# number of showers for health club



## linnrg (Aug 10, 2015)

Does anyone have a guide for determining the number of shower stalls for a health club?  facility will include weights, tracks, zumba, excercise equip, etc. no pool.

We have a unusual reference to the table 29A of the 1997 UBC but I can argue for newer versions.

Current UPC does not include showers in their tables

I am dealing with a facility that is around 22,000 sf


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## north star (Aug 10, 2015)

*$ ~ $ ~ $*

linnrg,

What is the Occupant Load for your application ?

*$ ~ $ ~ $*


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## steveray (Aug 10, 2015)

I believe from another thread on here that UPC uses it's own fixture count tables that are different from egress OL numbers, but I don't have the UPC..


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## linnrg (Aug 10, 2015)

depending upon the developers decision the Occupant load could be at the low end 300 and the high end 411 if he develops all of the space into the health club.

So yes the UPC has a table (4.1) but refers the occupant load from the "building code". Each code does not mention the number of showers except under residential types of occupancy's.  The IPC gets its fixture table  from chapter 29 of the IBC and somewhat similar but here in Alaska the State has a direct reference to the table 29-A as printed in the UBC 1997.  Our plumbing is UPC not IPC.

Yes the UPC does use the same occupant load but I have not found the shower requirements under the IBC, the UPC or the older UBC so I was looking to see if anyone had similar issues and how well they worked it out.


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## mark handler (Aug 10, 2015)

Dressing rooms and Showers are not required in health clubs. That is why they are not in the tables. But if you have them they must be accessible.


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## north star (Aug 10, 2015)

*# : # : #*

linnrg,

I looked in the `09 UPC  & the `09 UBC, and you are correct........There is no
requirement to use them, however, as ***mark handler*** has pointed out, if
you DO have them, then each shower must Accessible & equipped as such.

While the Occ. Load may be between 300 and 411, do you; or the developer,
have a realistic number of persons that might actually be using the facility
at any given time [  i.e. - peak use times  ] ?

I have no basis for using this number, but 1 per 50 might be a place to start.
That would be 6 - 9 Accessible showers, ...maybe even less if the AHJ
will "sign off" on the number.

Not much help I know, but it is a start.........Maybe someone else will chime in
with some real world experience.

*# : # : #*


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## JCraver (Aug 11, 2015)

If there are no building code/plumbing code minimums to go by, you might check with the Health Dept.?  I know nothing about Alaska, but here in the Peoples Republic of IL, the Dept. of Public Health is into _*everything*_...  I'm sure they've got a standard for just this occasion.  And if they don't, they'll be happy to make one up just as soon as you call them.


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## cda (Aug 11, 2015)

linnrg said:
			
		

> Does anyone have a guide for determining the number of shower stalls for a health club?  facility will include weights, tracks, zumba, excercise equip, etc. no pool.We have a unusual reference to the table 29A of the 1997 UBC but I can argue for newer versions.
> 
> Current UPC does not include showers in their tables
> 
> I am dealing with a facility that is around 22,000 sf


How many are they showing???


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## David Henderson (Aug 11, 2015)

I Agree with Mark they are only required for over night occupancies, and where workers might be required to shower. If installed at least one each sex must be accessible.


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## north star (Aug 11, 2015)

*+ = = +*

While Showers are not required by the building & plumbing codes per se',
...they might be by the Health Dept........Plus, they ARE a marketing
feature for the customers.

*= + + =*


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## linnrg (Aug 11, 2015)

The developer has not yet shown a locker room layout.  He was asking me what the minimum was - thus my discovery.  At present he has a smaller health club and is in the process of building a larger club.  He is wanting to have some showers for customers choice and to have his club be the best.  I agree with the Acessiblity issue.

Thanks North Star.  1 per 50 would generate 4 or so per sex.  I think he is thinking in the range of two or three


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## linnrg (Aug 11, 2015)

Does everyone have trouble typing into the reply box - I get a serious lag and making corrections takes a second to show up sometimes - also the system can log you out if you don't perform fast enough  Using Chrome


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## Harscher (Aug 11, 2015)

Being both an Architect and a Building Official, I would use 10% as a good starting point.  Figure 400 occ. equals 40 lockers, and 40 lockers equals 4 showers.  If you figure a 50/50 split, that 2 showers for each sex.  But that seems a little low, so I think I go back to 4 for each.  A lot of it depends on how the facility is used,  how many of the customers use the showers rather than going home to clean up?  You may have more that shower there, so the number will need to go up.  Hope this helps.


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## linnrg (Aug 12, 2015)

Met with the developer and he stated that he was thinking of three or four each for male/female.  He wants to upscale his business versus the competition and talks in terms of fancy but we will wait to see what they come back with.


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## cda (Aug 12, 2015)

linnrg said:
			
		

> Met with the developer and he stated that he was thinking of three or four each for male/female.  He wants to upscale his business versus the competition and talks in terms of fancy but we will wait to see what they come back with.


