# Include Restrooms In Occupancy Calcs



## Phil B (Feb 27, 2020)

I've seen varying thoughts on whether or not the toilet room areas in an assembly occupancy are to be included in the calculation of total occupancy. Since the toilet rooms are not part of the Net area, I say NO. If it's a Business occupancy, and part of the Gross, I've reluctantly agree with YES. Thoughts?


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## steveray (Feb 27, 2020)

Gross yes, net no....


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## RLGA (Feb 27, 2020)

Phil B said:


> I've seen varying thoughts on whether or not the toilet room areas in an assembly occupancy are to be included in the calculation of total occupancy. Since the toilet rooms are not part of the Net area, I say NO. If it's a Business occupancy, and part of the Gross, I've reluctantly agree with YES. Thoughts?


Don't be reluctant, it's a definitive _yes_.


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## Phil B (Feb 27, 2020)

RLGA said:


> Don't be reluctant, it's a definitive _yes_.


How about an Exterior Waiting area in assembly occupancy? Should that be included in the calculation of required toilet fixtures? I say Yes, but would like hear a justification for a NO.


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## RLGA (Feb 27, 2020)

Phil B said:


> How about an Exterior Waiting area in assembly occupancy? Should that be included in the calculation of required toilet fixtures? I say Yes, but would like hear a justification for a NO.


It depends on the intended operation of the waiting area:

Is the waiting area occupied by attendees waiting on the next event while the assembly space is being used by other attendees? Or, 
Is the waiting area limited to those who have a seat for the event inside the assembly space?

A movie theater complex where people are in the waiting area by the doors for the next showing waiting for the people in the theaters to exit when that show is over is an example of #1.

A concert hall restricts access to the lobby area to those who hold tickets for the upcoming show--people are either in the concert hall itself or in the lobby. This is an example of #2.

If the situation is like #1, then I would say that both the assembly spaces and the waiting areas must be considered in the occupant load calculation and should be used to determine plumbing fixture counts.

If the situation is like #2, then only the occupant load of the assembly space needs to be used in determining plumbing fixture counts.


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## Tim Mailloux (Feb 27, 2020)

look up the definitions for FLOOR AREA GROSS  and FLOOR AREA NET in chapter 2........it clears things up nicely.


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## Phil B (Feb 27, 2020)

RLGA said:


> It depends on the intended operation of the waiting area:
> 
> Is the waiting area occupied by attendees waiting on the next event while the assembly space is being used by other attendees? Or,
> Is the waiting area limited to those who have a seat for the event inside the assembly space?
> ...


 
Thank you. The condition is a combination of your #1 and #2: it's an exterior waiting area for seats in a restaurant. On one hand, those waiting will occupy a seat in the Assembly area, thus a case can be made for not counting the waiting area. On the other hand, if you look at it strictly, people waiting may need to use the toilets during the same time seated guests need to use the toilets, thus making a case for the exterior area needing to be counted.
Thank you again for your input!


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## steveray (Feb 27, 2020)

We typically ask the designer to give a reasonable number of waiting people at restaurants....You could twist this a bit (if the wait was always short), but not sure I would be supportive:

[P] 2902.3 Employee and public toilet facilities. Customers,
patrons and visitors shall be provided with public toilet facilities
in structures and tenant spaces intended for public utilization.
The number of plumbing fixtures located within the
required toilet facilities shall be provided in accordance with
Section 2902.1 for all users. Employees shall be provided
with toilet facilities in all occupancies. Employee toilet facilities
shall be either separate or combined employee and public
toilet facilities.
Exception: Public toilet facilities shall not be required in:
1. Open or enclosed parking garages where there are
no parking attendants.
2. Structures and tenant spaces intended for quick
transactions, including takeout, pickup and drop-off,
having a public access area less than or equal to 300
square feet (28 m2).


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## mark handler (Feb 27, 2020)

steveray said:


> Gross yes, net no....


I agree
FLOOR AREA, NET. The actual occupied area not including unoccupied accessory areas such as corridors, stairways, toilet rooms, mechanical rooms and closets.
FLOOR AREA, GROSS. The floor area within the inside perimeter of the exterior walls of the building under consideration, exclusive of vent shafts and courts, without deduction for corridors, stairways, closets, the thickness of interior walls, columns or other features. The floor area of a building, or portion thereof, not provided with surrounding exterior walls shall be the usable area under the horizontal projection of the roof or floor above. The gross floor area shall not include shafts with no openings or interior courts.


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## khsmith55 (Feb 27, 2020)

Just finished a small Performing Arts Center (15,000 sf+), included lobby area (OLF 7), restrooms (OLF 15) and Stage (OLF 15). Even with this conservative approach I had more than enough exits and plumbing fixtures based on the building program and function. Just my thoughts.


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 27, 2020)

Toilet room OL would not be calculated in the net area of the assembly space however they should be include in the gross calculation for the office/kitchen or other use space within the building


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## steveray (Feb 28, 2020)

They always miss that on mixed use...


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