# Building Safety Department under Fire Department



## Uncle Bob (Mar 23, 2010)

In most AHJs I'm familar with; the Building Official and Building Safety Department is under Community Development.

I have heard that in many jurisdictions; the Building Safety Department is under the Fire Department or Fire Marshal's Office.

Do ya'll know of any jurisdictions that are within the Fire Department?  If so, does that make the Inspector's part of the Fire Department?

Uncle Bob


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## Paul Sweet (Mar 23, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

At one time Charlottesville, Virginia had the building dept. under the fire dept.  I don't know if they still do.


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## texasbo (Mar 23, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

There are a couple in my area. Building Inspection is a division in the overall department, so yes, in the cases I'm familiar with, they are technically employees of the FD. They are not however, civil service, as are most uniformed employees of FD.


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## texas transplant (Mar 23, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

Familar with a couple of cities that building is under fire department.   They work like texasbo said.   Building Inspection Division of the Fire Department.  Building Official answers to the Fire Chief.  Fire Marshal office another division of the Fire Dept. They answer to Fire Chief also.

Inspectors were not members of the sworn Fire Department.  Both situations seemed to have lots of retired firemen as inspectors though.


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## jpranch (Mar 23, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

Don't know of any and may the Grace of the good Lord spare me the day.


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## Inspector Gift (Mar 24, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

:lol: LOL, ... I am with Jim on this!


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## Mac (Mar 24, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

City of Cortland NY Codes is headed up by the FD, building & zoning work under the Chief.


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## FM William Burns (Mar 24, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

JP,

We’re not that bad :lol:

UB,

Ours use to be that way but was a separate division and was only supervised by the Chief since there was no administrative head for the Building Department.  The ones I know of in our state (4) are just administered by the FD but are not technically FD employees.  The intent for this function is so we can all get along, on-stop shopping and greater communications amongst enforcement officials......................what a concept


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## Coug Dad (Mar 24, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

As a design professional, it really does not matter except that I would like to see it consilodated one way or the other.  Nothing is more frustrating than having the Building official say one thing and the FM another.  In our jurisdiction, the BO enforces IBC and the FM enforces NFPA.  Lots of conflicts.  Applying the more restrictive provision in each individual case results in redundancy and extra costs.  It would be nice to have a single source to resolve issues or rule on alternative methods requests.


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 24, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

We where under the FD until 2005. Chief was strictly administrative Inspectors where not FD personal, different unions and retirement systems. Now we are under the Planning Department. Budget cuts eliminated the Fire Prevention program and personell. All previous FD duties related to plan reviews, prevention inspections etc have been assigned to the Building Department. We receive technical direction from the Fire Chief's office as related to enforcement of Fire Department equipment access, and related Fire Department policies. Been operating this way since Oct 2009 no major problems so far.


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## AegisFPE (Mar 25, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

Again, Coug Dad has taken the letters right out of my keyboard; well put.


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## fatboy (Mar 25, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

We have worked very closely with our FM ofiice for the past 6-8 years, coordinating response so that we we in agreement on projects.

We did so well that a couple years ago we started helping out with fire business inspections. Did so well with that, last year they sent 2 fire inspectors back to the line, so now we are training up to do all fire inspections that the FM sends to us.

We will actually be housed in the same office in just a few months.(we're only across the hall now) The FM reports to the Chief, I report to the Community Dev. Director, the joint unit is referred to as the Building Safety Unit.

So far seems to be working well.


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## CornFieldCode (Mar 25, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

Do the building inspectors get Barcol loungers too? :lol:

Sorry, FMWB, I just could not resist.  I will do penance in Code Purgatory I'm sure.


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## fatboy (Mar 25, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

CFC.....you have fire inspectors confused with firefighters.....i


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## FM William Burns (Mar 25, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

CFC,

Spent half of my lunch break in one today


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## peach (Mar 25, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

Been under both; hated both.. the building department should be a stand alone department.

Community Development doesn't have the "police power" that the FD usually does.

Fire Department usually restricts what they "delegate" to the building department.. but since public/life safety if the ultimate goal.. a better fit.

It sucks...


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## jpranch (Mar 25, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

We used to be under Community Development (zoning. barf). That REALLY stank! We are now under the department of engineering. This has worked out very well and seem to be a much better fit.


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## Uncle Bob (Mar 25, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

Thanks, Ya'll,

I really appreciate the responses.  The information may become very useful to me.

Uncle Bob


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## Code Neophyte (Mar 26, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department



> We used to be under Community Development (zoning. barf). That REALLY stank! We are now under the department of engineering. This has worked out very well and seem to be a much better fit.We used to be under Community Development (zoning. barf). That REALLY stank! We are now under the department of engineering. This has worked out very well and seem to be a much better fit.


Aren't zoning and building inexorably linked, though?  The stated "intent" of the International Zoning Code (which I don't believe anyone has ever adopted) is to "..safeguard the health, property, and public welfare by controlling the design, location, use or occupancy of all buildings and structures..."  If this aptly represents the purpose and intent of zoning, then I would think they are hand and glove.  No?


