# Inspector/Building Official or Contractor/Tradesman



## Uncle Bob (Oct 12, 2012)

Inspector writes a code violation.  The tradesman/contractor doesn't believe that it is a violation.  Who is responsible for providing the code section?

Sounds pretty simple; but, what if tradesman/contractor insists that for "every" violation that is written a code quote is demanded to prove they are violations.  Is the inspector required to provide code section and quotation of section for each code violation they write; if the tradesman/contractor insist that be done?


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## tmurray (Oct 12, 2012)

We always provide it for them if they request it. But, it's more customer service than that we are required to do it and I've only had to do it a couple times.

If I had a contractor that requested a quote for each one I would decline and inform him that we have a copy of the code at the town hall for inspection by the public in accordance with our bylaw and he can look up each violation at the town hall should he choose to do so.


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## pyrguy (Oct 12, 2012)

Hello Uncle Bob, Been a awhile.  In Georgia the inspector must provide a code section if asked under state law.  Here in Arizona the city policy is to provide if asked.


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 12, 2012)

We provide the code section when asked. Some contractors will insist on a code section just to give you a hard time. When asked in the field we explain we do not have the time to provide the specific code section but will be happy to e-mail or fax it to them at the end of the day. Don't let them get to you.


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## Coug Dad (Oct 12, 2012)

I believe a building inspector is the same as a police office, health inspector, IRS auditor, or any other agent of the government and needs to cite the specific section purported to be in violation.


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## kilitact (Oct 12, 2012)

Required in our state, if you cite it write it. This goes a long ways in preventing the old  "because I said so attitude".


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## BSSTG (Oct 12, 2012)

Greetings

I would venture to say that if the contractor wanted a code ref for every violation and there were more than couple, that's when I inform them they are subject to a reinspection fee. Fortunately that hasn't happened yet in 8 years that I recall. On the other hand some folks want copies of code references specifically and we require open records requests be filed. That is per city hall instructions. Letters of violation and citations will have specific references and the code verbage will be copied if in a letter. Makes for some long letters once in awhile.

BS


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## Frank (Oct 12, 2012)

In VA code section must be provided upon request

113.6 Approval or notice of defective work. The building official shall either approve the work in writing or give written

notice of defective work to the permit holder. Upon request of the permit holder, the notice shall reference the USBC

section that serves as the basis for the defects and such defects shall be corrected and reinspected before any work proceeds

that would conceal such defects. A record of all reports of inspections, tests, examinations, discrepancies and approvals

issued shall be maintained by the building official and shall be communicated promptly in writing to the permit holder.

Approval issued under this section may be revoked whenever it is discovered that such approval was issued in error or on

the basis of incorrect information, or where there are repeated violations of the USBC.


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## codeworks (Oct 12, 2012)

i've been here a year, and i've recently started to write code sections with violations. not common here, but it helps with the arguements. keeps them to minimum. we have so many staff changes over the years ( apperently), that the louder the contrcator, the more they complain, the less they have to comply. i say bs to that. this city adopted the code. i'm gonna do my job. i didnt inspect what may or may not have complied witht code in years past. and wont pass non complying work ,period.


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## cda (Oct 12, 2012)

Yes provide if asked

1 you may be wrong

2 there may be a different interpretation

3 there may be more than one way to comply

4 alternative methods- stretch


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## brudgers (Oct 12, 2012)

IMO, the ability to cite the code is a prerequisite for citing a non-compliant condition.


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## Builder Bob (Oct 12, 2012)

Inspection software will usually provide the code section when printed out................... the only good thing for computer inspection software so far..


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## Rider Rick (Oct 12, 2012)

Hello Uncle Bob,

When I'm the new inspector in town and the contractor want to know the code section I get my code book and look the code in front of him and then the contactor learns a little more about me.

It works for me.

Don't let them push you around but earn their respect and they will learn from you and start to ask you questions.

Hope that helps, I'm glad your back.


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## fatboy (Oct 12, 2012)

Inspector should cite code sections if asked. If you feel generous, make a copy. Or, I send the to City Hall were the Clerk's Office has a copy of all codes. If you are feeling frisky, only cite the code section with no detail, and tell them to go to City Hall.


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## Mark K (Oct 12, 2012)

If things got nasty and a case went to court the judge would require the code reference.  Bottom line you need to provide it.  It may be inconvienient but so it democracy.

California law requires that the jurisdiction have a copy of the code availible for public viewing.  In addition the model code can be viewed on line and for most jurisdictions the local ordinances are also availible on line.


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## steveray (Oct 12, 2012)

At some point you need to cite the section....(or standard or manuf specs)...or you will in front of the judge....we do not do it for every one, but if asked we will respond in writing....


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## cda (Oct 12, 2012)

Just pull out the iPad may not have the amendments

INTERNATIONAL CODE COUNCIL...


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## fatboy (Oct 12, 2012)

Or the ipad............


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## Daddy-0- (Oct 12, 2012)

Welcome back UB.... I have had an obnoxious contractor do this to try to get you to cite less violations. If you have to write the code section on the inspection receipt tell him that the inspection will be turned down for excessive defects until the violations and code sections will all fit on the inspection receipt. I don't write punch lists for people but i will provide the code section upon request. Good luck....


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## DWM (Dec 28, 2012)

with the pushy ones, i tell them what is incorrect about it and why-but it is up to them to prove me wrong but construction is on hold until it is corrected. Typ. delays cost more and our R.I. fees are $130-$530 depending,  1 contractor was so pushy that i needed to bring back up to witness and video taped our conversations along with the violations- when the gc found out that they may need to wait 2-3 days for inspection so i may assemble the task force to protect ourselves due to the continued abuse from this person- it stopped - money talks louder than i am willing to

GOOD LUCK!


