# Fire Doors in Action



## LGreene (Jan 27, 2011)

You guys are probably sick of my door-related questions/comments, but I think these are some great photos to illustrate the value of compliant fire doors.

http://idighardware.com/2011/01/the-rest-of-the-story/


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## mtlogcabin (Jan 27, 2011)

> You guys are probably sick of my door-related questions/comments


No way keep em coming. I print some of your pics and ask the guys what do you see.


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## Coug Dad (Jan 27, 2011)

Very cool example.


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## LGreene (Jan 27, 2011)

I received some photos today from a fire inspector that I'll be posting shortly.  One is UNBELIEVABLE!!!  An exit door that's semi-permanently closed with an angle attached to the jamb and the face of the door.  They do have the signage though ("This door to remain unlocked...").


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## Marshal Chris (Jan 27, 2011)

wow, those are some good pictures.  Could I use them for training purposes?


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## FM William Burns (Jan 27, 2011)

Yea, keep them coming.  Not fire doors but we also teach dwellers to sleep with their doors closed since one would be amazed at how damage is limited in a dwelling just by having closed doors in a fire situation.


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## jar546 (Jan 27, 2011)

Fantastic, need more stories and photo backup proof


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## LGreene (Jan 28, 2011)

> Marshal Chris:  wow, those are some good pictures. Could I use them for training purposes?


Of course!  As long as you mention that NFPA 80 now requires fire doors to be inspected annually and documentation kept for review by the fire marshal!  


> FM William Burns:  Not just fire doors but we also teach dwellers to sleep with their doors closed since one would be amazed at how damage is limited in a dwelling just by having closed doors in a fire situation.


The attached photo is a GREAT illustration of why you should sleep with your door closed.  I received permission to use it from the photographer, Juan Guerra - http://juanguerra.smugmug.com/


> jar546:  Fantastic, need more stories and photo backup proof


I hunted down some more photos of doors "after the fire," and I'll be posting them on my blog next week.
	

		
			
		

		
	

View attachment 364


View attachment 364


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## FM William Burns (Jan 28, 2011)

We have a DVD we did with video company from an investigation I did years ago where I walked the audience through a home where a dryer vent destroyed a home and the bedrooms were virtually unscathed.  They work and keep up the great work LG


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## LGreene (Jan 30, 2011)

FM William Burns - How about uploading that video to Youtube so we can all see it?


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## FM William Burns (Jan 30, 2011)

LG,

I'll dig it out of the PE materials next week and get a tecno geek to assist me with that excellent idea, wish I would have thought of that a few years ago since everything else is on You Tube


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## LGreene (Jan 30, 2011)

Cool!  I'm going to show it to my kids...I just convinced my 9YO to sleep with her bedroom door closed.  We're moving the master bedroom to the attic level and getting quotes to retrofit sprinklers in the basement and kitchen for peace of mind since we'll be on a separate floor from the kids.


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## cda (Jan 30, 2011)

LG they do have smoke detectors in their bedrooms!! ??


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## FM William Burns (Jan 31, 2011)

Bad news LG..........went through the video archive and can't find the video.  Called the video company this morning and asked for their search but the video is >10 yrs. old so they said they will try.  I thought we transferred it to DVD so I have asked one of the guys to assist me in searching for it since he re-did the library and log directory.

Regarding the children and split levels; I had that also when we built out MS.  There are some excellent "secondary" egress devices out there for elevated levels and make sure the home has a combination detection scheme throughout including separate CO detection.


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## LGreene (Jan 31, 2011)

Yes, CDA, we do have smoke detectors in the bedrooms, and CO detectors on each level.

FMWB - Any secondary egress devices you'd recommend?

This thread has taken a definite turn, but I started it so I guess it's ok.


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## FM William Burns (Feb 1, 2011)

LG,

http://www.jomy.com/

http://www.redi-exit.com/fire-escape-ladders.html

http://www.pearlprotected.com/


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## Marshal Chris (Feb 1, 2011)

LGreene said:
			
		

> Of course!  As long as you mention that NFPA 80 now requires fire doors to be inspected annually and documentation kept for review by the fire marshal!


TYVM.  I often mention that about NFPA 80 on inspections.  It is usually followed by, I've been here for thirty years and never had to do this before.....


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## LGreene (Feb 1, 2011)

> Marshal Chris:  I've been here for thirty years and never had to do this before.....


And they'd be right, but nobody took care of their doors properly so this is what it has come to!  Has your jurisdiction adopted a code that references NFPA 80-2007, and are you regularly asking to see the documentation of their inspection?


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## FM William Burns (Feb 2, 2011)

Ok back on track....we have been requiring the testing and documentation (including drop) for doors, shutters and windows for many years.  It goes as far back as 1995 verison of 80 in Chapter 15.

