# Spraying stuff on exposed paper batt insulation



## jar546 (Nov 2, 2011)

I have a permit holder who has insulated their roof (with proper ventilation batts) and some other walls in a walk up attic (with handrails!!) and refused to cover the exposed paper insulation.  He found this product:

http://www.natfire.com/proddetail.php?prod=Flamex

But, I cannot find an ICC ES report on it.  Anyone have experience with this stuff or if this is even allowed?


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## gbhammer (Nov 2, 2011)

Wow. I would maybe consider it if they Hired a certified installer or used an approved special inspection agency. R 109.1.5 & IBC 1704.12


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## Francis Vineyard (Nov 2, 2011)

Never heard of it; code doesn't allow the combustible vapor barriers to be exposed. See the insulation vapor barrier warning installation guide.

*R302.10.1 Insulation. *Insulation materials, including facings,

such as vapor retarders and vapor-permeable membranes

installed within floor-ceiling assemblies, roof-ceiling

assemblies, wall assemblies, crawl spaces and _attics _shall

have a flame spread index not to exceed 25 with an accompanying

smoke-developed index not to exceed 450 when tested

in accordance with ASTM E 84 or UL 723.

*Exceptions:*

1. When such materials are installed in concealed

spaces, the flame spread index and smoke-developed

index limitations do not apply to the facings,

provided that the facing is installed in substantial

contact with the unexposed surface of the ceiling,

floor or wall finish.


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## mjesse (Nov 2, 2011)

Not listed for the use, no ES report, must be re-applied every 4-5 years.

Not approved.

Next....


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## gbhammer (Nov 2, 2011)

It does not say it can't be exposed, just has to have the right flame spread and smoke index rating. The material they want to use has those things in accordance with ASTM E 84, if it is applied properly.

What about exception #1

The door and stair to the attic space may make the whole thing a moot point, as the space may not be considered "concealed" attic space.


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## jar546 (Nov 2, 2011)

Spoke with the manufacturer and he told me to tell the owner not to waste his money.  No there is no ICC ES or Legacy on this one.  Not "approved"


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## rktect 1 (Nov 3, 2011)

Not to derail your thread....

I did a structural rough inspection the other day for a master bath remodel where no bathroom existed before. I go in and see the shower enclosure tight up against the existing pink painted drywall.

Me:  wasn't this supposed to be a prefabricated shower enclosure?

GC:  its a field change.

Me:  your going to use tile surfacing for the walls and ceiling

GC:  of course

Me:  when will you be removing the existing pink painted drywall

GC:  we aren't. I have some special paint that goes over the existing drywall

Me:  not in this village you don't


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## GCtony (Nov 8, 2011)

Couldn't he remove the kraft paper and install FSK over the fibeglass?  Flame spread is >25 and smoke is >50


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## Yankee (Nov 8, 2011)

Read the priniting on the kraft backing. Better yet, have them read it , , typically that will set them straight. They can cover it with unfaced batt insulation which they can then leave exposed.


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Nov 8, 2011)

rktect 1 said:
			
		

> GC:  we aren't. I have some special paint that goes over the existing drywall
> 
> Me:  not in this village you don't


this reminds me of the one can of anti-gravity spray they give you when you start your first architecture design class in college...good for one project only.  I think it was just spray mount.


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## Examiner (Nov 10, 2011)

gbhammer said:
			
		

> It does not say it can't be exposed, just has to have the right flame spread and smoke index rating. The material they want to use has those things in accordance with ASTM E 84, if it is applied properly.What about exception #1
> 
> The door and stair to the attic space may make the whole thing a moot point, as the space may not be considered "concealed" attic space.


No one addressed if this did apply or not.  Anyone???


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## Yankee (Nov 10, 2011)

Examiner said:
			
		

> No one addressed if this did apply or not.  Anyone???


The spray on would have had to have been tested on the insulation paper-backed material. I really doubt you will find that to be the case.


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## Yankee (Nov 10, 2011)

HAHAHAHAHAHA you've got to be kidding me! And they sell fabric tags so you can tag your home-made flame proof product , , ,

Flamex PF can be applied as is by spraying or immersing. In order to be effective there must be a 10-12% (wet) increase in the weight of the fabric, if material is synthetic such as polyester, a heavier coat may be needed. Approx. coverage per gallon on fabric is 300 sq. ft. (400 - 500 sq. ft on sheer fabric). Since all fabrics have a different density, a small test should be performed by the utilization of a small flame (butane lighter). *Hold a 4" X 12" piece of the treated material vertically and apply the flame to the lower portion for 10 seconds and remove the ignition source. The flame must go out within 2 seconds. (This test is similar to the small-scale NFPA 701 field test).*


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## Examiner (Nov 11, 2011)

I should have been a bit clearer on the quote.  What I was inquiring about is; the possibility that the attic is considered to be a concealed space?  Input??


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## Yankee (Nov 11, 2011)

No, an attic is not a concealed space.

There are two threads of compliance that you need to look at. To make it easy, first look at what the manufacturer has listed for the proper use of the material. Most kraft backed insulation has the wording stamped right on the backing "do not leave exposed". The code wording is similar, if it doesn't meet flame spread/smoke index it has to be in substantial contact with finish material (wall board). Whether it is in an attic, a basement or anywhere else it may not be left exposed (exposed to the AIR). Does that help?

*R302.10.1 Insulation.* Insulation materials, including facings, such as vapor retarders and vapor-permeable membranes installed within floor-ceiling assemblies, roof-ceiling assemblies, wall assemblies, crawl spaces and _attics_ shall have a flame spread index not to exceed 25 with an accompanying smoke-developed index not to exceed 450 when tested in accordance with ASTM E 84 or UL 723. 

*Exceptions:*1. When such materials are installed in concealed spaces, the flame spread index and smoke-developed index limitations do not apply to the facings, _*provided that the facing is installed in substantial contact with the unexposed surface of the ceiling, floor or wall finish.*_


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## Examiner (Nov 11, 2011)

Thanks, I should have looked it up before posting the question since it is well written in the Code.


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## Yankee (Nov 11, 2011)

Examiner said:
			
		

> Thanks, I should have looked it up before posting the question since it is well written in the Code.


No problem, no worries


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## jar546 (Nov 16, 2011)

Yankee said:
			
		

> The spray on would have had to have been tested on the insulation paper-backed material. I really doubt you will find that to be the case.


That is the problem when we contact the manufacturers


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