# fire alarms for A-5 outdoor bleachers



## Examiner (Oct 15, 2015)

Outdoor football stadium seating apx 7,400.  Press Box at top row of bleachers and the press box is under 1,000-sf.  Press Box does have accessible route.  Per ICC 300-2012 Section 309 Exception #1 we have meet all five or the requirements so an emergency voice/alarm system is not required.

The questions are;

will a fire alarm pull station be required?

if required where to mount on the bleachers?

if required how many pull stations?

how and where to mount the visual/audible alarm units?  after all the field lighting poles are behind the stands.

It is confusing to me.  It seems that IFC 907.2 and its sub sections send you to 907.5 and its sub sections and around again.

There are not any buildings or structures under the bleachers.  There are out buildings; restrooms, ticket/concession and field house but they are well over 50-ft from the home and visitor bleachers.  My electrical engineer is telling me that the smaller out buildings are not required fire alarms.  I am sure the field house is.

Any input would be helpful.


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## cda (Oct 15, 2015)

I would say no fire alarm system is required,

Because there is no building??


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## mark handler (Oct 15, 2015)

What is the construction type?

Is it covered?

Can the space under the stands be used for storage?


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## Examiner (Oct 15, 2015)

The press box is enclosed and attached to the top of the bleachers.  Is that considered a building requiring a fire alarm because it is attached to a bleacher structure with over 1,000 people?

Construction Type II-B for the bleachers and Press Box.  Open to the air not covered.  We cannot control what happens after it is built regarding storage.  The AHJ will have to monitor that.  We are doing the drawings.  There are not any structures under the bleachers other than the supports for the bleachers.


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## mark handler (Oct 15, 2015)

[F] 907.2.1 Group A.*A manual fire alarm system that activates the occupant notification system in accordance with*Section 907.5*shall be installed in Group A occupancies where the occupant load due to the assembly occupancy is 300 or more. Group A occupancies not separated from one another in accordance with*Section 707.3.9*shall be considered as a single occupancy for the purposes of applying this section.

I do not see an exception,  but, I also have never seen an alarm in a small set of bleachers


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## cda (Oct 15, 2015)

I would not require a fire alarm for bleachers only.

The other small buildings are just that small buildings and not assembly.

Kind of like requiring a system for a large outdoor pool, with bleachers and no building.

If a problem people leave/ move.


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## cda (Oct 15, 2015)

Plus if installed it seems like you would need one system for the home side and one system for the visitor side.

And where do you install the pull stations?

And where do you install the audio visuals??

And??

Call the ahj and ask them if they are going to require one!!!


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## JBI (Oct 15, 2015)

Shall be installed IN group A occupancies. They are open air bleachers. There is no 'in', there is only 'on'.

I guess you could always sprinkler them. LOL


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## mark handler (Oct 15, 2015)

Examiner said:
			
		

> The press box is enclosed and attached to the top of the bleachers.  Is that considered a building requiring a fire alarm because it is attached to a bleacher structure with over 1,000 people?Construction Type II-B for the bleachers and Press Box.  Open to the air not covered.  We cannot control what happens after it is built regarding storage.  The AHJ will have to monitor that.  We are doing the drawings.  There are not any structures under the bleachers other than the supports for the bleachers.


Talk to the AHJ


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## Francis Vineyard (Oct 16, 2015)

A 2010 thread on the same issue.  I did not find changes to the 2015.

 Gene Boecker

"been there d@#*n that.

 The code got scrambled when it went in regarding the fire alarms for these types of facilities.  I spoke with staff at ICC from all three of the legacy groups and they are unanimous in saying that the intent was never to require the manual pulls (and fire alarm system) for bleachers.  neither BOCA nor SBCCI had a requirement for the alarms.  When the UFC language was integrated with it, bleachers were far from the minds of the people writing the "compromise."  I just did a high school grandstand where the code official insisted on having a manual pull station (no standpipes - at least they were THAT reasonable).  We tried arguing out of it from all points of logic and reason but to no avail.  There are now manual pull stations in the middle of a high school football stadium which are SUCH an attractive nuisance that they turn them off when there's no use of the seats (now THAT's logical, no?).

 For the fire alarm, you can only argue reason.  Unfortunately, if you don't have a reasonable person to work with. . .  well. . .

