# Arrived in Denver - BB discussion with ICC



## vegas paul

I arrived in Denver last night and met informally with all the folks who are going to try and hash out the old/new ICC bulletin board problems. The usual suspects were there:

Peach, Mule, Tjacobs, JPRanch, Daddy-O, Fatboy, Enginerd, and many others (and me, Vegas Paul).

What was most interesting so far is that only 2 ICC folks (that I could tell) were here. Additionally, there were 3 folks from a web-design firm who has been contracted by ICC to run/fix their website. They were NOT the design firm that changed it initially when the BB went south. It's also interesting that although no ICC personnel admit to being terribly aware of Jeff's BB (believe me, they are), the web-design staff readily said that they read Jeff's BB frequently. That's a good sign, in my opinion.

I believe (but cannot substantiate) that the web-design firm is paying for this event, including travel and accomodations reimbursement.

Anyway, no real info of substance to report yet, we just had some good conversation, hors doerves (sp?), and adult beverages, courtesy of our hosts. I really enjoyed putting a few more names to faces with those I feel I have gotten to know on Jeff's BB and the old ICC BB.

More to follow as we get into some of the meat today. I don't think there any shy people from the forum here, so it should be interesting.


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## cda

Good to hear the pre-meeting went well


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## fatboy

I agree with with VP's uptake on the evening. There wee a couple others there that i didn't ever figure out their purpose/background. This a.m. start with intro's so hopefully we will find out more. We will keep you posted, and yes there is strong representation there from this forum/the old forum.

To add to VP's list, code neophite is also here, and I'm sure we are still missing some.


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## mmmarvel

Vegas Paul -

The proper way to say the words, according to Fred Sanford, is Horse Divers.  Can't argue with an authority like Fred Sanford (old comedy Sanford and Son, for those of you who remember).


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## texasbo

vegas paul said:
			
		

> Additionally, there were 3 folks from a web-design firm who has been contracted by ICC to run/fix their website.


It takes a web-design firm to provide a link to this website from the ICC website?


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## cda

Texasbo

Link:  no problem

How to collect money before link connects :: Problem


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## packsaddle

Having owned three businesses, I can confidently say that anybody that contracts with ICC for compensation at this point is taking a huge financial risk.

Hope they have a solid legal contract in place.


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## fatboy

Well, from my viewpoint we had a very good meeting with ICC and the Web folks today. Did intro's talked about what we wanted, didn't want to see in a new forum platform. After lunch they showed us a demo of a prototype and got more feedback from us. Looked real good for a proto, they are going to take our suggestions and see about how to integrate tham into a new forum. We will have an opprtunity to actually play with it before it launches, which they  hope to do by early next year. Everyone is pretty optimistic that this is the real deal, and they will launch a decent forum. But, all us us told them, that we would come back, and we weren't abandoning this site by any means, but there are some that will never come back to a ICC forum.


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## cda

And the cost to use the new and improved version? ????


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## FM William Burns

Not to be a "Debbi Downer" but the "prototype" is their way of showing you all what it is and the design firms getting free/Denver junkit consultation. I hope ICC at least gives you a year's free membership or code books of choice for your Beta testing

Represent!


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## Uncle Bob

I had a family emergency and had to cancel going to Denver. I am glad that Fatboy could take my place.

I was wondering; who from ICC was at the meeting?

The web design company can accomodate/add any Bulletin Board format to the website *(they do not design bulletin boards);* so anything else they do to the site is not in question for me. All they have to do is put a link to the Bulletin Board *on the home page*. It is the Bulletin Board that the meeting is suppose to address.

The web design company will do whatever the ICC tells them to do; so, to me they are not an integral part of the meeting. What is the intent of the ICC conserning the Bulletin Board?

It should not be difficult for the ICC Staff to answer the following questions;

1. Will the old BB be put back?

2. If not; will the new BB have an "OFF TOPIC" section; where we can discuss whatever we want?

3. Will the moderators be limited to controling foul/abusive language and personal attacks?

4. Or, will the moderators have the authority to block, delete, and close threads and posts; that they personally do not want posted?

4 (a) or feel are not in the ICC's interest?

5. Will the Bulletin Board be "FREE AND OPEN" TO EVERYONE; without membership requirements.

These questions can only be answered by the ICC staff (not the web designers).

If these questions are not addressed by the ICC staff; then I don't see any point to the meeting.

They had a lot more time to plan and decide what their intentions are, and, what they were willing to do; than we did; before calling this meeting.

It's about the Bulletin Board; not the overall website,

Uncle Bob


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## fatboy

UB, happy to hear from, hope all is OK. You were missed, all the forum folks were asking about you.

