# Home Based Business - Karate studio



## Buelligan (Dec 2, 2010)

Would a karate studio of 5-10 students or less, 5 days a week, have to meet all IBC requirements in the basement. I can find information specific to home day care, adult and childeren, but nothing about any other "home based" business. So my assumption would be that the structure would become a mixed use and the basement would have to be IBC compliant. One example of concern would be the door is a sliding glass, and the homeowner does not want to change it. Zoning has approved the use. Any opinions on the matter will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


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## Paul Sweet (Dec 2, 2010)

IBC 1008.1.2 allows sliding doors in private garages, offices, factory & storage areas with 10 or less occupants.  A karate studio would be a similar use.


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## Mule (Dec 2, 2010)

How about using the residential code for live/work unit. The 2009 IRC refers the live/work units to Section 419 of the 2009 IBC. Which specifies that the egress shall comply with Chapter 10 of the IBC.


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## Buelligan (Dec 2, 2010)

Thank you for the replies! But let me clarify my question. The sliding door was just an example of some changes that may be required. My actual question is " Would she have to apply for a commercial permit under the IBC or is there something in the IRC that allows this type of _*'home based business'*_ without any IBC compliance?" The only 'home based business' I see addresed in the IRC pertains to day care. So again I say she would have to apply, because of the change in use, for a commercial permit and comply with IBC, correct?


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## Mule (Dec 2, 2010)

That's what I was saying. You can have a "home business" under the 2009 IRC but as far as egress it must meet 2009 IBC regulations. The classification would change from a R3 to an R2.

Note: If the area is less than 10% of the structure it would still be classified as an R3. Also there is a maximum square footage for the live/work units. 50% of the residential area or 3000 square feet whichever comes first.

Code sections below!

R101.2 Scope. The provisions of the International Residential Code for One- and Two-family Dwellings shall apply to the construction, alteration, movement, enlargement, replacement, repair, equipment, use and occupancy, location, removal and demolition of detached one- and two-family dwellings and townhouses not more than three stories above grade plane in height with a separate means of egress and their accessory structures.

Exception: Live/work units complying with the requirements of Section 419 of the International Building Code shall be permitted to be built as one- and two-family dwellings or townhouses. Fire suppression required by Section 419.5 of the International Building Code when constructed under the International Residential Code for One- and Two-family Dwellings shall conform to Section 903.3.1.3 of the International Building Code.

SECTION 419 LIVE/WORK UNITS

2009 IBC 419.1 General. A live/work unit is a dwelling unit or sleeping unit in which a significant portion of the space includes a nonresidential use that is operated by the tenant and shall comply with Sections 419.1 through 419.8.

Exception: Dwelling or sleeping units that include an office that is less than 10 percent of the area of the dwelling unit shall not be classified as a live/work unit.

2009 IBC

419.1.1 Limitations. The following shall apply to all live/work areas:

1. The live/work unit is permitted to be a maximum of 3,000 square feet (279 m2);

2. The nonresidential area is permitted to be a maximum 50 percent of the area of each live/work unit;

3. The nonresidential area function shall be limited to the first or main floor only of the live/work unit; and

4. A maximum of five nonresidential workers or employees are allowed to occupy the nonresidential area at any one time.


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## Buelligan (Dec 2, 2010)

THANK YOU Mule!! That's exactly what I was looking for!! We just adopted the '09 codes and we have not had the time to see ALL the new changes. I really appreciate it ALOT!


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## FredK (Dec 2, 2010)

You doing all the ADA stuff also????


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## hlfireinspector (Dec 2, 2010)

Would a karate studio of 5-10 students or less, 5 days a week

If that is the same 5-10 students each day it would be called a day care around here. You may want to check with your health dept. as they have rulling on how many days and hours you are allowed to keep children and not be a licensed day care.


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## GHRoberts (Dec 2, 2010)

You need to check the allowed "home based businesses."

Here the zoning code allows "home occupations." The usual residential code applies. I don't think 5-10 students would be allowed.

You need to read the code to ensure that your "business" is allowed. I expect your residential code would apply.


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## brudgers (Dec 2, 2010)

To put this in perspective:

Do you make piano teachers meet the commercial codes?


