# Interesting class today



## jar546 (Dec 8, 2009)

I attended a seminar today on the IRC and Two-Family dwellings under the 2009.  It was specific to townhouses, duplexes, twins and other types of 2 family dwellings.  It was a pretty good idea to throw this together for a specific subject like this one.  I picked up on a few things that I had either forgotten or did not know.  Amazing what you will find when you look deeper into the books.

So a question to everyone.  Do any of your municipalities require stamped drawings for townhouses and two-family dwellings?  None of the muni's that I work in do.  I am only talking about the IRC governed units, not four stories.

Also, I am surprised that with all of the changes in this area for 2009 including referenced to the IBC such as 419, etc under the live/work unit that you don't have to have a commercial building cert even though you may have to go to the IBC for plan review.  Not too happy about this.


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## vegas paul (Dec 8, 2009)

Re: Interesting class today

I'm not sure I understand your question about stamping... Are you asking if we require Architect/Engineer stamped plans?  Or are you asking if we require Contractor-drawn plans to be signed/stamped?  We allow design-build (contractors to draw/sign their own plans) but hold them to the same degree of compliance.  Otherwise, they must be stamped by an architect or Residential Designer.  Often, contractors will submit stamped engineering drawings and calcs along with the contractor-drawn plans.

BTW, we reuqire this for SFDs also, unless they are owner/builder.


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## jar546 (Dec 8, 2009)

Re: Interesting class today

PA does not require a stamped set of drawings for buildings that are under the IRC unless there is an L&I approved local ordinance.

I am not asking about who is allowed to draw them, just if you require the plans to be stamped for IRC buildings.

Thanks


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## RJJ (Dec 8, 2009)

Re: Interesting class today

Yes! required!


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## incognito (Dec 9, 2009)

Re: Interesting class today

Absolutely not. The builders and inspectors in this area are actually competent. You only need stamped plans if you have a boat load of idiots involved.


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## jar546 (Dec 9, 2009)

Re: Interesting class today

Do they even have codes in Arizona?


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## Mac (Dec 9, 2009)

Re: Interesting class today

We have been throught this before, no?

NYS law requires NYS Licensed Architect or Engineer stamped plans for any project that costs over $20,000.

Hey, maybe NY aint poifect, but they got this one right!


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## Pcinspector1 (Dec 9, 2009)

Re: Interesting class today

Jeff,

If the Q. is in regards to Arch. & Eng. stamped drawings: Double check with your states Board of Architects and Engineers, the Missouri board exempts dwelling houses and multi family dwelling house, apartment containing not more than two families from having Arch. & eng. stamped drawings.

See IRC2006, R106.1 exceptions also.


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## rktect 1 (Dec 9, 2009)

Re: Interesting class today

You bet.


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 9, 2009)

Re: Interesting class today

R106.1 Submittal documents.

Construction documents, special inspection and structural observation programs and other data shall be submitted in one or more sets with each application for a permit. The construction documents shall be prepared by a registered design professional where required by the statutes of the jurisdiction in which the project is to be constructed. Where special conditions exist, the building official is authorized to require additional construction documents to be prepared by a registered design professional.

Normally no. If they fall out of the presciptive method then we use the last sentence and would require an engineer for that portion of the project.


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## TJacobs (Dec 9, 2009)

Re: Interesting class today

We require stamped plans for all dwellings under the IRC by local amendment     :

_Section R106.1 shall be amended to read as follows:_

_R106.1 Submittal documents. Construction documents for new single-family dwellings, two-family dwellings, townhouse dwellings, duplex dwellings, additions to dwelling units above the first floor, modifications which alter the roof of a dwelling unit and alterations, repairs, expansion, additions and/or modifications to a dwelling unit of a substantial scope as determined by the Building Official, shall be sealed and signed by an Illinois licensed architect or structural engineer._


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## JBI (Dec 9, 2009)

Re: Interesting class today

What Mac said.   

