# Private Pools & ADA



## RJJ (Aug 3, 2011)

Here is an interesting issue. Does a Townhouse community, in need of bath rooms facilities for the pool area have to comply with A 117 when constructing new bath rooms? It appear that it could be consider a private pool and only available to thier owners and guests.


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## alora (Aug 3, 2011)

RJJ said:
			
		

> Here is an interesting issue. Does a Townhouse community, in need of bath rooms facilities for the pool area have to comply with A 117 when constructing new bath rooms? It appear that it could be consider a private pool and only available to thier owners and guests.


In Arizona, our state law dictates the requirements for pools and public pool facilities.

In the described type of community, this would be considered a "semi-public pool" and the bathrooms (if provided) would be required to meet A117.1.


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## alora (Aug 3, 2011)

May or may not be current ...

http://www.apsp.org/Public/Publications-Resources/Technical-Standards/Codes/index.cfm


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## mtlogcabin (Aug 3, 2011)

> It appear that it could be consider a private pool and only available to thier owners and guests.


Yes. The common areas need to meet accessibilty


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## Coug Dad (Aug 3, 2011)

Agree with mtlogcabin.  Similar to the pool deck at a condo project.  The common use areas need to be accessible.


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Aug 3, 2011)

RJJ said:
			
		

> Here is an interesting issue. Does a Townhouse community, in need of bath rooms facilities for the pool area have to comply with A 117 when constructing new bath rooms? It appear that it could be consider a private pool and only available to thier owners and guests.


IBC Chapter 11 does not specifically exempt community pools, and 1109.14.1 appears to require at least one recreational type facility be accessible.

in otherwords, and as everyone else has said.  yes it does.


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## north star (Aug 3, 2011)

*% % % %*

RJJ,

I also agree with the other esteemed forum contributors.

Common areas must comply with A117!

*% % % %*


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## Frank (Aug 3, 2011)

As relates to ADA and FHA a community center or pool open to all in a neighborhood does not qualify as a "Private Club".

Unless you can legally hang a "No Coloreds Allowed" sign, you have to remove barriers to the disabled.

From the ADA Title III Assistance manual

"III-1.6000 Private clubs. The obligations of title III do not apply to any "private club. " An entity is a private club for purposes of the ADA if it is a private club under title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, and national origin by public accommodations.

Courts have been most inclined to find private club status in cases where --

1) Members exercise a high degree of control over club operations.

2) The membership selection process is highly selective.

3) Substantial membership fees are charged.

4) The entity is operated on a nonprofit basis.

5) The club was not founded specifically to avoid compliance with Federal civil rights laws.

Facilities of a private club lose their exemption to the extent that they are made available for use by nonmembers as places of public accommodation.

ILLUSTRATION: A private country club that would be considered a "private club" for ADA purposes rents space to a private day care center that is also open to the children of nonmembers. Although the private club would maintain its exemption for its other operations, it would have title III obligations with respect to the operation of the day care center."


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## rshuey (Aug 3, 2011)

RJJ, it absolutely does. That's why the local townhouse project here scrapped the pool and clubhouse idea.


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## mtlogcabin (Aug 3, 2011)

_ADA definition_

_Public Use._ Describes interior or exterior rooms or spaces that are made available to the general public. Public use may be provided at a building or facility that is privately or publicly owned

The invited guest would be the general public


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## RJJ (Aug 3, 2011)

rshuey: I don't disagree. I was handed a letter this morning on this subject. The attorney has reference title III.  Their contention is that the pool is only used by guess and owners. Therefore private. Now I don't think this dog will hunt. So I am of the mind set for them to force the issue.

Now to boil it down to reality here is how it shakes out. They will build a new bath room? a given

They will need a sink!  wall hung proposed

They will need a Toilet!

The need three grab bars real big expense.

They need a mirror

Big Issue 5 radius oh they are building a new building for this!

2 Parking space and sign.

two sections of side walk to be adjusted for access to the pool. 4" curb line to be corrected.


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## Frank (Aug 3, 2011)

Couple more IBC notes

The IBC, unlike the ADA, does not exempt private clubs and religious organizations.

See also 1109.14 2009 IBC 2006 same

1109.14.4.5 does provide an exception for the raised diving board or platform not to be accessible.


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## Coug Dad (Aug 3, 2011)

Also, the ADA is not building code and building code is not ADA.  ADA is civil rights.  Building codes do not address civil rights.  If accessibility is required by the building code, then it is required regardless of public or private.


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## RJJ (Aug 3, 2011)

Coug Dad! I have the same thoughts! But the questions seems to hold some water. MT invited guess is the public I would also agree.

ADA is a standard applied through certain sections of the IBC so in some aspects civil rights creeps in! Does it not!


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## alora (Aug 3, 2011)

RJJ said:
			
		

> ... ADA is a standard applied through certain sections of the IBC so in some aspects civil rights creeps in! Does it not!


You're right, it does not.

Unless you think Section E109 means the ADA is "applied through ... sections of the IBC".


