# Manual fire alarm 5' from door



## Rick18071 (Jun 4, 2018)

Fire alarm boxes are only next to 3 out of 5 doors. The boxes are over 5' from 2 doors. Manual fire alarms are not required in this building but they are required by the owner. Do they need to be within 5' of all exit doors? Manufacture directions?


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## Builder Bob (Jun 4, 2018)

NFPA 72 specifies within 5 feet of each exit doorway..... If I have five exit signs----- then I have five exits thus I would need five pull stations unless the pull station is mounted in the center of the door frame and is located less than 5 feet to the exit doorway- So at least three minimum if both doors being served at within 5 feet of the pull station.


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## cda (Jun 4, 2018)

Look at 17.4.7 in the 2010 edition

Let me know which edition you are using?


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## Builder Bob (Jun 4, 2018)

2016 ed.


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## cda (Jun 4, 2018)

Builder Bob said:


> 2016 ed.




Here you go


17.14.8.6 
Manual fire alarm boxes shall be mounted on both sides of grouped openings over 40 ft (12.2 m) in width, and within 5 ft (1.5 m) of each side of the grouped opening.


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## Rick18071 (Jun 5, 2018)

We are using the 2009 I-codes. This is a 1 story, 3,000 sq. ft., sprinklered, 2B construction, office (B) building.

 If the manual fire alarm boxes are even required to be 5' from exit doors if the manual fire alarm boxes are not required in this building?

IBC 907.4.2 Where a manual fire alarm system is required by another section of this code, it shall be activated by fire alarm boxes installed in accordance with Sections 907.4.2.1 through 907.4.2.5

IBC 907.4.2.1 Location............


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## cda (Jun 5, 2018)

Rick18071 said:


> We are using the 2009 I-codes. This is a 1 story, 3,000 sq. ft., sprinklered, 2B construction, office (B) building.
> 
> If the manual fire alarm boxes are even required to be 5' from exit doors if the manual fire alarm boxes are not required in this building?
> 
> ...




Apply the exception of 907.2.2. IBC

Unless someone wants pull stations

Or the 72 language


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## Builder Bob (Jun 6, 2018)

Thanks CDA - failed to turn the page and scroll up to see the first sentence == failure to follow code logic - always read a couple of sections above and below when you think you have found the answer.

God how I hate modern technology --- miss hardback copies of code.


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## cda (Jun 6, 2018)

Yep

Hate trying to read electronic


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## Rick18071 (Jun 6, 2018)

The owners want the alarm boxes but not at every exit door and they are not required in the building per code. Are the alarm boxes required to be at every exit door following the code?


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## cda (Jun 6, 2018)

Rick18071 said:


> The owners want the alarm boxes but not at every exit door and they are not required in the building per code. Are the alarm boxes required to be at every exit door following the code?






 I could see using the exception not requiring them, but install where the owner wants them. Seems to meet the intent of the code, just adding more to the system, even though they are not required.

You are the ahj, so they are giving you a system that meets code, just exceeds it in some places.


Just document it clearly what you do accept.


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## IJHumberson (Jun 18, 2018)

Builder Bob said:


> Thanks CDA - failed to turn the page and scroll up to see the first sentence == failure to follow code logic - always read a couple of sections above and below when you think you have found the answer.
> 
> God how I hate modern technology --- miss hardback copies of code.



Amen to that! And the new(ish) NFPA format of having subsections instead of "Exceptions" causes LOTS of confusion.


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## Pcinspector1 (Jun 18, 2018)

Rick18071 said:


> The owners want the alarm boxes but not at every exit door and they are not required in the building per code. Are the alarm boxes required to be at every exit door following the code?



It's a good Q. Rick. Not giving you a clear and concise answer but kinda like an obvious exit not needing an exit sign but if they install one do you make them follow the code or do you (AHJ) care if it meets the code. Does the exit light have to work? I'm saying if the exit lights there it has to be in working condition.

I'd take what the owners are giving you and say they have to work, and meet height and location requirements. But as far as how many I'd think that would be up to you (AHJ). 

This same issue could come up when changing an occupancy to a less restrictive occupancy like a Mercantile with sprinklers to a Business Occupancy not requiring them and all the requirements that come with having a building sprinklered. 

Good Q.


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## Rick18071 (Jun 19, 2018)

Well they did put more pull stations in at every door without questioning it.


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