# The Official Electrical Violation Photo Thread



## jar546

I would like this to be an ongoing thread where we not only post photos of NEC violations but also cite the applicable codes so that everyone has an opportunity to learn or dispute the violation.

I will start it off with this photo that is a violation of NEC 334.12(B)(4) as confirmed by 300.5(B) and 300.9


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## chris kennedy

You’re certainly working for the right company to see violations daily.


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## ICE

_210.52(C)(1) Wall Countertop Spaces. A receptacle outlet shall be installed at each wall countertop space that is 300 mm (12 in.) or wider. Receptacle outlets shall be installed so that no point *along the wall line* is more than 600 mm (24 in.) measured horizontally from a receptacle outlet in that space. 
_
And if there is no wall?  What then?






_210.52(E)(5) Receptacle Outlet Location. Receptacle outlets shall be located on or above, but not more than 500 mm (20 in.) above, the countertop. Receptacle outlet assemblies listed for the application shall be permitted to be installed in countertops. Receptacle outlets rendered not readily accessible by appliances fastened in place, appliance garages, sinks, or rangetops as covered in 210.52(C)(1), Exception, or appliances occupying dedicated space shall not be considered as these required outlets. 


Informational Note: See 406.5(E) for requirements for installation of receptacles in countertops. 


Exception to (5): To comply with the conditions specified in (1) or (2), receptacle outlets shall be permitted to be mounted not more than 300 mm (12 in.) below the countertop. Receptacles mounted below a countertop in accordance with this exception shall not be located where the countertop extends more than 150 mm (6 in.) beyond its support base 
_

_(1)  Construction for the physically impaired _
_(2)  On island and peninsular countertops where the countertop is flat across its entire surface (no backsplashes, dividers, etc.) and there are no means to mount a receptacle within 500 mm (20 in.) above the countertop, such as an overhead cabinet _
This one is open to debate.  The first picture is the kitchen side of the counter.  The second picture is the dining room/entertainment room.  So does it qualify as a violation or does it not?


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## ICE

One receptacle can result in a butt load of corrections.






_210.8 
Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel. Ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel shall be provided as required in 210.8(A) through (D). The ground-fault circuit-interrupter shall be installed in a readily accessible location.
210.8(A)(3)
Outdoors.


210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.
(A) 
Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected
210.12(B)
Branch Circuit Extensions or Modifications ó Dwelling Units. In any of the areas specified in 210.12(A), where branch-circuit wiring is modified, replaced, or extended, the branch circuit shall be protected by one of the following:

406.9
(B) Wet Locations.
(1) Receptacles of 15 and 20 Amperes in a Wet Location. Receptacles of 15 and 20 amperes, 125 and 250 volts installed in a wet location shall have an enclosure that is weatherproof whether or not the attachment plug cap is inserted. An outlet box hood installed for this purpose shall be listed and shall be identified as "extra duty." All 15- and 20-ampere, 125- and 250-volt non-locking-type receptacles shall be listed weather-resistant type. 

406.12 Tamper-Resistant Receptacles

(A) Dwelling Units. In all areas specified in 210.52, all non-locking-type 125-volt, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles shall be listed tamper-resistant receptacles._


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## jar546

It looked like a beautiful installation, until embossed in the metal of the transformer were the words "Do Not Install in Attics"

Therefore, NEC 110.3(B) which governs the use of equipment in accordance with its labeling and instructions


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## ICE

_110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use of Equipment.
(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling._

Note that the bottom half of the clamp has been turned in the right direction for re-bar application.  It might be that the clamp is too large for a 3# re-bar.


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## ICE

jar546 said:


> It looked like a beautiful installation, until embossed in the metal of the transformer were the words "Do Not Install in Attics"
> 
> Therefore, NEC 110.3(B) which governs the use of equipment in accordance with its labeling and instructions
> 
> View attachment 3202


And fittings for the cable?


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## jar546

ICE said:


> And fittings for the cable?



You can't see them but they were the black button NM style which are listed for that use.


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## jar546

ICE said:


> _110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use of Equipment.
> (B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling._
> 
> Note that the bottom half of the clamp has been turned in the right direction for re-bar application.



Should I assume that clamp was not listed for rebar, not listed for direct burial, not listed for concrete encasement or a combination of all 3?  Some are only listed for pipe and not rebar.


