# BCI floor joist shaved 3/8-5/8 inch at the flange



## hickoryjames008 (May 16, 2018)

I wish I were writing this as a "what would happen" scenario, but unfortunately, this is a "so this has happened" post.

Background: I have a foundation wall that was poured about 1/2" too high. As a result, the floor has a noticeable slope as does the area upstairs above.

To repair, 3-4 joists were reduced by 3/8-5/8" towards the center of 24' joist with a 14" ht spanning about 10 feet of corrected area.

I am concerned about the repairs made and wondering if I am going to have problems in the future. Does anyone have experience with shaving the flange of BCI joist? LVL was supposed to be placed along the length of the joist, but there are gas lines, electric, water lines, and hvac all in the between the joist space. 

The house has a 10-yr structural warranty.


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## mp25 (May 16, 2018)

It is possible that the joist is ok and can carry the loads. A structural engineer with the joist design information can perform a calculation to determine if the joist still has a sufficient load carrying capacity. Other than joist designation, an engineer would need to know the spacing of joists, the span, the design loads etc.


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## hickoryjames008 (May 16, 2018)

Thanks for the info!


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## cda (May 16, 2018)

hickoryjames008 said:


> I wish I were writing this as a "what would happen" scenario, but unfortunately, this is a "so this has happened" post.
> 
> Background: I have a foundation wall that was poured about 1/2" too high. As a result, the floor has a noticeable slope as does the area upstairs above.
> 
> ...




Hope the warranty is a good one!!

Maybe the joist maker, might be able to help

Or tell the builder to make it right



SO how are you involved in this 

Inspector

Owner

Builder 

Other !??????


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## hickoryjames008 (May 16, 2018)

Hello CDA,

Unfortunately, I am the owner of this hot mess. We do have an engineer coming in to inspect the work. However, because of the unforeseen ducts, pipes, and wiring, the engineers plans were not carried out which included packing the web with OSB/plywood and placing an LVL adjacent to the joist. 

In my original post, I forgot to mention that several areas on different joists are showing signs of deterioration- they have cracks/splits. It's unclear if they were there during the original build (late 2016) or a result of pulling up the subfloor. The guy who the builder hired to complete these repairs wanted to put glue and 2x4 to repair. I said we'd better wait on the engineer. Worst part is, he didn't want to work on the joist that sits high because it's the foundation wall, but that was the entire point in bringing in an engineer in the first place.


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## hickoryjames008 (May 16, 2018)

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## hickoryjames008 (May 16, 2018)

In this photo, you can see where the subfloor was forced, and subsequently bent, to fit up against that joist that sits too high.


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## JCraver (May 17, 2018)

Sad to say, but you've got a mess there.  They should have ground the concrete to make the wall right instead of shaving the joists, IMO.

Please come back and let us know what the engineer says after they do their evaluation.


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## Pcinspector1 (May 17, 2018)

That damage to the top flange of the I-Joist could have been caused by that yellow pry-bar!


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## Pcinspector1 (May 17, 2018)

When I saw that insulated foamed pipe (A/C line set?) I thought that may be a no-no. Depending on the I-joist manufacture a 1-1/2-inch hole is allowed in the web except for around a few wall bearing situations on TGI brand I-joist. 

So..might want to check that hole cut!


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## Francis Vineyard (May 17, 2018)

Recommend first contact the manufacturer representative and see if they have a fix:
https://p.widencdn.net/edv5l4/BC_EWP_Technical_Services_Map

Here's an example of a different manufacturer repair for notched (compression) flange:
file:///C:/Users/vineyardw/Desktop/TB-818.pdf

May also contact a company called Metwood Building Solutions.

Ultimately may have to re-route that pipe to make a repair.

Just remembered a situation where they ran short on delivery, smaller trusses were installed and the top flange was built up to level the floor.

Note the above are suggestions and not an endorsement.


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## hickoryjames008 (May 17, 2018)

Thank you all for your advice and steering me towards some great resources. The engineer came this morning; he has recommended to pack the web with OSB/plywood by gluing it to all the affected joists/one's that were cut down 3/8 inch, then screw a 2x6  wood board into the packed OSB board along the length of the exposed joist (all that can be seen when OSB is removed), and to just cut around the utilities as best possible. 

