# residential kitchen equipment used for online products



## meternerd (Dec 12, 2017)

A friend wants to use my "donated" double oven, propane cook top and dishwasher in a kitchen that will be producing items to be sold online and in "farmer's markets".  Do the appliances need to conform to a commercial installation or can we just use the residential code requirements.  Located in northern Idaho.


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## cda (Dec 12, 2017)

meternerd said:


> A friend wants to use my "donated" double oven, propane cook top and dishwasher in a kitchen that will be producing items to be sold online and in "farmer's markets".  Do the appliances need to conform to a commercial installation or can we just use the residential code requirements.  Located in northern Idaho.




Use in a house kitchen

Or commercial kitchen

Plus using propane inside?? Where will the propane supply be?


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## JBI (Dec 12, 2017)

cda said:


> Plus using propane inside?? Where will the propane supply be?



Outdoors, in a tank... like millions of households and businesses that do not have natural gas available.


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## cda (Dec 12, 2017)

JBI said:


> Outdoors, in a tank... like millions of households and businesses that do not have natural gas available.



Have to ask, seen a lot of things


So in


Use in a house kitchen

Or commercial kitchen??


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## Builder Bob (Dec 12, 2017)

If an outdoor kitchen, it will be up to the local health department as codes tend to deal with buildings and items located inside structures.


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## steveray (Dec 13, 2017)

Agree with BB....Here the health department certifies, inspects, and licenses "commercial kitchens"...To make sure Joey homeowner is not poisoning the public.


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## SAT (Dec 13, 2017)

Is this a “cottage food operation” in a person’s home? Where food like cakes, brownies, breads, pies and cookies are prepared.  Check State and local laws, some states like Texas has “cottage food operation” laws no health inspection is required and kitchen equipment is residential appliance typically.  If you install commercial appliance check manufacture installation requirements and the AHJ may require hood etc.


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## mark handler (Dec 13, 2017)

*Buyer Beware*
A Large Outbreak of Salmonellosis Associated with Sandwiches Contaminated with Multiple Bacterial Pathogens Purchased via an Online Shopping Service
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4003462/
Food sold over the internet is an emerging business that also presents a concern with regard to food safety. A nationwide foodborne disease outbreak associated with sandwiches purchased from an online shop...


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## Yikes (Dec 13, 2017)

With food sold over the internet, assuming for the moment the food is prepared inside the United states and sold to customers inside the US (i.e. no customs laws):
Licensing occurs via the health department that has jurisdiction in the area where the food is prepared.  For example, gourmet sandwiches for sale/shipping all across the US, made by someone in their home kitchen in Los Angeles County, would need a class B food prep/sales license from LA County Health Department; and LA County Health would conduct an in-home inspection in the course of granting the license.

On the other hand, there is probably some other place in another state in the wild west that would not have any health department requirements for a home-based sandwich business, and those sandwiches would be allowed to ship into LA county (or anywhere else in the US) without restriction.


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## Yikes (Dec 13, 2017)

P.S. Let me further qualify: when I said above "ship into LA County without restriction", I meant without restriction by the local health department in the area where the sandwich is delivered.
Here in California, we have agricultural inspectors at highway entrances into the state that keep out food that may contain invasive insects that could be harmful to crops (such as fruit flies).  But they don't inspect for health purposes.


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## SAT (Dec 13, 2017)

I forgot to add in Texas food produced at a cottage food production operation cannot be sold through the internet, by mail order or at wholesale.  It can be sold in farmers’ market, fairs, stands, festivals or events.

Per Texas Department of Health foods sold by a cottage food production operation must be packaged and labeled.  The label must include the following information:

The name and address of the cottage food production operation;
The common or usual name of the product, if a food is made with a major food allergen, such as eggs, nuts, soy, peanuts, milk or wheat that ingredient must be listed on the label; and
A statement: _“This food is made in a home kitchen and is not inspected by the Department of State Health Services or a local health department."_
The labels must be legible.


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## meternerd (Dec 13, 2017)

Sorry about the delay in reply.....it is going to be a small kitchen setup in the garage of the residence.  Basically selling "apple cider syrup" in bottles at the local farmer's market and also filling online orders.  It may evolve into a wholesale business, but that's just a hope.  There may also be pies, etc. to fill phone orders and sales at the same farmer's market.  Right now, the cooking is done in the family kitchen, but they are pressed for room.  Rural Idaho 20 miles from any sizable towns.  They asked me to help them install the equipment I gave them after a remodel of my own kitchen.  I'm not licensed in idaho, but am not being paid for helping, so I don't think I need to be.  We will get a permit.


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## cda (Dec 13, 2017)

meternerd said:


> Sorry about the delay in reply.....it is going to be a small kitchen setup in the garage of the residence.  Basically selling "apple cider syrup" in bottles at the local farmer's market and also filling online orders.  It may evolve into a wholesale business, but that's just a hope.  There may also be pies, etc. to fill phone orders and sales at the same farmer's market.  Right now, the cooking is done in the family kitchen, but they are pressed for room.  Rural Idaho 20 miles from any sizable towns.  They asked me to help them install the equipment I gave them after a remodel of my own kitchen.  I'm not licensed in idaho, but am not being paid for helping, so I don't think I need to be.  We will get a permit.




Is there a propane or natural gas water heater in the garage??


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## cda (Dec 13, 2017)

As to your original question, if this is a “hobby” I am thinking since it is in the person’s house they can almost do/ use what they want.

