# Illegal construction activity



## Mango (Dec 30, 2009)

I know every jurisdiction deals with contractors and citizens that begin working without permits. Sometimes (most of the time) it is intentional and sometimes it is an honest mistake. None the less it is still illegal. I am curious how other jurisdictions deal with this. I am needing to establish some measures that will get the word out that it is not easier to get forgivin than it is to get permission.

Currently we have double permit fees, a lengthy citation process through Municipal Courts that is an option, or if the offense is blatent enough we can get the Fire Marshal or Police to issue a citation on the spot. In either case it seems like these measures are not enough and the illegal construction continues to proliferate. Can I just shoot them? that would get the word out!  :twisted:

Mango

He who lives by the sword will get shot by those who don't.


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## rktect 1 (Dec 30, 2009)

Re: Illegal construction activity

Stop work order.

Submit for permit.

Double the fees.

Usually I am at a very very very busy time when a permit comes in for a job we stopped.  Could take extra time to review plus I like to be very thorugh on every project so......  And thus extra time before they can start back up.

Then the review goes out and a 2nd submittal to correct the review comments comes back.  I could be even more busy at this time, you just never know.  Just the luck of the draw at this point.


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## Mango (Dec 30, 2009)

Re: Illegal construction activity

"Stop work order.

Submit for permit.

Double the fees."

I get your message. Part of me would rather help them thru the process expediantly to show them that the process is relatively painless but then hit them with a healthy fine that gets em in the wallet where it really hurts. The problem is that most of the fines are limited by law not to exceed $500.00 and if the judge feels sorry for them because they did eventually get their permit, he may assess a minimum penalty. We have communicated this with the judge and I think things are a little more stringent but the overall citation process is lengthy and therefore discouraging for us to use.

I think one of the main reasons people try to avoid permits is due to negative perceptions based on rumer and not actual experience. That is why I want them to leave the permit office saying to themselves " wow that was really not that bad, I wish I wouldn't have started without a permit." By making the permit process lenghty for those who start without permits you can bet on one of two things happening. 1) they will understand you diliberately made it rough on them, or 2) they will be the ones spreading the negative perceptions that keep people from wanting to pull permits in the first place. Most likely it will be #2 and you really haven't one the war, you just won the battle.

Mango


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## cboboggs (Dec 30, 2009)

Re: Illegal construction activity

Stop Work Order, apply for permit, double fees. We give them a week or so to file for the permit before we send it to the prosecutor for action. I have found that this process works a little better. Our permit fees are REALLY low so the double fee thing isn't really that harsh.


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 30, 2009)

Re: Illegal construction activity

Homeowners I take the additude their failure to get a permit was not intentional and we try to make the process as painless as possible and may even give them options that can save them money on their project. This will curtail the negative comments from this group.

Contractors I will humor them the first time but include a comment about not wanting to have to charge a double permit fee if it happens again. Then charge the double fee if they do it again. Be consistant with the contractors. It's like training children they need to know the rules but as a parent you have to follow thru with the consequences when they disobey.


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## FM William Burns (Dec 30, 2009)

Re: Illegal construction activity

Our community has just begun the process of developing a Business Development Team (BDT) to assist customers wanting to:

*Construct*

*Remodel*

*Additions*

*Open a Business*

*Move to New Location (within city)*

*Change Uses *

*Rental Housing (etc)*

Customers would have one location to go (Building Department) and get the information on all regulatory needs of the City and County and all questions about the processes can be answered or where or who to contact to get them answered.  Customers are given a couple of forms and an electronic file (for entire process) is created and updated throughout the process and distributed to all member agencies for their needs (if necessary). Final inspections are completed by all inspection authorities (applicable) and the process is completed.  Members of the team are:

City Admin.

City Business Development Coordinator

DBA (Downtown Business Authority)

City Attorney

BO

FM

City Clerk/Taxing

County Inspection Official

Chamber of Commerce

PD

Informational PSA’s will be issued quarterly through all media and be put up on the city website with downloadable forms.  Presently, we have a similar process as those mentioned above and it works similarly in frustrations. Hopefully this concept will finally allow the left hand to know what the right hand is doing and all agencies will have knowledge (if desired) as to what is what and where


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## TJacobs (Dec 30, 2009)

Re: Illegal construction activity

Homeowner project: depending on the time of day we discover the project in process without a permit we give them until the close of business that day or the next to apply for a permit at double fee.  If they miss that we write a citation and take them to court, and then they are charged double permit fees plus a fine & court costs.

