# New Thread - What to recommend to ICC re: Bulletin Board/Forum



## vegas paul

The other thread was getting too long for some to get to the end, so I figured we could start a new one specifically for suggestions for the ICC Bulletin Board/Forum.

Just a recap... Thee ICC sent out a survey (in reponse to everyone deserting the old ICC BB ship!) asking for comments about the ICC website and BB. Subsequently, they invited several of us to participate in a round-table meeting to provide suggestions for the future of the ICC BB. Keep in mind, we met with them in Baltimore and heard lots of promises, but there were no changes, so I'm trying not to be too cynical.

I am going to Denver on Sept. 9/10 for this meeting and I don't want to limit my responses to my ideas only. I would like to have suggestions posted here for all of us to get our ideas across.

My suggestions:


Don't make this a complaint session - i.e. what positive suggestions can we offer them?

If you have no intention of ever going back to the ICC BB, then this is probably not the place to express negative opinions.

Are we as a group, even interested in making the ICC BB something similar to what it once was? If so, then are there any improvements we could suggest?

Anyway, please feel free to let me (or any other participants in the meeting) forward any ideas you have.

Look forward to seeing/meeting some of you there.


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## TJacobs

One would like to think if they are going to spend our money to pay for us to go out there they are serious, so until they prove me wrong I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Maybe we should try to meet as a group Wednesday night and go over the plan.


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## fatboy

I guess my only suggestion would be that there was nothing wrong with the old forum as it was.


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## Uncle Bob

Vegas Paul,

Thanks for starting this thread.

1. Regardless of which type of BB you have; use the same format of listing topics that we had on the old ICC Bulletin Board. It was easy to use; it worked and worked well.

2. Write and set specific rules for the monitors to use. Restrict them to; only taking action when these "specifc rules" are violated. Examples would be personal attacks on other posters, foul language, etc..

3. Add a couple of chat rooms. The addition of chat rooms will;

a. Give members a place to communicate in real time.

b. Allow members to discuss a topic and differeces of opinions; without disrupting the thread.

    Example:  "Ok, Fatboy, let's take it (outside) the chat room."   

c. Reduce confrontations within threads; keeping the Bulletin Board on subject.

d. Allow members to discuss (in real time) muliple subjects; and become more aquainted with each other.

e. Allow members to discuss subjects at length; and present new ideas.

f. Give members a sense of being part of the ICC Family.

Just a few ideas,

Uncle bob


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## Coug Dad

Open it to ICC members and non members *equally*.

Have ICC staff moderators monitor and cite ICC formal interpretations when applicable.


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## north star

** * **

If they are genuinely interested in what we think / want,

how about following Coca-Cola's lead and issue an

apology to all of us.    And not some insincere,  marketing

schpeel...



Also, remove [ permanently ] the requirement for

"paid member" access to the BB, ...similar to what

Coug dad said.



** * **


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## mtlogcabin

Do not incorporate face book or twitter or u-tube as part of the discussion board. These are blocked by most of us in goverment and therefore useless to us.



> cite ICC formal interpretations when applicable


 or provide a direct link to them within the BB


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## Gordon

Go back to their old format. Allow access regardless of membership. Most of us in the corporate world are also blocked from the social networking sites so don't use them.

Yep, just like the "New" Coke-- apologize & go back to the original product.


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## MarkRandall

1.  Open access to everyone!

2.  Besides having access via the web format, provide access with newsreader programs like Outlook Express, Windows Live & Thunderbird. I would follow much closer to any group with usenet interface option


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## pwood

free beer fridays:mrgreen:


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## vegas paul

We'll have a "study session" on Wednesday night when we arrive (I'll be there about 5:45 p.m.).  First round's on me...


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## Uncle Bob

Paul,

You can get there sooner than that; especially if your going to have a meeting. It's only a few hours drive. If you leave at six in the morning; you can be there before 1 AM; and have the sun at your back. Oh, I forgot; your buying the drinks.  

Uncle Bob


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## Uncle Bob

I've been invited; but, deleted post and moved to announcement of meeting; sorry, wrong thread.


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## vegas paul

UB - I'll buy you a Yoo-Hoo or a RC Cola!


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## Uncle Bob

RC Cola and a moon pie.  

You;  Kind Sir, have the hospitality of a true Southern Gentleman.

Uncle Bob


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## fatboy

Since I wasn't invited, I might just have to meet up with you guys Wednesday for the brainstorming session.........oh, and the drinks.


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## Uncle Bob

Fatboy, we can tell them that I don't speak English; and your my interpreter. They will have to let you in.

Here is the agenda and schedule;

General Agenda:

Introductions with ICC Senior Management.

Discuss Customer Feedback to date and solicit more details.

Discuss proposed changes.

Demonstrate a new platform/design and collaborate on improvements.

Discuss ideas for Usage Policy

We need to plan our approach and presentations to coincide with this agenda. If we don't follow the agenda, much of what we propose will be lost, because it is not submitted at the correct time.

If we are not organized; we lose; the ICC forum loses; and ICC loses.

Uncle Bob


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## Uncle Bob

Listen folks,

This is not a Baltimore meeting; it's different folks with different agendas. In Baltimore; ya'll were meeting with the people who removed the forum in the first place; they had already made the decision to get rid of the Bulletin Board; and, that little meet & greet was to brush us off.

This meeting, in Denver, is to bring back, what the ICC lost as a result of removing the old forum; and, the ICC is paying for us to help renew the forum and make it better; and they are paying our expenses because the people at ICC now understand that the Forum was an asset; and, that we are the folks who know how to make it better.

If we attend the meeting with closed minds, a chip on our sholders, bad attitudes, and empty heads (no ideas to contribute); then we are doing the many people we represent a great disservise. They did not invite us the Denver to listen to them. They invited us so they could listen to us.

Now, I'm just an old retired building inspector; but, most of ya'll are leaders. You have positions that deal with enormous responsibilities. Now, is a time to show that leadership; and, represent the thousands of Building Officials, Engineers, Architects, Plan Reviewers, Builders, Contratctors, Corporate Representatives, Inspectors, and others; that contributed to the old Forum; and depended on the old Forum for information and advice. Your not doing this for the ICC; your doing it for these folks.

You all have been to numerous meetings and know what an agenda is; and how to follow it; and, what to contribute at each phase of the agenda. Now, write down the agenda we have been given; and, start writing down presentations that will contribute to the success of our goals; in a professional manner.

We are not there to listen; they are there to listen; and they are paying to here what we have to contribute. If we have nothing to contribute to the goals of the meeting; then we might as well stay home and bitch about how unfair the ICC is.

