# Personal experience



## ICE (Jul 21, 2011)

I joined this forum a few days after it started.  It was like everybody was on steroids.  The ICC had just shot itself in the foot and this place was populated by ardent ICC forum members. Most everybody was familiar with the membership but nobody knew me.  That's kinda how I was treated by a handful of members.  I was insulted with remarks that could get you punched in person.  I mentioned it to Jeff; he told me that boys will be boys and shrugged it off.  I decided that rather than play with a crowd with some bullies about, I would go elsewhere.

I looked at the site as a guest a few times a week until last month.  I watched as the crowd grew and more voices emerged.  I saw a gradual mellowing of the attitude.  I always went to a brudgers post because he was the only one I remembered as he really pi$$ed me off.

I saw brudgers lambaste, and lampoon.....and every now and then, harpoon.  I watched him mellow too.  I grew to enjoy his sense of humor and the man is a master of the metaphor.  I came to understand that his view is shared by a significant segment of the population.  I saw a brudgers standing in front of me making similar statements.  Anybody that has been at this for any length of time can recognize the "brudgers" in their world.  Do you discount them because they don't behave the way you want them to behave?  Or do you recognize that if you blow them off, you may miss some important wisdom?

The thread that started a ruckus was mild behavior for brudgers.  Almost namby-pamby.  But like I said, he has mellowed.  I am so surprised that he wasn't shouting that we are in a police state when a kitchen remodel as simple as removing a partition wall can cause a sprinkler system to be installed in a building that was approved as is.  It's tantamount to going back in time, rewriting the law and then busting people.

Brudgers is rude at times and so am I.  My guess is that we all are.  I know that brudgers doesn't have the rude monopoly here.  Hell, I saw one of you compare him to a wife beater and a little man.  That was way rude and somebody needs to talk to you about that.

Sometimes the rude brudgers gives you is too funny to care about the rudeness.  Come back at him with that and he will show his talent.  Pay attention to what he has to say because so far, I haven't seen anybody here besides brudgers, willing to tell the emperor that his a$$ is hanging out and like Jeff told me, boys will be boys.

Oh, in case you were wondering, elsewhere pales in comparison.

Tiger

Look at the trouble that's been caused:

http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/showthread.php?5790-Just-found-this-site-!!!!!


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## FM William Burns (Jul 21, 2011)

Well said.....besides I withstood ConArb


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## peach (Jul 21, 2011)

Part of the problem with ALL of us is that we have opinions.. and we find the "soft spot" when someone is passionate.. so we tend to pick the scab.


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## texasbo (Jul 21, 2011)

ICE said:
			
		

> I joined this forum a few days after it started.  It was like everybody was on steroids.  The ICC had just shot itself in the foot and this place was populated by ardent ICC forum members. Most everybody was familiar with the membership but nobody knew me.  That's kinda how I was treated by a handful of members.  I was insulted with remarks that could get you punched in person.  I mentioned it to Jeff; he told me that boys will be boys and shrugged it off.  I decided that rather than play with a crowd with some bullies about, I would go elsewhere.  I looked at the site as a guest a few times a week until last month.  I watched as the crowd grew and more voices emerged.  I saw a gradual mellowing of the attitude.  I always went to a brudgers post because he was the only one I remembered as he really pi$$ed me off.
> 
> I saw brudgers lambast, and lampoon.....and every now and then, harpoon.  I watched him mellow too.  I grew to enjoy his sense of humor and the man is a master of the metaphor.  I came to understand that his view is shared by a significant segment of the population.  I saw a brudgers standing in front of me making similar statements.  Anybody that has been at this for any length of time can recognize the "brudgers" in their world.  Do you discount them because they don't behave the way you want them to behave?  Or do you recognize that if you blow them off, you may miss some important wisdom?
> 
> ...


That's all real touching and everything, but I'll start by saying I'm a little confused by the contradiction in your post. First you say it's OK; dare I say "cool" to be rude to other members, then you finish by giving an example where a new member expresses reluctance due to personal attacks. Which one is "cool"?

