# seasonally convertible pergola



## kobin (Jun 4, 2019)

Hi y'all, first post on the forum here.  I'm intending to build a pergola that's located on the back porch of my house, and it will be covered in the winter with greenhouse film and open the rest of the year. 

So I'm applying for the permit and the city told me that the structure must either be attached to the house or detached and set back at least 10 feet from the house.  (I'm located in North Texas, and the city uses the 2006 International Building Code.)

Now I would prefer not to attach the pergola to the single story house with a ledger board or anything since the roofline is very low (gutters are at 7 feet) and I don't want to tear up the shingles.  I simply want to be able to walk out of my back door onto a nice patio with a free standing pergola.  Then be able to cover the pergola when we get that random freeze.

A little detail on the pergola... it's a 4 post design made from cedar with a 12' x 18' footprint set back 2' from the house.  I'm planning on pouring a 4" slab with 3' deep piers at the corners for the posts.  Since it's cedar and there are no span tables for the lumber, I'm working with an engineer to make sure it meets the structural requirements when it's covered. 

I was thinking this project classifies as a patio cover, which means it can't be a habitable room, can be covered with 0.125" translucent plastic, etc.  What are the fire and setback requirements on this thing?

Thanks in advance...


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## cda (Jun 4, 2019)

Welcome


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## cda (Jun 4, 2019)

So do you want to put it against the house??/  not attached.

Ask the nice city for the code reference, where they get the ten feet away from the house 

Than post that section here.

As far as green housing it, do not label it a green house or mention the plastic 

Once built you may never plastic it, plus it does deep freeze in Texas and the plants cannot handle it


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## tmurray (Jun 4, 2019)

Sounds like a zoning requirement.


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## mtlogcabin (Jun 4, 2019)

2006 IBC requires a fire separation distance of 10 for non-rated buildings. However there is an exception for buildings on the same lot
503.1.2 Buildings on same lot.
Two or more buildings on the same lot shall be regulated as separate buildings or shall be considered as portions of one building if the height of each building and the aggregate area of buildings are within the limitations of Table 503 as modified by Sections 504 and 506. The provisions of this code applicable to the aggregate building shall be applicable to each building.

I am sure your house and pergola will easily meet the requirements of IBC 503.1.2


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## classicT (Jun 4, 2019)

I am thinking that this is a zoning requirement, not a building code requirement for fire separation.

You need to ask which it is.


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## kobin (Jun 4, 2019)

Yep sure enough it's a zoning requirement according to Zoning Ordinance Section 42 C:

https://www.grapevinetexas.gov/DocumentCenter/View/292/Section-42---Supplementary-Distrist?bidId=

"An accessory building attached to the main building shall be made structurally a part and have a common wall with the main building and shall comply in all respects with the requirements of this Ordinance applicable to the main building. Unless so attached, an accessory building in a residential district shall be located on the rear one-half of the lot and at least ten (10) feet from any dwelling or building existing or under construction on the same lot or any adjacent lot. In all residential districts, a building or structure attached to the principal building or structure by only a breezeway having a maximum width of six (6) feet shall be considered as being a detached accessory building or structure. No accessory building shall be located nearer than three (3) feet to any side or rear lot line. In the case of a corner lot, no accessory building shall be located within any side yard required on the street side. A garage, detached from the main building, may be located no nearer than six (6) feet to any rear lot line and shall be subject to the same side yard requirements as the principal structure."

Looks like they're classifying the pergola as an "accessory building".  

My current plans are to have the timber pergola 4.75" away from the house and constructed on a concrete patio (so yes against the house but not attached).  Physically attaching the timber structure to the house will be a pain since the eaves are so low I'd have to go into the brick or into the shingles.  Would defeat the purpose of a patio to move it 10' away, so that's not an option either.

Trying to understand how is this an accessory building and not a patio cover?


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## ADAguy (Jun 4, 2019)

Isn't there an exception for an open patio structure?


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## tmurray (Jun 4, 2019)

Zoning is a strange animal, filled with exceptions and inconsistencies...

Ask what the definition of "building" is. A pergola doesn't fit the definition of "building" most of the time. This is a "structure". All buildings are structures, but not all structures are buildings...


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## cda (Jun 4, 2019)

Well there is the problem

Grapevine Tx

How come this does not fall under IRC???


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## cda (Jun 4, 2019)

kobin said:


> Yep sure enough it's a zoning requirement according to Zoning Ordinance Section 42 C:
> 
> https://www.grapevinetexas.gov/DocumentCenter/View/292/Section-42---Supplementary-Distrist?bidId=
> 
> ...




Yep good question


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## cda (Jun 4, 2019)

Is this your out::


In all residential districts, a building or structure attached to the principal building or structure by only a breezeway having a maximum width of six (6) feet shall be considered as being a detached accessory building or structure

Do a one foot by four foot breezeway !!!!

