# 30 occupant Group A, B & F on 2nd floor - single exit



## sergoodo (Jun 19, 2019)

Non Sprinkled Building
Does the A Group with 30 occupants require <100' egress?


EGRESS TRAVEL DISTANCE
0’<exit access...exit access stair>75’<exit><exit level of discharge>75’
0’<            2nd floor                    >     <                1st Floor               > 75’
*Table 1006.2.1*
Non Sprinklered <30 Occupants
EGRESS <75’  Groups A&F
EGRESS <100’  Groups B & Group A (<50occ load)
_*1006.3.2 Single exits.*
A single exit or access to a single exit shall be permitted from any story or occupied roof where one of the following conditions exists:
2.Rooms, areas and spaces complying with Section 1006.2.1 with exits that discharge directly to the exterior at the level of exit discharge, are permitted to have one exit or access to a single exit._​


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## JPohling (Jun 19, 2019)

Group A requires 75' max common path regardless of the occupant load, not 100'


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## cda (Jun 19, 2019)

ok back step

If you have 30 or less, in what looks like a Group A,,,

You might not be a Group A????

B??


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## RLGA (Jun 19, 2019)

If you’re less than 50 occupants, it is not a Group A, but probably a Group B. For a single exit from a second story Group B, the occupant load is limited to 29–above 29 (i.e., 30) requires two exits.


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## sergoodo (Jun 19, 2019)

RLGA said:


> If you’re less than 50 occupants, it is not a Group A, but probably a Group B. For a single exit from a second story Group B, the occupant load is limited to 29–above 29 (i.e., 30) requires two exits.


RLGA, please tell me the reference of this further limitation down to 29 occupants.   After the CPET >75 feet the 2nd exit is required > 29 occupants?  

Or  2015 IBC Table 1006.2.1 has Group B limit at 49 occupants for single 2nd floor exit requirement modified elsewhere?


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## JPohling (Jun 19, 2019)

I agree, less than 50 occupants would be a "B"


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## RLGA (Jun 19, 2019)

sergoodo said:


> RLGA, please tell me the reference of this further limitation down to 29 occupants.   After the CPET >75 feet the 2nd exit is required > 29 occupants?
> 
> Or  2015 IBC Table 1006.2.1 has Group B limit at 49 occupants for single 2nd floor exit requirement modified elsewhere?


Table 1006.3.2(2) per Section 1006.3.2, Condition 1. Condition 2 permits only rooms and spaces to have a single exit to the exterior if they are on the level of exit discharge; if on the second story, going down stairs is not considered to be discharging at the level of exit discharge.


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## RLGA (Jun 19, 2019)

Also, Table 1006.2.1 is for “spaces” only—not stories.


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## sergoodo (Jun 19, 2019)

RLGA said:


> Table 1006.3.2(2) per Section 1006.3.2, Condition 1. Condition 2 permits only rooms and spaces to have a single exit to the exterior if they are on the level of exit discharge; if on the second story, going down stairs is not considered to be discharging at the level of exit discharge.



*Bang harder, I disagree. *"Table 1006.2.1 is for “spaces” only—not stories." is the best place to bang.

1006.3.2(2) STORIES WITH ONE EXIT OR ACCESS TO ONE EXIT FOR OTHER OCCUPANCIES
Clarify how to determine which table appropriate to use...they conflict.

THIS is the conflict

You can have 49 people on the 2nd story in a Group B room with access to only one (1) of the two (2) exits BUT the one (1) exit CPET must be <75’  that discharge directly to the exterior at the level of exit discharge.
You cannot have 49 people on the 2nd story in a Group B building with access to only one (1) exit with CPET <75’  that discharge directly to the exterior at the level of exit discharge.




CPET<75’ single exit is permitted from any story with an exit that discharges directly to exterior..If you are in a second floor room open the door directly to the stairwell, you are still in the exit access portion and have not reached the exit discharge.  The door at the bottom of the stairs is another exit access doorway; and if terminates/discharges to the exterior/public way; and you have traveled less than 75’: The IBC says complies with the absolute minimum safety requirements.


1006.2.3 says “any story”, IBC would have clarified with “located on a floor other than a level of exit discharge”, as it did so in the sprinkler posting.



IBC 2015
1006.3.2 Single exits.
A single exit or access to a single exit shall be permitted from any story or occupied roof where one of the following conditions exists:
2. Rooms, areas and spaces complying with Section 1006.2.1 with exits that discharge directly to the exterior at the level of exit discharge, are permitted to have one exit or access to a single exit.


*EXIT ACCESS*. That portion of a means of egress system that* leads from any occupied portion of a building* or structure to an exit.
*EXIT ACCESS STAIRWAY.* A stairway with the *exit access portion* of the means of egress system.
*EXIT.* That *portion* of a means of egress system *between the exit access and the exit discharge *or public way. Exit components include exterior exit doors at the level of exit discharge, interior exit stairways and ramps, exit passageways, exterior exit stairways and ramps and horizontal exits.
*EXIT DISCHARGE.* That *portion* of a means of egress system between the termination of an exit and a public way.
*LEVEL OF EXIT DISCHARGE.* *The story* at the point at which *an exit terminates and an exit discharge begins.




*


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## RLGA (Jun 20, 2019)

I disagree. By your logic, I could have a Group B sprinklered building of multiple stories (3 plus) with only one stairway as long as the exit discharges directly to the exterior at the level of exit discharge (nearly all exit stairs must, so nothing unique there), the occupant load does not exceed 49, and the CPET does not exceed 100 ft. That is not the intent—you’re reading more into the condition than what was intended. Condition 2 does not apply to stories. Period.

You can try it, but I doubt it will make it through the first plan review without pushback from the B.O. I personally would not approve it and, as an architect, I would not put my seal on it.


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## sergoodo (Jun 24, 2019)

RLGA said:


> I disagree. By your logic,



Not my logic. The logic of 1006.3.2 stating 'single exit shall be permitted from any story'. I agree, not understood, requires a clarification or correction. 

Nothing to try, just processing TPS reports: 1006.3.2 reports coming back not possible for single exit rooms or spaces to use maximum occupancy loads on '_Table 1006.2.1'_  for any other story than the ground floor level of exit discharge.


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## mtlogcabin (Jun 24, 2019)

2018 IBC  don't have a 2015
1006.1 General.
The number of exits or exit access doorways required within the means of egress system shall comply with the provisions of Section 1006.2 for spaces, including mezzanines, *and Section 1006.3 for stories* or occupied roofs.

You cannot use 1006.2 for a story above grade plane


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## sergoodo (Jul 11, 2019)

Diagram of 2 rooms with 30 occ of the building's 2nd floor with 2 exits directly to exterior 

<  EXIT  30occ   [partition]   30occ  EXIT >

I say each room requires 2 exits or is this the 1006.3.2 logic if <75' exit access to the discharge?


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## RLGA (Jul 11, 2019)

sergoodo said:


> Diagram of 2 rooms with 30 occ of the building's 2nd floor with 2 exits directly to exterior
> 
> <  EXIT  30occ   [partition]   30occ  EXIT >
> 
> I say each room requires 2 exits or is this the 1006.3.2 logic if <75' exit access to the discharge?


I agree; every occupant on the second story must have access to two exits. The story, as a whole, is considered when applying Table 1006.3.2(2).


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