# Cninese Drywall



## jpranch (Nov 23, 2009)

Want to buy some lead tainted toys kids? Well...... draw your on conclusions.......

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/23/chines ... index.html


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## conarb (Nov 24, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall



			
				J.P. said:
			
		

> "While the study of 51 homes detected hydrogen sulfide and formaldehyde ... at concentrations below irritant levels, it is possible that the additive or synergistic effects of these and other compounds in the subject homes could cause irritant effects," the Consumer Product Safety Commission said in its executive summary of the study.


Our new homes today are loaded with formaldehyde - OSB, I Joists, particleboard cabinets, fiberglass insulation, foam insulation, caulking, carpet, and any number of other products.  My thinking is that the synergistic effect of the formaldehyde in the construction of the homes and the hydrogen sulfide in the drywall is what has caused the problems. I think what they should be looking at is what happened to homes with the drywall that weren't built with formaldehyde laden products?


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## Uncle Bob (Nov 24, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

ConArb,

I checked the Gypsum Association website and they are silent on the Chinese drywall issue.  Guess they really don't have to say anything; just let the facts speak for themselves.

For inspectors who don't keep their head in the sand to keep their jobs; you can learn something about gypsum board and it's installation by going to their website;

http://www.gypsum.org/mediaguide.html

But, then again; "the less you know; the easier your job is".

Uncle Bob


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## RJJ (Nov 24, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

Great link UB. Much faster and direct to info always needed.


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## conarb (Nov 24, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

The problem has now shown up in both Georgia Pacific and National Gypsum drywall, it's the fault of the inspectors for allowing all that formaldehyde in homes.


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## JBI (Nov 24, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

conarb - "it's the fault of the inspectors for allowing all that formaldehyde in homes. "

You can't be serious. Or do you always 'shoot the messenger'? We didn't put it there. We have no means to order its' removal. Many times we have no way of knowing it is even there.

But I guess it's easier to blame the inspectors than the ones who actually ARE at fault...


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## conarb (Nov 24, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

John:

Don't take it personal, I said, and mean, "inspectors" plural, and as a group.  We saw in Minneapolis and Baltimore one faction push an agendum to code, we are seeing other factions pushing agenda to code, all in the name of first public safety, and now saving the earth and all creatures therein.  We heard that these code provisions were necessary to protect the public, of whom some 2,000 die each year from fire, and that protection can only be attained by code provisions mandated by a vote of the "inspectors" (plural). In the interests of saving energy, and the planet, groups are mandating the use of toxic materials in our homes that have the potential of killing and maiming millions, and who is the sole arbiter of these provisions, and the group ultimately responsible for their mandate?  Inspectors that's who, as a group "inspectors" will be the sole ones making these life and death decisions. 

Minneapolis and Baltimore should be wake-up calls, special interests can and are buying their methods and materials as code mandates, who is there to protect the public?  Inspectors that's who, let the formaldehyde laden products in, one by one, soon it overwhelms the indoor air and a chemical reaction occurs harming the public, who can stop it? Inspectors, as a group they are the only ones able to protect us, they better get organized to protect the public, who as a group knows nothing about these harmful products.

We've seen how the ICC has reacted to the takeover, first they take the NFPA in and give them leadership positions, then they move to Washington DC into a "Green Building", and then they destroy their Bulletin Board, the only voice of individual inspectors capable of organizing into a group capable of shutting down dangerous code mandates.


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## AegisFPE (Nov 24, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

There's a second report now coming out the CPSC regarding corrosion of pipes and wires in close proximity to the drywall.


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## conarb (Nov 24, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

At least one city is investigating it's Green Building ordinance.





			
				Examiner said:
			
		

> Yesterday, the San Jose City Council voted to investigate elevated formaldehyde in GreenPoint Rated homes. The City Council adopted ORD. NO. 28622, the Green Building Regulation. However, no building permits will be issued until the Council addresses poor indoor air quality found in existing GreenPoint Rated homes.Two Santa Clara County residents presented data to the Council, showing that GreenPoint Rated homes have elevated formaldehyde. Real estate broker Richard Calhoun explained that homes in all five of the GreenPoint Rated developments in the county have formaldehyde near or above 77 ppb, the average in the Katrina FEMA trailers.
> 
> Industrial hygienist Linda Kincaid presented data from specific properties. A GreenPoint Rated development in San Jose was promoted as “free of toxins”. A home in that development had 97 ppb formaldehyde in room air. A kitchen cabinet had nearly 500 ppb formaldehyde.
> 
> ...


¹ http://www.examiner.com/x-5101-San-Jose ... rmaldehyde


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## Uncle Bob (Nov 24, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

ConArb,

I don't scare easily; but, what is the most frightening part of all this, to me; is that all these facts fall on deaf ears.  The very people who are counted on by the citizens to regulate the construction of their homes and protect their health and welfare; by omission and/or comission close their eyes and cover their ears; while families are slowly poisioned and new homes are built that are uninhabitable.

