# Separate single user shower room required?



## Mech (Jan 21, 2010)

2006 IBC / IPC

Factory, with 100 person occupant load per code, only 5 employees actually work there per the client.

Separate single user restrooms provided.

One shower is proposed, along with multiple lockers.  Since showers are not required per code, must I provide one shower for men and one shower for women or can I provide a one person, lockable, unisex shower room with all the lockers in the shower room?


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## JBI (Jan 21, 2010)

Re: Separate single user shower room required?

I think you may get by with one, just make sure it is H/C accessible...


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## globe trekker (Jan 21, 2010)

Re: Separate single user shower room required?

John  &  Mech,

If no shower is required, then no H/C requs. are necessary.   Convenient maybe, ...required, ...No!

Also, one unisex WILL meet your needs,  however,  [ my ] experience says that a separate shower

for the females would be a prudent decision.    

.


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## vegas paul (Jan 21, 2010)

Re: Separate single user shower room required?

globe trekker - Where are you citing the exception for accessibility on non-required showers?  IBC 1109.2 says:  Toilet and bathing facilities shall be accessible...  None of the exceptions apply (to my simple mind).


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## JBI (Jan 21, 2010)

Re: Separate single user shower room required?

globe - Go back and re-read the accessibility requirements, where fixtures are provided they _shall be_ accessible. Doesn't say 'required fixtures'.

1109.2 Toilet and bathing facilities.

Toilet rooms and bathing facilities shall be accessible. Where a floor level is not required to be connected by an accessible route, the only toilet rooms or bathing facilities provided within the facility shall not be located on the inaccessible floor. At least one of each type of fixture, element, control or dispenser in each accessible toilet room and bathing facility shall be accessible.

 Exceptions:

1.   In toilet rooms or bathing facilities accessed only through a private office, not for common or public use and intended for use by a single occupant, any of the following alternatives are allowed:

1.1.   Doors are permitted to swing into the clear floor space, provided the door swing can be reversed to meet the requirements in ICC A117.1;

1.2.   The height requirements for the water closet in ICC A117.1 are not applicable;

1.3.   Grab bars are not required to be installed in a toilet room, provided that reinforcement has been installed in the walls and located so as to permit the installation of such grab bars; and

1.4.   The requirement for height, knee and toe clearance shall not apply to a lavatory.

2.   This section is not applicable to toilet and bathing facilities that serve dwelling units or sleeping units that are not required to be accessible by Section 1107.

3.   Where multiple single-user toilet rooms or bathing facilities are clustered at a single location, at least 50 percent but not less than one room for each use at each cluster shall be accessible.

4.   Where no more than one urinal is provided in a toilet room or bathing facility, the urinal is not required to be accessible.

5.   Toilet rooms that are part of critical care or intensive care patient sleeping rooms are not required to be accessible.

and...

1109.2.1.3 Unisex bathing rooms.

Unisex bathing rooms shall include only one shower or bathtub fixture. Unisex bathing rooms shall also include one water closet and one lavatory. Where storage facilities are provided for separate-sex bathing rooms, accessible storage facilities shall be provided for unisex bathing rooms.


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## globe trekker (Jan 21, 2010)

Re: Separate single user shower room required?

John,

Always appreciate your input!          I would go with Exception # 1 and appeal the

rest of the [ subjective requs. ] to the BO.

I DO see your point, but Exception # 1 would remove height reqs.,  clearance reqs.,

turning radius reqs.,  and grab bar reqs. [ in the toilet space ].   With those reqs. exempted

and the shower is not ' required ' anyway,  I would have to say "No" to the req. shower.

I am not always right John,  but that would be the way I would interpret the design.

As a legal back-up position, I would contact the Accessibility Board and get a formal,

written interpretation to stick in the file.    If they say, the shower ' MUST BE ' H/C

accessible, then I would comply with the directive, but not before.    If the BO says

to H/C equip. the 'non-required ' shower,  then I would appeal.

.


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## steveray (Jan 21, 2010)

Re: Separate single user shower room required?

Agree it needs to be accessible, only the shower off of the private office gets you out of it, if it is intended for multiple users, needs to be accessible!  JMHO


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## Mech (Jan 21, 2010)

Re: Separate single user shower room required?

Yes, the shower will be accessible.


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## globe trekker (Jan 22, 2010)

Re: Separate single user shower room required?

