# Does a hotel with 24 hour staffing need to be monitored by the fire department?



## ASchafer (Jul 30, 2013)

Hi,

I have been tearing my hair out for several days trying to find the answer to this with no luck!

This is a multipart question. I need to be able to site the code to the owners so if you could guide me to the right sections that would be wonderful!

The property in question is a 69 room hotel located in north central Ohio.

1st: If a hotel is staffed 24 hours a day does the fire alarm system need to have an auto dialer or some other monitoring device installed to notify the local fire department of any alarm situations?

If the answer is no, ignore the rest!

2nd: Are actual alarm situations all that need to be reported or do all alarms including supervisory/trouble alarms need to be?

3rd: Is a dedicated phone line required for this and if so, can it be through a cable company telephone system or does it have to be a traditional land line?

Thank you so very much for any help you can offer!

Andy


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## Gregg Harris (Jul 30, 2013)

ASchafer said:
			
		

> Hi,I have been tearing my hair out for several days trying to find the answer to this with no luck!
> 
> This is a multipart question. I need to be able to site the code to the owners so if you could guide me to the right sections that would be wonderful!
> 
> ...


Try IFC 907 particularly 907.2.11.1 this should get you close to your answer


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## cda (Jul 30, 2013)

ASchafer said:
			
		

> Hi,I have been tearing my hair out for several days trying to find the answer to this with no luck!
> 
> This is a multipart question. I need to be able to site the code to the owners so if you could guide me to the right sections that would be wonderful!
> 
> ...


1. What code and edition is adopted today

2. Do you know what code was adopted when the building was built

3. What year was the building built

4 how are you connected with all this


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## mjesse (Jul 30, 2013)

Also, be aware of any local amendments to the Code.

Our jurisdiction requires automatic monitoring from a wireless company specified by the Fire District.

...and welcome to the forum

mj


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## midwestFCO (Jul 30, 2013)

Hello,

Welcome. Ohio here also.

1 - Yes

2 - Alarm only.  Typically the smoke devices in the rooms are supervisory and alert the desk attendant who then responds.  If common smoke devices are activated (hallways, storage roms, elevator equipment, etc.) or any pull station or waterflow it should be an alarm.  Duct Smoke detectors can be supervisory also, but many require them to be alarm conditions too...up to the AHJ.  The smoke detectors in handicapped rooms at our hotels also report as alarm conditions, for what it is worth.

3 - The communication is not required to be POTS, but it can vary by jurisdiction, I would again check with the AHJ.  They are required to have two means of commuincation, so you could use two different types for communicating.


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## noledgeispwr201 (Jul 30, 2013)

From the International Fire Code:

4603.6.5 Group R-1. A fire alarm system and smoke alarms shall be installed in existing Group R-1 occupancies in accordance with Sections 4603.6.5.1 through 4603.6.5.2.1.

4603.6.5.1 Group R-1 hotel and motel manual fire alarm system. A manual fire alarm system that activates the occupant notification system in accordance with Section 907.6 shall be installed in existing Group R-1 hotels and motels more than three stories or with more than 20 sleeping units.

Exceptions:

1. Buildings less than two stories in height where all sleeping units, attics and crawl spaces are separated by 1-hour fire-resistance-rated construction and each sleeping unit has direct access to a public way, egress court or yard.

2. Manual fire alarm boxes are not required throughout the building when the following conditions are met:

2.1. The building is equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system installed in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1 or 903.3.1.2;

2.2. The notification appliances will activate upon sprinkler water flow; and

2.3. At least one manual fire alarm box is installed at an approved location.

4603.6.5.1.1 Group R-1 hotel and motel automatic smoke detection system. An automatic smoke detection system that activates the occupant notification system in accordance with Section 907.6 shall be installed in existing Group R-1 hotels and motels throughout all interior corridors serving sleeping rooms not equipped with an approved, supervised sprinkler system installed in accordance with Section 903.

Exception: An automatic smoke detection system is not required in buildings that do not have interior corridors serving sleeping units and where each sleeping unit has a means of egress door opening directly to an exit or to an exterior exit access that leads directly to an exit.

OFC 2011

907.6 Occupant notification systems. A fire alarm system shall annunciate at the panel and shall initiate occupant notification upon activation, in accordance with Sections 907.6.1 through 907.6.2.3.4. Where a fire alarm system is required by another section of this code, it shall be activated by:

1. Automatic fire detectors.

2. Sprinkler waterflow devices.

3. Manual fire alarm boxes.

4. Automatic fire-extinguishing systems.

Exception: Where notification systems are allowed elsewhere in Section 907 to annunciate at a constantly attended location.

