# Is a Lift permitted as an accessible means of egress from a 2nd floor Assembly space?



## Karrie (Jun 29, 2020)

I am trying to determine if a lift is permitted as a substitute for an elevator as an accessible means of egress from the 2nd floor Assembly meeting space?  
The floor travel height is approx 18ft.
The tenant wants to locate a church assembly space on the second level and in leu of an elevator, install a lift within a shaft on the exterior of the existing building to provide accessible egress to the 2nd floor assembly.
The tenant claims to have seen lifts permitted to serve 2nd story level in numerous churches - but I cant find in the Code where lifts are described to replace elevators.


----------



## e hilton (Jun 29, 2020)

How is a lift in an enclosed shaft different from an elevator?   Sounds like the same thing.   Is this going to be like a residential elevator between 2 floors, like you used to see in expensive houses 30 yrs ago?


----------



## Karrie (Jun 29, 2020)

e hilton said:


> How is a lift in an enclosed shaft different from an elevator?   Sounds like the same thing.   Is this going to be like a residential elevator between 2 floors, like you used to see in expensive houses 30 yrs ago?



I'm assuming it is a platform with surrounding sidewalls (apprx 48in hgt) open above  - not an enclosed cab as in elevators.  The lift is enclosed within a shaft.  I cant explain to the tenant why this would be permitted in the applications he's supposedly seen them used at various churches.  I am hoping someone smarter than me can explain per the Code when an enclosed lift can be used for accessible MOE in leu of an elevator.


----------



## RLGA (Jun 29, 2020)

If it does not comply with ASME/ANSI A17.1, then it is not an elevator.

Platform lifts are permitted as an accessible means of egress (per Section 1009.5, 2018 IBC) if they are permitted as part of an accessible route per Section 1109.8 (2018 IBC) except for Item 10 (site constraints).


----------



## Karrie (Jun 29, 2020)

Karrie said:


> I'm assuming it is a platform with surrounding sidewalls (apprx 48in hgt) open above  - not an enclosed cab as in elevators.  The lift is enclosed within a shaft.  I cant explain to the tenant why this would be permitted in the applications he's supposedly seen them used at various churches.  I am hoping someone smarter than me can explain per the Code when an enclosed lift can be used for accessible MOE in leu of an elevator.



I see in IBC 2012 1007.5 Platform Lifts & 1007.5.1 Openness "Platform lifts on an accessible means of egress shall not be installed in a fully enclosed hoistway."
That indicates to me that the enclosed lift the tenant wants to use will not qualify as an accessible means of egress - right?


RLGA said:


> If it does not comply with ASME/ANSI A17.1, then it is not an elevator.
> 
> Platform lifts are permitted as an accessible means of egress (per Section 1009.5, 2018 IBC) if they are permitted as part of an accessible route per Section 1109.8 (2018 IBC) except for Item 10 (site constraints).


----------



## Karrie (Jun 29, 2020)

Karrie said:


> I see in IBC 2012 1007.5 Platform Lifts & 1007.5.1 Openness "Platform lifts on an accessible means of egress shall not be installed in a fully enclosed hoistway."
> That indicates to me that the enclosed lift the tenant wants to use will not qualify as an accessible means of egress - right?



Note 1007.5.1 Openness. 
Platform lifts on an accessible means of egress shall not be installed in a fully enclosed hoistway.

In this application, the client wants to (must) enclose the lift in a shaft in order to function on the exterior of the building. Therefore - a lift is NOT permitted as an accessible means of egress - correct?


----------



## classicT (Jun 29, 2020)

First and foremost, please review the differences in an accessible route and an accessible means of egress. Accessible routes are required by Ch. 11 and use ramps, lifts, etc. Accessible means of egress are required by Ch. 10, and a stairway can be an accessible means of egress.

Carrying on.... Platform lifts are typically adjacent to a stair. Not only does this just make sense, since both able-bodied and those that require assistance can use the same travel pathway, but it also puts able bodied persons near those that require assistance. In an emergency scenario, do you really want those with accessibility impairments to go towards a lift (the way they came in) and be isolated from the other building occupants? What happens if they become incapacitated or require assistance to operate the lift?


----------



## steveray (Jun 29, 2020)

*...Temporarily able bodied......


----------



## classicT (Jun 29, 2020)

RLGA said:


> Platform lifts are permitted as an accessible means of egress (per Section 1009.5, 2018 IBC) if they are permitted as part of an accessible route per Section 1109.8 (2018 IBC) except for Item 10 (site constraints).


As identified by Ron, a platform lift can be used as an accessible means of egress for conditions 1-9 of _IBC Section 1109.8._ However, given the described use, I do not believe that one of the conditions applies.

What you may be able to do however, is use the lift as a component of an accessible route via the provisions of IEBC 410.8.3. and A117.1-2009 Section 410. This gets a person requiring an accessible route in and out under normal circumstances. For emergency situations, a stairway per _IBC Section 1009.3_ is acceptable as an accessible means of egress.

*IBC 1009.5 Platform Lifts*
Platform lifts shall be permitted to serve as part of an _accessible means of egress _where allowed as part of a required _accessible route _in Section 1109.8 except for Item 10. Standby power for the platform lift shall be provided in accordance with Chapter 27.


*IBC 1109.8 Lifts*
Platform (wheelchair) lifts are permitted to be a part of a required _accessible route _in new construction where indicated in Items 1 through 10. Platform (wheelchair) lifts shall be installed in accordance with ASME A18.1.

An _accessible route _to a performing area and speaker platforms.
An _accessible route _to _wheelchair spaces _required to comply with the _wheelchair space _dispersion requirements of Sections 1108.2.2 through 1108.2.6.
An _accessible route _to spaces that are not open to the general public with an _occupant load _of not more than five.
An _accessible route _within an individual _dwelling unit _or _sleeping unit _required to be an _Accessible unit_, _Type A unit _or _Type B unit_.
An _accessible route _to jury boxes and witness stands; raised courtroom stations including judges' benches, clerks'stations, bailiffs' stations, deputy clerks' stations and court reporters' stations; and to depressed areas such as the well of the court.
An _accessible route _to load and unload areas serving amusement rides.
An _accessible route _to play components or soft contained play structures.
An _accessible route _to team or player seating areas serving _areas of sport activity_.
An _accessible route _instead of gangways serving recreational boating facilities and fishing piers and platforms.
An _accessible route _where existing exterior _site _constraints make use of a _ramp _or elevator infeasible.

*IEBC 410.8.3 Platform Lifts*
Platform (wheelchair) lifts complying with ICC A117.1 and installed in accordance with ASME A18.1 shall be permitted as a component of an accessible route.​


----------



## RLGA (Jun 29, 2020)

As Ty J. pointed out, I doubt your use will qualify it for an accessible route. You might be able to use Condition 10 for use as an accessible route, but that would prohibit its use as an accessible means of egress; thus, you would have to use the stairs.

Even if you use it as part of an accessible route, you'll be hard-pressed to find a platform lift that will travel 18 ft. (216 inches). Some manufacturers make enclosures for their lifts that can be exterior.

Since you cannot use it as an accessible means of egress, just FYI, the 2015 and 2018 IBC editions deleted the "openness" requirement for platform lifts used as an accessible means of egress.


----------

