# Your  Career



## north star

*: - : - :*

I have been thinking about submitting this topic for

awhile now, ...thought that I would see if there is

any interest.

A lot of us are somewhere in our careers as Code

Officials, ...Contractors and RDP's.....Some are at

the twilight of their careers, ...some are in the

middle, ...some are at the beginning, and some are

at various points along the way.

Do any of you ever have questions about your

career ?.........Such as: Should I stay or go some-

where else, ...How To Ask For More Money, ...What

are the "tea leaves" in your particular location

looking like, ...How Do I Obtain More Training, ...My

fellow Code Officials are doing XXX under the table,

should I report this to Management or keep quiet,

...Is the grass really greener over there, or does it

just appear to be greener from here, and on and on

and on.

IMO, ...sometimes the answers are pretty easy,

other times, it's a complicated situation that

[ might ] benefit those asking or trying to evaluate

their employment position.

The regular visitors on this Forum have read the

situations [ posted on here ] where some have been

in some pretty lousy employment positions, and

have asked the Forum members & Sawhorses for

input [ no names or locations will be mentioned ] !

*My question is,* ...do you think that a "new" category

called *Career Management* would benefit those who

are trying to honestly evaluate their positions,

...either for the short term, ...for the long term or

both, ...or maybe even not at all?

I am seeking input from the members and Sawhorses,

because I find myself needing input on a regular

basis.

Thank you for your consideration and input!

FWIW, ...anonymity about you and your location is

highly suggested !



*: - : - :*


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## cda

I do not think we need a new thread, just put it under off topic or code administration

we are always here to give an opinion


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## Mac

"we are always here to give an opinion"  Yep, and most are not shy about it!

Some days I need career advice, and some days learn something I'd like to share. It would be good to have a thread for that.


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## JPohling

I think that's a great topic for discussion...............ranting


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## hlfireinspector

I think this would be a good thread for code officals that have been through the rimger to pass on "this is what I did and this was the outcome". Today we just hired a firefighter from a nearby city department that is giving up his postion as fire inspector after 8 years because of political pressures. He was a very good inspector but got caughtup in election BS. When he told his story it sounded like I was hearing myself talk. He is going back to riding backwards and starting all over.


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## ICE

I'm not so sure that we should let the public see behind the curtain.


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## FM William Burns

> I'm not so sure that we should let the public see behind the curtain.


That's pretty funny and posssibly true...........I would support Admin adding a new Topic under "Career Chat" for the subscribers.


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## north star

*: - :*

FWIW, ...if you have an opinion one way or the other,

please send a PM to Jeff and let him know your

thoughts.......We all can improve this Forum if we let

Jeff know!.............Thanks !

I`ll throw out the first pitch and see where it goes...

*Question:*

In your current employment position, let's call that

Plan "A", ...do any of you have a Plan "B" in place, or

Plan "C" if you suddenly find your self without a Plan

"A" ?.......In some more words, ...if you suddenly find

yourself unemployed, have you got another job or

[ potential ] job lined up, or another career field ?

*: - :*


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## Mac

Me first!

I am about a year and a half from retirement, and have something to protect. Over the years I have learned a lot of ways to accomplish the job-related requirements. Something bad can erupt at almost any time and you just have to handle it according to your knowlege, skills, and the responsibilities of your employer. New York state gives AHJ's parameters and minimum requirements, and if we are in compliance with the state law, then we are doing everything we are supposed to. As long as I can say I handled a situation in compliance with NY law, that's a high degree of protection for all involved, including your elected officials.

If, on the other hand, I say "Well I thought the whole thing would simply go away" or "I told those guys to work it out" then there is a certain... 'exposure'... and I might have to get my resume up to date.


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## ICE

north star said:
			
		

> *: - :* ...if you suddenly find
> 
> yourself unemployed, have you got another job or
> 
> [ potential ] job lined up, or another career field ?
> 
> *: - :*


Hit man...


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## Alias

Plan A - Retire in 4 years at 62 from the city.

Plan B - Reality hit and I have no job next month.  So, move Plan A forward 4 years and physically and literally move on.  I will miss this place but, it must be my time to leave here.

Sue

Oh.....and karma's a B*tch


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## Daddy-0-

I was just diagnosed with terminal brain cancer. I am 40 years old with a young family and only 4 years into my inspection career. My plan B advice is to plan for the unimaginable by purchasing stuff you will never think you will need like long term disability insurance. Not looking for a bunch of sympathy here but I am glad that I spent a few bucks every month for insurance and saved my sick time.


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## hlfireinspector

Praying Daddy-O


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## north star

*: - :*

Daddy-O,

I am sorry to hear of your bad news!......Thank you

posting on here and letting us know.

I will lift you and your family up to The Father in

prayer!

*~ : ~*


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## fatboy

Hearing Daddy-o's horrible news makes most of the other stuff pretty trivial. Hanng tough friend, we all have you in our thoughts and prayers.


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## JPohling

Man!  What a sucker punch to the gut!  I feel sick.  I totally agree with you Fatboy this sure puts things into perspective when you think your day isnt going well.

Stay positive and fight hard!  I have seen some unexplainable recoveries from these types of diagnosis.  Prayers coming your way!


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## Mac

Yow! This code stuff suddenly becomes trivial. Daddy-o we are all pulling for you.


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## Alias

After being diagnosed with lung cancer in 2007, yes, it definitely puts a new spin on things.  Cancer is a horrid, horrid disease.  I now live each day to the fullest.

Daddy-O, I'm praying mightily for you.

Sue


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## ewenme

Daddy-O, don't give in or give up, but do make peace with whatever happens. Love will get you through. Praying.


