# island/peninsula AND room divider receptacles



## peach (Sep 12, 2010)

We've hashed (and re-hashed) this topic before.. but I have fresh perspective, so bear with me.

We all know that there needs to be one receptacle to serve the countertop in this instance.  The IRC says it can be 20" above the countertop... there is an exception that allows it to be beneath the countertop (less than 6" overhang)... perfect sense.. appliances will get pulled off if the receptacle/overhang don't meet code.

the question is this:  since (in addition to the receptacle to serve the countertop), there will be a requirement for a receptacle on the wall side as well, and, as all receptacles CAN be 5.5' above the floor, can this particular receptacle be within 12" of the countertop rather than hammer height above the floor?

What say you?


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## dcspector (Sep 12, 2010)

As long as that other receptacle outlet per nec 210.52(A)(1)(3) is not installed within 12" of the countertop below an overhang of 6" or more per nec 210.52©(2) ,(3) and exception (5)


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## peach (Sep 12, 2010)

I don't read it that way.... 2 different receptacles... 2 different purposes..

I don't necessarily disagree, dcinspector..  but that's not how I could read it, if I was the electrician.


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## dcspector (Sep 12, 2010)

Sooo whats the point of the 210.52©(5) exception ?


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## mark handler (Sep 12, 2010)




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## peach (Sep 12, 2010)

because it's not serving the countertop.. nor meant to serve the countertop.


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## peach (Sep 12, 2010)

ok Mark... that island still needs a receptacle on the wall side (wall space > 2' in length) ... that's the discussion


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## mark handler (Sep 12, 2010)

peach said:
			
		

> there will be a requirement for a receptacle on the wall side as well, and, as all receptacles CAN be 5.5' above the floor, can this particular receptacle be within 12" of the countertop rather than hammer height above the floor?


No.

And not all Islands/peninsulas are made with walls, many are casework (cabnets) and not walllines.


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## peach (Sep 12, 2010)

A room divider is still a wall, Mark... a receptacle serving the living room (or whatever it is) on the other side of the kitchen is required... if the cabinet/wall is 2' in length.

Get into this same arguement will wall space behind doors... it's required.


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## mark handler (Sep 12, 2010)

Is a room divider a wall?

No not always

Not a black and white issue, more of shades of grey


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## peach (Sep 12, 2010)

no... but a room divider is always a room divider... and it's always "wall space" according to the NEC 210.52(A) (2).. any space 2' or more...


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## dcspector (Sep 12, 2010)

Disagree. If that Casework was a room divider let's say between Kitchen and dining room or a living room then NEC 210.52(A)(2)(3) The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as freestanding bar type counters or railings. The point that the op is trying to make is that if one installs a receptacle outlet within 12" of the top below that is greater than 6"  top overhang....regardless, it is a violation of 210.52©(5)


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## peach (Sep 12, 2010)

thanks.. dc.. let's agree to disagree...  I don't think it's a good idea to have the room divider receptacle up where it may be tempting to use a small appliance.. but I have hundreds of feet of extension cords to still plug in that 2nd slow cooker even if it's on the floor.


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## dcspector (Sep 12, 2010)

Who cares what they do after inspection, as long as the intiall install meets the code. And no I will not agree to disagree. I simply disagree with you.


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## peach (Sep 12, 2010)

ok...

Let's draft a code change that ALL receptacles serving the wall divider be floor mounted receptacles?


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## mark handler (Sep 12, 2010)

peach said:
			
		

> ok... Let's draft a code change that ALL receptacles serving the wall divider be floor mounted receptacles?


Room dividers are not always permanent


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## peach (Sep 12, 2010)

you aren't an inspector, are you Mark?


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## mark handler (Sep 12, 2010)

peach said:
			
		

> you aren't an inspector, are you Mark?


No........


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## peach (Sep 12, 2010)

good!!!!  we don't need more designers out there interpreting the code.


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## jar546 (Sep 12, 2010)

peach said:
			
		

> good!!!!  we don't need more designers out there interpreting the code.


I am going to assume that was not a hurtful statement, simply some minor *&^% busting between friends.

I would like to know what the "room divider" is constructed of.......


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## mark handler (Sep 12, 2010)

peach said:
			
		

> good!!!!  we don't need more designers out there interpreting the code.


???????????????????????????????????


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## north star (Sep 12, 2010)

** * **

Mark stated:



> *Is a room divider a wall?    No not always.*


I believe that peach is referring to a "fixed" wall divider, per Art. 210.52(A)(2)(3).** * **


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## chris kennedy (Sep 13, 2010)

peach said:
			
		

> the question is this:  since (in addition to the receptacle to serve the countertop), there will be a requirement for a receptacle on the wall side as well, and, as all receptacles CAN be 5.5' above the floor, can this particular receptacle be within 12" of the countertop rather than hammer height above the floor?
> 
> What say you?


