# Fixing unstable ADA sign post.



## BayPointArchitect (Oct 27, 2017)

Apparently, a shopper knocked over an unstable ADA sign.  It fell and caused damage to another vehicle.  The shopper is saying that it is the store owner's fault.  The store owner is asking me to verify what exactly the requirements are.  This is the answer that I gave both of them:


"Permanent and accessible amenities (such as parking stalls reserved for wheelchair users) need to be identified with signage that is attached firmly to the building or pole or other fixed-in-place object.  Signs which are temporary do not need to comply with this requirement.  Sign posts may not create an obstacle for pedestrian circulation.  Signs must be mounted either 60” high to the centerline or 80” minimum vertical clearance for overhead signs.  Sings must be mounted in place in way that someone will not encounter protruding objects."

Does anyone else have a reference or opinion as to any standard criteria for making an unstable sign fixed in place?  The attached image is for illustration only.  I do not know how exactly the sign was held in place but I do want to be thoughtful in my answer rather than to simply say, "go to court and figure it out".

Thank you!

ICC Certified Plan Reviewer
NFPA Certified Fire Plan Examiner


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## cda (Oct 27, 2017)

Maintenance issue??

If this is the wording that has to be compiled with, than the store should assure it is met::

"""Permanent and accessible amenities (such as parking stalls reserved for wheelchair users) need to be identified with signage that is attached firmly to the building or pole or other fixed-in-place object.""

I was involved somewhat in a temp sign for a que line, and a person knocked it over, and another person said they were hurt by it.

Well things happen, and it was a temp sign, but somewhat stable.


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## mark handler (Oct 27, 2017)

Many public works divisions have standards for the attachment of traffic signs to poles and poles tp the ground.


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## Msradell (Oct 27, 2017)

I don't see why the fact that it's a ADA sign makes any difference in this case. The fault is either by the person to knock to sign over if they hit it with unreasonable force section of hitting it with a vehicle etc. or on the store if it was poorly erected in the person just leaned on it and it fell over. What kind of sign it was doesn't make any difference at all.


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## mark handler (Oct 28, 2017)

It does not matter.  That's why I referred to the public works std details.


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## BayPointArchitect (Oct 30, 2017)

Our Public Works Department does have a standard detail for those signs located in the public right of way and on public property.  If that detail is then applied, then the pole buried 36 inches into the ground qualifies as a "fixed-in-place object".  But we can not say that this detail is enforceable and the only method for stability.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cowbmrq68t8nkna/ParkingSign.jpg?dl=0


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## steveray (Oct 31, 2017)

That would be like me mowing over a telephone pole onto someones house and saying the phone company is at fault....You take that egg as you find it....If they hit a shopping cart and it rolled into another car, would that be their fault too?


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## Paul Sweet (Oct 31, 2017)

Sadly, EVERYTHING is somebody else's fault these days.


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## conarb (Oct 31, 2017)

steveray said:


> That would be like me mowing over a telephone pole onto someones house and saying the phone company is at fault....You take that egg as you find it....If they hit a shopping cart and it rolled into another car, would that be their fault too?


We are seeing it here with the Napa/Sonoma fires, slimy activist groups are already suing PG&E for their poles falling and transformers exploding, even though one illegal alien has been arrested for starting a fire and the area is full of pot farmers, illegals, and homeless encampments.  There was a time when high winds were called an act of God, I guess acts of God have gone the way of sovereign immunity for government agencies.


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