# Kitchens



## linnrg (Aug 23, 2016)

At what point would you require commercial grade kitchen equipment - In other words when would you start to require triple sinks, food prep sinks, hand wash sinks, floor drains, food prep quality surfaces, etc.

I am dealing with a congregate residence that has proposed a "Residential Kitchen" when they will have up to 16 occupants plus staff sharing this kitchen.  They do not want a fire suppression hood.  They do not propose grease traps.  All residents will be there full time and sharing the meals and preparation.  It is not a frat house but that is sort of similar.

Similar question could be about the laundry areas.  They are proposing just one washer and one dryer.


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## cda (Aug 23, 2016)

Is it a rent a room by the week

Is it a job shack for a business that houses thier employees there

Will your health dept inspect the kitchen


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## linnrg (Aug 23, 2016)

transitional housing - tenants stay 30 days or more - good question about the health department.


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## cda (Aug 23, 2016)

Should have asked 

Is the city saying it is a business ??

What kind of cooking appliances ??


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## JBI (Aug 24, 2016)

Equipment that is listed and labeled as 'commercial' requires a hood and/or suppression.
Equipment that is listed and labeled as 'residential' only requires the hood/suppression when installed in a commercial kitchen.
I know lots of families with more than 10 children that have grandparents and others living with them. Are you implying in your post that they should be required to install hoods and suppression in their homes simply because there are more than an arbitrary number of people living under one roof?


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## steveray (Aug 24, 2016)

If it is not IRC, then it is "commercial"....IMO...I believe the IMC has provisions for domestic ranges in commercial settings and local health (or sewer) may govern equipment beyond what we do...


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## tmurray (Aug 24, 2016)

Our code is equally ambiguous, leaving it up to local AHJs to make the determination as to what is commercial. I would agree with JBI for the equipment listing, but another way to think about it is if the products of the kitchen are being sold. If they are not sold, then it is not commercial equipment because it is not used for commercial purposes. Ultimately it depends on the scenario and equipment used. In this situation I would likely see this as non-commercial, depending on the type of equipment used.


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## Francis Vineyard (Aug 24, 2016)

If your state or local health dept. provides definitions for commercial kitchen may consider using theire guildelines to make a determination. Also there's guidance in the IMC commentary.




*Agency 5. Department of Health 
Chapter 421. Food Regulations
12VAC5-421-10. Definitions.
Part I. Definitions, Purpose and Administration *

"Food establishment" does not include:



An establishment that offers only prepackaged food that is not time/temperature control for safety food;


A produce stand that only offers whole, uncut fresh fruits and vegetables;


A food processing plant, including those that are located on the premises of a food establishment;


A kitchen in a private home if only food that is not time/temperature control for safety food is prepared for sale or service at a function such as a religious or charitable organization's bake sale if allowed by law and if the consumer is informed by a clearly visible placard at the sales or service location that the food is prepared in a kitchen that is not subject to regulation and inspection by the regulatory authority;


An area where food that is prepared as specified in subdivision 4 of this definition is sold or offered for human consumption;


A kitchen in a private home, such as, but not limited to, a family day-care provider or a home for adults, serving 12 or fewer recipients; or a bed-and-breakfast operation that prepares and offers food only to guests if the premises of the home is owner or owner-agent occupied, breakfast is the only meal offered, the number of guests served does not exceed 18, and the consumer is informed by statements contained in published advertisements, mailed brochures, and placards posted at the registration area that the food is prepared in a kitchen that is, by this chapter, exempt from this chapter;


A private home that receives catered or home-delivered food; or


Places manufacturing packaged or canned foods that are distributed to grocery stores or other similar food retailers for sale to the public.

For the purpose of implementing this chapter, the following are also exempt from the definition of a "food establishment" in this chapter, as defined in §§ 35.1-25 and 35.1-26 of the Code of Virginia:



Boarding houses that do not accommodate transients;


Cafeterias operated by industrial plants for employees only;


Churches, fraternal, school and social organizations and volunteer fire departments and rescue squads that hold dinners and bazaars not more than one time per week and not in excess of two days duration at which food prepared in homes of members or in the kitchen of the church or organization and is offered for sale to the public;


Grocery stores, including the delicatessen that is a part of a grocery store, selling exclusively for off-premises consumption and places manufacturing or selling packaged or canned goods;


Churches that serve meals for their members as a regular part of their religious observance; and


Convenience stores or gas stations that are subject to the State Board of Agriculture and Consumer Services' Retail Food Establishment Regulations (2VAC5-585) or any regulations subsequently adopted and that (i) have 15 or fewer seats at which food is served to the public on the premises of the convenience store or gas station and (ii) are not associated with a national or regional restaurant chain. Notwithstanding this exemption, such convenience stores or gas stations shall remain responsible for collecting any applicable local meals tax.

