# Smoke alarms, bedroom



## chris kennedy

If a bedroom has two doors, is a smoke alarm required outside of each door?

Thanks


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## cda

With out seeing a floor plan,

I would say yes

Depends on where the non bedroom smoke alarm could be located and header on the opening, and what is in the area between the two doors.

Glad that is clear

New or existing ????


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## mark handler

cda said:
			
		

> With out seeing a floor plan, I would say yes


I agree....


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## cda

they are cheap


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## Sifu

2009 IRC requires one outside of each individual sleeping area, without mentioning doors.  It does not require one outside of each door, just outside of the sleeping are.  BUT, NFPA 72 does mention doors, requiring they be placed within 21 feet of any door to a sleeping room.  So by that standard if the doors are more than 21' apart two detectors would be required.  Clear as mud?


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## chris kennedy

Master bedroom has a door into the living room and another into a hall. This is a remodel with a designer. He doesn't want one outside the bedroom in the living room. I have one in the hall.

Which code art addresses this?


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## cda

chris kennedy said:
			
		

> Master bedroom has a door into the living room and another into a hall. This is a remodel with a designer. He doesn't want one outside the bedroom in the living room. I have one in the hall.Which code art addresses this?


So the bedroom has two entrances ??

If yes code is not clear weather to require one at each entrance or not.

That is why you get paid the big bucks.

I normally do not require two, but i think I should

You never know which way the fire may come.


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## ICE

CO alarms too.


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## north star

*+ & +*





> " Which code art addresses this?                         "


See Section R314.3 [ `12   &  `15  IRC  ].*+ & +*


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## mark handler

NATIONAL FIRE PROTECTION ASSOCIATION

NFPA 72

11.5.1......outside of each separate dwelling unit sleeping area, within 21ft of any door to a sleeping room, the distance measured along a path of travel.

So is the outside POT to the bedrooms two entrances within 21 ft??


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## cda

north star said:
			
		

> *+ & +*See Section R314.3 [ `12   &  `15  IRC  ].
> 
> *+ & +*


R314.3 Location.

Smoke alarms shall be installed in the following locations:

1. In each sleeping room.

2. Outside each separate sleeping area in the immediate vicinity of the bedrooms.

3. On each additional story of the dwelling, including basements and habitable attics but not including crawl spaces and uninhabitable attics. In dwellings or dwelling units with split levels and without an intervening door between the adjacent levels, a smoke alarm installed on the upper level shall suffice for the adjacent lower level provided that the lower level is less than one full story below the upper level.

Does not say each door


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## cda

If you have a jack and Jill bathroom between two bedrooms,,

Do you put one in the bathroom/ which would be another entrance to the bedroom ??


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## north star

*+ $ +*



> "Do you put one in the bathroom/ which would be another entrance to the bedroom ??"


No !........Typically, the alarms are installed in the Hallways [ i.e. - the mostcommon MOE from those sleeping areas  ],  ...where the audible alarm can

be heard throughout the structure \ floor.



*+ $ +*


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## cda

north star said:
			
		

> *+ $ +*No !........Typically, the alarms are installed in the Hallways [ i.e. - the most
> 
> common MOE from those sleeping areas  ],  ...where the audible alarm can
> 
> be heard throughout the structure \ floor.
> 
> 
> 
> *+ $ +*


Ok using that

"""Master bedroom has a door into the living room and another into a hall. This is a remodel with a designer. He doesn't want one outside the bedroom in the living room. I have one in the hall.

Which code art addresses this?""

My most common moe is the living room door,

So I only need one there and not at the other door


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## rogerpa

cda said:
			
		

> Do you put one in the bathroom/ which would be another entrance to the bedroom ??


From Kidde User Guide

*2. LOCATIONS TO AVOID*

Smoke alarms should not be installed within 3 ft (.9m) of the following:

the door to a kitchen, *the door to a bathroom containing a tub or shower*,

forced air supply ducts used for heating or cooling,

ceiling or whole house ventilating fans, or other high air flow

areas.

I read this to say, not IN the bathroom either.