 I'd appeal the standpipe issue.  Clearly the code doesn't require it.

 I have a code change submitted to the ICC 300 standard that would exempt fire alarms from outdoor facilities with seating under 25,000.  Although there are some minor league facilities that are smaller than that, once you get around 25,000 you also get to having multiple levels of concourses and indoor spaces like club rooms and the such.  Then it begins to make more sense.  That process starts this fall.  If successful, then I'll carry it over to the IBC.  But that won't make it into the code until the 2015 edition.  So much for being proactive. . . .

http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/commercial-building-codes/1816-manual-fire-alarm-standpipe-requirements-bleachers.html


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## cda (Oct 16, 2015)

Francis Vineyard said:
			
		

> A 2010 thread on the same issue.  I did not find changes to the 2015.  Gene Boecker
> 
> "been there d@#*n that.
> 
> ...


You might word it something like if the bleachers are not part of a building or used by occupants in the stands a fire alarm is not required.

Plus exception manual pull stations are not required spaced in the bleachers only at ground level.

And a/v's spaced per ahj


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## north star (Oct 16, 2015)

*~ : ~*



When **Examiner** goes to the AHJ, ...if he hasn't already, he may have

to retain the services of an FPE to support the position of a fire alarm

system not being needed, in spite of what the code says........Also, [ maybe ]

even obtain an interpretation from ICC on the matter.

Just sayin'...

*~ : ~*


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## steveray (Oct 16, 2015)

HUNH....Technically required...Never seen it though.  Most if not all of the sprinkler req. reference "buildings" specifically, so I see that exemption...


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## Francis Vineyard (Oct 16, 2015)

*Proponent: *Gene Boecker, Code Consultants, Inc.

*Revise as follows:*

*309.1 Fire Protection. *Fire protection systems shall be provided where required

by the building code.

*Exception: *An emergency voice/alarm communications system is not required

for outdoor bleachers and grandstands provided all of the following are

met:

1. The bleacher/grandstand has an occupant load of less than 15,000;

2. An public address system is provided;

3. Enclosed space located under seating are less than 1,000 square feet

aggregate;

4. Enclosed space immediately adjacent to seating and not under the

seating are limited to less than 3,000 square feet aggregate; and

5. All portions of the means of egress in the seating area are essentially

open to the outside.

*Reason: *The requirement for a voice alarm system with emergency power is inappropriate for

small open air venues such as high school grandstands. These facilities often have limited

electrical power and no access to generators or other approved emergency power sources by

virtue of their locations remote from the main school. Additionally, the regular use of a public

address system is more than ample for notifying spectators of an emergency condition. The

presence of an alarm system brings into question the means for activation. If there are no

sprinklers in an open air grandstand, then the activation method must be by manual (pull)

stations. Placement of manual stations in a grandstand invites mischief and vandalism.

When the voice alarm provisions were included into the building codes, the provision was

taken from the Uniform Fire Code (UFC) that had provisions for fire alarms for large occupant

load facilities (Group A, Divisions, A, 2 and 2.1) but which delineated open air facilities as a

separate division of assembly occupancies (Group A Division 4). Alarms were only required for

the former and not the latter as late as the 1991 UFC. When the UFC was restructured from the

1991 edition to the 1994 edition, the information was moved to Chapter 10 of the UFC but still

maintained the link between the when required (1007.2.2.1) and the system initiation (107.2.2.2)

as well as the emergency power requirements (1007.2.2.3). This concept was continued with the

1997 UFC which introduced the 1000 occupant threshold for the voice alarm. The only intent was

to introduce this threshold – not to expand the application to other Group A occupancies. Those

using the UFC understood this and possessed the “corporate memory” to understand the intent.

When the provisions were adopted into the International codes, this linkage was lost and

the “corporate memory” was lost to the new parts of the country. Thus, the fire alarm became

required for all Group A (assembly) occupancies including the outdoor venues which had never

had fire alarm requirements in the past. Since the introduction of the International Building Code

(IBC) and International Fire Code (IFC) this has been an item that has been dealt with on a local

level to varying degrees of success. Those jurisdictions with “corporate memory” acknowledge

that the requirement makes little sense for small grandstands and bleacher arrangements. In the

other two thirds of the country, this is applied without regard to history or rationale. It is in the

code and therefore must be applied.