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## Daddy-0-

Thank you all. I have faith and a strong support group of friends and family. Don't let me kill the thread.


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## fatboy

And I was the one that turned it, let's get this one back where it started, there is another thread that is ongoing about Daddy-O that we all can track and comment on. Sorry  I derailed this one.


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## JPohling

Ok,  I will try and get us back on topic.  Who is considering becoming a CASp?  and what are your biggest concerns if you become one?  I am unsure of the liability and that scares me.


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## Inspector Gift

Alias said:
			
		

> Oh.....and karma's a B*tch


Sue, you're one of those who I come to appreciate and admire by reading your posts on this board.  Thank you!!  -- Stay true to your calling.  You have made this world a better place.


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## Bootleg

JPohling said:
			
		

> Ok,  I will try and get us back on topic.  Who is considering becoming a CASp?  and what are your biggest concerns if you become one?  I am unsure of the liability and that scares me.


What is a CASp?


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## north star

*: - : - : - :*





> "And I was the one that turned it, let's get this one back where it started, there is anotherthread that is ongoing about Daddy-O that we all can track and comment on.......Sorry I derailed
> 
> this one."






> "Ok, I will try and get us back on topic.........Who is considering becoming a CASp? andwhat are your biggest concerns if you become one?.......I am unsure of the liability and that
> 
> scares me."


fatboy,

No apologies needed !......We have a Forum family member who is in need,

and IMO, ...our prayers & resources should be directed to assist him and

his family in any way we can, ...not out of some type of obligation, but

rather because, ...he *IS* family ! :agree

JPohling,

I have obtained some info regarding the CASp testing & certification,

and would like to add the certification to my others......My biggest hurdle

is the funding to obtain it.

*NEXT QUESTION:*

Regardless of where you are in career, ...how many of you have or keep

an updated resume ?

*: - : - : - :*


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## north star

*= = =*





> "What is a CASp?"


A California Accessibility Specialist..........FWIW, this certification

is more stringent than the ICC [ version ] of an Accessibility

certification.

*= = =*


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## mtlogcabin

Never have kept an "updated" resume.  My "goal" is to become an MCP. Commercial electrical will be my biggest hurdle and is all I need on the core side and 3 more points on the elective side will do it. I haven't worked towards that in the last 18 months so I need to get motivated again.


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## Alias

north star said:
			
		

> *= = =*
> 
> A California Accessibility Specialist..........FWIW, this certification
> 
> is more stringent than the ICC [ version ] of an Accessibility
> 
> certification.
> 
> *= = =*


And costly.  Last time I checked, about $1600 for the cert.

State of CA passed a law requiring every building department in the state to have a ratio of 1 CASp to every 2 building department personnel.  A very large challenge for me as I am  party of 1 and a budget of $800 for training/certs/etc.

Sue, the lawbreaker......:cowboy


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## north star

*: - : - :*

*REVISED NEXT QUESTION:*

In your opinion, ...regardless of where you are at in your position

of employment, ...should you have or keep an updated resume ?

I am seeking the input from everyone, including the lurkers and

non-regular posters.......Your opinions *DO* matter !

*: - : - :*


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## fatboy

As long as I don't leave this job, my resume has been update for the last 6 years or so!


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## ICE

I don't know but I've been told.......the CASp test is brutal.......Certified CASp inspectors are charging $2500.00 per.......there's less than 400 statewide........they all drive Porsches.


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## ewenme

The resume should be something you look at every year, at a minimum. What have you done in the past year that would enhance your resume? Nothing? Great things? Be more critical of your resume as time goes on: have you done extra-curricular, unpaid, community-oriented, volunteer things that show the type of person you are? Put them on your resume. You must place value on the things you do when you are working your butt off to make a living. I'm not just my job; I have a life too. Sometimes the things you don't get paid for have a great impact on how your resume is viewed [this from a former HR Director]. When I look at resumes, I can read through the BS and get a sense of the person by what they include or exclude from the resume.  Besides, it's easier to edit what you have on a regular basis than it is to put a new resume together on short notice.

Retirement from one job may not be the end of your 'career.' In a quiet moment, sit down and contemplate where you think you want to go/be. Are you moving in that direction? Are you struggling to answer why you are on the path you find yourself on? Each individual has a multitude of choices and we are each the sum of our choices. We can make different choices, after weighing all the factors and advantages. There really are no disadvantages when making a choice between two paths: a disadvantage for one path would be an advantage for the other path. If you only look at the advantages then you make a choice/decision based on positives. That in itself puts you on the higher path. Take the high road and you'll never see disappointment. Not that you might not struggle at some point, but the struggle might be worth the work it takes to get through.

Can we ask for a "Career Philosophy" topic?

Carol


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## north star

*: = = :*





> "Can we ask for a "Career Philosophy" topic?"


Yes, ...absolutely Carol !......Might I suggest that you start aseparate topic and offer it up for discussion.

Selfishly I must admit, but I would like to have / create

a whole separate category just for Career related topics

& discussion......I know that when I first started out as an

inspector [ in the last ice age ], ...I wish I had had a place

to go and ask questions........My hope is that this "new"

category will further enhance this Forum and encourage

people to visit, engage and join as a Sawhorsie!.....A "new"

category won't be created unless you contact Jeff and

provide him with your feedback.

We are all on a journey of learning, and this Forum

*GREATLY* assists me along the way !

*Again*, ...if you have any type of opinion one way or the

other, ...please contact Jeff with your thoughts !

*: = = :*


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## Big Willie

This topic is timely!  I have a couple of questions.

