# Exit Path



## daves (Jan 26, 2011)

We have a mercantile occupancy in for plan review in Florida. Fire department reviewer wants the exit route defined in some fixed and permanent manner. Suggestions include partial height walls, railings, or a distinct change in flooring finish material. Needless to say these aren't reasonable options for the merchant. We are at a loss to discover in the code where such a provision exists. The reviewer simply states "It's the fire code".

Anyone know where, in the IBC, NFPA 1, or NFPA 101, we can find suport for this position?

This is a larger space, 3 exits are required from the sales floor. Our submittal includes a plan showing maximum exit access travel distance, egress capacity for each door, remoteness, etc.  along with the store's full merchandise fixture plan.


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## Coug Dad (Jan 26, 2011)

NFPA 101 (2009) Section 36.2.5.11 (4).  Similar to IBC


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## FM William Burns (Jan 26, 2011)

No requirements *Sales Floor* provided for you meet the provisions for (1) Access to aisles, (2) Markings and (3) Travel Distance in NFPA 1 (Chapter 14 ) or NFPA 101 (Chapter 7). The only exception is if the jurisdiction has added a local amendment to those sections mentioned.  Ask him/her to "show you"


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## Coug Dad (Jan 26, 2011)

From the 2006 IBC:

1014.2 Egress through intervening spaces.

Egress through intervening spaces shall comply with this section.

1.   Egress from a room or space shall not pass through adjoining or intervening rooms or areas, except where such adjoining rooms or areas are accessory to the area served, are not a high-hazard occupancy and provide a discernible path of egress travel to an exit.

Exception: Means of egress are not prohibited through adjoining or intervening rooms or spaces in a Group H, S or F occupancy when the adjoining or intervening rooms or spaces are the same or a lesser hazard occupancy group.

2.   Egress shall not pass through kitchens, storage rooms, closets or spaces used for similar purposes.

Exceptions:

1.   Means of egress are not prohibited through a kitchen area serving adjoining rooms constituting part of the same dwelling unit or sleeping unit.

2.   Means of egress are not prohibited through stockrooms in Group M occupancies when all of the following are met:

2.1.   The stock is of the same hazard classification as that found in the main retail area;

2.2.   Not more than 50 percent of the exit access is through the stockroom;

2.3.   The stockroom is not subject to locking from the egress side; and

2.4.   There is a demarcated, minimum 44-inch-wide (1118 mm) aisle defined by full or partial height fixed walls or similar construction that will maintain the required width and lead directly from the retail area to the exit without obstructions.

3.   An exit access shall not pass through a room that can be locked to prevent egress.


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## cda (Jan 26, 2011)

Suggest you ask one more time for chapter and verse

If you get same sad answer start going up the chain till you find intelligent life

Is the marking wanted only in certain areas, storage areas, or other????

What exact building code is this reviewed under??? And year ????


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## Code Neophyte (Jan 26, 2011)

In another installment of "Been-there-done-that":  In exception #2.4 cited by Coug Dad above, what is a "partial height fixed wall"?  I had a designer propose a 2" curb, which would still allow stock carts to roll over it, and he justification was that 2" is a partial height of an otherwise full-height wall.

BTW - this was in a store room - no requirement that I'm aware of for the sales floor...


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## High Desert (Jan 26, 2011)

See the definition of "Merchandise Pad." Then see "Aisle." You have merchadise pads surrounded by aisles, which is the exit path. If they design it to those definitions, it's done, over, code complying, nothing else required.

MERCHANDISE PAD. A merchandise pad is an area for display

of merchandise *surrounded by aisles*, permanent fixtures

or walls. Merchandise pads contain elements such as nonfixed

and moveable fixtures, cases, racks, counters and partitions as

indicated in Section 105.2 from which customers browse or

shop.

AISLE. An unenclosed exit access component that defines and

provides a path of egress travel.