Prior to the IBC and IFC coming into existence, only the Standard Fire Prevention Code

and Standard Building Code required fire alarms for all Group A occupancies. However, the

practical applications and intent of that provision allowed for exceptions to be made on a local

basis for small venues. Thus, smaller, open air venues regularly were constructed without any

fire alarm in all of the three legacy codes.

The limitations included in the exception are intended to make sure that the smaller

venues can be exempted from the voice alarm requirements while making sure that larger venues

are provided with the necessary back-up to the public address system. The threshold of 15,000

was selected because is seems to be a number around which concourses below the grandstands

begin to be used and relates to the threshold at which the aisle width used for outdoor facilities is

provided with a different factor (Table 404.5(3)). Using a common factor reduces the likelihood of

erroneous application of the standards provisions. Where individual enclosed areas exceed

1,000 square feet, sprinklers are required for those areas according to the building code. Thus,

an activation method exists for fire alarm and voice alarm initiation. The limitation of 3,000

square feet for areas away from below seating allows for larger spaces but requires that they be

located away from seating. The final item in the exception list assures that even if the circulation

areas outside the grandstands are unconditioned, if they could limit the ability of smoke to

dissipate by virtue of sides and roof, they cannot be used. A portion of the language was taken

from that used to describe the free ventilation for pedestrian bridges; more restrictive than what is

required for open parking garages.

This exception sets a threshold for something that has been variously allowed to exist or

strictly disapproved. The fact that the provision has been applied inconsistently is a clear

indication that some adjustment must be made. The proposal sets reasonable limits on the voice

alarm threshold.

*Staff note: *See attachment with code changes E142-09/10 which added Section 1028.1.1 to the

2012 IBC. Most spaces under seating are now required to be separated.

*Committee Action: *Approved as Modified

*Replace the proposal as follows:*

*309.1 Fire Protection. *Fire protection systems shall be provided where required by the building

code.

*Exception: *An emergency voice/alarm communications system for outdoor bleachers and

grandstands installed in accordance with NFPA 101 shall be permitted.

*Committee Reason: *The proposal was modified because an emergency voice/alarm

communication system is addressed in NFPA 101. Reliability and features are covered in a

practical and efficient manner. Some facilities have allowed this alternative, but enforcement has

been inconsistent. The new exception will allow these types of systems to be used and set a

reasonable threshold on the system requirements.

http://www.iccsafe.org/cs/standards/IS-BLE/Documents/2012/Draft1/PublicCommentsReceived_Dec2010.pdf


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## steveray (Oct 16, 2015)

Another astute member of the BCF doing what makes sense.....Yay Gene!


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## Examiner (Oct 16, 2015)

Thank you all for the input.  I will review this Monday.  I am taking off early for a weekend of astrophotograpy out in the boon docks.


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## Examiner (Oct 19, 2015)

On the project the AHJ Fire Marshall has flagged a few items.

Egress lighting of the exit discharge to the public way for the stadium and outer buildings.  Electrical engineer states that this will require battery type emergency lights but since we also have to have standby power for the public address system we probably will need a generator.  Occupant loading is under 8,000.  The bleachers’ Press Box, at the top row, is under the 1,000-sf rule to avoid sprinklers.  We comply with ICC 300-2012 Section 309.1 Exception #1 to omit the emergency voice/alarm but that does not do away with the manual fire alarm systems.  As I understand this the emergency voice/alarm is not the manual fire alarm system.  The manual fire alarm, if engaged, would activate the alarm horn and visual strobe light but not the voice/alarm since it is not required.  I have never seen a high school outdoor stadium with manual fire alarm pull stations or the fire alarm horn/strobe light anywhere on outdoor bleachers.

I was informed by ICC that the Press Box 1,000-sf is for the enclosing walls/ceilings area (ref: 2012-IBC 1028.6.2.3) and not the roofed or occupied floor area as I perceived it would be.  The Press Box does have roof overhangs for a camera platform at each end.  By the ICC Building and Fire Area definitions the roof overhang would be included in the building area.  That pushes the Press Box over 1,000-sf for Building/Fire Area but not if it is just the enclosing walls/ceilings.


