# More stupidity at its best



## Gregg Harris

usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/28/13531342-deaf-childs

The mentality or lack there of of our school systems is embarrassing at best. Who in there right mind would come up with the idea that a deaf child must change his name because the way he signs, looks like a gun.


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## Rider Rick

This country is going to h*ll.


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## globe trekker

> This country is going to h*ll.


Without God Rider Rick, you are correct!    .


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## Francis Vineyard

Let's name him "Bird" Hunter  :twisted:

Francis


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## fatboy

Yeah, I heard about this yesterday on the way to work........leaves you shaking your head wondering who sits around and thinks up this garbage. :banghd


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## mtlogcabin

> ........leaves you shaking your head wondering who sits around and thinks up this garbage. :banghd


Highly educated proffessionals who have a major influence on up and coming generations


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## Coug Dad

We here in Ne-backwards love making the press for stories like this and the Cornhusker kickback!


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## Francis Vineyard

Click here to see sign for "Hunter"



Francis


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## Paul Sweet

"The name gesture was “not an appropriate thing to do in school,” and administrators were asking Hunter to spell his name out, letter-by-letter, instead of using the sign, spokesman Jack Sheard told the Daily News. "

In addition to being @$$e$, they're opening themselves up for an ADA lawsuit if they don't require all students to spell their names out, letter-by-letter!


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## codeworks

makes ya wonder don't it! "educational institution", they got the "institution part right, not very educationaL though. i like francis' idea "bird hunter" haha. it's a pity, common sense aint to common anymore , is it. i'd pull my kid out of that school, and some administrators shorts up over their head, i tell ya what


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## Papio Bldg Dept

Coug Dad said:
			
		

> We here in Ne-backwards love making the press for stories like this and the Cornhusker kickback!


look at what we done gone and did now...look mom i'm on the news, i'm gonna be famous!  this is more backasswards than driving an edsel.


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## FM William Burns

I got a sign for them............. yea......... they're number one in my book!


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## Keystone

Political correctness, can someone find the person that started it and give'em an at-a-boy over by slapping him in the head.


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## Gregg Harris

http://news.yahoo.com/judge-orders-sex-change-mass-murder-convict-165858350.html

More stupidity at its best


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## brudgers

Gregg Harris said:
			
		

> http://news.yahoo.com/judge-orders-sex-change-mass-murder-convict-165858350.html   More stupidity at its best


  Yeah, you'd think with it being a prison and all that officials would be able to limit the risk of sexual assault.


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## GBrackins

gotta love Massachusetts .... hey wait a minute, I live here


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## RJJ

Something has to change or this country will fail!


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## Rider Rick

RJJ said:
			
		

> Something has to change or this country will fail!


RJJ,

It might be to late.


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## kilitact

The school is trying to teach the child how to function in today’s society. This gesture could potentially get the child arrested or worst.  The parents need to get their act together and learn how to raise this child.


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## fatboy

WOW, really? If that's the society you think we need to live in we are in trouble. So, I need to worry about if perhap my name, as spoken in my native tongue, might be offensive or threatening to someone else?


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## Papio Bldg Dept

Yeah, killitact might be a bit too much fatboy, but then again, I am not going to wear my native husker reds in certain neighborhoods in denver, and then there was that man in new york who was shot by police because they thought his pear was a grenade...he might have survived if they had shot him close to fifty times.  there are some common sense realities that we take for granted that may need to be considered before acting out and may have reasonable solutions.  In the case of the OP, it is clear that the school is over-reacting to the situation based upon the information provided.


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## Gregg Harris

kilitact said:
			
		

> The school is trying to teach the child how to function in today’s society. This gesture could potentially get the child arrested or worst.  The parents need to get their act together and learn how to raise this child.


You gotta be S******G me! This so called society needs to get in the real world. Perhaps you are an institutional teacher. If the school systems would focus on educational basics reading writing and arithmetic instead of using a facade of discipline and control to cover up there inability to teach, our future for these kids would not be so bleak.


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## brudgers

This thread is proof that the schools have been failing for a long time.

  And parents.


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## Francis Vineyard

kilitact said:
			
		

> This gesture could potentially get the child arrested or worst.


Unfortunately true. Society needs to lighten up so to speak.

The child is being taught the acceptable sign language; it is the institution that is sending the wrong message.

I've been involved in many fights owing to misunderstandings and held at gun point with the flashlight shined in eyes disabling me to lip read because I did not hear the commands of the law enforcement officer (LEO).

Due to lawsuits a few localities but not all LEO's are being trained in recognizing and how to respond accordingly to people with handicaps including the deaf and HOH. Unfortunately many ignore or unaware of recognizing signs.

These types institutions that focus on ideology and rewriting history instead of spending the time and resources to teach how to be considerate are what's primarily failing parents that don't know better.

My personal thanks to this administration encouraging the highest record of CCWP issuance and creating jobs at firearms and ammo factories.

