# Roof Truss Installation Problems .. ICE>>>>>



## Mule (May 1, 2012)

Okay.. our jurisdiction has not had a residential roof truss installed since.......... Many many years! The builders AND framers just don't know that sometimes trusses are required to be installed a specific way!

What do those little red tags on the trusses mean? This part has to be over a wall???? Really?

Duhhh read the tag!!







You mean I'm not supposed to cut the main support leg?






Well since I cut it does that mean that it no longer has to be on a load bearing wall?


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## pwood (May 1, 2012)

simple fix=================start over!


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## Mule (May 1, 2012)

These were just a few problems... There were several more areas but no need to post those pictures because one picture covers several others just like it!


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## mtlogcabin (May 1, 2012)

Well I have heard EVERYTHING is bigger in Texas

I guess incompetence is too.



> Duhhh read the tag!!


You are asumming they can read and it was printed in a lanquage the installers understand.


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## fatboy (May 1, 2012)

Which is a very large assumption!


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## Big Mac (May 1, 2012)

Got a match?  Practice burn!!


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## brudgers (May 1, 2012)

Mule said:
			
		

> Duhhh read the tag!!


  I suspect the wall was built when the trusses were set.  Fixing this sort of crap will suck.

  But not too much.

  Truss engineers deal with it all the time.


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## Frank (May 1, 2012)

Hey I want this room 4 ft bigger--can you move this wall.

Sure


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## Mule (May 1, 2012)

Well.......we've spoke with the truss manufactuer. Apparently the trusses are designed to span from exterior wall to exterior wall.

Our comment was...Give us a letter stating that the way the trusses are installed is structurally safe.

The letter came back the the trusses AS DESIGNED are structurally safe!

We say...No that's not what we need! We need a letter specifying that the way the trusses are installed at this location is structurally safe.

We haven't received that letter yet!


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## pwood (May 1, 2012)

i had one like this where bearing tags were in the middle of rooms and members cut etc... on 60 ft span three and 4 point bearing trusses. i shut the job down until the project engineer, architect and truss engineer could meet me on sight for a talk. most of the trusses had new webs  installed with glued and stapled plywood sandwiches on most of the trusses. Those engineers can make a turd shine! ten years later and still no problems with the fixes.


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## Mule (May 1, 2012)

Also... This is the first time I've seen this type of tag on a truss. The tag specified additional bracing required.


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## brudgers (May 1, 2012)

Mule said:
			
		

> Well.......we've spoke with the truss manufactuer. Apparently the trusses are designed to span from exterior wall to exterior wall.   Our comment was...Give us a letter stating that the way the trusses are installed is structurally safe.  The letter came back the the trusses AS DESIGNED are structurally safe!  We say...No that's not what we need! We need a letter specifying that the way the trusses are installed at this location is structurally safe.  We haven't received that letter yet!


  If the truss manufacturer states that the trusses are designed for two point bearing, then I don't see a reasonable reason to demand something more...and this could be determined from the cut sheets anyway.  Asking the manufacturer to verify proper placement is, in my opinion, something that you have been in the business long enough to know better than to expect.

  If you have doubts, it's time to get the designer of record involved, not a specialty engineer.


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## Mule (May 1, 2012)

brudgers said:
			
		

> If the truss manufacturer states that the trusses are designed for two point bearing, then I don't see a reasonable reason to demand something more...and this could be determined from the cut sheets anyway.


The cut sheets do not indicate they are designed for a two point bearing. I am requesting information from the truss manufactuer that the trusses as installed are manufactured for two point bearing....more or less!!!


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## Big Mac (May 1, 2012)

You are correct Mule.  The best design in the world is worthless if the installation is wrong.  It matters where the rubber meets the road.  Well okay, in this case where the truss meets the house.  If it is designed for center bearing and has not been installed that way, Huston, we have a problem.


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## brudgers (May 1, 2012)

Mule said:
			
		

> The cut sheets do not indicate they are designed for a two point bearing. I am requesting information from the truss manufactuer that the trusses as installed are manufactured for two point bearing....more or less!!!


  If the cut sheets show three point bearing, then it's time to require a design professional.  Who the contractor gets to seal the fix shouldn't be your concern.

  A local will probably be more responsive.


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## David Henderson (May 1, 2012)

Mule looks like some of ICE's guy's escaped never about an APB.


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## Architect1281 (May 1, 2012)

Kindling..........