Or similar dimensions 

Plus look around your neighbor hood and see how others have done it


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## tmurray (Jun 4, 2019)

cda said:


> Is this your out::
> 
> 
> In all residential districts, a building or structure attached to the principal building or structure by only a breezeway having a maximum width of six (6) feet shall be considered as being a detached accessory building or structure
> ...


If attached, it would need to be on a code compliant foundation, which this person might be trying to avoid.

What about a variance?


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## cda (Jun 4, 2019)

Make sure this is current


http://www.grapevinetexas.gov/DocumentCenter/View/354/Carport-Information?bidId=


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## cda (Jun 4, 2019)

Not sure which applies 


https://www.grapevinetexas.gov/154/Zoning-Ordinance


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## kobin (Jun 4, 2019)

cda said:


> Not sure which applies
> 
> 
> https://www.grapevinetexas.gov/154/Zoning-Ordinance



Section 42 G, part 3 of the Zoning Requirements (in the link above) states:

"Unenclosed covered patios used only for outdoor, recreational purposes and not as carports, garages, storage rooms, or habitable rooms in the "R-7.5", "R-12.5", "R-20", and the "R-TH" Districts may be located no closer than six (6) feet to any side yard property line nor closer than six (6) feet to the rear property line.  Unenclosed covered patios used only for outdoor, recreational purposes and not as carports, garages, storage rooms or habitable rooms in the "R-5.0" District may be located no closer  than  six  (6)  feet  to  the  rear  property  line and  shall  have  the  side  yard setbacks as required in Section 16.G.3.  Unenclosed covered patios constructed within the required twenty-five (25) foot rear yard setback of each district shall not be used as second story patios.  The height of an unenclosed patio cover shall not exceed  fifteen  (15)  feet.    The  height  of  an  unenclosed  patio  cover  shall  be measured from the finished first floor of the residence to the highest point of the roof's surface, if a flat surface, to the deck line of a mansard roof, and the main height  level  between  eaves  and  ridge  for  hip  and  gable  roofs.    In  the  case  of  a corner lot, patios shall be subject to the regular street side yard requirements of the district.  Openings may be enclosed with insect mesh screening or plastic that is readily removable translucent or transparent plastic not more than 0.125 inch in thickness."  

According to all this, the only setback requirements for an unenclosed patio are 6 feet to any side of the property for  "R-7.5", "R-12.5", "R-20", and the "R-TH" Districts.  Am I understanding this correctly?  The patio foundation does have engineered stamped drawings too, if that makes any difference.


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## cda (Jun 4, 2019)

If your house falls in that zoning area

Check a zoning map


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## kobin (Jun 4, 2019)

cda said:


> If your house falls in that zoning area
> 
> Check a zoning map



Good suggestion...my house is in a R-7.5 zone.


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## cda (Jun 4, 2019)

I do not see a ten foot requirement 

https://www.grapevinetexas.gov/DocumentCenter/View/261/Section-15---R75?bidId=

Suggest ask the city to cite what they are talking about

Than post that

Plus look around the neighborhood and see what the norm is


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## kobin (Jun 4, 2019)

I didn't see a 10 ft requirement either... I'll call the city tomorrow if I don't hear back via email.  

I asked some neighbors about their pergolas and they said 'we needed a permit?  Pretty sure the builder took care of that'

LOL


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## cda (Jun 4, 2019)

kobin said:


> I didn't see a 10 ft requirement either... I'll call the city tomorrow if I don't hear back via email.
> 
> I asked some neighbors about their pergolas and they said 'we needed a permit?  Pretty sure the builder took care of that'
> 
> LOL




Yep

Get hit by the load of paper,,, when you try to play by the book.

Ask if you fall under the international residential code and not IBC


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## kobin (Jun 6, 2019)

Finally heard back from the city:

"The Section 42 G 3. Of Zoning Ordinance is for projections in the required yard for attached unenclosed patio cover. The permit application and plans submitted
 are for enclosed detached pergola. As per Section 42C of Zoning Ordinance, detached accessory structure to be located on the rear one half of the lot, and at least 10’ from any other structure. This section also allows such structure to be 3’ from side and rear lot line."

So by this logic if I purchased a free standing pergola kit from Costco it would either need to be anchored to the house or set back 10 feet?


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## cda (Jun 6, 2019)

Resubmit the plans and state not enclosed

And show it next to the house ??


http://www.grapevinetexas.gov/DocumentCenter/View/354/Carport-Information?bidId=


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## cda (Jun 6, 2019)

Resubmit the plans and state not enclosed

And show it next to the house ??


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## classicT (Jun 6, 2019)

kobin said:


> Finally heard back from the city:
> 
> "The Section 42 G 3. Of Zoning Ordinance is for projections in the required yard for attached unenclosed patio cover. The permit application and plans submitted
> are for enclosed detached pergola. As per Section 42C of Zoning Ordinance, detached accessory structure to be located on the rear one half of the lot, and at least 10’ from any other structure. This section also allows such structure to be 3’ from side and rear lot line."
> ...


Yes...that does appear to be the zoning requirement.


