# Builders Driving Me Insane 2009 Windbracing



## Mule (Jan 11, 2011)

I'm pulling my hair out getting the DP's here in Texas to understand what needs to be submitted.

Just got off the phone with a DP, you guys are going to love this!

DP: Since the prevailing wind is from the South, all I have to worry about is one wall!

ME: Ummm...no! You need windbracing on all exterior walls. And the back wall of the structure....where are you installing the windbracing so that you don't exceed 25 feet without any windbracing and you have a wall of windows that spans around 40 feet without any form of windbracing.

DP: 25 feet???? Where did that come from?

ME: It's been in the code for several years now!

DP: Well I was under the impression that if the structure was continually sheathed that there wouldn't be any problems.

ME: Normally not, however you have a problem with the wall of windows in the back AND you have not submitted a set of plans showing compliance.

DP: (silence for several seconds)

ME: How about you come down here tomorrow and I'll give you an idea on what to submit.

DP: Okay.......

By the way...DP's are not required to have any kind of license in Texas if they are doing residential.


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## jar546 (Jan 11, 2011)

I just email them this then tell them to read the code book or they can pay me $150 per hour to teach them 1 on 1:

http://inspectpa.com/download/2009WallBracing.pdf


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## rktect 1 (Jan 11, 2011)

Mule,

I think they refer to people like you as "enablers".

End the insanity.  If they don't know how it is or what is the basic min., tell them they need either another building designer or an architect/engineer to help him out.


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## Mule (Jan 11, 2011)

Jeff,

I actually have that saved to my computer. I myself learned a lot from that document.

rktect 1,

Sometimes you have to show people just how smart they aren't!


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## peach (Jan 11, 2011)

sometimes it's a short drive, Mule..


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## GHRoberts (Jan 12, 2011)

"You need windbracing on all exterior walls. And the back wall of the structure....where are you installing the windbracing so that you don't exceed 25 feet without any windbracing and you have a wall of windows that spans around 40 feet without any form of windbracing."

One problem with AHJs is that they confuse the prescriptions in the code with code requirements.

The code requires a certain robustness against a 90mph wind.

The prescriptions are ways to accomplish that. But most engineers can produce code compliant designs with windows that span 40' without the prescriptive windbracing.

---

That checklist that jar546 posted should have a second option - hire an engineer.


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## pwood (Jan 12, 2011)

i have to agree with the mysterious stranger george on this one:mrgreen:.


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## Jobsaver (Jan 12, 2011)

GHRoberts said:
			
		

> One problem with AHJs is that they confuse the prescriptions in the code with code requirements. That checklist that jar546 posted should have a second option - hire an engineer.





			
				pwood said:
			
		

> i have to agree with the mysterious stranger george on this one:mrgreen:.


I'm no engineer, but if A=B, and B=C, then A=C.

Engineers' opinions should have a second option - you may not need an engineer, check with your ahj to determine if there is a prescriptive solution.


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## jar546 (Jan 12, 2011)

Hiring an engineer is ALWAYS an option


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## rktect 1 (Jan 12, 2011)

So is best-guessing it until the AHJ accepts it or corrects/designs it.


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## Mule (Jan 12, 2011)

Meet with the DP, building superintendent and the builder this AM. They realize the problem now and will correct the problem. The only way to fix the back wall with the 40 foot bank of windows will be with an engineer. The builder looked at his DP and told him...looks like you need to address this problem at design to head off any problems.


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## Daddy-0- (Jan 12, 2011)

That's a lot of windows Mule. Must have a good view.


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## peach (Jan 12, 2011)

90 mph is pretty much the minimum you need to design to.  Lots of window suck, but the DESIGNER should be able to overcome that with proper placement of the braced walls. . which can be interior or exterior.  Interior braced walls break up the exterior wall requirements.


