# Drop out ceilings for sprinkler system.



## Brookhaven 58 (Jul 1, 2010)

NFPA 13 allows the use of drop out ceilings panels to conceal sprinkler heads above.  As this is the first time in ten years that this question has been asked of me, I was wondering if there have been any bad experiences or incidents that anyone is aware of.  Thanks


----------



## cda (Jul 1, 2010)

two problems

1. make sure the correct ones are installed initialy.

2. also, installed per nfpa 13 with correct head placement

3. over the years how do you know they will be replaced with the same listed tiles???????????

not to many problems

only seen them used once on about 20 years


----------



## cda (Jul 1, 2010)

you might ask this to be posted under fire, but should still get a number of repsonses

WELCOME to the board alot of good knowledge here


----------



## Architect1281 (Jul 1, 2010)

Drop Out not so Much

The tiles are an EPS product which is designed to melt back when exposed to heat at a temperature less that that necessary to activate the supression head. they shrivel up like a styrene cup exposed to petroleum.

I Used these many times as a design professional and on occasion inform applicants of them as a suggested compliance method.

These units can also be painted and retain their properties.

many designer / occupant objections to them are they are extremely lightweight

when in a small room they tend to pop up when you open the door in reaction to air pressue changes

so sometimes clips are installed to keep in place.

cool legal product


----------



## Plans Approver (Jul 1, 2010)

Get the listing. Get the listing. Get the listing.

NFPA 13 does not permit drop-out ceiling below quick-response or extended coverage sprinklers unless listed for such use. QR sprinklers are required in light hazard occupancies such as offices, restaurants, schools, nursing homes and several other common uses. Clips and paint can't be used on tiles unless allowed in the listing.

Had one of these 2 years ago, asked for the listing before purchase and installation. Guess what? The second ceiling install passed. The first ceiling may be in somebody's basement rec room now.

Did I mention get the listing?


----------



## FyrBldgGuy (Jul 2, 2010)

Don't like then - never have.

I have worked with many older buildings where these were used to cover older ceilings where the cost to drop the sprinklers was considered excessive.  The product is legal if used correctly.  As a fire marshal... but more as a fire fighter I never liked the idea of a product designed to fall on my head.


----------



## Builder Bob (Jul 2, 2010)

Not a great idea.... the building gets CO'ed then tenant upfit come along, the ceiling tiles (meltaways) are expensive, thus you end up with incorrect installation of ceiling tiles or the tenat starts to replace tiles due to water spots and uses the wrong ceiling tiles.....


----------



## peach (Jul 3, 2010)

never see them here... they use the pop down heads.


----------



## FM William Burns (Jul 3, 2010)

Like to agree with others here, a problem is during maintenance inspections typically they are not recognized by inspectors and as BB says, very commonly changed when the roof leaks or the cable guy or IT run additional stuff for them.  I'm with FBG also, can't stand it when crap falls down the bunker coat from pulling celings or falling debris.


----------



## peach (Jul 3, 2010)

exactly why we have stopped doing a separate grid ceiling close in inspection; too much stuff (communication wire, etc) goes in after we are there... provide a ladder, I'll bring a flashlight and you'll pop ceiling tiles at final.


----------



## Brookhaven 58 (Jul 4, 2010)

Thanks for all the input.  I was aware of the issue QR and EC heads and the need for the panels to be listed for this use.  As I thought, the big issue will be with the maintenance of the ceiling after the original installation.  Again thanks for help.


----------



## Gordon (Jul 7, 2010)

I have seen them work. I was a skeptic, but they worked as advertised-- one or two panels "melted" out of the ceiling allowing the single sprinkler above to discharge in a timely manner. Of course, all of the above precautions / caveats regarding installation & maintenance apply.


----------



## bhenry (Aug 2, 2010)

Hello,

I would like to revive this thread with another related question. We run into the drop out tiles occasionally. Generally they cause no problems. We have run into a couple of instances where they were painted and the occupants are in the process of having them replaced. It is relatively clear that the listing is void if the tiles are painted.

In the office we discussed options and one that came up was allowing the owner to drop the heads through the ceiling instead of replacing the painted tiles. We are in agreement that it would be okay. The assumption being that the listing is void and the tiles will not drop in a timely manner due to the insulating qualities and adhesion of the paint.

My question is this...would you allow the drop out tiles in a ceiling that also had sprinkler heads dropped below the ceiling?