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## cda (Oct 19, 2015)

Examiner said:
			
		

> On the project the AHJ Fire Marshall has flagged a few items.Egress lighting of the exit discharge to the public way for the stadium and outer buildings.  Electrical engineer states that this will require battery type emergency lights but since we also have to have standby power for the public address system we probably will need a generator.  Occupant loading is under 8,000.  The bleachers’ Press Box, at the top row, is under the 1,000-sf rule to avoid sprinklers.  We comply with ICC 300-2012 Section 309.1 Exception #1 to omit the emergency voice/alarm but that does not do away with the manual fire alarm systems.  As I understand this the emergency voice/alarm is not the manual fire alarm system.  The manual fire alarm, if engaged, would activate the alarm horn and visual strobe light but not the voice/alarm since it is not required.  I have never seen a high school outdoor stadium with manual fire alarm pull stations or the fire alarm horn/strobe light anywhere on outdoor bleachers.
> 
> I was informed by ICC that the Press Box 1,000-sf is for the enclosing walls/ceilings area (ref: 2012-IBC 1028.6.2.3) and not the roofed or occupied floor area as I perceived it would be.  The Press Box does have roof overhangs for a camera platform at each end.  By the ICC Building and Fire Area definitions the roof overhang would be included in the building area.  That pushes the Press Box over 1,000-sf for Building/Fire Area but not if it is just the enclosing walls/ceilings.


Ok so is the ahi requireing a fire alarm system or not??


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## Examiner (Oct 19, 2015)

He turned down the Variance request to omit the emergency voice/alarm because he calculated the press box over 1,000-sf as I did.  However, I have since learned the area is under 1,000-sf since it is the enclosing walls.  I may have to relay the Code's definition on this and go over it with him.  That will clear up the emergency voice/alarm system will not be required but not the manual fire alarms.  The manual fire alarms may have to be a written Variance request to omit.


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## ADAguy (Oct 19, 2015)

Ok, so what does the local FD have to say on this issue?


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## Examiner (Oct 19, 2015)

I will have to meet with him on the fire alarm systems.  But one thing he did mention in his written comments as being required was a cover over the ADA ramp to the press box.  My response will be the code only requires not to have accumulation of water on the walking surfaces.  Ramps will not accumulate water they are sloped and the landings and stair treads will be sloped but not over 2%.  If a roof is what he wants over the ramp then what about roofs over the ramp up to the bleachers and then the stairs.  Do we stop there and have to put roofs over the aisle stairs with in the bleachers.


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## north star (Oct 19, 2015)

*# ~ #*

What code section "requires" roofs ?



*# ~ #*


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## cda (Oct 19, 2015)

Examiner said:
			
		

> He turned down the Variance request to omit the emergency voice/alarm because he calculated the press box over 1,000-sf as I did.  However, I have since learned the area is under 1,000-sf since it is the enclosing walls.  I may have to relay the Code's definition on this and go over it with him.  That will clear up the emergency voice/alarm system will not be required but not the manual fire alarms.  The manual fire alarms may have to be a written Variance request to omit.


Just a question if it was over 1000 sq ft why would anything be required?

It is a press box not a place of assembly


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## Examiner (Oct 22, 2015)

_IBC 2012 - 1028.6.2.3 Automatic sprinklers. Enclosed areas with walls and ceilings in buildings or structures containing smoke-protected assembly seating shall be protected with an approved automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1._

_Exceptions:_

_2. Press boxes and storage facilities less than 1,000 square feet (93 m2) in area._

Therefore, if the press box is 1,000-sf or over automatic sprinklers are required.  Also if the press box or press boxes have a total aggregate area of over 500-sf they have to be accessible for the physically disable.  There are accessible exceptions regarding above the ground height.  Notice AGGREGATE wording.  ADA told me if the roof was to be used as camera platform then it had to be counted as floor area also.  Having the roof used as a camera platform makes it an occupied roof by Building Code requiring a stair.  With accessibility a ramp or elevator would be required to the roof is it is occupied.

The press box’s usage is for participation in or viewing outdoor activities and is therefore, an A-5 Occupancy Use Group.  The Press Box is mentioned in sub section 1028.6.2.3 which is the Assembly occupancy use group, Section 1028 Assembly, of Chapter 10 Means of Egress.  Somewhere in the Code I found the wording "_press box’s usage is for participation in or viewing outdoor activities _"

Also, _ICC 300-12 Section 403.1 "... The occupant load of reviewing stands and __*press boxes*__ shall be based on 5 square feet per person for standing space and 7 square feet per person for movable chair seating space . The occupant load for security, audio and camera platforms shall be based on the actual numb er of occupants."_  That loading is the same for Assembly occupants.


