# what's wrong? It's resting on the roof.



## bgingras (Aug 10, 2011)

ummm...yeah, such as easy job to have actually landed the 12' long lvl on a post. 4 plan reviews before a permit and this is the result. Licensed individual says " we have never done any of this before, we are still figuring it out." Trouble with the down economy is that guys that have unrestricted licenses that they got grandfathered way back are now taking jobs for work they know nothing about. He still doesn't understand why the lvl cannot be supported like this.

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## ICE (Aug 10, 2011)

That's the best picture I've seen in a long time.  I have a newfound respect for the strength of roof sheathing.


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## steveray (Aug 10, 2011)

It's just a firecut....jeez you are so hard on them!


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## bgingras (Aug 10, 2011)

He just called me to tell me he is now going to notch the end and put a stuf in the notch. He said he has a report showing he only needs an lvl of 7 1/4" wide and the notch will be 7 1/4" from the edge...i told him make sure the report is on site showing he can do what he claims. I'm sure the argument tomorrow is going to start with "what do you mean I can't cut a 14" lvl down to 7 1 1/4 and and use it as a 7 1/4?" and "Why doesn't the notch to 7 1 /4" make it a real 7 1/4" lvl?"


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## steveray (Aug 10, 2011)

And your answer would be....Because the manufacturer says so.....I imagine.....


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## bgingras (Aug 10, 2011)

Actually, I usually ask for someone to show me where the manufacture specifies that type of connection.


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## Pcinspector1 (Aug 10, 2011)

The framer, (installer) did'nt have a Lincoln Log set as a kid, did he!

That's just sad!

pc1


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## Alias (Aug 10, 2011)

Amazing, absolutely amazing..........


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## DRP (Aug 10, 2011)

LVL is not prohibited from ripping the way graded dimensional lumber is. Being comprised of many layers stress reducing defects are well distributed and do not revolve around member depth. They are ripped from large billets at the plant. A tapered cut from a notch to full depth is the best way to reduce the shearing stress concentrating at the notch. It might be ugly but a favorable report would not suprise me on that aspect.


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## Daddy-0- (Aug 10, 2011)

This might get interesting now. Popcorn anyone?


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## Mark K (Aug 11, 2011)

The referenced standards in the IBC provide clear guidance on how to derate the member when there is a notch at the support.  The provisions were developed for sawn lumber and the LVL is manufactured lumber so the problem will not be as severe so the code provisions are conservative.  The bevel will be better than a notch.  This is definately not a situation that is covered by the IRC and you need an engineer to evaluate it.

What concerns me more is what the beam is or isn't supported on.  It is not clear.


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## chris kennedy (Aug 11, 2011)

What is 'LVL'?


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## DRP (Aug 11, 2011)

Laminated Veneer Lumber... microllam, versalam, etc. Basically structural plywood beams with all the plies running lengthwise. It is a bit over twice as strong in bending, a good bit stiffer and has about double the shear strength of sawn lumber.

As strong as it is, it still need to bear on something capable of supporting the load.


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## steveray (Aug 11, 2011)

Anti gravity paint.......


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## bgingras (Aug 11, 2011)

Mark K said:
			
		

> What concerns me more is what the beam is or isn't supported on.  It is not clear.


the beam was specified to have 3" of bearing at the end, it was supposed to be on the corner post of the house. It was to be a solid post, to the floor frame and blocked to the foundation...this is not that.


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## rktect 1 (Aug 11, 2011)

If a 7 1/4" LVL was all that was required to begin with, why did he specify a much larger and more costly piece of engineered lumber?  He is making this stuff up as he goes along.  Time to tell him to pull the unusable 14" lvl  and install either a new 14" lvl or provide the calcs showing the new sized member and install that one.  Probably could just go to the span tables for the product on this one.


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## brudgers (Aug 11, 2011)

bgingras said:
			
		

> the beam was specified to have 3" of bearing at the end, it was supposed to be on the corner post of the house. It was to be a solid post, to the floor frame and blocked to the foundation...this is not that.


  Looks at least 3" deep to me.


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## bgingras (Aug 11, 2011)

DRP said:
			
		

> LVL is not prohibited from ripping the way graded dimensional lumber is. Being comprised of many layers stress reducing defects are well distributed and do not revolve around member depth. They are ripped from large billets at the plant. A tapered cut from a notch to full depth is the best way to reduce the shearing stress concentrating at the notch. It might be ugly but a favorable report would not suprise me on that aspect.


since I'm in the mood to debate this...are you saying that you know for a a fact that this 14" lvl when ripped to 7 1/4" is identical in all ways to a NEW 7 1/4" lvl from the manufacturerer.


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## Pcinspector1 (Aug 11, 2011)

I was at a fee market last week, I'm pretty sure they had some #5 sky hooks, you could have got them real cheap, I bet they sold em!

Did'nt see any anti-gravity paint!

pc1


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## Pcinspector1 (Aug 11, 2011)

chris kennedy said:
			
		

> What is 'LVL'?


