# unpermited 2nd dwelling



## charlie (Oct 19, 2011)

I am looking for ideas on how to handle unpermitted second residences. We have a number of detached garages or shop buildings that have been converted into second residences with out the benifit of a permit. Most of them were done as far back as 20 to 40 years ago. Where and how do you go about either making them legal and code compliant. Most of these are now owned by some one that thought they were buying a piece of property with two residence.:cheers


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## fatboy (Oct 19, 2011)

20-40 yrs old....I'd be looking the other way. Let zoning worry about it if they can.


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## mtlogcabin (Oct 19, 2011)

fatboy said:
			
		

> 20-40 yrs old....I'd be looking the other way. Let zoning worry about it if they can.


Agree. Did you even have adopted building codes back then?


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## charlie (Oct 19, 2011)

What if it was converted 10 to 20 years ago?


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## brudgers (Oct 19, 2011)

charlie said:
			
		

> What if it was converted 10 to 20 years ago?


   If it makes a difference in enforcement, burden of proof should rest with the entity responsible for keeping records...aka, your office.


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## steveray (Oct 19, 2011)

If they want to make it legit,...permitted and inspected per current code....if they don't, they don't!


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## gbhammer (Oct 19, 2011)

Grandfather gets a lot of calls on places like that.


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## fatboy (Oct 19, 2011)

I guess one question to be asked is, what is the intent of making them "legal", after 10-20 years? You are 3-4-5 owners down the road......what is to gain by stirring the pot? Are they unsafe? Again, is it a zoning issue?


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## Yankee (Oct 19, 2011)

20 years old, , or 15 and maybe 10, court probably will not uphold any type of enforcement action for zoning. Best bet is to be able to do an inspection for basic safety when the property comes under your attention for some other reason. One notable exception would be if a given property is on a septic system and they are over their design flow or don't have an approved design. or their system craps out. You have a lot of clout with that.


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## ICE (Oct 19, 2011)

charlie said:
			
		

> I am looking for ideas on how to handle unpermitted second residences. We have a number of detached garages or shop buildings that have been converted into second residences with out the benifit of a permit. We have a number of detached garages or shop buildings that have been converted into second residences with out the benifit of a permit.Where and how do you go about either making them legal and code compliant. Most of these are now owned by some one that thought they were buying a piece of property with two residence.:cheers


*"I am looking for ideas"*  Is it just you?  If the impetus comes from you, the problem is easy to solve.  If it is a supervisor, peer, politician or citizen complaint, then it gets difficult.  Once you get started, there is no way out except quasi compliance.

*We have a number of detached garages or shop buildings that have been converted into second residences with out the benefit of a permit.*  Is it 5, 55 or 555?  We have them by the thousands.  The approach will be dramatically different depending on the scope of the problem.  The lay of the land makes a difference.  The relative affluence of the community plays a role.  The laws, codes and ordinances matter but not as much as people are led to believe.

*Where and how do you go about either making them legal and code compliant.*  You don't.  The owners do.  The obvious place to start is with the planning hurdles.  That can be costly, so for the ones that you know will require a near tear down and start over, make sure that the owner understands that she may be out a few thousand dollars only to be told no by the building department.  If there is no foundation and one electrical circuit, etc., the owner should have all the facts going into it.

*Most of these are now owned by some one that thought they were buying a piece of property with two residence.*  They think that because that's what they did.  The fact that one of the residences is not legal may have not come up before now.

In as much as I am inundated with bootleg dwellings, it's a case by case determination.  Some are done well and some are, well, done.  I make a decision on the spot.  I give them a scope of work and 30 days to submit an application or obtain a permit to turn it back to it's original use.  Often enough, the structure will be back to bare bones with a major retrofit.  Occasionally the entire structure must be removed.

If you're a thinker, you've already come to the conclusion that not many go through the process of becoming legal given that there are >100,000 within a 50 mile radius of my office.  As a percentage of the total in existence, the premise is correct.  As a percentage of active permits they are noteworthy.

In all cases, I leave a notice not to occupy.  The rat holes I run across get special attention.  I had one that was a horse barn and each stall had a locked door.  Seven in all.  Drop cords for power, no windows and only one way out.  The big stall at the end housed the owners daughter.  She was into tie dye sheets hanging from the ceiling and candles.  The owner offered to install smoke detectors.  I told him that's a great idea, everybody will be awake, cursing him as the die.

Tiger


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