# 2 drinking fountains



## Rick18071 (May 9, 2013)

An architect is planning to have the high and low drinking fountains on opposite sides of the building in different rooms. I can't find anything in the codes to tell him that they need to be next to each other. Help!

2012 IBC & 2009 ANSI.


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## jar546 (May 9, 2013)

Do you mean that the low will be in one place and the high will be in the other rather than a single combination unit that has the hi and lo tied together?

If that is the case, is this for the same occupancy where the public has access to both?

Why would he want to provide plumbing to 2 different places?


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## fatboy (May 9, 2013)

All the above?


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## Gregg Harris (May 9, 2013)

occupancy type and load. Not required to be located together, and could be wheel chair accessible at both locations


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## mark handler (May 9, 2013)

Not required to be located together, BUT a sign should be placed at each DF, directing users to the other


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## JPohling (May 9, 2013)

Gregg Harris said:
			
		

> occupancy type and load. Not required to be located together, and could be wheel chair accessible at both locations


Nope,  needs to be a high and low,  not low and low


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## north star (May 9, 2013)

*: - :*

Agree with all of the above.......A minimum of two ADA compliant

drinking fountains are required for each location.....They can be

located separately from each other [ RE: 1109.5.1, `06 IBC ],

or one "High / Low" type.

*: - :*


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## mark handler (May 9, 2013)

I do disagree that four are required, if the "disabled" are directed to the appropriate High or Low DF


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## Francis Vineyard (May 9, 2013)

mark handler said:
			
		

> Not required to be located together, BUT a sign should be placed at each DF, directing users to the other


Is the directional signage for drinking fountains in the I-codes?

Francis


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## mark handler (May 9, 2013)

Francis Vineyard said:
			
		

> Is the directional signage for drinking fountains in the I-codes?Francis


Notice the word "should"......


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## north star (May 9, 2013)

*: - :*





> "Is the directional signage for drinking fountains in the I-codes?"


IMO, Section 1110.3, `06 IBC would be applicable to directing drinking fountain
users to the nearest ADA / Accessible drinking fountain when not combined at one location.

*: - :*


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## mark handler (May 9, 2013)

> IMO, Section 1110.3, `06 IBC would beapplicable to directing drinking fountain users to the
> 
> nearest ADA / Accessible drinking fountain when not
> 
> combined at one location.


That section does not specify DF


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## north star (May 9, 2013)

*: - :*





> "That section does not specify DF"


That's why it is stated as "special accessibility provisions" !.......Wouldn't
the AHJ be allowed to require signage for the two separate drinking fountains using
this section ?

*: - :*


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## Rick18071 (May 9, 2013)

2 drinking fountains

The high and low are both accessible. What would the sign say?


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## mark handler (May 9, 2013)

Rick18071 said:
			
		

> The high and low are both accessible. What would the sign say?


I don't know, because I have never delt with an AHo*e that wants
to split the High \ Low.


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## Francis Vineyard (May 10, 2013)

Respectful of AHJ and other than schools and doctors offices immediately comes to mind with this set up.

Francis


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## JPohling (May 10, 2013)

never seen them intentionally split up and scattered throughout a space.  Makes no sense for accessibility or construction


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## Yikes (May 10, 2013)

A hi/low combo is wider than just one fountain.  I've had situations in retrofitting existing facilities where the available wall space (including adding appropriate wing walls) was just too small for a high/low combination in any one location, by the time you deal with other obstructions, strike side clearances for doors, etc.  This typically occurs where there is a fountain in a hallway alcove just outside of the restroom entrances - - there are obstructions, doors, and level+clear requirements all over the place.

So, you make the existing fountain the "high" location, and find another place for the "low" fountain.  Sometimes we can comandeer a second alcove that's an abandoned public telephone location.

This situation is not as rare as you'd think.


