# ICC Survey Regarding Bulletin Boards



## cboboggs

Has anyone else received the email from ICC about their bulletin board survey?


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## rshuey

I did. i laughed pretty loud.


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## TimNY

Anybody else get the ICC Survey?

ICC sent me a survey regarding their "bulletin board" (and I use the term loosely) system.  It looks like they've finally realized the new system stinks and they are soliciting comments as well as trying to find people to help design a new system.  I declined to be involved in the redesign process, as I think the change was driven purely by greed.  Now that is has failed they want the people they screwed to help fix it?

My comment in their 'leave a comment box":



> As you are well aware, you completely screwed up when you moved to the new web site format.Whoever suggested the idea, designed the idea, reviewed the idea and approved the idea should be fired or reassigned, as they obviously have no idea what your members want, nor any grasp on how people interact on the web.
> 
> You torpedoed your site and all of your contributors have moved on the other sites (ok, well, we're all on the same site).  I seriously doubt that moving to any other message system will bring back the activity you once had.
> 
> Whose idea was it to reinvent the wheel?  vBulletin is a well-established bulletin board/messaging system used by thousands of sites throughout the world.  If what you implemented was actually a good idea, don't you think somebody else would have created it already?
> 
> I think the move was purely monetary; an attempt to make people purchase a membership to participate in discussions veiled in the disguise of a poorly designed new web site.  That's why my last option would be to return to your site if there are other sites available to accomplish the same goals.


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## TimNY

heh we posted at the same time (i started another thread).


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## Mech

Email from ICC Customer feedback

I just received the following email from the ICC:

*Share your ideas,** Mech*

As you may be aware, our ICCSafe.org was redesigned with the addition of our new Communities of Interest and new Discussion Boards to improve the interaction among our Members. As we continue to experiment with this format, it's clear that these tools are not as effective as we had hoped. As we review all options for new tools, we know many of you prefer our former bulletin board.

*We need your help*. Since you were a participant in our former bulletin board, we would like you to participate in a short survey to help us better understand what you need from our discussion boards. 

Some of you have been vocal about what you missed on our discussion boards. We have taken notes – want one discussion board, don’t require ICC Membership to use, highlight the newest postings, include email notification of new postings and more. We want to continue this exchange of ideas. Our goal is to change our discussion boards to match your needs. 

Please take a few moments to complete our short survey, linked below. We want this area of our site to be a valuable tool to the code community, not just for ICC members. 

TAKE SHORT SURVEY

We appreciate your time and input!

Sincerely,



Michael Armstrong

SVP, Membership and Outreach Services

==================================================================================

So if the ICC allows non-members to participate in the bulletin board, would anyone go back?


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## cboboggs

Good one Tim. I wasn't as brutal but I blasted them as well. I think the ICC is jealous.


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## inspecterbake

I took the survey what a joke


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## fatboy

I'm feeling left out.....I didn't no stinkin survey. sheesh.

I think the whole thing is pretty funny.


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## Uncle Bob

Yep,

"

*Share your ideas,** Uncle Bob*

As you may be aware, our ICCSafe.org was redesigned with the addition of our new Communities of Interest and new Discussion Boards to improve the interaction among our Members. As we continue to experiment with this format, *it's clear that these tools are not as effective as we had hoped*. As we review all options for new tools, we know many of you prefer our former bulletin board.

*We need your help*. Since you were a participant in our former bulletin board, we would like you to participate in a short survey to help us better understand what you need from our discussion boards. 

Some of you have been vocal about what you missed on our discussion boards. We have taken notes – want one discussion board, don’t require ICC Membership to use, highlight the newest postings, include email notification of new postings and more. We want to continue this exchange of ideas. Our goal is to change our discussion boards to match your needs. 

Please take a few moments to complete our short survey, linked below. We want this area of our site to be a valuable tool to the code community, not just for ICC members. 

We appreciate your time and input!

Sincerely,

I just wish they would put the old BB back; just like it was; and, I miss our old friend; "The Webmaster".

Everyone should say "Put it back; exactly like it was!; and pay Uncle Bob $60,000.00 per year to be the Webmaster"   

Uncle Bob


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## fatboy

I wouldn't go back even if they restored it to it's previous life. May sound petty but..........

First time the horse kicks you, it's the horses fault.


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## packsaddle

It will never be the same.

ICC crawled into bed with the federal government, now they have to live with their decision.

It's kinda like that John Conley song ("Old School") where the lady leaves her high school sweetheart, friends, and hometown to chase down money and glamour, but realizes later that money and glamour isn't all that great so she tries to come back to her high school sweetheart, friends, and hometown only to find out that nobody wants her anymore.


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## MarkRandall

I received the survey and may respond back, not sure yet.

I was really vocal back when they made the switch by sending emails to the board telling them why it needed to be open to more than members. I did get emails back from the board, but mainly they dumped the issue back to a lower person who basically told me this is the way it is and going to be. Join ICC was what they wanted me to do. So I'm locked out and have never seen the "new" discussion board.

I'm certainly happy to stay here, but I do have to admit that I'm not as active here as I was on the old ICC board and I'm not sure why that is so.


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## north star

** * **

*I have not taken any survey, but I would not want to go back!*

*I believe ICC to be a necessary evil, and [ for the time being ]*

*they have cornered the market on the codes.   FWIW, I will*

*not be participating in any surveys.*



*That said, if Jeff [ **and ONLY Jeff** ] decides that he no longer*

*wants to, or cannot provide this board to all of us, then I will*

*cross that bridge when and if I get to it.*

*I also concur with fatboy!   We haz been kicked purty hard*

*already.  *

** * **


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## MarkRandall

Packsaddle, I am curious about your comment on the Federal government. I would like to know what has changed in that respect.


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## texas transplant

Fatboy,

Maybe I just like to get kicked   , but.....

If the ICC really tries to make things better and addresses other problems  (I think the broken code change process is lots worse than the website and bulletin board problem) we need to participate.   The worst thing that could happen is someone in Washington decides that since a private group can't do codes, the Feds are going to take everything over.

I say wait and see, participate as we can and see what happens.  We have had lip service before, but maybe they are going to really start getting their act together.

BTW, my email was addressed to my screen name on this bulletin board not my name and I don't use this screen name anywhere else.   How was everyone else's email addressed?


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## packsaddle

MarkRandall said:
			
		

> Packsaddle, I am curious about your comment on the Federal government. I would like to know what has changed in that respect.


ICC lobbied heavily to be specifically mentioned in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act.

However, getting in bed with the federal government (especially THIS administration) comes with a very high price.

This adequately explains ICC's recent shift in ideology from basic life safety standards (i.e. fire, structural) to new "green" and "sustainable" standards.


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## Alias

Well, I just took the survey and blasted ICC's 'Communities of Interest'.  I told them I would not be back and called it like it is, a 'pay to play' BB without many members.

Dear Sue....................sure, here's my survey.........


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## Uncle Bob

How about someone who "can get on" the new forum; taking a look and giving us some feedback; on what is happening there?

How many post?  Participation? etc.

Uncle Bob


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## TimNY

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> How about someone who "can get on" the new forum; taking a look and giving us some feedback; on what is happening there?How many post?  Participation? etc.
> 
> Uncle Bob


Since i had to log on when I was doing my certs a few months back, I took a look.  Dead.


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## texas transplant

Not much out there on the ICC Communities of Interest, Uncle Bob.   It looks the same and has about the same sort of response it has since it started.

BTW it only took me 8 minutes to get to the communities of interest after I started trying to log in.  The ICC site is working great.


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## TimNY

Bottom line for me is that the exchange of information should be free.  Granted there is some expense in maintaining a bulletin board, but having done it myself I know it's not monumental.  ICC charges for membership and for the books themselves; I think they have a duty to provide for discussion at no charge.

If actual ICC employees were providing interps on the site when questions were posed, I could see it being members only.

Essentially you could provide the same service they were providing by creating your own yahoo group.


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## jim baird

I took the survey.  I also take part in a national planners' board since I am also a zoning guy.  Also belong to a private inspector's forum since I do those too. Between this board and those I don't have much time for others.  I am not bitter about it, but I still think that board had more active participation and was a broader sample of this particular "community of interest" (where have I heard that b4?)


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## Uncle Bob

TimNY,

"If actual ICC employees were providing interps on the site when questions were posed, I could see it being members only."

I've called ICC and asked a code question; and the response was "We were discussing that the other day; and couldn't figure it out either."

