# Vacant House - Right of Entry Question



## Alias (Jul 26, 2010)

Returned after three days off to a Code Enforcement issue. Local police officer was called to a home here in town that is vacant because of trespass issues. He entered home, removed a transient/squatter, and locked up the house. He talked to me this AM and wanted me to condemn the house. I informed him that without consent from the property owner/tenant, I had no legal right to enter the home without a warrant. My question is, how do you get a warrant to obtain access to property? Or do I really want to go there? This house has been an eyesore for years, 15 that I know of, but has been continuously occupied with no complaints. I'm attaching a couple of photos.  I just love the roofing job. : ) Sue, devoid of pithy comments

View attachment 1374


View attachment 1375


View attachment 1376


View attachment 1374


View attachment 1375


View attachment 1376


/monthly_2010_07/572953dccf007_pictures005..jpg.1a29ee10de2316047c0ee92de5612116.jpg

/monthly_2010_07/572953dcd13af_pictures004..jpg.767c09bc684771c5ae00214a7319e0be.jpg

/monthly_2010_07/572953dcd397e_pictures006..jpg.f4e5fe24278ab68fd05ef59d4c777b39.jpg


----------



## fatboy (Jul 26, 2010)

I have a standard "nasty-gram" that I send out when the PD asks me to board something. (adopted the PM code) Give the owner of record a couple weeks to secure, if they don't, the city boards it, and liens the property for the costs. PM me if you would like the boilerplate letter. I gave up fighting it, if it's a nuisance, board it up.

EDIT: I don't even go in the property, if the owner does not secure, I have PD walk it, then I board it, no entry issues.


----------



## peach (Jul 26, 2010)

I like fatboys first thought.. send them a certified letter and give them time to abate the nuisance. After that, you need to go there (with the PD).. and a warrant. Judges will look at the pictures and grant the warrant.

IF they answer the certified letter, you may be in for a longer haul, but you'll still be able to tear it down.. just more paperwork.  OH, and ask the judge to assess ALL costs to abate the problem against the property owner.


----------



## mtlogcabin (Jul 26, 2010)

Our attorney was just looking into this and found that under Montana law warrants are for search and seisure. There is no provision for an inspection warrant. Not sure if it is something we can write locally if not authorized by the state,


----------



## JBI (Jul 26, 2010)

Your authority and jurisdiction should be spelled out in local law. If all you have is the PMC and the FC, consult with your municipal attorney. Condemnation can be tricky, depending on your local laws, but often 'open and accessible to children and/or vagrants' will be grounds to declare a property unsafe and obtain an order from a court to abate by demolition. Always notify owner of record by certified (registered where required) / return receipt.

Edit: mtlog - The 'search' is the inspection, the 'seizure' is the order to demolish and remove...


----------



## Daddy-0- (Jul 26, 2010)

If you have the P.M. code in your jurisdiction you can use the unsafe structure section to have the property secured and if necessary removed. NEVER enter a building like this without consent of the owner or lessee if available. You can address all of the issues involved with unsafe structure from the outside. Remember that a property that is vacant AND unsecured is deemed unsafe by the code. If you enter you will have violated the 4th amendment and all bets are off. If you have not adopted the maintenance code you are probably out of luck. Also check the zoning of the property. If it is ag. you have a harder path to navigate. Finally, if you secure it yourself you put the liability on the municipalities shoulders. Always use a private contractor and lien the property for expenses. Good luck.


----------



## Daddy-0- (Jul 26, 2010)

Sue,

Sorry to ramble. As a code official you can enter a property to investigate an unsafe structure complaint. Use your judgement if the property is posted. We typically follow the path that the UPS man takes when leaving a package. Anything you can see from the public right of way is fair game. This goes for pictures as well. Make sure that the Municipal attorney clarifies any local policies and forge ahead.


----------



## Alias (Jul 27, 2010)

mtlogcabin -

PD was not happy when I explained that I just couldn't do a walk through without the owner's consent.

I took a few photos from the street and talked to a neighbor who will call PD if he sees activity (security guard at the local casino).

Sue, cleaning up the frontier one property at a time.............


----------



## Alias (Jul 27, 2010)

Daddy-0- said:
			
		

> Sue, Sorry to ramble. As a code official you can enter a property to investigate an unsafe structure complaint. Use your judgement if the property is posted. We typically follow the path that the UPS man takes when leaving a package. Anything you can see from the public right of way is fair game. This goes for pictures as well. Make sure that the Municipal attorney clarifies any local policies and forge ahead.


Daddy-O -

Ramble away, I don't mind.   

As to entry, unless I am invited onto the property by the tenant or owner, I stay in the street or in the alley, public ROW.  I can get this one for the roof, or, should I say inadequate weather protection?  Picture doesn't show it well but most of the roofing has been ripped off and someone tried to patch it with black plastic.

This is not the only 'distressed property' in town.  I have the house that burned down with the owner inside, no insurance and no relatives to handle the clean-up.  Plus two more that are boarded up permanently.  I am sure there will be more due to foreclosures.

