# How much $$ before ADA kicks in



## Examiner (Dec 9, 2011)

Doing some research and finding answers in the printed material is sending me this way and that way.  Could use some help Code Sections ADA Sections

What dollar amount causes ADA upgrades in existing school buildings?  EX: school wants to paint, install new suspended ceilings, lights and HVAC.  Nothing earmarked for ADA but amount of work will be in million range.  I am thinking there is something in the FEDS Title II regs.

The Building Code no longer has a value amount set that I am aware to cause an existing building to upgrade assuming there is not a change of occupancy.  Does anyone know of anything in the Code that would trigger a Code compliant upgrade to an existing building?


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## globe trekker (Dec 9, 2011)

Examiner,

Your "upgrades" sounds more like general and routine maintenance items to me.

Is the suspended ceiling a fire rated assembly? The new HVAC units would have

to comply with the requirments for "new" equipment ( i.e. - new electrical,

mechanical, possibly structural if a heavier unit is installed in a load bearing

location, plumbing, fuel gas, etc. ). I did not see anything in Ch. 34 - Existing

Structures, in the 2006 IBC regarding a dollar amount.

.


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## Frank (Dec 9, 2011)

Assuming public school--

Title II ADA requires schools to be accessible even if no renovations planned Deadline was January 26, 1995.

http://www.ada.gov/taman2.html

"II-5.6000 Time periods for achieving program accessibility. Public entities must achieve program accessibility by January 26, 1992. If structural changes are needed to achieve program accessibility, they must be made as expeditiously as possible, but in no event later than January 26, 1995. This three-year time period is not a grace period; all changes must be accomplished as expeditiously as possible. A public entity that employs 50 or more persons must develop a transition plan by July 26, 1992, setting forth the steps necessary to complete such changes. For guidance on transition plan requirements, see II-8.3000. "

"II-3.4200 Relationship to "program accessibility" requirement. The integrated setting requirement may conflict with the obligation to provide program accessibility, which may not necessarily mandate physical access to all parts of all facilities (see II-5.0000). Provision of services to individuals with disabilities in a different location, for example, is one method of achieving program accessibility. Public entities should make every effort to ensure that alternative methods of providing program access do not result in unnecessary segregation.

ILLUSTRATION: A school system should provide for wheelchair access at schools dispersed throughout its service area so that children who use wheelchairs can attend school at locations comparable in convenience to those available to other children. Also, where "magnet" schools, or schools offering different curricula or instruction techniques are available, the range of choice provided to students with disabilities must be comparable to that offered to other students.

II-5.1000 General. A public entity may not deny the benefits of its programs, activities, and services to individuals with disabilities because its facilities are inaccessible. A public entity's services, programs, or activities, when viewed in their entirety, must be readily accessible to and usable by individuals with disabilities. This standard, known as "program accessibility," applies to all existing facilities of a public entity. Public entities, however, are not necessarily required to make each of their existing facilities accessible.

ILLUSTRATION 1: When a city holds a public meeting in an existing building, it must provide ready access to, and use of, the meeting facilities to individuals with disabilities. The city is not required to make all areas in the building accessible, as long as the meeting room is accessible. Accessible telephones and bathrooms should also be provided where these services are available for use of meeting attendees.

ILLUSTRATION 2: D, a defendant in a civil suit, has a respiratory condition that prevents her from climbing steps. Civil suits are routinely heard in a courtroom on the second floor of the courthouse. The courthouse has no elevator or other means of access to the second floor. The public entity must relocate the proceedings to an accessible ground floor courtroom or take alternative steps, including moving the proceedings to another building, in order to allow D to participate in the civil suit.

ILLUSTRATION 3: A State provides ten rest areas approximately 50 miles apart along an interstate highway. Program accessibility requires that an accessible toilet room for each sex with at least one accessible stall, or a unisex bathroom, be provided at each rest area.

Is a public entity relieved of its obligation to make its programs accessible if no individual with a disability is known to live in a particular area? No. The absence of individuals with disabilities living in an area cannot be used as the test of whether programs and activities must be accessible.

ILLUSTRATION: A rural school district has only one elementary school and it is located in a one-room schoolhouse accessible only by steps. The school board asserts that there are no students in the district who use wheelchairs. Students, however, who currently do not have a disability may become individuals with disabilities through, for example, accidents or disease. In addition, persons other than students, such as parents and other school visitors, may be qualified individuals with disabilities who are entitled to participate in school programs. Consequently, the apparent lack of students with disabilities in a school district's service area does not excuse the school district from taking whatever appropriate steps are necessary to ensure that its programs, services, and activities are accessible to qualified individuals with disabilities. "

IBC 3411.7 exceptions would say nothing triggered by these renovations assuming the ceiling replacement is the result of the hvac and lighting work.

Primary function space renovations would say additional 20% for Accessibility improvements


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## Examiner (Dec 12, 2011)

Well I called (Fed) DOJ tech line and got assistance.  Answer was *YES* with that much money 20% should be applied to ADA updates.  The person told me that because some of the work was flooring then that alone kicked in upgrade for ADA.  Not having surveyed the facilities for compliance to the old ADA I really do not know how much of the budget will be needed for any ADA.  So yes some maintenance items will kick in ADA.  I also got the input that the amount of money regardless of what it is was designate for should have some for ADA.  Title II facility.


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## rshuey (Dec 12, 2011)

If the DP uses IEBC, the 20% rule may apply, but only if he/she chooses the right path.