No matter how you couch it, there's no excuse for being an A-hole. I've made it clear that when that happens, the A-hole is going to get it right back in their face. I have no problem with your man-crush with brudgers, but don't expect everyone else to share your ecstasy. Insulting another member when they are trying to learn something is inexcusable under any circumstances. A member of this forum's opinion is just one of many, and is no more or less important than anyone else's.

So, you two can get a room, or you can accept the fact that when you're rude to someone, you can expect reciprocation.

Because boys will be boys...


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## peach (Jul 21, 2011)

and girls will be girls and will blast right back.. however, new contributors should be given a certain measure of soft touch, so they tell their co workers/friends about this site (oh wait.. do I sound like a BD guy.. that's business development for you jurisdiction types).  Drop the hammer, when necessary, for us with beef jerkey for skin.. we can still learn.


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## texasbo (Jul 21, 2011)

peach said:
			
		

> and girls will be girls and will blast right back.. however, new contributors should be given a certain measure of soft touch, so they tell their co workers/friends about this site (oh wait.. do I sound like a BD guy.. that's business development for you jurisdiction types).  Drop the hammer, when necessary, for us with beef jerkey for skin.. we can still learn.


Exactly. I've never once complained to an owner or mod when someone is rude to me (I've never complained to an owner or mod period); I just give it right back. However, new members don't deserve it, especially when they are not being arrogant or inciting themselves.


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## ICE (Jul 21, 2011)

texasbo said:
			
		

> That's all real touching and everything, but I'll start by saying* I'm a little confused by the contradiction in your post*. *First you say it's OK; dare I say "cool"* to be rude to other members, then you finish by giving an example where a new member expresses reluctance due to personal attacks. Which one is "cool"?No matter how you couch it, there's no excuse for being an A-hole. I've made it clear that when that happens, the A-hole is going to get it right back in their face. I have no problem with your man-crush with brudgers, but don't expect everyone else to share your ecstasy. Insulting another member when they are trying to learn something is inexcusable under any circumstances. A member of this forum's opinion is just one of many, and is no more or less important than anyone else's.
> 
> So, you two can get a room, or you can accept the fact that when you're rude to someone, you can expect reciprocation.
> 
> Because boys will be boys...


I guess you missed the winks and my reply to the new guy.

In as much as my opinion is more or less unimportant, why bother to insult me with innuendos.  The tempest in your teapot is boiling over.


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## ICE (Jul 21, 2011)

So Tex,

It came to me during dinner, you are the guy that I said was way rude and should be talked to.  Little did I know the privilege would be mine.

Did you notice that the new guy said he saw attacking behavior?  What's the odds he was talking about you?


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## fatboy (Jul 21, 2011)

And again, we are sinking into petty BS, lets move on folks. brudgers can be smart, and be an a$$hole........all in one post, he is what he is. The rest of the forum, for the most part can get along, while having differing opinions. Let's just get by this last few days............


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## KZQuixote (Jul 21, 2011)

ICE said:
			
		

> So Tex, What's the odds he was talking about you?


Little to none.

Bill


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## brudgers (Jul 22, 2011)

Oh ****, I wasn't going to write this

As hard as it may be to believe, I do care about improving code  officiating enough to have fallen on my sword. So yes, I am passionate, and I know how I come off.

Occasionally, I even regret it (e.g. at the time, had I  known eweandme was a woman I would not have used my standard "you  should go into cosmetology or floral arranging" which was something we  used to joke about when I was in vocational school and one of us whined  about having to do all those damn drawings. I'd say the same thing to  Texbo - if I haven't at least once already). Usually I don't.

The internet has been around for a long time, virgins are rare - which  perhaps explains the lack of unicorns - and I wouldn't advocate  sacrificing one should any actually be encountered.