CDA and UB's Q#5........yes free and open to all. There will be "members only" section, but it will be a small part that will really only have benefits that members deserve, the heart of the forum is free and open.

RJJ and UB, the web folks actually ran most of the meeting and appear to have pretty free run of the development, but we'll see.

UB, Michael Armstrong, Sanjey Gupta and a one more, can't remember his name were there from ICC, pretty much the lead team for the website development, and the fourum development.  Armstrong actually made a very sincere "mia culpa" on ICC's part for the mishandling of the website/forum debacle. Wasn't just me that felt it was sincere, everyone I talked to thought it was sincere.

The "old" BB won't be back, but it will feel very close, and very close to this forum. Yes, there will be an "off topic" section that we will have access to, they even showed a "humor" button.

The Mod's job will be the same as it was in the old forum, dealing with the extreme issues only.

As I said, this isn't only my opinion, we all had time to chat during breaks and lunch, and I could find nobody that didn't think this was on the up-and-up. But, as we all said, and are saying, proof is in the pudding. We'll see it when they roll out the "paper" version for our thumbs up, and when the roll out the "beta" for testing. The next step is a "soft" lauch,where more members will be asked to test, (I was thinking this entire forum should be included in that), then the hard launch.

Will try and post a recap after tomorrows meeting, after it wraps up, see how we all feel about it then.


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## RickAstoria

I'll be willing to beta test the forum/site. I think a month or so or more would be needed in beta to work out any technical quirks. Then we can have more. Moderation should be level headed, soft-handed and were appropriate, move, close or delete posts / threads as necessary.

Deleting posts and threads should be done when there are spammers or when it is out of hand. But basically, relaxed.

The way it was handled on the old BB was reasonable. How it is handled here too is reasonable so they should look to that basis.


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## Uncle Bob

Fatboy,

Thanks for the update. Ya'll are doing a great job. Please give my regards to all the gang. Family is doing ok.

I believe we are well represented in Denver.

Thanks,

Uncle Bob


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## vegas paul

I missed you, UB... I was looking forward to seeing you.  Hope all is going well.

I was very cynical about this meeting, and came away very impressed.  Not just with the prototype product, but with the attitude and demeanor of the ICC and web-design staff.  It was made VERY clear by Mr. Armstrong that they had goofed, they were very apologetic, and were asking for our forgiveness and patience, and assistance.

This will be a free BB, open to all, and the member's section isn't just for members!  It is merely a section of the BB that can be used to discuss member issues, benefits, etc.  Basically, just another topic area for member-related issues, but anyone can participate.

Bottom line... We'll see!  Ane we'll probably use this BB for as long as Jeff keeps it alive.  I can see both being active and used by all of us for a long time.


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## TimNY

I don't understand why there is a prototype.  Install vBulletin and be done with it (unless the prototype is vBulletin).  Web companies love to reinvent the wheel because they get paid to craft the wheel and continue to get paid to fix it every time it gets a flat tire.  vB is tried, true, and solid.

They can design whatever pretty graphics they want for it.  I do not want to learn another system and (more than likely) use a system that lacks features that vB has had for years.

All they need is a link on the iccsafe site that points to vB.  Of course just about anybody can set up vB, so that would be too easy.  The money to be made is in the interfact between their existing database of members and vB.  Not in designing a new bulletin board system.


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## TJacobs

It is about the website AND the bulletin board. I don't have time now to go into detail but suffice it to say that they not only screwed up the BB but the entire website. What they showed us was the web re-design since Feb. and they have come a long way. They are using an add-on for Sharepoint that looks very much like a standard BB. We already complained about the race car sound which has already been removed, and the ridiculous picture of the "beautiful people" that takes up too much screen real estate on EVERY page.

Can't add much more to what has already been said. Suffice it to say the BB members here have not held back on the criticism of ICC, and not just about the BB but the lack of ICC focus on the basics.


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## jpranch

Stuck in DIA. Beer 5.50 a glass! Fatboy, this ones for you.                   Need a little time to digest everything. Uncle Bob, I' call you soon. Very happy to know all is well.


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## jpranch

Stuck in DIA. Beer 5.50 a glass! Fatboy, this ones for you.                   Need a little time to digest everything. Uncle Bob, I' call you soon. Very happy to know all is well.


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## TimNY

Sorry, didn't mean to get all preachy on the bulletin board.  I never go to the iccsafe site except a few times to check my certs and when I need to order books (not often), so the rest of the website really isn't of interest to me.  I will use what remaining energy I have to restrain myself from ranting about Microsoft.

