# Rape-Proof Stairs (?)



## JBI

This is a new one for me, but my daughter attends college at SUNY Oneonta, on campus there is a set of stairs that are more like a series of landings. Each is about 3' - 4' in depth and a rise of +/- 6" between, total about 10 - 12 treads. They are also sloped slghtly forward.

*Without* debating the possible code violations (please!), the student body has been referring to these as 'Rape-Proof Stairs', with the explaination that the rhythm of the stairs is designed to break the stride of a male pursuing a female (intended) victim allowing her to escape. The theory being the obvious difference in the average male stride versus the average female stride.

I will note for the record that these are the ONLY stairs on campus with this peculiar design.

Sounds (and looks) to me like a Landscape Architect or Building Architect was looking for a nice entry feature to the buildings' courtyard. What do you say, has anyone ever heard of 'rape-proof stairs' before?


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## north star

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)

*John,*

*I thought that I had heard of most things, and now you introduce*

*a new one.    No, I have never heard of these type of designed*

*stairs,  or of this type of built environment.*

*Maybe one of our esteemed colleagues on here will have some*

*insights.     Rick A., are you out there?   *


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## Builder Bob

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)

Sounds like somebody is blowing smoke.....

Landings (or steps) sloped to prevent water accumulations (or free standing water to ice up)

Dpending upon the code that this feature is constructed will determine whether it has to meeet the current standards for stairways or not.

For example - stairs were clearly defined in the SBCCI - require 4 or more risers and stair geometry had to be the old 7/11 rule or the sum of two risers plus one tread could not be more than 25". If it didn't meet these requirements, it wasn't a stairway per sec. Therefore, alot of building entrances used the elongated series of elevation changes to keep from having to meet the stairway/handrail/ guard requirements.


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## mtlogcabin

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)

John hopefully you have raised a daughter smart enough to not believe this. Tell to be carefull and always watch her surrounding :!:

PS

It just proves my signature

If you buy the statement you buy the underlying assumption


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## rbrunk

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)

I have never heard of 'rape proof stairs' but I have seen some cast in place ones that left me feeling less than amorous.


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## JBI

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)

Keep them coming...

I don't think my duaghter was too sold on it.      They're only in one location on campus. The whole place is like a small village in a hilly area, there are stairs everywhere. My daughter kept saying 'Yeah right, because this is the only place on campus anyone ever got raped, right?'.

Not sure if it's an upperclass prank, urban legend, or urban legend born of an upperclass prank.

Anyone else? I'm looking for a large response to help her prove this one wrong.

B Bob - "Without debating the possible code violations (please!)"  I said *please*.  

mtlog - She is _always_ aware of her surroundings. And she's pretty tough too.


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## peach

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)

would they not also slow the advance of the intended victim?

Crimes (including rape) are the reason there isn't a stop switch in modern elevators.


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## FM William Burns

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)

JD:

Never heard or seen anything like described.......wow      Glad your daughter is tough and hopefully (based on previous discussion) you taught her a few moves and strikes.  While visiting campus' for my daughter's interest.  The one I was most impressed with is IPFW and their safety scheme.  All dorms are newer sprinkled apartments where roomates share a common kitchen and living room only.  All lobbies, hallways and stair landings including assent and decent are close circuit monitored and the manned police sub station is in the center of the housing courtyard. At no point along travel paths are students farther than 100' of an emergency panic station.


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## RJJ

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)

:!: Get her a large hat pin and in-struck her to go for the eyes! Must make them mad dog mean before they leave home! Also, instruct her regarding date rape! Never leave her glass unattended or allow someone to bring her something to drink that she has not witnessed being poured.

These are some sad times :!:


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## jpranch

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)

Keep your wits about you and keep packin. But if you pull it out, smokin is the only way. Never bluff.


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## Mac

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)

Gotta be an urban legend - wouldn't the "stairs" slow the victim also?

More likely just an exterior design feature.


