# Existing elevator shaft not to code?



## Coder (Dec 26, 2013)

First of all happy holidays! Hopefully you are still enjoying a break from work. I unfortunately, am not.  Another problem to solve arose over Christmas day and looking for advice from you guy's and gal's. Scenario is: A fairly new (2007)Holiday Inn Express here has suffered a sprinkler pipe burst that pretty much damaged 3 entire floors with water including an elevator shaft. The existing elevator shaft was designed to be a UL listed 1- hour assembly of wood framing with one layer of type "C" 5/8" sheetrock on each side of the shaft wall. The actual finished product that was approved by my predecessor was 2 layers of 5/8" type "X" on the inner wall of the shaft. The restoration company is questioning the sheetrock replacement and whether or not they can just put it back the way it was or if they need to do more to physically achieve a 1-hour fire- rated assembly. My question to the group: Is there a listed 1 hour assembly out there that is comprised of two layers type X on one side that I can provide as documented acceptance of the original installation so they can put it back the way it was? Or if not how would you proceed? Thanks in advance. Eric


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## cda (Dec 26, 2013)

Try dens glass just have to find correct product for application

http://www.buildgp.com/DocumentViewer.aspx?repository=BP&elementid=4286

http://www.buildgp.com/DocumentViewer.aspx?repository=BP&elementid=4111


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## cda (Dec 26, 2013)

Hopefully have enough clearance

Does the shaft have to be rated? Not near the books sorry


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## steveray (Dec 26, 2013)

If there is a CO...there is documented acceptance......if that is un acceptable to you, you might be able to find a 1hr rated assembly, I have seen it for hard ceilings in stairwells...Drywall manufacturers usually have good easy assemblies to find (USG, Lefarge, etc...)


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## Coder (Dec 27, 2013)

cda said:
			
		

> Hopefully have enough clearance Does the shaft have to be rated? Not near the books sorry


Three story hotel building of type vb construction.

708.4 Fire-resistance rating. Shaft enclosures shall have a fire-resistance rating of not less than 2 hours where connecting four stories or more, and not less than 1 hour where connecting less than four stories. The number of stories connected by the shaft enclosure shall include any basements but not any mezzanines. Shaft enclosures shall have a fire-resistance rating not less than the floor assembly penetrated, but need not exceed 2 hours. Shaft enclosures shall meet the requirements of Section 703.2.1.

 With commentary for meeting the requirements of 703.2.1 Nonsymmetrical wall construction: The reference to Section 703.2.1 is a 2009 revision to this section. The intent is that fire-resistance-rated shaft-enclosure walls must be rated from fire exposure from both sides; that is, they must be symmetrical assemblies or assume the rating of the least rated side. This has always been the case, but this makes it abundantly clear.

Sounds to me like the one sided shaft liner doesn't work? Thanks for the replies. For the record, my initial response to all this was for them to put it back the way it was.


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## MASSDRIVER (Dec 27, 2013)

School me. I thought rated assemblies were rated with an airspace, meaning it has to be protected on both sides of the framing. If not it's just rated on one side.

Brent.


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## cda (Dec 27, 2013)

This is maybe two inch thick rated assembly

Try dens glass just have to find correct product for application

http://www.buildgp.com/DocumentViewe...elementid=4286

http://www.buildgp.com/DocumentViewe...elementid=4111

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZdEH...e_gdata_player


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## mark handler (Dec 27, 2013)

cda said:
			
		

> This is maybe two inch thick rated assembly Try dens glass just have to find correct product for application
> 
> http://www.buildgp.com/DocumentViewe...elementid=4286
> 
> ...


Bad Request Bad Request and no video


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## cda (Dec 27, 2013)

Sorry

Densglass

Just need to find the right product from densglass

http://www.buildstrong.com/pdfs/GP%20Area%20Separation%20Wall.pdf


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## cda (Dec 27, 2013)

http://www.consolidatedgypsum.ca/CataloguePDFs/Densglass_Technical_Guide.pdf


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## mark handler (Dec 27, 2013)

Or shaftwall?

http://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG/Canada/Product%20Related/Interior%20Panels/Misc./documents/language/english/Product%20Literature/sheetrock-wall-liner-gypsum-panels-cavity-shaft-wall-brochure-en-can.pdf


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## Coder (Dec 27, 2013)

That is all good information. Thanks for the input gang. The problem with attempting to do anything to the back side of the shaft wall is that it is inaccessible. Would require major de-construction of the entire surrounding building in order to attempt to place any type of wall board against the back side.  Another problem is that space on the interior of the shaft wall is limited due to the existing configuration of elevator components. The third scenario is there is another elevator that was not affected by the water damage that was built the same way so if they redo one they would have to do the other. sounds like I am going to just tell them to re-install the two layers on the inside like it was and be done with it.


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## MASSDRIVER (Dec 27, 2013)

With the understanding you have to do something, what is the point of two layers?

I ask this as we had the same problem in San Francisco with row houses. Just doubling up, even if you do it to both properties, does not create an assembly. Fire can attack the framing because of free flowing air sources, and therefor burn what holds the gyp board up. Basically it turned into an inspector want instead of a code requirement.

If you can't protect the framing in both sides then why bother doubling up the drywall ?

Brent


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## cda (Dec 27, 2013)

Disagree on both shafts would tell them if they touch the other shaft at any time

Fix it.

