# Zoning strikes again



## mtlogcabin (Oct 11, 2011)

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=149&sid=2584585


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## cda (Oct 11, 2011)

raise the ground so it is ground level!!!!!!

MT why did you laugh at him????;;;;       "The guy in building permits laughed me off the phone," Grapin says. He was told it's a treehouse and not built to any code.""""


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## fatboy (Oct 11, 2011)

Another one of those WOW! moments.


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## BSSTG (Oct 11, 2011)

Just sprinkle it. It'll be ok

BS


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 11, 2011)

> MT why did you laugh at him????;;;; "The guy in building permits laughed me off the phone," Grapin says. He was told it's a treehouse and not built to any code.""""


 I thought he said "tree stand" ops


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## brudgers (Oct 11, 2011)

Ok, this hits close to home...go to Google maps and zoom in on *8621 Kerry Lane Springfield Virginia *[actually in Fairfax County]

The small structure to the west of the house is the "treehouse" my father built between 1972 and and 1974.

It's still standing no doubt because of its extreme over-engineering.

Foundation consisted of a pair of parallel 4' deep trenches filled with large rocks and tamped clay soil in which were embedded four 8-10 foot sections of "surplus" telephone pole...rocks and telephone poles all hauled in the back of a 1971 Chevy Greenbrier [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Greenbrier#1969-1972_Chevelle_Greenbrier]

The entire super-structure was built of hand selected redwood lumber - many hours were spent helping to unstack and restack down at the lumber yard.

Back then, I don't think you needed a permit.:devil


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## Darren Emery (Oct 12, 2011)

Ok - am I the only one that thinks calling that a "treehouse" is a stretch?  That looks like a detached accessory structure to me.  Under 200 square feet, exempt from building permit, but still goverened by zoning regulations.

I'm not usually for "more government" - but I see why zoning has a problem with this one...


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## jim baird (Oct 12, 2011)

I would agree with the permits guy, but owner should have been advised to ckeck with zoning.  Corner lots here are regarded as having two "fronts".

I think dumb is as dumb does, despite the nice looking job.


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## cda (Oct 12, 2011)

I think I would go hunting for other tree houses in the city, to see if the city is enforcing evenly


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## gbhammer (Oct 12, 2011)

This is the perfect example as to why communication between departments is crucial. There is no excuse for what they put that family through. NONE

The guy who laughed in that building department and sent the man on his way to a multi-thousand dollar mistake should have been held accountable.

It is no wonder that we building officials have a bad reputation, and big government over and over again proves the public right to mistrust us.

Sorry all, but this is the kind of thing that gets my goat every time, and it has been an up hill battle to remove these kinds of communication barriers in my county. For the most part we have had a lot of success.


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## permitguy (Oct 12, 2011)

I agree, gbhammer.

Of course, I believe this is why the zoning department should be limited to one person with one 8 1/2 X 11 sheet of regulations (14 point font minimum) and given 1/10th the time for plan review since they only have to look at a couple of sheets as compared to *real* plan reviewers.   

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


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## gbhammer (Oct 12, 2011)

permitguy said:
			
		

> I agree, gbhammer.Of course, I believe this is why the zoning department should be limited to one person with one 8 1/2 X 11 sheet of regulations (14 point font minimum) and given 1/10th the time for plan review since they only have to look at a couple of sheets as compared to *real* plan reviewers.
> 
> BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


mmmh mmmh  that sounds more like a recipe for disaster/dictator. The Utopian society by Mr. Planning and Zonning BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

permitguy is Muddy's still around?


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## TJacobs (Oct 12, 2011)

I'm with Darren on this one.  Permits might not be required for a playhouse, but usually there are some location regulations that should be reviewed to avoid this kind of publicity.


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## gbhammer (Oct 12, 2011)

TJacobs said:
			
		

> I'm with Darren on this one.  Permits might not be required for a playhouse, but usually there are some location regulations that should be reviewed to avoid this kind of publicity.


Oh I agree completely which is why when you receive a call about whether a permit is required; you ask a lot of questions. You don't -

"The guy in building permits laughed me off the phone," Grapin says. He was told it's a tree house and not built to any code.

Once you start talking to other departments you begin to learn what the red flags are even if you don't know the details.


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Oct 12, 2011)

gbhammer said:
			
		

> This is the perfect example as to why communication between departments is crucial. There is no excuse for what they put that family through. NONEThe guy who laughed in that building department and sent the man on his way to a multi-thousand dollar mistake should have been held accountable.
> 
> It is no wonder that we building officials have a bad reputation, and big government over and over again proves the public right to mistrust us.
> 
> Sorry all, but this is the kind of thing that gets my goat every time, and it has been an up hill battle to remove these kinds of communication barriers in my county. For the most part we have had a lot of success.


We are in daily contact with our Planning Department, however, due to the variance of application and interpretation of the zoning regs, we no longer offer a one stop shop information center.  I have my opinions about the process, and wish there was more consistency, but as things exist today, we have too many irregular shaped lots which leads to too many non-nonsensical variations in the zoning regs.


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## permitguy (Oct 12, 2011)

> mmmh mmmh that sounds more like a recipe for disaster/dictator. The Utopian society by Mr. Planning and Zonning BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


I forgot the most important part.  The zoning department should report to the building official.  If you can't convince the building official that the CO should be held up because they planted 79 trees instead of 80, then you don't get to enforce it!  Building officials wouldn't allow a zoning dictator.   



