# Safety glazing and decks



## jar546 (Oct 22, 2009)

So ALL windows that are <60" from the deck walking surface and are located on the same size and within the confines of an exterior deck need to be safety glazing?

Such as:


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## conarb (Oct 22, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks

Unless the IRC has done something really crazy it's 18" above the walking surface.


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## Mule (Oct 23, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks

Nope! Unless it is within 24" of the arc of a door in the closed position OR if there is a hot tub, spa, tub and things of that nature on the inside of the house.


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## jar546 (Oct 23, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks

OK, I am really trying hard to make this controversial.  I have spoken to code officials who consider the deck surface a "landing" which makes the "walking surface" within 36" of the window that is less then 60" above the walking surface.

They do this because they believe that this meets the intent of the code.


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## Mule (Oct 23, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks

10. Glazing adjacent to stairways, landings and ramps

within 36 inches (914 mm) horizontally of a walking

surface when the exposed surface of the glass is less

than 60 inches (1524 mm) above the plane of the adjacent

walking surface

I guess one could say the deck is a landing. Hmmmmmmmmm


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## fw. (Oct 23, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks



			
				jar546 said:
			
		

> OK, I am really trying hard to make this controversial.  I have spoken to code officials who consider the deck surface a "landing" which makes the "walking surface" within 36" of the window that is less then 60" above the walking surface.They do this because they believe that this meets the intent of the code.


Well that's just plain wrong!


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## rktect 1 (Oct 23, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks

The deck is a landing.  But not the whole deck.  Just the portion that is 36" out by the width of the door it serves.  That is your required landing.

And yes the deck is a walking surface but the glazing must meet 4 requirements.  See R308.4 number 7 which lists 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 7.4  All of these are required in order to make it safety glazed.

Number 10 from R308.4 is a non issue for this application.  JMHO.  You may as well make every window in every bedroom safety glazed too if you are applying number 10 to the deck.


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## TJacobs (Oct 23, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks



			
				rktect 1 said:
			
		

> The deck is a landing.  But not the whole deck.  Just the portion that is 36" out by the width of the door it serves.  That is your required landing.And yes the deck is a walking surface but the glazing must meet 4 requirements.  See R308.4 number 7 which lists 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 7.4  All of these are required in order to make it safety glazed.
> 
> Number 10 from R308.4 is a non issue for this application.  JMHO.  You may as well make every window in every bedroom safety glazed too if you are applying number 10 to the deck.


I agree, no safety glazing required for the window in the picture.


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## conarb (Oct 23, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks

It's off the wall code interpretations like this that bring disrespect to all codes.


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## georgia plans exam (Oct 23, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks

The IRC defines a deck as “an exterior floor system supported on at least two opposing sides by an adjoining structure and/or posts, piers, or other independent supports”.

Webster defines a landing as “a platform at the end of a flight of stairs”.

To interpret that deck as a landing is just bizarre.

GPE


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## jeffc (Oct 23, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks

IRC Section R311.4.3 states that there shall be a floor or landing on each side of the door. Our interp has been that if you have one or more steps from the door to the deck, a 3 x 3 section of the deck becomes the landing. If you have a floor level outside that is flush with the inside floor level, you have a floor outside, no landing, and no temp glass.


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## kilitact (Oct 23, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks

Not being able to determine where the steps and or landing if any, I can see where this could fall under R308.4 #10


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## RickAstoria (Oct 23, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks

A deck is an exterior floor, and a landing all in one when it serves two purposes. It shall comply with both provisions (strictest applies). It can serve multiple roles.


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## peach (Oct 24, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks

well, then every single window on the first floor where you can walk to it on the grass needs to be tempered?

no.

If it's adjacent to a pool.. maybe.. just a deck, there are a lot of other factors involved before safety glazing is required.


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##  (Oct 24, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks

OK, I am really trying hard to make this controversial. I have spoken to code officials who consider the deck surface a "landing" which makes the "walking surface" within 36" of the window that is less then 60" above the walking surface.

They do this because they believe that this meets the intent of the code.

Would these same code officials declare a kitchen sink to be a bathtub because that's where babies get a bath?


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## brat (Oct 25, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks

From what is visible in the photo, the deck doesn't fall under any of the hazardous locations listed in R308.4.  I think it's a real stretch to consider a deck as posted in the photo as a landing.


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## rktect 1 (Oct 26, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks



			
				brat said:
			
		

> From what is visible in the photo, the deck doesn't fall under any of the hazardous locations listed in R308.4.  I think it's a real stretch to consider a deck as posted in the photo as a landing.


Yeah, it's like saying that the entire first floor (kitchen bathroom, living dining room etc) of a home is a landing for the stairs coming down from the second floor.


