# Double door swing



## mtlogcabin (Feb 22, 2010)

While traveling a couple of weeks ago I stayed in a 4 story motel down south and the door swing in the corridor did not "feel" right. I can not find a code section that the installation is not code compliance.

Built in 1995 Branson Missouri

You exit the elevator and step into the corridor. About ten feet on each side of the elevator is a pair of doors held open by mag holders one leaf swings one direction the other leaf in the oppisite direction which would create the elevator lobby when closed. If one exit stair is blocked you have to go through the lobby to reach the second set of stairs. There in is what I see as a problem. One of the doors does not swing in the direction of travel if staying on the right side of corridor. Is this a problem? From day one we are taught to walk on the right side and I can see a pile up of people in this case during an emergency.

Any thoughts?


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## Coug Dad (Feb 22, 2010)

Re: Double door swing

The code does not require that the right side of double doors swing in the direction of egress travel.  We try to do that whenever possible.  However, sometimes there are other obstructions which force the left side door to swing in the direction of egress.


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## texasbo (Feb 22, 2010)

Re: Double door swing

Deleted


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## LGreene (Feb 22, 2010)

Re: Double door swing

I just replied to this post but it disappeared so I'll try to recreate it.  If you see virtually the same post twice, that's why.  Here goes...

What you're describing is called a double egress pair.  Typically both leaves are RH (right hand), which means that as you face the opening from either side, the door on your right opens away from you.  I think you're saying that this elevator lobby had a LH double egress pair, so the door on your right opens toward you.  I have occasionally seen LH (left hand) double egress pairs on plans, usually drawn by European architects but sometimes because of an obstruction that would prevent the use of a RH pair.

I have not seen anything in any of the US codes that would require RH double egress pairs, but I remember seeing something in one of the Canadian codes.  I think it was the 1995 National Building Code of Canada.  I can try to find it again if someone wants me to.

I did have a situation on a school project where the designer used a LH double egress pair because a RH would have interfered with another door.  The local code official made them remove the LH pair and redesign the area so a RH pair could be used.  I don't think he was referencing any particular code requirement, but he didn't think it would be intuitive for the kids.

- Lori


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## Coug Dad (Feb 22, 2010)

Re: Double door swing

texasbo

The left side door swings in the direction of egress travel, just not the right side.  Not ideal, but sometimes necessary, and allowed.


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## cda (Feb 22, 2010)

Re: Double door swing

why to you have two doors in a corridor and each swings the opposite way???

and the answer is so you do not have a dead end corrdior issue!!!!!!!!!!!

you are able to hit two exits and you do not have a door swing issue!!!!


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## Coug Dad (Feb 22, 2010)

Re: Double door swing

The most common application of double egress doors is in healthcare occupancies to subdivide the floor into separate smoke compartments.  Double doors are required and one is required to swing in each direction.


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## Big Mac (Feb 22, 2010)

Re: Double door swing

This situation is very common for "horizontal exit" conditions.  The code very clearly allows the use of horizontal exits as one element of a code complinat exiting system.

When this configuration is used, the at least one door swings in the direction of exit travel no matter which side it is approached from.  In these situations it is very common for an occupant load in excess of 50 on each side of the fire wall or fire barrier wall.  In each case there would be an exit door that swings in the direction of exit travel.


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## cda (Feb 22, 2010)

Re: Double door swing

Forgot about a horizontal exit conditon, maybe they had to subdivide the building for some reason

along with using double swing to avoid dead end corridor issue


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 22, 2010)

Re: Double door swing



> I think you're saying that this elevator lobby had a LH double egress pair, so the door on your right opens towards you.


Correct one set would have been a LH the other side of the elevator lobby a RH. I checked and it was that way on the top 3 floors. The left side swinging in the direction of travel just does not "feel" right but I can't find a code section that would make it non-compliant.  

The only reason I could see for the pair of doors was to create an elevator lobby.


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## Mule (Feb 22, 2010)

Re: Double door swing



			
				cda said:
			
		

> Forgot about a horizontal exit conditon, maybe they had to subdivide the building for some reasonalong with using double swing to avoid dead end corridor issue


How can a double swing door avoid a dead end corridor issue..........unless the room is allowed to be used as a path of egress to another exit.

Is that what you are saying?

Because if you have a door at the end of a corridor, 20 feet or more, it wouldn't matter which way the doors swing..........right?


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## cda (Feb 22, 2010)

Re: Double door swing

""If one exit stair is blocked you have to go through the lobby to reach the second set of stairs."""

so you can go either way thorugh the elevator lobby to reach and exit?????

if so then the one door has to swing one way and the other has to swing the opposite way...


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## cda (Feb 22, 2010)

Re: Double door swing

How can a double swing door avoid a dead end corridor issue..........unless the room is allowed to be used as a path of egress to another exit.

Is that what you are saying?

YES

or if you have a long corridor and side A does not want side B to come into thier area, except for exiting purposes they put a door in the middle of the corridor, and if there is not opposite swing you can create a dead end corridor.


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## TJacobs (Feb 22, 2010)

Re: Double door swing

Bet you that they installed it incorrectly and nobody caught it.


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## Gene Boecker (Feb 22, 2010)

Re: Double door swing

Nah!  They probably planned it that way so the doors would swing against a wall or something instead of hanging in the middle of an alcove or project into the elevator lobby or something.


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## syarn (Feb 22, 2010)

Re: Double door swing

2006 ibc section 1008.1.2 door swing in direction of egress serving occupant load of 50 or more...


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## Plans Approver (Feb 22, 2010)

Re: Double door swing

The doors were intended to go to Great Britain or Australia. Since they drive on the wrong side of the road, they probably walk on the wrong side of the corridor.


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## FM William Burns (Feb 22, 2010)

Re: Double door swing



> The left side swinging in the direction of travel just does not "feel" right


Because I didn’t have anything else to do I tried to envision it which didn’t go so well........... so I sketched it and came to the conclusion of agreeing with TJ and Plans Approver but since one of the leafs swings in the direction of travel it fly’s as long as they have a illuminated directional exit sign over the leaf that swings in the direction of travel:


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 23, 2010)

Re: Double door swing

FMWB

That is exactly the layout.


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## cda (Feb 23, 2010)

Re: Double door swing

If there is not a fire wall there to subdivide the building, then the double swing should be so there is no dead end corridor issue.


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## TJacobs (Feb 23, 2010)

Re: Double door swing

They put it in that way to keep people on their toes...


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## FM William Burns (Feb 23, 2010)

Re: Double door swing

I suspect that during the conceptual phase the junior design tech drew it up and the DP of record didn’t question it because he/she is from Romania  :lol: and whomever in Nashville II who did the review for the jurisdiction didn’t question it.

Personally, this would have made a comment on our review report to the DP with copies to the General and Owner (despite being technically compliant) with citation reference to a couple of human behavior studies on Hotel Occupancy Egress during fire incidents I have gathered back when I worked on low level exit signs and floor proximity egress path markings for these occupancies during a project.


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