# ISA



## ICE (Aug 3, 2017)

A sign with the people icons is $30.00  Add the "all gender restroom" and it jumps to $130.


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## mark handler (Aug 4, 2017)

https://www.google.com/search?q=sig...6LzVAhWpg1QKHdh-D5cQ_AUIDigF&biw=1280&bih=800

You do know the sign  you show is not the required door sign to meet code


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## ICE (Aug 4, 2017)

Well no I didn't know that. It's on the plans.


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## steveray (Aug 4, 2017)

Braille?


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## Pcinspector1 (Aug 4, 2017)

Baby changing station? 

When did the requirement change to be installed on the door instead of the wall?
703.3.7, That door appears to be a pull door not a push door.

I only allow that install when there is no room to place the sign on the wall adjacent to the door.


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## steveray (Aug 4, 2017)

Good eye PC, didn't notice that....


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## ADAguy (Aug 7, 2017)

Notice too that this is not a sign, it is a tactile symbol and is not required to have pictograms.

Pictograms and braille are for wall "signs".


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## conarb (Aug 7, 2017)

I have a problem with those things, about a year ago I walked into the mens' room in a Costco and there was a man changing a baby's diapers, there was a little girl about 2 or 3 years old standing next to him, I walked to the urinals behind them and proceeded to do what men do at urinals, including staring at the blank wall in front of me.  For some reason I looked down and the little girl was standing at my left leg looking up at me with a bemused smile on her face. I had to wonder what she was smiling about, like "Is that all there is?", or "My God, those things are huge."  I don't care what the perverts say, that is not right.


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## steveray (Aug 7, 2017)

ADAguy said:


> Notice too that this is not a sign, it is a tactile symbol and is not required to have pictograms.
> 
> Pictograms and braille are for wall "signs".



If it is a required accessible restroom, it is required to have accessible signage....IBC 1110.1 #6


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## ADAguy (Aug 7, 2017)

Yes, wall signage and symbol on doors to RR's


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## JPohling (Aug 7, 2017)

I do not think the "all gender" language has made it into the 2016 CBC as yet.  Still seems to be "unisex" for a single occupancy room.  
Is there some kind of addendum to the code where we should be replacing "unisex"  with "all gender" signage?


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## ADAguy (Aug 7, 2017)

*SECTION 1.*

 Article 5 (commencing with Section 118600) is added to Chapter 2 of Part 15 of Division 104 of the Health and Safety Code, to read:

*Article  5. Single-User Restrooms*

*118600.*

 (a) *All* single-user toilet facilities [_should say (implies?): existing or new_] in any business establishment, place of public accommodation, or state or local government agency *shall be identified* *as* all-gender toilet facilities *by signage that* complies with Title 24 of the California Code of Regulations, *and designated for use by no more than one occupant at a time or for family or assisted use. (not yet revised, unisex symbol may be used)*

(b) *During any inspection* of a business or a place of public accommodation *by* an inspector, building official, or other local official responsible *for code enforcement*, the inspector or official *may [not “shall/must”?]* inspect for compliance with this section.

(c) For the purposes of this section, *“single-user toilet facility” means* a toilet facility *with no more than* one water closet and [or?] one urinal with a locking mechanism controlled by the user.

*(d) This section shall become operative on March 1, 2017. [*_and what penalty if you fail to comply?_*}*


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## ICE (Aug 7, 2017)

Pcinspector1 said:


> Baby changing station?
> 
> When did the requirement change to be installed on the door instead of the wall?
> 703.3.7, That door appears to be a pull door not a push door.
> ...



Is the sign not allowed on the door?  Must the door swing in?  I'm more of a gasp than a CASp.


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## steveray (Aug 8, 2017)

Typically tactile signage is not supposed/ allowed to put you where you get hit by the door.....


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## mark handler (Aug 8, 2017)

*Door Sign with Geometric Symbol *
*Wall Sign with graphics text and braille*


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## Pcinspector1 (Aug 8, 2017)

ICE, 
Mark's post #15 is what I see, did not see sign near the handle in your posted picture. Also your on the CA code which has a few modifications. I have yet to see the civil defense sign with the all genders here.


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## ADAguy (Aug 8, 2017)

OK Ice, now do you get it?
Thank you MH


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## Fort (Sep 2, 2017)

You don't need the wall sign at all. If you do provide one, then it must comply with tactile sign requirements.

