# Single Exit from Basement (Commercial - M)



## eyan50495 (Aug 10, 2020)

Hi All

So the Building Dept has reviewed our Life Safety drawings and determined that we need a second means of egress from a basement. 

This is a Mercantile Occ. with a floor plate of 10,000 SF. The basement in question has 2 stairs, picture a box with one on the midpoint of the left side and one on the bottom left corner (both 1 hour fire rated). Due to a commercial kitchen located on the lower portion of this box, the 2nd stair on the bottom left only has a single corridor going towards it. In theory, you cannot access that 2nd stair without first passing the 1st / Middle Stair and going down a corridor, past the kitchen to access it.

The DOB would like us to created a rated corridor between both stairs and says that 2 means of egress are required regardless of the occupant load.

Although it wouldn't be the end of the world to create a rated corridor, it would create issues with the function of the kitchen and other staff (they need traffic doors). 

Based on my understanding, Chapter 10 of IBC 2015 of NYS has 2 areas about Number of Exits / Exit Access. I believe 1006.3.1 Egress Based on Occupant Load is more relevant.

Our occupant load is 35 and the Common Path of Travel does not exceed 75'.

It states "Each _story _and occupied roof shall have the minimum number of independent _exits_, or access to _exits_, as specified in Table 1006.3.1. A single _exit _or access to a single _exit _shall be permitted in accordance with Section 1006.3.2."


Table 1006.3.1 states that the Min. # of Exits or Access to Exits Per Story for 1-500 occ. is 2.


Table 1006.3.2 Single Exits states:

_A single exit or access to a single exit shall be permitted from any story or occupied roof where one of the following conditions exists:_

_The occupant load, number of dwelling units and common path of egress travel distance does not exceed the values in Table 1006.3.2(1) or 1006.3.2(2)._

Going to Table 1006.3.2(2) Stories with 1 Exit or Access to 1 Exit for Other Occ., it states that:

The First story above or below grade plane  with an M Occ. must have no more than 49 Occ./Story and a Max. CPT 75'.

We meet both? Am I missing something?


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## ADAguy (Aug 10, 2020)

You are trapped below grade if only 1 exit is provided.


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## RLGA (Aug 10, 2020)

How can you have a common path of egress travel of 75 feet or less when the area of the basement is 10,000 sq. ft.?


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## cda (Aug 10, 2020)

You do know this is a building code question


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## cda (Aug 10, 2020)

eyan50495 said:


> Hi All
> 
> So the Building Dept has reviewed our Life Safety drawings and determined that we need a second means of egress from a basement.
> 
> ...





Can you post a simple floor plan


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## steveray (Aug 11, 2020)

RLGA said:


> How can you have a common path of egress travel of 75 feet or less when the area of the basement is 10,000 sq. ft.?



Fist thing I thought...Also look at T1006.3.1 at 10,000 ft you are less than 49 OL?


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## e hilton (Aug 11, 2020)

Applying the ROCS ... rule of common sense ... 10,000 underground with one exit is just wrong. If it was above ground you could say that breaking out a window would be an emergency exit, but that doesn’t work here.


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## eyan50495 (Aug 11, 2020)

cda said:


> Can you post a simple floor plan



Hi All, Sorry for posting in the wrong forum. I was thinking Fire and put this in the Fire Code instead of the BC. 

Here is a simple floor plan: https://www.dropbox.com/s/850mjzgjf6ei7bp/BASEMENT PLAN EGRESS.pdf?dl=0 

There are 2 rated stairs. The store designer created a very large kitchen which cut off Stair B and increased our CPT. We then added a 1 HR Rated Exit Passage to effectively decrease the CPT. The Inspector says # of Egress Exits are NOT based on Occupant Loads and says we need to rate the hall between the 1 Hr Rated Exit Passage and Stair B. There is a kitchen with traffic doors and restrooms, storage closets on that hall so we'd have to change those doors to become rated.

