# Dollars as Decorations



## LGreene (Feb 21, 2012)

I posted this photo on my blog of the bar in the hotel we're currently vacationing in.  The bartender told me that there were more than 10,000 bills and it's a small room - maybe 1,000 square feet.  Several people have commented that the flammability of the dollar bills is a code issue.  What say you?

http://idighardware.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Hotel-Bar-a.jpg


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## Frank (Feb 21, 2012)

Definately a fire code violation as even fire retardant treated decorative hangings are limited in extent.


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## cda (Feb 21, 2012)

807.1 General requirements. In occupancies in Groups A, E, I and R-1 and dormitories in Group R-2, curtains, draperies, hangings and other decorative materials suspended from walls or ceilings shall meet the flame propagation performance criteria of NFPA 701 in accordance with Section 806.2 or be noncombustible.

If it is in a place of assembly and burns, not good


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## Msradell (Feb 21, 2012)

At least it's easy to pick up a couple of extra dollars if you're short when paying your tab!


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## Builder Bob (Feb 22, 2012)

I bet they have enough to pay any fine and still continue doing business as patrons replace the money..... Sad thought but true.


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## Mac (Feb 22, 2012)

When did the No Name Pub build a hotel?


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## oldman57 (Feb 22, 2012)

McGuire Irish pub in Pensacola claims to have over one million dollars hanging from their ceiling and walls. The building has a fire sprinkler system and dollars bills are treated yearly. Also I been told that each year they must take down and count the bills for tax purposes (IRS)


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## FM William Burns (Feb 22, 2012)

From another perspective and equally as good FPC:

NFPA 1



> *20.1.2.1 *Combustible scenery of cloth, film, vegetation (dry), and similar materials shall comply with one of the following:
> (1)They shall meet the flame propagation performance criteria contained in NFPA 701, _Standard Methods of Fire Tests for Flame Propagation of Textiles and Films_.
> 
> (2)They shall exhibit a heat release rate not exceeding 100 kW when tested in accordance with NFPA 289, _Standard Method of Fire Test for Individual Fuel Packages_, using the 20 kW ignition source.
> ...


or as Cda said from the IFC


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## JMORRISON (Feb 22, 2012)

Here's what a guy in WA state did with his http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/01/diner-owner-don/


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## Papio Bldg Dept (Feb 22, 2012)

We have a local brew pub that brings in a magician whose performance includes a trick where he gets audience signed playing cards to stick to the 16-20' high ceilings.  It is nothing in comparison to the OP photo and other references, but they are accumulating, and in some areas you can no longer see the ceiling.  Maybe I should contact Bicycle and get an MSDS report.


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## cda (Feb 22, 2012)

click on "main bar" in the virtural tour

http://mcguiresirishpub.com/mcguires_pcola/

http://www.pensacolacelebritychefs.com/blogspot/golden-spoon-003.jpg

http://www.viewpoints.com/images/review/2007/214/11/1186073954-46262_full.jpg

so I wonder how many fire sprinkler heads will open if there is a fire??


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## mtlogcabin (Feb 22, 2012)

None of that paper money in this state. We still use silver dollars

http://50000silverdollar.com/


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## TheCommish (Feb 22, 2012)

walk quickly to the door, do not renter, then

1. pray for the code offical that needs to cite the owner  for the violation. Watch for the political fall out and news story about the mean code enforcment offical who is doing their sworn duty, follwed by public outcry of the over regulating state of business and code requiremsntments.

senero 2.  code offical does nothing then bad edvent happens, folowed by public outcry of the dangerous situation they were not protected from, followed by lawsuits and a bad day for all.

see tag lin below


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## TheCommish (Feb 22, 2012)

walk quickly to the door, do not renter, then

1. pray for the code offical that needs to cite the owner  for the violation. Watch for the political fall out and news story about the mean code enforcment offical who is doing their sworn duty, follwed by public outcry of the over regulating state of business and code requiremsntments.

senero 2.  code offical does nothing then bad edvent happens, folowed by public outcry of the dangerous situation they were not protected from, followed by lawsuits and a bad day for all.

see tag lin below


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## LGreene (Feb 23, 2012)

So here's part 2 of this question.  This hotel is in a fairly small town (year-round population 6,500 but lots of tourists) on Cape Cod.  The bar is right off the lobby and there are a bunch of photos in the video tour showing the dollar bills all over it - it's definitely not a secret.  I can't imagine that the local authorities don't know about it.  On a related note...all of the latches have been removed from the cross-corridor doors so there is nothing separating the bar/lobby area from the guest rooms except doors on magnetic holders with push/pulls.  The rooms are not sprinklered - I don't know about the bar.

