# Vehicle storage



## Sifu (Jun 20, 2019)

I have an inquiry for an indoor vehicle storage facility.  It will be for cars, ATV's, boats or other small vehicles on a long term basis, total of 117 spaces in an 18,000 s.f. building (type of construction not known).  I checked for previous threads but didn't find definitive guidance on this question.  Codes I am familiar with are for parking garages, showrooms or repair garages, but not long term storage.  So my question is:  is there a distinction between the aforementioned uses and this type of occupancy (long term)?  There will be no repair or refueling, just storage and the occasional flat tire.  I am trying to determine the appropriate classification for this use.


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## cda (Jun 20, 2019)

Nice fire load,

Possible propane and amount of gasoline

If allowed my boss limits fuel to five gallons


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## classicT (Jun 20, 2019)

Given that ATV's, boats, and RV's are included, it would bumb up from S-2 to S-1.

Make sure to pay careful attention to IBC Section 406 and 903.2.9 (below).

*903.2.9 Group S-1*
An _automatic sprinkler system _shall be provided throughout all buildings containing a Group S-1 occupancy where one of the following conditions exists:
1. A Group S-1 _fire area _exceeds 12,000 square feet (1115 m2).
2. A Group S-1 _fire area _is located more than three stories above _grade plane_.
3. The combined area of all Group S-1 _fire areas _on all floors, including any mezzanines, exceeds 24,000 square feet (2230 m2).
4. A Group S-1 _fire area _used for the storage of commercial motor vehicles where the _fire area _exceeds 5,000 square feet (464 m2). 
5. A Group S-1 occupancy used for the storage of upholstered furniture or mattresses exceeds 2,500 square feet (232 m2).​
*903.2.9.1 Repair Garages*
An _automatic sprinkler system _shall be provided throughout all buildings used as repair garages in accordance with Section 406, as shown:
1. Buildings having two or more _stories above grade plane_, including basements, with a _fire area _containing a repair garage exceeding 10,000 square feet (929 m2).
2. Buildings not more than one _story above grade plane_, with a _fire area _containing a repair garage exceeding 12,000 square feet (1115 m2).
3. Buildings with repair garages servicing vehicles parked in basements.
4. A Group S-1 _fire area _used for the repair of commercial motor vehicles where the _fire area _exceeds 5,000 square feet (464 m2).​
*903.2.9.2 Bulk Storage of Tires*
Buildings and structures where the area for the storage of tires exceeds 20,000 cubic feet (566 m3) shall be equipped throughout with an _automatic sprinkler system _in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1.​*
903.2.10 Group S-2 Enclosed Parking Garages*
An _automatic sprinkler system _shall be provided throughout buildings classified as enclosed parking garages in accordance with Section 406.6 where either of the following conditions exists:
1. Where the _fire area _of the enclosed parking garage exceeds 12,000 square feet (1115 m2).
2. Where the enclosed parking garage is located beneath other groups.
*Exception: *Enclosed parking garages located beneath Group R-3 occupancies.
*903.2.10.1 Commercial Parking Garages*
An _automatic sprinkler system _shall be provided throughout buildings used for storage of commercial motor vehicles where the _fire area _exceeds 5,000 square feet (464 m2).​


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## classicT (Jun 20, 2019)

Ty J. said:


> Given that ATV's, boats, and RV's are included, it would bumb up from S-2 to S-1.
> 
> Make sure to pay careful attention to IBC Section 406 and 903.2.9 (below).
> 
> ...


Also get with your FM, there are a number of requirements related to storage of fuels that come out of the IFC.


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## cda (Jun 20, 2019)

From 2015  ifc

*SECTION313
FUELED EQUIPMENT*
*313.1 General.*
Fueled equipment including, but not limited to, motorcycles, mopeds, lawn-care equipment, portable generators and portable cooking equipment, shall not be stored, operated or repaired within a building.

Exceptions:


1.Buildings or rooms constructed for such use in accordance with the International Building Code.


2.Where allowed by Section 314.