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## Francis Vineyard (Oct 22, 2015)

The commentary agrees with the accessibility provision with aggregate floor area but not true for the sprinklers.

"Enclosed areas such as retail areas, press boxes and concession stands require sprinklers if they are in excess of 1,000 square feet (93 m2). The 1,000- square-foot (93 m2) accessory use area is not intended to be an aggregate condition but rather per space. Thus, a press box that is 2,500 square feet (232 m2) in area would need to be subdivided into areas less than 1,000 square feet (93 m2) each in order to be below the threshold for sprinklers. There is no specific requirement for the separation of these spaces. It is assumed, however, that the separation would be a solid barrier of some type but without a required fire-resistance rating. The provision is meant to mirror that in Section 1028.6.2.3, which exempts press boxes and storage facilities less than 1,000 square feet (93 m2) in area from sprinkler requirements in smoke-protected assembly seating areas."


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## cda (Oct 22, 2015)

Examiner said:
			
		

> _IBC 2012 - 1028.6.2.3 Automatic sprinklers. Enclosed areas with walls and ceilings in buildings or structures containing smoke-protected assembly seating shall be protected with an approved automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1.__Exceptions:_
> 
> _2. Press boxes and storage facilities less than 1,000 square feet (93 m2) in area._
> 
> ...


But in the scenario you have,

 I take it the bleachers are out in the open

The press box sets on top of one of these bleachers

So you do not have any ""smoke-protected assembly seating"

And 1028.6.2.3 does not apply, so press box can be over 1000 sq ft

SMOKE-PROTECTED ASSEMBLY SEATING. Seating served by means of egress that is not subject to smoke accumulation within or under a structure.

An example of smoke-protected assembly seating is an open outdoor grandstand or an indoor arena with a smoke control system. The code has less stringent requirements for certain aspects of smoke-protected assembly seating than for seating that is not smoke protected, since occupants are subject to less hazard from the accumulation of smoke and fumes during a fire event. For example, an assembly dead-end aisle is permitted to be longer for a smoke-protected assembly area. For system requirements, see Section 909.


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 23, 2015)

It is an A-5

[F] 903.2.1.5 Group A-5.

An automatic sprinkler system shall be provided for Group A-5 occupancies in the following areas: concession stands, retail areas, press boxes and other accessory use areas in excess of 1,000 square feet (93 m2).

I do not believe it is correct to include the overhang in the sq ft calcs for the press box area as long as there are walls separating the two areas.

Can you use this section for the sprinklers thus saving money

[F] 903.3.5.1 Domestic services.

Where the domestic service provides the water supply for the automatic sprinkler system, the supply shall be in accordance with this section.

[F] 903.3.5.1.1 Limited area sprinkler systems.

Limited area sprinkler systems serving fewer than 20 sprinklers on any single connection are permitted to be connected to the domestic service where a wet automatic standpipe is not available. Limited area sprinkler systems connected to domestic water supplies shall comply with each of the following requirements:

1.	Valves shall not be installed between the domestic water riser control valve and the sprinklers.

Exception: An approved indicating control valve supervised in the open position in accordance with Section 903.4.

2.	The domestic service shall be capable of supplying the simultaneous domestic demand and the sprinkler demand required to be hydraulically calculated by NFPA 13, NFPA 13D or NFPA 13R.


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## cda (Oct 23, 2015)

But a two hour wall somewhere!!!


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## cda (Oct 23, 2015)

Enclosed areas such as retail areas, press boxes and concession stands require sprinklers if they are in excess of 1,000 square feet (93 m2). The 1,000-square-foot (93 m2) accessory use area is not intended to be an aggregate condition but rather per space. Thus, a press box that is 2,500 square feet (232 m2) in area would need to be subdivided into areas less than 1,000 square feet (93 m2) each in order to be below the threshold for sprinklers. There is no specific requirement for the separation of these spaces. It is assumed, however, that the separation would be a solid barrier of some type but without a required fire-resistance rating.


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