# Sleeved Water Line



## Spikeland67

Hello,

I have to sleeve a waterline because I can't maintain the required minimum distance to a sanitary system in my area.  What do waterline installers use for the sleeve- cast iron, pvc (schedule 40 or 80)  Any advise would be great.

Thank you,

J Landi


----------



## cda

Welcome

Not a plumber, but interesting question.

Seems like the utility company in your area would also have an answer.


----------



## jdfruit

Most likely will be part of a standard installation detail with materials specified in the detail or by std specs, check with the Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ)

On the "left coast" we don't have a ground freeze problem, so PVC sch 40 is usually acceptable


----------



## Francis Vineyard

Assuming this a plumbing question (although posted in the electrical);

*603.2 Separation of water service and building sewer.* Water service pipe and the building sewer shall be separated by 5 feet (1524 mm) of undisturbed or compacted earth. Public portions of building sewers and water service pipes under public ways and within property lines serving premises shall conform to the requirements of the authority having jurisdiction.

*Exceptions:*

1. The required separation distance shall not apply where the bottom of the water service pipe within 5 feet (1524 mm) of the sewer is a minimum of 12 inches (305 mm) above the top of the highest point of the sewer and the pipe materials conform to Table 702.3.

2. Water service pipe is permitted to be located in the same trench with a building sewer, provided such sewer is constructed of materials listed in Table 702.2.

3. The required separation distance shall not apply where a water service pipe crosses a sewer pipe, provided the water service pipe is sleeved to at least 5 feet (1524 mm) horizontally from the sewer pipe centerline on both sides of such crossing with pipe materials listed in Table 605.3, 702.2 or 702.3.

The New York code Tables can be viewed here: http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/st/ny/st/b900v10/st_ny_st_b900v10_6_sec003.htm?bu=NY-P-2010-999999


----------



## ICE

The only legal sleeve for a water pipe that runs too close and parallel to clay sewer pipe is made from depleted uranium. There's just enough radioactive material left to kill poop germs.


----------



## David Henderson

Here in Calif. can be in same trench with 12" separation vertically and horizontally as long as is not clay.


----------



## ICE

David Henderson said:
			
		

> Here in Calif. can be in same trench with 12" separation vertically and horizontally as long as is not clay.


609.2 allows that with clay sewer pipe.  If the sewer pipe is a material that is approved for use within a building, the water and sewer pipes can touch.

The whole deal about separating the pipes never made a lot of sense to me.  If the water main leaks...shlt ain't getting in.


----------



## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> 609.2 allows that with clay sewer pipe.  If the sewer pipe is a material that is approved for use within a building, the water and sewer pipes can touch.The whole deal about separating the pipes never made a lot of sense to me.  If the water main leaks...shlt ain't getting in.


Probably part of the uber-analness of water contamination, seeing as there are about 30 backflow prevention mechanisms between a typical house and the source.

Brent.


----------



## Keystone

Sleeving water laterals crossing over sewer pipe acts as a warning mechanism to an excavator, plumber or the like and if the sewer or water lateral leak or collapse, the sleeve will either bridge the immediate area or disburse the water from causing further damage.


----------



## JBI

Spikeland67,  The tables referenced above are for Water service pipe (605.3) or for building drain pipe (702.2) or building sewer pipe (702.3). You can use the same material as the service line, just one or two sizes larger, or any listed building drain/sewer pipe.

The intent is to protect the potable water from possible contamination by seepage through the service pipe or a joint in the service pipe.

It is not necessarily the solids that are a concern (large molecules) but rather bacteria carried by the waste lines (very tiny little buggers).

Nice to see more NYers on the board.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Just getting it sleeved is part of the battle. I think I'd consider "orangeburg" if the contractors would just follow the code requirement of 603.2.

After thinking about it, no on the "orangeburg!"

pc1


----------



## Keystone

IMO the theory of sewage contaminanting a water lateral via a connection is an old thought process, more of a wise tail, that has stuck with the industry, when connections were less than stellar. In that context that would mean a ground soaked by melting snow, rainfall or a high water table would allow watered down soil or sand to enter water laterals through a connection.

Manufactures experimenting or we will call it refining the process between using copper ferrules, rubber inserts, brass to brass, brass in rubber and differing types of pipe have come a long way, we also have locking nuts on the ends of unions(although not required).


----------



## Harsha Sharma

Keystone said:


> Sleeving water laterals crossing over sewer pipe acts as a warning mechanism to an excavator, plumber or the like and if the sewer or water lateral leak or collapse, the sleeve will either bridge the immediate area or disburse the water from causing further damage.



Hi,

I am currently working on a design where the water line (48" ID) is crossing a sewer line. These both are right now 1 ft apart  pipe to pipe. The cover above my water line is less that 6.5 which means my waterline needs to go lower but there is the sewer line below it. If I take the waterline and have it run below the sewer line instead that is added cost of excavation to almost 25'. I am trying to find a cost effective solution where I can have the waterline and sewer crossing and enough cover on top too. I am a new in pipeline design and trying to figure this out. If I sleeve the water line that might solve the crossing problem but I am still stuck with less than 6.5' of cover.


----------



## Pcinspector1

Harsha,

see post #4, does that help you at all?


----------



## Harsha Sharma

Pcinspector1 said:


> Harsha,
> 
> see post #4, does that help you at all?


I read that looks like the point no. 3 works in my case but the code link does not work and also it still does not solve the issue of me having less than 6.5' of cover above the water line. In other words my water line is less than 6.5' below the grade. Water line is steel pipe with 0.5" thickness of lining , pipe thickness 0.375" and 1" coating.


----------



## Keystone

Harsha Sharma said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am currently working on a design where the water line (48" ID) is crossing a sewer line. These both are right now 1 ft apart  pipe to pipe. The cover above my water line is less that 6.5 which means my waterline needs to go lower but there is the sewer line below it. If I take the waterline and have it run below the sewer line instead that is added cost of excavation to almost 25'. I am trying to find a cost effective solution where I can have the waterline and sewer crossing and enough cover on top too. I am a new in pipeline design and trying to figure this out. If I sleeve the water line that might solve the crossing problem but I am still stuck with less than 6.5' of cover.



What is the areas frost depth for the project?
What is the proposed depth of the water line?
What size/diameter and material is the water line?
What is the proposed depth of the sewer? 
What size/diameter and material is the sewer?


----------



## Keystone

Can you post a CAD drawing (side profile) of the pipes projected layout?


----------



## north star

*@ ~ @ ~ @*

Harsha,

Welcome to The Building Codes Forum !   

48" I.D. pipe sounds like a utilities based question.
We [ typically ] deal in structures with smaller sized piping,
and fire water supply lines, and not something as large
as 48".

*Q1):*  What will be above the water line when installed
[  i.e. - structural loads, ...highway traffic, ...non-
structural loads, other ?  ].
*Q2):*  What is the concern with having only 6.5' of cover ?
*Q3):*  What do the project specifications call for ?

If structural loads will be present above the 6.5' of
backfill, you [ may ] have to construct a steel
reinforcement cage around the sewer and water piping
and place concrete, to keep a permanent separation
of the water-from-the-sewer lines, and provide structural
support.......Just sayin'...

*@ ~ @ ~ @*


----------



## e hilton

A “sleeve” for a 48” water line is pretty much going to be something structural.  Precast concrete box culvert section maybe.  And as northstar pointed out,this is a municipal utilities type issue ... surely there is a PE involved in the design.


----------



## Paul Sweet

State health department regulations might apply instead of building code if it's a public utility line.


----------