3.Storage of equipment utilized for maintenance purposes is allowed in approved locations where the aggregate fuel capacity of the stored equipment does not exceed 10 gallons (38 L) and the building is equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system installed in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1.

*313.1.1 Removal.*
The fire code official is authorized to require removal of fueled equipment from locations where the presence of such equipment is determined by the fire code official to be hazardous.


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## classicT (Jun 20, 2019)

cda said:


> 313.1 *Exceptions:*
> 
> Buildings or rooms constructed for such use in accordance with the International Building Code....


*311.2 Moderate-Hazard Storage, Group S-1*
Storage Group S-1 occupancies are buildings occupied for storage uses that are not classified as Group S-2, including, but not limited to, storage of the following: 

...
Dry boat storage (indoor)
...
Motor vehicle repair garages complying with the maximum allowable quantities of hazardous materials listed in Table 307.1(1) (see Section 406.8)
...


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## cda (Jun 20, 2019)

COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE. A motor vehicle used to transport passengers or property where the motor vehicle:


1.Has a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 pounds (454 kg) or more; or


2.Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver.


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## Sifu (Jun 21, 2019)

My thinking has been S-1, but the only specific item on the list is boat storage though I tend to think jet-skis and ATV's are similar in nature.  However I have a feeling they will argue the parking garage viewpoint and go for S-2.  Either way they will need to provide a compliant fire area or sprinklers.  I suspect this is a VB building, which makes the sprinklers a requirement anyway........unless it is considered an S-2, which could be allowed if adjoined by a 60' public way by way of the unlimited area building provisions.  The way I see it, if an S-2 the unsprinkled building could be allowed if the 60' is maintained, but 903.2.10 would require a maximum 12,000s.f. fire area.  If an S-1, sprinklers required by area limitations.  Thats why the distinction is important.  BTW, the owners business plan contains the following section, there are no "commercial vehicles" listed but that could be a specific restriction for an operational permit from the FD if it is allowed as an S-2 parking garage.

Price Per Linear Foot ($/ft)                         (Numbers based on $190/car for 16 ft car)
o Cars                                             $12/ft
o Boats                                           $16/ft < 24ft
o Motorcycles                               $8/ft
o Jet Skis Mono/Dual                  $10/ft | 14/ft
o Pop Up Trailers                          $16/ft < 16ft
o ATV/Razors                                $10/ft – on trailer (<16ft) 12/ft
o Snowmobiles                             $10/ft – on trailer (<16ft) 12/ft
o Storage for long term legal action vehicles (Insurance investigations)


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## classicT (Jun 21, 2019)

Sifu said:


> My thinking has been S-1, but the only specific item on the list is boat storage though I tend to think jet-skis and ATV's are similar in nature.  However I have a feeling they will argue the parking garage viewpoint and go for S-2.  Either way they will need to provide a compliant fire area or sprinklers.  I suspect this is a VB building, which makes the sprinklers a requirement anyway........unless it is considered an S-2, which could be allowed if adjoined by a 60' public way by way of the unlimited area building provisions.  The way I see it, if an S-2 the unsprinkled building could be allowed if the 60' is maintained, but 903.2.10 would require a maximum 12,000s.f. fire area.  If an S-1, sprinklers required by area limitations.  Thats why the distinction is important.  BTW, the owners business plan contains the following section, there are no "commercial vehicles" listed but that could be a specific restriction for an operational permit from the FD if it is allowed as an S-2 parking garage.
> 
> Price Per Linear Foot ($/ft)                         (Numbers based on $190/car for 16 ft car)
> o Cars                                             $12/ft
> ...


Almost every RV is a commercial motor vehicle. Make sure to check the definition CDA shared; not all commercial motor vehicles require a CDL. 10,000lbs is not much in the scheme of today's RV's.

