# Turnstiles



## Codegeek (Dec 2, 2011)

Does anyone have any experience with accepting turnstiles located at a means of egress?  They meet the exceptions in Section 1008.3 however my comfort level isn't there.  I'm just curious if anyone has ever run across them before.

Thanks.


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## gbhammer (Dec 2, 2011)

Not a single one in our county that I know of.


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## north star (Dec 2, 2011)

** * * **

Codegeek,

For clarity to all, which code edition are you using?

Also, if they meet all of the exception requirements, why is

your comfort level not achieved?.....Trying to better

understand this issue!....Are there any ADA issues?

Thanks!

** * * **


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## Codegeek (Dec 2, 2011)

north star said:
			
		

> ** * * **Codegeek,
> 
> For clarity to all, which code edition are you using?
> 
> ...


I'm referring to the 2009 IBC.  In this particular case they are using turnstiles at all of the egress doors.  That's where my discomfort lies.  Since this is my first experience with them, I'm not sure if that's acceptable, even if they meet the requirements.


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## Msradell (Dec 2, 2011)

Only place I've ever seen them is in industrial situations where they used for access control.  When they lose power or a fire alarm occurs they are set up to freewheel not sure how they fit into the code these days, these were installed quite a while ago.


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## gbhammer (Dec 2, 2011)

Msradell said:
			
		

> Only place I've ever seen them is in industrial situations where they used for access control.  When they lose power or a fire alarm occurs they are set up to freewheel not sure how they fit into the code these days, these were installed quite a while ago.


Ah I was wrong earlier, we do have them at industrial site. I go through them all the time, just slipped my mind.


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## cda (Dec 2, 2011)

Do not see how they can be used at "every" exit

""Exception: Each turnstile or similar device shall be credited with no more than a 50-person capacity where all of the following provisions are met: """"

What is the occupancy/ type of business????


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## Codegeek (Dec 2, 2011)

cda said:
			
		

> What is the occupancy/ type of business????


It's a call center, so lots of people in cubicles.


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## north star (Dec 2, 2011)

** * * **

Agree with cda!....Cannot be more than 50% of the occupant

load of your call center, when all of the exception provisions

are met.

** * * **


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## cda (Dec 2, 2011)

Boy talk about cattle call


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## mark handler (Dec 2, 2011)

2012 International Fire Code

Chapter 10 - Means of Egress

* 1008.3 Turnstiles. *

*Turnstiles or similar devices that restrict travel to one direction shall not be placed so as to obstruct any required means of egress. *

*Exception: Each turnstile or similar device shall be credited with no more than a 50-person capacity where all of the following provisions are met: *

*1. Each device shall turn free in the direction of egress travel when primary power is lost, and upon the manual release by an employee in the area.*

*2. Such devices are not given credit for more than 50 percent of the required egress capacity.*

*3. Each device is not more than 39 inches high.*

*4. Each device has at least 16 1/2 inches clear width at and below a height of 39 inches and at least 22 inches clear width at heights above 39 inches. *

*Where located as part of an accessible route, turnstiles shall have at least 36 inches clear at and below a height of 34 inches, at least 32 inches clear width between 34 inches and 80 inches and shall consist of a mechanism other than a revolving device.*


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## Msradell (Dec 3, 2011)

mark handler said:
			
		

> 2012 International Fire CodeChapter 10 - Means of Egress
> 
> 2. Such devices are not given credit for more than 50 percent of the required egress capacity.


Given there are multiple devices of this design and their aggregate is significantly greater than the required capacity does this mean the code given everything else needs the code?  I realize each one can't be credited with more than 50% but can a bank of them be credited for 100%.


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## mark handler (Dec 4, 2011)

Msradell said:
			
		

> but can a bank of them be credited for 100%.


Such devices, Not device. IMHO, no


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## gbhammer (Dec 5, 2011)

At the casinos they will have turnstiles on each side of an exit, and a large open space in the middle with a ribbon that comes down in the event of an emergency. of course these spaces are constantly attended.


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## cda (Dec 5, 2011)

there are turnstiles :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Turnstile.alewife.agr.jpg

and than there are turnstiles::

http://www.frontierpitts.com/images/pedestrian_control/turnstile/atmel%201.jpg


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## mark handler (Dec 5, 2011)

The casinos also have plenty of nonturnstile emergency exits in other locations


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## Examiner (Dec 5, 2011)

As I read the 2012 Section 1008.3 posted by Mark; each turnstile can take no more than 50-people.  I assume this means your occupant load divided by 50 equates to the number of turnstiles you are allowed at that one exit.  Of course in an emergency you do not know which way people are going to egress.  Then 50% of them cannot give credit to the required egress capacity and you will have to have other means of egress nearby.  Is that right?


