# Ramp or stairs



## Mech (Jan 15, 2010)

IBC 2006 & ANSI A117.1

When and where can an accessible stair be used instead of an accessible ramp to travel between levels in a building?

Thanks.


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## mtlogcabin (Jan 15, 2010)

Re: Ramp or stairs

NEVER

ADA definition

Accessible Route.

A continuous unobstructed path connecting all accessible elements and spaces of a building or facility. Interior accessible routes may include corridors, floors, ramps, elevators, lifts, and clear floor space at fixtures. Exterior accessible routes may include parking access aisles, curb ramps, crosswalks at vehicular ways, walks, ramps, and lifts.


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## Mech (Jan 15, 2010)

Re: Ramp or stairs

Forgive my stupidity, but how can accessible stairs even exist :?:   See ANSI section 504, page 41.

Can they only exist outside the building?

It seems the more I read, the less I know.


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## mtlogcabin (Jan 15, 2010)

Re: Ramp or stairs

You are confusing an accessible route with an accessible set of stairs

An accessible route would be a route which is primarily designed to be used by those in a wheelchair

An accessible set of stairs could be part of the circulation path design

CIRCULATION PATH. An exterior or interior way of passage from one place to another for pedestrians.

1104.5 Location.

Accessible routes shall coincide with or be located in the same area as a general circulation path. Where the circulation path is interior, the accessible route shall also be interior. Where only one accessible route is provided, the accessible route shall not pass through kitchens, storage rooms, restrooms, closets or similar spaces.

1104.4 Exception 1 thru 4 pretty much spell out when an accessible route (ramp) is NOT required


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## brudgers (Jan 15, 2010)

Re: Ramp or stairs



			
				Mech said:
			
		

> IBC 2006 & ANSI A117.1When and where can an accessible stair be used instead of an accessible ramp to travel between levels in a building?
> 
> Thanks.


Aggregate area of all levels and mezzanines not on an accessible route < 3000 sf.

For ADA any level or maezznaine < 3000 sf.

Some restrictions apply.


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## JBI (Jan 16, 2010)

Re: Ramp or stairs

mtlog - Are you channelling Gene while he's laid up?


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## jar546 (Jan 17, 2010)

Re: Ramp or stairs



			
				brudgers said:
			
		

> Mech said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Aggregate area of all levels and mezzanines not on an accessible route < 3000 sf.

For ADA any level or maezznaine < 3000 sf.

Some restrictions apply.

Yes, I agree and have a project exactly like this where the DP has offices on a mezzanine of 2,900 square feet.  There are 2 sets of accessible stairwells that serve this area.


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## jar546 (Jan 17, 2010)

Re: Ramp or stairs

Now what about a set of stairs to an unfinished basement used for storage in a commercial structure?


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## mtlogcabin (Jan 17, 2010)

Re: Ramp or stairs

What does finished or unfinished have to do with it?


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## jar546 (Jan 17, 2010)

Re: Ramp or stairs



			
				mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> What does finished or unfinished have to do with it?


I suppose nothing if it is less than 3,000 square feet.  I was just being descriptive.

Then again, the 3,000 foot rule would not apply if the basement contained an office for a health care provider.


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## mtlogcabin (Jan 17, 2010)

Re: Ramp or stairs

Agree


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## vegas paul (Jan 17, 2010)

Re: Ramp or stairs

Perhaps the confusion is due to the similar wording:  Accessible Route vs. Accessible Means of Egress.  Two different things entirely, and yes, the latter can include stairs!


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## brudgers (Jan 17, 2010)

Re: Ramp or stairs



			
				jar546 said:
			
		

> Now what about a set of stairs to an unfinished basement used for storage in a commercial structure?


I'm not aware of any exception.


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## brudgers (Jan 17, 2010)

Re: Ramp or stairs



			
				jar546 said:
			
		

> mtlogcabin said:
> 
> 
> 
> > What does finished or unfinished have to do with it?


I suppose nothing if it is less than 3,000 square feet.  I was just being descriptive.

Then again, the 3,000 foot rule would not apply if the basement contained an office for a health care provider.

All levels of a health care provider's office must be accessible even if treatment is not provided on an inaccessible level.

In fact, to go beyond the code, when a health care provider fills out the paperwork to be approved by insurance companies there are questions directly relating to this.


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## C & A (Feb 8, 2010)

Re: Ramp or stairs

I have a related question:  In an assembly occupancy building with 2 required exits, the 1st floor is 5 ft above grade due to flood zone.  Main entrance has a ramp for access/egress.  Can the second exit have stairs from 1st floor to grade, or does it have to have a Lift or a ramp?


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## north star (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Ramp or stairs

*C & A,*

*Welcome to the forum!  * 

*Must be an accessible lift or ramp ( see Section 1105.1 in the`06 IBC: )* *" ...at least 60 percent of all public entrances shall be accessible."*

*.*


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## C & A (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Ramp or stairs

Ooops, I should have clarified -- I am in California, using 2007 CBC.  CBC has completely re-written Chapter 11.  Do you know if there is a similar clause in Chapter 11B?  Thanks!


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## Gene Boecker (Feb 9, 2010)

Re: Ramp or stairs

Hi C&A,

In CA, all entrances must be accessible (1114B.1.3).  It sounds like you're talking about an exit though that is not also an entrance.  If the building/space requires two means of egress, then the second exit must be accessible.  You'll need to look at Sections 1007.1 and 1007.3 to see if these particular stairs qualify.


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