# Exposed ICF's in garage



## Coder (Jan 31, 2014)

In the past I have required that the remaining top portion of the ICF stemwall that is left exposed inside a garage to be covered by an approved thermal barrier. I am beginning to wonder if this is a valid requirement. With the advent of new ESR's not requiring thermal barriers for certain ICF's in crawlspaces and spray foam up to certain thicknesses on rim joist areas not requiring protection this perceived requirement I have been enforcing may be overkill. Anyone know a code section I can hang my hat on for this or do I need to stop making it a requirement? Thanks.


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## Coder (Jan 31, 2014)

Edit: The section for reference is 2009 IRC section R316.4


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## fatboy (Jan 31, 2014)

I would not give a blanket across the board hall-pass for foam installations. If there is a testing reference available for that specific product, great, otherwise cover it.


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## mtlogcabin (Jan 31, 2014)

A garage is not limited in access and does not compare to a crawlspace.

How many fires start in a garage?


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## Coder (Jan 31, 2014)

I am sticking with it needs to be covered. Looks like **** if not covered anyways. Do you guys recommend anything other than sheetrock to people  as an aesthetically appealing and acceptable thermal barrier? Sheetrock at the bottom edge of a garage slab is problematic for moisture damage around these parts.


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## mtlogcabin (Jan 31, 2014)

R316.4 Thermal barrier.

Unless otherwise allowed in Section R316.5 or Section R316.6, foam plastic shall be separated from the interior of a building by an approved thermal barrier of minimum 1/2 inch (12.7 mm) gypsum wallboard or a material that is tested in accordance with and meets the acceptance criteria of both the Temperature Transmission Fire Test and the Integrity Fire Test of NFPA 275.

I don't know of a specific product that meets NFPA 275

maybe Durock cement board for the bottom 12 inches.


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## Coder (Jan 31, 2014)

Stucco coat?


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## steveray (Jan 31, 2014)

Agree it has to be covered....Look into densglas gold or some other drywall sheathing if you can't get anything on the cement board stuff....works for fire ratings and exterior sheathing...


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## Coder (Feb 1, 2014)

Here is a picture of the area in question. The walls will be sheet rocked. The blue green ICF area also needs to be covered. Sheet metal? Just so you all know this isn't the first time I have run across this. Sheetrock all the way to the floor doesn't last. Densglass is a good idea. Would need to paint it to look good though. Just seeing what everyone else would do/has done to achieve code compliance in this area. Thanks for your replies as always. You all are a great sounding board when there is no one else to talk to on code related matters. :cheers

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## steveray (Feb 3, 2014)

I would think that sheet metal would transfer too much heat....With an airspace maybe...But MT has the black and white code section and I would be pretty hesitent to approve any "alternative"...


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## mark handler (Feb 3, 2014)

Foam, like many building materials is combustible

–Unprotected foam will ignite when exposed to fire – Smoke and combustible gases can accumulate in interior spaces during fire conditions and lead to flashover

Think Occupant Protection

exposed foam Only to be used in attics and crawl spaces where entry is made only for repairs or maintenance (IRC) or for the service of utilities (IBC)

Ignition barrier exception does not apply when the attic or crawlspace could reasonably be used for storage or auxiliary living space

exception does not specificaly apply to garages.


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## Coder (Feb 3, 2014)

Have any of you seen this? What did you approve?


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## Builder Bob (Feb 3, 2014)

alternate means of section 2603.5.7 of the 2012 IBC should be alllowed...


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## mjesse (Feb 3, 2014)

The area shown in the photo is, in my opinion, too small to worry about the by-products of combustion.

With that out of the equation, the issue becomes protection from damage.

I see log siding in the background, throw some of that on it.

You have the Code to help you require some covering, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over what the installed product is. I.e. metal, plaster, stucco, wood, gypsum, et. al.

mj


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## mark handler (Feb 3, 2014)

Exposed foam with egnition source

I would not approve it


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## mjesse (Feb 3, 2014)

mark handler said:
			
		

> Exposed foam with egnition sourceI would not approve it


Would you let them trim it off so there is no foam?

Technically, you are correct, though the OP is asking about the 10" strip at the floor, not the whole wall. (He states the frame wall will be drywalled)

I built a 6k s.f. ICF house in 2001 where the ICF ran from footing to roof. We drywalled every inch of it. In the OP's case, it's ICF foundation with wood framed exterior walls.

I promise the owners will have far worse things stored in the garage that are combustible. Worrying about the bottom 10" for the sake of a black and white Code section kinda misses the big picture.

I would rather trim the foam off, and lose 10"x 22' of R-5 insulation (IN A GARAGE), than fret over what is going to cover it.


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## Francis Vineyard (Feb 3, 2014)

Coder you're on the right path requiring the ½ gypsum; unless they can provide the latest ICC ESR in accordance with R316.6 for an exception.


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## Darren Emery (Feb 3, 2014)

Trim it off!  What do you lose doing that in a garage?


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## mark handler (Feb 4, 2014)

No exposed foam


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## Coder (Feb 4, 2014)

I have mentioned the "removal plan" to the contractors as well. Ends up looking like ca ca with all the plastic tabs sawn off and the 2" strip of icf left over flush with the concrete floor. Would be better if they cut it off prior to pouring concrete and formed that portion with wood. It is a heated garage and actually requires a certain R-value that would be diminished if removed. All that said. I advocate a certain trowel applied fiber reinforced cementituous coating at a 1/4 to 1/2 inch thickness that I can't recall the brand as a sufficient thermal barrier. It leaves an aesthetically clean end result, sets up like concrete, and provides (IMO) the same level of protection as 1/2" sheetrock.


