# Ilegal issued permit



## Birmingplumb (Oct 13, 2019)

Hired Licensed builder- highly connected local build dept. ,zoning dept, city departments-contracted to build 2 bedroom house.  Permit issued by his buddy with no site plan ( required by city ordanace) or plan on parking. Builder told me gravel drive  since everything in community is 100 yrs old and gravel. Now it changes at end -says cement parking 20x20  pad @ 7$ sf required. City ordinance says prior build permit issued -plot or site plan addressing drives both new and existing need to be submitted and approved.  I am out of cash. I need occupancy for disabled son. How to handle this? Am I responsible for knowing code as owner when I hire a licensed guy to do everything? Motown----


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## e hilton (Oct 13, 2019)

Do you have a written contract?  Does it say the house is design-build with the contractor responsible for meeting all codes?  Where do you stand on payments to the contractor ... is he paid in full or did you hold money back until the certificate of occupancy was issued?  Did you provide all the plans?


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## Birmingplumb (Oct 13, 2019)

Thanks- almost handshake deal between 2- 70yr old - one plumber me- he builder-
yes short contract to "construct ranch style home as designed by xxxxx ( his arch) drawings dated ( left blank by him ) to be incorporated into this proposal to create a contractual agreement.cost to construct as agreed is xxx) Did I approve plans? nothing in writing but verbal based on his verbals. Like said almost handshake deal since America built on trust. I just asking not legal advice I know I prob should have got review of docs butt asking how to get inspector buddy of his to do right and admit he screwed up by issuing permit  so I can work out a solution all parties can live worth. impervious cement is not spirit and intent or code its written to discourage parking lots and kid does not even drive or have car -so really no parking strip even needed and this is a postage stamp lot given variance argued by builder.


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## Birmingplumb (Oct 13, 2019)

Found in ordinance site plan can get a "minor modification" with just inspector initaling original plot site plan ( not submitted for permit granted) so I recommended ths 4 days ago had not heard back. Recommended to builder to ask his buddy ---I write this to ask for other ideas. There were drives cut into curb 20 ft wide (2) to service the burned down duplex one on each side of the 30' wide dwelling. I wanted and was told we could keep drives gravel. So after I am out of cash he comes up with this requirment to strictly follow the lettter of the code and force me to a. put a cement parking slap where the future 2 bedrooms would go instead of gravel . I am a weld inspector and carry 8 state licenses . I ask for a inspectors view on this issue cause everyone at work here thinks it stinks and I want to hear arguments and other side defending a inspectr buddy of a builder issuing a permit in violation of the city ordianance rquiring a plan on exisiting parking -excuse typo I am upset.


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## Birmingplumb (Oct 13, 2019)

Thanks for question and making me read it closer. Not only does it say to be built in workman like manner ommiting any mention of codes it says i am responsible for a fire -good thing i got insurance anyway.  I am hoping he IS required to build to to code as he IS state licensed and I am hoping somebody agrees the city needs to make this rght so a innocent handicapped child can move in and the guilty parties who have been exposed are at least taking responsibility and not hide behind some legal loophole- and America was built on Trust-and this is the issue to me.


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## TheCommish (Oct 13, 2019)

Reagan said "Trust but verify"  The contract or lack thereof is the reson for the issue not what he local building officials has said is required.


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## ICE (Oct 13, 2019)

Where I work driveways are regulated by a planning dept.  Planning dept. approval is required prior to issuance of a building permit.  That would require a plan with a planning dept. stamp.  Gravel would not be approved here and the contractor that you hired knew that gravel would not be approved there.

A driveway is not a building code issue nor is it a life/safety concern.  In as much as you were led astray by the contractor and the inspector....the neighbors have gravel driveways....the home was built for a disabled citizen....you are a senior citizen.....unless they are holding up the utilities....screw 'em....move in.


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## Birmingplumb (Oct 13, 2019)

ICE said:


> Where I work driveways are regulated by a planning dept.  Planning dept. approval is required prior to issuance of a building permit.  That would require a plan with a planning dept. stamp.  Gravel would not be approved here and the contractor that you hired knew that gravel would not be approved there.
> 
> A driveway is not a building code issue nor is it a life/safety concern.  In as much as you were led astray by the contractor and the inspector....the neighbors have gravel driveways....the home was built for a disabled citizen....you are a senior citizen.....unless they are holding up the utilities....screw 'em....move in.



