# Need help with grab bar mounting detail



## Yikes (Apr 27, 2021)

I'm trying to make an existing single accommodation toilet room ADA accessible.  The walls are concrete and they are barely over 5' clear.

The plan I've come up with involves having the grab bar extend over the front of the vanity, like this:








I know this will require precise craftsmanship, with little tolerance for error, but I think it can work.
I'm trying to figure out the detail to successfully mount the grab bar to the face of the vanity apron.  Obviously, that apron needs a structural member behind it, such as a horizontal 2x4.  The question is, how do I mount the grab bar?  Most grab bars have an escutcheon ring with screw holes that might get too close to the top of the counter.
I know there are some grab bar mounts such as "WingIts" which have a single center molly bolt.  Do you think I could modify that to fit through the face of the apron and the 2x4?


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## mark handler (Apr 28, 2021)

My concern would be the 250 lb load on that 2x.
All clearances and reach distances would now be measured to the face of bar.

Other than that I see no problem


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## TheCommish (Apr 28, 2021)

In Massachusetts the center line of the toilet  is 1 foot  6 inches of the wall


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## my250r11 (Apr 28, 2021)

Unless a level 3 alt., you should only be required to make as compliant as technically possible IMO.


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## Inspector Gift (Apr 28, 2021)

Does California require the 18" vertical grab bar?  (Shown in ICC-A117.1-2009, Section 604.5.1, and also in ICC-A117.1-2017 Section 604.5.1.2.)


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## Yikes (Apr 28, 2021)

Inspector Gift said:


> Does California require the 18" vertical grab bar?  (Shown in ICC-A117.1-2009, Section 604.5.1, and also in ICC-A117.1-2017 Section 604.5.1.2.)


No.
also, in CA the toilet clearance is 17-18" from side wall.


mark handler said:


> My concern would be the 250 lb load on that 2x.
> All clearances and reach distances would now be measured to the face of bar.
> 
> Other than that I see no problem


Assuming the bar protrudes 3", the 250" vertical force would max out at 750 inch-pounds of torque twisting the 2x4.
The 2x4 would span 3' and be "locked in" to the framing of the surrounding walls.  I would also put a perpendicular 2x4 on either side of the undermount sink.
so, I think it can figure our a way to make it handle the twisting.  If not, I'll use a steel support instead of a 2x4.


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## Yikes (Apr 28, 2021)

my250r11 said:


> Unless a level 3 alt., you should only be required to make as complaint as technically possible IMO.




This is a common area toilet room in public housing, and the owner is requesting it.


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## north star (Apr 29, 2021)

*~ + ~ + ~*
*
I recommend using a section of rectangular steel tubing
instead of the 2" x 4", and bolt it or weld it together,
...for strength & durability........Also, there are some nice
stainless steel sections of tubing that be used for the
vertical supports.
*
*~ + ~ + ~*


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## e hilton (Apr 29, 2021)

Agree on the steel tube at the vanity.  We have used that detail for wide counters that need support without a middle leg.  And with 36” width you could make it U-shaped and bolt to the floor, or the side walls.  And have the fabricators weld the handrail to the face of it.  Make the whole thing stainless and leave it exposed.


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## Rick18071 (Apr 29, 2021)

Looks to be that the grab bar is in the required clear space in front of the lav. ICC/ANSI A117.1 only lets grab bars to be permitted in the water closet clearance.


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## tbz (Apr 29, 2021)

Just have the grab bar custom fabricated in, 1/4" wall SS 3163L tubing, from wall to wall and add  at the set point in front of the basin.

the wall to wall with heavy wall tubing will exceed any of the load requirements and can act as a feature if you wrap to the one side also.


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## e hilton (Apr 29, 2021)

Rick18071 said:


> Looks to be that the grab bar is in the required clear space in front of the lav.


Move the lav forward on the counter.


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## Yikes (Apr 29, 2021)

Rick18071 said:


> Looks to be that the grab bar is in the required clear space in front of the lav. ICC/ANSI A117.1 only lets grab bars to be permitted in the water closet clearance.


If countertops are allowed to be in the space of a lavatory, why couldn't the grab bar be considered as part of the countertop system?  As long as I've provided the required knee/toe clearance, and the lav controls are not further back than that reach range as measured form front face of grab bar, I'm thinking it could comply.


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## ADAguy (Apr 29, 2021)

Rick18071 said:


> Looks to be that the grab bar is in the required clear space in front of the lav. ICC/ANSI A117.1 only lets grab bars to be permitted in the water closet clearance.


Doesn't extend more than 4", OK to do subject to structural support.


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## ADAguy (Apr 29, 2021)

Seen this done in hotel rehabs.


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## Yikes (Apr 29, 2021)

ADAguy said:


> Seen this done in hotel rehabs.


Yes, good point.  So many older toilet rooms were designed with 5' clear between the walls (30" for toilet + 30" for lav).
California's 11B makes compliance difficult within this 5' clearance by requiring that the CL of lav be 18" away form any adjacent obstruction.
If I can get this detail to work, it will be helpful on may other retrofits.


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## ADAguy (Apr 30, 2021)

Have to get creative, maybe reduce thickness of plaster or gyp? Depends on how walls were framed (bearing vs nonbearing, maybe go flat studs or metal?


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