# Vehicle impact bollards?



## mtlogcabin

Gas meters located on the side of building. Property next door is a refueling island for large trucks. There is a 6" curb and 10 feet between the vehicle lane and the gas meters. The owner of the building has been given notice by an insurance inspector to install vehicle impact bollards to protect the 3 gas meters.

Now I believe it is a good idea in this situation but I cannot find anything in the I-Codes that would have required them 4 years ago (06 codes) when the building was built.

Does NFPA have any regulations with regards to gas meters or piping located 10 ft from a driving lane?

The powers to be want to know why we did not require them at time of construction.


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## globe trekker

Have the insurance inspector provide the standard that requires the installation.

*NFPA 54, Section 5.7.2.2 states: *"Gas meters shall not be placed where they

will be subjected to damage, such as adjacent to a driveway, under a fire

escape, in public passages, halls, or coal bins, or where they will be subject

to excessive corrosion or vibration."

Also, NFPA only requires 4" dia. bollards, and they won't prevent impact

damage by large trucks.

.


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## High Desert

NFPA 54 is not a referenced standard in the IBC. Where I am, gas meter protection is the responsibility of the gas utility supplier. The Fuel Gas Code says that meters used by the serving gas supplier are outside the scope of that code. Even though a good idea to protect, not your responsibility.


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## fatboy

Section 312 of the IFC

EDIT- tell you how to, still looking for something that tells you when to proptect it.

Edit- Could fall back on 404.7 "piping installed above ground........shall be securley supported and located where it will be protected from physical damage."


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## chris kennedy

globe trekker said:
			
		

> *NFPA 54, Section 5.7.2.2 states: *"Gas meters shall not be placed where they
> 
> will be subjected to damage, such as adjacent to a driveway, under a fire
> 
> escape, in public passages, halls, or coal bins, or where they will be subject
> 
> to excessive corrosion or vibration."


You can't put a gas meter next to a coal bin??? Thats just crazy talk.


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## globe trekker

From the 2006 IBC, Section 101.2 Scope.

The provisions of this code shall apply to the construction, alteration, movement,

enlargement, replacement, repair, equipment, use and occupancy, location,

maintenance, removal and demolition of every building or structure or any

appurtenances connected or attached to such buildings or structures.

*Exception:* Detached one- and two-family dwellings and multiple single-family

dwellings (townhouses) not more than three stories above grade plane in height

with a separate means of egress and their accessory structures shall comply

with the _International Residential Code_.

IMO, by using the "most restrictive" application, the location & protection

of any gas meters should be discussed and agreed upon before they are

installed.

mtlogcabin,

Was this drive thru fueling station built after your meters were already set?

.


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## mtlogcabin

> Was this drive thru fueling station built after your meters were already set?


No it has been there for about 30 years



> NFPA 54 is not a referenced standard in the IBC


That is probably my answer to the powers to be. I have a call into the gas company about their policy and requirements for bollards at meter locations. Being Friday and right in the middle of our 2 weeks of summer I don't think I will hear back from anyone until Monday.


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## Gregg Harris

chris kennedy said:
			
		

> You can't put a gas meter next to a coal bin??? Thats just crazy talk.


In years past homes that where served by coal/ coal chutes that dumped into basements led to meter readers trying to decipher the numbers on the meter when it was located in the same area and full of coal. I would think the chances of using multiple fuel, short of electric and gas is not to prevalent any more.


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## Papio Bldg Dept

As fatboy/high desert said, you can use the IFGC (or any other configuration of those letters) protection from physical damage statement, but it is a stretch, and depending on the AHJ interpretation, could go either way.  I typically use a phrase that states it is strongly recommended to use bollards as a minimum means of protection against physical damage (especially vehicular).


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## High Desert

Actually I said you couldn't use the IFGC. It specifically says the gas supplier meters are outside the scope of the code.


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## High Desert

What you could do is tell the gas company they can't install an unprotected gas meter on private property that may be a hazard to the building it is serving. I think you may have some teeth in that. In fact, I did that before and they did install protective bollards.


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## Insurance Engineer

globe trekker said:
			
		

> Have the insurance inspector provide the standard that requires the installation.


We make recommendations, if you do not do as we say we charge you more $$:inspctr

Bollards is a very common recommendation for us to make and most times we get them put in with little push back.


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## cda

My boss requires it, not sure if he uses a code section

Not in the office this week

As far as the insurance company requiring it they just might not need a code section

More because I said so or pay more premiums

If it is not in the code than tell the city that


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## steveray

Agree with HD.....it is a stretch to use protection from physical damage.....and I don't know where it is required in our code...we let the gas CO know and see if they want to require it.....


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## globe trekker

mtlogcabin,

Which was installed first,  the building or the gas meters?   If the building was

built first, that might have been an oversight during plan review, ..that the

meters would be located where the gas piping exited the building.

Just sayin'

.