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## codeworks (Dec 28, 2012)

contractors can, if they know the code, look it up themselves and challenge any call made. they do have a responsibility in actually knowing the codes they work under, they just don't realize that fact, not here any way. we don't charge reinspection fees ( foolish cause it end a lot of b.s. if that started)


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## righter101 (Dec 31, 2012)

Could you provide the code section only, not the whole text?


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## DRP (Dec 31, 2012)

Sure, all I ask is "cite?"  I'm happy to have the inspector get out their book and look it up so we can discuss it together, some real misconceptions exist on both sides, the response tells me alot.


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## ICE (Dec 31, 2012)

"Show me in the code".....Oh the many times I've heard that.  They have the right to ask.  I almost always give them the answer.  Some sooner than others.  It's all in the asking.

Often enough, as I am thumbing through the book looking for that code they scowled about, I'll find a few more that I can tell them about.

Now that I have the code in a laptop and ipad I can do a word search and find stuff pretty easy.  Not so much with the ipad but the laptop is cool.  In a few years Siri will take over.

I have on occasion said no.  More like Hell no.  Instead of a code section I give them the fair warning that if I see them again I will contact the license board and maybe, just maybe, the sheriff.  I get my share of bandits.  If they have a knack for sales they become plumbers. Easy marks abound if your a plumber.  Had one today that was a sewer liner for 15' of 4" pipe that cost $10,000.00.  A few months ago a couple with a one bathroom house paid $17,000.00 for a copper re-pipe.


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## Rider Rick (Dec 31, 2012)

ICE said:
			
		

> "Show me in the code".....Oh the many times I've heard that.  They have the right to ask.  I almost always give them the answer.  Some sooner than others.  It's all in the asking.  Often enough, as I am thumbing through the book looking for that code they scowled about, I'll find a few more that I can tell them about.
> 
> Now that I have the code in a laptop and ipad I can do a word search and find stuff pretty easy.  Not so much with the ipad but the laptop is cool.  In a few years Siri will take over.
> 
> I have on occasion said no.  More like Hell no.  Instead of a code section I give them the fair warning that if I see them again I will contact the license board and maybe, just maybe, the sheriff.  I get my share of bandits.  If they have a knack for sales they become plumbers. Easy marks abound if your a plumber.  Had one today that was a sewer liner for 15' of 4" pipe that cost $10,000.00.  A few months ago a couple with a one bathroom house paid $17,000.00 for a copper re-pipe.


I just wish that you were working as a Building Inspector for the City where I was building my house. The Building Inspectors I had just over looked a lot of very important things that I am still correcting after 20 years after final. Keep up the good work.


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## rnapier (Jan 2, 2013)

If asked we must cite the code section here. I strongly recemmend doing so when teaching. I find that 90% of the guys out there are trying to do the job right and if I fail them and they don't think they can approach me with a question then they will simply do it as I requested and go back to the way they were doing it every where else. But if they can ask me the code section and I can convince them of the requirement they will do it correctly from then on. Most of the contractors I deal with want to do it right.


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## fireguy (Jan 2, 2013)

rnapier said:
			
		

> If asked we must cite the code section here. I strongly recemmend doing so when teaching. I find that 90% of the guys out there are trying to do the job right and if I fail them and they don't think they can approach me with a question then they will simply do it as I requested and go back to the way they were doing it every where else. But if they can ask me the code section and I can convince them of the requirement they will do it correctly from then on. Most of the contractors I deal with want to do it right.


Most contractor do want to do a good job.  Most B/O want to do a good job.  Knowing the code is part of the solution, we need to know the reasons for the codes.  Tell me the code section so I can make notes in my Code Books, including the reasoning.


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## ICE (Jan 2, 2013)

Sometimes the reason isn't obvious.... or logical


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## mjesse (Jan 2, 2013)

Effective Jan. 1, 2013 Illinois Building and Code Enforcement Officials MUST include the Code section of the "alleged" violation -

Illinois General Assembly - Full Text of Public Act 097-1088


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## Mark K (Jan 4, 2013)

The fact that the legislature had pass a law mandating disclosure suggests that there is a problem.  I suggest that the applicant has a right to be told what the code section is.


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## fatboy (Jan 4, 2013)

I agree, if the applicant asks for the section, they should be told, but just because lawmakers felt the need to justify their existence and pass another law, it does not prove there was a legitimate problem. JMHO


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## ICE (Jan 4, 2013)

mjesse said:
			
		

> Effective Jan. 1, 2013 Illinois Building and Code Enforcement Officials MUST include the Code section of the "alleged" violation - Illinois General Assembly - Full Text of Public Act 097-1088


This is the full text of the Illinois law.  It is obvious that it is directed at code enforcement inspections and not new construction inspectors.



> (65 ILCS 5/11-31.1-4)  (from Ch. 24, par. 11-31.1-4)    Sec. 11-31.1-4. Instituting code hearing proceedings. When
> 
> a building inspector finds a code violation while inspecting a
> 
> ...


I think I would be upset if someone nailed a notice to my front door.

Of course this is Illinois.  During a civil disobedience (Fatboy, that means a riot), Mayor Daley decided to stop the looters.  He instructed the police to shoot to kill.  Daley went on TV with that.  I wonder if any of the cops followed the order.  Imagine the uproar today if the cops killed a guy for running down the street with a flat screen....well maybe not in Chicago but that wouldn't go unnoticed in Los Angeles.


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## David Henderson (Jan 10, 2013)

It's pretty simple to create a cheat sheet of the most common misses with the code section, and brief description of said section.


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