# Loc. of "Exit" for travel dist. measurem't, when door opens to small covered area?



## Anjarch (Dec 28, 2015)

Hi all,

I am working on renovations to a 2-unit residential building and need to measure the travel distance from the most remote point of the ground-level unit floor plan to the "exit".  This is a lot-line building at the 2 sides and the front (e.g. the front wall of the building is along the property line and the sidewalk butts up to it).  One enters the building by stepping up one step from the sidewalk into a small, recessed open "porch" which has doors to the two units.  By "recessed", I mean that the porch is covered above by the upper-level unit.  It is completely open to the sidewalk, i.e. it is not an enclosed vestibule.  The porch is about 4'-3" deep (back from the sidewalk) and 8'-6" side-to-side.

My question is: when measuring the travel distance, do I measure from the point at which you walk through the door?  Or must I include the small distance (+/- 5') one would travel from the door to the property line and step on to the sidewalk?  (It's measured as 5' because of the way building officials always ask us to measure this stuff--at right angles, along walls, etc.).  Because of Murphy's Law, the answer to this question will determine whether or not I and my clients have to go through a LOT of additional hassle.

Thanks for any info you can provide,

Andy


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## cda (Dec 28, 2015)

guess you get the prize for longest between posts!!


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## cda (Dec 28, 2015)

Anjarch said:
			
		

> Hi all,I am working on renovations to a 2-unit residential building and need to measure the travel distance from the most remote point of the ground-level unit floor plan to the "exit".  This is a lot-line building at the 2 sides and the front (e.g. the front wall of the building is along the property line and the sidewalk butts up to it).  One enters the building by stepping up one step from the sidewalk into a small, recessed open "porch" which has doors to the two units.  By "recessed", I mean that the porch is covered above by the upper-level unit.  It is completely open to the sidewalk, i.e. it is not an enclosed vestibule.  The porch is about 4'-3" deep (back from the sidewalk) and 8'-6" side-to-side.
> 
> My question is: when measuring the travel distance, do I measure from the point at which you walk through the door?  Or must I include the small distance (+/- 5') one would travel from the door to the property line and step on to the sidewalk?  (It's measured as 5' because of the way building officials always ask us to measure this stuff--at right angles, along walls, etc.).  Because of Murphy's Law, the answer to this question will determine whether or not I and my clients have to go through a LOT of additional hassle.
> 
> ...


are  you under IRC and if so which edition??

or are you calling these apartments?


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## north star (Dec 28, 2015)

*$ ~ : >*

If using the IBC, see *Section 1016.3 -* *Measurement:*

"Exit access travel distance shall be measured from the most remote

point within a story along the natural and unobstructed path of horizontal

and vertical  egress travel to the entrance to an exit.*"*

*? < & #*


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## steveray (Dec 28, 2015)

IRC would not have travel distance...

EXIT. That portion of a means of egress system which is separated from other interior spaces of a building or structure by fire-resistance-rated construction and opening protectives as required to provide a protected path of egress travel between the exit access and the exit discharge. Exits include exterior exit doors at the level of exit discharge,.......

EXIT DISCHARGE, LEVEL OF. The STORY at the point at which an exit terminates and an exit discharge begins.

1016.1 Travel distance limitations. Exits shall be so located on each story such that the maximum length of exit access travel, measured from the most remote point within a story along the natural and unobstructed path of egress travel to an exterior exit door at the level of exit discharge

It really depends on the current code and definition of level of exit discharge and interpretation thereof...


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 28, 2015)

> By "recessed", I mean that the porch is covered above by the upper-level unit. It is completely open to the sidewalk, i.e. it is not an enclosed vestibule. The porch is about 4'-3" deep (back from the sidewalk) and 8'-6" side-to-side.


Are you talking about the common path of travel requirements?

Rate the walls, doors and ceiling and there would be no question about a 5 ft travel distance.


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## Anjarch (Dec 28, 2015)

follow-up

Thanks for the replies, all...

CDA, is there an actual prize for longest time between posts?  Regardless, I'm grateful that a few years have passed since I got into a code-related jam!

I am in San Francisco and the project is under the California Building Code (which is adopted from the IBC).  San Francisco has not adopted the IRC.  The building is a "TIC" (tenancy-in-common) where the owners each own an undivided share of the building.

Essentially, the situation is that when you step through the front door from the unit, you're standing under an overhanging portion of the building.  This seems potentially dangerous in the event of a fire and may be an argument for defining the "exit" as the point at which you step out from under the building (in this case, stepping into the right-of-way), not when you step through the door.  But I know that in SF, where there are so many lot-line residential buildings, field inspectors allow an exit into a backyard, at which point the person has to go back under the building through an unenclosed "tunnel" below the 2nd floor that leads to the right-of-way at the front of the building.  That seems like an analogous situation; and my situation seems even less dangerous, since you just have to take a couple steps to be in the right-of-way...

Any further thoughts would be greatly appreciated.



			
				cda said:
			
		

> guess you get the prize for longest between posts!!


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## steveray (Dec 28, 2015)

EXIT DISCHARGE, LEVEL OF. The story at the point at which an exit terminates and an exit discharge begins.

 The term is intended to describe the story where the transition from exit to exit discharge occurs. At this level, the occupant needs only to move in a substantially horizontal path to move along exit discharge [see Figure 1002.1(7)]. Since the level is a volume rather than a horizontal plane, exterior exit steps may be part of the exit discharge when they provide access to the level that is closest to grade.

Exit discharge don't care if the the building is over it....


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 28, 2015)

> Exit discharge don't care if the the building is over it...


Technically you are still under the building and within the fire area. I agree on this particular residential project as described it is no big deal for the small travel distance for a covered entry. Even open courtyards have requirements so a narrow path bounded by exterior walls should have some protection builtin such as rated walls and should be included in the exit access travel distance. Out of the building does not equate to out of danger in all designs.

AREA, BUILDING. The area included within surrounding exterior walls (or exterior walls and fire walls) exclusive of vent shafts and courts. Areas of the building not provided with surrounding walls shall be included in the building area if such areas are included within the horizontal projection of the roof or floor above.


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## Msradell (Dec 28, 2015)

I think Steve brought up a very good point about the exit steps being the point to which you need to measure the travel distances. The steps are still an obstacle that must be overcome before you are free and clear of the building.


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## cda (Dec 28, 2015)

Msradell said:
			
		

> I think Steve brought up a very good point about the exit steps being the point to which you need to measure the travel distances. The steps are still an obstacle that must be overcome before you are free and clear of the building.


A little different, but once in a rated stairway, travel distance stops


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## steveray (Dec 29, 2015)

"bounded by exterior walls SHOULD have some protection builtin such as rated walls and SHOULD be included in the exit access travel distance."

I agree, but building area (or fire) is not referenced in exit or exit discharge...I think that language should probably change, but it reads how it reads...


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## north star (Dec 29, 2015)

*% >*

Anjarch,

What is the Inspector requiring, and does SF have some type of language

defining an actual exit point from the structure [ i.e. - at the Public Way,

...somewhere in the Exit Discharge Area, other ?  ] ?



*< %*


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