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## cda (Dec 5, 2011)

exam

I do not think the code states how many you can havwe at an exit,

just that with them there they cut the number of people that can go through that exit in half

so yes you would have to provide a added code complying exit without a turnstile to make up for that half lost


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 5, 2011)

> Then 50% of them cannot give credit to the required egress capacity and you will have to have other means of egress nearby. Is that right?


If I have 2 exit building with an OL of 200 and a 3/0 door (150 OL) with 3 turnstiles (150 OL) 50% credit is 75 OL are you saying I will need 1 more turnstile to meet an exit OL of 100?


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## cda (Dec 5, 2011)

mtl

if you only have two exits

and one has a turnstile blocking it

you need another door, or three total in my opinion


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 5, 2011)

cda said:
			
		

> mtlif you only have two exits
> 
> and one has a turnstile blocking it
> 
> you need another door, or three total in my opinion


Not until you have an OL of 300

1008.3.2 Additional door.

Where serving an occupant load greater than 300, each turnstile that is not portable shall have a side-hinged swinging door which conforms to Section 1008.1 within 50 feet (15 240 mm).


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## cda (Dec 5, 2011)

Trick question

Do not have the code book in front of me

Looks like though base would be still if a turnstile is part of the exit in only gives you fifty per cent and you have to make up for that other fifty

This scenario is wrong no matter what I'm my oP:::

If I have 2 exit building with an OL of 200 and a 3/0 door (150 OL) with 3 turnstiles (150 OL) 50% credit is 75 OL are you saying I will need 1 more turnstile


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## Codegeek (Dec 6, 2011)

Based on the number of turnstiles and the 50 occupants per turnstile, the turnstiles will allow for approximately 350 people for egress.  So, based on what I've seen here with the discussion most of you seem to agree that if the occupant load of the space is more than 350, then more egress will be required and that egress must be provided without turnstiles.  Correct?


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## cda (Dec 6, 2011)

I think it is a little hard to answer the question without seeing a floor plan

As long as it meets all the provisions for turnstiles


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## JBI (Dec 6, 2011)

Each turnstyle has a maximum capacity of 50 persons. No matter how many turnstyles you put in, they can never be counted for more than 50% of total required egress, the other 50% must egress through other-than-turnstyle exits.

Like a delayed egress emergency exit that restricts egress at normal conditions but allows instant use in an emergency.


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## cda (Dec 6, 2011)

put what if those three turnstiles are lined up next to each other, in front of a 3/0 door??

I think a floor plan is needed, to answer a set scenario


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## Codegeek (Dec 6, 2011)

I'm not in a position to provide a floor plan, but suffice it to say that based on JBI's comment, that answers my question.  Additional egress will need to be provided as of right now, all the egress must go through the turnstiles.


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## cda (Dec 6, 2011)

code

sorry been going round in circles with this one

yes your original set up where every door had a turnstile does not meet code

do not understand why they want to use turnstiles, when there are other means to account for thier people coming and going, and also since it will cost more money


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## Codegeek (Dec 7, 2011)

Thanks cda.  The company wants to use them to control security; not sure why the extreme measures here with the restrictive turnstiles.  I've shared my concerns with the architect on the project after you all have confirmed my suspicions.


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## cda (Dec 7, 2011)

have seen different configurations of below, so you still have the turnstiles, but also  have a means to bypass the turnstiles, and see that would be legal:::

http://www.broughton-controls.co.uk/interface/series800.jpg

http://suprakashinfrastructure.com/index_files/tripod-turnstile.jpg

unless they have it working at another facility, I think once they put in in practice they will see it is more of a problem than a help


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## Mule (Dec 7, 2011)

I think the occupant load of fifty will get them. If you are limited to a specific amount of people by the code and you cannot get the occupant load out.. even though they have the correct amount of exits then additional exits would be required.


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## Architect1281 (Dec 7, 2011)

No matter what the code stupidly allows at the behest of the turnstyle lobby this designer would not place them in ANY egress path.

If security is the issue I would provide exits to an adequatly remote properly sized exterior courtyard and then let security decide who

can leave the premesis. placing obstacles in the way of egress has been proven a bad thing.

As a CBO you would be allowed the minimum level of stupidity


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## JBI (Dec 7, 2011)

A bit harsh Arch1281, don't you think? Glad to hear you wouldn't put them in MOE BTW.


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## Architect1281 (Dec 7, 2011)

Basic tenent of the code - Get the people out - safe n quick


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