# News Release from:...Sprinklers Are Too Darn High Party.... REALLY?!?



## forensics (Feb 12, 2012)

http://archives.postandcourier.com/archive/arch11/0411/arc041911824079.shtml

MONCKS CORNER CONSIDERS NEW FIRE STATION

Facility would serve Foxbank area, but might increase taxes

Town officials have annexed thousands of houses in new subdivisions along U.S. Highway 52 north of Goose Creek in the past few years.

The area is served by the Whitesville Rural Fire Department, which has a station about four miles to the west.

Moncks Corner Fire Chief David Miller and Mayor Bill Peagler say that's too far. They estimate it would take a firetruck about eight minutes to respond to a fire in Foxbank, where about 600 houses have been built just north of Cypress Gardens Road. They say it shouldn't take more than three or four minutes for a firetruck to reach a burning house.

Peagler is asking council to approve a new fire station in or near Foxbank, where 10 new houses a month are being built and 1,700 more are planned.

Several Foxbank residents have appeared at council meetings to support Peagler since the proposal came up last year.

The new station would cost about $800,000. Peagler and Miller also want council to approve $400,000 for a new firetruck for the main station at the municipal compl

The whole point that no self respecting anti life safety zealot will never acknowledge is when homes are sprinklered the local government ceases to be the primary fire protection provider and the homeowner takes personal responsibility for his home and family !

In the abouve case the 2,500  homes (tract) at about 1,400 sq ft each can be sprinklered for about 1,500 each not including the discounts for shared plumbing lines or insurance reductions.

Here is the total for those who are may be mathmatically challenged (you know who) 2,500 x 1,400 x 1.20 PSF = $4,200,000.00

The end result is that the BUILDERS were subsidized by the Town of Moncks Corner for the cost of the new fire station.

How much would that builder subsidy cost the citizens of this small town to build and operate  hmmmm lets see!

Initial hard cost for one ststion

Build fire station                     $800,000

Fire truck                               $400,000

Staff vehicles                          $  50,000

Support equipment                 $ 210,000

Hard cost of the fire station           $ 1,460,000

Recuring annual cost

Three firefighters (7shifts wk)  $735,000

Training and support               $  50,000

Fuel and maintenance             $  50,000

Regular annual cost                       $ 835,000

                                                         GRAND TOTAL FIRST YEAR   $2,295,000

               Time frame for break even for the Town with sprinklers    2.2 years

Total first year cost to the taxpayers in the Town of Moncks Corner

and susbidy to the builder to encourage him to build code substandard homes

Oh year and don't forget no fire service deaths and no civilian deaths so we can consider that cost savings

SO NOW WHICH SYSTEM OF FIRE PROTECTION IS REALLY THE BETTER DEAL (except of course from the builders perspective)


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## Mark K (Feb 12, 2012)

Suggest that even with sprinklers you will want a fire department.  There will undoutably be added costs to the existing fire district due to the many new houses.  The fire district will be asking the new houses to share in their existing costs and the additional costs resulting from servicing the new homes.

What does the County master plan say about future construction?  If this is a growth area and future construction can be expected does this not impact the need for a new fire station?  It would seem that the cost per house would go down.

Will the response time have an impact on fire insurence premiums?

The problem of buildings that do not comply with the code can be eliminated if you have a building department that effectively enforces the building code.


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## mark handler (Feb 12, 2012)

And I would assume they provide other services incuding EMS and rescue services


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## Architect1281 (Feb 12, 2012)

so show me average tax on those homes collected whats that payback about 6 weeks methinks


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## conarb (Feb 12, 2012)

Forensics:You keep giving prices from Dogpatch America, that's fine, require them in the backwards areas of the country,  $1,500 per house is absurd in a developed area, in my area I've repeatedly posted information showing water  meter cost upgrades of $135,880 per house, in my case the home I'm building is on a well and the fire marshal would have required three 5,000 gallon tanks on the property, my sprinkler bids averaged $200,000 including the tanks!  As to the cost of employing firemen, that is also absurd, in an article on the front page of our local paper another fire chief has retired at 50 years of age, I'm 76 years old and still working with no pension, retiring at 50 is criminal.



			
				Contra Costa Times said:
			
		

> Price, who has been serving  as a firefighter for 32 years, will receive a pension, based on 3  percent of the highest year's salary multiplied by the number of years  served.His base salary for 2011 was $208,104, said Gloriann Sasser, the fire district's finance supervisor. She  listed the add-ins for last year -- $9,398, administrative leave;  $5,688, hazardous materials pay; $16,458, longevity pay; $11,364,  management incentive pay; and $9,398, vacation cash out -- for a total  of $260,410 for Price's 2011 gross pay.Price's employer paid  $150,893 into his pension in 2010, according to figures in the Public  Employees Salaries Database, SF Area 2010, compiled by Bay Area News  Group."With 32 years of service, I believe my pension will be very similar to my working (gross) pay," said Price, 50¹


The scumbag spiked his pension his last year with:$9,398, administrative leave $5,688, hazardous materials pay$16,458, longevity pay$11,364,  management incentive pay$9,398, vacation cash outThat's $52,306 in pension spiking, and that is the third chief to retire in the same district to spike his pension and retire in the last few years since the papers started exposing the fire fraud.  His salary was $208,104 last year, he spiked it another $52,306, and the fire district paid another $150,893 towards his pension, and none of this includes his medical and other benefits. The scumbag has no college education, and is getting this kind of money, I'm sick of paying enormous taxes to support you guys, yet you keep repeating your lies using numbers from backwards parts of the country, it's hard to believe that South Carolina is that far behind the times.¹ http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_19929148?IADID=Search-www.contracostatimes.com-www.contracostatimes.com
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## mtlogcabin (Feb 12, 2012)

> The end result is that the BUILDERS were subsidized by the Town of Moncks Corner for the cost of the new fire station


ALL builders and developers along with every other business will pass all cost onto their consumers (homeowners). What you described is not a subsidization of an industry and as others pointed out FF spend their time doing other things than fighting fires.

