# History buffs



## cda (Aug 19, 2010)

Was visiting a museum today and it had a clean agent system in one room

Unknown type agenttwo nozzles in the room

About 15x 40 room

What I have not seen before is the use of a sprinkler head next to each clean agent nozzle

My guess pilot heads. There was no other detection device seen and the room did not have any other sprinkler heads in the room

To me the room would have to have a good size fire before the clean agent dumped unless the fire was near the head


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## mark handler (Aug 19, 2010)

Ihe clean agent system activation is probably not head activated, but by a seperate heat detector or by manual activation.


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## FM William Burns (Aug 19, 2010)

Not necessarily, since the 2001 system is considered a total flooding system similar to a water based deluge. The use of pilot heads as detection is acceptable provided it’s listed. The operation of the pilot system is most likely a “dry” pneumatic where a differential is created whereas the sprinkler bulb’s degree setting when fused will release a small amount of air releasing the valve discharging the agent through the two nozzles. These can be as reliable if not more than cross sectional spot heat or smoke detection for environments such as these.

See 4.3.3.2 and 4.3.4.2


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## cda (Aug 19, 2010)

No other detection devices seen

I just question only two heads in such a large room

And the heads were against one wall


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## FM William Burns (Aug 20, 2010)

Thought you were talking about (2) CA nozzles.  I would have to question only two pilot heads also for that square footage since in deluge detection the pilot heads are typically on a parallel line with heads next to the open deluge heads. I don't believe the glass bulb has coverage area like RoR or Ft heat detectors.


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## cda (Aug 21, 2010)

FM

That was my thoughts

It was amo picture taking museum or I would have some shots to post


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## Dr. J (Aug 23, 2010)

Perhaps an Air Sampling Detection (VESDA) system is triggering the system.  These can be well concealed.  In a high-value room, one would typically want very early products of combustion detection prior to temperatures getting high enough for heat detection.

EC sidewall sprinkler heads might have that kind of coverage, but these are to provide the "fully sprinklered" coverage.  CA is typically seen as suplemental.


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## cda (Aug 23, 2010)

None seen just two totally separate sprinkler heads right next to the two clean agent nozzles


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## Frank (Aug 26, 2010)

15x40  room could be covered by two extended coverage sprinkler heads that protect the rest of the building, if the clean agent system fails.  In most cases the provision of clean agent system does not eliminate the need for sprinklers.  Did the heads seem to have a little larger than normal deflectors?


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## cda (Aug 26, 2010)

Normal size deflectors

No other detection seen in the room

And these two head were against one wall way out of coverage for sprinklers

I am pretty sure they were pilots for the ca just never seen them used on a ca before and seems like you would have a good fire before they activated


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## Dr. J (Aug 26, 2010)

> seems like you would have a good fire before they activated


That defeats the purpose of a CA system.  Might as well spew water all over the place if the ceiling is already 165 deg.  There must have been a well concealed "sniffer" detection system.

What did they have for HVAC devices?  Might have integrated detection into the HVAC.


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## FM William Burns (Aug 26, 2010)

Ok Cda.....go back and take some "covert" pictures     I need to know why (the depiction) seems to be a poorly designed protection scheme for this particular area.  I could understand what Dr. J suggests with the potentials in air sampling or VESDA detection but I would not suspect heads located against a wall to be EC unless they were side walls and 40' is a strech for horizontal application with just two heads (depending on the model/listing).


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## cda (Aug 26, 2010)

I knew I should have taken a chance and digitaled some pictures

Will not be back there for about a year

But if anyone happens to hit San Diego check out :

https://www.sandiegohistory.org/

And look where the gowns are displayed


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## FM William Burns (Aug 26, 2010)

Field Trip for Beach!

We'll have to get *Beach* to go on a field trip when he's out fishing


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## Frank (Aug 27, 2010)

We have seen a fair number of Light hazard installations with 20x20 spacing on pendant heads


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## FM William Burns (Aug 27, 2010)

Totally understand that Frank but I question the potential P-EC heads against the horizontal wall.


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## cda (Aug 27, 2010)

Still do not believe the room had a fire sprinkler system in it


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