# AIA Resolution



## conarb (Apr 16, 2015)

There has been lots of speculation and conspiracy theories as to the collapse of the World Trade Centers, the NIST report appears to be a whitewash claiming that it was the fires that destroyed the buildings, the AIA has passed a resolution to investigate it.



			
				\ said:
			
		

> WHEREAS, on September 11, 2001, 7 World Trade Center, a 47-story high-rise building, suffered a complete collapse; andWHEREAS, on November 20, 2008, the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) released the final report of its three-year investigation into the complete collapse of 7 World Trade Center, which concluded that fires, an unprecedented cause of failure for a modern high-rise building, were the primary cause of failure; and
> 
> WHEREAS, the cause of failure identified by the NIST investigation would mean that hundreds of high-rise buildings in the United States are susceptible to similar failure from fire; and
> 
> WHEREAS, thousands of members of the architecture and engineering professions, including the 55 sponsors of this resolution, believe the NIST investigation did not adhere to the principles of the scientific method and, as a result, the conclusions of the NIST investigation are fatally flawed. ¹


If NIST is right something is drastically wrong, fire should not bring down steel buildings, I'm glad to see this for a variety of reasons.

¹ http://www.aia.org/aiaucmp/groups/aia/documents/pdf/aiab105885.pdf


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## mtlogcabin (Apr 16, 2015)

> fire should not bring down steel buildings,


Why not? When the steel cannot dissipate the heat that was produced by the fire that was ongoing for about an hour. The steel will start to deform the structural strength of the steel it will no longer be able to support the weight it was designed to carry.

I read something about the installation of the spray on fire protection changed during construction of the building and the newer installation did not perform as intended during the actual fire.. If the spray on fire protection or even gypsum board was compromised by the impact of the plane then the heat would get to the steel and the steel protected by a spray on or gypsum wrap would not be able to dissipate the heat generated by the fuel loading in the fire and structural failure of a couple of componets would be a fact that other supporting members could not carry.

It is always good to have multiple professionals unbiased or non-agenda driven reviews and re-review disasters as we are constantly learning and that knowledge needs to be applied to past events. It is a way to get past theories and get to the facts.


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## cda (Apr 16, 2015)

Steel loses strength when heated sufficiently. The critical temperature of a steel member is the temperature at which it cannot safely support its load. Building codes and structural engineering standard practice defines different critical temperatures depending on the structural element type, configuration, orientation, and loading characteristics. The critical temperature is often considered the temperature at which its yield stress has been reduced to 60% of the room temperature yield stress.[17] In order to determine the fire resistance rating of a steel member, accepted calculations practice can be used,[18] or a fire test can be performed, the critical temperature of which is set by the standard accepted to the Authority Having Jurisdiction, such as a building code. In Japan, this is below 400 °C[citation needed]. In China, Europe and North America (e.g., ASTM E-119), this is approximately 1000–1300 °F[19] (530-810 °C). The time it takes for the steel element that is being tested to reach the temperature set by the test standard determines the duration of the fire-resistance rating. Heat transfer to the steel can be slowed by the use of fireproofing materials, thus limiting steel temperature


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## cda (Apr 16, 2015)

What came first the chicken or the egg?


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## conarb (Apr 16, 2015)

At the very least, if NIST is correct, fireproofing was inadequate.  As I understand the reasoning the fuel from the tanks in the airplanes caused the unanticipated heat, but I've see reports claiming that the fuel present couldn't have caused the massive implosion, and of course claiming that buildings don't implode that way anyway.  A subsequent issue that plays into this is that the fireproofing foams that were used have now been made illegal for health reasons, so if steel protection is going to be reformulated it might as well be done right.  With the government anticipating civil insurrection (supplying cities with armored vehicles etc.) it seems logical to plan for such events in the future.


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## ICE (Apr 16, 2015)

When those planes tore through the buildings, they took out a lot more than just the fireproofing on the steel.  They took out significant portions of the steel.  Then was added all of the fuel on-board the aircraft as well as the few hundred thousand pounds of aluminum and titanium.  Granted a bunch of it came out the other side as a result of momentum but put it all together and it should be no surprise that the buildings failed when an entire floor gave way and the upper part collapsed onto the lower part.

This can't be extrapolated to the rest of the highrise buildings in the country as to just a fire.  Add a airliner and I see the possibility.


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## steveray (Apr 16, 2015)

For the record....7 World Trade Center was not one of the buildings struck by the alleged planes...http://rememberbuilding7.org/7-facts-about-building-7/


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## conarb (Apr 16, 2015)

steveray said:
			
		

> For the record....7 World Trade Center was not one of the buildings struck by the alleged planes...http://rememberbuilding7.org/7-facts-about-building-7/


Thanks for clarifying that Steve, there is a lot of explaining to do, hopefully the AIA will get to the root of it.