When a code question was put to the "old ICC forum" it was cussed and discussed; with code section quotes, real world examples, and ideas from professionals who worked with, and had real world expeirence with that code section; including Engineers, Architects, Builders, Contractors, Manufacturer's and Organization Reps, Building Officials, Plans Examiners, Inspectors; and even a few kibizers.

That's what works; and that's what's wrong with the new ICC forum!  "They ain't got; and don't get it."

But, hey, this makes for a good role call for us,  

Uncle Bob


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## conarb

I took the survey and recommended just re-instituting the old Bulletin Board, as antiquated as it was.  Everyone was familiar with it, about the only thing you couldn't do was attach images but everyone soon found out that they could sign up for free hosting services to embed images.  I told them that if they did just revive it that most everyone would come back, even those mad at them for the change. Frankly I find these half UBB half HTML boards like vBulletin difficult, my preference would be full HTML or plain UBB Code like the old Bulletin Board.

Many fora have updated to take advertising, lots on money can be made with Google AdSense if you are formatted right, but neither the ICC nor these fora take advertising. I even told them that many like old things, many of us keep our old wives even when newer models are available, sometimes older is better, we are creatures of habit.  Older codes are certainly better than the newer codes as all are finding out.


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## vegas paul

I took the survey.  I reiterated whay I told them in Baltimore last year (Peach was there in the discussion, too.)  They didn't listen then, and now I believe it's much too late to get anyone back.

Here's what they don't get:  If you allow/encourage NON-members to participate in the BB, they might see value, and join the ICC!


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## syarn

looks to me like icc has about 92 discussions since 10/27/2009 with about 80 original posting members;

the most replies on one discussion post is 10; a large majority of the posts had either 0, 1 or 2 replies....

it's ashame...

thanks jeff for doing this one....


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## RickAstoria

cboboggs said:
			
		

> Has anyone else received the email from ICC about their bulletin board survey?


I did. I answered their questions from my perspective and helped to explain what made the existing bulletin board as great and suggestions. I have no problems with the new features but I think having the existing bulletin board (on its own isolated server to protect the database - in order for it to function properly) along with the new features and Communities of Interest. But it needs a more public access in order to stimulate discussion.  Maybe some improvements other technical improvements and visual layout.

The idea of the new features are fine and great but they borked it when the bulletin board they had got closed for a period (and closed from new posts to it) and when access was only to ICC Members. Eventually, they implemented access to former members like me and I believe some others but the "John Q. Public" was the important people. They brought questions that stimulated discussions. This is a key to the recipe for a good flow of discussions.


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## fw.

texas transplant said:
			
		

> BTW, my email was addressed to my screen name on this bulletin board not my name and I don't use this screen name anywhere else.   How was everyone else's email addressed?


My email was addressed to my old screen name on the ICC Bulletin Board (fw, without the period, need 3 characters here).  I too blasted them for the changes.  Best part was I was on the second to last page when there was a problem on their end and I had start all over again.  I think I typed inspectpa.com too many times.


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## conarb

One thing that I did not mention, but all should know here, the control is pretty heavy-handed over there, I started a thread on how to find ICBO Legacy Reports, I was specifically interested in the DuPont Tyvek Legacy Reports, the thread immediately disappeared, I did not mention that I wanted them for legal purposes. A question then remains, do we really want a forum moderated to the extent that they attempt to deny access to information?


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## FM William Burns

Sour Grape "Crock of Crap"

I got the survey and deleted it before I really knew what it was, so I guess my answer to them would be an old favorite movie line from George Kennedy in Thunderbolt and Lightfoot...."Hey Kid why don't you go %$*# a Duck"

Looked at it per UB's request about fifteen minutes ago and it's as dead as it was 1.5. years ago when I believe I last posted on it.


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## Mule

Addressed to GrayHeadedMuleI answered as honest as I could.UB...here's the stats

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## MarkRandall

I just finished the survey and I'm copying below my general comments to them as I think this group lacks one thing (ability of average Joe with a question to find a place to ask that question).

"I have little reason to come back to the ICC bulletin board as there is a thriving group elsewhere. The only thing the ICC offers over that group is the ability for someone with questions to easily find a place to discuss their question (provided the discussion board is open to all). I miss the occasional home or building owner who is not understanding something and coming to the ICC board looking for some help, guidance and/or clarification of their issue. This type of person isn't likely to find the alternate newsgroup."

Another comment to the ICC, is I would be much more active if (this group or) in any group that was made accessible using a newsreader like Outlook Express, Thunderbird or MS Live. Autodesk recently moved all their groups to online and I have yet to visit the online forums. Probably will at some point, but I really don't like online newsgroups. I've never had a choice with this or the old ICC group. Or if I did have a choice, I didn't know about it.

Rick, they (ICC) allowed you to continue posting without being a member? Was that early on or after they realized they weren't getting enough people there to make it useful? I guess once they closed the system to non-members, I gave up on them.


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## RickAstoria

The biggest problem is NOT the new tools and features. But how they implemented it as a "Member's Only" board, caused a big disruption. I don't mind the new features but if they had kept the old BB (even if the BB is technically operating on a separate webserver with its own SQL database) and with links to it without requiring membership and access to some of the Communities of Interests features such as the Discussion Board and not require ICC Membership to access and use.

The thing that they borked the hardest on is the ICC Membership requirement to access. That is what hurt them the most in my objective opinion. If they brought it back to full-functioning order (such as posting) and some of the Communities of Interest features - accessible to the general public (and NOT just ICC Members) would go along way in improving on this end. There are others that ICC needs to improve upon as well. That is for another discussion.

I would be willing to participate on that board. Now, this does not mean we stop participating on this forum, either. It be a correction of their course of action. There is NO technical reason where they can't make it all work. It can all be solved.

If ICC takes this seriously then it be great. I think it will be best that we respond objectively.  Blast them civilly on what they did and borked. Then civil suggestions about how to improve things. The new features are not the problem in my eyes. They are just that. What the big problem, in my opinion, is how they initially implemented it: ICC Member only among other things. This killed existing discussions with general public that stimulated much of the discussions. It can be restored over time and more discussions can occur but some technical improvements can help a little but getting it open to public and having the "Code Talk" forum we originally had - available (with posting ability) will help. Communities of Interest's Discussion Boards should also be available to anyone. Some other features might not need to be available to everyone - thus requiring ICC Membership.

Closing off from the public and requiring ICC Membership was the big problem.


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## FredK

Well I typed back that I didn't think many would change from another code board back to theirs.


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## RickAstoria

MarkRandall said:
			
		

> I just finished the survey and I'm copying below my general comments to them as I think this group lacks one thing (ability of average Joe with a question to find a place to ask that question)."I have little reason to come back to the ICC bulletin board as there is a thriving group elsewhere. The only thing the ICC offers over that group is the ability for someone with questions to easily find a place to discuss their question (provided the discussion board is open to all). I miss the occasional home or building owner who is not understanding something and coming to the ICC board looking for some help, guidance and/or clarification of their issue. This type of person isn't likely to find the alternate newsgroup."
> 
> Another comment to the ICC, is I would be much more active if (this group or) in any group that was made accessible using a newsreader like Outlook Express, Thunderbird or MS Live. Autodesk recently moved all their groups to online and I have yet to visit the online forums. Probably will at some point, but I really don't like online newsgroups. I've never had a choice with this or the old ICC group. Or if I did have a choice, I didn't know about it.
> 
> Rick, they (ICC) allowed you to continue posting without being a member? Was that early on or after they realized they weren't getting enough people there to make it useful? I guess once they closed the system to non-members, I gave up on them.


It was an after-thought. I was surprised but I think they did that around the time they brought the old "Code Talk" forum back in Read-Only format.

That also is part of the problem. Lack of communication. They failed to let many of us know. So, some improvement would help in how ICC does things like communication and getting opinion from the public and others can be improved upon. This survey could be a good start. I don't have a problem with the new features so much but I certainly would have liked to have been talking and continuing to discuss topics on the old "Code Talk" and have at least SOME of the features of the Communities of Interest areas like the Discussion Boards and other features without having to be ICC Members.

Making it clear and open to general public is key. With some features available only to ICC Members. Which is fine. But the rest of us can continue like we have been. Of course, it would take time for any forum to get discussions moving and public involvement. I think, that is the most important message. In itself, it is an ICC "Outreach" to have an open access. I feel it was a shot in their own feet to close off from the public.


