# What century is your building department in? (POLL)



## jar546

Choosing an answer is just as important, if not more important that the discussions themselves.  Please choose an answer before you post.  
I realize there are many variables of permitting software, some don't do inspections, some don't do plan review, some do it all.
Thank you!


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## fatboy

Great poll!


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## Rick18071

Our 3rd party company uses it own software for the administrative stuff. We use email to correspond to plan reviews. We have an app for inspections that is cool when it works right and when in a cell service area that sends out inspection reports by email. Otherwise everything is paper.


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## TheCommish

On my 3dr try to get to online permitting


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## steveray

We use the software for everything....It doesn't "perform" any of the functions per se, but it does automate/ facilitate some stuff...


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## JCraver

Our software issues, tracks, and sort-of schedules permits and inspections.  That's all it does.  Everything else is paper.


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## mtlogcabin

Our permitting software does not work automatically with the electronic plan review process. So yes everything is electronic however there are two separate systems, one for permitting and inspections and one for plan reviews


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## rktect 1

Option #3 if inspections are involved which option #4 suggests that it is.  Except that our current software blows donkey b@!!$ so lets make that Option #2.5 at best.


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## Pcinspector1

We use permitting software but not for all aspects of the permitting process​Plan review is done with paper plans and a big red marker, red pencil or red ink pen the way it was meant to be?

I've got a couple of "Men who Draw" complaining cuz of the cost to produce paper plans, "times they are changin', I think Bob said!


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## Sifu

We are 100% digital.  The problem is the knowledge base and human resource element to make it work is _lacking _(my attempt at being kind) It was just "turned on" one day and has a lot of issues.  There is a constant effort to fix things because the system was built very poorly and without attention to how it should work for an actual building department, by people not in the building department.  Unfortunately I don't think it can be fixed without being re-built, and there is no will or skill to do so.


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## jar546

Sifu said:


> We are 100% digital.  The problem is the knowledge base and human resource element to make it work is _lacking _(my attempt at being kind) It was just "turned on" one day and has a lot of issues.  There is a constant effort to fix things because the system was built very poorly and without attention to how it should work for an actual building department, by people not in the building department.  Unfortunately I don't think it can be fixed without being re-built, and there is no will or skill to do so.


What is the software you are using?


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## fatboy

Serious, 9 votes?

Do y'all not know what your department is using??


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## jar546

fatboy said:


> Serious, 9 votes?
> 
> Do y'all not know what you department is using??


I am sticking this thread because it will be timeless.


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## Sifu

jar546 said:


> What is the software you are using?


We use Central Square- Trackit.  I don't think it is the software as much as it is the implementation.  I know others use it and it works well (I think Fatboy is one).  I asked the software rep at our last education conference about some of the issues we have.  He asked where I worked and when I told him he basically shrugged his shoulders and said he couldn't help because we "customized" it and they can't really support it.  IMO, one of the flaws appears to be it's customizability.  If it can be wrecked so badly by folks with an agenda then that itself may be the problem.  

It does not integrate with a plan review software, which is also a mess.  I basically download the plans from the portal (if that part works....I often have to get them via other methods like email or drop-box) review them and upload them back to the portal.  This is an inherent flaw because each time a different reviewer does this a separate plan is created.  I have tried SO VERY HARD to implement better document security, true concurrent review (BB studio), naming conventions, improved workflow, etc. but as I said, there is just no will to improve.  Some folks are so invested in what they create they can't see any different way.  There may also be some more nefarious motivations but that's another story...


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## Keystone

Floating between 2 & 3.


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## tmurray

Mostly #4, we do have some paper applications submitted from people of a certain generation. They are scanned and they get a paper permit at the end. Otherwise, all electronic.


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## JimmyTreeX

fatboy said:


> Serious, 9 votes?
> 
> Do y'all not know what your department is using??


It won’t let me vote, but we are a combo


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## jar546

JimmyTreeX said:


> It won’t let me vote, but we are a combo


Not sure why you can't.  The poll is still open and you are registered.


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## Joe.B

Yeah it doesn't let me vote either. We have a "cobbled together" or "homemade" permit software that uses Access, it's basically uses spreadsheets but in a portal that makes it accessible. Hence the name I suppose. We were in contract with Central Square (Trakit) and it was going to be a "customized" program. Two years of very much wasted time and the decision was made to pull the plug. What we have works well enough.