Francis


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## kilitact

Francis Vineyard said:
			
		

> Unfortunately true. Society needs to lighten up so to speak.The child is being taught the acceptable sign language; it is the institution that is sending the wrong message.
> 
> I've been involved in many fights owing to misunderstandings and held at gun point with the flashlight shined in eyes disabling me to lip read because I did not hear the commands of the law enforcement officer (LEO).
> 
> Due to lawsuits a few localities but not all LEO's are being trained in recognizing and how to respond accordingly to people with handicaps including the deaf and HOH. Unfortunately many ignore or unaware of recognizing signs.
> 
> These types institutions that focus on ideology and rewriting history instead of spending the time and resources to teach how to be considerate are what's primarily failing parents that don't know better.
> 
> My personal thanks to this administration encouraging the highest record of CCWP issuance and creating jobs at firearms and ammo factories.
> 
> Francis


How many remember when carrying a knife to school or taking a 22 pea shooter to school show and tell was no big deal? In today’s world you live by certain rules, same way with code enforcement, use to be a time when a napkin drawing was good enough.  Teach the child to function in today’s society, not a society that you dream about. I would hope society would lighted up, but then I have to put a helmet on, bring back the good old days.


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## brudgers

kilitact said:
			
		

> How many remember when carrying a knife to school or taking a 22 pea shooter to school show and tell was no big deal? In today’s world you live by certain rules, same way with code enforcement, use to be a time when a napkin drawing was good enough.  Teach the child to function in today’s society, not a society that you dream about. I would hope society would lighted up, but then I have to put a helmet on, bring back the good old days.


  Yeah, nothing like ten-year olds working in a button factory.


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## mtlogcabin

brudgers said:
			
		

> Yeah, nothing like ten-year olds working in a button factory.


At least they where taught the value of work and how to work


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## brudgers

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> At least they where taught the value of work and how to work


  You could teach them how to take a punch, too.


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## High Desert

Napkins. Those were the good old days. In fact, the 1997 UBC required plans to be drawn to scale on substantial paper or cloth.


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## ICE

High Desert said:
			
		

> Napkins. Those were the good old days. In fact, the 1997 UBC required plans to be drawn to scale on substantial paper or cloth.


That's about the time that we upgraded to place settings and table cloths.  I guess it was determined that napkins aren't professional enough.


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## brudgers

There is no spoon.


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## Rider Rick

It's sounds to me that in just 55 shorts years that I have been around we have lost a lot. Sad.


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## kilitact

brudgers said:
			
		

> Yeah, nothing like ten-year olds working in a button factory.


Some think the welfare system is a better way to live and learn.


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## brudgers

Rider Rick said:
			
		

> It's sounds to me that in just 55 shorts years that I have been around we have lost a lot. Sad.


  Missing anti-miscegenation laws?   Homosexuality being illegal?

  Blacklisting Communists?

  Adult - minor sexual relationships being permissible?

  Please elaborate.


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## brudgers

kilitact said:
			
		

> Some think the welfare system is a better way to live and learn.


  Right, children should have chosen better parents.


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## mtlogcabin

> http://www.inspectpa.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png[/img] Originally Posted by *Rider Rick*
> 
> It's sounds to me that in just 55 shorts years that I have been around we have lost a lot. Sad.]





			
				brudgers said:
			
		

> Missing anti-miscegenation laws?   Homosexuality being illegal?
> 
> Blacklisting Communists?
> 
> Adult - minor sexual relationships being permissible?
> 
> Please elaborate.


Cupability for ones own actions or inactions

Loss of open dialouge and discussions for fear of being attacked as racistist, homophobic, bigoted, insensitive, or any other negative name that could be used or implied.


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## mn joe

Yea Brudgers!  The best thing about the good old days is that they are gone!

Joe


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## brudgers

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Cupability for ones own actions or inactions Loss of open dialouge and discussions for fear of being attacked as racistist, homophobic, bigoted, insensitive, or any other negative name that could be used or implied.


  So what you miss about the good old days is not being responsible for what you say.


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## kilitact

brudgers said:
			
		

> Right, children should have chosen better parents.


Or the school steps into fill the void, has in this case, created by irresponsible parents lacking the ability to comprehend the difference in raising hearing has opposed to nonhearing children in todays society.


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## rnapier

I loathe the hyper sensitivity in our schools and the intolerance of defending oneself or others, the inablity to discuss controversal issues and the inability to take responsibelity. On the other hand by the time I was 15 years old I had been in countless fights, had to deal with pediphiles more than once and while I escaped injury we just didn't talk about these things so some poor kid after me may not of been so furtunate, had over two hundred stitches and three broken bones from stupid things kids do when not supervised and so on. My 13 year old son or 14 year old daughter has not had to deal with any of these issues yet. I grew up in good neighborhoods so that was not the difference. This is all without addressing the issue of race, my son is adopted and hispanic he would of had a hard time in the schools I went to. So I am willing to deal with todays problems without longing for the old days.


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## brudgers

kilitact said:
			
		

> Or the school steps into fill the void, has in this case, created by irresponsible parents lacking the ability to comprehend the difference in raising hearing has opposed to nonhearing children in todays society.


  So wait, you want the schools to provide for the children's welfare in lieu of their parents?   This because of your deep belief that the state knows better than it's citizens, right?


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## mtlogcabin

brudgers said:
			
		

> So what you miss about the good old days is not being responsible for what you say.


You do have a gift for distorting what people say.


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## brudgers

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> You do have a gift for distorting what people say.


  You bemoan a perceived lack of accountability for actions.     Then immediately want to claim that speaking is not an action.

http://traffic.libsyn.com/philosophybites/Rae_Langton_on_Hate_Speech.mp3

  I'm just speaking plainly.


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## David Henderson

I think with all the political correctness today has caused a lot of our problems saying what you might think people want to hear instead of saying what they need to hear. they need to take a deep breath, and blow their heads out of their rear ends.


