# LP gas appliances in a basement



## retire09

As I recall, years ago LP gas appliances were not allowed in basements or crawlspaces of buildings.

I am unable to find any mention of that today.

Have the appliances and the codes changed to allow Propane Appliances in all the same locations as natural gas appliances?


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## steveray

I hope so.....I have approved them there....


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## Pcinspector1

I ran into this issue last year. Ol boy moved into town from his farm and wanted to bring his 500gal LP tank for a back up on his Natural gas furnace. Caused me to do lots of research. First he could'nt bring that size tank in to a residential location because of city ordinance. But there is a patten pending on a furnace orfice that allows a furnace to be changed back and forth from LP to Natural. Then the issue you stated about basements and crawl spaces got me looking in the code for prohibited installs. I too would like to know if LP is allowed in a crawlspace or basement by code?


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## ccbuilding

We have allowed them, with an propane sensor alarm, that shuts off fuel flow automatically and turns on a ducted fan to the exterior of the building. I don't think this is in the ICC, but comes from the NPGA.

I'll have to do some research to find exactly where we got that from.


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## Bootleg

The LPG Codes have all changed in last few years.

You can have an LPG applance in a basement or crawl space without a pan with a drain to daylight.

Go figure.


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## mtlogcabin

Just what is the concern of a LPG appliance in a basement or crawlspace?


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## MarkRandall

I can't say for certain, but the concern for LPG is probably leaks. My brother is in the propane business and I can remember a conversation years ago about the gas being heavier than air, so if there's a leak the gas will move toward a basement and be trapped and can build up posing a danger. I don't really know how fast it evaporates or if this is a major concern or not., but that conversation I had with my brother raised mild concern in my mind, but I don't have anything on LPG except camping stuff and it isn't ever used indoors, so I really never questioned much about it.


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## mtlogcabin

That is what I have heard LPG heavier than air fills the basement/crawspace from the ground up. However natural gas lighter than air will fill the same space from the ceiling or floor above down either way all gas leaks are problems.


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## 88twin

what? natural gas fills space from top down?

then why do I elevate source of ignition?


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## ccbuilding

I understood we elevated source of ignition in garage areas due to automobile gas fumes that are heavy and form close to the floor area, not natural gas.


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## steveray

Propane is heavier than air, NFPA 54 or 58 (always get them mixed up) address LPG...a safe installation is just that....no matter what the fuel....there are seperation distances from structures and openings that must be addressed, and tanks are not allowed in a building AT ALL....even your grill tank.....


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## Bootleg

NFPA 58 written by propane companies.


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## Yankee

NFPA 58 with some nice pictures on pages 106-108 for clearances of tanks and regulator installation exterior to the building. NFPA 54 for piping and equipment installation interior.


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## steveray

Bootleg said:
			
		

> NFPA 58 written by propane companies.


Yeah......And......?   Nothing I have inspected has blown up!....Again...if the install is done properly and properly maintained...it is no more dangerous than any other fuel burning appliance in your home...the only unique hazard, is that it will "pool" in low points, but if you fill an area w/ gas...you fill it with gas.....goggle the middletown kllen energy power plant explosion....there is some unsafe natural gas usage...


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## fatboy

The county that I built my house in years ago had an amendment that if you had propane in a basement, you had to have the "sniffer" setup to detect and stop gas flow. Never has worked for that purpose, but everytime there is a power bump, outage, whatever, the friggen thing shuts down. AWESOME in the winter when you aren't home. Now it's taken to buzzing that you can hear in half the house. And so, as the weather warms and I can spend some time re-piping, that thing is GONE!


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## pwood

still not allowed in the california mechanical code by amendment  303.7.1.  our lpg is more explosive than all yours!


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## Alias

General rule of thumb, no installations of LPG appliances in basements, crawlspaces, etc. (CMC).

I have inspected one residential LPG furnace located in a crawlspace here, late 90's. It was a specially designed furnace that had all types of direct venting to exterior, alarms, etc. If there's a question, my advice would be to check the manufacturer's installation instructions.

Sue, where the west still lives...............


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## Daddy-0-

How is a basement any different from a mechanical room or attic for that matter. We inspect propane appliances in basements, crawl spaces, garages, kitchens and lots of other places. Propane and natural gas do have different densities from air. This is why if you have to bring in makeup air for a mechanical room from an adjoining room, the code requires one grill within 12" of the top of the wall and one grill within 12" of the bottom. This is to circulate the air and keep any leaking gas from accumulating.


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## JBI

Daddy-O... You sure those aren't for 'combustion air'??

From the 2009 IFGC:

_101.2.2 Piping systems. These regulations cover piping systems for natural gas with an operating pressure of 125 pounds per square inch gauge (psig) (862 kPa gauge) or less, __and for LP-gas with an operating pressure of 20 psig (140 kPa gauge) or less__, except as provided in __Section 402.6._     and...

_*FUEL GAS.*__ A natural gas, manufactured gas, __liquefied petroleum gas__ or mixtures of these gases._     and...

_*303.3 Prohibited locations.*__ Appliances shall not be located in sleeping rooms, bathrooms, toilet rooms, storage closets or surgical rooms, or in a space that opens only into such rooms or spaces, except where the installation complies with one of the following: _

_        1. The appliance is a direct-vent appliance installed in accordance with the conditions of the listing and the manufacturer's _

_        instructions._

_2. Vented room heaters, wall furnaces, vented decorative appliances, vented gas fireplaces, vented gas fireplace heaters and decorative appliances for installation in vented solid fuel-burning fireplaces are installed in rooms that meet the required volume criteria of __Section 304.5.__3. A single wall-mounted unvented room heater is installed in a bathroom and such unvented room heater is equipped as specified in __Section 621.6__ and has an input rating not greater than 6,000 Btu/h (1.76 kW). The bathroom shall meet the required volume criteria of __Section 304.5.__4. A single wall-mounted unvented room heater is installed in a bedroom and such unvented room heater is equipped as specified in __Section 621.6__ and has an input rating not greater than 10,000 Btu/h (2.93 kW). The bedroom shall meet the required volume criteria of __Section 304.5.__5. The appliance is installed in a room or space that opens only into a bedroom or bathroom, and such room or space is used for no other purpose and is provided with a solid weather-stripped door equipped with an approved self-closing device. All combustion air shall be taken directly from the outdoors in accordance with __Section 304.6._Sounds to me like a) LP Gas installs are covered by the fuel gas code and b) there is no blanket prohibition on basement/crawlspace installs.

But I could be mistaken...


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## Daddy-0-

JBI,

We are on the same page. (Makeup air/combustion air) You are bringing in air for combustion and circulating. I am glad you brought up the section on bedrooms needing a weather stripped door if it adjoins a mechanical room with gas appliances. That gets missed alot in my area.


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