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## Builder Bob

Vague and not well written ---- and not in chapter 3 of the IFC -

603.9 Gas meters. Above-ground gas meters, regulators and piping subject to damage shall be protected by a barrier complying

with Section 312 or otherwise protected in an approved manner.

When subject to damage? what is your opinion?


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## cda

Bob

You caught it

And seems would be case by case


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## fatboy

Good catch BB, and yes, would be TBD by the AHJ.....


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## globe trekker

> There is a 6" curb and 10 feet between the vehicle lane..


The 6" curb might be considered as an approved means of protection by the AHJ..


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## Gregg Harris

I would think the 6" curb and ten feet of property would be sufficient, vehicular traffic in that area would not be a normal occurance.

If it where mounted on the side of the building with open driving area I could see the requirement.


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## Builder Bob

Gregg Harris said:
			
		

> I would think the 6" curb and ten feet of property would be sufficient, vehicular traffic in that area would not be a normal occurance.If it where mounted on the side of the building with open driving area I could see the requirement.


Well this is what 6" curb and a five foot sidewalk got you......... I think perhaps the front of the car is more than 10 feet from the curbline.....


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## steveray

You can't stop stupid!......A 4" gas main would be allowed inside the building in the picture you show, and then what?  It takes a decent effort to get a car over a 6" curb and 10' in.....I believe the reasonable level of safety prevents minor accidents and mistakes from becoming large incidents (hopefully)......



			
				Builder Bob said:
			
		

> Well this is what 6" curb and a five foot sidewalk got you......... I think perhaps the front of the car is more than 10 feet from the curbline.....


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## Gregg Harris

You are right steveray, you can't prevent stupid. Should we stop and install bollards around every electric pole on a highway or main street because someone might run into it. I have seen cars land on top of two story houses. There was a post here not long ago where the care drove into the house and ended up in the basement. Do we stop building homes or cars?


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## Paul Sweet

"Do we stop building homes or cars?"

Don't give the greenies any more ideas!

603.9 can probably lead to more arguments than it will resolve.  What is "subject to damage", and how is something "otherwise protected in an approved manner"?


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## instantmessenger

I read through this thread. I didn’t see an answer to the question of when bollards are required to be installed. In my case I’m wondering when bollards are required to protect nearby storefront.


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## cda

instantmessenger said:


> I read through this thread. I didn’t see an answer to the question of when bollards are required to be installed. In my case I’m wondering when bollards are required to protect nearby storefront.



More of a security thing, more of the old person misses the brake and hits the store, more of a deterrent from stealing the atm


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## e hilton

cda said:


> more of the old person misses the brake


Lets be careful about throwing around derogatory terms like “old”.  Some of us are.  My daughter hit the gas instead of the break in drivers ed, hit a light pole.  Got to buy a new radiator And bumper.


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## instantmessenger

cda said:


> More of a security thing, more of the old person misses the brake and hits the store, more of a deterrent from stealing the atm


I know what they are for and for whom they are more likely to be helpful for. I’m really looking for a code and specific section as to when and where they must be installed. If it’s distance, what distance is far away enough so they are not required? If no specific section other than 312.2 IFC and NFPA gas installation, is this more a standard of care and general liability that we as architects must include when designing?


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## ICE

California Plumbing Code
1208.7.1.1 Subject to Damage. Gas meters shall not be placed where they will be subjected to damage, such as adjacent to a driveway; under a fire escape; in public passages, halls, or where they will be subject to excessive corrosion or vibration. [NFPA 54:5.7.2.2]

"Shall not be placed" tells you that they can't be where they will be subjected to damage.  The code does not say that they shall be protected from damage with bollards or any other physical means of protection.  The building official has to make that leap.  It is a somewhat odd list of places that preclude the placement of a gas meter.  The words "such as" are a launch pad for a leaping building official.


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## instantmessenger

What about bollard placement with respect to storefront?


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## Paul Sweet

I haven't seen any code requirement for bollards to protect storefronts.  I think the GSA has standards for federal government buildings.  Security people might recommend them in some cases.


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## Rick18071

Insurance companies don't need your stinking codes!
 Once my insurance company told me to build a stairway from a roof of my 100 year old investment property (2 apartments) to the connected neighbors (different owner) apartment building 3rd floor deck because there was a door that went onto my roof and someone would not be able to get off the roof if there was a fire in my building. It didn't seem to matter to the insurance company that there was no egress from the neighbors deck. I just waited 2 weeks and told the insurance company that I could not get a zoning permit to to it.


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## ICE

It's not always the company making the request.  The company has employees.... those employees can get the train off the tracks.

Years ago I got an inspection request for a hydrogen collection system in a half million sq.ft. warehouse.  It consisted of a curtain hanging from the roof and two sets of exhaust fans.  The four fans represented a fail-safe.  The fans were generic grease hood fans. When I told them that all the equipment and all of the conduits that passed through the collection zone would have to be listed for use in a hydrogen environment they cried.

