# I R a XT Plumber



## cda (Jun 2, 2019)

https://www.texastribune.org/2019/05/28/texas-plumbers-future-laws-board-abolished/


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## conarb (Jun 2, 2019)

Not a bad idea, get back to local control:



> Many cities around Texas have local plumbing codes that build off larger codes, including the Uniform Plumbing Code, a policy developed by International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials, and the International Plumbing Code, developed by International Code Council. Without the state code, regulation will probably go back to the cities and municipalities, Wakefield said.



We had sunset laws under Governor Schwarzenegger, didn't do any good, the various agencies just spent all their time justifying their own existence and we didn't rid ourselves of one useless agency,


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## fatboy (Jun 2, 2019)

So, you think that by pushing it of to local agencies, it becomes safer???? NOT!

You continue to amaze me..............

Thanks, but I would like my drinking water to be provided by someone who understands how to deliver it.


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## Rick18071 (Jun 3, 2019)

In PA you don't need a plumber's License unless the locals required it. Been inspecting for 15 years and only ever worked in one area a little while where plumbers license's where required. Odd that an electrician's license was not needed there too. I had very few bad plumbing inspections ever and usually it was the home owner's work that was bad. I don't see the need of a plumber's license.

When they say in this article that the plumbers license is for safety do they mean safety for the public or safety for plumbers? When I google I can't fine any non plumbers that were killed by plumbing but find a lot of plumbers that where killed on the job, mostly in trenches.


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## JCraver (Jun 3, 2019)

The guy that got it in to the collective heads of people that plumbing was some mystical trade that needed all kinds of licenses, regulations, apprenticeships, and unions is the smartest guy the world has ever seen.  He bluffed the whole dang planet.


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## Keystone (Jun 3, 2019)

So if Licensed Plumbers keep us safe then why must those same Licensed Plumbers have inspections? Shouldn’t by all accounts any of those Licensed trade professionals, plumbers, electricians, hvac, be exempt from inspections, they do test to a competent level, must have active insurance and shall maintain the mentioned and be registered with the state.


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## fatboy (Jun 4, 2019)

Have you seen ICE's posts???


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## mtlogcabin (Jun 4, 2019)

Back under the legacy codes the plumbing code included gas. Plumbers in our state are trained and tested in gas pipe installation and medical gas. Plumbing is not only about knowing that sh-t runs downhill.


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## e hilton (Jun 17, 2019)

mtlogcabin said:


> Plumbing is not only about knowing that sh-t runs downhill.



Correct. They also have to know:  Payday is Friday.  Don't chew your fingernails.


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## ADAguy (Jul 3, 2019)

So, you want to further enrich the "suits" of the world eh? I guess there aren't many esq's in PA?
Basis of E & O claims is contract language and lack of competence. How do you prove "minimum" competence? Hire an "expert". You want a return to Hammarabbi (spelling?) ?


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## tmurray (Jul 4, 2019)

ADAguy said:


> So, you want to further enrich the "suits" of the world eh? I guess there aren't many esq's in PA?
> Basis of E & O claims is contract language and lack of competence. How do you prove "minimum" competence? Hire an "expert". You want a return to Hammarabbi (spelling?) ?


Minimum competence levels are established by the certification agency and provided they are following a standard, like ISO 17024, litigation will be challenging.

Now, proving competence without a certification agency can be challenging. A good example is the province where I work, you do not need any training, education, or certification to inspect buildings. However, my employer requires it for liability mitigation. We have a private organization that handles certification that aligns with national level certification.

Even if it not "required", there will still likely be some form of licensing and many people (most of the RDPs) are going to specify a requirement to be licensed.


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## ADAguy (Jul 5, 2019)

The "keyword" is "provided", who verifies that they do? Do you allow design/build in Canada?


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## tmurray (Jul 5, 2019)

ADAguy said:


> The "keyword" is "provided", who verifies that they do? Do you allow design/build in Canada?


They are self-regulating. In order for the provincial or federal authorities to accept their private member bill to restrict their trade to only those that have certification through their organization they must demonstrate that the certification scheme functions: enough people to meet demand, both now and due to turn over; have proper controls in place for certification, investigation, discipline and stripping members of certification. Architects, engineers, interior designers, plumbers, electricians all have these schemes in my province.

