# Outdoor built in grills/ kitchens



## cda

Does anyone regulate the building of outdoor grills/ kitchens as far as the heat producing devices themselves.  When it is attached to the house or under a combustible patio cover.

If so is it  a local admendment or something out of the IRC?

If local admendment, can you post it.

Thanks


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## khsmith55

You may want to check the IFC. Beginning in 2009 the IFC is applicable to buildings under the IRC.


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## cda

Seems like ifc excepts requirements for single family homes


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## mtlogcabin

G2406.3 (303.6) Outdoor locations.

Appliances installed in outdoor locations shall be either listed for outdoor installation or provided with protection from outdoor environmental factors that influence the operability, durability and safety of the appliance.

G2415.16 (404.16) Location of outlets.

The unthreaded portion of piping outlets shall extend not less than l inch (25 mm) through finished ceilings and walls and where extending through floors, outdoor patios and slabs, shall not be less than 2 inches (51 mm) above them. The outlet fitting or piping shall be securely supported. Outlets shall not be placed behind doors. Outlets shall be located in the room or space where the appliance is installed.

Exception: Listed and labeled flush-mounted-type quick-disconnect devices and listed and labeled gas convenience outlets shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s installation instructions.

G2422.1 (411.1) Connecting appliances.

Appliances shall be connected to the piping system by one of the following:

1.    Rigid metallic pipe and fittings.

2.    Corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) where installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.

3.    Listed and labeled appliance connectors in compliance with ANSI Z21.24 and installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s installation instructions and located entirely in the same room as the appliance.

4.    Listed and labeled quick-disconnect devices used in conjunction with listed and labeled appliance connectors.

5.    Listed and labeled convenience outlets used in conjunction with listed and labeled appliance connectors.

6.    Listed and labeled outdoor appliance connectors in compliance with ANSI Z21.75/CSA 6.27 and installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s installation instructions.

SECTION G2454 (636)

OUTDOOR DECORATIVE APPLIANCES

G2454.1 (636.1) General.

Permanently fixed-in-place outdoor decorative appliances shall be tested in accordance with ANSI Z21.97 and shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.


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## cda

> G2406.3 (303.6) Outdoor locations.Appliances installed in outdoor locations shall be either listed for outdoor installation or provided with protection from outdoor environmental factors that influence the operability, durability and safety of the appliance.
> 
> G2415.16 (404.16) Location of outlets.
> 
> The unthreaded portion of piping outlets shall extend not less than l inch (25 mm) through finished ceilings and walls and where extending through floors, outdoor patios and slabs, shall not be less than 2 inches (51 mm) above them. The outlet fitting or piping shall be securely supported. Outlets shall not be placed behind doors. Outlets shall be located in the room or space where the appliance is installed.
> 
> Exception: Listed and labeled flush-mounted-type quick-disconnect devices and listed and labeled gas convenience outlets shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturers installation instructions.
> 
> G2422.1 (411.1) Connecting appliances.
> 
> Appliances shall be connected to the piping system by one of the following:
> 
> 1.    Rigid metallic pipe and fittings.
> 
> 2.    Corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) where installed in accordance with the manufacturers instructions.
> 
> 3.    Listed and labeled appliance connectors in compliance with ANSI Z21.24 and installed in accordance with the manufacturers installation instructions and located entirely in the same room as the appliance.
> 
> 4.    Listed and labeled quick-disconnect devices used in conjunction with listed and labeled appliance connectors.
> 
> 5.    Listed and labeled convenience outlets used in conjunction with listed and labeled appliance connectors.
> 
> 6.    Listed and labeled outdoor appliance connectors in compliance with ANSI Z21.75/CSA 6.27 and installed in accordance with the manufacturers installation instructions.
> 
> SECTION G2454 (636)
> 
> OUTDOOR DECORATIVE APPLIANCES
> 
> G2454.1 (636.1) General.
> 
> Permanently fixed-in-place outdoor decorative appliances shall be tested in accordance with ANSI Z21.97 and shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturers instructions.


My boss does not like bbq or grill installed under patios or against houses

Some reason bldg bumps them to fire


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## khsmith55

CDA, up until 2009 the IFC did not apply to IRC buildings. Unfortunately that changed, refer to 2009 IFC section 102.5. As to your original thread, 2009 IFC section(s) may have implications.


