# Alcove at Urinal - California 2016 CBC?



## JPohling (May 2, 2017)

Code section 11B-305.7.  trying to understand if we need 36" between urinal screens if the alcove only extends more than 24" on only one side.  Other side is less than 24" in depth.  my interpretation is that 30" width would be allowed unless both sides of alcove exceed 24" in depth.  What are your thoughts?


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## mark handler (May 2, 2017)

JPohling said:


> Code section 11B-305.7.  trying to understand if we need 36" between urinal screens if the alcove only extends more than 24" on only one side.  Other side is less than 24" in depth.  my interpretation is that 30" width would be allowed unless both sides of alcove exceed 24" in depth.  What are your thoughts?


I agree the space shall be 36 inches wide minimum where the depth exceeds 24 inches, and the minimum width is 24 inches,


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## JPohling (May 2, 2017)

Mark,  I am not understanding your answer?  If there is a partiton on one side of alcove that extends beyond 24", but the other side of alcove has a partition that is less than 24" would the 36" width be required?  or 30" is OK?  When you say minimum width is 24", that is confusing to me.


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## ADAguy (May 2, 2017)

Anything less than 36" when allowed is "bad" design. People are wider than ever and not getting smaller. One side deeper than another apparently has not been taken into consideration but if the longer side is the start of a series of urinals it would still be better to begin with a 36" before using 30", just my opinion.


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## JPohling (May 2, 2017)

This is a condition where our plans do indicate 36" in width.  Subsequent Access Survey measurement is less than 36".  Access survey note says "The urinal alcove is more than 24" deep on at least one side and is less than 36"".  I believe the alcove needs to be 24" or more on both sides to require the 36" clear dimension.  That is what I am trying to get clarification on.   Without two side walls/partitions you do not even have a "alcove".


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## steveray (May 3, 2017)

Wall on one side screen on the other = alcove?...That's what I would think...


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## mark handler (May 3, 2017)

JPohling said:


> Mark,  I am not understanding your answer?  If there is a partiton on one side of alcove that extends beyond 24", but the other side of alcove has a partition that is less than 24" would the 36" width be required?  or 30" is OK?  When you say minimum width is 24", that is confusing to me.


In my opinion, if any portion of the partition is greater than 24 inches, the width should be 36 inches.


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## ADAguy (May 3, 2017)

Agreed Mark, however if no screens it becomes an unregulated "performance/best practices issue"


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## mark handler (May 3, 2017)

ADAguy said:


> Agreed Mark, however if no screens it becomes an unregulated "performance/best practices issue"


"performance/best practices issue"; You mean piss on the floor and wall?


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## JPohling (May 3, 2017)

Still not clear to me.  Say you have a 30" deep screen on one side and a 10" screen on the other side.  You would require a 36" width between the screens?  That does not seem to be consistent with the alcove figure 11B-305.7.1


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## JPohling (May 3, 2017)

*Found this in the "United States Access Board"  Guide to the Standards.  "where the space is obstructed on both sides for more than half the depth" (of the 30x48 footprint)

Surface and Size [§305.2 and §305.3]*

Clear floor spaces must meet requirements for ground and floor surfaces, including criteria for firmness, stability, and slip resistance. They must be free of level changes and not slope more than 1:48.

The minimum size (30” by 48”) applies whether the space is positioned for forward or side approaches. Additional space is required when the space is confined on three sides and is obstructed for more than half the depth, such as when elements are recessed in alcoves.



*Approach and Maneuvering Clearance [§305.6 and §305.7]*

Where the space is obstructed on both sides for more than half the depth, additional clearance is required for maneuvering. Accessible routes must connect to the unobstructed side of the space.


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## ADAguy (May 3, 2017)

Nice catch, does that bring come clarity to your initial inquiry?

Yes Mark, or on your neighbors shoes, pant leg, etc. I tried to attach a very revealing photo of multiple urinals without panels in a corner condition but it won't accept it. Talk about shoulder to shoulder, it was one step above a WWII latrine.


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## JPohling (May 3, 2017)

Yes,  makes a lot of sense.........1/2 of the 48" = 24"  so that's how they came up with that dimension.  
And they indicate "on both" sides.  Not sure if it would hold up to attorney's but it is good enough for me.


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