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## brudgers

David Henderson said:
			
		

> I think with all the political correctness today has caused a lot of our problems saying what you might think people want to hear instead of saying what they need to hear. they need to take a deep breath, and blow their heads out of their rear ends.


  You think this is some modern problem?   Read Plato.


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## kilitact

brudgers said:
			
		

> You think this is some modern problem?   Read Plato.


And which of his works has so strongly influence and provided direction for your way of live?  Which character do you identify with?


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## brudgers

kilitact said:
			
		

> And which of his works has so strongly influence and provided direction for your way of live?  Which character do you identify with?


    He didn't just talk the talk.    He walked the walk.

    Socrates.

  ****ed people off, too.


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## Papio Bldg Dept

brudgers said:
			
		

> You think this is some modern problem?   Read Plato.


That is why I have a food tester.


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## kilitact

brudgers said:
			
		

> He didn't just talk the talk.    He walked the walk.
> 
> Socrates.
> 
> ****ed people off, too.


So you belive that this litttle fellow should have already known what to do from prveious life experience.


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## Gregg Harris

Her is another one for the list

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/city-may-sue-developer-spent-20k-remove-40-200922350.html


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## Rider Rick

This country is going to h*ll.


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## brudgers

Given that he owns the adjacent lot and what he did probably adds well over $20,000 of value to it...this is just business not civic duty.

  Show of hands, how many people want their own property improved by a developer after they have said, "No."

  Bueller? Bueller?


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## jpranch

You have got to be kidding me!!!???


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## mtlogcabin

I want to know why the city said "No"

Here was a perfect oportunity for a "Joint Venture" that cost the city nothing. All the city needed was an insurance liability policy from the developer idemnifying the city in case something did happen.

The real reason is the city did not want he property cleaned up is it probably does not or can't afford to maintain the property under the improved conditions.


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## Francis Vineyard

The city has issued citations to Feibush for not removing snow from the lot’s sidewalk. Last month they cited him for trash on the lot, which, again, he does not own.

http://reason.com/blog/2012/09/18/philadelphia-threatening-legal-action-ag



Ori Feibush, the real-estate developer who cleaned the lot and whose coffee shop backs onto the now-controversial plot, said the authority is making a big deal about this because it doesn't like him or the properties he's developed in the neighborhood.

"They don't like nice things," he said. "For a private developer to create a garden, it's a question of who gets credit. To do it without their blessing, you're basically insulting them."

http://articles.philly.com/2012-09-14/news/33845122_1_point-breeze-private-developer-property

Bet now the government will do a thorough background for any dirt and see if he paid his taxes.

Francis


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## fatboy

in-friggren-credible.......he wouldn't get any pushback here if he wanted to improve neglected properties!


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## Papio Bldg Dept

Vigilantes typically see government as ineffective in enforcing the law; and such individuals often presume to justify their actions as fulfillment of the wishes of "the community".

Vigilantism at it's best in my opinion.


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## Papio Bldg Dept

for what it is worth, philadelphia has a long and sordid history going back to the planning department in the 1960's of intentionally leaving neighborhoods blighted so that they can re-assign, or through urban gentrification, re-define the demographics of a neighborhood.

Philadelphia: Darien Street

Gentrification Amid Urban Decline: Strategies for America's Older Cities, by Michael Lang, reports the process and impact (social, economic, cultural) of gentrification. In particular, we focus on the section of Darien Street (a north-south street running intermittently from South to North Philadelphia) which is essentially an alley in the populous Bella Vista neighborhood. That part of Darien Street was a "back street", because it does not connect to any of the city's main arteries and was unpaved for most of its existence.

In its early days, this area of Darien Street housed only Italian families, however, after the Second World War (1939–1945), when the municipal government spoke of building a cross-town highway, the families moved out. Most of the houses date from 1885 (built for the artisans and craftsmen who worked and lived in the area), but, when the Italian Americans moved out, the community's low-rent houses went to poor African American families. Moreover, by the early 1970s, blighted Darien Street was at its lowest point as a community, because the houses held little property value, many were abandoned, having broken heaters and collapsed roofs, et cetera.[60] Furthermore, the houses were very small — approximately 15 feet (4.6 m) wide and 15 feet (4.6 m) deep, each had three one-room stories (locally known, and still currently advertised as a "Trinity" style house,) and the largest yard was 8 feet (2.4 m) deep. Despite the decay, Darien Street remained charmed with European echoes, each house was architecturally different, contributing to the street's community character; children were safe, there was no car traffic. The closeness of the houses generated a closely knit community located just to the south of Center City, an inexpensive residential neighborhood a short distance from the city-life amenities of Philadelphia; the city government did not hesitate to rehabilitate it.

The gentrification began in 1977; the first house rehabilitated was a corner property that a school teacher re-modeled and occupied. The next years featured (mostly) white middle-class men moving into the abandoned houses; the first displacement of original Darien Street residents occurred in 1979. Two years later, five of seven families had been economically evicted with inflated housing prices; the two remaining families were renters, expecting eventual displacement. In five years, from 1977 to 1982, the gentrification of Darien Street reduced the original population from seven black households and one white household, to two black households and eleven white households. The average rent increased 488 per cent — from $85 to $500 a month; by 1981, a house bought for $5,000 sold for $35,000. Of the five black households displaced, three found better houses within two blocks of their original residence, one family left Pennsylvania, and one family moved into a public housing apartment building five blocks from Darien Street.[61] The benefits of the Darien Street gentrification included increased property tax revenues and better-quality housing. The principal detriment was residential displacement via higher priced housing.[62]


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## mmmarvel

brudgers said:
			
		

> There is no spoon.


