# Sealing  The  Sole  Plates



## globe trekker (Feb 8, 2010)

Does anyone require that the sole plates be sealed, ...either with a caulking, foam or an approved type of weather

stripping [ in accordance with Section N1102.4 - Air Leakage,  `06 IRC ] ?      Thanks!    

.


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## Mule (Feb 8, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

We do in our jurisdiction. Either foam or caulk.


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## TJacobs (Feb 8, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

Since the code requires it why wouldn't you require it?


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## globe trekker (Feb 8, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

Because of politics!   :cry:

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## Robert Ellenberg (Feb 8, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

With a sealed envelope (conditioned attic and crawl space) you wouldn't have to.


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## TJacobs (Feb 8, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates



			
				globe trekker said:
			
		

> Because of politics!   :cry:
> 
> .


Good answer... 

When I was a carpenter back in the day (1975-1992) we were sealing sill plates and nobody had to force us. :roll:


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## Mule (Feb 8, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates



			
				Robert Ellenberg said:
			
		

> With a sealed envelope (conditioned attic and crawl space) you wouldn't have to.


Wouldn't sealing the sole plates be part of the "sealed envelope"?


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## globe trekker (Feb 8, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

R. Ellenberg,

Welcome to the forum!    

The sole plates [ to which I refer ] are the typical ' slab-on-grade ' type of foundations, and in some cases, ...the

' conventional ' types.

The AHJ is somewhat trying to educate the contracting community in to complying with the adopted codes and ordinances.

However, the old adage still applies here:

*Inspector:* *"Yessir, Mr./Ms. Homebilder, you DO have to seal all of the sole plates to prevent air infiltration and leakage of the conditioned air."*

*Homebilder:* *"Why is that?"*

*Inspector:* *"Cause the city leaders have adopted the international building codes and that is one of the requirements in Chapter 11."*

*Homebilder:* *'Why we been bildin' houses fur 40 years and ain't never had no problems.    You need to git in yore truk and git on outta here*

*Mr. city inspector!"*

After the inspector leaves...

*the Homebilder - who is now good and puffed up:* *"Yep boys, we dunn showed that inspector a thang or two.    We let him know who the*

*boss is `round these pahrts!"*

*True story... *

Now, fast forward 5+ years...    The drama continues.      The same home builder calls for an inspection on another house.

*Homebilder:* *"I need some help on all of this "shear wall framing stuff!    Danged, there shore haz been a lot of new codes and stuff come*

*along and I ain't up on all of it.      There shore iz a lot of new stuff out these days and I don't understand all of it.   Kan you come out to my*

*site and tell me what I need to do?"*

Your experience may be different!    



.


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## Robert Ellenberg (Feb 8, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

Mule--no, they lead to the attic or crawl space--both of which are conditioned space.

Globe Trekker--I know what you meant, I was simply answering the quesiton of when you wouldn't need to.

I am also the builder who would respectfully ask the AHJ if I needed to after politely asking him to consider the conditoned space situation and then proceeding to calk them if he told me to even if he was wrong.  For me, to challenge a AHJ there must be two conditions--I think he is wrong and it will be time consuming/expensive.  And even if I think he is out in left field on an issue he IS the AHJ and can make life difficult.  Always be respectful.


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## Uncle Bob (Feb 8, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

Robert,

Welcome to the forum.

We also have to keep up with the "everchanging" codes; and it is agravating for us, also.

Hope you find the answers your looking for here.

Uncle Bob


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## globe trekker (Feb 8, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

Robert Ellenberger,

My apologies if I offended you.    I did not intend to offend anyone, ...just a bad attempt at some humor.   

Again, "Welcome to the forum!"  



.


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## Robert Ellenberg (Feb 8, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

No offense was thought, just clarifying my response.  You guys know this much better than I and I am here to learn.  But if I think I can contribute I will do that as well.


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## Mule (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates



			
				Robert Ellenberg said:
			
		

> Mule--no, they lead to the attic or crawl space--both of which are conditioned space.I am also the builder who would respectfully ask the AHJ if I needed to after politely asking him to consider the conditoned space situation and then proceeding to calk them if he told me to even if he was wrong.  For me, to challenge a AHJ there must be two conditions--I think he is wrong and it will be time consuming/expensive.  And even if I think he is out in left field on an issue he IS the AHJ and can make life difficult.  Always be respectful.


Robert welcome!!! I understand what you mean now...sometimes the brain just ain't in gear!

And on your comment "For me, to challenge a AHJ there must be two conditions--I think he is wrong and it will be time consuming/expensive."

I respect builders that challenge me. I've been wrong a few dozen times (at least) in my career and the codes and the building process is a continuing learning process. I don't want builders to do something just because I asked them too. I want them to do it because it's in the code. I'm always open for discussion and always learning.


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## Pcinspector1 (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

Globe trekker,

I think I know that Homebilder, (Homebuilder) Does he chew beechnut and spit in his shirt pocket?  

That guy use to be a pole builder!


