# Yet another egress door locking question/thread.



## firemanx (Nov 26, 2012)

A bit of background information, I'm a new FM and am performing inspections in an area that has been highly neglected by previous inspectors.  It seems that I'm having to come back and correct many things that were overlooked or never addressed:  I am in Indiana, and am following 2006 IFC w/ state amendments; I am working on a report for a large, 50k+ sq. ft. M occupancy that was built circa 1993, has changed business ownership 3 times in the past but not changed occupancy classification nor have any structural changes been made.  The most recent change of occupant occurred about 4 years ago.

Technically speaking, I am aware that I should be following the code that was adopted at the time the structure was built considering no alterations have been made to the structure; however I have no idea what code was in existence at that time, and believe the modern code may be more stringent.  Most local inspectors follow the latest adopted code unless challenged by the occupant.

One of the items that I'm working on with this occupant, is the use of locking hardware on exits, a common issue.  One marked exit has a surface mount bolt that I will require to be removed per 1008.1.8.  However;

My questions are the following; are twist latch locks (forgive my lack of proper terminology here) allowed on horizontal automatic doors?  Some of the doors have their sensors turned off to prevent them from automatically opening, additionally they have stickers on them indicating that the doors must be unlocked during occupancy.  I'm assuming that these are acceptable, given the age of the structure.

Second, am I correct in understanding that any exit with exception to the main entrance (given exceptions) may have additional locking hardware, so long as it is interconnected, ie,the single motion of an ADA handle or panic bar will unlock all other hardware simultaneously?

Lastly; double cylinder locks are unacceptable on any door configuration, including the main entrance?  Are twist locks acceptable on main entrances if they are not in operation during occupancy?

I appreciate any opinions and insight.  Again, forgive my lack of knowledge and experience, I'm wanting to expand both.


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## cda (Nov 26, 2012)

Welcome, how did you find us?

Is your building dept easy to work with???

If so suggest you get with them, and let them educate you

Your city record keeper should have when different code editions were adopted and building depot should know

Main entrance, which is not defined, "pet peeve", can have key lock. New installs require an indicator saying open/ closed

1008.1.8.3 Locks and latches.

Locks and latches shall be permitted to prevent operation of doors where any of the following exists:

1.   Places of detention or restraint.

2.   In buildings in occupancy Group A having an occupant load of 300 or less, Groups B, F, M and S, and in places of religious worship, the main exterior door or doors are permitted to be equipped with key-operated locking devices from the egress side provided:

2.1.   The locking device is readily distinguishable as locked,

2.2.   A readily visible durable sign is posted on the egress side on or adjacent to the door stating: THIS DOOR TO REMAIN UNLOCKED WHEN BUILDING IS OCCUPIED. The sign shall be in letters 1 inch (25 mm) high on a contrasting background,

2.3.   The use of the key-operated locking device is revokable by the building official for due cause.

3.   Where egress doors are used in pairs, approved automatic flush bolts shall be permitted to be used, provided that the door leaf having the automatic flush bolts has no doorknob or surface-mounted hardware.

4.   Doors from individual dwelling or sleeping units of Group R occupancies having an occupant load of 10 or less are permitted to be equipped with a night latch, dead bolt or security chain, provided such devices are openable from the inside without the use of a key or tool.

Most people here will say no on thumb latches due to Ada requirements

Check this book out from Mrs. Wonderful Lori

http://www.vonduprin.com/fireandlifesafety/Fire_and_Life_Safety_Code.pdf

And again welcome


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## Inspector 102 (Nov 26, 2012)

As a fellow Indiana inspector (N/E Indiana), I have had the same questions pop up with existing buildings. I assist our local Fire Inspector as the building official for my area. A difficult task ahead of you if previous inspection were not addressing the violations. You will find a wealth of information on this discussion board from many talented and educated people. Our state amendments are not addressed in many of the responces and you will have to apply those accordingly. I am looking forward to the responces to your questions also to pass on to our fire inspector. Welcome to the forum.


