# Door threshold heights



## bszczepanski

First time caller. Big fan of the show. Question relates to section 1008.1.7 Thresholds of the 2009 IBC. The question is does the exception to section 1008.1.7 allow an exterior sliding glass door to have a threshold height of 7 3/4 inches, meaning the "floor" on both sides of the door being 7 3/4 inches below top of threshold. Let's assume for sake of conversation that all the requirements for the exception being utilized are being met. Any input would be greatly appreciated.


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## mark handler

In a residential unit,R2 and R3,  yes

But it is a tripping hazard


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## fatboy

Welcome to the Forum Neighbor!

If it meets the all parts of the exception, the threshold can be 7 3/4" above one side.

But having said that, what is your question?


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## Pcinspector1

Back up to code section 1008.1.5 Floor elevation. I don't think the code is allowing you to have a SHIP's door hatch set-up with both sides being 7-3/4"!

pc1


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## mark handler

1008.1.5 Floor elevation.*There shall be a floor or landing on each side of a door. Such floor or landing shall be at the same elevation on each side of the door. Landings shall be level except for exterior landings, which are permitted to have a slope not to exceed 0.25 unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent slope).*

Does not prohibited it. Floor level on each side


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## fatboy

The commentary (I know) goes on to say that the exception is to the threshold requirement, not the landing elevations.


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## mark handler

fatboy said:
			
		

> The commentary (I know) goes on to say that the exception is to the threshold requirement, not the landing elevations.


http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/ibc/2009f2cc/icod_ibc_2009f2cc_10_sec008.htm

Don't see it?


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## bszczepanski

Fatboy - Thanks. My question is does the exception allow for a "Ship's door" threshold like Pcinspector mentioned. Where does it state in the exception for threshold height of a patio door, with no door swing, that it can only be on one side up to 7 3/4 inch. Again this is not required means of egress door.


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## bszczepanski

Thanks all for the reply. I have always been under the impression that floor or landing required on the interior side at threshold height always. Looking even at sections R311.3.1 and R311.3.2. of the 2009 IRC is making me think otherwise now. Requirements for floor and landing elevations are different for required egress doors and other exterior doors.


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## fatboy

From the last line in the commentary, right before 1008.1.8;

The exception permits a 7 3/4-inch (197 mm) threshold at exterior doors for dwelling or sleeping units not required to be Accessible, Type A or Type B units. The terminology is consistent with Section 1008.1.5, Exception 3; however, this exception is to the threshold requirements, not the landing elevations.


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## conarb

bszczepanski said:
			
		

> Fatboy - Thanks. My question is does the exception allow for a "Ship's door" threshold like Pcinspector mentioned. Where does it state in the exception for threshold height of a patio door, with no door swing, that it can only be on one side up to 7 3/4 inch. Again this is not required means of egress door.


My take is that if you have 7¾" rises on both sides of a sliding door you have a sliding window, call it a window and no problem.


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## ICE

I agree with Mark.  I have seen some screwy threshold heights up to 3" with retrofits.


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## bszczepanski

Fatboy - With the commentary being stated, would you agree that a 7 3/4 inch threshold(Ship's Door Style) for a sliding patio door could be installed if all the restrictions are met in the exception to 1008.1.7? Never mind the obvious trip hazard this clearly would create, just going by the strict language of sections 1008.1.5 and 1008.1.7 - My take is section 1008.1.5 requires floor and landings to be at the same elevation on each side of door "only", with exceptions, then section 1008.1.7 tells you what that elevation can be. Feel free to let me know if this line of reasoning is not what the good authors of said code sections intended.


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## bszczepanski

conarb said:
			
		

> My take is that if you have 7¾" rises on both sides of a sliding door you have a sliding window, call it a window and no problem.


Brilliant!


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## ICE

1008.1.5 Floor elevation. There shall be a floor or landing

on each side of a door. Such floor or landing shall be at the

same elevation on each side of the door. Landings shall be

level except for exterior landings, which are permitted to

have a slope not to exceed 0.25 unit vertical in 12 units horizontal

(2-percent slope).

Exceptions:

1. Doors serving individual dwelling units in Groups

R-2 and R-3 where the following apply:

1.1. A door is permitted to open at the top step

of an interior flight of stairs, provided the

door does not swing over the top step.

1.2. Screen doors and storm doors are permitted

to swing over stairs or landings.

2. Exterior doors as provided for in Section 1003.5,

Exception 1, and Section 1020.2, which are not on

an accessible route.

3. In Group R-3 occupancies not required to be

adaptable or accessible, the landing at an exterior

doorway shall not be more than 7 3/4 inches (197

mm) below the top of the threshold, provided the

door, other than an exterior storm or screen door,

does not swing over the landing.

4. Variations in elevation due to differences in finish

materials, but not more than 1/2 inch (12.7 mm).

1008.1.7 Thresholds. Thresholds at doorways shall not

exceed 3/4 inch (19.1 mm) in height for sliding doors serving

dwelling units or 1/2 inch (12.7 mm) for other doors. Raised

thresholds and floor level changes greater than 1/4 inch (6.4

mm) at doorways shall be beveled with a slope not greater

than one unit vertical in two units horizontal (50-percent

slope).

Exception: The threshold height shall be limited to 7 3/4

inches (197 mm) where the occupancy is Group R-2 or

R-3; the door is an exterior door that is not a component

of the required means of egress; the door, other than an

exterior storm or screen door, does not swing over the

landing or step; and the doorway is not on an accessible

route as required by Chapter 11A or 11B and is not part

of an adaptable or accessible dwelling unit.


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## Pcinspector1

bsz,

I did see where it's allowed in residential to have both sides with a maximum height of 7.75 on both sides of a swinging door with a landing minimum. But you did say slider and yo are posting in the commercial area. FWIW

pc1


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## JBI

Sometimes it's not about what the Code allows or doesn't allow. Sometimes it's about what constitutes 'good' design versus 'bad' design.

IMHO, the OP is asking to legitimate a bad design with an imperfect Code.


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## bszczepanski

JBI said:
			
		

> Sometimes it's not about what the Code allows or doesn't allow. Sometimes it's about what constitutes 'good' design versus 'bad' design. IMHO, the OP is asking to legitimate a bad design with an imperfect Code.


Agreed that it is a bad design idea and an imperfect code. Unfortunately in my position, as some of you are aware, it is *required* to be about what the adopted code allows or doesn't allow. I wish I had the luxury of saying" bad design idea, can't do it" , but need to stand behind adopted codes and not perceived concept of "good design" or "bad design".


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