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## Mule (Dec 3, 2010)

Buelligan said:
			
		

> THANK YOU Mule!! That's exactly what I was looking for!! We just adopted the '09 codes and we have not had the time to see ALL the new changes. I really appreciate it ALOT!


You are welcome!


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## 88twin (Dec 3, 2010)

Thank-you brudgers!!

the example given is a HOME based business(zoning issue) not a live/work unit.This board has discussed issue before.

In this city we regard this as a SFD with a home occupation. so....IRC not IBC.


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 3, 2010)

Here is what our states requires for a home buiness which serves the public.

(f) Business or commercial occupancies which are open to the public and

located in portions of a private residence are required to be accessible even if those

portions used for the business or commercial purposes are also used for residential

purposes. The accessibility requirements extend to and include an accessible route

from the sidewalk, through the doorway, through the hallway and other portions of

the home, such as restrooms, used by clients and customers of the business or
​commercial occupancy


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## Buelligan (Dec 3, 2010)

GHRoberts said:
			
		

> You need to check the allowed "home based businesses." Here the zoning code allows "home occupations." The usual residential code applies. I don't think 5-10 students would be allowed.
> 
> You need to read the code to ensure that your "business" is allowed. I expect your residential code would apply.


*Where* do you "check" for the "allowed home based busines"?

Our county has its own zoning ordinance, we DID NOT adopt the ICC Zoning code. They allow the use.

I feel based on the IRC exception to 101.2 would apply and seems to be the dirsction we are going to take.

Thanks for the input.


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## Buelligan (Dec 3, 2010)

88twin said:
			
		

> Thank-you brudgers!!the example given is a HOME based business(zoning issue) not a live/work unit.This board has discussed issue before.
> 
> In this city we regard this as a SFD with a home occupation. so....IRC not IBC.


I agree that brudgers example brings up a good point. But is there a difference between a one on one situation as opposed to a "class" of maybe 10? Also at what point does a home occupation become a "commercial venture"? I would think there has to be a some kind of threshold. The IRC makes no mention of "home based businesses" other than the above exception and day care, that I have found so far.

Why would it *not* be a live/work unit, just curious?

thanks!


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## Buelligan (Dec 3, 2010)

The issue for her now, if we use IBC 419, is that the basement is not a first/main floor as required by 419.1.1 #3

Also, thank you guys for the reply, this forum is an excellent resource!


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## Buelligan (Dec 3, 2010)

FredK said:
			
		

> You doing all the ADA stuff also????


For now, at this point, I'm gonna say yes.


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## cda (Dec 3, 2010)

Our county has its own zoning ordinance, we DID NOT adopt the ICC Zoning code. They allow the use

To bad they did not spell out any criteria to meet!!!!


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## GHRoberts (Dec 3, 2010)

Buelligan said:
			
		

> *Where* do you "check" for the "allowed home based busines"?Our county has its own zoning ordinance, we DID NOT adopt the ICC Zoning code. They allow the use.
> 
> I feel based on the IRC exception to 101.2 would apply and seems to be the dirsction we are going to take.
> 
> Thanks for the input.


My county has a zoning ordinance with a definition of "home occupation." Since your county has an ordinance and allows the usage you want, I suppose you only need to abide by the residential building code.


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## righter101 (Dec 3, 2010)

Our county has 2 zoning allowances for this type of activity...

"Home Occupation" and "Cottage Enterprise", with the Cottage Enterprise allowing for a larger, higher traffic buisness.

The commerical portion, or that which is open to the public would need to be accessible.


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## Mule (Dec 3, 2010)

Buelligan said:
			
		

> For now, at this point, I'm gonna say yes.


Not if you are using the IRC...


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## brudgers (Dec 3, 2010)

cda said:
			
		

> Our county has its own zoning ordinance, we DID NOT adopt the ICC Zoning code. They allow the useTo bad they did not spell out any criteria to meet!!!!


No it's a good thing.

The idea of regulating karate lessons at a private residence is pretty much BS.

The only reason it's an issue is that the person said "karate studio" rather than mentioning that they give private lessons.

To put it in perspective, IBC allows you to have five children all day or all night in your house.

Seems like a bigger issue than a few adults for an hour or two.