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## mtlogcabin (Nov 26, 2012)

It is up to you

1028.2 Reliability.

Required exit accesses, exits or exit discharges shall be continuously maintained free from obstructions or impediments to full instant use in the case of fire or other emergency when the areas served by such exits are occupied. Security devices affecting means of egress shall be subject to approval of the fire code official.

Small battles will win the war so choose wisely. Follow cda's advice, be firm, educate as to why the changes need to be made, and provide real world examples of people be trapped because exits where blocked or locked.


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## firemanx (Nov 26, 2012)

cda said:
			
		

> Welcome, how did you find us?


I was referred here by another forum, I believe by users in both the firehouse.com and inspector911 forums.



			
				cda said:
			
		

> Is your building dept easy to work with???If so suggest you get with them, and let them educate you


Yes, the building department is great to work with and I have a good working relationship with them and I will continue to rely and improve upon that, however, I don't always trust their complete judgement in some of the code.  For example, we had an occupant move into an existing A-3 occupancy, who wanted to change it to mixed occupancy with an M occupancy.  Originally, they were going to allow it to happen without a design release, fire separations etc., but through a process of speaking with the building department I convinced them to submit plans to the State for design released (which is required by state code).  There are other situations that I have questioned, I just take what I hear with a grain of salt.



			
				cda said:
			
		

> Your city record keeper should have when different code editions were adopted and building depot should know


Good point, I will follow up with this to find out if need be.  Interesting situation is the State has adopted 2006 IFC w/ amendments, the county has adopted the State adoption by reference (and applies to all municipalities within) and the local level has adopted the 1985 UFC.  The local code is ancient and has not been updated as time passed, I'm working with legal department on getting the local codes straightened out; or so I hope.



			
				cda said:
			
		

> Most people here will say no on thumb latches due to Ada requirements


I would agree with this as well, due to the provision in the code that states it's unacceptable to use devices that require tight grasp or twisting of the wrist.  However, the question still begs, if an entry door is not panic bar equipped and is not required to be, can thumb latches be installed so long as they are unlocked during hours of occupancy?  I ask because I've been to many locations that have them on the main entrance doors, the doors only require the single push action to open the door, it's just a matter of can these items be allowable or not; ie can they be ordered to be removed or should it be recommended that they be removed?



			
				cda said:
			
		

> Check this book out from Mrs. Wonderful Lorihttp://www.vonduprin.com/fireandlifesafety/Fire_and_Life_Safety_Code.pdf
> 
> And again welcome


Thank you, I will check it out.

I sincerely appreciate the fast reply and great information.  As I mentioned, I look forward to learning from you and everyone else on these forum, I'm eager to do so and to participate along side where I may.  If at any point in time I sound argumentative, I don't mean to, it's simply that I may not completely understanding of the code or situation.


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## firemanx (Nov 26, 2012)

cda said:
			
		

> Welcome, how did you find us?


I was referred here by another forum, I believe by users in both the firehouse.com and inspector911 forums.



			
				cda said:
			
		

> Is your building dept easy to work with???If so suggest you get with them, and let them educate you


Yes, the building department is great to work with and I have a good working relationship with them and I will continue to rely and improve upon that, however, I don't always trust their complete judgement in some of the code.  For example, we had an occupant move into an existing A-3 occupancy, who wanted to change it to mixed occupancy with an M occupancy.  Originally, they were going to allow it to happen without a design release, fire separations etc., but through a process of speaking with the building department I convinced them to submit plans to the State for design released (which is required by state code).  There are other situations that I have questioned, I just take what I hear with a grain of salt.



			
				cda said:
			
		

> Your city record keeper should have when different code editions were adopted and building depot should know


Good point, I will follow up with this to find out if need be.  Interesting situation is the State has adopted 2006 IFC w/ amendments, the county has adopted the State adoption by reference (and applies to all municipalities within) and the local level has adopted the 1985 UFC.  The local code is ancient and has not been updated as time passed, I'm working with legal department on getting the local codes straightened out; or so I hope.