"Food processing plant" means a commercial operation that manufactures, packages, labels, or stores food for human consumption and provides food for sale or distribution to other business entities such as food processing plants or food establishments. Food processing plant does not include a food establishment.


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## ADAguy (Aug 24, 2016)

Now that gives a level of clarity.

On another note, this sounds as a cross between a Hostel and a group home.
Are any management provided services offered: social activities, outside visitors, trips, etc.?
It appears to be an "on the cheap" operation, what of ADA compliance?
You indicate "residence" is this a single family residence conversion? What is the zoning?
Risk management is a concern with regards to type of equipment purchased/installed.
What of bathrooms, community (down the hall) or private?
Is it a single story?


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## steveray (Aug 24, 2016)

Look up the definition of commercial cooking appliance in the IMC.....no mention of money or public or anything like that....

COMMERCIAL COOKING APPLIANCES. Appliances
used in a commercial food service establishment for heating
or cooking food and which produce grease vapors, steam,
fumes, smoke or odors that are required to be removed
through a local exhaust ventilation system. Such appliances
include deep fat fryers; upright broilers; griddles; broilers;
steam-jacketed kettles; hot-top ranges; under-fired broilers
(charbroilers); ovens; barbecues; rotisseries; and similar
appliances. For the purpose of this definition, a food service
establishment shall include any building or a portion thereof
used for the preparation and serving of food.


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## mtlogcabin (Aug 24, 2016)

There are two suppression systems for residential equipment that I am aware of
http://www.icc-es-pmg.org/Listing_Directory/pdf/PMG-1122.pdf
http://www.icc-es-pmg.org/Listing_Directory/pdf/PMG-1293.pdf

We have had them installed in R-3 "group homes" similar to what you are describing. Pretty simple, not expensive and when you explain the benefits and how most home fires start in the kitchen we have not had any push back.


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## tmurray (Aug 24, 2016)

steveray said:


> Look up the definition of commercial cooking appliance in the IMC.....no mention of money or public or anything like that....
> 
> COMMERCIAL COOKING APPLIANCES. Appliances
> used in a commercial food service establishment for heating
> ...



This only applies to appliances in a "commercial food service establishment" though, right? Is there a definition for that, because again, I see the intent being for selling food. Not a kitchen at the office where people heat up leftovers from home.


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## JBI (Aug 24, 2016)

tmurray said:


> If they are not sold, then it is not commercial equipment because it is not used for commercial purposes.



We have a facility in my home county that provides meals for homeless and impoverished people. They do not 'sell' food, but prepare it in a full size (otherwise) 'commercial' kitchen. 
Same for most houses of worship that have kitchens for preparing large banquets for parishioners, not 'sold' but still prepared in large quantity.


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## mtlogcabin (Aug 24, 2016)

When you have cooks preparing meals for the consumption of others you have a food service establishment. When you have residents active in preparing meals for themselves and other residents then it is not a food service establishment. I would still push for the residential suppression systems or some type of occupancy sensor tied to the fuel source to reduce the possibility of burners being left on and unattended. Call it a trade off for not insisting on a full blown Type I hood and suppression system. Is this facility licensed by the state? If it was in my state the amendments would only allow the IRC to be used for a licensed facility limited to 16 people.


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## steveray (Aug 24, 2016)

tmurray said:


> This only applies to appliances in a "commercial food service establishment" though, right? Is there a definition for that, because again, I see the intent being for selling food. Not a kitchen at the office where people heat up leftovers from home.



Read the definition again....especially the red part....


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## linnrg (Aug 24, 2016)

The submittal included one standard residential cook stove, one sink, one domestic dishwasher, one residential clothes washer and one residential clothes dryer. and they requested a residential non type I or II hood.  Their future plan shows the addition of 4 or 5 more refer/freezer units in the area.

As usual it is a facility that is a change of use and the project has low funding so they want to get the most out of it without the costs.
The facility is for recovery of addicts (heroin).  Up to 8 female and up to 8 male, staff during the day with training sessions.  The residents will eventually be discharged after successful transition. The 16 residents will do the food preparation for themselves (and I assume staff [up to 5] to since they are providing the  "in house" life skills training).  No mention of food sales.  I am asking the designer to nail down how many meals types of menus etc.  Of course our utility department is hopeful for a grease trap.

