# Fire Alarm Function Test



## Joker (Dec 4, 2014)

We are a major municipality and during the fire alarm function test we have in attendance: 1-2 inspectors from the fire marshals office, 1 electrical inspector, 1 building inspector, and if there are dampers or other mechanical devices connected to it, a mechanical inspector. Development is starting to pick up, function tests are starting to back up, and overtime is required. This usually costs the contractor about $2600 for 4 hours minimum. Fire and building inspectors are non-negotiable unless there are extenuating circumstances. In those instances, the missing inspector will accept the approval or rejection of the other.  The argument of whether or not the mechanical and electrical inspectors need to be there for this test has come up. How is it handled in your shop?


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## tmurray (Dec 4, 2014)

We require the fire alarm to be tested by a third party and witnessed by building official. The test report by the third party is forwarded to the fire marshal's office.


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## ICE (Dec 4, 2014)

Joker said:
			
		

> We are a major municipality and during the fire alarm function test we have in attendance: 1-2 inspectors from the fire marshals office, 1 electrical inspector, 1 building inspector, and if there are dampers or other mechanical devices connected to it, a mechanical inspector. This usually costs the contractor about $2600 for 4 hours minimum.


What?  No policeman.  Somebody should have a gun.


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## cda (Dec 4, 2014)

Sounds like a "committee" inspection!!!  Which I hate

I take this is outside normal work hours, that is why you are charging????

Or do you charge for testing????

Sounds like you have a nice size dept

1-2 inspectors from the fire marshals office, 1 electrical inspector, 1 building inspector, and if there are dampers or other mechanical devices connected to it, a mechanical inspector.

So what does each one of these

Do ??? at the test?

1-2 inspectors from the fire marshals office,

1 electrical inspector,

 1 building inspector,

and if there are dampers or other mechanical devices connected to it, a mechanical inspector.

1. Require the fire alarm company to have additional people to help

2. Let one of the three from the building dept be their inspector on site.


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## cda (Dec 4, 2014)

Radios and cell phones work great, most of the time


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## steveray (Dec 4, 2014)

Why are the inspections not covered by the permit fee?

 I am a big fan of multiple sets of eyes for inspections especially where there is crossover between us and the FM, but not at great cost to the customer....

     A building official or inspector should be able to verify everything at a FA test...Checking for HVAC shutdown can be done with ribbons on diffusers, and anyone can see whether or not a damper is closed....An electrical inspector would look at the wiring on a rough or above ceiling (and could also do a final for device locations independent of the test) I see no need to have one present for the test....


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## mjesse (Dec 4, 2014)

We require certification from the installer that a "pre-test" was done. This can be in the same format as the required annual testing.

One inspector from the Fire District is on site for an acceptance test prior to occupancy. Inspector verifies devices correctly report to FACP, and trouble, supervisory, and full alarm signals report correctly to dispatch. (all FAs are required to be wirelessly monitored here)

Inspection fee and one re-inspection are included in the permit fee. Additional re-inspections are billed at $100 minimum.

Who is required to bring the coffee and donuts to your 12 person inspection party?


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## TheCommish (Dec 4, 2014)

we bring the FM and the BO, after they have certified a 100% test has been done the electrical inspector has signed off. We test every flow and tamper, all fire pump functions if installed, hood system and shut down, RTU shut downs, hold opens then randomly test other devices. Depending on the results we content testing or tell them to go back and do the 100 % test again and get the paper work for the 100% test and random retest again.

on a small system we would do 100% test


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## FM William Burns (Dec 5, 2014)

Commissioning of fire protection systems in our jurisdiction is done by the "qualified" fire protection system inspector.  If there is an issue with operational functions of equipment or systems used in conjunction.....then we will call another authority in as necessary.  I could be available to handle the backload and would be much less than $650 an hour.

The functionality will allow verification of properly installed systems and circuits if tested and inspected properly.


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## Joker (Dec 7, 2014)

cda said:
			
		

> Sounds like a "committee" inspection!!!  Which I hate I take this is outside normal work hours, that is why you are charging????
> 
> Or do you charge for testing????
> 
> ...


For years the policy has been that building inspectors and fire inspectors are on site witnessing the test (overlapping duties)because both  can cite a code that says they are supposed to be there (both are the AHJ in their respective codes related to this fire alarm system). The electrical inspectors are there checking the panel and making sure the electrical problems that come are being addressed properly. Mechanical inspectors are there to maker sure their respective devices work during the test. Inspections are performed on regular time when ever possible and the permit fee covers the inspection. The big costs come when inspections are performed on OT.