However, It has been my  experience that people who jump into a forum with both feet making  coherent posts in multiple  fora, have been around the block a few or  more times.  It is highly unlikely this is their first rodeo or they got lost on their way to www.ravelry.com and wound up here.

I don't want to give another rehash of my recent conversation with the person who always makes me think "DQ" - you can read that one from the beginning.

This is what I will say.

In so far as I have an agenda, it is based on a few simple beliefs.

Lack of code knowledge is harmful to the perception of code officials as professionals.

Trying to justify or rationalize a probable misinterpretation of the code is harmful to the perception of code officials as professionals.

There are real and practical reasons why these situations occur.

Some of those real and practical reasons can potentially be mitigated through my posts on this forum.

That's not to say, that I don't enjoy writing just for the hell of it.


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## Mac (Jul 22, 2011)

There ought to be more design professionals here - just to provide some form of "opinional balance". If Brudgers is the worst of it, well it isn't so bad. Lighten up people.

Read and  post, agree or not, then go back to work and face the piles of work that can make a real difference in your community.


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## TimNY (Jul 22, 2011)

Unfortunately I wasn't around to post in Jeff's locked thread, so I'll take this opportunity to tell it how I see it.

I am not a fan of 'internet balls'.  Which is to say, I don't believe certain individuals would speak face-to-face as they do here.  I don't lose any sleep, but it is aggravating.

So aggravating, imho, that threads suffer because the rest of you do not participate so as to avoid engaging certain individuals.

Take, for instance, the work area thread.  I think the core substance of the thread was great;  I learned a few things.  Only a handful of people participated until the thread died.  I said my part, others said theirs.  When the thread died, people came out of the woodwork.  Solely my opinion, but I think there were people that wanted to contribute to the thread that abstained rather than deal with the crap.  You are free to form your own opinion-- unless you start a thread about it.

Right, wrong, thick- or thin-skinned, I think threads are suffering do to 'internet balls'.  If your philosophy is that this forum is to help develop thick skin, then we're on the right track.  If the purpose is to encourage participation in threads, you are just fooling yourself.

To summarize:

1.  Deriding your professionalism and accusations of willfully breaking the law == ok

2.  Flashbang to the nuts == not ok.

Got it.


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## Builder Bob (Jul 22, 2011)

People will always have a difference of opinion..... brudgers, fatboy, conarb, fm, peach, and others have been around for a long time.... I know that I come off as a bit harsh at times but really enjoy seeing another person's opinion.

I have also learned to ignore or wait to respond when my dandruff gets raised.....otherwise, the skin flakes begin to fly and I quit looking like Fabio ;P


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## Yankee (Jul 22, 2011)

I missed whatever thread caused this discussion but as I have been here since day 1, I am familiar with some of the more distasteful posts. There is plenty of support on this forum and plenty of bad behavior also, kinda just like the real world. If we as code officials can't get over unacceptable behavior from others how are we able to do our jobs? Move on, there's nothing to see.


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## TimNY (Jul 22, 2011)

If the header read "Code Officials Forum", I would agree.

I don't think either reply actually addresses what I said.

I don't have a problem, I'll give-and-take in any thread.

My point (my opinion):  Users are not participating due to the aforementioned reasons.

Your point (my interp): Suck it up.

I have no problem sucking it up.  How many users do we have now?  1500?  How many contriubute?  Why?


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## brudgers (Jul 22, 2011)

Regardless of the forum and its level of moderation, most people lurk (68% of forum members have zero posts).

Among those who contribute, most do occasionally. Less than 7% of forum members have 100 posts.

In other words, the bell curve is shifted way to the left.

Most people just aren't into it. Those who are - well they might make 70+ posts in less than two weeks, throw elbows, cry foul when the consequences of that occur, throw a tantrum and make themselves the center of attention, and then miraculously find the will to continue if they get enough hugs...all anonymously.

But again that's not your typical new member. The typical new member just joins to read and learn. A few of them might ask a specific question from time to time when they feel it might be helpful, but very few feel a need to jump in and express their views.