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## mtlogcabin (Aug 3, 2011)

The townhouse buildings may be IRC code but the public use/common areas are IBC regulated

IBC 2009

Chapter 11 PUBLIC-USE AREAS. Interior or exterior rooms or spaces that are made available to the general public.


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## mark handler (Aug 3, 2011)

*Once again some of you are off the mark, as it relates to the ADA rules.*

Areas within multifamily residential facilities that qualify as places of public accommodation are covered by the ADA if use of the areas is not limited exclusively to owners, residents, and their guests.

ILLUSTRATION 1: A private residential apartment complex includes a swimming pool for use by apartment tenants and their guests.

The complex also sells pool "memberships" generally to the public. The pool and restrooms qualifies as a place of public accommodation.

ILLUSTRATION 2: A residential condominium association maintains a longstanding policy of restricting use of its party room and  swimming pool to owners, residents, and their guests. Consistent with that policy, it refuses to rent the room to local businesses and community organizations as a meeting place for educational seminars.

The swimming pool, party room and restrooms are not a place of public accommodation.

ILLUSTRATION 3: A private residential apartment complex contains a rental office. The rental office and restrooms are a place of public accommodation.

Guests are NOT General Public according to the ADA.[/b]

On the other hand, the HUD Fair Housing Laws do apply, and The restrooms, swimming pool, under the Fair Housing Laws do need to be accessible.

*You all, if giving advice, need to read the scoping document for ADA and The Fair Housing Act*


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## Frank (Aug 4, 2011)

Any of the 3 paths you take  ADA as public accomodation, FHA as a common area feature, or IBC Building code and the referenced A117.1 the pool and the bath house have to be accessible.

A bona fide private club may discriminate under the Title III Civil Rights Act and the included ADA but would still have to provide accessibility for new construction or alterations under the IBC unless there are state or local ammendments providing an exception.


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## rshuey (Aug 4, 2011)

You're in PA. Tell them to pay 100 and go to the Accessibility Review Board


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## RJJ (Aug 4, 2011)

YA I know that! But I would like to hear more feed back! Also because your in PA I would like to talk to you on the subject. PM me and I will give you my cell!


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## rshuey (Aug 4, 2011)

Sounds good. PM on its way.


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Aug 4, 2011)

mark handler said:
			
		

> *Once again some of you are off the mark, as it relates to the ADA rules.**You all, if giving advice, need to read the scoping document for ADA and The Fair Housing Act*


I appreciate the information Mark, but I was not giving advice (felt included by the 'you all' statement), let alone on the ADA.  I am simply not qualified.  As you have stated before, we do not enforce the ADA, only the IBC (or other scoping mechanism) and the adopted standards, in my case ANSI A117.1-2003.  Your quotations are quite helpful and insightful, and I respect your comments.  To help me understand, does 1109.14 then not apply as this would not be a common/public recreation facility?


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Aug 4, 2011)

Frank said:
			
		

> Any of the 3 paths you take  ADA as public accomodation, FHA as a common area feature, or IBC Building code and the referenced A117.1 the pool and the bath house have to be accessible.A bona fide private club may discriminate under the Title III Civil Rights Act and the included ADA but would still have to provide accessibility for new construction or alterations under the IBC unless there are state or local ammendments providing an exception.


That was my thinking.  Start with your adopted codes, then go to FHA.  Am I misunderstanding Mark though.  It seems to me he is saying that IBC/ANSI would not require it, however FHA would.  I might be confused here.  Please help.


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## TJacobs (Aug 4, 2011)

What Frank says, plus a good reminder from mark handler...multiple gotchas!


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## Big Mac (Aug 9, 2011)

While true that the ADA is not within the scope of the IBC, there are instances where one needs to access that code for direction.  I think that dealing with swimming pools is just one such instance.  For example, Section 1109.14.4.5 states "Where a recreational facility serves multiple buildings having Type A and/or Type B dwelling units, not less than one of each type of recreational facility shall be accessible."

The only exceptions with regard to accessibility for swimming pools or spas; is that raised diving boards or diving platforms need not be accessible.  Section 1109.14.4.5.

Since the ICC A117.1 Design Standard does not have directions for providing accessibility, it is logical to the Americans with Disabilities Act for direction in providing the appropriate design.

At least two accessible means of entry must be provided for every swimming pool.  Primary means must be a pool lift that is capable of being independently operated by a person with a disability or a sloped entry.  Secondary means may be pool lift, sloped entry, transfer wall, transfer system, or pool stairs.  ADA, Section 242.2.

•	Exception:	Swimming pools with less than 300 linear feet of pool wall must provide at least one accessible means of entry.  That one accessible means must be by Pool lift or sloped entry.

Spas must provide at least one accessible means of entry.  That means must be by pool lift, transfer wall, or transfer system.  ADA, Section 242.4.

Pool lift requirements as specified in ADA, Section 1009.2.

	A pool lift must be located where the water level does not exceed 48”.

	In the raised position, centerline of the seat must be located over the deck and not less than 16” from the pool edge.

	The deck surface must not have a slope greater than 1:48.

	On the side of the seat opposite the water, a clear deck space of not less than 36” must be provided parallel to the seat of the lift.