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## cda

rogerpa said:
			
		

> From Kidde User Guide*2. LOCATIONS TO AVOID*
> 
> Smoke alarms should not be installed within 3 ft (.9m) of the following:
> 
> the door to a kitchen, *the door to a bathroom containing a tub or shower*,
> 
> forced air supply ducts used for heating or cooling,
> 
> ceiling or whole house ventilating fans, or other high air flow
> 
> areas.
> 
> I read this to say, not IN the bathroom either.


""""AVOID"""

The problem is the section needs some rework

say you had a two story three thousand sq ft per floor house

all the bedrooms on the second floor

So code requires one smoke alarm per floor

so you put one smoke alarm on the first floor

One smoke alarm covering 3000 sq ft???    no problem there huh


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## mtlogcabin

> Master bedroom has a door into the living room and another into a hall.


Which one has a higher ceiling?

The purpose of the smoke detector is to detect smoke. It's location should be determined by where it will function the best in the event of a fire.


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## JPohling

mark handler said:
			
		

> NATIONAL FIRE PROTECTION ASSOCIATION NFPA 72
> 
> 11.5.1......outside of each separate dwelling unit sleeping area, within 21ft of any door to a sleeping room, the distance measured along a path of travel.
> 
> So is the outside POT to the bedrooms two entrances within 21 ft??


Actually from that wording I would think that you could ahve a POT that is 41 feet maximum with a single detector placed in the middle?


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## cda

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Which one has a higher ceiling?The purpose of the smoke detector is to detect smoke. It's location should be determined by where it will function the best in the event of a fire.


And if the two doors empty into two different parts of the house ??

Say one into a living room and one into the man cave??


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## cda

JPohling said:
			
		

> Actually from that wording I would think that you could ahve a POT that is 41 feet maximum with a single detector placed in the middle?


Yep ........


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## cda

chris kennedy said:
			
		

> If a bedroom has two doors, is a smoke alarm required outside of each door?Thanks


As they say since it is football season

"You make the call"


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## cda

chris kennedy said:
			
		

> If a bedroom has two doors, is a smoke alarm required outside of each door?Thanks


As they say since it is football season

"You make the call"


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## mark handler

JPohling said:
			
		

> Actually from that wording I would think that you could ahve a POT that is 41 feet maximum with a single detector placed in the middle?


There is other verbiage that requires them to be in close proximity to the bedroom door. 41 feet, IMHO is not in  close proximity.


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## cda

mark handler said:
			
		

> There is other verbiage that requires them to be in close proximity to the bedroom door. 41 feet, IMHO is not in  close proximity.


Actually 42 feet

Have not read that entire section

What he is saying

Detector   in the middle covers 21 feet on each side.

That is normally a semi narrow corridor/ hallway


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## mark handler

cda said:
			
		

> Actually 42 feetHave not read that entire section
> 
> What he is saying
> 
> Detector   in the middle covers 21 feet on each side.
> 
> That is normally a semi narrow corridor/ hallway


Still do not consider that "in close proximity." or "immediate vicinity"


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## JBI

If memory serves me correctly, smoke alarms typically have about a 30' radius, so 21' is not that far. CO alarms have a shorter range, typically about 15' I believe. The hallway alarm is to detect smoke from another part of the home in most cases.

Ha anyone else considered the man cave as  possible 'sleeping room' in the dwelling?

What's the secondary way out of it?

Will another alarm be needed there?


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## fatboy

Without seeing a floor plan, or in person, can't say for sure. If there is substantial separation, or elevation of ceiling heights, yes, two detectors.


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## Pcinspector1

IRC2012, R314.3 Location: (2) Outside each separate sleeping area in the IMMEDIATE VICINITY of the bedrooms.

Is the living room in the immediate vicinity of the bedroom'S??

I think the "man who draws" has a point!

pc1


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## BSSTG

If I had to pick one place outside of one of the doors, I would pick the door with the least distance to an exit. just sayin

BSSTG


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## north star

*& > >*



> " Has anyone else considered the man cave as  possible 'sleeping room' in the dwelling?  "


It depends !...........If The Man Cave has a designated enclosed closet, or Closets,...by the intent of the Code, I would say Yes !.........Even if the Man Cave doesn't

have designated Closets, I would still consider them to be a "guaranteed"

sleeping room \ area.........IMO, that is part of the whole Man Cave "modus

operandi".