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## ICE

jar546 said:


> Should I assume that clamp was not listed for rebar, not listed for direct burial, not listed for concrete encasement or a combination of all 3?  Some are only listed for pipe and not rebar.



It is just installed wrong.


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## jar546

ICE said:


> It is just installed wrong.



Oh that too,  LOL


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## steveray

ICE....AFCI for outdoor receptacles?....not a room?


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## steveray

Jeff, maybe plainly state that the interior of outdoor conduits is a wet locations well....?  I think it helps to know what the actual problem is as well as the code section...



jar546 said:


> I would like this to be an ongoing thread where we not only post photos of NEC violations but also cite the applicable codes so that everyone has an opportunity to learn or dispute the violation.
> 
> I will start it off with this photo that is a violation of NEC 334.12(B)(4) as confirmed by 300.5(B) and 300.9
> 
> View attachment 3197


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## ICE

steveray said:


> ICE....AFCI for outdoor receptacles?....not a room?


It is not a home run.....it is a circuit extension.  That’s almost always the case.


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## steveray

Ahhhh...got it....


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## jar546

Just how many violations do you see here?  I will list 1 violation, see if you can list more.
First, this is a 3 prong receptacle fed by a 2 wire extension cord cable.
The first violation I will list is:
NEC 400.8 under Uses Not Permitted, NEC 400.8(1) _"As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure"


_


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## jar546

Cite the violation here.  You can either use the IRC electrical section or the NEC for your answer.


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## Builder Bob

Depth of box below surface of gypsum - E3906.5
Don't know intent of box - weight support requirement - minimum E 2905.6.2
Metallic box must be grounded - E 3905.2 - See hint of green wire, cannot see details for grounding.


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## Rick18071

This is a demo and rebuilding on existing foundation. This panel is live.
Openings to be closed NEC312.5 (A) and a few other things.


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## linnrg

hey at least they left a jobsite toilet


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## Pcinspector1

Rick, are those AFCI's?


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## jar546

This was found in a medical facility when the wall was opened up to extend a nurses station.
NEC Violations are:

110.12 because the work was not performed in a workmanlike manner
300.12 because some of the cables are not continuous between boxes and some are still live inside the closed wall.
300.13(B) because they removed devices, buried it in a wall and lost continuity of the grounded conductor (once the box was opened)
300.15 because the MC cable does not terminate in a box
300.15(A) because the cover was buried in a wall and not accessible

I am sure you can see even more....  What else is there?


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## Norcal

"110.12 because the work was not performed in a workmanlike manner" I was always under the impression that was unenforceable because it is subjective.   But burying boxes in a wall is still wrong.


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## ADAguy

Keep them coming, this is a great addition to the site.


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## steveray

jar546 said:


> This was found in a medical facility when the wall was opened up to extend a nurses station.
> NEC Violations are:
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure you can see even more....  What else is there?
> 
> View attachment 3291



517 for health care wiring?


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## Pcinspector1

jar546 said:


> This was found in a medical facility when the wall was opened up to extend a *nurses station.*NEC Violations are:



steveray, IMO, the nurses station would not require the same wiring as for the patient care areas, I ran into that one before.


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## Pcinspector1

steveray, you might be correct, we don't know what's on the other side of the wall, could be a patient care room? 

Does the receptacle box have a green bonding wire?

Not electrical but...Does anybody enforce steel studs being installed upside down? The first pre-cut hole should be 11-inches off the base track.


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## TheCommish

why should the first hole be 11 inches off the track?


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## jar546

On the other side of that wall is an xray room


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## Pcinspector1

TheCommish said:


> why should the first hole be 11 inches off the track?



The stud manufactures install in structures would dictates. Was told by a steel stud manufactures rep in a seminar, My response was "you kidding!"
He said it makes the stud stronger. 

Studs sold in the west coast market may have the punched holes at 24". Also if all the holes line up, diagonal x-bracing will line up inside the wall if used. In addition the sparky likes it when all the punched holes line up.


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## jar546

Here is a classic we normally have to look closely to see but in this case it is plain as day!  This is a main service panel so no issues with neutrals and grounds.

NEC 210.4(B)
_Disconnecting Means. Each multiwire branch circuit shall
be provided with a means that will simultaneously disconnect
all ungrounded conductors at the point where the branch
circuit originates._

Basically they need a handle tie on these two breakers or replace it with a double pole breaker.


