# Smoke Alarms



## Min&Max (Aug 24, 2021)

About a year ago we passed a local ordinance requiring installation of interconnected smoke alarms in all dwellings when occupancy changes. Went through planning commission and city council with unanimous approval. So far no negative feedback from the public although there have been questions on proper installation.  Just curious if anyone else has passed similar ordinance in their jurisdictions.


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## cda (Aug 24, 2021)

Min&Max said:


> About a year ago we passed a local ordinance requiring installation of interconnected smoke alarms in all dwellings when occupancy changes. Went through planning commission and city council with unanimous approval. So far no negative feedback from the public although there have been questions on proper installation.  Just curious if anyone else has passed similar ordinance in their jurisdictions.




When occupancy changes????

As in new squatters, and not change of occupancy types????


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## Min&Max (Aug 24, 2021)

cda said:


> When occupancy changes????
> 
> As in new squatters, and not change of occupancy types????


Change of occupants. New tenant, new owner in a dwelling. All dwellings from multifamily to single family.


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## fatboy (Aug 24, 2021)

Do you accept wireless interconnected?

We do not have any law, except CO has a state law that when ownership changes that CO detectors be installed. Does not speak to interconnection.


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## Joe.B (Aug 24, 2021)

Does the ordinance allow the "interconnected" requirement to be met by wifi or bluetooth? The alarms are more expensive but do not require running new wires all over the house.


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## Joe.B (Aug 24, 2021)

You owe me a coke. Or do I owe you one?


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## JCraver (Aug 24, 2021)

Sorry, but that's ridiculous.  Everybody b!tches about the government - this kind of stuff is why.


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## Min&Max (Aug 24, 2021)

fatboy said:


> Do you accept wireless interconnected?
> 
> We do not have any law, except CO has a state law that when ownership changes that CO detectors be installed. Does not speak to interconnection.


Yes. We would not have pursued this if wireless interconnected were not a thing.


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## Min&Max (Aug 24, 2021)

Joe.B said:


> Does the ordinance allow the "interconnected" requirement to be met by wifi or bluetooth? The alarms are more expensive but do not require running new wires all over the house.


Yes. We would not have pursued this if wireless had not been a thing.


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## cda (Aug 24, 2021)

Min&Max said:


> Yes. We would not have pursued this if wireless interconnected were not a thing.




When occupancy changes????

As in new squatters, and not change of occupancy types????


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## Min&Max (Aug 24, 2021)

JCraver said:


> Sorry, but that's ridiculous.  Everybody b!tches about the government - this kind of stuff is why.


So we have had multiple families in our state die in their beds and the common denominator was lack of smoke alarms in the homes. Our area of the country is probably more anti-government than 80% of the country but we are smart enough to recognize life saving technology at a very reasonable cost. I have not had a single homeowner/landlord push back on this. When made aware of the wireless option the only remaining question they have is where they can get them and if I will come out to help identify proper location, which I do without charging any fees. On the average home $250.00--$300.00 will cover the cost of the alarms.


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## fatboy (Aug 24, 2021)

Heck, our Fire Prevention folks will come out and install battery operated smokes for free, to anyone!


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## JCraver (Aug 24, 2021)

fatboy said:


> Heck, our Fire Prevention folks will come out and install battery operated smokes for free, to anyone!



Ours will give them to you free, but they won't install them.


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## JCraver (Aug 24, 2021)

Min&Max said:


> So we have had multiple families in our state die in their beds and the common denominator was lack of smoke alarms in the homes. Our area of the country is probably more anti-government than 80% of the country but we are smart enough to recognize life saving technology at a very reasonable cost. I have not had a single homeowner/landlord push back on this. When made aware of the wireless option the only remaining question they have is where they can get them and if I will come out to help identify proper location, which I do without charging any fees. On the average home $250.00--$300.00 will cover the cost of the alarms.



What's "reasonable" to you may not in reality be reasonable to everyone, and that's the biggest (but not only) problem with this kind of thing.  I just spent every dime I've saved for 4 or 5 years to buy the house my wife was after, and then the town I bought it in is going to make me spend another ~$300 for smoke detectors that talk to each other before they let me move in?  Pure craziness..

I bet your fire dept. will give out free detectors, too.  A better ordinance would be to require the FD to make all new residents of town aware that they can pick them up for free.


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## Min&Max (Aug 24, 2021)

JCraver said:


> What's "reasonable" to you may not in reality be reasonable to everyone, and that's the biggest (but not only) problem with this kind of thing.  I just spent every dime I've saved for 4 or 5 years to buy the house my wife was after, and then the town I bought it in is going to make me spend another ~$300 for smoke detectors that talk to each other before they let me move in?  Pure craziness..
> 
> I bet your fire dept. will give out free detectors, too.  A better ordinance would be to require the FD to make all new residents of town aware that they can pick them up for free.


