# Delayed Action Door Closer - Time Limit



## DTBarch (Nov 1, 2010)

Is there a max time limit on the delay for delayed action door closers installed in a fire rated door/partition that is specified in the ICC?

Most manufacturers offer closers with mechanisms allowing for 60 seconds delays in doors that can open to 90 degrees and up to 5 minutes in doors that can swing open to 180 degrees, but I don't see any reference to Code time limits in a fire rated installation or otherwise. I did find such a restriction referenced in the Australian code, but nothing in ours.

Anybody know of any limits here?


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## FM William Burns (Nov 1, 2010)

*Extracted Text: *IFC & IBC [2006]

1008.1.8.6 Delayed egress locks.

Approved, listed, delayed egress locks shall be permitted to be installed on doors serving any occupancy except Group A, E and H occupancies in buildings that are equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with :Next('./icod_ifc_2006f2_9_sec003_par039.htm')'>Section 903.3.1.1 or an approved automatic smoke or heat detection system installed in accordance with :Next('./icod_ifc_2006f2_9_sec007.htm')'>Section 907, provided that the doors unlock in accordance with Items 1 through 6 below. A building occupant shall not be required to pass through more than one door equipped with a delayed egress lock before entering an exit.

1. The doors unlock upon actuation of the automatic sprinkler system or automatic fire detection system.

2. The doors unlock upon loss of power controlling the lock or lock mechanism.

3. The door locks shall have the capability of being unlocked by a signal from the fire command center.

4. The initiation of an irreversible process which will release the latch in not more than 15 seconds when a force of not more than 15 pounds (67 N) is applied for 1 second to the release device. Initiation of the irreversible process shall activate an audible signal in the vicinity of the door. Once the door lock has been released by the application of force to the releasing device, relocking shall be by manual means only.

*Exception:* Where approved, a delay of not more than 30 seconds is permitted.

5. A sign shall be provided on the door located above and within 12 inches (305 mm) of the release device reading: PUSH UNTIL ALARM SOUNDS. DOOR CAN BE OPENED IN 15 [30] SECONDS.

6. Emergency lighting shall be provided at the door.


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## Coug Dad (Nov 1, 2010)

I think the question is more in line with the 10 seconds referenced in 715.4.7.3 for closing the door that is normally held open, not unlocking the door.


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## FM William Burns (Nov 1, 2010)

Yep, my bad "closer" time limit.......pays to read the question........ my mind was left in the woods, time to get back out there to find it


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## Coug Dad (Nov 1, 2010)

FMWB - Chasing Bambi's elusive mom????


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## FM William Burns (Nov 1, 2010)

No just a nice 10pt and 8pt since the rutt is kicking in at full swing and like most males, we get stupid when chasing.........


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## mark handler (Nov 1, 2010)

ANSI A156.19

Closing time from 90° to 10° is no faster than 3 seconds.

ADAAG

Delayed action closers are not necessary to meet the ADA  but does require adequate time for people to pass through the door.

nothing that I know of in the IBC


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## cda (Nov 1, 2010)

I think the ones with a fusable link is

When the building burns down


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## cda (Nov 1, 2010)

Ask the nice lady at this web site she knows everything

http://idighardware.com/

Her email is on the site lorrie


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## Markl_AHC (Nov 1, 2010)

No time limit. NFPA 80 referencing Self-Closing doors (6.1.4.2) requires a closing device to close the door each time it is opened and that the closer is not equiped with a hold-open device among other things (6.1.4.3 deals with hold-open devices on fire doors). MH is correct regarding minimum time to close/accessibility as mentioned.

Often thought there should be a maximum time since you can set DA closers to where they move so slowly you'd think they were being held open.

cda - She is a nice lady and much fun to be around in that hardware geek kind of way!


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## Coug Dad (Nov 1, 2010)

10 second maximum delay allowed per Section 715.4.7.3


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## mark handler (Nov 1, 2010)

delete....


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## Markl_AHC (Nov 1, 2010)

Coug Dad - That reference is for smoke-activated closers (IBC 2006 reference, correct?). Delayed action and smoke-activated - aka automatic-closing doors - are two different things. The details in the OP correctly describe delayed action closer function, not automatic closing doors.


