# where in the IRC...



## darcar (Jul 6, 2011)

Where in the IRC does it address this picture?

This is an underside photo of an eyebrow on front of a garage. The short rafters but up against the OSB of the exterior of the dwelling (do not carry thru) and they have attached a bottom support to every other rafter (48" O.C.) again nailed right to the OSB.

My issue is that here in Iowa we have a pretty good snow load (30psf) and snow could/would sag where not supported in a short time.

Also, should hangers or 2x support be available? This case the top and bottom rafters have studs supporting behind the OSB and are not resting solely on the sheathing.

Thanks


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## darcar (Jul 6, 2011)

sorry forgot the attachment


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## darcar (Jul 6, 2011)

gggrrrr...  again!!!

View attachment 451


View attachment 451


/monthly_2011_07/572953c0d9593_2126Probsteyebrow.jpg.f1222b4bdab4ddd54d19b5d97a57820b.jpg


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## mark handler (Jul 6, 2011)

2006 IRC Section R 802.10.1. 2.

Have them Verify that non-conventional roof framing members can withstand the loads imposed on them


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## steveray (Jul 6, 2011)

I do not think I understand...NOTHING carries through?  Roof plywood holds it up?


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## brudgers (Jul 6, 2011)

steveray said:
			
		

> I do not think I understand...NOTHING carries through?  Roof plywood holds it up?


Well isn't it called "structural sheathing?"

 If we make sure the tenants are of light build and             relatively sedentary and if the weather's on our side, I think we             have a winner here.


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## darcar (Jul 6, 2011)

YEAH its the first time ive seen anyone try and frame it without first applying a 2x on the sheathing. This might be a tear off and redo .


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## steveray (Jul 6, 2011)

Same reason a house stays up when a car drives through a bearing wall......not code compliant, but it might work....

Brudgers....reminds me of a story with an old timer coming in to the lumber yard on Monday after he shingled his garage over the weekend and all the shingles were on the ground in the morning....he was yelling and screaming...the clerk asked him how many nails he used...he said NAILS?...they say SELF SEALING!


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## mjesse (Jul 6, 2011)

Can you clarify a couple things for me;

1- Are we only talking about the horizontal members (soffit backing)

2- Do the rafters go through the sheeting and fasten to the wall framing?

If we're only looking at the soffit backers, I'm ok with it being toe-nailed to the wall.

If the rafters are only nailed to the sheeting, then there's a problem.

mj


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## NH09 (Jul 6, 2011)

I do not know of any specific section of the code that addresses this detail. Could he install some metal angles at the top of the rafters that connect to the house? (I assume the rafters do not carry through).


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## Pcinspector1 (Jul 6, 2011)

IMO the framing is incomplete if a soffit is being installed, not enough lookouts and or a freeze board is missing. With the electrican's light can installed maybe the framings complete? Check manufactures installation instructions on the soffit material, may need more framing.

Remind me not to buy in that part of town!

pc1


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## Mule (Jul 6, 2011)

mjesse said:
			
		

> Can you clarify a couple things for me;1- Are we only talking about the horizontal members (soffit backing)
> 
> 2- Do the rafters go through the sheeting and fasten to the wall framing?
> 
> ...


I feel the same way!


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## darcar (Jul 6, 2011)

mjesse said:
			
		

> Can you clarify a couple things for me;1- Are we only talking about the horizontal members (soffit backing)
> 
> 2- Do the rafters go through the sheeting and fasten to the wall framing?
> 
> ...


The rafters DO NOT carry through the wall, they are toe nailed but are toe nailed through into a stud behind sheathing.

I'm having the contractor add blocking between each rafter for sheathing support and add a nailer between each bottom rafter and add a bottom support for each rafter.

This isn't uncommon to see mono trusses in place but the truss manufacturer will req a nailer up top and a kicker board for the botton to seat on.


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## Mule (Jul 6, 2011)

Well if the sheathing continues past the ends of the wall on up a couple of feet then it will probably work. The weight pushing downward will be against the wall. If it were me I would have ran a band along the wall for the soffit joists to butt into. That way the weight won't push the finger joists through the sheathing! Of course I would have extended the rafters past the wall too... but that's just the framer in me!


