# Winder Treads and Guardrails



## jar546 (Jan 10, 2014)

The Guardrail is 36" in height from the LOWER winder tread, 29" from the the upper winder tread which is 6" from the guard.

What say thee?  IRC Applies


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## Inspector 102 (Jan 10, 2014)

I would measure from the lower surface and call it okay. The code does not give provisions for any elevated surfaces within so many inches of the guardrail. Is this any different than a table or chair located near a guardrail. Yes, someone could set on the table and fall over, but the guardrail itself would still be compliant. Just my 2 cents worth.


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## mjesse (Jan 10, 2014)

Approved.

If the winder landed 6" away from the wall (baluster side) I'd say, not approved.

What if it landed right in the corner of the wall/railing juncture? Tougher call.


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## mark handler (Jan 11, 2014)

Poor design. Does it meet code? Technically yes,  meet the intent no.


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## peach (Jan 11, 2014)

other than the fact the winder itself doesn't meet the Code (it appears).   I think the guardrail meets the intent of the code.


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## mark handler (Jan 11, 2014)

peach said:
			
		

> other than the fact the winder itself doesn't meet the Code (it appears).   I think the guardrail meets the intent of the code.


The intent is to provide a 36 inch guard but standing on the upper winder the person has a less than 30in barrier

If you were to trip on the upper winder you will take a header, over the rail, not the intent of the code


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## jar546 (Jan 14, 2014)

So……………Who would write this up as a violation and who would not and why?  Let's hear it.


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## snowroski (Jan 14, 2014)

Winder Treads and Guardrails

I think I would comment on it, but without code backing, I wouldn't have a basis to write it up.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mark handler (Jan 14, 2014)

i do not think you have a choice but to allow it.  The only thing you might reject it on is the proximity of "walking surfaces".


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## JBI (Jan 14, 2014)

A regrettable 'gap' in the code... not unlike the above ground pool wall that serves as its' own barrier when there is a 'cut' in the grade on one side/end of the pool. The best I can find is the exception to *R312.1.2 Height* that I underlined below... Still not sure I'd cite it though.

R312.1 Guards.

Guards shall be provided in accordance with Sections R312.1.1 through R312.1.4. *R312.1.1 Where required.*_Guards _shall be located along open-sided walking surfaces, including stairs, ramps and landings, that are located more than 30 inches (762 mm) measured vertically to the floor or _grade _below at any point within 36 inches (914 mm) horizontally to the edge of the open side. Insect screening shall not be considered as a _guard_. *R312.1.2 Height. *Required _guards _at open-sided walking surfaces, including stairs, porches, balconies or landings, shall be not less than 36 inches (914 mm) high measured vertically above the adjacent walking surface, adjacent fixed seating or the line connecting the leading edges of the treads.

*Exceptions: *1. _Guards _on the open sides of stairs shall have a height not less than 34 inches (864 mm) measured vertically from a line connecting the leading edges of the treads.


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## ICE (Jan 14, 2014)

JBI said:
			
		

> R312.1 Guards.
> 
> Guards shall be provided in accordance with Sections R312.1.1 through R312.1.4. *R312.1.1 Where required.*_Guards _shall be located along open-sided walking surfaces, including stairs, ramps and landings, that are located more than 30 inches (762 mm) measured vertically to the floor or _grade _below at any point within 36 inches (914 mm) horizontally to the edge of the open side. Insect screening shall not be considered as a _guard_. *R312.1.2 Height. *Required _guards _at open-sided walking surfaces, including stairs, porches, balconies or landings, shall be not less than 36 inches (914 mm) high measured vertically above the adjacent walking surface, adjacent fixed seating or the line connecting the leading edges of the treads.
> 
> *Exceptions: *1. _Guards _on the open sides of stairs shall have a height not less than 34 inches (864 mm) measured vertically from a line connecting the leading edges of the treads.


At any point within 36" is the key to this.  There is more than a 30" drop within 36" horizontally of the edge of the open side of a walking surface.

My code requires a 42" high guard, not 36".


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## David Henderson (Jan 14, 2014)

If the top of the guard rail is to be used as a handrail it can be 34 to 36 inches in height.


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## David Henderson (Jan 14, 2014)

Mean't 34 to 38 inches


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## JBI (Jan 14, 2014)

ICE, "My code requires a 42" high guard, not 36"." What about the exceptions in your California ResCode? The exceptions allow as low as 34"... just sayin'.


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## tbz (Jan 17, 2014)

Sorry for the delay in my response,

This was looked at in detail during past CTC meetings when working on the climb ability study.  Though it could happen, proven with the picture it became a wording issue, because how does one look at this since the edge is off the front of the tread, not the side of the tread in question with regards to height.

The code is specific to the open sides of the walking surface and stairs…

Thus the side of that tread is closed in by the wall.

It is no different than the next step down the flight, in front of you every time you walk down a stair flight.  The tread you are on is closer than 36" horizontal in plane than the next 3 below in flight and is also less than 34" when you measure off angle over the guard, here it just so happens to be at the winder/turn in a flight.

Now I will say we normally build up a goose neck to the wall at those points, more for a handrail grasp, than guard protection.

But, code wise the height is being measured in the same manner off the front edge, not the open side.


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## tbz (Jan 17, 2014)

ICE said:
			
		

> At any point within 36" is the key to this.  There is more than a 30" drop within 36" horizontally of the edge of the *open side* of a walking surface.My code requires a 42" high guard, not 36".


Cal; IRC Section *R312.1.2* height; both exceptions 1 & 2 allow the guard to be 34" high on the interior stair flight.

OPEN SIDE, not the front edge all treads more than 4 risers up are over 30" and within 36" of the front edge all guards are lower than 34" front every front edge above 30" when no full height wall is present.

1. limited to the open side

2. Then the within any point 36"

You don't have an open side!


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## tbz (Jan 17, 2014)

TYPO Correction flipped the numbers:  Admin fix and delete send response correction - thank you

Cal; IRC Section *R312.1.2* height; both exceptions 1 & 2 allow the guard to be 34" high on the interior stair flight.


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