# Private vs Public



## jdfruit (May 4, 2015)

Discussion started on a different topic;

Plus/delta welcome here for "generic" private company versus public for building dept services (and other services if you want)


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## ICE (May 4, 2015)

My gut feeling is that private building dept. services companies cut a fat hog.  I say that not from first hand knowledge of the contractors business but I do have first hand knowledge of how the government can plss away large amounts of money.

It started years ago.  I was an inspector at facilities that produced satellites and later testing all manner of stuff that the government bought.  Come to think about it, I was trouble back then too.

Some light entertainment.


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## MASSDRIVER (May 4, 2015)

ICE said:
			
		

> Some light entertainment.


I have a new God.

Brent


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## JBI (May 5, 2015)

_'...cut a fat hog.'_

That was a new one for me... Fortunately the internet makes learning a new expression easy. And I agree.


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## jdfruit (May 5, 2015)

Here come da devil, here come da devil!

Ok, you get a percentage of the inspection fee, usually 75 to 80% then provide the on demand services required same as the public agency and take all customers (ranging from incompetent to some very competent) same as the public agency, provide the vehicles and expenses; so this is a "fat hog"?


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## cda (May 5, 2015)

jdfruit said:
			
		

> Here come da devil, here come da devil!Ok, you get a percentage of the inspection fee, usually 75 to 80% then provide the on demand services required same as the public agency and take all customers (ranging from incompetent to some very competent) same as the public agency, provide the vehicles and expenses; so this is a "fat hog"?


maybe depends on what the actual inspector is paid??  and how the contract is written?


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## ICE (May 5, 2015)

My AHJ pays per hour per employee.  What you are talking about is if the company takes on the role of Building Department.  I have seen that as well.  The fees go up and every little change or reason to send an applicant back to the plan checker results in more fees.  There's no such thing as a field decision.  Move a window a foot....resubmit your plans.....but it's a single story dwelling and the move didn't impact wall bracing....doesn't matter....go see the our plan checker and drop off some money.


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## FM William Burns (May 5, 2015)

> Government workers can't be fired without a mortal sin. Even then they can be "rehabilitated". Everybody knows that”.


Your wrong there……….I’ll opine when more time permits!


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## MASSDRIVER (May 5, 2015)

FM William Burns said:
			
		

> Your wrong there……….I’ll opine when more time permits!


It's not that they can't be fired, it's that it is so difficult to do it, relative to the private sector. There has to not only be a damned good reason, and the reason has to be very well documented. I won't say it is right or wrong, but if you are civil service or unionized, you're perspective is far different that some Joe without those resources afforded by government regulation. I've been fired twice, both when I was young and learning the ropes. I didn't even know why the first time, and nobody felt the need to give me a reason. The second time I was in the way of a senior employee, I knew it, he knew it, and that was the reason givin to me.

Just the fact that entire divisions are devoted to human resources makes it difficult to let some slugs go.

If you are a beneficiary of those resources your opinion may be skewed.

Brent.


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## JBI (May 5, 2015)

Most Public Employee Unions were intended to protect the good employee from the not-so-good administrator; to insure due process in the face of exaggerated (or possibly fabricated) complaints. _(My first jurisdiction had a Town Supervisor who kept telling me there were "A lot of complaints" about my Department. When asked what the complaints were, his response was "It doesn't matter." That I made someone follow the rules and they complained apparently had equal weight as complaint of incompetence._)

Sadly the downside is that those same rules make it harder to cull the dead wood.


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## steveray (May 5, 2015)

Brent, I think you are confusing big business and small business or union and non-union. Municipalities are more and more structured like a business these days. But a small town may not have a real HR dept, just like a small business. They may be union and they may not. Lots of things complicate firing people. Strictly working for a municipality (on it's own) is not one of them.


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## MASSDRIVER (May 5, 2015)

I'm generalizing of course.

Not all situations are alike.

I'm sure if you look hard enough under the rocks there are some fine civil servants.  

Brent.

Ps. If wife reads this I'm a dead man.


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## fatboy (May 5, 2015)

I agree with Brent, canning someone typically is a long, tedious process in  government settings. Unless they make easy for you, and that does happen. We are non-union BTW.


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## ICE (May 5, 2015)

Here's how it works.  I borrowed this from an actual occurrence.  Betty started showing up for work late every day.  30 to 40 minutes late.  After a while the manager took note and asked Betty to show up on time.  That didn't happen so several months into it Betty is given a verbal warning to shape up in thirty days, which is odd because you see, Betty already has one Helluva shape...hence the name Betty.

Well there is no improvement so here comes a written warning to again shape up in thirty days.  Poor Betty is thinking "What's a girl got to do to get over on this?"  But she Shirley ain't getting any better and thirty days later comes the thirty day drop dead, you will be fired warning.

Along with that shape, God gave Betty enough sense to know when to fold 'em.  On day twenty-nine she was on time for work for the first time in five months.  All is forgiven and the clock stopped ticking.  That's our Betty....she has a shape that can stop a clock.


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## conarb (May 5, 2015)

Now Tiger, you know that Betty's shape has nothing to do with it, Betty is protected by the Civil Rights act, the employer has to provide special accommodations for her just like they do for the "disabled" and certain ethnic and racial minorities.  Let's face it, Betty has special times of the month that make her late, she also has her nails and hair to do in the mornings, being allowed to be 20 to 30 minutes late is a reasonable accommodation for her to take care of her 'special needs'.  Try firing a disabled, black, or female and you will pay a heavy price.


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## mtlogcabin (May 6, 2015)

2 guys in the trench, supervisor up on the ground not trench protection installed. Guys in the trench ask if trench protection is required supervisor responds yes but you will be done in about 30 minutes. OSHA walks up and fines the city. Trench workers get 3 days off with no pay. Supervisor is discharged. Yes it was well documented and yes it can happen very fast.

I also let an inspector go with a 30 day notice when the bottom fell out and there was not enough work to support the position. Enterprise funds can work differently then a general fund department. Yes it was a union position and they could not do a thing about it.


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## jdfruit (May 6, 2015)

The quickest one I had was a housing rehab rep for the low interest loan program (long ago defunct). He was making all his "rounds" with clients in the morning; then hiding the city car, changing clothes, getting in a pickup and working for a contractor in the next door city from noon to 4. Came back to car, washed up, and got to the office at 4:30 to finish paperwork. He did this about 2 weeks before I got complaints that clients couldn't reach him in the afternoon. With PD help I was able to get good documentation in about a week, including time cards; fired on the spot at 5pm the day I had the police investigation report in hand.


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## mstehlin (May 6, 2015)

In my personal experience, a public Building Dept with decent funding and good political support can do wonders for public relations.  They can help homeowners with questions about pools, decks, sheds, additions etc.  And a privatized Building Dept can be all about the price of the permit and the number of re-inspections, and they have no time to spend on clueless DIY homeowners.

IMO a public Building Dept is best for a jurisdiction with lots of residential and a Privatized Building Dept might be better for a jurisdiction with lots of commercial construction and very little residential construction.


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## ICE (May 6, 2015)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> 2 guys in the trench.


Where either of them named Phil


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