# Ghost ship trial



## cda (May 16, 2019)

some interesting things coming out of it.

I still do not understand in the USA, city officials are not prosecuted more, 


http://www.ktvu.com/news/ghost-ship-fire/ktvu-s-ghost-ship-trial-courtroom-blog#/


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## Mark K (May 16, 2019)

It is simple and is derived from English common law.  Basically when performing a governmental function the governmental official is immune from liability.  In some states, such as California, this concept has been codified into law.


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## cda (May 16, 2019)

Yea but if they do not take care of business, they can be sued or wind up in jail


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## Mark K (May 17, 2019)

cda

Point me to an appellate court ruling.  Is there something different in your state.  I speak to the situation in California.

If they don't take care of business they can be voted out of office or fired if not elected.  The courts can issue a writ of mandamus to compel them to enforce specific laws but compels action but does not create personal risk. 

They can be jailed if they break a law but not for not doing their job.  

Public employees can be sued only if they are doing something that is not a part of their job.  If a building official were to design a building for somebody they could be sued the same as an architect or engineer. but if reviewing a building in the normal course of their job there is no liability.


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## tmurray (May 27, 2019)

Mark K said:


> It is simple and is derived from English common law.  Basically when performing a governmental function the governmental official is immune from liability.  In some states, such as California, this concept has been codified into law.


It would be outdated English common law.
In the UK, _Anns v. Merton_ established that government entities can have liability where they have not properly exercised their duty of care. However, in _Murphy v Brentwood , _the courts backed away from this position, instead stating that the government function extends to life safety only and that they cannot have liability where the loss is purely economic. Some have criticized this reversal as an impact from the conservative political climate at the time. Many countries, including mine, continues to use a modified version of the Anns test.

So, currently in the UK, if a building inspector misses something and someone gets hurt, the building inspector and employer are exposed to liability.
In Canada, if someone gets hurt, or if the owner has to fix a critical code violation I missed, the building inspector and employer are exposed to liability.


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## conarb (May 27, 2019)

The historic common law relied upon the difference between misfeasance and malfeasance, id the employee missed something he and his AHJ were protected by sovereign immunity, if he did it intentionally he wasn't protected, but California has a "Tort Claims Law":



			
				Shouse Law said:
			
		

> *1.2 What claims are covered under the California Tort Claims Act?*
> Under the California Tort Claims Act, all claims for civil liability or "money damages" are covered, meaning that cases that are covered may include:
> 
> 
> ...





¹ https://www.shouselaw.com/personal-injury/tort-claims-act.html


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## Mark K (May 28, 2019)

In California Government Code Sections 815  through 823 provide government pretty much complete immunity when performing a governmental function.


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## conarb (May 28, 2019)

What you have to look at here is the fact that one of the defendants is represented by Tony Serra, Tony was a buddy during college days, we lived a few doors apart as freshmen, Tony works for free and always against the government which he despises, he's been to prison three times for refusal to pay taxes, he tried working for free but the government imputed the value of his services and assessed gift taxes, now he's made a deal with them wherein he charges a small fee that is distributed through the state bar to help indigent defendants. 



			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> Serra has taken a vow of poverty and is known for living a frugal lifestyle and driving a run-down car.[9] He does not have a cell phone, a bank account or a credit card.[5] In a disciplinary hearing before the State Bar of California, Serra stated, " "I took an informal vow of poverty. I vowed that I would never take profit from the practice of law, that I would not buy anything new, that I would recycle everything, that I would own no properties - no stocks or bonds, no images of prosperity. I still drive an old junk of a car. I still barely make the rent each month; I have accumulated nothing by way of savings, and I live from hand to mouth."¹



The trial is ongoing now but I speculate that he's going to turn it around an the "evil" firemen and city inspectors who didn't do their jobs even through they knew full well what was going on in there, 60 Minutes did a segment on Tony in the 70s where they called him the best attorney in the country, saying that he could bring any jury to tears.  In the 80s there was a movie made about one of his cases called True Believer, notice his _modus operandi:

_


			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> Dodd and Baron's investigation leads to a conspiracy among the district attorney, a police informant, and several police officers²



If Tony goes as expected, the defendants should get off and charges brought against the firemen and inspectors involved.  



¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Serra

² https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Believer_(1989_film)


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## e hilton (Jun 17, 2019)

cda said:


> I still do not understand in the USA, city officials are not prosecuted more



Im a little (pleasantly) surprised at this, i think its the right thing to do. No link, its easy to google multiple hits.  

