# Code for drop ceiling removsl



## Josh@sip (Jan 20, 2020)

Hi all
  New to the forum   
My company started renting a commercial space in jersey city NJ. It’s a basement in two story building and is about 13k sq ft.  The space used to be a school and there is old grimey ceiling tiles throughout.  We are currently renovating the space to be private offices.  We would like to remove the drop ceiling in the main common area of the space which is about 2300 sq ft.   The rest of the ceiling tiles throughout the property would remain.  One thing I’ve noticed that I hadn’t seen anywhere else before was that there is a dual sprinkler system. One below the drop ceiling and one above the drop ceiling.  The space above the drop ceiling is about 2 ft and completely dry walled throughout.  I have two questions.  Do I need a permit to remove the drop ceiling?  Is there some sort of fire code violation by removing the drop ceiling ?  I asked a man at the city zoning office and he said that removing the drop ceiling is  cosmetic and doesn’t need a permit. I spoke with a fire marshal who said if there is drywall above the ceiling tile then I’m okay in terms of fire code but both conversations were via phone and I can’t find anything in writing about it. I don’t want to just take their word for it because if it turns out to be a problem I’d have nothing to prove my case.  If anyone has any ideas or references to specific codes, I’d greatly appreciate it!


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## cda (Jan 20, 2020)

Welcome

Without seeing it cannot give good answer.

If you are able to take some pictures make them a link and post the link.

a few thoughts,,

I cannot speak to energy and insulation needs.

For the fire sprinkler

If before you removed tiles, there were sprinklers below the ceiling and above the ceiling,,,
At some point or still, there was combustible material, normally wood up there.

If you remove all the ceiling tiles, a fire sprinkler company needs to come in and remove the sprinklers, that were below the drop ceiling.

And make sure the higher ones are spaced and located properly


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## Josh@sip (Jan 20, 2020)

cda said:


> Welcome
> 
> Without seeing it cannot give good answer.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your quick reply!  Why would the other sprinkler need to be removed?  There are about 23 of them so how much would that cost to remove?

 Here are a few images for your reference.


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## cda (Jan 20, 2020)

1. Does not meet sprinkler standard, sprinkler to far down from deck/ceiling.

2. if one goes of could put water on the other and not activate.

3. Could open to many sprinklers, messing with hydraulics.

Cost up to sprinkler company.
Should be able to remove the drop piping and install plug.

Still need coverage checked, for sprinklers above.

Do not let a plumber do this, call fire sprinkler company!!!


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## Builder Bob (Jan 20, 2020)

Cost varies by region - however, the lower sprinkler heads would need to be removed with the upright fire sprinkler heads remaining in the exposed areas under the gypsum board above.
Problems could occur with cold spots being created by the lower fire sprinkler heads activating and not allowing the other sprinkler heads to activate. 

More likely, if the fire is large enough (i.e. arson) the duel sprinkler heads would quickly overwhelm the available water supply to make the fire sprinkler system ineffective.

In essence, the fire sprinkler system is like a garden hose that is designed for a certain number of holes (fire Sprinkler heads opened )to be in the hose and still provide adequate water source for pressure and operation of the sprayer at the end of the hose. To many holes, and the sprayer doesn't work like it is supposed to - everybody has had an old garden hose that they finally replaced after it quite working correctly. 

The gypsum board indicated fire protective structure and it has to remain in order to provide the required fire separation between floors that was required at time of construction.


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## ICE (Jan 20, 2020)

Paint the tiles and t-bar.  It would certainly be an unattractive mess without the t-bar ceiling hiding the wire and cable.


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## Josh@sip (Jan 20, 2020)

Builder Bob said:


> Cost varies by region - however, the lower sprinkler heads would need to be removed with the upright fire sprinkler heads remaining in the exposed areas under the gypsum board above.
> Problems could occur with cold spots being created by the lower fire sprinkler heads activating and not allowing the other sprinkler heads to activate.
> 
> More likely, if the fire is large enough (i.e. arson) the duel sprinkler heads would quickly overwhelm the available water supply to make the fire sprinkler system ineffective.
> ...



