# packrat conditions



## cheyer (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm wondering how other agencies have handled complaints of "pack-rat" conditions in apartments/condo's or even single family dwellings.

What would you all consider the trigger for FD involvement?

Thanks.


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## JBI (Nov 6, 2009)

Re: packrat conditions

cheyer - Apartments and condos get handled a bit differently than SFDs in many parts of the country. California Codes are not my strong point but... The Fire Code should have requirements that exits remain clear, and should also provide for clear and unobstructed egress as well. Depending on what is being hoarded, the floors live load limit may be exceeded creating a structural concern, and the potential fire load may push them into a Hazardous category. If they are hoarding putrescible wastes like rotting meats, vegetables, etc. then the Health Codes could kick in as well.

Whatcha got?


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## mjesse (Nov 6, 2009)

Re: packrat conditions

We have a SFR in town that has had many complaints against it due to piled contents visible through the windows.

Our Village Board and department directors are strongly opposed to taking action, for fear of setting a precedent of regulating what you may or may not do inside your home. They don't want to be the stormtroopers knocking on doors to enforce cleanliness.

The resident obviously has some hoarding "issues", but the homes exterior is kept up to Village standards. Even our Fire Dept. has weighed in, and the decision has been made to let it lie.

We don't perform non-permit related interior inspections of residences nor do I want to. If we witness evidence of construction work being done without permit, then we'll begin aggressive enforcement.

The village did have a condemnation case years ago (before I was here) and it was the family members that called in to say their parents home was "uninhabitable"

mj


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## rktect 1 (Nov 6, 2009)

Re: packrat conditions

recent story.



> Cops were called by the woman's relatives to find out if she was OK - she never let anyone inside her house (for years) and her relatives would drop food at her front door for her. The past week's food drop remained outside several days after it had been left, prompting concern for the lady. Cops and search dogs could not find her on their first sweep of the filthy house with garbage piled 8 feet high. They had to return with protective suits and breathing equipment and cadaver dogs and they finally found her, dead, buried under trash.


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## cheyer (Nov 6, 2009)

Re: packrat conditions

Thanks for the replies.

John,

What I have is a complaint from an apt. owner about a tenant that allegedly has bags outside of her door, and also major pack-rat conditions inside. I informed her we would be able to help with the common area issues (egress issues), but she as the owner is ultimately responsible. I advised her to make contact with the resident to have the bags removed....but the apt. interior is a differnt issue...Social Services may have to get involved .....


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## FM William Burns (Nov 6, 2009)

Re: packrat conditions

Cheyer:

If your CA Fire Codes are based of IFC or NFPA you can use the provisions in the Combustible Waste Materials sections for commercial apartments as for the private residential dwellings, it will most likely become a health department or social service matter some jurisdictions with big problems associated to hording have created public agency task forces to address matters creating dangers to the public.

Here are some resources if your jurisdiction explores the potential for addressing found structures:

http://nsgcd.org/resources/clutterhoard ... gscale.pdf

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dpwes/trash/hoarding/

http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/MA.php

http://www.imakenews.com/ortenhindman/e ... ?x=b11,0,w

http://www.cornellaging.com/gem/hoa_faq.html


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## Daddy-0- (Nov 6, 2009)

Re: packrat conditions

I heard that hording might be addressed in the next IPMC. Anyone hear that brought up in Baltimore this week? Personally I have not had to deal with it but we all know that severe hording can cause structural failures so on some level we will have to deal with it.


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## conarb (Nov 6, 2009)

Re: packrat conditions

Simple, just give them a little George Carlin to watch.  





Click on George, he'll solve all your problems.


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## Uncle Bob (Nov 6, 2009)

Re: packrat conditions

When I had rental property; the lease agreement stated that I was responsible for all pest control for the first 30 days; after that it was the renter's responsibilities.

There was also a "no pets clause" in the contract.  If after 30 days, a renter showed me evidence of rodents; they could be charged $100.00 per day, for every day "their pet rat" was observed on the property.

I was a lovely landlord,   

Uncle Bob


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## Alias (Nov 9, 2009)

Re: packrat conditions

One of my best friends in situations like this is the County Environmental Health guy.  If it smells bad, I call him.  I can't write citations, he can.

Another route for gaining entry is through CPS/APS.  If a complaint is made, they are required to investigate.  Unfortunately, you are in a larger city in CA than I am and it might take more time to corral the cooperation of additional agencies.  Have the landlord let you in, check the common areas, and go from there.

Good luck

Sue, living la vida loca in the land of fruits and nuts


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## jim baird (Nov 10, 2009)

Re: packrat conditions

Thanks, Conarb.

Carlin has long been one of my gurus.

I tried to condemn such a house once, but made a procedural mistep and had to let it go.

Was called as a 3rd party on another such, and I unloaded on the occupant, told the AHJ that conditions I found could only be described as "squalid".

Yet again was called to assess, along with a state DFACS officer, a housing code official, and a county marshal, conditions at a "dwelling" where the heir apparent, who was a street person, would camp out.

He would be sent by courts to homelwss facilities, from which he would "escape" to this former dwelling in which he had been raised, by long dead parents, whose portraits still hung on walls over mounds of detritus.

I could not apply my services to his favor, as field tech man for CDBG money, and at some later point the house caught fire and was a total loss.


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## knockadse (Nov 12, 2009)

Re: packrat conditions

In our city both the FD and PD call us when conditions like these are viewed. We enforce the IPMC and will post residences unfit if needed (local ordinance). We also have resources to have the conditions cleaned up (non profits orgs willing to help). The largest challenge is that the occupants think of this trash as their things, and do not wish to get rid of any of them.


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