# Restroom Travel Distance



## fatboy (Dec 1, 2009)

Ok, we have a new developement where the anchor store is also installing the fueling station, without restrooms.

It was identified at plan review that the travel distance for the fueling station kiosk to the store was over 500', that they need to provide restrooms at the liosk, or move it closer, to comply with 2904.2.1.

They have provided a drawing that shows the travel distance to be 504', from the door of the kiosk, to a mid-point in a foyer between the men's and womens restroom doors. They consider this to be the travel distance.

 I have maintained that the "path of travel" was from where one may be in the kiosk, to the most remote fixture in the store that may be need to be used, along a logical path. To the most remote fixture in either restroom it is another 24'. The kiosk interior, probably another 10' to the most remote point, so we're pushing 540'.

The applicant is asking me to allow this to happen, based on future platted pad sites that would easily make the 500'. I'm still saying no, but am curious if I'm just being one of those a$$hole officials that is being non-friendly to developement, by not ignoring that silly 500' "shall not exceed" prescriptive requirement.

What say ya'll?


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## vegas paul (Dec 1, 2009)

Re: Restroom Travel Distance

I probably wouldn't get excited over 500' vs. 540' (unless I really had to go!), but more importantly, is the distance measured along a path that actually is available to the user?  By that I mean, did the designer measure as the crow flies, or did he allow for vehicles actually parked in the paking lot, etc.?  I had a designer show that the fuel kiosk (Sam's Club) was less than 500' , however, he was measuring diagonally across a parking area.  When measured according to an actual palth it was over 700' !!!

By the way, the "future sites" the designer refers to might not work... The fuel kiosk has to be associated with the store that has the restrooms (same hours, etc.) otherwise closer restrooms (owned by individual tenants) may not be available when the fuel kiosk is open for business.


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## pwood (Dec 1, 2009)

Re: Restroom Travel Distance

to add to what vp was saying; is there an accessible path providing safe travel to and from the restroom? would not want anyone getting ran over while wheeling or dashing through  the snow to the bano~. make em build a complying restroom,your wife will appreciate it!


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## jar546 (Dec 1, 2009)

Re: Restroom Travel Distance

Could you defend your decision in court?

That is your answer.


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## RJJ (Dec 2, 2009)

Re: Restroom Travel Distance

No Fatboy! Not silly! Tell him to go to the appeals board or put in the bath room. I believe we will see more of these issues as Super Markets and Big Box stores want to have gas as an added use.

Have one near me in another ahj doing the same. Can't wait to see it finished. They have not provided bath rooms! Distance to the store is over 600'. I pop the question when they are finished! :lol:

The code is what it is!


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## Gene Boecker (Dec 2, 2009)

Re: Restroom Travel Distance

By anchor store do you mean as in a strip center or as in "covered mall?"  The travel for a covered mall is 300 feet.

And, as far as measuring is concerned, I've usually seen that done to the door of the restroom although if you go inside the room, I'd use the first WC - not the most remote.  Why make them go past a usable fixture?  Measuring from the most remote point inside the kiosk makes sense though.

Betting on the future pad development is a bit thin, I agree.  Why not split the difference and make them park  a half dozen porta-potties outside the front door?  Give them THAT choice and see what they pick..


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## jim baird (Dec 2, 2009)

Re: Restroom Travel Distance

Fatboy,

We had one of those done here.  They put a restroom into the little station hut, but no open or accessible to public.  I think it was 700' to the store itself and another 200 to the bano.

I know that whether these pump&pays have public BR has been a topic of discussion as well, but I think practicality demands at least one for the attendant.  Usually only one person attends.


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## fatboy (Dec 3, 2009)

Re: Restroom Travel Distance

Answers to the questions in no apparent order.

The first plan they submitted was as the crow flies, which was rejected quickly, the path they show now is sidewalk with curb-cut ramps, so it ias accessible.

I'm not buying the other future sites for those reasons, when and if they will build out, hours of operation conflicts.....

