# Nfpa 72 visual question



## cda (Sep 25, 2012)

Have not researched it yet, but will

If you have say a football size indoor practice field, do you still have to reach all portions of the field/ area with visual devices??

As if you were standing in the dead middle of the field would the visual have to hit you say,  looking at the plans????


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## north star (Sep 25, 2012)

*= * &*

From *NFPA 72 - National Fire Alarm and Signaling Code,*

*2010 Edition, Section 18.5.5: Location of Visible*

*Notification Appliances for Wide Area Signaling* = "Visible

notification appliances for wide area signaling shall be

installed in accordance with the AHJ, ...approved design

documents, and the manufacturer's instructions to achieve

the required performance."

Sounds like your indoor practice field will need to be

custom designed for the visual notification appliances.

*% # $*


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## FM William Burns (Sep 25, 2012)

I concur with NS and also add that enhanced schemes with rotating lights in addition to flashing strobes works well in indoor bubble venues.


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## Coug Dad (Sep 25, 2012)

These venues also tend to be used for fan festivals, craft shows, or other assembly uses that would also drive visual alarms (as well as more means of egress for the higher assembly loads)


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## cda (Sep 25, 2012)

north star said:
			
		

> *= * &*From *NFPA 72 - National Fire Alarm and Signaling Code,*
> 
> *2010 Edition, Section 18.5.5: Location of Visible*
> 
> ...


well that is clear as driller's mud.

especially when you look at 18.5.4.3.6 and A.18.5.4.3.6 and the commentary out of nfpa 72 2010


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## cda (Sep 25, 2012)

Section 18.5.5: Location of Visible

 Notification Appliances for Wide Area Signaling = "Visible

 notification appliances for wide area signaling shall be

 installed in accordance with the AHJ, ...approved design

 documents, and the manufacturer's instructions to achieve

 the required performance."

so if you go with this section: do you

1. just get some extra ones installed along the wall?

2. get the stobe lights or similar that are brighter???

3. how does the system meet ADA requriements??


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## cda (Sep 25, 2012)

I guess while on the subject, do they have to meet the audiblity level also,

or is there a similar exception??????


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## cda (Sep 26, 2012)

and the answer is


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## north star (Sep 26, 2012)

** * **

cda,

This is the point in the story where we hand you off

to a FPE [ i.e. - a Fire Protection Engineer, or a Fire

Plans Examiner ] who can design a system for you, or

maybe there is an FPE on here that can assist you.

I ain't no FPE or RDP!....Sorry!

Let me put a request up for you:

If there is an FPE on this Forum, will you please

address **cda's** questions.......Thanks!

FWIW, ...from the `06 IBC, Section 1108.2.6:

*1108.2.6 Assistive listening systems.*

"Each assembly area where audible communications

are integral to the use of the space shall have an

assistive listening system. 

*Exception:* Other than in courtrooms, an assistive

listening system is not required where there is no

audio amplification system.

** * **


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## north star (Sep 26, 2012)

*= = =*

...continuing on.

*From the NFPA 72, Section 18.4.3.2:"*Where approved by

the AHJ, or other governing codes or standards, the requirements

for audible signaling shall be permitted to be reduced or eliminated

when visible signaling is provided in accordance with Section 18.5."

*= = =*


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## AegisFPE (Sep 26, 2012)

Coug Dad said:
			
		

> These venues also tend to be used for fan festivals, craft shows, or other assembly uses that would also drive visual alarms (as well as more means of egress for the higher assembly loads)


I concur.NFPA 72 does allow for alternative methods and performance-based solutions.

But, neither can be provided without analysis of the specific conditions.

The good news is, a solution exists. The bad news is, it can't be solved on this board.


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## cda (Sep 26, 2012)

North Star thanks for the info

That is what I needed, just trying to load up with sections to back what we are telling them

We are the ahj reviewing the plans and it has been awhile since we have done a larger project


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## Frank (Sep 26, 2012)

Strobes across the ceiling

here is some related research in big box stores

http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/Research/VisualSignaling.pdf


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## cda (Sep 26, 2012)

Frank said:
			
		

> Strobes across the ceilinghere is some related research in big box stores
> 
> http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/Research/VisualSignaling.pdf


Thanks for the reading good stuff

Lucky in away this is a wide open football practice field

Just trying to get as close to code as possible  and feel good about it

And stay out if the news

One problem is it is a football practice field and ceiling levels are 50 And if you drop the a/v might be a problem of getting hit


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## JosephWilcox (Oct 25, 2012)

My company is in the process of installing a fire alarm in a similar type building.  It is an indoor facility and we just have 110Cd  Horn/Strobes on each side of the dome/field.  I believe we also did the designing of this with our Nicet IV guy here


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