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## Francis Vineyard (Feb 4, 2014)

Coder said:
			
		

> Sheetrock at the bottom edge of a garage slab is problematic for moisture damage around these parts.


Even with a one to two-inch gap or capillary break between the slab and wall board?

Then seal a rubber baseboard though not required.


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## Builder Bob (Feb 4, 2014)

Th eproblem witht the exposed ICF is the fact that fire may travel up the ICF units as they deteriorate from thermal exposure......thus allowing a fire to smolder for hours before finally igniting


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## Francis Vineyard (Feb 5, 2014)

Coder said:
			
		

> I advocate a certain trowel applied fiber reinforced cementituous coating at a 1/4 to 1/2 inch thickness that I can't recall the brand as a sufficient thermal barrier. It leaves an aesthetically clean end result, sets up like concrete, and provides (IMO) the same level of protection as 1/2" sheetrock.


Search "ICF plaster";

Single coat applications from 1/8"- ¼" (1/8" replaces ½ gypsum board)

Provides tough protective finish over ICF/SIP's

Impact Resistance (ASTM C1629)

Resistant to fire, moisture, insect, vermin, mold and mildew

Hope this helps


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## mjesse (Feb 5, 2014)

Builder Bob said:
			
		

> Th eproblem witht the exposed ICF is the fact that fire may travel up the ICF units as they deteriorate from thermal exposure......thus allowing a fire to smolder for hours before finally igniting


Agreed.

Except in the case of the OP, the ICF stops 10" above the garage floor. The likelihood of any potential problems the Code addresses IN THIS INSTANCE is infinitesimally small.

This is why Code Officials are given some latitude in addressing concerns. I know what the Code says, I even understand the intent, but looking at the big picture here is important.

Look again at the photo the OP provided in post #9. The frame wall will be covered with sheetrock, his concern is the exposed strip at the floor line.


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## mark handler (Feb 5, 2014)

mjesse said:
			
		

> .... his concern is the exposed strip at the floor line.


Which is where the fire will start.


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## mjesse (Feb 5, 2014)

mark handler said:
			
		

> Which is where the fire will start.


No.

The fire will start at the turkey fryer, or the lawnmower next to the pile of newspapers, or the Tesla electric car.

Let's worry about the separation between the garage and house, and not the petty strip of foam at the bottom of the exterior wall.


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## Francis Vineyard (Feb 5, 2014)

How about ICF exposed in bathrooms, toilet rooms, closets, halls, storage or utility spaces and similar areas do not require a thermal barrier?

*R702.3.4 Insulating concrete form walls.*

Foam plastics for insulating concrete form walls constructed in accordance with :Next('./icod_irc_2012_4_par046.htm')'>Sections R404.1.2 and :Next('./icod_irc_2012_6_par239.htm')'>R611 on the interior of _habitable spaces _shall be protected in accordance with :Next('./icod_irc_2012_3_par211.htm')'>Section R316.4. Use of adhesives in conjunction with mechanical fasteners is permitted. Adhesives used for interior and exterior finishes shall be compatible with the insulating form materials.

*HABITABLE SPACE. *A space in a building for living, sleeping, eating or cooking. Bathrooms, toilet rooms, closets, halls, storage or utility spaces and similar areas are not considered _habitable spaces_.

*ACCEPTANCE CRITERIA FOR STAY-IN-PLACE, FOAM PLASTIC INSULATINGCONCRETE FORM (ICF) SYSTEMS FOR SOLID CONCRETE WALLS4*
​

*3.4 Thermal Barrier: *
​

Except as noted in Section 3.6 of this criteria, a thermal barrier is required to be installed over the interior face of the ICFs. Under IRC Section R702.3.4, the thermal barrier is required to be installed over the interior 
​


face of the ICFs in habitable spaces.

http://www.icc-es.org/Criteria_Development/0710-post/ac353.pdf

http://www.icc-es.org/Criteria_Development/1010-post/13_AC353_combined.pdf


​


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 5, 2014)

I can see your point. You are talking about approximately 55 sq ft of foam 2 inches thick. I bet the average couch has more than that.


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## fatboy (Feb 5, 2014)

I thought this was figured out on the first page of replies, use denseglass on the lowest 6-12" and sheetrock on up from there.........not that complicated.


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## Coder (Feb 11, 2014)

Here is the product I have been looking for.

http://www.barrett-inc.com/icf-coatings.php


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## Msradell (Feb 11, 2014)

Coder said:
			
		

> Here is the product I have been looking for. http://www.barrett-inc.com/icf-coatings.php


It certainly looks very interesting.


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## steveray (Feb 11, 2014)

That looks like a big "Whoops!" FV....In post 27...If someone pushed it I would argue that the habitable space extends into the non-habitable room....

R316.5.1 Masonry or concrete construction.

The thermal barrier specified in Section R316.4 is not required in a masonry or concrete wall, floor or roof when the foam plastic insulation is separated from the interior of the building by a minimum 1-inch (25 mm) thickness of masonry or concrete.


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## JBI (Feb 11, 2014)

Cover it with FRTW if the gypsum is a problem. But do cover it. The only place I left the ICF exposed in my house is in the bilco well. Every where else is covered.


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## jadleybray (Jun 30, 2014)

Off subject a bit, but I'm wondering why the contractor is using ICF in this situation anyhow.  I don't see any benefits to it, the labor saving vs forming is negligible taking into consideration the cost of ICF.


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