# R-2 Sprinkler System



## Jonathan Shoemaker

I have a two story duplex/apartment I am remodeling.  It will have 3-4 separate apartments once complete.  I read in section 903 that two or more units require sprinklers.  The fire department reads this as well, but really does not get involved in the inspection process.  I believe I need sprinklers.  The building inspector does not think I need them because I will not have more than 4 units.  I don't read anything about 4 or more units.  I am trying to locate something in writing either way so I can do it right the first time and he does not come back in 6 months changing his mind.


----------



## mtlogcabin

Might depend on local amendments.  What state are you in?


----------



## tmurray

You can ask the local building inspector for a written interpretation. It might take some time to get it though.


----------



## Jonathan Shoemaker

mtlogcabin said:


> Might depend on local amendments.  What state are you in?


I am in Texas.  My city does not have any amendments to the building codes.  They have never actually been enforced until the last couple months.  We  just got a new building inspector that works a couple hours a week.


----------



## Jonathan Shoemaker

tmurray said:


> You can ask the local building inspector for a written interpretation. It might take some time to get it though.


I doubt that will happen.  He only works a couple hours a week and you can't get a hold of him.  City hall is a joke as well.  We have never had a building inspector that inspects, its always been a rubber stamp.  Now we have one, but the city is not set up to use him and he is not set up to work with the city.  It's a mess.  All of this to say, he is inspecting properties with permits tho.


----------



## cda

Jonathan Shoemaker said:


> I have a two story duplex/apartment I am remodeling.  It will have 3-4 separate apartments once complete.  I read in section 903 that two or more units require sprinklers.  The fire department reads this as well, but really does not get involved in the inspection process.  I believe I need sprinklers.  The building inspector does not think I need them because I will not have more than 4 units.  I don't read anything about 4 or more units.  I am trying to locate something in writing either way so I can do it right the first time and he does not come back in 6 months changing his mind.


 

Is this in an incorporated city

Or Texas county area??

You say remodel explain a little more

What was it like before remodel??


----------



## cda

Jonathan Shoemaker said:


> I have a two story duplex/apartment I am remodeling.  It will have 3-4 separate apartments once complete.  I read in section 903 that two or more units require sprinklers.  The fire department reads this as well, but really does not get involved in the inspection process.  I believe I need sprinklers.  The building inspector does not think I need them because I will not have more than 4 units.  I don't read anything about 4 or more units.  I am trying to locate something in writing either way so I can do it right the first time and he does not come back in 6 months changing his mind.




What edition of code are you looking at??


----------



## Jonathan Shoemaker

incorpor


cda said:


> Is this in an incorporated city
> 
> Or Texas county area??
> 
> You say remodel explain a little more
> 
> What was it like before remodel??[/QUO
> 
> It's an incorporated city.  It's a gut job.  Gut and start new


----------



## my250r11

Lots of variables to your question: What Year Code are you using? What level of alteration is it as defined in the IEBC? Does the code in your area under any State or local amendments? 
2015 IFC requires all R occ. to be sprinkled if i remember correctly.


----------



## Jonathan Shoemaker

cda said:


> What edition of code are you looking at??


2015 as per the City Inspector


----------



## Jonathan Shoemaker

my250r11 said:


> Lots of variables to your question: What Year Code are you using? What level of alteration is it as defined in the IEBC? Does the code in your area under any State or local amendments?
> 2015 IFC requires all R occ. to be sprinkled if i remember correctly.



2015 Code, not familiar with the alteration question but it is a complete gut job, and we have no local amendments.  I read it plain as day that I need sprinklers.  I believe I need them.  I also have never built to code or read a code book, so I second guess myself when the building inspector himself says I do NOT need them and then says he thinks it apply to 4 or more units.  I don't read any of that.  It makes me wonder if I am missing something.


----------



## my250r11

Sorry, 2015 IBC & IFC Require spinklers unless it is amended


----------



## my250r11

You can use a 13R system in 4 stories or less/ or not exceeding 60ft. IBC 2015-903.3.1.2

2015 IBC-903.2.8 Requires all R occ. to be sprinkled, same in IFC


----------



## my250r11

Would be a level 3 alteration and 2015 IEBC-804.2.2 require sprinklers also.


----------



## mtlogcabin

2012 IEBC does not require it to have a fire suppression system installed in a 2 story R Occupancy. Check the 2015 sections I do not have a copy to see if there was a change 

904.1 Automatic sprinkler systems.
Automatic sprinkler systems shall be provided in all work areas when required by Section 804.2 or this section.

