# Accessible  Parking  Signs



## globe trekker (Mar 22, 2012)

According to the 2010 ADA Standards, ..are vertical parking signs required on

Accessible parking spaces,  ..just the pavement marking type or both?

Thanks!


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## Coug Dad (Mar 22, 2012)

Both are required.


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## globe trekker (Mar 22, 2012)

Coug Dad,

Yes, that is my interpretation also.  Thank You!


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## Examiner (Mar 22, 2012)

You cannot see the one on the ground if a car is parked over it.  ADA requires the vertical sign at a specified height above the ground.  I think it is 60-inches to the bottom of the sign.  I have not found in the ADA or ANSI A117.1 where it requires the graphic symbol one on the ground.  That maybe a local requirement.


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Mar 22, 2012)

*2010 ADASAD*

*502.6 Identification.* Parking space identification signs shall include the International Symbol of Accessibility complying with 703.7.2.1. Signs identifying van parking spaces shall contain the designation “van accessible.” Signs shall be 60 inches (1525 mm) minimum above the finish floor or ground surface measured to the bottom of the sign.

*Advisory 502.6 Identification.* The required “van accessible” designation is intended to be informative, not restrictive, in identifying those spaces that are better suited for van use. Enforcement of motor vehicle laws, including parking privileges, is a local matter.


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Mar 22, 2012)

Coug Dad said:
			
		

> Both are required.


What code section is requiring the ground surface identification?


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 22, 2012)

Papio Bldg Dept said:
			
		

> What code section is requiring the ground surface identification?


None The requirement does not exist in the ANSI or ADA reg's


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## Coug Dad (Mar 22, 2012)

502.6 Identification. Parking space identification signs shall include the International Symbol of Accessibility complying with 703.7.2.1. Signs identifying van parking spaces shall contain the designation "van accessible." Signs shall be 60 inches (1525 mm) minimum above the finish floor or ground surface measured to the bottom of the sign

Now I am not sure the ground marking is reqiured.


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## mark handler (Mar 22, 2012)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> None The requirement does not exist in the ANSI or ADA reg's


Some states that have amended the access requirements still require it; but, as stated, not specified in the IBC, A117.1 or ADAAG


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## globe trekker (Mar 22, 2012)

Much thanks to you all for this enlightening discussion and listed code

requirements & sections.


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## globe trekker (Mar 22, 2012)

How would the requirements of Section 1110.1 in the 2006 IBC be met (Accessible passenger

loading zones) if nothing is required on the pavement, ...mark the Access aisle only?  

*SECTION 1110 - SIGNAGE:*

*1110.1 Signs.*

Required accessible elements shall be identified by the International Symbol of Accessibility at the

following locations:

1. Accessible parking spaces required by :Next('./icod_ibc_2006f2_11_sec006.htm')'>Section 1106.1 except where the total number of

parking spaces provided is four or less.

2. Accessible passenger loading zones.

Accessible areas of refuge required by :Next('./icod_ibc_2006f2_10_sec007_par007.htm')'>Section 1007.6. 

4. Accessible rooms where multiple single-user toilet or bathing rooms are clustered at asingle

location.

5. Accessible entrances where not all entrances are accessible.

6. Accessible check-out aisles where not all aisles are accessible. The sign, where provided, shall

be above the check-out aisle in the same location as the check-out aisle number or type of check-out identification.

7. Unisex toilet and bathing rooms.

8. Accessible dressing, fitting and locker rooms where not all such rooms are accessible.

Also, refer to Section 502.3 - Access aisle, in the 2010 ADA Standards.


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 22, 2012)

ANSI A.117.1

502.4.4 Marking.

Access aisles shall be marked so as to discourage parking in them. Where access aisles are marked with lines, the width measurements of access aisles and adjacent parking spaces shall be made from the centerline of the markings.


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 22, 2012)

503.3 Access Aisle.

Passenger loading zones shall have an adjacent access aisle complying with Section 503.3.

 503.3.4 Marking.

Access aisles shall be marked so as to discourage parking in them.


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## mark handler (Mar 22, 2012)

trekker

In most States, The ISA is not required *in the stall*. There is a requirement to provide a sign at the "head" of the stall. And marking out the loading zone, But not *in the stall*.


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## globe trekker (Mar 22, 2012)

Thanks again Mark & mtlogcabin (and others)! I am trying to get a

correct interpretation on what is actually "required" vs. what is

typically done on Accessible parking. We have a new restaurant

being constructed and they are asking for guidance.

I also did not see any requirements for a specific type of coloring

scheme on the Access aisle. Why is the ADA blue typically used,

..to match the Federal highway ADA signs?


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Mar 22, 2012)

globe trekker said:
			
		

> How would the requirements of Section 1110.1 in the 2006 IBC be met (Accessible passengerloading zones) if nothing is required on the pavement, ...mark the Access aisle only?


Yes, we require a marking for the access aisle in loading zones and a vertical sign indicating where in each 100 linear feet the accessible zone is located (this is usually located in the landscaping across from the sidewalk or in some cases at the curb line.  In our experience, the international symbol on the pavement does little to indicate location when it is snowing, or when another vehicle is parked over it.


