# Unisex sinks in Katy Texas



## orlando77 (Aug 23, 2021)

Hello

I was wondering if anyone knows if Katy Texas allows for unisex sinks.

Please see the below link.

I'm also not certain if it passes ADA clearance requirements around the urinals.

Occupancy is 300 Group A-2 .  Its usage will be a sports bar.

The city is Katy Texas.

Thank you for your feedback.

Orlando


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## ADAguy (Aug 23, 2021)

Ask a TAS.


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## mtlogcabin (Aug 23, 2021)

You cannot have unisex sinks/lavatories

1109.2 Toilet and bathing facilities.
 Each toilet room and bathing room shall be accessible. Where a floor level is not required to be connected by an accessible route, the only toilet rooms or bathing rooms provided within the facility shall not be located on the inaccessible floor. Except as provided for in Sections 1109.2.2 and 1109.2.3,* at least one of each type of fixture, element, control or dispenser in each accessible toilet room and bathing room shall be accessible.*

[P] 2902.1.3 Lavatory distribution.
*Where two or more toilet rooms are provided for each sex*, _the required number of lavatories shall be distributed proportionately to the required number of water closets._

[P] 2902.2 Separate facilities.
Where plumbing fixtures are required, separate facilities shall be provided for each sex.


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## cda (Aug 23, 2021)

mtlogcabin said:


> You cannot have unisex sinks/lavatories
> 
> 1109.2 Toilet and bathing facilities.
> Each toilet room and bathing room shall be accessible. Where a floor level is not required to be connected by an accessible route, the only toilet rooms or bathing rooms provided within the facility shall not be located on the inaccessible floor. Except as provided for in Sections 1109.2.2 and 1109.2.3,* at least one of each type of fixture, element, control or dispenser in each accessible toilet room and bathing room shall be accessible.*
> ...





Looks like he has five sinks???   Good to go??

I keep seeing that set up every so often, interesting, when you are not expecting it, especailly when they are all unisex.


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## mtlogcabin (Aug 23, 2021)

Ask your wife if she wants to stand in front of the sink and mirror and adjust her clothes with a strange man standing next to her.
Better yet some one who may have soiled themselves having to clean up in front of the opposite sex

Finally found it
IPC
405.3.2 Public lavatories.
In employee and public toilet rooms, *the required lavatory shall be located in the same room as the required water closet.*


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## steveray (Aug 23, 2021)

As we move towards gender neutral this will be a more common discussion....


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## cda (Aug 23, 2021)

mtlogcabin said:


> Ask your wife if she wants to stand in front of the sink and mirror and adjust her clothes with a strange man standing next to her.
> Better yet some one who may have soiled themselves having to clean up in front of the opposite sex
> 
> Finally found it
> ...




per the picture ,,, appears it is in same room?


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## cda (Aug 23, 2021)

Hum plumbing code has no definition of lavatory ?


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## steveray (Aug 23, 2021)

The definition of room vs. compartment is what needs to be addressed....How many doors can you open up before you wash your hands.....


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## mtlogcabin (Aug 23, 2021)

cda said:


> per the picture ,,, appears it is in same room?


No there is a door between the WC's and the lavatories
2018 IPC
419.1 Approval.
Lavatories shall conform to ASME A112.19.1/CSA B45.2, ASME A112.19.2/CSA B45.1, ASME A112.19.3/CSA B45.4 or CSA B45.5/IAPMO Z124. Group wash-up equipment shall conform to the requirements of Section 402. Every 20 inches (508 mm) of rim space shall be considered as one lavatory.


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## steveray (Aug 23, 2021)

cda said:


> Hum plumbing code has no definition of lavatory ?


416.1 Approval. Lavatories shall conform to ASME
A112.19.1/CSA B45.2, ASME A112.19.2/CSA B45.1,
ASME A112.19.3/CSA B45.4 or CSA B45.5/IAPMO Z124.
Group wash-up equipment shall conform to the requirements


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## mtlogcabin (Aug 23, 2021)

The WC's are in a compartment within a room. The lavatories are in a hallway


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## steveray (Aug 23, 2021)

mtlogcabin said:


> The WC's are in a compartment within a room. The lavatories are in a hallway


In this example I would agree....But when the W/C "compartment" gets full proper walls and door it gets muddier....