I am considering Greener Pastures and would like to know, "Is it courteous, proper, or other to let your

current employer know that you are looking",  or would you look, possibly interview, without letting your

current employer know?  Also, would you want a possible new employer to contact your current employer?

Sometimes this question is on the employment application.


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## Uncle Bob

I'm the last person you want to emulate when it comes to job security; mostly because it's way down on my list of things I worry about.  Most of you have families and keeping the job is extremely important, especially nowadays.  At 69, I wouldn't hesitate to walk out tomorrow if I was told I have to compromise code compliance.  I've been on this job for near a year; and am having extraordinary success at getting code compliance (this one is a miracle).  Given that, I suggest everyone take a night course on job interviewing (most college human resource departments give the course and it's usually free)  at your local community college; at least once every few years (even if you are happy with your job).  They will help you keep from stumbling with new interview questions; and with your resume. I taught such a course a few years ago with the help of the college HR department and the results were amazing.  Knowing how to interview in todays world is as important as being good at what you do or having a truck load of certs.  I too agree that having a separate topic on careers would be a great idea.  Uncle Bob


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## tmurray

Big Willie said:
			
		

> This topic is timely!  I have a couple of questions.I am considering Greener Pastures and would like to know, "Is it courteous, proper, or other to let your
> 
> current employer know that you are looking",  or would you look, possibly interview, without letting your
> 
> current employer know?  Also, would you want a possible new employer to contact your current employer?
> 
> Sometimes this question is on the employment application.


I wouldn't tell my current employer I was looking until final selection stages. Also, I would ask that the possible new employer to wait and contact the current employer until the final selection stages and after I have told them I was looking for other employment. If you explain all this in the interview they should be fine with it, and if they aren't this might not be a good place to work.


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## fireguy

Big Willie said:
			
		

> This topic is timely!  I have a couple of questions.I am considering Greener Pastures and would like to know, "Is it courteous, proper, or other to let your
> 
> current employer know that you are looking",  or would you look, possibly interview, without letting your
> 
> current employer know?  Also, would you want a possible new employer to contact your current employer?
> 
> Sometimes this question is on the employment application.


If I know you are looking, I will also be looking.  You are concentrating on one person, yourself. I am responsible for myself, my customers and my other employees.  You got outvoted.


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## mtlogcabin

Big Willie said:
			
		

> This topic is timely!  I have a couple of questions.I am considering Greener Pastures and would like to know, "Is it courteous, proper, or other to let your
> 
> current employer know that you are looking",  or would you look, possibly interview, without letting your
> 
> current employer know?  Also, would you want a possible new employer to contact your current employer?
> 
> Sometimes this question is on the employment application.


I have no problem with an employee seeking "greener pastures" and would be more then willing to help them in the process. Some I would be willing because I would love to see them leave and the others because they are good employees and are seeking to advance their careers or provide a better life for them and/or their families. Who can fault someone for that. "Greener Pastures" are different for different people, some it is money, others it is a better place to raise a family or be closer to extended families, As a BO do I like to advertise, interview and then train a new person? Not really but change is good and an opportunity for an organization re-evaluate how we operate and give the remaining employees an opportunity for advancement or maybe just a lateral change in job duties which may be needed to ***** morale and eliminate complacency.


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## fatboy

I agree............... :agree


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## Frank

north star said:
			
		

> *: - : - :**REVISED NEXT QUESTION:*
> 
> In your opinion, ...regardless of where you are at in your position
> 
> of employment, ...should you have or keep an updated resume ?
> 
> I am seeking the input from everyone, including the lurkers and
> 
> non-regular posters.......Your opinions *DO* matter !
> 
> *: - : - :*


One should always keep an updated resume.  It is useful for applying for various committee slots, boards, and other things.  And you never know when an opportunity may arise or you find yourself on the street due to budget cuts or other unforseen circumstances.


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## north star

*: - :*

*Next Round Of Questions:*

Should your employer being paying for your certifications,

...testing, ...renewals, ...CEU's ?......If not, should they

be paying for a portion of these expenses ?.......If they

are not paying for any of them, ...what would you do,

or what would recommend doing ?



*: - :*


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## steveray

Yes....unfortunately the state has some OK free classes (through a program that we pay for out of our permit fees) so we don't get to go to any big national stuff....keeps up the certs, but not usually the highest caliber....I get more education here...


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## Uncle Bob

north star said:
			
		

> *: - :**Next Round Of Questions:*
> 
> Should your employer being paying for your certifications,
> 
> ...testing, ...renewals, ...CEU's ?......If not, should they
> 
> be paying for a portion of these expenses ?.......If they
> 
> are not paying for any of them, ...what would you do,
> 
> or what would recommend doing ?
> 
> 
> 
> *: - :*


I've always paid for my own training, certs, and licenses.  I've spent tens of thousands and it's worth it to me.  They are mine!  However many municipalities will pay for training; and some will not.


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## ewenme

In the beginning, I paid for my own certs/tests and I considered it a good investment in myself. My current and previous employers have paid for new cert/testing, and also for the classes to earn CEUs to retain the certs. An employer who invests in the professional development of its employees has the right thinking behind it. If you are willing to invest in your own advancement/development as a professional, your employer will appreciate you, and if that employer is willing to fund your professional development, you have a really good position! Keep learning and you'll always have a job.


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## fatboy

I've been lucky in that my employer has always paid for training, cert tests, renewals. It is to their advantage that I have the skills and qualifications. We do not however get additional pay for obtaining additional certs.


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## mtlogcabin

Same here except we do get additional pay for obtaining related certs. It took over one year of fighting the union to get it approved in the contract.


