# Whirlpool tub setting



## earshavewalls (Aug 18, 2010)

We have an owner/builder who is installing a spa-tub in the 2nd story master bath. He neglected to provide a properly sized access panel for servicing and removal of the pump.

He is suggesting that he can use a slip fitting for the drain and can access the pump by removing the tub any time it needs servicing and that he would only need to re-caulk around the tub (recessed installation) when placing it back.

We obviously have issues with this method. He claims that over 100 (magic number...) have been installed just like this in other areas. I am concerned about:

1) supporting the tub from the rim

2) a slip joint for a tub connection is unsettling (no real seal)

3) this is a wealthy, connected (politically) person who is close friends with the assistant building official.

Sticky, to say the least.........

So, here we go.........what do you think of his proposal? Our BO is hesitant to permit this but is also reluctant to just say "no". I am not sure if the tub itself is listed for this type of access. Most tubs need to be supported from beneath the tub (mortar bed of some kind) and are anchored in some way to prevent movement. This proposal would support and secure the tub with the lip of the tub and some caulking.

I anxiously await your comments!

Wayne


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## mtlogcabin (Aug 18, 2010)

> He is suggesting that he can use a slip fitting for the drain and can access the pump by removing the tub


2006 UPC 404.2 *Connections.*Fixtures having concealed slip joint connections shall be provided with an access panel or utility space at least 12 inches in its least dimension and so arranged without obstructions as to make such connections accessible for inspection and repair. 

The tub would have to be installed according to the manufactures installation instructions. Changing the supports from bottom of the tub to the rim around the top would be a disaster. The loads are spread across the bottom of the tub are about 8 sq gt of bearing surface. Using the rim around the top you would be lucky to have 1.5 sq ft of bearing surface.

Ask an engineer?


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## georgia plans exam (Aug 18, 2010)

680.73 2008 NEC "Hydromassage bathtub electrical equipment shall be accessible without damaging the building structure or building finish."

GPE


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## Mule (Aug 18, 2010)

We allow the marble skirting around the tub to be the access to the motors and connections. A razor knife is all you need to get to the parts. I don't see that as any harder than removing several screws from within an area adjacent to the tub.

It is our opinion that we are not damaging the building structure or building finish by allowing this.


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## Uncle Bob (Aug 18, 2010)

Wayne,

As the inspector, I would fail it (with the proper apology to the "well connected" Gentleman); take pictures and a make a copy of the installation instructions for my records (and the BO's desk); and, suggest that if he insisted, he should take it to the inspections office, and speak to those who may know more than myself and have the authority to approve it.

To the best of my knowledge and recollection; "I've seen this a hundred times"; is not an amendment to the codes.

Uncle Bob


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## peach (Aug 18, 2010)

well.................... no.. (I think I have enough characters)..

Wayne.. there's a reason building officials have an average shelf life of 5 years.. it's called POLITICS!

Sometimes the answer needs to be NO


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## beach (Aug 18, 2010)

No, nope, negative..... no way! Maybe HE would remove the tub to access it, but the next owner won't and there will be another owner.....


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## north star (Aug 18, 2010)

** * **

peach,

That's funny! Sadly true, but funny! 



Wayne,

All good comments above, ...solid reasoning!    Discuss this with your BO

and outline the reasons why this type of install is not acceptable

[ improper support,  no approved access panel  ].   The previous

[ alleged ] " 100 installs " are not an acceptable reason to allow this

one.

Our AHJ has usually required two separate, hinged wood panels, custom

made  &  installed in the front [ for access  ],  or as Mule stated "  ...a

manufactured marble piece" that can be removed with a razor knife.



** * **


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## georgia plans exam (Aug 19, 2010)

*Does the UPC have anything similar to this out of the 2006 IPC?*

*421.5 Access to pump. *

Access shall be provided to circulation pumps in accordance with the fixture or pump manufacturer’s installation instructions. Where the manufacturer’s instructions do not specify the location and minimum size of field-fabricated access openings, a 12-inch by 12-inch (305 mm by 305 mm) minimum sized opening shall be installed to provide access to the circulation pump. Where pumps are located more than 2 feet (609 mm) from the access opening, an 18-inch by 18-inch (457 mm by 457 mm) minimum sized opening shall be installed. A door or panel shall be permitted to close the opening. In all cases, the access opening shall be unobstructed and of the size necessary to permit the removal and replacement of the circulation pump.

GPE


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## mtlogcabin (Aug 19, 2010)

The UPC is not as specific

2006 UPC 414.1

A removable panel shall be provided to access and remove the pump. Whirlpool pump access located in the crawl space shall be located no more than twenty feet from an access door, trap door or crawl hole.


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## earshavewalls (Aug 19, 2010)

I'd like to thank all of you, again, for your posts. They were quite helpful.

It is in the BO's hands now, and he is going to say, "No". They tried to get by with an 8"x8" opening to access the motor, which is at least 2" shy of the circumference of the motor.......so, they will likely need to remove the marble skirting and enlarge the opening, which is what the inspector originally told them.

The concensus helps a lot when looking at these things so that it puts the whole issue into perspective. If they are that connected, it shouldn't be a big deal to redo a 24" x 24" section of a tub surround so that they will comply........so be it, break out the stone cutters!

Thanks again!


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## aintmisnphily (Sep 9, 2010)

Don't play  politics, do your job. If it does not meet codeand you apove it ,you are out of a job.


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