# Outside storage of tires



## NFRMarshal (Feb 21, 2011)

How do you address the issue. The code stated 50' from buildings and lot lines. I am dealing with new and used tire shops that have outside storage issues. I am trying not to cause them too many problems so what are the options.


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## cda (Feb 21, 2011)

Apply 315.3. 2003 IFC for smaller piles

I think you would only apply chapter 25 for large piles

Unfortunately IFC does not seem to define between one tire and many, many tires


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## Frank (Feb 22, 2011)

Not just a fire code issue--

Historically outside storage of tires has ended up as a large tire dump pile that breeds mosquitos and presents the hazard of an enviromentally damaging difficult to extinguish fire with much air pollution and damaging runoof.  A 1983 fire in VA burned for 9 months and took 17 years to clean up as a superfund site.  VA has a $1 per new tire tax for tire pile cleanup.

http://www.deq.state.va.us/wastetires/progsummary3.html

EPA site

http://www.epa.gov/epawaste/conserve/materials/tires/index.htm

Most states and localities have put tight limits on outside storage if not a blanket prohibition on outside tire storage.

For example Ohio regulations

http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/3745-27-60


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 22, 2011)

Check out what this guy has done with thousands of tires

http://tiredoutranch.com/index.htm


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## AegisFPE (Feb 22, 2011)

Seems like there could at least be as big a pile against the wall outside the building or near a lot line as there could be inside a building per IFC 2509.1.


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## cda (Feb 22, 2011)

You might also check with code enforcement, if you have one, to see if they have any outside storage ordinance that may apply


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## FredK (Feb 23, 2011)

I guess this won't be the place to say that when they used shredded tires for underlayment on a road in Wash St that it started to smolder.  Never did find out happe the upshot was when it came time to fix it.


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## cda (Feb 23, 2011)

Hat fred did they get a ticket for "exhibition of speed" or in the younger days "burning rubber"


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## FredK (Feb 23, 2011)

cda said:
			
		

> Hat fred did they get a ticket for "exhibition of speed" or in the younger days "burning rubber"


No, but it was funny driving on that section of road.  There were little smoke plumes along the edges of either side of the road for about an 1/8 of a mile.  Of course this was way back in the late 80's so maybe there are better ways to lay the stuff now.


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## NFRMarshal (Feb 23, 2011)

cda said:
			
		

> You might also check with code enforcement, if you have one, to see if they have any outside storage ordinance that may apply


I assume you mean zoning? Zoning allows for the outside storage as long as it's shielded from view from the public way.


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## NFRMarshal (Feb 23, 2011)

cda said:
			
		

> Apply 315.3. 2003 IFC for smaller pilesI think you would only apply chapter 25 for large piles
> 
> Unfortunately IFC does not seem to define between one tire and many, many tires


There is 15000 BTU's of heat energy per pound of tire rubber which is higher than coal. Two straddle carrier tires stacked weight about 1000lbs that 15 million BTU's of heat energy. Still want that 10 feet from your building?


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## FM William Burns (Feb 23, 2011)

*2505.4 Distance from lot lines and buildings.* Tire storage piles shall be located at least 50 feet (15 240 mm) from _lot lines_ and buildings.


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## NFRMarshal (Feb 23, 2011)

FM William Burns said:
			
		

> *2505.4 Distance from lot lines and buildings.* Tire storage piles shall be located at least 50 feet (15 240 mm) from _lot lines_ and buildings.


Exactly....


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## NFRMarshal (Feb 23, 2011)

AegisFPE said:
			
		

> Seems like there could at least be as big a pile against the wall outside the building or near a lot line as there could be inside a building per IFC 2509.1.


I am sure 2505.4 was implemented because the outside storage of tires is unprotected and if ignited accidentally or intentionally would pose a serious threat to building and surrounding structures closer than 50" away. Not to mention the environmental impacts.


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## cda (Feb 23, 2011)

So if you have only one tire in the pile it has to be fifty feet away building or lot line??

If you have two tires in the pile it has to be fifty feet away building or lot line??


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## north star (Feb 23, 2011)

*% % % %*

What about Section 304.1.1 in the IFC?

*304.1.1 Waste material.*

"Accumulations of wastepaper, wood, hay, straw, weeds, litter *or*

*combustible* or flammable *waste or rubbish of any type shall*

*not be* *permitted to remain on* roof *or in any* court, yard, vacant

lot, alley, parking lot, *open space*, or beneath a grandstand, bleacher,

pier, wharf, manufactured home, recreational vehicle or other similar

structure."

An accumulation could be [ technically  ],  ..."two tires".

