# medical grade wiring?



## JPohling (Jul 23, 2015)

National orthotics provider/manufacturer looking at a TI in one of the office buildings that we work in.  We advised them that they would need medical grade wiring in the "exam/fitting" rooms.  2013 CEC.  This is not a medical office building. The user claims that they are like a glorified shoe store and they believe the medical grade wiring is not required.  What would be your interpretation?  This is a B occupancy not an M.


----------



## north star (Jul 23, 2015)

*& ~ &*



JP,

How does the AHJ define Orthotic Care ?......Medically, or like the

"glorified shoe store" analogy ?

Article 517 [ from the `14 NEC ] does not specify Orthotics

as a Health Care Facility........IMO, ...if the AHJ can accurately

define & support that definition in the NEC [ i.e. - Article &

section ], then they may have a basis to require the medical

grade wiring & devices.

Does an Orthotic Clinic have electrical devices that will come

in to contact with patients ?

If it were me making the decision,  I would want to know

more about the fitting of any devices for the patients,

before I would require medical grade wiring & devices.

*& ~ &*


----------



## steveray (Jul 23, 2015)

JP...There is a good article by Fred Hartwell I think on HC wiring if you can google it or PM me and I can probably email it....And you may have to go to your state regs to see what they define as health care. Here we call it for eye doctors if they are doing exams, but not just glasses (I can't remember the difference between optometrist or opthamologist)

Still looking for something I had from the DPH....


----------



## JBI (Jul 23, 2015)

What is the intended purpose of medical grade wiring?


----------



## north star (Jul 23, 2015)

*7 ~ 7 ~ 7*

In performing some reading on Orthotics,  ...there are devices called

"Powered Orthoses that can produce electrical stimulation to patients

when installed on them........I do not know if this electrical stimulation is

provided thru the premise wiring, or by battery powered supply in

the orthoses themselves.............If by premise wiring;  which I

suspect is likely, ...then IMO, "Yes, medical grade wiring" would

be required.

Here is a link from the 2005 IEEE regarding "Powered Lower

Limb Orthoses":

*http://kines.umich.edu/sites/webservices.itcs.umich.edu.drupal.kinesprod/files/resource_files/Sawicki2005.pdf*





*7 ~ 7 ~ 7*


----------



## steveray (Jul 23, 2015)

JBI said:
			
		

> What is the intended purpose of medical grade wiring?


The short of it (pun fully intended) is redundant grounding.....but it is a bit more complicated than that..


----------



## JBI (Jul 23, 2015)

steveray - Sounds like critical equipment protection? Not so sure the orthotics guys fit that mold (pun also intended...).


----------



## mtlogcabin (Jul 23, 2015)

> "Powered Orthoses that can produce electrical stimulation to patientswhen installed on them.


How is it different then a TENS unit in a physical therapy or chiropractic office?

I think you need more info on the equipment providing the "electrical stimulation" to help with documenting your decision.


----------



## fatboy (Jul 23, 2015)

Are they sitting/laying in a chair that is electrical powered for movement? Then I say yes........


----------



## BSSTG (Jul 23, 2015)

You guys are real punny.

BS


----------



## north star (Jul 23, 2015)

*~ ! ~*



I agree that more information on the level & depth of services provided

at the new "B occupancy" tenant will provide is critical in this decision

making process........Simply because the Occupancy designation is a

"B",  does not limit what type of device might be applied to,  or come

in to contact with their patients.

If the proposed new tenant will be "manufacturing" something to

customize to each patient, ...what are the limits of that manufacturing ?

Also, ...if an approval is granted for Non-medical grade wiring & devices;

in the Examination Rooms \ Areas, ...who's to say they won't alter their

manufacturing process down-the-road, to meet the needs of their

patients,  and have some type of tethered \ connected electrical

orthoses connected to a patient ?



*~ ! ~*


----------



## steveray (Jul 23, 2015)

See the definitions of patient care area and health care facilities in the NEC....I can't copy and paste them...And then look at what your state defines as health care facilities. It includes psychiatric, so orthotic might not be a stretch.


----------



## cda (Jul 23, 2015)

https://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/NEC-HTML/HTML/Article-517-Healthcare-Facilities~20040326.php


----------



## JPohling (Jul 23, 2015)

Thanks guys!  The floor plan screams medical office.  I will stand by my recommendation to use the medical wiring.


----------



## cda (Jul 23, 2015)

So does an

Eye exam room for glasses need med wire

Chiropractor room need med wire

Physical therapy clinic need med wire

Etc


----------



## north star (Jul 24, 2015)

*# = # = #*



cda,

In each of your Exam Room scenarios, ...what type, if 

any, ...electrically operated or connected devices \ equipment

\ furniture \ Exam Tables or Chairs will come in to contact

with the patients ?.......Also, ...what one "patient care provider"

offers as treatment; and their use of treatment devices or

equipment may not be the same as others.

It is similar to the construction industry, in that,  not all

construction is performed in a safe & compliant manner.

The same applies to any profession !

IMO, ...I believe that ***JPohling*** has justification to

recommend the Medical Grade wiring...........He may not get

it, but I believe that he should at least recommend it.

We have provided him with enough information to

substantiate his position.



*# = # = #*


----------



## JPohling (Jul 24, 2015)

Also this group does more than orthotics.  Prosthetic's are a major portion of their business.  I can see them changing things up easily to go that route.  Also this suite is clearly planned as a medical suite.  When this tenant vacates it is highly likely that another medical user will occupy the space.


----------



## MASSDRIVER (Jul 24, 2015)

I wonder what the cost increase is. Reading Mike Holt's information shows significant expense comparing a standard commercial type receptacle to a medical type, but they are not required everywhere, just in treatment rooms.

I would give a SWAG  of 4 times the cost per medical outlet, for however many exam rooms they have.

Anyone know anything further?

Brent.


----------



## chris kennedy (Jul 25, 2015)

Hospital grade devices are not required in treatment rooms. Right now here 250' 12/2 MC is around $95, 250' of 12/2 MC-HCF is around $150. The adder for treatment rooms is around 30%.


----------



## spector51 (Sep 10, 2015)

just a quick answer here I can look it up when I get a second but I believe the answer lies if they are doing an invasive medical procedure like operation, colonoscopy, etc.  the medical wiring issue kicks in.  This seems to be in keeping with the majority of the comments posted here.


----------

