# Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites



## Uncle Bob (Jan 13, 2010)

With the down turn of construction; are there fewer undocumented workers (illegal aliens) on building sites in your area?

Uncle Bob


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## cda (Jan 13, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers on construction sites

Are you talking uncertified inspectors??????????????


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## Uncle Bob (Jan 13, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites

CDA,

I was trying to be "politically correct".  But, I am asking about folks who are not legally in this country.  My question conserns whether there is a decrease of illegals working on construction sites; due to the loss of construction jobs.

I made the correction on the OP,

Uncle Bob


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## kilitact (Jan 13, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites

Uncle Bob, how do you determine if illegal aliens are working on the job, card people?


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## jpranch (Jan 13, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites

Sorry, No Abla.


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## Uncle Bob (Jan 13, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites

I realize that it doesn't matter to some people that hundreds of thousands of trained, experienced American tradesmen (framers, plumbers, electricians, and HVAC professionals) in this country, have lost their jobs to untrained illegal laborers.

As long as it's "the other guy"; and, not you; who is losing the job he trained years for, to someone who has no legal right to work in this country and has no training; many of you don't give a damn.

Well, be patient; if this trend keeps up; your turn will come.

You are evidently more worried about the rights of illegal workers to take the jobs of American citizens.

So be it,

Uncle Bob


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## D a v e W (Jan 13, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites

To answer the question YES, except in the landscape and drywall area


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## brudgers (Jan 14, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites



			
				Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> You are evidently more worried about the rights of illegal workers to take the jobs of American citizens.


In the past 10 years, more jobs were shipped overseas than were ever lost to illegal workers.

Many of the jobs that were shipped were far better than those who were filled by someone crossing the border.

And if you've got a 401k or pension, you helped create the outsourcing.


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## cda (Jan 14, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites

I think the problem is out of hand in many ways, but the powers to be do not want to do anthing about it, except give them money, and find away to make the legal


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## mtlogcabin (Jan 14, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites

Brudgers now stay focused on what Uncle Bob said



> hundreds of thousands of trained, experienced American tradesmen (framers, plumbers, electricians, and HVAC professionals) in this country, have lost their jobs to untrained illegal laborers.


UB is talking about construction projects on American soil being done by workers who are in this country illegally period. You can not ship construction jobs overseas!

Nobody really knows how many illegal workers are in this country. I have read estimates of 10,000,000. So the real question to think about is How much would the unemployment rate drop in this country if the illegals where deported?

Profile and demographics

Main article: Illegal immigrant population of the United States

A trend that grew from the 1990s to the late 2000s, illegal immigrants continue to outpace the number of legal immigrants—a trend that has held steady since the 1990s. While the majority of illegal aliens continue to concentrate in places with existing large communities of Hispanics, increasingly illegal immigrants are settling throughout the rest of the country.[4]

An estimated 13.9 million people live in families in which the head of household or the spouse is an unauthorized immigrant.[4] Illegal immigrants arriving in recent years tend to be better educated than those who have been in the country a decade or more. A quarter of all immigrants who have arrived in recent years have at least some college education. Nonetheless, illegal immigrants as a group tend to be less educated than other sections of the U.S. population: 49 percent haven't completed high school, compared with 9 percent of native-born Americans and 25 percent of legal immigrants.[4]

Illegal immigrants work in many sectors of the U.S. economy. According to National Public Radio, about 3 percent work in agriculture; 33 percent have jobs in service industries; and substantial numbers can be found in construction and related occupations (16 percent), and in production, installation and repair (17 percent).[4] According to USA Today, about 4 percent work in farming; 21 percent have jobs in service industries; and substantial numbers can be found in construction and related occupations (19 percent), and in production, installation and repair (15 percent), with 12% in sales, 10% in management, and 8% in transportation.[5] Illegal immigrants have lower incomes than both legal immigrants and native-born Americans, but earnings do increase somewhat the longer an individual is in the country.[4]


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## brudgers (Jan 14, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites



			
				mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Nobody really knows how many illegal workers are in this country. I have read estimates of 10,000,000. So the real question to think about is How much would the unemployment rate drop in this country if the illegals where deported?


With the workers gone, business costs will rise, meaning higher prices, meaning less demand...meaning fewer jobs.

With the workers gone, all those pickups, cell phones, work boots, tools, won't get sold...meaning fewer jobs.

With the workers gone, chinese buffets will be empty, meaning less demand for food, meaning farmers will be out of work...meaning fewer jobs.

With the workers gone, the occupancy rate of rental property will decline, meaning lower real estate values, meaning more defaulted loans, meaning less lending, meaning less construction...meaning fewer jobs.

With the workers gone, the for commercial real-estate will decline, meaning lower real estate values, meaning more defaulted loans, meaning less lending, meaning less construction...meaning fewer jobs.

It's harder to tackle a complex problem than to search for scapegoats.

But if you want to start trying, turn off the cable news.

The start of this recession coincided with the demagoguery over immigrants...Just saying.