Did I mention I think they should use vBulletin?


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## RJJ

JP you had two posts on the same thing. So you must be broke at 5.50 a beer cause you are saying things twice. Hope you can find the plane.


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## jpranch

Not the case. Just not used to posting with a Blackberry.


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## Uncle Bob

JP,

Looking forward to the call. I hope everyone gets home safely.  Make time for a lot of questions.   

Ya'll are the best,

Uncle Bob


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## FM William Burns

Safe travel JP!


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## jpranch

Plane is broke. Let'er buck!


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## packsaddle

You get what you pay for!


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## peach

I'm back from Denver... long, productive days (I couldn't post because the g&h keys won't work on my laptop... now I'm docked at home and happily can use those particular keys - so I can log in!)... We hammered ICC pretty hard about their previous manner of creating the Communities of Interest (now informally called the thing in the thing).

There will be a peer to peer community section that will be for members only, but the bulletin board will look alot like the old one and free to all. It's still going to be on their sharepoint platform (which is why the vbulletin won't work).

ICC "manned up", acknowledged that they alienated many of us, and apologized for that.  The other one from ICC was Kyle, the web content editor.  Sanjay is the CIO.  Michael is the VP in charge of marketing, outreach, and 3 other things.. I didn't get his card.

Webtek is more than a web design company, I think...

All in all, I believe we all felt pretty good about it when we left... 4 of us rode to the airport together and that's what we talked about all the way to DIA.

Missed you UB... I'll call you this week. You get home yet JP (Like rent a car and drive)?

Oh, and ICC is going to take that photo of 3 beautiful people... they seem to think that may not be completely representative of ICC membership (go figure)... to their credit, they did select all the pretty people to go.

And you can lay to rest your suspicions that I'm not a woman.


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## Yankee

I like this sponsor on the banner at iccsafe tonight ~

"International Code Council World Toilet Summit "

hahaha, , , advertisers . . . go figure


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## Uncle Bob

Hi Nice Lady,

I knew ya'll would make us proud.  All of you get some much needed rest.  You've earned it.

I'll keep the phone nearby,

Uncle Bob


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## peach

we all had a good laugh (including Michael Armstrong) about the toilet summit


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## Mule

Not home yet. The wife and I decides to make a mini-vacation out of the flight to Denver.

It was a pleasure meeting everyone on this forum that was at the ICC Man-up meeting. Peach is a peach, Fatboy's not fat but he does have one heck of a moustache!!! You could hang him in a tree and use his tache for a swing! Daddy-o won a nice AE gift certificate along with.....well let me put it this way...there were six nice gifts and "our gang" won 5 out of 6...not bad huh??? Vegas Paul is a smooth dresser that may need to think about Greecion Formula...pretty quick!!! TJacobs well what can I say....Go cubs!! jpranch...Yep!! He's a cowboy..he was talking about buying a mule but I'm not quite ready to move to Wyoming. Code Neophyte...good guy..he just couldn't get a word in because believe it or not Frank....from Virginia..can't remember how to spell his last name loves to talk......man does he love to talk...the discussion went from residential fire sprinklers to air bags in a car..all in one breath!!! Met Enginerd and I believe Tim...the fire guy. Didn't get to talk to him much. Anyway the pleasure was all mine meeting all of you folks from this forum. I'll look forward to meeting up again!

About the meeting..another rep from ICC that was there was Tom, which is with ICC web support. So the people from ICC was Mike, Tom, Sanjay (sp) and Kyle.

As others have said VERY IMPRESSIVE MEETING. I honestly believe that ICC is on the right track. They owned up to the terrible mistake and when the building discussion forum comes back they are just going to torpedo the Community's of Interest. Which was refered to as the Thing of Things.

I honestly feel ICC is serious and things will actuall be better than the old BB thta was yanked out from underneath us.

Nobody pulled any punches and ICC took it on the chin like they deserved. Things will get better.


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## Mark K

The challenge for ICC will be how they deal with the rational heretics that challenge the status quo.

Building officials need a place to talk about issues that are important to them but it should be recognized that there are other stakeholders who are interested in codes and how they are administered.   I also share the concern that ICC will attempt to impose their ideas of political correctness.  In the long term such circling of the wagons will not serve ICC or the building officials well.


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## Code Neophyte

It was truly a privilege finally meeting many of you and putting a face with the formerly-faceless identity.  Hope everyone made it home safely (Mule and TJacobs:  hope you're enjoying your extended stay).