Families are exposed to toxic and structurally unsound new homes and  their helpless cries are ignored;

http://www.hadd.com/

and,

http://www.hobb.org/hobbv1/links.shtml

For all your warnings; you are mocked and criticized.  Your factual information is ignored and scoffed at.

And, good, hard working families lose their health and their homes.

I am saddened and amazed,

Uncle Bob


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## conarb (Nov 25, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

You know Uncle Bob, all that would be required to solve the health problem is an air quality certificate issued by a licensed industrial hygienist prior to the issuance to a final building inspection or CO?

People have short memories, after the last energy crisis in the 70s we had a "sick building syndrome" problem in office buildings when they sealed them up, no amount of added air flow systems did a thing, the only thing that worked was taking out glass and installing openable windows, what a concept, remember the "ventilation" part of the "light and ventilation" code section? Of course now with all the toxic products going into new homes it will take more than adding openable windows, it might even take eliminating the "green" building products to pass the test.  Is code enforcement here to save lives or "save the earth"?


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## JBI (Nov 25, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

Keep shooting the messenger...   

I have a novel idea... GO AFTER THE REAL CULPRITS! The manufacturers, the suppliers, the specifyers (DPRs or otherwise), the builders. You cannot blame the inspectors for allowing products that meet code and are 'approved' as required to comply with the code.

Personally I've never liked 'closed system' buildings.

I remember Legionaires Disease.

I've worked in 'sick buildings'.

But we all know that proper maintenance is expen$ive, so let's just change the filters in the HVAC system when someone complains about the black crap on the ceilings around the diffusers instead of according to the prescribed schedule.

Let's build buildings that are so rediculously large that we can't possibly maintain a reasonable temerature with openable windows, 'forcing' us to use 'closed system'.

Let's put 'RTUs' on flat roofed buildings where they can become a breeding ground for micro-organisms that putrify the air we breathe.

And by all means, let's create a 'free market' economy that breeds mega-corporations to feed the greed of a few rich a$$holes whose only interest is in making ungodly profits at the expense of the rest of us.

And what ever you do, don't EVER suggest regulating THEM! HEAVEN FORBID! That would just be 'big government' restricting 'free' trade!

Sorry, rant over now...


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## FM William Burns (Nov 25, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

EXCEPTIONAL!


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## conarb (Nov 25, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall



			
				John said:
			
		

> Keep shooting the messenger...   I have a novel idea... GO AFTER THE REAL CULPRITS! The manufacturers, the suppliers, the specifyers (DPRs or otherwise), the builders. You cannot blame the inspectors for allowing products that meet code and are 'approved' as required to comply with the code.


You still don't get it, as Minneapolis so dramatically showed us, it is the inspectors who approve the codes, they are responsible for the codes we have both in the inception and enforcement of the codes. If a manufacturer gets crap-board approved made from cow dung and gets it into the codes, who is responsible for the approval?  A firefighter is killed when I Joists collapse, his widow sues the manufacturer who made it, the architect who  specifies it, the contractor who isntalled it, and their defense is that it is a code-approved material.

I'd say that it's the inspectors who are responsible for bad code approvals, the taxpayers pay their salaries and have a right to assume that they fully investigate materials before voting to approve them as code.  Who voted for the green building code that is making people sick?  Inspectors, that's who, without their votes we wouldn't have these codes, we pay them to do this for us to protect us from things like formaldehyde.


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## ewenme (Nov 25, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

OK, I have to chime in. It is NOT the "inspectors" who vote on codes. IT IS the Code Officials appointed by the member jurisdictions who have the votes. That is how a bunch of wild-card fire sprinkler folks held sway in Minneapolis.

 :twisted: Jumped off the soapbox. If it were just the inspectors who voted, we might not have the chaos and tumult that resulted from the Minneapolis debacle. Oops, one foot still on the soapbox. Sorry. :geek:


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## RJJ (Nov 25, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

ewenme: Exactly! Now we have a run away train and ICC is hoping to cash in at every turn.

The process was tossed out with the bath water. Most can't see the elephant in the room.

Done now!


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## conarb (Nov 25, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

It's suppose to be the inspectors voting, people who supposedly know about codes.  The way the sprinkler industry unabashedly hijacked the process was small potatoes compared to what's happening with the green and energy efficiency industries.  What does building safety have to do with saving the earth, saving the trees, and getting U.S. of foreign oil?  These industries are political and the codes are being used by commercial and political interests for their own objectives.


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## RJJ (Nov 26, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

CA: Have a great Thanksgiving and eat some organic Turkey!

Saving the earth, trees and oil do come in to play in the big picture of codes. Better homes and buildings with safety first are only the first level of building codes. From the footings to the ridge if we can produce healthier, more efficient, stronger safer end products that is the brass ring on the merry go round. However, we have chosen the path of minimum standards supported by voodoo science and driven by corporate greed. The ICC circus is but a snap shot of America at its worst.


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## FM William Burns (Nov 26, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

Trying to get warmed up for the day..........being the only Republican in the mix today for our family gathering, thought I’d vent a little on the “Inspector” reference in the process.

