# Sidewall sprinkler heads / obstruction



## Steve S (Jan 12, 2019)

Hello, hope all is well for everyone. I'm new here and my name is Steve. I'm a 3rd year Sprinkler fitter apprentice . 

I saw this the other day in a basement so please lmk what you guys think ? All help is greatly appreciated .

Obstruction yes or no ?  Sidewall sprinkler heads/line in a basement and a 4" fdc line running in front of the 1-1/2" sidewall line but lower and flush with the sidewalls. It's all exposed piping.


----------



## Steve S (Jan 12, 2019)

I don't know how to post pics


----------



## cda (Jan 12, 2019)

Welcome

Two ways to post

Become a paying/ supporting member of the forum and upload pictures

Or make the picture a link and post the link

We would like your support and the cost is very little compared to the vast knowledge you tap into


----------



## cda (Jan 12, 2019)

Restate the obstruction please

Sounds like it is an obstruction 

Is that how the plans show to install all the pipe???


----------



## cda (Jan 12, 2019)

Spray pattern of a sidewall

http://www.vikingcorp.com/sites/default/files/databook/sprinklers/spraypatterns/061492.pdf


----------



## cda (Jan 12, 2019)

Not near 13 till Monday so can’t look for back up


----------



## cda (Jan 12, 2019)

How far in front of the sidewall is the four inch line??


----------



## Steve S (Jan 13, 2019)




----------



## Steve S (Jan 13, 2019)




----------



## Steve S (Jan 13, 2019)




----------



## Steve S (Jan 13, 2019)




----------



## Steve S (Jan 13, 2019)

Any help would be greatly appreciated 
Thanks


----------



## cda (Jan 13, 2019)

Just answering the four inch pipe location:

I think though not pretty, it is ok as far as sidewall location, in relation  to the four inch.


What brand and model is the sidewall??????


----------



## cda (Jan 13, 2019)

My question as an inspector is

Is the wood above, in the last picture, fire resistive treated???? 


If not than the fire sprinkler protection is wrong, because of that.

And rethinking, would have to look at 13, but I think the sidewall is to far down from the actual ceiling.

There may be bigger problems than the four inch question.


----------



## Steve S (Jan 13, 2019)

cda said:


> Restate the obstruction please
> 
> Sounds like it is an obstruction
> 
> Is that how the plans show to install all the pipe???




This particular job the drawings don't work, it's more of a pipe and protect as you go. Since the job started the designer was in over his head and left it up to the guys in the Field. Not one part of the prints ever worked bc something or other ..


----------



## cda (Jan 13, 2019)

Steve S said:


> This particular job the drawings don't work, it's more of a pipe and protect as you go. Since the job started the designer was in over his head and left it up to the guys in the Field. Not one part of the prints ever worked bc something or other ..[/QUOT
> 
> 
> 
> Not good at all





Not good at all


----------



## Steve S (Jan 13, 2019)

cda said:


> Not good at all




Yes I agree and everyone else does as well, but in the end it will be right .


----------



## cda (Jan 13, 2019)

cda said:


> My question as an inspector is
> 
> Is the wood above, in the last picture, fire resistive treated????
> 
> ...





so what are the answers to these questions????


and what brand and model is the sidewall???


----------



## cda (Jan 13, 2019)

I think most sidewall are listed for smooth ceilings only!!!!

Which without 13, can not define, but I do not think that building basement qualifies


May say something like     """""""""""a continuous ceiling free from significant irregularities. lumps, and indentations"""""""""""""


http://www.tyco-fire.com/TD_TFP/TFP/TFP120_08_2018.pdf


----------



## cda (Jan 13, 2019)

I am thinking as an ahj, I would write something along the line as installation does not meet NFPA 13,

System not approved,

Re pipe and call for re inspection.

Plus I would not put my name or the companies name on this install, especially when you walk into court and try to defend it,  after the building burns to the ground.


----------



## Steve S (Jan 13, 2019)

cda said:


> so what are the answers to these questions????
> 
> 
> and what brand and model is the sidewall???



*Viking Fire Sprinkler 5.6K Chrome Horizontal Sidewall SR 155F | VK104*



I was told that in fact the wood is fire resistant Everywhere else  down there has uprights but in that particular area it has side walls bc of obstructions.  I came months after that section was complete.

Myself personally I don't think it is an obstruction but I think it flirts with obstruction, it's that fine line that I want to learn about more.  I'm so glad I found this forum bc I'm dealing with pepeop who Kno codes well and has more experience than me ..


----------



## cda (Jan 13, 2019)

Steve S said:


> *Viking Fire Sprinkler 5.6K Chrome Horizontal Sidewall SR 155F | VK104*
> 
> 
> 
> ...





All of the wood???


----------



## cda (Jan 13, 2019)

Does not say, but says to install per 13,

Which may say sidewalls are normally good for smooth ceiling only....


Plus cannot be more than  12 inches down from the ceiling!!


http://www.vikingcorp.com/sites/default/files/documents/033514_0.pdf


I would not approve it for many reasons.


----------



## cda (Jan 13, 2019)

Some info for future use::

https://sprinklerage.com/sidewall-sprinklers-ceiling-obstructions/


----------



## cda (Jan 13, 2019)

If you send your email to this group, they put on some great classes, plus may have a chapter in your area::


https://nfsa.org/chapters/

https://nfsa.org/training/


https://nfsa.org/member-resources/


Send your email to the person closest to you, and let them know, that you would like to know about any future training::


https://nfsa.org/field-ops/


----------



## cda (Jan 13, 2019)

From 2016 NFPA 13;::







My non engineer opinion you do not have a smooth ceiling


----------



## Steve S (Jan 13, 2019)

As far as the FDC goes, do you guys see it as an obstruction regardless of how the branch line is ran? Considering the spray pattern it shouldn't be an obstruction, correct?  Can somebody go in depth about the 4-inch rule when it comes to sprinkler heads and obstructions? I would like to know other people's views that are more experienced. 

Knowledge is power, thank you everyone for your input so far.


----------



## Steve S (Jan 13, 2019)

cda said:


> If you send your email to this group, they put on some great classes, plus may have a chapter in your area::
> 
> 
> https://nfsa.org/chapters/
> ...





Excellent, would love to educate myself more and I will definitely reach out to them.


----------



## cda (Jan 13, 2019)

This book explains a lot of the standard in plain English/ non standard  talk::

https://catalog.nfpa.org/NFPA-13-Automatic-Sprinkler-Systems-Handbook-P15526.aspx

Even if you find a 2013 edition not much change in the basic stuff


----------



## cda (Jan 13, 2019)

Steve S said:


> As far as the FDC goes, do you guys see it as an obstruction regardless of how the branch line is ran? Considering the spray pattern it shouldn't be an obstruction, correct?  Can somebody go in depth about the 4-inch rule when it comes to sprinkler heads and obstructions? I would like to know other people's views that are more experienced.
> 
> Knowledge is power, thank you everyone for your input so far.




I think it is

Sprinkler has to be four inches away from a wall, ceiling, or similar

Will check, might only be so you can get a wrench on it.


The book says "dead air space" and "detrimental effect"

In the 2016 edition, if you are asking about 8.7.5.1.4.1

I take that to be an obstruction in front of the sprinkler, like a solid beam hanging from the ceiling.

But, 8.7.5.2.1.1 says apply the eighteen inch rule. Which is like the storage rule below sprinklers.
Does say an exception is three inch pipe or less,,,,,  which your set up does not meet.


----------



## cda (Jan 14, 2019)

I think the install has multiple problems!!!!


----------