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## jpranch (Mar 26, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

You are right. The building department and zoning are more or less joined at the hip. My point is that at least in this jurisdiction we have a much better fit being under engineering. More or less building and engineering speak the same laungage.

I'll say it stright, I'd rather slam my head into a meat grinder then to work as a zoning adminstrator.  :roll:


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 26, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

Zoning codes are more visionary, PUD's, CUP's, Special Exceptions, Variances etc.

Building codes are more regulatory


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## jpranch (Mar 26, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

Visionary? I've heard zoning called a lot of things but that is a new one on me!  :lol:

Subjective, irregular, (not enough fiber I guess) creative (like defining what is a side, back or front yard) to approve or disapprove depending on the mood their in).

Sketch plat, prelimnary plat, interum plat, submitted plat, near final plat, final plat,commercial site review, development review for commercial, PUD's, CUP's, Special Exceptions, Variances (Better catch them on a good day for the last two) etc. . Could there be any more steps added??? Abd this is just a few examples.  :roll:


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## Coug Dad (Mar 26, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

My experience is that changes to the prescriptive zoning or land use codes require an ordinance adopted and approved by the City Council and Mayor.  The Building Code authorizes, and actually instructs, the Building Official to consider and approve alternate methods.  The building code is much more flexible and, dare I say it, progressive than the  typical zoning code.  Building technology changes faster than the typical 3 year code cycle can accomodate.  Basic zoning principles don't really change.


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## Uncle Bob (Mar 26, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

Thanks,

I know about zoning.

In most AHJs I'm familar with; the Building Official and Building Safety Department is under Community Development.

I have heard that in many jurisdictions; the Building Safety Department is under the Fire Department or Fire Marshal's Office.

Do ya'll know of any jurisdictions where Building Inspection Departments are within the Fire Department?

If not yours; would you provide name of Municipality and State?

Uncle Bob


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## incognito (Mar 29, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

I have seen what happens to the building department when it gets taken over by the fire department. The fire guys impose their will upon the building department and the consequences for not following without questions is the unemployment line. Under no circumstances should a building department allow itself to be part of the fire department.


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## Code Neophyte (Mar 29, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

Here's one from the top of my head, UB:

(By the way, sorry for the Zoning hijack / sidetrack)

http://ci.champaign.il.us/departments/fire/


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## ewenme (Mar 29, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

My daughter and son-in-law live in Champaign, IL. They built an addition to their home. Paid for the permits. Not much for inspections. When he had questions the son-in-law called me. They are moving out of Champaign in the near future, to Mahomet [out in the county] where things are worse... pay for the permit, no plan review, no inspections... and people think 'out west it's dangerous'?


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## Alias (Mar 30, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

Building Department is part of Public Works here.  My boss is the Director of Public Works and also the Planning Director.  Because of him, and my flexibility, I am doing minor planning duties (admin) which is keeping me employed at 3/4 time.  I have fire department questions, I go ask the Fire Marshal.  Being small has it's advantages if everyone cooperates.

Sue, hmmmm..........which hat now?


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## Uncle Bob (Mar 30, 2010)

Re: Building Safety Department under Fire Department

Code Neo,

No problem   

Thanks for the link,

Uncle Bob


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## Danielle (Nov 8, 2010)

Yes building safety department will come under fire department. The Building and Safety Department saves lives, but rarely gets the credit as policeman and firemen rush to the rescue. Improving building safety with photo luminescent markings and safety signage is affordable, and requires no consultation fees.


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## incognito (Nov 8, 2010)

It would be fun to see a jurisdiction put the fire department under the Building Safety Dept. I'm guessing the whining and gnashing of teeth by the fire chief would be deafening with their moral plummeting to unimaginable lows.


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## RJJ (Nov 9, 2010)

incognito: Lmao!

In the 4 ahj's I handle 2 I am the FM. Two I am not. One in particular I want that way just for the second set of eyes. We seem in all places to work very well together. What ever the case may be, I believe it should be equal with respect for each other. The codes are two pronged. Structural on the one side and Fire protection on the other. The underlining of both is life safety plain and simple.

Now we have green, energy and a bunch of others tossed in. Maybe the best thing would be to have both the fire and building under a new growing green department. That would settle all the fights between Building and Fire cause they would have a new master.


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## Yankee (Nov 9, 2010)

incognito said:
			
		

> I have seen what happens to the building department when it gets taken over by the fire department. The fire guys impose their will upon the building department and the consequences for not following without questions is the unemployment line. Under no circumstances should a building department allow itself to be part of the fire department.


I don't disagree, but the BO can be kicked to the curb just as easily by the Director of Planning/Development, the Town Manager, or the Town Councilmen.


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## texasbo (Nov 9, 2010)

RJJ said:
			
		

> incognito: Lmao! Now we have green, energy and a bunch of others tossed in. Maybe the best thing would be to have both the fire and building under a new growing green department.