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## RickAstoria

FredK said:
			
		

> Well I typed back that I didn't think many would change from another code board back to theirs.


If they make corrective measure then some of us may return to participate BUT we  aren't going to discontinue using the other forums as well like this one.

It will be a matter of time and if they can get the general public involvement again, it would be good to see.


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## conarb

The ICC has been busy today, I just go this:



> *Code Development  Committee Meeting Update*Dear Members:
> 
> The Code Development  Review Ad Hoc Committee (CDRAC) recently completed its first meeting. Chaired by  Board member Cindy Davis, and composed of seven code official board members and  six industry members, the CDRAC is charged with addressing critical issues  impacting the code development process. Please click  here to review a summary of the first CDRAC meeting. In August the CDRAC  will discuss an integrated approach to issues ranging from ratification to  remote voting and other issues, which collectively require a strategic focus.  Your ongoing feedback is very much appreciated as the CDRAC continues its  work.
> 
> Sincerely
> 
> The International Code Council


Now just who might Cindy Davis be?


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## Uncle Bob

Mule,

Thanks for the update. Nothing has changed.

By the way; when they first started the new forum; I found that they had made up fake questions and attempted to answer them in order to start the threads. Probably still some of that going on.

Their survey is most likely a ploy to get some of us to come back; the people in charge of the BB will most likely use any sign-ins to show they are doing their job.

They didn't listen before and won't listen now; unfortunately.

Any meeting they invite some of us to; will be controled and intimidating; just like the last one.

Uncle Bob


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## RickAstoria

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> Mule,Thanks for the update. Nothing has changed.
> 
> By the way; when they first started the new forum; I found that they had made up fake questions and attempted to answer them in order to start the threads. Probably still some of that going on.
> 
> Their survey is most likely a ploy to get some of us to come back; the people in charge of the BB will most likely use any sign ins to show they are doing their job.
> 
> They didn't listen before and won't listen now; unfortunately.
> 
> Any meeting they invite some of us to; will be controled and intimidating; just like the last one.
> 
> Uncle Bob


I'm not holding my breath but I'll sit back and see if things happen. It be interesting out of shear curiosity sake.


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## TimNY

Personally, I like vB.  Point well taken on bbcode/html, but vB is really on the forefront of bulletin board systems.  I'm on many sites and they all run vB.  It's what I'm used to.

If Ford released a car and put the driver's seat on the right side and said "hey, it's easier to parallel park like this", I would be equally resistant.  I like function and familiarity.  Personally I don't think their new format was of any benefit at all.


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## FM William Burns

A little testy in the last post.......picked the wrong week to give up my bad habits.....I'll do similar as Rick and wait to see where this goes and absolutely take nothing away from this forum and it’s contributors and readers.


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## Uncle Bob

For those who didn't or couldn't take the survey; towards the end; we were asked for our phone number and e-mail address (how do they think we got survey?).

The purpose was stated; that they plan to invite (a select few) to meet with them and discuss how they can improve the crap they have now.

I'm sure they are reading these posts; to determine which of us will conform to "their ideas"; and, hopefully have enough influence to come back here and persuade the rest of us to go back; "without any signifiant changes".

I don't see any changes coming forth.

Uncle Bob


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## vegas paul

Here's the strategy... answer all the survey questions with as complimentary a tone as you can, towards the "Communities of Interest".  Be as positive and courteous as you can, supporting their effort to improve the BB.  Then you will be selected as one of the select few who will be invited to participate in the meeting... then tell them what you really think!


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## RJJ

I did Just that three times for three different ahj's! Do you think they got the message. They are reading this BB and tracking its progress. The BB is growing slowly and has an average of just under 300 active members. The members from the old BB are the back bone. I wish we could reach more private people. Also, would like to see an increase in DP & E come on. So reach out to those around you and encourage them to join. Raise some question and improve each other. Just remember it is free.


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## mtlogcabin

> Now just who might Cindy Davis be?


Looks like Cindy and Peach have a passion for codes

*Board Profile: Cindy Davis *

Disaster could strike at any moment and threaten the safety of thousands of Pennsylvanians. Luckily one of the Keystone State’s First Preventers, Cindy Davis of Butler, is in a position to _prevent _harm _before _a disaster occurs. Davis, Building Official and Zoning Officer for Butler Township, recently was elected to the International Code Council Board of Directors.

“Being a part of the Code Council is being part of an organization that is of paramount importance when it comes to our nation’s safety,” Davis said. “I am committed to educating the public on the crucial work of Code Council members, the many unsung First Preventers who work daily to save lives and protect property.”

First Preventers are those many unheralded code officials who check and double-check code compliance. First Preventers, and the building and fire safety codes they enforce, play a major role in saving lives, protecting property and reducing recovery costs often paid for by taxpayer dollars.

As a member of the Code Council Board, Davis will help oversee the complex process of creating building and fire safety codes that protect life and property in Butler and jurisdictions across America and around the world.

“We must continue to cultivate relationships with local, state and federal government to raise the profile of our profession,” Davis said. “Because you cannot quantify what doesn't happen, the importance of codes as proactive measures is often overlooked.”

A 20-year veteran of municipal code enforcement, Davis holds numerous professional certifications and is an instructor for the Pennsylvania Construction Codes Academy. She was honored as Pennsylvania Code Official of the Year in 2002.

“Cindy’s passion for building safety makes Butler and the world a safer place,” said International Code Council CEO Rick Weiland. “Her commitment to providing a safe environment speaks well of the community she serves every day.”

Cindy L Davis Butler, PAAccessibility Inspector/Plans Examiner

Building Inspector

Certified Building Official

Commercial Building Inspector

Commercial Energy Inspector

Commercial Mechanical Inspector

Commercial Plumbing Inspector

Fire Inspector I

Fire Inspector II

Mechanical Inspector

Residential Building Inspector

Residential Combination Inspector

Residential Electrical Inspector

Residential Energy Inspector/Plans Examiner

Residential Mechanical Inspector

Residential Plumbing Inspector


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## RJJ

HEY ALL! Peach is not Cindy Davis!


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## Yankee

Why do they even WANT a bulletin board? What good is it to them? I'll tell them to give it up.


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## peach

ibid... ditto.. my comments were pretty similar (but I did send it back).

haha RJJ... you're right (I have more certs).


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## Daddy-0-

I for one am very interested to hear what Jeff has to say on this topic. Playing devil's advocate here I think that the fact that they are eating crow and admitting failure is both hilarious and also professional in a way. If they brought back the old BB the way it was I would participate. I think that all of us should feel obligated to participate because it would do what we do here...educate, learn, vent, reminisce, argue and thus make for a better qualified group of construction professionals. I feel that we are obligated to participate and help where we can because this is our livelihood. The problem is that people don't know about this site and other similar sites. When people look for help and information about codes they seek the ICC. If the ICC BB lacks code experts it only hurts the cause. I was angry when they shut us down also but I will participate actively here and there if they bring it back like it was. I know that this is not a popular position right now but I feel that it is a good position.

Jeff....thoughts....

What will you all do if JAR has to shut this one down for some reason? I like this board the best but I am at least willing to hear what they have to say. Ducking now.


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## JBI

Relax Daddy-O, no slinging of stones here.

My biggest issues were about making it a pay site and the whole Communities of Interest concept that I felt limited discussion rather than encouraged it.

I have not returned my survey, but did get one under my old ICC username. I went a few times after the change, but between poor access and poor useability, just gave up. At that point this board was up and running, and most of the 'regulars' found their way here. I like it here, but mostly because of the company. Like family. Bring THAT back to the ICC board, let us have some fun and post where we want to post.


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## globe trekker

Seems that the ICC survey has touched a nerve.   What is evident to me here is

that we all have and demonstrate a sincere passion, ...some a little, ...some a

lot.

Our benevolent benefactor Jeff,   has graciously provided an excellent,  fully

functioning forum for everyone, ...no membership required, and did I mention

that it is  *** F R E E ***?    I for one,  DO feel a great sense of gratitude and

loyalty to Jeff for stepping up,  at a time when we all needed an alternative.

I continue to have mixed thoughts and feelings about ICC and their decisions.

They sure as heck didn't ask me for my input on their decision to change their

format and entry requirements to their site [ and associated databases  ] and

I was a fully active,  registered member at the time.