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## Yankee (Dec 4, 2010)

419.1 General. A live/work unit is a dwelling unit or sleeping unit in which a *significant portion of the space* includes a nonresidential use that is operated by the tenant and shall comply with Sections 419.1 through 419.8.

Bold by me. This would excude brudger's piano lesson lady.

A day care is a special use that is exempted from the nessesity of being treated like a commercial operation and permitted to be a residential use. A Karate studio or karate classes provided in a space that is a significant portion (but no more than half) of the residence would be a live/work unit.

There is some room there for a judgement call, but IMHO anything activity that is a "class" rather than individual instruction is likely to fall under live/work (ie Yoga class).


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 4, 2010)

> but IMHO anything activity that is a "class" rather than individual instruction is likely to fall under live/work (ie Yoga class).


So when my wife has 8 to 10 ladies over for a stamp class (making cards) once a month or a weekly bible study class or teaches a group to make a quilt it is a live/work because of the numbers.

If zoning allows it then leave this one  alone, don't make it a building issue


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## Yankee (Dec 4, 2010)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> If zoning allows it then leave this one  alone, don't make it a building issue


That pretty much worked for me in the past as we have a Home Occupation definition under our zoning, but codes would and should come into play when a certain benchmark is reached even within the home business and that must be what is being attempted under the new live work units.

Don't play the "it's no different than a quilting guild" card. The public coming to what they assume is a business (they are paying in a standard manner for whatever they are receiving) has the right to expect that there has been code review and a minimum standard of life safety.


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## Uncle Bob (Dec 4, 2010)

Homebased Business is more of a parking and traffic congestion problem than anything else; calling for zoning code requirements.

Uncle Bob


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## Yankee (Dec 4, 2010)

Our zoning allows for up to 1000sf of home business. There's a lot that can go on in 1000sf. We have a number of antique retail shops out in an attached "bahn", and an auto body shop, martial arts studio (less than 50 occ load) and there are plenty of building code issues that go along with each.

The typical hairdresser, piano teacher, accountant etc are treated under the IRC


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## brudgers (Dec 5, 2010)

Yankee said:
			
		

> There is some room there for a judgement call, but IMHO anything activity that is a "class" rather than individual instruction is likely to fall under live/work (ie Yoga class).


So the piano lady is busted when she gives a lesson to a brother and sister?


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## Yankee (Dec 5, 2010)

Did you read my post?


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## peach (Dec 5, 2010)

It's a zoning issue.. don't make it a building code issue (I hate the new live/work definition and scope).  Zoning will generally govern, anyway.


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## brudgers (Dec 5, 2010)

Yankee said:
			
		

> Did you read my post?


In fact, I quoted it.

Maybe you meant group instruction when you wrote "individual instruction?"


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## Yankee (Dec 5, 2010)

peach said:
			
		

> It's a zoning issue.. don't make it a building code issue (I hate the new live/work definition and scope).  Zoning will generally govern, anyway.


How would the issue be handled in a town who's zoning is silent on home businesses (or where there is no zoning)?


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## brudgers (Dec 6, 2010)

Yankee said:
			
		

> How would the issue be handled in a town who's zoning is silent on home businesses (or where there is no zoning)?


If the town is silent on home based businesses, the building official should remain so until such time  as an ordinance provides permission to speak.


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## GHRoberts (Dec 6, 2010)

brudgers said:
			
		

> If the town is silent on home based businesses, the building official should remain so until such time  as an ordinance provides permission to speak.


That is well said.


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## Yankee (Dec 6, 2010)

GHRoberts said:
			
		

> That is well said.


I believe you have that backwards. A business is a business wherever it is located UNLESS the BO has the policy of tying the building code/residential code to the zoning ordinance definition and permitting said business the requirement of ONLY meeting residential codes.


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## Coug Dad (Dec 6, 2010)

Interesting interpretation Yankee.  What is your code section basis for that opinion?


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## Yankee (Dec 6, 2010)

IBC Chapter 3


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## steveray (Dec 6, 2010)

(Add) 304.1.1 In-home Group B occupancies. Customary in-home business occupancies located within a single-family dwelling unit, that provide professional services and employ a maximum of one employee within the dwelling in addition to the residents of the dwelling unit, shall be classified as a Group R-3 occupancy or shall be permitted to comply with the requirements of the 2003 International Residential Code portion of the 2005 State Building Code.