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## Keystone

Should your employer pay for Cert's, CEU's, etc.... NO...   IMO, even though employers may deduct several thousand dollars worth of training per year per employee I feel it is the responsibility of the employee to complete and or maintain his/her education.

I have been fortunate enough to work with employers who will pay for it but the only way I utilize that offering is if they want something that is not in my plan or order of completion.


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## Little_Guy

I take the training and the pay for the certifications when covered by my jurisdiction, I look at it as part of my compensation package. I don't have long range disability except for worker comp so this is one of the little things that help make up for it. Working for the jurisdiction use to be until retirement but with the economy so screwed up now days you need to keep up with the changes and be ready to change horses in mid stream, I cruise the help wanted section on the forum, helps me keep up with what to look for and see what the pay out there is doing, It helps me see who is requiring a degree to hang a stop work and who is not.


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## ICE

My employer led me to believe that I would be reimbursed for expenses related to re-certification.  Back then, a test was required.  That meant buying the code books because the jurisdiction is always a few code cycles behind.  Five code books and five tests.  I submitted the receipts and was paid $25.00  When I inquired about the disparity I was told "Certifications don't mean anything" "They are required to be hired but certifications do not guarantee competence"

One would think that the testament to an inspectors competence would be the fact that the person was hired to perform as an inspector.  After all, who would hire a person that lacks competence in the codes?  As it turns out, that would be my employer.  During the hiring process I was not asked a code question..not one.  I asked the interview panel why they had not asked any code questions and they replied that they wouldn't know what to ask.


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## mmmarvel

north star said:
			
		

> *: - : - :**REVISED NEXT QUESTION:*
> 
> In your opinion, ...regardless of where you are at in your position
> 
> of employment, ...should you have or keep an updated resume ?
> 
> I am seeking the input from everyone, including the lurkers and
> 
> non-regular posters.......Your opinions *DO* matter !
> 
> *: - : - :*


I'll answer both questions -

First, while I tried for various positions here at the city, I'm still an Airport Construction Inspector.  There are certainly worse jobs.  Wondering if my age (about to be ... ahem, 60, is having an affect).  I need one more year here in some capacity with the city to become vested so, in one capacity or another I'm here a minimum of a year (probably longer).

Second -

Yeah, I think it's a good idea to always have an updated resume.  Do I?  No, but I'm almost 60 and no one will hire me (ha-ha).


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## pwood

mmmarvel said:
			
		

> I'll answer both questions -Second -
> 
> Yeah, I think it's a good idea to always have an updated resume. Do I? No, but I'm almost 60 and no one will hire me (ha-ha).


 i know the feeling. I'm a few heartbeats away from 62 and I wouldn't hire me. Resume? PHHHFT!


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## Alias

mmmarvel said:
			
		

> Second -
> 
> Yeah, I think it's a good idea to always have an updated resume.  Do I?  No, but I'm almost 60 and no one will hire me (ha-ha).


I don't own an updated resume.......yet.  At 58 and a half, and being made redundant as of tomorrow, I know need to do something but just can't move that direction yet.  Right now, I'm concentrating on moving and getting the h*ll out of here.  I'll be leaving California and watching it disappear in the rear view mirror.........Calumet Michigan, here I come!   

Sue


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## FM William Burns

You shouldn't have a problem getting stuff transferred here Sue.

Regarding the question on point...........I always keep mine updated in addition to my CV because one never knows.........


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## Uncle Bob

pwood said:
			
		

> i know the feeling. I'm a few heartbeats away from 62 and I wouldn't hire me. Resume? PHHHFT!


Aw, come on you youngsters; I was 68 when I got this job last year.  Why do you think God made "Just for Men" hair color?


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## globe trekker

We were not created to retire!   We are supposed to be working our entire lives,

in the ministry that we have been placed in.

.


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## joetheinspector

as far as employer paying for CEU. Yes minimum to maintain your certs.

as far as employer paying for certs. NO.

As far as getting more money or a better performance review for getting certs. No No No.

I still get certs on my own time and my own dime. If I put down any accomplishment (such as getting a cert or two) above and beyond what is required at performance review time. They say well we won't include that because we did not ask you to do it.

Anyway, it is good to plug away and pick up certs here and there. It helps me with knowledge now and I have to believe it might help me large in the future. It sure will not hurt.

Life is good.


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## pwood

Uncle Bob said:
			
		

> Aw, come on you youngsters; I was 68 when I got this job last year. Why do you think God made "Just for Men" hair color?


it is good if you got hair!:mrgreen: I will keep working a reduced schedule for my jurisdiction  and for the Habitat.


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## Big Willie

*A Different Question:*

You see an employment opportunity out there and think that it is a Greener Pasture.

What are some things that you would be looking for to possibly avert the Greener Pasture

from becoming "you leaving the frying pan and entering in to the fire"?

Essentially, what things would you be looking for to determine that that Greener Pasture

isn't a worse place to become employed than where you are currently at?  How does one

ascertain "the culture" of an employer?


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## Mac

1. How long has the position been vacant =  how deep a hole do I have to dig out of?

2. Do the local boards (planning, zoning, trustees/council) support vigorous enforcement =  will they support the decisions you must make?

3. How busy is the department? =  numbers of permits by year, nature of projects, enforcement actions etc

4. What became of the previous codes person? =  terminated is bad, retired happily is good

5. Ask to see the workspace =  open some files and snoop around, look for problems

Drive or walk around the place. What you see can speak volumes. Empty buildings kept up? Ongoing projects well managed? Who can tell you of thier exepriences with the local scene? (some people you know ever do business there?)

