# Occupany Load Calcs for a Mosque (A-3)



## That Inspector Guy (Mar 8, 2012)

Need to figure out occupancy load for an existing "Mosque." The local Imam of this particular faith rents a 2-room storefront, separated by a small hallway. One room is 13x21 the other is 17x21. Each room has it's own compliant means of egress. They have little to no furniture (no fixed seating.)

Knowing that they use prayer rugs on the floor to do their prayers, and I imagine they probably sit on them while the Imam does the services.....That being said, using table 1004.1.1 2009 IBC to do the calcs, do I use:

-Assembly without fixed seats

  -Standing space (5 net, which equals 54 persons in the 13x21 and 71 persons in the 17x21)

**OR**

  -Unconcentrated/tables and chairs (15 net= 18 persons and 23 persons...) Just because there are no specifics in the code (unless if I am blind or dumb and cannot find it) that covers "seating on floor on prayer rugs."  ??????????

Or is there another code section I should use alltogether?????


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## steveray (Mar 8, 2012)

Use the 5....they will......


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 8, 2012)

> Each room has it's own compliant means of egress.


If you mean each space has two exits then use the 5 and give them the largest OL you can. If each space does not have 2 exits then you will have to limit the OL to 49 in each room.


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## That Inspector Guy (Mar 8, 2012)

Is there any wording in the IFC or the IBC that gives gives the AHJ authority to adjust the occupant load for unique or unusual circumstances?


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## That Inspector Guy (Mar 8, 2012)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> If you mean each space has two exits then use the 5 and give them the largest OL you can. If each space does not have 2 exits then you will have to limit the OL to 49 in each room.


Each room has one compliant means of egress to the exterior plus the hallway to the opposite room.


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Mar 8, 2012)

That Inspector Guy said:
			
		

> Is there any wording in the IFC or the IBC that gives gives the AHJ authority to adjust the occupant load for unique or unusual circumstances?


1004.2 Increased Occupant Load.  The occupant load permitted in any building, or portion thereof, is permitted to be increased from that number established for the occupancies in Table 1004.1.1 provided that all other requirements of the code are also met  based on such modified number and the occupant load does not exceed one occupant per 7 square feet  of occupiable floor space.  Where required by the building official, an approved aisle, seating or fixed equipment diagram substantiating any increase in occupant load shall be submitted.  Where required by the building official, such diagram shall be posted.

I don't know that you do not qualify for the standing space of 5 net per occupant for the specific areas of worship without having to do an increase.  13x21 area yields a >49 occupant load and would require two MOEs from that area/room.


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## gbhammer (Mar 8, 2012)

It may get packed in there
	

		
			
		

		
	

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## cda (Mar 8, 2012)

Have done a couple and would go with 5


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## Inspector 102 (Mar 8, 2012)

7 SF per person since they are not standing. 39 persons in small room, 51 persons in larger room. At 51 people, 2 MOE would be required. travel distance would also come into consideration.


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## FM William Burns (Mar 8, 2012)

I'm with I-102 and the 1/7 but I'm a LSC guy and that's what it requires. The body takes up more space in a seated or kneeling position regardless of being in a chair or crossed legs on the floor.....just saying.


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 8, 2012)

1001.1 General.

Buildings or portions thereof shall be provided with a means of egress system as required by this chapter. The provisions of this chapter shall control the design, construction and arrangement of means of egress components required to provide an approved means of egress from structures and portions thereof.

The OL is used to approve the means of egress. If it works with 5 per sq ft then you can use it.

I suggest you kneel on the floor and touch your head to the ground and the average person will require an area of about 24" X 30" or 5 sq ft. It is not unrealistic for the use and easily documented for how you arrived at the number you used.

It is not a place where alchohol or poor lighting will negatively impact the occupants


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## pwood (Mar 8, 2012)

i have seen chest pounding and yelling during one of the ceremonies! i'd go with 7 sq. ft.!


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 8, 2012)

In the size of the rooms posted 5 will require 2 exits for each room 7 will not for the smaller. Which is safer? They will use the room as they need to so require it to be designed to the worst case (safest) possible.


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## gbhammer (Mar 8, 2012)

pwood said:
			
		

> i have seen chest pounding and yelling during one of the ceremonies! i'd go with 7 sq. ft.!


I dont think 7 is out of line
	

		
			
		

		
	

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## gbhammer (Mar 8, 2012)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> In the size of the rooms posted 5 will require 2 exits for each room 7 will not for the smaller. Which is safer? They will use the room as they need to so require it to be designed to the worst case (safest) possible.


I have seen pics where people are praying outside the door if there is not room inside


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Mar 8, 2012)

I agree with mt ...5-6SF is a fairly accurate account of a person in kneeling or prostrate prayer position.  It sounds like using 5sf versus 7 sf will have an effect on the smaller rooms MOE.


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## Examiner (Mar 8, 2012)

The post mentioned renting a 2 room storefront.  Sounds like a strip center (Mercantile).  Is a change of Occupancy for part of the buildng at hand now.  Just asking.


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## That Inspector Guy (Mar 8, 2012)

Examiner said:
			
		

> The post mentioned renting a 2 room storefront.  Sounds like a strip center (Mercantile).  Is a change of Occupancy for part of the buildng at hand now.  Just asking.


Place has been there for a while, prior to the current BCO. Yes, at that time it went from a B use to the A use and all requirements of a change of use should have been done. AHJ does not want to "burden" them with the required changes but due to some perceived overcrowding issues, does want to post O/L's.


