# You make the call:  NEC 110.26



## jar546 (Jan 25, 2011)

New natural gas pipe run below the panelboard.

What say you?







Would 110.26(F)(1)(b) allow you to approve this?

Sorry for the fuzzy picture


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## georgia plans exam (Jan 25, 2011)

I don't think 110.26(F)(1)(a) allows it. 2008 edition.

GPE


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## Coug Dad (Jan 25, 2011)

I think (b) does allow it.


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## jar546 (Jan 25, 2011)

Coug Dad said:
			
		

> I think (b) does allow it.


(b) only applies to "above" the panel.  Sort of a trick question


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## Coug Dad (Jan 25, 2011)

I stand corrected.  nothing is allowed in the space.  non hazardous materials are permitted above the space.


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## steveray (Jan 26, 2011)

2003 IRC allows 6" projections past the front of the eqipment, above and *below*, as long as they are associated with the electrical equipment...no gas    E3305.2


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## mtlogcabin (Jan 26, 2011)

I would not allow it either because the future counter will stick to far off the wall


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## Jobsaver (Jan 26, 2011)

I think the gas pipe is okay per exception (a) Dead-Front Assemblies: Working space shall not be required in the back or sides of assemblies, . . . where all connections and all renewable or adjustable parts, such as fuses or switches, are accessible from locations other than the back or sides, . . .

Edit: nec2008: 110.26: (A)(1)(a)


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## jar546 (Jan 26, 2011)

Jobsaver said:
			
		

> I think the gas pipe is okay per exception (a) Dead-Front Assemblies: Working space shall not be required in the back or sides of assemblies, . . . where all connections and all renewable or adjustable parts, such as fuses or switches, are accessible from locations other than the bacl or sides, . . .


This is not a working space violation, it is a Dedicated Work Space violation.

Also, exception (a) of what?


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## Jobsaver (Jan 26, 2011)

NEC110.26: (A)(1)(a).


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## jar546 (Jan 26, 2011)

Yes, 110.26(A) is about working space, not dedicated equipment space, 110.26(F) covers that which is what applies.  2 different requirements.


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## Jobsaver (Jan 26, 2011)

I was blind but now I see. On an indoor installation, the pipe is not allowed, but the suspended ceiling is okay.


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## Min&Max (Jan 26, 2011)

Looks like the electrical contractor needs tp move his panel.


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## Pcinspector1 (Jan 26, 2011)

IRC2006 does not allow plumbing pipe below the panel anymore. If thats MC should be secured to wall. Grounding conductor should be protected with conduit below the ceiling. Working clearance in front of panel should be 30"x36".


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## Forest (Jan 26, 2011)

the easy way out,build wall around panel,Pipe no longer beneath panel enclosed in wall.


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## Francis Vineyard (Jan 26, 2011)

What are the chances that electrical will need to come through that area directly below the panel where this obstruction will create a hazard or dangerous condition?

I’ve allowed this where all the electrical was fed from the back side or over the panel as shown and not likely through the concrete floor below. Would it make sense to have this gas line re-routed over the panel and comply with the exception 110.26(F)(1)(b)?


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## jar546 (Jan 26, 2011)

That would be a better option.  Take advantage of 110.26(F)(1)(b)


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## Francis Vineyard (Jan 26, 2011)

It would be simpler to go over the work space 6½ ft from the floor in front of the panel instead of the dedicated equipment space of more than 6 feet above the panel or structural ceiling.


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## inspector444 (Jan 26, 2011)

jar546 said:
			
		

> That would be a better option.  Take advantage of 110.26(F)(1)(b)


Just for the sake of argument,

Are you saying to move the gas line 6 ft. above the panel to take it out of the dedicated space???? I read "(b)" as allowing foreign systems in locations above the equipment (very high ceilings).

If I were making the "call" - I might miss this one and fight another day.