Going back to the original question:
1) Regardless of whether this is a poor layout, does a basement that has less than 49 Occ. and less than 75' CPT require 1 Exit? Can someone clarify that code section above?

2) I'm getting confused - I thought you were not allowed to have other uses (i.e. restrooms, kitchen doors, closets) within a rated corridor? Or am I getting that confused with an Exit Passage?

Thanks again!


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## eyan50495 (Aug 11, 2020)

steveray said:


> Fist thing I thought...Also look at T1006.3.1 at 10,000 ft you are less than 49 OL?



Hi Steveray, yep. We are under 49 as most of the space is Storage / Kitchen. We are also under the CPT because of an added Rated Exit Passageway. I just posed a link to a simple floor plan above.


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## cda (Aug 11, 2020)

So the only use of the basement 

is storage and kitchen??


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## cda (Aug 11, 2020)

Thinking yes provide access to both stairs

May not have to be rated


I assume a fire sprinkler system already installed?????


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## eyan50495 (Aug 11, 2020)

cda said:


> Thinking yes provide access to both stairs
> 
> May not have to be rated
> 
> ...



Yes, only storage and a commercial kitchen. The building is fully sprinkler'd but has not been installed. Right now they have not started the fitout. the only things that are done are the stair openings. 

I also thought it would not have to be rated as it is sprinkler'd however the Inspector was saying that if Stair A become obstructed, people would have to leave a fire rated passage into a non-rated corridor and go past a Kitchen to get to the secondary stair. I haven't shown him the BC on Table 1020.1 which shows a Corridor in an M Occ. would not require a fire rating.


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## cda (Aug 11, 2020)

Well if two exits are required,

To me appears your current set up, creates dead end corridor issue.

Ask the nice reviewer what code sections require rated enclosure 

Also appears the kitchen has a wall between the exit way and kitchen, so a person is not walking through the kitchen.


Plus with the storage wide open, should be able to move walls to isolate/separate the two stairs


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## RLGA (Aug 11, 2020)

steveray said:


> Fist thing I thought...Also look at T1006.3.1 at 10,000 ft you are less than 49 OL?


steveray, did you mean Table 1006.*2*.1? If so, then that is for spaces and not stories.

Eyan50495, according to your drawing, the way you measured the CPET is incorrect--diagonally through a room is not considered "the natural an unobstructed path" (in a mercantile storeroom, I seriously doubt the room will be so open to afford such a direct path).

Once someone enters a protected means of egress, the protection cannot be reduced. Occupants that enter the exit passageway from the open storage must be provided equal protection to either exit if both exits are to be considered for the open storage egress. To reach the second exit, an occupant from the open storage must leave the protection of the exit passageway.

Can the open storage space have a single exit? Yes, per Table 1006.3.2(2); however, as I previously stated, the common path appears to exceed the maximum of 75 feet. If the building will be fully sprinklered throughout, then this distance can be increased to 100 feet per footnote 'b' of Table 1006.3.2(2), which may help out. The kitchen and the smaller rooms will have two means of egress, but you need to make sure that they are separated by 1/3 the overall diagonal of the area they serve (not the entire basement).


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## eyan50495 (Aug 11, 2020)

cda said:


> Well if two exits are required,
> 
> To me appears your current set up, creates dead end corridor issue.
> 
> ...



From our understanding, we do not have a dead end condition as everything is within 50' of Dead End and or open since it is stock.

Exactly, no one is egressing through the kitchen only coming out from it to either side.

I have put the same code sections and corridor rating code section to the DOB Director, let's see what he says.


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## eyan50495 (Aug 11, 2020)

RLGA said:


> steveray, did you mean Table 1006.*2*.1? If so, then that is for spaces and not stories.
> 
> Eyan50495, according to your drawing, the way you measured the CPET is incorrect--diagonally through a room is not considered "the natural an unobstructed path" (in a mercantile storeroom, I seriously doubt the room will be so open to afford such a direct path).
> 
> ...