On the lower level of the hotel there are at least 3 large function rooms (>100 occupants each) with inswinging doors, and the main corridor door between these rooms and the exit is also inswinging (the exterior door at the end of the corridor is outswinging).  There was a science show for the kids in one of the rooms and there were 100 chairs set up with a large area for the kids to sit on the floor and almost half the room left over.  There were 2 exits from this room to the corridor, with inswinging doors.  They obviously didn't have panic hardware since they were inswinging.  The corridor was not wide enough to allow them to be outswinging and meet the encroachment requirements, unless alcoves were created for each door opening.

Here's the question (finally):  Assuming that periodic fire inspections are being done on this facility, these issues have either gone unnoticed or are purposely being allowed.  If a concerned citizen brings the issues to the attention of the local fire marshal, is that concerned citizen thought to be a pain in the @ss, a nitpicker, a killjoy, or someone who cares about life safety and might be helping to avoid a tragedy?

Maybe I need to raise the family vacation budget.


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## TheCommish (Feb 23, 2012)

Ah, whether to **** off the locals.

Massachusetts has a state law requiring ever liquor serving establishment to have an annual inspection by the Fire Department and the Building Official, and then the posting of a jointly signed certificate.

You could send this information up to the State Fire Marshal officeand they could help the local jurisdiction with education and enforcement as warranted. Tim Rodrique Timothee.Rodrique@state.ma.us would be a good contact person.

Some towns have difficulty with the political ramifications of enforcement of new rules and long standing traditions, also owners have problems with new rules. Part of the law that required the joint certificate cam form the West Warwick tragedy, and now in Ma. Required liquor serving establishments with occupancy of over 100 people to be fire sprinkled retroactively by a date now long passed.

In my community it was a great problem because the owner would claim they never had 100 people in them but when the occupancy was calculated it was well over 100. This went on all over the state, some closed some complied some made changes to reduce their occupancy.


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## cda (Feb 23, 2012)

this sounds similar to the hotel with the jump platforms, may have been there for awhile.

Now the dollar bills are another story, that is a code item that can be enforced.

but, lilke you say,  """""Assuming that periodic fire inspections are being done on this facility"""""


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## cda (Feb 23, 2012)

form the state fire marshal :::

Furnishings, Decorations, & Scenery

All fabrics and films used for decorative purposes, all draperies and curtains, and similar furnishings shall be shall be flame resistant as demonstrated by testing in accordance with NFPA 701, Standard Methods of Fire Tests for Flame Propagation of Textiles and Films.

The State Fire Marshal may impose controls on the quantity and arrangement of combustible contents in assembly occupancies to provide an adequate level of safety to life from fire. Prior to introducing combustible contents and highly flammable contents contact the State Fire Marshal’s Office.

Maine requires that exposed foamed plastic materials and unprotected materials containing foamed plastic used for decorative purposes or stage scenery shall have a heat release rate not exceeding 100 kW where tested in accordance with UL 1975, Standard for Fire Tests for Foamed Plastics Used for Decorative Purposes. A certificate from the manufacturer and/or third party testing agency will be acceptable as long as the material can be specifically identified by the certificate and sample.

http://maine.gov/dps/fmo/inspections/assembly.html

he is a sharp dresser:::

http://maine.gov/dps/fmo/documents/FMONwsltrV2Is11_002.pdf

this is interesting also:::

39.Existing Assembly occupancies that are required to have fire sprinkler protection according to section 13.3.5.1 in the 2006 & 2009 editions of the NFPA 101 Life Safety Code may be granted permission by the Office of State Fire Marshal to use the Maine Life Safety standard (or Hydro-Pro standard), or where MUBEC does not recognize that standard, the NFPA 13D standard with a 3-head calculation using heads within their listing may be used.  The system must have a fire alarm and a fire department connection if more than 20 fire sprinkler heads would be installed. [This item is to provide a cost-effective life-safety alternative for a retroactive fire sprinkler requirement].

http://www.maine.gov/dps/fmo/sprinklers/laws/tech_policy.html


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## peach (Feb 26, 2012)

sounds like the bills are really the least of their code issues.  Since it's an existing facility, it's a fire department/annual fire inspection issues - not a building code issue anymore.


