# learning the code



## jwelectric (Dec 15, 2012)

I don’t read anything on this site but the electrical stuff. In doing so I have seen many posts where a code official has said how they have to teach the electrical contractor what is written in the code. Some of these posts left the thought that it was a game of us against them.

Would anyone like to share a story of where it was the electrical contractor that was doing the teaching? I know that over my career that I have had many discussions with inspectors that were mistaken in their thinking.

I have always said that when a contractor and inspector disagree it is a golden opportunity for someone to learn something.


----------



## cda (Dec 15, 2012)

The way I see life from my vast years of life experience is

I have learned a lot from contractors and some have learned a little from me.

Sometimes through  the school of hard knocks and sometimes just over a good cup of Starbucks.

Just depends on the company


----------



## Glenn (Dec 15, 2012)

jwelectric said:
			
		

> I have always said that when a contractor and inspector disagree it is a golden opportunity for someone to learn something.


Two big thumbs up to that.

Not an electrical story, but I will still share.

When I first became and inspector I did not have any commercial roofing experience.  Of course, as the newbie inspector, I was "given", quite gleefully from the other inspector, all the re-roofing inspections.  While completely confident in residential applications and products, I was not familiar with all the single ply systems and other built-up systems.  I found myself only a few months into the job on top of one of our very tall and large hotels as the roofing inspector.  I was nervous and tried to pretend that I knew what I was doing...I half way did.  The contractor that met me looked like an alligator from spending his entire life on rooftops.  We got talking...he saw through me...I was humble...he was mentor-like.   We spent about an hour on the roof, maybe more, as he talked and talked and taught and taught.  I asked and asked and listened and listened.

He had been roofing in that area for over 30 years, and he pointed across the horizon around all sides of this tall hotel telling me about all the different systems on all the different roofs we could see.

It was an experience I will never forget.  He probably had no idea how much he impacted my career that day, not only in teaching me technical information, but in showing me how positive the interaction between contractor and inspector can be when egos aren't involved.


----------



## jar546 (Dec 15, 2012)

I performed an electrical inspection on an IT room that was not elevated, had no drop ceiling either.  I quickly pointed out that they were not in compliance with 645.10 to the dismay of the contractor.  The next day I got an email from the electrical engineer whose previous job was that of a union electrician.  I remembered him from those days.  We went back and forth until I read the code book again and realized he was right.  645 is optional, sort of an all or nothing section.  The entire installation was compliant with chapters 1-4 and they did not need to use any of 645 for this installation.  We had a meeting at the job site so I could take the time to reinspect and verify that they did not take advantage of 645 in any way.  It was a great meeting and as usual, I was humbled.

I eat humble pie every now and then and I am not ashamed.

I always tell contractors who don't agree with me to please feel free to prove me wrong by showing me in the code books how what they did is compliant.  The end result is that one of us will learn something and if I am the one who learns something then I will be happy that I did and appreciate their effort with zero hard feelings.


----------



## fatboy (Dec 15, 2012)

My electrical inspectors have learned most of what to look for when inspecting P.V. systems, from some very knowledgeable, skilled installers. They were not ashamed to admit it, just took advantage of the opportunity to learn. Get it where you can...............


----------



## tmurray (Dec 17, 2012)

I think mistakes and misconceptions happen on both sides of the counter. I am luck in that the jurisdiction I deal with has very honest and knowledgeable contractor for the most part when compared with some of the folks on this forum. If I'm not willing to admit mistakes and learn from them how can I expect others to do the same? Also, anyone in the construction industry that says they've never done or been wrong is lying, this includes inspectors.


----------



## rnapier (Dec 17, 2012)

I take great pride in my work as an inspector and the reputation it has earned me. I am very greatful to everyone who has pointed out a mistake I was making so that I can continue to improve. There is a little joke I tell when I encourage contractors to question inspectors, I tell them inspectors make mistakes. We are not gods. Only demigods.


----------



## jwelectric (Dec 22, 2012)

Five days and six replys. I suppose that some could take this to mean that there are many electrical inspectors that already know it all and have no room for learning any thing more.

to those who did reply I thank you


----------



## ICE (Dec 22, 2012)

jwelectric said:
			
		

> Five days and six replys. I suppose that some could take this to mean that there are many electrical inspectors that already know it all and have no room for learning any thing more.to those who did reply I thank you


The awful truth is revealed...we're mostly a-holes...thanks for that


----------



## gfretwell (Dec 22, 2012)

As long as NFPA changes the code every 3 years there will always be plenty to learn.

You can actually learn a lot in some of these discussion groups if you follow the code sections along as they come out and do a little reading on your own.


----------



## jwelectric (Dec 23, 2012)

ICE said:
			
		

> The awful truth is revealed...we're mostly a-holes...thanks for that


 You are welcome but remember that is a personality trait not an educational trait. I often in my old age wonder if life is true for everyone or is it just parts of life. For example;

Electricians are people.

Inspectors are people.

It seems that for the most part these people get certified in their trade and try to learn no more. They become complicate in their employment.

In my old age when the body starts failing I go see my doctor more often. He is people. I pray to God that he does not have the mentality of electricians and inspectors for if he does I am sure to die before my time.

My Grandpa always said, “it don’t matter what you are doing in this world be the best at it. This will show your true charter.”


----------



## Daddy-0- (Dec 23, 2012)

We take it a step further and invite the contractors to come train us with presentations. Several times a year we have reps come in from companies like Simpson, Superior Walls, Isonene, ACI, Generac etc. We get CEU credit and we all get to learn from each other. We pay it back by providing the local inspectors and contractors with code update training every three years when the new code is adopted.


----------



## Daddy-0- (Dec 23, 2012)

I have also learned a ton from the older inspectors in the office as well as from contractors in the field. We have one great forman that will do his own framing inspection the day before he calls it in. He will write his list on a stud in the kitchen. We have learned by comparing his list to mine. Often he will call me and say, "please add _______ to your list. You should have seen that."

As a relatively young inspector who is also doing combination inspections, I am always open to discussion and opportunities to learn.


----------



## pyrguy (Dec 23, 2012)

I learn something almost every day. Especially in PV with all the changes and new equipment. Almost every application for a permit has something different, sometimes good some times not.


----------



## 480sparky (Dec 23, 2012)

I tend to have to teach inspectors what's in the book.

Inspector: "You need to change this"

Me: "Why?"

I: "It's against the Code."

M: "Really? What code?"

I: "The NEC."

M: "What year?"

I: "2011."

M: "Hmm.  You must have a different issue than me.  Perhaps you could go out to your truck, get your copy, and show it to me in your book."

I: "I don't have my book with me, it's back at the office...."

M: "OK, here's my copy."

I (10 minutes later): "I guess you're right...."


----------



## jwelectric (Dec 24, 2012)

Sparky, you the man

Merry Christmas


----------



## mtlogcabin (Dec 24, 2012)

When we quit learning from each other, contractors, inspectors, DP's then we are becoming arrogant and lazy. I learned a long time ago that no one knows everything about everything and those of us that inspect multiple disciplines need all the help we can get.

 We do not do electrical in this jurisdiction but we do educate the electrical contractors about seismic requirements for their installations since the state electrical inspector does not do it. We get that " but the electrical inspector passed it" yes but seismic is in the building code and you have to meet that code also


----------



## mark handler (Dec 24, 2012)

The day you stop learning is the day you die.

As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light of meaning in the darkness of mere being.

C.G. Jung


----------



## jeffc (Dec 24, 2012)

Several nice things about this site are:

Very few posts are overtly disrespectful,

Very few participants are arrogant,

Everyone can see what communication styles are persuasive.


----------

