# Fees For Solar Installations



## Alias (Oct 21, 2011)

Quick question.  What do you base your permit fees on for a solar installation?  Valuation?  Electrical?  Both?  Something else?

Sue


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## Mule (Oct 21, 2011)

Valuation of total job cost.


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## Alias (Oct 21, 2011)

Mule said:
			
		

> Valuation of total job cost.


Mule -

Thanks.  Never done one of these before.  First time for everything I guess.

Sue


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## Mule (Oct 21, 2011)

We do make them provide information on the loads also.........


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## pwood (Oct 21, 2011)

valuation of job makes for a good payday. 1 inspection usually.

   mule,

         do charge a plan check fee of 65% of the building permit fee in addition?


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## gbhammer (Oct 21, 2011)

pwood said:
			
		

> valuation of job makes for a good payday. 1 inspection usually.   mule,
> 
> do charge a plan check fee of 65% of the building permit fee in addition?


Your not kid'n but isn't that what going green is supposed to do. We all get paid. More jobs for all. Just ask Solyndra.

We charge a flat fee $60 per system. It is to easy a review and inspection to justify more.


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## Mule (Oct 21, 2011)

We don't have any plan check fees at this time. However if we did we would charge them. There are things that you have to look at during the review. It doesn't take long to review the plans but we do look at roof loads.

This is a weird one... we also require the amount of coverage of the roof. We are in the flight line of the Naval Air Reserve Base Station and the Commander in Chief of the base has asked us to forward any applications that have more than 1200 square feet of solar panels to send them a copy of the plan for them to review. Something about the reflection of the panels into the pilots flight path could cause a reflection and blind the pilots momentarily.


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## Alias (Oct 21, 2011)

Mule said:
			
		

> We do make them provide information on the loads also.........


They are submitting an application and a book with all the specs.  Guy I talked to said no one ever reads it, I told him I would be reading it.

Sue


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## gbhammer (Oct 21, 2011)

Wow how do you put that in a comment letter?

Dear Sir or Ma’am,

We regret to inform you that your plans for energy efficiency have been denied by the federal government.

We understand the hypocrisy of this action but the DHS has us by the short hairs, and we don't know Michelle.


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## Alias (Oct 21, 2011)

pwood said:
			
		

> valuation of job makes for a good payday. 1 inspection usually.mule,
> 
> do charge a plan check fee of 65% of the building permit fee in addition?


Pwood -

Do you charge plan check?  I already ran it up for valuation only and am close to $530, add plan check and it would be about $875.

Can't wait to see what the forest service building will run if they do solar on their new building.

Sue


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## fatboy (Oct 21, 2011)

We base it on valuation of job, by statute State of Colorado max's us out to $500 total, for everthing on residential. Yes, require specs, my master electrician/plans examiner does a plan check.


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## pwood (Oct 21, 2011)

sue,

 plan check fee based on hourly rate.


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## mark handler (Oct 22, 2011)

Solar Permit Fee Waiver Program Extended

The Santa Ana City Council voted unanimously at its April 4 meeting to extend for an additional 2 years a Solar Permit Fee Waiver program, which encourages homeowners and businesses to install solar systems. The program’s benefits are truly green: the homeowner and business save hundreds of dollars in permitting fees and enjoy at least a 50 percent reduction in their monthly electrical bills. And each solar installation reduces the amount of carbon created by fossil fuels by eliminating on average carbon dioxide emissions that are equivalent to driving a car 22,600 miles.

Solar installations require a building and electrical permit as well as plan checks and inspections. The two-year program waives these fees as an incentive to encourage solar installations.


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## ICE (Oct 22, 2011)

As the govt. incentives die off, residential solar will follow suit.  The upfront expense is large and the payback takes a decade.  As more owners discover the nightmare of a re-roof, the failure of expensive components and escalating maintenance costs, the solar electric fad will be shown as misguided.

Solar technology may overcome some of the drawbacks but in the near term I think it is dead on arrival.  If for no other reason, the customer base is small and will be expended shortly.


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## fatboy (Oct 23, 2011)

I agree, it will end up not being any different than the solar water heating fad in the early-mid 80's. Govermant rebates at the time were what, 75%? They went up all over......and came down years later. I think your generous in thinking a 10 year payback, in the office we've thought 20-30 maybe.


