# Woodstove installed in sunroom



## Rick18071 (Dec 26, 2018)

I'm trying to find a way out for a friend that is installing a wood stove in a sunroom so the sunroom does need to have or upgrade insulation as the local inspector is requiring. Sunroom is finished and the existing if any insulation is unknown.

2015 IECC under existing buildingsThe sunroom code book let's you use the IECC)
R503.2 Change in space conditioning. Any nonconditioned
or low-energy space that is altered to become conditioned
space shall be required to be brought into full compliance
with this code.
Exception: Where the simulated performance option in
Section R405 is used to comply with this section, the
annual energy cost of the proposed design is permitted to
be 110 percent of the annual energy cost otherwise
allowed by Section R405.3.

I was thinking he could say he had a portable heater in the sunroom and it is not being changed from a nonconditioned to a conditioned space. Would you accept that?


Or how would you prove that the sunroom would meet this exception? Would the existing wall between the house and the sunroom need to be brought up to the 2015 code?

2015 IRC  1102.1.Exceptions
The following low energy buildings or portions thereof, separated from the remainder of the building
by building thermal envelope assemblies complying with
this section shall be exempt from the building thermal
envelope provisions of Section N1102.
1. Those with a peak design rate of energy usage less
than 3.4 Btu/h · ft2 (10.7 W/m2) or 1.0 watt/ft2 of
floor area for space conditioning purposes.
2. Those that do not contain conditioned space.

Also if someone put a wood stove or fireplace on a patio would you require them to build a insulated room around it?


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## VillageInspector (Dec 26, 2018)

By installing a source of heat you are changing an non conditioned space into a conditioned space. in so far as your patio question goes the outside patio is not considered a space in that its not contained by four walls and a roof.


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## steveray (Dec 26, 2018)

If the sunroom was thermally isolated (door/windows/walls of any type)...I do not think I would worry too much....


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## Rick18071 (Dec 26, 2018)

steveray said:


> If the sunroom was thermally isolated (door/windows/walls of any type)...I do not think I would worry too much....



Not sure what you mean. The inspector is requiring insulation to the 2015 IRC


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## steveray (Dec 26, 2018)

If someone wants to add on and can't meet the energy code, as long as that area has a door to close it off from the house, we are good...The wood stove does make it a little tricky. We have an amendment that allows "onsite" wood....


(Amd) R402.1 General (Prescriptive). The building thermal envelope shall meet the
requirements of Sections R402.1.1 through R402.1.5.
Exception: The following low-energy buildings, or portions thereof, separated from the
remainder of the building by building thermal envelope assemblies complying with this section
shall be exempt from the building thermal envelope provisions of Section R402:
1. Those with a peak design rate of energy usage less than 3.4 Btu/h ft2 or 1.0 watts per
square foot (watt/ft2) of floor area for space conditioning purposes.
2. Those that do not contain conditioned space.
3. Buildings and structures for which heating and cooling is supplied solely by utilization of
non-purchased renewable energy sources including, but not limited to, on-site wind, onsite
water or on-site solar power, or wood-burning heating appliances that do not rely on
backup heat from other purchased, non-renewable sources.


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## cda (Dec 26, 2018)

Call it a patio??

Is there just a walk thru door into the house 

Or bigger opening??


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## Rick18071 (Dec 26, 2018)

I don't know the size of the door into the sunroom from the house. 
I just need something from the IECC to show to the local inspector that it does not need to meet the energy code.


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## Rick18071 (Dec 26, 2018)

I told him that it would pass if he took the windows out, then it would be considered non conditioned. Then he could put the windows back after the C. O. Don't need a permit here for installing windows where there is no structure issues.

Other ideas?


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## steveray (Dec 26, 2018)

Put the woodstove in later? But yours almost sounds code compliant.....


