# Bedrooms with no windows



## McShan (Sep 30, 2011)

I got a call from a DP, he is drawing plans for a new residential home three BR upstairs with no windows only egress is the entry doors. He wanted to know if this could be accepted if he fully sprinkled the bedrooms and hall all the way to an downstairs exit door? I said no, because of egress and the requirement for lighting. Am I wrong?


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## imhotep (Sep 30, 2011)

McShan said:
			
		

> I got a call from a DP, he is drawing plans for a new residential home three BR upstairs with no windows only egress is the entry doors. He wanted to know if this could be accepted if he fully sprinkled the bedrooms and hall all the way to an downstairs exit door? I said no, because of egress and the requirement for lighting. Am I wrong?


I don't see how you could be wrong.  What codes are you working with?


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## McShan (Sep 30, 2011)

We are working with the 2009 IRC


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## TimNY (Sep 30, 2011)

I don't think the glazing and ventilation is an issue, there are exceptions for both.  The issue would be the lack of EERO.

Sprinklers alone wouldn't do it.. Perhaps building to the IBC instead of the IRC would allow it.


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## imhotep (Sep 30, 2011)

McShan said:
			
		

> We are working with the 2009 IRC


SECTION R310 EMERGENCY ESCAPE AND RESCUE OPENINGS stops the discussion.

There are no equivalents to an emergency escape and rescue opening in a bedroom.  Natural light could be omitted if the opening were not required and artificial light is provided.

Only avenue for the DP is to ask the BO for a modification per R104.10.  I don't see how it would ever be granted.


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## imhotep (Sep 30, 2011)

TimNY said:
			
		

> I don't think the glazing and ventilation is an issue, there are exceptions for both.  The issue would be the lack of EERO.Sprinklers alone wouldn't do it.. Perhaps building to the IBC instead of the IRC would allow it.


IBC 2009 SECTION 1029 EMERGENCY ESCAPE AND RESCUE will not allow it.


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## bgingras (Sep 30, 2011)

the 2009 irc included sprinklers in single family homes, other areas of protection were reduced and/or proposed amendments for protection were not included as a result of this assumed life safety requirement , yet through all of that, the requirement for windows that meet the emergency rescue size remained, so definitely would say no matter what, they are required. Let them go before your state regulatory agency/board/whatever you have that regulates the Building Code to seek a variance or exception from that regulation.


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## McShan (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks for the reply's maybe i'm not as dumb as I look. by the way the state threw the sprinkler requirement out for residential construction.


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## hlfireinspector (Sep 30, 2011)

The sprinkler system you were going to install would not even meet the requriments of 13D and it would be possible a fire starting in the unsprinklered portion of the home would not be stopped by that system.


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## peach (Sep 30, 2011)

some places still hang on to sprinklers as being equivalent to EERO .. I'd hate to sleep in a dungeon, tho.


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## cda (Sep 30, 2011)

My question would be what kind of person wants a bedroom without windows, unless they had a medical condition


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## McShan (Sep 30, 2011)

maybe twilight fans


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## fatboy (Oct 1, 2011)

Thanks for the try.........not going to work.


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## khsmith55 (Oct 1, 2011)

One option may be to permit the DP to design the dwelling under ALL the requirements of the IBC, IMC, IPC, NEC, etc. If the ENTIRE building is provided with a NFPA 13R or 13 sprinkler system no EERO’s are required. Mechanical ventilation and light will be required. This would also permit eliminating ALL windows in the building therefore making the building more energy efficient (sarcasm for the “Green” crowd).


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## TimNY (Oct 1, 2011)

khsmith55 said:
			
		

> One option may be to permit the DP to design the dwelling under ALL the requirements of the IBC, IMC, IPC, NEC, etc. If the ENTIRE building is provided with a NFPA 13R or 13 sprinkler system no EERO’s are required. Mechanical ventilation and light will be required. This would also permit eliminating ALL windows in the building therefore making the building more energy efficient (sarcasm for the “Green” crowd).


Even the IBC does not allow you to omit EERO below the fourth floor (as referenced in the section quoted by imhotep)


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## Pcinspector1 (Oct 1, 2011)

Might let the DP know only ONE window per bedroom is to be a EERO all other windows in the bedroom could be smaller or of another type to meet light requirements. Most likely he has design constraints preventing the required windows.

pc1


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## rktect 1 (Oct 3, 2011)

That is just a red flag home/occupant.  People who do not want windows are not just looking for privacy.  They don't want anybody to know what is going on in there.


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## rshuey (Oct 3, 2011)

Meth house plans imo.


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## gbhammer (Oct 3, 2011)

rshuey said:
			
		

> Meth house plans imo.


Can't be a meth house.

If it was a meth house there would be no second floor it would all about the basement. Meth makers like tunnels and escape routes. A second floor with only one means of egress would drive them nuts. Of course the stair would be easy to trap, and they could fill the partial sprinkler system with some kind of chemical designed to hurt intruders. My first week on the job, I was on the news for a meth bust where the guy had booby traps every where and an alligator in his living room. This guy had not one but three escape tunnels a lot of traps most of them were meant to maim but some could have killed. We had to have the bomb squad clear the way before we could go in and post violations.


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## BSSTG (Oct 3, 2011)

Good grief!

That's spooky gbhammer. We do have to be careful. My botherinlaw has been a self employed appraiser for 35 years and never had problem. Then he goes into a supposedly vacant house and get's hit in the head with a baseball bat. Dang near killed him. I know a contractor that got really tore up a pit a couple of months back too. It' a frinkin jungle out there!

BS


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## gbhammer (Oct 3, 2011)

One of our inspectors saved a sherifs deputy from an acid bath when he noticed something funny above a door to an outbuilding. The deputy was about to open the door when the inspector grapped him and pulled him away. They had to break a window and climb in to disarm the trap.


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## Architect1281 (Oct 3, 2011)

So after reading and avoiding the question

Glazing and ventilation can be provided with Luminaires and Mechanical vent systems

?? Is the any requirement for an EERO to be glazed ? like the only mention of window is followed by well

Can the EERO be of opague wall assembly


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## fatboy (Oct 3, 2011)

Still has to be operable.......call it what you want, but it has to meet minimum clear opening dimensions and size.


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## Coug Dad (Oct 3, 2011)

I started seeing windowless bedrooms during the condo boom.  Buildings with linear, double loaded corridors did not want to waste those views on bedrooms.  The view fronts served the living spaces and the sleeping areas were windowless.  Buyers wanted the views for where they spent most of thier awake time.


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 3, 2011)

> Can the EERO be of opague wall assembly


Yes

EMERGENCY ESCAPE AND RESCUE OPENING. An operable exterior window, door or similar device that provides for a means of escape and access for rescue in the event of an emergency.


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