> . Both seem to be big no-no's,
> 
> https://sense.com/installation


Why.


----------



## e hilton

Ice ... do i remember you saying that its not ok to have conduits enter the back if a breaker panel?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Ice ... do i remember you saying that its not ok to have conduits enter the back if a breaker panel?


When surface mounted over stucco we do not allow a rear entry of any kind.


----------



## Norcal

What was proposed to take care of the undersized and too short conductors? With the parallel conductors used by panel manufacturers between the load side of the meter & the main breaker, in the 3rd photo from the bottom the PoCo UG feed seems to be the only  place the that CT's could be placed, still wrong IMO. What does SCE do about if when they find out about it?


----------



## Beniah Naylor

"The floating staircase". Not a huge span, but it's got some problems.

Photo Oct 30, 2 08 26 PM.jpg
Photo Oct 30, 2 08 22 PM.jpg
Photo Oct 30, 2 08 13 PM.jpg


----------



## ICE

Picture from Beniah Naylor


----------



## TheCommish

Works for me, what are the allegedd issues


----------



## ICE

TheCommish said:


> Works for me, what are the allegedd issues


Allegedly an alleged issue is the improper use of cabinet material.


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> What was proposed to take care of the undersized and too short conductors? With the parallel conductors used by panel manufacturers between the load side of the meter & the main breaker, in the 3rd photo from the bottom the PoCo UG feed seems to be the only  place the that CT's could be placed, still wrong IMO. What does SCE do about if when they find out about it?


The short conductors have not been explained.  I am still waiting to hear what Edison has to say.


----------



## e hilton

You know what ... if the top of the stringer is bearing against the floor joist, it’s probably ok.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> You know what ... if the top of the stringer is bearing against the floor joist, it’s probably ok.


Not even....the board that the first stringer was cut from doesn't appear to be a good choice.


----------



## e hilton

What do you think it is.


----------



## Rick18071

ICE said:


> Picture from Beniah Naylor
> 
> View attachment 7175
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 7176


R311.5.1 Attachment. Exterior landings, decks, balconies,
stairs and similar facilities shall be positively
anchored to the primary structure to resist both vertical
and lateral forces or shall be designed to be self-supporting.
*Attachment shall not be accomplished by use of toenails
or nails subject to withdrawal.*


----------



## Beniah Naylor

So, two problems with this (in my opinion) - the top of the stringers are bearing only on the 3/4" piece of plywood, with no hangers, and that piece of plywood is nailed to the side of the truss above the top of the stair stringers, causing a hinging effect and a nail pulling effect. At the bottom, the stringers are notched to fit over the landing, and the way they are notched will cause the wood to split along the grain and the stairs will fail at the bottom. Between the nail pulling out problems, and the use of this "structural cabinet material" at the top, and the stairs being notched incorrectly at the bottom, he had to get an engineer.

I envisioned these stairs 10 or 20 years down the road, someone walking on them - and the bottom fails, they fall through to the ground below, the stairs hinge at the top, break off or pull out, and fall on top of the person who just fell through. A young man would probably walk away from such an incident, other people, perhaps not.

Or maybe not - it's a small span. I just wasn't real comfortable with it.


----------



## Beniah Naylor

ICE said:


> Allegedly an alleged issue is the improper use of cabinet material


^^^^ Awesome ^^^^


----------



## Beniah Naylor

e hilton said:


> What do you think it is.


It appeared to be a really smooth piece of OSB - I didn't look too closely at it, I just know it had oriented strands and was 3/4".


----------



## e hilton

Beniah Naylor said:


> - the top of the stringers are bearing only on the 3/4" piece of plywood,


I disagree.  It looks like 2x12 dimensional lumber, might be spf rather than syp.  No hangers ... agree with that.  But it looks like the top end of the stringers are high enough that they would be bearing on the floor joist if the advantech was not there.  The middle stringer appears yo have a full size advantech doubler, and all have a 2x4 doubler on the bottom edge.  

I‘m thinking the advantech at the top is there to keep the stringers from twisting.  It is unconventional construction.


----------



## e hilton

Beniah Naylor said:


> It appeared to be a really smooth piece of OSB


Not the stringers.  The top adaptaplate is osb, and the middle doubler is too.


----------



## Pcinspector1

I've seen it done that way with a piece of 3/4-inch sheeting but in my case more of the stringer is against the double floor joist.


----------



## Beniah Naylor

Pcinspector1 said:


> I've seen it done that way with a piece of 3/4-inch sheeting but in my case more of the stringer is against the double floor joist.


Yeah, if they had more of the stringer against the joist I probably wouldn't have worried. They got an engineer, who had them add some hangers and some brackets and called it good. Works for me...


----------



## ICE

This is on a manufactured home.  It's not my job to inspect.  Another inspector sent the pictures because of the locking hardware.


----------



## Pcinspector1

First I thought why does a mobile home need a Double 60?
Then I saw that the mice have been nibbling on the dead front metal to make room for that D60
Then I saw the number 1 below the main breaker, and said $#*%#

By they way, the breaker schedule is worthless.


----------



## ICE

The job started out as twenty-two PV modules.  The electric service panel was upgraded prior to the solar company showing up and there was no permit.  I required a permit and then commenced with corrections, one of which was to provide GFCI protection for the swimming pool equipment.  There has been several subsequent inspections with no progress for the GFCI protection.

This is not the first time that I have had to write a correction related to GFCI protection of pool equipment.  The usual remedy is to install GFCI breakers in the panel for the pump motor and if there is a heater, it gets protection too.  The light is usually supplied through a GFCI receptacle that is located near the equipment.  I don't like the light being supplied through an old receptacle but my hands are tied in that regard with the "it was approved at one time" mantra.

Beyond that is the concept of "We only touched the main panel and whatever is wrong outside of that panel is not our responsibility."  I always assure them that I agree and take on the responsibility for them.

In this particular case I expected the 50 amp feeder that supplies the swimming pool sub-panel to be replaced with a GFCI breaker.  That didn't happen due to the mentioned "argument".  In addition to that was the claim that there is a swimming pool sub-panel and any GFCI protection would be located there.  So I asked for a look at the sub-panel. The last correction that I wrote that day was "A licensed contractor shall obtain an electrical permit for a sub-panel that serves the swimming pool."










The battle will now be me against the contractor, the owner, and my supervisors.  Not to worry....no matter what the vote turns out to be...I'll never concede defeat.


----------



## e hilton

Looks like the insulation got dinged when the wires were pulled.  
Did you get a picture of the subpanel?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Looks like the insulation got dinged when the wires were pulled.
> Did you get a picture of the subpanel?


That is the sub-panel.

Here is another example of a swimming pool sub-panel that was "corrected " by a solar contractor after installing a service panel upgrade.  Unfortunately I don't have a picture of what it looks like with the dead-front removed.


----------



## ICE

She must have climbed that ladder in order to be able to take the picture.


----------



## e hilton

Why would the filter and the heater be connected?


----------



## Msradell

e hilton said:


> Why would the filter and the heater be connected?


They are probably sharing a neutral


----------



## ICE




----------



## e hilton

Why wouldn’t they trim the mounting rails to length?  Don‘t worry about the shadows, they are only there on sunny days.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Not a first responder but if they have to vent that tile roof, do they bust the tiles, pull them off with a hook or grab a concrete saw? Just curious. 

Here we make the solar PV installer give the 36-inch and 18-inch walkway. Just about every design comes in without required access and has to be redone. 75% of the projects in the field are different than what was approved. The solar industry scares me a little.


----------



## Beniah Naylor

Me: "What is going on with that form up on the embankment?"
Concrete guy: "That's a footing for the front porch/deck."

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ypjh5l12etztk17/IMG_0100.jpg?dl=0


2018 IRC 403.1.7.2
2018 IRC 2604.4 - This one is specifically for plumbing, but demonstrates intent.


----------



## Inspector Gift

ICE said:


> View attachment 7189
> 
> 
> 
> She must have climbed that ladder in order to be able to take the picture.


I HOPE THOSE BARRED WINDOWS ARE NOT BEDROOM EGRESS WINDOWS.


----------



## Inspector Gift

Beniah Naylor said:


> Me: "What is going on with that form up on the embankment?"
> Concrete guy: "That's a footing for the front porch/deck."
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ypjh5l12etztk17/IMG_0100.jpg?dl=0
> 
> 2018 IRC 403.1.7.2
> 2018 IRC 2604.4 - This one is specifically for plumbing, but demonstrates intent.


The wire stirrups for the rebar look like they are in direct contact with the rebar.  Not approved here.


----------



## e hilton

Inspector Gift said:


> The wire stirrups for the rebar look like they are in direct contact with the rebar.  Not approved here.


How do you do it?


----------



## Beniah Naylor

Inspector Gift said:


> The wire stirrups for the rebar look like they are in direct contact with the rebar.  Not approved here.


I recall another thread recently where they were discussing that - and really it comes down to the AHJ. The Concrete Manual says "Factory-made wire bar supports  are widely used. These may be plain steel wire, galvanized steel wire, or stainless steel wire."  But in the section above that, it says "the supports must be... and must not have any other adverse effect in the concrete" 

Whether or not they cause an "adverse effect" can be debated either way.

However, we allow it in our jurisdiction.


----------



## Inspector Gift

e hilton said:


> How do you do it?


Our region gets a lot of rain, about 83" per year.  Our clay soil holds moisture and contributes to rusting and corrosion of any unprotected ferrous material it contacts.  Therefore, rebar must not be in contact with the ground to prevent rusting.  The use of plastic caps on rebar, or plastic stirrups, or concrete dobies, are just some of the approved methods here.


----------



## Beniah Naylor

Inspector Gift said:


> Our region gets a lot of rain, about 83" per year.  Our clay soil holds moisture and contributes to rusting and corrosion of any unprotected ferrous material it contacts.  Therefore, rebar must not be in contact with the ground to prevent rusting.  The use of plastic caps on rebar, or plastic stirrups, or concrete dobies, are just some of the approved methods here.


Makes sense. We only get around 34" annually.


----------



## e hilton

The problem with dobies is keeping them in place.  Not many people take the time to wire them to the rebar, and the6 get kicked out of place when the concrete is placed.


----------



## ICE

Inspector Gift said:


> I HOPE THOSE BARRED WINDOWS ARE NOT BEDROOM EGRESS WINDOWS.


I did wonder also.  I zoomed in and can see hinges in the guard that is around the corner.


----------



## ICE

This picture was posted earlier and I was asked what was up with the short wire.  Today I was able to ask the contractor. He said that he is waiting for Edison to replace the wire.  He thinks that Edison will replace the service entrance conductors.  I asked him if he has a contractors license.  He said yes....just not electrical contractor.  The owner pulled the permit and hired this guy.  I told him that he shouldn't be doing electrical work.  Within ten minutes of hanging up I got a call from my office manager.  The contractor must carry his balls around in a pail.....golf balls that is.


----------



## ICE

A solar contractor performed a service panel upgrade.  This is the connection to the uffer.....he thinks that this is presentable.


----------



## Beniah Naylor

What is wrong with this? I'm not real knowledgeable about electrical...


----------



## ICE

Beniah Naylor said:


> What is wrong with this? I'm not real knowledgeable about electrical...


The connection has an access on the inside of the wall. I’m not sure but I suspect it is located in the garage.  The original clamp faces away from the outside.  The new clamp faces away from the garage access.  The hole in the exterior wall needs to be repaired....watertight would be asking for too much.

The fix is turning the clamp towards the access and patching the wall.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Why wouldn’t they trim the mounting rails to length?


The better question is why would they. I have suggested that before and was asked if it is a code violation. It is a violation if it is on the setback side of the array.


----------



## e hilton

Why would they?   To make a neat installation.  Would you let the gutter run a foot past the end of the roof because it came in pre-cut lengths?


----------



## Joe Engel

Looks aren't everything although I admit a neat, clean job is easier to inspect. Generally in metal roofing, cuts in the field expose the metal to moisture and potential of rust intrusion. Some cutting is necessary and they have to be treated.   If the uni-strut or gutter system is used whole or uncut, there is less chance of rust and potentially a longer life of the support system. IMO.


----------



## Paul Sweet

"Would you let the gutter run a foot past the end of the roof because it came in pre-cut lengths?"

I could reject it if I was the owner or architect.  I don't know of anything in the code that would let me reject it if I were an inspector.


----------



## e hilton

Paul Sweet said:


> "Would you let the gutter run a foot past the end of the roof because it came in pre-cut lengths?"
> 
> I could reject it if I was the owner or architect.  I don't know of anything in the code that would let me reject it if I were an inspector.


It’s a tripping hazard in the required access path.


----------



## Inspector Gift

"TRIPPING HAZARD" - For years, I have been looking for the code for Tripping Hazard.   Where is it?


----------



## e hilton

Inspector Gift said:


> .   Where is it?


Do I have to do everything for you?   It’s in the addendum.


----------



## ICE

When I was a newbie inspector I had a knowledgeable supervisor that was trusted by all.  One day I lamented that I see things that are wrong that have no code to use to correct them.  He said to make one up.  He said that 90% of the people out there don't know the code and won't know any better.


----------



## Norcal

ICE said:


> When I was a newbie inspector I had a knowledgeable supervisor that was trusted by all.  One day I lamented that I see things that are wrong that have no code to use to correct them.  He said to make one up.  He said that 90% of the people out there don't know the code and won't know any better.


I really believe that specific code section(s) should be cited when a job is tagged, it prevents the Urban Legend Code* from being cited, & is a learning experience for all, but in a good number posts here the "installers" don't give a flying **** either.

* Urban legends such a no splices in panels, no Romex® in conduit & so on.


----------



## ICE

I write way too many corrections to provide code sections.  If I had cheat sheet I could provide sections....but I don't.  Consider that I do 12 virtual inspections each day.  Some get no corrections and others get twenty.  Of the twelve, half involve two to four trades.  I find electricians with a code book a few times a month.  I have never encountered anyone with a Building/Residential code book.  Maybe twice have I run into a contractor with a mechanical code book.  The electricians that have a code book seldom need a code section to go with a correction.  Now and then they give me a code section.


----------



## linnrg

ICE said:


> I write way too many corrections to provide code sections.  If I had cheat sheet I could provide sections....but I don't.  Consider that I do 12 virtual inspections each day.  Some get no corrections and others get twenty.  Of the twelve, half involve two to four trades.  I find electricians with a code book a few times a month.  I have never encountered anyone with a Building/Residential code book.  Maybe twice have I run into a contractor with a mechanical code book.  The electricians that have a code book seldom need a code section to go with a correction.  Now and then they give me a code section.


I Agree,
Even though here in AK they have to take a test on the IRC before they can do residential, and they have to do some Cont. Ed. the residential contractors never have the book.  The only code book they ever buy is the version that they needed for that first test.  Electricians and plumbers are more likely to have the book on the jobsite.

Wouldn't it be nice if I only had to study one or two books!


----------



## mtlogcabin

Anyone who has a phone has access to a digital code book in the field. In todays digital age there are no excuses for not having access to a code book.
Also the practice of "making up a code" should be a thing of the past. I am sure you do not like it when a contractor lies to you and when you make up a code you are lying to the contractor and you have just lost any trust or respect you may have built for yourself over the years


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:


> Anyone who has a phone has access to a digital code book in the field. In todays digital age there are no excuses for not having access to a code book.
> Also the practice of "making up a code" should be a thing of the past. I am sure you do not like it when a contractor lies to you and when you make up a code you are lying to the contractor and you have just lost any trust or respect you may have built for yourself over the years


Your reason for not fabricating a code does not fit with my circumstances.  There is no respect for me to lose.  The majority of the constituents come from a culture of acceptable corruption.  The majority of the building officials are inept to straight up evil.

I don't fabricate codes because I am too busy with the real codes.  Corrections, on the other hand, are not always code based.  And I suppose you and others would have a problem with that too....but hey now....sometimes I just step out of your comfort zone.  There are things that need to be addressed that have no code to go with it.  "Water the orange tree"---"Give the dog more chain"---"Clean the debris out of the gutters"---That last one sets roofers off....The second one sets me off.....and oh my goodness I used to be an orange farmer.

And the code book on a phone is a cruel hoax.


----------



## mtlogcabin

ICE said:


> Corrections, on the other hand, are not always code based


We call your examples "Suggestions" not corrections. Do you do a follow up inspection to see if they complied with your corrections?


----------



## Pcinspector1

I was told the other day to "Stop being a construction superintendent and just tell me the code violations that need to be addressed!" 

Man did that hurt, "Some contractors are just brutal!" then this...ooh by the way my partner tested positive for covid, guess I should have told you before you did my inspection! (Horses a$$ emoji here).


----------



## ICE

Some pretty conduit.


----------



## Mech

Was the paint approved for use on shingles?


----------



## ICE

Mech said:


> Was the paint approved for use on shingles?


Can you believe that they are that lame?


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:


> We call your examples "Suggestions" not corrections. Do you do a follow up inspection to see if they complied with your corrections?


I'll go back on the oranges about this time next month....I always get a frantic phone call from the owner with the dog chain correction .....the gutters is a lost cause.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE, what is that channel on the very front side of the panels down by the roof edge? 

Spray paint job...not good....not good!


----------



## e hilton

Looks like some kind of trim piece.  To hide the mounting brackets.


----------



## fatboy

I would be pi$$ed as hell if someone did that to my, what appears to be new, shingles.

Just sayin........


----------



## Pcinspector1

e hilton said:


> Looks like some kind of trim piece.  To hide the mounting brackets.



I think it's some type of trim piece also, haven't seen that before.


----------



## my250r11

We require 18" on both sides of valleys and at least 3' on one side of the ridge as well as 3' from all edges for access for fire guys and home owners. I would cite that for the none trimmed strut. Our state code also allows for use to abate any unsafe condition so I could cite the trip hazard also.




linnrg said:


> and they have to do some Cont. Ed


Wish they had to here.

Shouldn't leave the apprentice unsupervised with spray Paint!!


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> ICE, what is that channel on the very front side of the panels down by the roof edge?


That is a wind deflector.  It is aluminum.  It is not bonded to any ground.


----------



## ICE

The post base for a patio cover needs to be bonded to the equipotential bonding grid for a swimming pool.


----------



## steveray

And the bolt too unless you are considering that bonded through the base....No limit to metallic part sizes for the 5' stuff like there is for pool structure<4"....


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE




----------



## Norcal

Those meter main panels are usually listed for use as service equipment only, with a permanently bonded neutral,  so am assuming someone added the insulated neutral. You going to let it fly? What did they use to jumper the meter jaws? Have seen a kit made for the purpose but was not insulated.


----------



## Norcal

Since do not see a edit button, forgot to comment about the fine roof jack install, & roof shingle patching, comp roofs are pretty easy to do a nice job cutting in roof jacks into, which they failed miserably by using wet patch,  & mixing architectural & 3-tab shingles is always a nice touch,  a nightmare for whoever paid a large sum to have it done.


----------



## fatboy

Pcinspector1 said:


> What would you say is the estimated cost from a plan review screen, review software, permitting software, field I-pads etc.?





Norcal said:


> *Since do not see a edit button, f*orgot to comment about the fine roof jack install, & roof shingle patching, comp roofs are pretty easy to do a nice job cutting in roof jacks into, which they failed miserably by using wet patch, & mixing architectural & 3-tab shingles is always a nice touch,  a nightmare for whoever paid a large sum to have it done.



Join forces as a sawhorse, and you get some extra perks!


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> Those meter main panels are usually listed for use as service equipment only, with a permanently bonded neutral,  so am assuming someone added the insulated neutral. You going to let it fly? What did they use to jumper the meter jaws? Have seen a kit made for the purpose but was not insulated.


Well then, it appears that the person in charge has overstepped their bounds with this one.  While there are ways to go about transforming some service panels to a sub-panel, not entirely legal mind you but there are ways.....This is not one of them.  Does anyone know of a UL listing for a meter socket bypass. What Standard would apply?  I am not 100% sure that there is no listed meter socket bypass.  I am convinced that if there is...one, it's not this one and two, it would be for a temporary use.


----------



## e hilton

Norcal said:


> , forgot to comment about the fine roof jack install,


Looks like the mast used to be to the right and lower than the current location.  About where the half-moon cut is in the shingle.  And then they used 3-tab to patch the old hole.


----------



## steveray

ICE said:


> Does anyone know of a UL listing for a meter socket bypass. What Standard would apply?  I am not 100% sure that there is no listed meter socket bypass.  I am convinced that if there is...one, it's not this one and two, it would be for a temporary use.


I think milbank makes one...ran across it once....


----------



## steveray

1MMJCK | Eaton meter stack meter jumper and cover | Eaton
					

1MMJCK - Eaton meter stack meter jumper and cover, Meter jumper and cover, 1MP, 1MM, and 3MM modular metering stacks




					www.eaton.com
				




Maybe....


----------



## mtlogcabin

Shouldn't the wire with the red marking be on the left and the black on the right isn't that the correct way to do it? Not sure if it is code or just industry standard


----------



## Pcinspector1

mtlogcabin said:


> Shouldn't the wire with the red marking be on the left and the black on the right isn't that the correct way to do it? Not sure if it is code or just industry standard
> View attachment 7245


Mtlog, 
Please provide additional commentary, South wire has the red stripe on their wire, I have not seen that yet, here they will use red and white tape.

Should that service have a bonding nut?


----------



## ICE

Some solar companies are soulless.


----------



## e hilton

Solar panels are cheaper than new shingles?


----------



## steveray

Yep....and shirley they don't tell the homeowner that they need a permit to remove and reinstall the panels when they get the roof permit next year....


----------



## ICE

Doing virtual inspections limits my ability to tell people the truth.  Had I been there I would have said it just like it reads.  Putting the same words in writing is considered being disrespectful and I get chewed out.....like that makes a difference.

18541 ******* was scheduled for an inspection of corrections related to a service panel upgrade on 12-18-2020. It has been a long day.  It is almost four o'clock.  I am tired.  And then I got to your job.  Oh my goodness what a mess.  I have no words for the service mast roof flashing.  The service entrance conduit needs to be bonded to the enclosure and you made every effort to isolate it....Teflon tape, a rubber gasket and sheet metal screws no less.  The grounding electrode conductor is wrapped in tape....well at least you used electrical tape.

So I am stopping now.  It is Friday and I might pick it up over the weekend but whatever I do I am convinced that it won't be enough.


----------



## e hilton

And the conduit flange is secured (sort of) with Simpson joist hanger screws.


----------



## Norcal

Almost looks like a plumbing reducer screwed into the hub, that style of hub also does not use a gasket, the enclosure opening hole has a upturned flange in the sheet metal to shed water, and as e hilton mentioned the screws are wrong, OEM screws supplied with the hub have machine threads, 10-32, 1/4-20, or 1/4-28. Plus the wrong ground clamp used with armored ground cable, & the tape. Do you ever see good workmanship? 

That style hub is used by Anchor, Circle AW (B-Line), & others, GE*, & Midwest (GE owns Midwest), use a similar style hub, but the mounting holes have different center to center mounting hole measurements.

*Should I say ABB?   They own that former GE division now.


----------



## ICE

The first inspection revealed four conduit punched through the top endwall.




The last line says that this is not permitted.  So did the correction that I wrote.





At the next inspection I found their idea of a fix.






When I asked to see what was used to seal the top I was shown plastic plugs.  Within short order the workman was shouting at me.  I ended the face time call and within five minutes I got a call from my office manager.  It seems that I have upset a contractor.


----------



## jar546

Chris works with some guys that would have done both the before and the after


----------



## jar546

The more I look at this thread, the more I am reminded of Pennsylvania.


----------



## Beniah Naylor

ICE said:


> The first inspection revealed four conduit punched through the top endwall.
> 
> View attachment 7263
> 
> 
> The last line says that this is not permitted.  So did the correction that I wrote.
> 
> View attachment 7264
> 
> 
> 
> At the next inspection I found their idea of a fix.
> 
> 
> View attachment 7266
> 
> 
> 
> When I asked to see what was used to seal the top I was shown plastic plugs.  Within short order the workman was shouting at me.  I ended the face time call and within five minutes I got a call from my office manager.  It seems that In have upset a contractor.


Are the load conductors still entering the box too high on the wall of the box? I vaguely remember there being a manufacturer rule about that, but I could be confused.


----------



## ICE

Beniah Naylor said:


> Are the load conductors still entering the box too high on the wall of the box? I vaguely remember there being a manufacturer rule about that, but I could be confused.


Technically, the listing of the 3R enclosure has been voided.  I say technically because if you ask Schneider Electric for a letter they will tell you that the manufacturer provided a sufficient number of knockouts and drilling/punching holes voids the 3R listing.  If you just ask Schneider for an opinion without a letter you get a different answer.  As long as the 3R feature is maintained with rain-tight entries they are forgiven the fact that it voids a listing. 

The label pretty much says that.  It states that load conductors are not to exit through the endwall.  There's no knockouts in the endwall....so if the issue were that only knockouts are allowed to be used and drilling/punching holes is outlawed it would not need to mention the endwall.  Since it does mention the endwall where there is no knockouts but not the sidewall where there is a ko one could extrapolate his way into drilling the sidewall with abandon.


----------



## ICE

This is at the meter panel.


----------



## fatboy

WOW! Don't know what else to say to that, other than what the heck is that all about?


----------



## steveray

It's for drainage...


----------



## ICE

What I find odd about this is that it happened within a day or two of the post just before it.  The discussion was about violating a listing by drilling holes and then this contractor hit one out of the park.


----------



## Norcal

ICE said:


> Technically, the listing of the 3R enclosure has been voided.  I say technically because if you ask Schneider Electric for a letter they will tell you that the manufacturer provided a sufficient number of knockouts and drilling/punching holes voids the 3R listing.  If you just ask Schneider for an opinion without a letter you get a different answer.  As long as the 3R feature is maintained with rain-tight entries they are forgiven the fact that it voids a listing.
> 
> The label pretty much says that.  It states that load conductors are not to exit through the endwall.  There's no knockouts in the endwall....so if the issue were that only knockouts are allowed to be used and drilling/punching holes is outlawed it would not need to mention the endwall.  Since it does mention the endwall where there is no knockouts but not the sidewall where there is a ko one could extrapolate his way into drilling the sidewall with abandon.


If the entries are above live parts, hubs, sealing locknuts, or other means, must be used to prevent the entry of water into the enclosure, and those punched holes are above live parts.

What has me wondering is what was done with the service entrance conductors in the last photos? Looks like a UG only panel, normally power companies do not like them in LB's. & they sure went crazy with the gutters.  Without photos with the covers off it is hard to tell what they were up to.


----------



## Norcal

Open KO's always annoy me because it's a invite for rodents to take up residence & cause carnage, by doing what they do best, chewing, peeing, & pooping, all over everything.


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> What has me wondering is what was done with the service entrance conductors in the last photos? Looks like a UG only panel, normally power companies do not like them in LB's. & they sure went crazy with the gutters.  Without photos with the covers off it is hard to tell what they were up to.


The damage is in the section just below the meter.  The service lateral comes in at the section just to the left.


----------



## ICE




----------



## fatboy

Any clown who does this, should be tarred and feathered themselves! Friggen hacks, won't even begin to call them a "tradesperson".

If this was my roof, I would get a professional roofer in there, get it fixed right, and deduct it from the bill for the service work. Settle it in small claims court.

Mechanical people are just as bad sometimes.

EDIT: I went back, I see this is tied to the thread above, where they butchered the enclosure also.......go figure.


----------



## ICE

fatboy said:


> EDIT: I went back, I see this is tied to the thread above, where they butchered the enclosure also.......go figure.


They are two different contractors.  And here is a turd.


----------



## e hilton

Am i seeing that right?   The copper wires that come up through the middle knockout ... twist around ...  but aren’t attached to anything.


----------



## Norcal

e hilton said:


> Am i seeing that right?   The copper wires that come up through the middle knockout ... twist around ...  but aren’t attached to anything.


I see the same thing, to add to it there is a spot on the bar to accept it without the need for any accessories.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Am i seeing that right?   The copper wires that come up through the middle knockout ... twist around ...  but aren’t attached to anything.


Yes that was done that way.  Notice the cable entering the back of the panel.  I haven't done an inspection yet and don't have enough pictures to know, but I suspect that the panel is surface mounted and the cable out the back is a deal breaker.  So when it is redone there should be a better outcome with the grounding.


----------



## ICE

The job is a service panel upgrade.  The picture was provided to demonstrate that a jumper was installed at the water heater from cold to hot to gas.  When there armored wire one might assume that they are relatively new at this type of work.  I know that making assumptions is not appropriate so I just assume that nobody ever knows what they are doing.