I think we can all agree that it is a S use

*311.1 Storage Group S*
Storage Group S occupancy includes, among others, the use of a building or structure, or a portion thereof, for storage that is not classified as a hazardous occupancy.​
S-1 is specified as:

*311.2 Moderate-Hazard Storage, Group S-1*
Storage Group S-1 occupancies are buildings occupied for storage uses that are not classified as Group S-2, including, but not limited to, storage of the following:  ...​
S-2 is specified as:

*311.3 Low-Hazard Storage, Group S-2*
Storage Group S-2 occupancies include, among others, buildings used for the storage of noncombustible materials such as products on wood pallets or in paper cartons with or without single thickness divisions; or in paper wrappings. Such products are permitted to have a negligible amount of plastic _trim_, such as knobs, handles or film wrapping. Group S-2 storage uses shall include, but not be limited to, storage of the following: ...​
With the tremendous amount of fuel loading associated with boats, ATV's, and RV's (think plastics, gas, LP tanks, firewood, compressed bug spray, etc.), the hazard is not similar in nature to the defining characteristics provided in 311.3 (above). S-2 is "for the *storage of noncombustible materials* such as products on wood pallets or in paper cartons with or without single thickness divisions; or in paper wrappings. Such products are *permitted to have a negligible amount of plastic trim, such as knobs, handles or film wrapping.*" 

Like boats, most RV's on today's market are predominantly clad in plastics, fiberglass, and other synthetic materials that are highly combustible. By comparison, conventional automobiles are predominately metal skinned with glass. This is not to say conventional cars pose a low fuel load, but they are not as readily ignitable as a boat/RV/ATV/etc.


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## cda (Jun 21, 2019)

From IFC

Require a technical report from a FPE, or similar 


*A]104.7.2 Technical assistance.*
To determine the acceptability of technologies, processes, products, facilities, materials and uses attending the design, operation or use of a building or premises subject to inspection by the fire code official, the fire code official is authorized to require the owner or owner’s authorized agent to provide,without charge to the jurisdiction, a technical opinion and report. The opinion and report shall be prepared by a qualified engineer, specialist, laboratory or fire safety specialty organization acceptable to the fire code official and shall analyze the fire safety properties of the design, operation or use of the building or premises and the facilities and appurtenances situated thereon, to recommend necessary changes. The fire code official is authorized to require design submittals to be prepared by, and bear the stamp of, a registered design professional.


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## mtlogcabin (Jun 21, 2019)

It is clearly an S-1 occupancy classification.
IMHO As for the ridiculous use of 10,000 lb GVW to define a "commercial vehicle"  3500 series single rear tire and dual tire pickups exceed 10,000 lb GVW  

3    10,001 to 14,000 lbs. Medium Duty Ford F-350, Chevy Silverado 3500, GMC Sierra 3500

If you have a mini storage 6,000 sq ft building and someone parks their 3500 series Dodge or Ford pickup in it through the winter while they go south the mini storage is now required to have a fire suppression system in it.
I do not know how to "fix" this definition I just know it does not work in the real world that I live in where these size vehicles get parked in a lot of garages overnight during our winter months.

Maybe the code should follow the Federal Highway Administrations classification ratings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_classification


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## ADAguy (Jun 21, 2019)

"Ventilation" in confined spaces will also be an issue


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## classicT (Jun 21, 2019)

mtlogcabin said:


> It is clearly an S-1 occupancy classification.
> IMHO As for the ridiculous use of 10,000 lb GVW to define a "commercial vehicle"  3500 series single rear tire and dual tire pickups exceed 10,000 lb GVW
> 
> 3    10,001 to 14,000 lbs. Medium Duty Ford F-350, Chevy Silverado 3500, GMC Sierra 3500
> ...


The IBC definition is taken directly from the the US Code of Federal Regulations.

*49 CFR 390.5 (linked)*
Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle—
*(1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or*
(2) Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or
(3) Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or
(4) Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and transported in a quantity requiring placarding under regulations prescribed by the Secretary under 49 CFR, subtitle B, chapter I, subchapter C.​


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## mtlogcabin (Jun 21, 2019)

Might use the same weight classification. However note the difference in use. CFR49 requires the vehicle use be related to commerce and the IBC does not. So under CFR 49 an RV or a privately owned truck used for personal use would not fall under the definition of a commercial vehicle.

2018 IBC
[F] COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE. A motor vehicle used to transport passengers or property where the motor vehicle meets one of the following:
1.    Has a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 pounds (4540 kg) or more.
2.    Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver.

