# When setbacks kick in



## Bootleg (Jul 14, 2010)

This question came up today, how high can a structure be before it needs to meet setbacks?

I have always said anything that is over 30" high example: decks, posts for porch roofs, guardrails, stairs, bay windows and garden windows need to meet setbacks.

A planter box less than 30" can be on the front property line, a planter box 36" high needs to meet setbacks.

What's your take?


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## mark handler (Jul 14, 2010)

*When a permit is required*

*If a four foot retaining wall is not required to have a permit then a 31" high planter wall does not need one.*

105.2 Work exempt from permit. Exemptions from permit requirements of this code shall not be deemed to grant authorization for anywork to be done in any manner in violation of the provisions of this code or any other laws or ordinances of this jurisdiction. Permits shall not be required for the following:

4. Retaining walls that are not over 4 feet in height measured from the bottom of the footing to the top of the wall, unless supporting a surcharge or impounding Class I, II or IIIA liquids.

* that is unless modified by local codes*


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## Bootleg (Jul 14, 2010)

that is unless modified by local codes

Mark,

Would zoning count?


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## mtlogcabin (Jul 15, 2010)

If you are talking zoning setbacks then it is a local issue. In my jurisdiction if it is attached to a structure and is above grade level it meets zoning setback requirements for that structure. If it is a detached then anything over 30 inches would be required to maintain a 5 ft setback. The exceptions would be fences, retaining walls and landscape items supporting vegatation

If you are talking fire seperation distance then that is a good question.

A fire seperation distance (setback) is for "Any structure used or intended for supporting or sheltering any use or occupancy".

Your planter box example would not be applicable but your other examples may be


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## Yankee (Jul 15, 2010)

Anything that is a structure should meet zoning setbacks. Our definition of a structure "that which is built or constructed with a fixed location on the ground or attached to something having a fixed location on the ground. Structures include but are not limited to a building, swimming pool, billboard, peir, septic system, parking lot/space, and deck. It shall not include a minor installation such as a fence under 6 feet in high a mailbox or flagpole." . . so basically, we allow some items to be up to the property line and some items need to meet the zone setback. You get to decide on your definition and put it in the zoning.


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## mark handler (Jul 15, 2010)

Yes,  zoning would count.

In the city I was a planning and zoning commissioner, the setbacks we the same for all the codes.


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## Bootleg (Jul 15, 2010)

A thank you to all for your help.

Much appreciated.


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## Pcinspector1 (Jul 21, 2010)

Would you allow a fixed or portable wheelchair ramp thats below 30" extend out past the setback? Curious


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## Bootleg (Jul 21, 2010)

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> Would you allow a fixed or portable wheelchair ramp thats below 30" extend out past the setback? Curious


Yes, as long as it is on the same lot and not in the Right of Way.


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## mark handler (Jul 21, 2010)

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> Would you allow a fixed or portable wheelchair ramp thats below 30" extend out past the setback? Curious


Are you trying to regulate *portable* wheelchair ramps?


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## Pcinspector1 (Jul 21, 2010)

Bootleg,

I agree. So many wheelchaired residents need a way into thier homes and I know our zoning code does'nt allow structures to protrude into the setback, but I feel a portable ramp that is under 30" and not extending into any right-of-way or sidewalk can be allowed.

Mark,

Only to the point where someone wants to put his adjustable ramp were it would interfere with a persons right to use a public sidewalk. Ok!


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## Bootleg (Jul 21, 2010)

Pcinspector1,

I would go one step further and say  a permanent ramp on your property and less than 30" can be in the setback.


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## TimNY (Jul 21, 2010)

around here everything must meet setbacks unless it is exempt in the code.  Fences and retaining walls under 4' are exempt in our code, among other things.

Exempting based solely on height above grade, regardless of type of structure, is a bad idea imho.


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## Bootleg (Jul 21, 2010)

TimNY,

I see you point.

It's what I use to I guess and I haven’t run in any problems that I can think of.

