# Philadelphia. Exit onto sidewalk with diamond plate doors



## TFL Philly (Nov 13, 2017)

I have a client who would like to put a new exit/entrance door from apartments that exit onto the public sidewalk. The question is can you put this door where they would exit onto one of those sidewalk diamond plate cellar doors even if the cellar doors are not used?


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## steveray (Nov 13, 2017)

Define "not used".....Not required? Weld the plates in place?


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## cda (Nov 13, 2017)

Welcome,

Not from back east so not sure what """"diamond plate cellar doors"''''  are?

This:::  https://www.cellardoors.com/diamond-plate-doors/index.html??

If so they are made for walking on, Only thing would be slip hazard, if covered with snow or ice, and someone doe not know to take it a little easy?


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## TFL Philly (Nov 13, 2017)

steveray said:


> Define "not used".....Not required? Weld the plates in place?


My client says they havent ever used those doors and dont use them.  I was thinking to weld them unusable as well. just not sure if this is allowable under code as I cant find anything about this in the codes


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## TFL Philly (Nov 13, 2017)

cda said:


> Welcome,
> 
> Not from back east so not sure what """"diamond plate cellar doors"''''  are?
> 
> ...


 
Yessir! those are exactly what I am talking about.


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## Rick18071 (Nov 13, 2017)

First I would see if the IBC requires an exit access from the basement before welding these door closed complying with sections 1003 to 1019. If the building is not sprinklered also check section 903.2.11.1 "Stories without openings". Then make sure the landing at this door compiles with sections 1008.1.5 and 1008.1.6


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## Rick18071 (Nov 13, 2017)

Also make sure the landing complies with the load requirements of a landing in Chapter 16.


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## Pcinspector1 (Nov 13, 2017)

Will the exit door swing out over the cellar doors (sidewalk) or will the new exit be in-set into the building? Reason I'm asking, may need to re-think the location if doing the in-set design.


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## cda (Nov 13, 2017)

TFL Philly said:


> My client says they havent ever used those doors and dont use them.  I was thinking to weld them unusable as well. just not sure if this is allowable under code as I cant find anything about this in the codes




Maybe if not needed by code,, just remove the doors and seal with something concrete, brick what ever??


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## TFL Philly (Nov 13, 2017)

yeah door will open out over the inactive cellar doors but codes dont say anything about if this is allowed.


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## fatboy (Nov 13, 2017)

Not sure about your local code, but the 2015 IBC is clear on it;

*
3202.2 Encroachments above grade and below 8 feet in


height. *Encroachments into the public right-of-way above


grade and below 8 feet (2438 mm) in height shall be prohibited

except as provided for in Sections 3202.2.1 through

3202.2.3. *Doors and windows shall not open or project into

 
the public right-of-way.*


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## TFL Philly (Nov 13, 2017)

fatboy said:


> Not sure about your local code, but the 2015 IBC is clear on it;
> 
> *
> 3202.2 Encroachments above grade and below 8 feet in
> ...




But this I dont think talks about can a door/exit open so that the egress is stepping onto the diamondplate doors which are already on the sidewalk


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## fatboy (Nov 13, 2017)

No, it speaks to not allowing a door to open into the public right-of-way.

The landing question is a non-issue if the door is not allowed.

Does the proposed door open into the ROW?

Your OP seemed to suggest that.


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## TFL Philly (Nov 13, 2017)

fatboy said:


> No, it speaks to not allowing a door to open into the public right-of-way.
> 
> The landing question is a non-issue if the door is not allowed.
> 
> ...




gotcha... the door is allowed


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## fatboy (Nov 13, 2017)

Then I guess as long as;

they are not required for the basement
they meet the loading requirements
they are slip-resistant
they meet all the other requirements for a landing
fixed in placed permanently
*and the AHJ buys off on them*
I don't see an apparent reason that they would not qualify as a landing.


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## north star (Nov 13, 2017)

*% ~ %*

How would one ensure that the diamond plate doors
are made to be slip resistant ?........If the doors are
already in-place, is there already pedestrian traffic
crossing them ?........That said, IMO, these metal doors
sure do appear to be accident waiting to happen,
especially if on either side of them is concrete.

*% ~ %*


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## CityKin (Nov 14, 2017)

These sidewalk hatch doors are everywhere in the public sidewalks in my jurisdiction, and yes they are more slippery than brush-finished concrete sidewalk.  they are existing encroachments and are allowed to remain as long as they are maintained.

In this situation, my only concern would be that if the hatch is open, then egress is blocked ... or you egress directly into the basement ..very quickly.


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## VillageInspector (Nov 14, 2017)

Seems to me that everyone missed Fatboys point and that is the language of *3202.2 which seems to prohibit the opening of the door onto the public right of way regardless of the sidewalk cellar doors. *


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## Rick18071 (Nov 14, 2017)

I used to live in Philly and they are all over the place in business areas. And they are slippery and have latches and hinges that you can trip on. Sometimes they have a slope more than 2% and stick out above the sidewalk surface. These things are old and most times rickety. In most cases I would not approve as a landing.


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## Paul Sweet (Nov 16, 2017)

"Doors and windows shall not open or project into the public right-of-way."

You can't have an outswinging door that opens INTO the public ROW, but you can have an inswinging door that opens ONTO the public ROW (or an outswinging door in a recess).

I don't think that the diamond plate surface is as much of a concern as somebody not knowing the hatch is never used and opening it.  They should be permanently prevented from being opened.


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