# Double Perpendicular Curb Ramps - Intermediate Surface & Flare Requirements



## Papio Bldg Dept (Apr 18, 2011)

I am currently faced with another issue that I am having difficulty resolving, or more precisely defining the limits of compliance.  As we progress with our transition plan and develop education and training programs for contractors, developers, and engineers, we are constantly confronted with new questions and new design solutions which toe the line between compliant and non-compliant, and present gray areas which challenge the intent of the ADA & available guidelines.

I have a photograph of a double perpendicular curb ramp at a 90 degree intersection in the Public Right of Way (PROW) showing the intermediate surface between the two curb ramps as concrete with a pronounced brick pattern.  For the most part these ramps are in compliance, however, the side flare slope adjacent to the brick patterned surface exceeds 10% and the DWP alignment exceeds 8” from face of curb, and in our opinion, is therefore non-compliant.







The developer’s engineer is raising the question that the hard surfaced area adjacent to the ramps is not a pedestrian circulation path (R303.2.1.4 Flares), and as it is demarcated by a change in texture and pattern, the side flares of the ramp are not required to have a maximum slope of 10%.  They are also presenting this as a retrofit condition, and due to the fact that the street gutter flow line and integral curb with block-out were existing, that it would be structurally infeasible to replace the entire corner of curb to become compliant.


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## mark handler (Apr 20, 2011)

Do you havea real picture rather than a drawing that could be compliant?


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Apr 20, 2011)

This would be an example.  notice the brick textured concrete between the two ramps.  In this case, the flares exceed 10%.


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## mark handler (Apr 20, 2011)

ADAAG406.3 Sides of Curb Ramps. *Where provided, *curb ramp flares shall not be steeper than 1:10.

Don't provide flares


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## mark handler (Apr 20, 2011)




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## Papio Bldg Dept (Apr 20, 2011)

Would a raised curb, infilled with brick textured concrete, accomplish similiar compliance with the Dan Burden photo you posted?

example:


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## mark handler (Apr 20, 2011)

You need to have something, landscaping, or other barrier to keep people from the "curb" hazzard.

IMPO no brick textured concrete does not comply, see the second picture.

Maybe you should talk with your ADA coordinator, there are liability issues when designing curb ramps.


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Apr 20, 2011)

That is my opinion as well.  I have contacted my regional ADA center, and have not received a response back.  I have also contacted the access boards assistance help line in the past on such matters, and will be doing so again.  Defining the threshold for a curb hazard is proving more difficult than I like.  Thanks for your input.


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## pwood (Apr 20, 2011)

mark handler said:
			
		

> ADAAG406.3 Sides of Curb Ramps. *Where provided, *curb ramp flares shall not be steeper than 1:10.Don't provide flares


truncated domes?


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## mark handler (Apr 20, 2011)

Truncated domes, Not an issue in this discussion.


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## pwood (Apr 20, 2011)

mark handler said:
			
		

> Truncated domes, Not an issue in this discussion.


good comeback!


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