So......it is an R-1 use group....the system is mandated by Code....regardless of the year it was built (says that in the Code)....but it can be a "local" alarm as long as it rings to a 24hr constantly attended location....as long as the front desk is staffed 24hrs...and the "clerk" is really there to answer....then it is my interpretation that it does NOT have to be monitored.....

Curious to see what everyone else has to say...............


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## noledgeispwr201 (Jul 30, 2013)

BUT......the OFC also gives the AHJ the authority to go above and beyond what the MINIMUM STANDARDS are as set forth in it. So through local ordinances and whatnot, you could require it to be monitored as the AHJ......


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## ASchafer (Aug 2, 2013)

I do not know which codes are adopted today or were adopted when the building was built.

This particular building was built in 2002 but we have 4 other properties that we are also trying to decide about that were built between 1997 and 2000. I was just using this one as an example since it is the biggest.  

I am the head of maintenance for these properties and have been asked by the owners to find out about it. We recently bought 3 of these properties. The original 2 were never monitored but the 3 new acquisitions are so they want to know which is the right way. Unfortunately they don't want me to attract the attention of our AHJ or I would have just called him!


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## ASchafer (Aug 2, 2013)

Thank you all for the information! It has definitely helped. It looks like it really boils down to what the AHJ decides he wants to see. I know him pretty well and he is a great guy who is willing to work with me. It is just a matter of convincing the owners that we won't be opening ourselves up to a massive issue just by calling him! It can sometimes be quite interesting working for paranoid folks!  

Thanks again!


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## ASchafer (Aug 2, 2013)

I'm sorry, I meant to include this in the last post! The code I finally landed on, after being given a good direction to look by you guys, is:

*IFC 903.4.1 Monitoring.*

*Alarm, supervisory and trouble signals shall be distinctly different and shall be automatically transmitted to an approved supervising station **or, when approved by the fire code official, shall sound an audible signal at a constantly attended location.*



So like I said, after many hours of reading through codes and then throwing myself at your feet and begging for help, I still just need to call my AHJ and ask him! But at least now I can prove that to suits in the big office!  

Thanks again!


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## cda (Aug 2, 2013)

Ok

Well if not monitored today, sounds like there was a reason the ahj allowed it to be that way.

Some hotels have a bad habit when it comes to fire alarm systems.

I would highly suggest from a liability stand point to get the systems monitored.

There are various methods to transmit the signal, I have not heard of using the cable telephone, yes it can be done through an Internet connection.

I would call three companies and have them look at the system and tell you all the possible ways they can do it.

One is if the ahj will allow it is by radio transmitter

All conditions of the fire alarm system report to the monitoring company, but normally only a true alarm is called to the FD


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## ASchafer (Aug 2, 2013)

cda said:
			
		

> OkWell if not monitored today, sounds like there was a reason the ahj allowed it to be that way.


That's what I was figuring but there is a new AHJ since we opened and my "superiors" are afraid to rock the boat by asking him questions. Personally, my first course of action would have been to call him since he is a very reasonable guy and I like him a lot! I actually look forward to my annual inspections because it is always a pleasant couple of hours chatting and swapping stories!

Thanks again for all the input!


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## cda (Aug 2, 2013)

So suggest to your owners to be proactive and install monitoring.

Once installed you pay for phone line and the monthly monitoring cost

Makes you look good!!!! Plus takes some liability off the owner


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## globe trekker (Aug 4, 2013)

ASchafer,

What does your insurance company require?  Will monitoring equal a lower premium?  Suggest you contact them

to get their input!

.


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## fireguy (Aug 4, 2013)

I would also check to see if anyone has been doing any IT&M for the life safety systems.  If so, are there any service or inspection reports?  If not, contact the service agency for any reports.  Then check for any deficiencies, and discuss those with the service company. It may be they were not allowed to repair problems. They may have decided they did not want to be liable if problems were not fixed, and refused to work at the property .

If we find problems, we try to work with the company.  If we get a negative response from the owner, and if the problems are serious, I may contact the FM directly and send him copies of the service reports. You would be surprised how attitudes change when the FM requires a fire watch/threatens to shut down the operation.


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## cda (Aug 4, 2013)

IT&M

as in annual inspections???

or is this an insurance thing?