Echoing what the others have said, I came away with a renewed sense of optimism regarding the future of the ICC website - particularly the discussion board - and the ICC, as well.  We can't be afraid of changes - changes in appearance, changes in technology, etc.; but the ICC certainly went about the change they instituted last year in the worst way they possibly could have, and they completely acknowledge that.  The new board my have a slightly different feel, but the functional aspects that we demand (and that were stripped away in the Edsel of Interest) will be reinstated.  Time will tell, but I am open to giving it a chance.  I'm looking forward to working with this group on the project as it continues to develop, and hope we get opportunities to meet again in the future.


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## jpranch

Home again. There was a lot of excellent dicussion. On point not mentoned yet and concearn by Mark K: We did tell the icc that posts on the forum would (shall) allow us to complain about the icc. This is good and healthy for any organization! Mike Armstrong agreed and furthur stated that the icc really needed to get "thick skined". You all need to also know that this in part is about money. Now that in and of itself is not a bad thing. Here are some interesting tid bits relayed to some of the group last Thursday night: Within one hour after the old site shut down the cow received 400 email compliants. In the first week the cow received 4,000 email compliants! Sense last October membership has fallen 30%. After the shutdown of the old site the number of hits on their site fell by 7,000 per month! These are staggering numbers.

I too enjoyed meeting everybody and hope to see a lot of you again in Charlotte. For those of you who could not attend let me share this: To say we were pretty hard on the icc dudes there is understated. I think they finally understand the level of anger, hurt, and distrust that THEY are respondsable for.

As for me I'm sure as hell not going down the garden path with blinders on. Yes it was a very good meeting and productive as well. BUT, (or is that BUTT?) show me, show me, show me. Now listen cow and listen good. You (we) better get it right. There will not ever be another chance period.


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## RickAstoria

peach said:
			
		

> I'm back from Denver... long, productive days (I couldn't post because the g&h keys won't work on my laptop... now I'm docked at home and happily can use those particular keys - so I can log in!)... We hammered ICC pretty hard about their previous manner of creating the Communities of Interest (now informally called the thing in the thing).There will be a peer to peer community section that will be for members only, but the bulletin board will look alot like the old one and free to all. It's still going to be on their sharepoint platform (which is why the vbulletin won't work).
> 
> ICC "manned up", acknowledged that they alienated many of us, and apologized for that.  The other one from ICC was Kyle, the web content editor.  Sanjay is the CIO.  Michael is the VP in charge of marketing, outreach, and 3 other things.. I didn't get his card.
> 
> Webtek is more than a web design company, I think...
> 
> All in all, I believe we all felt pretty good about it when we left... 4 of us rode to the airport together and that's what we talked about all the way to DIA.
> 
> Missed you UB... I'll call you this week. You get home yet JP (Like rent a car and drive)?
> 
> Oh, and ICC is going to take that photo of 3 beautiful people... they seem to think that may not be completely representative of ICC membership (go figure)... to their credit, they did select all the pretty people to go.
> 
> And you can lay to rest your suspicions that I'm not a woman.


An alternative to vBulletin is phpBB which I believe can be worked into Sharepoint.

The trick is actually KNOWING what to do and how to share the MS SQL database without F***ing it all up.

phpBB is very similar to vBulletin in many ways.


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## jar546

phpBB compared to VBulletin is like comparing a used Pinto to a new Mercedes Benz E class

They both get you where you want to go but you will have more stability, safety, functionality and comfort in the latter.


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## Uncle Bob

Recieved this message from Milton Grew; who tried to post here and had some difficulty; so he e-mailed this to me, and I am posting it.

Note: Could someone help him join this site, please.

*"Milton Grew*

Milton Gregory "Greg" Grew, AIA is CEO of Grew Design, Inc and Grew Construction, LLC in Woodbury, CT. Greg is a licensed architect, building official, and contractor with over 20 years designing/building residential, commercial and institutional building projects. www.GrewDesign.com

ICC INTENDS TO BE MORE USER-FRIENDLY

September 11th, 2010 by Milton Grew

I was pleased to have been invited by the *International Code Council (ICC) *to participate in the *ICC Community Coalition Event* held in Denver, Colorado during September 8 - 10, 2010. There were about 40 of us including ICC administration, ICC technology staff, ICC website consultants, ICC members who are code officials, architects, engineers, students, builders, and even some non-members. The objective of the meeting was to determine how ICC can better serve its members and the public through its discussion board, website resources, social media and organically creating groups to share their experience and specialized knowledge.

The ICC has realized that there has been a disconnect that developed between active online members and the code council. The old online discussion board which had been well used by the public and membership to answer questions and exchange ideas was taken down. Then another discussion board was brought online that was poorly received due to its integration with “Communities of Interest”. On top of that the council’s entire website had become cumbersome, difficult to use, hard to search, and unreliable. Active online members went looking elsewhere for discussion boards and found other places to communicate.

