# Another Horn Strobe Question



## BayPointArchitect (May 26, 2015)

Given:2000 IFC2009 IBC2000 NFPA 722010 ADAStudent Housing / Apartment Building - R2 occupancy - Fully SprinkledQuestion:What are the requirements for horns and strobes within the dwelling units?The attachment shows three different scenarios:A: Efficiency apartment with only one strobe light visible from both the living and sleeping area.B: Efficiency apartment with strobe light visible also visible from within the bathroom and a horn centered between the sleeping and living area.C: A horn located in each and every occupiable room.  A strobe light located in each and every room.After a little research, the variables and answer to this question seems a little nebulous.Thank you,ICC Certified Plan ReviewerNFPA Certified Fire Plan Examiner

View attachment 2150


HornStrobeLocations.pdf

HornStrobeLocations.pdf


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## mark handler (May 26, 2015)

Effective January 1, 2014, section 18.4.5.3 of the 2010 and later editions of NFPA 72 requires the low frequency audible fire alarm signal in occupancy sleeping areas with a protected premises (building) fire alarm system. The Chapter 18 committee chose to apply the requirement to all sleeping areas – not just those where occupants have self-identified as having a hearing impairment. This was done intentionally for several reasons: in many cases, the applications impacted are lodging spaces such as hotels, and many people may not know they have a hearing impairment or they may be alcohol impaired.

The 520 Hz low frequency signal is required in sleeping areas of the following buildings:

Hotels and motels

College and university dormitories

Retirement/assisted-living facilities without trained staff responsible for waking up patients

Dwelling units within apartments and condominiums

According to NFPA 72-2010, section 18.4.5.3*, audible appliances provided for sleeping areas to awaken occupants shall produce a low frequency alarm signal that complies with the following (effective January 1, 2014):

(1) The alarm signal shall be a square wave or provide equivalent awakening ability.

(2) The wave shall have a fundamental frequency of 520 Hz +/- 10 percent


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## mark handler (May 26, 2015)

2010 ADASAD says



> Where fire alarm systems are provided....


But does not require them


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## cda (May 26, 2015)

Minimum one audio in each sleeping room , unless if located somewhere else they can hit the db level required in the bedroom

And agree if under the 2010 nfpa 72 the 520's are required


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## BayPointArchitect (May 26, 2015)

NFPA 72 Section 11.5.1; Smoke alarms are required for sleeping rooms and living areas.NFPA 72 Section 7.5.4.6.1; Where smoke alarms are required, cominination smoke alarms and visible alarms (strobe lights) are required.Aside from the brightness range of 15 cd to less than 1,000 cd; being mounted on the wall between 80 and 96 inches - or in the center of the ceiling; I see nothing that would suggest that a strobe needs to be installed in the bathroom.Thank you everyone.ICC Certified Plan ReviewerNFPA Certified Fire Plan Examiner

View attachment 1187


HornStrobeLocations-2.pdf

HornStrobeLocations-2.pdf


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## ADAguy (May 26, 2015)

Is not the dB's specified too large for the small spaces indicated?


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## cda (May 26, 2015)

BayPointArchitect said:
			
		

> NFPA 72 Section 11.5.1; Smoke alarms are required for sleeping rooms and living areas.NFPA 72 Section 7.5.4.6.1; Where smoke alarms are required, cominination smoke alarms and visible alarms (strobe lights) are required.
> 
> Aside from the brightness range of 15 cd to less than 1,000 cd; being mounted on the wall between 80 and 96 inches - or in the center of the ceiling; I see nothing that would suggest that a strobe needs to be installed in the bathroom.
> 
> ...


sorry read the question a little wrong, but the my answer for the audio requirement I stick by.

The reason I see strobes in an apartment unit is for ADA.

There is also the provision in 2009 ibc::

907.5.2.3.4 Group R-2. In Group R-2 occupancies required by Section 907 to have a fire alarm system, all dwelling units and sleeping units shall be provided with the capability to support visible alarm notification appliances in accordance with ICC A117.1. [F]

some people apply it in many different ways


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## cda (May 26, 2015)

BayPointArchitect said:
			
		

> NFPA 72 Section 11.5.1; Smoke alarms are required for sleeping rooms and living areas.NFPA 72 Section 7.5.4.6.1; Where smoke alarms are required, cominination smoke alarms and visible alarms (strobe lights) are required.
> 
> Aside from the brightness range of 15 cd to less than 1,000 cd; being mounted on the wall between 80 and 96 inches - or in the center of the ceiling; I see nothing that would suggest that a strobe needs to be installed in the bathroom.
> 
> ...


I  would answer your question in the attached file this way

For minimum

one stand alone smoke alarm in the sleeping area.

if there is a door between the sleeping area and rest of the unit a standalone smoke alarm outside the door.

one audio device in the sleeping area, and would guess a 75 db should do.

if under the 2000 NFPA 72 than 520 audio is not required.

don't think you need the high db in the corridor.

907.2.11.2 Groups R-2, R-3, R-4 and I-1. Single- or multiple-station smoke alarms shall be installed and maintained in Groups R-2, R-3, R-4 and I-1 regardless of occupant load at all of the following locations: [F]1. On the ceiling or wall outside of each separate sleeping area in the immediate vicinity of bedrooms.2. In each room used for sleeping purposes.

Exception: Single- or multiple-station smoke alarms in Group I-1 occupanices shall not be required where smoke detectors are provided in the sleeping rooms as part of an automatic smoke detection system.3. In each story within a dwelling unit, including basements but not including crawl spaces and uninhabitable attics. In dwellings or dwelling units with split levels and without an intervening door between the adjacent levels, a smoke alarm installed on the upper level shall suffice for the adjacent lower level provided that the lower level is less than one full story below the upper level


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## BayPointArchitect (May 27, 2015)

ADAguy said:
			
		

> Is not the dB's specified too large for the small spaces indicated?


My original thinking was that if the decibal loss is 24 dB for every door between the horn and the sleeping room, then the horn would need to be 75+24=99 dB for a horn located in the adjacent room and 75+24+24=123 dB for the corridor.

That was my earlier thinking.  But now I am smarter and will expect to see a plethora of 75 dB horns everywhere except the bathroom.

If there is an emergency while a deaf and blind guy is sitting on the pooper... oh well.  That is just too bad.  Hopefully he can smell the smoke and exit the building accordingly.


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## cda (May 27, 2015)

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				BayPointArchitect said:
			
		

> My original thinking was that if the decibal loss is 24 dB for every door between the horn and the sleeping room, then the horn would need to be 75+24=99 dB for a horn located in the adjacent room and 75+24+24=123 dB for the corridor.That was my earlier thinking.  But now I am smarter and will expect to see a plethora of 75 dB horns everywhere except the bathroom.
> 
> If there is an emergency while a deaf and blind guy is sitting on the pooper... oh well.  That is just too bad.  Hopefully he can smell the smoke and exit the building accordingly.


Well the person can request a visual in bedroom and bathroom

Plus 09 inches requires a means to do it


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## ADAguy (May 27, 2015)

Aren't typical interior doors hollow core and therefore capable of letting 75Db's be heard on the other side? These are small rooms too. 95 just seems ear splitting.

What is the typical Db of rock & roll, Rap?


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## cda (May 27, 2015)

There is also the provision in 2009 ibc::

907.5.2.3.4 Group R-2. In Group R-2 occupancies required by Section 907 to have a fire alarm system, all dwelling units and sleeping units shall be provided with the capability to support visible alarm notification appliances in accordance with ICC A117.1. [F]

some people apply it in many different ways


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