# walk in refer and sprinklers



## pwood (Jan 19, 2012)

Is a sprinkler head required in a walk in cooler less than 50 sq. ft. in a sprinklered building? never ran into this before! thanks! i forgot to mention that this is a self contained factory built unit, not site built.


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## Coug Dad (Jan 19, 2012)

In general, if you can walk into it, you sprinkler it.  If you reach into it, you don't.   Sprinklers are often required on top of walk ins if combustibles are there.


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## cda (Jan 19, 2012)

Coug Dad said:
			
		

> In general, if you can walk into it, you sprinkler it.  If you reach into it, you don't.   Sprinklers are often required on top of walk ins if combustibles are there.


Stop copying me

That has been my mantra for a long time

You sprinkle smaller enclousures than that, and you never know they may turn it off and start storing more stuff in it


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## mark handler (Jan 19, 2012)

walk-in type freezers, coolers, vaults and safes require sprinklers

NFPA  Formal Interpretation 78-6, these areas require sprinklers because they are part of the premises. NFPA 13 requires that sprinklers be installed throughout the premises in accordance with Section 4-1.1. There are no exceptions provided which allow for sprinkler omission in these areas.  Dry pendent sprinkler heads


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## Coug Dad (Jan 19, 2012)

Sorry CDA, great minds must think alike!


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## north star (Jan 19, 2012)

** **

From the `06 IBC, Section 903.3.1.1.1, Exempt locations, #2: Any room or space where

sprinklers are considered undesirable because of the nature of the contents, when

approved by the fire code official.



** **


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## mark handler (Jan 19, 2012)

IBC 2012

[F] 903.3.1.1.1 Exempt locations.

Automatic sprinklers shall not be required in the following rooms or areas where such rooms or areas are protected with an approved automatic fire detection system in accordance with Section 907.2 that will respond to visible or invisible particles of combustion.* Sprinklers shall not be omitted from any room merely because it is damp, *of fire-resistance-rated construction or contains electrical equipment.

1. Any room where the application of water, or flame and water, constitutes a serious life or fire hazard.

*2. Any room or space where sprinklers are considered undesirable because of the nature of the contents, when approved by the fire code official.*

3. Generator and transformer rooms separated from the remainder of the building by walls and floor/ceiling or roof/ceiling assemblies having a fire-resistance rating of not less than 2 hours.

4. Rooms or areas that are of noncombustible construction with wholly noncombustible contents.

5. Fire service access elevator machine rooms and machinery spaces.

6. Machine rooms and machinery spaces associated with occupant evacuation elevators designed in accordance with Section 3008.

BUT

walk-in type freezers, coolers, vaults and safes require sprinklers

NFPA Formal Interpretation 78-6, is specific regarding *walk-in type freezers, coolers, vaults and safes *require sprinklers.

There are no exceptions provided which allow for sprinkler omission in these areas.

Dry pendent sprinkler heads


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## pwood (Jan 19, 2012)

mark,

  do you have a link for this 78-6? thanks.


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## Insurance Engineer (Jan 19, 2012)

Do not forget the dry sprinklers only last for 10 years. So make sure you can get to it to replace it.

NFPA 25, 2011 edition, 2002 ed is the same

5.3.1.1.1.6* Dry sprinklers that have been in service for 10 years shall be replaced or representative samples shall be tested and

then retested at 10-year intervals.


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## mark handler (Jan 19, 2012)

pwood said:
			
		

> mark,  do you have a link for this 78-6? thanks.


I can't find my copy but scroll down to

Do walk-in type freezers, coolers, vaults and safes require sprinklers?

http://www.nfpa.org/faq.asp?categoryid=945


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## FM William Burns (Jan 19, 2012)

See A8.1.1 of NFPA 13


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## mark handler (Jan 19, 2012)

FM William Burns said:
			
		

> See A8.1.1 of NFPA 13


Which edition....


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## fireguy (Jan 19, 2012)

Insurance Engineer said:
			
		

> Do not forget the dry sprinklers only last for 10 years. So make sure you can get to it to replace it.NFPA 25, 2011 edition, 2002 ed is the same
> 
> 5.3.1.1.1.6* Dry sprinklers that have been in service for 10 years shall be replaced or representative samples shall be tested and
> 
> then retested at 10-year intervals.


Because as per the 25-2011 handbook, the failure rate of dry heads tested at 10 years is 50%.