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## Mule (Jan 13, 2011)

The very unfortunate part is this all happened while I was off work.  I had some surgery on my foot and was out for two weeks. The staff issued a permit without requiring any plans on the windbracing. NOTE: We just adopted the 2009 at the end of the year and this was the first set of house plans we received.

The foundation was poured and the walls were being framed. So there are several problems we are going to have to work through. No beams under any perpendicular walls close to where they need them. Within that bank of windows are two sets of bay windows. One set in a bedroom and one set in the living room. The only thing separating these two sets is the wall between the bedroom and living room...a total wall space of around 12". In the living room adjacent to the bay windows are another bank of windows, 3070's then a door leading outside. Over the living room is a 2nd story.

Yes we are in the 90mph zone and Catagory B area.

Houston...we have a problem!


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## Architect1281 (Jan 13, 2011)

Oh Mule welcome to my world

In RI we adopted IRC 2000 in 2002

It was the first time 100 percent of our builders and inspectors heard of hurricane force winds.

pre 2002 the wind speed was listed as 90MPH statewide

despite the 18 year occurence rate and the 5 year darn near hurricane Nor Easter - Had 90 MPH sustained near shore three weeks ago

the NOAA maps have us at 100 , 110 and 120 north to south so SUPRISE SUPRISE

In Spite of annual education one and trwo day free seminars in 2002 , 2003, ... 2009 to some its still new.

DP's registration here is the same. Lemur Design group is still permitted to prepare single family Prescriptive plans.

If only they could read the code.

Try t


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## Mule (Jan 14, 2011)

The DP for this builder does not even have a code book!


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## rktect 1 (Jan 14, 2011)

Mule said:
			
		

> The DP for this builder does not even have a code book!


Which is why you need to cite specific code sections with vague descriptions with what needs to be corrected and let them know to purchase a copy or head to a local library.


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## GHRoberts (Jan 14, 2011)

Mule said:
			
		

> The staff issued a permit without requiring any plans on the windbracing.


As I understand the facts:

This is custom home with a buyer in hand.

The house would have been code compliant if the permit was applied for a few days earlier.

The problems were caused by a mistake at the AHJ's office.

---

Get everyone to agree to build under the prior code.


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## Jobsaver (Jan 14, 2011)

Mule said:
			
		

> It's been in the code for several years now!





			
				Mule said:
			
		

> NOTE: We just adopted the 2009 at the end of the year and this was the first set of house plans we received.





			
				GHRoberts said:
			
		

> As I understand the facts:This is custom home with a buyer in hand.
> 
> The house would have been code compliant if the permit was applied for a few days earlier.
> 
> ...


I agree with GH, but am unclear on the valididy of his second claim. Also, I am assuming a difficult, expensive fix at this point.

Man, thru plan review to half-framed in two weeks on a custom. They don't mess around in Mule's ahj.


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## Big Willie (Jan 14, 2011)

rktect1 stated:



> Which is why you need to cite specific code sections with vague descriptions withwhat needs to be corrected and let them know to purchase a copy or head to a local library.


A high per centage of the time, this is not possible.    Because of the "political influences" involved, a lot of code officials cannot say anything, but "Thank you!   May I please have another!"   Unfortunately, to remain employed, the code officials have to remain silent and continue being a scratched record repeating the same discrepancies, ..time after time after time after time.Why do think that the DP's & contractors do not have code books in the first place?  Because they don't have to!   We code officials are fighting a continuously uphill battle.   Most AHJ's adopt the various codes with no; or very little, intention to enforce them.  It's politically appealing!


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## Mule (Jan 14, 2011)

GHRoberts said:
			
		

> As I understand the facts:This is custom home with a buyer in hand.
> 
> The house would have been code compliant if the permit was applied for a few days earlier.
> 
> ...


You are correct on some of your assumptions.

The house would have been code compliant if the permit was applied for a few days earlier.

No, not really, the back wall with the bank of windows did not have any room for the required windbracing every 25 feet.

The problems were caused by a mistake at the AHJ's office.

Yes and no. Yes we did screw up.