Some of us had an inkling that ICC was waking up to the problem when we had been asked to respond to a couple of online surveys that seemed targeted at getting to heart of our discontent. But what an even better gesture when some of us were invited to participate in this event in Denver where we were encouraged to speak freely and the attenders pulled no punches and expressed everything that annoyed them about the ICC’s web presence and resources. And ICC staff, in particular Michael Armstrong, SVP of Membership and Outreach Services, were excellent listeners, willing to admit mistakes, and came prepared to show us a preview of ideas they had for improvements. Even better, they accepted constructive criticism of these improvements and made the committment to gradually role out a new discussion board and website features and resources.

Valerie Mach of Web Teks, Inc. very ably moderated most of our discussions. Tom Larson, President of Web Teks, Inc. helped us appreciate some of the more technical aspects of website development. Sanjay Gupta, ICC Chief Information Officer gave us good feedback on our concerns and discussed how the improvements would be sequenced. Michael Armstrong, ICC SVP kept us in touch with the bigger picture and reassured us of ICC’s commitment to improving. DaMika Lofton of Web Teks, Inc. was a great host in organizing handouts, travel arrangements, and making the event an enjoyable experience. Kyle Volenik, Web Content Editor for ICC was very enthusiastic about his role in expanding ICC into social networks.

I won’t spoil the surprises and don’t want to give away too much so I will leave it for ICC to make their formal announcements when they are ready. I wanted to share with my readers that they should look forward to the improvements and be ready to accept a more user-friendly code organization. These changes will help the public appreciate the value of building codes and increase the professionalism of its members."

This is from the AECCafe; which has some articles that may be of interest to all;

http://www10.aeccafe.com/blogs/miltongrew/2010/09/11/icc-intends-to-be-more-user-friendly/

Thank you, Greg,

Uncle Bob


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## Daddy-0-

All,

I also very much enjoyed meeting everyone that travelled to Denver and I enjoyed the ICC beer as well. Thanks... For me, the only way that this thing would work was with a huge helping of the ICC eating crow and owning up their mistakes. I sincerely feel that they came to the meeting with their hat in their hand and that this meeting went about as well as it possibly could have. Several things to note:

1. These ICC guys are all fairly new employees. They have replaced some of the ones that got us into this mess.

2. Webtec is a new contract hire as well to eliminate and replace the old company that gave them really bad advice.

3. The ICC is going to engage some of their teaching staff to participate in the new BB so that they are more interactive with the site.

4. Why did I not order Filet Mignon like everyone else?

5. New BB will have some very user friendly features (picture upload options, easy links, easy editing and previews etc.) with tutorials and such.

6. People, handles and archives from the old BB will be saved and cross referenced but I did not understand how.

7. I saw Michael, Demika and Valerie on the plane to D.C. coming home. They were all flying economy class with the rest of the real world.

I feel good about the product and the sincerity of the ICC. They seem to be in tune now with the situation and are working diligently to fix their mistakes. My 2c.


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## peach

Just noticed that the ICC website is down for upgrades... maybe (just maybe), they are taking some of our comments to heart already.

Daddy... I wondered about #4 as well...


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## vegas paul

I enjoyed meeting everyone.  Sorry about some of my long rants, but at least (as Mule pointed out) Frank could out-talk me without breathing.  Mule - I'm not going the Grecian Formula route, at my age I'm just happy to have hair, regardless of color.

I can only repeat and reinforce what others have said about ICC's attitude.  They were apologetic and contrite.  I did NOT detect lip-service, although I came expecting it.  I truly thought they were sincere.  Maybe I'm being naive again, but I believe that they realize that they screwed the pooch last year and need to make drastic changes per our desires.  Look forward to sharing the changes with all of you!


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## jpranch

#4??? Shoot, I'm as bold as winter when it comes to grazing!


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## jpranch

Perhaps we have all left the most important part out? The new site and BB is not fully developed yet. The group that met in Denver decides the final product. Now that is a scary thought! Yes they showed us their work to this point but it is a work in progress> The "hard release" will not happen until the spring of 2011. So there is still a lot of work to do. AND if this new site and BB falls on it's face those from the Denver group will hold some respondsibility. With that said I can only hope that we all do well? This remains to be seen...

Post Script: Those of us here on jars board have and will be reading all of the posts especially on this topic so that we can take all the suggestions / comments / compliants to the table. Don't think that just because you were not able to attend Denver that you do not have any impact. Nothing could be futhur from the truth!