Ultimately it's a coin toss, but also the job becomes what you make of it. I'm in my last codes job, and when I started here seven years ago it was uphill all the way. Within four or five months I had the backlog cleared, met all the cast of characters, and knew where some of the bodies were buried.

OH YEA, AND  HOW FAR A COMMUTE IS IT?


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## rshuey

globe trekker said:
			
		

> We were not created to retire!   We are supposed to be working our entire lives,in the ministry that we have been placed in.
> 
> .


I have 13 years in with my state retirement, I am 37 years old. I can retire when I'm 55. I can't wait. I'm moving South and working for Jeff. haha


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## FM William Burns

> Essentially, what things would you be looking for to determine that that Greener Pasture isn't a worse place to become employed than where you are currently at? How does one ascertain "the culture" of an employer?


One must investigate the area, job and people before making a leap.  Interview some people in the area and research the department, position read council minutes or watch public access TV in the area to get an idea.  One must answer the question if the area or job will be better for the homefront also.  Personally, if I would have stayed in South Florida, I would be retired back in 07 but may be a basket case too.  The simple easy going lifestyles here were great for raising and growing my family so that was worth it to me personally.  The job sucked for the first 2 years and then for another 6 until management got what came around.  Now it is what I expected to be years ago and I'm glad I hung in here because I know I'm making a difference.


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## ewenme

Shame on you, whoever you are, if you think age is a credible reason to hire or not to hire. That's illegal. When I came to my current job I was a little over 60, and now I'm approaching 66. I plan to retire at the end of this month, as that was my aim: retire at 65 IF I CAN AFFORD IT. My financial guru says I can afford it, and I have so many plans on what I could be doing with my time, that now seems right. I want to do consulting on codes and code compliance, do some instructing [hopefully with ICC approval/accreditation], design houses, make quilts, and find time to do the arts and music that I love. Retirement from one job, but not to the rocking chair. My Dad told me that retiring to the rocking chair was a fast track to the grave. I believe him. I've seen it happen, and it's not for me. Activity is what keeps you young and alive. Carry on, grasshoppers!


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## north star

*: = :*

Carol,

You're not going to leave us here are you ?.......Just because

you're switching careers doesn't mean that you will not

continue to be a regular contributor on here does it ?   

*: = :*


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## fatboy

I concur with north star......


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## Daddy-0-

Do a ride along with the B.O. or inspector. You can not only pick their brain a little but you can see a few job sites and see if they are serious about enforcing codes or if they are too buddy buddy with the contractors.....and always update your resume or you will forget dates and other important information.

Question. If your department will not pay for certifications how is there a career ladder? My jurisdiction encourages bettering yourself with incentives. The career ladder is based on certifications among other things and all ICC certs that are passed are reimbursed. Provides motivation to better yourself which in in turn will better the department.


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## joetheinspector

"Question. If your department will not pay for certifications how is there a career ladder?"

There is not much of a career ladder. When the BO retires I can apply for the job. I have gotten certs and experience that more than quilifies me for BO position.

Our County does not promote from within very often. Mostly they hire someone from outside and have the people below them train them.

I continue to work on certs for my own personal development and I would like to think that my certs will pay off with a future job.


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## RJJ

I would agree that there is not a big ladder in the inspection business. Having been under the bus a few times I know this. I quit a job I was at for 25 years. Some may think big money I left behind. Well I had enough of the political BS. There was no ladder just a shaft to hell. LOL so it is up to you all to choose. I love what I do and perhaps work to much. Some days I think maybe I should toss the code books in the trash and fish for a living.


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## north star

*= = : = =*





> "Some days I think maybe I should toss the code books in the trash and fish for a living.:grin:


I would most hardily disagree with you **RJJ**......It isbecause of people like you and your passion that greatly

improves the inspection career field.....I will also agree

that there isn't much of a career ladder in this industry.

Lots of political BS for sure, but I believe, ...by & large,

that we enjoy what we do.....If those elected officials

would just let us do what we are trained to do!

D`OH !!    

*= = : = =*


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## north star

*= = =*

*Next Question:* You have been employed "in the codes" for

awhile now..........Think that you have a pretty good understanding

of the actual codes themselves, ...somewhat savvy on the

political end as well, ...can perform the research to look for

that lost nuggett that just keeps troubling you and on and on

and on.

You see that others are coming behind you to start their

careers as a code official [ *RE:* Inspector, Code Official, FCO,

Plans Examiner, Zoning Director, other ].

If you could pass on 2 or 3 points of [ hard learned ] wisdom

to the juniors, what would you say to them [ that is

considering that they may actually listen to you ] ?

Yeah, ...that's a BIG maybe !   

*= = =*


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## mtlogcabin

1. Don't jump directly to a specific code section. Always know the charging language of a codes that direct you to use that section.

2. Remember what the big print taketh away the little print giveth back. In other words read the exceptions and footnotes.

3. Don't be afraid to admit you do not know the answer or that you where wrong with an answer.


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## Jobsaver

north star said:
			
		

> *= = =**Next Question:* If you could pass on 2 or 3 points of [ hard learned ] wisdom
> 
> to the juniors, what would you say to them [ that is
> 
> considering that they may actually listen to you ] ?
> 
> Yeah, ...that's a BIG maybe !
> 
> *= = =*


1. Concerning the political environments: It sometimes takes a lot of time and patience to promulgate good laws and administrative policy . . . especially to replace established and badly outdated bad laws or administrative policy. Sometimes you just have to wait for your opponent to retire or die.