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## Architect1281 (Jan 26, 2011)

My 2009 NFPA 101 has Mercantile Arrangement of Means of Egress in Art 36.2.5

and I am woefully baffled to find any such reference to your precieved non-compliance issue.

in mid store you will have your common path of travel issue to two exit paths and that should be about it

the suggested solution of guards walls and such even seems to contradict the don't obstruct the path language within that section

Art 36.2.2 Means of Egress components also does not mention such a beast.

within the NFPA General requirements there is mention of Natural unobstructed path but that is in the exit and to the exit discharge

not within the occupied space.


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## FM William Burns (Jan 26, 2011)

Based on the OP statement of 3 exits; it leads me to believe it is a Class A with an OL of 1000. I agree that the domain is 36.2.5 but 

the user must also incorporate 36.2.5.1 and specifically 7.5.1.1 and 7.5.2.1. and the “large space” leads me to believe it’s the sales floor.

I remain confident that the fire plan reviewer is in error and could only require such for egress through intervening rooms or spaces and then he/she should go back to the impediment section of 7.5. It may be possible that the reviewer may be hanging his/her hat on a loose interpretation of the “readily accessible” clause of 7.5.1.1. but this would not be applicable provided the width, visibility etc were met. Please let us know what he/she is hanging a hat on.


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## FyrBldgGuy (Jan 27, 2011)

If I get this correct, the Fire Plan Reviewer wants a partial height wall to identify the exit pathway.  On a retail floor, how do you get to the merchandise?  It would be like a maze.


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## Coug Dad (Jan 27, 2011)

daves

OK, what is your question? Does it relate to clearances between merchandise racks or a means of egress path through a storage room or other ancillary space?  The answers here are addressing both in a confusing way.


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## FM William Burns (Jan 27, 2011)

Thanks CD you asked much nicer than I could.

This is the module (LSC) I teach for the national FI certification and I'm confused???


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## globe trekker (Jan 27, 2011)

If "required", maybe something like this type of floor marking.







.


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## High Desert (Jan 27, 2011)

Maybe I didn't explain my previous post better. You have mechandise pads and you have required aisles around them. These are almost always carpeted or some other floor surface that defines the exit path. If you can distinguish the aisles from the merchadise pads, the aisles lead to an exit, and are the proper width, you don't need to mark anything.


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## cda (Jan 27, 2011)

guess

"Daves not here"


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## FM William Burns (Jan 28, 2011)

Guess he had too much big bamboo......


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## daves (Feb 3, 2011)

Sorry guys, was out of touch for awhile.

We are talking about the exit access from the sales floor only.

We are NOT exiting through intervening rooms, including the stock room.

It's big-box retail, one floor finish throughout. That is, all VCT.

Current FL building code is 2006 IBC.

Fire code is 2006 NFPA 101 and NFPA 1.

We still can't get a citing of chapter and verse from the reviewer, but this may be the question:

What does the code mean by the definition of aisle: "AISLE. An unenclosed exit access component that defines and provides a path of egress travel."

If this requires a visible change in flooring color, material or texture in order to "define" the aisle, then a whole lot of big retailers and their DP's (including us) all over the country have been getting it wrong for a very long time.

Thanks for the input, and again sorry for not getting back.


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## Gene Boecker (Feb 3, 2011)

INput!

- Johnny Five

Thanks daves.

An aisle does not require a change in color or texture.  If I put up chairs in a room (interlocking chairs, of course) I need to create an aisle for the means of egress.  This aisle will be the same as the rest of the floor.  There is no distinction between an assembly aisle or a mercantile aisle - its just and aisle.  Its an aisle as long as it's identifiable as such - meaning that you don't have to play labyrinth to find your way out.


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 3, 2011)

The key to the definition is an aisle is "unenclosed" The aisle in a merchantile is usually defined by a wall, shelving, racks or any other non portable fixture units. In a furniture store a merchandise pad might be defined by the floor coverings. Carpet areas would be the merchandise pad, bedroom suites, living room displays ect and the aisle would be VCT. That is just part of the design. I do not use the NFPA so I can't help you there but I have never heard of a requirement for visible change in flooring to define an aisle in the I-Codes.


