# double key dead bolt security doors



## peach (Dec 25, 2010)

I know that the Code doesn't allow them.

One of our clients leaves them in place until closing BECAUSE they just had a single cylinder security door breached ... (well, the bad guys kicked in the front door thru the security door).. and the refrigerator was stolen and taken out of the front door... they didn't bother to disconnect the water to the ice maker... thousands of dollars for the wood floor and drywall damage that ensued.

They nicely re-locked the single cylinder security door in place when they left..

In these neighborhoods, the double cylinder goes right back in place after the final inspection..

suggestions?


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## Uncle Bob (Dec 25, 2010)

Peach,

I am not sure I understand. The theives kicked in a door (with nobody home) that had a dead bolt. If they kicked the door in; then double key would not be effective either.

In Texas; several years ago; Governor Ann Richards signed a law that all rental property had to have an additional keyless deadbolt lock on all exterior doors. This was brought about because of a number of robberies, thefts and rapes by landlords and/or rental property employees that had access to keys of rental property while the tenant was home.

The idea of a double key dead bolt would be useful only if someone were inside the home; to use the key from the inside. Therefore an additional keyless deadbolt would be more appropriate; since no key would be required from the inside and the deadbolt could not be opened from the outside.

At the time; I had 18 mobile homes and 6 houses. Needless to say it was relatively expensive; but afforded our tenents more security while they were home; so, we ate the the loss without much fuss.

I have often thought that an underground link to neighborhood homes could be made that would notify the neighbors in the case of an illegal entry into a home. This would be relatively inexpensive; especially if the system was installed by the builder of a new housing section.

Just some ideas,

Uncle Bob


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## peach (Dec 25, 2010)

Hi UB,

If the double key deadbolt was installed, they couldn't have gotten in even after bashing the door in; they could just reach thru the bars and unlock the security door, help themselves to the appliances and leave....

thanks and happy holiday


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## brudgers (Dec 26, 2010)

peach said:
			
		

> suggestions?


The double key deadbolts are less expensive than fixing the social issues which make people believe they are required. Banning them is a foolish waste of scarce government resources and goodwill.


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## conarb (Dec 26, 2010)

Brudgers said:
			
		

> The double key deadbolts are less expensive than fixing the social  issues which make people believe they are required. Banning them is a  foolish waste of scarce government resources and goodwill.





			
				2007 CBC said:
			
		

> *1008.1.8 Door operations.* Except as specifically permitted by this section egress doors shall be readily openable from the egress side without the use of a key or special knowledge or effort.*1008.1.8.3 Locks and latches.*
> 
> 4. Doors from individual dwelling or sleeping units of Group R occupancies having an occupant load of 10 or less are permitted to be equipped with a night latch, dead bolt or security chain, provided such devices are openable from the inside without the use of a key or tool.
> 
> ...


Some of our AHJs require deadbolts to be interconnected with the door locks, and then others don't, my hardware supplier has a list of the pro and con jurisdictions.


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## mark handler (Dec 26, 2010)

Cant save them all







All you can do is enforce the code


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## RJJ (Dec 27, 2010)

Peach: This has been a problem for years! All you can do is tell them the code and educate them on the reasons why not to use them. Other then that there is no magic fix. I see it all the time.


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## GHRoberts (Dec 27, 2010)

I see we have a problem in what the code covers (again). It only covers the initial construction and then work that requires a permit.

Home owners can install any type of lock they want. Except in densely populated areas fires are overrated as dangers.

---

I never used to use locks on my doors. Currently I use them to protect myself from my neighbors who I fear more than criminals.


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## brudgers (Dec 27, 2010)

The problem is that the code attempts to regulate things that can't be regulated for all practical purposes.

That makes it bad code.


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## Mac (Dec 27, 2010)

The code regulates something that it can regulate:

"R311.4.4 Type of lock or latch. All egress doors shall be readily openable from the side from which egress is to be made without the use of a key or special knowledge or effort."

 I can't approve a new home not in compliance with the above. Hey we're tryin to save lives here. If people think they need to be locked in thier house, well that would be thier problem if they change the locks. My employers assets are covered.


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## brudgers (Dec 27, 2010)

Mac said:
			
		

> If people think they need to be locked in thier house, well that would be thier problem if they change the locks. My employers assets are covered.


Yes, the "trying to save lives here," is lip service.


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## LGreene (Dec 28, 2010)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1340753/Andrew-Vervoort-42-son-Matthew-10-die-chip-pan-house-fire.html


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## Mac (Dec 28, 2010)

brudgers said:
			
		

> The double key deadbolts are less expensive than fixing the social issues which make people believe they are required. Banning them is a foolish waste of scarce government resources and goodwill.


When the C. O. is approved, it includes the locks. My job is done.

Social unrest is way above my pay grade.


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## cda (Dec 28, 2010)

Security cameras


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## Frank (Dec 28, 2010)

Security

Big dogs outside to deter bad guys and to give warning time to pick up 12 Gauge.

Door locks

Devices to discourage the curious--have yet to find a "locked" or "Security door" that took as long as 2 minutes to open without keys from the exterior--most take less than 15 seconds.

Most doors--

Check to see if it is locked, Yup locked.  Apply boot-- door open--5 seconds.

Security metal door with high strength deadbolt set in steel plate bolted to door jamb.

Check to see if locked.  Get saw, Start saw--cut door, apply boot--door open in 2 minutes or less with alot more damage.

Instructor in forcible entry class repetedly drilled "Try before you pry" as it is embarassing to kick in an unlocked door.

Cameras

Pictures for insurance company to show what was taken.

Police

Respond after all is over to document and take names.


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## peach (Dec 31, 2010)

I work in an urban environment.. easy for bad guys to get from place to place...  new homeowner is adament she wants double keyed dead bolts for security.. (explain all the reasons that's a bad idea.. in one ear.. out the other)..

sometimes it's a waste of time and effort..


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## LGreene (Dec 31, 2010)

Double-cylinder deadlocks aren't allowed on required egress doors by our code in Massachusetts - even for 1- and 2-family dwellings:

http://idighardware.com/2010/11/double-cylinder-deadlocks-residential/


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