# service upgrade GFCI



## ICE (Mar 24, 2016)

If you are inspecting an electrical service upgrade and there is a swimming pool, do you ask for GFCI on the light and pump motor(s)?


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## Msradell (Mar 24, 2016)

In the Louisville area it's certainly required when you do a service upgrade. I know several circumstances where that is happened.


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## north star (Mar 25, 2016)

*% % %*





> If you are inspecting an electrical service upgrade and there is a swimming pool,do you ask for GFCI on the light and pump motor(s)?


So that we can have a starting place to consider & review, what Code, Editionand Section(s) are you referring to sir ?

*% % %*


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## ICE (Mar 25, 2016)

2014 California Electrical Code which is based on the 2013 CEC and 2011 NEC


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## mark handler (Mar 25, 2016)

Install Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Pools, Spas and Hot Tubs

CPSC Document #5039

https://www.cpsc.gov//PageFiles/118868/5039.pdf


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## north star (Mar 27, 2016)

*~ @ ~*

Article 110.3(A)(8), from the `11 NEC, would, ...IMO "require" the

GFCI protection to be installed with a Service upgrade.

I do not know which Section in the `16 Tiger Code applies, as I

do not have access to that particular code.

*~ @ ~*


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## ICE (Mar 27, 2016)

> *~ @ ~*Article 110.3(A)(8), from the `11 NEC, would, ...IMO "require" the
> 
> GFCI protection to be installed with a Service upgrade.
> 
> ...


110.3(A)(8) works fine.

Tiger code is a bit more pedestrian and I quote: "Anything that looks or sounds unsafe or goofy shall be fixed".


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## Pcinspector1 (Mar 28, 2016)

Clarification on topic:  electrical service upgrade

Does an electrical service upgrade include the Main Panel if it is being replaced or upgraded? If so does the residence get interconnected smokes, AFCI's and all the receptacles that require GFCI's get replaced?

If so that's brutal. we would't be getting the 60amp and 100amp Main Service Panels changed out here at all.


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## north star (Mar 28, 2016)

*@ ~ @ ~ @*

PC,

Most likely, the AHJ will determine what will be upgraded and

what will not.........If one is not sure, it is best to ask the AHJ

ahead of time.

*@ ~ @ ~ @*


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## ICE (May 12, 2016)

Pcinspector1 said:


> Clarification on topic:  electrical service upgrade
> 
> Does an electrical service upgrade include the Main Panel if it is being replaced or upgraded? If so does the residence get interconnected smokes, AFCI's and all the receptacles that require GFCI's get replaced?
> 
> If so that's brutal. we would't be getting the 60amp and 100amp Main Service Panels changed out here at all.



A service upgrade does include the main disconnect and attendant panel.  We do not require smoke/CO alarms.  CFCI receptacles are not required.  Arc fault comes in if the circuits are altered or extended. 

We do allow extending the circuits W/O arc fault if all of the additional conductor is in EMT, intermediate or rigid metal raceway on the exterior of the structure.  That was my idea so if you see a flaw with that please say something.

I have heard talk of the next code cycle exempting circuit extensions that are 5' or less.


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## chris kennedy (May 12, 2016)

Pcinspector1 said:


> Clarification on topic:  electrical service upgrade
> 
> Does an electrical service upgrade include the Main Panel if it is being replaced or upgraded? If so does the residence get interconnected smokes, AFCI's and all the receptacles that require GFCI's get replaced?
> 
> If so that's brutal. we would't be getting the 60amp and 100amp Main Service Panels changed out here at all.



Lets bring the pool and spa up to code also.


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## ICE (May 12, 2016)

chris kennedy said:


> Lets bring the pool and spa up to code also.


I always do.  Sometimes I get pushback but it is obvious that the pump motors have been changed out several times on a thirty year old pool and no permits were obtained.  I tell them that and the complaint floats away.


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## jar546 (May 12, 2016)

I must have really missed something big.  When was the code change that required a service inspection to inspect other components of a dwelling not related to the actual work.  Maybe I am behind too many code cycles (NEC 2008)


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## ICE (May 12, 2016)

When I see the new breakers I ask what happened to the GFCI breakers that were in the existing panel.  I am told that there were none.  I remind them that they removed the power to the pumps and lights....Shirley they want them to work again and meet code.  What else would we allow to be removed and replaced with an electrical code violation?

Arc fault requirements are addressed and it is spelled out when to require it.....GFCI on pools hasn't such clear instruction.  I don't check the whole property at a service upgrade but the dangerous stuff that I do see gets a correction notice.

If you see a pair of 60amp breakers labeled "sub-panel" do you ask to see it?  I am constantly surprised to hear a contractor tell me that he doesn't know where it is.  How can they energise a panel that they haven't seen?  And trust me on this, I find some dangerous sub-panels.


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## jar546 (May 12, 2016)

ICE said:


> When I see the new breakers I ask what happened to the GFCI breakers that were in the existing panel.  I am told that there were none.  I remind them that they removed the power to the pumps and lights....Shirley they want them to work again and meet code.  What else would we allow to be removed and replaced with an electrical code violation?



I see your angle.  I understand a bit better now.  I am all for safety and I am also for not requiring things that I have no basis to or can back up.  Still thinking about this one.


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## ICE (May 12, 2016)

I overlook as much as I can and still feel comfortable driving away.


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