I'm not asking you to post your ideas here; but, please be prepared to present them at the meeting.  And, have handouts available for those attending.

Uncle Bob


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## mtlogcabin

Well said UB

Demonstrate a new platform/design and collaborate on improvements. this sounds like those in attendance may acually see a new BB that the ICC wants input on before launching JMHO.


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## texasbo

The fact that "they're paying" does not mean that all is well in Cash Cow Land. When someone bends me over, I'm not going to be bought off by the price of a plane ticket.

Now, I'm in no way implying that any of you are so myopic as to have your opinion swayed by a plane ride and a bad meal, but I also think you're naive if you think that holding a meeting and telling you they're "listening" makes up for all previous transgressions.

Let's be careful about wearing those rose-colored glasses just because "they're paying".


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## Frank

I suspect they are looking for real input in that the current ICC website fell flat on its face and did not get back up--this is for a number of reasons that I will get into during the meeting.

This forum has gotten some of the regulars into the discussions but does not have the volumn or public participation of the old ICC BB.

We need to see the ICC succeed in that they are the main code making body left standing.  IAPMO and NFPA have places, but I suspect that if the ICC falls we are looking at a federal code that would be more influenced by lobbying and rent seeking than the current ICC and NFPA processes are.


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## Alias

my 2 cents worth -

1. dump the 'pay to play' idea, equal access for all

2. format new BB like the old BB, easy to navigate; like this board

3. proper 'tagging' on main ICC page - call it like it is, a BB......Communities of Interest my tush.......

Sue


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## Uncle Bob

I've been looking at the addition of chat rooms. You don't have to have them within the organization; you can set them up and link to them (removing responsiblity for content). They make it possible to visit and discuss things in real time; without worrying about taking the original post off subject. It's also a good tool to brain-storm ideas, networking, and to better get to know your peers.

Here is a site I found and joined to see what was involved. It is free and has additional options that you can pay for; but, this is a good example of what you can do.

(be careful if you have a webcam on your laptop; When I signed on, I wasn't wearing a shirt and didn't know that the laptop webcamera was automatic) I had no idea I could still move that fast.  

Join for free and you will see some of the advantages;

http://www.christianchatcity.com/

This is only an example. It would be nice if we could visit in real time.

Just a thought,

Uncle Bob


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## peach

I believe ICC knows what they've lost and they are reaching out to former "senior members" to  work the issues.  I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that.  My ICC membership is important to me - it's a personal credential that not all my competitors have.  The publication discount is nice, but I can get that by way of my employer also.

My membership is "mine".. I'm beholding to anyone else to maintain it.  I'd like to see the old BB to go back to what it was.. but I like it here.  Don't think "they" aren't watching what happens "here".


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## Uncle Bob

How about some of ya'll bringing your camcorders. My daughter took mine. I'll bring a camera; and we can post pictures when we get back.

Oh, and be sure to bring your laptops. I'll put you onto a great place to play Holdem on line (free, play money).  It's live; with real people.  Lot's of fun.

Uncle Bob


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## CowboyRR

You need to understand that the outcome from this effort will still be a site that is owned, operated and managed by ICC - not the ICC members, and not the public. It will not be a "public" forum. So, the ICC will retain the right to jerk posts and ban or suspend people at their whim. This effort to regenerate the ICC forums is not about promoting public safety or providing a benefit to the members. ICC leaders demonstrated their opinion toward members with the way that they dumped the old bbs. Do ICC staff participate on this message board? I think that is telling of  ICC's overall intent. Does anybody remember the IAPMO/PHCC fiasco where the ICC leaders agreed to abandon the governmental consensus process so they could gain market share in the Plumbing Code/Mechanical Code arena? These decisions are not about public safety. The leaders would not retract their position re: IAPMO - the members had to take action. How did the ICC leaders get so far removed from the fundamental expectations of their own membership?

I am convinced by these type of actions that there is a cancer at ICC that needs to be removed before anything good can be done. Issuing an apology for past transgressions is not enough to repair the damage (and good luck getting an apology from leaders that have behaved so arrogantly up to this point). The ICC leaders need to _atone_ for their actions. With regard to the message board I do not know what form atonement should take - but I know it isn't in the form of a new ICC message board. Maybe a nice start would be for ICC to take down their "Communities of Interest" and post a direct link to this message board - then sit back and see how things unfold?

If you are inclined to return to the ICC forums I would urge you to not abandon this site. This is the closest you are going to get to a true "public" forum that does not have to cow-tow to a corporate entity. It has value far beyond anything the ICC - or any other code or standard org. - could ever provide. Keep up the good work!

Sorry if I offended anyone.


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## Uncle Bob

Cowboy,

Your post contained a lot of truths about what has happened in the past; and the ICC's track record is iffy at best.  You can be sure that your input will be represented at the meeting.  We need more input like yours.

Going to the meeting does not mean that we are going to capitulate.  It means that we are going to present what we beleive an ICC Bulletin Board should look like and how it should be run.  A lot of what you have stated will be presented at the meeting in Denver.

We need more input from those who have experience with the old BB and the new BB.

How about ya'll giving us examples of experiences they have had with the new BB.

Thanks,

Uncle Bob


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## TJacobs

Just from my knowledge of the quality of attendees from this board going to the meeting, I do not envision us being sweet-talked into submission.

Keep the posts coming because so far they have brought up many useful points for us to bring to Denver.


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## Mac

My little village - and I - aren't about to become an ICC Member. The local chapter of the state building officials group IS an ICC chapter.

Open the boards up to all. That was it's best feature, IMHO.


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## ewenme

CowboyRR:  My father used to say, "If the fish smells, the head is rotten." He generally used that phrase when discussions turned to politics. I think the same could be said for most large corporations.


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## Uncle Bob

I don't think a lot of you "nay sayers" understand the influence we have had on the old BB; and, fear that if we succeed; then this forum will be abandoned.

Nothing is further from the truth. This forum will benefit and flourish with an open ICC BB.

The new ICC Community Craper does delete posts that the moderator objects too.

The old BB did not. Even though we were extremely critical of the ICC in many of our threads; they were not deleted. I know, because I wrote many of the criticisms and they are still there in the archives.

The removal of the old ICC BB was a move by a few ICC leaders that had the power to do so. We offended a small new group of leaders; and they retaliated. It's not important who; so please do not start on that snipe hunt. It's just important that we are aware of what really happened.

Will it happen again, if we get the old ICC BB back like it was? Maybe, and maybe they have learned an important lesson. The old BB was an asset to the ICC.

The old ICC BB brought many people to the ICC website; including builders, contractors, architects, engineers, corporate reps, organizational reps and their technical advisors, building officials, inspectors, plans examiners; and people from other forums seeking answers to problems they face.

