# GFCI's in sheds



## chris kennedy (Jan 10, 2013)

Was asked to call an inspector this afternoon about a shed our guys wired. Shed was pre-wired by manufacture with one GFCI rec and a duplex one would assume was on the load side yet was not.

His question to me was do shed rec's need GFCI protection. Reading 210.8(A)(2);

(2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor

located at or below grade level not intended as habitable

rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas,

and areas of similar use

If shed is on a 4" slab and shed floor is supported on 4×4's would you consider that on grade level?

Thanks


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## Pcinspector1 (Jan 10, 2013)

chris,

IMO, grade is grade level, installing blocks or 4x4's raises the shed up off of grade/the ground. I would not consider the shed on 4x4's at or below grade! With runners under the shed it can be moved unless zoning prevents the move.

pc1


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## north star (Jan 10, 2013)

*= = =*



Chris,

By the letter of the Article, ...I would also say "no, not at grade level".

By the intent of the Article to provide GFCI protection for all accessory

type structures, I would say "yes, it is close enough to grade level" to

require GFCI protection.

In your viewpoint, what does the "at grade" location have to do with

protection of persons in an accessory bldg.?



*% % %*


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## Gregg Harris (Jan 10, 2013)

Grade; the finished ground level adjoining the building at all exterior walls.

Above grade if on 4X4', pad could also be above, bellow or at grade.


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## ICE (Jan 10, 2013)

> If shed is on a 4" slab and shed floor is supported on 4×4's would you consider that on grade level?


yes...........


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## Pcinspector1 (Jan 10, 2013)

Theres also a shed or accessory structure under 120 sf exemption R105.2, would that also need a GFCI outlet or is that size structure exempt from providing the GFCI?

pc1


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## fatboy (Jan 10, 2013)

Exempt from a required permit does not mean exempt from code requirements. R105.2.

I would consider the shed "at grade".


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## chris kennedy (Jan 10, 2013)

north star said:
			
		

> *= = =*
> 
> Chris,
> 
> ...


Nothing really, just something the inspector and I were throwing around. When I got home I looked for an IRC def of 'grade level' but found only the def of grade Gregg posted above. I'm thinking the "intent" of 210.8(A)(2) is similar to 1st floor level.


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## Pcinspector1 (Jan 10, 2013)

I'm a little conserned that I should be issuing electrical permits now for 120sf sheds being dropped in the back yard setting on 4x4's? HD's gonna love me!

pc1


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## gfretwell (Jan 10, 2013)

I think that if this is a wood floor 4" above grade it might be hold your nose legal without the GFCI but I would certainly appeal to the contractor to swing that other receptacle over to the "load" side of the GFCI since it is already there.


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## jwelectric (Jan 11, 2013)

My question is who wired it? Were they lisensed and did it get inspected by them?

Sounds like a lot of laws are being broken.


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## Sifu (Jan 11, 2013)

Just to be clear, is this a 4" slab poured on grade, with 4x4 sleepers on top, then a floor system on top of the sleepers?


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## ICE (Jan 11, 2013)

jwelectric said:
			
		

> My question is who wired it? Were they lisensed and did it get inspected by them?Sounds like a lot of laws are being broken.


book'em Dano


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## moose (Jan 11, 2013)

Gentlemen, I think we are splitting hairs over "at Grade". If the building is an accessory structure on the ground(Not in the trees) whether it be on a slab, on a wood foundation or on piers, I think that we need to require GFCI protection for all receptacles. The receptacles are there for everything from plugging in an electric trimmer to a vacuum cleaner for your car out in the driveway

Just my opinion, but dont we owe at least that level of protection to the people that we are inspecting for?


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## north star (Jan 11, 2013)

*$ $*







> "Gentlemen, I think we are splitting hairs over "at Grade". ....If the building is an accessory structure onthe ground ( Not in the trees ) whether it be on a slab, on a wood foundation or on piers, I think that
> 
> we need to require GFCI protection for all receptacles.........The receptacles are there for everything from
> 
> ...


Some will agree with your sentiments and some will not!......Seemingly, ...these daysif there isn't clearly worded, precise language addressing every little possible

situation or application of the codes, then some attorney or contractor or

homeowner will take you to task to "show it to them in the code book".

Unfortunately, ...in some locations opinions and sentiments do not count for much

and thus, the requirement for protection from [ potential ] shock cannot be

enforced.



