# ADA - warm viewing



## rbcameron1 (Dec 9, 2015)

Had an interesting one pop up.

So you know when you have a set of bleachers in a stadium or arena and you have your seats and then areas for the disabled?  That meets ADA.

But if I do the same thing on the "warm side" of an ice hockey rink, it seems I get penalized.  I'm providing a slightly raised platform (less than 20") for seating and then a similar viewing area adjacent to that space for disabled/wheelchair patrons.  Granted, there is a different viewpoint for those 20" up, I'm not deterring disabled visitors from the same "experience" of viewing the ice hockey game through a glazed opening.

Basically all things are the same except I have a slightly raised platform that is less than 400SF for a handful of visitors who can walk up two or three steps.

Do I have to provide a ramp to that small of an area, when I am providing the same amenity to both occupant types?  If so, then why don't all arenas/stadiums/auditoriums allow access to every seat configuration imaginable?  It just isn't feasible.

Thanks,


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## cda (Dec 9, 2015)

Seats cost money


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## steveray (Dec 9, 2015)

Both areas are heated?


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## rbcameron1 (Dec 9, 2015)

yes



			
				steveray said:
			
		

> Both areas are heated?


Yes, they are side by side next to each other and both heated.

Does anyone know what specific ADA or ANSI code states something to this effect?  Is the code official determining how high is too high for a platform?  That doesn't seem right unless there is a specific guideline prohibiting it from being used.


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## mark handler (Dec 9, 2015)

rbcameron1 said:
			
		

> 1. Do I have to provide a ramp to that small of an area, when I am providing the same amenity to both occupant types?  ...
> 
> 2.  then why don't all arenas/stadiums/auditoriums allow access to every seat configuration imaginable?...


1. Depends, do you want to be sued? Not If,  when?

2. They are being Sued to provide access


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## ADAguy (Dec 10, 2015)

You have chosen to provide it, the code doesn't require you to provide it. If you provide it, "you must comply".

By raising it and not allowing access you are setting it apart from others.


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## conarb (Dec 10, 2015)

ADAguy:

I once told you that this unconstitutional civil rights law is temporary and has to end at some point, as I recall you asked when, I answered that Justice O'Connor gave it another 15 years 12 years ago.  As I've also told you the root of this is going to be the educational institutions.  Of course nobody knows when the courts are going to end all civil rights laws, but yesterday Chief Justice Roberts asked the same question:



> *Chief Justice John Roberts Wants To Know Exactly When Affirmative Action Can Die....*
> 
> *In a contentious hearing, the Supreme Court shows deep divisions on whether race can remain a factor in college admissions.*
> 
> ...


When the constitutionality of the civil rights law first came up Justice Brennen stated that that black rights were a "compelling interest" to override the constitutional equal protections guarantees, the disabled, women, and other suspect classes piggybacked on top of that compelling interest, it seems to me that should never have been allowed, but if we get rid of special protections for blacks we should certainly rid ourselves of special protections for the disabled, particularly in light of all the abuse we see on a daily basis here.

¹ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/supreme-court-affirmative-action-university_56686835e4b0f290e5217b20


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## cda (Dec 10, 2015)

ADAguy said:
			
		

> You have chosen to provide it, the code doesn't require you to provide it. If you provide it, "you must comply". By raising it and not allowing access you are setting it apart from others.


What  about the top row, nose bleed seats???  I want access there!


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## rbcameron1 (Dec 10, 2015)

exactly



			
				cda said:
			
		

> What  about the top row, nose bleed seats???  I want access there!


That's exactly my point.


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## cda (Dec 10, 2015)

Not Ada enforcer Ada,

But aren't you required to provide X number of handicapp seats?

If you hit that number, than what you do with the rest of the place is your call??


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## ADAguy (Dec 10, 2015)

A band of brothers are we, on a see saw. Rindquist? really called it on the Texas case yesterday didn't he?

Without diversity imagine what the Supreme Court would look like?


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## rbcameron1 (Dec 10, 2015)

cda said:
			
		

> Not Ada enforcer Ada,But aren't you required to provide X number of handicapp seats?
> 
> If you hit that number, than what you do with the rest of the place is your call??


We've hit our number for ADA seats inside and outside of the rink.  No matter how you look at it, you'll always be providing seats/spaces that just aren't ever going to be accessible to wheelchairs.

I've been in a wheelchair before, it isn't fun and its restricting. However, its nice when spaces are provided.


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## conarb (Dec 10, 2015)

ADAguy said:
			
		

> A band of brothers are we, on a see saw. Rindquist? really called it on the Texas case yesterday didn't he? Without diversity imagine what the Supreme Court would look like?


The constitution says nothing about diversity and it hasn't been amended to include diversity, Justice Thomas is the only black on the court and he's always been against affirmative action on the basis it makes him look inferior.



			
				\ said:
			
		

> Affirmative action (though it wasn't yet called that) had become a fact of like at American college and universities, and before long I realized that those blacks who benefited from it were being judged by a double standard. As much as it stung to be told that I'd done well in the seminary DESPITE my race, it was far worse to feel that I was now at Yale BECAUSE of it. I sought to vanquish the perception that I was somehow inferior to my white classmates by obtaining special permission to carry more than the maximum number of credit hours and by taking a rigorous curriculum of courses in such traditional areas as corporate law, bankruptcy, and commercial transactions. How could anyone dare to doubt my abilities if I excelled in such demanding classes?It was futile for me to suppose that I could escape the stigmatizing effects of racial preference, and I began to fear that it would be used forever after to discount my achievements. ¹


Just like blacks being given unconstitutional rights harming others the disabled are now disliked because they are getting special rights harming others.

BTW, above I said Justice O'Connor gave civil rights 15 more years 12 years ago, now I see she gave it 25 mores years 12 years ago.  But Roberts' question remains, when is it going to end?

¹ http://www.ontheissues.org/Court/Clarence_Thomas_Civil_Rights.htm


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## mark handler (Dec 10, 2015)

ADA Sections 221.1 and 221.2 of the ADA 2010 Standards require a 1000-seat venue to have 10 wheelchair-accessible seats dispersed *horizontally and vertically.*

This means seating in a variety of locations not all grouped together and in a variety of heights.


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## ADAguy (Dec 11, 2015)

That would appear to be 1%. allowing for companions and two togethers that would appear to be up to 5 locations or less depending on design.

As MH has noted, there are minimums, given that, "What then is the beef?"


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