# LVT product for wall covering...?



## indyarchyguy (Feb 21, 2017)

I have a client who is demanding the use of LVT product on a wall surface. The product has NOT been tested for smoke/flame for wall finish product per 803.1.1. The interior designer is indicating they only intend to use a "small" amount and insists there is a threshold percentage for walls...(ID has done this before). I am reviewing Chapter 8 of the 2012 IBC and do not see a place where it provides for a limited amount. The building is II-B construction, fully sprinklered, and this area is an A-2 occupancy type. Thoughts and suggestions much appreciated.


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 21, 2017)

What is it made of?


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## cda (Feb 21, 2017)

How thick is it

How do they intend to apply or have it stay on the wall


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## cda (Feb 21, 2017)

Has anyone asked the ahj if they would approve it???


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## TheCommish (Feb 21, 2017)

What is LVT, please and thank you


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## fatboy (Feb 21, 2017)

I would guess laminate-vinyl-tile...........survey says?

I see nothing in Section 803 that exempts "small amounts", it either meets the tests,  or it doesn't. 

Have them take it the AHJ Appeals Board, see if it flies............

JMHO


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## cda (Feb 21, 2017)

I was going for::::

*803.2 Thickness exemption. *
Materials having a thickness less than 0.036 inch (0.9 mm) applied directly to the surface of walls or ceilings shall not be required to be tested.


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## RLGA (Feb 22, 2017)

LVT is luxury vinyl tile, and is definitely thicker than 0.036 inch. Section 806 allows decorative materials and trim in limited applications, but either require compliance with NFPA 701 for fabric materials (not applicable in this case) or ASTM E 84/UL 723 with a Class C rating. LVT materials that I have specified have never been tested per ASTM E 84 because this type of flooring does not require it. Therefore, the material would not comply with the requirements for a wall application or as trim/decoration.


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## indyarchyguy (Feb 22, 2017)

cda said:


> I was going for::::
> 
> *803.2 Thickness exemption. *
> Materials having a thickness less than 0.036 inch (0.9 mm) applied directly to the surface of walls or ceilings shall not be required to be tested.



Yes  I saw that as well. LVT is Luxury Vinyl Tile. Made by fairly high-quality companies such as Shaw, Miliken, etc. The product comes in a variety of sizes and is typically 2.5-3mm in thickness. The product they are looking at using is 2.5mm (0.098 in).


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## indyarchyguy (Feb 22, 2017)

RLGA said:


> LVT is luxury vinyl tile, and is definitely thicker than 0.036 inch. Section 806 allows decorative materials and trim in limited applications, but either require compliance with NFPA 701 for fabric materials (not applicable in this case) or ASTM E 84/UL 723 with a Class C rating. LVT materials that I have specified have never been tested per ASTM E 84 because this type of flooring does not require it. Therefore, the material would not comply with the requirements for a wall application or as trim/decoration.



Ron,

Thank you. That was my opinion as well. However I was getting that they insisted they've done this before...per code, so after doing my search I wondered if I was missing something. The products they are wanting to consider were not tested in accordance with ASTM E 84 and certainly has never been tested in a wall application. You have fortified my stance.


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## indyarchyguy (Feb 22, 2017)

TheCommish said:


> What is LVT, please and thank you



It is Luxury Vinyl Tile made by some higher end manufacturers. It comes in a variety of sizes depending on the manufacturer.


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## steveray (Feb 22, 2017)

If all of the code enforcers here had a dollar for every time they have heard "we have done this before with no problems"...We would all be discussing this from our own private islands...


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## indyarchyguy (Feb 22, 2017)

cda said:


> How thick is it
> 
> How do they intend to apply or have it stay on the wall



It would be fully adhered similar to the same adhesive (if not exactly the same) that they use to apply it to the floor. However, some of the manufacturers have gone to making a product that only requires the perimeter tiles to be adhered and the field tiles to be left loose.


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## ADAguy (Feb 22, 2017)

Have you checked with your FM? Bet they want to see label & or tests.
Have the manufacturer provide a test sheet, what of env. consequences?