----------



## cda (Aug 2, 2010)

good question

I would be a little hesitant putting my name approval on this set up.

I would seek an FPE evaluation.

from one post """"Clips and paint can't be used on tiles unless allowed in the listing"""

have not had to deal with drop outs in a long time, so do not know if there are any that can be painted????


----------



## cda (Aug 2, 2010)

Painting

All Ceilume products can be painted before or after installation. Be sure ceiling tiles and decorative strips are clean and dry and experiment on a sample ceiling tile with your paint of choice before painting the ceiling in its entirety. Do not use solvent type thinner or cleaners

http://www.ceilume.com/how-to-install-drop-ceiling-tiles.cfm


----------



## Plans Approver (Aug 3, 2010)

I agree w/ cda - I wouldn't put my name to it either.  These tiles are made to be placed under sprinklers not above (said for emphasis - I know that you know that). Painting removes its approval for below sprinklers and removes its Class A rating ( see cda's link). What does the rating become Class B or C or none? Refer to Table 803.5. The paint may not add a whole lot of thermal resistance, and, the tile may still melt out anyway and increase the sprinkler response time. These are lightweight, plastic tiles. The heat plume, let alone the fire plume, may blow/push/raise them out unless clipped down. But, these tiles start to deform at around 110 degrees and usually well out of the way before the sprinkler operation temperature of 165 degrees (required by the tiles listing for below sprinklers).  Maybe new 135 degree sprinkler heads would be required - additional cost.

If they are going through the cost of lowering all of the sprinklers, they may as well spend the few bucks per sf to put in a heavier, standard, clipped down, acoustic tile that has a Class A, B, or C rating depending on its use.

My dime's worth.


----------



## cda (Aug 3, 2010)

plans approver,      very well said

thinking that every tile will not have a sprinkler head in it, so you could lose quite a few tiles before the heat gets near a head!!!!


----------



## Michael Chusid RA FCSI (Feb 10, 2022)

I am a consultant to Ceilume, manufacturer of drop-out ceilings with an UAPMO-UES listing. I would like to address several comments:

"over the years how do you know they will be replaced with the same listed tiles?" Ceilume offers a placard to be mounted above the ceiling or by the main sprinkler valve notifying future building owners or managers that ceiling panels must be replaced in kind.

"as a fire fighter I never liked the idea of a product designed to fall on my head." Agreed. Note, however, that thermoformed panels by Ceilume are very lightweight, less than 13 ounces per 24"x24" panel, and unlikely to cause an injury. They fall one at a time in response to fire spread, so it is not like an entire ceiling falls on you. As a flat panel, they sort of glide to the floor instead of "dropping". I suspect they are less dangerous than other, heavier ceiling products that can pull down an entire ceiling suspension grid.

"can't stand it when crap falls down the bunker coat from pulling celings" Agreed. See comment above about lightweight. And pulling mineral fiber panels is one of the dirtiest jobs around. Thermoformed panels do not release fibers when they get pulled.

"the ceiling tiles (meltaways) are expensive"  Meltaway panels, such as those made from EPS foam should be avoided. Melting plastic does not belong in a fire. Thermoformed panels, however, are made from sheet vinyl that is Class A, Flame Class V-0, and has intrinsic fire-resistance. Exposed to fire, they soften, sag, and drop to the floor still in their panel form. Their cost is competitive with many other types of acoustic ceiling panels.

"replace tiles due to water spots" Thermoformed panels are impervious to water damage, do not sag or stain due to water, and do not support mold.

"would you allow the drop out tiles in a ceiling that also had sprinkler heads dropped below the ceiling?" Ceilume's IAPMO-UES listing deals with this. The hole in the ceiling panel needs to be 1/4" larger in diameter than the protruding sprinkler. Testing shows this allows panels to drop without gettin entangled in the sprinkler.

"Clips ... can't be used on tiles unless allowed in the listing" Right. Ceilume's IAPMO listing allows clips.

"Ceilume products can be painted before or after installation"  WHOA! While they can, in general, be painted, it invalidates the IAPMO-UES listing, the surface burning classification, and other performance claims.

I hope this clarifies the issues. We have several white papers on our website, and will be glad to assist.


----------



## ICE (Feb 10, 2022)

It sounds like the company that you represent could be a forum corporate sponsor and get valuable exposure.


----------

