# New  Vehicles



## globe trekker (Jul 2, 2012)

*SCENARIO:*  You have decided that you want to purchase a new vehicle.  A

sedan, a coupe, a convertible, a pickup, an SUV or whatever.    You want

to gather some reliable information on the type you are interested in.

*QUESTION:*  What free (online) publications would you consider reliable

and that you would use to comparison shop?

Thanks!


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## cda (Jul 2, 2012)

Me I like to narrow it down to two or three cars and actually go see them and set in them

Then maybe take it down to two and see which one I can get a better deal on by visiting a couple dealerships that sale the same car

I do like edmunds.

http://www.edmunds.com/new-cars/?mktcat=new-car-spec&kw=car+specifications&mktid=ms30779642

http://www.edmunds.com/new-cars/?mktcat=new-car-spec&kw=car+specifications&mktid=ms30779642


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## Frank (Jul 2, 2012)

The above and the manufacturers' websites for specs and list pricing info--often you can go though the build your own portion of the website and get a good quote form a dealer.

Also google for online forums about the particular make or model similar to this forum that can educate you as to the strengths and weaknesses of various models as well as how to resolve various maintenance issues.  These are comments by owners looking to enjoy and maintain their vehicles.  Here are a couple I participate in but there are many others for other marques and models

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/

http://www.crossfireforum.org/forum/search.php?searchid=1608478


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## FM William Burns (Jul 2, 2012)

had mine now for three years and my former for 16 and still love:

http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/experiencef150/


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## brudgers (Jul 2, 2012)

For comparison shopping, I'd use Autotrader.

  Matter of fact, I did for the last new car we bought (Jan 2011).

  But at that point we had it narrowed down to make and model and were shopping on price and option combinations.

  The time prior (Aug 2007), I ordered a build your own.

  I put together the options and emailed them to a bunch of different sales people at a bunch of different dealers.

  Then convinced someone closer to match the best price with "high margins on no sale, won't pay the mortgage."


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## Daddy-0- (Jul 9, 2012)

Frank is in a Ferrari forum! I need to change jurisdictions!

I like to browse online with Carmax. They have thousands of cars all over the country so you can really comparison shop. They have free carfax reports and lots of customer reviews on each model. They give you a lot of information on factory options, MPG, specs, and more. Good luck. (love my Fords-Escape 5 speed AWD and F-350 diesel. Also love the wife's VW Jetta.)


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## Frank (Jul 10, 2012)

There are a number of older Ferraris that can be had for less than the price of a new F350--just be prepared for alot of maintenance on a 30 yr old Italian car.  The Forum is also very useful for determining what other sources of parts without the prancing pony on the box are the same part and can be had for more reasonable prices.


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## Francis Vineyard (Jul 10, 2012)

Just a few thoughts

Obviously from a practical or pragmatic point you may first need to consider the type of vehicle that serves your primary need unless you don’t mind driving a full size SUV mostly in the city or a roughing up a sports car on hunting and fishing trips.

A hidden cost to consider is insurance. Wife wanted one of those new Scions but was going to cost nearly $1,000 annually compared to $450 on the Quad Pick-up. 

Another cost to consider is maintenance; for example a few performance vehicles require all synthetic lubricants. Now that discounted $20 oil change jumped to $50. 

The cost of major schedule maintenance service; when I was turning wrenches half of the Mustang owners announce the car was for sale after the estimate for the 60 or 90k mile service. Even from dealer to dealer the price will vary several hundred dollars depending on what they include in the service.

Francis


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## beach (Jul 10, 2012)

> There are a number of older Ferraris that can be had for less than the price of a new F350


Most purists don't agree, but I like the Mondial convertible, you can get them for a decent price, and if you're mechanically inclined, it's not too tough to service them.


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## Phil (Jul 11, 2012)

For a general comparison of different new vehicles, I like Ford's website http://www.ford.com/compare/. You can compare the features, specifications and base price of cars from many different manufactures.


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## Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

beach said:
			
		

> Most purists don't agree, but I like the Mondial convertible, you can get them for a decent price, and if you're mechanically inclined, it's not too tough to service them.