To me this system is like using a yugo to transport 16 people all at once when one trip with a small bus would be more appropriate.

I am going to state that I am going to require the hood with suppression.

As far as restrooms and showers that is covered.

In my area we have allowed churches and clubs to put in small kitchens that support their gatherings but restrict them by not allowing  grease and smoke producing type food prep.  Some of the churches have two stoves.  I have also allowed residential cook stoves under type I hoods.

Given the state of our society these days I expect that other BO's will see these same sort of facilities.


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## cda (Aug 24, 2016)

linnrg said:


> The submittal included one standard residential cook stove, one sink, one domestic dishwasher, one residential clothes washer and one residential clothes dryer. and they requested a residential non type I or II hood.  Their future plan shows the addition of 4 or 5 more refer/freezer units in the area.
> 
> As usual it is a facility that is a change of use and the project has low funding so they want to get the most out of it without the costs.
> The facility is for recovery of addicts (heroin).  Up to 8 female and up to 8 male, staff during the day with training sessions.  The residents will eventually be discharged after successful transition. The 16 residents will do the food preparation for themselves (and I assume staff [up to 5] to since they are providing the  "in house" life skills training).  No mention of food sales.  I am asking the designer to nail down how many meals types of menus etc.  Of course our utility department is hopeful for a grease trap.
> ...




So this is a business in a commercial building being converted to a R occupancy ??


Sounds like Type I hood and all the other plumbing things, which health should require


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## linnrg (Aug 24, 2016)

Yes a B occupancy to R-2, building has been a health club, doctors offices, etc in the past still has mens/womens showers (community and some single bathrooms).  It is not a SFR conversion. commercial zoning
2 story with lift
older non-compliant ada access


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## cda (Aug 24, 2016)

Sounds like they need to meet restaurant standards 
Like a restaurant in a hotel, that just gives away full breakfasts


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## north star (Aug 24, 2016)

*@ ~ @ ~ @*


Is the Zoning changing from Commercial to Residential use
in lieu of the "B  to  R-2" change of occupancy ?

This sure quacks like a Commercial enterprise !........Regardless,
the Kitchen F.O.G.  should still be captured.

Without some more specifics, ...not sure of the other ADA
requirements.......Has the Fire Dept. weighed in yet,  or are you
the designated Fire Dept. rep. ?


*@ ~ @ ~ @*


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## linnrg (Aug 24, 2016)

no zoning change just building use
yes FD is reviewing (no I am not the FM) and IFC 609 is being looked at.


BTW thanks to all who have been helping.


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## Francis Vineyard (Aug 24, 2016)

We have several of these facilities and just did another one last week.  It's an R-4; not regulated under the Health Dept. but under Social Services; no hood required.


*310.6 Residential Group R-4. *Residential Group R-4 occupancy shall include buildings, structures or portions thereof for more than five but not more than 16 persons, excluding staff, who reside on a 24-hour basis in a supervised residential environment and receive _custodial care_. Buildings of Group R-4 shall be classified as one of the occupancy conditions specified in Section 310.6.1 or 310.6.2. The persons receiving care are capable of self-preservation. This group shall include, but not be limited to, the following:

Alcohol and drug centers
Assisted living facilities
Congregate care facilities
Group homes
Halfway houses
Residential board and care facilities
Social rehabilitation facilities
*
310.6.1 Condition 1. *This occupancy condition shall include buildings in which all persons receiving custodial care, without any assistance, are capable of responding to an emergency situation to complete building evacuation.

*310.6.2 Condition 2. *This occupancy condition shall include buildings in which there are any persons receiving custodial care who require limited verbal or physical assistance while responding to an emergency situation to complete building evacuation.


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## north star (Aug 24, 2016)

*@ @ = @ @*


linnrg,

Can you please post the applicable Codes & Standards of your application.

Thanks !


*@ @ = @ @*


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## steveray (Aug 24, 2016)

B to R2 might be sprinklers too? Unless you found IEBC relief?


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## linnrg (Aug 24, 2016)

2009 IBC, IFC, IMC


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## ADAguy (Aug 24, 2016)

Interesting how each response brings more clarity to view, attempt to deceive?
They want to store their gold (clients) in a paper sack?
Can't have your cake and expect it to be properly cooked and stored on premise.
This has risk management and "accessibility" issues that must be addressed.
Do they expect to be self insured?
The use is obviously beneficial but requires the CUP (?) to invoke protections for the occupants.


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