# Building your own trusses



## atvjoel (Aug 13, 2021)

Thanks for hand holding first and foremost, I am just trying to build a home for my family its just a 24x36 ranch style home and want to save as much as I can. I got a quote for 12k for my trusses I can build them for 4k myself, 1/3rd the cost. 

details
1- I am in Alaska outside the city limits. I have autocad and can build them perfectly, no different then the plant. Obviously I will need to fabricate a truss press and not smack the plates in with a hammer.
2-The design I already have given by Spenard Builders Supply has dimensions and everything including the mending plates and design and load criteria, wind, snow etc. 
3-outside city limits so I will be on purely intrnational building code. 

My inspector said "they have to be engineered." I am reading through International Building Code and  does not say they have to have stamped specs to accompany the trusses assuming its residential under certain criteria, which my place is small simple single story home. I also read some detail here https://www.structuremag.org/?p=14283

I want to build the trusses myself. I am not going to say a single thing to my inspector but i am wondering if he calls it on me am I in the right here? I am not a code wizard i am reading I just dont see where it says you cant build them unless they are overseen by an engineer. Obviously they have to have proper design, which I already have in specs given to me with Spenard Builders Supply quote/layout sheets. They have everything on there. 

Am i in the right here? Just want my guns loaded if I do this and the inspector tells me the need to be from the plant and stamped.

Thanks in advance appreciate any response.


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## atvjoel (Aug 13, 2021)

atvjoel said:


> Thanks for hand holding first and foremost, I am just trying to build a home for my family its just a 24x36 ranch style home and want to save as much as I can. I got a quote for 12k for my trusses I can build them for 4k myself, 1/3rd the cost.
> 
> details
> 1- I am in Alaska outside the city limits. I have autocad and can build them perfectly, no different then the plant. Obviously I will need to fabricate a truss press and not smack the plates in with a hammer.
> ...


Long day 24'x64' dont know why I said 36 been up since 4am. Thank you all this is great forum


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## cda (Aug 13, 2021)

Well in the old days people did it.

I see them do it at job sites???

Just don’t call them trusses


atvjoel said:


> Thanks for hand holding first and foremost, I am just trying to build a home for my family its just a 24x36 ranch style home and want to save as much as I can. I got a quote for 12k for my trusses I can build them for 4k myself, 1/3rd the cost.
> 
> details
> 1- I am in Alaska outside the city limits. I have autocad and can build them perfectly, no different then the plant. Obviously I will need to fabricate a truss press and not smack the plates in with a hammer.
> ...



You can ask nicely for the code sections requiring what he is requiring


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## cda (Aug 13, 2021)

Not my area but check this

*R301.1.3 Engineered Design*

Where a building of otherwise conventional construction contains structural elements exceeding the limits of Section R301 or otherwise not conforming to this code, these elements shall be designed in accordance with accepted engineering practice. The extent of such design need only demonstrate compliance of nonconventional elements with other applicable provisions and shall be compatible with the performance of the conventional framed system. Engineered design in accordance with the _International Building Code_ is permitted for buildings and structures, and parts thereof, included in the scope of this code


*R301.1 Application*

Buildings and structures, and parts thereof, shall be constructed to safely support all loads, including dead loads, live loads, roof loads, flood loads, snow loads, wind loads and seismic loads as prescribed by this code. The construction of buildings and structures in accordance with the provisions of this code shall result in a system that provides a complete load path that meets the requirements for the transfer of loads from their point of origin through the load-resisting elements to the foundation. Buildings and structures constructed as prescribed by this code are deemed to comply with the requirements of this section


Than maybe go to and show you hit each element 



*802.10 Wood Trusses

R802.10.1 Truss Design Drawings*


Truss design drawings, prepared in conformance to Section R802.10.1, shall be provided to the building official and approved prior to installation. Truss design drawings shall be provided with the shipment of trusses delivered to the job site. Truss design drawings shall include, at a minimum, the following information:

Slope or depth, span and spacing.
Location of all joints.
Required bearing widths.

Design loads as applicable.
4.1. Top chord live load (as determined from Section R301.6).
4.2. Top chord dead load.
4.3. Bottom chord live load.
4.4. Bottom chord dead load.
4.5. Concentrated loads and their points of application.
4.6. Controlling wind and earthquake loads.

Adjustments to lumber and joint connector design values for conditions of use.
Each reaction force and direction.
Joint connector type and description such as size, thickness or gage and the dimensioned location of each joint connector except where symmetrically located relative to the joint interface.
Lumber size, species and grade for each member.

Connection requirements for:
9.1. Truss to girder-truss.
9.2. Truss ply to ply.
9.3. Field splices.