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## fatboy

We have had good luck with Central Square (Trakit), we keep putting more and more of the City department on it.

We do have a full time position dedicated to it though, it does not run without somebody minding the gaps.


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## Joe.B

Yeah I think we are just too small of a city for it. The couple of times we met with their rep I had to reiterate things like "no, I'm the only inspector" or "no there aren't going to be more than 5-6 registered users" and the like. It seemed to me like he was used to working with departments with at least double digit users.


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## jar546

Joe.B said:


> Yeah I think we are just too small of a city for it. The couple of times we met with their rep I had to reiterate things like "no, I'm the only inspector" or "no there aren't going to be more than 5-6 registered users" and the like. It seemed to me like he was used to working with departments with at least double digit users.


You are never too small of a city to justify doing things electronically, especially the improved record keeping.  Life is actually easier.


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## tmurray

I would have to agree with Jar, I have a two inspector department and went with an electronic permit management system 10 years ago. We have slowly moved more and more electronic to the point we are at now where the only paper I deal with are paper submission from Boomers.


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## tbz

It surprises me that the ICC has not developed its own marketable software system for building departments.

Being they have resources and a very strong knowledge base behind them.

Just a thought


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## steveray

tbz said:


> It surprises me that the ICC has not developed its own marketable software system for building departments.
> 
> Being they have resources and a very strong knowledge base behind them.
> 
> Just a thought


They have.....









						Software and Technology - ICC
					

SOFTWARE AND TECHNOLOGY Simplify Code Research and Record Management Keeping up to date with new codes, ensuring that new buildings are compliant with all codes, and managing records can be...




					www.iccsafe.org


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## Joe.B

The pandemic forced us to accept electronic submittals and I'm glad for it, we should have all along. We just don't have any modern software to connect the dots. Electronic submittals come in emails as attachments or links and we do our intake in our 90's style access program, then back to emails to distribute plans/links to various departments for review, then we get emails back with comments which we then log in the database. Once we have all comments we create a consolidated correction list in word, then email that back to the customer. It works and really isn't much different than the way we did paper submittals. The new software we we supposed to get was advertised as a "all in one" program that did all of that and there was an online portal for customers. Program not as advertised so we are just making do with what we have. Really it's not bad, just outdated.


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## tbz

steveray said:


> They have.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Software and Technology - ICC
> 
> 
> SOFTWARE AND TECHNOLOGY Simplify Code Research and Record Management Keeping up to date with new codes, ensuring that new buildings are compliant with all codes, and managing records can be...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.iccsafe.org


Steve,

is it an all inclusive from a-z or just bits and pc's ?


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## steveray

I've never really looked into it, but I believe Municity has the ability to do "everything" I have a peer using some form of Municity and he is not in love, which seems to be the opinion of most software...


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## BayPointArchitect

Once upon a time, we used a combination of Permits Plus (which I think went extinct) and ProjectDox.  For twelve years, Permits Plus allowed us to enter code review comments and track the status of the permit application and inspections.  ProjectDox allowed permit applicants (architects, developers, contractors, etc.) to upload their PDF plans and ProjectDox is still used by our Planning Department to review site plans.  Ten years ago, we were in Utopia and life was perfect.  Then we switched to Accela which has a great marketing department.  As a matter of fact, I think the entire company is one big marketing department with only one technical person who knows how to make their software work.  Our department of fifty people paid $1,190,000 for the software.  That's $23,800 per seat.  No, I am not joking or exaggerating.  Accela was installed and then we cried.  But several years later - after paying hourly fees to Accela - it works perfectly as advertised.


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## Beniah Naylor

Our department uses Filemaker, which is a standard database software that has been around for a long time, and my boss custom-made the database to do everything we need to do. Which is nice because if something doesn't work right, we can fix it in house. 

Probably not a solution that is feasible for everybody... It took a lot of work to get to this point...


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## tbz

Beniah Naylor said:


> Our department uses Filemaker, which is a standard database software that has been around for a long time, and my boss custom-made the database to do everything we need to do. Which is nice because if something doesn't work right, we can fix it in house.
> 
> Probably not a solution that is feasible for everybody... It took a lot of work to get to this point...


Who maintains it after he departs?