We were the place to go for answers; and, free exchange of ideas; and, I beleive the ICC has seen a link between the loss of the open BB and lose of interest and revenue.

We are going to give it a shot; and, we ask for your help. We will do our best; with, or without your support. If we fail; then at least we tried.

If you want to just give up; go ahead. It's so dam easy; and you don't have to do anything.

Uncle Bob


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## mtlogcabin

How about a help menu I have never been able to post a picture on the olb BB.


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## Uncle Bob

MLC,

Great idea. we did help each other with pictures.  I sent a lot of members to photobucket and it worked well.

But, a help menu is an excellent idea.

Thanks,

Uncle Bob


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## conarb

\ said:
			
		

> The new ICC Community Craper does delete posts that the moderator objects too.The old BB did not.


Uncle Bob:

That is true, I went there when it was relatively new and posted a simple thread asking where I could find ICBO Legacy reports, specifically I was interested in DuPont's original ICBO Report approving Tyvek as an air barrier and not a WRB, the thread was not only not addressed it was immediately taken down.  That tells that they were protecting their manufacturers with a heavy hand, I think the main reason the old Board was taken down was that they had lost control, and in the new world order of codes they wanted complete control.



			
				\ said:
			
		

> Will it happen again; if we get the old ICC BB back like  it was? Maybe, and maybe they have learned an important lesson. The old  BB was an asset to the ICC.


The old software was (is) very outmoded, for some reason lots of fora owners seem to think that they have to use the latest and greatest software, but usually to make room for advertising, the problem there was that was not the reason since their new format doesn't accept advertising (particularly Google AdSense), so additional income was not their motivation.  I think it's going to be very hard to convince them to just bring the old board back, I think the main reason I wasn't invited to Denver was that in my response to their E-mail I emphasized just bringing the old format back.

MLC:

I think it is actually easier to post images in UBB Code in the older software, these new HTML/UBB hybrid formats just make it more difficult for anyone who knows what he is doing.


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## CowboyRR

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> I don't think a lot of you "nay sayers" understand the influence we have had on the old BB; and, fear that if we succeed; then this forum will be abandoned.I am not a "nay sayer" - I just know that the bbs issue is merely a symptom of a larger problem.
> 
> Nothing is further from the truth. This forum will benefit and flourish with an open ICC BB.
> 
> Glad to hear this forum will remain as it will be the only means of fair, open discussion.
> 
> The removal of the old ICC BB was a move by a few ICC leaders that had the power to do so. We offended a small new group of leaders; and they retaliated. It's not important who; so please do not start on that snipe hunt. It's just important that we are aware of what really happened.
> 
> I can read this to say that ICC leadership already addressed this matter - or not? Who ordered the unannounced elimination of the old bbs is extremely important because this is not just an issue of the old bbs - it is about the overall leadership of the organization and where they are driving it - IAPMO/PHCC....new code books (a swimming pool code? really? gimme a break)....new certifications.....jumping into Federal politics, etc.  At some point we need to realize this can only get fixed if we get to the source.
> 
> If you want to just give up; go ahead. It's so dam easy; and you don't have to do anything.
> 
> I applaud for working to right the ship. I don't see this as an issue of "giving up". I do see it as an issue of focus. This is a great board - the only thing gained by having this type of medium under ICC is access to their resources. (Why not have ICC contribute their resources into this site instead?) ICC needs to focus on re-connecting with core principles - it needs to do so with humility, appreciation for the membership and their needs and expectations, listening and atonement for their past mistakes. They need to willingly embrace the changes needed to fix the mess they have created - and these would be big changes. I see the meeting in Denver as an opportunity to express these opinions and expose to "leaders" that members see this BBS subject as just a small piece of a much deeper problem. I am hopeful that you will succeed in getting some portion of this message across. I suspect there will be no real concern for these issues and you will quickly be re-directed to stay on task with ideas to improve the "Communities of Interest".
> 
> A final example - I listened to part of the President's Fireside Chat from the last conference. A member asked the ICC CEO if ICC had any plans to help those members that had lost jobs due to the economic downturn. The CEO replied that those members need to pay to keep their certifications current. I can think of no better example of the root problem at ICC. The arrogance and complete disrespect of that statement was both appalling and shameful. I appreciate that ICC has little ability to help laid off code officials but could you ever imagine that the CEO would turn it into a commercial to ask those that have lost their jobs to write a check to the ICC? I was totally disgusted. In fact, my first thought was maybe ICC could renew certs at no charge for these folks - at least for a limited time. I'm just not that interested in contributing to the org. when I see this type of behavior coming from the top - and I used to be a very active contributor.
> 
> btw, I do like some of the ideas others have shared for forum improvements.


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## ewenme

UB:

I don't think there are many nay-sayers in the group here, but we do have some skeptics. Once bitten, twice wary. I really like the old ICC BB, and the webmaster there was one of the best. I gave him kudos whenever I could, and he appreciated it. I imagine his was a pretty thankless job. I won't abandon this outlet because I like it. Whether or not I use the 'new and improved ICC BB' will depend on how improved it becomes. Right now it is just useless and not worth the time. I find answers here to questions, and get insights on most topics that I read, whether or not I make comments. That is this beauty of this site:  easy to use; timely; non-judgmental [for the most part]; and full of camraderie and consolation and encouragement. Those would be the things I would suggest for the ICC BB.  Free use promotes free discussion. They had it all and now they want it back. I remember when ICC BB hit 10,000 posts and it was a big deal to those participating. Look at far this BB has come in a short period of time. For all the right reasons this BB is here because it works. I would love to be a fly on the wall at your confab with ICC. I do hope you'll share insights and experiences for the rest of us who can't be there.


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## conarb

It would be nice to know the terms of settlement of the NFPA/ICBO litigation, it's probably confidential, yet they may be laboring under those terms.


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## packsaddle

I know this meeting is only about the discussion board, but tell ICC these are my terms if they want me to return:

1.  get out of bed with the federal government (or you'll wake up with fleas)

2.  abandon the advancement of "green" codes and "energy" codes (and replace them with basic life safety principles)

3.  reduce the word count of each code book by 1/2 (eliminate all superfluous regulatory requirements)

4.  hire employees and elect leaders with actual private sector experience (former FEMA employees need not apply)

5.  drop the "non-profit" status and get out here and mix it up with the competition (consumers receive better products in a free market)

6.  distance yourselves from special interest groups (they only care about their own wants and needs)

7.  provide a discussion board that encourages fellowship and collaboration (less complaining, more solutions)

8.  require ICC leadership to participate in periodic discussions on the forum (include it in their job descriptions)

9.  limit the amount of cencorship on the discussion board (yes, ICC will be bashed, but often necessarily so)

I have many more but my fingers are tired of typing.


