# MOLD



## Pcinspector1 (Jan 21, 2010)

MOLD

Does your building department get the MOLD call. "I've got mold on my sheet rock in the basement and the landlord will not take care of it!

I thought the County health department handled it as an enviromental issue but they don't, they direct the call to the building department. "I think it's MOLD" is used by the renter to get out of paying rent in some cases! In other cases I would like to help but I don't have the PHD in mold science. Do you refer them to the yellow pages for the MOLD expert? :mrgreen:  :mrgreen:

Should I make an inspection to see where it's coming from?

Does your building dept. make an inspection?

I'am to MOLD for this!


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## vegas paul (Jan 21, 2010)

Re: MOLD

I'm not sure how it could be considered part of the building department's area of concern, unless they are altering/expanding/modifying some part of the home.  What I mean is, we only do inspections when a permit is issued.

This is a slippery slope.  Would you also respond to a call from an older home where a beam is sagging/deflecting?  How about a deteriorating foundation?  Broken window?  If there is any kind of neighborhood services department that might deal with these kind of issues, perhaps they are the proper responders.


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## cboboggs (Jan 21, 2010)

Re: MOLD

We do get those calls. And you are correct, normally it is a tenant trying to break a lease. We get the call because we are also the code enforcement department. I usually refer them to the County health department or the yellow pages, we do not have the ordinances in place or the expertise to determine what the mold may be.


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## texasbo (Jan 21, 2010)

Re: MOLD

Agree with all of the above. County Health doesn't really even have much involvement. There are some local experts that can go assess the issue. Per our County health Dept., much of the mold is completely harmless to health.


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## Min&Max (Jan 21, 2010)

Re: MOLD

Caller: I have mold in my house and I think its making me sick.

Me: I'm sorry I can't help you with a mold issue. I have not been trained to identify the strains of mold that present a health concern to people. You might want to try the State Department of Health.


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## fatboy (Jan 21, 2010)

Re: MOLD

We get them all the time, my reply is similar to m & m's except I direct to the yellow pages for a private industrial hygienist.


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## JBI (Jan 21, 2010)

Re: MOLD

IF your office deals with _property maintenance_ issues (apparently what is referred to as 'Code Enforcement' in much of the country...), then it is handled for what it is in the code, that would be a moisture/water infiltration issue - be it a leak in a pipe, sweat inside the wall that shouldn't be there if the home is constructed properly, or ground/storm water infiltration.

Properly constructed homes and buildings don't have _moisture problems_ that result in the _symptom of active mold growth_.

Mold is not the problem, it is a symptom of a moisture problem.

Didn't we cover this a few months ago?


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## GREEN (Jan 21, 2010)

Re: MOLD

We have a minimum livability code and mold falls under the "health" clause. We require the tenant to supply results from a testing report and documentation from their physician that the mold is causing health problems before we take action.


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## Pcinspector1 (Jan 22, 2010)

Re: MOLD

JD, sez:



> Didn't we cover this a few months ago?


I clicked the seach button and typed in MOLD, did'nt see anything on MOLD, Sorry, please send me to the correct thread or board!

The issue was on an older home which has a rock foundation, not that easy to keep water from entering the building. Building was built before I was born, can't be held accountable for that can I.

Just inquiring how others handle the MOLD issues.

Thanks for the comments!


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## JBI (Jan 22, 2010)

Re: MOLD

Pc - I think you're right about it being on the old board.


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## Alias (Jan 22, 2010)

Re: MOLD

As I 'do it all', including code enforcement, I have had several complaints about mold.  And has been stated, most of the folks I get don't want to pay their rent or are looking for a lawsuit.  I send the complaintant over to the Enviromental Health Dept. to talk to them.  The health officer then informs them if it is in the shower/wet location, mix up a solution of bleach and water and wipe it down.  If that doesn't work, come in and file a written complaint.  This actually stops most folks before they get too excited.

Sue, lost on the frontier


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## Daddy-0- (Jan 24, 2010)

Re: MOLD

The building code does not address mold anywhere. When we get mold cases we will inspect to try and find the cause of the mold. We use the Property Maintenance code to help enforce the cause.

Unless you have a local ordinance for mold, you can only enforce the cause of mold. (leaky roof or pipe, etc)

I love the mold cases almost as much as the roach cases.  :roll:


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## brudgers (Jan 24, 2010)

Re: MOLD



			
				GREEN said:
			
		

> We have a minimum livability code and mold falls under the "health" clause. We require the tenant to supply results from a testing report and documentation from their physician that the mold is causing health problems before we take action.


Just be aware that requiring health documentation may be a violation of HIPAA.  I recommend speaking with *a member of the bar *who typically represents your jurisdiction.

