# The problem with code development???



## cda (Oct 19, 2019)

“”””Groupthink leads to bad decisions because it encourages members of the group to ignore possible problems with the group’s decisions and discount the opinions of outsiders. When members of the group are too comfortable with each other, similar in background, or become insulated from outside influences and information, groupthink can be a big problem. It influences decisions most when there are no clear rules for decision making.””


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## conarb (Oct 19, 2019)

Agreed, plus the last people in the world allowed to write codes are building inspectors, that's like having cops write speeding laws.


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## mark handler (Oct 21, 2019)

https://philmckinney.com/if-you-wan...h-the-herd-groupthink-leads-to-bad-decisions/


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## mark handler (Oct 21, 2019)

cda said:


> “”””Groupthink leads to bad decisions because it encourages members of the group to ignore possible problems with the group’s decisions and discount the opinions of outsiders. When members of the group are too comfortable with each other, similar in background, or become insulated from outside influences and information, groupthink can be a big problem. It influences decisions most when there are no clear rules for decision making.””


If you think the code writing process is in a bubble you are mistaken
Anyone can submit a code modification. They are all reviewed.
After the ICC or IAPMO committee hearings and approvals, it gets reviewed by many states and more modifications are made before adoption in the state. (that's why we have so many State codes). Then there is local adoptions and modifications. At each review and adoption, modifications are made.
You cannot say it is a small group of engineers or inspectors making all the codes. That is just Wrong.

Ron Geren, an active member on this forum, has a paper on some of this
http://www.specsandcodes.com/articl...o. 5 - How Can you Change a Building Code.pdf


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## cda (Oct 21, 2019)

Before I retire I will submit

Trying to decide between

Definition of 

Main Door

Main Exit

Main Exterior Exit


Or

Not allowed the words such as Emergency, Fire, Emergency Only, or similar to be part of an Exit sign or attached to or near an exit door.


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## mark handler (Oct 21, 2019)

cda said:


> Before I retire I will submit
> Trying to decide between
> Definition of
> Main Door
> ...



Best of luck


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## cda (Oct 21, 2019)

mark handler said:


> Best of luck




Is that a maybe vote??


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## mark handler (Oct 21, 2019)

cda said:


> Is that a maybe vote??


Best of luck 
Let's see the proposal


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## cda (Oct 21, 2019)

Ok will give it a shot

I don’t write code. 

Mine is simple do it or Hammarabbi style


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## tmurray (Oct 21, 2019)

What's the alternative?


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## cda (Oct 21, 2019)

So when is it time to submit for the next cycle


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## fatboy (Oct 22, 2019)

For IBC, two yeas from now. Don't bitch about until you get involved and try to do something about it. I sit on a national Committee. I am active in the Colorado Chapter code development Committee. (which there are 45 members representing over the span of the PCH's) I attend the Public Comment hearings, (where I am at right now), and I vote on cdpAccess to finish it out. Unless you participate in the process, don't piss and moan about the results.............. nuff said


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## tmurray (Oct 22, 2019)

fatboy said:


> For IBC, two yeas from now. Don't bitch about until you get involved and try to do something about it. I sit on a national Committee. I am active in the Colorado Chapter code development Committee. (which there are 45 members representing over the span of the PCH's) I attend the Public Comment hearings, (where I am at right now), and I vote on cdpAccess to finish it out. Unless you participate in the process, don't piss and moan about the results.............. nuff said


Same as those who complain about who gets elected, but can't be bothered to vote.


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## mark handler (Oct 22, 2019)

Start writing NOW


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## ICE (Oct 22, 2019)

When I became an inspector the building code required glazing within five feet of a pool deck to be safety glazing.  That's not a complicated concept.  There was no definition of a pool deck.  I figured that the deck starts at the pool and ends where it stops.  Sometimes it was a 3' ribbon and sometimes it went all the way to the house.  The five foot zone added complexity to the simple concept.  I wrote the correction, and apparently only I wrote the correction.  All of the sudden pool contractors were forced to replace windows.  An uproar ensued.  I received a letter from the BO that the code will change at the next cycle to state five feet from the water's edge.I was ordered to cease writing the correction.....the code language did change.

I tell you this so that you will understand that corrections can make things happen.  I spent time working with the standard making panel for UL2703 as the result of corrections I wrote.  Changes were made because of corrections.  Yes committees are out there if you have the time but that's a slow way to go.  I prefer immediate action.

So CDA, if you have a problem with signage.....write a correction.....and stand back.  You are the best arbiter of code decisions.....you are the witness to how it performs.....I would ask you first.....not hand it to you and expect silent results.


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## cda (Oct 22, 2019)

When will proposals for the next code cycle be accepted


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## tmurray (Oct 23, 2019)

ICE said:


> When I became an inspector the building code required glazing within five feet of a pool deck to be safety glazing.  That's not a complicated concept.  There was no definition of a pool deck.  I figured that the deck starts at the pool and ends where it stops.  Sometimes it was a 3' ribbon and sometimes it went all the way to the house.  The five foot zone added complexity to the simple concept.  I wrote the correction, and apparently only I wrote the correction.  All of the sudden pool contractors were forced to replace windows.  An uproar ensued.  I received a letter from the BO that the code will change at the next cycle to state five feet from the water's edge.I was ordered to cease writing the correction.....the code language did change.
> 
> I tell you this so that you will understand that corrections can make things happen.  I spent time working with the standard making panel for UL2703 as the result of corrections I wrote.  Changes were made because of corrections.  Yes committees are out there if you have the time but that's a slow way to go.  I prefer immediate action.
> 
> So CDA, if you have a problem with signage.....write a correction.....and stand back.  You are the best arbiter of code decisions.....you are the witness to how it performs.....I would ask you first.....not hand it to you and expect silent results.



The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly. - Abraham Lincoln


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## Rick18071 (Oct 23, 2019)

That's how they got rid of the blue laws in PA. People kept reporting to police that a store was open on Sunday.


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## HForester (Nov 2, 2019)

cda said:


> When will proposals for the next code cycle be accepted



In the Fall of 2020, folks can begin working in cdpACESS to generate I-Code proposals. The deadline to be completed with proposals is the first week of January 2021. These proposals will develop the 2024 I-Codes.


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## cda (Nov 2, 2019)

HForester said:


> In the Fall of 2020, folks can begin working in cdpACESS to generate I-Code proposals. The deadline to be completed with proposals is the first week of January 2021. These proposals will develop the 2024 I-Codes.




Thanks

Might as well try one


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