# Attic access



## Rio

We are doing an addition that will have a 4:12 roof. It ends up having about 24" clear vertical height from the top of the ceiling joists to the bottom of the roof rafters.  Per R807.1 we don't need to have an attic access as the vertical height in the attic is less than 30" however we want to have one anyway.  The addition is a master bedroom with a 2' wide x 10' long closet and a master bathroom.  We don't want to have the access in the bedroom for esthetic reasons and are thinking of putting it in the closet.  I don't think this will comply with being readily accessible but since we don't even need one would think it wouldn't matter.  Any opinions on this would be appreciated.  Also any opinions on whether an attic access generally in a closet (not a walk in as there's plenty of room in a typical walk in closet) would be allowed for future reference as this issue comes up repeatedly.

R807.1 _ Buildings with combustible ceiling or_

_roof construction shall have an attic access opening to attic_

_areas that exceed 30 square feet (2.8 m2) and have a vertical_

_height of 30 inches (762 mm) or greater. The vertical height_

_shall be measured from the top of the ceiling framing members_

_to the underside of the roof framing members._

_   The rough-framed opening shall not be less than 22 inches_

_by 30 inches (559 mm by 762 mm) and shall be located in a_

_hallway or other readily accessible location. When located in a_

_wall, the opening shall be a minimum of 22 inches wide by 30_

_inches high. When the access is located in a ceiling, minimum_

_unobstructed headroom in the attic space shall be 30 inches_

_(762 mm) at some point above the access measured vertically_

_from the bottom of ceiling framing members. See the California_

_Mechanical Code for access requirements where mechanical_

_equipment is located in attics._


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## steveray

Attic stairs.....


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## Mac

I think you can put a non-required access to a non-attic anywhere. Fine with me....


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## steveray

Mac said:
			
		

> I think you can put a non-required access to a non-attic anywhere. Fine with me....


I would agree with that!


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## globe trekker

Rio,

Do you want the access to the non-attic actually in the "new" Master Bedroom

/ closet area or do you want it for use to the rest of the house as well?

.


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## Alias

Mac said:
			
		

> I think you can put a non-required access to a non-attic anywhere. Fine with me....


Closet would be fine for me.  I have a garage conversion going right now.  They are using front 3/4 of the single car garage to enlarge the living room.  Plans show attic access in the middle of the new LR ceiling.  Homeowner asked if they could put it in the storeroom (back of garage) and I said fine.

Sue


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## fatboy

Not 30" clear in this particular attic space? Access not required, do whatever you want.


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## Kevin Turner

Ok I'm going to nibble on the bait. It is not a required attic access, however it is access to the attic so how many would require a switched light for storage?


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## steveray

Kevin Turner said:
			
		

> Ok I'm going to nibble on the bait. It is not a required attic access, however it is access to the attic so how many would require a switched light for storage?


Depends on what the ceiling joist were designed for.......


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## MtnArch

I was under the impression that ceiling joists are only designed/prescripted for ceiling loads - NOT floor loads (which is what attic storage would be)?


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## RJJ

Boy! I seem to remember a Tread on this topic! Attic Stairs!:beatdhrs


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## TimNY

I'm just posting 'cause I want to say I was part of the attic access thread.



Well, maybe I'll contribute a little.  I don't care where the access is, provided there is no equipment in the attic.  If there is equipment, I would require the access such that the largest piece of equipment can be removed.  That doesn't preclude closets, but that would be my only concern.


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## Rio

No attic stairs on this on, there's attic access in the existing house and thanks for all the input everyone.


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## codeworks

I have always been of the undersdtanding that attic access in a clothes closet is not acceptable, because in a fire situation a couple of scenarios occur which hamper a fire fighters access. first, it is not in a readilyt accessible location, it has to be "sought out" in smoke with tanks on ones back, not good. Secondly, getting into ther scuttle hole in a closet with tanks on your back, you might not make it past the door opening. Guages are going to bind you up. Alot of the stuff in the code really has to do with "what if situations". I was trained and always ionspected not to allow access to attics in closets. I was on an inspection the other day and saw on in a walk in  closet, it didin't dawn on me 'till later it was wrong, (this will be pull down stairs, still, it's in a closet, is it as big deal) I'm new in the field again after working as an electrician for years, I'm hoping we can get this corrected. Any thoughts on this one? Thanks in advance


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## fatboy

If the access meets the requirements of the code, doesn't matter where it is, from a code perspective. Might not be good........ but........


