# High/Low drinking fountains in schoolyard



## Yikes (May 6, 2016)

I have a project that it a public elementary school in California.  I'm adding a small relocatable and shade structure in the kindergarten play yard, and I'm sure DSA will ask for accessible drinking fountains.
There are six existing drinking fountains all meet the height requirement for the "low" fountain (11B-602.6), but there are no standing aka "high" fountains out there (11B-602,7).  They aren't actually needed, because it's kindergartners running around and getting thirsty. 

Unfortunately, CBC 11B-211.3 requires that 50% of the total number of fountains be provided be at standing height of 38-43" AFF.  Even if I can find the funds to modify 3 out of 6 drinking fountains, this height will make them LESS functional for all the kindergartners.  The average 5 year old is only 40" tall to the top of their head.

CBC 11B-604.9 has alternative toilet fixture heights for children's use in schools, but there does not seem to be an equivalent for drinking fountains.  Worse yet,

Does anyone know of any DSA or CBC exception for young children?


----------



## jar546 (May 11, 2016)

Come on California people.  No responses yet.......


----------



## JPohling (May 11, 2016)

I do not see any exception for children's use other than 11B-602.2 for a parallel approach.  Teachers get thirsty too!


----------



## ADAguy (May 11, 2016)

CA responds, DF's are not just for the kinders (duh!) teachers (as noted above), aides and parents need/use them too.


----------



## conarb (May 11, 2016)

I haven't seen a drinking fountain in years, or course the last time I was in on was the 70s when I built a couple, I didn't think anyone used them anymore, the sale of bottled water is a huge industry since pubic water is considered unsafe to drink by many.


----------



## Msradell (May 11, 2016)

conarb said:


> the sale of bottled water is a huge industry since pubic water is considered unsafe to drink by many.


That's only in California, Florida and a couple of other isolated locations, the rest of the country has great drink water and doesn't want to pay for water they can get out of the faucet!


----------



## mark handler (May 12, 2016)

Msradell said:


> That's only in California, Florida and a couple of other isolated locations, the rest of the country has great drink water and doesn't want to pay for water they can get out of the faucet!


*
I know it is fun to bash California but it is the same in the 2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design 
the verbage is almost identical
211.3 More Than Minimum Number. *Where more than the minimum number of drinking fountains specified in 211.2 are provided, 50 percent of the total number of drinking fountains provided shall comply with 602.1 through 602.6, and 50 percent of the total number of drinking fountains provided shall comply with 602.7.

*There is no exception for Kindergarden uses.*


----------



## JPohling (May 16, 2016)

Been drinking San Diego tap water for over 50 years, but prefer the beer.


----------



## Yikes (May 19, 2016)

Yes, but my point is, why the 50/50 ratio?  I can understand having at least one drinking fountain for standing adults, but picture a school yard with 60 kindergartners and 3 adults.  The code is saying if I have 6 drinking fountains in the school yard, the adults will each get their own high fountain (1:1 ratio), and the kindergartners will have a 1:20 ratio at the low fountain.  Does that make logical sense to anyone?


----------



## mark handler (May 20, 2016)

. Does that make logical sense? No, noone said the code is logical. In a bank of drinking fountains,
I would make one high and the rest low. Show it to DSA at plancheck, get their approval and walk away.  You are waisting to may brain cells on a querk in the code . The code cannot cover every condition. That is the problem with any code or standard. We get so locked into the letter of the code we forget about the intent. In this case the intent, lettrr of the code and practicality of circumstances do not coincide.


----------



## mark handler (May 20, 2016)

*NOT 2013


Under the 2010* California Plumbing Code Table 4-1 
Footnotes
10. General. In applying this schedule of facilities, consideration shall be given to the accessibility of the fixtures. *Conformity purely on a numerical basis may not result in an installation suited to the needs of the individual establishment.*


----------



## ADAguy (May 20, 2016)

Check the plumbing chapter code adoption matrix, is it adopted by DSA, or not?


----------



## mark handler (May 20, 2016)

ADAguy said:


> Check the plumbing chapter code adoption matrix, is it adopted by DSA, or not?


Mute issue; 2010 code


----------