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## cda (Apr 16, 2015)

What came first the chicken or the egg?

And what are they going to use to do the research?

Review reports already in place? Do some actual fire tests?

So what is the alternative theory? Planes never hit the buildings?


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## conarb (Apr 16, 2015)

CDA:

There are lots of conspiracy theories that need to be put to bed, since the World Trade Center had been bombed with explosives in 1993 the most logical is that explosives were placed at the bases of columns and triggered by the plane.



			
				\ said:
			
		

> According to the journalist Steve Coll, Yousef mailed letters to various New York newspapers just before the attack, in which he claimed he belonged to 'Liberation Army, Fifth Battalion'. These letters made three demands: an end to all US aid to Israel, an end to US diplomatic relations with Israel, and a pledge by the United States to end interference "with any of the Middle East countries' interior affairs." He stated that the attack on the World Trade Center would be merely the first of such attacks if his demands were not met. In his letters Yousef admitted that the World Trade Center bombing was an act of terrorism, but this was justified because "the terrorism that Israel practices (which America supports) must be faced with a similar one."¹


¹ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombing


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## cda (Apr 16, 2015)

And architects are going to lead us to the promised land


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## conarb (Apr 16, 2015)

cda said:
			
		

> And architects are going to lead us to the promised land


CDA:

It surprised my as well, all I have been hearing from the AIA is ADA, ADA, ADA, I thought the AIA push for ADA was make-work agenda for un/under-employed architects, I suspect that they may want to defend the reputation of their profession with all the conspiracy theories running rampant, the AIA is a trade organization not Mother Teressa.


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## MASSDRIVER (Apr 16, 2015)

Get your tinfoil hats here!

Tinfoil hats!

Brent.


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## north star (Apr 17, 2015)

*= $ = $ =*

In reality, the chicken came first !   :grin:

*= $ = $ =*


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## north star (Apr 17, 2015)

*= & = & =*



Switching gears, ...somewhat, but a quick show of hands,

...How many people actually believe that the collapse of the

World Trade Towers and the associated events of that

day was an "inside job" by our own gub`mint ?

*= & = & =*


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## conarb (Apr 19, 2015)

North Star:

Since I started this thread I'll take you up on your challenge, I am finding myself agreeing with Noam Chomsky more and more these days, in the past I associated his anarchy with such social activists as Saul Alinsky, but as we've descended into fascism through regulation in this country, telling people how much energy they can use, how much water they can use, telling us that we have no more first amendment right of association and have to associate with minorities, the disabled etc., I am starting to agree with Chomsky's views. Here is his position:



			
				\ said:
			
		

> Speaking at the University of Florida a few weeks ago, Chomsky – a well-known and often outspoken scholar and political commentator – was asked by “9/11 truther” Bob Tuskin if he was ready to join activists in their belief that the government played a hand in the destruction of WTC 7, also known as Building 7, and that its role was covered up by the media.Tuskin pointed to a group of construction experts who claim Building 7 was destroyed by a controlled demolition, but Chomsky dismissed the assertion. He acknowledged that “a minuscule number of architects and engineers” agree on this issue, but said they’re not doing what scientists should do after making a new discovery.
> 
> “What you do when you think you’ve discovered something is write articles in scientific journals, give talks at the professional societies, go to the civil engineering department at MIT or Florida or wherever you are, and present your results, then proceed to try to convince the national academies, the professional society of physicists and civil engineers, the departments of the major universities, convince them that you’ve discovered something,” he said, according to Raw Story.¹


I used to wonder why MIT kept him on it's faculty as an emeritus professor, now I think MIT has taken the right course.  Since many engineers have said the building shouldn't have collapsed like that the AIA is taking the right course in investigating it.

¹ http://rt.com/usa/noam-chomsky-911-truthers-342/


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## MASSDRIVER (Apr 19, 2015)

Never account to a conspiracy what can easily be explained by incompetence.

Bill Clinton couldn't keep a blowjob secret. The complexity and secrecy required for some kind of  black op of multiple planes crashing into skyscrapers, the pentagon, and random fields simply could not exist.

Brent.


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## conarb (Apr 19, 2015)

\ said:
			
		

> Never account to a conspiracy what can easily be explained by incompetence.


If the design professional were incompetent the AIA has good cause to know why.  In fact if they are proven to be incompetent there would be good cause for both criminal and civil liability on the part of some who could even be their members.  There is no statute of limitations on involuntary manslaughter, or whatever they call it in New York.


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## north star (Apr 19, 2015)

*& ~ ~ &*





Brent,

Do not sell short the determination of evil people, and

level of greed amassed and present in the world today.