While the OSB was off, I took a moment to look down the rabbit hole this morning- the hollow space between the floors where the utilities sit- and noticed that some of the screws missed the joistflange all together or splintered the flange from the sides when the original OSB was placed . Does anyone know if this would have a negative impact?


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## Pcinspector1 (May 17, 2018)

Construction adhesive and screws should do the trick. I would spray paint or mark the existing sheeting so you don't run a screw into the insulated pipe (waterline?) depending on the length of fastener you use.

Also I have seen 5/4x6" treated YP used for a sill plate because the wall was a smidgen to high, gives you a 1/4-inch.


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## Francis Vineyard (May 17, 2018)

hickoryjames008 said:


> noticed that some of the screws missed the joistflange all together or splintered the flange from the sides when the original OSB was placed . Does anyone know if this would have a negative impact?



Generally it depends on certain circumstances for shear or lateral restraint but not likely. I've been told eventually all floors will squeak.

https://www.weyerhaeuser.com/application/files/3514/9504/1502/1485215259_9009.pdf


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## Pcinspector1 (May 17, 2018)

We had a service call in regards to a squeaky I-joist issue. When the 350-lb person walked down the hall way the floor squeaked like a rubber ducky. The noise was from the bottom sill plate nails sliding up and down on the 3/4-inch floor sheeting. It was suggested to pull the base board off and run 3" screws down through the drywall edge through the BP into the sheeting and try to catch an I-joist. It seamed to work the complaint went away.


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## cda (May 17, 2018)

hickoryjames008 said:


> Thank you all for your advice and steering me towards some great resources. The engineer came this morning; he has recommended to pack the web with OSB/plywood by gluing it to all the affected joists/one's that were cut down 3/8 inch, then screw a 2x6  wood board into the packed OSB board along the length of the exposed joist (all that can be seen when OSB is removed), and to just cut around the utilities as best possible.
> 
> While the OSB was off, I took a moment to look down the rabbit hole this morning- the hollow space between the floors where the utilities sit- and noticed that some of the screws missed the joistflange all together or splintered the flange from the sides when the original OSB was placed . Does anyone know if this would have a negative impact?




So any of your neighbors use the same builder???


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## hickoryjames008 (May 17, 2018)

cda said:


> So any of your neighbors use the same builder???



Yes, the entire subdivision- this is not a small, custom home builder. In fact, they build all over the country under different brand names. Fortunately for my neighbors, I am the only one who appears to have these structural/foundation issues, which also include repair of 2 cracks on the exterior wall of a poured, daylight basement.


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## cda (May 17, 2018)

Nice

Love professionals


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## CodeWarrior (Jun 1, 2018)

The Boise Cascade has engineers on staff. Reach out to them for suggestions on repairs. I would imagine they have seen this before.


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## Hugh Turner (Jun 27, 2018)

I am by no means an inspector nor an expert. Howerever I am going to be my on GC for our house. It just so happens I am doing my research on foundations and I joist  right  now. Our foundation will be ICF with I joist.  

From what I say in that one picture of the a/c line that is a clear viloation of the hole charts list on the apa website and all manufactures installation  manuals. 

I have to ask why the foundation was not built per drawing?


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## cda (Jun 27, 2018)

Hugh Turner said:


> I am by no means an inspector nor an expert. Howerever I am going to be my on GC for our house. It just so happens I am doing my research on foundations and I joist  right  now. Our foundation will be ICF with I joist.
> 
> From what I say in that one picture of the a/c line that is a clear viloation of the hole charts list on the apa website and all manufactures installation  manuals.
> 
> I have to ask why the foundation was not built per drawing?





Welcome Hugh

Good luck with the build!!!!


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## Hugh Turner (Jun 27, 2018)

cda said:


> Welcome Hugh
> 
> Good luck with the build!!!!


Thank you.  I have learned alot in 2 years of resesrch and design.
It will be 1500sq Log.  NO I not doing  the erection. The log builder will  up to dry in and also be my advisor.


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