# since there's not other place to post my frustration



## peach (Oct 31, 2009)

including CNN.. I'll do it here..

We went to Afghanistan to eliminate the threat to our country (Al-Queda).. not to establish a democracy.  We need the resolve to do what we are there to do, and leave the internal politics to the Afghans..

The British couldn't do it.. the Soviets couldn't do it.. we can't either..

Let's agree to staff up.. get rid of Bin Laden and his cohorts (whoever they are.. wherever they are).. and bring our troops home.

Thanks

(carefully stepping off my soap box).


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## brat (Oct 31, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

Peach, we were just having this conversation yesterday.  I am as redneck and conservative as a person can be, but impose our ways on another culture?  I will never happen.

Here is my harsh but simple plan:

1) Go in and identify the bad guys

2) Kill them (no detaining or trials)

3) Get out

Think how many lives this would save!


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## brudgers (Oct 31, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration



			
				brat said:
			
		

> Peach, we were just having this conversation yesterday.  I am as redneck and conservative as a person can be, but impose our ways on another culture?  I will never happen.  Here is my harsh but simple plan:
> 
> 1) Go in and identify the bad guys
> 
> ...


After eight years of it, now it will work.


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## JBI (Oct 31, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

If they wanted to find OBL they would have a long time ago.

They found Sadam Hussein, a man who would easily blend in with any crowd of middle eastern men, (supposedly) in a hole in the ground in the middle of newhere.

But binLaden, who stands a head above the average sized male in that part of the world and is BRIGHT YELLOW from kidney failure, they can't seem to find?

peach - You left one out... Hannibal couldn't either, and he beat the snot out of EVERYBODY!


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## brudgers (Oct 31, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

It's too bad the operation didn't have to go through plan review.

They'd just be getting their permit.


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## InspMO (Nov 1, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

WOW! It appears we all agree on something. See you next week Peach.


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## fatboy (Nov 1, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

I hope they firure out the game plan, my son, a Cav Scout, just landed in Kuwait to stage before 7-8 months in Iraq, the a very brief leave, and back to Afganistan for another 7-8 months.....I would feel better about it they had a plan...........


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## conarb (Nov 1, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration



			
				John said:
			
		

> peach - You left one out... Hannibal couldn't either, and he beat the snot out of EVERYBODY!


And Alexander the Great couldn't either.


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## north star (Nov 2, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

*peach,*

*Since you have opened the 'Ranting Door',  if we*

*are ranting on the situation in Afghanistan...*

*I too am a veteran, so I am NOT disrespecting any*

*veteran out there!         I've said it before and I'll*

*say it again.   It's not about democratizing a country,*

*...it's not about freeing the Afghany people from an*

*oppressive regime.     Heck, I don't believe that it is*

*even about looking for OBL or his cronies.   It's*

*about the money!    When the Iraq war started*

*slowing down, the military war machine had to find*

*another theatre in which to stay in business.*

*`Our Pentagon powers-that-be and 'Ol [ former ]*

*V.P. Cheney had to go find another fertile location*

*in which to sell their arms, weapon systems and*

*services.*

*I think that the 'war spin doctors' filter just enough*

*information out to the public to [ hopefully ] keep*

*us thinking that it is about the "freeing of an*

*oppressed people" and that our armed forces are*

*the policing saviours of the world [ as long as it*

*is profitable ].    How many full fledged military*

*campaigns has anyone seen going into Darfur*

*or even Bosnia during the genocide back in the*

*90's?    What hasn't anyone targeted ol Kim*

*Jong Il and established some democracy in*

*North Korea?    Don't the North Koreans*

*deserve some good 'ol democracy too?*

*IT'S  ABOUT  THE  MONEY!   * 

*Where is the urgency to get our armed forces*

*out of Irag & Afghanistan, ...the same*

*urgency [ marketing ] to get them in to that*

*mess in the first place?    It's all about the*

*money, and our armed forces are being used*

*as pawns to achieve the profit filled agendas*

*of a select few.   * :x  :x

*As long as the people in Washington D.C. and*

*the Pentagon are allowed to carry on their on*

*profit filled, self serving agendas, ...no one*

*anywhere is safe, including us Americans.*

*We have met the enemy and they is us!*

*I too am stepping down off my soapbox*

*before I get that little red, laser dot on my*

*forehead.   D`OH !!*


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## jpranch (Nov 11, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