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## kilitact (Oct 26, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks



> To interpret that deck as a landing is just bizarre.


so if the required exit door is just outside of the picture frame, your saying it wouldn't require a landing??


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## High Desert (Oct 26, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks

You have a required landing on both sides of the door to the deck. The width of the landing can't be less than the width of the door served and a minimum of 36" in the direction of travel. IMO, that's the landing, not the entire deck. If you apply it any other way and call the deck the landing, then the *interior landing *would be the entire floor are of the story it is in.


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## conarb (Oct 26, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks

High:

I was going to make the same point, and tempered glass is notorious for scratching when it's being cleaned, I use laminated glass when safety glass is required which is great at the high-end, but is cost prohibitive on the lower end.  It's difficult to temper glass without getting minute dust particles into the surface, those particles then cause scratching when hit by a razor blade, the temperers must constantly keep their equipment and  facilities clean to avoid the problem, and many don't.


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## JBI (Oct 26, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks

2006 IRC R308.4 Hazardous locations.

Exception: The following products, materials and uses are exempt from the above hazardous locations:

5.   Glazing in Section R308.4, Items 7 and 10, when a protective bar is installed on the accessible side(s) of the glazing 36 inches ± 2 inches (914 mm ± 51 mm) above the floor. The bar shall be capable of withstanding a horizontal load of 50 pounds per linear foot (730 N/m) without contacting the glass and be a minimum of 1½ inches (38 mm) in height.  (how far AFF is that 'serving sill' anyway?)

or...

9.   Safety glazing in Section R308.4, Items 10 and 11, is not required where:

9.3.   When a solid wall or panel extends from the plane of the adjacent walking surface to 34 inches (863 mm) to 36 inches (914 mm) above the floor and the construction at the top of that wall or panel is capable of withstanding the same horizontal load as the protective bar.  (the wall is kind of self explanatory)

Personally, I don't believe that safety glass is required in this application anyway, but I know how much some of us like to have a code section to rely on.

We pretty much beat the snot out of the 'deck is a landing' debate a few months ago on that other board. I do tend to agree that a portion of the deck (or a floor inside) could be considered as a 'landing' for purposes of meeting the 'landing' requirements, but that does not make the entire deck (or floor) a landing, nor does it mandate safety glass in the case at hand. Sorry, JMHO.


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## kilitact (Oct 26, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks



> 10. Glazing adjacent to stairways, landings and rampswithin 36 inches (914 mm) horizontally of a walking
> 
> surface when the exposed surface of the glass is less
> 
> ...


so how do you determine that the area to the right of the window doesn't fall within the parameters of this code requirement?? yes; I agree that in this case the entire deck doesn't appear to be a landing.


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## TJacobs (Oct 27, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks

I stand by my original post.  Based on the *picture provided* I see no reason to require safety glazing.


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## JBI (Oct 27, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks

Kilitact - Because of :

9. *Safety glazing in Section R308.4, Items 10 *and 11, is *not required *where:

9.3. When *a solid wall or panel extends from the plane of the adjacent walking surface to 34 inches (863 mm) to 36 inches (914 mm) above the floor and the construction at the top of that wall or panel is capable of withstanding the same horizontal load as the protective bar*. (the wall is kind of self explanatory)

Are you being obstinate again?


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## kilitact (Oct 27, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks

I prefer to think of it has being inquisitive, but I know you just have to have the JD interpretation. Still need to look at R308.4 #6, good catch on the other.


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## Gene Boecker (Oct 27, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks

safety?

What's safety got to do with it???

 :lol:


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## JBI (Oct 27, 2009)

Re: Safety glazing and decks

Kil - I cut and pasted that from my prior post, that's why I thought you were being obstinate. Yes I agree, if there's a door adjacent to the window it would need to be safety glass.


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## jar546 (Jan 21, 2021)

Any changes on this?  I love resurrecting old threads.  Who has changed their opinion?
#blastfromthepast


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## steveray (Jan 22, 2021)

Have not changed my opinion but was wondering why we don't consider them a wet/ slippery surface....Not that I am pushing that....


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## Glenn (Jan 22, 2021)

Are you guys trying to bring me pain reading through this thread...

1) No, Jar546, nothing has changed. There are still code officials that are insane with power. As for glazing by stairs and stairways, it dropped from 60 inches to 36 inches in the 2012.

2) Steveray, the ISPSC (pool code) has provisions addressing slip resistance at pool decks. Feeling it was poorly written, I have worked with NADRA to submit four proposals to the Group A hearings this year. I welcome your review and feedback, though it's too late to incorporate anything into the proposals at this time. I did reach out before submission to the NAHB, the APSP, and others for their review and feedback. I look forward to seeing what the committee thinks of the proposals.


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## steveray (Jan 22, 2021)

I'm sure your proposals are spot on Glenn....Here are the guys reviewing ISPSC changes for region VI...Joe is another CT guy


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