# Fire sprinkler what if



## cda (Apr 29, 2011)

What if you had an existing building retrofit and found say a 30 foot long wall with 2x4 wood studs extending four feet above the drop ceiling

One side is sheet Rocked other side is exposed

Say could not Sheetrock the exposed

And this condition is found in other parts of the building

About 60000 sq ft building

But not through out

1 would you let it go with no sprinklers

2 sprinkle the entire above ceiling area

3 sprinkle above ceiling just to cover the combustible wood

4 other?????


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## Coug Dad (Apr 29, 2011)

rock the other side?


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## FredK (Apr 29, 2011)

Shudder and walk out.

But then why does anything have to be done?  Did it meet any existing code at the time it was built? Built withou permits?


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## cda (Apr 29, 2011)

Coug

Say you could not sheet rock

Fred this is an existing building that has been added on a few times and remodeled in areas a few times

So maybe the answer is yes and no

Just trying to get it sprinkled and close to 13 as possible


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## FM William Burns (Apr 29, 2011)

Option I - Finish exposed sides and areas in compliance with the adopted code

Option II - Sprinkle concealed combustibles


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## cda (Apr 29, 2011)

Fm

What if one wal out of say 100 by 100 room had the exposed wood

Remembering retro fit and difficult one at that

If could not sheet rock ,,,  require the entire area above the drop ceiling to be sprinkled because of one wall with four feet high by one hundred of exposed wood


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## FredK (Apr 29, 2011)

What' the building use and number of occupants, etc....

Just trying to get a feel for if this is a to fall on the sword issue or wish that this/that should be done.


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## cda (Apr 29, 2011)

Fred

2/3 worship 1/3 Office


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## TJacobs (Apr 30, 2011)

I'd use this as a training moment for my staff...


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## cda (Apr 30, 2011)

Training ::: done

Just looking out to see if someone has done some creative / prescriptive in some what similar instances

Maybe not sprinkle an entire area when combustibles are concentrated in area and not throughout

Remembering this is a hard retro to begin with


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## FM William Burns (Apr 30, 2011)

If the structure is sprinkled you may need to require the owner to explore an alternative design method of sprinkler protection for the hazard in liue of having to sprinkle the entire space above the ceiling?

Are there cross mains in the ceiling area near the exposed combustibles?

Is the wall above the ceiling where the exposed combustibles accessible?

Is the ceiling a hard lid or tiles?


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## cda (Apr 30, 2011)

FM William Burns said:
			
		

> If the structure is sprinkled you may need to require the owner to explore an alternative design method of sprinkler protection for the hazard in liue of having to sprinkle the entire space above the ceiling?Are there cross mains in the ceiling area near the exposed combustibles
> 
> There will be
> 
> ...


Right now we are seeing lay in ceiling but may run into some hard ceiling


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## FM William Burns (May 1, 2011)

Appears to be new sprinkled construction if I read what you're saying correctly.  If correct, then the BO or reviewer(s) should note that the area above the ceiling must/shall be non-comb in accordance with 13 or take measures in accordance with same to make it limited or non-comb as permitted for combustible concealed spaces for non-sprinkled or you shold see sprinklers up there.


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## cda (May 1, 2011)

Very existing building

Retro fit which is a Problem on itself

Know sprinklers need to be above the drop ceiling

Just see if anyone ever maybe put a line just to protect the combustible area only and not sprinkle the entire area, above the drop ceiling


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## cda (May 2, 2011)

does:::::::::: get me where  I am trying to go???

nfpa 13 2002 edition

8.14.1.5 Localized Protection of Exposed Combustible Construction or Exposed Combustibles. In concealed spaces having exposed combustible construction, or containing exposed combustibles, in localized areas, the combustibles shall be protected as follows:

(1) 	If the exposed combustibles are in the vertical partitions or walls around all or a portion of the enclosure, a single row of sprinklers spaced not over 12 ft (3.7 m) apart nor more than 6 ft (1.8 m) from the inside of the partition shall be permitted to protect the surface. The first and last sprinklers in such a row shall not be over 5 ft (1.5 m) from the ends of the partitions.

(2) 	If the exposed combustibles are in the horizontal plane, the area of the combustibles shall be permitted to be protected with sprinklers on a light hazard spacing. Additional sprinklers shall be installed no more than 6 ft (1.8 m) outside the outline of the area and not more than 12 ft (3.7 m) on center along the outline. When the outline returns to a wall or other obstruction, the last sprinkler shall not be more than 6 ft (1.8 m) from the wall or obstruction.

same as in 2010:::

8.15.1.5 Localized Protection of Exposed Combustible Construction or Exposed Combustibles.   When otherwise noncombustible or limited-combustible concealed spaces that would not require sprinkler protection have localized exposed combustible construction, or contain localized areas of exposed combustibles, the combustibles shall be permitted to be protected as follows:

(1)If the exposed combustibles are in the vertical partitions or walls around all or a portion of the enclosure, a single row of sprinklers spaced not over 12 ft (3.7 m) apart nor more than 6 ft (1.8 m) from the inside of the partition shall be permitted to protect the surface. The first and last sprinklers in such a row shall not be over 5 ft (1.5 m) from the ends of the partitions.

(2)If the exposed combustibles are in the horizontal plane, the area of the combustibles shall be permitted to be protected with sprinklers on a light hazard spacing. Additional sprinklers shall be installed no more than 6 ft (1.8 m) outside the outline of the area and not more than 12 ft (3.7 m) on center along the outline. When the outline returns to a wall or other obstruction, the last sprinkler shall not be more than 6 ft (1.8 m) from the wall or obstruction.


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## FM William Burns (May 2, 2011)

Yep............


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## cda (May 2, 2011)

Ever seen it used????


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## FM William Burns (May 2, 2011)

Yes, that's why I was leading with the "alternative method" and "crossmains" thing below/above. I couldn't remember where in 13 it was at and didn't have access at time. I have seen it only twice though....sort of reminded me of glass protection for Atrium walkways.

You'de think the owner would just take part of the ceiling down and get a sizzor lift and start slingin mud and rock....oh well to each their own.


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## cda (May 2, 2011)

was looking for alternative if it was easier to put a few heads up there, since the pipe would be there anyway

and trying not to tell them to sprinkle a mostly noncombustible area above the drop cieiling

along with some other sensitive issues invovled

thanks


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## FM William Burns (May 2, 2011)

Sorry for the one sided discussion of late; I thought more would inquire also.

Be safe!


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## Builder Bob (May 3, 2011)

Seems like installing rock wool or rocking the other side would be easier..... just saying....


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