# Window replacement, Permitting and Flashing Inspection



## joetheinspector (Nov 29, 2011)

Question #1

Does your municipality require a permit to change out existing windows?

Question #2

If so is an exterior flashing inspection required?

We require a permit and a flashing inspection for replacement windows. The reason we do is to check for code compliance. Including, safety glass, sleeping room egress, exterior flashing, etc.


----------



## gbhammer (Nov 29, 2011)

We do not require a permit to change out existing windows unless they intend to make an alteration to the size of the window.


----------



## ICE (Nov 29, 2011)

joetheinspector said:
			
		

> Question #1Does your municipality require a permit to change out existing windows?
> 
> Question #2
> 
> ...


We do the same as you and require a floor plan with a schedule of the existing windows.


----------



## fatboy (Nov 29, 2011)

No, we are the same as GBH


----------



## mjesse (Nov 29, 2011)

gbhammer said:
			
		

> We do not require a permit to change out existing windows unless they intend to make an alteration to the size of the window.


Same here.

mj


----------



## brudgers (Nov 29, 2011)

Personally, I think requiring a replacement window permit is symptomatic of an overstaffed building department.


----------



## pwood (Nov 29, 2011)

mjesse said:
			
		

> Same here. mj





			
				fatboy said:
			
		

> No, we are the same as GBH


same thing here


----------



## cboboggs (Nov 29, 2011)

Same as pwood, mjesse, fatboy and gbh.


----------



## ICE (Nov 29, 2011)

brudgers said:
			
		

> Personally, I think requiring a replacement window permit is symptomatic of an overstaffed building department.


Even with a floor plan and schedule, safety glazing and eeros get missed quite often.  Some of the examples of flashing that we encounter make it clear that there is a need for oversight.


----------



## gbhammer (Nov 29, 2011)

I have seen some crazy window installations that should have had inspections, so I get it. We just don't have the man power to do inspections on things like re-roofs and windows.


----------



## Mule (Nov 29, 2011)

Same as you Joe.... the inspector.


----------



## KZQuixote (Nov 29, 2011)

joetheinspector said:
			
		

> Question #1Does your municipality require a permit to change out existing windows?
> 
> Question #2
> 
> ...


Hi Joe,

Not to hijack your topic, perhaps just kink it a bit.

If a home had bedroom windows that do not meet current egress requirements should a building department require compliance with current code when  replacement windows are to be installed.

TIA

Bill


----------



## Mule (Nov 29, 2011)

I'll throw what we do at you....

If the replacement does not make the window less than what the current egrees conditions are then no we do not require them to comply with current codes.


----------



## High Desert (Nov 29, 2011)

KZ, not in a city north of you.

Exemption from Permit - ORSC Section R105.2, Item 17. Door and window replacement (where no structural member is changed).


----------



## fatboy (Nov 29, 2011)

What mule said......even though we don't issue permits, when folks call, that what we tell them.


----------



## ICE (Nov 29, 2011)

Mule said:
			
		

> I'll throw what we do at you....If the replacement does not make the window less than what the current egrees conditions are then no we do not require them to comply with current codes.


We do that too.  That's a difficult concept for a lot of folks.  They think that as long as they didn't make the hole that the window goes into any smaller, then they are good.  Trying to explain that it is the hole that you crawl through can be a pain after they installed retrofits that reduced the opening.


----------



## Alias (Nov 29, 2011)

gbhammer said:
			
		

> We do not require a permit to change out existing windows unless they intend to make an alteration to the size of the window.


Ditto here.  Most of the windows that are getting replaced here are the old double hung.  The new inserts make it a quick and easy job and require no structural alterations.  Remove the sashes, insert replacement window, trim, and you are done.

And as Mule & fatboy have said, as long as it doesn't make the opening any smaller, no permit.

I put an insert into the water bill last spring with widow requirements.  It has gotten folks to call and it has helped with getting the correct information out to the public.


----------



## Papio Bldg Dept (Nov 29, 2011)

joetheinspector said:
			
		

> Question #1Does your municipality require a permit to change out existing windows?


If style (i.e., double-hung, casement, tempered, etc.) and size (i.e., larger, smaller) do not change, then no.  If style or size do change, then yes.



			
				joetheinspector said:
			
		

> Question #2If so is an exterior flashing inspection required?


No flashing inspection.  We would inspect for structural (i.e., header, king studs, etc) and life safety (i.e., egress, tempering, etc.).


----------



## KZQuixote (Nov 29, 2011)

Alias said:
			
		

> Ditto here.  Most of the windows that are getting replaced here are the old double hung.  The new inserts make it a quick and easy job and require no structural alterations.  Remove the sashes, insert replacement window, trim, and you are done.And as Mule & fatboy have said, as long as it doesn't make the opening any smaller, no permit.
> 
> I put an insert into the water bill last spring with widow requirements.  It has gotten folks to call and it has helped with getting the correct information out to the public.


Hi Folks,

Thanks for your responses and Thank You also to Joetheinspector for tolerating my hijack.

Windows and doors are my specialty and I'd like to split this hair a little finer. In the fenestration replacement business there are basically two types of window jobs.

The first is a retrofit window. A retrofit window is a new window that fits within and existing window frame. Installation of a retrofit window ALWAYS results in a reduction of free opening size. Examples of retrofit windows would include:

*Pocket Windows. The window Alias described above is a pocket window (Some times called a block frame window) . I'm sorry to disappoint you Alias but installation of a pocket window not only will raise the sill height but ALWAYS results in a smaller free opening size. *

*Flush Fin Windows. These vinyl windows are installed into an existing aluminum frame after removing the sashes and interlock. Flush Fin windows ALWAYS reduce free opening sizes.*

The second type of window job is a replacement window. A replacement window is just that, a whole new window. Obviously to replace the whole window the exterior cladding must be removed and the new window must be properly integrated with the weather resistive barrier. Replacement windows typically do not reduce free opening size.