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## Coug Dad (Nov 1, 2010)

I'm confused.  The OP indicated the walls are fire resistive rated.  All of the locations listed in 715.4.7.3 are required to be provided with doors that start to close in less than 10 seconds after the activation of a smoke detector.  If the OP's doors are not in one of those 11 specified locations, then they do not have to be closed upon the activation of a smoke detector.


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## DTBarch (Nov 1, 2010)

Thanks to all.  Mark is right.  This is not a smoke actuated situation, just a simple 3/4 hour door and frame with no hold open.  User wants convenience of door temporarily held open to shuttle things in and out of the room without having to mechanically hold the door open or install extra fire devices.


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## LGreene (Nov 1, 2010)

Daryl contacted me directly and this was my response to him:

_That’s a good question.  I have looked into that before and I’ve never seen anything in the IBC, NFPA 101, or NFPA 80 about it.  The only semi-related requirement has to do with hold-open devices that release on the fire alarm - the doors have to begin to close within 10 seconds.  There’s nothing that says how quickly they have to close after they begin.  I often specify delayed action closers on rated storage room doors as your client is requesting.  It’s much safer than having them propping open the door and worst case - if the AHJ doesn’t like how long the door takes to close, it can be adjusted easily._

So it looks like we're all in agreement.  Out of curiosity I'm going to check on it with the ICC and NFPA.  And to Charles and Mark...thank you for the compliments (even though you called me geeky!).


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## Markl_AHC (Nov 1, 2010)

I read that section such that it would apply only IF you had smoke-actuated doors, not that you must use smoke-actuated doors in those locations. If you had a smoke-actuated door in a location other than one of those referenced, the door release time could exceed 10-seconds, not that release wouldn't be required. Release is required by the reference to NFPA 80. The OP references using a specific optional feature for a closing device on a fire rated door. A delayed action closer does not incorporate any hold-open capability and will begin to close immediately unless propped or held open by something completely separate. I think the 'delayed action' part is what may be creating some of the confusion.

If I'm insulting anyone's knowledge here, you can tell me to go pound sand (which would make me think about vacation!). Another place where confusion often occurs is understanding the definition of an automatic-closing door (ACD).  Many times people assume an ACD is just a door with a closer because a fire door needs to automatically close. However, a door with a closer - and no listed hold-open device - is simply defined as a self-closing door. I inserted this text from NFPA 80-2007 which will hopefully draw more of a distinction between the two.

6.1.4.2 Self-Closing Doors.

6.1.4.2.1 Self-closing doors shall swing easily and freely and

shall be equipped with a closing device to cause the door to

close and latch each time it is opened.

6.1.4.2.2 The closing mechanism shall not have a hold-open

feature.

6.1.4.3 Automatic-Closing Doors. Automatic-closing doors

shall be permitted to close automatically by means of the installation

of a closing device and one of the following:

(1) A separate, labeled, fail-safe door holder/release device

or a hold-open mechanism that shall be permitted to be

an integral part of the basic closing device

(2) An integral closing device that allows the door to swing

freely and that automatically closes the door during an

alarm condition, provided the hold-open mechanisms are

released by one or a combination of automatic fire detectors

acceptable to the AHJ.

In reading 715.4.7.3, it references smoke-actuated automatic-closing doors exclusively. This section, and the referenced locations, only apply where a smoke detector is being used to release a hold open device on an automatic-closing door.

Hope this helped and didn't create more confusion.


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## Markl_AHC (Nov 1, 2010)

HA! One geek to another...


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## LGreene (Nov 1, 2010)

Yes, I agree with you Mark (not about the geeky part).  There's nothing that says you have to have an automatic closing door...in my email to Daryl I mentioned the 10-second requirement as the only place I've ever seen anything about the closing speed (other than accessibility requirements).  If it's a delayed action closer, the 10-second rule wouldn't apply.  I guess unless you had a delayed action closer AND a smoke actuated hold-open, which is highly unlikely.


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