*$ $*


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## gfretwell (Jan 11, 2013)

JW does have an interesting point. This sounds like one of those prefab sheds that comes in on a flat bed. Who does inspect them? I know there is a process in Florida and they have to be engineered, each design approved and there is some oversight in the assembly process but that may not be true everywhere.

I do believe that since there was a GFCI in the unit, it was supposed to control all receptacles and there was a wiring error. If the mastered plans submitted to the state showed both outlets on the GFCI you deal with it like anything else not built to plan.

I still think that in a practical sense you could just ask the EC to move 2 wires, for the sake of safety and get on with your life.


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## chris kennedy (Jan 11, 2013)

jwelectric said:
			
		

> My question is who wired it?


Pre-wired by the manufacture. Inspector stated that it did have the Miami Dade County approval and UL plates on it.



			
				Sifu said:
			
		

> Just to be clear, is this a 4" slab poured on grade, with 4x4 sleepers on top, then a floor system on top of the sleepers?


Correct.



			
				moose said:
			
		

> Just my opinion, but dont we owe at least that level of protection to the people that we are inspecting for?


Don't you also owe it to the contractor to inspect as per the adopted codes wording?



			
				gfretwell said:
			
		

> I still think that in a practical sense you could just ask the EC to  move 2 wires, for the sake of safety and get on with your life.


Let me make something perfectly clear here. The duplex has been moved to the load side by our guy today. All will sleep well tonight including myself.

Any chance we could get back to the original question??? What is 'grade level'?

Thanks


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## fatboy (Jan 11, 2013)

_*GRADE. *__The finished ground level adjoining the building at all exterior walls._

Since the definition in the IRC does not give much direction, I would go to;

_*R201.3 Terms defined in other codes. *_

_Where terms are not defined in this code such terms shall have meanings ascribed to them as in other code publications of the International Code Council._

Then going to the IBC;

_*GRADE PLANE.*__ A reference plane representing the average of finished ground level adjoining the building at exterior walls. Where the finished ground level slopes away from the exterior walls, the reference plane shall be established by the lowest points within the area between the building and the lot line or, where the lot line is more than 6 feet (1829 mm) from the building, between the building and a point 6 feet (1829 mm) from the building. _

And then;

_*STORY ABOVE GRADE PLANE.*__ Any story having its finished floor surface entirely above grade plane, or in which the finished surface of the floor next above is: _

_1. More than 6 feet (1829 mm) above grade plane; or2. More than 12 feet (3658 mm) above the finished ground level at any point._

So, this shed does not sound like a story above grade plane, so by default it must be "at grade".


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## ICE (Jan 11, 2013)

chris kennedy said:
			
		

> What is 'grade level'?


Ground floor.


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## jwelectric (Jan 11, 2013)

ICE said:
			
		

> Ground floor.


ditto                                                                           .


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## David Henderson (Jan 14, 2013)

Regardless at grade or not it will require a electrical permit, shed pre wired or not, power will have to be run to it, shed size may be exempt from permit but not the electrical.


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## moose (Jan 14, 2013)

Chris and North star, you are both right, I guess what I am trying to say is in my interpretation, this install is at grade level. I will be the first one to tell a contractor when he doesnt have to do something as well as when he does. I tell them all the time that the code is your freind and can save you money if you know it well. That being said, install is grade- ground floor as ICE calls it. if you dont agree, then it can be appealed to the state board, if the state says different then so be it, you win


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## moose (Jan 14, 2013)

Also if this is a modular building, inspected by a third party for use in the state where it is installed, then we dont have much to say about the install anyway, not our jurisdiction


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## Francis Vineyard (Jan 14, 2013)

IRC does not require GFCI if the shed is "finished"; NEC removed this condition in 1996 edition.

*E3902.2 Garage and accessory building receptacles. *

All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-ampere receptacles installed in garages and grade-level portions of unfinished accessory buildings used for storage or work areas shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

Francis


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## steveray (Jan 14, 2013)

FB nailed it.......He made the "grade"!..........(Rimshot)


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## gfretwell (Jan 14, 2013)

I do think the NEC is somewhat in-congruent in it's application of the GFCI rules. They require GFCIs in sheds and unfinished basements but when they are finished, they don't.

You assume they are talking about bare concrete floors but if I have a terrazzo floor in a slab on grade house, I don't need a GFCI and I can assure you, if you are barefooted, you are well grounded.


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