# Budget/ quantifying increased staffing......



## steveray (Sep 3, 2012)

I have a problem....our division head asked me...(not my boss whose job budgeting is) to come up with some ways to put some concrete (uncured of course) numbers as to just the amount of workload our new school project is going to create for our 2 inspector, 1 office staff department.....it seems he needs to attend a council meeting to beg for $50k of the $600k we just took in for overtime or part time help.  The whole thing is just ridiculous to me, but I am going to try...

     I didn't know if anyone out there had a chart or some kind of matrix for approximating inspections and plan review timelines based on square foot and/or construction type or cost?  Any third party operators (Jeff or peach maybe) that might have something to give me a shot in the dark on this one?   Similar to the ICC construction value tables, but giving the manpower hours needed to follow these projects through to completion.....

   This could easily turn into a giant rant, but I am tired,...maybe later......Happy Labor Day!

Thanks for any help!


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## brudgers (Sep 3, 2012)

That's easy.

  Just take the amount of money allocated.

  Divide by the hourly cost of an FTE.

  That's how long it will take.

  On paper.


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## cda (Sep 3, 2012)

Have you done a school project in the past??? And if so do you track the hours on target???

Maybe just budget for a part timer

Ask the gc what his projected finish date then calculate back with "x" number of hours aloted for the school inspections


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## steveray (Sep 4, 2012)

Thanx Brudgers.......but I said soft concrete numbers...not paper!  .....CDA...I have not in this Town and neither have they in a way that can be tracked....no historical data to go from, this one permit fee is double our annual department budget, and THEY just say "well it can't be that much work" so  I have to support a case for additional funds.  As it is they have only given us (and by us I mean me) about a week for plan review.....I may go with the 2 yrs project X hrs a day method, I figured with more private parties doing code stuff (per bid?) and depts becoming more computerized, the information might be out there..... We give back over $100k on our worst year and $300k last year, this year it should be about 1mil into the general fund.....you'd think it wouldn't be that hard to get a position..... 

On a budget of about $300k...........


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## cda (Sep 4, 2012)

well if it was going to be easy, guess you would not have asked!!!

should have asked

1. what kind of school?? elemetary, middle, high?

2. have many buildings??

3. how many sq ft per building?

4. what stages of inspection do you plan on doing??

5. hopefuly has a fire sprinkler system and fire alarm, who is going to do that plan review and inspections??????

have you considered just having it third partied??? with your oversight???


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## brudgers (Sep 4, 2012)

steveray said:
			
		

> Thanx Brudgers.......but I said soft concrete numbers...not paper!  .....CDA...I have not in this Town and neither have they in a way that can be tracked....no historical data to go from, this one permit fee is double our annual department budget, and THEY just say "well it can't be that much work" so  I have to support a case for additional funds.  As it is they have only given us (and by us I mean me) about a week for plan review.....I may go with the 2 yrs project X hrs a day method, I figured with more private parties doing code stuff (per bid?) and depts becoming more computerized, the information might be out there..... We give back over $100k on our worst year and $300k last year, this year it should be about 1mil into the general fund.....you'd think it wouldn't be that hard to get a position.....    On a budget of about $300k...........


  Anchoring....  They're at $0.

  Get a quote from ICC for plan review.

  Now reasonable is somewhere in between.

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/your-money/psychology-price-anchoring


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## moose (Sep 4, 2012)

We currently have a 77 million school project going on with part time plumbing and electrical inspectors. The state wont let us charge permit fees, so in lieu of that, we asked the contractors to figure in $30,000 dollars ea. for inspector salaries. The plumbing and electrical inspectors then submit logs of inspections and get paid $50. per hr. for the duration of the 3 year project. This is in addition to their regular salaries. so far it has worked out well. We are approx. a year into the project.


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Sep 4, 2012)

steveray said:
			
		

> I didn't know if anyone out there had a chart or some kind of matrix for approximating inspections and plan review timelines based on square foot and/or construction type or cost?  Any third party operators (Jeff or peach maybe) that might have something to give me a shot in the dark on this one?   Similar to the ICC construction value tables, but giving the manpower hours needed to follow these projects through to completion.....
> 
> Thanks for any help!


I don't have any tables, or matrices, but from our experience.  We had at a minimum, one inpsector on site at least once per day (time was usually established by a quick phone call to the site foreman), but early on it was once in the morning and once in the afternoon.  Plan review was spread out over 8 business days (I have other duties to perform, so I would estimate around 24-30 hours for all departments involved).  On the conservative side, I would add about 10 hours to that if you are not comfortable with E occupancy plan review and another 10 hours for re-review of resubmittals or change orders.  I highly recommend a preliminary life safety meeting with the design team before hand.  1-2 more hours there.  And then there are all the phone calls with contractors and RDP's if you really want to get down to brass tax.

...or, just do what brudger's stated, and aim for the middle, for a reasonable number.


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## steveray (Sep 5, 2012)

Wow!...8 days...you guys are good.....takes me 2 days to get familiar with the building then the ratings, penetrations, doors, hardware, accessibility, electrical, energy, sprinklers, HVAC, smoke control, fire alarm, life safety, etc.....



			
				Papio Bldg Dept said:
			
		

> I don't have any tables, or matrices, but from our experience.  We had at a minimum, one inpsector on site at least once per day (time was usually established by a quick phone call to the site foreman), but early on it was once in the morning and once in the afternoon.  Plan review was spread out over 8 business days (I have other duties to perform, so I would estimate around 24-30 hours for all departments involved).  On the conservative side, I would add about 10 hours to that if you are not comfortable with E occupancy plan review and another 10 hours for re-review of resubmittals or change orders.  I highly recommend a preliminary life safety meeting with the design team before hand.  1-2 more hours there.  And then there are all the phone calls with contractors and RDP's if you really want to get down to brass tax....or, just do what brudger's stated, and aim for the middle, for a reasonable number.


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## cda (Sep 5, 2012)

1. what kind of school?? elemetary, middle, high?

2. have many buildings??

3. how many sq ft per building?

4. what stages of inspection do you plan on doing??

5. hopefuly has a fire sprinkler system and fire alarm, who is going to do that plan review and inspections??????

have you considered just having it third partied??? with your oversight???


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## brudgers (Sep 5, 2012)

steveray said:
			
		

> Wow!...8 days...you guys are good.....takes me 2 days to get familiar with the building then the ratings, penetrations, doors, hardware, accessibility, electrical, energy, sprinklers, HVAC, smoke control, fire alarm, life safety, etc.....


  Work expands to fill the time available.


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## steveray (Sep 5, 2012)

1. what kind of school?? elemetary, middle, high?....high

2. have many buildings??....1

3. how many sq ft per building?  ....176,152

4. what stages of inspection do you plan on doing??......All

5. hopefuly has a fire sprinkler system and fire alarm, who is going to do that plan review and inspections??????.....Yes and 3 story atrium with a tower in the middle of it, smoke control, etc......we do all of it....and by we I mean the dept of 2 inspectors.....(BO's)


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## steveray (Sep 5, 2012)

There...fixed it for you...... 



			
				brudgers said:
			
		

> Work expands when the DP does not put the code required information on the plan for the contractors to follow.


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## cda (Sep 5, 2012)

Ouch sounds like there should have been some third party review built into the price

Especially with the atrium, smoke removal

Can the city take some of the permit money and send some of the plans out for third party???

A high school has a few more problems then elementary


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