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## north star (May 10, 2013)

*~ : ~ : ~*





> " I've had situations in retrofitting existing facilities where the available wall
> space ( including adding appropriate wing walls ) was just too small for a high/low
> combination in any one location, by the time you deal with other obstructions, strike side
> clearances for doors, etc........This typically occurs where there is a fountain in a hallway
> ...


Was there any ADA / Accessible signage installed, directing [ potential ] users
to the other water founatin, or was it within sight, or other ?



*~ : ~ : ~*


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## Yikes (May 13, 2013)

It's happened on several projects.  They were either within sight of each other, or in the same room / hallway, but just around the corner from each other.  Remember, both the high and the low fountain are accessible: the low for persons in a wheelchair, and the high for people with back problems who can't bend over.  In those scenarios, it made no sense to label both as accessible, since it would've ceased to be a useful distinction fro the user.


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## lunatick (Jun 28, 2013)

JPohling said:
			
		

> never seen them intentionally split up and scattered throughout
> a space.  Makes no sense for accessibility or construction


Nothing about DF's placement or enforcement comes from sense of any sort. 
If so, then we would see paper cups dispensers as an options for either scenario or
fail all users at that. Nothing like seeing youth drink from these with their lips right tight
to the spigot, etc.

Before you go there, just think, ..paper is good in the toilet room ( in lieu of a bidet and
air dryers ).  Why isn't it good at the drinking fountain ?


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## north star (Jun 28, 2013)

*= =*





> " Before you go there just think, paper is good in the toilet room (enlieu of bidet
> and air dryers), why isn't it good at the drinking fountain."


I do not believe that cups; whether paper or other, will
meet the letter or the intent of Section 309.4 - `10 ADASAD, ...for graspability by one hand......Also,
the regular stocking and availibility of the cups [ typically ] is an issue of not providing equal access.

*= =*


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## Rick18071 (Apr 4, 2018)

I have almost same situation again. A million square foot one story S2 building that has more drinking fountains than required. All of the DF are far away from each other and out of sight of each other and in different rooms. There are six places where they installed a high and low DF next to each other. Also they are only installing a low drinking fountain at 4 separate locations. 2009 IBC 1109.5.2 requires extra drinking fountains to be 50% high and 50% low. I am telling them that they need to replace two of the low DF with two high DF.

They are asking me can if they replace the low DF at 2 different locations where they have a high and low DF next to each other with a high one. Then there will be two high DF next to each other at 2 locations but the total will be DF would be 16, 8 high and 8 low in the building. This seems like a bad design to me but I can't find a section in the code to restrict this. Can you help me out with this?


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## georgia plans exam (Apr 4, 2018)

If I cannot find a code section to prohibit it, I would pass it. I see lots of bad designs that meet minimum code requirements. JMHO...GPE.


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## mtlogcabin (Apr 4, 2018)

1109.5.1 Minimum number.
No fewer than two drinking fountains shall be provided. One drinking fountain shall comply with the requirements for people who use a wheelchair and one drinking fountain shall comply with the requirements for standing persons.

Exceptions:

1.    A single drinking fountain that complies with the requirements for people who use a wheelchair and standing persons shall be permitted to be substituted for two separate drinking fountains.


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## steveray (Apr 4, 2018)

You are right Rick....But I do like Mark's answers...


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## JPohling (Apr 4, 2018)

mtlogcabin said:


> 1109.5.1 Minimum number.
> No fewer than two drinking fountains shall be provided. One drinking fountain shall comply with the requirements for people who use a wheelchair and one drinking fountain shall comply with the requirements for standing persons.
> 
> Exceptions:
> ...



That exception is there for a future design for a fountain that is height adjustable.  it cannot be achieved any other way


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## Builder Bob (Apr 12, 2018)

JUST FYI, in SC the office of School Facilities only allow a hi-lo drinking fountain to count as one fixture - thus we split these up when two are required.


(Don't agree with that concept..... but I don't make there interpretations -


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