We just always thought that................ oh well how are they going to show us they are in complaince with the care and maintenance provisions, and why did they remove the self closer and what's this new one and my favorite....why don't these doors drop all the way to the floor?

The key now is that the industry finally has a measurable method and (developing) means to train inspectors to conduct inspections.  Hopefully coming to a conference near you


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## LGreene (Feb 2, 2011)

FMWB - Do you require the tests and documentation for swinging fire doors or just overhead and sliding fire doors?  The inspection/documentation requirement for swinging fire doors is pretty new (2007 edition of NFPA 80).  And when you talk about the means to train inspectors to conduct inspections, do you mean fire inspectors or fire DOOR inspectors?  The feedback I've gotten is that fire marshals/inspectors don't have the time and resources to conduct swinging fire door inspections.  There are a couple of training programs for fire door inspectors, although no special training/certification is required as long as the individual is knowledgeable about fire doors.  The building owner or property manager is responsible for doing the inspection or hiring someone to do it, and the fire marshal/inspector only has to review the documentation.

I really hope jurisdictions start enforcing the inspection requirement for swinging fire doors because we all know that the doors are in terrible shape and this seems to be the only way to rectify that.  I'm glad you see this as a tool to help you determine whether a facility is in compliance.  If there is a conference or group that needs training on the requirements, I may be able to hook you up with someone.  Or I'll do it myself if the training is in the Caribbean.


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## FM William Burns (Feb 2, 2011)

> The inspection/documentation requirement for swinging fire doors is pretty new (2007 edition of NFPA 80).


LG,

Just a matter of how the AHJ looks at it! The following is how we've done it for years when in question (1995 NFPA 80)

*15-2.1* Inspections.*

15-2.1.1* Hardware shall be examined frequently and any parts found to be inoperative shall be replaced immediately.

A-15-2.1 Fire doors, shutters, and windows are of no value unless they are properly maintained and closed or are able to close at the time of fire. A periodic inspection and maintenance program should be implemented and should be the responsibility of the property management.

15-2.4.2 Swinging doors normally held in the open position and equipped with automatic-closing devices shall be operated at frequent intervals to ensure proper operation.

15-2.5.3 Where a fire door, frame, or any part of its appurtenances is damaged to the extent that it could impair the door’s proper emergency function, it shall be repaired with parts

obtained from the door’s manufacturer. Upon completion of the repairs, the door shall be tested to ensure emergency operation and closing.

*We (and many of my like minded peers) have always interpreted these as being.......... just because the code does not specify who, whom and how many; who are we to say we know what is the best practice. If the door does not function properly regardless of what type or style it must be repaired, tested and inspected by someone better qualified then me. Been CYA’ing for many years *


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## LGreene (Feb 2, 2011)

It's clearer now (starting with 80-2007):

_5.2.1* Fire door assemblies shall be inspected and tested not less than annually, and a written record of the inspection shall be signed and kept for inspection by the AHJ._

_5.2.3.1 Functional testing of fire door and window assemblies shall be performed by individuals with knowledge and understanding of the operating components of the type of door being subject to testing._

_5.2.4.2 As a minimum, the following items shall be verified:_

_(1) 	No open holes or breaks exist in surfaces of either the door or frame._

_(2) 	Glazing, vision light frames, and glazing beads are intact and securely fastened in place, if so equipped._

_(3) 	The door, frame, hinges, hardware, and noncombustible threshold are secured, aligned, and in working order with no visible signs of damage._

_(4) 	No parts are missing or broken._

_(5) 	Door clearances at the door edge to the frame, on the pull side of the door, do not exceed clearances listed in 4.8.4 and 6.3.1._

_(6) 	The self-closing device is operational, that is, the active door completely closes when operated from the full open position._

_(7) 	If a coordinator is installed, the inactive leaf closes before active leaf._

_(8) 	Latching hardware operates and secures the door when it is in the closed position._

_(9) 	Auxiliary hardware items that interfere or prohibit operation are not installed on the door or frame._

_(10) 	No field modifications to the door assembly have been performed that void the label._

_(11) 	Gasketing and edge seals, where required, are inspected to verify their presence and integrity._


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## FM William Burns (Feb 2, 2011)

Yep.............................


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## TJacobs (Feb 7, 2011)

In one of my previous gigs I did my first fire inspection at a warehouse where every exit door was tack welded to the jamb.  They did not look like new welds, either.

Would have made great fire doors...if'n fire doors was needed...


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## bgingras (Feb 7, 2011)

Interesting. this is one of those items I have always looked at during our periodic inspections(commonly referred to as 106 in MA, now 110.7). During my short stint in Lowell MA,  I inspected a 500 +/- unit apartment building where  I found a bulk of the fire doors to be non operable or removed completely. I failed the inspection and gave 30 days to fix all of them. the argument I got from the owners was that the fire department didn't require them to be fixed, so why should I? 30 days later and I saw them all repaired and signed off.


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