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## cda

> CDA' date=' up until 2009 the IFC did not apply to IRC buildings. Unfortunately that changed, refer to 2009 IFC section 102.5. As to your original thread, 2009 IFC section(s) may have implications.[/quote']Put unless I am missing something in the sections that might apply bbg and grills and such it says:
> 
> Exceptions:
> 
> 1. One- and two-family dwellings.
> 
> If someone has a section where it applies to single family, I do not care which edition, please post it


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## north star

*% 55 %*

FWIW, ...here's the section that ***cda*** is referring to [ me thinks ].
From the `09 IFC, *Section 308.1.4 - Open-flame cooking devices:*
*"*Charcoal burners and other open-flame cooking devices shall not be operated
on combustible balconies or within 10 feet (3048 mm) of combustible
construction*.*
*Exceptions:*
*1.*One- and two-family dwellings.
*2.*Where buildings, balconies and decks are protected by an automatic
sprinkler system.
*3.* LP-gas cooking devices having LP-gas container with a water capacity
not greater than 21/2 pounds [nominal 1 pound (0.454 kg) LP-gas capacity]."

*5 %% 5*


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## cda

> *% 55 %*FWIW, ...here's the section that ***cda*** is referring to [ me thinks ].
> 
> From the `09 IFC, *Section 308.1.4 - Open-flame cooking devices:*
> 
> *"*Charcoal burners and other open-flame cooking devices shall not be operated
> 
> on combustible balconies or within 10 feet (3048 mm) of combustible
> 
> construction*.*
> 
> *Exceptions:*
> 
> *1.*One- and two-family dwellings.
> 
> *2.*Where buildings, balconies and decks are protected by an automatic
> 
> sprinkler system.
> 
> *3.* LP-gas cooking devices having LP-gas container with a water capacity
> 
> not greater than 21/2 pounds [nominal 1 pound (0.454 kg) LP-gas capacity]."
> 
> *5 %% 5*


Ding ding

Seeing if anyone has a local admendment regulating it

Or some other I code section


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## north star

*@ : @ : @*

See if these will help you ***cda***.

From the `09 IFC, *Section 102.10 - Conflicting provisions:*
*"*Where there is a conflict between a general requirement and a specific
requirement, the specific requirement shall be applicable...........Where,
in a specific case, different sections of this code specify different
materials, methods of construction or other requirements, *the*
*most restrictive shall govern.*".......IMO, this Section would trump
Section 308.1.4.

Also, from the `09 IRC, *Section G2408.5 (305.8) - Clearances*
*to combustible construction:*
"Heat-producing equipment and appliances shall be installed to
maintain the required clearances to combustible construction as
specified in the listing and manufacturer’s instructions......Such
clearances shall be reduced only in accordance with Section
G2409..............Clearances to combustibles shall include such
considerations as door swing, drawer pull, *overhead projections*
or shelving and window swing............Devices, such as door
stops or limits and closers, shall not be used to provide the
required clearances."

If I understand these two sections, ...the FCO and \ or BO
can require the outdoor appliances to be installed according
to the manufacturer' installation instructions [ i.e. - clearances
from combustibles ].......If no installation instructions are
available or cannot be downloaded, ...then, IMO, the FCO
and \ or the BO *CAN* make a determination on clearance
dimensions.

*@ : @ : @*


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## cda

> *@ : @ : @*See if these will help you ***cda***.
> 
> From the `09 IFC, *Section 102.10 - Conflicting provisions:*
> 
> *"*Where there is a conflict between a general requirement and a specific requirement,
> 
> the specific requirement shall be applicable...........Where, in a specific case,
> 
> different sections of this code specify different materials, methods of construction
> 
> or other requirements, *the most restrictive shall govern.*".......IMO, this Section
> 
> would trump Section 308.1.4.
> 
> Also, from the `09 IRC, *Section G2408.5 (305.8) - Clearances to combustible construction:*
> 
> "Heat-producing equipment and appliances shall be installed to maintain the required clearances
> 
> to combustible construction as specified in the listing and manufacturers instructions......Such
> 
> clearances shall be reduced only in accordance with Section G2409..............Clearances to
> 
> combustibles shall include such considerations as door swing, drawer pull, *overhead projections*
> 
> or shelving and window swing............Devices, such as door stops or limits and closers, shall not be
> 
> used to provide the required clearances."
> 
> If I understand these two sections, ...the FCO and \ or BO can require the outdoor appliances
> 
> to be installed according to the manufacturer' installation instructions [ i.e. - clearances
> 
> from combustibles ].......If no installation instructions are available or cannot be downloaded,
> 
> ...then, IMO, the FCO and \ or the BO *CAN* make a determination on clearance dimensions.
> 
> *@ : @ : @*


Thanks keep telling everyone base code does not have much regs on the outdoor kitchens.