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## Oldfieldguy (Feb 26, 2012)

When I look at Section 803.1, it clearly exempts materials with a thickness less than 0.036 inches applied directly to the surface of walls and ceilings. I happen to have a set of micrometers for ammo reloading and measured the thickness of all the paper money in my wallet and none of them were thicker than 0.006 inches. I would conclude that what appears to be a interior finish violation is in fact permitted because the thickness of the material exempts it from the requirements in IFC Chapter 8.


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## cda (Feb 26, 2012)

Old

They do not hit the second requirement applied directly to a surface, as in wall paper


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## Oldfieldguy (Feb 26, 2012)

CDA

I disagree. If the thickness is less than 0.036 inches then one is exempt. I don't particularly like the installation but the bills are attached to the ceiling and they have a thickness < 0.036 inches based on my measurements. It's not pretty but it complies in my mind.


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## cda (Feb 26, 2012)

Not in this particular picture:::

http://idighardware.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Hotel-Bar-a.jpg


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## IJHumberson (Feb 27, 2012)

I agree with cda, the dollar bills shown in the picture are not "applied" to the ceiling - they are hanging from it.


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## mark handler (Feb 27, 2012)

Multiply the 0.036 by the number of bills and you may exceed the allowed amount.


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## High Desert (Feb 29, 2012)

Here's what they should do with all that money.

http://www.katu.com/living/kids-pets-family/Kells-140745153.html


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## rnapier (Mar 1, 2012)

Years ago  on Bourbon Street in New Orleans I was drinking at this great bar with a terrific band when I noticed that the dollars bills pinned to the wall where over burnt bills that covered one wall and half way down the adjoining bar. Apparently there was a fire that quickly covered thirty or fourty feet of wall burning up these bills. The bar never removed the partialy burnt bills but just pinned new bill over them. I quess some people never learn.


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## Big Mac (Mar 1, 2012)

Oldfieldguy:  I don't know where you consider God's Country to be, but if those bills catch fire, it's going to look more like hell.


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## LGreene (Mar 1, 2012)

rnapier said:
			
		

> Years ago  on Bourbon Street in New Orleans I was drinking at this great bar with a terrific band when I noticed that the dollars bills pinned to the wall where over burnt bills that covered one wall and half way down the adjoining bar. Apparently there was a fire that quickly covered thirty or fourty feet of wall burning up these bills. The bar never removed the partialy burnt bills but just pinned new bill over them. I quess some people never learn.


Wow - that's very scary!

I just decided to risk being called a party-pooper and contact the local fire marshal.  I've been called worse.


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## FM William Burns (Mar 1, 2012)

> I've been called worse


That line...... kindly forms behind me


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## LGreene (Mar 1, 2012)

I heard back from the chief and he cc'd the fire inspectors.  I mentioned the dollars and the inswinging doors in my email, and I tried to be tactful.  He said that they take all reports seriously, but this isn't a new situation so it doesn't seem like it should have taken a report from a tourist to get the problems noticed.  We don't use the IFC in Massachusetts so that may be the reason it hasn't been addressed.  It's a good thing we weren't planning to go back to that resort...they would have given us the room directly above the arcade.  Oh wait...they already did that.


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## cda (Mar 1, 2012)

(2) Decorative Material. Decorative materials shall conform to 527 CMR 21.00 and 780 CMR.

http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/source/mass/cmr/cmrtext/527CMR10.pdf

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/dfs/osfm/cmr/cmr-secured/527021.pdf

Disclaimer:::

If this is the current adopted code


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## cda (Mar 1, 2012)

LG

When your out touring, you can check to see if there is a violation

http://ftp.resource.org/codes.gov/


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## LGreene (Mar 2, 2012)

Thanks Charles!  I'm not about to get out my Tirrell burner and test the contents of my wallet (all the plastic would melt into a gooey mess), but Section 21 definitely applies to these "decorations."  I highly doubt that the facility is treating the dollars with some sort of fire-retardant.