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## brudgers (Jul 6, 2011)

darcar said:
			
		

> The rafters DO NOT carry through the wall, they are toe nailed but are toe nailed through into a stud behind sheathing.I'm having the contractor add blocking between each rafter for sheathing support and add a nailer between each bottom rafter and add a bottom support for each rafter.
> 
> This isn't uncommon to see mono trusses in place but the truss manufacturer will req a nailer up top and a kicker board for the botton to seat on.


Those aren't rafters, then.

They are hinges.

Even with the blocking.

Doesn't come close to meeting code - overhangs have the highest uplift.


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## pwood (Jul 6, 2011)

i understand that pressure blocking works in these situations!


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## KZQuixote (Jul 6, 2011)

Hi darcar,

You did say eyebrow didn't you? Good term! The eyebrow carries the pitch of the truss tails across the gable condition of the trusses. If that's the case, the answer to Mule's question about the roof sheathing continuing up the pitch, is no it doesn't. If the rafter tails align with the studs in the wall as you say I'd cut slots along the sides of the plumb cuts on the tops of the tails with a sawsall and run a metal strap on each side of each rafter tail onto the faces of the studs behind the sheathing. Add another soffit joist so that every rafter tail has a soffit joist, add the same strapping technique for the joists as the raftertails.

And

The carpenter in me would be happy!

Bill


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## ICE (Jul 6, 2011)

If this is planted on a gable end, your best bet is to hope it will grow roots.  Sorry but I couldn't help myself.

You can utilize CS16 and a wedge shaped plywood gusset.  The gusset frame is flat 2x with plywood nailed and glued to it.  At all three corners, place an A35F on the bare side.  Mount the gusset and place two A35 {one low and one midspan} where the vertical part of the gusset meets the wall {place the gusset to the side of and next to the studs}  On the inside of the gable wall, lag a 2"x10" strong-back with the top lining up with a slot in the sheathing that will allow you to thread the CS.  Thread CS over the top of the strong-back, nail the CS to the gusset, [CS is on top of the sheathing] bend the CS and nail it to the face of the strong-back.  Nail the fascia to the gusset.  Spacing depends on the span rating of the roof sheathing.  Along with this, you would need to beef up the connection of the gable studs to the plate and barge rafter.  A35 will work at the bottom but I don't know how the barge connection has been done.  Before you replace the shingles, place rolled roofing between the straps to build it up or the straps will create visible humps in the shingles.

This is not code compliant because it is an engineered design provided to you by a non-engineer.  So to use this you would need an engineer or an inspector that understands that this is just a little eyebrow on a garage.  If I ran into it I would put three fat carpenters on it and see what happens.


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## Architect1281 (Jul 6, 2011)

Rafter or ceiling joist attachments in 612 fastening schedule

and whay is in the picture just aint described or available

nor is the min end bearing required for such pieces even attempted to be met.

ICE absolute LMAO Thanks for the image now burned in my brain or whats left of it?


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## brudgers (Jul 6, 2011)

ICE said:
			
		

> If I ran into it I would put three fat carpenters on it and see what happens.


Dunk them in anti-gravity paint first.

The issue ain't down - it's up.


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## ICE (Jul 6, 2011)

brudgers said:
			
		

> Dunk them in anti-gravity paint first.The issue ain't down - it's up.


Oh I think it is both.  It depends on where you are standing.  The A35s at the wall can take a large load and the triangle isn't going to change shape.  How about if he used sidewalk for soffit material.

But you are right.  I seldom think about uplift.  Of course I seldom need to.  If he knew what the force calcs out to, he could add A35s if need be.  It appears that there would be room for four.  But then an engineer might tell him that all of the reaction takes place at the bottom A35 and the others are window dressing.  Heck, I don't know enough to know what I don't know.  Thank goodness I know that much.


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## RJJ (Jul 7, 2011)

I quess it is a 2' over hang. Uplift is an issue. Hard to tell from photo, but it appear that the raftertails  are butted to the sheething. Not sure but I believe this needs more then paint.


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## mtlogcabin (Jul 7, 2011)

The fact you are in a 30lb snow load you shoul be doubling that load for the overhangs on the roof which Ii think you are. The problem I see and agree with brudgers is uplift.


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## righter101 (Jul 7, 2011)

Drill some large holes to allow the wind to pass right on thru!!!!

Problem solved.


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