What rooms are divided here? 210.52(B)(2) may be a player here.


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## Uncle Bob (Sep 13, 2010)

I think some distinctions should be made here.

I believe a room divider would be a half-wall (height) or see-through wall (permenant structure).  This would require general use receptacles. 

Kitchen Islands and Peninsulas are cabinets; not walls.  I don't see them as room dividers.  They are not part of the structure; even as non-bearing.

Additional receptacles installed (but, not required) on cabinets; must meet the requirements (including being GFCI) of locations on cabinets; including kitchen Islands and Peninsulas.

Uncle Bob


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## RJJ (Sep 13, 2010)

UB: kinda agree! Need to look at it as apples for apples. What is consider by the code to be a room divider?

Would book shelves be a divider. Maybe if closed on one side! How about when just open on both sides?


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## Yankee (Sep 13, 2010)

ok, I'll give it a shot . . .

I don't think it is a wall if it is a cabinate. It's a cabinate with a countertop.

If it is framed then it is a wall. Might have a countertop on it, but it's a wall.


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## Uncle Bob (Sep 13, 2010)

RJJ,

I think the distinction is whether a wall (including half-wall) is installed; when refering to general use receptacles.

If the bookcase is installed across a floor space without a permenent wall; then I do not believe it is part of the permenent structure; and no receptacles are required. Where a book case is installed against a wall; then general use receptacles are required on the wall.

We've all seen wall dividers (permenent walls) installed; between the kitchen and dining area (half walls and see-through walls) with kitchen cabinets attached to them; sometimes as long as 10 to 16 feet long. These are not peninsulas because they are attached to permenent walls.

These walls require general use receptacles; and this is where the codes get tricky; if the wall has a counter top installed above it. This is a case where the Building Official is going to have to take responsibility for making the call.

And, that's the beauty of being an inspector; agree or disagree; it's the Building Officials responsibility to make the call.

Uncle Bob


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## RJJ (Sep 13, 2010)

I agree: This is a gray area at times. With large kitchens and open connections to family rooms, dens etc. it becomes a judgement call.

How are the obstruction configured, used etc.


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## north star (Sep 13, 2010)

*& & &*

peach asked:



> *the question is this: since (in addition to the receptacle **to serve the**countertop), there will be a requirement for a receptacle on the wall side as well, and, as all receptacles CAN be 5.5' above the floor, can this particular receptacle be within 12" of the countertop rather than hammer height above the floor?*
> 
> *What say you?*


 The short answer is [ IMO ] "Yes", the receptacle COULD be installed within 12" of the countertop surface,however, if that particular receptacle were installed within 12" of the countertop surface, it might look

"out-of-place" compared to the other receptacles, ...on the other wall lines. Since most electricians typically

follow a pattern of installation, wouldn't they install this particular receptacle at "hammer height" above the

floor also?

Need some more input from you peach. 

*& & &*


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## GHRoberts (Sep 13, 2010)

I don't think there is a code requirement that one recept cannot meet 2 requirements.

20amp counter top and the 20 amp wall recept in the dining and similar rooms. Seems doable.

I have a kitchen counter top with a bit over 2 feet of wall space before a door. My counter top recept seems to meet both requirements. (At least I hope so.)


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## Inspector 102 (Sep 13, 2010)

I guess I am just a dumb inspector but I view this as an issue for 210-52©(2) and with a single outlet, GFCI protected, seems to meet this requirement. I view the installation shown in the previous picture as an island and not wall space, because of the overhang created by the countertop. I have never viewed 210-52(A)(2)(3) as wall space but I can certainly see how it can be applied. I enjoy the discussions created at this site and will continue to view to see how this arguement pans out. WARNING: Don't get Peach angry


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## chris kennedy (Sep 13, 2010)

Yankee said:
			
		

> I don't think it is a wall if it is a cabinate. It's a cabinate with a countertop.


The NEC says it is.



> 210.52(A)(2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following:  (1)     Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings
> 
> (2)     The space occupied by fixed panels in exterior walls, excluding sliding panels
> 
> (3)     The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as freestanding bar-type counters or railings





			
				GHRoberts said:
			
		

> I don't think there is a code requirement that one recept cannot meet 2 requirements.


In the OP case there might be, depending on what to rooms are divided.



> 210.52(B)(2) No Other Outlets. The two or more small-appliance branch circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) shall have no other outlets.


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