*49 CFR 390.5 (linked)*
Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate *commerce* to transport passengers or property when the vehicle—

(1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or

(2) Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or

(3) Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or

(4) Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and transported in a quantity requiring pl

*Definition of commerce*
 (Entry 1 of 2)

2: the exchange or buying and selling of commodities on a large scale involving transportation from place to place
a major center of commerce 
interstate commerce


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## classicT (Jun 21, 2019)

mtlogcabin said:


> Might use the same weight classification. However note the difference in use. CFR49 requires the vehicle use be related to commerce and the IBC does not. So under CFR 49 an RV or a privately owned truck used for personal use would not fall under the definition of a commercial vehicle.
> 
> 2018 IBC
> [F] COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE. A motor vehicle used to transport passengers or property where the motor vehicle meets one of the following:
> ...


Actually, the same CFR Section defines _Interstate Commerce_ as the following:

Interstate commerce means trade, traffic, or transportation in the United States—
(1) Between a place in a State and a place outside of such State (including a place outside of the United States);
(2) Between two places in a State through another State or a place outside of the United States;
(3) Between two places in a State as part of trade, traffic, or transportation originating or terminating outside the State or the United States.​


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## RLGA (Jun 21, 2019)

Other than height restrictions on most parking garages, what would prevent a motor home/camper from being parked in a parking garage? I don’t think there is anything different between any of these vehicles other than where they are used when operated. 

The aggregate quantity of fuel stored in a parking garage will exceed the quantities per a control area for determining Group H, and every car has a fuel tank greater than 5 gallons, so I don’t see how fuel quantity would be a factor—I think the requirements for parking garages takes those specific hazards into consideration.

Also, the materials used in vehicles vary from metals to plastics to rubber, and in various quantities, so restricting storage based on the materials used in the manufacture of various vehicle types should also not be a factor—again, I think this is taken into consideration when establishing requirements for parking garages.

I would, however, recommend that propane tanks be emptied before storing vehicles—that is a risk mitigation plan and not necessarily a code-based requirement.

Thus, my vote is for Group S-2.


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## classicT (Jun 21, 2019)

RLGA said:


> Other than height restrictions on most parking garages, what would prevent a motor home/camper from being parked in a parking garage? I don’t think there is anything different between any of these vehicles other than where they are used when operated.
> 
> The aggregate quantity of fuel stored in a parking garage will exceed the quantities per a control area for determining Group H, and every car has a fuel tank greater than 5 gallons, so I don’t see how fuel quantity would be a factor—I think the requirements for parking garages takes those specific hazards into consideration.
> 
> ...


Ron, what is your thought about the leading description of 311.3. Storage of noncombustible materials with negligible amounts of plastic trim?


Ty J. said:


> *311.3 Low-Hazard Storage, Group S-2*
> Storage Group S-2 occupancies include, among others, buildings used for the storage of noncombustible materials such as products on wood pallets or in paper cartons with or without single thickness divisions; or in paper wrappings. Such products are permitted to have a negligible amount of plastic _trim_, such as knobs, handles or film wrapping.


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## RLGA (Jun 21, 2019)

Ty J. said:


> Ron, what is your thought about the leading description of 311.3. Storage of noncombustible materials with negligible amounts of plastic trim?


Notice that it states “Storage Group S-2 occupancies include, *among others*, buildings used for...” The bold font portion means that the text that follows what I quoted above is not describing the sole defining features of a Group S-2 occupancy—there are other features (not described) that also fit the Group S-2 occupancy. There are many things that can be stored and the code cannot list them all, so the description in Section 311.3 helps the code user to narrow down what can and cannot be in Group S-2 that isn’t already listed.

Now, I do have to revise my decision based on the storage of boats—I didn’t see that Group S-1 included dry boat storage, so if both vehicles and boats are located in the same space, then the most restrictive (i.e., Group S-1) would apply. If boats were stored separately from the RVs/campers/ATVs, then you could have a multiple occupancy building consisting of Groups S-1 and S-2.


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## cda (Jun 21, 2019)

So back to op.