War? A forgotton art? Wage war on the civillation population. Bomb the cities and kill wholesale. Women, children, men, the old and the young. Anybody recall our civil war? Sherman, Sherridan? Make them so sick of war........ Destroy everything. This is where even water, flour, meat and the basics are very dear. This is a hard but true reality. Rules of engagement? What a crock! Anybody remember what we did in WW2? We bombed the hell out of cities. Make them sick of war. But you better have a reconstruction plan in place after.


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## rktect 1 (Nov 12, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration



			
				jpranch said:
			
		

> War? A forgotton art? Wage war on the civillation population. Bomb the cities and kill wholesale. Women, children, men, the old and the young. Anybody recall our civil war? Sherman, Sherridan? Make them so sick of war........ Destroy everything. This is where even water, flour, meat and the basics are very dear. This is a hard but true reality. Rules of engagement? What a crock! Anybody remember what we did in WW2? We bombed the hell out of cities. Make them sick of war. But you better have a reconstruction plan in place after.


I am just going to agree with you jp.  You have expressed my views fairly well.  Like you said it is an unfortunate truth about war.

Thanks.


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## gvictor (Nov 12, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

We could not do it in Vietnam, where I was either.  How many times do we have to be kicked to the curb before we learn our lesson.  They eventually will have the kind of government THEY are willing to fight and vote for.

I am with you Peach, take the politics and the politicians out and leave the fighting to the generals with specific goals, like get Osama!!

Greg


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## Mac (Nov 12, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

"War means fightin', and fightin' means killin" - CSA Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest


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## conarb (Nov 12, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

*The Speech.  Somewhere in England, June 5th, 1944.*

*"Be seated."*

*     Men, this stuff that some sources sling around about America wanting out of this war, not wanting to fight, is a crock of bullshit. Americans love to fight, traditionally. All real Americans love the sting and clash of battle.*

     You are here today for three reasons. First, because you are here to defend your homes and your loved ones. Second, you are here for your own self respect, because you would not want to be anywhere else. Third, you are here because you are real men and all real men like to fight. When you, here, every one of you, were kids, you all admired the champion marble player, the fastest runner, the toughest boxer, the big league ball players, and the All-American football players. Americans love a winner. Americans will not tolerate a loser. Americans despise cowards. Americans play to win all of the time. I wouldn't give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That's why Americans have never lost nor will ever lose a war; for the very idea of losing is hateful to an American.

     You are not all going to die. Only two percent of you right here today would die in a major battle. Death must not be feared. Death, in time, comes to all men. Yes, every man is scared in his first battle. If he says he's not, he's a liar. Some men are cowards but they fight the same as the brave men or they get the hell slammed out of them watching men fight who are just as scared as they are. The real hero is the man who fights even though he is scared. Some men get over their fright in a minute under fire. For some, it takes an hour. For some, it takes days. But a real man will never let his fear of death overpower his honor, his sense of duty to his country, and his innate manhood. Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best and it removes all that is base.  Americans pride themselves on being He Men and they ARE He Men.

     Remember that the enemy is just as frightened as you are, and probably more so. They are not supermen. All through your Army careers, you men have bitched about what you call "chicken **** drilling." That, like everything else in this Army, has a definite purpose. That purpose is alertness.  Alertness must be bred into every soldier. I don't give a **** for a man who's not always on his toes.

     You men are veterans or you wouldn't be here. You are ready for what's to come. A man must be alert at all times if he expects to stay alive. If you're not alert, sometime, a German son-of-an-asshole-bitch is going to sneak up behind you and beat you to death with a sockful of ****! There are four hundred neatly marked graves somewhere in Sicily, all because one man went to sleep on the job. But they are German graves, because we caught the bastard asleep before they did.