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## mark handler (Dec 12, 2011)

rshuey said:
			
		

> If the DP uses IEBC, the 20% rule may apply, but only if he/she chooses the right path.


You may want to read IBC 3409.7


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## gbhammer (Dec 12, 2011)

So even though an alteration may not kick in the requirement for a building permit they still should should comply with the 20% rule for ADA upgrades?


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## Examiner (Dec 12, 2011)

Yes the 20% per the Federal Law applies to Title II buildings as well.  You must remember the 20% is only for areas required to be accessible being only functional areas that require accessibility in an existing building as I understand the rule.


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## gbhammer (Dec 12, 2011)

Chapter 34 commentary uses the example that if you are altering a two story building then you can put your 20% in to just a pit for an elevator, then as time goes by and more alterations or money becomes available you will eventually have an elevator. What if the whole first floor of the building is compliant, then must you put 20% towards an elevator, if your doing alterations in the building?


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## Examiner (Dec 12, 2011)

The Feds even say you have three upgrades allowed then you must comply.  This came about to avoid people doing modifications just under what would affect ADA updating.  If the last three modifications done to a building were completed and ADA was not included then the DOJ would cause you pain.


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## mtlogcabin (Dec 12, 2011)

The painting, lights and HVAC would not be included for the total amount applied to the 20% rule. and maybe the ceiling tile if it has asbestos in it

*Sec.36.402 Alterations.*

(a) General. (1) Any alteration to a place of public accommodation or a commercial facility, after January 26, 1992, shall be made so as to ensure that, to the maximum extent feasible, the altered portions of the facility are readily accessible to and usable by individuals with disabilities, including individuals who use wheelchairs.



(2) An alteration is deemed to be undertaken after January 26, 1992, if the physical alteration of the property begins after that date.



(b) Alteration. For the purposes of this part, an alteration is a change to a place of public accommodation or a commercial facility that affects or could affect the usability of the building or facility or any part thereof.



(1) Alterations include, but are not limited to, remodeling, renovation, rehabilitation, reconstruction, historic restoration, changes or rearrangement in structural parts or elements, and changes or rearrangement in the plan configuration of walls and full-height partitions. Normal maintenance, reroofing, painting or wallpapering, asbestos removal, or changes to mechanical and electrical systems are not alterations unless they affect the usability of the building or facility.


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## mark handler (Dec 12, 2011)

By the way, in CA section 1134B.2.1 does have a valuation of $128,410.86.,,,,

Make sure that 86 cents is there....


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## JBI (Dec 12, 2011)

I am unaware of any provisions in the Building Codes that requires compliance with ADA ever. The Codes generally require compliance with ICC\ANSI A117.1 (of the recognized year per your version of the Code...). There are compliance thresholds, and depending on exactly what has been adopted in your jurisdiction, they will vary slightly depending on the compliance path chosen for an existing building.

I'm surprised noone else made that point... ADA is federal law that is enforced by the DoJ. Codes are regulations adopted by the local Government that rely on Reference Standards, like ICC\ANSI 117.1. Lacking a local law authorizing it (and you'd be crazy to), the AHJ cannot enforce ADA. Design professionals must prepare plans that demonstrate compliance with BOTH. Owners are required to comply with BOTH. Code Officials can only enforce the Codes.


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## steveray (Dec 13, 2011)

We can only enforce the code, but we are often asked for our input and try to steer the : board of ed, DP, contractors, etc. in the right direction....we should be gaining on accessibility in every remodel until we have compliance, that is why those 20% numbers are in there. Far too many "professionals do not understand what a large issue this can be. We just had 2 large shopping centers re-stripe their parking lots incorrectly...we do not do permits for striping....now every time I get a fitout there, I will have to have them restripe the lot to get my accessible route from site arrival point to primary functions.



			
				JBI said:
			
		

> I am unaware of any provisions in the Building Codes that requires compliance with ADA ever. The Codes generally require compliance with ICC\ANSI A117.1 (of the recognized year per your version of the Code...). There are compliance thresholds, and depending on exactly what has been adopted in your jurisdiction, they will vary slightly depending on the compliance path chosen for an existing building. I'm surprised noone else made that point... ADA is federal law that is enforced by the DoJ. Codes are regulations adopted by the local Government that rely on Reference Standards, like ICC\ANSI 117.1. Lacking a local law authorizing it (and you'd be crazy to), the AHJ cannot enforce ADA. Design professionals must prepare plans that demonstrate compliance with BOTH. Owners are required to comply with BOTH. Code Officials can only enforce the Codes.


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## gbhammer (Dec 13, 2011)

We may not be required to enforce the ADAAG, but we at least in our jurisdiction were required to attend courses in those requirements. If we do not make mention of these requirements then we look like the bad guys when some one does call them on it, or worse like idiots when the press finds out that we trained but said nothing.


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## Examiner (Dec 13, 2011)

When I reference ADA I am thinking of both the Feds and Building Code accessibility requirements.  If you compare what is in the Building Code's Chapters regarding accessibility and the ICC/ANSI A117.1 you will see that the wording is very similar in most requirements to the Federal ADA 2010 edition.  There are some differences between the Feds and A117.1.  We professionals have to use the most stringent parts of the two guidelines.

Just to let you know the Federal ADA was first written from A117.1.


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## Frank (Dec 13, 2011)

Thats why I put in the Federal Title II requirements for public buildings to have been upgraded years ago as separate from the IBC requirements in earlier post.

Many people ask about our ADA requirements when they mean the accessibility requirements and we do point out the difference.


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