# F1 or F2



## BSSTG (Dec 27, 2013)

Greetings all,

I've got plans for a building which will be used for refurbishing and repair of heat exchangers. The architect has it figured on his analysis as an F2. They are going to sprinkle the building so it's not a sticky issue whether it's a F1 or F2. . However, I've never assessed a F occupamcy. In looking at the 09 fire and building codes it's not clear to me how to treat metals which is what is going to be handlled in this facility.

thoughts?

thnaksabunch

BSSTG


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## steveray (Dec 27, 2013)

They do cover metals under both.....I think alot of it depends on the processes involved and packaging or how they are stored...if it is significantly noncombustible.....F2 IMO


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## cda (Dec 27, 2013)

Type of metal

What they are doing with it

Ask them to supply you with all info possible on storage, metal, any and all processes, any chemicals etc


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## steveray (Dec 27, 2013)

It's a magnesium and sodium depot......is that a problem?... 



			
				cda said:
			
		

> Type of metalWhat they are doing with it
> 
> Ask them to supply you with all info possible on storage, metal, any and all processes, any chemicals etc


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## cda (Dec 28, 2013)

Not a real big one unless the mag catches on fire and someone puts water on it

Seek FPE tech report


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## cda (Dec 28, 2013)

Get a full report of what they are doing in depth


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## Insurance Engineer (Dec 28, 2013)

Any machines using hydraulic oil under pressure? Anything over 25-50 gallon individual tank can be a problem.   NFPA 13 considers this an extra hazard Grp 1 occupancy sprinkler .30/2500 if the oil is combustible. Any warehouse space, if so how will the product be stored, any plastic packaging, any plastic pallets. Any combustible metals such as aluminum grinding can result in a combustible dust exposure including dust collection systems.


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## cda (Dec 28, 2013)

Insurance Engineer said:
			
		

> Any machines using hydraulic oil under pressure? Anything over 25-50 gallon individual tank can be a problem.   NFPA 13 considers this an extra hazard Grp 1 occupancy sprinkler .30/2500 if the oil is combustible. Any warehouse space, if so how will the product be stored, any plastic packaging, any plastic pallets. Any combustible metals such as aluminum grinding can result in a combustible dust exposure including dust collection systems.


Just a little mag and sodium


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## mark handler (Dec 28, 2013)

Magnesium*is a highly*flammable*metal, it is easy to ignite when... about 12% of the mass of sodium...


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## Insurance Engineer (Dec 28, 2013)

CDA

Check out FM data sheet 7-98  HYDRAULIC FLUIDS, see below for an overview of the hazard. We find this hazard on a daily bases at many types of occupancies even in low combustible loading machine shops and metal bending operations. As noted below the only way to control the spray oil fire hazard is to shut down the pump for the oil. If not the fire continues to burn, a 40' torch fire is something that gets other combustibles going. Since it is a three dimensional fire the sprinkler protection does little to control the fire. I do not think most building officials understand the hazard and the IBC does not address it.

2.1.1 Ignitable Liquid Hazard Scenario

Hydraulic fluids can create spray fires when accidentally released from the equipment or piping they are contained in. These fires tend to be intense and produce significant heat release rates. A hydraulic spray fire can easily ignite combustibles and severely damage steel building elements or metal equipment if the spray impinges on them. Depending on the flow rate and the size of the leak, sprays can extend up to 40 ft (12.2 m) from the release point. Pressurized sprays producing very small diameter droplets are easily ignited at temperatures well below the normal flash point of the hydraulic fluid. In these cases, the small droplets promote complete combustion of the release and a corresponding short spray distance.

Pressurized oil in hydraulic systems presents a considerable fire hazard, particularly in processes where ignition sources are constantly present, as in plastic forming, die casting, automatic welding and melting, and heat-treating of metal. Escaping hydraulic oil has caused many severe fires, particularly where building contents or construction were combustible, interlocks to automatically shut down pumping systems were not provided, or sprinkler protection was lacking.

When hydraulic oil is released under pressure, the usual result is an atomized spray or mist of oil droplets. The oil spray is ignited readily by hot surfaces, such as heated or molten metal, electric heaters, open flames, or welding arcs. The resulting fire usually is torch-like, with a very high rate of heat release. Spray fires cannot be extinguished by automatic sprinklers, so this high heat release fire will continue until the flow of liquid

is shut down.


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## cda (Dec 28, 2013)

It is neat when it burns but better when the water hits it!!!!


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## cda (Dec 28, 2013)




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## Insurance Engineer (Dec 28, 2013)

Hydraulic oil burning , combustible vs non combustible

http://youtu.be/2VbGTPVyOgU


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