# Building Permit for Fill



## jar546 (May 18, 2020)

If a state agency grants a permit for the installation of fill on a property(empty lot), what, if any part of the IBC/IRC would require a building permit?

I say there is not building permit in this case until they decide to build on it.


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## mtlogcabin (May 18, 2020)

I agree no permit required under the building code.
However if they are impacting a flood zone with the fill then another agency may require a permit.


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## classicT (May 18, 2020)

Depends on if the local AHJ has adopted Appendix J through their municipal codes.

Locally, even though the State (WA) does not adopt Appendix J, we do through our municipal code. This is done in partnership with our cohorts in planning, as it ties into their world (flood plains, protected environments/species, etc.).


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## Paul Sweet (May 18, 2020)

Environmental or zoning permits might be required - erosion & sediment control, managing stormwater to avoid creating a nuisance on adjacent properties, etc.


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## ADAguy (May 28, 2020)

Future use of site would require the backfill to certified and compacted if to be used for construction


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## e hilton (May 28, 2020)

ADAguy said:


> Future use of site would require the backfill to certified and compacted if to be used for construction


Only if used for structural (load bearing) purposes.  It might be a landscape area.  
The original post was a little unclear ... is it just a dumping area?   Does the land owner have a future development in mind?


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## Mark K (May 29, 2020)

We build on non compacted soil all the time.  This is why we hire geotechnical engineers.  The possibility that some unanticipated building will be located on the site is not a valid reason for requiring a building permit.

If code enforcement is based on what the building department thinks the owner might do we have real problems.  We will then see plan checkers and inspectors inventing rationales for whatever they would prefer.


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## ICE (May 29, 2020)

Mark K said:


> We will then see inspectors inventing rationales for whatever they would prefer.



Like it’s not happening now.


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## Mark K (May 30, 2020)

I was trying to be polite.  It would help if the inspector community would recognize that that was illegal.  Rather they should be enforcing the regulations.


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## jar546 (May 30, 2020)

In our case, I am on a barrier island and everything is built on pilings that go down 40-60 feet or more.  When they decide to pull a permit for construction, then we can plan check the soils.  Until then, the only permit needed would be if they municipality had an ordinance which should be under planning or zoning.  Not building.


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## steveray (Jun 2, 2020)

P&Z would handle it here so that you are not filling a floodway or wetlands or just steering all of your water to the neighbors property...


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## classicT (Jun 2, 2020)

Sounds like all parties here do not adopt Appendix J? Can anyone shed some light as to why you do not adopt it within your jurisdiction.



Ty J. said:


> Depends on if the local AHJ has adopted Appendix J through their municipal codes.
> 
> Locally, even though the State (WA) does not adopt Appendix J, we do through our municipal code. This is done in partnership with our cohorts in planning, as it ties into their world (flood plains, protected environments/species, etc.).
> 
> View attachment 6659


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## steveray (Jun 2, 2020)

CHIN are all we do in IBC....I guess to avoid conflict with the other agencies?


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## ADAguy (Jun 8, 2020)

Have found similar issues with old dams on private land and in the CA delta which is full of manmade pre-code islands.


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## Mark K (Jun 8, 2020)

On what basis would dams and manmade islands fall within the jurisdiction of the building department?  it is my understanding that in California a separate state agency would have jurisdiction  I  assume that it would be similar in other states.


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## Rick18071 (Jun 9, 2020)

Ty J. said:


> Sounds like all parties here do not adopt Appendix J? Can anyone shed some light as to why you do not adopt it within your jurisdiction



This is be a political question.


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## ADAguy (Jun 9, 2020)

Mark K said:


> On what basis would dams and manmade islands fall within the jurisdiction of the building department?  it is my understanding that in California a separate state agency would have jurisdiction  I  assume that it would be similar in other states.



Point made, dams impounding less than (x) acre feet are under local jurisdiction. (Think Stringfellow Acid Pits Superfund site in Jurupa with a DIY cutoff wall) Delta islands are a different animal.


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