# Retaining Wall Drop-Off Fencing



## jining

Hello! I'm having a new construction home built in Lake Stevens, Wa and there is a retaining wall around my lot that results in a 3' drop-off around my back yard. I was wondering if there are any building codes that would require the builder to provide fencing as a 3' drop-off seems like it would be some sort of safety violation. Basically I'm trying to get a free fence  

Thanks for any help!


----------



## north star

** * & * ** 

jining,

Welcome to The Building Codes Forum !

What adopted Code is applicable in your application ?
What does your contract with the builder state,
as far as them providing you with a fence ?

** * & * **


----------



## cda

Welcome


----------



## cda

If required, more than likely you still pay


----------



## jining

Thanks for the welcomes! I'm not sure what codes are applicable, does that depend on the city, county or state? My contract with the builder doesn't include any fencing, but today I heard from a neighbor that another house was able to get free fencing due to them having a retaining wall very similar to ours. I was hoping to reference some kind of building code when asking the builder about this.


----------



## cda

Suggest you contact your city building department with the question.

You should be able to ask without giving your name, unless you want to.

Normally these issues are resolved during the building permit process.

So if you walk to the back of your yard, there is a retaining wall. You keep going and there is a three foot drop????


What does it drop to empty lot, neighbors yard, other ????


----------



## cda

Appears wa adopts state wide code

And appears under the 2015 international codes

https://fortress.wa.gov/ga/apps/sbcc/Page.aspx?nid=14


----------



## jining

I've shot my city building department an email, thanks. Yes if I walk to the edge of the backyard there is a 3-4ft drop-off along two sides of the backyard.


----------



## jining

cda said:


> Appears wa adopts state wide code
> 
> And appears under the 2015 international codes
> 
> https://fortress.wa.gov/ga/apps/sbcc/Page.aspx?nid=14



I Was searching through here and couldn't find anything specific to my situation... Maybe I wasn't using the right key words but I came up with nothing.


----------



## jining

I forgot to mention the 3-4ft drop is into a neighbor's yard.


----------



## ICE

The building code does not require a fence and neither will the building department.


----------



## fatboy

I agree with ICE, and would not be required here. The yard is a landscape feature, not a structure, or something that requires a means of egress. 

That does not mean that there isn't a local amendment, and requirement. But, I would be surprised.


----------



## steveray

If there is not a "walking surface" like a deck, patio, or sidewalk, no guard required....


----------



## mark handler

steveray said:


> If there is not a "walking surface" like a deck, patio, or sidewalk, no guard required....


Or a Pool in one of the yards


----------



## mtlogcabin

You might check on the covenants  or development agreement to see if there are any requirements in those documents. I have also seen things placed on the final plat that should have been in the covenants.

either way I believe you will be paying for it


----------



## tbz

jining said:


> I forgot to mention the 3-4ft drop is into a neighbor's yard.



Once you exit the structure and are to grade, building code is done...unless you go in to another structure or pool area...then done.

Landscaping is not in the building code and fencing is also not in the building code as a requirement.  If you have a swimming pool, then a barrier would be needed and a fence can be used to comply with the barrier requirement.

Also, before you go and try and install a fence on top of the retaining wall, I would suggest finding out what the product is that the wall is fabricated with.  There are many types of dry laid stacked blocks that can't have anything installed on top of them...


----------



## mark handler

tbz said:


> Landscaping is not in the building code and fencing is also not in the building code as a requirement.    .


Path of travel is "sometimes" in the code.....


----------



## tbz

mark handler said:


> Path of travel is "sometimes" in the code.....



The OP noted around the back yard, thus he has a wall that drops off.  the model IRC does not regulate 3ft high landscaping walls that I am aware of, that is a local modification if required.

When the AHJ adopts a code, some do modify the code, but I am unaware of any modification in the WA state building code, that will require a guard be installed around the perimeter of a yard, yet a fence for a raise lawn area.


----------



## mark handler

tbz said:


> The OP noted around the back yard, thus he has a wall that drops off.  the model IRC does not regulate 3ft high landscaping walls that I am aware of, that is a local modification if required.
> 
> When the AHJ adopts a code, some do modify the code, but I am unaware of any modification in the WA state building code, that will require a guard be installed around the perimeter of a yard, yet a fence for a raise lawn area.


TBZ I was specifically Addressing the Quote in the post not the OP.


----------



## ADAguy

What have here is a "Best Practice" issue and also a risk management issue. A 36" drop off can really hurt when chasing a Frisbby or football.
What of pets exiting your yard? Then again read the fine print of the contract for construction, is this a one-off, a tract, or?


----------



## Yongyang

I came through the same question for my builder and this is what I found in Florida Building Code, I believe the reference is also valid for IBC or other State code that originated from IBC:

R312.1 Guards. 
Guards shall be provided in accordance with Sections R312.1.1 through R312.1.4.

R312.1.1 Where required. 
_Guards_ shall be located along open-sided walking surfaces, including stairs, ramps and landings, that are located more than 30 inches (762 mm) measured vertically to the floor or _grade_ below at any point within 36 inches (914 mm) horizontally to the edge of the open side. Insect screening shall not be considered as a _guard._


----------



## Yongyang

I meant to say Florida Residential Code not Florida Building Code


----------



## tmurray

The key is that is must be a walking surface regulated by the code, otherwise it is outside of the scope of the building code. We have lots of retaining walls in my jurisdiction and the only way I can make them install guards is if there is a deck or a means of egress to a public way. I do always recommend guards though.


----------



## ADAguy

Again, a risk managemt,and security issue.


----------



## classicT

Washington resident here...

Per the IRC, as you exit the structure and get to grade, jurisdiction of the building code is done, that is unless you land on another structure (deck, pool apron, etc.).


----------

