# Check these stairs out



## JayHawkInspector (Jan 5, 2011)

I'm posting these photographs of a set of stairs to see what my fellow code professionals think. I don’t want to say what I think as not to influence anybody thoughts. All I want is some honest opinions and observations. Thanks in advance.

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## JayHawkInspector (Jan 5, 2011)

I'll answer any questions anybody has about what they don't observe.


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## Coug Dad (Jan 5, 2011)

What is supporting the intermediate landing?


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## peach (Jan 5, 2011)

maybe they'll be better when they are done?


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## pyrguy (Jan 5, 2011)

Best example of "structural air" I've ever seen.


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## texas transplant (Jan 5, 2011)

sky hook system?


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## cboboggs (Jan 5, 2011)

New experimental anti-gravity nails.


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## KZQuixote (Jan 5, 2011)

Non Treated structural 1X2 furring strips.

Somebody's gonna hate doing the drywall, spacers against the outside walls and tight against the framing on the inside.


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## rktect 1 (Jan 5, 2011)

You go down first, I'll wait up here.  Forever.


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## steveray (Jan 5, 2011)

Never mind the stairs...whats holding up those joists???  stringer attachment, landing attachment, but hey, at least they didn't overcut the stringers!


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## Frank (Jan 5, 2011)

Risers dont meet 4 inch sphere rule.

Are the risers equal or is that allowance for floor finish?

Structural furring strips?

I trust this is an intermediate step where teh supporting construction and framing connectors are pending installation.


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## jar546 (Jan 5, 2011)

All that I can say is that:

You must be in Pennsylvania with a building association member who did that work


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## Forest (Jan 5, 2011)

How about remove and try again.I hope you did not chance a return trip up them.


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## Pcinspector1 (Jan 5, 2011)

Missing I-joist hangers, lower set of stringers do not reach the unsupported 2x4 platform, fire blocking between stringers and wall?,

only one nail in the temporary steps on the ends, third stringer may need to be installed depending on the span?

Lets see the rest of the story!

PC1


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## jpranch (Jan 5, 2011)

How about adding a center stair stringer / carrage? 2X spanning 3' flat??? I don't think so.


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## Yankee (Jan 5, 2011)

how many died?


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## Francis Vineyard (Jan 5, 2011)

Met with a contractor last Monday doing a demo and remodel; called me out when he saw this; the landing joist are nailed to the floor joist! Appears these fellas went to the same school of levtiation.

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## Inspector Gift (Jan 5, 2011)

Jay... calm your horses!   LOL.  They're only "temporary stairs"...!

;^ )


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## righter101 (Jan 5, 2011)

Stair comments?

Are these going to an attic?????


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## Pcinspector1 (Jan 5, 2011)

righter101

Don't poke a lying dog with a stick!

Francis,

At least the stairs in picture #3 have got a 50 year warrenty?

pc1


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## Coug Dad (Jan 5, 2011)

IG---"temporary" until they fall down?????


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## Francis Vineyard (Jan 5, 2011)

pc1,

LOL, wish I had made that comment when I saw it then.


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## Bootleg (Jan 5, 2011)

More wood required.

Less beer.


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## Daddy-0- (Jan 5, 2011)

Did you walk down them to get those pics? Potential Darwin award winner if you did????


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## GHRoberts (Jan 6, 2011)

Does anyone want to run the numbers on the stairs and provide some proof that the stairs are unsafe? (I am going to ignore the untreated wood fastened to the concrete. That is a prescriptive issue.)


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## tbz (Jan 19, 2011)

Jayhwak & Francis Ive been waiting for specific comments other than remarks and have not seen any, so I will follow up with this.

1. Till this day I can't seem to get my mind around how many people really have no clue how to build stairs and that they waste vasts amounts of money on materials trying when it is cheaper to buy a set from a wood stair supplier.

  For the record I don't build wood stairs we only do metal, and have priced many a wood stairs, a set of stairs for that project Jayhawk would run $325.00 each in pine closed stringers, my point being garbage in garbage out.

2. The landing from what I can see seems to have 1/2" flake board and not 3/4" sub-floor, not sure there, but not good here.

3. Not sure how they are closing in the risers for 4" sphere requirement but someone commented on no center stringer.  Well, they might not need one, If they plywood the backs of the risers or put cross bottom joist no center stringer would be required.

4. Here they would require that Pressure treated lumber be set to the walls with anchorage then hangers and the 2x4 for the landing I believe need to be Min. 2x6, I could be wrong there, just never seen them used like that before.

5. As for the really bad top cuts, loss of landing attachments and just less than good workmanship I believe others have covered that issue.

3. Here they would require that Pressure treated lumber be set to the walls with anchorage then hangers and the 2x4 for the landing I believe need to be Min. 2x6, I could be wrong there, just never seen them used like that before.


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## Francis Vineyard (Jan 20, 2011)

tbz said:
			
		

> Jayhwak & Francis Ive been waiting for specific comments other than remarks and have not seen ....


 Tom,The story behind my pictures is an architect bought this old house and attempted to renovate it himself. After realizing being in over his head he hired a couple of contractors and fired them over the course of 3 years for taking too long. Finally hired a knowledgeable contractor who invited me to see what he had taken over and wanted my take on what he should do. Since it’s not my money to spend my answer was what do you want to do? He’s going to replace the joist with a 3’ landing cantilevered 9’ back under a knee wall, remake the stairs, etc.  Usually a good contractor will have a better fix than the minimum. Daddy-0- Do I get credit for wearing my hard hat?
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## DRP (Jan 21, 2011)

Francis, I'm curious about the thinking here. Are the stringers and imposed loads hanging from this cantilever or do you see the stringers supporting the overhanging landing? Not saying either wouldn't work just thinking it through.


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## Francis Vineyard (Jan 21, 2011)

DRP, the problem is the landing shown in the pictures is not cantilevered, it was a floor supported at both ends, when the floor joist was cut to make the stairway; the floor joist became an end beam so to speak held up by the stringer. 

For me these pictures among many give evidence for the need to prescribe minimum stair design. 

Hope this answered your question.


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## RJJ (Jan 21, 2011)

Isn't it amazing what we find in the field!


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## fireguy (Feb 12, 2011)

You all missed the point.  The stairs are built like that to keep those pesky inspectors on the ground floor where they belong.


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