# Egress through a bedroom.



## James75 (Nov 5, 2020)

Wanted to get some thoughts on means of egress in a existing residential single family home where there are two egresses are proposed and one goes through a bedroom. My feeling is that it should not be allowed. I know IBC it would not be allowed i believe.


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## TheCommish (Nov 5, 2020)

_Massachusetts require  that in single family home this is an emergence escape and rescue open in each bedroom, along with  2 door  off the main level. You can not pass from one bedroom to another to use  the EERO_


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## Rick18071 (Nov 5, 2020)

You only need 1 means of egress to comply to code. Other doors can be anywhere and any size.


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## cda (Nov 5, 2020)

James75 said:


> Wanted to get some thoughts on means of egress in a existing residential single family home where there are two egresses are proposed and one goes through a bedroom. My feeling is that it should not be allowed. I know IBC it would not be allowed i believe.



Ok what is the real question??

""means of egress in a existing residential single family home"""

What are they doing ?


James do you mind saying what you do for a living?? Are you an ahj, arch, contrac, other?? helps answer the questions sometimes


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## James75 (Nov 5, 2020)

TheCommish said:


> _Massachusetts require  that in single family home this is an emergence escape and rescue open in each bedroom, along with  2 door  off the main level. You can not pass from one bedroom to another to use  the EERO_


Thanks for your reply. This is not the case that you would be passing though  one bedroom to another. This is the secondary means of egress that you would have to get to by going through a bedroom.


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## cda (Nov 5, 2020)

James75 said:


> Thanks for your reply. This is not the case that you would be passing though  one bedroom to another. This is the secondary means of egress that you would have to get to by going through a bedroom.




Still trying to figure out why the question??

What are they doing??? Adding a bedroom??

Or existing situation, and you are wondering how it got approved??

Or???


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## classicT (Nov 5, 2020)

James75 said:


> Thanks for your reply. This is not the case that you would be passing though  one bedroom to another. This is the secondary means of egress that you would have to get to by going through a bedroom.


SFD only require a single means of egress (typically the front door). The secondary door is not a means of egress, just an exterior door.


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## James75 (Nov 5, 2020)

Rick18071 said:


> You only need 1 means of egress to comply to code. Other doors can be anywhere and any size.


You need two means of egress in Massachusetts


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## cda (Nov 5, 2020)

James75 said:


> You need two means of egress in Massachusetts




Will you post the wording for the requirement


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## cda (Nov 5, 2020)

If existing and not remodeling or adding on, what is the problem?


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## cda (Nov 5, 2020)

Is this it????




Dwelling units shall be provided with a primary and secondary means of egress in accordance with this section.  Each  means of egress shall provide a continuous and unobstructed path of vertical and horizontal egress travel from all portions of the dwelling to the  egress doors. The primary means of egress shall not require travel through a garage but the secondary means of egress may. The required egress doors shall open directly into a public way or to a yard or court that opens to a public way.

*NOTES: *

In multi-level dwellings, including but not limited to townhouses, split-level and raised ranch style layouts, the two separate egress doors may be located on different levels.
Where site topography prevents direct access at two remote locations to grade from the normal level of entry, the two separate egress doors may be located on different levels.


If so, this house does not have a front door and a back door????????????

And it gives you the garage as an approved exit.


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## James75 (Nov 5, 2020)

cda said:


> Ok what is the real question??
> 
> ""means of egress in a existing residential single family home"""
> 
> ...


Can your  2nd means of egress be through a bedroom in a residential single family home.


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## James75 (Nov 5, 2020)

cda said:


> If existing and not remodeling or adding on, what is the problem?


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## James75 (Nov 5, 2020)

Sorry left out it is a remodel


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## James75 (Nov 5, 2020)

cda said:


> Is this it????
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes that is the code im referring to. Its very vague.My argument is that it is not an unobstructed path of travel when you have to go through a bedroom


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## cda (Nov 5, 2020)

James75 said:


> Yes that is the code im referring to. Its very vague.My argument is that it is not an unobstructed path of travel when you have to go through a bedroom




Looks like you are on the AHJ side of life.

I am guessing if code allows exit through a garage, going through a bedroom not much different.

Seems also, this will be the normal route the tenants use???

You have to go through one bedroom to get to the other????


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## Rick18071 (Nov 5, 2020)

James75 said:


> My argument is that it is not an unobstructed path of travel when you have to go through a bedroom



I guess it depends if it is a teenagers bedroom or not. I could think of more obstructed rooms than bedrooms like a closet, basement, storage room or my office.


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## steveray (Nov 5, 2020)

I think the IPMC and some health/ housing codes cover it....Just not the unamended IRC...


