# Karaoke Lounge - occupancy/ sprinklers



## Monique Harby (Apr 5, 2018)

I worked on a Karaoke Lounge that has an occupant load of 150. There are 12 individual karaoke rooms. The business got up and running serving packaged snacks and canned drinks. A few months later they began serving beer. The planning department found out and is requiring us to move from an A1 to an A2 which means we need a firewall or sprinklers because we are over 100 in the occupant load. 

I didn't think this would be an issue because I would consider the food/alcohol an accessory occupancy. The planning department didn't agree that the kitchen (which is just to serve snacks and beer from) was an accessory occupancy. My reasoning was;

1. The accessory occupancy is subsidiary to the main purpose of the space.  The main purpose is to sing karaoke, having food and drink is secondary.  The planning department is saying our _intent_ is to eat and drink food, but the business was up and running without food and drinks, so it’s obviously not the primary purpose, it’s just there to support the karaoke.
2. The accessory occupancy is less than 10% of the square footage - The kitchen, which is A2, is less than 10%.
3. There are no separation requirements between A2 and A1/A3. the occupant load of the A3 is under 300 people, so does not require sprinklers and the A2 of the kitchen is less than 100 people so therefore does not require sprinklers. 

Is there any work around? It's too expensive for the owner to retrofit the space for sprinklers just so he can serve beer.  Or do you agree that the whole space should be A2?

This is in Washington State.

Thanks!


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## cda (Apr 5, 2018)

Welcome


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## cda (Apr 5, 2018)

A-2 entire space, unless they are going to all stand in the kitchen and drink

If you look at the examples, it is not just places that drink only::

sorry cannot copy and paste

https://codes.iccsafe.org/public/document/IBC2018/chapter-3-occupancy-classification-and-use


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## cda (Apr 5, 2018)

If you can separate it some how, so the occupant load is less enough to negate sprinklers?

Wall with door or doors, that have door holders with stand alone smoke detectors to release the doors/??

That way the entire spaces is still kind of open, and customers can flow.

Not a karaoke person, but have not heard of individual rooms before


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## RLGA (Apr 5, 2018)

As cda states, unless everyone eats and drinks only in the kitchen, then all assembly spaces are considered Group A-2.


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## tmurray (Apr 6, 2018)

I think I would have classed it as A-2 from the start...


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## Rick18071 (Apr 6, 2018)

Sounds like a nightclub to me even without drinks and eats, A2.


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## JPohling (Apr 6, 2018)

A-2 for sure


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## RLGA (Apr 6, 2018)

I just picked up on the fact that these are individual rooms and not one large room. I think this changes the dynamic a bit.

If there are 12 rooms and 150 occupants, that roughly 12-13 occupants per room. At 15 sq. ft. per occupant, that would make each room about 180 to 195 sq. ft. each. Per IBC Section 303.1.2 (2015 edition), these would be classified as Group B occupancies (less than 750 sq. ft. and less than 50 occupants). The kitchen, in this case, would be classified as Group F-1. Thus, the entire building would not have a Group A occupancy (unless there is a larger room not mentioned that is greater than 750 sq. ft. and the occupant load is 50 or greater).

In that case, a sprinkler system would not be required for the Group B occupancies, except if the entire building is greater than 12,000 sq. ft. and there is no fire barrier separation between the Group F-1 and Group B per IBC Section 707.3.10 for fire areas, since a Group F-1 fire area requires a sprinkler system if the fire area is greater than 12,000 sq. ft.


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## cda (Apr 6, 2018)

RLGA said:


> I just picked up on the fact that these are individual rooms and not one large room. I think this changes the dynamic a bit.
> 
> If there are 12 rooms and 150 occupants, that roughly 12-13 occupants per room. At 15 sq. ft. per occupant, that would make each room about 180 to 195 sq. ft. each. Per IBC Section 303.1.2 (2015 edition), these would be classified as Group B occupancies (less than 750 sq. ft. and less than 50 occupants). The kitchen, in this case, would be classified as Group F-1. Thus, the entire building would not have a Group A occupancy (unless there is a larger room not mentioned that is greater than 750 sq. ft. and the occupant load is 50 or greater).
> 
> In that case, a sprinkler system would not be required for the Group B occupancies, except if the entire building is greater than 12,000 sq. ft. and there is no fire barrier separation between the Group F-1 and Group B per IBC Section 707.3.10 for fire areas, since a Group F-1 fire area requires a sprinkler system if the fire area is greater than 12,000 sq. ft.





I was wondering if someone would go that way.

Not sure if I agree.

Maybe in special cases, in this instance would have to see a floor plan.


Plus it has to soar past the ahj

Seems like at some point, opening night, there will be a crowd of over fifty in one place, and having a cold one.


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## RLGA (Apr 6, 2018)

cda said:


> I was wondering if someone would go that way.
> 
> Not sure if I agree.
> 
> ...


If a series of small assembly rooms must be classified as a Group A occupancy, then all college classroom buildings would need to be classified as Group A occupancies regardless of occupant load and floor area for each classroom.


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## cda (Apr 6, 2018)

RLGA said:


> If a series of small assembly rooms must be classified as a Group A occupancy, then all college classroom buildings would need to be classified as Group A occupancies regardless of occupant load and floor area for each classroom.




Yea but,,,,


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## RLGA (Apr 6, 2018)

cda said:


> Yea but,,,,


But what? Section 303.1.2 does not say "Exception: Karaoke lounges."


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## cda (Apr 6, 2018)

I am thinking


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## Paul Sweet (Apr 9, 2018)

They would have to be individual rooms with fire-rated doors and corridors to make RLGA's interpretation work.


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## FLSTF01 (Apr 10, 2018)

Without seeing a floor plan, I think I would lean to have made it an A-3 to begin with.  It seems to clearly be an A-2 (with beer) today though.  the cheapest way to not do sprinklers would probably be to create fire areas of less than 100 persons.


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## cda (Apr 10, 2018)

Paul Sweet said:


> They would have to be individual rooms with fire-rated doors and corridors to make RLGA's interpretation work.



Why


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## Paul Sweet (Apr 10, 2018)

If they were alcoves without doors opening off another space then they couldn't be considered "individual rooms" with a limited occupant load in each, so you would have  to count everybody that could be in the other space as well as people in the alcoves, so the occupant load would be the 150 of the OP - hence A occupancy.


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## cda (Apr 10, 2018)

Paul Sweet said:


> If they were alcoves without doors opening off another space then they couldn't be considered "individual rooms" with a limited occupant load in each, so you would have  to count everybody that could be in the other space as well as people in the alcoves, so the occupant load would be the 150 of the OP - hence A occupancy.




Will agree somewhat 

Missed you were asking for a rated corridor,


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