# Must an elevator be THE accessible MOE in a 4-story parking garage?



## Yikes (May 20, 2015)

Situation: client wants to avoid cost of standby power (a generator) for elevator oepration.

Proposed new 4-story, sprinklered parking garage (about 27,000 SF per floor) for an urban church in California.  Garage has an elevator. 7 accessible stalls are required.

Level 1 has a Fellowship Hall (assembly room), 5 accessible stalls, and a ramp to the upper levels.  The only parking provided on Level 1 is the accessible stalls.

Level 2 has 2 more accessible stalls, and conventional parking stalls.  Levels 3 and 4 have only conventional stalls, no accessible stalls.

CBC  11B-208.3.1 requires accessible stalls to be closest to the facility entrance, therefore we have grouped them on levels 1 and 2.  Does that mean that levels 3 and 4 do not have to be designated accessible?  If only the first two floors are required to be accessible, then the stairs can serve as the accessible means of egress for floors 1 and 2, and therefore no emergency power is needed for elevator operation.

On the other hand, CBC 11B-206.2.3 says that any building over 3 stories must  have an accessible route.

SOOOO: If the CBC compels me to place all accessible use (parking stalls) on the lowest levels, how can it then require me to provide an accessible MOE to the highest levels?


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## Msradell (May 20, 2015)

I like your way of thinking and without knowing the CBC requirements would tend to agree with them.  Actually, in reality is and every parking garage accessible because each floor is connected with ramps to every other floor and the exit.  It's a longer route but it is accessible!


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## JBI (May 21, 2015)

But the sloped sections exceed the rise limits of the accessibility requirements without providing a level area...


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## mark handler (May 21, 2015)

Is there an area of refuse?

Theoretically you could make the ramps slopes compliant but would also require pedestrian separation


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## jdfruit (May 21, 2015)

Even though the disabled parking spaces are not required on levels 3 & 4; access is still required for multi-story building. There are a large number of mobility impaired persons that are ambulatory and may not need the disabled parking space. There is an exception available for ramps compliant with 1010 that could be a consideration if your design constraints don't preclude fitting in a pedestrian ramp system.


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## mtlogcabin (May 21, 2015)

Is this in the CBC

IBC 2012

1007.4 Elevators.

In order to be considered part of an accessible means of egress, an elevator shall comply with the emergency operation and signaling device requirements of Section 2.27 of ASME A17.1. Standby power shall be provided in accordance with Chapter 27 and Section 3003. The elevator shall be accessed from either an area of refuge complying with Section 1007.6 or a horizontal exit.

Exceptions:



1.	Elevators are not required to be accessed from an area of refuge or horizontal exit in open parking garages.


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## north star (May 21, 2015)

*& + & + &*





> "Is there an area of refuse?"


Did you actually mean "refuse", ...or "refuge" ?........Was this a Mc-Freudian Slip ?   :mrgreen:





*& + & + &*


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## mark handler (May 21, 2015)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> 1.	Elevators are not required to be accessed from an area of refuge or horizontal exit in open parking garages.


Does not work for exit from building.


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## mark handler (May 21, 2015)

north star said:
			
		

> Did you actually mean "refuse", ...or "refuge" ?........Was this a Mc-Freudian Slip ?


My tablet auto corrects spelling, sometimes changing the words/meaning....


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## mtlogcabin (May 21, 2015)

mark handler said:
			
		

> Does not work for exit from building.


If it is in the code as an exception to the accessible elevator requirement how does it not "work"?


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## mark handler (May 21, 2015)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> If it is in the code as an exception to the accessible elevator requirement how does it not "work"?


It works for the parking structure, but not from the building


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## Yikes (May 21, 2015)

So, one way around this would be to make one of the stairwells into a horizontal exit, thus negating the elevator requirement per 1007.2.1.

Other than that, I can see the logic presented by mark and jdfruit.


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## jdfruit (May 21, 2015)

CBC 1007.4 does have the exception for parking garages, same as "regular" ICC code. Egress elevator still required.


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## jdfruit (May 21, 2015)

Making a stairwell into a horizontal exit will be an interesting design exercise. Here is the CBC definition:

EXIT, HORIZONTAL. A path of egress travel from one

building to an area in another building on approximately the

same level, or a path of egress travel through or around a wall

or partition to an area on approximately the same level in the

same building, which affords safety from fire and smoke

from the area of incidence and areas communicating therewith.


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## mtlogcabin (May 21, 2015)

mark handler said:
			
		

> It works for the parking structure, but not from the building





> Proposed new 4-story, sprinklered parking garage (about 27,000 SF per floor) for an urban church in California. Garage has an elevator.


I thought he was talking about the garage elevator not an elevator that serves the church building. We do not know that garage levels 3 and 4 are accessible from the church nor how many levels are in the church


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## mtlogcabin (May 21, 2015)

After I re-read the exception I posted I realized I was wrong

The exception is for requiring access for the elevator from an area of refuge or the horizontal exit. Not an exception to the elevator requirements


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## Yikes (May 21, 2015)

To clarify, the parking structure is actually a kind of mixed-use building.  It has only open parking on the upper floors, but on the ground floor it has a fellowship hall, five accessible stalls, and the vehicle ramp to the upper floors.

The parking primarily serves the new fellowship hall.  It may also help to serve the adjacent existing single-story church sanctuary, but that is not its primary purpose.


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## Francis Vineyard (May 21, 2015)

Don't know what CA requires but my interpretation is standby power (1007.4) is required for elevators in buildings that are 5 or more stories (1007.2.1 required accessible floor is four or more stories above the level of exit discharge).


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