# Exterior Balcony Egress



## Elm Group (Nov 22, 2016)

I have an exterior balcony off of a 2nd floor lunch area in a school.  I realized that there is no egress when the building is locked up because the balcony is only accessed from the adjacent 2nd floor space (no exterior stairs).

I can't find where IBC addresses such a situation and I wonder what allows a hotel room balcony to be locked from the inside.  Does anyone know if this is allowed and where IBC addresses it?

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Ed


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## cda (Nov 22, 2016)

How many sq ft??


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## Elm Group (Nov 22, 2016)

It's a little over 2,000 sf.  It's about 12 feet wide and runs the length of a 170 foot long wall.


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## cda (Nov 22, 2016)

I should have asked what is it used for??

I would say some ahj look the other way, especially if say the hotel balcony is an assembly area!!

A possible is double swing door, with signage that they are to be unlocked when occupied.??


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## Elm Group (Nov 22, 2016)

Use is just outdoor break area off of the lunch area.  Occupant load wise it should be considered an assembly area which is not a problem, presently there are (3) doors from it into the building.  I should also say that the lunch area is really sort of a long common area also used as study and locker space with an open exit access stairway that exits directly thru the main entry vestibule at one end, and a horizontal exit at the other end.

The only problem is that those (3) doors need to be lockable from the outside to secure the building at night.  You would need a ladder to scale the balcony and get in, but still, unsecured if not lockable.


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## cda (Nov 22, 2016)

Just stick some fire alarm pull stations up there, if someone were ever to get locked on the balcony??

Building is not open to occupancy


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## steveray (Nov 23, 2016)

Elm Group said:


> It's a little over 2,000 sf.  It's about 12 feet wide and runs the length of a 170 foot long wall.



Doubt it could be locked in the direction of egress then....Maybe 1008 somewhere for door locks....


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## Elm Group (Nov 23, 2016)

I like the pull station idea.  We're going to try a mag-lock that will be open and operate like panic when the school is open and be locked at night.  Thanks for all of the comments!


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## cda (Nov 23, 2016)

Elm Group said:


> I like the pull station idea.  We're going to try a mag-lock that will be open and operate like panic when the school is open and be locked at night.  Thanks for all of the comments!




Getting lost on this!!

Post a simple floor plan?



""with an open exit access stairway that exits directly thru the main entry vestibule at one end, and a horizontal exit at the other end.""

1. If I am on the balcony sounds  like I can exit it, with no problem?

2. If yes to # 1, than sounds like I do not need to exit back into the building. So those doors should not be a problem.

I know I am missing something


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## Elm Group (Nov 23, 2016)

I can't figure out how to post a floor plan.  When I try using the image icon, it puts http in front of the file path.
You can exit the balcony, but only thru the building.  When the building is open, no problem.  But, when the building is locked at night there is no exit from the balcony.


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## Elm Group (Nov 23, 2016)

Picture a hotel room balcony only bigger.  Can you tell me how to insert a pdf or jpeg?


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## tbz (Nov 23, 2016)

Elm Group said:


> Picture a hotel room balcony only bigger.  Can you tell me how to insert a pdf or jpeg?


You need to have the picture sitting on a server with link access.

I am not sure how others do it, but I believe one of the sites like flicker, shutterfly you might even be able to use facebook, I really don't know because I park the photo's on my website in a directory called ACG for this forum and then just put in the http link to the photo parked there.

With youtube, they provide the code links under the posting under share, so I am guessing if you use a service like facebook or flicker they also will provide a share link for you to add.

I am not sure if this forum allows you to upload the file as an option.

Tom


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## cda (Nov 23, 2016)

Elm Group said:


> I can't figure out how to post a floor plan.  When I try using the image icon, it puts http in front of the file path.
> You can exit the balcony, but only thru the building.  When the building is open, no problem.  But, when the building is locked at night there is no exit from the balcony.



So is this inside the building;;

"""an open exit access stairway that exits directly thru the main entry vestibule at one end, and a horizontal exit at the other end.""


And will this be new construction ?? Versus existing condition


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## cda (Nov 23, 2016)

tbz said:


> You need to have the picture sitting on a server with link access.
> 
> I am not sure how others do it, but I believe one of the sites like flicker, shutterfly you might even be able to use facebook, I really don't know because I park the photo's on my website in a directory called ACG for this forum and then just put in the http link to the photo parked there.
> 
> ...




Might just have to be a

Sawhorse 

To post


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## cda (Nov 23, 2016)

Can take an iPhone picture and attach it

I know that works


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## Elm Group (Nov 23, 2016)

Waiting for the sawhorse payment to take effect .  Maybe Autodesk 360 sharing will work.


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## Elm Group (Nov 23, 2016)

The A360 link was a URL.  So, must need to be a Sawhorse.    I renewed that yesterday (haven't been on here for a few years) but I guess it's not immediate.


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## steveray (Nov 23, 2016)

What code edition?...




And look at 1008.1.9.3 for special exceptions....


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## Elm Group (Nov 23, 2016)

IBC 2015 - That section with exceptions (now 1010.1.9.3) has only one that could apply.  "Places of detention or restraint"  We'll just call it the "detention area" for kids that didn't do their homework .  Probably would make it an I Occupancy though.  I still wonder how hotel room balconies meet code.


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## steveray (Nov 28, 2016)

4. Doors from individual dwelling or sleeping units
of Group R occupancies having an occupant load
of 10 or less are permitted to be equipped with a
night latch, dead bolt or security chain, provided
such devices are openable from the inside without
the use of a key or tool.

Although it probably should read "egress side"....not inside, but technically that works for the hotels...


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## RLGA (Dec 1, 2016)

It seems this is an issue of security versus safety. Outdoor spaces that are required to egress through the building are required to be provided with means of egress as required by Chapter 10 (Section 1004.5, 2015 IBC). Thus, exit access doorways that swing in the direction of egress travel with panic hardware is required. Subparagraph 2 of Section 1010.1.9.3 would seem to apply in this case (Group A, less than 300, with the appropriate sign stating "THIS DOOR TO REMAIN UNLOCKED..." etc.), but the location of the lock on the egress side would make no sense in this case.

Section 104.11 of the IBC can be used to obtain approval that would allow the location of the lock on the interior side (non-egress side) of the doorway.


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