That said though, ...I could not require additional Code requirements for an

unofficial sleeping area.........By the Letter of the Code, I would consider them

to be similar in function to a Family Room or Den.

Maybe something to consider in the next Code adoption cycle:

*Section R310.1 - Emergency escape and rescue required**:*

"Basements_, _habitable attics and every sleeping room [  or rooms

\ areas of similar intent or function  ] shall have at least one

operable emergency escape and rescue opening............Where

basements contain one or more sleeping rooms, emergency

egress and rescue openings shall be required in each sleeping

room."

To [ possibly ] include language indicating rooms \ areas that

serve & function as "sleeping rooms \ areas" [ i.e. - Bonus Rooms,

Man Caves,  etc.  ].



< < &


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## cda

north star said:
			
		

> *& > >*It depends !...........If The Man Cave has a designated enclosed closet, or Closets,
> 
> ...by the intent of the Code, I would say Yes !.........Even if the Man Cave doesn't
> 
> have designated Closets, I would still consider them to be a "guaranteed"
> 
> sleeping room \ area.........IMO, that is part of the whole Man Cave "modus
> 
> operandi".
> 
> That said though, ...I could not require additional Code requirements for an
> 
> unofficial sleeping area.........By the Letter of the Code, I would consider them
> 
> to be similar in function to a Family Room or Den.
> 
> Maybe something to consider in the next Code adoption cycle:
> 
> *Section R310.1 - Emergency escape and rescue required**:*
> 
> "Basements_, _habitable attics and every sleeping room [  or rooms
> 
> \ areas of similar intent or function  ] shall have at least one
> 
> operable emergency escape and rescue opening............Where
> 
> basements contain one or more sleeping rooms, emergency
> 
> egress and rescue openings shall be required in each sleeping
> 
> room."
> 
> To [ possibly ] include language indicating rooms \ areas that
> 
> serve & function as "sleeping rooms \ areas" [ i.e. - Bonus Rooms,
> 
> Man Caves,  etc.  ].
> 
> 
> 
> < < &


A window in my media room!!!!

Not in my kingdom ! !


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## north star

*& ~ & ~ &*





> "  A window in my media room!!!!Not in my kingdom ! ! "


Why not ?........Some are already trying to legislate & control every aspectof our lives, ...in our castles.

"Oh look honey, ...there goes another swarm of those "Eyes In the Sky" drones !

Wave at `em !



*& ~ & ~ &*


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## Rick18071

So where do you put the alarm if the bedroom is off the kitchen?


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## mark handler

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> So where do you put the alarm if the bedroom is off the kitchen?


Bedroom and kitchen,  with cm detector also in the kitchen


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## cda

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> So where do you put the alarm if the bedroom is off the kitchen?


Near the bedroom door, a little distance from the kitchen

Plus::

Installation near cooking appliances.

Smoke alarms shall not be installed in the following locations unless this would prevent placement of a smoke alarm in a location required by Section R314.3.

1. Ionization smoke alarms shall not be installed less than 20 feet (6096 mm) horizontally from a permanently installed cooking appliance.

2. Ionization smoke alarms with an alarm-silencing switch shall not be installed less than 10 feet (3048 mm) horizontally from a permanently installed cooking appliance.

3. Photoelectric smoke alarms shall not be installed less than 6 feet (1828 mm) horizontally from a permanently installed cooking appliance.


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## cda

There are so many floor plan layouts.

The code is not clear

Not crystal clear

So inspector on site needs to make the call!!


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## RFDACM02

The Life Safety Code (NFPA 101) says one detector in every bedroom, one outside in the area giving way to the bedroom(s). While you may technically cover any of the requirements with the one outside, it would appear the intent is to warn persons sleeping inside a bedroom before the smoke enters the space. I would not require smoke in any bathroom, but I do in a kitchen as is common with many efficiency apartments. Our State requires Photo-electric within 20 ft of a kitchen of bathroom. If you're stuck on it, maybe "allow" a 10 year battery unit in the second outside location?


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