# Truncated Domes at Door Landing



## mychaelp (Jul 27, 2020)

Can someone point me to the section that states the truncated domes cannot be placed within the door landing clear space? I think it's obvious, and also the plan checker isn't allowing it for me, but my client wants it specifically spelled out. I feel "clear space" means nothing there, not even the domes. 
Thanks!


----------



## steveray (Jul 27, 2020)

Truncated domes are typically not required.....


----------



## mychaelp (Jul 27, 2020)

steveray said:


> Truncated domes are typically not required.....


sorry I wasn't clear. out side the door is a 5' walkway and then to a accessible route to a trash enclosure. I'm editing my original question,


----------



## RLGA (Jul 27, 2020)

What is it that has someone thinking they must have truncated domes at the doorway?


----------



## Pcinspector1 (Jul 27, 2020)

That's a new one, haven't heard of that one. Is this a high rise type building with an entrance to a city sidewalk?


----------



## steveray (Jul 27, 2020)

Is it a raised marked crossing? I would say not required or prohibited based on the information given....


----------



## mychaelp (Jul 27, 2020)

Pcinspector1 said:


> That's a new one, haven't heard of that one. Is this a high rise type building with an entrance to a city sidewalk?


I wish I could figure out how to add a photo here. It's a little auto lube bldg and we are adding to the site, so now this old lube bldg needs a ADA route to the trash enclousre. Just outside the door is a 5' sidewalk with a curb/cut ramp to the drive. So we need the truncated domes, but there is so little room. IN the past the plan checkers would not allow any domes in the clear floor space for doors so we placed them outside of those area, but in this case there isn't room. So I began wondering if there is another interpretation somewhere someone else may have used to get around it, especially for existing buildings.  thanks for the help


----------



## Pcinspector1 (Jul 27, 2020)

Clear width is also in section 1009.32 Stairway width, so is the reviewer stating no attachments to steps like runners are allowed? Aggregated nose strips allowed?


----------



## RLGA (Jul 27, 2020)

According to the 2010 ADA Standards and ANSI A117.1, detectable warnings are only required at unprotected edges of train platforms.


----------



## ADAguy (Jul 27, 2020)

Only required at bottom of curb ramp slope at a hazardous way or head of access aisle at a "0" curb condition adjacent to a POT


----------



## Pcinspector1 (Jul 27, 2020)

Do the auto lube business usually have domed floor type to prevent slipping, I can't see where this would be an issue, I'm missing something hear, I think.


----------



## mychaelp (Jul 27, 2020)

Pcinspector1 said:


> Do the auto lube business usually have domed floor type to prevent slipping, I can't see where this would be an issue, I'm missing something hear, I think.


----------



## e hilton (Jul 27, 2020)

Pcinspector1 said:


> Do the auto lube business usually have domed floor type to prevent slipping.


I don’t think of the truncated domes as being slip resistant, and actually since they are hard and smooth I would think they would be more slippery than a concrete walk.


----------



## Yikes (Jul 27, 2020)

Where is the project located?  More specifically, what is the applicable code for your project?

For example, if located in California, we have an additional requirement that exceeds ADA Standards:

_11B-247.1.2.5
If a walk crosses or adjoins a vehicular way, and the walking surfaces are not separated by curbs, railings or other elements between the pedestrian areas and vehicular areas.the boundary between the areas shall be defined by a continuous detectable warning complying with section 11B-705.1.1 and 11B-705.1.2.5._


----------



## ADAguy (Jul 27, 2020)

e hilton said:


> I don’t think of the truncated domes as being slip resistant, and actually since they are hard and smooth I would think they would be more slippery than a concrete walk.



I can "true" this, especially in leather shoes or the rain.


----------



## mark handler (Jul 27, 2020)

mychaelp said:


> Can someone point me to the section that states the truncated domes cannot be placed within the door landing clear space? I think it's obvious, and also the plan checker isn't allowing it for me, but my client wants it specifically spelled out. I feel "clear space" means nothing there, not even the domes.
> Thanks!


*is this residential or commercial?
Why are they there?
who requested them?*


----------



## TheCommish (Jul 27, 2020)

Look at the requirement for smooth non slip floor finishes


----------



## steveray (Jul 28, 2020)

TheCommish said:


> Look at the requirement for smooth non slip floor finishes



That's a slippery slope......Not sure I want to claim that truncated domes are both mandated and not allowed by code......


----------



## ADAguy (Jul 28, 2020)

Hmmm?


----------



## RLGA (Jul 28, 2020)

Getting back to the topic...since the ADA Standards and ANSI A117.1-2009 do not require detectable warnings for your situation, what is? 

Is there a local requirement; did they adopt the older ADAAG as a local or state accessibility code and haven't revised it; or have they adopted an older edition of the IBC that references ANSI A117.1-2003?


----------



## JPohling (Jul 28, 2020)

code that your under,  a site plan or a photograph is needed of this path,  it does not seem like it leads to a condition that we can imagine would need detectable warnings, but we do not understand the specific condition.


----------



## Sifu (Jul 28, 2020)

The OP asks for code sections not allowing the domes.  I don't know of any specifically not allowing them.  Code can't cover everything.  If they are not slip resistant then that would be a direction, but if that is the case, is the inclusion of them at a train platform such a good idea?  Are they considered an obstruction by the AHJ?  IMHO I think they are useful in limited situations to communicate a hazard, but in other cases they can become a hazard.


----------



## ADAguy (Jul 28, 2020)

mychaelp said:


> Can someone point me to the section that states the truncated domes cannot be placed within the door landing clear space? I think it's obvious, and also the plan checker isn't allowing it for me, but my client wants it specifically spelled out. I feel "clear space" means nothing there, not even the domes.
> Thanks!


"clear" means free of obstructions, "clear" means 2% cross slope max ea/wy, clear means surface texture may not vary by more than 1/4" TD's don't. Rubber inset walk mats could be used if he is concerned about slipping.


----------



## Pcinspector1 (Jul 28, 2020)

Pcinspector1 said:


> Do the auto lube business usually have domed floor type to prevent slipping, I can't see where this would be an issue, I'm missing something hear, I think.



This is what I envisioned for the lube business


----------



## ADAguy (Jul 29, 2020)

If rubber and not plastic or tile they have a higher degree of slip resistance.


----------



## Sifu (Jul 30, 2020)

So, related to this I am curious.  I have had complaints about the truncated domes being over-used where not needed, creating trip hazards, problems for slipping, and for folks in high heels (notice I did not discriminate!)  Any opinions?  I don't know of a code that restricts their use but I'm not sure there shouldn't be one.


----------



## ADAguy (Jul 30, 2020)

If you "chose" to where not required at a minimum, do so at your own risk.


----------



## jar546 (Jul 30, 2020)

It seems as though every time we have a truncated dome discussion it is always very active.  Interesting....


----------



## ADAguy (Jul 30, 2020)

unintended consequences can do that


----------