Calculated deflection ratio or maximum description for live and total load.
Maximum axial compression forces in the truss members to enable the building designer to design the size, connections and anchorage of the permanent continuous lateral bracing. Forces shall be shown on the truss design drawing or on supplemental documents.
Required permanent truss member bracing location


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## patrickjames (Aug 14, 2021)

*R802.10.2 Design*

Wood trusses shall be designed in accordance with accepted engineering practice. The design and manufacture of metal-plate-connected wood trusses shall comply with ANSI/TPI 1. The truss design drawings shall be prepared by a registered professional where required by the statutes of the jurisdiction in which the project is to be constructed in accordance with Section R106.1.


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## Mark K (Aug 14, 2021)

You may want to ask how much your time is worth.  I suspect that the difference is because the employees at the truss company are getting paid and you are doing the work for free.  I  further suspect that the truss company employees are more efficient than you and will spend fewer hours.  So even if you value your time less than what the truss company workers are paid it may still be more cost effective for  them to do the work.  Also consider that the  truss company will be faster than you.  Do you want to be enclosed by winter?

As to the question of whether you have to hire an engineer that may be a question for the state agency that licenses engineers.  There may be an exception if you as the homeowner are doing it for the house you will be living in.  Check with the licensing body.    In spite of the language in the IRC it is the state licensing statutes that  determines whether something must be designed by an engineer.

I suspect that from the  building code perspective you likely only have to show that your design complies with the building code provisions.  But in this case it is unlikely that you can do this if you have not had an engineering education and were knowledgeable regarding the standards governing wood truss design.

Was the design provided by the building supply company stamped and sealed by a registered engineer.  If not the building supply company may be  practicing engineering without a license.  Has the engineer who stamped the truss design recognized that the design you have is appropriate for your project.

Who designs  "...the size, connections and anchorage of the permanent continuous lateral bracing."?

You may want to  hire an engineer to do the engineering.


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## TheCommish (Aug 14, 2021)

Manufactured Truss use a lot a machine test lumber with higher stress values than SPF or other sawn lumber, that being said the lumber you buy at the big box or lumber yard is not he same material a the truss manufactures uses.


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## SDS (Aug 14, 2021)

Is there some reason you can't just put up as ridge beam and rafters on that size home?

As a former truss mfg the answer to your question is no...

The answer you're looking for though is this...get an engineer to stamp a truss design using plywood gussets instead of metal plates...perfectly legal to accomplish what you want to do...

If you do it without a stamp on a design you're likely to be asked to provide supporting engineering or tear it out


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## atvjoel (Aug 14, 2021)

patrickjames said:


> *R802.10.2 Design*
> 
> Wood trusses shall be designed in accordance with accepted engineering practice. The design and manufacture of metal-plate-connected wood trusses shall comply with ANSI/TPI 1.
> 
> ...


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## atvjoel (Aug 14, 2021)

SDS said:


> Is there some reason you can't just put up as ridge beam and rafters on that size home?
> 
> As a former truss mfg the answer to your question is no...
> 
> ...


It has Engineering, they gave me the entire design on a PDF. I work with Engineers at a Mine Site, "Engineering and Engineers" is a very loose word. I could be a toilet cleaning Engineer by title which just means Janitor. The Truss manufacture said a stamp is not required but they said they can have the PDF stamped if I need them to. The Building Inspector just certifies after final that i am meeting minimum International Building Code code standards here outside city limits in Alaska. We only have 5 or 6 inspections here. 

I am reading through code and its not black and white I am getting mixed messages as I am not a 20 year veteran builder I am *sadly* a millennial trying to build a home for his family. 

So this article is wrong?
 Note that under the IRC, both the residence and the wood Truss design could be performed by persons who are not Registered Design Professionals. There may be times when the Building Official will require the Truss Design Drawings to be prepared and stamped by a Registered Design Professional even though the structure was not. The key to this IRC provision is that if the jurisdiction requires the Construction Documents to be prepared by a Registered Design Professional, then the Truss Design Drawings shall also be prepared by a Registered Design Professional.


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## atvjoel (Aug 14, 2021)

TheCommish said:


> Manufactured Truss use a lot a machine test lumber with higher stress values than SPF or other sawn lumber, that being said the lumber you buy at the big box or lumber yard is not he same material a the truss manufactures uses.


But they say right on the design they are using SPF #2 except the bottom cord which is DF 1800F 1.6E 

I am probably barking up wrong tree but its hard to spit out an extra 7k to have someone else build something you know you can do yourself. I have built trusses in the past on 2 un inspected houses its easy, just have to get a jig or at least a template and a home made plate press.