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## peach

JP... I came home, discussed with hubbie and dogs... retirement in Gillette (or it's suburbs) doesn't sound half bad.

Neighbor came over yesterday wanting to give us part of his bushel of blue crabs, so they are, indeed in season. We passed (already making ribs).. and while I can eat pre-murdered food, can't get into the murder part of a meal.

YES, YES, YES... everyone feel free to contribute.  After the paper launch and beta launch, we'll have a lot to impart to this larger group.


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## jpranch

peach, "(or it's suburbs)". Sorry to disappoint but there arn't any. Yet. I'm sure that will come in time. Ya know you could have sent those crabs to me? What the heck!

Another thing that some may want to know. The question was asked as to why the icc did not do a press release prior to the Denver meeting. Mike Armstrong clearly indicated that even they were not sure if anybody would show up? And if they did show up how hostile would we be? They also did not release because they "did not want us to feel that we were being used by the icc proppaganda machine".  I about fell out of my chair.

We all agreed that a press release should be done on the site sometime in the next two weeks. We shall see. Stay tuned for more...


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## peach

suburbs may be 80 miles away (remember, I've been to Gillette) ...    Those crabs would have crawled out of the FedEx box.

I believe ICC will put a press release on their website... and we'll pick it up on ours... if you have a webmaster willing to do that (OK..modify it to show your jurisdictions' participation.. even better, IMHO)... do it.

Stay tuned.


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## Daddy-0-

....Also, they did admit that have been monitoring this and other boards so if you post a comment on this thread it will be read.

Peach, How could you pass up fresh crabs???? Nothing better in my book. Even that filet. I don't think JPRanch can shoot me from Wyoming but ducking none the less. Enjoyed the trip immensely and we will all think of other things as the days progress. Keep em coming.


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## peach

Daddy.. just look in their little eyes saying "don't boil me... I'll make a good house pet"...

JP's scraping those veggies off his plate was, well.. .priceless!


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## Mule

Well the wife and I are in the airport now fixing to head home. Just got a message that the flight home is delayed for 1 hour. They took the plane out of service. I would rather them take the plane out of service than have an inflight problem.

I asked Kyle, ICC web person. if he had ever been to this site. He stated no....so I gave him a business card to this site. I told him he might be able to get some feel for what our group wants and what is needed to gain our trust back as far as what is expected. So post away with your questions, wants, desires or anything you want ICC to hear.

I am patiently waiting to see how ICC responds.

Also an interesting note. At the meeting were placards for everyone to write their name on. Everyone from our group was not bashfull at all to write our handles on our name placards. So ICC and Webtech knew who we were and who we were representing. We also handed out several cards or gave information on how to find this site.


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## peach

Hi Mule,

Hope you had fun on your side jaunt...

Kyle may not be monitoring this site (yet) .. Valerie is..

We'll see... it's on them now to put their talents where their mouths are!

Travel safely.


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## jpranch

Mule, Safe journey.

Well, it's back to work tomorrow. Charlotte next month and I'm supposed to travel to Bend Oregon some time this winter. Denver again after the first of the year for the 2nd half of the cbo exam. Man does it feel good to be home. Lights out soon for me. Only 40 miniutes before bedtime. Have a good week everybody.

Post Script: Kyle & Valerie, Welcome to our world! Soon to be our world?


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## Enginerd

Back to work again.

It was nice meeting all of you that were able to make it to Denver.  Those that couldn't be there were missed.  My only regret is that I didn't gt to talk to some ofyou as much as I would have liked.

I agree that we are all optomistic that the changes ICC will make in the coming months will be for the better.  The leadership that was represented from ICC are all relatively new to the organization, and they have the task at hand to fix the problems left by others.  We all know how difficult that can be.

We need to keep the lines of communication open to discuss what we like and don't like about the proposed BB.  Change is hard, but like we have to keep reminding contractors - just because you have been doing it for 15 years, doesn't mean it was right (or the only way).  I think the proposed BB shows some great improvements for editing and sharing of attachments.  And if it all works in the end, should we care what platform it is using?

Glad everyone made it home safe.  It was a long couple of days, but definately glad I was able to be a part of it.


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## Mech

So, if we have any more suggestions for the BB, do we post in this thread or one of the previous ones?


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## jpranch

Would it be better to start another thread just for this purpose? Would it be a good idea to post the Denver groups names so that everybody would have the option to send a committe member a private message? Just brainstorming here.


