# We only build with wood because it’s cheap



## jar546 (Feb 11, 2021)

I found this interesting


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## ADAguy (Feb 12, 2021)

We have been using it in America since the beginning and many are still standing if maintained. 
No it is not stone but stone and concrete have been known to fail.


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## fatboy (Feb 12, 2021)

But, as of 2021 IBC, we can now go 18 stories with mass timber.


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## jar546 (Feb 12, 2021)

ADAguy said:


> We have been using it in America since the beginning and many are still standing if maintained.
> No it is not stone but stone and concrete have been known to fail.


I am going to start a movement to ban wood from construction.  Who's with me!?


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## fatboy (Feb 13, 2021)

jar546 said:


> I am going to start a movement to ban wood from construction.  Who's with me!?


 Come on out to the IBC/IRC code change hearings, you can join in with the Concrete and Steel groups, that is always their goal.


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## jar546 (Feb 13, 2021)

fatboy said:


> Come on out to the IBC/IRC code change hearings, you can join in with the Concrete and Steel groups, that is always their goal.


After living in Florida for almost 9 years, I am mostly anti-wood other than roof trusses, maybe, some of the time.


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## fatboy (Feb 13, 2021)

jar546 said:


> After living in Florida for almost 9 years, I am mostly anti-wood other than roof trusses, maybe, some of the time.



I would concur with that, if I were in a coastal or earthquake prone region, I would be looking at concrete and steel also. Same in our Rocky's in CO, I would be looking at fire-resistant construction.


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## Mark K (Feb 13, 2021)

In California where we worry about earthquakes and don't have hurricanes masonry buildings are often problematic.

Wood buildings last.  For example my neighborhood is probably older than 70 years and the house values are still appreciating.

In any case the video is biased and evidences a lack of understanding of a number of issues.  Who sponsored the video?


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## jar546 (Feb 13, 2021)

Mark K said:


> In California where we worry about earthquakes and don't have hurricanes masonry buildings are often problematic.
> 
> Wood buildings last.  For example my neighborhood is probably older than 70 years and the house values are still appreciating.
> 
> In any case the video is biased and evidences a lack of understanding of a number of issues.  Who sponsored the video?


I don't know if anyone in particular sponsored the video.  Here is a list of some of their advertisers.  https://cheddar.com/advertise


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## Keystone (Feb 14, 2021)

jar546 said:


> I am going to start a movement to ban wood from construction.  Who's with me!?




I have so many questions, I’m not sure where to start?

I’ll preface this, I’m not pro wood or steel or concrete. I actually started my career in masonry, loved it. Received many awards and offers but for me that career track will have you using a back brace among other vices by age 30, voluntary or involuntary.  Not a terrible preventive measure but I didn't want to join the ranks of the involuntary.      

You have a bldg code “built” around wood construction, do you think it’s possible accomplish banning wood and If so why? Even the highly progressive and to some seemingly over the top state of California hasn’t banned wood! 

Why would a person propose to start a movement to ban on a product that’s been economical and used productively for longer then we’ve been alive?

You have moved states and witnessed a now preferred method of construction. Expanding knowledge is fantastic for all but I ask why does this new region of residence rely on alternate methods of construction, could it be moisture or strength to deal with those regional conditions? Although wood structures albeit limited due exist in that region and have lasted the test of time, some better then others.  

Wood is acceptable for one part of a build (roof) but not another (walls)? So it’s durable and strong enough as a roof assembly but not a wall assembly. If your going to go for it, why not go it all the way with the ban. 

Is it you seek a greener process, saving the forest?


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## jar546 (Feb 14, 2021)

Keystone said:


> I have so many questions, I’m not sure where to start?
> 
> I’ll preface this, I’m not pro wood or steel or concrete. I actually started my career in masonry, loved it. Received many awards and offers but for me that career track will have you using a back brace among other vices by age 30, voluntary or involuntary.  Not a terrible preventive measure but I didn't want to join the ranks of the involuntary.
> 
> ...



So much for my vision of better quality construction for longevity like europe.  Now I feel like John Belushi in Animal House


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## Rick18071 (Feb 15, 2021)

Buddhist temple Horyu-ji

The Buddhist temple *Horyu-ji*, in Japan, is composed of several buildings. Its five-story wood-and-stucco *pagoda*, originally built in 607, stands out as the oldest wooden construction in the world: it is more than 1,400 years old.


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 15, 2021)

Jar
Have you come across older buildings constructed with Dade county pine? https://dadecountypine.com/
When I worked on renovating the Coral Gables Biltmore Hotel in the mid 80's you could not hammer a nail in it or drill a screw in it with out twisting the screw off. We used a powder actuated nail gun with brown shot to drive a 3/4" nail in. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_Biltmore_Hotel
A lot of house where built with Dade county pine and have been through many hurricanes and survived with little or no structural damage.


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## jar546 (Feb 15, 2021)

Rick18071 said:


> Buddhist temple Horyu-ji
> 
> The Buddhist temple *Horyu-ji*, in Japan, is composed of several buildings. Its five-story wood-and-stucco *pagoda*, originally built in 607, stands out as the oldest wooden construction in the world: it is more than 1,400 years old.
> View attachment 7501


And still not as old as stone structures


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## Mark K (Feb 15, 2021)

The old masonry structures we see are the ones that have survived.  What happened to the others.

The problem is not  with the material but with the design (formal or informal) of the building.  A appropriately designed wood building can resist hurricanes and an appropriately designed masonry (reinforced masonry) can survive an earthquake.  On the other hand if not done properly neither type of construction will be adequate.

If properly followed the provisions of the IRC can  mitigate against the worst, but it is  subject to misinterpretation.  The IBC does a better job of of providing guidance but there was pressure for a simpler code.  The problem is that contractors and most building department plan checkers and inspectors have not had the training that engineers have and are not able to identify when codes are being improperly interpreted and what to do in special situations.