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 26, 2018)

If you are only adding a wood stove to the sun room then that is not an alteration by definition, so 503.2 is not applicable

ALTERATION. Any construction, retrofit or renovation to an existing structure other than repair or addition. Also, a change in a building, electrical, gas, mechanical or plumbing system that involves an extension, addition or change to the arrangement, type or purpose of the original installation.

A wood stove is not a mechanical system by definition
[MP] MECHANICAL SYSTEM. A system specifically addressed and regulated in this code and composed of components, devices, appliances and equipment.

This is a non-habital room/space  since it currently does not meet section R303.10 Required Heating

The energy code only requires a change of occupancy to comply with the code if there is an increase in demand for fossil fuels or electricity. Wood is not a fossil fuel so R505.1 does not apply 

R505.1 General.
Spaces undergoing a change in occupancy that would result in an increase in demand for either fossil fuel or electrical energy shall comply with this code.


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## FLSTF01 (Jan 23, 2019)

A woodstove is not thermostatically-controlled.  I wouldn't bother with it.  Take a permit to install a woodstove as supplemetal heat and move on to bigger fish.


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## No Soup for you (Feb 13, 2020)

I agree, with the above. The room will not be T-stat controlled from the main heating unit and the stove only operated occasionally as supplemental heat.


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## cda (Feb 13, 2020)

No Soup for you said:


> I agree, with the above. The room will not be T-stat controlled from the main heating unit and the stove only operated occasionally as supplemental heat.




Welcome

What do you do for a living?


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## ICE (Feb 13, 2020)

mtlogcabin said:


> If you are only adding a wood stove to the sun room then that is not an alteration by definition, so 503.2 is not applicable
> 
> ALTERATION. Any construction, retrofit or renovation to an existing structure other than repair or addition. Also, a change in a building, electrical, gas, mechanical or plumbing system that involves an extension, addition or change to the arrangement, type or purpose of the original installation.
> 
> ...


My first thought also.   I'm surprised it was the tenth post before the obvious answer surfaced.


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## steveray (Feb 14, 2020)

So putting a wood stove in is not construction and we should not require a permit for it?


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 14, 2020)

A mechanical permit would be required however the energy code would not be applicable for the wood stove installation since the wood stove is a solid fuel burning appliance and not a fossil fuel burning appliance


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## No Soup for you (Feb 14, 2020)

cda said:


> Welcome
> 
> What do you do for a living?



Building Inspector

I would NEVER make someone do what the original poster is going through.

Yes it "maybe" now be considered conditioned space with the wood stove but much the same if they added a fireplace instead of a wood stove. In my opinion.

I would never break someones


ICE said:


> My first thought also.   I'm surprised it was the tenth post before the obvious answer surfaced.



Thanks for the "Welcome"
I have been in commercial and residential construction for 28 years. The guy with the hardhat and the tie (Site Supervisor/Project Manager), and now a Building Inspector for 8 years, I just found this site yesterday. 

With regards to the question of , do you need a permit for a wood stove? If your house burns down and you didnt have one your insurance company will tell you to have a nice day.


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## steveray (Feb 14, 2020)

That is great that you have the ability to ignore code requirements in your jurisdiction, we do not...

(Amd) R104.1 General. The building official is hereby authorized and directed to enforce the
provisions of this code. The building official shall have the authority to adopt policies and
procedures in order to clarify the application of its provisions. Such policies and procedures shall
be in compliance with the intent and purpose of this code. Such policies and procedures shall not
have the effect of waiving requirements specifically provided for in this code, nor shall they have
the effect of establishing requirements in excess of those set forth in this code.

They call it negligence here...And it is a criminal offense just like other violations of the building code...


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 14, 2020)

wood by definition is not one of the 4 "Fossil Fuels" and therefore is not regulated by the energy code. So you are not ignoring the energy code requirements you cannot legally apply them to the installation of a wood stove. 