NO we should not have issued the permit. We DID notify every builder about the code changes several months prior to the adoption of the codes and when these changes were going into affect. We handed out a packet with most of the major changes that effected new construction. We issued the permit on 12/15/2010

This was handed to them in June 2010

I think we did everything we could to make them aware of the changes.

*Notice to All Contractors*

The Inspection Department recently adopted the 2009 International Building Codes and the 2008 National Electrical Code. These codes will go into affect on December 2nd, 2010.

Attached are some of the major changes to the codes.

If you need any help with any interpretations with the codes please contact.......


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## brudgers (Jan 14, 2011)

Mule said:
			
		

> By the way...DP's are not required to have any kind of license in Texas if they are doing residential.


Without a license, they're not a design professional.


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## Mule (Jan 14, 2011)

Is this your opinion or a law somewhere on the books? There isn't a law in Texas that requires a person to be licensed to design SFR.


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## dhengr (Jan 17, 2011)

Mule:

I agree with Brudgers, if they aren’t licenced by the state, they aren’t professionals, that’s just MHO, biased though it may be.  The term professional has been thrown around so loosely that it no longer has its old, original meaning.  We’ve all heard of grade inflation at schools, grade school through vo-tech and college; so we must now have title inflation too.  The persons you are loosely talking about as “DP’s” are drafters, design persons, they are not Architects by any stretch of the imagination; there are some technicians and drafters who can do a little engineering with the proper guidance, that does not make them Engineers and certainly not Professional Engineers.  I believe that most states talk in terms of most SFR’s not requiring an Architect’s or an Engineer’s involvement in their design, as long as they are designed and built to the code.  Providing drafting services is quite a different thing than providing Professional Architectural or Engineering services.  And, because these persons can run a CAD program which comes with a bunch of pre-packaged, generally acceptable, construction details, doesn’t even make them designers.  They’re just plan drawers, some of them are just computer jockeys who couldn’t do it from actual experience or without the computer.

And, by the way, I’ve dealt with some Architects (AIA) and Engineers (PE’s) over the years who I wouldn’t want working in my office, for their lack of real qualifications and thinking abilities.  And, I have had some draftsmen and technicians working for me, over the years, who’s engineering judgement I trusted much more than some other engineer’s judgement or output which I have had to deal with.


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## Neville (Jan 19, 2011)

Yes , i know it has become very hard to construct a house now a days as the construction workers have their own demands and similarly the contractor has also some financial problems so on and so forth.But it is worth giving a try man to build your home..................


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## Mule (Jan 26, 2011)

Okay, the engineer has finally submitted the plans for the windbracing. Now a question for my professional designer friends and fellow BO/inspectors.

Now remember... this is 2009 windbracing.....house started without submittal under the 2009 codes for windbracing.

IF an engineer has designed a structure and the design does not meet the minimum code requirements is that okay? For instance, the 2009 IRC specifys that when a wall is greater in length than 60 feet then you have to provide interior shear walls to "break" up the length of the wall. These walls must have a beam under them and must have anchor bolts the same as exterior walls.

The engineered design shows interior GB walls..no beam under them and add 3/8" X 3" Hilti anchors to secure them to the floor as a shear wall. Code requires at lease 7" into concrete These would only be 1 1/2" into concrete.

Also the portal framing is not per the 2009 IRC. Calling for 8D nails around the king studs, 2 1000 lb straps and only two 3 1/2" Hilti anchors to secure the portal walls to the foundation.

This design does not even come close to the requirements of the 2009 IRC BUT it is an engineered design.

Would you guys accept it? I'm having a hard time accepting it even though it is sealed by an engineer. Just because an engineer seals a design does that make it correct? I know it puts the liability on the engineer but are we locked in to accept the design when it is not to the minimum codes?

Having a hard time here!!!!!


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## Min&Max (Jan 26, 2011)

Can you prove the engineers design is defective? If not, call it a day and move on.


