# Expired Permit



## jar546 (May 1, 2020)

How would your jurisdiction handle the following scenario, IF you were to follow your local ordinance, county or state statutes if they applied?

Permit applied, reviewed, approved, paid for and issued.  Work never begins.  At the 180 day mark the permit expires.  One year AFTER the permit expires you get a phone call from the contractor wanting to reinstate the permit.  Since it was expired with no work started, it was sent to storage.

Do you:

1) Require a new permit to be applied for?
2) Go through the trouble of retrieving it from storage, reinstate and activate the permit?
3) Other.  Please explain.

In my case under state statute, the permit is expired and they have to reapply for a new one.  We require an NOC which expires after a year anyway.  Unless there were some inspections, an extenuating circumstance such as pre-approval for the delay and the work was substantially completed in the opinion of the AHJ, it is simply null and void and a new one is needed.


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## classicT (May 1, 2020)

Unless we have gone through a new code adoption, we typically just reinstate it and move on.

We do this for two reasons: 1) we do not charge for residential plan reviews, 2) we store all residential plans electronically.

Given those two reasons, it is just an efficiency call on our part.


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## mtlogcabin (May 1, 2020)

Same here.  what was the reason it it never started? Where they waiting on permit approval from another agency such as flood permit, army corps of engineers


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## cda (May 1, 2020)

New plans and permit.

How do you know they would build to the old plans??


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## Keystone (May 1, 2020)

Same as Ty J.


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## Rick18071 (May 1, 2020)

I think it would matter if you were working for a government (nonprofit) or if you were a 3rd party that works for a profit.


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## classicT (May 1, 2020)

cda said:


> New plans and permit.
> 
> How do you know they would build to the old plans??


When we reinstate, we do ask that they review the plans. If plan has changed, they must resubmit. Resubmitted plans are reviewed and invoiced at an hourly rate.


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## jar546 (May 1, 2020)

Rick18071 said:


> I think it would matter if you were working for a government (nonprofit) or if you were a 3rd party that works for a profit.


That should have zero bearing.  The only deciding factor should be state statutes, county & local ordinances that address this situation.


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## Rick18071 (May 4, 2020)

I was assigned to go through over 1,000 expired permits in a township once. Took me a year. Some were never started, had some overgrown foundations and some just needed a final inspection. All the permits were issued by other third party inspection companies which use to be there and got the permit fee.The township didn't want to charge the permit holders or renew the permits. So the township paid my company hourly to do the work. Of course this meant all of the township taxpayers paid for the work I did to close or C. O. these old open permits. Did not seem fair to the taxpayers to me.


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## Keystone (May 4, 2020)

Rick18071 said:


> I was assigned to go through over 1,000 expired permits in a township once. Took me a year. Some were never started, had some overgrown foundations and some just needed a final inspection. All the permits were issued by other third party inspection companies which use to be there and got the permit fee.The township didn't want to charge the permit holders or renew the permits. So the township paid my company hourly to do the work. Of course this meant all of the township taxpayers paid for the work I did to close or C. O. these old open permits. Did not seem fair to the taxpayers to me.



That is an all to familiar issue!


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## steveray (May 5, 2020)

We try not to "steal" peoples money.....


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## Darren Emery (May 5, 2020)

I'm with Jar regarding following the rules in place - the cost (income) associated with the process is a ramification of applying the rules, not a reason or cause for a decision one way or the other.

 A new application and permit would be required in our jurisdiction.


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## jar546 (May 5, 2020)

Darren Emery said:


> I'm with Jar regarding following the rules in place - the cost (income) associated with the process is a ramification of applying the rules, not a reason or cause for a decision one way or the other.
> 
> A new application and permit would be required in our jurisdiction.


Here, here.  It is about consistency with the rules.


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## mtlogcabin (May 5, 2020)

The Op stated the for never began therefore the jurisdiction incurred no inspection cost. I could see an administration cost to update the permit but not the entire cost of the permit and plan review. If I remember right it was under the SBCCI or maybe a local thing a permit renewal was 25% of the permit fee only. 

Do  you give refunds where projects have not started? We do 100% of permit fees. We do not refund plan review fees since that work was completed


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## steveray (May 5, 2020)

MT got what I was getting at....We have no refunds as a Town ordinance, but I am trying to change that where we can only keep costs of services rendered....


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## jar546 (May 5, 2020)

A new permit has to be applied for but if the old permit expired without work starting or having inspections, we credit the amount of the old permit towards the new permit fee.


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## mtlogcabin (May 5, 2020)

thats fair


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## jar546 (May 5, 2020)

mtlogcabin said:


> thats fair



Sometimes that is the difference between and old and new code cycle.


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## ICE (May 5, 2020)

If we have never made an inspection and it is a building permit the applicant can get a refund of 80%.  If we have made even one inspection there is no refund available. Plan check fees are not eligible for a refund and it's the same for mep permits.

It has happened that a building permit is taken out to legalize some jacked up mess of construction and when I arrive for the first inspection my reaction is, "No way in Hell will this survive".  I explain the rules and tell them to ask for a refund.


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## tmurray (May 6, 2020)

Our by-law stipulates once the permit is issued and paid for, the permit fees may be refunded by 50% where the work was not started within 6 months from the date of permit issuance. We do not charge a plan review fee.

For the OP question. Our permits expire after 1 year, so the permit holder would need to apply for a renewal. Our by-laws allow some discretion here, so we have worked with those people who just needed a final inspection without charging an additional fee. If there is still a significant number of work to do, we would charge the renewal fee.

The renewal fee just covers any administration and is fairly minimal maxing out at $300. I've only charged it twice in 10 years.

The thing to keep in mind with refunds, there are time when you are going back into fiscal years that might be closed or even have been fully audited. This can psoe a challenge for your accounting department, so before creating a refund policy, you might want to speak with them.


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## Min&Max (May 6, 2020)

Here you would start over. New app, new review and pay full fee after project being dormant for 180 days.


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## my250r11 (May 6, 2020)

This is how NM deals with it:

*14.5.2.14               EXPIRATION AND DEACTIVATION OF PERMIT:*

*                A.            Expiration.*  Every permit issued by the AHJ expire and be void if the work authorized by such permit is not commenced within 180 days from the date such permit was issued.

*                B.            Deactivation.*  If the work authorized by a permit is suspended, delayed or abandoned at any time after the work is commenced and such suspension, delay or abandonment continues for 180 days, the permit shall become inactive.

*(1)* *Reactivation.*  An inactive permit may be reactivated if the work resumes within one year from the date the permit was issued, upon approval of the AHJ and payment of required fees. Such reactivated permit will authorize work only to the extent it conforms to the submission documents on which the original permit was issued.

*(2)* *Cancellation.*  If work does not resume within one year from the date the inactive permit was issued, the inactive permit will automatically cancel. In order for work on the project to continue, a new permit application must be submitted, a new, full permit fee must be remitted, and a new permit issued.

*                C.            Extension of time.*  The CBO or TBC may extend the time of an active permit for an additional period not to exceed 180 days on receipt of a written request from the permit holder showing that circumstances beyond the control of the permitee have caused delay in the permitted work.

*                D.            Penalties.*  Any work performed after a permit expires, cancels or becomes inactive shall be considered a failure to permit violation pursuant to Subsection A of 14.5.2.8 NMAC.


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## Rick18071 (May 6, 2020)

It's simple here. 2,560 jurisdictions in PA all have different changing policies about this.


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## Builder Bob (May 8, 2020)

New process where I came from, New plan review fee, new permit fee.


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