# Natural ventilation via overhead doors



## Sifu (May 13, 2020)

I have a 12,000s.f. M occupancy, a furniture showroom, one big room.  The designer is proposing that all ventilation will be provided by a natural means and they are using 2 large overhead doors as the method for providing most of it.  2018 IMC 402.1 and IBC 1202.5 both require the openings to be readily accessible and readily controllable by the occupants of the building.  Project is in CO, darn hot in the summer, darn cold in the winter, but darn nice most of the time.  Heat is supplied by gas unit heaters, with no A/C.  What are the thoughts on using the 14' overhead doors as the primary method of outside air (man doors supply less than 1% of the floor area)?  Are they readily controllable by the occupants?


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## steveray (May 13, 2020)

Bad design but code compliant.....Kind of like using bathroom windows....


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## mtlogcabin (May 13, 2020)

The operating mechanism for such openings shall be provided with ready access so that the openings are readily controllable by the building occupants.

That would mean the door opening controls would have to be accessible


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## Sifu (May 13, 2020)

My thinking as well but I completely overlooked the accessibility issue.


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## steveray (May 13, 2020)

Depends on how hard you want to fight exception #1

1109.13 Controls, operating mechanisms and hardware.
Controls, operating mechanisms and hardware intended for
operation by the occupant, including switches that control
lighting and ventilation and electrical convenience outlets, in
accessible spaces, along accessible routes or as parts of
accessible elements shall be accessible.
Exceptions:
1. Operable parts that are intended for use only by service
or maintenance personnel shall not be required
to be accessible.


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## mtlogcabin (May 13, 2020)

steveray said:


> in
> accessible spaces,


I don't think you can use the exception since the doors will be providing natural ventilation for the entire store/show room which is required to be accessible.


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## steveray (May 13, 2020)

If they has maintenance people on staff they could cheat...lets face it, no one opens windows anyway even if provided...


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## Sifu (May 14, 2020)

steveray said:


> Depends on how hard you want to fight exception #1
> 
> 1109.13 Controls, operating mechanisms and hardware.
> Controls, operating mechanisms and hardware intended for
> ...



I thought about that too but since they are relying on it for ventilation and they must be readily controllable by all occupants they can't make the argument that it is for use only by service or maintenance personnel.


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## cda (May 14, 2020)

Sifu said:


> I thought about that too but since they are relying on it for ventilation and they must be readily controllable by all occupants they can't make the argument that it is for use only by service or maintenance personnel.




ALL??

The business normally will not let me turn down the a/c, if I feel it is to hot in a restaurant


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## Sifu (May 14, 2020)

No, but if the A/C is part of the mechanical ventilation system then it has automatic controls that provide the required ventilation without your intervention.....theoretically.


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## klarenbeek (May 14, 2020)

I agree with Steveray… Bad design but code compliant.
Code definition of "ready access" means you can get to it without removal of panels or similar obstructions.  If the door controls are out in the open then it meets code minimum. I would say if the controls are behind a customer service counter or even in the open in a back area accessible to employees it still meets minimum requirements.  No different than a thermostat.


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## ADAguy (May 14, 2020)

Sifu said:


> My thinking as well but I completely overlooked the accessibility issue.



should always be on your mind


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## mark handler (May 15, 2020)

Sifu said:


> I have a 12,000s.f. M occupancy, a furniture showroom, one big room.  The designer is proposing that all ventilation will be provided by a natural means and they are using 2 large overhead doors as the method for providing most of it.  2018 IMC 402.1 and IBC 1202.5 both require the openings to be readily accessible and readily controllable by the occupants of the building.  Project is in CO, darn hot in the summer, darn cold in the winter, but darn nice most of the time.  Heat is supplied by gas unit heaters, with no A/C.  What are the thoughts on using the 14' overhead doors as the primary method of outside air (man doors supply less than 1% of the floor area)?  Are they readily controllable by the occupants?


So they shall remain shuttered during all inclement weather? Bad buisness model.


