# BYOB Use Group?



## snowroski (Nov 14, 2016)

Under the 2009 IBC, what use group would you classify a BYOB painting studio?  Essentially, this use is  a place where people come together and drink wine and learn how to paint.  It is often used for bachelorette parties and the like.


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## cda (Nov 14, 2016)

B
What is the sq ft??


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## snowroski (Nov 14, 2016)

~2600
I thought B, but it seems, because of the alcohol consumption, that it may be an A.


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## Keystone (Nov 14, 2016)

I would also lean toward "A".


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## Keystone (Nov 14, 2016)

http://artandseek.org/2016/08/08/ci...community-meet-tuesday-to-discuss-shut-downs/


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## mark handler (Nov 14, 2016)

What are you classifying theOL as?
Less than 50? B
More than 50? A


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## cda (Nov 14, 2016)

snowroski said:


> ~2600
> I thought B, but it seems, because of the alcohol consumption, that it may be an A.




The lady that cuts my hair serves alcohol,

She is not a place of assembly,

Or like someone wanted to call a movie theater that serves full meals, while you watch the movie, a Restaurant


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## cda (Nov 14, 2016)

Is alcohol the major part of the business 

Or can they paint Conarb without the use of alcohol ??? 

Not everyone drinks


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## mark handler (Nov 14, 2016)

cda said:


> ...Not everyone drinks"


James Crumley
“Son, never trust a man who doesn’t drink


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## cda (Nov 14, 2016)

Son, never trust a man who doesn't drink because he's probably a self-righteous sort, a man who thinks he knows right from wrong all the time. Some of them are good men, but in the name of goodness, they cause most of the suffering in the world. They're the judges, the meddlers. And, son, never trust a man who drinks but refuses to get drunk. They're usually afraid of something deep down inside, either that they're a coward or a fool or mean and violent. You can't trust a man who's afraid of himself. But sometimes, son, you can trust a man who occasionally kneels before a toilet. The chances are that he is learning something about humility and his natural human foolishness, about how to survive himself. It's damned hard for a man to take himself too seriously when he's heaving his guts into a dirty toilet bowl.


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## mark handler (Nov 15, 2016)

cda said:


> Son, never trust a man who doesn't drink because he's probably a self-righteous sort, a man who thinks he knows right from wrong all the time. Some of them are good men, but in the name of goodness, they cause most of the suffering in the world. They're the judges, the meddlers. And, son, never trust a man who drinks but refuses to get drunk. They're usually afraid of something deep down inside, either that they're a coward or a fool or mean and violent. You can't trust a man who's afraid of himself. But sometimes, son, you can trust a man who occasionally kneels before a toilet. The chances are that he is learning something about humility and his natural human foolishness, about how to survive himself. It's damned hard for a man to take himself too seriously when he's heaving his guts into a dirty toilet bowl.


*Good thing I drink....*


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## steveray (Nov 15, 2016)

mark handler said:


> *Good thing I drink....*



More and more every day I go to work.....

    I agree with Mark on multiple things, <50 B but >50 A3 I would say like a gallery....Alcohol is not the focus, so I would not say A2 (even though it may be essential to get people in the door from what I have seen)


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## Examiner (Nov 15, 2016)

Any place used for recreation, assembly etc that is 750-sf or greater would be assembly.  750-sf divided by 15-sf/person = 50-people.  And that is just using table and chairs for assembly.  Since the use of the space is "intended for food and/or drink consumption..." it would be an A-2.


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## Examiner (Nov 15, 2016)

Well maybe an A-3 since they do not sell the drink.  However, some parties may have a cash bar.


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## cda (Nov 15, 2016)

What is the major use?

How to paint?

Does not seem like an "A"


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## Examiner (Nov 15, 2016)

The description presented is a meeting place to learn about painting, painting is a means of recreation and then the space is for socializing and parties.  Those are assembly functions.  If it is a studio and gallery you would still have assembly.  The occasional use for parties trumps the lesser uses as I see it.


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## cda (Nov 15, 2016)

*Business Group B.*
Business Group B occupancy includes, among others, the use of a building or structure, or a portion thereof, for office, professional or service-type transactions, including storage of records and accounts. Business occupancies shall include, but not be limited to, the following: 

Educational occupancies for students above the 12th grade 


Professional services (architects, attorneys, dentists, physicians, engineers, etc.) 


Training and skill development not in a school or academic program (this shall include, but not be limited to, tutoring centers, martial arts studios, gymnastics and similar uses regardless of the ages served, and where not classified as a Group A occupancy). 


The alcohol use is a by product and would not be there every time.

It more than likely would be set up as a art training studio.


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## snowroski (Nov 15, 2016)

Based on the zoning submittals, alcohol is a major component of the business model; they are just side-stepping the oppressive PA Liquor laws and enforcement by not selling the drinks.


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## BayPointArchitect (Nov 16, 2016)

A3 would be my vote because A2 would otherwise involve the sale of food and/or beverages.  But the consumption of alcohol that is brought into the space by the consumer becomes irrelevant to me.


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## Rick18071 (Nov 16, 2016)

If they served wine (communion) in a church (A-3) would you make them change to a A-2?
If they bring beer to their office (B with over 50 occupants) every day for lunch would you make them change it to A-2?
I don't think so.


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## cda (Nov 16, 2016)

Rick18071 said:


> If they served wine (communion) in a church (A-3) would you make them change to a A-2?
> If they bring beer to their office (B with over 50 occupants) every day for lunch would you make them change it to A-2?
> I don't think so.



You go there!!!


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## ICE (Nov 16, 2016)

The space hosts "bachelorette parties and the like".  That sounds open ended.


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## Pcinspector1 (Nov 17, 2016)

I once bowled in a bowling league, (172+avg, but who cares) just because a dude in the locker room has a fifth of JW in his locker does't make it an A-2. 

B< 50 >A,

Burp...


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## Pcinspector1 (Nov 17, 2016)

cda said:


> Is alcohol the major part of the business
> 
> Or can they paint Conarb without the use of alcohol ???
> 
> Not everyone drinks



I kinda picture conarb in the "Thinking Man pose!"


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## ADAguy (Nov 19, 2016)

Cdavis@vcaengineers.com "gets it", it is a classroom. The use of alcohol just as easily could be grass or other mind expanders. It is a risk management/insurance issue. Wine at communion is a religious experience and not usually subject to government intervention.


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## cda (Nov 19, 2016)

So,

If this place was in Colorado and they were serving herbs, does that make it an A-2?

Or is a code change coming??


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## Rick18071 (Nov 21, 2016)

Don't see anything in the IBC about religious experience. But I did have one on LSD years ago.


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## fatboy (Nov 22, 2016)

cda said:


> So,
> 
> If this place was in Colorado and they were serving herbs, does that make it an A-2?
> 
> Or is a code change coming??



Interestingly though, we just got clarification that although MJ can be used inside establishments, it cannot be used in a place with a liquor license. It would be allowed in the "art class", as long as there was not a liquor license involved.


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## fatboy (Nov 22, 2016)

fatboy said:


> Interestingly though, we just got clarification that although MJ can be used inside establishments, it cannot be used in a place with a liquor license. It would be allowed in the "art class", as long as there was not a liquor license involved.



I guess that still would be a BYOB........

"Bring Your Own Bong"


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## JBI (Nov 23, 2016)

Training and skill development, Group B.
The 2015 IBC clears this up a bit more.


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## cda (Nov 23, 2016)

JBI said:


> Training and skill development, Group B.
> The 2015 IBC clears this up a bit more.




Yea, I got one electoral vote !!!

Now can I get a pardon??


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