*% % % %*


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## AegisFPE (Feb 24, 2011)

NFRMarshal said:
			
		

> I am sure 2505.4 was implemented because the outside storage of tires is unprotected and if ignited accidentally or intentionally would pose a serious threat to building and surrounding structures closer than 50" away. Not to mention the environmental impacts.


The only fire protection requirement that appears to be prescribed by Chapter 25 is portable extinguishers (2508); no apparent requirement that tires stored indoors per 2509 be protected differently appears to be given.

That said, not much greater protection of adjacent properties or the environment would be present if a 2509 pile were ignited inside an unprotected building, except perhaps exterior building walls may limit radiation to exposures to some degree.  Therefore, if an exception to IBC 705.8.1 were not applicable for unlimited unprotected openings in an imaginary wall around the pile, construction of exterior wall around the pile as prescribed by IBC 705 may be appropriate in order to offer a similar degree of protection to that of an "indoor pile."

However, where IBC Tables 601 and 602 do not require any fire endurance rating for an exterior wall, the perceived benefit of an exterior wall during a fire event is theoretically zero.  As such, it would seem that no wall around the storage could provide nearly an equivalent level of protection to a wall that was destroyed in the first minute of a fire event.  Incidentally, for Type IIB or VB construction, this distance could be as little as 10 feet, similar to IFC 315.3.

Whether walls or no walls, it may be reasonable to include the exterior tire storage area(s) managed as indoor storage as part of the building area as regulated by the IBC.



			
				north star said:
			
		

> What about Section 304.1.1 in the IFC? 304.1.1 Waste material.


Where the tires are not waste, IFC 102.10 would seem to direct us to specific provisions of Chapter 25 and not apply generic "waste materials" criteria.


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## NFRMarshal (Feb 24, 2011)

AegisFPE said:
			
		

> The only fire protection requirement that appears to be prescribed by Chapter 25 is portable extinguishers (2508); no apparent requirement that tires stored indoors per 2509 be protected differently appears to be given.That said, not much greater protection of adjacent properties or the environment would be present if a 2509 pile were ignited inside an unprotected building, except perhaps exterior building walls may limit radiation to exposures to some degree.  Therefore, if an exception to IBC 705.8.1 were not applicable for unlimited unprotected openings in an imaginary wall around the pile, construction of exterior wall around the pile as prescribed by IBC 705 may be appropriate in order to offer a similar degree of protection to that of an "indoor pile."
> 
> However, where IBC Tables 601 and 602 do not require any fire endurance rating for an exterior wall, the perceived benefit of an exterior wall during a fire event is theoretically zero.  As such, it would seem that no wall around the storage could provide nearly an equivalent level of protection to a wall that was destroyed in the first minute of a fire event.  Incidentally, for Type IIB or VB construction, this distance could be as little as 10 feet, similar to IFC 315.3.
> 
> ...


So what's your take on 2505.4? Does this code apply only to massive piles of tires in a junk or waste yard type setting. The facility I am dealing with has a fairly large amount of various types of new heavy industrial type tire stored outside the structure well within the 50' limit to their building and adjacent businesses. Their building is a thin skinned butler warehouse building.


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## north star (Feb 24, 2011)

*~ - - - - + - - - - ~*

Section 2501.1 [ in the `06 IFC ] does not discriminate between "new" or

"waste" type tires.

*~ - - - - + - - - - ~*


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## brudgers (Feb 24, 2011)

AegisFPE said:
			
		

> Whether walls or no walls, it may be reasonable to include the exterior tire storage area(s) managed as indoor storage as part of the building area as regulated by the IBC.


That was what I was thinking - something along the lines of designated areas for storage clearly marked and limited in size. In terms of fire hazard, several small and separated storage areas might be better than one large area.

The next level of protection would be to provide masonry walls to reduce radiant heat transfer should a fire occur, i.e. partial enclosure.


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 24, 2011)

> The facility I am dealing with has a fairly large amount of various types of new heavy industrial type tire stored outside


Do you have proper access to the piles?

SECTION 4605

REQUIREMENTS FOR OUTDOOR OPERATIONS

4605.1 Tire storage yards.

Existing tire storage yards shall be provided with fire apparatus access roads in accordance with Sections 4605.1.1 and 4605.1.2.

4605.1.1 Access to piles.

Access roadways shall be within 150 feet (45 720 mm) of any point in the storage yard where storage piles are located, at least 20 feet (6096 mm) from any storage pile.

4605.1.2 Location within piles.

Fire apparatus access roads shall be located within all pile clearances identified in Section 2505.4 and within all fire breaks required in Section 2505.5.


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## FM William Burns (Feb 24, 2011)

Protection



> The only fire protection requirement that appears to be prescribed by Chapter 25 is portable extinguishers (2508); no apparent requirement that tires stored indoors per 2509 be protected differently appears to be given.


