# Go ahead. Tear it apart.



## MASSDRIVER

A pleasurable day of installing a water heater. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








Brent

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## steveray

Look at that insulation!!! The Green police would be so happy!....I tried to get 3" B vent the other day for my garage heater and the supply house doesn't even stock it anymore around here....


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## ICE

Is there a drain pipe connected to the smitty pan?

There is no p-trap on the coil condensate drain and what about the secondary?  Come to think of it, the furnace might need a condensate drain too.

Is the duct tape covering a bullet hole?

I see that the missing door is weather stipped....what have you got going on for combustion air?

And by the way, four inches is just about the width of your hand.


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## Chad Pasquini

I am very impressed that you installed the sediment trap


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## north star

*~ ~ & ~ ~*



Brent,

Reckon where the pan & T & P valve drain line actually drain to ?

Us Code Police are on the case.      :grin:





*~ ~ & ~ ~*


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## MASSDRIVER

Pulls its air from a grate in front of the furnace from the crawl space.

Got the pan drain and blowoff going directly outside, turndown with 6" clearance above grade. The old blowoff went right into the crawl.

Redid the insulation on pipes today because I thought my little helper did a shltty job. Looks no e and clean now, and leveled that strap. All the traps and drains are good on the fau.

Brent


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## mtlogcabin

Chad Pasquini said:
			
		

> I am very impressed that you installed the sediment trap


Are you sure it is a sediment trap and not a drip leg? ;-)


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## jdfruit

What is behind the duct tape/fiberglass on the vent?


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## north star

*= + = + =*





> "Are you sure it is a sediment trap and not a drip leg ?"


These are [ essentially ] the same thing.*+ = + = +*


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## MASSDRIVER

The insulation is a remnant. The whole b vent was wrapped and duct taped for some unknown reason.

I cleaned it off of course.

Brent.


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## steveray

north star said:
			
		

> *= + = + =*These are [ essentially ] the same thing.
> 
> *+ = + = +*


Sediment traps can be outside, drip legs cannot....


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## Pcinspector1

Scotch makes a 200° duct tape, better check the label Mass!

pc1


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## mtlogcabin

If the gas company certifies their product as "dry" then a drip leg is not required.

A drip leg is required more often then sediment traps.

Just trying to get others on here to think about what we may be requiring that may not be applicable in certain areas


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## ICE

I tend to not approve transitions from single wall to B vent without the correct fitting... especially when the appliance is indoors.  In this case there is a significant gap that will act like another draft hood.  Generally, leaks aren't a big deal since they aid the flow of hot gasses but it can get to be too much cold air getting in.


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## Darren Emery

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> If the gas company certifies their product as "dry" then a drip leg is not required.A drip leg is required more often then sediment traps.
> 
> Just trying to get others on here to think about what we may be requiring that may not be applicable in certain areas


Based upon 2012IRC, my understanding is that a sediment trap is always required, other than the specific appliance exceptions (ranges, clothes dryer, etc).  And - the sed trap should be installed at a vertical to horizontal transition - not as shown on in the pic.


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## mtlogcabin

View attachment 1130


I agreeG2419.1 (408.1) Slopes.Piping for other than dry gas conditions shall be sloped not less than 0.25 inch in 15 feet (6.4 mm in 4572 mm) to prevent traps.G2419.2 (408.2) Drips.Where wet gas exists, a drip shall be provided at any point in the line of pipe where condensate could collect. A drip shall also be provided at the outlet of the meter and shall be installed so as to constitute a trap wherein an accumulation of condensate will shut off the flow of gas before the condensate will run back into the meter.G2419.3 (408.3) Location of drips.Drips shall be provided with ready access to permit cleaning or emptying. A drip shall not be located where the condensate is subject to freezing.G2419.4 (408.4) Sediment trap.Where a sediment trap is not incorporated as part of the appliance, a sediment trap shall be installed downstream of the appliance shutoff valve as close to the inlet of the appliance as practical. The sediment trap shall be either a tee fitting having a capped nipple of any length installed vertically in the bottommost opening of the tee as illustrated in Figure G2419.4 or other device approved as an effective sediment trap. Illuminating appliances, ranges, clothes dryers, decorative vented appliances for installation in vented fireplaces, gas fireplaces, and outdoor grills need not be so equipped.
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 1130


/monthly_2015_01/sediemnt.JPG.9fdd1e703d8ab15f4cbf28e8e87191f4.JPG


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## Pcinspector1

G2419.3 (408.3) Location of drips.

