# Another poll



## ICE (Aug 26, 2012)

I am curious to know what other jurisdictions are doing.  This is only about electrical service upgrades.

When I first became an inspector, I required that the GEC be run to the water main within five feet of the entrance to the building on all service upgrades.

The official AHJ policy was that the water pipe can be bonded anywhere and there is no requirement to go to the water main.

Trouble is, I was a NFG and nobody told me.

The reasoning is that the water main could be plastic. (How lame is that?)

The fallacy is that....well you figure it out

Soon enough several contractors complained to the chief electrical inspector.

The policy changed to match the corrections I was writing.

Years later a new CEI changed the policy back to bonding the water pipe anywhere.

When I asked the CEI about that, I was told that I was not allowed to talk to him or the other electrical engineers.

The reason behind the ban had nothing to do with the question but there I was, cut off.

Years later another new CEI is here and there hasn't been any discussion to change the policy.

At least they are talking to me again.


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## rnapier (Aug 27, 2012)

If the water pipe is a grounding electrode than it must be within 5' of entering the building according to the NEC, but if it is a plastic water main entering the building it is not an electrode and can be bonded anywhere.


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## rnapier (Aug 27, 2012)

I was getting lazy NEC 250.52A for lectrode and 250.104A for water pipe.


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## Francis Vineyard (Aug 27, 2012)

We enforce the existing building code; before the 1993 edition the water pipe could have the GEC more than 5 ft. where it enters the building and the 1971 edition required it to be supplemented; is permitted with the service upgrade.

Of course as the case may be if the code was not enforced correctly back then and will require at least two rods.

Francis


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## north star (Aug 27, 2012)

*$ $ $ $*

We would [ typically ] require the 2 ground rods with an approved

GEC installed at a service upgrade.

*& & & &*


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## Mac (Aug 27, 2012)

It's customary here to install a jumper across the meter if the GEC is clamped 'downstream' of the meter.


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## rnapier (Aug 27, 2012)

Here they bond around the water meter regardless of which side the the GEC is connected.


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## Span (Aug 27, 2012)

Panel upgrade needs two grounding rods near panel as close as possible because grounding rods are to give lightening strike service riser shortest distance to go back to earth.

Old house no grounding rod or ufer or any other grounding systems, therefore it use under ground water line for grounding purpose.

New panel use ufer or rod as grounding no matter water service line is metal or plastic still needs to bond it at water main shut off. hose bibb bonding are not acceptable because the house might go some sort of remodeling and might accidently sever the grounding path.


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## Dennis (Aug 28, 2012)

The bonding of a water pipe is different then connecting the gec to the water pipe.  If there is 10' or more of metal underground water pipe coming into the building then that piping is an electrode and must be connected within 5' of where it enters the building.  If there is plastic coming in to the building and metallic water piping in the structure then you can connect anywhere on the copper lines to bond the plumbing.  In some cases there may be a water meter in the building and that may require a bonding jumper from the line side of the meter to the load side with the GEC connected to the line side of the meter.


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## Yankee (Aug 28, 2012)

Why is the 5' important? Is that for convienience, or what?


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## Francis Vineyard (Aug 28, 2012)

Yankee said:
			
		

> Why is the 5' important? Is that for convienience, or what?


The NEC commentary: "The intent of this rule is to terminate the grounding electrode conductor ahead of any items such as water meters, filters, or nonmetallic pipe fittings.” 

The IRC makes references with the statement: "Interior metal water piping located more than 5 feet from the entrance to the building shall not be used as a conductor to interconnect electrodes that are part of the grounding electrode system."

Interesting however the 2011 NEC deleted this 5 ft. requirement without comment but it is still in the 2012 IRC that references the 2011 NEC.

Francis


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## Gregg Harris (Aug 28, 2012)

Francis take a look at NEC 2011 250.(68)© it was relocated


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## Francis Vineyard (Aug 29, 2012)

Gregg, thanks!

I forgot to look in the IRC appendix.

Francis


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## steveray (Aug 29, 2012)

Here.....any time you replace ANY part of the service (meter can, SE cable, etc...upgrade or repair) we ask for grounding and bonding to be compliant....Clean, tight connections, water meter jumped, if rod(s) are used then two need to be there,  no splices in GEC, etc......I have never seen the hot to cold jumper (in this part of the world)...makes perfect sense, I have just never seen it.....


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## Gregg Harris (Aug 29, 2012)

Francis Vineyard said:
			
		

> Gregg, thanks!I forgot to look in the IRC appendix.
> 
> Francis


Glad to be of service. I will be here all week.


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## Dennis (Aug 29, 2012)

Yankee said:
			
		

> Why is the 5' important? Is that for convienience, or what?


If plastic is installed somewhere in the run of plumbing pipe you would lose the grounding electrode.  Not as likely to loose it with the connection within 5' of where the metal pipe enters the building


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## Yankee (Sep 5, 2012)

Thanks, that sure answers my question!


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