# Restaurants charging for water issues.



## Examiner (Sep 13, 2011)

IPC 2012

Table 403.1 requires all A-2 occupancies to have Drinking Fountains.  The Drinking Fountain column also sends you to Section 410.1 for other requirements/exceptions.

A-2 Occupancies include; Nightclubs, bars, taverns, dance halls and buildings for similar purposes and Restaurants, banquet halls and food courts.

* 410.2 Minimum number. *

*Where drinking fountains are required, not fewer than two drinking fountains shall be provided.  One drinking fountain shall comply with the requirements for people who use a wheelchair and one drinking fountain shall comply with the requirements for standing persons. *

*Exception: A single drinking fountain that complies with the requirements for people who use a wheelchair and standing persons shall be permitted to be substituted for two separate drinking fountains. *

*410.3 Substitution. *

*Where restaurants provide drinking water in a container free of charge, drinking fountains shall not be required in those restaurants.  In other occupancies, where drinking fountains are required, water coolers or bottled water dispensers shall be permitted to be substituted for not more than 50 percent of the required number of drinking fountains.*

*Conclusion;*

*It appears the way it is worded that if the establishment charges for the container then they must have a drinking fountain.  Is that a correct assumption?*

*Will the lawyers find a loop hole now?*


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## Mac (Sep 13, 2011)

The answer to the first question seems more clear than the answer to the second......


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## rktect 1 (Sep 13, 2011)

Do we really need to overcomplicate this issue?

You can not charge for the cup, unless there is an alternative "free of charge" cup that goes with the "free of charge" water.


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## TJacobs (Sep 13, 2011)

The water has to be in a container to exempt drinking fountains.  Or provide the DFs.


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## mtlogcabin (Sep 13, 2011)

There is no way to regulate if an establishment charges for water or not. Management could change their policy overnight.

I can see that question on a plan review comment.

Mr. Brudgers AIA Will your client provide free drinking water at the customers request for as long as they operate their business in this location?

Will you patronize an eating establishment that will not give you a glass of water with your meal? I would walk out.


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## Codegeek (Sep 13, 2011)

The IPC commentary says "restaurants that _serve water _are not required to have drinking fountains."  It doesn't talk about a fee associated with serving the water.

I'm with mt, if they won't serve me a glass of water with my meal, I'd walk out.


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## ronwampler (Sep 13, 2011)

Who would install a hi-lo drinking fountain in a restaurant, bar or nightclub? I have difficulty having them installed in banks...


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## globe trekker (Sep 13, 2011)

ronwampler,

Welcome to the Building Codes Forum.

FWIW, most respectable & savvy restaurant owners already have the cost of all

of the "miscellaneous" supplies absorbed in to their normal operating costs.

Stuff like, the glasses / cups, ..filtered water, ..ice production, ..smiles,

..good service, ..napkins, ...salt & pepper, etc.      

.


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## pyrguy (Sep 13, 2011)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Will you patronize an eating establishment that will not give you a glass of water with your meal? I would walk out.


I have walked out of a fast food joint after the cashier tried to charge me $2.00 for water. If I'd of wanted to pay for a drink that day I would of gotten something else.


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## Builder Bob (Sep 14, 2011)

Once again, somebody has changed the code so that it will be problematic to enforce...... I am glad that hopefully SC will not move forward from the 2006 edition of the Icodes because of problematic issues in the code that are being added to the 1009, 2012 Codes.


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## Pcinspector1 (Sep 14, 2011)

I agree with mt,

That's why I carry the "collapsible plastic cup" with me at all times, you'll never know when that handle bar mustached restaurant owner's going to charge me for a cup of water!

"can I have some more chips please and some salsa!"

pc1


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## permitguy (Sep 14, 2011)

We enforced it with property maintenance officers on a complaint basis.  It was pretty rare, but it did happen.  It wasn't particularly difficult; a 5 minute phone call generally took care of it.  "Your certificate of occupancy is based on compliance with . . ."


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## BSSTG (Sep 14, 2011)

Good grief! This topic is bizarre. I've never heard of anyone charging for a glass of water in an A2. Must the Code be changed to accomodate this scenario? Must be more prevalent in some other sections of the country. Have never seen that in Texas. Then again I say, dog houses will be required to have sprinkler systems before too long the way things are going.

BS


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## Builder Bob (Sep 14, 2011)

BSSTG said:
			
		

> Good grief! This topic is bizarre. I've never heard of anyone charging for a glass of water in an A2. Must the Code be changed to accomodate this scenario? Must be more prevalent in some other sections of the country. Have never seen that in Texas. Then again I say, dog houses will be required to have sprinkler systems before too long the way things are going. BS


My doghouse has a sprinkler sytem, it helps keep the lawn watered


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## Examiner (Sep 15, 2011)

Your typical fast food chains in my area charge for water when they can get away with it.  Two Building Officails in the area say that the food establishment are in complinace with the Code for charging for the cup.  Their reply to me was I do not have to eat there.  Of course the cup costs vary at seveal of these fast foods.  The food establishment serves water but the cup to hold it in is a charge.  If you want ice there is another charge and I agree with charging for ice.  Many of the other BO's agree that the cup is free since the water from the drinking fountain was free and the container from the drinking fountain is your mouth.  I guess next time I go to a fast food and they want to charge me for the cup, since they elected not to provide a drinking fountain, I will go over to the drink dispensing area turn my head sideways so I can drink from the one dispenser for water.


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