# New homes are not the problem its the older homes that need sprinklers



## forensics (Feb 9, 2011)

The HBA stated a "fuzzy fact" that new homes are safe from fires and they don't need sprinklers because they are better built.

Its not the home that burns knucklehead it the contents!

The 3 leading cause of fires are

1) Men

2) Women

3) Children

Check out the great curb appeal on this new (lightweight const.) home

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=NZxNNdl2cX0&vq=medium

enjoy?!


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## jar546 (Feb 9, 2011)

Interesting.

PA will be having more legislation introduced to circumvent the sprinkler requirement.


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## Coug Dad (Feb 9, 2011)

Statiscally, older homes have more fatal fires than newer homes. It is not a "fuzzy fact".  There are other factors, such as age and socio-ecconomic level.  Try writing a code for single family dwellings around those factors. ;-)


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## permitguy (Feb 9, 2011)

If this argument were of any consequence, we would cease the code development process altogether.  There would never be a need to change the code, because it would only apply to new homes and the older homes would go without.

How many older homes exist where guard rail spacing is not compliant with the current code?  Why was the decision to go to a 4" sphere not just as controversial as sprinklers?  The answer is cost.

We could argue sprinkler cost all you want to, but there would never be a consensus due to a number of regional factors.  It's argument for the sake of argument.  We might as well argue why a new 1,500 square foot ranch home can sell for $80,000 in my home town, but would be $225,000 in my current town.

The "age" argument is good for stirring emotions, but it is illogical at its core.  Every single code change ever adopted leaves older homes behind.  That's the nature of the beast.  News flash - every home will be old someday.


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## packsaddle (Feb 9, 2011)

what percentage of residential fires occur in manufactured/mobile homes?


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## FredK (Feb 9, 2011)

And what was the chief wanting instead of nail plates???


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## permitguy (Feb 9, 2011)

> what percentage of residential fires occur in manufactured/mobile homes?


In my jurisdiction?  0%.  My guess is that isn't your point.


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## packsaddle (Feb 9, 2011)

looking for a national average from an objective source.

thanks.


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## conarb (Feb 9, 2011)

Pack said:
			
		

> what percentage of residential fires occur in manufactured/mobile homes?


Pack, you know what went on, they could sue the ICBO, force the creation of the ICC and pack the board (remember Adolph?) getting their sprinklers through, what luck would they have had suing HUD?


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## rshuey (Feb 9, 2011)

jar546 said:
			
		

> Interesting.PA will be having more legislation introduced to circumvent the sprinkler requirement.


Already introduced.

House Bill no. 377 introduced 2 weeks ago.


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## rshuey (Feb 9, 2011)

According to my sources, the biggest problem is the lightweight construction used today. Our floor joists are no longer 2 x 12's, instead its crappy osb blued to 2 x 4's.


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## AegisFPE (Feb 9, 2011)

permitguy said:
			
		

> Every single code change ever adopted leaves older homes behind.


Smoke alarm and CO detector provisions impact existing homes.  In the IFC, smoke alarms are retroactive for existing Group R occupancies, manual fire alarm systems are retroactive for some existing Group R's, and automatic sprinklers are retroactive for Group I-2 and Pyroxylin plastics as well as nightclubs (WA).


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## conarb (Feb 9, 2011)

RShuey said:
			
		

> According to my sources, the biggest problem is the lightweight  construction used today. Our floor joists are no longer 2 x 12's,  instead its crappy osb blued to 2 x 4's.


That's true, Elmhurst Illinois did the right thing, they amended the IRC to require fire sprinklers if I Joists are used, the result the last I talked to the CBO - nobody installed the I Joists, Elmhurst got rid of both fire sprinklers and I Joists one one fell swoop.


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## brudgers (Feb 9, 2011)

packsaddle said:
			
		

> looking for a national average from an objective source.thanks.


http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/statistics/

#1 cause of fire fatalities in dwellings is smoking.

But you're more than 10 times more likely to commit suicide with a handgun than to die in a dwelling fire.


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 9, 2011)

> In the IFC, smoke alarms are retroactive for existing Group R occupancies


R-3's are not included


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## rshuey (Feb 9, 2011)

conarb said:
			
		

> That's true, Elmhurst Illinois did the right thing, they amended the IRC to require fire sprinklers if I Joists are used, the result the last I talked to the CBO - nobody installed the I Joists, Elmhurst got rid of both fire sprinklers and I Joists one one fell swoop.


Thats a great idea.


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