# NY CITY : foundation depth and width for backyard concrete block wall



## NEWSROOM (May 12, 2020)

Hi. I am a newbie.
I leave in Queens county in NY city. I want to DIY project. I want to build 6' tall concrete block [8''x8''x16' size each bock] wall at the property line in the back yard. I want to know how much do I have to make deep and wide concrete foundation/footing for this wall? [ According to code as per 1 RCNY §101-14, for one- and two-family dwellings, the Department does not require permits for fences 6 feet or less in height and homeowners may install their own fencing. Residential and commercial fences for privacy are typically made of wood, plastic, brick, or chain link]
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE.


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## cda (May 12, 2020)

Welcome

What is there now?


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## Msradell (May 12, 2020)

1st of all I'm very surprised that it require a permit for a masonry wall, I thought you work, especially NYC quantity permit for just about anything. However, you checked into it in a permit is required so here's what I think about your question.

The footing should go below the frost line, I'm not sure what it is in your area I'm guessing around 24"or so. I would make the footing 2'0" wide by 1'0" thick with 3 #4 Bars tenuous and crossbars and Dwls Every 24". I would then put extensions on the Dwls to go to the top of the wall (filling these cells with grout) and then put a bond beam across the top (with 2 #4 Bars and it). It would be a little more work but certainly would go anyplace and would hold up for a long time.


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## ICE (May 12, 2020)

Msradell,

I deleted one of the duplicates...make that two.

Were it mine...in my California expansive soil my fence footing would be 24" deep and 12" wide....unless an engineer told me to make it 24" deep....in that case it would be 30".....with #5 bar.

I'm not sure what people do for fences where the ground freezes. That sounds awful, "where the ground freezes" .....and they live there. If Columbus had landed at San Diego the east coast would still be wilderness. It would have an Indian name that translates, "mosquitoes too". And Queens County....you know that place was named long ago.


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## Keystone (May 13, 2020)

I would be stunned if a block fence having a height of 6’ did not require a permit let alone an engineer.  Queens NY being surrounded by bodies of water, a bay on one side and an ocean on the other and a elevation above sea of 130’ or so at its highest point!

Do yourself a favor and locate documentation from the county or the building inspection department in writing that your project does not require a permit & post it.


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## ADAguy (May 14, 2020)

Exposure to wind?


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## No Soup for you (May 14, 2020)

footing should be at 42" depth and I would think you would need a permit in NYC.


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## No Soup for you (May 14, 2020)

Oh ,,,,,and a 6' block wall is not a "fence"


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## ADAguy (May 15, 2020)

Define what you consider it to be then?


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## No Soup for you (May 15, 2020)

Seriously???  It is a 6' tall block wall...... NOT a fence  

"wikipedia" A fence differs from a wall in not having a solid foundation along its whole length

What would you consider it to be?


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## jar546 (May 15, 2020)

Did you ever see a fence built on top of a wall?


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## No Soup for you (May 15, 2020)

jar546 said:


> Did you ever see a fence built on top of a wall?



That has nothing to do with the original posters question or the discussion.

But to answer your question ..... yes of course. Maybe you call that a "Wallence"?


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## ADAguy (May 18, 2020)

A fence by "legal" definition is a boundary defining structure/wall (element?) constructed to comply with local ordinances governing: material, height and placement limits. Typically fences exceeding 6' in height require a permit. Consider soil type, wind load, water table and frost depth, local animals, neighbor preference, etc. Within a properties boundary it may have different names but if free standing and taller that 6' it will most likely require a footing and calcs.


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