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## jar546

Rick18071 said:


> View attachment 3273
> View attachment 3274
> 
> This is a demo and rebuilding on existing foundation. This panel is live.
> Openings to be closed NEC312.5 (A) and a few other things.



E3404.7
E3404.8
E3404.9


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## jar546

_250.12 Clean Surfaces. Nonconductive coatings (such as
paint, lacquer, and enamel) on equipment to be grounded
shall be removed from threads and other contact surfaces to
ensure good electrical continuity or be connected by means of
fittings designed so as to make such removal unnecessary._


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## fatboy

Do you have an issue with this? I would be OK with it...........


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## ICE

jar546 said:


> _250.12 Clean Surfaces. Nonconductive coatings (such as
> paint, lacquer, and enamel) on equipment to be grounded
> shall be removed from threads and other contact surfaces to
> ensure good electrical continuity or be connected by means of
> fittings designed so as to make such removal unnecessary._
> 
> View attachment 4018


The lug is attached with the wrong screw.  The lug is barely in contact with the surface.  Scratching paint is not the same as removal.  The paint shall be removed for the entire area of contact.


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## fatboy

ICE said:


> The lug is attached with the wrong screw.  The lug is barely in contact with the surface.  Scratching paint is not the same as removal.  The paint shall be removed for the entire area of contact.



Looks like a nut and bolt.........you would require complete removal of finishes....sparky has to have a grinder on hand?


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## jar546

fatboy said:


> Do you have an issue with this? I would be OK with it...........



Yes I do have an issue with it because it is not even close to being compliant.  This is poorly executed for a service that requires parallel 300MCM for an equipment ground.


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## jar546

fatboy said:


> Looks like a nut and bolt.........you would require complete removal of finishes....sparky has to have a grinder on hand?



It is attached to a painted assembly, and not a bare aluminum lug to a bare aluminum bar or buss.  All electricians I know carry a grinder.  As an electrician a grinder is of of the more used tools in my truck.


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## chris kennedy

jar546 said:


> All electricians I know carry a grinder.  As an electrician a grinder is of of the more used tools in my truck.



Yup

And 2 different wire wheels and touch up paint. As an installer if one of my guys did what is pictured, he would be taking that apart and he would get an education in how easy it is to do it right.


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## jar546

chris kennedy said:


> Yup
> 
> And 2 different wire wheels and touch up paint. As an installer if one of my guys did what is pictured, he would be taking that apart and he would get an education in how easy it is to do it right.



Come to think of it, I am trying to figure out what Norm doesn't do with a grinder....  LOL


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## chris kennedy

jar546 said:


> Come to think of it, I am trying to figure out what Norm doesn't do with a grinder....  LOL



I watched him slice cheese for his sandwich with his grinder today.


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## jar546

chris kennedy said:


> I watched him slice cheese for his sandwich with his grinder today.



Yeah, that sounds about right.  I think he goes to sleep with his grinder tucked under his pillow.  LOL


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## fatboy

Duly noted....


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## jar546

How many ways is this wrong?  Let us count the ways.....
This is a sub-panel in a commercial office 120/208 3ph fed by a 277/480 to 120/208 transformer mounted above it.

With just one blink I see 3 violations that are obvious.  There may be more.


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## Rick18071

1. grounded conductor and equipment grounding conductor bonded

2. grounded conductor marked wrong

3. equipment grounding conductor marked wrong


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## jar546

Rick18071 said:


> 1. grounded conductor and equipment grounding conductor bonded
> 
> 2. grounded conductor marked wrong
> 
> 3. equipment grounding conductor marked wrong



1) Yes, all 3 phases are incorrectly marked for this 120/208 3 phase system.  

2) There is nothing wrong with the grounded conductor as it is identified with white tape on the end which is allowed for the size wire in question.

3)  The equipment grounding conductor is insulated green which is correct.

This is a sub-panel because it is fed by a transformer that has the frame and neutral bonded.  They have the grounds and neutrals going to the same neutral bar and there is no bonding of the EGC's to the panelboard enclosure.  Also, what about a disconnect on the secondary conductors from the transformer?  They appear to go directly to the lugs of the panel buss.............