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## Msradell

tbz said:


> Who maintains it after he departs?


FileMaker is a pretty straightforward software, the hard part in setting up the initial structure and screens. Maintaining it afterwards is quite simple in most cases.


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## Beniah Naylor

tbz said:


> Who maintains it after he departs?


We're screwed...

He has trained a few of our people, I think we could muddle through... but it would suck.


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## tmurray

tbz said:


> Who maintains it after he departs?


This was my concern as well. Too often we get complacent that everything works right now, not realizing that a single change could completely cripple us. 

Business continuity planning remains one of the most critical functions of any manager to ensure that their employees are prepared to meet challenges as they arise.


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## Joe.B

The city I work for had a BO for a long time, I think he worked for the city for 25+ and at least 15 of those as BO. He "built" the current Access program that we use, sounds similar to FileMaker. He didn't train anybody else and his retirement caused a cascade of failures and 7-8 years later we are still picking up the pieces. For the software we did hire a local consultant who knows how to repair/maintain/improve our software when needed.


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## tbz

Beniah Naylor said:


> We're screwed...
> 
> He has trained a few of our people, I think we could muddle through... but it would suck.


I had built more than a few DBase programs first in Visual basic and then Foxpro, and then access, the issue becomes as operating systems change, if the base programing language goes away and is replaced or needs to be upgraded in a manner that does not cascade the old logic into the formatting, well it becomes a really big issue.
And as the operating systems push more towards cloud based programs, you are going to see a big issue with the older programs.


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## jar546

tbz said:


> It surprises me that the ICC has not developed its own marketable software system for building departments.
> 
> Being they have resources and a very strong knowledge base behind them.
> 
> Just a thought


The ICC acquired a company that had been in business since 1962 and developed municipal software.  It is now available.


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## sbeckman

wont let me vote. we are 100% Trakit and project docs. Set up well and working great! I have used others that were not set up well and were not great. Set-up makes all the difference.


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## fatboy

sbeckman said:


> wont let me vote. we are 100% Trakit and project docs. Set up well and working great! I have used others that were not set up well and were not great. Set-up makes all the difference.


We found the same thing, the initial set up makes it easy, or a living hell. Fortunately, we ended up more on the well set up. We also now have a full time business manager that knows it inside and out. And yes, if he left, we would be in a tough spot. I know enough to be dangerous.

 As said, could muddle through probably till we got another person trained up, through trial and error.


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## No Soup for you

cant vote

We use Municity... an older version that is not very user friendly due to not set up properly.

asked for money in budget for an upgrade but you know how that is.......... we will see


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## Rick18071

We got hit with ransomware so we are back to 100% paper for the last 3 weeks. And we now have no idea what jobs failed or passed inspections or what they failed for.


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## No Soup for you

Rick18071 said:


> We got hit with ransomware so we are back to 100% paper for the last 3 weeks. And we now have no idea what jobs failed or passed inspections or what they failed for.


geez, thats a nightmare.......

our town supervisor (mayor) wants to go 100% paperless. Especially since we asked for $ for more filing cabinets last month... HAHA

I cant see that ever happening.


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## Joe.B

I think it would be prudent to always have the option to use paper for some of the most essential functions. Paperless is great but when something unforeseen happens (ransomware, power failure, IT fire, etc...) it would be extremely beneficial to have the ability to function. Later when systems are back up and running things can get digitized.


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## Devohle'

This is the exact topic I was looking for!

There is a total of 6,000 people in the city so I am the guy doing everything from the building side (permitting/inspections/plan-review) for the jurisdiction.

We currently use all separate systems for the finance/public works/building departments and it would be nice to just use a single system for it all.

Are there some smaller communities out there who have found a solution that works for them?

I am waiting to hear back from ICC on Municity to see if their system will work for our small town.

Feel free to private message me if you have time to chat!


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## JPohling

Here in San Diego I would say we are in the stone age.  After 2 years of digital permit submittals, the process has gotten so bad that I just cannot see how it is sustainable for anyone to actually get a permit.  I am only speaking about Tenant Improvement permits because that is what we do.  We just got a few tidbits of information that is laughable at best.  Here are the time frames they just sent out.  *From receipt of the digital submittal until they have the project set up in the system will be 30 business days.  *That is nearly 2 months of admin.  Then you will be assigned a plan reviewer and plan check can begin.  obviously plan review time is dependant on the scope and size of the project, but safe to say it is painfully slow.  Then after all approvals have been completed they move the project to Permit Issuance.  *The time frame to issue the permit once it reaches permit issuance is 20 business days.  *That is another month.  So just for the most basic of permits the admin time involved to obtain a permit is 3 months.