804.2.2 Groups A, B, E, F-1, H, I, M, R-1, R-2, R-4, S-1 and S-2.
In buildings with occupancies in Groups A, B, E, F-1, H, I, M, R-1, R-2, R-4, S-1 and S-2, work areas that have exits or corridors shared by more than one tenant or that have exits or corridors serving an occupant load greater than 30 shall be provided with automatic sprinkler protection where all of the following conditions occur:

1.    The work area is required to be provided with automatic sprinkler protection in accordance with the International Building Code as applicable to new construction; and

2.    The work area exceeds 50 percent of the floor area.

Exceptions:

1.    Work areas in Group R occupancies three stories or less in height.

2.    If the building does not have sufficient municipal water supply for design of a fire sprinkler system available to the floor without installation of a new fire pump, work areas shall be protected by an automatic smoke detection system throughout all occupiable spaces other than sleeping units or individual dwelling units that activates the occupant notification system in accordance with Sections 907.4, 907.5 and 907.6 of the International Building Code.


----------



## cda

What was it like before remodel??

Four units

Two units

Someone's house

Just basically doing cosmetic new sinks, tile, flooring paint??

No moving any walls?


----------



## Jonathan Shoemaker

mtlogcabin said:


> 2012 IEBC does not require it to have a fire suppression system installed in a 2 story R Occupancy. Check the 2015 sections I do not have a copy to see if there was a change
> 
> 904.1 Automatic sprinkler systems.
> Automatic sprinkler systems shall be provided in all work areas when required by Section 804.2 or this section.
> 
> 804.2.2 Groups A, B, E, F-1, H, I, M, R-1, R-2, R-4, S-1 and S-2.
> In buildings with occupancies in Groups A, B, E, F-1, H, I, M, R-1, R-2, R-4, S-1 and S-2, work areas that have exits or corridors shared by more than one tenant or that have exits or corridors serving an occupant load greater than 30 shall be provided with automatic sprinkler protection where all of the following conditions occur:
> 
> 1.    The work area is required to be provided with automatic sprinkler protection in accordance with the International Building Code as applicable to new construction; and
> 
> 2.    The work area exceeds 50 percent of the floor area.
> 
> Exceptions:
> 
> 1.    Work areas in Group R occupancies three stories or less in height.
> 
> 2.    If the building does not have sufficient municipal water supply for design of a fire sprinkler system available to the floor without installation of a new fire pump, work areas shall be protected by an automatic smoke detection system throughout all occupiable spaces other than sleeping units or individual dwelling units that activates the occupant notification system in accordance with Sections 907.4, 907.5 and 907.6 of the International Building Code.




Three stories or less looks to be omited, but everything else is the same.


----------



## Jonathan Shoemaker

my250r11 said:


> Sorry, 2015 IBC & IFC Require spinklers unless it is amended



That's how I read it.  Not sure how the Building inspector came up with something different.  How does the existing building code effect this?  I saw someone refer to the existing building code.  I find myself going between the Residential Code, Building Code, and Existing Building Code.  Once I am comfortable with my reading, it becomes a blur am getting turned around and confused now.  Seems to me it would be easier to stay away from the existing building code.  confused


----------



## Jonathan Shoemaker

cda said:


> What was it like before remodel??
> 
> Four units
> 
> Two units
> 
> Someone's house
> 
> Just basically doing cosmetic new sinks, tile, flooring paint??
> 
> No moving any walls?[/QUOTE
> 
> 6 Units down to 3-4 units.  The duplex used to be a 2 story house, so all I have to do is unboard the doorways in the structure that they closed off to make seperate units.   It is a shiplap house, so it has the real 3/4 wood constructions all through it.  I am replacing sheet rock, windows, doors, new floors, new plumbing and electrical, it's all going to  be new.


----------



## Jonathan Shoemaker

my250r11 said:


> Would be a level 3 alteration and 2015 IEBC-804.2.2 require sprinklers also.



Can you explain how the existing building code fits in with the Building code and residential code?  I have all three and I am reading them.  I also bounce back and forth, but it starts to screw me up.  Seems like I could just pick the building code, suck it up, and not try to find loopholes in the existing building code.  Does that makes since or and I screwed up again?


----------



## Pcinspector1

Must not have zoning there. Went from a Duplex to multi-family.

You'll notice that mtnlogcabin post #15, section 804.2.2 excludes R-3 (One -Two family dwelling) cuz you use another code book.

Also the IEBC has to be adopted by that AHJ to allow its use.