There are a lot of us on here that well remember Coca-Cola's decision to

go from the "old" Coke  to the "new" Coke without testing their market

waters.   They just made the decision, thinking that "new" Coke would be

better and the public wouldn't notice.    That decision turned out to be

one of the most costly ( $$$  ) marketing blunders in history - - see

the link.

http://www.thecoca-colacompany.com/heritage/cokelore_newcoke.html

The members on this board are nowhere near the numbers of the

American public as it relates to quantity,  but we DO relate in that we

have an industry leader  [ the ICC "Cash Cow" ] that didn't bother to

get our [ the old Bulletin Board members ] input on their "new" Bulletin

Board look, and even if they had,  ...they would not have listened!     I believe

that they are still not listening,  but rather maneuvering.

I have not received any surveys.   If I do, I will not participate.       I have

found a good home here thanks to Jeff,  AND to all of you!

*Everyone* on this board has helped me in one way or another.

My hope is that Jeff "will"  and  "can" continue to provide this site for us.

.


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## packsaddle

> haha RJJ... you're right (I have more certs).


No you don't.

You have waaaaaaaaaay more certs.


----------



## mtlogcabin

Sorry Peach I did not mean to imply that you where Cindy (there is only one Peach)

It is nice to see women involved in the codes that are not Architects or Engineers by proffession/training.


----------



## north star

** * **

*How do you know that peach isn't an architect or engineer by*

*profession / training?*

*FWIW, me thinks that she IS an engineer by training... *

*BTW, you are correct! There is only one " peach "! * 

** * **


----------



## mtlogcabin

Now I am realy embarrassed I did not follow my own signature 

Double apology to Peach


----------



## Uncle Bob

MLC,

Thanks for making my day; that's too funny.   

Been there; done that,

Uncle Bob


----------



## ewenme

I haven't take the survey yet, but I got the invite. I will tell ICC the same thing that I posted early-on on this BB: I've found my new home page, and it's not ICC. I go to ICC to buy books, to check Evaluation Reports, to renew my certs, etc., but that's about the size of it. The discussions here, even when I don't participate with my two cents worth, are valuable to read, and sometimes good for a laugh. No going back.


----------



## Daddy-0-

JBI,

I am not mad or upset. I am not (making up a word) rileupable. I love this site and will stay put; however, we do not yet reach enough of an audience to have a big impact. Clearly they have shot themselves in the foot with this one and I am only saying that we should not yet slam the door in their face. Remember that on some level we all have to deal with the ICC on a daily basis and if we have the opportunity to try to make them better why not add our 2cents? Just my opinion. I know it may not be popular but it is just an opinion.

I also feel like this core group here is a family. I like to try and add my small piece to that puzzle when I can.

I also blasted them on the survey for charging for the board among other things. Not trying to sling stones at you, the ICC or anyone else. Just adding fodder.


----------



## peach

ICC is reaching out to us; I think we should participate.  We participate in the code change hearings as we can (I haven't heard of a boycott of the hearings) and we enforce the codes they promulgate.

We're all code enforcement professionals; I for one will listen to what they have to say.

This is still the site to go to and I don't have the patience to try to log into the Communities of Interest.. I still maintain my membership with them.


----------



## Inspector Gift

It's good to read everyone's comments.  I appreciate Peach's perspective and reasoning most of all.  Yes, I feel betrayed by ICC.   But like a divorce, it doesn't mean that we can't be professionals and work together.   I will continue to hope for the best... and be prepared for the worst.

PS:  Thanks Jeff for this site, and for your part in keeping our collective group of professionals and excentrics together!


----------



## JBI

Daddy-O - I was referring to the last part of your post... "Ducking now." and I meant noone was going to throw stones at YOU! LOL You crack me up!


----------



## mark handler

Inspector Gift

Washington Then Oregon and now Montana

Getting around....


----------



## RickAstoria

Inspector Gift said:
			
		

> It's good to read everyone's comments.  I appreciate Peach's perspective and reasoning most of all.  Yes, I feel betrayed by ICC.   But like a divorce, it doesn't mean that we can't be professionals and work together.   I will continue to hope for the best... and be prepared for the worst.PS:  Thanks Jeff for this site, and for your part in keeping our collective group of professionals and excentrics together!


Good point, Terre.

If ICC is now making steps back in the right direction then professionally, we should strive to help them. I think we need to be level-headed in this while conveying our points. I don't have any issue with the new features per se. Supplanting a working system that was working well with a system (that certainly has potential) in a manner that was initially closed off to public and is sort of still or has the appearance of that on the front end. If they added these new features with the old "Code Talk" board (in full functioning order) and kept some of the new features like the Communities of Interest Discussion Boards open to everyone as was the Code Talk section then I would say that it would been not such an issue. Now, doing that would be a step in returning to the correct course of action while consulting our opinions and honestly considering it, would be a good step.

The new features such as the Job Openings listing is a good and useful feature. This is my opinion. Trust is another topic altogether and will take time for ICC to re-earn. Working professionally with open eyes will be the modus of operandi for any time foreseeable.


----------



## RickAstoria

mark handler said:
			
		

> Inspector GiftWashington Then Oregon and now Montana
> 
> Getting around....


Yeah, he moved to a job position in Montana about a year ago - IIRC.


----------



## TimNY

Having a unique bulletin board system for one site just does not make sense.  Perhaps if you do not frequent any other systems it doesn't make that big of a difference.

When NFPA solicited questions for their bulletin board system, I told them the same thing.  Have you ever looked at the NFPA discussion boards?  Similarly confusing and dead.

If you want to promote participation versus inflate your own ego "hey, look how much money we spent building this new system", you stick with what is familiar.

I don't understand how moving our conversations to their site benefits us.  They don't provide anything in return, except increased censoring.

They could, instead, work with us.  When you click on the "Communities of Interest", it redirects here


----------



## Gene Boecker

Whew!

What a couple of weeks!

I just got to take the survey and posted my comments.  One item I mentioned was the fact Ha the "old bulletin board" had a sense of camaraderie that is not present in the new Discussion boards on the ICC site.

And, there are two technical things that make using the Discussion boards a pain in the . .  well. . a real hemorrhoid.

1. There's no way to know when someone has posted a comment on any given topic without going to the discussion board (and that's about fifteen clicks from the main page); and

2. you can't back out effectively.  The back button gets to you a page that's expired and then you need to refresh - again adding time.

Bottom line, it's impersonal and overly complicated - unlike this one (and the old board).

Oh, TinNY, If we'd get them to redirect to this site, I think a few people might have to eat crow and swallow their pride.  Not going to happen.


----------



## jpranch

I filled out the survey. They didn't listen in Baltimore so I really don't think they will listen (or "get it") now?


----------



## FM William Burns

Ah yes Gene......it's all about clicks now days.

Other's - Feeling much better today and I'll still wait to see how it pans out.


----------



## RJJ

Yes JP and I sat in to the fire side in Baltimore along with others from other states. I listen and later invited Dominic to post here and give some real debate. Am I disgruntle? Sure am! I don't disagree with Peach's approach, But since the twin cites mess to the present I just hear lip service. Most of you know I feel every member should be able to vote and not have to spend money they don't have to attend a hearing. Hearings are good and have educational aspects to them, but the real nuts and bolts are the code provision and the votes for them. Sorry to say that when the hall is filled with bought votes, something is wrong!

The changes I have seen are not improvements at ICC. The BB turn off is only one grain of sand on a beach that is polluted. Sorry for the rant and I will get off the stump. JMHO!

one more thing! There is nothing I would like better then to see real change at ICC. A real professional code group. Not sure I will live to see that!


----------



## Gene Boecker

RJJ, I'd love it if every member got to vote.  Then maybe I could do that once in my lifetime.

On the substantive note, there is discussion about a six month moratorium on voting privileges for all new members.  That would eliminate the last minute bought votes.  They are also looking at changing the funding provisions for attendance so that chapters are OK, municipalities are OK and the member is OK but no funding from anyone that is profit driven or represents an organization with products involved in building construction.


----------



## texas transplant

Gene,

How could they monitor and enforce funding for attendance?   Granted they could exclude letting Mr. Building Material pay for all of us on the BB to register for the conference, but how they going to really monitor something like that?


----------



## Gene Boecker

texas transplant said:
			
		

> Gene,How could they monitor and enforce funding for attendance? Granted they could exclude letting Mr. Building Material pay for all of us on the BB to register for the conference, but how they going to really monitor something like that?