No, now we have the spork - you know that mangled cross between a spoon and a fork.


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## mmmarvel

Back to the stupidity of schools.  Here is a principal in a school in Portland Oregon (so glad I'm not there anymore) who says having a peanut butter sandwich is racist.  Oh yeah, we got geniuses running our schools.

http://portlandtribune.com/pt-rss/9-news/114604-schools-beat-the-drum-for-equity


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## kilitact

It’s a difficult concept for some to grasp. I for one am glad this topic is at least being open for discussion within the school system and hope it spreads like wildfire.


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## fatboy

Sorry, sounds like a bunch of BS to me, last I heard this is still a free country, folks have the opportunities to make it or not. Is it harder for some, yeah sure it is, but the chance is there. Don't give me this "white pride and privilege" crap, last I checked, this is still the USA.


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## mtlogcabin

> “Another way would be to say: ‘Americans eat peanut butter and jelly, do you have anything like that?’ Let them tell you. Maybe they eat torta. Or pita.”


So now just being an "American" makes one racist



> Like many if not all of PPS’ leaders, Gutierrez has gone through California-based consultant Glenn Singleton’s “Coaching for Educational Equity,” a weeklong seminar on race and how it affects life; she’s also become an “affiliate,” certified to teach the equity curriculum; and she serves on the district’s administrative committee to address systematic racism, a group that meets every other week.


Maybe if she didn't waste taxpayer money on attending, purchasing and time implementing this nonsense the teachers could focus more on teaching reading, writing and math skills to the students.

Schools have become a failure in educating young people in basic reading, writing and math skills because they spend to much time on social and feel good programs.


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## fatboy

Bingo!!!!!!!!!

Give the man a prize!


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## kilitact

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> So now just being an "American" makes one racistMaybe if she didn't waste taxpayer money on attending, purchasing and time implementing this nonsense the teachers could focus more on teaching reading, writing and math skills to the students.
> 
> Schools have become a failure in educating young people in basic reading, writing and math skills because they spend to much time on social and feel good programs.


Once all students are treated has equals,  the people will have reached a level of understanding that will enabled the learning process to begin for everyone, not just the selected few.


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## brudgers

mmmarvel said:
			
		

> No, now we have the spork - you know that mangled cross between a spoon and a fork.


  I thought he was cross between a human and a vulcan.


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## georgia plans exam

From the article:

Chuck Barber, who also offers boys’ drum corps at Vernon and Faubion schools in Northeast Portland, approached Gutierrez last year to start up a lunch-time drum class for black and Latino boys once a week. This year, it’ll expand to two classes a week, to accommodate new boys as well as those with experience.

At least one parent has a problem with the the class, saying it amounts to “blatant discrimination and equity of women, Asians, whites and Native Americans.”

“This ‘club’ was approved by the administration, and any girls who complained were brushed off and it was not addressed,” the parent wrote anonymously.

Does this sound like "Once all students are treated as equals"?

What if my half-black 7 year old daughter wanted to join?

GPE


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## Papio Bldg Dept

georgia plans exam said:
			
		

> What if my half-black 7 year old daughter wanted to join?GPE


I think it is supposed to be a don't ask, don't tell policy.  They don't have to tell her no if she doesn't ask.


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## mtlogcabin

kilitact said:
			
		

> Once all students are treated has equals,  the people will have reached a level of understanding that will enabled the learning process to begin for everyone, not just the selected few.


A child needs to understand americans eat sandwiches and mexicans eat burritos and italians eat pasta. How did any of us ever make through school and graduate?

No that is what the principle bought into as to why her school has one of the lowest student achivement rates in the state. It gave her and her teachers an excuse for not doing there jobs.


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## Gregg Harris

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> A child needs to understand americans eat sandwiches and mexicans eat burritos and italians eat pasta. How did any of us ever make through school and graduate?No that is what the principle bought into as to why her school has one of the lowest student achivement rates in the state. It gave her and her teachers an excuse for not doing there jobs.


That was also my thought. If you cant teach create a diversion that allows you to justify your salary. I have put 6 kids through the public school system, and two through college, I now have a 4 year old that is being home  schooled.


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## mmmarvel

kilitact said:
			
		

> It’s a difficult concept for some to grasp. I for one am glad this topic is at least being open for discussion within the school system and hope it spreads like wildfire.


So I tried for a bit to figure if you were being humorous or not - my final take on it is that you're not, too bad.  The whole concept of 'white privledge' is an excuse looking for a problem.  Sorry, I don't buy it, never did and never will.  And as for the peanut butter thing.  When I read that, the first thing I thought was give the hispanic or somali kid a peanut butter sandwich, bet they love it.

See, I'm NOT hispanic, but I do love mexican food.  I'm not italian, but I love italian food.  No in a room full of kids in a public school they all have the same opportunity.  The books are there, the teacher is there, a hispanic kid (typically) does not get more or less homework or attention due to race than the white kid or the black kid.  However, like sports, we all run the 50 yard dash, but some of us are more gifted and can run it faster than others; likewise some kids have a smarter intellect (at least in some areas) than others and certain subjects are easier to those kids.  No, what we try to provide is an equal opportunity, what we can not assure is equal outcome.  We can make sure everyone lines up on the starting line, but as with the rest of life, some will get to the finish line faster than others will.