The board just isn't that interesting to most people - even though it is at times a useful resource...and that's true for most boards.


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## texasbo (Jul 22, 2011)

Looks good on paper, but we have recently had both new members and lurkers who have specifically said that they are reluctant to post because they are afraid of how they will be treated.


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## ewenme (Jul 22, 2011)

One can learn from the discussions even if one does not post. When I read threads and develop a point of view, I don't always have to express it; and especially if my point of view has already been expressed, then I don't need to bore people with a reiteration. I post way less than brudgers, and that is not because I don't have an opinion. It's because I don't *need* to express my opinion. And, I am always reminded of what a friend told me about thirty years ago:  opinions are like armpits, everyone has two.

Carol


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## Kearney.200 (Jul 22, 2011)

Every body just build a bridge


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## Daddy-0- (Jul 22, 2011)

I for one like brudgers posts. There are always two sides to every story.


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## Mr Softy (Aug 3, 2011)

texasbo said:
			
		

> Looks good on paper, but we have recently had both new members and lurkers who have specifically said that they are reluctant to post because they are afraid of how they will be treated.


i am not afraid of how i will be treated.

i am disgusted with how i have been treated.


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## Min&Max (Aug 3, 2011)

If you can not give it as well as take it you are in the wrong business. If someone does not agree with you they are going to state that and probably not dance around the edges so as to be sure not to hurt your feelings.


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## Mr Softy (Aug 3, 2011)

there's nothing wrong with disagreement. but.

one can be civil or one can choose incivility.

and that choice can speak volumes.


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## TimNY (Aug 3, 2011)

147 posts in 2 years.

82 posts in 1 month.

Just sayin'.


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## brudgers (Aug 3, 2011)

Mr Softy said:
			
		

> i am not afraid of how i will be treated.  i am disgusted with how i have been treated.


   Innocence Abused accidentally brings a dead thread back to life.  One of the perks of anonymity I suppose.


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## TimNY (Aug 3, 2011)

What was accidental about it?  How is it a perk?

Talk about non sequitur.

I guess any jumble of words will do as long as it promotes a quip?


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## Codegeek (Aug 3, 2011)

ewenme said:
			
		

> One can learn from the discussions even if one does not post. When I read threads and develop a point of view, I don't always have to express it; and especially if my point of view has already been expressed, then I don't need to bore people with a reiteration. I post way less than brudgers, and that is not because I don't have an opinion. It's because I don't *need* to express my opinion. And, I am always reminded of what a friend told me about thirty years ago:  opinions are like armpits, everyone has two. Carol


I like this!  I've heard that opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one!

As far as posting, I just joined this forum in the past three months.  I've posted questions based on situations for which I have needed assistance.  I've been very grateful for what responses I have received.  Since I'm no longer working for an AHJ, this forum has been a tremendous resource for me.  I'm not afraid to post my opinion when others post qeustions either.  I'm female and I'm not afraid to show I have a pair.  I've grown some very thick skin over my nearly twenty years in this industry.  You can't take things personally.  Look at our code hearings.  I've argued on one side of a proposed code change and sat down for a drink with my opposition later in the evening.  We're all passionate about what we do, that's what makes us such great code officials/code geeks.


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Aug 3, 2011)

The Cave of Caerbannog

I believe this issue has already been thoughtfully addressed in the Palaeartic African Bird Migration Forum Thread: Are some Forum Threads like the Cave of Caerbannog scene.

http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/showthread.php?5803-Are-some-Forum-Threads-like-the-Cave-of-Caerbannog-scene

Btw, what happened to the html hyperlinking?


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## ICE (Aug 3, 2011)

Papio Bldg Dept said:
			
		

> Btw, what happened to the *html hyperlinking*?


Could someone please explain what that is?


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## Mule (Aug 4, 2011)

It 's when you use the hyperlink button to insert a link but instead of inserting the link like this....

http://autos.msn.com/everyday/gasstations.aspx

You can give it a name like Gas Prices

I think......


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