# existing restaurant inspection



## cda (Jun 2, 2010)

For those who do some type of existing restaurant inspection like an annual inspection

Do you look behind the vent a hood filters or do you just look for a cleaning tag on the hood or similar paperwork, showing when the hood was cleaned last??


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## peach (Jun 2, 2010)

If it's a grease hood, open one of the grease duct accesses... just don't eat first.

Do we ever take the contractor/owner's word for anything?


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## cheyer (Jun 2, 2010)

definitely look at the filters....that way you know if it jives with the log they "should" be keeping...


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## FM William Burns (Jun 2, 2010)

Case by case and past inspection firm history, maintenance schedule or lack there of and management change history.  When we suspect anything we kindly schedule an inspection for non prime time and ask for the removal of the filters to take a better look.  Most companies are using scopes and recording so we plug in and play the video and verify the time stamp with records.


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## Mac (Jun 3, 2010)

I always require record of the most recent cleaning, and ask the staff to remove one or more filters.


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## TimNY (Jun 3, 2010)

I have found that a  nice shiny clean hood and plenum do not necessarily indicate clean ducts.  I would deifnitely want to see the ducts.


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## cda (Jun 3, 2010)

thanks for the replies, had an incident where the tag said hood had been cleaned with in a two week period, and once the filters were removed, did not look like they even touched it.

TimNY

here you go::::::::::::::::     http://kaweahoaks.com/html/mallard_duck_male.jpg


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## mtlogcabin (Jun 3, 2010)

Check the roof area around the discharge fan for grease build up that would indicate a possible improper velocity/CFM or the system needs to be cleaned more often


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## Insurance Engineer (Jun 3, 2010)

Ask the business owner" do they clean from hood to the roof and everything in between"? When they they do not know, ask to call the duct cleaning company. I had a hospital last week the answer from the duct cleaning company was yes EXCEPT for the 20' we can not get to because of no access panels! The 20', 4' above the cooking hood, was part of a 120' of ductwork!!!


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## Builder Bob (Jun 3, 2010)

Until you work enough with the hood cleaning service to know what working relationship you can establish; you will need to check the roof, drip pans, ductwork, plenums, etc. Even so, checking a couple of hoods during the year is enopugh to kepp most of these guys on their toes.


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## fireguy (Jun 4, 2010)

Post by post

cda, when you look for the label all you know is the company has a label and paper punch.   From your postings on other boards, I know you look at more than a piece of paper.

peach, open all of the access panels and tip the fan.  What about inaccessable panels and non-compliant panels and fans that are screwed down?

cheyer, filters can be clean because they are run throught the dishmachine.  PJ cleaners may only clean the filters on one side and clean only the visible part of the hood and up the duct about 3 feet.

FM Burns, a good response.  How do you know the McD pictures they submit are for the McD they claim to have cleaned.

Mac, see my response to cheyer

TimNY. so far, the best response. Are you really going to climb on the char broiler & look up the duct and at the filter tracks?  In your white shirt?

cda, unfortunatly, you have seen the work done by most cleaners.

Senior Member, Or the fan is a downblast, or there is no grease containment, most likely, thePJ cleaner never made it to the roof.

Insurance Engineer, The business owner very seldon knows or cares.  They are looking for a cheap price, because there is no enforcement.   At least the cleaner was honest and admitted to not cleaning the entire system.  And, it may be the owner was made aware of the problem but chose not to spend the money.

Builder Bob, The best resonse so far, but you need to have the knowledge and desire to perform a real inspection.

Now that you have slammed the cleaners, I will tell you what I have seen in 25 years +  cleaning exhaust systems, installing suppression system and servicing suppression systems. .  The posters above seem to blame the hood cleaners.  And most of the cleaning work I have seen is criminal.  Work is being charged for and not done.  A large number of the fans, and ducts have never been cleaned. But poor hood cleaning is only a part of the problem. Installing contractors must accept part of the blame for non-compliant exhaust systems.   Most of the installing contractors work is not done to any resemblance of the  code. The next group at fualt are the builing inspectors. As a group, the building inspectors knowledge is just slightly above the contractors. Fortunatly, building inspectors are not held responsible for their actions, as are contractors.   The last group the  is the group who has the most to loose, the fire inspectors.  No, I am wrong.  The group that has the most to loose are the firefighters.  They die, just like the 3 in Boston, or the 3 in Coos Bay, Oregon who died in a fire.  Not a resturant fire, but the result of poor work and poor inspection procedures.

 I am working on 2 new resturants at present. We are installing the fire suppression systems, & will be responsible for the service work.

 Job #1,  used exhaust system by Captive Aire.  the hood is not listed for char broiler use, the duct is too small, the fan will not pull the required air flow.  I brought this to the building  inspectors attention.  He chose to allow a non-compliant system to be installed.  The make-up air is not powered, but gravity feed.  There is only one layer of 3M 15A insulation, banded properly but not taped.  Most importantly, not the 2 layers required.  The right side of the hood is against a wall.  There is not 3" of air space to the wall,  the wall is only 1 layer of 5/8 rock with something that looks like Fire Tex or Cello Tex for the second layer.  Those of use who have used a line on cello tex are very aware it is combustable. The ceiling has 2 penetrations through 3 layers of sheet rock.  I have not gone on the roof to look for grease containment or a hinge kit.

