# Utility or Plumbing Code Standard



## retire09 (Mar 17, 2015)

What determines the standard for design and construction for water and sewer lines serving multiple buildings on one lot?

Where do public utility standards stop and plumbing code standards begin?

Are lines serving several buildings on private property  public or private?


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## Paul Sweet (Mar 17, 2015)

In most cases it's at the water meter for water lines, and at the property line for sewers.  If the utility is given an easement then their standards would apply in the easement.  If there is no easement, then the lines would be private, no matter how many buildings they serve.


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## retire09 (Mar 17, 2015)

Would you think the utility could require an easement and impose their standards on private property to each building?


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## cda (Mar 17, 2015)

depends on how the ahj is set up.

In mine we own every fire hydrant and water main to them. So the city maintains all lines and hydrants.

And I assume from where the tap is made for the domestic to the building is the owners problem


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 17, 2015)

Same here. From the tap in (water and sewer) is private and not the cities responsibility


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## cda (Mar 17, 2015)

retire09 said:
			
		

> What determines the standard for design and construction for water and sewer lines serving multiple buildings on one lot?Where do public utility standards stop and plumbing code standards begin?
> 
> Are lines serving several buildings on private property  public or private?


What is the real question??

Seems like there should be a policy in place at your ahj


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## retire09 (Mar 17, 2015)

DEC here in Alaska has authority over the design and approval of public water and waste water systems. They are claiming this authority over all lines that serve any customer other than one single family home. So they are imposing their utility standards for design and construction onto private property to each building. (10' separation between water and sewer lines, easements, utility standards for pressure testing, etc..)

Where multiple buildings are on one lot, they want an engineered plan for the public water system on private property serving those buildings even though they are connected to the City maintained public mains in the street.

Has anyone heard of this being applied elsewhere in the country?


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## cda (Mar 17, 2015)

Hum::

http://dec.alaska.gov/index.htm

http://dec.alaska.gov/water/MoreAboutWater.htm

are they going to do the inspections??

does this include big cities sucha as anchorage?

I guess only indirectly here, the state imposes regulations, but normally the city has to enforce it, or it does not get enforced!!!!


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## retire09 (Mar 17, 2015)

DEC does not do inspections. The inspections are done by the designing engineers in accordance with the plan approved by DEC.

This has not been required anywhere in the State that I can find before now.

If it is a public line all the way to the building; does that mean the City is now responsible for maintenance of the lines on private property as well?

We did a project with 4 single family rental houses on one lot. I approved a plan with one water line and one sewer line serving all four.

The lines were properly sized and designed per the UPC. DEC considered the first 3 houses to be served by a public system and the 4th only to be private. Once again, all 4 are on the same property.

Has anyone heard of this kind of application of a utility standard before?


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## mark handler (Mar 17, 2015)

Utility to the meter

Plumbing Code after the meter


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## retire09 (Mar 17, 2015)

By meter do you really mean property line?


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## mark handler (Mar 17, 2015)

retire09 said:
			
		

> By meter do you really mean property line?


NO the meter maybe on the property

It is the utilities responsibility to the meter

Sewer different in different locations some to the PL some to connection point


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## steveray (Mar 17, 2015)

I think some of the utilities are trying to push repair expenses on to the property owners, but want them to play by utility rules....I say if they want me to replace their line, I will do it by the plumbing code and use asbestos cement pipe....

605.11 Asbestos-cement. Joints between asbestos-cement pipe or fittings shall be made with a sleeve coupling of the same composition as the pipe, sealed with an elastomeric ring conforming to ASTM D 1869.


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## north star (Mar 17, 2015)

*@ - - - @*

steveray,

Is asbestos-cement type piping the commonly used \ preferred

type of piping in your area,  versus pvc ?

*@ - - - @*


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## steveray (Mar 17, 2015)

north star said:
			
		

> *@ - - - @*steveray,
> 
> Is asbestos-cement type piping the commonly used \ preferred
> 
> ...


Nope.....and I don't even know if I could get it.....But it is fun when you tell people it is still legal to use....


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## north star (Mar 17, 2015)

*& % = ( ~*



Whew !.......You might mention that they could also use galvanized steel piping

for the potable water distribution inside a structure.

Then you might get the _"What's that"_  reply & look.........Priceless !    :devil



*+ & % $ ~*


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## retire09 (Mar 17, 2015)

I wish I could get more opinions of this application of utility standards by DEC.

I've been involved in construction, codes, inspections and administration for 30 years in 3 states and I have never heard of anything like this.

Any thoughts?


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## cda (Mar 17, 2015)

retire09 said:
			
		

> I wish I could get more opinions of this application of utility standards by DEC.I've been involved in construction, codes, inspections and administration for 30 years in 3 states and I have never heard of anything like this.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Is this project in fairly good size city or

Out in the tundra??

"""This has not been required anywhere in the State that I can find before now."""

So how and when did they get involved with your project???


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## retire09 (Mar 17, 2015)

We are accessible by road and have a population of about 7000. Only about half of that is on city utility water.

We wanted to decommission a well that we were having to maintain as a small separate public system for facilities on one City owned site so we ran a water service from the nearest utility main to the property. Straight from the main and onto the property.

It is a single service line on private property connected to our utility main and DEC is saying it is a public main extension and requiring an engineers design per the utility standard.


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## cda (Mar 17, 2015)

Well seems like where you connect to the "utility main" to some point seems like that could be considered as public.

How did the dec get involved /// find out???


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## jdfruit (Mar 18, 2015)

Somewhere buried in the State statutes will define the public utility authority for water systems and what locations they are responsible. Your description appears to indicate that the water service replaces a prior small public water system, the DEC may have an argument if the new water service makes connection to a system that has water delivery leaving the site to other customers.


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## retire09 (Mar 18, 2015)

The only reason DEC was aware of the new line was because we had to go through them to decommission the old well and they wanted to know where the water was from to re-feed the facility. There are no customers of any kind involved. We own the water utility and also own the facility.

My experience has always been that everything in the ROW or utility easement is done to the utility standard and maintained by the utility. Everything on private property is done per the UPC and maintained by the property owner.


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## cda (Mar 18, 2015)

retire09 said:
			
		

> The only reason DEC was aware of the new line was because we had to go through them to decommission the old well and they wanted to know where the water was from to re-feed the facility. There are no customers of any kind involved. We own the water utility and also own the facility.My experience has always been that everything in the ROW or utility easement is done to the utility standard and maintained by the utility. Everything on private property is done per the UPC and maintained by the property owner.


that seems normal, guess the dispute is where that line is??

""""DEC does not do inspections. The inspections are done by the designing engineers in accordance with the plan approved by DEC.

 This has not been required anywhere in the State that I can find before now.

 If it is a public line all the way to the building; does that mean the City is now responsible for maintenance of the lines on private property as well?

 We did a project with 4 single family rental houses on one lot. I approved a plan with one water line and one sewer line serving all four.

 The lines were properly sized and designed per the UPC. DEC considered the first 3 houses to be served by a public system and the 4th only to be private. Once again, all 4 are on the same property."""""

Is the problem that they are desinated "rental" and are all four rentals or just three and the owner is in the fourth??


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## retire09 (Mar 18, 2015)

All four are rentals. Other than the separation between each unit, I treated it the same as a fourplex with all 4 units in one building.

One water service, one sewer service, both private lines on private property per the UPC.


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## ADAguy (Mar 23, 2015)

Seems odd that they would not want seperate metering for each, owner must not be concerned about cost of water and sewer vs rents?


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