Although it does not need to say all gender, or have the pictograms, the sign in the photo looks fine.


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## conarb (Sep 2, 2017)

Fort said:


> Although it does not need to say all gender, or have the pictograms, the sign in the photo looks fine.



Is the gender stuff in the ADA or where is it mandated?


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## mark handler (Sep 2, 2017)

Fort,
You are wrong regarding California.  The wall sign is required, everywhere in CA. 11b-216.8
The all gender thing came about by our "elected officials in Sacramento" AB 1732
CA Health and Safety code 118600
Effective March 1, 2017, under a new law known the Equal Restroom Act. It cameabout after the code was codified but Iis still a law that is enforceable and required to be enforced.


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## conarb (Sep 2, 2017)

mark handler said:


> Effective March 1, 2017, under a new law known the Equal Restroom Act. It cameabout after the code was codified but Iis still a law that is enforceable and required to be enforced.



Canada has such laws, they also have a psychology professor who is standing up to and refusing to enforce such tyrannical laws. *He's a public employee at the University of Toronto*, he has the guts to stand up to this insanity, and so should building inspectors.


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## tmurray (Sep 6, 2017)

conarb said:


> Canada has such laws, they also have a psychology professor who is standing up to and refusing to enforce such tyrannical laws. *He's a public employee at the University of Toronto*, he has the guts to stand up to this insanity, and so should building inspectors.



It's not my job to stand against any code that is enacted by a elected official. It is my job to enforce it. It is society's job to ensure their elected officials remove or amend unjust codes. We had a technical representative that would speak with our elected officials to simplify and streamline laws to help people understand and comply. Do you want to know what they say to us? "Other than this makes perfect sense to change the law in this way, why would I do this?" The elected official was indicating that since they were not going to get votes out of proposing the change, why would they bother?

You keep looking at us, but we can do no more than you.


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## conarb (Sep 6, 2017)

tmurray said:


> It's not my job to stand against any code that is enacted by a elected official. It is my job to enforce it. It is society's job to ensure their elected officials remove or amend unjust codes. We had a technical representative that would speak with our elected officials to simplify and streamline laws to help people understand and comply. Do you want to know what they say to us? "Other than this makes perfect sense to change the law in this way, why would I do this?" The elected official was indicating that since they were not going to get votes out of proposing the change, why would they bother?
> 
> You keep looking at us, but we can do no more than you.


T Murray:

As has come up before our system is different from yours, at least until we can force the International Codes on you.  The only ones who can vote on codes are public officials, those of us on the private side have no say, there is an article in the paper today about Sacramento attempting to do something about the high cost of housing. 



			
				East Bay Times said:
			
		

> Negotiations have been under way for more than a month between legislative leaders and the governor, who in the past have clashed over the issue. Brown has pushed lawmakers to cut red tape to make construction cheaper, while Chiu and others have said that the state must invest in building subsidized, as well as market-rate, housing.
> 
> Sen. Scott Wiener, D-San Francisco, said the housing crisis is not just a Bay Area problem and that he is worried it will only get worse if the state doesn’t act.
> 
> “This is a contagion that is moving around the state — that’s spreading like wildfire,” he said.¹





¹ http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/09...g-crisis-can-sacramento-get-it-under-control/


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## tmurray (Sep 6, 2017)

conarb said:


> T Murray:
> 
> As has come up before our system is different from yours, at least until we can force the International Codes on you.  The only ones who can vote on codes are public officials, those of us on the private side have no say, there is an article in the paper today about Sacramento attempting to do something about the high cost of housing.



Yes, but my understanding is that they are a model code, intended to be amended by the local jurisdiction that is doing the adoption. The ICC does not create laws. The people who adopt their codes do. They are the ones to target. The general public must have input into laws as they are created and changed. We do this through representative democracy. If your elected officiate is making decisions contrary to yours, tell them about it. They are the only ones with the power to change it.


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## steveray (Sep 6, 2017)

tmurray said:


> Yes, but my understanding is that they are a model code, intended to be amended by the local jurisdiction that is doing the adoption. The ICC does not create laws. The people who adopt their codes do. They are the ones to target. The general public must have input into laws as they are created and changed. We do this trough representative democracy. If your elected officiate is making decisions contrary to yours, tell them about it. They are the only ones with the power to change it.




Which is how and why the vast majority of States have nixed residential sprinklers....


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