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## ADAguy (May 15, 2020)

Yes but: unfortunately it meets minimum, no?


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## mark handler (May 15, 2020)

Horrible buisness plan.
Doors shall remain open at all times building is occupied. Good luck with that in the inclement weather areas.

But yes it appears to meet the IMC
Now they will not be able to heat or cool the building.....


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## rgrace (May 19, 2020)

In my first year doing plan review, I had a structure that proposed natural ventilation. This was new to me, and as I went through the code requirements for natural ventilation, I though it was absurd. In my jurisdiction we have really hot summers and really cold winters. The code said that ventilation must be provided during the periods the room or space is occupied. That would mean all the windows and doors had to be open in order to provide ventilation (yes, the doors too since without them, the designer couldn't get the 4% required openings to the exterior). What person in their right mind is going to open all the windows and doors when its 95 degrees outside in the summer or 25 degrees in the winter ?!? But there it was, in the code and this structure met all the requirements ! So I approved the plan, but not before making a note on it in bright red ink that said "All windows and doors must be open during all occupied periods." Weeks/months (?) later, I was on a ride-along with one of our inspectors (during a wiinter month) and it happened that we went to this same project. When we went in, there were temperary heaters set up to keep the interior warm for the workers. We met the forman and asked to see the approved plans before conducting the inspection. When he opened the plans, there was my note  We both looked at the note, then at him, then at the closed windows and doors, and asked him why all the windows and doors were closed. Moral of the story, he was willing to go around and open all the windows and doors while we were there conducting our inspection just to appease us, but would have them all closed again once we left. A designer doesn't always do their customer right by providing natural ventilation as the primary means for ventilation and a customer is generally ignorant when lured in by a designer who states that natural ventilation can save in HVAC costs. I had another project, a child day care center, that proposed natural ventilation. I rejected the design, damning the consequesces, and was releaved when the building official agreed with the call. The safety of our children is more important than the cost savings on an HVAC system. Let them appeal !


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## e hilton (May 19, 2020)

rgrace said:


> The safety of our children is more important than the cost savings on an HVAC system. Let them appeal !


Couldn’t you put security guards over the openings to keep the kids in and still have ventilation?


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## rgrace (May 19, 2020)

e hilton said:


> Couldn’t you put security guards over the openings to keep the kids in and still have ventilation?



Great idea ! Nobody thought about that. I suppose you could. Too late now, that too was years ago


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## classicT (May 19, 2020)

e hilton said:


> Couldn’t you put security guards over the openings to keep the kids in and still have ventilation?


My concern would be more that it is extremely unlikely that the doors and windows would be left open while it is snowing and 25-deg. in January. 

No ventilation means no fresh oxygen rich air. Carbon monoxide anyone.


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## ADAguy (May 19, 2020)

Still you have the bugs to consider too.


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## e hilton (May 19, 2020)

ADAguy said:


> Still you have the bugs to consider too.


For little boys ... bugs are protein, waiting to be caught.


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## Rick18071 (May 20, 2020)

Some people here (not me) think that screens are required if you are using doors for natural ventilation.


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## mark handler (May 20, 2020)

Rick18071 said:


> Some people here (not me) think that screens are required if you are using doors for natural ventilation.


Not totally Correct, in California

CA Building Code 1203.5 Natural Ventilation
Natural ventilation of an occupied space shall be through windows, doors, louvers or other openings to the outdoors. The operating mechanism for such openings shall be provided with ready access so that the openings are readily controllable by the building occupants.
[HCD 1] In *employee housing*, all openable windows in rooms used for living, dining, cooking or sleeping purposes, and toilet and bath buildings, *shall be provided and maintained with insect screening.*
[HCD 1] Door openings of rooms used for dining, cooking, toilet and bathing facilities in *employee housing* *shall be provided and maintained with insect screening* or with solid doors equipped with self-closing devices in lieu thereof, when approved by the enforcement agency.