----------



## ICE

The project is tesla two storage batteries.  All of the load that was fed from the main panel has been moved to a 200amp selected load panel.  They have installed a 175 amp breaker in the main that goes through a gateway to power the selected load.  The main panel label limits the maximum permitted breaker to 100amps.


----------



## e hilton

Yeah but it fit, so it’s ok.


----------



## Norcal

To add, what about wire bending space too? For that size cable 4" would be required, they are trying to stuff 10 pounds of manure in a 5 pound bag.


----------



## Beniah Naylor

https://www.dropbox.com/s/12w6vrgkwp1xdpj/IMG_0101.JPG?dl=0

This was an underground plumbing inspection for a slab home. Although it's hard to tell from the photo, the drain pipe that feeds into the sewer was poured directly into the footing, with no sleeve or relieving arch. The pipe is just set right into the concrete.

2018 IRC P2603.4


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for the furnace replacement.  The water heater was installed sometime in the past without benefit of a permit.  The vent is a correction.  The contractor pointed out that the venting was existing.....like I didn't know that.


----------



## e hilton

Can you reject the furnace installation because the vent is not connected to a proper vent stack?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Did you gig em for a flex GAS line without a tag or is that not required or enforced anymore?

Even double wall requires a 1-inch clearance, not sure what's going on at the ceiling?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Can you reject the furnace installation because the vent is not connected to a proper vent stack?


It depends on which manager gets the contractor's complaint....that's if the contractor complains.  Some managers will forgive all manner of deficiency as long as it was there before the contractor got there.  Other managers know a situation when they see one.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Did you gig em for a flex GAS line without a tag or is that not required or enforced anymore?


I don't know about tags on gas connectors.  Please enlighten me.  I suppose there's a code for that.


----------



## Pcinspector1

May not be a CA requirement?

2018 IFGC 401.9 shall bear the identification of the manufacture.

411.1 (4) listed and labeled appliance connectors 

I guess if the CSST appliance connector has this *ANSI Z21.24/CGA 6.10* stamped on it somewhere, you can approve? 

Just didn't see the tag in the pic that has a lot of information on it in regards to installation and certification.


----------



## ICE

Missing is the placard with the roof layout showing the array.  The plans will generally have a sheet of what sticker goes where.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Agree, the plans will tell us where the stickers are to be placed, FAILED inspection I suspect. 

Interesting no new conduits near the meter?


----------



## linnrg

ICE said:


> Missing is the placard with the roof layout showing the array.  The plans will generally have a sheet of what sticker goes where.
> 
> View attachment 7302


ICE - I thought the diagram was required for PV arrays with rapid shut down.  Are you seeing rapid shut down on all of them?  The labels in the picture do not indicate Rapid Shutdown.


----------



## ICE

linnrg said:


> ICE - I thought the diagram was required for PV arrays with rapid shut down.  Are you seeing rapid shut down on all of them?  The labels in the picture do not indicate Rapid Shutdown.


Rapid shutdown is always required.

This is the placard I referred to:


----------



## linnrg

ICE - What I read Rapid shutdown is per 690.12 "if on or in a building shall...."  Do you not have any pole based systems non rooftop or wall that have sun tracking etc.? I had one project that had both roof and wall arrays and at the time I wondered how is the person walking by an array or a rooftop maintenance person protected or is the only concern for first responders?  Up here we have long handled snow removal devices.


----------



## ICE

linnrg said:


> ICE - What I read Rapid shutdown is per 690.12 "if on or in a building shall...."  Do you not have any pole based systems non rooftop or wall that have sun tracking etc.? I had one project that had both roof and wall arrays and at the time I wondered how is the person walking by an array or a rooftop maintenance person protected or is the only concern for first responders?  Up here we have long handled snow removal devices.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 7305


So far I have only encountered rooftop arrays.


----------



## ICE

I was sent this picture by a solar contractor.  I noted that the stranded wire shows damage.  




The contractor disagreed with that assessment so I sent him a picture.  He still disagrees with me.  He claims that what I see as damage is an optical illusion.  So I asked him to eliminate the optical illusion.


----------



## MtnArch

ICE said:


> I was sent this picture by a solar contractor.  I noted that the stranded wire shows damage.
> 
> View attachment 7309
> 
> 
> The contractor disagreed with that assessment so I sent him a picture.  He still disagrees with me.  He claims that what I see as damage is an optical illusion.  So I asked him to eliminate the optical illusion.
> 
> View attachment 7310


I guess he doesn't know PhotoShop!


----------



## ICE

The first inspection resulted in a correction to manage the bare copper EGC away from aluminum.  Here the workman has removed the modules and is installing lay-in lugs to secure the wire.





It was at the second inspection that I had this picture.  Notice the plumbing vent that was shortened.


----------



## Inspector Gift

More will be revealed


----------



## steveray

PV is more important than plumbing....Duh.....


----------



## Pcinspector1

2018 IRC going to allow the vent below a solar panel to be 2-inches. 

CA code is gonna have to keep up with the times if their goin all solar!


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> 2018 IRC going to allow the vent below a solar panel to be 2-inches.
> 
> CA code is gonna have to keep up with the times if their goin all solar!


California did not adopt the plumbing code portion of the IRC.


----------



## ICE

Correction was written to isolate the neutral from ground due to this being a sub-panel.  There is two of them.


----------



## Joe.B

I write those corrections all of the time. I even make them completely remove that green "jumper" screw. Blows me away that seasoned, licensed, professional companies have been consistently doing it this way for way too long. "I've been doing it this way for 30 years" or "the county lets me do it." Don't care, doesn't make it right.


----------



## ICE

Permit says furnace and AC.  I called the contractor.  He has attitude.  Tells me how he took over from another contractor that #!&^%$ it up.  Gives me grief for asking for pictures.  Well I do everything from my garage and unless you're gonna haul the thing over here...I want pictures.











The last picture is about the duct being supported by a cloth strap.  The strap starts out wide enough to meet code.  Over time it folds up and is not code compliant. I used to turn this stuff down but I lost that battle because the product has a listing as duct strap.

And no, I did not write corrections related to the junction box or cable.  




I delivered some corrections but not all of them.  I would have delivered all of the corrections at one time but because he shorted me on the pictures I don't know what those corrections are....yet.  His attitude is gone.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Could use a bit more insulation?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Is there a furnace shut-off switch nearby?

I see an A/C line set but where's the a-coil? Is there a Pan?

Need more cowbell, I mean pictures!


----------



## ICE

Sewer cap when demolishing a dwelling.


----------



## Inspector Gift

Are they serious??


----------



## tmurray

That's not like any cap I've ever seen.

Is it... Is it tape?


----------



## Beniah Naylor

Flashing tape?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Stop work order and install trench safety fence. Call for reinspect, install the correct sewer line cap, make sure you use primer! 

Is there a charge for a re-inspection?


----------



## ICE

Yes that is tape.  There will be several condominioms built on the lot.  It is not an inspection that I was involved with.  A coworker sent the picture.  If the lateral is large enough for a dozen condos is a question.  But even a temporary seal should at least be a Jem cap.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Norcal

Another disaster.    This thread is a good example of how not to do things.


----------



## Mech

Do you put electrical tape on it or heat shrink tubing?


----------



## Joe.B

ICE said:


> View attachment 7414
> 
> 
> View attachment 7415


I appreciate all of the interesting photos you post of the often "shoddy" work you find. I'm curious though for this one, what exactly is the violation here? Definitely could be one, but I don't see it immediately. Are you complaining about the crimped connection? Looks not-removable to me. and it looks like the actual grounding electrode conductor is one continuous piece, looks big enough, and the armor clad is not even required if that's #6 or larger.


----------



## Joe.B

Norcal said:


> Another disaster.    This thread is a good example of how not to do things.


Disaster? Same question, what is the violation here?


----------



## ICE

Joe.B said:


> I appreciate all of the interesting photos you post of the often "shoddy" work you find. I'm curious though for this one, what exactly is the violation here? Definitely could be one, but I don't see it immediately. Are you complaining about the crimped connection? Looks not-removable to me. and it looks like the actual grounding electrode conductor is one continuous piece, looks big enough, and the armor clad is not even required if that's #6 or larger.


The wire is #4.  The armor shall be bonded at every end.  The wire is subject to physical damage and requires protection no matter what size it is.


----------



## Joe.B

ICE said:


> The wire is #4.  The armor shall be bonded at every end.  The wire is subject to physical damage and requires protection no matter what size it is.


Is that a drive way? Or are you using 250.64 (B)(2) to say that's exposed to physical damage? (2019 CEC) If that's a driveway I'd agree, if it's just a walkway I'd say 250.64 (B)(1) "A 6 AWG or larger copper or aluminum grounding electrode conductor not exposed to physical damage shall be permitted to run along the surface of the building construction without metal covering or protection" would allow this install w/o the protection and therefore if extra protection is added the way it's shown it's not a violation. This comes down to interpretation and opinion, a very grey and sticky area of the code.


----------



## ICE

I am seeing this more often.  I think that they see a button and assume it is GFCI.  Others probably don't know the difference.  Sme see the word "combination" and assume the breaker has both.  I also think that far too many inspectors miss this.



	

		
			
		

		
	
I


----------



## Joe.B

Joe.B said:


> Is that a drive way? Or are you using 250.64 (B)(2) to say that's exposed to physical damage? (2019 CEC) If that's a driveway I'd agree, if it's just a walkway I'd say 250.64 (B)(1) "A 6 AWG or larger copper or aluminum grounding electrode conductor not exposed to physical damage shall be permitted to run along the surface of the building construction without metal covering or protection" would allow this install w/o the protection and therefore if extra protection is added the way it's shown it's not a violation. This comes down to interpretation and opinion, a very grey and sticky area of the code.


Is this me setting a bad example for the rest of us again?


----------



## steveray

I would agree that it is "mostly" along the building construction, so yes, judgment call.....But bonding both ends of the metal "raceway" is not gray at all....250.64E1


----------



## ICE

Joe.B said:


> Is this me setting a bad example for the rest of us again?


Well yes and no.  You are correct with regards to the question of whether protection is required.  It is apparent that the contractor is in the "it needs protection camp". 

I disagree with the contention that "extra" stuff can be provided incorrectly since it is not required to be there.  The reason behind the bonding of every end of ferrous metal raceway that protects a GEC has to do with capacitive coupling.  How to spell it is where my understanding hesitates.  Electric fields inducing a current is for the engineers to explain but suffice it to say the work in the picture is a violation.

A further violation shown is the C-tap.  While the C-tap is legal to use, it is not properly crimped as there are no witness marks of a proprietary crimping tool having been utilized.


----------



## steveray

Great....Now I have to engrave my pliers.....


----------



## Joe.B

ICE said:


> Well yes and no.  You are correct with regards to the question of whether protection is required.  It is apparent that the contractor is in the "it needs protection camp".
> 
> I disagree with the contention that "extra" stuff can be provided incorrectly since it is not required to be there.  The reason behind the bonding of every end of ferrous metal raceway that protects a GEC has to do with capacitive coupling.  How to spell it is where my understanding hesitates.  Electric fields inducing a current is for the engineers to explain but suffice it to say the work in the picture is a violation.
> 
> A further violation shown is the C-tap.  While the C-tap is legal to use, it is not properly crimped as there are no witness marks of a proprietary crimping tool having been utilized.
> 
> View attachment 7420


Cool, some new stuff to look up! Love it. So if the contractor had simply omitted the AC it would have been ok, but since it's there it needs to be installed correctly. I can get with that logic. I'll do my research, but do you know if the capacitive coupling would occur during normal operation, or only when there's a fault? Or a lightning strike? Thanks for explaining.


----------



## Joe.B

steveray said:


> I would agree that it is "mostly" along the building construction, so yes, judgment call.....But bonding both ends of the metal "raceway" is not gray at all....250.64E1


Would you consider the AC a raceway or an enclosure? In my mind a raceway or an enclosure brings up very specific things, AC is not one of them, but I'm open to understanding things differently.


----------



## e hilton

_ as there are no witness marks of a proprietary crimping tool having been utilized._
Do you have a clear picture of a properly crimped dealie?


----------



## ICE

Joe.B said:


> Cool, some new stuff to look up! Love it. So if the contractor had simply omitted the AC it would have been ok, but since it's there it needs to be installed correctly. I can get with that logic. I'll do my research, but do you know if the capacitive coupling would occur during normal operation, or only when there's a fault? Or a lightning strike? Thanks for explaining.


During normal operation the GEC and electrodes see no current.  Only if there is a blast from lightning, or commingling higher voltage lines with medium voltage would there be a significant role to play.  At least that has been explained that way.....but hey now this is the internet and all.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> _ as there are no witness marks of a proprietary crimping tool having been utilized._
> Do you have a clear picture of a properly crimped dealie?


I have over 100 pictures of wrong C-taps and no pictures of proper C-taps.  The Tool is supposed to emboss a number in the witness mark.  That number is supposed to match the die used that is the right die for the size C-tap.  When it is there it is so faint that it is nearly undetectable.  Not all manufacturers have that specific tool either.  The thing to look for is a straight sided rectangular indent and a damn tight crimp.

The first picture comes close.  It looks like a crimper that was fit for the task was used.  There appears to be two crimps as would be expected.  The trouble is that there are four wires when only two are allowed.  Well in all fairness, it's soon to be three wires.





An angry electrician was loose on this one.






Pliers were used.






The last one looks like it had a little bit of both.


----------



## ICE

A problem with virtual inspections pops up when I see something in a picture that raises questions and I have to wait for an answer.  I saw this fitting and now I gotts tah know.


----------



## ICE




----------



## classicT

ICE said:


> View attachment 7450
> 
> 
> View attachment 7451


Contractor: "But it is weather tight!! "


----------



## steveray

What's the hub bub bub?


----------



## Norcal

That Myers type hub certainly is not being used according to it's listing, and I'd almost be willing to bet that hub cost Larry, Curly, & Moe's Electric more money then the proper interchangeable hub.


----------



## ICE

Service entrance conduit.


----------



## ICE

Another inspector has this job.  The panel was mounted over a hole in the exterior stucco wall which is not permitted.  The missing kos have been plugged.  We have a few ways to get the conductors into the new panel....this is not one of them.


----------



## ICE

This panel is mounted with two short lengths of uni-strut.  The uni-strut is mounted directly on the plywood shear wall. While not visible in the pictures, bare wood is exposed through the holes in the uni-strut.


----------



## BJN

ICE said:


> Service entrance conduit.
> 
> View attachment 7462


Never know... maybe they _wanted_ to let water in and eliminate the bonding between the metal parts...


----------



## ICE

BJN said:


> Never know... maybe they _wanted_ to let water in and eliminate the bonding between the metal parts...


Things stay cleaner when water washes through.  This might just be planned obsolescence.


----------



## Norcal

ICE said:


> Things stay cleaner when water washes through.  This might just be planned obsolescence.


Reminds me of a mobile home panel had to swap out, the "installers" did not use a gasket on the panel top hub, early 1990's ITE 100A meter main, water got in & damaged the aluminum buss to the point that they were only getting 120V, was a Sunday afternoon bootleg swap, & I cursed whoever installed it + doing it hot & one mistake was either going do some damage or do me in, due to the fact that there is no overcurrent protection on those conductors.

Rather funny that am admitting about doing unpermitted work on a forum populated by inspectors, plus it had a Smart Meter I that had to pull.


----------



## Beniah Naylor

Speaking of leaking... see this one all the time. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7im9bc9h6hd36kr/IMG_0364.JPG?dl=0


----------



## Beniah Naylor

Raceway between the two enclosures installed crooked, big gap for water to come into.


----------



## ICE

I am not sure what was done with this residential water heater.  I think that I have an idea but the owner did the work and within just a few minutes I determined that this will not be a remote virtual inspection.


----------



## ICE

The same owner installed three mini-split systems.











This pair is within the side-yard setback.  This project has too much grief built in for me to get involved.


----------



## ICE

If you see this ....just say no.





with the cover removed

View attachment IMG_9514.JPG


----------



## ICE

Is it fair to call a contractor unscrupulous when he installed solar on this roof?


----------



## ICE

I don't know what the fitting that they jumped over is.  Do you?  It is produced by ZURN CO.


----------



## Mech

ICE said:


> I don't know what the fitting that they jumped over is.  Do you?  It is produced by ZURN CO.


Pressure reducing valve installed upside down?  The MC cable is blocking the part number.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> If you see this ....just say no.


What is it?


----------



## Norcal

The white ungrounded conductors on the line side of the water heater disco, the use of 3Ø discos, the set screw EMT fittings, the non rain tight EMT fittings, flexible cord used on the mini splits, the list goes on & on.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> What is it?


Inter-system bonding terminal.


----------



## ICE

Mech said:


> Pressure reducing valve installed upside down?  The MC cable is blocking the part number.


Would that require a jumper?


----------



## e hilton

One has to wonder what his reference material was.


----------



## Mech

Mech said:


> Pressure reducing valve installed upside down? The MC cable is blocking the part number.





ICE said:


> Would that require a jumper?



I do not know; I do not do electrical work and I do not know the inner workings of a pressure reducing valve well enough.  If there are rubber seals at the unions, I could see the need for a jumper as there is an interruption of the metal piping / grounding pathway.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

I bet there's a trail of these things all the way back to the store.


----------



## MtnArch

ICE said:


> View attachment 7506
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 7507
> 
> 
> I bet there's a trail of these things all the way back to the store.


Careful .. those things breed like bunnies!   ;-)


----------



## Beniah Naylor

Picture at the top of the page, did someone forget some nuts on their anchor bolts? I can't tell what the picture is.


----------



## Norcal

Beniah Naylor said:


> Picture at the top of the page, did someone forget some nuts on their anchor bolts? I can't tell what the picture is.



That's what it looks like to me.


----------



## Paul Sweet

Maybe the bolt doesn't project far enough above the plate for the threads to catch once a washer is installed?


----------



## ICE

Paul Sweet said:


> Maybe the bolt doesn't project far enough above the plate for the threads to catch once a washer is installed?


I am not sure about there being enough bolt above the plate...I am sure that there is a whole lot of hole for the bolt.  The hole is permitted to be 1/16" larger than the bolt.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> .  The hole is permitted to be 1/16" larger than the bolt.


Thats why they sell the large square washers.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Thats why they sell the large square washers.


And that's why I ask them to remove a few large square washers.


----------



## Beniah Naylor

ICE said:


> I am not sure about there being enough bolt above the plate...I am sure that there is a whole lot of hole for the bolt.  The hole is permitted to be 1/16" larger than the bolt.


California rule? Seismic?


----------



## ICE

It's the year of the ox.


----------



## ICE

We landed a space craft on Mars and here is a picture to prove it.


----------



## ICE

Contractor did an entire dwelling re-pipe with stainless steel pipe and fittings.  I have never seen such a thing.


----------



## steveray

I know there are a bunch of 2024 code proposals around stainless pipe....


----------



## classicT

ICE said:


> Contractor did an entire dwelling re-pipe with stainless steel pipe and fittings.  I have never seen such a thing.
> 
> View attachment 7524
> 
> 
> View attachment 7525
> 
> 
> View attachment 7526
> 
> View attachment 7527


Why the TPR on the supply piping?


----------



## mtlogcabin

P2903.3.1 Maximum pressure.
The static water pressure shall be not greater than 80 psi (551 kPa). Where the main pressure exceeds 80 psi (551 kPa), an approved pressure-reducing valve conforming to ASSE 1003 or CSA B356 shall be installed on the domestic water branch main or riser at the connection to the water service pipe.

We have some areas in the city that the operating pressure is 90 to 95 PSI


----------



## classicT

mtlogcabin said:


> P2903.3.1 Maximum pressure.
> The static water pressure shall be not greater than 80 psi (551 kPa). Where the main pressure exceeds 80 psi (551 kPa), an approved pressure-reducing valve conforming to ASSE 1003 or CSA B356 shall be installed on the domestic water branch main or riser at the connection to the water service pipe.
> 
> We have some areas in the city that the operating pressure is 90 to 95 PSI


The picture has a TPR-valve one would find on a water heater, not a conventional pressure reducing valve. It even has the BTU limits on it.


----------



## e hilton

Acid rain must finally be a real problem in southern calif.


----------



## Joe.B

You would think that if he can afford all of that stainless steel piping he could afford the proper pressure reducer...


----------



## ICE

classicT said:


> The picture has a TPR-valve one would find on a water heater, not a conventional pressure reducing valve. It even has the BTU limits on it.
> 
> View attachment 7529


The valve may be related to a water heater that has a Watts 210.


----------



## classicT

ICE said:


> The valve may be related to a water heater that has a Watts 210.


New to me.... here is some info to those who are not familiar.

https://waterheatersonly.com/the-watts-210-automatic-gas-shutoff-valve/


----------



## Pcinspector1

That copper clamp may be an issue when in contact with stainless steel piping? Just asking?


----------



## ICE

classicT said:


> New to me.... here is some info to those who are not familiar.
> 
> https://waterheatersonly.com/the-watts-210-automatic-gas-shutoff-valve/


The water heater in the picture is a code violation.  Not more than one flexible appliance connector is permitted.  From the Watts to the controls is always hard pipe.


----------



## ICE

What did they suppose that I would think about this?


----------



## MtnArch

ICE said:


> What did they suppose that I would think about this?
> 
> 
> View attachment 7535
> 
> 
> View attachment 7536


That everything was so "purdy"!


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

I am not sure what this is all about.  I do know that an extensive addition was built with an indoor swimming pool on the second floor.  There is a 400 amp service and several sub-panels.  I was asked to inspect a solar project when they sent this picture.  I found that the permits for the addition are still listed as open when I look at the computer records....so naturally I declined to inspect the solar until the roof that it's on has has passed a final inspection.  The contractor is adamant that the previous inspector approved everything related to the addition. That inspector concurred so I declined to inspect the solar because that inspector concurred.


----------



## e hilton

I wish you would learn to speak english.  I understand why you declined to pass the array with the roof permit open, but why did you refuse when you learned the other inspector passed the roof?   Are you just waiting for him to close that permit?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Are you just waiting for him to close that permit?


Ya...Ya, that’s the ticket.

I didn’t decline to pass the array, I declined to inspect the array.  The picture shows some electrical hardware that’s been cobbled together and an inspector approved it.  There’s a 400amp service panel, one 200amp panel and two 100amp panels.  There’s a second floor indoor pool.  There’s an elevator.  There’s several furnaces.

I met the contractor early in the project.  I know the inspector that approved the final inspection...including the ground clamp.

I don’t want my name on any part of it.


----------



## e hilton

I posit that declining to inspect the array had the same affect as not approving it.  I guess your manager is going to assign a different inspector?   Someone with lower standards?


----------



## Rick18071

Looks like their using a garden hose to bond the metal pipe. What's wrong with that? They just need to keep the hose filled with water. Electricity can go through water. But I'm not sure if the connector is approved for it.


----------



## Rick18071

Went to do a inspection at a house that only had a permit for a roof repair. I suspected something wasn't right. I googled the address back at the office and found the lower (before) photo.






Had to post a stop construction order. The foundation is falling apart too.


----------



## ICE

Rick18071 said:


> Went to do a inspection at a house that only had a permit for a roof repair. I suspected something wasn't right. I googled the address back at the office and found the lower (before) photo.
> 
> 
> View attachment 7547
> View attachment 7548
> 
> 
> Had to post a stop construction order. The foundation is falling apart too.


They missed the Z-Bar on the siding.


----------



## steveray

ICE said:


> They missed the Z-Bar on the siding.


Once the mold and moss takes hold it will waterproof itself....Like wrapping a sprinkler leak in a salty rag...


----------



## Rick18071

ICE said:


> They missed the Z-Bar on the siding.


That is probably one of the least problems with this house. Looks like they tried to fix the foundation and tried to hide it on the inside but is starting to crumble anyway. like this on two sides.
View attachment 7553

View attachment 7555

The house is almost finished with only a roof and deck permit and no inspections at all. New electric and plumbing too. Deck all wrong.  New electrical baseboard heaters with receptacles above them. Who knows what's behind the new drywall.  I can see the new joists in the basement ceiling, they painted them to hide it. Of course almost everything above these joists is probably new.
 Looks like they bought the one story house for $25,000 now it's listed for sale at this link for a two story for $225,000 house. The BCO will probably condemn it to be torn down. They sure wasted a lot of money on this.


			https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/537-Clearview-Dr-Long-Pond-PA-18334/67937935_zpid/


----------



## ICE

Rick18071 said:


> That is probably one of the least problems with this house. Looks like they tried to fix the foundation and tried to hide it on the inside but is starting to crumble anyway. like this on two sides.
> View attachment 7553
> 
> View attachment 7555
> 
> The house is almost finished with only a roof and deck permit and no inspections at all. New electric and plumbing too. Deck all wrong.  New electrical baseboard heaters with receptacles above them. Who knows what's behind the new drywall.  I can see the new joists in the basement ceiling, they painted them to hide it. Of course almost everything above these joists is probably new.
> Looks like they bought the one story house for $25,000 now it's listed for sale at this link for a two story for $225,000 house. The BCO will probably condemn it to be torn down. They sure wasted a lot of money on this.
> 
> 
> https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/537-Clearview-Dr-Long-Pond-PA-18334/67937935_zpid/


Many receptacles are missing....the shower stall appears to be too small...but hey now there's a pool indoors and out with a swimming hole that comes with fish.  The price is up to $290,000 for a quick sale.


----------



## e hilton

Looks like they had no clue what they were doing.  Learned all they know from hgtv.  They really should have staged the furniture better for the pictures.


----------



## Rick18071

i don't have time to say all the things that were wrong even without seeing inside the walls and ceilings. The deck would be a great example of how not to build a deck, they even used those Home Depot deck blocks. By the way when I was there and I thought it was just a roof repair the rafters were undersized.

They were planing to have a open house this weekend. That would be interesting with a stop work order posted on the house.

Ice, do I beat you with the worst inspection?


----------



## e hilton

Rick18071 said:


> Ice, do I beat you with the worst inspection?


No because you don’t have pictures of specific fails, with sarcastic captions.


----------



## ICE

Rick18071 said:


> Ice, do I beat you with the worst inspection?


Well Rick it's at least a tie for first place.....but I've got second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth..........


----------



## ICE

22 models at $22,000.00 and they did this.


----------



## Rick18071

ICE, yous always show us a lot of screw ups like this on tile roofs. We never have roofs like this. Just for curiosity sake show me one that was done the right way.


----------



## ICE

Well Rick that's a picture that I don't have.  I do have a sample of what works.  The lead flashing will mold to the tile and can be painted.  The top can be cut to the right size for a variety of conduits and plumbing vents.  There are many companies making similar products.

I am curious as to why you don't have tile roofs.










						Residential Lead Base Pipe Flashing
					

DETAILS:  varying sizes can accommodate penetrations from 1/4




					pipebootexpress.com


----------



## Rick18071

I see you need to bend the flashing to make it fit.
Maybe we don't have tile roofs because of snow? You can damage the tiles when shoveling off excessive snow? Ice damming could lift the tiles and damage them? Maybe someone else knows better.


----------



## fatboy

In my neck of the woods, No CO, (north of the Denver metro area), I have seen less than a half dozen tile roofs put on in 24 yrs. Hailstorms maybe?


----------



## tmurray

What are tile roofs?

Closest I've got are the metal panel roofs that are made to look like tile.


----------



## steveray

tmurray said:


> What are tile roofs?
> 
> Closest I've got are the metal panel roofs that are made to look like tile.


Those are the roofs you see on vacation.....


----------



## Paul Sweet

"I am curious as to why you don't have tile roofs."

The Eastern US doesn't have the same Spanish architectural influence that the Southwest does.  Tile is way more expensive than most people can afford, and those who can afford it here in the east use slate more often than tile.


----------



## ICE

It is in a garage. There was a correction to drain the T&P to the exterior.


----------



## Mech

Looks like another 8 inches should do it.

I can't make out the pitch on the pipe.  Is it flat?


----------



## Joe.B

ICE, was that the only correction on that water heater?


----------



## ICE

Joe.B said:


> ICE, was that the only correction on that water heater?


I can't say for sure because it came from another inspector.


----------



## Joe.B

ICE said:


> I can't say for sure because it came from another inspector.


Do you see any other violations in this photo you shared?


----------



## e hilton

Does a bare bulb that low on the wall need a guard?


----------



## Joe.B

e hilton said:


> Does a bare bulb that low on the wall need a guard?


That could be, not what I was seeing though. I see a partial violation that I see a lot in the field. My last building official said I didn't need to make it a correction as long as the other parts are in order. We'll see what the next one says...


----------



## Mech

Joe B. - No air gap provided?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Does a bare bulb that low on the wall need a guard?


