# Can a dishwasher be installed in the bottom of a tall oven cabinet?



## azmanatheart (Mar 9, 2016)

Im working on a kitchen bid for a high end NYC High Rise project where they have all the dishwashers located in the bottom of a tall cabinet that houses a built in microwave above it.  It doesnt seem right, not just because Ive never seen it, but also because its inconvenient(no place to put dirty dishes while loading except sink, and it has a cabinet panel on it so it is totally concealed, no countertop above it, What about heat and moisture from the drying cycle? It would have to get some type of moisture barrier to prevent the cabinet from getting moist, and it would probably need a fixed shelf above it at countertop height.

Question is, is it legal?  Other than the reasons I've stated above, can you think of another reason why it is ill advised?

I spoke to Miele, and they said that they would not honor the warranty because it is not one of the ways that they illustrate approved installations, but they had no special reason why its not good!

Thank you for your help and input!

Oh, in every case, if it matters, it is at the end of a run, so the only countertop is to one side where the sink is.

Jeff


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## steveray (Mar 9, 2016)

Nothing in code against it.....


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## cda (Mar 9, 2016)

Most dishwashers are insulated and do not vent anything till you open the door


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## azmanatheart (Mar 9, 2016)

Thank you.  Helps to know there is no code against it.  Small NYC Kitchens can be problematic, and when there is no countertop space, just a full depth cabinet side next to the sink, I worry that there is no way to load and unload, plus possible hot humid air escaping where there is usually the underside of a countertop.  Would rather run the top across and set a shallower wall cabinet on the countertop or raise it up and put a micowave cabinet, but have to weigh the extra counter against less storage space of a pantry type.  And convince the architect what is the better plan for the tenant.

Any other thoughts are appreciated as well.

Thanks again


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## MASSDRIVER (Mar 9, 2016)

Higher end dishwashers have undercounter shields to protect against that vapor wiff when the door opens. Rather than trying to moisture proof things, I would try to Incorperate some minor ventilation in the cabinet for any stray vapor. Just something to keep stagnant air sitting behind the cabinet.

Brent


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## conarb (Mar 9, 2016)

I don't know about New York codes but California still requires an air-gap installed even when the manufacturer says that they are not necessary.  I've had problems, particularly with Bosch dishwashers, the appliance salesman have told my customers that an air gap is not necessary, I've taken the Bosch installation instructions to at least two CBOs to request an alternative to the CPC air-gap requirement and both have refused.  The way I stopped the request is I found online information wherein people were complaining that Bosch installations without air-gaps didn't get the dishes as clean as with air-gaps, the customers immediately agreed to allowing me to install the air-gaps.

I don't know where your dishwasher is going to be located relative to the sink, but it might be a hassle running a line to the sink.


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## north star (Mar 9, 2016)

*+ ~ + ~ +*



> I spoke to Miele, and they said that they would not honor the warranty because it isnot one of the ways that they illustrate approved installations, but they had no
> 
> special reason why its not good!


Uuuuuhhhhhmmmm, ...No !.......Refer to Section 301.7 inthe `14 NYC Plbg. Code:

*Section 301.2 - Conflicts: *"In instances where conflicts

occur between this code and the manufacturer' installation

instructions, the more restrictive provisions shall apply."

See this link: *http://codes.iccsafe.org/app/book/content/2014_NYC_Plumbing_HTML/CHAPTER%203.html*

IMO, ...if the manufacturer will not warranty this install,

that's a "Deal Killer"

*+ ~ + ~ +*


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## Msradell (Mar 9, 2016)

> *+ ~ + ~ +*Uuuuuhhhhhmmmm, ...No !.......Refer to Section 301.7 in
> 
> the `14 NYC Plbg. Code:
> 
> ...


  Code similar to that exists in many places however, Meile said that was not one of the ways that they illustrate approved installations. I just got done looking at their installation instructions and there's nothing in the verbiage that says you can't install it this way. Since their illustrations can't possibly show every type of installation possible I would certainly have to depend on the verbiage in this case, especially since an inspector is not going to call the manufacturer to see if their installation would be warranted. For instance their illustrations also don't show a dishwasher installed with a drawer underneath it so we don't have to bend down so far to load the dishwasher yet I've seen many installed that way.


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## JBI (Mar 10, 2016)

Have you asked the manufacturer what could be done to modify the proposed install to ensure the warranty will be honored?

Consumer protection, for a Code Official, is in part ensuring that warranted products will be covered.


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