# City of Milwaukee reaches $3.4 million ADA settlement with feds



## mark handler (Jun 10, 2016)

City reaches $3.4 million ADA settlement with feds
http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwau...ttlement-with-feds-b99741858z1-382426111.html
From repairing sidewalks to fixing polling places, the City of Milwaukee faces a $3.4 million tab over the next three years to improve accessibility for people with disabilities.

The deal was struck this week and announced Thursday as the city reached a settlement with the U.S. Department of Justice to come into compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Under Project Civic Access, the DOJ has conducted investigations into cities and states across the nation to ensure compliance with the ADA.

"Cities and towns must comply with the ADA so that people with disabilities can use public entities and participate fully in their community — from enjoying parks and libraries, to accessing polling places and courthouses," said Principal Deputy Assistant Attorney General Vanita Gupta, head of the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division, in a statement released Thursday.

The changes laid out in the document range from hiring oral and sign language interpreters for the Milwaukee Police Department to installing more curb ramps on sidewalks to making changes to city buildings. The city must upgrade its 911 system and training procedures to better handle TTY calls.

According to a City of Milwaukee Fiscal Impact Statement, the changes in 2016 will cost around $592,000, and the changes in 2017 and 2018 will likely cost around $2.8 million.

The more than half a million being spent in 2016 will comprise $340,000 in capital improvements changes — roughly $60,000 to hire an ADA coordinator for the city — $150,000 for an IT consultant, and $180,000 for an independently licensed architect to survey buildings in the city.

The $2.8 million in 2017 and 2018 will be spent on $2 million in capital improvements, as well as salaries for the ADA coordinator, IT consultant, and architect.

Kathryn Block, an assistant city attorney, said the agreement was voluntary and not part of any litigation.

"The city obviously has demonstrated that we want to comply with our obligations under the Americans with Disabilities Act," Block said.

Block said the main thrust of the agreement involves city facilities, but it also "impacts other ways in which the city interacts with disabled citizens."

"Some of the things we need to do are things that involve door pressure changes," she said. "Some of the things are very small. Some of the things have to do with ramp slopes. And some things change over time. What was once an accessible ramp for a person in a wheelchair now is no longer compliant."

The architect will be tasked with surveying the remaining facilities in the city that the DOJ did not inspect. Block said the cost of changing the city's major buildings — City Hall, the Central Library and municipal buildings — has already been assessed. Even if the cost does rise, she said, "it's difficult to imagine that the worst is on the horizon."

The Department of Justice has been surveying cities nationwide as part of Project Civic Access, sometimes at random and sometimes after receiving complaints. Block said the city attorney's office had not been informed which of those led to the Milwaukee investigation.


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## ICE (Jun 12, 2016)

"The more than half a million being spent in 2016 will comprise $340,000 in capital improvements changes — roughly $60,000 to hire an *ADA coordinator* for the city — $150,000 for an *IT consultant*, and $180,000 for an independently licensed *architect* to survey buildings in the city."

Those guys will be around forever.  It will morph into a Department.  There will be assistants, clerks, inspectors and rent to pay.  Nobody in government cares....the money is free to them and they will have more coworkers to join the union.

"Even if the cost does rise," she said, "it's difficult to imagine that the worst is on the horizon."

Hold onto you hat lady....you're in for a ride down a slippery ramp.


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## JCraver (Jun 13, 2016)

Milwaukee doesn't already have an IT guy?  It's hard to imagine $150K/year for an IT guy just for ADA compliance - once he makes the website right, then what's he gonna' do?


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## RickAstoria (Jun 13, 2016)

IT for database administration. It's probably a database administrator/server administrator and IT guys get paid as good as lawyers and don't do much of anything. I don't see how they don't already have such a person but of course it isn't duties outlined in the contracts with the existing persons so they have to hire another JUST for this.

Go figure.


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## ICE (Jun 13, 2016)

JCraver said:


> Milwaukee doesn't already have an IT guy?  It's hard to imagine $150K/year for an IT guy just for ADA compliance - once he makes the website right, *then what's he gonna' do*?



Fix it.


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## conarb (Jun 13, 2016)

Why the independent architect, doesn't the city building department have inspectors who know this crap?


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## mtlogcabin (Jun 13, 2016)

JCraver said:


> Milwaukee doesn't already have an IT guy?  It's hard to imagine $150K/year for an IT guy just for ADA compliance -


Somebody's nephew needs a job.


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## conarb (Jun 13, 2016)

Jeff should notify Milwaukee and similarity affected AHJs, he should sell all of their inspectors Sawhorse memberships, with Mark's incessant ADA postings here any inspector will know more about ADA with a membership than 99% of the architects who could/would take the  position of surveying the city as an independent architect.


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## ADAguy (Jun 14, 2016)

"Free" enterprise, its the American way conarb, no body gives it away, even Sawhorse needs a dime or too and so do you, no?
Inspectors "are not" designers though they could assign city engineers to do it, if they weren't all laid off during the recession.