(CNN)Former school resource officer Scot Peterson was widely criticized after he failed to confront a shooter who opened fire and killed 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School last year.

The Broward Sheriff's Office active shooter policy calls for deputies to interrupt a shooting and search for victims when there's a ceasefire.
More than a year after the massacre, the former Broward County sheriff's deputy now faces child neglect, culpable negligence and perjury charges.


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## linnrg (Sep 5, 2019)

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...rdict-one-man-acquitted-manslaughter-n1038126

sad that a jury did not get these two for their responsible contribution to the tragedy


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## conarb (Sep 5, 2019)

> Getz then claimed the responsibility for the fire belonged to a society "where we are in one of the richest areas in the nation," but people are still living in the street and starving.
> 
> "And these people like Derek take a warehouse and get people out of the gutter and put a roof over their head and don’t have the money to furnish it according to the laws of Oakland," the lawyer said. "And that’s why this happened."
> 
> ...



So I don't suppose that anybody is going to charge the real culprits here, the city officials, the fire department, the building department, or most of all the ICC that publishes a code making it so expensive to build that nobody builds anymore.


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## e hilton (Sep 6, 2019)

“Many of the families have also sued Almena and Harris, along with the owners of the building and others. The 31 cases, represented by a master complaint, say Oakland’s fire and building departments would have discovered the safety hazards in the near-10,000 square foot building, but failed to inspect it.“

Probably failed to inspect it because there was no permit pulled, or CofO application, or anything else that would have alerted the city.  And i suspect the city inspectors were fully occupied doing inspections on existing permits.  So do you want to double the number of inspectors?   Are you ok with inspectors proactively checking all buildings in town ... or would you resist on the grounds that would be something that only happens in communist countries?


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## ADAguy (Sep 10, 2019)

There was a time when Fire Depts "did" routinely inspect "existing" commercial buildings. What has happened? $$$$


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## tmurray (Sep 10, 2019)

We still do that here. They had to develop a frequency list based on hazard assessments so they weren't overwhelmed.

Apartments, schools, etc. are done every year (high risk).
Stores and personal service are usually done every 3 years (lower risk).


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## ADAguy (Sep 10, 2019)

Thank you, someone is still on the ball. You would think this case would wake up everyone.

Same way the big apt fire in England last year killed all those people, who was found liable in that one?


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## fatboy (Sep 10, 2019)

We operate the same as tmurray.


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## Mark K (Sep 11, 2019)

In California building departments and their employees have no liability for failure to enforce any law.


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## ADAguy (Sep 13, 2019)

Ultimately doesn't it still depend (on the specifics) or is it a get out of jail free?


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## cda (Sep 9, 2020)

*As Oakland Reaches Settlement in Ghost Ship Fire, Cities Beware: More Tragedies are Inevitable if You Sleep Through the Alarm*
Blog Post created by mhousewright






 on Sep 9, 2020

Like • Show 0 Likes0 
Comment • 0
Recently, utility company PG&E announced they had reached a settlement with victims’ families and survivors of the Ghost Ship fire for an undisclosed amount. According to the plaintiffs, PG&E “knew or should have known” that the electrical connection and usage at the warehouse-turned artist collective were haphazard and unsafe. This comes on the heels of a $32.7 million-dollar settlement reached last month with the city of Oakland alleging roughly the same thing—that the city was aware of unsafe conditions but failed to act. The 2016 fire was a loud wake up call for Oakland, exposing weaknesses in fire safety enforcement that contributed to the deaths of 36 people. However, given that these weaknesses live in other cities too, more tragedies are waiting if others sleep through the alarm.



Safety is created by an ecosystem made up of codes, skilled workers, regular enforcement, and public understanding. It is not a spontaneous condition. Most critically, it requires the government never takes its role in leading these efforts for granted.

In Oakland, that system broke down. Reportedly, city officials, even fire personnel, were aware of the warehouse turned artists’ residence and unpermitted concert space. Code violations, like exposed wires and a staircase created from wooden shipping pallets, were glaring. The precise cause of the city’s inertia may be an unknown but the fact that only six fire inspectors served a city of over 430,000 certainly contributed, as did shoddy reporting and chaotic filing systems. These factors left a system where nearly 80 percent of fire safety referrals citywide were left un-inspected in the six years before the fire.

