# NFPA  vs.  ICC



## north star (Apr 27, 2014)

*+ ~ + ~ +*

In reading ***Glen**'* recent posting on _*"Big Changes To ICC*_

_*CEU Requirements"*_,   ...I am wondering if there is an alternative

to the ICC Regime out there.

*Questions:*

* 1.*  Does the NFPA offer certifications similar to the ICC ?

*2.*  Would the NFPA  accept \ transfer ICC certifications in to the

     NFPA system ?

*3.*  If not the NFPA,  ...then who  [ if anybody  ] ?

*4.*  In view of these changes coming to the ICC, ...does anyone on

       here plan to continue obtaining CEU's from the ICC ?

Your thoughts please !

*+ ~ + ~ +*


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## cda (Apr 27, 2014)

Not many

http://www.nfpa.org/training/certification-programs

And I think they cost more


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## Mark K (Apr 27, 2014)

ICC has created a monopoly by convincing local jurisdictions that they should require ICC certifications.  Now they are turning the screws to demand more money.

It would be NFPA's interests to do something similar.  Sure they might make it a little cheaper but only enough cheaper for you to prefer their certifications.  But if Cities or  employers formally or informally require ICC certifications you really do not have a choice.

When certifications are renewed the question should be does the individual still have the skills and knowledge inferred by the certification and have the building code provisions related to the particular certification changed.  Any additional requirement is not relevant to the renewal.  There are ways to deal  with these questions relatively inexpensively but that would not generate as much income to ICC.

Based on ICC's logic you would have to take continuing education courses in order to renew your drivers license.

The only ones that can break the monopoly are the employers who either favor or outright require certifications.  Another possibility is that someone could se claiming violation of anti-trust laws.

Is there another way for to access the capabilities of inspectors?  There is nothing in the building code that requires inspectors have ICC certifications.


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## TJacobs (Apr 27, 2014)

I don't see a major swing to NFPA.  Their costs are higher anyway.


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## ICE (Apr 27, 2014)

Mark K said:
			
		

> ICC has created a monopoly.


The ICC didn't create a monopoly.  ICC enjoys a monopoly by virtue of the fact that nobody else is trying to compete.

ICC creates construction codes.  Those codes are adopted into law.  It makes no sense to have competing organizations creating codes.



> by convincing local jurisdictions that they should require ICC certifications.


Local jurisdictions convinced themselves that certifications are warranted.  Shirley can't cut hair without a license.  Prudence calls for certifications to administer codes.



> Now they are turning the screws to demand more money.


ICC exists and needs money to continue to exist.

The previous system to renew certifications required a test.  Said test was $50.  One had to have books to take the test.  Each book is near $100. My jurisdiction always lags behind when it comes to books, so I had to purchase the books and pay for the tests.  Now I send ICC $85.

Uh Oh I didn't include CEUs.

I get those for free.



> Based on ICC's logic you would have to take continuing education courses in order to renew your drivers license.


The rules of the road change little year to year but the codes change enough that it takes training to stay informed.  Many professions do the same.  Your take on it is that we are not engaged in a profession, so what's the big deal?



> The only ones that can break the monopoly are the employers who either favor or outright require certifications. Another possibility is that someone could se claiming violation of anti-trust laws.


Here in Ca. that is the business of the state legislature.

How on earth could there be a violation of anti-trust laws?


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## mtlogcabin (Apr 28, 2014)

IAPMO offers plumbing and mechanical certs. Renewal is $50 every 3 years open  book test


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## Frank (Apr 28, 2014)

Many states, including the Commonwealth of Virginia have their own certification programs

http://www.dhcd.virginia.gov/index.php/va-building-codes/training-and-certification/certification.html

Each certification requires courses and testing to achieve, continuing education is also required to maintain.

I had the BOCA Master Code Official but did not convert all the certs to ICC due to costs.


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## cda (Apr 28, 2014)

Frank said:
			
		

> Many states, including the Commonwealth of Virginia have their own certification programshttp://www.dhcd.virginia.gov/index.php/va-building-codes/training-and-certification/certification.html
> 
> Each certification requires courses and testing to achieve, continuing education is also required to maintain.
> 
> I had the BOCA Master Code Official but did not convert all the certs to ICC due to costs.


We do same

State is not picky on where the ce's come from


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## fatboy (Apr 28, 2014)

Well, I will point out the elephant in the room............ICC has neither the time nor resources to track down whether or not each member has actually completed the required CEU's, it is strictly an honor system. So take that for what it is worth. I myself, between employment , the code hearings, and the Chapter trainings, which I WILL continue to take credit for, am good for renewals.


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## north star (Apr 29, 2014)

*\ = = /*



Without knowing some more information; hopefully from Jim Brown,

...I will just shoot from the hip.

It's the principle of the matter ***fatboy***, not necessarily where

any one person is with their CEU count.   :banghd

*/ = = \*


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## FM William Burns (Apr 29, 2014)

Our state is similar with respect that the SFM office and Training legislation dictates the number of hours (90 each three years) for re-certifications and the state recognizes both NFPA and ICC.  I have both in the fire stuff but will not choose to keep ICC's since they mandate I must maintain FI-I even though I maintain FI-II and this is simply about making $$ and NFPA recognizes that one who has Level II and maintains it automatically maintained Level I.

Personally, this says what  I have known for years about each organization!


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## cda (Apr 29, 2014)

You know, this site could have its own certification certificates!!!

And make a little money on the side!!


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## FM William Burns (Apr 30, 2014)

> You know, this site could have its own certification certificates!!! And make a little money on the side!!


I sure do miss Paksaddle and UB!


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## fatboy (Apr 30, 2014)

UB pokes around every now and then..........Pack, not so sure whether he even lurks........


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