They're not "monitoring it.  They're just saying what the rules are.  That way if someone complains, they can investigate and dismiss the vote if allegations prove warranted.  And, if Mr. wine and vents is paying for someone's attendance and vote, both can be expelled from membership or censored from attending future hearings.


----------



## texas transplant

I see.  It more of the lip service from ICC.  Not whining at you Gene.  Its just that an unenforceable rule is like an unenforceable code, the good guys will follow the rules and the bad guys still do what they want.  There are so many easy ways to cover that up if you want too.  And for the money at stake for some industries, it would be worth it.


----------



## Gene Boecker

haha.

No offense taken, TT.

It's like speeding though.  Drive as fast as you want to. . . .  until you get caught.

Interestingly, the NFPA came up with similar rules about 10 years ago.  I'm not a fan of their final rules - talk about confusing - but they do have a process.


----------



## RJJ

My thoughts on the support money for people to attend are as follows. If the Town or city pays your way to attend that's great. It can be in a yearly budget. Public info. For those who can't afford the expense to attend they would have to apply for support money. The support money could be in an escrow form or type of account. It could be set aside for yearly membership fees to ICC. So that means the upper levels of management may need a pay cut. Now if you apply and are granted support funds for a given year base on finical need of an individual or community then  three years would have to pass until you would be allow to apply again. In that way it would get spread around.

Now every member should be able to vote from the office or home on any issue. The reason and excuses just don't fly anymore. Members in good standing should all be able to vote. Not just the 20 or 30 people in the room. This is not rocket science. You don't get to post on this board unless you are a member. Two guys  manage this when we have the time.

And as for the problems with band width with the old BB and the non function of the new one maybe they need to contact us for how it should work.


----------



## jpranch

ICC?......

View attachment 160


View attachment 160


/monthly_2010_04/cash-cow..jpg.bcb1e8bb68684ebabc1a78ee060c1f03.jpg


----------



## texas transplant

You win JP you are even more cynical than me.  LOL


----------



## mtlogcabin

Just got asked to fill out the same survey a second time. Maybe they did not like my answers the first time and are giving me another chance


----------



## texas transplant

Just got mine too.   Guess the first was sent as a past user of the old bulletin board, today was as someone who has visited the ICC site in the last year.


----------



## Gene Boecker

Me too!

I'm guessing that there's no matching of responses with invitations since the name on the survey is optional.

(How would they know?)


----------



## mark handler

Gene Boecker said:
			
		

> (How would they know?)


*They know everything*


----------



## 88twin

ICC member for six years

posted on ICC BB until this one started

never got a survey

bummer...harder to dance alone

not impossible just more difficult


----------



## mark handler

88twin said:
			
		

> never got a survey


You probably changed your email address, or you checked the box asking that the moderator not contact you


----------



## jpranch

I didn't get the second one. Guess they saw the picture of the cow on this site combined with my comments on the first survey.

View attachment 161


View attachment 161


/monthly_2010_04/cash-cow..jpg.edb155981ec6d309dac226ec5ce865dc.jpg


----------



## peach

anyone else find it just a little scary that they could find us?


----------



## jpranch

Ah hell peach. It ain't that hard. Besides, If Rich Weildan, (mispelled name) wants my a** he is more than welcome to what little is left.


----------



## Uncle Bob

ICC is going to keep sending the survey to you until you get it right.

Uncle Bob


----------



## RJJ

I notice Jeff hasn't responded to the? about shutting down this site. He may have just not read that post. Jeff and I talk on a regular bases. If for any reason or at some point Jeff wants out I will take over the site. He knows I am willing to do what ever it takes to keep it going including money and that does don't take a whole lot. Jeff can add or correct anything I have stated, but from our conversations he is delighted to provide this forum for open discussion. I am as well. Also, enough people have volunteered to moderate debates that get out of hand. We are big boys and Girls so this has not been a problem with policing ourselves.

Hopefully, more will join us and add to the flavor and variety of discussions. In time the public will find us and more professionals as well. Each user can spread the word to whom ever they come in contact with. Search engines are constantly gathering info off this site, so in time it will pop up in many different places.

Regarding ICC site: It will never return to what it was. The lights are out. The good old days are just a memory. Some times change is good and it is often hard to except it when it arrives, but I see good things that have happened as a result of the old BB closing. I also see a need to correct the wrongs that exist at ICC.

For now no worries about this site. We want the input from members to try to improve the site. We want open discussion about codes and other issues. We both relay on and respect those who contribute and most of all we both want the interactions with other code officials.

ps: Jeff pipe in at any time!


----------



## jpranch

Jeff & rjj, Last year I distributed business cards in Baltimore avertizing this site. I will be going to Charlotte this fall and planned on doing it again with your permission. What do you think?


----------



## north star

** * **

*RJJ,*

*I think that you have stated the obvious rather well.*

** * **


----------



## RJJ

JP Good idea! Put some in the book store as well!

I still have a few left. I give them out when ever the opportunity comes up. Not sure if I will be in Charlotte! Money and things and events changing around me. I would like to go cause I will be about two hrs. away from my youngest. It would be good for a visit. Just not sure yet.

anyway just spread the word and just like field of dreams they will come. Don't worry about the site! Just post questions and have fun, learn and enrich each other.


----------



## conarb

JP & RJJ:

What are the highlights going to be in Charlotte?


----------



## jpranch

Sure would like to have a card that looks a lot more professional. Need some good graphic design. Any takers? I'll take care of the printing and distribution.


----------



## FM William Burns

BTW.......reagrding:



> Also, enough people have volunteered to moderate debates that get out of hand. We are big boys and Girls so this has not been a problem with policing ourselves.


Where has Brudgers gone?  I did like him/her!

*JP,*

You can extract the material from the cards and use Microsoft Publisher or some other installed software similar on your PC and design a card that looks better.


----------



## mtlogcabin

> Where has Brudgers gone? I did like him/her


Yes he does challenge us and has made me think outside the box on a couple of issues.

JP

Get with your high school or college graphics arts department when school starts. They may get their students to participate as a class project


----------



## globe trekker

jp,

Send me a PM with what you want on your card and I'll give it a try.  

BTW, does anyone know what we're calling this site... ???  Was there

ever a consensus on a name?   The Advanced Code Group Forum,

...Jeff's Place,  ...The Codes Forum,  ...The "NEW"  Codes Forum,

The "No Resemblance To ICC In Any Manner" Codes Forum, ...other?

.


----------



## RJJ

Conarb! If I make the show it could be JP and I charging the stage. Or carrying around the Cash Cow Signs JP has been painting up all winter!


----------



## jpranch

One more time!

View attachment 162


View attachment 162


/monthly_2010_08/COW..jpg.2059e5e9d2a5dfd6dd1d5ba6bd01efbf.jpg


----------



## RJJ

LOL! That's them!


----------



## FyrBldgGuy

How is it possible to have active discussion with no members?

View attachment 163


icc..pdf

icc..pdf


----------



## Gene Boecker

FM William Burns said:
			
		

> BTW.......reagrding:Where has Brudgers gone? I did like him/her!


The last time I remember him adding any comments was when I outed his identity by calling him "Ben."  A little Googling found that he's Ben Rudgers, an architect in Auburn Alabama.  He uses the same moniker on other discussion posts so it wasn't difficult.

Oh, and FyrBldgGuy, That's a bug in their program.  They know about it.  It's just a lot lower on the priority list than other issues with the web site.  I just can't believe they actually launched the site without it being fully tested.


----------



## cda

just wanted to be 100!!!!!!!!!!!

one thing about this site, is if you try to find it from a search engine it is hard, give it a try without knowing the name of the site!!!!!

Not an internet person, so do not know how to resolve that.

I have used building code, building code disscussion, building code forum, etc


----------



## cda

"""missed by that much""""


----------



## FM William Burns

Thanks Gene!



I would like to see him back posting on here!



BTW…. The signs are a really nice touch….he….he


----------



## mtlogcabin

> I just can't believe they actually launched the site without it being fully tested.


Remember they are located in Washington DC now where a lot of things are being launched with no testing being done


----------



## RickAstoria

Gene Boecker said:
			
		

> The last time I remember him adding any comments was when I outed his identity by calling him "Ben."  A little Googling found that he's Ben Rudgers, an architect in Auburn Alabama.  He uses the same moniker on other discussion posts so it wasn't difficult.Oh, and FyrBldgGuy, That's a bug in their program.  They know about it.  It's just a lot lower on the priority list than other issues with the web site.  I just can't believe they actually launched the site without it being fully tested.