     An Army is a team. It lives, sleeps, eats, and fights as a team. This individual heroic stuff is pure horseshit. The bilious bastards who write that kind of stuff for the Saturday Evening Post don't know any more about real fighting under fire than they know about fucking! We have the finest food, the finest equipment, the best spirit, and the best men in the world.  Why, by God, I actually pity those poor sons-of-bitches we're going up against. By God, I do.

     My men don't surrender, and I don't want to hear of any soldier under my command being captured unless he has been hit. Even if you are hit, you can still fight back. That's not just bull **** either. The kind of man that I want in my command is just like the lieutenant in Libya, who, with a Luger against his chest, jerked off his helmet, swept the gun aside with one hand, and busted the hell out of the Kraut with his helmet. Then he jumped on the gun and went out and killed another German before they knew what the hell was coming off. And, all of that time, this man had a bullet through a lung. There was a real man!

      All of the real heroes are not storybook combat fighters, either. Every single man in this Army plays a vital role. Don't ever let up. Don't ever think that your job is unimportant. Every man has a job to do and he must do it. Every man is a vital link in the great chain. What if every truck driver suddenly decided that he didn't like the whine of those shells overhead, turned yellow, and jumped headlong into a ditch? The cowardly bastard could say, 'Hell, they won't miss me, just one man in thousands.' But, what if every man thought that way? Where in the hell would we be now? What would our country, our loved ones, our homes, even the world, be like? No, Goddamnit, Americans don't think like that. Every man does his job. Every man serves the whole. Every department, every unit, is important in the vast scheme of this war. The ordnance men are needed to supply the guns and machinery of war to keep us rolling. The Quartermaster is needed to bring up food and clothes because where we are going there isn't a hell of a lot to steal. Every last man on K.P. has a job to do, even the one who heats our water to keep us from getting the 'G.I. Shits'.

     Each man must not think only of himself, but also of his buddy fighting beside him. We don't want yellow cowards in this Army. They should be killed off like rats. If not, they will go home after this war and breed more cowards. The brave men will breed more brave men. Kill off the Goddamned cowards and we will have a nation of brave men. One of the bravest men that I ever saw was a fellow on top of a telegraph pole in the midst of a furious fire fight in Tunisia. I stopped and asked what the hell he was doing up there at a time like that. He answered, 'Fixing the wire, Sir.' I asked, 'Isn't that a little unhealthy right about now?' He answered, 'Yes Sir, but the Goddamned wire has to be fixed.' I asked, 'Don't those planes strafing the road bother you?' And he answered, 'No, Sir, but you sure as hell do!'

     Now, there was a real man. A real soldier. There was a man who devoted all he had to his duty, no matter how seemingly insignificant his duty might appear at the time, no matter how great the odds. And you should have seen those trucks on the rode to Tunisia. Those drivers were magnificent. All day and all night they rolled over those son-of-a-bitching roads, never stopping, never faltering from their course, with shells bursting all around them all of the time. We got through on good old American guts.

      Many of those men drove for over forty consecutive hours. These men weren't combat men, but they were soldiers with a job to do. They did it, and in one hell of a way they did it. They were part of a team. Without team effort, without them, the fight would have been lost. All of the links in the chain pulled together and the chain became unbreakable.

     Don't forget, you men don't know that I'm here. No mention of that fact is to be made in any letters. The world is not supposed to know what the hell happened to me. I'm not supposed to be commanding this Army. I'm not even supposed to be here in England. Let the first bastards to find out be the Goddamned Germans. Someday I want to see them raise up on their piss-soaked hind legs and howl, 'Jesus Christ, it's the Goddamned Third Army again and that son-of-a-fucking-bitch Patton.' We want to get the hell over there." The quicker we clean up this Goddamned mess, the quicker we can take a little jaunt against the purple pissing Japs and clean out their nest, too. Before the Goddamned Marines get all of the credit.

      Sure, we want to go home. We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the bastards who started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home. The shortest way home is through Berlin and Tokyo. And when we get to Berlin, I am personally going to shoot that paper hanging son-of-a-bitch Hitler. Just like I'd shoot a snake!