The city ordinance says occupancy permit shall be issued after the site work including drives are approved. Thus my fear is the builder gets final and I am stuck with no or even a temporary occupancy permit until say spring when it thaws - but the lord takes my 70 yr old butt and leaves my kid homeless. It needs to be addrssed and I am asking what and how to handle this building inspector.


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## cda (Oct 13, 2019)

Are you in the city limits of Detroit ?

or County

itt somewhere else??


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## Birmingplumb (Oct 13, 2019)

cda said:


> Are you in the city limits of Detroit ?
> 
> or County
> 
> itt somewhere else??


no


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## e hilton (Oct 13, 2019)

Unfortunately the city always reserves the right to rescind a permit if they find some item that is not in compliance.  I have had it happen to me.  They say it should have been caught in plan review, it wasn’t, sorry must comply now.  

If the agreed price was for gravel, and now concrete is required, the additional cost is on you.  If the agreement and drawings showed “driveway” with no material specified, you could assume the intent was a code compliant drive and the contractor attempted to change the material to increase his profit.  But you would have to prove you had not agreed to gravel.  Verbal agreements are worthless.  Whats on the plans?  Are there are emails that discuss gravel?  

You hav3 not answered the payment question ... have you paid the final invoice?


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## e hilton (Oct 13, 2019)

Birmingplumb said:


> no


No what?   Not in detroit?  Not in the county?  Not somewhere else?


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## Birmingplumb (Oct 13, 2019)

sorry no not in wayne county-in oakland county--- there was no drive shown on submitted plan nor was there any parking slab now required. Not only is it required that a parking area and drive be included with submittal, it is required that a building permit shall not be issued without such plan for required off street parking and egress. That said - a valid building permit was issued -to the builder-who insisted a certain archetect draw plans up-which were done with no egress or parking submitted approved and 165k later and broke now I am told that I need to not follow the approved submission and issued permit for same  with no parking for a kid with no car or license- but follow what inspector now claims is required 2 car offstreet parking- and the submission on paper show a future garage to be located adjacent the house attached in side yard--so ya think that would have alerted inspector to ask wheres the drive to go? He did not-just gave his buddy a pass to carry on and relieve me of 165k keep everyone happy and try and walk away with a possible no occupancy or tem occupancy due to what -doing thing s right? Last 5k to be paid after completion----defined?  I asked the builder to ask the inspector where he wants the frickin slab and its been 4 days no answer.


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## cda (Oct 13, 2019)

You might ask the city for the requirement in writing from the city laws/ ordinance,,,

To see how it actually reads!!!!

See if it actually says concrete,

Or does it say concrete or other approved material??

Also, how long is the driveway from the city street to the house??

A couple of things, 

You might start emailing the city manager or what ever the boss of the city/ county is called. Lay out what has happened, so he knows about it, and may give you some leverage in this matter. Plus lets him know what his employees are doing!!


There is always an appeals process. So if push comes to push, You might as well go through the appeals process!


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## Birmingplumb (Oct 13, 2019)

cda said:


> You might ask the city for the requirement in writing from the city laws/ ordinance,,,
> 
> To see how it actually reads!!!!
> 
> ...



I read the entire ordinance. After 2007 all drives for and parking shall be concrete or bitimous material something like that. Yet under the spirit and intent of the "parking" section- it says "parking lots sizes and construction shall or should be designed to minimize impact of rain water and preserve as much of natura as possible or word to that effect causing me to believe the parking section was put in there for oversized parking lots damaging causing floods etc. Also found a way for code offical to remidy by just making note on site plan-"due to postage stamp size lot- minor modification allowing gravel approved to accomadate rainfall and not change character of area what-so ever"  I recommended this approach to solve this to builder so he can tell his buddy - This makes the guy go away and we can continue on.  Vieled threat was there that if he push this mandatory cement he best draw where it goes before I put it in.


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## Birmingplumb (Oct 13, 2019)

7 year bucket list plan to end son's homelessness before I go is being played with by 2 buddys, prob laugh about a week befor house is done and final---. I am asking how tohandle these guys when 1 inspector screwed up and 2 builder was former  city offical . I know the rest. Just let them get away with this or it aint worth exposing to manager, city council and others. I learned long ago change occurs when a fire is built under somebody. Should I wait longer or start the fire? Or just eat it?