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## FM William Burns (Feb 3, 2011)

I use 101 and that's new one for me that I can't find either with exception to stockrooms and or access through other rooms which again is not applicable in this example.  Can't wait to hopefully hear the chapter and verse.


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## daves (Feb 4, 2011)

Gene

That's a good analogy, we're including it in our next round of disussion with the city.

I can picture the local party center/conference center operator with a roll of (non-slip) tape, 'defining' the exit access aisles with some nicely contrasting stripes (should they be red to denote fire?) for each furniture arrangement they come up with.

I'll let you know how it goes.


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## cda (Feb 4, 2011)

Just for grins

You can ask the nice plan reviewer for four existing examples in the city so you can run out and what the heck he is talking about!!!!


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## FM William Burns (Feb 4, 2011)

Drop me a PM and let me know the jurisdiction location.  I may be looking to head back home and could use a lead


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## daves (Feb 4, 2011)

It got even sillier and more arbitrary, but we're done, we need the permit, and each new review costs time (=money) as well as re-review fees (= more money). We're changing the color of the floor tile to define an exit aisle. I hate giving in on issues like this, it only empowers them for the next poor sap to come along, but the economics of the deal always prevail.

Just to vent a little though, the other major issue with this review was he won't allow a security grille across the main entrance. We're not novices, we do this kind of work all over the country and have been for a long time. Which is not to say we know it all, because I learn something new every day. (Yay for me.) So we show him the appropriate sections of IBC, NFPA 1 and NFPA 101, each of which allow specifically for security grilles with a list of conditions, all of which we meet. And I of course check the state ammendments to make sure they didn't sneak something in on us. And he says no security grille, it's "against code".

Went up the ladder a bit, chief says he'll look into it. So we got an OK from the chief on the security grille, but the exit path: "Just seems like a good idea". "That way store personnel will know not to put anything there that would block the exit." (really?) "It will give me something to point at when I issue a fine to the store manager for blocking the exit, they'll learn." You get the picture. And to back up that position, the chief calls out LS 36.2.5.6 that says in a Class A mercantile occupancy not less than one aisle 60" minimum width shall lead directly to an exit. So there, chapter and verse, case closed. America made safer.

Ok, I'm done now. Weekend!


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## High Desert (Feb 4, 2011)

I hate bullies that make stuff up.


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 4, 2011)

Is there a local appeals bord to go to? It looks like they are requiring as part of their enforcement program if that is the case you should be able to ask for a declatory statement from the State Fire Marshals Office

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7n88j0xN8xsAKSJXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzcXNnbmdrBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1FJMDA3Xzcy/SIG=13lnjgq8b/EXP=1296891836/**https%3a//www.flrules.org/gateway/readFile.asp%3fsid=0%26type=1%26tid=2662279%26file=69A-60.007.doc


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## FM William Burns (Feb 4, 2011)

> And to back up that position, the chief calls out LS 36.2.5.6 that says in a Class A mercantile occupancy not less than one aisle 60" minimum width shall lead directly to an exit. So there, chapter and verse, case closed. America made safer.


Must be a national account in some wooded central Florida area??

*Mt.*

I use to love that ability but never abused it like demonstrated in this example.  Guess it's the cost of doing business now in the sunshine state.  If it were my client, we would drive up to Ocala.


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## brudgers (Feb 4, 2011)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Is there a local appeals bord to go to? It looks like they are requiring as part of their enforcement program if that is the case you should be able to ask for a declatory statement from the State Fire Marshals Office


Florida doesn't have local appeals. Last I recall, you can have it reviewed by BOAF and then the Florida Commission for a Declaration.

BOAF used to be pretty good, but they began getting a bit drunk on power when they became the official source of non-binding interpretations - cut off non-members from their listserve and stuff like that - might seem a bit familiar to some people.


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## TJacobs (Feb 7, 2011)

I think they have a great idea about delineating the exit path but it's not in the code.  I'd rather write the tickets and have them explain it to the judge...


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