# Is an egress door required?



## mtlogcabin (Feb 12, 2013)

Read the police blotter this morning, yes it's a small town and is published daily, a couple was "trapped" in the carwash when the overhead doors failed to open after the carwash was complete. for those of you in the southern climates our un-attended  automatic carwashes have garage doors on each end that open after you pay, you drive in the door closes the car is washed and the other door opens and you drive out , There was a mal***tion that prevented the door from opening and they could not get out. They could not manually open the overhead door either.

Should there be an exit door from such a facility? I don't believe any of the exceptions would apply if the facility was built today.

Opinions?

1008.1.2 Door swing.

Egress doors shall be of the pivoted or side-hinged swinging type.

Exceptions:

1. Private garages, office areas, factory and storage areas with an occupant load of 10 or less.

2. Group I-3 occupancies used as a place of detention.

3. Critical or intensive care patient rooms within suites of health care facilities.

4. Doors within or serving a single dwelling unit in Groups R-2 and R-3.

5. In other than Group H occupancies, revolving doors complying with Section 1008.1.4.1.

6. In other than Group H occupancies, horizontal sliding doors complying with Section 1008.1.4.3 are permitted in a means of egress .

7. Power-operated doors in accordance with Section 1008.1.4.2.

8. Doors serving a bathroom within an individual sleeping unit in Group R-1.

9. In other than Group H occupancies, manually operated horizontal sliding doors are permitted in a means of egress from spaces with an occupant load of 10 or less.

Doors shall swing in the direction of egress travel where serving an occupant load of 50 or more persons or a Group H occupancy.


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## cda (Feb 12, 2013)

Sounds like it would be a good idea in this instance

But could you require it would be the question. Most doors are manually openable, but does not appear in this case, so might be something to use to require a door


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## globe trekker (Feb 12, 2013)

Section 1008.1.3.2, 2006 IBC:* =* Power-operated doors.

Where means of egress doors are operated by power, such as doors with a photoelectric

-actuated mechanism to open the door upon the approach of a person, or doors with

power-assisted manual operation, the design shall be such that in the event of power

failure, the door is capable of being opened manually to permit means of egress travel

or closed where necessary to safeguard means of egress. The forces required to open

these doors manually shall not exceed those specified in :Next('./icod_ibc_2006f2_10_par053.htm')'>Section 1008.1.2, except that

the force to set the door in motion shall not exceed 50 pounds (220 N). The door shall

be capable of swinging from any position to the full width of the opening in which

such door is installed when a force is applied to the door on the side from which egress

is made. Full-power-operated doors shall comply with BHMA A156.10. Power-assisted

and low-energy doors shall comply with BHMA A156.19.

*Exceptions:*1. Occupancies in Group I-3.

2. Horizontal sliding doors complying with :Next('./icod_ibc_2006f2_10_par059.htm')'>Section 1008.1.3.3.

3. For a biparting door in the emergency breakout mode, a door leaf located within a

multiple-leaf opening shall be exempt from the minimum 32-inch (813 mm) single-leaf

requirement of :Next('./icod_ibc_2006f2_10_par051.htm')'>Section 1008.1.1, provided a minimum 32-inch (813 mm) clear opening

is provided when the two biparting leaves meeting in the center are broken out.

.


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## BSSTG (Feb 12, 2013)

Greetings,

1020.2 Exterior exit doors. Buildings or structures used for human occupancy shall have at least one exterior door that meets the requirements of Section 1008.1.1.

Darn right you can require it after the fact. That sounds down right dangerous to me.(although I've never seen one or those)

116.1 Conditions. Structures or existing equipment that are or hereafter become unsafe, insanitary or deficient because of inadequate means of egress facilities, inadequate light and ventilation, or which constitute a fire hazard, or are otherwise dangerous to human life or the public welfare, or that involve illegal or improper occupancy or inadequate maintenance, shall be deemed an unsafe condition. Unsafe structures shall be taken down and removed or made safe, as the building official deems necessary and as provided for in this section. A vacant structure that is not secured against entry shall be deemed unsafe.

BSSTG


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## globe trekker (Feb 12, 2013)

Byron,

Not sure, but "mtlogcabin" may be asking if a MOE door is required in the initial design of

these types of businesses (i.e. - drive thru car washes), BEFORE someone gets trapped

in one.

As to your Section 1020.2, the question about human occupancy comes up again.