18,000 sq ft

If it is a S-1 what fire protection is required


If it is a S-2 what fire protection is required

Either one requires a fire sprinkler system?


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## classicT (Jun 24, 2019)

If fire area exceeds 12,000sf, both occupancies require fire sprinklers.

*903.2.9 Group S-1*
An _automatic sprinkler system _shall be provided throughout all buildings containing a Group S-1 occupancy where one of the following conditions exists:
1. A Group S-1 _fire area _exceeds 12,000 square feet (1115 m2).
...​*903.2.10 Group S-2 Enclosed Parking Garages*
An _automatic sprinkler system _shall be provided throughout buildings classified as enclosed parking garages in accordance with Section 406.6 where either of the following conditions exists:
1. Where the _fire area _of the enclosed parking garage exceeds 12,000 square feet (1115 m2).​


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## Sifu (Jun 24, 2019)

Based on my research (unconfirmed at this point) the building is a IIIB.  So if I am reading this correctly, at 18,000s.f., an S-2 could be allowed without sprinklers if the space is divided into approved fire areas, but as an S-1, the size would require sprinklers either way.  Plus, all other concerns aside, I need to have the correct classification for the building.  

Ron's assertion that it is no different from a parking garage is the reason I asked the question.  I do not know of anywhere the code specifies how long a car should be parked in a building for that building to be considered a parking garage but it seems like the intent is for transient storage as opposed to long term, which carries with it the concerns over the lack of observation.  In other words could a situation develop that would go un-noticed in an enclosed building (like mini-storage) without frequent traffic and create an increased hazard that might otherwise be less hazardous in a building that had frequent traffic.  But I may be wrong in that and would like some additional documentation if I were to enforce it that way.  Over the weekend I read a little more deeply into the business plan (I know...get a life), and they make the following statement under the services section "Look into storage for PODS until car storage fills up".  I think this would move it firmly into the S-1 classification.  Either way, this is a good discussion.  Better at least than everybody saying it is a stupid question!


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## classicT (Jun 24, 2019)

Sifu said:


> Based on my research (unconfirmed at this point) the building is a IIIB.  So if I am reading this correctly, at 18,000s.f., an S-2 could be allowed without sprinklers if the space is divided into approved fire areas, but as an S-1, the size would require sprinklers either way.  Plus, all other concerns aside, I need to have the correct classification for the building.
> 
> Ron's assertion that it is no different from a parking garage is the reason I asked the question.  I do not know of anywhere the code specifies how long a car should be parked in a building for that building to be considered a parking garage but it seems like the intent is for transient storage as opposed to long term, which carries with it the concerns over the lack of observation.  In other words could a situation develop that would go un-noticed in an enclosed building (like mini-storage) without frequent traffic and create an increased hazard that might otherwise be less hazardous in a building that had frequent traffic.  But I may be wrong in that and would like some additional documentation if I were to enforce it that way.  Over the weekend I read a little more deeply into the business plan (I know...get a life), and they make the following statement under the services section "Look into storage for PODS until car storage fills up".  I think this would move it firmly into the S-1 classification.  Either way, this is a good discussion.  Better at least than everybody saying it is a stupid question!


Well put, and  thanks for the topic. Always enjoy a good challenging question where multiple perspectives are shared.


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## mtlogcabin (Jun 24, 2019)

I went with the S-1 classification because of the boats and ATV's and I might assume watercraft.
We have indoor storage here and they stack the watercraft and snowmobiles 3 high in a 16 ft tall building. Boats stay on the trailers and nobody stores an ATV we use them year round.


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## RLGA (Jun 24, 2019)

Duration of parking is not an element of classifying parking structures. That said, there is an issue regarding the classification of "commercial motor vehicles" per the IBC definition. A Class C recreational vehicle (RV) may or may not exceed the gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 lb; however, every Class A RV I looked at is well over that threshold. So if any large RVs are intended to be stored, whether the building is classified as Group S-1 or Group S-2, a sprinkler system will be required _throughout the building _if the fire area exceeds 5,000 sq. ft. (Ref. Section 903.2.9, condition 4, and Section 903.2.10.1 -- 2018 IBC).