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## bill1952 (Aug 14, 2021)

Going through similar process. Did you diy estimate include MSR lumber, as I'm sure the truss manufacturer uses?  you can use glue and ply gussets - as designed and specified by an engineer - but try to find MSR lumber.  The engineer can design trusses with more commonly available lumber, likely no. 1 or SS, but also larger members - like 6 or 8 wide.

In 24',  rafters and a structural ridge - load bearing walls or columns - would be simpler diy.  You can lift every rafter. You won't be able to lift home built trusses.  Not even with a couple friends.  And you might get away without a structural ridge but 24' ceiling joists will be tricky.  But dead simple and tolerant.  And all by the book.


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## atvjoel (Aug 14, 2021)

bill1952 said:


> Going through similar process. Did you diy estimate include MSR lumber, as I'm sure the truss manufacturer uses?  you can use glue and ply gussets - as designed and specified by an engineer - but try to find MSR lumber.  The engineer can design trusses with more commonly available lumber, likely no. 1 or SS, but also larger members - like 6 or 8 wide.
> 
> In 24',  rafters and a structural ridge - load bearing walls or columns - would be simpler diy.  You can lift every rafter. You won't be able to lift home built trusses.  Not even with a couple friends.  And you might get away without a structural ridge but 24' ceiling joists will be tricky.  But dead simple and tolerant.  And all by the book.


I can build them all for $110-$150 a piece depending which truss I will build as lumber just came way down but yet the Truss Plants have not reflected the drop because they want to pawn their overpriced lumber off on the consumer. They are charging me $333 a truss. Even if it ends up being more then what I calculated and ends up everything shoots up I am still saving 6k in a couple weeks worth of work. Thats 3k a week. After taxes at work i only take home after taxes 3k a week and have to be away from my family to do that.

I can lift them I did it in the past with 2x6 trusses on same width (uninspected) house I built but it was single story you couldnt do it two story. You flip them upside down, get one side up, flip it on its side, slide it over with one guy holding the other end, the other guy lifts up on other wall, you lide it over, then one guy gets in the middle to hold it while other guy blocks. It wouldnt work on a wider home then I am building but it will work on my place. 

I am reading through code Its a little convoluted. My inspector said they had to be engineered, but as i mentioned in previous message "engineering" is loose word. We have engineers at this Mine I work at that design blast patterns, none of which are actually licensed in this state. 

This article says this and I am trying to verify if its wrong. Spenard Builders Supply said the trusses are not required to have a stamp. They already provided me with all the specs 

People on here I much appreciate their advice but can someone call out this article and say its wrong  Note that under the IRC, both the residence and the wood Truss design could be performed by persons who are not Registered Design Professionals. There may be times when the Building Official will require the Truss Design Drawings to be prepared and stamped by a Registered Design Professional even though the structure was not. The key to this IRC provision is that if the jurisdiction requires the Construction Documents to be prepared by a Registered Design Professional, then the Truss Design Drawings shall also be prepared by a Registered Design Professional. https://www.structuremag.org/?p=14283


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## atvjoel (Aug 14, 2021)

cda said:


> Not my area but check this
> 
> *R301.1.3 Engineered Design*
> 
> ...


As I mentioned, I already have the entire design, what materials, what plates. Its all SPF except the bottom chord. If you look closer """""exceeding the limits of Section R301"""" I am still reading if I exceed R301. I am outside city limits but local city specs is 110mph wind, snow load 70# and seismic is D2. We dont have super high winds where I am at and thats insane they rate it for that.


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## cda (Aug 14, 2021)

atvjoel said:


> As I mentioned, I already have the entire design, what materials, what plates. Its all SPF except the bottom chord. If you look closer """""exceeding the limits of Section R301"""" I am still reading if I exceed R301. I am outside city limits but local city specs is 110mph wind, snow load 70# and seismic is D2. We dont have super high winds where I am at and thats insane they rate it for that.





ok getting mixed messages



3-outside city limits so I will be on purely intrnational building code. 

My inspector said "they have to be engineered." I am reading through International Building Code

Who is this inspector you talk about???

I know Alaska is a different moose,,,, I heard build first,,,    Inspect after built.

So if outside city limits,,,, how do they have jurisdiction . ???


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## atvjoel (Aug 14, 2021)

cda said:


> ok getting mixed messages
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In Alaska we do not have City Inspectors, or Borough Inspectors (County in lower 48). We have Inspectors Certified by the State to either perform inspections on Existing Homes, or New Construction, or Both. The State Certified Inspectors basically Inspect anywhere outside city limits, because incorporated cities have their own inspectors.

