# Chicken Rotisserie Ovens



## beach (Nov 3, 2009)

Are chicken rotisserie ovens, (which are typically listed, self contained oven units) required to have fire suppression, hood and exhaust systems? It appears NFPA 96 requires it......


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## TJacobs (Nov 3, 2009)

Re: Chicken Rotisserie Ovens



			
				beach said:
			
		

> Are chicken rotisserie ovens, (which are typically listed, self contained oven units) required to have fire suppression, hood and exhaust systems? It appears NFPA 96 requires it......


Yes because they will be producing grease laden vapors.


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## JBI (Nov 3, 2009)

Re: Chicken Rotisserie Ovens

I would tend to agree with my esteemed colleague from Illinois.


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## beach (Nov 3, 2009)

Re: Chicken Rotisserie Ovens

Thanks! I agree...however, there is some argument that some rotisserie ovens are "self contained" and completely confine grease-laden vapors to within the unit, thereby negating the need for suppression, hood and exhaust. I haven't physically looked at the units, but the question did arise.


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## brudgers (Nov 3, 2009)

Re: Chicken Rotisserie Ovens



			
				beach said:
			
		

> Thanks! I agree...however, there is some argument that some rotisserie ovens are "self contained" and completely confine grease-laden vapors to within the unit, thereby negating the need for suppression, hood and exhaust. I haven't physically looked at the units, but the question did arise.


If they have their own fire suppression then they are indeed self contained.

Otherwise you've got grease and heat and no fire suppression.


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## TJacobs (Nov 3, 2009)

Re: Chicken Rotisserie Ovens



			
				beach said:
			
		

> Thanks! I agree...however, there is some argument that some rotisserie ovens are "self contained" and completely confine grease-laden vapors to within the unit, thereby negating the need for suppression, hood and exhaust. I haven't physically looked at the units, but the question did arise.


You have to open the door sometime to retrieve the product...hence grease laden vapor release.


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## atomahutna (Nov 3, 2009)

Re: Chicken Rotisserie Ovens



			
				beach said:
			
		

> Thanks! I agree...however, there is some argument that some rotisserie ovens are "self contained" and completely confine grease-laden vapors to within the unit, thereby negating the need for suppression, hood and exhaust. I haven't physically looked at the units, but the question did arise.


Tell them that's fine as long as they never oprn them.


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## cda (Nov 3, 2009)

Re: Chicken Rotisserie Ovens

would say NO because it is like a oven!!!! do you protect an enclosed oven??????


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## beach (Nov 3, 2009)

Re: Chicken Rotisserie Ovens



> would say NO because it is like a oven!!!! do you protect an enclosed oven??????


That's exactly what I was alluding to! However, I think a chicken rotisserie would produce much more grease and flames.... my gut tells me a full system would be required but practically, if it's the same as an enclosed oven......I still don't know. Anybody have any chicken rotisserie's out there???   :|


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## beach (Nov 3, 2009)

Re: Chicken Rotisserie Ovens

IF you had to provide an Ansul type system, where would you put the fusible link? You can't put it in the enclosed unit because the temp. would be too high......Ok, I'm going with cda and calling it the same as an oven....no suppression.

Thanks guys!!


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## cda (Nov 3, 2009)

Re: Chicken Rotisserie Ovens

Check your local grocery store, most are doing the funky chicken

http://www.acitydiscount.com/Alto-Shaam ... 69.1.1.htm


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## globe trekker (Nov 4, 2009)

Re: Chicken Rotisserie Ovens

beach,

I agree with cda!   Around these parts, almost every covenience

store and grocery store has one or more of these type self

contained units.    It's a good device to help generate revenues!

Besides, if I tried to require a Type I hood & suppression system,

I would be un-employed by the time I got back to the office.    

"Don't mess with the chicken!"  :lol:


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## depfm66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Re: Chicken Rotisserie Ovens

We have a Sam's in our juristiction that just renovated the store and installed three rotisserie ovens. They have a Type 1 hood system with fire suppression system. These are also listed in the IMC. The fusible links are a higher temperature located in the hood assembly. Would you believe Sam's sells 10,000 pounds of chicken rotisserie a week?

Great site by the way, better than the ICC message board.


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## JBI (Dec 18, 2009)

Re: Chicken Rotisserie Ovens

depfm66 - Welcome to the board. If you wre a member of the OLD ICC Board, you will recognize many of the names here. Come back often, it's a lot of fun and occasionally we actually provide some great information.


