# Accessibility Help



## JamesS (Dec 19, 2010)

I am so confused.  There's ADA, ADAAD, ICC Accessibility, State Code Accessibility, ANSI 117.  When I read things in these I still can't figure out what structures have to meet the acessibility rules.

Can someone please tell me what the accessibility rules are for a commercial building two stories in height.  There are three entrance doors on the front of the building.  The left and right go to spaces to rent for offices later.  The middle is the entrance door for the whole second floor and opens upon a stairway.  The space on the second floor may be rented to an accounting firm that might have handicapped wheelchaired persons as clients.  How do accessibility rules apply to enter the office?  Is a elevator required?


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## mark handler (Dec 19, 2010)

DEPENDS,

Where are you located?

What is the use of the second floor?

Medical offices? Govermental offices?


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## Architect1281 (Dec 19, 2010)

The regulations you list are how you comply when directed to do so.

Start in your Building Code in IBC codes that is chapter 11

there it directs you to when required and where exception may apply


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## Francis Vineyard (Dec 19, 2010)

Welcome James,

Assuming new construction work your way through chapter 11 front to back and be sure to refer to the definitions of specific terms.

Chapter 11 tells you when and where; ICC ANSI A117.1 is another book that specifies the dimensions of how. Generally we start with the approach to the entrance then work our way inside to the service counters, offices and restrooms.

Section 1007.2.1; no elevator required.


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## mark handler (Dec 19, 2010)

francis vineyard said:
			
		

> welcome james,assuming new construction work your way through chapter 11 front to back and be sure to refer to the definitions of specific terms.
> 
> Chapter 11 tells you when and where; icc ansi a117.1 is another book that specifies the dimensions of how. Generally we start with the approach to the entrance then work our way inside to the service counters, offices and restrooms.
> 
> Section 1007.2.1; no elevator required.


*Not everywhere*


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## pyrguy (Dec 19, 2010)

First things first.

Where are you and what are the adopted codes there?

Elevators are not usually required for general office uses with two stories.


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## Coug Dad (Dec 20, 2010)

Welcome to the board.  Like the others have said, first determine which codes apply.


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 20, 2010)

Wlecome JamesS. Agree with the others

pyrguy

How did you get a picture of my dog?


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## Coug Dad (Dec 20, 2010)

James, we can't forget UFAS, ABA, VA and that always enchanting Federal Fair Housing.  You can see why everyone is saying the need to first determine which codes actually apply.


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## pyrguy (Dec 20, 2010)

That was my male dog. The wife and I had both a male and female Pyr.  We thought about having a small kennel but the girl had bad hips so they only had one litter. Ten 40 pound puppies and 200+ pounds of adult dogs is a little much to clean up after.  

I had to put hm down last year. We lost the girl a couple of years before. That's how I got the handle. Started using it on several discussion boards when we were first looking at the dogs. Miss them both but now live in an apartment.


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 20, 2010)

They are great dogs. Had 3 but the older female got cancer and we put her down this Nov. Still have a 3 year old 125 lb male and a 2 year old female


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## High Desert (Dec 20, 2010)

Oregon has a state statute that is more stringent than the IBC on elevators.

*447.247 Elevators required; criteria; rules. (1) Elevators are required:*

(a) In all shopping centers, shopping malls, professional offices of health care providers and government buildings that are covered by Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act;

(b) In all other commercial facilities, private entities and places of public accommodation covered by Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act that have more than one floor level and more than 3,000 square feet in ground area or that are more than 20 feet in height, measured from the top surface of the lowest flooring to the highest interior overhead finish of the building; and

© In all private membership clubs and churches that have more than one floor level and more than 4,000 square feet in ground area or that are more than 20 feet in height, measured from the top surface of the lowest flooring to the highest interior overhead finish of the building.


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## Yikes (Dec 20, 2010)

JamesS - remember when OJ Simpson was tried for murder, acquitted, and then sued in civil court for wrongful death and he lost?

Well, it's a poor analogy, but that's what happens in issues related to accessibility.  There are (1) building codes, enforced by your local building department, and there is (2) a case history of civil action on entities that have allegedly discriminated against persons with disabilities.  You need to take care of both issues, whichever has the most stringent requirements.

Item #1 above is information that can be readily obtained from your local building department, and there may be unique local requirements, which is why everyone is asking about your building location.  That's the ANSI 117.1, ICC, state code etc.

Item #2 (ADA, UFAS) is NOT enforced by your building official, it is enforced by the US Dept. of Justice via the courts, and it could be very subjective.  People are nervous that they could be judged to discriminate (even solely through their own ignorance), based on evolving case law.  They are looking for guidelines that would give some comfort level that their facilities are OK.

the US Dept of Justice has published standards and guidelines for ADA (applies to public-use areas), and HUD has done likewise for FHA (applies to housing).

These are supposed to be "safe harbor", meaning that if you have made every reasonable effort to comply with these, it is highly unlikely that a court would find you had intent to discriminate.

Conclusion:

Comply with BOTH local codes AND national guidelines (ADA and FHA).  They may not be identical to each other.

Local building official will not guarantee that following his advise will mean you comply with both local and national requriments.


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## JamesS (Dec 20, 2010)

Thank you all for your imput.  There was some really good information given.  First, let me tell you who I am.  I am a building inspector in Georgia.  Second, I had attended a class on accessibility, but the instructor told us some much about the different rules in such a short time I left the class more confused than when I started.  I have spoken with my chief and since he doesn't know he just walks away.  The example I gave was a real one and I asked the chief about it and of course he smiled and walked away.  It seems like everything commercial new should be accessible especially if the service there caters to the public.  So, I can't see how the second floor provides access to someone in a wheel chair.  I appreciate the idea of starting over and going to chapter 11 in the code book.  I'm just afraid that I will end up seeing something like "all buildings required to be accessible by the ADA" and I'm back to square one again.  But, at least now I know that as an inspector I need to just "START" at the building code.  I also appreciate the info about the Fair Housing Act.  I was reading it last night and got really confused over the "covered multifamily units".  As I read it a building with at least four "townhouses" with bedrooms on the second floor are not covered by the act, but one story "garden" apartments/units/condimendians are.  Am I correct?Thanks again everyone.  I am going to forget all the others for now and just read the building code.


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## mark handler (Dec 20, 2010)

James

Follow the Georgia Accessiblity Code  forget the rest, you are not empowered to enforce the federal codes.

http://ada.georgia.gov/00/channel_title/0,2094,77499621_159380346,00.html


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## Coug Dad (Dec 20, 2010)

Try to get in touch with "Georgia Plans Examiner" on this board.  He may be able to provide some specific Georgia assistance.


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## georgia plans exam (Dec 20, 2010)

JamesS,

A 2007 georgia State Amendment to the 2006 IBC has deleted Chapter 11. Mark is right. All we can do is enforce the 1997 (i know, i know) Georgia Accessibility Code. You will find your answer in Section 120-3-20-.08.

GPE


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## JamesS (Dec 20, 2010)

I think I am slowly getting it.  It appears that with some exceptions the code applies to everything commercial.  There are exceptions for the Board of Regents, Safety Fire Commissioner, and certain building most notibility the exceptions in Section 120-3-20-.03 and 120-3-20-.08.  Only where do I find out what buildings the Safety Fire Commissioner is responsible for and what other buildings has the U.S. Attorney Gerneral included for the Exception #1 of 120-3-20-.08?  OOOPS.  Forget all the above.  I went to the site recommend by Mark Handler and found more info.  With that site and Georgia Plan Reviewer's input I'm sure I have everything I need.   Thanks again everyone.


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