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## Sifu (Jun 24, 2019)

Per the business plan, there are no large vehicles but I will include the limitations by the definition in my discussions for good measure.  The limitations they provide are that all vehicles must fit within a 8' x 17' space, and they list the "approved" vehicles (see previous post).  Based on the information I currently have I still believe it is an S-1.  My hope is that it is suppressed and classification will just be a formality but I like to be prepared.


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## Sifu (Jun 24, 2019)

For the record and to satisfy my own nerdiness, when does "parking" become "storage"?  The best analogy I can think of off the top of my head is from the IRC.  An enclosed and accessible area under a stair requires a greater level of protection than an open area under a stair.  So is the can of paint thinner merely "parked" under the open stair, whereas the paint thinner is "stored" under the enclosed stair?  Dictionary definitions don't help, both refer to an unspecified time.


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## cda (Jun 24, 2019)

Storage is storage??

No time element involved ??


Storage Group S occupancy includes, among others, the use of a building or structure, or a portion thereof, for storage that is not classified as a hazardous occupancy.


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## mtlogcabin (Jun 24, 2019)

2018 IBC

[BG] OPEN PARKING GARAGE. A structure or portion of a structure with the openings as described in Section 406.5.2 on two or more sides that is used for the parking *or storage* of private motor vehicles as described in Section 406.5.3.

510.3
5.    The Group S-2 enclosed parking garage is used exclusively for the parking *or storage of private motor vehicles*

[F] 903.2.10.1 Commercial parking garages.
An automatic sprinkler system shall be provided throughout buildings *used for storage of commercial motor vehicles* where the fire area exceeds 5,000 square feet (464 m2).


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## cda (Jun 24, 2019)

Unless this parking thing is clear to everyone, seems like a good code writer needs to write some clear code,

And would be nice if all in one place.


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## Sifu (Jun 25, 2019)

Interesting there does not appear to be a similar definition for enclosed parking garages.  I also realized another difference in code requirements between an S-1 and an S-2.  IBC 406.4.5 requires a sloped floor unless it is an S-2.  Since I think this was a former manufacturing building that might be an issue.


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## Builder Bob (Jun 26, 2019)

SIfu, Because in IBC section 406.4 indicates that Parking Garages except private shall be classified as open or closed. If a definition is given for open parking garage and you don't meet these requirements; then, obviously you are an enclosed parking garage.


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## Laurel C (Mar 17, 2020)

So we have an S-2, RV storage building that is almost constructed, they have sprinklers, they have just submitted to Condo all the units. would the "airspace ownership " kick this over to a private garage and require the 1-hour separation between units, as long as each unit is under the 1,000 SF? or does it stay the S-2 with just the metal between units?


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## classicT (Mar 17, 2020)

Laurel C said:


> So we have an S-2, RV storage building that is almost constructed, they have sprinklers, they have just submitted to Condo all the units. would the "airspace ownership " kick this over to a private garage and require the 1-hour separation between units, as long as each unit is under the 1,000 SF? or does it stay the S-2 with just the metal between units?


I'd argue that it should of always been an S-1.

S-2 parking garages are truely that, a parking garage. Storage of boats, RV, motorized sports equipment, etc. should fall under an S-1.

S-1 is specified as:

*311.2 Moderate-Hazard Storage, Group S-1*
Storage Group S-1 occupancies are buildings occupied for storage uses that are not classified as Group S-2, including, but not limited to, storage of the following: ...​
S-2 is specified as:

*311.3 Low-Hazard Storage, Group S-2*
Storage Group S-2 occupancies include, among others, buildings used for the storage of noncombustible materials such as products on wood pallets or in paper cartons with or without single thickness divisions; or in paper wrappings. Such products are permitted to have a negligible amount of plastic _trim_, such as knobs, handles or film wrapping. Group S-2 storage uses shall include, but not be limited to, storage of the following: ...​
With the tremendous amount of fuel loading associated with boats, ATV's, and RV's (think plastics, gas, LP tanks, firewood, compressed bug spray, etc.), the hazard is not similar in nature to the defining characteristics provided in 311.3 (above). S-2 is "for the *storage of noncombustible materials* such as products on wood pallets or in paper cartons with or without single thickness divisions; or in paper wrappings. Such products are *permitted to have a negligible amount of plastic trim, such as knobs, handles or film wrapping.*"