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## RJJ (Dec 20, 2009)

Re: Chicken Rotisserie Ovens

cda: no you don't protect a closed oven! The code here leaves an area open for debate. The words grease laden seem to be the issue. Needs to be clearer!


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## vegas paul (Dec 20, 2009)

Re: Chicken Rotisserie Ovens

Interesting discussion - I'm not sure which side of the fence I'm on, if you want a strict one-size-fits-all answer.  I've seen plenty of these, and I ALWAYS ask for the listing and mfg. installation instructions.  I actually ask for cut sheets, listings, and mfg. installation instructions for anything that has a permanent connection to fuel gas, water, drain/waste or electrical with regards to food service establishments.  So I have two complete packages for dishwashers, coolers, fryers, hoods, cooktops, walk-in coolers, refrigerated displays, etc. - one for the office, and one for the inspector to verify correct installations.

Anyway, if the listing specifically states that no hood is required, or only a type II, etc. then that's what I go with.  Otherwise, I treat it like any other oven.

Not to derail this thread, but I'd be interested if everyone asks for commercial kitchen cutsheets, etc. for all devices?


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## cda (Dec 20, 2009)

Re: Chicken Rotisserie Ovens

not normaly, unless something have not seen before

one other way to think, and not so much with the chains, but the equipment changes over the years and the ahj may or may not know about changes.


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## Uncle Bob (Dec 20, 2009)

Re: Chicken Rotisserie Ovens

I agree with Vegas Paul,

Although, I make it a point to purchase and attempt to keep up with, the full set of codes each code cycle; my area of interest and expertise (for lack of a better word) lies in the International Residential Codes.

Without thumbing through the Mechanical, Fuel Gas, and Fire Codes; which I believe should be in agreement with the IRC on this subject; I always have required the Manufacturer's Installation Instructions to be on site at time of inspection.  When I come upon a product's instructions where the manufacturer attempts to pass any responsibility conserning any part of the installtion; I look at the manufacturer's warrany.

Some manufacturers use the terms; prefered, suggested, and recommended when they don't want to take responsibility for a specific installation (it is usually more costly, and the manufacturer doesn't want the cost to effect the purchase of their product).  In those cases I have contacted the manufacturer and asked if the warranty is voided if the "prefered, suggested, and/or recommended" installation guidelines are not followed.  In all cases the manufacture has replied that "the warranty is voided".

I don't have the other code books on hand (packed up);

However, IRC, R102.4  Referenced codes and standards.

"Exception:  Where enforcement of a code provision would violate the conditions of the listing of the equipment or appliance. the conditions of the listing and manufacturer's instructions shall apply."

To use any code or standard for installation which violates the manufacturer's listing and/or installtion instructions; places the full burden of responsibility on the Building Official, relieves the manufacturer of any liability, and ususally voids the warranty.

Not a good thing,

Uncle Bob


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## FM William Burns (Dec 20, 2009)

Re: Chicken Rotisserie Ovens

VP,

To answer the question, I do for all fire protection and detection systems.  I handle the "closed" cooking appliance in a similar manner as you also.  We evaluate it like we teach the public with oven fire prevention.  If you remove the heat, fuel or oxygen the fire progression reduces.  We also make sure if the appliance has glass it's rated and listed for very high temperatures.


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## joemm210 (Mar 2, 2020)

I know this is an old thread but I wanted to post this information if you are in Alberta Canada most items are spelled out in this document.

http://www.municipalaffairs.alberta.ca/documents/14-FCI-005_14-BCI-022.pdf

there it says you DO NOT need to put a rotisserie oven under a hood system


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## ADAguy (Mar 2, 2020)

No mention by anyone as to this requirement being for commercial applications (as in markets and big boxes (not IRC's) or the need to "Maintain" grease collectors to prevent flareups


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## mark handler (Mar 2, 2020)

CMC 508.0 Type I Hoods
508.1 Where Required Type I hoods shall be installed at or above commercial-type deep-fat fryers, broilers, grills, hottop ranges, ovens, barbecues, rotisseries, and similar equipment that emits comparable amounts of smoke or grease in a food-processing establishment. For the purpose of this section, a food-processing establishment shall include a building or portion thereof used for the processing of food, but shall not include a dwelling unit.