Not a bad idea.  I would definitely say that it needs one.


Joe.B said:


> Do you see any other violations in this photo you shared?


Yes


----------



## ICE

Mech said:


> Joe B. - No air gap provided?


----------



## Joe.B

Sediment trap location. 2019 CPC1212.9 & CMC1312.9 "...a sediment trap shall be installed downstream of the appliance shutoff valve as close to the appliance as practical, _but before the flex connector_..." Almost always see them installed the way it's shown here and the last BO said he didn't care as long as there was one and it's installed after the shutoff valve. I don't see the harm in having the flex connector first but technically it's a code violation. 2010 and 2013 codes don't mention the flexible connector, added in 2016 cycle.

Anybody else enforce this or have any idea why it was added? Do you see any harm in the sediment trap being after the flexible connector?


----------



## Paul Sweet

Is this CPVC, or does California allow PVC for the relief valve discharge?


----------



## ICE

Paul Sweet said:


> Is this CPVC, or does California allow PVC for the relief valve discharge?


We do not allow PVC.  We would not permit this configuration with the T&P stuck into the smitty drain pipe.

As to the sediment trap location....I was not aware of the "before the flex" code.  Could it be that dirt might settle out in the corrugations like a sluice?


----------



## Joe.B

ICE said:


> We do not allow PVC.  We would not permit this configuration with the T&P stuck into the smitty drain pipe.
> 
> As to the sediment trap location....I was not aware of the "before the flex" code.  Could it be that dirt might settle out in the corrugations like a sluice?


That was my thought, if the sediment trap is first (and installed properly) then it would allow sediment to collect at a maintainable point. If the flexible connector is doing the catching, like a sluice box, then it's not maintainable. I guess you could just replace the flexible connector. I also wonder if sediments would build up and restrict flow. Now the bigger question, ever heard of anybody actually opening up the sediment trap to clean it out? If so, did they find anything collected there? The only person I've ever heard say they did that was an HVAC guy who checks his own trap at home once a year and has never found anything in there. He said he's never checked another one.


----------



## Mech

Is the flexible connector any different than CSST for collecting debris?


----------



## Joe.B

Mech said:


> Is the flexible connector any different than CSST for collecting debris?


They are probably functionally the same, although the flexible connectors are usually smaller in diameter, so they could be more likely to clog?


----------



## ICE

It went from this:






To this:




I provided a link to a roof jack that has a lead base and a pick your size rubber boot.  The contractor sent this picture.  I sent back "No".  The peermit has a valuation showing $1000 per module and this is as good as it gets.  I expect to hear from a supervisor over the one word reply.  They should be pleased that I stuck to one word.

Update: April 5
Close enough to correct.


----------



## Norcal

That mastic will leak soon anyway without any reinforcement, the lead flashing would fix the issue & not look like Bozo the clown did it. Looks like the contractor is trying to do anything except a professional job.


----------



## ICE

This was sent to me by a coworker.  The picture shows two lugs under one screw.  This is in an Eaton 200 amp disconnect.  The disconnect label calls for a DS200GK.  My initial reaction was that the configuration is unorthadox. Then I googled the part #.  The kit is two lugs and one screw.




Click here for a link.


----------



## ICE




----------



## BJN

Did he chew the insulation off with his teeth? Those aluminum strands didn’t stand a chance.
Tough electrician...


----------



## Rick18071

No goop on the al wire


----------



## Beniah Naylor

Rick18071 said:


> No goop on the al wire


How do you enforce that? If the terminal is labled for aluminium, and you followed manufacturers instructions, that is all that is required by 2017 NEC 110.14. 
Is there a manufacturers requirement that would make 110.3 (B) apply? Local amendment?


----------



## Norcal

Rick18071 said:


> No goop on the al wire


Not required unless manufacturers instructions call for it. That being said I use it.


----------



## Paul Sweet

I always specify conductive paste for connections of aluminum wiring, and I think a lot of engineers also specify it.


----------



## steveray

Paul Sweet said:


> I always specify conductive paste for connections of aluminum wiring, and I think a lot of engineers and electricians also eat it.


Fixed it....LOL! Happy Friday!


----------



## Norcal

Paul Sweet said:


> I always specify conductive paste for connections of aluminum wiring, and I think a lot of engineers also specify it.



There is a bit of difference between job specs & code requirements, job specs have be complied with on that job, code requirements have to be followed on every job they apply to.


----------



## fatboy

That is a butcher job on the stripping......either a rookie, or a hack, or both!


----------



## ICE

A solar contractor claims to have replaced a 125 amp main breaker with a 100 amp main breaker in order to stay within the 120% rule with 30 amps of solar.
There is no panel label.  There is four different manufacture's circuit breakers installed. The breakers installed by the solar co. do not appear to be new.  The bus looks like it has something going on that I am not sure about.


----------



## fatboy

Almost looks like it was underwater at some time....


----------



## Norcal

The Siemens breakers have no business in there unless there is paperwork that Siemens is UL classified to be used in that panel which is either Challenger, or a Westinghouse, Cutler-Hammer BR, Current Eaton BR is marked as BR120, or has C120, for example, for use in either BR or Challenger panels, all of them are Challenger design interiors, which is one of the reasons I call them "Zinsco II".

Is that panel near a coastal area, or chemicals stored nearby? That would be a couple of reasons for the corrosion, but not the only ones.


The whole UL listed vs UL classified thing is about clear as mud, IMO, they either need to be listed for the panels or made non interchangeable as it is not simple to determine if a competitive make can be used in a panel, made even more difficult because of mergers, & name changes of manufacturers & brands.


----------



## Norcal

Since can't edit, if anyone is interested, can zoom in on that Eaton 2-pole 30A breaker on the bottom, it is marked as BR230 & C230.


----------



## fatboy

FYI-Editing is a feature that you get when you pay  to become a sawhorse. Just sayin......


----------



## Norcal

fatboy said:


> FYI-Editing is a feature that you get when you pay  to become a sawhorse. Just sayin......


It's something I really need to consider.


----------



## ICE

Residential service panel upgrade.


----------



## steveray

aaaawwwww....it's like the MC Escher of electricity...I cant tell where it starts and ends....


----------



## Rick18071

I guess they herd that you fail it if they just put it over the old panel.


----------



## e hilton

Love the flex tied to the rebar with old christmas tree lights.


----------



## ICE

Sometimes no matter what they did it's an improvement.


----------



## Norcal

So Cal Edison I doubt will be amused, and I hope you were not either.


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> So Cal Edison I doubt will be amused, and I hope you were not either.


I doubt that Edison would have a problem with this.  The picture came from another inspector.  We both got a good laugh out of it.  He said that the contractor was a no show.  He plans on meeting the contractor and asking him to open up the old enclosure.


----------



## e hilton

How does the contractor propose to secure the old meter opening?  Hopefully something better than a piece of cardboard.


----------



## Norcal

e hilton said:


> How does the contractor propose to secure the old meter opening?  Hopefully something better than a piece of cardboard.



Clear meter blanking covers are available, I just can't see any reason why that abortion should be allowed.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> How does the contractor propose to secure the old meter opening?  Hopefully something better than a piece of cardboard.


We require a metal meter blank.  Some inspectors will not allow any panel enclosure to be converted to a junction box. I am mostly okay with the conversion if the existing enclosure is surface mounted and can drain water.  This setup is a lot of work to be so completely wrong.


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for an electric service panel upgrade.  The first picture was how it was presented.  I exclaimed that the stucco needs to be removed for inspection.





The contractor exclaimed, "I have a picture from before the stucco was finished".  He sent this next picture.


----------



## tmurray

He had a photo from before the stucco was finished. Meaning he knew it was a required inspection, he was just hoping not to get called out on it.


----------



## my250r11

So is that panel made with tabs to install in the stucco ?


----------



## e hilton

my250r11 said:


> So is that panel made with tabs to install in the stucco ?


Looks like it.  There is a label on each side that you can zoom in and read, mentions putting the building paper over the flange.


----------



## Norcal

my250r11 said:


> So is that panel made with tabs to install in the stucco ?




It's a semi-flush mount panel, so yes


----------



## steveray

Norcal said:


> It's a semi-flush mount panel, so yes


Most of the work in ICE's neighborhood is "full flush"....


----------



## my250r11

our elec. insp. is always having issue with panels in stucco walls. Not sure why the contractors don't use panels like that here. Maybe price or they just don't know. If is listed to use that way, it would be a great alterative.


----------



## Norcal

Most meter/main panels are semi-flush. Check the catalogs if you doubt me.


----------



## ICE

We have particular requirements for roofing material with regards to solar heat gain.  As a result of that we can't approve a sheathing inspection unless the material is verified to match the permit.  I only do virtual inspections and therfore I request an batch of pictures, one of which is the shingle bundle label.  The guide that I send to the contractor has a list if pictures and although the label is mentioned, I neglected to include the proviso that the material has to be at the site.  This has not been an issue for the fourteen months that I have been using the guide until now.


----------



## e hilton

Sounds like an honest oversight.  I would approve the sheathing inspection (assuming all else is right) and tell the contractor to call back and show a picture of the shingles on site before starting installation.


----------



## ICE

With virtual inspections there is a great deal of latitude built in.  The contractor can take out a permit and finish the job before calling for any inspection.  Then he requests a sheathing inspection....sends the pictures and passes sheathing inspection.  He then requests a final inspection...sends the pictures and passes the final inspection.  

The hope is that they can at least do the least.


----------



## Pcinspector1

So maybe the contractor has to wait on the Photomat to get his pictures before he can get them to you? 

Next you'll want your hamburger hot when you pull up to the window!

You can't have it both ways, ICE


----------



## ICE

I had a second request for a re-roof final inspection on 4-27-21.  The following is a correction that I wrote on 4-20-21:

_The sheathing inspection was scheduled on 4-16-21 with no response from the contractor.  It is now 4-20-21 and a batch of pictures showing a completed roof has been sent.  Missing is evidence that the sheathing passed inspection.  The pictures of the shingle bundle show a material that is not listed on the permit.  There is no picture of a pitch gauge and several pictures of the completed roof have not been included.   There are pictures of shingle bundles resting on an existing rock roof. There is no video of the smoke and CO alarms.

All of this causes me to question if the pictures are of the correct project.  I have included another copy of the re-roof guide and smoke alarm handout.  Please follow the guide for providing pictures and a video._

Today the contractor explained that a confederate sent the wrong batch of pictures on 4-20-21.  he went on the say that the guide that I sent is confusing to the point that he understood it to mean that a sheathing inspection is not required until the roofing has been installed.  The knowledge that he is a roofer works in his favor....however, blaming his confusion on me does not help his case.  It is difficult to get worked up over a re-roof, I must say,


----------



## ICE

Swimming pool perimeter bonding to wire mesh and a fence.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

The job is a re-roof.






The vent is on the roof.  They provided several pictures of the vent.  I assume that the vent will be reused.





And I was correct in my assumption.  In their defense, the tile was reused and only the underlayment was replaced.  But even with that.....


----------



## ICE

The job is an electric service panel upgrade.  This is supposedly a water pipe bond.  Looks more like an ineffective gas pipe bond.


----------



## e hilton

Blue paint is conductive but beige paint is not.  It’s in the book, you can look it up.


----------



## JCraver

ICE - come get these guys and drag them back to Cali please.  I don't have time for this.....


----------



## Norcal

Is that indoor panel installed outdoors?  If so goes with using a Zinsco II  (Eaton BR) panel, the rest does not look any better.


----------



## Mech

I hope that twisty-tie sticking out the front is not live.


----------



## JCraver

Norcal said:


> Is that indoor panel installed outdoors?  If so goes with using a Zinsco II  (Eaton BR) panel, the rest does not look any better.



Yes



Mech said:


> I hope that twisty-tie sticking out the front is not live.




It's live


----------



## ICE

Solar entrepreneurs wish to pass inspection but are not willing to invest in that effort.  The workman lack the tools and training required to succeed.






This is the only picture of the GEC connection to a water pipe.  That is proof enough that I am not supposed to care.


----------



## ICE

I don't know if they can't read or if they just choose not to.


----------



## ICE

So now I am left to wonder why.


----------



## ICE

Giving 100%


----------



## ICE

The meter is for an ADU.  The ADU is a two story attached addition to the dwelling. The conduit wraps around the building for about 40' where it enters a wall and ends at a panel.  That panel did not have a main disconnect and it did have a dozen circuits.

I wrote a correction that stated that there shall be a meter/main be installed rather than meter enclosure.  My thinking was that the 40' of conductor between the meter and the panel requires over-current protection.  But then I got to wondering about that and I could not find a code to back that up.

As it turns out, Edison will not allow a meter without a main breaker.  So I was wrong and right at the same time.


----------



## Norcal

By the NEC the SE conductors are on the outside of the building so they are OK, but am going to have to look that up to verify, but I have to agree with you, and be glad for some PoCo rules, I do not like unprotected conductors any longer then absolutely necessary. Also be glad PoCo rules do not allow SE cable.  They wasted a lot of money on 2" pipe when 1 1/4" is fine for 100A,  not going to condemn them for the 2" mast since some PoCo's  have a minimum size for a mast, SMUD (Sacramento area) has 1 1/2" minimum, PG&E is 1 1/4", assume that SCE is 2".

The install looks like crap, with the strut attached to the window trim, limited access to the LB cover, raking the nylon covering of the THWN as it was pulled, but that will fall off after being in the sun a while. The first set of pics show another install that won't win any awards either.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> View attachment 7939


Looks like the breakers are badly unbalanced ... no?


----------



## ICE

Huge sinkhole threatens to swallow Mexican home
					

A giant sinkhole that was expanding by dozens of meters each day has alarmed residents in a rural area of central Mexico where it was threatening to swallow a house.




					www.yahoo.com


----------



## fatboy

YIKES! Don't think I would hang out and wait for it.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> Huge sinkhole threatens to swallow Mexican home
> 
> 
> A giant sinkhole that was expanding by dozens of meters each day has alarmed residents in a rural area of central Mexico where it was threatening to swallow a house.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 7955


I also saw that online and I wondered what the what the white spots are. I'm guessing they are where they did some core drilling to try to determine the


----------



## e hilton

Market it as a lakefront property.


----------



## Norcal

e hilton said:


> Market it as a lakefront property.


More like a pond. LOL!


----------



## ICE

Service panel upgrade.


----------



## ICE

First inspection for a rewire and a service panel upgrade.  There was no AFCI protection.  Licensed electrical contractor.





At a subsequent inspection the AFCI has been installed.  The service panel was okay at that point but there was no access to the dwelling to inspect what went on with the rewire.






It is now a month later and there is access to the inside.  The AFCI protection has been removed.




The contractor stated that the refrigerator and garbage disposal were tripping the AFCI breaker so he replaced the AFCI breakers with standard breakers.  I made myself clear as to what I think of him.


----------



## ICE

The median price of a home in this neighborhood is just under $2 million.  A duly licensed contractor built this.


----------



## Joe.B

Was it engineered with stamped plans? I doubt it, but I've been surprised before.


----------



## e hilton

Is there some ecological restriction to putting posts on the slope?   Is it overhanging an easement?


----------



## Rick18071

ICE said:


> First inspection for a rewire and a service panel upgrade.  There was no AFCI protection.  Licensed electrical contractor.
> 
> View attachment 7967
> 
> 
> 
> At a subsequent inspection the AFCI has been installed.  The service panel was okay at that point but there was no access to the dwelling to inspect what went on with the rewire.
> 
> 
> View attachment 7968
> 
> 
> 
> It is now a month later and there is access to the inside.  The AFCI protection has been removed.
> 
> View attachment 7969
> 
> 
> The contractor stated that the refrigerator and garbage disposal were tripping the AFCI breaker so he replaced the AFCI breakers with standard breakers.  I made myself clear as to what I think of him.



I have seen houses that had the arc faults taken out after the final inspection to be used on a different job. I also seen the same thing with the accessible exit signs with braille.


----------



## Norcal

Rick18071 said:


> I have seen houses that had the arc faults taken out after the final inspection to be used on a different job. I also seen the same thing with the accessible exit signs with braille.


While I think AFCI's unlike GFCI's are snake oil, code is code & they need to be be there,  also heard of removing the rebar after the inspection but before the pour, that one would be a bit harder to catch, unless they were caught in the act, as they should. That would be a expensive thing to fix.


----------



## Rick18071

Norcal said:


> While I think AFCI's unlike GFCI's are snake oil, code is code & they need to be be there,  also heard of removing the rebar after the inspection but before the pour, that one would be a bit harder to catch, unless they were caught in the act, as they should. That would be a expensive thing to fix.


I only saw this when the arc-faults have been removed when another permit has been issued for the same house and I don't have any way to make them put the arc-faults back. No permit is required to replace breakers.


----------



## ICE

Rick18071 said:


> I only saw this when the arc-faults have been removed when another permit has been issued for the same house and I don't have any way to make them put the arc-faults back. No permit is required to replace breakers.


If I have approved a service panel upgrade that held AFCI breakers and then I encounter the same service panel upgrade with the AFCI breakers replaced with standard breakers....the fat lady is signing her heart out.


----------



## JPohling

expensive firewood


----------



## steveray

But I saw it on HGTV


----------



## ICE

This was in video that I received for smoke and CO alarms.  On 6-24-21


----------



## MtnArch

ICE said:


> This was in video that I received for smoke and CO alarms.  On 6-24-21
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 8019


Haven't you heard of celebrating Christmas in July?!?!?   ;-)


----------



## Joe.B

Fake tree I assume. If it were real there would be nothing but sticks with a pile of needles on the floor. Supposedly they are "fire resistant" or something like that, still not something I would want in my house for more than a few weeks.


----------



## ICE

Licensed contractor .... electric service panel upgrade.  There is a new 200 amp semi-flush panel.  That panel has a 60 amp breaker that is labeled "sub-panel".  I asked the electrician about the sub-panel.  He was clueless. He said that he didn't look at it because it was not a part of his scope of work.  I hear that a lot. So I asked him to find it and show me. It is now part of his scope of work.


----------



## Norcal

Unless that Zinsco panel has a isolated neutral, most if not all have a factory bonded neutral, there is no way to use it for anything other then service equipment, use as a subpanel is not code compliant, that Zinsco panel is probably 60 + years old too, back in the days when they had plated copper bus bars, so not quite as bad as the later ones with aluminum bus, still time to go.


----------



## Norcal

Forgot to add the 30A twin breaker that looks to serve receptacles at the top marked " plugs room 1, plugs room 2, washer".


----------



## ICE

The new scope of work will include a new sub-panel.  There is no record of a permit for a service upgrade that took place when this panel became a sub-panel.      So now the code for AFCI protection is in play.  The contractor does mostly solar and the plan is to install 70 panels on a roof that already has 14 panels.  This dwelling will be smothered in solar.

The solar work has not begun and I haven’t seen the plans.  There are old building permits to add 800 square feet of bedrooms and bathrooms.  Chances are that there is also an extra kitchen. They requested a virtual inspection.  Suspicious enough for me to send an inspector to do an in person inspection.


----------



## Norcal

If they can change out the panel without adding more then 6' of conductor then no AFCI's required, unless they add receptacles, or circuits 212.12(D) exception 2017


----------



## Norcal

It posted on me before I could finish, 2017 NEC.


----------



## ICE

The exception does not mention receptacles specifically.  The next code cycle will give some relief to the six foot rule.  Excluding conductor that is entirely within an enclosure, cabinet, or junction box makes sense but begs the question, why was a raceway between those not included?


2017 NEC
_Exception: AFCI protection shall not be required where the extension of the existing conductors is *not more than 1.8 m (6 ft)* and does not include any additional *outlets* or _*devices.*

2020 NEC
_Exception: AFCI protection shall not be required where the extension of the existing branch circuit conductors is not more than 1.8 m (6 ft) and does not include any additional outlets or devices, other than splicing devices. _*This measurement shall not include the conductors inside an enclosure, cabinet, or junction box.*


----------



## ICE

Owner builder permit.  Missing the tunnel kit over the service nentrance conductors and added a ground bus where it can't be located. Obvious re-wire without AFCI protection.


----------



## Beniah Naylor

Why can't the ground bar be there? I hadn't heard of that violation. Is it considered obstructed by the other wiring?


----------



## ICE

The permit was issued to an absentee owner/builder.  That was a mistake.  And then it got worse.

This is the correction slip for this job.  

16823 @$& )!)+% was inspected for an electric service panel upgrade on 7-1-21 with the following result.

1  The tunnel kit that shields the service entrance conductors has not been installed.

2  A ground bus has been added and placed where it would interfere with the tunnel kit.  Remove the added ground bus and land all grounds on the bus that was provided by the manufacturer.

3  Open the cover that is below the meter and provide pictures.

4  Provide pictures of the mounting flanges.

5  Provide pictures of the cable fittings below the enclosure.

6  Provide pictures looking down at the top of the enclosure.

7  Provide pictures of the roof jack flashing.

8  Provide a picture of the jumper wire at the water heater.

9 Provide a picture of the connection of the GEC to the water main within five feet of where it enters the building.  That applies to metal water mains.  If the water main is plastic, provide a picture.

10  Raise the armor protected GEC 2" above the ground.

11 Place a structure strap at the wall top plates.  The strap shall be long enough to provide ten 1.5" long 10d nails or #10 Simpson SDS screws past each side of the damage.  The damage being the holes drilled for the conduits.

12  Seal the wall top plates with approved fire-block caulk.

13  Obtain a permit for the receptacles located below the panel.

14  Install in use cover for the receptacle4s.

15  The receptacles shall be GFCI, Tamper Resistant and Weather Resistant.

16 There is obvious signs of a rewire.  That involves junction boxes and wiring in an attic.  Provide pictures of all of that.  Open the junction boxes and show the splices and grounding.

17  AFCI protection is required per the CEC.

18  Obtain a mechanical permit for the range hood.

19  Label the circuit breakers and provide pictures.

20 Identify the conductors that land on the 50 amp breaker.  Those conductors shall be rerouted so that they do not interfere with the tunnel kit.

21  A dwelling re-wire requires a permit.

22  Is there some reason that you thought that it's a good idea to do electrical work?

23  Back off the lock ring on the service entrance conduit hub.  Show that there is no intact knockout ring.  If a knockout ring is present, install a bonding bushing.  The bonding jumper shall be #4 awg.


----------



## e hilton

#2 … did they install the ground bus themselves?  I dont see one provided by the manufacturer.  
#22 … you didnt really include that on the report.  Or did you?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> #2 … did they install the ground bus themselves?  I dont see one provided by the manufacturer.
> #22 … you didnt really include that on the report.  Or did you?


They did install the ground bus and I did include #22.

The owner is not supposed to have an owner builder permit unless the owner lives there.  This is sisters that inherited the property and are dolling it up...probably for a sale....or they might keep it as a rental....it is currently a rental.

Why a permit technician issued an electrical permit escapes me.  The permit includes a 200 amp service panel, a kitchen range hood, garbage disposal and a clothes washer.  No other permits.  These deals never turn out well.  There is most likely a lot of work being done/completed.

The fact that someone decided to do the work with a profound lack of knowledge is an insult.  An insult to the people that took the time and put out the effort to learn the trade as well as the inspector.

It's like this: They fling shlt against the wall and I will clean up that shlt that doesn't stick.  Then they fling more shlt....and on it goes.


----------



## ICE

Solar entrepreneur doing a service panel upgrade.  The way I do a virtual inspection requires that they send me many pictures before I contact them for a live stream.

This job involved 12 solar panels, a storage battery with a load center and a main panel upgrade.  I received 100 pictures from several separate projects.  I didn't catch the mistake until I had written corrections for ten minutes. The office contact for the slightly, skilled workmen denied that there were extraneous photos.  He got a little pissy about it.

This was all back and forth by emails.  I informed him that a lack of credibility does not allow a virtual inspection.  To which he replied that I have insulted him by calling him a liar and a cheat.  He let me know that he would bring this to the attention of the building official.  I let him know that those were his words and the building official was BCC on all of the emails.

Even with 100 pictures there is still a great many that were not sent. I was tempted to write corrections for all of it and let him sort it out.  But instead of that he is on the ignore list.


----------



## Norcal

The lack of a locknut & bushing is a nice touch in addition to the cockeyed conduit, but it is a Zinsco II panel so crap work dovetails with a crappy panel, The Eaton BR caters to the same market that Zinsco catered to, combined with the Challenger (Zinsco successor) interiors, that is why I call the BR panels "Zinsco II". Did they use a Myers hub for the armored GEC? LOL! If they did.


----------



## ICE

3-2/0 service entrance conductors were passed through that offset.  I do not know if it is 1.5 or 2 inch.  The worker has a magic-marker for important notes.


----------



## ICE

That Enphase battery is just over 12" thick.  Would you write a working space correction for the fused disconnect?  How about a working space violation for the garage door which is not 36" from the face of anything?


----------



## steveray

Yes and  yes....Especially for new/ added equipment...


----------



## RBK

What's the garage door height?  I thought working space height was 6.5' or height of equipment, whichever is greater.  If the door and track are above that, it doesn't matter if they are within 36".  It's possible that the vertical track on the right is within the working space for the far right panel, but that's a stretch, and depends on where you measure the minimum 30" width.  As for the disconnect, the battery probably extends a bit more than the allowed 6" beyond the face of disconnect, but not by much.  I think it meets the intent (access for service, maintenance, etc.), if not the letter of the code.


----------



## ICE

110.26(A)(3)

(3) height of Working Space. The work space shall be clear and extend from the grade, floor, or platform to a height of 2.0 m (61⁄2 ft) or the height of the equipment, whichever is greater. Within the height requirements of this section, other equipment that is associated with the electrical installation and is located above or below the electrical equipment shall be permitted to extend not more than 150 mm (6 in.) beyond the front of the electrical equipment.

Exception No. 1: In existing dwelling units, service equip- ment or panelboards that do not exceed 200 amperes shall be permitted in spaces where the height of the working space is less than 2.0 m (61⁄2 ft).

Exception No. 2: Meters that are installed in meter sockets shall be permitted to extend beyond the other equipment. The meter socket shall be required to follow the rules of this section.

Exception No. 3: On battery systems mounted on open racks, the top clearance shall comply with 480.10(D).


----------



## ICE

_California Electrical Code 2016               
Table 310.15(B)(3)(c) Ambient Temperature Adjustment for Raceways or Cables Exposed to Sunlight on or Above Rooftops                                   _


The EMT that is painted white has a feeder from the main panel to what was a main panel and is now a sub-panel.  I applied a 30° temperature adder to 113°.  At 143° there is an adjustment factor of .47.  Clearly this will not work.  I then discovered that the table has been removed from the current code.  That is odd.  So the table is gone but the temperature remains the same.


----------



## ICE

Electric service panel upgrade.  The work was done in the past without a permit and a solar company is attempting to get it approved.




In typical fashion, the person hosting the inspection has no experience in the electrical trade and no clue as to what has been done.




They do understand the term "bare Minimum".


----------



## ICE

Homeowner doing the work on his SFD.  Sent to me by an inspector.  The homeowner's day job is Fireman.


----------



## Norcal

If someone is writing "220" they don't know what they are doing either.


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> If someone is writing "220" they don't know what they are doing either.


For the first two thirds of my life the electricity was 220 and 110....now and then it was 230 and 115.  In this woke environment it is 240 and 120.  During the millennium it's gonna knock your socks off.


----------



## fatboy

ICE said:


> For the first two thirds of my life the electricity was 220 and 110....now and then it was 230 and 115.  Now in this woke environment it is 240 and 120.



Truth! I never know what is correct to say...............


----------



## Norcal

ICE said:


> For the first two thirds of my life the electricity was 220 and 110....now and then it was 230 and 115.  In this woke environment it is 240 and 120.


110 & 220 went away before the 2nd world war in favor of 115/230V, not sure when the current standard of 120/240V came into being, but it was before the NEC dropped 115/230V  for calculations.


----------



## Beniah Naylor

ICE said:


> _California Electrical Code 2016
> Table 310.15(B)(3)(c) Ambient Temperature Adjustment for Raceways or Cables Exposed to Sunlight on or Above Rooftops                                   _
> 
> 
> The EMT that is painted white has a feeder from the main panel to what was a main panel and is now a sub-panel.  I applied a 30° temperature adder to 113°.  At 143° there is an adjustment factor of .47.  Clearly this will not work.  I then discovered that the table has been removed from the current code.  That is odd.  So the table is gone but the temperature remains the same.



Are you referring to table 310.15(B)(1) in the 2020 NEC? They moved the tables around quite a bit in Article 310. Or did that table not make it into the CEC?