Does the place have a swimming pool or sauna??


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## linnrg (Aug 14, 2015)

no on the pool or sauna


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## ADAguy (Aug 19, 2015)

This is a "best Practices/performance issue". If to be a high end facility then more is better than less.

Check out some golf course locker rooms to see how many showers are typically provided.

Lastly, as previously noted, "if provided", at a minimum one of each must be accessible.

How are you addressing sexual idenity facilities?


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## linnrg (Aug 19, 2015)

Up here in Alaska we define sexual identity by the size or presence of the horns/antlers.

To date no discussion about sexual identity facilities has occurred that I know of but will not be surprised when it becomes an issue.

So just recently the wife and I was at an outdoor concert for 4 days.  She was complaining about the long lines at the restroom and I told her that lots of women just went into the men's past us standing at the trough urinals to grab a stall.  So does that solve the problem as long as the stalls are properly sized and the quantity is correct?


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## JPohling (Aug 19, 2015)

whats a sexual identity facility?


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## JPohling (Aug 19, 2015)

linnrg said:
			
		

> Up here in Alaska we define sexual identity by the size of the horns/antlers.To date no discussion about sexual identity facilities has occurred that I know of but will not be surprised when it becomes an issue.
> 
> So just recently the wife and I was at an outdoor concert for 4 days.  She was complaining about the long lines at the restroom and I told her that lots of women just went into the men's past us standing at the trough urinals to grab a stall.  So does that solve the problem as long as the stalls are properly sized and the quantity is correct?


Only if you want to be placed on the sex offender list.


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## ADAguy (Aug 20, 2015)

In West Hollywood it is for those going thru the transition and inspite of differring plumbing see themselves as more than mere cross dressers.

I recently reviewed a CSU which requested a universal sex RR with common lavs and separate compartments for toilets and no urinals.

In many foreign countries it is not uncommon for RR's to accommodate all sex's.


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## north star (Apr 18, 2018)

*& = &*

I am referencing this Topic again, because I have some questions
about Showers.......I am using the `12 IBC, other `12 I-Codes and the
`09 A117.1 Standard as a starting point.......We should be using
& referencing the `18 I-Codes and the `17 A117.1, but it hasn't
quite gotten to that point yet.

That said, I have an existing Type B Occ. group facility.......They will
be performing a renovation on a large part of the building, to include
renovating the existing Restrooms, both Male & Female.......Presently
there are no Showers for the Females.......They plan to install two in
the newly renovated \ expanded Female Restroom.

Since the plan is to install two Shower Compartments for the Females,
is there any Accessibility "charging language" to require these Shower
Compartments to be fully Accessible if there is no requirement in the
IBC or IPC for Showers in a Type B. Occupancy ?........If there IS
"charging language" for Accessibility compliance, how many of these
Showers are "required" to be Accessible ?.....I am referring to Post # 5
& Post # 17 in this thread.

Would Section 1109.2 - Toilet and bathing facilities; in the `12 IBC,
be the "charging language" to require only one Shower Compartment
to be Accessible ?

Thanks ya'll !   


*& = &*


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## Rick18071 (Apr 18, 2018)

I only have the 2012 IBC 
1109.2 At least one of each fixture, element, control or dispenser in each accessible toilet room and bathing room shall be accessible..


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## Rick18071 (Apr 18, 2018)

So it looks like if a shower is not in a bathing room or toilet room it does not need to be accessible, like a shower just off the gym or an outside shower.


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## steveray (Apr 18, 2018)

I kinda agree with Rick...but if a shower is in a room, it is a bathing room and 1109.2 would apply..


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## north star (Apr 18, 2018)

*& = &*

***Rick***  &  ***steveray***, ...thanks for the input.

Both of your interpretations are also the way that I am thinking,
but I read Post # 5 [ in this thread ] from ***Mark Handler**,*
and I interpreted his remarks to mean "all" Showers need
to be Accessibly compliant.......I even mentioned "each" shower
must be compliant in Post # 6, but presently, I cannot locate a
Code or Standard that "requires" Accessibility compliance for
each Shower Compartment........D`OH !

*& = &*


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## Pcinspector1 (Apr 18, 2018)

I believe it would be similar to a row of toilet stalls, not all toilet stalls have to meet ADA, but at least one should. Same as a shower room, one should be ADA compliant IMO based off of 1109.2 IMO.


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## north star (Apr 18, 2018)

*$ ~ $ ~ $*

Thank you ***Pcinspector1***  for your input !

*$ ~ $ ~ $*


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## ADAguy (May 11, 2018)

So, it seems then to come down to if you provide lockers (how many?), then use at a minimum 5 -10%, 50% being men and 50% women or 100% gender neutral. A minimum of 1 or 5% to be accessible. Check a few country clubs or swim clubs in the area for comparisons.


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