# Egress through parking garage



## pquinn (Mar 3, 2021)

Working on a project we took over from another architect. I don't think the egress on the left works. There is no way to exit the garage once you have entered it from the stair and I don't know if the code would allow egress through a garage door. Does anyone know if that would be allowed or would I have to place a manually operated door for egress.


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## classicT (Mar 3, 2021)

Are you sure that the stair is a MOE and not a circulation pathway?

I would agree, it appears to be a interior exit stairway in a rated shaft. If this is the case, the exit discharge should be to the exterior of the building and not to the parking garage.

How many stories is the building?


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## cda (Mar 3, 2021)

does the parking ramp meet code/ slope for exiting??

Also appears either the other side exits into the parking????

Or the stair you ask about is supposed to exit across the drive and back into the building????

So can you indicate on the plans where exit signs are proposed, by past architect ,,    To include the building area on the other side


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## e hilton (Mar 3, 2021)

cda said:


> Also appears either the other side exits into the parking????


I think you are looking at a short setvof steps connecting 2 parking levels.  I think the left side is below grade, that’s why there is no outside door.  Notice the entrance ramp says “down”.  Upper right, there is an “up” ramp, and middle of right side wall is a stairway exit to grade.


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## cda (Mar 3, 2021)

e hilton said:


> I think you are looking at a short setvof steps connecting 2 parking levels.  I think the left side is below grade, that’s why there is no outside door.  Notice the entrance ramp says “down”.  Upper right, there is an “up” ramp, and middle of right side wall is a stairway exit to grade.



Ok just looks strange all the way around 

That is why I wondered where exit signs were originally placed


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## steveray (Mar 3, 2021)

Podium building?


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## Rick18071 (Mar 3, 2021)

A power-operated door can be an exit door. Does not say it needs to be a swinging door but it needs to be able to open manually when the power is off with a certain amount of force.


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## redeyedfly (Mar 3, 2021)

Rick18071 said:


> A power-operated door can be an exit door. Does not say it needs to be a swinging door but it needs to be able to open manually when the power is off with a certain amount of force.


1010.1.2 says it needs to be a swinging door.  

There are many problems with this plan.  
I assume the filled arrows are egress.  You can't be forced to re-enter the building once you are in an interior exit stair.  If the stairs exit to grade above you could swing the door into the stair shaft and use that as one of your MOE.  For the second it could be a man door next to the OH door.  

You also need handicap parking and an accessible route from the parking into the lobby.  You'll need a ramp to the lobby.  Also, the lobby cannot egress into the parking garage unless they're doing some horizontal exit (I doubt it).


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## e hilton (Mar 3, 2021)

redeyedfly said:


> You also need handicap parking and an accessible route from the parking into the lobby.  You'll need a ramp to the lobby.


That might be on the upper parking level.


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## Builder Bob (Mar 3, 2021)

Exit discharge is problematic for the exit --- see public spaces and the fact that once a level of protection is achieved in an exit , it shall me maintained to the exit discharge ---- we often run into this problem with podium buildings. With that being said, a exit door for the garage can enter the stairway for access to the exterior discharge for the stairway.


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## Rick18071 (Mar 4, 2021)

redeyedfly said:


> 1010.1.2 says it needs to be a swinging door.


If that was true all those powered sliding doors at supermarkets would need to be removed. 

1010.1.2 Door swing. Egress doors shall be of the pivoted
or side-hinged swinging type.
Exceptions:
1. Private garages, office areas, factory and storage
areas with an occupant load of 10 or less.
2. Group I-3 occupancies used as a place of detention.
3. Critical or intensive care patient rooms within
suites of health care facilities.
4. Doors within or serving a single dwelling unit in
Groups R-2 and R-3.
5. In other than Group H occupancies, revolving
doors complying with Section 1010.1.4.1.
6. In other than Group H occupancies, special purpose
horizontal sliding, accordion or folding door
assemblies complying with Section 1010.1.4.3.
7*. Power-operated doors in accordance with Section
1010.1.4.2.*
8. Doors serving a bathroom within an individual
sleeping unit in Group R-1.
9. In other than Group H occupancies, manually
operated horizontal sliding doors are permitted in
a means of egress from spaces with an occupant
load of 10 or less.


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## e hilton (Mar 4, 2021)

Rick18071 said:


> If that was true all those powered sliding doors at supermarkets would need to be removed.


They become swinging doors very easily when the power is off.


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## Rick18071 (Mar 4, 2021)

e hilton said:


> They become swinging doors very easily when the power is off.


The code does not agree:

1010.1.4.3 Special purpose horizontal sliding, accordion
or folding doors. In other than Group H occupancies,
special purpose horizontal sliding, accordion or
folding door assemblies permitted to be a component of
a means of egress in accordance with Exception 6 to
Section 1010.1.2 shall comply with all of the following
criteria:
1. The doors shall be power operated and shall be
capable of being operated manually in the event
of power failure.
2. The doors shall be openable by a simple method
from both sides without special knowledge or
effort.
3. The force required to operate the door shall not
exceed 30 pounds (133 N) to set the door in
motion and 15 pounds (67 N) to close or open the
door to the minimum required width.
4. The door shall be openable with a force not to
exceed 15 pounds (67 N) when a force of 250
pounds (1100 N) is applied perpendicular to the
door adjacent to the operating device.
5. The door assembly shall comply with the applicable
fire protection rating and, where rated, shall
be self-closing or automatic closing by smoke
detection in accordance with Section 716.5.9.3,
shall be installed in accordance with NFPA 80
and shall comply with Section 716.
6. The door assembly shall have an integrated
standby power supply.
7. The door assembly power supply shall be electrically
supervised.
8. The door shall open to the minimum required
width within 10 seconds after activation of the
operating device.


