# Exisitng Church & ADA requirements



## Scott_R (Jan 31, 2013)

I know there have been other posts and discussions on ADA requirements and church buildings when doing an addition or alteration - but my question is more basic. The church I belong to is expanding their campus and acquired another existing church in a different location. They intend to do "cosmetic cleanup" to the building (i.e. - paint, new chairs, AV system for music, landscaping, signage). NO structural changes or modifications to the design or plan of the building.

In a situation like this, the church wants to implement ADA ramps & bathrooms, etc over a phased in plan/time - just not right away (to raise funds first). If nothing is changing except ownership, nothing is needed for permits, is there a requirement to implement ADA conforming items such as an exterior ramp, accessible bathrooms, etc if no modifications are being done other than painting and AV equipment??

This is in the state of Illinois (IAC - Illinois accessibility Code in force)

Thanks in advance...

Scott


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## Builder Bob (Feb 1, 2013)

Scott - Talk to the locals as Illinois may have oddball quirks in their state law. It usually works better when a game plan is discussed ahead of time with code officials, they often tend to be more lenient and understanding.


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## steveray (Feb 1, 2013)

ADA does not apply to churhes that I am aware of.....but someone else will chime in on that......

The building code will and these are a couple of relavant and important sections on the 2009 edition

3411.6 Alterations. A building, facility or element that is altered shall comply with the applicable provisions in Chapter 11 of this code and ICC A117.1, unless technically infeasible. Where compliance with this section is technically infeasible, the alteration shall provide access to the maximum extent technically feasible.

Exceptions:

1. The altered element or space is not required to be on an accessible route, unless required by Section 3411.7.

2. Accessible means of egress required by Chapter 10 are not required to be provided in existing buildings and facilities.

3. The alteration to Type A individually owned dwelling units within a Group R-2 occupancy shall meet the provision for a Type B dwelling unit and shall comply with the applicable provisions in Chapter 11 and ICC A117.1.

3411.7 Alterations affecting an area containing a primary function. Where an alteration affects the accessibility to, or contains an area of primary function, the route to the primary function area shall be accessible. The accessible route to the primary function area shall include toilet facilities or drinking fountains serving the area of primary function.

Exceptions:

1. The costs of providing the accessible route are not required to exceed 20 percent of the costs of the alterations affecting the area of primary function.

2. This provision does not apply to alterations limited solely to windows, hardware, operating controls, electrical outlets and signs.

3. This provision does not apply to alterations limited solely to mechanical systems, electrical systems, installation or alteration of fire protection systems and abatement of hazardous materials.

4. This provision does not apply to alterations undertaken for the primary purpose of increasing the accessibility of an existing building, facility or element.

Installing AV equip would probably drive an assistive listening system.....


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## north star (Feb 1, 2013)

*~ ~ ~ ~*

Scott_R,

There are a few discussions in this Forum' archives that we have had

regarding the ADA / Accessibility & places of worship......Here is one:

*http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/accessibility/4399-house-worship-ada.html*

To look at more of the archived dicussions, you will have to do a

Search Function.

*~ ~ ~ ~*


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## Yikes (Feb 4, 2013)

I would add that some non-traditional churches these days are meeting in storefronts or spaces that are shared with other commercial facilities.  While this would not compel your own space to meet ADA, you may find that if you have facilities (such as parking, sidewalks, etc.) shared with other commercial uses on the same lot, your renovations may compel their use of those shared spaces to comply.


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## mychaelp (Mar 8, 2013)

ADA was required when I worked on Harvest Christian Fellowship in Riverside, CA. But unless you are getting a permit for work being done, I don't see why you'd need to do any ADA improvements. Check with the City to be certain. Each City these days is making their own new rules it seems to get income.


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## mark handler (Mar 8, 2013)

mychaelp said:
			
		

> ADA was required when I worked on Harvest Christian Fellowship in Riverside, CA. But unless you are getting a permit for work being done, I don't see why you'd need to do any ADA improvements. Check with the City to be certain. Each City these days is making their own new rules it seems to get income.


mychaelp

Churches are always exempt from the ADA, unless they rent out space or provide services to non-members

Churches are not exempt from CA state accessibility codes

Churches want to do access upgrades because they want to attract new, and keep existing, members

Not being accessible is like putting up an unwelcome sign ....


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## mychaelp (Mar 19, 2013)

mark handler said:
			
		

> mychaelpChurches are always exempt from the ADA, unless they rent out space or provide services to non-members
> 
> Churches are not exempt from CA state accessibility codes
> 
> ...


Very few Churches would be exempt from how I view it. Even a delivery person would require accessibility per the ADA itself. I would make everything ADA compliant without exception as in the past I've seen my competition be sued from former clients for non-compliance even though the building and safety division in the city allowed exceptions. It is just part of the design for me now. If we think about it during our design phase, we can make it work and become more seamless within it.

Just my 2 cents.   Thank you for your comment however.


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## mark handler (Mar 19, 2013)

Does not matter how "you view it"....Churches are always exempt from the ADA

Are new Churches accessible in CA, yes, Churches are not exempt from CA state accessibility codes


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## peach (Mar 19, 2013)

ADA isn't the same as building code compliance.


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## Builder Bob (Mar 20, 2013)

Never figured out why an entity that deals with a larger segment of the older generation would be exempt from the very thing that would allow people the opportunity to participate for a longer time with safer, permanent facilities...... than homemade portable ramps.... just saying.


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## mark handler (Mar 20, 2013)

Builder Bob said:
			
		

> Never figured out why an entity that deals with a larger segment of the older generation would be exempt from the very thing that would allow people the opportunity to participate for a longer time with safer, permanent facilities...... than homemade portable ramps.... just saying.


Another attempt at trying to show some attempt of separation of Church and State. Supposedly churches lack the funds. ever wonder why Congress exempts themselves from most laws. ?...just saying.....


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## Paul Sweet (Mar 20, 2013)

ADA is based on the 1964 Civil Rights Act.  This act exempted churches and private clubs, so they are also exempt under ADA.  As several people pointed out, they are NOT exempt from building code accessibility requirements.

All that this exemption from ADA means is that ADA can't be used as a basis for suing them for having non-accessible features, or for requiring them to correct these features in existing buildings.


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