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## tmurray (Aug 23, 2021)

mtlogcabin said:


> Ask your wife if she wants to stand in front of the sink and mirror and adjust her clothes with a strange man standing next to her.
> Better yet some one who may have soiled themselves having to clean up in front of the opposite sex


I always feel we need to be careful in applying a code requirement simply because someone may feel uncomfortable. But, this also may be just my belief against over regulation and hoping for smaller government. Let owners decide what they want to do. As long as the right number of fixtures are there, thus ensuring public health measures are met, I as an agent of the government should not dictate to the owner of the facility how they are going to operate it.


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## orlando77 (Aug 23, 2021)

Thanks for the feedback. If I took the doors out of the equation (see attachment) would that now work.


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## cda (Aug 23, 2021)

NO!!!!

Not into IPC, but seeing your set up more often


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## rgrace (Aug 23, 2021)

orlando77 said:


> Thanks for the feedback. If I took the doors out of the equation (see attachment) would that now work.


I believe steveray hit the nail on the head when he said


steveray said:


> As we move towards gender neutral this will be a more common discussion....


The 2018 and 2021 codes have provisions for multi-user gender neutral toilet facilities. In my state, we have increased requirements for such facilities and included provisions that weren't well thought out on the ICC level. What this looks like to me is a hybrid of male/female toilet facilities mixing in multi-user gender neutral elements. Personally, I wouldn't permit this unless all of the elements for a multi-user gender neutral facility were incorporated into the design. At that point, identifying male/female would be moot. Reference 2018 Virginia Plumbing Code https://codes.iccsafe.org/codes/virginia Note: red lettering is state amendments.


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## mtlogcabin (Aug 23, 2021)

rgrace said:


> gender neutral elements.


I am probably going to get in trouble for this but scientifically you are male or female if you think or believe anything else you probably have an issue between your ears that needs to be fixed.

By removing the urinals at a school. How will they meet the plumbing fixture count? You can't put a bank of Water Closets where a bank of Urinals where.









						Why a Virginia Middle School Is Removing Urinals from the Boys’ Bathrooms
					

Its bad enough that a middle school in Loudon County, VA, has decided to remove male and female signs from its bathrooms.




					townhall.com


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## Rick18071 (Aug 23, 2021)

Unisex restrooms should only be single person use restrooms.


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## bill1952 (Aug 23, 2021)

Urinal replacement for gender neutral restrooms:








						Berlin's new toilets: Would you use a women's urinal?
					

Berlin seeks gender equality for public toilets as it seeks to redevelop its municipal "pissoirs".



					www.bbc.com


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## cda (Aug 23, 2021)

Rick18071 said:


> Unisex restrooms should only be single person use restrooms.


The ones I have seen like above

You walk in 

The sinks are there

You pick an open stall, that has a door.

There may be five to six to choose from.


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## JPohling (Aug 23, 2021)

This is a very common restroom situation here in San Diego for restaurant/bar uses.  You need to have the linear footage of lavatory to satisfy both men and women lav requirements


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## orlando77 (Aug 23, 2021)

Okay, I redesign it.

This does look better but the client wanted to have universal sinks.


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## cda (Aug 23, 2021)

Rick18071 said:


> Unisex restrooms should only be single person use restrooms.



Agree 

But why can’t there be say eight singles in a row???

And you step out and there is the sinks to wash your hands???


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## cda (Aug 23, 2021)

orlando77 said:


> Hello
> 
> I was wondering if anyone knows if Katy Texas allows for unisex sinks.
> 
> ...




Have a quick set down with the building official

He can say

Yes

No

Yes,,, but do this

Before redesigning 

Or do it by email


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## cda (Aug 23, 2021)

orlando77 said:


> Thanks for the feedback. If I took the doors out of the equation (see attachment) would that now work.



I revise my call,,,

Yes on this design

Maybe make them all unisex??


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## Rick18071 (Aug 24, 2021)

cda said:


> Agree
> 
> But why can’t there be say eight singles in a row???
> 
> And you step out and there is the sinks to wash your hands???


The eight single rooms need to have the lavatory in the same room. Sometimes you need to wash more then your hands and need to expose other body parts..


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## cda (Aug 24, 2021)

Rick18071 said:


> The eight single rooms need to have the lavatory in the same room. Sometimes you need to wash more then your hands and need to expose other body parts..



