# Water fountains required in a dental office?



## ToofDocta (Oct 6, 2017)

Need some clarification please.

I'm about to open my new dental office here around Pittsburgh, PA area was told today that I will be needing a "high-low" water fountain install in my already small 1200 SF office.

I have only have 5 total staff/employee and my office space is at a strip mall location, not a public building, will I need to install a "high-low" water fountain to meet codes?

Thanks for all the info and help in advance.


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## conarb (Oct 6, 2017)

Doc:

Pennsylvania may be different but I've built at least a dozen dental suites in California and never installed a water fountain, it may be that if you do install a fountain it must be a high/low device, if that's the case just eliminate it.


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## ToofDocta (Oct 6, 2017)

conarb said:


> Doc:
> 
> Pennsylvania may be different but I've built at least a dozen dental suites in California and never installed a water fountain, it may be that if you do install a fountain it must be a high/low device, if that's the case just eliminate it.


Thanks for the reply!  I know every state is different and has different ADA codes.  I was just informed of this today so I was hoping to learn more about it.

I just hate to dedicate more build-out space for a "high-low" when my office space is already small and I'll never have enough traffic in my office where two water fountains will be used daily.  I be more than happy to provide bottle water to any disabled/handicapped patients.

Hopefully more can chime in on this topic for medical and dental offices in PA


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## Msradell (Oct 6, 2017)

As conarb said the codes in most places do not require a water fountain however if one is installed it must be a high low combination water fountain. Just eliminate the water fountain and provide a water cooler, all of those I've seen have a spigot at an accessible level.


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## cda (Oct 6, 2017)

ToofDocta said:


> Thanks for the reply!  I know every state is different and has different ADA codes.  I was just informed of this today so I was hoping to learn more about it.
> 
> I just hate to dedicate more build-out space for a "high-low" when my office space is already small and I'll never have enough traffic in my office where two water fountains will be used daily.  I be more than happy to provide bottle water to any disabled/handicapped patients.
> 
> Hopefully more can chime in on this topic for medical and dental offices in PA




Who is saying or suggesting you need the fountains ???


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## conarb (Oct 7, 2017)

cda said:


> Who is saying or suggesting you need the fountains ???



He's from around Pittsburgh, PA., next you know they are going to require dual level water fountains in Fallingwater, Frank Lloyd Wright was notorious for his short narrow doorways, he was thin and short and if he could fit through everyone else should be able to as well, we need more Frank Lloyd Wrights designing buildings and fewer code maniacs and zealots.


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## Francis Vineyard (Oct 7, 2017)

ToofDocta, this forum has several members that are familiar with the Pennsylvania accessibility code that may further assist.

In the meantime may want to review the Pennsylvania code Chapter 60 Universal Accessibility to acquaint yourself with the general code provisions.

As mentioned previously consider asking where it "shall" have drinking fountains in areas that are altered as opposed to where they are "provided" in existing buildings.


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## ToofDocta (Oct 7, 2017)

Francis Vineyard said:


> ToofDocta, this forum has several members that are familiar with the Pennsylvania accessibility code that may further assist.
> 
> In the meantime may want to review the Pennsylvania code Chapter 60 Universal Accessibility to acquaint yourself with the general code provisions.
> 
> As mentioned previously consider asking where it "shall" have drinking fountains in areas that are altered as opposed to where they are "provided" in existing buildings.


I hope those that knows PA codes will chime in and clarify....really hate to have to have a "high-low" in my already small office.


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## conarb (Oct 7, 2017)

ToofDocta said:


> I hope those that knows PA codes will chime in and clarify....really hate to have to have a "high-low" in my already small office.


Doc:

It would be helpful to know if you have a normal one now?


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## mark handler (Oct 7, 2017)

According to the Pensulvania adopted IPC, the code requires one drinking fountains per 100 occupants, 50% of those could be water dispensers, water bottle dispensers.
A single drinking fountain with two separate spouts that complies with the requirements for people who use a wheelchair and standing persons shall be permitted to be substituted for two separate drinking fountains.