Documenting the presence of a hazardous condition should be enough anyway.


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## FredK (Jan 25, 2010)

Re: MOLD

County Helth Dept is who we refer calls to.


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## Pcinspector1 (Jan 25, 2010)

Re: MOLD

Daddy -O,

I 'am thinking your way is the way to handle it,

Thanks


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## jim baird (Jan 25, 2010)

Re: MOLD

Every such complaint I have answered has involved overdue rents.

I will visit if there is a stated safety concern, but it is usually aggravated by payments due.

As above, referral to Health Dept is usually far as I can go.

One complainant put on an impressive display of repetitive coughing.


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## Mule (Jan 25, 2010)

Re: MOLD

We get these calls all of the time. I used to go out if the female caller sounded "good"...Notice I said used to!! The last time I went out the person that sounded good was about 5' tall, 300 lbs, had on a nasty looking T-shirt with stains all over it...no bra.....very few teeth!!

I now refer them to different web sites. I'm not taking that chance any more!!


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## Uncle Bob (Jan 25, 2010)

Re: MOLD

PC,

The scariest thing about mold and new home construction is;

"It's not my problem!"

Mold is a growing health problem; especially in new homes;

http://toxic.mold-help.org/viewforum.ph ... 275b138079

Here is more;

http://mold-help.org/content/view/488/

Here is some information on Mold.  Scroll down to the bottom to see companies and agencies that have more information on mold;

http://www.hadd.com/sickhomes

Here is another website that has more links to information about mold and mold investigation.

(scroll down and read center articles)

http://www.hobb.org/content/view/9/65/

Hope this helps,

Uncle Bob


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## FyrBldgGuy (Jan 26, 2010)

Re: MOLD

Once worked in Wisconsin, a reporter asked me how we (code officials) were going to eliminate mold?!

I then asked her if she thought it was a good idea to eliminate mold in the Cheese State.

She laughed and that was the end of the interview.

Mold spores are everywhere.  If water infiltration due to pipes, leaky foundations, leaky roofs are the cause of the problem then it might be building related.  If the mold is due to high humidity, then the home owner may have to take steps to dehumidify then home.

I have never found a home that sooner or later did not have mildew, mold, etc. at some point in time.

Right now I live in a mostly dry climate and keeping mildew from growing in the shower is very difficult.

Chlorinated swimming pools can get black mildew.  Mildew and mold exist and we will never be able to get rid of the problem.  With new construction, sheet rock, building wrap, low-e windows the problem of indoor air pollution just increased.

So if you want to solve the mold issue or create an opportunity to become special expert who can testify in court it is a growth (mold colonies) industry.

Or recommed Mr. Clean.  He has been around since before our mothers were mothers.


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## peach (Jan 28, 2010)

Re: MOLD

it's a little like the Chinese Drywall...

Since, at some point liability may attach to the building department, for should having doing a drywall inspection on a product that hadn't been a problem.. I'd gently guide them away since.. well the apartment above flooded their bathtub 3 months ago, and I'm just noticing it now... which might make sense..

most of us aren't trained to know "toxic" black mold from "regular" black mold.  Not all are toxic.


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## bona fide (Feb 17, 2010)

Re: MOLD

Refer them to the EPA


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## peesncues (Feb 18, 2010)

Re: MOLD

Side note,

Brudgers wrote:

"Just be aware that requiring health documentation may be a violation of HIPAA. I recommend speaking with a member of the bar who typically represents your jurisdiction."

Unless you are a health care provider or a health insurance provider, you can't violate HIPAA. Requesting (or requiring) health information doesn't violate HIPAA. Any health care or insurance provider who knows how to comply with HIPAA would simply refuse to accomodate any request for health care information. If they provide that information then they have violated HIPAA regulations, but you haven't.

Also, any individual who volunteers their own health information is not violating HIPAA.

(Just some interesting FYI)


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## bona fide (Feb 23, 2010)

Re: MOLD

Question   Are there Federal regulations or standards regarding mold?

  Answer

  Standards or Threshold Limit Values (TLVs) for airborne concentrations of mold, or mold spores, have not been set. Currently, there are no EPA regulations or standards for airborne mold contaminants.

For more information on mold, see our website at www.epa.gov/mold

Read the publication, "A Brief Guide to Mold, Moisture, and Your Home" at www.epa.gov/mold/moldguide.html [EPA 402-K-02-003]

i refer calls to EPA


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## Anders (Mar 10, 2010)

Re: MOLD

mold is a nasty thing.