You do not get a trophy for participating in life.  You get what you earn in life, as it was and is intended.  This concept is not a problem, those who think it is a problem are part of the problem.


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## mmmarvel

High Desert said:
			
		

> Napkins. Those were the good old days. In fact, the 1997 UBC required plans to be drawn to scale on substantial paper or cloth.


Did a tablecloth work???  As long as it was drawn to scale???  Just asking - oh and here's your peanutbutter sandwich.


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## mmmarvel

kilitact said:
			
		

> Once all students are treated has equals,  the people will have reached a level of understanding that will enabled the learning process to begin for everyone, not just the selected few.


So what do we do about the inequalities???  John is taller than Sam, look out, that's inequal.  Sue can run faster than Sally, look out another inequality.  Billy has little difficulty with math, but Ann has a heck of a time multiplying 6X8 in her head, sounds like an inequality to me.

We ARE unequal, if we weren't we'd all be the same height, weight, hair and eye color and we don't want to get into gender.  We ARE individuals and rather than frowned upon it should be celebrated because we all bring our own unique talents to the game of life.

And WHO are the 'selected few' that you refer to?  Gee, whites are in public schools as are blacks, as are asians, as are hispanics, etc.  So just who are these select few and how is it that you know about them and the rest of us (of all colors) don't?  Yes, there are private schools, but again, you will typically find children of all spectrums of the rainbow (excluding purple) in those schools too.  Just because a parent makes enough money to send junior to a private school doesn't necessarily translate into an advantage.  2+2 equals 4 in the public school textbook just the same as it equals 4 in the private school textbook.

I don't need the school teaching my kid diversity, they learn that in life.  I don't need the school (public or private) teaching my kid that gay people are good, bad or indifferent; that is something between me and my child.  I DO need that the school teaches them to read, write and do math.  I do want the school to teach that this is the periodic chart, these are the elements, this is what happens when these things react with one another, not that evolution is the way life came to be (it's just a theory - lots of holes in it, my kid and I will explore what makes sense and what doesn't).

School, like government (and government certainly has a heavy hand in the schools so I understand the connection) suffer from mission creep.  Sports are great, kids do NEED physical exercise, but is it NECESSARY to build huge stadiums, outfit the kids in elaborate uniforms and elevate the sport?  The simple answer is no, you want to do it, you convince enough people to support it (rather than suck it out of me via taxes) then go for it.  As for the way we do things today, the school can be failing, the kid can be failing in school, but if he can do a down and out route, he's still playing in the friday night game - talk about getting your priorities mixed up.  Lastly, and I don't mean this as a slam, but I lived in Oregon for over 50 years, it is people like this principal and folks like you who support such a person who have changed how Oregon now is; I'm now proud to say I USE to live there, prouder now to say I am a Texan.


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## Gregg Harris

mmmarvel said:
			
		

> So what do we do about the inequalities???  John is taller than Sam, look out, that's inequal.  Sue can run faster than Sally, look out another inequality.  Billy has little difficulty with math, but Ann has a heck of a time multiplying 6X8 in her head, sounds like an inequality to me.We ARE unequal, if we weren't we'd all be the same height, weight, hair and eye color and we don't want to get into gender.  We ARE individuals and rather than frowned upon it should be celebrated because we all bring our own unique talents to the game of life.
> 
> And WHO are the 'selected few' that you refer to?  Gee, whites are in public schools as are blacks, as are asians, as are hispanics, etc.  So just who are these select few and how is it that you know about them and the rest of us (of all colors) don't?  Yes, there are private schools, but again, you will typically find children of all spectrums of the rainbow (excluding purple) in those schools too.  Just because a parent makes enough money to send junior to a private school doesn't necessarily translate into an advantage.  2+2 equals 4 in the public school textbook just the same as it equals 4 in the private school textbook.
> 
> I don't need the school teaching my kid diversity, they learn that in life.  I don't need the school (public or private) teaching my kid that gay people are good, bad or indifferent; that is something between me and my child.  I DO need that the school teaches them to read, write and do math.  I do want the school to teach that this is the periodic chart, these are the elements, this is what happens when these things react with one another, not that evolution is the way life came to be (it's just a theory - lots of holes in it, my kid and I will explore what makes sense and what doesn't).
> 
> School, like government (and government certainly has a heavy hand in the schools so I understand the connection) suffer from mission creep.  Sports are great, kids do NEED physical exercise, but is it NECESSARY to build huge stadiums, outfit the kids in elaborate uniforms and elevate the sport?  The simple answer is no, you want to do it, you convince enough people to support it (rather than suck it out of me via taxes) then go for it.  As for the way we do things today, the school can be failing, the kid can be failing in school, but if he can do a down and out route, he's still playing in the friday night game - talk about getting your priorities mixed up.  Lastly, and I don't mean this as a slam, but I lived in Oregon for over 50 years, it is people like this principal and folks like you who support such a person who have changed how Oregon now is; I'm now proud to say I USE to live there, prouder now to say I am a Texan.


I agree completely, well said.


