# Those darn pizza ovens



## cda (Dec 28, 2010)

The fire started in grease accumulations in a vent above a pizza oven in Luciano's, said San Antonio Fire Department Battalion Chief William Pavliska. The fire then spread to the roof of the mall, but firefighters were able to contain it.

http://mobile.mysa.com/mysa/db_41313/contentdetail.htm;jsessionid=766F03F705B8FE73CCC4247296F3B4B0?contentguid=Lmr5NrMq&src=cat


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## fatboy (Dec 28, 2010)

They must have forgot to use the "greaseless" pizza products.......


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## FyrBldgGuy (Dec 28, 2010)

There's no grease in pizza!!!!!!  I have tested thousands of pizzas.

It's those darn chicken wings.


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## FredK (Dec 28, 2010)

It's a myth.  Pizza and grease.  Wings and other things---a whole nother matter.


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## mark handler (Dec 28, 2010)

The toppings are filled with grease and the particulates do "cover" the inside of the vent pipe.


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## cda (Dec 28, 2010)

Heat source in duct work ? To fire it off???


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## mark handler (Dec 28, 2010)

cda said:
			
		

> Heat source in duct work ? To fire it off???


?Oven left on?


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## JBI (Dec 28, 2010)

... shall be MAINTAINED... Somebody forgot to maintain it.


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## texasbo (Dec 29, 2010)

Could not have possibly come from pizza; there is no grease in the pizza making process. How do I know? I have been told that by every owner operator whose type II hood over a conveyor oven I have turned down.

And it was always allowed in every other city in which they opened a store.


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## fatboy (Dec 29, 2010)

texasbo said:
			
		

> Could not have possibly come from pizza; there is no grease in the pizza making process. How do I know? I have been told that by every owner operator whose type II hood over a conveyor oven I have turned down.And it was always allowed in every other city in which they opened a store.


LOL.........for a second I thought you were going to be serious.......funny stuff. I guess you have the same pizza folks there.

I always tell them, flip your fresh pizza in its box over sometime, look how much grease comes off the top......and how much was underneath!


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## north star (Dec 29, 2010)

*& & & &*

That's purdy funny texasbo! :lol:

But fatboy, why let the "greasy" truth [ that would be staring them in

their face ] get in the way of profit?

*# # # #*


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## peach (Jan 4, 2011)

I guess I've never seen what you're describing; most conveyor pizza ovens are enclosed and the heat extraction hood is primarily that.. if grease laden vapors are coming up in the steam when the door is opened, we need to look at the maintenance of the duct... which means annual fire inspections.  MHO


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## texasbo (Jan 6, 2011)

The vast majority going in now are not enclosed; they're open on each end. The 2009 IMC includes gas and electric conveyor pizza ovens as "medium duty appliances", and requires a Type I hood over all medium, heavy and extra heavy duty appliances.


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## Pcinspector1 (Jan 6, 2011)

fatboy,

Your to easy on em, make them put the pie on a paper towel so you can get to your next inspection.

Can I have a beer while I wait on the test?

pc1


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## peach (Jan 8, 2011)

sure there is going to be grease.. that's usually collected in the bottom of the conveyor.. how much becomes "grease laden vapor" as opposed to frying wings in a vat of fat..

I'd doubt that the grease in the duct is from just a pizza oven... but maybe time for a code change!


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## texasbo (Jan 10, 2011)

peach said:
			
		

> sure there is going to be grease.. that's usually collected in the bottom of the conveyor.. how much becomes "grease laden vapor" as opposed to frying wings in a vat of fat..I'd doubt that the grease in the duct is from just a pizza oven... but maybe time for a code change!


The inclusion of Medium Duty Cooking Appliance, with conveyor type pizza ovens, was a change in the 2009 IMC.


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## Uncle Bob (Jan 10, 2011)

Well, Pizza is nothing more than carboard with leftover cheese and garbage scattered over it.  Should not need a fancy oven.

Uncle Bob


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## peach (Jan 10, 2011)

Good change, tex...

UB.. not a pizza lover?


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## Bryan Holland (Jan 11, 2011)

For a related article, click on the link below and scroll down to page 8:

http://www.boaf.net/images/stories/Newsletters/boaftodayfall2010pt1.pdf


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## Big Mac (Jan 13, 2011)

Solution - Class I hood / Fire Supression


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## fatboy (Jan 13, 2011)

Good article Bryan...........didn't change my opinion one way or another, but did confirm that there is no consensus!


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## jar546 (Jan 13, 2011)

Thank goodness pizza ovens are exempt from Type 1 hoods!  Think of all the wasted money if they were required to be.


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## cda (Jan 13, 2011)

Yea and domino's would have to make their pizza crust thinner!!!!


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## pwood (Jan 13, 2011)

i was told just the other day by an inquirer that pizza does not indeed produce grease. so i guess no need for the type 1 hood or a grease trap for the proposed pizza palace. was i correct here?


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## fireguy (Jan 17, 2011)

cda said:
			
		

> Yea and domino's would have to make their pizza crust thinner!!!!


Last month we installed a  UL 300 system  in a Domino's and the hood was a Type I, as was the exhaust duct (on the 3rd try).  The fan is a downblast.

In about 10 years, the exhaust system may need to be cleaned.


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## MechinspMi (Jan 25, 2011)

Anybody watch the conference playoffs this past weekend?  The Domino's commercial to be exact.  If you noticed the conveyor pizza oven had suppression nozzels on both ends at each opening the way its required to be installed.

Vern


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## jim baird (Jan 26, 2011)

Convenience store owner wants to install one of these convection pizza things.