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## gbhammer (Mar 22, 2012)

Papio Bldg Dept said:
			
		

> What code section is requiring the ground surface identification?


Our UDO requires it. (Unified Development Ordinance)


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## globe trekker (Mar 22, 2012)

Thanks Papio!   IMO, I believe that a significant number of people (`round these

parts anyway), have become very accustomed to / mentally programmed to look

for the pavement marking, ADA blue color scheme.   Previously, we have not

required / been installing any vertical signs at each parking space.   I reckon

that more changes are a coming huh?


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Mar 22, 2012)

globe trekker said:
			
		

> I also did not see any requirements for a specific type of coloring
> 
> scheme on the Access aisle. Why is the ADA blue typically used,
> 
> ..to match the Federal highway ADA signs?


*Aisle Advisory 502.3.3 Marking.* The method and color of marking are not specified by these requirements but may be addressed by State or local laws or regulations. Because these requirements permit the van access aisle to be as wide as a parking space, it is important that the aisle be clearly marked.


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Mar 22, 2012)

globe trekker said:
			
		

> Previously, we have notrequired / been installing any vertical signs at each parking space.   I reckon
> 
> that more changes are a coming huh?


Are Police Department will not ticket vehicles if the parking stall is not properly marked for accessible parking.


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## globe trekker (Mar 22, 2012)

"Was there" a requirement for the pretty ADA blue color scheme from somewhere?

Your "properly marked" would be the vertical signage AND the Access aisle only,

but not the outside edges of the parking space itself?


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Mar 22, 2012)

"Our" instead of "Are."  Might need to go home early today.


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Mar 22, 2012)

globe trekker said:
			
		

> "Was there" a requirement for the pretty ADA blue color scheme from somewhere?


Our Design Standards specify a contrasting color.  While white works well on blacktop, it does not work so well on concrete, where yellow and blue are common colors used.


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## globe trekker (Mar 22, 2012)

You are not authorized to go home early, ..regardless of mental condition.    

Thank you for the input & banter!


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## mark handler (Mar 22, 2012)

globe trekker said:
			
		

> "Was there" a requirement for the pretty ADA blue color scheme from somewhere?Your "properly marked" would be the vertical signage AND the Access aisle only,
> 
> but not the outside edges of the parking space itself?


2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design

Advisory 502.3.3 Marking. The method and color of marking are not specified by these requirements but may be addressed by State or local laws or regulations.


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## gbhammer (Mar 22, 2012)

Papio Bldg Dept said:
			
		

> "Our" instead of "Are."  Might need to go home early today.


Lets write each other a doc excuse.


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Mar 22, 2012)

Dear SOB,

I am GBHammer's doctor familiaris.  GBhammer has contracted conjunctivitis of the code eye.  I am hereby prescribing he take the remainder of the day to recover fully from his ailment and in order to protect his co-workers from contagion.

Thank You,

Dr. Papio


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## Big Mac (Mar 22, 2012)

I wanta go


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## mark handler (Mar 22, 2012)

papio bldg dept said:
			
		

> dear sob,... Remainder of the day ...


week  ...?


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## globe trekker (Mar 22, 2012)

This is Dr. (Feelgood) Papio!


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## gbhammer (Mar 22, 2012)

Big Mac said:
			
		

> I wanta go


You can just tell the SOB that you conjunk something something code something.


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## gbhammer (Mar 22, 2012)

mark handler said:
			
		

> week  ...?


already have tomorrow off for Illinois State Dart tournament. The rest of the day will do.


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## Examiner (Mar 22, 2012)

Vertical parking signs for accessible stalls has been required for many years.


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## gbhammer (Mar 22, 2012)

Papio Bldg Dept said:
			
		

> Dear SOB,I am GBHammer's doctor familiaris.  GBhammer has contracted conjunctivitis of the code eye.  I am hereby prescribing he take the remainder of the day to recover fully from his ailment and in order to protect his co-workers from contagion.
> 
> Thank You,
> 
> Dr. Papio


Dear SOB,

I am Dr. Hammer Headshrinker extraordinaire.  Your employee has through his own admission had a mental lapse.  I am hereby prescribing he take the remainder of the day to recover fully from his mental incontinence and in order to protect his co-workers from any possible embarrassment.

Thank You,

Dr. Hammer


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## globe trekker (Mar 23, 2012)

From the 2003 ANSI  A117.1 - *502.3 Vehicle Space Marking.*

Car and van parking spaces shall be marked to define the width.   Where parking spaces

are marked with lines, the width measurements of parking spaces and adjacent access

aisles shall be made from the centerline of the markings.

*EXCEPTION: *Where parking spaces or access aisles are not adjacent to another parking

space or access aisle, measurements shall be permitted to include the full width of the

line defining the parking space or access aisle.