This morning the kids were talking about the science show we saw at the hotel and my 7YO son said that he really liked the hotel.  I broke it to him that we couldn't go back there because I blew the whistle on them.  Something new to hold over their heads..."Behave or I'll report your favorite places to the fire marshal and we will no longer be welcome there!"


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## gbhammer (Mar 2, 2012)

Lori, that is awesome. Can't wait to pull that one on my 6 yr. old daughter. LOL oh man


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## cda (Mar 2, 2012)

LG

I am banned in a few states, but not like you "working on all fifty!!""


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## north star (Mar 2, 2012)

*= =*

Door Guru Lori,

You could send anonymous or personalized e-mails to various

newspapers, t.v. & radio stations with the applicable code sections

and ask why there is a known fire hazard allowed to exist &

continue?....Maybe, and this is a BIG maybe, ...the media hyenas

might investigate it and have a story or two on it......Bad

publicity is a worse type of buzzkill.

*From "The Daily Fish Wrap:" Local restaurant with fire*

*hazards threaten hundreds!....Story at 6 & 10.*

FWIW, I agree that those hanging fire hazards are only one

drunk away from a fire event.

Also, I agree with educating your kids now as to discerning

"right" from "wrong"......These dollar bills are definitely "wrong!"

One last thing... One person *CAN* make a definite difference!

You are that person!



*= =*


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## LGreene (Mar 2, 2012)

Thank you North Star.  I am hoping I won't have to go to the media with any of my "issues."  I think (hope) most of them are due to misunderstandings or lack of maintenance and a little attention from the fire inspectors will take care of it.  There have been several news reports lately about the slumlords' apartment buildings in Boston's Chinatown, and that was NOT ME!  

Be careful Charles, I just might come to Texas!!


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## TheCommish (Mar 2, 2012)

cda said:
			
		

> LGWhen your out touring, you can check to see if there is a violation
> 
> http://ftp.resource.org/codes.gov/


cda      that is one great resource, who maintains it?


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## cda (Mar 2, 2012)

I do not know, I think I stole it from a previous post


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## TheCommish (Mar 11, 2012)

lGreen, how goes this issue?


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## LGreene (Mar 11, 2012)

TheCommish said:
			
		

> lGreen, how goes this issue?


The email from the chief cc'd the fire inspectors, but I haven't heard anything since.  They may not get back to me about how it was resolved, especially if they decide to allow things to remain as-is.  Unless there's something in the local paper about how some P.I.T.A. made the fire marshal tell the bar to get rid of the money, I may have to go down there and check it out to see what the outcome was.

It's almost summer...I'll be heading to your neck of the woods soon!


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## mtlogcabin (May 21, 2012)

Found this on the ceiling of the local indoor skate boarding facility. Not sure if all this fiberglass and resin on the ceiling is good or not


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## mtlogcabin (May 21, 2012)




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## LGreene (May 21, 2012)

I don't know if it's just me but I can't see your photos.


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## globe trekker (May 22, 2012)

I can't either!   Nothing is viewable!   Help us out mtlogcabin.


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## mtlogcabin (May 22, 2012)

View attachment 1345

	

		
			
		

		
	
Hope this works

View attachment 578


View attachment 578


/monthly_2012_05/DSCN2937.jpg.3feeb9b8259be7bb45b1848baf7e3279.jpg


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## cda (May 22, 2012)

Applied directly!!!

Take a little more heat to get it going


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## LARMGUY (May 22, 2012)

mtlogcabin said:
			
		

> Found this on the ceiling of the local indoor skate boarding facility. Not sure if all this fiberglass and resin on the ceiling is good or not


Truly tis amazing what a firefighter might encounter due to somebody's sense of style.  :agree


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## Papio Bldg Dept (May 22, 2012)

Great pic mt.  My youthful memories remind me that they need quit a bit of help to burn, and I do not recommend being on one while performing a dolphin flip.  The smoke spread index might be a different story though.


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