# Exterior Food Service Counter



## CADGURU (Sep 18, 2017)

I am working on a historic building project that was destroyed in a fire. 
The original buildings footprint and exterior are being used (brick) but the owner wants to relocate an existing walk-up food service counter that sits on the exterior of the building to a new location.(different wall) 

This existing service window is not historic and will not meet code. If we replace this unit how will the ada requirements affect the height and depth of the counter? (may not be an option due to site conditions)

Inside the newly renovated restaurant space there will be an accessible route to an alternate pick-up location that will have an ada service height counter, but accessible pick-up and purchase will not be available outside.

Should we make provisions for an accessible height counter on the exterior of the building or is the alternate pick-up location ok? 

project is in Michigan. 

thanks


----------



## cda (Sep 18, 2017)

Welcome

How did you find this great forum??


----------



## CADGURU (Sep 18, 2017)

cda said:


> Welcome
> 
> How did you find this great forum??



thanks, i have found answers on here before thru google. seems to have some great opinions, and active users.


----------



## cda (Sep 18, 2017)

CADGURU said:


> thanks, i have found answers on here before thru google. seems to have some great opinions, and active users.




Oh yea great opinions !!

Just give it a day or two for replies


----------



## classicT (Sep 18, 2017)

IMHO an accessible counter would have to be provided. Even if an accessible counter is provided inside, it would not afford those with handicaps the same opportunities if the exterior counter was not provided with accessible features. Being that it is an entirely new counter, it should conform with present code (may suggest that they leave the old counter as is, but any adjustment to size of window would kick me back to requiring accessible features).

If your state uses ICC A117.1, the applicable code section is 904.


----------



## ADAguy (Sep 18, 2017)

Spot on Ty.
Was building burned to the ground or is the exterior shell intact?


----------



## Msradell (Sep 18, 2017)

I certainly agree with TJ, if a new outdoor counter is built it definitely is required to comply with ADA standards. Just providing a alternative pickup point that's in compliance would not satisfy the requirements. Probably even if you used the existing exterior service window you have to comply as part of the rebuilding.

What is the reason that the owner of the building doesn't want to fully comply?


----------



## CADGURU (Sep 19, 2017)

ADAguy said:


> Spot on Ty.
> Was building burned to the ground or is the exterior shell intact?



the exterior brick walls will be reused but the majority of the exterior will be new construction.


----------



## CADGURU (Sep 19, 2017)

Msradell said:


> I certainly agree with TJ, if a new outdoor counter is built it definitely is required to comply with ADA standards. Just providing a alternative pickup point that's in compliance would not satisfy the requirements. Probably even if you used the existing exterior service window you have to comply as part of the rebuilding.
> 
> What is the reason that the owner of the building doesn't want to fully comply?



the owner want to save (cost) and the ada exterior elevation does not work with the interior layout.


----------



## ADAguy (Sep 19, 2017)

Its a design issue, redesign it! No excuse.


----------



## Msradell (Sep 19, 2017)

CADGURU said:


> the owner want to save (cost) and the ada exterior elevation does not work with the interior layout.



Unfortunately, saving costs that 1 of the criteria that the ADA will allow you to avoid complying because of. I can't believe that complying in this case would cost that much or would take that much effort.

I don't believe you mentioned what state you are in but you probably ought to be ready for ADA lawsuits as soon as the project is complete if you don't comply. Obviously this is more likely in some states than others however.


----------



## Francis Vineyard (Sep 20, 2017)

I'll venture it's this hotel: Historic South Lyon Hotel will be rebuilt from ground up


----------



## ADAguy (Sep 20, 2017)

in excess of 50% replacement, build to current code.


----------



## Pcinspector1 (Sep 20, 2017)

The new location is new construction, needs to meet the requirements of current code. Is the designer in your state required to stamp his work?


----------

