# Occupancy Question: Classrooms for Church under IBC 2006



## brudgers (Oct 26, 2009)

Code:  IBC 2006

I would appreciate input regarding the proper occupancy classification for Church Classrooms in two senarios:

1.  Free standing educational building of 10,000 sf.

2.  10,000 sf classroom addition to existing sanctuary building.

I've read through the code and formed some preliminary ideas, but would like your unbiased takes.

Thanks,

b


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## JBI (Oct 26, 2009)

Re: Occupancy Question: Classrooms for Church under IBC 2006

brudgers - I didn't spend too much time on this one but...

SECTION 305 EDUCATIONAL GROUP E

305.1 Educational Group E.

Educational Group E occupancy includes, among others, the use of a building or structure, or a portion thereof, by six or more persons at any one time for educational purposes through the 12th grade. Religious educational rooms and religious auditoriums, which are accessory to places of religious worship in accordance with Section 508.3.1 and have occupant loads of less than 100, shall be classified as A-3 occupancies.

Does your scenario include any rooms over 100 OL? You weren't too specific on the room sizes, or is this one big room?


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## EPrice (Oct 26, 2009)

Re: Occupancy Question: Classrooms for Church under IBC 2006

Scenario 2 first: I am assuming that the entire 10,000 sq. ft. isn't one classroom.  If it is multiple classrooms and no classroom has an occupant load > 100, then I think it would be an A-3 occupancy in accordance with 305.1.

Scenario 1: This depends on whether the classroom building in on the same property as a sanctuary building and whether it's use could appropriately be considered to be accessory to the use of the sanctuary building.  If so, then I would treat it the same as scenario 2.  If the classroom building is not on the same property as the sanctuary building or if the use isn't accessory to the use of the sanctuary building, then I would treat it as an E or B occupancy, depending on the age of the normal students.


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## vegas paul (Oct 26, 2009)

Re: Occupancy Question: Classrooms for Church under IBC 2006

Interesting interpretations... I've always ASSumed that the total occupant load for the classrooms was used to differentiate between E and A-3, not the individual classroom load.  The commentary specifically states that it is NOT the intention to count these separtely, but to look at the aggregate occupant load.

So... I'd call it an E, either way, regardless whether it were attached or detached.


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## RLM-Architect (Oct 26, 2009)

Re: Occupancy Question: Classrooms for Church under IBC 2006

The primary questions to ask is, is the building used for Sunday school classes OR is it to be used for educational purposes like a regular elementary, middle, or high school (this is the K-12 part of the occupancy definition).

If used for K-12 teaching, then the classification of the building is Group E - Educational.

If, however, the classrooms are all to be used for Sunday school or for college or adult education classes, then the proper occupancy classification for the building is Group B - Business.

The occupant load in any classroom is 20 square feet per occupant and is applied only to the net square footage of the classrooms, a business occupancy is calculated at 100 square feet per occupant based on the GROSS area of the building less the classrooms calculated at 20 sf per.

The same occupancy classifications are applicable to the NFPA 101 Life Safety Code.

If any single room/space has a "calculated" occupant load of 50 or more, then the Assembly occupancy classification is applied to *that room only*.  Any door serving THAT room or any Group E building (not each classroom with load less than 50) with an occupant load of 50 or more requires panic hardware.

Hope this clears it up for you.


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## brudgers (Oct 27, 2009)

Re: Occupancy Question: Classrooms for Church under IBC 2006

Thanks everyone for your input.

The project is in due diligence so there really aren't any specifics.

Other than an existing two story type VB unsprinklered building has been discussed as part of the master plan.

I'm trying to better weigh the implications of various alternatives.

Thanks again for you thoughts.


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 28, 2009)

Re: Occupancy Question: Classrooms for Church under IBC 2006

"If, however, the classrooms are all to be used for Sunday school or for college or adult education classes, then the proper occupancy classification for the building is Group B - Business."

A Group B would only be applicable if *adults only *use the classrooms.


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## atomahutna (Oct 28, 2009)

Re: Occupancy Question: Classrooms for Church under IBC 2006

I agree with mtlog - Where a space is used for different occupancies at different times, it must meet all of the occupancy requirements of each use.  IBC 302.1


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## Big Mac (Oct 28, 2009)

Re: Occupancy Question: Classrooms for Church under IBC 2006

Your statement identified this as a Religious Occupancy.  A-3.  Religious educational rooms and religious auditoriums, which are accessory to places of religious worship in accordance with 508.3.1 and have occupant loads of less than 100, shall be classified as A-3 occupancies.  If ther occupant load exceeds 100, it seems as though they would be assembly occupancies in their own right.  Section 305.1


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## IJHumberson (Nov 6, 2009)

Re: Occupancy Question: Classrooms for Church under IBC 2006

Proceed with caution and document, document, document!  Invariably, during the plans review phase, the architect and the church will vow that the classrooms are only going to be used during sunday school (No Educational Occupancy). Then, once the church is occupied, they see all that space sitting empty all week, and it's like the little gears start turning in their heads and someone says "Hey, why don't we use these classrooms for a preschool?" ... Or someone wants to rent the church space for a preschool  - or private school.  Now they come back to the AHJ asking to please be able to use this building that was constructed as Assembly Occupancy for Educational Occupancy and it doesn't meet code for Educational Use, and the AHJ is the bad guy! :roll:

If you are going to approve it for Assembly Occupancy only, I would strongly recommend that you at least get something in writing from the Church stating that they are aware that the building will never be allowed to be used as a school.  It isn't much, but it's at least something to show them several years down the road when you are trying to get them to make the necessary code upgrades so they can have a school!