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## Joker (Dec 7, 2014)

FM William Burns said:
			
		

> Commissioning of fire protection systems in our jurisdiction is done by the "qualified" fire protection system inspector.  If there is an issue with operational functions of equipment or systems used in conjunction.....then we will call another authority in as necessary.  I could be available to handle the backload and would be much less than $650 an hour.The functionality will allow verification of properly installed systems and circuits if tested and inspected properly.


Thanks for the response.


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## Joker (Dec 7, 2014)

tmurray said:
			
		

> We require the fire alarm to be tested by a third party and witnessed by building official. The test report by the third party is forwarded to the fire marshal's office.


Thanks for the response


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 7, 2014)

We will accommodate iinspections times from 6:00 am to 8:00pm with no OT charged to the contractor. Employees are paid OT or COMP when they exceed a 40 hour work week not an 8 hour day. Sometimes the week is over after 3 or 4 days. Sometimes they will ask for comp and use it for whatever they want


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## cda (Dec 7, 2014)

Joker said:
			
		

> For years the policy has been that building inspectors and fire inspectors are on site witnessing the test (overlapping duties)because both  can cite a code that says they are supposed to be there (both are the AHJ in their respective codes related to this fire alarm system). The electrical inspectors are there checking the panel and making sure the electrical problems that come are being addressed properly. Mechanical inspectors are there to maker sure their respective devices work during the test. Inspections are performed on regular time when ever possible and the permit fee covers the inspection. The big costs come when inspections are performed on OT.


so what percentage of the fire alarm tests do building, mechanical, and electrical inspectors find problems???

And could the fire inspector or just one of the other three have found them?


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## Joker (Dec 8, 2014)

cda said:
			
		

> so what percentage of the fire alarm tests do building, mechanical, and electrical inspectors find problems???And could the fire inspector or just one of the other three have found them?


That is a good question that I don't have the answer to. There are problems at almost all of them but believe that you don't need 4 different city people on site if it's going to cost more money or the resources could be used else where. Before I made the change I wanted to hear from other building/code officials. Thanks for the response!


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## cda (Dec 8, 2014)

I guess the other survey is how many fire alarm tests have been done in the last years, by years

and anticipation for the next couple of years

If you say do one a month, then could go with the committee inspection,

if say one or two a week, than might just look at chopping some of the committee.

Also, look at maybe two people from the building department that have more all around knowledge and designate them as one of the person's on  the test, and you also have a back up incase the other is busy.


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## Joker (Dec 8, 2014)

cda said:
			
		

> I guess the other survey is how many fire alarm tests have been done in the last years, by yearsand anticipation for the next couple of years
> 
> If you say do one a month, then could go with the committee inspection,
> 
> ...


CDA

We do 2-3 per week MINIMUM. Sometimes its 2 per day. And it's going to get busier over the next 2-4 years. Thanks for the advice!


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## cda (Dec 8, 2014)

dang, now that is a lot of people hours tied up in 4-6 people!!!

Forgot you are the BO

and can do changes

who normally is in charge of the test??? building or fire?


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## Joker (Dec 8, 2014)

cda said:
			
		

> dang, now that is a lot of people hours tied up in 4-6 people!!!Forgot you are the BO
> 
> and can do changes
> 
> who normally is in charge of the test??? building or fire?


Thats the fun part. Ask either one and theyll probably say they are AND their both right. The rule is... theyre supposed to work together and get the job done. If there are conflicts that they cant work out, they're supposed to take it up the chain till it gets resolved. Nothing has gotten to my level in 2+ years.


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## cda (Dec 8, 2014)

Joker said:
			
		

> Thats the fun part. Ask either one and theyll probably say they are AND their both right. The rule is... theyre supposed to work together and get the job done. If there are conflicts that they cant work out, they're supposed to take it up the chain till it gets resolved. Nothing has gotten to my level in 2+ years.


Sounds good


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## FM William Burns (Dec 8, 2014)

Coming from a large metro area and now in a mild manor rural community having experienced major growth and continues to do so I have realized in my 30 year career that duplications of services is not cost effective and counterproductive.  In the event a community has a “qualified”person(s) on staff assuring the functionality and proper design of a fire protection system and associated system equipment functions there is really no need to have multiple inspectors overseeing or witnessing an acceptance or re-acceptance test.  Trying to schedule all the disciplines to be there at the same time is a logistical nightmare and also creates hardship for your customers and in most cases delays the process.  The former metro area and my present area uses the experienced and “qualified” person whoever that may be.  If the other disciplines can show up to the "scheduled" inspection great but they should not bog down the inspection with questions after questions especially if there are multiple systems and inspections to conduct during one’s regular hours.  If there are deficiencies encountered have them corrected on the spot if possible in a timely manner and if not timely, well that's on the effected contractor and rescheduling is then necessary on their dime not the City's.  It’s not and never should be a power trip or who has the bigger hammer, it should always be a customer service thing and how to best usethe resources available to achieve excellent customer service.


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