I'm a building inspector that gets to do zoning enforcement too.

I thought setbacks were for light, air and space between houses.


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## pwood (Jul 21, 2010)

Bootleg said:
			
		

> TimNY,I see you point.
> 
> It's what I use to I guess and I haven’t run in any problems that I can think of.
> 
> ...


boot,

 i think setbacks also are for fire protection and aesthetics!


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## Bootleg (Jul 21, 2010)

pwood said:
			
		

> boot, i think setbacks also are for fire protection and aesthetics!


Pwood,

Setbacks for fire I understand a little better.

When I said setbacks were light, air and space I had my zoning hat on.


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## JBI (Jul 21, 2010)

Both your local Zoning Law and your local law authorizing you to enforce the Building Code will regulate when a permit is or is not required. If only Zoning compliance is required, it's a Zoning Permit. Some local Zoning laws will use the term 'building permit', and that's OK too.


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## Yankee (Jul 22, 2010)

We use the "building permit" for building and/or zoning review, and a little known office policy is that we do allow the the steps, and at most a 4x4 landing, to encroach upon the setbacks if we review and it seems nessesary.


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## TimNY (Jul 22, 2010)

A recent example regarding setbacks and zoning.  A shed just about on the property line.  Owner tears shed down and places deck there instead (same footprint).  Sounds as good if not better than the shed... Until the neighbor complains that they are having dinner parties on this deck and it is much worse than a shed.

Setbacks are also about peaceful enjoyment of your property.  I mention this because the deck is maybe 8" above the ground; it's not the size of the structure that is obtrusive, it is the use.


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## Yankee (Jul 22, 2010)

That would be permitted here within the existing footprint.

Also, given the fact that a grade patio, or just a plain grassy area, could be used for the same dinner party, I'm not quite sure where the zoning regulation has jurisdiction over the this otherwise allowed (presumably) use.


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## JBI (Jul 22, 2010)

Many Zoning Laws exempt improvements of a maximum height from setback requirements. Typically around 12" for the ones I've worked with and seen.  So the 8" high 'wooden patio' (?) would be exempt in many communities.


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## TimNY (Jul 23, 2010)

Yankee said:
			
		

> That would be permitted here within the existing footprint. Also, given the fact that a grade patio, or just a plain grassy area, could be used for the same dinner party, I'm not quite sure where the zoning regulation has jurisdiction over the this otherwise allowed (presumably) use.


Depends on your zoning code.  Nothing is exempt here except driveways and walkways.  Lot coverage is also an issue.  No prohibition on where you place your patio furniture.  You are free to place it on the grass if that is where you would like to put it.


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## TimNY (Jul 23, 2010)

JBI said:
			
		

> Many Zoning Laws exempt improvements of a maximum height from setback requirements. Typically around 12" for the ones I've worked with and seen.  So the 8" high 'wooden patio' (?) would be exempt in many communities.


I have seen this before.  I have seen this allowed even when the zoning code does not allow it.  I suppose the answer boils down to why the zoning was enacted.  I won't get into semantics of why a deck 12" above grade is allowed versus a deck 18", as the IBC is full of arbitrary numbers (eg you have to draw a line someplace).

Is a 12" deck less of a fire hazard than a deck 24" off the ground?  If the grade radically drops 2' on your neighbor's side of the property line, is a 12" deck on your side of the line less intrusive than a deck 3' high on his side of the line?

If I build a fire pit with a coping 12" above grade on the line with your home 12" away is that as safe a a shed?

Zoning is just a line in the sand.  Each municipality handles it differently; there is no right or wrong.

EDIT:  Just to be clear, I am not taking sides pro/con restrictive zoning.  However, if you're going to have zoning I don't agree with an exemption based on height.  Personally, I get aggravated at my own home when I can't do something because local regulation has removed my right to do so.  Then again, I really enjoy my 30' setbacks so my neighbor can't build his workshop outside my window.


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