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## ICE

TimNY said:
			
		

> I'm just posting 'cause I want to say I was part of the attic access thread.
> 
> Well, maybe I'll contribute a little.  I don't care where the access is, provided there is no equipment in the attic.  If there is equipment, I would require the access such that the largest piece of equipment can be removed.  That doesn't preclude closets, but that would be my only concern.


If there is a furnace in the attic, we don't allow the access to originate in a bedroom or it's closet unless it is a listed assembly for that purpose.


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## Francis Vineyard

ICE said:
			
		

> If there is a furnace in the attic, we don't allow the access to originate in a bedroom or it's closet unless it is a listed assembly for that purpose.


Please clarify a furnace that's listed for the purpose of an attic access through the bedroom or closet?


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## ICE

Well I guess what I meant to say was that if there is a furnace in the attic, the attic access can't be located in a bedroom or bedroom closet unless that access is a listed assembly.  I don't have the code book here so all I can say is that it's in the code.


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## fatboy

Similar to a bedroom door opening to a mechanical room.......


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## RJJ

If the appliance is in the attic would this not be considered a separate floor? Would there be a difference if in a craw space or basement? What is the real intent of the code on this one?


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## alora

MtnArch said:
			
		

> I was under the impression that ceiling joists are only designed/prescripted for ceiling loads - NOT floor loads (which is what attic storage would be)?


Table R802.4(2).



> TABLE R802.4(2), CEILING JOIST SPANS FOR COMMON LUMBER SPECIES, (Uninhabitable attics with limited storage, live load = 20 psf, L/Δ = 240)


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## Big Mac

I'm not too concerned about the location of the attic access if it isn't even required.  Section 1209.2.  Attics without storage are those attics where the maximum clear height between the joists and the rafter is less than 42".  Table 1601.1, footnote i.

Access not required.  No storage (per code definition).  Where's the problem?


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## Francis Vineyard

Table 1607.1 IBC or Table R301.5 is for ceiling uniform load with and without required storage dimensions not for when attic access is required;

*R807.1 Attic access. *Buildings with combustible ceiling or

roof construction shall have an _attic _access opening to _attic_

areas that exceed 30 square feet (2.8 m2) and have a vertical

height of 30 inches (762 mm) or greater. The vertical height

shall be measured from the top of the ceiling framing members

to the underside of the roof framing members.

*1209.2 Attic spaces. *An opening not less than 20 inches by 30

inches (559 mmby 762 mm) shall be provided to any _attic _area

having a clear height of over 30 inches (762 mm). A 30-inch

(762 mm) minimum clear headroom in the _attic _space shall be

provided at or above the access opening.


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## Big Mac

1.	R807.1 Attic access. Buildings with combustible ceiling or

roof construction shall have an attic access opening to attic

areas that exceed 30 square feet (2.8 m2) and have a vertical

height of 30 inches (762 mm) or greater. The vertical height

shall be measured from the top of the ceiling framing members

to the underside of the roof framing members.

1209.2 Attic spaces. An opening not less than 20 inches by 30

inches (559 mmby 762 mm) shall be provided to any attic area

having a clear height of over 30 inches (762 mm). A 30-inch

(762 mm) minimum clear headroom in the attic space shall be

provided at or above the access opening.

The whole point is (according to the original posting)it doesn't have a height of more than 30".  I tried to bold and underline the appropriate phrases, but when I then cut and pated it into this forum, I lost both the bold and the underlines.


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## Big Mac

Okay I may need to back track a bit here.  According to the original posting the height from the top of the ceiling framing is 24" (<30").  However he also states that the code requires the 30" measurment to be taken from the bottom of the ceiling framing members.  Depending on the size of the ceiling framing memebers the measurement may be 30" or >.  If so, an attic access may be required.  If that is the case and an attic access is required, it needs to be placed in a readily accessible location.  Inside a 2' deep closet doesn't qualify.  If it was a walk-in closet and I could still get the required height above the access opening, I would accept it.


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## Pcinspector1

Drop ceiling?

pc1


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## Francis Vineyard

There are worst places; over top stair landing, over the bath vanity, step out of the bedroom balcony with a ladder and remove the slide in gable vent above the window.


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