# 607.6 Shower spray unit with a non-positive shut-off



## lee1079 (Oct 19, 2015)

Does anyone know what this requirement is trying to accomplish? I am unclear as to how this has to do with accessibility.

607.6 Shower Spray Unit and Water. A shower spray unit with a hose 59 inches (1500 mm) long minimum that can be used both as a fixed-position shower head and as a hand-held shower shall be provided. *The shower spray unit shall have an on/off control with a non-positive shut-off.* If an adjustable-height shower head on a vertical bar is used, the bar shall be installed so as not to obstruct the use of grab bars. Bathtub shower spray units shall deliver water that is 120°F (49°C) maximum.


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## north star (Oct 19, 2015)

*$ : $ : $*

lee1079,

Here is link to another Forum, where some of our esteemed Forum

members answered this question.......See the link:

*http://bcdg.hoop.la/topic/non-positive-shut-off*

*$ : $ : $*


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## Paul Sweet (Oct 20, 2015)

It almost makes sense, but it still doesn't seem to be very accessible to people with severe arthritis.

One person thought DOJ might have assumed people would have an aide.  I thought the purpose of ADA was to allow disabled people to live independently without anybody assisting them.


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 20, 2015)

> but it still doesn't seem to be very accessible to people with severe arthritis.


You can't account for the severity of every possible "disability" there is.


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## Francis Vineyard (Oct 20, 2015)

A117.1 Commentary "A shower head with a volume control mechanism (e.g., nonpositive  shut-off feature) on the handset is a good design feature. This allows the  shower occupant or attendant to reduce the flow of water and allows the handset  to hang down while soaping or shampooing."

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icc/ansi/2003cc/a117p1/icc_ansi_2003cc_a117p1_6_sec007.htm


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## ADAguy (Oct 20, 2015)

Paul, your comment on purpose is correct. However designers of T-III's cannot provide 100% access.

In a residential environment each case must be addressed on its own if a requested multifamily accommodation but not if it is in a hotel (there are limits as to how far you can go as you are only required to provide for minimums.

In this case however a minimum would be making the shower operable in a manner requiring "push/touch" to operate. This does not answer "how do I aim the sprayer if I can't grasp it" as you can see there is no end as to how to address individual needs.

Yes, I can roll in with a hand chair and maybe or maybe not transfer to a shower chair/bench (but not if my chair is electric). I may be ambulatory with severe arthritus or lacking a hand or arms (how than am I to open doors or operate controls unless they are touch sensitive or I have an aide.

At what point is an individual with a disability/disabilities self responsible for knowing what he/she must provide when traveling vs expecting a hotel to provide it?


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## Francis Vineyard (Oct 21, 2015)

Paul Sweet said:
			
		

> It almost makes sense, but it still doesn't seem to be very accessible to people with severe arthritis.One person thought DOJ might have assumed people would have an aide.  I thought the purpose of ADA was to allow disabled people to live independently without anybody assisting them.


 Once adjusted and secured in place can be operated with a closed fist.

I'm sure you can think of a number of ways to override (safety) features for ones own use . . .


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## lee1079 (Oct 22, 2015)

ANSI commentary makes sense. I talked to DOJ and was told below bolded.

A117.1 Commentary "A shower head with a volume control mechanism (e.g., nonpositive shut-off feature) on the handset is a good design feature. This allows the shower occupant or attendant to reduce the flow of water and allows the handset to hang down while soaping or shampooing *or transferring from wheelchair to shower seat after getting the water temperature right*."


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## Paul Sweet (Oct 23, 2015)

I just find it ironic that people in wheelchairs get to sue for thousands of dollars if a toilet is 1/2" too close to a wall or a counter is 1/2" too high, but the same ADA regulations REQUIRE a shower control that is very dificult for certain people to use.  I would't be surprised if there are more people with severe arthritis than in wheelchairs.


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## ADAguy (Oct 23, 2015)

There are Paul, this is an example of overlooked unintended consequences in the haste to get the Standards out.


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## JCraver (Oct 23, 2015)

ADAguy said:
			
		

> There are Paul, this is an example of overlooked unintended consequences in the haste to get the Standards out.


Why the haste?  After all, it's been the law for 25 years now, right?


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## mark handler (Oct 23, 2015)

JCraver said:
			
		

> Why the haste?  After all, it's been the law for 25 years now, right?


25 years is nothing

We have some people still fighting the civil war


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