I have no interest in supervising FD, but I so want to be in charge of the Green Department.


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## Uncle Bob (Nov 9, 2010)

GREEN CODE DEPARTMENT?!

RJJ and Texasbo, should have their tongues cut out and feed to them; lol.

Code Neo,

No problem with the highjack; I found out three days after I started that I'm the "Zoning Officer" and my immediate "*Supervisors*" are the Stormwater Manager, Code Enforcement Officer, Mayor, and Part-time City Planner.

Minimum time for issuing a shed permit is about 7 days.

All permits must be  inspected and initialed by the Mayor, Stormwater Manager, and City Planner before being issued.  No place for my signature; but, it is my responsibility.  Can you spell gopher?

I would love to be under the Fire Chief right now,

Uncle Bob


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## TJacobs (Nov 9, 2010)

The two entities should work together routinely.  It is, after all, supposed to be about building safety...


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## Jobsaver (Nov 9, 2010)

I expect that in as little as one year, if you stay put, you will be able to look back and see to a significant degree how you have made it your own. Builders will use anchor bolts. There will be a place on the permit application for your approval. And, there will be numerous other influences and contributions made. I think you are a servant-minded employee UB, but I really don't see you as the type of person who is ever really under anybody. The authority of knowledge is at least as legitimate as the authority of position.


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## Architect1281 (Nov 9, 2010)

Building Safety should be under Fire Department

Somebody has to be strong enough to hold those guys up?

Ok I'm sorry but it was way too easy!


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## FM William Burns (Nov 9, 2010)

Wow, lost track of this one after CFC's lazy boy comment    Anyway, building inspectors and fire inspectors should always work together since we evaluate safety measures in various means and hopefully similar to serve all interests.

I've seen it work both ways and don't have any issues with either way since I'm all about teamwork and every building inspector I've worked with totally understands the way I evaluate safety measures in new and existing structures.  To get anything accomplished team members have to check their ego's at the door and remember those we serve and have a strong understanding of customer service; not to be mistaken with discression or lack of enforcement capability.


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## RJJ (Nov 10, 2010)

FM: I agree that ego's need to be left at the door. My fire guys at times see things differently then I do. Often it is a positive view on a condition or issue. We all benefit. Just like here on this board! In some way we all benefit form the different views even when we don't agree.

Texasbo: You will probably get your wish soon because Green is on the move and soon will dominate all code decisions.

UB: I will cut out my own tongue!

I sat in a meeting yesterday for about an hour & a half. I did not even make a mark on the tablet. One of the green people ask at the end if I had any comments and would I be willing to review the ordinances they had been considering. My answer to the do I have any questions was no. The answer to reviewing the ordinances was I do not think you want to hear what I have to say. Another asked as I was leaving you forgot your tablet! My response was there was nothing worth noting, so save the paper.


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## texasbo (Nov 10, 2010)

Well there you go, RJJ, you "went green"! My only hope is that the sheep, with their predictable short attention spans, will find another fad, another bandwagon to jump on, and all of the green BS will fade away. Kind of like the once-hot trend of throwing paint on people's fur coats, or scratching the paint on Hummers. All it will take is a new reality show to come along, or maybe a scandal on "Dancing With The Stars", and "Green" will all of a sudden be passe'.


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## globe trekker (Nov 10, 2010)

Welcome " Danielle " to The Code Forum!    

.


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## RJJ (Nov 10, 2010)

Tesasbo: Just never heard such junk! There are some brain dead people in local politics and the room was full of do gooders! even being paid to sit through it did not compensate for the pain.

No I am not green, but am being forced into something that is not well thought out. I do agree we can do better. But I draw the line at reusing the coffee stirrers. Some of the things I listened to were so far fetched I had to keep for saying anything at all.


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## FM William Burns (Nov 10, 2010)

YES, Welcome Danielle, anyone who mentions PLM and understands the abilities and politics of it is a welcome sight


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## Uncle Bob (Nov 13, 2010)

Welcome to the forum Danielle,

Uncle Bob


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## packsaddle (Nov 13, 2010)

anyone that can correctly spell "luminescent" shouldn't be hanging around here with us peasants.


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## FM William Burns (Nov 13, 2010)

That's why I used PLM because I always mess that up.


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## TJacobs (Nov 13, 2010)

packsaddle said:
			
		

> anyone that can correctly spell "luminescent" shouldn't be hanging around here with us peasants.


With copy and paste, you don't need to be able to spell...


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## Uncle Bob (Nov 13, 2010)

I like Pheasant; but not with flied lice.   

Uncle Bob


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## jar546 (Dec 6, 2010)

Spam alert on Danielle.  Moderators please keep an eye on Danielle's posts and alert me if any others appear to be spam such as the one above.


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## Webber (Apr 8, 2011)

When it comes to the factors that impact the construction industry, one of the top concerns of most businesses and governments is found with the implementation of safety programs. The utilization of a safe work method statement is something every company must generate, prior to any construction project, as well as educate associates of the requirements made of them.


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