> permitguy is Muddy's still around?


Ummmm, what is Muddy's?  I'm in the south burbs.


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## ICE (Oct 12, 2011)

cda said:
			
		

> I think I would go hunting for other tree houses in the city, to see if the city is enforcing evenly


That would make him a real popular guy huh.

I had a re-roof sheathing inspection where I told the contractor that he couldn't put shingles on a 1" pitch roof.  He did it anyway so I refused to final the job.

The contractor scoured the area looking for bootleg roofs.  After he found 12, he turned them in for work without permits.

The contractor brought in a letter from the owner stating that the roof pitch is in fact 2" and greater. The shingles stayed put with another inspector's final approval.  The contractor didn't pursue his complaint on the 12 bootleg roofs.


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## tbz (Oct 13, 2011)

This is why one moves to a place with minimum 12 ac. zoning.  Build what you want were you want.

The first thing out of the building department should have been call zoning, heck some these towns have restrictions on how the trash cans are to be kept.

As to taking it away, sell it on ebay, someone will buy it..........................


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## Mac (Oct 13, 2011)

In smaller jurisdictions, one person wears all the hats - building, zoning, signs, etc etc.

Thankfully NY State allows us to exempt tool and storage sheds and playground equipment less than 144 sq. ft. associated with single family dwellings.

So no permit required, no review, have a nice day.


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## karmann33 (Oct 13, 2011)

The gentleman in the buiding dept should at the very least directed him to the zoning dept for their opinion and then washed his hands of it. Even if a permit isn't required I direct them to zoning in these situations to cover my own arse. Then if it's permissible by zoning have at it champ.


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## Builder Bob (Oct 13, 2011)

BSSTG said:
			
		

> Just sprinkle it. It'll be okBS


What seasoning would you like?? Pepper, salt, garlic?


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## gbhammer (Oct 13, 2011)

Ummmm, what is Muddy's?  I'm in the south burbs.

It is or was a cafe/slash book store at 2200 Champa.


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Oct 13, 2011)

Turns out I may know one of the Planners in the Fairfax County Planning Department...small world, and somehow, I am no longer surprised by their decision.  Consistency isn't necessarily virtuous, but it is preferred by many.

All three Bob...sprinkle to taste.


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## Alias (Oct 13, 2011)

jim baird said:
			
		

> I would agree with the permits guy, but owner should have been advised to ckeck with zoning. Corner lots here are regarded as having two "fronts".I think dumb is as dumb does, despite the nice looking job.


I agree Jim as to checking with other depts.  I field a lot of calls and visits from homeowners about where they can put a fence, how high a fence, how big of a shed, etc.  Because of these calls, I periodically stick a 'friendly reminder' in the water bill outlining some of the city's code requirements.

Sue


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## Alias (Oct 13, 2011)

Mac said:
			
		

> In smaller jurisdictions, one person wears all the hats - building, zoning, signs, etc etc.


I am almost at this point.  My main title is 'building department' + planning assistant + code enforcement + weekend airplane refueler + tune in tomorrow.   

I had a business owner in yesterday asking about putting a repair shop into a C-1 (retail commercial) building.  I referred her over to planning but told her that I didn't think it could be done at that location due to zoning.  I got a kudo today from planning for getting the zoning & general plan correct.  Business owner will be working to get a use permit for that use at that location.  It sure is easier when everyone communicates.

Sue

It's a small town, after all.........


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## Architect1281 (Oct 14, 2011)

Let the municipality write the violation

let them place a lien on the property

leave it there

if and when financing or sale is pending

remove the violation

clear the lien - proceed


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## permitguy (Oct 14, 2011)

It depends on the jurisdiction.  I used to work for one that would do much more than place a lien and let you keep it there.  If you refused to abate a violation, you'd end up in court.  If you were found guilty and still refused to abate the violation, you'd end up in jail.  I never saw anyone go to jail there, but I saw several with suspended sentences (usually two weeks or so) pending violation abatement and successful completion of probation with no further citations.


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## Mule (Oct 14, 2011)

Just because it is built around a tree does not make it a tree house. In my opinion it is an accessory building.

There wasn't enough questions asked and probably not enough information provided. A lot of times people here what they want to here and not what is actually being said!

Gotta be careful on these kind of issues!


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## Architect1281 (Oct 18, 2011)

True to ask questions. many times I get calls and answer the question asked, problem is that the wrong question was answered correctly,

If I ask why they want that info it usually provides quite a different response.

On hectic days with short responses I occasionally feel like I might not be providing the best service.


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## Yankee (Oct 18, 2011)

I can't help but think that the homeowner knew very well that isn't a "tree house". I suppose now I am getting to skeptical, seein' as how I am both zoning and building.


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## Alias (Oct 19, 2011)

Yankee said:
			
		

> I can't help but think that the homeowner knew very well that isn't a "tree house". I suppose now I am getting to skeptical, seein' as how I am both zoning and building.


Yankee -

I'll have to agree with you on this one.

Sue


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## Frank (Oct 19, 2011)

In Virginia this is exempt from the building code.  Planning and Zoning is a cat of a different color

Virginia Construction code section 102.3 exemptions item 4 "Nonmechanized playground or recreational equiipment such as swing sets, sliding boards climbing bars jungle gyms sckateboard ramps and similar equipment where no admission fee is charged for its use or admittinance to the areas where the equipment is located."


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