# Ladder Liability



## fatboy (Jul 23, 2012)

I just took a call from our Risk Manager a little bit ago. His question to me was, and this coming from a citizen........When we do a roofing inspection, who provides the ladder, and who is liable? I explained that, as required by both the building and residential code;

*Inspection requests.* It shall be the duty of the holder of the building _permit_ or their duly authorized agent to notify the _building official_ when work is ready for inspection. *It shall be the duty of the permit holder to provide access to and means for inspections of such work* that are required by this code.

We prefer the party requesting the inspection provide the ladder, but that in the case they do not, we have ladders that allows access to single story structures. Multi-story, we hold out for them to provide access.

His next question to me; who then assumes liability when and if the ladder were to break? My reply was; you tell me, you are risk management. His reply was that the person providing the ladder would be liable. That is how our insurance would view it, and I can understand that.

So I guess my questions to you folks are; Who provides the ladder? Have you tried to reconcile the requirement of the code for access and means, with risk management or your attorneys? Has it changed how you do business?

Just looking for some viewpoints.


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## Gregg Harris (Jul 23, 2012)

My opinion would be either the contractor or the home owner. As stated in the code."duty of the permit holder".


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## Daddy-0- (Jul 23, 2012)

Our solution is this: we do not go on roofs. We do a visual inspection of the roof from the ground. We are not even allowed to climb an internal ladder between floors if the stairs are not installed. We do climb ladders down into basements at foundation stage and up through scuttle doors for finals. I am of course talking about residential. I don't know what the commercial guys do.


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## Daddy-0- (Jul 23, 2012)

And the contractor is responsible for providing a safe and appropriately sized ladder where necessary. We also do not go up pull down stairs unless they are properly nailed and secured. It is NOT a good feeling to be halfway up the stairs and realize that they are not secured or supported. We did have one fall out several years ago with an inspector on them. I can also say that last fiscal year our department had ZERO injuries or workman's comp claims. That was a good year for the risk management cronies.


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## ICE (Jul 23, 2012)

Well it isn't me that supplies a ladder.  It can be just about anybody including a neighbor....and has.  After all, how would I know.

Here we have the flipper telling me that he would crawl off the ladder if he had to get on the roof.







So Daddy-0-, how do you inspect roofs that can't be seen from the ground?

In my youth I had occasion to be a spotter for a crane.  Sometimes the only possible place for me to be where I could see both the crane and the load was not accessible by any means other than the ball.  So I would straddle the ball and get a ride to a skinny perch.  And yes I was scared so I held on tight.

Imagine the reaction if I found someone doing that today.

It's OK if I do it, but don't you dare.

Why's that?

I trust me....you I don't know.


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## TheCommish (Jul 23, 2012)

Inspections from the ground residential, roofing, chimneys , will not climb ladders for any external inspection, will not go on job site if not safe in my opinion, no chicken ramps to front door, no pallets leaned up, stairs on very low step.

For commercial I will ride an appropriate lift to the roof or use the permanent internal ladder to the roof, stairs or lifts between floors


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## DRP (Jul 23, 2012)

Interesting question, curious what my risk manager would say under those liability stipulations. I suspect you should really bring your own provided by your employer nowadays.


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## cda (Jul 23, 2012)

FB,,,,

And at commercial site if something breaks is risk management going to go after the building owner, contractor, gc, etc??????

You migh want to ask risk management that question


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## Daddy-0- (Jul 23, 2012)

Ice

With the typical houses we have here you can see almost all of the roofs from the ground or from a window. You may have to walk away a bit and use binoculars. For the 5% that you cannot see we weigh the risk vs benefit and walk away. BTW. Reroof jobs are exempt from permits in Virginia so it is not that crazy. We don't look at sheathing nailing either. That is a local thing. (Keeps the permit fees down)


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## fatboy (Jul 24, 2012)

cda, I'm sure our insurance company would go back against anyone that had a deep pocket, and any sort of connection to an incident.

Keep the comments coming please!


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## Keystone (Jul 24, 2012)

A while back, had an insurance agent perform work on his own home, accessed through a ceiling access panel. Onsite to conduct insp, no ladder, owner refused to provide, at that point insp considered failed on basis of no access. Day later we recieve 2 page letter from agent citing (sections from his policy) he will allow use of ladder if we provide a ladder and if we provide him with documentation of approved safety course. From there it was turned over to the legal begals, end result, insurance agent provide access via ladder only after some back and forth with  and legal.

We are not prohibited from using ladder although we do not carry a ladder most of our guys will use a ladder. Not prohibited from climbing scaffolding but most guys will not and are not encouraged to do so.


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## mtlogcabin (Jul 25, 2012)

If you can't or won't climb a ladder or scaffold or enter a crawl space then I can't use you as an inspector.

An inspector should be wise enough to know when a ladder or scaffold is unsafe and it is their call if they should continue with the inspection or not.

We provide ladders and fall protection harnesses for them to use when needed


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## Keystone (Jul 26, 2012)

You can't sideline an elder or disabled inspector.


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## mtlogcabin (Jul 26, 2012)

Keystone said:
			
		

> You can't sideline an elder or disabled inspector.


That is not what we are talking about

However you can if the inspector can no longer preform the physical requirements of the job.


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## righter101 (Aug 3, 2012)

ICE said:
			
		

> So Daddy-0-, how do you inspect roofs that can't be seen from the ground?
> 
> In my youth I had occasion to be a spotter for a crane.  Sometimes the only possible place for me to be where I could see both the crane and the load was not accessible by any means other than the ball.  So I would straddle the ball and get a ride to a skinny perch.  And yes I was scared so I held on tight.
> 
> ...


My former profession was a tree climber. Some of the crane operators would let us ride the hook/ball up to the tree. Sure saved a ton of time, clipping in to that and going for a ride, 120 feet up.!!!!!!

I will look for some old pics of that to post.


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