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## brudgers (Nov 6, 2009)

Re: Occupancy Question: Classrooms for Church under IBC 2006

Actually, I'm designing it.

Or rather I was performing my due diligence while putting together my proposal.

The issue was that they wanted to reuse an existing type Vb two story classroom building as part of their in-house master plan.

Prior to posting, I had already read the code and formed an opinion (Occupancy Group E) regardless of attachment.

I asked the question in a vague manner to solict input...thanks again everyone.

BTW, I never just go with what the local jurisdiction approves (or what they don't approve either).


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## Yikes (Nov 10, 2009)

Re: Occupancy Question: Classrooms for Church under IBC 2006

Just last year, I did a freestanding "Sunday School" building.  It had moveable partitions as room dividers.  It was a building with 3 levels (2 stories + basement).  The bottom 2 levels were used for children's Sunday School, and the top level was used for adult sunday school.  The building was buried into the hillside, and the bottom two levels had on-grade exits.

It was NOT being used for weekday K-12 education (i.e., the "3 R's"); it was used for "religious instruction", which is mainly Sunday School, plus some Wednesday evening "Awana"-type events.  Thus, there was NO "E" occupancy.

It was A-3 when the partitions were closed, and A-2.1 when the partitions were open.

The key is to size the exit system for the most intensive use (partitions open).

I think there is an underlying life-safety assumption that differentiates E occupancy education vs. religious instruction.  With the E occupancy, the kids are separated from their parents - - they're dropped off to school for the day.  With Sunday School, the parents are usually also proximate, on the same church campus, and able to assist the children in event of emergency.


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## RLM-Architect (Dec 9, 2009)

Re: Occupancy Question: Classrooms for Church under IBC 2006

atomahutna

I disagree with both you and mtlog on this.

I point you to Section 304.

I will use "Training and skill development not within a school or academic program" noted in the list for Business occupancy.  Also, Sunday School is for adults too.  (I need it more than others)

While the discussion is not specifically regarding the NFPA 101, that Code also uses the Business occupancy for Sunday school buildings.

I grant that if there are any single spaces in that building with an occupant load of 50 or more, then a mixed occupancy of Groups A and B are present but I would not treat the building as all Assembly for purposes of sprinkler and fire alarm unless the occupant load exceeds 300 or if the building were not separated from the sanctuary building.

Your thoughts?


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 9, 2009)

Re: Occupancy Question: Classrooms for Church under IBC 2006

RLM

In order to use a "B" occupancy the classrooms would have to be restricted to adults only and Sunday School in a church normally means all ages. It can be done but in all praticallity an "E" is the proper classification for a 10,000 sq ft sunday school classroom addition.

Now if he chooses the addition scenario and they use non-seperated uses then the most restrictive applys and every thing is designed to the A-3 anyway


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## RLM-Architect (Dec 9, 2009)

Re: Occupancy Question: Classrooms for Church under IBC 2006

mt

I was raised on the NFPA 101 which would place the building in Group B with a touch of A for spaces with occupant load >50 since the Sunday school does not meet all the requirements of Education (number of hours per day and week etc)

I thought the IBC references A3 IF there is no separation between the sanctuary (occ load >50) and the Sunday school building.

I have a rough time translating between LSC & IBC.

I wonder why the difference on this specific issue?


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 9, 2009)

Re: Occupancy Question: Classrooms for Church under IBC 2006

IJH advise on documenting all the proposed uses with the church is the best advice



> Other than an existing two story type VB unsprinklered building has been discussed as part of the master plan.


A two story VB exceeds the allowable height for an A or E use


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## Big Mac (Dec 14, 2009)

Re: Occupancy Question: Classrooms for Church under IBC 2006

Assuming (bad word) the original poster is using the 2006 IBC, I am more than a bit perplexed as to why some find Section 508.3.1, item #3 unclear.  It seems very clear to me.  Accessory religous educational rooms having an occupant load of less than 100 are not considered separate occupancies.  Therefore, they are considered 'Use Group A-3' occupancies.

Now if there is also a K-12 school use, that is  a different matter, and needs to be addressed separately.


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## Rick18071 (Dec 16, 2009)

Re: Occupancy Question: Classrooms for Church under IBC 2006

It must be less than 10% of the floor of the building.


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## georgia plans exam (Dec 17, 2009)

Re: Occupancy Question: Classrooms for Church under IBC 2006

Rick,

I believe that if exeption #3 is used, it would negate the 10% requirement of Section 508.3.1.

GPE


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## Examiner (Dec 17, 2009)

Re: Occupancy Question: Classrooms for Church under IBC 2006

I have not read through all the post but Code Congress told me when I was designing a Church with Sunday School rooms that the Sunday School rooms would be considered Assembly.  Educational occupancy use groups are Child care, pre school and grades 1-12 not Sunday School Classrooms.  Sunday School rooms can be less than the 750-sf rule and they still are Assembly according to what I was told by Code Congress.

Hopes this helps.


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## Big Mac (Dec 17, 2009)

Re: Occupancy Question: Classrooms for Church under IBC 2006

That "BAD BOOK", the commentary, reads

"In places of religeous worship, religeous educational rooms are often provided in the same building complex.  Sections 305.1 and Exception #3 (of 508.3.1) provide that the accessory religeous educational rooms and religeous auditorium need not be considered separate occupancies as long as the occupant load in these spaces is not greater than 100 people, regardless of the percentage of floor area."


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