Like boats, most RV's on today's market are predominantly clad in plastics, fiberglass, and other synthetic materials that are highly combustible. By comparison, conventional automobiles are predominately metal skinned with glass. This is not to say conventional cars pose a low fuel load, but they are not as readily ignitable as a boat/RV/ATV/etc.


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## cda (Mar 17, 2020)

Laurel C said:


> So we have an S-2, RV storage building that is almost constructed, they have sprinklers, they have just submitted to Condo all the units. would the "airspace ownership " kick this over to a private garage and require the 1-hour separation between units, as long as each unit is under the 1,000 SF? or does it stay the S-2 with just the metal between units?




Welcome

Your first question is supposed to be easy,,
Like 1+1=

Give it a day or two for responses

S-1 for sure


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## cda (Mar 17, 2020)

I am thinking no one hour not required.

Will you cite the section you are looking at.


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## Laurel C (Mar 17, 2020)

I apologize it was issued as an S-1 with Sprinklers, so as long as it met the S-I with sprinklers, the IBC 508.4 table comment for S-2 (b) for min 1-hr for vehicles does not apply, regardless of the ownership of the air space.


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## classicT (Mar 17, 2020)

cda said:


> I am thinking no one hour not required.
> 
> Will you cite the section you are looking at.


They are looking at:

*406.3 Private Garages and Carports*
Private garages and carports shall comply with Sections 406.3.1 through 406.3.6.

*406.3.1 Classification*
Private garages and carports shall be classified as Group U occupancies. Each private garage shall be not greater than 1,000 square feet (93 m2) in area. Multiple private garages are permitted in a building where each private garage is separated from the other private garages by 1-hour _fire barriers_ in accordance with Section 707, or 1-hour _horizontal assemblies_ in accordance with Section 711, or both.​

*PRIVATE GARAGE.* A building or portion of a building in which motor vehicles used by the tenants of the building or buildings on the premises are stored or kept, without provisions for repairing or servicing such vehicles for profit.
​Again, I'd argue that this type of building is not provided for parking, but for long-term storage and is therefore an S-1 use. Separation need not be provided between individual storage bays (similar to storage locker buildings), unless required for fire area compartmentalization (via fire barriers or fire walls).


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## classicT (Mar 17, 2020)

And for all to note, pay particular attention to the following highlighted portion of the definition.

*PRIVATE GARAGE.* A building or portion of a building in which motor vehicles *used by the tenants of the building or buildings on the premises are stored or kept*, without provisions for repairing or servicing such vehicles for profit.​
Note that the garage is associated with an on-site building providing the primary use? This is further indication that parking garages are that, a place to park for short term. Long-term storage of vehicles (RV, boat, etc.) is not the same.


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## Rick18071 (Mar 17, 2020)

So are trailers that don't have a motor, motor vehicles? flatbeds, campers, tankers, 40' reefer, boat trailers, dump trailers, mobile homes


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## classicT (Mar 17, 2020)

Per 49 CFR 390.5...

Motor vehicle means any vehicle, machine, tractor, trailer, or semitrailer propelled or drawn by mechanical power and used upon the highways in the transportation of passengers or property, or any combination thereof determined by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, but does not include any vehicle, locomotive, or car operated exclusively on a rail or rails, or a trolley bus operated by electric power derived from a fixed overhead wire, furnishing local passenger transportation similar to street-railway service.


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## Rick18071 (Mar 19, 2020)

Had a new fire house that wanted to appeal the required sprinklers. Then they decide that it would't look good to do that and put them in.