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## kilitact

mmmarvel said:
			
		

> So I tried for a bit to figure if you were being humorous or not - my final take on it is that you're not, too bad.  The whole concept of 'white privledge' is an excuse looking for a problem.  Sorry, I don't buy it, never did and never will.  And as for the peanut butter thing.  When I read that, the first thing I thought was give the hispanic or somali kid a peanut butter sandwich, bet they love it.See, I'm NOT hispanic, but I do love mexican food.  I'm not italian, but I love italian food.  No in a room full of kids in a public school they all have the same opportunity.  The books are there, the teacher is there, a hispanic kid (typically) does not get more or less homework or attention due to race than the white kid or the black kid.  However, like sports, we all run the 50 yard dash, but some of us are more gifted and can run it faster than others; likewise some kids have a smarter intellect (at least in some areas) than others and certain subjects are easier to those kids.  No, what we try to provide is an equal opportunity, what we can not assure is equal outcome.  We can make sure everyone lines up on the starting line, but as with the rest of life, some will get to the finish line faster than others will.
> 
> You do not get a trophy for participating in life.  You get what you earn in life, as it was and is intended.  This concept is not a problem, those who think it is a problem are part of the problem.


No this was not meant to be humorous. And like I said it's a hard concept for some to grasp. Saying that there's not a problem is the problem.


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## fatboy

Hate to point out the elephant in the room, but you seem to be a minority of those who are "grasping".....just sayin.


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## kilitact

fatboy said:
			
		

> Hate to point out the elephant in the room, but you seem to be a minority of those who are "grasping".....just sayin.


Is that a problem for you? Or do you belive that one should follow the herd? I've been a minority all my life, which gives one a different point of view.


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## ICE

*Deleted*

By me because it didn't need to be said.

Well except for the part about the Mexican restaurant.

But even that was topic 'cause this ain't a food forum now is it.

And allow me this opportunity to apologize to the good people of Somalia.

We work with what we've got and in your case, that's not a lot.

So,

may your abductions be many,

and retrieve the last penny,

for each Mary and Bill,

you don't accidentally kill.


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## fatboy

"Is that a problem for you? Or do you belive that one should follow the  herd? I've been a minority all my life, which gives one a different  point of view."

NO, it isn't. And I don't follow the herd, on the contrary, I usually will be the stray. And, I could be considered a minority.....I'm short, left handed, a bit on the stocky side......where do we keep splitting hairs?


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## ICE

fatboy said:
			
		

> "Is that a problem for you? Or do you belive that one should follow the  herd? I've been a minority all my life, which gives one a different  point of view."NO, it isn't. And I don't follow the herd, on the contrary, I usually will be the stray. And, I could be considered a minority.....I'm short, left handed, a bit on the stocky side......where do we keep splitting hairs?


So you're not bald?


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## fatboy

Receding hair line............


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## kilitact

Perhaps the phrase "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal" means that all men would be short and bald or tall and blue eyed. Or that being a minority is being slow around people that are fast. Its a common misconception that Lincoln or King resolved the issue, or that having a president that is half and half means we have finally reach the level of equality that the phrase hints at. Splitting hairs, no just see it from a different perspective. A walk into Watts might help to enlighten.


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## ICE

kilitact said:
			
		

> A walk into Watts might help to enlighten.


Ya and you're gonna want to do that between the hours of 7:00AM and 10:00AM ..... preferably on a cold rainy day.


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## Rider Rick

When pigs fly.


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## mmmarvel

ICE said:
			
		

> Ya and you're gonna want to do that between the hours of 7:00AM and 10:00AM ..... preferably on a cold rainy day.


I'll do my walk the way we all do it in Texas, packing - Yeah, thou I walk through the valley of death I fear no evil, for I'm the meanest son-of-a-gun in the valley - and my Desert Eagle proves it.


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## Rider Rick

mmmarvel said:
			
		

> I'll do my walk the way we all do it in Texas, packing - Yeah, thou I walk through the valley of death I fear no evil, for I'm the meanest son-of-a-gun in the valley - and my Desert Eagle proves it.


The only thing is Watts is in California and the good guys can't be packing thats why Watts isn't in Texas.


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## kilitact

ICE said:
			
		

> Ya and you're gonna want to do that between the hours of 7:00AM and 10:00AM ..... preferably on a cold rainy day.


Like a person of color going to your OC burgs of Laguna and Newport, except there’s no 7:00am & 10:00 am window of safe passage.


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## mtlogcabin

kilitact said:
			
		

> Perhaps the phrase "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal" means that all men would be short and bald or tall and blue eyed.


You did not include the beginning

"We hold these Truths to be _self-evident_, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,

The self-evident portion is the key. It is a moral truth, we are all equal as designed by our Creator and our laws are striving to make that a reality. Unfortunately human prejudice for those that are different from us or whom we just don't like will always exist.

 As for the schools hiding behind a "racism" issue for their failures to educate all students is blame shifting and not owning up to what may be a needed change in the way they reach certain students. We are all individuals first and we learn at differant levels and ways, some by reading, others by hands on experience, and some can just listen and grasp a subject with ease. Yes an enthnic background may make it more difficult for some students to learn in an American public school system but it is not the schools obligation to lower its teaching methods/curriculum just to accomodate a few. Eventually those few will grow up and enter a work force that will conduct business as "American" and if they are not prepared for that reality then they will be left behind for the rest of their lifes.


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## beach

> Like a person of color going to your OC burgs of Laguna and Newport, except there’s no 7:00am & 10:00 am window of safe passage.


That sounds a little racist to me....... You may want to bring that up to the multicultural people that live there. Or stop watching "The housewives of Orange County" and actually go visit......


