# outlet orientation on a mantel



## ajweaver (Oct 14, 2010)

This isnt a "countertop"..what do you enforce?
	

		
			
		

		
	

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## fatboy (Oct 14, 2010)

hmmmmmm......harda$$ interp......countertop. I would ask the intent of the recept, (I know it will change)if it's for lights, I'd buy it. I doubt they are putting a frydaddy up there. Yes, there could be water from a plant, have them GFI it if that is your concern. JMHO......other replies WILL vary.


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## vegas paul (Oct 14, 2010)

Obviously, it's for the LEDs on the Christmas stockings!  Seriously, I wouldn't be bothered by that.  If you're concerned, have them put a GFCI on it.


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## GHRoberts (Oct 14, 2010)

I am concerned. Can I force people to put GFCIs on every outlet?

Concerns are not valid code sections.


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## TimNY (Oct 14, 2010)

GHRoberts said:
			
		

> I am concerned. Can I force people to put GFCIs on every outlet?Concerns are not valid code sections.


Countertop it is!


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## GHRoberts (Oct 14, 2010)

TimNY said:
			
		

> Countertop it is!


 

Short messages do not work.


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## 480sparky (Oct 14, 2010)

That is not a counter top.  Installation is PASS, IMPO.


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## JBI (Oct 14, 2010)

Does the listing for the installed device provide for this orientation? Check with the manufacturer, if they say it's OK maybe advise the contractor and/or homeowner of why you thought it was worthy of concern and call it a day. It is possible the outlets listing will limit where/how it can be used.


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## 480sparky (Oct 14, 2010)

I've never known of a standard, run-on-the-mill plain-Jane duplex to have such a requirement.


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## fatboy (Oct 15, 2010)

GHRoberts said:
			
		

> Short messages do not work.


I think what he is saying george, is that in a horizontal surface that resembles a countertop application, a reasonable alternative would be a GFI, or lacking the GFI, it is a countertop, and therefor not allowed.

But, I could be wrong........


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## Paul Sweet (Oct 15, 2010)

I don't see a problem with it.  The chances of somebody pouring water into the outlet while standing on a conductive surface are less than the chances of a cat or dog snagging an extension cord running from a wall outlet up to the mantel.


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## georgia plans exam (Oct 15, 2010)

We use the NEC here for residential and commercial. Section 406.4(E) of the 2008 NEC prohibits the installation of receptacles in a face up positions in countertops or *similar work surfaces*. I would not consider the top of a mantle to be either of these and would not prohibit it or require a GFI. It's not a smart installation and will possibly gather dust but, if the code doesn't prohibit it, it is allowed.

GPE


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## GHRoberts (Oct 15, 2010)

fatboy said:
			
		

> I think what he is saying george, is that in a horizontal surface that resembles a countertop application, a reasonable alternative would be a GFI, or lacking the GFI, it is a countertop, and therefor not allowed.But, I could be wrong........


My comment was about the bulletin board limitations.

I believe the code says "kitchen counters" not just counters. Regardless mantles are not counters.


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## 480sparky (Oct 15, 2010)

GHRoberts said:
			
		

> My comment was about the bulletin board limitations.I believe the code says "kitchen counters" not just counters. Regardless mantles are not counters.


It does not include the word 'kitchen'.

"406.4 Receptacle Mounting.

(E) Receptacles in Countertops and Similar Work Surfaces in Dwelling Units. Receptacles shall not be installed in a face-up position in countertops or similar work surfaces."


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## TimNY (Oct 15, 2010)

I was really just trying to be funny.  I don't think this is the greatest solution but if there is nothing prohibiting it, then carry on.  I don't think a mantle is a work surface.

You can always recommend anything you like.


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## peach (Oct 16, 2010)

flowers in a vase maybe an issue, but the code doesn't require a GFCI up there and doesn't prohibit it being face up, either.


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## chris kennedy (Oct 16, 2010)

GHRoberts said:
			
		

> Short messages do not work.


  ..........


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