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## Uncle Bob (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

Robert,

I am glad that you are here; and hope you will spread the word to other builders, contractors, and remodelers about our forum.  Here you can speak freely about your opinion and/or codes.  As you read various posts on other topics you will find that we often disagree; many times agressively and passionately.  Don't let it put you off. It is the beauty of this forum; that regardless of our opinions and positions; and especially, regardless of our profession or lack thereof; everyone is equal here.

ps.  Someone will always disagree with you.  I am always right; and, folks here disagree with me all the time.     

Again Welcome,

Uncle Bob


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## globe trekker (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

Pcinspector1,

Whadda ya mean "spit"? :lol:   Kan't be a wastin' that investment of t`bakky juicy.   That there is a color darkening agent in to the paints fur the house,  or a stainin' agent for the kawn-krete

floors.    

.


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## Badeeba (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

Item 1 under 1102.4.1 requires all joints and seams to be sealed.  We require exterior sole plates and vertical exterior corners to be caulked or gasqueted, or if house is pre build panels, vertical seams between panels to be seales.  Also we require all penetrations in plates to be sealed regardless of their relationship to conditioned space for firestopping purposes.  Also penetrations crossing more than 10' horizontally would require firestop seal for the same purposes.


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## Robert Ellenberg (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

OK, I'll hang in here a little longer and someone show me where I am wrong.

As to the requirements of "Item 1 under 1102.4.1 requires all joints and seams to be sealed.", the title of 1102.4.1 is Building Thermal envelope.  If the sole plate is sitting on a floor over a conditioned crawl space, this does not apply.  As to fire blocking, R602.8 Fireblocking required, says it shall be provided to cut off all concealed draft openings..................between stories, and between a top story and the roof space.  How does this apply to a sole plate over a crawl space?


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## steveray (Feb 10, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

If it is a conditioned crawlspace, the envelope extends down to the slab insulation, and any joint from the roof on down would need to be "sealed", my question would be what is the definition of "sealed" is it gasketed like "sill-seal" foam, or hanging the sheathing down to cover the "gap" between foundation and sole plate? If the sheathing doesn't cut it, wouldn't you also have to seal ALL horizontal plate connections? :?:

OK...Read the section...(I'm still on '03)

N1102.4.1 Building thermal envelope.

The building thermal envelope shall be durably sealed to limit infiltration. The sealing methods between dissimilar materials shall allow for differential expansion and contraction. The following shall be caulked, gasketed, weatherstripped or otherwise sealed with an air barrier material, suitable film or *solid material.*

1.   All joints, seams and penetrations.

2.   Site-built windows, doors and skylights.

3.   Openings between window and door assemblies and their respective jambs and framing.

4.   Utility penetrations.

5.   Dropped ceilings or chases adjacent to the thermal envelope.

6.   Knee walls.

7.   Walls and ceilings separating the garage from conditioned spaces.

8.   Behind tubs and showers on exterior walls.

9.   Common walls between dwelling units.

10.   Other sources of infiltration.

Seems like sheathing is a solid material and covers the joint! IF hung down over the sole plate. Being DISSIMILAR materials (the plate and foundation wall) I think it would need to be sealed in some way! JMHO


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## D a v e W (Feb 10, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

Mule I agree, been there done that


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## peach (Feb 10, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

so very many places overlook the energy requirements...

yes, it's in the code...

sorry Mr. Home builder... have a nice day, and call me back when you're really ready!


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## globe trekker (Feb 10, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

Even though the codes [ minimum standards  ] may be adopted by the AHJ, that's not politically acceptable peach!      

.


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## peach (Feb 10, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

politically acceptable is why we have so many local amendments..  (and some bad buildings) out there..


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## jar546 (Feb 10, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

What about sill plates with sill seal on open web CMU foundations?


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## Mule (Feb 10, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates



			
				jar546 said:
			
		

> What about sill plates with sill seal on open web CMU foundations?


Try saying that five times real fast! :shock:


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## RJJ (Feb 11, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

This has been around I am surprised anyone is ? it. :roll:


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## RJJ (Feb 11, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

What about sill plates with sill seal on open web CMU foundations?

What about sill plates with sill seal on open web CMU foundations?

What about sill plates with sill seal on open web CMU foundations?

What about sill plates with sill seal on open web CMU foundations?

What about sill plates with sill seal on open web CMU foundations?

How I do?


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## pwood (Feb 11, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates



			
				RJJ said:
			
		

> WhataboutsillplateswithsillsealonopenwebCMUfoundations?WhataboutsillplateswithsillsealonopenwebCMUfoundations?
> 
> WhataboutsillplateswithsillsealonopenwebCMUfoundations?
> 
> ...


cookin! :mrgreen:


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## Mule (Feb 11, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

I'm impressed! :roll:


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## north star (Feb 11, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

*Jeff asked:*



> What about sill plates with sill seal on open web CMU foundations?


*Jeff, wherever there is a seam, or crack or opening that would allow air infiltration, they would need to be sealed in*

*an approved manner.*


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## Badeeba (Feb 22, 2010)

Re: Sealing  The  Sole  Plates

If the sole plate is on an exterior wall does the seam not communicate with the outdoors, then ruling the crawlspace condition irrelevant.  And R602.8 item 4 requires all penetrations at the floor and cieling be sealed with an approved material.  I think sill seal or caulking required, and firestop required.


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