John & others,

I have read and re-read and re-read and re-read Section 1109.2 multiple times trying to get a better

understanding of the requirements.       I have to say that John is correct [ as usual ]!   

I am wrong in my interpretation of the language.     The 'non-required ' shower WOULD need to be

accessible.   I do not agree with the actual wording or the requirement [ in this case ],  but

nonetheless, it is what it is!    I WOULD however, lobby for relief from it through the Access Board.

Unfortunately, trying to get something from the federal government in a timely manner would 

[ probably not ] be cost effective.    Mech' factory owner could build it and Accessibly equip

the shower and be long gone before Uncle Sam would get a response back to him/her.    I would also

ask the local BO for input as well.

*" ...finishing up my humble pie now!"* 

.


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## JBI (Jan 22, 2010)

Re: Separate single user shower room required?

globe - There are plenty of code provisions I don't agree with, some because they go too far and some that don't go far enough. During my training, our instructors were always pretty adamant about the H/C regs and were quick to point out that NYS would not likely offer ANY relief from H/C requirements due to the Federal mandate they grew out of.


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## TimNY (Jan 22, 2010)

Re: Separate single user shower room required?

Also would like to point out that exception 1 allows for the private bathroom to be converted to accessible in the event the occupant of the office is disabled.  It really yields no leverage for an appeal in this case.

Clear floor space is still required.  The door swing would be reversed to make the compartment compliant.

Similarly the blocking is there for required handrails, and the WC can easily be swapped out.

In a shower situation I can't think of any way to construct it for "future accessibility".  Maybe omission of the handrails could be applied for.

I will confirm that NYS was pretty adamant about accessibility


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## globe trekker (Jan 22, 2010)

Re: Separate single user shower room required?

John,

Acknowledged about the H/C regs.!         But for a 'non-required' fixture to be H/C equipped seems like overkill to me.

I certainly do not want to restrict/hamper the impaired population, but this particular case just doesn't set well

with me, ...of 'requiring' something to be H/C accessible when that fixture [ convenience ] is not even required by code.

Also, I was trying to give you some props for being "spot on" on the code section and language.   



.


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## JBI (Jan 22, 2010)

Re: Separate single user shower room required?

globe - Thanks. :ugeek: Somebody's got to fill in for Gene...


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## TJacobs (Jan 22, 2010)

Re: Separate single user shower room required?

Is there a logical reason for it NOT to be accessible, like "technically infeasible"?

3409.6 Alterations.

A building, facility or element that is altered shall comply with the applicable provisions in Chapter 11 and ICC A117.1, unless technically infeasible. Where compliance with this section is technically infeasible, the alteration shall provide access to the maximum extent technically feasible.

Exceptions:

1.	The altered element or space is not required to be on an accessible route, unless required by Section 3409.7.

2.	Accessible means of egress required by Chapter 10 are not required to be provided in existing buildings and facilities.

3.	The alteration to Type A individually owned dwelling units within a Group R-2 occupancy shall meet the provision for a Type B dwelling unit and shall comply with the applicable provisions in Chapter 11 and ICC/ANSI A117.1.

3409.8.9 Toilet rooms.

Where it is technically infeasible to alter existing toilet and bathing facilities to be accessible, an accessible unisex toilet or bathing facility is permitted. The unisex facility shall be located on the same floor and in the same area as the existing facilities.

Why is the question always "why do I have to make this accessible" instead of "how can I make this accessible?"


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## JBI (Jan 22, 2010)

Re: Separate single user shower room required?

Jake - That's an easy one... Because most of us aren't handicapped! (at least not the type of handicap that would require accessible features! :lol: )


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## globe trekker (Jan 22, 2010)

Re: Separate single user shower room required?

TJacobs asked:



> *Why is the question always "why do I have to make this accessible" instead of "how can I make this accessible?"*


Because spending money is involved!    

.


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## TJacobs (Jan 22, 2010)

Re: Separate single user shower room required?



			
				globe trekker said:
			
		

> TJacobs asked:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because spending money is involved!    

It was a rhetorical question, but thanks anyway for bursting my warped view of utopia...  :|


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## globe trekker (Jan 22, 2010)

Re: Separate single user shower room required?

Sorry Jake!    I'm kinda slow.    

As ' north star ' has stated on here before,  "It's always about the money!"



.


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