# Horizontal Exit Refuge Area



## Mech (Mar 12, 2020)

2015 IBC

I am looking at a Horizontal Exit from building A to building B, but not building B to building A.  Building B has sufficient exits.

1022.4 Capacity of refuge area.    . . . each such refuge area shall be adequate to accommodate the original occupant load of the refuge area plus the occupant load anticipated from the adjoining compartment. . . .

Does the refuge area in building B really need to accommodate the original occupant load of this building as it has more than sufficient egress doors, widths, etc?

What code section requires a refuge area for the occupants of building B?  It's getting late for me so I may not be thinking straight.

Does the refuge area need to be one dedicated space or can it be a multitude of spaces of varying sizes in building B to serve the occupant load, as long as it is not locked spaces, stairwells, corridors, toilet rooms, closets, mechanical rooms?

Thanks.


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## cda (Mar 12, 2020)

Oh no not horizontal exits again

Read through this dissertation on horizontal exits and see if you still have a question 


http://www.specsandcodes.com/articles/code_corner/The Code Corner No. 24 - Horizontal Exits.pdf


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## cda (Mar 12, 2020)

https://www.jensenhughes.com/insights/can-horizontal-exits-solve-your-egress-challenges


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## cda (Mar 13, 2020)

One more::

https://books.google.com/books?id=B...v=onepage&q=horizontal exit explained&f=false


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## cda (Mar 13, 2020)

OK yes it was late, 

Not my area, but::

"""Does the refuge area in building B really need to accommodate the original occupant load of this building as it has more than sufficient egress doors, widths, etc?""""""

If area B has sufficient area to accommodate building A, you are good to go.


Horizontal exits are used for numerous reasons, to include hospitals, which is where you would more than likely have to defend people in place, once you move them.


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## Mech (Mar 13, 2020)

Thanks for the links.

This is an industrial facility and the original exit to the exterior is being replaced by a horizontal exit through a fire wall.


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## cda (Mar 13, 2020)

Mech said:


> Thanks for the links.
> 
> This is an industrial facility and the original exit to the exterior is being replaced by a horizontal exit through a fire wall.




HUH?

Are they adding to the building?


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## cda (Mar 13, 2020)

Post simple floor plan?


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## Mech (Mar 13, 2020)

Yup.  Building Addition.


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## cda (Mar 13, 2020)

Mech said:


> Yup.  Building Addition.




Ok my Mantra:::

A two hour wall does not make a horizontal exit.


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## RLGA (Mar 13, 2020)

Mech said:


> 2015 IBC
> 
> I am looking at a Horizontal Exit from building A to building B, but not building B to building A.  Building B has sufficient exits.
> 
> ...


If you're egressing from Building A to Building B, then Building B is the refuge area and must accommodate the occupant load of Building B (by story) plus the occupant load from Building A (by story), which is limited to the capacity of the door in the horizontal exit or the occupant load of the adjacent story in Building A, whichever is smaller. This means that the floor area within the Building B story that is available to all occupants must be equal to or greater than the occupant loads from Building A and B times 3 sq. ft. per occupant. The refuge area can be any combination of spaces as long as the occupants have access to those spaces 24/7. For example, corridors, lobbies, restrooms, or any room that cannot be locked can be considered part of the refuge area. Also, the occupant load of Building A does not need to be included in the occupant load of Building B when determining the egress width for Building B.

There is no requirement that says a horizontal exit is required to work in both directions. The doors in a horizontal exit must swing in the direction of egress travel when the occupant load served by the door is 50 or more, so you would only need the door to swing in one direction since you are egressing in only one direction, which simplifies things. Also, don't put an exit sign over the door on the Building B side, since it would not be a legal egress path.