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## cda (Oct 13, 2019)

Birmingplumb said:


> I read the entire ordinance. After 2007 all drives for and parking shall be concrete or bitimous material something like that. Yet under the spirit and intent of the "parking" section- it says "parking lots sizes and construction shall or should be designed to minimize impact of rain water and preserve as much of natura as possible or word to that effect causing me to believe the parking section was put in there for oversized parking lots damaging causing floods etc. Also found a way for code offical to remidy by just making note on site plan-"due to postage stamp size lot- minor modification allowing gravel approved to accomadate rainfall and not change character of area what-so ever"  I recommended this approach to solve this to builder so he can tell his buddy - This makes the guy go away and we can continue on.  Vieled threat was there that if he push this mandatory cement he best draw where it goes before I put it in.




So not into drives, but appears it can be asphalt???


how long is the driveway from the city street to the house??


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## cda (Oct 13, 2019)

Birmingplumb said:


> 7 year bucket list plan to end son's homelessness before I go is being played with by 2 buddys, prob laugh about a week befor house is done and final---. I am asking how tohandle these guys when 1 inspector screwed up and 2 builder was former  city offical . I know the rest. Just let them get away with this or it aint worth exposing to manager, city council and others. I learned long ago change occurs when a fire is built under somebody. Should I wait longer or start the fire? Or just eat it?




Start the bon fire!!!!  At least that is what i would do.

Email manager, and city council members

Look into the appeals process..

Nothing to lose. Do not let the threats get in your way.


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## Birmingplumb (Oct 13, 2019)

1 vote start protest and thanks-- asphalt allowed. 20 x 20 parking side yard only then drive about 20 ft from sidewalk to pad which needs location in side yrd not front.


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## cda (Oct 13, 2019)

Birmingplumb said:


> 1 vote start protest and thanks-- asphalt allowed. 20 x 20 parking side yard only then drive about 20 ft from sidewalk to pad which needs location in side yrd not front.




I was wondering if you could use pavers??? Of some type?

City i live in wrote me up for parking one side of the car on grass, so I just went and got some bricks and put down, They were happy.


IS the a Minimum width the drive has to be????


I have seen a city accept gravel with some type of liquid asphalt on top.


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## Birmingplumb (Oct 13, 2019)

In 6 months I can put stamped concrete in if I desire- just between rock and hard spot now thanks.


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## Mark K (Oct 13, 2019)

From a building code perspective the owner of the property is responsible for code compliance.

You may have a Civil claim against the builder but this may not be a good idea because the cost of attorneys may mean you get little money back.

The contractor’s license focuses on the ability to build the project not on his ability to know the code.  You give contractors too much credit.

Your best bet is probably to ask for a variance.


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## Birmingplumb (Oct 13, 2019)

Thanks Mark K- should I ask the city to  waive the 600 dollar fee since they screwed up not me?


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## cda (Oct 13, 2019)

Birmingplumb said:


> Thanks Mark K- should I ask the city to  waive the 600 dollar fee since they screwed up not me?




No

Learn about the appeals process

Is there a minimum width for the drive itself???


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## Birmingplumb (Oct 13, 2019)

none found


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## cda (Oct 13, 2019)

Birmingplumb said:


> none found




Go old school and lay two strips of concrete till you get to the parking area???


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## cda (Oct 13, 2019)

Birmingplumb said:


> In 6 months I can put stamped concrete in if I desire- just between rock and hard spot now thanks.




I think this is your last resort, if you can not get the city or through appeals, to accept what you have now.


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## cda (Oct 13, 2019)

One last question,,,

This is a new house on a new lot, that never has had a house?????


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## e hilton (Oct 13, 2019)

The gravel can become the base for either concrete or asphalt.


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## e hilton (Oct 13, 2019)

Im reading through the “road commission for oakland county” website, and it says if the street that the driveway ties into is paved, the driveway needs to be paved.   If the street is not paved, the driveway does not need to be paved.  I didnt see any exception for small lots.  

You said no driveway was shown on the plans.  So that makes me think the contract price did not include a drive, and you got what was on the contract documents.  If the city or county had refused to issue the permit unlesss a drive was shown, i suspect the contractor would hav3 increased the price to cover the additional work.


