# ISO Rating???



## jpranch (Jan 29, 2010)

We just went through our first ISO rating. We scored a 4. I'm thinking thats not too bad for a small town building dept with only 10 employees? What do you think?

2nd question. What has been the impact in your jurisdiction by doing an ISO audit in real dollars??? As always thanks for the help. jp


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## cboboggs (Jan 29, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

I have yet to hear of or see any real benefit.


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## texas transplant (Jan 29, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

Took time I didn't want to give.   Got a 3 in a city of 22000 with 3 employees and that rating and a dollar in my pocket will get me a cup of coffee almost anywhere in town.    

No direct benefit to me or that city.


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## brudgers (Jan 29, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

ISO ratings can matter for economic development when you are trying to attract industry.


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## mn joe (Jan 29, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

I think to score higher than 4 you need a registered engineer on staff for plan reviews.It sounds like you did well.We've been through it twice,and it helps if the ISO field rep that you get knows her/his stuff.The gal I worked with in '08 was really good.

By the way, I'm driving the halflinger team at a neighborhood party on Saturday.Predicted temps are single digit or low teens.I'll need a hot toddy when I finish.

Oh yeah, the financial impact of the rating depends on the private insurers. Some use the rating to partially determine an owner's rate. See if you can get a scale showing the possible scores.I think it is a 1-10 scale If you have a cooperative local reporter you could get some good pr.You should also let your council know you scored well and what you need( more staff,more education,etc) to score higher.

Joe


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## Coug Dad (Jan 29, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

The scale is 1 to 10 with 10 having no water.  The ISO rating is used to set fire insurance rates.  It is not a big impact to the average homeowner since the bigger part of the insurance policy is for liability, hail, theft and other coverages.  Fire is a very small part.  It could make a difference to a large commercial complex on a pure dollar basis, but pretty small as a percentage.  Politicians love to use it though as an indication of their effectivness of governing.


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## Min&Max (Jan 29, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

ISO assigns a rating from 1-10 based on their evaluation of your department. The myth is that the better you score the lower the fire insurance and homeowners insurance costs are. What you are not told unless you ask is how the cost savings are actually acheived.

First of all, the rating you get is only good for those structures constructed in the time period that your rating is valid for. Typically they evaluate every 3 years or so. Just as you are feeling all warm and fuzzy about the 4 rating you achieved as compared to the neighboring communities 6 rating, you find out they group ratings for insurance premium purposes. 1-3 is Group 1, 4-6 is Group 2, 7-9 is Group 3 and Group 4 is a 10.  Yeah, pretty much a joke.

Maybe things have changed, but thats the way it was explained to me 3 years ago.


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## peach (Jan 29, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

The Fire ISO rating may mean something to insurance premiums and benefit to the community.

The building department ISO doesn't mean anything.. oh let me rephrase that in a kindler, gentler way...

the Building Department ISO has yet to yield meaningful data to effect insurance premiums in a community.

Remember that the ISO rating is an insurance industry "product"..

4 is pretty good for the first time out of the box!

PS the payback for the time involved preparing for the audit is a negative number...


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## fatboy (Jan 29, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

I will let my friend peach's comments stand, and I completely agree. In addition, pretty much a bunch of BS for for a building department.

I won't go through the process again, I invested a sh!tload of time in it the second go-round for our department, the first for me. When I asked questions regarding the results, mostly in terms of staffing, I was totally blown off. I'll stand on what I have.

BTW, one of the biggest factors, is having adopted the MOST current code cycle. For those who have decided to bail on the 2009 R2904, I imagine that will have a HUGE impact.


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## jpranch (Jan 29, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

Ok, Based on the posts I have to ask one more question: Do I have SUCKER written all over my forehead???  :evil:


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## D a v e W (Jan 29, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

Might feel better if you use "Sugar Daddy"  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


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## jpranch (Jan 29, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

Thanks Dave. I needed to laugh at myself a bit.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


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## cda (Jan 29, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

we got class 1 last year, and did using a consulating firm. I am not familar with much of the process, but thought it was more weighted on what the fire dept did, such as big fire trucks, correct equipment, water flow.

suggest for anyone is to hire a consultaing firm that have ex iso people employed


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## incognito (Jan 30, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

Why on earth would you waste money on a consulting firm when the return for even the highest rating---a 1---produces virtually zero return for your jurisdiction?


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## Uncle Bob (Jan 30, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

Some replies indicate that this is "optional".  If the city administrator (mayor, city manager, etc.) says "Fill out ISO questionaire"; you fill out the questionaire; don't you?

An example of an ISO questionaire?

http://www.isrb.com/Pubs/bcegsq.pdf

As a practical exercise; it could give you a picture of your department, how you are doing, and how it can be improved.

You also might submit the ISO results to the governing body to ask for more money for training, seminars/conferences (paid vacations), certifications, and technical improvements (computer software, cell phones, etc.).

Make lemonade.   

Uncle Bob


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## jpranch (Jan 30, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

UB, I still feel a little stupid about this whole thing. Been in this business for 24+ years and this was the first time I did all the ISO legwork by myself. I must be a late bloomer and surly not the sharpest tool in the shed? With that said, the ISO picthes their product like a used car salesman selling a lemon. They tout the great savings that your citizens will receive. Some would call that lying?

Ok, so I'm past the feeling like a sucker (Sugar Daddy, Dave!) stage and now I'm at the P.O.ed stage. I'll do my best to make lemonaide but it could end up being vinegar?