I certainly understand the opinions expressed by you all about the development process and directional heading over the past 10 years with code development in both major processes.  I see merit in all these expressed opinions.  After witnessing the strategic approach of the sprinkler advocate interest in a closed door meeting, I was appalled by the lack of (getting to the root of the problem) associated to materials and reductions in the residential code.  Single tunnel vision is an understatement!  I was also appalled by seeing some committee members I deeply respected in my field in a couple of committees selling out (lack of better term) on some safety related proposal campaigns for industry interest.

The problem I see is that the interest groups have alliances with some committee affiliations allowing advocacy for a method or product to be displayed prior to voting by inspection officials.  The fringe voting members while being confused with all the rebuttal and re-rebuttals, allowances for modifications on the fly and trying to keep up with the rapid process, solicits a lack of perspective on one’s position.  It reminds me of that reality show Survivor and the nasty alliances developed.

I agree that we as “Safety Advocates” need to be more vocal and willing to stand on what we research and at minimum, make a stance at these opportunities.  One of the topics I spoke up on was a proposal to draft stop the cavity space where a dryer exhaust duct passes.  My own associates didn’t support it because the initial proposal was offered by an industry representative.  I didn’t care that this particular product was up for consideration as long as the cavity gets draft stopped.  We have had four fires where this issue was a contributing factor in vertical fire spread.

When we as officials loose sight with what is logical and makes common sense we get in trouble.  Just like voting for sprinklers and leaving when that singular issue is completed.  The tunnel vision allows for further reductions in safety if a adoption jurisdiction decides to amend the code and not bring back the safety measures allowed to be reduced.

Time to start the pre-game drinking and may you all have a wonderful Thanksgiving


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## RJJ (Nov 26, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

FM: Well said! Seems like someone else is seeing the Elephant in the room!


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## JBI (Nov 26, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

And don't forget CA, 'the Codes' and 'approved materials' are not the same thing. Approvals of materials have very little Code Official input. How many ACTIVE Code Officials are either directly employed by or are in contract with UL or ASTM as consultants? How many products are shown to COs BY UL or ASTM prior to obtaining a listing or approval. Usually it is either proposed prior to being approved and shot down in review (we hope) to the dismay of all - then goes through the process and gets approved/listed... but not by COs, by UL or ASTM or whoever, OR we learn about it after it has an approval or a listing.  :roll:

UL sends out recalls and advisories all the time. How many COs can actually remember where each of the recalled items were actually installed? I have never been given a list of each and every outlet, switch, fixture for ANY building, let alone every building.  :?

How many COs do you know that have the time to examine every sheet of GWB that gets installed? How many of them (I know, you can't fractionalize "0") would recognize the 'chinese death boards'? Once they're stamped by the US Company that imported them, you would need chemical analysis to tell.  :shock:

M...U...S...T.........S...T...O...P.......................RANTING!!!!!!   :x   :evil:

OK, all better now.   

Here's wishing you and yours a VERY HAPPY THANKSGIVING.  :mrgreen:

If you are travelling, PLEASE remember don't drink and drive...   

You might hit a bump and spill your drink!  :twisted:


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## packsaddle (Nov 26, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

??????


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## conarb (Nov 27, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

Hey Packsaddle, what did you do with all that money you took out of Dubai?


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## packsaddle (Nov 29, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

The money is hidden in Uncle Bob's basement.....next to the moonshine.


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## conarb (Nov 29, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

Pack:

Have you been following the economic demise of Dubai? Incredible, first Japan collapsed due to over-building 12 years ago, we have collapsed due to over-building, and now Dubai.  With Dubai it's understandable, apparently all they have is sun, sand, and oil, their oil is set to run out in 20 years so they were building a resort destination to keep their economy running for the foreseeable future, that makes since, with us over-building was a political maneuver by the Socialists in this country to buy votes to redistribute our wealth to the third world, that doesn't make sense.


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## packsaddle (Nov 29, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

Good video.

I saw all of those things while I was there.

Except the 7-star hotel....they didn't let riffraff like me near it.

I did visit a 5-star hotel, though.

And I did ski on the indoor ski slopes.

Dubai actually profits more from tourism than from oil.

Many people don't know that.

Incredible place.

I flew Emirates Airlines, which is owned by Sheikh "Mo".

Direct flight took about 15 hours from the US.

The "hookah" (or "shisha") was worth the trip.

Rode a camel, too.

I encourage everyone to visit Dubai, if possible.


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## conarb (Nov 29, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

Pack:

Uncle Bob and I were planning to join you there if this country collapses, now it looks like we can get some good deals on real estate there to ride out the storm, of course lots of it rests on you keeping the money hidden and available when we need it, we don't have pensions you know.


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## Uncle Bob (Nov 29, 2009)

Re: Cninese Drywall

ConArb,

Stay out of my basement.

I watched them building the sand islands on a National Geographic documentry.  I'm still hoping they finish and I live long enough to see a tsunami take them out; like sand castles on the beach.

I hope someone has the foresight to set up video stations around the area.

Uncle Bob


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