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## mark handler (Oct 23, 2011)

Permit Fee Waiver for Commercial Solar Energy Program

*Anaheim *Public Utilities will waive the applicable building and electrical permit fees for Anaheim business customers installing solar energy systems on their homes. Since permit fees range between $250 to $300, this additional incentive helps offset the cost of the solar energy system at your business.

http://www.anaheim.net/utilities/pdf/CommPVPermitFeeWaiver.pdf

Solar Fee Waiver Program For Installation of Certain Solar Energy Systems (*Tucson *City Wide)

Because of high interest and increasing solar installations, reestablishment of the Solar Waiver Program is being brought forward earlier than the start of Fiscal Year 2012.

http://www.tucsonaz.gov/sirepub/cache/2/v20aijjyyzbe1bymjnua0qnx/369206710232011080535970.PDF

*san clemente * RENEWAL OF THE SOLAR PERMIT FEE WAIVER PROGRAM

http://san-clemente.org/sc/Meetings/CityCouncil/Packets/Download/OldPackets/08-16-11/08-16-11%2006E%20Solar%20Permit%20Fee%20Waiver%20Program.pdf

FEE WAIVER FOR PHOTOVOLTAIC SOLAR PROJECTS *Hermosa Beach*

http://hermosabeach.granicus.com/MetaViewer.php?view_id=4&clip_id=1452&meta_id=90065


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## conarb (Oct 23, 2011)

fatboy said:
			
		

> I agree, it will end up not being any different than the solar water heating fad in the early-mid 80's. Govermant rebates at the time were what, 75%? They went up all over......and came down years later. I think your generous in thinking a 10 year payback, in the office we've thought 20-30 maybe.


True Fatboy, I built an 8,000 foot home in 1982, it had water solar panels on a hillside, the water circulated down into the swimming pool then up into a heat pump under the home, forced air was then blown through the house.  At the time I questioned how it would work and was told that these systems are used even in cold country where people could ice skate on the pool and there was enough heat in the bottom of the pool to heat the home.  Fortunately the AHJ didn't buy it requiring a backup source so the engineers put electric coils around the heat ducts.  this necessitated an 1,100 amp electrical service on the house and you can imagine the cost.  I ran into the owner a few years ago, he said the maintenance was horrible and at 10 years the plastic piping and panel construction was so badly deteriorated that he was told that the system had reached it's service life and had to be replaced, he took the whole thing off the hill and now heats with the electrical coils at an average expense of $800 a month (as a point of reverence in this area similar homes I have built with conventional gas HVAC systems average $250 a month).

I recently read that Google built a server farm with solar panels, they found that washing the panels increased efficiency by 67%, and the panels were delaminating.



> In the real world, we are just starting to find out how bogus many of those predictions are. The National Renewable Energy Laboratory  says that panels can degrade as much as 4.5% a year. Or more. Put that  in your pro forma and see what your banker and insurance agent -- or  Congressman -- say about that.The latest issue of the leading industry trade journal Photovoltaics  International, asks the question: "What is the real quality of the  products I am buying?"
> 
> Short answer: Nobody knows. In Italy last year, "they discovered that  after one year in the field, over 90% of the (solar panels) from a one  megawatt project began to delaminate and ended up on the ground."
> 
> ...


¹ http://energy.aol.com/2011/10/07/solar-panels-dont-work-and-no-one-knows/


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## beach (Oct 24, 2011)

CONARB, you left something out.....It's a nice advertisement:



> They just had no way of knowing when they needed it. That is because until recently, panel level monitors have not been available for larger systems. Now they are.Today, large system owners are able to know when their systems need cleaning, when they need to replace panels, and which ones to replace.
> 
> The stakes are huge.
> 
> ...


In todays newspaper.........................................................http://www.ocregister.com/news/solar-143461-ocprint-power-energy.html


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## Mule (Oct 25, 2011)

Our local electrical provider is now offering a lease to own solar system. I guess they figure with all the new energy requirements that their income will drop way down so now they offer an alternative. With all the rebates and federal money out there it ends up a pretty good deal for the homeowner IF you live long enough in the same house to see the benefit!


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## mark handler (Nov 10, 2011)

High permit fees in Vallejo, Dixon hinder businesses' switch to solar

By Rachel Raskin-Zrihen/--Source: Sierra Club Redwood Chapter (Solano Group) & Loma Prieta Chapter

Posted: 11/10/2011 01:00:53 AM PST

http://www.timesheraldonline.com/news/ci_19305055

Since lowering many of its permit fees last month, Vallejo's residential solar panel fees are now in the normal range, but the same cannot be said on the commercial side, a Sierra Club spokesman said this week.

And this may be keeping some business owners and others from going solar, he said.

A new Sierra Club study shows Vallejo's commercial solar permit fee is more than $20,000, by far the county's highest. Dixon is next, with a $14,500 fee. Vacaville's $400 fee is the county's least expensive, the study shows.

