# PVC DWV Install phot



## jar546 (Oct 5, 2010)

Just something to look at and comment about:


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## north star (Oct 5, 2010)

*.       =   .   =*

I'll start with a few comments:

[1]   Air testing of pvc pipe is a "no no!"

[2]   What, ...they couldn't put the piping ' inside ' the stud cavities?

[3]   Those clean outs are going to be a problem for whoever opens

        them up for augering.

[4]   The piping is not fastened in place. ...anywhere!



*=      .       =   .*


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## jar546 (Oct 5, 2010)

1) It was water tested and he attached the gauge at the bottom to see what the pressure was with 10' of head

2) Superior walls, concrete webs

3) I agree completely

4) I agree completely


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## Francis Vineyard (Oct 6, 2010)

Jeff please do tell what is the pressure with 10' of head?


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## vegas paul (Oct 6, 2010)

Francis - the pressure is 10' of head!  (which equals 4.33 psig)  But somehow I detect enough sarcasm in your question to indicate that you knew that!


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## jim baird (Oct 6, 2010)

Is that a tee laying sideways where it turns into the wall?


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## jar546 (Oct 6, 2010)

jim baird said:
			
		

> Is that a tee laying sideways where it turns into the wall?


No, its a Wye

And I actually forgot what the pressure was.  That is a good question.  I should have written that down.


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## vegas paul (Oct 6, 2010)

jar - how could the pressure be anything other than 10' of head (=4.33 psig) when there is 10' of head on the system?  Static head is dependent only upon the height of the water column in this case.


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## Mule (Oct 6, 2010)

Going in reverse.... it would take 2.31 vertical feet of pipe to have 1 pound of pressure. So as VP stated 1 foot vertical equals roughly 4.33 psig. That is why the code allows 5 pounds of air pressure on a test in lieu of 10 feet of head pressure.


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## skipharper (Oct 6, 2010)

Love those superior walls!! Any plumber that use's the j hooks is getting out of the gate on the right foot. No idea why the 2 vertical dead ends. Strap all piping per table and all is good.


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## Francis Vineyard (Oct 7, 2010)

I’m not good with math as I used to be and as I should be.  Normally I would see a single head of water, this photo shows at least 3 verticals over 10’ tied together, I wonder if lets say there are two joined stacks filled to 10’, does this give the same pressure as a single 20’ of head?

Vegas Paul, I appreciate the constructive criticism of how I ask the question, it is just as important as knowing what to ask.  Something I need to improve on.


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## vegas paul (Oct 7, 2010)

Two joined stacks at 10' yield the same pressure as one single 10' stack...   regardless of diameter or # of stacks, the height is the only important factor for static head.


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## north star (Oct 7, 2010)

*>*

Mule stated:



> *That is why the code allows 5 pounds of air pressure on a test in lieu of 10 feet of head pressure**.*


 I will have to respectfully take issue with you on this. Section 312.1 does not allow air to be

used on plastic ( pvc ) piping.

*2006 IPC - Section 312.1 & 2006 IRC - P2506.3:* " ...All plumbing system piping shall

be tested with either water or, for piping systems other than plastic, by air."

*<*


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## Mule (Oct 7, 2010)

north star said:
			
		

> *>*Mule stated:
> 
> I will have to respectfully take issue with you on this. Section 312.1 does not allow air to be
> 
> ...


I see the section where it is not allowed in the 2006 IPC but I don't have a section P2506.3 in my 2006 IRC nor do I find where air is not allowed on PVC.

Do you mean P2503.6? If you are then that section is refering to Water Supply System not the DWV.

So in this situation, since this is posted in the Commercial Plumbing section I would say you are correct. However if this were to be a residential application I need help as to where you can't perform an air test on DWV for residential.

Have I overlooked this in the code?


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 7, 2010)

2006 IRC Looks like air testing is allowed under the IRC

P2503.5.1 Rough plumbing.

