# Are outside indicating valves required, or can they be inside?



## oxfordethan (Jun 19, 2015)

*NFPA 13 A.8.16.1.1.1 - *

*A water supply connection should not extend into a building or through a building wall unless such connection is under the control of an outside listed indicating valve OR an inside indicating valve located near the outside wall of the building.  All valves controlling water supplies for sprinkler systems or portions thereof, including floor control valves, should be accessible to authorized personnel during emergencies.  Permanent ladders, clamped treads on risers, chain-operated hand wheels, or other accepted means should be provided where necessary.*

*Outside control valves are suggested in the following order of preference:*

*1) Listed indicating valves at each connection into the building at least 40 ft from building if space permits.*

*2) Control valves installed in a cut-off stair tower or valve room accessible from the outside.*

*3) Valves located in risers with indicating posts arranged for outside operation.*

*4) Key-operated valves in each connection to the building*



My interpretation: Water supply should be controlled by a listed valve inside OR outside the building.  If using an outside valve use the order of preference.

My question:  Have I interpreted this correctly or does this mean OUTSIDE valves are preferred first "in this order" and then inside valves?


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## cda (Jun 19, 2015)

Welcome again


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## Insurance Engineer (Jun 20, 2015)

It is all about FD access to the valve, outside PIV is the best for the FD, they can see if it is open and or close it if the sprinkler system failed and they need the water to fight the fire. Since shut sprinkler control valves is the number 1 reason for sprinkler system failure, having accessable valves for FD use is the priority. The FD will check to see if the valve is open IF they can get to it.


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## mark handler (Jun 20, 2015)

I have always been required  place them outside for firefighter protection,that why it says "... at least 40 ft from building,,,,"


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## Msradell (Jun 21, 2015)

Many areas have local codes that dictate when an interior valve can be used instead of the exterior yard valves.  Normally it is determined in part by the use of the building and where it's located.  Office buildings etc. quite often are allowed to have interior valves to control the sprinkler system but warehouses that store a large quantity of flammable materials are required to have them outside.  Your best bet is to check with the local fire department officials, they will know the requirements in your area.


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## mark handler (Jun 21, 2015)

Never seen one inside a building.... only once see one attached to the outside wall of a building.


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## Insurance Engineer (Jun 21, 2015)

Wall post indicator valve (WPIV) , the photo below in the above post is very common in the northeast. We see them in many occupancies it is a good compromise to the PIV. Only down side is the valve is on the building, if the wall fails the FD looses the opportunity to shut the water supply. The best set up is the have a PIV on the water line into the building and WPIV on each individual riser so only the system that needs to be taken out of service can be shut. It is common to see a chain on the WPIV to prevent the closure of the valve.

Here is a video on how to inspect the valve

https://youtu.be/FOQt6wQXDp8


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