Sue

Sue,


----------



## Alias (Jul 27, 2010)

Peach -

City ran a nuisance abatement against a local hoarder here under the city's nuisance abatement ordinance in '07. Owners were charged for entire cost of clean-up and they did pay it.  I plan to pick the city attorney's brain on protocol for property liens as I see at least one property will be going this route.

Sue, nasty grams R us...............


----------



## Alias (Jul 27, 2010)

JBI said:
			
		

> Your authority and jurisdiction should be spelled out in local law. If all you have is the PMC and the FC, consult with your municipal attorney. Condemnation can be tricky, depending on your local laws, but often 'open and accessible to children and/or vagrants' will be grounds to declare a property unsafe and obtain an order from a court to abate by demolition. Always notify owner of record by certified (registered where required) / return receipt.


I'm not in my office right now but the CA Health & Safety Code gives me ammo that the other codes don't.  When I do a condemnation, I use the IPMC, City Code, and the H&S Code.  I call it a triple whammy.  If it is a fire hazard, I notify the FM.  If there is an enviro health issue, I grab the county sanitarian.

As to notification, I have gone overboard - certified return receipt, hand delivered (if necessary) with an escort from PD, and posting the property.

I have never gotten to the 'lien the property' stage but this is looming on the horizon.

Thanks for the input.

Sue


----------



## vegas paul (Jul 27, 2010)

Ask your city/county attorney about an "administrative search warrant".  That's what we use, and they are easy to get here.


----------



## jim baird (Jul 27, 2010)

As others have said, your local admin process should cover this.  See ours pasted below (largely copied from a state-generated model):

2.2 Right of Entry

2.2.1 Whenever necessary to make an inspection to enforce any of the provisions of the

Construction codes, or whenever the Building Official has reasonable cause to believe

that there exists in any building or upon any premises any condition or code violation

which makes such building, structure, premises, electrical, gas, mechanical or

plumbing systems unsafe, dangerous or hazardous, the Building Official may enter

such building, structure or premises at all reasonable times to inspect the same or to

perform any duty imposed upon the Building Official by these construction codes,

provided that if such building or premises is occupied, he shall first present proper

credentials and request entry. If such building, structure, or premises is unoccupied, he

shall first make a reasonable effort to locate the owner or other persons having charge

or control of such and request entry. If entry is refused, the Building Official shall have

recourse to every remedy provided by law to secure entry.

2.2.2 When the Building Official shall have first obtained a proper inspection warrant or other

remedy provided by law to secure entry, no owner or occupant or any other persons

having charge, care or control of any building, structure, or premises shall fail or

neglect, after proper request is made as herein provided, to promptly permit entry

therein by the Building Official for the purpose of inspection and examination pursuant

to the construction codes.


----------



## Mule (Jul 27, 2010)

I have a bit of experience in this area. Razed approximately eighty to one hundred residential structures over a period of fifteen years. As others have said, go by your local ordinance. If no local ordinance then go by the State requirements.

In Texas there are procedures that MUST be followed. Our local ordinance is based on the State requirements. As far as investigating or entering onto the property our attorney was very specific on when we could enter onto the property. If a gate is open, as a code official we could go through that gate. If the gate was latched/closed then no entry. If a front door is open, it was okay to walk in. Front door closed, no entry. Now this was our attorney that backed us on this. Never lost a case. I know there are others that will say.... whoa don't go inside without a search warrant....which I agree however our city attorney was the one who said he could defend our actions...so we did.

Follow the procedures as specified and you will be okay.


----------



## cda (Jul 27, 2010)

we use administrative warrant as pv does


----------



## Alias (Jul 27, 2010)

Thanks all for the good information.  Administrative warrant seems to be the way to go if I have no response from owner.

I have done a lot of nuisance abatements (weeds, junk, etc.) but have never done one for just a dilapidated vacant house.

Sue, devoid of pithy comments


----------



## fatboy (Jul 27, 2010)

I had one torn down a month ago in a forced abatment, about 1200 s.f. Damn shame that the owner didn't maintain it. Will end up with a little less than $20K lien against the property.


----------



## FredK (Jul 27, 2010)

Sue, another person handles abatement of buildings.  He has approached the city manager for funds for demo a building(s).  They set aside about 10K for dumpsters, bulldozer and for asbestos testing if required.

All that is done after all legal steps are done but mostly by explaining the facts to the owners they will agree to let the city help them tear down the place.  Mostly it's less than a 2k investment and sometimes there would be a lien or the property depending on the agreement between the city and property owners.

The city feels it's a win-win for a small investment.

BTW I moved into a small logging town in Oregon back in the 70's.  They went through a town and found that there were about 80-90 derlict homes.  Send the BO out to find out who owned them and between the city and county about 60-70 were theirs for back taxes.  The rest gave them so much time to apply for a permit and then it was ordered torn down if not fixed.  Fire dept had some practice burning.  Only one stubborn old guy kept moving title to his son and back until the judge had enough and ordered it fix or demo'd. The rest complied or they had them torn down.