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## Architect1281 (Jan 26, 2011)

No Mule I would not accept the suspect design.

Engineers and even Architects have Stamps,

so does the post office

dosen't make them right.

small though it may be in structure in RI at least the building official can and we do request an independent or peer review calculation.

sometimes I'm embarrased,

but most often its the engineer.

and better yet the owner gets to pay for it.

§ 23-27.3-128.6 Special technical services.

(a) When applications for unusual designs or magnitude of construction are filed, the building official may refer the plans and specifications to the state building commissioner, or he or she may in his or her discretion, retain a professional engineer or architect for advice and recommendations as to the plans and specifications, safety of design, and compliance with this code

§ 23-27.3-128.7 Fees and costs.

All fees and costs related to the performance of special professional services, testing, inspections, and reporting shall be borne by the owner.

sometimes by just asking the engineer reconsiders and actually analizes the entire load path

PS and Unusual Design IMHO is outside prescriptive path


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## JBI (Jan 26, 2011)

Unless you've changed Chapter 1 of the 2009 Res Code...

_*R105.4 Validity of permit.*__ The issuance or granting of a permit shall not be construed to be a permit for, or an approval of, any violation of any of the provisions of this code or of any other ordinance of the jurisdiction. Permits presuming to give authority to violate or cancel the provisions of this code or other ordinances of the jurisdiction shall not be valid. The issuance of a permit based on construction documents and other data shall not prevent the building official from requiring the correction of errors in the construction documents and other data. The building official is also authorized to prevent occupancy or use of a structure where in violation of this code or of any other ordinances of this jurisdiction._

Backdating the application would be a felony.

That being said...

_*R301.1.3 Engineered design. *__When a building of otherwise conventional construction contains structural elements exceeding the limits of __Section R301__ or otherwise not conforming to this code, these elements shall be designed in accordance with __accepted engineering practice. The extent of such design need only demonstrate compliance of nonconventional elements with other applicable provisions and shall be compatible with the performance of the conventional framed system.__ Engineered design in accordance with the International Building Code is permitted for all buildings and structures, and parts thereof, included in the scope of this code._

Ask for the calculations that support the design


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## Mule (Jan 27, 2011)

Thanks for the replys. I've got two engineers that helped design the Simpson Strong Tie Windbracing calculator coming by today or in the AM. I think it will be very interesting.


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## dhengr (Jan 27, 2011)

Mule:

Engineers and Architects with stamps are not always infallible, and some of them are downright lazy and careless with what they do and spec.  It seems to me that you have some obligation to call out the things that you think don’t meet the code.  I think you also have some obligation to point out the details in question, cite the code sections you think have been violated, and ask for further explanation from the Engineer, and at this stage calcs. and detailed confirmation of meeting your cited code sections.  Remember, in many cases there are several ways to skin the same cat.  I don’t usually expect that I have to supply calcs. for everything I design, particularly when my plans, details, written or verbal explanations are reasonably well thought out.  But, when there is a question, I would sooner work with you as long as we are both being reasonable, than go out of my way to antagonize you.  Maybe you can help the Engineer a bit, by backing him on the need for the extra effort and cost, because without a doubt, the builder came to him and asked that this be done in an hour, without implicating the builder’s original errors.  You’re trying to help fix the builder’s bulls and the costs would have been his if he had done it right in the first place, although maybe a bit lower.

Do let us know what the SIMPSON Engineers have to say when you show them the areas that you are questioning.  Just as we harp about builders and drafters/designers overstepping their experience and engineering abilities, we should expect a reasonable level of quality and attention to detail and the codes in the work done by Engineers and Architects or they should be called out on the lack thereof.  By this stage the file indicates that this has gone back and forth a time or two and your name is on every other interaction, so if it’s wrong you can’t ignore it now, without putting your own reputation and authority in question.


