# Wine Cellar with Seating Exempt from Elevator



## Mike Hearn (Mar 6, 2020)

Learned a lot here in the past. New to posting. 
Does a 1,200 s.f.wine cellar with seating, in a privately funded, newly constructed restaurant require an elevator according to 11B 206.2.3 Ex 1.2? 

Is this exception in conflict with 11B 206.2.5? 

Any help would be appreciated.


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## cda (Mar 6, 2020)

Welcome!!!

CBO!


As you know some on the forum don’t work weekends, give it a couple of business days.


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## cda (Mar 9, 2020)

Help a CBO


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## e hilton (Mar 9, 2020)

Why would privately funded be a factor?


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## ADAguy (Mar 9, 2020)

e hilton said:


> Why would privately funded be a factor?



at least a Lula at a minimum.

It is not a private club is it? As described it is a T-III public (as in for profit) facility offering goods and services for sale.
Also, unless you have a dumbwaiter how do you propose to transfer wine cases and food  to the basement?


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## Mike Hearn (Mar 9, 2020)

e hilton said:


> Why would privately funded be a factor?



The requirement to provide access is excepted under certain conditions. 

*11B-206.2.3 Multi-story buildings and facilities*
At least one accessible route shall connect each story and mezzanine in multi-story buildings and facilities.

*Exceptions:
1. *The following types of privately funded multistory buildings do not require a ramp or elevator above and below the first floor:

1.1. Multi-storied office buildings (other than the professional office of a health care provider) and passenger vehicle service stations less than three stories high or less than 3,000 square feet (279 m2) per story.

*1.2.* Any other privately funded multi-storied building that is not a shopping center, shopping mall or the professional office of a health care provider, or a terminal, depot or other station used for specified public transportation, or an airport passenger terminal and that is less than three stories high or less than 3,000 square feet (279 m2) per story if a reasonable portion of all facilities and accommodations normally sought and used by the public in such a building are accessible to and usable by persons with disabilities.

*
11B-206.2.5 Restaurants, cafeterias, banquet facilities and bars*
In _restaurants, cafeterias, banquet facilities, bars, and similar facilities_, an accessible route shall be provided to all _functional_ areas, including raised or sunken areas, and outdoor areas.

Thanks for responding.


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## Mike Hearn (Mar 9, 2020)

ADAguy said:


> at least a Lula at a minimum.
> 
> It is not a private club is it? As described it is a T-III public (as in for profit) facility offering goods and services for sale.
> Also, unless you have a dumbwaiter how do you propose to transfer wine cases and food  to the basement?



Yes, they have proposed a "service elevator" in lieu of a passenger elevator.


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## mark handler (Mar 9, 2020)

Acording to the access-board Freight elevators cannot be used to satisfy the requirement for an accessible route between floors.
Only passenger elevators as classified by the referenced elevator safety code (ASME A17.1) can be used to meet the ADA Standards.

https://www.access-board.gov/guidel...ndards/chapter-4-elevators-and-platform-lifts


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## Mike Hearn (Mar 9, 2020)

mark handler said:


> Acording to the access-board Freight elevators cannot be used to satisfy the requirement for an accessible route between floors.
> Only passenger elevators as classified by the referenced elevator safety code (ASME A17.1) can be used to meet the ADA Standards.
> 
> Understood. To the original question: Does 11B 206.2.3 Ex 1.2 exempt requirement for ramp or elevator in this circumstance?


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## ADAguy (Mar 9, 2020)

No


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## DMartin (Mar 9, 2020)

I interpret that "privately funded" is a private club. members only no public access. Sounds like it will be open to the public so it would need to be accessible.


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## DMartin (Mar 9, 2020)

DMartin said:


> I interpret that "privately funded" is a private club. members only no public access. Sounds like it will be open to the public so it would need to be accessible.


Not that members wouldn't potentially need accessibility as well but..


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## mark handler (Mar 9, 2020)

There is no exception in 11B for this.


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## e hilton (Mar 9, 2020)

ADAguy said:


> Also, unless you have a dumbwaiter


Be careful ... the political correctness police are gonna get you.


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## e hilton (Mar 9, 2020)

Mike Hearn said:


> *11B-206.2.5 Restaurants, cafeterias, banquet facilities and bars*
> In _restaurants, cafeterias, banquet facilities, bars, and similar facilities_, an accessible route shall be provided to all _functional_ areas, including raised or sunken areas, and outdoor areas..


Mike ... this section seems to override the exception.


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## ADAguy (Mar 9, 2020)

A one stop elevator is not that large a capitol expense, of course this depends on just how big the restaurant is to be.
Is the owner seeking gold plate on a beer budget? Does he own the building? Is it sprinklered?


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## mark handler (Mar 9, 2020)

ADAguy said:


> A one stop elevator is not that large a capitol expense, of course this depends on just how big the restaurant is to be.
> Is the owner seeking gold plate on a beer budget? Does he own the building? Is it sprinklered?


It will need to be gurney sized....


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## ADAguy (Mar 9, 2020)

Sure about that? He hasn't indicated how big the basement is, maybe a lot of wine but only seating for 12. Does the basement have 2 stairs out?


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## Mike Hearn (Mar 9, 2020)

DMartin said:


> I interpret that "privately funded" is a private club. members only no public access. Sounds like it will be open to the public so it would need to be accessible.



The exceptions listed in *1.2 *would not be allowed if any public monies (grants, RDA funds, tax exemptions, etc.) were involved with a project.


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## Mike Hearn (Mar 9, 2020)

e hilton said:


> Mike ... this section seems to override the exception.



e hilton... Seems that way to me too since it is the more specific. Just thought I would bring it up for the groups discussion. Thanks everyone for your thoughts.


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## cda (Mar 9, 2020)

Welcome come back and answer some questions!!!

Are you north or south calif??


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## Mike Hearn (Mar 9, 2020)

cda said:


> Welcome come back and answer some questions!!!
> 
> Are you north or south calif??




Thank you for the hospitality. I'd like the interaction that are similarly code-minded.


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## Mike Hearn (Mar 10, 2020)

Mike Hearn said:


> Thank you for the hospitality. I'd like the interaction that are similarly code-minded.



Oops! I meant that I would enjoy the interaction _with others _that are similarly code-minded. Socal.


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## JPohling (Mar 10, 2020)

Accessibility to this area would be required.


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