# New York to try to Educate Code Officials



## conarb (May 29, 2015)

\ said:
			
		

> Model codes, such as the International Residential Code and the International Building Code, don't let you build with any wood you want to use. They only allow structural lumber that has been graded by the rules set by national grading agencies, with occasional spot-checking by experts from those groups.But that requirement rules out a lot of perfectly sound lumber that's produced on small woodlots, and sawn by small sawmills who don't have the money to pay for grading by a big agency. In places like wooded, rural upstate New York, that's an unpopular (and impractical) policy.¹


Click the link near the bottom to see their attempt to educate code officials.

¹ http://www.jlconline.com/lumber/new-york-state-no-grade-stamp-needed_o.aspx


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## TheCommish (May 30, 2015)

Massachusetts has a process for

NATIVE LUMBER. Native lumber is wood processed in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts

by a mill registered in accordance with 780 CMR 110.R4: Licensing Native Lumber Producers.

Such wood is ungraded but is stamped or certified in accordance with the requirements of

780 CMR 110.R4. For the purpose of this definition, native lumber shall be restricted to the use

in one- and two-story dwellings, barns, sheds, agricultural and accessory buildings and other

structures when permitted by 780 CMR 110.R4.

Regulation 4

LICENSING NATIVE LUMBER PRODUCERS

(Note: R4 is unique to Massachusetts)

R4.1 ADMINISTRATION

R4.1.1 Scope. The provisions of 780 CMR Regulation 4, hereinafter referred to as R4, shall govern the licensing of native lumber producers.

R4.1.2 Definitions.  The following words and terms shall, for the purposes of R4 and as used elsewhere in 780 CMR, have the meaning indicated in R4.1.2.

BBRS.  Board of Building Regulations and Standards.

NATIVE LUMBER. Native lumber is wood processed in Massachusetts by a mill registered in accordance with the regulations (780 CMR) of the BBRS. Such wood is ungraded but is stamped or certified in accordance with 780 CMR 23.  Native lumber shall be restricted to use in one-and two-story dwellings, barns, sheds, agricultural and accessory buildings and structures and other uses as permitted by 780 CMR 23.

NATIVE LUMBER PRODUCERS.   Persons or corporations in the business of milling wood into native lumber within Massachusetts.

PERSON.  Individual, partnership, corporation, trust, joint venture, etc.

R4.1.3 Registration. No person shall produce native lumber for use in buildings or structures within Massachusetts unless registered by the BBRS.

R4.1.4 Application. Native lumber producers shall apply and furnish qualifications satisfactory to the BBRS in accordance with R4 and qualification requirements provided by the BBRS with the application form.

R4.1.5 Registration Fee. Applications shall be accompanied by a registration fee in accordance with 801 CMR 4.02. This initial registration shall be valid for two years.

R4.1.6 Renewals.  Registration shall be renewed every two years. Within 30 days before the registration expiration date, the BBRS shall forward to each registrant a renewal form. Upon receipt of the completed form and fee in accordance with 801 CMR 4.02, the BBRS shall renew the registration for a period of two years or notify the applicant of reasons for refusal. Any application for renewal of a registration which has expired shall require the payment of a new registration fee.

R4.1.7 Prequalifying Agent. State Inspectors of the Department of Public Safety shall act as agents of the BBRS to inspect native lumber producing facilities. Upon receipt of a completed application, the State Inspector shall inspect the facility for compliance with the required qualifications and make recommendation to the BBRS.

R4.1.8 Penalties. Any person who fails to comply with the requirements of R4 or who falsifies an application shall be subject to the penalties and actions as prescribed in 780 CMR 114.0.

R4. 2 REGISTRATION STAMP

R4.2.1 Issuance. Each person registered by the BBRS shall be issued a specific name and number for use in stamping or certifying the native lumber produced at a specific mill.

R4.2.2 Contents. Each stamp shall be a minimum of two inches by four inches with a minimum of 36 pt. letters and shall contain the following information.

1. Name of native lumber producer;

2. Registration number; and

3. Species of wood.

Each producer shall be responsible for obtaining stamps made for their use in accordance with the requirements of the BBRS and R4.

R4.2.3 Use. Each piece of native lumber shall be stamped with the name and registration number of the producer in accordance with R4 and bear an approved mark identifying the species of wood.  In lieu of stamping, a certification bearing the same stamped information may be provided by the producer for precut or re-manufactured lumber in accordance with R4.