----------



## Pcinspector1 (Jul 28, 2010)

Our city ordinance spells it out but as some has stated, do not enter premise when all possible, take lots of pictures to prove the building meets the criteria. Like the idea of standing in the ROW or easement if pictures taken tell the story. One city I worked for, ordinance said if the building has an open window it can be sited as a dangerous building, a little week I know but open is open to childeren and vagrants.


----------



## peach (Jul 29, 2010)

Ya know... if the neighbors are complaining, they will gladly invite you to take pictures from their house.


----------



## Daddy-0- (Jul 31, 2010)

Open window=unsecured. Vacant+unsecured=unsafe structure as defined in the P.M. code.


----------



## peach (Jul 31, 2010)

board it up if you want.. just don't go inside.

Without a warrant or eminent danger.


----------



## CornFieldCode (Aug 2, 2010)

We have a Vacant Building Registration ordinance that requires owners of vacant buildings to forward owner, responsible party, insurance and mortgage information.  It has been fairly successfull.  The Village also recieve a fee of $200.00 to process this, inspect and to notify the responsible party if needed.  If you want a copy write me at jswedberg@villageofgilberts.com.


----------



## beach (Aug 2, 2010)

Hey Sue,

Does your fire dept. have a weed abatement program? Maybe they can handle the weed portion for you?


----------



## peach (Aug 2, 2010)

Hi Corn,

If a homeowner slips out in the middle of the night to avoid being served their foreclosure notice.. what makes you think they'd register that the property is vacant? and pay $200 to do it?

Eventually, the bank will register it, but that'll be months down the road.


----------



## BSSTG (Aug 12, 2010)

a little late here. administrative warrant here in Tx. probable cause requirements very lenient. getting one next week to enter a fenced in dump. I know they are common in some other states as well.

BS


----------



## gvictor (Aug 14, 2010)

The 2009 fire code states:

110.1.1 Unsafe conditions. Structures or existing equipment

that are or hereafter become unsafe or deficient

because of inadequate means of egress or which constitute a

fire hazard, or are otherwise dangerous to human life or the

public welfare, or which involve illegal or improper occupancy

or inadequate maintenance, shall be deemed an

unsafe condition. A vacant structure which is not secured

against unauthorized entry as required by Section 311 shall

be deemed unsafe.

Bringing in the Fire Marshal on these issues could help.

Greg


----------



## peach (Aug 14, 2010)

Deeming it unsafe does not necessarily give you the right to go in.


----------



## fatboy (Aug 15, 2010)

After the required notification by Section 107, we will access the property with the PD, prior to securing it. Make sure we aren't boarding anybody in there, and that the workers safety in ensured.


----------



## gvictor (Aug 16, 2010)

peach said:
			
		

> Deeming it unsafe does not necessarily give you the right to go in.


That's true, but it will get it boarded up (maybe dependign on local laws)  One should make sure there are no people or animals inside before boarding up.


----------



## Alias (Aug 16, 2010)

beach said:
			
		

> Hey Sue, Does your fire dept. have a weed abatement program? Maybe they can handle the weed portion for you?


beach -

Yes, and we work some of these together, depending on what the violation is, weed, building, etc.

Sue


----------



## Uncle Bob (Aug 23, 2010)

I've seen a lot of delapidated houses that would be good practice for the Fire Department.

Uncle Bob


----------



## Daddy-0- (Aug 27, 2010)

I have seen next of kin walk away because it was cheaper than trying to track down the other relatives and getting them to sign away their rights.


----------



## peach (Aug 29, 2010)

Some times the FD will use these buildings for practice (but they usually require a certain amount of abatement first).  The jurisdiction still needs to have the title to the property (or permission from the court) to demolish the building.

Next of kin walk away because they don't want to pay the fines on the property... generally has nothing to do with rights (it was their obligation to maintain the property).


----------



## CornFieldCode (Sep 2, 2010)

Our Village has adopted a Vacant Building Registration ordinance that requires contact information on building vacany for more than 180 days.  It has had very good results.  And communities from many States have asked for copies of the ordinance.


----------



## CornFieldCode (Sep 2, 2010)

It is usualy the mortgage holder or maintenance company of the mortgage holder that registers the vacant building.  The owner or former owner is rarely envolved at that time.


----------



## Alias (Sep 7, 2010)

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> I've seen a lot of delapidated houses that would be good practice for the Fire Department.Uncle Bob


UB -

Our volunteer fire dept. loves to do practice burns.  

The house is now boarded up. I was out shopping the end of season sale at the local nursery this weekend and talked to the owner's son. He thinks that burning it down is a grand idea. I gave him the FM's phone number. So, now it is wait and see what happens.

Sue, where fall has arrived..............


----------



## CornFieldCode (Sep 22, 2010)

Peach,

The registration is not perfect and yes, sometimes it takes a little work.  But of the 65 or so that are under some kind of foreclosure and/or vacant, I know who to call on over 50 of them.  And $10,000.00 to boot.  What-do-u-got?


----------



## peach (Sep 22, 2010)

Around here, house flippers pick them up for a steal from the bank, and well... flip them... sometimes they get stung.  Had another one today.


----------

