# Split Bolts for the Impaired



## jar546 (Aug 25, 2019)

I have no words.  Just look at this.


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## Builder Bob (Aug 26, 2019)

WOW... to cheap to buy the official UL listed lug connector eh?


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## e hilton (Aug 27, 2019)

BB ... if you zoom in you can see UL cast/stamped in the side of the bolt.  So i assume you mean the correct size?   And it look like there are multiple conductors in there.  Looks like a hack job.


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## Builder Bob (Aug 28, 2019)

UL listed device specific to manufacture of panel - Square D Homeline
 panel depicted... others may vary.

Manufactured to resolve issues as depicted above.

BB


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## e hilton (Aug 28, 2019)

Ok.  Not being an electrician i didnt know specific connectors existed.


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## Builder Bob (Aug 28, 2019)

e hilton said:


> Ok.  Not being an electrician i didn't know specific connectors existed.



Not trying to step on fingers or toes, We all started somewhere and I still have a lot to learn myself.  The purpose of this forum is for information and networking - I figured that you did not have any electrical experience and wanted this to be an educational moment for you as well as others. 

I know enough to be trouble, and also enjoy when other more knowledgeable than me provide feedback to further educate myself.


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## ICE (Aug 28, 2019)

e hilton said:


> BB ... if you zoom in you can see UL cast/stamped in the side of the bolt.  So i assume you mean the correct size?   And it look like there are multiple conductors in there.  Looks like a hack job.




I bet it works.

Not everything turns out the way you want it.




But not everything that's wrong is awful.




That little split-bolt on the neutral is awful.  I would be looking that job over.....and over again.....and then one more time.


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## jar546 (Aug 28, 2019)

OK, they went above the code.  Nice.


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## ICE (Aug 28, 2019)

jar546 said:


> OK, they went above the code.  Nice.



A homeowner did it.  I asked him to move the spit-bolts to the ends of the armor.


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## e hilton (Aug 28, 2019)

Builder Bob said:


> Not trying to step on fingers or toes,.


Step all you want, sometimes my ignorance amazes even me.


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## jar546 (Aug 28, 2019)

ICE said:


> A homeowner did it.  I asked him to move the spit-bolts to the ends of the armor.



You asked him to do that because...............why?


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## ICE (Aug 28, 2019)

jar546 said:


> You asked him to do that because...............why?



It happened on a Tuesday. Ya that’s the ticket.....it happened on a Tuesday.

The other end of the armor terminates at a service cabinet.  The armor stops at the point where it is clamped.  The armor is not allowed to enter the cabinet.  The explanation that I was given is that the current will make it to the end of the armor no matter what so that’s where it stops and the bonding bushing takes over.
If that’s true at the service cabinet I reckon it’s also true at the rod.


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## Builder Bob (Aug 28, 2019)

e hilton said:


> Step all you want, sometimes my ignorance amazes even me.



After 31 years of code experience, my own ignorance amazes me....


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## jar546 (Aug 29, 2019)

ICE said:


> It happened on a Tuesday. Ya that’s the ticket.....it happened on a Tuesday.
> 
> The other end of the armor terminates at a service cabinet.  The armor stops at the point where it is clamped.  The armor is not allowed to enter the cabinet.  The explanation that I was given is that the current will make it to the end of the armor no matter what so that’s where it stops and the bonding bushing takes over.
> If that’s true at the service cabinet I reckon it’s also true at the rod.



Do as I say.  Just because.  I don't have a code reference or mfg installation instructions to back me up but just do as I say anyway because I am the inspector.


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## ICE (Aug 29, 2019)

jar546 said:


> Do as I say.  Just because.  I don't have a code reference or mfg installation instructions to back me up but just do as I say anyway because I am the inspector.



Did I tell you that it was on a Tuesday?  A guy that can't think outside the box is no better than the jackass you describe.  Not everything has been preordained so that you don't have to think about it......just do it like this because that's how you read the code ...that is short sighted....lazy.

I discuss things with a phalanx of engineers.  I ask them questions when I see something that is not spelled out in code or manufacturers installation instructions.  Because of my inquisitive nature I have caused UL listings to evaporate.  I have been asked by UL, ETL, etc to participate on Standard making panels.  Why is that?  It is because I found problems without answers.....violations with no code to match.  I have played a significant role in shaping segments of the industry.

Now and then there is talk of a need to ask for a code change....submit this or that.  I've done it with a correction notice.

So don't come around giving me your high-horse bs about simple stuff like I didn't think it through.

While I'm at it here's another bit of advice: It serves no purpose for you to refer to people as idiots.  You have none of the back story and just one side.  Wait a minute here, it does serve a purpose....just not one that you would appreciate.