Ok getting lost

Is there a difference between a single toilet in a stall and a single toilet ,,, behind a fancy door??


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## steveray (Aug 24, 2021)

orlando77 said:


> Okay, I redesign it.
> 
> This does look better but the client wanted to have universal sinks.


Woman's room door does not meet front approach...


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## mtlogcabin (Aug 24, 2021)

orlando77 said:


> This does look better but the client wanted to have universal sinks.


Why and when do we as code officials care what the client wants. We are here to be the bad guy between what the client wants and what the code says. As the DP you get caught in the middle but you are not the one telling your client no.


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## e hilton (Aug 24, 2021)

tmurray said:


> hoping for smaller government.


The Easter Bunny will deliver that for you …


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## orlando77 (Aug 24, 2021)

steveray said:


> Woman's room door does not meet front approach...


Good catch Steveray.

Do I need a 5-foot turnaround radius in front of the sink (4'5 1/2")?

The back door in the 3'-8" hallway counts as the 2nd door fire exit for the building. 

Does the hallway need to be a certain size to meet the code?


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## Yikes (Aug 24, 2021)

You have posted your question in the "Accessibility" forum, but it is not the accessibility codes which require separate facilities for each sex, it is the plumbing code.  Here's the excerpt from the International Plumbing Code.

*403.2 Separate Facilities*

Where plumbing fixtures are required, separate facilities shall be provided for each sex.
Exceptions:

Separate facilities shall not be required for dwelling units and sleeping units.
Separate facilities shall not be required in structures or tenant spaces with a total occupant load, including both employees and customers, of 15 or fewer.
Separate facilities shall not be required in mercantile _occupancies _in which the maximum occupant load is 100 or fewer.


The way 403.2 is worded, " separate facilities" seems to refer to "plumbing fixtures".  But IPC table 403.1 list minimum requires "fixtures" not only as sinks, toilets and lavs, but also drinking fountains and service sinks.  When was the last time you saw separate drinking fountains for men vs. women?

Also, what does the word "separate" mean?  Does in mean you must calculate them separately, but they can be located adjacent to each other?  Or must they be in separate rooms?  ...and if so, must the rooms have doors on them in order to be considered "separate"?


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## bill1952 (Aug 24, 2021)

Lots of restrooms without doors so that's not critical for "separate".  

Good questions though.


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## orlando77 (Aug 28, 2021)

One more option.  Just thought I look at it from a different perspective.


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## cda (Aug 28, 2021)

orlando77 said:


> One more option.  Just thought I look at it from a different perspective.



I think some will say sink is not in same room

Just do a line of individual restrooms 

Mark them unisex

You open the door from the individual toilet room,  and you see a line of sinks.


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## cda (Aug 28, 2021)

New Phoenix Theater doesn't have public men's and women's bathrooms. Just gender-neutral ones.
					

Ten stalls with full-size doors will mean one line for the restroom. The setup supports the Phoenix's mission of inclusion, diversity and equity.



					www.indystar.com


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## bill1952 (Aug 28, 2021)

I like the New Phoenix Theatre.  Puts an end to the potty parity issue. Also will lead to a higher percentage of men washing hands with women washing. Win win.


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## cda (Aug 28, 2021)

bill1952 said:


> I like the New Phoenix Theatre.  Puts an end to the potty parity issue. Also will lead to a higher percentage of men washing hands with women washing. Win win.



Can’t wee all just get along.


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## James Davis (Aug 30, 2021)

orlando77 said:


> Hello
> 
> I was wondering if anyone knows if Katy Texas allows for unisex sinks.
> 
> ...


am I missing something here? a unisex sink?


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## cda (Sep 8, 2021)

So how about this setup???


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## Yikes (Sep 9, 2021)

cda said:


> Can’t *wee* all just get along.


cda, I see what you did there...


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## Yikes (Sep 9, 2021)

cda said:


> So how about this setup???


Depending on your definition of what the CPC means by the word "separate" in "separate facilities shall be provided for each sex", I would say that the grouping of sinks complies for the following reasons:

The sinks are individual sinks and are physically separated from each other:  it is not a long trough sink with multiple faucets.
There is no additional code requirement to label the separate sinks with code signage that says "men's sink" or "women's sink".


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