2. Do not become angry if people do not eagerly respond to a correction notice. Be a good and polite educator first, then a firm executive having authority when required. If you are not used to having a position of authority and power, it will serve you well to quietly remember it at time where emotions get loud.

3.  Sometimes, when driving to an out of town relative's house to pick up your granddaughter, you will see a sign on back of an eighteen wheeler advertising the potential income of a truck driver, and wonder why you are working for such low pay. I cannot offer any advice on dealing with this.


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## RJJ

I need to think about that before I give the 30 second response. I will be back.


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## FM William Burns

Hope so........I've missed you!


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## FM William Burns

Now back to the questions at hand..........

It's not about you, practice exceptional customer service.

Develop the ability to explain why something is non-compliant. (learn the adopted code and referenced codes)

Choose your battles.

Read MT's answers.

OR

Like I teach the new firefighters......

Bench 250

Cook 350

Pick up your check every 2 weeks

*Happy Father's Day.....all applicable!*


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## RJJ

Here is a brief response! This would have to do with meetings on new applications and some things apply to everything.

1. Listen well! & listen some more before putting mouth in operation.

2. Be a man/women who is always grounded and true to their word.

3. Develop questions that will lead to a better understanding of the project. Leave the I know all attitude at home and conduct the meeting in the spirit of how can I approve this application. That will perhaps allow less NO answers.

4. Reserve real comment until you have reviewed all the code issues and info provided. Do your home work. Read the code and then read it again! Even after years of doing this I find I tend make mistakes when I assume the code says this when in fact it does not.

5. Education: With every thing one does try to teach. Continue to learn and strive for excellence.


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## fatboy

I'll go with RJJ, spot on.........

And all the others have valid points also.


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## RJJ

Thanks! Oh large one! There is a great deal more then just meetings I believe we would all agree on that point. That was just the tip of the hook. Problem for me is that now at my age and time in the industry " I have no time for stupid " and have to correct myself / bite my tongue most of the day.


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## north star

*= = =*



Excellent discussions and input so far!.......Keep it coming!

*Next Question:*  In your present position, you see a "supervisor / colleague /

subordinate doing something inappropriate [ *RE:* against the written AHJ

policies  ].....Do you:

*1)*  "Rat them out" to someone over them that can actually do something

about it,   or

*2)* Go to that person to discuss, possibly counsel them on their activity,  or

*3)* Do nothing at all and wait for the karma bus to come around to solve the

situation,  or 

*4)* other ?

Essentially, is it in your job expectations to correct someone, ...even a

supervisor or a subordinate "NOT" under your direct supervision ?

What say ye ?

*= = =*


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## fatboy

I would have to take #2 first, then if no results, and the resulting activity could be a life safety issue, or a public debacle for the office, then move to #1,  or #4 if I don't think the situation will be corrected, time to move on to another pasture..........


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## RJJ

If would depend on the issue! If it was a hill worth dying on I would do all of the above. However, I would first handle it with the person that has crossed the line. Giving ample time to correct the problem.


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## north star

*= **&** = **&** =*

Thanks to all for your input!

*Next Question:* You have received a request for an interview; with that

Greener Pasture, and after the [ _____ ] interview, they want to offer

you the position......In their offer, ...they verbally offer you this, that &

the other......Would you request their offer and the associated bennies

& perks in writing [ i.e. - their proposal ], or would you accept their

offer of employment, with nothing in writing, ...verbally only ?

Sometimes, having something in writing seems to have more credibility

to it.

I'm thinking of the gub`mint Greener Pastures moreso than the private

sector, but I would like to hear your input and experiences either way!

Thanks !

*& **= **& **=** &*


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## Jobsaver

When accepting and starting a new position, for most rank and file employees (us), there is going to be a time to see if things fit . . . and it is going to be a two way street. I have always been happy, when accepting a position, to shake hands to seal an agreement and move forward in good faith. Likewise. I pretty much "punch the clock" each day in good faith that on average, my employer wants me here and believes they are getting their money's worth.

Should they come to believe differently, I'll move on because I would not last long in that environment. One important idea is to remember who your boss is. When the chain of command or lack thereof becomes confusing in a world where so many elected and apppointed positions and officials exist, let the confusion remain theirs.


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## ewenme

I believe that is a policy choice of the jurisdiction. I received a written offer, which I was asked to sign, and which I was bound to along with the City. Good practice, and one that potential employees should appreciate, and take very seriously. When you sign, you are signifying that you understand the job, the requirements, the expectations, the pay, and the parameters that affect you. I look at it as binding to both sides; however, there is that 'probationary' period that you also agree to. If it doesn't work out for either party, then it's part ways with no regrets.


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## fatboy

For me to jump ship after 16 years in my current position, I would have to see  and sign some sort of commitment.


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## RJJ

It is nice to have it in writing, but any agreement can be broken. Been on both sides of that issue and far too many to discuss. However, I have always been a man of my word, so a gentleman's agreement I will always honor to the last breath. That ain't so for most of the world. I pick only those I believe will honor the same commitment which I am willing to commit to.

Quit a position I had 25 years invested in. Had enough of the political BS at least from that group. Now the sky is the limited and when I find the right fit, I will know! A piece of paper will never come close to be the end all.


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## north star

*= : = : =*

Overall good discussion !.......Keep the comments and experiences coming.

*Next Question:* In your career; wherever you have been employed and for

whatever amount of time there, ...do you believe that you have a made a

positive difference in that location ?