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## Rick18071 (Mar 19, 2020)

Ty J. said:


> Per 49 CFR 390.5...
> 
> Motor vehicle means any vehicle, machine, tractor, trailer, or semitrailer propelled or drawn by mechanical power and used upon the highways in the transportation of passengers or property, or any combination thereof determined by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, but does not include any vehicle, locomotive, or car operated exclusively on a rail or rails, or a trolley bus operated by electric power derived from a fixed overhead wire, furnishing local passenger transportation similar to street-railway service.



How about construction and mining machinery like backhoes, tractors, dumps, trailer movers, etc. that never go on highways in the transportation of passengers or property?


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## BayPointArchitect (Mar 19, 2020)

My weed whacker has a full tank of gasoline.  But my garden shed is not constructed with the same level of special attention suggested within this thread.  Statistically speaking, when a passenger vehicle catches fire, it damages the surrounding vehicles but it is unlikely that the entire parking garage is going to become a total catastrophe.  The thinking related to the "commercial vehicle" with a gross weight of 10,000 lbs is related to the fact that those vehicles typically have large fuel tanks.  Meanwhile, it is rare for a fuel tank to explode under any circumstance.  Unless you are driving a Gremlin and get rear-ended.

Wash your hands.

Don't let your neighbors get too close to you.

Don't drive a Gremlin.

S-2 or S-1 occupancy.  Whichever is most convenient.


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## RLGA (Mar 19, 2020)

I think you meant the Ford Pinto.


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## cda (Mar 20, 2020)

Ok my person from outer space,PC, is in town,,,

Can they park their starship in this garage?? Or does it require sprinklers?


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## Rick18071 (Mar 20, 2020)

BayPointArchitect said:


> The thinking related to the "commercial vehicle" with a gross weight of 10,000 lbs is related to the fact that those vehicles typically have large fuel tanks.



I don't understand why more restrictions on "commercial vehicles" because most commercial vehicles are diesel which doesn't explode and is much harder to start burning.


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## Rick18071 (Mar 20, 2020)

So does anyone check for this:

2015 IFC
314.4 Vehicles. Liquid- or gas-fueled vehicles, boats or other
motorcraft shall not be located indoors except as follows:
1. Batteries are disconnected.
2. Fuel in fuel tanks does not exceed one-quarter tank or 5
gallons (19 L) (whichever is least).
3. Fuel tanks and fill openings are closed and sealed to
prevent tampering.
4. Vehicles, boats or other motorcraft equipment are not
fueled or defueled within the building.


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## BayPointArchitect (Mar 20, 2020)

Rick18071 said:


> So does anyone check for this:
> 
> 2015 IFC
> 314.4 Vehicles. Liquid- or gas-fueled vehicles, boats or other
> ...



No.  I do not.  But that language is familiar to me while dealing with salvage vehicles.  We require that the battery be disconnected and the fuel tanks emptied on salvage vehicles - regardless of being parked inside or outside a building.

Section 314 of the IFC is titled "Indoor Displays".  I would interpret this as being a large warehouse full of motor homes and boats that are for sale and frequented by folks who are invited to come inside and look at them.  Any large auto dealership would have a vehicle showroom with their latest 2020 models  proudly displayed on a white porcelain tile floor.  But I have never thought to ask if the fuel tank was empty or the battery disconnected.


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## cda (Mar 20, 2020)

BayPointArchitect said:


> No.  I do not.  But that language is familiar to me while dealing with salvage vehicles.  We require that the battery be disconnected and the fuel tanks emptied on salvage vehicles - regardless of being parked inside or outside a building.
> 
> Section 314 of the IFC is titled "Indoor Displays".  I would interpret this as being a large warehouse full of motor homes and boats that are for sale and frequented by folks who are invited to come inside and look at them.  Any large auto dealership would have a vehicle showroom with their latest 2020 models  proudly displayed on a white porcelain tile floor.  But I have never thought to ask if the fuel tank was empty or the battery disconnected.




Car shows at the convention center, and yes we did use to check for those, in the city that had a large convention center


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## steveray (Mar 20, 2020)

BayPointArchitect said:


> Unless you are driving a Gremlin and get rear-ended.
> 
> Wash your hands.
> 
> ...



Don't bash the Gremlin....Especially not the Gremlin X with the V8....


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