In my case new construction .They inspect and after final they provide a PUR-102 stating you meet minimum code standards which can be given to the banks for proper financing if you ever go to sell it, because without that FHA or VA will not loan on it.


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## atvjoel (Aug 14, 2021)

atvjoel said:


> In Alaska we do not have City Inspectors, or Borough Inspectors (County in lower 48). We have Inspectors Certified by the State to either perform inspections on Existing Homes, or New Construction, or Both. The State Certified Inspectors basically Inspect anywhere outside city limits, because incorporated cities have their own inspectors.
> 
> In my case new construction .They inspect and after final they provide a PUR-102 stating you meet minimum code standards which can be given to the banks for proper financing if you ever go to sell it, because without that FHA or VA will not loan on it.


I meant to say we do not have those if you are outside city limits. There is no borough inspectors here, only city, but if you are outside city limits obviously city wont come inspector your construction, the state certified will.


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## cda (Aug 14, 2021)

atvjoel said:


> I meant to say we do not have those if you are outside city limits. There is no borough inspectors here, only city, but if you are outside city limits obviously city wont come inspector your construction, the state certified will.



Thanks 

That is what I thought just wanted to confirm 

Heard from other alaska inspectors ,,, Sometimes,, they fly in after the building is totally built.


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## atvjoel (Aug 14, 2021)

cda said:


> ok getting mixed messages
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Also thats not correct here, they have to do most of what your lower 48 peeps do. My last inspection was pressure test for my underground schedule 40. They inspect through the whole process (there is only 6 inspections though). After final you get the PUR-102 to give to a bank if you ever go to sell it. 

Inspections not required here yo can build whatever kind of cobbled garbage you want, its just if you go to sell it.


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## cda (Aug 14, 2021)

You can ask for the code section he is citing ,,, to see what it says ,, and that he has one

If he does and will not back off,,  should be an appeals process , you can represent yourself


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## atvjoel (Aug 14, 2021)

cda said:


> Thanks
> 
> That is what I thought just wanted to confirm
> 
> Heard from other alaska inspectors ,,, Sometimes,, they fly in after the building is totally built.


That may be true for some very isolated remote projects but I am 6 minutes to Fred Meyer, and 20 minutes to Home Depot so I dont fit in to that category.


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## atvjoel (Aug 14, 2021)

cda said:


> You can ask for the code section he is citing ,,, to see what it says ,, and that he has one
> 
> If he does and will not back off,,  should be an appeals process , you can represent yourself


Right on man, thank you. Going to send him an email now just saying I am building them, back your sh!t up if you dont agree (in a nice way)


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## bill1952 (Aug 14, 2021)

I can't figure out if you are required to build to any code and if you are, who is the code official.  If there is an official and they want RDP sealed truss design drawings in conformance with R802.10, game over.  As many building officials have told me, arguing with a b.o. is like wrestling a pig in mud  The pig usually wins and likes wrestling in mud.

As far as "engineering"  I've never even considered it means other than by a Registered Design Professional.


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## atvjoel (Aug 14, 2021)

bill1952 said:


> I can't figure out if you are required to build to any code and if you are, who is the code official.  If there is an official and they want RDP sealed truss design drawings in conformance with R802.10, game over.  As many building officials have told me, arguing with a b.o. is like wrestling a pig in mud  The pig usually wins and likes wrestling in mud.
> 
> As far as "engineering"  I've never even considered it means other than by a Registered Design Professional.


There is no building officials outside city limits here. There is no county (Boroughs here) inspectors either, that's why there is state certified inspectors you can hire IF you choose to that are minimally qualified to inspect and verify you are building to minimum code standards. Alaska is wild west of building. Pretty much do whatever you want BUT if you ever want to sell your home under all financing options from a bank then you need the PUR-102 you get after final that you give to the bank so your buyer is not limited to one or limited financing options. 

Alaska essentially, do whatever the heck you want, but if you ever want to appeal to broader buyer market then get it inspected so you can provide the inspection letter to the bank stating it has been built to minimum code standards. We do not have standard building officials.


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## cda (Aug 14, 2021)

atvjoel said:


> There is no building officials outside city limits here. There is no county (Boroughs here) inspectors either, that's why there is state certified inspectors you can hire IF you choose to that are minimally qualified to inspect and verify you are building to minimum code standards. Alaska is wild west of building. Pretty much do whatever you want BUT if you ever want to sell your home under all financing options from a bank then you need the PUR-102 you get after final that you give to the bank so your buyer is not limited to one or limited financing options.
> 
> Alaska essentially, do whatever the heck you want, but if you ever want to appeal to broader buyer market then get it inspected so you can provide the inspection letter to the bank stating it has been built to minimum code standards. We do not have standard building officials.