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## jar546

Here is a temp service that failed today.  Guess the reasons why:


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## Rick18071

I wish i knew how to enlarge the photos but I can see:
1. hot branch wires are yellow
2. main breaker is not rated for service
3. main breaker handles not connected
4. main breaker not screwed in
4. Don't see any ground rod
5. bottom conduit needs a slip joint
6. meter maybe hooked up backwards
7. Main bonding lug missing


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## Pcinspector1

Do the POCO's request the top lugs or the bottom lugs on a service? Does it matter? Is it done different in other areas?

Does it require two GE's?
Is the bonding wire missing on the lock nut?


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## steveray

GEC goes to the meter, not to the "service"...No MBJ...


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## ICE

110.34 Work Space and Guarding.
(A) Working Space. Except as elsewhere required or permitted in this Code, equipment likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized shall have clear working space in the direction of access to live parts of the electrical equipment and shall be not less than specified in Table 110.34(A).




This is a service upgrade.  I was told that Edison spotted the meter here.  The indications are that the previous cabinet was right where this one is now.


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## ICE

110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use of Equipment.
(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.
110.12 Mechanical Execution of Work. Electrical equipment shall be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner.


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## jar546

There are a few problems with this "perimeter bond" inspection for the perimeter surface around this pool:

1st, the perimeter bond under this method (they will not be pouring concrete or using rebar) must be 4-6" below the surface and between 18-24" away from the edge of the water.  They called for an inspection way too soon as they are not finished backfilling yet and it will end up being way too low below the surface in violation of NEC 680.26(B)(2)(a)(5)
2nd By using this method under NEC 680.26(B)(2)(a) "alternate means" they will need a bare ground wire and not the insulated wire they have installed.  That would be a violation of NEC 680.26(B)(2)(a)(1)


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## jar546

Just another fine example of the lack of statewide, competency-based licensing of contractors in PA.  How many violations do you see?


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## ICE

El. service upgrade:




The branch circuits are in a conduit that is 5" above the roof.

The old panel enclosure has become a j-box:




There are many things wrong.




And one thing that's nearly correct:




Knowing that there is a deration factor for 24 current carrying conductors in a raceway which shoots this down I ask this question: "What is the ambient temperature that must be applied?"


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## jar546

Why you need to remove the bottom drawer of the range during final inspection:  what violation would this be?


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## ICE




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## jar546

That pic makes no sense to me whatsoever as there is probably a rod missing and trying to figure out the purpose of the conduit and romex connectors on the ends of the threaded coupler and why the rod is not all the way in the ground (if it is 8').  Expensive clamp, however.


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## jar546

250.97 did not apply because of the PVC used for the feeder, otherwise it would have.


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## ICE

jar546 said:


> That pic makes no sense to me whatsoever as there is probably a rod missing and trying to figure out the purpose of the conduit and romex connectors on the ends of the threaded coupler and why the rod is not all the way in the ground (if it is 8').  Expensive clamp, however.



Here's the other 10' rod>


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## jar546

I am just going to assume that the purpose of the conduit is the reduction of copper theft?


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## e hilton

jar546 said:


> Why you need to remove the bottom drawer of the range during final inspection:  what violation would this be?
> ]


Wrong size cover plate.  
Is the sharp bend in the power cord a problem?


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## ICE

jar546 said:


> I am just going to assume that the purpose of the conduit is the reduction of copper theft?


That or aesthetics.


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## jar546

Another violation of the NEC.  What is it?


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## TheCommish

The carpenter says incorrect connector?


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## jar546

TheCommish said:


> The carpenter says incorrect connector?



Find a cord that is listed and labeled to be used with a water heater of a specific wattage.
Find a water heater such as this one that specifies a flexible cord that can be used with it.


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## Norcal

That is a 125/250V rated dryer cord, non-grounding, the use of a flat cord is hokey at best, but the water heater being cord & plug connected is not kosher made worse by the plug being mounted upside down, noted by the way the right angle plug is hanging. A bad install all around.


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## TheCommish

The electrons do not through what conductor they  flow


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## e hilton

jar546 said:


> Find a water heater such as this one that specifies a flexible cord that can be used with it.