----------



## ICE

The inspection is for solar and thankfully it is not my inspection.  There was a service panel upgrade done under a permit and it has not passed a final inspection.  The old panel was converted to a junction box.


----------



## steveray

Handsome....


----------



## ICE

This leaning fence was shown to me by an inspector that was there for a swimming pool pre-deck inspection.  He had not been to the property prior to the pre-deck.  The fence should have generated a correction notice at the pre-gunite inspection but it did not happen.


----------



## SDS

This thread is always entertaining...I envy you guys out there getting all that fresh air and sunshine at work


----------



## ICE

The job is a room addition.  There's about six junction boxes that will be buried.  He hired a "handyman" to do the wiring. I fired the handyman.


----------



## tmurray

SDS said:


> This thread is always entertaining...I envy you guys out there getting all that fresh air and sunshine at work


I always hear that comment from people on the sunny days, but no one tells me they envy me when I have to do inspections in a hurricane or blizzard...


----------



## TheCommish

I would fire the carpenter also, what is supporting the 4 ply beam on the close end and far end


----------



## Pcinspector1

Wonder if there's a beam behind that drywall, that would provide support for the 4-ply beam?
Post #4,732


----------



## Pcinspector1

Also looks like the floor joist are without joist hangers and they used friction blocks between the joist cavities, is that still permitted?


----------



## ICE

The framing is partition walls that divide a large family room,  The result is a bedroom/bathroom and smaller family room.  None of what has been built is bearing any loads.  The floor / ceiling framing was not altered and a large existing beam has an infill wall under it.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Okay, so the beam bearing is beyond the partition wall, that makes since.


----------



## e hilton

Is it ok to have individual THHN conductors in the wall?


----------



## Pcinspector1

e hilton said:


> Is it ok to have individual THHN conductors in the wall?


Yah, is that allowed? I never seen that before, always in conduit.


----------



## fatboy

Not allowed to be run w/o conduit.


----------



## Beniah Naylor

2017 NEC 300.3(A) says that single conductors shall only be installed as part of a recognized wiring method from Chapter 3, which basically means in a raceway or as part of a cable.

That is the best code reference I could come up with.


----------



## ICE

The pictures came from an inspector.  Apparently the plans call for a flush beam where the dimensional lumber is below the ceiling.  I was told that the original post was a 4"x4" and it bowed.  Kinda missed the post base.


----------



## Norcal

e hilton said:


> Is it ok to have individual THHN conductors in the wall?


By the Handy Hack Electrical Code it is.   By any other, no.


----------



## Beniah Naylor

The rafter bearing is pretty sketchy too, but probably can't do anything about it since it's existing.


----------



## ICE




----------



## steveray

Did you ask where the pimp was? That's a lot of hose.....


----------



## ICE




----------



## patrickjames

Codegeek said:


> The 2006 IBC requires a 6 inch base.  It changes to 4 inches in the 2009 and stays 4 inches in the 2012 in Section 1210.2.1.


* 2018 IBC 1209.2.1 Floors and Wall Bases*

In other than dwelling units, toilet, bathing and shower room floor finish materials shall have a smooth, hard, nonabsorbent surface. The intersections of such floors with walls shall have a smooth, hard, nonabsorbent vertical base that extends upward onto the walls not less than 4 inches (102 mm).


----------



## patrickjames

GCtony said:


> I have a unrelated question but didn't want to start another thread.
> 
> We have an out of town project, a large retail store. The building inspector has been a "little over the top" with some of his interpertations of the code. We've played nice and done what he's asked. But today one of the things he failed us for on a final was "install 6" cove base in the restrooms"  We'll go ahead and change out the 4" to 6" like he asked but I spent an hour looking in the IBC and can't find any requirement for 6" base.  Does this exist or is this something he just likes to see?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


*2018 IBC 1209.2.1 Floors and Wall Bases*

In other than dwelling units, toilet, bathing and shower room floor finish materials shall have a smooth, hard, nonabsorbent surface. The intersections of such floors with walls shall have a smooth, hard, nonabsorbent vertical base that extends upward onto the walls not less than 4 inches (102 mm).


----------



## e hilton

Now that is a first class cover.  
And i like the gold colored sheetrock screws securing the panel to the studs.  The upper left screw isnt carrying much weight.


----------



## Norcal

The gas connectors on that tankless WH is scary, the connectors on the EMT to sealtite transition look like compression EMT to rigid, so totally wrong, those twisted black cables in background of the panel with the sealtite entering the top raise red flags, are they NM cables or single conductors? The dead front on the ITE panel is a real nice touch, not exactly code gauge metal.


----------



## ICE

I guess that they think I don't look at this stuff.


----------



## ICE

The job is a re-roof where asphalt shingles are being replaced with tile that weighs 9.7 lbs. per square foot.  That required an engineer to asses the roof structure and provide any modifications that might be required.  The roof structure has been deemed sufficient for the weight....with the caveat that the rafters can be expected to sag but other than looking awful, there is no concern.  I do believe that would be a deal breaker were this my building.


----------



## fatboy

" I do believe that would be a deal breaker were this my building."

Ditto!


----------



## Joe.B

Lots of legalese in there, "small amount," "may be observed," "should not affect," "we believe," "our opinion," 

I read "we want to sell you on this, but are not responsible in any way."


----------



## e hilton

Joe.B said:


> I read "we want to sell you on this, but are not responsible in any way."


I read it … “if you really want to install the tile it probably won’t collapse, but we wouldn’t do it”


----------



## Pcinspector1

Post #4748, Pic #3, ICE, you sure can find some dandy's! That's almost a factory copy...not!


----------



## Sleepy

Wow, I have a hard time believing that was written by an actual structural engineer.  Is that text stamped and signed?


----------



## steveray

Sleepy said:


> Wow, I have a hard time believing that was written by an actual structural engineer.  Is that text stamped and signed?


We see it all the time, particularly on the PV crap...


----------



## ICE

This was sent to the permit clerk by an owner that intends to install an EV charger.  It came with the bid from the electrician.

Owner: If I decide to have them install a full sized circuit breaker, does that impact the permit at all? Here's part of their quote:

Contractor:
*Note: *It is always preferable to install a full sized circuit breaker for your EV charger. However, because your electrical panel is already very full of circuit breakers we will need to install a thin sized circuit breaker. This is acceptable per both U.L. Listing and National Electric Code but may put more stress on the thinner circuit breaker. This may or may not cause this thin circuit breaker to fail at some future time.

You have the option to install a _full_ sized circuit breaker, but this would require us to install a new sub panel, which would cost approximately $1,200. This is not necessary at this time if we install the _thin_ circuit breaker, but if this is an option you would like to consider, please contact us to discuss


----------



## TheCommish

can you change some lighting circuits  to thin break to put the full size breaker  in for the EV?


----------



## Joe.B

Yeah it's fascinating how often people stubbornly push to get something they want without paying for what they need. It puts contractors in a tough spot because they are providing a service and they can't just say no to work that's technically permissible. "Customers always right anyways" mentality I guess...


----------



## ICE

The job is a water heater replacement.  The installer is an out of state contractor.  I performed a virtual inspection with the owner.  I asked for the single-wall vent to be supported rather than hanging on to the transite vent.  I also asked for a separation from combustibles.

The owner called the contractor and was informed and I quote, "they do not take responsibility of the oversight if the inspection fails local government agency."  This is a company that up-sells an expansion tank whenever possible.  They tell the customer that code requires the expansion tank yet they will not go beyond the top of the water heater to correct even the easiest violation.

Now notice the vent for the furnace.  It is single-wall that terminates at a transite pipe.  While there is no prohibition for a water heater reusing a transite vent, that's not true with a furnace.  The furnace is not being inspected at this time and quite possibly, has been approved as is.


----------



## e hilton

Would be interesting to read the contract.


----------



## Paul Sweet

I'm sure there are several pages of fine print that boil down to the contractor not being responsible for anything.


----------



## ICE

The correction stated that cable is not allowed in a raceway, ..that it is in a wet location.  The contractor....a California Licensed Electrical Contractor, asked me what a raceway is.





I was expecting a problem with the GEC protection that I asked for, but nary a word about that.






Edison spotted the meter in the same location as the old panel.  Note the cable guys plastic box that is mounted to the wall in the upper right corner of the picture.





Sluggo made his usual mess of things.


----------



## ICE

The job is an electric service panel upgrade...200 amps.  This is the contractors idea of a GEC connection to the water main pipe.







At the second 200 amp service panel of the day I got this #6 at the water main because as he informed me the maximum size GEC required on a residential service is #6.  I guess paint is okay on residential.


----------



## ICE

Years ago we were having sensitivity training.  I don't recall the actual title of the training but the trainer was sensitive for sure.  When she said that cross dressors is a protected class I asked this question, "So if I come to work tomorrow in a dress and high heels and Woody laughs at me, I can sue the ******?" ...to which she said yes.  I looked at Woody and said, "I'm going to stop at Goodwill on the way home."  To which Woody said, "Goodwill???  I'll take you to Macy's and we'll do this up right."


----------



## ICE

I was inspecting for solar when I came across this.  According to the computer the panel passed a final inspection a month ago.  I was reluctant to ask the girl that hosted the inspection to stick her hand into the panel....but I just had to know....


----------



## e hilton

How about the tight bends on the black conductors coming in on the left Behind the ground bar.


----------



## Norcal

e hilton said:


> How about the tight bends on the black conductors coming in on the left Behind the ground bar.


The ones entering the main breaker? That is a UL issue.


----------



## ICE

We require smoke and CO alarms.  I only do remote live stream or videos for the alarms.  Today I received a four part video that was created by the owner.  The house is two story and video #1 was the first floor.  I got a tour of it all and at the end he proudly stated, "As you can see there are no alarms on the first floor." Then he went upstairs to the bedrooms that do not have alarms.  Instead of just stating that the bedrooms lack alarms he panned each entire room to prove that.


----------



## e hilton

Did he understand that detectors are required?  Language barrier?


----------



## Mech

Is the owner also an upset customer?


----------



## ICE

His English was passable and he was nonchalant. The roofing contractor sent the video.   I previously provided the contractor and the owner with the requirements and installation instructions.


----------



## ICE

Service entrance conduit.
250.92(B)


----------



## ICE

Not my inspection.
The inspection was for a photovoltaic  system and a de-ration of the premises main breaker from 200amp to 175amp.  The de-ration is required to acomodate a 60amp solar contribution.  Upon arrival the inspector was provided a copy of the load calculations.  He noticed that there is a 50amp breaker labeled EV charger that was not included in the load calc.  The EV charger lacked a permit.  

The inspector wrote a correction to obtain a permit for the EV charger.  He included the fact that the charger has a max output of 48amp and a 60amp circuit is required.  

The contractor obtained a permit for the EV charger.  The contractor realized that the load calculation with an EV charger would not work at 175amp.  The contractor removed the 50amp breakers and installed a pair of 20amp breakers which are labeled "SPARE".  

The inspector turned it down as a blatant act of subterfuge.  The contractor appealed the decision to a supervisor.  The supervisor overrode the inspector.  The explanation given was that as long as there is no EV charger circuit breaker...there is no EV charger.  If in the future an EV charger breaker is installed that would violate the CEC and would be dealt with at that time.  This of course this comes from the premise that we do not anticipate violations.

I suppose that the next step would be a refund of the money spent for the EV charger permit.  Every penny counts when there's a Tesla Model S in the driveway.


----------



## e hilton

I wonder what story the homeowner is posting on the tesla forum about the impossible-to-deal-with city inspector?


----------



## ICE




----------



## steveray

I like the G-clef trap about 56 seconds in....


----------



## ICE

Gastitie CSST.  I have written many corrections for exposed CSST such as is shown here.  Apparently I have been wrong many times.  I recently searched the installation instructions and did not find anything that would require protection of this CSST.  I called Gastite and was advised that no protection is required for CSST that is indoors and exposed.


----------



## steveray

It's strapped.....Where does the vertical gas line go?


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> It's strapped.....Where does the vertical gas line go?


The CSST extends through a ceiling and attic to a furnace.

I'm thinking that there must have been a time when the CSST had to be protected if less than 6' above the floor.

There definitly was a time when the electrical bonding jumper had to be a solid #6 conductor and now it can be stranded #6.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Looks like a compliant install, you even have the yelow tag on the connection piece, did you follow the yellow CCST to the bonding point?

Where's fluffy at?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Looks like a compliant install, you even have the yelow tag on the connection piece, did you follow the yellow CCST to the bonding point?
> 
> Where's fluffy at?


The gas pipe does not have the #6 bonding jumper.


----------



## steveray

drip/ sediment? blowoff down to 6"....


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> The gas pipe does not have the #6 bonding jumper.



Rut row!

Theres usually a sediment trap or drip leg trap between the valve and flex pipe. But I have seen the trap omitted when using flex lines. Does Califorina have wet gas? or can the drip trap be omitted?


----------



## Joe.B

Pcinspector1 said:


> Rut row!
> 
> Theres usually a sediment trap or drip leg trap between the valve and flex pipe. But I have seen the trap omitted when using flex lines. Does Califorina have wet gas? or can the drip trap be omitted?


Where I'm at in northern California we have extremely dry gas conditions so we can omit the "drips" per CPC 1210.6 or CMC 1310.8, but the way I read it the sediment trap is still required when "not incorporated as part of the appliance." I rarely see anything installed without a sediment trap, even though they are often not installed correctly.


----------



## Inspector Gift

Joe B., Like you, we require sediment traps in our jurisdiction. (G2419.4)

We also do not allow the PTR pipe to have reverse slope, be trapped, and to discharge in a location that is "readily observable"... . (UPC 608.5, #8)  (P2804.6.1, #7)


----------



## ICE

Inspector Gift said:


> Joe B., Like you, we require sediment traps in our jurisdiction. (G2419.4)
> 
> We also do not allow the PTR pipe to have reverse slope, be trapped, and to discharge in a location that is "readily observable"... . (UPC 608.5, #8)  (P2804.6.1, #7)


Don't forget a Smitty pan and three screws at the draft hood.


----------



## ICE

The contractor added a GEC lug to the inside of the enclosure that gets sealed off by the utility.  250.24(A)(1) does not permit this.


----------



## steveray

Our meter enclosures are generally accessible...What do yours look like?


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> Our meter enclosures are generally accessible...What do yours look like?


Here is a before and after.  The terminals are the supply side of the meter.  The latch at the bottom is where Edison places a seal.  Edison places a seal to thwart theft.

Both of these pictures have a violation.


----------



## TheCommish

ICE, I think I found it https://www.instagram.com/reel/CV4InZuFFUL/


----------



## ICE

This was presented as a rain-tight installation.  The contractor stated that they do this all over southern California and this is the first time that it has been rejected.  The inspector identified the material as duct sealant.  The package or container has a UL mark on the label.  The description that I found does mention preventing moisture from entering conduits, enclosures, etc. it also states for indoor use only.


----------



## steveray

What are the self tappers doing?


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> What are the self tappers doing?


Good eye.  I wondered the same thing.  This picture was sent to me by an inspector so I haven't a clue.


----------



## ICE

Solar inverters are now including an EV charger built in.


----------



## ICE

The job is a service panel upgrade and it was done by a licensed electrical contractor.  The pictures were sent to me by an inspector.


----------



## Norcal

Those are just EMT connectors penetrating the top of the panel? A hub or sealing locknut should have been used, NM cable is only allowed in dry locations so there a problem with that too.Whats with the single conductors mixed with NM cable?


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> Whats with the single conductors mixed with NM cable?


I suspect that the single conductors are part of a cable and the sheath didn't reach the enclosure.


----------



## ICE

A good friend's son has begun the purchase of a new home in a tract that is being built by a national home builder.  Just under a million dollars. There's near a hundred occupied homes and many more to come.  So far I have only seen the main service and sub-panel.

There is no AFCI protection for the dishwasher, garbage disposal, refrigerator and microwave.  I looked at a few other houses and they are all missing AFCI protection on the same circuits.
While I was there a representative of the builder met me.  He asked me what I was doing and then asked if I have found anything wrong.  I mentioned the AFCI.  He assured me that the city inspectors are picky to the extreme and they have issued a final approval.

Now here's the rub...I live in that city.  The building dept. has an opening that will be filled by a third party inspection company.  I could easily have that job....part time even.  I found eight other problems with this house and I haven't been past the garage.  So obviously I would not fit in well with the building department.



View attachment IMG_3561.JPG


----------



## Norcal

They did not blame material shortages for the omission? While they are code requirements, the manufacturers lied as to what they  do, can do, and the users have been the beta test ever since, your friends son may be better off without them, I do not advocate removing them, code is code. Same thing with domestic dishwashers catching fire, instead of fixing the problem, the appliance manufacturers successfully lobbied for GFCI's to be required, but GFCI's are fairly cheap and work, so I don't complain much about that requirement.


----------



## Joe.B

You mentioned that you haven't been inside the house yet, there's a chance (yes, a very small chance) that all of the required AFCI/GFCI protection is at the first outlet of each branch. I have seen AFCI receptacles (and combination AFCI/GFCI) used the same way GFCI's are commonly used.


----------



## ICE

Joe.B said:


> You mentioned that you haven't been inside the house yet, there's a chance (yes, a very small chance) that all of the required AFCI/GFCI protection is at the first outlet of each branch. I have seen AFCI receptacles (and combination AFCI/GFCI) used the same way GFCI's are commonly used.


My friend has been inside and he verified that the receptacles do not have AFCI protection.  They are GFCI protected receptacles within a cabinet under a sink.

Who among you would consider the under sink location a code violation?


----------



## fatboy

_"Who among you would consider the under sink location a code violation?"_

I would............


----------



## Norcal

I have maintained for a long time that multi-family dwellings and tract homes are built as cheap as they can get away with, not minimum code, they seem to know what they can get away with, years ago was talking with a EC who had been around in the heyday of aluminum branch circuit wiring, & was told if the difference was $20 a house between AL & CU, AL it was, and yes I would consider the GFCI location a code violation.  Is there anything that can be done about it? I understand that inspection authorities have no liabilities for errors & omissions.


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> I have maintained for a long time that multi-family dwellings and tract homes are built as cheap as they can get away with, not minimum code, they seem to know what they can get away with, years ago was talking with a EC who had been around in the heyday of aluminum branch circuit wiring, & was told if the difference was $20 a house between AL & CU, AL it was, and yes I would consider the GFCI location a code violation.  Is there anything that can be done about it? I understand that inspection authorities have no liabilities for errors & omissions.


As O.B.Thompson used to say, "It's never too late to start over."  Seriously though, receptacles can be swapped out and AFCI circuit breakers installed.

The picture is the AC disconnect.  It is placed over a hole in the stucco wall.  That's a zip-tie stuck in the hole and there is another opening above the missing cable connector.  The can is against a window trim and caulked on two sides.




The refrigerant line set comes out of the wall through rubber gasket that is torn enough for mice to find a way in.




The cleanout will need a hammer and chisel first.  The pipe is a termination for a T&P valve at the water heater.  It is next to the spot where the garbage cans will be stored.  It sticks out now but won't for long.




And one of my favorite violations; There is an offset nipple screwed into a hub.




There's more but I can only attach four pictures.


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## Norcal

My comment about built as cheap as they can get away with,  getting called out on it means they aren't getting away with it. 

Mounting 3R equipment prior to the stucco is another violation in my opinion, they have the metal embossed where the mounting screws go, to give it the required 1/4" airspace behind it, having the stucco finish all around it removes that airspace. from the looks of it they used conductors without being part of a cable, or in conduit. Around here they attach roof jacks to bring the A/C linesets through, it cleans things things up a lot as long as they are oriented correctly.  I never knew that offset nipples could not be used with rain tight hubs, is that a use not permitted by the listing?

Looking at the lineset photo, a Oatey roof jack w/ the rubber gasket was used, never liked them but as shown it allows water to get in too.


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> My comment about built as cheap as they can get away with,  getting called out on it means they aren't getting away with it.
> 
> Mounting 3R equipment prior to the stucco is another violation in my opinion, they have the metal embossed where the mounting screws go, to give it the required 1/4" airspace behind it, having the stucco finish all around it removes that airspace. from the looks of it they used conductors without being part of a cable, or in conduit. Around here they attach roof jacks to bring the A/C linesets through, it cleans things things up a lot as long as they are oriented correctly.  I never knew that offset nipples could not be used with rain tight hubs, is that a use not permitted by the listing?
> 
> Looking at the lineset photo, a Oatey roof jack w/ the rubber gasket was used, never liked them but as shown it allows water to get in too.


The disconnect was placed over a finished stucco wall.  I can't identify the wiring method from the pictures but I am convinced that it is a cable.  There is a hole in the stucco and most likely wall sheathing.

The offset nipple into a hub is a listing violation in that hubs have not been evaluated with straight threaded hardware.  The hub has tapered threads and the nipple has straight threads.  The nipple threads will not correctly engage the hub threads.  This is a common practice in the solar industry.

I performed an experiment to see if the hardware is watertight.  It failed.  The hardware in the pictures is larger that what is used in the solar industry.  I have replicated the result with the smaller hardware.

The nipple was threaded to refusal.  I used a device to place water at the top of the hub.  It drains slowly but after less than a minute the water has seeped through the connection and capillary action takes hold.  The water then flows readily through the threaded connection.


----------



## Norcal

The reason I thought it might have been single conductors was the black & red conductors, 2 conductor NM has normally black & white conductors, but the Canadian market has black & red two conductor NM, but the solid grounding conductor screams NM. I wonder if the neutral was snipped off?  The straight thread prohibition into hubs knew applied to EMT connectors, but never considered offset nipples, since it installer seems to have needed to punch a KO in the bottom of the equipment, a rigid nipple & locknuts would have prob. done fine.


----------



## e hilton

I refuse to ask what “worm blower” is used for.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> I refuse to ask what “worm blower” is used for.


Fill it with air and inject a worm with air and the worm rises off the bottom of the lake.  Fill it with water and use it in an empirical experiment.


----------



## steveray

ICE said:


> Who among you would consider the under sink location a code violation?



I wouldn't necessarily....Just like I wouldn't consider a GFCI breaker "inside" a panel cover a violation....

ACCESSIBLE, READILY. Capable of being reached
quickly for operation, renewal or inspections, without requiring
those to whom ready access is requisite to take actions
such as to use tools, to climb over or remove obstacles or to
resort to portable ladders, etc.


----------



## Rick18071

ICE said:


> There is no AFCI protection for the dishwasher, garbage disposal, refrigerator and microwave. I looked at a few other houses and they are all missing AFCI protection on the same circuits.
> While I was there a representative of the builder met me. He asked me what I was doing and then asked if I have found anything wrong. I mentioned the AFCI. He assured me that the city inspectors are picky to the extreme and they have issued a final approval.



I see this a lot. Contractors take the AFCI's after the house gets a passed final electrical inspection because they cost a lot and use them on the next house. You are allowed to change breakers without a permit so their is nothing an inspector to do.


----------



## ICE

Rick18071 said:


> I see this a lot. Contractors take the AFCI's after the house gets a passed final electrical inspection because they cost a lot and use them on the next house. You are allowed to change breakers without a permit so their is nothing an inspector to do.


I have encountered that several times when I was at the property for a new project.  I am convinced that the owners are in on the subterfuge to save money.  I doubt that the breakers were replaced after the final inspection at this tract of homes.


----------



## ICE

In 2019 my sister hired a mechanical contractor to install a furnace/coil in the attic, condenser in the yard and a mini-split system for an addition.  Then in 2021 she entered into a maintenance contract with a different HVAC company.  The second contractor pointed out that all of the duct is R6 when R8 was required and that the return air duct was grossly undersized.  She notified the installing contractor and he ignored her.  She contacted the city building department (there is only a mechanical permit) and was told that it is too late to do anything....as in nothing.....didn't even ask for electrical or plumbing permits....it was, "Oh well, sorry about that."

In Oct. 2021 I was in town (C**** Ca) to visit the family, mother is doing well...thanks for asking, and my sister told me about the situation.
There is a permit for replacing HVAC equipment like for like that passed a final inspection.  That permit is invalid in that there was only a floor furnace before.  A HERS rater approved the work.

The first picture is the access path to the furnace.  The return air duct blocks the path.  The city inspector and the HERS rater did not enter the attic.




The next picture shows a sub-panel.  One would have to lay on the ground to view the inside of that enclosure...in a fetal position.




The neutral is not isolated from ground.  Cable has been used in a wet location.




CSST gas tubing was installed without a #6 bonding jumper.  The gas pipe has no sediment trap.  Cloth strap was used to support the duct.  Had I been able to get to the furnace there would have been more corrections....





I wrote a bunch of corrections.  The contractor balked at first but finding out that the CSLB is a phone call away he came around in the end.  My sister hired other contractors to perform the corrections and the installing contractor sent her a check.

I am dismayed that the city building department just doesn't seem to care....as a conciliation the building official said that the inspector that came to her home no longer works for C**** BS.,,,,The HERS company sent a new guy to do it over and this guy belly crawled around the purlin braces.

The point here is that no matter where you are located you could get that same inspection result.

Thirty years ago I was a superintendent on condos built within the city of C****. I took over about a third of the way and I was told to not worry about inspections.  I found out that the inspector would sign the job cards at a hotel room where he was provided a prostitute, money and booze.

I called the building official and had the inspector replaced.  The BO asked for a reason and I told him that it was a serious bucket of worms.  He told me that the inspector was months away from retirement so he didn’t need a reason after all.

I can’t say that the C**** Building dept. is still corrupt but clueless fits.  At first thought one would think that a university town of well over 100K people would do better....then I remeber the millions in the AHJ where I worked and the parallels are obvious.


----------



## Norcal

That Siemens panel looks like they are using a EGC as a neutral, plus a Challenger SP breaker installed in it, to add a couple more.


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> That Siemens panel looks like *they are using a EGC as a neutral*, plus a Challenger SP breaker installed in it, to add a couple more.


That is correct.  I suppose that I should have worded it differently.  Another of the corrections was to remove the extra conductor and perform the work in a workman like manner....as it is it's hard to tell how this is wired.  The panel has been raised and rewired.  I haven't been back to see it.


The line set chase is wide open and the condensate drain needs just a little help.


----------



## e hilton

I hope sis is going to bake you some brownies for this.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Norcal

What's the story, besides a screwy install?


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> What's the story, besides a screwy install?


The story is about ridiculous corrections.

Such as therse corrections that were written for a master bedroom and bathroom addition.


----------



## Rick18071

ICE said:


> I found out that the inspector would sign the job cards at a hotel room where he was provided a prostitute, money and booze.




Man, I am missing out. Never got offered that good of a bribe.



ICE said:


> Cloth strap was used to support the duct.




I thought the cloth straps were OK for flex ducts.


----------



## ICE

Rick18071 said:


> I thought the cloth straps were OK for flex ducts.


Cloth straps are listed for use a duct support.  That is a mistake.  The webbing folds and becomes a code violation.  Used with metal duct or small diameter flex duct does not present a problem however, as you can see in the pictures, there is a limit to it's use.  Under ideal conditions where the duct is supported every 4.5 feet and not sagging I suppose that the straps can do a good job with flex duct.  That seldom happens.

The third picture shows what appears to be a successful outcome.  Even there, the middle strap might be folded and narrow.  It is a challenge to inspect duct in an existing attic because unless you are willing to crawl on ceiling joist, it is likely that you won't see it all.  So what to do?  When this UL listed webbing first hit the market I turned it down.  Yes I know that I was exceeding my authority.....but wait a minute....when I said no it stuck so I must have been within my authority... But then a person with more authority overrode my no with a yes.

I tried to convince the AHJ that this stuff is no good.  I hit a wall and mostly gave up.  I could only say no to strap that I saw was folded and ask for ideal conditions.  There was still plenty of occasions to turn it down.


----------



## mtlogcabin

They should be installing a saddle between the strap and the flex duct


----------



## ICE

The contractor called me with a few questions.  The corrections were written by a coworker.  The inspector asked for a window that was over a kitchen sink to be tempered glazing.  The second question was why the laundry room could not have a sink or receptacle.  She said that the reason that the inspector gave for the window was that a kitchen sink is a hazardous location and the reason for removing the laundry sink was that it encourages people to create a second kitchen.

I made it clear that the corrections were bogus.  She made it clear that she was afraid of the inspector.  She talked it over with her architect and they came to the conclusion that it would be better to acquiesce than to risk being tortured. Having been ordered by management to not interact with that inspector under any circumstances, I could only suggest that she consult the office manager. 

By the time that this occurred I had already given up on asking management to reign in the inspector.  I was treated with indifference.  I was told that unless the contractors or owners were complaining there is no reason to act on it.