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## e hilton (Mar 4, 2021)

My experience with the grocery store doors is ... if you push it, it pops open like a swinging door.  Easy egress.


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## Sifu (Mar 4, 2021)

Rick18071 said:


> A power-operated door can be an exit door. Does not say it needs to be a swinging door but it needs to be able to open manually when the power is off with a certain amount of force.


1010.1.2 requires a side hinge, swing door unless via the exception for a power operated door per 1010.1.4.2 or a special purpose door per 1010.1.4.3, neither of which indicate an overhead door or roll up security grill.  Power operated doors must comply with BHMA standards (my copies do not include roll up or overhead doors).  The power operated door provisions are specifically for the supermarket type doors, not overhead doors or security grills.  I do not believe an overhead door can be used unless maybe in certain occupancies with the limitation for security grills.  I think the exit discharge may be allowed if following the exception criteria in 1028.1 #1, but not without an approved door.

Such a timely forum discussion!  Just yesterday I encountered a similar situation, where a roll up is proposed as an MOE door in an A occupancy.  BEST FORUM EVER!


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## north star (Mar 4, 2021)

*# ( ) #*



> *" Such a timely forum discussion! Just yesterday I encountered a similar situation, where a roll up is proposed as an MOE door in an A occupancy. **BEST FORUM EVER!** "*


*I agree completely !.........If you enjoy the benefits **of this Forum
and all of the available resources it offers, may I respectfully*
*encourage you to become a regular, Paid Subscription Member [  i.e.  -
a Sawhorse  ], and to continue contributing to the Forum ?    *

*# ( ) #*


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## Sifu (Mar 4, 2021)

north star said:


> *# ( ) #*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am.  There is a glitch in the system that won't allow my status to show that I am a sawhorse.


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## north star (Mar 4, 2021)

*@ ~ @*

O.K., thank you for the update !.......I thought that
I remembered that you were a Sawhorse.
*THANK YOU*  for your contributions here !  

Rembo, ...there's a problem here on Aisle 27.
Can you please assist *** Sifu *** with his membership
status ?

`Ol Daredevil Rembo will Git R Done !  

*@ ~ @*


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## Rick18071 (Mar 5, 2021)

Maybe they could use a swinging door that is built into a garage door. Don't know if they make any accessible. i guess there would need to be some safety override so the garage door doesn't rise up when a person is using the swinging door in it.


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## steveray (Mar 5, 2021)

Funny...I was so fixated on the egress through the garage title that I lost sight of the overhead door question....Adding the door may help, but how are you handling exit discharge requirements and egress through intervening spaces?


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## Paul Sweet (Mar 5, 2021)

The yellow stair would have to egress directly to the exterior somewhere above the parking garage, or have an exit passageway (IBC 1024) with the same fire rating as the stair enclosure.  They couldn't call the garage an exit passageway because an exit passageway shall not be used for any purpose other than egress and circulation.

The stair on the right exits directly to the sidewalk, which is OK.  The travel distance from the exercise might be a problem.  The glass on the stair on the right and the lobby into the garage is a problem unless it is fire rated.

Are the accessible parking spaces on the upper parking level?


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## Mech (Mar 5, 2021)

I am not sure if this is applicable to your design or not.

2015 IBC Section 1006.2.2.5 Vehicular Ramps.  Vehicular ramps shall not be considered as an exit access ramp unless pedestrian facilities are provided.


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## Sifu (Mar 8, 2021)

north star said:


> *@ ~ @*
> 
> O.K., thank you for the update !.......I thought that
> I remembered that you were a Sawhorse.
> ...


If I remember correctly the only way to fix it is to re-join the forum, which I didn't want to do as I might lose my history.  No big deal as long as I remember to pay up every two years.


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## jar546 (Mar 9, 2021)

Sifu said:


> If I remember correctly the only way to fix it is to re-join the forum, which I didn't want to do as I might lose my history.  No big deal as long as I remember to pay up every two years.


Sifu,
Thank you for being a Sawhorse.  You paid in August for 2 years.  You have a custom title that you can change that says Gold Member.  You actually are a Sawhorse and have Sawhorse privileges.  If you delete the custom title then it will revert to Sawhorse.


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## north star (Mar 10, 2021)

*~ % ~*

*There ya go **** Sifu **** !.........All you have to do is*
*change \ remove your own customized title.
*
*Thank you Rembo !   *

*~ % ~*


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## Sifu (Mar 11, 2021)

Well HOT DOG!  I'm a sawhorse again.  Thanks JAR, if I would have known it was that easy....I don't know how I got that customized title but it's fixed now.


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## Sifu (Mar 11, 2021)

BTW, if I would have know I could customize my title I would have made up a way cooler title than GOLDMEMBER!


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## ChrisCampbell (Mar 12, 2021)

Looks like this has mostly been resolved, but I would agree with many of the previous posts - an exit is required to either discharge to the exterior OR discharge through an area on the level of exit discharge (IBC 1028.1 Exception 1), with several stipulations if using the latter approach. While a garage could technically meet the requirements of Exception 1, my guess is that most code officials would not accept that arrangement.

On another note, an overhead garage door would not meet any of the door requirements of IBC 1010 for use in a means of egress. You will need a swinging door to leave the garage.


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