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## conarb (Jun 14, 2016)

ADAguy said:


> "Free" enterprise, its the American way conarb, no body gives it away, even Sawhorse needs a dime or too and so do you, no?
> Inspectors "are not" designers though they could assign city engineers to do it, if they weren't all laid off during the recession.


The law requires AHJs to have certified CASps on staff, architects designing buildings should know and understand the requirements, there is no need to duplicate these services.

You are right about the coming recession, even Goldman Sachs is predicting a global recession that is long overdue, at some point AHJs are going to have to lay off staff as building slows down, doing ADA work that they are trained to do could keep some employees occupied and the costs down.  CASps are not trained to design and engineer buildings, architects and engineers are, when a business needs ADA advice it should call an architect, in all cases that I have run up against with ADA work I've retained an architect, for liability reasons if nothing else, any business that does retain a CASp should get named on his E&O policy and the business is still going to have to retain an architect to design and specify the alterations, no business should hire a contractor without being named on his General Liability policy, as a contractor I wouldn't touch a project that included ADA work without being named on an architect's E&O policy, that's true of all work, but especially ADA work where people are suing left and right, no matter what your do even if everything is compliant there is the very real possibility of litigation that could cost the contractor tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees just to prove he's done the work in compliance with both federal and state accessibility standards, that's why only larger contractors can even get insurance to do ADA work.  ADA has become a goldmine for some, no sense to make it a goldmine for a whole other cottage industry.


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## ADAguy (Jun 15, 2016)

Con, approximately 50% of the CASp's are design professionals (Arch, Civils, Interiors) however unlike termite inspectors we don't inspect and then remove the barriers. Some may chose to do so but that removes their neutrality as to their findings. We are intended to observe, report and defer to others.
Yes, architecture has become a field relying on multiple specialists based on project size and type. Arch's are expected and tested to have a more than general idea as to what a project requires by determining scope. City inspectors are not trained and/or experienced at making that determination. Some grasp it and some don't.

The recent recession has decimated many senior staffers with many departments now choosing to seek outside consultants to staff their departments. Doing so has significantly depleted the institutional memory of many agencies.

It is critical to retain Historic knowledge of city infrastructure.


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## conarb (Jun 15, 2016)

ADAguy said:
			
		

> City inspectors are not trained and/or experienced at making that determination. Some grasp it and some don't.



But the law in question requires the AHJs to have certified CASps on staff, I'm already telling restaurants and other businesses that are terrified of anyone in a wheelchair, or other obvious disability entering their business to demand that their local building department come out and review their place of business for potential violations instead of paying a private CASp for something that the law requires be provided at cost by law.


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## ICE (Jun 15, 2016)

ADAguy said:


> Con, approximately 50% of the CASp's are design professionals (Arch, Civils, Interiors) however unlike termite inspectors we don't inspect and then remove the barriers. Some may chose to do so but that removes their neutrality as to their findings. We are intended to observe, report and defer to others.
> Yes, architecture has become a field relying on multiple specialists based on project size and type. Arch's are expected and tested to have a more than general idea as to what a project requires by determining scope. *City inspectors are not trained and/or experienced at making that determination*. Some grasp it and some don't.
> 
> The recent recession has decimated many senior staffers with many departments now choosing to seek outside consultants to staff their departments. Doing so has significantly depleted the institutional memory of many agencies.
> ...



The complication of ADA  comes from the half dozen sets of rules that apply to a building based on timeline, use, funding source etc.  The ADA part of it is a convoluted chapter 11 of the CBC.  Anyone that can read can figure it out.  Granted there is way too many numbers and the minutiae is ridiculous but Hells bells there's pictures....what more do you need.


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## conarb (Jun 16, 2016)

ICE said:


> The complication of ADA  comes from the half dozen sets of rules that apply to a building based on timeline, use, funding source etc.  The ADA part of it is a convoluted chapter 11 of the CBC.  Anyone that can read can figure it out.  Granted there is way too many numbers and the minutiae is ridiculous but Hells bells there's pictures....what more do you need.



You're right Tiger, it's more legal interpretation of regulations than any one person's interpretation, that's why an interpretation by the AHJ is much better than any one CASp and why I tell businesses to demand a report from their AHJ, in fact if you got three CASp's "Inspected" reports you'd get three different interpretations, that's why the reports that the poor businesses are buying only say: "Inspected".  The CASp guarantees nothing, he only purports to have inspected the property, follow his inspection at your one risk, if the AHJ issued the report and you were later sued at least you could defend on the basis that you in good faith followed the analysis as provided by the government.  Just think of my guy with the 7 hot dog businesses and all the money he spent for CASp Reports, he could spend several hundred thousand dollars performing the work called for in the report, and what if the report is interpreted to be wrong and he's still sued by some roving gimp.


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## ADAguy (Jun 16, 2016)

You pays your money and takes your chances, or not.

What are the odds you will be sued, probably less than being brought up on charges for contracting without a license.