Requiring a Seal/Signature has NOTHING to do with the competency (or lack thereof) of the Code Officials in any jurisdiction, it's simply a matter of compliance with the laws of the jurisdiction and/or State. If local or State law didn't require a seal/signature, AND the plans submitted adequately demonstrate compliance with the applicable code(s) then I wouldn't have a problem with it. If however the plans DON'T adequately demonstrate compliance with the applicable code(s), then they will be turned down.

It is not a COs job to teach every incompetent wannabe how to draw plans or build. Don't misunderstand that statement though, educating the public is a very important function of my office. I just won't do 'Drafting 101' or 'Framing 101'.

Fortunately for me I work in a State that actually cares about quality in Code Enforcement.


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## raider1 (Dec 9, 2009)

Re: Interesting class today



			
				mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> R106.1 Submittal documents. Construction documents, special inspection and structural observation programs and other data shall be submitted in one or more sets with each application for a permit. The construction documents shall be prepared by a registered design professional where required by the statutes of the jurisdiction in which the project is to be constructed. Where special conditions exist, the building official is authorized to require additional construction documents to be prepared by a registered design professional.
> 
> Normally no. If they fall out of the presciptive method then we use the last sentence and would require an engineer for that portion of the project.


Pretty much the same here, if the plans fall outside the prescriptive method an engineers stamp is required.

Chris


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## incognito (Dec 9, 2009)

Re: Interesting class today

Requiring stamps on residential plans when the prescriptive construction techniques are covered by the International Residential Code is ridiculous. Not only is the taxpayer paying the salary of the inspectors, who, if professional should be able to at least apply the code book to the current project, they now have to pay a design professional to draw pretty pictures for the inspectors. Some of you guys are going to regulate yourself right out of a job.


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## Min&Max (Dec 9, 2009)

Re: Interesting class today

If I tried to require stamps on residential projects I would be hung by my thumbs--and rightfully so. Its incredible that citizens allow so much bureaucratic BS.


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## JBI (Dec 9, 2009)

Re: Interesting class today

incognito - I don't write State Education Law. I'm not regulating myself out of anything. If I accept plans for a project in excess of $20,000 without a seal/signature my employer is potentially liable. That would be de-regulating myself out of a job. And those taxpayers that you seem to care so much about will foot the bill for the judgement. My salary is a he<< of a lot less than a court award for non-feasance.

Min&Max - It's a New York thing apparently.

This is not something that NYS COs have any control over whatsoever. Not to mention a CO can't be all-knowing on all things code anyway. I know some would like to believe that is possible, but it simply is not. We are 'generalists' at best, usually with a particular skill set in one or more trades, but far from god-like in our knowledge.

Certification is not the same as deification.


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## fatboy (Dec 9, 2009)

Re: Interesting class today

Up to four units, compliant under the IRC, no, stamped plans not required.


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## Min&Max (Dec 9, 2009)

Re: Interesting class today

Generalists=combination inspectors. I would agree that no one inspector can be expected to do an above average job of inspecting every element of a project. Those jurisdictions that have trade specific inspectors do a much better job of assuring minimum code compliance in all phases of a project.


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## JBI (Dec 10, 2009)

Re: Interesting class today

Theoretically....


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## texas transplant (Dec 14, 2009)

Re: Interesting class today

Min&Max,

I agree with you as far as in a perfect world, inspections by a tradesman schooled specifically in the trade he is inspecting would be good.  I have been party to both inspection by the by trade inspector and combination inspector method.

If you have a competent, level headed, skilled, tradesman, you should get a better overall product.

However, in budget cutting time, you have to do more with less (or at least the same amount with less)   A combination inspector means fewer trips to the job, fewer miles driven, one man on the job not 4.  Budgets can be leaner with combo inspectors.

Now  personally, I have had great luck with combo inspectors.  I can always train someone to do a good job as an inspector, I can't always find the right personality to make a good inspector and I sure can't change the way someone thinks and acts.

So, I will take the combo inspector almost anytime.


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## Architect1281 (Jan 13, 2010)

Re: Interesting class today

Design Professional General Laws enforced in RI require Architect on ALL Except One and Two Family Dwelling

so when you go to 3 even if still in the One and two family code as in townhouse a professional design is Required


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