# Change in floor elevation



## RJJ (Mar 9, 2010)

I have an A2 Bar/rest that has added a dance floor to the center of the eating area. The floor elevation is 1 1/2 " higher then the surrounding floors. Now this is creating and issue for ada compliance. It is more the normal transition ans very small for a ramp! would you use 405.2 as the guide not steeper then 3"?


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## Coug Dad (Mar 9, 2010)

Re: Change in floor elevation

What a bad idea, in addition to not being allowed by code.  You would have lawyers waiting in line to pass out their business cards as people tripped on the edge.


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1003.5 Elevation change. Where changes in elevation of less than 12 inches (305 mm) exist in the means of egress, sloped surfaces shall be used. Where the slope is greater than one unit vertical in 20 units horizontal (5-percent slope), ramps complying with Section 1010 shall be used. Where the difference in elevation is 6 inches (152 mm) or less, the ramp shall be equipped with either handrails or floor finish materials that contrast with adjacent floor finish materials. Exceptions: 1. A single step with a maximum riser height of 7 inches (178mm) is permitted for buildings with occupancies in Groups F, H, R-2 and R-3 and Groups S and U at exterior doors not required to be accessible by Chap-ter 11. 2. A stair with a single riser or with two risers and a tread is permitted at locations not required to be accessible by Chapter 11, provided that the risers and treads comply with Section 1009.3, the minimum depth of the tread is 13 inches (330 mm) and at least one hand-rail complying with Section 1012 is provided within 30 inches (762 mm) of the centerline of the normal path of egress travel on the stair. 3. A step is permitted in aisles serving seating that has a difference in elevation less than 12 inches (305 mm) at locations not required to be accessible by Chapter 11, provided that the risers and treads comply with Section 1025.11 and the aisle is provided with a hand-rail complying with Section 1025.13. Any change in elevation in a corridor serving nonambulatory persons in a Group I-2 occupancy shall be by means of a ramp or sloped walkway.
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## RJJ (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: Change in floor elevation

CD I agree it is a bad Idea! Existing building with alteration. I agree on the egress and this will need to comply. The section 405.2 seems to allow a max of 3" with a slope not greater the 1:8.


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## Coug Dad (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: Change in floor elevation

A "tapered" edge would meet the code for a 1.5 inch rise.  A step would not.


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## vegas paul (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: Change in floor elevation

I'd love to discuss this with the designer and/or business owner to see what they were possibly thinking...  Let's see - we serve alcohol to bar patrons who are intent on "socializing" while dancing, lurking, ogling, and contemplating potential "whoopee"...  And then to make it even a more memorable experience, we install a trip hazard surrounding the entire dance floor.  What's next?  Dribble glasses for their beer?  Make sure the You-tube cameras are up and running for the extra entertainment value.


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## north star (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: Change in floor elevation

*Salina Paul [ formerly known as ' vegas paul ' ],*

*That's just plain funny!   :lol:*


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## Gene Boecker (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: Change in floor elevation

Best solution: put in a tapered edge that is 1:20.  For accessibility the slope could be as steep as 1:12 but then the sloped floor (as noted above) would need to be somehow finished to visually contrast with the surrounding floor(s).



> Where the difference in elevation is 6 inches (152 mm) or less, the ramp shall be equipped with either handrails or floor finish materials that contrast with adjacent floor finish materials.


If they pull back the carpet, install the 1:20 slope, then the carpet can go back and edge up to the dance floor.  If there's no carpet, the sloped floor surface could match either the dance floor or main floor and still be OK.  If the slope's at 1:12 then you might as well make it out of blue play-dough and let it harden.

Spills and slips on 1:12 will still happen because it's less than a single step to make the transition.  But, that way when the guy is on the floor looking up a the "ceiling" he can claim he tripped and wasn't being intentionally voyeuristic.   :lol:


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## JBI (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: Change in floor elevation

I'd try to find a way to match the new dance floor elevation to the existing floor finish elevation. But that's just me and I tend to oversimplify things... Must be my lack of formal education and no 'letters' after my surname.


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## Gene Boecker (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: Change in floor elevation

Aw, John!    :cry:

Just add "Esq." after your name.

It turns out that there's no legal limitaion on who can use that.

There!  Now you have letters!


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## JBI (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: Change in floor elevation

Gene - I don't konw whether to laugh or feel terribly insulted by that...  :lol: I have told  friends, who happened to be attorneys, that I would never become a lawyer because I have too much integrity. After they got over the initial hurt they all saw the humor.


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## vegas paul (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: Change in floor elevation

John - letters after your name are highly over-rated...

Sincerely,

Paul Curry, CBO, MCP, LEED AP, BSME, BSIT, m.o.u.s.e...etc.


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## JBI (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: Change in floor elevation

Actually, here in NYS I could add C.E.O., as I am a certified CodeEnforcement Official, but most people confuse it with Chief Executive Officer. Soon I hope to be able to add CCS1 if I ever get a State job as a Code Compliance Specialist 1. The most recent announcement was from DOS for a trainers position. They're not hiring or interviewing yet due to a hiring freeze ordered by Paterson, but if he leaves one never knows...


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## Gene Boecker (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: Change in floor elevation

. . . one never knows.   :?


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## Big Mac (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: Change in floor elevation

Stair - A change in elevation consisting of one or more risers.  Risers shall be 7” maximum and 4” minimum.  1009.3. Therefore this cannot be a legitimate stair.

Changes in floor level greater than ½” in height shall be ramped and shall comply with Section 405 or 406.  ICC A117.1, Section 303.4.

As Gene pointed out however, if the slope of said Accessible feature had a slope of 1:20 or even less, then the barrier free provisions are no longer a factor, because there is then no ramp to regulate


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## RJJ (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: Change in floor elevation

How about the electric bull! What is the height of the grab bars! :lol:


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