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## Joe.B (Feb 4, 2021)

I know this is an old thread, but I'm reviving it because my department (which is just me right now) is also tasked with code enforcement and we get a lot of mold calls. The Public Health Department refers people to us. Like others have said, I'm not a trained mold expert and I don't know how to identify a toxic mold vs. a benign mold. Our city council has tasked us with creating a Rental Inspection program so I'm looking into ways to address this better. Does anyone know of training or certification available to address this? Like others said, I can help identify where the moisture is coming from, and we have adopted the IPMC which we can use to help enforce this. I would like to present to the city some training or certification program that would qualify myself, or someone at the city, to help address real concerns. Any input is greatly appreciated.


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## cda (Feb 4, 2021)

Joe.B said:


> I know this is an old thread, but I'm reviving it because my department (which is just me right now) is also tasked with code enforcement and we get a lot of mold calls. The Public Health Department refers people to us. Like others have said, I'm not a trained mold expert and I don't know how to identify a toxic mold vs. a benign mold. Our city council has tasked us with creating a Rental Inspection program so I'm looking into ways to address this better. Does anyone know of training or certification available to address this? Like others said, I can help identify where the moisture is coming from, and we have adopted the IPMC which we can use to help enforce this. I would like to present to the city some training or certification program that would qualify myself, or someone at the city, to help address real concerns. Any input is greatly appreciated.



I don’t think you want that. For 1000’s if reasons 

Just add wording to an ordinance stating you can require business/ owner to hire third party inspector and they furnish you a copy of the report,

Maybe also add you can require the place to be vacated, till issue resolved.


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## Joe.B (Feb 5, 2021)

cda said:


> I don’t think you want that. For 1000’s if reasons
> 
> Just add wording to an ordinance stating you can require business/ owner to hire third party inspector and they furnish you a copy of the report,
> 
> Maybe also add you can require the place to be vacated, till issue resolved.


I hear you and appreciate the feedback. So if I understand you correctly enforcement would go something like this: "I'm sorry I can't post an unsafe to occupy notice because I'm not trained to identify mold but if you can provide evidence of toxic mold we will post an unsafe notice." Tennant then hires a third party to sample the mold, get it identified, then present a report stating the the toxic was identified at said address. Once we validate the report then we post the notice and begin the enforcement process? That sounds much better for us as a city entity, though it sounds like it limits the ability of tenants to prove the mold is toxic unless they can afford to prove it. I agree that seems like the best way to go, but how long do the tenants have to live with toxic mold before we can step in? 

The case I'm dealing with is a historic Victorian house that has been converted into an apartment complex. One tenant has been sick for almost a year and finally got a diagnosis of toxic mold exposure from a doctor. She feels that this report from her doctor should be enough for us to start an enforcement. I don't have any way to prove that the mold she's been exposed to came from the house she's living in. So on top of everything else she and her daughter are dealing with, pandemic, unemployment, and being sick, she now has to track down someone to identify this mold as coming from the house? I can't even find anyone in our area qualified, or willing, to do this for her. Isn't this exactly what we are supposed to be able to help with? Fire Safety, Life Safety, and Health Safety. That's exactly what a building department is tasked with enforcing to protect our citizens. 

It seems to me if I can get some training that it would be pretty easy to take some samples and send them to a lab. If it's ID'd as toxic mold, post the unsafe notice. That doesn't seem to outrageous. But I would definitely like to hear other reasons why I should be cautious, what am I missing or not thinking about? Thanks again for the discussion.


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## Joe.B (Feb 5, 2021)

Joe.B said:


> I hear you and appreciate the feedback. So if I understand you correctly enforcement would go something like this: "I'm sorry I can't post an unsafe to occupy notice because I'm not trained to identify mold but if you can provide evidence of toxic mold we will post an unsafe notice." Tennant then hires a third party to sample the mold, get it identified, then present a report stating the the toxic was identified at said address. Once we validate the report then we post the notice and begin the enforcement process? That sounds much better for us as a city entity, though it sounds like it limits the ability of tenants to prove the mold is toxic unless they can afford to prove it. I agree that seems like the best way to go, but how long do the tenants have to live with toxic mold before we can step in?
> 
> The case I'm dealing with is a historic Victorian house that has been converted into an apartment complex. One tenant has been sick for almost a year and finally got a diagnosis of toxic mold exposure from a doctor. She feels that this report from her doctor should be enough for us to start an enforcement. I don't have any way to prove that the mold she's been exposed to came from the house she's living in. So on top of everything else she and her daughter are dealing with, pandemic, unemployment, and being sick, she now has to track down someone to identify this mold as coming from the house? I can't even find anyone in our area qualified, or willing, to do this for her. Isn't this exactly what we are supposed to be able to help with? Fire Safety, Life Safety, and Health Safety. That's exactly what a building department is tasked with enforcing to protect our citizens.
> 
> ...


