# ADA VS NEC Electrical Panel Heights (location)



## Trashtalking

I'm trying to discern if there is an ADA requirement for the mounting of Electrical Panels in Multi-Family apartment buildings.   I'm building a 5 story, stick framed apartment building (319 units) and there will be an individual circuit breaker box in each unit that shuts off service to appliances,etc.   Each unit is individually metered but the meters are in a meter bank on the ground floor.

My question is whether or not the Breaker box that is in an ADA unit must be located according to the ADA reach requirements?

Can anyone show me that section that supports your answer?


----------



## mjesse

Welcome to the forum.

I predict you'll see some upcoming arguments about "accessible" vs. "accessible" (they look the same don't they) :devil

I don't believe the service equipment (panelboard) needs to be ADA accessible, just service-person accessible.

mj


----------



## mark handler

ADA does not cover private Multi-Family apartment buildings.

Are you sure who the AHJ is?

Is it the Fair Housing Act? HUD?

TAS, Texas Accessibility Standards?

Is it the Mains? Or subpanels in units?

By the way welcome to the board


----------



## mark handler

Department of Justice

2010 Standards

ADASAD 203.5 Machinery Spaces.  Spaces frequented only by service personnel for maintenance, repair, or occasional monitoring of equipment shall not be required to comply with these requirements or to be on an accessible route.  Machinery spaces include, but are not limited to, elevator pits or elevator penthouses; mechanical,* electrical or communications equipment rooms;* piping or equipment catwalks; water or sewage treatment pump rooms and stations; electric substations and transformer vaults; and highway and tunnel utility facilities.


----------



## mark handler

FAIR HOUSING ACT DESIGN MANUAL

"...Controls and outlets not covered by the Guidelines include circuit breakers..."

But if you want to make it accessible; The highest switch in a Subpanel in accessible units should be no higher than a maximum reach height of 48 inches.


----------



## chris kennedy

mark handler said:
			
		

> The highest switch in a Subpanel in accessible units should be no higher than a maximum reach height of 48 inches.


Isn't there wording such as 'likely to be operated' or some such? If so how would a circuit breaker fall under that def? (I'm look through ADA standards as we speak but am yet to find that)


----------



## mark handler

chris kennedy said:
			
		

> Isn't there wording such as 'likely to be operated' or some such? If so how would a circuit breaker fall under that def? (I'm look through ADA standards as we speak but am yet to find that)


NOT required by ADA


----------



## chris kennedy

mark handler said:
			
		

> NOT required by ADA


Typing during your edit, thanks.


----------



## mark handler

chris kennedy said:
			
		

> Typing during your edit, thanks.


I did not edit post #3... That's where I said not covered in ADA


----------



## north star

*= =*

Trashtalking,

Welcome to The Building Codes Forum! 

Are your ADA units really ADA designed and compliant?

Also, ...what codes / standards are you using?.....The `03

ICC / ANSI A117.1, Section 1002.9, ...1003.9 & 1004.9

require that the breakers be installed no higher than 48 in.

above the finished floor surfaces, ...in conjunction with

what **mark handler** stated [ RE: Section 309 -

Operable Parts, `03 ICC / ANSI A117.1 ].

** * **


----------



## hlfireinspector

I'm building a 5 story, stick framed apartment building (319 units)

How did you get there???????? 5 story stick..................Not allowed Table 503 IBC


----------



## BSSTG

mark handler said:
			
		

> FAIR HOUSING ACT DESIGN MANUAL "...Controls and outlets not covered by the Guidelines include circuit breakers..."
> 
> But if you want to make it accessible; The highest switch in a Subpanel in accessible units should be no higher than a maximum reach height of 48 inches.


I have seen some done that way.

BS


----------



## mark handler

hlfireinspector said:
			
		

> I'm building a 5 story, stick framed apartment building (319 units)How did you get there???????? 5 story stick..................Not allowed Table 503 IBC


Five-story Wood-frame Structure over Podium Slab

www.woodworks.org/wp-content/uploads/5-over-1-Design-Example.pdf


----------



## Architect1281

Well it makes sense because the panel is supposed to be opperable by the occupants of the units. it is worthy of consideraation


----------



## gfretwell

This opens up a whole can of worms. Wouldn't this also make 110.26 working space 30x48  (ADA 4.2.4)


----------



## Francis Vineyard

Welcome Trashtalking, how did you find us?