Since I want one at my next house, not going to propose any code change!!


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## Marko moric

cda said:


> Thanks keep telling everyone base code does not have much regs on the outdoor kitchens.
> 
> Since I want one at my next house, not going to propose any code change!!



Questions regarding building codes for a gas built in. I was told if you build an island and put a grill built in you must have a dour under, within the island. Is this true? I am looking to build an island with a charcoal cooker underneath the gas grill. The chimney to the charcoal grill would come up through the island behind the gas grill. Is this possible? Do I need a barrier built between the two? If so what material. If not possible what can I do differently? Can I do a charcoal cooking box in the island then a Treager grill/charcoal cooker on top? Please help with ideas as I am building my prototype now.


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## cda

Marko moric said:


> Questions regarding building codes for a gas built in. I was told if you build an island and put a grill built in you must have a dour under, within the island. Is this true? I am looking to build an island with a charcoal cooker underneath the gas grill. The chimney to the charcoal grill would come up through the island behind the gas grill. Is this possible? Do I need a barrier built between the two? If so what material. If not possible what can I do differently? Can I do a charcoal cooking box in the island then a Treager grill/charcoal cooker on top? Please help with ideas as I am building my prototype now.





Interesting, do you have a link to a similar set up.


Not sure about your set ups


A charcoal grill under a gas fired grill ???  Does not sound like a good set up in a lot of ways.


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## Marko moric

cda said:


> Interesting, do you have a link to a similar set up.
> 
> 
> Not sure about your set ups
> 
> 
> A charcoal grill under a gas fired grill ???  Does not sound like a good set up in a lot of ways.



No, I don’t have anything similar to what I am planning on creating. If you can imagine for a second? Without revealing my prototype. A charcoal unit insert in the island, under the countertop. Then a built in that inserts at the top.  I’m just trying to understand more of the codes regarding standards and fire codes in and around gas grills. Can you build barriers between the two or is it not possible at all to do anything like this under a gas insert? Do I only keep a access door under a built-in and that’s it. If that’s the case then I’m sure I can do a charcoal built-in the top with the new charcoal design under it with a chimney.


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## Marko moric

Marko moric said:


> No, I don’t have anything similar to what I am planning on creating. If you can imagine for a second? Without revealing my prototype. A charcoal unit insert in the island, under the countertop. Then a built in that inserts at the top.  I’m just trying to understand more of the codes regarding standards and fire codes in and around gas grills. Can you build barriers between the two or is it not possible at all to do anything like this under a gas insert? Do I only keep a access door under a built-in and that’s it. If that’s the case then I’m sure I can do a charcoal built-in the top with the new charcoal design under it with a chimney.


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## Marko moric

cda said:


> Interesting, do you have a link to a similar set up.
> 
> 
> Not sure about your set ups
> 
> 
> A charcoal grill under a gas fired grill ???  Does not sound like a good set up in a lot of ways.


How can I post a photo to show you?


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## cda

Marko moric said:


> How can I post a photo to show you?




With out being a paying member,,,  which you can do

You have to make it a link and post the link 


Sorry that is above my pay grade.


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## cda

I am not sure how much patio kitchen are regulated???

Not my part of the code, but others will post.


I would say you have to install per manufacture instructions 

Which would mean you have to meet the clearance requirements!!
So pull up some install instructions and see what the clearances required are.



So do you want the option of cooking on both of these at the same time?????


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## Marko moric

north star said:


> *@ : @ : @*
> 
> See if these will help you ***cda***.
> 
> From the `09 IFC, *Section 102.10 - Conflicting provisions:*
> 
> *"*Where there is a conflict between a general requirement and a specific requirement,
> 
> the specific requirement shall be applicable...........Where, in a specific case,
> 
> different sections of this code specify different materials, methods of construction
> 
> or other requirements, *the most restrictive shall govern.*".......IMO, this Section
> 
> would trump Section 308.1.4.
> 
> Also, from the `09 IRC, *Section G2408.5 (305.8) - Clearances to combustible construction:*
> 
> "Heat-producing equipment and appliances shall be installed to maintain the required clearances
> 
> to combustible construction as specified in the listing and manufacturer’s instructions......Such
> 
> clearances shall be reduced only in accordance with Section G2409..............Clearances to
> 
> combustibles shall include such considerations as door swing, drawer pull, *overhead projections*
> 
> or shelving and window swing............Devices, such as door stops or limits and closers, shall not be
> 
> used to provide the required clearances."
> 
> If I understand these two sections, ...the FCO and \ or BO can require the outdoor appliances
> 
> to be installed according to the manufacturer' installation instructions [ i.e. - clearances
> 
> from combustibles ].......If no installation instructions are available or cannot be downloaded,
> 
> ...then, IMO, the FCO and \ or the BO *CAN* make a determination on clearance dimensions.
> 
> *@ : @ : @*