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## Mech

I think it would be nice if the ICC would help answer the questions that are posted or if they would mark the correct answer somehow, rather than possibly let the question go unanswered or even worse - answered incorrectly.

I'd love to read a transcript or hear a recording of the discussions. Do you think they would do streaming audio and/or video for those who did not get invited or could not attend?  I didn't think so either.


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## Uncle Bob

Well, I was wrong about one thing;

I stated: "This is not a Baltimore meeting; it's different folks with different agendas."

This is the Gentleman who invited us to Denver. Note the date: March 27, 2007.

------------------------------------------------------------

*Industry News*

_Posted: __March 27, 2007_

*ICC Hires New Head of Member Services Team, Prepares for Codes Forum in May*

As part of an organizational restructuring to provide enhanced services to members, the International Code Council (ICC) named Michael Armstrong Senior Vice President of its Member Services Division. The division includes membership, training and education, certification, and meeting and travel services.

"The new Member Services Division, by incorporating training, certification, member support and meetings, will have customer service as its primary mission," said Armstrong. "Our division plans to leverage our skills and relationships across the ICC family to provide support that is responsive and relevant to the needs of our customers."

----------------------------------------------------

Opps,

Uncle Bob


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## texasbo

What a great post Bob; I'm glad you found that. Michael Armstrong should be fired. Should have been fired a long time ago. If he was hired to "provide enhanced services to members", he is a miserable failure. How in the world is he still employed?

And yes, I am a naysayer regarding this issue, and I'm not ashamed of it. And yes, I understand the impact this site has had on the ICC BB.

It's just that I have the opinion that members of the group will go to Denver for this little lovefest, and get paid lip service that all will be well. Then everybody returns to the ICC BB and over time it will spiral into the same mess that it is now. I'm not concerned that this site will be abandoned; I'm afraid that we will get suckered by ICC, again.

We have bloodied their nose, but we haven't won the fight, and I'm not through fighting, and I'm not willing to shake hands and pretend everything will be fine just yet.

CowboyRR and some others have made some of the most profound comments I've ever seen in the codes forum. The BB is just a symptom of a much greater disease. I for one am not going to be seduced by empty promises, and I'm not willing to embrace ICC until there is a change in the organizational culture.


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## packsaddle

Michael Armstrong

Michael Armstrong is the Senior Vice President for Member Services at the International

Code Council (ICC), and is a Visiting Professor at The George Washington University,

Washington, D.C., instructing in the Crisis, Emergency and Risk Management

Concentration in the Graduate Program of the School of Engineering Management and

Systems Engineering. At the Code Council, he oversees 70 staff in seven departments

that support the functions of training, certification and testing, member support,

communication, marketing and meetings. The ICC is a non-profit organization with a

customer base that includes state and local code officials, building contractors, federal

agencies, architects, and strategic partner organizations working in various facets of the

building safety community.

Mr. Armstrong has a diverse career background spanning the fields of journalism, law,

politics, government management, and consulting. His past work includes: four years as

a reporter and editor for several Colorado newspapers; 10 years as an Assistant City

Attorney in Aurora, Colorado, with an emphasize on code enforcement, land use and

human resources; *seven years as an appointee of President Clinton at the Federal*

*Emergency Management Agency*, as the Region VIII Director in Denver and the Senateconfirmed

Associate Director for Mitigation; and over five years as a management

consultant specializing in homeland security strategic planning for ICF International. He

*also served as Executive Director of the Colorado Democratic Party*, and as the Deputy

Director of the Colorado Governor’s Office of Energy Conservation.

Mr. Armstrong holds a Bachelor of Arts in English and a Bachelor of Science in

Journalism from the University of Colorado at Boulder, and a Juris Doctorate from the

Pepperdine University School of Law, Malibu, California where he served on the Law

Review.

During his tenure as a consultant at ICF International, his clients included the Governor

of Louisiana (post-Katrina rebuilding); the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (food

safety preparedness); the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (critical infrastructure

protection, capabilities planning); and the metropolitan areas of Seattle, Los Angeles and

Washington, D.C. (homeland security strategic planning, exercises, and public/private

partnerships). While at FEMA, he managed national programs addressing risk reduction

ranging from grant programs to partnerships with the scientific community and private

sector. He also provided oversight for FEMA response, recovery, mitigation and

preparedness activities in a six-state region, and headed efforts to reinvent the agency’s

community outreach and employee performance activities.

Mr. Armstrong has been published in a variety of periodicals and journals, and

participated in numerous media interviews, Congressional testimony, and guest lectures.

He is admitted to the practice of law in Colorado and before the U.S. Supreme Court.


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## texasbo

A bio like that, and yet he is responsible for the abortion that passes as member services at ICC. A couple of things come to mind, and neither are good. Is it possible that he is either spending most of his time professoring, lawyering, publishing, or "networking", or could he have risen through the ranks for reasons other than competence...?

In my opinion he should have been fired a long time ago.


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## jar546

You can be as smart as humanly possible but not have any business sense or common sense for that matter.


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## packsaddle

deleted by author


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## RJJ

I applaud the effort of those that are going to make the trip. I miss the old BB it had some fine moments, lots of knowledge and for a time served a purpose. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to put the tooth paste back in the tube. Under that thought I have no real suggestions and I believe those from this site will be smart enough to see through any ponzi scheme put forth.

I believe the follow up posts may have great expectations, but the cash cow is on a inexorable path of ego, prestige and fill my personal pockets with gold in the name of life safety, preface with save the planet. Their direction dovetails many of the agendas on the national landscape today. It will take nothing short of a major effort on all code people to bring change.


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## CowboyRR

He is not the only ICC "leader" that has this background. Read the bios off the web site - the problem is at the top layer. I don't care so much about having a private sector background - but I do care about being connected to the members. The ICC execs are not connected to the members and the elected ICC leaders are either too intimidated or incompetent to address the problem. While you're over on the ICC site looking up bios - take a glance at the BOD meeting minutes - very sad.


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## RJJ

CowboyRR: I agree! Sad Indeed!


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## Uncle Bob

For those that already bought airline tickets (I'm driving); I hope you got the "refundable" ticket. After reading this thread; and, they are reading this thread; we might find the meeting is cancelled at the last minute.

By the way; I've been wondering why Denver was chosen. I can't find anything on the ICC site about the meeting. Does ICC have a Denver office?

Uncle Bob


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## north star

*+  +  +  +*

It might be an assassination meeting!    

