# "H".  and Smoke vents



## cda (Jul 21, 2011)

A local area  code admendment group is proposing requiring automatic smoke vents in "H" over 10000 sq ft.    With links 100 degrees above the sprinkler head

Any thoughts good bad????


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## AegisFPE (Jul 21, 2011)

What's the rationale?  When would the heat vents ever open?  Would it be only H with physical hazards, or include H that had only health hazards?


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## cda (Jul 21, 2011)

they want to require them incase the fd wants to ventilate


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## peach (Jul 21, 2011)

probably not a code violation.


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## cda (Jul 21, 2011)

Peach is it a good design though??

Say automatic vents over a sprinklered flammable storage room????


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## Builder Bob (Jul 22, 2011)

Not sure that many fusible link options exist that are listed for smoke and heat vents to meet all temperature ranges of sprinkler heads by a 100 degree increment.

165 and 212 tend to stick out in my mind, not sure what they offer today.

http://www.bitorq.com/pdfs/fusible_links/link_temperatures.pdf

Also, what would happen in a few years if FM or UL testing indicated that vents had a negitive impact on the sprinkelr system operation such as ESFR sprinkler systems...... Better to leave the S & H automatic vents as a designer's option. (LIABILITY)

If FD ops want the vents installed, require manually operated S&H vents, and remove the automatic operation of these vents.


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## FM William Burns (Jul 22, 2011)

I'm with BB where as, if the facility and the design pro want it have them be sure to make them manual from a remote control panel.


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## cda (Jul 22, 2011)

That is what I an thinking

Depending on where the head is located, seems the vent may open before or close to the head going off

And also say you have a flammable storage room on fire and the vents open, may have a nice candle coming out of the top


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## TJacobs (Jul 22, 2011)

I like the skylights that melt out at about 500 degrees...self-ventilating only during a fire event and shouldn't affect sprinklers.

http://www.skylightsusa.com/commercial/smoke-vents/shrink-out-smoke-vents.php

http://wasco.transitid-dev.com/commercial/plastic/unit/shrink-outs-heat-smoke-vents


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## cda (Jul 22, 2011)

Seems like depending on location of sprinkler head in relation to the vent

If the head is going off around 200, and the vent is higher up then the head, seems like the vent is going to go not much after that.

When ceiling temps are reaching 1000


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## Insurance Engineer (Jul 23, 2011)

Below is from FM Global Property Loss Prevention Data Sheets 2-0 January 2011. Why not go with an organization that has done full scale testing on this instead of guessing???

2.1.1.7.1 Heat and/or Smoke Vents

Do not install automatic smoke and heat vents in facilities equipped with sprinkler protection; manual heat

and smoke vents, however, are acceptable. If local codes require the installation of automatic smoke and heat

vents, do one of the following:

(a) Install vents that are FM Approved for occupancies protected by quick-response Storage sprinklers.

(b) Install FM Approved vents equipped with a standard-response 360°F (182°C) nominal thermal

activating device.

© Install quick-response sprinklers directly under the vent opening on a maximum 4 ft (1.2 m) linear and

16 ft2 (1.5 m2) area spacing. Position the centerline of the sprinkler’s thermal element in accordance with

the guidelines outlined in Section 2.1.3.2.4. Ensure these sprinklers have, at a minimum, the same

K-factor and orientation as the adjacent ceiling-level sprinklers and are fed by sprinkler piping no smaller

than the ceiling level branchlines. Sprinklers located under the ceiling vent and installed as outlined above

do not need to be added to the hydraulic design of the ceiling sprinkler system. See Figure 1a for a

diagram of this arrangement.


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## cda (Jul 25, 2011)

ok some reason it was added in the 2003 IFC   910.2.2    and taken out of the 2009 IFC,       make that it was taken out of the 2006 IFC

anyone have the reason it was taken out of the 2006??????????????


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## fireguy (Jul 25, 2011)

We had an account that had mechanical vents held in the shut position by fusible links.  The smoke detector, by a relay, sent voltage to a fusible link. The voltage melted the solder, the links fell out and the 6 foot x 6 foot vents popped open.  The first time we tested the FA, no one told us about the links.  We had to gather all the solder we could find and have the links soldered together.  Then it took 4 guys to hold the vents closed while the links were installed.  We never tested that smoke detector again.  But, in case of fire, the stage would have been vented quickly.

http://www.globetechnologies.com/


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## cda (Jul 25, 2011)

ok some reason it was added in the 2003 IFC 910.2.2 and it was taken out of the 2006 IFC

anyone have the reason it was taken out of the 2006??????????????


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