			
				cda said:
			
		

> Most people here will say no on thumb latches due to Ada requirements


I would agree with this as well, due to the provision in the code that states it's unacceptable to use devices that require tight grasp or twisting of the wrist.  However, the question still begs, if an entry door is not panic bar equipped and is not required to be, can thumb latches be installed so long as they are unlocked during hours of occupancy?  I ask because I've been to many locations that have them on the main entrance doors, the doors only require the single push action to open the door, it's just a matter of can these items be allowable or not; ie can they be ordered to be removed or should it be recommended that they be removed?



			
				cda said:
			
		

> Check this book out from Mrs. Wonderful Lorihttp://www.vonduprin.com/fireandlifesafety/Fire_and_Life_Safety_Code.pdf
> 
> And again welcome


Thank you, I will check it out.

I sincerely appreciate the fast reply and great information.  As I mentioned, I look forward to learning from you and everyone else on these forum, I'm eager to do so and to participate along side where I may.  If at any point in time I sound argumentative, I don't mean to, it's simply that I may not completely understanding of the code or situation.


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## firemanx (Nov 26, 2012)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> It is up to you1028.2 Reliability.
> 
> Required exit accesses, exits or exit discharges shall be continuously maintained free from obstructions or impediments to full instant use in the case of fire or other emergency when the areas served by such exits are occupied. Security devices affecting means of egress shall be subject to approval of the fire code official.
> 
> Small battles will win the war so choose wisely. Follow cda's advice, be firm, educate as to why the changes need to be made, and provide real world examples of people be trapped because exits where blocked or locked.


Another good point.  I suppose coming across as "convincing" the property owner to change something is always better than "requiring" it, if it comes down to it, if my paraphrasing is correct.


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## firemanx (Nov 26, 2012)

I replied to your post, I think it may still be pending a moderators approval before it gets posted?


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## firemanx (Nov 26, 2012)

"Welcome, how did you find us?"

I was referred here by another forum, I believe by users in both the firehouse.com and inspector911 forums.

"Is your building dept easy to work with???

If so suggest you get with them, and let them educate you"

Yes, the building department is great to work with and I have a good working relationship with them and I will continue to rely and improve upon that, however, I don't always trust their complete judgement in some of the code.  For example, we had an occupant move into an existing A-3 occupancy, who wanted to change it to mixed occupancy with an M occupancy.  Originally, they were going to allow it to happen without a design release, fire separations etc., but through a process of speaking with the building department I convinced them to submit plans to the State for design released (which is required by state code).  There are other situations that I have questioned, I just take what I hear with a grain of salt.

"Your city record keeper should have when different code editions were adopted and building depot should know"

Good point, I will follow up with this to find out if need be.  Interesting situation is the State has adopted 2006 IFC w/ amendments, the county has adopted the State adoption by reference (and applies to all municipalities within) and the local level has adopted the 1985 UFC.  The local code is ancient and has not been updated as time passed, I'm working with legal department on getting the local codes straightened out; or so I hope.

"Most people here will say no on thumb latches due to Ada requirements"

I would agree with this as well, due to the provision in the code that states it's unacceptable to use devices that require tight grasp or twisting of the wrist.  However, the question still begs, if an entry door is not panic bar equipped and is not required to be, can thumb latches be installed so long as they are unlocked during hours of occupancy?  I ask because I've been to many locations that have them on the main entrance doors, the doors only require the single push action to open the door, it's just a matter of can these items be allowable or not; ie can they be ordered to be removed or should it be recommended that they be removed?

Thank you for the link, I will check it out.

I sincerely appreciate the fast reply and great information.  As I mentioned, I look forward to learning from you and everyone else on these forum, I'm eager to do so and to participate along side where I may.  If at any point in time I sound argumentative, I don't mean to, it's simply that I may not completely understanding of the code or situation.