Seller/landlord are responsible for the installation. Average price of a home here that is actually habitable is probably around $125,000.00 so $300.00 is a nothing burger. Two bedroom apartments are about $900.00-$1,200.00 a month so not hurting to much either since it will run them about $150.00 to put them in. We have 25 houses on the market and that should be around 140. Apartments are rented with waiting lists before completed. No one is complaining at all after about 9 months.


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## steveray (Aug 25, 2021)

CT passed a law, but it allows the seller to pass the liability to the buyer for $250...So it never gets done because who is going to accept the potential future liability when they can sell it for 250....


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## No Soup for you (Aug 26, 2021)

The city I used to work in had a law. 

_Every house sold needed an updated Certificate of Occupancy._

We would come in and write up a CO - 1st floor - kitchen , Living rm, Dining rm, half bath, etc.
                                                                2nd fl - 3 bedrooms, 2 baths etc..... 
                                                                Basement unfinished storage only

At that time it was required to install smokes and CO alarms as per code but NOT hardwire them. Battery was just fine.

Hardwiring and/or wireless is a bit over the top.

Oh and people HATED the CO law. Thats when we found all the illegal rooming houses and apartments in basements etc...


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## tbz (Aug 26, 2021)

Min&Max said:


> Seller/landlord are responsible for the installation. Average price of a home here that is actually habitable is probably around $125,000.00 so $300.00 is a nothing burger. Two bedroom apartments are about $900.00-$1,200.00 a month so not hurting to much either since it will run them about $150.00 to put them in. We have 25 houses on the market and that should be around 140. Apartments are rented with waiting lists before completed. No one is complaining at all after about 9 months.


I can see a homeowner being able to buy and install the new smokes for the home they are selling for under $300 bucks, possibly.

however, not sure of your state regs or rules, but I doubt you could get the smokes installed in the apartments for that price, heck the quote and permit from the electrician or the licensed fire alarm company is going to start at $300.00 to walk in the door, in my neck of the woods.  I am guessing in your local, you don't needed a licensed electrician or certified fire alarm company to pull the permit and do the work?  

I am going to guess that the price is relevant to the requirements of who can actually do the installation and work.


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## Min&Max (Aug 31, 2021)

tbz said:


> I can see a homeowner being able to buy and install the new smokes for the home they are selling for under $300 bucks, possibly.
> 
> however, not sure of your state regs or rules, but I doubt you could get the smokes installed in the apartments for that price, heck the quote and permit from the electrician or the licensed fire alarm company is going to start at $300.00 to walk in the door, in my neck of the woods.  I am guessing in your local, you don't needed a licensed electrician or certified fire alarm company to pull the permit and do the work?
> 
> I am going to guess that the price is relevant to the requirements of who can actually do the installation and work.


Wireless interconnected smoke alarms are pretty easy to install. No need to run any wire at all. Ten to fifteen minutes for each one at the most. So , no, it does not require a licensed electrician or licensed fire alarm company to install them. In your typical 3 bedroom apt. you will have 4 smokes at $50.00 each so $200.00 should cover it. If landlord wants to pay someone to do it he can which will bump his out of pocket or he can provide the sweat equity and do it himself. 

Are there actually places where you have to be licensed to install smoke alarms that you find on the shelf at Home Depot?


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## Min&Max (Aug 31, 2021)

No Soup for you said:


> The city I used to work in had a law.
> 
> _Every house sold needed an updated Certificate of Occupancy._
> 
> ...


Why on earth is wireless interconnected "over the top" but battery alone without interconnection is fine? The only difference is wireless interconnection which brings the dwelling up to todays minimum requirements for a brand new home. I would agree that requiring hardwiring would be "over the top" and that is not a requirement.


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## ICE (Aug 31, 2021)

The AHJ that I work for almost follows California law.  The CRC  is clear that when a permit is obtained for any reason the smoke and CO alarms shall be installed.  

The CRC requires hardwired, interconnected  alarms.  There are exceptions...the truth is that we do not require hardwired, interconnection on any dwelling unless it is new construction. That does not comply with the code but the grief that would ensue if we did follow the code apparently outweighs the risk of killing a few people.


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## tbz (Aug 31, 2021)

Min&Max said:


> Wireless interconnected smoke alarms are pretty easy to install. No need to run any wire at all. Ten to fifteen minutes for each one at the most. So , no, it does not require a licensed electrician or licensed fire alarm company to install them. In your typical 3 bedroom apt. you will have 4 smokes at $50.00 each so $200.00 should cover it. If landlord wants to pay someone to do it he can which will bump his out of pocket or he can provide the sweat equity and do it himself.
> 
> Are there actually places where you have to be licensed to install smoke alarms that you find on the shelf at Home Depot?


In the state of NJ to work on a apartment building adding interconnected wireless or hardwired smoke detectors you have to be licensed.  Building owner nor super can do it unless they hold a state Electricians license or Fire Alarm installers license. 

To just put in a battery powered non-interconnected smoke detector, I can't tell you if it is or not, but with a state license requirement, I would not touch it with a 50ft pole for the liability.

But like I said if you locally don't require a licensed professional to pull the or a permit, then cost is different.


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