# Group E daycare



## kasa (Oct 1, 2019)

2015 IBC Chp  308.6.1, “A child day are facility that provides care for more than five but not more than 100 children 2 ½ years or less of age, where rooms in which the children are cared for are located on a level of exit discharge serving such rooms and each of these child care rooms has an exit door directly to the exterior, shall be classified as Group E.”  

Question: Is “the children” in this section meaning only the children ages 2.5 & up, or all the children being provided care in the facility?  Or can the children under 2.5 be kept in the room w/ an exterior door, while the older kids are kept in rooms where there aren’t exterior doors?   Related/followup question: 2015 IBC Chp. 903.2.3 (sprinklers)... where does the exception actually apply?  The exception indicates "every classroom"... so is this including classrooms where the kids are over 2.5?  I would take this to mean that if there's allowed older kids in the back rooms (rooms w/ no exterior doors) it would need to be sprinkled?

Question: What is the meaning of “rooms…are located on a level of exit discharge”.  Does this prohibit any stairs or ramps between the care room and grade? 

No state/local amendments affecting this section.

Thanks!


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## classicT (Oct 1, 2019)

Yes, in the context of 308.6.1, the "children" are those less than 2.5yrs.

Older children do not require the same as they are thought to be mobile (those less than 2.5 are considered as not being capable of self preservation). If you sprinkle, you will sprinkle the whole building (most likely pending fire walls). Definition of level of exit discharge follows.

*EXIT DISCHARGE, LEVEL OF. *The _story _at the point at which an_ exit _terminates and an _exit discharge _begins.​Without diving all the way into this, it is going to be difficult to answer many of your questions. Each state has licensing requirements that are often much more stringent than the building code. Highly suggest that you find an architect from your local area that has familiarity with performing design of daycare facilities.


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## RLGA (Oct 1, 2019)

Only that portion of a building that cares for children 2-1/2 years or younger can be classified as Group E (provided it is for 100 children or less). If the rest of the building provides care for children over 2-1/2 years old, then that portion of the building must be classified as Group I-4.


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## RLGA (Oct 1, 2019)

Let me clarify my statement above. If the entire building cares for children of all ages and 100 or fewer of those children are 2-1/2 years old or younger, and the care rooms are on a level of exit discharge with an exit directly to the exterior, then it can be classified as Group E for all occupants. All other spaces with children over 2-1/2 years old do not require exits on the level of exit discharge or exits directly to the exterior.

If the number of children 2-1/2 years old and younger exceeds 100, or the exits are not arranged as prescribed, then it must be classified as a Group I-4.

This per the IBC _Commentary_.


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## ADAguy (Oct 1, 2019)

Exits must be accessible too.
He doesn't mention which state?


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## cda (Oct 1, 2019)

Agree with RGLA 2nd post.

My take on grade is you  walk out the door and you are at grade level, no stairs, ramps, whatever!!!

Sometimes the evac method is throw all the children in on baby bed and push the bed out the door, So you do not want any obstacles in the way.


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## kasa (Jan 13, 2020)

Hi! Checking back in w/ this question, sorry for such a delay!

The question keeps coming up in reviews for change of use.  It will be a daycare, trying to move into a former, group B space, which is not sprinkled.  They'll put the kids in the 'front' rooms, where there's a door right out to the outside, at grade.  Then all the back rooms, or upstairs rooms, they want to put the big kids.  I just want to be sure I'm reading the section right, in calling the whole thing group E.  This puts kids, albeit only big kids, in rooms w/out sprinklers or direct exterior doors.

My state makes amendments, but I've got to know what IBC intended first (plus there's no amendments in this section particularly that will change anything).  

I'm sorry for the initial question's wording... I don't know where I got the quoted "Every Classroom" part now? The code says "...where the rooms in which the children are cared for..." 

RLGA's reply above is concerning- are you saying the rest of the facility should be I4 here? This would mean you're reading the "the children" part to mean all children at the facility? Later in the sentence they say "these" rooms... I've read this to mean they're intending to specify *some* care rooms, and infer there's *other* care rooms, (like, for big kids?) that wouldn't be subject to this requirement... otherwise, why not have said "the" care rooms to be sure that all care rooms have an exit door direct to the exterior?


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## mtlogcabin (Jan 13, 2020)

Looks like you will need to sprinkler the building under the 2018 IBC if you have children on the upper floor

305.2 Group E, day care facilities.
This group includes buildings and structures or portions thereof occupied by more than five children older than 2 1/2 years of age who receive educational, supervision or personal care services for fewer than 24 hours per day.

2018 IBC
[F] 903.2.3 Group E.
An automatic sprinkler system shall be provided for Group E occupancies as follows:
1.    Throughout all Group E fire areas greater than 12,000 square feet (1115 m2) in area.
2.   * The Group E fire area is located on a floor other than a level of exit discharge serving such occupancies.*
Exception: In buildings where every classroom has not fewer than one exterior exit door at ground level, an automatic sprinkler system is not required in any area below the lowest level of exit discharge serving that area.
3.    The Group E fire area has an occupant load of 300 or more.


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## cda (Jan 13, 2020)

kasa said:


> Hi! Checking back in w/ this question, sorry for such a delay!
> 
> The question keeps coming up in reviews for change of use.  It will be a daycare, trying to move into a former, group B space, which is not sprinkled.  They'll put the kids in the 'front' rooms, where there's a door right out to the outside, at grade.  Then all the back rooms, or upstairs rooms, they want to put the big kids.  I just want to be sure I'm reading the section right, in calling the whole thing group E.  This puts kids, albeit only big kids, in rooms w/out sprinklers or direct exterior doors.
> 
> ...




“””They'll put the kids in the 'front' rooms,”””

Each room with children 2 1/2 younger is required to have a door directly to the outside.

Or sprinkle

And not weave thru reception area or another room or....   

Direct, open door walk out


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