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## ASchafer (Aug 5, 2013)

We did check with the insurance and they don't require monitoring but will give us a small discount on premiums. Very small!

I am in charge of making sure our systems are inspected and maintained properly. All systems are in very good shape and operate properly. This question all came about because of the purchase of the other properties which are monitored. The management and maintenance for those properties insist they are required to be monitored, we, however, were under the impression we were not required to be.

I have been in charge of the two original properties for 11 years now and the Fire Marshal (who is the AHJ I have been referring to) hasn't said anything about monitoring when he has done my annuals. I'm not sure  if that is because he just didn't think about it or because it doesn't matter to him.

I am hoping we will be figuring this out soon and I will be sure to let you all know what the result is.

Thanks again for all the input!


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## cda (Aug 5, 2013)

Maybe he assumes they are monitored??


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## ASchafer (Aug 5, 2013)

cda said:
			
		

> Maybe he assumes they are monitored??


That is what I am kind of wondering. The FM that did our final inspection died a few weeks later and this guy took over so he wasn't involved with our initial setup at all. We tend to do a lot of chit chat during the inspections and I wonder if it just slips his mind.


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## cda (Aug 5, 2013)

Be proactive get them monitored


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## rnapier (Aug 5, 2013)

Here we consider a constantly monitored location to require at least two people so they can take a bathroom or food break and maintain monitoring and these people would have to be properly trained to respond to any trouble, supervisory or alarm situations.


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## peach (Aug 6, 2013)

I believe the alarm sounding to the front desk meets the intent of the code... even with elevators.  As long as the staff is trained to call 911.


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## firemanx (Sep 26, 2014)

midwestFCO said:
			
		

> Hello,Welcome. Ohio here also.
> 
> 1 - Yes
> 
> ...


Sorry for digging up an old thread here, however, does anyone know what code defines that guest rooms in a hotel are allowed to be wired to a FACP as a supervisory signal?  Is this only allowed in circumstances in which the front desk is constantly attended?

I'm assuming that this should be contained in one of the NFPA 72 editions, but haven't located it thus far.  Any help is most appreciated.


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## cda (Sep 26, 2014)

firemanx said:
			
		

> Sorry for digging up an old thread here, however, does anyone know what code defines that guest rooms in a hotel are allowed to be wired to a FACP as a supervisory signal?  Is this only allowed in circumstances in which the front desk is constantly attended?I'm assuming that this should be contained in one of the NFPA 72 editions, but haven't located it thus far.  Any hellp is most appreciated.


Are you talking about smoke alarms in a unit??

May be 101

Not IFC

Or the on site monitoring of a fire alarm system versus to a monitoring company???


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## firemanx (Sep 26, 2014)

peach said:
			
		

> I believe the alarm sounding to the front desk meets the intent of the code... even with elevators.  As long as the staff is trained to call 911.


I wasn't sure, after reading the 2006 IFC and trying to search through NFPA 72, whether or not an activated smoke detection device in a guest room required an alarm activation or supervisory (as you might find in a duct detector (907.12)).

The structure that I'm working with in this case is a 4 story hotel that is sprinkled throughout.  907.2.8.3 allows for the transmission of smoke alarms to a constantly attended station for manual activation when the building is not equipped throughout with a sprinkler system.

I'm assuming that since a higher level of protection is being instituted in terms of the sprinkler system, that 907.2.8.3 is still allowable as the intent is still the same?


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## cda (Sep 26, 2014)

907.2.8.3 Smoke alarms.

Smoke alarms shall be installed as required by Section 907.2.10. In buildings that are not equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system installed in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1 or 903.3.1.2, the smoke alarms in sleeping units shall be connected to an emergency electrical system and shall be annunciated by sleeping unit at a constantly attended location from which the fire alarm system is capable of being manually activated.


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## cda (Sep 26, 2014)

Quick read I say they are not required to be monitored in any way, in a sprinkled building


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## Paul Sweet (Sep 26, 2014)

A guest room smoke detector should give a supervisory signal instead of sounding the building alarm, because there are too many false alarms.  A couple nights ago the smoke detector started beeping in the room I was staying in when the electric heat came on for the first time since spring and some accumulated dust ionized.

A heat detector or water flow in the sprinkler system should sound a general alarm.


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## cda (Sep 26, 2014)

Paul Sweet said:
			
		

> A guest room smoke detector should give a supervisory signal instead of sounding the building alarm, because there are too many false alarms.  A couple nights ago the smoke detector started beeping in the room I was staying in when the electric heat came on for the first time since spring and some accumulated dust ionized.A heat detector or water flow in the sprinkler system should sound a general alarm.