This is a CT amendment to the 2003 IBC. It gives a little flexibility...for better or worse...


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## Yankee (Dec 6, 2010)

That amendment calls out "professional services", which is a good thing as those types of services don't typically cause the premises to need additional building code requirements over what would be found in the IRC (except accessibility issues).

Brudgers et all, what happens if you have a home retail shop permitted by zoning which is selling fireworks. No problem, let it go, it passes zoning? My point being, zoning regulations address impacts to the neighborhood such as traffic, noise, light etc. Zoning NEVER addresses what HAZARD a given business might have to the building occupants or structure.


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## GHRoberts (Dec 6, 2010)

Yankee said:
			
		

> My point being, zoning regulations address impacts to the neighborhood such as traffic, noise, light etc. Zoning NEVER addresses what HAZARD a given business might have to the building occupants or structure.


 In my location "home occupations" are allowed with the approval of some board. I suspect that is true in most places. If I were the AHJ, I would ask that board to seek my comments before approving any "home Occupation" usage.

I agree that "home occupations" or whatever pose a issue that the AHJ and zoning departments should have some policy on. I would prefer a policy that allows people to at least supplement their income. (Both my wife and I run "home occupations.")

---

Every 4th of July my neighbors set off a large number of fireworks. Some aerial. I wait for my house to start on fire. While I would prefer for my neighbors to sell fireworks rather than use them to burn my house down, the jurisdiction only has say in if they sell them. Funny how life works.


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## Coug Dad (Dec 6, 2010)

Yankee

Your example of fireworks would be covered in the adopted Fire Code.  I do not see what provision of the IBC applies provisions on a single family dwelling that might have incidental in home business use.  "Chapter 3" is pretty vague.  Can you be more specific?


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 6, 2010)

If you are going to apply the IBC literally across the board to a home business use then your office needs a 50 psf floor the retail 100 psf and where does it stop.


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## Yankee (Dec 6, 2010)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> If you are going to apply the IBC literally across the board to a home business use then your office needs a 50 psf floor the retail 100 psf and where does it stop.


It "stops" with judgement of the BO for each particular situation. If the hazard and intensity combined doesn't reach a level that seems in excess of the use of a SFD, then applying the Building Code would not be justifiable. My point being, just because the (planning board, ZBA, whichever) approves a home occupancy do not assume that there are no Building Code issues that should be addressed. GH Roberts: The Planning Board and/or the ZBA typically have the scope of authority that is given to them by the State regulations. They don't have the authority to review for codes, but they DO have the authority to add as a condition of approval that the home business meet/have approvals from the building/fire code department. Another example . . . ok , , , an applicant is growing and canning home made preserves and has approval of the planning board/zba and also the State Health Department. Is she good to go with her recently installed commercial kitchen equipment?

Nope, bet not . . . .


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## brudgers (Dec 6, 2010)

Yankee said:
			
		

> That amendment calls out "professional services", which is a good thing as those types of services don't typically cause the premises to need additional building code requirements over what would be found in the IRC (except accessibility issues). Brudgers et all, what happens if you have a home retail shop permitted by zoning which is selling fireworks. No problem, let it go, it passes zoning? My point being, zoning regulations address impacts to the neighborhood such as traffic, noise, light etc. Zoning NEVER addresses what HAZARD a given business might have to the building occupants or structure.


Fireworks are protected by the Second Amendment.


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## brudgers (Dec 6, 2010)

Yankee said:
			
		

> It "stops" with judgement of the BO for each particular situation.


Only in so far the BO has regulatory power.

Supreme executive authority derives from a mandate from the masses, not some farcical interpretation of the building code.


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## Yankee (Dec 7, 2010)

brudgers said:
			
		

> Fireworks are protected by the Second Amendment.


: ) rotflmao


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## Yankee (Dec 7, 2010)

brudgers said:
			
		

> Only in so far the BO has regulatory power.Supreme executive authority derives from a mandate from the masses, not some farcical interpretation of the building code.


Supreme executive authority derives from State Law which invests municipalities with limited police powers to enforce codes and to interpret codes and to define local zoning ordinaces.

You are right in that state law is made by those Who Have Been Chosen by the masses to represent thier wishes.


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