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## Rider Rick

beach said:
			
		

> That sounds a little racist to me....... You may want to bring that up to the multicultural people that live there. Or stop watching "The housewives of Orange County" and actually go visit......


Beach,

A tall white guy with blue eyes that isn't packing would be very lucky to make it out alive in Watts at any time of the day but a person of color is not going to have any problems in OC burgs of Laguna and Newport Beach and that's a fact.


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## beach

I must have misunderstood him then, because I completely agree with you


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## mmmarvel

Rider Rick said:
			
		

> The only thing is Watts is in California and the good guys can't be packing thats why Watts isn't in Texas.


Yes, I know Watts is in California, but the folks there (non-white) certainly pack.  Just saying in Texas we really don't put up with this nonsense.  We also don't buy into the 'white privilege' nonsense.  Just an excuse to waste time and waste money looking for a place to happen.  Instead of whining about the cards life dealt you ... deal with life.  As the months go by, I'm happier and happier that God saw fit to send me to Texas.


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## Gregg Harris

S.A.T. scores hit 40 year low

http://news.yahoo.com/sat-reading-scores-lowest-theyve-40-years-204658542.html


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## mmmarvel

Gregg Harris said:
			
		

> S.A.T. scores hit 40 year lowhttp://news.yahoo.com/sat-reading-scores-lowest-theyve-40-years-204658542.html


Damn, white privilege raises it's ugly head again ... wait it says scores declined in every racial group except asians.  Ahhh, it's asian privilege, I see now.  No, basically it's the educational system failing the majority of students regardless of race because they waste money and time on crap like 'white privilege'.


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## kilitact

beach said:
			
		

> I must have misunderstood him then, because I completely agree with you


No, you didn’t read that incorrectly, whether you understood or not is another matter. I’m not familiar with the T.V show that you watch, my information comes from being on site 10 years ago and being in contact with residences that have been there since the 50’s. Not being racist, just stating point of view from my experience.


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## Rider Rick

kilitact said:
			
		

> No, you didn’t read that incorrectly, whether you understood or not is another matter. I’m not familiar with the T.V show that you watch, my information comes from being on site 10 years ago and being in contact with residences that have been there since the 50’s. Not being racist, just stating point of view from my experience.


Are you treated any different in Oregon?


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## beach

> No, you didn’t read that incorrectly, whether you understood or not is another matter. I’m not familiar with the T.V show that you watch, my information comes from being on site 10 years ago and being in contact with residences that have been there since the 50’s. Not being racist, just stating point of view from my experience.


I was born in Newport Beach, grew up there, and live there........ starting in '59.....


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## Rider Rick

Beach,

You are so SO Cal.

Nice Huh?


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## beach

Rider Rick said:
			
		

> Beach,You are so SO Cal.
> 
> Nice Huh?


Totally awesome, dude!!!


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## Francis Vineyard

Deleted testy subject; sad but true.

Francis


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## Francis Vineyard

News Report: Does this mean the end of Halloween as we know it?



For Christian Critzer, a Christmas tree farmer who lives with his wife and two children in Waynesboro, the Christmas tree donation drive was his way of paying it forward: a way to show his gratitude for his wife having recently won a battle with breast cancer and inspire hope in those still fighting their own battles and dealing with the aftermath of cancer.

Using what he knows best—Christmas trees—Critzer focused his efforts on raising money for the “Fight Like a Girl” campaign at the Charlottesville, Va.-based Martha Jefferson hospital, a fund for cancer survivors to buy custom wigs as they recover from their long battles with cancer and chemotherapy. The donations are specifically intended to subsidize the purchase of people buying custom wigs while dealing with cancer treatment. As Critzer learned through his wife’s own battle with cancer from this time last year, wigs—often a necessity for women who’ve lost their hair because of chemotherapy treatments—aren’t covered by insurance.

Using his front yard on a busy street as the staging ground, Critzer attempted to first sell the trees, with the hopes of giving the proceeds to the cancer fund. That all changed when Waynesboro zoning officials threatened Critzer with a citation for operating a commercial enterprise in a residentially zoned area. Determined to do his good deed, Critzer decided to give the trees away, asking a donation in return. “People are hurting,” said Critzer. “A free tree is a blessing. So we decided we’ll offer them for free. If people can afford a donation, that’s what we’ll give to the cancer center, and problem solved.” Unfortunately for the Christmas tree farmer, Waynesboro zoning officials didn’t agree and cited him for violating the city’s zoning ordinances.

The Critzers live on Rosser Avenue, one of the busiest roads in Waynesboro, adjacent to big box stores like Wal-Mart and Martins. According to Critzer, the big Martins sign shines its light through his window 24 hours a day, so it’s not as if his Christmas tree drive is bringing an unusual amount of traffic to the area. Nor does his little “tree lot” seem to be overly distracting. Around this time of year, lots of people tend to go all out, decking their houses and populating their front lawns with so many lights, holiday figurines and blow-ups as to start their own Christmas spectacular. In comparison, Critzer’s front lawn is almost stark, with little more than a string of lights, a small assortment of Christmas trees and a simple sign encouraging donations in exchange for the trees.