Oh, he's on the areforum.org forum. I believe he still frequents this forum.


----------



## RJJ

CDA: That will improve with time! problem is I excluded a bunch of bots that gather Internet info early on. I didn't know the difference between a good bot and a bad one.  & Gene why be surprised about not testing the site before launching it.  Jeff put this up in a few hours. We never tested  and yes we have some bugs. If memory severs me correctly we talked at around 6pm and this thing was working the next morning.


----------



## Gordon

I used to visit the former ICC web site quite often. I thought it was one of the easiest to use sites around. The bulletin board was fantastic... enough about that. The decision to change it was a boneheaded one for sure. I don't go to the new ICC site except to see if anyone is using the "communes" of interest. Today they remain next to dead.

I've been a member of ICC since the days when my membership card said "SBCCI" instead of ICC. I renewed my membership last week, and had to work hard to justify it. If my wife hadn't encouraged me to renew, I wouldn't have. Sad.


----------



## jpranch

BOCA & CABO. Oh how I wish...


----------



## texas transplant

JP,

You are preaching to the choir now man.   AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!!


----------



## globe trekker

Gordon,

Welcome to the "new & improved" Codes Forum!     

This is THE place to be and to learn & discuss.       I too, am a former

SBCCI active member!  I also used to be an active member in "the Cow".

What benefits are you receiving by being a member?   Just curious...

Anyhoo... I hope that you will come back often and join in the

discussions.    This is a lively place!   

.


----------



## Mech

I still have not responded yet.  Anyone who didn't get an invite can have mine for 5 dolla.  LOL!!!


----------



## fatboy

ICBO........the 97 U-codes......... sigh.


----------



## ewenme

Here! Here! Fatboy... The '97 UBC made sense and was not difficult to use [except for the index, of which I haven't found a good one in a code book, yet.]  Heavy sigh.


----------



## cda

I am still waiting for my membership package and free trip from this site!!!!!

Anyone know where the customer service number is ?????


----------



## FM William Burns

Cda,

It's in the mail.  The number is (214, 469, or 972) 555-1212


----------



## cda

Fianaly some response    Had to go to the Capt. to get it


----------



## RJJ

Dear cda: Customer service has informed me that you did not receive you new member package or your two free tickets to Baghdad. These were being offered for a limited time to the first 100 hundred members. I have further checked into this matter with the Post Master General who informs me that the postal system lost 3.5 billion dollars this year. As I probed deeper in to the problem I have discovered that besides the finical loss, the postal system has misplaced, damaged or can't find 3 trillion pieces of mail. On a lighter note,I can report that JP did receive his two jars of apple butter in exchange for a fine Wyoming hat.

It is unfortunate that the new member start up kit did not arrive. Since it was offered for a limited time we will be unable to fulfill your request. In a quest to please all members I forwarded this compliant to the supreme commander (Jeff) who's response was as follows. Since Mr. cda did not claim his kit or tickets in a timely manner and failed to register a complaint under rule 2675 A Subsection (b) (ii) (g)  I (Jeff) as supreme Captain have cashed in those tickets and use the proceeds for a fun filled family vacation.

"In an effort to please all members all the time we are truly sorry." If you have further problems with your member privileges please feel free to contact us via the site. In this manner we will remain fully transparent. The phone # reference by FM has been disconnected. Due to hard times and economic conditions we are not able to man the phones. We have increased band width to handle the increase in activity due to the termination of phone service. If for some reason you can not reach us, after you have posted your complaint please press the shift key on your computer and continue to pound the #3 key while holding down the shift key.

Thank you & better luck next time:

Customer Service


----------



## Mule

Now that's what I call customer service!!! The Cash Cow should take some lessons from the management of this organization.

One thing to remember.....If continuing to hold down the shift key and pounding the #3 key doesn't work.........in the search function of your computer type in "Format C" when prompted to answer a question...answer "Yes" You won't be bothered by the ICC web site ever again!


----------



## jpranch

View attachment 164


Now thats funny!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



View attachment 164


/monthly_2010_08/572953b82b955_ccfatandhappy..jpg.cb3578fa61a6dfec3f4da9a555dc70ec.jpg


----------



## cda

Story of my life


----------



## ccbuilding

The preceding chuckle is just one of the many reasons I love this BB. :lol:


----------



## jpranch

A little pay back?

View attachment 165






View attachment 165


/monthly_2010_08/REVENGE..jpg.cf9e7a0c2d2d103f708a614e7d2a477e.jpg


----------



## pwood

jpranch said:
			
		

> View attachment 384


 would that be an  ATM?


----------



## Mech

Looks like it meets the accessibility code, as far as reach height is concerned.


----------



## RJJ

pw: I believe that is the back side of a cow! It doesn't spit out cash it suck it in. I agree the reach range is correct.


----------



## jpranch

Ok I'm done now...Ok I'm done now...???

View attachment 167


View attachment 167


/monthly_2010_08/572953b833453_madcow..jpg.00dfd4261bbcef23b9c4f7aaf59be35a.jpg


----------



## fatboy

Oh JP.............you have to much imagination............ have a great weekend


----------



## FM William Burns

Now that's customer service

  

That's really funny!


----------



## peach

JP has too much time on his hands!  I (for one) was actually working today.


----------



## fatboy

Well.........I was going to say that.........but I was lurking instead of working myself........


----------



## TJacobs

Just submitted my survey.


----------



## RJJ

And the highlights are?


----------



## TJacobs

I basically congratulated them for ruining the BB and creating a web site I avoid like the plague.



			
				RJJ said:
			
		

> And the highlights are?


----------



## jpranch

View attachment 175




			
				TJacobs said:
			
		

> I basically congratulated them for ruining the BB and creating a web site I avoid like the plague.


 Now thats funny!
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 175


/monthly_2010_08/572953b84add6_DeadCow..jpg.63db4041ff8d44d8404627fd066b2ef8.jpg


----------



## globe trekker

Do they hear us now... ?  :mrgreen:

.


----------



## Alias

fatboy said:
			
		

> ICBO........the 97 U-codes......... sigh.


*sigh*

I agree, even if CA did rewrite the codes for CA.

Sue, not a fan the new 'communities of interest'


----------



## Alias

jp -

snickering, love the cows!

Sue, lost on the frontier


----------



## north star

** * **



> *TJacobs said: I basically congratulated them for ruining the BB and creating a web site I avoid like the plague.*


Yep, that's pretty funny!  

** * **


----------



## texasbo

Funny as hell; well done RJJ.



			
				RJJ said:
			
		

> Dear cda: Customer service has informed me that you did not receive you new member package or your two free tickets to Baghdad. These were being offered for a limited time to the first 100 hundred members. I have further checked into this matter with the Post Master General who informs me that the postal system lost 3.5 billion dollars this year. As I probed deeper in to the problem I have discovered that besides the finical loss, the postal system has misplaced, damaged or can't find 3 trillion pieces of mail. On a lighter note,I can report that JP did receive his two jars of apple butter in exchange for a fine Wyoming hat. It is unfortunate that the new member start up kit did not arrive. Since it was offered for a limited time we will be unable to fulfill your request. In a quest to please all members I forwarded this compliant to the supreme commander (Jeff) who's response was as follows. Since Mr. cda did not claim his kit or tickets in a timely manner and failed to register a complaint under rule 2675 A Subsection (b) (ii) (g)  I (Jeff) as supreme Captain have cashed in those tickets and use the proceeds for a fun filled family vacation.
> 
> "In an effort to please all members all the time we are truly sorry." If you have further problems with your member privileges please feel free to contact us via the site. In this manner we will remain fully transparent. The phone # reference by FM has been disconnected. Due to hard times and economic conditions we are not able to man the phones. We have increased band width to handle the increase in activity due to the termination of phone service. If for some reason you can not reach us, after you have posted your complaint please press the shift key on your computer and continue to pound the #3 key while holding down the shift key.
> 
> Thank you & better luck next time:
> 
> Customer Service


----------



## TJacobs

I really did use that language in one of the comment boxes. I also gave my name and e-mail in case they want to follow up.

Anybody want to wager on me getting a call?

:mrgreen: :lol:


----------



## agb4

I think they should call Little BO and let him run the their new forum??????????


----------



## Daddy-0-

I wonder if he is still banned.  hahahahahahahah


----------



## texasbo

"ICC Bulletin Board, sponsored by the fine folks at Tor-Egg Enterprises." The two deserve each other.