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## Chuck94527 (May 4, 2020)

RLGA said:


> If you're egressing from Building A to Building B, then Building B is the refuge area and must accommodate the occupant load of Building B (by story) plus the occupant load from Building A (by story), which is limited to the capacity of the door in the horizontal exit or the occupant load of the adjacent story in Building A, whichever is smaller. This means that the floor area within the Building B story that is available to all occupants must be equal to or greater than the occupant loads from Building A and B times 3 sq. ft. per occupant. The refuge area can be any combination of spaces as long as the occupants have access to those spaces 24/7. For example, corridors, lobbies, restrooms, or any room that cannot be locked can be considered part of the refuge area. Also, the occupant load of Building A does not need to be included in the occupant load of Building B when determining the egress width for Building B.
> 
> There is no requirement that says a horizontal exit is required to work in both directions. The doors in a horizontal exit must swing in the direction of egress travel when the occupant load served by the door is 50 or more, so you would only need the door to swing in one direction since you are egressing in only one direction, which simplifies things. Also, don't put an exit sign over the door on the Building B side, since it would not be a legal egress path.




I have a similar situation and came across this post. Is there somewhere that it is stated that the refuge area can include corridors or is it just implied that corridors can be used? Are there any restrictions on using the corridors (i.e. leave a certain width clear, etc.)? I can't seem to find this clearly defined anywhere.


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## cda (May 4, 2020)

Chuck94527 said:


> I have a similar situation and came across this post. Is there somewhere that it is stated that the refuge area can include corridors or is it just implied that corridors can be used? Are there any restrictions on using the corridors (i.e. leave a certain width clear, etc.)? I can't seem to find this clearly defined anywhere.




Welcome,,,

Is this a general question,,, Or do you have a real life problem??

If real life, what type of occupancy


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## cda (May 4, 2020)

http://www.specsandcodes.com/articles/code_corner/The Code Corner No. 24 - Horizontal Exits.pdf


I am thinking corridors would not be included. 

For most occupancy groups, the capacity is calculated at 3 sq. ft. peroccupant, excluding stairways, courts, elevators, and other shafts.Additionally, areas that wouldnormally be locked from building occupants must also be excluded from the area available for use as arefuge area.


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## RLGA (May 4, 2020)

Section 1026.4 (2018 IBC) states that the refuge area shall be for "the same tenant or public area." Corridors are public areas unless portions of the corridor have restricted access. The horizontal exit must lead to an exit, so if the door discharges into a corridor, then that corridor must lead to an exit and can be used as the "public area" and be included as part of the refuge area.


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## cda (May 4, 2020)

“continuous and unobstructed way of egress travel from any point in a building or facility that provides an accessible route to an area of refuge, a horizontal exit or a public way.”



*[BE] *AREA OF REFUGE. An area where persons unable to use stairways can remain temporarily to await instructions or assistance during emergency evacuation.


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## Chuck94527 (May 4, 2020)

cda said:


> Welcome,,,
> 
> Is this a general question,,, Or do you have a real life problem??
> 
> If real life, what type of occupancy



Thanks for the quick reply. Real life, B occupancy. 

We are using horizontal separation to achieve an increased occupant load beyond what our two staircases will allow for. This is a co-working office space so most rooms are locked, leaving corridors and small lounge areas as the bulk of the space that can be accessed 24/7 as occupants move from one side of the horizontal separation to the other. I am trying to figure out whether I can use the corridors as part of the refuge area because if I cannot we may need to increase the size of lounges or other areas that are unlocked to meet the 3 sf/occupant requirement.


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## cda (May 4, 2020)

Chuck94527 said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. Real life, B occupancy.
> 
> We are using horizontal separation to achieve an increased occupant load beyond what our two staircases will allow for. This is a co-working office space so most rooms are locked, leaving corridors and small lounge areas as the bulk of the space that can be accessed 24/7 as occupants move from one side of the horizontal separation to the other. I am trying to figure out whether I can use the corridors as part of the refuge area because if I cannot we may need to increase the size of lounges or other areas that are unlocked to meet the 3 sf/occupant requirement.




Why do they need and area of refuge???                     Just exit the building


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## Chuck94527 (May 4, 2020)

cda said:


> Why do they need and area of refuge???                     Just exit the building



Not an area of refuge. I am referring to a refuge area, which I believe to be different and is required as part of a horizontal separation. 2015 (or 2018) IBC 1024.6.1. This is the section that RLGA is quoting in the response to me.


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## classicT (May 4, 2020)

cda said:


> Why do they need and area of refuge???                     Just exit the building


Because it is  a horizontal exit.

