# Stairs vs Means of Egress Stairs



## Jim B (Mar 31, 2014)

I am dealing with a project under the IBC 2009

My question is, are ALL stairs required to comply with Chapter 10 or only mean of egress stairs?

It seems that whens something is specific to a “means of egress" components, it is specified in that section. For example, doors specific “means of egress doors” or ramps specify “ramps used for components of means of egress”.

Stair section in IBC 2009; 1009 never states means of egress stairs.


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## steveray (Mar 31, 2014)

If it is a stair...it goes under 1009....if it were allowed to be a ladder or something less than and they put something that looks more like a stairway in...I have no issue with not requiring full "stair" compliance...If that makes any sense...


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 31, 2014)

> My question is, are ALL stairs required to comply with Chapter 10


MEANS OF EGRESS. A continuous and unobstructed path of vertical and horizontal egress travel from any occupied portion of a building or structure to a public way . A means of egress consists of three separate and distinct parts: the exit access , the exit and the exit discharge .

1009 provides many exceptions for specific instances


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## fatboy (Mar 31, 2014)

I concur with the folks above, unless you can consider it otherwise, a stair is a stair..............must comply..........


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## RLGA (Mar 31, 2014)

That's why I like the 2012 IBC...they added the following in Section 1009.1: "Stairways serving occupied portions of a building shall comply with the requirements of this section."

There is no reference to stairs only used for means of egress.


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## steveray (Mar 31, 2014)

They should have just added language like they did in doors.......No?

1008.1 Doors. Means of egress doors shall meet the requirements of this section. Doors serving a means of egress system shall meet the requirements of this section and Section 1020.2. ********Doors provided for egress purposes in numbers greater than required by this code shall meet the requirements of this section.******


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## Francis Vineyard (Apr 1, 2014)

Isn't it correct that not all stairs are part of a required exit; for example exterior stairs that are not an exit component of a means of egress in accordance with section 1027 and equipment platforms although these stairs shall conform to section 1009?

By the way this project is not about a non-required stairway to an attic is it?


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## fatboy (Apr 1, 2014)

"unless you can consider it otherwise, a stair is a stair"

If other sections of code apply, go there, otherwise...........


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## Jim B (Apr 1, 2014)

Francis, no it's not about an attic stair.

RGLA, the info on the IBC 2012 seems to solidify my concept that not just "means of egress" shall comply

Thanks to all the replies


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## Jim B (Apr 1, 2014)

Sorry, RLGA...


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## RLGA (Apr 1, 2014)

No problem, Jim B.


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## kilitact (Apr 3, 2014)

This should settle the stairs to an unoccupied attic controversy.


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## fatboy (Apr 3, 2014)

Just have to stir the pot, right?;-)


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## Architect1281 (Apr 3, 2014)

Every step you take; every breath you take; someone's watching you.

When you are in a structure, building, edifice, room, space, compartment, you are within an element of the means of egress;

one element or another, common path, access, exit or discharge, so if you must move your body vertically or horizontally you must comply with the elements of chapter 10 until safely discharged.


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## ADAguy (Apr 4, 2014)

Just remember that if you are providing in excess of the required number of "anything" differentiating from required vs non-compliant extras may still be a slippery slope to traverse.


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## JBI (Apr 16, 2014)

(Biting my tongue...) :twisted:


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## ICE (Apr 17, 2014)

There was a time when chapter ten dealt with only the required means of egress.  The first sentence of chapter 10 made that clear.

I remember a case where a lady fell on steps leading from a business.  A crook...sorry about that, I meant a lawyer sued the business owner claiming that the steps did not comply with the code.  A guy named Marvin convinced a jury that because the exit and it's steps were not a required exit, there was no code that applied.  Marvin could be a bit of a whore that way.

Nobody, including Marvin, considered that as anything more than a loophole.


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## kilitact (Apr 17, 2014)

ICE said:
			
		

> There was a time when chapter ten dealt with only the required means of egress.  The first sentence of chapter 10 made that clear.  I remember a case where a lady fell on steps leading from a business.  A crook...sorry about that, I meant a lawyer sued the business owner claiming that the steps did not comply with the code.  A guy named Marvin convinced a jury that because the exit and it's steps were not a required exit, there was no code that applied.  Marvin could be a bit of a whore that way.
> 
> Nobody, including Marvin, considered that as anything more than a loophole.


I would consider code officials who require more than minimum code to be in a similar category.


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## ICE (Apr 17, 2014)

kilitact said:
			
		

> I would consider code officials who require more than minimum code to be in a similar category.


That's a first for me.



> Whore:
> 
> debase oneself by doing something for unworthy motives, typically to make money.


I don't do it for money.  Marvin did.


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## JBI (Apr 17, 2014)

... still biting my tongue... :roll:


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## rktect 1 (Apr 18, 2014)

Went through this a few years back.  Ended up calling ICC.  Sure enough any and all stairs fall under chapter 10 regardless.


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## kilitact (Apr 21, 2014)

rktect 1 said:
			
		

> Went through this a few years back.  Ended up calling ICC.  Sure enough any and all stairs fall under chapter 10 regardless.


Be interested in their current response (position) with the 2012 IBC change(s) to this section.


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