Had a question regarding residential outdoor built ins. If I was to build a counter top and install a built-in gas or charcoal unit this would be to code. My question is, can I build another charcoal box underneath that built-in (where doors usually go) with a chimney coming up behind the built-in?


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## steveray

Most of the fixed grills I have seen, the manufacturer does not allow installation under a roof for liability reasons....


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## Marko moric

steveray said:


> Most of the fixed grills I have seen, the manufacturer does not allow installation under a roof for liability reasons....



If I was to build a piece like this would an inspector turn it down or approve it? If I’m the manufacturer of the built in unit and manufacturer of the unit underneath it (that would have a fireproofed barrier) all would be left is getting pass the inspector right? I’m a building my prototype and trying to understand the codes more.


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## JCraver

Marko moric said:


> If I was to build a piece like this would an inspector turn it down or approve it? If I’m the manufacturer of the built in unit and manufacturer of the unit underneath it (that would have a fireproofed barrier) all would be left is getting pass the inspector right? I’m a building my prototype and trying to understand the codes more.



Is this a one-off, or are you wanting to manufacture these? 

Manufacturing, for sale:  If you get it listed by UL, and include in your installation literature that it is listed to do what you're asking, then most will approve it.  No UL listing and it's a much harder sell.

One-off, that nobody's ever seen before:  I doubt your inspector would know what to do with it.  I don't, and would have to dig into the code to see if I'd permit it or not.  And I'd be asking you for drawings, dimensions, etc.


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## cda

Marko moric said:


> Had a question regarding residential outdoor built ins. If I was to build a counter top and install a built-in gas or charcoal unit this would be to code. My question is, can I build another charcoal box underneath that built-in (where doors usually go) with a chimney coming up behind the built-in?





I would still question having charcoal grill under a gas grill.

Would you want to be able to cook on both at the same time???


From a BBQing fool, I do not see many people wanting this set up. Kind of like the side by side charcoal/ gas grill in in, To me does not make any sense.


any way """""""Would you want to be able to cook on both at the same time???"""""""""""""


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## cda

Marko moric said:


> If I was to build a piece like this would an inspector turn it down or approve it? If I’m the manufacturer of the built in unit and manufacturer of the unit underneath it (that would have a fireproofed barrier) all would be left is getting pass the inspector right? I’m a building my prototype and trying to understand the codes more.




Just meet required clearances required by manufacture of the gas grill.


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## ADAguy

Not the best idea, is the gas piped or bottled?


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## Marko moric

cda said:


> I would still question having charcoal grill under a gas grill.
> 
> Would you want to be able to cook on both at the same time???
> 
> 
> From a BBQing fool, I do not see many people wanting this set up. Kind of like the side by side charcoal/ gas grill in in, To me does not make any sense.
> 
> 
> any way """""""Would you want to be able to cook on both at the same time???"""""""""""""


Giving people options is the goal, from small parties to big parties. So if there was a charcoal or gas insert at the top I would give all the accessories, grill, pizza stone, flat top. Underneath you can bigger meats to full animals, and chickens on the rotisserie. Even baking bread to dishes with what is called a Peka. All charcoal.


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## cda

Marko moric said:


> Giving people options is the goal, from small parties to big parties. So if there was a charcoal or gas insert at the top I would give all the accessories, grill, pizza stone, flat top. Underneath you can bigger meats to full animals, and chickens on the rotisserie. Even baking bread to dishes with what is called a Peka. All charcoal.





Would have to see one set up

Being a cooker, and if I had the money not sure if I would go with that arrangement


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## Marko moric

cda said:


> Would have to see one set up
> 
> Being a cooker, and if I had the money not sure if I would go with that arrangement


I will be compleating my prototype by the end of the year. Stay tuned. You will be amazed at how functional, easy, clean and effortless it would be to use.


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