Many window replacement companies and many building inspection departments rationalize retrofit windows as maintaining free opening size when in fact the resultant free opening is approximately three inches shorter and narrower.

Just another fly in the ointment.

Bill


----------



## ICE (Nov 29, 2011)

Retrofit.  The original aluminum track measured 3/4".  The opening height went from 48" to 50".


----------



## KZQuixote (Nov 29, 2011)

ICE said:
			
		

> Retrofit.  The original aluminum track measured 3/4".  The opening height went from 48" to 50".


As usual, You're out to lunch!!!! If the aluminum track measured 3/4" and by my read of your pic I see 2 3/4". Given the same thing happens on the top Copernicus says the opening diminished by 4". That would suggest that you need a subordinate who reads the tape for you. Proally need the subordinate to sign off on the arithmetic as well.

Bill


----------



## KZQuixote (Nov 29, 2011)

Looking again at another seam line, I see 1 3/4", that would  result in a loss of two inches, still in the NEGATIVE direction.

Bill


----------



## ICE (Nov 29, 2011)

KZQuixote said:
			
		

> As usual, You're out to lunch!!!! If the aluminum track measured 3/4" and by my read of your pic I see 2 3/4". Given the same thing happens on the top Copernicus says the opening diminished by 4". That would suggest that you need a subordinate who reads the tape for you. Proally need the subordinate to sign off on the arithmetic as well.Bill


Sorry to blow your skirt up Willie.  I guess I probably wasn't clear enough for anybody but me.  The height off the floor went up two inches.   Oh and about the subordinate, have you met Mini-Tiger?  So enough with the niceties.  Tell me what you really think.


----------



## KZQuixote (Nov 29, 2011)

Opening Height/Sill Height.

It's all about terminology ain't it?

Bill


----------



## ICE (Nov 29, 2011)

KZQuixote said:
			
		

> Opening Height/Sill Height.It's all about termoniaglly ain't it?
> 
> Bill


That's it?.....That's the best you can come up with?.....Damn, I was expecting a huff and a puff and I'll bloooowwww your house down.  Your spelling of terminology is the ironic twist I like about you.  Certainly, you are more than a moment's entertainment.  Let's squeeze out two.

Bye Bye Willy!  You're off to a new day of breathing through the top of your head.  Oh crap, that's the whale, not you.  That's right mouthbreathingwindowanddoorman.  {Ya have to imagine the music.}    I no-longer see your beady little eyes.  This feels refreshing.  It must be the music.  Oh and Wills, the first PM was out of line, from there you just got ugly.


----------



## jar546 (Nov 30, 2011)

Mule said:
			
		

> I'll throw what we do at you....If the replacement does not make the window less than what the current egrees conditions are then no we do not require them to comply with current codes.


You won't know that unless you inspect it, know what the current window looks like and have the exact specs on the replacement window.


----------



## jar546 (Nov 30, 2011)

KZQuixote said:
			
		

> Opening Height/Sill Height.It's all about terminology ain't it?
> 
> Bill


I understood what he meant.  Made sense to me.  Little harsh on your initial response, heh?


----------



## Mule (Nov 30, 2011)

jar546 said:
			
		

> You won't know that unless you inspect it, know what the current window looks like and have the exact specs on the replacement window.


We require those specifications at the time of the application for the permit. We only require the bedroom window information. Height of sill from floor and inside clear dimensions.


----------



## north star (Nov 30, 2011)

*& & & &*

Folks a little feisty this morning ain't they!

*& & & &*


----------



## Mule (Nov 30, 2011)

Too many Rocky Mountain Oysters!


----------



## jar546 (Nov 30, 2011)

Mule said:
			
		

> We require those specifications at the time of the application for the permit. We only require the bedroom window information. Height of sill from floor and inside clear dimensions.


Ahh, unpaid work.  But, that is the difference between a municipality providing a service and a for profit 3rd party agency.


----------



## joetheinspector (Nov 30, 2011)

Thanks for all the good posts.

It is surprising how many new or retro-fit window installations (even with a floor plan and window schedule) do not meet code (safety glass, egress, flashing).

As far as meeting the egress requirements of the current building code: we have adopted appendix J or 2009 IRC. Section AJ102.1 . . . shall not make the building any less conforming to this code . . .

So if the opening, the clear opening (the opening you crawl through). Is not any smaller then it meets code.

ICE the sill going from 48 to 50 would not meet code.

Also we see retro-fit windows that close in the opening a little and do meet current code because the original window was lower and had a bigger opening then required by code.


----------



## Jennifer Jenkins (Jan 18, 2019)

joetheinspector said:


> Question #1
> 
> Does your municipality require a permit to change out existing windows?
> 
> ...



I have a great recommendation of a company that installed my windows and do everything up-to-code and work with the Home Owner's Association. It's in Dallas.


----------



## ADAguy (Jan 18, 2019)

Alias said:


> Ditto here.  Most of the windows that are getting replaced here are the old double hung.  The new inserts make it a quick and easy job and require no structural alterations.  Remove the sashes, insert replacement window, trim, and you are done.
> 
> And as Mule & fatboy have said, as long as it doesn't make the opening any smaller, no permit.
> 
> I put an insert into the water bill last spring with widow requirements.  It has gotten folks to call and it has helped with getting the correct information out to the public.



"That" is the most logical transfer of notice I have heard, why can't you do the same thing with ADA compliance?


----------

