# R-3 Elevator



## Francis Vineyard (Mar 31, 2017)

Your thoughts on the elevator shaft penetrating 4 stories.

1. IRC 3 story + basement and occupiable roof. The roof can be accessed by an elevator; no rating required.

2. Same as above but a room (home office) above the 3rd story (takes up 1/3 of the flat roof but is not considered a mezzanine above the ceiling).

For No. 2 with the same foot print as #1 (27 x 36) and a 13R system requires a 2 hr. elevator shaft.

Paradoxially in both scenerios the stair tower can be unenclosed.

Am I missing something?


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## steveray (Mar 31, 2017)

Are you talking about the difference between IRC and IBC?


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## Francis Vineyard (Mar 31, 2017)

steveray said:


> Are you talking about the difference between IRC and IBC?


Yep, kicks in a rated shaft for the same number of floor penetrations; does that make sense to you for an R-3; single family dwelling?


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## cda (Mar 31, 2017)

Francis Vineyard said:


> Yep, kicks in a rated shaft for the same number of floor penetrations; does that make sense to you for an R-3; single family dwelling?




Code section for the shaft requirement


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## cda (Mar 31, 2017)

Plus have you seen the  discussion,,

If elevator is open and not in a shaft, never mind.


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## Francis Vineyard (Mar 31, 2017)

cda said:


> Plus have you seen the  discussion,,
> 
> If elevator is open and not in a shaft, never mind.


Pneumatic vacuum elevator considered enclosed?


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## JPohling (Mar 31, 2017)

vacuum elevator would need a shaft to operate


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## cda (Mar 31, 2017)

Francis Vineyard said:


> Pneumatic vacuum elevator considered enclosed?




IRC Code section requireing shaft or limit to openings in a house??


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## Francis Vineyard (Mar 31, 2017)

JPohling said:


> vacuum elevator would need a shaft to operate


True


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## Francis Vineyard (Mar 31, 2017)

cda said:


> IRC Code section requireing shaft or limit to openings in a house??


No but the same elevator design in IBC does!


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## cda (Mar 31, 2017)

Well if it is not written it is not so


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## cda (Mar 31, 2017)

Sorry I foget they keep changing the alaphbet in the code

Is this a plain old house or some other R-3???


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## Francis Vineyard (Mar 31, 2017)

Same Detached Single Family Dwelling

1. IRC an elevator 4 stories (basement plus 3 stories) and an occupiable roof (a level but not a story).
2. IBC the elevator penetrates 4 stories to a room on the roof.

Can you justify not to require a 2 hour shaft?


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## Rick18071 (Mar 31, 2017)

Wouldn't the home office make it 4 floors which is out of scope for IRC?


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## cda (Mar 31, 2017)

Francis Vineyard said:


> Same Detached Single Family Dwelling
> 
> 1. IRC an elevator 4 stories (basement plus 3 stories) and an occupiable roof (a level but not a story).
> 2. IBC the elevator penetrates 4 stories to a room on the roof.
> ...




Well
There must be stairs open to at least three floors?? Not enclosed 

Correct?


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## Francis Vineyard (Mar 31, 2017)

cda said:


> Well
> There must be stairs open to at least three floors?? Not enclosed
> 
> Correct?


That is permitted in the IBC by an exception in 2012 1009.3 and 2015 1019.3 to not enclosed stairs, is there one for elevator shafts?

_Exit access stairways _serving and contained within a single residential _dwelling unit _or _sleeping unit _in Group R-1, R-2 or R-3 occupancies are not required to be enclosed.

The exception for elevator if it's unconcealed;

*712.1.2 Individual dwelling unit. *Unconcealed vertical openings totally within an individual residential dwelling unit and connecting four stories or less shall be permitted.

*713.14 Elevator, dumbwaiter and other hoistways. *Elevator, dumbwaiter and other hoistway enclosures shall be constructed in accordance with Section 713 and Chapter 30.


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## cda (Mar 31, 2017)

But you are dealing with IRC


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## Francis Vineyard (Mar 31, 2017)

cda said:


> But you are dealing with IRC


I'm dealing with a development that will have the same dwelling units, one with and occupiable roofs under IRC. Others will be 4 story above grade under the IBC.

The elevators in all these detached single family dwelling units will penetrate 4 stories.  But the IBC ones that are sprinklered 13R are required to have 2 hr. shafts!

Is this reasonable?


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## cda (Mar 31, 2017)

Oh


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## cda (Mar 31, 2017)

If the project falls under IBC, yes reasonable 



Not our fault they build strange stuff strange ways


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## Francis Vineyard (Mar 31, 2017)

cda, thanks for your opinion. Anyone else?


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## cda (Mar 31, 2017)

Read through this thread and see if it helps


https://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/threads/elevator-shaft-without-ratings.16674/


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## Francis Vineyard (Apr 1, 2017)

Let me restate the question; other than because the code says so, and in reference to the other exceptions permitted   (unlimited exit access travel distance for less than 20, single exit, storage access under stairs, nonrated partitions, unlimited openings 5 ft. FSD, etc.) is there a reason to rate the shaft within a single family dwelling (of type 5B construction)?


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