# Donuts



## jar546 (Jan 27, 2010)

Donut shop <50 occupant load.  They *do not make the donuts there* but they serve takeout, drive-thru & eat in seating.

Some have classified them as M, and some have classified them as B under 303.1 Exception 1.

I was surprised to hear of others using M which is why I am posting.

In my humble opinion, A-2 with the exception to B fits best due to this language in 303.1



> ...,for the *gathering *of persons for..........,*food or drink consumption*


It is not uncommon to have a packed house in the morning with people in line and all seats taken with people eating and drinking.  This is more of a restaurant style than if it was takeout only.

I vote for B

What has been your experience?


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## Code Neophyte (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: Donuts

Just did one exactly as you describe as a 'B'. (FWIW - after all, I am a "neophyte") :?


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## jim baird (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: Donuts

In our state we have to use NFPA 101 to determine occupancy.

NFPA 101 says that assembly occupancy <50 is to be classified as Mercantile.


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## globe trekker (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: Donuts

We have one in the works right now.   We classified it as  a "B".



.


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## rktect 1 (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: Donuts

Sounds like B.  Make sure they post max. occupant load and that they know they SHALL not exceed it.  Otherwise I believe you have the authority as AHJ to allow them a higher occupant load which will then make them your A-2  See 1004.2  The would be required to conform to those requirements.


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## Uncle Bob (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: Donuts

In Texas, Krispy Kreme and Shipley Donut shops are exempt; by order of the local Police Departments.  I could eat a dozen this morning.   

Uncle Bob


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## Pcinspector1 (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: Donuts

Jar,

Your OP sez, *take out, drive-thur and **eat in seating*. Here we call that a restaurant. A-2. But 303.1.1 allows it to be Groupe B. I think the occupant load should be posted 1004.3 since the 303.1.1 is under the "A" group which requires it to be posted.

Walmart is an "M"

Where I get my taxes done is a "B" unless the tax man's got a box of cake donuts with sprinkles on them, then its an "R" for "home sweet home" :lol:


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## cboboggs (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: Donuts

I agree "B".


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## High Desert (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: Donuts

An assembly occupancy with an occupant load of less than 50 is classified as a B occupancy.


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## brudgers (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: Donuts

The M versus B for small restaurants  is just one another aspect of "The Ick" suffering from NIHS.

Force a change of occupancy in a retail strip center...then you can more easily reject the plans.

That's "The Ick" way.


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## north star (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: Donuts

*Pcinspector1,*

*That's funny!  *  *      Seems like we all can relate to the sweet, round, artery clogging buggers!   *


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## Plans Approver (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: Donuts



> It is not uncommon to have a packed house in the morning with people in line and all seats taken with people eating and drinking.


Does anyone take into consideration (ask for designation of) the standing (waiting) space when determining occupant load? (Besides me.)


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## rktect 1 (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: Donuts



			
				Plans Approver said:
			
		

> > It is not uncommon to have a packed house in the morning with people in line and all seats taken with people eating and drinking.


Does anyone take into consideration (ask for designation of) the standing (waiting) space when determining occupant load? (Besides me.)

I do.  Not  good way to make friends.


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## kilitact (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: Donuts

The correct occupancy classification for some of these shops is mixed used, M and B. You have a store type use with bakery goods displayed on shelves for the costumers to choose from and take to the counter and pay for and take out. The other portion of the shop could have tables and chairs for sit down, similar to restaurant use. Indentifying the uses correctly can have a significant impact on occupant load for exiting, restrooms and mechanical, minimal impact on allowable height, area and chapter nine requirements.


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## Big Mac (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: Donuts

Standing room only can be kind of difficult to quantify.  I would agree, it is also possible that mixed use could drastically alter occupant load.  However, after having said all that, if the occupant load (correctly calculated) is less than 50, 'Use group 'B', per the code exception.  If over 50, Use Group 'A-2'.  If non-separated uses, you should always default to the most restrictive.


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## FredK (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: Donuts

B

As the standing room idea I don't but I do have problems with the calling it a "B" in some cases.

Example a small 845 sq ft yogurt shop came in and only wanted one restroom. That was based on the fact only 9 occupants (845/100).

Only thing was they are show chair seats and empty kitchen space and the register area plus available standing room.  Compounding the problem was and "outdoor seating" area showing 12 more spaces on the plumbing page. :roll:  :roll:

Said what the heck to the architect who wisely removed the outdoor area seating. How long the seating stay out????


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## north star (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: Donuts

*Fred,*

*That's purdy funny!   *  *    I  know you're not going to the ' sterotyped ' oriental language thingy are you?*


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## texas transplant (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: Donuts

UB,

Does that make it a "PD" use in Texas?   :roll:

Otherwise I vote B.


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## jar546 (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: Donuts



			
				FredK said:
			
		

> BAs the standing room idea I don't but I do have problems with the calling it a "B" in some cases.
> 
> Example a small 845 sq ft yogurt shop came in and only wanted one restroom. That was based on the fact only 9 occupants (845/100).
> 
> ...


Should have been a calculation based on use, not classification.  B does not automatically mean 100sq ft per person.  It is not an office.  Assembly with loose chairs and tables is how it could have been calculated as an example.  Providing of course there were loose tables and chairs.


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## FredK (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: Donuts

Jeff that's the way I wanted to do it.  The boss said otherwise.


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## JBI (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: Donuts

Fred - The boss was mistaken.


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## jar546 (Jan 27, 2010)

Re: Donuts

Here is the good part of the story.

I had a meeting with the architects on this one today and they gave me plans.  Guess what they are declaring it?

A2


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## Pcinspector1 (Jan 28, 2010)

Re: Donuts

Jeff,

Codes Department 1

Architects 0

Bottom of the 1st


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## north star (Jan 28, 2010)

Re: Donuts

*What was the Occupant Load submitted by the DP's ?*


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## brudgers (Jan 28, 2010)

Re: Donuts



			
				jar546 said:
			
		

> Here is the good part of the story.I had a meeting with the architects on this one today and they gave me plans.  Guess what they are declaring it?
> 
> A2


Standing room @ 1person per 5 square feet.

50 people = 250 square feet not counting staff.

Easy to do.


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## Big Mac (Jan 28, 2010)

Re: Donuts

I agree.  Use Group Classification for exiting has notheing to do with use group classification for toilet fixture count.

Any time there is seating where food and drink is served and consumed.  The plumbing fixture count is based on that use.


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