Steve


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## north star (Jan 26, 2011)

*$ $ $ $*

I'm thinking that the prudent, more practical solution would be to

contact the AHJ in the 1st place BEFORE installing the new line.

Jeff did not say if this was in his AHJ.

I would have to concur with Forest on this one.....Build a box

around it.

inspector444,

Welcome to the *"Yet Un-named Where Obsessive Compulsive*

*Disorder, ...Hair-Splitting, ...Code Rendering, ...Gray Area Dwelling*

*Know-It-Alls Hangout"* forum!.....We're feisty, but overall, ...pretty

helpful!  

*$ $ $ $*


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## Francis Vineyard (Jan 26, 2011)

inspector444 said:
			
		

> If I were making the "call" - I might miss this one and fight another day.
> 
> Steve


Very good tactful statement!

(a) Dedicated Electrical Space. The space equal to the width and depth of the equipment and extending from the floor to a height of 6 ft. above the equipment or to the structural ceiling, whichever is lower, shall be dedicated to the electrical installation. No piping, ducts, leak protection apparatus, or other equipment foreign to the electrical installation shall be located in this zone.

(b) Foreign Systems. The area above the dedicated space required by 110.26(F)(1)(a) shall be permitted to contain foreign systems, provided protection is installed to avoid damage to the electrical equipment from condensation leaks, or breaks in such foreign systems.


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## jar546 (Jan 26, 2011)

I am not AHJ in this area.  Once again in there to cover a discipline this municipality does not have.

Bottom line.  It is wrong and how they decide to correct it is their decision.


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## BSSTG (Feb 3, 2011)

I don't see how building a box around the pipe helps. It's still supposed to be dedicated space under the panel equal to the depth of the panel to the floor. That tells me it should be nothing there but wiring, conduit, etc.

Byron


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## Glennman CBO (Feb 3, 2011)

I'm not an electrical guy, but can the dedicated space be measured from the face of the panel? If the panel was, say, 12" from the wall, would this reduce the dedicated space's depth by 12", thus giving you only 24" in front of the panel (I'm guessing that the dedicated space is 36" deep)?

In other words, is the depth of the panel included in the depth measurement? This surface mount panel would give you less depth than a "flush" panel at its front.


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## Francis Vineyard (Feb 3, 2011)

Glennman CBO said:
			
		

> I'm not an electrical guy, but can the dedicated space be measured from the face of the panel? If the panel was, say, 12" from the wall, would this reduce the dedicated space's depth by 12", thus giving you only 24" in front of the panel (I'm guessing that the dedicated space is 36" deep)?In other words, is the depth of the panel included in the depth measurement? This surface mount panel would give you less depth than a "flush" panel at its front.


To restate if the panel is move forward and mounted so as the rear of the panel is beyond the gas pipe then the pipe is behind the dedicated space. That would be compliant IMO.

However in the OP the panel was set first and then the gas line, either way hopefully someone will have a learning experience.


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## Min&Max (Feb 3, 2011)

It would appear the electrical contractor failed to determine if the location of the new panel was going to be clear of other installations. If a correction was deemed to be absolutely necessary I would go with Francis Vineyards method.

Doesn't matter who was there first. It is an electrical violation and the electrical contractor is responsible for making his installation code compliant.

From my perspective it is not worth the bother of "correcting".


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## Glennman CBO (Feb 4, 2011)

Would the method of measurement (in my 2005 NEC) for working space be the same as for dedicated space, since there is no method of measuring prescribed for the dedicated space?


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## Francis Vineyard (Feb 4, 2011)

http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2003/icod_irc_2003_33_sec005.htm

http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/irc/2006f2/icod_irc_2006f2_33_sec005.htm

Check out the IRC figures; note change adding “from floor” to dedicated space in 2006 IRC (2005 NEC). 

Appendix Q in the IRC cross references to the NEC


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## Glennman CBO (Feb 4, 2011)

Those are good illustrations. Thanks Francis.


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