So who does the inspector you are talking to,,,

Answer to???   Who is his boss/// agency??


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## cda (Aug 14, 2021)

What's Inspected — North Star Engineering & Inspection
					

In general we follow a   safe, sound, and sanitary   guideline for the properties we check.  While that sounds subjective, it needs to be, because depending on the age of the home and location, codes and expectations differ.  Unique building code here in Alaska (o




					www.nsealaska.com


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## cda (Aug 14, 2021)

I think an inspector from alaska is still posting on the site

Might look at owner builder section:::,


Under penalty of perjury, by my signature below, I certify that the required inspections have been completed and to the best of my knowledge the building meets or exceeds standards set forth under AS 18.56.300 and 15 AAC 150.030 and that I qualify as an exemption under AS 08.18.161. If I am an owner-builder under AS 08.18.161(11), I further certify that I have not built a single family building, duplex, triplex, fourplex or commercial building within the prior two years.


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## atvjoel (Aug 14, 2021)

cda said:


> So who does the inspector you are talking to,,,
> 
> Answer to???   Who is his boss/// agency??


They answer to no one other then renewing their license every 2 years. They are Licensed Inspectors with a letterhead that can provide you with the PUR-102. 

I sent my inspector an email laying out that I would like to build my own trusses per specs that I was given by the truss designer at Spenard Builders Supply, and that i cant find anywhere in Code book that specifically states it has to be stamped and that the homeowner cant build the trusses, unless it is commercial or falls outside R301


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## Mark K (Aug 15, 2021)

What I am hearing is that outside of certain cities there is no building code that must be complied with.  Because of this there can be no claims of protecting the public.

The role of these inspectors is to facilitate commercial transactions related to the sale of the building.


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## ICE (Aug 15, 2021)

atvjoel said:


> I can build them all for $110-$150 a piece depending which truss I will build as lumber just came way down but yet the Truss Plants have not reflected the drop because they want to pawn their overpriced lumber off on the consumer. They are charging me $333 a truss. Even if it ends up being more then what I calculated and ends up everything shoots up I am still saving 6k in a couple weeks worth of work. Thats 3k a week. After taxes at work i only take home after taxes 3k a week and have to be away from my family to do that.
> 
> I can lift them I did it in the past with 2x6 trusses on same width (uninspected) house I built but it was single story you couldnt do it two story. You flip them upside down, get one side up, flip it on its side, slide it over with one guy holding the other end, the other guy lifts up on other wall, you lide it over, then one guy gets in the middle to hold it while other guy blocks. It wouldnt work on a wider home then I am building but it will work on my place.
> 
> ...


If your weekly take home pay is $3000.00 you are tripping over dollars to pick up pennies.


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## tmurray (Aug 16, 2021)

Mark K said:


> Was the design provided by the building supply company stamped and sealed by a registered engineer.  If not the building supply company may be  practicing engineering without a license.  Has the engineer who stamped the truss design recognized that the design you have is appropriate for your project.


In my experience, the truss manufacturer usually provides the un-sealed design until the client pays. Once payment is received, the manufacturer sends the design to their engineer for review and stamps. 

I want to be very clear, it is very common to see changes to the preliminary design after the engineer performs their review. We do not even look at preliminary truss plans. They get changed so often that it is a waste of time. I would not build with those drawings unless an engineer stamped it. 

You are saying that getting them to build it is not work 6000$. I would say 6,000$ is not worth risking my family's life over.


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## jar546 (Aug 16, 2021)

atvjoel said:


> There is no building officials outside city limits here. There is no county (Boroughs here) inspectors either, that's why there is state certified inspectors you can hire IF you choose to that are minimally qualified to inspect and verify you are building to minimum code standards. Alaska is wild west of building. Pretty much do whatever you want BUT if you ever want to sell your home under all financing options from a bank then you need the PUR-102 you get after final that you give to the bank so your buyer is not limited to one or limited financing options.
> 
> Alaska essentially, do whatever the heck you want, but if you ever want to appeal to broader buyer market then get it inspected so you can provide the inspection letter to the bank stating it has been built to minimum code standards. We do not have standard building officials.


Well, that part of Alaska got what it asked for, allowing the mortgage companies to determine standards.  Since you want to save money, I assume that take into consideration building an adjustable, full size jig needed to ensure each truss is exactly per specs.  Your questions are best answered by the PUR-102 inspectors as it is obvious that per the IBC and most every other standard around the world, wood trusses are required to be engineered.

