# Horn strobes in operating rooms?



## mtlogcabin (Mar 1, 2013)

We just did the final on our hospital addition and now the operating room doctors want the horn strobes removed or disconnected.

They have concerns about the distraction they will cause if the operate continually while they are in surgery. Realistically they can't just quit in the middle of a surgery and roll the patient out the door.

There is a nurses station about 20 feet from the OR rooms that is manned when the OR's are being used and the suggestion was the nurse could notify the people in the OR if needed

How have others handled this?


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## cda (Mar 1, 2013)

101 address it???

Only makes sense not to have them

Not in office, can't remember what 72 says about public/ private mode

907.2.7.1 Occupant notification. During times that the building is occupied, the initiation of a signal from a manual fire alarm box or from a water flow switch shall not be required to activate the alarm notification appliances when an alarm signal is activated at a constantly attended location from which evacuation instructions shall be initiated over an emergency voice/alarm communication system installed in accordance with Section 907.6.2.2.

907.6.2.1 Audible alarms. Audible alarm notification appliances shall be provided and emit a distinctive sound that is not to be used for any purpose other than that of a fire alarm.

Exception: Visible alarm notification appliances shall be allowed in lieu of audible alarm notification appliances in critical care areas of Group I-2 occupancies.


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## north star (Mar 1, 2013)

*+ + +*

The code section that **cda** provided is also listed in the `06 IFC,

Section 907.10.2 - Audible alarms [ i.e. - not required ].

*+ + +*


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 1, 2013)

I know they are required that is why they where installed. I can also understand when the surgeon is looking at a monitor doing microscopic surgery on the back near the spinal cord. or removing a tumor from the brain or any numer of other scenerios he may not want a strobe flashing affecting his/her vision. Thought there might be something else on the market that could be accepted under alternate methods.


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## cda (Mar 1, 2013)

Can you look at 72 and see what it says about private mode

http://www.systemsensor.com/pdf/A05-0218.pdf

If a nearby constantly attended location is notified, they can alert the operating room


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## cda (Mar 1, 2013)

Office of Statewide Health Planning and Development Facilities Development Division (FDD) Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - Health Facility Construction - Fire and Life Safety (FLS) Fire Alarm


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## kilitact (Mar 1, 2013)

Agree with North star, the exception to Section 907.5.1.


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## mark handler (Mar 1, 2013)

cda said:
			
		

> Office of Statewide Health Planning and Development Facilities Development Division (FDD) Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - Health Facility Construction - Fire and Life Safety (FLS) Fire Alarm


Outdated based on the 2007 CBC


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## cda (Mar 1, 2013)

mark handler said:
			
		

> Outdated based on the 2007 CBC


Thanks. Was trying to pull out the public/private mode


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 2, 2013)

Is there an alternative for the strobes under the private mode? I only see where it relates to the horns or am I missing the full intent of a private mode?


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## cda (Mar 2, 2013)

Can you infer by private mode, audio is not required if notification is sent to a constantly attended location ?

And if so, can you further infer that if audio is not needed , because someone will be alerted, that visual is not needed??


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## Architect1281 (Mar 2, 2013)

Put in a switch that you turn on when the inspector comes by - common sense ridiculos


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## north star (Mar 2, 2013)

** = **

From the *`13 Edition of NFPA 72, Ch. 18 - Notification Appliances,*

*Section 18.4.4.2 - Private Mode **Audible Requirements:*"Where

approved by the authority having jurisdiction [ AHJ ] or other governing

codes or standards, the requirements for audible signaling shall be

permitted to be reduced or eliminated when visible signaling is provided

in accordance with Section 18.5."

to

*Section 18.5 - Visible characteristics - Public Mode, ...Sub*

*Section 18.5.2.2:*"Unless otherwise specified or required by

other sections of this code, the required coverage area for visible

occupant notification shall be as required by other governing laws,

codes or standards."



From the *`12 Edition of NFPA-99, Section 15.7.4 - Occupant*

*Notification, Sub-section 15.7.4.3.6:*"Visible signals shall not be

required in surgical operating rooms, patient sleeping rooms, or

psychiatric care areas, where their operation would interfere with

patient treament."

From the *`12 Edition of NFPA-101, Section 9.6.3 - Occupant*

*Notification, ...Sub-section 9.6.3.5:*"Unless otherwise provided

in Section 9.6.3.5.8, notification signals for occupants to evacuate

shall be audible and visible signals in accordance with NFPA-72,

[ National Fire Alarm and Signaling Code, and ICC/ANSI A117.1

[ American National Standard for Accessible and Usable

Buildings and Facilities ], or other means of notification

acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction shall be provided."



Do you know what design standard(s) were used for these horns

& strobes [ i.e. - NFPA-101, ...IFC, ...NFPA -99, other ], and which

one specifically had or has, authority on the design?

** = **


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## cda (Mar 2, 2013)

Someone is trying to address it;;

» Visual and audible fire alarms The committee wants to clarify that certain areas of hospitals, including operating rooms, should not be required to have loud fire alarms or strobe lights because the sudden blast of noise or a flash of light could interrupt delicate surgery or other patient care and cause patient harm.

Reality-based codes | International Code Council, ASHE, code updates


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## cda (Mar 2, 2013)

Adaag

(14) If emergency warning systems are provided, then they shall include both audible alarms and visual alarms complying with 4.28. Sleeping accommodations required to comply with 9.3 shall have an alarm system complying with 4.28. Emergency warning systems in medical care facilities may be modified to suit standard health care alarm design practice.


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 5, 2013)

Thanks for the info. Although we are not able to use the 2012 NFPA I have forwarded that info along with cda's link to "reality-based codes" and instructed there DP to provide an alternative notification plan that we can approve. He will also need the states blessing but they are about 4 code cycles back in  the NFPA 101 that they use.


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## mark handler (Mar 5, 2013)

cda said:
			
		

> Adaag(14) If emergency warning systems are provided, then they shall include both audible alarms and visual alarms complying with 4.28. Sleeping accommodations required to comply with 9.3 shall have an alarm system complying with 4.28. Emergency warning systems in medical care facilities may be modified to suit standard health care alarm design practice.


ADAAG no longer in effect ADASAD is.......

2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design


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## mark handler (Mar 5, 2013)

2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design

702.1 General. Fire alarm systems shall have permanently installed audible and visible alarms complying with NFPA 72 (1999 or 2002 edition) (incorporated by reference, see "Referenced Standards" in Chapter 1), except that the maximum allowable sound level of audible notification appliances complying with section 4-3.2.1 of NFPA 72 (1999 edition) shall have a sound level no more than 110 dB at the minimum hearing distance from the audible appliance. In addition, alarms in guest rooms required to provide communication features shall comply with sections 4-3 and 4-4 of NFPA 72 (1999 edition) or sections 7.4 and 7.5 of NFPA 72 (2002 edition).

EXCEPTION: Fire alarm systems in medical care facilities shall be permitted to be provided in accordance with industry practice.


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## tmurray (Mar 5, 2013)

Since operating rooms are designed to continue operating regardless of fire situation due to the potential for loss of life, I fail to see what notification equipment is going to do for these people. Regardless, it is likely that audible alarms will be heard through wall, floor or ceiling assemblies to the point that the occupants would be aware of the alarm.


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## mtlogcabin (Mar 5, 2013)

> Regardless, it is likely that audible alarms will be heard through wall, floor or ceiling assemblies to the point that the occupants would be aware of the alarm.


Some surgeons play some real loud music during surgery


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