# CBC 11A - Can van stall count for both residents and guest?



## Yikes (May 16, 2017)

I have a market-rate (CBC 11A)  condo project, 5 stories of market-rate condos on a podium over a semi subterranean parking structure.  It is a tight site, and inside the podium garage we have a combination of:
A) 17 "tandem" mechanical lifts, total 34 stalls; each tandem is gated and assigned to an individual unit; think of each lift as the private "garage" assigned to that unit.
B) a van accessible stall
C) one planning-code-required guest parking stall.
Total 36 stalls.

This garage is so tight that we only have room for one accessible van stall.  CBC 11A says we need 2% of assigned resident stalls to be accessible (1109A.4) and 5% of visitor stalls to be accessible (1109A.5).
Question:  Since 2% of 35 resident stalls is 0.7, and 5% of 1 is 0.05, and both added together = 0.75, is it OK for one van stall to serve both for resident and guest accessible parking?


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## Msradell (May 16, 2017)

I'm not sure what a direct code requirement would be in this case but one thing I would have to
ask up front is, if there is a resident of the complex that uses the van accessible parking spot on
a regular basis. If that's the case, then there isn't one that's going to be available for guests.
Based on that, I believe it would be that you must have 2 accessible stalls, one for residents and
one for guests. That being said, I see no reason that the single guest parking spot couldn't be just
one spot that serves both purposes. Thus, you would have the accessible parking spaces in
addition to the 34 in the system.  Do you have room to do that?


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## mark handler (May 16, 2017)

Not if assigned parking.


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## Yikes (May 17, 2017)

Msradell, I have room for a van stall and 2nd guest stall to share a common access aisle, but unfortunately the path-of-travel for one goes behind the other, and there's no way around it.

mark handler, I'm also wondering if the assigned parking (stack of 2 cars on a lift, with a safety gate at each lift entrance) actually qualifies for the "private garage" exemption in 1109A.2.1 exc. #3.  
 - The garages are "attached to" the dwelling unit because they are inside the podium level that supports all the units above.
- They "directly serve" the unit because each lift uniquely belongs to a unit.  The condo owner leaves their condo, down the common elevator, into the podium, and presses the button to lift the individual security/safety gate for their stall.

If that is the case, then zero resident stalls are required to be accessible, and the one van stall is just for visitors.


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## mark handler (May 17, 2017)

A "private garage" would have separation between spaces, not an open garage with assigned spaces.


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## mark handler (May 17, 2017)

Private garages accessory to covered multifamily dwelling units shall be accessible as required in Section 1109A. Private garages include individual garages and multiple individual garages grouped together. (1109A.2.1)
Exception: An attached private garage directly serving a single covered multifamily dwelling unit providing at least one of the following options:
a. *A door leading directly from the covered dwelling unit* which immediately enters the garage. The door shall comply on both sides with Sections 1132A.3 through 1132A.9.
b. An accessible route of travel from the *covered dwelling unit to an exterior door entering the garage.* See Section 1132A.1 for requirements at both exit doors.
c. An accessible route of travel from the dwelling unit’s *primary entry door to the vehicular entrance at the garage*. See Section 1132A.1 for requirements at the primary entry door.


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## Yikes (May 18, 2017)

mark handler said:


> A "private garage" would have separation between spaces, not an open garage with assigned spaces.


The separation would occur via individual lift platforms and security gates, like this:





We could put chain link between each lift, if that helps with separation.


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## mark handler (May 18, 2017)

Is the code-required guest parking stall accessible? 
Can the unit assigned lift parking stall be made accessible?


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## Yikes (May 19, 2017)

Q: Is the code-required guest parking stall accessible?   A:Yes, van accessible
Q:  Can the unit assigned lift parking stall be made accessible?  A: No, due to height limitations (lower than 8'-2").

Thanks for your assistance in thinking about these issues.


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## mark handler (May 19, 2017)

If all the units have assigned lift parking. You need an unit assigned parking stall that is accessible, unless they are condos, then it can be adaptable.


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## Yikes (May 19, 2017)

mark handler said:


> If all the units have assigned lift parking. You need an unit assigned parking stall that is accessible, unless they are condos, then it can be adaptable.


Mark, they are all 100% (for sale) condos.  But I can't find in 11A where it describes an "adaptable" parking space.


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## ADAguy (May 29, 2017)

Think, "alternate methods and means allowed", subject to justification acceptance by AHJ.


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## mark handler (May 29, 2017)

ADAguy said:


> Think, "alternate methods and means allowed", subject to justification acceptance by AHJ.


*Maybe, Maybe NOT*

*11B NOT 11A*
Mechanical Access Parking Garages
Accessible parking spaces are not required in mechanical access parking garages where lifts are used to stack vehicles. However, such facilities must provide at least one accessible passenger loading zone at vehicle drop-off and pick-up areas so that people with disabilities can transfer from vehicles *(§11B-209.5).*


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## mark handler (May 29, 2017)

mark handler said:


> *Maybe, Maybe NOT*
> 
> *11B NOT 11A*
> Mechanical Access Parking Garages
> Accessible parking spaces are not required in mechanical access parking garages where lifts are used to stack vehicles. However, such facilities must provide at least one accessible passenger loading zone at vehicle drop-off and pick-up areas so that people with disabilities can transfer from vehicles *(§11B-209.5).*



*
In a tight site, this might be difficult. 
Plus, who is going to park the car?*


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## Yikes (May 30, 2017)

Mark, that's where this gets tricky.  11B perhaps implies - but does not state - the assumption that mechanical lifts are operated solely by some 3rd party valet, and not by the residents.  That is not our condition at this site.

The other thing for me to be careful about is that a passenger loading zone is both longer and taller than an accessible parking stall, so it comes with its own set of problems.


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## ADAguy (Jun 1, 2017)

This all comes down to "scoping", you knew the rules when you began design, is it so hard to comply?


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