# Recent fires stir concerns about adequacy of state's fire sprinkler requirements



## beach (Oct 21, 2013)

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> *Recent fires stir concerns about adequacy of state's fire sprinkler requirements*
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## Frank (Oct 24, 2013)

Value put on peoples lives.  Do the residents have an extra few hundred a month for increased rent?

Cost of retrofitting sprinklers in older existing apartment buildings in California that will also trigger the need for lead and asbestos abatement.  I would suspect would end up costing $5000-10000 per unit about $2500-3500 for the sprinkler work and at least that much more for removal and replacement of finishes for access.  The rent increase to cover this would spell the end of affordable housing.  The affected buildings would either be renovated and upscaled or marginal buildings would be abandoned adding to the homeless rolls.


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## jar546 (Oct 24, 2013)

I believe I will sit back and enjoy this conversation that will turn into a debate.  We will all learn something.

opcorn


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## MASSDRIVER (Oct 24, 2013)

"I admit they are not real cheap, but what value do you put on people's lives?"

There's a number.  One of the worst point of arguments ever devised.

Brent


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## tmurray (Oct 24, 2013)

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> "I admit they are not real cheap, but what value do you put on people's lives?" There's a number.  One of the worst point of arguments ever devised.
> 
> Brent


In Canada, last I heard it was 3 million dollars per life saved. If you're looking at billions of dollars in retrofits to save a handful of lives I don't know if anyone but the people who lost a loved one would think that's a good investment. My question is that if sprinklers are so important why are renters not flocking to the buildings that have retrofitted sprinklers? Ultimately this is a justifiable emotional reaction that has no practical reason behind it. The pain and outrage will fade until the next time this happens.


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 24, 2013)

The police are not there to protect the individual and building and fire codes are not written to protect the individual.

So the question is not what is one live worth. The question should be how many lost lives are acceptable before something should be done

T


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## RJJ (Oct 24, 2013)

Well beach seems like you found a debate to start. Sprinklers!:beatdhrs


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 24, 2013)

It is not just about sprinklers

Locking caps on freon lines to keep the huffers from huffing freon out of an AC unit, Is that really a building code issue

 I am sure I can find more "emotionally" driven code sections when I have time to look


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## RJJ (Oct 24, 2013)

MT I agree! The cap thing is not a building code issue. But to have the lock to perhaps prevent the huffers small issue. There are many issues that find there way into codes that stem from emotion driven code changes.


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## jwelectric (Oct 25, 2013)

Don't know how much one life is worth but I know I will give everything I own to save mime of one of my family members from death but alas we all have the promise of death


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## MASSDRIVER (Oct 25, 2013)

jwelectric said:
			
		

> Don't know how much one life is worth but I know I will give everything I own to save mime of one of my family members from death but alas we all have the promise of death


You have unlocked the secret.

Brent.


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## ICE (Oct 25, 2013)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> It is not just about sprinklersLocking caps on freon lines to keep the huffers from huffing freon out of an AC unit, Is that really a building code issue
> 
> I am sure I can find more "emotionally" driven code sections when I have time to look


It's not just freon.

Man huffing propane causes Los Angeles truck explosion - San Jose Mercury News


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## mark handler (Oct 25, 2013)

Frank said:
			
		

> "... also trigger the need for lead and asbestos abatement.


And where do you get that BS

If you don't touch it you do not need abatment


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## Fort (Oct 25, 2013)

mark handler said:
			
		

> If you don't touch it you do not need abatment


Clearly Frank is saying that the process of installing the sprinklers will cause the need for some demolition, patch, and repair. So some amount of testing and abatement may be required, adding to the cost. That is no BS.

But I would not require sprinklers on existing buildings outright. Some jurisdictions have ordinances that they must be added when spending a certain amount of money on remodeling, but that is kind of harsh too.


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## MASSDRIVER (Oct 25, 2013)

mark handler said:
			
		

> And where do you get that BSIf you don't touch it you do not need abatment


You ever build anything? It will get touched.

Brent.


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## mark handler (Oct 25, 2013)

Yes I have built things....

And drilling holes, for pipes, in ceilings, maybe containing Asbestos, does not trigger abatement


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## MASSDRIVER (Oct 25, 2013)

mark handler said:
			
		

> Yes I have built things....And drilling holes, for pipes, in ceilings, maybe containing Asbestos, does not trigger abatement


But standing on things that potentially break or fracture, or disturbing surfaces that contain lead or asbestos, or dropping the pipes you are drilling the holes for, on and on and on.

It happens. A perfectly benign job can rear it's ugly head. And does.

That's why when you threw the BS flag at Frank, it makes me question your actual experience at building. I mean doing it, not looking at it from a job shack.

It is the VERY reason practically any publicly funded endeavor goes over budget 230% of the time.

There is the dirtiest of all foul words at work; "Just".

"Just drill those holes, and don't disturb anything".

Brent.


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