I checked the website for State Water Heaters, looked at a random installation guide for a residential electric heater.   It says (paraphrase) install the electric service in compliance with local codes.  Follow nfpa 70 and nec if no local codes.  In stall wiring in an approved conduit if required by local code.  
That last item implies that a flexible power cord is acceptable to the mfgr.


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## Rick18071

Norcal said:


> That is a 125/250V rated dryer cord, non-grounding, the use of a flat cord is hokey at best, but the water heater being cord & plug connected is not kosher made worse by the plug being mounted upside down, noted by the way the right angle plug is hanging. A bad install all around.



please provide the section number in the NEC that requires the respectable to be in a certain direction.


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## jar546

Rick18071 said:


> please provide the section number in the NEC that requires the respectable to be in a certain direction.



I believe it is his opinion that it is a bad install method and not a code issue.


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## e hilton

jar546 said:


> I believe it is his opinion that it is a bad install method and not a code issue.


I suspect you are right, but some inspectors demand the ground prong be up.


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## jar546

e hilton said:


> I suspect you are right, but some inspectors demand the ground prong be up.



Yeah, they can demand it all they want but it's not a code requirement.  I hate those kind of guys. Do as I say even if it's not the code.  Power trip and ego driven.


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## ICE

jar546 said:


> Yeah, they can demand it all they want but it's not a code requirement.  I hate those kind of guys. Do as I say even if it's not the code.  Power trip and ego driven.



Jerks? ....Maybe .... Might just be zealots.  Shirley you are familiar with that.

250.124 Equipment Grounding Conductor Continuity.
(A) Separable Connections. Separable connections such as those provided in drawout equipment or attachment plugs and mating connectors and receptacles shall provide for first-make, last-break of the equipment grounding conductor. First-make, last-break shall not be required where interlocked equipment, plugs, receptacles, and connectors preclude energization without grounding continuity.


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## steveray

That just means that the ground prong is longer....No?

I think it is a good idea as I crossed a tape rule across the energized prongs once....But I don't require it...


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## Rick18071

e hilton said:


> I suspect you are right, but some inspectors demand the ground prong be up.



Every mobile or modular home I ever saw always had the ground down. I wonder if those inspectors make them turn them around. 
I guess the same inspectors fail a double receptacle if it is in a horizontal position too.


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## Pcinspector1

I have been asked the question before "Do you require the ground up or down?" I prefer them with the ground down cuz every home I've lived in has them this way, but if they are installed the other way, I thinks, they all should be the same.

As far as code, the NEC handbook illustrations show most of the receptacles with the ground down but the Exhibit 406.3 of receptacles and plugs shows the ground on the upper side on a 125-volt, 15-amp receptacle. 

So, can the dryer plug be upside down or sideways?

As far as that WH install with cord and plug, that looks like a violation not having the correct disconnect unless that meets the WH manufacture requirements. Doubt it!

There are some small squat size WH's that have a built-in cord and plug. (Rheem makes one).


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## jar546

This was part of a rough inspection.  What do you see wrong?


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## steveray

Green screw? 12 and 14 in the same box? NM at top not in box? Grounds not made up?


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## jar546

steveray said:


> Green screw? 12 and 14 in the same box? NM at top not in box? Grounds not made up?


We can start with NEC 314.17(B) and continue from there........


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## Rick18071

Romex to be secured within 12" of box. Can't tell what is happening at the arrow.


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## Paul Sweet

Wouldn't it be easier to say what you see right?


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## Builder Bob

box fill, nm securement (zip tie to stud) if at all, grounds, insulation, extension of existing circuit - 14 gauge wire may require overcurrent device  to be changed out to 15 amp, possible recess of box (look flush to stud) , excessive wire protruding from box - (generally limit to 6 inches ROT), 

4 x 4 junction box, might be using a plaster ring for the devices to be installed, but not on site






The sky is cloudy with a chance of rain and I want to go fishing..... that I would say is the biggest issue.


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## steveray

So are you saying the cable is not "secured" to the box with the plastic clamps? Because it looks like there is more that 1/4" of jacket inside.....


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## ADAguy

On another note, is the draping of the plug wire across the top of the WH a concern? 
Would have been better if the outlet was to the side of the WH and accessible, no?


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## Rick18071

steveray said:


> So are you saying the cable is not "secured" to the box with the plastic clamps? Because it looks like there is more that 1/4" of jacket inside.....