Nobody drink the Kool Aid, ...eeeerrr,  the beer,

...eeeerrr,  the liquor, ...eeeerrr,  the iced tea,

...eeeerr,  the water,  ...eeeerrr anything. 



*+  +  +  +*


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## texasbo

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> and, they are reading this thread


I hope so. Specifically, I hope whoever Michael Armstrong reports to is reading it.

Isn't it ironic that anybody can read, and even participate in "our" bulletin board?


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## RJJ

Enjoy my membership money you all! No office in Denver! My guess is that Denver was chosen because it is a mile high and there won't be any trace of the hot air rising in the oxygen depleted sky over the city.


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## TJacobs

This happened the last time I flew into Denver:

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/11/27/us/fire-is-contained-at-denver-airport.html

http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR91-07.pdf


----------



## fatboy

I suspected Denver was picked due to the geographical neutralness of a it, and being larger city/airport. I think it's good that they are opening up dialog. But I will be even more P.O.'ed if nothing comes of this and it was a massive waste of money. (see RJJ's recent comments)

And yes, I hope they are reading these forums, daily. When they shut down the old forum with pretty much a "screw you all" attitude, it ticked a lot of folks off, including me. If the old forum is reinstated, or made even better, I would pop in, but this is my "go too" site, and will be until it is ever shut down.


----------



## packsaddle

Logic 101:

FEMA leadership is a failure.

ICC hires FEMA leadership.

Therefore, ICC leadership is a failure.


----------



## Uncle Bob

I'm think, that when the ICC reps read these threads; they don't realize that the people writing these posts are; for the most part, responsible professionals (not counting me); Buidling Officials, Master Code Professionals, Engineers, Architects, and others with many years of experience and expertise.

Probably why they don't appreciate the seriousness of what is said here.  The problem is they don't take us seriously; and that may be their downfall.

That and hiring outsiders who have zero knowledge of code administration and application.

Uncle bob


----------



## RJJ

Pack: I would only agree in part! There are good people at ICC. There was an original scope and direction for a one code group organization. This original idea has been lost! They are loosing members and defending issues.

Problem is that those in power have made poor decisions. The closing of the old BB is just a minor one. I believe you will find members that feel the same as we do, all over the country. It is just not organized yet! AND I MEAN YET! The rank and file sheep that follow blindly will still pay the dues and buy the books etc. We also have all fallen into this trap, however, some are starting to raise questions. Maybe a little late,but nonetheless ICC is battling issues on many fronts. Texasbo stated we have blooded their nose. Jp has threatened to kick them in the brass. Denver,may be interesting. My feeling is that if they make the wrong move, problems will just accelerate. Remember we have the power if ink, or in today's terms cyberspace.


----------



## texasbo

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> I'm think, that when the ICC reps read these threads; they don't realize that the people writing these posts are; for the most part, responsible professionals (not counting me); Buidling Officials, Master Code Professionals, Engineers, Architects, and others with many years of experience and expertise.Probably why they don't appreciate the seriousness of what is said here.  The problem is they don't take us seriously; and that may be their downfall.
> 
> That and hiring outsiders who have zero knowledge of code administration and application.
> 
> Uncle bob


If they realize nothing else, they should realize that we are also voting members who have and will work hard to get members on and off the Board.


----------



## peach

I doubt they'll kill us..


----------



## north star




----------



## RJJ

Peach: They may not kill you, but make sure you cover UB"6.

North Star: I don't disagree  with you often, but not updating codes, renewing memberships will not serve us well or the public we in the end serve. This is a large fish and it will take a great deal of tack to land it. The beginning part is the discussion and raising issue that we can agree on and attract other with similar mind sets to join and raise the bar.


----------



## north star

** * **

RJJ,

I just do not see a reason for ICC to change, ...other than a financial one.

It has cost a ton of money for ICC to get where they are today. What

do you think, is going to encourage them to change?

** * **


----------



## RJJ

The only thing that will change the system is enough votes on the floor to elect responsible people into position that can bring change. Not an easy task!


----------



## conarb

RJJ:

What about all the government members here getting together and sponsoring several of our own for membership on the Board?

I nominate Uncle Bob and Packsaddle.


----------



## packsaddle

thanks, but not interested.


----------



## Uncle Bob

Uncle Bob found and posted earlier;

_*March 27, 2007*_

*ICC Hires New Head of Member Services Team, Prepares for Codes Forum in May*

*As part of an organizational restructuring **to provide enhanced services to members**, the International Code Council (ICC) named* *Michael Armstrong Senior Vice President of its Member Services Division*. The division includes membership, training and education, certification, and meeting and travel services.

"The new Member Services Division, by incorporating training, certification, member support and meetings, will have customer service as its primary mission," said Armstrong. "Our division plans to leverage our skills and relationships across the ICC family to provide support that is responsive and relevant to the needs of our customers."

The more I think about this guy being in charge when the old BB was jerked out from under us; the more disappointed I get in myself for not researching this earlier.

I must be slowing down,

Uncle Bob


----------



## RJJ

CA: You make me LOL! And I need that this morning in a big way!

 I believe we would need to consider many things first. Not to say UB and Pack are not good choices.

All fun aside, I would say that a board position is quite a commitment. It is a post of extreme responsibility and should not be considered lightly. I applaud those who have chosen to sever as Board members and all that work at ICC. It has many fine elements. We may bash and complain and raise questions for change, but we need to understand the full element of the organization. I don't think we are ready for such an undertaking. There is much work to do in order to achieve such a goal. A candidate for office may not even be a part of this BB yet or there may be one among us. I believe we must define our goals, a mission and the first part of that will begin with those going to Denver. Then we will need majority of us to agree and commit on working forward to achieve those goals.

Further, the most important thing we can do now is to reach out to others we know and bring them to the BB. I am sure we all know other members of ICC that are not players here. Some are busy and some don't care what happens while some are just not informed.

If ICC will not provide remote voting, we can provide the first part of the link to get that accomplished. We still need numbers.


----------



## Yankee

Why is it that there are no (is not) any participation on this board by any ICC staff acting/posting in thier official capacities?


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## fatboy

aaaaaaaa, because that would be them acknowleging our existence? They didn't get involved with their own BB, (the old one) other than the Moderator.


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## texasbo

Yankee said:
			
		

> Why is it that there are no (is not) any participation on this board by any ICC staff acting/posting in thier official capacities?


Maybe they're not sure they would be welcome. Has anyone extended an invitation? I agree; it would be nice to have them here, and I'm sure everyone would welcome them, although the questions and comments would be many, and intense.

 But they never even really participated much on their own board, other than to yank posts they didn't like.