Drips shall be provided with ready access to permit cleaning or emptying. A drip shall not be located where the condensate is subject to freezing.

I ran into that one on a RTU the GAS line never entered the building and it was subject to freezing.

pc1


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## steveray

Pcinspector1 said:
			
		

> G2419.3 (408.3) Location of drips.Drips shall be provided with ready access to permit cleaning or emptying. A drip shall not be located where the condensate is subject to freezing.
> 
> I ran into that one on a RTU the GAS line never entered the building and it was subject to freezing.
> 
> pc1


I have seen entire strip malls done with all of the piping exterior and it has never been an issue (20yrs or so).....That being said....I do not allow it in new installs.....Unless someone wants to wrestle a letter out of the utility....


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## pete_t

Darren Emery said:
			
		

> Based upon 2012IRC, my understanding is that a sediment trap is always required, other than the specific appliance exceptions (ranges, clothes dryer, etc).  And - the sed trap should be installed at a vertical to horizontal transition - not as shown on in the pic.


CA 2013 CPC has similar requirements.*1210.8.3 Sediment Traps*. The installation of sedimenttraps shall comply with Section 1211.8. [NFPA 54-12:7.6.3]*1211.8 Sediment Trap*. Where a sediment trap is not incor-porated as a part of the appliance, a sediment trap shall be in-stalled downstream of the appliance shutoff valve as close tothe inlet of the appliance as practical at the time of applianceinstallation. The sediment trap shall be either a tee fitting witha capped nipple in the bottom outlet, as illustrated in Figure1211.8, or other device recognized as an effective sedimenttrap. Illuminating appliances, ranges, clothes dryers, decora-tive appliances for installation in vented fireplaces, gas fire- and outdoor grills shall not be required to be so[NFPA 54:9.6.7]
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 1131


View attachment 1131


/monthly_2015_01/572953d4cb05d_1211-8trap.JPG.4d296829daa80d8232830ed6fb019e2f.JPG


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## mtlogcabin

> .Unless someone wants to wrestle a letter out of the utility....


Our gas company was happy to provide the letter. The fewer fittings in a system the fewer chances of a leak.


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## MASSDRIVER

Go ahead. Tear it apart.

Well, because some of you overly anal mofo's pointed out my complete disregard for the pluming codes and had multiple anurisms over my badly assembled debris trap, I took the time today to revisit the last few water heaters I installed and orient the trap the correct damn way, even though they passed inspection. I made sure the one I did today was up to y'all's unrealistic expectations.







Brent

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pyrguy

Is that water in the drain pan?  Left over or is there a leak.


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## mtlogcabin

> was up to y'all's unrealistic expectations


Don't blame us because you haven' been complying with the code  

I thought you did a bang up job for a framer :grin:


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## ICE

It would be a bonus if there were a gas shutoff valve.  Sticking one on the cold water isn't a bad idea either.


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## mtlogcabin

Now if the P & T drain terminates into the pan that does not meet code. Hard to tell by the picture


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## ICE

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Now if the P & T drain terminates into the pan that does not meet code. Hard to tell by the picture


I blew it up and it clearly drains under the house.  Same as the smitty pan.


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## MASSDRIVER

Like a pack of rabid ferrets you guys.

I put valves hot and cold as a practice. You can't see the cold shutoff.

Both drains daylight from there and are turned down. Gas shutoff is there.

Water in the pan is from a miscommunication "incident" with my helper. I got wet.

Be still your little hearts, I cleaned up and mopped.

Brent.


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## ICE

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> I thought you did a bang up job for a framer :grin:


Well now he is a Jill of all trades.


