# Location  of  Return  Air  Grille



## north star (Nov 30, 2017)

*@ ~ @ ~ @*

Greetings all !

I have a small Occ. Group B - Office Addition to an existing bldg.
I am reviewing plans for compliancy on a number of items.
The plans ARE sealed & signed by an RDP.

In this current set of plans, they have Supply Air Grilles in each
of the rooms and spaces, but no Return Air Grilles [ in any room
or space.  ]........They DO however, have one 18" x 18" Return Grille
shown to be installed in a small Supply Room.......This Supply Room
DOES have a closeable \ latchable door with one 24" x 18" Return
Air Grille in the door.

I have never seen a design with Supply Air Grilles only to each room
and essentially, ...no way for the Return Air to leave each "closed off"
room.

Comments ?  Code Compliant ?  Code Sections please ! 

*@ ~ @ ~ @*


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## Builder Bob (Nov 30, 2017)

stab in the dark from IMC -


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## north star (Nov 30, 2017)

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Thank you Builder Bob !  

*@ ~ @*


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## Paul Sweet (Dec 1, 2017)

A 3/4" gap below the door will transfer a little over 100 CFM.  This might be adequate if the rooms are small.


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## north star (Dec 1, 2017)

*& # & # &*

Thanks Paul for your input........The current set of plans do not indicate
any "gaps below any doors"......Also, 3/4"  sure does seem like very little.

I have sent a Comment Letter requesting clarification of the design.

*# & # & #*


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## tmurray (Dec 1, 2017)

The use of halls as a return air plenum is relatively common here. The only concern is that this approach can create dead air zones if the return air location is not centrally located.


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## north star (Dec 1, 2017)

*$ * $ * $*

Thank you ***tmurray*** for your input as well !

Another question for all:

*QUESTION:*  The current HVAC design is for all of the Return
Air to go thru the Supply Closet Door and then thru a gypsum
wall Return Air Grille back to the AHU.....Our staff has a
concern of [ possible ] hazardous chemicals, cleaners, solvents,
etc. being stored in the Supply Closet, and then being drawn
in to the Return Air stream.

Thoughts ?  Comments ?  Code violations ? Other ?

Thanks !

*$ * $ * $*


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## Keystone (Dec 1, 2017)

I would have the same concerns as North Star.

System has to balance and without adequate return air from the supplied areas it's not going to be compliant. 
Options are; undercut doors to the design professionals requirement, wall or similar thru transfer grills to the common hall or provide ducted returns. While not the best approach from a comfort standpoint it will work when the balance calcs come back.

The preference we see is undercut doors.


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## tmurray (Dec 7, 2017)

north star said:


> *$ * $ * $*
> 
> Thank you ***tmurray*** for your input as well !
> 
> ...


I would assume this system is designed for recirculation, but then again, that's only because it gets cold where I live and re-heating air is expensive. Is it just a supply closet or is there a mop sink/janitor's sink in there as well? If it's just for storing chemicals, I would not be overly concerned, but if the chemicals are used in that room, I would be concerned.

As far as codes go, we use ASHRAE 62. This standard classifies air streams into four classes of 1 to 4 with one being the most clean. Offices have an air classification requirement of 1. A good example of a class 2 air is an elevator machine room. Generally you can recirculate any air stream to it's own classification or any higher classification. However, you can also recirculate class 2 air to class 1 spaces. I don't know that I've ever seen someone recirculate an elevator machine room into the regular air stream. I'm pretty sure these all are exhaust only, but someone could do it. The big driver here becomes indoor air quality through the workplace health and safety enforcement.


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## Josh Koci (Dec 12, 2017)

tmurray said:


> I would assume this system is designed for recirculation, but then again, that's only because it gets cold where I live and re-heating air is expensive. Is it just a supply closet or is there a mop sink/janitor's sink in there as well? If it's just for storing chemicals, I would not be overly concerned, but if the chemicals are used in that room, I would be concerned.
> 
> As far as codes go, we use ASHRAE 62. This standard classifies air streams into four classes of 1 to 4 with one being the most clean. Offices have an air classification requirement of 1. A good example of a class 2 air is an elevator machine room. Generally you can recirculate any air stream to it's own classification or any higher classification. However, you can also recirculate class 2 air to class 1 spaces. I don't know that I've ever seen someone recirculate an elevator machine room into the regular air stream. I'm pretty sure these all are exhaust only, but someone could do it. The big driver here becomes indoor air quality through the workplace health and safety enforcement.



To expound on tmurray "chemical storage closets" per ASHRAE 62.1 are strictly exhaust and classified as class 4 air. However, if it is a "Janitors closet" it is class 3 air and can be recirculated as long as it does not exceed 5% of the outdoor air intake.



Paul Sweet said:


> A 3/4" gap below the door will transfer a little over 100 CFM.  This might be adequate if the rooms are small.



I also agree with Paul on this. I don't have the drawings in front of me so I cannot speak directly to them, but from what it sounds like to me the doors could be undercut. We do this in smaller office spaces (<5-10 tons) as common practice. We do however, have a symbol specified for undercuts and a coded note specifically calling it out.


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## north star (Dec 13, 2017)

*@ ~ @ = K*

No replies to my comments back to the RDP, ...yet !

Since the Return Air Grilles are located on the Supply
Closet Door, and inside the Supply Closet [ on a side
wall  ], we also have a concern that supplies & stuff will
be stored [  read - jammed in to  ] the Supply Closet
enough to actually block \ partially block the Return Air
flow.


*K = @ ~ @*


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## Keystone (Dec 14, 2017)

Return air through any closet is nonsensical and seems to be a poor design at best.


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## steveray (Dec 14, 2017)

1018.5 Air movement in corridors. Corridors shall not
serve as supply, return, exhaust, relief or ventilation air ducts.
Exceptions:
1. Use of a corridor as a source of makeup air for
exhaust systems in rooms that open directly onto
such corridors, including toilet rooms, bathrooms,
dressing rooms, smoking lounges and janitor closets,
shall be permitted, provided that each such corridor
is directly supplied with outdoor air at a rate
greater than the rate of makeup air taken from the
corridor.
2. Where located within a dwelling unit, the use of corridors
for conveying return air shall not be prohibited.
3. Where located within tenant spaces of 1,000 square
feet (93 m2) or less in area, utilization of corridors
for conveying return air is permitted.
4. Incidental air movement from pressurized rooms
within health care facilities, provided that the corridor
is not the primary source of supply or return to
the room.


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## Mech (Dec 14, 2017)

^^ steveray's comment is from the Building Code.


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