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## ICE (May 1, 2012)

Great job with the pictures Mule.


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## Pcinspector1 (May 2, 2012)

mule, nice photo's

pwood, how do you make a turd shine? Wax?

Truss designer may be able to put the truss design back up on his Square Headed Girlfrind and add a support leg and run the truss again, hoping that no red boxes pop up and send a dude out and make a field fix, submit paper work to the engineer that makes turd shine and make the inspector happy. Probably dance a jig, Texas two step, I would think!

pc1


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## DRP (May 2, 2012)

Pick it up by the clean end and polish.

A church under construction had truss rollover here last week, luckily off hours, no one hurt. Bracing...

Mule check 802.10.1 reactions req'd, I do go over these sheets carefully to make sure we all stayed on the same page.


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## pwood (May 2, 2012)

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> mule, nice photo'spwood, how do you make a turd shine? Wax?
> 
> Truss designer may be able to put the truss design back up on his Square Headed Girlfrind and add a support leg and run the truss again, hoping that no red boxes pop up and send a dude out and make a field fix, submit paper work to the engineer that makes turd shine and make the inspector happy. Probably dance a jig, Texas two step, I would think!
> 
> pc1


oh politically correct (pc) inspector only the professional ones have the knowledge to shine one. us lowly inspectors can only provide a dull sheen at best. :mrgreen:


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## Big Mac (May 2, 2012)

Mule - nice pics indeed.  Do you do weddings?  I hear they are pretty lucrative.  Side job.  Side job.


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## Pcinspector1 (May 2, 2012)

I bet it's takes a spit polish to get that shiny luster  

pc1


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## mtlogcabin (May 2, 2012)

> pwood, how do you make a turd shine?


You asked

http://www.howtocleanstuff.net/how-to-polish-a-turd/


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## GBrackins (May 2, 2012)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> You askedhttp://www.howtocleanstuff.net/how-to-polish-a-turd/


and now we know .... thanks mt!


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## GBrackins (May 2, 2012)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> You askedhttp://www.howtocleanstuff.net/how-to-polish-a-turd/


Paul Harvey could have done an excellent "the rest of the story" with this ....


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## pwood (May 3, 2012)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> You askedhttp://www.howtocleanstuff.net/how-to-polish-a-turd/


   bravo! well done my steaming colleague.


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## kyhowey (May 4, 2012)

As a former truss designer turned building inspector, if there is a red bearing tag in the middle of that truss, it must be supported by a wall or beam at that point.  If there is no bearing in that location and the truss drawing shows it being there, it must have must have support in that location.  If the truss manufacturer says that it will be okay to clear span that truss...be very weary.  They must provide you with another truss drawing showing clear span.  Typically, the metal plate sizes will change and perhaps the lumber grade when you remove that middle bearing.

It can probably be fixed by adding osb gussets at locations the plate size increases and other fixes.  The truss repair will be spec'd by the manufacturer and stamped by an engineer.  The osb gussets will be spec'd a certain size and be applied to both sides.  It will probably be glued and nailed (clinched).


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## kyhowey (May 4, 2012)

Truss bracing tags are helpful, but always look at the truss drawing.  The manufacturer doesn't always get all the tags on the truss.  You may also see a blue tag from time to time.  The blue tag is for "T" bracing on a specific web.  You'll see this in a lot of hip roofs where each truss is different.  The green lateral brace tag is only useful if you can brace 3 webs in a row(minimum).  If only 2 webs in a row match, you must use "T" bracing.



			
				Mule said:
			
		

> Also... This is the first time I've seen this type of tag on a truss. The tag specified additional bracing required.


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## Pcinspector1 (May 4, 2012)

kyhowey, I totally agree with your posting. There is that slight chance, and I repeat sight chance that they have the truss set backwards. The truss could be re-run with additional bearing designied in the truss. A lot of if's, but field work may save thier bacon.

As a former truss designer turned building inspector, me too. Short lived, 1-1/2 years in a building slow down and not an expert.

pc1


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## Mule (May 4, 2012)

Those few trusses.. I believe 3 of them were set backwards. Still waiting on verification on two point load!


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## Pcinspector1 (May 4, 2012)

See more info on trusses at www.sbcindustry.com

pc1


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## peach (May 6, 2012)

additional bracing is always required, and it's up to the building designer to specify it.  The IRC refers back to BCSI 1-03 which keeps sending you back to the "building structure system design documents for the building designer".  (Sec B7)


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