North Korea. ...Russia, ...Iran, ...Libya, ...Yemen, ...Syria,

...China and others are not the only evil nations present.

The U.S. of A has a very strong presence in designing

& carrying out a "laundry list" of atrocities too, ...Black

Ops and otherwise.

Regarding the World Trade Towers and other events,

...IMO, there are just too many inconsistencies to ignore.

Those two buildings should not have collapsed, ...at least

not in the time frame in which they did......[  FWIW, ...and

Lee Harvey Oswald was the "lone gunman" too !........Yeah,

right !      ].

P.S., ...Thanks ***conarb*** for your input !

*& ~ ~ &*


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## JPohling (Apr 20, 2015)

I do not understand the thinking that these buildings should not have collapsed?  I was convinced they would collapse once I saw the impacts.  It was just a matter of time.  It was a well designed attack.  The spray on fireproofing was no match for that fire after the physical damage that was inflicted on the members.  The structural steel that was supporting the top third of the building was compromised by the heat and turned into silly putty.  Top third of building collapses and pancakes every floor below it that cannot support the mass.  It was a terrible day.


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## steveray (Apr 20, 2015)

Maybe this will work....There was another building and a street between WTC7 and the buildings that were struck...

http://www.arneault.com/travelpix/2001_wtc/wtc-aol/WorldTradeCenterSitePlan.jpg

This makes it even clearer.....

http://p1.storage.canalblog.com/18/33/59050/11994963.jpg


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## mjesse (Apr 20, 2015)

I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, but seriously?

If 7 WTC was rigged with explosives, when do you suggest "they" went in and did all the prep? For planned demolition, companies spend weeks inside rigging, wiring, and doing light demo to make sure it all goes as planned. You think someone might have noticed this was going on?

Or, are you suggesting elite demolition teams swooped into play immediately after the evacuation to load up? How many pounds of explosive do you suppose they carried in to level the building?

I just don't see it.


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## steveray (Apr 20, 2015)

MJ....What Conarb is getting at is: (I believe) in a noncombustible, protected structure, there should almost never be a catastrophic/collapse failure, which is why they get some of the leeway in the codes. WTC 7 was not hit by a plane, it may have been hit by debris, but it did collapse, and if a semi normal fire condition caused it, we need to look closer at our codes to see if something needs to change and if we give noncombustible building too much credit.

I have No theory, just a lack of answers.....The building in between 1 and 7 (6WTC) was a partial collapse being closer and probably hit by more building debris on collapse, And 7 waited until 5PM to totally collapse. It is weird and I can certainly see how construction minded people would look for more information


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## MASSDRIVER (Apr 20, 2015)

If they want to look closer to see _how_ the materials failed to gain a more comprehensive data set, I'm onboard.

To think there were elite teams performing demolition operations while nobody noticed?

No.

Brent.


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## mtlogcabin (Apr 20, 2015)

http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm


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## mjesse (Apr 20, 2015)

MASSDRIVER said:
			
		

> To think there were elite teams performing demolition operations while nobody noticed? Brent.


And in case any elite secret agencies are reading these posts...

If you're currently hiring for double-secret stealth demolition associates, I may know a guy


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## steveray (Apr 20, 2015)

mjesse said:
			
		

> And in case any elite secret agencies are reading these posts...If you're currently hiring for double-secret stealth demolition associates, I may know a guy


I was thinking Brent but didn't want to imply anything unsavory......I believe everyone made it out of that building.....


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## MASSDRIVER (Apr 20, 2015)

Shhhhhh....shhhh...shh.

Loose lips sink ships.

Brent


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## conarb (Apr 20, 2015)

mjesse said:
			
		

> And in case any elite secret agencies are reading these posts...If you're currently hiring for double-secret stealth demolition associates, I may know a guy


After the Snowden release, and the intercepted Victoria Nuland telephone call it appears to me that our buildings are more at risk from civil insurrection and attack from others in nations that our empire is trying to conquer, we are the most hatred empire the world has ever seen as we try to impose our religion (civil rights within, human rights outside) on the entire world, other nations and religions will and are fighting to the death to stop us.  With the huge amounts of money we are spending to make our buildings earthquake/hurricane resistant it seems to me that it's more important to build our buildings resistant to attack from within and without. This is not only me but my customers who are more concerned about burglarproof structures, security gates, and other security concerns than they are the earthquake, green, and energy concerns of the codes being mandated.

  As an example, a computer tech engineer surprised me by refusing any smart-house features, he called a friend in Seattle and made a bet with him as to how long it would take him to hack his thermostat, with no information other than the address within 20 minutes he could move the temperature to anything we requested, we stood at the wall and watched him move the temperature to any setting we asked for over the phone, this guy did not want any locks that could be hacked in his home, he has no router, smart meters are now being hacked routinely, the marijuana growers are the biggest customers of the hackers since they consume tremendous amounts of water and electricity and for a few hundred a month a hacker can control the recorded consumption to show reasonable usage for the location.

