# Space or Provision?



## Paul Sweet (Jan 17, 2018)

This might be a question for a forum like Mike Holt's, but I just encountered something I had never heard of before.

An engineer spec'd a 42 pole panel with 24 breakers and 18 spaces.  The panel that was installed had long buss bars, but the there was a metal cover where the 18 spaces would go and no way to connect a breaker.  The manufacturer claims that the size of the panel and the long buss bars gave us "space" for 18 additional breakers, but the electrician should have ordered "provisions" to be able to mount additional breakers in the space provided.

When I used to do mechanical/electrical engineering in the 1970s to 1990s "space" meant you just had to stab or bolt a breaker in.

Is this a new industry standard, or just one manufacturer's attempt to squeeze additional $ out of a project?


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## steveray (Jan 17, 2018)

Is it just the deadfront that does not allow the breakers or is ther no way to attach them to the "long buss"?


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## cda (Jan 17, 2018)

Picture???


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## Paul Sweet (Jan 18, 2018)

The deadfront can be removed, but an adapter has to be screwed onto the buss before any breakers can be installed.


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## cda (Jan 18, 2018)

Paul Sweet said:


> The deadfront can be removed, but an adapter has to be screwed onto the buss before any breakers can be installed.
> 
> View attachment 2745





Propably cheaper to manufacture it this way

If someone needs more breakers they can order it with the needed parts

Or in the future order all the parts


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## steveray (Jan 19, 2018)

Seems like a contractual issue more than a code issue....Bring it up to the designer and or owner and see what they say?


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## chris kennedy (Jan 20, 2018)

Paul Sweet said:


> The deadfront can be removed, but an adapter has to be screwed onto the buss before any breakers can be installed.
> 
> View attachment 2745



Not adapters, they're bus kits or bus fingers. Common practice and readily available from my suppliers.


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## Paul Sweet (Jan 22, 2018)

We finally got an explanation from the distributor.  Some panels are designed to accept only certain types of breakers, so a space is a space.  Others can accept different types of breakers, so you need "provisions" (the bus kits or fingers that Chris mentioned) for a space to be a usable space.

I wish somebody had questioned what "provisions" were needed at shop drawings; it caught the engineer and electrical contractor (both with a lot of experience) by surprise.


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## north star (Jan 23, 2018)

*@ ~ @*

Paul,

Sounds like your engineer & electrical contractor had a
"teachable moment"........Do they come to this Forum for
information, like you ?

*@ ~ @*


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## ADAguy (Jan 24, 2018)

:Shocking", to think after all your years manufacturers would attempt to "limit" whose breakers could be used on "their" panel.


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