# Removal of a NFPA 13 system



## Kao Chen (Oct 28, 2019)

2018 IFC, etc. Is there any circumstance such as a change of occupancy that would allow someone to remove a NFPA 13 sprinkler system from service?

If so, then would the system have to completely removed or could you simply remove heads (plug of course) so there is no expectation of a functioning sprinkler system. 

If you can  please include NFPA, IFC, etc.  code sections, etc.

Thanks


----------



## steveray (Oct 28, 2019)

It would take a bit too long to develop the code path, but basically, if you could build it new now w/o sprinklers, you should be able to remove them.....


----------



## Builder Bob (Oct 28, 2019)

You would have to do more than plug the heads, removal of riser/ DC, etc. would be required - also check with FD if ISO rated, teh building may have an impact on insurance ratings for the general public if the building loses the fire sprinkler system.


----------



## TheCommish (Oct 29, 2019)

In Massachusetts, permission of the Fire Chief is needed to disable/remove a function system, rarely given


----------



## mtlogcabin (Oct 29, 2019)

If it is no longer required by code because of a change of occupancy it can be removed. How much has to be removed should be the call of the fire code official. Riser and all drops would be a minimum here


901.8 Removal of or tampering with equipment.
It shall be unlawful for any person to remove, tamper with or otherwise disturb any fire hydrant, fire detection and alarm system, fire suppression system, or other fire appliance *required by this code* except for the purpose of extinguishing fire, training purposes, recharging or making necessary repairs, or when approved by the fire code official.


----------



## steveray (Oct 29, 2019)

2015 IEBC

701.2 Conformance. An existing building or portion thereof
shall not be altered such that the building becomes less safe
than its existing condition.
Exception: Where the current level of safety or sanitation is proposed to be reduced, the portion altered shall conform to the requirements of the International Building
Code.


----------



## Insurance Engineer (Nov 3, 2019)

Been down this road from an insurance AHJ many times. When they found out how much the insurance premiums for property and liability coverage would increase they changed the plan and left the fire protection in place. At the very least if I was you I would ask for a letter from the insurance carrier NOT the insurance agent indicating they have reviewed the property and approved shutting off the fire protection.


----------



## ADAguy (Nov 5, 2019)

So Mr. Chen, "why" would you want to remove it? Justification?


----------



## Kao Chen (Nov 5, 2019)

Building previously was an A-2 occupancy (nightclub) hence the NFPA 13 system. Occupancy has now changed to business occupancy, no sprinkler required per current or previous codes. The business owner wants to eliminate the monitoring fees and the yearly inspection fees. I'm building not fire and I believe that a system can be removed as long as it is completely removed (that will be expensive). 

Bottom line is that it is a fire code officials call and they say that the system can not be removed but they are not showing this business owner any code references to justify their decision. "Because I tell you so" does not cut it with me!


----------



## my250r11 (Nov 5, 2019)

Kao Chen said:


> Bottom line is that it is a fire code officials call



Depends on where you are some states/AHJ's give the Building Official the final call, even over fire.


----------



## cda (Nov 5, 2019)

Kao Chen said:


> Building previously was an A-2 occupancy (nightclub) hence the NFPA 13 system. Occupancy has now changed to business occupancy, no sprinkler required per current or previous codes. The business owner wants to eliminate the monitoring fees and the yearly inspection fees. I'm building not fire and I believe that a system can be removed as long as it is completely removed (that will be expensive).
> 
> Bottom line is that it is a fire code officials call and they say that the system can not be removed but they are not showing this business owner any code references to justify their decision. "Because I tell you so" does not cut it with me!




Have you sat down with fire and walked them thru the occupancy change, fire sprinkler non requirement, to explain why sprinklers not required.

Dont you kind of have last say??

If fire keeps pushing, let them explain to the city manager, their reasons.


----------



## Kao Chen (Nov 5, 2019)

State of Missouri. No state wide building codes. Strictly local jurisdiction. It took me 10 years to institute a "professional" building & fire code of board of appeals in order to stop the Board of Aldermen from issuing so called variances to the building & fire codes. There is large school district located within the city limits of my jurisdiction and any new education building that was built previous the last 15 years was given a "variance" so the buildings did not have to have a NFPA 13 system installed. What a nightmare.

If it deals with fire (sprinklers, fire alarms, etc) I allow the fire district to decide. It easier that way.


----------

