# New Ramp, Old Church



## benny (Jun 17, 2013)

We have a permit for a new ramp out of an existing church. My understanding is that the church wants the ramp to meet ADA guidelines. During framing inspection I noticed that two of the three ramp slopes exceed the ADA maximum (they averaged 15%). We use the 2009 IBC, have not adopted the IEBC.

Can the church opt to keep the ramp as is?

Does the City have the authority to require the ramp to meet ADA guidelines? The church currently does not have any accessible facilities or entrances.

Thank you


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## steveray (Jun 17, 2013)

All we have is 3409.6 or other sections...we do not do ADA.....if is just "egress"....might not be required at all....


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## benny (Jun 17, 2013)

I don't have 3409.6 in the 2009 IBC...are you citing 2012?


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## mtlogcabin (Jun 17, 2013)

> We have a permit for a new ramp out of an existing church


 New ramp meets IBC Section 1010 which will be compliant with ADA. The church maybe able to opt out of ADA but it can't opt out of the building code. Having said that look at IBC 2009 Sections 3411.7 & 3411.8 entire section. If one ramp meets the requirements you may be okay


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## benny (Jun 17, 2013)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> New ramp meets IBC Section 1010 which will be compliant with ADA. The church maybe able to opt out of ADA but it can't opt out of the building code. Having said that look at IBC 2009 Sections 3411.7 & 3411.8 entire section. If one ramp meets the requirements you may be okay


Could the church use 3411.7, exception 4? There are existing stairs; the ramp is supplemental and does increase accessibility.


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## steveray (Jun 17, 2013)

See #2 below......If it is also an entrance it gets a little more complicated....

3411.6 Alterations. A building, facility or element that is altered shall comply with the applicable provisions in Chapter 11 of this code and ICC A117.1, unless technically infeasible. Where compliance with this section is technically infeasible, the alteration shall provide access to the maximum extent technically feasible.

Exceptions:

1. The altered element or space is not required to be on an accessible route, unless required by Section 3411.7.

2. Accessible means of egress required by Chapter 10 are not required to be provided in existing buildings and facilities.


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## mtlogcabin (Jun 17, 2013)

Exception 4 is there to allow certain accessibility work to be done without requiring additional accessibility modifications. Example the building owner is installing a new ADA drinking fountain or maybe lever handles along the egress path. Exception 4 would not require the route to the primary function area to be made accessible under todays code.


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## benny (Jun 17, 2013)

It doesn't sound like a new ramp would fit that exception.


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## steveray (Jun 17, 2013)

3411.7 is the old 3409.6.....the problem is.....the ramp "should" increase accessibility....


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## north star (Jun 17, 2013)

*= =*

There is no exemption from the ADA Standards.....Refer to Section 202

in the `10 ADA Standards. [ i.e. - this is "new" construction ].....If the

church wants to comply with the ADA, ...then allow them to !.....Document

your findings and present it to them.

*= =*


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## mark handler (Jun 17, 2013)

Does the church rent out the building? Or is it for church purpose s only?

If it rents the facilities out,  it is required to meet the ADAsad standards.

If it does not rent facilities,  it just needs to comply with the state building code.

Most people don't know the difference,  some on this board, don't know the difference. Some use the term ADA interchangeably with all access.

That said, ANSI 117.1and the ADASAD are the same in respect to the slopes of pedestrian ramps.

If they want to be compliant,  they need to remove the non complient sections and make them compliant

What is prompting this? Are they doing other improvement s?

Having a non compliant ramp can be dangerous.  Even a minor deviance can lead to injury, and liability.


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## mark handler (Jun 17, 2013)

A ramp is an increase of accessibility


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## benny (Jun 17, 2013)

mark handler said:
			
		

> What is prompting this? Are they doing other improvement s?


They have a building permit for adding the ramp. The contractor didn't do the math and framed the ramp with the steeper slopes. He asked if the church can accept the ramp as constructed; so far I have told him that the ramp is required to meet building code (IBC).


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## mark handler (Jun 17, 2013)

Doesn't your building code require under chapter 11, the ramp to meet ANSI117, 1.?


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## benny (Jun 17, 2013)

mark handler said:
			
		

> Doesn't your building code require under chapter 11, the ramp to meet ANSI117, 1.?


yes, and 3411


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## mark handler (Jun 17, 2013)

If it meets your code requirements,  little you can do, you cannot force them to exceed you r code requirements

You can inform the church and tell them they may not meet ADA.

Have you looked at table 405.2 in the SAD. IT HAS Alternate slopes for existing buildings


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## jar546 (Jun 17, 2013)

So the contractor made a mistake.

I assume the reviewed plans show the proper grading?

If you are in an IBC State that has also adopted Chapter 11 then accessibility applies regardless of DOJ ADA requirements being waived or not.

How is this your problem that the contractor made a mistake?  Time for him to correct the mistake and comply with the code.


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