# Requirements for Top Landing:  Outside Patio Door Exiting to Yard



## steve.mccooper (Aug 15, 2021)

Scenario: 12' x 24' one-level cement patio, one half of which is covered and has screened walls, the other half is open to the weather. There are two 36"wide access doors for the screened-in area, each on a different wall. Neither door has a threshold. The is no direct access from the dwelling into the screened-in area; one must leave the dwelling onto the open area of the patio, then enter the screened-in area through one of the two doors. Door #1 opens outward onto the 12' x 12' open area of the patio. Door #2 opens outward to the yard, the yard being about 21" lower than the patio surface. The existing 48" wide steps (side-to-side) that connect Door #2 to the yard have three 7" risers and two 12" direction-of-travel treads. The top tread is one step down from the patio level. In this arrangement, Door #2 opens out over the steps. The configuration has been in place probably since the 1960's. Door #2 is rarely used, perhaps 1x per week at best. I recently ran across a mention of landing requirements at the top of stairs. Looking into it deeper online, there's much content that says a door opening to stairs with greater than qty 2 risers must have at least a 36" landing in the direction of travel with a width that's at least as wide as the door. Much of the content is associated with Means of Egress from e.g. bedrooms, basements, apartments, occupied buildings, day care centers, public stairways. There appears to be a few exceptions for screen or storm doors, but nothing I could say was directly applicable. I recognize the benefits of the larger landing, however I would prefer not to face the expense of replacing the existing concrete & bluestone steps which are in great shape and quite robust. Is it OK per code for the door to open over the existing steps given the scenario described above?


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## cda (Aug 15, 2021)

Welcome,,,

Might be ok, till someone gets hurt?

So why is the question coming up know???

How long have you owned the house?


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## steve.mccooper (Aug 15, 2021)

cda said:


> Welcome,,,
> 
> Might be ok, till someone gets hurt?
> 
> ...


Hello cda,

Thanks for the response.  I happen to have run across a mention of this requirement just in general reading.  I have a curiosity for new building techniques, materials and associated updated codes/recommendations to reflect engineering advances.  It made me think of situations where this may apply.  I've been using the steps as-is for over 25 years and never thought much about it.  They're well lit.  The ground is level and stable; plenty of room to allow the door to swing open.  No unique or hidden features/hazards.  The door opens and closes smoothly.    Exceptional visibility entering and exiting.  I'm all for safety and have made upgrades throughout the years that exceeded code requirements.  Perhaps some day I'll construct a wide landing for the stairs that I described in my OP, but as a start, I'm interested in what the code dictates.


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## cda (Aug 15, 2021)

steve.mccooper said:


> Hello cda,
> 
> Thanks for the response.  I happen to have run across a mention of this requirement just in general reading.  I have a curiosity for new building techniques, materials and associated updated codes/recommendations to reflect engineering advances.  It made me think of situations where this may apply.  I've been using the steps as-is for over 25 years and never thought much about it.  They're well lit.  The ground is level and stable; plenty of room to allow the door to swing open.  No unique or hidden features/hazards.  The door opens and closes smoothly.    Exceptional visibility entering and exiting.  I'm all for safety and have made upgrades throughout the years that exceeded code requirements.  Perhaps some day I'll construct a wide landing for the stairs that I described in my OP, but as a start, I'm interested in what the code dictates.



Sounds good

Give it a few days for replies


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## steveray (Aug 16, 2021)

A landing is required by current code if you were to "rebuild".....CT did not have a Statewide code until 1971....Your Town may have had a code before that, so that would be where to start, but not likely a violation and allowed to remain...

(Amd) R102.7 Existing structures. The legal occupancy of any building or structure existing on
the date of adoption of this code shall be permitted to continue without change, except as
specifically covered in this code.

(Amd) R110.1 Use and occupancy. Pursuant to subsection (a) of section 29-265 of the
Connecticut General Statutes, no building or structure erected or altered in any municipality after
October 1, 1970, shall be occupied or used, in whole or in part, until a certificate of occupancy
has been issued by the building official, certifying that such building, structure or work performed
pursuant to the building permit substantially complies with the provisions of this code. Nothing in
the code shall require the removal, alteration or abandonment of, or prevent the continuance of
the use and occupancy of, any single-family dwelling but within six years of the date of occupancy
of such dwelling after substantial completion of construction of, alteration to or addition to such
dwelling, or of a building lawfully existing on October 1, 1945, except as may be necessary for
the safety of life or property. The use of a building or premises shall not be deemed to have
changed because of a temporary vacancy or change of ownership or tenancy.
Exceptions:
1. Work for which a certificate of approval is issued in accordance with Section R110.9.
2. A certificate of occupancy is not required for work exempt from permit requirements under
Section R105.2.


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## Paul Sweet (Aug 16, 2021)

​IRC R311.3.3 allows storm & screen doors to swing out over exterior stairs.


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## steve.mccooper (Aug 30, 2021)

To Paul Sweet and steveray:  Thanks for taking time to review my question and provide responses.  I checked with the town (motivated by steveray) and they confirmed that IRC R311.3.3 (provided by Paul Sweet) applies in my situation.  Having specific code information was quite helpful to zero in on a conclusion for my scenario.  Best Regards, steve.mccooper


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## ADAguy (Aug 30, 2021)

Comes down to risk management and how large a party you hold.
Ask your property insurance carrier.


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