He brought his vendor's rep with him.  In response to my query about exhaust, suppression, and need for them to document their claim that they didn't need no stinkin' hood, I was e-mailed a letter from an engineer at the manufacturer, who blew lots of smoke but did not make much clear sense.

He quoted testing by 3rd party to EPA 202, and testing to UL197, but also included two references to local AHJ being able to make the call.

I am not convinced that EPA 202 data helps resolve anything.  My research found a UL710 that refers to "recirculating" equipment that nonetheless contains automatic fire suppression and grease filtering.

I have already been led down this or that garden path by corporate smoke blowers who appear to enjoy preying on smaller AHJ's where the experience with variety of equipment is more limited.

My reply to their e-mail explaining what I haven't seen has yet to be answered.  Letters from engineers, I have found, can be as cagey and deceptive as anything from a lawyer.


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## cda (Jan 26, 2011)

Domino’s Pizza Fresh Tomatoes Commercial

put that in you tube and it shows a nozzle for a few seconds

probably the test kitchen where they burn pizza's up trying to invent the latest greatest pizza!!!!


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## MechinspMi (Jan 26, 2011)

jim baird said:
			
		

> Convenience store owner wants to install one of these convection pizza things.He brought his vendor's rep with him.  In response to my query about exhaust, suppression, and need for them to document their claim that they didn't need no stinkin' hood, I was e-mailed a letter from an engineer at the manufacturer, who blew lots of smoke but did not make much clear sense.
> 
> He quoted testing by 3rd party to EPA 202, and testing to UL197, but also included two references to local AHJ being able to make the call.
> 
> ...


Jim, check the 2009 IMC 507.2.2.  It now contains verbage that excludes the use of a hood & suppression under the info he has given you.  The EPA 202 test is referred to in NFPA 96 with electric UL 197 listed equipment.  Personally I don't like it but thats what was written into the 2009 version.


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## mtlogcabin (Jan 26, 2011)

Jim

2009

507.2.2 Type II hoods.

Type II hoods shall be installed above dishwashers and light-duty appliances that produce heat or moisture and do not produce grease or smoke,Will it produce grease or smoke? Most do. except where the heat and moisture loads from such appliances are incorporated into the HVAC system design or into the design of a separate removal system. Did the HVAC contractor acount for the extra load Type II hoods shall be installed above all light-duty appliances that produce products of combustion and do not produce grease or smoke. Will it produce grease or smoke? Most do. Spaces containing cooking appliances that do not require Type II hoods shall be ventilated in accordance with Section 403.3. For the purpose of determining the floor area required to be ventilated, each individual appliance that is not required to be installed under a Type II hood shall be considered as occupying not less than 100 square feet (9.3 m2).


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## cda (Jan 26, 2011)

"""Convenience store owner wants to install one of these convection pizza things."""

Is this an oven

As in totally enclosed ?????


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## jim baird (Jan 27, 2011)

Thanks for the replies.

We are still on '06 codes here in GA.  My query to the vendor for better, more specific or clarifying info re the equipment was met with no info.  He said all he does is deliver it and plug it in, and the approval is totally up to me.  Plus he told his customer that only one AHJ in the state (GA has 159 counties) had required any more than standing the unit on the floor and plugging it in.

Funny how some think that less cooperation yields better results.


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## cda (Jan 27, 2011)

Jim is this a totally enclosed oven????

And electric only?????


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## fireguy (Jan 28, 2011)

I do not have access to UL 710, but my understanding is that refers to the self-contained fryers such as Giles, Crispy Lite (Wells Mfg), Perfect Fry and Auto Fry build.  All of the self-contained units I have seen  do have fire systems.  Giles is the only brand I have seen with a gas supply.

The electric ovens  I have seen do not require venting outside, a fire system or fuel shut offs.  But, I have seen only a few new ovens, and usually any instructions are gone before I see them.


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## jim baird (Jan 31, 2011)

cda,

I think the answer to your last questions may be yes.  They have as yet not even identified model number or any identifying info.

A health dept inspector I know says that brand of little oven does not require the business that installs it to go through food service licensing.  It is categorized as "food sales" and is regulated by state ag dept.  Go figure.


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## jim baird (Feb 2, 2011)

Finally got info from manufacturer, and just off phone with manufacturer's engineer who wrote spec sheet for equip., last updated on 1/18/11.

Sheet says ventilation recommended, but not required.  Engineer says he prefers type II with a kosher filter, but design and install of venting is up to venting contractor.

The guy who sells the oven (open both ends "light duty finishing oven", which actually meets exception #3 of IMC'06 507.2.2), only knows that it is for sale if you want to buy one (he just delivers it and plugs it in the wall), and the code guy has to decide what if anything to do about venting.  Also have some clearance figures etc.


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## FredK (Feb 2, 2011)

jim baird said:
			
		

> Finally got info from manufacturer, and just off phone with manufacturer's engineer who wrote spec sheet for equip., last updated on 1/18/11.Sheet says ventilation recommended, but not required.  Engineer says he prefers type II with a kosher filter, but design and install of venting is up to venting contractor.
> 
> The guy who sells the oven (open both ends "light duty finishing oven", which actually meets exception #3 of IMC'06 507.2.2), only knows that it is for sale if you want to buy one (he just delivers it and plugs it in the wall), and the code guy has to decide what if anything to do about venting.  Also have some clearance figures etc.


The old leave it up to the AHJ thing.  Would prefer they say it needs/not need ventilation, if not then they need it here.


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## north star (Feb 2, 2011)

** * * **



> *"Engineer says he prefers type II with a kosher filter,... "*


I gotta ask, what is a kosher filter? :?:** * * **


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