This answer can be addressed in any number of ways [ i.e. - thru adoption

of model codes where there were none previously, ...interpretation &

administration of the various adopted codes, ...by providing a competent,

educational voice to the community, contractors, city officials, others,

...costs savings to that employer, ...increased any training opportunities to

employees / others, ...and on and on and on and on. ]

FWIW, ...I have observed that as code officials, for the most part, we

want to do the right thing, ...to actually help others and make a positive

difference wherever we are, ...money, perks & bennies not withstanding.

Some even go the full ride of 30+ years in this profession [ *RE:* **Mule**

and others ]..........Just getting some perspective from you all !

Thanks for your input !

*: = : = :*


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## Mac

Yes I do believe I made a positive difference over the years. If nothing else, I keep good relations with contractors, they are the users of our services. Most homeowners don't have an understanding of code enforcement. A consistent professional approach earns you credibility.

Most mayors, town supervisors, and council members just want to hear "everything is fine in the building dept". Hint - they also care more about the local laws, planning and zoning than about state-adopted building codes. Try to keep the Planning and Zoning boards in the loop and I usually have applications for them every month.

My current mayor has a history of serving on Planning and Zoning boards, and is very supportive. She understands the terminology - speaks the lingo, sort of.


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## peach

If you like your job, stick with it.. the whole greener pastures thing can be fatal to your career.. for those of us not working for jurisdictions, we are frequently bound by non compete agreements.

In the twilight of my career, I prefer to stay put thank you very much.

Earlier today, I posted in Sawhorse, vindicated.. I left a really wonderful place for what I thought was going to be better benefits and a shorter commute.. and it was a mistake.

A mistake I learned from.. I ended up with a really good offer that I declined.. the atmosphere was just too much like the toxic environment I left.. the unsaid tension was not too deep under the surface...

maybe it's just me.. 4 years, I get to start collecting military retirement.


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## Sifu

I recently received an offer.  It was verbal, with an emailed version that followed.  Maybe it would have been different if I was local but it was an out of state position.  The thing is, whether its verbal or written it is still only as honorable as the people who give it.  I tend to interview employers as much as they interview me and make the same judgement calls they do as to whether I want to work for them or not.  I needed to relocate to this area anyway so based on my judgement I had no problem accepting it.  But I can see being nervous if you are leaving an established position without some level of certainty.  Many years ago in a different career I was given an iron-clad, very detailed contract for employment to leave one company and go to another, which I did.  It was iron-clad right up until they decided it wasn't anymore.  My choice was to file suit or move on.  Maybe I could have gotten somewhere, maybe not but I just moved on.  They were banking on the fact that the little guy usually doesn't have the resources to take 'em on, and they were right.  Who wants to spend years and treasure fighting with someone who doesn't want you around anyway?


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## fatboy

I feel I have made a difference.....had a lot of things that we were enforcing before, that I have made legit by policy, or adopted amendments. Have tried to be consistent in how we interpreted the code.


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## peach

Sifu.. I did the same thing with the toxic environment from which I now feel some vindication.  I could have fought, but I didn't have the resources for what would have been a prolonged battle.  (Primarily since the jurisdications' attorney was the same firm I hired to handle a personal matter).  I'll say it again, unless there is an overarching reason to leave, it's probably better to stay where you are.

If you are really, truly miserable in your current job OR you realize the deck is stacked against you for some reason you can't overcome.. then consider leaving.


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## Sifu

The hard thing for me in my current situation is I like where I am, especially compared to where I was a year ago (except the commute!).  Never worked with a better, smarter more open minded group before.  Circumstances require a move, not misery.  I can only hope things will be similar where I end up.  I do believe one thing, though sometimes I need reminded of it;  I have the power to help make my own environment better....or worse.  I try to be positive, contribute and most importantly not assist with or allow myself to be trapped by someone elses misery.  I think its amazing the affect one persons attitude can have on a group, whether its good or bad.  Of course some of us have been places where no matter what we do the poison is too strong so its just better to back up and punt.  I will say, all of my bad experiences have led to better ones, I guess thats karma!


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## north star

*= : = : =*

Good info so far !.......Thought I would "stoke the fire" again to continue this thread.

*Next Question:*  In these very tough economic times [ for some ], ...what, if anything,

are you doing to add value to yourself, and to [ hopefully ] not get laid off or forced

retirement ?

Some examples might be: Working some "volunteer" hours, ...learning to become

fluent in a software application, ...taking some after hours courses/classes, ...paying

for your own certifications & testing, ...taking some online courses, and on and on and

on.

*= : = : =*


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## fatboy

I have become more involved with our State Chapter, Code Changes, serving on the BOD. This enhances my knowledge of the codes, and what may be coming up, thus benefitting the jurisdiction.


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## north star

*# ~ # ~ #*

Greetings again to you all !

Thought I would resurrect this Topic to see if anyone has some experiences

[ good or bad ] that you want to share, ...insights, ...questions, or other.

Again, ...IMO, anonymity is recommended, plus I do not know how someone

could realistically "slam" a particular location \ employer, and come out

maintaining any integrity.

O.K, ...let the discussion continue !   ..and "Thanks" !.......Maybe someone

will benefit from this Topic !      

*# ~ # ~ #*


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## cda

""""That's not for a coach to comment on. It's just like it would be if you were lieutenant colonel and you're on your seventh deployment in Vietnam and you see some things. You see there's no way democracy is going to gain traction here and maybe you've lost some of your own troops and some of your own men in battle, but yet that's not your call. ...

"That's a bigger position that comes from beyond you. Your job is to serve and it's your job to follow orders, as it would be for that lieutenant colonel, too. ... Maybe if you realize it's 1972 and we've lost 52,000 of my fellow compatriots and you see things from a little different viewpoint and yet that's not your job. Your job is not to be that aware or have that kind of perspective. It's not. Your job is to follow orders.