Hi Ron,

Thanks for the response. The diagram floor plan wasn't great but in reality, the CPET does go around the storage fixtures (gondola shelving) and is within 75' from all points (most are actually 55'). 

The doors of the kitchen are separated by 1/3 and luckily we also have 70' CPET around all the kitchen equipment. Unfortunately, we cannot take the 25' bonus because our Occ. is an M.

Based on 1020.1, we would not need to rate the corridor between the 2 stairs as we have a sprinkler system. BUT, if someone leaves that exit passageway into the unrated corridor, the fire rating would be reduced. But if 2 exits are not required then....? Just getting a little confused around the circular thinking.

Thanks


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## tmurray (Aug 11, 2020)

I wouldn't buy your path of travel, unless the furniture is mechanically fixed in place (i.e., screwed down).


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## eyan50495 (Aug 11, 2020)

tmurray said:


> I wouldn't buy your path of travel, unless the furniture is mechanically fixed in place (i.e., screwed down).



They will likely anchor the shelving down for tipping hazards. But the CPT does go around all of them.


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## RLGA (Aug 11, 2020)

eyan50495 said:


> Hi Ron,
> 
> Thanks for the response. The diagram floor plan wasn't great but in reality, the CPET does go around the storage fixtures (gondola shelving) and is within 75' from all points (most are actually 55').
> 
> ...


The main occupancy group is Group M (on the first story, I assume), but your basement is a combination of Group S-1 and F-1, so the additional distance is permitted.


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## eyan50495 (Aug 11, 2020)

cda said:


> Well if two exits are required,
> 
> To me appears your current set up, creates dead end corridor issue.
> 
> ...



The review got back to me and said the following: 

_*"The cellar is the SECOND story.  The FIRST story is the floor above.  Therefore two means of egress are required based on the occupant load. "*_


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## cda (Aug 11, 2020)

eyan50495 said:


> The review got back to me and said the following:
> 
> _*"The cellar is the SECOND story.  The FIRST story is the floor above.  Therefore two means of egress are required based on the occupant load. "*_





Ask for code section, to back it up


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## steveray (Aug 11, 2020)

I would have to think on it a bit, but it seems like you have access to the same exit passageway, not two different ones....


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## cda (Aug 11, 2020)

I think you need to start over


Lose the exit passageway 

Move a wall or two


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## eyan50495 (Aug 11, 2020)

cda said:


> I think you need to start over
> 
> 
> Lose the exit passageway
> ...



I should have done this a bit earlier but here is the ACTUAL plan: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8r1p8877yz7bs3u/BASEMENT PLAN EGRESS 2.pdf?dl=0

And the code he is referring to Table 1006.3.2(2) which says 'First Story Above or Below Grade Plane'. I can see his interpretation saying that the Basement is NOT the First Story.


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## eyan50495 (Aug 11, 2020)

We are trying to avoid a redesign of the Kitchen as best as possible. Getting rid of the rated exit passageway would be fine but my CPT would be far beyond 100' for Storage as you do not have a 2nd means of egress until you are standing in front of Stair A.


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## cda (Aug 11, 2020)

https://www.specsandcodes.com/articles/code_corner/The Code Corner No. 29 - Travel Distance.pdf


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## eyan50495 (Aug 11, 2020)

cda said:


> https://www.specsandcodes.com/articles/code_corner/The Code Corner No. 29 - Travel Distance.pdf



Someone in our office argued that since it was open, by adding the rated exit passageway, you would effectively cut down the CPT as once you get to that door, you had multiple paths around. However, ultimately, it does lead you to the same exit.


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## eyan50495 (Aug 11, 2020)

Actually, if I do remove that Exit Passageway, utilizing Ron's earlier comment about it being an S-1, I can use the full 100' CPET vs. the 75' I was using. That gets me within feet of the door of Stair A. I might be able to make it by pulling a wall here are there...


