# SHORT NAILING



## Rider Rick (Mar 17, 2010)

Chapter 6 Wall Construction Table R602.3(1) 2006 IRC.

Question of the week

Nail spacing for rim joist or blocking to mud sill?

Thank you,

Rick


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## Robert Ellenberg (Mar 17, 2010)

Re: SHORT NAILING

I can't find it but we go 6"oc which is what it calls for where rim joist to top plate connection is used.


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## Rider Rick (Mar 18, 2010)

Re: SHORT NAILING



			
				Robert Ellenberg said:
			
		

> I can't find it but we go 6"oc which is what it calls for where rim joist to top plate connection is used.


 Thank you for your reply Robert.

To me and some of the framers that seems to be alot of nails for the rim joist when the floor joist are nailed whith two 16 penny nails at the mudsill.

I'm not sure the rim joist to the mudsill is clear in table R602.3(1)

Thank you,

Rick

PS

Beach what's you take?


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## Code Neophyte (Mar 18, 2010)

Re: SHORT NAILING

A dumb reply, admittedly, but why would the requirement for "Rim joist to top plate" (12th line down on T602.3(1)) be any different, in terms of physical characteristics and dynamics, from "Rim joist to mudsill"?  (I'm seriously asking - not being a smart aleck)


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## Rider Rick (Mar 18, 2010)

Re: SHORT NAILING



			
				Code Neophyte said:
			
		

> A dumb reply, admittedly, but why would the requirement for "Rim joist to top plate" (12th line down on T602.3(1)) be any different, in terms of physical characteristics and dynamics, from "Rim joist to mudsill"?  (I'm seriously asking - not being a smart aleck)


Code Neophyte,

No dumb replies in the code business.

I ask this question because two different framers on two different jobs asked me this week.

These are single story houses and they are nailing 16 penny nails at 6" on center and the rim joist are splitting.

When I was framing we nailed the rim joist to mud sill with 16 penny 16" on center.

Maybe the problem is the code is 8 penny nails 6" on center.

Thank you,

Rick


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## peach (Mar 18, 2010)

Re: SHORT NAILING

OH...  like 8-16d nails on each side of a strap for a  top plate notch isn't going to split the top plate?

it will... it does.. yet.. we enforce it..


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## Glennman CBO (Mar 18, 2010)

Re: SHORT NAILING

I've always taken the rim joist to top plate as being the same as rim joist to mud sill.

I've never been challenged on it, and I suppose if I ever am, I might need to eat crow.

In my previous jurisdiction, it was always on the plans in nearly every project I inspected as 6" o.c. We were in a D-2 zone, and the engineers always had it specified (almost)

If they toe nail the joists to the mud sill, I would take that partially into account, but the engineered plans I used to see had both the 6" o.c. at the rim (and/or blocking) and (typically) (2) nails into the mud sill at the ends of the joists as well. In that case, they would both be required. Alot of those houses had I-joists, and those required the (2) nails.


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## Heaven (Mar 18, 2010)

Re: SHORT NAILING

So, what if there is no rim (band) joist? Isn't purpose of a band joist to "block" the floor joists from rotation, not to attach to the mud sill?


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## Glennman CBO (Mar 19, 2010)

Re: SHORT NAILING

Both.


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## Heaven (Mar 19, 2010)

Re: SHORT NAILING

If it is permissible to build without a bandsil, why would there be a required schedule of nailing to mudsill? If the nailing were required, wouldn't the band joist also be required?

Is there a requirement for a band joist?


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## Rider Rick (Mar 19, 2010)

Re: SHORT NAILING

Heaven,

There is no code requirement to use a band/rim joist the framers use rim joist because it is faster to frame and easier to plumb and line.

Rick


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## Heaven (Mar 19, 2010)

Re: SHORT NAILING

Would it follow then that there is no required spacing for nailing the rim/band joist (or blocking) to the sill?


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## TJacobs (Mar 19, 2010)

Re: SHORT NAILING

2006 IRC

R502.7 Lateral restraint at supports.

