# permits never really expire



## ICE (Sep 3, 2013)

A business owner has decided to build a car wash at a gas station and mini-mart.  He bought the property from a major oil company nine years ago.  There is no CofO and all of the permits for the mini-mart expired 28 years ago.  The owner was informed of this prior to purchasing the property.

Plenty has gone on at the site in 28 years.  HVAC, water heater, propane dispenser, subpanels, canopy raised 4', underground fuel tanks replaced, gasoline dispensers.  The issue of the expired permits hasn't been brought up until now.  Why? I don't know.  There is a new office manager for this area and I have been told to find a way to legalize the structure with the least amount of grief possible.

The expired building permit has an approval for the foundation and that's all.  The building is all steel post and beam. The only other approval is rough wiring.

We still have a set of plans from 28 years ago.  I was the inspector for the propane dispenser.  I don't think that the building matches the plans and I am going there tomorrow.

My first reaction is that the car wash is a separate structure from the min-mart so why do we need to legalize it before we can issue a permit for the car wash?

I was told that it is wrong to have a business operating in a building that was never given a CofO.  Like I didn't know that.

This new manager plans to right every wrong.

A couple of these cases should be enough to cure that.

The owner told me that he has become a licensed general contractor for the purpose of building the car wash.  He said becoming a contractor has made it possible to hire the best possible subs for the lowest possible price.  With those exact words.

I wanted to tell him that his next move should be becoming the building inspector assigned to this area.  Otherwise, his cheap subcontractors will be doing a lot of work twice.  The worst part of all this is that he will have no clue if the work is any good or not.

He has been working on this project for six years.  He recently obtained planning dept approval.  I hope that the CofO problem doesn't derail his project but he went into this knowing the facts.

I am mystified as to why the Building dept. expired the permits.  There had to be a building standing to obtain a sign-off on the rough electrical.

The canopy over the dispensers is a separate structure but no permit is found.  There are building and electrical permits to raise the canopy four feet.  There are various permits for signs that are mounted on a building with no CofO and a canopy with no permits.  How did Edison energize the property unless the Building dept. gave a release?

The people that worked here 28 years ago are long gone.  If as I suspect, the building doesn't match the plans, the problem grew a bunch.

There is a 400 amp service that has been installed and altered so a licensed electrician....wait a minute...this guy is a newly minted contractor...change licensed electrician to somebody....so now it should read somebody shall get the service plan checked and permitted.

And what about a lack of restroom facilities for the public...do we do this with 28 year old code or get a current permit.


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## Rider Rick (Sep 3, 2013)

Tiger,

How do you find these kind of jobs or should I say how do these jobs find you?

The next thing the owner should become is a lawyer or maybe the Mayor.


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## Rick18071 (Sep 3, 2013)

What code was used 28 years ago when they got the permit? Did it require rest rooms then?


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## mtlogcabin (Sep 3, 2013)

> There is a new office manager for this area and I have been told to find a way to legalize the structure with the least amount of grief possible.


Create a CO for the existing building and have the new office manager sign it.

28 years and how many earthquakes has it been through and still standing? Structure must be okay. As for the rest of it that you can see and inspect then do it.



> My first reaction is that the car wash is a separate structure from the min-mart so why do we need to legalize it before we can issue a permit for the car wash?


 Agree but you may be able to use that project for getting restrooms on site


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## ICE (Sep 3, 2013)

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> What code was used 28 years ago when they got the permit? Did it require rest rooms then?


I haven't gotten that far into this to know what code was in force then.  It wasn't until recently that a mini-mart would be required to provide accessible restrooms.


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## ICE (Sep 3, 2013)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Create a CO for the existing building and have the new office manager sign it.28 years and how many earthquakes has it been through and still standing? Structure must be okay. As for the rest of it that you can see and inspect then do it.
> 
> Agree but you may be able to use that project for getting restrooms on site


I always give credit for longevity.  The dilemma I face here is that the building is pretty much all steel and the structural components are concealed.  If water got to any of it, 28 years is a long time to rust away.  Next is the rooftop HVAC.  There are several large units on the roof.  I was told that of the three, only one operates.  So were the others left up there for a particular reason?  Is the additional weight a concern.  The electrical rough was signed off but there is a service and several distribution panels that are not 28 years old.

Rather than have this owner acting as a general contractor, I would prefer an experienced contractor that is familiar with metal buildings and gas stations in particular.


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## Uncle Bob (Sep 3, 2013)

Ice,

This is an easy one that we all get from time to time.  "There is a new office manager for this area and I have been told to find a way to legalize the structure with the least amount of grief possible."  That is political talk for "pass it and move on".

Uncle Bob


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## Rider Rick (Sep 3, 2013)

Have the BO give the C of O.


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## ICE (Sep 3, 2013)

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> Ice,This is an easy one that we all get from time to time.  "There is a new office manager for this area and I have been told to find a way to legalize the structure with the least amount of grief possible."  That is political talk for "*pass it and move on*".
> 
> Uncle Bob


It will be a cold day in Hell when I get there.


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