The truth of the matter is that management fears that inspector.  That inspector has been mistreating people for years and is at it today.


----------



## JPohling

What is the number and name and I will call in a complaint


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## ICE

There was a day when everybody was in the inspector's area of the office.  By everybody I mean five inspectors, the assistant office manager and the office manager.  We all heard an inspector explaining a correction over the phone for a solar contractor.  The correction stated that the asphalt shingle roof covering shall be replaced.  This correction was delivered at a final inspection for the solar. 

We heard the inspector say, "If the inspector doubts that the shingles will last an additional fifteen years, the shingles shall be replaced.  I'm shocked that you didn't know that.  I am an installer and I have know that for a long time."

When he got off the phone I asked him where that came from.  He hemmed and hawed a finally said that it is published by the Roofer's Institute. ...to which I replied, "We do not enforce anything like that."  That upset him and he told me to stay in my own lane.

Mind you, I was not confrontational in tone and I used words that did not invite trouble.  Later that day I received an email from the office manager instructing me to never challenge that inspector again because I created a "hostile work environment".  After that day I heard the inspector repeat the bullshlt with solar contractors several times. 

I am fairly certain that the solar contractors would complain and the correction would be voided.  I am also convinced that some just gave up and did it. Knowing that the inspector continued to cause such grief with seemingly no repercussion is disheartening but no surprise


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## mtlogcabin

ICE said:


> "If the inspector doubts that the shingles will last an additional fifteen years, the shingles shall be replaced.


Most asphalt shingles won't last 15 years in some climates

*Note:* When exposed to strong, direct sunlight and rapid temperature changes i.e., thermal shocks that are commonly associated with southern states and desert climate zones — think places like Texas, Arizona, Oklahoma, Nevada, and parts of California that are mostly deserts — asphalt shingles can develop cracks, resulting in a greatly diminished lifespan and premature failure.









						Average Roof Lifespan - How Long Does a Roof Last?
					

If you are in the process of buying a new home, you probably want to know the age of the roof and how much longer it will last. Similarly, if you’ve lived in your home for a while, you are probably also wondering about the current condition of the roof and whether it’s time to ... Read more




					www.roofingcalc.com


----------



## Rick18071

mtlogcabin said:


> Most asphalt shingles won't last 15 years in some climates


Rolled roofing even less


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## Norcal

Rick18071 said:


> Rolled roofing even less


I got my shop roof with 3 tab shingles to last from 1994-2021, and rolled roofing to last 20 years. This is in the Sacramento Valley with 110° temps in summer. "But it's a dry heat"


----------



## my250r11

mtlogcabin said:


> Most asphalt shingles won't last 15 years in some climates
> 
> *Note:* When exposed to strong, direct sunlight and rapid temperature changes i.e., thermal shocks that are commonly associated with southern states and desert climate zones — think places like Texas, Arizona, Oklahoma, Nevada, and parts of California that are mostly deserts — asphalt shingles can develop cracks, resulting in a greatly diminished lifespan and premature failure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Average Roof Lifespan - How Long Does a Roof Last?
> 
> 
> If you are in the process of buying a new home, you probably want to know the age of the roof and how much longer it will last. Similarly, if you’ve lived in your home for a while, you are probably also wondering about the current condition of the roof and whether it’s time to ... Read more
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.roofingcalc.com


Southern New Mexico also. Even the TPO Manu. warranties here are less than other climates.


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## ICE

I told a story about an egregious evil that was perpetrated by an inspector.  Four people have commented about the longevity of asphalt roof covering and not a word about the evil.

When Mary Hartman was told about a man in South America that went on a rampage where he slaughtered 19 people, 54 chickens, 11 roosters. 4 cows a horse and a llama....well she sobbed and blubbered, "How could anyone do that to a llama."

The inspector likes to cause the work to be done over....at least once.  The water pipe is copper, the sewer is ABS, the gas pipe is polyethylene


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## mtlogcabin

From the many post you have shared and the problems you have getting things corrected it seems to me the "EVIL" during your employment there was and still is the office manager who has a wishbone instead of a backbone.


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## Beniah Naylor

A fish rots from the head down.

(They say, I have never performed that experiment...)


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## ICE

mtlogcabin said:


> From the many post you have shared and the problems you have getting things corrected it seems to me the "EVIL" during your employment there was and still is the office manager who has a wishbone instead of a backbone.


Well you're right about "evil to the bone".....There is twenty-one offices with well over a hundred inspectors.  Imagine the havoc that would ensue if they did a competent job.  The regnant ethos has nothing to do with writing corrections.


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## my250r11

Seems to me most of that must be a local or personal code requirement


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## JPohling

ICE,  what happens when the contractor requests code sections from this inspector for his corrections?


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## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> The inspector likes to cause the work to be done over....at least once.  The water pipe is copper, the sewer is ABS, the gas pipe is polyethylene
> 
> 
> View attachment 8722


I'm not making reference to CA code

#2, IPC 603.2 12-inches, can be in same trench if benched where water is up 12-inches and away 12-inches or sleeved when crossing sewer.
#3, Did not see that requirement, could be an AHJ or GAS supplier requirement? 
#4, Amended by AHJ to the depth that they want.
#5, IFGC, 404.17.3 18 AWG YELLOW tracer wire required on NONmetallic pipe, (Plastic)


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## ICE

Polyethylene gas pipe, ABS sewer pipe and copper or CPVC or PVC or PEX water pipe can be in contact with each other. You can add electrical conduit to the list but if it is metallic conduit it shall be separated from copper pipe. The tracer wire for polyethylene gas pipe need not be yellow but shall be a minimum #14 awg.


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## Pcinspector1

*CPC 1210.1.7.2 Tracer Wire *An electrically continuous corrosion-resistant tracer wire (not less than AWG 14) or tape shall be buried with the plastic pipe to facilitate locating. One end of the tracer wire or tape shall be brought aboveground at a building wall or riser. [NFPA 54:7.1.7.3]

See why you have to put up a disclamer when talking about Califorina Codes.


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## ICE

The caller wants an explanation of the "1 hour fire rated assembly" ... please hold for that inspector... Then I get to hear the inspector explain why an updated smoke alarm is required.






The next caller wants to know what "by code" means....what the minimum protection is and how to dedicate circuits. That'll take him a while to explain all of that.


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## ICE

JPohling said:


> ICE,  what happens when the contractor requests code sections from this inspector for his corrections?


I can't say for sure.  I know that if a person asks the office manager about a correction, that manager researches .... that starts with a code commentary and progresses to asking other inspectors and commences to involve MEP engineers.  After an exhaustive search for the truth, which often includes the intent of the code, a decision is rendered.....usually within a few days.

Now if I fielded the call....well then I search my brain and render a decision.  Not days,,,not even minutes later.  But lo and behold, I would hear the topic being discussed in the office for days because the inspector refused to let it go.  The damnable feature of the bogus corrections is that the same correction is written over and over again.  The comical feature is that the process of dealing with it is repeated...step by step.


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## tmurray

So, does the statutory immunity you all benefit from down there extend to the situation being discussed here where an official is exceeding their authority?


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## ICE

In order to get past the shield one must not only prove the official wrong and establish a loss but it must be proved that the inspector acted with malice aforethought.  That is next to impossable.


----------



## tmurray

Interesting. Here it is simple liability. The courts are relatively forgiving and look to the official's actions once the mistake was made. If they tried to work with the damaged party to help return them to where they would be if the official had not made the mistake, they are usually not held liable for further damages. Officials refusing to help or who appear to be expressly damaging someone are not so lucky.


----------



## ICE

Oh I want to tell the truth....but we can't handle the truth.


----------



## ICE

Well just a snippet...

Complacency brings evil.  There are more violations missed than are caught.  When a wave of wrong corrections washes up, there's the notion that the inspector is drowning in accomplishment...not swimming with demons.

Clarification:  Here's the deal, the State requires certifications, thus the field is narrow.  Certifications became the only criteria and that opened the door to evil.

One example is hiring from within.  Permit technicians are encouraged to become inspectors.  Now it is not fair to say that someone with no construction knowledge makes for an inept inspector ...every time ...it's closer to often.  These folks have never had a job working outdoors ....never been in charge of alpha males.  Experience as a prison guard as a prerequisite trumps permit clerk.   The most telling aspect is that they are not trained to any degree of competency…they learn it as they go...or not.  That they are already employees says plenty.

Hiring third party inspectors is another avenue filled with potholes.  ICC certifications and a pulse is a winning combination. I have wondered if certifications are a condition of parole.  While I have been fortunate to meet qualified, quality third-party inspectors, I've mostly wondered how it came to be that ICC creates equals.

Years ago the building department enjoyed a reputation as the premier repository of code knowledge and could be relied upon to get it right….and that was the goal. If you wonder what in Hell happened, look no further than management.  The goal morphed to Stellar Customer Service.

Training in code application works to the detriment of customer service....which explains the dearth of code training.  Writing corrections is pushing in the wrong direction.  Hiring individuals that can, or will, write corrections is an accurate shot to the foot…why intentionally add to the work load????… Increase strife?…Upset a Board of Supervisors that is busy with rainbows?

To know what evil is, one must also know what evil is not.  The lack of ability or a desire to perform is not evil. The institution can practice evil and exonerate individuals.  Look at the job through the inspector’s lens, “Would they send me if the outcome mattered?”  It is logical to have scant respect for the position.

Okay, so what is the evil?  Straight up demons!  Cagey, corrupt to the core people that find exhilaration in the suffering of others.  The demons survive by getting a lot done.  Excelling at customer service.  And sliding in the worst evil when they detect vulnerability.

And so it happens that way.  I came to understand that it could not improve.   Having been told that changing gender identity is doable but writing corrections is not…..where does it go from there?

Yet is improvement even desirable?  Buildings are not susceptible to spontaneous combustion...people aren't being asphyxiated in their sleep... and surprise, surprise, a tremendous amount of construction is never inspected.  The status quo is seemingly successful.

Is it a concern that many inspectors can’t perform a competent inspection of a water heater when most water heaters are not inspected?…how about an electrical service panel?…Shirley that is a worry….or is it?  Dozens are done every day without a permit and dozens more are inspected poorly.  Where is the trouble in that?

Occasional evil is mere entertainment.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> Experience as a prison guard as a prerequisite trumps permit clerk. The most telling aspect is that they are not trained to any degree of competency…they learn it as they go...or not.


Yes, this pretty much sums it up when a permit tech morphs into an inspector... most of the time they lack field study and tact. I do not have a permit tech but the ones I'm aware of typically are doing some code enforcement...weeds, junk and trash. To throw them to the wolves..devils, alpha males isn't fair to them or the trades that want a professional system..which we're far from. 

So far my observation of Third Party Inspections (TPI) falls way short of my expectations. I also hear that the AHJ inspector tends to backs off and is less envolved with a project thinking the TPI's got the project under control. The AHJ finds themselves waiting for the inspection reports to eventully come in, that's got to work better.

I've found myself in a situation where the project owner does'nt want to spend the money on the TPI and the entity breaks down and obliges them and has the inspection department do the inspections, which is over their head.


----------



## ICE

The following corrections were written at the under-slab plumbing inspection for an ADU.  Except for the inspector, all parties are Asian.  That becomes relevant later.

The waste pipe serves a kitchen, two bathrooms and a laundry.  The corrections cause the waste pipe to be done over.  That is no simple thing.  The entire system has to be removed....the trenches must be dug deeper.

The "no above grade" is another twist in the turd.  The corrections often include some irrelevant bit of "code" for the sizzle 'cause there's not a lot of steak.

The cleanout correction requires a cleanout in some difficult places.  The "1/2 the diameter" of the pipe and contradicted with 2 1/2"  next to that is not unusual.

None of it is code.  None of it should be in the code.  There is many examples.  It is undoubtedly happening today.

The reasons that it goes unchecked are....well for one, nobody is checking...and for two the Asian community sticks together and they are loathe to have interaction with authority.  They will suffer the consequences as they are rather than risk what could be worse.  Of course that's not an absolute and there is the occasional opposite end of the spectrum.  But by and large, the bullflop flourishes.










Note that on the next one it was established that grade is below the concrete.  That provides plenty of opportunity to spread the dread.  

People that are learning the English language while also learning Western style construction tend to be literal in their interpretation.  So when they are told "with 1/4 inch slope per 1 foot"  that is exactly what will happen.  The literal 1/4" my have been easier at 1/2" or 3/4" or whatever but the word minimum was left out.

That sounds over the top huh!  Well I have seen plenty of literal results that were "No kidding, you did that?


----------



## ICE

Its a gas fired tank-less water heater.  I have yet to see a CO2 detector.


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## Pcinspector1

Co2, Where, bedrooms and hall, basement? CBC code like IRC R3142.2 requirement?


----------



## Beniah Naylor

It's to fight climate change... 

There's actually a typo in the practice questions of the 2018 IBC Study Guide that asks for the section that requires CO2 alarms, lol.


----------



## ICE

Well since we are discussing CO alarms here is a correction that states that the CO alarm shall not be more than five feet above the floor....it further states that combination alarms are permitted.  That would place the smoke alarm five feet or less above the floor.

There is also a requirement for a dielectric union between a copper hose bibb and a galvanized pipe.  There might be copper hose bibbs available but I have only seen brass hose bibbs.  I don't recall having encountered dielectric unions for brass to iron anything.


----------



## TheCommish

smoke and CO alarms should be installed in accordance it manufacture instructions not state law


----------



## Msradell

TheCommish said:


> smoke and CO alarms should be installed in accordance it manufacture instructions not state law


They need to be installed to meet whichever is the strictest between code and manufacturer instructions.


----------



## ICE

The inspector’s reference to state law was that state law requires alarms….not where to place the alarms.  I created a handout that explained where the alarms should be placed.  That handout was provided with every permit that was issued in the district office that I was assigned to.  The alarms were still a pain in the ass but it might have been worse without the handout.


----------



## TheCommish

Msradell said:


> They need to be installed to meet whichever is the strictest between code and manufacturer instructions.


I disagree, the manufacture has had the device test by a recognized laboratory under a defined testing procedure and listed for their use, the manufactures listing always wins.


----------



## mtlogcabin

TheCommish said:


> the manufactures listing always wins.


No it does not and I challenge you to point to a code section that is specific to smoke detectors. You will find the manufactures installation requirement for other types of detectors but not smoke detectors for residential occupancies.


----------



## fatboy

TheCommish said:


> I disagree, the manufacture has had the device test by a recognized laboratory under a defined testing procedure and listed for their use, the manufactures listing always wins.


[A] 102.1 General. Where there is a conflict between a general
requirement and a specific requirement, the specific
requirement shall be applicable. Where, in any specific case,
different sections of this code specify different materials,
methods of construction or other requirements, the most
restrictive shall govern.


----------



## Mark K

The building code can require compliance with standards adopted by another organization as long as the requirement is specific as to what is required and is specific as to date of adoption of the standard.

Requiring that the product complies with the manufactures recommendations effectively delegates to the manufacturer the authority to modify the code, which is a law.  This is not compatible with our system of laws.

I believe that this confusion arises because it is often required in contracts that the contractor comply with the manufacture's instructions.  This is done so that if there are problems the building owner can sue the manufacturer if there are problems.  Just because something is acceptable  in the context of contracts does not mean that it is  proper for the laws to require.  

Building codes are laws and are required to be adopted by a legislative body.  In some cases regulations, which are a subset of laws, can be  adopted by administrative agencies when  the legislative body has delegated to the administrative agency the right to adopt regulations if they have also specified limits on that agency.  Both legislative bodies and legislative agencies are governmental entities but a manufacture is not and thus cannot adopt or modify the laws.


----------



## rogerpa

mtlogcabin said:


> No it does not and I challenge you to point to a code section that is specific to smoke detectors. You will find the manufactures installation requirement for other types of detectors but not smoke detectors for residential occupancies.


I never understood how you could have a viable combination device. CO is slightly more dense than air and therefore will not rise of its own accord. Lacking air currents to carry the CO to the ceiling you'd be dead before the alarm went off. That having been said, ...

[RB] MANUFACTURER’S INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS. Printed instructions included with equipment as
part of the conditions of their listing and labeling.

If you violate the manufacturers' installation instructions you void the listing.


----------



## ICE

rogerpa said:


> I never understood how you could have a viable combination device. CO is slightly more dense than air and therefore will not rise of its own accord. Lacking air currents to carry the CO to the ceiling you'd be dead before the alarm went off. That having been said, ...
> 
> [RB] MANUFACTURER’S INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS. Printed instructions included with equipment as
> part of the conditions of their listing and labeling.
> 
> If you violate the manufacturers' installation instructions you void the listing.


According to all that I can find on the internet, CO is not heavier than air and will disperse evenly in air.  The alarm manufactures allow the alarms on walls as well as ceilings with restrictions from things that move air such as fans and HVAC registers,


----------



## rogerpa

My bad. I shouldn't have relied on my memory. Specific gravity of C O is 
0.9657. Still not a good situation.


----------



## TheCommish

I have seen text with the specific gravity of CO  both  slightly above and below 1, it freely mixes in are so the the high verses low  mount is up to the manufacture, for the listing  I have seen  keep them out of the corner dead spots


----------



## TheCommish

mtlogcabin said:


> No it does not and I challenge you to point to a code section that is specific to smoke detectors. You will find the manufactures installation requirement for other types of detectors but not smoke detectors for residential occupancies.


let me work on that


----------



## steveray

R104.9 Approved materials and equipment. Materials,
equipment and devices approved by the building official shall
be constructed and installed in accordance with such
approval.

R106.1.2 Manufacturer’s installation instructions.
Manufacturer’s installation instructions, as required by
this code, shall be available on the job site at the time of
inspection.


----------



## steveray

102.8 in the IMC has stuff on listing vs. code...But I think that is the only place....

as part of the requirements of this code to the prescribed
extent of each such reference and as further regulated in Sections
102.8.1 and 102.8.2.
Exception: Where enforcement of a code provision would
violate the conditions of the listing of the equipment or
appliance, the conditions of the listing and the manufacturer’s
installation instructions shall apply.
[A] 102.8.1 Conflicts. Where conflicts occur


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> Its a gas fired tank-less water heater.  I have yet to see a CO2 detector.
> 
> 
> View attachment 8760



California:
The State Fire Marshal requires the installation of approved smoke alarms in all residential properties in California. All approved smoke alarms/detectors are listed by the State Fire Marshal to comply with California Health & Safety Code 13113.7.

Not sure about the Co2?


----------



## mtlogcabin

Manufactures instructions when required by the code IMC, IFGC and IPC typically reference the installation of equipment, appliances and testing of systems.
Think of Type I hood clearance reductions or testing PEX with air or how to seal ductwork. Unless the code specifically references the manufactures installation instructions they are not part of the code and thus not applicable.


----------



## ICE

All of the codes require that the building official approve the use of any product, be it material or equipment.  The codes state that a building official can rely on the listing and labeling by a recognized agency as proof that the equipment or material is safe for use. There is a caveat that the equipment or material shall be used in conformance with the listing.  

Installation instructions are part of the listing.  How could that not be true?  I have challenged NRTL listings based on inadequate/inaccurate installation instructions and I have prevailed.


----------



## ICE

The scope of work is installing solar and downsizing the service panel main breaker to 175 amps.  The reason for downsizing the main breaker is toiaccommodate more solar amps than the 120% rule would allow with a 200 amp main. The inspector challenged the load calculation based on the fact that the pool, two AC units and the vehicle charger were omitted.  This is the new load calculation.


----------



## mtlogcabin

ICE 
Just curious
The general lighting load is based on 3 VA per sq ft. Is that using incandescent light bulbs or LED? Wouldn't LED's reduce that number quit a bit if the 3va per sq ft factor is based on incandescent light bulbs.


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:


> ICE
> Just curious
> The general lighting load is based on 3 VA per sq ft. Is that using incandescent light bulbs or LED? Wouldn't LED's reduce that number quit a bit if the 3va per sq ft factor is based on incandescent light bulbs.


I do not have an answer to your question.  The following code might shed some light on the issue of lights in that the lights are just a part of the 3 VA.

Dwelling Occupancies. In one-family, two-family, and multifamily dwellings and in guest rooms or guest suites of hotels and motels, the outlets specified in (J)(1), (J)(2), and (J)(3) are included in the general lighting load calculations of 220.12. No additional load calculations shall be required for such outlets.
(1)  All general-use receptacle outlets of 20-ampere rating or less, including receptacles connected to the circuits in 210.11(C)(3)
(2)  The receptacle outlets specified in 210.52(E) and (G)
(3)  The lighting outlets specified in 210.70(A) and (B)


----------



## Paul Sweet

This works for now in California, but a lot of homes are going to require service upgrades once you're forced to switch from gas to electricity for heat, water heater, dryer, range, etc.

I've always used the optional calculation of NEC 220.82.

The NEC still requires using 3 watts/SF for lighting & receptacles for calculations.


----------



## ICE

This is an example of why the same inspector should perform followup inspections.  Oh... and why some people should not perform inspections.


----------



## sijen110

ICE said:


> Polyethylene gas pipe, ABS sewer pipe and copper or CPVC or PVC or PEX water pipe can be in contact with each other. You can add electrical conduit to the list if it is separated from copper pipe. The tracer wire for polyethylene gas pipe need not be yellow but shall be a minimum #14 awg.


Your opinion is almost correct


----------



## ICE

sijen110 said:


> Your opinion is almost correct


Well that's better than completely wrong. Had I specified metallic conduit it would have been nearly, entirely correct.  But hey now as a moderator I have the ability to fix it ....so I will.  So few people say anything that I wonder if anyone reads this stuff ...Welcome to the forum and thanks for pointing out the error.

I say "nearly, entirely correct" due to the omission of the requirement for a sleeve required for PEX that is buried in soil.  It would then not be in contact with any of the other items....so in essence the PEX could have been left out altogether.

_Polyethylene gas pipe, ABS sewer pipe and copper or CPVC or PVC or PEX water pipe can be in contact with each other. You can add electrical conduit to the list but if it is metallic conduit it shall be separated from copper pipe. The tracer wire for polyethylene gas pipe need not be yellow but shall be a minimum #14 awg. _


----------



## e hilton

sijen110 said:


> Your opinion is almost correct


Care to explain your comment?   Knowledgeable retorts are always welcome.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Care to explain your comment?   Knowledgeable retorts are always welcome.


I think I spotted the crux of the comment.....however, sijen110 is located in London so it's not a stretch to assume that sijen110 is British in which case my mistake might have been grammatical in nature.

The man in the photo is Hao Tung.  It was a kick to talk with him due to a thick British accent.  He lives in England where he was raised from toddlerhood.  His wife Sardina is also Chinese.  She was raised in France and has a thick French accent.  Neither of them speak Chinese.  My wife speaks Chinese.  When dining in restaurants we got some odd looks from other patrons.  Kinda threw off the waitresses too!

Hao came to the USA to build a house for his sister.  He did most of the work with a crew that he hired.  The quality was top notch.  Much of it, including all of the windows came in a container from Europe.






Hao got in a beef with the plan check engineer and built the cantilevered concrete deck without a permit.


----------



## ICE

The job is a residential service panel upgrade done by a licensed electrical contractor.

There had been a large LB on the side of the enclosure.  The door was notched to clear the LB.  The LB served no purpose and an inspection wrote a correction to remove the LB and fill the missing KO.  The contractor removed the LB and welded a patch.  The door also has a welded patch to repair the notch.  I didn't get a picture of the outside weld but I was told that it looks a little better than the inside weld.  It has been painted and the paint is flaking off.
A different inspector has been sent there for a final inspection.  That inspector asked for my opinion.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> The LB served no purpose and an inspection wrote a correction to remove the LB and *fill the missing KO.*


Looks like the licensed electrical contractor did what he was instructed to do! Your advise was, to move on?

Does the CBC or adopted electrical code in CA require the grounding wire (GEC) to be protected in conduit? Is that just a phone tap or is the phone tap on your GEC?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Looks like the licensed electrical contractor did what he was instructed to do! Your advise was, to move on?
> 
> Does the CBC or adopted electrical code in CA require the grounding wire (GEC) to be protected in conduit? Is that just a phone tap or is the phone tap on your GEC?


The panel enclosure arrived with an LB attached which indicates that the enclosure is not new.  The door had to be modified to clear the LB which indicates that a hole was punched in the side of the enclosure,  The weld is amateurish at best and the paint is already failing.  In the not too distant future the side of the enclosure will be rusted.  

I advised the inspector to turn it down based on 110.3(B) and 110.12.  I also told him that if the contractor complains to management the correction will most likely be overturned.  The reasoning will be that the intent of the code has been met and any future defect will be the result of improper maintenance.  

One of the criteria that I will apply is what would I accept were I the customer.  Now I know that is not okay by the strict application of code or even the job description.  Consider it to be a thumb on the scales of justice.  I don't do that every time....just like I don't turn down holes punched in enclosures every time....sometimes I add it all up and just a small nudge pushes it off the cliff.   

The code does not require all GEC to be protected with conduit....it depends on the size of the wire and if there is the potential for physical damage.  The #4 stranded in the picture is the GEC and there is a missing bonding bushing and most likely a a cable clamp was used to secure the flex to the cabinet.  To the right of that is an inter-system bonding terminal.


----------



## ICE

Service panel upgrade and the existing panel enclosure has been converted to a junction box.


----------



## Pcinspector1

They let me do it in whatchmacallit, CA? Why can't you approve it?


----------



## Mech

Is that a chimney cap to contain any smoke in the enclosure?  Is a separate mechanical permit required for that?


----------



## steveray

Mech said:


> Is that a chimney cap to contain any smoke in the enclosure?  Is a separate mechanical permit required for that?


It's for when they let all of the smoke out of the wires.....


----------



## Pcinspector1

Not sure about CBC but See IRC R104.11. Maybe allowed? Alternative materials, designs and methods
May not be the Building Officals call? 
May be the POCO's call?
IRC R104.11.1 Tests, if BO's call could request a test

Mark would you allow this?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Not sure about CBC but See IRC R104.11. Maybe allowed? Alternative materials, designs and methods
> May not be the Building Officals call?
> May be the POCO's call?
> IRC R104.11.1 Tests, if BO's call could request a test


No


----------



## Pcinspector1

Your not Mark!

It's safer than if it were open? 
Just not non-metallic.
Usually see a plastic cover and some have a handle


----------



## Beniah Naylor

312.2 says that in damp or wet locations cabinets, cutout boxes, and meter socket enclosures shall be placed and equipped to prevent moisture or water from entering and accumulating within the cabinet, with no mention of a requirement that the product be listed. 

However, any equipment you use (listed or not) has to be approved by the inspector to be legal (110.2), and I bet that thing is listed for something, but probably not listed for weatherproofing electrical equipment, so it wouldn't comply with 110.3(B) because it isn't installed in a way that meets the manufacturer's instructions. It's really up to the inspector - which in this case is ICE - so he has very firm footing to reject this installation.

Listing and labeling is intended to be a guide to help inspectors be more comfortable with the products they are approving under 110.2. Therefore, if a product is required to be listed under the code, it needs to be listed and comply with 110.3(B). In my opinion, if a product is used in a way it wasn't intended to be used, and what they are using it for isn't required to be listed, but the product is listed for something else, as in this case, it is up to the inspector to decide if they will approve the installation.

I would tell the electrician to effectively bond that cover somehow, caulk the cover to the enclosure to waterproof it, replace the screw with a roofing screw with a neoprene washer to waterproof the screw hole, and call it good. If they don't want to do that, they can install something intended for the purpose. Odds are very good they will buy a product intended for that use, but if they don't I would still be able to approve the installation.

I like to give people choices...


----------



## Pcinspector1

Millbank cover under $15.00, may be a supply problem?


----------



## ICE

Plastic is not a permanent solution as sunlight destroys plastic.  Caulk is not recommended. Metal meter socket covers are available.  The thing about meter socket covers is that they are considered to be temporary.  I have seen many panel enclosures that were converted to junction boxes and sub-panels.  I have approved many with meter socket covers.  I probably should have turned them down due to a lack of confidence that they are watertight. 

The pictures of the duck cap were sent to me by an inspector....I can't say "another inspector" anymore because I am not an inspector anymore.


----------



## JPohling

Ice..............not an inspector anymore?   what?


----------



## Pcinspector1

He's been polishing cushions for awhile I think!


----------



## rktect 1

JPohling said:


> Ice..............not an inspector anymore?   what?


That is sad.


----------



## ICE

JPohling said:


> Ice..............not an inspector anymore?   what?


For several reasons I have retired from LA County.  I have a few projects to get done around the house and then I might go back to work somewhere else as a contract inspector.....or I might enjoy not putting up with the BS.


