# Accessibility Violations Photo



## jar546 (Feb 5, 2020)

How many accessibility non-compliance issues do you see?


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## e hilton (Feb 5, 2020)

None, because its not designated as an accessible restroom. 

Obviously the soap dispenser ... never seen that before.  Side clearance on the sink.


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## jar546 (Feb 5, 2020)

e hilton said:


> None, because its not designated as an accessible restroom.
> 
> Obviously the soap dispenser ... never seen that before.  Side clearance on the sink.



Actually, it is designated as accessible.


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## e hilton (Feb 5, 2020)

Sorry, i didn't see the sign on the door.  Its obviously there in error, the room is not accessible.


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## Rick18071 (Feb 5, 2020)

e hilton said:


> None, because its not designated as an accessible restroom.
> 
> Obviously the soap dispenser ... never seen that before.  Side clearance on the sink.



ICC/ANSI A117.1 - 2009 section 606.78 Operable Parts on towel dispensers and hand dryers shall comply with TABLE  606.7.

Nothing about soap dispensers

Need a tape measure to check other things.


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## Pcinspector1 (Feb 5, 2020)

Baby changing station interferes with front approach to sink basin.

Vanity sink should have 30-inches of width, the towel/trash receptacle appears to encroach into the required sink area.

If you have a mirror, it needs to meet tilt and height requirements, can't tell from photo.

Soap dispenser too high, if provided needs to be no higher than 40-inches


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## ADAguy (Feb 5, 2020)

Soap is an accessory, 40" max. to operable part. Changing table may be an obstruction.


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## mark handler (Feb 5, 2020)

Rick18071 said:


> ICC/ANSI A117.1 - 2009 section 606.78 Operable Parts on towel dispensers and hand dryers shall comply with TABLE  606.7.
> 
> Nothing about soap dispensers
> 
> Need a tape measure to check other things.


*And that is one of the reasons ANSI is not Law/Code
To many Holes....


ADASAD Advisory 606.1 General.* If soap and towel dispensers are provided, they must be located within the reach ranges specified in 308. Locate soap and towel dispensers so that they are conveniently usable by a person at the accessible lavatory.


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## Mech (Feb 5, 2020)

The mirror does not appear to have a tilt to it.  What code / standard requires a tilt?  I do not see the requirement in A117.1-2009; maybe I missed it.

The sign next to the toilet room door (mirror reflection) looks awfully high.  I cannot tell what is on the sign.

The partition door in the open position may interfere with the toilet room door.  I cannot tell.

A partition door is supposed to close automatically.  This one looks like it stays open.

The distance between doors is supposed to have a 30x48 space, if I recall correctly, between the two doors.

Assuming the shortest acceptable length grab bar was installed and was installed correctly, the paper towel / garbage can combination is close to the grab bar and may be intruding in the toilet clear floor space for a floor mounted toilet.

When measuring floor space clearances - do you measure from the white wall tile or the base / cove tile? The base / cove tile appears thicker than the wall tile and could result in too small of a clear floor space.


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## mark handler (Feb 5, 2020)

Mech said:


> The mirror does not appear to have a tilt to it.  What code / standard requires a tilt?  I do not see the requirement in A117.1-2009; maybe I missed it.


No tilt in ANSI
No tilt in ADASAD.

people do that to try to get out of the lower reflective edge distance, but not required.


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## Yikes (Feb 5, 2020)

Not taking measurements, but eyeballing it:

Changing table, even in its folded-up position, interferes with required 30x48 floor clearance at lavatory.
Stainless steel trash bin likely interferes with required toe clearance at lavatory.
Can’t tell if that fAstory thing is a towel dispenser or a seat cover dispenser, but either way the dispensing part might be higher than 48” for obstructed high forward reach
Soap dispenser higher than 48” side reach range.  Some people might also say it requires a forward approach instead of side approach.
If in California, the centerline of the lav needs to be 18” min. from the adjacent side wall.
Does the employee hand wash sign need to be tactile or braille? (“Ew, David!”)


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## Pcinspector1 (Feb 5, 2020)

mark handler said:


> people do that to try to get out of the lower reflective edge distance, but not required.



Mark is correct no tilt requirement. I even had that noted in the margin in a ADA reference book I use.

Thanks for the correction.


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## Builder Bob (Feb 5, 2020)

Also add the projection of the paper towel dispenser exceeds the 4" maximum allowed by ICC/ ANSI/ ADA. Hook on compartment door, self closing door, etc.


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## Rick18071 (Feb 6, 2020)

Builder Bob said:


> Also add the projection of the paper towel dispenser exceeds the 4" maximum allowed by ICC/ ANSI/ ADA. Hook on compartment door, self closing door, etc.



I would not call the paper towel dispenser a Protruding objects on circulation path


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## ADAguy (Feb 6, 2020)

and why wouldn't you? How tall/short are you?


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## Builder Bob (Feb 6, 2020)

Rick18071 said:


> I would not call the paper towel dispenser a Protruding objects on circulation path



You might want to visit ADA's page for some videos - it is on the circulation route between the water closet and the lavatory. How does a patron transition fro one to the other


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## Builder Bob (Feb 6, 2020)

https://www.access-board.gov/guidel...andards/guide-to-the-ada-standards/animations


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## Rick18071 (Feb 7, 2020)

As a PA inspector I don't care what the ADA says, I only inspect to the code.

ICC/ANSI A117.1-2009 section 604.4 let's you have things in the required clear space for any fixture and the turning space in the toilet room with nothing about protruding objects. This section is more specific about toilet room than the general requirements for circulation paths


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## e hilton (Feb 7, 2020)

Rick18071 said:


> As a PA inspector I don't care what the ADA says, I only inspect to the code.


Good point.  But when you have an inspection to see if the facility meets ada accessibilty requirements, then you do care.  And being on the owner side, we need to be able to successfully defend against ada challenges.  And unfortunately there are people who make a living doing that.


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## ADAguy (Feb 7, 2020)

So true e, that is where the discrepency occurs. DOJ's failure to certify "codes" and ICC's failure to meet ADASAD minimums in every category. States are required to implement the ADA but many AG's continue to resist, leaving owners unaware that their permits may not achieve a safe harbor for compliance.


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