"To answer your question directly, it's not the coach's job. ... It's just not your job. As a soldier and as a troop, you're right at the tip of spear, you know what gives you the best chance to win or maybe to obliterate the enemy. ...

"But your job is to serve and to follow orders and you put both heels and your toes at the 45 and you salute. That's your job. That's your job as a solider and as a coach, too.""""


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## Sifu

For various reasons I keep leaving pretty good places for what appears to be better places.  Sometimes it is better, sometimes not.  But no matter what, I try to benefit from every place I go.  I think most places are somewhat sad to see me go so maybe they benefitted from me as well.  Here is the problem....big problem.  As I look back at my resume and prepare it for my next move I see a lot of jobs with no real time spent at most of them.  If I were looking at me from the other side of the desk I would have to question that.  I believe I have legitimate reasons for moving on from each place but on paper it can't be explained, and the paper is the first point of contact.  Looking back, not sure anything could have been done much differently but it is something for folks to keep in mind.


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## north star

*# : # : #*



Thanks **Sifu** and others......That's some good stuff right there,

...for everyone to consider.

In relation to that, ...that has been a tough issue to solve........What

looks good on this side of the fence, make turn out to be a worse place

than where a person may currently be employed at.........How does

someone make a move that will actually be an improvement, ...and

NOT just considering the salary.

Keep the comments and experiences coming !





*# : # : #*


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## mtlogcabin

> I see a lot of jobs with no real time spent at most of them


You are correct if you are not spending 3 to 5 years at each location then you may not get past the paper review. You would have to have some specific reasons for jumping from job to job within a narrow time frame.



> .How doessomeone make a move that will actually be an improvement,


Define improvement.

Health, income, less stress, personal challenges/growth opportunities in a new job, new area to re-locate to or maybe closer to extended family, better schools for the kids, different climate.

We are all different, some liked to be challenged in the job, others may want to just put in time until retirement, if you enjoy going to work it is not just a job, if you don't, then a change of scenery may not be the answer to your job situation because the problem may just follow you


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## ICE

This is a serious thread about our jobs so I decided to show you what my job is like.

And this is not it.


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## linnrg

Many years ago I had a great job at a decent sized engineering firm, was a stockholder etc. it was really going well for me.

So one of my co-workers from the architectural department comes to me smiling and with an obviously upbeat attitude and says “Ralph I finally did it”.  To which I said “Lance what did you finally do?”  He then told me he had just quit.  I quickly replied “what? this is one of the best jobs I have ever had”.  His response was that “the pain in the a## factor was just too high!”

So later I am in a meeting with the president of the company and I told him the story.  He sat back looked at the ceiling and said he knew he had a problem and had not done anything about it (the problem was both internal and with our clients).  Shortly thereafter the architect that Lance was working under was let go.  That whole department got a lot better.  The firm though had lost a young energetic architect in Lance.

Like Sifu I had a string of jobs on the private sector.  The economy has been going boom and bust it seems.  At a point in my life I began making changes to ME.  One of the first was intentionally moving away from cities.  The second was when I finally had a job that had “too much paint in the a##” I woke one day just knowing that I was not going to work where I was at the time.  I made it to Alaska and now work in a great community, have a decent reputation and enjoy my home and job.  I tell people I like what I am doing because I get to help people with their dreams.

I feel for all who are in areas where the economy is on the skids.  Or for anyone who is working where the pain in the a## is too high.


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## north star

*~ ? ~ ? ~*



Good discussion and experiences so far !........Keep it

coming.............Does anyone else want to chime in on any

of the questions that have been raised so far ?

Also, ...as I mentioned earlier, if you would like a "new"

Topic Thread started on Career Philosophy, ...other

Career related info, or if you have some positive

comments in general that you want to share, then send

Jeff a PM and let him know.........I'm certain that he would

like to hear something positive.



*Next Question**:*



An organization or school or other, contacts you to give

a brief speech on being a Code Official \ Inspector \

Plans Examiner \ other...............Do you:

*1.*   politely decline

*2.*   try to find someone who you perceive to be a better

speaker for the task

*3.*   gladly jump in and give it your best shot

*4.*   other



It's o.k. for you to ask you questions too !

*~ ? ~ ? ~*


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## fatboy

We "celebrated" our 100th anniversary as a Building Inspection Department in 2012, my boss thought it would be great if I were to be the keynote speaker at the annual Historic Preservation Awards Ceremony. I was none to thrilled about it, but I  threw myself into it, did a lot of research, gave a talk on the 100 year history of the department, the evolution of construction types, and how the codes evolved with them. I was nervous as he!! about it, but it must have come off well, I receive many compliments.

So in answer to the question, suck it up and go for it, you are the professional.


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## north star

*= > = > = >*

Bump, ...bump, ...bumpity - bump !

O.K. kids, ...let's step up and keep this thread going.

I know that others have questions, and experiences

that they can share.    

*< + < + < + <*


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## north star

*& - & - &*



O.K., ...I'll lob some more out there.

The Fire Community has a long history of speaking about

fire protection, ...fire safety, ...fire prevention, etc., etc.

*QUESTION # 1:* If the the building side of the the codes

is ever going to gain some type of recognition or awareness,

[ respect if you will  ], ...then what are some things that

we need to do to further our cause ?

*QUESTION # 2*:  If we as Building Code Officials, Inspectors,

Plans Examiners, Code Enforcement Officers, and others do

not market our services [ as First Preventers ], ...who will ?

*QUESTION # 3:*  Where are you in this process ?



*& - & - &*


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