# Rammed Earth / Straw Bale / Alternative construction?



## Darren Emery (Apr 4, 2012)

Anyone seeing any of the alternative methods of construction in your jurisdiction?  We have a couple of straw bale homes out in the county, and have heard of a few rammed earth proponents locally.  I'm just gearing up for our first one here...

Any input would be appreciated!


----------



## gbhammer (Apr 4, 2012)

We have a few straw bale homes, no rammed earth homes. The rammed earth homes look very cool.


----------



## ICE (Apr 4, 2012)

So Hammer, Allow me to introduce you to Finpecia.

http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/showthread.php?8090-Is-this-notch-too-large&p=79666#post79666


----------



## Big Mac (Apr 4, 2012)

V-B type of construction, engineering, possible sprinkler system givent eh higher potential for combustion depending on how dry they keep it during construction.  When straw bales get wet they can internally combust.  Must keep it very dry for that reason and to control mold.

Rammed earthe I know nothing about.


----------



## gbhammer (Apr 4, 2012)

ICE said:
			
		

> So Hammer, Allow me to intriduce you to Finpecia.http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/showthread.php?8090-Is-this-notch-too-large&p=79666#post79666


Uh, must be dull to day, I don't get it.


----------



## Big Mac (Apr 4, 2012)

gb - I thought it was just me


----------



## brudgers (Apr 4, 2012)

Straw bale construction is basically wood post and beam - it's just got an unconventional infill material.

  It's also no less expensive than conventional construction, in general.

  I looked at it for an eco-house a few years ago.

  Wasn't worth the trouble compared to cellulose insulation and slightly oversize studs.


----------



## gbhammer (Apr 4, 2012)

I get it now. Finpecia thinks:



			
				Finpecia said:
			
		

> Your comments are very appreciated


----------



## mn joe (Apr 4, 2012)

I looked at one straw bale house under construction in another jurisdiction.  The builder actually had post frame construction for structural support and then in-filled with the bales for the walls.  The stucco finish on both the interior and exterior was rather uneven purposely to look rustic.  Since it wasn't my jurisdiction I don't know how it turned out or if there has been any problem with it.  I also had someone try it in my jurisdiction.  She tried to build a garage.  I issued a permit and she started, but was in over her head.  She thought it would be a cheap and easy way to build.  She eventually walked away from the property and the new owners tore down what was left.

My advise is make sure you get good plans and that the builder understands that he/she must meet the code requirements and that they must get ALL inspections.


----------



## Papio Bldg Dept (Apr 4, 2012)

gbhammer said:
			
		

> Uh, must be dull to day, I don't get it.


I think he is trying to tell us he wants to go to Denmark...i am thinking his comments may v(a)ry.


----------



## gbhammer (Apr 4, 2012)

we have two in the jurisdiction and both were built before the IRC was adopted, several years before my time


----------



## gbhammer (Apr 4, 2012)

It takes 12 hours for heat to transmit through 14 inches of rammed earth.

There are rammed earth structures still standing after several thousand years.

    Here in the states SC one was built 200 years ago still looks great. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borough_House_Plantation

Cheap and easy (relatively speaking) to build.


----------



## Big Mac (Apr 4, 2012)

I have seen and reviewed two separate types of straw bale construction.  One type was post and beam with straw bale infill, but the other was presented as a complete structural system unto itself with wood sill plates attached to the top straw bale layer to which the wood framed roof was attached.  Also had wood frames attached into the straw bales for windows and doors.  Pretty crazy, but the engineer was on the hook for it and I required special inspection not only for moisture content control but also for the structural integrity.  It was the engineers baby all the way.

I agree with brudgers, not worth the effort and expense, and when you decide to sell, who wants it?


----------



## brudgers (Apr 5, 2012)

Papio Bldg Dept said:
			
		

> I think he is trying to tell us he wants to go to Denmark...i am thinking his comments may v(a)ry.


  So long as he doesn't go to the Netherlands and become Dutch, I can't see a reason not to be tolerant.


----------



## tmurray (Apr 5, 2012)

I have a burm house that is using straw bales on the above grade walls, timber frame post, beam and purlins and a curved glulam roof system.


----------



## Frank (Apr 5, 2012)

Here is a 2 hr fire test of a straw bale wall

http://www.dcat.net/about_dcat/current/Cement_Stucco_Wall.pdf

Some localities do have prescriptive construction codes for straw bale construction here is Austin's

http://www.dcat.net/resources/Austin_Straw_Bale_Code.pdf


----------



## ICE (Apr 5, 2012)

> Uh, must be dull to day, I don't get it.


I just thought you two sounded a lot alike.



			
				Papio Bldg Dept said:
			
		

> I think he is trying to tell us he wants to go to Denmark...i am thinking his comments may v(a)ry.


You lost me with that one.


----------



## KZQuixote (Apr 5, 2012)

Darren Emery said:
			
		

> Anyone seeing any of the alternative methods of construction in your jurisdiction?  We have a couple of straw bale homes out in the county, and have heard of a few rammed earth proponents locally.  I'm just gearing up for our first one here...Any input would be appreciated!


In Oregon we have Appendix R to cover straw bale construction. One section requires a weather barrier under the exterior stucco for the bottom third of the wall and forbids any above that level. I believe that this is a misguided attempt to allow water and water vapor out of the bales.

I have repaired hundreds of stucco homes here in Oregon and in Arizona. I have learned that all stucco leaks. It may not be apparent at first but some time between seven and nine years later the water starts coming in. If the weather barrier is not in good shape the water comes all the way in. Six years ago a window manufacturer asked me to investigate a straw bale home here in Oregon. The owner had been convinced by the builder that the windows were the cause of many serious leaks. There were literally puddles of water on the first floor slab that covered half of the floor area. One look told me that the windows were in good shape and could not possibly allow that much water into the home. It had to be the stucco or the installation of the windows that was leaking. The owner hired me to investigate and I started removing stucco from several of the worst areas beneath the windows. I found that flexible flashing had been used to do a credible job of extending the nail fins out six to nine inches. Beyond that there was only straw. I though I'd found the problem and in fact I had but I also learned from the County BO that any sort of weather barrier is prohibited on the top two thirds of the wall.

The owners and I continued to search for a cure. We added roof overhangs to the previous Santa Fe style home in an attempt to shield the walls, they helped but still the water came in whenever it was windy. Finally I purchased a moisture probe for straw bales and painted the whole home with elastomeric paint. Problem solved for now.

The owner has been monitoring the moisture in the bales for two years now and we seem to have the situation under control, at least till the paint looses it's elastic properties.

Moral of the story? Bales are DUM! If you gotta bale, use BIG over hangs.

Bill


----------



## gbhammer (Apr 5, 2012)

ICE said:
			
		

> I just thought you two sounded a lot alike.QUOTE]
> 
> Well, humbug.


----------



## righter101 (Apr 5, 2012)

brudgers said:
			
		

> Straw bale construction is basically wood post and beam - it's just got an unconventional infill material.  It's also no less expensive than conventional construction, in general.
> 
> I looked at it for an eco-house a few years ago.
> 
> Wasn't worth the trouble compared to cellulose insulation and slightly oversize studs.


We had a group of the Straw Bale homes go in.  I tend to agree with the posters, including Brudgers that they are not worth the trouble.

The ones I saw had a huge (width) footing to place the bales on and seemed like a waste of space.

I tell people that we only allow straw bale construction if your primary source of heat is a Llama Dung fired wood stove.


----------



## ICE (Apr 5, 2012)

gbhammer said:
			
		

> ICE said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Remember that I am


----------