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## kobin (Jun 6, 2019)

I have another email into the city asking which permit I need for an unenclosed patio located next to the house. Hopefully they'll respond sooner than 3 days. 

In Section 42 C of the Zoning Ordinance, it states: "An accessory building attached to the main building shall be made structurally a part and have a common wall with the main building and shall comply in all respects with the requirements of this Ordinance applicable to the main building. Unless so attached, an accessory building in a residential district shall be located on the rear one-half of the lot and at least ten (10) feet from any dwelling or building existing or under construction on the same lot or any adjacent lot." The next line states: "In all residential districts, a building or structure attached to the principal building or structure by only a breezeway having a maximum width of six (6) feet shall be considered as being a detached accessory building or structure."

How can an accessory building or structure attached by a breezeway of 6' or less be considered a detached structure when the line before it says that a detached structure must be at least 10' away from the principal building? This statement is contradictory and makes no sense to me.


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## cda (Jun 6, 2019)

Welcome to the wide wide world of gov/code speak.

Have you looked at this:::


http://www.grapevinetexas.gov/DocumentCenter/View/354/Carport-Information?bidId=


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## kobin (Jun 6, 2019)

cda said:


> Welcome to the wide wide world of gov/code speak.
> 
> Have you looked at this:::
> 
> ...



LOL great, no wonder the opposite of progress is congress. 

Thanks I did see the Residential Patio Requirements document. That's what I'm applying for: an unenclosed patio in the R 7.5 district that is covered with transparent plastic less than 0.125" thick. Not an enclosed patio.


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## cda (Jun 6, 2019)

I would leave off any note about plastic,

It is allowed, but noting it may muddy the lake.


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## kobin (Jun 6, 2019)

cda said:


> I would leave off any note about plastic,
> 
> It is allowed, but noting it may muddy the lake.



Good idea, "unenclosed" and "covered" in the same sentence does sound confusing.


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## tmurray (Jun 7, 2019)

kobin said:


> I have another email into the city asking which permit I need for an unenclosed patio located next to the house. Hopefully they'll respond sooner than 3 days.
> 
> In Section 42 C of the Zoning Ordinance, it states: "An accessory building attached to the main building shall be made structurally a part and have a common wall with the main building and shall comply in all respects with the requirements of this Ordinance applicable to the main building. Unless so attached, an accessory building in a residential district shall be located on the rear one-half of the lot and at least ten (10) feet from any dwelling or building existing or under construction on the same lot or any adjacent lot." The next line states: "In all residential districts, a building or structure attached to the principal building or structure by only a breezeway having a maximum width of six (6) feet shall be considered as being a detached accessory building or structure."
> 
> How can an accessory building or structure attached by a breezeway of 6' or less be considered a detached structure when the line before it says that a detached structure must be at least 10' away from the principal building? This statement is contradictory and makes no sense to me.



It is poorly written and would be better accompanied with a drawing. The breezway is a maximum of 6' wide. It can be any length, although to be compliant with he by-law, it would have to be at least 10' long. Obviously they would be considering the breezeway part of the main building, otherwise it would be a violation.

For what it's worth, we currently have the same 10' setback rule in our zoning by-law. We are removing it because no one can figure out why it is there.


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## my250r11 (Jun 7, 2019)

Yep, I argue this with zoning also, if you can have an attached structure in the set backs with no separation why can't you have an unattached structure. Same lot, residential all the same potential and even HUD & FHA usually require 3-5 ft.

personally does not matter to me, hoping to get it amended out.


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## kobin (Jun 26, 2019)

So 8 days after I submitted the third revision of this project to the city, they get back to me with this email:

"In reference to drawings submitted on June 17, provide required information in response to following comments:

Job description and use of structure mentioned on the permit application is for pergola/greenhouse. Clarify if the structure is attached or detached to the house on the application and is it patio cover or pergola. If it is unenclosed open pergola it shall comply with the Zoning Ordinance Section 42 C. If it is attached patio cover it shall comply with the Zoning Ordinance Section 42 G 3. The engineered plan shows Pergola, detail for pergola shows it is enclosed and covered.

The dimensions of the structure shall be consistence on the permit application, site plan and engineered drawings.

The structure shall be made structurally a part of the main building. Provide the engineer report stating that the structure is structurally  attached to the bearing member of the existing house. Provide attachment details of the structure to the hose soffit if soffit is bearing part of the house."

Would I be able to bolt into the bricks to have it be structurally a part of the house?  I'm not keen to go through the roof shingles.  Not sure how I would find a structural attachment under the soffits either.


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## cda (Jun 26, 2019)

Remove the word greenhouse !!!


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## ADAguy (Jun 26, 2019)

Semantics, always semantics


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## kobin (Jun 26, 2019)

cda said:


> Remove the word greenhouse !!!



Nowhere in the application or engineering drawings does it mention the word "greenhouse". Not sure where they're getting this from.


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## cda (Jun 26, 2019)

Than I would write in big letters not for greenhouse use


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