----------



## Norcal

Meter planking covers are a off the shelf item, or ask nicely when the PoCo is connecting the new service, they may give a cover & ring out. I have them in plastic, glass, & metal.


----------



## ICE

The inspector writes a bogus correction.  That correction causes the recipient to remove the ceiling drywall and then redo the drywall.  R702.3.7 specifically states: Use of water-resistant gypsum backing board shall be permitted *on ceilings.*


----------



## tmurray

I like how this thread has evolved from "crazy things that contractors do" into "crazy things building inspectors tell contractors to do"

I feel like balance has been achieved in the universe.


----------



## ICE

Plan check engineers get tired of the BS.


----------



## ICE

The inspector was there for a solar inspection.  The solar breaker is required to be at the far end of the bus away from the main breaker.  It was not.  The person that met the inspector moved the breakers from the far end because the bus was scorching. As the inspector was writing a correction, well actually, the inspector was taking notes....  the workman decided to remove the solar breakers.  When he touched the breakers he recoiled in pain as they were starting to melt.




The c-tap and loose ground wire are another issue.


----------



## e hilton

What caused that?  Breaker too small?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> What caused that?  Breaker too small?


I don’t know.


----------



## ICE

Fifty percent correct is not worth doing at all.  1,5,6 are so far off the mark as to be ridiculous.


----------



## ICE

The job was a reroof.  The existing sheathing is 1"x6" with gaps as is typical with a tile roof.  The new roof covering is asphalt shingles.  1/2" OSB was place over the 1"x6" to provide a substrate for the shingles.  

The correction caused them to remove OSB because the strip was not a half sheet.  That's not easy to accomplish when the OSB has been stapled.  Beyond that correction is the requirement to nail the OSB when staples are more than sufficient.


----------



## redeyedfly

ICE said:


> Fifty percent correct is not worth doing at all.  1,5,6 are so far off the mark as to be ridiculous.


What's wrong with 1&6?


----------



## mtlogcabin

IRC Table 602.3(1) Rows 30, 31 and 32 are nails only for wood structural panels on a roof

TABLE R602.3(2)
ALTERNATE ATTACHMENTS TO TABLE R602.3(1)  allows staples if the Ultimate Design Wind Speed is less than 130 MPH
Wood structural panels subfloor, roof footnote g 

g.    Specified alternate attachments for roof sheathing shall be permitted where the ultimate design wind speed is less than 130 mph. Fasteners attaching wood structural panel roof sheathing to gable end wall framing shall be installed using the spacing listed for panel edges.

I imagine ice is in an area with a UDWS is less than 130 mph so the staples should have been code compliant


----------



## redeyedfly

mtlogcabin said:


> IRC Table 602.3(1) Rows 30, 31 and 32 are nails only for wood structural panels on a roof
> 
> TABLE R602.3(2)
> ALTERNATE ATTACHMENTS TO TABLE R602.3(1)  allows staples if the Ultimate Design Wind Speed is less than 130 MPH
> Wood structural panels subfloor, roof footnote g
> 
> g.    Specified alternate attachments for roof sheathing shall be permitted where the ultimate design wind speed is less than 130 mph. Fasteners attaching wood structural panel roof sheathing to gable end wall framing shall be installed using the spacing listed for panel edges.
> 
> I imagine ice is in an area with a UDWS is less than 130 mph so the staples should have been code compliant


I was asking about post #4907, not #4908 if you're responding to #4909.

Hard to track with thousands of posts.


----------



## Mech

redeyedfly said:


> What's wrong with 1&6?



I'm not a California guy, but for #1 I would think the plumbing code also requires a certain minimum distance from the floor to provide an air gap.


----------



## redeyedfly

Mech said:


> I'm not a California guy, but for #1 I would think the plumbing code also requires a certain minimum distance from the floor to provide an air gap.


I'm not sure in CA either but IPC 504.6 requires 6" max above the floor or indirect.  It also requires the discharge pipe to be no less than two pipe diameters above the floor or indirect presumably for the air gap.  I don't know the rationale behind the 6" requirement but it's been there for as long as I can remember.


----------



## Beniah Naylor

Painting the gas piping outdoors comes from an interpretation of IFGC 403.8 Protective Coating. It is not enforced in my jurisdiction, but it is enforced elsewhere.

As redeyedfly pointed out, a water heater discharge pipe is required to be air-gapped two pipe diameters but not more than 6" in both the IPC and the IRC.

Some items (electrical) are only required to be protected with a nail guard if they are within 1 1/4" of the stud face, but others (plumbing) are 1 1/2". Not sure what was controversial about that one.


----------



## ICE

California Plumbing Code:
608.5(3) states that the T&P shall terminate no less than 6” nor more than 24” above grade.


----------



## ICE

Protection of plumbing pipe is required if the pipe is less than 1” away from the face of framing.  Electrical is required to be protected if less than 1.25” away from the face of framing


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:


> IRC Table 602.3(1) Rows 30, 31 and 32 are nails only for wood structural panels on a roof
> 
> TABLE R602.3(2)
> ALTERNATE ATTACHMENTS TO TABLE R602.3(1)  allows staples if the Ultimate Design Wind Speed is less than 130 MPH
> Wood structural panels subfloor, roof footnote g
> 
> g.    Specified alternate attachments for roof sheathing shall be permitted where the ultimate design wind speed is less than 130 mph. Fasteners attaching wood structural panel roof sheathing to gable end wall framing shall be installed using the spacing listed for panel edges.
> 
> I imagine ice is in an area with a UDWS is less than 130 mph so the staples should have been code compliant


The sheathing for the reroof is not structural.  The sheathing is merely a substrate for attaching asphalt shingles.  The plan check engineers apply a reduction in values when staples are used instead of nails for structural panels.  As I recall the values are multiplied by 0.8.


----------



## Beniah Naylor

ICE said:


> California Plumbing Code:
> 608.5(3) states that the T&P shall terminate no less than 6” nor more than 24” above grade.





ICE said:


> Protection of plumbing pipe is required if the pipe is less than 1” away from the face of framing.  Electrical is required to be protected if less than 1.25” away from the face of framing


The inspector was stuck on the I-codes instead of California/UPC... on the right track in the wrong train, lol...


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> California Plumbing Code:
> 608.5(3) states that the T&P shall terminate no less than 6” nor more than 24” above grade.


Thats the old code that I remember enforcing from the IPC.

I once inspected a job with a garden hose hooked up to a PRV. Not good.


----------



## e hilton

redeyedfly said:


> I don't know the rationale behind the 6" requirement but it's been there for as long as I can remember.


Water heater could be located above the first floor.  An attic maybe.  Easiest outlet could be through the soffit over the front door.  T&P dumps at the same time as the Brownie troop rings the door bell to sell GS cookies.


----------



## ICE

If the T&P terminates too close to the ground (ie. less than 6") it can splash back up and scald someone.  The 24" limit is to protect the Brownie troop.


----------



## redeyedfly

ICE said:


> If the T&P terminates too close to the ground (ie. less than 6") it can splash back up and scald someone.  The 24" limit is to protect the Brownie troop.


That only happens in CA.

The rest of the country wants their citizens scalded.

Seriously, I have no idea why it must discharge within 6" of the floor in IPC.


----------



## ICE

redeyedfly said:


> Seriously, I have no idea why it must discharge within 6" of the floor in IPC.


California has been 6” to 24” for the twenty-five years that I was an inspector.  When I saw you talking about IPC and “within 6” of grade” I figured that ICC made a typo when they copied the UPC…..or was it ICBO when that went down.


----------



## ICE

Somebody should create a chart of what breaker works with what manufacturer.  I have to wonder if all of these breakers are interchangeable.


----------



## Pcinspector1

ICE said:


> California has been 6” to 24” for the twenty-five years that I was an inspector. When I saw you talking about IPC and “within 6” of grade” I figured that ICC made a typo when they copied the UPC…..or was it ICBO when that went down?


 Any closer to grade I'd suspect it could freeze, we get a few 6-inch snow accumulation, that could be the reason?


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Any closer to grade I'd suspect it could freeze, we get a few 6-inch snow accumulation, that could be the reason?


Nope…it’s scalding.  There should not be water in the pipe to freeze.  Any water in the pipe will thaw ice.


----------



## redeyedfly

It's not "to grade", it's to the floor.  We don't put water heaters in unconditioned areas in freezing climates.

The requirement only means that you have to add a pipe from the T&P valve down to near the floor.  No requirements that it discharge outdoor.  I don't think it even needs to discharge into the drip pan.  

It seems the requirement is to avoid scalding someone who happened to be next to the valve if it ever opens.  6" appears arbitrary, the CA code to 24" would also achieve the same results.


----------



## ICE

I can't copy and paste the 2019 CPC so a picture will have to do.  As you can see, there is no requirement that the T&P drain extend to the exterior. 





I can copy and paste the 2011 CPC.  That code stated that the T&P drain could terminate at an approved location.  The 2019 CPC does not state that in specific terms but says that the T&P shall discharge in such a manner that does not cause personal injury or structural damage.  The term "structural damage" leaves the door open to ....oh let's say ruin the carpet.  In other words, the flooring can suffer as long as the girders are not affected. 

2011 CPC                  
608.5 Relief valves located inside a building shall be provided with a drain, not smaller than the relief valve outlet, of galva- nized steel, hard-drawn copper piping and fittings, CPVC or listed relief valve drain tube with fittings that will not reduce the internal bore of the pipe or tubing (straight lengths as op- posed to coils) and shall extend from the valve to the outside of the building, with the end of the pipe not more than two (2) feet nor less than six (6) inches above ground or the flood level of the area receiving the discharge and pointing downward. Such drains *shall be permitted to terminate at other approved locations*. Relief valve drains shall not terminate in a building’s crawl space. No part of such drain pipe shall be trapped or subject to freezing. The terminal end of the drain pipe shall not be threaded.


----------



## redeyedfly

Interesting that CPC requires you do something to route the discharge to a drain or outside; IPC does not, you only need to get it close to the floor.  #7 in CPC above is opposite of IPC which specifically allows discharge into the drip pan.  

Now I can't figure out why CPC would disallow discharge into the pan.


----------



## ICE

redeyedfly said:


> Interesting that CPC requires you do something to route the discharge to a drain or outside; IPC does not, you only need to get it close to the floor.  #7 in CPC above is opposite of IPC which specifically allows discharge into the drip pan.
> 
> Now I can't figure out why CPC would disallow discharge into the pan.


The pan would be overwhelmed in an instant.  Pointless comes to mind.


----------



## Pcinspector1

I have enforced the 6/24-inch code for years and noticed that the IRC does not indicate 24-inch. I believe I have been enforcing the UPC code by telling them no higher than 24-inches when asked. Haven't been called out on it, most just make it 6-inches off the floor if a floor drains near by. 

Commercial plumbers typically dump it in the floor sink.

Not sure if I understand the P2804.6.1 number 10 wording in regards to two times the discharge pipe diameter above the floor? Does this lead you to believe that PEX with insert fittings is now allowed to be used for the discharge pipe? Or is this another measurement for the length of pipe? Confused with this a bit.


----------



## Beniah Naylor

Pcinspector1 said:


> Not sure if I understand the P2804.6.1 number 10 wording in regards to two times the discharge pipe diameter above the floor? Does this lead you to believe that PEX with insert fittings is now allowed to be used for the discharge pipe? Or is this another measurement for the length of pipe? Confused with this a bit.


PEX with insert fittings is allowed if the business end of the pipe is secured so it doesn't whip around like a snake when it goes off, and if the pipe diameter is upsized to accommodate the diameter reduction of the pipe at each fitting.

The two times the discharge pipe diameter is basically a minimum air gap to prevent siphoning if the floor drain backs up and overflows in that area - if you are two pipe diameters above the floor or flood level rim, the theory is that you won't siphon dirty water back into your water heater and contaminate your water supply.

For IPC, assuming you have a 3/4" discharge pipe, you want the discharge pipe to terminate anywhere above 1 1/2" above the floor to 6" above the floor.


----------



## redeyedfly

ICE said:


> The pan would be overwhelmed in an instant.  Pointless comes to mind.


I don't know if it would be overwhelmed or not.  I've never seen one operate and couldn't find a video of one in operation.  It doesn't drain the tank, it only relieves the pressure which may be a relatively small amount of water before it closes again.  

In any case, dumping it on the floor directly would have the same result.


----------



## ICE

redeyedfly said:


> I don't know if it would be overwhelmed or not.  I've never seen one operate and couldn't find a video of one in operation.  It doesn't drain the tank, it only relieves the pressure which may be a relatively small amount of water before it closes again.
> 
> In any case, dumping it on the floor directly would have the same result.


The valve might be open until the temperature of the water drops.  I too have never seen one opened.  The pan is almost entirely filled with water heater with a narrow gap at the edge so I doubt it would do any good at all.....picture a garden hose for a fifteen second blast at full throttle. 

I once had a water heater replacement with the T&P drain pipe that entered a wall and I failed to find where it terminated.  The owner was with me.  After I left he opened the valve with the idea that it would become obvious where it terminated.  It took a while.  It was stubbed into the wall and went no further.  It blew the drywall off in the living room. I found that out when I went back for another inspection...it was difficult to be nonchalant.


----------



## BLangley

Reminds of some condos I used to manage.

Garden style, 12 units per building. T&Ps were piped into the AC condensate drains, so the only way you knew there was an issue was steam coming out of the storm grates in front of a building.


----------



## Norcal

ICE said:


> Somebody should create a chart of what breaker works with what manufacturer.  I have to wonder if all of these breakers are interchangeable.
> 
> 
> View attachment 8903


The info is wrong, Eaton BR is OEM for BR loadcenters & Challenger, not classified for anyone, Eaton CL is UL classified for most competitive makes, never have read that GE is classified for any competitive makes. Siemens can be used for Murray, there is a letter from UL on that.  Eaton has removed the Cutler-Hammer brand name & replaced it with Eaton, just as Siemens phased out the ITE brand in the past.


----------



## ICE

Mark K,
You really don't know the depth and breath of the malfeasance that exists in the building code enforcement community.  It is just bizarre.

I met yesterday with a friend that is trying to obtain a permit for a carport.  It has taken six months so far and the planner is clueless.  The contractor had a list of questions regarding an ADU that he is building.  He had inspection for footing and under-slab plumbing that amounted to a few minutes.  He wasn't sure that the inspector looked at it and the inspector would not answer any questions....so I did.

I plan on re-piping. I called the building dept to find out about a permit.  I was told that I must submit an isometric drawing so that the inspector will know what fixtures were involved.  Four full bath, kitchen, laundry and hose bibs and I bet that the inspector wouldn't get past the first floor.  I built a 6' retaining wall and called for a footing inspection.  When the inspector showed up I was using a shop-vac to get the loose soil.  The inspector remarked that he had never seen anyone do that and stated that I am so conscientious that he didn't need to bother with an inspection....he signed the card and left without looking.

The AHJ did away with paper.  Inspectors have iPads in which they are to enter corrections.  Well they are not all up to speed with that. One inspector writes the corrections on floors and walls.  Following behind him is an Easter egg hunt.









It is actually an improvement over the paper correction slips.


----------



## fatboy

That correction notice is flippen ridiculous! The contractor should scream, how about something I can read. I would have an inspector on the carpet in front of me.


----------



## tmurray

We write corrections in an ipad, but I also bring along a black sharpie to write on areas to help contractors find where they need to do a repair on framing or vapour barrier inspections. Just an arrow or circle to help them find what I am talking about.

It seems easier than trying to describe where an issue is sometimes and contractors are not always on site to meet us.


----------



## Inspector Gift

RED FLUORESCENT paint works great for some projects!


----------



## ICE

Inspector Gift said:


> RED FLUORESCENT paint works great for some projects!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 8942


There was an inspector that used orange paint.  He painted the floors with arrows.  There was an upset contractor because the inspector made arrows on the garage slab.  Big orange arrows.

I took pictures. A contractor would call me and I could direct him to the exact spot.  More than one had to wonder how I knew so much detail.


----------



## Joe.B

ICE said:


> There was an inspector that used orange paint.  He painted the floors with arrows.  There was an upset contractor because the inspector made arrows on the garage slab.  Big orange arrows.
> 
> I took pictures. A contractor would call me and I could direct him to the exact spot.  More than one had to wonder how I knew so much detail.


Yeah, that'll do it. Also, don't mark the drywall, it'll likely bleed right through. That's an easier fix though.


----------



## Pcinspector1

I used spray paint on some OSB floor sheeting to indicate that there was no end nailing on the subfloor, the framer appreciated it but I was worried about the contractor blowing up! Bottom line, the ends were nailed. I think the yard marking paint is more of a powder base and rubs off.

Anyone else use paint to mark rough-in framing discrepancies?


----------



## Joe.B

Pcinspector1 said:


> I used spray paint on some OSB floor sheeting to indicate that there was no end nailing on the subfloor, the framer appreciated it but I was worried about the contrator blowing up! Bottom line the ends were nailed. I think the yard marking paint is more of a powder base and rubs off.
> 
> Anyone else use paint to mark rough-in framing discrepancies?


No. But I did ask for a paint ball gun to mark hard to reach places. Request denied...


----------



## ICE

Joe.B said:


> Yeah, that'll do it. Also, don't mark the drywall, it'll likely bleed right through. That's an easier fix though.



Chalk can smear when painted and also cause the paint to flake off the wall.


----------



## mtlogcabin

Pcinspector1 said:


> Anyone else use paint to mark rough-in framing discrepancies?


Yes we use a Blue color paint for framing. Orange, Red or Yellow are never used. I have had many owners call upset that there is something major wrong with the construction of their house. Then I spend time explaining to the owner that there is a minor correction that needs to be done, usually missed fasteners in the sheathing or hangers and the paint is there to aid the contractor in identifying where the corrections is and it provides proof when he sends a photo of the correction for the file. Since we went to Blue paint I don't get the questions from the owner anymore


----------



## my250r11

Sometimes paint/lumber crayon on the framing itself or the osb. I use paint on roof inspection for protruding nails or shiners. This stopped from me getting the call the roofer couldn't find it as well as I know the shingle gets replaced.


----------



## steveray

ICE said:


> Chalk can smear when painted and also cause the paint to flake off the wall.
> 
> View attachment 8944
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 8945


One of the best screw patterns I have ever seen.....


----------



## ICE

The contractor decided to install a backwater valve for the building sewer of an ADU.  A backwater valve is not required for this property.  The contractor has dealt with an inspector that required a backwater valve on every ADU.  The picture is an example of how he has passed inspection, ...every time.  He was not aware that the valve shall be flat with no slope.  He did not know that the valve shall be accessible. There has never been a tag placed at the cleanouts warning of a backwater valve.


----------



## steveray

Hunh.....Finally something where IPC is tighter than UPC/ CPC....

P3008.1 Sewage backflow. Where the flood level rims of
plumbing fixtures are below the elevation of the manhole
cover of the next upstream manhole in the public sewer, the
fixtures shall be protected by a backwater valve installed in
the building drain, branch of the building drain or horizontal
branch serving such fixtures. Plumbing fixtures having flood
level rims above the elevation of the manhole cover of the
next upstream manhole in the public sewer shall not discharge
through a backwater valve.

Unless you are just saying it is a flat area and that is why it is not required?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Does anyone have a diagram of this requirement to show the novice the reason its required? 

The flaw in this requirement is that the contractor typically does not install these unless required by the inspector which is the case here.

Yes they are to be accessible and we typically see them inside the foundation. 

Outside the foundation they have to provide a larger pipe cyinder and a way to pull the flapper devise out. The one in the photo, I'm not sure how you access it?


----------



## mtlogcabin

The UPC has the same language


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> Unless you are just saying it is a flat area and that is why it is not required?


Not only not required but also not allowed due to the topography.


----------



## Pcinspector1

On a gravity sewer system arn't you always going to have an upstream and down stream MH? A back up is going to cause sewage damage if there is no devise in place to prevent it. A MH that is above the house connection shouldn't be an issue if its a gravity system.

What is this code trying to do?



ICE said:


> Not only not required but also not allowed due to the topography.


Going down hill with no way to back-up?


----------



## Pcinspector1

TP is going to get hung up on the flapper anyway, better have Roto Rooter on speed dial!


----------



## Joe.B

I always interpreted that section as a whole. In other words, if you're in a situation where you're going to need a ejector/lift pump, is also needs backflow protection. It says "located below the next upstream manhole *OR* below the main sewer level." If you have that condition then all the following applies. That's my take anyhow...


----------



## steveray

Joe.B said:


> I always interpreted that section as a whole. In other words, if you're in a situation where you're going to need a ejector/lift pump, is also needs backflow protection. It says "located below the next upstream manhole *OR* below the main sewer level." If you have that condition then all the following applies. That's my take anyhow...


I believe the intent is it comes out of the manhole before the flood level rim of the fixture.....Has nothing to do with pump systems...?


----------



## fatboy

I'm with steveray.


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> I believe the intent is it comes out of the manhole before the flood level rim of the fixture.....Has nothing to do with pump systems...?


710.2 identifies pumps used when the system is below the crown level of the main sewer.


----------



## steveray

Does it then go on to say you need a check and full open valve on the discharge side of the sump? And then what is "better".. A check or a backwater?

P3007.2 Valves required. A check valve and a full open
valve located on the discharge side of the check valve shall be
installed in the pump or ejector discharge piping between the
pump or ejector and the gravity drainage system


----------



## Joe.B

We don't have P3007.2, we have section 710 and as a whole it covers "below the next upstream manhole *or *below the main sewer level."


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> Does it then go on to say you need a check and full open valve on the discharge side of the sump? And then what is "better".. A check or a backwater?
> 
> P3007.2 Valves required. A check valve and a full open
> valve located on the discharge side of the check valve shall be
> installed in the pump or ejector discharge piping between the
> pump or ejector and the gravity drainage system


CPC mentions the backwater and check valve as an either or.  I assume that a backwater valve on a discharge line from an ejector or pump would be more robust than the ABS valve in the picture.  I have dealt with a few that were part of the ejector assembly.


----------



## steveray

ICE said:


> CPC mentions the backwater and check valve as an either or.  I assume that a backwater valve on a discharge line from an ejector or pump would be more robust than the ABS valve in the picture.  I have dealt with a few that were part of the ejector assembly.
> 
> 
> View attachment 8966


Interesting that yours says "pressure rated"...Does that rule out all plastic or just the foam core?


----------



## ICE

I didn't know the answer so I Googled the question.  The internet says that plastic is okay except for the foam core.  One plumbing forum member had this, which he claimed came from Charlotte Pipe:




PVC is used on swimming pool systems and there is nominal pressure with those.  The grinder/ejectors that I have inspected were installed for bathrooms at the far end of warehouses and as I recall copper, was used.


----------



## ICE

The inspector was there for a footing/slab inspection.  The under-slab plumbing has been approved by another inspector.


----------



## steveray

So is it the pipes in the "footings" or the vapor barrier or the rebar clearance?


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> So is it the pipes in the "footings" or the vapor barrier or the rebar clearance?


Dealers choice.


----------



## ICE

I was shown this by a good friend.  What you see is plywood backing for equipment in a studio.  The hurricane clips are screwed to the stud, (front and one side) and screwed to the plywood.  This leaves a wide space behind the plywood for plumbing and electrical.  The method is bullet proof for strength, ease of installation and consistency. 

I sent the pictures and the description to Simpson Strong-Tie with the hope that they would reward my friend for a stellar idea. I sent several emails and spoke to one of the engineers, but I did not get a response...not even a confirmation that they saw the emails.


----------



## mtlogcabin

ICE said:


> but I did not get a response...not even a confirmation that they saw the emails.


You will see them in a future catalog soon after they patent it


----------



## ICE

mtlogcabin said:


> You will see them in a future catalog soon after they patent it


They already have a patent on the hardware.  It will work on wood studs, 1.5" and 1.25" metal studs.  Backing in ceilings.  All Simpson needs is a picture for the catalog.  I wasn't expecting them to send him a big check....but a small one would have been nice.  Of course, the engineer that I was dealing with didn't know what backing is or why they need it.  You'd think that they make anything other than construction hardware.


----------



## e hilton

Neatly installed too.


----------



## steveray

Good idea but probably too expensive to be competitive...Guessing this is cheaper...Danbak makes blocking strips....In FRTW for those of you that may be requiring what the code does not...


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> Good idea but probably too expensive to be competitive...Guessing this is cheaper...Danbak makes blocking strips....In FRTW for those of you that may be requiring what the code does not...
> 
> View attachment 9048


A 700 lb. pallet of 250-48" long strips that are 16" on center is $3000 before shipping.  I only found it for sale in lots of 250. That works out to $4 or $8 if you need two in the stud bay.  And that is still before shipping.  For that you get 5" wide coverage each.  With Simpson hurricane clips at 98 cents plus scrap plywood the Danback is much more costly.  The metal on the Danback is not described but it is cut with snips so it is thin compared to the hurricane clip.  The Danback will not work on wood framing.


----------



## ICE

My neighbor had an inspection for rooftop solar yesterday.  In California the AHJ is allowed to perform just one inspection for solar and that is the final inspection.  The inspector was there for less than four minutes.  The house is two story with five bedrooms and there wasn't time enough to verify the smoke and CO alarms much less perform an inspection of the solar.  I don't know if the work passed inspection but the contractor and owner were all smiles.


----------



## ICE

An inspector sent me this.  The next step is installing the windows.
The plans call for a MST48 at each corner.  The contractor installed CS18.  It is dutifully nailed to the entire header and sill.  At the sill it is in the way of the window nailing flange.


----------



## e hilton

Whats the purpose of the adjustable connectors above the window … the ones that have been mashed flat?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Whats the purpose of the adjustable connectors above the window … the ones that have been mashed flat?


I assume that the A35 is acting as a shear transfer.


----------



## classicT

e hilton said:


> Whats the purpose of the adjustable connectors above the window … the ones that have been mashed flat?


Force Transfer Around Openings.... it is an engineered design that allows for partial credit of shear resistance from the sheathing around the opening.

Learn more from APA @ https://www.apawood.org/ftao


----------



## classicT

classicT said:


> e hilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the purpose of the adjustable connectors above the window … the ones that have been mashed flat?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Force Transfer Around Openings.... it is an engineered design that allows for partial credit of shear resistance from the sheathing around the opening.
> 
> Learn more from APA @ https://www.apawood.org/ftao
Click to expand...

Sorry... if you were referring to the connectors at the rim board, it is likely an additional connection from the rim board to the top/bottom plates of the wall above/below. If they are Simpson A35, they should have been installed on the inside of the rim where they would not have been smashed flat. Looks suspect. But it is clearly an engineered design, so need to know what the engineer designed to know more for sure.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Hope they ordered a window with tempered glass?

Should be a gap between OSB panels, oh well, same thing happens here.


----------



## ICE

Pcinspector1 said:


> Hope they ordered a window with tempered glass?


The staircase in the window is why I posted the picture.


----------



## ICE

250.53(G) Rod and Pipe Electrodes.
The electrode shall be installed such that at least 2.44 m (8 ft) of length is in contact with the soil. It shall be driven to a depth of not less than 2.44 m (8 ft).

This was done by a licensed general contractor.  There is ample evidence that the contractor should not be performing electrical work.  Had anyone involved known much about the electrical code requirements the rod would be driven to a couple inches above the concrete.  While that is short of 8' it has been an accepted practice forever.  

The label is the true indication that they are clueless and not because they didn't read it.  Since the label is present, the typical reply, "That's a ten foot long rod" will not suffice as usual.  They didn't know that there is a ten foot rod available and perhaps they would not lie even if they did.  Now the GEC and armor are too short but luckily, there is just one rod.


----------



## Norcal

Besides the rod not driven far enough, do you have testing results of 25 ohms or less so that they can only drive one rod? See 250.53(2) 2017 NEC.  It also looks like that condensing unit may be supplied with flexible cord, but can't tell for sure.


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> Besides the rod not driven far enough, do you have testing results of 25 ohms or less so that they can only drive one rod?


They wouldn’t know what an ohm is.  The lucky part of the single rod is that there is less wast of #4 GEC and armor.  But looking at the picture I think that I could be wrong about the single rod.  The GEC doesn’t stop at the rod. ….but maybe it continues to the water main.  Who knows…. 

The picture was sent to me by an inspector and the condenser was not mentioned by him.


----------



## Norcal

ICE said:


> They wouldn’t know what an ohm is.  The lucky part of the single rod is that there is less wast of #4 GEC and armor.  But looking at the picture I think that I was wrong about the single rod.  The GEC doesn’t stop at the rod.
> 
> The picture was sent to me by an inspector and the condenser was not mentioned by him.