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## Frank (Mar 8, 2012)

We take kneeling space to be the same as non fixed chairs and use 7 sq ft per person

Standard prayer rug is around 28x48 inches or about 9 sq ft so using 7 sq is adequate.

We also allow them to use separate numbers for men and women for toilet fixture counts based on the separate men's and women's worship areas.

Women's area is typically alot smaller than men's.


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## Codegeek (Mar 9, 2012)

One of my co-workers is Muslim.  I asked him about the occupant load calcs.  He said that there will be prayer lines marked on the floor on which people will sit for the first part of the service.  As they move through the service and change from sitting to standing, more people will be let into the mosque to stand on the prayer lines.  The service will continue with them all being on their knees at some point.  He indicated using 7 square feet per person would be realistic, especially when it comes to the time for them being on their knees.


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## Big Mac (Mar 14, 2012)

Just posting an occupant load is an excercise in futility and means nothing since people to not pay attention to it, or evewn understand the significance of it.  Figure the highest likely occupant load and go from there.  If they need to add exits, so be it.  In any case it appears that panic hardware, exit signs, means of egress lighting and emergency lighting are required.  The code does permit exiting through another room if the separation of exits is adequate.  However, if both rooms have an occupant load in excess of 50 and if one of the menas of egress from each room is through the other, then two doors connecting the rooms is required and one must swing in each direction.


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## gbhammer (Mar 14, 2012)

Big Mac said:
			
		

> The code does permit exiting through another room if the separation of exits is adequate.  However, if both rooms have an occupant load in excess of 50 and if one of the menas of egress from each room is through the other, then two doors connecting the rooms is required and one must swing in each direction.


Bic Mac how about some code references.


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## JBI (Mar 15, 2012)

For the most part, the Code uses the word 'seats' with few direct references to 'chairs'. I believe 7 sf\person is reasonable for the 'seated' persons. If there is routinely standing persons in the space then egress must be designed for most restrictive / worst case scenario. Posting is only required for occupant loads over 49, 49 and less is not an 'assembly' occupancy by definition.

The IBC does not provide a mechanism for reducing the OL below design occupant load, but does allow for an increase. The EBC however, may provide a mechanism for limiting OL based on existing conditions, but that may only apply to 'historic' buildings. How old is the subject building?


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## JBI (Mar 15, 2012)

And you should be using 'net' floor area, not gross. Actual useable floor space only, subtract out fixed elements and spaces where congregants do not sit, kneel or stand.


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## Big Mac (Mar 15, 2012)

In an effort to ease gb's mind, here is an additional response from my earlier post

Just posting an occupant load is an excercise in futility and means nothing since people do not pay attention to it, or even understand the significance of it. - No code section to cite - this is just an observation from many years of experienc.

Figure the highest likely occupant load and go from there.  Section 1004.1.1.

If they need to add exits, so be it.  Number of exits is based primarily on travel distance and number of occupants in a space.  Section 1014.3 and Tables 1015.1, 1021.1 and 1021.2.

Two exits are required when the occupant load exceeds 49.  See Tables referenced above.

Panic hardware is required if the occupant load exceeds 49.  Section 1008.1.10.

Exit signs are reqquired when two or more exits are required.  Section 1011.1.

Means of egress lighting is required.  Sections 1006.1 and 1006.2.

If the occupant load is such that two means of egreess are required, emergency lighting is required.  Section 1006.3 and 1006.4.

The code does permit exiting through another room.  Section 1014.2.

if the separation of exits is adequate.  When two exits are required, they must be separated in accordance with Section 1015.2.1.  a distance equal to 1/2 the overall diagonal distance if no sprinkler system, 1/3 the overall diagonal distance permitted if the building has a sprinkler system.

If both rooms have an occupant load in excess of 49 and if one of the two means of egress from each room is through the other, then two doors connecting the rooms is required and one must swing in each direction.  The citations have already been made except for the fact that when serving an occupant load of 49 or more, doors are required to swing in the direction of exit travel.  Section 1008.1.2.

Therefore, if the second required exit for each space is through the other, the exit door from each space still needs to qualify as a code compliant exit door as noted above satisfying the requirements for door swing, panic hardware, exit signs, etc.  The only way for this to happen is with two doors, one serving as a code compliant exit door from each space.  This configuration often takes place in a corridor situation where the occupant loads on each side are greater than 49.

gb - I sincerely hope this helps to relive your anxiety that these statements were not based on code.


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## cda (Mar 15, 2012)

JBI said:
			
		

> For the most part, the Code uses the word 'seats' with few direct references to 'chairs'. I believe 7 sf\person is reasonable for the 'seated' persons. If there is routinely standing persons in the space then egress must be designed for most restrictive / worst case scenario. Posting is only required for occupant loads over 49, 49 and less is not an 'assembly' occupancy by definition. The IBC does not provide a mechanism for reducing the OL below design occupant load, but does allow for an increase. The EBC however, may provide a mechanism for limiting OL based on existing conditions, but that may only apply to 'historic' buildings. How old is the subject building?


how about 1004.1.1 "exception"  2009 edition ibc


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## gbhammer (Mar 15, 2012)

Big Mac said:
			
		

> In an effort to ease gb's mind, here is an additional response from my earlier postgb - I sincerely hope this helps to relive your anxiety that these statements were not based on code.


Sorry Bic Mac, I never doubted you.

 I had just allowed the very same thing not two days earlier. I just was hoping you would lay out the code chain for us.    :cheers

Thanks for that by the way.


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