Not sure how they will get all that equipment set up and plumbed ??


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 13, 2017)

Residential dishwasher may not produce the temperatures required by the health department to properly sanitize the dishes
The code does not prohibit residential appliances for commercial cooking, in fact it even state residential appliances used for commercial cooking shall have the correct type of hood installed over it.
507.2.3 Domestic cooking appliances used for commercial purposes.
Domestic cooking appliances utilized for commercial purposes shall be provided with Type I or Type II hoods as required for the type of appliances and processes in accordance with Sections 507.2, 507.2.1 and 507.2.2.

507.2.1 Type I hoods.
Type I hoods shall be installed where cooking appliances produce grease or smoke as a result of the cooking process. Type I hoods shall be installed over medium-duty, heavy-duty and extra-heavy-duty cooking appliances. Type I hoods shall be installed over light-duty cooking appliances that produce grease or smoke.


APPLIANCE TYPE.

High-heat appliance. Any appliance in which the products of combustion at the point of entrance to the flue under normal operating conditions have a temperature greater than 2,000ºF (1093ºC).

Low-heat appliance (residential appliance). Any appliance in which the products of combustion at the point of entrance to the flue under normal operating conditions have a temperature of 1,000ºF (538ºC) or less.

Medium-heat appliance. Any appliance in which the products of combustion at the point of entrance to the flue under normal operating conditions have a temperature of more than 1,000ºF (538ºC), but not greater than 2,000ºF (1093ºC).


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## meternerd (Dec 13, 2017)

As far as installation, there is an electric water heater in the garage.  There is now no propane, but they may just use a refillable portable tank until they see how the business goes.  The tank will be installed outside away from any combustion sources.  Double oven is electric.  Plumbing is kinda up in the air.  They may not require a sink and dishwasher and just use the home kitchen for that.  I think they will probably go full-blown commercial if the business does well....for now they just want to unclutter the home kitchen.  I just want to be careful about following any codes that may be different for commercial vs. residential.  Me being a retired power/water company electrician and DIY homeowner, I have limited knowledge about what we need to do.  Thanks for the info!.....great site.


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## cda (Dec 13, 2017)

meternerd said:


> As far as installation, there is an electric water heater in the garage.  There is now no propane, but they may just use a refillable portable tank until they see how the business goes.  The tank will be installed outside away from any combustion sources.  Double oven is electric.  Plumbing is kinda up in the air.  They may not require a sink and dishwasher and just use the home kitchen for that.  I think they will probably go full-blown commercial if the business does well....for now they just want to unclutter the home kitchen.  I just want to be careful about following any codes that may be different for commercial vs. residential.  Me being a retired power/water company electrician and DIY homeowner, I have limited knowledge about what we need to do.  Thanks for the info!.....great site.




Oh ok

I could not tell you where this would cross from hobby to a business in a home.

If this is in a good size city, you should call the building dept to see if they have any ordinances about running a business out of a home.

What mayhelp You is there should not be any or very little customer traffic to the house


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## north star (Dec 13, 2017)

*@ ~ @ ~ @*




> *" Rural Idaho 20 miles from any sizable towns. "*


meternerd.  ...what Codes & editions are applicable, ...if any ? 

*@ ~ @ ~ @*


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## meternerd (Dec 14, 2017)

Not sure about NEC...thinking still on 2011, but not much has changed since then regarding what we want to do.  Outside any city limits, but I know a permit is still required by the county, so we'll try to do it right.  The house is very old and very little in it meets current code, so I'm hoping we don't open a can of worms requiring us to bring the whole place up to current code....that would be a deal killer for sure.


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## cda (Dec 14, 2017)

Sounds like all you adding is a couple electric outlets

Maybe a residential vent a hood??

Just say that and go on down the road

It’s a hobby,

Say like adding power for a welder, so you can work on cars


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## Pcinspector1 (Dec 14, 2017)

Does it have to meet ADA requirements?


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## cda (Dec 14, 2017)

This is someone’s home that they will be cooking some jam.

It is a hobby


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## Pcinspector1 (Dec 14, 2017)

Okay...
I had to ask!
You know, I think Coppertone suntan lotion started in a garage.


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## cda (Dec 14, 2017)

Pcinspector1 said:


> Okay...
> I had to ask!
> You know, I think Coppertone suntan lotion started in a garage.



And a few of those computer things


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## meternerd (Dec 14, 2017)

I think that's what they're hoping...the newest Google....

Thanks for the input.  It may be that the receptacles are "already there" and the vent hood may just happen to already be there, too.  Just sayin' 

Could be the DPO (dreaded previous owner) did it.  If we do it to code it'll be about the only thing that is!  Y'all have a Merry Christmas.


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## ADAguy (Dec 15, 2017)

If you go "off grid" and on a well you may eliminate the power source?
'But" if a commercial operation NSF certification of appliances may be an issue.
Do they have/can they get E & O insurance for their products?
Source of raw materials and storage of them?
Like it or not, you/they do have a bag of worms here.


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## meternerd (Dec 15, 2017)

cda said:


> Sounds like all you adding is a couple electric outlets
> 
> Maybe a residential vent a hood??
> 
> ...



-We will be installing the double oven, which will require a 40A 120/240 circuit.  No problem meeting code there, since the panel is in the same garage.

Propane cooktop only requires 120V.  Vent hood will likely be hardwired.  If it turns into a bigger business, I'm gonna bow out and recommend a professional....


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