# The long way around



## ICE (Mar 5, 2014)

The job is a service upgrade.  It is mounted over a hole in the wall and the conductors come through the back.  I wrote a correction stating that this can't be done.





http://www.flickr.com/photos/97859466@N05/12939916124/ [/URL]

The contractor did this.  The hole behind the cabinet is still there.







http://www.flickr.com/photos/97859466@N05/12939336074/ 

There is a new hole in the wall behind this J-box.






http://www.flickr.com/photos/97859466@N05/12939329234/

Wet location wire nuts?

They didn't forget the obligatory caulk violation.






http://www.flickr.com/photos/97859466@N05/12939340074/ 

It's not like I wasn't clear with my corrections.  Some people just can't get to compliance without taking two steps backwards.


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## Alias (Mar 12, 2014)

Doesn't look like they marked the circuits.  Is the box even plumb?

Sue


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## michaelj (Mar 12, 2014)

Can I ask for code section why this can't be done?


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## ICE (Mar 12, 2014)

michaelj said:
			
		

> Can I ask for code section why this can't be done?


Okay by me.....does anyone else have an objection?


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## Rick18071 (Mar 12, 2014)

2008 NEC 312.2 1/4" gap required between wall and box.


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## michaelj (Mar 12, 2014)

ICE said:
			
		

> Okay by me.....does anyone else have an objection?


Well where is the code section, or do I have to say please?


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## Dennis (Mar 12, 2014)

michaelj said:
			
		

> Well where is the code section, or do I have to say please?


There is no electrical code that the install violates in terms of the wiring entering the back of the box, afaik however there is probably a building code that won't allow holes to be there unsealed.


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## michaelj (Mar 12, 2014)

Dennis said:
			
		

> There is no electrical code that the install violates in terms of the wiring entering the back of the box, afaik however there is probably a building code that won't allow holes to be there unsealed.


That was my question was why the conductors could not enter the back of the box as long as they are below the live parts in side the box.


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## ICE (Mar 12, 2014)

NMC can't be in a wet location.  The space between the cabinet and the wall can't be sealed off.  The integrity of the wall must be such that water can't get in.  In some cases the old cabinet is left in the wall and is now a pull box.  Many times there are splices either in the old cabinet or in the wall cavity if the old cabinet was removed.

I'm not all that good with finding section numbers.


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## north star (Mar 12, 2014)

*~ = ~ = ~*







> "Well where is the code section, or do I have to say please?"


Section R703  & Table N1102.4.1.1 [ see "Shafts,  Penetrations"   ]in the `12 IRC,   ...are good places to start !

*~ = ~ = ~*


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## Dennis (Mar 12, 2014)

ICE said:
			
		

> NMC can't be in a wet location.


  I have never ever seen that called in that situation but again I have never seen it done like that.  I have often come out of the siding into a wp disconnect for an ac with just an nm connector.  IMO, that is not a good call especially since you can seal partially around the panel to prevent water issues.  Seriously how wet will that wire get and how often- not ever would that cause an issue.  The sealing of the holes is definitely an issue and that is why around here they allow a 2" pvc nipple and sleeve all the wires thru that- one clean penetration.  Of course that is not compliant either but it seems everyone does it.  IMO, this section on NM and wet location has been taken to the extreme and it needs some work in the NEC.


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## Dennis (Mar 12, 2014)

Think about this issue with NM in a raceway, I don't know why you mention NMC- I have never seen it, is it really an issue in certain installs?  If so then NM cable is installed in panelboards outside should be subject to the same rules but it is not.  I have seen outdoor panel have a lot of condensation in it just as raceways would.  If a raceway is installed so that it could drain then why not allow a vertical run with NM in it?  I am thinking about attacking this issue in the next code cycle.

I can just see it now-- circuit breakers must be listed for wet location because they are outdoors.  LOL

Seriously the code does need work on this issue


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## Gregg Harris (Mar 12, 2014)

Dennis said:
			
		

> Think about this issue with NM in a raceway, I don't know why you mention NMC- I have never seen it, is it really an issue in certain installs?  If so then NM cable is installed in panelboards outside should be subject to the same rules but it is not.  I have seen outdoor panel have a lot of condensation in it just as raceways would.  If a raceway is installed so that it could drain then why not allow a vertical run with NM in it?  I am thinking about attacking this issue in the next code cycle.  I can just see it now-- circuit breakers must be listed for wet location because they are outdoors.  LOL
> 
> Seriously the code does need work on this issue


I would agree no prohibition as stated. NMC is listed for dry, moist, or corrosive atmosphere exsposed or concealed.


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## Dennis (Mar 12, 2014)

Gregg Harris said:
			
		

> I would agree no prohibition as stated. NMC is listed for dry, moist, or corrosive atmosphere exsposed or concealed.


Yes I know NMC is listed as such but I doubt that was what was used. I have never seen it or knew anyone who has used it.  May be a regional thing


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