# Accessible/Type B condominiums



## pmarx (Dec 16, 2013)

We are in the process of designing a mixed use high rise building. The mid floors will be R-1 135 hotel rooms. I have no question about those. My question involves the 26 R-2 condominiums on the top 4 floors. These are only being designed as "shells" with common space features such as corridors, stairs, elevators, etc. The only construction that will be done under the (initial) building permit will be to construct demising walls to create quantities of units ranging per story from 8, 8, 6 and 4. as well as the doors into these units from the corridors. Design and construction of the units will be by others when the units are sold at some point in the future.

Can the code require that at least two of the future owners have their units designed and constructed as accessible?


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## pmarx (Dec 16, 2013)

PS- I realize that the title to my question is incorrect in that Type B units are not involved. Sorry but it doesn't appear I can edit a post.


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## khsmith55 (Dec 17, 2013)

Assuming an elevator building, all but one of the R-2 units will have to be Type B accessible and one will have to be Type A accessible.


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## Msradell (Dec 17, 2013)

khsmith55 said:
			
		

> Assuming an elevator building, all but one of the R-2 units will have to be Type B accessible and one will have to be Type A accessible.


Since these are going to be sold as shells instead of complete units isn't it up to the original purchaser what kind of accessibility they provide in the unit?  Wouldn't they be treated as a private residence?  If not how do you determine which one has to be Type A accessible and how do you impose that standard on the purchaser?  It seems like an unfair burden if they don't need that kind of accessibility.


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## mark handler (Dec 17, 2013)

Msradell said:
			
		

> Since these are going to be sold as shells instead of complete units isn't it up to the original purchaser what kind of accessibility they provide in the unit?  Wouldn't they be treated as a private residence?  If not how do you determine which one has to be Type A accessible and how do you impose that standard on the purchaser?  It seems like an unfair burden if they don't need that kind of accessibility.


Yes,  but all unit features installed need to be accessible. Doors and windows, ecetra


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## JBI (Dec 17, 2013)

Blocking in the walls, hallway widths, turning radii, etc. Sounds like a high end development, so providing the space should not be an issue.


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## steveray (Dec 17, 2013)

The need to propose a design that will meet the code....if that design changes when the fitout comes in, it still has to meet code...If the seller did not inform the buyer (sucks for us) but it does not change the requirements....


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## pmarx (Dec 17, 2013)

mark handler said:
			
		

> Yes,  but all unit features installed need to be accessible. Doors and windows, ecetra


For us to design compliant doors into the units and windows in the exterior walls isn't the issue. But as Msradell recognizes, it really seems an undo burden to require a private owner to have their unit designed to meet accessibility standards if they don't need them. Why is this situation any different from a privately owned and financed single family home having to be accessible? Just because there are a certain number of units that are served by an elevator?


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## pmarx (Dec 17, 2013)

JBI said:
			
		

> Blocking in the walls, hallway widths, turning radii, etc. Sounds like a high end development, so providing the space should not be an issue.


There won't be any walls or hallways or anything else except the demising walls between the units. They will be of varying sizes and overall configurations. Nothing in them until someone buys one and decides how they want their home layed out. The only control we have is where to put the front door and windows. Those aren't an issue.


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## steveray (Dec 17, 2013)

"Why is this situation any different from a privately owned and financed single family home having to be accessible? "

Because you are not building it to the IRC.....


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## mark handler (Dec 17, 2013)

The units are not SFD. They are attached. The units need, per code, to be type B. Any features you add need to be accessible or easily adaptable.  Removing windows and modifying the exterior may not be readily achievable. Adding blocking is an requirement for type b units


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## pmarx (Dec 17, 2013)

Subsequent to posting my question here, I revised my Google search and found this in a Q&A section at www.ada.gov:

Q. Does the ADA cover private apartments and private homes?

A. The ADA does not cover strictly residential private apartments and homes. If, however, a place of public accommodation, such as a doctor's office or day care center, is located in a private residence, those portions of the residence used for that purpose are subject to the ADA's requirements.

In the meantime I've also gone to the source and sent the question to technical assistance at the Access Board.


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 17, 2013)

The Type B units will apply to each apartment.

The Type A unit will be constructed when a client needs it or it is the last unit developed without a pre-sale prior to construction. If every unit is a pre-sale then a Type A cannot be forced upon a consumer. (might be wrong since the ACA ruling)

One permit to complete all unfinished condos will require one Type A unit

Individual permits for each dwelling unit identifying the owner of each unit would be Type B units.


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 17, 2013)

I believe it is a Fair Housing requirement


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## JBI (Dec 17, 2013)

As a practical matter, the original construction may be intended for condos, but without any of the features that define 'dwelling units' - bathrooms, kitchens, etc. they will not become 'dwelling units' until the build out phase by the subsequent buyers.

In the prospectus there should be an indication of the need to comply with all applicable Codes, Rules, Regulations and Standards.


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## JPohling (Dec 17, 2013)

sounds like a plumbing stack nightmare


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## steveray (Dec 17, 2013)

^^^^^^^^^Yep........

In pesponse to post #12.......ADA has no jurisdiction in a private dwelling.....the building code does, and therefore ANSI 117......If you are building to the IBC....


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## mark handler (Dec 17, 2013)

The owner and designer is responsible to comply with the Fair Housing Act. The Act requires seven basic requirements that must be met. Those Requirements are:

Requirement 1. An accessible building entrance on an accessible route.

Requirement 2. Accessible common and public use areas.

Requirement 3. Usable doors (usable by a person in a wheelchair).

Requirement 4. Accessible route into and through the dwelling unit.

Requirement 5. Light switches, electrical outlets, thermostats and other environmental controls in accessible locations.

Requirement 6. Reinforced walls in bathrooms for later installation of grab bars.

Requirement 7. Usable kitchens and bathrooms

It is not the Building departments role to enforce the Fair Housing Act.

If you install any of these items, make them comply. If you are not installing "kitchens or Baths", then you do not need to worry about the items.

this stuff is a no brainer.


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## Msradell (Dec 18, 2013)

This is directly from the HUD website under the Fair Housing Act:

_*Requirements for New Buildings*_

_*In buildings that are ready for first occupancy after March 13, 1991, and have an elevator and four or more units:*_

_*•Public and common areas must be accessible to persons with disabilities*_

_*•Doors and hallways must be wide enough for wheelchairs*_

_*•All units must have: ◦An accessible route into and through the unit*_

_*◦Accessible light switches, electrical outlets, thermostats and other environmental controls*_

_*◦Reinforced bathroom walls to allow later installation of grab bars and*_

_*◦Kitchens and bathrooms that can be used by people in wheelchairs.*_


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