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## eyan50495 (Aug 12, 2020)

Update. Revised the plans to simply rate the Kitchen itself. Removed the exit passageway as it was complicating things. Utilized the 100' travel distance since they are F & S occupancies. 

Let's see what the DOB says....


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## steveray (Aug 12, 2020)

We also throw this in:

(Add) 1028.3.1 Remoteness. Where two or more doors leading to exit discharge are required, a
minimum of two such doors shall be placed a distance apart equal to not less than one-third of
the length of the maximum overall diagonal dimension of the building served, measured in a
straight line between doors. Additional doors leading to exit discharge shall be arranged a
reasonable distance apart so that if one becomes blocked, the others will be available.

In case the discharge of the stair is closer than the entrances...


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## ADAguy (Aug 12, 2020)

Good exercise, maybe add a 3rd stair?


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## eyan50495 (Aug 14, 2020)

RLGA said:


> steveray, did you mean Table 1006.*2*.1? If so, then that is for spaces and not stories.
> 
> Eyan50495, according to your drawing, the way you measured the CPET is incorrect--diagonally through a room is not considered "the natural an unobstructed path" (in a mercantile storeroom, I seriously doubt the room will be so open to afford such a direct path).
> 
> ...



Well the Building Dept. got back to me and saw the revised plan (I put it in the last comment). They are insistent that I cannot use the 100' CPET for F / S occ. because the basement is considered the 2nd story. Per table IBC NYS 106.3.2. I have 34 occ. which would be beyond the 29 max occ. and put me back at 75'. 

Thoughts on this?

It sounds like he wants me to rate the entire kitchen (separating the S-2 / F-1 occ.) and create a rated corridor between the stairs. Also, I'm assuming a commercial kitchen which serves prepared food on the ground floor above (grab & go / deli style / bakery) is considered F-1 and not F-2?


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## steveray (Aug 14, 2020)

A rated corridor does nothing for travel distance.....? I can see where one would get F1/S2, but I would have no issues with F1/S1 if it helped....


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## cda (Aug 14, 2020)

eyan50495 said:


> Well the Building Dept. got back to me and saw the revised plan (I put it in the last comment). They are insistent that I cannot use the 100' CPET for F / S occ. because the basement is considered the 2nd story. Per table IBC NYS 106.3.2. I have 34 occ. which would be beyond the 29 max occ. and put me back at 75'.
> 
> Thoughts on this?
> 
> It sounds like he wants me to rate the entire kitchen (separating the S-2 / F-1 occ.) and create a rated corridor between the stairs. Also, I'm assuming a commercial kitchen which serves prepared food on the ground floor above (grab & go / deli style / bakery) is considered F-1 and not F-2?




Person, are you in the Briar Patch.

Ask the nice reviewer for the section, that makes this area a 2nd floor??

Or does the reviewer mean 2nd floor below grade?

What is the sq ft of kitchen and storage areas?


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## cda (Aug 14, 2020)

This is an existing building, correct??/

If so, not sure how you are making the existing condition worse.


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## eyan50495 (Aug 14, 2020)

cda said:


> This is an existing building, correct??/
> 
> If so, not sure how you are making the existing condition worse.



Well we were the Architects for the Building Core/Shell and the Tenants. The Tenants design changed throughout and now we are having issues with this large Kitchen.

The Kitchen is 2600 SF and the remaining open storage is 7500 SF.

He is referring to the definition of 'Story'. In that table, they say 'First Floor OR Basement'. In that case, the 1st Floor is the First Floor and the Basement becomes the 2nd Story............ The OR confuses me. There is another table which speaks about Grade Plane in determining the 1st floor/basement but this reads differently to me.


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## eyan50495 (Aug 14, 2020)

To me, the only way we are getting 75' CPET will be to make the kitchen wider and longer vs. how deep it is shown as.