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## rogerpa (Oct 13, 2019)

Who is the permit holder? you? your contractor? if your contractor, then I say he's responsible to produce in accordance with the law. If he conned you into applying for the permit - Caveat emptor.

*2015 MRC
R105.4 Validity of permit*

The issuance or granting of a _permit_ shall not be construed to be a _permit_ for, or an _approval_ of, any violation of any of the provisions of this code or of any other ordinance of the _jurisdiction_. _Permits_ presuming to give authority to violate or cancel the provisions of this code or other ordinances of the _jurisdiction_ shall not be valid. The issuance of a _permit_ based on _construction documents_ and other data shall not prevent the _building official_ from requiring the correction of errors in the _construction documents_ and other data. The _building official_ is authorized to prevent occupancy or use of a structure where in violation of this code or of any other ordinances of this _jurisdiction_.


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## Birmingplumb (Oct 14, 2019)

cda said:


> One last question,,,
> 
> This is a new house on a new lot, that never has had a house?????


There was a duplex burnt down few yrs ago- it too was 100 yrs old- it had a gravel drive on each side of the 30 ft wide 2 story- and there were 2 curb cuts for the drives still there also never addressed  and one drive leades right into the house (new) forcing me to come up with some kind of appealing bumper guard so some drunk frien dont run thu living room-  all un addressed when permit was issued


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## Birmingplumb (Oct 14, 2019)

rogerpa said:


> Who is the permit holder? you? your contractor? if your contractor, then I say he's responsible to produce in accordance with the law. If he conned you into applying for the permit - Caveat emptor.
> 
> *2015 MRC
> R105.4 Validity of permit*
> ...



Builder pulled permit- above or on another board someone said a builder is only required to build it to code but not to know the code- said owners responsible for that---I question that thinking.


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## Birmingplumb (Oct 14, 2019)

cda said:


> One last question,,,
> 
> This is a new house on a new lot, that never has had a house?????


had duplex . burned down. i bought lot for 25k because city said no sewer or water tap fees.


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## e hilton (Oct 14, 2019)

Mark K said:


> The contractor’s license focuses on the ability to build the project not on his ability to know the code. .


I disagree.  Guess it depends on the state.  When i got my gc license, a major part of the exam was the ibc.


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## Birmingplumb (Oct 14, 2019)

e hilton said:


> I disagree.  Guess it depends on the state.  When i got my gc license, a major part of the exam was the ibc.


I disagree as well- I had a electrical inspector tell my son in law journeyan who was told to stand inspection for jobs he did not do- " I told you to correct all these violations last time- if you do not- I will try to jerk your license" in Michigan. So saying a guy can not be responsible for something he did ( use his buddy inspector to go around city ordinance to submit site plan) just so he can build and collect on house seems preposturous


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## my250r11 (Oct 14, 2019)

It may be of benefit to you to speak to the Building Official and see if you can get a temporary Certificate of Occupancy while you get things worked out with the contractor. Be Nice and explain your situation. May work & might not but worth a try. Here any new structure requires the paved parking, no way out of it, but as said sometimes we will work with people to get it done in XXX amount of days on a Temp. CO.


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## rogerpa (Oct 15, 2019)

Birmingplumb said:


> Builder pulled permit- above or on another board someone said a builder is only required to build it to code *but not to know the code-* said owners responsible for that---I question that thinking.



Not true. In Michigan the builder is required to know the code, including possessing  a current copy of the code, and taking continuing competency classes to renew his/her license.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(kk...g.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-339-2411
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/lara/BuilderComplaintForm_635073_7.pdf
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(kk....aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-339-2404b


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## Birmingplumb (Oct 16, 2019)

Went to see build inspector- was nice- told him handshake deal- I am following his demand- drawing up un-submitted site plan with drive - took 4 hrs will submit for approval or modificatin on Thursday. Did say temp occ would be considered maybe install base (gravel) to get final, then in spring cement what part he needs cemented over base as described by one plumb above. Now to find a guy. Got $5.50 sq ft for base, labor, cement-----same guy 2.00 sf for labor on cement......said 1.00 sf to spread base....but busy....frost soon. Thanks all here.


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