250.53(2) still applies, no test a 2nd rod is required & is the quickest & cheapest way to comply, the testing equipment is expensive and need to be qualified to perform the testing.


----------



## Pcinspector1

I can't say that I have ever seen a grounding rod set that high before, looks to far out in the pic to have hit a spread footer? The ground rod indicating 8-ft is diffently calling out ....WRONG on the install.


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> the testing equipment is expensive and need to be qualified to perform the testing.


I have witnessed the test.  https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/blog/grounding/earth-ground-fall-potential

I have encountered this device.  I contacted Fluke and I was told that the only true measurement of ground rod resistance is the three point fall-of-potential test. https://www.testequity.com/product/...vYQizpxqImyBapj06_exoBCcdoCIsqwoaAsM8EALw_wcB


----------



## Inspector Gadget

ICE said:


> Plan check engineers get tired of the BS.
> 
> View attachment 8858



I find this slightly shocking. Dunno about your codes of conduct in the U.S., but it's drilled into our heads (and now encapsulated in law) that we are not to provide design guidance. The most I'd expect is "submit designs that comply with [insert code or standard reference.]



fatboy said:


> That correction notice is flippen ridiculous! The contractor should scream, how about something I can read. I would have an inspector on the carpet in front of me.



Charge the AHJ for translation from Coptic to English. 



ICE said:


> View attachment 9045



That's ingenious. 



ICE said:


> They wouldn’t know what an ohm is.



People are so resistant to knowledge.
Thank you, I will be back later this week.


----------



## Mech

Inspector Gadget said:


> ICE said:
> They wouldn't know what an ohm is.
> 
> People are so resistant to knowledge.
> Thank you, I will be back later this week.



What units are used to measure a person's resistance to change?  Uhms?


----------



## Inspector Gadget

Mech said:


> What units are used to measure a person's resistance to change?  Uhms?


More like Whats?


----------



## Joe.B

Mech said:


> What units are used to measure a person's resistance to change?  Uhms?


Dolts?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Ounces or pints


----------



## Inspector Gift

ICE said:


> It looks like they patched a hole next to the rod?  The patch material matches what is spread around the new ground rod.    I'm guessing that they tried to drill a hole and hit rebar or something else, so they tried again 5 inches away.
> 
> View attachment 9148


----------



## mtlogcabin

They just forgot to cut it off closer to the concrete


----------



## ICE

I was cleaning up the photo library and found this picture from a virtual solar inspection.  There's a bunch of it and I didn't see it until now.


----------



## ICE

Here's another photo from a virtual inspection:

The #4 was moved so that there is paint where the setscrew engages.





Is it damage or dirt?


----------



## ICE

You might have heard what I said without listening to what I said.


----------



## ICE




----------



## ICE

I have to wonder why the receptacle was placed next to the recently installed waste pipe which is not a cleanout fitting.


----------



## ICE

Eight circuits labeled "garage" and four "spare".


----------



## e hilton

Going to open a repair shop?


----------



## Joe.B

Or a grow


----------



## steveray

Cut the red wire...


----------



## ICE

Solar contractors just don't care.








The installer sent the second picture to show the mounting of the equipment.  The Amphenol lay-in lug has two wires in the terminal.  There is a cluster of bare copper wire against the aluminum rail.  That's two violations that the installer was not aware of.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> Solar contractors just don't care.
> 
> View attachment 9184


Yes ma’am … our solar panels will last longer than your roof.


----------



## ICE

Nobody has an answer.


----------



## Joe.B

ICE said:


> Nobody has an answer.


What's the question? How to do this correctly? Build a proper cricket.


----------



## ICE

Joe.B said:


> Build a proper cricket.


No that's not it.


----------



## ICE

Solar contractor.


----------



## tmurray

ICE said:


> Nobody has an answer.


I'm not sure what problem they think they are fixing. I'm pretty sure they aren't fixing it though.


----------



## Joe.B

ICE said:


> No that's not it.


So what's the question? Got me curious now


----------



## ICE

Joe.B said:


> So what's the question?


What’s up with all of the tin shingles?  There is a semblance of a pattern and it is random at the same time.


----------



## MtnArch

ICE said:


> Nobody has an answer.
> 
> View attachment 9194
> 
> 
> View attachment 9195
> 
> 
> View attachment 9196


Really BIG woodpeckers!


----------



## Joe.B

Hahaha got it. I see a lot of step flashing used to patch small holes so I didn't think twice about that part. 

Now that you mention it there is a pattern of some sort, I wonder if they were using those holes to blow-in insulation, then step flashing to patch the holes? That last picture up close of the hole looks about the right size hole and you can see some insulation. I'll place my bet on that.


----------



## ICE

Too much of a good thing:




Too much of everything:


----------



## ICE

Back in the saddle... Did one day in a city.  The contractor is not required to be on site for inspection.  Had solar inspections.   Upon arrival I found them just like the picture shows....I didn't touch anything to stage the scene.  It happens several thousand times each week in southern California.  A common practice for years and I am not aware of anyone having been electrocuted.  I used to raise Hell about this....I am just one person and nobody pays attention to me.


----------



## ICE

Not only is the contractor not required to be there for the inspection the inspector is not expected to actually perform the inspection.  To the right of the battery control panel is another panel.


----------



## e hilton

Did you fail the last one for not being accessible?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Did you fail the last one for not being accessible?


Yes I did...as the owner was chewing me out because it took four months to get the battery.


----------



## ICE




----------



## Norcal

Going to accept the misuse of the Myers type hub, rather then the proper hub from SQ D?


----------



## ICE

Well now that I have had a cup of coffee and I can safely negotiate the physical world.... The picture was taken a long time ago...so long ago that I have no memory of it.  I see signs that the panel was mounted over a hole in the wall so I probably rejected all of it.  It is possible that I posted these pictures in this thread and there is a description but looking through 250 pages is not going to happen.


----------



## ICE

Solar contractors produce some of the worst electrical work imaginable.


----------



## my250r11

ICE said:


> Nobody has an answer.
> 
> View attachment 9194
> 
> 
> View attachment 9195
> 
> 
> View attachment 9196


My bet is on blown insulation while they had the roof covering off.


----------



## Joe.B

my250r11 said:


> My bet is on blown insulation while they had the roof covering off.


Yup, my thoughts exactly...


----------



## ICE

It is correct that a gas meter shall not be inside the dwelling.  The meter indoors is an indication that some illegal construction took place. The corrections indicate that the inspector is clueless or lazy or both.


----------



## e hilton

What he says is correct.  Maybe he knows it’s futile to dig too deep, so he scores what he was called to look at.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> What he says is correct.  Maybe he knows it’s futile to dig too deep, so he scores what he was called to look at.


When the inspector states that gas pipe can’t be under a slab or inside a home he has made two incorrect statements.  The lowest common denominator is what we deal with and those statements might be taken as absolute.  He should have stopped with, “A gas meter shall not be located indoors.” and included, “Obtain a plumbing permit to relocate the gas meter to the exterior.”

From there they can find out how to route gas pipe under a slab and in a building…..both of which are possible.


----------



## e hilton

Whoa.  Stop the train dude.  You said “It is correct that a gas meter shall not be inside the dwelling.” and now you’re saying it is allowed?


----------



## ICE

ICE said:


> He should have stopped with, “A gas meter shall not be located indoors


I guess that you missed this.


----------



## e hilton

I'm sorry.  Having a bad day at work.  I had a choice between covering up something i should not have done (a procedural item) by glossing over it, or telling the truth and admitting to getting out of sequence.  They didn’t take it well.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> I'm sorry.  Having a bad day at work.  I had a choice between covering up something i should not have done (a procedural item) by glossing over it, or telling the truth and admitting to getting out of sequence.  They didn’t take it well.


No apology needed…. I have plenty of bad days…I’m going back to work so I can look forward to more.


----------



## tmurray

I'd be excited to hear how the inspector believes gas makes it's way into the home to run appliances if the lines cannot be inside the building.


----------



## steveray

I'm either moving to SoCal or Canda to hang with ICE or TM.......which may also be ice in da great white north der.....

We have plenty of gas meters in buildings here...They just vent the regulator out....


----------



## mtlogcabin

e hilton said:


> I'm sorry.  Having a bad day at work.  I had a choice between covering up something i should not have done (a procedural item) by glossing over it, or telling the truth and admitting to getting out of sequence.  They didn’t take it well.


The important thing is you told the truth about yourself and took responsibility for what you should not have done. A rare display of manhood and character in todays world


----------



## ICE

Over the years as an inspector I was accused of making statements to contractors and owners that were, to put it mildly, colorful.  Perhaps I was angry or maybe I just thought it was hilarious.  Now and then as I was saying something I knew I was going to get chewed out for that.  Whatever the case, on occasion, people called or wrote to complain.  

When confronted with an accusation I always owned the truth.  The net result was that managers knew that if I denied the accusation .... it didn't happen. They could rely on the fact that I had admitted to much worse accusations in the past.  "So if he says that he didn't do it, he didn't do it."


----------



## e hilton

mtlogcabin said:


> The important thing is you told the truth about yourself and took responsibility for what you should not have done. A rare display of manhood and character in todays world


So far i have not been called on the carpet over this, if/when it happens that’s going to be my defense.  I did B before A and fessed up ... i could have said i followed procedures, if someone had investigated they would have found the truth, and that would have been worse.


----------



## TheCommish

Lying about a mistake is worse than the mistake, kills all credibly


----------



## Norcal

TheCommish said:


> Lying about a mistake is worse than the mistake, kills all credibly


And usually makes the problem a lot worse.


----------



## ICE

I found this on a commercial property.  The owner said that it is a bidet.  The hardware has me believing that it was made for that purpose.  But I just can't imagine using it.  

There is food involved with the business and I wonder what a health department would think about this.


----------



## ICE

The opening is out of plumb....by a bunch.  The contractor said that I was mistaken and he used a six foot level to prove it.






We looked at the bubble and he said, "There I told you that it's okay."  I said, "It's hard to argue with a spirit level."
He might have buried it in the back yard.




I mentioned that I always check both sides of a level....so he did that.


----------



## ICE

The inspection request was for framing and rough electrical of an ADU  The person that met me is a young man that says that he is studying to become a contractor.  The plans call for shear walls wherever there is no opening.  There are no shear walls and few anchor bolts.  The only window into the bedroom is 14" wide.  Drywall screws were used on the plywood.  There is an electrical panel in a clothes closet.  There is a new roof and no attic ventilation.  No smoke or CO alarms wired.  It was 108° and I wrote 18 corrections before I noticed the drywall screws.













The young man was polite and not even a hint of upset.  I felt sorry for him.  The guy in the next post is a jerk.


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for a "meter set" which means that I have to inspect and approve the electrical.  There is a well head and pump inside the building. It took thirty minutes to get there,  The gate was open and the owner called me while I was there.  He asked me when I would release this to Edison to energize.  I said that I couldn't do that.  He said F... you and hung up.  I could have easily pushed the wobbly pole to the ground.


----------



## Norcal

If you had approved it, no way in hell would a PoCo set a meter, in PG&E territory the pole has to be PG&E approved, since SCE is under the same PUC, I would guess they have similar requirements, PG&E is rather picky about poles, including a guy wire if the drop crosses a road.


----------



## Norcal

I forgot to ask, what is on the other side of that mess?


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> I forgot to ask, what is on the other side of that mess?


A meter and disconnect.  The drop has been disconnected at the utility pole. After the FU I didn't look any further.  I did notice that there are no ground rods visible...of course the well casing might be the electrode but by the looks of it, there will be plenty of hoops after the pole is replaced.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> The inspection request was for framing and rough electrical of an ADU  The person that met me is a young man that says that he is studying to become a contractor.  The plans call for shear walls wherever there is no opening.  There are no shear walls and few anchor bolts.  The only window into the bedroom is 14" wide.  Drywall screws were used on the plywood.  There is an electrical panel in a clothes closet.  There is a new roof and no attic ventilation.  No smoke or CO alarms wired.  It was 108° and I wrote 18 corrections before I noticed the drywall screws.
> 
> The young man was polite and not even a hint of upset.  I felt sorry for him.  The guy in the next post is a jerk.


I don’t know the full story, but he sounds like the kind of person you want to help.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> A meter and disconnect.  The drop has been disconnected at the utility pole.


Where is that?   Reason i ask … i have a colleague at work who lives in Lancaster, from her description the landscape sounds like your picture.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> I don’t know the full story, but he sounds like the kind of person you want to help.


Oh he is but I was sent to that city for four days and might not be back.  I said a prayer asking that he find qualified help.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Where is that?   Reason i ask … i have a colleague at work who lives in Lancaster, from her description the landscape sounds like your picture.


Sorry but I can,t reveal locations.


----------



## ICE

3/8" rebar. The next time I spot a thrift store I am going to look for dolls and teddy bears.


----------



## my250r11

Do you Allow the drywall screws for the window flanges? Most every installation instructions I have read require a 3/8" head on the fastener. Roofing nail or pan head screw is all we allow.


----------



## Paul Sweet

ICE said:


> The opening is out of plumb....by a bunch. The contractor said that I was mistaken and he used a six foot level to prove it.


I don't feel so bad about some of my carpentry work after seeing this.


----------



## ICE

The contractor put it off on the owner to provide a ladder to inspect the RTU.  As luck would have it, the city does not allow inspectors to climb ladderrs to access a roof.  I coud see four sides and there is no 120 volt receptacle visible so I wrote the correction.  Tomorrow I will find out that the city does not require a receptacle.


----------



## ICE

The job is a 200 amp service upgrade.  The corrections are:
1. The water main at the front shall serve as an electrode.
2. Label the circuit breakers.
3. Install a bonding bushing where the armored GEC enters the cabinet.
4. Terminate the armor the protects the GEC at the fitting.
5. Install a bonding jumper at the water heater between the hot, cold and gas pipes.

The contractor asked me to release the service to Edison.  He explained that the owner has children and needs electricity.  He said that this it a typical outcome in this city.  I told him that nobody ever goes without power and to figure it out.  Before I drove away an EDISON crew showed up and commenced to energize the service. No release necessary....they didn't even talk to me.  I have one more day to do in that city....and wouldn't you know, it's a Friday.


----------



## Inspector Gadget

ICE said:


> When the inspector states that gas pipe can’t be under a slab or inside a home he has made two incorrect statements.  The lowest common denominator is what we deal with and those statements might be taken as absolute.  He should have stopped with, “A gas meter shall not be located indoors.” and included, “Obtain a plumbing permit to relocate the gas meter to the exterior.”


 Speaks to my zealous belief that any request to correct a Code violation should be accompanied with a supporting Code/standard reference.


----------



## ICE

The inspection requested was for underground conduit.  The contractor is a solar installer. 

Looking left:




At the corner:





Looking right:




A person who identified themselves as the "operations manager" called me.  He says that nobody has ever made them expose the conduit.  He asked if I knew the 15' rule which is that the conduit is only required to be visible every 15'.  Unfotunatley I have not heard of that rule.


----------



## ICE

40' of 1" thinwall 52% filled.  I included a "Be aware of a deration factor for more than three current carrying conductors in a raceway."  However, since I will not do the followup inspection, that was wasted ink.

The dreation factor is the more important of the the two corrections.  I'm pretty sure that few inspectors bother with that...especially on residential work.  Knowing that makes me wonder if it is a worthy correction or just being picky.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> 40' of 1" thinwall 90.70% filled.


Bet that was a booger to pull the wires through.  Or does the conduit magically end when it gets out of sight?


----------



## Norcal

How was that fitting sealed where it entered the top of the box, and with that much pipe fill better hope they reamed the EMT well, going to make them redo it?


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> How was that fitting sealed where it entered the top of the box, and with that much pipe fill better hope they reamed the EMT well, going to make them redo it?


Here is a picture of the EMT entry.  There is also a picture of the 3/0 service entrance conductors.   There is plenty wrong with no AFCI on the 15&20 amp branch circuits as well as no GFCI on the swimming pool pump.  I gave them a heads up about the more than three current carrying conductors in a raceway.


----------



## Norcal

Even worse then where I live. Water heater was replaced in my mom's house, I was not involved but the excess gas flow valve was installed bass ackwards & inspector never caught it.


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> I forgot to ask, what is on the other side of that mess?


I had another look at it.


----------



## ICE

And they don't know what went wrong.


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for solar.  The only information that I have is the address and the contractor's phone number....no permit....nothing but what the inspection request slip.  So as soon as I see the service panel I assume that an upgrade was included in the scope of work.  Luckily, the owner was present and he informed me that the service panel is several years old and it passed a final inspection.


----------



## fatboy

Based on the cleanliness of the water closet and surroundings, I wonder if the health department had been there in a while.


----------



## MtnArch

ICE said:


> I had another look at it.
> 
> View attachment 9323
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 9324
> 
> 
> View attachment 9325
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 9327


Ahh .. they used the "newly approved" Simpson Strong(electrical)Tie to bind them together (patent pending) ...


----------



## ICE

Corrections that make no sense:





This correction was written during a re-roof sheathing inspection.  The existing transite vents were disallowed.






This correction only applies to vertical walls.  

As mtlogcabin pointed out in another thread, any framing that is less than 60° from horizontal is not a wall.  Any wall less than 90° from horizontal is not vertical.  My guess is that nearly all walls are not vertical.


----------



## ICE

Pictures sent to me by an inspector.  The cabinet has been mounted over a hole in the wall with conductors leaving through the back wall.  There has been a dismal effort to fix that.


----------



## Norcal

Another shake my head set of photos & ask what were they thinking? But that is the problem they were not, I have never had much use for EMT 90° fittings, and if they enter a cover as it looks it does, how does one access it? The EMT connector used as a substitute chase nipple, & the Myers type hub substituting for the proper bolted hub are sloppy choices, that fit in with the rest of the work.  How is the damaged stucco going to be repaired?


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for solar....but not this solar array.  This array was previously approved along with an electric service panel upgrade.  The PV wire is laying on the roof.  There is an armored GEC running under the rafter tails.





They pointed out that the ground clamp was in bad shape so they replaced it. 





Apparently water behind vinyl siding is not an issue.


----------



## steveray

ICE said:


> Apparently water behind vinyl siding is not an issue.


Nope....the WRB is behind it....Theoretically.....


----------



## Paul Sweet

Reminds me of a motel I stayed in many years ago.


----------



## ICE

Six feet of shear wall.  I mentioned that there is a problem.  The workman called the contractor.  Contractor says that he has a letter from the engineer that blesses this.






Big bundle in a big hole.





One pipe clamp and one drywall screw.


----------



## ICE

They might have learned about bundled cable today.


----------



## ICE

Half of the house has a new framed roof.  The request was for roof sheathing.  The contractor says that he uses the step ladder to access the roof.....mainly because ...well that's the ladder that he has..


----------



## ICE

I said that there is no sediment trap.  There was a previous inspection when the inspector wrote a correction to install a sediment trap.  The animated owner protested that there is a sediment trap right behind the Unistrut.  He's right and it's wrong.










I mentioned that the cloth straps are cutting into the duct he got a little more tense.  When I commented that there's no attic ventilation to support combustion....the F work came out and he told me to leave.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> One pipe clamp and one drywall screw.


Since the loose end of a one hole conduit strap doesn't return all the way to the stud, and theoretically a cable could come loose … is it acceptable?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Since the loose end of a one hole conduit strap doesn't return all the way to the stud, and theoretically a cable could come loose … is it acceptable?


No


----------



## ICE

Paul Sweet said:


> Reminds me of a motel I stayed in many years ago.


That took as long to do as the rest of the building.


----------



## Beniah Naylor

ICE, I am curious... when you do inspections, do you call out violations as you see them, or do you make a list and hit the worker/contractor/owner with a big list all at once at the end of the inspection?


----------



## steveray

e hilton said:


> Since the loose end of a one hole conduit strap doesn't return all the way to the stud, and theoretically a cable could come loose … is it acceptable?


Depends...Could come out of stackers too...It only needs to hold the cable until the drywall goes on....And then it does not need to be supported at all...


----------



## e hilton

steveray said:


> ....And then it does not need to be supported at all...


Whoa.  If code calls for electrical cable to be supported within 12” of an outlet … are you saying that only applies until the drywallmis installed?


----------



## Beniah Naylor

steveray said:


> Depends...Could come out of stackers too...It only needs to hold the cable until the drywall goes on....And then it does not need to be supported at all...


The only NEC section that specifically addresses this particular situation is 110.2. If they bent the fitting a little so that the NM cannot feasibly escape, it is both supported and secured. There is no requirement to use any particular method of support, or even a listed method of support. 2020 NEC 334.30.

NM is allowed to be fished in concealed spaces where you can't get in to support the cable without removing drywall per 334.30(B)(1).


----------



## mtlogcabin

I find it hard to believe contractors are still using these. However I see they still cannot install them properly. 120 ft long building and every one was installed like this.


----------



## steveray

e hilton said:


> Whoa.  If code calls for electrical cable to be supported within 12” of an outlet … are you saying that only applies until the drywallmis installed?


See the last part of post #5084 from Beniah...


----------



## e hilton

steveray said:


> See the last part of post #5084 from Beniah...


Saw that.  But that applies after the drywall is up.  Why can’t you run all the wiring unsupported, and tell the inspector it will be compliant when he can’t see it?


----------



## steveray

I am just saying that it is foolish to pick nits...If ICE was teaching them a lesson, Shirley I understand that too...


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> I am just saying that it is foolish to pick nits...If ICE was teaching them a lesson, Shirley I understand that too...


It's more like, "Picking fly shlt out of the pepper."

Look at the pictures.  The electrical work was a cluster of corrections.  As to the pipe clamps....they are everywhere and the few staples that I found were over-driven.  I told them to remove the pipe clamps and I explained what 4.5' on center means.  I had to school them about bundling, cable clamps and shear walls and why the foam is only supposed to be used at plate lines.  So yes the pepper is cleaner but I still wouldn't use it.


----------



## ICE

Beniah Naylor said:


> ICE, I am curious... when you do inspections, do you call out violations as you see them, or do you make a list and hit the worker/contractor/owner with a big list all at once at the end of the inspection?


It goes both ways.  It depends on how busy I am.  If I am pressed for time I will give them a list at the end and I may not even have time to explain the corrections.


----------



## ICE

The permit states, "Convert garage back to it's original condition---Remove roof covering to the sheathing-replace roofing----Remove addition to the back of the garage and replace the back wall.

The roofn structure was replaced.  The back wall has become an opening.  





There is a trailer under all that stuff.  I know that because I saw a foot of tongue stiking out of the pile.


----------



## ICE

The permit states, "Legalize bathroom."  That means that there is a bathroom that had no inspections.
The raised platform is a shower stall.




The square patch is the shower drain.









The owner insisted that my supervisor has already approved this mess.  The proof is the approved plans and permit.  I tried to convince them they have an approval to have a bathroom....just not this bathroom.


----------



## steveray

I am soooo stealing this:



ICE said:


> It's more like, "Picking fly shlt out of the pepper."



I have local electrical inspectors that fail 3 NM cables under a blue staple because the staple isn't listed for that even though the securing and support method doesn't need to be listed....I advise the electricians to put in an 8d nail and bend it over and see how the inspector likes that....


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> I advise the electricians to put in an 8d nail and bend it over and see how the inspector likes that....


I’ve seen and failed that.


----------



## ICE

The inspection waqs for a water heater changeout.  The expansion tank is against the vent.  I can't say for sure that the heat from the vent would have an effect on the expansion tank.  I can say that there should be six inch separation....so I did.







The gas shutoff valve is against the wall and I think that it should be facing the other way....so I said that too.










An extra valve is probably not violation....well unless it's 72 years old....so I asked them to remove it.


----------



## ICE

Somebody thought that O would want to go on the roof to inspect a solar array.  That has me wondering if any inspectors do that.


----------



## ICE

The inspection requested was for solar and a service panel upgrade.  The service panel is still in the carton.  That's a good thing because it's a surface mount and the existing is a flush mount with a lateral feed.  The utility co. was pulling away as I arrived.  They cut the power and the contractor stated thatb the poco would return later that day to restore power.  This was the first day that I worked in that city so I called the BO to ask if the poco needs a release prior to energizing and he said yes.  I guess that the occupants will be eating out and going to bed early tonight.

For the twenty-five years that I worked for LA County there was less than five occasions where the electrician didn't restore the power while waiting for an inspection.  Another city that I recently worked in lets the POCO energize and wait for an inspection.


----------



## ICE

Since I have become an employee of a third party inspection company I have experienced several city building departments.  There is a stark difference between them.  Yesterday I had twelve addresses to visit for an inspection. Nine times, they were just getting started or they were not there at all.  A TI requested rough framing and MEPS.  The only people at the site was two guys hanging drywall...they were better than half way completed.  Post #5,097 is another example. 

This temp power pole was another.  Even though the city will not allow me to remove a deadfront,  I would not ask the contractor to show up for a TPP inspection but as you can see, he should have been there.

Here's another quirk.  I have been to four cities in the month that I have been working for this company and one city stands out.....nearly every site has a Blue Room, otherwise known as a Porta-Potty  ....even re-roofing....

I like not having a permanent assignment.  I fill temporary holes in inspection staff.  They're happy to see me, coming and going.  Some, but not all get upset when I complete the inspections by noon.  I get where they are coming from, them being government employees and all.

When I worked at the County there was a permit tech with twenty years in.  She had a full plate for sure.  Her mentally challenged (retarded for the un-woke among you) sister lived with her.  She had to take her sister to a care facility daily..  Well the care facility changed up their hours and set her back thirty minutes.  So she couldn't get to work on time.  The other techs and staff understood the situation and knew about her paralyzed husband, elderly mother and HC sister so they willingly filled the gap.  

Management was not so understanding.  Management required her to stay thirty minutes after closing to make up the time. She offered to use sick and vacation time but was told no.  She would be left in the dark storefront office, by herself and then have to make it to her car .... in a horrible neighborhood. She sat at her desk with the lights turned of....contemplating her lot in life.  What a rotten thing to do to her.  So now I am making up for that transgression.  

In retrospect I shame myself for not having sat with her to see to it that she made it to her car unmolested.  It went on for many months....a year maybe.


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> The inspection waqs for a water heater changeout.  The expansion tank is against the vent.  I can't say for sure that the heat from the vent would have an effect on the expansion tank.  I can say that there should be six inch separation....so I did.
> 
> 
> View attachment 9408


Should the expansion tank be vertical?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Should the expansion tank be vertical?


It's been a while since I read installation instructions for an expansion tank.  As I recall some were stricter than others but I'm pretty sure that any orientation is acceptable.  I might be wrong about that but the truth is that the expansion tank is a waste of money.


----------



## ICE

Nice pool.




Somebody is going to be disappointed.  And don't you know they will say, "That's where the plans show the equipment." The implication will be that it is the fault of the Building Department for approving the plans.


----------



## ICE

I was there for a lath inspection.


----------



## e hilton

Different budgets than some of the pictures you posted a year ago.


----------



## Inspector Gadget

mtlogcabin said:


> I find it hard to believe contractors are still using these. However I see they still cannot install them properly. 120 ft long building and every one was installed like this.
> 
> View attachment 9392



I was actually surprised they didn't use wood screws.


----------



## Norcal

Inspector Gadget said:


> I was actually surprised they didn't use wood screws.


Worse yet, drywall screws.


----------



## MtnArch

ICE said:


> Nice pool.
> 
> View attachment 9420
> 
> 
> Somebody is going to be disappointed.  And don't you know they will say, "That's where the plans show the equipment." The implication will be that it is the fault of the Building Department for approving the plans.
> 
> View attachment 9421
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 9424


My first drafting job was for a pool company.  I don't recall ever having to note where the electrical meter or panel was.  The biggest issues the jurisdictions were worried about way back when was proximity to the property lines and the house.


----------



## ICE

On Tuesday I wrote corrections on the electrical.  That included bundled cable, the compromised shear panel, the bunch of cable through a hole, and then on to the fly shlt stuff.

Thie is what it looked like on Teusday.








I worked in a different city on Wednesday.  On Thursday I was back for a lath inspections as everything that I had flagged on Teusday was approved by another inspector on Wednesday.

This is how it looks now.  At some point there wil;l be a request for an inspection that will include the service panel.  I probably will not have to deal with that because I only get sent when there is inspection staff missing .


----------



## ICE

MtnArch said:


> My first drafting job was for a pool company.  I don't recall ever having to note where the electrical meter or panel was.  The biggest issues the jurisdictions were worried about way back when was proximity to the property lines and the house.


You are correct.  I never see that on a plan.  I convinced the last County office that I worked in to require the plans to show where overhead utility service drops came on to the property.  You could get some idea of where the panel was located.