Is a Drive Thru Car Wash or Beer Barn "designed / meant for" human occupancy?

If this type of "trapped occupants event" actually happened, then the code offical

could refer to historical events to require compliance in the future, but what about

without any historical data to support the requirement?

Essentially, what code section is the code offical going to cite to require compliant

MOE doors from all spaces of a structure?

.


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## BSSTG (Feb 12, 2013)

yessir,

I understand the confusion. That said, if folks are in ths structure which is totally enclosed, whether or not they are in a car is mute IMO. I sure would like to see one of those out of curiosity. As a sidebar to all of this, what about risk of CO poisoning from getting trapped in one of those should they be trapped and failed to turn the engine off. This an interesting thread.We do have a fair number of beer barns and the like up in our hill country. They are always open ended though I believe. Never heard of anything like this.

BS


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## globe trekker (Feb 12, 2013)

These are some examples.












.


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## GBrackins (Feb 12, 2013)

globe trekker said:
			
		

> As to your Section 1020.2, the question about human occupancy comes up again.
> 
> Is a Drive Thru Car Wash or Beer Barn "designed / meant for" human occupancy?


well the car don't drive itself into it, so I guess human occupancy is understood unless they make you leave the area before the car washing begins


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## AegisFPE (Feb 12, 2013)

It may be an instance where the Existing Building provisions in IFC 4604 could be applicable now.


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## ICE (Feb 13, 2013)

The automatic car washes that I have been through were all open at each end.  As the car progresses through the wash there are positions where the occupant couldn't get the door of the car open.

In places where there are doors at each end of the tunnel there should be a way out no matter what happens.  A roll-up door is not an egress door so a man door should be available.


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## Builder Bob (Feb 13, 2013)

I believe exception # 1 may be applicable - if the doors are closed and they couldn't get out, isn't it a parking garage at that point    (S-2 _ storage)


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## globe trekker (Feb 13, 2013)

Alright, ..time to play devils advocate on this one.

I am a business owner coming in to your jurisdiction, and I want to build /

open a 24 hr. car wash, without any attendants on the site. The structure

will have a drive-in and a drive-out door only! The vehicles can enter the

car wash after the wash has been paid for, and exit when the wash is

completed.

*QUESTION # 1:* Do I have any MOE issues with this structure? If so,

please cite the applicable code sections.

*QUESTION # 2:* What Occupancy Group would this be classified as?

I'm thinking a "U" !

Your thoughts..

FWIW, we have one of these very types of car washes in my

jurisdiction. It has highly durable, clear plastic on every part of the

walls and roof.

.


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## mark handler (Feb 13, 2013)

As others have said, yes a man door required


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## Mac (Feb 13, 2013)

New York has determined they are U occupancies. I don't see any requirement for "U" occupancy exiting in Ch.10.

Maybe I'm missing it?


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## mark handler (Feb 13, 2013)

Mac said:
			
		

> New York has determined they are U occupancies. I don't see any requirement for "U" occupancy exiting in Ch.10.Maybe I'm missing it?


1001.1 General. Buildings or portions thereof shall be provided with a means of egress system as required by this chapter.

1008.1.2 Door swing. Egress doors shall be of the pivoted or side-hinged swinging type.

TABLE 1015.1

SPACES WITH ONE EXIT OR EXIT ACCESS DOORWAY

OCCUPANCY U

MAXIMUM OCCUPANT LOAD 49


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## BSSTG (Feb 13, 2013)

Greetings all,\

I tell folks all of the time. There always has to be an acceptable means of egress out of a structure at least minimally regardless of whatever arguement arises over occupancy type etc.

Byron


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## Architect1281 (Feb 15, 2013)

A gentle nudge to the overhead with a reliable auto bumper should do the trick then let the insurance company settle up

oops my foot slipped. but I thought the door was already open?


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## Pcinspector1 (Feb 19, 2013)

Could the garage door maunfactures design a required egress door in the garage door itself for existing car washes? A lot of these automatics do not have an additional door for egress. Several older car washes are built with block wall construction.

The idea of a big red "push button for emergency escape" would work as long as the car wash has power. Other than that, a door would need to be provided unless exempted.

pc1


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## Pcinspector1 (Feb 19, 2013)

2006IBC 304.1, Group-B, Carwash. Not U-group!

NY, appears to have changed the use group.

pc1


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