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## Uncle Bob (Jan 30, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

JP,

You might ask the city clerk for a copy of the last several ISO reports from your department.  This may give you some guidance.

Also, here a website that explains ISO's and how they are applied.  You never know; a few points from your department might just be what your community needs.

http://www.isogov.com/services/infrastr ... tions.html

On this page; scroll down to the bottom and click on learn more.

Click on the box by "Building Code Effectiveness Grading Schedule (BCEGS™) "; and fill out the required information below.

Hit the "SEND" button; and in a few days you should receive the manual by e-mail.

Hope this helps,

Uncle Bob


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## jim baird (Jan 30, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

peach said, "...The building department ISO doesn't mean anything.. oh let me rephrase that in a kindler, gentler way...

the Building Department ISO has yet to yield meaningful data to effect insurance premiums in a community.

Remember that the ISO rating is an insurance industry 'product'..."

I agree completamente.

I finally shook them off this year.  As a part-time one man band I knew, after having done it at another AHJ that employed approx five and got a 9 score, that I had no more than a snowball's chance of rolling any less distance down the hill.

I realized, after spending many minutes of complex discussion by phone with their rep, that his only motive was to log us on as participants and thereby further legitimize ISO's domain, as in the reach of tentacles on the part of certain monsters?

ISO preys on smaller jursidictions with the offer of carrots, while administering mostly stick!


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## jpranch (Jan 30, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

ISO vs ICC... Insurance (not) Service (money) Office (orfice) vs international cash cow? Is that what I'm hearing??? Wish I could come up with a better ISO decription for the acronem. (ya, I can't spell) The further I get into this the more I get ticked off. How in the hell am I going to explain this to the mayor and city council??? ISO came in and I bought into this stuff and sold the same bull to the city. And now have to tell them it's all BS??? It sucks to be me right now. HELP!!!

Wonder if I can find a job in Texas???


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## jim baird (Jan 30, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

Don't worry bro.

If I can use a sports metaphor, ISO is like a national sports program evaluator that treats all "jurisdictions" as playing on a level field, and awards higher scores to those who show "effectiveness".  Sort of like the way they assign the football championships, with heavy weighting given to the bigger, better funded programs that have public relations departments etc.  They claim to be "objective", but the rational observer sees that the rating system ignores inequalities.  If the Crimson Tide of Alabama gets rated 9.5, what rating would be asigned the Madison County Red Raiders (who serve a population of 25,000 and have a student population of 1200).  Both teams use the same football rulebook, so their "effectiveness" can be assessed rationally?  Right? Hmmmm.


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## pyrguy (Jan 30, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

Don't worry jp.

When ISO first came on the scene we fell for the 'sweet talk' too.

The AHJ I was working for did MORE than they required for a "1".

We got a "10" without a review because we did not have an architect or PE on staff. Never mind that we had several local guys we could, and did, call on if we needed help.

The next time ISO came calling the BO asked them to do something physically impossible while taking a trip to a warmer location.  :mrgreen:  :mrgreen:  :mrgreen:


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## jpranch (Jan 30, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

jim, so are you saying He who has the most bull shirt wins?


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## jpranch (Jan 30, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

Post Script: I'm still wating for what "ISO" means? Be creative...

pyrguy, thanks.


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## fatboy (Jan 31, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

UB said;

"Some replies indicate that this is "optional". If the city administrator (mayor, city manager, etc.) says "Fill out ISO questionaire"; you fill out the questionaire; don't you?"

Not until I explained to them what a huge waste of time it was the first two ro-rounds, if they insist..it won't be at the level of concern I had before.

"As a practical exercise; it could give you a picture of your department, how you are doing, and how it can be improved."

Not really, they are TELLING you what you should be doing, not excepting how you are doing it, and what has worked for you.

"You also might submit the ISO results to the governing body to ask for more money for training, seminars/conferences (paid vacations), certifications, and technical improvements (computer software, cell phones, etc.)."

Yeah, that was one of their lines also........aaaa, when you have a zero budget for those types of things, an outside evaluation isn't going to make much difference.

I appreciate your opinion UB, I'm just not going to buy into the process. Unless I HAVE to.

JP.....ISO = Investigative Silly Operation    :mrgreen:


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## FM William Burns (Jan 31, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

JP,

Possibly........Illusionists Subjectivity Operations


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## RJJ (Jan 31, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

JP: Hope you didn't spend any more time then an hour with the ISO ( Intellectual Snake Oil) people!

They aren't worth more then that!


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## JBI (Feb 1, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

jp - Don't feel like too much of a schnook... How do you think New York State ended up in ICC-land? They got sold the same bill of goods you're now questioning. I have yet to see or hear of any jurisdiction that has seen any real benefit of participation.


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## Mule (Feb 1, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

jp, I recently went through my first one also. I was in the same boat as you.....thinking WOW! We're really doing something good here for the community. We scored a 3 also, which I here is pretty darn good!

So don't feel so bad brother..........I'm right there with ya!!      :evil:


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## jpranch (Feb 1, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

Thanks to all! This has been a good thread for me.


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## Alias (Feb 1, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

jp -

I've done two and wouldn't have bothered but was told to do them.  Took the city from a 9 to a 6.  Whoopee......... :lol:   Unless told, I'll be skipping this one next time around.  I am a one person, 3/4 time show and there is no way for me to compete with larger jurisdictions.

Sue, lost on the frontier.....................


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## jpranch (Feb 1, 2010)

Re: ISO Rating???

For those that have served... This really smells like a "dog & pony show".  :lol:


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