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## Mango (Jan 14, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites

Uncle Bob,

Here in the southern part of the country I have not seen any decrease in the number of undocumented workers. I know this from the electrical apprentice registration process that we have and all of the fake identification cards we receive. We had one electrical company that had a stack of TDLR (Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation) apprentice cards with different names that would hand them out to the workers in the morning before they head to the job site.

Of course perhaps they are here legally but just have fake ID's and perhaps the TDLR cards actually belonged to the workers and the boss just kept track of them so they wouldnt lose them.

Mango


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## rktect 1 (Jan 14, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites

I wasn't checking for undocumented alien workers.

I don't think anybody in America is actually checking for undocumented alien workers.

ICE doesn't. Actually they do sweeps, find illegal aliens who have committed crimes and are wanted by the law and return the non-criminal aliens back into the general population.

Like catch and release until they get a keeper.


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## jar546 (Jan 14, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites

It is one thing to see an OSHA violation on a jobsite, it is another to be able to determine which workers are illegal.

It is a serious complex problem that needs to be dealt with but dealing with it will come at a cost no one expects.


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## kilitact (Jan 14, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites

jar546: so is this not considered a political subject? If not, can we post some facts?


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## jar546 (Jan 14, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites



			
				kilitact said:
			
		

> jar546: so is this not considered a political subject? If not, can we post some facts?


The OP and thread name is about "Undocumented workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites" which is just as pertinent (spelling?) as the controversy about OSHA violations and where our responsibility is.

This cannot be a thread simply about illegal aliens, it needs to be pertinent to our jobs just as the OSHA thread was.

I am very opinionated on this subject but will keep my comments related to how this affects our job.  I am hoping that this does not drift into another subject.

So here is a question:  Does anyone feel as though they have a legal obligation to report what they suspect concerning this subject?

I say no, you would have to dig way to deep out of your scope of employment to find this out.  A visual on an OSHA violation is much easier.


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## vegas paul (Jan 14, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites

We keep all of our illegal aliens in deep freeze, up in Area 51..


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## JMORRISON (Jan 14, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites

Most of the smaller residential contractors are back to themselves and one good hand doing as much of the work they have decent skills for.  Here is recent news about ICE raid up North.

http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2010 ... -worrying/


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## rktect 1 (Jan 14, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites

From the above link.

"We feel bad because most of the people are stable, they’ve got their families here,” he said. “I want to say to all the Hispanics not to be frustrated, to stay calm and wait. I heard some people want to go back to Mexico right away, which is not good.”  :?


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## mtlogcabin (Jan 14, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites

16% to 19% of illegal aliens working in construction and related fields is a significant number compared to 3% to 4% working in agricultural and that is the whole point of UB's post and how illegal immigrants may be affecting the employment of US citizens in the construction industry. Now some states and local areas would be hard pressed to identify who is an illegal or natural born citizen due to the ethnic diversity of your communities. In my part of the country it is the Canadian who comes across the border without a work visa that would be just as hard to identify (hey    as an illegal hispanic worker would be in the south western states. I don't know the answers except to allow all law enforcement agencies to enforce the laws that are on the books.

Illegal immigration does affect/effect (not sure which one to use) the unemployment numbers

About 125,000 Cubans came to Miami during the summer of 1979 during the Mariel boatlift. About half stayed in the Miami area which caused unemployment to rise from 5% to 7.1%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariel_boatlift


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## FM William Burns (Jan 14, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites



> Does anyone feel as though they have a legal obligation to report what they suspect concerning this subject?


Perhaps, as it relates to the "qualified and knowledgeable individual" provisions of an adopted code, statute or state administrative rule relating to construction, installation and life safety systems and those firms who practice the employment of unlicensed, skilled or qualified individuals within their state licensing provisions.

My first investigative piece of "soft" evidence to explore upon encounter or question would be the ability to communicate.  I can't tell you what we use to do back in South Florida in the era * MT * alludes to with the southern Islanders washing up on our beaches and being met by ACLU attorneys.

Personally, I would push the envelope if encountered but heck.............. I’m a card carrying citizen *and have nothing against anyone who wants to come here become legal and contribute to society like the 50's and 60's Cuban population did.*


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## brudgers (Jan 14, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites



			
				rktect 1 said:
			
		

> I wasn't checking for undocumented alien workers.I don't think anybody in America is actually checking for undocumented alien workers.
> 
> ICE doesn't. Actually they do sweeps, find illegal aliens who have committed crimes and are wanted by the law and return the non-criminal aliens back into the general population.
> 
> Like catch and release until they get a keeper.


Don't kid yourself.

http://ucpress.edu/books/pages/10041.php  <---that's not some radical press either

Interview

http://www.democracynow.org/2006/5/4/a_ ... mmigration


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## rktect 1 (Jan 14, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites

If you knew people in ICE you'd know they aren't capable of keeping secret clandestine prisons.  They are barely able to keep a minority of the "criminal" illegal aliens either in our standard prisons or in the process of deportation.  They certainly can't be out looking for non green card holders or non work visa holders who happen to be working construction sites.


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## karmann33 (Jan 25, 2010)

Re: Undocumented Workers (illegal aliens) on construction sites

We have fewer of them in the area but, still have several in our area.


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