----------



## fatboy

LOL.........now that's funny, I don't care who you are..........


----------



## RJJ

YES! Funny! Now at the world conference that will have a toilet with netting that you can try! Put your quarter in and it will shake the c**p out of you! And the toilet won't become dislodged. Can't say how the wax seal will do!


----------



## mtlogcabin

ICC must be serious

*Are you still available for consideration as an attendee, Jeff ?*

You recently shared your name and email address saying you may be interested in participating in an event with ICC to help us create a better Discussion Board/Bulletin Board and online networking tools for ICCSafe.org. Below are specific details about the event. We have a limited number of spots available for participants, and are developing a list of potential invitees. Those that respond quickly will be given priority. 

*Confirm your willingness to participate in the Event listed below. *

What:The ICC Community Coalition Event – “Building a Better ICC Discussion Board”When:Thursday (September 9, 2010) 8:30 a.m. – 5:00 p.m.;

Friday (September 10, 2010) 8:30 a.m. – 1:00 p.m.

[arrivals Wednesday (9/8/10) and departures Friday afternoon/evening]Where:Denver, ColoradoCost to you:Minimal. ICC is willing to reimburse you for your flight, hotel and food during the meetings.

*Are you still able to participate?*

*YES* — If you are still willing to participate, please reply to this email by Friday, August 19th with a statement that you can still participate. We will add your name to our pool of potential invitees. 

*NO* — If you are no longer able to participate, don’t reply. Your name will be removed from the list. 

We believe that you are an important part of our discussion board. We appreciate your willingness to help! 

Thank you,


----------



## Uncle Bob

MLC,

Yes, I got mine; although I almost deleted it before reading. Instead of ICC; it shows from "Michael Armstrong". I think everyone will get an invitation; knowing full well that the vast majority cannot or won't attend. If I knew the meeting would be webcast; I'd go.

I don't like to fly because of the hassle; and, I doubt they would reimberse me for driving.

ps. If anyone ever sends me an e-mail; be sure to identify the subject. I usually automatically delete any emails I get that I don't immediately recognize.

Too much spam mail with virus'. 

Uncle Bob


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## fatboy

So..........are you going?


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## fatboy

I didn't get one....probably because I'm only 60 miles away.


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## Uncle Bob

Fatboy,

Not really sure I'm invited. I am stickler for reading the fine print; "We will add your name to our pool of *potential invitees*."

I would enjoy driving to Colorado; I have made the trip several times, and have lived in Colorado Springs (found a dead body in Cripple Creek) when I was much younger.

I'll check the yes box and see what happens; it's like a fellow I met; who came to Austin, Texas with the promise of a job with the Austin news paper. When he arrived for work they said they changed their mind and hired someone else. He was stuck without a job. That's about my luck.

Uncle Bob


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## MarkRandall

I got the email this morning as well. I was expecting a phone conference to discuss the issue, not an all expenses paid trip. No wonder the ICC see the a bulletin board as an expensive venture. I'm not working those days, so I could actually go without any rearranging of my schedule, but I think NOT.


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## mjesse

Got my (potential) invite too.

I will accept an all expenses paid trip to Colorado.

I'll see what happens with my reply.


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## mjesse

Got my (potential) invite too.

I will accept an all expenses paid trip to Colorado.

I'll see what happens with my reply.


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## RickAstoria

I received that message. I won't be able to held to Denver, CO unless they pay me up front.

I won't reply until after Aug. 19th. You guys can carry along the info given such as my suggestions and others. I believe that they should just take note of what I said. If they allowed an online gathering (a chatroom - so to speak) where we can talk then yes. I would be able to attend.


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## Daddy-0-

Got mine too. I wish my brother still lived in Denver. Darn. I will also accept a free vacation if offered. Got to check with the boss first though.


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## TJacobs

My mom and brother live in Littleton, so I'm seriously thinking of going.  I got the email today; I have to confirm by tomorrow!

*Join us, Thomas?*

You recently replied to our email that you were willing to participate in this event, which is September 9 and 10 in Denver, Colorado. We hope you can join us! We believe the Discussion Boards on ICCSafe.org can be a valuable tool to our customers and we want you to help us achieve this.

*To confirm your attendance, please call 757.961.4139 x222 or email **Valerie.Mach@webteks.com* *by Tuesday (8/24) 5:00 pm EST**. *

_*You Are Invited!*_

What:

The ICC Community Coalition Event – “Building a Better ICC Discussion Board”

When:

Thursday (September 9, 2010) 8:30 a.m. – 5:00 p.m.;

Friday (September 10, 2010) 8:30 a.m. – 1:00 p.m.

[arrivals Wednesday (9/8/10) and departures Friday afternoon/evening]

Where:

Courtyard Marriott Airport in Denver, Colorado (airport shuttle provided)

Cost to you:

Minimal. ICC will reimburse you for your flight or driving mileage expense and will provide a hotel room and meals during the meetings.

General Agenda:


Introductions with ICC Senior Management 

Discuss Customer Feedback to date and solicit more detail

Discuss proposed changes 

Demonstrate a new platform/design and collaborate on improvements

Discuss ideas for Usage Policy 

We appreciate your willingness to help and realize the value of your involvement!

Thank you,






Michael Armstrong

SVP, Membership and Outreach Services


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## Gene Boecker

I have a conflict that day - need to be in another city in another state at the same time.

Rats!


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## vegas paul

Well, I got my invitation via phone call to book my flight to Denver.  I guess I am no longer one of the *potential* invitees!  Anyone going?  I need to check my schedule to see if I can get away.


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## TJacobs

Work boss said OK.  Home boss has not responded.  Have to find flight...


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## mjesse

Just got my phone call too.

In the same boat as TJ regarding the "real" boss!

ICC is calling back tomorrow for my final answer. Checking airfare now...


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## Mule

Got mine, work boss says okay, home boss says okay.

I'm waiting for some more details from ICC before I book a flight. Probably book it tomorrow or Wednesday.

In fact she's going with me. She doen't work outside of the house so she's free....notice how I stated that? Been married 37 years so.........


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## Uncle Bob

VEGAS PAUL said on 07/27/2010;

"Here's the strategy... answer all the survey questions with as complimentary a tone as you can, towards the "Communities of Interest". Be as positive and courteous as you can, supporting their effort to improve the BB. Then you will be selected as one of the select few who will be invited to participate in the meeting... then tell them what you really think!"

And it worked.  

Today; VEGAS PAUL said;

"Well, I got my invitation via phone call to book my flight to Denver. I guess I am no longer one of the *potential* invitees! Anyone going? I need to check my schedule to see if I can get away."

It's after 5 PM in Washington at ICC Headquarters; so ya'll must have been toward the end of the list..

If ya'll who are going; are taking this thing seriously, we should at least give it our best. Now, we need to open a thread for serious ideas ONLY;  for you'se guys to take to the meeting.

ps. I hope that our old friend the ICC WEBMASTER was invited.

Ya'll make us proud,

Uncle Bob


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## RJJ

I did not get one! Shows I am still on the you know what list! Besides I have to much to say!


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## FM William Burns

I don't know if I ever got an invite since I delet so much email from the ICC before opening.........Oh well I don't need anymore FOIA's for participating in my right in "free speech" and opinion's besides, I'm running out of Alias' anyway........for those going, safe travel


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## jpranch

View attachment 405

	

		
			
		

		
	
Been out of town the past week & 1/2. Got an invitation from icc. Well sob... Will wonders ever cease? Look ladies & gents, if, if I have one claim to fame you have to admit I coined the term international cas cow. And they picked me???

View attachment 179


View attachment 179


/monthly_2010_08/572953b859a88_madcow..jpg.db64499ab14518a7488c47abef92c051.jpg


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## jar546

FYI this is the most viewed thread to date


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## texasbo

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> ps. I hope that our old friend the ICC WEBMASTER was invited.


I hope that anyone and everyone associated in any way with the ICC website was fired, and I'm not saying that to throw out a sensational statement just to get attention; I really mean it. I also believe ICC is too broken to fix.

Strangely, despite my usual understated responses, I didn't get an invitation.