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## cda (Aug 14, 2020)

What is the use of the room in the upper left portion of the kitchen ??

Storeroom?


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## eyan50495 (Aug 14, 2020)

cda said:


> What is the use of the room in the upper left portion of the kitchen ??
> 
> Storeroom?


Yes. From Top to Bottom (Walk-In Coolers, Prep Areas, Cook Areas). Storage to the upper right and a managers office to the lower right.


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## RLGA (Aug 14, 2020)

eyan50495 said:


> Well the Building Dept. got back to me and saw the revised plan (I put it in the last comment). They are insistent that I cannot use the 100' CPET for F / S occ. because the basement is considered the 2nd story. Per table IBC NYS 106.3.2. I have 34 occ. which would be beyond the 29 max occ. and put me back at 75'.
> 
> Thoughts on this?
> 
> It sounds like he wants me to rate the entire kitchen (separating the S-2 / F-1 occ.) and create a rated corridor between the stairs. Also, I'm assuming a commercial kitchen which serves prepared food on the ground floor above (grab & go / deli style / bakery) is considered F-1 and not F-2?


My thoughts? They have their heads up their you-know-whats. A basement is not a second story...ever. Table 1006.3.2(2) states "Second story *above grade plane*." The basement is considered within the first row grouping "First story above or *below grade plane*"--a basement is always below the grade plane.


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## cda (Aug 14, 2020)

eyan50495 said:


> Yes. From Top to Bottom (Walk-In Coolers, Prep Areas, Cook Areas). Storage to the upper right and a managers office to the lower right.



ok was trying to see if there were a few feet to carve out a walk thru

With wall across corridor to stair and wall with doors across storeroom corridor

So basically you have a choice to go to thru doors to middle stairs or take a left and go thru the carved out portion to the bottom stairs,,

So there are walls separating the stairs


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## RLGA (Aug 14, 2020)

eyan50495 said:


> Well we were the Architects for the Building Core/Shell and the Tenants. The Tenants design changed throughout and now we are having issues with this large Kitchen.
> 
> The Kitchen is 2600 SF and the remaining open storage is 7500 SF.
> 
> He is referring to the definition of 'Story'. In that table, they say 'First Floor OR Basement'. In that case, the 1st Floor is the First Floor and the Basement becomes the 2nd Story............ The OR confuses me. There is another table which speaks about Grade Plane in determining the 1st floor/basement but this reads differently to me.


If the code used "and" instead of "or," then both conditions would need to exist in order to use that row grouping. For example, what if a building didn't have a first story below grade plane? Could they use it since only one condition of the "and" statement exists? By using "or," you look at each story individually.


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## cda (Aug 14, 2020)

eyan50495 said:


> Well we were the Architects for the Building Core/Shell and the Tenants. The Tenants design changed throughout and now we are having issues with this large Kitchen.
> 
> The Kitchen is 2600 SF and the remaining open storage is 7500 SF.
> 
> He is referring to the definition of 'Story'. In that table, they say 'First Floor OR Basement'. In that case, the 1st Floor is the First Floor and the Basement becomes the 2nd Story............ The OR confuses me. There is another table which speaks about Grade Plane in determining the 1st floor/basement but this reads differently to me.




Ok I put my Virtual Kindergarten Crayon to the math and came up with


storage 15  7500/500

kitchen 13   2600/200

That is straight math


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## eyan50495 (Aug 14, 2020)

RLGA said:


> My thoughts? They have their heads up their you-know-whats. A basement is not a second story...ever. Table 1006.3.2(2) states "Second story *above grade plane*." The basement is considered within the first row grouping "First story above or *below grade plane*"--a basement is always below the grade plane.


Yep - not sure how to handle this at this point. I'll try and get more evidence to see... I doubt he'll budge.


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## steveray (Aug 14, 2020)

Did you mean 300 for storage which would put you at 25 OL?Plus 13 for 38 total....?


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