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## pete_t

Here's a nitpick for you:

Watts

http://www.watts.com/pages/support/tp.asp?catId=64

*Water Safety & Flow Control Support - Helpful Tools and Resources*

"… _Excessive length over 30' (9.14m), or __use of more than four elbows__ or reducing discharge line size will cause a restriction and reduce the discharge capacity of the valve_. …"


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## MASSDRIVER

ICE said:
			
		

> Well now he is a Jill of all trades.


ICE's screen saver.

Brent


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## ICE

pete_t said:
			
		

> Here's a nitpick for you:Watts
> 
> http://www.watts.com/pages/support/tp.asp?catId=64
> 
> *Water Safety & Flow Control Support - Helpful Tools and Resources*
> 
> "… _Excessive length over 30' (9.14m), or __use of more than four elbows__ or reducing discharge line size will cause a restriction and reduce the discharge capacity of the valve_. …"


Oh no........not that....after he burnt the wall and all.


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## pete_t

ICE said:
			
		

> Oh no......


The sky is falling...


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## ICE

I'm a cat person so here's my screen saver.  But now that you mention it Brent, there's not a lot of difference.  We could ask your helper about that.


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## MASSDRIVER

Long hair is a commitment.

Brent.


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## MASSDRIVER

pete_t said:
			
		

> Here's a nitpick for you:Watts
> 
> http://www.watts.com/pages/support/tp.asp?catId=64
> 
> *Water Safety & Flow Control Support - Helpful Tools and Resources*
> 
> "… _Excessive length over 30' (9.14m), or __use of more than four elbows__ or reducing discharge line size will cause a restriction and reduce the discharge capacity of the valve_. …"


Don't you have someplace you need to be?

Brent.


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## jar546

If MASSDRIVER did the job then it is 100% perfect no matter how ****ty or non-code compliant it really is.  After all……..it works doesn't it?


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## MASSDRIVER

jar546 said:
			
		

> If MASSDRIVER did the job then it is 100% perfect no matter how ****ty or non-code compliant it really is.  After all……..it works doesn't it?


Finally. Someone who understands.

Brent.


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## jar546

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> Finally. Someone who understands.Brent.


Yes Brent.  I've understood you all along.


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## steveray

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Don't blame us because you haven' been complying with the code   I thought you did a bang up job for a framer :grin:


Still wondering how he gets the solder to melt with his Estwing......Must have to hit it really hard to generate that much heat...


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## mtlogcabin

ICE said:
			
		

> I blew it up and it clearly drains under the house.  Same as the smitty pan.


FYI

UPC does not allow it to terminate under the house.


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## ICE

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> FYIUPC does not allow it to terminate under the house.


I'm pretty sure that Brent knows that.


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## MASSDRIVER

steveray said:
			
		

> Still wondering how he gets the solder to melt with his Estwing......Must have to hit it really hard to generate that much heat...


I just look at and think about the Seahawks last play call.

It melts.

Brent.


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## steveray

The guy that called that needs to be drawn and quartered...And I am not even a fan....


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## fireguy

I replaced my gas water heater recently.  The second since I have lived in my house.   This time, I put the manual gas shut off between the gas pipe and the flex hose.  But I did not put any shut off valves between the water flex hoses and the water pipe. I don't know why, I have 1/2 wog valves in the van.  I did have to dig more of the dirt floor out because this water heater is taller than the previous heater.  And I put some concrete blocks on the dirt this time.  If I make it another 20 years, maybe I will do it right at that time.

Tough crowd.  I am so glad I did not post any pictures!


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## mtlogcabin

> I did have to dig more of the dirt floor out because this water heater is taller than the previous heater.


So is it in the crawls space?

Come on man up and post some pictures .


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## Pcinspector1

It's not polite to look up a guy's kilt when he's working!


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## fireguy

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> So is it in the crawls space?Come on man up and post some pictures .


No, it is in the non-crawl space. But in 1890, cellars did have dirt floors.  Unless they put pieces of left over wood flooring on top of the dirt.


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