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## firemanx (Nov 26, 2012)

Sorry for the multiple posts, not real what happened there and there doesn't seem to be an edit/delete option.


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## mtlogcabin (Nov 26, 2012)

The former Building Official allowed "thumb" locks on a main door if it was the only exit from the space. His logic was it takes the same tight gripping and twisting to operate a "key" as it does a thumb lock and know one will get locked in.

Small office with Tom and Jim working late, Tom runs out to get Wendy's and locks the door. A fire ignites, Jim heads for the single exit then realizes his office keys are in his coat which is in his car. A thumb lock would be nice to have about this time

Evaluate each situation and building just be consistant


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## firemanx (Nov 26, 2012)

Gotcha.  I'm not necessarily opposed to them on non panic hardware equipped doors from the aspect of firefighting as well.  I just wanted to get opinions on whether they were explicitly prohibited, such as surface mount bolts; I didn't find any code that did prohibit thumb latches but was afraid I may have overlooked it.  Thanks for the help and insight everyone!


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## FM William Burns (Nov 26, 2012)

Little late to the party but here is my 2 cents........... the older BOCA code used circa 1993 in the Hoosier state had language .....key, special knowledge and effort. The grasping language came later in the 1999 If recall correctly and then the 2000 IBC/IFC. Personally speaking for a 50+k s.f. mercantile could permit an occupant load of upwards to 2200 occupants.

Automatic sliding doors still had to release upon power failure with a manual break-a-way motion in the legacy code (again if I recall correctly).

Signs were permitted on or adjacent to exit doors with a minimum text font size requirement.

Thumb turns were also permitted on some doors since it met the restrictions. Slide bolts (not permitted).

I recall keys being permitted to be housed in the egress side of a double cylinder too. Panic and FE hardware were also in play.

Now for what we do........don't permit double cylinders and we permit thumb turns for existing doors and we don't have legislation enforcing ADA for existing.

Welcome to the forum!!


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## LGreene (Nov 26, 2012)

firemanx said:
			
		

> Second, am I correct in understanding that any exit with exception to the main entrance (given exceptions) may have additional locking hardware, so long as it is interconnected, ie,the single motion of an ADA handle or panic bar will unlock all other hardware simultaneously?


As long as one motion releases the latches you can have multiple latches, although there aren't very many products that work this way other than vertical rod panic hardware.



			
				firemanx said:
			
		

> Lastly; double cylinder locks are unacceptable on any door configuration, including the main entrance?  Are twist locks acceptable on main entrances if they are not in operation during occupancy?


There are 2 issues with deadbolt locks that have a thumbturn (aka twist locks).  The thumbturn should be accessible if the door is part of an accessible route.  Here's some information about accessible thumbturns:  I Dig Hardware / I Hate Hardware » Accessible Thumbturns.

If a deadlock with a thumbturn is allowed to be used in locations where a key-operated lock would be allowed by the IBC (ie. main entrance of certain occupancies, with signage), the difference is that the thumbturn can be controlled by anyone, while the key-operated lock can only be controlled by the person with the key.  Allowing anyone to use the thumbturn for egress is a good thing, but giving anyone/everyone the ability to lock the door is not.  To avoid this problem, a classroom deadlock can be used.  With this lock function, the thumbturn can retract the bolt but not project it (handy for multi-stall toilets).  A classroom lock can be a problem if the tenant wants to lock the door while they're still in the building, because only the key in the outside cylinder can be used to lock the door.  Another option is a deadlatch operated by a paddle, like the ones made by Adams Rite.


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## firemanx (Nov 27, 2012)

FH William & LGreene,

Thank you (and everyone I didn't already thank) for your reply.  I feel much more confident in my understanding and therefore application of this information.  I think most of the time I am on the right path, but due to my inexperience I could use a bit of reinforcement from others who may have "been there and done that".

Thanks again everyone!


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