*1026.4 Refuge Area*
The refuge area of a _horizontal exit _shall be a space occupied by the same tenant or a public area and each such refuge area shall be adequate to accommodate the original _occupant load _of the refuge area plus the _occupant load _anticipated from the adjoining compartment. The anticipated _occupant load _from the adjoining compartment shall be based on the capacity of the _horizontal exit doors _entering the refuge area.

*1026.4.1 Capacity*
The capacity of the refuge area shall be computed based on a _net floor area _allowance of 3 square feet (0.2787 m2) for each occupant to be accommodated therein.
*Exceptions:* The _net floor area _allowable per occupant shall be as follows for the indicated occupancies:​
Six square feet (0.6 m2) per occupant for occupancies in Group I-3.
Fifteen square feet (1.4 m2) per occupant for ambulatory occupancies in Group I-2.
Thirty square feet (2.8 m2) per occupant for nonambulatory occupancies in Group I-2.


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## RLGA (May 4, 2020)

cda said:


> “continuous and unobstructed way of egress travel from any point in a building or facility that provides an accessible route to an area of refuge, a horizontal exit or a public way.”
> 
> 
> 
> *[BE] *AREA OF REFUGE. An area where persons unable to use stairways can remain temporarily to await instructions or assistance during emergency evacuation.


You're confusing an "Area of Refuge" with the horizontal exit's "refuge area." These are two completely different things.


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## cda (May 4, 2020)

RLGA said:


> You're confusing an "Area of Refuge" with the horizontal exit's "refuge area." These are two completely different things.




Sorry

All the codes sound alike after awhile


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## ADAguy (May 6, 2020)

Mech said:


> Yup.  Building Addition.


What was the original purpose of the fire wall?


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## Mech (May 6, 2020)

ADAguy said:


> What was the original purpose of the fire wall?



The fire wall is to create a separate building.  The existing building is too large for an addition.


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## cda (May 6, 2020)

Mech said:


> The fire wall is to create a separate building.  The existing building is too large for an addition.




Just because a two hour wall is in place,,,,

Does not always mean it is a horizontal exit


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## Mech (May 6, 2020)

I would need to review the requirements for a horizontal exit and what is on the plans, but I do know that the wall is designed as a three hour rated fire wall, not a two hour fire wall, and that a certain floor area size is designated as a refuge area for those exiting INTO the proposed building.


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## cda (May 6, 2020)

Mech said:


> I would need to review the requirements for a horizontal exit and what is on the plans, but I do know that the wall is designed as a three hour rated fire wall, not a two hour fire wall, and that a certain floor area size is designated as a refuge area for those exiting INTO the proposed building.




Than you must have a horizontal exit.

In a B occupancy,

Still seems like the people would keep walking, to the exits.


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## Mech (May 6, 2020)

cda: Be careful.  ADAguy had a question about the original post, which I started.  I have F / S use groups.

chuck94527 asked a question about a completely different project, with a B use group.


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## steveray (Jun 3, 2020)

Bringing this back up for some clarity and I didn't find another thread that addressed it.....CDA is adamant about the 2hr wall not necessarily being an HE....So, a firewall separating 2 buildings (with doors through) is only an HE if you need one? 

Scenario: Single exit room egresses through the firewall into a different building...HE? Or no if they can still meet travel distance CPET from there?


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## cda (Jun 3, 2020)

steveray said:


> Bringing this back up for some clarity and I didn't find another thread that addressed it.....CDA is adamant about the 2hr wall not necessarily being an HE....So, a firewall separating 2 buildings (with doors through) is only an HE if you need one?
> 
> Scenario: Single exit room egresses through the firewall into a different building...HE? Or no if they can still meet travel distance CPET from there?




Are you questioning my one months code experience???

Thank about it, If for whatever reason you put a two hour wall in a building, and than go down twenty feet and install another two hour wall,,,,

Does that make both of them horizontal exits???


And think of the various reasons two hour walls are installed.

Anyway, I have been questioned all day today, so why not,,,, I question myself


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## Mech (Jun 3, 2020)

steveray said:


> Scenario: Single exit room egresses through the firewall into a different building...HE? Or no if they can still meet travel distance CPET from there?