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## pwood

texasbo said:
			
		

> I hope that anyone and everyone associated in any way with the ICC website was fired, and I'm not saying that to throw out a sensational statement just to get attention; I really mean it. I also believe ICC is too broken to fix. Strangely, despite my usual understated responses, I didn't get an invitation.


sbo,

  i hear ya! brown nosing didn"t get me anywhere either. i should have taken the path JP blazed and i too would have been wined and dined by the big green machine.:mrgreen:


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## MarkRandall

texasbo said:
			
		

> I hope that anyone and everyone associated in any way with the ICC website was fired


IMHO, this would then include the entire board of ICC. When it closed down, I emailed board members that I thought it was a big mistake to close it to non-members. I got some nice replies, but all in all, the attitude was this is the way it's going to be and that I needed join if I wanted to continue participating. Luckily for me, when they opened the archives to all, I found the links to this site. Otherwise I never would have found you guys as I evidently didn't log in for a few days around the time the announced the changes.


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## Mech

I still have not sent in my questionairre.  I wonder if it's too late.

To those who go: Be careful; this may be a trap to silence you! When you enter the hotel, conference room, etc., let the ICC know that you have a letter drafted and ready to be sent to the press unless you check in with your spouse, employer, dog, etc. every two hours.  And no accepting bribes!!!  :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## texasbo

MarkRandall said:
			
		

> IMHO, this would then include the entire board of ICC.


If the shoe fits...


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## Uncle Bob

Well, there has been a wrench thrown into the meeting in Denver. I just received an e-mail that I've been officially invited to attend. I have to let them know by wed (tommorrow).

I could drive up I-35, catch I-70 in Kansas; and be there in 10 hours.

Crap, I don't drink,

Uncle Bob


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## texasbo

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> Crap, I don't drink,Uncle Bob


You don't drink? How do you throw up in the morning?


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## Uncle Bob

texasbo said:
			
		

> You don't drink? How do you throw up in the morning?


*I turn on my computer and read your posts.*

Sorry, too tempting, don't mean it; just couldn't resist.

Uncle Bob


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## RJJ

UB: If you see me hitch hiking on I-70 Please! Please stop and pick me up. I didn't get an invite but am willing to crash the party.


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## TJacobs

You HAVE to go UB...it's your duty...Remember the Alamo...Sink the Bismarck...Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead...One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind...etc.

I'll buy you a club soda...



			
				Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> Well, there has been a wrench thrown into the meeting in Denver. I just received an e-mail that I've been officially invited to attend. I have to let them know by wed (tommorrow).I could drive up I-35, catch I-70 in Kansas; and be there in 10 hours.
> 
> Crap, I don't drink,
> 
> Uncle Bob


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## TJacobs

UB, don't forget to pick up RJJ on your way!



			
				TJacobs said:
			
		

> You HAVE to go UB...it's your duty...Remember the Alamo...Sink the Bismarck...Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead...One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind...etc.I'll buy you a club soda...


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## fatboy

"I didn't get an invite but am willing to crash the party. "

Me too, only an hour away for me though!


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## Mule

I hope all of those that didn't get an invite that are close enough will show up for a Wednesday afternoon get together to share your opinions before the meeting the next AM.

I am not looking at this as an attack session on ICC but a chance to make the ICC BB better. There are so many people out there that could benefit from the ICC BB that are not aware of this forum and I hope we can all go into this as professionals.

Remember in a way we will be representing this forum and how we conduct ourselves could reflect on this forum.

Anything we can do to inform the public about the codes and the reason behind our profession is a win for all of us, even if that means helping another organization.

This is just my opinion.


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## fatboy

Didn't want to hijack the official invitee list thread, but where y'all staying?

Same place, or all over Denver?

Where's the meeting at?


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## Mule

Court Yard Marriot by the airport.

The meeting is supposed to be at that hotel from what I understand.


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## Uncle Bob

Fatboy,

I think I posted this; probably in the wrong place. Please join us. We'll get you in. This is bringing out the kid in me; when we used to sneak in the drive-in movies.

Here is the information;

What:The ICC Community Coalition Event – “Building a Better ICC Discussion Board”

When:Thursday (September 9, 2010) 8:30 a.m. – 5:00 p.m.;

Friday (September 10, 2010) 8:30 a.m. – 1:00 p.m.

[arrivals Wednesday (9/8/10) and departures Friday afternoon/evening]

Where:Courtyard Marriott Airport in Denver, Colorado (airport shuttle provided)

We will all have rooms at the Courtyard and the meeting will be there; just got off the phone; after confirming my reservation.

Would everyone who is comming for sure; please let us know on the Confirmation thread;

http://www.inspectpa.com/phpbb/showthread.php?2516-List-of-Members-going-to-Denver

If anyone needs a ride there is plenty of room in the back of my pick-up truck.

RJJ, go to Salina, Kansas and park in the Building Officials space at city hall. I'll pick you up there.  

See you there,

Uncle Bob


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## Daddy-0-

I have not heard back so I guess they don't like me. BOOOHOOOHOOOHOOO. Oh well. The county was gonna let me call it "paid training " too so I would not have to take vacation. I wonder if they will actually reimburse people for all of their expenses. This late in the game a plane ticket has got to be a fortune.


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## beach

Hey when you guys go, can you ask ICC if we can get CEU's for participating in this bulletin board? I learn a lot more here than paying hundreds of dollars for an ICC seminar...........


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## Uncle Bob

Daddy-O,

" I wonder if they will actually reimburse people for all of their expenses."

I believe they will pay us back for travel; it's how much; that makes me a little nervous. I plan on driving and was told that they wouldn't pay me not more than a round trip airline ticket costs. I checked and found $165.00 for economy (non-refundable) and $462.00 (refundable). Also, the trip back is by "airbus"; which I believe is comparable to goose back; because the wings flap.

If they use the $165.00 I will lose money because I'll drive (gas, $240.00).

They are paying for the room; and, free seminar meals (you know what they are like); which I never eat; and Marriot has those free breakfasts that suck. Meals should run me about $240.00 ($60.00 per day)

The joke would be on us, if they paid in credit at the ICC store.  

Oh, well; it's an adventure; and for a good cause - "Cause I want to go".

Oh, and I'll have to buy a new hat.  

Not counting the hat; this "free" trip will probably cost me about $600.00.

We'll have a good time; and get to meet each other; and, hopefully do something good.

Uncle Bob


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## jpranch

pwood said:
			
		

> sbo,i hear ya! brown nosing didn"t get me anywhere either. i should have taken the path JP blazed and i too would have been wined and dined by the big green machine.:mrgreen:


pwood, you bet. I'm craping in tall cotton! LOL. Don't forget I'm the one on the old BB that wanted to kick Adolf in the nad's. Matter of fact I told him that in Baltimore last year. Ask rjj. He was there. I think I'm too late to make Denver as I was gone all last week and part of this week?  I'll know more tomorrow. Took the module-1 technology exam down in Denver yesterday. I guess that I'm now a 1/2 building official?


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## fatboy

Congrats on passing the Tech module JP!

Why did you go all the way to Denver? We have one here that would have saved you an hour drive each way, or did you fly in?


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## jpranch

Thanks fatboy. Just did the conformation for Denver for next month. Really looking forward to meeting everybody.


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## fatboy

$189 a night at the Courtyard is a bit steep for me.......it's about a 70 minute drive from my house to the hotel, probably will just commute.


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## Uncle Bob

JP,

" Just did the conformation for Denver for next month. Really looking forward to meeting everybody."

Did you confirm with Valerie at ICC?

Uncle Bob


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## pwood

i'm curious if anyone from california has been invited to this lovefest?


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## conarb

Not me, I don't think they want us there.


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## TJacobs

My round-trip air fare was only 219.00.  When I called Valerie she was comparing that to around 300.00 so I'm good.


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## Mule

My round trip was $308. That was the best I could get. The flight up there was about $50 less than the trip back.


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## jpranch

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> JP," Just did the conformation for Denver for next month. Really looking forward to meeting everybody."
> 
> Did you confirm with Valerie at ICC?
> 
> Uncle Bob


UB, Sure did. Just book a flight. Round trip $449.00. I swear, they rape us up here.


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## fatboy

$449? WOW! You do get it bad. Is that out of Gillette, or Rapid City Regional?


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## TJacobs

Probably have a lot more volume and fuller (more full?) planes out of Chi-town. Using Frontier both ways.

Maybe they found out I was a Cubs fan and gave me the mercy fare...:-?


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## jpranch

Ya, Thats out of Gillette. There is only one carrier and only one price!


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## RJJ

Well I am glad someone will benefit from my membership money! Just remember when you go to sleep to say your prayers and give a special thanks for RJJ contribution to your stay & restful sleep.


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