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## conarb (Oct 7, 2017)

mark handler said:


> According to the Pensulvania adopted IPC, the code requires one drinking fountains per 100 occupants, 50% of those could be water dispensers, water bottle dispensers.
> A single drinking fountain with two separate spouts that complies with the requirements for people who use a wheelchair and standing persons shall be permitted to be substituted for two separate drinking fountains.


 So is that read as if there are less than 100 occupants no fountains are required?


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## Francis Vineyard (Oct 7, 2017)

mark handler said:


> According to the Pensulvania adopted IPC, the code requires one drinking fountains per 100 occupants, 50% of those could be water dispensers, water bottle dispensers.
> A single drinking fountain with two separate spouts that complies with the requirements for people who use a wheelchair and standing persons shall be permitted to be substituted for two separate drinking fountains.


"Drinking fountains are not required for an occupant load of 15 or fewer" in accordance to footnote f of Table 403.1


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## mark handler (Oct 7, 2017)

Francis Vineyard said:


> "Drinking fountains are not required for an occupant load of 15 or fewer" in accordance to footnote f of Table 403.1


Correct, I missed the 1200 sf size of the office.
So if it were over 1500 sq ft fountain (or approve other) would be required.


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## ToofDocta (Oct 7, 2017)

Francis Vineyard said:


> "Drinking fountains are not required for an occupant load of 15 or fewer" in accordance to footnote f of Table 403.1


This is great! Yes, my new office space will be around 1,200-1,280 SF and at no given time I would have more than 15+ people in my dental office. 

Do you have a link to Table 403.1? 

Like to share this info with my township/borough when they try to enforce the ADA code that I’ll need a “high low” in my new small office space


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## ToofDocta (Oct 7, 2017)

conarb said:


> Doc:
> 
> It would be helpful to know if you have a normal one now?


No, I’m about to build out for a brand new dental office at an existing office retail space. I’ll be a 2nd generation tenant. First generation tenant was Nationwide Insurance agent and he did not have a drinking fountain in that location.

Because I will be a new tenant and building my dental office as new, my dental Architect whom just designed another new dental practice in the neighborhood recently stated that the township/borough required that office to have a “high-low” in that new office. Now he’s thinking that I would need a “high-low” in my office too.

We ran this question to the retail space broker, he stated he’ll double check with the township building code inspector to make sure but he’s pretty sure that I’ll need one too because another new recent retail business in the same strip mall was required to have a “high low” also. But I’m thinking this other new retail business at my strip mall needs a “high-low” because they are a retail business and they may have 15+ occupancy at any given time. 

My dental practice runs differently, the only people that will be in my office is myself plus 4 office staff with my 2-3 patients at any given time.


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## ToofDocta (Oct 7, 2017)

cda said:


> Who is saying or suggesting you need the fountains ???


My dental office architect whom designed and opened a dental office nearby recently

And

The retail office space landlord’s leasing broker whom stated that another retail business (granite stone retailer) at the same strip mall opened recently the township enforced that they needed a “high-low”

These two people prompt me to wonder if I’ll need a high-low in my new small 1,200-1,280 SF dental office?


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## cda (Oct 7, 2017)

ToofDocta said:


> My dental office architect whom designed and opened a dental office nearby recently
> 
> And
> 
> ...




You can call the building dept and ask a general question

And not have to identify yourself


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## Msradell (Oct 7, 2017)

cda said:


> You can call the building dept and ask a general question
> 
> And not have to identify yourself


Unfortunately, I'm betting he is located in a fairly small town so not a lot  of dental offices are being built. If he's the only One building a new office right now they would certainly know who with asking.


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## ToofDocta (Oct 8, 2017)

Just read the 2015 IPC sections 403.1 and 410.2

So it does say “small occupancy 15 or less does not require a drinking fountain”

So my question now is...does IPC superceed/trump over Amer Disability Act (ADA) codes? Is there a separate ADA building code that I should be aware or is the IPC is all I need to know?

In another word, can an ADA code require my dental office to have a “high-low” installed when IPC clearly states that I shouldn’t need one since my dental practice is considered “small occupancy”?


