# Toilet gab bars in nursing home



## Rick18071 (May 11, 2011)

In fully accessible bath rooms in a nursing home they attached a folding grab bar onto the rear grab bar on the open side of  the toilet. This makes the last foot of the rear grab bar unusable. I am failing this and requiring them to appeal to the state if they want this. They are already mounted in 100 bathrooms. This could hold them up for a C O. Any comments?


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## mark handler (May 11, 2011)

What is the code that applies?

The folding grab bars are acceptable under the FAIR HOUSING ACT DESIGN MANUAL

The Guidelines permit the installation of folding wall-mounted, floor-mounted or wall and floor-mounted grab bars where it is not possible to install “appropriate” wall-mounted ANSI, or similar, complying grab bars. This is particularly relevant when there is no wall or a very short wall adjacent to the toilet.

http://www.huduser.org/publications/pdf/fairhousing/fairch6.pdf


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## mark handler (May 11, 2011)

If it is the IBC 2009, ICC/ANSI A117.1, as listed in the other thread, you are right, a *"Folding grab bar"* is not listed in these publications. It is interesting that "They are already mounted in 100 bathrooms," What happened at plan check and the earlier installations....

2006 INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE® COMMENTARY

The code is not intended to inhibit innovative ideas or technological advances. A comprehensive regulatory document, such as a building code, cannot envision and then address all future innovations in the industry. As a result, a performance code must be applicable to and provide a basis for the approval of an increasing number of newly developed, innovative materials, systems and methods for which no code text or referenced standards yet exist. *The fact that a material, product or method of construction is not addressed in the code is not an indication that such material, product or method is intended to be prohibited.* The building official is expected to apply sound technical judgement in accepting materials, systems or methods that, while not anticipated by the drafters of the current code text, can be demonstrated to offer equivalent performance.

By virtue of its text, the code regulates new and innovative construction practices while addressing the relative safety of building occupants. The building official is responsible for determining if a requested alternative provides the equivalent level of protection of public health, safety and welfare as required by the code.


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## jar546 (May 11, 2011)

PA uses the ANSI A117.1 2003

Only an appeal to the state can reverse the officials decision.


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## mark handler (May 11, 2011)

jar546 said:
			
		

> PA uses the ANSI A117.1 2003 Only an appeal to the state can reverse the officials decision.


Rick feels the need not to tell us his location.


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## Rick18071 (May 11, 2011)

I am in PA. 2009 IBC and ANSI 117.1. There was no detail in the plans that they where attached to the grab bars. The rear grab bar needs to be 36" but ends up with only 24" of graspable and useable space.


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## Paul Sweet (May 12, 2011)

Can the folding grab bar be installed just below the 36" grab bar, so it doesn't interfere?


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## mark handler (May 12, 2011)

Paul Sweet said:
			
		

> Can the folding grab bar be installed just below the 36" grab bar, so it doesn't interfere?


Paul

if the bar folds *Up* it will hit a "wall" bar above


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## MarkRandall (May 12, 2011)

I've never seen a foldable grab bar that attaches to another grab bar. Can the foldable bar be removed at any time leaving the rear grab bar fully usable? If so, I don't really see the what the issue is. Shouldn't a facility be allowed to "customize" the installation to work better for the intended users (provided the original code legal set up is easily to revert to)?


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## Rick18071 (May 12, 2011)

I am not qualified to say what is better, I have no idea how these bars are used and how it was decided how this bars should be. Code does not say they can customize.  It seems to me for a person that is use to using the rear grab bar it would be harder to use if 1/3 of the bar is unusable. This folding grab bar can't be moved, it's made to attach to another bar.


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## mark handler (May 12, 2011)

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> This folding grab bar can't be moved.


Does not make sense, if it  can't be moved, then it isn't a folding grab bar.


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## Rick18071 (May 16, 2011)

It is only attached to the rear grab bar and folds down. They are going to appeal it.


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## Yikes (May 16, 2011)

Rick - do you have a photo that you can post here of the actual installation?  It's still hard to visualize.

Also, just curious - was this a premanufactured, standard configuratio?  Or is this somehtign that was dreamed up in-field?


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## Rick18071 (May 20, 2011)

Don't have a photo, and it was made to attach to the grab bar . It looks like the one above and pivots on the grab bar.


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