I do all my own service on the Mondial 8 Coup--there are times I think about trading it for a Cabriolet--The Mondial Cabriolet is the only production 4 passenger rear mid engined convertible ever produced.

On a county salary I could never afford to keep it on the road if I paid for service labor.


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## Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

Francis Vineyard said:
			
		

> Just a few thoughtsObviously from a practical or pragmatic point you may first need to consider the type of vehicle that serves your primary need unless you don’t mind driving a full size SUV mostly in the city or a roughing up a sports car on hunting and fishing trips.
> 
> A hidden cost to consider is insurance. Wife wanted one of those new Scions but was going to cost nearly $1,000 annually compared to $450 on the Quad Pick-up.
> 
> ...


Sometimes it is better to go with multiple vehicles for different purposes.  Keep the older 4x4 gas guzzler for bad weather hauling and hunting and a smaller more fuel efficient sports car or crossover for decent weather commuting and antique vehicles for play.

Insurance costs are quirky one month's cost to insure the 19 year old daughters Volvo 240 with liability only will pay for six months full coverage on the Ferrari with antique tags.

Synthetic lubricants are becoming the norm for many new cars and trucks and some are going to higher capacity oil pans--Chrysler Crossfire 8 quarts of Mobile 1. But oil change intervals have also been increasing the Crossfire calculates oil life for you based on driving conditions starting with 7500 miles.  Dodge Ram 7 quarts.

Major services are costly if getting done by dealer or major shop--Dealer cost for Mondial major service $6000-8000.  Mondial major service parts to do it yourself $200 timing belts and tensioners, About $300 in gaskets and seals, and $140 for water pump kit, $45 for other belts--And the service can be done in a day.

Volvo 240 $100 for fan belts, timing belt, tensioner and seals about $600 to get done at independent shop--about 2-3 hours.


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## mmmarvel (Jul 11, 2012)

Frank said:
			
		

> I do all my own service on the Mondial 8 Coup--there are times I think about trading it for a Cabriolet--The Mondial Cabriolet is the only production 4 passenger rear mid engined convertible ever produced.On a county salary I could never afford to keep it on the road if I paid for service labor.


Reminds me of a fellow my dad worked with back in the 60's.  He had always wanted and eventually bought himself a Jaguar (back when they were something pretty special).  Well, he started to run into a few problems and had major issues with not ONLY the price they wanted for a part but the amount of time it took to obtain the part.  Turns out the fellow was a machinist and he started making his own parts as he needed them.  About 10 years later about 1/3 of that car had been hand made by him.

Another Jaguar story, this one in the late 90's - I was tutoring a high school gal for her SAT's (I was in my late 20's and it was a GOOD paying gig).  Most sessions were at her home where she lived with her parents, BIG HOUSE.  Her dad was a doctor, a surgeon I believe, anyway in his garage was a new Jaguar XJ12; the car had 12 cylinders.  I made some nice compliment to him one day regarding the car and asked how he liked it.  I will never forget his response, "Runs great, any time my mechanic is available we take it for a spin."  Told me all I needed to know about that car.


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## brudgers (Jul 11, 2012)

Frank said:
			
		

> I do all my own service on the Mondial 8 Coup--there are times I think about trading it for a Cabriolet--The Mondial Cabriolet is the only production 4 passenger rear mid engined convertible ever produced. On a county salary I could never afford to keep it on the road if I paid for service labor.


  911's are rear engined, available as convertibles, and technically four seaters.   And the engineering is German.


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## beach (Jul 11, 2012)

Key word: Mid


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## brudgers (Jul 11, 2012)

beach said:
			
		

> Key word: Mid


  If that's the case, don't use "rear."   But in any event it's like pointing out the largest dutch oven east of the Mississippi manufactured between 1874 and 1886.

  Except that it's probably a far less successful design.


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## beach (Jul 11, 2012)

And opinions are like..... Well, you know


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## Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

brudgers said:
			
		

> If that's the case, don't use "rear."   But in any event it's like pointing out the largest dutch oven east of the Mississippi manufactured between 1874 and 1886.
> 
> Except that it's probably a far less successful design.