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## mark handler (Mar 23, 2012)

globe trekker said:
			
		

> From the 2003 ANSI  A117.1 - *502.3 Vehicle Space Marking.*Car and van parking spaces shall be marked to define the width.   Where parking spaces
> 
> are marked with lines, the width measurements of parking spaces and adjacent access
> 
> ...


Still does not require the ISA marking or the "blue" stripping... They just make it easier to see for the blind drivers....


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## Francis Vineyard (Mar 23, 2012)

Papio Bldg Dept said:
			
		

> Are Police Department will not ticket vehicles if the parking stall is not properly marked for accessible parking.


Even with the Accessible Parking signage a vehicle cannot be fined or towed unless such warning is posted in plain sight.


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## mark handler (Mar 23, 2012)

francis vineyard said:
			
		

> even with the accessible parking signage a vehicle cannot be fined or towed unless such warning is posted in plain sight.


That is what the signs are for


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## globe trekker (Mar 23, 2012)

Thanks Mark for the input!

Section 502.3, in the ANSI A117.1 would require a defined space to be legibly

marked though! ( i.e - they would have to define / mark the spaces , with

lines or a solid rectangular marking, ..yes? ).

Some type of markings, presumably similar in nature, to the nationally

recognized color of blue, would be "required" <--- ?? on the parking space

sides...


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 23, 2012)

Francis Vineyard said:
			
		

> Even with the Accessible Parking signage a vehicle cannot be fined or towed unless such warning is posted in plain sight.


About a year ago the courts ruled the statue number and the amount of the fine had to be posted on the HC sign in order to enforce the penalties. We been placing stickers on the HC signs ever since.


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## GBrackins (Mar 23, 2012)

gotta love the justice system ... never seen the statue on a speed limit sign, wonder if I can use that arguement


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## mark handler (Mar 23, 2012)

The method and color of marking are not specified by these requirements but may be addressed by State or local laws or regulations.



			
				globe trekker said:
			
		

> Thanks Mark for the input!Section 502.3, in the ANSI A117.1 would require a defined space to be legibly
> 
> marked though! ( i.e - they would have to define / mark the spaces , with
> 
> ...


 The method and color of marking may be addressed by State or local laws or regulations.


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Mar 23, 2012)

globe trekker said:
			
		

> Thanks Mark for the input!Section 502.3, in the ANSI A117.1 would require a defined space to be legibly
> 
> marked though! ( i.e - they would have to define / mark the spaces , with
> 
> ...


pavement markings are only required to designate the width of the parking stall and differentiate the access aisle from adjacent parking stalls...Identification of the parking stalls occurs in 502.7, and are met by a vertical sign provision/requirement in compliance with 703.6.1 for Symbols. Colors are not specified in the ANSI beyond glare finish and contrasting the symbol with the background (light/dark), and are typically left to the discretion of the AHJ if specified at all.


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## mark handler (Mar 23, 2012)

The method and color of marking are not specified by these requirements but may be addressed by State or local laws or regulations.


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## globe trekker (Mar 23, 2012)

To all;

Please forgive my continuing to "flog this severely beaten horse", but I want to

understand clearly the parking space marking requirements.

Does Section 502.3, in the 2003 ANSI A117.1, "require" that both sides of an

Accessible parking space be marked / painted (i.e. - if the parking space is

striped, are both sides required to be painted / striped or only one side next

to the Access aisle?) The language in Section 502.3 states that the "space

shall be marked to define width".. how is this accomplished?

Thanks for ya'lls patience & indulgence.


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Mar 23, 2012)

An access aisle is only required on one side of a parking stall.  the parking stall may be striped in the same manner as non-accessible stalls, however the designated area for the access aisle shall be clearly demarcated to discourage/prevent parking (i.e., the typical hatch pattern).

Fridays are as good a day for flogging as any.  Speaking of which I need to track down some Molly.


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## mark handler (Mar 23, 2012)

globe trekker said:
			
		

> To all;Please forgive my continuing to "flog this severely beaten horse", but I want to
> 
> understand clearly the parking space marking requirements.
> 
> Does Section 502.3, in the 2003 ANSI A117.1, "require" that both sides of an Accessible parking space be marked / painted (i.e. - if the parking space is striped, are both sides required to be painted / striped or only one side next to the Access aisle?) The language in Section 502.3 states that the "space shall be marked to define width".. how is this accomplished?Thanks for ya'lls patience & indulgence.





> ANSI A117 502.3 Vehicle Space Marking. Car and van parking spaces shall be marked to define the width. Where parking spaces are marked with lines, the width measurements of parking spaces and adjacent access aisles shall be made from the centerline of the markings. EXCEPTION: Where parking spaces or access aisles are not adjacent to another parking space or access aisle, measurements shall be permitted to include the full width of the line defining the parking space or access aisle.


*WHERE* parking spaces are marked with lines...

So no those that follow ANSI A117, "both sides" are not required to be painted.... But something must define the space, could be a planter.....


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 23, 2012)

GBrackins said:
			
		

> gotta love the justice system ... never seen the statue on a speed limit sign, wonder if I can use that arguement


Did some checking into why and it was because the parking is on private property.


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