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## fatboy

"Fatboy said most of what I said while I was typing. "

Dontcha hate when that happens!


----------



## Uncle Bob

There was one ICC employee who posted on the old BB (mostly mechanical). I believe his handle was "dsjtecserv" or something like that. He corrected me on several occasions when I screwed up. I do miss the old grouch. It's like he would wait for me to screw up and then pounce.  

Uncle Bob


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## CowboyRR

Yankee said:
			
		

> Why is it that there are no (is not) any participation on this board by any ICC staff acting/posting in thier official capacities?


A few guesses:

1) There is no financial benefit to ICC to for doing so, and

2) They would not be able to claim plausible deniability for all the issues that have been noted, and

3) Doing so would promote the legitimacy of this board and the members concerns, and

4) They have already own & operate a member forum where you can go ask these questions, and

5) See #1


----------



## Yankee

CowboyRR said:
			
		

> A few guesses:1) There is no financial benefit to ICC to for doing so, and
> 
> 2) They would not be able to claim plausible deniability for all the issues that have been noted, and
> 
> 3) Doing so would promote the legitimacy of this board and the members concerns, and
> 
> 4) They have already own & operate a member forum where you can go ask these questions, and
> 
> 5) See #1


Well that's just dumb when what is needed is fearlessness.


----------



## conarb

Uncle Bob:

"dsjtecserv" is not connected in any way to the ICC, his name is David S. Johnston, in real life he is the Technical Director for the Vinyl Siding Institute of America, in his own time he is quite a talented photographer. At one time in the past he did serve on a Board on the NFPA chairing their gas and fuels section, he is quite knowledgeable on gas and fuel codes.  Where we ran into him was during the sprinkler debates on the old Board, when we were attacking plastic pipe in sprinkler systems he would be called in as the hatchet man to defend the indefensible, cheap plastic.  The man is an enigma, how any man can be a talented photographer and work for the plastic siding industry is beyond me, even the environmentalists are challenging all plastic products, yet the Vinyl Siding Institute and Mr. Johnston claim it's, get ready for this, *"GREEN"*. 

BTW, to give credit where credit is due, it was RJJ a few years back who did the research and told me who "dsjtecserv" really was.


----------



## Frank

conarb said:
			
		

> RJJ:What about all the government members here getting together and sponsoring several of our own for membership on the Board?
> 
> I nominate Uncle Bob and Packsaddle.


The board is already composed of active and one retired govenrmental members.  Most are local building officals or department directors.

http://www.iccsafe.org/AboutICC/directors/Pages/default.aspx


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## RJJ

I have had many visits to his site and he has a good deal of talent with a camera! Have not had the chance to meet him yet.

ICC members do come on the site. They are under the radar, but they leave tracks!

Yes we have invited them and I left a post a while back for Dominic to come on. They would be welcome as any one else is welcome. My feeling is the action here is free flowing and not a script and my be something they don't want to do. We have also had a few x employees. NO NAMES will be used either screen or real.  Believe me they are watching and reading. For the life of me I don't know why!


----------



## texasbo

RJJ said:
			
		

> .  Believe me they are watching and reading. For the life of me I don't know why!


Could it be that they want to see how a forum looks when it isn't run by someone whose "singular objective is to enhance the customer experience"...


----------



## CowboyRR

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> Uncle Bob found and posted earlier;The more I think about this guy being in charge when the old BB was jerked out from under us; the more disappointed I get in myself for not researching this earlier.
> 
> I must be slowing down,
> 
> Uncle Bob


Stop kicking yourself UB - you already have the ICC to do that for you! LOL


----------



## CowboyRR

Frank said:
			
		

> The board is already composed of active and one retired govenrmental members.  Most are local building officals or department directors.http://www.iccsafe.org/AboutICC/directors/Pages/default.aspx


I think RJJ's point is that these folks are not getting the job done - and we should support somebody that will refuse to drink the "special punch" when they get elected. Unfortunately there is no true accountability for the BOD. If there were, then I doubt the current officers (and several of the other BOD members) would be in the positions they hold - and certainly many of the previous officers would have been "fired" long ago. They keep themselves cloaked pretty deep - thus my point about reading their minutes - there is NO transparency in what they do.


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## jpranch

View attachment 415

	

		
			
		

		
	
Been out of the office. 2,300 miles and $2,100 of repairs, hotels, food and fuel later... Well, anyway. A lot of good stuff here. But we must keep in mind that this Denver thing will just focus on their failed BB + nothing. Sure the cow has many, many problems / issues. But they most likely will not be discussed in Denver. For those that will be attending: I would ask that Uncle Bob take the leed in organizating us on Wednesday night. UB, I ask this for many reasons. I'll pm you here shortly. What say you all? Post Script: Do you think the icc modators would delete my posts? LOL PPS: Just noticed that this thread has 1,115 views. I find that quite interesting. rjj, how many from icc?

View attachment 184


View attachment 185


View attachment 184


View attachment 185


/monthly_2010_08/REVENGE..jpg.7e73d2f855eec84a367e9290be3f70b1.jpg

/monthly_2010_08/COW.jpg.db6f0bdcaeb7b62a560bc3428297108d.jpg


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## RJJ

JP: A few that I know of and Jeff just let me know of another this morning. He is much better a flying this thing then I am. I am still learning how all this high tech stuff works. So if the lights go out it might of been me pushing the wrong button.

Texasbo: This is everybody's site. The only rules are be respectful of others. Agree to disagree! No Politics or religious bashing. Jeff had a few more but I have forgotten them. Most importantly we are pretty much free to debate on topics, just keep in mind that it is sponsored By Jeff. So we must not do something offensive with those that employee him no one should create an issue that would cause embarrassment.

This has been a really live thread along with some others. ICC is our code base. We need to find ways to bring the organization into some type of order. We need to keep pressing. Yes Denver is about the BB, but it should provide a guide of just how wide the void really is.


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## jpranch

"Yes Denver is about the BB, but it should provide a guide of just how wide the void really is. "

Point well taken. Thanks rjj


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## mtlogcabin

Ther are many post on the "Communities of Interest" board that direct people to this site which are still there for what ever reason.

I suggest they just provide a link to this site along with the archive BB post and scrap their "Communities of Interest". It could be a win win for them. They don't have to spend  money they don't have to fix something they broke, Admit they messed up but there is a place equal or better to refer their customers to. Nothing wins back respect for an individual or organization quicker then admitting a mistake and then bending over backwards to ammend it


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## Uncle Bob

Back on track,

I'll bring my printer in case we want to print or make copies of anything for the meeting. 

They did not change the format of the ICC BB because of cost or not being able to maintain it. PHPBB was what they were using and is "FREE" and still a very popular BB format.

