# Gazebo = Engineering Required?



## Darren Emery (Oct 13, 2011)

We're a bit concerned about the ability of this porch structure to resist the wind loads.  We did not get called to inspect column to beam connections.  Would you require a PE sign off, or just need to see enough to make you "comfortable?"

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## fatboy (Oct 13, 2011)

PE signoff........unless they can provide attachment in the prescribed in the IRC, and prove it to you.


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## High Desert (Oct 13, 2011)

I would definitely require a PE. I would think the columns would have to be designed to resist any lateral forces through the structure.


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## ICE (Oct 13, 2011)

PE sign off and then show me the connection.  That's the first time I have seen lap siding being installed from the top down.  I don't see a roof to wall transition with flashing and counter-flashing.


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## globe trekker (Oct 14, 2011)

Are those 4" x 4" treated posts? How is everything attached & anchored? Agree with ICE, a PE

"sign off" AND to physically see all connections, ..if allowed to by the "powers-that-be".

.


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## Min&Max (Oct 14, 2011)

Have you addressed this with the contractor yet? If not, I would just ask them how they put it together. If you have, then you have given them to much time to formulate an answer that may "enhance" the actual method of attachment.

Probably not installing siding from the top down. I would guess they started at the low point and sided up and brick will be installed on lower, unsided wall.


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## brudgers (Oct 14, 2011)

High Desert said:
			
		

> I would definitely require a PE. I would think the columns would have to be designed to resist any lateral forces through the structure.


   Lateral forces are resisted by the stiffest element in a flexible diaphragm design.  Walls tend to be much stiffer than columns and therefore, moment frames are rarely used for wood framed residential construction...which is what would be required.  Uplift of course is another matter.


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## brudgers (Oct 14, 2011)

Darren Emery said:
			
		

> We're a bit concerned about the ability of this porch structure to resist the wind loads.  We did not get called to inspect column to beam connections.  Would you require a PE sign off, or just need to see enough to make you "comfortable?"


   So long as there is an adequate load path for uplift, I don't see much reason to be concerned. Given the small area, large number of columns and the relatively low wind speeds in your area, there's not really a lot of load on each connection.  One could probably toenail the thing together adequately, but if the connections are like those of the other porch columns it will be overkill - assuming of course those other columns provide an adequate connections for the larger roof areas they hold down.


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## Pcinspector1 (Oct 14, 2011)

ICE, brick masons or rock-man runnin' a bit late, I bet!

Connection probably not on building plans for review!

RT15 connectors?

pc1


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## High Desert (Oct 14, 2011)

I don't know of any prescriptive provision of the code that would even come close to telling you what you need. If it doesn't meet the prescriptive provisions of the code, a design is required.


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## tbz (Oct 15, 2011)

Darren,

Have you asked the contractor for the manufactures installation and data paperwork.

Also proof of the columns ability to hold the weight placed upon them.

From your pictures they look like fiberglass molded columns, they are made in 2 models, one which is designed to have a center support and the column is nothing more than a facade.

The second is structural for which the manufacture publishes a maximum load and up left and also attachment designs.

We have run in to a few projects lately were the fiberglass columns were nailed, one was even notched were (2) 2x10 sat inside the top 3 inches and 2 nails from each side like a "U".

The problem was the column split a part like a dry log on top, because they needed to be drilled and attached with screws , plates and clips and I don't mean the left over beer cans and sheet rock screws(for real).

Asking for the PE is not unreasonable IMO, We have done more than a few of these installs if it were not for the roof line it would be free standing.  Pretty much each time the drawings gave us no direction and it was a combination of talking with the column manufacture, our PE and then taking in to concern how and if the guards were going to affect the installation and column loads.

Not sure of the type of guard they are installing, but it will affect if attached or even if guards can be attached to those columns.


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## BSSTG (Oct 17, 2011)

Pe?

absolutely, as it is attached to house. But then I'm in TX where TDI rules apply. We also have a change coming up in our ordinance requiring windstorm engineering on any structure over 250 sq ft.

BS


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## Paul Sweet (Oct 17, 2011)

As Brudgers said, the floor & roof/ceiling diaphragms should resist the lateral loads.  Uplift would be my main concern.  If the fiberglass columns are shells, a 4x4 with metal tie straps or post caps should be adequate.  If they are structural fiberglass (the gravity load would be only a few hundred pounds each) a chain or aircraft cable inside a couple of them would be adequate.


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