# Nice Try!!!!  Foundation Draining and Downspout 101



## jar546 (Aug 27, 2014)

Did you really do what I think you did? :banghd

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## fatboy (Aug 28, 2014)

So yeah, even in the semi-arid region of the Great American Desert in Northern Colorado, not a good idea to pipe more water to the foundation area............


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## mjesse (Aug 28, 2014)

Not enough info to determine a problem.

Are we to assume the stand pipe will pick up a downspout from the roof?

  If so, it might still work if you have a sloped lot with the drain running to daylight. But it should have a wye, no?

Is it the straw over the gravel?

  We only use straw in these parts to protect from freezing during construction. Rosin paper/filter fabric should be installed over the pipe

Is it solid pipe? Perforated?

  Can't pickup groundwater without some holes in yer pipe

Need more input


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## fatboy (Aug 28, 2014)

All questions asked of the contractor at inspection, as it appears, doesn't look right. JMHO


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## ICE (Aug 28, 2014)

It appears as though there will be backfill up to the top of the water-proofing.  The standpipe will pick up a swale drain.


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## Darren Emery (Aug 28, 2014)

That's where you pour the hot water in the winter to keep the footings warm.  Nothing worse than cold feet.


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## jar546 (Aug 28, 2014)

Their intention WAS to put the roof drain leaders into the footer drains.  A no no.  Plenty of info in this pic, it tells the story.


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## conarb (Aug 28, 2014)

I just had a city require my drainage be designed by the civil engineer, when I picked up the three pages of engineering I was surprised to see that he had dumped the rain water leader pipes into the perforated foundation drains.  I questioned him on it, telling him that I have always installed two systems, he said there was nothing wrong with using the perforated pipe for other drainage.  After picking up the approved plans from the city they approved it that way, I don't like it and will install two separated systems, but the question is what does the code say?


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## TheCommish (Aug 28, 2014)

The purpose of footing drains to relive ground from the water basement sand below grade areas.

So I explain it to the contractors like this, you are out fishing in your hip waders, your feet are dry, it then start to  rain, would you hold  up an inverted umbrella  attach tubing to it and drain it into your boots?

I don’t have a problem with window wells hooked to the footing drain, just roof leaders


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## conarb (Aug 28, 2014)

Commish said:
			
		

> I don’t have a problem with window wells hooked to the footing drain, just roof leaders


While I agree if it's not in the code it's not your call, in fact if there is a problem a case can be maintained that you are liable since it was done to your demands.

If there is a code section I'd like to know to confront this CE.


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## steveray (Aug 28, 2014)

apparently we have taken a step backwards in the IRC.....If you have precast panels you can dump into the sewer.......

R405.1.1 Precast concrete foundation. Precast concrete walls that retain earth and enclose habitable or useable space located below-grade that rest on crushed stone footings shall have a perforated drainage pipe installed below the base of the wall on either the interior or exterior side of the wall, at least one foot (305 mm) beyond the edge of the wall. If the exterior drainage pipe is used, an approved filter membrane material shall cover the pipe. The drainage system shall discharge into an approved sewer system or to daylight.

Of course it depends on who is APPROVING.....

Conarb, I do not think it is in any "code", only thing I can think of is listing or standard of pipe......Which I am not going to chase, someone smarter than me can.  I have my basement sump (can't hit daylight) tied into my piping that brings my rain leaders out to my low lot corner with a check and full open valve, I would never do it at footing level, but the 2 systems can be tied together safely IMHO....

I didn't see anything in IRC Ch 4 or IPC Ch 11....


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## conarb (Aug 28, 2014)

steve said:
			
		

> I didn't see anything in IRC Ch 4 or IPC Ch 11....


Something should be, of course my civil engineers design "could" override the code.  I had a home once where there were separate systems in the architect's design (before they made engineers here do everything), he then tied them together with a "Y" and one pipe went out through the curb.  I ran both pipes through the curb since I had visions of the pipe getting plugged up and backing up through the perforated pipe.

Absent a code section I guess the DPOR can do what he wants, including leaving both out, no wonder this city is requiring that a civil engineer design all drainage systems.


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## TheCommish (Aug 29, 2014)

2009 IRC

R401.3 Drainage. Surface drainage shall be diverted to a storm sewer conveyance or other approved point of collection that does not create a hazard. Lots shall be graded to drain surface water away from foundation walls. The grade shall fall a minimum of 6 inches (152 mm)within the first 10 feet (3048 mm).

In my opinion roof water is surface drainage and a footing drain is not a storm sewer conveyance.


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## conarb (Aug 29, 2014)

TheCommish said:
			
		

> 2009 IRCR401.3 Drainage. Surface drainage shall be diverted to a storm sewer conveyance or other approved point of collection that does not create a hazard. Lots shall be graded to drain surface water away from foundation walls. The grade shall fall a minimum of 6 inches (152 mm)within the first 10 feet (3048 mm).
> 
> In my opinion roof water is surface drainage and a footing drain is not a storm sewer conveyance.


Commish:

I see your point, we have that section in tact, but the Green code says:



			
				2013 California Green Code said:
			
		

> *RESIDENTIAL MANDATORY MEASURES**4.106.3 Grading and paving.* Construction plans shall indicate
> 
> how the site grading or drainage system will manage all
> 
> ...


In initially talking to them they demanded the civil engineer design the system (I initially had a one page survey with the home plotted on it), then he "highly encouraged" me to run roof water into landscaping areas and not conducted into the storm drainage system,  he then highly encouraged me to limit hard surface areas by installing permeable paving for driveways, walks, and patio areas.  In the end, after the CE had submitted his three pages of plans and specifications I was assessed a hard surface fee of $651.00 labeled as "Drainage Improvements - Zone 57".

I see conflicts between the building code and the Green Code, I also see AHJs attempting to force engineering, once they have engineering some AHJs (like this one) make no changes fearing the assumption of liability, they are attempting to force liability to the engineers, there was not one red line on the drawings once they had all the engineering.


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## TheCommish (Aug 29, 2014)

I like the ICC codes family as they most often are coordinated well and tend not to contradict each outer. However sometimes they lack definitions for key terms and purpose statements for what appear to be common sense items, which have regional preferences.

As in the example of this thread;

Footing drain= a drain around the perimeter of the foundation  enclosing a basement intended to relive hydrostatic pressure  and ground water from entering the  basement of the building. Now we have to look at the definition of basement)

French drain = a drain around the property not connected to the footing drain intended to relive and/or intercept and re direct  ground water,  sometimes called a curtain drain.

Here in NE where lots ground water, roof drainage and hard surface water are a problem. Compared to those dry areas where the green code comes in and wants to reuse water.

On our subdivision plans due to ground water recharge requirement, we now see detail on putting subsurface recharge drains in for roof draining systems one for each lot, this detail is seen maybe by the road developer then cast aside. I asked the supervising engineer for subdivision plan review who enforces this requirement when home are built, his answer was me the BO, so I asked why not run the roof leader of on to the ground and let it soak in. Alas this is not good enough; since gutters are not required here in the country area for residential buildings the requirement is long forgotten.

Just another example of codes gone amuck for the supposed common good.

Enough form me just some verbal garbage at this point


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