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## CityKin (Feb 22, 2017)

806.5 allows Class C material up to 10% of the wall or ceiling.  Usually this is wood trim, right?


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## ADAguy (Feb 22, 2017)

And what class would this material be?


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## RLGA (Feb 22, 2017)

ADAguy said:


> And what class would this material be?


That's the problem, LVT is not tested per ASTM E 84/UL 723.


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## cda (Feb 22, 2017)

Another possibility is if the building or fire dept would do a field test 
To see if it burns
If it does burn how rapidly and any dripping flame 
See if they would accept it if it does not burn or continue to burn


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## JCraver (Feb 23, 2017)

fatboy said:


> Have them take it the AHJ Appeals Board, see if it flies............
> 
> JMHO





This is their only option, if they want to push it.  I doubt the BO is going to accept it, and the only way to "beat" him is the Board of Appeals.


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## linnrg (Feb 23, 2017)

without looking up all of the details of ASTM E 84/UL 723 (that book has somehow went missing from this office) are those tests limited to walls and ceilings and not floors
Since this is typically a floor material I looked one up by Armstrong and found: but no mention of E84 could these tests be similar but rated to floors
*FIRE TEST DATA: *
ASTM E 648 Critical Radiant Flux- 0.45 watts/sq. cm. or more - Class I
ASTM E 662 Smoke- 450 or less


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## cda (Feb 23, 2017)

84 is the tunnel test, material oriented horizontally 


E 648 is a floor covering test,, material tested  in horizontal orientation 


E 662 is basically how much smoke a material will generate


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## RLGA (Feb 23, 2017)

The ASTM E 84 test uses a tunnel-type furnace to conduct tests for determining flame spread index (FSI) and smoke-developed index (SDI). The SDI is determined using a photocell in a horizontal section of the exhaust vent, which measures SDI based on light intensity (more smoke, less intensity by blocking light). The ASTM E 662 test method only determines SDI and uses a different type of test chamber that employs a photomultiplier. A photomultiplier is slightly different than a photocell, but does essentially the same thing. There is nothing to show how the two methods compare. Flooring manufacturers may lean toward the E 662 method, since they do not want to pay for the more expensive E 84 test and obtain an unnecessary FSI.

The ASTM E 648 is nothing like the ASTM E 84 test in regard to measuring FSI, but could provide some insight on how a material may perform in the E 84 test. Whereas a test specimen is only burned in the E 84 test by direct flame contact, the E 648 places pilot flame below a radiant panel that is angled toward the specimen. The heat from the flame is radiated toward the specimen. After 5 min., the flame is then brought into contact with the specimen for another 5 min. and flame propagation is observed. The problem with comparing E 648 to E 84 is that the E 648 test method does not measure performance of a material in a vertical application. Although the E 84 test method is also horizontal, it uses the flow of air to try to drive the flame along the surface of the specimen (much like flames climbing a wall surface by rising heat); the E 648 does not attempt to force the flames down the length of the specimen.


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## cda (Feb 23, 2017)

The 705 test procedure, in a nutshell, is:
1) Remove a suitable sample of the material to be tested, 1/2” X 4” or greater.
2) In a safe location with no draft, expose the sample to a flame from a common kitchen match, or other similar source, for 12 seconds.
3) Remove the flame. The sample should self extinguish within 2 seconds, less than 4” of sample should have been consumed, and drippy fireballs, if any, should self extinguish upon or before contact with the ground.


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## RLGA (Feb 23, 2017)

cda said:


> The 705 test procedure, in a nutshell, is:
> 1) Remove a suitable sample of the material to be tested, 1/2” X 4” or greater.
> 2) In a safe location with no draft, expose the sample to a flame from a common kitchen match, or other similar source, for 12 seconds.
> 3) Remove the flame. The sample should self extinguish within 2 seconds, less than 4” of sample should have been consumed, and drippy fireballs, if any, should self extinguish upon or before contact with the ground.


Did you mean the NFPA 701 test?


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## cda (Feb 23, 2017)

I Just like to burn things, whichever NFPA that falls under


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## ADAguy (Feb 24, 2017)

Floors do not typically have air space below them, most walls are typically hollow, possibly allowing for air flow.


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