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## mark handler (Mar 2, 2020)

IMC 507.2.1 Type I Hoods
Type I hoods shall be installed where cooking appliances produce grease or smoke. Type I hoods shall be installed over medium-duty, heavy-duty and extra-heavy-duty cooking appliances. Type I hoods shall be installed over light-duty cooking appliances that produce grease or smoke.


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## cda (Mar 2, 2020)

Wrong thread


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## mark handler (Mar 2, 2020)

cda said:


> Wrong thread


For what?


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## cda (Mar 2, 2020)

mark handler said:


> For what?




For the reply I was going to leave..


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## jpranch (Mar 3, 2020)

Wow, this is an oldie but a goodie! Here you go. From the 2018 IMC Commentary: 
MEDIUM-DUTY COOKING APPLIANCE. Mediumduty
cooking appliances include electric discrete element
ranges (with or without oven), electric and gas hot-top
ranges, electric and gas griddles, electric and gas doublesided
griddles, electric and gas fryers (including open deep
fat fryers, donut fryers, kettle fryers and pressure fryers),
electric and gas conveyor pizza ovens, electric and gas tilting
skillets (braising pans) and electric and gas rotisseries.
❖ The list of appliances included in the definition is fairly
comprehensive and is intended to represent most of
the common appliances that would be classified as
“medium duty.” The airflow rates required in Section
507.5.3 are less than those required for the heavyduty
cooking appliances but high enough to adequately
capture and contain the cooking effluents.
Electric and gas pasta cookers were removed from
this definition and placed under the definition for
“Light-duty cooking appliance.”

507.5.3 Medium-duty cooking appliances. The minimum
net airflow for hoods, as determined by Section 507.1, used
for medium-duty cooking appliances shall be determined as
follows:
❖ The quantity of exhaust required for Type I hoods
serving medium-duty cooking appliances must be in
accordance with this section. Some examples of
medium-duty cooking appliances are rotisseries, griddles,
deep fat fryers and conveyor pizza ovens (see
commentary for the definition of “Medium-duty cooking
appliance,” Section 202).
Note that the exhaust rate is based on the linear
length of the face of the hood and not the area of the
hood opening. The length of the hood is measured
along the front side that is parallel with the front line of
the cooking appliances. Laboratory testing and empirical
data support this methodology, which is consistent
with ASHRAE guidelines. The exhaust rates are not
tied to the hood opening area; therefore, the designer
can take advantage of the improved capture and containment
ability of larger area hoods without having to
increase the required exhaust rate because of the
larger hood area (see Commentary Figure 507.5.1).
507.5.4 Light-duty cooking appliances. The minimum net
airflow for hoods, as determined by Section 507.1, used for
light-duty cooking appliances and food service preparation
shall be determined as follows:
❖ The quantity of exhaust required for Type I and II
hoods serving light-duty cooking appliances must be
in accordance with this section. Some examples of
light-duty cooking appliances are ovens, steamers
and steam kettles (see commentary for the definition
of “Light-duty cooking appliance,” Section 202). A
Type II hood serving a dishwashing appliance must be
in accordance with Section 507.5.5 (see commentary,
Section 507.5.5).
Note that the exhaust rate is based on the linear
length of the face of the hood and not the area of the
hood opening. The length of the hood is measured
along the front side that is parallel with the front line of
the cooking appliances. Laboratory testing and empirical
data support this methodology, which is consistent
with ASHRAE guidelines. The exhaust rates are not
tied to the hood opening area; therefore, the designer
can take advantage of the improved capture and containment
ability of larger area hoods without having to
increase the required exhaust rate because of the
larger hood area (see Commentary Figure 507.5.1).
507.5.5 Dishwashing appliances. The minimum net airflow


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## ADAguy (Mar 3, 2020)

go figure!


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## Codeman4 (Mar 5, 2020)

beach said:


> Are chicken rotisserie ovens, (which are typically listed, self contained oven units) required to have fire suppression, hood and exhaust systems? It appears NFPA 96 requires it......


This question gets asked a lot. I consider it the same as a closed oven. How would you install the suppression system.


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## ADAguy (Mar 5, 2020)

It comes down to capacity, doesn't it?


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## cda (Mar 5, 2020)

ADAguy said:


> It comes down to capacity, doesn't it?




I think four chickens or two turkeys max


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