# Stair handrail - Set to outside of treads?



## Fort (Nov 23, 2016)

2013 CA Bldg Code. 
Chapter 1012 and 11B-505...both are silent on the relative position of a handrail to the side edge of a stairway. 

Can railing be just off to the side of treads? 
Say 2" just outside? 
Or do they need to be directly above stair walking surface?


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## Fort (Nov 23, 2016)

There is no need for guard, landscape slopes up with stair on both sides, no problem with width between rails. Just to make installation easier, would like to set rail posts in concrete or bolt to side of existing stair structure.
Code is silent it seems.


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## fatboy (Nov 23, 2016)

I don't see a problem with it, see it all the time, deck stairs, newel posts on interior stairs sit out side of stair treads.

Edit: I'm talking about attached to the exterior of the flight, if you are talking about 2" clearance in between the exterior edge of the tread and interior of the rail, then not so much.


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## ADAguy (Nov 24, 2016)

Attaching to the sides could make for easier fabrication. I take it the stairs are concrete?


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## steveray (Nov 28, 2016)

I would say the HR does not need to be "above" a tread....How far outboard it could be would get to be debateable...


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## mark handler (Nov 28, 2016)

*If a recess at a wall works, yours should also*


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## Pcinspector1 (Nov 28, 2016)

I was just looking at some bleacher stairways and most appear to have the handrail with guardrail over the end edge of the stair tread, maybe they're not taking any chances with ADA?

If there was a 2" gap between the end edge and a bottom rail, I'm pretty sure someone could make it into a law suit by saying they got their toe caught and fell. Like others have stated I tend to see the railing fastened to the side of the stringer or concrete with the handrail over the tread edge.


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## ADAguy (Nov 28, 2016)

Both a "performance" and a "risk management" issue, chose your poison but error for safety.


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## Francis Vineyard (Nov 28, 2016)

In reference to the gap is it required for the walking surface to be between handrails (including the exception for below the projection) to comply with 2012 section 1009.9.1 exception 1. (2015 1011.7.1) even if the stairs tread exceeds the minimum MOE width?

*1009.9.1 Stairway walking surface. *The walking surface of treads and landings of a _stairway _shall not be sloped steeper than one unit vertical in 48 units horizontal (2-percent slope) in any direction. _Stairway _treads and landings shall have a solid surface. Finish floor surfaces shall be securely attached.
*Exceptions:*
1. Openings in stair walking surfaces shall be a size that does not permit the passage of 1/2-inch-diameter sphere. Elongated openings shall be placed so that the long dimension is perpendicular to the direction of travel.


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## rogerpa (Nov 28, 2016)

Pcinspector1 said:


> If there was a 2" gap between the end edge and a bottom rail, I'm pretty sure someone could make it into a law suit by saying they got their toe caught and fell. Like others have stated I tend to see the railing fastened to the side of the stringer or concrete with the handrail over the tread edge.



OSHA - Hole means a gap or void 2 inches (5.1 cm) or more in its least dimension, in a floor, roof, or other walking/working surface.
1926.502(i) "Covers."
Covers for holes in floors, roofs, and other walking/working surfaces shall meet the following requirements:
1926.502(i)(1) Covers located in roadways and vehicular aisles shall be capable of supporting, without failure, at least twice the maximum axle load of the largest vehicle expected to cross over the cover.
1926.502(i)(2) All other covers shall be capable of supporting, without failure, at least twice the weight of employees, equipment, and materials that may be imposed on the cover at any one time.
1926.502(i)(3) All covers shall be secured when installed so as to prevent accidental displacement by the wind, equipment, or employees.
1926.502(i)(4) All covers shall be color coded or they shall be marked with the word "HOLE" or "COVER" to provide warning of the hazard.


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## linnrg (Nov 28, 2016)

to FORT and M Handler - thanks for including the graphics.  I wish that more posts would be started the way this one was.  Both appear to have been cleanly cut and paste right into the post rater than an attached image


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## ADAguy (Nov 30, 2016)

point well taken linnrg. would that all of us are as adept at doing so.
Pictures are worth a thousand words and minutes too.


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## tbz (Dec 1, 2016)

Here in lies the question(s)

The code does not say you can't have a handrail outside the walking path, just that under section Section 1014.9 (2015 IBC) that "Stairways shall have intermediate handrails located in such a manner that all portions of the stairway minimum width or required capacity are within 30 inches (762 mm) of a handrail."

Thus, technically if you had a 44" wide stair flight, the handrails could be set 3" to each side of the stair within the doubled 30" of the centerline.

Controlling one walking off the stair flight edge is not the handrails concern or mandate within the code. One would either use closed stringers or with some other means to direct one to stay on the stair flight.  Falls of edges are under guards if required.

So though I will agree that placing the handrails wider than the walking surface can cause issues with someone stepping off the walking surface of the stair flight, it is not the handrails mandate to keep people within the flight.

Just my 2 cents for today - Tom


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## steveray (Dec 2, 2016)

Good analysis Tom....


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