I should have said the romex is to be supported within 12" of the box


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## Builder Bob

White 12/2 w/ ground not terminated in box - Unsecured

Also, wire nut missing off of unused circuits - still a safety concern


What did we miss Jeff????


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## cda

So on another forum, not building code related,,,,

This was posted::

Statement was found after a fire in the building::


Looks like it is wired per code??? not sure the problem


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## steveray

Neutral and ground under the same screw....easy fix!.....


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## Rick18071

This must be the new type of panels that have invisible covers.


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## TheCommish

I forgot to order the tub, they needed power


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## jar546

One of the best pics yet!


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## jar546

Sometimes you just gotta wonder.  There is more than 1 violation here.


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## e hilton

Stupidly long loop on the flex between boxes.


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## steveray

Lately we have been getting A/C swaps where they leave in the old oversized OCPD....


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## jar546

steveray said:


> Lately we have been getting A/C swaps where they leave in the old oversized OCPD....



Very common.


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## ICE

_110.3(B)
Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.
_
I am not familiar with the listing or installation instructions for a cable clamp.  I usually assume that two flat, stacked Romex per clamp is allowed.  They fit in the space that is provided for the cable.  I often find more than two.  Do I always write a correction?  No I do not.  With some crews, the less work that they do, the better the outcome.  Sometimes the clamp has plenty of space and a correction would seem picayunish.

This example crossed a line with seven cables in one clamp.  The refrain given is usually, "The clamp is large enough."  And it is....large enough for a large cable.  Just one....large round cable....can't stack round cable.




The real danger with this practice is not so much that cables may be loose.  In the grand scheme of mistakes a loose cable at the top of a recessed service enclosure is not such a big deal.  But look at the clamp screw against the cable.  Now that's a correction.


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## ADAguy

jar546 said:


> This was found in a medical facility when the wall was opened up to extend a nurses station.
> NEC Violations are:
> 
> 110.12 because the work was not performed in a workmanlike manner
> 300.12 because some of the cables are not continuous between boxes and some are still live inside the closed wall.
> 300.13(B) because they removed devices, buried it in a wall and lost continuity of the grounded conductor (once the box was opened)
> 300.15 because the MC cable does not terminate in a box
> 300.15(A) because the cover was buried in a wall and not accessible
> 
> I am sure you can see even more....  What else is there?
> 
> View attachment 3291



Thought copper and aluminium don't mix?


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## ICE

This made it through rough inspection and all the way to a final inspection.  Well as O.B. said, "It's never too late to start over."


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## Rick18071

The same thing happened to me. I did the final but a different inspector did the rough. My 3rd party inspection company that I was working for at the time admitted the mistake and paid to have the panel moved.


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## JPohling

ICE said:


> This made it through rough inspection and all the way to a final inspection.  Well as O.B. said, "It's never too late to start over."


Ice,  was it on the permitted plans in this location?


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## ICE

JPohling said:


> Ice,  was it on the permitted plans in this location?


The sub-panel is not on the plans and it was not listed on the electrical permit. A sub-panel was installed on the exterior.  It was semi-flush with no mounting flange.  An inspector wrote a correction to install a flange kit.  There is no flange kit for that particular panel.   The panel was brought inside the closet.  Then the framing, insulation and drywall were approved and I went for the final inspection.  Based on the contractor's reaction I think that he knew that this is wrong.

Panels are not always shown on a set of plans.  Sub-panels are an afterthought because of the AFCI requirement.  Late in the game they discover that they need arc fault breakers and there is no room in the main panel so a sub-panel is the answer.


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## JPohling

Well that is a perfect storm situation that leaves unfortunate issues like this.


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## ADAguy

ADAguy said:


> Thought copper and aluminium don't mix?



Possibly an in house install without a permit?


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## Norcal

e hilton said:


> I suspect you are right, but some inspectors demand the ground prong be up.



There is no "ground prong" on those devices, on those 3-wire dryer devices the "L" is a neutral, and is a non grounding 125/250V device, and in my opinion is only OK assuming it's a 30A, is on existing clothes dryers installed prior to the adoption of the 1996 NEC. I have disliked the thought of grounding a appliance to the neutral for a long time & was pleased when it was prohibited in new installations with the adoption of the '96 NEC. A 50A 125/250V is quite popular for welders, which IMO is also wrong. A reply to a old post.


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