	The seat height in a raised condition must be 16” minimum and 19” maximum above the deck surface.

	The seat width must be not less than 16”.  Footrest for the pool lift must be provided and must move with the lift.

	The lift must be capable of unassisted operation from the deck and the water levels.  Controls and operating mechanisms must be unobstructed when the lift is in use.  The operating controls must not require tight grasping, pinching, or twisting of the wrist.  Controls must not require more than five pounds of pressure to operate.

	Single person lifts must be capable of lifting at least 300 pounds.

Sloped entry requirements as specified in ADA, Section 1009.3.

	Sloped entry ramps must have a clear width of not less than 36” a, maximum slope of 1:12, and be slip resistant.  Bear in mind that personal wheelchairs may not be suitable for submerging in water due to batteries, motors and electrical components that could be damaged.

	Sloped entries must extend to a depth of not less than 24 and not more than 30” below the stationary water level to ensure buoyancy.

	Handrails must be provided on both sides of the sloped entry.

	Distance between handrails shall be placed with a clear space not less than 33” and not more than 38” clear between them.

	A landing is required at both the top and the bottom of the sloped entry.

	Landings shall be not less than 36” in width and 60” in length.

	Handrail extensions are required at the top landing but not the bottom.

	The top of the handrail must be 34” minimum and 38” maximum above the surface of the sloped entry.

	The grip area of the handrail must have a diameter of not less than 1 ¼” and not more than 2”.

	The gripping surface must be continuous along the length of the rail and unobstructed on the top and the sides

	The handrail shall be free of sharp or abrasive elements with rounded edges and be non-rotating.

	Clearance between the handrail and adjacent surfaces shall be not less than 1 ½”.

Big Mac


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Aug 9, 2011)

Big Mac said:
			
		

> Since the ICC A117.1 Design Standard does not have directions for providing accessibility, it is logical to the Americans with Disabilities Act for direction in providing the appropriate design.


Depends which ANSI/Standard you are using.  2003 does not.  2009 edition does.  1991 Federal Register does not.  As of March 15th, 2012 it will be as you noted, but not necessarily until then, depending on the adopted standard of the AHJ per the DOJ.


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## alora (Aug 9, 2011)

papio bldg dept said:
			
		

> depends which ansi/standard you are using.  2003 does not.  2009 edition does.  1991 federal register does not.  As of march 15th, 2012 it will be as you noted, but not necessarily until then, depending on the adopted standard of the ahj per the doj.


 icc a117.1-2009:



> 1101.1 scope. Recreational facilities required to be accessible by the scoping provisions adopted by the administrative authority shall comply with the applicable provisions of chapter 11.


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Aug 9, 2011)

alora said:
			
		

> icc a117.1-2009:


I made an assumption that the ANSI 2009, would use the 2009 IBC scoping.  That was an error on my part.

2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design: Chapter 2: Scoping

242 Swimming Pools, Wading Pools, and Spas

242.1 General. Swimming pools, wading pools, and spas shall comply with 242.

242.2 Swimming Pools. At least two accessible means of entry shall be provided for swimming pools.

Accessible means of entry shall be swimming pool lifts complying with 1009.2; sloped entries complying

with 1009.3; transfer walls complying with 1009.4; transfer systems complying with 1009.5; and pool

stairs complying with 1009.6. At least one accessible means of entry provided shall comply with 1009.2

or 1009.3.

EXCEPTIONS: 1. Where a swimming pool has less than 300 linear feet (91 m) of swimming pool

wall, no more than one accessible means of entry shall be required provided that the accessible

means of entry is a swimming pool lift complying with 1009.2 or sloped entry complying with 1009.3.

2. Wave action pools, leisure rivers, sand bottom pools, and other pools where user access is limited

to one area shall not be required to provide more than one accessible means of entry provided that

the accessible means of entry is a swimming pool lift complying with 1009.2, a sloped entry

complying with 1009.3, or a transfer system complying with 1009.5.

3. Catch pools shall not be required to provide an accessible means of entry provided that the catch

pool edge is on an accessible route.

242.3 Wading Pools. At least one accessible means of entry shall be provided for wading pools.

Accessible means of entry shall comply with sloped entries complying with 1009.3.

Advisory 240.2.2 Elevated Play Components (Continued). Play components that are

attached to a composite play structure and can be approached from a platform or deck (e.g.,

climbers and overhead play components) are considered elevated play components. These

play components are not considered ground level play components and do not count toward

the requirements in 240.2.1.2 regarding the number of ground level play components that

must be located on an accessible route.

Advisory 242.2 Swimming Pools. Where more than one means of access is provided into

the water, it is recommended that the means be different. Providing different means of

access will better serve the varying needs of people with disabilities in getting into and out of

a swimming pool. It is also recommended that where two or more means of access are

provided, they not be provided in the same location in the pool. Different locations will

provide increased options for entry and exit, especially in larger pools.

Advisory 242.2 Swimming Pools Exception 1. Pool walls at diving areas and areas along

pool walls where there is no pool entry because of landscaping or adjacent structures are to

be counted when determining the number of accessible means of entry required.


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