# Fence



## Keystone (Nov 24, 2013)

Who requires building permit for 8' fence?


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## ICE (Nov 24, 2013)

Just about everybody for a fence over 6' high.  The same 6' applies to partition walls inside a building.


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## Keystone (Nov 24, 2013)

I should've given additional information,

1. 8' fence in Pennsylvania, Pa. UCC building permit?

2. Do you consider a fence structural or non structural?

3. Do you require windload certification, area is clearly 90mph zone?

4. Any concern with wind load cert for 110mph dated over 10years ago for the product that will currently be installed - no changes?

5. Finally, post depth per area frost depth at 3' depth, any concerns?


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## RJJ (Nov 24, 2013)

Fence 6' or above needs a permit.

Fence is a structure in PA in regards to the MPC

yes if it is stockade type

Maybe

The 3' depth may need increase do to wind up lift


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## Pcinspector1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Fences up to 7ft are now exempt from permit in the 2012IRC. Check with zoning, may only allow 6ft high fence?

pc1


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## rktect 1 (Nov 25, 2013)

You can not build any fence without a permit where I am working. And a residence can not have more than 6 feet in height without a variance.  Very very few residential fences over 6 feet.  And only a handful of commercial ones.


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## Kearney.200 (Nov 25, 2013)

6 foot is as tall as a residential may be here all commercial fences have to go to P&Z


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## Frank (Nov 25, 2013)

In VA 6 ft and over requires permit, posts and ornaments may be higher


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## tmurray (Nov 25, 2013)

rktect 1 said:
			
		

> You can not build any fence without a permit where I am working. And a residence can not have more than 6 feet in height without a variance.  Very very few residential fences over 6 feet.  And only a handful of commercial ones.


Same here.


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## kyhowey (Nov 25, 2013)

So, if you require a permit for a fence, what do you inspect?  Just curious.


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## steveray (Nov 25, 2013)

If they call....I have to tell them they need a permit over 6'......I imagine we would need at least generic engineering from the manufacturer, just like a retaining wall....based on wind loading more than soil conditions....


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## Keystone (Nov 25, 2013)

kyhowey - that has always been a pet peeve of mine, many fence permits issued but no inspection. Atleast no inspection when it is a zoning only permit as has been or thought to have been.


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## righter101 (Nov 25, 2013)

Western Washington here, very rural.  2012 IRC allows 7' w/o permit.  We have ammended Chapter 1 to 8 feet without permit.  Low wind zone here, very rural so no zoning issues.  We have a ton of deer and 6' doesn't really always keep them out.  Council hasn't adopted the 8' exemption yet but I wrote a policy to allow for it.


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## ICE (Nov 26, 2013)

We used to have handouts for fences and retaining walls that were engineered.  They could get pretty big.  And if that didn't work, I had a Caltrans book of drawings.  Want to build a bridge.....no problem.....flip to page 363.

Then it was determined that we didn't know what we were doing and all the handouts disappeared.  I remember that lots of engineers were born that year.


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## kyhowey (Nov 26, 2013)

I can understand a zoning permit.  It's amazing how many people don't know where their own property line is located.  We have city ordinances that don't allow fences in front yards, other than decorative.  If you're on one of those large "corner" lots, guess what, you can't use but a quarter of your yard for anything because you have two front yards.  I just can't imagine the crap I would get if I asked for engineering calcs for wind loads on fences.


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## Francis Vineyard (Nov 26, 2013)

Sidetracking this thread further a proposal I could support;

Exemptions from application for permit

5. Fences of any height unless required for pedestrian safety as provided for by Section 3306, or used for the barrier for a swimming pool.


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## tmurray (Nov 26, 2013)

kyhowey said:
			
		

> So, if you require a permit for a fence, what do you inspect?  Just curious.


Setbacks. Fences aren't governed by the building code here, so there are no requirements.


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## jar546 (Nov 26, 2013)

Keystone said:
			
		

> I should've given additional information, 1. 8' fence in Pennsylvania, Pa. UCC building permit?
> 
> 2. Do you consider a fence structural or non structural?
> 
> ...


1) The PA-UCC is very clear on this.  YES it requires a permit per state law

2) That which is built or constructed is a structure.  Read the definitions.

3) Yes, it is not prescriptive, engineer/architect stamp showing it meets the wind load for your area (90mph)

4) No, data is data and it exceeds the 90

5) Frost depth not the issue unless it is attached to the house.  Depth is based on wind load requirements.


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## Keystone (Nov 27, 2013)

jar546 - its a hard fight even with the clear print of the UCC, frankly I wanted to see if I was one of a few lone wolves on this issue. Its amazing how many BCO's running the show as long time zoning officials haven't a clue or don't want to by claiming ignorance.

The questions I ask are some of the questions most frequently asked from officials that are making attempt to understand.


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## jar546 (Nov 27, 2013)

I decided a few months ago that I am tired of fighting in PA.  I just follow the law and do what I am suppose to no matter who does or does not like it.  As a result, i have lost about 3 municipalities but I don't give a **** because I know I am doing what is right and everyone else can go F987K themselves for being so backwards and pathetic.


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## RJJ (Nov 27, 2013)

Keystone you are not alone. The PA UCC is a cluster well you get my point!


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## rshuey (Nov 27, 2013)

RJJ said:
			
		

> Keystone you are not alone. The PA UCC is a cluster well you get my point!


No kidding. Uniform, my @$$


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## JBI (Dec 3, 2013)

jar546, you're sounding a tad bit jaded... but I know the areas you work in so.... GBOT,

Wind load yes, but not so much for 'uplift' as for the lateral load. Stockade fences don't let much wind through, and the taller they get, the harder the push.

Were I still performing inspections I would first inspect the site before issuing the permit (it's a NYS thing), then the depth and diameter of the post holes as well as any footings that are being used, and a final before issuing a CofC.

But that's just me...


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