Unfortunately, weak enforcement systems are spread well beyond Oakland. In-depth reporting in 2018 from the Mercury News East Bay Times discovered that Bay Area cities routinely missed mandated yearly inspections for hotels, motels, apartment buildings, and schools. Further away, in Las Vegas, a motel, which had gone uninspected for several years despite safety complaints, caught fire killing six people. And in Washington, DC, an alert from police to city inspectors flagging an unsafe, illicit residence slipped through the cracks. A fire months later killed two people, including a 9-year-old boy.

To avoid catastrophes big and small, cities should check the health of the ecosystem that protects their citizens. By conducting community risk assessments, safety officials better prioritize their inspection resources. Through integrating systems across multiple departments, building and fire officials can keep a better eye on the city’s built environment and be aware of buildings that are no longer compliant with permits and inspections from years ago. Critically, police, child protective services, and all other officials need formalized protocols for reporting unsafe conditions to fire authorities. This all must operate within a culture that understands acting will save lives.

Investment in safety is exponentially better than investment in lawsuits. The $32.7 million dollars to victims’ families and an injured survivor may be the best civil justice can offer, but it will never replace what was lost. Rather than wait for the next tragedy, engaging now in a full safety systems approach will help us get closer to ending these avoidable losses.

_ 
Meghan Housewright is the director of the National Fire Protection Association Fire & Life Safety Policy Institute. The Fire & Life Safety Policy Institute supports policymakers around the globe in protecting people and property from fire and other hazards with best practice recommendations and approaches to develop and sustain a strong fire prevention and protection system._

_Photo: A view from above Oakland, CA_


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## sergoodo (Sep 10, 2020)

cda said:


> some interesting things coming out of it.
> 
> I still do not understand in the USA, city officials are not prosecuted more,
> 
> ...



Initial thought(s) is the guys who built the deathtrap are criminally responsible (involuntary manslaughter?)and the city is responsible for civil liability, not the city official employees. Tatted up dudes are not entitled to a 'get outta jail free card' just because the city did not catch these guys breaking the law. 

On another note, YES, city officials in jail for mistake would make the world a better place. Think you can only hammer officials personally with a civil action.


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## ADAguy (Sep 11, 2020)

Thank you all for the updates, sad as they are.


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## Mark K (Sep 11, 2020)

My guess is that the Cities liability is not as a result of a failure to actively identify the problem but is the result of a failure to act when they became aware of the problem.


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## fatboy (Sep 11, 2020)

Mark K said:


> My guess is that the Cities liability is not as a result of a failure to actively identify the problem but is the result of a failure to act when they became aware of the problem.



Hated to "like" this in as much as it sucks that they did not act.


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## steveray (Sep 14, 2020)

Why I keep telling the powers to be that we need more people to head stuff like this off...I could spend all of my career chasing violations and not serving the customers that want my help....


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## cda (Sep 14, 2020)

Only one of three cities I have worked for ,,,    Did not do annual inspections,,,,   And it seemed like their fire rate was higher:::::



Mel Melcon | Los Angeles Times

The Los Angeles Fire Department has no record of ever inspecting a downtown building where an explosion severely burned 11 firefighters earlier this year, and the city's top fire official acknowledged that an inspection might have led to the seizure of some of the chemicals that fueled the blast.
The business address for Smoke Tokes, a Boyd Street retailer that stored large quantities of butane for sale before it burst into flames May 16, "was not found in the LAFD fire prevention database, and records of inspection were never completed," according to a fire department report made public earlier this year.
It is unclear if the fire department has ever inspected the building, which was constructed in 1999, according to city records. The fire prevention database is used to generate lists of addresses to which individual firehouses need to send personnel for inspections.


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## e hilton (Sep 14, 2020)

How did the new tenant get a CO without the FD knowing.  Sounds like an internal communication breakdown.


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## cda (Sep 14, 2020)

I think I see some of the problem


APPLICATION FOR  BUILDING PERMIT OR GRADING & CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY 





			https://www.ladbs.org/docs/default-source/forms/plan-check-2014/application-for-building-permit-or-grading-and-certificate-of-occupancy-pc-str-app01.pdf?sfvrsn=d6eceb53_31


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## ADAguy (Sep 22, 2020)

Application seems pretty clear, if it was ever submitted. Need to see the 99' application.


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## Sifu (Sep 22, 2020)

_*"Investment in safety is exponentially better than investment in lawsuits".  *_I'm gonna use that or some version of it.


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