# Exterior exit within 10' of lot line - IBC 1024.3



## Angela (Apr 22, 2011)

I am working on a commercial site in the state of New York and need a second form of egress from a historical building in an historical district. The ideal solution is an exterior stairway in the back of the building but I am getting hung up on IBC Section 1024.3 Exit Discharge Location. It states that a stairway "shall be located at least 10' from adjacent lot lines and from other buildings on the same lot line unless the adjacent building exterior walls and openings are protected in accordance with Section 704 based on fire separation distance". Does this mean the stairway can be within 10' of the lot line as long as the neighboring building is protected? OR is the 10' setback sacred and the fire protection allowance applies only to buildings on the same lot line?


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## texasbo (Apr 22, 2011)

Angela, welcome to the forum. Strictly by IBC, the stair can't be within 10' of property line. However, you really should look at the IEBC, especially since it's a historic structure. There is a gentleman that goes by JBI who is an expert with the IEBC, and I'm sure he'll be around to give you some helpful advice soon.

Also, look at this thread: http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/showthread.php?4044-Fire-wall-to-protect-exterior-stair-parallel-and-close-to-property-line

Now you're going to see some posts in there next to a picture of a dog that's chewing on it's owner's dentures. Ignore those, seriously; they are meant to do nothing more than confuse the conversation.


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## High Desert (Apr 25, 2011)

texasbo, c'mon, don't discourage new people. We want them to come back.


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## globe trekker (Apr 25, 2011)

Angela,

Welcome to The Building Codes Forum!

From Section 3407, 2006 IBC:

*3407.1 Historic buildings.*

"The provisions of this code relating to the construction, repair, alteration, addition,

restoration and movement of structures, and change of occupancy shall not be

mandatory for historic buildings where such buildings are judged by the building

official to not constitute a distinct life safety hazard."

Recommend that you contact the Building Official,  or whomever is in charge in

the jurisdiction in question, and get their input.   Also, in some jurisdictions,

there are Historical Societies / Associations that may have some influence

over anything constructed to one of their historical structures.  As a

recommendation, contact them and get their input, ..in writing!

.


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## texasbo (Apr 25, 2011)

Comment deleted.


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## permitguy (Apr 25, 2011)

> Does this mean the stairway can be within 10' of the lot line as long as the neighboring building is protected?


Yes, the stairway can be within 10' of the lot line as long as the adjacent buildings exterior walls and openings are protected in accordance with 704.  In a historic district, that may be a tall order.  Even if the walls and openings are adequate, it may be difficult to determine that fact.

I agree with the others - talk to the building department before you get too far into this.  See what they are willing to accept, including the possibility of an alternate method to meet the intent.

Welcome to the board, and best of luck!


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## mtlogcabin (Apr 25, 2011)

> OR is the 10' setback sacred and the fire protection allowance applies only to buildings on the same lot line?


Correct and I recommend you follow globe trekker's advise. You may even look at....

3412.1 Compliance.

The provisions of this section are intended to maintain or increase the current degree of public safety, health and general welfare in existing buildings while permitting repair, alteration , addition and change of occupancy without requiring full compliance with Chapters 2 through 33, or Sections 3401.3, and 3403 through 3409, except where compliance with other provisions of this code is specifically required in this section.

.....base your case on the additional stair will increase public safety even though it may be less than 10 ft from the adjoining property.

And Welcome to the Board


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## globe trekker (Apr 25, 2011)

I hope that we haven't discouraged Angela by our banter.

texasbo,

Your link to the previous discussion on the Exterior Wall is much appreciated!  I

enjoyed the discussion and the "multi-page efforts" by all.

.


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## permitguy (Apr 25, 2011)

I'm home today (stalling on writing a paper for school).  What does the commentary say on this section?  I haven't had to apply this to a project (suburbia), but I have read this section to mean that everything after "unless" applied to both "10' from adjacent lot lines and from other buildings on the same lot."  For practical purposes, the presence of a lot line doesn't make the situation more or less dangerous.  If they already have protected walls and opening based on their proximity to the p/l, then we shouldn't let them reduce that level of protection in the future, so it's not as if we'd be creating a non-compliant situation with the stairway on the other property.

What am I missing?


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## texasbo (Apr 25, 2011)

permitguy - would the code allow a building to be built within 10' of the property line with unrated walls if there was a building on the other side with rated walls? No. For the same reason, strictly by Ch 10, neither can the stair be built within 10'.

Throughout the code, there are provisions based on the assumption that you can control what happens on your lot, but not on a separate lot.


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## permitguy (Apr 25, 2011)

I understand what you're saying.  I guess I don't find either interpretation to be particularly troubling in this case.  If holding to the strict interpretation offered, I'd be willing to consider an alternative, as I _can_ control what happens on the other lot.  If they want to add openings or replace windows, it would be subjected to review and approval based on its proximity to the p/l.

Like I said earlier, in the case of a historic district, this may all be irrelevant.

Angela, please let us know how it turns out.


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## High Desert (Apr 25, 2011)

texasbo, didn't you notice my winking smiley face? I was just kidding you for your comment about the dentures. I was actually on the grounf LMAO.


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## texasbo (Apr 25, 2011)

High desert: I didn't think you were serious; it didn't sound like something that would come from you. Internet communication's a funny thing.


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## JBI (Apr 25, 2011)

Angela, Welcome to the BB. Chapter 11 of the NYSEBC cotains some potentially useful provisions, but we would need more info about the project... Current and proposed occupancy would be very helpful,

*1101.3 Special occupancy exceptions. *Historic buildings used for purposes such as museums, libraries, exhibits and similar uses less than 3,500 square feet (325.5 m2) per floor and under four stories in height, shall be regulated as a Group B occupancy. Adequate means of egress shall be provided and shall, as applicable, include:

1. a means of maintaining doors in an open position to permit egress,2. a limit on building occupancy to an occupant load permitted by the means of egress capacity,3. a limit on occupancy of certain areas or floors, or4. supervision by a person knowledgeable in the emergency exiting procedures.The best advice so far was to contact the AHJ, a face-to-face on the site might prove very valuable and very informative. Please do let us know more...


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## Angela (May 26, 2011)

Hey Everyone -- thank you for the tips and even the banter! Already I have been illuminated much with this forum and I find I can really blow through some time with every visit. So here's the fallout from my exterior stair within 10'. The Regional State Architect shot it down on account of its proximity to the property line. However, I trumped the decision by finding a loophole in the 2010 Exisitng Buiding Code of NY State. Section 303 allows fire escapes where exterior stairs cannot be utilized due to lot lines limiting stair size. The fire escape dimension (22" wide) was a much less obtrusive exterior addition that needed approval from the planning commission / Historic Review Board. They granted approval, we fabricated and installed the stairs two weeks later. I will be getting more work from my client!!! Thanks for you help and I will be touching base more often.


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