# Occupant load calculation for young kids dance instruction studio



## RLM-Architect (Apr 16, 2013)

Situation:

Proposed renovation of existing building to an instructional dance studio (ballet and such)

7 sf too tight for maneuvering

15 sf too tight for maneuvering

Realistic allowance 50 sf per student seems more reasonable due to the characteristics of ballet (kicking, jumping etc)

Any of you buy in to this 50 sf per student?

Note exercise rooms allow 50 sf per occupant.

I know that is due to equipment in the rooms but then when using equipment, not much movement.

I had a karate school work this way before due to the same issues of space needed for instruction.

These classes are also limited to 20 students at a time which is all an instructor can control in a class of youngsters.


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## mark handler (Apr 16, 2013)

Dance studios Occupant load of 15 net square feet per person.

Similar uses to this would be aerobics rooms, basketball courts, gymnastics rooms

.

Exercise rooms that contain stationary bicycles, treadmills, stair steppers, free  weights, weight machines, sit-up and stretching stations are counted at 50 gross square feet per occupant


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## cda (Apr 16, 2013)

50. Sounds real good

Is exercise room defined somewhere???


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## mark handler (Apr 16, 2013)

And how many parents are there during recitals?


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## mark handler (Apr 16, 2013)

Why would you want less students?

Most business operators want more not less students?


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## fatboy (Apr 16, 2013)

I'm inclined, and have calculated before, in line with Mark, the kids are one thing, but the parents are another.


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## Fort (Apr 17, 2013)

mark handler said:
			
		

> Why would you want less students?Most business operators want more not less students?


So you don't exceed 50 occupants and need a second means of egress, with both doors swinging out, both accessible, and both with illuminated exit signs and emergency egress lighting.


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## mark handler (Apr 17, 2013)

Fort said:
			
		

> So you don't exceed 50 occupants and need a second means of egress, with both doors swinging out, both accessible, and both with illuminated exit signs and emergency egress lighting.


So how often do business operators tell customers "you need to wait outside, until someone else leaves"

The business owner needs to acquire a smaller space or add minimum life safety elements

Or the fire / building officials need to bend the code and risk injuries


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## kilitact (Apr 17, 2013)

RLM-Architect said:
			
		

> Situationroposed renovation of existing building to an instructional dance studio (ballet and such)
> 
> 7 sf too tight for maneuvering
> 
> ...


50 per is code compliant for this exercise class. If putting on recitals with spectators, seating etc. 15 or 7 per would be right.


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## Builder Bob (Apr 17, 2013)

Ahhhh the R,M, or D word that people don't like to use when discussing occupant loads for building designs........ (Recitals - for dance, Demonstrations/ Matches - for Karate)


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## globe trekker (Apr 18, 2013)

> Ahhhh the R,M, or D word that people don't like to use when discussing occupant loads for buildingdesigns........ (Recitals - for dance, Demonstrations/ Matches - for Karate)


How true this statement is! :-o

Before the C. of O. is issued (to the AHJ): Yessir, we promise not to overload the space!

After the C. of O. is issued (to the facility staff): How many more can we jam in here?

.


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## RLM-Architect (Apr 18, 2013)

When I was a Code official, I had a bit of a cynical streak in me too.

WHAT IF THEY . . . . ?

1. After more diligent questions on this dance school, the owner has a contract with a local theater (holds up to 1500) for her recitals.

2. After calculating occupant loads in all studios at 15 sf per, the load in the building is still less than 300.

3. CDA - I have never seen a "definition" of exercise room.  But NFPA 101 in Table 7.3.1.2 sets Exercise rooms WITH equipment at 50 and WITHOUT equipment at 15 sf per occupant.

4. But also notice that swimming pools are calculated at 50 sf per occupant based on the water surface.

Questions:  Is the pool load at 50 based on the need for more space per occupant due to the need for room to perform the various exercise that is typical for swimming?

5. If so, then would it not be logical to allow more than a 3' x 5' area for ballet doe to the space needed for such activity?

Nice discussion.  Food for thought.

The trickiest thing Jesus aver bestowed on us was the commandment to love our neighbor as ourselves.

So how do you love yourself?  Hope it is a lot, otherwise, your neighbor is in trouble!


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## mtlogcabin (Apr 18, 2013)

> Any of you buy in to this 50 sf per student?


Yes under 1004.1.1 Exception i have approved dance and martial arts studios at different OL.

I like to use 35 sq ft per person because on average a person with both arms extended and turning 360 degrees will occupy a 6 ft X 6 ft space. This is an acceptable numbers for the day to day operations, Plumbing fixtures HVAC load etc. However I will use 15 for exiting purposes


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## cda (Apr 18, 2013)

I guess it they only pirouette, 15 is a good number


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## globe trekker (Apr 18, 2013)

> Questions: Is the pool load at 50 based on the need for more space per occupant due to the needfor room to perform the various exercise that is typical for swimming? 5. If so, then would it not be logical
> 
> to allow more than a 3' x 5' area for ballet doe to the space needed for such activity?


IMO, the 50 sq. ft. per person occ. load in pools is, because of an increased perception of

fear in a medium that encloses the human body, whereas, a ballet area does not have the

same (perceived) level of fear associated with it, and with the (again, IMO) proximity of

people in water next to other people in the same water, ..that more area is needed, so

that the overcrowding of the water is lessened.

In the few ballet applications that I have seen, there was a row of students warming up

along a wall with their limbs/bodies stretching over the wall mounted, fixed bar. They

did not appear to have the 50 sq. ft. per person as is being lobbied. The warming up

IMO, is different than kicking/jumping/performing.

As somewhat of a code official, I DO have to think "worse case scenario" ( i.e - Section

102.1, 2006 IBC, "..most restrictive shall govern"). History is repleat with thousands of

events where overcrowding of space(s) has led to billions and billions of dollars in losses

(i.e. - property & life). Events that, some, could have been eliminated by proper occupant

loads, egress exits, signage, MOE lighting and on and on and on.

I am not slamming or disrespecting the RDP community, but in most cases, the RDP's

are not there to retrieve the dead or injured bodies of the aftermath.

Since you asked for input on your application, I respectfully offer the 15 sq. ft. per

person occ. loading and all of the requirements that go with it.

Regarding the statement of "loving thy neighbor as ourselves", I will respect the wishes

of this Forum's owner & benevolent benefactor and NOT comment on the spiritual or

political topics. If you want to PM me, please do!  

Also, ..please keep on posting on here.  I, for one, enjoy & respect your input!

This topic is a good one for discussion!   Let the banter continue!

.


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## cda (Apr 18, 2013)

So what about a gymnastics only room with one big mat??

15???  Hard to dance and tumble with only 15 sq ft


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## globe trekker (Apr 18, 2013)

> So what about a gymnastics only room with one big mat?? 15??? Hard to dance and tumble with only 15 sq ft


How many warm up; in the "one big gymanstics room", before dancing and tumbling, or should

we say, "how many CAN warm up in the one big gymnastics room? :devil

.


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## JPohling (Apr 18, 2013)

I am doing a large gymnastics facility and we are using 50sf/person


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## Architect1281 (Apr 18, 2013)

RLM I design them and approve them like this.

1 - USE GROUP B 304.1  - Training and skill development not within a school or academic program < been there for years

2A, TABLE 1004.1.1 Exercise rooms 50 gross 50 is very reasonable (Davinci figure arms out, feet spread, and 1 step any direction consumes 50 sf ant most any size human)

2B Office are 1/100sf

2C Parent waiting or watching Unconcentrated (tables and chairs)  net1/15


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