# Public Administration - You Thoughts, Opinions



## momcat (Mar 6, 2015)

Public Administration Degree - these programs teach people how to relate to and how to administer ordinances and rules to the public. In researching the courses of this Bachelor's Degree program at different universities, I have found there are no classes in Architecture, Construction, Engineering or the trades.

The subject has arisen and will be adopted by our jurisdiction - who is qualified to do a Plan Review.

The list includes people who have an Architecture, Engineering, Construction or Public Administration 4 year degree.

Architects, Engineers and Construction people are assumed to know the code but have to learn how to deal with the public in reguards to legal and administrative issues.

Public Administrators are people who are assumed to know legal and administrative issues but have to learn the code and pass their certifications.

The way this is writen, management can hire a Public Administrator with no code or construction background, to do plan reviews. If you have ever been an inspector, you might have been the victim of a rotten plan review, only to have to deal with the violations (that should have been caught on paper) out in the field.

I think certifications are great, but it would be nice to know how to do your job before you accept it. And nice for the other inspectors and plan reviewers who will now have to carry you until you actually can do the job.

Momcat - stirring the pot....


----------



## cda (Mar 6, 2015)

Well is the city going to pay for having the required degree??

How about some options as in an AA degree in related field with so many years doing plan review

Or Bachelors degree in related field with so many years doing plan review

Or  certs with so many years doing plan review

Is plan review all the person will be doing??? And not running the office


----------



## steveray (Mar 6, 2015)

Depending on the laws of your jurisdiction, they can make Walt the janitor the building official with no relevant qualifications. Here we have our own state licensing program and a statute that says you must be a BO, and a town must have a BO. The town can then require what ever degree they like as well...


----------



## momcat (Mar 6, 2015)

cda said:
			
		

> Well is the city going to pay for having the required degree??  - that has not been mentionedHow about some options as in an AA degree in related field with so many years doing plan review - good
> 
> Or Bachelors degree in related field with so many years doing plan review - good
> 
> ...


 - good question. Bet not, after all, they do have their degree in Administration. Anyone can do a plan review but you must have your Public Admin degree to be a Manager - snarkThat's the catch words "In a Related Field"


----------



## momcat (Mar 6, 2015)

steveray said:
			
		

> Depending on the laws of your jurisdiction, they can make Walt the janitor the building official with no relevant qualifications. Here we have our own state licensing program and a statute that says you must be a BO, and a town must have a BO. The town can then require what ever degree they like as well...


There are CBOs doing plan review who will not qualify........sad


----------



## north star (Mar 6, 2015)

*= & = & =*

momcat,

Long time no post........Good to see you back.   :-D

IMO, Public Administrators are more of a PR related field, rather

than to have expertise in a particular construction related discipline.

There are BO's who can pass a test, but not have any "real world"

related experience........The same statement applies to [ almost ]

any career that no one has actually practiced for a few years.

Remember, not all medical students graduate at the top of their

classes.......Do you still want one of them giving you sound medical

guidance ?

Back on topic, ...the Public Administrators that I have associated

with did not know much about construction, but rather, ...were

[ somewhat ] more proficient at being in front of a camera or

microphone.

Since you are asking; and stirring the pot, I would not

recommend *ANY* Public Administrator to perform plans reviews.

Let `em stay in front of the cameras..........Maybe they won't

kill anyone that way, ...maybe.



*& + & + &*


----------



## Frank (Mar 7, 2015)

Having done my graduate and postgraduate studies in Public Administration and Public Policy, I can say that the Public Administration degree would be good background for supervisors and managers in the public sector.  PA gives good background on how government and nonprofits work and how to deal with and manipulate both the public and elected officials.  That said it does NOT convey any building related technical knowledge.  My Engineering undergraduate degree did provide a technical background but did not mention building codes and only minimally touched on some ACI and ASTM standards.   Even an engineering grad will require code training.  The PA degree is like a business degree, teaches you how a business functions, but nothing about the technical aspects.


----------



## mark handler (Mar 7, 2015)

What state are you in? Can't be CA, They require education, licesure and/or certs

Health and Safety Code Section 18949.28 reads in part, "All construction inspectors, plans examiners and building officials who are not exempt from the requirements of this chapter pursuant to subdivision (b), or previously certified, shall complete one year of verifiable experience in the appropriate field, and shall, within one year thereafter, obtain certification from a recognized state, national, or international association, as determined by the local agency." Subdivision (b) exempts employees who were employed two years before the enactment of Section 18949.28 (added by Chapter 623 of the 1995 Statutes, effective January 1, 1996).

...There are numerous certifications to attest to a person’s skills and knowledge necessary to perform building plan examination, and building inspection..

California licensed architects and engineers performing plan examination,  construction inspections, or building official duties are exempted from the Certification requirements of Health and Safety Code Section 18949.28. However, it is a good practice to require engineers and architects to have training in building codes.


----------



## Frank (Mar 7, 2015)

Certification is required in VA and many other states to be obtained within some time period after you take the job.  The certification in VA requires taking some state classes on the codes and administrative provisions and passing a code knowledge test (typically ICC).  You have a year that you can review plans or inspect without being certified.  For most college graduates passing the test is easy as the items are straight out of the code book.  You do not have to know what a thingamagig is or how to install it to pass the test, just what the code says about it.


----------



## Keystone (Mar 7, 2015)

Pennsylvania requires commercial plan review certs in appropriate categories. As much as I may bitc_ about certs to myself, I do feel its necessary.

Public Admin degree alone, IMO not acceptable.


----------



## jdfruit (Mar 9, 2015)

My experience is that Public Administrators only know about how to develop policies and unless they came from a construction background are clueless and don't have the backbone necessary for code enforcement.


----------



## momcat (Mar 9, 2015)

" Local unit plans examiners that are not registered design professionals shall obtain and maintain the certifications described insections ©(1) both a Building Plans Examiner certification and a Certified Building Code Official designation, Or ©(2) a registered design professional Or have a Building Plans Examiner Certification, and have a Bachelor's Degree in a related field, such as Architecture, Construction Science, Public Administration, or structural or building systems Engineering, OR 5 years experience in a construction related field such as building inspection, fire inspection or contracting."

I'd like to see it read "have a Building Plans Examiner Certification, AND have a Bachelor's Degree in a related field, such as Architecture, Construction Science, or structural or building systems Engineering AND 5 years experience in a construction related field such as building inspection, fire inspection or contracting."

Discussing "legal and administrative issues" with some of the job superintendants I know, I'd like to buy a ticket to that conversation.


----------



## steveray (Mar 9, 2015)

No degree....I would be out of a job....


----------



## JCraver (Mar 9, 2015)

steveray said:
			
		

> No degree....I would be out of a job....


Me too.

I'm new to this whole B.O. thing, but I can't see a degree being a requirement for my particular position, in my particular town (or any of the numerous similar towns throughout my State).

I do everything from Plan Reviews, to building & pm inspections, to zoning, planning, etc.  The only qualification I had when I took the job was ~15 years in the trades.  I've since become a CBO & MCP, but didn't have a single cert. nor a degree before I started here.  The simple truth is that a degree (prior to employment) would price me out of the budget of this and many other similar towns.


----------



## Rick18071 (Mar 10, 2015)

Public Administration - You Thoughts, Opinions

Don't get paid enough to have a degree.


----------



## momcat (Mar 11, 2015)

Thanks for all the opinions. I think that having a trade should be the most important qualification.


----------