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## mark handler (Jan 20, 2012)

fireguy said:
			
		

> Because as per the 25-2011 handbook, the failure rate of dry heads tested at 10 years is 50%.


Dry pipe systems have some disadvantages which must be evaluated before selecting this equipment. These include:

Increased complexity. Dry pipe systems require additional control equipment and air pressure supply components which increases system complexity. Without proper maintenance this equipment may be less reliable than a comparable wet pipe system.

Higher installation and maintenance costs. The added complexity impacts the overall dry-pipe installation cost. This complexity also increases maintenance expenditure, primarily due to added service labor costs.

Lower design flexibility. There are strict requirements regarding the maximum permitted size (typically 750 gallons) of individual dry-pipe systems. These limitations may impact the ability of an owner to make system additions.

Increased fire response time. Up to 60 seconds may pass from the time a sprinkler opens until water is discharged onto the fire. This will delay fire extinguishing actions, which may produce increased content damage.

Increased corrosion potential. Following operation, dry-pipe sprinkler systems must be completely drained and dried. Otherwise remaining water may cause pipe corrosion and premature failure. This is not a problem with wet pipe systems where water is constantly maintained in piping.

*With the exception of unheated building spaces and freezer rooms, dry pipe systems do not offer any significant advantages over wet pipe systems. Their use in buildings is generally not recommended.*


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## fireguy (Jan 20, 2012)

mark handler said:
			
		

> *With the exception of unheated building spaces and freezer rooms, dry pipe systems do not offer any significant advantages over wet pipe systems. Their use in buildings is generally not recommended.*


Dry sprinkler systems do have some problems.

Lack of maintanence is a contributing factor.  So far this winter we have had 4 of our dry sprinkler systems freeze and break, one of them has frozen twice. One sprinkler room froze completly, including  all the valves, the jockey pump, and the fire pump, and both risers.   Each building that has frozen has not had the condensation drained properly.  Those buildings with a competent maintanence program have not had a problem.

Installation standards need to be upgraded, concerning  both the pipe used and insulation practices.

Schedule 5 and 10 pipe is used because it costs less to install.  But 10 to 12 years later, we start replacing rusty pipe.  On one repair job I gave the customer 2 choices.  We could use schedule 10 or schedule 40.  The schedule 40 increased the cost 10%.  The customer spent the extra money.  Now, we use schedule 40 exclusivly.

We often add auxillary drains to dry systems.  We recently did a job and added 30 drains to dry system.  The architect could have saved the building owner lots of money over the last 20 years by not having a 48" eave overhang.  But the $21,000.00 check I got yesterday was nice.

Replacing rusty pipe is expensive.  It may take 7 man-hours to remove and replace a stick of pipe.

Insulation needs to be addressed in NFPA 13.  One of our clients had the roof insulated during the build. In 20+ years,   We have not had to replace any broken pipes. They have a wet system with an antifreeze loop protecting a small patio and 2 dry heads.  No dry pipe system.  Another building has plastic tented over the dry piping in the attic, with blown insulation.  The building has had no problem with frozen piping in 25 + years.  We have had 3" wet pipe systems freeze because of lack of insulation.  When a 3 " pipe thaws, everything gets wet!


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## FM William Burns (Jan 20, 2012)

markhandler said:
			
		

> Which edition....


I know at least back to NFPA 13 2002 [8.1.1]  Can't get to my 90's right now.


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## pwood (Jan 20, 2012)

the consensus seems to be yes.  they have a sprinkler head above the unit and the plans i approved had one inside. the owner thinks it is absurd to have one in the unit because he feels ice cream won't catch fire! not the first person to think i'm an idiot! :mrgreen:


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## Insurance Engineer (Jan 20, 2012)

Mark,

Dry sprinkler = apples

Dry Pipe Valve =oranges

You are mixing fruits


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## mark handler (Jan 20, 2012)

Insurance Engineer said:
			
		

> Mark, Dry sprinkler = apples Dry Pipe Valve =oranges You are mixing fruits


Each sprinkler operates individually, As the air pressure drops in the piping leading to the sprinklers the pressure differential across the dry pipe valve allows the water to flow.

I am not mixing anything


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## Insurance Engineer (Jan 20, 2012)

Mark,

Apple Dry Sprinkler

http://www.tyco-fire.com/TD_TFP/TFP/TFP500_05_2011.pdf

Orange Dry Pipe Valve

http://www.tyco-fire.com/TD_TFP/TFP/TFP1020_08_2007.pdf


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