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## ewenme

JP: I think a new thread with a different title is in order.  Call it the ICC Help Page? It would nice to know some of the other details from the meeting in Denver. How many people actually attended? Any that were not part of this board? Any from other boards?  When you compare how long it took Jeff to set up this board, and how long it will be before the ICC gets the 'newer and more improved' ICC Board up and running, you get the feeling that bureaucracy can only slow things down to a crawl rivaling molasses uphill in January.


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## Mule

ewenme said:
			
		

> JP: How many people actually attended?


Including ICC staff and WebTech I would say there were around 40 of us at the meeting.



			
				ewenme said:
			
		

> Any that were not part of this board?


I believe there were 10??? from this board.



			
				ewenme said:
			
		

> Any from other boards?


Yes there were others from various boards. Architecture boards, NAHB, Engineer forums etc.

Among the attendees were

Building Officials/3rd party official (peach), 10 or 12

Inspectors, 3 or 4

Fire Official 1 I think

Architects, 2 or 3

Engineers 2 0r 3

Home Builders 2

Independent companies 2

Student 1

I'm pretty close on my counts but not certain.



			
				ewenme said:
			
		

> When you compare how long it took Jeff to set up this board, and how long it will be before the ICC gets the 'newer and more improved' ICC Board up and running, you get the feeling that bureaucracy can only slow things down to a crawl rivaling molasses uphill in January.


There is more going on than just the forum. From what I understand there is going to be an entire revamping of the ICC web site. As far as the forum goes from what I understand they (ICC) is going to incorporate the old board into the new board. They know they screwed up and are trying to fix their screw up.

From one of jp's posts...In the first week the cow received 4,000 email compliants! Since last October membership has fallen 30%. After the shutdown of the old site the number of hits on their site fell by 7,000 per month! These are staggering numbers.


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## Enginerd

Mule said:
			
		

> Among the attendees were Building Officials/3rd party official (peach), 10 or 12
> 
> Inspectors, 3 or 4
> 
> Fire Official 1 I think
> 
> Architects, 2 or 3
> 
> Engineers 2 0r 3
> 
> Home Builders 2
> 
> Independent companies 2
> 
> Student 1


Mule, that sounds about right.  Some ofus also wear multiple hats.

There were also 3 from ICC and 3 from Webteks.  Valerie (from Webteks) was going to pass along the contact information for everyone once she got permission.  I did not get the request for pemission yet (although she has my permisson).  Did you?


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## Mule

No emails yet. Probably too busy working on the site. But yes they have my permission also.


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## John W Tichnor

jpranch said:
			
		

> Stuck in DIA. Beer 5.50 a glass! Fatboy, this ones for you.                   Need a little time to digest everything. Uncle Bob, I' call you soon. Very happy to know all is well.


hello jpranch i was the youngster student at the metting in dia i want to ssay thank you for your time and addvice


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## John W Tichnor

hello everyone i was the student at dia i am new at this disscussion board i just wanted to thank all of those who offered advice and sugesting to me this board hope all got home safe ca johnny


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## jpranch

John, I can tell you that you are among like minded people here. Welcome to the BB. Your insight in Denver was invaluable. Save this site as one of your favorites. This is a good place to be.

If you would allow me this little bit of lattitude: Contrary to what some may say... code officials are not gods (little-g) All just sinners looking for a little grace.

Well crap, just violated the hands off on politics and religion. Well...


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## mtlogcabin

Thats okay jp some of us needed to be reminded of the TRUTH every now and then.


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## Uncle Bob

John,

Welcome to the forum.

There is a world of good information here; and, we do get a little passionate sometimes.

Good to see you here,

Uncle Bob


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## Enginerd

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Thats okay jp some of us needed to be reminded of the TRUTH every now and then.


Some more than others.


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## Mule

John,

Welcome to the board. Your comments were well received. THIS is the place to be right now.

Please ask questions no matter how minute you think they may be. Trust me we are all still learning!

I've seen topics where I knew what the answer was but after discussing a certain topic I changed my way of thinking. A fresh mind is always a good thing! Some of us on here tend to get a little stale because we think we know the code and then all of a sudden the code up and changes....Dang! When did the put that in there????? Oh about six years ago!!!! Ooops!

Anyway, welcome and throw this site out to all of your student friends.

Oh and you said as a student that you don't have a lot of money.....well guess what? You're in the wrong profession if you mthink you are going to get wealthy!    We are in for the love of the codes and to help others.


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## fatboy

Welcome John, and I agree with the others, you brought a different perspective to the meeting, glad you were there.


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## TJacobs

Hello John and welcome!  All I can add is that if I was a god then the Cubs would have won the World Series in 1969, 1984, 1989, etc.  Without passion this board would get boring, so let us have it!