----------



## cda

Not an IEBC person

But first either a city has to adopt it to be enforced

Or if not adopted and you want to use it ,, get a city to use it as an alternative 

Would have to read the scope,  but I think if you are working on an existing building you do not have to bring everything up to code


----------



## cda

Free code book access till they move it



http://legacycodes.iccsafe.org/I-Codes.html


----------



## my250r11

mtlogcabin said:


> 2012 IEBC does not require it to have a fire suppression system installed in a 2 story R Occupancy. Check the 2015 sections I do not have a copy to see if there was a change
> 
> 904.1 Automatic sprinkler systems.
> Automatic sprinkler systems shall be provided in all work areas when required by Section 804.2 or this section.
> 
> 804.2.2 Groups A, B, E, F-1, H, I, M, R-1, R-2, R-4, S-1 and S-2.
> In buildings with occupancies in Groups A, B, E, F-1, H, I, M, R-1, R-2, R-4, S-1 and S-2, work areas that have exits or corridors shared by more than one tenant or that have exits or corridors serving an occupant load greater than 30 shall be provided with automatic sprinkler protection where all of the following conditions occur:
> 
> 1.    The work area is required to be provided with automatic sprinkler protection in accordance with the International Building Code as applicable to new construction; and
> 
> 2.    The work area exceeds 50 percent of the floor area.
> 
> Exceptions:
> 
> 1.    Work areas in Group R occupancies three stories or less in height.
> 
> 2.    If the building does not have sufficient municipal water supply for design of a fire sprinkler system available to the floor without installation of a new fire pump, work areas shall be protected by an automatic smoke detection system throughout all occupiable spaces other than sleeping units or individual dwelling units that activates the occupant notification system in accordance with Sections 907.4, 907.5 and 907.6 of the International Building Code.




2015 IEBC does not have that exception.


----------



## my250r11

If the R-2 Classification is correct, then You would not use the IRC. Use IBC and IEBC if adopted.

If you were using IRC, anything outside the prescriptive, you fall back to the IBC.


----------



## mtlogcabin

It is an existing building therefore you should start in the existing building code which may seem confusing when you first look at it but when you understand how it works you will realize you are not looking for "loopholes" 

Effective Use of the International Existing Building Code

The International Existing Building Code is a model code in the International Code family of codes intended to provide alternative approaches to remodeling, repair or alteration of existing buildings. A large number of existing buildings and structures do not comply with the current building code requirements for new construction. Although many of these buildings are potentially salvageable, rehabilitation is often cost-prohibitive because compliance with all the requirements for new construction could require extensive changes that go well beyond the value of the building or the original scope of the rehabilitation. At the same time, it is necessary to regulate construction in existing buildings that undergo additions, alterations, renovations, extensive repairs or change of occupancy. Such activity represents an opportunity to ensure that new construction complies with the current building codes and that existing conditions are maintained, at a minimum, to their current level of compliance or are improved as required to meet basic safety levels. To accomplish this objective, and to make the rehabilitation process easier, this code allows for options for controlled departure from full compliance with the International Codes dealing with new construction, while maintaining basic levels for fire prevention, structural and life safety features of the rehabilitated building.

This code provides three main options for a designer in dealing with rehabilitation of existing buildings. These are laid out in Section 301 of this code:

OPTION 1: Work for alteration, repair, change of occupancy, addition or relocation of all existing buildings shall be done in accordance with the Prescriptive Compliance Method given in Chapter 4. It should be noted that this same method is provided in Chapter 34 of the International Building Code.

OPTION 2: Work for alteration, repair, change of occupancy, addition or relocation of all existing buildings shall be done in accordance with the Work Area Compliance Method given in Chapters 5 through 13.

OPTION 3: Work for alteration, repair, change of occupancy, addition or relocation of all existing buildings shall be done in accordance with the Performance Compliance Method given in Chapter 14. It should be noted that this option is also provided in Chapter 34 of the International Building Code.


----------



## Rick18071

Use the existing code book to start. It's easiest to use chapter 3 "Prescriptive Compliance Method".   If you are changing it from two apartments to 4 apartments it would be "a change of occupancy" from a house (complying to IRC) to R-2 (compiling to IBC). Also you need to use the "Alteration" and "Accessibility for Existing Buildings" sections.

Then anything you build must go by the IBC.


----------



## mtlogcabin

A local AHJ does not have to adopt the IEBC in order for a designer to use it.
It is already referenced in the IBC as an alternate method of compliance 

3401.6 Alternative compliance.
Work performed in accordance with the International Existing Building Code shall be deemed to comply with the provisions of this chapter.

If the dwelling units do not share an exit corridor then you still do not have have to sprinkle


----------



## Francis Vineyard

The IEBC section 301.1 exception is "another alternative to using the three compliance methods that allows for compliance with the laws in existence at the time the structure was originally built, unless the building has sustained substantial structural damage or is undergoing more than a limited structural alteration. Repairs and alterations in flood hazard areas have additional requirements to the laws in existence at the time the structure was originally built."

Review your state or local administrative provisions to verify if the code official has the authority or power to disallow this exception.


----------



## VillageInspector

Just off the top of my head if this building is less than three stories is it possible it does not requires sprinklers?


----------

