# Concept of Party Wall vs Fire Wall



## Glennman CBO (Dec 21, 2011)

2009 IBC. It appears from the party wall provision (section 706.1.1) for two buildings built up to a single lot line, that a party wall can be constructed on the lot line, separating the buildings, but no openings are allowed, and of course they need to be constructed for collapse on either side...etc.

Suppose you have the same lot line, but there is a fire wall built on each side of it, with the required rating, etc. Are openings still not allowed? (No this is not an anchor building in a mall).

In other words, it appears that it is only a party wall if it is built ON the property line (joint service), but it is a fire wall if it is built on both sides of the property line. Openings are not allowed in party walls (on the property line), but are they allowed in a fire walls (built on each side of the property line)?

All comments are appreciated.


----------



## fatboy (Dec 21, 2011)

Table 705.8, 0'-less than 3', NP


----------



## Glennman CBO (Dec 21, 2011)

Thank you fatboy. That pretty much says it all. It wouldn't make sense to me to not allow openings in a party wall, but allow them in a fire wall where there are lot lines involved (not that the code always makes sense, but it does here).


----------



## BSSTG (Dec 21, 2011)

Greetings,

I've had an issue with this section for awhile now. It's sure not a practical rule in an urban environ. Many challenges pop up like how to deal with underground tunnels etc. Med centers where you walk out of a bldg through a doorway into another bldg. How in the heck is that realistic? I don't get it. Not having a historical perspective on commercial bldg codes I don't know how many of these scenarios have come to be that you see in Houston. I do know that they are common just from casual observation.

BS


----------



## Coug Dad (Dec 21, 2011)

Fire Walls - no openings with a fire separation distance of less than 3 feet

Party Walls - no openings

Have done many buildings with openings at the propertly line.  Worked out a joint use agreement filed against the titles for both properties.  The combined heights and areas were within the allowable.


----------



## Glennman CBO (Dec 22, 2011)

The problem I have is in dealing with a plans examiner that thinks that the fire wall is not at the exterior because there is another building against it. I explained to him that if the openings are not allowed without a building on the other side of the property line (at less than 3'), then how would they be allowed if there was another building there? The point is to protect the other building (or the buildings from each other). He finally sees the error of his ways. This board is handy for that.


----------



## fatboy (Dec 22, 2011)

Glad it worked out for you.


----------