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## NH09

I just wanted say it was nice meeting you all in Denver and I have to admit I did'nt know this board existed until talking to Mule at one of the breaks. I "lurked" (a few posts) at the old ICC board prior to it's unexplained disappearance and was able to find some great answers there. I'm happy to see that most of you migrated to this board, and I will make an effort to contribute a little more this time around. I also wish I had ordered the Filet Mignon.

NH09

Building Inspector/Code Enforcement

New Hampshire


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## fatboy

Welcome to the board, lurk away, or post like crazy, we take them all!


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## Mule

NH09,

Welcome to the board. Glad I was able to lure you in    If you know of anyone else who could benefit from this forum please pass on the information.


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## Daddy-0-

WOW..if nothing else we drummed up some business in Denver. Welcome to all of the newcomers. Spread the word and jump in when you are ready. Thanks for signing up.


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## jpranch

Well look, The beta is at least 2 months out. Sooooo, a lot of us will be elk or deer hunting over the comming months. You have to have your priorities! The new icc board will not happen until the spring of 2011. Many, many of us have found a home here. 600+ members and counting. Between now and the spring of 2011 I would wager that many will find this site as a result of...

The fact is that this is a very good place to be and near as I can figure will be a good place to be for a very long time. I do also beleive that because of what we did in Denver last week combined with the proposed timeline that this site will continue to grow. AND as clearly indicated by icc staff they realize that there are many that participate in many different boards. This is quite a change in direction from the "members only"   "Communities if Interests" now known as "the things of things"... barf...

The "thing of things" as recognized by the cow IS, doa, pos, dog dirt, road apples, etc...

To quote Daddy-O: "WOW..if nothing else we drummed up some business in Denver."  You bet. At least in the go round. Lets see who who makes the finals?


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## peach

Welcome John and NH09... nice to put names/faces together.

Lurk away... If nothing else, meeting people with different perspectives was great!

Busy... got a big commercial interior remodel, a new base buildings and those residential remodelers.


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## DRP

I've about gotten over the altitude   , back home in the Blue Ridge with bluegrass on the radio. It was a pleasure to meet with you all. I was the token non member/ builder/ riff raff sitting beside DeMika in the corner. Thanks for the heads up about this board. I had not realized there was a migration from the "communities" or that anyone other than the public was discontent with the arrangement, I just went back to work when I heard the closing of another door. I'm glad and appreciative you all stuck to your guns and helped make this happen. The change a year ago brought a saying to mind, "you cannot define just a group, when you do you define two groups, those inside and those outside". Hopefully we can all move forward realizing we share common goals.During dinner I was talking with a few of y'all about a little project I had underway... and I'm curious about posting pics here. We passed grading and engineering yesterday on some oak timbers I harvested on the jobsite, got the porch posts and beams set today. I enjoyed spending a little time with you all.

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## jpranch

DRP, Welcome and enjoy this site. This is the place to be. Really enjoyed your perspective and comments in Denver. Ahhhh, the Blue Ridge and bluegrass. Your preaching to the choir brother! Play stand-bass myself.

As for rough timber... Well, all anybody has to do is go back to the old CABO codes with a little simple engineering that todays 9th grader can do and PROJECT APPROVED! What have we become?


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## fatboy

Welcome DRP...........I was one of the folks that was chatting with you at dinner. Keep the pics coming! Schweeeet!


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## jpranch

fatboy, Did you approve your contact information to the softwear vendor yet? I did that yesterday and recommended that they also include the a.k.a. Such as jpranch, fatboy, vegas paul, etc... What do you think?


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## fatboy

Yes, and yes, good idea!


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## Mech

> Did you approve your contact information to the softwear vendor yet?


I read this and thought you guys were getting shirts or something. Then I realized that you were talking about *software.* Oops, my fault. The English language is great, isn't it?  LOL!!!


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## jpranch

Understood. We are just putting together a contact list of those who were in Denver. Looks like we will be working together for the next year or so?


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## jpranch

Sure dose look like we have some new members here as a result of Denver!


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## fatboy

yup. picked up several I believe!


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## AegisFPE

There was an old thread where some users shared info beyond their handle - but maybe it was lost with the software upgrade, back in the day!


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## jpranch

How in the pit of haides can any organization screw up this much in less than 12 months?

View attachment 198


View attachment 198


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## Daddy-0-

DRP,

Always like to see more Virginia people. Thanks for coming over and welcome. I also enjoyed meeting you in Denver. I have done some timber frame work. Very rewarding but overwhelming for some inspectors. Got any more pics?


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