# Clouds



## Just John (Feb 2, 2010)

Designer has clouds in halls that vary in distance below the ceiling above from 2 to 3 feet.  Sprinklers are installed above and below clouds. Clouds have about a 1 -1.5 foot openings on their parimeters that opens to the ceiling above. The required smoke detection system had detectors on the bottom of the cloud. I found that sidewalls must be lower than 4 inches and max at 12 inches but these are mounted on the cloud.  I called manufactureer and they said they would get back to me.  What are your thoughts?

Is the detector okay on cloud?

If they are to be mounted on the ceiling above the cloud is the air between the cloud and ceiling a dead air space?

If mounted on the ceiling should the spacing be tighter since smoke would have to move some distance to get around the cloud?


----------



## Coug Dad (Feb 2, 2010)

Re: Clouds

IF smoke detection is required, then it would have to be both above and below the clouds.  What requires smoke detection in a fully sprinklered building?


----------



## Just John (Feb 2, 2010)

Re: Clouds

Air handling system. They went with a whole alarm system instead of duct detectors. What code section would require detection below the cloud?


----------



## JBI (Feb 2, 2010)

Re: Clouds

Clouds? WTF are 'clouds'? (forgive my ignorance, I am afterall only a Code Officiial...)


----------



## Coug Dad (Feb 2, 2010)

Re: Clouds

Clouds are partial or incomplete ceilings.  They were an architectural fad a few years ago but interest has lessened, in part because of the duplicate sprinkler requirement.


----------



## cda (Feb 2, 2010)

Re: Clouds

normaly would only require them above the clouds

no need to space tighter

with out seeing the entire room and clouds, but have not seen above and below before

and are they using sidewalls to protect under the cloud????  does not sound right/ normal


----------



## cda (Feb 2, 2010)

Re: Cloudscloudy day not the best example

View attachment 61


View attachment 61


/monthly_2010_05/789fa8cc619363fa.jpg.5178871337fc57e599b31a997ff48e9b.jpg


----------



## Just John (Feb 2, 2010)

Re: Clouds

My reference to sidewalls was that they were the only measurement I found for how close to the ceiling a detector had to be.  These detectors are mounted in the center of the clouds that measure about 20X8 and are 2 to 3 feet from ceiling with about 18 inch gap around ends and walls.


----------



## Rider Rick (Feb 2, 2010)

Re: Clouds



			
				John Drobysh said:
			
		

> Clouds? WTF are 'clouds'? (forgive my ignorance, I am afterall only a Code Officiial...)


Thank you for asking.


----------



## cda (Feb 2, 2010)

Re: Clouds

My reference to sidewalls was that they were the only measurement I found for how close to the ceiling a detector had to be. These detectors are mounted in the center of the clouds that measure about 20X8 and are 2 to 3 feet from ceiling with about 18 inch gap around ends and walls.

detectors are normaly not more than a foot down from the ceiling

in this case would mount them as close to the deck above the clouds as possible

and still would not requie them on the clouds,

now if a fire alrm company comes in and says yes they have to be there, then would go with that, siince they have to put thier name on it.


----------



## FM William Burns (Feb 2, 2010)

Re: Clouds



> My reference to sidewalls was that they were the only measurement I found for how close to the ceiling a detector had to be. These detectors are mounted in the center of the clouds that measure about 20X8 and are 2 to 3 feet from ceiling with about 18 inch gap around ends and walls.


Personally, my question to whoever installed them would be........ What performance based design method was chosen and what section of NFPA 72 was used in deriving the design? Since as explained, this design would not be based on Annex B or Chapter 5 from what I gather.


----------



## cda (Feb 20, 2010)

Re: Clouds

saw some clouds today, and it did not dawn on me till the rain hit me in the face!

On the sprinkler side you treat them like an obstruction and apply the rule in nfpa 13 depending on head in use


----------



## Plans Approver (Feb 20, 2010)

Re: Clouds

I hate clouds inside of buildings!!!! They're supposed to be outside surrounding God's great earth!!!!!

Is the area above the clouds also being used as return air? May as well put all the bad things inside this hall or is it really a corridor?

[edit] Changed the picture. Notice the ineffective sprinkler at the left, there's another ineffective sprinkler hidden by the center light fixture.


----------



## cda (Feb 20, 2010)

Re: Clouds

Plans Approver

in the plan picture you provided, I beliive the bad air is below the clouds and the good air would be above the clouds, at leas that is waht mr gore aludes to in greenouse gases.


----------