How many after 25 years still haven't removed their barriers?

This is a case of the squeaky wheel being heard and responded to by the legislature.

A cottage industry has been created, yes and yet the disabled have far more access now then 25 years ago.


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## ICE (Jun 16, 2016)

conarb said:


> You're right Tiger, it's more legal interpretation of regulations than any one person's interpretation, that's why an interpretation by the AHJ is much better than any one CASp and why I tell businesses to demand a report from their AHJ, in fact if you got three CASp's "Inspected" reports you'd get three different interpretations, that's why the reports that the poor businesses are buying only say: "Inspected".  The CASp guarantees nothing, he only purports to have inspected the property, follow his inspection at your one risk, if the AHJ issued the report and you were later sued at least you could defend on the basis that you in good faith followed the analysis as provided by the government.  Just think of my guy with the 7 hot dog businesses and all the money he spent for CASp Reports, he could spend several hundred thousand dollars performing the work called for in the report, and what if the report is interpreted to be wrong and he's still sued by some *roving gimp*.


 
That should say "roving pimp"


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## conarb (Jun 16, 2016)

ADAguy said:


> You pays your money and takes your chances, or not.
> 
> What are the odds you will be sued, probably less than being brought up on charges for contracting without a license.



Well why do we have thousands of posts here about ADA, were someone to stumble into the forum they would think thye found an ADA forum.



> How many after 25 years still haven't removed their barriers?
> 
> This is a case of the squeaky wheel being heard and responded to by the legislature.



All Civil Rights law was meant to be a temporary redress of past grievances for racial segregation, Justice Brennan allowed an unconstitutional law to survive on the basis that this country had a compelling interest in ending racism, in 1971 Chief Justice Burger allowed it to continue because of the poor segregated education blacks were getting, in 2003 Justice O'Conner gave it until 2025 saying that this unconstitutional law had to end at some point in time, in the last affirmative action case you could just see Chief Justice Roberts rolling his eyes in disbelief, that Texas shool case is coming back this term.  Your saying businesses have had 25 years to remove barriers is the same as someone saying Blacks have had 52 years to pass IQ tests and learn to read and write.  The squeaky wheels are the disabled activist groups, they are spending many millions, if not billions, to buy their way through this discriminatory legislation.



> A cottage industry has been created, yes and yet the disabled have far more access now then 25 years ago.



At a cost of trillions of dollars to both private citizens and government agencies, people now called developmentally disabled, formerly imbeciles, morons, and idiots are now disrupting the school systems since separate has be found to not be equal, so the education of everybody else suffers as the teachers cater to low IQ people. Why do we need another cottage industry to profit off this unconstitutional law? Fortunately this latest law in California throws the burden to the Building Departments where it belongs.


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## ADAguy (Jun 17, 2016)

Nice to go through life with no infirmities Con (or have you). Do you have "any" empathy for your fellows? 
A Viking are you? Rape, pillage, plunder those less fortunate; how dare they rise up and defend themselves.

This is America, yes a laboratory for civil rights. Some experiments have worked, some haven't. Seen Hamilton yet?
Its playwright is a success because of his responses to adversity.


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## conarb (Jun 17, 2016)

ADAguy said:


> Nice to go through life with no infirmities Con (or have you). Do you have "any" empathy for your fellows?
> A Viking are you? Rape, pillage, plunder those less fortunate; how dare they rise up and defend themselves.
> 
> This is America, yes a laboratory for civil rights. Some experiments have worked, some haven't. Seen Hamilton yet?
> Its playwright is a success because of his responses to adversity.


As an 80 year-old I have friends using wheelchairs, walkers, and canes, none of them want anything to do with this insane law, it causes them to face hatred every time they go out, it's people like you and the lawyers profiting from this law that are to be despised.

I have to but up payment and performance bonds on buildings I build (every architect I work with requires it to protect their client and themselves), I think the solution to the CASp problem is to require that all of you put up a certificate of E&O insurance before you charge for any of your "Inspected" reports, that way if you miss something and the business does get sued they can come back and get damages from you.


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## ADAguy (Jun 17, 2016)

Octo, CASps have some level of immunity based on whether they are building officials or independents and then based on the terms and conditions of their agreements. Some of us carry E&O and some chose not too. Hopefully "your" buildings are all compliant and you "see" no need to have a CASp certification. By law we are not licensed only certified to provide a service. Until just recently SB269, there were no professional practice guidelines. The business practices of each CASp are subject to review but it is highly unlikely the state architect will chose to do so, given his lack of expertise in an area of responsibility that the legislature has placed upon him. Has he, can he pass the exam (smiling)?

You are choosing your bed to lie in each night.

I chose to do what I do with hopes that I am bettering access, not delaying it. Unlike some I don't advertise or seek to join lawyers who pursue bounties but defend those who have been sued (who didn't in most cases have their properties surveyed and barriers removed)     

Complain all you want but CASp is here and will out live all of us.


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