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## mark handler (Oct 8, 2017)

Like many items, ADA does not require Drinking Fountains.  If installed,  they need to comply, but no required.
*ADASAD 211 Where drinking fountains are provided*


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## mark handler (Oct 8, 2017)

delete


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## ToofDocta (Oct 8, 2017)

mark handler said:


> Like many items, ADA does not require Drinking Fountains.  If installed,  they need to comply, but no required.
> *ADASAD 211 Where drinking fountains are provided*


Awesome!  Well Gents....I believe we solved our "mystery".  Thank you to all those that replied.  I plan to forward this info on so the township/borough don't insist that I need a "high-low" in my new dental practice.


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## cda (Oct 8, 2017)

ToofDocta said:


> Awesome!  Well Gents....I believe we solved our "mystery".  Thank you to all those that replied.  I plan to forward this info on so the township/borough don't insist that I need a "high-low" in my new dental practice.




You might wait till you are told you need one by the city. If they even say you need one.

Than ask them for a code section, so you and your adviser can read it to see if it applies.

Than counter with the research you have found.


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## cda (Oct 8, 2017)

Oh by the way how much for two molar implants??


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## Rick18071 (Oct 9, 2017)

ADA is a civil rights law and is not enforced by the local inspector. You will not need any drinking fountain if there is a occupation of less than 15 persons, but if you have one you must have a high-low or one high and one low.


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## ADAguy (Oct 9, 2017)

Hold up, has anyone considered whether this a health department requirement (specific to a dental office) vs a building department requirement?


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## Jmb (Oct 9, 2017)

If this is near Pittsburgh and in Allegheny County, plumbing requirements and fixture counts may fall under the Allegheny County Health Department (ACHD) Plumbing Division. They have the authority of jurisdiction over plumbing as per their “Article XV”.


If ACHD requires the water fountain, then it would need to be a high/low non-protruding unit as per the IBC 2015, 1109.5


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## BayArchitect (Nov 17, 2022)

Late to this party. Hopefully, your architect was able to show your occupancy load was 15 or less. We just did so on a 1900sf dental buildout. There are detailed ways to demonstrate this. If your architect has ever done restaurant projects or “assembly” spaces, he should know the work arounds. IE) fixed seating (dental chair), circulation, etc. Your reception lobby will be the biggest load most likely and you can deduct certain spaces out of the calculation. Use Luttrell Architecture in Tampa next time.


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## Msradell (Nov 17, 2022)

BayArchitect said:


> Late to this party. Hopefully, your architect was able to show your occupancy load was 15 or less. We just did so on a 1900sf dental buildout. There are detailed ways to demonstrate this. If your architect has ever done restaurant projects or “assembly” spaces, he should know the work arounds. IE) fixed seating (dental chair), circulation, etc. Your reception lobby will be the biggest load most likely and you can deduct certain spaces out of the calculation. Use Luttrell Architecture in Tampa next time.


Considering you reply to a thread that was last posted in 2017, I hope he has a problem solved by now!


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## Rick18071 (Nov 18, 2022)

I'm in eastern PA and I always required drinking fountains including dentist offices if there is a occupation of less than 15 persons in all occupancies except U and restaurants. Of course they can always appeal my decision. The biggest complainers I had about this are for storage building which have the required plumbing facilities in a office next door.


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## Pcinspector1 (Nov 18, 2022)

We have had two dental offices go in and one tenant dental expansion in the last five years. All three have shown thier displeasure having to install a HiLow water fountain. Thier beef is that the patient after treatment will sometimes go to the fountain and wash thier mouth out and spit in the fountain. This is sometimes in front of awaiting patients depending on the location of the fountain. 

They have colluded amungst themseleves to request a bottle cooler or to provide small refregerated water bottles in the waiting areas for thier patients. I recently was asked if they could install a bottle filler which I first declined thinking not everybody carries a bottle which may be considered discriminating to most of the patrons and the public refering them to ADA requirements.


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## mtlogcabin (Nov 18, 2022)

As amended by the state
r. On an individual case-by-case basis the building official may approve an alternative source of potable drinking water, such as, but not limited to, a bottled water cooler, in lieu of a drinking fountain. 

A lot of drinking fountains have been shut down since covid and are still not operational in medical facilities.


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## ADAguy (Dec 2, 2022)

The point is, only if you provide it then it must comply. ADA is not a code. 
Please tell us however that you are on the ground floor?


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