I believe some of the reasons for closing the old BB; were the big spitting contest over the sprinklers, exposing the payola for attending the Mini-soda hearings, and some of youse guys bad mouthing the ICC and their new fearless leader.

We will have to deal with the above at the meeting. We just need to decide how best to address those issues; before they come up.

The ICC folks have already informed us that they have a list of grievances that former members and readers of the old BB sent them (about the change) and wrote on the forum; that will be brought up at the meeting. We need to be prepared.

(whisper) _There is a way we can record the meeting without creating a problem_.

For the record; I am a retired inspector; and an instigator, agitator, originator, and bloviator. I have the least credintials of anyone who will be attending. JP just wants to use my room to smoke cigars and spill drinks so I'll get in trouble.

Things to think about,

Uncle Bob


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## fatboy

"The ICC folks have already informed us that they have a list of grievances and problems that will be brought up at the meeting. We need to be prepared."

Grievances and problems with us? The membership using the forum? Granted there were some lively exchanges there, but the Might Mod Dude was usually pretty on top of it. And if they don't like that sometimes folks expressed their disatisfaction with any given part of the org., well, I guess you can call that censorship. But problems with us? i hope I am misunderstanding you UB.

I don't smoke cigars, but I'll be happy to help JP spill drinks.............


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## Uncle Bob

Fatboy,

I think they have recieved complaints about the old bb being dropped and our complaints while on the old bb. I think they want us to expand on the complaints they recieved and precieved and explain our conserns with the new BB. Not, their complaints; but, as they decided to crack down on the BB; we need to be prepared to address that.

Hope to see you there.

Sorry about the mixup,

Uncle Bob


----------



## RJJ

I going home now! LOL!LOL!LOL! I needed that UB. You forgot a few ators! I suggest you all take a bag of fish heads in one of those big plastic bags, cause if the meeting room doesn't stink enough you can always add a little flavor!


----------



## fatboy

Oh, OK.........me jumping to conclussions........I'm prone to that every now and then.


----------



## peach

I have hope for ICC... I renewed my membership yesterday.. and they gave me a code book.. cool..

I believe they are having more sensitivity to those of us who have supported and continue to support them.. listening to us.

I'm looking forward to this meeting... I try to listen more than I speak.. at least initially..


----------



## Yankee

Godspeed . . . . .


----------



## jpranch

peach, "sensitivity" ? Sorry but I'm thinking not. Given their recent history?

I'll be getting into the hotel about 3pm. You all know where to find me. I'm a little sawed off short runt. Glasses, blond hair and a cowboy hat.

I'm sure (certain) they are reading all these posts.

I really respect what MT posted:

 "Nothing wins back respect for an individual or organization quicker then admitting a mistake and then bending over backwards to ammend it "

Respect: Hard won and easily lost. Think on it...


----------



## Uncle Bob

Yankee,

"Why is it that there are no (is not) any participation on this board by any ICC staff acting/posting in thier official capacities?"

1. They don't know enough about the codes to contribute useful knowledge.

2. Visitors to the forum would "mistakenly assume" that their answers were correct and official ICC interpretations.

3. They couldn't stand the pressure; and the ICC health benefits would be bankrupted.

4. They would get their feelings hurt and demand that this forum be closed.

Thanks for the blessing,

Uncle Bob


----------



## CowboyRR

jpranch said:
			
		

> Respect: Hard won and easily lost. Think on it...


For me this has much more to do with Trust. I do not trust ICC leadership. How does one rebuild trust after they have lost it? They need to develop a plan with that as the goal - they need to obtain member input and approval of that plan before implementation- and they need to be accountable for making the plan work. If the plan succeeds then the ICC leaders need to thank the membership and not praise themselves - if it fails they need to turn the reigns over to somebody else. I want the ICC to succeed by serving the public and the members - not serving the personal and political ambitions of the ICC leaders.


----------



## RJJ

UB: #2 is spot on!

      #1 Don't agree. There are people within ICC that know the codes and work and read them daily. Maybe not in the field.

      #3 What pressure. You are free to read, learn and comment. You are free to post if you have something to add or have a different view. I am amazed at times of the different views and experience. This is perhaps the biggest thing we share. In that, is a major shortcoming for ICC staff and employees. They are limited in the scope of expression and thought most likely from some type of corporate policy. Thus they become sterile in the mind and expression in the sake of maintaining employment.

If my employer were to try and bridle my thoughts I would bid him good day and move on. There is always a time to speak ones mind. Sometime we must learn discretion and not create embarrassment, we must always comply to an employer's wishes. If those wishes conflict with our mind set neither the employee nor the Boss's are  served. We all have experienced these situation and have learned to deal with them. Those that have been removed from ICC are perhaps the stray sheep. Most often, when a cloud of suppression is in place real productivity and creativity is lost. Then you have a staff of zombies.

#4. first part: TS second part won't happen


----------



## Yankee

I don't disagree that there are issues within and around ICC and a lot of that has to do with the "big business" atmosphere/goal, and much of that has to do with the former 10 years of false expectations with the economy.

Ok, so, now we are all slapped down a bit now.

I followed the link to look at the BOD and I see a group of people who are riding the ICC mechanical bull, and from past experiences on other boards I can only say "walk a mile in their shoes" and then criticize.

My gut feeling is that 90% of the BOD are JUST LIKE US.


----------



## CowboyRR

Yankee said:
			
		

> I don't disagree that there are issues within and around ICC and a lot of that has to do with the "big business" atmosphere/goal, and much of that has to do with the former 10 years of false expectations with the economy. Ok, so, now we are all slapped down a bit now.
> 
> I followed the link to look at the BOD and I see a group of people who are riding the ICC mechanical bull, and from past experiences on other boards I can only say "walk a mile in their shoes" and then criticize.
> 
> My gut feeling is that 90% of the BOD are JUST LIKE US.


I will agree that they STARTED out like us - but they most definitely NOT like us. They typically want to be on the BOD so they can make a difference - but have you ever studied what is involved with being a BOD member? Look it up? They don't publish a manual, and their communications are locked down between themselves and ICC exec leadership. So the new BOD members get there with no concept of what they have just gotten themselves into. There is a big difference between getting elected and doing the work of the BOD-which is why I want MORE transparency from the BOD and the ICC exec leaders. Their meeting minutes are lacking on purpose - they have been chastised in the past for the lack of info in those minutes and they REFUSE to expand them. I have been close enough to see and hear them to know that they are walking down a path THEY chose and create - they get what they deserve based on those choices.


----------



## FyrBldgGuy

Where is Hazmatpoobah?  Where did they dump the electronic body?


