# Old lumber, new joist hangars



## jar546 (Jan 30, 2012)

The biggest problem I have with this is that it is not fully nailed.  I am not even sure that Simpson, USP or whoever even makes a hangar for older, rough sawn lumber without a special order.


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## steveray (Jan 30, 2012)

I have used some full 2" hangers from simpson....but that was a while back in an old mill town where there was alot of older structures fit for remodeling....


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## kyhowey (Jan 30, 2012)

If the block was longer and nailed to the existing joist, I would have no problems with it.


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## jar546 (Jan 30, 2012)

kyhowey said:
			
		

> If the block was longer and nailed to the existing joist, I would have no problems with it.


Absolutely.  I asked that they sister the joist for about 12" and secure it.


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## brudgers (Jan 30, 2012)

steveray said:
			
		

> I have used some full 2" hangers from simpson....but that was a while back in an old mill town where there was alot of older structures fit for remodeling....


  Block needs to be 2x2 minimum for a structural application. Straps, or other connectors could be applied to deal with applicable spreading or uplift forces.


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## Keystone (Jan 30, 2012)

Agreed, adding a sister joist would appear practical.

Burdgers - "Block needs to be 2x2 minimum for structural application." For my own knowledge, what source would be used to make that determination, IRC/IBC, MII, RDP?


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## Pcinspector1 (Jan 30, 2012)

Wrong hanger used!

Simpson makes a 2" wide hanger, U210R for rough sawn lumber, the hanger can be used on 2x10, 2x12 and 2x14's

If you sister it,  2x would need to come back out of the hanger a bit more, distance? Not sure!

pc1


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## Pcinspector1 (Jan 30, 2012)

What's up with all those air chutes, I think'll get into that business? "There's gold in them there hills!"

pc1


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## brudgers (Jan 30, 2012)

keystone said:
			
		

> agreed, adding a sister joist would appear practical.  Burdgers - "block needs to be 2x2 minimum for structural application." for my own knowledge, what source would be used to make that determination, irc/ibc, mii, rdp?


  2305.1.2.1 [ibc 2006]


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## GCtony (Feb 1, 2012)

Can't tell for sure but those nails don't look like the correct nails.

Before the days of Simpson (proud sponsor of the IRC)  We used to rip 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" (or larger) legders, notch and toe nail the joist.  Does code still allow this practice?


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## Pcinspector1 (Feb 1, 2012)

Any nails in that triple header on this side?

pc1


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## steveray (Feb 1, 2012)

R502.6.2 Joist framing.

Joists framing into the side of a wood girder shall be supported by approved framing anchors or on ledger strips not less than nominal 2 inches by 2 inches (51 mm by 51 mm)....Or in other words...yes!



			
				GCtony said:
			
		

> Can't tell for sure but those nails don't look like the correct nails.Before the days of Simpson (proud sponsor of the IRC)  We used to rip 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" (or larger) legders, notch and toe nail the joist.  Does code still allow this practice?


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## DRP (Feb 1, 2012)

GCtony said:
			
		

> Can't tell for sure but those nails don't look like the correct nails.Before the days of Simpson (proud sponsor of the IRC)  We used to rip 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" (or larger) legders, notch and toe nail the joist.  Does code still allow this practice?


Yes you can but that has its' own set of problems. The "re-entrant corner", the corner at the inside edge of the joist notch often enough ends up with a horizontal split where the notch causes the shear stress to concentrate. The ledger is designed and thought of as having the nails in shear. A 2x2 ledger fails by rolling off the girder rather than sliding down in shear. The nails are actually in something between shear and withdrawal.

If it's a cathedral ceiling, air chutes in every bay, all the way.


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## jar546 (Feb 1, 2012)

If the hangars shown in the photo were needed for uplift too, there is a big problem.


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## Big Mac (Feb 16, 2012)

A significant issue here is that the weight of the "floor beam" or what ever is beinig supported is not at the edges of the hanger where the weight was intended to be.  It appears that the weight is all carried on the on the right hand side of the hanger with one edge at least 1.5" fromt he edge.  That is not the way hangers are intended to be used.  Even if the centered the beam and put fillers on each side, that is not the way the hanger was designed to carry the loads.  Not a good idea.


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## KZQuixote (Feb 17, 2012)

GCtony said:
			
		

> Can't tell for sure but those nails don't look like the correct nails.Before the days of Simpson (proud sponsor of the IRC)  We used to rip 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" (or larger) legders, notch and toe nail the joist.  Does code still allow this practice?


Sorry Tony,

The compendium of obfuscation has opined that a grade stamped piece of lumber cannot be ripped. The result is that if'n you need a 2X2 you need to buy a 2X2. However, if'n you do purchase bonafide  2x2's you can nail them on any schedule you choose to support any joist you need to. No Hangers required.

Bill


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