# My first SIP house :(



## Durant (Sep 24, 2012)

A young lady has recieved a permit to build a home.  She submitted a plan that had the layout of rooms and has poured the foundation.  At first she was going to have a house moved in on the slab foundation; then changed her mind and bought Structural Insulated Panels from this company, why advertises " Build it yourself it's easy";

http://www.raycore.com/

I called and asked for the manufacturer's layout and installation instructions; I got a how-to-install SIP panels brochure; but, not a  layout and all the panels piled up on the slab are the same size with no other parts, like joists, headers, rafters etc..  So, I called and asked her to give me the name of her framer; "It's me" she said excitedly, "Me and my friends are going to put it together on weekends".  I have a gun, but am out of ammo, so if you have a bullet (I only need one) it's for me; just kidding.  

I will be reading 2009 IRC, Section R613 tonight; but, I'm afraid that Bubbles is going to want me to lead the way through the process and *I don't do that*.  As stated above it's my first SIP house.

Ok, off my pitty pot.  Have any of you delt with Raycore or inspected their product installations?


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## fatboy (Sep 24, 2012)

Haven't seen a SIP house in around 8 years...........


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## GBrackins (Sep 25, 2012)

I've never dealt with Raycore, but I have worked with a local manufacturer on a couple of SIP homes. I'd recommend the following site for additional information:

http://www.sips.org/    Structural Insulated Panel Association


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## tmurray (Sep 25, 2012)

Raycore doesn't look like true SIPS. It looks like it has framing included in the panel itself, Kind of like a fusion of traditional framing and SIPS. The interesting part will be the corners.


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## Yankee (Sep 25, 2012)

Make sure that foam product gets covered on the inside : ) . . . been there done that


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## GBrackins (Sep 25, 2012)

all the sips I've worked with were osb inside and out, but they did have headers and other framing members installed within the panels. one company even installed conduit within the panels for all electrical outlets and switches. haven't seen them without the osb inside like in the raycore product.


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## brudgers (Sep 25, 2012)

There are SIPS systems which utilize nothing but sips except if the design requires beams and columns (floors roofs and walls can all be SIPS).

  Generally, it is probably easier for a lay-person to assemble a SIPS building than to build correctly out of wood.

  So I would suggest that you're probably saving yourself a good deal of the teaching experience.

  On the other hand, if there is no layout drawing, then I wouldn't approve it.


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## ewenme (Sep 25, 2012)

We are currently keeping an eye on a SIPs house that was built 30+ years ago; it is rotting from the peak of the roof down. The problem: identified that the SIPs were not 'sealed' correctly. The investigation is ongoing by the insurance company. The house changed hands about 18-24 months ago, and the symptoms of a problem surfaced. The extent of the issue goes beyond the short term; so 'who is at fault?' is a huge issue in this one. This only proves that the Devil is in the details. Not something "Bubbles" should be trying to execute herself or with 'friends' who are not astute about construction.

Brudgers: you can either be her mainstay or her worst nightmare. What other choices can you make?


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## north star (Sep 25, 2012)

*= = = = =*

Durant,

Bubbles is already in waaaaaaaaaaayyy over her head

and will need / require some competent assistance to

construct her SIPS structure.

You might offer the site that **GBrackins** submitted

above, and inform her to begin her graduate degree

of study that will be required to successfully complete

her project, ...or to cut her losses now and contract to

have a "site built" structure constructed.......Either way,

indicate to her *CLEARLY*, that you will not be able to

assist her with her upcoming wave of questions and

"How To's" on the SIPS..........You CAN tell her if it

is compliant or not, but not the actual "assembly of".

Also, for her to seek competent legal counsel [ if

that is even possible ] to protect her from the various

inscrupulous contractors that will be required to

assemble the SIPS package, and even if she decides

to have a site built structure constructed.

Essentially, since you are unable to assist her in the

actual "hands on" construction, provide some

suggestions / resources for her to consider.

FWIW, ...in the link that **GBrackins** provided,

there is a SIPS school [ <---  ???   ]

That school also has a link for "technical assistance".

*= = = = =*


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## Rio (Sep 25, 2012)

ewenme said:
			
		

> We are currently keeping an eye on a SIPs house that was built 30+ years ago; it is rotting from the peak of the roof down. The problem: identified that the SIPs were not 'sealed' correctly. The investigation is ongoing by the insurance company. The house changed hands about 18-24 months ago, and the symptoms of a problem surfaced. The extent of the issue goes beyond the short term; so 'who is at fault?' is a huge issue in this one. This only proves that the Devil is in the details. Not something "Bubbles" should be trying to execute herself or with 'friends' who are not astute about construction.


