# AREA REQUIREMENTS



## drew melillo (Oct 28, 2016)

I have a 53,000 SF floor plate in Type V-A construction.
The maximum is 36,000 SF w/ sprinklers.
I divided it in half with fire walls as per the provisions in Section 706.
Do I now have two separate buildings that require 2 means of egress each?


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## cda (Oct 28, 2016)

Welcome

NBC???   Wow you going to put me on tv??

So which state are you in


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## cda (Oct 28, 2016)

You do not say what occupancy type.

Plus which building code and edition are you in?


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## cda (Oct 28, 2016)

Is it all one owner/ business?


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## drew melillo (Oct 28, 2016)

Use group R2
One owner rental property.
4 floors
245 units


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## drew melillo (Oct 28, 2016)

IBC 2015


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## cda (Oct 28, 2016)

What state are you in?


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## cda (Oct 28, 2016)

Your question got more complicated
R-2
4 floors
245 units

Generally the answer is yes

More than likely wherever the rated wall is, there will have to be a door, and more than likely two, swinging opposite each other.

I need to find the section I found the other day, that might throw a problem into your rated wall. Give me a day


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## mark handler (Oct 28, 2016)

Use a horizontal exit. An exit that allows occupants to egress from one side of a building to another side through a fire-resistance-rated assembly, such as a fire wall or fire barrier.

Also remember travel distances.


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## cda (Oct 28, 2016)

Figure out how it will comply with 706.2!!!!!!!


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## cda (Oct 28, 2016)

cda said:


> Your question got more complicated
> R-2
> 4 floors
> 245 units
> ...






ok not finding the section, I saw the other day, so never mind, unless I stumble across it


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## steveray (Oct 31, 2016)

I would say at least 2 MOE, but it could be more depending on layout. Mark has some good advice, but you can only use horizontal exit for 50% of your exiting typically...


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## cda (Oct 31, 2016)

706.2

Biggie


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## steveray (Oct 31, 2016)

706.2 Structural stability. Fire walls shall be designed and
constructed to allow collapse of the structure on either side
without collapse of the wall under fire conditions. Fire walls
designed and constructed in accordance with NFPA 221 shall
be deemed to comply with this section.

Que?


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## mark handler (Oct 31, 2016)

steveray said:


> ..... Mark has some good advice, but you can only use horizontal exit for 50% of your exiting typically...


*It is the only way large projects are built*





*The use of horizontal exits reduces the number of exit stairs needed by providing additional egress capacity and assists in meeting travel distance limitations.*
http://www.koffel.com/news/Publications/Horizontal_Exits-Dream_or_Nightmare.pdf


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## cda (Oct 31, 2016)

steveray said:


> 706.2 Structural stability. Fire walls shall be designed and
> constructed to allow collapse of the structure on either side
> without collapse of the wall under fire conditions. Fire walls
> designed and constructed in accordance with NFPA 221 shall
> ...





Just wondering how he is going to meet the section, with the building he is proposing


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## mark handler (Oct 31, 2016)

*With fire walls. Rated expansion joints at the "walkway" penetrations [openings]




Note: this detail is not totally correct, Does not meet the fire rating or the smoke and draft and fire stop req. But shows the separation.*


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## mark handler (Oct 31, 2016)

Before I went to the "darkside" of the business, I did a lot of Platform projects.


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## drew melillo (Oct 31, 2016)

Thanks everyone for your assistance.


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## Yikes (Sep 13, 2017)

Follow-up question: is it possible to have a 2-hour single-stud fire wall (fka area separation wall) that can still have a floor collapse on one side without damaging the structural integrity of the wall itself?
How would you do the floor/wall junction detail for WP3910 (below)?


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## steveray (Sep 14, 2017)

You wouldn't....just like Mark's detail, it has a note on the drawing "allowing collapse", but in reality it won't....You can't attach a floor to a firewall...


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## Paul Sweet (Sep 15, 2017)

I'd use something like the U.S. Gypsum Area Separation Wall.
https://www.usg.com/content/usgcom/...-systems/usg-area-separation-wall-system.html

I'm not sure whether you can have pipes, outlets, etc. in the walls shown in earlier posts.


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## Francis Vineyard (Sep 18, 2017)

Yikes said:


> Follow-up question: is it possible to have a 2-hour single-stud fire wall (fka area separation wall) that can still have a floor collapse on one side without damaging the structural integrity of the wall itself?
> How would you do the floor/wall junction detail for WP3910 (below)?



Apparently it's possible; see example below. 

Yikes what is fka?




http://www.uspconnectors.com/pdf/connectors/FWH-sales-sheet.pdf

https://www.strongtie.com/products/go/connectors/firewall-solutions


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## steveray (Sep 18, 2017)

Thanks Francis!....I don't know that I am completely on board with that, but good to look at...

706.2 Structural stability. Fire walls shall have sufficient
structural stability under fire conditions to allow collapse of
construction on either side without collapse of the wall for the
duration of time indicated by the required fire-resistance rating
or shall be constructed as double fire walls in accordance
with NFPA 221.

Unless 221 has some supporting info, tying a floor system into each side of a double stud wall is no bueno to me...


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## Francis Vineyard (Sep 18, 2017)

". . . for the duration of time indicated by the required fire-resistance rating . . ."

"The code is very clear that fire walls should remain in place for the expected time period. Therefore, structural failure on either side of the wall shall not cause the collapse of the wall" during the minimum time period.


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## mark handler (Sep 18, 2017)

Yikes said:


> Follow-up question: is it possible to have a 2-hour single-stud fire wall (fka area separation wall) that can still have a floor collapse on one side without damaging the structural integrity of the wall itself?
> How would you do the floor/wall junction detail for WP3910 (below)?


You do not use "this detail" at a "building separation"
Nor would you use it for a townhouse wall. (a floor collapse on one side without damaging the structural integrity of the wall itself)


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