A little less bashing of California.  If California is such a bad place why do so many people want to move here?


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## Keystone (Feb 15, 2021)

A little less bashing of California.  If California is such a bad place why do so many people want to move here?
[/QUOTE]

I believe you have misinterpreted the following comment, “Even the highly progressive AND TO SOME SEEMINGLY OVER THE TOP state of California hasn’t banned wood!”.   

Also, all reports I’ve seen indicate California is seeing an exodus of migration not an influx.


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## steveray (Feb 16, 2021)

If we just banned people that didn't know what they were doing from construction, it would solve all of the problems...


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## Rick18071 (Feb 16, 2021)

The great late architect Frank Lloyd Wright believed a house should not out live the owner. Falling water did not have any wood and needed extensive work in less than 40 years after built.


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## Pcinspector1 (Feb 16, 2021)

jar546 said:


> I am going to start a movement to ban wood from construction. Who's with me!?



This isn't gonna end well?

Back when your ancestors lived in caves there was some guy that proposed a movement to use wood I suspect!


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## Sifu (Feb 16, 2021)

From the classes I have taken it seems they are pushing an extremely pro-wood narrative right now in college (which ties in very nicely with the CLT-tall wood movement).  Lots of time spent teaching about the evils of concrete, masonry and steel.  Almost all from an energy point of view.  I guess they aren't worried about deforestation anymore.  I wish they would make my mind up for me and tell me what I am supposed to like on a more consistent basis.


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## jar546 (Feb 16, 2021)

1 word.  Termites


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## classicT (Feb 16, 2021)

We only build with wood because it's cheap...

Yup, we only drive Honda/Toyota/Ford/etc. because they are cheap too. Maybe if we weren't all so cheap, we'd all drive Bugatti's.

I'd say this has been over-simplified a bit too far and gone into the ridiculous realm.


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## Pcinspector1 (Feb 16, 2021)

classicT said:


> Yup, we only drive Honda/Toyota/Ford/etc. because they are cheap too. Maybe if we weren't all so cheap, we'd all drive Bugatti's.


I think Jar drives a souped-up Vestpa with no helmet! 

Bugatti....that's probably Kennedy's style!


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## jar546 (Feb 16, 2021)

Pcinspector1 said:


> I think Jar drives a souped-up Vestpa with no helmet!
> 
> Bugatti....that's probably Kennedy's style!



I found an old pic of Chris Kennedy and I on a road trip


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## jar546 (Feb 16, 2021)

classicT said:


> We only build with wood because it's cheap...
> 
> Yup, we only drive Honda/Toyota/Ford/etc. because they are cheap too. Maybe if we weren't all so cheap, we'd all drive Bugatti's.
> 
> I'd say this has been over-simplified a bit too far and gone into the ridiculous realm.



Cheap and readily available.  Sounds like I struck a chord here


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## classicT (Feb 16, 2021)

jar546 said:


> Cheap and readily available.  Sounds like I struck a chord here


I am just not sure what your point is, or if you were even really trying to make one.

"We only build with wood because it's cheap" is only a half-truth. We build with wood because it is one of the most reliable materials and because it is inexpensive.


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## Mark K (Feb 16, 2021)

A building official is not allowed to like a particular type of construction but must enforce the code.


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## jar546 (Feb 16, 2021)

Mark K said:


> A building official is not allowed to like a particular type of construction but must enforce the code.



Are you aware of anyone that does that?


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## jar546 (Feb 16, 2021)

Mark K said:


> A building official is not allowed to like a particular type of construction but must enforce the code.



There are a lot of construction types and methods that I like and dislike but I only enforce the code as written, not what I like or don't like.  I can like an dislike what I want but that cannot and does not influence my very objective, code decisions.


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## jar546 (Feb 16, 2021)

classicT said:


> I am just not sure what your point is, or if you were even really trying to make one.
> 
> "We only build with wood because it's cheap" is only a half-truth. We build with wood because it is one of the most reliable materials and because it is inexpensive.



What I was doing was sharing a video that I found and taking an unrealistic position out of fun which ended up poking the bear with some people.  I don't have a point from a technical aspect, just presenting information.  The wood industry is a very active and powerful industry.  Concerning the issues with earthquakes, I don't see California building hospitals or high rises out of wood.  I am still of the opinion that wood is simply cheaper to build with due to the cost of the material and labor but comes at a cost for longevity.  You can't compare a 200 year old structure built with heavy timber to a new home built with I-Joists and 2x4 trusses for longevity purposes.  This is, of course, just my opinion.


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## Mark K (Feb 16, 2021)

California has revised the fire regulations that would allow taller and bigger CLT wood buildings 

The basic constraint on high-rises is the need to resist lateral loads such as  wind or earthquake.  All wood systems for high rises would not have the necessary strength and stiffness.  I could imagine some fairly tall buildings that used a CLT floor  system but which had a fairly conventional steel or concrete lateral systems.  This  concern is  not limited to California.

I do not see any California code  provisions that de facto prevent the use of a wood structural system for hospitals.  But given the need to poke holes in the floors and the many other supposedly non-structural considerations I believe that there would still be a preference for steel buildings.   For similar reasons I would not recommend the use of post tensioned concrete floor systems in hospitals.  This is based on experience trying to accommodate new medical equipment in an existing hospital with a PT floor system.

The point is that there  are some types of buildings that are not suitable for wood construction.


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## Rick18071 (Feb 17, 2021)

The crumbling former Trump Plaza Casino in Atlantic City is coming down on Wednesday morning. The implosion is scheduled to happen at 9 a.m. Read More: https://7ny.tv/3s5l3CR


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