My town gets maybe 5 or 6 actual fire calls per year that they have to pull a hose off of the truck for. The rest are EMS, auto accidents and the like


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## conarb (Feb 12, 2012)

I've read that the major cause of fires are cooking number one and smoking number two.  Look at the correlations between fire deaths by state, obesity rates by state, and smoking rates per state.  Note the high incidence of obesity in states with high fire deaths, ban fried cooking, it makes people fat and causes fires, we are in the process of banning smoking almost everywhere too, so ban that.


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## Mark K (Feb 12, 2012)

Some interesting numbers.

$1,460,000 / 2,500 = $584 per house to build fire station

$1,400 x 1.2  = $1,680  cost of sprinklers

$1.680 -$584 = $1,096 difference between building fire station and installing sprinklers.

$1,096 * 0.04 = $43.84 lost annual interest on the money spent on fire sprinklers at 4% interest.

  $835,000/ 2,500   = $334 per year operating cost of fire station per house

  $334 / (6/365)  =  $5.49  per year per house for fire since station is used for fires only 6 days per year.  The rest of the operating costs go to provide non-fire services.

Thus unless you will not have access to the other services fire departments provide it appears that it is cheaper to build and operate the fire station and not to install the fire sprinklers.


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## permitguy (Feb 13, 2012)

Drama, drama, drama . . .

forensics, installing sprinklers will not remove the need to build fire stations altogether, as you seem to be suggesting.  The closest station being that far away from so many homes is a bad idea, period.

conarb, did you happen to notice that the Fire Chief in your link is "retiring" as a technicality to ease financial burdens on the department?  He will continue to work for $1 per month salary.  The article provides no evidence of "padding" in his salary; they simply list the differentials over base pay that are common in many industries, including the fire service.  These were likely approved by elected officials at some point, and that's something the voters have the power to change if they so desire.  You sound as jealous as you do upset . . .

It would sure be nice if people would finally acknowledge that the cost argument has regional components that can't be argued nationwide.  Sheesh.


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## conarb (Feb 13, 2012)

Permitguy said:
			
		

> It would sure be nice if people would finally acknowledge that the cost  argument has regional components that can't be argued nationwide.   Sheesh.


That's my point, the mandate would have never passed if the actuall nationwide costs were included in the information provided by the Fire Sprinkler Coalition. I have friends in Southern California and their costs for sprinkers are a fraction of ours.

The press has really been hammering the fire districts here, the reason he's electing to stay on a few years is he did the math and could do this at what amounts to full pay and work at his convenience, being the third chief in that district in the last few years to retire at much more he decided to take advantage of it now with a positive spin on it. T

The fact is that they are broke and can't keep paying for these pensions and are shutting down fire houses, several are coming hat in hand asking for additional taxes to pay the pension liabilities, here is one.



			
				Contra Costa Times said:
			
		

> Barring  any last-minute changes, the East Contra Costa fire district parcel tax  that's expected to go before voters this summer would be permanent but  wouldn't increase each year as much as officials originally had planned.East  Contra Costa Fire District board members this week reviewed changes to  the draft resolution and ordinance that would put the $197 annual tax on  the June 5 ballot.¹


And yes I am jealous, retiring at 50 is absurd, income that high for people without even mediocre college educations is also absurd.

¹ http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_19920717?IADID=Search-www.contracostatimes.com-www.contracostatimes.com


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## cda (Feb 13, 2012)

""""And yes I am jealous, retiring at 50 is absurd, income that high for people without even mediocre college educations is also absurd."""

That is no way to talk about Congresss!!


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## permitguy (Feb 13, 2012)

> income that high for people without even mediocre college educations is also absurd.


I thought that was barely a living wage out there!  What, do you want the guy to live in a refrigerator box or something?


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Feb 13, 2012)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> ALL builders and developers along with every other business will pass all cost onto their consumers (homeowners). What you described is not a subsidization of an industry and as others pointed out FF spend their time doing other things than fighting fires.My town gets maybe 5 or 6 actual fire calls per year that they have to pull a hose off of the truck for. The rest are EMS, auto accidents and the like


We use our FD for controlled burns of our CRP and too which we are monetarily grateful (they only ask for donations).


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## beach (Feb 13, 2012)

> And yes I am jealous, retiring at 50 is absurd, income that high for people without even mediocre college educations is also absurd.


I have a friend with a masters degree in theater arts, he used to be a tile setter, now he sells tile products, my other friend has a degree in accounting, he moves furniture, my wife didn't graduate high school or attend college and she makes at least twice as much as I do, she's in sales and works from home...... what's your point, people should make more money because they have a degree in underwater basket weaving?

What did you do with your law degree? You had a choice of passing the bar and becoming a lawyer or stick with contracting....... most contractors don't have a degree.

Most college educated people never applied for the fire department because there wasn't any money in it, they were college edgycated for god sakes!

76 years old and still working? who's fault is that? sell that old Hummer and buy something more economically reasonable!!!!!


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