# More grounding and bonding CEE and H2O



## jar546 (Nov 10, 2010)

If you have a CEE to rebar in the footing and there is a copper water pipe that feeds the structure I have a question.....................

Do you still have to bond to the water pipe within 5' of where it enters the foundation?

Notice my choice of words....


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## raider1 (Nov 10, 2010)

jar546 said:
			
		

> If you have a CEE to rebar in the footing and there is a copper water pipe that feeds the structure I have a question.....................Do you still have to bond to the water pipe within 5' of where it enters the foundation?
> 
> Notice my choice of words....


Simple answer is yes.

250.50 requires all grounding electrodes that are present to be used.

If the water pipe doesn't qualify as a grounding electrode then it must still be bonded in accordance with 250.104(A).

Chris


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## raider1 (Nov 10, 2010)

I should add that if you are bonding in accordance with 250.104(A) that bond does not need to occur within 5' of the entrance of the pipe.

Chris


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## jar546 (Nov 10, 2010)

I concur with your opinion.  Was looking for other opinions on this.  I get slack from the ECs when I enforce it this way.  (the right way)


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## Jobsaver (Nov 10, 2010)

jar546 said:
			
		

> I concur with your opinion.  Was looking for other opinions on this.  I get slack from the ECs when I enforce it this way.  (the right way)


It depends on whether or not the copper is sleeved. 250.52 (A) (1) Metal Underground Water Pipe.

A metal underground water pipe *in direct contact with the earth *for 3.0m . . .


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## jar546 (Nov 10, 2010)

Water pipe not sleeved except where it goes through the foundation.  Assume the H20 supply meets the definition of a grounding electrode.


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## Jobsaver (Nov 10, 2010)

I believe in this circumstance, the pipe should be bonded within five feet of either side of the foundation through which it enters the structure


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## chris kennedy (Nov 10, 2010)

I agree with Jeff and that other Chris.



> 250.50 Grounding Electrode System.All grounding electrodes as described in 250.52(A)(1) through (A)(7) that are present at each building or structure served shall be bonded together to form the grounding electrode system. Where none of these grounding electrodes exist, one or more of the grounding electrodes specified in 250.52(A)(4) through (A)(8) shall be installed and used.
> 
> Exception:  Concrete-encased electrodes of existing buildings or structures shall not be required to be part of the grounding electrode system where the steel reinforcing bars or rods are not accessible for use without disturbing the concrete.


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## Jobsaver (Nov 10, 2010)

raider1 said:
			
		

> I should add that if you are bonding in accordance with 250.104(A) that bond does not need to occur within 5' of the entrance of the pipe.Chris


I revise to bonding on the exterior, or, within five feet of the foundation wall on the interior.

250.52 (A) (1) Metal Underground Water Pipe. . . . Interior metal water piping located more than 1.52m (5 ft.) from the point of entrance to the building shall not be used as a part of the grounding electrode system . . .


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## raider1 (Nov 12, 2010)

Jobsaver said:
			
		

> I revise to bonding on the exterior, or, within five feet of the foundation wall on the interior.250.52 (A) (1) Metal Underground Water Pipe. . . . Interior metal water piping located more than 1.52m (5 ft.) from the point of entrance to the building shall not be used as a part of the grounding electrode system . . .


If the water pipe is not an electrode then the bonding requirements of 250.104(A) do not require that the connection to the water piping system be within 5' of the entrance to the building.

Chris


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## Jobsaver (Nov 12, 2010)

jar546 said:
			
		

> Water pipe not sleeved except where it goes through the foundation.  Assume the H20 supply meets the definition of a grounding electrode.


Chris. I am assuming the H2O supply meets the definition of a grounding electrode.


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## raider1 (Nov 12, 2010)

Jobsaver said:
			
		

> Chris. I am assuming the H2O supply meets the definition of a grounding electrode.


Then 250.52(A)(1) applies. The quote that you used was my comment in regards to bonding of water piping systems that don't qualify as an electrode.

Chris


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## peach (Nov 20, 2010)

Most incoming water services don't qualify as an electrode... how many of you also have problems with the grounding of the low volt systems?


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## chris kennedy (Nov 20, 2010)

peach said:
			
		

> Most incoming water services don't qualify as an electrode... how many of you also have problems with the grounding of the low volt systems?


What kind of problems are you seeing? Didn't the 08 250.94 make it idiot-proof?


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## peach (Nov 21, 2010)

we're not under 08 .. so no, it's not idiot-proof.  Some of our projects are still under 96.


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