As everyone confirmed is not in the NEC yet; The Building Code Forum Industry News

For your convenience from Fair Housing First;

66. What kinds of switches are NOT covered by Requirement 5? 

Switches or controls that are not covered by Requirement 5 include appliance mounted controls, telephone jacks, circuit breakers, and garbage disposal switches. Controls for security and intercom switches within the unit are not covered, but such controls in public and common use areas are covered.

http://www.fairhousingfirst.org/faq/view_all.html

Believe it or not we have had request that the panel be lockable, in a closet or raised out of reached when they have kids in accessible units.



			
				mark handler said:
			
		

> Five-story Wood-frame Structure over Podium Slab www.woodworks.org/wp-content/uploads/5-over-1-Design-Example.pdf


3A fully sprinklered; if your local is not used to building them you’ll get lots of phone calls; “how are they allow to do that”?

Francis


----------



## raider1

Let me throw another section at you. NEC 240.24(B).



> 240.24 Location in or on Premises.(B) Occupancy. Each occupant shall have ready access to
> 
> all overcurrent devices protecting the conductors supplying
> 
> that occupancy, unless otherwise permitted in 240.24(B)(1)
> 
> and (B)(2).


Here are (B)(1) and (2)



> (1) Service and Feeder Overcurrent Devices. Where electricservice and electrical maintenance are provided by the
> 
> building management and where these are under continuousbuilding management supervision, the service overcurrent devices
> 
> and feeder overcurrent devices supplying more than one
> 
> occupancy shall be permitted to be accessible only to authorized
> 
> management personnel in the following:
> 
> (1) Multiple-occupancy buildings
> 
> (2) Guest rooms or guest suites
> 
> (2) Branch-Circuit Overcurrent Devices. Where electric
> 
> service and electrical maintenance are provided by the
> 
> building management and where these are under continuous
> 
> building management supervision, the branch-circuit
> 
> overcurrent devices supplying any guest rooms or guest
> 
> suites without permanent provisions for cooking shall be
> 
> permitted to be accessible only to authorized management
> 
> personnel.


What constitutes ready access for an accessible unit with a resident confined to a wheelchair?

Chris


----------



## mark handler

raider1 said:
			
		

> What constitutes ready access for an accessible unit with a resident confined to a wheelchair?


if you want to make it accessible; The highest switch in a Subpanel *in accessible units *should be no higher than a maximum reach height of 48 inches.


----------



## north star

*= = $*





> "What constitutes ready access for an accessible unit with a resident confined to a wheelchair?"


The ability of physically challenged persons to be able to access & operate operableparts outlined in Sections 1002.9, ...1003.9 & 1004.9, which then directs

individuals to the reach ranges in Section 308, in the `03 Edition, ICC/ANSI A117.1.

Also, if the dwelling units are HUD financed, refer to Section 233 [ Residential

Facilities ] in the `10 ADA Standards for Accessible Design.



*$ = =*


----------



## raider1

mark handler said:
			
		

> if you want to make it accessible; The highest switch in a Subpanel *in accessible units *should be no higher than a maximum reach height of 48 inches.


I agree.

Chris


----------



## mark handler

By the way "Trashtalking" since you are in Texas

Also not required in the Architectural Barriers Texas Accessibility Standards (TAS)


----------



## gfretwell

As far as I know virtually all of the ADA is voluntary in single family. I suppose if you advertised a home as being ADA compliant, there could be legal recourse in court if you were not compliant but that would simply be a breach of contract or false advertising case. YMMV depending on your state law.

I know my wife did build some compliant homes but it was not inspected to any higher standard than the regular building code. It was up to the builder to make all of the appropriate things compliant. They still did not change the height of the load center.

She is now in the country club business and the public areas there do need to be ADA. The private areas do not. The big sticking point right now is pool lifts.


----------



## mark handler

Yes single family housing is not a part of the ADA and the Fair Housing guidelines


----------



## gfretwell

I misspoke. I really meant private residence. I looked at the scope and they seem to be saying the only time it applies is if this is some kind of government built or renovated housing.

That still doesn't mean a customer can't buy and have an ADA home built.

This panel thing does bring up all of those approach and reach things tho. On a front approach you might have problems getting inside the upper and lower limits on a 42 slot panel or one of the newly allowed larger panels. If you have side approach you have more range.


----------



## mark handler

You Still mistyped... ADA has nothing to do with an Accessible private residence.

The term is accessible, no ADA.

Not all taxes are imposed by the IRS, Not all accessibility is related to ADA.


----------



## gfretwell

We are actually regulated by the Florida accessibility legislation but it still does not apply to private dwellings.

It is still the guideline that you use for voluntary compliance and that may be what we are talking about here I suppose.


----------



## mark handler

What "guideline" do *you* use for voluntary compliance?


----------



## Francis Vineyard

Francis


----------



## Pcinspector1

Trashtalking has left the ADA compliant building! I think!

Reminds me of a high school friend that would say something that would get my stepbrothers and I mad at each other and then set back and watch us fight!

pc1


----------



## peach

agreed.  I'm not sure a sub panel even needs a disconnect of any kind.


----------

