# Challenge me please



## ICE (Jul 16, 2011)

In my first week as an inspector I came across an a/c coil in an attic with no smitty pan.  It had two condensate drains.  I had never seen such an arrangement and wrote a correction to install a pan.  The following day I asked another inspector about that and he explained that a pan is not required by code and the two drains is the why.

As soon as he got done talking, I called the contractor and told him that I was wrong about the pan.  The contr. said he knew that and has already installed the pan.  I asked why he did that, knowing that I was wrong.  He said that he didn't want to take the chance of ****ing me off.  He also said that he has never gotten a call from an inspector trying to right a wrong.

I told him that it is unfair to me if he won't correct me when I am wrong.  I can't be expected to know everything and I want to know when I am wrong.  Always challenge me if you think I am full of crap, you might be right and if so, I will thank you for it.


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## fatboy (Jul 16, 2011)

And crow is best eaten when warm, doesn't make it any tastier, just best to get it done. Speaking from experience.........Yes, I would rather have it pointed out if I misinterpret the code.


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## Mark K (Jul 16, 2011)

The reality is that most contractors and designers will generally do what the inspector wants.  In all too many cases the inspector or plan checker will resist any suggestion that they were wrong.


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## RJJ (Jul 16, 2011)

I have no problem when I am wrong with being corrected. I agree with Mark that most often the contractor will just say what do you want. I like a good debate if the contractor is on top of things and there can be a number of ways to meet or exceed code. I very seldom fine a good discussion. Most of the debate centers along they let me do this in all the other towns.

I have learn to raise the flag for maybe it is wrong and research the code correctly for the proper answer. Then I explain the issue if it is wrong or state they are fine.


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## fatboy (Jul 16, 2011)

I love a good debate also........hence my signature line............


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## RJJ (Jul 16, 2011)

Well good pigs are far and few these days and mud is only found at the tractor pull. Hence very little enjoyment.


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## chris kennedy (Jul 16, 2011)

RJJ said:
			
		

> I very seldom fine a good discussion.


I hate to correct you but for the sake of clarification, you fine the contractor, not the discussion.


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## Architect1281 (Jul 16, 2011)

In Most of the seminars I run for Architects / Suppliers / and Contractors the following information is on a slide I call

"Rules of Engagement" when dealing with a inspector / official

What Are the Rules

1.) NAABOWTW (never as a building official what they want)  It' like asking a used car salesman what they want for the vehicle..> prepare and submit for review and approval

2.) The codes are Not RETROACTIVE – (yet?)

3.) Everything is Appealing !!! Ask for a quote from the BIBLE ! if wrong ask for forgiveness

     (We all read from the same book if you want different opinions of a good book buy a bible)

4.) Codes are Minimum Standards > You can’t do any worse than the codes require

I strive to learn something new every day - so Challenge Challenge Challenge !!!


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## ICE (Jul 16, 2011)

RJJ said:
			
		

> I have no problem when I am wrong with being corrected. I agree with Mark that most often the contractor will just say what do you want. I like a good debate if the contractor is on top of things and there can be a number of ways to meet or exceed code. I very seldom fine a good discussion. *Most of the debate centers along they let me do this in all the other towns.*I have learn to raise the flag for maybe it is wrong and research the code correctly for the proper answer. Then I explain the issue if it is wrong or state they are fine.


Not long ago I had a contractor shouting at me "They let me do it in Long Beach".  After about the fifth time I said "Well I'm going to let you make it easy on yourself.  You can either do the corrections or drag this house to Long Beach".


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## brudgers (Jul 16, 2011)

fatboy said:
			
		

> And crow is best eaten when warm, doesn't make it any tastier, just best to get it done. Speaking from experience.........Yes, I would rather have it pointed out if I misinterpret the code.


But will you please thank me next time?


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## ICE (Jul 16, 2011)

brudgers said:
			
		

> But will you please thank me next time?


Oh you are a hound dog Brudgers.


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## ICE (Jul 16, 2011)

Mark K said:
			
		

> The reality is that most contractors and designers *will generally do what the inspector wants*.  In all too many cases the inspector or plan checker will resist any suggestion that they were wrong.


And that has produced strange, misguided, ridiculous outcomes.

Last week I had a 25'x40' house.  There was a detail called out that showed a section of a braced wall. The detail was called out on an interior wall that had a continuous footing but the framing plan didn't show the wall as being braced.  There was no bracing or transfer.  As soon as I questioned this, the contractor said he would install it.

I told him no.  The structure has been engineered.  What do I know, I'm no engineer.  But it does seem odd, so let's ask my engineer.  My engineer said it wasn't necessary.  The perimeter had enough braced wall line for two houses.  That much I knew but the misplaced detail threw me off and just because I asked the question, the contractor was going to re-engineer the building.

On a hotel fire job I had to deal with a neophyte superintendent.  It took four inspections for everything.  On rough plumbing, he failed twice for lack of nail plates.  The third time he pointed out that there were plates on every pipe, and there were, even for steel gas pipe.  I told him that he has done much better this time but he has used the wrong plates for the gas pipe.  He was confused so I explained that they must be made from depleted uranium.  Now he's really confused so I explained that he must have training and a certification to handle depleted uranium nail plates.

He called his project manager and I heard him say "I need to go to a class".  Ya the back of the class.

The point is never blindly do what an inspector tells you.  Hell it could be me.


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## TJacobs (Jul 17, 2011)

depleted uranium...now that's priceless!


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## TimNY (Jul 18, 2011)

I just did a framing inspection on a home.. fancy designed home.  In the middle of the floor there is a Simpson Strong wall... secured with 3/4" rods that are welded to the massive beam below.

Problem is.. it's freestanding.  Doesn't extend to an exterior wall nor to the ceiling or any other wall.  Look at the detail.. Sure enough something was changed by the arch; the wall was supposed to extend to the exterior wall.

Contractor says, "I thought that was strange, but that's what the plans said, so I did it"..

Don't forget to challenge the designer, too!


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## steveray (Jul 18, 2011)

I agree TL....and encourage the same thing with all of the contractors here...making up code is just as detrimental as not having people follow it....we all should be working toward a common goal, which should be good, safe buildings, so why can't we discuss it and learn from each other.....

I know that is why I am here....


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## Alias (Jul 18, 2011)

fatboy said:
			
		

> And crow is best eaten when warm, doesn't make it any tastier, just best to get it done. Speaking from experience.........Yes, I would rather have it pointed out if I misinterpret the code.


Agreed, fatboy.

I hate it when the contractor wants to know 'what do you want'.  *mutter* I want a set of plans on the jobsite, not in your truck!

I explain to them that there are many options and it is up to them and their designer to pick them.  I do not design or build, just inspect.


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