     When a man is lying in a shell hole, if he just stays there all day, a German will get to him eventually. The hell with that idea. The hell with taking it. My men don't dig foxholes. I don't want them to.  Foxholes only slow up an offensive. Keep moving. And don't give the enemy time to dig one either. We'll win this war, but we'll win it only by fighting and by showing the Germans that we've got more guts than they have; or ever will have. We're not going to just shoot the sons-of-bitches, we're going to rip out their living Goddamned guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy Hun cock suckers by the bushel-fucking-basket.

     War is a bloody, killing business. You've got to spill their blood, or they will spill yours. Rip them up the belly. Shoot them in the guts. When shells are hitting all around you and you wipe the dirt off your face and realize that instead of dirt it's the blood and guts of what once was your best friend beside you, you'll know what to do!

     I don't want to get any messages saying, 'I am holding my position.' We are not holding a Goddamned thing. Let the Germans do that. We are advancing constantly and we are not interested in holding onto anything, except the enemy's balls. We are going to twist his balls and kick the living **** out of him all of the time. Our basic plan of operation is to advance and to keep on advancing regardless of whether we have to go over, under, or through the enemy. We are going to go through him like crap through a goose; like **** through a tin horn!

     From time to time there will be some complaints that we are pushing our people too hard. I don't give a good Goddamn about such complaints. I believe in the old and sound rule that an ounce of sweat will save a gallon of blood. The harder WE push, the more Germans we will kill. The more Germans we kill, the fewer of our men will be killed. Pushing means fewer casualties. I want you all to remember that.

     There is one great thing that you men will all be able to say after this war is over and you are home once again. You may be thankful that twenty years from now when you are sitting by the fireplace with your grandson on your knee and he asks you what you did in the great World War II, you WON'T have to cough, shift him to the other knee and say, 'Well, your Granddaddy shoveled **** in Louisiana.' No, Sir, you can look him straight in the eye and say, 'Son, your Granddaddy rode with the Great Third Army and a Son-of-a-Goddamned-Bitch named Georgie Patton!' "That is all."


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## Mac (Nov 12, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

Freakin' Patton - Ike had to rein him in or else he would have driven all the way to Moscow!

3rd AD AIR CAV vet Mac


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## conarb (Nov 12, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

And if Ike had let Patton take out the Russians and then Truman had let MacArthur take out the Chinese, we wojldn't be in the Communistic/Socialistic/totalitarian mess we are in today. 





			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> MacArthur returned to Washington, D.C. (his first time in the continental U.S. in 11 years), where he made his last public appearance in a farewell address to the U.S. Congress, interrupted by thirty ovations.[46] In his closing speech, he recalled: "Old soldiers never die; they just fade away... And like the old soldier of that ballad, I now close my military career and just fade away — an old soldier who tried to do his duty as God gave him the light to see that duty. Good-bye."In 1945, MacArthur gave his Gold Castles engineers' insignia to his chief engineer, Jack Sverdrup. This insignia continues to be worn by the Army's Chief of Engineers as a tradition.
> 
> On his return from Korea, after his relief by Truman, MacArthur encountered massive public adulation, which aroused expectations that he would run for the presidency as a Republican in the 1952 election. However, a U.S. Senate Committee investigation of his removal (which largely vindicated the actions taken by President Truman), chaired by Democrat Richard Russell, contributed to a marked cooling of the public mood, and hopes for a MacArthur presidential run died away. MacArthur, in Reminiscences, repeatedly stated he had no political aspirations.¹


The Russian Communists failed, but the Chinese Communists are cleaning our clocks today, economically and now gearing up for war to take Taiwan, meanwhile we are educating 80,000 Chinese citizens right now to the profit of our educational/scientific complex, despite Eisenhower's dramatic warning.





			
				From Eisenhower said:
			
		

> In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
> 
> Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.
> 
> ...


We here are witnessing it first hand, with first the fire sprinkler industry cramming their products down our collective throats, now Eisenhower's "scientific-technological elite" cramming a trumped up energy crises down our collective throats with Energy Codes, and Green Building Codes, and the building inspectors here will be the gestapo enforcing these self-serving codes. As a disenfranchised resident of Ecotopia I am virtually powerless, but where are our brave denizens of Texas, Idaho, Vermont and other freedom-loving states?  Standing by and watching the takeover (well, maybe not Pack). 

