# Snow guards for metal roofs?  Not required ... why?



## MikeC (Mar 11, 2015)

This is intended to be more of a discussion than a question.  With the recent winter and snow fall in the Buffalo, NY area, I am sure this has become a problem throughout a large area of the country.  In the past week, as things are beginning to thaw, our property maintenance department has received numerous calls about snow and ice falling from neighbor's metal roofs onto cars and other property, causing significant damage.  This leads me to believe that it is only a matter of time before someone slams an exterior door as they are leaving the house and is injured or killed by falling ice.  There are codes that are intended to protect people from, IMO, significantly smaller dangers.  Why hasn't this hazard ever been addressed?  With the increase in contractors pushing metal roofs as "lifetime roofs", this is only going to increase.


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## ICE (Mar 11, 2015)

It was on the news last night.  A row of cars with the windshield smashed.  You can't fix stupid.


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## MikeC (Mar 11, 2015)

ICE said:
			
		

> You can't fix stupid.


With some home improvement contractors, that is exactly what I try to do every day.


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## jpranch (Mar 11, 2015)

Excellent discussion to have. Living in snow country myself most of the design professionals include them on their plans. This looks like a great code change candidate. Perhaps now that there is *CDP Access* making it much easier to submit a code change proposal we can get'er done?

https://cdpaccess.com/?Token=ad115244-e3ee-4652-8411-2cc93e3ba870&Site=icc-cdp


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 11, 2015)

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/national/man-buried-snow-3-12-hours-after-roof-slide/nkJz2/

I would disagree that it is a large enough problem to warrant a code change

so me the statistics

We have had at least one die in this state from snow sliding off the roof and suffocating him. As for damage to vehicles well stupid is as stupid does when you park your car under an eve loaded with snow


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## jpranch (Mar 11, 2015)

MT, Understood. I have two pole buildings with metal roofs. I sure as heck do not park adjacent to to roofs when they have snow or ice on them. Been meaning to put snow "cleats" on for quite some time now. But I was thinking that perhaps on commercial buildings with metal roofs especially where there are sidewalks (walking surfaces) in cold climates might not be a bad idea. My mom had an ice sheet fall on her from a commercial building years ago. She was very lucky that day to be sure.


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## MikeC (Mar 11, 2015)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> As for damage to vehicles well stupid is as stupid does when you park your car under an eve loaded with snow


In my case, the majority of the city was built prior to zoning or code regulations.  Many houses are within a foot of the property line.  For those residents who are lucky enough to have a driveway, it is usually right next to the neighbor's house. Some ice used to fall straight down, which was okay.  Now more snow and ice falls out and down, landing in the driveway.  Imagine if your neighbor made a change that wouldn't allow you to use your driveway safely in the winter time.

I can point this out at the time of the permit application, but that is where my authority ends.  No code to prevent it.


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## steveray (Mar 11, 2015)

MikeC said:
			
		

> In my case, the majority of the city was built prior to zoning or code regulations.  Many houses are within a foot of the property line.  For those residents who are lucky enough to have a driveway, it is usually right next to the neighbor's house. Some ice used to fall straight down, which was okay.  Now more snow and ice falls out and down, landing in the driveway.  Imagine if your neighbor made a change that wouldn't allow you to use your driveway safely in the winter time.I can point this out at the time of the permit application, but that is where my authority ends.  No code to prevent it.


Adopt a local ordinance?....The problem will be, who draws the line where they are to be installed? "Average snowfall amount?" Or all metal roofs? People in SoCal will be PO'd...Good idea, tough code to write and get people to swallow. Snow and ice falls off of the sky scrapers, how are we going to handle that?

Good signature Mike!


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## Francis Vineyard (Mar 11, 2015)

Snow guards reduces; not intended to stop slides anymore than rain gutters.


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## jpranch (Mar 11, 2015)

steveray said:
			
		

> Adopt a local ordinance?....The problem will be, who draws the line where they are to be installed? "Average snowfall amount?" Or all metal roofs? People in SoCal will be PO'd...Good idea, tough code to write and get people to swallow. Snow and ice falls off of the sky scrapers, how are we going to handle that?Good signature Mike!


All good and valid questions. This is looking more and more like a code change proposal! LOL!


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## north star (Mar 11, 2015)

*@ ~ ~ ~ @*

*"IF"  *the IPMC has been adopted in that jurisdiction, ...it may have some

answers........See Section 304 - Exterior Property  [  see the link  ]:



*http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/ipmc/2012/icod_ipmc_2012_3_sec004.htm*

*@ ~ ~ ~ @*


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 11, 2015)

The IPMC would be a real streeeeeetch

IMHO. the existing structure and maintenance is not the problem with snow sliding off of a roof. It is the original design of the roof that determines where the water and snow will discharge. Some older buildings where designed with little roof insulation so the snow would melt or slide off without imposing a significant snow load on the roof. Today we over insulate existing buildings increasing the amount of snow that will build up before it slides off. 4 inch build up in 1940 when heat was cheap and the roof had an R-10 insulation. Today 4 feet of snow builds up because a building owner got a tax credit to insulate his roof to an R-49 to save energy


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## north star (Mar 11, 2015)

*~ ~ $ ~ ~*



Sometimes, using the IPMC as a streeeeeeeetch, may be the only

option a jurisdiction has to use, in lieu of them not having a local

ordinance in place.

Another option is for the tenant or homeowner to file a law suit.



*~ ~ $ ~ ~*


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 11, 2015)

If you do not have a local ordinance in place then you do not have a violation.

The code can not and never should try to address every situation that may come up from time to time.


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