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## Robert Ellenberg (Jan 27, 2011)

Mule,

I am lazy so I am going to go off of memory and not pull out the code book.  But I believe the walls have to be tied down to meet a specified load--I don't think it calls for the same anchoring that the exterior walls call for.  Enough Hiltis close together can probable meet the load.  But whether they do or not, did the engineers submission show it?  To meet the code I don't believe it is sufficient to simply stamp the drawings.  The code says you have to show that it meets the equivalent of the prescriptive code (paraphrasing from memory).  When I have a similar situation, I ask my engineer to do the calculations for the prescriptive requirements and then for how we are proposing to do it and make those calculations part of the permit submission.  I think that is what I have to do to be compliant.


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## Mule (Jan 28, 2011)

Thanks for all of the comments. The Simpson engineer is coming at 10 this AM. Hopefully we will all learn something here.

One interior wall braced section is around 34 feet long and the engineer specifies 6 anchors imbedded 1.7" into the concrete. Well with a 3" anchor and 1 1/2" plate and at least 1/2" allowed for the washer and nut.....that figures up to be 2". I know I'm not very good at math but I think that would only leave 1" to be imbedded into the concrete. Am I missing something? Maybe it's the new math that I'm not used too!

From the commentary...I know....

This section is in the foundation section of the 2009 IRC

2. Interior braced wall plates *shall have anchor bolts spaced*

*at not more than 6 feet (1829 mm) on center *and located

within 12 inches (305 mm) of the ends of each plate section

when supported on a continuous foundation.

And then from Section 600's.....

Braced wall lines are not always exterior walls, as

braced wall line B in Commentary Figure

R602.10.1(1) illustrates. An interior braced wall line

may be required—depending on the size of the

house, the wind speed, or SDC— to supplement the

exterior braced wall lines. Interior braced wall lines

have requirements similar to exterior wall lines in

terms of bracing length, panel location, wall line offsets

*and attachments.*

I am very anxious for the Simpson engineer to consult with me.


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## GHRoberts (Jan 28, 2011)

Mule said:
			
		

> Okay, the engineer has finally submitted the plans for the windbracing.  IF an engineer has designed a structure and the design does not meet the minimum code requirements is that okay?


What do you mean when you say "the minimum code requirements?"

An engineered design most likely will have fewer and smaller bracing elements than the prescriptive code calls for. That does not mean it does not meet the code.

---

Having the Hilti engineers give an opinion does not mean that the design you are confronted with is not sufficient.


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## TimNY (Jan 28, 2011)

Engineers do math.. Did they give you any math?  If they just gave you prints, ask them for the math.  Usually it has some triangles and arrows.. think I saw a teeter-totter thing a few times.

I mean.. they did do the math to calculate what loads they have, then select the straps and fasteners to meet the requirements, right?

If you ask for peer review, the other RDP should be reviewing the math, not doing all the calculations and seeing if what is on the prints meets the design they created.  JMHO.  Otherwise the homeowner is paying for 2 RDP's to design their home.


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## Mule (Jan 28, 2011)

Okay, just finished with the engineers...Houston,,We have a MAJOR problem.

Tim, No.. no calculations just totals of what the end result was soooooo we did a quick run through and found several problems. Now in the submitting engineers defense this is the first structure he has submitted or even designed under the 2009 IRC.

Braced wall lines were not laid out properly. The reason I state that is that there is a bracced wall line running through the middle of the structure with no walls within 48". Also no bracing shown every 25 feet. To tell you the truth there were too many concerns to list them all here.

Remember the 3" anchor...the Simpson engineer said that those size of anchors are only 1/2 the holding power of what the standard achor bolt is so they would probably need to double up on the spacing...the engineer speicified every 6 feet.

My gut feeling was correct!


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## Mule (Jan 28, 2011)

Let me tell you fellers and gals something. If you haven't gotten into this 2009 windbracing thing...it's a whole new ballgame! You better know how to determine if the plans are correct or not cause you just can't believe it's okay just because an engineer designs it! LOTS of problems just as I suspected.


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