2501.1 Scope. Tire rebuilding plants, *tire storage* and tire byproduct facilities shall comply with this chapter, other applicable requirements of this code and NFPA 13. *Tire storage in buildings shall also comply with Chapter 23.*

*TABLE 2306.2 GENERAL FIRE PROTECTION AND LIFE SAFETY REQUIREMENTS*


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## cda (Feb 24, 2011)

Well on new places hopefully you can notify them up front before they buy a building or lease that the fifty foot rule applies

Just have heart burn that the code does not set an amount or size where it applies


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## AegisFPE (Feb 24, 2011)

NFRMarshal said:
			
		

> So what's your take on 2505.4?


I would submit that 2505 could be applicable where the pile size set by 2509.1 is exceeded; up to that size, address as presented in prior post.


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## AegisFPE (Feb 24, 2011)

FM William Burns said:
			
		

> Tire storage in buildings shall also comply with Chapter 23.


Section 2302.1 defines High-Piled Combustible Storage as rubber tires where the top of storage exceeds 6 feet in height.  Where the storage does not exceed this height, the storage arrangement need not be identified as high-piled storage, and Chapter 23 need not apply.


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## FredK (Feb 24, 2011)

FM William Burns said:
			
		

> ......
> 
> *Tire storage in buildings shall also comply with Chapter 23.*
> 
> *TABLE 2306.2 GENERAL FIRE PROTECTION AND LIFE SAFETY REQUIREMENTS*


I submit that until a permit is needed then Chapter 23 doesn't apply.

105.6.29 Miscellaneous combustible storage.

An operational permit is required to store in any building or upon any premises in excess of 2,500 cubic feet (71 m3) gross volume of combustible empty packing cases, boxes, barrels or similar containers, rubber tires, rubber, cork or similar combustible material.


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## NFRMarshal (Feb 24, 2011)

AegisFPE said:
			
		

> I would submit that 2505 could be applicable where the pile size set by 2509.1 is exceeded; up to that size, address as presented in prior post.


2509.1 isn't setting the outdoor tire pile size, it sets indoor. 2505.1 only sets the maximum dimensions of a pile outside not the minimum to be considered one. Four of those Straddle Carrier tires I quoted before stacked would be 6ft tall. That's 30 million BTU of heat producing potential. That is a pile in my book.


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## NFRMarshal (Feb 24, 2011)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Do you have proper access to the piles?SECTION 4605
> 
> REQUIREMENTS FOR OUTDOOR OPERATIONS
> 
> ...


Access is not an issue with this tire storage area.


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## NFRMarshal (Feb 24, 2011)

"Well on new places hopefully you can notify them up front before they buy a building or lease that the fifty foot rule applies. Just have heart burn that the code does not set an amount or size where it applies"

Only problem is we never find out about these places until they have already moved in and obtained their business license. We are not included on the business license checklist. Unless the business owner is sharp he may never consider contacting the fire Marshal before starting operations.


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## Marshal Chris (Feb 24, 2011)

I'm dealing with this similar situation now.  This isn't for large tires though.  This business has thre two level racks outside against a neighboring building.  You couldn't get 50 foot from a lot line on this property.  It may not even be 50X50.


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## NFRMarshal (Feb 25, 2011)

Marshal Chris said:
			
		

> I'm dealing with this similar situation now.  This isn't for large tires though.  This business has thre two level racks outside against a neighboring building.  You couldn't get 50 foot from a lot line on this property.  It may not even be 50X50.


I have a used tire shop like that. He has a small building with no inside tire storage, only enough room for tire changing equipment. Tires stored on wood racks in a 15x20 area right next to the building outside. He is having a metal storage building constructed on site so he can move the tires inside.


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## Marshal Chris (Feb 25, 2011)

This is what I saw when I arrived for the reinspection today.

View attachment 406


View attachment 406


/monthly_2011_02/photo.JPG.d4893b2358df30265d7aaa1b8e967d29.JPG


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## NFRMarshal (Feb 26, 2011)

Waste? Violation of 2505.4? Does not look like 50' to me.

Code of Virginia states the following:

It shall be unlawful for any person to store, dispose of, speculatively accumulate or otherwise place more than 100 waste tires on public or private property, without first having obtained a permit as required by § 10.1-1408.1 or in a manner inconsistent with any local ordinance. No person shall allow others to store, dispose of, speculatively accumulate or otherwise place on his property more than 100 waste tires, without first having obtained a permit as required by § 10.1-1408.1.

C. Any person who knowingly violates any provision of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. However, any person who knowingly violates any provision of this section and such violation involves 500 or more waste tires shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

You may have a similar code for your state.


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