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## Devohle'

JPohling said:


> Here in San Diego I would say we are in the stone age.  After 2 years of digital permit submittals, the process has gotten so bad that I just cannot see how it is sustainable for anyone to actually get a permit.  I am only speaking about Tenant Improvement permits because that is what we do.  We just got a few tidbits of information that is laughable at best.  Here are the time frames they just sent out.  *From receipt of the digital submittal until they have the project set up in the system will be 30 business days.  *That is nearly 2 months of admin.  Then you will be assigned a plan reviewer and plan check can begin.  obviously plan review time is dependant on the scope and size of the project, but safe to say it is painfully slow.  Then after all approvals have been completed they move the project to Permit Issuance.  *The time frame to issue the permit once it reaches permit issuance is 20 business days.  *That is another month.  So just for the most basic of permits the admin time involved to obtain a permit is 3 months.


Wow... you would think the digital process would help! Maybe a dedicated person to handle all issues related to the permitting system would help things. Yeah... its not in our city budget either...


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## Inspector Gadget

JPohling said:


> So just for the most basic of permits the admin time involved to obtain a permit is 3 months.



Sweet bippity - we're aiming for two weeks MAX. Smaller jurisdiction, but one with some complicated land-use, as we provide service to several municipalities which each have unique zoning requirements. 

We're (finally) moving to a digital system.


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## Devohle'

Inspector Gadget said:


> Sweet bippity - we're aiming for two weeks MAX. Smaller jurisdiction, but one with some complicated land-use, as we provide service to several municipalities which each have unique zoning requirements.
> 
> We're (finally) moving to a digital system.


Who are you going with to digitize your permit/plan review processes?


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## Rick18071

JPohling said:


> Here in San Diego I would say we are in the stone age.  After 2 years of digital permit submittals, the process has gotten so bad that I just cannot see how it is sustainable for anyone to actually get a permit.  I am only speaking about Tenant Improvement permits because that is what we do.  We just got a few tidbits of information that is laughable at best.  Here are the time frames they just sent out.  *From receipt of the digital submittal until they have the project set up in the system will be 30 business days.  *That is nearly 2 months of admin.  Then you will be assigned a plan reviewer and plan check can begin.  obviously plan review time is dependant on the scope and size of the project, but safe to say it is painfully slow.  Then after all approvals have been completed they move the project to Permit Issuance.  *The time frame to issue the permit once it reaches permit issuance is 20 business days.  *That is another month.  So just for the most basic of permits the admin time involved to obtain a permit is 3 months.



Do you have a law that requires permit to be issued or denied within so many days?
Here in PA we have 30 days, for stamped residential we have 5 days.
We are mostly stone age.


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## Inspector Gadget

Devohle' said:


> Who are you going with to digitize your permit/plan review processes?


Our uberboss is an IT geek at heart, and is essentially creating a customized database system.... So we will own it, and it will do exactly what we need, and can be modified as our needs change.


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## mtlogcabin

Inspector Gadget said:


> and is essentially creating a customized database system....


And when he leaves who will have the knowledge to maintain it. We had a locally customized data base for about 10 years until updates from the underlying platform and support where no longer available from the manufacturer,  Think Microsoft versions that are no longer supported for example.


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## Inspector Gadget

mtlogcabin said:


> And when he leaves who will have the knowledge to maintain it. We had a locally customized data base for about 10 years until updates from the underlying platform and support where no longer available from the manufacturer,  Think Microsoft versions that are no longer supported for example.



This is all mySQL stuff, with a generic interface ... in fact, that's the reason the boss said "screw it, let's do it ourselves" because companies go under, change platforms, demand more, etc.


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## jar546

Rick18071 said:


> Do you have a law that requires permit to be issued or denied within so many days?
> Here in PA we have 30 days, for stamped residential we have 5 days.
> We are mostly stone age.


You can reject the drawings within the 30 or 5 day timeframe and the clock goes away.  You don't have to approve them in 5 or 30 days.


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