The AIA is right to look into and analyze this so we can build to withstand greater threats than we are now building for, just like the military is now outfitting local police with armored vehicles and other military gear; after all, we now have an international code that we expect the rest of the world to adopt, even if there are no more attacks on our homeland there are certainly going to be attacks in other nations. BTW, I do read The Russian Times, China Daily, and Aljazeera on a daily basis.


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## ICE (Apr 20, 2015)

> we are the most hatred empire the world has ever seen


It's envy not hatred.  The rest of the world wants to be us.  Even the middle east.  That will taper off once we are Mexico.


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## MASSDRIVER (Apr 20, 2015)

We could clad all tall buildings in heat treated 1/4" steel cladding. That way all new energy codes cAn be met, and we can minimize bird strikes.

Who's on the code board that we know?

Brent.


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## conarb (Apr 20, 2015)

ICE said:
			
		

> It's envy not hatred.  The rest of the world wants to be us.  Even the middle east.  That will taper off once we are Mexico.


No, it used to be envy and is still in places like Mexico, but in much of the world it's hatred, at the Sochi Olympics Russia agreed to the disability activists' demands and held a Special Olympics, then at the last minute Obama demanded that they accept Gays, China has jailed some feminists and Hillary has demanded that they release them, Obama just demanded that South Americans adopt our Human Rights demands, no matter what anyone thinks of these issues we have no right to demand what others do on their soil.   We are stil occupying Germany and Japan 70 years after the end of WWII, I have a cousin who lives in Germany but has to drive in the United States, he says our rules are absurd, he drove the Autobahn from his home to Budapest averaging 200kph (120 MPH), the slow cars voluntarily keep to the left of the faster cars, here the slow cars think they have every right to the road as the better cars, it's our egalitarianism that we are trying to force onto the rest of the world.  I have a friend who came here from Chile, he was a partner in an airplane with me, he made a small fortune here but has left and lives in Russia now, he said that they are coming out of Socialism and could be a free country while we are plunging into Socialism losing all of our freedoms, there is no more opportunity here anymore like when he came.

What is our military doing all over the world?  Trying to enforce our agenda on the world, if the Muslims want to cut off their people's heads that's their business, not ours.  Why did the people flying the planes want to hurt us on 9/11, they hate us for trying to force our social justice religion on them, if they want to cover their women's heads with burkas that is none of our business.  As long as we keep killing people all over the world to force social justice on them they are going to fight back.  Things like drugs, alcohol, women's rights, and  homosexuality are forbidden by some religions, we are trying to force evil on them as they see it.

My point is that if we are going to keep trying to conquer countries and force our agenda on them be prepared for them to fight back any way they can, we are shooting the lower classes in the streets while we are telling the upper classes how much water and energy they can use, we have come closer to conquering the world than any empire in history, we have Russia and China surrounded by nuclear missiles,  we have tanks running around the Russian Border in Lithuania right now, we are telling China that they can't build sand islands in the South China Sea to extend their domain, while Obama has just designated a huge swath of the Pacific Ocean as a National Monument, extending our domain ever closer to them and it's nothing but water, but they can't fish or drill for oil there now that we've claimed it.

We have written Agenda 21 into the United Nations, this will be implemented by what George H.W. Bush called our New World Order, and I bet Bush isn't smart enough to have even read H.G. Wells new World Order.





 wherein he declares American exceptionalism setting us off on a course to conquer the world through our vassal the United Nations.


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## cda (Dec 23, 2017)

An earlier attack on the US and damage to Statue of Liberty


Many years later, the explosion was traced to Michael Kristoff, a Slovak immigrant.[18] Kristoff had served in the US Army in World War I, but admitted to working for German agents (transporting suitcases) in 1915 and 1916 while the US was still neutral. According to Kristoff, two of the guards at Black Tom were German agents. It is likely that the bombing involved some of the techniques developed by German agents working for German ambassador Count Johann Heinrich von Bernstorff and German Naval Intelligence officer Franz von Rintelen, using the cigar bombs developed by Doctor Walter Scheele.[19] Suspicion at the time fell solely on German saboteurs such as Kurt Jahnke and his assistant Lothar Witzke, who are still judged as legally responsible.[20][21]Later investigations in the aftermath of the Annie Larsen affair unearthed links between the Ghadar conspiracy and the Black Tom explosion.[citation needed]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Tom_explosion


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## cda (Dec 23, 2017)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/german-spies-blew-state-liberty-1916-article-1.2687925


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## conarb (Dec 23, 2017)

*3,000 Architects and engineers have signed the petition so far*, some pretty prominent names in there,


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