I assume you are going to make your own concrete and CMU too in order to save money?  If you are going to build your own engineered trusses I assume you are going to build the entire house by itself to save money.  You may be able to build your own trusses but you still need that PUR-102 and that requires review of the truss design and stamp along with inspections during construction so you still have to get an inspector to sign off on it, you can't just do what you think you can and expect an inspector to approve it so there is the gamble right there.  

Are the delays in your project worth the money you are saving or think you are saving?  Do you have the space needed to keep the moisture content down own the wood and build and store the wood trusses?  Is your method of gusset attachment acceptable to the engineer that will sign off of this?  Did you get a price from the engineer for his/her services from beginning to completion?  What is the roof snow load for your area?


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## steveray (Aug 16, 2021)

A 24' wide roof does not seem that hard to build without engineered trusses....? Am I missing something?


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## bill1952 (Aug 16, 2021)

As the article stated, whether or not the trusses and truss plan and details have to be sealed by an RDP is up to the jurisdiction.  In this case, it seems the state is the jurisdiction. The state does not require permitting and  inspection but if you want it for future loans, the state will inspect.  Somewhere there must be a record of the state's choice to require or not sealed plans for the trusses.

first:



			https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ahfc.us/download_file/690/674&ved=2ahUKEwjRtYe0xLXyAhVJTd8KHcwsDMsQFnoECAMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3Lmb90NalDqeEP8wppdIoW
		


And I can't find if AHFC required an RDP for R810 or not.  Hopefully your inquiry will get you an answer.


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## Pcinspector1 (Aug 16, 2021)

This is some strange stuff.
It would be interesting where you find machine grade lumber used for building trusses or even No 1 grade specified lumber species. 

In our state their is a gap allowance and the truss manufactures have to met the gap sheets, apparently that's not required either. 

Does the hire engineer specialized in truss inspections? or is the engineer just verifying loads and attachments? Just curious.


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## classicT (Aug 16, 2021)

No one seems to have said this so far, so...

You cannot use the engineered truss design prepared by a supplier to make your own trusses. The design prepared and given to you as a part of a quote is still their property. It has only been provided to you as a tool for completing your design and for review purposes. No warranty or standard-of-care is granted or implied with these "draft" documents.

If you use them as your design basis, I would argue that the truss designer would have no responsibility, even if they were stamped by a PE. Their design belongs to them, and if manufactured by yourself, or even another truss company, it would be an act of theft against their intellectual property.

If you want to site build the trusses, hire an engineer and have them provide you a design that includes plywood gussets as suggested by others. Although, if I were to bet, the supposed savings you are striving for would be lost on the cost of the engineer, your time, etc.

Save yourself the headache and buy the trusses or follow conventional framing methods (rafters and joists).


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## Inspector Gift (Aug 16, 2021)

atvjoel,​Experience is a good teacher.​We all like to learn from others on this forum.​You can either follow the suggestions given here to buy engineered trusses or stick frame it as per the building code, or do what you like...  But, Please share how it turns out and what you learn.​​.​


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## Pcinspector1 (Aug 16, 2021)

The truss software determines the joint gusset plates to be used, I assume it's not that hard for an engineer with pen and paper to design the plywood gusset plates and the amount and type of fasteners to be used?


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## bill1952 (Aug 16, 2021)

Pcinspector1 reminds me iirc that every piece of lumber in a truss is MSR because visual inspection is not accurate enough for these highly engineered assemblies.  Just because a drawing from a truss fabricator says no. 2 SPF, does not mean all no. 2 SPF is strong enough. Pretty sure that the fabricator will MSR each piece to be sure defects not visually detectable and usually OK in say a stud, but potentially catastrophic in a truss, are found and rejected.


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## Paul Sweet (Aug 16, 2021)

The truss plates also have to have certain "bite" and clearances from ends & edges of members to achieve the strengths that the calculations were based on. There are also limits on the gaps between members where they join.  This information doesn't show up on the truss shop drawings.  Your trusses might not be strong enough if you don't put each plate in exactly the location required by the design standard.  Part of the manfacturer's quality control is verifying plate locations and whether too many teeth got flattened when the plates were pressed on.  Trusses also require the proper bracing to assure they can't be knocked over like a row of dominoes.

Stick framing is a lot easier and more forgiving, and the code has prescriptive standards.