Lost Viginia Lovers!

pc1


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## DRP (Aug 11, 2011)

bgingras said:
			
		

> since I'm in the mood to debate this...are you saying that you know for a a fact that this 14" lvl when ripped to 7 1/4" is identical in all ways to a NEW 7 1/4" lvl from the manufacturerer.


 Yes, that is my understanding and in fact what showed up on my current job I needed a mix of 11-7/8 and 11-1/4" lvl's. The 11-1/4's had been ripped from wider material.

BUT... I'll ask the APA helpdesk to comment so we all know for sure.


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## DRP (Aug 11, 2011)

Actually, I was opening the contact page and decided to try a search on their site, see if this link satisfies. Read the section on the manufacture of lvl's. I'd be happy to check with the helpdesk if you'd like to check it further.

http://www.apawood.org/level_b.cfm?content=prd_lvl_main

From my understanding, if a 7-1/4" satisfies then he could rip the bottom off. This would not make a stronger beam, the most efficient beam is shaped like a brontosaurus. He's kinda done that to the ugly end.


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## bgingras (Aug 12, 2011)

ok, BUT a website discribing the manufacturing process is way different than a manufacturer specifiying that their product may be modified in such a way.


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## mtlogcabin (Aug 12, 2011)

Aren't you in a pretty high wind area? Doesn't the beam need to have a 1000 pound strap installed connected to a post and a 1000 pound anchor? How is that going to be accomplished? I am looking at 2009 _R602.10.3.2 Method ABW: Alternate braced wall panels. _and thinking it should apply to this opening.


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## Paul Sweet (Aug 12, 2011)

LVLs are manufactured with the veneers running vertically and only a few small knots.  Their strength is constant with depth, unlike glulam beams which often use a better grade of lumber for the top & bottom and lower grades in the middle.  Ripping an LVL will produce less change in strength than ripping a 2-by which can have large knots.


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## bgingras (Aug 12, 2011)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Aren't you in a pretty high wind area? Doesn't the beam need to have a 1000 pound strap installed connected to a post and a 1000 pound anchor? How is that going to be accomplished? I am looking at 2009 _R602.10.3.2 Method ABW: Alternate braced wall panels. _and thinking it should apply to this opening.


they have fixed it and installed the ties all the way to the piers. Brace walls are also all set with it connected on an inside corner of a home with continuously sheathed walls.


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## High Desert (Aug 12, 2011)

I take it his is a garage door? Just move the post over to the right where the beam has full bearing, pour a new concrete pad under the post that will support the weight.....and park your car on its side.


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## bgingras (Aug 12, 2011)

screen porch addition, 12 x 20 on an existing deck with new footings. the roof line is a real trip. they put a gable next to the exiting gable on the first plan then got confused when about how they were going to deal with the lack of pitch where the 2 roof lines tied in. The second plan then came in with a funky cricket type detail to go between the 2 roof lies forming 2 valleys that dump out where the addition attaches to the house. Upon inspection I also found that the elevations were different than on the plan, the cricket did not exted the 2 valleys to the end of the house, thus creating the same bowl effect as the first plan. They still seem confused by it all.


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## DRP (Aug 18, 2011)

bgingras said:
			
		

> ok, BUT a website discribing the manufacturing process is way different than a manufacturer specifiying that their product may be modified in such a way.


I recieved a response from the APA helpdesk to this question;



> Can I rip LVL's in the field and not lose the stated design values for
> 
> the product? In other words if I rip a 14" lvl down to 7.25" is it the
> 
> same as a factory supplied 7-1/4" lvl?


The response was as expected but well stated... make sure his calcs or table is for this lvl;



> If the ripped LVL is from the same producer, and of the same species and grade, and the same size as the "factory supplied" member the characteristics will be the same.


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## MASSDRIVER (Dec 16, 2012)

I have a stupid question; What if he flipped it upside down? Put the cut at the top?


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## fatboy (Dec 16, 2012)

Welcome to the forum massdriver............


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## Frank (Dec 18, 2012)

A second king post 2x at the end should give adequate bearing, need to check if adequate section left at support for shear.


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## TheCommish (Dec 19, 2012)

Lots of cutting for a bad install, there looks to be enough room to have rested the full high LVL heal on the exteror wall with a post. Or now close the end in a foot and put a post and proper bearing undeg the post


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## Mac (Dec 19, 2012)

It's a piece of engineered lumber - let the engineer recommend a solution.

My money would be on something like "Replace the........"


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## fehujber (Jan 14, 2013)

We obviously do not fully understand the value and strength of structural air! Silly rabbits!


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## MASSDRIVER (Jan 16, 2013)

fatboy said:
			
		

> Welcome to the forum massdriver............


Geez. Belated. Thank you for the welcome. I noticed two intro threads above. Which one do I post to?

Brent.


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## BSSTG (Jan 16, 2013)

Greetings,

engineered product. get an engineer.

BS


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