SIP houses normally have cathedral ceilings as they're so well insulated and it's an easy way to get more room.  If the roof/ceiling assembly SIP is not very carefully detailed out to have a really tight fit to ensure no air leakage if and when you get the scenario of cold air outside and warm and humid air inside (the normal condition in the winter), where there is air leakage there will be condensation; the more the air leakage the higher the rate of condensation.  There have been many cases where it was thought the roof was leaking but it was the warm air condensing and dripping, busily rotting away the OSB.  Definitely not a project for someone to learn on the job.


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## mtlogcabin (Sep 25, 2012)

> A. Installer Qualifications: Installer should be experienced in performing work with a degree of experience equal to conventional wood framing construction and other conventional construction methods and practices similar to that required for this project.


Pray some of her friends have experience.

ICE's home depot contractors may have some relatives in your area they could recommend.

Seriously try to steer her to hire a competant framer/contractor that can lead them on their weekend work parties.


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## Fort (Sep 25, 2012)

Sounds fun to me.

I would not approve the permit without a set of plans.

But I would see it as an opportunity, not a problem.


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## ICE (Sep 25, 2012)

Get pictures please.


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## Durant (Sep 26, 2012)

Thanks for all the input,

All I have right now is a foundation and a bunch of sips panels stacked up on the ground.  About 50 panels 4' X 8' X 5 1/2" and seven panels 4' X 8' X 3".  We are expecting rain this week.  

It's a small house of less than 1,000 sq ft..  I want to help; but this looks like a bad deal for the lady; and there is nothing I can do.

At work I can't get on photobucket but, I have it at home now;  will post pictures when there is something interesting to see.  One thing that may be disaterous is that according to the manufacturer mold is a definite problem if not installed correctly.  I can take the bs that comes with this job; but, something like this hurts deep inside.


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## conarb (Sep 26, 2012)

Durant:

Alaska had serious problems with SIPs, to research it Google "Alaskan SIPs problem", Joe Lstiburek investigated it and his conclusion was that they needed more caulking between the panels, yeah right, that's good for 7 years at best until the caulking drys out.  Here's some interesting information from the industry itself.


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## Chuck D (Apr 17, 2013)

I read your post and I have some experience with Ray-Core SIPs panels and thought I might throw in my 2 cents. I have lived in 2 Ray-Core homes and I built a DIY shed. I like the product because it is a blend of traditional stick framing and urethane foam insulation in a structural insulated panels form and that the structural strength comes from “real wood” studs, not glue and two sheets of OSB.  No special skills or equipment was needed, just some general framing knowledge and in regards to corners, it is simply traditional framing techniques but you can order a corner panel if you want. I had to use my own plans because the company doesn’t offer any but they helped me figure how many panels I needed.  I think the panels will work for most any design. I am aware of the problems with polystyrene and OSB, “sandwich” panels. That was one of the reasons I went with Ray-Core. If sandwich panels get wet and begin to rot, you lose your structural strength so I prefer to rely on studs to hold my house up.  But I guess no matter what you don’t want things getting wet and it is important that you seal everything up good.  I know that mold is a problem with polystyrene ( white foam) because of its high “perm rate” ( water absorption rate) but polyurethane ( yellow foam)  has a very low perm rate and so mold should not be a problem with the R/C SIPs. Besides, everyone knows polyurethane foam insulation has a much better r-value than polystyrene. My DIY project was easy and my builders seemed to like it and it seemed to go up really fast. The company has been great to work with.  My utility bills are super low.  I plan to downsize and build another R/C home soon. So you can see I’m a fan!


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## Chuck D (Apr 17, 2013)

There is a video on thier site that shows how to frame a wall.  Structural Insulated Panels Tech Data | RAYCORE SIPs


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## Mark K (Apr 17, 2013)

Without the facing panels on both sides these are not the SIPs contemplated in the codes.  This system should be permitted as normal wood frame construction.


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## fatboy (Apr 17, 2013)

I agree with Mark K. The only SIPS I have dealt with had facing on both sides.

Welcome to the Forum Chuck D!


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## Daddy-0- (Apr 27, 2013)

Yes, welcome Chuck. We did a timber frame house years ago that used sips panels for infill between the structural beams and posts. We had cut/burn channels in them for wiring etc and design lots of hidden chases for plumbing. We also were not comfortable nailing cedar lap siding into only osb so we hued and screwed furring strips on the outside. Ouch. This was obviously when sips panels were pretty new but they worked great for us. We even used them on the roof and secured them to the purlins with 8" timber locks. This was roughly 14 years ago.


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