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## jar546 (Aug 29, 2019)

ICE said:


> Did I tell you that it was on a Tuesday?  A guy that can't think outside the box is no better than the jackass you describe.  Not everything has been preordained so that you don't have to think about it......just do it like this because that's how you read the code ...that is short sighted....lazy.
> 
> I discuss things with a phalanx of engineers.  I ask them questions when I see something that is not spelled out in code or manufacturers installation instructions.  Because of my inquisitive nature I have caused UL listings to evaporate.  I have been asked by UL, ETL, etc to participate on Standard making panels.  Why is that?  It is because I found problems without answers.....violations with no code to match.  I have played a significant role in shaping segments of the industry.
> 
> ...



So the fact that split bolts are not listed or labeled for use on the armor is OK? and to tell him to redo what is already not in the code is OK?  I would love to see the justification for this other than a phone conversation, especially for a GEC system and products already tested and listed under UL467.  Why not just tell him the unnecessary split bolts are in violation of 110.3(B) and to just remove them and the extra clamp, save money and pass the inspection?  But you'd rather show how smart you are by telling to to change the location of the split bolts to another location they are in violation?


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## chris kennedy (Aug 29, 2019)

You boys play nice now


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## ICE (Aug 30, 2019)

jar546 said:


> So the fact that split bolts are not listed or labeled for use on the armor is OK? and to tell him to redo what is already not in the code is OK?  I would love to see the justification for this other than a phone conversation, especially for a GEC system and products already tested and listed under UL467.  Why not just tell him the unnecessary split bolts are in violation of 110.3(B) and to *just remove them and the extra clamp, save money and pass the inspection*?  But you'd rather show how smart you are by telling to to change the location of the split bolts to another location they are in violation?



250.62(E)(1) General. Ferrous metal raceways and enclosures for grounding electrode conductors shall be electrically continuous from the point of attachment to cabinets or equipment to the grounding electrode and shall be securely fastened to the ground clamp or fitting. Ferrous metal raceways and enclosures shall be bonded at each end of the raceway or enclosure to the grounding electrode.

Apparently you don't think straight when you're flustered.


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## jar546 (Aug 30, 2019)

ICE said:


> 250.62(E)(1) General. Ferrous metal raceways and enclosures for grounding electrode conductors shall be electrically continuous from the point of attachment to cabinets or equipment to the grounding electrode and shall be securely fastened to the ground clamp or fitting. Ferrous metal raceways and enclosures shall be bonded at each end of the raceway or enclosure to the grounding electrode.
> 
> Apparently you don't think straight when you're flustered.



Oh I'm thinking straight.  Yeah, I'm aware of the bonded at both ends.  Not a problem if you use the correct clamp for the job.  In your case, you approved a clamp that is not listed for the job and had them add 1 or 2 (for the feed through) split bolts that are NOT listed for use to clamp on the armor of single conductor armored cable.  If you would have just had them put on the correct clamp, all of the unnecessary work and parts would have been avoided.  Instead you took a non-compliant installation and made it further non-compliant.

The clamp would look something like this and be listed for use with a single conductor armor cable listed under UL467.  One clamp for the armor and one screw for the conductor.


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## ICE (Aug 30, 2019)

Here you are in post #8:  "OK, they went above the code. Nice."

Then I told you that I had the clamps moved and you went off the rails.  It went from nice to a dastardly dead.

The homeowner that did the work received plenty of corrections.  I could have made him replace the armored #4 because he used the wrong clamps.  Or did he?  Looking at the clamp with the strap; I see that his acorns provide a larger contact area.  Having seen a thousand clamps I am aware that the armor comes detached with regularity.  I doubt that the acorns will loosen.

You mentioned the added expense before you said just remove the acorns and call it good.  I didn't add anything...what you see is the way I found it.... but had I asked him to do the work over with what you think is the only option.......well then all of the armor would be too short.  It would be worthless spider habitat in a junk pile.  He would have a story about an inspector that made him replace stout clamps for what isn't.  He would lament the waste of all that material....alllllll the way back to the panel.

Yes I hear you...so what....he has a story.....lots of people do.  The difference here is that he would be telling the truth. I have a reputation as tough but fair.  I don't cut many corners nor do I slam their foreheads into those corners.

I decided that if the clamps are moved it will approximate the real deal to such a degree as to be a push......  knowing that the clamps are there for the one time occurrence of a utility failure. The clamps will perform, and the owner has nothing to be concerned about.


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## fatboy (Aug 31, 2019)

ICE, I may not always agree with your methods, but I hope you are not picking up your toys and going home. 

I think you usually enjoy a bit of sparring......


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## ICE (Sep 1, 2019)

fatboy said:


> ICE, I may not always agree with your methods, but I hope you are not picking up your toys and going home.
> 
> I think you usually enjoy a bit of sparring......



 I'll be around.


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