# historical bldg egress again



## BSSTG (Nov 8, 2010)

Greetings all,

Well my other deal with the egress in an old bldg. is still up in the air.

However, another challenge has poppped up.

Bldg built in 1912. type 5 const. 2 stories. one exit from 2nd story. Previously the fire marshall (or somebody else) had given permission for a 2nd egress component to be exiting onto a roof of the bldg next door through a window (after the folks climbed some funky steps). Now how they were supposed to get off the roof I can't figure out.

Anyway, perspective buyers of the bldg want to use the upstairs for their real estate co. for offices and the like. Group B for sure.

What I'm not wondering as are they, can a 2nd means of egress be an elevator? Being the 2nd floor they have to come up with something. They want to put an elevator in anyway to accomodate old folks. In reading sect 1007 of the '06 IFC it states that an accessible means of egress can be an elevator if it meeets some requirements. Am I understanding this correctly or am I missing something? Dimensions of the upstairs area are roughly 130' by 30' with the existing stair approximately 80' from one end.

Thanks

Byron


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## cda (Nov 8, 2010)

How many people do they think they will have up there minus visitors ????


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## BSSTG (Nov 8, 2010)

I would give it a load of 40 based on 1004. I think that's realistic looking at what's going on. A load of 40 would actually be a bit high too IMHO.

Byron


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## AegisFPE (Nov 8, 2010)

The 2009 IBC has provisions for occupant evacuation elevators (3008), which could provide some guidance on this issue.

Evacuating to an adjacent roof may have been based on the idea that moving to a separate building would be similar to occupying the refuge area on the other side of a horizontal exit.  Granted, based on this concept looking for the means of egress from the refuge area seems appropriate - but I would say if I were an occupant during a fire event in the historic building, I would rather be stuck on the roof of the building next door than stuck in the burning building!  Some jurisdictions (and owners) may be more sensitive to relying on a neighboring property for means of egress, where it is outside the control of the subject building.


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## cda (Nov 8, 2010)

But how many does the business say they will have working?? Or how many offices are shown?


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## BSSTG (Nov 8, 2010)

Interesting thought Aegis. I have not thought about it from that perspective. That said, I could see it being more effective if all you had to do was walk out a door on the roof of the adjacent bldg and then be provided  a way off of the building of which there is none short of jumping off to the walk below. As it is now you have to climb up a contraption to get to the window and then exit to the roof. The other thing I did not mention is the actual "window exit" is only a few feet from the stairs where it should of been way at the other end of the bldg IMO.

To answer CDA. There are approximately 10 offices and 1 meeting room up there. Since it's a real estate office I would not expect to ever be overcrowed at all. As I stated above, 40 would probably be the max number of occupants including clients.

Byron


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## mtlogcabin (Nov 8, 2010)

Since you installing an elevator how about IBC 2006?

1007.4 Elevators.

In order to be considered part of an accessible means of egress, an elevator shall comply with the emergency operation and signaling device requirements of Section 2.27 of ASME A17.1. Standby power shall be provided in accordance with Sections 2702 and 3003. The elevator shall be accessed from either an area of refuge complying with Section 1007.6 or a horizontal exit.


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## brudgers (Nov 9, 2010)

BSSTG said:
			
		

> Since it's a real estate office I would not expect to ever be overcrowed at all. As I stated above, 40 would probably be the max number of occupants including clients.


Office Christmas Party.

Not that there will be any alcohol involved.


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## BSSTG (Dec 22, 2010)

This case has been resolved thank goodness. The owners have closed on the building, hired an architect and are adding a 2nd stairway from the upstairs portion as a 2nd means of egress. I wish all of these cases were resolved like this. Too many folks don't want to hire a professional design person.

Byron


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