DWV systems shall be tested on completion of the rough piping installation by water or air with no evidence of leakage. Either test shall be applied to the drainage system in its entirety or in sections after rough piping has been installed, as follows:

1. Water test. Each section shall be filled with water to a point not less than 10 feet (3048 mm) above the highest fitting connection in that section, or to the highest point in the completed system. Water shall be held in the section under test for a period of 15 minutes. The system shall prove leak free by visual inspection.

2. Air test. The portion under test shall be maintained at a gauge pressure of 5 pounds per square inch (psi) (34 kPa) or 10 inches of mercury column (34 kPa). This pressure shall be held without introduction of additional air for a period of 15 minutes.


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## north star (Oct 7, 2010)

*> > >*

Mule & mtlogcabin,

Ooooops, ...my mistake!  You are correct, it should have been Section

P2503.5.1 in the `06 IRC. I should not have cited that code section,

especially since this topic is in the ' Commercial Plumbing ' Thread, and it is

an incorrect [ code ] interpretation on my part.

Do you have any input as to why the Commerical side is more restrictive in

this area, than the Residential is? Seems like a conflict to me, to allow

"testing-by-air" in the Residential applications and NOT in the Commercial.

Your thoughts!

*< < <*


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## north star (Oct 7, 2010)

*~ ~ ~*

FWIW, I have requested some input / clarification from a pvc pipe manufacturer

on this topic.

I will post the information on here when I receive it.

*~ ~ ~*


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## rshuey (Oct 7, 2010)

I like the "OSB slope"


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## Glennman CBO (Oct 7, 2010)

If he only added the gauge to see what the head pressure is, then what is the black hose for?


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## Mule (Oct 7, 2010)

Well I did make it sound like air was allowed in commercial testing.......my bad!


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## pwood (Oct 7, 2010)

Glennman CBO said:
			
		

> If he only added the gauge to see what the head pressure is, then what is the black hose for?


 fill the pipe without getting air pockets, drain the pipe!


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## north star (Oct 27, 2010)

** * * **

Sorry for the delay in getting back with some information.

I e-mailed two pvc pipe manufacturers asking for input on their

products. They were Charlotte Pipe Co. and JM Eagle Co.

While both representatives did say that their companies warn against

the effects of pressure testing pvc pipe with air, apparently they DO

allow it, but in low pressure amounts only. Typically, ...somewhere

below the 9 psi amount.

*From Charlotte Pipe Co.*

"Charlotte Pipe and Foundry Company recommends testing a DWV

system at 10 feet of hydrostatic pressure (4.3 pounds per square

inch.)........ASTM D 1785 has two notes regarding compresses air or

gases......*Note 1*. - Pressurizes compressed air or other

compressed gases contain large amounts of stored energy which

present serious safety hazards should a system fail for any reason.

*Note 2*. - This standard specifies dimensional, performance and

test requirements for plumbing and fluid handling applications,

but does not address venting of combustion gases......You can

compress the molecules in air, but you cannot compress the

molecules in water.......We have a warning stating testing with

compressed air or gases in PVC/ABS/CPVC pipe or fittings

can result in explosive failures and cause severe injury or death.

The 2006 International Plumbing Code, as well as, the 2009

latest edition, Section 312.1 Required Tests......All plumbing

system piping shall be tested with either water or, for piping

systems other than plastic, by air..........Some people confuse

Section 312.2 Drainage and vent air test as an allowable test

for plastic piping.......This is not correct!........Section 312.1 is

very plain that all plumbing systems are to be tested with

water or for piping systems other than plastic, by air."

*From JM Eagle:*

"JM position in this case is wherever the code and local

jurisdiction allows for air test we recommend for low pressure

air test of DWV PVC pipe".

If anyone wants a copy of the Acrobat files sent from JM

Eagle, send me a PM and I will forward them to you.

** * * **


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## Jobsaver (Oct 27, 2010)

It was explained to me once at a training meeting that the reason air tests on plastic DWV systems are not allowed is because of the likelihood of injury from test caps popping.


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