----------



## ICE

As I walked up to the building I surmised that the windows were improperly flashed.  It looks as though the flashing is over the nail flange.





Even as I got closer.





I wrote a correction and as I was getting ready to move on a lady drove up.  I say lady to be nice but most men are less profane to my face than she was.  I was informed that I was incorrect.  So I got real close and discovered that the nail flange is white and white caulk has been applied over the flange.


----------



## ICE

The permit stated, "20 ton AC on roof." "Like for like, 150 pounds.".  The roof is the second story of an apartment building.  There was a single correction written, "Max fuse 25amp"
 I am not sure how that inspector got there with the ladder that was provided for me.  I didn't get closer than 30' away.


----------



## ICE

I see patterns.  Certain violations will be a common occurrence.  Here is one.  I would like an opinion from the forum members.  The cluster of cable in the single clamp is a code violation.  I am convinced that some electricians and a few inspectors are aware of the violation. However, is that code violation not worth writing given the work it takes to correct the violation?







The clamp does not secure the cables.  It’s just a convenient hole.


----------



## ICE

Three exhaust fans are crammed into the opening for a turbine roof vent.  As luck would have it, they need not be supported as a friction fit seems to do the job well enough.


----------



## north star

*# ~ #*

*Yes, the cramming together of multiple conductor assemblies,
in one location, is a Code violation, and therefore the
conductors would need to be: (1) derated or (2) provide much
more spacing of the assemblies, so that [ some ] air will be
able to circulate around them.

Yes, I would encourage you to cite the discrepancy, along with
the Electrical Code Articles that are applicable.,,,,,,IMO, if you
do not cite the violation, the various contractors will consider
this an approved installation, and therefore a precedent will
have been set.

Let the violators figure out how to make the install compliant.
Also, IMO, ...you must at least try to be accurate in the application
of your duties !*

*# ~ #*


----------



## e hilton

ICE said:


> The cluster of cable in the single clamp is a code violation.


Is it still a violation if they didn’t tighten the clamp screws?   
:}


----------



## Norcal

ICE said:


> The cluster of cable in the single clamp is a code violation.


With that panel design and a large number of cables entering it, there is no other way except a large Romex® connector to bring them in, they could have at least snugged it up instead of leaving it loose. That is one of the weak points of the meter main panels like that, rather then the East Coast style of the meter can outside & the panel inside.


----------



## steveray

Derating yes, securing, maybe...NM needs to be supported within 12" of the box, not necessarily at the box...Right? 334.30...I know there is something else there, but Shirley one of the sparkys will correct me....


----------



## Beniah Naylor

I do not believe they need to be derated because they are not bundled for more than 24". However, the clamp is not listed for that many conductors, and is thusly a violation. I have written it up, but the only possible hazard I see is the cables rubbing on the exposed screw threads.


----------



## Norcal

Beniah Naylor said:


> I do not believe they need to be derated because they are not bundled for more than 24". However, the clamp is not listed for that many conductors, and is thusly a violation. I have written it up, but the only possible hazard I see is the cables rubbing on the exposed screw threads.


Still goes back to the design of that panel leaving no other option but stuff a bunch of cables into a larger Romex® connector.


----------



## ICE

312.5(C) Cables.
Where cable is used, each cable shall be secured to the cabinet, cutout box, or meter socket enclosure.


This is from the handbook:




This is something that every electrician should learn early in their career. If they learn it from me it’s a bitter pill to swallow.  I am okay with that.  The rub is that it can be such a bitch to fix.  The workman wants to hear from me why fifteen cables in a clamp is a safety issue worth the grief.   I hear, “Can you let it goe this time?”  If I let it go this time why would the correction have any merit next time….and there will be a next time.


----------



## steveray

Is it a cabinet? Or just a panelboard? We don't get a whole lot of cabinets in houses here...Unless they are not metal...


----------



## ICE

steveray said:


> Is it a cabinet? Or just a panelboard? We don't get a whole lot of cabinets in houses here...Unless they are not metal...


The paneboard is in a cabinet…cutout box..

UL has the following definition (UL White Book CYIV):
_This category covers sheet-metal boxes and nonmetallic boxes. Cutout boxes are provided with a door secured by hinges and one or more fasteners and are intended for surface mounting. A cabinet consists of two parts:
a cabinet box and a mating cabinet front that contains a door. A cabinet may be flush mounted or surface mounted. These boxes are intended for installation in accordance with Article 312 of ANSI/NFPA 70, ‘‘National Electrical Code.’’_


----------



## Norcal

Commentary from the handbook is not enforceable, & there still is no way to do what you are saying with a large number of cables, there is physically not enough room to have individual Romex® connectors.  Might be time to ban that style of panel.


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> Commentary from the handbook is not enforceable, & there still is no way to do what you are saying with a large number of cables, there is physically not enough room to have individual Romex® connectors.  Might be time to ban that style of panel.


The handbook is someone's opinion of what is enforceable.  There's two ends to the cabinet and both ends provide KOs.  On top, or bottom, of that is the use of a Greenlee punch.   

If that cabinet won't work....oh well....try another.


----------



## north star

*# ~ # ~ #

The whole idea of convenience to the contractors is*
*more valued than Code compliance, seems to be the
politically & culturally correct norms.........Enforcement
of the legally adopted Codes & Standards, for some,*
*...seems to be in theory only.

Hammurabi had the same issues in his day too !

# ~ # ~ #*


----------



## tmurray

ICE said:


> 312.5(C) Cables.
> Where cable is used, each cable shall be secured to the cabinet, cutout box, or meter socket enclosure.
> 
> 
> This is from the handbook:
> 
> View attachment 9448
> 
> 
> This is something that every electrician should learn early in their career. If they learn it from me it’s a bitter pill to swallow.  I am okay with that.  The rub is that it can be such a bitch to fix.  The workman wants to hear from me why fifteen cables in a clamp is a safety issue worth the grief.   I hear, “Can you let it goe this time?”  If I let it go this time why would the correction have any merit next time….and there will be a next time.


I don't do electrical, but I've seen hundreds of panels here and have never seen more than one wire per knockout (that I've noticed I guess). Moreover, I have not seen cables bundled at all. wires are individually run down the wall, stapled, and run at a right angle into to panel one by one.


----------



## redeyedfly

tmurray said:


> I don't do electrical, but I've seen hundreds of panels here and have never seen more than one wire per knockout (that I've noticed I guess). Moreover, I have not seen cables bundled at all. wires are individually run down the wall, stapled, and run at a right angle into to panel one by one.


Must be a local thing.  I see multiple wires per KO clamp typically all coming out the top.  The very common 3/8" cable clamps allow up to (3) 14/2 in one clamp.


----------



## ICE

The only information available is:  There is no permit.


----------



## MtnArch

ICE said:


> The only information available is:  There is no permit.
> 
> View attachment 9488
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 9489


Easy Christmas light access!  Looks like some of the outrigger ends may need to be cut off at the fascia line, too.


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for a final of a water main to an apartment building.  The pipe size has increased so the original ground clamp is too small.  For that reason, the plumber ignored the clamp.  I had to tell him to replace the clamp.





The plumber installed almost the correct clamp.  It is not too much worse than the original clamp so it is acceptable...well that and the armor is short.  I then had to tell the plumber to seal the wall.





He took care of it.  The clamp picture and the caulk picture were sent to my phone so no return trips were necessary.


----------



## ICE

The job is a furnace and AC.

The contractor and the owner were both upset because they had to wait for me to arrive.  The story is that today was the fourth inspection.  The AC has no equipment ground with the feeder.  The equipment ground from the condenser to the disconnect is a red wire with white tape.

The dwelling is so large that it has to be called a dwelling and not a house.  There is a furnace and I know that because there is a correction regarding a sediment trap and the apparently the B-vent has a downward slope.  The contractor's representative didn't know where the attic access is located so no ladder was set up....or perhaps he thought I was just going to sign off on the job since this was the fourth inspection.

Thje owner showed us a two by two foot plywood hatch in the garage wall and said that the furnace is behind that.  He had to move a car that was in the way of where the ladder had to be but after five minutes of failing to start the car he summoned his wife and she started the car.  He said that the car knows the difference between him and her.  Well then the workman removed a bunch of screws and the plywood.  He said that he sees nothing but duct for about thirty feet and then there is a turn.  So the furnace must be around the bend.  I didn't go looking for it.  

I told the workman that his company has no room to complain but the owner had removed himself and got the message from the correction slip.  I anticipate a complaint.  

Oh and to get to the AC disconnect it was a tight squeeze between two condensers, a tree and some bushes.  My back got scratched and my shirt was torn. Had I been the first inspector that would have been the first correction.


----------



## ICE

The inspection was for a swimming pool final.  The car gate is the barrier to the pool.  The car gate was approved at the pre-plaster inspection.  The contractor stated that a condition of approval is that the gate be electric and close automaticaly with a thirty second delay.  There will be thirty seconds to get the car past the gate because it will close ...blocked or not.  I found plenty of other corrections so I didn't have to turn it down just because of the gate.






The panel is held up by an 1.5" pvc pipe.  It will move with the wind.  Well until the two sheet metal screws pull out.





The junction box has already bent to the wind.


----------



## ICE

It's supporting a pretty large deck.


----------



## steveray

What's a little eccentric loading between friends?


----------



## ICE

This thread became soooo off topic that I placed a reply here where it wouldn't matter.

The topic became what a lousy inspector does when he's bored.  If you don't believe me take a look at the thread.

Here is an example of a no code violation, violation.

The inspection was for a reroof final.  The two halves of the building come together in a less than attractive manner.  The valley is skewed to the left.  It should start at the top in the picture and the bottom should line up near the rear tire on the truck.  The structure is not balanced ... the feng shui is whacked.




You can see that the valley was cut from the right side.....the side that leans into the flow.  Can I get a code for that wrong way this was done?  Help me out with that.

The correction said, "Create a valley that sheds water instead of bucking water."  Sheds and bucking are not found in the code as they relate to a roof valley.

Had the cut been made coming from the left the only wrong would be the ugly.  So there you have it.  I didn't invent a code but I did write a correction with no code (so far).

The inspection was yesterday at a city where I was a temp so I’ll not find out if the contractor complied.


----------



## e hilton

I have never seen ridge caps folded over like that.


----------



## ICE

The job is a bathroom remodel.  The plan is to install a receptacle in the back of a drawer.  The cord is robust.  The contractor claims to have done it many times.


----------



## e hilton

We have done that many times in commercial (retail) millwork.  It sounds great on paper, in practice it's not as successful for a convenience outlet.  Works ok for a charging station.


----------



## ICE

Three mini-splits have been wired with cord in raceway, outdoors.




There is an ADU.  The house and ADU now have a sub-panel.  The old service has been converted to a j-box. You have to remove the hinges to gain access to the j-box.


----------



## e hilton

At least the cover on the LB won’t fall off.


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> At least the cover on the LB won’t fall off.


I didn’t notice that….The set screw EMT had my attention.  This is why I relish posting pictures.  The job was a final inspection for an ADU.  I wrote twenty corrections and the changes coming to the electrical might be worth the return trip.....but my time in thst city is short so I'll never see it.


----------



## ICE

This picture was taken at around 10:00 am.  By noon it might be at 100%.   Trees were removed to accommodate the array.


----------



## ICE

The scope of work is remove wall finish down to studs, insulation, plywood sheathing and lap siding.  The insulation is installed inside out.


----------



## Plumb-bob

ICE said:


> The scope of work is remove wall finish down to studs, insulation, plywood sheathing and lap siding.  The insulation is installed inside out.
> 
> View attachment 9551


I see diagonal bracing let into the studs, is this in addition to plywood sheathing because of seismic?


----------



## ICE

Plumb-bob said:


> I see diagonal bracing let into the studs, is this in addition to plywood sheathing because of seismic?


I think that the plywood is two things: 1. It will help provide a smooth, straight base for the Hardi-Plank.  2. The result of an ambitious salesman.  Oops, salesman is not a word.  Salesperson implies human form and that isn't much better.  So allow me to change the wording to "entity that sells".

The plywood will stiffen the structure immensely.....but depending on the anchorage to the foundation as well as the robustness of the foundation, that might be a mistake.  You can make a strong box that will break loose of the foundation.  Once the building is a few feet away from the foundation you can't flush the toilet so it's time to move elsewhere.


----------



## ICE

This is a universal issue.  There is a swimming pool excavation:





And nothing to keep the neighborhood away from the excavation:


----------



## redeyedfly

ICE said:


> The scope of work is remove wall finish down to studs, insulation, plywood sheathing and lap siding.  The insulation is installed inside out.
> 
> View attachment 9551


Don't you want the vapor retarder on the exterior in most of CA?


----------



## ICE

redeyedfly said:


> Don't you want the vapor retarder on the exterior in most of CA?


I can’t speak for most of California but here in southern Ca. The vapor retarder faces the conditioned space.


----------



## Paul Sweet

The only time it's good for the vapor retarder to face the exterior is in hot humid areas, such as the southeast US near the coast.


----------



## ICE

The water main at the front of the dwelling is metal pipe coming out of the ground.  This is a connection from the gtround bus to a hose bib at the side of the house.  Note that the pipe has been painted and the paint was not removed inder the clamp.

That presents two violations.  The GEC shall be connected within five feet of where the water main enters the building and the paint shall be removed.  I have heard the argument that since the water main is buried I can't assume that it is metal pipe and therefor I can't write the correction.  That has come from both contractors and inspectors.







Just how critical is the code on this?  I can't say for sure but I can relate an experience that I had:
An owner called me to ask why he was getting a shock when he is in the shower.  The cause turned out to be a deteriorated neutral connection in a neighboring service panel.  The current from the neighbor's service was searching for a better, or any, path back to the transformer.  The owners water main was one path and since electricity will take every path that is available, he was in a path. Thankfully the resistance of that circuit was high enough to limit the number of electrons that were set to vibration mode.
The owner that called had the same setup as pictured.  Would there have been no shocking shower experience had the GEC gone to the water main within five feet?  I am not smart enough to know the answer to that.


----------



## redeyedfly

ICE said:


> I can’t speak for most of California but here in southern Ca. The vapor retarder faces the conditioned space.


Climate Zone 3? It doesn't matter where you put the vapor retarder, probably better to not include it in the assembly at all.  But if I were to add it, it would be most useful on the exterior IMO.


----------



## Norcal

I see only 1ground rod, do you have the results verifying that there is 25 Ohms of resistance or less? If not they need another rod to be driven.


----------



## Rick18071

Looks like plastic pipe. They need a plastic ground connector.


----------



## ICE

I was there for a followup inspection of corrections.  This was not one of them.













Kindling built in.


----------



## ICE

Rick18071 said:


> Looks like plastic pipe. They need a plastic ground connector.


Somehow I don't think that's plastic.


----------



## Norcal

ICE said:


> Somehow I don't think that's plastic.


I agree, copper with a thick coating of paint.


----------



## ICE

Norcal said:


> I see only 1ground rod, do you have the results verifying that there is 25 Ohms of resistance or less? If not they need another rod to be driven.


There’s another rod twenty feet from this one.


----------



## Norcal

The black tape was a nice touch on those NM cables, that works to fix a nic in the sheathing when the conductors are undamaged, but since the sheathing needs to extend 1/4" past the connector they need to come up with a fix. based on the underground feed, my guess the Siemens replaced a Zinsco because the panel was on top & that would explain the condition of the cables & that they could not raise the panel to accommodate the sheathing being shy. Cutler-Hammer used to build a underground semi-flush & a surface mount meter main that would have been a almost direct replacement, going from the worst panel made, to what used to be the best quality residential panel, after 1994 Eaton has been pushing the Zinsco II (BR) panels.

I can only see a few possible fixes, 1) J-box in the attic if accessible,  but would likely trigger AFCI requirements, if more then 6' of cable was required to add the box.  2) Slip a piece of intact NM cable over each cable & use heat shrink to make sure it stays in place, there looks that originally there were enough 1/2" KO's to accommodate 2-12/2 NM cables per connector, but there is still the 1 NM & 2 SER cables to enter the box.


----------



## ICE

The job is replace fifty-five windows and eight doors. I have not been there before yesterday.  I called the contractor for a security gate code.  He explained that the windows have been inspected and approved but there was an issue with a water leak.  The leak turned out to be a roofing defect.  He said that a letter and emails have been sent to the Building Official and I was there simply to sign the job card.

So I'm thinking, "Why didn't you bring the job card to the office for a signature."  When I get there the tenant leads me to the kitchen where the job card sits on the counter.  That is when I saw the window.  The sill is nine inches above the floor and the drop to the pool deck is from a third floor. 

I called the contractor to inquire about safety glazing because I couldn't find the info etched on the glass.  I then mentioned the need for fall protection.  The contractor didn't know that fall protection is required.  The tenant said that he puts a chair in front of the window when it is open.  The tenant should be the window contractor.

I'm pretty sure that the City Building Department will not ask me to return any time soon.


----------



## ICE

This is a service entrance raceway.  CEC Section 250.92 disallows this type of fitting unless there is a bonding method employed.


----------



## ICE

We require a jumper between the cold, hot and gas pipes.  But not like this.


----------



## Msradell

ICE said:


> We require a jumper between the cold, hot and gas pipes.  But not like this.
> 
> View attachment 9567
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 9568


The only thing you can say is that the contractor at least realized that bonding was Req!


----------



## ICE

It had to be difficult to install the cabinet with hardly enough room to fit it in the hole.  Somebody knew what was happening but then someone else dropped the ball.  Makes me wonder if it was purposeful.
...


----------



## ICE

This picture was sent to my phone by another inspector.  The gutter is mounted over a hole in the stucco.  The work was performed by a solar contractor.


----------



## Norcal

You can't reidentify a white conductor in a conduit as a ungrounded conductor, that is only allowed as part of a cable assembly such as NM, MC, nor can someone remove the sheathing of NM cable & use the indiv. conductors, since they are not marked, one can guess they are THHN conductors, but cannot prove they are.


----------



## ICE

The king and trimmer studs along with the sill have been removed to make room for a service panel.







The cut edge of the drywall is visible.   As ridiculous as this is, what could they have possibly had in mind for keeping water out of the cavity?


----------



## ICE




----------



## Rick18071

A lot of rocks under, around and over the piping, no good. I see tape over the openings, do you require a pressure test on pool piping as required in the ISPSC?


----------



## ICE

Rick18071 said:


> A lot of rocks under, around and over the piping, no good. I see tape over the openings, do you require a pressure test on pool piping as required in the ISPSC?


The pipes that have tape originate in this device.  I don't know what it does.  It is not part of the pressurized system. While the process pipe is always under pressure at the pre-gunite inspection, we do not inspect it as it is not associated with a potable water system. CPC prohibits pressurizing plastic pipe with air.


----------



## Rick18071

Does anyone require a pressure test on the pool piping as required in the ISPSC?


----------



## ICE

Rick18071 said:


> Does anyone require a pressure test on the pool piping as required in the ISPSC?





			https://www.phta.org/pub/?id=F1E8158C-1866-DAAC-99FB-65270753FE36
		


That is a chart showing where the ISPSC has been adopted. (by state, county and city)
I haven’t worked in a jurisdiction that enforces the ISPSC.  There’s 35 in Ca. So it might happen.


----------



## phillier937

Seems worth sharing - this came from the fire marshal.  Appears to be a flexible duct from an outdoor wood burning stove to a box over the resident's chair.


----------



## wwhitney

ICE said:


> _300.34 Conductor Bending Radius. The conductor shall not be bent to a radius less than 8 times the overall diameter....4/0 wire is 5/8"....5/8" x 8 x2 = 10" diameter circle._


The above section is in Part II of Article 300, and Part II only applies to conductors over 1000 volts.  The NEC has no numerical requirement on bending radius of individual conductors under 1000V.  Article 314 does have a requirement on the bending space to leave at terminations in cabinets.

Cheers, Wayne


----------



## ICE

wwhitney said:


> The above section is in Part II of Article 300, and Part II only applies to conductors over 1000 volts.  The NEC has no numerical requirement on bending radius of individual conductors under 1000V.  Article 314 does have a requirement on the bending space to leave at terminations in cabinets.
> 
> Cheers, Wayne


You are correct.


----------



## wwhitney

Norcal said:


> With that panel design and a large number of cables entering it, there is no other way except a large Romex® connector to bring them in


This connector will let you bring (6) typical NM cables into a single 3/4" KO.  Given the extra width, you might only be able to use a single row of KOs on the top the cabinet:






						Mighty-Merge® Transition Fittings. 3/4" Multi-NM Connector
					

The 630-NM2 allows for multiple nonmetallic cables to be installed into a single 3/4" KO. Simply squeeze the tabs to install or remove the cables. They’re perfect for prefabrication of bundles of nonmetallic cable. These fittings provide a huge labor savi




					www.bptfittings.com
				




Also, per this chart, Arlington NM844 will let you bring (10) 12/2 cables into a 1-1/4" KO.



			https://www.aifittings.com/reference/files/pdf/charts/nm-cable-ranges.pdf
		


Cheers, Wayne


----------



## ICE

wwhitney said:


> This connector will let you bring (6) typical NM cables into a single 3/4" KO.  Given the extra width, you might only be able to use a single row of KOs on the top the cabinet:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mighty-Merge® Transition Fittings. 3/4" Multi-NM Connector
> 
> 
> The 630-NM2 allows for multiple nonmetallic cables to be installed into a single 3/4" KO. Simply squeeze the tabs to install or remove the cables. They’re perfect for prefabrication of bundles of nonmetallic cable. These fittings provide a huge labor savi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bptfittings.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, per this chart, Arlington NM844 will let you bring (10) 12/2 cables into a 1-1/4" KO.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.aifittings.com/reference/files/pdf/charts/nm-cable-ranges.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers, Wayne


Wayne,
Is there a listing associated with the NM844?  If the answer is yes I would suppose that the (10)12/ 2 would be legal.  If there is no listing it is up to the inspector.  That type of fitting is prone to loose cables.....The cable is not secured well.  Toss in one round cable and it goes away....include a 10/3 and where are you on the chart?  It is plastic.....The smarter electricians use metal fittings....







If I may ask, how long has it taken you to get through the Average Day thread?


----------



## wwhitney

ICE said:


> Is there a listing associated with the NM844?


Well, all I can easily say is that the Arlington catalog page shows the UL listed symbol next to the product:



			http://www.aimedia.co/media/catalog-pages/C-8-1.pdf
		




ICE said:


> It is plastic.....The smarter electricians use metal fittings....


Do you know of a metal, listed fitting that would let you bring 10 NM cables through a single KO?



ICE said:


> If I may ask, how long has it taken you to get through the Average Day thread?


I think I started over a week ago, reading it on and off.  I skimmed a lot of the text, mostly focusing on the train wreck pictures.

Cheers, Wayne


----------



## Norcal

wwhitney said:


> Well, all I can easily say is that the Arlington catalog page shows the UL listed symbol next to the product:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.aimedia.co/media/catalog-pages/C-8-1.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know of a metal, listed fitting that would let you bring 10 NM cables through a single KO?
> 
> 
> I think I started over a week ago, reading it on and off.  I skimmed a lot of the text, *mostly focusing on the train wreck pictures.*
> 
> Cheers, Wayne


That is one thing about this thread, a LOT of train wrecks.


----------



## ICE

There's a couple of similar threads...smaller....  The pictures start out polluted with a water mark.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.






						Average day 5-15-13
					

This is the pole that Edison is going to replace.    This is how they dig a hole for the new pole.  That's a vacuum truck.      The hole is cut with high pressure water and the wet dirt is sucked up.    If I can get by there tomorrow, I'll get pictures of the crane.....it is huge.



					www.thebuildingcodeforum.com
				









						Not an average day
					

What's so special about a freeway sign?    I could have gotten closer but I didn't want to cut myself.



					www.thebuildingcodeforum.com
				





_"Do you know of a metal, listed fitting that would let you bring 10 NM cables through a single KO?"_
No.  To be honest, I really don't know a whole lot about electrical stuff like fittings etc.  And more....When you brought up the mistake that I made with wire bending radius I went looking for a code that would help and found none.  So there I was again, shooting from the hip.  Oh well I had the right idea.


----------



## Inspector Gadget

https://drive.google.com/file/d/101LzyVAJgmm5EK32E8Z3tq-N9qmr5lln/view?usp=share_link


----------



## ICE

Inspector Gadget said:


> https://drive.google.com/file/d/101LzyVAJgmm5EK32E8Z3tq-N9qmr5lln/view?usp=share_link


I can't get the link to open.


----------



## Inspector Gadget

ICE said:


> I can't get the link to open.


Hmm. I can't seem to upload an image. Not sure what to do ....


----------



## ICE

This is the message I get.  I click on the "request Access" button and nothing happens.


----------



## Inspector Gadget

Well, crud. Can't delete/edit original message either.


----------



## ICE

I have been writing a story that includes the solar industry.  Part of that is the habit of installing solar where it doesn't belong.  At noon yesterday I came across this.  It faces Southwest.


----------



## Plumb-bob

All of the codes and standards in the world cannot anticipate the stupid human element.


----------



## tmurray

I'm sure they were fine until the trees grew.


----------



## e hilton

Probably work well in the winter when the leaves are off the trees.  
Right?


----------



## ICE

e hilton said:


> Probably work well in the winter when the leaves are off the trees.
> Right?


Those are evergreen.


----------



## Inspector Gadget

Plumb-bob said:


> All of the codes and standards in the world cannot anticipate the stupid human element.


If people were reasonable, detail oriented and able to follow building Codes ....


... I'd be out of a job.


----------



## ICE

Management Skills 101

The job was an electric service upgrade.  The panel was on the rear of the dwelling.  Four Lhasa Apso dogs lived there.  The dogs would be at my feet barking incessantly and jumping on me.  I asked the owner to put the dogs up to no avail.  Unfortunately I had to write corrections that would result in another inspection.

Weeks later I was in the office when an inspector called to report an incident.  He had been at that address performing an inspection when one of the dogs jumped up and bit him.  The dog caught his pants and held on.  The inspector hit the dog with his aluminum ticket holder.  The dog was out cold when he left.  The skin was not broken.....on either one.

An hour later I hear the student worker asking me to take line three.  The caller was the dog owner.  He was angry.  He described the incident as the inspector nailed the dog simply because it was barking and jumping on him.  Which in all honesty, knowing the inspector, that was not entirely impossible.  But hey now, I’m pretty sure he was asked to put the dogs up first.

The owner wanted to file a claim against the County

Anyway I told the owner that the inspector said that he was bitten.  I asked him if the Sheriff has arrived yet.  He was surprised to hear that. I explained that if a County employee is dog bit a report is made to the Sheriff.  I went on to tell him that the dog has to go to doggy jail for fourteen days to be observed for rabies.  The owner asked who pays for that.  I assured him that he would and oh by the way, we can’t take your word for which dog it was, so that will be times four.

I could hear him tearing up.  His voice was different when he asked is there some other way to handle this.  I said that we could both hang up.  The line went dead.​


----------



## Norcal

And he had the good sense to put the dogs away as asked, none of this would have happened. Even better if the dogs had been trained.


----------



## Joe.B

This was at a final inspection.


----------



## Joe.B

Plans said "Ground all water lines" and yes those are copper water pipes, and yes it's copper all the wat to the water meter....


----------



## Norcal

Joe.B said:


> View attachment 9886
> View attachment 9886
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was at a final inspection.


There is something funny going on, there are skipped spaces that would be common to the high leg of 120/240V. 3Ø, then I see orange conductors on the "Zinsco II" twin breakers (Eaton BR), the color orange is supposed to be used for the high leg, there is a lot going on there that makes me wonder.


----------



## steveray

The engineer and SI said it was fine....


----------



## steveray

And this one...


----------



## Inspector Gadget

*"Everything is ready for the final inspection."*


----------



## Inspector Gadget

The scary thing .... contractor did not understand what was wrong.


----------



## steveray

Inspector Gadget said:


> The scary thing .... contractor did not understand what was wrong.


Lack of kickout flashings?


----------



## Inspector Gadget

steveray said:


> Lack of kickout flashings?


Roof was designed such that the water at the edge would simply be guided behind the cladding. No flashing, no sealant ....


----------



## tmurray

Inspector Gadget said:


> Roof was designed such that the water at the edge would simply be guided behind the cladding. No flashing, no sealant ....


That's where you want it. Back behind the siding so no one can see it. 

Whole thing will look like garbage in two years leaving that all exposed, even if it doesn't leak.


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## JPohling

Is that a pitched roof terminating into a vertical wall?  And what is that wood grained metal cladding that is absolutely terrible


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