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## mtlogcabin

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)



> I'm looking for a large response to help her prove this one wrong


. If she wants to prove this wrong just have a couple of male track stars chase a few female students up the stairs and see if they can catch them.

 "common sense" tells you this just ain't true

jp has the best advise even on campus


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## Examiner

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)

I just will offer some input on the old stair riser / tread formula that was in the SBC.

I was retained some years ago as an expert witness and reviewed an exterior stair made from brick.  The riser was a full soldier course (8” nominal) and yes someone got injured on this step.  The SBC at the time was a max riser of 7 1/2" for commercial work.  The AHJ did not require a Professional seal as required by their adobted Code.

What I found was the formula used in the Code is about 300-years old and came from the French as I recall.  It was based on the walking stride of people.  Well people are taller now and as far as I know there may not been any additional studies to disprove the old formula.

Under the IBC the riser can be 4” min to 7” max and the tread 11” min to whatever you want for a tread.  The max riser and minimum tread are also the limits in ADA.


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## Gene Boecker

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)

I read the post title and kept wondering how anyone could rape a set of stairs.

Mythinks the student body is trying to name things for the sake of identifying weird from typical.

And, BB, I don't think that they were "blowing" smoke.  Someone inhaled!

 :lol:


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## Yikes

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)

FM Burns - I've worked on a fair amount of student housing for various institutions.  Most of the housing has cameras that go straight to a video recorder, for evidence gathering after an incident.  They purposefully do NOT do live monitoring of their video feed, due to potential liability; i.e. if the person monitoring the cameras turns away and fails to see/stop a crime, will the crime victim sue the institution for negligence?

The "Code Blue" stations work great, but don't assume all the camera systems are doing real-time monitoring, unless you've specifically heard this from the campus security personnel.


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## FM William Burns

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)

Yikes: Being the type of person I am......I don't assume much and thanks for the advice


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## JBI

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)

So, the concensus seems to be 'urban legend' or 'prank'. I had a feeling that was the case.

The whole theory hinged on the difference in stride between male and female, problem is not all men have the same stride and not all women have the same stride.

My daughter for example is just under 5'11", and can easily keep up with me (6'3") when walking whereas my son at 6' cannot (she actually has longer legs than he).

Her roommate at 5' 7" or so has a much different stride than my daughter.

Any other opinions?


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## FM William Burns

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)

JD:

Outside the obvious of addressing the concern with (facilities or physical plant maintenance, code enforcement division etc.) you may want to check into the actual jurisdictional agency for colleges and universities (ours is the state fire marshal’s office) where state certified inspectors are not employed who have to follow state rules for colleges and universities for matters concerning fire protection and egress (if these stairs are part of the egress system or level of exit discharge).  They may be able to offer an explanation as to how and why these were approved.  In my experience colleges and universities are autonomous regarding building codes with exception to fire safety, protection and egress.  NY may be similar?  Just a thought!



> NEW AND EXISTING SCHOOL, COLLEGE, AND UNIVERSITY FIRE SAFETY(By authority conferred on the state fire safety board by section 3c  of  Act
> 
> No. 207 of the Public Acts of 1941, as amended, and Executive  Reorganization
> 
> Order No. 1997-2, being §§29.3c and 29.451 of the Michigan Compiled Laws)
> 
> PART 1.  GENERAL PROVISIONS
> 
> R 29.1901   Applicability.
> 
> Rule 1. These rules apply to all new  and  existing  school,  college,  and
> 
> university facilities used for instructional purposes  as  defined  in  these
> 
> rules.
> 
> R 29.1902   Life safety code; adoption by reference.
> 
> Rule 2. The provisions of chapters 1 to 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 26, 27, 32, and 33
> 
> of national fire protection  association  pamphlet  no.  101,  1997  edition,
> 
> entitled "Life Safety Code," are adopted by reference as part of these rules.
> 
> R 29.1903   Definitions.
> 
> Rule 3. As used in these rules:
> 
> (g) "Level of exit discharge" means a floor or floors of  a  building  that exit directly to the outside at grade.  A floor that is not more than 4  feet above or below grade at exit discharge is a level of exit discharge.
> 
> (k) "Remodeling" means an alteration or change of fire-rated  assembly,  or the installation of new equipment required by these rules.
> 
> R 29.1904   Plans and specifications.
> 
> Rule 4. (1) A school, college,  university,  or  designated  representative
> 
> shall submit plans and specifications to the office of fire  safety  for  all
> 
> projects that involve construction, remodeling, or an addition.
> 
> Construction shall not commence until office of fire safety approval has been
> 
> received in writing.


