# Ramp with Mid Landing Exit Point "Turning" Zone?



## TZJR (Feb 27, 2019)

Hello Everyone,

Working on a project with a mid landing exit between two ramp runs and I am questioning the how the turning zone is set.  See the plan view and comment please, I already call out the reduced hr width because of the column.


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## steveray (Feb 27, 2019)

Look in ANSI for doorways without doors for maneuvering as well as ramp landings where the landing has to be as wide as the widest ramp run.....


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## TZJR (Feb 27, 2019)

Steve,

ANSI current & past & the ADA 2010 are the same and use the same wording and figures.

In this location you come down the first ramp to a mid landing that allows you to exit right to a floor level or continue across and descend down a second ramp to the lower level. 

The way I read the requirement because of the 90 degree turn on the mid landing, being a 3 way intersection, this is a change in direction (yes/no), does it not require a full 60 inch turning zone?

Next the designer only allowed 60 inches to cross the ramp and drew the ramp handrails as 12" overall rather than understanding that the 12" is to the inside of the return to the wall or down, ADA figure 505.10.1 & ANSI Figure 505.10.1., Thus reduces the opening between the handrail extensions from 36" by 3-5/16" and is less than the minimum 36" requirement. 

From my read of the all three "model codes" IBC, ANSI A117.1 & 2010 ADA standard I am looking for way to understand why you need a 60" turning zone at a 90 degree turn in ramp direction but not the same clearance at a mid landing turning off to a floor level?

Though I would have gotten more comments on this one.

Regards - Tom


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## steveray (Feb 27, 2019)

TZJR said:


> From my read of the all three "model codes" IBC, ANSI A117.1 & 2010 ADA standard I am looking for way to understand why you need a 60" turning zone at a 90 degree turn in ramp direction but not the same clearance at a mid landing turning off to a floor level?



I ASSUME...that it is because a ramp transition is more hazardous than a "floor" transition...?


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## Builder Bob (Mar 1, 2019)

The requirement is for an accessible turning radius or t turn to be provided IF the door is lockable........ if the door is a case opening or a door without an lock, the turning radius or tee turn would not be required in addition to the required width of the landing.


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## steveray (Mar 1, 2019)

404.2.3.4 Doorways without Doors. Doorways without
doors that are less than 36 inches (915 mm) in width
shall have maneuvering clearances complying with
Table 404.2.3.4

It might be a stretch to call it a doorway, but I believe the intent is there...


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