# Commercial Electrical Upgrade - Historical Building



## Alias (Jan 10, 2013)

Okay, quick question.  I have two old (1908/1886) buildings with original fuse boxes and knob and tube wiring.  Owner wants to rehab second floor and rent existing office space.

Would you require stamped drawings for the work?

Sue


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## Mac (Jan 10, 2013)

"....rehab second floor..." Probably yes, depending on the extent of the rehab work. Any project costing in excess of $20,000.00 in NY needs stamped plans.


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## codeworks (Jan 10, 2013)

rewire the whole second floor. you can't extend knob and tube.  if its that old, and it's going to rented, for everyones safety rewire it


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## north star (Jan 11, 2013)

*& &*



Sue,

Depending on the intended overall scope of the project, I may

or may not require stamped & sealed plans......If I could get a

detailed scope of work for the project, and some detailed

information; not necessarily plans, from a very good electrical

contractor who knew the codes, then I may try to work with

them in getting the project moving forward......That said, in

your case, ...because of you being severely hamstrung of being

a one person operation and lack of support from those above

you, then "yes, I would require stamped & sealed plans"....IMO,

you do not have the adequate resources to be able to perform

your responsibilities......Have plans submitted for the project

and then try to have all parties involved actually comply with

the codes and standards proposed.



*& &*


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## Alias (Jan 14, 2013)

Mac - don't have a dollar amount yet but, with the new sheet rock, electrical, and plumbing it will be way over $20,000.  Also, pretty sure stamped plans required under CA code.

codeworks - plan is to rewire entire 2nd floor on both buildings.

north star - thanks, that was my thought on the subject.  Contractor who contacted me about the job is not 'local' - 140 miles south of us - and hasn't been licensed that long.  County inspector also warned me to watch him.

My feelings are, drawings required.

Any other comments, anything from the electrical gurus?   Please feel free to post them and roast me if I'm wrong.   

Sue


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## Alias (Jan 22, 2013)

Just had owner in my office, he's upset and doesn't understand why he needs stamped plans.  No one he has talked to says he needs stamped plans.  Anyone with a code section I can quote?  Electrical code is not my forte.

Thanks,

Sue


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## ICE (Jan 22, 2013)

At a minimum I would ask for a floor plan and perhaps a reflected ceiling plan.  El if over 400 amp. That's it so far, from what you have described.


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## north star (Jan 22, 2013)

*$ $ +*

Section 106.1 in the `06 IBC would be the section that I would /

could use to require legitimately designed plans, and not some

napkin-esque offering.

Looks like that section is in Section 107 in the `10 CBC.....See

this link = = >: *https://bulk.resource.org/codes.gov/bsc.ca.gov/gov.ca.bsc.2010.02.1.html*



*+ + $*


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## Alias (Jan 22, 2013)

ICE said:
			
		

> At a minimum I would ask for a floor plan and perhaps a reflected ceiling plan.  El if over 400 amp. That's it so far, from what you have described.


ICE -

Thanks.  600 AMP service total - split 200 AMP & 400 AMP

Sue


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## Alias (Jan 22, 2013)

codeworks said:
			
		

> rewire the whole second floor. you can't extend knob and tube.  if its that old, and it's going to rented, for everyones safety rewire it


That's the plan.  Second floor of both buildings have been vacant longer than I've lived here (and that's been almost 20 years).

Sue


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## elowpop (Jan 23, 2013)

Follow  the law.


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## BSSTG (Jan 23, 2013)

elowpop said:
			
		

> Follow  the law.


ditto.

Greetings,

I would not require stamped dwgs here but I don't have a problem with that type of work beins how I used to do a lot of it. Nor are there any regs that I know of here that would require stamped dwgs. Not a big deal. I would however require some good dwgs that detail the scope of the project.

BSSTG


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## north star (Jan 23, 2013)

*= = **>*



BSSTG,

Normally I would not require stamped & signed drawings either,

but in the case with **Alias**,  ...she is woefully understaffed,

with extremely limited resources and virtually no support from

the "higher ups", ...so in order for her to be able to perform

[ somewhat ] of her position of the BO, to me it would make

sense to have a fully stamped & sealed set of plans submitted.

Let someone else do the work that she does not have the

resources to do herself!.......I believe that Section 107 in the

`10 CBC provides her with the authority to do this.

*<** = =*


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## BSSTG (Jan 23, 2013)

north star said:
			
		

> *= = **>*
> 
> BSSTG,
> 
> ...


By all means, I agree that being the case. I did the same thing a year ago regarding fire code stuff, fuel tanks etc.

BSSTG


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## Alias (Jan 28, 2013)

Well, owner just left.  He is absolutely clueless.  He thinks that all he needs to do is give me a list of wiring that will be installed, and  I then come over and look at what has been done.  I asked him about panels and meter bases.  Answer - We're going to move/replace them and put them behind the flower shop.

Bottom line, he doesn't want to pay a designer for any type of plans or, for that matter, think any type of plans are needed.  He thinks that because this is Modoc, the rules laid out by the Sate of California don't apply.   "No one else has to do it, so why should I?  We're just rewiring the second floor and making it better.  It's a historic building."  Argh.....:banghd

What part of I need plans and load calcs don't you understand?  Electrical contractor has been licensed for about a year.  Owner wants him to draw plans and me accept said plans.  The owner has no clue what is involved.  He thinks that because I request plans with load calcs that the power company will make him buy and hang a new transformer.  WTF?

So, anyone have a quote from CA H&S Code (or other CA code) to add to the argument for designer drawn plans?  This guy just doesn't get it.

Sue, where the west still lives..........  let the beatings continue...... :beatdhrs


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## north star (Jan 28, 2013)

*+ + +*



Sue,

Are the 2nd floor areas required to be ADA / Accessible compliant?

[ RE: reach ranges for the electrical panels, switches & other controls ]

Also, have you reviewed the 2010 California Historical Code?....See

this link: = = = > *https://bulk.resource.org/codes.gov/bsc.ca.gov/gov.ca.bsc.2010.08.html*



*% % %*


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