----------



## TJacobs

Folks, let's not forget that ICC does not "write" the codes.  They publish what "we" say is the code.  They keep track of the proceedings and such but they are just the recording secretary.  Maybe the problem is that they have lost sight of that mission and what they really see themselves doing is "creating" the code.  Any thoughts?


----------



## Daddy-0-

Cowboy,

My boss is on the BOD and you would be hard pressed to find a more honest, straight forward and good boss. I know that at least one of them is honest. This may be the exception though.


----------



## jpranch

Daddy-O. No doubt. I know one on the bod. That person has the same concerns voiced on this site. I know many that work within the organization. Same concerns. How in the heck can a train get so, so, far off the tracks with so, so, many people of good consience working for AND members of the same?

Learned many years ago... follow the money.


----------



## Uncle Bob

Why was my other thread closed? I've reread it several times and cannot find anything offensive. Please, someone PM me, at least and tell me why.

I've never had a thread "Closed/Locked" before.

If anyone was offended; please delete the whole thread.

Uncle Bob


----------



## RickAstoria

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> I've been looking at the addition of chat rooms. You don't have to have them within the organization; you can set them up and link to them (removing responsiblity for content). They make it possible to visit and discuss things in real time; without worrying about taking the original post off subject. It's also a good tool to brain-storm ideas, networking, and to better get to know your peers.Here is a site I found and joined to see what was involved. It is free and has additional options that you can pay for; but, this is a good example of what you can do.
> 
> (be careful if you have a webcam on your laptop; When I signed on, I wasn't wearing a shirt and didn't know that the laptop webcamera was automatic) I had no idea I could still move that fast.
> 
> Join for free and you will see some of the advantages;
> 
> http://www.christianchatcity.com/
> 
> This is only an example. It would be nice if we could visit in real time.
> 
> Just a thought,
> 
> Uncle Bob


Reactivate the old BB to full functioning order. Then they can add a Chatroom(s) that are accessible.

A front-end page (XML/HTML / CSS - NO Flash, Silverlight or any other garbage that requires alot of system resources) which can then provide a link to the Chatroom(s) and the Bulletin Board.

Chatroom software exists that are compatible with the old BB or similar BBs to this one. There is PHPBB and PHPChat that they can use.

http://www.phpopenchat.org/

and

http://www.phpbb.com/

This is ALL they need to implement.

This would be MORE then sufficient for the needs.


----------



## RickAstoria

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> Why was my other thread closed? I've reread it several times and cannot find anything offensive. Please, someone PM me, at least and tell me why.I've never had a thread "Closed/Locked" before.
> 
> If anyone was offended; please delete the whole thread.
> 
> Uncle Bob


I'll unlock it if you like.


----------



## RickAstoria

BTW: Just look at my prior messages on this topic. If they gave you a copy of the survey from me, it would be good to read from it. For what it is worth, the PHPBB will serve the Bulletin Board function well as well as the PHPOpenChat.

In general, they are free so ICC doesn't have to PAY money to buy the software. It also is very similar to this BB system. I would primarily look to this software to jump start it all.

The other features of the COI can be implemented into the site structure. It could work just fine. But I agree, paid membership should not be necessary but membership would give certain discounts on books purchased and all that but that is what they are paying membership for among other reasons.


----------



## Uncle Bob

Rick,

" I'll unlock it if you like."

No thanks;

I would like to know why it was locked from the person who locked it.  I want to make sure that I didn't offend anyone with the thread.

Uncle Bob


----------



## Uncle Bob

Why was my other thread closed? I've reread it several times and cannot find anything offensive. Please, whoever locked it; PM me, at least and tell me why.

I've never had a thread "Closed/Locked" before.

If anyone was offended; please delete the whole thread.

Uncle Bob


----------



## RickAstoria

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> Why was my other thread closed? I've reread it several times and cannot find anything offensive. Please, whoever locked it; PM me, at least and tell me why.I've never had a thread "Closed/Locked" before.
> 
> If anyone was offended; please delete the whole thread.
> 
> Uncle Bob


I don't think or see anything offensive.


----------



## FM William Burns

UB,

It wasn't me.  I posted on it and noticed is said "closed" and I can see my post on it.  Maybe due to being a Mod but I don't know who closed it.  You know where you can go and find out who or why it was "closed" if nobody fesses up.


----------



## jpranch

Just getting in. Wasn't me.


----------



## Uncle Bob

Thanks Ya'll,

I'm not sure how; but my thread may have offended someone or been misunderstood.

I'm hoping a PM from them might help me understand why the thread was locked.  If they found it to be a problem; I would like them to remove the entire thread.

Thanks,

Uncle Bob


----------



## packsaddle

It's a conspiracy perpetrated by ICC.  I just know it.


----------



## RickAstoria

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> Thanks Ya'll,I'm not sure how; but my thread may have offended someone or been misunderstood.
> 
> I'm hoping a PM from them might help me understand why the thread was locked.  If they found it to be a problem; I would like them to remove the entire thread.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Uncle Bob


Probably just someone screwed up and didn't mean to close it. Who knows....


----------



## jpranch

UB, I unlocked it last night. Not sure about the who or why.


----------



## FM William Burns

I thought of unlocking it but decided not to in case some other Mod locked it.  Anyway, I think Rjj did it by hitting the wrong Alpha, Bata blocker


----------



## jpranch

Pretty sure is was a mistake. Anyway, it's back up and running.


----------



## conarb

\ said:
			
		

> Anyway, I think Rjj did it by hitting the wrong Alpha, Bata blocker


You sure it's his beta blockers to keep his heart pumping, or do you think he's nipping on the sauce again?


----------



## FM William Burns

My attempt at humor regarding the widgets that scan this forum (forget what they are called) to get it in search engines


----------



## RJJ

It could have been me, but I wasn't on since I posted on the thread. However, This main control panel is rather intimidating. So it could have been me.

UB: Sorry for the lockout! I vote you all have me beaten with a cat of nine tails, hog tied and tossed over the side of ship.

Our most humble Customer service representative.


----------



## fatboy

Wasn't me! And yes RJJ, I noticed that before when I was requested by the OP to lock a thread, that Mods can still post.


----------



## RickAstoria

I was considering unlocking it because nothing that I could see could be perceive being offensive to anyone considering we had other threads with more likelihood to be offensive to some individuals and not get locked.


----------



## TJacobs

"I was never in Aisle 9."


----------



## mtlogcabin

This may be a lot to ask of those attending but would it be possible to provide an update during

Thursday's lunch break and later when the afteoon session is over so you may have additional feedback on what the ICC is presenting.


----------