They told me that the insurance company was behind this because they had electric forklifts that needed to be charged.  The curtain hung down eight feet from a roof that was forty-two feet off the floor.  The collection zone was above the line where the lifts were charged.  The manufacturer of the lifts stated that there is negligible hydrogen emitted for about a minute at the end of the charging cycle.

I think their maintenance man designed the hydrogen collection system.  The work was done so I told them to amend the permits to state "environmental exhaust fans", remove the curtain and ignore the insurance company.  They did all of that.  I didn't hear from them after that.






						car battery question
					

There was another thread dealing with golf cart batteries.  Is there an exception to batteries filled with electrolyte ?  in a vehicle, when you have say 50 vehicles stored with battery? or what ever number pushes it past the exempt amounts for corrosive?



					www.thebuildingcodeforum.com


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## EALICEA

Your thoughts...... I have a garage that has both HVAC unit and water heater (both electric) in a room at the end of the garage, in direct path of a vehicle. The contractor is calling it a utility room. I have told him that vehicle bollards are required. The contractor is trying to tell me that the 2x4 studded wall is an approved barrier. 

the code book states: 

*M1307.3.1 Protection from impact. Appliances shall not be installed in a location subject to vehicle damage except where protected by approved barriers.*

Can I please get some insight and guidance on your interpretation of this code?  Thank you in advance.


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## ICE

I agree with your contractor’s assessment that the equipment is in a utility room but not that a 2x4 stud wall is an approved barrier.  The fact that the equipment is not in the garage eliminates a code requirement for protection from physical damage.  You have the option to provide bollards and if the appliances were gas fired it wouldn't be a bad idea.  You could also ask your wife to park on the other side of the garage.

CPC
507.13.1 Physical Damage. Appliances installed in garages, warehouses, or other areas subject to mechanical damage shall be guarded against such damage by being installed behind protective barriers or by being elevated or located out of the normal path of vehicles.  

CMC
305.1.1 Physical Damage. Appliances installed in garages, warehouses, or other areas subject to mechanical damage shall be guarded against such damage by being installed behind protective barriers or by being elevated or located out of the normal path of vehicles.


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## mtlogcabin

If the appliances where located directly on the other side of the garage 2 X 4 wall but within the dwelling unit are they protected? Does it meet the intent of the code? I say yes and agree with the contractor.



ICE said:


> The fact that the equipment is electric and not in the garage eliminates a code requirement for protection.


Well ICE it is a slow afternoon here in the office so I thought I might use your response and head down the rabbit hole on this subject.

The requirement mentioning vehicle impact protection is a carry over from the CABO Legacy code and that is one reason why you find similar same language in the IRC and IFGC. Below is from the 1982 CABO code notice it mentions heat and comfort cooling appliances that would include electrical AC units. In the Legacy codes Fuel Gas requirements where part of the plumbing and mechanical codes  and protection




Impact protection is not limited to garages or vehicles or between the fuel requirements of the appliance. It can be Electric or Gas or Oil since the IMC regulates appliances and exhaust systems that contain large amounts of various gases and flammable materials that are harmful or deadly to people and the environment if not contained impact protection is required.

303.4 Protection from damage.
Appliances shall not be installed in a location where subject to mechanical damage unless protected by approved barriers.

APPLIANCE. A device or apparatus that is manufactured and designed to utilize energy and for which this code provides specific requirements.

Chapter 9 has requirements for 28 different appliances. This requirement is often overlooked or not considered when it comes to material handling equipment such as fork lifts and similar equipment


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## ICE

I removed the reference to electric powered appliances.  I honestly never figured slamming a car into an electric appliance to be a big deal but when I went looking for the code I realized that it covers all appliances.  Having recently replaced two HVAC systems I now think destroying a furnace is a big deal $.


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## Genduct

This is an INSURANCE INSPECTOR who can go beyond the Code to assess the RISK to Their Insurance Company for a LOSS.  If the Bldg Owner likes the Coverage and Cost of the Insurance they will conform to the reasonable request,  if not then they can get a quote from another Carrier


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## EALICEA

Thank you all for your insight.


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## instantmessenger

I would go back to the design. I would look at putting more than a 2x4 wall separating the vehicle and utility room. To me that type of separation doesn't meet "the standard of care". I say this because there are things professionals like us can get sued for that aren't in the Code books, I have seen it happen. First, to me that is not an adequate separation based on the composition of the wall, there should be at minimum a 6" curb under the wall for water an fuel leaks, etc. I would say that there needs to be protection against a slow moving bump from a vehicle so that the wall doesn't fall down. Next, to address vehicle impact, (to me) to meet the standard of care for seperation, it would have to be at least 2 courses of CMU doweled and grouted solid into the slab at 16" OC. Ideally there should be 3 courses of CMU or concrete at the same (24") height. Now whether a contractor will get sued for something like this is a very different story.


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