So its sounding like as long as I fix the sprinkler system, I can remove the drop ceiling?


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## Josh@sip (Jan 20, 2020)

ICE said:


> Paint the tiles and t-bar.  It would certainly be an unattractive mess without the t-bar ceiling hiding the wire and cable.



We would be cleaning up the cabling by running conduit and cable trays for wiring.


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## cda (Jan 20, 2020)

Josh@sip said:


> So its sounding like as long as I fix the sprinkler system, I can remove the drop ceiling?




I would say yes, fire sprinkler wise, get a fire sprinkler company to do it.

Cannot talk to energy or insulation needs.


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## Builder Bob (Jan 20, 2020)

Be careful what you uncover -------- You may have to repair any areas missing gypsum or have been damaged from age old water leaks etc.


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## Josh@sip (Jan 20, 2020)

Builder Bob said:


> Be careful what you uncover -------- You may have to repair any areas missing gypsum or have been damaged from age old water leaks etc.




I've checked it out a bit and looks good.  Had an architect check it out and he said it was definitely one of the cleanest plenum spaces that he had seen.

I just had a fire sprinkler company come to check it out and they quoted be $2575 to drain the water and cap 23 sprinkler heads.  They also said that the system is a wet system.  Does this sound right?  That price was way higher than I anticipated.


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## cda (Jan 20, 2020)

Wet system equals water in all the piping, plus do not let the pipe freeze

the price seems cheap


You are mainly paying for time, just like a mechanic 

I do advise people get a few quotes there are high end companies and low end

Than there are union ones, not sure what your area is?


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## Josh@sip (Jan 21, 2020)

cda said:


> Wet system equals water in all the piping, plus do not let the pipe freeze
> 
> the price seems cheap
> 
> ...




SInce this is a wet system, does this still have to be capped?


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## Pcinspector1 (Jan 21, 2020)

Using the photos as a learning tool: 
1) MC cable should not be allowed to lay on the grid ceiling system and 2) we do not let them tie the ceiling grid to the sprinkler piping.

Also when you remove the CT your acoustics will change for your private office spaces.


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## Rick18071 (Jan 21, 2020)

Your photo shows that there is wiring and lights in the suspended ceiling. You definitely need a permit because there will be electrical work.


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## ADAguy (Jan 21, 2020)

It is a basement, sprinklers always required.


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## Josh@sip (Jan 21, 2020)

Rick18071 said:


> Your photo shows that there is wiring and lights in the suspended ceiling. You definitely need a permit because there will be electrical work.



Yeah I would get a permit for the electric.  I'm already in the process of doing that but in terms of the actual drop ceiling removal - because its cosmetic my understanding is that a permit is not needed for its removal.


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## Josh@sip (Jan 21, 2020)

Pcinspector1 said:


> Using the photos as a learning tool:
> 1) MC cable should not be allowed to lay on the grid ceiling system and 2) we do not let them tie the ceiling grid to the sprinkler piping.
> 
> Also when you remove the CT your acoustics will change for your private office spaces.



Yeah I knew that was a problem.  Thats actually how the space came.


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## Josh@sip (Jan 21, 2020)

ADAguy said:


> It is a basement, sprinklers always required.




I'm not looking to remove all of the sprinklers.  There are two tiers of sprinklers -  one below drop ceiling - one above drop ceiling below the drywall  I would just be capping the first tier if I remove the drop ceiling and if its required by code


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## classicT (Jan 21, 2020)

ADAguy said:


> It is a basement, sprinklers always required.


And where does that requirement come from?

If you are attempting to indicate _IBC Section 405.3_, take a look at _Section 405.1_. Sprinklers are required in buildings more than 30 feet below the finished floor of the lowest level of exit discharge.


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