*Overview of the Four Fossil Fuels*
The four types of fossil fuels are petroleum, coal, natural gas and _Orimulsion_(capitalized because it is a proprietary, or trade, name). They have a number of important physical, chemical and other properties in common, but perhaps the most critical fact about fossil fuels is that *they are not renewable*. Once they are used up, that's it; many more millions of years have to pass before even small amounts can be made again, assuming the same processes will ever even occur on the same scale.


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## steveray (Feb 14, 2020)

I do not believe my energy code exempts wood burning appliances....As much as maybe I think it should...

N1102.4.2 (R402.4.2) Fireplaces. New wood-burning
fireplaces shall have tight-fitting flue dampers or doors,
and outdoor combustion air. Where using tight-fitting
doors on factory-built fireplaces listed and labeled in
accordance with UL 127, the doors shall be tested and
listed for the fireplace. Where using tight-fitting doors on
masonry fireplaces, the doors shall be listed and labeled in
accordance with UL 907.

N1101.2 (R101.3) Intent. This chapter shall regulate the
design and construction of buildings for the effective use and
conservation of energy over the useful life of each building.
This chapter is intended to provide flexibility to permit the
use of innovative approaches and techniques to achieve this
objective. This chapter is not intended to abridge safety,
health or environmental requirements contained in other
applicable codes or ordinances.


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 14, 2020)

That is a fireplace requirement not a wood stove requirement. Wood stoves come with doors and are designed to be operated with the doors closed. Adding doors to a fire place and operating with the doors closed is not how an open fire place was designed to be used.  
Unless the fireplace is listed to have gasketed doors installed I would advise against "requiring" them on all fireplace installations.

Gasket doors on solid fuel burning fireplaces are a building fire safety concern and should not be installed.

http://media.iccsafe.org/geo/docs/FAQ_Module-3.pdf


Q: Section 402.4.3 requires new, wood-burning fireplaces to have gasketed doors. What is the
intent of this provision?

A: To be clear, Section 402.4.3 addresses “wood-burning fireplaces,” as derived from Code
Change EC64-07/08, Part I (AM). In the supporting reason to this proposal, the conditions for
adding the language were to address concerns for energy savings derived from the minimizing
air leakage during periods of non-use and indoor air quality concerns.

Since certain UL-127 “factory-built” fireplaces are listed and labeled to burn wood, and the
installation of gaskets would violate conditions of their listing; we interpret this to mean “masonry
fireplaces” constructed in accordance with the International Building Code–Section 2111, and
NOT “factory-built” fireplaces manufactured in accordance with the International Mechanical
Code–Section 903. Our rationale is derived from the confusion with respect to requirements for
“gasketed doors.”

Worth noting here, is that there are numerous ways to minimize air leakage through the
fireplace during periods of non-use without requiring gasketed doors. For example, there are
several low emission units considered part of the EPA Cleaner Burning Fireplace Program
which are “tightly sealed,” yet do not utilize gasketed doors.

Accordingly, and solely for “factory-built fireplaces,” we recommend pursuing relief from the
proviso for “gasketed doors” administratively vis-à-vis IECC Sections 101.3 (“… this code is not
intended to abridge safety … requirements contained in other applicable codes or ordinances.”)
and 102.1 (“… provided that such construction [or] design … has been approved by the code
official as meeting the intent of this code.”). (2009 IECC 402.4.3)


Also please read


http://www.rumford.com/GasketedFPdoorsIntertekopinion.pdf


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## ICE (Feb 14, 2020)

The information at Rumford.com is startling.    Having been exposed to Rumford.com I now know how wrong adding doors can be.  Thanks mtlogcabin


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## steveray (Feb 18, 2020)

Correct...I was just stating that "wood" products were regulated.....It is "energy" conservation not fossil fuel conservation....And as I said we have a gimmie for "onsite" renewables....


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## Rick18071 (Feb 28, 2020)

Does this wood stove have an electric fan in it to circulate the warm air? If it does the electricity may be made by fossil fuels.


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