# Suspended Ceiling Tiles



## NFRMarshal

In dealing with inspections related to missing ceiling tiles. One thing is clear is that it would be a violation of 901.6 if the building has fire sprinklers or smoke detection to have missing or removed ceiling tiles with sprinkler heads penetrating and detectors attached. What is a little more gray is if there is no fire detection or supression in the building. It can sometimes be difficult to determine if the suspended ceiling is part of the fire rated assembly so 703.1 is questionable. What would you write this under if we are able to require the replacement of the tile at all.


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## cda

Well if the tile is not part of a rated assembly, which the answer is normaly no.

Than do they have to be there? Unless for some energy vide the answer is no.

So they can remove them all or part.

I do not like it but as you found no code to back you up

Just ask nicely and see what happens or run some type of bluff.


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## hlfireinspector

What above ceilings that are used as return air ducts?


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## NFRMarshal

Well it is definitely a fire separation so I was looking at 701.2 Unsafe condition liable to cause the spread of fire. The issue of Plenum space is a valid one as well. I am sure they would never think of balking at it.


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## cda

What is a fire separation the ceiling tile or sheet rock above it???


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## steveray

It seems as though he is saying the acoustical ceiling....Which...if you want to be thorough...ask for a listing.....$100 says it is installed (or at least not maintained) properly...It would need clips on all of the tiles and ways to protect all of the light fixtures and HVAC penetrations....



			
				cda said:
			
		

> What is a fire separation the ceiling tile or sheet rock above it???


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## GCtony

NFRMarshal said:
			
		

> Well it is definitely a fire separation so I was looking at 701.2 Unsafe condition liable to cause the spread of fire. The issue of Plenum space is a valid one as well. I am sure they would never think of balking at it.


In a plenum return, you have open grills that lay in the grid instead of a solid tile and/or light fixtures that have slots for built in air return. Pretty much no difference than leaving a ceiling tile out. So I'm not following how a layin ceiling would maintain any kind of "rating".


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## AegisFPE

I think a distinction could be made based on whether the exposed concealed space above the suspended ceiling is of combustible construction or not.

If the ceiling tiles were required to be in place in order to satisfy the interior finish classification of the ceiling (Table 803.3) then you are on to something.

On the other hand, if it is a non-combustible concealed space, I fail to see how it is an "unsafe condition liable to cause the spread of fire." Allowing the smoke and heat to go up into the ceiling cavity could give the occupants a little more time to escape.


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## mtlogcabin

> It can sometimes be difficult to determine if the suspended ceiling is part of the fire rated assembly so 703.1 is questionable.


While doing your inspection look for fire dampers in the HVAC ceiling registers, are the lights surface mounted or layins? Poke your head up through the missing tile, is the light illuminating through the ceiling, are there clips holding the tile inplace? chances are it is not rated. Last but the most accurate go back to the office and check the original drawings to see what was required. You can not be expected to know everything in the field


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## NFRMarshal

AegisFPE said:
			
		

> On the other hand, if it is a non-combustible concealed space, I fail to see how it is an "unsafe condition liable to cause the spread of fire." Allowing the smoke and heat to go up into the ceiling cavity could give the occupants a little more time to escape.


You know, thats a good point and never though of it that way. If the interior separating walls terminate at the level of the suspended ceiling then a missing tile would allow fire immediate access to the void space/cock loft/plenum area. This is bad news for fire fighters, as they could enter a structure where a remote fire has started and made its way into this area through a missing tile. The fire could be above their head and they not be aware. Two firefighters were killed in Chesapeake Va in an auto parts store after a roof collapse from a hidden fire in the concealed space above their heads. By the time they realized it it was too late.


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## NFRMarshal

GCtony said:
			
		

> In a plenum return, you have open grills that lay in the grid instead of a solid tile and/or light fixtures that have slots for built in air return. Pretty much no difference than leaving a ceiling tile out. So I'm not following how a layin ceiling would maintain any kind of "rating".


Good point.


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## NFRMarshal

Can't tell you how many times I see a drop ceiling installed for aesthetics to hide gaping holes in a decaying ceiling. Also when you pop a tile and look you see where they have turned the sheetrock ceiling into swiss cheese establishing support points for the wire hangers.


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## cda

And how long will a non rated ceiling tile stay in place, under fir conditions ???

I thought also the code may no longer require clips on actual rated ceiling tiles, just a certain weight


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## FM William Burns

In order for me to give a difinitive opinion, I would need a bit more detail since I don't need the fire behavior lesson. Is this is a hypothetical observation or actual field observation? Because based on what I've read so far, one would need to determine if the space was required to be a rated fire area. As others have said one would need to use the experiences he or she had in figuring out if the area was rated by mentioned means or plan review and then deal with it.

What type of building or tanant space is it?


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## fireguy

I was in a 3 story school today that had missing and broken ceiling tile  in hallways and in the dressing rooms.  The building is partially sprinkled, mostly hallways and classrooms.  Above the tiles are exposed 2 x 4 and 6" wide boards above the 2 x 4.  The sprinkler system does not protect the area above the tiles.  The building was remodeled about 45 years ago, the date of the sprinkler heads.   The fire alarm has smokes in the hallways and classrooms, 10' from the end of hallways and every 20 '.  there are some A/V and some pull stations, mostly in hallways.

The local FD is rated 8 or 9, the cheif is paid, the rest are volunteers.  I would not want to streatch a line into that school.


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## Builder Bob

I understand the perception of missing tiles and the affect of sprinkler/smoke performance. However, while attending the National Fire Academy, a discussion came up with one of the fire modeling gurus of the ATF fire lab technicians up there about a school project where rooms (12 X 12) had an architectural embellishment known as a cloud. This "cloud" left the edges of the perimeter open for 18".  The lap through fire modeling determined that this feature (cloud) did not have an adverse affect upon the effectiveness of the sprinkler system to operate correctly as was designed.

Does this mean to dismiss the missing tiles - no  What it does mean is that missing tiles along the perimeter may be ok, however, if they are installed without "PERFORMANCE TESTING" , they should be maintained.

BTW, in accordance with the energy code, they are not recognized as providing a thermal barrier as they allow movement of air thru the ACT system.


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## jar546

Resurrected.  I was searching for something else and this came up on google so I though I would bring it back for discussion.


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