Job # 2 is a Mexican Resturant.  The hood is a used non-listed canopy hood.  We started the new fire suppression system yesterday. The side curtains are too light of gauge, screwed to the hood and the joints silconed.   My helper noted the screws holding the duct to the hood and asked if that was code.  I told him no, and then scraped what looked like a welded joint with my fingernail.  I showed him the red silicone under the silver paint. The HVAC guy had used red silicone to seal the duct and painted it silver.  My guy told me the silicone at the last hood joint had not even been painted. The red silicone will degrade in the presense of the grease, heat and the sodium hydroxide cleaning chemical. The silicone is rated for about 650°F. But, it passed the inspection.  The local FD does not  have an commercial building inspection program.

I want you to meet Randy Carpenter.  His Dad had about 35 years as a volunteer fireman, his older and younger brothers were volunteers.  One brother is at the Nampa ID fire department as an inspector. Randy & I  were both shift rounders.  I had more seniority, he got layed off, but went to work  at Coos Bay.  You can read about Randy    http://rfallenbrother.com


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## TimNY (Jun 4, 2010)

fireguy said:
			
		

> TimNY. so far, the best response. Are you really going to climb on the char broiler & look up the duct and at the filter tracks?  In your white shirt?


Actually, on the left end of the closet rod I have "shirts that must be worn under sweater".  You have to do whatever you can to see as much as you can.  Occassionally that ruins a shirt, but it's the cost of doing business.  Admittedly I am not going to unbolt access panels.  If there is easy access and a flat roof I will tip the fan, which is usually screwed shut.  This is where you find the electrician ran the carflex on the wrong side of the fan and you can't tip it.

Another thing on cleaning, you can't really tell if they are compliant with an annual inspection.  The hoods have to be cleaned as necessary.  I have a mexican restaurant that can go 3 months without cleaning in the winter.  In the summer it has to be cleaned once a month.  As was mentioned, grease on the roof may indicate the frequency of cleaning is not enough.  In my case, the yellow staining on the walls and ceiling of the kitchen was another tell-tale sign  

Just because it's clean when you get there doesn't mean they are complying.


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## FM William Burns (Jun 4, 2010)

> Fireguy:FM Burns, a good response. How do you know the McD pictures they submit are for the McD they claim to have cleaned.


Similar to Builder Bob's response...... The firms that work in our jurisdiction know us and film the address of the establishment, time stamp "as required" and the on-duty Mgr. signs the disk lable that we watch and verify via the firm's latest report on site in the red binder book "as required" by our fire protection and alarm firm ordinance. Additionally, as stated "case by case". When we run into a firm operating in our district that we don't have a current license, we ladder and climb the roof and check after asking their maintenance people to open all access panels and equipment, remove all filters and cover the cooking equipment during the establishment's non-peak hours of operation.

BTW.......is this Dave? If so, you know I don't blame "cleaners" and we're pretty good at what we do when it comes to "firms" working in our bubble of the state.....     My quote exactly...... to our customers....... "You pay for a service and we're here to verify you're getting what you pay for."


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## peach (Jun 5, 2010)

access panels have to be accessible (and yes, there are a few apartments in a high rise that have access panels for just this purpose in a high rise with a restaurant on the 1st floor)..  whether or not they realize what the access panels are for - duct access - is the developer's problem.. but they are required and were installed.

Fireguy.. maintenance of the system the way it was designed and intended to be used is what the annual inspections are for.


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## fireguy (Jun 6, 2010)

FM Burns, I am not Dave, are you speaking of Dave Ott, of Michigan Exhaust Cleaning?  If so , he has a first class operation, cleaning to NFPA 96.  This would be a good time to introduce myself.  My real name is Douglas Hicks, from Eastern Oregon.  I have a small service company, 2 full time techs, and 3 part-time techs.   We do extinguishers, suppression system installs and service, sprinkler service (no installs) and clean exhaust systems. I have installed exhaust systems, but decided I did not have the skills for that job, nor the time to develop the skills.   We also work with an alarm company, subbing alarm work to them.  I  spent 22 years on the end of a hose, as a volunteer and full-time.  I am a member of NFPA, NFSA, NAFED. I also am on the board of Oregon Fire Equipment Distributors, having served as  president and as secretary.

Thank you for responding to my post.  From conversations with an International Kitchen Exhaust Cleaning Association member who is on the board of directors, Las Vegas has a very good inspection program.  It was put into operation within the last year.  Cleaners are to be registered with Clark County FD, jobs are inspected, pictures are to be taken.  Follow-up is done by trained Fire Inspectors. Those contractors whose jobs do not meet requirements are given a chance to try again,  in 30 days.  The job is inspected again.  I understand that not only can the registration be pulled, but in severe cases,  charges of fraud can be levied.  IKECA's website http://www.ikeca.org.  Or phone Tim Shaw @ 301.230.0099 x 12.  IKECA is very interested in helping other jurisdictions in starting an inspection and enforcement program.  Portland OR and Vancouver USA also have some kind of enforcement program.

TimNY, if you enter BryanExhaust.com you see a large grease ball that was removed from an exhaust system.  They have done jobs that required crawling through the ducts.  That does ruin a shirt.


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## FM William Burns (Jun 6, 2010)

Doug,



Yes, thought you might have been Dave from our state and another forum I check into from time to time.  MEC does a great job (from colleague accounts) and I wish they would expand operations to cover our region and market.  We inspectors have to be on our toes as eluded since typically cost is the bottom line.  Personally, I applaud your firm’s desire to provide compliant services and yes, we’ve seen our share of old school non-compliant practices that make it tough for all stakeholders. Our policy is similar to Clark County/LV and we also strive to assure our customers get compliant services since we work for them.  



Keep up the philosophy you have and continue to provide exceptional service and awareness to all served.


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## TimNY (Jun 7, 2010)

Thankfully my duct runs are <30' and none are large enough to crawl in.

That is one heck of a grease ball!


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