The use of mid rear engine is to distinguish between that and the front mid engine designator that is used when the engine is in the front of the passengers but its center of mass is behind the front axle such as is used by Corvette, Viper, and the BMW M4 as well as a number of modern Ferraris.

Both mid engine designs reduce the vehicles moment of inertia resulting in more neutral handling better weight distribution and significantly better cornering and braking.   Both the Mondial and the Bertone X1/9 are very tossable in the twisties.  The Mondial is better at high speed and the X1/9 at lower speeds.  I have also noticed that the cars share a number of parts and the part will be alot more reasonably priced if it is in a Fiat box.  I also like having two trunks one in the front and one in the back.

Porsche's use of rear engine creates somewhat squirrely handling more prone to oversteer but it is a traditional feature that Porsche nuts hang on to.  The fastest road going Porche the 911 GT1 built in 1996 for the Le Mans class and 25 road going for homoligization moved the engine forward to Rear Mid engine class.

The Mondials are one of the commercially successful Ferraris of all time with almost 6800 produced over 13 years


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## brudgers (Jul 11, 2012)

The term "front mid-engine" is horse****.

  A transaxle doesn't make a Corvette any more mid engine than it makes a 1965 VW bug.

  50/50 weight distribution doesn't make a car mid-engined - nobody would describe an MX5 that way.

  At least not if they had any sense.


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## Mac (Jul 11, 2012)

"Runs great, any time my mechanic is available we take it for a spin." Told me all I needed to know about that car.

Electrical by Lucas, the "Prince of Darkness"!

Mac (ex Austin Healy owner)


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## FM William Burns (Jul 11, 2012)

Hey, I miss my 72 canrie yellow VW Bug.  My saltwater rods hanging out the window and all.  I had it up till two weeks before moving north cuz I didn't think they would handle good in the snow....didn't think of storage during th winter......damn...I miss that car! (as a tear falls from my right eye)


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## Francis Vineyard (Jul 11, 2012)

Well since we’re going off track . . .

Back in ’69 a buddy bought Beetle and with five of us packed in crossing a forge on the way to hunting camp. Started floating a little ways before the passenger thought it would be smart to force the door open and push us to the other side. Sunk in 3 ft. of water Bob kept the motor running and drove out to the other side. Left Freddy standing in the creek and freezing rain for his good deeds.

My brother owned it later until it serve its road worthy usefulness. Later my neighbor across the street converted it into a dune buggy. Went on the motocross track when a dirt bike totaled it head on. Nothing happen to the bike as it landed on top from jumping the hill and continued onwards.

Crazy kids!







Francis


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## globe trekker (Jul 11, 2012)

Well, this topic sure has gone off track! None-the-less, I appreciate everyone's feedback and

suggestions.    Great discussion!


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## beach (Jul 11, 2012)

> The term "front mid-engine" is horse****.
> 
> A transaxle doesn't make a Corvette any more mid engine than it makes a 1965
> 
> ...


Ok, I'll play...... it would be ignorant to assume that there is no such thing as a "Front mid engine" and a "Rear mid engine" vehicle just because you have never heard of one, they certainly exist and the term is real. Get yourself a subscription to Car and Driver, or you could probably just Google it and see........ Obviously most "mid engine" cars don't have the engine mounted exactly in the middle, they are either mounted towards the front or towards the rear, but still considered "mid engine"........ I could name a few, but I'll let you do the leg work. 50/50 weight distribution is not usually ideal.......


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## Francis Vineyard (Jul 11, 2012)

globe trekker my last two trucks I purchased from eBay.  No running around wasting time and gas.  This internet is an equalizer when it comes to prices.

Once I settled on what to buy, Edmunds http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/ was a good source for me; looked up the trade-in value in Kelly Blue Book http://www.kbb.com/ and added a reasonable profit margin depending on how much I wanted the vehicle.  The first truck was local advertised in the local Auto Trader and we went and saw it before making a bid.  The second truck was in Charlotte NC and found it listed on reputable dealer website before making the bid as well.

Have fun shopping and may you find a peach (no pun)

Francis


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## cda (Sep 20, 2012)

Is it time to vote haree5045 off the island???????


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## beach (Sep 20, 2012)

I vote YES


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