# Grate type ramp



## Rick18071 (Jul 28, 2010)

Last winter I failed an inspection on grate type steps. The openings were less than 1/2". They where being used to go into a basement under a oil changing grarge.  There were open pits in the floor that whent thru the floor so you could get under the cars from the basement. I thought it was a good idea because the workers could have oily shoes. But IBC 1009.6.1 says stairway treads and landings must be solid. So they fastened 1/4 ply wood onto the treads and also used the plywood to close the risers. Then I passed it. I'm sure the plywood is off by now.

These stairs also had to be accessable. ANSI 504.4 says tread surface for accessible stairs must comply by ANSI 302 which does not say a solid surface but lets openings less than 1/2". It made me think that if you had accessible stairs where only handicap people would use them you could use the grate type stairs.

Now I am looking at plans for a accessible grate type ramp. Don't know how big the openings are yet. Nothing in the IBC about solid surface. IBC 1010.7.1 only says ramp surface must be slip resistant. ANSI 405.4 sends you to ANSI 302(opening less than 1/2" are ok)

So ramps and their landings are ok with a grate type surface (openings less than 1/2) but stairs and their landings must be solid.

Am I looking at this right?


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## peach (Jul 28, 2010)

There's an exception for F, H, and S occupancies regarding the solid treads in IBC 2006.  With the ramp, though, I don't know if I'd allow it.. women in heels could use that ramp (heels get stuck in those little openings).. at least lose a shoe.. maybe break an ankle.


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## CaliforniaArchitectCE.com (Jul 28, 2010)

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> But IBC 1009.6.1 says stairway treads and landings must be solid.


Did you see exception 1?

ADAAG 4.5.4 allows grating in walking surfaces.


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## Rick18071 (Jul 28, 2010)

Don't inforce ADAAG in PA, only IBC and ANSI. I can't make up a code section up for high heels any more than making one up for higher doors.


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## mtlogcabin (Jul 29, 2010)

A ramp is a walking surface and a walking surface can have openings per 302.3

ANSI 2006

ramp: A walking surface that has a running slope steeper than 1:20.

403 Walking Surfaces

403.1 General.

Walking surfaces that are a part of an accessible route shall comply with Section 403.

403.2 Floor Surface. 

Floor surfaces shall comply with Section 302.

302.3 Openings. 

Openings in floor surfaces shall be of a size that does not permit the passage of a ½ inch (13 mm) diameter sphere, except as allowed in Sections 407.4.3, 408.4.3, 409.4.3, 410.4, and 805.10. Elongated openings shall be placed so that the long dimension is perpendicular to the dominant direction of travel.


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## Gene Boecker (Jul 29, 2010)

I think you got your answer - but. . . .

Not sure why the stairs have to be accessible.

If it was just to the lower lube area, Section 1103.2.3 covers the employee aspect of it and exception #1 to 1104.4 covers any remaining question.

Regardless, the grating seems to be OK.


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## Rick18071 (Jul 30, 2010)

Gene - 1103.2.3 Employee work area......shall be designed so that individuals with disabilities can approach, enter and exit work area......

This also means a accessible turnaround space must be in the work area.

1104.4 says you don't need an accessible route to the basement.

This does not take away the accessible turn around space or exit, only the approach.

1007.1 accessible means of egress required for all accessible spaces.

1007.3 stairways permitted as accessible means of egress.


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## Gene Boecker (Jul 30, 2010)

Rick, I'd still bank on 1104.4, exception #1 to eliminate the need altogether.

Regarding the "work area" question.  The reason for that is so that a manager who may be a person who uses a wheelchair, can communicate with the employee.  Given the open pit, that is accomplished.

Of course, I haven't seen the plans so I'm speculating based on the other lube shops I've been to.  If the basement has more stuff down there then you're right, the employee area exception wouldn't be appropriate - but 1104.4 still does.


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## Rick18071 (Jul 31, 2010)

We have to be very strict in PA because the state comes out to check our accessibility inspections and they are very strict. Sometimes we may over do it but it's better than losing our state certs and losing my job.

The state even makes us check the tactile exit signs in alterations (like a tenant fit-out) even thou IBC 1007.1 exception 1 says accessible means of egress is not required in alterations to existing buildings.


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## peach (Jul 31, 2010)

I was (long ago) an expert witness in a case where a (drunken) woman dancing on a deck (in heels) got the heel stuck between the deck boards.  She broke her ankle and sued the establishment.  While I got a cool pair of shoes out of the deal (the same ones she was wearing.. just in my size and preferred color), we could prove that while the AIA standard was 1/4" between the boards (and was constructed), that you can, in fact, do substantial damage while wearing a 3/8" heel.

We were on the side of the defense in that case... a greater spacing would have allowed the heel to go in and come back out.. not get jammed (which is what happened).  The plaintiff's allegation was the deck boards were spaced too far apart.  We lost.

My point here is that there are times it's appropriate to have openings in stairs (F, H, S), where the floor surfaces can be slippery or wet.. other times.. not such a hot idea


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## Rick18071 (Aug 1, 2010)

I don't see many people with disabilities with heels, unless you count drunks. It just seems odd that ramps, where walkers, canes, wheel chairs, and crutches would likely be used can have openings but stairs can't. I would agree that it would be appropriate for openings in stairs in some cases, but the code doesn't agree.


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## Gene Boecker (Aug 2, 2010)

Walkers, canes and wheelchairs are a bit bigger than the open the proves problematic to high heels.  And, I don't see a lot of wheelchairs on stairs.


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## RJJ (Aug 3, 2010)

Gene: I can answer that one. Wheelchairs and stairs don't mix well. The reason you haven't seen that is they don't stay there very long.

I have been seen a number of accessible routes / entrances with a grating type mat to stop dirt and grit from entering a building. I have viewed them just as if they had been a change if floor covering. Just looking at the transition.


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## peach (Aug 3, 2010)

let them add it after you leave...


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