Anchor store, as in for the developement, it is a stand-alone structure.

The reason I feel the path of travel should be to the furthest fixture is that the furthest fixture may be the only one available at any given time.

Jeff poses the question I'm have been hung up on from the onset, and no, if I allowed this I wouldn't be able to defend it in court.

I'm going to reject their appeal to me, I don't think they would really stand a chance with our BOA, since by their own admission they are over 500' between the points they are measuring. A BOA cannot disregard the code requirement of 500', only rule on interpretations, the only thing I interpreted was what constitutes the "path of travel".

Furtunatelly I have my boss behind me.

Thanks for the replies!


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## vegas paul (Dec 3, 2009)

Re: Restroom Travel Distance

fatboy - is the anchor store and the fuel station the same company (e.g. Sam's Club) or are they claiming that the independent gas station can use the anchor store's restrooms just because of proximity?  I would DEFINITELY deny it if it were two different companies.


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## fatboy (Dec 3, 2009)

Re: Restroom Travel Distance

No, same company will own both the store and fueling station, but not the suggested future pad sites.


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## JBI (Dec 10, 2009)

Re: Restroom Travel Distance

fb - At least you're getting support from above. Not all of us are that lucky...


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## Gene Boecker (Dec 10, 2009)

Re: Restroom Travel Distance

So now I'm trying to figure out how the self-fuleing Costco station can have an attendant's cabin but no restrooms. . . . .


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## fatboy (Dec 10, 2009)

Re: Restroom Travel Distance

I was on the phone with the applicant again this morning, who was still asking for lenience on my interpretation. Said they had built them all over CO with nobody ever enforcing this requirement. He did finally ask about a porti-potty till the pad sites were built out. Told him the the porti didn't meet the code requirements for a restroom. Stuck with my original call, move it or install compliant restroom.

Yes, I am lucky that I have the support from above.


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## Rick18071 (Dec 10, 2009)

Re: Restroom Travel Distance

I had one of these. Made them put in a accessible restroom in the attenant's building. Went to get gas there two days after the c/o was issued, the rest room sign was gone, the door was locked, and the attenant said there is no restrooms.


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## fatboy (Dec 10, 2009)

Re: Restroom Travel Distance

Oh well, it was there when the C.O. was issued, you did your job.


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## JBI (Dec 10, 2009)

Re: Restroom Travel Distance

Rick - You'll have to bang them for the violation at their (annual?) Fire Safety Inspection.


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## pwood (Dec 10, 2009)

Re: Restroom Travel Distance



			
				\ said:
			
		

> .
> 
> I'm going to reject their appeal to me, I don't think they would really stand a chance with our BOA, since by their own admission they are over 500' between the points they are measuring. A BOA cannot disregard the code requirement of 500', only rule on interpretations, the only thing I interpreted was what constitutes the "path of travel".
> 
> ...


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## JBI (Dec 10, 2009)

Re: Restroom Travel Distance

Because water cascading down on you while you rush to the bathroom will somehow make the trip more bearable?  :lol:


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## Gene Boecker (Dec 10, 2009)

Re: Restroom Travel Distance

pwood, you're absolutely right about your position.  An appeal means that you both may not be interpreting the provision in the same way and you need a referee.  What they are asking for is a variance.  That's a whole separate issue although they often act the same.

jd, where is that water running down????

 :lol:


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## JBI (Dec 11, 2009)

Re: Restroom Travel Distance

Gene - Exactly!  

As Charlie Brown was quoted as saying: "Doing a good job around here is like wetting your pants in a dark suit, it gives you a warm feeling but nobody really notices." :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


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## Yikes (Dec 18, 2009)

Re: Restroom Travel Distance



			
				jar546 said:
			
		

> Could you defend your decision in court?That is your answer.


Jeff - I will be periodically checking Yahoo "Wierd News" for the lawsuit where the person did not make it to the toilet in time!


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