# Type A & B Unit Closet Depth



## Matt Jones (Jan 14, 2020)

I had a third party reviewer comment on the depth of my walk-in closets in a couple of Type B units recently...that they were over 48" deep and didn't provide a turning space. Granted he also referenced the Type A section of A117.1, so I'm fairly sure he's wrong, but it got me thinking:

Is there any requirement for turning space at Type B closets? I thought these were exempt...
I remember reading/hearing something a long time ago that shelving depth (if fixed) was removed from the depth of the closet, which in this case would make them less than 48" deep anyway. I can't seem to find anything on this, however, so it's probably wrong or a bad memory...


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## e hilton (Jan 14, 2020)

Whats the overall size of the closets.  Are they real wide, like a pair of bifold doors?   Or is this hanger rods on both sides with a path in the middle?


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## IndianaJonesy (Jan 14, 2020)

e hilton said:


> Whats the overall size of the closets.  Are they real wide, like a pair of bifold doors?   Or is this hanger rods on both sides with a path in the middle?



It’s more a hypothetical or generic question, but these are L and U shaped closets


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## mark handler (Jan 15, 2020)

*FAIR HOUSING ACT DESIGN MANUAL*


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## Matt Jones (Jan 15, 2020)

mark handler said:


> *FAIR HOUSING ACT DESIGN MANUAL*
> View attachment 6372



Right, I'm aware of the door clearance requirements (and meet them)...just was curious about the depth on Type B units and if shelving is included or excluded from that depth.


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## e hilton (Jan 15, 2020)

So now that the diagram has been posted, I don’t see the problem. You said your depth is 48” and the diagram shows 5’x an6 width, and doesn’t call for turnaround.  So you’re good ... right?


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## DMartin (Jan 15, 2020)

*The 2010 Standards of Accessible Design Section 305.3 describes the clear floor area for rooms, including storage rooms, as being a minimum of 30″x48″. This is the amount of space required by a wheelchair.  In storage closets it is important to have not only the minimum requirements, but if they are full entry closets, then the ability to turn around and exit the closet will also be required.  Many times, storage closets are designed narrow and deep, which becomes problematic if the person in the wheelchair is able to fully enter the space and not get back out.
Shallow vs. Full entry closets*

There are two types of closets: one is a “shallow closet” space which is shallower than   the 48″ x 30″ required by a wheelchair and therefore does not allow full entry.  A closet that is deeper than 48″ would allow full entry by a person in a wheelchair.

In storage facilities (i.e. closets) that allow full entry, a 5′-0″ turning space is required so that once in they can turn around and get out without risk of getting stuck. What if you don’t have the five feet?  Then you can make the deep closet act like shallow closets.  Here are some examples:


If you have a wide closet that is 48″ wide and 48″ deep, but no 5′-0″ space, try adding shelving to the back to make the space less than 48″ and therefore does not allow for full entry.




Deep Closet and no turning space



I would say that shelving can be used to make it shallower making no requirement for turn around


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## Matt Jones (Jan 15, 2020)

DMartin said:


> I would say that shelving can be used to make it shallower making no requirement for turn around



Thanks, this is exactly what I was thinking of but couldn't find. It'd be nice if ANSI or IBC specifically stated that, but it at least adds weight to the logic of the idea.


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## Matt Jones (Jan 15, 2020)

e hilton said:


> So now that the diagram has been posted, I don’t see the problem. You said your depth is 48” and the diagram shows 5’x an6 width, and doesn’t call for turnaround.  So you’re good ... right?



Not really...FHADM has no real authority other than for funding purposes. IBC and ANSI A117.1 are the applicable codes that would be enforced, not to mention that the FHA diagram is only really talking about the door width on deep closets being able to allow entrance. FHADM doesn't say that that's an accessible closet anyway, just that it's acceptable for fair housing. I suppose you could argue that that's the same thing as Type B in this case, but again it's not an enforceable standard. 

That said, DMartin's diagrams and reference clear up the second question for me and I'll just assume that since no one can point to any standard for Type B depth that there isn't one.


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## Paul Sweet (Jan 15, 2020)

Type A & B units are based on Fair Housing Act amendments.


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## DMartin (Jan 15, 2020)

Matt Jones said:


> Not really...FHADM has no real authority other than for funding purposes. IBC and ANSI A117.1 are the applicable codes that would be enforced, not to mention that the FHA diagram is only really talking about the door width on deep closets being able to allow entrance. FHADM doesn't say that that's an accessible closet anyway, just that it's acceptable for fair housing. I suppose you could argue that that's the same thing as Type B in this case, but again it's not an enforceable standard.
> 
> That said, DMartin's diagrams and reference clear up the second question for me and I'll just assume that since no one can point to any standard for Type B depth that there isn't one.


this is a quote from a previous thread and I do believe it is correct. meaning there is an accessible route, not fully accessible units when it comes to type B.  I may be wrong in this assumption.
"My understanding has always been that a Type A unit is fully accessible with all bells and whistles already installed.

A Type B unit is 'adaptable', meaning that all special requirements are met - hall width, door clearances, etc. - but the grab bars have not been installed (although the blocking is already in the walls), there is a standard toilet in lieu of a higher seat.

Adaptable means that the unit could be made fully accessible without major construction..."


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## Matt Jones (Jan 15, 2020)

DMartin said:


> this is a quote from a previous thread and I do believe it is correct. meaning there is an accessible route, not fully accessible units when it comes to type B.  I may be wrong in this assumption.
> "My understanding has always been that a Type A unit is fully accessible with all bells and whistles already installed.
> 
> A Type B unit is 'adaptable', meaning that all special requirements are met - hall width, door clearances, etc. - but the grab bars have not been installed (although the blocking is already in the walls), there is a standard toilet in lieu of a higher seat.
> ...



Not quite. IBC/ANSI creates four distinct categories: Accessible, Type A, Type B, and Type C.

Accessible is handicap accessible out of the gate with everything installed and set up basically as it would be anywhere else ADA guidelines dictate. 

Both Types A and B are "adaptable."

Type A is effectively a unit that can quickly and easily be switched to an accessible. It’s basically an accessible unit but some considerations are made for more wide usage such as easily removable casework under sinks and clearance overlaps.

Type B is more adaptable but not necessarily designed to ever meet fully accessible standards. It does still have certain clearance requirements as well as blocking provisions for grab bars. I think of this as the "care in place" type, where someone can stay where they live and recover after a debilitating injury but it may not be ideal.

Type C is a "visitable" unit that rarely occurs (basically only multifamily areas not required to be accessible) and is basically just the bare minimum of access path clearances within the unit.


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## ADAguy (Jan 16, 2020)

DMartin said:


> *The 2010 Standards of Accessible Design Section 305.3 describes the clear floor area for rooms, including storage rooms, as being a minimum of 30″x48″. This is the amount of space required by a wheelchair.  In storage closets it is important to have not only the minimum requirements, but if they are full entry closets, then the ability to turn around and exit the closet will also be required.  Many times, storage closets are designed narrow and deep, which becomes problematic if the person in the wheelchair is able to fully enter the space and not get back out.
> Shallow vs. Full entry closets*
> 
> There are two types of closets: one is a “shallow closet” space which is shallower than   the 48″ x 30″ required by a wheelchair and therefore does not allow full entry.  A closet that is deeper than 48″ would allow full entry by a person in a wheelchair.
> ...


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## ADAguy (Jan 16, 2020)

Consider reach range if installing shelves, consider stacking shelves to one side with poles adjacent. Also consider exterior barn type sliders to leave door opening clear. There are also pull down units now available that allow shelves and poles to descend to accessible levels, sim. to kitchens.


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