Joists shall be supported laterally at the ends by full-depth solid blocking not less than 2 inches (51 mm) nominal in thickness; or by attachment to a full-depth header, band or rim joist, or to an adjoining stud or shall be otherwise provided with lateral support to prevent rotation.

In the WFCM, Table 3.1 Nailing Schedule has "Band Joist to Sill or Top Plate (Toe-nailed)" = 2-16d common or 3-16d box nails per foot.


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## Heaven (Mar 19, 2010)

Re: SHORT NAILING



			
				TJacobs said:
			
		

> 2006 IRCR502.7 Lateral restraint at supports.
> 
> Joists shall be supported laterally at the ends by full-depth solid blocking not less than 2 inches (51 mm) nominal in thickness; or by attachment to a full-depth header, band or rim joist, or to an adjoining stud or shall be otherwise provided with lateral support to prevent rotation.
> 
> In the WFCM, Table 3.1 Nailing Schedule has "Band Joist to Sill or Top Plate (Toe-nailed)" = 2-16d common or 3-16d box nails per foot.


Is that table referenced in the IRC?


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## Code Neophyte (Mar 20, 2010)

Re: SHORT NAILING



> Is that table referenced in the IRC?


The entirety of the WFCM is referenced in the IRC.  It is allowed to be used prescriptively.


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## Heaven (Mar 20, 2010)

Re: SHORT NAILING



			
				Code Neophyte said:
			
		

> > Is that table referenced in the IRC?


The entirety of the WFCM is referenced in the IRC.  It is allowed to be used prescriptively.

I assumed so but then I looked at the referenced standards in chapter 43 on-line http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/I ... 000019.htm (don't have my book with me) and I don't see the WFCM listed (?).


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## peach (Mar 21, 2010)

Re: SHORT NAILING

It's incorporated in Section R301.2.1.1 Design Criteria... in Referenced Standards, it's under AF&PA (American Forest and Paper Assocation).


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## Code Neophyte (Mar 21, 2010)

Re: SHORT NAILING

Thanks, Peach.  After reading Heaven's reply, I had to go back and re-read the OP to make sure the question wasn't framed in the context of the '09 codes.  I thought perhaps the Green trend had eliminated a lot of nailing requirements, due to the high pollutant emissions of the steel plants, the fossil fuel usage required to ship nails (in most cases, over 150 miles - G*& forbid!), the energy use by air compressors to power the pneumatic nailers, or even worse, the methane release when framers use the "cordless" MAP gas-powered nailers!


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## peach (Mar 21, 2010)

Re: SHORT NAILING

ever heard of this crazy invention?  It's called a hammer...  now that's as green as it gets!


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## Code Neophyte (Mar 21, 2010)

Re: SHORT NAILING

I _have_ heard of them, although I thought OSHA had outlawed them due to their lack of a safety mechanism.  I only recently learned that - in event of power outage or other emergency - they can be used for the _entire_ nail-driving process (I had previously understood they were only used to "set" pneumatic nails that were not driven all the way in or to knock off concrete ties that remained after formwork has been removed) :shock:  :lol:


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## brudgers (Mar 21, 2010)

Re: SHORT NAILING

A shoe is a hammering device and can legally be used to drive exempt nails.


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## Heaven (Mar 21, 2010)

Re: SHORT NAILING



			
				peach said:
			
		

> It's incorporated in Section R301.2.1.1 Design Criteria... in Referenced Standards, it's under AF&PA (American Forest and Paper Assocation).


Thank you,

_"R301.2.1.1 Design criteria._

_Construction in regions where the basic wind speeds from Figure R301.2(4) equal or exceed 100 miles per hour (45 m/s) in hurricane-prone regions, or 110 miles per hour (49 m/s) elsewhere, shall be designed in accordance with one of the following: etc etc"_

My area is not in one of these regions. Is there are other code language that requires nailing from a mud sill to a rim/band joist?


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