Having these fees so far outside the norm for the area and exceeding by so much what's needed to recover costs, could be discouraging Vallejo business owners from going with the "greener" energy alternative, Sierra Club Redwood and Loma Prieta Chapters spokesman Kurt Newick said.

Newick said he's conducted hundreds of comparative studies on the issue as part of a campaign to encourage cities to lower these fees and make it easier for people to opt for rooftop solar panel systems.

"Vallejo's commercial fees are eight to 10 times higher than they need to be," Newick said.

The problem, Newick said, is that the city calculates the permit fee based on the project's cost, like permit fees are, but this violates two state laws meant to encourage solar installations.

"There is no connection between what it costs to inspect a project like this and the cost of the project," he said.

Assistant City Manager Craig Whittom said officials are aware that the fees are too high and are examining the issue.

"We are looking at those," Whittom said. "We had a good outcome with our residential fees, and it has come to our attention that our commercial fees are not competitive with other cities. We're reviewing that and expect to get back to the council with proposed modifications to those fees."

That will likely be within the next couple of months, he said.

A 2006 Sierra Club study of residential solar permit fee study for all San Francisco Bay Area cities found four of Solano County's eight municipalities (including the county itself) were over-charging for residential permits, Newick said.

The most recent survey, conducted this month, reveals that 75 percent of Solano County cities, including Vallejo, have significantly lowered those fees since then. The fee in Vallejo was lowered from $671 to $394. Dixon is the only city in the county now over-charging -- and it's not by much, Newick said. The permit cost $500 in Dixon and should cost around $350, he said.

Vallejo Chamber of Commerce board president Michael Coan said the commercial fees would stop him from going solar.

"It kind of makes you lose the incentive to try and do it," Coan said. "If you want to encourage going green, having such a huge discrepancy won't help."

Last month, the survey team notified four municipalities with commercial solar project fees exceeding $5,000, that their fees were excessive and requested they review their calculation methods, Newick said. He said charging more for solar permits than the reasonable costs to administer them violates California Government Code Section 66014, which provides that fees associated with building inspections and building permits "shall not exceed the estimated reasonable cost of providing the service for which the fee is charged."

After getting that letter, Fairfield "promptly slashed their commercial (solar) permit fees," but it is the only city to do so so far.

The study's authors developed a free fee calculator spreadsheet for roof-mounted commercial solar systems to help municipalities determine cost recovery, Newick said. It is accessible at www.SolarPermitFees.org/ PVFeeCalcCommercial.xls.

Contact staff writer Rachel Raskin-Zrihen at (707) 553-6824 or rzrihen@timesheraldonline.com.

Solar permits in Solano County today vs. 2006

Residential: Commercial:

* Benicia $150, up from $125 * $1,538

* Dixon $500, up from $149 * $14,531

* Fairfield $221, up from $203 * $3,519, from $7,300

* Rio Vista $250, down from $783 * $11,311

* Solano County $352, down from $1,113 * $1,188, from $22,477 (2010)

* Suisun City $118, down from $282 * $463

* Vacaville $185, down from $404 * $400

* Vallejo $394, down from $671 * $20,696


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## Frank (Nov 10, 2011)

We permit solar panels the same as any other electrical installation based on estimated cost--fee $4 per $1000 plus $68 with a little difference under $4000.

$90 000 panel installation project fee would be $428 plus 2% state levy of $8.56

Fee includes review and inspections.

$10 000 project would be $108 fee plus state levy of $1.10


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## ICE (Nov 10, 2011)

We have an installation under construction with a valuation of $1.2 billion and larger installations on the drawing board.  I am not at liberty to state the permit fee, but trust me, it is huge.


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## bgingras (Nov 10, 2011)

Based on total job cost. Permit fee is $10 per $1,000 of value. I've issued permits for 6 of these residential systems in just the last 2 weeks. Always get engineering report for existing structure and stamped plans for any structure modifications required.


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## FredK (Nov 11, 2011)

Not in the business anymore but IIRC solar water permits were $75.00 and PV systems were $150.00.  They had to include all details including mounting, number and type of panels and units used.  Usually a one line drawing of electrical did the job and it had to include all the sections/requirements of the NEC and local POCO on that page. Most of the applicants were used to providing all the info since everyone in the Valley required pretty much the same thing.

Great resource is the New Mexico University (sorry I didn't keep the info) for what to check for on submittal and inspection process.  We were doing at least one water a week and 2-3 PV units a month when I left.


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