The dens glass system is just H channel and the two sheets slip in





Even with the Sheetrock redo it will not be perfect


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## TimNY (Dec 27, 2013)

I believe it can be done from the inside, but it needs to be structurally independent from the studs.  eg 1" shaft board with steel channels.  Definitely cannot be done by just doubling up GWB on one side.

Tim


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## TimNY (Dec 27, 2013)

or... what cda said.  I was looking in the UL directory.

Tim


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## ICE (Dec 27, 2013)

In the event of a fire, the intent of the shaft protection is to keep the fire from reaching other floors via the shaft.  The intent isn't to protect the elevators.  So keeping the fire out of the shaft isn't as important as keeping the fire in the shaft.  Since it was built with no legitimate firewall, it is really difficult to make them start over.

The bottom line is that this call shouldn't fall on an inspector.  Hand it to the BO.  If you are the BO, this is why you get paid the big bucks.


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## MASSDRIVER (Dec 27, 2013)

Ice, if fire starts on floor one, eats the framing in the shaft causing it to fail, does that not compromise the whole system? Especially if There are clear draft ways in the frame behind the shaft?

Or are you saying the 2 layers protect the rest of the shaft adequately once compromised ?

Brent


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## Coder (Dec 27, 2013)

I went back over there to re-evaluate the situation. It appears that there was sheetrock on the back sides of the shaft wall as well. However, I also noticed that the sheet rock stops and starts at each floor being separated by a beam of the floor ceiling assembly. Having the interior of the shaft doubled up and the exterior of the shaft sheetrocked continuous between each floor ceiling assembly which is a sheetrocked lid and gypcrete floor seems adequate in meeting the intent of the code. ICE, I am the Building Official/inspector/other duties as assigned so typically, it is solely up to me and occasionally the City attorney. As far as making the big bucks, that is another story.:-D


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## cda (Dec 27, 2013)

Do the shafts have a sprinkler head in them?


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## steveray (Dec 27, 2013)

Rated shafts in wood frame platform construction are rarely done properly (the first time), which is why I try to beat the hell out of the details on a plan review.....IMO


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## Coder (Dec 30, 2013)

cda said:
			
		

> Do the shafts have a sprinkler head in them?


 I believe so


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## TimNY (Dec 30, 2013)

cda said:
			
		

> Do the shafts have a sprinkler head in them?


Required at the bottom to extinguish a fire that may be fueled by debris that collect in the bottom.  Not required at the top.

Tim


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## cda (Dec 30, 2013)

TimNY said:
			
		

> Required at the bottom to extinguish a fire that may be fueled by debris that collect in the bottom.  Not required at the top.Tim


Depends....


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## TimNY (Dec 30, 2013)

cda said:
			
		

> Depends....


Whether one is required depends, or whether more than one is required depends?

Tim


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## cda (Dec 30, 2013)

What edition of nfpa 13, if adopted, and what is in the shaft

8.15.5.3    Automatic fire sprinklers shall not be required in elevator machine rooms, elevator machinery spaces, control spaces, or hoistways of traction elevators installed in accordance with the applicable provisions in NFPA 101, or the applicable building code, where all of the following conditions are met:

(1)

The elevator machine room, machinery space, control room, control space, or hoistway of traction elevator is dedicated to elevator equipment only.

(2)

The elevator machine room, machine room, machinery space, control room, control space, or hoistway of traction elevators are protected by smoke detectors, or other automatic fire detection, installed in accordance with NFPA 72.

(3)

The elevator machinery space, control room, control space, or hoistway of traction elevators is separated from the remainder of the building by walls and floor/ceiling or roof/ceiling assemblies having a fire resistance rating of not less than that specified by the applicable building code.

(4)

No materials unrelated to elevator equipment are permitted to be stored in elevator machine rooms, machinery spaces, control rooms, control spaces, or hoistways of traction elevators.

(5)

The elevator machinery is not of the hydraulic type.

8.15.5.4*   Automatic sprinklers in elevator machine rooms or at the tops of hoistways shall be of ordinary- or intermediate-temperature rating.

8.15.5.5*   Upright, pendent, or sidewall spray sprinklers shall be installed at the top of elevator hoistways.

8.15.5.6    The sprinkler required at the top of the elevator hoistway by 8.15.5.5 shall not be required where the hoistway for passenger elevators is noncombustible or limited-combustible and the car enclosure materials meet the requirements of ASME A17.1, Safety Code for Elevators and Escalators.


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## IJHumberson (Jan 2, 2014)

From what you've described, and only being able to get to the walls from within the shaft, the 1-hour shaftwall arrangement like in the link Mark Handler posted would be what I would recommend (the 1-hour, UL-U415 on page 14).  It meets the requirement for 1-hour rating (from both sides) and can be constructed from one side (within the shaft) - and it likely would not be very much difference in cost from what the original construction was since it's a relatively small area (elevator shaft) and only 3 floors.  The original construction was not correct - but that's no excuse to allow it to be reconstructed wrong again - especially when there are easily constructed code compliant solutions.


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## Frank (Jan 3, 2014)

With 2 layers on the inside of the shaft and one on the opposite side the 1 hour rating is easily achieved.  If the insterstitial space is fireblocked with nominal 2x lumber it is equivalent to the one layer of 5/8 drywall

If the wall and floor framing framing surrounding the shaft is comprimised it does not matter about what the shaft does--thinking of Masonary elevator shaft standing in the middle of the rubble of a 3 story hotel that burned to the ground during construction.  Shaft still there but once the surrounding building is gone who cares.

see 721.6 2009 IBC


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## cda (Jan 3, 2014)

Forgot about the build it yourself


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