# Fence Engineering



## tbz (Jul 23, 2019)

Morning All,

I remember a section requirement within the IBC that required any fence over 72" high to have engineering, because of the extended height.

I am guessing just like with backstops in ball fields, but I can't seem to find the section.

Anyone provide a pointer?  This is for a pool fence/barrier around a pool that is 7'6" tall and I didn't see anything in the pool code

Thank you in advance - Tom


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## Builder Bob (Jul 23, 2019)

Permitting yes,     
engineering - may be somewhat difficult to put a finger on. More of an AHJ call


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## Rick18071 (Jul 23, 2019)

This post is under commercial building codes so I guess it's commercial which means everything needs a stamped plan.


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## cda (Jul 23, 2019)

Needs a permit, just a matter of what the city requires to be submitted:::



*A]105.2 Work exempt from permit.*
Exemptions from permit requirements of this code shall not be deemed to grant authorization for any work to be done in any manner in violation of the provisions of this code or any other laws or ordinances of this jurisdiction. Permits shall not be required for the following:


Building:

1.One-story detached accessory structures used as tool and storage sheds, playhouses and similar uses, provided the floor area is not greater than 120 square feet (11 m2).


2.Fences not over 7 feet (2134 mm) high.


3.Oil derricks.


4.Retaining walls that are not over 4 feet (1219 mm) in height measured from the bottom of the footing to the top of the wall, unless supporting a surcharge or impounding Class I, II or IIIA liquids.


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## e hilton (Jul 23, 2019)

tbz said:


> This is for a pool fence/barrier around a pool that is 7'6" tall



Why so tall?


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## ADAguy (Jul 23, 2019)

Solid material or chainlink? Wind load can become a concern.


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## BayPointArchitect (Jul 23, 2019)

I would reserve my right to require a design professional until I see the drawing details.  If, for example, the details are provided by a full-time fence company, then there is going to be little added value with an engineering stamp.  But if the detail shows a post embedded into the dirt only 24 inches for a fence that is 7'-6" tall, then I am going to scrutinize and reject - regardless of any engineering seal.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kte0n0tp1gap2p5/ChainLinkFence.pdf?dl=0


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## linnrg (Jul 23, 2019)

Horse High Bull strong Hog tight


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## my250r11 (Jul 23, 2019)

cda said:


> 4.Retaining walls that are not over 4 feet (1219 mm) in height measured from the bottom of the footing to the top of the wall, unless supporting a surcharge or impounding Class I, II or IIIA liquids.



This would be my major concern. If no surcharge then I would wait to see the drawing before requiring engineering. Still requires permit.


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## tbz (Jul 27, 2019)

e hilton said:


> Why so tall?


Thanks everyone for the input on permit vs no permit.
The reason for the height is simple the project is located between 2 buildings and behind one in the middle and the pool area is in a raised portion of the hill.  Thus on each end between the middle building and the outer buildings there are stair flights that come up and intersect with the fence, hence guards on the open sides are required to be 42" high minimum and you are required to have a minimum of 45 inches of clear vertical none climbable above the last foot hold on pool barriers, ergo: the top of the guard 42" + 45" clear zone = 87" minimum height required.  So for simplification and a fudge zone they were designed for 90".  

Mounting is not an issue as they are pouring footings, per engineering we had reviewed because of wind load concern, being private housing near a college campus and the pool barrier is being custom fabricated.  The question came about simply in our conversation with the engineers, as to what exactly the codes was requiring engineer review and seals for.  Pool barriers don't have structural load requirements.  

I could not find the code section that said you need engineering, just that you need a permit and by needing a permit, you need drawings and on an IBC project a Licensed Architect or engineer was required to approve or seal drawings.  

But the conversation became, other than seals needed on drawings, what exactly are they reviewing for code compliance other than height and opening limitations?

I hope this better explains the direction of the question.

Again thanks for the input.


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## Mark K (Jul 27, 2019)

The question of whether an engineer should be involved is separate from when a building permit is required.  An engineer needs to be involved when required by the licensing laws while whether a permit is needed is determined by the building code.  These are two separate sets of laws.

The building official is focused on whether the design complies with the building code and can require the applicant to provide proof of compliance.


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## jar546 (Jul 27, 2019)

Mark K said:


> The question of whether an engineer should be involved is separate from when a building permit is required.  An engineer needs to be involved when required by the licensing laws while whether a permit is needed is determined by the building code.  These are two separate sets of laws.
> 
> The building official is focused on whether the design complies with the building code and can require the applicant to provide proof of compliance.



Yes, Exactly.


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## jar546 (Jul 27, 2019)

Here is an example of where wind loads come into play for a chain link fence:


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## jar546 (Jul 27, 2019)

Wood fences in HVHZ tap out at 6' prescriptively as seen here:


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