R4.2.4 Unlawful Use. It shall be unlawful to use a stamp registered for a specific mill at any other mill.

R4.3 REVOCATION AND SUSPENSION PROCEDURES

R4.3.1 Revocation and Suspension. The BBRS on its own initiative or upon the recommendation of the State Inspector may suspend or revoke the registration of any mill registered in accordance with R4, 780 CMR or the standards of good practice. Notice of suspension or revocation of such registration shall be in writing with the reasons for suspension or revocation clearly set forth, and served in accordance with 780 CMR 114.0.

R4.3.2 Notice and Conference. Prior to suspension or revocation of a registration, written notice of such intent shall be served by the State Inspector in accordance with 780 CMR 114.0. Within ten calendar days of receipt of such notice, the affected mill may request a conference with the State Inspector who will hear facts and make their recommendations to the BBRS.

R4.3.3 Effect of. Upon suspension or revocation of mill registration, the mill shall immediately cease engaging in the stamping or certifying of native lumber. The filing of an appeal with the Building Code Appeals Board shall stay such suspension or revocation subject to 780 CMR 1.

R4.4 APPEALS

R4.4.1 Building Code Appeals Board. Anyone aggrieved by the decision of the BBRS, or others may appeal to the Building Code Appeals Board.


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## Msradell (May 30, 2015)

Even those Massachusetts regulations would prevent a lot of locally milled lumber from being used in a lot of cases!  Many of the smaller mom-and-pop type sawmills don't want to go through the hassle of registration, stamping of lumber etc.!  In reality they probably make better would in most of the big boys but our system of regulations puts them out of the cold when it comes to many of the construction markets.  Much of the wood they use is also older growth wood of natural species instead of the new fast-growing hybrids that are used in commercial operations.


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## conarb (May 30, 2015)

Interesting, I recently built a home with 5,000 square feet of quartersawn rift grain walnut flooring, it took about 6 months to get, I was told that the trees came from 5 states, Ohio, Kentucky, Missouri, Indiana and Illinois,  after the long lengths I needed were located the logs were apparently milled locally, then I was told they were sent across the river into Ohio for milling into shapes and kiln drying.  I would have liked to have seen those areas of walnut trees and small local mills along with the Ohio mill that did the final milling and drying, I documented all of this for my owner so he has a record of the provenance of his floor.


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## Mark K (May 31, 2015)

Totally irresponsible when applied to lumber that must support loads.

.

Without there being some assurance that the lumber complies with the grading rules professional engineers will have no assurance that the members can support the required loads.


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## jwilly3879 (May 31, 2015)

I see a lot of locally sawn lumber used and the problem is many people have no clue about the strength of the lumber. I have seen 2x8 rafters with 5" knots and the builder had no clue.


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## conarb (May 31, 2015)

jwilly3879 said:
			
		

> I see a lot of locally sawn lumber used and the problem is many people have no clue about the strength of the lumber. I have seen 2x8 rafters with 5" knots and the builder had no clue.


If that's the case I guess educating builders and inspectors as to what to look for is a good idea.

Since Dave Henderson from Albany CA is here I have to relate that we had a lumber yard in Albany named Hill Lumber, they had city blocks of rough lumber stickered and air drying, redwood and fir timbers.  They sold to no home owners and only to the better builders, they had a lumber grader on staff, when we wanted special timbers they would mill the rough stock and grade it right there, I watched them do it, quite an education.  Of course half of Albany was built by an old Scotchman called One-Nail MacGregor, he had his carpenters put two 16d nails in a stud, the one in the top was alternated from the one in the bottom so you couldn't twist the stud, of course all lumber was full rough stock and all nails were common nails:



			
				\ said:
			
		

> MacGregor is best known for having built over 1,500 homes in Albany, where he began to develop tracts in the late 1920s. The Depression did not slow him down, since his working and selling methods were particularly suited to the circumstances. He eliminated the need for subcontractors by directly employing carpenters, lathmen, plasterers, painters, and finish craftsmen. He pioneered the practice of building several houses concurrently, thus keeping his crews continuously employed. He also evolved the “rent to own” policy, helping young families to acquire a home gradually.In 1936, his vast projects in Albany prompted MacGregor to move his office from Oakland to Solano Avenue. For many years, Albany celebrated MacGregor Day. His houses stand as proof that thrift and quality need not be mutually exclusive.¹


¹ http://berkeleyheritage.com/eastbay_then-now/macgregor.html


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## Msradell (May 31, 2015)

Mark K said:
			
		

> Totally irresponsible when applied to lumber that must support loads.Without there being some assurance that the lumber complies with the grading rules professional engineers will have no assurance that the members can support the required loads.