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## Mark K (Aug 16, 2021)

2SPF means that  it is  not MSR.  MSR lumber has a different grading designation


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## Pcinspector1 (Aug 16, 2021)

Some added info:
From SBAC (Structural Building Components Assoc.) Structural framing grades like *Select Structural, No. 1, No. 2, No. 3, MSR and MEL* are all used in trusses. It is important to make sure that the proper lumber size, species and grade chosen in the truss design program will be used in production because selecting that information in the truss design software allows the program to pull lumber and plate strength. If the *species and grade used is not included* *in the program’s lumber file, it may mean that the plate manufacturing company does not have data on plate strength values in that particular type of lumber.* At that point, contact the plate manufacturer for more information.


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## Beniah Naylor (Aug 16, 2021)

I suggest using a directly supported beam for your ridge board and using cut rafters. If your ridge board is designed as a beam, you don't need collar ties or ceiling joists per R802.3, and you can still get a vaulted ceiling in there (if that's your style).

Way easier than building trusses, the only downside might be the cost of the beam itself.


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## redeyedfly (Aug 17, 2021)

bill1952 said:


> Pcinspector1 reminds me iirc that every piece of lumber in a truss is MSR because visual inspection is not accurate enough for these highly engineered assemblies.  Just because a drawing from a truss fabricator says no. 2 SPF, does not mean all no. 2 SPF is strong enough. Pretty sure that the fabricator will MSR each piece to be sure defects not visually detectable and usually OK in say a stud, but potentially catastrophic in a truss, are found and rejected.


Quite the opposite.  Trusses are designed to MINIMIZE the use of MSR.  MSR is expensive, engineers attempt to design the most efficient structure.  Using a higher grade than necessary is not efficient use of materials.  They do sometimes substitute higher grades depending on what stock they have on hand.

To the OP:  This scheme seems penny wise and pound foolish.  Build a press for the plates??  Good luck keeping the geometry consistent.  Sounds like a nightmare to assemble on the structure with the lack of tolerance you'll be able to achieve for hand built trusses.  
But good luck buddy!


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## bill1952 (Aug 17, 2021)

Thank you. I thought I read otherwise we on a truss fabricator's web site.


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## atvjoel (Aug 24, 2021)

steveray said:


> A 24' wide roof does not seem that hard to build without engineered trusses....? Am I missing something?


Hard and trying to deal with inspector is two different things. I just decided to buy the trusses because my inspector refused to accept non "engineered" truss. The frustrating thing is that home built doesnt mean its not engineered.


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## atvjoel (Aug 25, 2021)

redeyedfly said:


> Quite the opposite.  Trusses are designed to MINIMIZE the use of MSR.  MSR is expensive, engineers attempt to design the most efficient structure.  Using a higher grade than necessary is not efficient use of materials.  They do sometimes substitute higher grades depending on what stock they have on hand.
> 
> To the OP:  This scheme seems penny wise and pound foolish.  Build a press for the plates??  Good luck keeping the geometry consistent.  Sounds like a nightmare to assemble on the structure with the lack of tolerance you'll be able to achieve for hand built trusses.
> But good luck buddy!


Little smuggy response in my opinion with all due respect. Basic Welding and school of hard knocks school and you could easily fabricate a 20 ton plate press which his what the factory uses. I have monster compressor I would use air. I went with engineered, prefabed, and stamped trusses the other day and sopend the money, extra 6-7k because my inspector said he needed stamped design, which doesnt coincide with what I read in code book, but im not a wizard and literally no one on this forum could say yes or no without opinion involved. I researched code and said basically you need engineering calcs and not a stamp unless you are exceeding certain criteria. R301. 
Great forum here and maybe I can provide value here in the future.


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## atvjoel (Aug 25, 2021)

classicT said:


> No one seems to have said this so far, so...
> 
> You cannot use the engineered truss design prepared by a supplier to make your own trusses. The design prepared and given to you as a part of a quote is still their property. It has only been provided to you as a tool for completing your design and for review purposes. No warranty or standard-of-care is granted or implied with these "draft" documents.
> 
> ...


First and foremost i pulled the trigger and just paid the extra 7k on them the other day because Im confused on the language in residential code. They stamped the EXACT design they sent me with structural P.E at no charge. Second, My argument is IF you have the calcs would code restrict xxxx. Again you are bringing in opinion. 

"Site bulding trusses" I get the bias if you are building big huge house but good grief. I am a tiny ranch style duplex with 2' footings 10" thick 3 channels of rebar, vertical rebar with "hooks". This is not a code remark but I built multiple houses with "site built trusses" and mine are beefier then the local truss plant, and the houses withstood record snowfall.


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## Mark K (Aug 25, 2021)

Laws are necessary when we interact with other people.  If you do not want to deal with laws then go to someplace where there are no people.  I am sure there are many such places in Alaska.  Maybe this project is too close to civilization.