¹ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_MacArthur

² http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ike.htm


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## jpranch (Nov 14, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

canarb, Good post. Been quite a while since I have read that.

Paraphrased: "Those who do not remember history are dombed to repeat it".   :roll:


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## conarb (Nov 14, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

RJJ:

Ever notice how the Socialists love to quote the "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex." part, but never quote the "we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite." part?


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## RickAstoria (Nov 15, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration



			
				peach said:
			
		

> including CNN.. I'll do it here..We went to Afghanistan to eliminate the threat to our country (Al-Queda).. not to establish a democracy.  We need the resolve to do what we are there to do, and leave the internal politics to the Afghans..
> 
> The British couldn't do it.. the Soviets couldn't do it.. we can't either..
> 
> ...


It would be so much nicer if bin Laden wasn't a CIA operative agent. That's just the tip of the iceberg of what is scary.


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## rktect 1 (Nov 16, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration



			
				jpranch said:
			
		

> canarb, Good post. Been quite a while since I have read that. Paraphrased: "Those who do not remember history are dombed to repeat it".   :roll:


Even those who do remember history, for some reason, like to repeat it.  :roll:


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## Uncle Bob (Nov 22, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

Peach,

"We went to Afghanistan to eliminate the threat to our country (Al-Queda).. not to establish a democracy. We need the resolve to do what we are there to do, and leave the internal politics to the Afghans.. "

Since the neo-socialists have taken over "our" government; there is nothing you can do.

However, taking a lesson from Castro; one way to clean up America and solve "our" problem in Afghanistan would be to load up all the "oppressed" people that fill our prisons; and all known "underprivilaged" gang members that terrorize our citizens, onto troop ships and turn them loose at the Afganistan/Pakistan border.

Uncle Bob


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## jpranch (Nov 22, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

It is a sad day in Gillette. This story has been repeated countless times across the country. Plaese read the attached artical.

http://www.gillettenewsrecord.com/artic ... news01.txt


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## jpranch (Nov 22, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

5 miles of cars, trucks, and people to pay respect lined up on both sides of the road. It was a very moving afternoon.


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## jar546 (Nov 22, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration



			
				jpranch said:
			
		

> 5 miles of cars, trucks, and people to pay respect lined up on both sides of the road. It was a very moving afternoon.


Unfortunately we have the exact same situation in my area again.  The body of the most recent serviceman killed was unloaded at Dover last night.  God bless the families of all servicemen.


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## jar546 (Nov 26, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

He is back home.  Remember him and those who suffered the same fate.

http://www.timesleader.com/news/Patton_rsquo_s_body_back_home_11-26-2009.html


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## mtlogcabin (Nov 30, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

I recommend this film. I found it at Block Busters this summer. The respect that is given to those that have fallen on their final journey home is emotional to say the least. It reminded me to thank those serving past and present whenever I have the opportunity.

http://www.hbo.com/films/takingchance/s ... index.html


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## jim baird (Nov 30, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

I think Northstar pegged it.

A big part of status quo has an interest in All War All the Time.

I think Obama is being led down the garden path by his generals, who can always find somebody to fight.

Afghanistan will not end soon, will not end amicably, will not end with anyone victorious, may not ever end.

The real danger zone, my friends, is Pakistan, where nukes will soon be in the hands of extremists after the last of the Western powers' puppet regimes collapses.

Asking the generals what they need is like my wife asking the guy at the honey bake ham store how much ham she should buy.  She brought home about four times what was needed.


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## jpranch (Dec 2, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

Said it before and will say it again. Rules of engagement? What a crock of stuff. Bomb the cities. Make war on the civilian population. Burn every bridge, grain mill, kill all livestock, blow-up every well, steal everything and "make them so sick of war". Parapharsed from General Phil Sheridan still known in the south as "that barn burning SOB".

For those Patriots in the south I have a Confederate flag tatooed on my right arm. Just so you know where I'm coming from.


