# Fire Apparatus Access Road



## Kao Chen (Aug 17, 2011)

2006 IFC, Section 503.2.3

How is a road with "all weather driving capabilites" defined? Is a hard surface, i.e. concrete or asphalt, required?

If a gravel road can be proved to be able to support the imposed loads of the largest fire appartus can this be considered appropriate?

Thanks for you input.


----------



## Frank (Aug 17, 2011)

This will be a AHJ call depending on local norms and conditions, in some cases a crushed stone base can be considered acceptable.

A locality with a number of unpaved roads is more likely to accept this than others without them.


----------



## Coug Dad (Aug 17, 2011)

Some jurisdictions will accept "grass-crete", a form of grass landscaping with imbedded supports.


----------



## fatboy (Aug 17, 2011)

We've accepted compacted road base as a temporary surface, but never permanant.


----------



## cda (Aug 17, 2011)

we require concrete, by admendment to the code


----------



## Builder Bob (Aug 17, 2011)

What does the neighboring jurisidictions allow ? It would be in your best interest to be consistant with neighboring jurisidictions..... Here we allow geotech with grass sod  -


----------



## Papio Bldg Dept (Aug 17, 2011)

Coug Dad said:
			
		

> Some jurisdictions will accept "grass-crete", a form of grass landscaping with imbedded supports.


This has been accepted in many jurisdictions around here, including ours.  It essentially is a grass lawn that can support the fire departments vehicles.


----------



## mark handler (Aug 17, 2011)

Papio Bldg Dept said:
			
		

> This has been accepted in many jurisdictions around here, including ours.  It essentially is a grass lawn that can support the fire departments vehicles.


----------



## mtlogcabin (Aug 17, 2011)

It has to support the weight of the fire fighting equipment which is basically the same as every other large truck on the road. We proposed this question to our public works department a couple of years back and the answer was it has to be built to city standards minus the paving requirement. Yes "grass-crete" was approved as an alternate for emergency vehicles only.


----------



## mark handler (Aug 17, 2011)

This Document from the Orange County Fire Authority Has Some Good Info

Their Interpretation of the Code

http://www.ocfa.org/_uploads/pdf/guideb09.pdf


----------



## cda (Aug 17, 2011)

How is a road with "all weather driving capabilites" defined?

support the wieght of the vehicle in snow, sleet or dark of night.


----------



## beach (Aug 17, 2011)

OCFA has great guidelines, I steal them all the time!

Personally, I don't like grasscrete, if there are no signage requirements, there is no way a captain will allow his engineer to drive on grass. If signage is required, they are never maintained or replaced when stolen or faded and your back to not driving on it. JMHO


----------



## permitguy (Aug 17, 2011)

> Personally, I don't like grasscrete, if there are no signage requirements, there is no way a captain will allow his engineer to drive on grass. If signage is required, they are never maintained or replaced when stolen or faded and your back to not driving on it. JMHO


Unless you have a good fire inspector that stays on top of these things.  

We require faded signs to be replaced, and we also show these on our preplans so the crews know they exist.


----------



## beach (Aug 17, 2011)

Looks like it works well for you...... not so much for us.


----------



## cda (Aug 17, 2011)

Yea that beach sand tends to blow over and obscure the pavers!!!


----------



## beach (Aug 17, 2011)

> Yea that beach sand tends to blow over and obscure the pavers!!!


Hehehehehe.........actually, after a few years, you can't tell it's grasscrete...it looks like a typical lawn. Our new truck weighs in at 76,000#'s and nobody wants to be the first to sink it to the axles......


----------



## Architect1281 (Aug 17, 2011)

Depends on the vehicle


----------



## peach (Aug 17, 2011)

depends on the FD, not just the vehicles...


----------



## FM William Burns (Aug 17, 2011)

We don't permit grasscrete either (maintenance v. snow) and our guys/girls won't go off paved surfaces


----------