In some cases you probably are correct but in many others the grading process is completely a joke!  It's getting weaker because of the varieties that are used because they are fast-growing and the dimensions of the lumber keep being reduced to increase yield.  Give me some good old country sawn lumber that was growing on a farmers back lot anytime!  Any builder or carpenter worth anything can tell by looking at a piece of lumber whether it's any good or not, they don't need a stamp on the end to tell them that!


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## jdfruit (Jun 1, 2015)

"Any builder or carpenter worth anything can tell by looking at a piece of lumber whether it's any good or not, they don't need a stamp on the end to tell them that!"

Don't have but a rare few of those worth anything builders or carpenters on the left (and very dry) coast. There used to be hundreds of portable pirate lumber cutter/miller outfits until the early 1980's when the Forestry Dept ran them out for poaching. Now the few left got smart and got certified for lumber grading. Very tough business and a dying breed since there isn't hardly any small private owned timber stands left.


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## tmurray (Jun 1, 2015)

We generally allow it in detached garages, sheds, etc. I had one house use use a small amount of ungraded lumber, but there was hardly a knot in it, so I was satisfied with it.


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## conarb (Jun 1, 2015)

\ said:
			
		

> Very tough business and a dying breed since there isn't hardly any small private owned timber stands left.


That's because there is little private land left here in the west, what there is is constantly be taken over as parks, watersheds, etc. This is just federal land, not counting state, park district, water district, conservation districts etc.


You think that's bad, on September 25th and 26th the United Nations is convening it's *Sustainable Development Conference in New York*, they are set to adopt their Biodiversity Agenda within which the world is going to be divided up for animal rights as well as human rights, this map is how the  Untied States is being divided up to allow space for animals and migration paths from Canada down through Central America, I guess you guys in states like Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, etc. can come down here and live with us in our One Bay Area Urban high rise developments wherein everyone is equal.



You are not going to be able to dross these red zones unless you are riding int he new electric train system, there will be points the trains will stop called "Interpretative Centers" where the common people can observe and be instructed on nature and how people used to live when they were free, kind of like our "Visioning" meetings here where people are being instructed on how to envision the idealistic future.  So where are you going to cut those trees?

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## JBI (Jun 4, 2015)

GBOT, NYS *does* allow ungraded lumber in Residential construction and has since the 90's. The provisions are in the RCNYS (NYS ResCode).

Certification by the Sawyer that the lumber meets #2 grade or better is required.

Can only be sold to an 'end user' - home owner or their contractor - and can't be re-sold.


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## David Henderson (Jun 5, 2015)

What conarb says is true these are homes built in the 20's thru the 40's that are in very good shape unless there was water intrusion around windows. Quality workmen ship and very few nails


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## steveray (Jun 5, 2015)

Conarb....they can't even spell convention correctly....


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## conarb (Jun 5, 2015)

David Henderson said:
			
		

> What conarb says is true these are homes built in the 20's thru the 40's that are in very good shape unless there was water intrusion around windows. Quality workmen ship and very few nails


Dave:

The water always leaked in around the old double hung windows, every old wall I've opened up has water staining around the windows, but walls breathed back then and the water dried out.  The problems came two-fold, putting insulation in walls that held the water and sealing up walls with plywood sheathing, then later the plastic housewraps.  Wood framed walls worked fine in the old days, but this insane energy efficiency combined with using plywood for shear has pushed wood framed construction beyond what it is capable of doing.  The solution is going to be to really seal up the walls, in fact "roof" the walls, then do constant mechanical air exchanges probably costing more than just building the walls like we used to, at least in our moderate climate.  A couple of years ago when we had the Yosemite hantavirus scare pumping insulation out of walls was big business here, I've asked several people to keep their utility bills, so far those who have removed their insulation report no difference.   Another problem is that we put 1x (1x8 in my day) sheathing behind stucco, but never put sheathing behind wood or shingle siding to trap water.


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