Code section requiring monitored smoke alarms in a room


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## tmurray (Sep 27, 2014)

Is there such a thing as monitored smoke alarms or just smoke detectors?


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## cda (Sep 27, 2014)

tmurray said:
			
		

> Is there such a thing as monitored smoke alarms or just smoke detectors?


Well yes and no


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## tmurray (Sep 29, 2014)

cda said:
			
		

> Well yes and no


Now I know how other people feel when talking to me...


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## cda (Sep 29, 2014)

tmurray said:
			
		

> Now I know how other people feel when talking to me...


I have my own defintion and more than likely not liked by some.

I want to say a lot of hotel/ motels smoke alarms you see "in the room" are stand alone and not monitored.

Yes there are systems out there that can monitor smoke alarms only, like a nurse call station, or maybe I am out of date?


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## tmurray (Sep 29, 2014)

Maybe this is Canada only,

Smoke Alarms - stand alone detection and notification

Smoke Detector - detection only, ties to fire alarm panel for notification

Could some others chime in? I'd really like to know if the terms are only different in Canada.


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## cda (Sep 30, 2014)

tmurray said:
			
		

> Maybe this is Canada only,Smoke Alarms - stand alone detection and notification
> 
> Smoke Detector - detection only, ties to fire alarm panel for notification
> 
> Could some others chime in? I'd really like to know if the terms are only different in Canada.


I agree with your definitions


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## firemanx (Sep 30, 2014)

Paul Sweet said:
			
		

> A guest room smoke detector should give a supervisory signal instead of sounding the building alarm, because there are too many false alarms.  A couple nights ago the smoke detector started beeping in the room I was staying in when the electric heat came on for the first time since spring and some accumulated dust ionized.A heat detector or water flow in the sprinkler system should sound a general alarm.


Sorry for being off the radar the past couple of days after posting my original "revival" of this old thread.  In my experience, if an alarm system is installed in a hotel, guest room smoke detectors are installed to report as a supervisory signal to the FACP, however I am unable to find any code that makes this a requirement.  I found a section in NFPA 101 (which is not applicable in my jurisdiction) that indicates that a guest room smoke detector should trigger a full alarm mode to the FACP.

I tend to agree with CDA at this point, that with the lack of a specific code (IFC, IBC, NFPA70 or 72) calling out for guest room smoke detectors to report in to a FACP at all, either supervisory or alarm(The exception here is IFC 907.2.8.3 which does require monitoring of the guest rooms in a non sprinkled structure).  There is specific code that calls out for the lobby and corridor smoke detectors to report to the FACP, but not for the guest rooms (see previously mentioned exception).

Given that this is a sprinkled structure, the code requirements I can find is that smoke detection must be installed in the guest room (State amendment to the IFC), there is no call out elsewhere for monitoring or FACP involvement.

Perhaps this is just the industry standard practice? To install guest room smoke detection on a supervisory signal?


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## cda (Sep 30, 2014)

firemanx said:
			
		

> Sorry for being off the radar the past couple of days after posting my original "revival" of this old thread.  In my experience, if an alarm system is installed in a hotel, guest room smoke detectors are installed to report as a supervisory signal to the FACP, however I am unable to find any code that makes this a requirement.  I found a section in NFPA 101 (which is not applicable in my jurisdiction) that indicates that a guest room smoke detector should trigger a full alarm mode to the FACP.I tend to agree with CDA at this point, that with the lack of a specific code (IFC, IBC, NFPA70 or 72) calling out for guest room smoke detectors to report in to a FACP at all, either supervisory or alarm(The exception here is IFC 907.2.8.3 which does require monitoring of the guest rooms in a non sprinkled structure).  There is specific code that calls out for the lobby and corridor smoke detectors to report to the FACP, but not for the guest rooms (see previously mentioned exception).
> 
> Given that this is a sprinkled structure, the code requirements I can find is that smoke detection must be installed in the guest room (State amendment to the IFC), there is no call out elsewhere for monitoring or FACP involvement.
> 
> Perhaps this is just the industry standard practice? To install guest room smoke detection on a supervisory signal?


I want to say normally smoke alarms in rooms are not monitored. Otherwise the manager is going to have to go to the room, ignore it, or call the fire dept.

It appears 101 has even gotten away from it in hospital rooms???


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