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## JBI

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)

F M - It's a State school (SUNY Oneonta), NYS DOES require code compliance at State owned facilities.

The 'stairs' in question are on the exterior and well away from the building proper, so not an 'egress component' as far as the codes go. They are one of several options when travelling toward or away from the building. Due to the incline, a simple paved path would have been tough to walk up.

It's a nice feature, and the geometry alone would place it outside the code as well - that's why I qualified the OP...   

I gave my daughter a copy of the responses to take back to college with her, I'm sure she enjoyed showing them to her friends (she's a smart a$$ like her Dad).


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## FM William Burns

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)

No...say it isn't so :lol:


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## JBI

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)

:twisted:


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## JMORRISON

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)Design assumption for R-proof stair.  Only effective going up stair.  Shorter female goes to ground and falls in front of next riser.  Taller male attacker falls and impacts toe of next riser losing minimum of three teeth.rp stair.JPG[/attachment:37ai8ypz]







/monthly_2010_05/572953b3c8475_rpstair.JPG.82687f0102caccb7160b3592196c66b9.JPG


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## JBI

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)

JM - Not to burst your bubble or anything... my daughter is 5' 11"...     Cute pictogram though.


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## RickAstoria

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)



			
				John Drobysh said:
			
		

> This is a new one for me, but my daughter attends college at SUNY Oneonta, on campus there is a set of stairs that are more like a series of landings. Each is about 3' - 4' in depth and a rise of +/- 6" between, total about 10 - 12 treads. They are also sloped slghtly forward. *Without* debating the possible code violations (please!), the student body has been referring to these as 'Rape-Proof Stairs', with the explaination that the rhythm of the stairs is designed to break the stride of a male pursuing a female (intended) victim allowing her to escape. The theory being the obvious difference in the average male stride versus the average female stride.
> 
> I will note for the record that these are the ONLY stairs on campus with this peculiar design.
> 
> Sounds (and looks) to me like a Landscape Architect or Building Architect was looking for a nice entry feature to the buildings' courtyard. What do you say, has anyone ever heard of 'rape-proof stairs' before?


How is that? It got to be the biggest line of B.S. I've ever heard. I call it b.s. because I'm a man and I can change my stride and this is 3'-4' depth which I can run up easily. I think it is really just a means to bypass handrail requirements or they just want gradual inclination stairs. The leg stride deal and 'rape proof' stairs b.s. is just that... b.s.


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## RickAstoria

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)



			
				JMORRISON said:
			
		

> Design assumption for R-proof stair.  Only effective going up stair.  Shorter female goes to ground and falls in front of next riser.  Taller male attacker falls and impacts toe of next riser losing minimum of three teeth.rp stair.JPG[/attachment:240uuv9h]


There is something called arms and that can be avoided. That is being assumptious that male attacker is going to fall like an idiot and not throw arm out to protect from fall but I don't see how it really makes it 'rape proof'.


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## JBI

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)

Rick - I think it's called 'humor'... DOH ! :?


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## RickAstoria

Re: Rape-Proof Stairs (?)



			
				John Drobysh said:
			
		

> Rick - I think it's called 'humor'... DOH ! :?


Sorry, I was missing the humor other then an idiot who would think this is 'rape proof'.


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