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## RJJ (Dec 3, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

JP: Sheridan and Sherman both employed some brutal tactics during those campaigns! Just think we were killing each other! Something to reflect on. Don't know myself if we have reached that point. I know first hand that in a bar fight, it is he that gets there first, with the most, wins. However, we are supposed to be civilized with rules! Hard choices!

We read daily of fallen soldiers in all the papers across the country. Today Pa, tomorrow NJ or NY or CA we need to hold them up and remember them. The politicians and generals will always lead us some place, I figure. History will decipher if it was right or wrong. America faces many problems and there are many a faction that would like nothing better then march through us like Sheridan or Sherman. This is where we need to stand fast today and give thanks to those in harms way that protect us. God Bless and protect our troops! Keep their families safe with a light left on for their safe return.


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## FM William Burns (Dec 3, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

Rjj:  Not so fast my friend........ It's not always the one who lands the first one who wins.  Back in my college days I was in a bar and talking to a nice girl      Well a guy came in later a landed a sucker punch on me.  I got up, did a little investigative work and found him across the bridge in another state and finished what he started.  I landed in a cell for the rest of the weekend since i threw the first one in that state........DOH........ did I win?  I guess so since I got out on Monday and once the Judge verified my story, he paid all costs and had to eat through a straw for months.  I'm much calmer now though


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## fatboy (Dec 3, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration



			
				mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> I recommend this film. I found it at Block Busters this summer. The respect that is given to those that have fallen on their final journey home is emotional to say the least. It reminded me to thank those serving past and present whenever I have the opportunity.http://www.hbo.com/films/takingchance/s ... index.html


I agree MLC, extremely moving picture, particullarly when you have loved ones deployed. WOW, have a box of kleenex close at hand. The respect shown was incredible.


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## Mac (Dec 3, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

(note to self - do NOT mess with FMWB!)


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## RJJ (Dec 3, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

FM: The last part of that statement was the most. Now if he had kick your teeth down your throat, bit of one of your ears, broke your knee cap you would not have to travel to another state and end up in a cell! Getting there first is only part of the equation! Now did she have nice shoes? :lol:


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## FM William Burns (Dec 3, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

Rjj:

Yep, can’t just take matters in my own hands like those days anymore, I’m a professional :mrgreen:

Getting back on topic and sorry guys..........MT that is moving film that I’m not ashamed to admit tore me up just as the Pat Tillman story did.

Fatboy:  Your son and all serving are in my prayer list each and every morning and evening.


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## InspMO (Dec 5, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

"Taking Chance" is a great movie that will make you choke up. It is something everyone should watch that cares. That fact that it had two main characters, one you only see in pictures, and little dialog it was very moving.


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## cda (Dec 7, 2009)

Re: since there's not other place to post my frustration

Well December 7 TH.

My Dad was on the USS San Francisco when Pearl Harbor happened. He got bumped around a little.

Pearl Harbor Attack

On 7 December 1941, San Francisco was in Pearl Harbor and was awaiting docking and the cleaning of her heavily fouled bottom. Her engineering plant was largely broken down for overhaul. Ammunition for her 5 in (130 mm) and 8 in (200 mm) guns had been placed in storage. Her 3 in (76 mm) guns had been removed to permit installation of four 1.1 in (28 mm) quadruple mounts. The 1.1 in (28 mm) mounts had not been installed. Her .50 in (12.7 mm) machine guns were being overhauled. Only small arms and two .30 in (7.6 mm) machine guns were available. Moreover, a number of San Francisco's officers and men were absent.

At 0755, Japanese planes began bombing dives on Ford Island, and by 0800, the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor was well underway. The men in San Francisco secured the ship for watertightness and began looking for opportunities to fight back. Some crossed to New Orleans to help man antiaircraft batteries on that ship. Others began using available rifles and machine guns. Ammunition for .50 in (12.7 mm) machine guns was transferred to Tracy for use.

San Francisco was not bombed or damaged during the Japanese air raid. After the attack was over, work resumed to make San Francisco seaworthy and combat-ready.


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