# Outlet Modifications



## ericr (Apr 24, 2016)

This looks nice!


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## Keystone (Apr 25, 2016)

That is one of the more asinine moves I have seen this year.


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## Msradell (Apr 25, 2016)

Certainly an interesting approach to solve the problem! Is it just a picture you found someplace or do you have some actual knowledge of where and how it was found? I'd love to hear the story behind it.


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## ICE (Apr 28, 2016)

On the one hand I am inclined to applaud the ingenuity behind this.....


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## mark handler (Apr 28, 2016)

But your correction said to make it flush with the face of the wall.......


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## ICE (Apr 28, 2016)

As happens so often, I currently have a contractor complaining about me for writing a correction regarding this issue.


```
314.19 Boxes Enclosing Flush Devices. Boxes used to
enclose flush devices shall be of such design that the
devices will be completely enclosed on back and sides
and [b]substantial support for the devices will be provided[/b].
Screws for supporting the box shall not be used in
attachment of the device contained therein.

314.20 In Wall or Ceiling. In walls or ceilings with a
surface of concrete, tile, [b]gypsum[/b], plaster, or other
noncombustible material, boxes employing a flush-type
cover or faceplate shall be installed so that the front edge
of the box, plaster ring, extension ring, or listed extender
will not be set back of the finished surface more than 6
mm (¼ in.).
[b]In walls and ceilings constructed of wood or other
combustible surface material[/b], boxes, plaster rings,
extension rings, or listed extenders shall be flush with the
finished surface or project therefrom.
```
[/CODE]I ask for outlet boxes to be flush with the wall finish when there is drywall or stucco. If the box is recessed with drywall the device yoke is against the drywall or taping compound and not the box. In time the device can become loose because the drywall or compound crumbles. With stucco it is because the box is a plaster stop.

Carlon Corp. tells me that the blue boxes have nubs that are used to determine how to place the box on a stud. They say that the nubs are 3/8"for 3/8" drywall. Of course that would work if 3/8" drywall was common.

The conundrum is that 314.2 mentions gypsum and drywall is made from gypsum. Now having recognized that, consider that drywall has a paper surface and paper is not noncombustible. 314.19 states that substantial support shall be provided. If the box is recessed there is no support from the box but if there is a hard surface like concrete or tile it wouldn't matter. If the surface is drywall, I have a hard time calling that "substantial support".

The code commentary that I have would allow the box to be set back 1/4" with an outer layer of gypsum board.

I put a call into Thomas & Betts and await a reply.

So I am asking the crowd to weigh in.

I think that I've got it with this one:


```
406.5 Receptacle Mounting. Receptacles shall be
mounted in boxes or assemblies designed for the purpose,
and such boxes or assemblies shall be securely fastened in
place unless otherwise permitted elsewhere in this Code.
(A) Boxes That Are Set Back. Receptacles mounted in
boxes that are set back from the finished surface as
permitted in 314.20 [B]shall be installed such that the
mounting yoke or strap of the receptacle is held rigidly at
the finished surface.[/B]
(B) Boxes That Are Flush. Receptacles mounted in
boxes that are flush with the finished surface or project
therefrom shall be installed such that the mounting yoke
or strap of the receptacle is held rigidly against the box or
box cover.
```
[/CODE]
(B) states that for boxes that are flush, the yoke shall be rigidly held against the box.  Recessed boxes deserve the same rigid mounting and drywall isn't up to the task.


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## north star (Apr 28, 2016)

*$ = $*

Please provide a Code based & adopted, universally understood, definition of

"held rigidly in place" ?

Gray duct tape will hold it in place "rigidly" according to my definition.

*$ = $*


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## fatboy (Apr 28, 2016)

WOW.............just WOW............


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## jdfruit (Apr 28, 2016)

Was this install by "amateur" or supposed "professional"?


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## Builder Bob (May 5, 2016)

In the transition, it appears the original picture was lost...

So here it is


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## ericr (May 6, 2016)

I just saw it on the internet.  Thank god i did not see it in a home.


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