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## steveray (Nov 5, 2020)

IPMC

404.4.2 Access from bedrooms. Bedrooms shall not constitute
the only means of access to other bedrooms or habitable
spaces and shall not serve as the only means of
egress from other habitable spaces.
Exception: Units that contain fewer than two bedrooms.


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## cda (Nov 5, 2020)

I think we need a floor plan


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## mark handler (Nov 6, 2020)

James75 said:


> Wanted to get some thoughts on means of egress in a existing residential single family home where there are two egresses are proposed and one goes through a bedroom. My feeling is that it should not be allowed. I know IBC it would not be allowed i believe.


Mass Fire Code:
NFPA 1 - 2015
Egress Through Intervening rooms
Egress from a room or space shall not pass through adjoining or intervening rooms or areas, except where such adjoining rooms or areas and the area served are accessory to one or the other, are not a Group H occupancy and provide* a discernible path of egress travel to an exit.*"

How can you provide a *a discernible path of egress travel to an exit, in a bedroom.

what happens when they **rearrange** the **furniture**?
Or when they put a privacy lock on the door...*


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## cda (Nov 6, 2020)

Need a floor plan


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## steveray (Nov 6, 2020)

mark handler said:


> Mass Fire Code:
> NFPA 1 - 2015
> Egress Through Intervening rooms
> Egress from a room or space shall not pass through adjoining or intervening rooms or areas, except where such adjoining rooms or areas and the area served are accessory to one or the other, are not a Group H occupancy and provide* a discernible path of egress travel to an exit.*"
> ...


Same thing as when they do that in any other occupancy....THEY create a violation....WE do not regulate what might happen....But I would certainly argue that a bedroom is not accessory to another bedroom....


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## MACV (Nov 9, 2020)

The quoted rule is from the Massachusetts Amendments to the 2015 IRC.


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## TheCommish (Nov 9, 2020)

mark handler said:


> Mass Fire Code:
> NFPA 1 - 2015
> Egress Through Intervening rooms
> Egress from a room or space shall not pass through adjoining or intervening rooms or areas, except where such adjoining rooms or areas and the area served are accessory to one or the other, are not a Group H occupancy and provide* a discernible path of egress travel to an exit.*"
> ...


the MA fire code is not applicable to SFH, the building code  as previously stated requires every bedroom to have its own EERO


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## Rick18071 (Nov 10, 2020)

mark handler said:


> *what happens when they **rearrange** the **furniture**?
> Or when they put a privacy lock on the door...*


Does the MA code require furniture to be in before inspections? I never see furniture when I do inspections except a few alterations in existing houses and when testing smoke alarms in existing.


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## TheCommish (Nov 10, 2020)

Mass does not require furniture to be in the room at final, actually there should not be anything in the SFH at final.


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## ADAguy (Nov 12, 2020)

Not the safest idea nor a best practice.


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## Rick18071 (Nov 12, 2020)

ADAguy said:


> Not the safest idea nor a best practice.


Why would it not be safer without  furniture ?


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## Paul Sweet (Nov 13, 2020)

If furniture is in a residence there's a good chance somebody is living there before final.


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## TheCommish (Nov 14, 2020)

Paul Sweet said:


> If furniture is in a residence there's a good chance somebody is living there before final.


No, I just had it delivered, ignore the food in the refrigerator I just opened and mail on the counter, there are no sheet on the bed we are not living here


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## Rick18071 (Jan 8, 2021)

Paul Sweet said:


> If furniture is in a residence there's a good chance somebody is living there before final.


90% of my permits are for alterations in an existing house which almost always have furniture in the house and people living in before a C. O. is issued. Lot's of times they are all reading using an addition or deck before a C. O. is issued. Usually they already have the shelving and display units in the brand new dollar store building before a C. O. I don't have a problem with it.


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## cda (Jan 8, 2021)

Rick18071 said:


> 90% of my permits are for alterations in an existing house which almost always have furniture in the house and people living in before a C. O. is issued. Lot's of times they are all reading using an addition or deck before a C. O. is issued. Usually they already have the shelving and display units in the brand new dollar store building before a C. O. I don't have a problem with it.



Person, Someone with common sense.

Do you  get extra common sense pay?


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## Gman (Jan 8, 2021)

Guys, would not the second means of egress called out in bedrooms be in regards to the window sizing and the elevation of the window sill itself. When putting windows into basement there are windows sized for both egress and access for a fireman with a pack, and if the window well exceeds a certain depth you must also provide an escape ladder. They are sized accordingly so that if the occupant is forced to exit via the window they are able to do so with little to no effort.

Just a thought


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