Design/build related to plumbing or building?
In plumbing: the plumber will design the piping arrangement on all but very large jobs
In building: very rare where I am, but it is simply because the economy wouldn't support it. More likely in urban cores.


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## Rick18071 (Jul 8, 2019)

In PA work in homes and commercial buildings that is related to propane is exempted from permits, plan reviews and inspections. So they could just use a garden hose and the inspectors can't say anything.

 A person may not transfer, sell, fill, deliver or permit to be delivered any LPG or use an LPG container with out a state certification. But there is not a certification or license required for installing piping and equipment so anyone can install even where local law requires plumber license.. So us inspectors cannot look at the propane piping and equipment even though there is no certification or licence to install it. The guy that delivers (that has the certification) the propane gas only has to pressure check when work has been done or the gas ran out.


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## conarb (Jul 8, 2019)

I recently built a home with propane, I couldn't order out the appliances set up for propane, but had to order them out for natural gas. After everything was complete and inspected I had to call an appliance repairman who came out and modified everything for propane, the flames went from orange to blue.


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## e hilton (Jul 8, 2019)

conarb said:


> After everything was complete and inspected I had to call an appliance repairman who came out and modified everything for propane.



You couldnt order new propane orifices yourself?


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## conarb (Jul 8, 2019)

e hilton said:


> You couldnt order new propane orifices yourself?


No, when the order was placed I did request them but they came with gas orifices, when I called to complain I was told that a factory trained appliance repairman had to bleed the lines and install the propane orifices. When the inspector walked final and turned them on he got a dull red flame.


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## classicT (Jul 8, 2019)

conarb said:


> No, when the order was placed I did request them but they came with gas orifices, when I called to complain I was told that a factory trained appliance repairman had to bleed the lines and install the propane orifices. When the inspector walked final and turned them on he got a dull red flame.


This is actually somewhat typical...manufacturers playing CYA before someone blows themselves up.


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## Kyle B (Jan 12, 2021)

Keystone said:


> So if Licensed Plumbers keep us safe then why must those same Licensed Plumbers have inspections? Shouldn’t by all accounts any of those Licensed trade professionals, plumbers, electricians, hvac, be exempt from inspections, they do test to a competent level, must have active insurance and shall maintain the mentioned and be registered with the state.


Because cross connecting gas lines, like oxygen/nitrogen, can kill people.


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## ADAguy (Jan 13, 2021)

Keystone said:


> So if Licensed Plumbers keep us safe then why must those same Licensed Plumbers have inspections? Shouldn’t by all accounts any of those Licensed trade professionals, plumbers, electricians, hvac, be exempt from inspections, they do test to a competent level, must have active insurance and shall maintain the mentioned and be registered with the state.



Not "all" plumbers employees are "licensed", just as most CM's lack licenses and trade experience (working under a GC's license who rarely walks their jobs)
Inspectors are often our only line of defense against them.


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## Keystone (Jan 13, 2021)

Kyle B said:


> Because cross connecting gas lines, like oxygen/nitrogen, can kill people.




Well duhhh.  Again they test at a competent level just as I have and I’m going out on a limb here based on your comment but you did as well. So have you approved that type of cross connection or did your competency test prevent that, rhetorical question!


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## Keystone (Jan 13, 2021)

Add 





ADAguy said:


> Not "all" plumbers employees are "licensed", just as most CM's lack licenses and trade experience (working under a GC's license who rarely walks their jobs)
> Inspectors are often our only line of defense against them.



Did I write licensed or unlicensed.  Read again and learn to think for yourself, stop being a cheer leader for Kyle B or anyone’s else for that matter.....


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## Kyle B (Feb 1, 2021)

Keystone said:


> Well duhhh.  Again they test at a competent level just as I have and I’m going out on a limb here based on your comment but you did as well. So have you approved that type of cross connection or did your competency test prevent that, rhetorical question!


I'm a medical gas installer, all of our work has to be approved by a third party verifier called an ASSE 6030 Verifier, regardless of competent we are. The issue that just happened in Georgia with the Nitrogen leak is a good example of why third party certifications and inspections are a good thing.


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## e hilton (Feb 1, 2021)

Kyle B said:


> The issue that just happened in Georgia with the Nitrogen leak


Something recent?


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## Kyle B (Feb 1, 2021)

e hilton said:


> Something recent?


Yea, it killed 6 people. I just posted about it in another thread on the Commercial Building thread.


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