# Aw S??t, ..wonder what went wrong here?



## TheCommish (Jun 7, 2020)

Amazon subcontractor warehouse burns to the ground

 CNN story linked here

Cay the west coast  crew watch the news and  keep us informed of the investigation please


----------



## cda (Jun 7, 2020)

Love when a building with a fire sprinkler system burns to the ground,,,,

Maybe did not get an upgrade for the hazard????


Fire Chief Jim Topoleski told Fox 11 that in addition to determining the cause, the investigation will look into how such a large fire occurred in a modern building with the latest in fire protection systems.


“Something overwhelmed the sprinkler system immediately to allow the fire to rapidly grow," he said.




https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory...n-california-warehouse-linked-amazon-71096230


----------



## FM William Burns (Jun 8, 2020)

In situations such as these you work out to in such as system(s) certification and testing records verification and review, since there could have been up to 50 or more sprinkler system types in many combinations in this type of facility. Water supply, pump failures, obstructed/closed valves and supervision, interior loss prevention personnel human error (testing and maintenance) are all typical starting points.

In these super sized facilities it takes months to get the bugs and supervisory wiring gremlins in integrated fire alarm controls and fire sprinkler interlocking worked out due to the vast spanning of sub-control and communications and panels. Even while occupancy permissions have been granted. It also takes that long or longer for the facility’s loss prevention staff to understand the systems and be confident in their own inspection, maintenance operations and testing.

AHJ’s have to stay on top of it because in real life, the facilities are approved for occupancy and operation in phases. That’s just the way it is.

It is also not un-common to see a facility have hundreds of false alarms after systems are commissioned due to building situations and after occupancy equipment relocations affecting supervisory equipment and creating gremlins. It is critical for facility loss prevention teams and FD staffing to not become complacent and understand the nature of these mega structures and develop plans to address the situations.

I’m happy to read that everyone got out and there were no injuries since it is not uncommon for these facilities to have zoned evacuation and notifications.


----------



## steveray (Jun 8, 2020)

I walked into a 600,000 ft facility for a phased CO inspection and the panel was in trouble, asked the security guard and he had no clue why.....Things changed there real quick...


----------



## ADAguy (Jun 8, 2020)

Time will reveal the causes/failures, there should be some interesting lessons learned. We will keep you updated on this.


----------



## FM William Burns (Jun 8, 2020)

ADAguy said:


> Time will reveal the causes/failures, there should be some interesting lessons learned. We will keep you updated on this.



Thanks, ADA! 

I do miss (some) of the investigation work but not the 2 am jobs when its -10 and winds at 25 mph. There will be a lot of folks involved in this one and hopefully there is a good lead and they can all play in the sandbox together and be productive.


----------



## cda (Jun 8, 2020)

Is someone saying the big A has cameras that watch their people?


----------



## Insurance Engineer (Jun 9, 2020)

Smart arsonist....close valve start fire not a good combination. Will be interesting if they tell us but I wonder if the had PIV to the pump house or risers with only a lock to prevent the valve from being closed.


----------



## Insurance Engineer (Jun 9, 2020)

FYI....PIV = Post Indicator Valve .....usually located on the outside of the building away from the building.


----------



## TheCommish (Jun 9, 2020)

FDC= fire department connection down stream of all valves in a wet system, should always be supplied with water to over come closed  valves


----------



## cda (Jun 9, 2020)

TheCommish said:


> FDC= fire department connection down stream of all valves in a wet system, should always be supplied with water to over come closed  valves



Yes and No

Depends on set up

Plus fdc is not designed to be the main supply to a system


----------



## e hilton (Jun 9, 2020)

Even with all of the destruction, it should be easy to determine if any valves had been closed.  It won’t be like an airplane wreck where you are looking for small clues, valves for tgis size building will be easy to find and easy to see what position they were in.


----------



## cda (Jun 9, 2020)

e hilton said:


> Even with all of the destruction, it should be easy to determine if any valves had been closed.  It won’t be like an airplane wreck where you are looking for small clues, valves for tgis size building will be easy to find and easy to see what position they were in.




Maybe

Depends on which way the tilt wall fell.

I think all the cameras, and employees will be able to see the progression


----------



## mtlogcabin (Jun 9, 2020)

Amazon said the facility was used to ship large products *such as mattresses *

My guess system was not upgraded for the foam mattresses of today


----------



## FM William Burns (Jun 9, 2020)

Initially I didn’t realize it was only 600,000 s.f. I was thinking it was >1 mil. good news the investigation is more manageable.


----------



## ADAguy (Jun 9, 2020)

Products of combustion vs ignition source ='s speed of consumption. Here in lies the question, without sprinklers how and why could it have moved so fast? Spontaneous combustion?


----------



## cda (Jun 9, 2020)

Fires don’t move fast, except wildland

Fires doubles about every minute 

Possibly rack storage of bad stuff, that likes to burn.


----------



## e hilton (Jun 10, 2020)

I would say that doubling every minute is moving fast.


----------



## steveray (Jun 10, 2020)

Depends on what you mean by moving fast...I think the Ballys Casino fire it took off across the carpet at 20FPS....Faster than I want to run from fire....


The fire spread to the lobby, fed by wallpaper, PVC piping, glue, and plastic mirrors, racing through the casino floor at a speed of 15–19 ft/s (4.6–5.8 m/s; 10–13 mph; 16–21 km/h) until a massive fireball blew out the main entrance along The Strip. From the time the fire was noticed, it took six minutes for the entire building to be fully engulfed.[6] It spread across the areas of the casino in which no fire sprinklers were installed. Eighteen people died in the casino level of the hotel.[7]


----------