Despite Critzer’s various attempts to find a solution that would allow him to keep the tree drive going, Waynesboro officials were adamant that he should shut it down, going so far as to threaten his landlord with fines and issuing a cease and desist order against Critzer. Not wanting to cause his landlord hardship, and not wanting to be a burden to his wife and two children, Christian took down the trees, the lights and the signs. His goal of raising $1000 for the cancer fund remains unrealized and his hopes of paying it forward have been dashed. At least for this year, unless The Rutherford Institute, which has come to Critzer’s defense, can work their own Christmas miracle. Either way and to his credit, Critzer insists that next year, he’ll be back with 100 Christmas trees.

So what’s the lesson to be learned here? Is it that no good deed goes unpunished? Certainly, in an age of bureaucracy and over criminalization, it can seem that way. Is the problem, as Critzer suggests that the government needs to revisit its priorities and focus on solving the real problems plaguing communities rather than creating problems where there are none? There’s definitely something to be said for that. “There’s a lot going on in this town that needs attention,” said Critzer. “I don’t think it’s my cancer charity.”

Paying It Forward at Christmas and Always, One Act of Kindness at a Time 



Francis


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## cda

Should have got a garage sale permit!!!!


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## ICE

Should have been selling something other than Christmas trees.


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## Francis Vineyard

I could see this happening . . .

*A guy stopped at a local gas station* & after filling his tank, he paid the bill and bought a soft drink. He stood by his car to drink his cola and watched a couple of men working along the roadside. 

One man would dig a hole two or three feet deep and then move on. 

The other man came along behind him and filled in the hole. While one was digging a new hole, the other was 25 feet behind filling in the hole. 

The men worked right past the guy with the soft drink and went on down the road. "I can't stand this," said the man tossing the can into a trash container and heading down the road toward the men. 

"Hold it, hold it," he said to the men. "Can you tell me what's going on here with all this digging and refilling?" 

"Well, we work for the government and we're just doing our job," one of the men said. "But one of you is digging a hole and the other fills it up. You're not accomplishing anything. Aren't you wasting the taxpayers' money?" 

"You don't understand, mister," one of the men said, leaning on his shovel and wiping his brow. "Normally there's three of us: me, Elmer and Leroy. I dig the hole, Elmer sticks in the tree, and Leroy here puts the dirt back. 

Elmer's job's been cut... so now it's just me an' Leroy.

Francis


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## mtlogcabin

The story about Dani the deer, the Connersville couple that saved her and the state agency prosecuting them for illegally keeping the deer spurred plenty of chatter.

News websites across the country and overseas played the story prominently Tuesday, leaving volumes of online commentary in its wake.

Jennifer and Jeff Counceller, the couple at the center of the controversy, made an appearance on ABC’s “Good Morning America,” where host George Stephanopoulos’ comment was that this was a story “guaranteed to make you mad.”

And a Facebook page devoted to the saga found roughly 20,000 likes after four days online and comments of support from every state and from countries around the world.

Yet despite the buzz surrounding Dani the deer and the Councellers, there was one corner of the world with almost nothing to say on the subject — anyone in an official position to influence the situation.

The Indiana Department of Natural Resources, which issued a news release in December about the ?arrest of a man who killed a wild turkey out of season, still had no comment Tuesday about this case.

 Legislators who oversee the DNR had nothing to say. A voicemail left in the office of the prosecutor handling the case  drew no response. And the place where the buck stops in state government, the office of Gov. Mike Pence, didn’t respond to a request for comment.

The Councellers — Jeff is a cop, Jennifer is a nurse — face a March trial date on a charge of illegal possession of a deer, a misdemeanor that could mean 60 days in jail and fines of $500 each.

The DNR brought the misdemeanor charges against the Councellers. Its incident report recounts a story similar to what the Councellers have shared.

In 2010, Jeff found the deer on a police call.  The animal appeared to have been attacked by a coyote. His wife, who had experience tending their horses and dogs, applied her skills to the deer. The fawn healed but grew slowly as the Councellers kept it in their care, in a pen, for nearly two years.

The couple said they intended to set the animal free last fall. But the DNR discovered it in their possession in June and ordered it killed. The DNR’s report says it was a matter of “safety,” without elaborating, but the DNR website says deer can have parasites and diseases that can be passed to humans. The agency has a history, too, of trying to keep “wild populations wild.”

On its execution day, the deer turned up missing. The Councellers say they don’t know how but admit that Dani had lots of friends.

The Councellers said they didn’t know that keeping the deer was illegal, and they never tried to hide what they were doing. They say they even sought alternative placement for Dani in animal rescue facilities and petting zoos, without success.

Today, they don’t dispute that they broke the law, but  they say their mistakes were not willful and their good intentions should count for something. “We could not walk away,” Jeff Counceller said. “Maybe that’s where we went wrong, but we couldn’t walk away.”

An online petition seeking to have the charges dropped had more than 16,000 signatures Tuesday night. An online legal defense fund had garnered more than $1,000 in donations.

Beyond that, comments on Facebook, media websites, calls and emails to the Star, the reaction follows two main paths:  understanding of the position the Councellers found themselves in when faced with a suffering animal, and outrage that a government agency doesn’t have better things to do with its time.

“I find the actions of the DNR in this case outrageous and nonsensical,” wrote Suzanne Murray of Carmel.

“This is just beyond the point of crazy,” said Barbara Wilson, 77, of Mooresville, who called the Star after calling both the DNR and the governor’s office.

The DNR arrested 257 people for illegal possession of a deer last year, a charge frequently applied to poachers. It’s safe to say none of those cases created a buzz the way this one has.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20130129/NEWS/301290318/Couple-charged-crime-compassion?nclick_check=1


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