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## Joe.B (Feb 5, 2021)

I like the Idea of getting a city ordinance to require the property owner to provide the testing, I just feel like they could, and would, fight it and drag their feet. Seems simpler for us to do it ourselves.


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## Inspector Gift (Feb 5, 2021)

IMHO, there is one simple reason that our building codes do not mention mold:  To avoid LITIGATION and LAWSUITS.    

Besides, there are more mold spores in Oregon alone than the number of people in the whole world.


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## Rick18071 (Feb 5, 2021)

I would say any kind of mold is a unsafe and/or nonsanitary condition and the owner should be required to fix it per IPMC. I wouldn't worry about what kind of mold it is. I'm sure the tenants could find a good ambulance chaser to sue for just a percent of the settlement.


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## cda (Feb 5, 2021)

Joe.B said:


> I like the Idea of getting a city ordinance to require the property owner to provide the testing, I just feel like they could, and would, fight it and drag their feet. Seems simpler for us to do it ourselves.



I think you can tell the owner space has to be vacated till you see lab results


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## cda (Feb 5, 2021)

Joe.B said:


> I like the Idea of getting a city ordinance to require the property owner to provide the testing, I just feel like they could, and would, fight it and drag their feet. Seems simpler for us to do it ourselves.



You might talk to a couple of moleoloigst,,

To either see what it takes to have some level of certification.

Or

How to collect properly and send to lab.


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## cda (Feb 5, 2021)

If the city goes into the mold collecting and sending for lab results 

Who will pay for the lab??

and your training

Have you researched that cost


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## cda (Feb 5, 2021)

To me this is just like other stuff you see

House has a partial burn affecting electrical wire.

Owner asks ,,, How much do I have to replace.

Your answer ,,,, Hire an electrician!!!

You do not normally open walls, boxes, etc to examine


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## Joe.B (Feb 5, 2021)

Inspector Gift said:


> IMHO, there is one simple reason that our building codes do not mention mold:  To avoid LITIGATION and LAWSUITS.
> 
> Besides, there are more mold spores in Oregon alone than the number of people in the whole world.


We are so far north in CA (and so far different) that we might as well be Oregon. I see mold on almost every rental inspection I do. It's wet here and if you have an old house with lots of leaks and just a crappy old wall furnace, you're going to get mold. Like others have posted I tend to look for the cause of the moisture and enforce those things. This old Victorian building is HUGE, they call it the Pythian Castle and it's an amazing building, and her apartment is actually very nice. 

The mold that's she's complaining about is not growing inside of her apartment, it's growing in the rest of the building. She says the roof leaks, but I can't get into the attic to see. She said other apartments have water damage in the lid and walls, but I haven't been invited to inspect those apartments. The shared laundry area has visible black mold growing on the walls, and the exterior of the building has visible black mold growing everywhere, it is in bad need of a power washing and a complete repaint. Also needs a new roof. Apparently landlords are "cheap" and only do the minimum maintenance. That's not my business though. As a longtime resident of a coastal wet climate I know there's mold everywhere and it's the city council that wants a rental inspection program. There are no local labs that can identify specific mold types, and there are no local service companies that will sample mold and send it to get tested. As an official I can't imagine that I could accept a lab result without knowing where the sample was taken from. The only way I could know is to take the sample myself. I also feel like I can't accept her doctors note about mold exposure because I don't know where else she could be exposed to mold. There is a huge cannabis industry here, both legal and not, and I know there's lots of mold in the places cannabis workers work.

I will be getting price quotes on mold tests, looking for training or certification available, and presenting it to the city council as part of our rental inspection program. Up to them if they want me to do this or not. I agree there is massive potential for lawsuits and litigation, that's a huge risk. I've also read studies on toxic black mold and it seems pretty gnarly. Anyways not my decision, just wanted to get educated and hear feedback. 

Thanks so much!!


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## Mark K (Feb 6, 2021)

The mold may be a  health problem but unless you can quote a code provision it is not something you can take action against.  Even then you can only write up the code violation.

If anybody has the authority to post the building based on mold I suspect that it is the public health department.

If your jurisdiction were to adopt a local ordinance dealing with this your jurisdiction should check with state laws and related programs.

Just because you do not know of any local consultants, labs, or lawyers dealing with these issues does not mean that they do not exist.


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## linnrg (Feb 10, 2021)

I send them to the store


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## cda (Feb 10, 2021)

linnrg said:


> I send them to the store
> 
> 
> 
> ...






PROFESSIONAL !!!!  and cheap


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