My belief is that if you are the only  one occupying your house and what you do will not impact others then do what you want.  If this means that the roof will fall on you then you can get the Darwin Award.  But then we have your family and guests, do they suffer the  same result?

In my experience those that are loudest about claiming that they know how to make a safe building and do not need codes or engineering, do not know enough to know what they do not know.  Sometimes they are lucky and do not have problems but that just reinforces their ignorance about their ignorance.

There is confusion about building codes and needing an engineers stamp.  Building codes are to address issues related to health and safety.  Registration of engineers is  about the qualification of the engineer, which is handled by a state agency.  One of the reasons for wanting an engineers stamp on the design is because the engineer should make sure that the  design is is appropriate for the location where it will be used.  How  do you know the truss design you were given was not intended for Phoenix AZ?  Also a  truss design that was intended for a  simple roof may not be adequate when the building configuration results in large drifts.


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## redeyedfly (Aug 25, 2021)

atvjoel said:


> Little smuggy response in my opinion with all due respect. Basic Welding and school of hard knocks school and you could easily fabricate a 20 ton plate press which his what the factory uses. I have monster compressor I would use air. I went with engineered, prefabed, and stamped trusses the other day and sopend the money, extra 6-7k because my inspector said he needed stamped design, which doesnt coincide with what I read in code book, but im not a wizard and literally no one on this forum could say yes or no without opinion involved. I researched code and said basically you need engineering calcs and not a stamp unless you are exceeding certain criteria. R301.
> Great forum here and maybe I can provide value here in the future.


It was a lot smuggy.

Sure you could fabricate a press but it would be an enormous waste of resources for a few trusses.  It demonstrates your lack of understanding of how trusses are engineered.  There is no reason you would need a press for a one off truss project.  Presses facilitate volume manufacturing.  It would be many times faster to use plate connectors with fasteners or simple plywood gussets.  But you have no idea what the forces are or how to design a truss so you're attempting to copy an engineered design out of ignorance.  

The BO was right, you need an engineered design with a LDP signed off for your project on your site.


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## bill1952 (Aug 25, 2021)

atvjoel-

I'm sympathetic, finding some things I could do myself and know it was safe and exceeded minimums but code does not allow it, 2x6 rough sawn studs on 16" centers versus 2 x 4 grade stamped studs on 24" centers.  As to where the IRC says it's required to be designed by a RDP, the state and its designated inspectors are the jurisdiction, and the code says if required by the jurisdiction. R106.1 and R802.10.

I'm sorry if I missed this but I am curious why not just build it following the prescriptive rafter and ceiling joists or rafters and structural ridge beam so many have asked?  It would have to be simpler, faster, and less expensive than home built trusses.  Maybe you'd just enjoy the challenge of building a press and using plate connectors more but I find the art of cutting rafters almost as much fun as cutting stair stringers, plus I can lift every piece myself, unlike a truss.  Just curious.

Best wishes for a safe and speedy build.  I'm guessing you're trying to get closed in for this coming winter.


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## atvjoel (Aug 25, 2021)

Mark K said:


> Laws are necessary when we interact with other people.  If you do not want to deal with laws then go to someplace where there are no people.  I am sure there are many such places in Alaska.  Maybe this project is too close to civilization.
> 
> My belief is that if you are the only  one occupying your house and what you do will not impact others then do what you want.  If this means that the roof will fall on you then you can get the Darwin Award.  But then we have your family and guests, do they suffer the  same result?
> 
> ...


The truss design I was given was from a local alaska truss plant. As I said in previous message, I went forward with them and just paid the money but they stamped the exact plans the sent me. The discussion on here was if its required to be stamped in International Building Code. I read it and seems only you need stamp if you are exceeding R301. On a side note this would not be to code because the truss calculator has disclaimer on it, but I built two un-inspected houses using this calculator with fink style truss and those houses are still standing strong and withstood snowiest winter on record. I went with 2x6 for my top and bottom cord though. http://design.medeek.com/calculator/calculator.pl 

By all means you can stamp every single thing on your project, but I have a budget and every single extra thing ads up. Where you can save that enables you to get your project done.


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## Pcinspector1 (Aug 25, 2021)

atvjoel,

When you get those trusses delivered, it's important to stack them properly and keep them dry. When you swing them in place, it's important to look for the bearing tags if applicable. Did you ask for an attic scuttle? Did you ask for an attic fan location in the trusses? 

Pay attention to the *notes* when you get the engineered paperwork for fasteners, stiffeners, bracing, joist hanger call outs and width of bearing. Important to tie the trusses off to prevent collapse. 

Also there is a truss connecting screw on the market that goes through the bottom side of the top plate into the roof truss, maybe helpful?


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