Under OSHPD 
1224.4.9.4 Screens
Windows which may be frequently left in an open position shall be provided with insect screens of 16 meshes to the inch.


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## ADAguy (May 20, 2020)

mark handler said:


> Not totally Correct, in California
> 
> CA Building Code 1203.5 Natural Ventilation
> Natural ventilation of an occupied space shall be through windows, doors, louvers or other openings to the outdoors. The operating mechanism for such openings shall be provided with ready access so that the openings are readily controllable by the building occupants.
> ...



Thanks Mark, As I previously indicated,


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## Paul Sweet (May 20, 2020)

Virginia has a similar requirement for screens on windows or doors used for natural ventilation.


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## Rick18071 (May 20, 2020)

Interesting. What is the definition of *employee housing*? Must be a CA thing, not in the IBC.


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## mark handler (May 21, 2020)

Rick18071 said:


> Interesting. What is the definition of *employee housing*? Must be a CA thing, not in the IBC.


The *Employee Housing Act *and the adopted regulations govern the standards for the construction, maintenance, use, and occupancy of living quarters, called "employee housing," provided for five or more employees under specified circumstances. Employee housing subject to the Act is privately-operated and does not include government-owned or -operated migrant worker facilities.
In general, employee housing is privately-owned housing that houses five or more employees and meets the following:

Living quarters provided in connection with any work, whether or not rent is involved.
Housing in a rural area that is:
Provided by someone who is not an agricultural employer, and
Provided for agricultural workers employed by any agricultural employer.

Any city, county, or city and county may assume responsibility for enforcement of the Employee Housing Act upon written notice to, and approval by the Department. Where a local government has not assumed enforcement responsibility, or enforcement has been taken away from a local agency because of non-enforcement, the Department is the enforcement agency.


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## mark handler (May 21, 2020)

Agriculture is a significant sector in California's economy, producing nearly $50 billion in revenue in 2018. There are more than 400 commodity crops grown across California, including a significant portion of all fruits and nuts for the United States. In 2017, there were 77,100 unique farms and ranches in the state, operating across 25.3 million acres of land. The average farm size was 328 acres, significantly less than the average farm size in the U.S. of 444 acres.

Much of the vegetables you eat, come from CA. That is why it is* so stupid *to stop the migrant workers from coming across the boarder. All the wall people are doing is costing themselves more at the market.


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## ADAguy (May 21, 2020)

mark handler said:


> Agriculture is a significant sector in California's economy, producing nearly $50 billion in revenue in 2018. There are more than 400 commodity crops grown across California, including a significant portion of all fruits and nuts for the United States. In 2017, there were 77,100 unique farms and ranches in the state, operating across 25.3 million acres of land. The average farm size was 328 acres, significantly less than the average farm size in the U.S. of 444 acres.
> 
> Much of the vegetables you eat, come from CA. That is why it is* so stupid *to stop the migrant workers from coming across the boarder. All the wall people are doing is costing themselves more at the market.



"Spot on" Mark!


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## steveray (May 22, 2020)

We all already knew that Cali was full of fruits and nuts.....


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## mark handler (May 22, 2020)

steveray said:


> We all already knew that Cali was full of fruits and nuts.....


5th largest economy in the world...


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## Sifu (May 27, 2020)

UPDATE:
The resubmittal came in today.  The design now includes mechanical ventilation.


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## Drifter29 (Jul 22, 2022)

My local AHJ would not permit natural ventilation because it didn't make sense to open windows in the winter.  We didn't have time in the project schedule to submit an appeal.  ICC Interpretation agreed that as long as the openings are "readily available" that Natural Ventilation can be used.  The AHJ has essentially removed the approved approach of Natural Ventilation from the code.  Frustrating.


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## klarenbeek (Jul 29, 2022)

There are a few occupancies that require mechanical ventilation. If it is not one of those, unless the code was actually amended locally, he is basically making his own requirements and not following what the code says.  I would ask him for the code section that prohibits natural ventilation.  Most areas of the country have periods of time where it makes no sense to have open windows......


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