Contractors have until the close of business on the same day to apply.  Same double fee from the start.

I don't penalize the project review time but I don't move it to the top either.


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## brudgers (Dec 30, 2009)

Re: Illegal construction activity



			
				TJacobs said:
			
		

> I don't penalize the project review time but I don't move it to the top either.


That's the way it should be done.


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## cda (Dec 30, 2009)

Re: Illegal construction activity

commercial::::: I like stop work on whole project   it gets their attention for some reason


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## cboboggs (Dec 31, 2009)

Re: Illegal construction activity

I don't penalize the review time either. All our permits are processed in the order which they are received.

FM, we sort of have that process in place here for new businesses and subdivisions but not everyday normal permits.


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## jar546 (Dec 31, 2009)

Re: Illegal construction activity

Residential homeowners get a friendly reminder to come in.  If it involves a large undertaking and I notice that what they are doing is wrong, I stop the job for their own good.

Contractors of residential projects usually get stopped and are asked to come in immediately or by the end of the day.

Commercial jobs are stopped immediately until all aspects of the permit/plan review process are completed.

Rarely see double permit fees but it has been done in one muni


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## peach (Dec 31, 2009)

Re: Illegal construction activity

I always tried to treat them with kid gloves... once.... (even contractors).. sometimes jurisdictions change their procedures on a whim... I just went thru this; even though I'm a 3PP, our clients were affected by the change (which meant, we needed to change the way we did business).

Doubling the permit fee is fine (0x2 is still 0).. so that doesn't get their attention.  In the jurisdiction where I provide 3P services, the minimum fine is $2000 .. plus a double permit fee (which are kind of high to start with).

IF you jurisdiction is primarily residential construction and IF you have a good "in" with the local HBA.. I'd start there as a focus group.  (It worked well for me in a previous life).  At least they can touch the builders.. homeowners need their own focus group/public meeting.


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## Mango (Dec 31, 2009)

Re: Illegal construction activity

Thanks Peach,

Our problem is primarily the homeowners and their jek leg contractors, and commercial interior buildouts. I like the idea of $2000 fine. that will definitely get their attention. I think we would have to change the ordinance and make the offense something greater than a misdemeanor. I believe the City of Houston did that and the word spread very quickly.

Mango


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## Daddy-0- (Jan 2, 2010)

Re: Illegal construction activity

We will write them a field Letter of Defect which gives them 15 days to apply for their permits. We only stop work if it will conceal something that needs to be inspected or if the person is really belligerent. If the 15 days expires we issue a Notice of Violation and charge a $57 "investigative fee" which is not enough to deter most but it does cover our time in writing notices and doing follow ups.

If the work is by a contractor and he is uncooperative, we sometimes file a complaint with the state licensing board. We will also do this if we have repeat offenders. The board can be very harsh. We just had a work without permit judgement that involved a $2500.00 fine AND revocation of license. The contractor ignored all county correspondences.

I have one now where the contractor did work outside of the scope of his license without permit. When he hit the max contract amount he abandoned the job. That makes three violations. I asked the homeowner where he found the guy and he said that the guy had finished his neighbor's attic!!! No permit. I looked and this contractor has NEVER pulled a permit in my County yet his business is based here. No business license either. This is the type of guy that we turn in to the board of contractors.

Most of the time we give the benefit of the doubt and try to encourage people to do the right thing before we start writing multiple tickets. This works usually and helps the County keep a reputation for being nice to work with.


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## JBI (Jan 2, 2010)

Re: Illegal construction activity

Being from a rural area, word does spread VERY quickly around here.

My first jurisdiction had gone many years with a less-than-ambitious BI/CO that left the Town a laughing stock among the contractors.

 It only took a few SWOs and/or appearance tickets to get MOST to come around.

SOME will never learn (contractors OR homeowners!     ).

It's a bit like the fight between 'good' and 'evil'... It will never completely end. Just imagine a world where everyone did the right thing all the time. It's a stretch, I know. It'll never happen, I know. The best part about that is, employment status = GOOD.

I'll make it (more or less) unanimous regarding methods. Honest mistakes and first offenses get handled much more delicately than the repreat offenders.

And EVERY jurisdiction has repeat offenders.

The amount of patience we have for sob stories is directly proportional to the number of times we've heard your particular sobs.


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