This following does not address the question, but the scenario may not meet code.

2015 IBC
Section 1026 - " . . . A horizontal exit shall not serve as the only exit from a portion of the building . . ."


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## Mech (Jun 3, 2020)

steveray - which post from cda are you referencing?  In the original post, a 3 hour fire wall was required meaning I had a 3 hour separation creating the horizontal exit.  A 2 hour wall would not have sufficed for the given occupancies.


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## steveray (Jun 3, 2020)

Mech said:


> This following does not address the question, but the scenario may not meet code.
> 
> 2015 IBC
> Section 1026 - " . . . A horizontal exit shall not serve as the only exit from a portion of the building . . ."



That is the question and the CDA post to which I was referring...Is a FW always a HE or only when you need it to be?



cda said:


> Ok my Mantra:::
> 
> A two hour wall does not make a horizontal exit.


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## Mech (Jun 5, 2020)

Preface: I have zero formal training, the closest I get is reading this forum.  I reserve the right to be wrong and change my opinion once it has been invalidated.

I will concur with cda in that a 2 hour fire wall does not necessarily make a horizontal exit.

The requirements for Horizontal Exits must also be met.  If the refuge area is not large enough to accommodate all the people in the refuge area as well as the people coming through the door in the FW, then a horizontal exit does not exist.  Opening Protectives (Table 716.5) only lists 3 hour and 4 hour rated Horizontal Exits in Fire Walls.  The table does not list a two hour rated HE in FWs. Perhaps a 2 hour fire wall can never make a horizontal exit.  Also, looking at the 3 and 4 hour rated fire walls vs 3 and 4 hour rated HE in FWs, the opening fire protection assembly requirements are not exactly the same.  The door vision panel size and fire-rated glazing marking door vision panel are slightly different.  I have not investigated the differences yet to see which is more stringent.  A door vision panel is limited to 100 sq. in. in HEs in a FW while a vision panel in a FW is restricted to the maximum size tested to ASTM E119 in accordance with section 706.2.  (Door vision panels in a FW could theoretically exceed the 100 sq.in. maximum allowed in HEs.)

IMO, if a design happens to create the correct Fire Wall conditions and meets all the Horizontal Exit requirements, an HE still does not exist without an Exit sign and proper Egress lighting.

Feel free to question or correct me.

steveray - Did I address the question or did miss it again?
​


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## cda (Jun 5, 2020)

Mech said:


> Preface: I have zero formal training, the closest I get is reading this forum.  I reserve the right to be wrong and change my opinion once it has been invalidated.
> 
> I will concur with cda in that a 2 hour fire wall does not necessarily make a horizontal exit.
> 
> ...





As in the great words of Fred Gwyne::::::


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## steveray (Jun 5, 2020)

Mech, thanks for the input and maybe you have found an un-addressed issue in the IBC...There are obviously 2hr FWs allowed....As also referenced in 1026.2...


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## cda (Jun 5, 2020)

steveray said:


> Mech, thanks for the input and maybe you have found an un-addressed issue in the IBC...There are obviously 2hr FWs allowed....As also referenced in 1026.2...



What is the unaddressed issue?


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## Mech (Jun 5, 2020)

2015 IBC Opening Protectives (Table 716.5) only lists 3 hour and 4 hour rated Horizontal Exits in Fire Walls. The table does not list a two hour rated HE in FWs.


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## cda (Jun 5, 2020)

Mech said:


> 2015 IBC Opening Protectives (Table 716.5) only lists 3 hour and 4 hour rated Horizontal Exits in Fire Walls. The table does not list a two hour rated HE in FWs.




Fall back to one of the other 2 hour wall requirements, seems like the answer? in table 716.5


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## steveray (Jun 5, 2020)

Mech said:


> Opening Protectives (Table 716.5) only lists 3 hour and 4 hour rated Horizontal Exits in Fire Walls. The table does not list a two hour rated HE in FWs. Perhaps a 2 hour fire wall can never make a horizontal exit. Also, looking at the 3 and 4 hour rated fire walls vs 3 and 4 hour rated HE in FWs, the opening fire protection assembly requirements are not exactly the same.


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